# Well They Killed Her Over Oil And Filter Change



## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

Took the truck in today for the reflash so I went ahead and had them change the oil and filter and fuel filters. Was to pick it up after hours so they left it out for me. It started up but ran like hell so I got scared and turned it off and raised the hood to make sure she was full of oil. Bad noises were coming from under the hood when running. Everything looked ok so I tried firing her back up but she wouldn't hit a lick. I'm thinking airlock but I called the owner of the dealership and he came out and called the diesel tech and he's scratching his head. I'm due to leave Thursday and needless to say I'm on the verge of freaking out. They sent me home a regular cab longbed with 107,000 miles on it so unless they get it figured out quick I'm screwed. Any ideas on the problem and potential damage?


----------



## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

I wish you the best.

I can't think of any reason an oil chance and filters would cause a problem if it started after,be it rough starting but should even out quickly 30-60 seconds max fuel related not oil, it sounds like (Cummins experience only) it's missing and stumbling until it's up to pressure on the fuel side, oil pressure is almost instantaneous.

If their diesel tech is stumped do you have another dealer close by? Your saying "Bad Noises" under the hood, like metal on metal contact?

Sounds like another flash issue









Bill wishing a fix by Thursday.

Edit.

A good source for info on the 6.0L is http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads 
if you didn't already know.

Bill.


----------



## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

2500Ram said:


> I wish you the best.
> 
> I can't think of any reason an oil chance and filters would cause a problem if it started after,be it rough starting but should even out quickly 30-60 seconds max fuel related not oil, it sounds like (Cummins experience only) it's missing and stumbling until it's up to pressure on the fuel side, oil pressure is almost instantaneous.
> 
> ...


Thanks Bill. I having computer problems and can't post on the diesel sites and so far haven't found anything relevant on prior posts. The oil pressure came right up when I first started it but it sounded so bad I didn't let it run very long. I'm thinking it's airlocked from the fuel filter changes but I don't know a whole lot about diesels interworkings and there was a bad slam when I tried restarting it. I think a good stiff drink followed by a good nights sleep is the best start for now. The mechanic said it ran fine and it obviously was running when they finished as it was moved outside a fair distance from the shop. On top of it all the bill was over $300 for the oil change, fuel filter change and rotate the tires.


----------



## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

I'd be plane with them, tell them to get it running or they can start reibursing you for losses (time off, lost vacation, camping fees etc.) they had the truck and it stopped working after they worked on it - finger pointing at dealership. I've heard mixed things about the reflash, I haven't taken mine in and probably won't until late summer and I've had a chance to hear how the reflashes are working out long term. The dealer can, if they want, get you a truck to tow your camper with but you'll need to be firm (not rude) and make your point loud and clear. Then tell them for $300 they should have washed and waxed the truck. That is a serious hose job IMHO. I get tires rotated for free at our tire dealership even though I still have the stock (junk) Conti's and an oil change runs about $65-75. Man I hope they have it figured out by morning I dread being in your situation before a trip. Good luck and let us know how things go.


----------



## oiler (Jan 5, 2005)

you had Oil pressure so it's likely not a forgetful lube guy.
It did make it out of the shop so you'd have to assume that the fuel filter and system had been primed (I always take the Dmaxes for a test run after a filter change, i've had a couple airlock and quit after a couple miles).
If they also did a reflash it's possible that they messed up the programming.
Either by downloading the wrong program or letting battery voltage run low during the operation.
I know the first thing I'd do would be to prime it and see if it starts.
Step 2 would be getting the scanner and verifying my programming.
Good luck
Jeff


----------



## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

oiler said:


> you had Oil pressure so it's likely not a forgetful lube guy.
> It did make it out of the shop so you'd have to assume that the fuel filter and system had been primed (I always take the Dmaxes for a test run after a filter change, i've had a couple airlock and quit after a couple miles).
> If they also did a reflash it's possible that they messed up the programming.
> Either by downloading the wrong program or letting battery voltage run low during the operation.
> ...


How do you prime the engine after the fuel filters are changed? There's two on the '05 and one is mounted on it's side on the frame rail. I'm asking this because I'll be doing it myself from now on. I'm not paying that price for the job.


