# What You Really Need From Outbackers



## CamperAndy

I am looking for input from the members on what is really important to you. The current configuration of the site and the hosting server has created long term stability issues as you all know. If we are to remain open changes to the forum and the server are required.

So looking at the current configuration, what would you see as the most important features and what are the least important. Once we get a general idea of how to reconfigure the site to better match the members expectations, we can then make a more informed selection of hosting site.


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## wolfwood

Andy, for what it's worth: I'd like to see all of the functional and "operational" (how the mods. functions) stuff stay just the way it is. From the physical /technical standpoint, I don't care what is done (I don't understand the behind the scenes stuff, anyway). My only desire is that the site be stable. There was a time when it was not .... the site would crash, or not open to begin with, and Chat Room users (yes, there was a day) were frequently "kicked=off" several times a session. I happened to have the same experience on that new site last night. And I finally logged off....it just wasn't worth it (TO ME!) to keep struggling with it. I don't want to see that happen with Outbackers - - I'll bet you get what you pay for ...


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## bill_pfaff

The search feature
The email notice we get when someone makes a new post to a forum you are a member of
The option for getting an immediate notification when someone posts to a thread you are watching.

Thanks for looking into the possibilities. I don't know why but it seems the site has lost some of its fire. Maybe because of the winter or have we lost some of the more active players?

Anyway, thanks again for trying.

Hope all works out well for Dough.


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## CamperAndy

Wolfie, that is correct you do get what you pay for and that is the root of the question. Does the membership what us to pay for blogging or massive gallery storage or any number of other features when they add to the cost with little to minimal return when there are other options available on the web.

My thought is the database must stay intact and the server must be able to support the daily traffic for it. From there we look at the add on items to see what is really needed and/or wanted.


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## CamperAndy

bill_pfaff said:


> The search feature
> The email notice we get when someone makes a new post to a forum you are a member of
> The option for getting an immediate notification when someone posts to a thread you are watching.
> 
> Thanks for looking into the possibilities. I don't know why but it seems the site has lost some of its fire. Maybe because of the winter or have we lost some of the more active players?
> 
> Anyway, thanks again for trying.
> 
> Hope all works out well for Dough.


Bill the forum has a natural cycle for the year and even the day of the week. Winter is a slow time over all for many as the trailers are all tucked away but this time of year the demand begins to rise at a significant rate as people look to the season of rebirth called spring.

Thanks for making note of what is important to you. So that we can get a feel for the need can those that post following suggested features please chime in to the support of or not of those features. I may try to convert this to a poll once we have a few items added.


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## Nathan

My Priorities would be:

1. Posts (obviously)
2. PM's (ideally with e-mail notifications)
3. Search feature
4. Member profiles
5. Gallery (we can always use picassa or something like that if it helps)

I'm not a big blogger, never really setup the e-mail, and didn't use a lot of the other features...


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## CamperAndy

Nathan - on the pm's how large of a historical record is enough to support that function and be useful to you?


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## H2oSprayer

bill_pfaff said:


> The search feature
> The email notice we get when someone makes a new post to a forum you are a member of
> The option for getting an immediate notification when someone posts to a thread you are watching.


In my experience, these items already exist; maybe you just need to tweek your settings a bit. I agree with Wolfwood, that a stable platform that continues to be free of spam would be a great asset. In addition, I like Doug's idea of turning this into a non-profit gig. All monies raised thru subscription, donations, merchandise and click-thru's should sit in an account until needed for such things as hosting fees. Yup, I know this must be a huge undertaking to operate and manage great forum such as this. But when the main administrator surrounds themselves with respectful & fair moderators, many hands will make for light work. Long live Outbackers (I say with my fingers crossed).

EDIT: BTW, thanks for asking what is important to us; that is a great step forward.


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## wolfwood

I would agree with Nathan's list. I already have too many eMail possibilities so never used this one, most of the Blogs ended up being extended posts, and I don't know that anyone uses the Chat Rooms anymore.


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## Sayonara

I think that we could eliminate blogs and "outbacker" email if it helps the server.

i check out the blogs occasionally but really dont see that their used all that often. i like reading what is there but then again, there really isnt much there.

I have never used my "outbacker" email address and am not sure of how many people do.

The gallery could be reduced in scope if needed. personally, i dont use it as i have all my family pictures loaded on another server (smugmug). if i need one for my signature or a post i link to it. I think many people are setup this way or similar. Now, it is nice to be able to browse through peoples camping galleries but is there an easier way to create a link button that a mmber can assign their offsite camping gallery to so if someone wants to view their gallery they could click on the members button and be directed to the "offsite" gallery location? This button could be located under their name on the left.

if the galleries section is kept maybe a limit on the photo size could be imposed and to make it aeasier for the members, is there a way to have the site automatically rescale the picture down to this max limit?

just some thoughts.... ill continue to noodle it...


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## Sayonara

I also like nathans list as a representation of priorities. i dont need a large space to save historical PM's. maybe put a 6 mo, timeframe on it or something.


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## rdvholtwood

Andy - thanks for starting this post. It will be great to hear from everyone and what is important to them.

I believe the database is the most important - as it is a valuable resource for all us.

Site stability is another concern. As Wolfie said, we don't want server crashes. I can remember a time when Outbackers.com was up and down for a time. Doug did the right thing by finding a server that would meet our needs. That does cost money and is an important consideration for any forum.

Nothing is free! However, based on suggestions we can







the load we have!

I would very much like outbackers to remain the way it is - non-political, non- religious, non-bashing - pretty much the way it is now. That is why I enjoy this site.

I think by gathering suggestions and making some adjustments - we can keep Outbackers.com alive.

For all of you that support the site - thank you very much for your continued support!


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## Nathan

CamperAndy said:


> Nathan - on the pm's how large of a historical record is enough to support that function and be useful to you?


I was ok with the old pm size (don't remember what it was, but you just had to clean house occasionally).

If I could have a dozen pm's and have them stick around for at least 6 months, I would be happy.


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## CamperAndy

Guys for off site support for features such as photo hosting or blogs, please post links to those sites so we can take a look at them. If they can meet our needs then links to those sites will be set up for everyone to try and use.


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## CamperAndy

Chris even if we have not agreed to see things the same way recently your input is appreciated. As for tracking site support funds do you have recommendations for what would be acceptable?


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too

wolfwood said:


> Andy, for what it's worth: I'd like to see all of the functional and "operational" (how the mods. functions) stuff stay just the way it is. From the physical /technical standpoint, I don't care what is done (I don't understand the behind the scenes stuff, anyway). My only desire is that the site be stable. There was a time when it was not .... the site would crash, or not open to begin with, and Chat Room users (yes, there was a day) were frequently "kicked=off" several times a session. I happened to have the same experience on that new site last night. And I finally logged off....it just wasn't worth it (TO ME!) to keep struggling with it. I don't want to see that happen with Outbackers - - I'll bet you get what you pay for ...


what Judi said-to a T.







(she has said lots of stuff to another T (me) but THIS time she is right)


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## rdvholtwood

Nathan said:


> Nathan - on the pm's how large of a historical record is enough to support that function and be useful to you?


I was ok with the old pm size (don't remember what it was, but you just had to clean house occasionally).

If I could have a dozen pm's and have them stick around for at least 6 months, I would be happy.
[/quote]

I agree with Nathan - I receive my PM's into my regular email and there is really no need to store them on the server. If I really need to go back any further, I have them on my computer.


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too

Blogs, chat, email-all not needed. A limit on gallery pix per person. Personally I think we all really really like being able to see mods other have done so photo gallery of mods would be important in my opinion. Family photos? Vacation or Rally photos? those could be seen by the user providing a link to off site like Picasa or Photobucket or one of many others. Maybe a forum section that is set up just for people to post their link to their photos, but separate from rally info. What I mean is something like " PNW Rally Photos" , "East Coast Rally Photos", does that make sense? Then we could just post our link there. Think of the space that would save!









PM's space? Minimal for everyone, if I want to communicate with someone alot, I prefer to use email anyway.

I do like email notification of when there is a new post to something .

Search function-VERY important.

A stable non crashing site is worth the $ to me. I will pay again.

The forum continued with same rules works for me, please don't change anything.

Last but not least: smiling, laughing, bantering,learning,sharing....could all that stay?


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## clarkely

It is awesome to see this positive direction!!

I see no need for blogs or email address's - plenty of blog sites can be used by members

Photo gallery could b limited/small - plenty of photo hosting options out there to link photo's to

Nathans list was a good one

I would also like to add site stability from the standpoint that the site will be there, not trying to be negative, but two shut downs in less than two years has been a major turn off to many. I know there are always extenuating circumstances - but moving forward, i am sure that is a concern for many.

I would say as far as pay members, as a Koala member who jumped at supporting the site, i would say that designation could/should all be toned down - it lends itself to things being "clicky" or non paying feeling they dont get the same treatment.....

I have to think more about this and expand on it later.........


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## jcamp

How about trimming down the forums? There are some that get very little use, such as guys & gals corner (we all peek at the other forum anyway). General discussion could cover that. Never have seen a reply to "Outback Sightings". Personally the most important features to me are the forums. I agree with sending the photos offsite----leaner & meaner!


