# The Batwing! Is There A Better Antenna.



## TeamCyBo (Oct 22, 2011)

We have been tossing around going to satellite as a means of tv reception, but right now it is cost prohibitive. We are concidering upgrading our DTV antenna. Is this worth replacing the batwing with anothing type/brand antenna? Quite frankly, we have yet to go to a cg and get decent reception. Even with the booster on it still just sucks. Any thoughts or suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Bo


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## john7349 (Jan 13, 2008)

How about the other campers in the campgrounds? Is their reception just as bad? My son in law had lousy reception too. Turns out Gilligan had a driven a nail through the coax.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

I have a suggestion that worked for me. Go to radio shack and by thier $39 10db signal booster. At your TV, unplug the coax and plug that into the signal booster input. Plug the supplied coax from the signal booster into your TV, turn the gain all the way up.

If you aren't amazed at the amount of channels you recieve after that I will eat my hat. Look at my profile picture and imagine how much I want to do that!

We did this and *tripled* the channels we recieved. I was very happy.

Eric


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## TeamCyBo (Oct 22, 2011)

egregg57 said:


> I have a suggestion that worked for me. Go to radio shack and by thier $39 10db signal booster. At your TV, unplug the coax and plug that into the signal booster input. Plug the supplied coax from the signal booster into your TV, turn the gain all the way up.
> 
> If you aren't amazed at the amount of channels you recieve after that I will eat my hat. Look at my profile picture and imagine how much I want to do that!
> 
> ...


John, I have checked the cable and am pleased to report that Gilligan has not been near it. I can say that when it is parked in our driveway that the reception is good and only looses reception every now and then.

Eric, a booster is also something that I was think of trying, but what about the so called booster that came with the TT? Are you saying bypass that one or add an additional one to help. I believe the batwing that came with the TT is just assembly line standard grade antenna. The Winegard Sensar, aka Batwing is, I think, a low end model. There is a replacement head, model called the Sensar IV and is supposed to improve reception. I like the idea of boosting the signal but I may not be getting a good signal to boost. Eric, do you have a model number on that RS booster?

Thanks,
Bo


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

TeamCyBo said:


> I have a suggestion that worked for me. Go to radio shack and by thier $39 10db signal booster. At your TV, unplug the coax and plug that into the signal booster input. Plug the supplied coax from the signal booster into your TV, turn the gain all the way up.
> 
> If you aren't amazed at the amount of channels you recieve after that I will eat my hat. Look at my profile picture and imagine how much I want to do that!
> 
> ...


John, I have checked the cable and am pleased to report that Gilligan has not been near it. I can say that when it is parked in our driveway that the reception is good and only looses reception every now and then.

Eric, a booster is also something that I was think of trying, but what about the so called booster that came with the TT? Are you saying bypass that one or add an additional one to help. I believe the batwing that came with the TT is just assembly line standard grade antenna. The Winegard Sensar, aka Batwing is, I think, a low end model. There is a replacement head, model called the Sensar IV and is supposed to improve reception. I like the idea of boosting the signal but I may not be getting a good signal to boost. Eric, do you have a model number on that RS booster?

Thanks,
Bo
[/quote]

I can get it pretty quick for you. And no it doesnt repace the booster installed. The Radio Shack booster actually boosts the signal from the installed booster. The one installed in the camper works just not that great, and you need that there to be able to shut of that signal from the antenna when you hook up to cable.

I will be back momentarily with the number.

Eric


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

It is model 15-2505. It is about $30. I highly recommend it. It also will boost incoming cable signals. Turning it off and on will demonstrate the difference in the quality of some channels. Over the air stations are really helped.

Make sure you have rotated the antenna to recieve the greatest number of channels. You may find a particular channel that has a particularly weak signal can be very directional. Adjusting the height and direction of the antenna will allow the booster to work on the strongest signal available.

Good luck!

