# New Diesel Decision



## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

OK. After weeks of trying to wrangle a good deal on a used Dodge diesel, I've given up and decided to just bite the bullet and get a new one. They've got $6000 of rebates starting this month on top of the taxes being written off on a new vehicle as part of the stimulus plan this year. I've got it down to two trucks, but I need to decide. They are both 2009 Dodge 2500 SLT Quad Cab 4x4's with the 6.7L Cummins Diesels:

Truck 1: Long (8') bed with a MANUAL 6-speed, and 3.42 axle ratio

Truck 2: Short (6') bed with a 6-speed AUTOMATIC transmission, and 3.73 axle ratio (costs $2100 more than Truck 1)

I can't find any charts that say what the difference in towing capacity is based on the axle ratios. All I kind find is an older chart (2008) with just the 3.73 ratios for each transmission type. According to this chart, the manual long bed can tow 12700lbs and the auto short bed can tow 12900lbs, so not that big of a difference. However, I'm sure it will be reduced more by the 3.42 ratio on the manual. Both trucks can more than handle my trailer, but I plan to keep this truck for a while, so I may upgrade my trailer in the future.

Which one do you think I should get and why?

Thanks!


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

They will both spin the same rpm while rolling down the road. The 3.42 manual will run 70 at 2000 rpms and the auto with 3.73 will run the same. My truck has the early low geared 6 speed and turns 64mph at 2000 rpms with 3.73 gears.

Thru out each gear with an auto versus a manual the gearing is pretty close to the same, so a 3.42 ratio in a manual is close to the auto with a 3.73 thruout each gear 1 thru 6. Hope that makes since.

They will both tow the same weight. Well very close.

The new 6speed auto is a really great trans, Just change the fluid and it will last a long while. We have a bunch of guys with way over 300k on this trans and none of us have heard of a failure when used as an rv hauler. I have heard of guys who tow cars lose them at 100k.

I have over 220k on my 6 speed trans. And from what I am learning with the other guys, its lasting longer than the cast iron tranny it replaced. Guys who tow 3-4 car wedges only see about 150k or so out of them, but us rv hauling guys have had great luck with the G56 6 speed. This trans also has brass syncros. Many of the older trans had fiber syncros.

Now the clutch is another story. I got 85k out of mine, many do not get them to last to 50k, but these guys have big chips in em.. Its a dual mass flywheel deal. There are kits out to convert this back to the single disc style. Napa had them for about 7-800 and it includes a new flywheel. You can also get a heavy duty one for about 1200 including all new hydralics. I wouldnt recommed one unless you tow heavy.

Now saying this, I also know several guys with over 200k on there dual mass units. I bought my truck used and I bet it was abused. If you treat it good, it pretty much does the same back.

I will guarantee that auto trans will last 150k if you do a few fluid changes. I will pretty much guarantee you will need a clutch job on a truck that see 50/50 city highway use and 150k miles.

If you can do the clutch yourself, you will be ahead at 150k miles. 1200 versus 2100 difference now.

If you cant do your own clutch job, you will pay 2000 to have it done.

So pretty much you can pay now for an auto or pay later for a clutch.

If you like a manual like I do, I deal with the clutch jobs. So pretty much get what you can afford and enjoy. They both cost the same in the long run. The clutch's are only 1 day jobs for me in my driveway. They are pretty easy if you rent a quality trans jack. Just dont let it fall cause the manual trans prolly weighs every bit as much as an auto.

Again get what fits you, they will both tow very close to the same weight.

Carey


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Good info Carey !

Go easy and get the auto !!


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

Thanks, Carey,
Maybe they changed the gears or something for 2009 because I just found the towing stuff on the dodge website and it looks like the auto with the 3.73s and short bed will tow 12950lbs while the manual with the long bed and 3.42s will only tow 11700lbs. It says the manual with 3.73s will tow 12700 though. My 270BH weighs less than 8000lbs fully loaded, so the manual would work for me, but if I ever wanted to get a 5th wheel a few years down the road, I'll probably either need to upgrade the rear end or get a new truck. But in the meantime, I would get better mileage with a manual. Do you know how much better the gas mileage is with a manual versus an automatic?

Here's the site with the towing capacities for the manual with 3.42s:

http://www.dodge.com/hostc/towing/capaciti...rCode=CUD200914

Here's the automatic with 3.73s:

http://www.dodge.com/hostc/towing/capaciti...rCode=CUD200914


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## Airboss (Jul 14, 2007)

If you opt for the slush box you'll also get a jake-brake. I gotta tell you that this is one of the best features of having the 6-speed; well, besides doing the clutch at 150k.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

lol we have several guys towing 13-15k trailers with 3.42 gears.

