# Outback Delamination!



## mmonti

I posted this over at rv.net to get some feedback Im gonna post the same thing here, Im really upset that this has happened I was very happy with my Outback up until this happened. Keystone basically says so sorry cant help ya.

Ive had my Keystone Outback for approx 1 year and 5 months, preparing for my last camping trip right before Christmas, I went to my storage yard after work to pick up my trailer. As I removed the cover this is what I found. I was blown away that this had happened, Ive heard about the delamination problems with the Keystone Outbacks but was under the understanding that the issues had been corrected for newer model year trailers, Im here to tell you it hasn't been. I thought I was safe. I wish I had known about the delam issues before I bought this Outback

This is a 2008. I maintain my trailer very well, check seams, roof, Wash, Wax, I also keep it covered with an Adco cover. I immediately sent Keystone an email and also called my dealer, apparently Keystone says it was due to cracks in the sealants, based on these 4 photos that I sent them and denied any repairs, there are no cracks in my sealant or at the roof or around the lights. In the 17 months Ive owned this Ive checked all my critical seams about every 3 months. I'm very upset that Keystone wont own up to an obvious problem with the front caps delaminating on their Outbacks. This is definitely not an isolated incident and I'm positive it wont be the last one either.

Ive been looking for repair options, now Im really considering leaving it as is, ya know a lil advertising for Keystone.

What have others done with the delam on their Outbacks? Id really like to know and could use some help.

Here are the photos

Delam Pictures


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## Carey

I wonder if the cover caused some condenstaion on the underside of the skin.. Man that thing went crazy.. Its amazing how bad the area up on the roof is wrinkled. Id say the cover caused that on the roof for sure.

Last I heard Keystone is still having a fair amount of problems on all there soft nosed models.

Dont cover the rv anymore. Covers dont belong on rvs.

Carey


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## battalionchief3

I think a class action law suit is in order for Keystone. Thats insane. Its not that old. Their are way too many campers that happens to. They should at least split the cost but they say it will just happen again.


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## mmonti

I doubt it was the cover, Adco claims that the SFS aqua shed "beads water on contact and is virtually waterproof" & "lets moisture escape to prevent mold and mildew" I also live in southern California where rainfall is pretty low. Most of the time we have pretty nice weather. Kinda hard to imagine that all the Keystone trailers that have had front delam problems have been because of water infiltration or moisture.


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## Carey

Condensation does it. If the cover was tight over the trailer it would make the panel wrinkle. A little pressure is all it would take on the top and the front of the panel would go crazy just like yours did. Then the filon seperates from the cardboard and warps and wrinkles outwards from the cardboard.

Yes a quality fix from Keystone is needed. This problem is going on a good 5 years now.

Prolly time to sue the hell out of em so they change the design and then charge us more lol.. Isnt that how it works?

Feel for ya. Dont cover it anymore. No cover breaths 100%. Cali has lots of humid morings from the ocean. Humidity, not rain is your enemy. Keep that trailer aired out. It will last longer. Get some vent covers with a fantastic fan.

Carey


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## CalifRVers

I wondered about the cover also..I haven't heard good things about RV covers, which is why I chose not to purchase one. I also wonder if its the design of the nose?

That's awful though and I certainly wouldn't stop at NO! Im sure there are others that will chime in, possibly even others with the same issues, I hope Keystone resolves this for you, they really should step up and take care of this for you!

Goodluck!


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## kemccarthy

Our Ob also has the dreaded delamination. Funny thing though that it is a 03 and the previous owner covered it with an adco cover all the time. So that is what we did, then this past summer noticed the wrinkles and bubbles. Took it to the shop and was told yes their is just a small amouunt of water under the cover of the front cap. So how does water get it when being under a cover. Also our delamination just started and it is an 03, so go figure... Boy it makes me so made..







. No warranty coverage for us obviously, The dealer also quoted me $1000 just to repair and seal, not even for a new cap. Needless to say, we are doing nothing right now.. I love my camper but hate the way it looks. Kelle


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## PDX_Doug

mmonti,

I am really sad to hear about the delam problem you are having. Yikes! That is ugly. Not to mention Keystone's refusal to help. I am curious what Keystones reasoning was behind not covering this issue. Was it because of the cover? Out of warranty? Something else? The thing that blows me away on this one, is that this is not just a little delimitation, this is a major failure. And, from what I can see in the photos, I would think it is much more extensive than what would be caused by 'cracks in the sealants'.

One thing for sure, we are going to keep these photos handy. They are the best depiction of a delam problem I have ever seen. The next time somebody asks about delam and if they have it, these will be a great example of what delam is!

Hang in there, and stay on Keystone.

Happy trails,
Doug


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## thefulminator

Yikes is exactly the word I would use.

Are these pictures what keystone looked at? If so, how could they possibly tell that there were cracks. The images are not that detailed. I think I would have the dealer inspect it and have them pass on their findings to keystone. If the dealer documents that there are no cracks, it would be really hard for keystone to deny your claim.


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## ftwildernessguy

I'm wondering if heat may play a factor, too. It seems from the severe cases I have been reading about there is a concentration of these issues in the South and South west. I know another person on the forum who had a problem and lived in Arizona - water sure wouldn't be a factor there. I have owned trailers for 25 years, covered some and left some uncovered. By far the most severe damage I have seen on any of my trailers was on the uncovered ones left exposed to the elements over the winters. Snow and ice can do a real number on the roof of a trailer. I have an ADCO cover on my new 210rs. I was out to check on it yesterday and so far, so good.


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## kemccarthy

I was wondering the same thing about the hot temps causing it too. The original owner of ours lived in Cary, NC about 4-5 hours north of us in Columbia, SC. Our delamination started after the first summer here in SC under a cover where the temps were through the roof hot....


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## PDX_Doug

Temperature does play a roll in what might look like delamination. The fiberglass panels do expand and contract substantially with temperature changes, and as they are fastened down around the perimeter, that can lead to very noticeable warpage and bowing. Looks like delamination, but it's not. In my experience with our Outback, as soon as the weather cooled down everything would tighten back up again and look fine.

