# Off Topic... Or Off The Tracks?



## PDX_Doug

In watching the forum for the last few months, I have noticed a trend that is - to me at least - disturbing...

We have always allowed, even encouraged, discussion of a wide range of topics. Many with no connection whatsoever to Outback ownership or camping in general. Now, I don't mean to try and reverse that here, but it seems that these topics are taking over the community to the exclusion of the very reasons that brought us all here in the first place. Case in point:

On September 19th, I posted a thread announcing a number of new Outback and Sydney models just added to the Keystone website, the topic is titled New Outback And Sydney Floor-plans Are Posted.

A couple of days ago, on December 21st, another thread was posted to draw attention to yet another batch of Outback designs, Keystone Adds New Outback Models, Including a 5th wheel... an it's not a Sydney!.

Now, never mind the fact that nobody bothered to comment on either of these announcements, but in both cases only THREE people even bothered to read the posts! We'll get hundreds of reads on a Stupid Pet Tricks video, and dozens of comments on a 'What was your childhood favorite flavor ice cream flavor?' thread, but few of us seem to give a rip about our beloved hobby or the brand we were all so rabidly proud of in the past.

Is it just me... Or have we drifted a little too far Off Topic?

I'm just saying.









Happy Trails,
Doug


----------



## Doxie-Doglover-Too

I'll go first I guess. One of the reasons I love this forum is that we talk and share just about everything. I originally came to the forum because I bought an Outback, but if all that was talked about was trailers, mod, camping...I wouldn't stay. I come here for information AND fun AND laughter and being able to talk and share about so much whether is camping, trailers, births, deaths, sports, kids, health, or "stupid pet videos". It's a great forum in that it's so much. Isn't that why there are so many categories?









Anyway, I for one, love it. I don't have much to offer to say if it's about camping unless I am going or just came back or we are hyped about a rally.

I am not trailer shopping so rarely check out new models.









I love this forum but wouldn't have much reason to participate in being a member if all we talked about was camping and trailers. 
Just my .02, I always wanted to say that!


----------



## clarkely

I have not been here to give an Experienced comment...........However maybe i could give some insight that may be "Fresh" as i have not been here that long.

The first post I topic i did not see the floor plans as was out buying one and had just become aware of it.......the other really was not applicable to me............but as far as going to far off topic..........

Well........... When i first came here i saw a category "Members Hobbies and other Interests" and a category "Off Topic Discussion" which kind of lends itself to "off topic Discussions".

I woul dhave to say i look at some of the titles...........and do not open some as i do not seem interested in them.............But apparently what some may not be interested in ..............may be very interesting to others and vice/versa..........

So i would say to some it probably is to far off topic.......and to others it isn't

Bottom line is .................you have the finest Rv'ing website on the Net............people are respectful and courteous and are willing to advise and help others in a constructive manor.............."If it aint broke, don't fix it".

I am sure the topics, traditionally, become more off topic over the Non Traditional camping winter season.

Merry Christmas!!


----------



## CamperAndy

Doug it may be the time of year or the economy. I think not a not a lot of people shopping.

Now if you mention the two tone cabinets well that is something to talk about, especially if there is a new dumb dog trick going on in the back ground.


----------



## Oregon_Camper

I see where you're going Doug, but I chalk it up to Winter blues. We get some Outback related questions/comments, but a lot of people like to share other things with members that have become...well...family.

I talk about all sorts of things with my family, and if I see something that might bring laughter (the recent dog in snow video) or useful information (the flaw with IE browser) then I think it is worth sharing. As long as it is posted in the correct forum (ie..Off Topic) then users that don't want non Outback related information, can simply ignore threads for that section.

With most of us having tucked away the Outback for a few months, we kinda get off topic because we're not using them and/or there are less new members joining and asking great questions.


----------



## Doxie-Doglover-Too

Bottom line is .................you have the finest Rv'ing website on the Net............people are respectful and courteous and are willing to advise and help others in a constructive manor.............."If it aint broke, don't fix it".
[/quote]

Perfect!









( and when someone isn't respectful or courteous you or your moderators step right in and take care of it)


----------



## john7349

I have to agree with Doug... It does seem that the topics have drifted somewhat away from Outbacking, but i'm sure the seasons have a lot to do with it too. I find most topics enjoyable and informative. It's all good... Still, my main interest is to see the mods, trailer repairs, how to, etc. Things will change when Spring pops!


----------



## Doxie-Doglover-Too

As long as it is posted in the correct forum (ie..Off Topic) then users that don't want non Outback related information, can simply ignore threads for that section.
[/quote]

I thought that was norm! Read what appeals to you , ignore what doesn't.


----------



## California Jim

I've commented about this in the past and then just let those comments be. But since you have brought it up, here was my response in This Thread on January 10th 2008:

"Ha! What a topic to make my 3000th post to







No, please do not congratulate me.

