# Horrible Service At General Rv (wixom)



## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

As some of you may remember, one of my premises for this recent purchase decision was that buying local would have the advantage of establishing a relationship for future repair/warranty issues. That doesnâ€™t seem at this point to be very good reasoning.

Hereâ€™s the saga to date:

I called General RV (Wixom) around 8/23 to set up a warranty visit for several â€œminorâ€ issues. I talked to the service receptionist who said they were booked solid until after the holiday (Labor Day). She asked me if that was ok. I thought that was strange, so I took the bait and said â€œwell, the trailer is kind of unusable in this condition and we do have plans.â€ She asked me what the issues were. I rattled off the list. She said â€œtheyâ€™ll want to get you in for a shower leak and LP leak, can you bring it in this Saturday?â€ I said sure.

I took the trailer in Saturday morning. When the service writer, Ed Sadilek, came to get me he said to the receptionist â€œthis is a shower leak and LP leak.â€ I said â€œI have a listâ€. He said my list would have to wait for another appointment but they were going to fix a shower leak and LP leak this visit.

I sat with Ed and described the problems as he created the work order on the computer. LP was leaking around the regulator area when the front tank was opened. I also described how the shower was leaking, sometimes leaving a puddle in the middle of the galley floor. I explained how if you took off the access panel you could see the water dripping along the wall behind the shower, and it seemed to be worse when you turned off the water at the shower head.

LESSON #1 â€" Make sure the service writer has written the problem as you described it. The guy doing the repairs is going to go from that ONLY, not from your conversations, and if the writer didnâ€™t describe the problem accurately youâ€™re off on the wrong foot.

I told him I needed the trailer back by the following weekend â€" really Thursday night to allow for packing, etc. He wrote on the order for the work to be completed Wednesday or Thursday at the latest.

Wednesday around noon I called and left a message on Edâ€™s voicemail stating I just wanted to make sure I hadnâ€™t fallen through the cracks and that the trailer would be ready that day or the next.

Ed called back a bit later (maybe an hour?) and said the trailer was ready and I could pick it up that night (Wednesday). I said Iâ€™d have to call back after I checked with my wife. I asked him what they had found. He read off the work order that they had put some thread sealant on the LP connector for the gas leak, and had apparently sealed up some leaks on the shower enclosure. I immediately suspected something wasnâ€™t right, as I was quite sure it wasnâ€™t the enclosure leaking, but let it go figuring maybe they meant the faucet assembly connection to the enclosure.

LESSON #2: Never let it go. I should have asked more questions right there to make sure they were talking about the same leak I was describing.

I called back an hour or so later and got the service receptionist's voicemail. I told her I wanted to pick up the trailer that night (Wednesday) and would like someone to call me back to confirm it will be left in front. A couple hours later I called again and got her voicemail. I called Ed and got his voicemail and said I'd like SOMEONE to call me back and let me know if the trailer would be left out for me to pick up. About 15 minutes later the receptionist called back and said "If you'd like us to leave the trailer out front tonight we can definitely do that." There seemed to be just a little bit of a "what's your problem" in her voice... maybe it was just the mood I was in, or maybe she just got her hiney chewed out by Ed. (I have found that it is almost impossible to talk to her when you call - you leave a message and wait for the callback. This is no way to run a service organization people!)

I picked up the trailer Wednesday night. The work order paperwork was left in the trailer for me to sign and leave in their mailbox. I wrote â€œwill check shower leak this weekendâ€ and signed it. I also read what Ed had written based on what I had described. Letâ€™s just say he would make a horrible reporter â€" he wrote something like â€œShower is leaking from behind access panel. Has left puddle on floor.â€ See lesson #1 above.

I examined the shower and the only work I could detect was some silicon applied to the gap/seam between the shower base and the side walls. (Someone here has previously stated that was purposely left unsealed â€" Iâ€™m wondering if that was official Keystone or shower manufacturer word.)

Well, as you might have predicted by now, the shower is still leaking exactly as it was before the service visit.

Now, I do computers for a living. Iâ€™ve fixed computers and Iâ€™ve developed software. Whenever someone describes something not working properly, the first thing I want to do is see it for myself. This helps
1)	put the problem in context, which may be helpful
2)	Identifies exactly what it is youâ€™re trying to fix
3)	Gives you a reference point for knowing when itâ€™s corrected

Iâ€™m curious for those of you that are mechanics, engineers, plumbers, etcâ€¦. isnâ€™t this standard diagnostic practice? First and foremost, see the specified problem for yourself?

