# Planning Our Trip Out West



## mike (Dec 17, 2006)

We started booking our trip out west, Dates and campgrounds will be posted on another thread. But it looks like we will be in alot of national forests and doing alot of dry camping. We have dry camped for a weekend but for a week it seems like we will need some new items. I am looking for advice. We will use the tt for fresh water, and lights at night. It looks like some of the places we will be staying at will be cool at night so we may also need the heater. We have a two y.o. 12v battery. Should I change it out with 2 6v or add a 12 volt. What does everyone reccomend regarding how to charge the batteries. We will be staying at some national parks for a week at a time. I was thinking a 1000 lp generator or a solar panel. If i go with either what are everyones recommendations. Thanks for everyones help.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Buying a second battery is probably not the best solution, since it's best for them to be exactly matched. So, you need to buy two batteries either way. You can't go wrong with two 6v. I think for most people twin 12v is plenty, but if your concern is getting the absolute maximum useful juice, even if it means paying more, then definitely go the 6v route.

My understanding is there are some real generator nazis in the national park campgrounds. There are some other threads here about solar. The main question is how much juice you're going to be using. If you like to watch movies off the batteries, you're going to need a substantial investment in solar to keep you charged up.


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## mike (Dec 17, 2006)

It looks like we will only need the juice for lights at night, running the water pump and the heater if needed.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

If you are talking about dry camping for a week at a time, I think I would seriously look at converting to 6V, or at least much higher capacity 12V batteries than what was supplied new. A solar panel would help too, but if you don't know the sites you will be in - and the surrounding terrain/foliage - I would not want to rely on the panels.

Another must have is going to be a good size gray water tote. This will save you a lot of hassle when the grey tank fills up if the alternative is to break camp and move the trailer to a dump station. I have a 30 gallon tote with a handle that drops over the hitch ball so it's easily towed (that 30 gallons of water gets really heavy, really fast!)

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## mike (Dec 17, 2006)

Thanks doug, The site we booked at sequoia is right near the restroom, bad for privacy but good for the kids and should help with not filling up the tanks. I will look into that tote that might be a good idea. I'm not sure how to store it as we do not have a pick up, maybe a roof mount of some sort?


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Mike I agree with the others about the dual 6volte batteries. But depending on how long you are staying put you already have a great charging system. If your moving around some then make sure your truck will feed the trailer power, this usually requires fuse that isn't included when the vehicle is sold. If you have this then you should be charging your Outback while pulling it. This might eliminate the need for a generator. Solar is a nice option, if you will have clear skies and not to much shade, but to get the charging power you'll need to spend some money on the setup first.

As for the blue tote, strap it on the rear bumper. I want to say I had mine mounted partially behind the spare tire resting on the bumper. Oregon_Camper will know... as he has my previous Outback and blue tote!









As for generator look for a Honda EU 1000 or similar Yamaha, I searched using the craigshelper.com and found a few for around $400 on the used market.

Good luck and enjoy your travels!


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## mike (Dec 17, 2006)

As for generators, Due to the burb and having lp already there are some generators that will run with tri-fuel. Does anyone have any experience. I was thinking with the lp I would not have to worry about bringing and storing gas. Thanks for the replies.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Mike,

*Grey water:* Get a 10 gallon tote like in the picture below. Only use it for greg water...then storing it in the outback (we store under the dinette) won't be a problem.










*Power:* The Suburban has the fuse installed, so you will be charging the Outback's battery when traveling. With our 2x6v batteries, we can go about 6 days without a charge. Get Trojan batteries and you'll be fine. If you have to plug in the Outback to the truck one night to get a charge...do that. Worse case...someone in the campground will have to give you a jump start.

*Solar*: We have one and it works great (when I remember to install it) I'd say it gives me an extra 1-2 days of power. YMMV depending on how much sunlight you get on the Outback.

*Generator: *I have a small Coleman 1850 generator that I take with us on our trips with the port-a-boat. It is used to charge the battery for the electric motor on the boat. It won't run the AC, but will run everything else in the trailer. I'd go this route if you really think you need power. Cost is low vs a new Honda.


