# Upgrading To Fifth Wheel. 2009 Dodge Ram 1500 Crew.



## OutbackBrat

So we have been looking at trading in our 26 rs for a fiver.
Our tv is a 2009 Dodge Ram 1500 Crew 4x4  5.7 hemi with 3.92 rear

tires engine 
P275/60R20 5.7L V8 (EZH) A5 545RFE (DGQ)

rear gvrw payload total front rear front rear hd cooling 
3.92 6,800 1,380 5,393 3,095 2,298 3,900 3,900 15,500

max trailer
9,900
The above are the numbers for a 2010 truck that is exactly the same as my 2009.

So it looks like I can pull a 9900 pound trailer less my family about 650 pounds?

the payload number! Would that equal the hitch weight? and if so it would have to stay under 1380.... and how far under 1380?

What else should I be thinking of?

thx as always!


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## duggy

There are more experienced members than me in this field who will chime in, but I believe payload includes everything loaded in and on the truck. From that 1380 lbs, you would have to subtract your family of 650 lbs, which would leave you with 730 lbs of hitch weight. And that's assuming you don't carry any other camping gear in the truck. I think you would be hard pressed to find any 5th wheels with a pin weight of 700 lbs.

Doug


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## outbackmac

Stay under rear tire and axle ratings


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## luverofpeanuts

duggy said:


> I think you would be hard pressed to find any 5th wheels with a pin weight of 700 lbs.
> 
> Doug


1/2 ton crew cabs are barely capable of hauling some of the medium to large travel trailers. I think you can rule out almost all but the lightest 5th wheel trailers. Next time you're out and a bout, survey how many 5th wheel trailers are being pulled by 1/2 ton pickups. When we are on the road camping, I rarely see anything but 1 ton or 3/4 ton's hauling 5th wheels. Even 3/4 ton have to be careful of getting too heavy of rig.

Each of the two 2011 Outback 5th wheel models have over 1200 pounds in dry hitch weight. They are about 30 feet long which average length at best.. perhaps a tad on the short side for a 5th wheel.

It's fun to think of upgrading, but in this case, I don't see anyway around upgrading the tow vehicle to a 3/4 ton at least, I'd prefer a 1 ton (F350) myself.


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## Escalade Steve

I have to agree, when I bought my 32ft 5th wheel I had a 2004 F-150. Since I had a short bed, I had to purchase an articulating hitch which cost more than $2,000. It seemed like a far stretch to accomidate a 5th wheel and I was over on the hitch weight too.

In the end I decided it just wasn't going to be safe, so I sold my truck and bought an F-350 dually.

You can probably pull a 5th wheel with your truck, but it's only going to be the smallest and lightest.


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## ejr11

Keystone advertises the 282FE as "1/2 ton towable".

282FE


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## Nathan

Don't forget to also count the 100-150 lb 5th wheel hitch. I see that as leaving you with ~550 lb pin weight.


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## Mrwilkal

ejr11 said:


> Keystone advertises the 282FE as "1/2 ton towable".
> 
> 282FE


Just because they say you can do it doesn't mean you should. We have the 285fl. Advertised as a super lite. It isn't. We pull with a 3/4 ton Dodge and we would be more comfortable with a 1 ton. Mind you ours has the old 3.55 rear end in it, but we still meet the weight limits for our truck.

Another thing you should consider (which most people don't) is not weather you can tow it, but can you stop it? 11 mile 6% downgrade? Can you still stop that unit without burning up your brakes? Without putting your family or anyone else on the road in danger?

We used to have a Prowler. A 26 footer that weighed 7,000 lbs soaking wet and stuffed to the brim. We pulled that with a Ford 1/2 ton. One time, then traded it for a 3/4 ton Dodge. I would never tow a 5th wheel with a half ton again. Just speaking from experience.


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## Nathan

ejr11 said:


> Keystone advertises the 282FE as "1/2 ton towable".
> 
> 282FE


Sure, get a stripped down 1/2 ton truck (regular cab) with the max payload option and then don't carry anything in the truck or trailer and I'm sure it is very possible....









Edit: 
Ok, so a basic 4x2 Reg cab F150 with max tow option has a 3000 lb payload capacity. (It also has a 11,300 tow rating) 
That could tow a 5'er.

Dodge seems to be short on payload even with their work truck. It appears 1900 lb max payload from their website, but it's a little tough to tell...


