# New Ford Twin Turbo 6.4l



## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

Just thought I would stir the diesel war pot some more









Ford vs duramax video

Ford vs Cummins video


----------



## Northern Wind (Nov 21, 2006)

Even with a 5 minute headstart they can't win! (okay maybe not 5 min.) but still!!


----------



## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

I wonder why they had to use a F450 to beat a 3500???? Why not a F350????

Gary


----------



## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Why aren't they comparing apples to apples???

They are comparing the new twin turbo Powerstroke to the old diesel engines.

Cummins just stepped into a 6.7 liter and the Duramax is all new also....

They should show it in a couple months when the turbos fail on the Ford..


----------



## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

Big deal. They are comparing an F450 (4.10's) vs an unknown year GM 3500 (3.73's), ditto with the Dodge 3500.

Now Ford has TWO turbos to blow.







That should be interesting - wonder if they'll go at once, or one at a time?

Sluggo


----------



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

lol Everyone is getting freaked out about Twin turbos lol Same as the truckers did when Cat went to twin turbos in 03..

Here is what has been learned... The twin turbos are only for emissions... Nothing else..One turbo spools up at low rpm, the other at higher rpm. So there is less initial smoke(emissions). It does not guve you more boost, it does not give you more power. What it is, is a very complex, high tech, high maintenance system.

In the Cats, they have been having trouble with the 2nd late turbo.. Cost? $4000.00 Knowone is impressed.

If you research this twin turbo design, youll see that the others( Dmax and Cummins) are using exhaust gas to cool combustion, to lower emissions. The new IH/Ford is using air. The twin turbos creates a blow thru design. Its all good in the R & D labs, but so far on the highway its very questionable technology. If you have noticed on the 08's, they are pulling the air from the outside on the right fender, thats because the turbos use lots of air.. This design will make your air filter expensive and a vital part to the system. If the filter isnt maintained properly, the turbos overhest lowering there life.

Everyone thinks two is better than one in everything... lol.. But for longevity, so far in the Cats, they are a high maintenance short lived design.

Yes the Ford is going to beat the Dmax, and the Cummins.. Even the new 07 up models. But if you want to mod up your Cummins or Dmax youll be able to keep right up with em.

The 6.4 is a great design and for its size makes awesome power. Ford has done 10m miles of testing on this engine. Its the most tested new engine to date. Off the showroom floor it will eat all the others lunch!
Out there in the real world its success will need to be proven with most.. The 6.4 is a very high tech design, comparred to the others. In the past High tech means short lived...

Cool videos, but I kinda figured that... My question? What will maintence costs be? Who wins that battle.

Carey


----------



## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

I'm just saying that they are comparing apples and oranges....

The F450 has a 14500 GVWR, 33000 lb CGVWR....
Is available with 4.88 ratios

The GM 3500 has a 11,400 GVWR, 23500 CGVWR
Only offers a 3.73 ratios

It is about the same as hooking up the F450 to a 24000 pound trailer and a Kenworth tractor to a 24000 pound trailer to see which one pulls better......

Let put the F350 against a GM3500 and a Dodge3500......I am sure you will find they all match up pretty close.

Gary


----------



## redmonaz (Jul 24, 2006)

Too bad it is in a Ford.


----------



## H2oSprayer (Aug 5, 2006)

So what does this all mean? Are we supposed to be racing from one CG to the next?








As stated above, let's wait till they have been out for a few months to see how it preforms with 1,000,000's of miles behind it. We will be upgrading our TV late summer / early fall, and one thing I like about the DMax is the noise (or lack there of) that it generates. It's not much louder then a gasser. We are hoping that when they roll out the 2008 Suburban, it will have a diesel as an option.


----------



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Fire44 said:


> I'm just saying that they are comparing apples and oranges....
> 
> The F450 has a 14500 GVWR, 33000 lb CGVWR....
> Is available with 4.88 ratios
> ...


Actually the ford f450 weighs more than a gm 3500.. Its pretty equal. 
The ford will whip a dmax in a race. I'm sorry..

The Dmax makes max torque at 1600 rpm thus only needing 3.73 gears to keep the engine in peak torque at cruise.

The Dodge also makes max torque at 1600 rpms thus only needing 3.73 gears to keep the engine at peak torque. at cruise..

They(GM/Dodge) dont need any other diff ratios....

FORD does! It makes peak torque at 2000 rpms then needing 4.10+ gears to keep the engine at peak torque at cruise.

So for a ford the 4.10 gears are the same as gm, and dodge's 3.73..

Engines that spin fewer rpms last longer! Drivetrains that spin fewer rpms last longer too...

Off the line the 4.10+ gears will help ford to whip the gm/dodge 3.73. Physics...

Carey


----------



## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

I'm gonna go test drive the 6.4 Ford Monday, just for the hell of it - no way I can afford the price tag though (unless I get 2 more jobs)


----------



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Just for fun.. Here are the curb weights of a f450 and f350

F450 Dually 2x4 8290 lbs
F450 Dually 4x4 8687 lbs

F350 Dually 2x4 6742 lbs
F350 Dually 4x4 7227 lbs

Compared to a dodge/gm 7000 lbs, the ford is dragging another 13-1700 lbs up this hill.. Thats saying something!

Carey


----------



## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

It's surprising that anyone would put a turbocharger on an engine if they are so fragile. But so far, mine's working great.

Bill


----------



## davidcur (Jul 8, 2006)

Northern Wind said:


> Even with a 5 minute headstart they can't win! (okay maybe not 5 min.) but still!!


 Because they are advertising a F450
They are hoping is saves there ass, ford lost 12.7 billion in revenue last year
wait till toyota comes out with there Diesel It`s going to kick OUR ASS
we deserve it Ford is brutal whwn it comes to Honoring warranties, recalls etc...


