# Fuel Prices! I Mean Really?



## docks5 (Oct 4, 2006)

This is just to vent, but $3.75 for diesel?!....I mean really. The local Chevron owner (here in Pearland) told me that its supposed to top $4.00 per gallon in about two weeks....Were seriously considering selling our camper just because its to expensive to go anywhere, which bites, since we bought the thing to get our kiddos away from the tv/wii/computer etc....This isall very frustrating....


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Complain to your Senator and Reps, demand drilling off of California, Florida and Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, problem is its going to be 10 years before you see a drop of oil for those locations. Then tell them to allow imports of Bio-Diesel and cut the subsidy, we are doing this to ourselves! This country has no energy policy.


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Heck, it's been $3.99/ gallon here for a week or so, and just went up to $4.09 a few miles up the road........

I haven't even started my truck for almost a month.

Steve


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## 3athlete (May 14, 2006)

It's almost $4.00 here too, Tim actually talked about getting a seasonal next year if the prices keep going up.

YIKES!


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## rmalouin (Mar 3, 2008)

3.85 in Mass.

Hey, remember when gas was 19 cents a gallon and you were making 100 bucks a week and doing ok....

This is the cycle of our world, prices go up and then you income goes up this is inflation which we have not seen in a few years.

I can remember being in Europe in the 70's and I was paying 6 dollars a liter for gas.

The US has no energy policy so we are at the mercy of the market, and with the dollar worth next near to nothing, gas which is a world comodity will cost us much more. Expect to see 4 bucks by summer and then it will stablilze as our economy starts to come back.

It takes time, it bites but it will stablize, don't go selling the camper and truck, just camp closer to home.

JMHO


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

I usually don't recommend reading material -- but if you get a moment take a look at life after the oil crash . it is a pretty fascinating read and does a good job expalining why in a couple of years you will be saying things to your kids about "How you use to pay on 4.00 a gallon for fuel instead of 8.00 or higher"..

Unfortunately the price of gas will not come down - and wil most probably continue to rise.

But take a quick look at that website -- kinda scary ...


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## battalionchief3 (Jun 27, 2006)

I dont want to look........im too scared.


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## rmalouin (Mar 3, 2008)

That's some scary stuff..... sad but we are an oil based country/world

With NAFTA and other things our nation has sent all of the manufacturing jobs elsewhere. We have a consumer/oil based economy. I don't think it is the end-of-days yet, but it most likely is about 15 - 20 years away.
There is very little anyone can do to stop it either.

So, better pay the money keep the rig and go camping while you still can.....


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## webeopelas (Mar 11, 2006)

Now don't get all depressed. I'll just get really fat eating fried foods and make my own fuel.


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## raynardo (Jun 8, 2007)

On the way kayaking yesterday, I drove past a Shell station where diesel was $3.9999 a gallon. But when I returned from kayaking the price at that same station had gone up to $4.0999! Fortunately I didn't need any fuel. I keep hoping that it will somehow correct itself, and that diesel will once again be less expensive than regular gas - heck diesel is cheaper to make than gasoline!

This price gouging not only effects those of us that love RV'ing, but pity the poor truckers - prices will have to increase on everything we buy because everything you buy is trucked!

On a positive note: I paid off my Outback today. With interest rates falling on savings, and my OB's loan interest rate wasn't, it was time to bite the bullet and pay it off. I'm fortunate I can do this, I know.


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## bpedrotty (Nov 3, 2006)

Aren't our current fuel costs driven more by our lack of refining capacity than the crude and light crude per barrel costs? We've got such a strong environmental lobby established that none of the oil companies can build new refineries. While the web site cited was an interesting read, I'd be curious to see where some of their key data came from. It is always risky when the primary experts are from within the industry that stands to profit most from the predicted calamity. This is the first place I have seen the "peak oil" concept identified as a causal factor for the current domestic oil situation. I am certainly not an expert in oil or economics, but I am a little surprised this is not a more widely reported phenomenon. Everything I have read seems to indicate the refining side is the bigger issue here in the US and that seems to be anecdotally supported by the rate of change in fuel costs vastly outstripping the rate of change in other petrochemical industires.

