# Almost Wrecked



## TheMillers (Aug 8, 2005)

We were coming back from Yellowstone yesterday, and nearly wrecked. The towing seemed great for the entire trip. In fact my DW even started driving. Suddenly, everything changed. I was driving. We were going south on the 15 through Salt Lake City, Utah. We were in the center lane, and I moved over to the left lane to pass a truck towing some ATVs. Suddenly, the Outback started swaying. Luckily, everyone on the freeway slowed down, and the truck was suddenly half way in the centerlane, and then in the HOV lane on the other side. The sway got worse, and suddenly the 4Runner's traction control warning started beeping. I thought we were going to crash. I could here the outback tires screaching, and my kids asking whats wrong. I then tried to keep the truck straight, and fortunately the trailer stopped swaying. Everything in the Outback was thrown all over inside. All the cabinets opened, and the Television which was braced came down. We are very blessed that we didn't crash. I noticed that the driver side tires of the Outback have scuff marks on then like when you hit a curb, but I think it was the road rubbing the side during the sway.

I wanted to post this as a warning to others. I know I did a number of things wrong. I was feeling very relaxed after driving over 1,000 miles with no problems. Sway was not even in my thoughts. I wasn't thinking of all the things I read in these forums about the things NOT to do, or what to do if sway starts. The biggest error I made was driving to fast. I think I was going between 70 and 75 when I changed lanes to pass. The freeway started to curve when I changed lanes, and I think I probably over compensated to stay in the lane. I never reached for the manual brake control and I have no idea what my feet where doing at the time. I know I have a short wheel base which gives less margin of error. I think the traction control on the truck helped me get it back before it was too late.

Even though I didn't notice any visible damage, it seemed like the trailer had more sway as trucks and cars passed then before the incident. My gas mileage also dropped a copy of miles per gallon for the rest of the trip back. I'll have to get the Outback checked out.

I'll never drive that fast again, and I thank God that me and my family are still here.

Be safe,
Bruce


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## prevish gang (Mar 19, 2006)

Well, thank God you are all okay. I didn't notice what you were towing, but if you can get a longer wheelbase vehicle I recommend it. We changed from a Dodge Durango to a Dogde 2500 Megacab. I cannot tell you how much of a difference this makes. Please be careful out there and as soon as it is feasible, please get a TV that will give you better stability. Again, I am so grateful that you guys are okay.

Darlene


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

I agree that the short wheel base of your 4-Runner probably _contributed_ to the sway.

Thank God no one was hurt.

Mark


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

You had my heart pounding with that story!
Glad you are all ok









Drive safe everyone


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## Scrib (Jun 28, 2005)

Wow - glad everything ended up okay









Be sure and let us know what they find out with the Outback - stuck brakes? seized wheel bearing? Probably time to upgrade that friction bar too, eh?


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## WIOutbacker (Feb 12, 2006)

I'm glad you're OK.


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## RizFam (Feb 25, 2006)

Very scary indeed .....Glad no one was injured.

Tami


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## Pakeboy2 (Aug 13, 2005)

We're glad that you all are ok...


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## 3LEES (Feb 18, 2006)

What a hair raising experience!

Thankfully the hand of God was watching over you and your family.

I know you probably don't want to hear it, but it's time for a new TV, a new weight distribution hitch, and a good cruise control!

Your TV is a might short for the job, the friction sway bar just isn't up for the job, and keeping it under 65 mph is a must.

We're all glad you and your family are ok.


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## Rubrhammer (Nov 27, 2006)

Glad you gathered it in with no harm done. I confess that at times my speed crept up to 70and change when the flow is flying. The last year or so though I've been much more carefull about keeping it at 65. 
You're right that it easy to get lulled into a state of complacency. Thanks for the post as a reminder to all of us.
Bob


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## mollyp (Aug 10, 2005)

Bruce,

Thank you for sharing that story and for reminding us all to be safe. So glad you all came out of it safely.


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## Lady Di (Oct 28, 2005)

Bruce, I'm glad your trip did have a happy ending. Thank you for the reminder that it only takes an instant. Think about a larger tv. It's worth it in the long run.


