# Wd: 1000lbs Or 1500lbs Bars???



## tgil27 (Mar 15, 2009)

I have the tow vehicle (06 Avalanche 2500). I am picking up the TT (310bhs) this weekend and don't trust what the dealer is going to recommend. I will probably be buying the Blue Ox SwayPro when I pick it up. The tongue weight of the TT is 865lbs dry. The GVW(loaded) weight of the TT is 10000 lbs. The 310bhs has a huge storage area in the front where most of the camping gear will be stored (fair amount of weight). What bars should I get: Blue Ox Sway Pro 1000lbs or the Blue Ox Sway Pro 1500lbs ???

GL


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Loaded tongue weight should be 10 to 15% of loaded trailer weight. I prefer the higher side of the range and that would be 1500 pounds so the 1500 pound bars would be called for.

Never use dry weight for calculations of towing equipment. By the time you add propane, batteries and load the trailer you will have 1200 to 1400 pounds on the tongue. You may also be in need of a Class IV or V hitch upgrade on the truck with that much on it.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

tgil27 said:


> I have the tow vehicle (06 Avalanche 2500). I am picking up the TT (310bhs) this weekend and don't trust what the dealer is going to recommend. I will probably be buying the Blue Ox SwayPro when I pick it up. The tongue weight of the TT is 865lbs dry. The GVW(loaded) weight of the TT is 10000 lbs. The 310bhs has a huge storage area in the front where most of the camping gear will be stored (fair amount of weight). What bars should I get: Blue Ox Sway Pro 1000lbs or the Blue Ox Sway Pro 1500lbs ???
> 
> GL


I am jealous....yours comes with Alloy wheels..........wanna swap???

I had up graded to a ProPride Hitch and have the 1400 lb bars, 1000 lb bars will not be enough..............you will be over 1200 lbs tongue weight.

Clarke


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I will go against the grain...

1000lb set up with air bags on the suspension or oveload springs.. I would pick air bags over overload springs because air bags ride nicer.

An avalanche is a pretty soft riding vehicle.

With the 1500lb model you will end up using the bars to pick up the rear of your sagging avalanche. This will give alot of bounce and cause a teeth chipping ride. The ride can and will upset your stomach...

If you pick a bar that is equal to or just below actual tongue weight then use an overload bag/spring device to keep the rear from sagging, you will actually find the ride will be bareable..

Carey

ps.. Im with Andy on the new hitch.. I would pick a class 5 model. If your hitch is weak, than the weight distribution will not work as well. If you stay with the factory class 3 hitch maybe a 1500lb blue ox would be good.

You will find that if you use a class 5 hitch that you will get more weight transfer using a 1000lb blue ox than you will using a class 3 hitch and using a 1500lb blue ox.

A class 5 hitch with a 1500lb blue ox will kill your ride..

Carey


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

I have to side with Andy. GL stated he had a 2500 Avalanche, so it has a 3/4-ton suspension, which is stiff, to begin with. My 2500HD Crew Cab has the 6-1/2 foot bed, so it's close in size. My truck rides very rough, when not towing or hauling, especially with 80 psi in the tires. But it rides smooth with the Outback in tow.

A good WD hitch, if adjusted properly, will transfer the tongue weight forward and evenly distribute the tongue weight over the front and rear axles. My truck squats about 1-1/2" in the rear, but it squats the same amount in the front, too, when I hook up the trailer.

With the 1500# bars, he will have plenty of room for adjustment, especially if he puts 400+# of water in a forward fresh tank. And he will also be set if/when a heavier trailer or a Kargaroo comes along some day. I got bars on the high side, just for those reasons, but my Equal-i-zer had the 1200# bar option. I am very pleased with that stiffness. Very little porpoising effect, which could be induced by less stiff, more springy bars.

And yeah. Go with the Class V hitch reciever. They aren't that much more expensive and it will give you that extra safety margin, plus you have room to move up. Get rid of that GM factory reciever (round tube type). They are an accident waiting to happen. They make it nearly impossible for your WD hitch to do its job, because the GM reciever just twists and flexes - not rigid enough. (But if you want a spare, I have a brand new one sitting in my shed







.)

Just my thoughts.

Mike


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## tgil27 (Mar 15, 2009)

Scoutr2 said:


> I have to side with Andy. GL stated he had a 2500 Avalanche, so it has a 3/4-ton suspension, which is stiff, to begin with. My 2500HD Crew Cab has the 6-1/2 foot bed, so it's close in size. My truck rides very rough, when not towing or hauling, especially with 80 psi in the tires. But it rides smooth with the Outback in tow.
> 
> A good WD hitch, if adjusted properly, will transfer the tongue weight forward and evenly distribute the tongue weight over the front and rear axles. My truck squats about 1-1/2" in the rear, but it squats the same amount in the front, too, when I hook up the trailer.
> 
> ...


Ok....you guys made me go outside in the rain to check if I had a Class III or Class V Reciever. So like Mike said.....it has round tube type so it's probably the Class III type (Just purchased the TV 3 weeks ago....so just learning the details now). I am confused a little though. Why would a 12000# (with 4.10 gears) tow capable vehicle be fitted with a Class III hitch? Thanks for the responses......as you can see.....can't sleep!!!!


