# Speaking Before Our City About Rv Parking



## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

The city where I live is considering limits and new regulations on RV parking, and will be holding on open meeting tomorrow night. I'll be speaking before the Planning Commission. I hope this isn't the start of something bad.









Local Paper Article


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## jlbabb28 (Feb 27, 2006)

Intresting reading Jim best of luck with your battle!

Jeff


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## Mgonzo2u (Aug 3, 2004)

McMahon, a 32-year Cerritos resident, said the city's 400-plus RV and motor home owners feel they are being marginalized. *He also cites the differing cultural and aesthetic tastes of the city's Asian majority*  as a driving force behind any move toward more stringent policies on RVs and motor homes.

*Ain't that the truth about the new majority. Doesn't mean things need to change from the status quo though just to appease them.

Good luck Jim.

Raise some cane brother for us RV owners everywhere.


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## Scrib (Jun 28, 2005)

I'll be interested to hear how it goes. Good luck!


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Good luck, Jim!
It sounds like you may have a battle on your hands.

On the other hand, it might be a good time to invest in an RV storage facility.









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

We're behind you Jim...Go get 'em








Keep us posted on the progress,
Dawn


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## Justman (Jul 22, 2006)

We're rooting for you!


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

Best of luck to you Jim
I'm sure you will give them a great speech
Please keep us updated on your speech and battle for RVers

Don


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## Lady Di (Oct 28, 2005)

Hope that is not the new wave of the future.

Best wishes for a win on the part of RV owners.


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

HootBob said:


> Best of luck to you Jim
> I'm sure you will give them a great speech
> Please keep us updated on your speech and battle for RVers
> 
> Don


I'm still working off the rough edges of my speech, and I'll post a copy of it and my observations after the meeting.

By the way for those reading the article above, I'm not the "Jim" listed in the article. Although both passionate about the issue, he and I haven't been able agree completely on all the main points. I guess you could say I'm a moderate, and he's a radical.

Thanks for your well wishes. I've never really spoken publicly and will probably throw-up from nervousness







But alas, the issue is too important to me to sit on the sidelines and let others decide my future.


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## RizFam (Feb 25, 2006)

Best of Luck Jim, hoping for a victory.









Tami


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Bring your cowbell!!!! That will get there attention









Good Luck Jim. Having notes or in writing will help with the nerves as you are doing.

John


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## alebar17 (Mar 10, 2006)

Good luck Jim, we have the same issues in my town








not sure if the race issue is one you want to mess with though


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Jim, I wish you much luck tomorrow. My biggest fear, and actually my biggest beef is when people try to tell me what I can and do on my property. If they want to have say over my property, they can pay my taxes and my mortgage!

Tim


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

hatcityhosehauler said:


> Jim, I wish you much luck tomorrow. My biggest fear, and actually my biggest beef is when people try to tell me what I can and do on my property. If they want to have say over my property, they can pay my taxes and my mortgage!
> 
> Tim


Amen..


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

Jim --

if its got as far as the City planning commission -- then you are screwed ... because obviously they have already figured out that somehow the RVs are causing property values or something to be lowered and thats why they are involved...

with that said -- is it still possible to go around to every single person with an RV and get them to sign a support petition? ... that would be allot of signatures (ie voters)

Also ... My first question to the council would be "what about a grandfather clause" for those of us that bought RVs becuase the rules were the way they were when we got here and now if you change it then this poses an undue financial burden on us to store...

I worked a pro bono case many many years ago when i was young for a ham radio guy that had put up this but ugly antenna and 5 years later the city passed a law saying that no antennas were allowed -- I won the case (even though i thouht it was the ugliest thing i had ever seen and if i had lived in that city would have fought on the other side)

many towns in Texas now have strong sanctions against RVrs storing them on the street or in the yards -- but if you can prove that you had your RV at the time of the passing of the law -- and that the new law would make you suffer -- then you are a candidate for being grandfathered

And i would totally leave the race card out of it --


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## Humpty (Apr 20, 2005)

Good Luck Jim!

All us OB'ers will be at the podium with you brother.


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## happycamper (Jul 26, 2005)

California Jim said:


> By the way for those reading the article above, I'm not the "Jim" listed in the article. Although both passionate about the issue, he and I haven't been able agree completely on all the main points. I guess you could say I'm a moderate, and he's a radical.
> 
> Thanks for your well wishes. I've never really spoken publicly and will probably throw-up from nervousness
> 
> ...


Good luck Jim, from your east coast buddy Jim.

By the way, for those reading the article, I am not the "Jim listed in the article" either.