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## Humpty (Apr 20, 2005)

Wow! I bet that was a wild ride. If it ever happens again, don't forget to hit the "Oh SH**" lever on the prodigy to apply the trailer brakes. That should help bring things under control.

Make sure you have enough tongue weight and be careful out there.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Glad everything turned out good with no accident. Complancency can set in quickly, especially speed. Sounds like you changed lanes a little quick with two short turns instead of one smooth lane change. I doubt you will do that again, tho









With a 21RS, I did not think your vehicle was too small but I would consider upgrading from the friction to the Dual cam sway. You already have the bars so the 1000 lb set up is a easy adaption.

John


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## Lazybonz(aka Bill) (Sep 23, 2006)

WOW








Some story!









My reaction would be to:
1- Take the Outback in for a safety checkover.
2- Drive straight to a dealer and get a bigger, better TV.








3- Buy a Equalizer Antisway hitch.

Man ...Towing and speed don't mix no matter what kinda rig you are running!









Glad you and your family are safe.
It could happen to any of us.

Bill


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

You lucked-out big time today. Although I'm tempted to write volumes, I'll just say that I'm glad you're all OK. Perhaps now change can take place.


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

I'm like Jim........I COULD write volumes, but I'm not. I'm sure that you have had time to take stock of what happened and realize the possible mistakes you made and make efforts to prevent them from happening, in the future.
When I tow, my mind is on TOWING, and be very watchful of what's going on with the vehicle/TT/surrounding traffic.
PLEASE be safe!! I'm glad nobody was injured this time.
Darlene


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## TheMillers (Aug 8, 2005)

We cleaned out the Outback this morning and surveyed the damage. The most damage was a hole on the inside of the bike access door caused by the barbeque propane tank. Even the stuff that my DW kept in the oven was on the floor.

California Jim, I read your excellent post on what to do for trailer sway many times previously, but it wasn't instinct.

When it comes to time to buy a new vehicle (financially speaking), it will definitely be a new bigger TV. Until then I am planning on upgrading to the dual cam. I've got to do some searching in the forums to make sure I buy the right one for my setup. I'll also use the cruise control to keep the speed under 65 and practice getting out of sway until it is instinct.

Bruce


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

TheMillers said:


> We cleaned out the Outback this morning and surveyed the damage. The most damage was a hole on the inside of the bike access door caused by the barbeque propane tank. Even the stuff that my DW kept in the oven was on the floor.
> 
> California Jim, I read your excellent post on what to do for trailer sway many times previously, but it wasn't instinct.
> 
> ...


Bruce,
Good thinking to upgrade to the Reese dual cam. However, make sure you get the dual cam high-performance. Just a few more dollars, and really does the job, even with the bigger units, and I'm sure, eventually, you'll do like the rest of us and upgrade to a bigger model.
I'm disabled, and, once it's adjusted properly, by the techs, it's not proven difficult to hook up, at all. Just make sure your "nose" on your travel trailer isn't high. If the techs do the job right, the TV will be the same height front/back, and the TT will be the same height front/back, when hooked up.
BTW, I've had my 31RQS get semi-out of control, with sway, before I upgraded to the Dual Cam HP sway (dealership had put a FRICTION BAR on a 31' unit!), and you're right........reaching for the emergency slide on the brake controller is not easy to remember or get to, in a case of emergency!
Another tip, is stay to the very outside limits of your lane when passing a vehicle/semi, to prevent from getting "sucked in". That really helps!!
Good luck!!
Darlene


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## FZ1dave (Jul 10, 2007)

Scary stuff.

If I may ask, what exactly are you supposed to do when swaying occurs? I have never towed a TT before and would love to know what to do and what not to do.


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## dougdogs (Jul 31, 2004)

Glad you are OK Bruce. I think there might be a little more to it than your wheelbase. That model Toyota has two other negatives. One is the narrow width of the wheel location. Sure, it's easier to park in the mall, but you want a truck that has a wider wheel stance as well as longer wheel base. Second, you stated that the traction control turned on during your maneuver. The second problem is with the traction control profile. When BMW introduced the X5 (about 7 years ago?) They changed the rules on traction control. BMW's system changed traction profile when the 7 pin connector was installed into the truck. Plug in a trailer, and the transmission program, as well as traction control changes in the BMW. Big three copied this programming change the next year, Toyota and Nissan did not change the their traction control profile till MY 2006.

