# Towing Fatalities



## Rob_G (Feb 16, 2006)

This article just came out in one of the local papers today and it really made me think. I can't imagine the heartfelt loss that this couple must be feeling right now.

At the same time, look at the setup this guy had. Being a previous Double "D" owner, I couldn't imagine towing something that long with that short of a wheel base.

I just wanted to use this to tell everyone to be safe this camping season.


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## campingnut18 (Mar 11, 2004)

thats just so sad. 
things i see people doing while towing just makes me sick.

our prayers go out the the family.

campingnut


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## TurkeyBranch (Mar 12, 2009)

That is horrible. The pain and emotional stress must be unbearable.

I guess this is a perfect example of just because your vehicle has the tow weight capacity doesn't mean it will do it. There was someone on here yesterday wanting to pull a 31 foot with a durango.


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## mmblantz (Jul 1, 2007)

Horrible accident. My thoughts go out to the family. I hope this makes people that are towing trailers that big with an undersized TV to reconsider their combo. ---Mike


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

Stories like this break my heart. I can't even imagine going through what this family is going through right now. I have a freshman son and it is unbearable to even think about.

Please, EVERYONE...

UNDERSTAND the dynamics involved in towing. Don't just take manufacturer's words and numbers and and use them as the basis for keeping your family safe. Know your system components and the limits of each of those components.


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## 'Ohana (May 20, 2007)

TurkeyBranch said:


> That is horrible. The pain and emotional stress must be unbearable.
> 
> I guess this is a perfect example of just because your vehicle has the tow weight capacity doesn't mean it will do it. There was someone on here yesterday wanting to pull a 31 foot with a durango.


It's also sad that more often than not the person has already bought their dream TT, and cannot under stand all the negative responses they will recieve when asking the question as to weather they can safely tow it with their less than capable TV of which they are generally not in the position to upgrade.

Ed


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## battalionchief3 (Jun 27, 2006)

I still feel salesmen and dealerships should be held partially responsable for telling people its OK to tow something they know they should not be towing. You cant buy a motorcycle and ride it out of the dealership without a motorcycle license. Or a car. The only thing govt would do for you is make you test and pay money, like a CDL endorsement. I dont want any more fee's. People would still do what they want to do anyhow, they cant be stopped but if dealerships were to stop selling big campers to little trucks and suv's peoples lives would be saved. I still cant belive police dont stop us ( campers ) when they pop commerical trucks and do DOT stops along the highway. I get waved through. Crashed will happed but a little enforcement of chains, break aways and other saftey equiptment would make the road a safer place.


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

battalionchief3 said:


> I still feel salesmen and dealerships should be held partially responsable for telling people its OK to tow something they know they should not be towing.


They are held responsible in many cases. You just don't hear about them because the case is usually settled and both parties put under a gag order.


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## JerseyGirl86 (Mar 30, 2009)

Is this my warning or what??? Durango pulling a 30 ft. trailer?!?! And my oldest son is a freshman! I don't know if any of you saw my post asking about our TV having the ability to pull the 28BHS, but this is by far the best answer I got. I swear that OB WILL NOT leave my driveway until Mike gets a different SUV.

We have been looking at Excursions (preferably diesels) and are just looking for the right price. Like I asked before (and thanks, Garethsdad), if anyone knows of any or Suburban 2500s in the NJ, DE, PA area, let me know.

My God, what a devastating loss to that family!


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Unfortunately he was thrown from the vehicle which more than likely means he was not wearing a seatbelt either. While I don t disagree that the Durango was not a good vehicle for a 30 ft trailer, lets not blanket condemn that as the cause. Unfortunately, by the time the investigation is finished, many won t care or read it.

John


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## Rob_G (Feb 16, 2006)

Because this did hit a bit close to home, I tried to find a local article in NC where it happened. Found one with a slideshow. You can tell from the photo's that this was a 2nd gen Durango, with the 119" wheelbase as opposed to the shorter 1st gen Durango.

I don't know what you have there JerseyGirl, but I'd start thinking about a new tow vehicle if you're looking at that 28BHS.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

From the pictures, it looks like a Tango 299.

Length: 30' 6" Width: 8' Weight: 5760 # Int Color: Redwood Stk No: 36716

Not a really heavy trailer for 30'...but the length is still too much for the wheel base and weight of the Durango. IMHO of course.


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## Compulynx (Oct 15, 2008)

Anybody happen to notice this link in the article?

Linky Linky

C


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## Rob_G (Feb 16, 2006)

Compulynx said:


> Anybody happen to notice this link in the article?
> 
> Linky Linky
> 
> C


Checking it out now actually.


