# Great Site



## Allan

Hi,
I have been looking at trailers for the first time and this site and the general inputs I have gotten to date are pushing me tword the 21RS. As this is for my wife and I, and a couple of grandkids from time to time, I think the size is about right. We were looking at the 18RS as I am not thrilled with pulling a trailer of any size across the country. The 21 seems like a good compromize in many ways. I have a 2007 5.7 Tundra double cab Limited and it hauls our 22' sailboat and trailer without an issue but I have not taken it far. I am out looking at this point and intend to hit the Boston RV show next month. Is there really anything to the "RV Show deal" or is that a sales gimmick? I understand that the margin on most RVs is about 20-25%?


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## Y-Guy

Welcome aboard! The % off is a tough one, the first thing is to baseline the prices a bit, internet and some calls will begin to give you an idea where prices are for that unit. I've yet to fully trust any posted MSRP. After that go in for about 30% off MSRP - this time of year is a good one since most people are not camping. During peak season April - July it will drop a bit. Lakeshore RV tends to be a good discount quality dealer, a search on here will reveal many comments. Their MSRP listing for the 21RS is $22,713 - I'd suggest a contact to them to see what their real price is.

Welcome to the Outbackers!


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## egregg57

Allan said:


> Hi,
> I have been looking at trailers for the first time and this site and the general inputs I have gotten to date are pushing me tword the 21RS. As this is for my wife and I, and a couple of grandkids from time to time, I think the size is about right. We were looking at the 18RS as I am not thrilled with pulling a trailer of any size across the country. The 21 seems like a good compromize in many ways. I have a 2007 5.7 Tundra double cab Limited and it hauls our 22' sailboat and trailer without an issue but I have not taken it far. I am out looking at this point and intend to hit the Boston RV show next month. Is there really anything to the "RV Show deal" or is that a sales gimmick? I understand that the margin on most RVs is about 20-25%?


 Welcome Allan!

The 21RS is a good model. There is a poll of what model people own in the general forum if you're interested. Most people have the trailer or 5ver that suitsa them best.

I was apprehensive when we went on our first "Long Haul." I found out pretty quickly that it wasn't a problem. Things worked out well. We travelled from NH to Washington, DC and enjoyed it very much.

We like going to the RV Shows for several reasons. There is always something new to look at, many of the hosts of the campgrounds we stay at go to the show so we are able to stop in and say hi. Plus the sheer size of the place, number of units and products to check out makes for an interesting time.

We end up talking to people who are looking to buy but don't know what thier looking at or what to buy. Almost all of those conversations contain some discussion about tow vehicles and hitches etc. Some of the salesman are good and lead people down the right path, others don't seem to care beyond making a sale.

There are usually good buys to be had too. Campers Inn will be there. They have a dealership in Kingston, NH, Merrimack, NH and Raynham, MA. There should be some good deals through them...hopefully. It is the middle of the winter, gas prices are up, spending is down etc, etc, so I am expecting some deep sales prices from a good number of dealers.

Heck maybe we'll see ya there!!

Eric


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## Husker92

Allan-

Welcome to the site! Your Tundra should have no problem pulling either tailer. Between the 18RS and 21RS, I would recommend 21RS for the added space of the double bunks. We have the 21RS and it works out just fine. With two growing boys we're thinking of trading up for a bigger outback in the next year or so.

Good Luck !


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## mswalt

Hey, welcome to the forum!









I agree with getting the 21 over the 18. Just more amenable, I would think.

Enjoy.

Mark


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## Airboss

I just did a quick check at Holman RV at came up with this info:

Make: 2008 Keystone Outback 21RS LE
Unit: Multiple
MSRP Price: $16,714.00
Your discounted price: $12,991.00

You didn't mention whether or not you were interested in the 'LE' version (I believe this means Lite Edition), but this should give you an idea of how low you can go without delivery charges added on. Delivery charges will vary depending on where you live. For instance, I'm in SoCal and the delivery charges were so high that it made more sense for me to buy from a local dealer.

Anyway, hope this helps.


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## Oregon_Camper

Welcome...Welcome...Welcome.

Glad you found us.









RV shows are great to find ideas and to look a a LOT of RV's, but I don't think you're going to get the best deal there. Heck...keep an eye on this site...people are always buying newer/bigger Outbacks....maybe you'll get a deal from someone on this site. I got mine from Y-Guy and LOVE it.


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## Nathan

I hear tundra's can tow anything








Seriously though, most 1/2 tons with a tow package should be able to handle either a 18 or 21. Some of us push the limits a little, but it can be a stretch at times!









