# Funny Towing Video



## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Not to start another brand war......just think it is a good video.

Towing a Cougar AND a Jeep.

Steve

Click here to see Video


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Link didn't work for me.









Mark


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Yeah....the original site I was on doesn't work right now either.

I'll check it later and see if it works.......if not, I'll delete it.

Steve

OK, I tried it again, and the link works, it just takes a while for the video to load and start. Give it time and it should work.


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

It worked for me. Something wrong with the sound on my computer but here is what I saw. The D'max has the gooseneck with the U-haul on it. He is chasing the other truck (Dodge Cummins) towing the Cougar and jeep while he monitors the D'max. Trying to prove that the D'max overheats while chasing the other truck. It did overheat.

Anyhow they have had some problems with the 04 1/2 year to '05 D'max. Many of them run hot, many overheat. There was maybe a 100 page thread on Dieselplace exploring it. Some guy studied the problem hard, applied some rigourous methodology and fabricated a fix for the overheating and put it up for sale on the site as it worked real good. Now for the funnying thing he is no longer on the site. Guess he didn't pay the bill for being a sponsor! WHAT A CIRCUS THAT PLACE IS!

As for the problem I am kind of middle of the road. GM didn't really step up to fix it easily but then again most of the trucks on that site are all chipped and mod'ed. Many of the trucks also overheated pulling the Grapevine @ max load, AC on and 100 degree heat. Kind of like asking for it in my book. A little bit of guilt on the part of GM does show through as you have the '06 LLY and LBZ which I have not heard of one single overheating problem.

I learned one lesson from it all. I will never, never, ever buy a used diesel for fear of how somebody hacked it. If you want to get maximum value (longevity ) out of your used purchase buying un mod'ed would likely give a greater certainty of achieving that.

Steve--- a real good video.

Mike C


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## MattS (Oct 15, 2006)

All I could think was, 'pull over into the right lane!'


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## redmonaz (Jul 24, 2006)

The video looks like a weather report for awhile, then once the towing video started I got sound. It is a long video, I think I'll wait til I'm not at work to watch the rest.







Driving and filming at the same time? 
Don


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Ok, lets see now, a goose neck, with a U-haul truck on it......vs. a Cougar 5th wheel with a Jeep behind it. Not an apples to apples comparison if you ask me, number one, and number too, I don't really think GM intended a 3/4 ton pick up to tow another truck...

And to be honest, I have a hard time watching this wondering how he is able to maintain all of his attention on the road.....at 72 mph, towing a large load, and all he can do is complain that he can't go as fast as the other truck.....how fast do you want to go towing another truck??









Not saying there are not problems with the LLY, but there are problems with the 6.0 PSD, and Dodge has it's problems too. But do you think that maybe some of the problems here might have been operator induced?

Tim


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Got it. "Why can't I keep up with that old Dodge?" was the best thing I heard.

Mark


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Worked just fine for me... The guy is very very flusterated! lol His dmax cant keep up with an older cummins because his dmax is overheating. 260* will kill his engine he should just slow down. Even if the truck has a trait of overheateing, he should slow down to get the temps down.

It sure is funny people load there pu to the max allowable and expect to run speed limits up hills. I dont get it....

I drive a semi and even with all the technology, we have to combine road speed, gear selection, and rpms to keep our engines cool while climbing. I have a 2001 kw with 700,000 miles on the original engine. I climb hills everyday here in Colorado. I never allow the engine to go over 210* But if I pick the wrong gear/rpm I can make all the buzzers go off easilly. You dont worry about road speed, you protect your engine whatever it takes.

My kawasaki has a overheating trait also. When climbing it gets so hot it will boil the coolant and throw it out.

The fix is EvansNPG coolant... 20 bucks a gallon.



hatcityhosehauler said:


> Ok, lets see now, a goose neck, with a U-haul truck on it......vs. a Cougar 5th wheel with a Jeep behind it. Not an apples to apples comparison if you ask me, number one, and number too, I don't really think GM intended a 3/4 ton pick up to tow another truck...
> 
> And to be honest, I have a hard time watching this wondering how he is able to maintain all of his attention on the road.....at 72 mph, towing a large load, and all he can do is complain that he can't go as fast as the other truck.....how fast do you want to go towing another truck??
> 
> ...


I agree, people buy any vehicle and expect it to tow anything. Then if there are problems they blame the manufacturer. Know wonder the big 3 are in trouble.

People just have no common sense anymore.....

Carey


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## shake1969 (Sep 21, 2004)

Not only did his DuraMax overheat, he didn't have even one buddy, wife or girlfirend to run the video while he drove. Poor guy, nobody likes him.

Did you notice his A/C was set on 64? Mighty cold setting even on the hottest day. He must've been wearing a parka.

Bright spot was that he could've always off-loaded the UHaul and finished his trip, if the DuraMax shut down. It wouldn't have caught the Dodge, but I bet it wouldn't have overheated either.


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

I agree with everything thats been said here.........as I stated in post #1, didn't want to start any wars.

I thought the funniest thing is how this guy is ranting on and on, driving 70+ MPH, and videotaping at the same time.

Steve


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## freefaller25 (Mar 19, 2006)

I have a hard time saying anything positive about the thinking and methods here. IMO a low grade and unsafe test. It does appear that the engine safety systems protect the rig from damage and kept the guy from destroying anything and hurting anyone or himself.

What is it that the manufacturer advertises? HP / torque under controlled conditions. For there to be a liability problem here I think he would need some dyno numbers or otherwise.

Anyone know how his case went in court, or did it?

An interesting video site for sure.

Tony


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I have a question? If you put a max load such as this guy and then dont account for the huge frontal area of the uhaul he is then way over weight. My guess is the frontal area of the uhaul could add maybe 5000-6000 lbs to the gcw. This would make that older cummins overheat, let alone the dmax. This would be like trying to tow a sail boat with the sails out and sideways... lol The only reason semis can tow something like this is our engines make 2000 or more ft lbs of torque. No little diesel can do this..

