# Switched To A Diesel



## 2blackdogs (Aug 25, 2005)

I never drove a diesel truck until last Sunday and I was impressed. So impressed that I bought one.
Not long ago a bought a 1996 F350 Crew Cab Dually Long Bed with a 7.5 Gas in near mint condition. I figured that truck was going to last me a long long time.
Wrong.
After driving a few diesels I was amazed with the pulling power of the engine. Yesterday I bought a 1997 F250 with a 7.3 Diesel, also in near mint condition, only 82,000 miles.
I'm itching to get hooked up and go. 
Now I have my F350 and also my 2005 
25RSS for sale. Any interest from anyone in N.M.let me know and I'll give you a good deal on both units as I will be getting a 5'er.
Bob


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## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

Now you're talking. I can smell the fumes just thinking about it.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Congratulations on your F-250. I had one and loved it, but be careful when you go to pick out your 5.

I had a '97 F-250 diesel. Gem of a truck and only had 62k on it when I replaced it last March. I traded it in because I could not legally pull my 28FRLS except as it came in it's dry, factory configuration. Once I loaded it with any amount of gear, I was often over weight on both GVWR and GCWR. GVWR of my rig was 8,800 and the GCWR (which would vary depending on gear ratio) was only 16,000. My available capacities are listed here. It was possible to pull the 5 by shuffling weight around, such as making sure the black and gray tanks were empty and the fresh tank was full so that it lifted some weight off the pin. But even at that, the 28FRLS was only 1000 pounds from hitting my max GCWR for the F-250. If I had already added 400 pounds of fresh water to lift the pin, then it left only 600 pounds I could put in the RV, none of which could be in the basement since it would contribute to much to my TV GVWR and often put me over. All-in-all, it was a bad situation and I weighed my setup a dozen times before I concluded that my 28 was too much for my F-250. So I traded for a 1-ton.

There are a lot of 5's that an F-250 can handle, but probably not an Outback. Something with a pin weight of 1300 and GVWR of 9k or less would probably fill the bill. One of the Trail-Cruisers would most likely be ok.


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

2blackdogs, welcome to the dark side, the black smoke that's a good thing side that is.

Enjoy your Ford and just watch your pin weight like mentioned above. I don't care what diesel you have there is no comparison in torque to a gasser pulling or just playing on the street. I really enjoy passing cars pulling our TT up mountain passes here in Colorado.

Bill.


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## CJ999 (Aug 11, 2005)

We have the same truck, 1997 F250 7.3L... Are the specs gagsta vdub







listed the same whether it's a 2wd or a 4wd?


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

The GVWR should be identical. The GCWR will vary depending on gear ratio and some other factors like auto or manual. Your available weight carrying capacity will definitly vary between the 2x4 and 4x4. The 2x4 will have more available capacity since the "dry" weight of your TV is less to begin with. I'm not sure how much weight the extra axle and transfer case adds, but I would estimate 250 or 300 pounds. My rig was a 4x4.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

vdub said:


> One of the Trail-Cruisers would most likely be ok.


*BLASPHEMY!*

Where's the soap! Somebody needs to have their mouth washed out!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## CJ999 (Aug 11, 2005)

I can see the alure of a 5th wheel but our 28RSDS seems to tow like a dream behind our F250. I have a lumber rack so there is a lot of room to put bicycles and canoes and other good stuff.


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## 2blackdogs (Aug 25, 2005)

From the info that I have gathered concerning my 1997 F250 HD Extended cab 4x2 diesel the
fifth wheel towing capacity is 14,000# and the payload capacity is 3835#. 
I would think that should be enough to pull almost any 35 ft Fifth Wheel.
OR AM I WRONG ?????
Bob


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

I'd say you are right. Good luck with the new truck and 5er.

Bill


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

2Blackdogs.............You could pull doubles

John


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

> OR AM I WRONG ?