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## jcamp

clarkely said:


> It is awesome to see this positive direction!!
> 
> I see no need for blogs or email address's - plenty of blog sites can be used by members
> 
> Photo gallery could b limited/small - plenty of photo hosting options out there to link photo's to
> 
> Nathans list was a good one
> 
> I would also like to add site stability from the standpoint that the site will be there, not trying to be negative, but two shut downs in less than two years has been a major turn off to many. I know there are always extenuating circumstances - but moving forward, i am sure that is a concern for many.
> 
> I would say as far as pay members, as a Koala member who jumped at supporting the site, i would say that designation could/should all be toned down - it lends itself to things being "clicky" or non paying feeling they dont get the same treatment.....
> 
> I have to think more about this and expand on it later.........


I think your on to something there! But I do believe anyone who reaps the benefits of this site should contribute to it's upkeep. IMHO


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## Y-Guy

I think Nathan has a good list, I would drop the gallery due to the bandwidth cost associated with it. Photobucket, Picassa and others can take care of it. It's hard for some members to learn to post to those and then to a forum, but to keep costs down you need to look at what chews up bandwidth and storage costs. The reality is that any forum needs an income source; advertising, supporters, magazines, or a sugar daddy. My 2 cents worth...


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## ORvagabond

I concur with Y-Guy. Nathans list is good but the Gallery , although nice, can be accommodated in other ways. I also agree with Wolfie, a solid dependable basic site is important. Email, blogs, storage of PM's etc are simply not a need IMO.


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## CamperAndy

Y-Guy said:


> or a sugar daddy. My 2 cents worth...


You know any deep pockets?


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## H2oSprayer

CamperAndy said:


> Chris even if we have not agreed to see things the same way recently your input is appreciated. As for tracking site support funds do you have recommendations for what would be acceptable?


 Thanks Andy; nothing personal. I believe in leading by example and when needed; taking the higher road. In dealing with some health issues over the last year and a half, I have learned a very important life lesson; life is just too darn short for bickering. As far as suggestions for tracking site support funds, the way it is set up now, I don't have any. It is simply no business of mine, or anyone else for that matter, the financial ins and outs of Outbackers. However, as we move forward and hopefully to more of a not for profit, self-funding site, I can think of 99 other Charter Members, who quite frankly dug deep the last time it was needed and probably would again, that would love the opportunity to be more in the loop. Maybe something such as a monthly or quarterly newsletter or simply an email of the financial stability of the website, keeping the numbers "above the board" could be in order.


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## Rip

Nathans list is good


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## CamperAndy

The issue of the Koala Club , it is a tough one, the site will have to be trimmed to make it leaner and more supportable from just donations. The perks that the Koala Club provided will have to be suspended to a point to wait for stronger economic times.

I need to hear from any and all koala club members on how patience they will be with this unfortunate reality.


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## wolfwood

CamperAndy said:


> The issue of the Koala Club , it is a tough one, the site will have to be trimmed to make it leaner and more supportable from just donations. The perks that the Koala Club provided will have to be suspended to a point to wait for stronger economic times.
> 
> I need to hear from any and all koala club members on how patience they will be with this unfortunate reality.


I would be very surprised (and MAYBE I will be) if ANY of the Koala Club Members paid the $$ because of or in order to get the perks. Are they nice? Sure ... but I for one can't tell you what we get that someone else doesn't (except maybe the title under the name and the stickers). Count me in the column of "Doesn't need any perks so I can be REAL patient!".


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## jcamp

wolfwood said:


> The issue of the Koala Club , it is a tough one, the site will have to be trimmed to make it leaner and more supportable from just donations. The perks that the Koala Club provided will have to be suspended to a point to wait for stronger economic times.
> 
> I need to hear from any and all koala club members on how patience they will be with this unfortunate reality.


I would be very surprised (and MAYBE I will be) if ANY of the Koala Club Members paid the $$ because of or in order to get the perks. Are they nice? Sure ... but I for one can't tell you what we get that someone else doesn't (except maybe the title under the name and the stickers). Count me in the column of "Doesn't need any perks so I can be REAL patient!".
[/quote]

X2


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## clarkely

wolfwood said:


> The issue of the Koala Club , it is a tough one, the site will have to be trimmed to make it leaner and more supportable from just donations. The perks that the Koala Club provided will have to be suspended to a point to wait for stronger economic times.
> 
> I need to hear from any and all koala club members on how patience they will be with this unfortunate reality.


I would be very surprised (and MAYBE I will be) if ANY of the Koala Club Members paid the $ because of or in order to get the perks. Are they nice? Sure ... but I for one can't tell you what we get that someone else doesn't (except maybe the title under the name and the stickers). Count me in the column of "Doesn't need any perks so I can be REAL patient!".
[/quote]

I agree with Judi and Kathy, thats why i mentioned that..... I could give a rats rear end about the "perks" - i don't need a big koala designation..... I gave to support the site, not for any perk....... only thing i care about from all that is where it says charter member as it is a pat on the back that you helped ........... that being said, that can go away to and i wouldn't care. If anything one could say the original members like yourself and the others back from 2003/2004 may feel slighted as they r the true charter members.........


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## clarkely

clarkely said:


> The issue of the Koala Club , it is a tough one, the site will have to be trimmed to make it leaner and more supportable from just donations. The perks that the Koala Club provided will have to be suspended to a point to wait for stronger economic times.
> 
> I need to hear from any and all koala club members on how patience they will be with this unfortunate reality.


I would be very surprised (and MAYBE I will be) if ANY of the Koala Club Members paid the $ because of or in order to get the perks. Are they nice? Sure ... but I for one can't tell you what we get that someone else doesn't (except maybe the title under the name and the stickers). Count me in the column of "Doesn't need any perks so I can be REAL patient!".
[/quote]

I agree with Judi and Kathy, thats why i mentioned that..... I could give a rats rear end about the "perks" - i don't need a big koala designation..... I gave to support the site, not for any perk....... only thing i care about from all that is where it says charter member as it is a pat on the back that you helped ........... that being said, that can go away to and i wouldn't care. If anything one could say the original members like yourself and the others back from 2003/2004 may feel slighted as they r the true charter members.........
[/quote]

Another old saying i like to refer to with volunteer organizations i am involved in - Every time you acknowledge 1 person for doing something - you usually leave out 10........


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## CamperAndy

I really appreciate the input, please keep it coming.


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## wolfwood

Clarke, maybe you could encourage the members of D&T to come over and give Andy their CONSTRUCTIVE opinions ...


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## ORvagabond

CamperAndy said:


> The issue of the Koala Club , it is a tough one, the site will have to be trimmed to make it leaner and more supportable from just donations. The perks that the Koala Club provided will have to be suspended to a point to wait for stronger economic times.
> 
> I need to hear from any and all koala club members on how patience they will be with this unfortunate reality.


I would support that as a Koala Club member and would be open to an annual cost if that was needed for economic viability.


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## Nathan

clarkely said:


> The issue of the Koala Club , it is a tough one, the site will have to be trimmed to make it leaner and more supportable from just donations. The perks that the Koala Club provided will have to be suspended to a point to wait for stronger economic times.
> 
> I need to hear from any and all koala club members on how patience they will be with this unfortunate reality.


I would be very surprised (and MAYBE I will be) if ANY of the Koala Club Members paid the $ because of or in order to get the perks. Are they nice? Sure ... but I for one can't tell you what we get that someone else doesn't (except maybe the title under the name and the stickers). Count me in the column of "Doesn't need any perks so I can be REAL patient!".
[/quote]

I agree with Judi and Kathy, thats why i mentioned that..... I could give a rats rear end about the "perks" - i don't need a big koala designation..... I gave to support the site, not for any perk....... only thing i care about from all that is where it says charter member as it is a pat on the back that you helped ........... that being said, that can go away to and i wouldn't care. If anything one could say the original members like yourself and the others back from 2003/2004 may feel slighted as they r the true charter members.........
[/quote]

I'm in agreement as well. I joined the Koala Club as a charter member before it was even officially announced. I searched it out on the website and signed up because I wanted to do my part. The perks didn't factor in on my decision. I'm not here for recognition of any kind. It's the same with being a Moderator, I don't do it for the title and power of making an obscene post disappear







. No, I'm just doing my part to help out the site.

Finally, even if some people want the perks/recognition, I see there as being 2 choices: 1 you give up those things but keep the substance of Outbackers, or 2. the site goes down and you lose it all.


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## SLO Outbacker

My biggest interest in the site is the Forums in this order. 1. Modifications 2. Maintenance 3. Rallys and Trips 4. New Members ( The last two could be handled on FB.

I think that a lot of the trip pictures sharing and "social" stuff could be handled on a Facebook Friends page. I do not need the e-mail function of this site.

I tend to use forums for more technical ideas and FB for Social.

Thanks for asking the question. I would hate to see this site go away for the resource it is for information. I have tried other forums like RV.Net but they are too watered down.

My suggestion would be to move OB to more technical and open a Outbackers Friends page on FB. I would even mind if you let some advertisers onto the site to help fund it. Ads from some of the RV related sites would not be a bad thing as long as it didn't take over the site. If fact some discount coupons from stores or campgrounds might be helpful.


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## Sayonara

Were there Koala Club Perks ?? Just kidding. I really appreciate what Doug put together but if we lost the "perks" no harm here.