Thankfully, your precious cargo is fine! Everyone always needs to pay attention to what might happen on the next bend of the highway



FZ1dave said:


> Scary stuff.
> 
> If I may ask, what exactly are you supposed to do when swaying occurs? I have never towed a TT before and would love to know what to do and what not to do.


First thing you should do is apply the trailer brake with the manual lever. then lift off gas, then (if needed by then) apply tow vehicle brakes. DON"T jam on the TV brakes first!!


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Glad to hear you were able to recover from that!!! You should like the dual cam once you get it set up, but even that is not a guarentee. Even if your trailer is tracking straight, you can still get pushed around pretty good!


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## FZ1dave (Jul 10, 2007)

dougdogs said:


> First thing you should do is apply the trailer brake with the manual lever. then lift off gas, then (if needed by then) apply tow vehicle brakes. DON"T jam on the TV brakes first!!


Thanks for the tip.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

1st, it goes without saying but - I'm sayin' anyway) - I'm very glad to hear that everyone's ok.

Now. I towed my 25RSS with an '05 4Runner all through last year (including some rather "sticky situations" on both highway and local roads) and NEVER had a whisper of a problem. HOWEVER, I have a Hensley Arrow which does compensate for a "little  short on the wheel base" and eliminates the possibility of sway.

Now - before you all pounce - _I AM NOT SUGGESTING _  that anyone intentionally purchase a short wheel based TV with the _intention _ of compensating with an H/A nor that the H/A is a cure for significant under-size (and please note that it DOES NOT compensate at all for being overweight!). However, _IF_ the TV wheel base is a bit shorter than you'd like and you need (for whatever reason) to hang-on to the current tow-vehicle, I would strongly recommend the Hensley as an good option to significantly increase your safety.


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

I really don't think this was a problem with wheelbase. Sure, a longer, wider truck would improve things. So would purchasing a Freightliner to pull a 5th Wheel. I really do think there is a bit of an automatic reaction to say "Not enough truck" when these things happen. I have pulled my 28 footer with a Tundra for years and never experienced this. I won't say it can't happen to me. I always assume the worst and plan and load for it.

1. Loading

Never, ever leave anything loose. Wedge it in with other stuff or bracket (or bungee) it firm.
Load Low. Don't leave anything up, on shelves, unless it HAS to be there.
Load Balanced: Even with weight distribution, where you load is almost as important as how much it weighs. Try to center the load over and slightly forward of the axles.

2. Driving Habits

Don't speed.
Avoid abrupt lane changes.
Avoid the left lane like the bubonic plague.

3. Setup

Do not assume a sway brake will prevent sway. It only slows it down.
Know your setup. Make sure the trailer and the truck are both level after hitching.

When Sway Happens:

1. DO NOT MAKE SUDDEN MOVES!
2. Keep your foot on the gas pedal
3. Use the manual brake switch on the Brake Controller while simultaneously applying slight, additional power through the accellerater.
4. NEVER QUIT TRYING! (It aint over until it is over).

After An Incident:

1. Stop when it's safe to do so. 
2. Stop where it's safe to do so.
3. Inspect your passengers (Cargo #1)
4. Inspect your hitch (loose? Missing? Broken?).
5. Inspect your tires (damaged? flat?).
6. Inspect your load (reposition).
7. Get your rig professionally inspected by someone knowledgeable in trailering. Don't go to the corner gas station. Go to a dealer or a trailering specialist.

Please notice that checking on your passengers comes third after getting out of the situation. Harsh but true, while passengers are Cargo #1, you can't help them if you wreck AFTER gaining control.

Reverie


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## Raymond (Mar 1, 2007)

Glad you are ok and nothing serious happened. Might I suggest you at least upgrade your hitch. I believe your tow vehicle is ok but the friction sway you have is worthless. Like the others have said, get a Reese Dual Cam HP or an Equalizer hitch. You won't be sorry and your towing experience will greatly improve.

Ray


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## LarryTheOutback (Jun 15, 2005)

Tonight would be a great time for everyone on the forum to go sit in their TV for 5 minutes and repeatedly practice finding the manual brake lever on their brake controller. It's a maneuver I practice regularly; I also mentally review the other steps required to control sway ("visualize" if that helps).

