# 28krs Needs A Diet



## mik0445 (Jun 5, 2006)

Took my ROO to the scales to get it weighed, and had a huge surprise. With a full tank of water, (approx 350lbs) 4 wheeler (600lbs), and two honda generators (total 160lbs) and tv (4690lbs per a weigh 1 hour earlier on the same scale) I tipped the scale at just over 14000 pounds TV connected to TT. I weighed the front axle of the TV truck, which was just over 3000, then 6490 with both axles of the TV on the scale (3400 on the rear axle). This would put my tongue weight at over 1800lbs, with a hitch set-up that is only rated for 850. This also but my TT at 8400, with the GVWR at only 7600. Luckily my TV has a GVWR of 6900, and has a CVWR of around 14700. My TV wasn't overweight, but just barely, leaving me very little room for cargo. I contacted the dealer, who seemed very concerned and told me to bring the TT in for a reweigh. For a TT whose dry weight is only supposed to be about 5800, it looks like mine (if the math is right) has a dry of about 7300. The only other thing the dealer said was that it might have been my equalizer putting pressure on the axles of the TT and TV making it "appear" heavier. I'm not an engineer, or experienced at weighing TT's, but that sounded like a load of BS







to me. Has anyone else had experiences with this, or if I'm doing something wrong, please let me know.


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

Bravo on you actually taking the time to weigh the TT and TV -- so many don't...

and its an eye opener about 90% of the time ...

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Your dealer is clueless -- the hitch cannot add more pressure thus more weight... the w/d hitch distributes weight -- does not add more -- ie You don't weigh more when you are standing on the bathroom scales and pressing down on your head!!!

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Actually a 50 gallon tank of water will weigh over 450 pounds .... water weighs 4.35 pounds per gallon and our 50 gallon tanks actually hold 53 gallons total...

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The UAW (empty) weight of the trailer is JUST the tires, frame and shell -- then Keystone adds appliances, beds, propane, batteries, hitch etc etc -- my trailer weighed 850 pounds more empty then the sticker said...

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just curious what the dealer thinks he is going to be able to do ??

--

and finally -- I see that you are a believer in the 99% vs 75% rule --

The 99% rule folks say that if the vehicle manufacturer says i can carry 8400 pounds -- then darn it -- 8400 it is...









The transportation industry though utilizes a 75% rule -- take what ever figure is given by the manufacturer and multiply it by 0.75 to get the "safe" number...


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## mik0445 (Jun 5, 2006)

Ghosty said:


> Bravo on you actually taking the time to weigh the TT and TV -- so many don't...
> 
> and its an eye opener about 90% of the time ...
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input on the post. The dry weight, from Keystone's website is 5800. It also labels the carrying capacity of just around 1800. If you have to deduct the appliances, beds, etc from the cc, then I don't know why I have a cargo bay, because I would be lucky to carry a duffelbag of clothes. The reason I had it weighed was to make sure I wasn't too close to GVWR, the last thing that I want to do is load up TT or TV to its max capacity, thats why I went with a TT with a 7600 GVWR, so I still had over 1500lbs to work with if there was the strange occurence that my TT was loaded to the max. The dealer told me that if there was a discrepancy with the weight of the trailer they were going to work it with Keystone to resolve the issue/see what their brains (or gilligans







) have to say about this.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

I have wondered what the reality of the 'Roos would be. With the garage in front, the changes in tounge loading are bound to be extreme. Seems like you are awfully heavy dry though. Curious...









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

Wow! Please keep us updated on this situation

Don


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Water weighs 8.34 pounds per gallon.

Propane weighs 4.25 pounds per gallon.

Gasoline weighs roughly 6 pounds per gallon depending on additives.

How about unloading the trailer then weighing it by itself just to see where you start?


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

I can understand the tongue weight......Add a quad to the front room.

The Keystone website lists out 28RSDS as 5980 lbs. Our sticker says 6480 lbs. I have not put it on the scale, but I'll bet yout it weighs 7000 lbs.

Just had to add!

Happy Outbacking!