I am completely beside myself trying to figure out what moron worked on my trailer, or what pathetic practice this service department has, that the tech started working on the solution to the problem before even identifying what it was exactly. Imagine going to the doctor because your stomach hurts and he puts you on chemotherapy without running a single test!! Needless to say, Iâ€™m livid right now.

At this point I have two options:
a-	Call the service manager or general manager (making sure to let them know about this site) and try to work with General RV, on the possibility that this is a problem tech employee theyâ€™d like to know about.
b-	Bring it to A & S RV Center which is Â¼ down the street from work. Theyâ€™re a Cougar dealer not an Outback dealer. This would be significantly inconvenient as the suburban is the wifeâ€™s daily driver, not mine.

Iâ€™m leaning towards option a, but man I donâ€™t want to just keep banging my head against the wall. â€œFool me once, shame on you â€" fool me twice, shame on me.â€

(BTW, ran into a guy with an older Outback a few weeks ago at a dump station who warned me of his horrible service experiences with General RV.)


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

BoaterDan,

Sorry to hear about your service (or should I say lack of service) problem. As we discused in our PMs I have the same leak. I can't get it into the shop until next Monday but can only hope for a better response.

Good luck with your repairs.

Mark


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## oiler (Jan 5, 2005)

Sorry to hear about your hassles 
I'm a GM tech Dan and the service writer can be the most important employee in a dealership.
That being said they are usually among the least paid with a lot of reponsibility, you see where I'm going with that line.
we spend a fortune training our writers the correct way to deal with customers and they still manage to mess up.
No excuse's I know, but getting service writers that understand what they are being told and how to write it down so a tech will understand is very hard to find.
Best bet is to ask to deal with the service manager or shop foreman when you take the trailer back next time.
I find that talking to a customer before I work on his vehicle is the best way to understand the faults even if it's for a few minutes
Jeff


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Thanks Jeff. I knew all that before from some development work with a local dealership (That makes it really frustrating because I should have known better.)

But that's only part of the picture. If a writer wrote "owner reports clicking sound when a/c is running" would you start replacing parts or start with turning on the a/c and hearing it for yourself.

IMO whatever else went wrong (even the part where I maybe should have been more diligent) there is still no excuse for the tech being so stupid or poorly trained that he didn't identify what it was he was trying to fix before glopping silicon all over the place and calling it a day.

The steps that were
1- apply a solution
2- if i can't see the problem it must have been the right one

SHOULD have been

1- Witness the problem for myself
2- apply a solution
3 - repeat until #1 fails

Isn't this the most basic thing you would teach a new tech? That's what REALLY gets my goat.


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## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Dan,
Seems you have fallen victim to the "minimize time spent on warrantee repairs" syndrome that some dealers allow themselves to be trapped into. I agree, diagnostics are in order in any kind of leak situation. The service writer could have written a book but the steps by the technician would need to be the same - find it and fix it (not apply some goop, assume it's fixed).

Most dealers are going to be more aware that success is dependent upon service after the sale - warrantee or not. Those that are not aware of this basic tenet are given the Darwin award - they don't survive.

Hope you can get everything resolved soon.

BBB


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

Dan,

I am sorry to hear that you have had a unpleasant experence with your dealer. There is no excuses for not repairing a problem correctly the first time, but the service writer and the tech are people too and they make mistakes.

That being said, I would contact the General Manager or the Owner and ask to have a sit down meeting with him or her. Calmly and professionally explain your experence with thier service department. I am sure that they will do everything that is possible to make sure you are happy. The General Manager/Owner may not know that they have a problem with the service department or they may know and you are the straw that will break the camels back and get it corrected.

Whatever you decide to do, let the dealer you bought the trailer from know what has happened.

Best of luck,
Gary


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

I know this is no help but I think warranty work where they are just doing patch work is hit and miss and a waste of time. I would rather repair those items myself. If the AC was fried or the hot water heater was melted I would let them replace them but would actually expect to have to clean up after them for a loose piece of trim they knocked off or some other minor PITA thing.

If you want to help both the service writer and the tech get it right the first time, write the problems out yourself, review the issues YOU wrote and have him make notes to your report if need be then have the service writer attach the document to the service order.

Also if it is a small shop and you are next to be worked on ask to talk direct to the service tech, cut out the middle man.


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Andy,

Not all of us can do the repairs ourselves, however. I'm as useless a repairman as can be.









And we paid good money (a lot of good money) for our new Outbacks. We shouldn't have to keep taking them in to get things fixed that should have been built correctly in the first place (or at least caught by the service people during their initial PDI).

Of course, that's just my opinion.

