# Generators And Outbacks



## bka4tcu (Aug 18, 2010)

I will be camping without services for the first time in the outback in a few weeks. I will not need my A/C as the weather will be cool, but I am curious how much generator I will need to keep the furnace, microwave, etc going. The microwave will not work on the battery, but everything else should. I plan to only use the generator to recharge the battery and if I need the microwave.

Any suggestions on what I should look for? I have a small honda generator, but cannot remember how many watts it produces. I can rent a generator of any size locally. Let me know what you all think and suggest.


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## outback loft (Sep 22, 2008)

A 2000 watt generator is plenty to run a microwave and charge the batteries.


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

outback loft said:


> A 2000 watt generator is plenty to run a microwave and charge the batteries.


agree ... and if you are not going to be using the microwave a HONDA 1000 will easily do the trick ....


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

One of our 2000's handle the power needs perfectly when we're dry camping. I run it in the morning, make coffee, catch up on the news and top off the batteries. Then I run her again at night around dinner, let the kids watch a "show", then we sit around the fire and make s'mores. When the Honda is on eco mode (as well as the yamaha and others I'm sure) she's just barely plugging along.


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## Braggus (Aug 8, 2010)

Been thinking of getting one for a near future trip, what or shall I saw who makes the quietest one?


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## CdnOutback (Apr 16, 2010)

We have a Yamaha 3000ISEB and it works great and is very quiet.. We used it when it was real hot so the dogs would be air conditioned when we were out being heated by the sun...(somethings wrong with that picture).. when it's on econo mode, you can barely hear it.


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## outback loft (Sep 22, 2008)

I have a 3000 watt Kipor, it is quiet enough that I leave it on the rack on the back of the trailer, and if I should have someone that close to me I will take it off the rack, roll it into the woods and roll out the cord and extension cord to it, when it is tucked away in the woods nobody even knows it is there. I haven't run my generator since the beginning of August because of my solar setup, but the setup I am running is over 1000 watts and I have a 4000 watt inverter/charger so that I can run even the a/c off the battery bank.(I have batteries running down both sides of the trailer and two mounted on the tongue for a total of 14 batteries.


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## Fanatical1 (Jan 9, 2006)

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> One of our 2000's handle the power needs perfectly when we're dry camping. I run it in the morning, make coffee, catch up on the news and top off the batteries. Then I run her again at night around dinner, let the kids watch a "show", then we sit around the fire and make s'mores. When the Honda is on eco mode (as well as the yamaha and others I'm sure) she's just barely plugging along.


This is what we do also. Honda 2000 is 46 pounds and very quiet. It also can be connected with a second 2000 to make 4000 watts if you ever decide
you need to run the air in the future. The other reason to consider the 2000 is they hold their resale value extremely well.

I use two 6 volt batteries and then recharge on occasion when necessary. The second battery really helps extend when and how much you run the generator. No need to worry about running out of battery in the middle of the night when your running the furnace.


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## outback loft (Sep 22, 2008)

Fanatical1 said:


> One of our 2000's handle the power needs perfectly when we're dry camping. I run it in the morning, make coffee, catch up on the news and top off the batteries. Then I run her again at night around dinner, let the kids watch a "show", then we sit around the fire and make s'mores. When the Honda is on eco mode (as well as the yamaha and others I'm sure) she's just barely plugging along.


This is what we do also. Honda 2000 is 46 pounds and very quiet. It also can be connected with a second 2000 to make 4000 watts if you ever decide
you need to run the air in the future. The other reason to consider the 2000 is they hold their resale value extremely well.

I use two 6 volt batteries and then recharge on occasion when necessary. The second battery really helps extend when and how much you run the generator. No need to worry about running out of battery in the middle of the night when your running the furnace.
[/quote]

You actually only get 3000 watts when you connect two Honda 2000's. That is because it is actually only a 1600 watt generator and has a 2000 watt surge. I don't know where the other 200 watts goes to when you connect the two, but there is power. lost in the connection.