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## tgil27 (Mar 15, 2009)

clarkely said:


> I have the tow vehicle (06 Avalanche 2500). I am picking up the TT (310bhs) this weekend and don't trust what the dealer is going to recommend. I will probably be buying the Blue Ox SwayPro when I pick it up. The tongue weight of the TT is 865lbs dry. The GVW(loaded) weight of the TT is 10000 lbs. The 310bhs has a huge storage area in the front where most of the camping gear will be stored (fair amount of weight). What bars should I get: Blue Ox Sway Pro 1000lbs or the Blue Ox Sway Pro 1500lbs ???
> 
> GL


I am jealous....yours comes with Alloy wheels..........wanna swap???

I had up graded to a ProPride Hitch and have the 1400 lb bars, 1000 lb bars will not be enough..............you will be over 1200 lbs tongue weight.

Clarke
[/quote]

Clarke,

Other than the Alloy Wheels, any other changes?
I've tried to find the 2010 Brochures but they are not available yet!!!
BTW....My Wife and I loved the mods.....especially the coat rack and the under dinette sliding drawer.
One question....the brochure says that there is an "Exterior quick connect LP hook-up" where is it located?......around the outside kitchen? Trying to figure out what I need for a hose lenght.

Thanks,

GL


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

tgil27 said:


> I have to side with Andy. GL stated he had a 2500 Avalanche, so it has a 3/4-ton suspension, which is stiff, to begin with. My 2500HD Crew Cab has the 6-1/2 foot bed, so it's close in size. My truck rides very rough, when not towing or hauling, especially with 80 psi in the tires. But it rides smooth with the Outback in tow.
> 
> A good WD hitch, if adjusted properly, will transfer the tongue weight forward and evenly distribute the tongue weight over the front and rear axles. My truck squats about 1-1/2" in the rear, but it squats the same amount in the front, too, when I hook up the trailer.
> 
> ...


Ok....you guys made me go outside in the rain to check if I had a Class III or Class V Reciever. So like Mike said.....it has round tube type so it's probably the Class III type (Just purchased the TV 3 weeks ago....so just learning the details now). I am confused a little though. Why would a 12000# (with 4.10 gears) tow capable vehicle be fitted with a Class III hitch? Thanks for the responses......as you can see.....can't sleep!!!!
[/quote]

Most all vehicles come with a class 3 hitch. I have a dodge dually 3500, and yep had a class 3 hitch from the factory. I have replaced that to a class 5. The factory doesnt want you to tow more than 10k lbs becuase if you dont have all the proper tools to do so is very dangerous. So they supply a cl 3 hitch and tell you to never tow more than that rating off of the bumper.

An avalanche does not have the same suspension as a 3/4 ton pick up.. An avalanche is much more compliant and has a much lessor payoad capability. Cant compare an avalanche to a 3/4 pick up..

Everyone always thinks bigger is better.. Not with wd systems. One equal to or just smaller is better.

Problem, few are using all the correct parts. So they use there oversize wd systems to make up the difference..

If using that 1500lb model to pick up the rear of a sagging rig, you will have much more porpusing than using the correctly weighted bars combined with air bags.. 1000lb bars will not give a porpusing effect as they are below the actual tongue weight.

The ride will be much less affected by the wd system if using the a system equal to or less than actual tongue weight if combined with the proper hitch.

Using a class 3 hitch and using a 1500lb setup creates a springy less than optimum situation. The cl 3 hitch will have alot of flex from the prying factor created by 1500lb bars. The 1000lb model will not work properly using a class 3 hitch. This is why the majority tell you to use a bigger than actual weight system. On there own rigs the 1000lb model didnt work... This is why.

Most everyone will tell you go for bigger, because on there own rigs, they are using an incorrect hitch and have found they got the best results from a bigger than actual t/w system. But you will also see those people arent happy with there ride and never figure out what the actual problem is.. They end up replacing there vehicles thinking it was the vehicle when in reality it was just there too light of weight hitch.

A class 5 hitch will not flex and will give full potential of the wd system. That is why a 1000lb model would work extremely well with a class 5 hitch, if you have a 1200 or so tongue weight.

Then use air bags to pick up the sag. Dont use the bars.

I have added my imput and I will be in the minority and thats cool.. The majority are just using the hitch the factory supplied and when approching the limits of there hitch question why they arent happy with there systems too..

So I will say no more..

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

lol just a lil more









Payload is just 2072 pounds... An Avalanche will be a tail dragger with a 1200+ tongue weight, so air bags are a must.

Your tow rating is 10200lbs w 3.73 axle and 12000lbs w 4.10 axle. '

Payload is the same for both 3.73 and 4.10 models. 2072 lbs.

In reality you dont have a big enough vehicle to tow a 10000lb trailer. Yea I know you have a big block and have a 2500, but you are towing right at the limit for your vehicle.

Most people always use the 80% rule and tell anyone going over that to go buy a bigger vehicle. Essentially you fall under that rule and you should go buy a bigger vehicle for that trailer. I dont agree with that though.

You are in the same boat as Tundra owners are in.. Big power, but light weight suapension. Can tow a train as long as it supports itself behind your rig..

I feel you will be fine as long as you buy the proper products to make your Av. work for you..