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## mike (Dec 17, 2006)

Thanks for the reply, a few follow up questions, 1. u have are basic schedule and do u think we will need heat? if so will the trojons be enough to power the furnace for six days. 2. We use the tt to get away from all the electronics so we like to cook using fire not microwave, etc so other than lights water pump and furnace we really have no other power needs. Do u think we would need a gen for the trip we have planned. p.s. I knew u would know if the burb had the fuse installed thanks for all ur help. Looking forward to seeing u this year.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

mike said:


> Thanks for the reply, a few follow up questions, 1. u have are basic schedule and do u think we will need heat? if so will the trojons be enough to power the furnace for six days. 2. We use the tt to get away from all the electronics so we like to cook using fire not microwave, etc so other than lights water pump and furnace we really have no other power needs. Do u think we would need a gen for the trip we have planned. p.s. I knew u would know if the burb had the fuse installed thanks for all ur help. Looking forward to seeing u this year.


The heater needs is a crap shoot. If the weather turns on you, it is nice to have it. I'd say we used ours about 10% of our trips this summer (fall/winter camping is a different story!!). Nice sleeping bags and you're good to go. I might be different, but I prefer to sleep in a colder environment and then snuggle into a warm sleeping bag.









You can save power by remove 1 of the bulbs from the lights that have 2...or moving to lower watt bulbs (look in the garden section of Home Depot)

Getting the kids a battery operated light will allow them to read at night and avoid turning on the overhead light...saving power.

I think if you invest in the 2x6v Trojan batteries, you'll be fine. You could then bring your existing battery as a backup.

Will some of the locations you're camping at have power? If so, then take your battery charger and that that opt to charge up the extra battery.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

With 2 6V's on our 28RSDS we did some 3-4 day stops dry and ran the furnace sparingly at night. We didn't keep it cranked up, but DW likes to get out of bed to a warm camper so it was used every morning to warm things up and then sat low at night so it didn't get too cold since DD still kicks her covers off at night (At age 1.5 last summer I didn't expect her to fix them herself). We had 45W of solar on the roof, but I don't think we got much charge in most of the campgrounds due to tree coverage.

Also, I should mention by making it 3-4 nights, the battery gauge only once dropped below 1/2.


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## AZthunderations (Aug 21, 2008)

We dry camp a lot in Arizona and have found some ways to use energy twice at times. 
We try to orient the camper so that the most windows face East. In the mornings we open the blinds on that side and let the sun shine in and it warms the trailer. We also make a pot of coffee in the morning and the cooktop also warms the TT. Use the furnace just to take the chill off at night and use good sleeping bags or thermo blankets. 
We have just one group 29 deep cycle 12 volt battery and it does well for lights and to ignite the furnace and fridge. The 2 6 volt would be even better. If your traveling every 3 to 5 days, the battery will get charged from the TV. 
We use 7 gallon water containers and keep them outside for use instead of using the TT freah water tank and pump. You can even keep a container of water in the bathroom to flush the toliet so as not to use the water pump. You can refill the containers from your fresh water holding tank by using the drain. We have a solar shower that we use instead of the water heater and pump. Let it lay in the sun to heat up and take it into the shower 
Get a grey water drain cap for your sewer and a 50 foot hose. Lots of places have no problem draining the grey tank into the woods........check with the rangers or hosts to make sure. Do it at night so as to not upset any campers that feel it's wrong and run the hose as far away from the campsites as possible. With this drain cap you can easily fill smaller containers with grey water to carry to the bathroom and dump also. 
Have battery lamps as a back up. Use camp toilets as much as possible. 
We have a 1000 watt generator that we keep as a last resort.....hate the noise. You can get a small solar charger at Harbor Freight that will help a little. The best advice is to use energy sparingly. 2 full LP tanks will last a long time. Snuggle at night. Enjoy.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Some of the weather sites (I think weather.com does it) will allow you to go forward and see average highs and lows for a specific area and time of year. That's a good starting point. But as has been noted, if there's a cold snap that changes everything.