Don't know... In the end, I'll fire up the 'ol diesel and get myself to work, burn 17000lbs of kerosense and drive the 'ol diesel home. Yep, it's costing a lot, and that stinks, but if I change my habits in response to high fuel costs; aren't I just letting the oil companies win?







Oh wait, wrong argument...


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Poppa Bear said:


> 3.85 in Mass.
> 
> Hey, remember when gas was 19 cents a gallon and you were making 100 bucks a week and doing ok....
> 
> This is the cycle of our world, prices go up and then you income goes up this is inflation which we have not seen in a few years.


I would agree if things were more proportional.......Gas is now 20 times that .19 a gallon, and the wages sure haven't increased as much...........

Funny how inflation affects the costs of things, but wages don't ever inflate as much.

Kind of like when you worked for a company for 20 years, started at $2.10 /hr, wprked your way to $14/hr, and they hire a new guy fresh out of school for $25/hr, because that's what he wanted to make...........no slap in the face there.


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## fourwalls (Sep 21, 2007)

Diesel hit $4 a gal In south east Ohio today. We are considering a place in the woods for our 5er here on the farm. At least the phone wont reach there. and fuel for the foot power is cheep.


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## W Podboy (Jan 4, 2007)

I paid $4.14 for the diesel just outsdie of Barstow Calf. It was $3.94 2 days before when I was headed out for a project in North Az.

Prices in Utha and Az were around $3.84...

Glad the company paid for the fuel !!!!!!

I think I am going to put a tank underground and buy it in bulk so I get a better price.... bet my neighbors will love that not to mention the EPA

Wes


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

The reason: last year this time oil was $60 per barrel. Now it is $102. That price spread is worth about $1.00 a gallon at retail.


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Anywhere from $3.49 - $3.79 around here. Glad I don't have to fill up but once every couple of weeks. If push comes to shove, I'll cut down somewhere else.

Mark


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Glad I work from home. I fill up the Suburban about once every 6 weeks @ $100 (or more) a pop.


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## Rubrhammer (Nov 27, 2006)

I read 2 days ago that the refineries were at 85.4 % capacity last month and that gasoline supplies were high. That is why OPEc wouldn't increase production. This is simply a matter of manipulation of the market by the oil companies. It makes me sick!
Bob


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## fspieg (Jul 31, 2006)

W Podboy said:


> I paid $4.14 for the diesel just outsdie of Barstow Calf. It was $3.94 2 days before when I was headed out for a project in North Az.
> 
> Prices in Utha and Az were around $3.84...
> 
> ...


When the boss tells you there's no pay raises this year due to inflation and the sagging economy then you will know who paid for it.


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## Northern Wind (Nov 21, 2006)

It's about $4.40 a gallon in Peterborough, and earlier this week I paid almost $5.00 up north and that's a US gallon, I already did the conversion!
It's going to get very expensive!! Maybe doing a lot of camping in the driveway this year!

Steve


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## Lady Di (Oct 28, 2005)

The oil companies are making record profits. What does that tell us?

If we are subsidizing them, we are paying twice. First with our taxes, and then at the pump.


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## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

50 MPG

Unfortunately it cannot tow an Outback. It doesn't do well in the snow either.


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## Lady Di (Oct 28, 2005)

Yesterday I drove to Harrisburg, 50-60 miles one way. Got a little more than 50mpg with my Prius.

Unfortunately it can't tow the OB either.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

I paid $4.20 / gal on Friday to fill up the SD. Good thing i only have to drive it to tow the Outback or if I get tired of driving the Jeep.
Maybe Ill trade the truck and TT in for a Class A and a Prius.


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

too funny, I was logging on to start a post that Rick went to Chevron today and the guy told him it's going to $4 gallon. Our truck hasn't moved in 2 weeks. It may never move again. Driveway camping is starting to have an appeal.


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

"prices go up and then you income goes up" - Well, there's a little problem there. My income is going nowhere, as I am retired. My investments are slipping some; and it ain't up.