You will have to be very careful buying your towing products. If not you will be unhappy with the stability and ride, then will join the un-needed new tow vehicle club as a bigger stiffer vehicle fixes everything and yes thats the easiest thing a person can do.. For many though, this takes the fun out of RVing because they had to spend over there budget to feel safe. Then RVing becomes a pain trying to afford it..

Does your Avalanche have a full float Rear axle? I think it doesnt, but am not sure..

I would buy air bags 1st. Then go by dealer and have them install a 1000lb blue ox for you... Go for a drive... Then have them install a 1500 blue ox for you... Go for a drive.. The trailer will need to be loaded and you will need to adjust the hitch head angle to find optimum ride and wd.

The 1000lb model will need hitch head set back 3/4 for a starting set up. The 1500 model will need hitch head at 1/2 to 5/8ths set back for a starting set up.

Be sure to travel same roads and find a rough road too.

Pick what you like at that point... Yes this will cost some money. This will also cost you an entire saturday..

If you make the wrong choice, in short order, you will be looking for a new tow vehicle and will spend at least 10k to change vehicles.

Spending 1k with a dealer to find the right hitch would be much cheaper than picking the wrong unit and trading for a 3/4 ton pick up down the road.

When approching the limits of a tow vehicle the products you use are of the most importance.

My feeling is 1000lb bars combined w a cl 5 hitch and air bags.. Hitch head set at 3/4 to 7/8ths. The bars will be around 85-90% of rated pressure. You can use a scale to find the amount your bars are applying to the vehicle.

The majority will say cl 5 hitch 1500 bars and no bags, because its already a 3/4 ton...

If you set that 1500 system at 90% and end up with a 1200 tongue weight, you will have bronco bustin ride a cowboy would live for.. A 1500 system is an incredibly strong system and can control a 17-19k lb trailer pretty easy. I use an 1100lb system with 14-1500lb tongue weights and 10-14000lb trailer weights and just love the ride.. Yep air bags set at 30-35psi on my dually.. If I had a 1500lb system on a 1400 tongue weight I would be a hurtin unit.. I drive 700-800 miles a day with these big boys in tow.. I need a cushy ride, and have found that a maxed 1100 system can do wonders with tongue weights in the 1500lb range.. I let my air bags take up the rest of the work.. My ride is wonderful giving that I have a 40-44 foot park model sail on my back.. Very 5th wheel like as far as ride goes.. I can cruise at most any speed but 60-65 is just fine with these big boys. I have traveled thru blizzards with winds into the 50's and those maxed bars create a maximum sway control affect also.. You bet she creaks and moans around corners and in parking lots.. I wish you all could ride in my rig with bars rated at quite a bit under actual tongue weight.. Yep hitch head angle is maxed all the way back for these dudes..

Now for the trailer I pulled this weekend thru the blizzard in Kansas.. My 1100 system sucked... I had a 32 foot North trail that weighed around 8000 dry with prolly a 8-900 tongue weight.. It beat the heck out of me, and had poor sway control versus having bars at max. I had hitch head set to 5/8ths on this model as that all I could stand because of the bone jarring ride.. I had 5-60 side winds that would have scared the guys in the movie the perfect storm, lol I had up to 3 feet of trailer movement side to side in this storm.. Yea even I got scared and took a angled route to reduce the wind directly on my side.. My wd rode rough and had poor sway control because the bars were at about 70%..

A bar with 90+% pressure will give more flex and suppleness. A too big of a bar at 60-70% gives a bone jarring ride..

You will find the correct bars and there actions can be controlled with air bags and some 275 psi nitrogen shocks like Gabriel Max Control, KYB, or Bilstien..

The rough bone jarring ride from big bars at low capacity from a lighter than rated tongue weight cannot be controlled by air bags nor shocks.. The bars at less than 75% will give a more porpusing feeling because they will have a wrap up effect going on. They will transfer more down movement then up movement. They will not flex with road conditions which then outputs a very rough kick back ride.

Bars maxed out at 90% or more and equal or less than the actual tongue weight will conform to road conditions and give a more controlled ride. The ride at that point can be further enhanced with air bags and high pressure nitrogen shocks. The bars will give way more when in a rough road situation. As the trailer bounces over bumps the bars cannot affect the tow vehicle as much as the actual tongue weight is over the ACTUAL rated bar weight. 
Unlike a bar rated over the tongue weight that uses what ever weight it can find if the tongue is too light to make it bend when the trailer bounces over bumps.. Think of a W/D spring bar as a leaf spring with no support in the center of the spring. If the spring is maxed at 90% it can only give the weight that is on one end over to the other end.

If the spring bar is at 70% rating, it will have the capability to give back more than what has been put into it.. So if the trailer bounces up, the bars will give tongue weight plus a sizable amount of trailer weight to the hitch head and then to the tow vehicle very easy.

Since one end is connected to the truck and one end is connected to the trailer. The bars will give shocks of weight back and forth over bumps.. Having your spring bars maxed from tongue weight only will give that set amount back and forth. Which is same if using no bars at all.

Why do you guys all complain of the rough ride when going from 1/2 to 3/4 ton? The bar ends are fighting with eachother because they are not maxed anymore from the suspension sag of trailer weight.. Using an 800 bar with a 1000 tongue weight would be perfect for a stiff 3/4 truck.

