# 28BHS Sink Drain



## more.power (Jan 29, 2004)

I am getting the sink replaced in my 28BHS because the draiin is too high and the water doesn't drain well. Keystone is supplying the replacement counter but not paying for the labor. Has anyone else had the sink replaced? If so did Keystone cover it?


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Ours doesn't drain completely, not to worried about it, my wife hasn't said anything. I am going to glue a piece of plywood to the underside of the counter next to the sink to stiffen it up though.


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## rerion (Jan 18, 2004)

more.power

I would like more info on getting Keystone to replace you sink and counter top. We have the same problem in our 23fbs model and we fought with them on numerous occasions and were told "too bad" they were not considering that a warranty issue and would not replace it.

I would gladly pay for the labor to put it in if they would supply the sink and countertop. Could you supply me with the name of the person you are dealing with at Keystone?

Thanks for your help.

Ron


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## JimWilson (Feb 24, 2004)

Hmmm... seems like Keystone (still) doesn't understand customer service, do they? I just joined the forum to see what the Outback was like (I've also looked at the Caravan and Frontier, as well as a bunch of the "tradional" hybrids). But I hear an awful lot of less then comforting things about the Outbacks and Keystone. Sigh.


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Jim,

I think you will find almost all of us are very happy with our trailers other than a few minor annoyances. What is very important with any trailer you purchase is that the dealer stands behind it. Having a good service department can make all the difference between being very happy with your rv and hating it. When we got our truck (used) we had it back a half dozen times for warranty work, now everything is worked out and we are thrilled because our gmc dealer was very professional. Our trailer has only been back 2 times and the dealer was very accomodating and professional giving us confidence in the product and it's dealer.

We're very happy with our trailer and don't let any minor inconveniences bother us, it can always be fixed, we're out there to have a good time.

Mike


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## bassplunker (Dec 2, 2003)

Mike, I like your philosophy. On our very first trip I was just leaning on the kitchen table a bit while I was tightening the slide out knobs a section of the top and side of the table broke off. Oh well. We just threw a table cloth over it and enjoyed the rest of the trip. When we got back we call the dealer and told them how cheap we thought the table was made. They said, "No problem. We'll order a new one for you." I thought about making another one out of 100% wood and just using the hardware from the table though. Maybe if it breaks again.


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## rerion (Jan 18, 2004)

We also like our Outback. There have been several small problems that either I have fixed myself or the local dealer has fixed without charge. I do have to question the quality control at trailer manufacturers if we are just supposed to look the other way when something is wrong. I am not sure this is sending the right message to those people. Maybe $15000 to $20000 isn't a big deal to all of you but it is to me. I wonder if more of us would get "mad as hell" if maybe they would listen more.

As I stated, we really like our Outback but because of the cavalier attitude of Keystone customer service, we will never own another. I will take my chances with another company, might get the same results but I have a saying, "fool me once shame on them, fool me twice shame on me." Not going to happen!!


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## JimWilson (Feb 24, 2004)

rerion said:


> I do have to question the quality control at trailer manufacturers if we are just supposed to look the other way when something is wrong. I am not sure this is sending the right message to those people. Maybe $15000 to $20000 isn't a big deal to all of you but it is to me.


I find this to be disturbing as well. And unfortunately, it seems no manufacturer is immune.

About 6 months ago the wife and I went to an RV show in Edison, NJ. They had some Newmar 5th wheels their. For all of you not familiar with Newmar, those guys are (supposed) to be like the Mercedes of RV's; first class stuff all the way.

Well, we were in an $80,000 dollar unit and the bathroom door wouldn't close because it was hitting the frame. What kind of baloney is that? You pay 80 grand for a camper it BETTER be perfect. And this was the unit they had on display at a show!

Scary stuff when you can't even get quality for that amount of money...


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## CamperDC (Oct 30, 2003)

rerion,

I have to agree with JimWilson. I hope you have better luck next time, but I here this same issue from everyone. I had the same problem with Coleman when I had my pop-up. They tried to get out of replacing a defective roof.


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

It is a shame that quality control is not better. But if we as consumers keep on buying junk then that is what the manufacturers will build for us. We look for a product for as little money as possible and then wonder why the quality is not there.