You could be right. It all depends on the sticker on your driver door post. I suspect the GVWR (not the axle GAWR) is 8,800, but could be different. Once you have the GVWR, then go weigh your rig with full fuel, pax, and any extra junk. Add about 250 pounds for your 5 hitch. Simply subtract that weight from your GVWR and that will give you your load carrying capacity, i.e., the max pin weight of the 5. As for GCWR, that depends mostly on your gear ratio, so that figure will be in a table in your user's manual. To get your real tow capacity (the 14,000 that you mention), subtract your GVWR from your GCWR -- that gives a max figure. Of course, if your actual TV weight plus the actual pin weight of your 5 is less than your GVWR, then your tow capability is greater by the amount of the difference between actual and GVWR. That make sense?


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Last thing to consider is if your auto or manual tranny. This might not apply to Ford because I don't own one but... on a Dodge according to the dealer manuals, not internet numbers they always lie, with a manual trans I can pull up to 14k, with an auto only 9600 with the same engine 4x4 etc. Worth checking out.

Bill.


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## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

2500Ram said:


> Last thing to consider is if your auto or manual tranny. This might not apply to Ford because I don't own one but... on a Dodge according to the dealer manuals, not internet numbers they always lie, with a manual trans I can pull up to 14k, with an auto only 9600 with the same engine 4x4 etc. Worth checking out.
> 
> Bill.
> [snapback]75577[/snapback]​


My manual shows the Max GCWR as the same for the auto or manual. 23000lbs. For some reason it doesn't list the gross trailer weight with auto versus manual. 12,500lbs for weight distributing. Nuff for me.


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Congrats 2BlackDogs on your new to you diesel. I'm real close to doing the same thing myself. Been looking at an '04 Excursion 6.0 PSD all week, and hopefully will finalize things tomorrow.

Tim


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## 2blackdogs (Aug 25, 2005)

vdub said:


> > OR AM I WRONG ?
> 
> 
> You could be right. It all depends on the sticker on your driver door post. I suspect the GVWR (not the axle GAWR) is 8,800, but could be different. Once you have the GVWR, then go weigh your rig with full fuel, pax, and any extra junk. Add about 250 pounds for your 5 hitch. Simply subtract that weight from your GVWR and that will give you your load carrying capacity, i.e., the max pin weight of the 5. As for GCWR, that depends mostly on your gear ratio, so that figure will be in a table in your user's manual. To get your real tow capacity (the 14,000 that you mention), subtract your GVWR from your GCWR -- that gives a max figure. Of course, if your actual TV weight plus the actual pin weight of your 5 is less than your GVWR, then your tow capability is greater by the amount of the difference between actual and GVWR. That make sense?
> [snapback]75574[/snapback]​


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## 2blackdogs (Aug 25, 2005)

vdub said:


> > OR AM I WRONG ?
> 
> 
> You could be right. It all depends on the sticker on your driver door post. I suspect the GVWR (not the axle GAWR) is 8,800, but could be different. Once you have the GVWR, then go weigh your rig with full fuel, pax, and any extra junk. Add about 250 pounds for your 5 hitch. Simply subtract that weight from your GVWR and that will give you your load carrying capacity, i.e., the max pin weight of the 5. As for GCWR, that depends mostly on your gear ratio, so that figure will be in a table in your user's manual. To get your real tow capacity (the 14,000 that you mention), subtract your GVWR from your GCWR -- that gives a max figure. Of course, if your actual TV weight plus the actual pin weight of your 5 is less than your GVWR, then your tow capability is greater by the amount of the difference between actual and GVWR. That make sense?
> [snapback]75574[/snapback]​


It sounds really complicated. I do not think I will have any problems as long as I stay under the 14,000#. I think I will be looking at a dry weight of around 11,000#
Bob


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

2blackdogs said:


> vdub said:
> 
> 
> > > OR AM I WRONG ?
> ...


Just remember that if you go with a 11K unit, that means you will have roughly 2000 lbs. of extra pin weight going into the bed.  That will probably put you over on GCWR for the truck.

