# 21rs Towed By A 05 Land Rover Lr3 V8 - 113" Whlbse



## schafari (Aug 26, 2006)

Hello. I have a family of two adults and three kids under four. (4, 2, and 4mnths.) We are tent campers, but now with all of us, we need a hard side camper. Coming from a tent, space is not a huge concern. I believe the Outback 21RS is as perfect for our situation as I can get. However, I don't know about my only tow vehicle.

I have an 05' Land Rover LR3 HSE with the V8. It has great brakes, and I'll get the Prodigy brake controller. It has an air suspension, and it cannot use any WDH. (Trust me, it can't) The truck weighs just a bit under 6Klbs. It can tow 7,700lbs, and a max tongue of 500. It has a wheelbase of 113", which is my biggest concern.

I am new to towing, and don't want white knuckle driving. I don't want anything larger than the 21RS. Coming from hike in tent camping, I know how to truly pack light. I just have a nagging concern that the LR may or may not tow this camper.

The truck is very heavy and well built. It stops from 60 in less than many sports cars. It has 300+ HP and 315 ft-lbs of torque. Is 113" of wheelbase and 6K lbs of truck enough to safely control the 21RS? It has a short rear overhang, with about 29" from back of rear tire to back of bumper.

I don't have an option to get a truck or better tow vehicle, or get rid of the LR3. With your knowledge, would you tow the 21RS lightly loaded with the LR3? I want to be in the position of "not really knowing the trailer is behind me. . ."

Thanks for the help.


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

schafari said:


> Hello. I have a family of two adults and three kids under four. (4, 2, and 4mnths.) We are tent campers, but now with all of us, we need a hard side camper. Coming from a tent, space is not a huge concern. I believe the Outback 21RS is as perfect for our situation as I can get. However, I don't know about my only tow vehicle.
> 
> I have an 05' Land Rover LR3 HSE with the V8. It has great brakes, and I'll get the Prodigy brake controller. It has an air suspension, and it cannot use any WDH. (Trust me, it can't) The truck weighs just a bit under 6Klbs. It can tow 7,700lbs, and a max tongue of 500. It has a wheelbase of 113", which is my biggest concern.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the club.









Now, I have to give you my honest opinion.

I would not trust that rig to transport my family. Yes, it can tow it. However, If you can not distribute the weight, it is going to be a nasty ride. The short wheelbase is another issue. You could use a Hensley, but since you can not use a WD hitch due to the airsystem.....You see my point..

Good luck in you decision making......Please think about your family when deciding to tow.

Happy Outbacking!

Tim


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

Welcome schafari to the site
anything will tow a TT but towing safely is another thing
You will know its there without having a WDH to tranfer the weight
Then you have the tongue weight you say 500 on the LR3 that will but too close for me
Why can't you use one?
Just my $.02

Don


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Don't do it.

If you absolutely can't do anything with the TV, look at something lighter.

The tongue weight alone will put your Land Rover to its knees. Do not believe the weights on the website, they are low.

Steve


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## Camping Fan (Dec 18, 2005)

schafari said:


> Hello. I have a family of two adults and three kids under four. (4, 2, and 4mnths.) We are tent campers, but now with all of us, we need a hard side camper. Coming from a tent, space is not a huge concern. I believe the Outback 21RS is as perfect for our situation as I can get. However, I don't know about my only tow vehicle.


Welcome to OBers schafari!







Much as we all love our Outbacks, the last thing any of us want to see is someone pulling more trailer than their tow vehicle can safely handle. Given the limitations of your TV short wheelbase and not being able to use a WDH, have you considered getting a pop-up rather than a hard side camper? That would get you off the ground, give you more room than with a tent, plus you'll have a fridge and a stove, even AC if you want. Just seems like a PU would be a safer option for you right now. Then when a new TV is a possibility, you can get one big enough to pull the Outback of your dreams.


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## schafari (Aug 26, 2006)

Unfortunately, a WDH cannot be used on the LR3 air suspension, as the suspension ECU will continue try to re-balance the air pressure in the springs/shocks due to the WDH constantly trying to push weight to the front of the trunk. In essence, the WDH confuses the ECU and consequently, it tells the air in the front springs to constantly adjust. You quickly over heat the compressor, it shuts down, and the ECU sends an error code.


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

You can pull a 21RS, but you're not gonna like it.
please think twice.


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## schafari (Aug 26, 2006)

Just double checked the specs on the LR3. Actually the max tongue weight is 550lbs. The vehicle weight is 5,796 lbs. It has 1,325 lbs of max payload. This gives a GVWR of 7,121 lbs. Total body length is 190" and the track/width is 63.5". And it has 113.5" of wheelbase. . .

Note, this wheelbase is only about 10" shorter than the Nissan Armada's. Plus, the LR3 weighs about 400lbs more than the Armada and has a wee bit more HP. I have seen that some are pulling the 26RS with the Armada. The 26RS has 4' more wind exposure, 600lbs more weight, and about 170lbs more tongue weight than the 21RS.

For those that tow with the Armada, how is the towing? Do you feel that the trailer needs a bigger truck, or does it tow just fine?

From a pure weight perspective, I think I am OK; however, I do not want the trailer pushing the back of the truck around at all. I'll likely use a sway control, but no WDH.

(Of course, I could just tow with the Honda Odyssey. . .)


