# Diesel Vs. Gas



## FZ1dave (Jul 10, 2007)

It seems to be the consensus that our '05 Mountaineer isn't exactly up to the task of towing a 23krs with the bike loaded, so a new TV appears to be in order. We're looking at the F150's but I really want a 250, possibly with a diesel depending on what's involved with owning one.

I know a diesel is better for the actual pulling capabilities, but what about maintenance? Are diesels basicallly "turn key" like gas models? Do any special steps need to be taken for everyday operation? Would I need a block warmer in winter?

Sorry for the silly sounding questions, but I'm completely green on diesels. Any info or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks everyone.


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

Some routine maintenance items cost more for diesels, i.e. oil changes - my 2003 F250 needs 15 qts for an oil change. But in the long run it is well worth it since many folks get over 300K + miles out of there diesels. Diesel engines are different animals but with forums like this one, Fordtruckenthusiasts.com, cumminsforum.com, dieselplace.com, and dieselstop.com you will be up to speed in no time.

Any diesel pick-up you buy will have an engine block heater for cold weather ops. Living in southwest Oklahoma I have yet to plug mine in. When we go to South Dakota during the winter I will plug it in while parked outside.

Nothin' like driving an oil burner - the turbo whistle is addicting!









Have fun test driving!


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## freefaller25 (Mar 19, 2006)

Hello from a recent diesel convert. Maintenance is a little more involved and expensive on the diesels but not tricky. With a little reading first, any shade tree mechanic can handle the oil and fuel filter changes. It is very important to use the correct fluids and filters and not skimp on service intervals. Diesels are generally more expensive to repair if a failure occurs. If you buy used, check the warranty history and look carefully for any signs the engine has been modified or chipped in the past.

There is no problem with daily driving. You will see it written that diesels like to be driven hard when not towing to reduce carbon buildup. I donâ€™t mind putting my foot in it once a week because someone told me to. Of course no block heater experience here in TN.

While you can certainly tow fine with a gas engine as I did for years, the diesel has a different feal and is more powerful. With the gas engine, the sound seems to tell you that it is working to hard on hill climbs even when it is not. With the diesel engine, the sound just gets better with more peddle.

Tony


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## webeopelas (Mar 11, 2006)

Yes it is more expensive for oil changes, but my dodge only needs them every 7500 miles, so the cost averages out. Plus I do my own oil changes so that will keep the costs down.

The only other thing I have noticed is people worry much more about the fuel filters. Basic advice is to keep one in the truck. Again my dodge is easy to get to and change. It is in the engine compartment not on the frame under the truck like many gassers.

I am new to this also, and have found that you must drive differently. While newer diesels are better, none of them accelerate as quickly as a gas engine. If you put your foot in it to do so, your mileage will go south quickly. The turbos also need time to "spool" up to get the best power, so stomping on the pedal is not the best. Rolling the pedal down as the rpms come up and in turn the turbo spools up gives you the best power.
Diesels are torque kings and get the most at 1400-2000 rpms, so you will accelerate almost as fast with a big trailer behind you as empty.
Keep the engine rpms under 2000 to get the best mileage, the cummins redlines at 3500 so that is not hard to do.

Just my newbie tidbits I have picked up. I love the diesel and now would not have any other engine. But then I am also keeping tabs on running fry oil in it also. If the states/feds could ever loosen some of the regs on it, it could be a viable alternative for individuals. (Too much demand to totally replace regular diesel and that is an entirely different thread







)


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## W Podboy (Jan 4, 2007)

I dont really know what I can add that has not already been said other than I towed a 5er SOB for 15 years with gas. Switched to the F250 and swear I will never buy another GAS burning truck again !

In the long run you will be happier with a Diesel !

Wes


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

I switched to the "oily side" last year and have never look back. Would I want a diesel powered car....I don't think so but for a truck it is a great upgrade.

As for towing, I think the biggest difference is the lack of shift busyness. With the two gassers I towed with, it seemed that the truck was always downshifting on any little incline or headwind, now the truck goes into high gear and stays there. Climbing hills is much better and the fuel mileage is great, we ran our 06 Silverado crew cab 4x4 to Florida (without the trailer) and running around 70 mph we got around 20 mpg. Around town the mileage seems to be about 3-4 mpg better also.