Because I've been a member of this site since the very beginning and really before it even started, I have a very wide ranging view of how this community has evolved. That evolution has been dramatic. Some might say for the better, others for the worse. There is really no wrong answer.

The membership continues to drive that evolution and with it Outbackers has fast become as much of a social networking site as it is an Outback discussion site. If the past is any indication of the future, then the imbalance of "chatter" to "content" should be expected to continue growing. Perhaps a new name for the website would be warranted at some point in the future.

Again, there is nothing wrong with this change depending upon your outlook, need, or perspective. We can choose to stay and enjoy the revelry or move on to somewhere else more focused on our specific needs and interests."

Well here we are almost 1 year later having the same discussion. Outbackers continues in the direction of becoming primarily a social networking site. Out of nostalgia alone I continue to visit here daily, even while the Outback content erodes before me.


----------



## PDX_Doug

Please don't get me wrong... I'm not suggesting that I want to see all this 'fluff' stop (I enjoy it too), but it's about balance and remembering on a fundamental level why we are here in the first place.

I do appreciate that between the time of year, and the state the economy is in, that not many people are shopping for RV's, but when a forum that is ostensibly a defacto Outback Owners Group isn't even interested in what is out there, it gives one pause. I, like many, have been around here long enough to remember when men would salivate and women would swoon at the mere mention that someone had passed another Outback on the interstate! What's happened to that enthusiasm?

On a more serious note, I was having a conversation with a member where the point was made that they did not feel people with actual questions or issues with their Outbacks were getting as much support from the group as maybe they should. This, to me, is much more bothersome. Outbackers has been famous for the support and help that our membership has always been so willing and eager to provide. If that is not happening - and it's not just one member I have heard this from - you have to question why? What's changed? Two things come to mind. First, are these questions getting lost in the fluff? Not ignored, but just not seen? And, two, are many of the experienced old timers drifting away and/or participating less because of all the unrelated discussions? Personally, I don't know the answer to those questions, but the suggestions have not been been infrequent.

I think in many ways the community is at a crossroads. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It can be a sign of maturing and evolution. But maybe we need to ask ourselves where we want this community to go. Are we in fact an Outback Owners Group, or is being an Outbacker much more a state of mind than a brand loyalty? Are we a camping community, or a broader social networking site? The reality is, that we are - and probably should be - a little bit of all those things. If that is the case, maybe there are tools that we can employ to keep the peace and cohesion between all the different interests that Outbackers represents.

It's all about balance.

Someone mentioned earlier, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.". There is nobody that believes or tries to follow that philosophy more than I. But due diligence demands that sometimes you do have to ask the question... Is it broke? You guys tell me.

Happy Trails,
Doug


----------



## huntr70

PDX_Doug said:


> In watching the forum for the last few months, I have noticed a trend that is - to me at least - disturbing...
> 
> We have always allowed, even encouraged, discussion of a wide range of topics. Many with no connection whatsoever to Outback ownership or camping in general. Now, I don't mean to try and reverse that here, but it seems that these topics are taking over the community to the exclusion of the very reasons that brought us all here in the first place. Case in point:
> 
> On September 19th, I posted a thread announcing a number of new Outback and Sydney models just added to the Keystone website, the topic is titled New Outback And Sydney Floor-plans Are Posted.
> 
> A couple of days ago, on December 21st, another thread was posted to draw attention to yet another batch of Outback designs, Keystone Adds New Outback Models, Including a 5th wheel... an it's not a Sydney!.
> 
> Now, never mind the fact that nobody bothered to comment on either of these announcements, but in both cases only THREE people even bothered to read the posts! We'll get hundreds of reads on a Stupid Pet Tricks video, and dozens of comments on a 'What was your childhood favorite flavor ice cream flavor?' thread, but few of us seem to give a rip about our beloved hobby or the brand we were all so rabidly proud of in the past.
> 
> Is it just me... Or have we drifted a little too far Off Topic?
> 
> I'm just saying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Happy Trails,
> Doug


Realistically, I never even saw those threads come up.

I use the "view new posts" button every time I log on, and never saw them.

I tried to click the links you posted, and they say 
"The error returned was:
Sorry, the link that brought you to this page seems to be out of date or broken."

Not sure what's up there, but maybe not all of us could see those posts............

On a side note..........on the forum page, there is a list of home pages from people. I've never even heard of 4 of them listed. I realize they must have been members here at one time, but isn't it time to update that list to maybe some active members homepages??

Steve


----------



## clarkely

In my short time here....I have felt and explained the site to my wife as a "Family". 
We are attending at least 1 rally for next year, we are looking at two others.

We have 4 Children and a large network of activities and Camping friends...........so we are stretched.....but we wouldn't miss the opportunity to meet some of our "New Family"..........

Bearing that in mind............I truly do not expect to only talk Camping/campers/rv's/outbacks when attending the rally.......I would hope we will talk, hang out, & connect on some level, which will then broaden our conversations and interactions. We will still talk Outbacks and Outbackers.com as that will be the glue that Bonds us together from all of our different walks of life.

