# New Tow Vehicle Or Not?



## coachsrs (Mar 13, 2005)

I have read posts from this site since before purchasing our Outback in '05. A rep told us about the site and we have enjoyed reading and learning from all of your posts. Today, I am relying on those that live or have traveled through the Rockies. We live in Northeast Alabama and our family is planning to travel out west June 2007 to (Mt. Rushmore, Yellowstone, Tetons, and etc.) and then travel south through Colorado and make our way back to Sweet Home Alabama.










My question is will our TV (2003 Tahoe 5.3L V8, 3.42 Rear Axle) be able to withstand all that the Rockies have to offer. We generally travel light. We have had our TT for 2 years and have only towed to FL. Do I need something with a little more gumption to make this trip with the family. I would hate to have problems with my TV on a long trip.









Any insight you could give me on the driving conditions in the area or your thoughts of how my TV might perform in that neck of the woods would be greatly appreciated.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I wouldnt worry. Yes you are gonna be pushing your tahoe to its max, but I think it will handle it. I see that same setup all the time around here. The 3.42 gears are a bummer, but I feel you wont have any trouble, just downshift and get the engine in its torque range. Prolly 35-4000 rpm. and let it do its thing. Those 5.3 are really great engines. You might change your tranny fluid before leaving, and make sure your trans cooler is large enough and working well. I would also add a trans temp guage. As your tranny will be getting the most abuse out of everything.

I'm sure others may feel different, but I would give it a try. Just keep it light, rev that engine and enjoy.. lol

Carey


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## battalionchief3 (Jun 27, 2006)

You wont set any land speed records.....The trans is your weakest link. I see it's an 03 and if you able too, I would get something bigger. The rockys are big, really BIG!! You can do it but I belive you will severly reduce the life of that trans.


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

If I were you I would swap the 3.42 gears for 4.10's your tranny and engine will thank you. Your one of the lucky ones with a 2wd.

John


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

There's quite a few threads on here about Yukon / Tahoe towing experiences if you have time to search a bit. As you can see in my signature, I had a similar Yukon but with 3.73 gears. We have some healthy hills in AZ with 6 - 7% grades for miles. The Yukon did ok and I downshifted to 2nd on many of the biggest hills. But, this was towing a 25RSS which is a bit smaller than yours. You may have trouble holding 30mph in the Rockies.


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## ftroop (Sep 1, 2006)

We towed our tt this summer all over Yellowstone, Mt. Rushmore, and the Rockies into Montana and Idaho. If you can do it, I would recommend moving to a 'burb 2500 with at least a 3.7 axle. I have an 8.1 liter engine and it did wonderfully, but this size engine is hard to find so you would pay a premium. The 6.0 liter would work for you also. Not only do I worry about the tranny on the Tahoe, but the length of your tt verses the size of your tv. You do have to come down those mountains, too! I am talking used 'burbs and not the new one. I have a tendency to overkill, or err on the safe side, but when I am spending my time and money on a long trip, the last thing I need is a major breakdown such as a tranny. My dw feels a lot safer with the bigger tv and engine/tranny, which justifies the testosterone satisfying 8.1!


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

If you have had any thoughts of replacing your TV, now would a good time. Your current TV will do the job, but you will have a difficult time climbing those steep mountains.

Other then the towing issues...have a great time on this trip. Sounds like a lot of fun.


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## Camping Fan (Dec 18, 2005)

coachsrs said:


> My question is will our TV (2003 Tahoe 5.3L V8, 3.42 Rear Axle) be able to withstand all that the Rockies have to offer. We generally travel light. We have had our TT for 2 years and have only towed to FL. Do I need something with a little more gumption to make this trip with the family. I would hate to have problems with my TV on a long trip.


Greetings coachsrs







You're smart to ask questions before heading west on your family adventure - sounds like a great trip, I'm jealous.