Carey


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## jlbabb28 (Feb 27, 2006)

[quote name='huntr70' date='Jan 12 2007, 04:02 AM' post='178514']
Not to start another brand war......just think it is a good video.

Towing a Cougar AND a Jeep.

Steve



> Kind of like calling my mom fat and not wanting me to get mad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

I also noticed immediately that this guy is driving well below the posted speed limit in the LEFT lane. And plenty of cars had to pass him on the right.

But worse yet, he keeps showing us that the transmission temp and the engine temp are high, the alarm is sounding, and his driver information center is telling him "High Coolant Temperature." Yet he continues to try and catch up with the guy ahead of him - on a long upgrade - all the while lamenting that he cannot catch him.

Well, duh!









Does he have more money than brains?


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

I have to agree that the test was not totally fair, I would very much doubt that the old Dodge was pulling near the weight that the GMC was pulling. But there is also a difference between a Cummins and a Duramax, the Cummins was derived from a true truck engine while the D'max was derived originally from a car engine. I know that they have have done a lot with the D'max but the Cummins, expecially the older ones are way over built as compared to the D'max. But then again, the Dodge tranny sure isn't up to the long haul either.

On the other hand, like everyone has said, the driver needed to look out for his unit as well. I would love to be able to pull my 5er at 80 mph on cruise but I am learning that that is not the best way to drive. This driver was so distracted that it wouldn't have surprised me of him crashing as well as burning. We all need to remember that when we are pulling a RV, that is our job, not taking movies or messing with a bunch of stuff, including the radio, GPS unit, etc.


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Lmbevard said:


> I have to agree that the test was not totally fair


 Totally agree.......I think the point of this guy was to get GM to do something about overheating the engines.

That in itself should say something.

I only posted this to show how some people just don't use their brains.

If it makes anyone uncomfortable that it is a Chevy overheating while trying to pass a Dodge, then pretend it is a Ford passing a Nissan......or whatever.

It just so happened that the video was posted on one of the Cummins forums I participate in.

I think the guy makes more of an a_ _ out of himself than prove a point to GM...









Steve


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

NJMikeC said:


> I learned one lesson from it all. I will never, never, ever buy a used diesel for fear of how somebody hacked it. If you want to get maximum value (longevity ) out of your used purchase buying un mod'ed would likely give a greater certainty of achieving that.
> 
> Mike C


I agree 1,000% on this. An off-lease car?? Sure thing.......good buy!!







But buying a used p/u, especially down here in S. GA is a big risk. Now, so many dealers are getting them from auction, and even a carfax report on them is not a sure thing. I looked up carfax report on one and it only showed where it had ONE, count it, ONE oil change at a certified dealership, and the truck had 60,000 miles on it! It was a fleet truck, diesel, used to do hauling out of Texas. 
IF you are looking at used, ask who the previous owner was, and ask for maintenance records. If it's a local trade, contact the person.
Darlene


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Jeff,

I have to say you had the funniest responce, "Your mom is fat, don't get mad". That is an all time best on this site if you ask me!

Mike


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## lafpd04 (Jan 4, 2007)

Unbelievable video. Thats why my next truck will be a Ford diesel.


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## Lazybonz(aka Bill) (Sep 23, 2006)

I guess it proves what I have always said...









STUPID is forever!








You can break anything if you want to bad enough.








I am not the least bit brand loyal.
Usually it is not the vehicle but the idiot driving it.









Bill


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## jlbabb28 (Feb 27, 2006)

NJMikeC said:


> Jeff,
> 
> I have to say you had the funniest responce, "Your mom is fat, don't get mad". That is an all time best on this site if you ask me!
> 
> Mike


Well thanks! I thought so too becasue we all know how these threds can get out of hand. All in good fun.

Jeff


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2007)

Interesting video,







The driver was putting out more torque than the motor









Scott


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## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

Everyone is missing the real problem. The trailer the guy was towing is 10K empty, the uhaul has to be 8-10K empty. that means he's pulling 18-20K up hill with the uhaul backwwards and the AC on.

My LBZ is only rated for 14.2K and the lly is 50 less HP so I would say it's not rated as high. so if your towing 5-8K more than the towing capacity you are going to overheat.

The cougar 5'er is probably 9K and the jeep is another 4K so it's 13K compared to 18-20K

Not a fair comparison

Sorry Steve....


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

At least he taped his own video to prove why his warranty is now void.

Agree on the weight of what he is pulling and the fact the U haul was backwards.

He should have gotten a summons for driving in the left lane with out passing

For all he knew the cummins could have been chipped or any other enhancement.

The only thing this video proved is Stupid is as Stupid does.

Can only wonder how he abuses any vehicle,


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## Lady Di (Oct 28, 2005)

I just wondered, "What's the point?"


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## Crawfish (Sep 14, 2005)

I agree with what everyone here has said, but there is one thing you are missing. Did you notice the web site he put in the caption below the video? "CoolMyDuramax.com". I think this video was staged just to sell his RAD MOD V2 cooling system at $930 a pop.









Leon


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

Ohhhhh where to begin with this one









First he is right there is a flaw with the truck:: After all the bells,whistles,chimes,warning lights, gauges,laptops,messages center warnings,a/c shuting down,and laptop this IDIOT still pushes the truck out of its power range.
The problem with the truck is after all that the air bag didn't inflate to knock this moron out.

I give the Duramax/Allison high marks for withstanding all that abuse.

Almost 4000 rpm in a diesel news flash dummy thats bad way out of the power band

Tranny at 260 bad bad bad

Temp gauge pinned not good

Trying to do over 70 towing in the left lane holding a camcorder and talking on a cell phone while watching a laptop this guy is just a road hazard.