That is clearly not the case here. This is textbook delamination. As to whether heat plays a role in real delamination or not, I don't know. I don't think in these cases that it is the fiberglass itself that is delaminating, it is the bond to the underlayment. And that comes down to the adhesives Keystone is using. Or, it's the underlayment itself that is delaminating, and again, that is a Keystone design and engineering issue. Either way, I can't see how they can turn there back on something this extreme. Particularly on this new of a trailer.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## daslobo777

ftwildernessguy said:


> I'm wondering if heat may play a factor, too. It seems from the severe cases I have been reading about there is a concentration of these issues in the South and South west. I know another person on the forum who had a problem and lived in Arizona - water sure wouldn't be a factor there. I have owned trailers for 25 years, covered some and left some uncovered. By far the most severe damage I have seen on any of my trailers was on the uncovered ones left exposed to the elements over the winters. Snow and ice can do a real number on the roof of a trailer. I have an ADCO cover on my new 210rs. I was out to check on it yesterday and so far, so good.


Yes - we recently experienced the wonderful delam issue - well documented here on OB in other threads. I will not rant here - I have done a sufficient amount of that already. Humidity and rain are rare events here in AZ which adds to the areguement that this has nothing to do with rain / humidity. I do not have pics but my dealer also told me that we had a very bad case. We were able to work out a Keystone=Parts / Labor=Us deal with our dealer which ended up being like a 60(us)/40(Keystone) deal. At least the OB is fixed and is looking good again. I keep the 23RS covered here in AZ because the perpeutal sun effects are horrible - and as I said earlier we get very little rain/humidity and I doubt that has anything to do with this absolutely horrid Keystone front cap design.


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## thefulminator

When I was camping at Lake Wenatchee last year, I saw a Jayco that had obvious delamination on the rear of the unit. What really caught my attention was that it was much worse when the rear panel had been in the direct sun light for a while. Once it was in shade most of the bubbling disappeared. Chances are that the fiberglass panel had a higher expansion rate than the underlying cardboard or wood panel. The fiberglass expanded more causing the bubbles. I would suspect the same would happen on Outbacks.


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## maddog

All this talk about delamination is getting me worried. Any experiencing this with a fifth wheel. Is my 2010 329fbh going to be ok?


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## daslobo777

mmonti,

Sorry to hear about this. When I viewed your picture that is pretty much exactly what ours looked like down the front. The repair shop sent our photos to Keystone (not where we purchased trailer from either). Like DH said, they picked up the parts only. We were told warranty is only for one year and extended warranty doesn't cover delam, but they will cover parts due to customer satisfaction. Our TT is a 2007 repaired in Dec. 2009. I would make sure you get your pictures to them as the repair shop we went to heard back pretty much immediately. That big bubble down the front you have is what we thought may end up cracking in our AZ sun and then water will get in. We are still in favor of the cover because if no cover then the entire camper's fiberglass would be destroyed.

Good luck and don't give up.

Cristy


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## MJRey

That's terrible and I would hope Keystone will step up and do the right thing but I doubt it. I've got a small problem around one of the lights because the fools couldn't be bothered to caulk the top of the marker lights. It was out of warranty before it was evident and Keystone said "tough luck". When people see some of the bowing (not really delamination) I just tell them it's a Keystone product feature. Maybe I'll cost Keystone a few sales and I personally will probably not buy another Outback or any Keystone product for my next trailer purchase. I would suggest a couple of options that would be worth pursuing.

1. Get an estimate for repairs and sue Keystone and the dealer where you purchased the trailer in Small Claims Court. It's easy to do and you have a decent chance of winning and you'll get their attention.

2. Make a catchy YouTube video showing the problem and see if the negative publicity get's Keystones attention. We could even submit all the pictures from owners with problems and make a nice slideshow that dramatizes the extent of the problem. People looking online for Outback or Keystone product information will have a chance to see what they might have to deal with and think twice about a purchase. Sadly the only thing a company like Keystone cares about is the bottom line and if that means you get stuck with a defective product that's just too bad for you. They talk a nice game on their website about their dedication to quality but when people see what's really happening a drop in sales might just get their attention. I've seen some companies take a real beating from these homemade videos when customers get treated badly.


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## thefulminator

Sounds like time to get Good Sam involved. RV companies hate the bad press when stuff like this shows up in their magazine.


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## mmonti

Well I picked up my Outback from the dealer this afternoon, Funny thing cause it rained last night and this morning, and there is no additional warping or bubbling. I even spoke to the service guy about the voids in the sealant like Keystone said and he even told me that he already explained to them that there wasn't any breaks in the sealant. Its water tight, all I can say is it appears to be a design flaw. Ill keep everyone posted on the outcome. Some people have mentioned contacting Good Sam and their Action Line, and also going up the chain at Keystone even a few requests for a class action lawsuit. Just nice to have it back at this point. I feel its safer with me anyways.

Mike


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## thefulminator

Even if the dealer told keystone about the sealant being in good condition, have the dealer put it in writing for you. You may need it for proof in the future.


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## TwoElkhounds

I am so sorry to see what has happened to your trailer and how Keystone is treating you. To me it is pretty clear, this is an unacceptable defect in the manufacture of your trailer. I don't see any way you could have made this level of delamination happen. If you did absolutely nothing to the trailer in the 15 months you owned the trailer, this should not happen. Even if you covered the trailer with 6 mil plastic in Florida, this is unacceptable. The trailer should be more robust than this.

I am extremely disappointed in Keystone and ashamed to own an Outback after seeing this. I really have to question the integrity of this company now. Every one of us should send an email to Keystone and demand they repair this trailer. I will never buy another one of their products if they do not step up and deal with this.

I am really PO'ed about this!!









DAN


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## daslobo777

TwoElkhounds said:


> I am so sorry to see what has happened to your trailer and how Keystone is treating you. To me it is pretty clear, this is an unacceptable defect in the manufacture of your trailer. I don't see any way you could have made this level of delamination happen. If you did absolutely nothing to the trailer in the 15 months you owned the trailer, this should not happen. Even if you covered the trailer with 6 mil plastic in Florida, this is unacceptable. The trailer should be more robust than this.
> 
> I am extremely disappointed in Keystone and ashamed to own an Outback after seeing this. I really have to question the integrity of this company now. Every one of us should send an email to Keystone and demand they repair this trailer. I will never buy another one of their products if they do not step up and deal with this.
> 
> I am really PO'ed about this!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DAN