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## BlueWedge (Sep 11, 2005)

Not sure if you have read this Towing tips


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

schafari said:


> Just double checked the specs on the LR3. Actually the max tongue weight is 550lbs. The vehicle weight is 5,796 lbs. It has 1,325 lbs of max payload. This gives a GVWR of 7,121 lbs. Total body length is 190" and the track/width is 63.5". And it has 113.5" of wheelbase. . .
> 
> Note, this wheelbase is only about 10" shorter than the Nissan Armada's. Plus, the LR3 weighs about 400lbs more than the Armada and has a wee bit more HP. I have seen that some are pulling the 26RS with the Armada. The 26RS has 4' more wind exposure, 600lbs more weight, and about 170lbs more tongue weight than the 21RS.
> 
> ...


Where do you live? Will you be towing over mountains or just flat land?

Do you dry camp or go to full hook-up sites? This is important as you will either be carrying water or not.


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## Grunt0311 (Aug 23, 2005)

I think the bottom line here is you said you cant use a wdh with this tv. In my humble opinion, you should not be towing any tt without a wdh. Sorry for the bad news. Those with the armada are using a wdh.

Bill


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

*Welcome to Outbackers, schafari!*








I'm glad you found us, and are asking these questions before you buy! Smart!

Unfortunetely, I am going to have to agree with the others. That Land Rover, beautiful as it is, is an accident waiting to happen trying to pull a full size travel trailer. The short wheelbase is a killer (literally) to start with, and if you can't even add a W/D-Anti-sway hitch to mitigate some of that... Well... I for one would really rather not be reading about you in the morning newspaper!

If another tow vehicle is not possible, I would suggest looking at a pop-up as a compromise. They sure beat sleeping on the ground, and you could easily tow one.

Good luck in your quest!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## TNOutbacker (Apr 23, 2005)

I can speak from experience that you will not like towing with the Land Rover. I had a Land Rover Discovery as a TV with my first TT. It was the scariest towing experience that I have ever had.







The sway was almost to the point of being uncontrollable. The Land Rover has plenty of power and torgue to handle the weight that you are looking at but the short wheelbase is a recipe for disaster. Without a WDH you will be nose high and even more out of control. Please don't make this mistake. Either wait until you are in a position to get a different TV or purchase a pop-up. I don't remember the length of my TT, I beleive it was 23-24' and it was a lightweight Springdale. Luckily, I dealt with a very honest dealer and he gave me a trade in that was the same as what I paid for the TT out the door. As for the Land Rover, I was able to sell it for KBB Private Party retail. The upside of this experience is that I am the owner of a Outback 28FRLS and a Dodge 2500 Quad Cab. If you are looking for something that you will not know is back there when you are towing look into a 5er.


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## outback21 (Jun 17, 2006)

I didnt even want to tow a 21RS w/ an '06 Mountaineer (114" wheelbase), so we bought an Expedition to replace it. It tows great. I would be very nervous about towing w/ 113" and no WDH.


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## BlueWedge (Sep 11, 2005)

Just kind of curious, would a Hensley be recommended in this situation ?


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## bweiler (Sep 20, 2005)

BlueWedge said:


> Just kind of curious, would a Hensley be recommended in this situation ?


I would think a Hensley would still distribute weight the same as any other w/d hitch - and cause the same issues with the air suspension.


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## Not Yet (Dec 13, 2004)

bweiler said:


> Just kind of curious, would a Hensley be recommended in this situation ?


I would think a Hensley would still distribute weight the same as any other w/d hitch - and cause the same issues with the air suspension.
[/quote]

Yes a HA has built in WD. Although it would be possible to use the hitch without tightening the WD bars but I still would not recommend the set up. If you want to investigate more you could ask the dealer to let you hook up a TT and see how much the air ride levels the truck. Even better would be to take the LR to a scale weigh each axle empty then again with the TT. You will probably find a large change in the weights on each axle. As has the Hensley goes it is designed to use the WD bars.

Jared


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

schafari said:


> Note, this wheelbase is only about 10" shorter than the Nissan Armada's.


First off, 10 inches of wheelbase means a lot in a tow vehicle...

Secondly, with you wanting to tow a heavy tongue weight with no weight distribution system is going to be a major factor.

Yes, you have airbags that will level your TV, but that isn't shifting weight to the front axle.

Makes me wonder why you couldn't run a WDh when guys here tow with Yukons and Tahoes with auto level??







Different system I guess.

Steve


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

The 21RS has a 700 lb tongue with normal camping load. That has been re-confimed several times on this site. Actually I have even seen more depending how some packed.


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## wingnut (Mar 21, 2005)

OK, I'm goin to chime in here and get a lot of people mad. First WB doesn't mean a thing, now calm down and let me finish. I work with over size vehicles every day. tractors with 180" wheel base pulling 70' over length loads. As far as the wheel base that does not bother me. Next Weight Distribution. That makes a HUGE difference, the reason we can haul the big loads is because they are loaded correctly and the WD is right on. I mean right on. The LR is a fine vehicle with a great rep. It's the darn air system that kills it. It works on all four corners of the vehicle. It will pump the rear hard trying to keep it level and soften the steering. That leads to the third issue. Sway. Without the load being properly distrbuted you will have a sway problem no way around it. The short WB exagerates the problem it does not cause it. if you are determined to do this; which I don't agree with; then I would get with a SERVICE man in the dealership and see if there is a way to circumvent the air ride, or at least trick it into thinking it's level. Then use a WD hitch and sway bars. without it you are taking a big risk with precious cargo.


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## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

schafari said:


> Unfortunately, a WDH cannot be used on the LR3 air suspension, as the suspension ECU will continue try to re-balance the air pressure in the springs/shocks due to the WDH constantly trying to push weight to the front of the trunk. In essence, the WDH confuses the ECU and consequently, it tells the air in the front springs to constantly adjust. You quickly over heat the compressor, it shuts down, and the ECU sends an error code.


 ok let think about this. If the hitch is set up correctly it will work with the air system. If front and the rear go down the same amount. what would there be to balance?


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