I am concerned that you'll be pushing your Tahoe past it's limits once you hit the Rockies though. According to Trailer Lifes' 2003 Tow Rating Guide, your Tahoe is rated to tow a max of 6,700 lbs. You're pushing that limit with your 27RSDS. I don't know if you've ever gone to a truck scale to get an accurate loaded weight for your trailer, but I have, and my 27RSDS weighs 6,800 lbs. loaded (with empty holding tanks). Your weight may be lower than that if you pack very lightly, but I'd bet your trailer still weighs in at least around 6,500 pounds. That doesn't leave you much, if any, margin for safety on your towing limit. You can get away with that if towing on relatively flat ground, but once you hit the grades in the Rockies I think your truck will be struggling, especially with your 3.42 rear end. You also need to factor in a loss of horsepower from your engine due to the higher altitudes you'll be in going over the Rockies. If you change out your rear end to the 3.73, your tow rating goes up to 7,700 pounds. A little more margin for safety, but personally I think you'd still be pushing it in the mountains.

My .02









So how'd I do trying to infect you with "New Truck Fever" ?


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

If at all possible I would really think about a bigger TV
Bigger hills your not going to enjoy it with those 3.42 gears and will be pushing the tv
Just my $.02

Don


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## old_tidefan (Nov 23, 2005)

I think it would make for a stressful trip. I have a tahoe with 3.73's and a 25rss and wouldn't try it. If you are nearing the time of getting a new TV that would be best. I am in Northern Al. too (Huntsville) and some of the steeper climbs here drop me into 2nd.

Good luck


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Just one more to chime in on Yes you'll make it but...

The one thing people forget about when towing in the Rockies isn't the hills, it's the altitude. Where your engine might make 250 hp (imaginary numbers here) at sea level you'll only make ~200 hp at altitude, your torque numbers are about the same. Most of the state of Colorado is above 5000' with many peaks and passes well above 10,000-12,000+. The numbers I gave you are a conservative 20% HP loss at altitude. Will you hit Colorado and feel the loss of power no, but given any amount of grade you will definitely feel the I could have pulled that hill at home syndrome. I've pulled up and down I-70 west of Denver many times and even with my 3/4 ton diesel I still don't like it.

Yes you can travel through Colorado without a 3/4 ton but do plan on traveling during non rush hour times. Starting and slowing on grades due to traffic can rob all your built in momentum.

Good luck and travel safe









Bill.


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

those 3.42 gears will make my internet sad.
Sounds like a new TV is in order.


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## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

Will have to agree with 2500Ram on this one. You'll have a tough time with those gears and that heavy trailer. We previously owned a Yukon XL 5.3l V8 with 4.10 gears towing our lighter 26RS. It did fine, but I know I said it more than once on camping trips, "Without the 4.10s we'd be in trouble." We know own a 3/4-ton Yukon XL with the 6.0l and 3.73 gears. Much better.

Randy


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## Dan V (May 21, 2006)

Sorry to say and you have already heard this , your overweight and underpowered . I had pretty much the same motor/gearing and it would barely handle No. CA mts. much aless the rockies . I even have a much lighter trailer , 21RS - 5000 lbs. fully loaded . If you insist on using your current tow vehicle better figure in a couple extra days and bring your Gold Card , your likely to munch your tranny !


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

BE careful man, I travelled to the Black Hills & through the Rockies last summer and like many have said - those steep grades & high altitude in the Rockies are no joke. Makes the Black Hills look like speed bumps.







With a diesel and a 30' fifth wheel I was only able to maintain 40 mph, but when someone slower got in front of me I would quickly lose all that momentum.














With your current combination you are likely to be around the 25 MPH range and tippy toeing along the safety margin on the down hill runs.

If you can afford a new tow vehicle great, I'de hate to see you have to purchase a new tranny. I drove my Tahoe's tranny into the grave towing a 29' TT.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Hi Keith,

I'm afraid I have to agree with the others... Those 3.42's are going to really hurt. Especially with the elevations you will be traveling. Keep in mind that some of those passes are higher than many small aircraft routinely fly at. I think if a new tow vehicle is at all in the cards, I would jump at some of the deals out there right now.









Also, have you given any thought to the 2007 Western Region Outbackers.com Rally at Zion N.P. in southern Utah? It would not be that far out of your way, and the time frame matches. Also, many of us will be including a loop up to Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons either on our way to, or from, the rally. We sure would love to meet you guys!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

2500RAM brings up a good point. I've read that you lose 3 - 4% of your horsepower on a gasser for each 1,000 feet elevation you climb. I know I struggle towing the 25RSS up the 6-7% grades in northern AZ especially when we climb from 5,000 to 9,000 feet.