Many 1/2 ton owners use oversized bars to help with suspension sag. This make the ride unbearable and sends the 1/2 ton owner shopping for a new stiffer truck. If that 1/2 ton owner would pick equal bars to the actual tongue weight, then use an overload device they would find that the ride is totally acceptable. In many cases better than a 3/4 will give.

If a bar is choosen that is equal to or lessor than actual tongue weight, then that bar can only affect the actual tongue weight just like would be as if the tow vehicle had no weight bars at all.. In other words the bars cannot remove and apply excessive weight to your vehicle when the trailer bounces from a bump... The bars are already maxed out...

A whole other story is about having maximum sway control.. Most all combo sway/wd systems use bar pressure and friction to control sway. Having a bar completly maxed out gives the most amount of sway control versus a bar at 70-75%. That gives lessor sway control and again causes the owner and family to ride scared from the excessive trailer movements.. Again makes a guy go looking for a bigger tow truck..

Sorry to be a pain, but I tow rv's for a living and have learned a ton over the last year. Not just from myself but from the many guys that also do this for a living. '

I also designed a hitch that turns a trailer into a self supporting trailer. I spent many 1000's of dollars trying different products while prototyping my design. I learned a bunch there also.

We tow up to 44 foot long, 14000lb bumper pulls with up to 1800lb tongue weights. So do we have our hands full if using the wrong products?... Oh heck yea..

Since you are at your limits, the products you choose now use will decide wheather you end up keeping your vehicle or trading your vehicle.. Very important stuff.. very complicated too.. Another reason people just break there banks and trade off there newly bought vehicle on a heavier vehicle..

If you refuse to give up and learn thru tons of research you can find a safe set of products for many vehicles that few would use as a tow vehicle for a 10k+ trailer.

If people would use dry weights and then pick next size bigger wd system as a rule to pick wd systems and then deal with suspension sag the correct way with overload springs or air bags, many would find they would have a very stable and nicely riding vehicle even when the tow vehicle is at full rating or over mfr ratings..

So if dry is 800 go with 1000, If dry is 600, go with 750. If dry is 1000, go with 1200. If dry is 1200, go with 1500.. etc.. Nope they pick actual at 1100 and go 1400. Actual at 800 and go 1200, etc.

People use max weight of trailer, then pick next bigger wd size for added insurance.. Well they just shot thereselves in the foot.. They will never have a perfect wd/sway setup no matter what they do.. It ends up being a constant battle of ride versus safety.. Vey few people have even tried the method I am talking about here.. So I will get little support for my ideas and experiences and that fine with me.. Understand..

Its only normal to go next size bigger on everything.. lol We are trained that way.. But when picking wd systems going next size bigger costs many a man many 1000's because he and his family doesnt enjoy the ride nor feels safe, and ends up buying a bigger stiffer truck, which isnt a bad thing.. Just not needed in some cases.. To each his own..

Your Avalanche can tow a 1200lb tongue weight, 10klb trailer with ease and with great stability if the proper products are choosen to begin with.. Research, trial and error, patients and persistance is the key to making a maxed out vehicle as safe as anything out there on the road.

Carey


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> lol just a lil more
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Carey I would hate to see what you would write if you really had something to say.









I don't disagree with adding air bags but one issue that has not been mentioned much is sway control. Not sure what the OP will use as I am not familiar with the Blue Ox equipment but with the Dual cam and the Equalizer brand you want the load on the WDH to help the sway control function. If you lift/support the TV with airbags then you will not be using the WDH as much and on the Dual Cam and Equalizer that would not be the best set up.

I like air bags for pay load support (5er pin or slide in camper) but would not want to use them too much with a bumper pull.

I also agree the 1500 pound bars are not ideal as I would have suggested 1200 or 1300 pound bars if they were available.

As you mentioned it is all a compromise somewhere.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

that trailer off the lot will be 1000 lb +/- tongue weight


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

CamperAndy said:


> lol just a lil more
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Carey I would hate to see what you would write if you really had something to say.









I don't disagree with adding air bags but one issue that has not been mentioned much is sway control. Not sure what the OP will use as I am not familiar with the Blue Ox equipment but with the Dual cam and the Equalizer brand you want the load on the WDH to help the sway control function. If you lift/support the TV with airbags then you will not be using the WDH as much and on the Dual Cam and Equalizer that would not be the best set up.

I like air bags for pay load support (5er pin or slide in camper) but would not want to use them too much with a bumper pull.

I also agree the 1500 pound bars are not ideal as I would have suggested 1200 or 1300 pound bars if they were available.

As you mentioned it is all a compromise somewhere.
[/quote]

Blue OX uses friction just like all the rest for sway control.

Which is also why you want your bars loaded and set to to max to get max sway control.. Using a 1500 lb bar will never allow that..

Totally not true on the eq or dual cam models. They will work excellent with air bags IF you have choosen a Bar size under actual hitch weight. They will not work well at all if the bar size choosen isnt being used to its maximum potrntial along with air bags.. The two will fight each other..

Thats why the underweight or equal to hitch weight bars work excellent with air bags.. They cant affect the air bags becasue they are maxed out..