One thing that hasn't been noted - you haven't mentioned you're considering it, but I think you should never consider running the TV as a way to charge the batteries.

Sounds like you like to research and analyze. Their is lots of information about batteries out there. You can determine if the say 40% increase in price for say 25% increase in amp-hours going with 6v over twin 12v is worthwhile for you.

The furnace is clearly going to be the big variable, if the weather is going to be possibly cold. As an example, I can tell you when it's 20 degrees out the furnace keeps it plenty warm inside but runs a LOT.

Here's my bottom line advice - if the temperature is possibly going to require a lot of furnace, even the 6v won't be sufficient, so in that case I'd say go with twin 12v and use the difference in $ towards a generator.


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

I would definitely go with the dual 6-volt setup. A small generator would be nice to have but if you're going to use it in the Natl Park/Forest you should make sure it's one of the quieter models. You could also get a solar charging setup. I was at Costco today and they had a nice 60 watt portable system for about $270.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

What works for me is a Quite inverter generator, I can run it for a couple hours every day and then not ever worry about power. We are power hogs so while the generator is running we use our toys like computers, radios etc. My Generator is 2800 watts, weighs 65lbs and will run the AC while charging the batteries plus it is nice to be able to use the microwave. A 1000 watt genset will charge the batteries but not run the AC or microwave. When I run my generator I can hardly even hear it at the next campsite, this is a big plus, I have had neighbors who didn't even know I was running a generator.

Trying to charge your RV batteries via the TV to trailer plug just doesn't work, you will be lucky if you get a trickle charge even using 10 or 8 ga wire so don't plan on getting much of a charge from the TV. The two 6volt battery setup is by far the best, something I will go to when ever my two 12volt batteries go bad. One of the tricks I do to get my batteries up fast is to let one charge via the trailer convector and the other one by a 25amp portable charger but this only works with two 12volt batteries.


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

If it's cold out and the furnace is running all night, neither 12v or 6v batteries will last very long.

I decided to try the dual 6 volt Trojans T-105's (which set me back about $300) to see how they compare to the dual 12 volt setup I've always used. Only made one trip with them so far last month for some stargazing out in the desert. The temps were in the teens and 20's at night and 40's during the day. I used our old, little trailer, so the results in our Outback might have been somewhat different. At night, I set the thermostat in the trailer to around 58 degrees, bundled up and used a heavy sleeping bag. When it got too cold outside, I came in and watched a couple of DVD's. Otherwise, I tried to conserve as much power as possible. The furnace came on about 2-3 times per hour.

At sunset, the battery voltage was around 12.6v, or fully charged. By the time I went to bed, the voltage was down to 12.2, and when I woke up, my solar panels were already charging the batteries. I have two 135 watt Kyocera panels (yep, BIG panels!) and they spent most of the day sending up to 17 amps of current to the batteries. By mid afternoon, the batteries were fully charged. I didn't have to use my Honda 1000 watt generator, and I spent three nights out there.

I'd say that the dual 6 volt setup performed similar to my dual 12 volt batteries, but it seems as if they held out a bit longer when at the critical level of 12-12.2 volts. I'll have to do some more experimenting, but I think in very cold weather, you'd be hard pressed to make it for more than a few nights without some sort of charging system.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Insomniak, that was my point earlier. If you're going to try to go 5 days in 20 degree weather you need to be thinking generator or big solar setup. Period.

I've contended right from the start of these uh... discussions... that the T-105 setup certainly can't be criticized, but there's probably only 10% of the population here for whom it would matter over dual 12v Walmart batteries. 2 or 3 days of 50+ weather and not watching TV/DVD off the batteries (which I suspect is what most of us would be looking to handle) and any dual 12v will be more than adequeate


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## mike (Dec 17, 2006)

We will be in Glacier in late july, we are just a little concerned that we will hit some cold weather, but really how cold can glacier be in July?


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

For the most flexibility and convenience, a small generator and an inverter can keep you going indefinitely on long dry camping trips. My Honda EU1000 only weighs about 30 pounds, runs for 6-8 hours on a tank of gas, and produces more than enough power to charge the batteries. It's barely audible 50 feet away. I think it cost me close to $600, but it's been well worth the expense.