If you think about all the systems and material involved in an rv, you get quite a lot of bang for your buck. 15-20,000 dollars is not a lot of money for the total package. If the manufacturers were to build to a very high quality standard, few of us would be able to afford them or want to pay that much for something we don't use that often. 
I build custom cabinets for a living. The majority of people cannot afford 15-20,000 dollars for a cabinet to put 15,000 dollars worth of audio and video equipment into. But with that price comes a high quality product and good service, if my customer calls me two years down the road and needs a door adjusted or something fixed, we do it, no questions asked. Most of us buy much less expensive furniture and cabinetry and just put up with the lower quality.


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

I'll start by saying...I like my OUTBACK a lot.

I do have some issues with the manufacturer though.

Some issues aren't about quality. They are about putting things together right. Roofs leaking water, compartment doors not holding out the rain...is a design flaw, or lack of employers and employees not doing their jobs as good as they should.
Tightening wires down properly is LAW...not quality. I can put up with fake wood instead of real oak. I can put up with lightweight metals. It's the other things that worry me.

I hope KEYSTONE never gets into the bomb and rocket making business!


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

LOL good points Pete.

I agree that it is employers and employees not doing their job the best they can.

Employees not doing their jobs goes right back to management being more interested in the bottom line than producing a good product. If you listen more to the bean counters than the engineers and supervisors, you will get an inferior product. There needs to be a balance of both. I think it goes back ultimately to the market though, customers wanting more and more at cheaper prices. Labor is the biggest piece of the production pie, cheap labor gives you a cheaper and lower quality product because you wind up with a workforce that is not interested in taking pride in their work.


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## CamperDC (Oct 30, 2003)

This is really a tough subject. My thought is that there is enough blame to go around for both employees and the management staff. It is really hard for me to understand why some folks (typical workforce) simply have no pride in their work. Why they do not understand that if the quality is not there people will tend not to buy and they will loose their job.

But on the other hand, I think a larger portion of the blame needs to go to the executive offices because they are the ones making the decesions. I have worked in large corporations for the last 20 years and what is going on is really sad. The company I currently work for has just announced the best quarter in company history but yet we are being told that we need to cut costs somewhere or we will not be getting any rasies this year. You can bet that the executive staff will get their double digit raises as well as their bonuses. That goes without saying no matter what type of year the company has. It is always the workforce that bears the brunt of the bad decesions made at the top and those that made the decesions are usally immune.

I am really glad to see that these criminals from Enron are going to see some jail time.

Okay, I will get down now.


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## WOODTRAILMAN (Nov 6, 2003)

Okay my time up
I agree with what is being said here. But I have to go with CamperDC on this one. Management and Executives are the larger part to blame. Why is the workforce always the ones taking the wrap for the management decisions. I've been on both sides of the spectrum, but it always trickles down, rarely back up the chain of command (except in the military were I spent 21 years). Sure sometimes you can blame the the quality on the poor wages of the workforce then again, they knew what the job paid when they took it. So there are plenty to point at. No matter what, Everyone should take pride in their work. Please excuse me before my southern hospitlality strays.
Wood


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## KellerJames (Jan 19, 2004)

THANK YOU CamperDC and Wood'man. There ARE some who understand. Thank you.


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## more.power (Jan 29, 2004)

I have not been dealing with anyone directly at Keystone, just my local dealer. He has had it for a while but since it is cold up here I'm in no hurry.


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## kmmh (Sep 30, 2004)

We have the same problem. My dealer said nothing can be done. We also have an expensive extended warranty. No go.

We also can't drain the black tank easily. It has some visible stuff stuck on the bottom.


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## ktmrder (Sep 24, 2004)

When we went to buy our camper a few weeks ago, they told us about the new plant in Oregon and how they got a bunch of "crap". His words. The dealer said they would no longer accept from that plant. And that they needed to get it together. So I say some of the "blame" can go to the dealers as well. they need to speak up when they receive trailers that are poorly made and not sell them to us but send them back!


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## jallen58 (Oct 27, 2003)

Poor quality and customer service is an industry wide problem. My first tt was a Fleetwood product and let me tell you their customer service stinks!! my brother has a comfort and he has had poor experience with their customer service. Bottom line no mater witch RV you buy there will be issues that you feel should be covered under warranty and they wont. Just go to that other forum and see all the complaints over there. I have had great service from keystone every time I have had to contact them. Buying an RV is a crap shoot some are lucky and have no problems and others have few or many (IMHO)

Jim


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