Tim


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

mik0445,

Andy helped you with some weights. Here is the last one. ATV's and Snowmobiles are like Travel Trailers as in the "weight" is always dry. No battery, no oil, no gear lube, etc. If you have one of the bigger ATV's like 600 to 800 cc class that baby will go 700 lbs easy. My 520 lb snowmobile is 620 lbs with gas in it.


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## mik0445 (Jun 5, 2006)

NJMikeC said:


> mik0445,
> 
> Andy helped you with some weights. Here is the last one. ATV's and Snowmobiles are like Travel Trailers as in the "weight" is always dry. No battery, no oil, no gear lube, etc. If you have one of the bigger ATV's like 600 to 800 cc class that baby will go 700 lbs easy. My 520 lb snowmobile is 620 lbs with gas in it.
> [snapback]120685[/snapback]​


My wheeler is only a 400, and the dry weight is about 550, so I figured gas, oil, etc would put it just over 600. Just an update, I've got the trailer emptied and I am taking it back to the scales today, then on to the dealer for their re-weigh.


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## CJ999 (Aug 11, 2005)

I haven't paid much attention to these things since I got my set up dialed in, but is there a ball hitch even rated for 1800 pounds? What about truck suspensions? Has Outback made a trailer that can't really be towed safely when it is loaded?


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

OK, now you've got me worried...I called a local weigh station and if I can get my husband to hitch 'er up, I'd like to get over there and check ours out. Yikes! I can't wait to hear what yours weighs when unloaded.

Dawn


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Whoa...that is one HEAVY Roo.


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## mik0445 (Jun 5, 2006)

CJ999 said:


> I haven't paid much attention to these things since I got my set up dialed in, but is there a ball hitch even rated for 1800 pounds? What about truck suspensions? Has Outback made a trailer that can't really be towed safely when it is loaded?
> [snapback]121089[/snapback]​


I don't know if the ball is rated to 1800, I know the hitch and spring bars are not. That is one thing the dealer said that he will do is replace the hitch and bars if needed. As far as the truck goes, with the wd spreading the weight between the two axles, I was still under my max axle rating, but it was close enough that I wouldn't have much room for anything else in the truck without getting dangerously close to my max. Anyhoo, I dropped the trailer at the dealer today, and they are going to get me a certified weight tomorrow of only the trailer, and they have the facilities to give me an actual breakdown on each section of the trailer...hopefully I'll find out that I just weighed everything wrong somehow!


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

You make a very good point. It is worth the effort to take your TV & TT empty to the scales and take it again loaded. I think most people will be surprised how much weight can be added without even knowing it.

Thor


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## Travelers (Apr 6, 2006)

Highlander96 said:


> I can understand the tongue weight......Add a quad to the front room.
> 
> The Keystone website lists out 28RSDS as 5980 lbs.Â Our sticker says 6480 lbs.Â I have not put it on the scale, but I'll bet yout it weighs 7000 lbs.Â
> 
> ...


The "sticker" in the overhead kitchen cab says our 2006 RSDS weighs 5980 lbs. Where did you get your "sticker" weight of 6480 from? On the scale it weighs 6580 - includes propane, 2 batteries, week-end camp gear and the Reese hitch (no water except in water heater).


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## mik0445 (Jun 5, 2006)

Just an update...
Got a call from the dealer today, who said my weight is now good. With full freshwater, propane and bottles, it weighed in at 6700. Once I did the math, this was about right on. It did trouble me, though that Keystone only gives you 900 pounds for cargo when you have a full tank, and as you know, this is intended to haul a wheeler or bikes. I called Keystone to talk to their rep, to find out their intended use of the TT, i.e. towing it empty of water, putting the propane tanks in the TV, what we were supposed to do in order to haul our wheeler. He gave me a confused expression, and asked me if my wheeler weighed over 1500lbs, which tossed the confusion into my court. He then told me that the GVWR for the TT only counts what is on the axles, not the part that is carried by the hitch, that goes against the TV. He also told me that the TT is balanced to carry the majority of the weight of what is in the cargo bay on the axles, to keep the tongue weight down. I don't know how much I believe that part, but he called the tech-eys while I was on the line, and told me that my tongue weight should never be over 1000, even with a wheeler installed. If this was just my dealer, I would take this as a 'smoke enema' but coming from the factory, I'm a little doubtful, but more at ease. I guess after I pick up my TT, I will take it to the scales myself, in hopes that the guy at the scales before misread a number.