Mark


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

BBB, the dealer is backcharging Keystone for these repairs, not eating the cost of doing them. The PDI guy even told me he gets incentives from the dealership for finding problems during his inspection. That's because they translate to income. If RV dealerships are anything like car dealerships, the gold mine is in the service department. Or are you saying they know they can charge Keystone an hour for a shower leak repair and if they spend only 5 minutes they're just that much further ahead. Guess you can't argue with that.

Which brings up an interesting point - I'm tempted at this point to get ahold of Keystone and make sure they deny this claim from the dealership. There was obviously a manufacturing defect they should pay to have corrected, but whatever the dealer tries to charge them for the silicon implants shouldn't be part of it.

Andy, I mostly agree. If it were just the LP leak I would have done it myself. I've already fixed the backward bathroom fan wiring myself. But with a leak I didn't want to take the remote chance that I didn't really completely fix it and 2 years later realized a wall was destroyed and I'm left hanging out to dry.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Dan,

I have to agree that the whole 'buy it from your local dealer, or you will not get good service' scam is just that. A scam! We fell for the same thing, and on reflection, feel that all we accomplished was to spend about $3,000 more than we would have, had we bought from a dealer 100 miles further down the road.

Now, I know there are good dealers and good repair shops out there. But never again will the 'comfort of having a local dealer to work with' be a consideration for me.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Righto Doug. They've got one, and exactly one, shot to make this right or the rest of my service business for the rest of my life moves down the road.


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

Dan,

I'd say that if A&S will do your warranty repair, let them. Since they sell and service mainly the upscale RVs, I suspect that they should by necessity have a higher standard.
That translates to better service writers and better techs, hopefully.

Bill


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

Just FYI -- the exposed seam in the bathtub betwen the tub and the plastic barrier on the wall is SUPPOSE to be open and unsealed -- that is to allow for ventilation... if you seal it then moisture is trapped in the wall behind it and mold and mildew will quikly develop... and I got that from two industry sources that I asked -- so for once OPUTBACK was right..









as for warranty work -- fool me once stupid you -- fool me twice stupid me ... i would not go back there .. just find a new place... they will be glad to have your business... the place that I have my unit serviced at doesn;t sell Outbacks at all -- but they do sale these 300K Motorhomes and are a THOR authorized dealer -- so I get cadillac service on my Volkswagon product...


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## z-family (Oct 2, 2004)




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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Unfortunately the other stores aren't very conveniently located. If I'm going to do that I might as well go to A & S. Maybe I'll call them today and see what they say.

Funny thing is I looked at a Cougar trailer at A&S before buying the outback. The saleswoman said they get a lot of service business from people who bought at General RV or Walt Michals. At the time I figured it was just normal sales BS, but now...

I think I like that approach the more I think about it. General RV has demonstrated themselves to be at least incompetent and possibly shady - not a place I want to ever deal with again. I will call the general manager and let him know what I think and that I'll be calling Keystone and reporting this incident.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Here's today's installment.

I called Keystone. Answered on two rings and a couple of transfers later and I was talking to the right guy. Nice.

He confirmed the shower enclosure was designed to be left open where the walls meet the base so condensation could evaporate (as others have said here), but wasn't so sure it would really be a problem if sealed. From the way I described the leak he agreed with me it was probably in the faucet connections.

He said that has to be removed from the back and there should be an access panel on the wall behind there. I think that would be on the wall above my stove and I don't remember any panel there. He said it may be best to let the dealer do it.

I decided to call General RV. I talked to the operations manager, told him what had happened and why I was so upset.

He said he'd go look at my work order and talk to the tech involved and see what he did and why, then call me back within two hours with that information and his plan for making things right.

So, we'll see.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Got the callback yesterday afternoon from the operations manager as promised. We agreed it all basically comes down to:

a- I should have been more careful about reviewing what the service writer wrote down

b- The tech shouldn't have assumed he knew what was wrong and that he had fixed it.

Here's a couple of things I got out of my conversation you might find helpful, keeping in mind he's somewhat in CYA mode:

1- He said these showers are notorious for leaking around the gaps with the wall, and it's almost standard practice to have to silicone up the gaps between the walls and the base. I told him what Keystone had said about that being an intentional design and he said it may be the design but in real life it doesn't seem to work real well.

2- He said he would recommend that no matter how busy the service writer is make him come out to the trailer and see this kind of problem for himself. He'll be a lot better writing a description of something he's personally seen that what he's imagining you're describing. This was especially applicable in this case where everyone on their side immediately imagined a problem different than what was actually the case.

The ops manager said the service manager would call and arrange to get the repairs done. The service manager called while I was out last night and left his cell phone. I called that and got his voicemail and so we'll make contact today.