----------



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

cookie9933 said:


> It's surprising that anyone would put a turbocharger on an engine if they are so fragile. But so far, mine's working great.
> 
> Bill


They are not too fragile, but they are a weak link. Most should last a hundred or so thousand.. My semi is on its 3rd in 710,000 miles which is average. It costs about 2000 for a rebuilt one in my truck.

The exhaust flows thru them, so they run very hot... If the vehicle tows alot, the turbo will wont last as long. Heat is the killer..

Just make sure you idle the engine a few mins, after working it hard before shutting it off.. This helpls the most. Shutting them off when they are really hot is hard on the bearings, and oil.

Carey


----------



## Dan V (May 21, 2006)

Everyone has their preferences or loyalties , Chevy , Ford , Dodge or whatever and that is fine . I personally think the videos are bunk and don't really show much , a couple of local docals with a video camera and a Ford fetish ! If there was any kind of a race going on you would have seen some major smoke - racing , towing at a 15 degree incline . 
Never seen a Dodge under load that did not leave a major smoke screen , makes me really doubt the videos authenticity !

While it is very possible the Ford is the power king at the moment , I will believe that when I see a unbiased comparison test done by a accredited testing facilty / tester .


----------



## Lazybonz(aka Bill) (Sep 23, 2006)

Well this one will always be cause for alot of fun debate...Ford, GM or Dodge.
I just wonder how the new Ford 6.4 will hold up. Ford lost millions on the lousey 6.0 diesel and now is suing International to recoup some of the losses. It has really hurt Fords reputation in the truck market too.

Toyota will really kick the Big 3's collective butts if it gets into the HD diesel truck game.
I just hope the new 07 Chevy Duramax LBZ I just bought holds up long 6term!








We shall see.


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

As a current owner of the infamous IH/Ford 6.0L VT345/Powerstroke, I would be just a bit leary of running out and buying another Blue Oval. Then you look at GM's problems with overheating on some of the '05s, and I'm sure Dodge has had it's problems, but most likely that was with the tranny's'.

I think it is safe to say that all truck manufacturer's, even Toyota and Nissan have their problems.

I will be watching the 6.4 closely, and see how they hold up before I run out and buy one.

Tim


----------



## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

Turn your volume up on the video, all you hear is a diesel idling, it is a fixed tape you do not hear the sounds of either truck giving it the gas. The ford would make a huge racket and you would also hear the duramax. The idling sound definitely isn't a duramax, not sure what engine it is. Same engine idle on the for/chevy and ford/dodge. I know my chevy 2500 with a 10K fifth wheel leaves my cousins f350 7.3L with cold air/4"exhaust and chip set at the toll gate and mine is stock.

Rigged commercials just kills sales, ford is trying to trick people into thinking they might have a good diesel again.


----------



## Scott and Jamie (Aug 27, 2006)

nynethead said:


> Rigged commercials just kills sales, ford is trying to trick people into thinking they might have a good diesel again.


Hmmmm could be a amature video. Never saw anything in it that siad it was a ford commercial.









Scott


----------



## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Man the Chevy and that Red Dodge sure looked good, nice looking trucks. I wonder what would happen if you took the Chevy or a Dodge and hooked them to the Ford with a chain who would pull who around??? In the future

I will be buying a new truck in the future and it will be one of the top 3 for awhile the Ford was out of the running with that 6.0 but will have to see how the 6.4 does. For me I don't care how fast something will go but how reliable it is.

Those movies were fun to watch but don't put to much weight into them.


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

nynethead said:


> Turn your volume up on the video, all you hear is a diesel idling, it is a fixed tape you do not hear the sounds of either truck giving it the gas. The ford would make a huge racket and you would also hear the duramax. The idling sound definitely isn't a duramax, not sure what engine it is. Same engine idle on the for/chevy and ford/dodge. I know my chevy 2500 with a 10K fifth wheel leaves my cousins f350 7.3L with cold air/4"exhaust and chip set at the toll gate and mine is stock.
> 
> Rigged commercials just kills sales, ford is trying to trick people into thinking they might have a good diesel again.


After reading your post, I decided to watch it (never did originally). The idling that we hear is evidently from a truck that is off camera. There doesn't appear to be any sound on the video that the subjects are viewing.

I don't doubt that the original video, being viewed by the individuals may be a Ford production. It does appear to be to an '08 body style on the F450. But what year GM and Dodge trucks are they using. Like others have said, video's produced by any manufacturer tend to be biased, and until I seem something by an independant testing lab, I take for what it is, a commercial, whether it was made by the manufacturer, or just by some fanatical loyalist fans.

I have no brand loyalty, I buy what suites my needs at the time, but I do remember being burned...and I will think twice before buying another Ford/IH diesel until it proves itself. The 6.0L PSD has been plagued with problems, since it was introduced, but the 7.3L was a great engine.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, my perfect truck would be an F350 chassis and body, a Cummins B series engine, and an Allison 1000 series transmission, but that is only a dream.....

Tim


----------



## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

hatcityhosehauler said:


> I've said it before, and I'll say it again, my perfect truck would be an F350 chassis and body, a Cummins B series engine, and an Allison 1000 series transmission, but that is only a dream.....
> 
> Tim


Hey Tim,

good news for you.........on the Dodge Cummins forum I frequent, they list a company that is doing Cummins/Allison conversions. I think it is still in the Dodge chassis, but they are adding the Allison 1000 to the B series motors.

Steve


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

huntr70 said:


> I've said it before, and I'll say it again, my perfect truck would be an F350 chassis and body, a Cummins B series engine, and an Allison 1000 series transmission, but that is only a dream.....
> 
> Tim


Hey Tim,

good news for you.........on the Dodge Cummins forum I frequent, they list a company that is doing Cummins/Allison conversions. I think it is still in the Dodge chassis, but they are adding the Allison 1000 to the B series motors.