----------



## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

Y-Guy said:


> I'd be plane with them, tell them to get it running or they can start reibursing you for losses (time off, lost vacation, camping fees etc.) they had the truck and it stopped working after they worked on it - finger pointing at dealership. I've heard mixed things about the reflash, I haven't taken mine in and probably won't until late summer and I've had a chance to hear how the reflashes are working out long term.Â The dealer can, if they want, get you a truck to tow your camper with but you'll need to be firm (not rude) and make your point loud and clear.Â Then tell them for $300 they should have washed and waxed the truck.Â That is a serious hose job IMHO.Â I get tires rotated for free at our tire dealership even though I still have the stock (junk) Conti's and an oil change runs about $65-75.Â Man I hope they have it figured out by morning I dread being in your situation before a trip.Â Good luck and let us know how things go.
> [snapback]100453[/snapback]​


Unfortunately I am sure that NasCarCamper signed that little waiver that no one reads when you bring you car in -- it bascially says that anything we do to tear up your car they are no fault with ... my free marginal advice is to be really "sweet" to these guys and tell them that you have been planning this vacation for a while and that your kids willbe heartbroken and that you have several thousands of non-refundable cash at stake -- yes LIE....

The one big thing that covers you is that it is NOT off of the dealers lot yet -- unfortunately that does not mean that they will fix it for free -- anything they do to it, even though it ran fine going in and crappy out the door, is still legally your responsibility -- unless you can prove a direct correlation of something they did...

personally -- sounds like the fuel filters....

good luck -- be nice -- try fake crying if you can... but DON'T get upset in front of them ... but STAY in their face ....

Now if they are going to charge you here is what you do...

Dealerships are rated by their manufacturers.

If you start getting the run around ask to talk to the Service Mgr...

If that is not working tell him that you need to call the GM/Ford whatever rep directly and get their input -- 99% of the time just saying that amkes all probelms suddenly go away...

Of course saying "I'm going to ^%*& get a lawyer and sue you, your dealership and your dog also works" -- LOL


----------



## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

Ghosty said:


> Y-Guy said:
> 
> 
> > I'd be plane with them, tell them to get it running or they can start reibursing you for losses (time off, lost vacation, camping fees etc.) they had the truck and it stopped working after they worked on it - finger pointing at dealership. I've heard mixed things about the reflash, I haven't taken mine in and probably won't until late summer and I've had a chance to hear how the reflashes are working out long term.Â The dealer can, if they want, get you a truck to tow your camper with but you'll need to be firm (not rude) and make your point loud and clear.Â Then tell them for $300 they should have washed and waxed the truck.Â That is a serious hose job IMHO.Â I get tires rotated for free at our tire dealership even though I still have the stock (junk) Conti's and an oil change runs about $65-75.Â Man I hope they have it figured out by morning I dread being in your situation before a trip.Â Good luck and let us know how things go.
> ...


I didn't sign anything when I dropped it off. At least not that I recall. I've had work done there in the past on my Exploder that I refuse to get rid of until the warranty runs out. I've had so much trouble with it Ford gave me the Premium Extended care warranty. It goes in Thursday when we leave for the 3rd Easter break in a row. It's almost always after hours and I never sign anything for it either. The owner was really good to me last night and gave me a loaner to come home with even though I was riding with my wife so she wouldn't have to take me back once repairs were complete. I bought the truck from a dealer that is now out of business so that doesn't help either although I did buy my son's truck from them. I'm thinking of using the angle of future sales to negotiate this rediculous charge and hopefully get better service to boot. Thanks for the advice. I'd be there right now looking over their shoulder but they're 70 miles away. I probably won't have to fake the crying if the trip gets booted. The extended forecast for the keys is mid 80's and sunning through next Wed.


----------



## Txcamper (Apr 3, 2006)

Changing the fuel filters is a quick and easy job. I try to do as much as I can on my truck because I know I can do a better job that the dealer most of the time.

I hate to take it to the dealer although I just brought it in for the reflash yesterday before our trip this weekend.


----------



## Txcamper (Apr 3, 2006)

You drain the fuel from the frame water separator first, then pull both the frame and top mounted filter. Use a pan on the frame mounted filter to catch the diesel. Then put in the new filters, screw down the plastic covers, and torque to the specs listed on the covers. It is not much torque. Then just start the engine.

How did you talk them into the extra warranty coverage?


----------



## OutbackPM (Sep 14, 2005)

nascarcamper
Someone in my office has a 05 F350 and recently had a reflash and he said it runs worse when first started compared to prior to the reflash. Have you been to the dieselstop forum for Ford diesels? I think you will get your best info from there if the dealer is that stuck.