I'll say at this point I'm pretty comfortable with General RV's efforts to address the problems leading to the incorrect repair and make it right for me to get back out camping.


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

BoaterDan,

Hope it works out for you. Taking mine in Monday for similar repairs.

Keep us posted.

Mark


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## z-family (Oct 2, 2004)




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## 4ninas (Sep 9, 2005)

PDX_Doug said:


> Dan,
> 
> I have to agree that the whole 'buy it from your local dealer, or you will not get good service' scam is just that. A scam! We fell for the same thing, and on reflection, feel that all we accomplished was to spend about $3,000 more than we would have, had we bought from a dealer 100 miles further down the road.
> 
> ...


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## 4ninas (Sep 9, 2005)

I am very new at this, so sorry if I am not posting right...
My question is how hard is to get warranty work/or service done when you don't purchase from that dealer?
I live in CA but have family in IN and will be there in October and so want to purchase an Outback somewhere in IN. I was quoted $29000 for a 26rs in CA- it seems like it would be much cheaper to buy where it was made. Plus, then I would have the fun of hauling it home with four children under six (and very ancient dog).
Does anyone have key questions I should ask a dealer, because this will all be done over the phone? Any suggestions on what I should look out for? I am trying to decide if this is a very bad idea.
My TV will be 2500 Suburban- what else should I purchase- sway controllers... From reading some postings it sounds like some owners had their dealers include these things in the sale- is this common?
O.K. I know that was a lot of questions but I would appreciate any replies- this is a very big step for us!


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

4ninas said:


> I am very new at this, so sorry if I am not posting right...
> My question is how hard is to get warranty work/or service done when you don't purchase from that dealer?
> I live in CA but have family in IN and will be there in October and so want to purchase an Outback somewhere in IN. I was quoted $29000 for a 26rs in CA- it seems like it would be much cheaper to buy where it was made. Plus, then I would have the fun of hauling it home with four children under six (and very ancient dog).
> Does anyone have key questions I should ask a dealer, because this will all be done over the phone? Any suggestions on what I should look out for? I am trying to decide if this is a very bad idea.
> ...


Welcome to Outbackers.

I would suggest that you start a new thread so you can follow the answers more closely. Of all the location ere trailers were purchased I have not heard of many that actually purchased in Indiana but a bunch were purchased in Michigan. Hopefully you will be in northern Indiana and can visit Lakeshore RV. They sell a lot via the phone and Internet and have very good prices.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Today's installment:

Took kids to school skating event Wednesday night. When I got home DW said Chris (service manager) had called while I was gone and left his cell phone for me to call him back. I asked if he realized how late I would be and DW said he said call him any time.

Called Chris's cell phone 8:30 PM and left a voicemail, which said call me back by 9:00 PM or Thursday during the day.

Thursday 4:30 I call General RV and get into Chris's voicemail there. Tell him I was expecting his call and he can call me back on my cell.

Thursday 4:55 PM - he calls but I'm on another call. He leaves voicemail to call his cell.

Thursday 5:01 PM - I call his cell and go immediately to voicemail. Leave message to call me back. Never hear from him the rest of the night.

At this point I'm beginning to get frustrated again, and I thought we were doing so well. This is the same BS I had to deal with calling the service department at the store - you never get a real person, just the receptionist's voicemail.

Friday 10:00 AM. Called General RV again. Ended up in Chris's voicemail because he was "back in the shop". Left another message for him to call my cell.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

GENERAL RV SERVICE SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS.
















Waited for another whole business day for Chris the service turd to call me back - nothing.

Called back 3:30PM Friday and asked for him. Got directed to the service receptionist as always, but she didn't answer so I got her voicemail as usual. Decided not to leave a message.

Called back 3:45 and asked for the ops manager Wayde I had talked to Wednesday. He's gone for the day so all I could get was his voicemail.

Left a message which.. uh... wasn't too pleasant. But I stopped short of cursing.
















I'm calling A&S to see if they want my service business. Right now whoever can get me fixed and back in the campground the quickest gets this job, but I'm not going back to General after this.







Guess that warning I got from the fellow Outback owner was spot on.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

4ninas said:


> I am very new at this, so sorry if I am not posting right...
> My question is how hard is to get warranty work/or service done when you don't purchase from that dealer?
> <snip>


Here's the two main forces I see at work...

a- service income is service income, they don't care who it's from
b- they want you to go back there when it's time to trade up.

But b could apply to a large degree whether or not you bought the original (serviced) trailer from them. It would vary with the individual store's business model.

Here's my attitude now:

1- Buy the trailer from where you think you get the best financial deal and sales support.
2- Find a place to service it as a separate project (which could be the same place).