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## shake1969 (Sep 21, 2004)

Yeah, it will be a struggle with your setup, I'm afraid. We went to Cripple Creek last summer with the rig in our sig, and did okay. Raton Pass was interesting. I would not have tried it with our old 3.55 Expy.

If you decide to go, get a copy of the Mountain West Truckers' Guide. Look on Amazon.com. It outlines the passes and what to watch out for. Also I'd get a tranny temp gauge, and keep an eyeball on that. And since how you get down the mountain is more important than how you get up, also make sure your brakes are top notch. You may want to flush the braking system and make sure you are not using ceramic pads. Those are a huge no-no in the mountains.

Amazingly, the 40mph headwinds across the panhandle and New Mexico was harder on my rig than the grades.

Hope it works out for you.


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

shake1969 said:


> If you decide to go, get a copy of the Mountain West Truckers' Guide. Look on Amazon.com.


*Great recommendation Shake. I'm gonna buy that resource also... *


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

shake1969 said:


> and make sure you are not using ceramic pads. Those are a huge no-no in the mountains.


Shake,

I had not heard that one before. What is the problem with ceramic pads in the mountains?









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Hick24/7 (Nov 17, 2006)

I would highly recommend the Dodge cummins for pulling anything especially since you will be doing some climbing. You will pass everyone on the road and if you want more power you can put a chip in and gain over a hundred HP and much more torque. Before you do any changes make sure you open the exhaust, put on an air intake and gauges. (Tran, Pyro, Boost, Fuel pressure) some chips can display this information without installing extra gauges.

*Dodge Juice with Attitude*
KEY FEATURES:
â€¢ 5 on-the-fly Adjustable Power Levels
â€¢ Touch-of-a-Button Control
â€¢ Additional 100 HP and 250 ft lb Torque
â€¢ Increases Fuel Economy*
â€¢ Greatly Improves Driveability and Performance 
Level 0: Stock 
Level 1: 25 Horsepower - 80 Foot Pounds of Torque 
Level 2: 40 Horsepower - 120 Foot Pounds of Torque 
Level 3: 60 Horsepower - 150 Foot Pounds of Torque 
Level 4: 80 Horsepower - 150 Foot Pounds of Torque 
Level 5: 100 Horsepower - 200 Foot Pounds of Torque 
Level 6: 160 Horsepower â€" 350 Foot Pounds of Torque

Your Attitude monitor allows you to monitor the performance of your engineâ€™s vital engine components and output values. The following parameters can be displayed on the main Attitude screen (maximum 4 at one time): 
â€¢ Boost
â€¢ EGT
â€¢ Barametric PSI
â€¢ Power Level
â€¢ Speed MPH
â€¢ Engine Coolant Temperature
â€¢ Gear
â€¢ Intake Air Temperature
â€¢ Load%
â€¢ Slip %
â€¢ Transmission Temperature
â€¢ Throttle%
â€¢ RPM
â€¢ Percent Backdown due to high EGT or Boost


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

Hick24/7 said:


> I would highly recommend the Dodge cummins for pulling anything especially since you will be doing some climbing. You will pass everyone on the road and if you want more power you can put a chip in and gain over a hundred HP and much more torque. Before you do any changes make sure you open the exhaust, put on an air intake and gauges. (Tran, Pyro, Boost, Fuel pressure) some chips can display this information without installing extra gauges.
> 
> *Dodge Juice with Attitude*
> KEY FEATURES:
> ...


Lets see now Level 1-6

Why would I want anything but level 6
















John


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## Rich in CO (May 30, 2005)

I think your going to be under gunned with you TV. The hills in Colorado are big, Colorado is either up or down with very little flats if any.

If you can afford to get a bigger TV I would, and I would get as much truck you can this way if you ever decide to up grade your TT you will be good to go. (You can never have to much truck)

I have heard of the ceramic pads thing for towing also. They are suposed to be prone to fading? I have a set on my truck, and have not had any issues, but I also use my exhaust brake, so I might not be a good example.


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## LarryTheOutback (Jun 15, 2005)

You've heard a bunch about weight, perhaps we should talk a bit about wind. The areas you are visiting have lots of wind (often cross-winds), particularly Montanta. Sway could be an issue with your short wheelbase.