Defientely get quotes from Lakeshore or Holman (they are usually pretty close) before the show. Then you know whether the dealers are in the ball park! In our case they weren't even close, and the day spent in the truck to Holman more than paid for itself!


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## kev

Go with the 21RS and give Laury a call at The Great Outdoors in Fulton, NY. You give her the price you want to pay and she'll get you one. Just make sure to tell her Kevin Carson referred you. I'll get a little instentive if you purchase. But a very nice dealer. Delivered on everything I asked. Her # is 1-800-933-4386 ext 242. Good luck.


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## Sayonara

*WELCOME !!!* HAve fun shopping and let us knwo how it goes!! 
Id agree. if you could swing it the 21 looks really nice!


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## wolfwood

WELCOME, ALLAN!!!!

Your signature doesn't say where you're from but must be relatively close by.... YIPPPPEEEEEE!!! Another East Coaster!!!!!
Maybe we should all just plan an Indoor Winter Rally/Gathering of the Faithful at the Boston show









btw, I was also really nervous about towing a big box behind me for _any_ distance (heck, at the time, the driveway was looking pretty long







) but that uncertainty was gone after the first couple miles - and that was with the 4Runner. By the time we stopped for coffee, I was having a great time!!!! Now we have the Tundra 5.7 (Dbl Cab) .... and the bigger TT.... and I absolutely love to take the OB out to play. Your Tundra will tow either the 18 of the 21 just fine!!!



egregg57 said:


> There are usually good buys to be had too. Campers Inn will be there. They have a dealership in Kingston, NH, Merrimack, NH and Raynham, MA. *There should be some good deals through them...hopefully.* It is the middle of the winter, gas prices are up, spending is down etc, etc, so I am expecting some deep sales prices from a good number of dealers.


UH OH







Eric, maybe you should just call them and save 'em the hassle of hauling 'your rig' all the way to Boston just to bring it back and sell it to you. And, btw, the Wolfwood ground is frozen so exchanging the the "old" Sydney for the new toy won't be a problem...just be sure to take away the right one!!!


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## Piecemaker

Allan

We just went with the 2007 23RS from Tom Schaeffers in Shoemakersville, Pa. WWW.TomSchaeffersRV.com. I did a search on the computer after checking out all of the rest including Fulton NY, Muskegon Mi, Ohio, NJ We were ready to go to Mi as well. They all seemed like that fast sale kind.

We made an offer on the computer and it was accepted. Eric took care of us there including the trade of our pop-up. 
We went with the 23 RS for the reason of if we decide not to slide out for a fast stop over we still have a queen bed and a bunk. Also we have room for others (Grandchildren) who may want to travel with us without breaking down the dinette or couch. The weight, length etc isn't that much different. We also took the Rs since its equipt differently.

If you need to gauge the trip its about 2+ hours from northern NJ. About 3 miles south of Cabelas in Hamburg, Pa.

Brian


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## Oregon_Camper

bp926 said:


> Allan
> 
> We just went with the 2007 23RS from Tom Schaeffers in Shoemakersville, Pa. WWW.TomSchaeffersRV.com. I did a search on the computer after checking out all of the rest including Fulton NY, Muskegon Mi, Ohio, NJ We were ready to go to Mi as well. They all seemed like that fast sale kind.
> 
> We made an offer on the computer and it was accepted. Eric took care of us there including the trade of our pop-up.
> We went with the 23 RS for the reason of if we decide not to slide out for a fast stop over we still have a queen bed and a bunk. Also we have room for others (Grandchildren) who may want to travel with us without breaking down the dinette or couch. The weight, length etc isn't that much different. We also took the Rs since its equipt differently.
> 
> If you need to gauge the trip its about 2+ hours from northern NJ. About 3 miles south of Cabelas in Hamburg, Pa.
> 
> Brian


Congrats on the new Outback. You're going to LOVE it.


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## egregg57

wolfwood said:


> There are usually good buys to be had too. Campers Inn will be there. They have a dealership in Kingston, NH, Merrimack, NH and Raynham, MA. *There should be some good deals through them...hopefully.* It is the middle of the winter, gas prices are up, spending is down etc, etc, so I am expecting some deep sales prices from a good number of dealers.


UH OH







Eric, maybe you should just call them and save 'em the hassle of hauling 'your rig' all the way to Boston just to bring it back and sell it to you. And, btw, the Wolfwood ground is frozen so exchanging the the "old" Sydney for the new toy won't be a problem...just be sure to take away the right one!!!