"Kind of like when you worked for a company for 20 years, started at $2.10 /hr, wprked your way to $14/hr, and they hire a new guy fresh out of school for $25/hr, because that's what he wanted to make...........no slap in the face there." - Well,of course not. Back in '73 I was trying to get a raise from $4.00 to $4.50. They told me if I didn't like it, I could go on down the road, so I did. Office manager called me a couple of months later and told me they hired a guy at $6.00 to do my work - and a couple weeks after that, they hired a SECOND guy at $6.00. Look at all they saved.

When we arrived in Rockport last October, fuel was $2.89. Now it's $3.79.

Sluggo


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## ramartina (Feb 16, 2008)

Rubrhammer said:


> I read 2 days ago that the refineries were at 85.4 % capacity last month and that gasoline supplies were high. That is why OPEc wouldn't increase production. This is simply a matter of manipulation of the market by the oil companies. It makes me sick!
> Bob


Wall street Journal did an article this week outlining how over 25 dollars of the $105 a barrel is accounted for by speculators....its futures commodity trading that is spiking these prices, not the oil companies. The prices totally defy the market place right now.


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## jozway (Jan 28, 2008)

Paid $3.79 in Albany, Oregon and thought that was high. Quess i should be happy sounds alot lower then the rest. Got 12 miles to the gallon pulling the outback.


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## bradnbecca (Feb 12, 2007)

Fat Tony said:


> I read 2 days ago that the refineries were at 85.4 % capacity last month and that gasoline supplies were high. That is why OPEc wouldn't increase production. This is simply a matter of manipulation of the market by the oil companies. It makes me sick!
> Bob


Wall street Journal did an article this week outlining how over 25 dollars of the $105 a barrel is accounted for by speculators....its futures commodity trading that is spiking these prices, not the oil companies. The prices totally defy the market place right now.
[/quote]

that is absolutely correct- these prices have no rational basis. Apparently, a lot of the people who were in the stock market bailed when it started going south, and are pumping money into commodities. In other words, we are paying a bunch of money to a bunch of people who don't produce anything except money for themselves and their friends. Gold is at record prices also, for the same reason.

The rich get richer and the rest of us are their porta potties.

I hope there is a special place in hell for the people who engineered and perpetuate this scam.


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

Last night I passed one of the gas stations right off 95 and Diesel was $4.09. I put fuel in on Friday in MA the sign said 3.77 and hour later it was 3.89 but the pumps still read 3.77 so I filled up. At least that tank will last me until April. I'm thinking of looking into other forms of diesel fuels. I keep saying its still better MPG than the 8.1 ever got.

John


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## Tyvekcat (Aug 28, 2007)

Diesel here in SWVA, $3.89 at the local Sheetz.
Grrrrrrrrrrr.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

I looked at those new VW Rabbits today.....


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## webeopelas (Mar 11, 2006)

Yeah, but around $16000 for a new car still buys alot of fuel. But then I'm lucky in that I only drive 2 mi most days to the commuter lot and then car pool in using other peoples fuel.


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

Some of the angst out there is misplaced. Yes the oil companies are making record profits (function of volume and cost), but they are not OPEC, and OPEC is the one that has us "over a barrel" so to speak. When 66% of your oil comes from foreign sources, you are turning over control of your fuel prices to our friends in Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. In addition, the US has not built a new refinery in 30+ years; the enviromental lobby and their left-leaning friends in Washington have taken care of that. We are also limited by that same team from tapping our own resources in the Arctic and off the Florida and California coasts. While we are ignoring the resources off Florida's Gulf coast, China is partnering with Cuba to drill and tap these same, massive deposits. We can't have it, but we'll let the Chinese and the Cubans have it. Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?









There is a LOT of good info on the fuel industry from the government's Energy Information Agency. Here is their page on diesel fuel prices: EIA Primer on Diesel Fuel

There is a section on "Why Diesel is Higher than Gasoline" that is pretty interesting. Essentially world-wide demand for diesel is driving up the cost, along with a fixed capacity to produce the product.

Products from a barrel of crude:










Cost At the Pump for Diesel, 2006 Average:


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

I read that part of the problem with high fuel costs is the value of the US dollar. Apparently, oil is traded only in USD. Since the dollar is way down, the purchase of oil by foreign countries is a bargain. So, as long our economy sucks (which was largely brought on by the idiots who can't read a contract and who don't know how much they can afford to go into debt), then we will all suffer.