Maintenance is a little higher but you can stretch the changes out a little more. One downside is that I have found when traveling on the interstates finding diesel is as easy as finding gas.....when you get of the "main road" diesel can be a little harder to find.

Even if you go with the gas engine...go for the 3/4 ton. Your towing experience will be MUCH better.

Gary


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## WYOCAMPER (Mar 28, 2007)

FZ1dave said:


> It seems to be the consensus that our '05 Mountaineer isn't exactly up to the task of towing a 23krs with the bike loaded, so a new TV appears to be in order. We're looking at the F150's but I really want a 250, possibly with a diesel depending on what's involved with owning one.
> 
> I know a diesel is better for the actual pulling capabilities, but what about maintenance? Are diesels basicallly "turn key" like gas models? Do any special steps need to be taken for everyday operation? Would I need a block warmer in winter?
> 
> ...


A diesel will pull stronger than a gas. However, I think a lot of other factors come into play here. Is this going to be a daily driver? If so, how long is your commute? How many miles/year do you drive? Other than your Outback, how much will you be towing? Will you be towing in the mountains or mainly in the flat lands? Is the cost of the tow vehicle a concern? Do your needs necessitate a diesel, or will a strong gas truck work for you? Pickuptruck.com did a good comparison test recently of 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, each towing 10,500 lbs. It's a good read, I highly reccommend it - especially if you are shopping for a new truck. In the end it comes down to determining what will suit YOUR needs the best. Good luck!


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Don't think that diesels are more complicated, they are not , they are just different hence that uncertainty brings a little more questions. You have a 23RS and if you plan on that being your long term trailer then you really don't need a diesel. Having said that if the newer 1/2 ton's were available with diesel's I would take them everytime as towing with a diesel is such a pleasure. It frankly is no comparison. I have yet to actually have a problem finding diesel. It isn't available at every station but there are certainly enough around.


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## FZ1dave (Jul 10, 2007)

Well after doing a little more research it seems as though the F150 would be plenty. The reason I'm now leaning more towards that one is the everyday driver scenario, no additional towing aside from the OB, being in the flatlands etc. etc.

I mean, there ain't no way I'm gonna be able to let a new truck just _sit_ there. I'll be _drivin_' that puppy.









A 250 would be the shiznit but I can wait until I really need it. Thanks for the info you guys.


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

dilemmas , dilemmas, I chose the gas route... 250 V10 love it!!!! Best truck I've owned to date. Tows 21rs Perfectly and has not been the gas guzzler I was led to believe by others(I love it when my step brother mr know it all is proven wrong) before my purchase. All in all a great vehicle.


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## ChopperCop (Oct 2, 2005)

From my experience you can expect around 30% better fuel economy from the diesel. When we had our Expedition we would be lucky to get 16mpg. With the Excursion I can get 20+mpg on the road (not towing). When my DW drove the Expedition she would only get around 9.5 in town. I can get 17 with the diesel.

Our other vehicle is a diesel Jetta...it only gets 45+ driving it hard on the road









Bob


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## MattS (Oct 15, 2006)

We're on our 3rd diesel truck and not looking back. In fact, we're planning to replace the car with diesel asap. I drive my 3500 everyday (and leave the civic for DH







) and I really love it. There are many diesel (and I'm sure gas as well) truck forums that could help you with anything you need, really.
I guess our theory would be, get more truck than you think you need and you're covered the inlaws bought a 3/4 ton and then they really needed a 1 ton.








If you decide the F150 works for you, then cool.


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## Husker92 (Feb 11, 2006)

Once you go Diesel you'll never go back. It make towing the TT much more enjoyable! Also the gas mileage alone makes it worth it.

Also in late 2008 Ford has said they're going to put a diesel in the F-150.


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

WE LOVE OUR TRUCK!!!!!


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## mrw3gr (Feb 19, 2006)

My 0.15 cents (inflation)....I finally quit chasing trailers with trucks. I'm now ahead of that game with an eye towards a 5th wheel in the future without having to buy another Tv (again)!


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## fl_diesel (Feb 15, 2006)

I have been very happy with the decision to go diesel. My 11 year old f150 with 4.6l was really working to pull our 23rs, finally blew a head gasket, like others I didn't want to chase tv's. 
2 things I haven't seen mentioned.

