# Packing A Firearm



## railroader (Feb 19, 2012)

Folks,

The wife and I are about to retire and drive our Outback all over the US.

My buddy says bring a gun.

We're not really gun people.

And we're not planning to stay places where we expect to get robbed.

But on the other hand, that's not always so easy to avoid.

So....if we did bring a gun, which gun to bring? A rifle? Or a handgun? And where the heck to store the thing?

If I ever had to use the thing, it'd be the worst day of my life.

Any advice?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

You will get plenty of suggestions but as a reminder to everyone, No Politics one way or the other on this topic or it goes away.


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## railroader (Feb 19, 2012)

CamperAndy said:


> You will get plenty of suggestions but as a reminder to everyone, No Politics one way or the other on this topic or it goes away.


I'm not looking for politics. Just want to talk about safety.


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## outbackmac (Feb 1, 2005)

first will you get a concealled carry permit?

second know the law which you will travel, i do have a permit and had to leave mine at home on a recent trip south.

third if you feel it will be the worst day of ur life then DONT get one.


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## outback loft (Sep 22, 2008)

I am going to say go for a rifle, permitting laws for a pistol vary greatly from state to state. Don't get caught in NY with a pistol and an out of state permit.


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## Jewellfamily (Sep 25, 2010)

If your not really a gun type and dont shoot much (or at all), a shotgun might be a good option if its for protection only. Think something simple, like maybe a double barrel stagecoach type one. They're simple, short, mechanical hammers, you dont have to be accurate, just pointing in the general direction....a pump action one might also be a good choice. I personally have a Springfield XD .45 ACP pistol, but dont know that I would recommend that if your not much of a gun type. In any case, a brief course on firearm safety is always a good idea whether your experienced with them or not.


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## KTMRacer (Jun 28, 2010)

Since your not a "gun person" and If your going to carry, I'd suggest first learning to use it and practice enough that you are a good marksman. Doesn't do much good if you can't shoot straight. Then decide if you really want to carry.

If your concerned, you might consider carrying MACE. I carry MACE in the truck and in the trailer. In the trailer it is in a quick release holder near the entry door for quick and easy access if the time ever comes that I would need to use it. In the truck it is in the drivers door storage bin for easy access.

Last thing you want to do is get caught for "concealed carry" without having a permit. And states vary a great deal in what is accepted or if concealed carry is even legal.

Since gun laws vary a great deal from state to state, you do want to know regulations for each state your in.

And if your planning on ever heading to Canada, you definitely DON'T want to be going into Canada with any handgun. You might end up in prison and loose your truck and trailer. Even bringing a rifle into Canada is lots of paperwork before you cross the border.


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## railroader (Feb 19, 2012)

Mace...hmmm...good idea. Better than a gun.

Where is it sold?


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## Jewellfamily (Sep 25, 2010)

Mace actually is a pretty good idea if your not a gun person. Actual Mace is usually a law enforcement grade of repellent isnt it. It basically works the same as pepper spray, but I think its a little more heavy duty than your standard pepper spray. If you want actual Mace, you might check with your local sherriff's office. If pepper spray is what your after, and is probably good enough, most sportsman stores (cabellas, Scheels, etc...) will have it and I think even wal-mart sells it.


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## KTMRacer (Jun 28, 2010)

railroader said:


> Mace...hmmm...good idea. Better than a gun.
> 
> Where is it sold?


Just about any sporting goods store, gun shop, will have an assortment of MACE or similar, pepper spray etc. options. And you can use it if needed on animals while hiking if you should get in a situation. Different localities may have different regulations on it's sale, but you can get some pretty strong stuff in most places. Strong enough to be a big deterent and protection.


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## W.E.BGood (Jan 15, 2011)

As a retired LEO, here are my opinions on YOUR circumstances:

The Mace (pepper spray) is a good defense option...against an unarmed assailant, PERIOD. It may give you time to run away.

If you don't first get the training (important***GOOD QUALITY*** defensive firearms training), you won't understand the dynamics and legalities of being prepared to shoot and destroy a human being.

If you do choose to get a firearm, a simple pump shotgun is probably a best/first choice as long-gun laws across the country are much less restrictive than handgun laws, and they are THE most effective in terms of intimidation factor, accuracy at close range, and ability to quickly disable the offender.