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## Collinsfam_WY

Nathan said:


> Keystone advertises the 282FE as "1/2 ton towable".
> 
> 282FE


Sure, get a stripped down 1/2 ton truck (regular cab) with the max payload option and then don't carry anything in the truck or trailer and I'm sure it is very possible....








[/quote]

Bah Nathan. Spoilsport. Just because you are an engineer for a Detroit automaker and intimately know details of vehicle performance doesn't mean that you know....oh wait. Yeah. It does.









-CC


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## OutbackBrat

Nathan said:


> Don't forget to also count the 100-150 lb 5th wheel hitch. I see that as leaving you with ~550 lb pin weight.


Your Serious. Payload in the box is effected by how many are in the cab? So If I put six 225 pound guys in the crew that means we are over limit and I should not drive anywhere? that cant be correct!????????????


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## luverofpeanuts

OutbackBrat said:


> Don't forget to also count the 100-150 lb 5th wheel hitch. I see that as leaving you with ~550 lb pin weight.


Your Serious. Payload in the box is effected by how many are in the cab? So If I put six 225 pound guys in the crew that means we are over limit and I should not drive anywhere? that cant be correct!????????????
[/quote]

That is absolutely correct. Go check out your current vehicle. On the driver side, in the door jamb or on the door...when you open it... there hopefully is a yellow sticker that will list the amount of people and cargo you can put in the truck as it left the factory (not including any extra options the dealer or owner put on). The hitch weight is part of this...as well as any people and cargo.

If it doesn't have the yellow sticker....find the sticker that lists the GVWR... and then either lookup the weight... or better yet, weigh it and you'll find out what the weight is... the difference is your cargo capacity.


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## duggy

Even a box liner and running boards shave room off the payload capacity.


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## OutbackBrat

duggy said:


> Even a box liner and running boards shave room off the payload capacity.


So then pretty much any standard half ton crew cab out there is basically a useless vehicle with a trunk that lets the rain in.... GREAT! I mean ford and gmc are pretty much just as useless. Wow wish I knew then what I know now!


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## luverofpeanuts

OutbackBrat said:


> So then pretty much any standard half ton crew cab out there is basically a useless vehicle with a trunk that lets the rain in.... GREAT! I mean ford and gmc are pretty much just as useless. Wow wish I knew then what I know now!


Well...at least you didn't buy the fiver first!

The 1/2 ton crews are still great vehicles within their limits. Much better than a station wagon! ;-) When I was looking to replace my Expedition, I narrowed things down to a Toyota Crew Max and Ford F150 Super Crew. Then after doing the math, i realized my 10+ year old Expedition had more payload capacity than any of them (by over 200 pounds at least). That was sobering. Doesn't mean I don't think any of them would still tow/haul better than my Expedition did... just that why would I upgrade to something I know I'd be over the limits on.

And remember, we are talking specs here and while they can't be changed, there are those than beef up their 1/2 ton with air bags, overload springs/devices and seem to be happy towing very close to, or even over their limits. I'm not advocating that, I'm just saying there are plenty of opinions to go around.

Sorry to bum you out.


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## forceten

I have a 5th wheeler roo with a dodge 2500 v10. I'm comfortable with it because of the light weight of the outback. But i couldn't imagine going down in vehicle size at all.If anything I could only go up to a 1 ton.


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## Carey

I see a ton of 1/2 tons rowing 5ers. The majority tow 5ers like a Cougar or North Trail.

The most popular 1/2 ton people use is the F150, next is Tundra. I have prolly seen 10 Tundras towing 32-34 foot toyhaulers this summer. Ive prolly seen 30-40 F150's towing small 5ers this summer. Ive yet to see one dragging its tail from excess weight. Ive also yet to see a 1/2 ton towing a 5er in a wreck. This summer I seen 3, 3/4 or 1 tons flipped towing mid to high profile 34-35 foot 5ers.

Reason... 1/2 tons only do about 55 while towing. 3/4 tons will push 70 or more.

Both vehicles are equally overweight. 3/4 tons are just as incapable of towing a 13000lb 5er as a 1/2 ton is towing a 9000lb 5er. EXCEPT the 3.4 ton will do 70, the 1/2 ton does 55mph.

From what I see a 1/2 ton is safer because the driver respects his combination much more than a fat headed 3/4 ton dude.

