# Comparison- Trail-lite, Outback, Frontier



## rbaroni

I'm just about to take the plunge and buy a trailer, having graduated from my Viking tent trailer. This might be a loaded question here, but what are thoughts when comparing the Outback RS21, Frontier 2003, and Trail lite 8211? After looking at all three, quality seems to be comparable, but I'm sure there are things that I may not be aware of. Any feedback would be appreciated. I would like to also thank everyone who takes part in these forums, and whoever goes to the trouble to put them together. For me they are a tremendously good source of information. I have a 2004 Ford 150 Super cab with the 5.4 engine, max. trailer weight is 8300. I think I should be O.K. with all of the above regarding towing. Thanks again.


----------



## luv2rv

Hi there and welcome to the site.

You are absolutely doing the right thing by seeking out information before you buy.

Prior to buying our Outback we looked at the Trail Lites and Surveyor products. We traded in an Aerolite.

My opinion is obviously biased but, we found the interior of the Outback to be more appealing than the other units. From a fit and finish perspective I would say all three were comparable. Having previously owned another TT I find the quality level on par or better than the one we had (both are/were manufactured by THOR Industries).

IMHO it will come down to personal preference in the end (+ towing capability of vehicle - research your numbers and ensure you are comfortable with them).

Any new TT will have it's issues. It's kind of like buying a new home. You will have to track the problems that come up and have them remedied by your dealer before the warranty expires. Note: I have only had minor issues ... awning had a tear that was replace under warranty and a piece of trim came loose and was also replaced under warranty. My dealer has been very responsive.

Speaking of dealers, this is probably the single most important factor (others will attest to this)

Choosing one or knowing that you have access to one that is reliable and trustworthy is key. If issues come up and the dealer is responsive your ownership experience will much more pleasurable.

Beyond that, buy the TT and get out there and enjoy!

Wayne


----------



## BigBadBrain

I'll second what Wayne said. We also looked the Frontier over and it came down to the fact that we liked the floorplan and interior on the Outback better. It felt like the Outback was more family - camping - oriented. (Hey, this isn't science - it's all opinion). I think the hardest part was deciding which to buy, the 25RS S or the 23RS. We chose the 23RS for the queen bed up front.

Good luck and make sure you compare prices - don't commit until a couple of dealers weigh in on the model you want. Made a good $2000 in my case.

Brian


----------



## Y-Guy

Some where on here or another forum or two I've shared why I personally went with the Outback. For me it had to do with the raised bunk floor in the KZ (didn't care for) and how they mounted the batteries around the propane tanks (couldn't reach them without moving the propane tanks). KZ makes a good camper, I would keep them at the top of my list depending on the floorplan.

As for the Outback I preferred the white cabinets, it really seems to open up the camper and cleaning isn't an issue, I can't say ours shows any more dirt/dust than our Kiwi did. The flooring was also more to my liking.

The rear queen slide of the Outback and KZ to me are wonderful, you don't loose the floorspace by a bed, instead you have more living space - a big plus. KZ owners will praise the KZ rear slide system over the Outback, I guess it might be better but the setup on my Outback is quick and easy and light weight. I've never had one issue with my rear slide.

I don't have much to say about Trail Lite. I have read some things about R-vision that leaves a bad taste in my mouth, I probably wouldn't buy on of their campers after hearing how they treated some of their dealers, and some other things. I'd search on RV.net for history to compare thoughts.

The final and biggest reason I both and Outback was simple.... the Outbackers forum! Serious, with all the great folks here if there is an issue we talk about it. None of us would claim the Outback is perfect, no camper is, but for our family its been great and when/if I move to a 5er I'll take a very close look at the Outback too.

Happy Shopping... and camping.


----------



## hatcityhosehauler

I agree with everyone else, and must re-emphasis the importance of a good dealership. Take the time to visit the service department. After you close the deal on the purchase, salesmen usually don't want to know you from Adam. The service manager will be your contact, and a good service manager is better then 3 good sales people as far as return business is considered in my book.

Good luck with your search and welcome to Outbackers.

Tim


----------



## Mac

I'm sure the others are fine products that you would get years of enjoyment from also but....

One of the greatest assets of getting the Outback is this forum. The outstanding people, content, and additude that this forum provides, in my opinion, is an asset worth concidering when making your purchase. If I were looking at "equal" products, this forum would definitely tip the scales fr me!!!


