# I Promised Reviews



## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Ok, so I got the hitch dialed in so for Memorial day, we headed 3 hours north (that takes 5 hours on a holiday weekend for those who don't live in MI)









Towed the Minilite across I94, then up 127 to Higgins Lake. The way up was mainly traffic, although we did have clear patches where we could go 65mph. Fortunately, no evasive manuvers, but everything went well. The way home was at higher speeds, mostly 60-65mph. We got caught in the leading edge of a thunderstorm which had very gusty crosswinds.

So, how did the Flex do????

WEll, I won't pretend it is equivalent to the Super Duty, but it did an admirable job. I put the trans in hill-descent which is a lot like tow-haul. The torque converter tries to stay locked whenever possible, and it holds gears longer to prevent hunting. It downshifts as you slow and locks out 6th gear. That isn't a problem anyway since the trans never wanted to go higher than 5th.









So, with the Equalizer dialed in, sway was controlled. I could feel the wind gusts, but they were reasonable. In the worst of it I slowed down to 60mph and it was very stable then. The trans wanted to run in 4th for most of the trip (1:1), but if it was flat or downhill would run in 5th which equates to ~2300 rpm at ~65mph. 3rd gear is busier since the engine is at 3300 rpm...

Manuvering was a breeze after dealing with 30+' trailers for the past 4 years...









The big downside I found was on acceleration. No, it's not the power........









The Flex has no noticeable torque steer when driving solo, even when at WOT. Well, throw four thousand pounds behind it and mash the throttle and you'd better hold on.








(Ok, so maybe it's not _that_ bad, but there is noticeable torque steer and you do need a hand on the wheel to keep the car in the lane)

Anyway, overall I am pleased with the experience. I'd recommend the AWD if it doesn't cut payload capacity too much, but otherwise that 3.5L V6 does an admirable job with it's limited resources....

Therefore, don't dispair with higher fuel costs and CAFE regs. If Keystone can figure out how to pull out a few thousand pounds, a 210RS could be Crossover towable too!


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## joy-rick (Jan 27, 2008)

Nathan said:


> Ok, so I got the hitch dialed in so for Memorial day, we headed 3 hours north (that takes 5 hours on a holiday weekend for those who don't live in MI)
> 
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> 
> ...


Nathan,

Can you amplify a little on this phenomenon that you refer to as "torque steer"? Not being an automotive engineer, I have never heard that term. It might, however, explain why, in the mountains last week, my F-150 wanted to pull to the right when I was going uphill at higher RPM. BTW, is this analogous to a piston airplane trying to veer off the runway during a high RPM takeoff?

Thanks,
Rick


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

Glad all went well Nathan.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

joy-rick said:


> Nathan,
> 
> Can you amplify a little on this phenomenon that you refer to as "torque steer"? Not being an automotive engineer, I have never heard that term. It might, however, explain why, in the mountains last week, my F-150 wanted to pull to the right when I was going uphill at higher RPM. BTW, is this analogous to a piston airplane trying to veer off the runway during a high RPM takeoff?
> 
> ...


Torque steer does feel a LOT like an airplane on takeoff (Not sure if it is still an effect if the airplane is on a conveyor belt...







). Of course the mechanics are slightly different, but the feel is the same. The stuff I'm familiar with is all FWD since you are putting power through the steering wheels and the half shafts are different lengths, etc... 
My 1990 Dodge Spirit (turbo) had it terribly when the turbo spun up. It's been so long since I felt it I'd almost forgotten about it.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I wonder if the awd version would have less torque steer?

How much does the rear end drop? What is the sag front and rear loaded versus empty?

Glad it went well!

Carey


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> I wonder if the awd version would have less torque steer?
> 
> How much does the rear end drop? What is the sag front and rear loaded versus empty?
> 
> ...


The rear end drops ~1/2" and the front ~1/4". That's with ~450lbs on the tounge and the Equalizer dialed in. With no WDH, the rear only dropped 1" and the front raised a little. This made dialing in the WDH more difficult with so little suspension travel.

I'm guessing AWD would fix the torque steer since I've driven the Ecoboost versions (which are all AWD) and they have no torque steer even at WOT.









Of course the only way to tell for sure would be to buy an AWD model, but that's an expensive experiment and I think that would land me in the dog house with the DW.


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## Blackjack (Jan 8, 2010)

That's a heavy load on the tongue weight. Isn't the Flex max tongue weight 450 lbs?


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Blackjack said:


> That's a heavy load on the tongue weight. Isn't the Flex max tongue weight 450 lbs?


Yes, I'm right at max weights all around. I'm under, but we're talking about lbs under, rather than hundreds or thousands of lbs. The Flex payload is 1160lbs (for our model) and we've got about 200 lbs of spare cargo capacity once you figure in the family, the gear (it's minimal), the Equalizer and the trailer.