I agree Dan! I am so glad to see someone else fired up over this. Since our delam, I said there were cheaper trailers out there and this isn't happening to them. When we were told well, your trailer is going to be three years old.....I was like even if we did nothing should this happen to a trailer that soon. I am still very disappointed in Keystone despite we got parts paid as I can't see putting 1300.00 into this trailer every couple years for delam problems. Actually, add another 1,000 that they picked up as that won't happen again. It seems most people after repairs are saying the delam will return....I don't get it and why as consumers we accept this type of product and treatment. Cristy


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## mmonti

I agree, the problem needs to be fixed. There are very strict warranty laws and governing agencies when it comes to auto's but something that can legally be considered a 2nd home, and sometimes with prices of an actual home get a 1 year warranty!! Am I to understand that a 23K purchase should fall apart after 1 year and I just go oh well and go get another? And with no backup from the manufacturer, I wasn't even offered a solution to the problem, not even a hey others in this same situation have done this or that. Keystone really needs to own up to the problem and stand behind their product. My posting on rv.net really got some people fired up. I hope that Keystone reads all the comments that are in that post. Take a moment and check it out and if your a member post a comment http://www.rv.net/forums/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/23568194.cfm

I did go to my RV storage today, I brought my ladder and took some really detailed pics, Ill post them soon, there are no breaks in any sealants anywhere along that seam, or on the lights, the sealant joints are intact. They aren't the prettiest seams but there aren't any breaks. I also took a video but the quality is pretty bad, might have to go back and get another tomorrow or Saturday.

I have already spoken to someone about cutting and bending some aluminum panels for me this afternoon. There was a post here awhile back where someone did the same thing. I have it bookmarked on another computer, took me awhile to find that thread. Im feeling that I dont want Keystone to repair this with another sheet of Filon, they should pay to have it repaired correctly so it wont happen again.

I know why your all so riled up, just like me you really like your Outback and its very sad that a company like Keystone who you've essentially put your trust in buy making such a huge investment in one of their products wont stand behind it.

I will keep everyone posted on the progress and outcome.

Mike


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## mmonti

Update:

I guess I should of posted an update sooner. Out of sight and out of mind, plus Ive been busy with work... anyways

Keystone ponied up for the parts, I had to pay the dealer for the labor. $600 bucks later I got a new skin on the front of my Outback. The dealer really did a great job, it actually looks a lot better than when I bought it brand new! This all happened maybe 2 weeks after I picked up my trailer originally from the dealer. I took it home and washed it and took it to the storage lot. I'm afraid to put the cover on it. Dealer says I shouldn't worry as that didn't cause the problem. Anyways that was the outcome of the ordeal. Ill post some pics of the repairs when I get a chance.

Thanks everyone for your support.

Mike


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## Scoutr2

Wow! That is the worst case of delam I've seen posted here. And some have been able to get restitution from Keystone - but that was when the economy was humming along at a fast pace. These days are different.

That said, though, there is no way Keystone should have given you the answer they did by just looking at those pictures. Did your dealer look at it and contact them, or did you? Did they check the sealant that they say was "cracked?" And if they claim that it was because you covered the trailer (which I doubt caused the problem), then you should ask where the disclaimer is located in the documentation for your trailer. Did Keystone or the dealer tell you that you shouldn't cover the trailer? Did the dealer sell you the cover?

I'd give Keystone a chance to change their minds and if they don't - get a good lawyer. For the money we pay for these trailers, the exterior (which should be designed to withstand the elements - duh!), the fiberglass should stay put for more than a couple years! Any reasonable thinking person would expect that, and product liability laws reflect that thinking.

I know I will look elsewhere for a trailer next time around. I've heard too many horror stories about delam of Outbacks! That's what this website is all about - sharing information. (Does Keystone even worry about what is said and shown here?!)

Good luck,

Mike


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## russlg

My '05 has been covered for the last 4 months, I plan on uncovering it this weekend as it is supposed to be 70 degrees up here in New England.... I am in hopes of finding NO delam...
I am ASE certified in collision repair and restored a few Corvettes, prior to being a parts guy. From the looks of it, front cap replacement looks pretty easy. Remove the sealer on the roof to access the screws, remove the front side trim to access that sealer and screws and remove the lighting. Then remove the front cap... I am sure there is a little more to it than that but it can't be any worse than that....


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## ftwildernessguy

Just uncovered the Outback after a particularly harsh January and February in Pennsylvania - covered with an Adco cover and virtually no damage or signs of delamination. So much for the theory that covering causes delamination.


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## bassplunker

ftwildernessguy said:


> Just uncovered the Outback after a particularly harsh January and February in Pennsylvania - covered with an Adco cover and virtually no damage or signs of delamination. So much for the theory that covering causes delamination.


I had bad delamination on my '05 Outback 21RS and even though my trailer was 3 years old Outback picked up the whole cost after Mike Thompson's in Colton sent them pictures. As for heat causing delamination, I moved to Palm Springs 3 years ago and my trailers sits in 100 plus all the time (not uncommon to be in the 115 degrees and sometimes 120's and no sign of delamination coming back. I also have a brand new Adco cover I bought years ago but never useds. Anyone want to buy it?







I know, wrong section, but too lazy to post another.


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## MattS

We just uncovered ours in upstate NY after going into storage in late August. The front cap looks awful- delamination. We are new to this area and so we'll be looking into finding a reputable dealer to get this looked at. Very disheartening.


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## CamperAndy

ftwildernessguy said:


> We just uncovered ours in upstate NY after going into storage in late August. The front cap looks awful- delamination. We are new to this area and so we'll be looking into finding a reputable dealer to get this looked at. Very disheartening.


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## ftwildernessguy

CamperAndy said:


> We just uncovered ours in upstate NY after going into storage in late August. The front cap looks awful- delamination. We are new to this area and so we'll be looking into finding a reputable dealer to get this looked at. Very disheartening.


[/quote]

True, however if there was a cause and effect relationship, it would happen in every case of covering, and would never happen in trailers left uncovered, which has not been the case.


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## russlg

Uncovered mine on Saturday after 4 1/2 months and no delam and the trailer looks just as I left it...


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## MattS

So the bottom line is that we're seeing no direct link between covering and not covering? Has anyone had this repaired to their satisfaction? Are we thinking this will happen again if repaired? How long has anyone left it unrepaired and what happens with that route?


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## CamperAndy

MattS said:


> So the bottom line is that we're seeing no direct link between covering and not covering? Has anyone had this repaired to their satisfaction? Are we thinking this will happen again if repaired? How long has anyone left it unrepaired and what happens with that route?