I dont think your gonna get much difference mpg. In fact if you dont shift the gears properly, your gonna get worse.

If I get some time, I will look up the final drive ratio on an auto and then on a manual. If I remember right the manual has a .73 high gear.

I think the auto has a 5 to 1 ratio 1st gear and the maunual has a 6 to 1 1st gear.

Maybe dodge is giving the manual a lighter rating because the auto has torque mutiplication and a manual dont.

Last I seen they were gonna give em both the same tow rating. They must have found something they didnt like and lowered the tow rating for the manual. The torque mutiplication that an auto gives sure helps to get a heavy rig rolling.

Do you really want a manual?

Carey


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Do you really want a manual?
> 
> Carey


I've driven manuals my whole life, but never while towing. I like the control you get with them and the way you can 'feel' what's going on through the shifter. However, I'm leaning towards the automatic short bed now mainly for turning radius and because it will be easier to drive if I get stuck in traffic. If they get about the same gas mileage, then I'll go for the larger towing capacity of the auto. I test drove one with the auto and the + and - buttons on the shifter like in the Allison are really nice and make it almost just as easy to control the transmission as in a manual, and the Jake brake is awesome.

JD


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Yeah, with all this great auto technology my next truck will be auto too. Even most new semis are going auto shift anymore.

With computer technology the auto trans can out do us for fuel mileage.

Since dodge finally made a 6 speed auto, there is no manual trans that comes close.

Have fun, and make em work for your sale!

And............. WE WANT PICS!

Carey


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

Great news! I bought my first oil burner today! I went ahead and got the short bed automatic, but not the same one I was looking at before. I found an even better one this morning and ended up getting an even better deal. It's a nice truck. It's an SLT with the towing package, towing mirrors, upgraded alternator, anti-spin rear axle, upgraded on/off road BF Goodrich tires, bed liner, chrome hood guard, infinity speakers, satellite radio for a year, and a bunch of other stuff. I even got the dark red 'inferno' color I like. I definitely made them work for the sale. I had about 5 dealerships competing, so I went in this morning with a set price I wanted and I didn't budge from it. Their 2010s have already shipped, so they were ready to deal on the 09s. I feel like I did pretty well given what the other dealers were offering ($12000 off MSRP and top dollar for my trade). Unfortunately, they have a $6500 snow plow on it right now that they were trying to sell with it, so they have to send the truck out to have the plow taken off because I don't want or need it. With the long weekend that means that I won't actually get the truck until next week sometime. I can't wait! Here she is in all her glory:


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

beautiful truck!!!

Congrats!


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## Tyvekcat (Aug 28, 2007)

Excellent choice ! Congratulations,








CTD ! Rattle Rattle Rattle......


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## thelmasgang (Apr 27, 2009)

Tyvekcat said:


> Excellent choice ! Congratulations,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


.......X2


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Welcome to oil burning my friend.. That is one sweet truck!

Summit racing.com has real good prices for any dress up items you may want, like side steps, rail covers, chrome handles, etc. etc. The ways io dress up your truck is just endless. Its also very addicting...

Carey


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Welcome to oil burning my friend.. That is one sweet truck!
> 
> Summit racing.com has real good prices for any dress up items you may want, like side steps, rail covers, chrome handles, etc. etc. The ways io dress up your truck is just endless. Its also very addicting...
> 
> Carey


...and expensive! Thanks. I'll check them out. I want to get some good floor mats right away.

JD


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

Congratulations,

You'll really enjoy your new truck. Make sure you give us an update on how it tows compared to your old truck.

Here are some useful sites I've used since I got my truck.

Forums:
www.turbodieselregister.com Great site, almost as good as this one, with a quarterly magazine and probably the most comprehensive source of information on Dodge diesels.

www.cumminsforum.com Good site with a lot of performance and 6.7 emissions deletion related information.
www.dieseltruckresource.com Another good site, I just don't seem to go there too much anymore.

Parts & Accessories:
www.genosgarage.com Lots of products for Dodge trucks and good service.
www.dodgeparts.com Factory accessories at reasonable prices. I used their price to get a better deal at my local dealer.

Recommended Accessories (from my personal experience)
Molded Dodge splash guards. These fit perfectly are functional and look nice.

