# Outback 28krs (kargoroo) Or Kz Frontier 2809pqs-f



## JRO (Oct 12, 2006)

I'd sure like to know why you decided to purchase the Karoroo 28KRS instead of the KZ Frontier 2809PQS-F (LINK) with the cargo garage option? They appear very much alike. Is there someone here that has done all the research and is willing to share their knowledge?

This is what a KZ sales person told me:
1.) The steel rams with rack and rack and pinion movement are intigrated directly into the 10" I beam chassis built by Leland. No outside support is needed at all, and the room can move in and out without any rails or support. Our bed area has 1000lb carrying capicty, therefore no sagging or movement from the room while in use. (*patented design by KZ). The engineer who designed Frontier first...invented it the right way the first time. Being patented, could not take his design with him when he went to Keystone. Outbacks bed capacity 250 lbs.
2.) Gel coat cap with 7 gal.dual propane tanks hidden underneath. Outback...5 gal. tanks mounted on the outside.
3.) 2 year bummper to bumper warranty right down to radios, microwave, etc....no "grey area" or mincing of words in their warranty coverage.
4.) 7 time winner of DSI award put out by independent company for all RV manufacturers. ( you may see this and the other recipients on the above linked we site for KZ)
5.) Our cabinets are solid oak fronts where most of the wear and tare occurs, with baltic birch micro-lam solid wood everywhere else. NO CHIP BOARD!
The price you would be paying for my product is $24,560.00 with no trade and including the battery and starter kit.​
Of course... They think the KZ is a better unit.
I don't know up from down and my Outback sales person is not a "details" kind of guy.

Any thoughts will help my decision.


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

I wish I could help you but I can't.

Did go to KZers.com for help..Alas, there ISN"T one.









Mark


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## CamperDC (Oct 30, 2003)

I cannot speak to all those issues but I can tell you that the dealer wants to sell you a unit off of his lot and will steer you in that direction. Of course it seemed from your post that you are aware of that. I did a comparison of these two models back when I made my purchase and I have never once regretted getting the Outback. What really made the Outback the clear choie for us was when the DW looked at it the very first time her response was "This is real nice







". Mind you, all I could ever get from her on any other unit we looked at was "this looks like a camper







." My wife is really into interior design and she really liked the interior of the Outback because It just felt more like home then anything else she looked at. Not a hugh deal but very important to her.

Now as far as the patented rear slide, I have never seen that as a big deal. My slide has worked without any problems for the last three camping seasons and it only takes a minute or two to pull it out. Your dealer also has a problem with his numbers. The 250lb number applies to the bunks and not the rear slide. Both my wife and I use the rear slide and I am close to 250 on my own. I may be wrong here, but I think the Outback has a higher load rating on the bunks then the KZ.

7lb vs. 5lb tanks are not an issue with me however we do not use much propane. In fact I only need to fill them once a year or less.

2 year vs. 1 year warranty, well KZ is one up on that one. I cannot argue that point. However, I had all the minor issues fixed under my 1 year warranty and I have not had any issues since.

DSI award? dont know what that is so I have no comment.

Not had any problems with our cabinets, in fact we like them becasue the are lightweight, white and easy to clean.

Go to an Outback dealer if you have not already and check out the OB. Of course that dealer will try to steer you in his direction as well. Make sure you look very hard at the floorplan and how it will fit your family. Will you spend more time inside or outside? Will your children bring friends? Would you rather not have to use the couch and dinette for sleeping so you can use them in the evening and the morning while others are sleeping? Is a couch slide enough or do you need a super slide. Just some things to consider.

Look them both over and go with the unit that you feel is a better fit for you and your family. Either way get out there and start creating memories.

Good luck with whatever unit you go with and Happy Camping.

DC


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## mskyoutback (Jul 27, 2004)

mswalt said:


> I wish I could help you but I can't.
> 
> Did go to KZers.com for help..Alas, there ISN"T one.
> 
> ...


http://groups.msn.com/GoinKZ/yourwebpage.msnw

Not as good as Outbackers.com, but might be useful.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

JRO said:


> Our bed area has 1000lb carrying capicty, therefore no sagging or movement from the room while in use. (*patented design by KZ). The engineer who designed Frontier first...invented it the right way the first time. Being patented, could not take his design with him when he went to Keystone. *Outbacks bed capacity 250 lbs.*


Really?








I guess we are lucky, because our bed should have collapsed two years ago if that was the case!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

PDX_Doug said:


> Our bed area has 1000lb carrying capicty, therefore no sagging or movement from the room while in use. (*patented design by KZ). The engineer who designed Frontier first...invented it the right way the first time. Being patented, could not take his design with him when he went to Keystone. *Outbacks bed capacity 250 lbs.*


Really?








I guess we are lucky, because our bed should have collapsed two years ago if that was the case!









Happy Trails,
Doug
[/quote]
Ditto. We've had the whole fam in the bed and that's about 800 pounds if you include the dog - and he was there too.


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

I think we'd have more problems if I needed a bed to hold 1,000 pounds.