I think it's typical to get the hitch and brake controller (and installation of them of course) wrapped into the deal and financed - whether or not it's "included" is up for negotiation.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Got a call Saturday morning from Wayde the ops manager. He told me Chris had been trying to get ahold of me, at which point I lost it and gave him a piece of my mind with a little French thrown in I'm sorry to say.

He wanted to know when I'd be available and he'd have Chris call me. I was camping with cub scouts in BFE, but told him I'd find a signal at noon.

Chris called at about 12:03. By then I had cooled down and just played it friendly. Turns out Chris is the Director of Service for all six stores.

He said he was off Monday, but could work on it Tuesday. Long story short he said leave a list of everything wrong on the table when I drop it off and he'll have everything fixed on Tuesday.

(BTW mswalt if you're still following this and haven't gone in for the shower fix yet, open the cabinet under the galley sink and slide those drawers in and out - on mine they did a poor job of routing the wires for the slide switch and monitoring panel and they catch on the drawers a bit. It's one of the things that will be on the list.)


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Hey, is anybody still reading this?

I dropped the trailer off Monday night per the arrangements. I left my list of issues on the dinette table per the arrangments. I wrote on the bottom for them to call me with questions and to confirm Tuesday night pickup at my cell phone.

About 4:00 I called them because I hadn't heard anything. I asked the service receptionist (I actually got to talk to her, a miracle!) if she could check if my trailer was ready. She seemed clueless about what I was talking about.

After a few questions and periods on hold, she came back and said they were working on it right now and something like "the service guys had pulled it back behind the gate before we got in this morning."

My interpretation of all that - my trailer was sitting back on the lot somewhere and because there wasn't an official work order nobody knew why... and Chris totally forgot about me.

Anyway, the plan was that if I didn't hear from them it would be done for me to pick up that night.

Got a call about 5:45 from the service manager from the General RV Wixom store. He said they would be done with it tonight but if I didn't mind they'd like to keep it another day because Chris wants to personally go through it. I said that's fine. He said pretty much everything is done except the shower.

Confirmed my interpretation. The other items beside the shower were all fairly minor 5-10 minute fixes. I believe they had started working on it at 4:00 when I called and weren't able to get the shower done.

I'm not in a hurry to get it back since I don't need it this weekend, but my experience continues to convince me I need to find someplace else with whom to establish a service relationship.


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

Hey BD,

I have been reading every installment. Your typing hasn't been wasted.

You may be right about when they started and about the wisdom of going elsewhere. Hope you find better..

Bill


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

> have been reading every installment. Your typing hasn't been wasted.


Second that (e)motion.

Mark


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## nonny (Aug 14, 2005)

I'm still reading, too. I bought mine at General RV in Wayland. I'm really curious as to how things work out for you since Chris is the Director of Service for all 6 stores!


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## 7heaven (Jun 4, 2005)

BD, We've been following your saga. Kind of reminds me of dealing with the HMO...







Unfortunately, you have to be persistent and you have been! Hope it comes out OK.


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

7heaven said:


> BD, We've been following your saga. Kind of reminds me of dealing with the HMO...
> 
> 
> 
> ...










HMO . I know where your coming from. Retired RN here. I have seen some very exspensive screw-ups when they try to be go cheap on " caring for patients-- nurse talk" ...oh "clients-- HMO Talk" Not all HMO 's are created equal. Some do good work. 
Jan


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## z-family (Oct 2, 2004)




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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Thursday morning and I haven't heard a word.


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

The saga continues................

Keep your head up, BoaterDan.

Mark


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

C'mon already, how some businesses stay in business amazes me. If I treated my customers like that, I'd be in big trouble, good word of mouth is my life.

Mike


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## McBeth (Feb 19, 2005)

I have been following the ongoing saga in horror. I also purchaced my Outback from General RV Wixom, after having very poor experience at the Brownstown location.

So far I have'nt needed any service, fixed most of the small stuff myself.

After following this ongoing saga I absolutly dread anything major going wrong.

The service ogainzation at General RV should be ashamed of themselves.

In the future when people ask me where I bought my Outback I will steer them away from from General RV.

Keith


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Interesting Keith... I ended up at the Wixom store because I couldn't get the salesman in Brownstown to call me back. Go figure.

I called them today at 4:00. That's two full business days after Chris told me he'd have my entire list finished.

I told the service receptionist I had been expecting the call from Chris and just wanted to know what the status of my trailer. She put me on hold a minute and then said somebody would go over the repairs with me.