In reading some of the posts i have read...........You gain a sense of trust to your fellow "outbackers", and share things on these forums and this site.............well that you might not otherwise share.....especially online.............whether it is good or bad........i have shared and posted more photo's here than i have anywhere else online..........I feel a senses of community.......i have to sometimes remind myself.............It is still an "Internet" site.

I think its a nice Family!!!!! I also think your questioning and asking of Questions speaks volumes of your commitment to keeping this place..... the great Place it is!!! I certainly appreciate your proactive approach!!

Merry Christmas!!


----------



## Doxie-Doglover-Too

I also think that when you have members that once owned OUtbacks have remained members, that speaks volumes! I understand there may some who have never owned an Outback and still don't and are members ? Must be something right going on here! I think this forum offers a pleasant mixture of everything. The moderators and you, Doug, keep the riff raff out, and shut down the inappropiate, offensive or heated posts.

Finally, somebody once said " You Can't Please All Of The People All Of The Time"


----------



## dianee67

"*If it's not related to RVing, Camping, etc. post it here. PLEASE NOTE: This is not an "Anything goes" forum, and is governed by the same Rules and Guidelines as all other forums on this site. 
Forum Led by: Moderators, PDX_Doug *"

*Doug, if you are questioning or have any doubts...the above information is conflicting? And you are absolutely right. The "Off Topic..." is a much more popular topic than others. I usually don't need to ask many questions about my trailer. Which is why we chose an Outback...we don't have any problems with it. It is usually already posted if I do need assistance or have questions. What an awesome sight! My grandma once told me something I will never forget....It is the people who make the church and not how fancy the church is! It is true. This Outback forum has a family of great diversity and I would very much like to be a part of this for a very long time. By the way...I have yet to find "Most memorable childhood ice cream flavor"- ROCKY ROAD forever...*


----------



## ember

Doug,
Stacey and I have been a member here at Outbackers for just under a year, and this is the ONLY forum we belong to. Stacey only reads it, and occasionally has me post an answer or suggestion back to someone. One of our favorite things about Outbackers.com is the feeling of family, and quite frankly we don't really NEED anymore family. Stacey has 8 siblings, and I have 12 we don't NEED any more family, BUT when we found Outbackers, we found family!! When I joined, I got welcome messages in seconds, when I said I was having trouble posting a link, I got several PM's giving me step by step directions, and when I made a link work, I got congrats! When we went to the NE Rally at Chococura, we were welcomed with open arms. When I posted that my Mom had passed away, I received sympathy, condolences, empathy, hugs, prayers and encouragement from people that I had never met, and some that I will never meet, but for those first few long days and nights, they got me through. Today when I was having my 2nd mammogram in 2weeks time, and the radiologist came in and said the Dr. wanted a sonogram too, while I waited for that I thought I wish I had internet on my cell, because I'm sure somebody on there would tell me this REALLY was normal like "they" were telling me! So we are family, and judging from my biological family, I don't think what we talk about can really be controlled, regardless of what title we give the topic.
I for the most part don't read the new floorplans, because we have the Abi-one, and she is perfect!! She is our 2nd OB, and is responsible for leading us to you!
Merry Christmas!! 
Ember

(as a footnote I don't have to go back to the Dr. for 6months, so thanks for being there, even when you didn't know you were!!)


----------



## Doxie-Doglover-Too

ember said:


> Doug,
> Stacey and I have been a member here at Outbackers for just under a year, and this is the ONLY forum we belong to. Stacey only reads it, and occasionally has me post an answer or suggestion back to someone. One of our favorite things about Outbackers.com is the feeling of family, and quite frankly we don't really NEED anymore family. Stacey has 8 siblings, and I have 12 we don't NEED any more family, BUT when we found Outbackers, we found family!! When I joined, I got welcome messages in seconds, when I said I was having trouble posting a link, I got several PM's giving me step by step directions, and when I made a link work, I got congrats! When we went to the NE Rally at Chococura, we were welcomed with open arms. When I posted that my Mom had passed away, I received sympathy, condolences, empathy, hugs, prayers and encouragement from people that I had never met, and some that I will never meet, but for those first few long days and nights, they got me through. Today when I was having my 2nd mammogram in 2weeks time, and the radiologist came in and said the Dr. wanted a sonogram too, while I waited for that I thought I wish I had internet on my cell, because I'm sure somebody on there would tell me this REALLY was normal like "they" were telling me! So we are family, and judging from my biological family, I don't think what we talk about can really be controlled, regardless of what title we give the topic.
> I for the most part don't read the new floorplans, because we have the Abi-one, and she is perfect!! She is our 2nd OB, and is responsible for leading us to you!
> Merry Christmas!!
> Ember
> 
> (as a footnote I don't have to go back to the Dr. for 6months, so thanks for being there, even when you didn't know you were!!)


Yay on not needing another appt for 6 months! (been there, done that!).