WHEN you get the training, a REVOLVER is a good first choice handgun as opposed to a semi-auto, for safety and simplicity of operation.

It's a BIG decision, but do you choose to be a victim, or a survivor?

Regards, BGood


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

I'm not opposed to guns, I have all sorts of them. I bring my Glock camping and when riding our dirt bikes....as we are in bear country and who knows what type of yahoo's are out there too.

In your case, I'd suggest shotgun, as it takes almost no training and EVERYONE know the sound of a shotgun shell being racked into the chamber.

Another option you might consider is a dog. Great companion...good for walks...buddy around the campground....and they BARK at the door when they hear something. Sometime that is all it would take to defer someone from trying to get into your trailer.


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

First of all, I'm assuming you don't have any children on board. Secondly, I do carry a pistol with me, and I know how to use it, as I grew up around guns. Third, you need to decide whether or not you'd be able to use it, IF the occasion ever arose. Otherwise, you may be, unwittingly, providing your assailant with a firearm, to use again you and your wife.
As far as MACE? THAT SMELL WON'T GO AWAY, FOREVER!! Believe me.....I worked at a state mental hospital, and a patient barricaded himself in our office, and the security guards tried to overcome him with MACE!! The patient did fine! OUR eyes, the people who worked in the office, however, were burning and stinging for days, even after the carpet was cleaned, everything was cleaned.........it just kept lingering!
I read a magazine article, in AARP, that suggested using Wasp & Hornet Spray. It has an accurate aim for over 20', and will certainly make someone stop and think about getting any closer! It's legal, it's not suspicious sitting around (they suggested having it all over the place!!LOL), and it doesn't require any special training or life-changing decisions.
They make alarms for RVs, and, you can pick up the stick-on kind at The Dollar Tree or places similar, that you switch on/off, as needed. 
Some of the best advice I think I can give you, is to sit down with your wife, and talk this over, and come to your OWN decision. Maybe your buddies think carrying a gun is the way to go, and it may be, for them. It may not be for you. Nobody, on here, wants to take a life, but if you're forced to make a decision between taking someone's life, or letting someone else take the life of someone you love.......that's the bottom line, and what you and your wife need to discuss.
If you do decide to go with a firearm, my suggestion would be a 22 or 25 pistol. It will injure someone, and stop them, but probably not kill them. A rifle is too easy for an assailant to grab, IMHO.
If you're traveling the US, be aware that firearm permits are, usually only good for the state you live in, and those immediately touching them will usually honor them. But, I wouldn't really worry about that, if your only plan is to defend yourself with the firearm.
Good luck, and God bless!
Darlene


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## Chuggs (Jun 8, 2010)

I'm onboard!

The posts above reflect a lot of very very valid points!

There's a BIG difference in using a "GUN" for sport vs. a "WEAPON" for defense. Some firearms can fit into both categories depending on the type of ammunition used.

FIRST... Find yourself a GOOD range, with qualified trainers. THEY can work with you to find the right "FIT" for your needs.

SECOND... Take a general gun course. This will make you and your wife a WHOLE lot more comfortable handling a firearm. SAFETY! SAFETY! SAFETY! If you don't start by learning the RULES of SAFE FIREARM Handling FIRST, you could wind up like the idiot unfortunate individual in Florida last week that went to show his wife the new LASER sight he put on his assault rifle. Showed her how bright it was by lasing her chest...and unfortunately discharged a round killing her, while their child was nearby taking a bath. SAD... You can go into any gun store and buy these things without ANY training. A little pamplet, that maybe never gets read and understood is in the box somewhere. It just makes sense to learn the RULES...and learn some Gun Etiquitte.

THIRD... Take a self-defense gun course. You'll learn how to handle your weapon...and more importantly YOURSELF...in an adrenaline infused, high stress situation. When you're defending your life...the adrenaline release in your body basically shuts down the cognitive part of the brain. You have to rely on a different part of the brain that is ONLY as good as the training you recieve. Muscle memory. You learn on the range how to identify and engage the threat. If you repeat this enough...you'll be better equiped to handle a situation should it unfortunately ever present itself.