Rear Wheel Well Liners. These are also a perfect fit and keep the rear tire from filling up the area between the bed and fender with mud and dirt. They should probably be a factory item but I guess they're saving a few dollars.

Tailgate Lock. I got the Bullydog one that replaces the factory handle and it works well. I also got a special part to keep the tailgate from being lifted out. You could probably also use a hose clamp. I've also seen nice electric tailgate locks that work with the keyless entry system.

Cold Weather Kit. I don't have this yet but will probably get it if I take the truck to visit the inlaws in Montana this winter. It includes heater blankets for both batteries and a connector for the block heater which is already installed on these engines.

Locking Fuel Cap. With the price of diesel last year this was a must have item for me.


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

Congrats on the new RAM. You will love the towing power of the tried and true Cummins diesel. We have been very happy with ours. MJRey provided a great list of accessory providers. We added the rear wheel liners, chrome body side molding, wheel well trim, stainless tubular side steps, front frame mount receiver hitch, locking fuel cap, rear bilstein shocks, Firestone Ride-Rite air bags, mag hy-tec double deep tranny pan, mag hy-tec front and rear diff cover, a-pillar mount tranny temp guage, FS-2500 oil bypass filteration, slush mats, Bak-Flip tonneau cover, and tinted windows. Point being is have fun with it! Happy and safe travels. Phillip and John


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

Congratulations!! unfortunately you probably won't notice a difference when towing, compared to your old gasser.


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Congrats on that new truck! Great color and sound like you got a great deal too









-CC


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

Joonbee said:


> unfortunately you probably won't notice a difference when towing, compared to your old gasser.


Joonbee. Good one! I have a feeling the 6.7L Cummins diesel with a 6-speed transmission might tow just a little teensy bit better than the 5.3L gasser with a 4-speed, but we'll see... My towing capacity is going from 7800lbs to 12950 lbs. I know it definitely won't ride as nice unloaded, but I didn't buy it for that. My Chevy 1500 rides like a cadillac - I'm sure I'm gonna miss that.


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

MJRey said:


> Congratulations,
> 
> You'll really enjoy your new truck. Make sure you give us an update on how it tows compared to your old truck.
> 
> Here are some useful sites I've used since I got my truck.


Thanks! I'm going to check all this stuff out. I'll add accessories as I can afford them. It might be a little while though! - Between the camper and now the truck, I've been doing my part to kick-start the economy









JD


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

fshr4life said:


> unfortunately you probably won't notice a difference when towing, compared to your old gasser.


Ha! I have a feeling the 6.7L Cummins diesel with a 6-speed transmission might tow just a little teensy bit better than the 5.3L gasser with a 4-speed, but we'll see... My towing capacity is going from 7800lbs to 12950 lbs. I know it definitely won't ride as nice unloaded, but I didn't buy it for that. My Chevy 1500 rides like a cadillac - I'm sure I'm gonna miss that.
[/quote]
LOL. Yeah, I thought the same thing. You MIGHT notice a slight difference??? I'm sure you wll not believe the difference! Plus, the mpg will be beter, too. You will love it. Happy trails. Phillip and John


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

CONGRATS !!! Good call on the auto tranny !!! Last thing i want to think about when towing is shifting.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

fshr4life said:


> ..... I know it definitely won't ride as nice unloaded, but I didn't buy it for that. My Chevy 1500 rides like a cadillac - I'm sure I'm gonna miss that.


Yeah, the new truck will ride like it's driving over a cadillac!









It's a good excuse to hook up and tow (so the ride will smooth out).


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## webeopelas (Mar 11, 2006)

Nice Truck. One word of advice, if the bedliner is a Dodge plastic drop in...get rid of it asap. I had one and within one year, when I pulled it out to have my Line-X sprayed in, the paint was all scuffed and there was surface rust all over. They just vibrate and hold moisture underneath them.

If you really want to protect the bed, get a spray in.


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

webeopelas said:


> Nice Truck. One word of advice, if the bedliner is a Dodge plastic drop in...get rid of it asap. I had one and within one year, when I pulled it out to have my Line-X sprayed in, the paint was all scuffed and there was surface rust all over. They just vibrate and hold moisture underneath them.
> 
> If you really want to protect the bed, get a spray in.