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## nonny (Aug 14, 2005)

Best of luck to you and thanks for stepping up to the plate. These are issues I've been facing alot lately as I look to purchase a home. I'll be eager to hear the results!


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## 3LEES (Feb 18, 2006)

Jim, good luck with your presentation before the city council. I sure hope our local government never decides to ammend our RV regulations.

As long as the RV is behind the front corner of the dwelling, we are in compliance. And that is exactly where my camper is...behind a gated fence next to my house.

As far as making a speech before your council, it's not that hard. I lead congregational singing at my church, and often sing solos. I also address the congregation each Sunday with annoucements.

The trick I found is not to dwell on the whole, but talk to a few. I'm sure you can talk to a few at your place of business and with friends and family. Prepare your speech, get very familiar with it, and then talk to the chair of the council and the members to the far right and left.

Again, good luck! I bet you will do just fine.

Dan


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

I have read before about alot of cities trying to restrict or ban RV's from the streets and from the side yards. I know that Good Sams Club has a task force that will help with this, you might want to contact them about some help. They have been effective in the past. So far, my city has only started working on old cars and junk in the yard, so I am wondering if they are starting to set up to try and get rid of campers parked in yards. Mine is in the backyard, completely behind the house on the side street (live on a corner lot). The only thing that they contain is that the camper can only be parked on the street for 3 days, which most of the time is no problem with me as I can as soon as the street is cleared of parked cars, I can get it in the back yard. During the summer, the police usually don't bother you unless someone (like my nasty neighbor) complains. Some did complain last February when I had it parked beside my house for a few days while I got permission to park the camper at the church. The police told them to mind their own business, that it was only there for a couple of days and still hooked to the truck.

Good luck tonight in the future. If the way things work is like here, to change the law the council has to vote 3 sepperate times on this issue, giving you a chance to propose something that everyone can live with.


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## Kenstand (Mar 25, 2004)

Good luck with City Council but it does sound like the decision of the judges is final and that the decision is already completed.

I thought the current rules seemed fair.

I don't have a good feeling for you on this one but lets hope you are grandfathered into the older regulations.

Let us know the results.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Ghosty said:


> Jim --
> if its got as far as the City planning commission -- then you are screwed ... because obviously they have already figured out that somehow the RVs are causing property values or something to be lowered and thats why they are involved...


I don't know that this has ever happened....but I have to dissagree with Ghosty on this one. As a member of my town's Conservation Commission which, incidentally, works hand-in-hand with our Planning Commission, any  matter which is raised by the citizenry and which is appropriately brought before the Commission, must  be heard and considered. It sounds that this RV matter was brought, the Commission rightfully requested a study, the public hearing is about to be held, and the Commission will then make its decision. Although town politics are fickle things which are rarely displayed in full dress on the surface, matters which come before town commissions are not automatically foregone conclusions, just because they hear them.

just my .02


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Good luck Jim and keep us posted.

Amazing how one person can complain and they waste all that tax payers money because they don't like what they see. I'll bet they are just jealous. When my father in-law built a work shop in his back yard his neighbor complained and said it was blocking the sun from hitting his daughter's bedroom window. Well the shop was dead north from his house and I haven't seen the sun come up from that direction yet. This guy is a Judge appointed by Clinton, so that says a lot about this guy...


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

"If the ban is passed, there will be a permit process in place for RV and trailer owners who want to load or unload their belongings."

Oh, what fun, to come begging to city hall for a permit to load your own trailer at your own home. I'm with HCHH on this one; you wanna run it, you buy it.

Sluggo


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Jim,

I give presentations nearly once a week but remember back to junior high when I used to get paralyzed. It is real simple, be passionate about what you are talking about. Speak in simple sentences. I would be glad to review your speech.

Mike C


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## willie226 (Apr 4, 2006)

Jim

I'am with you Good luck

Willie


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## kjdj (Sep 14, 2004)

Ghosty said:


> Jim --
> 
> if its got as far as the City planning commission -- then you are screwed ... because obviously they have already figured out that somehow the RVs are causing property values or something to be lowered and thats why they are involved...
> 
> ...


The difference with the ham tower is PRB-1 in the federal code. The feds give Hams the OK to put towers in their backyards.
Hams will win that battle everytime.

I fought the RV battle in Walton county GA. What came out of it is "any vehicle (RV Included) must be parked on concrete within the property setbacks". They got us on the EPA angle i.e. dripping nasty fluids on the dirt.


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Wow, so many responses. This is obviously a hot issue here, and to all RV'rs.

Those racial observations in the article are not mine, and have nothing to do with the isssue as I see it. We're all just a bunch of people with differing opinions. And I suspect that my opinion will differ with quite a few here too. More on that later.

