# Hello Everyone! I Hope I'm Not In The Wrong Place...



## Aldakoopa (May 19, 2012)

Hello! I was just looking around for some forums about campers that maybe I could find some answers to a few questions I was having, and maybe look to see what others have done to their campers. I'm not really sure if this is the best site for me though, but even with the power of Google I wasn't having much luck finding info on what I wanted and needed to know, so I decided I'd just go ahead and register here and ask my questions. Here's the reason I'm not sure if this is the best place for me: although I really enjoy camping, I haven't really been in a while, and I'm not really going to be using my camper for "camping" anytime soon. I just bought a 30ft 1999 Prowler camper for $800, but it's actually to live in for a little while. I'm young and live alone, so space isn't too much of an issue and I figure I can live comfortably in just this camper for a while until I can get something better.

I currently live in a very old trailer that is falling apart. I live in eastern NC and the trailer suffered damage from flooding in the area last year during hurricane Irene on top of what was already failing in it, but Irene just hastened the degradation and it's been way downhill ever since. I'm tired of pouring money into the place and watching it fall apart faster than I can repair it, so I found a camper in good condition with a very low price. It has some minor repairs needed, the biggest of which would be replacing the carpeting and linoleum as it too was damaged by flood waters, but the floor is still rock solid, and the water only barely got into it, so all of the electrical outlets and things are unaffected. I'm just looking to make some slight modifications to it to make it more comfortable to live in long-term.

Since I will be living in it in my own yard, I can just have the necessary hookups installed for placing a camper on the lot - water, electricity, and somewhere for a septic line. The modifications I am hoping to do include removing the propane-burning fridge and replacing it with my current fridge (it's small enough to fit through the door!), upgrading and modifying the electrical in it; remove the 12V DC system and original breaker/fuse panel, replace it with a small panel that is for 110V AC without the 12V DC fuses, which will give me more room for an extra circuit or two to be able to handle the more aggressive daily electrical load of a fridge, television, gaming computer, A/C or heater, and whatever lights and other appliances I might be using. (I'm not going to make it dangerous, don't worry! I know how electricity works and how dangerous it can be so I won't be adding an insanely high-amp breaker or any 220V appliances to this thing!) I also want to remove the bunk beds since I will have no use for them alone, or with my girlfriend when she visits, and use the space that opens up to modify and expand the bathroom to have room for a standard full-size bathtub, sink/cabinet, and toilet. I will try and find the appropriate categories to post my questions in and once again, I hope I'm not in the wrong place since this site seems to be about camping away from home and not full time living in your own yard!


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## Aldakoopa (May 19, 2012)

I think I just realised that this is a forum for brand of campers called Outback... WHOOPS!







I'm sorry about that guys! Shows how much I actually know about campers... Maybe I can still ask my few questions as they should be fairly universal for most campers I hope...


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

Welcome, and don't worry about not owning an Outback - we have many here who have different brands of travel trailers that we refer to as SOB's (some other brand - we aren't calling you names!). Sounds like you have a reasonable plan to make the Prowler liveable, and hopefully the water damage isn't more than what you've already noticed. Make sure to take a close look at the roof and repair any areas that may be leaking, especially around vent pipes and other fixtures. Be careful with your plans for the electrical service, as your interior/exterior lighting and circuit board controls for the fridge, furnace, water heater and A/C will all be 12 volt DC powered. Rip that existing panel out and none of those things will work. Also keep in mind that most trailers are set up for a 30 amp main service, unless it's a big one and it will have 50 amp service. That's a lot less than the typical household electrical service, so you won't have a lot of circuits to play with. Keep us updated, sounds like it could be an interesting project.