Steve
[/quote]

At what premium??









There is also a place that is dropping Duramax's into Suburbans....but the cost is prohibitive.

I would venture to say that those Cummins/Allison combos are out of my price range...









Tim


----------



## JimBo99 (Apr 25, 2006)

Fun discussion! But I love my Dodge and I'm stickin' with it!!!


----------



## MattS (Oct 15, 2006)

hatcityhosehauler said:


> I would venture to say that those Cummins/Allison combos are out of my price range...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've heard $9k-$10k.

Any conversion is going to be cost prohibative.


----------



## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

nynethead said:


> Turn your volume up on the video, all you hear is a diesel idling, it is a fixed tape you do not hear the sounds of either truck giving it the gas. The ford would make a huge racket and you would also hear the duramax. The idling sound definitely isn't a duramax, not sure what engine it is. Same engine idle on the for/chevy and ford/dodge. I know my chevy 2500 with a 10K fifth wheel leaves my cousins f350 7.3L with cold air/4"exhaust and chip set at the toll gate and mine is stock.
> 
> Rigged commercials just kills sales, ford is trying to trick people into thinking they might have a good diesel again.


So the assumption is that it's Ford, as in Ford Motor Company, that produced this video? Are you sure? Could be, or it could be by some magazine, or some other party.

And what if the new engine turns out to be, in fact, a "good engine"? Would that still be a trick?

Eventually the facts will emerge. Until then, I am suspending any judgement.

Bill


----------



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

If you click on this guys albums you can see that he was at a traveling Ford F450 show. This video is being watched on the F450 trailers moniter.. The idling is probably the F450 itself. There are a bunch of show pics also in his album showing 6.4 cut aways, and the truck/trailer..

It is a Ford production video. The Dodge is a 06 or 07(headlights). The Gm is the new style(classic) 03 and up.

From the info on this engine, it is very responsive and along with the lower differential gears Fords needs, will be a faster truck then the others in a race. This has been hashed out on several forums I read.. I would gamble it is a true video.. I think Ford is trying to rebuild there reputation.. Honestly there future is riding on this engine, at least a considerable part of it anyway.

Its possible this truck may have 4.88's, but from what I have read, they are only available in cab and chasssis combo's. The standard bed platform would get the 4.30's. These with 19.5 rims and 32" tall tires will lower the final gearing a bit, down to around 4.11..

The reason for the rear diff gear options except the 4.88 are to keep the final drive ratio at 4.11 with all there different rim/tire combo's.

Here is a very good aticle on the F450..
F450 info

Carey


----------



## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

All in all, I'll wait to make any judgements until an independant tester (Petersons Off road, Trucking, etc) make a side by side, apples to apples, unbiased test.

For Ford's sake, I hope the new engine does work out for them, as I don't think they need anymore negative publicity about their diesel engines.

Steve


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

I have read that both Ford and IH have put an incredible amount of testing into the 6.4, not wanting to repeat the fiasco that is/was the 6.0 Powerstroke/VT345

For their sake, I hope it works out for them, but I have to agree with Corey on the thought behind a dual stage turbo, in that is it just one more thing to break.

Tim


----------



## HTQM (May 31, 2006)

Just asked the Father-n-Law about the F-450, he has two on his lot and both are almost $60K. I didn't ask how they were loaded, being a Texas dealership they are probably loaded.

For that price, I'll keep looking at the classified adds and used section of dealerships.

Dave


----------



## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

Here are some excerpts from a recent article in Trailer Life magazine, for your reading pleasure: http://www.trailerlife.com/output.cfm?id=1194391

Bill


----------



## Dark Green Dmax (Aug 2, 2005)

This is a reprint from the Diesel place. This is not me in the pullin contest.
Diesel place link

_______________________________________________________________________________
Some are raving about how the new 6.4psd walked all over a Duramax in a pulling test. (F450 with 4.88's what do you expect)

Here is what I posted at the diesel stop about my encounter yesterday with a new 08 PSD.

"Well, I have my answer on how a 08 Ford 6.4 compares in comparative trim to my GMC/Duramax.

Coming home yesterday up Hwy 281 out of Blanco Texas a white 08 F250 pulling a 26-29 foot wildcat travel trailer. ( I hope he at least waited 500 miles to tow.) I was pulling my 40 foot Grand Junction 5ver weighing in at 15k. I know I will be banned or ridiculed here but this is as close as we will get for a true head to head comparison. That being as the F250 comes with 3.73 gears same as my GMC. As we came out of Blanco texas heading north we got about 8 miles north where the highway goes divided 4 lane. It is also a long 1 1/2 mile uphill not terribly steep but a good pull. I was behind him in the right lane, he saw me signal to pull out, I waited for the car overtaking me and went to the left lane 2 truck lengths behind him in the right. As I pulled alongside he looked over and had a big grinn, my wife berated me cuz she knew what was next. I nailed it, he did the same. Next thing he saw was 23k worth of truck and trailer pulling him to the top of the hill by a complete truck and trailer length, thats 60ft or so. At the top I backed off he came back up along side and at that time would not even look over, not even his wife on the right. (probably told the wife his 50K+ 08 F250 would outpull everything on the road and now she was ticked.

I say this was fair, he was trying his hardest, and he was probably atleast 5k lighter than me. My truck is stock and I am sure his was.