Personally I think there is a link but again not all storage conditions are the same. There have been plenty of people that have had the issue repaired satisfactorily and as for how long it lasts depends on how well the job was done plus other local weather factors. There are plenty of people on here that have 6 and 7 year old trailers with no issues.

If left unrepaired there is no cause for concern unless the original issue was due to a water leak that is not corrected. Then you can have mold issues and a much bigger repair when the time comes.


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## Bennitt5

I just uncovered my 2008 32BHDSLE over the weekend and found a couple of small spots of Delamination not to bad but yet a few small spots. hopefully I can get them fixed before they get any larger.


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## 1m4w

Beware of covers,I purchased my 07 OB six months ago and put a cover on it three months ago.Just in three months jan to end march in south fl. Delamination has occurred. There is a problem, cover or no cover. My sister loves my
camper but after seeing the problem with mine,she is looking for another model


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## MattS

I'm just sick over this. I called a dealer today and set up a time to bring it in- w/o seeing it, based on what they have seen in the past they said it will be about $3000!!!!! I love our Outback, but I think I foresee it going down the road soon....my husband is going to flip out!

(posted my Mrs Matt S)


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## Patty

I think the link is the cover and the heat. People that live in the cold and cover aren't having problems. I haven't heard of any delam on an uncovered trailer. I checked my delamination over the weekend. There seems to be very small cracks in the wrinkles. Mine is more wrinkles than bubbles. I think it has been like this for a while and I think it will need to be fixed before too long. I just bought it used. I will probably have to foot the bill myself. It was bought originally at Mike Thompsons in Orange Cty. I might have talked them down more if I had known about the problem. I love the layout and everything else about my 23rs.


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## MattS

Ours was in Upstate NY when the delam happened- not too much heat there this past winter! Prior to that it was in California for 3 years.


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## CamperAndy

MattS said:


> Ours was in Upstate NY when the delam happened- not too much heat there this past winter! Prior to that it was in California for 3 years.


Last August when you put the cover on could be another story on the temperature if that is the contributing issue when under cover. I think you will also need moisture to go along with the temperature.


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## MattS

true enough. Unfortunately, I guess it doesn't matter at this point why it happened, we just have to figure out what to do about it....


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## CamperAndy

Actually knowing why it happens is the $64,000 question. That way the issue will be preventable. I have never covered my trailers and have always been good about inspections and cleaning and never had an issue. I hope to stay that way.


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## MattS

You're right, I'm just thinking about our immediate problem, I guess. My inlaws have a montana, keep it in vermont, covered, for years, no problem. We cover ours once and it goes down.....


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## bassplunker

[quote name='Patty' date='07 April 2010 - 11:45 PM' timestamp='1270701935' post='379344']

My previous post mentioned I had never covered my Trailer and the whole front was all bubbled because of Delamination. Outback also fixed it for free even though it was way out of warranty. As for covers, I don't cover mine because I've been told covers aren't good on trailers because wind rubs them against the trailer and wears off paint(and it gets very windy here in Palm Spings. I think delamination is so chronic Keystone should have a 10 year warranty for it.


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## outdrs1

This is exactly why I will never own an Outback again. Keystone service sucks, and the trailer falls apart after a year. Keystone does not care for the customer after the sale.......


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## CamperAndy

outdrs1 said:


> This is exactly why I will never own an Outback again. Keystone service sucks, and the trailer falls apart after a year. Keystone does not care for the customer after the sale.......


This is not a true statement, well other then you not owning a Outback again, that is up to you. There are plenty of people that have had great service and there are those that have had bad service, more of a dealer issue then a Keystone issue. If you think that your current trailer will only result in great service you may be dreaming. As for falling apart after one year, well I haven't seen that yet. What is the basis for that statement?

Based on this link to the sale of your trailer it would indicate you didn't have an issue with it.

Sale of Outdrs1 Outback trailer


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## AZOutback Hunter

Hello there,
I just discovered my 2004 Keystone outback got the same exact delaminating on the front cap. Wow this is really weird because my trailer delamination looks exactly like that of yours. 
I live here in AZ and I covered my trailer with a travel trailer cover for the first time this summer cause I wanted it to be out of the hot heat. After one month being under this cover I went to prep the trailer for an upcoming trip and my front cap look just like your pictures, except mine had cracks on the fiberglass from it warping.
I called several dealerships today and all they could say is I had to bring it to them to get an estimate for repairs. Said it probably gonna cost about $3000.00 to replace the entire front cap. 
I also called keystone and they said it was out of warranty and all I could do was submit some photos to them for them to review this delamination. 
What did you do to get yours repaired???
Thanks for your post,
Carl


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## Tyvekcat

wow! That's a bummer. Your decal looks better than mine.







Last year, or year before last I put a tarp over the front of ours figuring to save the decal. It covered about the first quarter, to about the door and across the roof. I had it on there in the spring April-May to try and protect it from the sun.
Heck I was lucky a thunderstorm came by and blew the tarp into the next county. It started to delaminate near the top on both sides of the front. Small like a orange peel texture. Figured I would live with it. Funny thing is after about a month, back in the sun, it smoothed itself out. 
It ain't to bad now, and kinda hard to find. Always kept the joints sealed.
Never found the tarp. 
sorry about the delam. Its almost like roll of the dice.


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## Tangooutback

My 25RSS is five years old and has been sitting under the sun through its entire life here in hot and humid Texas gulf coast. So far, no delamination. Looking at the pictures and reading this thread make me a tad nervous. Now, I am a little sorry not buying a trailer with aluminum skin.

Does this delamination only happen with Keystone trailers? what about other brands?

I think it definitely is a good idea to post some pictures/videos on Youtube. If I had read this thread before I purchased the OB, I definitely would run away from Keystone trailers as fast as I can.


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## CamperAndy

Tangooutback said:


> My 25RSS is five years old and has been sitting under the sun through its entire life here in hot and humid Texas gulf coast. So far, no delamination. Looking at the pictures and reading this thread make me a tad nervous. Now, I am a little sorry not buying a trailer with aluminum skin.
> 
> Does this delamination only happen with Keystone trailers? what about other brands?
> 
> I think it definitely is a good idea to post some pictures/videos on Youtube. If I had read this thread before I purchased the OB, I definitely would run away from Keystone trailers as fast as I can.


Every trailer manufacture that uses the Filon skin has the issue and that is most of them.


