# Guidance For Newbie



## sirtwisty (Feb 15, 2010)

Hi To All Outbackers
My wife and I are first time purchasers of a travel trailer or 5th wheel.
The Outback 230 & 280 RS with the side ramp, have caught our attention.
We like the side ramp as we intend to carry our BMW motorcycle on board.
We also like the quality that we see in the product, plus the slide out at the rear makes for a more compact rig to maneuver.
We'll be using a new Tundra as a tow vehicle.
Having said this, we have some questions that hopefully we can get input on from Outback owners.
1) While we like the the 230 & 280, they are trailers, and some folks we have talked to, say that 5th wheels are much easier to pull.
These are people that started with a trailer, and then eventually moved on to a 5th wheel. They say that there is no swaying or bucking 
with the 5th wheel. 
In that we have not towed either, are these folks correct? Are there any problems towing a trailer over a 5th wheel? Are there hitch or
sway bar installments that one should make if we go the trailer route?
2) With respect to the cargo area --- We know the trailer is aprox 8 ft wide, which with the wheel base of my BMW, gives us enough room to
load our bike.
Our question here is---- Is it at all possible to load on 2 bikes? Although it's not essential, it would be nice to have friends join us 
on a trip. Most of our buddies ride Harley's , which have a longer wheel base than 96 inches, and will not fit straight in.
Is there a way to load the BMW straight in, and then get a Harley in on an angle, or is this totally impossible.
3) Lastly, any other input on the pros/cons of an Outback would be greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks
Terry & Judy Smith


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)




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## sunnybrook29 (Oct 7, 2009)

Sure , a fifth wheel is easier to pull, but,you will lose the use of the bed in your pickup. Its a trade off !
There are thousands and thousands of people towing tag along trailers who would have it no other way ! I have had 3 fivers and ten or so tag along trailers. I pull a 30 foot tag along, bumper pull now as I need the bed of the truck for working on the road and we can haul our fishing kayaks on top of the pickup.
There is a learning curve pulling either one ! 
I think your idea of the BMW inside is a good one. If Mr. Harley comes along, would your BMW fit in the back of the Tundra?
The reason a fifth wheel is easier is that it spreads the weight out a little bit better, but load levelers will help on your bumper pull. A bumper pull will wiggle wag more also but once you figger that out you should do fine { thousands do }.
Its all a compromise, buy the one that you like . Ask ten people and you will get ten different answers. The twenty three has as much room as most 28 footers.I was gonna buy a 23 until my job changed and I needed more weight carrying capacity, I like em !


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Welcome to Outbackers!!!

Ahh yes, the 5th wheel vs TT debate. I've owned both and can provide some insight.

I had a 28RSDS (about the same length as the 280RS) and towed it with a F150. IMO, the trailer was too long for the truck. I was right at my GVWR with the tounge weight which also probably hurt the handling, but I never felt comfortable after the first time a wind gust pushed me off the road... I upgraded to a 1 ton truck which fixed the stability issues, but then we could tow a 5th wheel, so we then went that route. Assuming you are within your truck's limits, the difference is.... different.









A TT has more tendancy to wag it's tail, and that wagging will feed back into your vehicle (this is what your sway control is for). Additionally, if a wind gust pushes the TT sideways, it will be pushing sideways on the rear bumper of your truck which will tend to have the truck turn into the wind. Think of it as a big weathervane.








Now, with a 5th wheel, if the trailer is pushed sideways, it acts jsut above the rear axle, so the rear tires take up the side load and the truck doesn't rotate. However, if you get a BIG crosswind, the joint is above the axle, and therefore it can cause your truck to lean. I've noticed this more with my Dad's 3/4 ton than my 1 ton and I attribute some of the increased stability on mine to the heavier springs.

If you are riding on rough roads, a tt will pitch forward and backward which will cause your truck to pitch forward and backward. With a 5th wheel, it is more of a forward/backward movement rather than a pitching. Either is unpleasant and may require you to slow down to keep the natural frequency of the vehicle form lining up with the undulations in the road.

On manuvering, a TT will more closely follow your truck, where a 5th wheel cuts in severely on corners. However, when backing up a 5th wheel (with the right equipment) you can jacknife it (the truck can turn 90 degrees relative to the trailer) which can really help in certain situations.

If I had my choice, I would tow a 5th wheel for the stability, but have it behave like a TT in parking lots and campgrounds (so it tracked better with the truck).









Now, the other issue I should mention is that a 5th wheel essentially requires a 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck due to the pin weight. That is typically 20-25% of the 5th wheel's wieght (whereas a TT tends to be more like 10-15% on the hitch). This eliminates all but the very lightest 5'ers for 1/2 ton trucks.

My personal suggestion would be the 230RS if you want to keep the Tundra, OR either the 280RS or a 5'er toyhauler if you want to get a bigger truck (and then have plenty of room for the bikes).