So does anyone here want to own up to that event? You were driving an 08 F250 longbed CC 4x4 white with what looks like the arizona beige lowers and trim and a newer looking wildcat bumper tow. This was about 1:30pm northbound 281. Me I was the GMC/3500 with 40ft trailer passing you. "
__________________
Dually Club Member #395
2007 GMC classic D/A 3500 Dually 4x4
2006 Grand Junction 35TMS 5th Wheel 39'8" long 15,500 pounds
2006 VW Jetta TDI
2005 VW Passat Wagon TDI
1967 RS/SS Camaro Butternut yellow/Black vinyl top.
1959 Austin Healey Bug Eye Sprite 
Offline


----------



## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

Dark Green Dmax said:


> Some are raving about how the new 6.4psd walked all over a Duramax in a pulling test. (F450 with 4.88's what do you expect)


How do you know the F450 had a 4.88 gear? As the Trailer Life article mentions, some F450s have 4.10 ratio. Quote from the article:" Our test truck for towing was a 4WD Crew Cab with the diesel engine, automatic transmission and 4.10:1 axle ratio. "

Bill


----------



## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

*Fuel economy numbers anyone???????*

I read an article - I think it was on Edmunds.com - where Ford had flown journos down to the Corpus - San Antonio area for some fun with the new 08 Super Duty's. Although the weather diverted most of the planned events, they did get to do some extended driving in them. IIRC the female journo reported that the 08 SD with the 6.4 psd averaged something like 8.5-9.5mpg (unloaded). My first thought was "surely that can't be right". For Ford's sake, I sure hope that is somehow incorrect. Brutal.

-CC


----------



## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

collinsfam_tx said:


> *Fuel economy numbers anyone???????*
> 
> I read an article - I think it was on Edmunds.com - where Ford had flown journos down to the Corpus - San Antonio area for some fun with the new 08 Super Duty's. Although the weather diverted most of the planned events, they did get to do some extended driving in them. IIRC the female journo reported that the 08 SD with the 6.4 psd averaged something like 8.5-9.5mpg (unloaded). My first thought was "surely that can't be right". For Ford's sake, I sure hope that is somehow incorrect. Brutal.
> 
> -CC


You are right, 8.5-9 mpg unloaded can't be right. Maybe for stop and go driving during rush hour, but for open country driving milage should be not far from 20 mpg empty. Our 6.0 Powerstroke gets about 18 mpg average for the unloaded driving we do and sometimes better than 20 mpg for driving at a constant 55 mph. Towing the Outback, we get from 11 to 14 mpg depending on speed and headwind. I would expect the new 6.4 PSD to be close to what we experience.

Bill


----------



## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

On the way back to my office from doing some work at a branch, I stopped in at the Ford dealer to see if they had any 08 SD's on the lot. They did. They had probably 8 including an F-450. I didn't have much time but I did sit in the back seat of an F-250 4x4 Lariat with the PSD. It is much more "roomy" than my 02 F-150SC. In fact - it was reminiscent of the MegaCab as my previously posted interior room comparison suggested.

Two things to note. I was "let down" by the seating surfaces - they felt hard and thin. The leather felt cheap and "plasticy". I say that with the caveat that I did not spend much time in it and didn't sit in the front at all so take that with a big grain of salt. Second...the sticker. How on earth does Ford expect to climb out of a hole by attempting to sell these things carrying a MSRP of 50k. That's right. F-250, PSD, 4x4, Lariat - $50k. That msrp effectively puts the truck far out of the range of folks like myself. I feel let down as I was (naively) hoping for a price that would make the new SD a compelling option (the Chevy back seat is too small for us to consider that option otherwise we would).

We are going to go take another look this weekend.

-CC


----------



## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

I should have a worn one of my daughters diapers before looking at the sticker price of the loaded model because I just about s&^% my pants







. The F-250 Larait CC 4x4 with all the bells & whistles, rims, chrome(I think it had the optional GPS & CD combo in the dash) was 50K







. The F-250 Crew Cab 4x4 XLT edition made me feel better at 38K.

Edit - took another peek since it's only a mile down the road, didn't include the GPS, they are an option on the King Ranch Model


----------



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Dark Green Dmax said:


> Some are raving about how the new 6.4psd walked all over a Duramax in a pulling test. (F450 with 4.88's what do you expect)


How do you know the F450 had a 4.88 gear? As the Trailer Life article mentions, some F450s have 4.10 ratio. Quote from the article:" Our test truck for towing was a 4WD Crew Cab with the diesel engine, automatic transmission and 4.10:1 axle ratio. "

Bill
[/quote]

4.88's are only available in cab and chassis units from what I have read.. If it has 19.5 wheels it should have 4.30's, If it has 18' wheels it should have 4.11 in the F450.. F350 and smaller may have higher gears, 3.73 etc..

Carey


----------



## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

Collinsfam Tx,

Yessir, sticker price is sure pricey. But the other brands get pricey too when heavily optioned. Although I haven't done any haggling recently, I would bet you could get a lot of dough off the sticker price. Today's marketplace is seeing fuel efficiency as an important selling point. Big heavy fuel guzzlers aren't selling as well as in past years, so dealers will cut prices to move them. Make the dealers sharpen their pencils and you should get a deal in 40K territory for that 50K unit.

Bill


----------



## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

collinsfam_tx said:


> How on earth does Ford expect to climb out of a hole by attempting to sell these things carrying a MSRP of 50k. That's right. F-250, PSD, 4x4, Lariat - $50k. That msrp effectively puts the truck far out of the range of folks like myself. -CC


Most of the Diesels Are around th 50k mark loaded and at msrp. Thats not out of the norm.


----------



## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

$50K for the Ford. Do you expect the Chevy\GMC's to be different?

I have been looking (just for fun) at the 1500 Chevy's and with out too much they get around $38K MSRP. GM put a 100K warranty on them but they also loaded the sticker price with that warranty!


----------



## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

*Yep, you guys are right about the pricing. It just gets me that a new vehicle can cost as much as a house payment when broken down to a monthly comparison. What the heck is a payment on a 60K truck anyway? $750-$800. I stilll live in an area of the country where you can buy a 1400 sq foot house on a 1/4 acre lot in a good neighborhood for the price of the new trucks. Just amazing.