FOURTH... Now you've got the foundation for making an informed choice of what firearm you really would like to have for the situation. If you bought one up in STEP 1...you might be experiencing buyer's remorse around about now. Buy your weapon...learn how to take it apart, clean it, an go practice with it on a regular basis. Defensive Weapon use is a PERISHIBLE skill. Practice!

FIFTH... Make sure you have a place to SECURE your weapon. As a gun owner you have a responsibilty to yourself and others to make sure that this weapon does not get into the wrong hands. Primarily those of a child! The day your Grandson accidentally shoots a sibling...will probably be the worst day of your life...and you'll regret ever brining a firearm home. It CAN be PREVENTED!! You have to have an AWARENESS!! It's not like leaving your wallet and keys somewhere and forgetting them. A RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER knows exactly where his/her firearms are 24 hrs a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year! You can't be complacent...it only take a minute for something very BAD to happen.

REMEMBER

ALWAYS TREAT A GUN AS THOUGH IT IS LOADED
ALWAYS POINT THE GUN IN A SAFE DIRECTION - NEVER AT SOMEONE OR SOMETHING YOU DON"T INTEND TO SHOOT
ALWAYS KNOW YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEHIND IT

NEVER PLACE YOUR FINGER ON THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO SHOOT

THERE IS NO DO OVER ONCE YOU MAKE THE DECISION TO PULL THE TRIGGER --- A BULLET CANNOT BE "RECALLED"

.....

The list goes on and on...

Teach children...if they ever find a firearm...to leave it alone and go tell and adult!

If you are being handed a firearm to inspect...or you are handing another person a firearm to inspect... Do a clearing procedure so that both of you can see the firearm is CLEARED...and if possible...hand it to them with the action opened.

I've always been taught to handle a firearm like you would a knife or ax... the person presenting the firearm doesn't let go until the person recieving has positively, accepted it...we signal this by saying "Thank You"...

If you're not sure the other person knows this...set it down on a table and let them pick it up. It just prevents dropping the firearm.

Be very careful that you only use the correct ammunition for your firearm.

Be very careful that you maintain your weapon. A plugged barrel could spell disaster!

Always wear Eye and EAR protection when practicing!

ANYONE...I MEAN ANYONE...that sees an unsafe situation on the practice range can call CEASE FIRE!!

My deepest apologies for going off on the subject. It just makes me SAD as all get out when I read stories about accidents. Accidents which I feel every gun owner has a responsibilty to one another to emphasize SAFETY whenever we get the opportunity. If a little bell goes off in your head everytime you see a firearm...those "SAFETY RULES" come to mind. Then it was worth the time I spent typing it today. Thanks for listening!!


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## W.E.BGood (Jan 15, 2011)

And...I second Chuggs' post. Good start on a firearms safety course.


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

I'd go the shotgun route. There is a model called "The Defender". It has a short barrel so its easier to wield in a confined space like your RV, you don't need a carry license and it's not expensive. You don't have to be a great shot, in fact nothing gives a miscrient pause more than the sound of a pump action shotgun on a quite dark night.

Regards, Glenn


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

I agree with the dog (especially big dogs-they are very intimidating), pepper spray/mace/wasp spray. As far as a gun goes I don't disagree with the idea, I own guns. But if you are not a gun owner now and are not a gun "person" there is alot more to it then just buying one. You will need training and knowledge of laws. Then once you acquire a little information you will need to do some soul searching and discussing with your wife to see where you stand on the issue. There are just too many possible scenarios to be prepared for anything and everything. As far as shotgun vs handgun there many pros and cons to both. Depends on the situation you find yourself facing. Shotgun is very simple point and shoot and because it sprays pellets its hard to miss. (but there is one very lucky rabbit from last Sunday who will disagree lol). But no matter how short it is it would still be hard to swing inside a camper. A handgun fires a bullet that you must be able to place on your target in a high adrenaline situation. And if you miss you must think about where the bullet will go. It can even pass thru walls. A laser sight might be a good idea. This is a very deep and personal decision that you just cannot make without ALOT of information.