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## KampinwitKids

Greetings fellow outbackers,

I like Nathans list, and agree with Wolfie, as far as Sue and I are concerned, Our $100 was well spent, and we do not feel we are owed anything. Outbackers saved us ten-fold with all the advice from here, and you certainly cannot put a price on all the friends and relationships that have devloped since we joined in 2006.

It might be good to hold PM's for up to a year, as some rallies are planned a year out, I think that is a vital tool. spell check is good too.

As far as perks, nothing needed here. Just access to the fourm and ability to search the archives.

I think of how much enjoyment our 6 year old has had camping,(a lot to do with this site) he has even devloped his own relationships as well, heck, his fist kiss was to another Outbacker....Yup thats your little one Calvin & Hobbes.

I hope that this site continues, and young familes getting into camping benefit from this site as we did.

Brian


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## bill_pfaff

CamperAndy said:


> The issue of the Koala Club , it is a tough one, the site will have to be trimmed to make it leaner and more supportable from just donations. The perks that the Koala Club provided will have to be suspended to a point to wait for stronger economic times.
> 
> I need to hear from any and all koala club members on how patience they will be with this unfortunate reality.


I have no great need for most of the add ons offered the Koala Club members.

I'm pretty much with what has been said about the blogging, pictures, history, email etc.

A sound basic site that delivers the features I noted earlier and has rules for playing that match the rules we play by now is enough for me. BTW I truly appreciate the job the moderators & administrators have done to this point. Thank you all.

I only went the Koala charter way in order to help the site stay afloat plus I didn't want to have to make future payments.

I also would not be offended or upset if a small banner ad was added to the site. I ignore them on other websites that I frequent I guess I can ignore one here too


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## rdvholtwood

Thank you ALL for your continued support - this is great - keep the ideas/suggestions coming!

Rick


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## vdub

I belong to another rv forum that I get a lot of value from. The forum is actually a database of discount rv parks with directions, gps coords, phone #'s, reviews, etc The business model is on two levels.

First, is the free portion which is actually the whole enchilada, i.e., you get everything available in the database. That is, you get everything, as long as you have an internet connection! If you have a connection, you can get anything that anyone else can. You can even post a review of campground without being a paid member. No holds are barred.

The second level costs $10/year. What you get from the second level is a download of the entire database to your computer. This then gives you access to everything when you don't have a connection to the internet -- like when you are driving down the road and you don't want to stop, but want some information about a park. Not having an internet connection used to be more common than it is now, however, as broadband on cell phones becomes more common, fewer people will be willing to pay the $10 as there simply won't be any incentive. But for the time being, it's a valuable addition and well worth a measly $10/year.

Currently there are 10,000 paid members. Do the math.... Even at $10/year (that's not per month), the operating funds come to quite a bit.

The individual who started the discount forum did it as a community service to fill a need. He wasn't into it for the money and never intended to turn a profit and he charged a reasonable rate for a reasonable reward.

What's missing in Outbackers is very little incentive to pay anything, let alone $100/year (ridiculous, IMHO). An attempt was made to offer an incentive, but the offering was stuff that wasn't wanted -- chat room, e-mail, stickers (which as someone mentioned tend to alienate), etc.

In my opinion, the forum could survive on a "reasonable donation" basis, if you don't expect to get rich. However, you will have to get rid of all the fluff (e-mail, chat, donation "stickers", etc) and focus on the core values of social networking and technical support. The social networking is a pain and something I could definitly live without, but the forum would not survive on tech support alone. The social networking keeps the forum alive and keeps people coming back every day if not several times a day.

Other than being one of the original triple-digit members of this site, I have absolutely no vested interest in it. I check back occassionally, but I lost a lot of interest in the site several years ago. I would like to see it continue, but if it doesn't..... Oh well......

BTW, for all of you who joined after about the 2,000 member mark, Vern38 started this forum.


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## clarkely

wolfwood said:


> Clarke, maybe you could encourage the members of D&T to come over and give Andy their CONSTRUCTIVE opinions ...


I am sure they are all here reading it. I thought about putting a post up like that, and you or any other member certainly or welcome to.

I took a breath, thought about it and don't think it should be. Everyone who loves this site is coming back and see's the post's and can certainly comment on it. By posting anything about it anywhere else, i can all but guarantee someon will start bad mouthing this or that and start a whole "fever" again that i will end up having to "medicate".

It would be my opinion that those who care, like myself and folks who have posted and read it are still coming back and seeing it.

At the end of the day until we all here otherwise the clock is still ticking and the site has a closure date of 4/22/11. I am hopeful it can be saved, i wouldn't have donated money or continued coming back if i did not enjoy and benefit from the sense of community. I also would not have volunteered to be a part of a new community that could be a site like outbackers was when i first joined. I don't think all that much changed, other then the direction of becoming a pay site. That in itself is not bad either, i belong to a couple pay sites, and have no problem paying for a service. Unfortunately, and i don't mean to dwell on it, but two shut downs in a year and half has dampened some spirits as to the future of the site, and quite frankly became very divisive.....

I'm rambling again.

I plan on staying here as long as it is up and running. I also plan to continue to participating in other forums.

I also sincerely hope the site stays open - it has a wealth of knowledge and information, if it doesn't, life will go on and do want to express that I admire and respect all those who are putting forth this effort to keep it going!!

Lets go camping!!


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## Braggus

clarkely said:


> Clarke, maybe you could encourage the members of D&T to come over and give Andy their CONSTRUCTIVE opinions ...


I am sure they are all here reading it. I thought about putting a post up like that, and you or any other member certainly or welcome to.

I took a breath, thought about it and don't think it should be. Everyone who loves this site is coming back and see's the post's and can certainly comment on it. By posting anything about it anywhere else, i can all but guarantee someon will start bad mouthing this or that and start a whole "fever" again that i will end up having to "medicate".

It would be my opinion that those who care, like myself and folks who have posted and read it are still coming back and seeing it.

At the end of the day until we all here otherwise the clock is still ticking and the site has a closure date of 4/22/11. I am hopeful it can be saved, i wouldn't have donated money or continued coming back if i did not enjoy and benefit from the sense of community. I also would not have volunteered to be a part of a new community that could be a site like outbackers was when i first joined. I don't think all that much changed, other then the direction of becoming a pay site. That in itself is not bad either, i belong to a couple pay sites, and have no problem paying for a service. Unfortunately, and i don't mean to dwell on it, but two shut downs in a year and half has dampened some spirits as to the future of the site, and quite frankly became very divisive.....

I'm rambling again.

I plan on staying here as long as it is up and running. I also plan to continue to participating in other forums.

I also sincerely hope the site stays open - it has a wealth of knowledge and information, if it doesn't, life will go on and do want to express that I admire and respect all those who are putting forth this effort to keep it going!!

Lets go camping!!
[/quote]

who all has contacted Doug about taking over the site? I know I have and still am waiting for more info from him.


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## CamperAndy

Guys lets not confuse the purpose of this thread. Doug will contact all that he can or feels he needs to, to keep the site running. Currently I am just investigating the needs of the site so that the proposals that are put forward have a better understanding on what they will have to do.

Also please do not feel slighted if you are not contacted. There are a lot of people working towards the same end at this time.


----------



## thefulminator

The post started out asking the question "what is important" as to features of this site. Perhaps it should be changed to "what is not important". I went back to the original topic when the whole membership/Koala Club issue started and made a condensed list of the features of each level of participation. My opinion is that each member take a look at the list to remind you of what each membership level included, then decide what you don't need. There is a lot of information as to what level received what service. It will be much easier to determine what you want if all the information is in front of you.

Original membership topic


----------



## Calvin&Hobbes

CamperAndy said:


> The issue of the Koala Club , it is a tough one, the site will have to be trimmed to make it leaner and more supportable from just donations. The perks that the Koala Club provided will have to be suspended to a point to wait for stronger economic times.
> 
> I need to hear from any and all koala club members on how patience they will be with this unfortunate reality.


The Koala feature was a great one on paper, but in reality I or my DW never used any of those extra perks...

Blogs-no.
Outbacker email- no
Short time (list) on saving PM's.
Outside hosting of photo's, no problem.

I just enjoyed the comraderie of fellow campers, enjoying what we all came here for.

Heck I'd even be receptive to advertising, to keep the site alive.


----------



## SouthRider

It is very easy to post photos on other free sites, and to then only have the link on this server ie: http://clarkscamper.shutterfly.com/

I would be willing to bet that the bulk of the cost is in saving photos on the server. Photos are very large files.

Has anyone considered tasteful advertising? Not the type that drives you nuts every time you roll the mouse over a word, but banner ads and sidebar ads for RV dealers & product manufacturers. I would honestly be INTERESTED in unique RV products, and often spend as much time reading the ads in trailer magazines as I do the content.

Also - I am about to finalize the sale of my Outback from a free classified on this site. I almost feel guilty it sold so fast.

How about a tiered system where classifieds under a certain cost are free, but there is a modest cost to list higher dollar items?

Just a few thoughts.