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

outback loft said:


> One of our 2000's handle the power needs perfectly when we're dry camping. I run it in the morning, make coffee, catch up on the news and top off the batteries. Then I run her again at night around dinner, let the kids watch a "show", then we sit around the fire and make s'mores. When the Honda is on eco mode (as well as the yamaha and others I'm sure) she's just barely plugging along.


This is what we do also. Honda 2000 is 46 pounds and very quiet. It also can be connected with a second 2000 to make 4000 watts if you ever decide
you need to run the air in the future. The other reason to consider the 2000 is they hold their resale value extremely well.

I use two 6 volt batteries and then recharge on occasion when necessary. The second battery really helps extend when and how much you run the generator. No need to worry about running out of battery in the middle of the night when your running the furnace.
[/quote]

You actually only get 3000 watts when you connect two Honda 2000's. That is because it is actually only a 1600 watt generator and has a 2000 watt surge. I don't know where the other 200 watts goes to when you connect the two, but there is power. lost in the connection.
[/quote]

Actually, a single 2000 chuggs along at 1600 watts- 2 in series, provide 3200 watts. A single 3000 pumps out 2800 watts. So, in theory- two 47 pound 2000's provide more power than a single 100 (+) lb 3000. And if you shop around, a 2000 can be found for around $900, whereas the 3000 retails for over $2400. The only issue is fuel, the 2000's have a small tank- so an extended fuel system would be needed (for around a hundred bucks, we got one that gives us about 36 hours run time). I know the Yamaha, Kipor and others are probably similar.


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## outback loft (Sep 22, 2008)

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> One of our 2000's handle the power needs perfectly when we're dry camping. I run it in the morning, make coffee, catch up on the news and top off the batteries. Then I run her again at night around dinner, let the kids watch a "show", then we sit around the fire and make s'mores. When the Honda is on eco mode (as well as the yamaha and others I'm sure) she's just barely plugging along.


This is what we do also. Honda 2000 is 46 pounds and very quiet. It also can be connected with a second 2000 to make 4000 watts if you ever decide
you need to run the air in the future. The other reason to consider the 2000 is they hold their resale value extremely well.

I use two 6 volt batteries and then recharge on occasion when necessary. The second battery really helps extend when and how much you run the generator. No need to worry about running out of battery in the middle of the night when your running the furnace.
[/quote]

You actually only get 3000 watts when you connect two Honda 2000's. That is because it is actually only a 1600 watt generator and has a 2000 watt surge. I don't know where the other 200 watts goes to when you connect the two, but there is power. lost in the connection.
[/quote]

Actually, a single 2000 chuggs along at 1600 watts- 2 in series, provide 3200 watts. A single 3000 pumps out 2800 watts. So, in theory- two 47 pound 2000's provide more power than a single 100 (+) lb 3000. And if you shop around, a 2000 can be found for around $900, whereas the 3000 retails for over $2400. The only issue is fuel, the 2000's have a small tank- so an extended fuel system would be needed (for around a hundred bucks, we got one that gives us about 36 hours run time). I know the Yamaha, Kipor and others are probably similar.
[/quote]

I am not sure where I saw it, but a spec sheet somewhere was showing only 3000 out of two linked eu2000's. When I was looking at generators I went with the 3000 watt Kipor because at that time the 3000 watt Kipor was rated at 3000 watts and had a higher surge. The Honda had a 3000 watt surge and a 2800 watt rating. The new Kipors are rated the same way as the Honda, but when I bought mine it had a higher rating. I also get over 24 hours of run time on a single tank of gas.


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## John3640 (Sep 27, 2010)

What is the minimum wattage generator I would need to run the AC? I would like to be able to run it for the dog when we stop places during our travels.


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## my3chis (Sep 2, 2010)

John3640 said:


> What is the minimum wattage generator I would need to run the AC? I would like to be able to run it for the dog when we stop places during our travels.


From what we have been told. You only need a 2000 watt generator to run it. You need at least 3000 watts for the intial start up though. That is why many campers go with 2 - 2000 watt ones because once you are up and running you can take one of the generators off line and use it for something else.


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## hautevue (Mar 8, 2009)

There is a lot of stuff on this site regarding the size genset needed to run the air conditioner (a/c).