BTW, I've measured the weights with my own scale, so they are not brochure weights...


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Whats the height full of fuel, with trailer hooked up and with the family in the car. Versus empty. Thats what I was wondering.

The suspension loses control as it approaches capacity. Its possible you may need to add more wd bar load to help compensate for the family weight.

This could aid in stability in the wind, and on rough roads. The closer you can stay to the factory suspension travel, the more control you will have in these situations.

Since that flex prolly only has say 4 inches of wheel travel versus a 1/2 ton pickup with say 8 inches means that you need to keep the car at no more than around 1 inch total sag and still have good control and a decent ride. That would put the suspension at 75% of its ability over the factory height. Any automotive suspension that is loaded past around 75% quickly begins to lose its ability to control all the forces that are applied to it from an rv in tow.

You might need a friend to do the measuring Nathan.

Carey


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

What is this "Ecoboost" you speak of? I had thought those nice motors were Twinforce!!!!!
















-CC


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

collinsfam_tx said:


> What is this "Ecoboost" you speak of? I had thought those nice motors were Twinforce!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If the marketing guys want EcoBoost, then that's what they can call it!









I had another post typed up, but apparently it's sitting on my computer at work waiting for me to click 'Add Reply'
Well, there's always tomorrow.


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## TexanThompsons (Apr 21, 2009)

Cool. Now when they can make one the new smart cars can pull...then I'm in. Wait, how in the world will I get 4 kiddos into one of those? Is it legal to let them ride in the trailer?


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Whats the height full of fuel, with trailer hooked up and with the family in the car. Versus empty. Thats what I was wondering.
> 
> The suspension loses control as it approaches capacity. Its possible you may need to add more wd bar load to help compensate for the family weight.
> 
> ...


Interesting point. I'll try to get some measurements next time we tow somewhere. There won't be much of a change to the back since the only things that were missing when I setup the hitch were passengers, and the kids in the back seat weigh a whopping 80 lbs combined.







I also could add a washer to the Equalizer to transfer a tad more weight and see if that changed things.

Really the Flex handled things very well. I haven't had a towing ride that smooth since we got rid of the pop-up. Unlike in the F150 (or even the F350 with the 5'er), there was no push or rear end squat under moderate to hard braking (for stoplights and such). It really made the drive uneventful.


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## muddy tires (Jun 22, 2007)

TexanThompsons said:


> Cool. Now when they can make one the new smart cars can pull...then I'm in. Wait, how in the world will I get 4 kiddos into one of those? Is it legal to let them ride in the trailer?


Well they are diesel so should be good to tow. You just might need to gang 2 or 3 together like locomotives on a long train.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Yeah it sounds great Nathan. But I know you as much as I strive for perfection.

No biggie when you get the chance it would be good to know the total sag measurement since you are right at GVW for the flex.

Ive seen proly 3-4 towing trailers. All were Rpods and that new MPG trailer. Ive also seen a few guys pulling there lawn mowers on a utility trailer. The flex looks to be a very good platform for towing up to about the size you have. Now that I am looking, there are quite a few flex's being used to tow stuff.

Carey


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## russlg (Jul 21, 2008)

The Flex is rated at 4500lbs in either variety, AWD or FWD as long as it is equipped with the Heavy Duty Class III Tow Package.

Carey... are you calling Nathan fat??







jk!!

Remember when your Dad's 1972 Impala or LTD could tow _anything_ ?? Full framed cars were like todays 1/2 ton pickups!!


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

russlg said:


> The Flex is rated at 4500lbs in either variety, AWD or FWD as long as it is equipped with the Heavy Duty Class III Tow Package.
> 
> Carey... are you calling Nathan fat??
> 
> ...


Correct, 4500 lbs. Our SEL FWD has a 1160 lb payload. Interestingly, unlike the pickups you run out of GCWR faster than GVWR. Also, one thing that I swear helps is that the Flex weighs more than the trailer (If you include the tounge weight). No one wants to talk about that, but I see it as a contributor to handling emergency situations....


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Yeah it sounds great Nathan. But I know you as much as I strive for perfection.
> 
> No biggie when you get the chance it would be good to know the total sag measurement since you are right at GVW for the flex.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, I'll never be completely satisfied! I'll ge the measurements when I get a chance.

Incidentally, the DW looked at a RPOD and MPG. Well, let's just say that she wasn't real excited with that one.

I would also guarentee that this will never be the end of it. We'll likely have a more powerful engine before we head west next time (the Diesel spoiled me.....)









Heck, watching my experiences is like watching a soap opera.... There's always a reason to tune in next week....


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