The only lawsuit that should happen is GM suing him.

I had a minor issue this summer after I put the body lift on my Avalanche.I put dual 15" electric fans on it but they couldn't keep the 8.1 cool sitting in traffic while towing. Did I wait until the dash sounded like a slot machine no I pulled over for a little while. After I put the factory fan back on and it never happened again. If my gauges move anymore than normal I baby it not floor it.

This moron does not deserve that truck......


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## happycamper (Jul 26, 2005)

Thanks for sharing Steve.
What should you do when you are that hot? Pull over?

Jim


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

happycamper said:


> Thanks for sharing Steve.
> What should you do when you are that hot? Pull over?
> 
> Jim


Slow down and drop a gear if you have a manual. If you have an auto, slow down... Basically get your foot out of the throttle.. If it doesnt start to cool down, pull over, there is probably something wrong.

Carey


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Happy Camper,

First take off the AC, then slow down. Run the heater a little, that should bring the engine temp down . Try to cool it while travelling at 50mph or so . That keeps a good flow of air across the radiator.

If that doesn't cool things down enough then you have to pull over before you hurt something.

Mike C


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## MattS (Oct 15, 2006)

Lmbevard said:


> I have to agree that the test was not totally fair


I think to make it fair, that Dmax driver couldn't be involved....


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

I think the whole thing is a fake, all staged, not the most trustworthy site. I have to take anything I see on the Internet with a grain of salt.


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

huntr70 said:


> I have to agree that the test was not totally fair


 Totally agree.......I think the point of this guy was to get GM to do something about overheating the engines.

That in itself should say something.

I only posted this to show how some people just don't use their brains.

If it makes anyone uncomfortable that it is a Chevy overheating while trying to pass a Dodge, then pretend it is a Ford passing a Nissan......or whatever.

It just so happened that the video was posted on one of the Cummins forums I participate in.

I think the guy makes more of an a_ _ out of himself than prove a point to GM...









Steve
[/quote]


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## gerrym (Oct 23, 2006)

Would have liked a trooper to have caught up to him.....running a video camera running well below the limit in the hot lane. Couple of tickets there. Um another thing- he sued using this video as evidence? Overheating light running non-stop and he kept trying to catch the hummin Cummins?


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

Dunno about a 2004; a 2005 DMax 2500HD CCLB is maxed at 14,200; and (in my case w/my f** a$$) 2200-2300 pin weight.

That HD equip trailer has got to be 10-12K by itself. I dunno about the U-haul, but he is plainly overweight. Having the UHaul on there backwards isn't helping a thing. And who knows what's in the U-Haul? It could be full of vials of mercury, for all we know. The guy is a kook with a financial interest in the dog and pony show.

It is true that SOME DMax's have something of a cooling problem. GM replaced my 05 airbox and filter assembly with those from an 06, and reflashed the ECU. So far, no problem.

Sluggo


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## redmonaz (Jul 24, 2006)

To quoate Bugs Bunny, "What a maroon!" I wonder what the guy in the Dodge was thinking, "I gotta out run this idiot before he kills us all!"









Some great quotes, "I can't beleive it went into limp mode", I can't beleive it stayed out of limp mode for that long! "That's dangerous on the freeway." Not as dangerous as you are buddy!

Thanks for posting the link, I drive a Duramax and still found it entertaining.

Should we send this guy the link to this thread? Then he could find out what people really think of his driving? I'm just kidding, let this guy stay on the other side.


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## RizFam (Feb 25, 2006)

Very entertaining, all I can say is WOW








Thanks Steve Great Video









Tami


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## happycamper (Jul 26, 2005)

Thanks for advice Colorado and NJMike!
Not sure what my issue was in the Hills of NY. It climbed higher than I wanted it too.

I normally ride along @ 190-200F even without a load. May get it checked in the off season.
It is up in miles (80 plus) though









At least I don't operat a video camera, talk on the cell phone, and play on my computer while doing 70 F in the passing lane when I run this hot!









Jim


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## Herkdoctor (Dec 27, 2006)

I agree this guy should have been more concerned with safety than catching up with the Dodge. But then again how smart could he be trying to catch a Cummins with a Durmax (sorry could resist)

Scott


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

Lmbevard said:


> I have to agree that the test was not totally fair, I would very much doubt that the old Dodge was pulling near the weight that the GMC was pulling. But there is also a difference between a Cummins and a Duramax, the Cummins was derived from a true truck engine while the D'max was derived originally from a car engine. I know that they have have done a lot with the D'max but the Cummins, expecially the older ones are way over built as compared to the D'max. But then again, the Dodge tranny sure isn't up to the long haul either.


I don't think so, guy. The DMax was a clean sheet, was it not?

Sluggo


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

The Duramax was developed by Isuzu Diesel, (the only successful division of that company I might add) from the ground up. You are confusing the Dmax with it's predecessor, the 6.5 TD, but is was also a misconception that the 6.5 was developed from a gasoline engine. I believe this engine was developed with Detroit Diesel, but don't quote me on that.

The only gasoline converted to diesel block that I know of used by GM was the Oldsmobile Diesel offered in the early to mid '80's, which was reportedly built on a 350 lineage.

Again, that is all hearsay, and if someone knows where I can find documentation on all this history, I'd be interested.

Everyone credits Dodge and Mopar for the Cummins, but all Dodge did is buy an engine that was already proven in assorted commercial applications. Both the Ford and GM engines were developed solely for their current purposes, Ford with International, and GM with Isuzu.

Tim


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## Bill H (Nov 25, 2006)

Video made me feel like I was driving my Hemi agian.....







Actually, It NEVER overheated... Just couldn't get out of it's own way while towing. I got smoked by an Avalanche pulling a 29'....