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

I checked with my husband and he told me that since he and another person are able to pick up the rear end of our quad (the heaviest end) that it only weighs in around 400 pounds. It sounds to me like this should be just fine to haul. We plan to empty our tanks before we travel anyway and just fill up at the CG when we arrive.

Great information, thanks for keeping us informed sunny 
Dawn


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

This is akin to the kind of tradeoffs small(er) aircraft pilots make all the time. An aircraft may have an advertised range of 'X' miles (on full tanks), and a payload capacity of 'Y' pounds, but the plane will not get off the ground if you max out both. If you want to carry maximum payload, it is at the expense of most of your fuel (i.e.: Range). If you want maximum range, you better not have more than two people - and a minimal amount of luggage - in that six seater, because most of the payload will be eaten up by fuel.

It seems kind of deceiving, but does offer a wider range of utility. I see the situation with the 'Roo's as being similar. I'm sure once you get the 'feel' for it, you will not even give it a second thought.









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## HTQM (May 31, 2006)

Been watching this thread close to see what the dealer came up with, it's a plus having the factory input. I don't "plan" on filling the fresh water tank for travel but a camp load is probably close to the same.

My concern was loading a Road King and heading out. The TT and TV handled really well on our trip to Maryland with a camp load (minus the little stuff we forgot) and the scooter.

I'll be very interested in your findings. I'll start doing some digging and weighing on mine as well. We don't plan on having the RK in there very often but that is the reason for our selection of the Roo. Best of luck with your research.

Dave


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

skippershe said:


> I checked with my husband and he told me that since he and another person are able to pick up the rear end of our quad (the heaviest end) that it only weighs in around 400 pounds. It sounds to me like this should be just fine to haul. We plan to empty our tanks before we travel anyway and just fill up at the CG when we arrive.
> 
> Great information, thanks for keeping us informed sunny
> Dawn
> [snapback]121679[/snapback]​


Gotta love the human scale.

Hope you are enjoying Costa Mesa. I know that I did!

Happy Outbacking!

Tim


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## mik0445 (Jun 5, 2006)

PDX_Doug said:


> This is akin to the kind of tradeoffs small(er) aircraft pilots make all the time. An aircraft may have an advertised range of 'X' miles (on full tanks), and a payload capacity of 'Y' pounds, but the plane will not get off the ground if you max out both. If you want to carry maximum payload, it is at the expense of most of your fuel (i.e.: Range). If you want maximum range, you better not have more than two people - and a minimal amount of luggage - in that six seater, because most of the payload will be eaten up by fuel.
> 
> It seems kind of deceiving, but does offer a wider range of utility. I see the situation with the 'Roo's as being similar. I'm sure once you get the 'feel' for it, you will not even give it a second thought.
> 
> ...


I believe our freshwater tank is behind the axles. By keeping these full, it takes away from GVWR, but I think it may help out balancing some of the weight from the cargo area. Driving mine home from the dealer today with a full water tank and nothing up front, the tongue felt pretty light...maybe thats just because I'm use to the tongue being heavy. Btw if anyone is going to be in or around Anchorage, I would deeply recommend going to Simmons RV for any work you need done. These guys are pretty booked up, but they will bend over backwards for anything you need!


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

What were the actual weights that the dealer came up with??


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## mik0445 (Jun 5, 2006)

CamperAndy said:


> What were the actual weights that the dealer came up with??
> [snapback]121939[/snapback]​


6700lb with a full freshwater tank, propane, and the hitch inside.


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## Wade (Oct 11, 2006)

Seems to me that the issue here is with the TV weight. No way a diesel quad cab is 4690 lbs. No way. Perhaps I'd believe 6490...


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

XGeezer said:


> Seems to me that the issue here is with the TV weight. No way a diesel quad cab is 4690 lbs. No way. Perhaps I'd believe 6490...


x2 but I'm thinking it's more around 7500lbs +, I don't remember where I read it but my 02 2500 Cummins Ram is supposed to weigh around 8800lbs.