I got a Jeff in a couple minutes, who said he was one of the "service reps", whatever that means. He asked me if the guy that called me Tuesday night hadn't gone over this already. I patiently said "no, what he said was that Chris was going to call me Wednesday because he personally wanted to handle this."









So, he went over the list and they appear to have fixed everything, more or less.

I had noticed my stereo wasn't wired to the speakers in stereo - moving the balance control doesn't do anything. Jeff says that's just the way they do it. They did the same thing to my boat - I really don't understand how they can be so retarded as to tout the stereo as a feature and then wire it to the speakers in mono.

The shower leak was fixed and they were going to pull a shower head from their inventory to fix mine that didn't completely shut off the water.

I listed the fact that the grey tank meters showed full at 15 gallons, playing dumb as if maybe I got the wrong holding tanks. Today they said they pulled the underbelly cover and checked everything out and it's all assembled as it's supposed to. Someone named Kelly was supposed to be calling Keystone to see what they had to say. I'll just do that myself I think.

There were a few other little things like the cupboard doors not lining up to close properly.

I go pick it up tonight and we'll see the next time we go out how the shower works.

Like Mike said, I am completely bewildered how they have managed to be so successful.









Keith, my advice will continue to be buy your trailer where you can get the best price and sales support, and consider the service relationship separately. Someone here posted a good experience with A & S in Auburn Hills, which is a Cougar dealer and 1/2 mile from my work. They'll get my next shot when I need more service.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

GENERAL RV SUCKS
GENERAL RV SUCKS
GENERAL RV SUCKS

So, I go to pick up the trailer tonight. First thing I notice is they left it sitting in their parking lot AND DIDN'T LOCK THE FRIGGIN DOOR!







I'm off to a bad start.









I read the service report and the tech has written basically that he only saw water leaking around the enclosure base, WHICH IS THE ONLY THING THEY SUPPOSEDLY FIXED THE LAST TIME IT WAS THERE FOR THE SHOWER LEAK!

I'm seeing red now and hoping there's a little water in the tank so I can check the shower... hit the meter and the fresh water tank is full. I turn on the pump, go to the shower and turn it on.

I note the shower head is not shutting off... so much for what they said about replacing it with one from inventory. Lie or incompetence? You be the judge.









Well, I remove the access panel, lay down on the floor, shine the flashlight to the back wall, and within about 15 seconds I start seeing drips. Now smoke is coming out of my ears. About 5 minutes later water is running from under the bathroom wall out into the galley area and the floor of the storage shelf area next to the shower is completely covered with water.









Ok, just so everyone is clear on this...

After the last alleged repair I talked to the operations manager of the Wixom store... I talked to the director of service for all six stores who told me he was personally going to take care of this. In those conversations we all agreed it was critical that the service writer accurately represent the problem.

I had left a description of the problems in the trailer like Chris told me. Here's what I wrote about the shower:

"Sometimes after a shower there is a puddle of water in the middle of the floor in the galley area that has seeped out from under the bathroom wall. I have looked through the access panel on the bottom of the shower and witnessed water dripping along the wall behind the shower where the faucet is and down the black pipe that is in that area. This has happened on both pressure water connections and pumping from the holding tank. It seems to be worse when the shower head is turned to the off position while the faucets are still on."

Is there anybody here that doesn't understand that???

Here's what the service writer wrote:

"Customer states there is a shower leak"








Somebody at General RV in Wixom should be fired tomorrow.

Here's what the tech wrote:

"Tested sprayed water all over shower inside. Remove trap access cover no water. Removed refer access panal no water. Pressurized water system removed faucet found dry, reinstalled, ran more water found water leaking at tub & surround base. Clean & caulk entire tub & surround area. Also notes minor leaks around glass. Cleaned & recaulked glass as well. Sealed around faucet. Reinstalled access panels. Shower test ok."

Folks, I've taken a dozen showers in there and ran all kinds of water looking for this leak and I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY LEAKING AROUND THE ENCLOSURE.

Part of what ticks me off is I can see on the work order they're going to bill Keystone 2.4 hours, plus what they did the first time, for absolutely nothing.

GENERAL RV SUCKS
GENERAL RV SUCKS
GENERAL RV SUCKS


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Called General RV in Wixom at 10:30 and, lo and behold, I ended up actually talking to the elusive Chris the director of service.

He said I'm going to have to come in and show him the leak because he personally went through it everything checked out and how they did this pressure test blah blah blah.

I said I don't understand how that's possible because I was able to determine it's still leaking in about 5 minutes. I explained to him what I had done... turn on the shower, turn off the shower head (diverter), looked through the access panel...

He said "this happened when the shower faucets were turned on?"

DUH! I said yes.