[/quote]

Stop it wolfie!! It's all I can do to stop MYSELF from going down there!! I can't take the pressure! That want...the need.. Ahh that new camper smell..No NO!! I won't be sucked in...2nd slide Eric..think of the room! No!! I ain't doin' it.. I want the Camper! You want the camper? I want it! YOU WANT the camper?!! I NEED The Camper!!

You can't handle the Camper! Son, we live in a world that has Campgrounds. And those Campgrounds have to be visited by Outbackers with White shiny campers. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for the 32BHDS and you curse the Dealership. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that the 32BHDS's sale, while tragic, probably saved money. And the existence of the 32BHDS, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves money...You don't want the 32BHDS. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that site. You need me on that site. We use words like Campfire, Kool aid, Rally...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very Queen Slide I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a Camper and attend a Rally. Either way, I don't give a hoot that you think you're entitled to me!

Thanks Wolfie...I needed that!


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## wolfwood

wolfwood said:


> Stop it wolfie!! It's all I can do to stop MYSELF from going down there!! I can't take the pressure! That want...the need.. Ahh that new camper smell..No NO!! I won't be sucked in...2nd slide Eric..think of the room! No!! I ain't doin' it.. I want the Camper! You want the camper? I want it! YOU WANT the camper?!! I NEED The Camper!!
> ...Thanks Wolfie...I needed that!


Anything I can do to help, Eric. Anything I can do...







In fact, I'm just kinda sittin' around here....staring at 2 winterized Outbacks out back....if you need some 'moral support' on that lonnnnnngggggg 15min. drive to Kingston... When do you get out of work?









Btw, for the benefit of any of you who haven't actually _met_ Eric....trust me....his post _really_ does make perfect sense







and is pure, unadulterated *ERIC*! <See what we live with?







>


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## egregg57

wolfwood said:


> Stop it wolfie!! It's all I can do to stop MYSELF from going down there!! I can't take the pressure! That want...the need.. Ahh that new camper smell..No NO!! I won't be sucked in...2nd slide Eric..think of the room! No!! I ain't doin' it.. I want the Camper! You want the camper? I want it! YOU WANT the camper?!! I NEED The Camper!!
> ...Thanks Wolfie...I needed that!


Anything I can do to help, Eric. Anything I can do...







In fact, I'm just kinda sittin' around here....staring at 2 winterized Outbacks out back....if you need some 'moral support' on that lonnnnnngggggg 15min. drive to Kingston... When do you get out of work?









Btw, for the benefit of any of you who haven't actually _met_ Eric....trust me....his post _really_ does make perfect sense







and is pure, unadulterated *ERIC*! <See what we live with?







>
[/quote]

Now she's using big words.....!! You think you have it bad!? Do you see what I have to live with! Me!!


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## wolfwood

egregg57 said:


> WELCOME, ALLAN!!!!
> .....Btw, for the benefit of any of you who haven't actually _met_ Eric....trust me....his post _really_ does make perfect sense
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> and is pure, unadulterated *ERIC*! <See what we live with?
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Now she's using big words.....!! You think you have it bad!? Do you see what I have to live with! Me!![/quote]

Don't scare Allan away, Eric. Back in your box!









Allan - it's okay - really. He's harmless and it's NOT contagious!!! Like Spring rain and Winter snow, this is just one of those crosses we bear for living here in beautiful S. NH... No doubt you'll also get used to _it_ him







Welcome to the Southern NH sub-clan of Outbackers!!!


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## egregg57

wolfwood said:


> WELCOME, ALLAN!!!!
> .....Btw, for the benefit of any of you who haven't actually _met_ Eric....trust me....his post _really_ does make perfect sense
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> and is pure, unadulterated *ERIC*! <See what we live with?
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Now she's using big words.....!! You think you have it bad!? Do you see what I have to live with! Me!![/quote]

Don't scare Allan away, Eric. Back in your box!









Allan - it's okay - really. He's harmless and it's NOT contagious!!! Like Spring rain and Winter snow, this is just one of those crosses we bear for living here in beautiful S. NH... No doubt you'll also get used to _it_ him







Welcome to the Southern NH sub-clan of Outbackers!!!

[/quote]

Harmless? Not Contagious? AND I am a cross to bear!?







Allan..Don't listen to her.....She's EeeEVvvVvIiiIllllL!!!!


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## PDX_Doug

*Welcome to Outbackers, Allan!*








It's good to hear we have been a good resource for you.