You put it well Ember, this is a family and although a camping forum, it's not just about camping. Camping is family fun and this family friendly forum is well balanced. It's like a buffet, pick what you want and like and don't bother with the rest. Think of the humor and zaniness ( is that a word?) as the dessert at the buffet







.

I have met people on here AND in person that mean something to me. If the world were perfect I'd meet all of them. We are mostly a big family of strangers.

All the support, advice, ideas, solutions, hugs, that are on this forum is overwhelming. Something that happened during the most recent hurricane season that has stuck with me , was an Outbacker , I can't remember which one but I want to say in Texas, posted on here that he was unaffected by the storm and was offering the extra rooms in his house if anyone needed it. TO TOTAL STRANGERS! Gotta love it.

Oh, and one more thing: Where else could I make a friend that I will probably never meet and she sent me a whole dozen of Cider Donuts ?







I have the proof on my hips.

So, you could stay in the house of an Outbacker, eat the donuts of another, and get advice and ideas and opinions on how to repair or mod your Outback by being on the forum. Cool!


----------



## Outback Wannabe

Well for my two cents worth, I think this site is great. I have been here four years, mostly just lurking, and some replies. I am still an Outback Wannabe because things in life have come along. I do look and read about the floorplans, looking to see if they have one better than the I have in mind. I also enjoy the tellings of camping trips because we are not able to at this time, makes me feel connected to camping. I also enjoy the funny post and the serious family post.

I believe ALL of these topics/catagories make this site a very well rounded place to enjoy. Keep up the good work.


----------



## Collinsfam_WY

You are right, Doug. It has changed in the manner you are referring to and also in other ways I am sure you are aware of but have not brought up. Short story...ages ago, my grandfather once told me to grab the end of a rod he was holding. Without thinking about what I was about to do, I did. He mashed a button on it and without another word, I knew which end of the cattle prod was the wrong end to grab. Tough lesson but I learned more than just that. Not too long after, we were out hunting and chuckling to himself he said, "Son, come over here and pee on this fence". This time I thought about it and noticed that this "fence" didn't look anything like any of the other barbed wire fences on the farm. I declined. He laughed and then seriously proceeded to tell me all about about electric fences.

Is the forum different? Yes (in a couple of ways). Along with that, my posting habits have changed as well. Is it broke - I dunno.

-CC


----------



## Moosegut

I think it has changed but I don't know that that is necessarily a bad thing and I think there are a number of contributing factors. First, the sheer number of members dictates a broader base for varying interests. Doug, you're member 653. When I joined I became member 1525. We now have what? Nine thousand members? That's a lot of people generating ideas.

I read the board several times a week - sometimes daily. But I don't post as often as I used to simply because what I would have said, has been said already. Though I love to write, I don't see any sense filling up a thread with repetitive "fluff." Certainly there are times to repeat or parrot others - when reinforcing the superiority of a Prodigy brake controller, for instance - but, for the most part, with 9,000(?) members, by the time I get a chance to post on a subject, it's been covered already.

Also, Outbacks used to be rarer, and I'm not just talking about the "I just bought one and now that's all I see on the road" phenomenon. When I bought mine, I'd never seen one before - on the road or in a campground. The design was unique and people felt a bond in this "uniqueness." Then they started taking off and now I see them often - on the road and in campgrounds.

The design is still unique but I think Keystone shot itself in the foot by eliminating the quad bunk models. Outbacks are becoming, more-and-more, an "average" TT. If I were shopping for the first time today, I doubt I'd buy an Outback because I want the quad bunks. I think we're going to see more of this. A family with 3 or 4 children does not want to have to make up the dinette every night - they want bunks. Because of this, they will buy another brand. BUT because of the atmosphere here they may stay on the board.

The number of SOB members is testament to this. Some are former Outback owners and some were looking at Outbacks and bought other brands - while remaining as active members. They ask if they can stay and we welcome them aboard when they do. So, the conversation drifts from the quad bunk room wardrobe mod to the quad ATV weekend rally. I think it's a natural progression as the Outback melds into a regular TT.

Perhaps a name change IS in order. Something with the original name in it to show what the original focus was and for the most part (at least for now) still is. I don't know - Outbackers&RVers.com? I'm not suggesting it happen as, You Da Man Doug, but since you're thinking about the direction of the board, maybe it's just one more thing to think about. At any rate, even if I did sell my TT, I'd want to remain a member. I'm sure anyone (with very few exceptions) who has become part of the Outbacker Family" feels the same way.