This is a maneuver you want to have burned into your unconscious. By practicing, you might discover that the brake controller could be in a spot that is easier to find.

Glad nobody was hurt!

Ed


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

Bruce

Thank-you from sharing, we can all learn from each other. I am so glad that nothing serious happened







.

Rev

Great tips. I just learned while towing in the mountains that giving a bit of gas does help stop sway and start to slow down. Using the manual controller at the same time really does help.

Thor


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## Mgonzo2u (Aug 3, 2004)

Bruce,

Glad you "pulled out of it" OK.

I think you are going to be just fine by applying the assessments you made.

I believe you correctly ID'd what caused this incident.

I believe the addition of a better sway control system and INCREASED attention to the tow speed should resolve any issues for you until you get to that next TV.

There really is no reason to be in a hurry while on a road trip. The entire reason for the roadtrip is to spend time together and as you found out, when you speed things up, you really endanger the whole purpose.

One other thing after checking your TV specs, you are really pushing the weight limits of your set-up so adhering to the corrections you intend to make as well as reducing as much additional weight in either baggage or camping equipment will go a long ways in keeping you safe until you get to the new rig.

Thank you for sharing your experience so as to remind all others of the dangers of the road.


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## W4DRR (May 17, 2005)

I also tow with a 4Runner, and am very much aware of the short wheelbase. I try to hold it at 60, and stay ever-vigilant for big trucks, etc. I try to stay in the far right lane as much as possible, and when being passed (which happens frequently when only going 60) I squeeze as far over as I can to avoid the "suck zone". Also, I only have friction sway control, but always make sure that thing is cranked down tight, and check it and snug it up as needed at every stop. So far, knock on wood, we have stayed out of trouble.

Bob


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## TheMillers (Aug 8, 2005)

There is an excellent thread started by California Jim which discusses what to do for sway at this link:
http://www.outbackers.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4741


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## campntn (Feb 20, 2005)

All that I can add is that I have towed the same camper with a Durango, a Tahoe and now a diesel 3/4 ton Chevy.
When I towed with the Durango, and the Tahoe I was exahuseted from worry and countering the sway of the trucks as they blew past. I towed from Kentucky to Destin Florida with those tv's and always used a sway bar and a weight disbribution hitch. It can be done.
When I just towed 6500 miles with the Chevy truck all over God's green earth, I simply drove. Although you are always always always aware of your surrondings and prep for sway, there is simply no comparision. 
It tows tight, and there is much more control over your trailer. People had told me this, but I have experienced it. 
I've lived it and although it is doable with a smaller wheel base, it just makes for a better trip...overall... to have a longer wheel base.
Glad, really glad, you are ok. And thanks for posting it. We can all learn from each other and it prompts us to think. You did good!
Mark


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## Mgonzo2u (Aug 3, 2004)

Mark,

As we recently discussed, the Durango's have a WB of 119" which match up perfectly for a 21RS. The Toyota in this case has a wheelbase of only 109". The concern you have for the Toyota drivers is very valid.


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## Mgonzo2u (Aug 3, 2004)

One other thing, I just wanted to add that the 2007 Durango (and I will assume beyond 2007) now has a built in Trailor Sway Control mechanism:

http://www.dodge.com/en/durango/features/capability.html

Wish my 2004 had that added bonus (or paid for option if you will).


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

One of the first times I towed our old 21 foot trailer with my wife's Sequoia (119 inch wheelbase), I got bold and tried to pass a semi at about 70mph. The trailer started to sway something crazy as I passed the truck and I thought I was going to lose it. Can't remember exactly what I did, but I think I applied the manual brake on the Prodigy and took my foot off the gas. I was able to control the sway and I put my butt back in the slow lane where I belonged.

It only takes one episode like that to scare the bejeezus out of you. Right after that we got the Reese HD weight distributing hitch and the Dual-Cam anti-sway setup. What a difference it made! It's worked well for us with the 23RS, and now with the 28RSDS. Even with the Tundra having a 145 inch wheelbase, I still don't creep much past 65mph since we're back at the maximum length the "rules" say we can pull. I don't care if there's 50 cars behind me honking their horns, I'm not going any faster!