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## mmblantz (Jul 1, 2007)

Our local sheriff's office offers firearms safety courses. Maybe yours can steer you towards one. We always carry when traveling, at least a pump shotgun and a couple of handguns. Here is a book that may help you in your travels http://www.gunlaws.com/travel.htm ----Mike


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## railroader (Feb 19, 2012)

Thanks everyone for your excellent discussion. Just plain good education. That alone will keep me coming back to this forum. And I'm a newcomer.....we're picking up our 1st Outback in 2 weeks.

Great suggestions on hornet spray and the lingering smell of mace.

Great suggestion on the dog. We have one, but he's a little yipper.....not too much of a deterrent.....but yips at anyone walking by.

I like the suggestion of a loud alarm. A panic button inside would be good....for times when you're in side and you hear a prowler outside.

I'm glad you brought up the concept of not thinking straight when under a high adrenaline state. What worries me is I haven't a clue how my wife would perform under those conditions. Not good I'm sure.

Can you please comment on gun storage in an RV? A gun safe (very heavy)? A gun rack? A locked case that's clearly visible? And if pulled over....I assume you tell the police officer first thing?


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

Just curious - has anybody here ever had to take out their weapon, or use it in an emergency situation? I'm sure that folks have been pretty much over most of this country and have camped in all sorts of different environments.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Insomniak said:


> Just curious - has anybody here ever had to take out their weapon, or use it in an emergency situation? I'm sure that folks have been pretty much over most of this country and have camped in all sorts of different environments.


That's a great question. Personally, I've travelled coast to coast and never had the need for a gun for personal defense. I try to be aware of my surroundings and have passed up camping locations that didn't feel right. However, I still would have passed them up if I had a gun. Last I checked there were regs even for carrying rifles and shotguns in some states and you could end up in trouble even if you're trying to follow the rules. For all of these reasons I choose to leave my guns at home locked up and keep my cell phone nearby instead.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Insomniak said:


> Just curious - has anybody here ever had to take out their weapon, or use it in an emergency situation? I'm sure that folks have been pretty much over most of this country and have camped in all sorts of different environments.


Twice, but never fired.

One time when hiking, we encountered a black bear and her cubs. I saw them first and had my gun out and ready in case it went the wrong way....it didn't, but I was ready. The gun is loaded with Sheriff issued hollow point rounds, so I will stop/kill a bear. I've fired about 2500 rounds from this gun, so I'm fairly accurate.









Second time, we were about 20 miles away from camp on motorcycles, wife gets a flat tire. I leave glock with my wife and head back to camp. Along comes 3 grown men in a pickup truck, who say they are sighting hunting spots for the upcoming season. Gun is clearly visible on seat of motorcycle, between wife (who's standing next to motorcycle) and 3 guys in the truck. They leave...no issue, but I'm sure they saw the gun. I'm hoping they were indeed just looking for nice hunting locations and there was never any reason to be concerned, but knowing it was there gave me piece of mind.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Nathan said:


> For all of these reasons I choose to leave my guns at home locked up and keep my cell phone nearby instead.


Nathan...you'd need to go all Ninja







on them and nail them in the head with your cell phone, because were we camp there is no cell phone coverage.

You'd need to drive 30-45 mins in order to get coverage.


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## raynardo (Jun 8, 2007)

First off, a disclaimer. I own a pistol and have taken it camping with me.

Having said that, in all my time camping - 45 years, I've never even had to even think about using a weapon - except once, when I was 17 I was camping in a tent in Yellowstone, my buddy and I left a bag of pretzels on the picnic table when we finally went to sleep. We woke to the sound of the bear munching on those pretzels just a few feet from our heads. I didn't have a gun along, remember it's illegal in national parks, but I had a claw hammer in my hand and my buddy a hatchet - we weren't going without a fight. Fortunately after finishing the bag the bear continued on his marauding ways only to end up in a bear trap, where he really made some noise.

I'd recommend against carrying a gun. It just isn't necessary. Think of how many news reports you've heard of violence against people in campgrounds over the past few years. I'm hard pressed to think of any. It's just too rare.

And if the need ever arose, you will have to be a person who is willing to pull the trigger on another human, since if you're aiming your gun a someone you have to be willing to shoot him.

You don't need one.


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## Chuggs (Jun 8, 2010)

Storage...

At home, I use a gun safe. Weighing in at 700lbs it's not likely to just up a walk away.

