# Electrical Problem



## phaucker (Jul 23, 2007)

So my family and I went to Santa Claus Indy, Lake Rudolph, this past weekend. BTW...this is an excellent campground for faimlies to visit. Anyway, Saturday around 3am, I lost power in the tt. I am not sure what happened, but I did not blow any fuses or breakers. I was only able to run on battery power. Could not get any of the outlets to work at all. I was with some friends that had some electrical experience...we started to trouble shoot the problem. According to them, I have a neutral ground fault...Has anyone else had this issue before?

This is what was on during the outage:
Air
Fan
Frig


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Never had that issue on the whole TT before. i had it on a circuit for my outlets on the kitchen side of the TT. We survived the weekend and i took it in to the dealer for warranty and they repaired it. basically, you have a lose ground wire somewhere, but in your case it is probably somewhere between the box and the shore power effecting the whole system, not a single circuit. Im no electrical expert but im sure sombody with some more experience will chime in.
DT


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

With all power (shore and battery) disconnected, check the connections into your circuit box, including all fuse/breaker connections. A number of members have found very loose connections.

Regards, Glenn


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

I've lost my microwave twice and some outlets once in the year I've owned my trailer. This stuff happens quite mysteriously. With the microwave, my DW baked several potatoes, and then when she went to heat up something else about 5 minutes later, the microwave lost all power. It turned out to be loose wires/connections inside the electrical panel (which I didn't discover until after the trip was over - and thanks to this forum).

My suggestion is to unplug your shore power and disconnect your battery. Then open the electrical panel door, remove the two screws and the face plate. Then wiggle all wires and circuit breakers and tighten all screw-type connections at the buss bars. Then replace the panel face and screws.

Then hopefully, after re-connecting the battery and plugging in the shore power, your problem will be solved. I'm disappointed that I've had to do this twice now, but I guess I can understand that after bouncing down the road a few thousand miles each year, a few things will loosen up and need re-tightened now and again.

But these things always happen at the least opportune time. (Well duh, I guess I wouldn't know there is a problem unless I try to use something and it doesn't work









This may not be your problem, but it will cost nothing to try. And you won't have to pay anyone to turn a couple screws. (And I'd bet that this is the first thing a dealer tech would do!)

Hope this helps and fixes your problem.

Mike


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

I have to ask... Did you check the breaker at the campsite hookup?

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## phaucker (Jul 23, 2007)

PDX_Doug said:


> I have to ask... Did you check the breaker at the campsite hookup?
> 
> Happy Trails,
> Doug


That was the first thing I checked after checking the breakers inside. As a matter of fact, I unplugged my buddy's and plugged mine into his, but with no avail...


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## phaucker (Jul 23, 2007)

Scoutr2 said:


> I've lost my microwave twice and some outlets once in the year I've owned my trailer. This stuff happens quite mysteriously. With the microwave, my DW baked several potatoes, and then when she went to heat up something else about 5 minutes later, the microwave lost all power. It turned out to be loose wires/connections inside the electrical panel (which I didn't discover until after the trip was over - and thanks to this forum).
> 
> My suggestion is to unplug your shore power and disconnect your battery. Then open the electrical panel door, remove the two screws and the face plate. Then wiggle all wires and circuit breakers and tighten all screw-type connections at the buss bars. Then replace the panel face and screws.
> 
> ...


We did check the wiring inside the breaker box, and found a couple of lose wires, but it didn't help...


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## phaucker (Jul 23, 2007)

There is one other thing...when I try and turn the AC on, the light comes on and I can hear the thermostat kick on, but still nothing happens...


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## wtscl (May 22, 2007)

Mine did the same thing while camping this summer. Fortunately, the main 30 amp breaker in the TT was popped. Just reset and had no other problems. I would throw each breaker just to reset them all.


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## bentpixel (Sep 2, 2006)

Sounds like the GFI tripped. This tester should help find the trouble. The ground fault can be any place in the curcuit. Use an adapter to test camp power coming in the TT. Reset your GFI outlet. (Mine is in the bathroom.) Check the TT outlets one at a time to see if one of them was wired by Gilligan.














just a WAG.

Good Luck,
Scott


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

Hillacious said:


> This is what was on during the outage:
> Air
> Fan
> Frig


The fridge works on 12V DC, but the (roof) fan and the air (conditioner) both require 120V AC for operation. It would appear that you have AC voltage going to those two appliances, but not outlets, etc. (Is your Microwave working, because that is plugged into a dedicated AC outlet, with it's own circuit breaker.)