----------



## Coachlight RV Sales

Here are a couple of ideas to look at. 
Outback uses a larger steel frame- stronger than the small lightweight some use
Thermo wraped cabinet doors-Cabinet doors wont scratch
Wood look floor laid down the full length of all size units-some cut and paste
All Alumium frame-Sides-roof-floor-bunks frame-dinette frame
Subfloor with insulation-some lay the wood floor on the steel frame rails
Higher weight allowed on bunks
Rear slide rated 1000# IN or OUT
Inclosed underbelly
metal guides on the cabinet doors
Recessed cabinet hinges-not the cheep gold ones used for ever
4" Square bumper-allows to add bike rack or store sewer hose-others flat thin steel
Plus many other items
Ken


----------



## Y-Guy

Coachlight RV Sales said:


> Rear slide rated 1000# IN or OUT


Ken this goes against an earlier discussion we had and that Keystone confirmed to one of our members that the slide wasn't to be used while in the IN position since there wasn't enough support. Is this a change for the 05? Do you have something in writing from Keystone on this? If you do sharing it sure would be helpful. Thanks.


----------



## Thor

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I have to agree with all of the above. Info and research is the way to go before you purchase. We looked for 2 years before we bought. Mind you this is our 1st TT. We looked at the Coleman, Apache, Surveyor, Trail Lite, Terry etc.

Our deciding factors:

1 - The interrior layout
2 - The cabinet quality and colour - White really brightens up the TT
3 - The overall construction
4 - Dealer knowledge of the Outback. Even the dealers that did not carry Outbacks tolds us they were good and compared their line to the Outback

The final decision was made at the Fall RV show when we compared them all.

Well all I can says that Outbacks














for us. We have been extremely happy with our purchase and decision. Friends of ours are upgrading from a 17 surveyor to a 21RS Outback after seeing ours. They take delivery in the spring.









Good Luck

Thor


----------



## Coachlight RV Sales

Y-Guy
I was at the factory the first of Oct. I was told this while we where at the plant that Yes the rear slide is rated for a 1000# in or out. They have added some extra support in the ceiling for this. No I don't have in writing,But my rep of several years told me this while looking at the rear slide unit
Ken


----------



## CamperAndy

Ken - On the rear slide, did they say if this was the spec since it was designed or was it a change some time in the recent past or is this new. If we could get information on when the change was made I could maybe make a change to my Mod list and scratch off the slide support while in the in position.


----------



## CWOBOATS

I just bought an Outback, this month. We bought a 5er and traded our old Terry TT. We looked for over 6 months and compared many brands.

We looked at Fleetwoods, Dutchmans, Wildcats and a couple of differant KZ's.

Quality was about the same. All of them used about the same type/manufacture of refrigerator, stoves, water heaters, A/C's and heaters. A few items that impressed us about the Outback:

The Dealer was highly rated.

The location of the Dealership was convient.

Prices were about the same.

My wife loved the white cabinets, the hidden hinges, the colors, layout and the under floor/basement storage.

I liked the fact that our slide was 3-4 inches higher than anyone elses, in our size trailer. I must have bumped my head a dozen times.

Everything being equal on on component parts and quality of construction, we went with the little things we liked.

The forum was the big seller. I studied this forum for months. It wasen't untill after we bought, that I joined.


----------



## Coachlight RV Sales

CamperAndy said:


> Ken - On the rear slide, did they say if this was the spec since it was designed or was it a change some time in the recent past or is this new. If we could get information on when the change was made I could maybe make a change to my Mod list and scratch off the slide support while in the in position.
> [snapback]17034[/snapback]​


According to Outback sales department on the rear slide 1000#in and out has always been a feature for the Outbacks. This came for the General Manger of Outback which designed the product in 2001
Ken


----------



## hatcityhosehauler

I still don't know if I'm comfortable trusting those little plastic clip thingy's in the ceiling rails to hold the slide, as well as an additional 1000#.

Tim


----------



## Y-Guy

Ken thank you for your reply, as I said in another post its nice to have a dealer here.

I thought one of our members had an email from Keystone about this? I wonder if its a year issue or not?


----------



## camping479

Tim,

If you think about it, the clips and tracks on the ceiling are not supporting the whole weight of the slide. They're not very heavy duty at all. Looks to me mostly to guide the slide in straight and carry a little weight. The rear wall of the slide is held securely to the back wall of the trailer with the arms that hold it closed. Those tracks on the ceiling probably carry a little weight, but I would bet the majority is carried by the back wall being clamped to the rear of the trailer. As long as the structure of the slide is sound, which I think it is, it could carry that amount of weight.

I've leaned on mine pretty hard when it's closed, and it deflects a little, but not much. With all that jostling around when travelling, those little tracks on the ceiling would have pulled out or bent long ago if they were carrying the weight of the front of the slide.

Mike


----------



## rbaroni

rbaroni said:


> I'm just about to take the plunge and buy a trailer, having graduated from my Viking tent trailer. This might be a loaded question here, but what are thoughts when comparing the Outback RS21, Frontier 2003, and Trail lite 8211? After looking at all three, quality seems to be comparable, but I'm sure there are things that I may not be aware of. Any feedback would be appreciated. I would like to also thank everyone who takes part in these forums, and whoever goes to the trouble to put them together. For me they are a tremendously good source of information. I have a 2004 Ford 150 Super cab with the 5.4 engine, max. trailer weight is 8300. I think I should be O.K. with all of the above regarding towing. Thanks again.
> [snapback]16943[/snapback]​


----------



## rbaroni

Thanks everyone for their feedback. I sincerely appreciate it.


