# 312Bh A/c



## joeymac (Aug 19, 2010)

In Nashville on vacation and it's 105 degrees outside. The A/C unit isn't remotely keeping up. We weren't even around all day and when we got back to it at 8:00 this evening the t-stat said 92 in the camper. I had the unit check out last week and the dealer said it was functioning as it should. So I eliminated that and eliminated the kids running in and out of the trailer all day. Still not cooling. Need a quick fix this week. Would a swamp cooler help? They are a fraction of the cost of a portable unit and less hassle to hook it up. Does anyone have any experience with these? We need relief.


----------



## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

First we need to know how thew dealer defined that it was working. Measure the vent outlet temperature and it should be at least 20 degrees below outside ambient and as cold as 60 degrees F. If it is icing up the dealer would not have seen that as they would not have run it long enough. So the ice detector location needs to be verified.

Once the sun went down how well did it cool?

There have been issues with poorly sealed ducts in the ceiling so that needs to be checked.

BTW if you were parked in full sun it is unlikely to manage with the AC at those ambient temperatures.


----------



## H2oSprayer (Aug 5, 2006)

Do you happen to know the size of the AC unit? In our area, the 13,500 unit is standard. When we ordered our 312, we had them upgrade the AC to the 15,000 unit. During our last camping trip, the outside temps were routinely in the mid 90's, while the interior was still comfortable. As it was comfortable inside, I didn't bother to measure the temps, but I can assure you that is wasn't in the upper 80's or I would have been hearing it from the DW. I guess I would have the same question as Andy; how did they verify it was working correctly?


----------



## Kevin K (Jan 31, 2011)

Yes, check that the vents are blowing cold air. Last time we were out the evaporator coil froze solid. After thawing it out we were good to go. If the air is not cold take the inside filter off the unit and check the coil. Let us know what you find. Yes, 105% outside is hot but it shouldn't be 92% inside.


----------



## Good Times (Jan 23, 2012)

My update...got my dealer to replace the 13.5k btu A/C unit with a 15k btu unit. It did cost me 225.00 but that is totally worth it. The 13.5k unit simply is not big enough for the 301BQ plane and simple. I would pressure the dealer as well as Keystone. Immediately noticed a difference with the 15k unit as the blower is much stronger and really moves air thru the ducting much better than the 13.5k unit did. We will have a good chance to test performance later in the week. I will let you all know our opinion of the bigger unit once we have a better chance to test it out.

One more thing...used an instant read meat thermometer to measure the air temp coming out of the unit....it was 45 degrees at its coldest and that was with the outdoor temp at about 92. This was measured right at the air vents in the bottom of the A/C unit. Didn't measure the air temp in the back bedroom...I will do that next time I get a chance on another hot day.


----------



## Rmk2001800 (Apr 17, 2011)

add another unit into the vent in the roof by the mircowave- lydback on here is a good resource- and im sure he will throw his 2 cents in shortly..... I did mine this spring for about 600 bucks. Its 97 and humid in iowa this week and im the only one with condensation on the windows, god i love this life!


----------



## joeymac (Aug 19, 2010)

CamperAndy said:


> First we need to know how thew dealer defined that it was working. Measure the vent outlet temperature and it should be at least 20 degrees below outside ambient and as cold as 60 degrees F. If it is icing up the dealer would not have seen that as they would not have run it long enough. So the ice detector location needs to be verified.
> 
> Once the sun went down how well did it cool?
> 
> ...


According to the dealer, they shot the air coming out with a temp gauge and they told me that air coming out was within the specs of the unit. They also told me they inspected the duct work and said it was fine. I don't believe it was icing up, as the air coming out is cold and the flow is pretty consistent throughout the day.

Once the sun goes down the camper will cool off, something like 1 degree every 10-20 mins. By the time I get up in the am, it usually gets down to 68-70 degrees, with ambient temps in the morning being 80-85 degrees.

We are in a partially shady site, with good coverage in the am, but once noon rolls around, it is in full sun.


----------



## Rmk2001800 (Apr 17, 2011)

Sounds the same as mine last yr- to many sqft to cool with a 13.5


----------



## joeymac (Aug 19, 2010)

Good Times said:


> My update...got my dealer to replace the 13.5k btu A/C unit with a 15k btu unit. It did cost me 225.00 but that is totally worth it. The 13.5k unit simply is not big enough for the 301BQ plane and simple. I would pressure the dealer as well as Keystone. Immediately noticed a difference with the 15k unit as the blower is much stronger and really moves air thru the ducting much better than the 13.5k unit did. We will have a good chance to test performance later in the week. I will let you all know our opinion of the bigger unit once we have a better chance to test it out.
> 
> One more thing...used an instant read meat thermometer to measure the air temp coming out of the unit....it was 45 degrees at its coldest and that was with the outdoor temp at about 92. This was measured right at the air vents in the bottom of the A/C unit. Didn't measure the air temp in the back bedroom...I will do that next time I get a chance on another hot day.