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## smithfries (Apr 27, 2007)

Glad you made it through the incident safely. After we had the bad hitch set up issues and the sway it definitely puts the fear of speed in you. I found it took a while before I stopped dreaming about it, and ours was no where near as dramatic. Now even with the dual cam sway control, I've been wondering why all the others towing campers manage to pass me like I am poking along when I drive 55-60.

Take care!

Elizabeth


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## Husker92 (Feb 11, 2006)

Glad to hear you had a safe outcome. When we had a 2001 durango I would not go faster than 55 mph. Because with that short wheel base the trailer can rule you. Also just because you TV is rated at 7200 Lbs or greater it doesn't really mean you can tow safely. Upgrading TV is a good plan for a safer trip.

Happy Camping!


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## Mgonzo2u (Aug 3, 2004)

Husker92,

The Durango at 119.2" is not all that short a wheel base.

Matter of fact, they are touting the WB as one of its better aspects.

See for yourself:

http://www.dodge.com/en/durango/features/capability.html


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## kjdj (Sep 14, 2004)

God was with you and your family. Glad your alright.

Other than price the Reese Dual Cam HP and Hensley are the same in they use a cam set-up to prevent sway. Hensley puts the cams inside an orange cast cover Reese cams are external.

For a $175 upgrade the Dual Cam is the way to go.


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## W4DRR (May 17, 2005)

kjdj said:


> God was with you and your family. Glad your alright.
> 
> Other than price the Reese Dual Cam HP and Hensley are the same in they use a cam set-up to prevent sway. Hensley puts the cams inside an orange cast cover Reese cams are external.
> 
> For a $175 upgrade the Dual Cam is the way to go.


Kevin,

Actually, the Hensley is a totally different animal. No cams. It uses a patented trapezoidal link that effectively moves the pivot point forward to approximately the rear axle, making the trailer act like a fifth wheel.
Hensley holds the patent; they are the only one that makes it; that is why it costs an arm and leg.

Bob


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Glad you all are ok - whew - what a story. When towing back from Lakeshore RV, we went through Chicago on I-80 with the lake wind blowing from the North and semi's all over the place. It was a scary experience just from that and we did experience sway on two occasions - once was not much but I could feel it, the second time I was reaching for the Prodigy's controller when it let up. The whole experience on I-80 was "white knuckle" and had all of us scared (me, DW, my mom). Even my DD (4 yrs) was nervous because she could tell that all of us were. This kind of towing does not make for a good camping trip.

My dealer setup my hitch and I should have trusted my instincts that they did not do it right. They just "eyeballed" it when the instructions call for careful measurement and adjustment. Since then, I went back and re-read the instructions and I adjusted my Equalizer and I like it much better now.

This exact problem you experienced is a huge reason I am so grateful for Outbackers.com. Without this place, I would not have had an Equalizer, a Prodigy or even known to reach for the manual brake controller during sway. Without Outbackers, we probably would have been towing a 28RSDS or 27RSDS with our '02 F150 Supercrew and we would be really unhappy with the towing while being unable to get a new TV for a while yet. Sure am glad you came out "ok" while having a "learned the hard way" kind of experience. Get that dual cam HP hitch or an Equalizer and make for darn sure that it is set up like the instructions say to.

God Bless!

-CC


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## Husker92 (Feb 11, 2006)

Mgonzo2u said:


> Husker92,
> 
> The Durango at 119.2" is not all that short a wheel base.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link. My experience is based on the older body style which had a 115 inch wheel base. Also it is narrower than the current body style. The new body style (wider and longer) is an improvement from my 2001 model and would handle better towing.

Have a good one and Happy Camping.

Steve


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## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Wow! A few observations and comments - hard to add anything to what has already been said.

1) I'm really glad the name of this thread is "ALMOST Wrecked". Thank goodness no one was hurt.

2) It's clear that a problem was indicated and the search is on for the solution - once you start looking and moving towards a safer setup, the better you and your family will be!

3) Practice. I always practice a sway control action at the beginning of each leg of my trip. I've only had one incident where side winds in the Columbia river gorge started me going and I'm happy to say I went right for the Prodigy and let off the gas. I credit the practice for that reaction. Find an open part of the hwy and pretend you have a sway issue, let off the gas and reach down and hit the manual control for the brakes on the brake controller. I do it at least three times and if I expect winds, I'll do it more.