If you want a small, say 28 foot 5er you will be just fine. Just know you arent going to burn up the highways, nor are you gonna crash. Because you respect what you are towing.

Ive taken some pics of 1/2 tons towing 5ers this summer. I'll have to see if I can find them.

Yes Brat your right, there are some 1/2 ton towable 5ers. Get you some airbags or overloads. Not sure what is offered for the new rear coil sprung 09 dodge. But get what is available. Get you a Curt Q5 slider hitch, and youll be just fine.

When towing a 5er just forget your payload numbers. The vast majority dont pay any attention. I say dont worry and be happy. I have been over my payload way more than under. Even the DOT doesnt care. All you need to worry about is staying under your axle ratings.

Dont come on here asking for everyones blessing. For some reason forums bring out purests and example setters. The vast majority buys what they like and goes and has fun without worry.

If you want a 5er, cool. Lets talk about how we can make your truck safe to tow it and finding one of the size yod like.

So, what model do you like Mr. Brat?

Carey


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## Carey

Hey where do you guys go Camping Brat? If you just stay on the hwy 2 corridor or even up 43 towards Grand Prairie youd be fine and of course anything east of Red Deer is all good. But that heck of a spine west of Red Deer will put the hurts on ya! But heck it puts the hurt on everything!

Carey


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## duggy

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Dont come on here asking for everyones blessing. For some reason forums bring out purests and example setters. The vast majority buys what they like and goes and has fun without worry.
> 
> If you want a 5er, cool. Lets talk about how we can make your truck safe to tow it and finding one of the size yod like.
> 
> Carey


You're right on that note Carey.

On my original reply, I was answering the question of whether the payload rating equaled the hitch weight. That said, it comes down to what you're comfortable with, and if the combination can be safely driven down the road. If you understand the limitations, and work within them, it will be OK. At the same time, if Camping Brat thought he could plunk down a fiver with 1380 lb pin weight, I think he would have been surprised and disappointed at the result.

Doug

PS I watched a 1/2 ton with a big 5th wheel pull into Bon Echo Park last fall, and he was dragging his back bumper.


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## Nathan

I'll bet over half of the 3/4 tons pulling 5'ers are way overloaded. The one advantage there is that the only difference is often the suspension so that can be fixed rather easily.

Payload capacity is always an issue, and is more so with 1/2 ton trucks pulling trailers. I was a little suprised at just how low the Dodge ratings were on their site (Still not sure that you can't get a max tow option like Ford offers...). Regardless, this is one of the reasons that I suggest that the bigger bumper pulls are not 1/2 ton towable. My 28RSDS had my F150 at or over payload and we had a small family at the time with a 1 and a 4 year old...









Of course if you want to have fun, read the placard on a car. Some of them are overloaded if you just have heavy adults in all seating positions....


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## OutbackBrat

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Hey where do you guys go Camping Brat? If you just stay on the hwy 2 corridor or even up 43 towards Grand Prairie youd be fine and of course anything east of Red Deer is all good. But that heck of a spine west of Red Deer will put the hurts on ya! But heck it puts the hurt on everything!
> 
> Carey


Well We mainly stay around the highway 2 corridor. Although we went out past nordegg to the west this summer. As well we did a lopp south through rogers pass to nakusp and kelowna and back through golden and revelstoke. So we do like to push the mountains......

I like getting the Education here. Always lean a lot.

The two I was looking at..... Unrealistically were the:

2011 Keystone 27SAB
NEW 2011 COUGAR X-LITE 27SAB 1/2 TON 5TH WHEEL W/ BUNKS
Type: Fifth wheel	Slide outs: 1	Water capacity (gallons): 41-50
Length (feet): 29	Sleeping capacity: 8	Air conditioners: 1
Fuel type: --	Awnings: 1	Leveling jacks included?: Yes
Dry weight (pounds): 6830 
27SAB Specifications
Hitch Weight
1090
Length (open)
29 10

And the

2010 Coachmen Chaparral 269BHS
2010 Coachmen Chaparral Lite 269BHS New Bunk 5th Wheel

Base Weight 6980
Carrying 2300
hitch 1250

Those numbers are BS for the 269bhs though. Found these on another site.
base 7931
carry 3269
hitch 1680.

Was planning to run air bags if I bought a 5er!