As to South Dakota, spend an hour at Mt. Rushmore. Then, go over to Crazy Horse and spend the entire afternoon; make sure you pay extra to take the bus to the base of the mountain.

I'd recommend Rafter J Bar ranch as a GREAT place to camp in South Dakota. Great campsites with lots of room, many in the deep shade. Search for it on the forum and you'll see lots of recommendations.

You might want to read our blog (see signature line) for some things to do in this area.

Have a great trip!

Ed


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

> As to South Dakota, spend an hour at Mt. Rushmore. Then, go over to Crazy Horse and spend the entire afternoon; make sure you pay extra to take the bus to the base of the mountain.
> 
> I'd recommend Rafter J Bar ranch as a GREAT place to camp in South Dakota. Great campsites with lots of room, many in the deep shade. Search for it on the forum and you'll see lots of recommendations.


It's amazing how we are all different, we felt just the opposite, an hour at Crazy Horse and the afternoon at Rushmore. Looking up at those four presidents is inspiring and looking out at the view they have is spectacular. The evening show is fantastic, a great tribute to our nation and our veterans.

At Crazy Horse it appeared to us they were putting all their money into the visitor center complex and hardly working on the carving, even our kids said the same thing. We would rather have stood at an overlook watching them work to complete their monument to the Native Americans than going thru a huge building complex while very little was going on at the carving site.

I totally agree about rafter j bar, one of the nicest campgrounds we've stayed at.

If you can swing a new truck, go for it or just be really careful. Putting 4:10 gears in your tahoe would make a big difference but that's still a lot of trailer for a short wheelbased truck.

Mike


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

> At Crazy Horse it appeared to us they were putting all their money into the visitor center complex and hardly working on the carving, even our kids said the same thing. We would rather have stood at an overlook watching them work to complete their monument to the Native Americans than going thru a huge building complex while very little was going on at the carving site.


I agree, when I first went to Crazy Horse in 1991 and again in '98 I was amazed, inspired, and felt obligated too make a donation to such a huge undertaking and a great tribute to Native Americans. When I took my family again this past summer I got the:

*"get em' off the ride and shove em' into the gift shop Disney World feeling" *









The whole place turned into one giant gift shop (plus $20 per car), even following the restroom signs led you back through the shop maze. I don't know, maybee it's just me - but I felt it took away some dignity and "cheapened" the place.

Anyhow, it will be a great Monument Someday.

I would also recommend Rafter J's. Great place, good staff, horseback riding, close to all the sights, lots of tall pines, and the $2 pancake breakfast was great! I think we stayed in the Ranch camp area - lots of tall pines!!! The website is: http://www.rafterj.com/

Sorry to highjack the post - I had 3 cups of coffe and I'm typin' fast!


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## LarryTheOutback (Jun 15, 2005)

camping479 said:


> At Crazy Horse it appeared to us they were putting all their money into the visitor center complex and hardly working on the carving, even our kids said the same thing. We would rather have stood at an overlook watching them work to complete their monument to the Native Americans than going thru a huge building complex while very little was going on at the carving site.


Huh. Maybe when you went they were not doing much to the mountain for some reason. When we were there, we had the definite feeling tha the guy that took our money at the entrance gate turned right around and bought a box of dynamite for the project. They had three blasts that week. They were working on the horses head ... meaning that they are blasting frequently down to about 12" of the finished surface of the monument.

You are right that it seems like slow progress. I first went there in the 70's, and even now they have just completed the head. That's when I realized that Mt. Rushmore fits into the head of Crazy Horse. This is a project that will not be done in my lifetime ... perhaps by 2050 or 2075.

When I went in the 70's there was an overlook. No visitor center. On this trip we spent several hours at the visitor center after visiting the mountain.

The thing that impressed us was the _passion _ of the folks that worked there. At Rushmore you got the standard NPS message. At Crazy Horse we got passion. That's what got us hooked.

BTW, if you go to Crazy Horse, you have to take the (School) bus tour to the base of the mountain. If you stay just in the parking lot / visitor center you miss most of the good stuff. Your mileage may vary.

But, definitely stay at Rafter J Bar.

Ed


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