Eric


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## TeamCyBo (Oct 22, 2011)

egregg57 said:


> It is model 15-2505. It is about $30. I highly recommend it. It also will boost incoming cable signals. Turning it off and on will demonstrate the difference in the quality of some channels. Over the air stations are really helped.
> 
> Make sure you have rotated the antenna to recieve the greatest number of channels. You may find a particular channel that has a particularly weak signal can be very directional. Adjusting the height and direction of the antenna will allow the booster to work on the strongest signal available.
> 
> ...


Hey Eric, thanks a lot for the info. I will take a look at the booster at RS down the street. I found that there are several sites where you can plug in your location and it will give you all of the stations VHF/UHF in that area and the distances to each. Google "antenna geoselctor" and also Tvfool.com. My findings are that there are very few VHF stations now as most have switched over to UHF. The Batwing is geared more for VHF. So that may be the reason for the lack of channels and reception. I have also found that Winegard has produced an addon UHF adapter for the Sensar. It just snaps on and is about $26 from CW. With both the booster and the Wingard Wingman addon I might just be in business, lol.

Thanks again for your help.

Bo


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## outback loft (Sep 22, 2008)

A different booster may help, but the other thing to consider is that the new digital broadcasts work more on a line of sight and sometimes the signals are blocked by obstructions. For example when I am out on the beach with no trees around; I get almost 50 stations from the antenna. But when I am inland, and surrounded by trees I get very few channels.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

TeamCyBo said:


> It is model 15-2505. It is about $30. I highly recommend it. It also will boost incoming cable signals. Turning it off and on will demonstrate the difference in the quality of some channels. Over the air stations are really helped.
> 
> Make sure you have rotated the antenna to recieve the greatest number of channels. You may find a particular channel that has a particularly weak signal can be very directional. Adjusting the height and direction of the antenna will allow the booster to work on the strongest signal available.
> 
> ...


Hey Eric, thanks a lot for the info. I will take a look at the booster at RS down the street. I found that there are several sites where you can plug in your location and it will give you all of the stations VHF/UHF in that area and the distances to each. Google "antenna geoselctor" and also Tvfool.com. My findings are that there are very few VHF stations now as most have switched over to UHF. The Batwing is geared more for VHF. So that may be the reason for the lack of channels and reception. I have also found that Winegard has produced an addon UHF adapter for the Sensar. It just snaps on and is about $26 from CW. With both the booster and the Wingard Wingman addon I might just be in business, lol.

Thanks again for your help.

Bo
[/quote]

OH! Wait a minute! what year is your Outback?!

If it is an older one, you're going to need a Digital to Analog Converter! The signal Bosster still works with this, it will need to be installed before the D to A box, and then to your TV. Had to do that with my 31RQS. Our new 325FRE was already "Digital Ready" and I threw on only the amplifier.

Eric


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## TeamCyBo (Oct 22, 2011)

Hi Eric, we have a 2012 210RS so we are good on the digital front. I picked up the Wingman and the 15-2505 booster today. I will install it this weekend and let you know how it does.

Bo


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

TeamCyBo said:


> Hi Eric, we have a 2012 210RS so we are good on the digital front. I picked up the Wingman and the 15-2505 booster today. I will install it this weekend and let you know how it does.
> 
> Bo


I don't think you're going to need the Wingman. I have not heard any good reviews on it by any one who has bought and installed it. BUT I don't think it will hurt. The reviews I heard in regard to it, used by itself was marginal at best.

The Signal Booster I am sure you are going to be happy with. Try it before you put the Wingman on, then install the wingman and see if there is additional improvement. You could help some one else down the line that may have the same sort of reception issues. AND I am curious too!

Eric


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## Justman (Jul 22, 2006)

Lots of confusion out there about antennas. There are a LOT of people out there who went out and bought a "digital" TV antenna, thinking they needed one for their new digital TV. Not so! Digital TV is still carried by an analog carrier wave. The carrier wave is just modulated to represent a series of 1's and 0's---hence the "digital" aspect. Since digital TV is still carried by an analog carrier, your old rabbit ears are still able to pick up the digital signal just as well as (or better than) most of the new "digital" antennas.