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## ACPIII

I kept my camper covered for about three months and boy was I surprised when I uncovered it this summer. Yes, I had the bubbles on the front of my camper. I'm really disappointed because I like my Outback and it is out of warranty. Guess I'll just have to live with it untill I get a new camper. Good luck to the rest of you Outback owners and maybe this won't happen to you.


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## duggy

I keep seeing a trend here. When they're covered in the heat, that seems to be when the trouble starts.

As a home renovation contractor, I've seen how intense heat buildup from the sun can be. Years ago I installed an aluminum storm door on a house, and the heat buildup between the doors was so much that the plastic trim around the window on the steel entry door actually melted and sagged down the door between the screws.

I think it would be scary how hot it could get under a trailer cover on a hot, sunny day. I'm guessing that the glue melts, and/or the filon expands and buckles in the heat. Up at the top of the curved front is where the suns rays would be most direct.

Just an observation,

Doug


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## joy-rick

When one of our members reports a delamination problem it is scary and it looms large in all of our psyches. But, I wonder if anybody has taken a poll, or otherwise determined just how many Outbacks actually have experienced delamination problems? Does anybody know how big a problem this really is? Obviously, if you're the one with the delaminated Outback the problem is huge. But, in reality, I wonder what the actual probability is that any one of us will have this problem. Can anyone shed light on this?

Rick


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## duggy

joy-rick said:


> When one of our members reports a delamination problem it is scary and it looms large in all of our psyches. But, I wonder if anybody has taken a poll, or otherwise determined just how many Outbacks actually have experienced delamination problems? Does anybody know how big a problem this really is? Obviously, if you're the one with the delaminated Outback the problem is huge. But, in reality, I wonder what the actual probability is that any one of us will have this problem. Can anyone shed light on this?
> 
> Rick


While I'm sure lots of members on this forum have seen more trailers than me, I have yet to see an Outback with delamination (out of maybe 20 or 30 I've run across). I have seen a few other brands with some delamination issues, but they were down low in the front cap, and I'm guessing they were the result of water infiltration. The cases in this thread seem to be higher up on the cap, which makes me think they are heat related. Maybe that's one of the good things about living in Canada!

My last trailer was an 05 Surveyor, and I'd never even heard of delamination on trailers, until I had a salesman ask if mine had any. Since then I've kept my eyes open for it, and at least around here, it seems to be very rare.

Hopefully I'll never experience it first hand.

Doug


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## TimbaJack

I live in Mississippi and we have very hot and humid summers and I dont intend to cover ours when we get it (still waiting!). I plan on keeping it under a metal carport at our house. I think the cover contributes to the delam problem in certain areas under certain conditions, especially if there is a water leak or if something isnt sealed properly. I recall keystone having issues with adhesive in 2006 or 2007 when a lot of these problems popped up. I also heard keystone made a thicker front cap on newer models (maybe to help with the delam issue?)


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## N7OQ

You know until Keystone stops using the paper mache for their front cap this problem will continue. How long will take for them to realize this material is crap. I've had my front replaced once and I have some lumps in my new cap but it has not changed it the last 2 years. If I have to replace my front cap again I'm using sheet metal.


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## Scoutr2

duggy said:


> I keep seeing a trend here. When they're covered in the heat, that seems to be when the trouble starts.
> 
> As a home renovation contractor, I've seen how intense heat buildup from the sun can be. Years ago I installed an aluminum storm door on a house, and the heat buildup between the doors was so much that the plastic trim around the window on the steel entry door actually melted and sagged down the door between the screws.
> 
> I think it would be scary how hot it could get under a trailer cover on a hot, sunny day. I'm guessing that the glue melts, and/or the filon expands and buckles in the heat. Up at the top of the curved front is where the suns rays would be most direct.
> 
> Just an observation,
> 
> Doug


I agree, Doug. I saw the same pattern as I read through the thread. Our Outback dealer, as well as the dealer that sold us our Coleman popups both told us the same thing - do not cover them. They restrict the trailer's ability to breathe and can cause problems. They are built to withstand the elements.

We took delivery of our 2007 trailer in August of 2006, so we've had it a full four seasons. So far (knock on filon), we've had no delamination. Decals fading and peeling - that's another story. Unfortunately, the fact that you covered the trailer is probably going to make it difficult to get Keystone to fix your problem. They will most likely claim that all would be fine, had you not covered it. That's just my opinion and I have no insight into their decision process. But I do work on the service side of the business for a major heavy equipment manufacturer and I have some insight into why mfrs. do what they do. All mfrs. also have "good will" warranty dollars built into their budget. With calm, reasonable dialogue, you might be able to shake some of those $$$ loose to cover some of the expense of replacement.

Again, just my $.02. Good luck.

Mike


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## butter

Wow is this information really hard to believe. I feel for everyone who has experienced this delamination issue. I just recently drove from Alabama to Ohio to purchase a new 2011 230rs. I am excited about the camper as well is my family. It is our first camper and I really felt I did my homework prior to the purchase. If I would have read this prior to my purchase I would have had second thoughts. It does seem to me there is a common link between the heat and covers. I am sure there are those who have experienced this issue who have not used a cover who live in a cooler climate. I have my new camper in an RV storage unit that does have overhead protection. I don't believe I will be using a cover however I have wondered as I have read this information if there could be some commonality with cleaning products or process. I have seen chemical do very strange things to materials due to vapor penetration or exposure. I have also wondered about pressure washers or hard elbow grease scrubbing, removing bugs.

Again I feel for those of you who have experienced this issue and with hopes I can learn how to prevent this situation. If it is an issue with the manufacturing process it may be as one stated, luck of the draw. If it is luck of the draw and Keystone does not address the issue, there will still be many people just like myself who make the purchase without the insight. I did not read this forum until after I made the purchase. I did review YouTube and if the information would have been there with the Keystone Outback title I would have watched the video.


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## CdnOutback

When I purchased my previous TT, the dealer told me that I should not cover it anytime because it will hold in the moisture/condensation. He also mentioned that the heat buildup under the cover would cause additional problems. We used to cover everything to keep the snow off but now I just leave it and have never had a problem.


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## JRP

I went to pull my Outback out of storage on 9/1/2010 and I noticed this same problem on the front of my trailer. I live in Kern county in California and don't ever cover my trailer, so I don't think it has anything to do with covering the trailer. I think it has to do more with heat than anything else, It gets as hot as 110 here in Kern County. I am going to have my dealer look at my trailer and see if they can get Keystone to do anything about it.I also cannot find any cracks in the seams.