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

Why do most people think a tow vehicle prevents a trailer from swaying out of control? What are the facts behind it?


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

The problem with many of these SUV's - in addition to the short wheelbase - is the high center of gravity. Remember that even though few are used for it, these vehicles are designed for off road use. High ground clearance (thus high center of gravity), short wheelbase and softly sprung they are great for the purpose they were intended for, but those same qualities that make them so great in the bush are the exact opposite of what you need in a safe tow vehicle.

And, as has been said before, when it comes to tow ratings there is 8,000 pounds... and then there is 8,000 pounds (or whatever the rating is). The point is, the towing dynamics of a small utility trailer loaded with 8,000 pounds of bricks is a lot different then that of an 8,000 pound, 30 foot travel trailer. The vehicle manufacturers tow rating is based on what the vehicle has the grunt to pull down the road, and will rightly base the tow rating at what that vehicle can pull in that utility trailer - after all, you may be a contractor that is doing exactly that sort of thing - but once you add the surface area and length of a larger trailer, especially a big box like a travel trailer, the ability to pull the trailer becomes only one of several important considerations. The ability to control the trailer is equally important. That's where tow vehicle wheelbase come into play. Equally important - in my mind - is center of gravity and suspension. You have to look at the whole picture.

This is of course a tragic event, but also something that did not need to happen. Responsibility? I would agree that ethically the dealer should not encourage situations such as this, but ultimately it is the responsibility of the person that slides in behind the steering wheel to make sure they can manage the situation they are facing safely. At sea, it all falls on the captain of the ship, in the air the ultimate responsibility lies with the pilot, and it's no different on the road.

If there is anything good to take from this, at least it drove the point home with our fellow Outbacker JerseyGirl86 in a way that few who have asked the question before have had the benefit.

Summers coming up folks... Let's be careful out there!

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

I've directed people here before , However in light of the discussion I think it's worth a mention again. 
I found this article a great read (especially the topic referring to How Long can I Tow) it discusses 
Why length is such an important factor.

How Long can I Tow

The Family is in my prayers ..Peace..


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

PDX_Doug said:


> The problem with many of these SUV's - in addition to the short wheelbase - is the high center of gravity. Remember that even though few are used for it, these vehicles are designed for off road use. High ground clearance (thus high center of gravity), short wheelbase and softly sprung they are great for the purpose they were intended for, but those same qualities that make them so great in the bush are the exact opposite of what you need in a safe tow vehicle.
> 
> And, as has been said before, when it comes to tow ratings there is 8,000 pounds... and then there is 8,000 pounds (or whatever the rating is). The point is, the towing dynamics of a small utility trailer loaded with 8,000 pounds of bricks is a lot different then that of an 8,000 pound, 30 foot travel trailer. The vehicle manufacturers tow rating is based on what the vehicle has the grunt to pull down the road, and will rightly base the tow rating at what that vehicle can pull in that utility trailer - after all, you may be a contractor that is doing exactly that sort of thing - but once you add the surface area and length of a larger trailer, especially a big box like a travel trailer, the ability to pull the trailer becomes only one of several important considerations. The ability to control the trailer is equally important. That's where tow vehicle wheelbase come into play. Equally important - in my mind - is center of gravity and suspension. You have to look at the whole picture.
> 
> ...


My condolenses adn prayers for the family involved........

Doug made All good points....suspension is often overlooked.......i would also add in tires.....often the SUV's and even 1/2 ton trucks have soft sidewall tires not conducive to a good set up...............and of course you do not want to over look proper sway control for a sail that big...........when i see a trailer that big and see a friction sway bar....i shake my head and then try to strike up a conversation and comment to them how a 24" friction sway bar won't do didly on a 30 foot sail.........

Be safe and drive with in what weather and traffic conditions permit.......

Clarke


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

This is a sad and tragic accident and one that should make all rv families stop, think and evaluate their set-up. I recently posted my observation of an overtuned Outback on I-95 outside of Jacksonville, FL. There is little room for error in the best of set-ups much less in those that aren't. 
I am always amazed and alarmed at some of the rigs I see in my travels. Many, many of them are completely unsafe, overloaded set-ups,r egardless of conventinal travel trailer or fiver. 
There really is a method to the madness when it comes to matching trailer to tow vehicle. When it comes to conventional travel trailers, the longer the wheelbase of the tow vehicle, the better. The exception would be in the case of only the smallest of trailers. I'd never tow a full size, 8' wide trailer with a mid-size vehicle either.
I'm including a link to a site that is a wealth of info about how to match weights, lengths, etc. Perhaps it will provide a better understanding to many who are not clear in this arena. 
Never tow beyond your tow vehciles limits. Don't expect a salesman to guide you. In todays world of inferior customer service, I doubt most really even have a clue. For eample, I stopped at the local CW with a buddy last weekend and the salesman didn't even know what brands he had on the lot. Encourgaing, huh?
Below is he link and happy and SAFE travels to all. Phillip and John

