# Help From The Experts On Sway/distro Set Up



## Jay r (Mar 29, 2010)

I have been doing some great research and this forum has really helped, so thank you in advance for your input.

Here is what I have now: 
elite pro star eaz lift -550lb bars ( I know I need 750 or 1000's)
312bh-7400lbs dry 35'
2010 ford f150 supercrew with tow package
I drove this home from the dealer and it seemed fine, but i need safety if i have the family with me.

I am used to the above set up and wanted to just buy new bars and add a stabilizer bar? I was told the above was all i needed, and even though the eaz lift system sais it has a built in sway control, im not convinced. -ALL i want is the absolutely safest way and least amount of sway, but need opinions.

and I will tell you know, buying another tv is out of the question. this truck is 1 month old.

Thanks in advance for the opinions.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Jay r said:


> I have been doing some great research and this forum has really helped, so thank you in advance for your input.
> 
> Here is what I have now:
> elite pro star eaz lift -550lb bars ( I know I need 750 or 1000's)
> ...


I wish I had time to investigate this brand of hitch, but I dont. Will try in the next day or so. You surely will need a 1000lb set of bars for your combo.

Carey


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## john7349 (Jan 13, 2008)

I'm sure Carey is right about needing 1000 lb bars. That is a big TT for a F150.

Your Manufacturer click states you have "Built-in dual sway control ball plates eliminate add on details". This does not mean you have any sway control, just built in ball plates. You need to attach sway control bars to them to have any sway control.

Good luck Jay r


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

I'd concur. At least 1000 lb bars and get the dual friction sway control. Personally, I'd upgrade the hitch, but that's just me.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

I do not think the hitch is adequate for the trailer and the truck is also at its limit (dry weight of the trailer not withstanding) and you will not be happy if you tow any real distance of go to any hill country.

I would start by taking the hitch back to the dealer and asking to trade it in on a hitch that is more in line with the trailer you have. I am guessing they threw in the hitch for free, just ask them to put the value of it towards a Equal-I-Zer or Reese Dual Cam hitch with 1000 or 1200 pound bars. Once that is set up we can then see if you still really like the truck.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

CamperAndy said:


> I do not think the hitch is adequate for the trailer and the truck is also at its limit (dry weight of the trailer not withstanding) and you will not be happy if you tow any real distance of go to any hill country.
> 
> I would start by taking the hitch back to the dealer and asking to trade it in on a hitch that is more in line with the trailer you have. I am guessing they threw in the hitch for free, just ask them to put the value of it towards a Equal-I-Zer or Reese Dual Cam hitch with 1000 or 1200 pound bars. Once that is set up we can then see if you still really like the truck.


I agree with CamperAndy. Been there with an Ford Sport-Trac, Expedition, Chevy 1500HD, and F250 with several different campers. The Expedition, 1500HD and F-250 were all used towing the 31RQS. I now use a Blue-OX with integral sway control.. I had a Valley WDH with 800lb bars and add on sway control, went to 1K bars and it did not do the trick (sway control wise). With the long camper and a vehicle with a relatively short wheel base you NEED to have a Weight Distribution hitch with Sway control. A trip that involves wind, large vehicles or trucks passing you will confirm this. I don't tend to swing black and white on many subjects. But this one, considering the different set ups, vehicles and campers i have owned, I am comfortable in a strong recommendation for a different WDH.

And to echo others the F-150 Crew CabYou may be aware or not, anything above a full load of gas and the driver has to be subtracted from the towing capacity. 8500 is going to get eaten up quickly by passengers/material in the truck and your belongings loaded in the camper. A good rule of thumb is to not exceed 80% of your vehicles capacity. With the proper hitch, sway control and short trips you may be okay, but probably pushing the envelope.

Stay Safe...

Eric


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## daslobo777 (Mar 24, 2007)

Jay r -

What we have here is one very Big Dilemma. I understand completely your new excitement for the "312", that is a great TT. And I also understand completely that the salesman most likely told you "you will be fine towing with your F150". I also understand that getting rid of the 1 month old F150 is most likely very painful, downright not-doable, and out of the question. This site has very knowledgeable people (not including me - mostly the "above" folks). You may be OK with your setup (except I agree at the minimum you need to upgrade the WDH), but you state that "safety" is your upmost importance (as it should be with a family and others on the road). In order for you to be at a high level of "safe" something has to give - either the TT or TV. Only you can make the right choice for you and your family. Start off with upgrading the WDH as recommended above and go from there. Good luck on this (difficult) decision.


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## Jay r (Mar 29, 2010)

Defenately thanks for the input.

