# Numbers..... Can I Scream????



## Momto4boys (Sep 24, 2004)

OK now I am totally confused as these numbers might as well be Greek to me. Forget having DH do it because they are GREEK and LATIN to him.

We are having a very rough time pulling our 26RS with our present 99 1/2 ton Burb in which the book says we could tow 6,000 lbs (we have the 5.73 axle ratio and 5.7 liter engine) .. We were told we would be fine before we bought the trailer last March. We are however finding out it just can't do it. We can do it for short close trips (cape cod etc but that is it)

We have 4 kids so with 6 of us it really limits that we can use a pick up truck because the burb also serves as our family car. I have looked for used 3/4 ton burbs but can't find any. Would a newer 1500 burb do OK? (not looking to do mountain driving just trying to get over those darn hills on the MASS PIKE.)

Anyone pulling with an Expedition (really having a hard time down sizing my back cargo space with this vehicle. HELP!!! How do I run the numbers????????


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## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

If it says you can tow 6,000 then yes, you have a big problem. Our 01 Yukon XL with the 5.3l V8 and 4.10 gears is rated for 8,100 pounds towing. When loaded up and I am sure our 26 RS is around 6,000 pounds. That means you are at your max towing with the '99. You'll kill it in no time.

Randy


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Momto4boys,

OK, where to start...

I guess first off, your axle ratio is 3.73:1 (5.73:1 and you could pull your house up the side of Mt. Everest!)

The 6,000 pound tow rating of your 'burb is based on a base vehicle (no options, the driver only and a full tank of gas). To get your true tow rating, you must subtract the weight of all the options on the vehicle, passengers and any cargo you are carrying within. I don't know how big your boys are, but let's figure that all adds up to at least a 500 pound reduction in towing capacity (probably a fair amount more). Once you have that weight, the conventional wisdom is that you should limit your actual towing weight to about 80% of the available capacity. You and your 'burb will be much happier with a little cushion there!









Now, as far as the Outback is concerned, Keystone lists a dry weight of 5,185 pounds. Right there, you are probably over your available towing capacity, and Keystone is notorious for listing weights much lighter than they really are. Again, that rating is for a base model with no options, empty tanks and no cargo. I find the safer numbe to use is the trailers Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. That is the heaviest the trailer should ever be. You may not be that heavy, but you will probably be close. In the case of the 26RS, that is 7,000 pounds.

Bottom line, as you have already found, that 1/2 ton 'burb isn't going to get the job done. Sorry!









The 3/4 ton 'burbs seem to be just fine with that kind of load and would be a good choice (if you could find one). The Expedition would also do great, but if your cargo carrying ability is an issue, consider an Excursion. Then you would be increasing carrying ability over the 'burb.

Just a few thoughts.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## 7heaven (Jun 4, 2005)

Momto4Boys, You may want to try ebaymotors.com or autotrader.com

We purchased two vehicles that way. The first we purchased at ebaymotors from a dealer in Texas. He had posted tons of pictures and from talking to him and his eBay rating, we were confident enough to have him ship it to us.

The second time we did purchased a vehicle that way, we went to our local dealer and gave him the name and number of the dealer in Iowa. He arranged to barter with the other dealer for the van and sold it to us locally. Either way can work.

Not sure your price range or exact location, but here are a couple:

2003 Burb K2500

Similar 2003 Model

Good Luck!!!


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## kbrazielTx (Apr 29, 2004)

We use a 2001 1/2 Ton Burb to tow our new 28RSDS and towed a 26RS for almost 2 years before that. The Burb has to work a little but it has no problem keeping speeds around 60-65 (Could Go Faster). That is as fast as I would recommend going anyway with a trailer. We notice about a 5-10MPH slowdown on the hills but it does great on the flats. I keep it in 3rd but could use overdrive on the flats but I do not want the gear changes that would possibly burnup the tranny.

Sounds like the newer Burbs are built more for the job.

Good Luck...
KB


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

Momto4boys,

Are you sure you have a 3.73 ratio? The 6K tow rating sounds like a 3.55 or 3.42 rear. That would make a little more sense. Look for the codes inside you glove box, and find the code that begins in "Z", I think.....

You could also call your local dealer and give them the last 6 digits of your vin and they can tell you. Fire44 may chiime in here. He is our resident "Bowtie" dealer.

Have you considered the Crew Cap P/U and a cap? Nevermind, you probably need the third row.

Anyway, Happy Outbacking!

Tim


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

How about a Nissan Armada???

Hootbob pulls his 26RS just fine with his.....usually 6 people in it also.

Steve


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## bill_pfaff (Mar 11, 2005)

I think in your case "Bigger is Better"

I'm pulling a 25Rss with a 1500 3:73 rear (always out of OD and never over 60 MPH) and it lets me know it is behind me, even on the flat lands of Delaware.

