# 2005 Frontier



## hugsmindy (Apr 17, 2007)

We are new to the RV/Travel Trailer life. We are avid campers...mostly tent and cabin camping....and have just decided to purchase our first Travel Trailer. We debated between the TravelStar 23SBS with a GVW of 3732 and a base/dry hitch weight of 545 and of course, the Outback 21rs with a "shipping weight" of 4585 and a base/dry hitch weight of 375. I kept coming back to the Outback because of the full enclosure (verses the tent slide outs) and because it appeared to be a higher quality.

Our 2005 Frontier is a standard 4X2 Crew Cab with the only added option being side step bars and a towing capacity of 6500. We will be putting firewood, 2 25lb dogs and passenger weight (not including driver) of 350. In the trailer we will have about 20 gallons of fresh water...for the emergency pitstops, 4 bikes, kitchen supplies, a few games, 4 folding chairs, clothing, toiletries, cleaning supplies, and food. I've read elsewhere that a car as small as a Jeep Liberty can tow this trailer without a problem, but I was hoping to get some feedback from owners as to what they tow and what their tow rating is on their vehicle.

Any comments, suggestions, concerns would be greatly appreciated since we plan to finalize the purchase Wednesday or Thursday of this week.

Thanks,
Hugsfamily.


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Welcome to outbackers!!

I don't know where you read a liberty can tow a 21rs but that is severely misleading and is an accident waiting to happen. A small SUV like that will be easily overpowered by a 21RS in a panic or sway situation. We tow a 21RS with a GMC yukon and we wouldn't tow a 21rs with anything smaller than a full size SUV or pickup.

I'm afraid your frontier will be overloaded by the time you add the tongue weight and all your gear. The listed tongue and dry weights are pretty conservative in the brochure, our actual loaded trailer weight is 5400 with a tongue weight of 750. That is 1000 under your tow rating but the number you will exceed on your frontier will be the GVWR or gross vehicle rating and possibly your rear axle rating. You can find both those ratings on the door post of your truck. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I think you should consider a smaller trailer or a larger tow vehicle if you want to get the 21RS.

Mike


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

*Welcome to Outbackers, hugsfamily!*








Glad you found us!









As far as your Frontier goes, I'm afraid you are going to be asking too much of it. The 21RS is not a big trailer, but the weights do add up. To start with, I would advise against basing your numbers on the dry, or "shipping weight" as they are notoriously low. The weight of the trailer equipped and ready to roll will be significantly higher. Add the weight of the awning, batteries and propane (none of which the trailer ships with) right off the bat. And don't forget the hitch setup (an easy 100# there). The rest of the things going in the trailer don't seem like much, but they do add up quickly.

IMHO, I believe the safer number to go by is the trailers GVWR (The maximum allowable weight). This will give you a number you know is safe, and if you come in below that, all the better for you. The GVWR for the 21RS is 6,520#. You are at the limit right there. Now, add the weight of everything going into the truck itself. Passengers, options, dog, firewood... all of that weight comes off the towing capacity of the truck. In other words, the tow capacity is based on a base model (no options) truck, with a driver and a full tank of gas only. Everything you add to that, comes off the tow capacity. And frankly, for the sake - and longevity - of your truck, you really wouldn't want to exceed about 85% of the tow rating anyway.

When considering your towing capacity, keep in mind also that there is 6,500#, and then there is 6,500# A 6,500# utility trailer with a load of bricks is not the same as a big travel trailer. The frontal area a travel trailer presents to the wind is like a big sail on a boat. Lot's to push around and lots of drag.

But that's just weight. There are other considerations as well. The wheelbase of the truck has a huge impact on tow-ability and safety. Unfortunately, the Frontier is not a long W.B. vehicle and will have a really tough time keeping everything under control. As for the notion of pulling any Outback with a Jeep Liberty, that is pure unadulterated B.S. If a dealer told you that... I would find another dealer. Now!

You also need to consider the brakes on the truck. Again, in the case of the Frontier, not really designed for that kind of abuse.