If your statement above (that I quoted) from your original post is true, then I still contend that there is a loose connection somewhere after the Main breaker, but between that supply and the circuits in question. The problem is chasing them down. I'd bet that there is a short to ground somewhere - hopefully not in a place that could pose a safety threat.

Good luck with this one, and let us know what you find to be the culprit. We all learn from each problem and solution that gets posted here.

Mike


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## phaucker (Jul 23, 2007)

Scoutr2 said:


> This is what was on during the outage:
> Air
> Fan
> Frig


The fridge works on 12V DC, but the (roof) fan and the air (conditioner) both require 120V AC for operation. It would appear that you have AC voltage going to those two appliances, but not outlets, etc. (Is your Microwave working, because that is plugged into a dedicated AC outlet, with it's own circuit breaker.)

If your statement above (that I quoted) from your original post is true, then I still contend that there is a loose connection somewhere after the Main breaker, but between that supply and the circuits in question. The problem is chasing them down. I'd bet that there is a short to ground somewhere - hopefully not in a place that could pose a safety threat.

Good luck with this one, and let us know what you find to be the culprit. We all learn from each problem and solution that gets posted here.

Mike
[/quote]

Basically nothing but the lights and bathroom fan work. The microwave is not working...the green light on the AC comes on, and I can hear the thermostat kick on (or at least something clicking), but that is the extent of equipment with power.


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## W4DRR (May 17, 2005)

Hillacious said:


> This is what was on during the outage:
> Air
> Fan
> Frig


The fridge works on 12V DC, but the (roof) fan and the air (conditioner) both require 120V AC for operation. It would appear that you have AC voltage going to those two appliances, but not outlets, etc. (Is your Microwave working, because that is plugged into a dedicated AC outlet, with it's own circuit breaker.)

If your statement above (that I quoted) from your original post is true, then I still contend that there is a loose connection somewhere after the Main breaker, but between that supply and the circuits in question. The problem is chasing them down. I'd bet that there is a short to ground somewhere - hopefully not in a place that could pose a safety threat.

Good luck with this one, and let us know what you find to be the culprit. We all learn from each problem and solution that gets posted here.

Mike
[/quote]

Basically nothing but the lights and bathroom fan work. The microwave is not working...the green light on the AC comes on, and I can hear the thermostat kick on (or at least something clicking), but that is the extent of equipment with power.
[/quote]

The lights and bathroom fan run on 12V. The little green light in the AC is on 12V also. If it was the GFI, some, but not all, of the outlets would still work. The symptoms you describe, 120VAC power is not even getting to your breaker panel. The power cord or plug itself may have a problem.

Bob


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## phaucker (Jul 23, 2007)

W4DRR said:


> This is what was on during the outage:
> Air
> Fan
> Frig


The fridge works on 12V DC, but the (roof) fan and the air (conditioner) both require 120V AC for operation. It would appear that you have AC voltage going to those two appliances, but not outlets, etc. (Is your Microwave working, because that is plugged into a dedicated AC outlet, with it's own circuit breaker.)

If your statement above (that I quoted) from your original post is true, then I still contend that there is a loose connection somewhere after the Main breaker, but between that supply and the circuits in question. The problem is chasing them down. I'd bet that there is a short to ground somewhere - hopefully not in a place that could pose a safety threat.

Good luck with this one, and let us know what you find to be the culprit. We all learn from each problem and solution that gets posted here.

Mike
[/quote]

Basically nothing but the lights and bathroom fan work. The microwave is not working...the green light on the AC comes on, and I can hear the thermostat kick on (or at least something clicking), but that is the extent of equipment with power.
[/quote]

The lights and bathroom fan run on 12V. The little green light in the AC is on 12V also. If it was the GFI, some, but not all, of the outlets would still work. The symptoms you describe, 120VAC power is not even getting to your breaker panel. The power cord or plug itself may have a problem.

Bob
[/quote]
I do have power getting to the control box. That I do know (not much of anything else...







)
I had a friend that was with me check that and I do have power at the control box.


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## Rollrs45 (May 7, 2007)

Hillacious said:


> This is what was on during the outage:
> Air
> Fan
> Frig


The fridge works on 12V DC, but the (roof) fan and the air (conditioner) both require 120V AC for operation. It would appear that you have AC voltage going to those two appliances, but not outlets, etc. (Is your Microwave working, because that is plugged into a dedicated AC outlet, with it's own circuit breaker.)

If your statement above (that I quoted) from your original post is true, then I still contend that there is a loose connection somewhere after the Main breaker, but between that supply and the circuits in question. The problem is chasing them down. I'd bet that there is a short to ground somewhere - hopefully not in a place that could pose a safety threat.