This Video just proves one thing... There's no such thing as a stupid question.... JUST STUPID PEOPLE!!!


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## Camping Fan (Dec 18, 2005)

Bill H said:


> Video made me feel like I was driving my Hemi agian.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well yeah!














Especially if it was a 2500 with the 8.1 V8 - "Whoops, better set the cruise control (is that trailer still back there?)"


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

Nice video Steve
apples and oranges like Tim said
And why would you back a truck onto a trailer and have a big flat surface catching all the wind









Don


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

hatcityhosehauler said:


> The Duramax was developed by Isuzu Diesel, (the only successful division of that company I might add) from the ground up. You are confusing the Dmax with it's predecessor, the 6.5 TD, but is was also a misconception that the 6.5 was developed from a gasoline engine. I believe this engine was developed with Detroit Diesel, but don't quote me on that.
> 
> The only gasoline converted to diesel block that I know of used by GM was the Oldsmobile Diesel offered in the early to mid '80's, which was reportedly built on a 350 lineage.
> 
> ...


Yep the early GM diesel was made out of an Olds 350. It was droped in '83 or'84.. It used a slightly reinforced block, forged crank, and heavier rods. Many guys have used those forged cranks/rods in super stock factory drag cars since they made those. They are a fairly hot commodity these days.

And yes again, the 6.2/6.5 was a venture between Detroit Diesel and GM. It was never associated with a gas engine. Actually it was a fairly good design, just was under cammed, under ported, and under turbo'd.

The Ford/IH diesel is a design from the the heavier v-8 line of IH diesels, I beleive a model IH dt466. And the Cummins a design of the Cummins 6bt model. Both of those have been changed to better fit the needs of light duty pu's.

You know your stuff pretty well!

Carey


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

> ...I beleive a model IH dt466...


They share many of the same designs, like the hi-pressure oil actuated fuel rail, but the DT466 is an in-line 6 cylinder. The 466 was also licensed to Detroit Diesel for sale as the Detroit Series 40. We have 4 of them at work.

Tim


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

hatcityhosehauler said:


> > ...I beleive a model IH dt466...
> 
> 
> They share many of the same designs, like the hi-pressure oil actuated fuel rail, but the DT466 is an in-line 6 cylinder. The 466 was also licensed to Detroit Diesel for sale as the Detroit Series 40. We have 4 of them at work.
> ...


There ya go, I didnt think that was the right model number, I used to know it but I guess it has been too long ago to remember.

Thanks, Carey


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

Camping Fan said:


> Video made me feel like I was driving my Hemi agian.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well yeah!














Especially if it was a 2500 with the 8.1 V8 - "Whoops, better set the cruise control (is that trailer still back there?)"






















[/quote]
I was thinking the same thing







Wouldn't be the first and will not be the last









John


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Tim,

You got your facts straight, as usual.

The D'max was designed from the ground up by Isuzu. I believe Isuzu is actually #1 in sales in US in the the "upto 50K GVWR" trucks. At one point Isuzu purchased the Opel name from Germany and co-sold their cars with Buick . Isuzu was\is either wholly or partly owned by GM.

Also the Cummins , like the Powerstroke is only a small to medium engine and neither share any lineage with the over the road Cummins\International engines. I believe all three engines are exclusive arrangements for pickups only. When Cummins first came out they were superior as they were direct injection diesels. The Powerstroke and Detroit Diesels used a pre-combustion chamber. That has all changed now.

Remember when Chrysler went under and was given a federal loan? One stipulation of the loan insisted upon by Ford and GM was that Dodge could never again make a truck larger then a 1 Ton. The did that because the Government had bought a lot of Dodge trucks. It is my understanding that the old "Duece and 1/2's" of the war years were all Dodge.

The old GM diesel (not Detroit Diesel) was a gas conversion but it wasn't a 350 it was an Oldsmobile big block, as they needed a lot longer stroke for the Diesel. Displacement was 5.7L or 350 though.

I once worked on all of that stuff and even remember the first Buick Turbo V6. What a piece of junk but not as bad as the Cadillac V8-6-4. Of all of them I liked the Olds diesel the best although I didn't really stick around in that industry to see how long they lasted.


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

>>>It is my understanding that the old "Duece and 1/2's" of the war years were all Dodge.

Which war? WWII were built by numerous constructors, including REO, International, Ford, Chrysler, GM, Studebaker. About everyone but Nash.

Korea, most were REO's. Many were still in use in the RVN era. The newest, sexiest deuce and a half in RVN was the Multi-Fuel. It had an engine designed to run on most anything you could force into the tank. Not that there was a lot of it laying around, but it would run on peanut oil. Or diesel. Or gas, but man that was some ugly noise in there. I think those engines were made by Continental; no idea who fabricated the rest of it. Might have been AM General.

The world's absolute worst diesel was the itty-bitty, 265 CI Olds used in mid-size passenger cars. At the slightest strain, such as running, they smoked like a '61 Peterbilt. To see one going up I-70 west of Denver, you would think you were seeing a coal-fired steamer pulling a train.

Isuzu is a very successful outfit. Just not in selling small vehicles in the US. I had two old Troopers, reliable as rocks and about as fast, but they would go anywhere. I also had a KS-22, a 3.9 liter straight four, five speed, 12k chassis with a 14' box on it. In 160,000 miles, I adjusted the valves a couple of times, replaced the clutch once (thanks to an inept operator), and replaced the exhaust. Even the batteries were original when it was sold at the age of seven years.

Sluggo


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Sluggo,

Agree during the war years many folks made a particular companies design. Kind of like the Sherman tank. I read somewhere that the original design of the Deuce and 1/2 was Chrysler. The Sherman tank was GM. What is funny is that Chrysler's design for tank treads was better and the Russians used it on their T-34 tanks.