Scott


----------



## psychodad

clarkely said:


> In my short time here....I have felt and explained the site to my wife as a "Family".
> We are attending at least 1 rally for next year, we are looking at two others.
> 
> We have 4 Children and a large network of activities and Camping friends...........so we are stretched.....but we wouldn't miss the opportunity to meet some of our "New Family"..........
> 
> Bearing that in mind............I truly do not expect to only talk Camping/campers/rv's/outbacks when attending the rally.......I would hope we will talk, hang out, & connect on some level, which will then broaden our conversations and interactions. We will still talk Outbacks and Outbackers.com as that will be the glue that Bonds us together from all of our different walks of life.
> 
> In reading some of the posts i have read...........You gain a sense of trust to your fellow "outbackers", and share things on these forums and this site.............well that you might not otherwise share.....especially online.............whether it is good or bad........i have shared and posted more photo's here than i have anywhere else online..........I feel a senses of community.......i have to sometimes remind myself.............It is still an "Internet" site.
> 
> I think its a nice Family!!!!! I also think your questioning and asking of Questions speaks volumes of your commitment to keeping this place..... the great Place it is!!! I certainly appreciate your proactive approach!!
> 
> Merry Christmas!!


Very well put clarkely. As one of the newest members, I am still learning how to use this site. If I am misusing it, I hope someone would tell me so I can improve. One thing we cam always count on in life is "CHANGE"


----------



## Doxie-Doglover-Too

. If I am misusing it, I hope someone would tell me so I can improve. 
[/quote]

oh, they will, they will







. You WILL get a pm if you post something wrong or your post WILL get deleted.







So I've heard, I mean, I think.....







.


----------



## hatcityhosehauler

Well now, if you didn't just go and open up a can of worms.

Like California Jim, I have been here from the beginning. My member# is 119. When I joined, there were only a few folks making posts regularly, and they were all about helping others with problems, as the majority of posts being made were questions. As the members started to get to know each other through the forum, the levity started. Then we started to have rallies, and actually meet each other, and form true friendships, that will last long after Outbackers fade's into cyberspace.

Another thing, previously mentioned by at least two others is the shear volume of posts being made. I have always used the "view new posts" feature, and can remember the time when I could read every single post. A once daily check of the forum would reveal one new page of results, and I would spend the next hour leisurely reading every post, and to a thread here or there. Now, if I check daily, I find 2 to 3 pages, and just don't have the time anymore to sit and read all those, so I just peruse the titles, and if something catches my eye, I read it. I rarely read questions anymore, unless I notice that no one has replied yet, or there is hasn't been many, because I have found that the question is usually answered in the first few replies, and if I don't have anything further to offer, I don't see the need to take up bandwidth.

Take in the fact that individual lives change too. When I first joined Outbackers, my children were 5 and 3. There was not much to take up the time, other then spending time with the kids. Now, they are 9 and 7, and we have Cub Scouts, German Club, Track, Softball, Irish Step dancing, Bagpipe lessons, Union meetings, etc. What free time I do get is at a premium, so I use it wisely.

So what does all this mean...

Outbackers has changed, there is no denying that. Some of it is for the better, some of it is for the worse. I am a member of 2 other camping forums, one I don't visit hardly ever, the other I visit daily. Outbackers falls in the middle. In addition, I belong to several other forums, ranging in topic from Bagpipes, Ford Trucks, and Cub Scouts, to Computer Flight Simulations, and the experience of each is different.

I have heard rumors of ad's being placed on Outbackers soon, I can tell you now that when that starts to happen, I will visit less, as paid advertising is not what I want to see on Outbackers. Of the forums that I belong to, the one's that have paid advertising are the ones I visit the least.

Well, that has been my turn at sharing the wealth. $0.02 is all you get.

Tim


----------



## Scoutr2

Well, I'll bet you guessed I would comment here. I see where Doug is coming rom, but let me add a bit of perspective I haven't seen posted yet . . .

I look at this website as an extension of my Outback camping. I thoroughly enjoy reading about new mods, and have posted a few of my own. I read with interest, the threads about problems with our trailers, so in case I have a similar problem, I know what to look for, etc. And I even reply back to posters if I think I may have some relevant information.

And of course, if I have a problem, I know I can count on someone on this website has "been there, done that, earned the merit badge." I usually get good advice and can correct the problem. And I enjoy the jokes, the men's section, info on campgrounds and places of interest, and the off topic discussions.

But, as I said, I also se this website as an extension of my camping. And when I sit around the campfire with fellow campers, we talk about things other than our trailers. As I sit here, now, I look out at all the ice and snow, realizing that it will be several months before I can spend the next night around a campfire and sleep snug in my Outback, so this website is like a little bit of "campers paradise," if you will.

I tend to talk about the same things here as I would if I were camping - and I don't talk about camping all the time. Especially these days, there are a lot of topics that are on everyone's mind - the economy, their jobs (or loss of), weird weather, our kids and their accomplishments, our pets - you get the picture.

Even though I have never met you, Doug - or most of the folks here, for that matter - I feel I know you as well as I do my neighbors - maybe even better, for some things.

I come here each day - somethimes more than once a day - to converse with friends (albeit long-distance), share the day, and discuss things of importance. A lot of the time, but not always, those important things have nothing to do at all with my Outback or camping - just like conversations around the campfire.