A small inverter that plugs into the cigarette lighter may be enough to power a TV/DVD player, laptop, etc. Anything larger than a couple hundred watts will have to be wired directly to your batteries. Another thought is a separate battery/inverter that you just plunk down outside the trailer (or underneath), then plug the trailer into that. Make sure you turn off the breakers inside for everything except outlets and you're good to go.

The weather in Glacier in July should be mild, but you never know when it will get cold, or rainy. It's nice to get away from the electronics, but mother nature doesn't always play nice. Our kids usually watch a DVD before they go to bed, and it's nice to have something to settle them down after a long day of fighting with each other...


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## ALASKA PFLOCK (Jun 24, 2007)

Mike- I think that AZthunernations is on the mark with his experience in the desert.


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## aplvlykat (Jan 25, 2004)

We have dry camped for years and have very few problems. Heres some hints.

1. Get the 6 volt batteries you will not regret it
2. Get a small generator. how small depends on what you want to run. if only charging the batteries 1000-1500 watts, if you want to run the A/c and microwave then buy a 2500-3500 watt setup. Remember most National and State parks have hours of operation times for generators. They are 3-4 hours in the morning and again 3-4 hours at night. The park will tell you the exact hours when you arrive. Use all hours, even if you think you don't need them to keep your batteries up. Make sure that the generator is approved for National parks and that it meets the sound level requiements and that it also has a spark arrester installed, most name brands do but you may want to verify.
3. Fresh water, buy 100 foot of fresh water hose, buy 1 or 2 collapsible, 2 or 5 gallon tanks you can get all these at Walmart. This will cover your water refill needs. Most National parks have hose connections close by if they are to far away use the water jugs and refill as needed. 
4. Gray water, all National parks have outside restrooms somewhere at the site there will be a outside sink and water dump for gray water only. We use a 5 gallon bucket and carry it over or you can buy a portable tank. Its up to you and your budget. The 5 gallon bucket also servers as fire contoll for around the campfire ring. Again some parks require you to have water close by when you have a fire. 
5. Black water, try to use your inside tiolet as little as possible, use the campground restrooms. If you use your tiolet as little as possible you should last the week. Again most parks have dump stations so dump on the way out. Also remember to add extra water and if possible a bag of ice right into the black water tank. The movement of the truck, water and ice will clean and break up the junk and make it easier to dump.
6. Buy a small inverter, look at the back of your TV and it will say how many watts it uses. Get one half again as big as what is needed. All inverters are not equal they sell them in the automotive section and in the electronics sections of most stores like walmart. Buy the one it the electronics section it should deliver cleaner power. Use this inverter for night time quiet hours. 
7. Set up a schedule. Run generator morning and evening, check and empty gray tank every morning or as needed, check and refill fresh water every morning or as needed.
8. as far as the heater if you follow a charging schedule you should not have any problem using it during the night.

This should cover the basics just remember try to conserve water and your other resourses. Kirk


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## mike (Dec 17, 2006)

ok, thanks for the great advice, I do have two questions, one i will post on a seperate thread, but why do I need an inverter?


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

mike said:


> ok, thanks for the great advice, I do have two questions, one i will post on a seperate thread, but why do I need an inverter?


You can use the inverter to use the 12v system to create 120v and use some electrical stuff (small stuff...laptop, iPod, etc..)


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

You may not need an inverter, but they're handy for charging small electronics and laptop computers (at the expense of your trailer batteries), and running a TV / DVD player. Some folks like to get away completely from the electronics, but with a three year-old, I would imagine you own a few DVD's. Otherwise, during quiet hours, you'll be limited to your 12 volt system only. Our LCD TV/DVD combo only uses about 75 watts and pulls 6-7 amps from the batteries.


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## mike (Dec 17, 2006)

While I can appreciate peoples need for tv, we do get some of that at home at the reason for camping is no tv. My 3 y.o. is into games and starting to read or have us read to her. We really try not to use much in the way of electronics for camping. This is however going to be a two month trip so we may go that route.


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