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## Tangooutback

Is this delamination something unique to Keystone trailers or is it also common among other manufactures?

Do you all think on our future purchase we should buy aluminum skin trailer instead? One thing for sure aluminum skin can be repainted to look new. Can we repaint fiberglass or does it have to be gel coated?


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## Seminole

Just got my 2004 28rss back from the shop for front cap delam repair. I was a rookie 3 and a half years ago when I bought it from an individual. Didn't know what to look for. When I look back back at the pictures of the camper when I first bought it, there is clear delamination on the front cap. The whole thing became wavy and would buckle under the effects of highway speeds and hot/humid Florida weather. Learned a valuable and expensive lesson. The delam was caused by water entering the top marker lights. Once inside the light, there was no place for it to go. The bottom of the lights were sealed, so water filled the light and seeped in. My repair guy showed me the entire front cap..........rotten with cheap paper backing. He fixed it using real wood and metal backing. Also had to replace rotted interior wall section at the front of two of the bunks. Expensive, but $2600 wasn't too bad for front cap as well as interior wall.


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## Tangooutback

Seminole said:


> Just got my 2004 28rss back from the shop for front cap delam repair. I was a rookie 3 and a half years ago when I bought it from an individual. Didn't know what to look for. When I look back back at the pictures of the camper when I first bought it, there is clear delamination on the front cap. The whole thing became wavy and would buckle under the effects of highway speeds and hot/humid Florida weather. Learned a valuable and expensive lesson. The delam was caused by water entering the top marker lights. Once inside the light, there was no place for it to go. The bottom of the lights were sealed, so water filled the light and seeped in. My repair guy showed me the entire front cap..........rotten with cheap paper backing. He fixed it using real wood and metal backing. Also had to replace rotted interior wall section at the front of two of the bunks. Expensive, but $2600 wasn't too bad for front cap as well as interior wall.


 This must be an independent shop, not a Keystone dealer..?


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## Bugduat

Tangooutback said:


> Just got my 2004 28rss back from the shop for front cap delam repair. I was a rookie 3 and a half years ago when I bought it from an individual. Didn't know what to look for. When I look back back at the pictures of the camper when I first bought it, there is clear delamination on the front cap. The whole thing became wavy and would buckle under the effects of highway speeds and hot/humid Florida weather. Learned a valuable and expensive lesson. The delam was caused by water entering the top marker lights. Once inside the light, there was no place for it to go. The bottom of the lights were sealed, so water filled the light and seeped in. My repair guy showed me the entire front cap..........rotten with cheap paper backing. He fixed it using real wood and metal backing. Also had to replace rotted interior wall section at the front of two of the bunks. Expensive, but $2600 wasn't too bad for front cap as well as interior wall.


 This must be an independent shop, not a Keystone dealer..?
[/quote]


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## Bugduat

I just got my 2006 Sydney Outback 30RLS out of storage and it has both front and rear delamination. We have contacted the Manufacturer and they have instructed us to take it to a local dealer and have pictures taken of the problem areas and then send them the pictures for evaluation. Has anyone out there gotten a positive response for Keystone?


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## Bearhog

This goes without saying but "check your seams folks". I was cleaning my roof after a trip to a wooded area and as I was doing my usual inspections, I found multi cracks along the seam/molding that fasten the rubber roofing and the leading edge of the front cap. Also found two very small puntures in the very highest portion of the cap its self. This is a 2011 trailer and its already been in for replacement of both doors. this is in addition to a fridge that will bearly hold 40 degrees and a TV that "pixel's out" on a station just 30 miles away.

Love the trailer, hate the quality. I just hope I have a good dealer. its Camping world by the way.


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## CamperAndy

Bearhog said:


> a fridge that will bearly hold 40 degrees


It is only designed to operate at 36 to 38 degrees. There are things you can do to improve the cooling but you are more or less right where the fridge was designed to operate. Have you posted a stand alone topic about the fridge cooling?


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## Bearhog

I have not posted a stand alone topic but that is a great idea. I just found out today that Outbackers was still running. I love the site and have already received a great benefit from the members in the short time I've been reading and posting.

Thanks again for the suggestion.


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## Kevin K

The new trailers are now coming with a fiberglass - not filon - front cap. They sell it as an upgrade under the 10th anniverssary package but my guess is this is to eliminate the delam so many here have experienced. I for one am glad mine has the fiberglass cap!

Good luck with your dealings with Keystone. The simple fact that they are now shipped with fiberglass fronts seems to be an acknowledgement that they can't build them consistenly enough to prevent the delamination problem.


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## BUTCH

Check this out.
I was floored when i uncovered mine 2 days ago. It's A 2006 23rs that i bought in July of 2010. And I live in PA. The outback manufacture told me it was due to water leakage.The dealer were i bought the camper from inspected the entire unit when i bought it. They said all is good. My wife and i used it 3 times last year and then i winterized it due to her hip replacement
Before i parked it for the winter I went over all the roof seams vents and all lights with a fine tooth comb. there was no cracked seams in the sealer, the rubber roof was in top shape. And after finding the declamation i just looked again and there is still no cracks or bad seals any were
The inside of the camper is perfect.not a spot any were. One would think if there was a moister problem some were you would c it on the inside as well. 
At this point i'm a little up set to say the least

ps: i tried to up load pictures but they didn't show up.


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## Tangooutback

Butch, I know the pain. I have same problem with my 2005 25RSS. It delaminates around the top right light. I checked and could not find any leak around the light or inside the trailer. I went ahead and recaulked it. The delamination still spreads out further down from the light area. I don't know what I am to do next. Someone here on this website had replaced the entire front cap with sheet aluminum. That would be bullet proof repair, but the job is way too big for me plus I live in a place where the neighborhood Taliban would send me love notes and threatening fatwa if the trailer is parked in front of the house for more than 48 hours.


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## proffff2

battalionchief3 said:


> I think a class action law suit is in order for Keystone. Thats insane. Its not that old. Their are way too many campers that happens to. They should at least split the cost but they say it will just happen again.


I agree, I have a 2009 Outback Sydney Edition. I just noticed that the Front Panel Fiberglass is starting to bubble. I have access to lawyers.