The digital TVs ARE more dependent on signal quality than our old analog TVs, so if your signal quality is poor, chances are you won't pick up a good signal. The middle of a campground with tall trees, low lying areas, etc. are not good places to get a good signal...period.

Said all that to say...I don't think a new antenna is going to help. A booster might though...


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

..or you could just sit around the campfire with some special liquid refreshments.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Oregon_Camper said:


> ..or you could just sit around the campfire with some special liquid refreshments.


 That is definately an option!


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

egregg57 said:


> Hi Eric, we have a 2012 210RS so we are good on the digital front. I picked up the Wingman and the 15-2505 booster today. I will install it this weekend and let you know how it does.
> 
> Bo


I don't think you're going to need the Wingman. I have not heard any good reviews on it by any one who has bought and installed it. BUT I don't think it will hurt. The reviews I heard in regard to it, used by itself was marginal at best.

The Signal Booster I am sure you are going to be happy with. Try it before you put the Wingman on, then install the wingman and see if there is additional improvement. You could help some one else down the line that may have the same sort of reception issues. AND I am curious too!

Eric
[/quote]

I should clarify, in my circumstance, with a tube TV in my 31RQS I needed the Digital to Analog converter and signal booster. The newer flat screen, LED, Plasma etc TV's don't need the "box" just the amplifier to boost the available channels.

Eric


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

I don't know...I still think the 75 bucks I spent on a portable satellite dish connected to a spare DirecTv receiver from the house was one of my best mods ever. We don't watch tv a whole lot when we're camping, but when we do, it's nice to have the choice of a couple hundred channels and a perfect picture. We don't get any channels with the batwing antenna most places we go, so satellite is really our only option.


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## TeamCyBo (Oct 22, 2011)

Here is my understanding of the Batwing. The design focuses more on the VHF signal because when it was designed most channels out there were on VHF. This left the UHF part of the antenna on the low end. Since the change to digital signal a majority of stations have switched to UHF. Winegard has basically come out with a fix. It is called the Wingman and simply attaches to your current Sensar "Batwing" antenna. This Wingman is strictly for UHF and brings that part of the antenna up to where the VHF is. It was interesting going on the websites that locate station antennas and what they are transmitting. While I found some VHF stations, most of what I found were UHF. So it is only reasonable that I am missing the signal that is out there. I believe that the booster will help. I talked to the service dept. at CW and the guy basically said that the booster that comes with the TT is not all that it is cracked up to be and suggested and additional booster would be better. I do realize that if I'm down in a hole or heavily wooded area that I'm not going to get much in the way of a signal. We don't watch much tv but in the case of our last trip on New Years we were both sick and trailer bound with NO tv at all. We almost packed it in but we were feeling so bad that packing up the camper and heading home was just not an option. We did cut the trip a little short when we got to feeling better. Anyway, I digress, lol. If this will improve reception and signal quality I'm all for it.

Bo


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## TeamCyBo (Oct 22, 2011)

Insomniak said:


> I don't know...I still think the 75 bucks I spent on a portable satellite dish connected to a spare DirecTv receiver from the house was one of my best mods ever. We don't watch tv a whole lot when we're camping, but when we do, it's nice to have the choice of a couple hundred channels and a perfect picture. We don't get any channels with the batwing antenna most places we go, so satellite is really our only option.


Insomniak, can you give me some details on your satellite setup. $75 for a dish? What kind? And what service subscription plan do you have? Any input that you can give would be great just in case this whole Batwing project goes bust.

Thanks,
Bo


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

TeamCyBo said:


> I don't know...I still think the 75 bucks I spent on a portable satellite dish connected to a spare DirecTv receiver from the house was one of my best mods ever. We don't watch tv a whole lot when we're camping, but when we do, it's nice to have the choice of a couple hundred channels and a perfect picture. We don't get any channels with the batwing antenna most places we go, so satellite is really our only option.