4) Always check your sway bar and load distribution before and during your trip. I always look over the TV and camper to make sure they are level and appear to be properly tensioned. I will also pay attention to traction at the start of a pull (I'll intentionally goose it to see if it breaks loose) which can indicate if the load is not right. I adjust the load or the WD hitch if I need to. (Remember, every camping trip is different and the TV or the camper can be loaded differently - can make a lot of difference on tongue weight.)

5) I try and relax while I drive but I do it on a different way than if not towing. If not towing I have a few habits (like using one hand on the wheel, not paying too close of attention to the vehicle itself - typical but not really good habits) that I do not do while towing. I use two hands on the wheel almost all the time. I'll have DW adjust things if I don't need to do it myself. I have controls for radio and heating/cooling on my steering wheel so that helps. I do a visual check on the tow vehicle instruments and the camper much more frequently (checking brake controller, mirrors for tire issues, trailering, lights, etc.). It takes a little while but I can get a relaxed drive attitude and still do these things as I suspect most of us do.

6) I don't go for speed. It's hard not to get in a hurry and if you are used to traveling at higher speeds when allowed, it can be frustrating to be the slow one. I just tell myself to get over it!

Don't know if any of that helps but if you only do one, do the practice thing, it really helps!

BBB


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## Acadia Hiker (May 29, 2007)

Wow, what a story. Glad everyone was okay.

So then, after reading all of this and the responses, what speed is safe to tow at? Do you use cruise control or not?

On our recent trip to Maine and back, I started off at 62 mph on cruise and was okay with that. Then I found out by passing a vehicle that I actually _lower_ my RPM's if I drive at 68 mph without cruise control. At 62 mph, I was around 4000 rpm and at 68 mph I was at 2900 rpm. The Tundra didn't seem to be working as hard at 68 mph. At one point, I was going uphill on I-95 in Maine and I glanced down to find out I was doing 73 mph, and it wasn't even grinding it out. I think the tach read about 3000 rpm. It felt pretty solid, but I wasn't comfortable at that speed, so I backed it off back to around 67 or 68.

So I seek advice from more knowledgeable people. What say you?









(I love this place...)


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## Mgonzo2u (Aug 3, 2004)

My POV is that its not what your TV can do for you, its the speed limitation of your trailor tires that is of bigger concern.

IIRC, the advised speed restriction of the OB tires is 70mph. And I'm sure that doesn't mean sustained 70 mph.

Just my .02


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## albion (Jul 17, 2007)

Glad eveyone is ok!

One more thing to remember, this happened to me last time out.

I was traveling on an unknown road came over a fairly steep hill to a steep decent to find a stop sign. Applied brakes and nothing helping from the trailer. I got it stopped, but not without a little worry. I found a place to pull over and take stock and found my brake controller was not set where it should be. Could be it was bumped innocently or could have been my kids playing with anything they can push turn or move. any case, I will never tow again without checking the setting first.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

The Millers were on a long distance trip with multiple days of a lot of miles. I can relate to that right now, it is very easy on your second, third, fourth day of driving to get in a relaxed zone.

If you upgrade to the 1000 lb dual cam set up, you can use the existing bars you have. If you go for the 1200HD dual cam set up, you will also need to get new bars. Its a matter of cost. Unless you are planning to upgrade to a larger TV and TT soon, save the money and get the 1000 lb set up and use the bars you have.

John


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## LarryTheOutback (Jun 15, 2005)

Mgonzo2u said:


> IIRC, the advised speed restriction of the OB tires is 70mph.


This would vary by tire. My Marathon's restriction is 65mph.

Ed


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## Mgonzo2u (Aug 3, 2004)

LarryTheOutback said:


> IIRC, the advised speed restriction of the OB tires is 70mph.


This would vary by tire. My Marathon's restriction is 65mph.

Ed
[/quote]

Even more important to know.

Everyone, PLEASE SLOW DOWN on your TT tires.