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## Aldakoopa (May 19, 2012)

Insomniak said:


> Welcome, and don't worry about not owning an Outback - we have many here who have different brands of travel trailers that we refer to as SOB's (some other brand - we aren't calling you names!). Sounds like you have a reasonable plan to make the Prowler liveable, and hopefully the water damage isn't more than what you've already noticed. Make sure to take a close look at the roof and repair any areas that may be leaking, especially around vent pipes and other fixtures. Be careful with your plans for the electrical service, as your interior/exterior lighting and circuit board controls for the fridge, furnace, water heater and A/C will all be 12 volt DC powered. Rip that existing panel out and none of those things will work. Also keep in mind that most trailers are set up for a 30 amp main service, unless it's a big one and it will have 50 amp service. That's a lot less than the typical household electrical service, so you won't have a lot of circuits to play with. Keep us updated, sounds like it could be an interesting project.


Thank you! Well, I'm glad you accept members who don't own an Outback! I realise that none of the 12V DC powered appliances/fixtures will work if I pull the existing box out, but I'm going to either leave them alone or remove them and possibly replace some of the lights with 110V fixtures if need be, if not then I might just use some of those stick-on battery powered touch lights. I don't imagine I'll use the 12V lights much, and as for the water heater, fridge, and furnace, I will be removing those anyway. I want to put in a normal 110V fridge and a 110V water heater, I didn't realise that the A/C was 12V as well though! So I'll have to make plans to replace that with a window unit or something too. The camper has a slide out as well, but since the tide water that got it was salt water, it ruined the motor so I will have to manually slide it out. I don't want to have to worry about recharging and/or replacing 12V car batteries that will be drained fairly often from everyday long-term use, hence the reason for wanting to eliminate the 12V system and replace with all 110V AC fixtures. I know that the 30A service isn't going to be enough for me either, I'll probably need at least 50A. I have a small box I was going to put in that has a 100A max, but I was thinking of limiting that to at most 75A and I was only going to make about 4 or 5 total circuits; maybe 1 for the kitchen (outlets for fridge, microwave, and other small appliances), 1 for the lights, 1 or 2 (depending on how much I figure out I'll need) for the other outlets around the camper, and 1 for the water heater. I have a somewhat general knowledge of how electrical circuits work, and I've all but completely rewired my old trailer. I've had to replace the box inside and out, add circuits, add outlets, etc... and if I run into any problems I have a friend who does this stuff for a living, so he can even help me make sure it's completely safe and up to code and whatnot.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

The AC is 110 vac but typically requires 12 vdc for control.

The 12 vdc battery will last years if the trailer is plugged in all the time.

You may want to really consider some of the changes you want to make.


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## Aldakoopa (May 19, 2012)

CamperAndy said:


> The AC is 110 vac but typically requires 12 vdc for control.
> 
> The 12 vdc battery will last years if the trailer is plugged in all the time.
> 
> You may want to really consider some of the changes you want to make.


Yeah I just looked at the panel in the camper and the A/C is 110V AC, but I don't understand the 12V DC control part. You mean the thermostat on the wall is powered by the battery?

Also, does the second line you said mean that the AC system charges the DC battery?

Either way, I'm still pretty sure I'll need a few more amps than this thing originally provides to live comfortably. I do have a power-hungry gaming PC that will consume a few amps alone, plus whatever else will be in there. Is there any way to find wiring diagrams for my particular model camper to see exactly what's going on in there in the first place?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Your AC supply will continually charge your battery and if all else fails the 120 vac to 12 vdc converter can run things without a battery if needed.

Never going to find a wiring diagram for that trailer with 100% confidence.


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

If it were me.... I would upgrade the main power center to 50 amps. You can use double 120 volt breakers as you add new circuits, so you won't run out of space in the panel. Leave the AC-DC power converter in place and selectively remove or abandon 12 volt circuits that you don't need after your remodeling. The trailer is already set up with 12 volt lighting which is usually adequate, and you can change the bulbs to LED's as many of us have done. That modification will save you a TON of amps, and can be done quite cheaply if you search the threads on the forums. If the trailer's air-conditioner is functional, you might as well use it, especially if it's a ducted model. You will need 12 volt power to the air-conditioner to allow it to operate though (the circuit board and thermostat use low voltage and the guts use 120 volt power). An air-conditioner specifically made for a trailer will probably use less electricity than a window A/C made for a house, giving you more breathing room at the main power center. They aren't cheap though, and if you need to get a new one, expect to pay around $600-$1,000. The existing water heater in the trailer may only operate on propane being that it's 13 years old, but newer models can run on propane or 110 volt AC power. Standard water heaters are only 6 gallons, which should be enough if it's just you, but they are available in sizes up to 18 gallons (Suburban Manufacturing). You may be able to find a used one in cyberspace that will fit the existing cutout, or you may need to make the opening larger.