Thanks for all of your advice and info. I'm ready to go and expect a large turnout from RV owners tonight. More to come after I get back.

Oh, and I'll be leaving the cowbell at home









Thanks


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

California Jim said:


> The city where I live is considering limits and new regulations on RV parking, and will be holding on open meeting tomorrow night. I'll be speaking before the Planning Commission. I hope this isn't the start of something bad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you belong to Good Sam, check the website. They have all kinds of information on parking rights. This subject has reared its ugly head in every state, and some people have been successful in defeating it - some not.

We are fighting this same thing here in my town. Right now, the village has backed off somewhat - they allow you to park in the driveway for up to 48 hours, for maintenance, loading, winterizing, etc. They only enforce the ordinance if there is a complaint, but they've hired a part-time code enforcement person recently, so we'll see how things go.

If this is an issue of beauty (someone doesn't like to stare at your Outback from their living room window), then you CAN defeat this. It is unconstitutional to proclaim personal property as an eyesore - especially if it has a license plate on it!

If this is a safety issue (impedes access to your, or others homes in case of a fire - or your trailer blocks the view of drivers), then you will have a fight on your hands.

But seriously - check with the Good Sam Club. They have a BUNCH of information, including the positive outcomes from legal battles all over the country, that will support your point. They usually have an appointed member in your area to help you. THEY don't want this sort of thing proliferating either!

Good Luck!









Mike, Sherry, Erica, and Arthur (the Collie)


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

California Jim said:


> Oh, and I'll be leaving the cowbell at home


Don't do it Jim! It's the cowbell that will turn the tide in your favor! I want you to take the cowbell Jim... let yourself go... explore the room! You listen to me Jim, and you will be wearing gold plated diapers by the end of the meeting. You need MORE COWBELL!!!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

LOL ! I love it! and am glad that I'm not the only one who "gets it". OK, I'll explore the space!


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

wolfwood said:


> Jim --
> if its got as far as the City planning commission -- then you are screwed ... because obviously they have already figured out that somehow the RVs are causing property values or something to be lowered and thats why they are involved...


I don't know that this has ever happened....but I have to dissagree with Ghosty on this one. As a member of my town's Conservation Commission which, incidentally, works hand-in-hand with our Planning Commission, any  matter which is raised by the citizenry and which is appropriately brought before the Commission, must  be heard and considered. It sounds that this RV matter was brought, the Commission rightfully requested a study, the public hearing is about to be held, and the Commission will then make its decision. Although town politics are fickle things which are rarely displayed in full dress on the surface, matters which come before town commissions are not automatically foregone conclusions, just because they hear them.

just my .02
[/quote]

LOL -- Ok you have me there on a Technicality -- WHAT I meant to say is -- YES -- they have to listen to you and should be open-minded -- but I am willing to bet that you are going to have to fight an uphill battle on this one -- a very very steep uphill battle -- ... NORMALLY -- by the time an argument gets to the City Planner someone has already looked into the validity of the petition and agrees with it or has been taken out to dinner --LOL...

I hope that you win....

Of course there is one way around it -- don't unhook your trailer from the TV -- that way "technically" you are not parking it -- LOL


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

kjdj said:


> I worked a pro bono case many many years ago when i was young for a ham radio guy that had put up this but ugly antenna and 5 years later the city passed a law saying that no antennas were allowed -- I won the case (even though i thouht it was the ugliest thing i had ever seen and if i had lived in that city would have fought on the other side)


The difference with the ham tower is PRB-1 in the federal code. The feds give Hams the OK to put towers in their backyards.
Hams will win that battle everytime.

[/quote]

Yes -- Ham radio guys facing local government zoning restrictions can fall back on PRB-1 - sort of. What PRB-1 did was to insert limited federal preemption of municipal land use regulations for Amateur Radio installations saying that Ham Radio provides Public Health and Safety benefits.

According to the FCC's rules, zoning authorities can not preclude Amateur Service communications, but must "reasonably" accommodate amateur communications and enact the "minimum practicable regulation to accomplish the state or local authority's legitimate purpose" Local governments can zone for height, safety and aesthetics concerns, but their restrictions can not be so prohibitive that they are overly restrictive.

Wherein lies the problem -- YOU -- as the amateur have to fight the proverbial "CityHall" with your time and money -- to make them understand that your 80 foot rusty tower is NOT an eyesore to your neighbors... and often you win the battle but lose the war.

Especially if you live in a restrictive HOA. Many amateurs are faced with restrictive housing and antenna Covenants under their HOAs. The HOAs tells you what color you can paint your house or how many cars you can park outside. The problem is -- the HOA covenant is a binding contract that you freely signed prior to moving in. The PRB-1 will only help you if the HOA covenant that was inacted when you first signed and moved in had its Residential Development standards changed to reflect No Antennas...