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## TheMillers (Aug 8, 2005)

First of all, thank you for all the advice. I think that the fact that I felt comfortable enough to post what happened and that it was my fault says a lot about the atmosphere and people on these forums. There are a lot of other websites out there where you'd be flamed.

I'll probably eventually upgrade to the Tundra, but until then, I want to order the Reese Dual Cam High Performance Sway Control. Before I click the checkout button on the Reese website, can someone confirm that I can use that with my current WD setup (1000 lb rounded type bars)? I'd hate to order it and find out I need to buy something else.

Thank you!



albion said:


> Glad eveyone is ok!
> 
> One more thing to remember, this happened to me last time out.
> 
> I was traveling on an unknown road came over a fairly steep hill to a steep decent to find a stop sign. Applied brakes and nothing helping from the trailer. I got it stopped, but not without a little worry. I found a place to pull over and take stock and found my brake controller was not set where it should be. Could be it was bumped innocently or could have been my kids playing with anything they can push turn or move. any case, I will never tow again without checking the setting first.


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Hello Bruce, and I'm using that system with my Reese 1000# rounded bars. So long as they are Reese bars & have the curved part at the end of the bar you are fine.


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## TheMillers (Aug 8, 2005)

Great! I just ordered it. Is this something I should be able to install myself or should I pay to have it installed?



California Jim said:


> Hello Bruce, and I'm using that system with my Reese 1000# rounded bars. So long as they are Reese bars & have the curved part at the end of the bar you are fine.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

TheMillers said:


> Great! I just ordered it. Is this something I should be able to install myself or should I pay to have it installed?


If you are handy with tools you should be able to install it just fine. There really isn't that much too any of these hitches (at least the ones under $$$$!







)


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## never2la8 (Mar 8, 2004)

This is really making me think. I have the DrawTite Weight Distribution system as well as two DrawTite sway bars. I pull the 25RSS with a fully loaded tow package Nisan Armada. I am just getting new radial tires for the 14 inch rims. I also have a Prodigy brake controler.

Does this all seem adequate?

Thanks,
Debbie


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## Raymond (Mar 1, 2007)

Back to towing...60-65 is the absolute max speed I will drive when towing. I feel safe at this speed and can keep up with traffic without being a hazard. Not to mention but I will, the difference in wear and tear on your vehicle and gas mileage is exponential when traveling either 60 or 70 mph. Your gas mileage will go down considerably just by driving 10 mph faster. Trying to cut through the wind at higher speeds with the drag coefficient of towing a trailer will not only eat more gas, but be harder on your engine and transmission. I see alot of 5th wheels (and travel trailers too) cruising down the highway at 75 mph+! I think that is excessive and in addition to all the above, makes it even that more difficult to stop/slow down should there be a hazard on the road.

Just my thoughts.

Ray


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

TheMillers said:


> Hello Bruce, and I'm using that system with my Reese 1000# rounded bars. So long as they are Reese bars & have the curved part at the end of the bar you are fine.


[/quote]

Well there's not much to do as far as the installation goes, and not complicated either. All you will be doing is bolting 1 cam assembly on each side of the frame. So long as you have good drill bits and can following measuring instrucitons you're good to go and it won't be difficult. Just do the old "measure twice and drill once" routine









The main complication you may run into is that where they want you to place the cam brackets might possibly interfere with either your propane cover, or the cams may lightly touch the metal brackets that the propane bottles are siitting in. Both of these challenges can be overcome.

After that it's fairly simple to get the system dialed in. Start a new thread for installing / adjusting and we can discuss it more there.


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

Glad to hear everything turned out okay. Sway can be really scary and often leads to an accident. It sounds like you're addressing the two main causes of the sway, too much speed and inadequate sway control. A larger tow vehicle would help as well but few of us get to have the ideal tow vehicle because of other family vehicle requirements. If you're thinking about the new Tundra you might check them out. Toyota is offering 0% financing for 60 months on the trucks and they seem to be going for close to the invoice price. You can probably get a pretty good trade for you 4Runner as well. Just a thougth. Good luck with your future towing.