Now I hear they are offering 7 or 8 years for vehicle payments. Is that true? It seems ludicrous in my mind, most people won't have a car that long but they will still owe on the loan. After 8 years what do you actually wind up paying? 70-80K? *


----------



## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

cookie9933 said:


> How on earth does Ford expect to climb out of a hole by attempting to sell these things carrying a MSRP of 50k. That's right. F-250, PSD, 4x4, Lariat - $50k. That msrp effectively puts the truck far out of the range of folks like myself. -CC


Most of the Diesels Are around th 50k mark loaded and at msrp. Thats not out of the norm.
[/quote]

I was comparing it to the Dodge MegaCab I was quoted from (Dec. 06) that outfit in Kellogg, Idaho. An 06 *4x2* CTD 2500 MegaCab with Laramie option was something like 36k after rebates etc. 36k is "doable" for us and we are a middle income family (I think). I was considering the price the MegaCab *started at* vs. the price the Ford is *starting at*. That is the big difference that got me. Part of it was that I was looking at an 06 5.9CTD vs. the 08SD even though it was just 2 - 2.5 months ago. Also the Ford is a 4x4 - not sure how much that adds in "Fordland".

The Jimmy's and Chevy's might be in the Ford range, I don't know. I have not priced them because the cab configuration does not fit our needs. I have not looked at the sticker prices on the 07 Dodges with the new 6.7 motor and trans which would be a more accurate comparison.

I will find out more this weekend assuming that the snow is gone and the temps are over 50.

-CC


----------



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

A lil more info and fun tossed in..

Click here for 08 6.4 dyno video

Carey


----------



## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

they say the most powerful diesel, yet it comes in at 274Hp and 630 torque.

I have not dyno metered my lbz but it is supossed to be 360Hp and 650 torque, even if I take of 20% loss to the wheels i'm still at 288 hp. how can it be the most powerful diesel?


----------



## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

nynethead said:


> they say the most powerful diesel, yet it comes in at 274Hp and 630 torque.
> 
> I have not dyno metered my lbz but it is supossed to be 360Hp and 650 torque, even if I take of 20% loss to the wheels i'm still at 288 hp. how can it be the most powerful diesel?


Wow are we all sensitive on our trucks!








What is the heaviest Outback??? Probably not 24k!!! Believe the mfg numbers (they are a lot more scientific than most independants). Then drive the truck you like even if it has 50 fewer quoted Hp than the other guy.


----------



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

nynethead said:


> they say the most powerful diesel, yet it comes in at 274Hp and 630 torque.
> 
> I have not dyno metered my lbz but it is supossed to be 360Hp and 650 torque, even if I take of 20% loss to the wheels i'm still at 288 hp. how can it be the most powerful diesel?


Here is one that will get your blood pressure boiling!

2006 dodge........ 375hp 900 torque!

Pretty amazing clicky!

Here is where I found the info.... Have fun with it guys! Lots of goodies here!

Goody info here on this clicky1

Carey


----------



## bill_pfaff (Mar 11, 2005)

And then there is the real world of "good-ol-boy" fun


----------



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I found a link to a forum that ran a dyno on a LBZ Duramax..

Rear wheel hp 278
Rear wheel torque 551..

Ford making 630 torque is pretty amazing stock..

He said dodges consistly run 235 hp and 555 torque at the rear wheels

Here is a link to the article which explains alot about dynos, and adding performance mods.

Click for LBZ info

Carey


----------



## MattS (Oct 15, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> They tell you can tow after 500 miles, but the engine is still in derate mode for a few thousand miles..
> 
> So the Ford he was racing was still in break in mode.. Go back and tell the guy that and see what he says..
> 
> Carey


I'm not certain this applies to pickups.


----------



## Swany (Mar 2, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> I'm just saying that they are comparing apples and oranges....
> 
> The F450 has a 14500 GVWR, 33000 lb CGVWR....
> Is available with 4.88 ratios
> ...


Actually the ford f450 weighs more than a gm 3500.. Its pretty equal. 
The ford will whip a dmax in a race. I'm sorry..

The Dmax makes max torque at 1600 rpm thus only needing 3.73 gears to keep the engine in peak torque at cruise.

The Dodge also makes max torque at 1600 rpms thus only needing 3.73 gears to keep the engine at peak torque. at cruise..

They(GM/Dodge) dont need any other diff ratios....

FORD does! It makes peak torque at 2000 rpms then needing 4.10+ gears to keep the engine at peak torque at cruise.

So for a ford the 4.10 gears are the same as gm, and dodge's 3.73..

Engines that spin fewer rpms last longer! Drivetrains that spin fewer rpms last longer too...

Off the line the 4.10+ gears will help ford to whip the gm/dodge 3.73. Physics...

Carey
[/quote]
One thing about it, if either the D-max or the Cummins get behind the Ford off of the line it is all over 'cause they will be slipping and sliding in the Ford's oil slick. they are chronic oil leakers ya know!


----------



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

MattS said:


> They tell you can tow after 500 miles, but the engine is still in derate mode for a few thousand miles..
> 
> So the Ford he was racing was still in break in mode.. Go back and tell the guy that and see what he says..
> 
> Carey


I'm not certain this applies to pickups.
[/quote]

I know it never used to. I have read on several tech articles that starting in 07 up light duty diesels they were going to start using a rate up method based on hours of use.. But maybe not yet.. I figured when the 07's are out a while we will all find out.. If you have a way of finding if this info is true, let us know.. If not its coming very soon.

I try to never post something without a link to help back it up... Since I cant remember where I read it, I prolly should have never posted it... I'll look around when I get a chance.

Carey


----------



## Scott and Jamie (Aug 27, 2006)

Swany said:


> One thing about it, if either the D-max or the Cummins get behind the Ford off of the line it is all over 'cause they will be slipping and sliding in the Ford's oil slick. they are chronic oil leakers ya know!