When traveling...I'm in the habit of using a steel lock box, or Pac Safe Travel Safe 100. These methods are designed to keep honest people from accessing the firearm without your permission. A true thief would make short work of them.

".<>..lock the firearm and magazines of ammunition in a ...<>...lockbox and secure the lockbox in a place and manner that, to the maximum extent practicable, prevents an unauthorized person, especially a child, from viewing it or gaining access to it. "

With that passage in mind...I think you can look around a bit and find a place that is suitable.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

raynardo said:


> And if the need ever arose, you will have to be a person who is willing to pull the trigger on another human, since if you're aiming your gun a someone you have to be willing to shoot him.


If it is "him" or someone in my family, I'd have no issue.


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## Grover (Jul 19, 2010)

I have a spare tire on the back of my 5th wheel. Never used it.

I have a comprehensive insurance policy on my 5th wheel. Never used it.

I carry a concealed pistol. Have for 40 years. Never used it in self defense.

I am not about to venture out without any of the above. Personal choice.

Where I live the response times for the law enforcement folks is about 45 minutes. Not good in an emergency.

If you are going to have a firearm available to use, I recommend a minimum of $1,000,000.00, that's a million dollar, liability policy. If you were to shoot someone, you will find yourself in court and under the microscope for each breath you drew during the encounter. You must be educated, not only in how to handle a firearm, but also how to handle a shooting incident before and after you have pulled the trigger. It is a grave responsibility. Yes, it is life or death for ALL involved.

Think it over, do a lot of research, go to a professional trainer for advice. Notice I did not say the guy behind the counter at the local big box sporting goods store. Talk to some of the local law enforcement officers. Talk to your local DA about citizen shooting incidents. Make an educated choice. Don't just grab a gun and stick it under the bed or under the pillow on the couch. Be prepared for all situations and circumstances.


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## raynardo (Jun 8, 2007)

I didn't say there weren't any incidents, just few and far between. In the first example it was an armed ranger murdered during a traffic stop. It was terrible, but her gun didn't save her.

On the other hand, I've used my spare tire three times in the past three years. I guess I get out a bunch further camping every year, we've done 55,000 miles and 40 states and two Canadian provinces since 2006 .I'd be foolish not to have a spare. My point being you'll more likely need your spare than your gun. And I'm sure if you had the choice of one or the other you'd pick the spare (tell me I'm right).

Insurance is a good thing, and some of it is entirely mandatory when traveling upon public roads. An RV may be the second most expensive item an owner has after his brick and mortar home. Insurance prevents that from become a massive paperweight. Guns haven't become mandatory yet, in fact they're outlawed in many places where we camp.

You're right though when it comes to protecting your family or property. Deadly force may be necessary, but the odds of that are very minuscule. I'm guessing more people are killed by "unloaded" guns than this protection scenario. Then add some alcohol and things really get out of whack. No thanks, from this camper.

Based on that, I've come to the conclusion that guns are not a necessary camping accessory.

To each his or her own. Live and let live, versus, Live and make die.


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

Like I said its a very deep and sensitive issue. It requires alot of information and thought to come to a decision. Raynardo I believe you are right when you say the chance that one of us may have to use deadly force to save our life or that of someone else is slim to none but it does happen. Public shootings for one are happening more often. Google Chardon OH High School and you'll see it just happened again this morning. 4 injured so far. You'll probably see it on tonight's news anyway. So while logically I agree with your thinking, I will still be prepared anyway, and yes it saddens me that we have to think this way.

Here's an article about an attack on a middle age woman in a park across the road from me. Now we live in the country where its "peaceful". This woman was walking the park trails around 2 oclock in the afternoon in broad daylight. The part that really shook us up is that my wife comes home from work around 4 oclock and would walk alone everyday on those same trails. An attack like that will probably never happen again but now I walk with her or she doesnt go. Just reading this article still brings chills after 5 years.

http://www.morningjournal.com/articles/2009/11/10/news/mj1868056.txt

This just happened in Oklahoma and made the national news.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/01/okla-teen-mom-kills-intruder-/1#.T0ub6YerTZA

You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that, even somewhat side with it. But please don't try to belittle the opinion of the otherside as though they have no merit or are somehow the cause of any problems. This issue is just so deep and dividing we have to take care not to offend. Law abiding gun owners are not the problem and non law abiding gun owners are going to have them anyway.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

I agree a very passionate topic









Does seem like more of these issues happen on Public lands - National/State/County parks and campgrounds.......... simply an observation/opinion.......at least the heinous/random type events.......the ones i see at paid campgrounds usually involve some type of underlying domestic issue........ I guess i am thinking that the remoteness of some of the area's may help facilitate it to some degree.......... or make the Perpetrator think he may be able to get away with his crime more easily????? considering you aren't supposed to be able to have a weapon there????