I'd go back to the scales and see.

Bill.


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## mik0445 (Jun 5, 2006)

XGeezer said:


> Seems to me that the issue here is with the TV weight. No way a diesel quad cab is 4690 lbs. No way. Perhaps I'd believe 6490...


This post was when I had a 1500 Quad w/hemi. It did weigh 4690...checked it myself.


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## JRO (Oct 12, 2006)

I'm confused...
I'm considering the purshase of a 2007 Outback 28KRS and reading this topic... I'm not sure if I've learned anything concrete yet. Are there critical weight/balance issues with this model or not?

Hasn't the factory figured out this weight/balance issue from all perspectives?
An "everything full" perspective... Full water, LP, and allowances for cookware , bedding, food, bath supplies and clothes and from there determine how much weight can be safely added to the cargo area?
And from an everything empty perspective how much weight can be safely added to the cargo area?

You'd think they'd be able to provide weight/balance graphs owners can follow... just like they do with airplanes.

Off topic... Is there any reasons why I would want to avoid buying the 28KRS? Is the sleeping slide roomy enough? How is it in cold weather?

Cheers,
JRO


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## NobleEagle (Jul 8, 2006)

JRO said:


> I'm confused...
> I'm considering the purshase of a 2007 Outback 28KRS and reading this topic... I'm not sure if I've learned anything concrete yet. Are there critical weight/balance issues with this model or not?
> 
> Hasn't the factory figured out this weight/balance issue from all perspectives?
> ...


As an owner of a 28KRS I have to give my input here. 
Is the sleeping slide roomy enough? As far as the sleeping slide goes, my DW and I are very comfy in it (she is smaller than I am and I wiegh in at 235lbs). We DID however put a memory foam matress ontop of the factory matress which made a night and day difference. As far as the heat that the furnace puts out, I turned it on the other day just to see if it worked. After the ductwork burned off all impurities (yes I unplugged the smoke detector for an hour or so) I was amazed to notice the heat it throws. What I can say is DO NOT step on the metal floor vents barefoot if the heater has been running for a bit or else you WILL have a neat looking brand on the bottom of your feet. How is it in cold weather? We are in Florida so I don't expect to get a while bunch of use from the heater but it's good to know it's there.
All-in-all I don't see any problem with this model and if we could change anything, it would be to find more time to use this awesome trailer more often. So to answer your question: Is there any reasons why I would want to avoid buying the 28KRS? I can't think of any unless you are not comfortable driving with 45-50 feet (at least) of vehicle.


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## aplvlykat (Jan 25, 2004)

Ok, this topic has confused me. What is the 28krs dry weight rating? What is the max weight? Just to throw another factor into the mix has anyone looked under the 28krs at the axle rating on the tag. What are the axles rated for? The reason I ask is because on my 25rss they are rated lighter than the max TT weight of 6000 listed by keystone. It seems to me that the axles would be the factor that would determines how much you can load and haul safely but I have been known to be wrong before. Kirk


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

aplvlykat said:


> The reason I ask is because on my 25rss they are rated lighter than the max TT weight of 6000 listed by keystone.


Kirk,

I'm guessing that keystone is factoring the portion of the load carried by the tongue into that equation. Does not leave a lot of safety cushion, but that might explain the discrepancy.









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## aplvlykat (Jan 25, 2004)

Don't mean to hijack this thread but I just rechecked my rating and they are 2750 lbs, less the tire and rims. So 2750 times 2 equals 5500 lbs, less( aprox) 60 lbs times 4 equals 240 lbs, 5500 minus 240 equals 5260 total carrying capacity of the axles. This still bothers me and has since I noticed it when I installed the shocks. The good news is that the axles can be upgraded by changing out the springs. I just haven't had time to look into it yet. Now back to the thread on 28krs. Is the 28krs axle weight under sized as well? kirk


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## snsgraham (May 18, 2004)

This thread reminds me of my Desert Fox.
It was supposed to weigh in at about 7,200 pounds. After getting it ready to go camping with all of the "stuff" it weighed in at a porky 9,600 pounds without water of any color and no toys in the back.

The Fox still has room to grow with a GVWR of 13,500 pounds though...
Scott


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