http://www.davidsrvtips.blogspot.com/


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Rob - thanks for posting this. I posted a few days ago a question regarding equalizer setups and want to thank those that responded. From reading the many posts here over the past several months, I gathered valuable information regarding tow vehicles, etc. This information guided me through the process of selecting the right vehicle to pull our 250RS. We chose our hitch and brake controller based upon feedback from earlier posts. I knew nothing about either and am glad I found this website.

There is lots of experience here and please keep sharing your information with those that ask.

Rick


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## Rob_G (Feb 16, 2006)

No thanks neccesary. I posted this because...

1. It's something that's hitting home locally - My niece new these kids when we were talking about this after dinner and planning Memorial Day
2. I saw the concerns about towing such a large trailer with a Durango (JerseyGirl)
.. and most importantly
3. Just to raise awareness for everyone here to be safe with the start of the camping season starting to ramp up.

Remember... towing is easy... stopping is the tricky part!


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## JerseyGirl86 (Mar 30, 2009)

Rob_G said:


> No thanks neccesary. I posted this because...
> 
> 1. It's something that's hitting home locally - My niece new these kids when we were talking about this after dinner and planning Memorial Day
> 2. I saw the concerns about towing such a large trailer with a Durango (JerseyGirl)
> ...


I swear to you all that this TT will absolutely not leave my yard until the right vehicle is pulling it! All I could think about as I looked at those pictures were my children and how I would die inside should anything EVER happen to them. Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention in a way that I could see the kind of tragedy it could cause.

I was out tonight but Mike was online trying to find an Excursion. There are some great deals on 2000 and 2001s.

He thought I was exaggerating until he saw it for himself. That's all it took.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Sean Woodruff said:


> Why do most people think a tow vehicle prevents a trailer from swaying out of control? What are the facts behind it?


It doesn't, it is just one of the components that will significantly limit your ability to tow safely if you have the wrong one as part of your towing combination.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

IMO, there are at least 3 separate items that contribute to safety while towing:

*1. A safe setup, accounting for length, weights, brakes, sway control, etc.....* Unfortuantely we are sortof left on our own here. Weight info is available (although misleading at times). Lengths and sway control solutions are really a free-for-all and many don't want to hear that their 1/2 ton truck can't handle the 35' sail behind them. Brakes are usually "required" but not specified as to controller effectiveness (time delay controllers are worthless in panic situations). Being overly conservative here will give you an additional safety margin and therefore why most of us suggest this practice.

*2. Understanding and being experienced in towing safely....* Training or licensing would be great, but unfortunately we are left to go it alone again here. In the absence of that, experience should be gained by being very cautious. If you are barely in control the first time a big wind gust catches you, it could be very bad. Therefore never push the limits. Keep speeds down, and leave plenty of room for error. Finally, being conservative in #1 will give you added safety margin to handle a mistake in #2

*3. Safety systems....* For these I'll include the preventative systems like mechanical trailer sway control, good brake controller (accelerator based), Electronic stability systems (preferrably with trailer sway control included), Trailer mirrors, and proper maintenance on both the TV and TT. If all else fails, however, the backup safety systems on your vehicle may be needed too: Remember the most important thing you can do is wear your Seat Belt. Of course airbags, including the side curtains if available are a big help should you end up in the ditch. Also, please remember that slow speeds are also a wonderful "preventative safety system" and if that fails will reduce the amount of work the seatbelts and airbags must do.

Finally, it wasn't an accident that I listed some items in multiple categories, I really think they fit there. Everyone please be safe!


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

but ultimately it is the *responsibility of the person that slides in behind the steering wheel* to make sure they can manage the situation they are facing safely. *At sea, it all falls on the captain of the ship, in the air the ultimate responsibility lies with the pilot, and it's no different on the road.

*
Happy Trails,
Doug
[/quote]

well put Doug....


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## Scottyfish (Mar 7, 2009)

As an expert in these matters (traffic collision investigation), I will almost guarantee that 15-year old was unrestrained in the Durango and was thrown from the vehicle during the rollover. Certainly, there are many other safety aspects involved here, but seat belts do save lives. One of the greatest tools in teaching traffic safety are the photographs of the aftermath following mistakes of others. It is sad, but very effective in changing behavior or provoking thought.