That's my plan. It does have a plastic drop-in bed liner right now and I hate those things. I had one in a truck back in the early 90' and it warped and looked horrible. I've got Rhino Liner in my Chevy and I love it. I want to get one of the aluminum collapsible tonneau covers as well. I've just got to budget my $$ for a few months on buying accessories, so I think I'm gonna start with really good floor mats and then work my way to the bed. I also need to get some running boards to make it easier to get in and out for shorter folks.

I called the dealership last night and they said they sent the truck to the plow shop yesterday to have the snow plow removed. They said I should be able to pick it up this evening or tomorrow sometime. I feel like a little kid on Christmas Eve right now!


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

Now that you can pull half of Montana, I'll bet the next accessory will be a fiver...bets, anyone???


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> Now that you can pull half of Montana, I'll bet the next accessory will be a fiver...bets, anyone???


NOPE! My Outback is a brand new 2010, so I'm gonna keep her for a while. I'm done buying big stuff for a few years! I'm still waiting on the call from the dealership. It seems like this day is going in slow motion!


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## 'Ohana (May 20, 2007)

fshr4life said:


> I called the dealership last night and they said they sent the truck to the plow shop yesterday to have the snow plow removed. They said I should be able to pick it up this evening or tomorrow sometime. I feel like a little kid on Christmas Eve right now!


Congrats on the Truck and welcome to the oil burner club









Do you know If the truck came with the factory plow options ? If so it may have some beefier suspension components

Ed


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

I got my truck yesterday! I'm a happy camper! (pun intended). The only issue I ran into was the fact that the credit union where I had a preapproved loan waited until I was at the dealership finalizing everything to tell me that they consider a 3/4 ton truck to be a 'commercial vehicle' and they wouldn't shell out the money for it since they don't do commercial vehicle loans. What a crock! Anyway, after a few choice words with the credit union, I called my other bank and was able to negotiate a decent rate (although still .8% higher than the credit union) so I could close the deal. Aside from the time spent on that, the transaction went very smooth and I was driving my new truck home in no time. I love the diesel rattle!

I live at the top of a very steep (probably about 9+% grade), long hill with a 25mph speed limit, so when I left for work this morning, I hit the jake brake button and pushed the "-" sign a couple times to drop it into 4th gear. The jake brake kicked in and I didn't even need to touch my service brakes all the way down the hill. AWESOME! I can't wait to hook this baby up to my camper and go for a spin!



'Ohana said:


> Do you know If the truck came with the factory plow options ? If so it may have some beefier suspension components


Ed,
It does have the snow plow prep package installed that comes with a bigger alternator and an extra skid plate underneath, but not the 'snow chief' package that comes with the upgraded front suspension. That would be nice since it's an $800 option, but I don't think I really need it.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Cant wait to see what you think after towing. Dont get a speeding ticket, ok









Carey


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Cant wait to see what you think after towing. Dont get a speeding ticket, ok
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I drove my new truck down to Maryland this past weekend. It's about an 8 hour round trip. I love the way this diesel just wants to climb hills. The torque is amazing. I averaged 20.2 miles per gallon on the highway. There was some stop-and-go traffic or I would probably would have had over 21 miles per gallon. I'm pretty happy with those numbers, especially for a truck with only 1000 miles on it now. I've heard that the mileage gets better as a diesel breaks in. I was driving about 70 the whole way and being pretty conservative to see what kind of mileage I could get. You're right though Carey, it's hard to keep my foot off the accelerator when I'm coming out of a toll booth or something. This truck will take off like a rocket ship! Unfortunately that comes at a price of much worse mpg!

While I was in Maryland, I think it went into a regen cycle, because my mileage dropped to around 15 for about 20-30 minutes and I could smell hot metal from underneath the truck when I came to a stop sign and I had my window down. I was driving on some country roads when that happened, so I didn't count that in my 'highway' mileage above. Overall though, I can't beat having this much more towing power with better gas mileage at the same time over my old gasser.

My camper is in having the black tank replaced (I had an earlier post about that), but they tell me it should be done this week. I'll probably go pick it up this coming weekend, so I'll have a chance to tow. Overall, I'm really happy with my new truck. I'll post back after I get a chance to tow with it.

JD


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## Tyvekcat (Aug 28, 2007)

What is this "regen cycle" ?


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Tyvekcat said:


> What is this "regen cycle" ?


Regen is when the new diesel's clean their DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter). Basically there's a filter that catches the soot in the tailpipe and when it get's full they dump raw fuel down the tailpipe to burn it out at very high temperatures. That fuel economy dip sounds about right.