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

> Also the Cummins , like the Powerstroke is only a small to medium engine and neither share any lineage with the over the road Cummins\International engines. I believe all three engines are exclusive arrangements for pickups only.


Ok, I'll defer to you on this one, but I was under the impression that the Cummin's B series engine, which the the engine in Dodge Trucks was used in other applications also. Maybe my info is off.

Tim


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## MattS (Oct 15, 2006)

hatcityhosehauler said:


> > Also the Cummins , like the Powerstroke is only a small to medium engine and neither share any lineage with the over the road Cummins\International engines. I believe all three engines are exclusive arrangements for pickups only.
> 
> 
> Ok, I'll defer to you on this one, but I was under the impression that the Cummin's B series engine, which the the engine in Dodge Trucks was used in other applications also. Maybe my info is off.
> ...


Tim, you are not mistaken. The Cummins engine used in pickups is used in buses, off-road equipment, boats, and generators. The original engine was used in off-road equipment starting in 1982. The quote I believe refers to the Class 8 engines in tractor-trailers. They have lined cylinders for easier rebuilds.

This video sure has people up in arms. You either believe it or not. The guy states he weighted the vehicle in the beginning. You choose to accept it or not. It shows you a picture of a truck loaded up but not moving down the highway. You choose to accept that is the same truck with the same load or not. That guy could've had that truck modified with too much power. That would cause high exhaust gas temps and high coolant temps. You accept that it is a stock truck or not. That guy has a problem with that truck he is driving. It doesn't mean ALL trucks like his are junk. Everyone builds a lemon. That truck might be one.

I'm a Cummins guy this time. I tried all 3 when I was buying this one. The Cummins had the torque at the lowest RPM's (1400 RPM). That is what I wanted with a 6-speed. Everyone benefits from competition. I'm glad all 3 have a quality product.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

NJMikeC said:


> Tim,
> 
> You got your facts straight, as usual.
> 
> ...


The Olds 350 is the same block as an olds 455(all the same). All Olds blocks from 350 up are considered big blocks, or wide blocks. GM used the olds 350 because the olds block had the best characteristics to be used in diesel format. LINK

INFO :The Oldsmobile 5.7 liter engines experienced a wide gamut of malfunctions. One of the common failures was with crankshaft bearings. This was frequently attributed to owners and maintainers running the engines on SG rated oil, that is intended for gasoline engines, versus CD oil, which is intended for Diesel engines. This prompted GM to introduce the DX block that had larger oil passages and a higher volume oil pump, so that the engines could tolerate low-grade oils. These engines also suffered from blown head gaskets, warped heads, and bad injector pumps, and injectors. The beginnings of these problems can be attributed to poor quality diesel fuel which may have contained water or other contaminants. These materials would damage the inside of the injector pump, and when eventually clog injectors. If water was injected into the engine, it could cause a "hydrolock" which would blow head gaskets, and bend valves, because water cannot be compressed. This was the reason GM equipped later cars with water detectors, and double filtration systems on their vehicles.

When a hapless owner took the vehicle in for repair, the mechanic would resurface the head, making it thinner, install a new head gasket, and then re-use the old, stretched out fasteners. It would not be but a few thousand miles, and the vehicle was in the shop again for head gasket failure, or a warped head. The frustrated owner would frequently just get the shop to convert the engine to gasoline after a few repeated failures like this. As a side note, these diesel engine blocks were frequently sought after by hot-rodders to build high-performance gasoline engines out of because of their extra heavy duty components would withstand extreme horsepower.

The Cummins used in dodge came from the very common b series cummins widely used in many other formats.LINK

The ford diesel made by IH is designed on the IH vt diesel block design. The vt was put into use in 1980 as a 9.0 liter v-8 diesel. Ford came to Ih in '81 and made a deal with Ih to design a diesel for there pu's. IH then took the 9.0 v8 diesel and redesigned it to a 6.9. The 6.9 was intro'd in 1983.

From '83 to '94 the 6.9 and 7.3 was only used in Ford vehicles. Might have been a contract legality.
In '95 the Power Stroke was intro'd.. Ih also used this same engine, its model number was a t444e. This was used in other vehicles than Fords. 
The next redesign was the 6.0 which Ih also uses as a vt365 in other vehicles.
The new 6.4 used in Fords in '08 is a MaxxForce 7 which will be used in other vehicles.
The Ih vehicle that uses the same engine is the CXT and MXT.

There was a deal between ih and ford to make a v-6 diesel vt275 4.5l. Since that was based on the problem 6.0 engine ford decided to make there own v6 diesel named AJDV6/PSADT17. This is a european design called a LION V6 used in Jag, puegot, rover, and citroen. Ford had to pay ih 70 million because of the renigue on the contract.
Ford europe has also designed a v8 called the LIONV8. it is 4.4 liters and has much speculation that it will be intro'd into the suv,1/2 Ford line.
This info can be backed up here. LINK

The venture bewteen IH and Ford is getting bumpy. The 6.0 has had over 50 million in warranty claims. I bet its either make it or break it on the new 6.4. I would bet within a few years we may see a change in the maker of Ford used diesels.

The Duramax is a joint venture between gm and isuzu. The company group is called DMAX out of Ohio. You guys need to quit thinking that a duramax is all isuzu. Its a joint company named DMAX in america. Gm still holds the cards, they are the controlling stock holder.
here is a link.LINK

More info on the Duramax. LINK

There is a lil history for ya..

Carey


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Thanks for the info Carey. I don't know why I didn't think of the IH VT series. I knew that. The other stuff was interesting too. Especially the clearing up of the GM/Isuzu relationship.

Tim


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Carey,

Good find. I had read (mistakenly) in a diesel magazine that all the big 3 truck engines were exclusive. Maybe they included everything such as the engine control modules, etc. Again good find.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Your welcome guys.. Our plant was closed today so I had nothin to do. Its just too cold to do much but play on the net.