Insomniak, can you give me some details on your satellite setup. $75 for a dish? What kind? And what service subscription plan do you have? Any input that you can give would be great just in case this whole Batwing project goes bust.

Thanks,
Bo
[/quote]
Well, the price certainly has gone up since we bought our dish several years ago! This is the basic round dish, and we've since upgraded to an oval dish that gives us HD channels. Our home subscription with DirecTv gives us far more than we'll ever use while camping, but they offer less expensive options without all the movie channels. Actually, I believe they offer some sort of RV or traveler package that you should be able to find on the DirecTv web site. The extra receiver for the trailer costs us about five bucks a month to activate.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/winegard-portable-digital-satellite-antenna/18416


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## john7349 (Jan 13, 2008)

Oregon_Camper said:


> ..or you could just sit around the campfire with some special liquid refreshments.


I don't know... I've gotten some blury signals watching that too...


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## TeamCyBo (Oct 22, 2011)

john7349 said:


> ..or you could just sit around the campfire with some special liquid refreshments.


I don't know... I've gotten some blury signals watching that too...








[/quote]
Yeah John, me too, but ain't it fun









Bo


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## bbwb (Apr 4, 2008)

Save you money by not purchasing the Batwing...I have one and reception has not improved much if not any. I am looking at a replacement antenna.
bbwb


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## TeamCyBo (Oct 22, 2011)

bbwb said:


> Save you money by not purchasing the Batwing...I have one and reception has not improved much if not any. I am looking at a replacement antenna.
> bbwb


So what would you suggest. The TT came stock with the Batwing so I'm not going out to purchase one.


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## TeamCyBo (Oct 22, 2011)

Batwing Update........... Ok, here are my results. I have my OB in the driveway. With the stardanrd Sensar III Batwing and the original booster that are stock from the factory I was able to get 15 channels. The signal strength meter of 0-100 that is on the tv was at 30.

I installed the aftermarket booster from Radio Shack mod# 15-2505 and the results are 49 channels and a signal strength of 75.

I then installed the Wingman onto the Batwing and the results are 59 channels and a signal strength of 100.

I was very pleased to see these results with the understanding thats this is my driveway and the results will be different when we are at the CG. But still, the increase is well worth the expense and time. Let me know what you think.

Bo


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## john7349 (Jan 13, 2008)

TeamCyBo said:


> Batwing Update........... Ok, here are my results. I have my OB in the driveway. With the stardanrd Sensar III Batwing and the original booster that are stock from the factory I was able to get 15 channels. The signal strength meter of 0-100 that is on the tv was at 30.
> 
> I installed the aftermarket booster from Radio Shack mod# 15-2505 and the results are 49 channels and a signal strength of 75.
> 
> ...


Great results! Thanks for taking the time and posting it. I think I will do this too!


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

TOLD YA!

;-)!


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## TeamCyBo (Oct 22, 2011)

egregg57 said:


> TOLD YA!
> 
> ;-)!


Ha Ha, guess you did! Thanks for the info. It was a great help. That's one of the reasons I like this site. I know that there is someone on here with answers. I guess this means you don't get to eat your hat. Well, there's always a cold beer, lol. Thanks again.









Bo


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

TeamCyBo said:


> TOLD YA!
> 
> ;-)!


Ha Ha, guess you did! Thanks for the info. It was a great help. That's one of the reasons I like this site. I know that there is someone on here with answers. I guess this means you don't get to eat your hat. Well, there's always a cold beer, lol. Thanks again.









Bo
[/quote]

Yeah.. you have to be pretty confident when wagering to eat that hat! Lots of roughage there. 
Eric


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

I think that booster should be standard equipment!


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## TeamCyBo (Oct 22, 2011)

egregg57 said:


> I think that booster should be standard equipment!