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Ghosty said:


> Yes -- Ham radio guys facing local government zoning restrictions can fall back on PRB-1 - sort of. What PRB-1 did was to insert limited federal preemption of municipal land use regulations for Amateur Radio installations saying that Ham Radio provides Public Health and Safety benefits.
> 
> According to the FCC's rules, zoning authorities can not preclude Amateur Service communications, but must "reasonably" accommodate amateur communications and enact the "minimum practicable regulation to accomplish the state or local authority's legitimate purpose" Local governments can zone for height, safety and aesthetics concerns, but their restrictions can not be so prohibitive that they are overly restrictive.
> 
> ...


When I moved into my house they had CC&R's but I really don't know if they are still in effect. The housing market was drying up and prices were dropping. The company who was building my sub-division decited to get out while the getting was good, they auctioned off their remaining houses and sold the rest of the land to another company and got out of town. The CC&R's said that they would control the CC&R's until the completion of the sub-division then all the home owners would vote in a CC&R committy. Well none of this ever happened and that was 10 years ago.

A bunch of the neighbors have changed the colors of their houses or put in RV parking or have don't landscaping that was not permitted in the CC&R's . So I really don't have a clue if the CC&R's are still in legal or in effect. I have but a couple of small VHF/UHF antennas and on one had said anything. Of course if they tried to enforce the CC&R's 90% of the home owners would have to make some very expensive changes. So for now I don't plan to put up a tower but would like to so some day. Guess I will have talk to a lawyer.


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## happycamper (Jul 26, 2005)

Jim is probably giving his speech right now! Wonder how he is doing? GO Jim!


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Ghosty,

Seems to me that "loss of property value" is an entirely subjective matter and who can really put a price on it especially as it concerns a Travel Trailer parked next to them. Conversely if the owner had to remove that trailer let alone 400 households then me thinks a very definite price tag could be put on that and used to defeat the zoning board, or at least get a grandfather clause.

That would be my ploy anyways.


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

With John Lennon smiling down from heaven...

(cue music) POWER TO THE PEOPLE.....POWER TO THE PEOPLE RIGHT NOW !....

So let me set the scene.

Our city council chambers are akin to a movie theater. A large room with about 300 stadium seats, and I have never seen it filled before. I get there about 30 minutes early to read over the "RV Parking on Residential Property" study that has had all of it's 105 pages thoughtfully assembled over the summer.

As the hour approaches I soon realize that, man, there sure are alot of people here, the place is almost full. I continue reading and ignore the crowd. 7pm and the meeting is called to order so I look up to see ALL of the seats filled, another 50 people standing against the back wall, and Sheriff's Deputys present. WOW! I think, this is gonna get interesting









It becomes immediately apparent that the Planning Commissioners are nervous, and as the meeting begins the Chairwoman comments that they are not used to so many people being in attendance, and clarifys the rules about being disruptive. HA!

When the time comes to finally discuss the RV issue, the commission asks for a show of hands to size up the crowd and decide how they were going to handle the public comments section. First she asks "How many of you intend to make a public comment tonight". THE WHOLE ROOM RAISES THEIR HANDS !! OMG I thought, this is going to be a long night, and an ugly one at that.

Next she asks "To help me determine the different sides of the issue, please raise your hand if you are AGAINST RV parking or want to limit it in some way". ONE guy and three people from ONE family nervously raise their hands!!! OMG ! Then she asks the opposite question and the place bursts out into thundering applause that goes on for what seems to me like forever. It was FABULOUS!

Needless to say, the RV owners "owned" that meeting with one testimony after another that went on for hours, each time finishing to the raucous applause of the crowd. Based on their testimony's I found the RV'rs as a whole to be extremely passionate about their RV's, exceedingly patrotic and God fearing people, who had a strong "common sense" of right and wrong. There was just no arguing with them and the excellent comments presented. So many, that I did not get a chance to speak. But I would have just been repeating what others had said anyway, and it was obvious that I was well represented.

This whole action by the Planning Commission was prompted by ONE guy who did not like looking at his neighbors 40' motorhome out his bedroom window. He was the only person to take the stand and make an opposing comment, and the other family ran for thier lives and never spoke!

One funny/pathetic moment came when the Commission asked staff "So, just how many complaints have there been against RV's?" The Director of Community Safety (Dr. Berg) scratches his chin as says "Well, I've only been here for about 7 years, so my experience is limited to that time frame. But in total I can only recall about 3 instances". OMG again! The place errupted in a mixture of applause, displeasure, shouts of "this is a big waste of time for ONE guy!", etc... You would have thought the people were going to destroy the place!