Just my $.02, Doug. (And if you remember, I had "Outbackers withdrawal" symptoms this last summer when I coud not access the website during our two-week trip to Finland!).

So I say - let the site wander where it wants to - as long as things don't stray into the wrong areas. I enjoy the camaraderie here, regardless of the topic.

Mike


----------



## Dub

I'm pretty new but I would say that this is an outbacker's forum not an outback forum. Outbackers are RVers with Outback RVs and this forum is where we post. If it was "Outback.com" then maybe it would be a forum about just the RV, but the name Outbackers suggests people to me.


----------



## mswalt

Well, let me add my two cents...... I, too, have noticed a difference. And my post count the past couple of weeks reflects it. Granted, I've been somewhat busier, but I haven't posted much lately because, well, because the new posts haven't grabbed my attention.

But that doesn't mean they aren't fitting to the forum, or not interesting..... it just means that I haven't had the urge to get in on that particular discussion. But many have. And they're welcome to.

I think this forum is the best. And with the best people, most of whom I have never, or will ever, meet. But I count them in my "circle" of friends and aquaintances.

Personally, I don't see a problem with letting the forum ride as is......monitor those threads you want to catch up on, let the rest go by without commenting.

I really enjoy y'all and get a kick out of most (not all, but most) of your posts! Keep up the good work.

Doug, You have a great thing here and I appreciate the way it's run. Thank you.

Mark


----------



## AZthunderations

I'm probably the last one that should be posting here, but!!
I came to the site asking about Outbacks in the hope of purchasing one. Got lots of help and advice, even a few good leads.
When the oppurtunity arose to purchase a SOB that fit our needs as well or better then an Outback, I posted what we had done and said my "Goodbyes" to the folks that had been so helpful.
I was informed that leaving because of not having an Outback was not nessecary, because the site was not just Outbackers, but many that had owned, wannabes or just curious on lookers. I decided to stay and contribute, as I could, and learn from those that had been down the road a mile or so more then I had. It was a good decision for me as I have learned a lot and perhaps will not make as big a fool of myself as might have happened without the advice gotten here.
Any club, or formal organization will have it's side groups that have similar interests in a subject different then the main club or organization. Thus, we get off the original track and go another route with this side group. That, in my opinion, is what is going on with threads that are in "left field".
When an Outback problem or idea comes about, where's the first place to check on it? Right here.
If you're generally interested in camping trailers and some of the problems, where's a great place to check it out? Right here.
If you mess up real bad and want to let others know what not to do in hopes of saving them the problem, where's a great place to confess? Right here. And you will find others that have done the same thing.
So, Doug, with that said, I think you have a great site with vast knowledge lurking within members that also have lives outside of camping. Pull a chair up to the campfire and enjoy the chatter. A good camping story will always win over ice cream flavors.............Oh, neopolitan.
Thanks, Doug, for providing this great information highway for us.


----------



## campmg

I haven't been active on here in a long time and just found this thread. I see your point PDX and the reason we're all on here surrounds our hobby of camping and the Outback. What brought me back today is wanting to check in with eveyone and touch base with friends I haven't chatted with in months; not an Outback question. I agree its all about balance and this is still the first, and only, place I check for my Outback questions.


----------



## Steve McNeil

Doug,

I will have to say that all times I feel that some post don't really belong here. I also feel that some folks just post a topic and/or reply to rack up their number of post, as if there was an reward for large number of post. But, I also enjoy reading differant post from the members. Most of them are enjoyable and entertaining. I usually learn something new everytime that I get on the site, as my family has only owned an RV for 3-4 years. By reading the differant post, I am able to feel like that I know the folks on the site better. This makes it easier sometimes to ask questions concerning my Outback and feel that the folks here truely care and are trust







. If I only asked questions and didn't read the differant post, I wouldn't feel comfortable to ask questions. I always get great feedback to my questions. This site makes you feel like family when they share the differant topics, especially during the winter months.

Just my thoughts!

Steve

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!


----------



## 4ME

Doug,
I consider this forum the campfire we all gather around.
Sometimes you have troubles when camping and need some advise on how to fix it.
sometimes you just want share a beer and get social.

just my 2cents


----------



## Sayonara

I love the site and enjoy the members very much!! I'm sure there have been noticeable changes over the years but don't necessarily think its going in the wrong direction. Like others, i feel like you all are an extended family.

Coming to Outbackers is like gathering around a "virtual" campfire! Joking around, story telling, bantering, helping with Q&A, discussing the latest and greatest stuff, etc.... with great people!

I wish i had more time tonight to get all sappy but all I can say is thank you to you all for making this site what it is.

Merry Christmas!!


----------



## jbwcamp

"And, two, are many of the experienced old timers drifting away and/or participating less because of all the unrelated discussions?"

Yes I would say that is happening, I know I don't check the forum as often as I used to. Sorry I missed your post on new floor plans, that is something I would have looked at.