We are only going within 2 hours of our area here in Cleveland, and there is very little hills here, and we are only going out about 7 to 8 times this year. I am not parting with this trailer, so getting a used 3/4 ton down the line is certainly a more presentable option.

I traded in the 550 set up for a 1000 bar set up from the dealer where we bought the hitch and got 2 sway bar controllers to see how that acts. I will most likely look into the equilizer and Reese Dual cam set ups as well. I see that its at about 50/50 between the two set ups..

I should have this set up in place for our 1st trip in one week and I will see how it feels, however I am gaining opinions now, because I don't see this set-up being permanent. As for the wife and kids, they will be driving seperately until we get figure everything out.

Thanks all for your input. Greatly appreciated.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I think if its the new 2010 f150 it is much more capable than previous F150s.

This truck is at an even equal with say a pre super duty, like 1995 F250 ford pickup.

Look up the specs for a 1995 351 powered F250. Then look up specs for a 2010 F150. The F150 beats it.

This truck is just as capable as 90's generation F250's. Heck look what those towed.

Get a eq or reese hitch like what Andy said. I think youll be just fine. You are gonna need the hitch perfectly dialed in though. The hitch set up will make or break this combo.

Carey


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## TexanThompsons (Apr 21, 2009)

Jay -

Nice name...so nice in fact we named our oldest son Jay.

As for your setup, I think you're getting the assistance you need. I know its hard to hear that you might be overloaded with your pickup, but I did pull mine for nearly a year with a '03 Expedition. Would not recommend it, but I did it, just at VERY low speeds. Getting the hitch dialed in will indeed make a big difference.

Keep asking questions. You are most definitely in the right place and the right people are helping you out. I know Carey won't say it, but PM him to get more information on some options he has seen to make that rig more tow friendly. He tows RVs for a living so he's got some great expertise!

Welcome aboard! Regardless of how you get there, when you do get to your destination with that beautiful new Outback, you're gonna love it!


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I just went and looked up specs for a 1999 sd F250 5.4 engine. Avg tow ratings are 7-8000lbs.

Without even looking your 2010 f150 is above 9000 lbs tow rating.

I will also bet the gvw ratings are similiar.

The brakes on the f150 are much bigger than a 1995 or even a 1999 F250. The f150 makes way more power than either trucks too.

The tranny is heavier too than 1995-1999 F250's.

The only and ONLY difference is the F250 had a full float rear end versus the 2010 f150 with a semi float. BUT with the invention of GL5 synthetic lubricants one can actually apply just as much weight to a 1995 to 1999 F250 rear end versus a new 2010 f150 rearend.

I would have to send money to get a tow rating printout earlier than 1999, so I cant post the exact specs.

One thing I do know is the 2010 F150 is vastly superior to a mid 90's F250.

Now if we were back in time, you all would be telling Jay he would be fine using a mid 90's F250 to pull a 8000lb bumper pull. Yes you guys would tell Jay he needs a 460/C6 combo in his f250.. lol The 2010 5.4 will out pull an old 460 with the new 6 speed tranny combo in this truck.

Its time to learn about the new 1/2 tons capabilities before downing a guy about his too weak of a truck F150.

I say a F150 will be a PERFECT match to this trailer With the correct wd/sway combo. The mid 90's f250 would also need a top of the line wd/sway combo hitch or it couldnt handle this trailer any better than a 2010 f150.

Every part on this F150 is larger than a mid 90's f250, EXCEPT the rear differential. And as I said with our superior lubricants this is not a problem.

If any can prove me wrong I will make a retraction.

If this was a 2004 to 2009 F150 Id feel similiar to what you guys feel.

But with the new frame, and engine upgrades, the 2010 f150 is every bit as capable as a mid 90's f250. The 2004-2009 f150 was only missing a stronger frame. Its brakes, and other parts were already in line with the mid 90's f250 specs. Actually the f150 can easy out brake a mid 90's f250. The swept braking doesnt even compare. Mid 90's f250's had drum rear brakes.

If you dont get a top quality hitch, your 2010 F150 will act like on overloaded mid 90's F250 or an extremely overloaded 2004-2009 F150.

I have been way busy rolling the miles out. Ive put 30k miles down in 6 weeks. Dont mean to sound mean here, just typing fast, sleep is calling me.

Carey


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## luverofpeanuts (Mar 9, 2010)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> I say a F150 will be a PERFECT match to this trailer With the correct wd/sway combo. The mid 90's f250 would also need a top of the line wd/sway combo hitch or it couldnt handle this trailer any better than a 2010 f150.