Now, JD, once you get a chance, hand calculate some mileage and see if Dodge has improved their fuel economy algorithm. My Dad's '06 overpredicts by ~2mpg







When towing... (not sure about solo).


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

Nathan said:


> Now, JD, once you get a chance, hand calculate some mileage and see if Dodge has improved their fuel economy algorithm.


I'm going to make the same trip back down to Maryland this coming weekend and I had already planned to hand calculate the mileage to see how it matches the computer. I'll let you guys know.


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

Nathan said:


> Now, JD, once you get a chance, hand calculate some mileage and see if Dodge has improved their fuel economy algorithm.


OK. I made the trip to Maryland again with the new truck and I manually calculated the fuel efficiency both on the highway on the way down and with mixed driving and towing my Outback on the way back. The trip is about 250 miles each way, so I was able to do the tests over a pretty decent amount of time. As Nathan said, the Dodge algorithm isn't perfect. I was about 1 mpg lower with the manual calculations for highway driving and about .7 lower with highway and towing combined. This time my 'highway' driving was only about 80% highway and 20% in stop-and-go rush hour traffic and the truck also clearly went through another regen. The mpg dropped to about 14.5 on the highway during the regen, but the overall highway trip average was 18.6 according to the computer. When I did the manual calcs after filling the tank back up, I got 17.6 mpg, so 1 mpg lower for highway.

I picked up my trailer about 80 miles into the trip back and WOW. This truck is way better towing than my old gasser. I was able to sustain highway speeds and merge/pass, etc without any issues. I have a huge reserve of power. It took hills like they weren't there. The tow/haul mode with the 6-speed auto and the jake brake are incredible for stopping. I didn't really even need to touch my service brakes until the very end of most stops. When you let off the gas and have the tow/haul and jake brake turned on, it automatically starts downshifting and applying the jake brake and brings the whole rig to an easily manageable speed for toll boths, exits, etc without you even needing to touch the actual service brakes until the very end - in fact, I had to touch the accelerator a couple of times to keep it from slowing down too fast. It's also too aggressive for decending hills like that as well, so I found that either turning off the tow/haul and leaving the jake brake on or turning off the jake brake and downshifting is the best way to decend hills.

I was just enjoying my new-found towing power and accelerating up hills and driving about 65-70 most of the way, so I wasn't going for great fuel efficiency while towing. The computer said that I averaged 12.9 mpg for the trip back, but my manual calcs at the end of the trip said 12.2. Part of the drive was highway without any towing to get to where I needed to pick up my camper, so my actual towing average was less - I would say closer to 10-11 mpg. But again, I was really laying into it on some of the mountains in upstate NY when I really didn't need to. I also have no idea if the truck went into a regen or not during towing, so I'll need to gather more data.

Two data points doesn't really make for a good statistical analysis, so I'll continue doing it and try to pin down how far out of whack the computer really is. I could have refilled the tank a little more or less each time, etc, so I'll keep checking to get a better average.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Cool! That should be about the right mpg till it breaks in. You should pick up some after 12-15k and by about 30-40k, it should be broke in. Although mine picked up a few tenths at about 100k and ive picked up some more after 200k for some strange reason. I now have 229k on mine. I have been getting 12mpg with 12-13000lb 5ers at 63 mph. and Ive been pushing mid 19 mpgs at 67 empty. Thats incredible being that my truck weighs 10000lbs empty and 22-23000lbs loaded. 
Your dodge is hardly working with your trailer. lol I bet you might be grossing like 16,000lbs. It would take one steep hill to make a cummins strain with just 16000lbs. And thats a good thing!

Have fun







with your new toy, and dont worry, you can play hard with this one, and your not going to break it!









Carey


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Sounds great! Enjoy that experience! I always have to laugh when we have gone in the big trucks from not being able to slow them down to them acutally slowing down too much.


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

Congrats. Enjoy trying to figure out what to do with all that power.

Jim


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

Joonbee said:


> Congrats. Enjoy trying to figure out what to do with all that power.
> 
> Jim


I'm sure I'll find something to do with it! In the meantime, it sure is fun not having to worry about blowing something up or frying my transmission climbing a mountain!

JD


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

fshr4life said:


> Congrats. Enjoy trying to figure out what to do with all that power.
> 
> Jim


I'm sure I'll find something to do with it! In the meantime, it sure is fun not having to worry about blowing something up or frying my transmission climbing a mountain!

JD
[/quote]

Yes it is!!


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