And Clarkey if that trailer weighs 1000lbs dry on the lot the 1000lb wd model would be the perfect choice..

I know you guys havent tried doing this.. If you do, you will see that your ride is excellent and will have maximum sway control.

Like I said, what Im saying is against the grain. Everyone is stuck in this bigger is better situation then are not happy with there combo because its not being or cant be used to its full potential without hurting the ride..

Good weight distribution and sway control will only happen when that spring bar is wrapped up to its full potential..

Carey


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

CamperAndy said:


> I don't disagree with adding air bags but one issue that has not been mentioned much is sway control. Not sure what the OP will use as I am not familiar with the Blue Ox equipment but with the Dual cam and the Equalizer brand you want the load on the WDH to help the sway control function. If you lift/support the TV with airbags then you will not be using the WDH as much and on the Dual Cam and Equalizer that would not be the best set up.


I agree, when i went from my F150 to my F350, i noticed a dramatic *decrease* in sway performance due to less squat and less WD needed to level the system. The drawback was that this equated to less sway control due to less pressure on the bars. When i discussed with Progress Mfg, (Equal-i-zer) changing to smaller bars they informed me that the effect on the sway would be the same. to distribute the weight the same, the force on either sized bar would end up being the same at the L-Bracket. 
Their (obvious) suggestion was to "crank" up the pressure by raising the L-Bracket or adding washers to the hitch. The hitch was "dialed" in just fine so when doing this it resulted in a much harsher ride and i then needed to add weight to the bed of the truck or front of the trailer to counter that. Not worth the hassle. I have now decided to give the ProPride a try.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

But the force would have been different at the hitch head Dean and on an Eq hitch would give sway control too..

So yes the weight at the rear L bracket would be same, but since hitch head would be tilted back further using a lighter weight bar versus a heavier than actual hitch weight bar. You would gain a solid amount of sway control from the bind at the hitch head..

Call Progress mfing and ask them about that.

A sway device that uses wd bars needs the hitch head angle set back beyond 75% to give max sway control.

Carey


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> But the force would have been different at the hitch head Dean and on an Eq hitch would give sway control too..
> 
> So yes the weight at the rear L bracket would be same, but since hitch head would be tilted back further using a lighter weight bar versus a heavier than actual hitch weight bar. You would gain a solid amount of sway control from the bind at the hitch head..
> 
> ...


That does sound like it would be bennificial. I think the key word you used is "bind". this just might be the biggest effect in changing to the smaller bars since the forces wouldnt change.

Good point, Carey.....i dont care what they say about you....


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Ok, I have to go lay under my dually today.. Im home and its time for mainatance..

The vast majority are using a wd system that isnt being used to its full potential. If you pick a wd system under actual hitch weight then the wd/sway system will naturally be used to its full potential.

The angle at the hitch head creates a the bind from the force of the bars. The weights placed on the bars are no different if a 1000lb bar or 1500lb bar is used. But spring pressure and binding forces will be different if the hitch head angle is set at the same for both models.

But the bind at the hitch head is much different when bars and angle of hitch is set close to max.

For the bar type sway device to work properly you need a very strong bind at the hitch head.

Its all about creating friction points to overcome a sway situation. If the hitch cannot be used in a fashion to create the forces that bind, you will not be happy with the combo, ride, control, etc..

I know this is just basic pysics, but the vast majority will naturally go to the next bigger size, defeating the maximum physic potential of there hitch..

Over time this gets old, and either the truck or trailer is replaced.

Air bags will work excellent if the total parts package is bought to work together as a package..

Thats why I say this is complicated, time consuming and flusterating.. It also very hard to understand and see thru.. Even rv dealers have trouble.. One almost needs to have the ability to understand pysics thru engineerng to understand and recongize what parts to buy..

Im just a truck driver and not an engineer.. lol But to me this is just weight stuff which truck drivers deal with on a daily basis..

Its too bad as many billions of dollars are wasted on this stuff..

Carey


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Carey..........I am not doubting you................my last set up was a 1500 burb with smaller bars , and airbags.........trailer was 9700 GVW 32' 8" long.

when i decided i was going bigger i went to the 2500.

are the effects the same if using the ProPride type hitch?

When I posted the tongue weight again...........(1000 +/- lbs) i was simply stating what it is (empty)...............add my propride i am closer to 1200............i bet once i am loaded for bear i am probably closer to 1400..........

Would you think i should use 1000 or 1400 lb bars.

I am asking because i am curious..............and I am always open to trying something that might make my set up safer and/or more comfortable.

Thanks,
Clarke


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Clarke, 
Id guess the WD effects are not the same on the ProPride as on an EQ type hitch as it does not utilize the WD function (lift on the bars) as the key to its frictional sway control performance.....at least i dont think it does.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

clarkely said:


> Carey..........I am not doubting you................my last set up was a 1500 burb with smaller bars , and airbags.........trailer was 9700 GVW 32' 8" long.
> 
> when i decided i was going bigger i went to the 2500.
> 
> ...


I'd agree with Sayonara.. You might ask Sean with Pro Pride. You have a different animal. I'm sure he sold you the proper unit, so I wouldnt worry.