Also a lot of new comers and old timers might not post because the forum has taken on a "Chat Room Feeling"

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Ghosty

Perhaps we should divide the site up into two areas ... OUTBACK and RV related items and then all OTHERS...

I will say that with me traveling as much as i do now that if you don't check the site at least once a day then the topic posted today will be gone tomorrow .... it seems that this site gets 30 new posts a day -- and yes -- i agree -- that 50% of them are not related to OUTBACK or camping...

I remember back in Dec 04 when I first came to the site - it was because of this site I bought my OUTBACK.... also there were less then 700 of us and if you asked a question you got an answer...I wuld say that the majority of posts were questions and it seemed to help us all -- plus you could come back to the site after a week and your post was still there and you didn't have to search through 5000 newer posts to see the answers to your questions...

Of course i am also glad that we don't see that race to get the most posts going on anymore -- remember a year ago when everyone was trying to break 1000, then 5000, then 10000 and we had folks posting things 100 times a day to get the count up??? I think that was the beginning of the end in some aspects...

and how about those "OUTBACK SPOTTINGS" that we had a year ago ..

and my whining goes on.... 

Yes I do have to agree that some of us "Old Timers" are coming to the site less and less because its getting to the point that i have to wade through dozens and dozens of postings to get to something that may be useful to me ...or heck, even related to camping at all ... and unfortunately -- like i said -- if someone posts the best post in the world today on Outbackers.com -- poof -- its gone by tomorrow because 30 other folks have posted stories about their pet's bile movements or whatever....

And yes I am as much fault as the next guy for this ....

The site is not bad at all -- in fact rarely can you say that by going to a site like this that one has developed lasting relationships - which I have - its just that the site is getting cluttered ....Holy cow - when you open the page you have to scroll down through 50 different Trailer types folks have voted on having in order to even get to the posts ...

So I think that we just need to find away of when we are signing in, to seeing two columns of info -- OUTBACK/RV/Camping related stuff and ALL OTHERS....

But with all that said -- this is one site that I hope does not go away ...

just my .02


----------



## 5th Time Around

I know that when we first bought our Outback, this was the place to ask questions and get answers. I have a OB fifth wheel so there are so few of us, my questions don't always get answered (Thanks to all who did answer my questions like: Jimmie, JDPM, 3Lees....) I also have been introduced to many new camping things here like Geocaching and HDR. This all makes the whole rving experience that much better. Having been to a rally with the 'local' outbackers I can agree with other posts that the conversation did not revolve around Outbacks for days. I would love to see more Mods but I think that times are tough and spending money on the camper is falling down the list. For my family, we can only camp once per month, which is the only time to mod as we can bring the camper home. I am greatful for all the friends that I have met here that I would have never met. This is the only forum I belong to. My recent post today was because I searched other forums on my topic and couldn't find an answer. I know that the Outbackers have a wide range of knowledge and don't mind giving advice so I posted it here. I agree that I would not like to have ads on the website, I prefer to be a 'Contributor'.


----------



## garyb1st

PDX_Doug said:


> In watching the forum for the last few months, I have noticed a trend that is - to me at least - disturbing...Happy Trails,
> Doug


I think Doug has some legitimate concerns. He has 4+ years invested in navigating Outbackers and is largely responsible for what it is today. Having said that, as talented as he is, I don't think Outbackers would have become as successful as it has without it's solid core of regular posters. Many of the core members view Outbackers as an extension of their family. While the family atmosphere can be a great asset to any organization it is not without it's potential downside.

When I joined Outbackers just over a year ago, I didn't own a trailer. To be honest, I didn't know one trailer from another. Forget about the electrical, plumbing, heating, air conditioning and all the other systems. How difficult could that be? And how could the hitch possibly be a concern. You buy a trailer, you negotiate from a position of strength and they give you a hitch. No additional charge. You're good to go. You're out the door and ready to roll. Right? Wrong. At least if you value you life.

In the six months I've been posting I've learned a great deal about trailers and trailering. Some of the most valuable things I've learned would never have surfaced if it weren't for this forum. I haven't mastered the fixes but at least I am aware and more importantly know where to look. For example, hooking up to a 30 amp service at a campground. How could that be a problem. From what I've learned at Outbackers, it can be a big problem and result in expensive repairs. I had no idea that surges or inadequate power had the potential of damaging my trailers systems. That would be an expensive lesson. But how do I protect myself from the vast unknowns (at least to me) of trailering. Forget about how, "why" would I even research things of that nature. More to the point, why would I even consider things of that nature to be an issue. But thanks to the many generous members of Outbackers that information is available in spades and if you can't find the answer, there's someone a pixel or two away that will.

The downside I mentioned occurs when the "extended family" losses sight of the main purpose of the group. Some times that happens simply because many of the threads have a "been there done that" feel to them. I mean, how many times are we going to discuss trailer sway? Well, that depends on how long you've been a member and whether you're buying a trailer for the first time or upgrading. If you're new and you value your life, another discussion will be greatly appreciated.