The best of luck to you

David


----------



## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

Txcamper said:


> You drain the fuel from the frame water separator first, then pull both the frame and top mounted filter. Use a pan on the frame mounted filter to catch the diesel. Then put in the new filters, screw down the plastic covers, and torque to the specs listed on the covers. It is not much torque. Then just start the engine.
> 
> How did you talk them into the extra warranty coverage?
> [snapback]100490[/snapback]​


I was on the verge of a lemon law case. The dealer had not done the proper documentation so I couldn't make them buy it back at that point so as a compromise between the dealer and I they convinced Ford to provide the extended coverage. The front crankshaft oil pan seal is leaking now so this makes the 14th time it's been in for repairs in less than four years. 9 of them was in the first year. After you replace the fuel filters do you have to purge the air out of the system some way? I've heard you have to soak the frame rail filter overnight to avoid air lock but that's not coming from the dealer. I just called and they're working on it and are saying their diesel guy had the same problem with his so he thinks he knows what the problem is. When I pick it up I WILL get a full explanation on what the deal was and will post it.


----------



## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

What is the chance that the oil change guy initially forgot to put oil in it, fired it up and heard a horrible noise, then added oil? I worked in a shop for years and stranger things have happened, believe me.

Reverie


----------



## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

nascarcamper said:


> Txcamper said:
> 
> 
> > How did you talk them into the extra warranty coverage?
> ...


You lost me a little on this -- but how did the dealer not doing the proper documentation stop you from exercising the lemon law? Its YOUR documentation and not the DEALER that is the requirement. Perhaps your state is different but i am pretty familiar with Lemon Laws -- been through a few of them and have a pretty good batting avg -- but normaly lemon laws boil down to either the amount of days its in the shop or the amount of times a specific repair has been performed and just wondering about what you meant about documentation....


----------



## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

Hope they remembered to fill the crankcase after they drained it.


----------



## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

Ghosty said:


> nascarcamper said:
> 
> 
> > Txcamper said:
> ...


They weren't billing ford and they were having the work done at other body shops. The main issue was the leaking rear window which by the way still leaks. According to the dealer Ford would only pay them one time to fix it so they never generated the proper paperwork thus no paper trail. I did go to the body shop myself and got the documentation for part of it but they hadn't billed the dealership every time either because they couldn't figure it out either. Long story short the documentation wasn't there and I didn't know at the time that the dealer should have been giving me warranty sheets. Hard lesson learned but in the end I felt the extended warranty would suit me better than a new Exploder as apparently they all leak it just most people don't notice or care because it runs into the liftgate and out the rear of the vehicle.


----------



## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Wait a minute, they do not do the paperwork and its your fault? If its in there computer that work was done regardless of who they told, something stinks.
You bring your truck in to them, where they send it to get fixed is not in your hands. I am looking forward to Ghosty's response.

John


----------



## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

All is well!!!





















6.0L diesel owners take notice. As explained in great detail with exhibits by the diesel guy at the dealership: There is actually two fuel pumps on the '03 and up trucks and of course the two fuel filter. One on the top of the engine and the other on the frame under the drivers side. The one on top of the engine is nothing special and a simple changeout. The other one actually has cogs on it that have to line up with a plunger inside the fuel pump. Well mine didn't line up so she ran long enough to use up the fuel that was topside and that was it. They have been trying to figure this out for quite some time as they have trouble with some and others go right. They even replaced fuel pumps on several trucks and since they come with the filters already installed they worked without any problems. When installing the filter you just have to put the filter in place and turn slightly until it engages with the cogs then put the cap on and snug it up. Not easy to get to on a 4wd I must add. It makes quite a mess. Txcamper either you already knew that or you've been lucky. Thanks guys.


----------



## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)




----------



## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Good bit of info, there, Nascar!

I'm sure all the PSD owners will take note.