I really don't know? I have 100k on my 99 V10 and clean as a whistle and dosn't use/loose any oil. Put 120k on a 94 5.0 F150 and never a drop. Had a 97 F150 50K no oil leaks there either. Same with my first car a 86 escort. I did own a 89 Nissan and yes it sprung a bad leak from the front main seal.

Scott


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

> One thing about it, if either the D-max or the Cummins get behind the Ford off of the line it is all over 'cause they will be slipping and sliding in the Ford's oil slick. they are chronic oil leakers ya know!


My '04 Powerstroke doesn't leak.


----------



## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

*Here is your Ford body, cummins or CAT diesel, Allison combination.

http://www.aquasunmotorsports.com/ford_f650_specs.html

ANy questions?

P.S. If you have to ask how much, you can't afford it







*


----------



## bradnbecca (Feb 12, 2007)

hatcityhosehauler said:


> > One thing about it, if either the D-max or the Cummins get behind the Ford off of the line it is all over 'cause they will be slipping and sliding in the Ford's oil slick. they are chronic oil leakers ya know!
> 
> 
> My '04 Powerstroke doesn't leak.


ditto

of course, neither did my 2002 . . . . . . .

I guess next everyone will be pullin out their wee-wees to see whose is the biggest.









My truck has pulled my trailers everywhere I wanted it to with plenty of power to spare and without leaving me stranded anywhere. I get mileage in the high teens, towing or not, and with 77k miles, it doesn't use more than a thimblefull of oil between changes (at 5k mile intervals).

If your Chevy or Dodge does the same for you, congratulations, I'm glad it's working out for you.

We are planning on fulltiming in about two years, and I am negotiating now for a 2008 450 SD crew cab. With a verified towing capacity of almost 25k, it will handle the fifth wheel that we are going to be traveling in, along with all of DW's stuff. As far as the high price, we are going to get a 2wd Lariat cc, and are getting quotes in the high 30'ish range, dealing with fleet salesmen and a Ford Fleet number.

So when all you Dale wannabes go sailing by me in your Mopars and Bowties, I will wave, secure in my manhood and the knowledge that my new truck is just exactly what I need to pull my home on wheels (and that it could pull your truck and trailer together and still have towing capacity to spare).









I was hoping to avoid all this schoolboy testosterone $#%T on this site. . . . . . .

sigh


----------



## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

bradnbecca said:


> I was hoping to avoid all this schoolboy testosterone $#%T on this site. . . . . . .sigh


Yep, there has been a whole lot of it showing up lately. Never used to be this bad.....









Bill


----------



## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

I'm guilty as charged! I've spent more than a couple of paychecks adding 125 hp to my engine and I'm fully addicted to power, plus I like striiring the pot. As my wife said "boys will be boys" just a little winter fun guys - another couple of months and we'll be off the compter a bit and back to camping.

p.s. racing & campers don't mix


----------



## Dark Green Dmax (Aug 2, 2005)

The "kicker" here is that the manufactures are the ones stirring the pot by boasting the best stats on their new models. They will fudge where ever they can to "doctor up " there stats. Ie....posting HP & Torque rateings at the flywheel instead of the rear wheels(which are wayy different) & at what Rpms these engines makes these #s at. Plus comparing apples to oranges testing too.


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

White Buffalo said:


> *Here is your Ford body, cummins or CAT diesel, Allison combination.
> 
> http://www.aquasunmotorsports.com/ford_f650_specs.html
> 
> ...


That'd be great if I needed a medium duty truck...but you can't get that combo in a "light Duty" 3/4 ton or 1 ton Pickup, without spending big dollars to do a custom conversion.

Tim


----------



## Lazybonz(aka Bill) (Sep 23, 2006)

WOW
I paid just over $32,000 for my new 2007 Chevy 2500HD Extended cab Duramax/Allison. Thats *before* the trade in on my old Dodge for $8,000. I don't thik I paid too much more than I would have for a 3/4 ton gasser all considering.
I just got the work truck package with the upgraded cloth 40/20/40 seats, towing package etc.. It has everything I *need*
and no frills, but a fine HD hauler!
I dorove a couple for $40-50 grand, but didn't want to sell my first born son...so this works fine for us.
You can get good deals on a diesel, if your not greedy.








Bill

I still can't spell for beans...sorry


----------



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

White Buffalo said:


> WOW
> I paid just over $32,000 for my new 2007 Chevy 2500HD Extended cab Duramax/Allison. Thats *before* the trade in on my old Dodge for $8,000. I don't thik I paid too much more than I would have for a 3/4 ton gasser all considering.
> I just got the work truck package with the upgraded cloth 40/20/40 seats, towing package etc.. It has everything I *need*
> and no frills, but a fine HD hauler!
> ...


Sounds like a great deal, Bill... nothin wrong with the Work Truck... Much less to go wrong!

Carey


----------



## MattS (Oct 15, 2006)

bradnbecca said:


> With a verified towing capacity of almost 25k, it will handle the fifth wheel that we are going to be traveling in, along with all of DW's stuff.
> 
> ...my new truck is just exactly what I need to pull my home on wheels (and that it could pull your truck and trailer together and still have towing capacity to spare).


Ford has done some good marketing. How big of a 5th wheel are you planning on getting?


----------



## bradnbecca (Feb 12, 2007)

MattS said:


> With a verified towing capacity of almost 25k, it will handle the fifth wheel that we are going to be traveling in, along with all of DW's stuff.
> 
> ...my new truck is just exactly what I need to pull my home on wheels (and that it could pull your truck and trailer together and still have towing capacity to spare).