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## OutbackBrat

bump


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## Chuggs

Back in July...we stayed at Ft. Wilderness Campground, Orlando, FL. The couple next to us had a 1/2 ton, with a X-Lite Cougar. They made it down to Florida from Ontario Canada...so, it CAN be done...as least staying along the relatively level east coast. I don't know how it would do in big mountain country.


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## deanintemp

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Both vehicles are equally overweight. 3/4 tons are just as incapable of towing a 13000lb 5er as a 1/2 ton is towing a 9000lb 5er. EXCEPT the 3.4 ton will do 70, the 1/2 ton does 55mph.
> 
> From what I see a 1/2 ton is safer because the driver respects his combination much more than a fat headed 3/4 ton dude.
> 
> Carey


Sounds like you hit the nail on the head. I pull my 26RS with a 1500 Suburban and am VERY comfortable because I respect the rig. Another analogy are the 4X4 vehicles (as i am one of them) zooming down the snowy highways...typically you catch up with them as they will be the one spun out on the side of the road!

I say put a sharp spike mounted on every steering wheel coming to a point right at the drivers neck and see how safe the highways become...RESPECT!


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## Carey

I think youd be perfectly fine with that Cougar x lite. Your 26rs is like 6500 all loaded I bet. Youd be adding 1000lbs of pull weight with the cougar, which is no biggie and the actual hitch weight would be similiar between the two. If you have 1000lbs of tongue weight with the 26rs, and have say 13-1400lbs with the cougar, the weight on the rear tires will be very similiar with either. The 5er hitch will allow 10-15% of the hitch weight to go to the front wheels. So youll have around 13-1400 on the rear tires including the hitch. Right now you have around 1000 on the rear tires. So youd be adding say 400lbs. That can easilly be made up with some air bags.

The 5er will ride so much better than the bumper pull, that the 400lb weight difference wont be felt, especially with air bags. That is the size that you would be safe with. I know I see people pulling 30-32 footer with 1/2 tons often. In the last few years they have some small mid pro 5ers that are really safe to tow with a 1/2 ton, since new 1/2 ton trucks are much more of a real truck than of those from yesteryear.

I dont think you could go wrong with that size cougar Brat. If thats what you want, get the hitch put in and be sure and test tow this setup before signing on the bottom line for the rig.

Im pretty sure the fluid tanks are mounted right above the 5er axles, so fluid weight shouldnt be much of a concern. You might ask your salesman where the fluid tanks are located. This would allow me to better estimate the actual pin weight of this model.

Im guessing you have the 390hp hemi in your truck right? If so it can tow 7500lbs up the roads towards Kelowna with no more of a problem than you have now. The wind resistance will actually be better with a 12 foot high 5er than a 9 foot high bumper pull hanging 5 feet behind the tailgate. You will have a better aerodynamic resistance with a truck and a 27 foot 5er than you do with a truck and 27 foot bumper pull. The height wont hurt you anymore than what you have now.

Do some more investigating if your interested and come back and tell us what you find.

Good Luck!
Carey


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## Carey

deanintemp said:


> Both vehicles are equally overweight. 3/4 tons are just as incapable of towing a 13000lb 5er as a 1/2 ton is towing a 9000lb 5er. EXCEPT the 3.4 ton will do 70, the 1/2 ton does 55mph.
> 
> From what I see a 1/2 ton is safer because the driver respects his combination much more than a fat headed 3/4 ton dude.
> 
> Carey


Sounds like you hit the nail on the head. I pull my 26RS with a 1500 Suburban and am VERY comfortable because I respect the rig. Another analogy are the 4X4 vehicles (as i am one of them) zooming down the snowy highways...typically you catch up with them as they will be the one spun out on the side of the road!

I say put a sharp spike mounted on every steering wheel coming to a point right at the drivers neck and see how safe the highways become...RESPECT!
[/quote]

lol yep that would sure change things. Good one!