Clark


----------



## Oregon_Camper

Nathan said:


> My Priorities would be:
> 
> 1. Posts (obviously)
> 2. PM's (ideally with e-mail notifications)
> 3. Search feature
> 4. Member profiles
> 5. Gallery (we can always use picassa or something like that if it helps)
> 
> I'm not a big blogger, never really setup the e-mail, and didn't use a lot of the other features...


1- Yep...I'm like the idea of posting.








2 - PM's - Needed, as some conversations need to be taking off line
3 - Yep...this is a must have. Might even take the time to enhance this a bit.
4 - Is this the signature line stuff? If so, then yea, keep it. If this is the personal stuff (birthday, etc..) then it can go away
5 - Gallery is important and I'd rather it didn't go to other sites (photobucket, etc..) Reason is the pictures in posts are sometimes needed in order to convey the message. Point in proof is the recent Heater in Bathroom post. Without the pictures, I think the thread losses some of the impact.

Kill the stickers...kill the blogs...kill the chat...kill the email....kill off the lesser used forums (let them bounce to misc forum)....cut PM's storage to 2-3 months or 25 total (people can cut/paste to personal pc if needed)....

Get more fun icons to add to post.









I knew going in the $100 Lifetime membership was money well spent. I know for SURE I've saved that amount 10x. Not only in cash but in time spent to resolve issues or quick ideas on how to do something better. Heck I spend $100 to fill my truck...and that is gone in ~2 weeks...this small investment keep giving me returns everyday.

If you'll still have me...I'll stick around as an Admin. If not, I'll go back to a posting machine and bring up your database costs. LOL









Sorry I have been a bit quite on this whole topic, but I'm on vacation with my family in Hawaii and I get the evil eye from the family when I sit down at the computer vs. doing famiy stuff.


----------



## CamperAndy

Oregon_Camper said:


> Sorry I have been a bit quite on this whole topic, but I'm on vacation with my family in Hawaii and I get the evil eye from the family when I sit down at the computer vs. doing famiy stuff.


Without photos I don't believe it







.

Have fun and don't get the boss made at you for coming on here.


----------



## thefulminator

I've said it a few times now and I keep getting a chilly reception. I have been on other forums where advertising in always there but not bothersome. For example the forum at popupexplorer back when I owned a tent trailer. Take a look around a few pages there and see what I mean.


----------



## CamperAndy

thefulminator said:


> I've said it a few times now and I keep getting a chilly reception. I have been on other forums where advertising in always there but not bothersome. For example the forum at popupexplorer back when I owned a tent trailer. Take a look around a few pages there and see what I mean.


I am not sure we yet have the traffic to make banner ads pay any dividend. I would prefer to stay away from them if at all possible. Do I rule them out? No but I do wish to avoid them.


----------



## H2oSprayer

As far as ads go...maybe something such as this. Have all the ads that you want (or don't want) and then charge a small fee to become a member of the site, say $5 per year. When you sign in, the ads go away and are only there for the "guests" (non-signed in people) of the website to view.


----------



## CamperAndy

H2oSprayer said:


> As far as ads go...maybe something such as this. Have all the ads that you want (or don't want) and then charge a small fee to become a member of the site, say $5 per year. When you sign in, the ads go away and are only there for the "guests" (non-signed in people) of the website to view.


I guess that has possibilities and you know it is time to give a few bucks when the banners reappear! I like that option and it will be one of the ones we look at. Thanks.


----------



## vdub

> As far as ads go...maybe something such as this. Have all the ads that you want (or don't want) and then charge a small fee to become a member of the site, say $5 per year. When you sign in, the ads go away and are only there for the "guests" (non-signed in people) of the website to view.


Capitol idea! Kudos! Is it technologically doable? I think it is and I seem to have run across something along those lines once when I was searching for the last page of the internet.

However, I still think people would be willing to give $5/$10 a year just to be able to respond and join in on the conversation or ask a question. I think the obvious thing would be to start low, say $5, and see if you get enough to pay the bills. Hosting is dirt cheap anymore. I have 2 sites hosted at InMotion. They weren't the cheapest I could find, but they had a good track record. I've been with them for about 5 years now and they have been real good to me. My previous host, which I had been with since 1995, got greedy -- as other hosts were reducing prices, they were increasing them and service was correspondingly going down -- go figure.


----------



## clarkely

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> Heck I'd even be receptive to advertising, to keep the site alive.


I am on many sites that have advertising, as long as it is not in your face and specific to the interest of the site (camping)

Its not the worst thing as a means to an end in keeping the site open.


----------



## mike

Things that are impt to me.

1. database
2. rally page, I know for some that is not important, but we have met some really great people that have become close family friends. I know some people are not into the social aspects but we really enjoy it.
3. pm's

On a side note, This forum has been great to us and I would hate to see it go. That being said there are other forums that i participate to. I try to give one forum a donation once a year, at least 25 to keep the site going.

I also agree with H20 that the idea of a non-profit with an accounting of expenses would lead to a long lasting loyal group as opposed to people concerned where the money is going. I know Doug owns the site. And I dont want to rehash what was already discussed. just putting in my 2 cents


----------



## Y-Guy

wolfwood said:


> I would be very surprised (and MAYBE I will be) if ANY of the Koala Club Members paid the $$ because of or in order to get the perks.


Yep. Never used the perks that I know of, considered it a donation to support the site.


----------



## Darj

Y-Guy said:


> I would be very surprised (and MAYBE I will be) if ANY of the Koala Club Members paid the $$ because of or in order to get the perks.


Yep. Never used the perks that I know of, considered it a donation to support the site.
[/quote]

Ditto! Don't use any of the perks here. My husband and I paid the money to help support the site period. We may not post much, but when searching this site for mods and places to camp, that's what we get out of it.


----------



## thefulminator

Darj said:


> I would be very surprised (and MAYBE I will be) if ANY of the Koala Club Members paid the $$ because of or in order to get the perks.


Yep. Never used the perks that I know of, considered it a donation to support the site.
[/quote]

Ditto! Don't use any of the perks here. My husband and I paid the money to help support the site period. We may not post much, but when searching this site for mods and places to camp, that's what we get out of it.








[/quote]

Same here.


----------



## Braggus

thefulminator said:


> I would be very surprised (and MAYBE I will be) if ANY of the Koala Club Members paid the $$ because of or in order to get the perks.


Yep. Never used the perks that I know of, considered it a donation to support the site.
[/quote]

Ditto! Don't use any of the perks here. My husband and I paid the money to help support the site period. We may not post much, but when searching this site for mods and places to camp, that's what we get out of it.








[/quote]

Same here.
[/quote]
X3


----------



## Braggus

clarkely said:


> Heck I'd even be receptive to advertising, to keep the site alive.


I am on many sites that have advertising, as long as it is not in your face and specific to the interest of the site (camping)

Its not the worst thing as a means to an end in keeping the site open.
[/quote]
Ran several forums in the past and I used google AdSense and it does pay out, just have to have people click on the links, received several checks from them and used it to help pay for the server service.
you get to place the banner when you want it on your site so you can limit the amount "in your face"


----------



## bbwb

I have to say that the ideas listed in the previous posts really sum up what I could come up with. I could do without the gallery (I use photobucket and post a link in my post...don't know if that requires more bandwidth etc.) Personal messages are kind of nice, but if people really wanted to contact another member, they could click on a email link.
I like the idea of a free post with advertising, but a pay site to eliminate the ads.
I have always felt that the members of this site really like to discuss problems and solutions that they have experienced. My site viewing habits are looking a the site several times throughout the day and searching the top 20 posts for something that interests me or that I might be able to contribute to. I like that feature.
If a new site requires some nominal fee to participate, I would be part of that.

FYI, I had sent Doug a thank you note for his efforts in this site, of which I received a nice response.

bbwb


----------



## rdvholtwood

bbwb said:


> I have to say that the ideas listed in the previous posts really sum up what I could come up with. I could do without the gallery (I use photobucket and post a link in my post...don't know if that requires more bandwidth etc.) Personal messages are kind of nice, but if people really wanted to contact another member, they could click on a email link.
> I like the idea of a free post with advertising, but a pay site to eliminate the ads.
> I have always felt that the members of this site really like to discuss problems and solutions that they have experienced. My site viewing habits are looking a the site several times throughout the day and searching the top 20 posts for something that interests me or that I might be able to contribute to. I like that feature.
> If a new site requires some nominal fee to participate, I would be part of that.
> 
> FYI, I had sent Doug a thank you note for his efforts in this site, of which I received a nice response.
> 
> bbwb


Thanks bbwb for you input - please don't be discouraged if Doug does not respond to your PM's immediately - I am sure during this time he must be receiving lots of PM's regarding the site and I am sure he appreciates your note.


----------



## Camping Fan

Braggus said:


> I would be very surprised (and MAYBE I will be) if ANY of the Koala Club Members paid the $$ because of or in order to get the perks.


Yep. Never used the perks that I know of, considered it a donation to support the site.
[/quote]

Ditto! Don't use any of the perks here. My husband and I paid the money to help support the site period. We may not post much, but when searching this site for mods and places to camp, that's what we get out of it.








[/quote]

Same here.
[/quote]
X3
[/quote]

X4. Nathan and O_C's lists cover my needs pretty well. I became a Koala Club member to help keep the site going because I value the information and the camaraderie. The extra perks are nice, but to be honest I didn't really use any of them other than posting pics to the gallery.