Yeah, I inquired about that as well. I might type a note to Keystone this week and lay out the situation. In the meantime, I went to Home Depot yesterday and bought a portable LG 7000BTU A/C unit. 
I put in in the bunkhouse, and fashioned and exhaust for it out of the back window. It only pulls 7 amps so it just plugs right in to the back outlet. Seems to be helping already. 
It


----------



## LaydBack (Aug 22, 2010)

I'm a firm believer in the 2 AC units on these large/long units, as well as the furnace blower mod. I too, have one of the portable AC units, but decided the 2nd unit on the roof was better suited and far less of a PIA for me. In terms of expectations from the 15K unit, I posted the following in another thread on here last week. I included a pic in that post, but here's the verbage.

Just wanted to do a bit of a follow up on the AC upgrade. Since we're experiencing record temperatures, I called the wife at lunch (noon) and told her to turn on the 15K BTU (ducted) AC unit. At that time she said that the stat in the trailer registered 91 and I believe my phone said about 100 at work. I got home at 4 and checked the stat in the trailer and it registered 81 and the trailer is comfortable as I sit here typing (wife said she'd probably dawn a light sweater, but I think she has body temperature issues....always cold). I stuck my thermometer on the outside of the window and it reads 101. A 20 degree difference from ambient is pretty good. I turned the 2nd unit on lo cool and turned on the furnace blower, and within 10-12 minutes the stat in the trailer was at 77. Unfortunately I can't see how much lower it will drop because I've been lazy and never truly converted my power hookup to 50A, it's just the 30A 120V power wired to both hot legs of the 50A receptacle, and the breaker is tripping. I've run both on this setup before without issue, but today I guess the heat is playing a role. I don't doubt that it would approach 70 with both units running. I'm posting a pic to give an idea of shade/sun exposure. Also, didn't realize that when I told her to turn the unit on, the 2 original vents in the main area of the camper were closed, so the 81 reading was with just the bedroom and bunkhouse vents open, and the one I added at the front door.

Hopefully, this helps anyone trying to contemplate 15K BTU vs. 13.5K BTU. Personally, on a trailer this size, I think 2 is the way to go. I think the 15K unit is doing great to get the 20 degree differential in 100 degree temps with decent shade cover, but I like knowing it's got backup for when there's more bodies in the camper and 81 doesn't feel so comfy. As I finish this up with just the 15K unit and furnace blower on with all vents open, the stat is at 79 degrees and outside thermometer is still at 101.7. I guess the furnace blower mod gained me 2 degrees of comfort from just the AC unit.


----------



## joeymac (Aug 19, 2010)

LaydBack said:


> I'm a firm believer in the 2 AC units on these large/long units, as well as the furnace blower mod. I too, have one of the portable AC units, but decided the 2nd unit on the roof was better suited and far less of a PIA for me. In terms of expectations from the 15K unit, I posted the following in another thread on here last week. I included a pic in that post, but here's the verbage.
> 
> Just wanted to do a bit of a follow up on the AC upgrade. Since we're experiencing record temperatures, I called the wife at lunch (noon) and told her to turn on the 15K BTU (ducted) AC unit. At that time she said that the stat in the trailer registered 91 and I believe my phone said about 100 at work. I got home at 4 and checked the stat in the trailer and it registered 81 and the trailer is comfortable as I sit here typing (wife said she'd probably dawn a light sweater, but I think she has body temperature issues....always cold). I stuck my thermometer on the outside of the window and it reads 101. A 20 degree difference from ambient is pretty good. I turned the 2nd unit on lo cool and turned on the furnace blower, and within 10-12 minutes the stat in the trailer was at 77. Unfortunately I can't see how much lower it will drop because I've been lazy and never truly converted my power hookup to 50A, it's just the 30A 120V power wired to both hot legs of the 50A receptacle, and the breaker is tripping. I've run both on this setup before without issue, but today I guess the heat is playing a role. I don't doubt that it would approach 70 with both units running. I'm posting a pic to give an idea of shade/sun exposure. Also, didn't realize that when I told her to turn the unit on, the 2 original vents in the main area of the camper were closed, so the 81 reading was with just the bedroom and bunkhouse vents open, and the one I added at the front door.
> 
> Hopefully, this helps anyone trying to contemplate 15K BTU vs. 13.5K BTU. Personally, on a trailer this size, I think 2 is the way to go. I think the 15K unit is doing great to get the 20 degree differential in 100 degree temps with decent shade cover, but I like knowing it's got backup for when there's more bodies in the camper and 81 doesn't feel so comfy. As I finish this up with just the 15K unit and furnace blower on with all vents open, the stat is at 79 degrees and outside thermometer is still at 101.7. I guess the furnace blower mod gained me 2 degrees of comfort from just the AC unit.