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## davidtinahawley (Aug 14, 2007)

TheMillers said:


> We were coming back from Yellowstone yesterday, and nearly wrecked. The towing seemed great for the entire trip. In fact my DW even started driving. Suddenly, everything changed. I was driving. We were going south on the 15 through Salt Lake City, Utah. We were in the center lane, and I moved over to the left lane to pass a truck towing some ATVs. Suddenly, the Outback started swaying. Luckily, everyone on the freeway slowed down, and the truck was suddenly half way in the centerlane, and then in the HOV lane on the other side. The sway got worse, and suddenly the 4Runner's traction control warning started beeping. I thought we were going to crash. I could here the outback tires screaching, and my kids asking whats wrong. I then tried to keep the truck straight, and fortunately the trailer stopped swaying. Everything in the Outback was thrown all over inside. All the cabinets opened, and the Television which was braced came down. We are very blessed that we didn't crash. I noticed that the driver side tires of the Outback have scuff marks on then like when you hit a curb, but I think it was the road rubbing the side during the sway.
> 
> I wanted to post this as a warning to others. I know I did a number of things wrong. I was feeling very relaxed after driving over 1,000 miles with no problems. Sway was not even in my thoughts. I wasn't thinking of all the things I read in these forums about the things NOT to do, or what to do if sway starts. The biggest error I made was driving to fast. I think I was going between 70 and 75 when I changed lanes to pass. The freeway started to curve when I changed lanes, and I think I probably over compensated to stay in the lane. I never reached for the manual brake control and I have no idea what my feet where doing at the time. I know I have a short wheel base which gives less margin of error. I think the traction control on the truck helped me get it back before it was too late.
> 
> ...


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## davidtinahawley (Aug 14, 2007)

happy2be said:


> We were coming back from Yellowstone yesterday, and nearly wrecked. The towing seemed great for the entire trip. In fact my DW even started driving. Suddenly, everything changed. I was driving. We were going south on the 15 through Salt Lake City, Utah. We were in the center lane, and I moved over to the left lane to pass a truck towing some ATVs. Suddenly, the Outback started swaying. Luckily, everyone on the freeway slowed down, and the truck was suddenly half way in the centerlane, and then in the HOV lane on the other side. The sway got worse, and suddenly the 4Runner's traction control warning started beeping. I thought we were going to crash. I could here the outback tires screaching, and my kids asking whats wrong. I then tried to keep the truck straight, and fortunately the trailer stopped swaying. Everything in the Outback was thrown all over inside. All the cabinets opened, and the Television which was braced came down. We are very blessed that we didn't crash. I noticed that the driver side tires of the Outback have scuff marks on then like when you hit a curb, but I think it was the road rubbing the side during the sway.
> 
> I wanted to post this as a warning to others. I know I did a number of things wrong. I was feeling very relaxed after driving over 1,000 miles with no problems. Sway was not even in my thoughts. I wasn't thinking of all the things I read in these forums about the things NOT to do, or what to do if sway starts. The biggest error I made was driving to fast. I think I was going between 70 and 75 when I changed lanes to pass. The freeway started to curve when I changed lanes, and I think I probably over compensated to stay in the lane. I never reached for the manual brake control and I have no idea what my feet where doing at the time. I know I have a short wheel base which gives less margin of error. I think the traction control on the truck helped me get it back before it was too late.
> 
> ...


[/quote]

Bruce - I have a 21RS and have set my Prodigy to the second boost position. This gives about 30% of total trailer braking immediately when you just touch the brake enough to put the brake light on. This would likely have helped you if you were able to get your foot up enough to touch the brakes. Without getting into all of the physics involved, when the trailer pulls against your TV, it always wants to get back in line behind the TV - even if you have inadequate sway control. 
This automatically tries to limit whatever sway is going on.
Usually when something like this happens, the driver takes his foot off the gas, which makes the tow vehicle push back against the trailer and increases the swaying. If the trailer brakes are not set to kick in earlier / slightly harder than the TV brakes, the same thing happens: the TV pushes against the out of line trailer and makes the trailer want to come around in front of the TV.

The Prodigy controller boost feature is just about the best thing about the controller.

Happy trails!


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## Paul and Amy (Jul 8, 2007)

I won't drive the TV with the TT attach. I just am plain ole scared.














You were very fortunate. I prefer to be car sick (which I do get all the time) then drive with the TT. It just makes my skin crawl, so poor Paul







has the full responsibility.


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