The a/c requires upwards of 25 amps to start. That load lasts for only a few seconds and then drops to the running current of about 13 - 15 amps. That 25 amp starting current can trip the more sensitive overload breakers on 2000 watt units. Testing it will see if the genset can handle a 3-4 second overload without tripping. Mine can (a Honeywell 2K unit), some have reported that Honda's trip. Maybe Honda has a more sensitive overload breaker!







Remember that 2000 watt units deliver 16 amps of power (2000 watts/120 volts = 16.66 amps). That's close to the amount of power the a/c system requires.

Those who buy a 2000 watt generator often succeed with it by doing the following:

1. put a good quality "hard-start capacitor" in the a/c. Replacing the factory supplied start capacitor with an upgraded one reduces the length of time the a/c draws heavy power. They are relatively cheap, too. Several OB board members have done it and say it's a simple swap replacement.

2. make certain other a/c stuff is off, including your power converter, microwave, hot water heater, etc. Switch off the power converter at the panel. I also turn off all other 120 volt breakers except the a/c one. You want to have 100% of the generated power going to the a/c unit.

3. Turn on the fan first. Switch it to 'run' or 'on'. It uses a bit more power to start than run, so you want to get that load out of the way. Once the fan is nicely purring along, then turn on the a/c compressor at the thermostat.

4. Once the a/c is running, do not try to use the microwave or hot water heater (on electric) or you definitely will trip the genset breaker.

Finally, there is the issue of cycling of the compressor. When the TT is at the thermostat temp, the thermostat will tell the a/c to shut off. When the unit needs to come back on, you will draw both the compressor and fan starting loads; if that trips the genset breaker, you either need to get a bigger genset (like the 3000 watt unit) or leave the fan set to 'on' or 'run' so only the compressor cycles. I leave my fan 'on' all the time I'm using a/c because the moving air makes you feel cooler. Thus my compressor cycles but not the fan does not.

Good luck!


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## bka4tcu (Aug 18, 2010)

Thanks for all the great info. I'll be looking for a 2000 Watt gen soon.


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## sunnybrook29 (Oct 7, 2009)

A kinda relative question ! I have a Honda 3,000 and a Honda 2,000 . If I tied the grounds and neutrals together , and measured across both hot legs would I get 220 volts ? If I did that in a breaker box It would equal 220 as long as they came off opposite sides .
And while I am asking stupid questions , here is another . These LCD replacement bulbs , 12 volt , in my TT lamps , will they work in my lamps that have dimmers built in ?


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## Tangooutback (Apr 16, 2010)

sunnybrook29 said:


> A kinda relative question ! I have a Honda 3,000 and a Honda 2,000 . If I tied the grounds and neutrals together , and measured across both hot legs would I get 220 volts ? If I did that in a breaker box It would equal 220 as long as they came off opposite sides .


If you tie the negative of the first generator's output to the positive of the second generator then you will get 220V across the first generator's positive output to the negative of the second generator's output. That is a serial connection.

If you tie the positive of first generator to the positive of the second generator and the negative of the first generator to the negative of the second generator then you will get 110V. That is a parallel connection.


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## outback loft (Sep 22, 2008)

sunnybrook29 said:


> A kinda relative question ! I have a Honda 3,000 and a Honda 2,000 . If I tied the grounds and neutrals together , and measured across both hot legs would I get 220 volts ? If I did that in a breaker box It would equal 220 as long as they came off opposite sides .
> And while I am asking stupid questions , here is another . These LCD replacement bulbs , 12 volt , in my TT lamps , will they work in my lamps that have dimmers built in ?


Yes you would get 220(with a catch), I assume you are asking this for a 50 amp service for the trailer. You would need to wire it up into a breaker box and put the correct outlet into it. Otherwise if you were to to positive to negative, you would create 220, but if you did that and plugged in with a 30 amp(or 20amp) adaptor you will blow out most everything in the trailer. I have a friend who had an outlet wired in at his house and the electrician wire it as 220, He needed a new air conditioner, microwave and converter after plugging in in for the first time. Besides I am not sure what would happen to the inverter based generators if you tried to connect them in parallel.