I do some foot hill of PA but I try to keep it under 50-55 there.

Don't know much about Ford or Dodge capabilities but I would say which ever way you went, do your homework. The dealer will without a doubt tell you what you want to hear even if it is only "Sort of true".

I think the biggest thing you need to watch is the rear. The Suburban and Excursion come with big enough engines, it's the rear that determines whether you get the towing or gas mileage and I have found that most of the vehicles on the lot are geared for mileage.

My 2 cents.
Bill


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## Morrowmd (Feb 22, 2005)

Highlander96 said:


> Momto4boys,
> 
> Are you sure you have a 3.73 ratio? The 6K tow rating sounds like a 3.55 or 3.42 rear. That would make a little more sense. Look for the codes inside you glove box, and find the code that begins in "Z", I think.....
> 
> ...


The 5.7L Burbs & Tahoes had a lower tow rating- 6000# is probably right. I was looking at my Dad's owners manual and noticed this.

The 5.3L engine in 2000 & newer models actually has more HP & towing capacity.

Mom,

If you can't find a 3/4 ton Burb in your price range, see if you can find a 2000 or newer 1/2 ton with 4.10 gears. That should make a noticeable difference.


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## Humpty (Apr 20, 2005)

Agree - If you go with the 1/2 Ton 'Burb, make sure the gear ratio is 4.10

(Wish mine was)


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

OK I will jump in now.....

If you will email me the last 8 digits of your VIN I might be able to pull up the spec's on your truck.

I am pulling a 27RSDS with a 1500 Suburban with a 5.3L and 3.73 ratio, it does the job but will work in the hills. The max trailer weight on my Suburban is 7200 pounds so it has all that it can handle.

Gary


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## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

You say your ruling out a crew cab pickup, but they hold six. Mine has a bench front and rear and carries 6 adults just fine. The wheelbase is longer than a burb and they come in a 5.3L or now a 6.0L in the chevy's. I pull my 29BHS with 4 people and gear with a 3.42 rear and have no problems so far in the northeast. Going to Delaware in April, downhill, i'll let you know when I come back up the hill.


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

nynethead said:


> You say your ruling out a crew cab pickup, but they hold six. Mine has a bench front and rear and carries 6 adults just fine. The wheelbase is longer than a burb and they come in a 5.3L or now a 6.0L in the chevy's. I pull my 29BHS with 4 people and gear with a 3.42 rear and have no problems so far in the northeast. Going to Delaware in April, downhill, i'll let you know when I come back up the hill.
> [snapback]94107[/snapback]​


Hey...you didn't ask me if you could come to Delaware
















When are you coming through???

Gary


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Fire44 said:


> nynethead said:
> 
> 
> > You say your ruling out a crew cab pickup, but they hold six.Â Mine has a bench front and rear and carries 6 adults just fine.Â The wheelbase is longer than a burb and they come in a 5.3L or now a 6.0L in the chevy's.Â I pull my 29BHS with 4 people and gear with a 3.42 rear and have no problems so far in the northeast.Â Going to Delaware in April, downhill, i'll let you know when I come back up the hill.
> ...


Depending on his route thru, I could meet him for coffee in NJ.









John


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

tdvffjohn said:


> Fire44 said:
> 
> 
> > nynethead said:
> ...


I'm hearing 2 Mini NE Rally's forming here! (and if you'll think of the rest of us while you're drinking that coffee you'll bump both Minis up to the next level!)


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## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

Fire44,

We are coming the week before easter when the kids are off school. Figure it will be warmer south. My cousin and I are bringing the group to the Cherry Hill Park.
They said they have paved roads for the bicycles and it allows us to wake up the rigs early. He has a huge 36' Raptor toy hauler he drags around with his f350 diesel and I have my little 29BHS in comparison. We are still debating on what days to venture looks like Wednesday the 12th through Saturday. but it could be Saturday the 8th to the 12th. I'll keep you posted.


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

nynethead said:


> Fire44,
> 
> We are coming the week before easter when the kids are off school. Figure it will be warmer south. My cousin and I are bringing the group to the Cherry Hill Park.
> They said they have paved roads for the bicycles and it allows us to wake up the rigs early. He has a huge 36' Raptor toy hauler he drags around with his f350 diesel and I have my little 29BHS in comparison. We are still debating on what days to venture looks like Wednesday the 12th through Saturday. but it could be Saturday the 8th to the 12th. I'll keep you posted.
> [snapback]94132[/snapback]​


So, are you going to DC? If so, God love ya!!!!

Have a great spring break trip...

Happy Outbacking!

Tim


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## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

John,

Ok drag you camper out from bergen and join us. Your girls are the right ages. My boys are almost 5 and 7 and my cousin has two boys 4 & 8 and a daughter 10.