Thanks LB....I guess I am going to live with this "work around" for this season and next, as I am contemplating selling this 312BH after the 2013 camping season is over. I just dont want to put any more money into it at this point. I like the new front cap and not having to worry about the delam on the front anymore. Once I order the new unit, I will get a factory 15K and then have the dealer install a second unit. 
Thanks for the advice !

JM


----------



## RDS (Jul 20, 2011)

LaydBack said:


> I'm a firm believer in the 2 AC units on these large/long units, as well as the furnace blower mod. I too, have one of the portable AC units, but decided the 2nd unit on the roof was better suited and far less of a PIA for me. In terms of expectations from the 15K unit, I posted the following in another thread on here last week. I included a pic in that post, but here's the verbage.
> 
> Just wanted to do a bit of a follow up on the AC upgrade. Since we're experiencing record temperatures, I called the wife at lunch (noon) and told her to turn on the 15K BTU (ducted) AC unit. At that time she said that the stat in the trailer registered 91 and I believe my phone said about 100 at work. I got home at 4 and checked the stat in the trailer and it registered 81 and the trailer is comfortable as I sit here typing (wife said she'd probably dawn a light sweater, but I think she has body temperature issues....always cold). I stuck my thermometer on the outside of the window and it reads 101. A 20 degree difference from ambient is pretty good. I turned the 2nd unit on lo cool and turned on the furnace blower, and within 10-12 minutes the stat in the trailer was at 77. Unfortunately I can't see how much lower it will drop because I've been lazy and never truly converted my power hookup to 50A, it's just the 30A 120V power wired to both hot legs of the 50A receptacle, and the breaker is tripping. I've run both on this setup before without issue, but today I guess the heat is playing a role. I don't doubt that it would approach 70 with both units running. I'm posting a pic to give an idea of shade/sun exposure. Also, didn't realize that when I told her to turn the unit on, the 2 original vents in the main area of the camper were closed, so the 81 reading was with just the bedroom and bunkhouse vents open, and the one I added at the front door.
> 
> Hopefully, this helps anyone trying to contemplate 15K BTU vs. 13.5K BTU. Personally, on a trailer this size, I think 2 is the way to go. I think the 15K unit is doing great to get the 20 degree differential in 100 degree temps with decent shade cover, but I like knowing it's got backup for when there's more bodies in the camper and 81 doesn't feel so comfy. As I finish this up with just the 15K unit and furnace blower on with all vents open, the stat is at 79 degrees and outside thermometer is still at 101.7. I guess the furnace blower mod gained me 2 degrees of comfort from just the AC unit.


Not to get too far off topic, is the furnace blower mod doable with the older Carrier remote system? I hate when it cycles on and off in the winter and if would help air flow in the summer it would be a win win...


----------



## LaydBack (Aug 22, 2010)

joeymac said:


> I'm a firm believer in the 2 AC units on these large/long units, as well as the furnace blower mod. I too, have one of the portable AC units, but decided the 2nd unit on the roof was better suited and far less of a PIA for me. In terms of expectations from the 15K unit, I posted the following in another thread on here last week. I included a pic in that post, but here's the verbage.
> 
> Just wanted to do a bit of a follow up on the AC upgrade. Since we're experiencing record temperatures, I called the wife at lunch (noon) and told her to turn on the 15K BTU (ducted) AC unit. At that time she said that the stat in the trailer registered 91 and I believe my phone said about 100 at work. I got home at 4 and checked the stat in the trailer and it registered 81 and the trailer is comfortable as I sit here typing (wife said she'd probably dawn a light sweater, but I think she has body temperature issues....always cold). I stuck my thermometer on the outside of the window and it reads 101. A 20 degree difference from ambient is pretty good. I turned the 2nd unit on lo cool and turned on the furnace blower, and within 10-12 minutes the stat in the trailer was at 77. Unfortunately I can't see how much lower it will drop because I've been lazy and never truly converted my power hookup to 50A, it's just the 30A 120V power wired to both hot legs of the 50A receptacle, and the breaker is tripping. I've run both on this setup before without issue, but today I guess the heat is playing a role. I don't doubt that it would approach 70 with both units running. I'm posting a pic to give an idea of shade/sun exposure. Also, didn't realize that when I told her to turn the unit on, the 2 original vents in the main area of the camper were closed, so the 81 reading was with just the bedroom and bunkhouse vents open, and the one I added at the front door.
> 
> Hopefully, this helps anyone trying to contemplate 15K BTU vs. 13.5K BTU. Personally, on a trailer this size, I think 2 is the way to go. I think the 15K unit is doing great to get the 20 degree differential in 100 degree temps with decent shade cover, but I like knowing it's got backup for when there's more bodies in the camper and 81 doesn't feel so comfy. As I finish this up with just the 15K unit and furnace blower on with all vents open, the stat is at 79 degrees and outside thermometer is still at 101.7. I guess the furnace blower mod gained me 2 degrees of comfort from just the AC unit.


Thanks LB....I guess I am going to live with this "work around" for this season and next, as I am contemplating selling this 312BH after the 2013 camping season is over. I just dont want to put any more money into it at this point. I like the new front cap and not having to worry about the delam on the front anymore. Once I order the new unit, I will get a factory 15K and then have the dealer install a second unit. 
Thanks for the advice !

JM
[/quote]
If I were you and I was talking to them about ordering a new unit, I'd inquire about them getting it in 50A, as well. If they'd entertain that, half your battle is won. I don't know why they don't just install the panel where I installed my 50A panel, which is where the cord stows. I get the 50A cord, my adapters, drill, flashlight, charger in that space, and my hardwired surge guard is installed in there. They'd have to work out a couple more details, but it'd give storage under the stove.


----------



## LaydBack (Aug 22, 2010)

RDS said:


> I'm a firm believer in the 2 AC units on these large/long units, as well as the furnace blower mod. I too, have one of the portable AC units, but decided the 2nd unit on the roof was better suited and far less of a PIA for me. In terms of expectations from the 15K unit, I posted the following in another thread on here last week. I included a pic in that post, but here's the verbage.
> 
> Just wanted to do a bit of a follow up on the AC upgrade. Since we're experiencing record temperatures, I called the wife at lunch (noon) and told her to turn on the 15K BTU (ducted) AC unit. At that time she said that the stat in the trailer registered 91 and I believe my phone said about 100 at work. I got home at 4 and checked the stat in the trailer and it registered 81 and the trailer is comfortable as I sit here typing (wife said she'd probably dawn a light sweater, but I think she has body temperature issues....always cold). I stuck my thermometer on the outside of the window and it reads 101. A 20 degree difference from ambient is pretty good. I turned the 2nd unit on lo cool and turned on the furnace blower, and within 10-12 minutes the stat in the trailer was at 77. Unfortunately I can't see how much lower it will drop because I've been lazy and never truly converted my power hookup to 50A, it's just the 30A 120V power wired to both hot legs of the 50A receptacle, and the breaker is tripping. I've run both on this setup before without issue, but today I guess the heat is playing a role. I don't doubt that it would approach 70 with both units running. I'm posting a pic to give an idea of shade/sun exposure. Also, didn't realize that when I told her to turn the unit on, the 2 original vents in the main area of the camper were closed, so the 81 reading was with just the bedroom and bunkhouse vents open, and the one I added at the front door.
> 
> Hopefully, this helps anyone trying to contemplate 15K BTU vs. 13.5K BTU. Personally, on a trailer this size, I think 2 is the way to go. I think the 15K unit is doing great to get the 20 degree differential in 100 degree temps with decent shade cover, but I like knowing it's got backup for when there's more bodies in the camper and 81 doesn't feel so comfy. As I finish this up with just the 15K unit and furnace blower on with all vents open, the stat is at 79 degrees and outside thermometer is still at 101.7. I guess the furnace blower mod gained me 2 degrees of comfort from just the AC unit.


Not to get too far off topic, is the furnace blower mod doable with the older Carrier remote system? I hate when it cycles on and off in the winter and if would help air flow in the summer it would be a win win...
[/quote]

Not familiar with that unit, but I'm pretty sure it could. You'd probably have to mount a small switch on the unit, like the one I put on my digital stat for the hi/lo AC fan. Then it should basically be the same as I posted for doing the blower mod. The link in my sig should have pics explaining it, too.