Not much I can add, deal wise, that the others haven't already said. Shop around and make sure you are comparing apples to apples (that can be kind of hard with RV's). Whoever you go with, I'm sure you will love your new Outback. Not to mention the free extended family that comes with it!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## egregg57

PDX_Doug said:


> *Welcome to Outbackers, Allan!*
> 
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> 
> It's good to hear we have been a good resource for you.
> 
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> 
> Not much I can add, deal wise, that the others haven't already said. Shop around and make sure you are comparing apples to apples (that can be kind of hard with RV's). Whoever you go with, I'm sure you will love your new Outback. Not to mention the free extended family that comes with it!
> 
> 
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> Happy Trails,
> Doug


 Yeah, What Doug said. Sorry about the earlier posts. I didn't mean to hijack the thread...Wolfie just....sigh...well she does stuff to me and I have to defend myself. It's been like this for a couple of years now and I just don't know if I can keep doing this on my own. Up until now I was pretty much on my own in trying to keep the Wolfster in line. Now maybe I'll have some help. God knows...I need it!

Anyway, welcome to one of the greatest sites on the internet. A little zany, a little helpful, a whole lot of fun. If you need anything give us a shout!

Eric


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## Oregon_Camper

PDX_Doug said:


> Not to mention the free extended family that comes with it!


That is worth a good $4000-$5000 in free advise alone.


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## wolfwood

It's winter, Allan and the animals get _just_ a little restless when they can't go out and play...









*As for YOU, Eric.....*


egregg57 said:


> Yeah, What Doug said. Sorry about the earlier posts. I didn't mean to hijack the thread...Wolfie just....sigh...well she does stuff to me and *I have to defend myself. Eric, you seem to be forgetting (again!) that there are a few 1000 OBers here who are all well aware of (many of whom have even reminded you of just) WHO needs defending! * It's been like this for a couple of years now and *I just don't know if I can keep doing this on my own. Up until now I was pretty much on my own in trying to keep the Wolfster in line.Of course, its not that you haven't solicited the assistance of innocent newbies who have eventually seen the light and come to the OTHER side of the playing field....*
> 
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> *Now maybe I'll have some help.* *Maybe....but, alas, unlikely - as even your DW and son come to MY defense! God knows...I need it!At last!!! The truth be spoken!!!!
> 
> Anyway, welcome to one of the greatest sites on the internet. A little zany, a little helpful, a whole lot of fun. If you need anything give us a shout!
> 
> Eric*


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## Allan

Well, it is a good thing I don't scare easily









I greatly appreciate the advice and I am sure I may have some more questions before this is all done! I found out that the LE at the end of the 21RS is for Limited Edition and the best I have been able to understand is that it is supposed to come with some perks, like a 19" LCD TV.

We are headed to Boston for the RV show next month but I intend to contact some of the vendors before then to see if any of them intend to bring a 21RS with them.

Thanks again









 Allan


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## Oregon_Camper

Allan said:


> Well, it is a good thing I don't scare easily
> 
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> 
> I greatly appreciate the advice and I am sure I may have some more questions before this is all done! I found out that the LE at the end of the 21RS is for Limited Edition and the best I have been able to understand is that it is supposed to come with some perks, like a 19" LCD TV.
> 
> We are headed to Boston for the RV show next month but I intend to contact some of the vendors before then to see if any of them intend to bring a 21RS with them.
> 
> Thanks again
> 
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> Allan


If you don't mine...take a few pictures when you go and post them for all of us to enjoy.


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## Sayonara

Pictures!!


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## hpapa4

Welcome to Outbackers.


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## Allan

Hello Again,

Well I am picking up my new 21RS in Michigan in 2 weeks. So I am planning my travel, installing a Prodigy in my Tundra, and working on a parking spot as the snow is pretty deep here in New Hampshire. Thanks to several of you for advice and I am taking the check out list that is on the site for guidance.

Something that all of you should be aware of, I found that Lake Shore RV has units on E-Bay. After trying to work with our local dealer and getting a very poor "Pre-Show Sale Price" I contacted Holman and Lake Shore. I calculated the delivery costs and the other issues associated with buying a unit that was not local and then got the pricing from the long distance dealers. In the process I took a quick shot at E-bay and there was Lake Shore with a brand new 2008 21 RS up for bid. I made a bid, won, and decided to pick up my new 2008 unit. I bid and won on a price well below Holman's.

I also learned something in the process. The 21RS LE is a "Limited Edition" but not in the way we normally think of this name. They eliminated a lot of the great features on the standard version and therefore it sells for substantially less. You still have the sleeping space but the enclosed under belly, outside camping kitchen, bicycle storage door, and a number of other things are gone.

It is my intention to haul the trailer back and stay in motels as I do not want to use the trailer in freezing temperatures. Are there any other things I need to be aware of? I believe that my 5.7L Tundra should just need the brake controller and they are giving me an equalizer hitch as part of the package, it was a "Christmas Bonus".