I have read all this before, just couldnt remember it all. So I thought I'd put a leg out and try to back up all the talk. I took speed reading in college, so i read tons and tons of stuff. 
Not meaning to hurt anyones feelings..

Carey


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Non hurt here.

Tim


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## kjdj (Sep 14, 2004)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> I have a question? If you put a max load such as this guy and then dont account for the huge frontal area of the uhaul he is then way over weight. My guess is the frontal area of the uhaul could add maybe 5000-6000 lbs to the gcw. This would make that older cummins overheat, let alone the dmax. This would be like trying to tow a sail boat with the sails out and sideways... lol The only reason semis can tow something like this is our engines make 2000 or more ft lbs of torque. No little diesel can do this..
> 
> Carey


I agree,
Frontal area plays a much bigger role at 60mph than weight.
I bet things would be different if the U-Haul was placed on the trailer front forward and 3 ft lower to the ground.

I would say the Cougar was maybe 11' high. The U-Haul is prob. 11 ft tall add 3ft setting on the trailer.

An additional 15 to 20 sq/ft of wind load is huge.

Not defending GM but this guys test set-up just stinks.

Kevin.


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

Lmbevard said:


> there is also a difference between a Cummins and a Duramax, the Cummins was derived from a true truck engine while the D'max was derived originally from a car engine.


That is not correct. The Duramax is made by Izuzu and was designed as a diesel from the start. Before the Duramax, GM had several diesels in pickups that weren't up to the competition, including one engine in the eighties that started out as an Olsdmobile gas engine.

But concerning the guy punishing his engine mile after mile with overheat alarms going off, he's not too bright. If he was a GM engineer doing destructive testing, it would make sense. Not only should he not win a lawsuit, but GM should cancel any warranty that was on that engine. Owners have an obligation to operate a vehicle properly, not to abuse it and blame the manufacturer.

Also, here is the approximate horsepower needed to climb an (assumed) 4% grade at 70 mph with the U-Haul being 13 feet in the air and GCWR of 22000 lbs. This is from an Excel spreadsheet that was et up to make these calculations. 55 horsepower is lost through drivetrain friction yielding 425 gross HP needed 
Horsepower estimator 
Enter the following information: 
Maximum Height (in inches)	156	Enter the height of the tallest vehicle
Maximum Width (in inches)	96	Enter the width of the widest vehicle
Minimum Ground Clearance (in inches)	14	Enter the ground clearance for the vehicle that sits the closest to the ground
Desired speed (mph)	70	
Anticipated headwind (mph)	0	Note: Tailwind does not help like headwinds hurt.
Anticipated grade (steepness) of the road	4%	For level ground, enter 0
Total combined weight (in pounds, tow vehicle and trailer) 22,000 
Elevation (in feet) - 
Elevation factor	0%	0% for turbo-charged or super-charged diesel engines, 2% for gas and non turbo-charged or super-charged diesel engines.
DO NOT ENTER BELOW THIS LINE 
Horsepower needed to combat: 
Rolling resistance	58.85	(Speed x combined weight x (6.75 + (0.074 x Speed))) / 375,000
Air resistance	147.20	(Frontal area x Speed x Speed x Speed x drag coefficient) / 375
Grade resistance	164.27	(Speed x %Grade x combined weight) / 37,500
Elevation	0.00	(Elevation / 1000) * Elevation factor
425.86	Total horsepower required.

Bill


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

This is from the Diesel Truck Resource.com website that I am on....



> THE REAL STORY:
> 
> I have watched the whole video, and read all of TxChristophers posts on "The Diesel Spot" forums. He has a 2004 LLY Duramax that had the famous (to those who know) overheating problem common to 2004.5 and 2005 "LLY" Duramax trucks.
> 
> ...


Steve


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

cookie9933 said:


> there is also a difference between a Cummins and a Duramax, the Cummins was derived from a true truck engine while the D'max was derived originally from a car engine.


That is not correct. The Duramax is made by Izuzu and was designed as a diesel from the start. Before the Duramax, GM had several diesels in pickups that weren't up to the competition, including one engine in the eighties that started out as an Olsdmobile gas engine.

But concerning the guy punishing his engine mile after mile with overheat alarms going off, he's not too bright. If he was a GM engineer doing destructive testing, it would make sense. Not only should he not win a lawsuit, but GM should cancel any warranty that was on that engine. Owners have an obligation to operate a vehicle properly, not to abuse it and blame the manufacturer.

Also, here is the approximate horsepower needed to climb an (assumed) 4% grade at 70 mph with the U-Haul being 13 feet in the air and GCWR of 22000 lbs. This is from an Excel spreadsheet that was et up to make these calculations. 55 horsepower is lost through drivetrain friction yielding 425 gross HP needed 
Horsepower estimator 
Enter the following information: 
Maximum Height (in inches)	156	Enter the height of the tallest vehicle
Maximum Width (in inches)	96	Enter the width of the widest vehicle
Minimum Ground Clearance (in inches)	14	Enter the ground clearance for the vehicle that sits the closest to the ground
Desired speed (mph)	70	
Anticipated headwind (mph)	0	Note: Tailwind does not help like headwinds hurt.
Anticipated grade (steepness) of the road	4%	For level ground, enter 0
Total combined weight (in pounds, tow vehicle and trailer) 22,000 
Elevation (in feet) - 
Elevation factor	0%	0% for turbo-charged or super-charged diesel engines, 2% for gas and non turbo-charged or super-charged diesel engines.
DO NOT ENTER BELOW THIS LINE 
Horsepower needed to combat: 
Rolling resistance	58.85	(Speed x combined weight x (6.75 + (0.074 x Speed))) / 375,000
Air resistance	147.20	(Frontal area x Speed x Speed x Speed x drag coefficient) / 375
Grade resistance	164.27	(Speed x %Grade x combined weight) / 37,500
Elevation	0.00	(Elevation / 1000) * Elevation factor
425.86	Total horsepower required.