I am not a nay sayer....... I just went through all of these calculations with my 3/4 Chevy. We are real close. With that said.....We are still looking at 5er's.

Good luck.

Tim


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## RLW7302 (Feb 27, 2005)

2blackdogs said:


> It sounds really complicated. I do not think I will have any problems as long as I stay under the 14,000#. I think I will be looking at a dry weight of around 11,000#
> Bob
> [snapback]75631[/snapback]​


This is a topic that seems very difficult for folks to get their head around. It took me a while to get to where I _think_ I understand it.









So here's my "simplification" ...

GVWR of the TV is set by the manufacturer, and nothing you do the truck will change it. Usually, for a given 3/4 truck, the GVWR is the same for both the gas and diesel versions. For my truck, it's 9,200#. The GVWR tells you how much the truck can _carry_. Your "Payload" will be the GVWR minus the actual weight of the truck. This will tell you how much pin weight you can carry for a 5er. For me, it's 9,200 - 6,580 = 2,620#. Anything you put _in_ the truck that was not included in the wieght (e.g., family, dogs, firewood, etc.) will deduct from your available payload.

The GCWR of the TV is also set by the manufacturer, but _does_ vary based on the engine type. For my gasser, it's 16,000#. Same truck with a diesel, and it jumps to 22,000#. This tells you how much you can _pull_ (GCWR minus the actual weight of your truck). For me, it's 16,000 - 6,580 = 9,420.

So when you're looking at the 5ers, you need to figure out:

1.) How much do I have to "carry" (pin weight), and

2.) How much to I have to "pull" (total trailer weight).

I hope that helps. Good luck! (and congrats on your new TV).

- Roger.


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

Roger,

Good summary. I would add that each axle of the TV has a separate axle weight rating. These are found on the door jamb sticker, designated Front GAWR and Rear GAWR. GAWR=Gross Axle Weight Rating. In the case of a 5'er, 100% of the pin weight typically goes on the rear axle since there is no weight distribution for 5'ers. This assumes that the vertical axis of the pin in not positioned ahead of the rear axle, which it should not be in a pickup.

I would suggest loading the TV as you would for towing including the hitch, fuel, tools, people, etc, and then weighing the TV's rear axle. Subtract that number from the truck's Rear GAWR and you will know what pin weight your truck can handle. Or if you have your 5'er already hitched, weigh the rear axle and see how much under/over the Rear GAWR you are. Hopefully you're not over.







Of course, the pin weight would be for a loaded 5'er, not dry weight.

Bill


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## dougdogs (Jul 31, 2004)

Wow, what a difference Roger. your truck is just like mine. But loaded, I tip the scales at just under 7500 pounds.

Duramax sure adds a bunch of weight

edited. . .thanks John, my wife reads this forum too!!


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Oh, I ain t touching that one Doug


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## RLW7302 (Feb 27, 2005)

cookie9933 said:


> In the case of a 5'er, 100% of the pin weight typically goes on the rear axle since there is no weight distribution for 5'ers. This assumes that the vertical axis of the pin in not positioned ahead of the rear axle, which it should not be in a pickup.
> [snapback]75734[/snapback]​


That's exactly right. My hitch sits just barely ahead of the axle (I have a short bed). As such, only 20# of the pin weight transferred to the front axles



cookie9933 said:


> I would suggest loading the TV as you would for towing including the hitch, fuel, tools, people, etc, and then weighing the TV's rear axle. Subtract that number from the truck's Rear GAWR and you will know what pin weight your truck can handle. Or if you have your 5'er already hitched, weigh the rear axle and see how much under/over the Rear GAWR you are. Hopefully you're not over.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I second that! Though I didn't take the whole family with me, I had almost everything else. And I know what they weigh!









I missed Doug's un-edited comment, so I'll just have to let my imagination go!









Happy camping.
- Roger


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