----------



## Calvin&Hobbes

Just a thought.... This site is primarily Outbacks, made by Keystone. I wonder if Keystone would pony up for some advertising on this site? I'll be willing to bet that at least one Outback trailer may have been bought by someone "on the fence" and convinced to buy based on the information and collective knowledge they have read right here.


----------



## N7OQ

As a Koala club member I want all my perks, I want it all, I paid for it I want it. 
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Just kidding LOL







I have never used any of the perks, I have no need for them. I would be happy with the way it was several years ago. Just the basics no frills, a place to ask questions, help friends and socialize. Thanks Andy


----------



## ZHB

I'm late to this thread, but several people have alreayd said - well - what I feel. So my input is:

Quoting OC:
1- Yep...I'm like the idea of posting.
2 - PM's - Needed, as some conversations need to be taking off line
3 - Yep...this is a must have. Might even take the time to enhance this a bit.
4 - Is this the signature line stuff? If so, then yea, keep it. If this is the personal stuff (birthday, etc..) then it can go away
5 - Gallery is important and I'd rather it didn't go to other sites (photobucket, etc..) Reason is the pictures in posts are sometimes needed in order to convey the message. Point in proof is the recent Heater in Bathroom post. Without the pictures, I think the thread losses some of the impact.

Kill the stickers...kill the blogs...kill the chat...kill the email....kill off the lesser used forums (let them bounce to misc forum)....cut PM's storage to 2-3 months or 25 total (people can cut/paste to personal pc if needed)....

Quoting H2OSprayer:

As far as ads go...maybe something such as this. Have all the ads that you want (or don't want) and then charge a small fee to become a member of the site, say $5 per year. When you sign in, the ads go away and are only there for the "guests" (non-signed in people) of the website to view.

Quoting Clarkely:

I am on many sites that have advertising, as long as it is not in your face and specific to the interest of the site (camping), its not the worst thing as a means to an end in keeping the site open.

Basically, I'm here for the informative posts, the forum discussions with other members, and the wonderful Outback-specific conversations we have here. The fact that this site is specifically about Outbacks makes it uniquely valuable - in addition to all the wonderful members. When the original pay plan came up, I was unemployed and missed the boat on the Koala Club. I became a paying member later, not for the perks, but just to help support the site I value so much. I will continue to do so, but I'd also be happy with non-in-your-face advertising.


----------



## Irishcampers

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> Just a thought.... This site is primarily Outbacks, made by Keystone. I wonder if Keystone would pony up for some advertising on this site? I'll be willing to bet that at least one Outback trailer may have been bought by someone "on the fence" and convinced to buy based on the information and collective knowledge they have read right here.


A few quick points.

Per the quote above, I don't see any harm in having advertising (someone earlier suggested "tasteful") on the site. I think Keystone and a host of camping/outdoor supply companies would be interested in the level of engagement of the people who use this site. It's not just the numbers, it's the level of use and interaction on the site. [Full disclosure: I'm a marketing & advertising guy for the past 20 years, so I might be biased here.]

Regarding the value points, I agree with many of the things that people have said. I enjoy the forums. It is particularly helpful to have the pictures with the mods forum.

Regarding a modest fee for use, I'd be open to that as well.

Thanks to Doug and everyone who has made the site what it is today.


----------



## N7OQ

I would love to see advertizing related to camping and the outdoors.


----------



## Joonbee

Camping Fan said:


> I would be very surprised (and MAYBE I will be) if ANY of the Koala Club Members paid the $$ because of or in order to get the perks.


Yep. Never used the perks that I know of, considered it a donation to support the site.
[/quote]

Ditto! Don't use any of the perks here. My husband and I paid the money to help support the site period. We may not post much, but when searching this site for mods and places to camp, that's what we get out of it.








[/quote]

Same here.
[/quote]
X3
[/quote]

X4. Nathan and O_C's lists cover my needs pretty well. I became a Koala Club member to help keep the site going because I value the information and the camaraderie. The extra perks are nice, but to be honest I didn't really use any of them other than posting pics to the gallery.
[/quote]

I also agree with all the above. I love hanging out on Outbackers and paid for my Koala membership to keep the site together and running. I havent used any of the frills and for me the simpler the better. I am not computer saavy enough to use most of the extras offered and would love to see the site continue and have been trying to keep up with the reading. I have been at a school all week so my time has been limited. I have been tryig to help on D&T and keep up with everything here, because this site is status quo for me. By which I mean, I have enjoyed this site enough to pay for it to continue in the past and that hasnt changed nor will I ever forget it if it doesnt survive.

Right now I ma very happy to see the positive energy that rallied here a couple of years ago to make sure it survived then has returned, but I will be honest and say that whatever happens, I hope it is REALLY the last time we have to sweat the drama of a shut down.

As others have said lets get this resolved and get the Outbacker families out camping, which is what we do best.

Jim


----------



## Gary

My Priorities would be:

1. Posts (obviously)
2. PM's (ideally with e-mail notifications)
3. Search feature
4. Member profiles
5. Gallery

Also see if any RV dealers, camp grounds, and RV parts dealers would pay for advertzing on the site.
I bet Chevy Duramax would like you to buy one of their desiel to pull your trailer.
Than Dodge would not only want to see Chevy on this site. They would have to have an ad also.
Ford couldn't be left out
On and On and On


----------



## LaydBack

I am totally new to RVing and fairly new to Outbackers. I believe I joined late last summer, and purchased our camper in late February this year. I started reading this thread earlier today at work, and just came down to try and catch up on it. My purpose is not to single out, contradict, or challenge anyone. I will just point out some of the things that stood out to me as I read, without back tracking to pick apart. The wish for the site to continue and be non-profit......is it non-profit now.....if not, why is that the wish now?	Is there some newly found principle? Perks?.....in a country that is founded on captitalism, in all true reality, what can you perceive to be a perk?....a stroking of one's ego? I paid/have more than you did?....I am a member of several forums, and I personally as a blue collared, union member (IBEW Local 1) don't believe that anything comes free. I believe that the party taking the risk deserves their "fair" share of "the" reward. It's funny, that I was just thinking Sunday, as I de-winterized my TT, that I was going to buck up for a Koala Club membership. As I said before, I'm a member of several forums, but this is the 1st one that I have ever contemplated or even felt the need to be a monetary member of. I believe in not taking more than you give. Of course this is the 1st one that has been of an interest that I have made such a large financial investment in (diesel truck, 2011 camper).... so what's another $100. What's even funnier, is that I was having so much trouble posting pics, I thought that the Koala Club perks would make that easier, and that alone was worth the cost.....just so I could share/show my pride in my camper and experiences. In my eyes, the perk was that I could post the same pics that others have figured out how to post, basically for free. Call it lazy, ignorance, whatever, I was/am willing to do this to be a part of/share my experiences, which in my eyes is what a forum is all about. This is and has been a great site to me. Basically everything I know about camping/RVing has come from here. I had never towed anything bigger than my 5x8 utility trailer, and I was able to figure out how to get my 312BH from the dealer to home, from knowledge and information I got from this site. Search my posts, if you really want to read about the adventure. Had it not been for this site, I would've surely pulled over and called a friend or uncle with a bigger truck to come and bail me out, as I can't imagine towing that TT with the 1500 Crew Cab Silverado that I had. Thanks to Outbackers, I learned enough to purchase the proper TV prior to purchasing the TT. What's this got to do with the topic of the thread? I think that we all share the common goal of wanting to share our knowledge and experiences. We can leave the frills of the site to sharing our mods (the real frills), we can do without the frills of email, blog, and the subforums that get little or no traffic. The gallery is nice, but after all my problems posting pics, I just made an album under my Hotmail account, and started posting a link to it. I did go over to D&T, and it seems to be a budding site, and I will continue to go there. This site is much too nice to allow to fizzle. I think it would be nice to know from the administration, what it will take to keep it up. I understand that may take some knowledge of what the members would like, but keep us in the loop. Scale things back and have people humble themselves, and let's keep this thing going.


----------



## dirtengineer

Oregon_Camper said:


> 1- Yep...I'm like the idea of posting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 - PM's - Needed, as some conversations need to be taking off line
> 3 - Yep...this is a must have. Might even take the time to enhance this a bit.
> 4 - Is this the signature line stuff? If so, then yea, keep it. If this is the personal stuff (birthday, etc..) then it can go away
> 5 - Gallery is important and I'd rather it didn't go to other sites (photobucket, etc..) Reason is the pictures in posts are sometimes needed in order to convey the message. Point in proof is the recent Heater in Bathroom post. Without the pictures, I think the thread losses some of the impact.
> 
> Kill the stickers...kill the blogs...kill the chat...kill the email....kill off the lesser used forums (let them bounce to misc forum)....cut PM's storage to 2-3 months or 25 total (people can cut/paste to personal pc if needed)....
> 
> Get more fun icons to add to post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I knew going in the $100 Lifetime membership was money well spent. I know for SURE I've saved that amount 10x. Not only in cash but in time spent to resolve issues or quick ideas on how to do something better. Heck I spend $100 to fill my truck...and that is gone in ~2 weeks...this small investment keep giving me returns everyday.
> 
> If you'll still have me...I'll stick around as an Admin. If not, I'll go back to a posting machine and bring up your database costs. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I have been a bit quite on this whole topic, but I'm on vacation with my family in Hawaii and I get the evil eye from the family when I sit down at the computer vs. doing famiy stuff.