----------



## hatcityhosehauler

Good point Mike, I hadn't thought about it that much. I seem to remember something like Y just mentioned about one of our members getting an e-mail or letter from Keystone telling him not to do it, but Ken has information to the contrary. In the face of two different stories, perhaps I will fire of a question to Keystone and find out what the story is, not that I would actually use the slide when in, but just to clear up the confusion.

Tim


----------



## hatcityhosehauler

Ok, just fired off an email to Keystone, the text is below. I will keep all posted on the reply I get.



> "A question has come up with an owners group about the rear slide design.
> The question: Will the rear slide support weight other then the bed itself while stowed in the travel position?
> 
> One of our members claims that the answer he received from Keystone/Outback was no it will not. There is a dealer in our ranks that says yes, it will support 1000#'s, in or out.
> 
> Could you please notify me as to which is correct. I do not intend to sleep in the slide while in, but it would be nice to be able to strip and make the bed before or after a trip without pulling the slide.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Timothy Smith"


----------



## hatcityhosehauler

OK, that was quick. Here is the response I received from Keystone-Outback.



> Friday, October 22, 2004
> 
> Dear Mr. Smith,
> 
> We have just reviewed your email sent Friday, October 22, 2004. The
> slide is designed for support of occupancy when it is in the out
> position and Keystone does not advise using the slide when it is in the
> in position. It would be ok for you to get in the slide while it is in
> the in position to make the bed or something like that, but should not
> be used for storage in travel or while parked. You are the eyes and
> ears in the field so to speak. Your comments, both positive and
> negative are welcome as they will help Keystone build more practical,
> reliable, and user friendly products.
> 
> Thank you for your time and input,
> 
> Keystone Owner Relations
> 
> Brandon Tom
> Owner Relations
> Keystone RV Company


I must say, I am impressed with the <2 hour turnaround on the question.


----------



## Y-Guy

Wow quick turn around is right, I liked the comment about the eyes & ears too, that's the attitude I appreciate when I buy something.

Though it seems Keystone is giving out some misinformation by telling dealers one thing, I feel for the dealers and the owners that get caught in this type of information sharing.

I don't doubt that it probably could handle some weight, and that Keystone maybe just covering their tails with the email, but to me 1000# is a lot of weight without support under the unit.

I found the old thread on this, right here. If you scroll down you'll see that NDJollyMon got a reply to this question, very much the same response.



NDJollyMon said:


> Ok...let's put this question to sleep...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have an OFFICIAL REPLY from KEYSTONE on this queen bed issue:
> 
> "Good afternoon Pete, in response to your e-mail, the slide out is not recommended to be used when the room is in the in position because it is supported by the ceiling rollers only and it would be possible to overload them in this position. When the room is out the room is fully supported for occupancy. Thank You!"
> 
> Sincerely,
> Keystone RV Company
> Customer Service Dept.
> 
> I guess if you put in some sort of support, it would have to take all the weight off the ceiling tracks. (and voiding warranty if something goes bad)
> 
> At least we know now!
> [snapback]628[/snapback]​


----------



## BigBadBrain

Coming from the engineering world, I can understand the response. My guess is that they spent little or no time ever testing the slide for load capacity while stowed simply due to lack of time and budget for development. After all, it isn't the primary use for the slide and therefore not a high priority for test. Since no dedicated tests were conducted, to protect themselves they cannot quote a capability. Remember the world we live in now - attorneys out number the plains buffalo prior to Columbus.







Sad but true - Keystone needs to protect itself so it can keep producing Outbacks for us!

Prompt reply is impressive. Need to send some of the recent posts about how Outbackers Forum was a deciding factor in selecting the Outback over other models - seriously, they should be told. Could come as quite a shock.

Brian


----------



## ktmrder

When looking at the TT, open the door and look to see how thick at the door frame it is. Most all TT are recessed at the door except the Outback. The walls are as thick as the door frame. We did not find that with the other trailers we looked at.

Cami


----------



## shake1969

Sometimes I don't feel like eyes and ears.

My salesman told me "the great thing is, if you are travelling and need to rest, you can pull off the road and climb in the bed without sliding the thing out."

Maybe since he isn't an eye or an ear, he might be a butt.


----------



## Balki14

We have the 21RS as well but are also very hesitant to use it as there does not seem to be enought support in the rig to handle the weight.

I am not sure what our dealer told us, which is one of the reasons we are moving to a fifth wheel so there will be no questions in the future. As far as which unit to pick, we looked at the Trail Lite and realized the quality of the Outbacks are in our own mind, far superior to that rig.

But, as this post has clearly emphasized, the "quality is in the eye of the beholder"..


----------