Carey


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## OutbackBrat

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> I think youd be perfectly fine with that Cougar x lite. Your 26rs is like 6500 all loaded I bet. Youd be adding 1000lbs of pull weight with the cougar, which is no biggie and the actual hitch weight would be similiar between the two. If you have 1000lbs of tongue weight with the 26rs, and have say 13-1400lbs with the cougar, the weight on the rear tires will be very similiar with either. The 5er hitch will allow 10-15% of the hitch weight to go to the front wheels. So youll have around 13-1400 on the rear tires including the hitch. Right now you have around 1000 on the rear tires. So youd be adding say 400lbs. That can easilly be made up with some air bags.
> 
> The 5er will ride so much better than the bumper pull, that the 400lb weight difference wont be felt, especially with air bags. That is the size that you would be safe with. I know I see people pulling 30-32 footer with 1/2 tons often. In the last few years they have some small mid pro 5ers that are really safe to tow with a 1/2 ton, since new 1/2 ton trucks are much more of a real truck than of those from yesteryear.
> 
> I dont think you could go wrong with that size cougar Brat. If thats what you want, get the hitch put in and be sure and test tow this setup before signing on the bottom line for the rig.
> 
> Im pretty sure the fluid tanks are mounted right above the 5er axles, so fluid weight shouldnt be much of a concern. You might ask your salesman where the fluid tanks are located. This would allow me to better estimate the actual pin weight of this model.
> 
> Im guessing you have the 390hp hemi in your truck right? If so it can tow 7500lbs up the roads towards Kelowna with no more of a problem than you have now. The wind resistance will actually be better with a 12 foot high 5er than a 9 foot high bumper pull hanging 5 feet behind the tailgate. You will have a better aerodynamic resistance with a truck and a 27 foot 5er than you do with a truck and 27 foot bumper pull. The height wont hurt you anymore than what you have now.
> 
> Do some more investigating if your interested and come back and tell us what you find.
> 
> Good Luck!
> Carey


The only issue with the x-lite is the lack of 3 bunks. Other than that it would be the perfect trailer. 
I just realized what we need lol.

We need a 28rsds with the rear slide in a fifth wheel. That way we get our 4 bunks and have a shorter fiver and still have the rear slide that we love.

To bad no one makes it!!!


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## Tangooutback

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> The wind resistance will actually be better with a 12 foot high 5er than a 9 foot high bumper pull hanging 5 feet behind the tailgate. You will have a better aerodynamic resistance with a truck and a 27 foot 5er than you do with a truck and 27 foot bumper pull. The height wont hurt you anymore than what you have now.
> 
> Carey


I am not sure I understand how that is possible. The 5er is 3' higher and therefore yields more frontal surface, which is directly proportional to wind resistance.

Unless there is some sort of aerodynamic shield mounted on top of the tow vehicle cab, which supposedly negates wind resistance effect of the frontal area below the roof line of the tow vehicle, I do not not see how it could have better aerodynamic resistance than a 9' tall bumper pull trailer.

Have you towed both 5er and TT of same weight and use fuel mileage to verify your theory? if your theory is true, you would get better fuel mileage towing 5er than TT, right?

If your theory is true, my next camper purchase is going to be a 5er.


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## rsm7

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> The wind resistance will actually be better with a 12 foot high 5er than a 9 foot high bumper pull hanging 5 feet behind the tailgate. You will have a better aerodynamic resistance with a truck and a 27 foot 5er than you do with a truck and 27 foot bumper pull. The height wont hurt you anymore than what you have now.
> 
> Do some more investigating if your interested and come back and tell us what you find.
> 
> Good Luck!
> Carey


I've been wondering about that wind resistance thing myself. I keep reading about guys with the same truck I have who are getting MPG's in the 11's pulling 10-12k 5'ers and I'm getting 9's pulling a smaller TT.


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## rock hill

When we were in New England for vacation this summer, I could not count how many f150 double cabs, and other half tons were towing fifth wheels, most of them had Quebec plates too, not sure if that means anything, but needless to say I there were lots on the road and at the campground.


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## Nathan

rsm7 said:


> The wind resistance will actually be better with a 12 foot high 5er than a 9 foot high bumper pull hanging 5 feet behind the tailgate. You will have a better aerodynamic resistance with a truck and a 27 foot 5er than you do with a truck and 27 foot bumper pull. The height wont hurt you anymore than what you have now.
> 
> Do some more investigating if your interested and come back and tell us what you find.
> 
> Good Luck!
> Carey


I've been wondering about that wind resistance thing myself. I keep reading about guys with the same truck I have who are getting MPG's in the 11's pulling 10-12k 5'ers and I'm getting 9's pulling a smaller TT.
[/quote]

Moving from the 28RSDS Outback to a full profile 5'er resulted in a 1mpg drop in fuel economy for me. With the OB I had a tonneau cover on the truck that was rolled up for 5th wheel use. I could see a midpro 5'er having similar fuel economy to a bumper pull.