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## wolfwood

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!! It'll be great to have another Outback in the neighborhood!

YIKES! Driving out & back in 2 weeks?! Be careful - this weather has been really squirrely lately! Maybe some one who does some winter camping can advise you on chains so that, if you need them (anywhere but especially in the Poconos & Berkshires), you'll have them and know how to use them!


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## BoaterDan

Allan said:


> It is my intention to haul the trailer back and stay in motels as I do not want to use the trailer in freezing temperatures. Are there any other things I need to be aware of? I believe that my 5.7L Tundra should just need the brake controller and they are giving me an equalizer hitch as part of the package, it was a "Christmas Bonus".


Where's the adventure in that? Come on, just one night?







Actually, if the 21RS is a tent slide-out model I wouldn't want to mess with that either for the first time in this weather, but there's always the hide-a-bed! The furnace will run you out of there sweating, if that's what you were worried about.

Oh yeah, CONGRATS! If you come down I96 on your way home give us a toot on the horn, or maybe you want to see some sights while here???!!


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## drobe5150

allan:

welcome aboard, & congrats on your new 21rs.
enjoy your road trip and be carefull on the way home.

darrel


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## 2500Ram

Congrats on the new TT and be safe on the trip home, winter travel yikes!

_*Some tips I've read never practiced.*_
Set your brake controller gain down so you don't lock up the TT brakes on ice and snow, it can slide left or right in or out of your lane dragging you with it.
Your WD system, put more tongue weight on the rear of the TV as to not loose drive power and again this will aid in stopping in a straight line.
If chains are necessary chain the rear tires of the TT not your TV. If your TV can't pull the trailer you won't be able to stop it, but you can at least stop in a strait line with chains on the trailer cable type (follow manufacturer speed recommendations).
Drive slow, leave plenty of stopping space and pack an overnight bag with food. You will have an apartment on wheels behind you, you can fire up the furnace and sleep, wait out a storm if the roads/weather get too bad.

Heck during your PDI fire up the fridge and freezer and pack your food in there. As long as you don't have any tunnels we run with ours running every trip. (shut off the fridge before fueling though, a spark from the fridge igniter could be a bad way to get to know the local FD)

Again welcome, be safe and keep us posted and *I have never pulled our trailer in the snow or ice*, this is information I've collected from different sites on the internet.

Bill.


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## whodey

Congratulations Allan! I'm glad you found a good deal. The old internet does payoff every once in a while. Heck, you can't beat that "Christmas Bonus". BE SAFE, not the best of weather out there. Like said previously, you're towing a suite, use it if you need it.

Mike


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## Allan

2500Ram said:


> Congrats on the new TT and be safe on the trip home, winter travel yikes!
> 
> _*Some tips I've read never practiced.*_
> Set your brake controller gain down so you don't lock up the TT brakes on ice and snow, it can slide left or right in or out of your lane dragging you with it.
> Your WD system, put more tongue weight on the rear of the TV as to not loose drive power and again this will aid in stopping in a straight line.
> If chains are necessary chain the rear tires of the TT not your TV. If your TV can't pull the trailer you won't be able to stop it, but you can at least stop in a strait line with chains on the trailer cable type (follow manufacturer speed recommendations).
> Drive slow, leave plenty of stopping space and pack an overnight bag with food. You will have an apartment on wheels behind you, you can fire up the furnace and sleep, wait out a storm if the roads/weather get too bad.
> 
> Heck during your PDI fire up the fridge and freezer and pack your food in there. As long as you don't have any tunnels we run with ours running every trip. (shut off the fridge before fueling though, a spark from the fridge igniter could be a bad way to get to know the local FD)
> 
> Again welcome, be safe and keep us posted and *I have never pulled our trailer in the snow or ice*, this is information I've collected from different sites on the internet.
> 
> Bill.


Hi,
I have plenty of time available to me for this trip as I am semi-retired, have taken the week off and I intend to park at a motel and sit out any storm. My truck is 4 wheel drive but I only intend to use it to pull me out of the snow pile we are in when a storm is over. 
AAA told me NOT to go out by way of Rt. 90 due to fast developing local storms and has routed me out there by Rt. 80. Not my favorite with the truck traffic, it's the longer route, but better safe than sorry I guess. Also it keeps me out of Vermont and Canada as I am driving from New Hampshire.
Thanks for the advice. I was wondering about the brake controller but I hope to keep my driving on relatively wet/dry pavement even if it costs me a few extra days.
Allan


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## 'Ohana

Welcome to Outbackers ALLAN, congrats on your New TT, have a safe trip and be sure to let us know when your home safe and sound









Ed


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