My opinions are pretty much the same except I really don't care about emoticons. One way to lower bandwidth/storage if you keep the gallery function is to lower the resolution during the upload.

I also think advertising is a pretty good idea if it is done right. That means low key.


----------



## CamperAndy

Everyone I want to express my thanks for the effort everyone has made in their contribution to this thread. In less then 24 hours we have had a great response and I will try to recap here. Everything in the first list will be by its importance not to its cost.

1 - Maintain the current database
2 - Support #1 from a stable server
3 - Solid search functionality
4 - Basic gallery support
5 - Basic PM support

As for the monetary support of the site the following appears to be important or acceptable.

1 - Donations with accountability and tracking.
2 - Some non intrusive ads that are forum relevant.
3 - If possible have item 2 turned off if a member makes a donation.

Things that are not important, there is no top or bottom of this list.

Blogging, site supported e-mail address, multiple galleries, large PM storage, status recognition for donation.

Now what I would like to do is refine this list, even if you have already posted please re post to indicate that this list is accurate or where it needs adjustment.

Also for those of you out there with direct and current knowledge of hosting providers, tell me who do you think would be best at the top 5 most important items. Please provide links to the provider.


----------



## Calvin&Hobbes

Thats perfect Andy.


----------



## rdvholtwood

CamperAndy said:


> Everyone I want to express my thanks for the effort everyone has made in their contribution to this thread. In less then 24 hours we have had a great response and I will try to recap here. Everything in the first list will be by its importance not to its cost.
> 
> 1 - Maintain the current database
> 2 - Support #1 from a stable server
> 3 - Solid search functionality
> 4 - Basic gallery support
> 5 - Basic PM support
> 
> As for the monetary support of the site the following appears to be important or acceptable.
> 
> 1 - Donations with accountability and tracking.
> 2 - Some non intrusive ads that are forum relevant.
> 3 - If possible have item 2 turned off if a member makes a donation.
> 
> Things that are not important, there is no top or bottom of this list.
> 
> Blogging, site supported e-mail address, multiple galleries, large PM storage, status recognition for donation.
> 
> Now what I would like to do is refine this list, even if you have already posted please re post to indicate that this list is accurate or where it needs adjustment.
> 
> Also for those of you out there with direct and current knowledge of hosting providers, tell me who do you think would be best at the top 5 most important items. Please provide links to the provider.


Andy - great information - I think we are on our way.

At this point, we will begin the process of looking at the base cost and then cutting back on options. We need to remember that even though we do cut back on site options that it is the database itself could require us to maintain our current server specifications. If this is the case (which I am hoping its not) then we may have to very well cut back on other items in the list to adjust.

As far as the other items, once we get an idea of what the savings will be with making, we can then decide on what monetary requirements we will need. I am in favor of the ideas and again, would like to first understand how much of savings we would gain by doing advertising.

As far as hosting - thats a different area of consideration and can offer that we are currently looking into options that will best provide stability for our site.

The good news is that we all came together and provided great support when needed. With everyone's contribution, we believe that we can find a solution to keep Outbackers alive and with everyone's continued support enjoy the benefits of this great site.

Thanks for your support!

Rick


----------



## Braggus

> Also for those of you out there with direct and current knowledge of hosting providers, tell me who do you think would be best at the top 5 most important items. Please provide links to the provider.


Data transfer rate
disk space
up time
script support
cost
I am using Easy CGI and have been using them for some years with NO problems.


----------



## Joonbee

I agree Rick, the light is getting brighter at the end of the tunnel.

Andy I think you summed up the list perfectly.

Jim


----------



## Sayonara

Andy, your summary is perfect. Thanks for taking the lead on this!!


----------



## Doxie-Doglover-Too

????


----------



## clarkely

CamperAndy said:


> Right now I ma very happy to see the positive energy that rallied here a couple of years ago to make sure it survived then has returned, but I will be honest and say that whatever happens, I hope it is REALLY the last time we have to sweat the drama of a shut down.
> 
> As others have said lets get this resolved and get the Outbacker families out camping, which is what we do best.
> 
> Jim


----------



## H2oSprayer

Doxie-Doglover-Too said:


>


I love the Magic 8 Ball!!!

I agree that the list is looking good. I kind of like the thought that someone had above. If this would end up being a free forum, then make the classified section only available to members that have provided a site donation or upgraded their account. I have emailed Doug about this in the past, but it kinds of gets under my skin a bit to see someone who has never contributed a single post (even just to check in and say hi) or site donation, have their first post be about having a camper for sale. They make the sale and are never seen again....Okay, I'm now off my soapbox.


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## vdub

Good summary! Seems to reflect what was said.....


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## Ace

In response to your questions regarding a good hosting solution there are a lot of companies out there and I am sure you will get a lot of suggestions.

As a former web developer and current owner of a small web design company, I have hosted with many different providers. Some have been great, others have been less-than-desirable. My suggestion would be to host with one of the larger providers and if possible try talking to someone knowledgeable who has utilized their services with a true transactional website. Its one thing to say a hosting company is great if you are only hosting a basic website with some flash and maybe a form. Its entirely different if you can say the same thing, but you are hosting something like a forum with picture uploads, a slew of simultaneous users, database reads and writes, etc. There are some great companies out there and I think you will find some have really good prices. Its really going to depend on home much disk space you need, as well as the allowable monthly bandwidth, almost all of them guarantee 99.9% up time, but that's easy when probably 99.9% of the sites they host are basic web sites with little traffic and complexity. They are all going to have script support, that part is going to depend on what solution you are going to use for the forum. Is it WAMP, XAMPP, LAMP, etc...


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## SouthRider

I am totally on board with the list above.

As for the advertising - besides banner ads placed by some 3rd party we could also sell "sponsorships" for premier placement on the site to vendors whom have proven reliable.

IE: Holmans, Lakeshore, etc. Just how many campers have been bought from them by members of this site.

Sponsorships should certainly provide more income than conventional banner ads.

Just a thought.


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## jcat67

wolfwood said:


> The issue of the Koala Club , it is a tough one, the site will have to be trimmed to make it leaner and more supportable from just donations. The perks that the Koala Club provided will have to be suspended to a point to wait for stronger economic times.
> 
> I need to hear from any and all koala club members on how patience they will be with this unfortunate reality.


I would be very surprised (and MAYBE I will be) if ANY of the Koala Club Members paid the $$ because of or in order to get the perks. Are they nice? Sure ... but I for one can't tell you what we get that someone else doesn't (except maybe the title under the name and the stickers). Count me in the column of "Doesn't need any perks so I can be REAL patient!".
[/quote]

X2 on this. I joined to support the site. Speaking for myself (which I guess physically is the only person I can speak for....and often to myself sometimes, but that is a different matter) I use the forums 97% of the time and PM 3% or so, and only keep a few around. Access to the site and forums is my only concern now and don't see that concern expanding much. Take your time.


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## jcamp

H2oSprayer said:


>


I love the Magic 8 Ball!!!

I agree that the list is looking good. I kind of like the thought that someone had above. If this would end up being a free forum, then make the classified section only available to members that have provided a site donation or upgraded their account. I have emailed Doug about this in the past, but it kinds of gets under my skin a bit to see someone who has never contributed a single post (even just to check in and say hi) or site donation, have their first post be about having a camper for sale. They make the sale and are never seen again....Okay, I'm now off my soapbox.
[/quote]

That was a very good point! Dang interlopers!


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## wolfwood

Gotta say, I agree with al that's been said - Andy, your lists seem to be ON THE MARK!! I know nothing about webhosting so will leave that to others.


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## KTMRacer

overall this board has been great, and is one of the very few that I have decided was worth paying for a subscription. I really do like the gallery, etc in addition to the forum, but for me, the blog/email/gallery (other than mods section)/chat are features that I could easily live without. The PM and search features are also very important, something that is very valuable on any forum. One thing I'm very thankful for on this website is the quality of the server. Speed and availabilty have been top notch. That's important. There is another un named major RV forum (I'm sure many know which one it is) that REALLY suffers from a SLOWWWWW server. Very frustrating.


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## Ghosty

Get rid of that AWFUL POLL on who pulls what on the left hand side ... in 2005 when OUTBACK made 10 models it was cute .. now its ridiculous .. serves zero purpose...

also .. fix the SEARCH


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## vdub

> Get rid of that AWFUL POLL on who pulls what on the left hand side ... in 2005 when OUTBACK made 10 models it was cute .. now its ridiculous .. serves zero purpose


<snicker> Yeap! Does indeed seem to be useless....


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## CamperAndy

Ghosty said:


> Get rid of that AWFUL POLL on who pulls what on the left hand side ... in 2005 when OUTBACK made 10 models it was cute .. now its ridiculous .. serves zero purpose...
> 
> also .. fix the SEARCH


Not sure that poll is what is costing the site so much at the moment Ghosty but I am sure we will look at it when the time comes.









What issue do you have with the search function?


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## SLO Outbacker

CamperAndy,

I think you have summarized the comments well. I agree with your list and suggestions.