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## Duanesz

rsm7 said:


> The wind resistance will actually be better with a 12 foot high 5er than a 9 foot high bumper pull hanging 5 feet behind the tailgate. You will have a better aerodynamic resistance with a truck and a 27 foot 5er than you do with a truck and 27 foot bumper pull. The height wont hurt you anymore than what you have now.
> 
> Do some more investigating if your interested and come back and tell us what you find.
> 
> Good Luck!
> Carey


I've been wondering about that wind resistance thing myself. I keep reading about guys with the same truck I have who are getting MPG's in the 11's pulling 10-12k 5'ers and I'm getting 9's pulling a smaller TT.
[/quote]

Remember the MPG thing for some reason guys like to lie about what they get or they broadcast there best ever tank as what they get all the time.


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## OutbackBrat

Duanesz said:


> The wind resistance will actually be better with a 12 foot high 5er than a 9 foot high bumper pull hanging 5 feet behind the tailgate. You will have a better aerodynamic resistance with a truck and a 27 foot 5er than you do with a truck and 27 foot bumper pull. The height wont hurt you anymore than what you have now.
> 
> Do some more investigating if your interested and come back and tell us what you find.
> 
> Good Luck!
> Carey


I've been wondering about that wind resistance thing myself. I keep reading about guys with the same truck I have who are getting MPG's in the 11's pulling 10-12k 5'ers and I'm getting 9's pulling a smaller TT.
[/quote]

Remember the MPG thing for some reason guys like to lie about what they get or they broadcast there best ever tank as what they get all the time.








[/quote]

Im sure Carey will jump in and explain why mileage is better on a fiver than a tt! But I believe it is because of the lack of a gap between the fiver and the truck. It moves through the air as more or less one vehicle. Were my tt has a big gap between the truck and the trailer. But again there will be better answers!


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## Carey

Ive pulled a ton of mid pro 5ers with curved aerodynamic front caps and I get same mpg as when Im pulling a same size bumper pull. Yeah Outback Brat the gap between the truck cab and bumper pull can be 10-12 feet. The frontal area is actually larger on a bumper pull than a aero capped mid pro 5er if the gap between the truck and 5er is less than say 24 inches. That gap becomes a dead spot and cant really be included on these style 5ers. Your right it becomes more of a combined unit with these 5ers.

I agree with Nathan a full pro 5er will cost ya at least 1 mpg. There front caps arent the aero style either and always weigh over 10000lbs.

Ive said before the ultimate rv to tow long distance is a modern mid pro 5er. Nothing can beat em. One bang out 5-600 miles pretty easy compared to the same size bumper pull that will leave ya feeling a bit whipped after 5-600 miles.


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## Tangooutback

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Ive pulled a ton of mid pro 5ers with curved aerodynamic front caps and I get same mpg as when Im pulling a same size bumper pull. Yeah Outback Brat the gap between the truck cab and bumper pull can be 10-12 feet. The frontal area is actually larger on a bumper pull than a aero capped mid pro 5er if the gap between the truck and 5er is less than say 24 inches. That gap becomes a dead spot and cant really be included on these style 5ers. Your right it becomes more of a combined unit with these 5ers.
> 
> I agree with Nathan a full pro 5er will cost ya at least 1 mpg. There front caps arent the aero style either and always weigh over 10000lbs.
> 
> Ive said before the ultimate rv to tow long distance is a modern mid pro 5er. Nothing can beat em. One bang out 5-600 miles pretty easy compared to the same size bumper pull that will leave ya feeling a bit whipped after 5-600 miles.


It is easier and more fuel efficient ONLY if you have an aerodynamic cap on top of the cab? You are talking about those huge trucks built to tow, not the 3/4 tons like the F250 class, are you? I have not yet seen a 3/4 ton truck with an aerodynamic cap.