He said "Oh, that's a totally different problem. We've been looking for the wrong thing. We were testing a leak with the pressure test, not with the faucets turned on."

I said "Well, this is why this is so annoying and frustrating. Last time we talked we discussed how important it was to get the problem described properly so the tech knows what he's looking for. I wrote 'It seems to be worse when the shower head is turned to the off position while the faucets are still on.' How much more simple and straightforward could I be on the point that it leaks when the faucets are on?"

He verified with me again that I had left the trailer sitting there. He said he would personally take care of it right now and I should expect a call from him directly.

Ok, back to waiting for a call from Chris.
















I'll say this - these guys are either not too bright or they are really good at laying on the bull#*%. He acts all innocent, like if only they had known they were looking for THAT problem, so I begin to think maybe it's just honest attempts that haven't been successful. But then I slap myself







remembering I had explained it to them 3-4 times, once in writing as I've described.


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Simply amazing. This is getting to be a daily read for me. Like a book that I can't wait to see how it ends!


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

California Jim said:


> Simply amazing. This is getting to be a daily read for me. Like a book that I can't wait to see how it ends!
> 
> 
> 
> ...










Like a mouse watching a snake, isn't it? The absolutely incredible part is that it would be so much simpler, so much quicker, so much everything - just to fix the darn thing. It HAS to be idiocy/incompetence. No one would purposely extend the misery for all involved. Would they?

My attitude has deteriorated to the point where I actively celebrate simple adequacy, let alone competence. If it were me, I would start over somewhere else, guy. These people are simply too stupid to out wandering around among our sons and daughters - or working on our RV's.

Sluggo


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## Morrowmd (Feb 22, 2005)

[quote name='CamperAndy' date='Sep 6 2005, 12:49 PM']
I know this is no help but I think warranty work where they are just doing patch work is hit and miss and a waste of time. I would rather repair those items myself. If the AC was fried or the hot water heater was melted I would let them replace them but would actually expect to have to clean up after them for a loose piece of trim they knocked off or some other minor PITA thing.

Amen!

I have had no major problems with my Outback but have repaired my share of small annoyances.

After hearing others including Boater Dan, my last resort will be taking it to a dealer. Not only are many inept but even the better service centers usually need weeks to fix a simple problem (unless you wait for winter- then they could probably turn you around in a week.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Got a call from Chris yesterday about 4:00 or 5:00. He said they had fixed the shower and there was actually two things going on blah blah blah.

I told him that even though I had talked to him about the furnace not firing last Saturday I didn't write it on my list so they didn't fix it.

He asked if I wanted to pick it up today then. I said I've never been in a big hurry I just want the darn thing fixed.

I agree somewhat about fixing stuff myself. But on the other hand it's complete b.s. that I should have to. My time is precious to me right now. I already spent 20 minutes rewiring the backwards bathroom fan, 15 minutes putting silicone on the seam of the gutter so it wouldn't drip behind the awning when it rained.

The keystone rep start talking about not being able to get to the faucet connections from the front and it may mean taking the wall off on the back side... that was enough to know I didn't want to go there. I actually looked around for anything I could get to when the furnace wouldn't light, but it's all a sealed box.

The little stuff I just figured better their time than mine since it's already got to go in.

Anyway, back to the story... today I wait and wait and I'm just shocked and amazed that I never got a call.









I left a voicemail with the ops manager who's out until Tuesday that I #&!% well expect him to check on this first thing when he gets back to make sure I've been satisfied.

And oh, BTW, there may well be some dastardly motivation rather than just pure incompetence. Keep in mind that they're billing Keystone for all this.. it was 3 hours before this last attempt that allegedly actually fixed it. When I mentioned to the Keystone rep (after the first visit) that they were going to get billed for a repair that did nothing he got kind of defensive of the dealer and it was pretty clear they would just take the dealer's word that they were trying. So, General RV knows that when a shower leak comes in Keystone isn't even going to blink at caulking the enclosure blah blah blah. It's all about the Benjamins.


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## Dreamtimers (Mar 7, 2005)

BoaterDan said:


> I had noticed my stereo wasn't wired to the speakers in stereo - moving the balance control doesn't do anything. Jeff says that's just the way they do it. They did the same thing to my boat - I really don't understand how they can be so retarded as to tout the stereo as a feature and then wire it to the speakers in mono.
> 
> [snapback]54780[/snapback]​


I can't speak to how your radio _should_ be wired, but we have a 21RS with the Jenson head unit, and the speakers *are* wired correctly. Both the balance and front/rear fader controls work as they should. (Speaker quality leaves something to be desired







but thats another issue).

Best of luck on the repairs, I might think about what other people have said and look at the other (cougar) dealership for needed repairs.