I hate to be such a downer about all of this, and there is nothing I would love more than to see another Outbacker out there. But it's even more important that you are a happy and safe Outbacker!

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

Mike and Doug have pretty much hit the nail on the head. I would really reconsider what you are doing, it could be very dangerous.

I realize that you may be let down. We were in that situation as well. We were going to tow with our 2004 Explorer. The dealer in MD would not sell the 21RS to us. We then bought a 2005 2500HD, then we upgraded to a 2006 28RSDS, now we just upgraded to a 2006 2500HD Duramax, LLY.

Good luck in your decisions.

Tim


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Unless Jeep has done some massive changes to the Liberty, I have to agree with Mike. That is not a safe TV for either trailer.


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## hugsmindy (Apr 17, 2007)

OK, feeling a bit disappointed, but not totally surprised by the comments.....would I be wrong in going with either of these options (I know this is an Outback website...and Outback is my preference...but you have been very knowledgable and helpful and I'd like to keep my family safe.)

Travelstar or Antiqua models:

21 foot, 7.7 width ... 3271 GVW and 450 hitch
23 foot, 7.7 width ... 3732 GVW and 545 hitch

HELP....I don't know what to do.
Hugs!


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Hugs,

I hate to say it, but those are still pretty good size trailers. Much lighter, and that is good, but still a big sail going down the road. If it were me, and I was looking at a full size hard-sided trailer (vs. a pop-up), I would upgrade the tow vehicle first. You really want that wheelbase.









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## RizFam (Feb 25, 2006)

to Outbackers

Sorry you are disappointed. Is it at all possible to get a larger TV at this time?

Good Luck,
Tami


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

Had a 89 Hardbody 4wd and towed a 5k trailer quite a bit all around the PNW. It was slow up hills and very slow down hill due to the marginal brakes in the towing application. This truck had 370,000 when sold. The Frontier is just an evolution of the hardbody with a little bit of power/torque increase but no big changes in the balance of the drivetrain.

IMHO these trailers are way to big for your truck. I wouldn't tow like I outlined above with my family in the truck. This was in my "single" days and no family responsibilities......

Map Guy


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## justinsnow0 (Feb 5, 2007)

I just bought my 21rs a few months ago. I had a 2005 Fronty LE 4X4. Now I know the 4X2 has a little more tow capacity but it's not going to work. I towed the 21rs home from the dealer with just my wife and an empty trailer. The truck really worked hard and it was only about a 20 minute ride. If you are going to stay very close to home when you camp then I would say keep your fronty. If you have any intentions in going anywhere far, get something different.

I really loved my fronty and it was a hard choice for me but I upgraded to a 3/4 ton.

We also shopped other brands and I think that if your looking for a full sized TT than maybe a jayco that I saw. It was 18 feet and new to this year. Goodluck to you.


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Not meaning to "pile on" but in the interest of helping you make a good decision for you and yours, take a look at the gross combined weight rating (GCWR) for your truck. In our case, we found that we would exceed the GCWR of our '02 F-150 Supercrew even with a model such as a 25RSS when we added up the weights for certain camping situations. I mention this even though you are considering "sob" trailers. It was our experience that we should look at GCWR just as much as we looked at the gross tow rating of the truck.

Another thing to consider is the gross vehicle weight (GVW) of the truck. Add up all your weight you plan to pack in the truck then add the weight of the hitch and the tongue weight of the trailer. The margin of safety we looked at was to not exceed 80% of any of the weight ratings (GVW, GCWR) of our TV. We actually filled our truck with gas and children then went down and weighed our truck with all of us in it. That gave us a good idea as to how much weight we had to work with when it came down to loading our vehicle with gear, tongue weight etc. etc. It was a disappointing process for us as well. We were wanting a 27RSDS or 28RSDS but now are happy that we have made a good decision for us with the help of the folks here on Outbackers who have that "been there done that" experience. I listened carefully to them and my family is better off for it. Our 23RS is patiently waiting our arrival in Michigan








Just thinking casually....I wouldn't tow anything larger than a mid-size pop-up with a Frontier.