Good luck with this one, and let us know what you find to be the culprit. We all learn from each problem and solution that gets posted here.

Mike
[/quote]

Basically nothing but the lights and bathroom fan work. The microwave is not working...the green light on the AC comes on, and I can hear the thermostat kick on (or at least something clicking), but that is the extent of equipment with power.
[/quote]

If you're not getting shore power to the AC then it's not going to come on..... It won't work on 12 volts. It will beep and lights will be on and you may hear a click, but it won't come on. Your lights and fan run off the battery while your plugs, microwave and AC compressor run off shore power. This happened to me on our last trip when we lost shore power due to a faulty breaker at the CG.

Mike


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## W4DRR (May 17, 2005)

Hillacious said:


> I do have power getting to the control box. That I do know (not much of anything else...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you have power to the breaker panel, then the only thing between there and the outlets, AC, Microwave, etc. are the breakers themselves.

Bob


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

W4DRR said:


> If you have power to the breaker panel, then the only thing between there and the outlets, AC, Microwave, etc. are the breakers themselves.
> 
> Bob


Agreed. And it would be really a HUGE longshot that all of the breakers, or all of the wires leading to each individual circuit are all bad.

So, there ya are thinking about either the main 30amp breaker, or that you are mistaken about power being present at the fuse box.

Check em' out


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## fishnmagician (Dec 27, 2005)

Go to your breaker panel and turn each one off all the way and then back on, sometimes they don't reset correctly.


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## ccauthor (Jul 30, 2004)

It sounds like you have a bad connection in the junction box where your power cord connects to the #10 feed to the breaker panel. 
Make sure you are not hooked in to 120V power then find the J-box it will be near the location of your cord storage which will be under a cabinet or some area withoutout direct access. This box will be 4X4 inch. remove the cover and check the wirenut connections on all three wires. I think you will find at least one that has over heated and isno longer making contact. Strip the wires back put them together side by side and install new wirenuts. (Do not twist the wires)

Make sure the power is OFF and connect the black to black, white to white and the green to the copper non-insulated wire.

I hope this helps


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Just be carefull !! make sure SP and batteries are diconnected when diggin into the wires. I know it has been said before here but thought id mention it again. Electricity scares me.


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## tgcan (Feb 27, 2007)

We had this same problem and found that it was a loose wire in the little juction box in a small cabinet close to where the cord connects into the trailer. we made sure all the wires were tight and all power was restored. But at the same time we were having problems with the GFI plugs which truned out to be a faulty wire between the bathroom and the bedroom. Thansk goodness for electrition friends! Good Luck


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## phaucker (Jul 23, 2007)

Here is an update to my electrical issue. It appears that I had a fire in the juction box leading into the tt...here is a pic...I am so upset. We had 8 people in the camper that night and I cannot believe that a new tt would have issues like this one does. I think I have just about had it with Keystone. I will be calling Team Challenger on Monday and I will be asking for my money back. It is just amazing how many problems that I have had with this BRAND NEW tt.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

dpthomasjr said:


> basically, you have a lose ground wire somewhere, but in your case it is probably somewhere between the box and the shore power effecting the whole system, not a single circuit.
> DT


You found it !! The good news is. THe junction box can be easliy and PROPERLY wired if you choose to keep it. Good luck with it all and sorry to hear you have had so many problems.
DT


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Hillacious said:


> Here is an update to my electrical issue. It appears that I had a fire in the juction box leading into the tt...here is a pic...I am so upset. We had 8 people in the camper that night and I cannot believe that a new tt would have issues like this one does. I think I have just about had it with Keystone. I will be calling Team Challenger on Monday and I will be asking for my money back. It is just amazing how many problems that I have had with this BRAND NEW tt.


Glad you found the problem, and sorry about the grief. At the risk of sounding like a hometeam homer, this can and does happen with all brands of RV's. Your experience with this problem is quite an exception and can be easily fixed. Best of luck and wishes to you with whatever you decide.


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## phaucker (Jul 23, 2007)

California Jim said:


> Here is an update to my electrical issue. It appears that I had a fire in the juction box leading into the tt...here is a pic...I am so upset. We had 8 people in the camper that night and I cannot believe that a new tt would have issues like this one does. I think I have just about had it with Keystone. I will be calling Team Challenger on Monday and I will be asking for my money back. It is just amazing how many problems that I have had with this BRAND NEW tt.