Dreamtimers


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Monday afternoon and haven't heard a peep from Chris - who I'll remind you said he would call me Saturday to go pick it up.









Tomorrow the ops manager is in and will get the nasty voicemail I left Thursday night and get off his lard a$$ and make something happen.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Still nothing.









Somebody's getting a call in a minute.

I'm going to try my best to play Mr. Nice Guy - I think at this point the goal is to get my trailer back in one piece from those #!$%@&!.


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Dan,

I understand your frustration, but remember who has your trailer! Your first priority is to get it back, not lash out at those who still have it.

Your frustration is justified, but be the bigger man (at least utnil you get it back).

Just my two cents here.

Mark


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

I'm going to pick it up tonight, and I'm never stepping foot in a General RV store again, whether they actually fixed it this time or not.

I called about 4:20... yada yada yada I didn't want to leave another ignored voicemail in Chris's mailbox, so I asked for Wayde the ops manager.

Me: I just want to find out what the status of my trailer was, once again.
Wayde: It's been sitting out here in front all day waiting for you to pick it up.
Me: (Almost speechless) Uh.... why?... Is that standard practice for you to finish a repair and then just set it out front?
Wayde: When I asked Chris about it this morning he said he talked to you last night and told you the repairs were finished and the arrangements were you would pick it up today.
Me: (Even closer to speechlessness) This is getting really really REALLY annoying. The last time I talked to Chris was Friday night, and the conversation was about him finishing it Saturday and calling me.
Wayde: I'll go over to Chris's office and pick up this call and we'll get to the bottom of it.

A few seconds later he came back and said Chris wasn't in his office, but he'd go find him and call me back within fifteen minutes.

About 10-15 minutes later I get a call from a guy named Ed. He said he works in the service department and Chris had asked him to give me a call to tell me my trailer was finished and they could leave it out front tonight if I wanted.

So I guess that's it. Who knows what b.s. Chris told them - as I've said he's good.









So, I've got my fingers crossed I'll have my trailer back in my lot tonight with the shower not leaking and the furnace working and I can do the happy dance.


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

My fingers are crossed for you!


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## our2girls (Jan 26, 2005)

BoaterDan...

Any news? I would be eating my first prison chow entree by now!

Mike


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

I hope they got everything straighten out for
Good Luck.

Don


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

> So, I've got my fingers crossed


Dan, I've got my fingers crossed, my toes crossed, my arms crossed, my legs crossed, and my eyes crossed! GOOD LUCK!

Mark


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Went to pick up the trailer. As I was preparing to hitch up a guy came out of the General RV building and walked over to meet me. He introduced himself as Chris Dietrick.









I was so nice it would have made you sick.







So was he. (I can't help wondering if Wayde didn't order him to wait around until I showed up and try to give me a warm fuzzy.)

I actually talked to him a bit about the repairs and the trailer. He said a few interesting things, like the Sydneys are made with all top-grade stuff. The Suburban furnace, for example, is a lot harder to work on that the Attwood, but will outlast it two-to-one as a rule.

I avoided confrontational comments, but I did ask him about the shower head, which is still dribbling a pretty decent amount of water out when it's turned to the off position with the faucets open. He said that's by design because of the way the diverter valve works to allow water to drain out of the hose.

That makes absolutely no sense - I understand there is a backflow preventer whatchamacallit where the hose connects to the faucet that will allow it to drain when the water is shut off, but I'm talking about pressurized water coming out of the shower head. Picture the round head full of holes - water is coming out of about the bottom 1/3 ... I guess I'd describe it as a "dribble" but it's a significant amount of water. The pump kicks on about every 5-7 seconds if that gives you an indication on the volume.

So - is this the way everyone's works? I remember from my dad's 1970-something motorhome that when you switched it off at the shower head the water flow stopped dead.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Mine was about the same with the shower head. My old trailer also did no more than drip a little. I spent 10 bucks on a new shower head and it still drips but much less. The improved spray was worth the money.

Hope you re problem free from here.

John


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

The shower head does dribble on my inside and outside shower. Not sure if that helps but I don't think it is the end of the world. I have a pressure accumulator so I could not tell you how often the pump starts with it dripping but I dont think it adds up to more the a pint during a shower.


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

Dribbles here too!!!!

TJS action


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Ok, then I guess I'm good. Considering the point is to conserve water I'm surprised. There's probably a gallon or two wasted over the course of a shower from that dribbling. I did check a few web sites and they generally call that "switch" a trickle valve, so I guess that's the design.

Not how I remember it on my dad's rig, but then again that was.... well, a few years ago.


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