 Yeah, but that hat did look tasty, lol. I think a lot of folks here would like Keystone to upgrade there "standard" equipment. You would think that they would have enough feedback on things such as the ancient thermostat they use, to go ahead and change to make their units a cut above the rest. What would it cost them, a few bucks extra? Imagine the response and PR they would get it they changed the little things. Good PR goes a long way. This might be a good thread to start, "What would you like to see as a standard upgrade?" Hmmmmmm, might be interesting.

Bo


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

TeamCyBo said:


> I think that booster should be standard equipment!


 Yeah, but that hat did look tasty, lol. I think a lot of folks here would like Keystone to upgrade there "standard" equipment. You would think that they would have enough feedback on things such as the ancient thermostat they use, to go ahead and change to make their units a cut above the rest. What would it cost them, a few bucks extra? Imagine the response and PR they would get it they changed the little things. Good PR goes a long way. This might be a good thread to start, "What would you like to see as a standard upgrade?" Hmmmmmm, might be interesting.

Bo
[/quote]
If you had been around, say just 5 or 6 years ago, you'd be amazed at the changes that Keystone has made to the Outback line. We've had several "what would you like to see changed" threads, and many of those wishes have come to fruition. I like to think that the Outbackers have been instrumental in the development of many useful modifications and upgrades. Sometimes Gilligan goes his own way and does something silly, like the brown front cap, but lately the positives outweigh his goof-ups.


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## Brooklinite (Aug 17, 2011)

Thanks guys. A booster is on my shopping list.


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## Stance (Jul 24, 2011)

Insomniak said:


> If you had been around, say just 5 or 6 years ago, you'd be amazed at the changes that Keystone has made to the Outback line. We've had several "what would you like to see changed" threads, and many of those wishes have come to fruition. I like to think that the Outbackers have been instrumental in the development of many useful modifications and upgrades. Sometimes Gilligan goes his own way and does something silly, like the brown front cap, but lately the positives outweigh his goof-ups.


There was a Keystone rep at the dealer when we picked up our OB. She came over and thanked us for our purchase and then told us about this website. So, I'm sure they look at it regularly. They are smart to look at it. It's free market research.


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## rtavi (Jul 8, 2005)

I bought the wingman add on for my batwing then found that It hit the air conditioner shroud when i tried tocrank the antenna down to the travel position-so I took it back


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

I get plenty of digital HD channels with great reception, wherever we go, using the antenna that came on our 2007 Outback. I thought about getting the upgraded antenna and/or the "add-on" for digital signals a couple years ago, but the concensus here was that the extra money would not necessarily get me better reception. And in some cases, folks complained that the older antenna worked better!

As for me, I don't watch too much TV when we go camping, unless it's raining cats and dogs. All I ever usually do is watch the news and weather reports, and use it as my "sleeping pill" when I go to bed at night!

Save your money for stuff you REALLY need!

Mike


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Scoutr2 said:


> I get plenty of digital HD channels with great reception, wherever we go, using the antenna that came on our 2007 Outback. I thought about getting the upgraded antenna and/or the "add-on" for digital signals a couple years ago, but the concensus here was that the extra money would not necessarily get me better reception. And in some cases, folks complained that the older antenna worked better!
> 
> As for me, I don't watch too much TV when we go camping, unless it's raining cats and dogs. All I ever usually do is watch the news and weather reports, and use it as my "sleeping pill" when I go to bed at night!
> 
> ...


 Yeah! Like a Dish! Or a Vue Cube!


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## Crazy Canucks (Apr 22, 2012)

Hey folks, new here, my wife and I just bought a 2nd hand 2007 21RS yesterday. I was looking at picking up the Winegard HD Wingman next weekend at a local trailer shop since it will be on sale then but I wondered if someone can confirm that it will clear everything on the roof when it's cranked down? I don't have the TT yet so I cannot check for myself. It looks like some have installed it on a 210RS but I do not know if that has the same setup on the roof.

Thanks in advance.


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