Don Dinse
Williamsburg, Virgina
Senior FF/EMT
IAFF Service Representative/Local 2498 President
757 532 3337


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## CamperAndy

proffff2 said:


> I think a class action law suit is in order for Keystone. Thats insane. Its not that old. Their are way too many campers that happens to. They should at least split the cost but they say it will just happen again.


I agree, I have a 2009 Outback Sydney Edition. I just noticed that the Front Panel Fiberglass is starting to bubble. I have access to lawyers.

Don Dinse
Williamsburg, Virgina
Senior FF/EMT
IAFF Service Representative/Local 2498 President
757 532 3337
[/quote]

We are not going to use Outbackers to start a class action law suit. If you want to do that start your own web site.


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## proffff2

My name is Don Dinse and I live in Williamsburg, Virginia. I bought my NEW 2009 Keystone Outback Sydney Edition 290 RLS from Dixie RV Dealer in Newport News, Virginia. I am a professional fire fighter/EMT of 23 years. I take care of my RV like i take care of my vehicle. I Keep them looking like brand new for many years.

This is my 5th RV and I have NEVER been more disapointed with any purchase I have ever made then my Outback. In the first year the shower stall leaked. Had to fix it myself. Then the brakes failed due to the brake wires being cut to short and braking when the unite was built.

Then withnin the second year, the decals started to peal off and all Keystone did was send me more decals.

Now just 3 years later, the Fiberglass front panal is delaminating.

I plan on contacting the dealer today to see what they will offer.

Don Dinse
Williamsburg, VA
757 532 3337
[email protected]


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## miboje

This is so very unfortunate on so many levels. We were planning to purchase one of the outbacks with the rear slide, but now I can see that our purchase would not be protected in the event of delamination of the unit. What is sad is that Keystone did not do something as soon as they became aware that this was a problem. Is it possible to prevent this from happening? We simply cannot afford a 2011 or newer unit to avoid it.


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## duggy

miboje said:


> This is so very unfortunate on so many levels. We were planning to purchase one of the outbacks with the rear slide, but now I can see that our purchase would not be protected in the event of delamination of the unit. What is sad is that Keystone did not do something as soon as they became aware that this was a problem. Is it possible to prevent this from happening? We simply cannot afford a 2011 or newer unit to avoid it.


Delamination isn't limited to Keystone products, or Outbacks in particular. It can happen on any brand of trailer that uses this method of construction. That said, there do seem to be a fair number of Outbacks in the mid 2000 range that have experienced delamination on the curved front. So far, just entering our third season, we have no signs of trouble on our 2011. I do think the fiberglass front caps are the ultimate answer to the cap delamination problem, as well as looking great and giving better aerodynamics. If we ever do have a problem with ours, I'm hoping there's a way to retrofit a fiberglass cap. Probably wishful thinking.

As for the other quality problems that Don Dinse has experienced, it sounds like he got a bad one. On the other hand, after two seasons and close to 100 nights of use, we've had no warranty work, and only a few minor adjustments that I've taken care of myself.


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## miboje

duggy said:


> This is so very unfortunate on so many levels. We were planning to purchase one of the outbacks with the rear slide, but now I can see that our purchase would not be protected in the event of delamination of the unit. What is sad is that Keystone did not do something as soon as they became aware that this was a problem. Is it possible to prevent this from happening? We simply cannot afford a 2011 or newer unit to avoid it.


Delamination isn't limited to Keystone products, or Outbacks in particular. It can happen on any brand of trailer that uses this method of construction. That said, there do seem to be a fair number of Outbacks in the mid 2000 range that have experienced delamination on the curved front. So far, just entering our third season, we have no signs of trouble on our 2011. I do think the fiberglass front caps are the ultimate answer to the cap delamination problem, as well as looking great and giving better aerodynamics. If we ever do have a problem with ours, I'm hoping there's a way to retrofit a fiberglass cap. Probably wishful thinking.

As for the other quality problems that Don Dinse has experienced, it sounds like he got a bad one. On the other hand, after two seasons and close to 100 nights of use, we've had no warranty work, and only a few minor adjustments that I've taken care of myself.
[/quote]e
Agreed. I think we will be looking for an all aluminum exterior camper in light of that. It's too bad Keystone waited so long to do something that hopefully addresses the problem. We just can't swing a 2011 to avoid it, which is a shame. I was totally in love with this one.


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## CamperAndy

miboje said:


> Agreed. I think we will be looking for an all aluminum exterior camper in light of that. It's too bad Keystone waited so long to do something that hopefully addresses the problem. We just can't swing a 2011 to avoid it, which is a shame. I was totally in love with this one.


Good luck but please don't think that you will have no issues with one of the all aluminum trailers. I recommend you pick the floor plan you really like and go with it. If you inspect it closely, carry out regular maintenance and avoid the most common causes of de lamination then you will have a trouble free trailer for years to come.


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## ED_RN

Thought I had gotten lucky, not so. Delam now starting to show on my front cap as well. Live in So Cal so very little rain and usually low humidity. Wax yearly but don't use a cover. Sun is hard on the sealant so I check it often. I guess it is inevitable. Think duck tape is the answer but at the same time being sure not to cover up the Outback or Keystone logo's.


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## miboje

CamperAndy said:


> Agreed. I think we will be looking for an all aluminum exterior camper in light of that. It's too bad Keystone waited so long to do something that hopefully addresses the problem. We just can't swing a 2011 to avoid it, which is a shame. I was totally in love with this one.


Good luck but please don't think that you will have no issues with one of the all aluminum trailers. I recommend you pick the floor plan you really like and go with it. If you inspect it closely, carry out regular maintenance and avoid the most common causes of de lamination then you will have a trouble free trailer for years to come.
[/quote]
Yes, I figure that anything carries a potential for problems down the road. 
I've read through every post in this thread, and I'm just not sure I've concluded for certain what the cause(s) are or how to prevent it if we would go with an older Outback. What do you suggest?


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## Tangooutback

miboje said:


> Agreed. I think we will be looking for an all aluminum exterior camper in light of that. It's too bad Keystone waited so long to do something that hopefully addresses the problem. We just can't swing a 2011 to avoid it, which is a shame. I was totally in love with this one.