Bill
[/quote]

Shouldnt torque be thought about here. 
For instance, my Cat in my semi makes 425 [email protected] 1600 rpm, and 1850 ft lbs [email protected] 1200 rpm. Im 65 feet long, with 18 tires, 12'9" tall. I run 75 down the highawy very easy in overdrive. BUT I weigh 80,000 lbs. I run bewteen 5000 and 7500 feet elevation. I average 2-6% grades, and at those times I'm around 65-70 on 2% and 30-35mph on 6% grades. I have a 10 speed overdrive tranny. 3.70 rear end gears, with about 36" tall tires. I run 1650 rpm at 75 mph. My engine makes max torque at 1200 rpm, max hp at 1600 rpm.. I lose about 50-60hp thru the drivetrain also. My turbo makes 24lbs of boost. My width is also 96". Ground clearence is also 12-14". The engine a C-12 Cat. 12 liters in engine size. Max engine rpms is 1800. Sorry this is not in order.

Can you please run these numbers for me. Tell me what you come up with. Hope I gave you enough info..

Thanks! Carey


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

I love this thread. It won't die and I have learned a lot and get a kick out of everybodies persepective so---- I strolled over to Dieselplace this morning.

They have a very recent poll on overheaters vs. non-overheaters concerning the trucks in question. Overheaters = 25% , non-overheaters = 75%. HOWEVER there is not a lot of rigor. They set no bounds so somebody who pulls 5000 lbs says he doesn't overheat. The guys pulling heavy and going up the Rockies do overheat. Some see high temps even pulling flat!

I also did notice that a lot of people did buy the Product mentioned in the video and they now no longer overheat! Some of you guys have the vehicles in question and as you get up there in miles, and if it were me ,I would buy that radiator as an insurance policy. Also I saw at least 5 posts where the people got their trucks lemon lawed and are now driving the '06 trucks with the later motor in it.


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

Carey,

To appreciate the fine nuances between horsepower and torque is difficult (for me at least, even though I understand the math).

Also, I didn't create the spreadsheet. I found it online several years ago. So I'm uncertain how accurate or useful it may be. But I did input your variables and got the following results.

All cases assume 80,000 lb weight, 153 inches high, 96 inches wide, 13 inches ground clearance and no headwind. Also allowed 55 hp driveline losses. This program states that turocharged engines operate with no horsepower penalty at altitude, so elevation wasn't considered.

75 mph on a level road requires 530 hp.
65 mph on 2% grade requires 730 hp.
35 mph on 6% grade requires 685 hp.

So I think your Cat's 1850 lb-ft of torque must be making a strong contribution to your pulling ability, especially on those grades. Also, since smaller diesels in 3/4 ton and 1 ton pickups are advertised at or above 300 hp, I have always thought the big rigs with a lot more displacement should have at least twice the power. Maybe someone else can shed some additional light on this one.

Bill


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Bill, Horsepower doesnt pull you up a hill. Torque does. Thats why diesels are the prefered engine to use as a pulling engine. GENERALLY The gas engine will make more horsepower per cubic inch, The diesel will make much more torque per cubic inch.

There are a couple reasons for this.

A gas engine has a much lighter recipocating mass, much lower compression(10to1), and a much lighter flywheel weight, because it needs to be able to spin fast, quickly without breaking. Gasoline burns at a very fast rate. So to make power in gas engines, they need many, many burn times quickly. Many burn times equals rpms. Thats why a gas needs to be in the 3000-4000 or higher rpm range to make power. You have to have many quick power bursts to counter the load being applied to the gas engine. A gas can make lots of hp because it spins very fast. But it makes little torque because of the very fast burn time(rpm). The bigger the bore/stroke a gas engine has makes more hp easier, but torque doesnt gain as easy over more cubic inches.. Its something that is a characteristic of a gas engine and cant be changed much... Again I say GENERALLY.

A diesel has about a 20to1 compression ratio to fire the diesel. That reqiures a very heavy recipocating mass, in turn needing a heavy flywheel. The heavy flywheel keeps the engine turning and absorbs sonics from the large mass. This mass has to be spun slower to keep it together. Diesels require a very slow burn time to make power, so the faster you run a diesel, the less horsepower it will make GENERALLY..... Its torque is made from the heavy mass with the slow burn time combined with slow rpms...
This is the difference in big truck diesels, versus pickup truck diesels. My cat im my semi makes power at a much lower rpm than a smaller pu diesel. The bigger the diesel the more torque it makes because of the slow burn time being placed over larger bore/stroke. The larger the bore/stroke, the more torque it can make at a lower rpm, but horsepower gains arent as easy to gain in diesel cubic inches reguardless of rpms because of the slow burn time...

In other words, many fast gasoline burn times make horsepower. Many slow diesel burn times make torque, size for size.. Again GENERALLY..... 
If you look up specs on a gas pu engine, it makes its horsepower/torque in the 3000-4000 or a higher rpm range. If you look up specs on a pu diesel it makes its horse power/torque in the 1500-2500 range..

I have explained this in several ways to make sense to everyone. Its hard to just write this out of my head quickly.

So basically what I'm saying is your hp finder majig is for a gas engine, not a diesel. Your hp finder doesnt take into account the torque a diesel makes.. You need to find a torque finder if youd like to find out how much power it takes to pull a hill with a loaded diesel.

The biggest diesel in any semi you can buy is the Cat C16. All other manufactures stop at about 14.5 liters. But you can buy Cats up to 16 liters. The C16 turned up all the way, has about 42 lbs of turbo boost. It makes just over 600 hp........ BUT it makes 2500 ft lbs of torque. They are awesome!