I think you make a lot of valid points.... except I do think it is a big stretch to say the F150 will be a PERFECT match. I think the the F150 will probably handle the load for what he has described his usage. I do believe that if this rig is weighed, it will be over the limits unless the tow rig is emptied of most cargo and people...which is what he said he do.

Again...having said all that... we all know people pull over limits all the time....and in all the possible scenarios where it happens....this is by far not even close to the worst case. In fact, if we all didn't sit here picking at the math.... it probably would never be exposed. He would just have a setup that he might feel like upgrading the tow vehicle at some point.

The original posters payload capacity from the factory is at 1050 with a tank of gas a 150 pound driver. My 2006 F250 crew cab king ranch is at 2223 with a tank of gas and at 150 pound driver. That's a huge difference in payload...and much better suited to this load.

I think others have noted as well....that the original poster is asking all the right questions and is going to operate his setup safely ...especially armed with all precautions the forumers here have noted. He'll have a great trailer... and a great truck... maybe not the PERFECT match....but he can operate within his means as many of us have in the past. Perhaps he'll be happy enough to not upgrade. Perhaps he will upgrade the TV after the first month ;-) One way or the other....another voice of experience in 'towing at the limit' will be added to the forum.

now...I'm gong to hit add reply before I go back in see what B.S. I just polluted this thread with ;-) I mean no offense and make no judgments...... I can't help it...I'm an ANALyst through and through.....


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Ok, first, I wouldn't reccomend a mid 90's F250... and Carey, I'm a little confused on your engine notation. CI???? That wouldn't be an archaic english measurement system for displacement would it?









Ok, sorry, back on topic. Yes, the F150 has a great frame and good brakes. The places where it differs are in springs and tires. The springs are tuned more for ride than payload and the tires are P rated passenger tires, not the LT truck tires on the heavier beasts. Both of these can be changed to improve handling. The final bit I want to mention that I think is overlooked is the weight of a super duty truck. My F350 weighed 8000 lbs empty. Therefore my OB was lighter than the truck and this made the truck more likely to win any pushing contests.....









Anyway, Jay, it sounds like you are asking all the right questions. Don't get discouraged, or think you are alone. MANY of us (inculding myself) have bought trailers that pushed our tow vehicle's limits. These problems have been solved different ways. Around here, the most common solution is the truck upgrade, but others have done mods to their current truck to improve things, or upgraded hitches to help with dynamics (I'm referring to the really expensive hitches here like Hensley and ProPride).


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## Dan Borer (Feb 6, 2009)

I tow my Sydney 29RLS with an '09 F150 MaxTow. Just as Carey suspects, this combo is a very capable and comfortable combination. As stated in past posts I need to be mindfull of what I carry in the truck. Loaded and ready to roll I can add another 440 pounds to the bed but usually opt to find a place in the trailer to carry anything extra since I have 1300 pounds more carrying capacity back there. My usual configuration leaves me about 2700 pounds below the tow rating for my truck. Add in Ford's trailer sway control and you have an extra margin of safety built in that will do what it can to protect you from being too stupid. Once while pulling in the desert near Palm Springs I was hit be a big gust of wind as I exited an underpass and the icon on the dash lit up telling me that sway control had activated and the truck slowed to about 45 MPH.

I regularly tow over the infamous Grapevine in California. Granted, it is not as formidable or long as some mountain passes in other parts of the country, but it is a fair test of a vehicle's capability. The F150, pulling 8300 pounds of Outback, breezes up the hill without any fuss. The only thing that slows me down is if a semi pulls out in front of me to pass one of the really slow ones. Even then just a tap on the resume button brings me back to speed in just a few seconds. I tow at about 58 MPH most of the time and that is easily maintained on the upgrade too. Another nice feature of the new breed of tow vehicle is the engine braking available when in tow/haul mode. When I start down the grade and speed starts to increase a tap on the brake causes an immediate downshift. If speed creeps up all it takes in another tap to downshift again, and again if necessary. Very controlled and very comforting.

Not all of want , need or have the room for a huge tow vehicle. The auto manufacturers have listened and produced a number of very good products to meet our needs for towing in a reasonable size. If and when I decide I need to go big in my trailer I will reconsider going bigger with my truck. In the meantime you'll find me safely pulling my Outback all over the place with my F150.


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## Dan Borer (Feb 6, 2009)

In rereading Carey's post, I see he lumps the '09 F150 with the earlier models. 2009 is when Ford made the big change in the truck and is almost identical to the 2010.


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## go6car (Jan 19, 2004)

We have the 2008 F150 and are doing really well pulling our 2009 Sydney 29RLS. We have a Reece Pro WD hitch w/integrated sway and electric brake control. Very happy and safe with this setup.