When we go away for a week he puts everything into his 12' compartment of his toy hauler. Last year with 3 families he was carrying a dozen bicycle and more pots and pans than you could count


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

That would be fun, but the DW cannot get off during the week. Where is the campground?

John


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## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

john,

College Park Delaware

http://www.cherryhillpark.com/index.html

Never been there, we just thought it was a little further south of NJ and might be a little warmer.

This summer we have two family vacations down at Avalon campgrounds in Clermont. These are our beach vacations. One in July and the second in August.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

One never knows whats possible.









John


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

I got your email and the truck does have a 3.73 ratio rear, the trailering package and a 5.7 liter V-8. I don't have the 1999 books anymore to verify the towing capacity of the truck. I hope this helps a little. I did look at the 2004 towing info.....(the last year GM has online) and it is showing a 04 Suburban 1500 with a 5.3L and 3.73 ratio rated for 7200 lbs. The 2500 is rated for 7600 with the 6.0 and 3.73 and 9600 with the 6.0 and 4.10.

Gary


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## shake1969 (Sep 21, 2004)

The curb weight on my navigator is 5,723 pounds. Yep, over 2 tons. Don't stop fast in front of one of these.

The 4x2 version is rated for 8100 tow weight. But I wouldn't do it. Heck, I think the 21RS is enough behind her.

Go with a 3/4 Burb, with the 6.0 and the 4.10's.

You'll be much happier.


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

A quick check with Goggle, and I found the Trailer Life 1999 Towing Guide

It looks like the 2WD 5.7L/3.73:1 equipped Suburban did in fact have a 6500# max trailer wgt, and a 6000# trailer max for a 4x4 would seem reasonable.

Now, I have a 26RS, like your self, and I can tell you, loaded for camping, that baby is pushing the 6000# GVWR of the trailer. I switched to a 3/4 ton truck with a diesel this year (see my sig.) cause I wasn' t happy with the way my 5.3L equipped Avalanche towed it.

What I believe is that you will be much happier with a 3/4 ton burb, as long as you have the means to get a new to you truck right now. If you want to stay with the same year range as your current truck, look for one equipped with the 7.4L (454 c.i.d) big block gas engine. They also came with the 6.5L turbo diesel, but these engines were not great as far as diesels go, and has a lot of problems with the injector pumps, and rails. If you look for something newer, then look at the 6.0L Vortec with 4.10:1 gears, or the 8.1L vortec. Your towing experience will be much better, and you will be happier.

Good Luck with your search.



> The curb weight on my navigator is 5,723 pounds. Yep, over 2 tons.


Gotcha beat shake. My Excursion tips the scales at just short of 8000# That is the truck, with a full tank (44 Gallons @ 7#/gal). Put me in the driver seat, and it is over 4 tons, and I still have 1400# to gross.

Tim


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## Momto4boys (Sep 24, 2004)

Thank you Fire for looking up that info for me. Thanks to everyone else on their input on all their great towing info. Everyone really knows their stuff here.

Most likely we won't be able to do anything about a "new to us" car this spring or summer. I am hoping that maybe by the end of the summer we will be able to start looking. I run my own business and my income really drops during the summer months.

This year we will have to just keep our camping "in state" and on the flats and hopefully we can do a little bit of camping this spring and summer.

We have been in the vicious cycle of tow vehicle/bigger trailer since we bought our first pop-up 12 years ago.

With four kids it really cuts down the vehicles we can buy. What we "should have" done was buy a bad ass 6 passenger truck to tow the trailer with and a cheap mini van (boy have those prices come down) for our family car. The only thing is I doooo loooove our Burb!! It can handle the 6 of us great and the dog (space between each set of boys) and room for two others.

Hey anyone know if there are any 12 passenger vans that can tow?


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Don't know the spec's on the vans, but there are a few people here that tow with a van. I would look at the E250/E350 (Ford) and the G2500/3500 (GM) though.

Here is a fairly comprehensive listing of current 2006 Tow Ratings

Good luck with your search.

Tim


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## SmkSignals (May 2, 2005)

Check on getting the diff upgraded to a 4:10. Might be a cost effective upgrade that could fix your problem ... Good luck with what ever you decide ...


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

> Check on getting the diff upgraded to a 4:10.


Just remember, if you have a 4x4, you'll need to do both the front and rear differentials, doubling you cost.

Tim


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## Not Yet (Dec 13, 2004)

Momto4boys said:


> Hey anyone know if there are any 12 passenger vans that can tow?
> [snapback]94505[/snapback]​


We also have four kids and have been looking at big vans. The Ford e350 with 4.10 and the 6.0L can tow 10000 pounds. Massive room inside and shorter than a burb. Take off 20K between the SUV and van and it all looks pretty good. There was a good article in Trailer Life last year that talked about the towing characteristics of the 12 pax vans being the best bumper pullers on the road. Worth a look.

Jared


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