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

Compulynx said:


> Anybody happen to notice this link in the article?
> 
> Linky Linky
> 
> C


Yep, I noticed this, and THEN, I noticed the brand of the trailer, and found THIS:
http://www.totalrecallinfo.com/freerecalls.php?id=10731

Wonder if the owner had been made aware, as it certainly looked like a new/relatively new trailer. I also TOTALLY agree with what battalionchief said. Some greedy auto/trailer dealers will tell you that a MOPED can pull a 5er, just to make a sale. I'm glad I don't have to answer for their dealings!

Something else I noticed was that someone had the audacity to place blame, in comments, on that article to a family that's already lost the most precious thing there is......a life! There's a time and place for everything, and right after losing a family member, when the cause of the accident probably hasn't even been determined, yet, from investigation, is HARDLY the time to find fault with someone who's already grieving.

Darlene


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

Doxie-Doglover-Too said:


> but ultimately it is the *responsibility of the person that slides in behind the steering wheel* to make sure they can manage the situation they are facing safely. *At sea, it all falls on the captain of the ship, in the air the ultimate responsibility lies with the pilot, and it's no different on the road.
> 
> *
> Happy Trails,
> ...


Pretty much my thoughts. Although, I do believe that laws ought to at least put some responsibility on the dealer to inform the buyer of the deficiencies of their TV, compared to the trailer that they are buying. At the least, there should be some form for folks to sign stating they have been advised so.

Otherwise, it's like the argument about suing the gun manufacturer when someone gets killed in a shooting.

It is not my intention to stir up controversy, but there are A LOT of folks on this website who get advice from us AFTER they have already bought more trailer than they can safely carry. And I realize it would not be good for the dealer's sales, but they should at least be required to make information available to the owner as to whether or not their TV can safely and reliably tow their trailer of choice BEFORE they buy it. And I say that because most folks cannot afford to go out and buy a more capable TV after laying out a lot of money for the trailer. Most, I think, tell themselves, "I will just drive slowly and carefully until I can see my way clear to upgrade my TV." And a lot of folks, after towing for a few years with no problems, convince themselves that they are just fine as is, and don't make the upgrade - or worse - they get lax in their towing attitudes.

Just my opinion.

Mike


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

Scoutr2 said:


> At the least, there should be some form for folks to sign stating they have been advised so.


Years ago I came up with such a form for dealers to use in regards to towing equipment. It basically said, "Here are your choices for sway control... Option A, Option B and Option C."

Needless to say, only a few of them ever implemented it.


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

My favorite was a dealer who, when asked if they would include an Equalizer hitch in the deal, twisted the meaning to suggest that they would do so when in reality they would put of one those single bar friction deals on the truck. Because it had some form of weight distribution, it was therefore an "Equalizer".









-CC


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

I said it before but will state it again , 
After reading others horror stories regarding Tow vehicles and their RV purchase. I am so thankfull for Ehlers RV. They are most concerned about building a relationship with their customers rather than a 1 time sale.

When I asked "can my truck tow this trailer" their response was yes I believe it can but before we make the sale final lets take a few moments and run the numbers to be sure. We want you safe. Now that's a what I want in a RV dealership. Yes they are there to sell RV's , but they were also concerned with ensuring not only were we were safe but others around us would be safe when we were towing on the road .


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## rames90 (Feb 28, 2009)

Wow, that certainly is scary....

Now maybe my wife will understand why I just bought a 2009 V10 F350 to replace our Yukon.

Going camping is supposed to be fun, not terrifying.


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## kemccarthy (Apr 19, 2009)

Can anyone tell me where I can read general info on wheel base .... I am confused about how it affects your towing.... We just upgraded from a pop-up to a 25RSS that we bought from another outbacker on this site.. He put a Hensley on it, so I know we are good their, and our towing capacity is good. But I want to know how the wheel base of my Tahoe affects how it tows our TT. To read about a tragedy like this makes we want to be as knowledgable as possibly. Thanks for the help.... Kelle


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

kemccarthy said:


> Can anyone tell me where I can read general info on wheel base .... I am confused about how it affects your towing.... We just upgraded from a pop-up to a 25RSS that we bought from another outbacker on this site.. He put a Hensley on it, so I know we are good their, and our towing capacity is good. But I want to know how the wheel base of my Tahoe affects how it tows our TT. To read about a tragedy like this makes we want to be as knowledgable as possibly. Thanks for the help.... Kelle


With a conventional hitch the pivot point is at the hitch ball. The distance from the rear axle of the tow vehicle to the pivot point (i.e.- rear overhang) creates a lever arm. When a side force is placed on that pivot point it is multiplied by that lever arm distance and attempts to turn the tow vehicle. The wheel base of the tow vehicle acts as a counter lever to that force.