Next time a train goes by listen to the engine.. You can almost count the burn times. Again, the larger the diesel, the larger the torque with fewer rpms. But horsepower changes little in diesels as the cubic inches get bigger..

Hope this makes sense to you all. If someone can help me out explaining this, GO FOR IT!!

Carey
ps Thanks Bill for running my numbers! In diesel engines, it takes 300 hp to run 75 mph loaded at 80000 lbs.. That tells you how far off your finder is concerning diesel engines... Your finder is dead on for gas engines... Hoping not to hurt your fellings.......


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Bill and Carey,

Your saying the same ,but different things. Bill you start off with speed, speed in physics is rate. When you bring rate into the equation that is HP. Carey is talking about work or torque. If you don't even have the torque to move it you obviously will have no rate, no HP. Torque is ft lbs as in I move 1 pound 1 ft and I have a torque of 1 ft lbs. HP is the rate at which I do work and says very little about how heavy of an object I can move or lift . If you understand that you will never get confused. Power is power and torque is torque!

In simple terms (forgetting about the laws of thermodynamics) a diesel produces it's torque from long connection rods and the explosion in the cylinder. That is what is making it knock. At some point in time, (certain RPM) the explosion is only so powerful then you meet Peak torque of an engine. Spinning it faster doesn't let you do more work as in lift a heavier weight or pull a larger weight. It only allows you to pull a certain weight much faster. Apply this to pulling up a hill and the diesel has more torque can lift a heavier weight and also retains the rate at which the work is being done. The gas engine not having the ability to lift the heavier weight up the hill looses rate. You step on the pedal , you increase the rate but you still don't go faster you only keep the speed constant. Torque will make you accelerate, HP will allow you to keep a certain speed. High HP , high speed.

So then why do they turbocharge highway diesels. Answer is so that they can do work faster which is an increase in HP and run 75 MPH. That is how they make money, e.g doing work faster! The torque increase is very little since you can only stuff so much into the cylinder before it has dimishing returns. Going beyond this like I said is getting into the laws of thermodynamics and I won't go there.

Hope that makes things less fuzzy


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks Mike!... As you can tell I didnt finish college. Its hard to explain this stuff when you aint all schooled up.. lol

I was working on an automotive degree so I could work for the big 3.. Couldnt talk the wife into moving to Detroit, so I just gave it up.... Well, divorced 4 yrs later....









So here I am a truck driver, but I do love it...

Thanks!
Carey


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Hey, can I apply for some physic's credits after reading the last few posts?

Seriously, all this in interesting, please keep it coming.

Tim


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

hatcityhosehauler said:


> Hey, can I apply for some physic's credits after reading the last few posts?
> 
> Seriously, all this in interesting, please keep it coming.
> 
> Tim


x2

I thought I knew some about diesel engines and now after reading this I'll just stick to oil changes and fuel pumps.

Bill.


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

So I''l show you another one and use rear ends to make it practical. Newton tell us that energy is conserved. So the torque put into a rear end is equal to what is applied to the wheels. ft lbs in equals ft lbs out.

Now lets say I have a 3.73 rear end. The pinion spins 3.73 times for every one revolution of the wheels. Now lets change that to a 4.10 rear end. The pinion spins 4.10 times for every turn of the wheels. If measured on the ground I went less distance (feet) using the 4.10 then using the 3.73. with an equal revolution of the pinion. However Newton said energy is conserved. Torque going in equals torque going out. So If I travelled less distance then I have a greater force going out which thereby keeps the equation equal. Kind of like 2 # * .5 feet equals 1 # * 1 foot. Therefore that greater force enabled me to lift the heavier weight ( a trailer up the hill easier). The weight of that trailer on a hill was actually increased due to the force of gravity and hence you needed more force to overcome that. The 4.10 gave you that force.

Voila! that is why a 4.10 pulls hills better then a 3.73, 3.55 etc, etc.

Now lets talk HP with the same rear end. With the 4.10 I travelled less distance. If I travelled less distance I likely couldn't get there as fast. Fast is rate, is speed and now HP can be factored in. So with the 4.10 I have to apply more HP to keep up the rate or cover the given distance in the particular amount of time.
Look down at your tachometer on your truck. If you wanted the same speed you would be turning higher RPM in the motor and getting a higher HP with the 4.10. Again Torque is work or the ability to do work. You can also call it energy. HP is the rate at which you do work.


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## JimWilson (Feb 24, 2004)

Lmbevard said:


> I have to agree that the test was not totally fair, I would very much doubt that the old Dodge was pulling near the weight that the GMC was pulling. But there is also a difference between a Cummins and a Duramax, the Cummins was derived from a true truck engine while the D'max was derived originally from a car engine. I know that they have have done a lot with the D'max but the Cummins, expecially the older ones are way over built as compared to the D'max. But then again, the Dodge tranny sure isn't up to the long haul either.
> 
> On the other hand, like everyone has said, the driver needed to look out for his unit as well. I would love to be able to pull my 5er at 80 mph on cruise but I am learning that that is not the best way to drive. This driver was so distracted that it wouldn't have surprised me of him crashing as well as burning. We all need to remember that when we are pulling a RV, that is our job, not taking movies or messing with a bunch of stuff, including the radio, GPS unit, etc.


You pretty much took the words right out of my mouth.

I really believe that the Dmax should have done better, but there's no question that this guy is a complete imbecile! Trying to blow up your truck is one thing -- and your own business -- but attempting to do so while jeopardizing everyone around you is just plain idiotic. Towing a trailer is your primary focus, not filming a video of it. And then he picks up the phone to talk to his buddy, and while he's doing that he starts screwing around with the laptop?! Totally asinine. I almost hope when he presents that video as evidence for his lawsuit that the cops nail him with about 5 moving violations and take his license.

Wouldn't it be awesome to hook up the Cummings to the Allison tranny though? Now THAT would be a potent combo...


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