So how does your rig ride? I see you have air bags and was just wondering.

You have about the same payload and suspension as an Avalanche. Your rig would be a good guide to use for this Avalanche. '

Carey


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Carey is right on the money with what Progress Mfg. told me about the same issues and getting better sway control with my F250. I have added two washers to angle my hitch head back farther at their suggestion. The grade 8 washers I found are very slightly thinner than the ones already on the hitch so I used two. The hitch head is noticeably more angled down now. We are headed out this weekend for a 350mi. round trip. I will find out how it does. I am going to take my wrenches and torque wrench in case I need to pull a washer out or make another adjustment. We will have a full compliment with the four of us and Mom along for the trip. That is 4 gals and me. They sure will appreciate a nice, sway free ride while we roll down the road with some Texas Swing keeping us entertained









-C


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Carey..........I am not doubting you................my last set up was a 1500 burb with smaller bars , and airbags.........trailer was 9700 GVW 32' 8" long.
> 
> when i decided i was going bigger i went to the 2500.
> 
> ...


I'd agree with Sayonara.. You might ask Sean with Pro Pride. You have a different animal. I'm sure he sold you the proper unit, so I wouldnt worry.

So how does your rig ride? I see you have air bags and was just wondering.

You have about the same payload and suspension as an Avalanche. Your rig would be a good guide to use for this Avalanche. '

Carey
[/quote]

Sean had said he would think i should go with 1400 lb bars.....and i did

I am still "fine tuning my set up"............with this trailer...........I am not sure how/if hitch angle has as much of an effect on the ProPride or Hensley type hitch...........I will Ask Sean as well as experiment myself..........the air bags do not Require near as much air pressure (obviously) as they did on my 1500 burb (last set up).......They are aired down 21lbs is what i found to be the nicest ride (so far). 
That's why i am asking..............I would say i have it riding better than my 1500 was...........a slightly stiffer on rough roads.......but much more stable........
I am happy with my set up...............but you never know how good it can be...........until you make it better









Thus i am always reading these type of "strings", and looking for more or different "schools of thought".

Thanks, 
Clarke


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

collinsfam_tx said:


> Carey is right on the money with what Progress Mfg. told me about the same issues and getting better sway control with my F250. I have added two washers to angle my hitch head back farther at their suggestion. The grade 8 washers I found are very slightly thinner than the ones already on the hitch so I used two. The hitch head is noticeably more angled down now. We are headed out this weekend for a 350mi. round trip. I will find out how it does. I am going to take my wrenches and torque wrench in case I need to pull a washer out or make another adjustment. We will have a full compliment with the four of us and Mom along for the trip. That is 4 gals and me. They sure will appreciate a nice, sway free ride while we roll down the road with some Texas Swing keeping us entertained
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I did this too but ended up not liking the ride. too much weight was transferred to the front axle and the ride was very harsh. the trailer felt more secure but i didnt want that harsh of a ride. its a balancing act.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Sayonara said:


> Carey is right on the money with what Progress Mfg. told me about the same issues and getting better sway control with my F250. I have added two washers to angle my hitch head back farther at their suggestion. The grade 8 washers I found are very slightly thinner than the ones already on the hitch so I used two. The hitch head is noticeably more angled down now. We are headed out this weekend for a 350mi. round trip. I will find out how it does. I am going to take my wrenches and torque wrench in case I need to pull a washer out or make another adjustment. We will have a full compliment with the four of us and Mom along for the trip. That is 4 gals and me. They sure will appreciate a nice, sway free ride while we roll down the road with some Texas Swing keeping us entertained
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I did this too but ended up not liking the ride. too much weight was transferred to the front axle and the ride was very harsh. the trailer felt more secure but i didnt want that harsh of a ride. its a balancing act.
[/quote]
Me too, I could lock them together, but then the ride was harsh. In the end, I carried more of the weight and in big gusts the trailer would wiggle a little in the mirrors. The reason I specify "in the mirrors" is that I didn't feel it at all.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Nathan said:


> In the end, I carried more of the weight and in big gusts the trailer would wiggle a little in the mirrors. The reason I specify "in the mirrors" is that I didn't feel it at all.


This is where im at right now. i can see the wiggle and only in a really heavy gust can i fell it. I want to stop it altogether.....







dont ask....its a OCD thing i suppose.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Sayonara said:


> ....its a OCD thing i suppose.


And that is why I'm going to be interested in your opinions on the Propride.









Even the 5'er can move in the wind, so this should be interesting!


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## tgil27 (Mar 15, 2009)

Well Guys,

Thanks for all the responses.

My bigest problem right now is finding a Class V Hitch for this '06 Avalanche 2500. I made this my first priority. Most people used to install the Putnum Class V Hitch but it is no longer manufactured as they are out of business. Draw-tite has a Class IV. I will be calling local hitch installers later today, maybe it's just not published on the Internet. If someone has installed one on 02-06 Avy 2500 or Suburban 2500, please le me know what brand and model you used. I'd rather have one installed with "No Drilling Required".

Thanks,

GL


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Nathan said:


> ....its a OCD thing i suppose.


And that is why I'm going to be interested in your opinions on the Propride.









Even the 5'er can move in the wind, so this should be interesting!