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## Nathan

Tangooutback said:


> Ive pulled a ton of mid pro 5ers with curved aerodynamic front caps and I get same mpg as when Im pulling a same size bumper pull. Yeah Outback Brat the gap between the truck cab and bumper pull can be 10-12 feet. The frontal area is actually larger on a bumper pull than a aero capped mid pro 5er if the gap between the truck and 5er is less than say 24 inches. That gap becomes a dead spot and cant really be included on these style 5ers. Your right it becomes more of a combined unit with these 5ers.
> 
> I agree with Nathan a full pro 5er will cost ya at least 1 mpg. There front caps arent the aero style either and always weigh over 10000lbs.
> 
> Ive said before the ultimate rv to tow long distance is a modern mid pro 5er. Nothing can beat em. One bang out 5-600 miles pretty easy compared to the same size bumper pull that will leave ya feeling a bit whipped after 5-600 miles.


It is easier and more fuel efficient ONLY if you have an aerodynamic cap on top of the cab? You are talking about those huge trucks built to tow, not the 3/4 tons like the F250 class, are you? I have not yet seen a 3/4 ton truck with an aerodynamic cap.
[/quote]
No, he's talking about the front of the 5'er. A lot of the midpro models are pretty aerodynamic: 








vs their full profile brothers:


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## Tangooutback

OK, I see his point now. Thanks.


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## BamaOutbackers

I'll just leave this here..









2008 31KFW Outback

2007 Toyota Tundra 5.7L V8. Towing package. 430 Gears, Ride Right air bag suspension - Dual zone control, Kurt 16k Hitch - Slider, Prodigy P3 brake controller, Michellin E rated Tires


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## Carey

Bet Ive seen 100 or more tundras with the same setup. They handle it fine till they see a mountain. Us diesel guys put the hurts on em then, lol But this is a really great flatland set up for sure.

Now I did question a guy pulling a 32 foot cyclone full pro toy hauler with a tundra.. lol But your size and down seem to be just fine out there on the highways.

Carey


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## BamaOutbackers

I don't go steaming up mountains. I keep it at about 55 on steep climbs. I've thoroughly tested the truck on certain mountains in Utah and Colorado. Around 60-75 on highway. Depending on conditions.


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## Carey

BamaOutbackers said:


> I don't go steaming up mountains. I keep it at about 55 on steep climbs. I've thoroughly tested the truck on certain mountains in Utah and Colorado. Around 60-75 on highway. Depending on conditions.


Yep thats about where they run. As long as you got air bags you will be fine. Man whats the mpg at 75? Just got to know, lol.


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## BamaOutbackers

I do, the airbags and LT tires are the way to go. I can adjust the bags from inside the cab, separately. I get about 8 when I'm running 70-75.


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## Carey

BamaOutbackers said:


> I do, the airbags and LT tires are the way to go. I can adjust the bags from inside the cab, separately. I get about 8 when I'm running 70-75.


hmmm thats not too bad. My dodge wouldnt do much better at that speed. Yep you have made your truck as solid aa you can. My hats off to ya. You tundra guys have proved to me that these trucks can be overloaded and still be safe out there.

Carey


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## OutbackBrat

Here I am opening up a can of worms again.

I still have the 2009 Dodge Ram 1500 crew 5.7.

I am using the 2010 Dodge ram 1500 crew 5.7 payload and towing numbers as the trucks according to Dodge are identical and no changers were made from 2009-2010. They just changed the ratings.

So the ratings for the truck are. 
gvwr 6800 
truck weight 5336 
Payload 1440
GCWR 15,500 
Max Trailer 9950

So then here is what I am looking at
Fifth wheel
Weight 7070 lbs 
Carrying Capacity 2866
Hitch 1060
So by these numbers I should have....

Payload family - 650, hitch 150, total say 800 lbs that gives me 640 pounds left over. with a hitch weight of 1060 I am short by 420 pounds.

gcwr - 15500-5336 =10164(change # to 9950 for trailer) 9950-7070= 2880 and that is 14 lbs higher than the carrying capacity of the trailer.

SO at 2800 pounds of gear That I am positive we will not go near ( I hope) We have a lot of wiggle room cargo weight wise.

As many people have stated in this thread they are over on at least one of these #'s.

First is my math correct?

Is this safe?
A local R.C.M.P. officer across the street has the same truck in a 2011 and has the exact same trailer I want. So he is pulling the exact combo I want to. (I realize 2 wrongs dont make a ....







)

Also with the 5' 7" box I am told I need a sidewinder. I was actually looking at a husky 16k with a slider.... Would that work?

As always thanks for all your help!