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## daves700 (Jun 12, 2006)

3.89 here .... Wish I would have not bought the S/D and keep the 1/2 ton gasser


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## dougdogs (Jul 31, 2004)

Y-Guy said:


> Complain to your Senator and Reps, demand drilling off of California, Florida and Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, problem is its going to be 10 years before you see a drop of oil for those locations. Then tell them to allow imports of Bio-Diesel and cut the subsidy, we are doing this to ourselves! This country has no energy policy.


It is not just this, it also has a lot to due with the (very) weak dollar


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## dougdogs (Jul 31, 2004)

Sayonara said:


> I looked at those new VW Rabbits today.....


We bought one back in January, and so far we love it!! Can't beat all the standards this car comes with for just 16K

It is our new "chase" vehicle


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## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Here at the Brain residence, we have taken a serious look at our energy policy and made some drastic changes over the last couple years. No, we did not buy a Prius. We have the same cars we had then but we've become more aware of the use of them and realized we do a lot of unnecessary travel with them. So, I now telecommute (after coordinating with the boss et al) as often as four times a week (sometimes five), we plan our grocery buying trips so we have fewer runs to the grocery store, we postpone some trips to combine them into one, that sort of thing. Now, you might think this had little effect on the bottom line but you'd be wrong! We have cut our gas purchases by more than 50%! My truck now sits in the garage most of the time and we use the smaller, more efficient car when possible. I've literally gone for a week at a time when the truck doesn't get started!

Not everyone can do this of course, but my point was that I found I could do it when I tried and hadn't even contemplated it before fuel got so expensive and the environmental concerns became front page news. It's pretty nice on the pocket book too. In the last six months I've put less than 3000 miles on the truck. I used to put roughly 9-10,000 in the same time. Wear and tear on the truck and gas together makes a big savings; using current mileage reimbursement rates of $0.55 per mile sums up to over $3000 - that's a nice little vacation with the Outback simply by conserving as much as possible.

Now I may not be able to continue telecommuting but I will when I can. Fuel prices will continue to go up and up and up some more and until someone does something for alternative fuel sources. We will play these games for a long time, might as well settle in for the long haul and make the best of it.

One strategy we are contemplating for camping is the purchase of a small (1/2 acre) lot up in the woods north of Cle Elum Washington. We could build a metal building on the lot and park the Outback in it during the summer months. When we want to go camping, we simply haul it out of the small steel building and set up camp. The still maintains the flexibility of road trips with the camper but provides us with a 'cabin' in the woods. Oh, we found a nice lot or two that cost about what the Outback did - not too big a price to pay.

BBB


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

Not for nuthin, but . . . .

I get about 7 miles per gallon when towing the Outback. So, a few weeks ago, if I went to Lake George (240 miles) while fuel was $3.25 per gallon, it would have cost me about $111.00 for the trip up. I stay there for two weeks. If I go up when fuel is $4.00 per gallon, it will cost about $136.00 for the trip up. That's a $25.00 difference. Granted, that's 25 bucks each way, but for fifty bucks more, I'm going to Lake George for two weeks.

If, two weeks ago I camped at Stokes State Forest (64 miles - $3.25 per gallon) and it cost me $29.00, and this week at $4.00 per gallon it costs me $36.00 - I'm going to Stokes for the extra seven bucks. I know it keeps spiraling upward, but I've never even considered fuel costs for this, and I don't think I ever will. If it costs me double what it costs now, I still think I won't let that keep me from camping. Now, the cost of college is a whole different story, but fodder for a different discussion.

I consider the question about fuel costs to go camping in the Outback the same as when people ask me what it costs to run my boat. I don't know and I don't care. And I am by no means rich or even close to being well off. I would put my family in the lower middle class category, income-wise. I put a hundred bucks in the tank and enjoy the boat. When it needs more, I put more in it.

Don't let the difference of a couple of hundred dollars per year dissuade you from camping.

My two cents.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

> We could build a metal building on the lot and park the Outback in it during the summer months.