Hope you can pull it off. I am not sure what is involved in all you are doing, but as you can see form the comments I think your efforts are appreciated. The site has been a great resource.

This is the best "community" I have discovered. I just hope I can make it to a event someday and meet some of the people in person.

Thank you,


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## Nathan




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## clarkely

CamperAndy said:


> Not sure that poll is what is costing the site so much at the moment Ghosty but I am sure we will look at it when the time comes.


When you say...."we will look at it when the time comes.







"

Is the site saved???

If so that is GREAT NEWS!!!Maybe wishful thinking on my part, or reading into the post.... but i gotta ask


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## bbwb

Here is my question..
In one of the other posts, it was stated that the costs to run this site is about $10/per day ($3650/year). Now according to the membership list of 6421 members, that would work out to .57 per member per year. So, could we all pony up (require)say $5, start an account to pay for following years, require new members to pay $5, and stay here as is? Or must we end this site and start over because of in place ownership rights etc...
I would think that for this dollar amount, several RV advertisements would pay to the site and members could be free.
I am sure there are many things I don't understand or even know about but thought that I would prove it???

bbwb


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## N7OQ

CamperAndy said:


> Everyone I want to express my thanks for the effort everyone has made in their contribution to this thread. In less then 24 hours we have had a great response and I will try to recap here. Everything in the first list will be by its importance not to its cost.
> 
> 1 - Maintain the current database
> 2 - Support #1 from a stable server
> 3 - Solid search functionality
> 4 - Basic gallery support
> 5 - Basic PM support
> 
> As for the monetary support of the site the following appears to be important or acceptable.
> 
> 1 - Donations with accountability and tracking.
> 2 - Some non intrusive ads that are forum relevant.
> 3 - If possible have item 2 turned off if a member makes a donation.
> 
> Things that are not important, there is no top or bottom of this list.
> 
> Blogging, site supported e-mail address, multiple galleries, large PM storage, status recognition for donation.
> 
> Now what I would like to do is refine this list, even if you have already posted please re post to indicate that this list is accurate or where it needs adjustment.
> 
> Also for those of you out there with direct and current knowledge of hosting providers, tell me who do you think would be best at the top 5 most important items. Please provide links to the provider.


I like it and agree with everything except I would swap #4 and #5 I don't think a gallery it that important with all the free picture holding sites like Photobucket, why waste the band width if you don't have to.

I also saw someone suggest that members only be able to use the classified section, I don't like this for 2 reasons. 1 if I want to sell something I wast the biggest exposure and 2 if I want to buy something I want to see all available items.

I believe KISS would work here real well.


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## CamperAndy

clarkely said:


> Not sure that poll is what is costing the site so much at the moment Ghosty but I am sure we will look at it when the time comes.


When you say...."we will look at it when the time comes.







"

Is the site saved???

If so that is GREAT NEWS!!!Maybe wishful thinking on my part, or reading into the post.... but i gotta ask








[/quote]

Still a work in progress but I think Ghosty may have just been jerking our chain a bit. We have just been at this for the past two days to set a path for restructure. We still have some time to work on it but has been mention the light is brighter at the end of the tunnel.


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## CamperAndy

bbwb said:


> Here is my question..
> In one of the other posts, it was stated that the costs to run this site is about $10/per day ($3650/year). Now according to the membership list of 6421 members, that would work out to .57 per member per year. So, could we all pony up (require)say $5, start an account to pay for following years, require new members to pay $5, and stay here as is? Or must we end this site and start over because of in place ownership rights etc...
> I would think that for this dollar amount, several RV advertisements would pay to the site and members could be free.
> I am sure there are many things I don't understand or even know about but thought that I would prove it???
> 
> bbwb


It is complicated for sure. I do this as a hobby and have never really had to deal behind the curtain with the wizard. Well I am now learning that it would be nice if it was just a dollar in and dollar out issue but it isn't. I think we will get a handle on it so please be patient and keep checking in and adding what you can.


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## CamperAndy

N7OQ said:


> I like it and agree with everything except I would swap #4 and #5 I don't think a gallery it that important with all the free picture holding sites like Photobucket, why waste the band width if you don't have to.


Fair enough, those two items (4 and 5) are very close and could be interchangeable on the order.

It is important that there be some gallery for members, just determining the amount is the tricky part.


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## Dutchy

Braggus said:


> I would be very surprised (and MAYBE I will be) if ANY of the Koala Club Members paid the $$ because of or in order to get the perks.


Yep. Never used the perks that I know of, considered it a donation to support the site.
[/quote]

Ditto! Don't use any of the perks here. My husband and I paid the money to help support the site period. We may not post much, but when searching this site for mods and places to camp, that's what we get out of it.








[/quote]

Same here.
[/quote]
X3
[/quote]
x4. Like to read the mods etc. Don't post much.


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## Piecemaker

I either dont post a whole lot but do a lot of lurking and learning. I will say I have learned tons from this site

As many many others I also will be disappointed to see this site go. Hopefully it can pull together and continue as always.

Question: "What do I really need from this site?"

Answer: For it to continue.

Should it go, my many thanks to Doug and staff for the past couple years I have been a member.


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## 5th Time Around

Dutchy said:


> I would be very surprised (and MAYBE I will be) if ANY of the Koala Club Members paid the $$ because of or in order to get the perks.


Yep. Never used the perks that I know of, considered it a donation to support the site.
[/quote]

Ditto! Don't use any of the perks here. My husband and I paid the money to help support the site period. We may not post much, but when searching this site for mods and places to camp, that's what we get out of it.








[/quote]

Same here.
[/quote]
X3
[/quote]
x4. Like to read the mods etc. Don't post much.
[/quote]

I didn't join for perks but to show my support for the best family friendly forum out there! I'd just like to see the site stay alive and all the great information saved.


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## 5th Time Around

thefulminator said:


> The post started out asking the question "what is important" as to features of this site. Perhaps it should be changed to "what is not important". I went back to the original topic when the whole membership/Koala Club issue started and made a condensed list of the features of each level of participation. My opinion is that each member take a look at the list to remind you of what each membership level included, then decide what you don't need. There is a lot of information as to what level received what service. It will be much easier to determine what you want if all the information is in front of you.
> 
> Original membership topic


After reviewing this again and refreshing my memory, I only want access to the forums and limited pm's. I do not use the chat/blog/galleries/email and I do not need 600 pm's. I did contribute to a lifetime membership because I wanted to keep the site alive. I never have been bias of those who do not contribute. I am opposed to advertising, so make the site a pay for use site and charge some reasonable fee.


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too

I didn't join for perks but to show my support for the best family friendly forum out there! I'd just like to see the site stay alive and all the great information saved.
[/quote]

Well said!


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## K. Smith

I don't post much, but I lurk quite a bit--mostly in the mods and problem/solutions sections. I really don't want to see this site go away because of financial reasons. I've often wondered if the club members get an annual financial report on the site. If they are paying $100 annually (or was it a one-time charge?) they deserve to know exactly what their $100 is going (or in this case, since the money has obviously run out, _went_) towards.

Ultimately, the posts are what is most important to me on a forum. The search is mandatory. I found this thread doing a search because I couldn't find any more info on the closing down thing that what pdx_doug posted.

If I owned this site, without hesitation, I would start running targeted ads. I go to powerstroke.org and I can honestly say that I go to their advertisers for my truck "stuff" purchases. I feel that it's my way of supporting the site. I would do the same for this site.

I would also limit the amount (and/or size) of pictures people can put up. imageshack.com does a fine job and is easy to use for forum pictures. We should learn to use sites like that.

I can tell you one thing, if this site is truly going away on April 22, on April 21 I will "scrape" every mods and problems/solutions post on here. There is too much valuable information here to just be tossed into the "bit-bucket" because the financial and/or personal resources ran out.

Ultimately, making this a non-profit organization (i.e. a Club) with a Chairman/Treasurer/Secretary is the best long-term solution.

Kevin


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## Camping Family From MI

CamperAndy said:


> Everyone I want to express my thanks for the effort everyone has made in their contribution to this thread. In less then 24 hours we have had a great response and I will try to recap here. Everything in the first list will be by its importance not to its cost.
> 
> 1 - Maintain the current database
> 2 - Support #1 from a stable server
> 3 - Solid search functionality
> 4 - Basic gallery support
> 5 - Basic PM support
> 
> As for the monetary support of the site the following appears to be important or acceptable.
> 
> 1 - Donations with accountability and tracking.
> 2 - Some non intrusive ads that are forum relevant.
> 3 - If possible have item 2 turned off if a member makes a donation.
> 
> Things that are not important, there is no top or bottom of this list.
> 
> Blogging, site supported e-mail address, multiple galleries, large PM storage, status recognition for donation.
> 
> Now what I would like to do is refine this list, even if you have already posted please re post to indicate that this list is accurate or where it needs adjustment.
> 
> Also for those of you out there with direct and current knowledge of hosting providers, tell me who do you think would be best at the top 5 most important items. Please provide links to the provider.


Sounds like you definitely have it figured out. Your list encompasses what I feel is most important too. Although I have not contributed yet, you can count me in for $5 or $10 contribution for this year.

This site not only helped me make a decision on what camper to buy, but also on many mods. I would hate to see it go.