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## sulvester10

Carey said:


> I see a ton of 1/2 tons rowing 5ers. The majority tow 5ers like a Cougar or North Trail.
> 
> The most popular 1/2 ton people use is the F150, next is Tundra. I have prolly seen 10 Tundras towing 32-34 foot toyhaulers this summer. Ive prolly seen 30-40 F150's towing small 5ers this summer. Ive yet to see one dragging its tail from excess weight. Ive also yet to see a 1/2 ton towing a 5er in a wreck. This summer I seen 3, 3/4 or 1 tons flipped towing mid to high profile 34-35 foot 5ers.
> 
> Reason... 1/2 tons only do about 55 while towing. 3/4 tons will push 70 or more.
> 
> Both vehicles are equally overweight. 3/4 tons are just as incapable of towing a 13000lb 5er as a 1/2 ton is towing a 9000lb 5er. EXCEPT the 3.4 ton will do 70, the 1/2 ton does 55mph.
> 
> From what I see a 1/2 ton is safer because the driver respects his combination much more than a fat headed 3/4 ton dude.
> 
> If you want a small, say 28 foot 5er you will be just fine. Just know you arent going to burn up the highways, nor are you gonna crash. Because you respect what you are towing.
> 
> Ive taken some pics of 1/2 tons towing 5ers this summer. I'll have to see if I can find them.
> 
> Yes Brat your right, there are some 1/2 ton towable 5ers. Get you some airbags or overloads. Not sure what is offered for the new rear coil sprung 09 dodge. But get what is available. Get you a Curt Q5 slider hitch, and youll be just fine.
> 
> When towing a 5er just forget your payload numbers. The vast majority dont pay any attention. I say dont worry and be happy. I have been over my payload way more than under. Even the DOT doesnt care. All you need to worry about is staying under your axle ratings.
> 
> Dont come on here asking for everyones blessing. For some reason forums bring out purests and example setters. The vast majority buys what they like and goes and has fun without worry.
> 
> If you want a 5er, cool. Lets talk about how we can make your truck safe to tow it and finding one of the size yod like.
> 
> So, what model do you like Mr. Brat?
> 
> Carey


here are the ride rite air springs. I have them installed on my truck and they make a world of difference.
http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/firestone-4190-coil-work-rite-air-bag-kit-dodge-ram-1500-2009-2011?currency=USD


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## luverofpeanuts

OutbackBrat said:


> First is my math correct?
> 
> Is this safe?
> 
> 
> 
> Well,you are 420 pounds over your truck payload....counting the DRY hitch weight of the camper. It will likely be more than that.
> 
> It's really hard to say what is 'safe' and what 'isn't'. As the driver, I'm guessing you can drive it in such a way that it is safe ;-) I don't think I'd personally like to operate a rig that is so far over the payload limit...but that's just a "numbers" thing.
> 
> Your best indication is your neighbor across the street. If he's happy with this setup, and you think it "looks" ok as you see it, that may indicate you'd feel ok with it too.
Click to expand...


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## CamperKev

Don't forget that you need to add about 200lbs for your fuel as well..And as time goes on the kids will be growing like weeds which adds more weight. Remember that half of the fun is getting to your vacation spot. You want to be able to sit back and enjoy the ride just as much as sitting back and enjoying the campsite. I wish you luck in your decision...


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## OutbackBrat

Well I picked up a cougar 27sab. Wanted to stay outback but there is nothing offered. I bought the trailer in Cincinnati Ohio and had a company haul it to Minot N.D. On route to minot the driver ran over a recliner in the middle of interstate 95. There is about $2700.00 of damage but that is almost entirely the lower sheet metal on the drivers side of the trailer. The freight company is going to pay for all the repairs as well they gave us $500 off of the tow fee to make up for it.

We towed it from Minot N.D. to Red Deer, AB. Towed like a dream compared to a bumper pull. We really had no issues at all. The wife even pulled it for 3 hours on the way back. We camped in it this past weekend and the kids had a blast. Since getting back I added the airlift 1000 airbags to the truck. Was quite an easy install and it make a huge difference. With the bumper pull it barely drops at all when attached. So far we are quite happy and are looking forward to it being fully repaired and are ready to camp


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## Collinsfam_WY

Yup you are on the right track. Bag it and put LT tires on it. Weigh it at a CAT scale and compare the results to your axle ratings. Good luck!

-CC


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