With your old orange hitch you won't have the lever arm between the pivot point and the rear axle of the tow vehicle. Your pivot point is projected 52" forward of the hitch ball. Without that load at the end of the lever arm your wheel base does not have to counteract the trailer attempting to turn the tow vehicle.


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## rames90 (Feb 28, 2009)

kemccarthy said:


> Can anyone tell me where I can read general info on wheel base .... I am confused about how it affects your towing.... We just upgraded from a pop-up to a 25RSS that we bought from another outbacker on this site.. He put a Hensley on it, so I know we are good their, and our towing capacity is good. But I want to know how the wheel base of my Tahoe affects how it tows our TT. To read about a tragedy like this makes we want to be as knowledgable as possibly. Thanks for the help.... Kelle


Not sure about a info source but from what I understand the longer the wheelbase the less likely your tow vehicle will be to be swayed by your trailer. When the wind hits your trailer it can cause transverse motion in your trailer (sway) and the farther apart the wheels on your TV are the less your TV will respond to the transverse motion from the trailer. Picture a stick fastened to a board by two nails, the farther apart the nails are the harder it is to rotate the stick, if the nails are close together and the stick is long they will pull out with relatively little force (a longer stick would equate to a longer trailer). Sway bars will stiffen up the TT to TV connection making it more difficult for sway to occur but the hitch ball connection still has to rotate so you can turn corners.

That is how I pictured it anyway, hope it helps.

I replaced my Yukon because it was underpowered, but as far as sway goes I haven't pulled my TT on a windy day yet either.


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## kemccarthy (Apr 19, 2009)

Sean Woodruff said:


> Can anyone tell me where I can read general info on wheel base .... I am confused about how it affects your towing.... We just upgraded from a pop-up to a 25RSS that we bought from another outbacker on this site.. He put a Hensley on it, so I know we are good their, and our towing capacity is good. But I want to know how the wheel base of my Tahoe affects how it tows our TT. To read about a tragedy like this makes we want to be as knowledgable as possibly. Thanks for the help.... Kelle


With a conventional hitch the pivot point is at the hitch ball. The distance from the rear axle of the tow vehicle to the pivot point (i.e.- rear overhang) creates a lever arm. When a side force is placed on that pivot point it is multiplied by that lever arm distance and attempts to turn the tow vehicle. The wheel base of the tow vehicle acts as a counter lever to that force.

With your old orange hitch you won't have the lever arm between the pivot point and the rear axle of the tow vehicle. Your pivot point is projected 52" forward of the hitch ball. Without that load at the end of the lever arm your wheel base does not have to counteract the trailer attempting to turn the tow vehicle.
[/quote]
This is a bit confusing for me. What are your thoughts on my Tahoe pulling a 25RSS. Our tow capacity is 7,900 and I believe our TT wieghs about 4600-5000lbs and like I stated their is a Hensley on it. What kind of wheel base would be best to pull this and is my Tahoe sufficent??/ Thanks


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## kemccarthy (Apr 19, 2009)

kemccarthy said:


> Can anyone tell me where I can read general info on wheel base .... I am confused about how it affects your towing.... We just upgraded from a pop-up to a 25RSS that we bought from another outbacker on this site.. He put a Hensley on it, so I know we are good their, and our towing capacity is good. But I want to know how the wheel base of my Tahoe affects how it tows our TT. To read about a tragedy like this makes we want to be as knowledgable as possibly. Thanks for the help.... Kelle


With a conventional hitch the pivot point is at the hitch ball. The distance from the rear axle of the tow vehicle to the pivot point (i.e.- rear overhang) creates a lever arm. When a side force is placed on that pivot point it is multiplied by that lever arm distance and attempts to turn the tow vehicle. The wheel base of the tow vehicle acts as a counter lever to that force.

With your old orange hitch you won't have the lever arm between the pivot point and the rear axle of the tow vehicle. Your pivot point is projected 52" forward of the hitch ball. Without that load at the end of the lever arm your wheel base does not have to counteract the trailer attempting to turn the tow vehicle.
[/quote]
This is a bit confusing for me. What are your thoughts on my Tahoe pulling a 25RSS. Our tow capacity is 7,900 and I believe our TT wieghs about 4600-5000lbs and like I stated their is a Hensley on it. What kind of wheel base would be best to pull this and is my Tahoe sufficent??/ Thanks
[/quote]
We also have the larger engine in the Tahoe


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## kemccarthy (Apr 19, 2009)

rames90 said:


> Can anyone tell me where I can read general info on wheel base .... I am confused about how it affects your towing.... We just upgraded from a pop-up to a 25RSS that we bought from another outbacker on this site.. He put a Hensley on it, so I know we are good their, and our towing capacity is good. But I want to know how the wheel base of my Tahoe affects how it tows our TT. To read about a tragedy like this makes we want to be as knowledgable as possibly. Thanks for the help.... Kelle


Not sure about a info source but from what I understand the longer the wheelbase the less likely your tow vehicle will be to be swayed by your trailer. When the wind hits your trailer it can cause transverse motion in your trailer (sway) and the farther apart the wheels on your TV are the less your TV will respond to the transverse motion from the trailer. Picture a stick fastened to a board by two nails, the farther apart the nails are the harder it is to rotate the stick, if the nails are close together and the stick is long they will pull out with relatively little force (a longer stick would equate to a longer trailer). Sway bars will stiffen up the TT to TV connection making it more difficult for sway to occur but the hitch ball connection still has to rotate so you can turn corners.

That is how I pictured it anyway, hope it helps.

I replaced my Yukon because it was underpowered, but as far as sway goes I haven't pulled my TT on a windy day yet either.
[/quote]
Thanks for response... Our engine is the bigger one, so we are okay their, just after reading the article about the accident, it makes me want to ask more questions.... Thanks, this does help, Kelle


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## rames90 (Feb 28, 2009)

My wife and I have a 23RS and loaded up it weighs about 7,000 lbs and the towing capacity of the Yukon is about 7,400 lbs. When I pulled the trailer the first time I couldn't stay at or even near highway speed on shallow inclines which was a bit scary because the traffic is quick and heavy between where we live and the Rocky mountains.

Your trailer weight sounds a bit low, I'd make sure you are looking at the fully loaded weight of your trailer (the shipping weight does not include a full tank of water or any camping supplies you bring).

If my Yukon had the larger engine it may have been fine (it certainly would have been better), but I haven't pulled it in windy conditions yet so I don't know about sway issues. My main concern was the lack of power. If you do a trial run for even a few miles on the highway that will tell you a lot about how your towing experience will be.

Our Yukon has the ride control package (AKA softer suspension) which didn't help things either. Everytime we hit one of those low spots in the highway pavement it was like riding a wave for a few seconds after. I saw a post somewhere about wheelbase and recommended trailer length, try searching for that, from what i remember it had a link to rv.com.


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

kemccarthy said:


> This is a bit confusing for me. What are your thoughts on my Tahoe pulling a 25RSS. Our tow capacity is 7,900 and I believe our TT wieghs about 4600-5000lbs and like I stated their is a Hensley on it. What kind of wheel base would be best to pull this and is my Tahoe sufficent??/ Thanks


Yes, your wheel base is fine for that trailer as long as you are using the orange, or the newer design ProPride 3P, hitch.


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## Southpaw (Jul 14, 2008)

Being a first time TT owner (as of last summer), I'm all for a mandatory driving course; one day long, say at a local college; free or low cost. It would have answered a lot of my questions plus given me peace of mind. I was actually shocked the RV dealer I purchased my TT from did not offer a towing course. I watched the rv education dvds for my training.

I also agree...there is more to an accident then the TT set-up; was the teen wearing a seatbelt, what was the speed of the TV; what were the weather conditions leading up to the accident, etc.

On one side note, this adds to my decision to want to upgrade my Silverado 1500 to a 2500 or F-250.


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## kemccarthy (Apr 19, 2009)

Sean Woodruff said:


> This is a bit confusing for me. What are your thoughts on my Tahoe pulling a 25RSS. Our tow capacity is 7,900 and I believe our TT wieghs about 4600-5000lbs and like I stated their is a Hensley on it. What kind of wheel base would be best to pull this and is my Tahoe sufficent??/ Thanks


Yes, your wheel base is fine for that trailer as long as you are using the orange, or the newer design ProPride 3P, hitch.
[/quote]
Thanks for the help, looking forward to our first trip this weekend....Read your blog to my husband and he of course understood it,,,,


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## russlg (Jul 21, 2008)

The reference to wheelbase that you are looking for is here:

4th paragraph down

This whole blogsite is excellent info for anything towing related.

Scooter pinned it at the top of the "Towing" section of the board.


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## kemccarthy (Apr 19, 2009)

russlg said:


> The reference to wheelbase that you are looking for is here:
> 
> 4th paragraph down
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reference, lots of great info to learn about..... This is a great site, love it..... Happy camping...


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## ORvagabond (Apr 17, 2009)

Oregon_Camper said:


> From the pictures, it looks like a Tango 299.
> 
> Length: 30' 6" Width: 8' Weight: 5760 # Int Color: Redwood Stk No: 36716
> 
> Not a really heavy trailer for 30'...but the length is still too much for the wheel base and weight of the Durango. IMHO of course.