I definitely agree with the newer year trucks being more well-suited for this better, overall towing experience. It's night and day over the older ones (Can't even compare this current truck's capability with our previous '00 F150).

In addition to the overall hitch/brake setup, I think what really comes into question when you're towing "heavy-but-not-over-limit" is the _*kind*_ of traveling you're planning on doing. We are primarily in flat areas w/no altitude, but hit the hills and some mountains only maybe twice in a summer. The truck is more than capable and safe doing all.

You never really know until you're out actually doing it, and after year 3 with this setup (and a trip to the scales fully loaded to verify) we definitely are.

Basically, if we had to purchase this combo all over again, we would.


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

It seems this is a common theme between Ford and GM. As for Dodge I don't know.

When I went to purchase my 09 Silverado 1500, I was surprised by the increase in towing capability it had over the 99. When I questioned one of the dealers I was negotiating with they thought I was nuts. They told me that a half ton truck couldn't have that capability. I showed them the numbers off the Chevy web site and they had a hard time believing it.

Old truck - 1999 Silverado 1500 4x4 extended cab LS, 5.3L, 3.73 rear end with factory towing package = 6500 lb ball hitch towing.
New truck - 2009 Silverado 1500 4x4 crew cab LT, 5.3L, 3.42 rear end with factory towing package and heavy duty transmission cooling = 9500 lb ball hitch towing.

Add 3000 lbs (46%) with higher gears but heavy duty tranny cooling? According to all the Chevy paperwork, yes. I also get 45 additional horse power (15%) and 25 ft-lbs torque (8%) from the same size engine.

For the 1999 model year, which was the first year the Silverado was produced, the ball hitch tow ratings for a 2500 was a low of 8300 lbs and a high of 10,800 lbs. Both had a 6.0L engine and 3.73 or 4.10 rear end respectively. There was no such thing as a 2500 HD back then. My how things change.

I don't think Jay r is out of bounds in thinking that his 1500 could handle the load. I wouldn't be comfortable with it but that is based on where tow. I have wondered at times about a larger Outback. Although I love the floor plan, a 312BH is probably a stretch for my 1500 but a 270BH might not be. That is something I never would have considered with the old 1500 or even a 2500 of that generation.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Yea 2009 is similiar to 2010. Forgot that.

What im saying here is the new f150s are just as capable as 90's f250's. Many 1000's of people towed 8000lb bumper pulls with 90's gas f250's.

Yes a new f250 is much heavier. Could care a less.

Everyone thinks the f150 is still car based. Its not. Its a more capable truck than a 90's f250.

Yes Nathan put a new f150 5.4 6 speed auto up against a say 95 f250 460 with a C6 3 speed trans. The new f150 will out pull it. I dodnt remember when ford went to a 4 speed auto behind the 460. But even with a 460 4 speed, the 5.4 6 speed will run right with it.

Torque was 400 for 460 engines, and they were high 200 in hp. The new 5.4 is low 300's hp and high 300's torque. Yes you must wind up the 5.4 to make it work. Who cares, that what they way the engine is designed.

You will be just as safe towing a 8000lb bumper with a 2010 f150 as you would using a mid 90's f250. Dont care what new f250s can do. The f150 is americas most popular tow vehicle and it is for good reason.

I see many more 3/4 tons pulling trailers crashing than f150s crashing. I see more tundras and nissans crashed while towing than f250s though. Why is this?

In fact ive yet to see an f150 involved in a towing crash... And too think, its the most popular tow vehicle in north america. Why? Its the only 1/2 ton with a frame comparable to the old mid 90's f250s.

BUT in the end without a top line wd/sway hitch you will be in trouble with any tow vehicle.

Carey


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## luverofpeanuts (Mar 9, 2010)

thefulminator said:


> Old truck - 1999 Silverado 1500 4x4 extended cab LS, 5.3L, 3.73 rear end with factory towing package = 6500 lb ball hitch towing.
> New truck - 2009 Silverado 1500 4x4 crew cab LT, 5.3L, 3.42 rear end with factory towing package and heavy duty transmission cooling = 9500 lb ball hitch towing.
> 
> Add 3000 lbs (46%) with higher gears but heavy duty tranny cooling? According to all the Chevy paperwork, yes. I also get 45 additional horse power (15%) and 25 ft-lbs torque (8%) from the same size engine.