My wife only weighs a little more than 100 (







?) and I'm not that close to 900 lbs.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Misinformed salesman. The bunks are rated for 250 lbs, not the rear slide









Actually I am glad he was unable to take the patent with him. That bumper going out with the rear slide gets in the way sometimes.









As for 1000 lbs capacity. Its not sleeping weight, its in case of the 'Wild Thang'


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## MaeJae (May 12, 2005)

tdvffjohn said:


> Misinformed salesman. The bunks are rated for 250 lbs, not the rear slide
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OMG...I don't care who you are, that's funny!!!







.









OK...back to the original subject.
It's simple...
An Outback is an Outback, and well...
A KZ is not!!!

MaeJae

p.s. was this topic a "hit and run?"


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Plus there are several dealers on the internet that will sell a 28krs out the door for under 20k. Lakeshorerv.com and lichtsinn.com are a couple for instance. i bought my 23krs in aug for 17.5k out the door with battery and propane filled. I bought mine at lichtsinn in Ia.

Carey


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## tripphammer (Oct 3, 2006)

I looked a both. The craftmanship didn't seem to be as good in the KZ. Poorer table design, toilet and bed support to be a couple of them. As a certified kitchen designer, I can tell you that both were the inexpensive (aka "cheap") version. Over 80% of the cabinets installed in regular homes today are furniture grade "chip" board. Also I paid over $5000 less than what you were quoted.

I am very glad that I bought the 28KRS.

Take Care,
Tripp


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

JRO said:


> This is what a KZ sales person told me:


This is what he was actually telling you:

"bla bla bla bla bla"
















Go for the Outback! We love our 28krs


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## mandy1 (Mar 26, 2006)

The rear slide mechanism on the KZ while very unique and quite functional also gets in the way. With the Outback version you can put things, such as bikes and chairs easily under it to keep them out of the rain. Also, the Outback version allows more room for clearance of low lying objects at the rear of the pad, such as tree stumps, with the KZ slide design the entire slide zone must be free from all obstructions from side to side and as far back as the bed slides out. 
I believe the Outback also has bigger tank capacities, fresh, balck, grey and Lpg.

The two year warranty could come in handy, but it ultimately comes down to want you believe is the best
unit for you and your family after considering all of the information at hand.


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## hyewalt34 (May 9, 2004)

"room for clearance of low lying objects at the rear of the pad, such as tree stumps, with the KZ slide design the entire slide zone must be free from all obstructions from side to side and as far back as the bed slides out."

This would kill it for me.








I can't tell you how many spaces I've been in where I'm backed up over the end of the space!

Walter


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## Scott and Jamie (Aug 27, 2006)

We looked at the Kz's (thought they were very cheap looking and built), Looked at alot of various camp trailers.....spent endless nights searching the web.....Driving too many times 75+ miles oneway to look at all of the different TT we could find....Then we went and purchased our Outback

Scott


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## MaeJae (May 12, 2005)

We have been to a â€œtieredâ€ CG where you essentially back up to a hill.
We really had no idea the lay out of the CG would be like this. My 
friend made the reservations for all of us.
With a KZ you canâ€™t do this. If you camp in uneven areas or like to 
â€œboondockâ€ this may become a problem for you.

Although Outbackers LOVE







to modify their campers(home away from home) We do this to enhance our camping experience. 
I donâ€™t believe I have ever heard of an Outbacker modifying their camper
out of necessity â€¦ I think the mechanics of the KZ slide bed is
a poor design that for me (and it sounds like most other Outbackers)
would become a nuisance. 
If I had to be too choosy on the lay-of-the-land what camp-site I picked or 
where I camped I donâ€™t think I would much enjoy it.

We have had this same discussion before. If you do a search you
will come up with the same answers on this post as well as many other comments.

With an Outback â€¦ â€œNo Worries!â€









MaeJae


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## luv2camp (Mar 9, 2006)

We also had our camper choices narrowed down to the KZ and the Outback front bunk models. Obviously, the Outback won and here are the reasons why:

1. There is NO counter space in the KZ kitchens.
2. Having to place slide rails for the Outback was a slight deterent, but I REALLY wanted the space to be able to put chairs and bikes under it to free up space under our HUGE awning. We started with a Pop-Up and just LOVE that storage area unde the bed.
3. We also camp in places that I end up having the bed over boulders or other such obstructions So we would not have fit in a lot more sites with the KZ.
4. The OUtback had the biggest awning - covering both doors in our case. We easily put our picnic table under our awning and still have room to lounge. 
5. I didn't like the lack of headroom in the front bunk room of the KZ because of the pass thru storage area. An adult can stand and change in the bunk room.
6. When we were looking, the Outback had the dinette on the slide instead of the sofa. The sofa was placed near the TV cabinet. It was the other way around for the KZ. Personally, I find it easier to fold a sofa flat than a dinnette - to slide the bed in. It looks like KZ came around to Outbacks thinking on this one.

On a plus side for the KZ - I did like the sliding wood door for the bunk room and I liked the sink out of the bathroom in the bunk room model, but I don't miss either of these things in my Outback.

Bottom line... I do love my Outback and this has been a wonderful community.


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