Good luck but please don't think that you will have no issues with one of the all aluminum trailers. I recommend you pick the floor plan you really like and go with it. If you inspect it closely, carry out regular maintenance and avoid the most common causes of de lamination then you will have a trouble free trailer for years to come.
[/quote]
Yes, I figure that anything carries a potential for problems down the road. 
I've read through every post in this thread, and I'm just not sure I've concluded for certain what the cause(s) are or how to prevent it if we would go with an older Outback. What do you suggest?
[/quote]

Mine is getting worse. The delamination now spreads further away from the original spot around the upper light. I am pondering on taking it to my car shop and see if they would be willing to replace the front cap with sheet metal and paint it. 
The other option is to take a huge loss selling this piece of junk and replace it with an all aluminum Airstream....no worry about roof leak and cap delamination.


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## Bill & Kate

We had a 2005 Jayco JayFeather LGT 29N before this trailer and had not delamination issues, but there were two Outbacks of similar vintage in our storage facility, and both have severe delamination on the front. Made me think twice when a fantastic deal on our 2012 Outback 277RL came along. To make a long story short, we did the deal on the Outback, and hope the fiberglass nosepiece is the solution. I know to check the caulking on a regular basis, and we keep it covered, so I am hoping for the best.

By the way Tangooutback, my best buddy has a 10 year old Airstream, and he is always chasing seam leaks. He lives in Florida, so maybe the heat cause is to expand and contract a lot?


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## Tangooutback

Bill & Kate said:


> We had a 2005 Jayco JayFeather LGT 29N before this trailer and had not delamination issues, but there were two Outbacks of similar vintage in our storage facility, and both have severe delamination on the front. Made me think twice when a fantastic deal on our 2012 Outback 277RL came along. To make a long story short, we did the deal on the Outback, and hope the fiberglass nosepiece is the solution. I know to check the caulking on a regular basis, and we keep it covered, so I am hoping for the best.
> 
> By the way Tangooutback, my best buddy has a 10 year old Airstream, and he is always chasing seam leaks. He lives in Florida, so maybe the heat cause is to expand and contract a lot?


I have a 32 years old Airstream, which I paid 1.2K for four years ago. I put it up 7' above ground on posts at my farm. It is my hunting lodge. So far it holds up really well. It had a tiny leak on one seam and I easily fixed it with caulk used for aluminum gutter. It took quite a beating with broken branches and what not falling on the roof. I have no doubt a rubber roof would have been punctured and leaked like no tomorrow.


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## Tangooutback

What do you think about replacing the delaminated front with 1/4" plywood and apply couple of coats of fiberglass on top of the plywood before painting it? The only part I cannot figure out what to do with is the curve at the top of the front piece and how it joins with the roof.


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## proffff2

CalifRVers said:


> I wondered about the cover also..I haven't heard good things about RV covers, which is why I chose not to purchase one. I also wonder if its the design of the nose?
> 
> That's awful though and I certainly wouldn't stop at NO! Im sure there are others that will chime in, possibly even others with the same issues, I hope Keystone resolves this for you, they really should step up and take care of this for you!
> 
> Goodluck!


I had mine fixed only for it to delaminate again after 4 months...I GOT Rid of It....It was a LEMON !!!!! 2009 Outback Sydney Edition 290RLS///// Don Dinse [email protected] 757 532 3337...


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## CamperAndy

proffff2 said:


> I wondered about the cover also..I haven't heard good things about RV covers, which is why I chose not to purchase one. I also wonder if its the design of the nose?
> 
> That's awful though and I certainly wouldn't stop at NO! Im sure there are others that will chime in, possibly even others with the same issues, I hope Keystone resolves this for you, they really should step up and take care of this for you!
> 
> Goodluck!


I had mine fixed only for it to delaminate again after 4 months...I GOT Rid of It....It was a LEMON !!!!! 2009 Outback Sydney Edition 290RLS///// Don Dinse [email protected] 757 532 3337...
[/quote]

If it delaminated after 4 months it is not a lemon but a poorly done repair.


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## ortegafam

We are dealing with the same thing on our 2005 Keystone Outback trailer. We have been told it's a delamination problem with the outer skin and the thin plywood material behind it. We also keep our trailer well maintained and covered. We are attempting to address it with our insurance company, Keystone and Camping World (where we purchased our trailer). We would gladly participate in a class action lawsuit, as it is absolutely wrong that we consumers are having to pay out of pocket for these costly repairs! Any advice in resolving this matter would be greatly appreciated!

I attempted to attach photos, but kept getting error messages.


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## CamperAndy

ortegafam said:


> I attempted to attach photos, but kept getting error messages.


Photos have to be sourced on the web somewhere. They can not be directly posted from your computer. Where are you hosting the photos.


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## pk54

mmonti said:


> I posted this over at rv.net to get some feedback Im gonna post the same thing here, Im really upset that this has happened I was very happy with my Outback up until this happened. Keystone basically says so sorry cant help ya.
> 
> Ive had my Keystone Outback for approx 1 year and 5 months, preparing for my last camping trip right before Christmas, I went to my storage yard after work to pick up my trailer. As I removed the cover this is what I found. I was blown away that this had happened, Ive heard about the delamination problems with the Keystone Outbacks but was under the understanding that the issues had been corrected for newer model year trailers, Im here to tell you it hasn't been. I thought I was safe. I wish I had known about the delam issues before I bought this Outback
> 
> This is a 2008. I maintain my trailer very well, check seams, roof, Wash, Wax, I also keep it covered with an Adco cover. I immediately sent Keystone an email and also called my dealer, apparently Keystone says it was due to cracks in the sealants, based on these 4 photos that I sent them and denied any repairs, there are no cracks in my sealant or at the roof or around the lights. In the 17 months Ive owned this Ive checked all my critical seams about every 3 months. I'm very upset that Keystone wont own up to an obvious problem with the front caps delaminating on their Outbacks. This is definitely not an isolated incident and I'm positive it wont be the last one either.
> 
> Ive been looking for repair options, now Im really considering leaving it as is, ya know a lil advertising for Keystone.
> 
> What have others done with the delam on their Outbacks? Id really like to know and could use some help.
> 
> Here are the photos
> 
> Delam Pictures


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## pk54

Sorry to piggyback on your thread,but I'm new to camping and to this forum. I'm wondering if I made a mistake with the 2004 outback 28bhs I just came home with a week and a half ago. After reading a little about the delamination issues that some are having I checked mine closer. There doesn't appear to be any wrinkling or spongyness on the side which is as firm as should be. However, the nose and rear panel have a little give to the outer skin but absolutely no wrinkles. Would that be considered delamination or is that the normal feel to the nose and rear? Thanks.


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