What model Prowler is this? Aluminum or fiberglass siding? If it's a Fleetwood, I may be mistaken but I don't think they make travel trailers any longer, just motor homes. That may make it more difficult to obtain manuals, but they're usually not very helpful anyway.


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## Aldakoopa (May 19, 2012)

CamperAndy said:


> Your AC supply will continually charge your battery and if all else fails the 120 vac to 12 vdc converter can run things without a battery if needed.
> 
> Never going to find a wiring diagram for that trailer with 100% confidence.


Does it need a battery at all to run the 12V fixtures, as long as it's hooked up to 110V AC power and the converter is working?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Aldakoopa said:


> Your AC supply will continually charge your battery and if all else fails the 120 vac to 12 vdc converter can run things without a battery if needed.
> 
> Never going to find a wiring diagram for that trailer with 100% confidence.


Does it need a battery at all to run the 12V fixtures, as long as it's hooked up to 110V AC power and the converter is working?
[/quote]

No but it is recommended as the battery will help stabilize the output of the converter.


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## Aldakoopa (May 19, 2012)

I don't think my converter is working at all then. When it's plugged in there is no 12V power at all, only the 110V outlets and lights work. The 12V things only work when connected to a battery, and the A/C doesn't work. The motor hums but it doesn't turn. I'm wondering if that can still be fixed though...

On a side note, what if I do keep the 12V stuff, remove the current panel/converter, and replace it with the same panel I was originally planning to do, even if I limit it to a 50A main breaker, and then hook up a new 110V AC to 12V DC converter and wire that to a fuse panel for the 12V fixtures? Would that work and be the best option?


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## Aldakoopa (May 19, 2012)

By the way, thanks for all your help you guys! I would be completely lost if it wasn't for your knowledge. I work on cars for a living, I have dealt with electronics and wiring in them, I have built from scratch and upgraded computers, I have replaced breaker panels in houses and wired up new circuits and outlets and light fixtures, but I have never once dealt with having 110V AC and 12V DC power in the same place working together like this.


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## Aldakoopa (May 19, 2012)

Insomniak said:


> What model Prowler is this? Aluminum or fiberglass siding? If it's a Fleetwood, I may be mistaken but I don't think they make travel trailers any longer, just motor homes. That may make it more difficult to obtain manuals, but they're usually not very helpful anyway.


This is a 1999 Fleetwood Prowler with fiberglass siding.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

On your AC unit it sounds like the motor is shot but before it is condemned take the cover off to make sure a mud dauber has not built a nest and it is blocking the fan. Try to turn the fan by hand to see if it is seized.


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## Aldakoopa (May 19, 2012)

Yes I was going to look more into it but it's raining today and supposed to continue all week.


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

Aldakoopa said:


> I don't think my converter is working at all then. When it's plugged in there is no 12V power at all, only the 110V outlets and lights work. The 12V things only work when connected to a battery, and the A/C doesn't work. The motor hums but it doesn't turn. I'm wondering if that can still be fixed though...
> 
> On a side note, what if I do keep the 12V stuff, remove the current panel/converter, and replace it with the same panel I was originally planning to do, even if I limit it to a 50A main breaker, and then hook up a new 110V AC to 12V DC converter and wire that to a fuse panel for the 12V fixtures? Would that work and be the best option?


Check all of the breakers, fuses and connections before declaring the converter DOA. There may be corrosion from the salt water that you haven't found yet. Look at the ground connections to the trailer frame and see if there are thermal breakers up front at the A-frame. There also may be a junction box or two somewhere on the frame.