A new diesel needs about ~20k miles to loosen up, you will see the fuel economy rise the harder it is worked. At 36k miles mine is finally seeing the mpg others with the dodge are reporting.

In the winter, additives are added to the diesel by fuel suppliers which increase the freeze point. There is a difference of 1-2 mpg with winter blend.


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## Lazybonz(aka Bill) (Sep 23, 2006)

HIYA

I am a big diesel convert! I traded my gasser for my Duramax about 8 months ago and would not go back.
The difference is amazing as far as towing is concerned.

My fuel milage differnece is huge. The gasser got 12-14 MPG on its best day. I get better than that toing my 26 ft outback. Not towing I average 18-22 MPG on the highway. A bit less around town.

Maintenance- Yep you have to do it and it is not cheap. Oil changes can be expensive as you are putting in 10-12 quarts in most diesel trucks. On the positive side..no spark plugs or ignition stuff to keep tuned up.
diesel engines will last much longer than gassers over time, with poroper maintenance and frequent oil changes. Less moving parts etc.

id I mention I love my diesel truck?









Have fun picking out a new truck..get a diesel if you can afford it..you wo't regret it

Bill


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## Northern Wind (Nov 21, 2006)

I went from the F150 to the F250 6.0 Ltre Diesel 3 trucks ago and have never looked back!
I am in sales and travel over 100,000 Klms (60,000 miles) and also have a 30FRKS fiver, same as Gary.
I find for everyday maintenance, oil changes the slight increase in costs is more than made up for in the cheaper fuel, better mileage and much better pulling power when the fiver is on back.
Good luck!


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## WIOutbacker (Feb 12, 2006)

We're about a month away from pulling the trigger on a new Chevy with a Duramax. I think the only thing I'm worried about is starting in the winter. We usually have one week in the winter when the temperature doens't get over zero. The truck will be in a garage over night, but will have to sit in a parking lot all day and then start to get me home.

Does anyone who lives in a cold climate have any insight into what I can expect for cold starting?

I do have a small generator I could haul in the back in case I get stranded and need to plug the truck in.

Thank you for sharing any info you may have.

John


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

WIOutbacker said:


> We're about a month away from pulling the trigger on a new Chevy with a Duramax. I think the only thing I'm worried about is starting in the winter. We usually have one week in the winter when the temperature doens't get over zero. The truck will be in a garage over night, but will have to sit in a parking lot all day and then start to get me home.
> 
> Does anyone who lives in a cold climate have any insight into what I can expect for cold starting?
> 
> ...


While in the garage or plugged in at home you won't have any issues. Just use a good quality diesel fuel additive like Schaeffer's or Howes, etc. It will help with cold weather startups. The new ULSD fuel had it's problems last winter (higher cloud point, fuel filter clogging, etc). In addition run a 5W-40 diesel oil during winter, much better cold weather start-ups.


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## Wolfpackers (May 31, 2007)

Can't speak to the winter starting, but did want to pipe in about the Chevy you're about to purchase.

I bought a new Silverado 2500HD, crew cab, 6.6 Duramax, Allison last March. Not driving it daily yet as I still have the previous car..this is my first truck....but I'm so glad I did my homework and went for the 2500 vs. the 1500 as I do believe the diesel is better for towing. I found some info on the web and was able to determine that all of the fifth wheels I had been shown that "can be pulled with a half ton" would have overloaded the rear axle of the half ton, but none of the truck or camper sales folks had known to point that out to me. Don't just go by the towing capacity to determine what truck you need.

I bought a 29FBHS 5er Outback Sydney a month after getting the truck...~8000 lbs dry and 10,000 lbs GVWR. I live in western NC and coming back up the mountain from a recent trip, the truck came up the mountain with no problems....even passed our friend's motor home on the grade as I got tired of slowing down as we went up hills to stay behind them.

I recommend getting the factory trailer brake controller so you don't have to get one added. As I typically keep a vehicle until it falls apart (bought current auto 20 yr ago this Sept), I went for the LTZ trim line and don't regret it at all...now I just need to get an iPOD so I can plug it into the aux port on the factory radio !!!