[/quote]
Rock solid, no movement, no exception is my expectation......







J/K. Im expecting good things.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

tgil27 said:


> Well Guys,
> 
> Thanks for all the responses.
> 
> ...


Does Curt mfg. have one?? Check them they say in this link they say to call .that they have a Xtra heavy Duty coming...i would think they would fill the void left by putnam. You may want to call them............i believe they might have something.............or try Hitches online they may still have a putnam for it..........


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Hrm - Nathan you and Sayonara have given me second thoughts - I might take it down to 1 extra washer and see how it does. As it is now, the front end is not back down to where it was before hitching up but it is close - about 2/3 -3/4" from the unloaded height. Some additional weight transfer wouldn't hurt in this case. I will disassemble the hitch tomorrow night and take it down to just 1 more of the "slightly thinner than stock" washers and see how it does. My previous tow yielded "fair" sway control characteristics. Not really what I would call "good". Your thoughts?

Nathan - btw - I put in 7 quarts of 5-20 Mobil 1 full synthetic today. We will see how she does this weekend









Curtis


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Curt made a Class 5 rated at 10000/12000 which would mean 10000 trailer 12000 Weight Distribution with trailer. But this model is listed for 2002 only. Must be a factory change after 2002. I know GM stated integrating there hitches into the frames for crash safety a while back, but dont know when. The part number is 14080Z.

I Looked at all the brands and knowone offers a Cl 5 hitch for your Av.

If you could get rid of the round tube hitch you rig has now and get a square tube Class 4 you would still be bettering your hitch capability.

I would Call Curt Hitch and see what they say though.

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

collinsfam_tx said:


> Hrm - Nathan you and Sayonara have given me second thoughts - I might take it down to 1 extra washer and see how it does. As it is now, the front end is not back down to where it was before hitching up but it is close - about 2/3 -3/4" from the unloaded height. Some additional weight transfer wouldn't hurt in this case. I will disassemble the hitch tomorrow night and take it down to just 1 more of the "slightly thinner than stock" washers and see how it does. My previous tow yielded "fair" sway control characteristics. Not really what I would call "good". Your thoughts?
> 
> Nathan - btw - I put in 7 quarts of 5-20 Mobil 1 full synthetic today. We will see how she does this weekend
> 
> ...


What weight Eq model do you have Curtis?

If you have the 1200lb model you will never get the sway working well without affecting the ride and adding too much weight to the front. It seems like I remember you having the 1200 model.

Well Curtis, you got the exhaust and cold air kit, now you need a performance chip..

Carey


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

collinsfam_tx said:


> Hrm - Nathan you and Sayonara have given me second thoughts - I might take it down to 1 extra washer and see how it does. As it is now, the front end is not back down to where it was before hitching up but it is close - about 2/3 -3/4" from the unloaded height. Some additional weight transfer wouldn't hurt in this case. I will disassemble the hitch tomorrow night and take it down to just 1 more of the "slightly thinner than stock" washers and see how it does. My previous tow yielded "fair" sway control characteristics. Not really what I would call "good". Your thoughts?
> 
> Nathan - btw - I put in 7 quarts of 5-20 Mobil 1 full synthetic today. We will see how she does this weekend
> 
> ...


Wow, you're really babying that truck. I always ran synthetic in mine while towing right up until I got the Diesel (I have been letting the dealer change the oil on the F350 because my drain pan isn't big enough...









As for the wdh part, with the reese, I had it set up about neutral in front, and a drop in the rear (I don't remember the amount right now). I would have called it a "fair" sway control. Like, I said, the trailer would move a little, but I wouldn't feel it.  Of course I probably had more tounge wieght than you also.

Aww heck, just buy the 5'er. It makes weight distribution really easy!


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Curt made a Class 5 rated at 10000/12000 which would mean 10000 trailer 12000 Weight Distribution with trailer. But this model is listed for 2002 only. Must be a factory change after 2002. I know GM stated integrating there hitches into the frames for crash safety a while back, but dont know when. The part number is 14080Z.
> 
> I Looked at all the brands and knowone offers a Cl 5 hitch for your Av.
> 
> ...


I may be wrong....but i did not think they started integrating it in until the new body style........2007 i believe is when they integrated it in.......... Call Curt or hitches online may still have putnams available...........i got a higher Putnam adjustable Hitch drop for my snowmobile trailer from Hitches online........after putnam had gone out.


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## tgil27 (Mar 15, 2009)

I might not need a new hitch after all.

Last night I called a camping buddy of mine that has a 2002 Suburban 2500 to see if he had replaced his trailer hitch. He told me that he looked at the hitch itself and on the label it said 12000 lbs Weight Distribution so he didn't bother replacing it.

I got home and check the hitch on the 2006 Av 2500 and he was right. The lable clearly indicates that the tow rating with distribution is 12,000lbs. It doesn't say anything about class III/class IV/class V. The hitch has 4 bolts to the frame and an additional 2 bold to the truck bumper. I will take a picture of it tonight and post it.