Seems a shame this is the world we live in..........

We do a majority of our camping on/at private campgrounds..........


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## railroader (Feb 19, 2012)

This is a great discussion, and it's giving me a whole lot to think about.

Thanks everyone for your sober and straightforward views.

It is sad we live in a time when discussions on this topic are needed.

After reading everybody's comments, I'm leaning towards no gun. And instead getting hornet spray and a loud alarm system with panic button.

I like the comment about the legal system putting the RV self defender under a microscope. Hadn't thought of that.

For me, I can't envision many scenarios where I might encounter an intruder. One might be at a campground while sleeping inside the RV, and I hear a prowler rummaging about the campsite, possibly breaking into my TV. In that situation, a loud alarm system would be great...we could activate by a panic button inside the RV. Not so sure my little yipper dog would do the trick. Maybe I need a tape recording of a German Shepherd. Good lighting around the RV would help too. I just can't imagine a scenario in which a stranger would knock on the door and we'd let him in.

Other than that, I think we'd just try to use common sense where we choose to park. Like not staying overnite in a rest area.

I'll just stop with a brief story.  I moved to Michigan from Iowa. Upon driving through Michigan for the first time, I was blown away by the sheer number of billboards advertising gun shops. Big, huge signs with rifles pictured on them. At first, my wife and I were shocked. We'd travelled all over the US and we'd never seen anything like it. Now that I live here, I don't pay any attention.

Cheers


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

railroader said:


> For me, I can't envision many scenarios where I might encounter an intruder. One might be at a campground while sleeping inside the RV, and I hear a prowler rummaging about the campsite, possibly breaking into my TV. In that situation, a loud alarm system would be great...we could activate by a panic button inside the RV.


Glad you said this above like you did, as under that situation, you would have NO right to fire a weapon at that person. In Oregon it is unacceptable to use deadly force when the action can be avoided by other means aside from retreat or deadly force. Even a "warning shot" can land you behind bars. Deadly force may be used to defend our home, property, life, or a 3rd party whose life is threatened. Major point here is "whose life is threatened".

If you were in your trailer and someone came in...saw you and your gun and decided to run out of the trailer, you can not fire your weapon, as you were no longer threatened. You would also face prison time if you were to continue to fire upon the person if they were on the ground (unless you can prove they were still able to cause risk to you...ie, gun in their hand) As you can see there are many rules and understanding them is a BIG part of being a responsible gun owner.


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## KTMRacer (Jun 28, 2010)

Oregon_Camper said:


> For me, I can't envision many scenarios where I might encounter an intruder. One might be at a campground while sleeping inside the RV, and I hear a prowler rummaging about the campsite, possibly breaking into my TV. In that situation, a loud alarm system would be great...we could activate by a panic button inside the RV.


Glad you said this above like you did, as under that situation, you would have NO right to fire a weapon at that person. [/size] In Oregon it is unacceptable to use deadly force when the action can be avoided by other means aside from retreat or deadly force. Even a "warning shot" can land you behind bars. Deadly force may be used to defend our home, property, life, or a 3rd party whose life is threatened. Major point here is "whose life is threatened".

If you were in your trailer and someone came in...saw you and your gun and decided to run out of the trailer, you can not fire your weapon, as you were no longer threatened. You would also face prison time if you were to continue to fire upon the person if they were on the ground (unless you can prove they were still able to cause risk to you...ie, gun in their hand) As you can see there are many rules and understanding them is a BIG part of being a responsible gun owner. 
[/quote]

yup. and remember how FAR a bullet can travel!! in a campground a errant round in a crowded campground/RV park etc. could end up injuring/killing an innocent bystander 1/2 mile or more away. Not something anyone would want to happen. Even a shotgun has to long of deadly range in a campground.