The only thing that I think would be a concern between these two is the payload capacity. I'd bet that the 10 year old '99 extended cab probably has about the same payload capacity as the '09 crew cab... since the crew cab does cost a little bit.. Did GM produce a vehicle that had the 3.42 rear end WITH a tow package? No wonder they have great MPG ratings. .

It's amazing what some of the new half tons can do. I saw recent F150's with the standard cab can get a 'heavy duty' payload package that will give them 3000 pounds of payload capacity.... that is truly amazing and really does overlap well into the 3/4 ton and 1 ton range. Now, if they would just make a heavy duty payload option for the CREW CAB 1/2 tons....it would be very tempting!


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

With the 2009 Silverado 1500 crew cab, the _only_ rear end available with the 5.3L was the 3.42.


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## RWRiley (Oct 21, 2009)

Unless I'm missing something you should be perfectly safe. I looked up the F150, and it says max trailer weight is 11,200# with the Max tow package. 312bh empty is 7400# - so if you put in 1000# of stuff that gets you to 8400lbs. Doing the math I get 75% of trailering capacity.

Dry hitch is 665#, and payload on the truck is 2350#. Even if the WDH relieves nothing on the hitch (it will - but you might gain some #s on the hitch when you load), and you put 1000# of family and gear in the truck, your at 1665, which is 70% of payload. Your new 1000# bars should do the trick no problem.

Hopefully I'm looking at this right, because I'm working on buying a 2011 Chevy, and this is how I figured out where I would be.










Rich


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

RWRiley said:


> Unless I'm missing something you should be perfectly safe. I looked up the F150, and it says max trailer weight is 11,200# with the Max tow package. 312bh empty is 7400# - so if you put in 1000# of stuff that gets you to 8400lbs. Doing the math I get 75% of trailering capacity.
> 
> Dry hitch is 665#, and payload on the truck is 2350#. Even if the WDH relieves nothing on the hitch (it will - but you might gain some #s on the hitch when you load), and you put 1000# of family and gear in the truck, your at 1665, which is 70% of payload. Your new 1000# bars should do the trick no problem.
> 
> ...


A lot depends on how the truck is optioned of course. For any vehicle, open the door and check the placard where it states max payload. The OP has a 1/2 ton truck with a ~1050 lb payload (You will only get the max quoted payload with a base truck with no options). It's always eye opening to see something like this because our Crossover (read Station wagon) has more payload capacity than a truck.


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## luverofpeanuts (Mar 9, 2010)

RWRiley said:


> Unless I'm missing something you should be perfectly safe. I looked up the F150, and it says max trailer weight is 11,200# with the Max tow package. 312bh empty is 7400# - so if you put in 1000# of stuff that gets you to 8400lbs. Doing the math I get 75% of trailering capacity.
> 
> Dry hitch is 665#, and payload on the truck is 2350#. Even if the WDH relieves nothing on the hitch (it will - but you might gain some #s on the hitch when you load), and you put 1000# of family and gear in the truck, your at 1665, which is 70% of payload. Your new 1000# bars should do the trick no problem.
> 
> Hopefully I'm looking at this right, because I'm working on buying a 2011 Chevy, and this is how I figured out where I would be.


I think what your missing where the original poster (in another thread) said his tow rating was 9600. It would be good if it was greater. Also, earlier in this thread, the original poster quote the door sticker on his F150 Super Crew Platinum as having a cargo capacity of 1050 (after 150 pound driver and tank of gas).

The figures you quote are maxes for the F150...not necessarily for the vehicle the O.P. had. I don't recall him saying he has the Max Tow package....just a tow package. That might mean the rear axle isn't 3.73...and would be limiting tow rating too.

If you're looking at Crew Cab half tons.... really look at the payload ratings for the vehicle as optioned the way you want it. Don't even trust the spec numbers. Go to a lot and find a truck as close to yours as possible and look at the door jamb sticker.


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## navycranes (May 29, 2008)

Just remember all those weights refer to what the truck and trailer weigh when they are on the drawing board.

The ONLY way to know what you really got going on is to head to the scales and weigh everything.

I haven&#146;t done it with my new Excursion (since I don&#146;t think I&#146;m even close to MAX), but when I towed my 28RSS with a Dodge Ram 1500 I was 600 pounds under my max combined rating.

So head out on a &#147;normal&#148; trip with what you usually carry, and a full tank of gas and put her on the scales. Then unhitch and weigh just the truck. Those 2 numbers will give you a really good baseline for future trips.

Safety aside, you have a warranty to worry about as well with that new truck. And your dealer would want nothing more than to find out that you overloaded it so they can say they don&#146;t have to pay. And there's no better proof that you were NOT overloaded than an official print-out from the truck scale. Just my .02


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