Let me know if you wnat more specifics to any of my comments. Good luck with your decision.


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## TexanThompsons (Apr 21, 2009)

ditto Nathan...don't know that I could add anything!









Oh, and WELCOME!!!


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## sirtwisty (Feb 15, 2010)

H Again
Thanks to all who have answered so far. There has been some great feed back which has confirmed even more how appealing we find the 230/280 RS.
Just another thought---While looking at the floor plan again, is it at all possible that I could get either the front or rear end of the BMW through the entrance doorway to the kitchen.
The bike/bikes, would only be in the trailer while in transit, so they would not be in the way.
Once we stop, they would be unloaded, and remain unloaded until it's time to head home.
Thanks
Terry


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## sunnybrook29 (Oct 7, 2009)

Which BMW have ya got and will ya loan it to me to take to bike week?


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

I agree that you need to stay with a TT over a Fiver with the Tundra.

Another thing you might consider......take your bike to a local dealer and try it in the trailer to see exactly how it fits and how much room you have. That way you don't have to worry about someone else's measurements or sayso.

Good luck on your decision. And welcome to Outbackers!

Mark


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

I would have to agree that if you wanted to go with a 5er you would really want to get a bigger truck. The only problem I see is by putting the bike inside the camper, you are adding a bunch of weight to the hitch. I know that others do this but to me it would make more sense to install rails and ramps to put the bike(s) in the back of the truck. I have only pulled a larger popup on the bumper but when I did there was a big difference in towing when I had the camper loaded heavy on the front as when I had it more balanced. Just a thought. As far as which unit to get, I would suggest with the lighter truck you should stay with the 23' TT. I know that the Tundra would pull the 28' but the problem comes not in getting it started but getting it stopped. Also, with a lighter truck, you may have some problems when pulling in strong weather.

As far as if a 5er would pull better, it just pulls differently. On of the main reasons you see TT mostly limited less than 30' and 5'ers starting at 28' and up is because the bigger campers are not only more difficult to pull and control but also would for the size add 7 to 8 ft. to the length over a 5er.

Good luck and just get what you like and would work for you. Hopefully the dealer will help you with getting a proper setup of the hitch, etc. and not allow you to be too wild on the getting something that would be unsafe for you to pull.


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## Java Hounds (Oct 17, 2008)

I just went and measured and the doorway from cargo to kitchen is approximately 31.5 inches wide.
There is an accordian door which takes up about 3.25 inches of that space. If your bike is really close to those
measurements, I can remeasure exactly in the daylight.

Hope that helps,
Beth


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## sirtwisty (Feb 15, 2010)

Beth
Thanks so much for taking the measurements.
I'll chech the width of the bike tomorrow, ans see how wide it is.
I'm also intend on getting in touch with Keystone, to see whether I can get the complete dimensions of the "garage" area.
I should then have a better idea.
Thanks
Terry


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## Java Hounds (Oct 17, 2008)

Glad to help.
If you'd like any other measurements, just ask.


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## Texas Friends (Feb 12, 2006)

What model Beemer are you riding?


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## sirtwisty (Feb 15, 2010)

Hey "Dudes & Dudettes"
I'm a die hard Beemer nutcase, at least according to my wife.I've had a bunch of them, but my current ride is a black Limited Edition 2004 R1150 RT. I found it last year north west of Chicago, it had only 1800 miles on it.I've got it set up real comfy, with a fair bit of after market add ons.
When I'm on my own. I can knock off 1,000 mile days pretty easily. With my wife on back, it's 2-300 max, as she starts to fall asleep on me.
We live in Ontario, Canada, so the plan with the trailer, is to tow it down to southern CA, TX, and AZ, in November, do some touring, leave it and the bike wherever, and then fly down in March/April for more touring.
We can't ride here in all the snow from Dec-April, so that's the best plan we can come up with, plus the bike may as well be in the sunny south.
We'd then tow it back home end of April, and use it to tour one of my all time favourite areas, the Appalachian mountains in WV, VA, TN,NC, and GA.
I've done several bike trips down there and absolutely love it.
Thanks
Terry & Judy


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## twincam (Jan 11, 2010)

check with Marci at lakeshore rv for measurements, 231 788 2040


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## TundraRoo (Mar 9, 2010)

Hi everyone, I'm also a newbie to this great site. I'm following this discussion with great interest having joined to learn as much as I can before deciding on either the 230RS or 280RS. I have a 2010 Tundra 5.7L 4x4 CrewMax (10,100# tow rating) and also intend to use the Roo to haul our 2 Yamaha Dual Sport Bikes- both are smaller and lighter than your beemer but in concept were thinking along similar lines. I'm focused on the Outbacks because of the quality, amenities and in short the value. I wouldn't consider a 5'er with any 1/2 ton including the new Tundra though.

BTW - I'm leaning towards the 280RS
Cheers from Coarsegold California - 14 Miles to Yosemite NP


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