Happy Trails,
Doug


----------



## krstevis (Feb 12, 2006)

Hello,

Hope this may help. I am a 16 year diesel tech from a Ford dealer in california. I have had to take over diag. of a hard start, rough idle and knock after both fuel filters have been changed. These symptoms are caused by airated fuel. What I have suggested to our service techs is to replace the primary fuel filter, remove the secondary fuel filter, do not install the new one yet, leave the secondary fuel cap off, turn the key on. this will energize the fuel pump, and watch for airated fuel. The fuel pump runs at about 45 to 55psi and will fill that housing quickly so some help would be a good idea. DO NOT CRANK ENGINE. The fuel will normaly have some small bubles, it should not look foamy. You may have to remove some fuel if you have to do it more than once. After I have "burped" the system I will use a chemical bulb or some other type of suction devise to remove enough fuel from the housing as to avoid any spillage. Install filter and the cap, cycle the key on then off twice, start the engine and look for leaks. Diesel engines will sound like they are going to blow up when their fuel is airated. Good luck, it should be fine.


----------



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Glad everything worked out. You sure had us all pumped up and ready to circle the troops around that dealer if things hadn't worked out....


----------



## Txcamper (Apr 3, 2006)

nascarcamper said:


> All is well!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Both filters are identical, they are the same part number. You lost me a little, but the filter on the frame snaps into the cap which you then screw back in place. You have carefully reinstall it to prevent dirt/debris from touching the filter or falling into the housing.


----------



## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

Reverie said:


> What is the chance that the oil change guy initially forgot to put oil in it, fired it up and heard a horrible noise, then added oil? I worked in a shop for years and stranger things have happened, believe me.
> 
> Reverie
> [snapback]100498[/snapback]​


Really good point.

I hope it works out for you. Good Luck

Thor


----------



## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

Txcamper said:


> nascarcamper said:
> 
> 
> > All is well!!!
> ...


----------



## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

Sorry got that last post backwards and don't know how to fix it.


----------



## Txcamper (Apr 3, 2006)

I just got mine back from the latest reflash and it runs fine. As far as allowing anyone else to change my oil/filter, transmission filter, and fuel filters I don't trust anyone else to do as good a job. The don't have the vested interest of thousands.

These trucks are expensive and should be more trouble free. If Toyota makes a super duty size pickup in diesel Ford will lose lots of customers. I'll just wait till it is out a few years before going back to Toyota. I enjoy driving my F250, I like the room and fell of the truck. The reliability is just not as good as my previous two Toyota trucks. The plus on the Ford side is towing, weight capacity, and mileage.


----------



## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

Txcamper said:


> I just got mine back from the latest reflash and it runs fine. As far as allowing anyone else to change my oil/filter, transmission filter, and fuel filters I don't trust anyone else to do as good a job. The don't have the vested interest of thousands.
> 
> These trucks are expensive and should be more trouble free. If Toyota makes a super duty size pickup in diesel Ford will lose lots of customers. I'll just wait till it is out a few years before going back to Toyota. I enjoy driving my F250, I like the room and fell of the truck. The reliability is just not as good as my previous two Toyota trucks. The plus on the Ford side is towing, weight capacity, and mileage.
> [snapback]101148[/snapback]​


I with you on the oil changes etc. I usually do my own but it was going in for the reflash and i was short on time so in a pinch I let them handle it. Kind of glad in a way because of the filter issue but now I know how it works I'll be doing it myself from now on.


----------



## Bull Elk (Feb 28, 2005)

nascarcamper said:


> Txcamper said:
> 
> 
> > I just got mine back from the latest reflash and it runs fine.Â As far as allowing anyone else to change my oil/filter, transmission filter, and fuel filters I don't trust anyone else to do as good a job.Â The don't have the vested interest of thousands.Â
> ...


Isn't it sad that this do it yourself versus the dealers is even a topic of discussion. You would think that Ford/GM/Dodge mechanics would be trained well enough to master the oil change. What am I missing here? Afterall, it is not like we are talking about labelling the black tank or anything that complex!









Rich


----------



## Theycallusthebreeze (Jan 28, 2006)

Hey you guys, just out of curiosity, what is 'Reflash'???


----------



## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

Theycallusthebreeze said:


> Hey you guys, just out of curiosity, what is 'Reflash'???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It just a programming update for the computer.


----------



## Theycallusthebreeze (Jan 28, 2006)

Oh, ok thanks. I thought it was something a person needed to do to their diesel truck.














My DH just got a diesel truck and I was going to tell him in case he didn't know! 

By the way, NascarCamper, I'm glad everything worked out for you! Hope you have a great time on your trip!


----------



## Txcamper (Apr 3, 2006)

It is kinda funny when you think abou it.


----------