This is an interesting discussion for a newbie like me. I just purchased a 2007 (new) 28KRS-30 feet with a 6045 pounds. I am planning to pull it with a Ford Expedition with a 119 wheelbase but as it had an 8900 pound tow rating I thought I was in good shape by adding an Equalizer hitch. No where was mentioned lenght even by the dealer. It appears that it will be toomuch for my rig!


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

AKvagabond said:


> From the pictures, it looks like a Tango 299.
> 
> Length: 30' 6" Width: 8' Weight: 5760 # Int Color: Redwood Stk No: 36716
> 
> Not a really heavy trailer for 30'...but the length is still too much for the wheel base and weight of the Durango. IMHO of course.


This is an interesting discussion for a newbie like me. I just purchased a 2007 (new) 28KRS-30 feet with a 6045 pounds. I am planning to pull it with a Ford Expedition with a 119 wheelbase but as it had an 8900 pound tow rating I thought I was in good shape by adding an Equalizer hitch. No where was mentioned lenght even by the dealer. It appears that it will be toomuch for my rig!
[/quote]

BTW...Congrats on a GREAT Outback!!

You bought a Roo for a reason...what are you hauling in there? What do you think you will add to the Outback in terms of weight?

The 6,045 listed weight isn't really going to be the weight of the Outback as you left the dealers lot. That is the weight the factory lists. Then the "options' are added. All this stuff (like awning, full propane tanks, stove, AC unit, battery, etc..) will *quickly* add another 500-750lbs to the real weight of Outback.

That model also has a 50 gallon water holding tank. I prefer to fill my tank at home so I have MY water...not some unknown water from who knows where. Going with a round number of 8lbs per gallon of water, you have the potential to add another 400lbs in water alone.

Adding the water and the "optional" items to the weight of the Outback and you're now close to 7,000lbs. Using the 80% rule, you are now just at your "safe" towing limit (8900 x 80% = 7,120lbs) and we haven't even added *any* personal items, clothes, food and of course BEER! Again...I have not factored in the Toy(s) you're planning on using the Toy Hauler for.

As an example, my 2004 28RSS has a factory listed weight of 5,270. When I bought my F350 this summer and had the Outback weight tested while adjusting the hitch....it was at 7,300.......2,000lbs over the listed weight. Point is...DONT trust the listed weight. Get it checked!! If you can find a scale (a lot of times along freeways...go on weekend) to get the real weight of the trailer it would be very helpful.


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## ORvagabond (Apr 17, 2009)

Oregon_Camper said:


> From the pictures, it looks like a Tango 299.
> 
> Length: 30' 6" Width: 8' Weight: 5760 # Int Color: Redwood Stk No: 36716
> 
> Not a really heavy trailer for 30'...but the length is still too much for the wheel base and weight of the Durango. IMHO of course.


This is an interesting discussion for a newbie like me. I just purchased a 2007 (new) 28KRS-30 feet with a 6045 pounds. I am planning to pull it with a Ford Expedition with a 119 wheelbase but as it had an 8900 pound tow rating I thought I was in good shape by adding an Equalizer hitch. No where was mentioned lenght even by the dealer. It appears that it will be toomuch for my rig!
[/quote]

BTW...Congrats on a GREAT Outback!!

You bought a Roo for a reason...what are you hauling in there? What do you think you will add to the Outback in terms of weight?

The 6,045 listed weight isn't really going to be the weight of the Outback as you left the dealers lot. That is the weight the factory lists. Then the "options' are added. All this stuff (like awning, full propane tanks, stove, AC unit, battery, etc..) will *quickly* add another 500-750lbs to the real weight of Outback.

That model also has a 50 gallon water holding tank. I prefer to fill my tank at home so I have MY water...not some unknown water from who knows where. Going with a round number of 8lbs per gallon of water, you have the potential to add another 400lbs in water alone.

Adding the water and the "optional" items to the weight of the Outback and you're now close to 7,000lbs. Using the 80% rule, you are now just at your "safe" towing limit (8900 x 80% = 7,120lbs) and we haven't even added *any* personal items, clothes, food and of course BEER! Again...I have not factored in the Toy(s) you're planning on using the Toy Hauler for.