----------



## WWH (May 7, 2010)

joeymac said:


> In Nashville on vacation and it's 105 degrees outside. The A/C unit isn't remotely keeping up. We weren't even around all day and when we got back to it at 8:00 this evening the t-stat said 92 in the camper. I had the unit check out last week and the dealer said it was functioning as it should. So I eliminated that and eliminated the kids running in and out of the trailer all day. Still not cooling. Need a quick fix this week. Would a swamp cooler help? They are a fraction of the cost of a portable unit and less hassle to hook it up. Does anyone have any experience with these? We need relief.


When we purchased our SOB it had one ducted 15k ac unit and would not cool the trailer in temps above 90. At the suggestions of others on this forun I checked the installation of the ducted unit and found a terrible installation where the return air and the cool air supposed to be entering the ducts was just blowing into the roof area. After sealing the ducts correctly it improved the performance but still would not cool the trailer to a comfortable level in 100 degree heat.

I converted from 30 amp to 50 amp service and added the second 15k ac unit. The unit I added is a non ducted unit. Both ac units are 15k but with the placement of the ac ducts so close to the roof the ducted unit is not very efficient. During the middle of the day in 100 degree plus heat this unit is almost useless

The single non ducted AC will almost keep the trailer cool in 100 degree heat by itself but together they do a great job. The inside temp in 105 degree heat with no shade gets down to the low to mid 70's which is where we like it.

I am also a firm beliver in 50 amp service and two ac units if you want to camp in hot weather.

Hope this was helpful.


----------



## joeymac (Aug 19, 2010)

Maybe someone can chime in here. I went to home Depot yesterday and bought an infered thermometer. Measured the cold air coming out of the ducts in the bunkhouse as well as the air coming directly from the unit itself. Ambient temperature outside yesterday was 106 F. The air coming out of the quick cool was 73. The air coming out of the ducts in the bunkhouse was measuring 75 F. Is this within specs? The temp in the TT was 88F. I took a couple of readings on the outside of the front cap of the trailer and it read 139 F. The windows read 110 F even with that reflective insulation in the windows.
Is it possible the unit needs more freeon, or is this as good as I can expect it to get? 
Thanks for your input.


----------



## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

joeymac said:


> Maybe someone can chime in here. I went to home Depot yesterday and bought an infered thermometer. Measured the cold air coming out of the ducts in the bunkhouse as well as the air coming directly from the unit itself. Ambient temperature outside yesterday was 106 F. The air coming out of the quick cool was 73. The air coming out of the ducts in the bunkhouse was measuring 75 F. Is this within specs? The temp in the TT was 88F. I took a couple of readings on the outside of the front cap of the trailer and it read 139 F. The windows read 110 F even with that reflective insulation in the windows.
> Is it possible the unit needs more freeon, or is this as good as I can expect it to get?
> Thanks for your input.


Based on those numbers I would say you are getting the best you can get for the conditions.


----------



## WWH (May 7, 2010)

joeymac said:


> Maybe someone can chime in here. I went to home Depot yesterday and bought an infered thermometer. Measured the cold air coming out of the ducts in the bunkhouse as well as the air coming directly from the unit itself. Ambient temperature outside yesterday was 106 F. The air coming out of the quick cool was 73. The air coming out of the ducts in the bunkhouse was measuring 75 F. Is this within specs? The temp in the TT was 88F. I took a couple of readings on the outside of the front cap of the trailer and it read 139 F. The windows read 110 F even with that reflective insulation in the windows.
> Is it possible the unit needs more freeon, or is this as good as I can expect it to get?
> Thanks for your input.


Your single AC unit is doing all it can do. In my opinion that is why you need two units and 50 amp service to get to comfortable inside temps in 100 plus temps, especially with little or no shade.


----------



## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

A 33 degree drop from ambient is actually pretty good. These 13.5k air-conditioners just don't have much oomph. Have you pulled down the vent registers and looked for gaps that would allow cold air into the ceiling space? Every one of ours was poorly sealed. Also, take off the ceiling grille under the a/c unit and with metal sticky tape, cover every potential air leak in the unit that you can find. You should have one side sucking only room air in (not air from leaks in the ceiling space), and the other side should be discharging it into the two (small) rectangular ducts. Check the divider between "in and out" and make sure the gasket is making a good seal. Ours was a mess of flaps of rubber roofing material, open gaps into the ceiling space, and the intake side was partially blocked. Cleaned it all up and the difference in airflow is very noticeable.


----------