Glad you found the problem, and sorry about the grief. At the risk of sounding like a hometeam homer, this can and does happen with all brands of RV's. Your experience with this problem is quite an exception and can be easily fixed. Best of luck and wishes to you with whatever you decide.
[/quote]

Am I being too harsh? I mean, my family and friends were in the camper sleeping when this fire occurred? I had the door to the master closed (smoke detector is in this room). What if the fire would have spread? I think the kids in the bunks could have been seriously injured if that would have happened. Even if they do fix it, how am I supposed to feel comfortable letting my family sleep in the tt again? I mean, if the manufacturer could not prevent the problem before it left the factory, how can an electrician at a dealership make me feel more comfortable that the problem would be fixed. To me, the bottom line is that it should have never left the factory in that condition.

If the problem was a loose wire, then am I to assume that I need to check the wiring in the tt every time I take it out? I don't have to do that with my car...? Sorry if I seem mad, but I am very upset. My family and friends were in that tt, sleeping. I shouldn't have to question the safety of anyone I let sleep in my camper, especially a new one.


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## bentpixel (Sep 2, 2006)

Sorry you've had this trouble with your TT. That said, it should be noted that the electrical fault failed in a safe mode. The box prevented the fire from spreading. The circuit breaker prevented the short circuit from heating the box to start a fire outside the box.

A personal note: I witnessed an electrical "fire" just like yours. The house I grew up in was wired with aluminum wire, the A/C unit had copper wire. One day my dad and I were doing some yard maintenance on the A/C side of the house and we both saw a puff black smoke come out of the j-box and heard the A/C unit shutdown. It was a quick fix and we did not move out of the house.

If you feel you have a "Lemon" then by all means pursue this vigorously. You deserve to be happy with you TT.


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Hillacious said:


> Am I being too harsh?


Perhaps, but hey it's understandable. I know how you feel, and putting your family in any kind of danger is a troubling thing.

But consider this. Even a perfectly wired RV can and has rattled the wires loose somewhere resulting in the exact same result. Is an RV that does this defective? No. It's part of the inherent risk and responsibility of owning an RV, and why we all spend so much time around here helping each other. To learn and minimize the trouble associated with RV ownership. (and to goof off a little too).

Now I'm not saying that your's was wired correctly and that you shouldn't seek recourse. But rather that any RV could have this kind of trouble at any time. So dumping your new rig will not remove you from the risk.

Whatever you decide, stay plugged into an RV group as you go forward, and you will have a greater level of success than without doing so.

Good luck and best wishes.


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## phaucker (Jul 23, 2007)

California Jim said:


> Am I being too harsh?


Perhaps, but hey it's understandable. I know how you feel, and putting your family in any kind of danger is a troubling thing.

But consider this. Even a perfectly wired RV can and has rattled the wires loose somewhere resulting in the exact same result. Is an RV that does this defective? No. It's part of the inherent risk and responsibility of owning an RV, and why we all spend so much time around here helping each other. To learn and minimize the trouble associated with RV ownership. (and to goof off a little too).

Now I'm not saying that your's was wired correctly and that you shouldn't seek recourse. But rather that any RV could have this kind of trouble at any time. So dumping your new rig will not remove you from the risk.

Whatever you decide, stay plugged into an RV group as you go forward, and you will have a greater level of success than without doing so.

Good luck and best wishes.
[/quote]

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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

California Jim said:


> Am I being too harsh?


So dumping your new rig will not remove you from the risk.
[/quote]
I agree with Cowbell Jim, a different TT will not remove the risk or concern. I dont think you being upset is out of question at all. It is unfortunate and nerve racking to think in your brand new TT this can happen. This should not have happened. The box did what it was supposed to do and contained the thermal enomily. (Industry standard is to avoid usage of f!re word) the other thing to note is that it may not have "flaired up" it may have only overheated. I work in automotive electronics and that picture looks like 99% of our test-to-fail results. However no flames were reported. If that box was on fire I would think the black tape would be gone. Now, if the box was not there and it was mounted to a combustabe surface, things could have been different.

Also, remember, there are smoke detectors installed in the TT and you can always add more if it makes you more comfortable. I just might do this. Make sure everyone is trained on how the doors and emergency exit windows work.

Something else that was mentioned here a week ago or so was that at one CG a group of kids went around at night and were swinging the large style handrails in front of the doors and the owners were having to call the CG front desk to get out of their TT's. I was planning on modifying mine so it can not be closed over the door. You may want to look in to this as well just to be safe. While that could be funny, it also could make for a death trap.

Hopefully you will beable to get it repaired correctly and find the piece of mind to move on, i just would not puit false security in hoping another TT will be free of risk.

Whatever you decide, travel safe and enjoy!
DT


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