GL


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

A 12,000 pound hitch is a class IV. You should be good to go then.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

collinsfam_tx said:


> Hrm - Nathan you and Sayonara have given me second thoughts - I might take it down to 1 extra washer and see how it does. As it is now, the front end is not back down to where it was before hitching up but it is close - about 2/3 -3/4" from the unloaded height. Some additional weight transfer wouldn't hurt in this case. I will disassemble the hitch tomorrow night and take it down to just 1 more of the "slightly thinner than stock" washers and see how it does. My previous tow yielded "fair" sway control characteristics. Not really what I would call "good". Your thoughts?
> 
> Nathan - btw - I put in 7 quarts of 5-20 Mobil 1 full synthetic today. We will see how she does this weekend
> 
> ...


thats all you can do. keep inching your way towards the results you want. if you have the 1200lb bars you can not get the lower bars without changing out your entire hitch head too.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

my '04 suburban and Our trucks here, '06 suburban, '05 tahoe........all have 1500 lb rated tongue weight stickers on them..........


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

I have the 1000lb bars and corresponding hitch head.

-CC


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

collinsfam_tx said:


> I have the 1000lb bars and corresponding hitch head.
> 
> -CC


I bet your Outback has a 750 tongue weight.. It sure is too bad the 600lb bars couldnt be tried and would go into the 1000 head.. Sure would make it cheaper on a guy. You could lean back that head angle and still not push too much weight forward that way..

Let us know how this next trip does. Now that you have a bigger truck you need a lighter weight wd system to compliment it.

Naa... I think you need a hot rod chip instead..lol A swaying trailer cant bother a truck that can out run the sway.. lol

Take care dude!

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

tgil27 said:


> I might not need a new hitch after all.
> 
> Last night I called a camping buddy of mine that has a 2002 Suburban 2500 to see if he had replaced his trailer hitch. He told me that he looked at the hitch itself and on the label it said 12000 lbs Weight Distribution so he didn't bother replacing it.
> 
> ...


A 12000 hitch is equal to a class 4.. I'd try it and see what happens. A hitch shop could weld some stringers forward also. Thats about the only thing a Class 5 hitch has over a Class 4 hitch.

Class 4 mounts with 4 bolts and Class 5 mount with 6-8 bolts and has a pair of stringers going around 12-18 inches forward..

Hitch shops dont modify stuff like they used to though.

But if you have any twisting of the hitch assembly a couple forward stringers will eliminate that problem.

The old square box type hitches allowed this modification easier cause a hitch shop could fab up some bolt on stringers pretty easy without affecting the integrity of the hitch with welds..

A tube typw hitch makes it tougher to add bolt on stringers though, but it can be done..

Good luck and let us know how your project works out!

Carey


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Will the amount of drop to the hitch affect the ability of the WD bars to transfer weight forward?

i have about 10-12" of drop to get down far enough for the propride hitch......GM in their infinite wisdom put the suburbans Hitch up in the bumper..............instead of below it....................

in my head i can't rationalize (partly because i am tired and my brain is fried) whether being down further is giving me more leverage or whether that much drop is putting leverage on the midsapan of the bar and not effectively transferring it forward.........


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Yea maybe. The only way to tell is find a scale and weigh it all and see whats happening.

With the length of the propride plus your drop, you might be suprised how much is being absorbed by the hitch before it is transferred forward..

You should go weigh the rig and let us know!

Carey


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Yea maybe. The only way to tell is find a scale and weigh it all and see whats happening.
> 
> With the length of the propride plus your drop, you might be suprised how much is being absorbed by the hitch before it is transferred forward..
> 
> ...


I did..........and i could not get that much transferred forward.................tried all kinds of settings..............I tried driving it with the WD bars cranked up far................still did not have the weight transfer i should, when looking/comparing to what i would have done with my old set up and a "regular" hitch and WD bars............Drive wasn't as good with them cranked up that far.........

I will post all my weights (axles....unloaded TV....blah blah)when i get a chance to............probably start a topic for people with the 310BHS.

Tongue weight with the Propride and All my gear was at 1280............I never haul water in my tanks........only thing missing was some clothes, some food........and My captain morgan and beer


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

The drop should not affect the transfer of weight as long as the drop shank is not flexing.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

CamperAndy said:


> The drop should not affect the transfer of weight as long as the drop shank is not flexing.


Then whom do i leave behind....my kids or the captain and the Land Shark


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

I think you need to inspect your receiver for cracks or loose bolts holding it at the frame. If you are adjusting the weight distribution bars to increase transfer to the front of the TV and you are not getting any then you have to have something moving, I doubt it is the drop shank. I am also sure that Sean would have mentioned about the hitch taking up slack in the set up, so it is unlikely to be the hitch that is absorbing the weight distribution function (that is unless something is broken or loose that you have not found yet).


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

CamperAndy said:


> I think you need to inspect your receiver for cracks or loose bolts holding it at the frame. If you are adjusting the weight distribution bars to increase transfer to the front of the TV and you are not getting any then you have to have something moving, I doubt it is the drop shank. I am also sure that Sean would have mentioned about the hitch taking up slack in the set up, so it is unlikely to be the hitch that is absorbing the weight distribution function (that is unless something is broken or loose that you have not found yet).


I am getting transfer...........just not as much as i would have thought.......

I need to get my scale receipts and WD settings........ and i will post them when i get them all organized.........I have about 20 of them or more I was trying all kinds of settings.

Clarke


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