Ford has done some good marketing. How big of a 5th wheel are you planning on getting?
[/quote]

We are looking at 36 footers, since we are going to be living in it. We are looking at Excels' and are considering having a New Horizons built to order. In either case, we will be looking at a loaded weight approaching 20k. This is going to neccesitate something bigger than an F-350. This truck is very appealing to us because of its' capacities. This will let us get a truck with sufficient capacity without totally breaking the bank ( wayyyy cheaper than a custom 550-650 hauler, and from a test drive, wayyy more comfortable and manageable).

We are planning on getting the truck this year and, unless we hit the lottery sooner, getting our new fiver in about two years

I figure this truck will not even know our Outback is behind it . . . . . . .









BTW, the dealers are REAL proud of these things. If we didn't have access to fleet pricing, we probably couldn't pull it off.

I am hoping that all of the pre sale engineering and testing will result in a real world truck that won't have too many first year problems.

Because of the new suspension, the one we drove was very similar in ride quality to our current 250 without a trailer, which really surprised me.


----------



## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Reporting back as promised...I did go out and take a look at these new trucks this weekend and boy are they nice. They are large. There were so many things I liked about the truck. I loved the front seating and driving position. I especially liked the cabs with the captains' chairs and center console. The new Ford power tow mirrors, tailgate step and the console that comes with the captains' chairs are very nice touches. Your friends will be impressed when you show them. Did I mention that these things are big?

One thing I didn't like at all was the rear seat configuration. My DW *really* did not like it. The seats do not recline but also, they do not fold flat. Also, when you deploy the load floor, the bottom seat cushion does not raise to a vertical position instead - it remains at an angle. Now - the salesgal had to jack with the seatbelts to get it to go up even that far so I am curious if we really saw how it was supposed to work or not. The truck is so well thought out elsewhere that to see the rear seat operate in such a manner makes me (again) say "surely that cannot be right". For us, Dodge's MegaCab rear seat is better, no question about it.

Now speaking of my first "surely that cannot be right" - the reported miserable fuel mileage of 8-9mpg - my buddy just bought a brand new F250 King Ranch 4x4. We were talking about it on the phone and more than once I heard "this had better improve" because he was seeing the same thing - 8-9mpg displayed on the Ford computer. I'd like to know how it looks if he manually calculates it. However at this point - it looks like that reporter was right. Ugh.

Something else that was very curious...kinda makes me chuckle thinking about it now. The interior is deceptively large. For example - I was sitting in that Crew Cab SuperDuty thinking to myself "this is decently big, good shoulder, hip and leg room - back seat room is also good - decent improvement over my SuperCrew." Then - I went and sat in my '02 SuperCrew and I felt like I had just hopped in something the size of midsize sedan! The same thing happened with my DW. We went back and forth a few times between the CrewCab and our SC and it is hard to believe. You sit in the CC and you get the feeling it is a nice roomy interior but you have no idea how big it really is until we sat in our "formerly enormous" SuperCrew. It is funny but after sitting in that CrewCab our SuperCrew felt "cozy small" to both of us. I am chuckling now thinking about it. Again - for some reason, to us, the interior of that truck is just deceptively large. Oh...you guys know that thing you do after you have been married a few years the - "honey let me get the door for you" deal while yer still sitting in the drivers' seat? You know...you are still buckled up...maybe you unbuckle...then you do the "lean and stretch" to grab the door handle and open the door for her? Yeah...well that ain't happening in this heifer. At least not for this 5'10" guy. The truck is a big son of a gun.

Engine was quiet...surprisingly so. We did the "crank the motor and listen with the doors open then close them to listen to the difference" test. It was durn near as quiet as our SC with the 5.4 mod motor. From what my buddy said, I gather it is even more quiet on the highway as he previously owned an '05 SC with the 3v 5.4. Salesgal tried to get us to drive it. It was convenient that we had our daughter with us so we could use the "no, we would have to move the car seat over" excuse. It might have been too much to overcome. We liked that truck. F250 Lariat, 4x2, PSD, Auto, TowCommand and tailgate step. Nice, nice truck. I'd have the dark blue pearlcoat with gray interior please. Oh and in case you might have missed it - these trucks are really, wonderfully, big.

-CC


----------



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks for the report CC.. Our dealer has two now, and they sure look MACHO! Cool trucks!

Carey


----------



## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

collinsfam_tx said:


> Reporting back as promised...I did go out and take a look at these new trucks this weekend and boy are they nice. They are large. There were so many things I liked about the truck. I loved the front seating and driving position. I especially liked the cabs with the captains' chairs and center console. The new Ford power tow mirrors, tailgate step and the console that comes with the captains' chairs are very nice touches. Your friends will be impressed when you show them. Did I mention that these things are big?
> 
> One thing I didn't like at all was the rear seat configuration. My DW *really* did not like it. The seats do not recline but also, they do not fold flat. Also, when you deploy the load floor, the bottom seat cushion does not raise to a vertical position instead - it remains at an angle. Now - the salesgal had to jack with the seatbelts to get it to go up even that far so I am curious if we really saw how it was supposed to work or not. The truck is so well thought out elsewhere that to see the rear seat operate in such a manner makes me (again) say "surely that cannot be right". For us, Dodge's MegaCab rear seat is better, no question about it.
> 
> ...


Just curious, but what was the sticker price on that bad boy???

That was a 2 wheel drive, right??

Steve


----------



## Swany (Mar 2, 2006)

Scott and Jamie said:


> One thing about it, if either the D-max or the Cummins get behind the Ford off of the line it is all over 'cause they will be slipping and sliding in the Ford's oil slick. they are chronic oil leakers ya know!


I really don't know? I have 100k on my 99 V10 and clean as a whistle and dosn't use/loose any oil. Put 120k on a 94 5.0 F150 and never a drop. Had a 97 F150 50K no oil leaks there either. Same with my first car a 86 escort. I did own a 89 Nissan and yes it sprung a bad leak from the front main seal.