Thank you to all that have kept this site running and all the wonderful Outbackers for sharing their knowledge.

Kelly


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## SLO250RS

I will say this.THIS SITE IS THE REASON I OWN A OUTBACK.I know I do not post much but when I do i hope it helps.I would like to see some gallery space and dump it every six months(is this possible?)get rid of the unused forums,email and chat.I would not mind some advertising from camping or towing or truck accesories related companies within reason.


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## mswalt

I have always liked this site. I've met many good people on here and will continue to meet with them and camp with them long after Outbackers is gone (if and when it does shut down). I, too, am a Koala Club member, not for perks (wasn't even sure I had any perks), but because I know it costs money to run something like Outbackers and I gave because I wanted to help.

That being said, I really don't think we need a lot of stuff here. I need a forum and that's about it. Pictures are nice, but if I have to link to an off-site link for them, that's fine. I only read those topics that appeal to me, and I don't always read all of them (like this one, for instance---8 pages is too much to read at any one time) so I skipped to the end and made this post. I just like reading about trailers and camping and spending time with friends.

As long as Outbackers is around (I am a charter member...look at my member number), I'll continue to read here and participate. I hope y'all can figure out how to keep it.

Thanks for all you have done.

Mark


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## etrailer

Google AdSense tailors it's ads to what the users are interested in. If you're into camping and towing and spend your internet time doing that, those are the ads you'll see. I've seen a lot of forums adopt the Google AdSense program to help sustain their site, and there are a lot of manufacturers and retailers in the industry that advertise with them.

http://www.google.com/ads/


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## N7OQ

etrailer said:


> Google AdSense tailors it's ads to what the users are interested in. If you're into camping and towing and spend your internet time doing that, those are the ads you'll see. I've seen a lot of forums adopt the Google AdSense program to help sustain their site, and there are a lot of manufacturers and retailers in the industry that advertise with them.
> 
> http://www.google.com/ads/


I really like the ad idea, I like finding new retailers where I can compare some shop saves me from searching for them. Since I live in a little podunk town I spend more money via the internet than I do local. I would love to have rv companies as members who we can talk deals and learn about the marketing trends, even Outbacker deals. There could be a separate forum just for this so those who are not interested would not have to read it.


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## jake's outback

So I copied and pasted below... repetition I know. I will gladly pay to use the site/ keep it alive.
Minor change below is in bold.

1 - Maintain the current database
2 - Support #1 from a stable server
3 - Solid search functionality
4 - Basic gallery support
5 - Basic PM support

As for the monetary support of the site the following appears to be important or acceptable.

1 - Donations with accountability and tracking.
2 - Some non intrusive ads that are forum relevant.
3 - If possible have item 2 turned off if a member makes a donation, *or provide a button to the member to turn on/off*

Thanks to all for the Past, Present and the Future...


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## john7349

jake said:


> So I copied and pasted below... repetition I know. I will gladly pay to use the site/ keep it alive.
> Minor change below is in bold.
> 
> 1 - Maintain the current database
> 2 - Support #1 from a stable server
> 3 - Solid search functionality
> 4 - Basic gallery support
> 5 - Basic PM support
> 
> As for the monetary support of the site the following appears to be important or acceptable.
> 
> 1 - Donations with accountability and tracking.
> 2 - Some non intrusive ads that are forum relevant.
> 3 - If possible have item 2 turned off if a member makes a donation, *or provide a button to the member to turn on/off*
> 
> Thanks to all for the Past, Present and the Future...


Thats a good idea... When a member makes a donation, a button will appear. That way, the paying member has control of the viewable advertising.


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## jake's outback

john7349 said:


> So I copied and pasted below... repetition I know. I will gladly pay to use the site/ keep it alive.
> Minor change below is in bold.
> 
> 1 - Maintain the current database
> 2 - Support #1 from a stable server
> 3 - Solid search functionality
> 4 - Basic gallery support
> 5 - Basic PM support
> 
> As for the monetary support of the site the following appears to be important or acceptable.
> 
> 1 - Donations with accountability and tracking.
> 2 - Some non intrusive ads that are forum relevant.
> 3 - If possible have item 2 turned off if a member makes a donation, *or provide a button to the member to turn on/off*
> 
> Thanks to all for the Past, Present and the Future...


Thats a good idea... When a member makes a donation, a button will appear. That way, the paying member has control of the viewable advertising.
[/quote]

Control... give me control of my experience here... I can see as many adds for stuff, or perhaps i can set my preference for adds i get (TV/Trailer adds/ campsites) something like a stumble button...perhaps.

Pat


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## Partsman Ed

Approaching dealers with the enticement of "free advertising" as a source of revenue could work, also having an active buy/sell area for people-where members can advertise something for a nominal fee or free up to 100 words









That is my two-cents worth.....


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## Stewart

This site could be set up like http://www.ramforumz.com/ or I may have a solution for hosting contact me PM.


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## sonic2

I would like only 1 feature. Sometimes you put a picture in your gallery that you later decided you don't want OR after you add it you discover it is not sized properly so you have to re-size and add the same picture again with a different size and some pictures are obsolute. Currently, there is no way to delete them. I would like a feature to delete pictures from my gallery. At present, you have to delete the entire gallery and start over or contact the administrator to delete them for you. I don't have many pictures but a couple of times I experienced the size problem and had to add a duplicate picture. That take ups storage space.

Otherwise, I like the site and the people that use it. I surfed a couple of other sites and the people are not as friendly and kind. This site and "Dog and Trailer" are the only RV sites I will visit for information. IT'S ABOUT THE PEOPLE! Thank you to everyone that keeps this site alive.


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## CamperAndy

sonic2 said:


> I would like only 1 feature. Sometimes you put a picture in your gallery that you later decided you don't want OR after you add it you discover it is not sized properly so you have to re-size and add the same picture again with a different size and some pictures are obsolute. Currently, there is no way to delete them. I would like a feature to delete pictures from my gallery. At present, you have to delete the entire gallery and start over or contact the administrator to delete them for you. I don't have many pictures but a couple of times I experienced the size problem and had to add a duplicate picture. That take ups storage space.
> 
> Otherwise, I like the site and the people that use it. I surfed a couple of other sites and the people are not as friendly and kind. This site and "Dog and Trailer" are the only RV sites I will visit for information. IT'S ABOUT THE PEOPLE! Thank you to everyone that keeps this site alive.


To maintain full control of your pictures then I recommend you use one of the many photo hosting sites on the web and then link the photo into your posts.


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## Red Beard

Andy, 
I can honestly say that Outbackers was an influence in the purchase of our Outback. 
The lack of brand bashing, arguments carried out on the forum regarding opinions, religion or politics is great but as someone else pointed out the "people" here at Outbackers make it special forum. 
The advice and help offered by everyone here at Outbackers is outstanding. I believe that this in large part due to the members here at Outbackers sharing a similar desire to help one another. 
Unfortunately, the current situation here at Outbackers is tenuous. Until things are resolved pertaining to the longevity and sustainability of this site I believe that it will be very difficult to attract paying members and/or sponsors. Ultimately, the confidence that the site is under responsible leadership/management has to be restored. 
Andy you reaching out in this manor I believe is likely giving people some confidence. In my opinion you have always been a viewed as professional and factual in your responses. Thus gaining the respect of members! 
While I understand that this site has been financed through member donations, I found it odd that advertisements are viewed with some distain. Yes there are pro's and con's to each method of financial support. 
In my opinion; Outbackers should have a separate advertisers section, within this section companies like Hollman and ETrailer (to mention a few) could advertise and respond to members direct questions. If their products don't work as advertised I am certain that they will be called out here on the forum, constructively of course. Essentially advertisers will have to make a good product or hear about the faults. This could also restore things like customer service as well as quality products. 
A suggestion, full members could receive discounts. Although, with selling advertising space would their still be a need for paid memberships? A suggestion would be to have paid memberships and use the funds to support some sort of charity&#8230;maybe sending kids to camp. The members would get discounts and added perks as well as knowing that their money went to a charity vs. profit. 
Ultimately I would like to see the site succeed!

You wanted suggestion on how to make the site better: 
	Keep the forum as is regarding remarks that bash people, religion and politics. 
	Make the search better i.e. when searching for "how to hook up two 12v batteries" lets see the results that pertain to the search topic. 
	Allow the advertisers to pay for the daily and long term operational costs. 
	A newsletter that discusses financial statements would be good in keeping it all above board.

I am optimistic that with the proper leadership and an open constructive dialog that this site can succeed. 
I will continue to quietly watch the events unfold and hope for the best. 
Best of luck to those of you working behind the monitor working towards a successful future for Outbackers!!! 
Best regards, 
Joe


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## Mgonzo2u

So many people use this place as a part of their daily read, I suggest a clickable link (NO GRAPHICS or .GIF works) to AMAZON.com be implemented.

Its the largest on-line seller anywhere. The forum gets a bit of each sale when the link is used and we (the forum users that make this place







of any efforts to keep it around) don't have to see big old ads up in our face.

Beyond that, like I have always had issues with since the earliest days of this place, the mods need to reign in their forever overzealous need to make judgement in regards to someones intent within a post.

Like in all forums, the chaff will be seperated from the wheat by the regulars.


----------