We did that! I built a storage building for the RV about 4 years ago on 36 acres of pasture land I have in Idaho. I got the a-model building from US Buildings. At that time, the building cost $18,378, complete. I learned a lot putting up that building. All-in-all, it was a pleasant, rewarding experience. If you are thinking of putting up something like this, contact me, as I have a wealth of info to pass on, which will make things easier.

I am very happy with the building! It's not particularly pretty, but it is stout as hell and should last a hundred years or more. It has already withstood 90 mph winds and has been through three tough winters. It is tight enough such that it is virtually mouse-proof, which was one of the goals.


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## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Vdub,
Well, I was thinking of something slightly smaller... still, I'm sure you can give me some good tips. I think my main concern will be snow. How did you decide on the type of building? It looks like it faces east? That puts the back of the building towards the prevailing winds?

I remember watching the thread where you put the front on the building. I was impressed then and I am still impressed. Man, those Palouse wind storms must be something else!


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

It would take any amount of snow you might have a CleElum. Yes, it faces east -- winds typically come from the southwest or northwest. But, it's not in the Palouse -- it's in central Idaho about 4 miles from the Salmon River (about a 100 miles south of the Palouse). The Salmon River canyon is what whips up the strong winds. The winds this year were particularly unusual and did a lot of damage to structures that had survived for a hundred years or more. My building came through unscathed (but I was plenty nervous!).


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## ALASKA PFLOCK (Jun 24, 2007)

Up here in Alaska we are at $3.20 in Anchorage and $3.27 in the valley. If only Clinton didn't line item veto Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, we wouldn't be dealing with this issue!







I know several guys that work up on the North Slope and state time after time that the animals aren't affected by their presence, rigs, noise, etc. In fact they face stricter rules and regulations than anywhere else in the world reguarding oil and vehicles. You will find more oil, transmission fluid, etc. in your local grocery store parking lot than up there on the slope. They are even required to stop and shut off their vehicles when the caribou are near the road! If they don't follow these rules, they are sent home and more than likely can't come back! I think that all the legislators on Capitol Hill should take a trip up to the North Slope and see for themselves before they vote on the subject!


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Moosegut, I agree with all that and have thought the same myself.

However, another way to look it as if I'm considering three of those $50-$75 additional costs, that's a whole lot of camping closer to home.

It's not going to change the amount I go camping one bit, but I am adjusting the distance I go to do it.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Tis true! BP flew DW and I up to the North Slope back in '90 and the place was absolutely spotless. Actually, cleaner than most homes. The caribou didn't mind our presence one bit. Why we aren't drilling in ANWR is just plain dumb. And, why the building of new refineries is being blocked by environmental issues is even more silly.


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## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

Diesel here in the islands is $4.09 today!! Actually filled up at $3.95 this morning heading into town, and the price was up when we came back through around 3pm.


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## ColoradoChip (Jan 21, 2008)

Moosegut said:


> Not for nuthin, but . . . .
> 
> I get about 7 miles per gallon when towing the Outback. So, a few weeks ago, if I went to Lake George (240 miles) while fuel was $3.25 per gallon, it would have cost me about $111.00 for the trip up. I stay there for two weeks. If I go up when fuel is $4.00 per gallon, it will cost about $136.00 for the trip up. That's a $25.00 difference. Granted, that's 25 bucks each way, but for fifty bucks more, I'm going to Lake George for two weeks.
> 
> ...


I'm with you, Moose gut. No matter how high prices go, it will still be cheaper to drive and camp than frl, rent a car, and get a hotel room. Of course, it's also much more enjoyable! By the way, I just had a friend in from Copenhagen last week, and he was amazed at how cheap our gas is. He said that they pay about $2.50 a LITER! That's over $9.00 a gallon! I've spent alot of time in Europe, and it's always been that way. I was a bit surprised to find out that the weak dollar hadn't made the cost difference between Europe and here smaller.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Ok, BBB, I need to ask. How did you figure out the building was facing east??

John


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## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

vdub said:


>


John,
The shadow is on the right side of the building in the second image. That puts the South side to the left (where the sun will be to make a shadow on the right side). That makes the picture taken from the east side of the building. The first photo was taken in the summer from the west end of the building.

BBB


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