Scott
[/quote]

It is the power strokes that like to leak. Gassers are OK


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

> Now speaking of my first "surely that cannot be right" - the reported miserable fuel mileage of 8-9mpg - my buddy just bought a brand new F250 King Ranch 4x4. We were talking about it on the phone and more than once I heard "this had better improve" because he was seeing the same thing - 8-9mpg displayed on the Ford computer. I'd like to know how it looks if he manually calculates it. However at this point - it looks like that reporter was right. Ugh.


The mileage will be worse while breaking the motor in, but 8-9?? Does you buddy have the 6.0 or the new 6.4? What kind of driving is he doing. These things hate stop and go, and idling...my Ex with the 6.0 will get between 11-15 around town depending on the season, but when I get out on the highway I'll get 20, as long as I'm not towing....then it's around 12.

I would say the computers are more accurate then most folks give them credit to be when it comes to mpg. After all, the PCM knows how much fuel it is supplying to the injectors, and it knows how fast it is moving across the ground....

Tim


----------



## MattS (Oct 15, 2006)

hatcityhosehauler said:


> > Now speaking of my first "surely that cannot be right" - the reported miserable fuel mileage of 8-9mpg - my buddy just bought a brand new F250 King Ranch 4x4. We were talking about it on the phone and more than once I heard "this had better improve" because he was seeing the same thing - 8-9mpg displayed on the Ford computer. I'd like to know how it looks if he manually calculates it. However at this point - it looks like that reporter was right. Ugh.
> 
> 
> The mileage will be worse while breaking the motor in, but 8-9?? Does you buddy have the 6.0 or the new 6.4? What kind of driving is he doing. These things hate stop and go, and idling...my Ex with the 6.0 will get between 11-15 around town depending on the season, but when I get out on the highway I'll get 20, as long as I'm not towing....then it's around 12.
> ...


With all the new emissions requirements, there will probably be a MPG hit. MPG and emissions seem to have an inverse relationship.


----------



## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

_Just curious, but what was the sticker price on that bad boy???

That was a 2 wheel drive, right??

Steve_

Steve - yes 4x2. Curiously, they had a sticker on it but it had no numbers at all. None anywhere. The other trucks they had that were similar to this one were all 4x4's and they were between 50-53k. Salesgal said most were buying them for MSRP or near that. She said something to my DW about discounting one 3k. She made it clear that they would not let price get in the way of a sale (heard that one before). If I had to *guess*, a 4x2 Lariat PSD/Auto with the options we would want would sticker in the 47-48k neighborhood. Salesgal asked us to come up with a list of options we would want and to email them to her. I will let you folks know what she says it msrp's for.

hatcityhosehauler - he only had the truck a couple of days and had just come back from a 90 mile round trip to a town just north of us (all highway). He said "the average mileage went up from 8.3 to 8.7 so maybe it will keep going up".









You know what is a bummer - the cloth seating on my '02 XLT is so far superior to any "cloth" you can get today. It actually feels like what you would expect when you use the word "cloth" to describe it. Both the Ford and Dodge have this "cloth" that is more like some synthetic indoor/outdoor covering. I would use the word "tentrough" to describe it more accurately as in "The XLT's seating features the all new fabric - _Tentrough_ that is water and stain resistant!" The Dodge's "Yes Essentials" seating material is the worst by far. I would term it "YesRugburn". I don't even know that calling it "fabric" is accurate, much less "cloth". In all seriousness, "tentrough" is a word that seems accurate for what that stuff is. It is some sort of synthetic tent-like material but rough instead of smooth.

If we buy a truck with that "tentrough" kind of seating material on it, we will factor in having the seats covered with aftermarket leather.

-CC


----------



## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

MattS said:


> > Now speaking of my first "surely that cannot be right" - the reported miserable fuel mileage of 8-9mpg - my buddy just bought a brand new F250 King Ranch 4x4. We were talking about it on the phone and more than once I heard "this had better improve" because he was seeing the same thing - 8-9mpg displayed on the Ford computer. I'd like to know how it looks if he manually calculates it. However at this point - it looks like that reporter was right. Ugh.
> 
> 
> The mileage will be worse while breaking the motor in, but 8-9?? Does you buddy have the 6.0 or the new 6.4? What kind of driving is he doing. These things hate stop and go, and idling...my Ex with the 6.0 will get between 11-15 around town depending on the season, but when I get out on the highway I'll get 20, as long as I'm not towing....then it's around 12.
> ...


With all the new emissions requirements, there will probably be a MPG hit. MPG and emissions seem to have an inverse relationship.
[/quote]

The diesel won't start getting their best fuel economy until 5k or more miles. 
Our 2006 Dmax around town with no freeway trips is consistently 13 mpg. This is it's life during the week. Mixed driving is 16-17. Freeway trips with cruise, no towing and going 65 mph it will go 22 mpg. Bump the speed up to 70 mph and economy drops to 19-20. I get very consistant mpg between the DIC computer and hand calculated if all the DIC variables are reset at fuel fillup. This truck is stock as a rock still! 
Your mileage and experience may vary....

Map Guy


----------



## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

map guy said:


> The diesel won't start getting their best fuel economy until 5k or more miles.
> Map Guy


I've been told that it often takes 30,000 miles (or more) until a diesel pickup's best milage happens. This is from friends' experience. Since we don't have that many miles yet on our F250, we're hoping that is correct.

Bill


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

I'll agree on the speed relation to mpg...my Ex will get 20-22 while set on cruise at 65. Kick that up to 72 and your looking at 18-19

Tim


----------



## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Look at the rear gears that truck has in it. 4.10's , 4.56, etc. That will give it a MPG hit for sure. Also notice as Carey pointed out to us that the engine is peak torque at 2000 RPM hence the rear gearing. I certainly expect a hit on mileage from both the '07 emissions as well as the gearing, more hits if it is a dually.


----------