Good luck in your search.

-CC

EDIT...

Here are some numbers to consider for an 05 Frontier 4x2 V6 auto:
gross vehicle weight rating (lbs) 5,730
curb weight (lbs) 4,242
max payload (lbs) 1,482 
gross trailer weight braked (lbs) 6,301

You should load your truck like you are going to take it camping then go have it weighed - fuel, passengers and all. Once you have that number then you can see how much you will have left for hitch weight and tongue weight. For example:
Actual truck weight: using your numbers - 50lbs of dogs, 350lbs of passenger + driver (guessing 175) + 21galsx6lbs = 126lbs of fuel. This alone is 700lbs which puts your curb weight at 4942. You now have 788lbs left for hitch and tongue weight. Worse yet, we know your truck will weigh more than what I just added up with engine oil, fluids and anything else you might be packing in the bed such as firewood. I would go and get that truck weighed like you are about to go hook up to a trailer and see what your vehicle weight is. Only then will you know how much payload you have left over. As far as the GCWR goes, the best I could find was an article which did an "off the cuff" calculation and indicated "around 10,000lbs". We haven't yet considered wheelbase implications...









Is it possible to get a stronger TV and get the 21RS we know you really really really really want???









Good luck!

-CC


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Get the Outback AND and new truck.....

That will solve all the camping related issues.


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## hugsmindy (Apr 17, 2007)

Oregon_Camper said:


> Get the Outback AND and new truck.....
> 
> That will solve all the camping related issues.


















We're currently taking donations for a new TV, but unless we can raise enough to buy it, we may just be done for when it comes to buying an Outback right now!


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## hugsmindy (Apr 17, 2007)

We keep hearing about wheelbase issues, but we just checked them out. Our Frontier wheel base is 120 inches while the Ford F150 is 126 inches and a Durango (which someone on this forum is pulling a 25inch Outback) is only 116inches)...that doesn't seem like a huge difference. In fact we look a great deal better in wheel base than the Druango...if we stayed under 3300lbs dry weight? Any comments?

Hugsfamily


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## Lady Di (Oct 28, 2005)

I know it's disapointing, but would you rather be disapointed, or heartbroken due to an accident because you were overloaded?

Think carefully about what you are thinking about doing.

How much is your family worth?


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## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

The 21rs will be too much for the frontier. If you like the Keystone brand they make a ultra-lite Passport Model 200QS which is very similar to the 21rs in layout but weights in 570lbs lighter empty and 1100lbs gross less. It maybe a better fit for your frontier, It is listed under the website. I have not seen one but the floor plan looks rea







sonable.


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

After looking - in regards to wheelbase - it looks like you would be fine with a trailer similar in length to a 21RS. As far as the Ford comparison goes...the wheelbase on my '02 F150 SuperCrew is 138.5". The 126" number you mention is for a regular cab short box in the 07's.

You mention member(s) who have shorter vehicles such as a Durango pulling a longer trailer. Several members who have a shorter/smaller TV pulling a larger trailer also have a little goodie that makes what would otherwise be TV length vs. trailer length problem alllll better. I speak reverently of the Hensley Arrow.









-CC


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Hi hugsfamily
















to Outbackers! 

Good luck with your decision and please keep us posted!


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

Welcome hugsfamily,

I don't know if this helps but I just read an article in the April Trailer Life about a 2007 Nissan Pathfinder (V-8) towing a lightweight (6000 lb) 28ft Coachmen trailer. The Pathfinder only has 112 inch wheelbase and is probably similar in width to your truck. In the article they mentioned that they had to work a bit to get the weight distributing hitch setup correct but after that it towed just fine. Now personally I think thats too much trailer for the Pathfinder but it's an example of a setup that I would call more challenging than what your proposing. You may be able to tow the 21RS if you watch the weights carefully, get a good hitch, a good brake controller, mirrors , and take your time when towing. You may be slow but you should be safe with the proper planning.

Good luck,


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