You won't go wrong with the Chevy D/A combo and you'll be set for when you want more camper too !

Brent


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

I don't know were you live but here in Delaware we get a couple of weeks of cold weather and I have never had a Duramax not start...not the one I own or any of the ones on the lot at work......but I will tell you that they do need a little time to make heat. GM doesn't recommend plugging in till the temp is going below 0 (I think that is right)

Gary


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## FZ1dave (Jul 10, 2007)

Well I came home with a new F150 XLT yesterday. Supercab 5.4L FF in Dark Stone with 3.73 gearing, rated at 9900 pounds with the WD hitch. I also upgraded to the 1200# bars.

The diesels were just a tad more than I was willing to spend at this point. I'll save that until we upgrade the TT.

Thanks for all the opinions and experiences. Though I don't doubt a diesel would have been the better TV, I think I'll be happy with the gasser for now, and it sure beats the Mountaineer.

I'll post a pic or two when I get them.


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

on your new truck!

I'm sure it will do a fine job towing your 23krs...and great decision to upgrade to the 1200 lb bars


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## WIOutbacker (Feb 12, 2006)

Fire44 said:


> Well I came home with a new F150 XLT yesterday. Supercab 5.4L FF in Dark Stone with 3.73 gearing, rated at 9900 pounds with the WD hitch. I also upgraded to the 1200# bars.


Congratulations on your new truck. It sounds like you have some happy towing ahead.

Take care,
John


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

congrats on your new truck. should pull the 23RS just fine.

WIOutbacker- The DMAX doesn't have any problem starting at zero. Guys in Canada run 10W-30 in them over the winter just in case yet I have seen no troubles. I would suggest using Stanadyne everyother tankful to keep the fuel issues in check especially during winter.


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## Lazybonz(aka Bill) (Sep 23, 2006)

Hi John
I have an 07 Duramax up here in the Badlands of North Dakota.
My Duramax has never failed to start and I keep it parked outside even in -30 degree nights.
I keep it plugged in... anytime the weather drops below freezing and use Power Service fuel treatment
in every tank. I also try to use a winter blended diesel fuel. Most colder cimate states have it at most good service stations. (diesel winter blended is 50% #2 diesel and 50% #1 diesel)
The Power Service stuff in the white bottle keeps diesel fuel from jelling up. I use it year round because it helps with lubrication and keeping your injectors clean too. I swear by it!
Fuel jelling is the biggest issue in the winter up here. It can and does happen if your not careful.
Keep a *non alcohol * based antijell in every tank like Power Service or Standadyne. Use a winter blend diesel fuel, and keep her pugged in at night. You will be fine.
You will hear arguements about which fuel treatment is better...I use Power Service both in my personal truck and all our diesel vehicles at work. Works good and avalable at Walmart.

Good luck on your choice
Bill


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## WIOutbacker (Feb 12, 2006)

Lazybonz(aka Bill) said:


> Hi John
> I have an 07 Duramax up here in the Badlands of North Dakota.
> My Duramax has never failed to start and I keep it parked outside even in -30 degree nights.
> I keep it plugged in... anytime the weather drops below freezing and use Power Service fuel treatment
> ...


Hi Bill,

Thanks for the information and the advice about the additives. I'm really looking forward to getting the truck. I've been driving my old Durango for nine and a half years We're looking forward to pulling the trailer out your way next summer for one of our week long trips.

Thanks again,
John


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## FZ1dave (Jul 10, 2007)

Pics of the new TV...


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Nice truck! I missed an important detail though you said 23KRS and I thought you said 23RS. Becareful how you load that FZ1 and consult the threads about Kargaroos. They are a different beast concerning tongue weight. Some have had quite the adventure with them.


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## pjb2cool (Apr 8, 2004)

Congrats on your new truck...Please post a picture of your new truck + Outback hooked up together ... Happy Camping


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## FZ1dave (Jul 10, 2007)

pjb2cool said:


> Congrats on your new truck...Please post a picture of your new truck + Outback hooked up together ...


Thanks, and the bike will be included too.









The only problem is, the bastages at the dealer have now pushed our delivery date for the trailer back to August 10th. It was _supposed_ to be in this weekend.

Believe me, the pics will be up as soon as we take delivery.


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