In closing, the meeting was an absolute TROUNCING of the opposition (which really didn't even exist). The Commission reccomended (for fear of their lives I think) to the Council that the "Status Quo" be maintained, an no changes in existing regulations were needed.

In closing remarks the Chairwoman added "I think we can put this issue to bed for another 20 years now". Again, you couldn't hear yourself scream it was so loud.

It was one of the most emotional, moving, and inspiring evenings I have ever had outside of a church.

Signing off, I remain: RV parking at home with full hook-ups.

Cal Jim


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

That is great Jim!!!!

Congrads on the win!!!!

Gary


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

California Jim said:


> With John Lennon smiling down from heaven...
> 
> (cue music) POWER TO THE PEOPLE.....POWER TO THE PEOPLE RIGHT NOW !....
> 
> ...


YOU GO MISTER!!!!! AWESOME!


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

common sense rules


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

*Congratulations Jim! WHOO HOO!!!  *








To you, and to the great country we live in and allows such public debate!
Our founding fathers did a pretty good job, didn't they?!

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## jlbabb28 (Feb 27, 2006)

A VICTORY for California RV owners!

Jeff


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## matty1 (Mar 7, 2005)

we always say RV'ers are in general a great bunch of people...glad to hear. I personally love taking a long walk with the DW and seeing who has an RV parked out back, or out front, or wherever they can. I understand the safety issue if in the street or right of way, if not and it is registered and owned by the property owner, then leave me alone.


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## ED_RN (Jun 25, 2006)

Congratulations Jim. I live in Ventura. They restricted on street parking a year ago. I can see having the same fight here soon. Again congratulations.


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## Kenstand (Mar 25, 2004)

Congratulations. It was super that all the RV owners stuck together.

How did the RV community get the notice out for everyone to attend the meeting? In my town it seems like I am always finding out about these types of issues after the meeting occurs.

Your description of the meeting is great. It sounded like one of those 'feel good' Disney movie endings.


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Kenstand said:


> It sounded like one of those 'feel good' Disney movie endings.


Funny, I was thinking the same thing! It truly was.

After having some essentially unannounced discussion about the issue back on August 2nd where a few RV haters showed up, and nobody else, they decided that the issue should be advertised to better get both sides opinions. The city added the meeting info to their newsletter, and also ran info about it on our city cable TV station. Also, one RV owner printed flyers and delivered them to alot of RV owners by driving around the city.

I think they got the opinions they were looking for


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Congrats, Jim!!!

Must have been some night!!!! I LOVE IT when this stuff works like its supposed to!!!!

Ringing that bell today, I'll bet.


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## OVTT (Mar 31, 2006)

California Jim said:


> With John Lennon smiling down from heaven...
> 
> (cue music) POWER TO THE PEOPLE.....POWER TO THE PEOPLE RIGHT NOW !....
> 
> ...


RIGHT ON BROTHER!


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## nonny (Aug 14, 2005)

WooHoo! Thanks for having the courage to stand up for what you believe in and the sense to sit down when less is best! You the man!!


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

Excellent! Great job everyone did standing up for what's right in a legal, civil way. Democracy - aint it great?


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## willie226 (Apr 4, 2006)

Congrats, Jim!!!
















willie


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## Lady Di (Oct 28, 2005)

Congratulations on maintaining the status quo.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Thanks for the follow up Jim, I now feel good even though it was not my city but if it ever is I will do what ever I have to, to let every RV know about it. Power to the people!


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## happycamper (Jul 26, 2005)

OMG!!









Way to go!! Oh Yeah baby!! Good Job Jim!!


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Jim,
Congratulations on your well earned victory. Your story was so good, I read it three times!








Dawn


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

skippershe said:


> Your story was so good, I read it three times!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Excellent ! cuz it comes out in paperback this fall, then to the big screen in the spring. Hope it will be the family feel good hit of the season







It _was _ awsome though


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

Congrats Jim on a mission well done









Don


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

I forgot to mention one interesting coincidence that happened at this meeting.

There was only 1 other item on the agenda before the commssion got to our RV parking issue. It was the proposed demolition of an existing 120,000 square foot industrial building, and allowing a developer to re-develop the area. The existing building located at 15949 Piuma Ave. Cerritos CA was constructed in 1968 as the new home for......the Airstream Corporation. Yes, the very place where the travel trailers were built !!

And now you know......the REST of the story









1970 Airstream built in Cerritos CA


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Oh yeah, and the local paper finally got around to printing the results of the meeting today

Angry RV Owners


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