As an example, my 2004 28RSS has a factory listed weight of 5,270. When I bought my F350 this summer and had the Outback weight tested while adjusting the hitch....it was at 7,300.......2,000lbs over the listed weight. Point is...DONT trust the listed weight. Get it checked!! If you can find a scale (a lot of times along freeways...go on weekend) to get the real weight of the trailer it would be very helpful.
[/quote]


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## ORvagabond (Apr 17, 2009)

AKvagabond said:


> From the pictures, it looks like a Tango 299.
> 
> Length: 30' 6" Width: 8' Weight: 5760 # Int Color: Redwood Stk No: 36716
> 
> Not a really heavy trailer for 30'...but the length is still too much for the wheel base and weight of the Durango. IMHO of course.


This is an interesting discussion for a newbie like me. I just purchased a 2007 (new) 28KRS-30 feet with a 6045 pounds. I am planning to pull it with a Ford Expedition with a 119 wheelbase but as it had an 8900 pound tow rating I thought I was in good shape by adding an Equalizer hitch. No where was mentioned lenght even by the dealer. It appears that it will be toomuch for my rig!
[/quote]

BTW...Congrats on a GREAT Outback!!

You bought a Roo for a reason...what are you hauling in there? What do you think you will add to the Outback in terms of weight?

The 6,045 listed weight isn't really going to be the weight of the Outback as you left the dealers lot. That is the weight the factory lists. Then the "options' are added. All this stuff (like awning, full propane tanks, stove, AC unit, battery, etc..) will *quickly* add another 500-750lbs to the real weight of Outback.

That model also has a 50 gallon water holding tank. I prefer to fill my tank at home so I have MY water...not some unknown water from who knows where. Going with a round number of 8lbs per gallon of water, you have the potential to add another 400lbs in water alone.

Adding the water and the "optional" items to the weight of the Outback and you're now close to 7,000lbs. Using the 80% rule, you are now just at your "safe" towing limit (8900 x 80% = 7,120lbs) and we haven't even added *any* personal items, clothes, food and of course BEER! Again...I have not factored in the Toy(s) you're planning on using the Toy Hauler for.

As an example, my 2004 28RSS has a factory listed weight of 5,270. When I bought my F350 this summer and had the Outback weight tested while adjusting the hitch....it was at 7,300.......2,000lbs over the listed weight. Point is...DONT trust the listed weight. Get it checked!! If you can find a scale (a lot of times along freeways...go on weekend) to get the real weight of the trailer it would be very helpful.
[/quote]
[/quote]

I am not a deisel fan so have been thinking of an F250 Super Crew Cab..it has a 156 inch wheelbase or an F150 Super Crew with a 144 inch. Thoughts?


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

AKvagabond said:


> I am not a deisel fan so have been thinking of an F250 Super Crew Cab..it has a 156 inch wheelbase or an F150 Super Crew with a 144 inch. Thoughts?


I didn't think I was a diesel fan either...now that I have one, you'd have to pry the keys out of my dead fingers to get it away from me. You never know...until you've towed with a diesel, why everyone loves them.

The F-250 or F-350 will be perfect for the job. I'd stay away from any 1/2 ton....regardless of gears, length, tires, etc...

I got a great deal on my F-350 and I liked the towing rating for the Ford. I sold my Suburban to a guy on this forum, so I like Chevy as well. I'm not really into the "which truck is better" argument, so get something in the 3/4 ton ranks...1 ton if you can.

You can never have too much truck.


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

AKvagabond said:


> From the pictures, it looks like a Tango 299.
> 
> Length: 30' 6" Width: 8' Weight: 5760 # Int Color: Redwood Stk No: 36716
> 
> Not a really heavy trailer for 30'...but the length is still too much for the wheel base and weight of the Durango. IMHO of course.


This is an interesting discussion for a newbie like me. I just purchased a 2007 (new) 28KRS-30 feet with a 6045 pounds. I am planning to pull it with a Ford Expedition with a 119 wheelbase but as it had an 8900 pound tow rating I thought I was in good shape by adding an Equalizer hitch. No where was mentioned lenght even by the dealer. It appears that it will be toomuch for my rig!
[/quote]

A bigger vehicle would be better but that's not always an option. I think you might be okay on weights if you watch what you load but the length is going to be a challenge for the Expedition. If you can stay within the weight limits I would recommend spending the extra money on either the Hensley Arrow or Propride hitch. I would have towed a larger trailer with those hitches and my old Expedition if the truck had more power.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

AKvagabond said:


> ...
> 
> I am not a deisel fan so have been thinking of an F250 Super Crew Cab..it has a 156 inch wheelbase or an F150 Super Crew with a 144 inch. Thoughts?


I had the 28RSDS with a 150 Super Crew. Not enough truck IMO. There's more than wheelbase, there's frame, suspension, tires, brakes, and overall mass. The 250 would be a good combo. Don't rule out 350's either. The price difference is usually small and it gives you room to upgrade....


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