I suppose you could retro-fit a new main panel, but you may want to take a look online at main electrical panels to see if there's a 50 amp model that will suit your purposes. There may very well be one that will fit the existing cutout for whatever model you have. It will include the AC breaker side and also a 12 volt DC panel as well. I would try to keep replacement parts for the important items from trailer-specific manufacturers whenever possible. It is a trailer after all, even though you're modifying it to be more of a mobile home. Who knows, you may want to sell it someday when things get better for you.

Being that it's a fiberglass model, that will make it a bit easier to make cutouts if need be for any appliances or whatever. Corrugated aluminum may be sturdier, but sometimes it's not very easy to work with around windows and other cutouts.


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## Aldakoopa (May 19, 2012)

Insomniak said:


> I don't think my converter is working at all then. When it's plugged in there is no 12V power at all, only the 110V outlets and lights work. The 12V things only work when connected to a battery, and the A/C doesn't work. The motor hums but it doesn't turn. I'm wondering if that can still be fixed though...
> 
> On a side note, what if I do keep the 12V stuff, remove the current panel/converter, and replace it with the same panel I was originally planning to do, even if I limit it to a 50A main breaker, and then hook up a new 110V AC to 12V DC converter and wire that to a fuse panel for the 12V fixtures? Would that work and be the best option?


Check all of the breakers, fuses and connections before declaring the converter DOA. There may be corrosion from the salt water that you haven't found yet. Look at the ground connections to the trailer frame and see if there are thermal breakers up front at the A-frame. There also may be a junction box or two somewhere on the frame.

I suppose you could retro-fit a new main panel, but you may want to take a look online at main electrical panels to see if there's a 50 amp model that will suit your purposes. There may very well be one that will fit the existing cutout for whatever model you have. It will include the AC breaker side and also a 12 volt DC panel as well. I would try to keep replacement parts for the important items from trailer-specific manufacturers whenever possible. It is a trailer after all, even though you're modifying it to be more of a mobile home. Who knows, you may want to sell it someday when things get better for you.

Being that it's a fiberglass model, that will make it a bit easier to make cutouts if need be for any appliances or whatever. Corrugated aluminum may be sturdier, but sometimes it's not very easy to work with around windows and other cutouts.
[/quote]

It doesn't even look like the water got in the panel at all, no corrosion whatsoever that I see. It did get everything under the trailer so I will have to check all that. It looks like maybe the camper was parked on a slight incline when the tide got it; It still got the entire floor wet, but it looks like it was the deepest (2"-3") at the front and barely got the back at all, hence the reason it didn't actually get into the breaker panel. If the converter is directly at floor-level though, that might cause problems.


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## Aldakoopa (May 19, 2012)

Ok, after thinking on it, you guys know best... while it would be an interesting project to make it into a "small mobile home", it's not really necessary and would just take more time and money to complete. I think I'm just going to put in my fridge, and try and fix the converter and A/C, put in LED bulbs like has been suggested, and just try to keep my power usage down. After looking at all I'd be using, I think 30A would be enough if I'm careful. The bathroom would be nice if it were bigger, but I can use it just fine like it is. The bunk bed area can just be used for storage, I don't have mattresses for it anyway, it can just be like extra closet space. So, I won't be able to do much to it this weekend, but hopefully I can see if the A/C works and get the converter working, then it will pretty will be ready to move into. But still, thanks for your help and suggestions!


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## Aldakoopa (May 19, 2012)

Just a little update since I haven't really been on here. I have pulled out the carpet, have been cleaning it, and am getting ready to fix it up. Only thing I'm going to change is the refrigerator, and my fridge will fit right into place with minor modification. I found out where the power converter is and cleaned up some corrosion on the contacts and it works just fine, and I spun the motor to the A/C by hand and it broke loose and spins freely now (it must not have been used in a long, long time) and the A/C works nice and feels good. Once again, thanks for your help!


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