As far as the LED bulbs go some are capable of being dimmed, some aren't.


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## Just Add Dirt (May 5, 2009)

You just cannot beat this generator for the money I had one; it was quiet and I could run anything in the trailer. Sold it for $400 and bought a 4000 watt, for use at work and in the OB...









Oh..it has a 30 amp connector for the RV built in

3500 watt Generator for $320 shipped


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## twincam (Jan 11, 2010)

3k would be the best bet but 2k will run the lights, furnace, water pump etc.


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## Chuggs (Jun 8, 2010)

sunnybrook29 said:


> A kinda relative question ! I have a Honda 3,000 and a Honda 2,000 . If I tied the grounds and neutrals together , and measured across both hot legs would I get 220 volts ? If I did that in a breaker box It would equal 220 as long as they came off opposite sides .
> And while I am asking stupid questions , here is another . These LCD replacement bulbs , 12 volt , in my TT lamps , will they work in my lamps that have dimmers built in ?


First your breaker box is getting both legs from the same transformer. The sine waves are are perfectly syncronous...they're actually coming from the same source...just different taps on the transformer. You're talking about two separate sources >>>

Wow...not a good idea. You don't do this with alternating current. The advice you got, unfortunatley, is valid for DC power... serial/parallel etc.. But alternating current is a sine wave (at least from an inverter generator) or a sawtooth wave form from a non-inverter generator. The Hot legs dertermine the wave...the neutral is a carrier. If you did this with two non-inverter generators...you'd get an electrical explosion. I think you'll just fry the boards on the inverter generator

EDIT....

After a lot more reading...turns out if you try that with two Honda's...they say that one generator will automatically flip phase. You'll still wind up with 120v.

I read somewhere else...that with the "floating ground" these generators don't actually have a Neutral. It's two 60v hot leads out of phase. Now I don't know how true that statement is. They said if you measure the voltage to ground on each of the main leads...you'll read 60v. It would be a simple thing to try if you have a Voltmeter.

........

If you want to parallel two inverter generators...first choose two that output the voltage you want. IN your case you have two 120v generators, am I right? Like there are only 120v outputs on the panel. You can use a parallel kit to put the two generators in a syncronous wave pattern...and you'll get the sum of thier amperage...and still have 120v. If you want 240...you'll have to start with 240v output generators...but I'm not aware of any 240v inverter generators that have the parallel option. (EU6500IS?) (note: honda only recommends paralleling two same type generators)

If you had two non-inverter generators...you would have to use a parallel switch. What it does is place a breaker between the generator and a tie bus. You hook each generator up to the switch...and tie one of them to the bus. There are lights that illuminate whenever the generators are out of phase from each other. When the lights go out...ie they are IN PHASE...you can tie the second generator to the bus. There is some electrical magic that takes place if one generators trys to go faster than the other...a differential current develops that tells the regulating control boards to make a change. They'll basically stay in harmony once connected. The problem is...lets say one runs out of gas and quits. The generator running will be loaded down by the failed generator..trying to turn the genset like it was a motor. You'll overload the working generator...and possibly cause damage. The switch is designed to trip when this happens and save the working generator. So, in short...there's not a simple way to do this without risk. It works best with two generators that have windings wrapped at the same angle, etc... I'll just say...it's possible, but not simple to do. Automatic switches for 150KW generators sell for around $150,000. I've seen some boards that parallel two shore power sources with one generator for yachts...they're around $1000.

The only reason I know anything about paralleling generators is I spent time on the Flight Engineers panel on a B-727. We could power the aircraft from a ground cart, apu, or engine generators. The aircraft had three engines each with a generator. We would tie them together to share the loads as each engine started. Today's modern aircraft do not parallel a/c power. Each generator powers a separate bus(panel). If one fails, there is an automatic tie system that allows the operating generator to handle the essential loads from the failed generator. It just makes things so much easier.


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## Traveling Tek (Oct 15, 2010)

Has anyone tried those 3500 watt gennies from Tractor Supply have a 30amp RV plug built right in? They are only $300 and looked like a good solution. The decibels seemed decent too.


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