Way I figure it, loosing something in the trailer or tow vehicle while not something one wants, is at least covered by insurance. Been camping for close to 60 years and have yet to encounter a situation where our safety was in question. In general, I've found campers to be extremely trustworthy and polite, more so than the general population. That said, I have driven by some "RV parks" that were NOT places I would have stopped at! I carry Mace, and like the idea of WASP spray.

*As far as alarms, you've most likely got a very handy one in your tow vehicle. I keep my carkeys on my nightstand, trailer and at HOME. If something came up at night, hit the panic button on the car keys and the car alarm goes off. during the day, carkeys are in my pocket, panic button close by.*


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## railroader (Feb 19, 2012)

Great suggestions. What a load off. I'm not getting a gun.

I read on another forum (escapees.com) that hornet spray in the eyes causes injury. I haven't posted on that forum, but I read one guy who warned about the intruder suing you if your Hornets spray caused injury. So he said pepper spray was better.

What a world we live in.

Can't wait to get my new Outback. No need for a gun rack.


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## ORvagabond (Apr 17, 2009)

All good advice. I have been planning to find a good bear spray/pepper spray container with a holster that I can velco someplace convenient and I am adding a shotgun holder to a closet. Carrying a handgun is very risky and you can go here to see the state laws:
http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

BTW...thanks to everyone that replied to this conversation and kept it informational not political.


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## Ridgway-Rangers (Apr 18, 2008)

I am in law enforcement and love to see this type of discussion. I do carry most of the time but when it comes to people who are on thefence about carrying I make the decision easy for them. The choice to carry is always out there butthe decision to use the firearm on another person is final. Most importantlyyou do not want the weapon taken from you and used against you or yourfamily. 

I encourage people tocarry a TASER C-2. This uses the same technology as law enforcement TASERs. The probes fire 15 feet providing 30 secondsof incapacitation to facilitate your escape or capture of the bad guy. The threshold for you to use a TASER is muchless. Simply fearing for your safety will suffice. A gun however, usually requires a fear for your life.

TASER C-2. Look into it!

Brian


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Ridgway-Rangers said:


> I am in law enforcement and love to see this type of discussion. I do carry most of the time but when it comes to people who are on thefence about carrying I make the decision easy for them. The choice to carry is always out there butthe decision to use the firearm on another person is final. Most importantlyyou do not want the weapon taken from you and used against you or yourfamily.
> 
> I encourage people tocarry a TASER C-2. This uses the same technology as law enforcement TASERs. The probes fire 15 feet providing 30 secondsof incapacitation to facilitate your escape or capture of the bad guy. The threshold for you to use a TASER is muchless. Simply fearing for your safety will suffice. A gun however, usually requires a fear for your life.
> 
> ...


Another great option. Do they make tasers that can fire more than once? (say you miss the first time??)

Brian...are you and the family coming to Oregon this summer?


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## W.E.BGood (Jan 15, 2011)

The Taser C2 is a one-shot, then you have to remove and replace the cartridge. From a brief internet check, looks like packages run from $350 to $400+, largely depending on how many cartridges come with the package.

Like anything else the Taser has its foibles and limitations...they can easily fail (not the product but by operator or environmental reasons) which can be a huge let-down if you THINK you have all the confidence in the world in it and yourself. It's advertised range is 15 feet...only reasonably guaranteed if you aim very carefully and the target's not moving. Conversely, if you use it in too close proximity the barbs are not sufficiently spread to effect the large muscle group(s) and you risk the bad guy shrugging it off. And if you don't target a large muscle group (preferably the back), you risk the bad guy not being particularly effected and ripping out the barb(s). And if you miss and get only one barb in...doesn't work. And if he/she is wearing heavy or thick downy-padded clothing, the barbs don't penetrate the skin and you'd better run. And if you hit them in the eye...unfortunately you can become the defendant, civil or criminal. Use it on someone and it gives you time to run...you leave the weapon behind. Safety-wise, consider them like a firearm and treat them as same (pointing at others, finger on the trigger, keeping away from kids, etc)

If you get them on target, they typically work great and are very effective.


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