Whenever I'm looking for information and come across a forum I do a search to find what I'm looking for. I guess most people do that. But if I were looking to join a forum I would peruse the site and look at as many posts as I could. If that led me to the "Today's Active Topics" page and quickly reading through the topics left me with the feeling that I wasn't going to find much on trailering at this site, I'd simply move on and look elsewhere. From my perspective, that's the potential downside to too much banter. At least I think it is from the perspective of some prospective members.

Like Doug, I have started some threads which didn't get many responses. Others were almost pushed off the active topics by the sheer number of new threads before someone finally responded. When a topic drops off the current list, it rarely sees the light of day again. I've been close to responding to my own post thinking if I didn't it would disappear into the vast world of the other forums never to be seen again except due to the off chance that someone was doing a search and came across my thread. But even then if no one had responded, it probably would have been passed up again. I mean if someone is doing a search, they're looking for answers, not more questions.

If I had known that Outbackers was a family oriented forum comprised mostly of a group of senior members who are about as close as a group of strangers could possibly get in a virtual environment I wouldn't have joined. Don't get me wrong. I'm glad I'm here and I've enjoyed many of the off topic posts and have participated in my share. But that's not the reason I joined.

I would hate to see a forum devoid of off-topic discussions. They are fun and add value to the site. But too much of a good thing can be a problem. And when they become highly personal as is often the case at Outbackers, it is hard for the newbie to feel included. It's a bit like walking into a theater half way through the picture. You've missed the background and while you want to participate you don't want to be out of bounds and occasionally it feels a bit like eavesdropping. That can turn new members off. I would hate to see potential members move on because they didn't think there was value here at Outbackers. There is. Probably more than at most other forums. And the help doesn't come with an attitude.


----------



## OBcanOB

Doug, I bet it is at this time every year that the site gets skewed towards non RV activity. As soon as the sun shines, the snow is gone, and everyone is chomping at the bit to get on the road and go camping... when those waiting to purchase are looking real hard so they can get out in their dream... you'll get the majority of posts towards Outbacks, Mods, Where to Camp, and so on.

In the couple years I've been on Outbackers I've found it to be the friendliest, most informative site on the WWW. Great people, great moderation. Help with virtually any subject.

So, when the winter blah's keep us indoors too long, and we're all getting cabin fever, it's probably good for us all to socialize a bit more.

Kudos to you and your team.


----------



## Scoutr2

OK. One more reply from me. Let's let the numbers do the talking . . . (as of 12/26 AM)

Under the sub-forum of "Travel Trailers & Fifth Wheels" (Mods, Towing & Vehicles, Problems-Solutions & Aftermarket, etc.), there are 14,306 posted topics with 172,489 replies.

Under the sub-forum of "Camping" (Campground Information, Camping with Pets, etc), there are an additional 2788 posted topics with 23, 206 replies.

That brings the total of "Camping Related" posted topics to 17,094 with 195,695 replies.









Conversely, under the sub-forum titled, "Outbackers Community" (Off Topic Discussions, Recipes, Men's Corner, Women's Corner, Jokes Outback, etc - all of which tend to lend themselves to non-Outback subjects), there are a total of 5893 posted topics with 64,575 replies.

The "camping related" sub-forum topics with the most activity are, "General RV Discussions," "Towing Solutions & Vehicles," "Problems, Solutions, and Aftermarket" and "Mods" - in that order.









Just quickly computed in my head, the "camping related" topics and replies outnumber the other stuff by a 3:1 margin. Granted, some of the replies wander off the original subject, but then again, so do most casual conversations between friends.

And we are all friends here, right?









Doug - I'd say that things are humming along rather well. I think that the observations by some of the "Old Timers" of the forum having a lot more unrelated posts are due to the huge increase of new members (which speaks volumes about the quality of the site). When more people are members, the number of daily posts and replies will increase - both camping related, and otherwise. It's just simple math.

And so, as one who posts and replies to both "Camping Related" and "Non-Camping Related" topics, I have donated a modest amount of money to the website again this year. I would encourage all Outbackers to do the same, if they haven't already, and can see their way clear to send $10-$20 (or more) to help Doug and the rest of the moderators with the costs of maintaining this forum. (Nuthin's for free!)

Happy New Year to all Outbackers, and I look forward to another year of socializing, virtually, with all of you - no matter what the topic.

Mike


----------



## Oregon_Camper

Scoutr2 said:


> ...snip....
> I have donated a modest amount of money to the website again this year. I would encourage all Outbackers to do the same, if they haven't already, and can see their way clear to send $10-$20 (or more) to help Doug and the rest of the moderators with the costs of maintaining this forum. (Nuthin's for free!)


This is a great reminder to everyone. I will create a topic just on this so everyone can remember to toss Doug a few $$ to help maintain this site.


----------



## prevish gang

Some of us don't own Outbacks anymore but come by just to keep track of rallies and such. I respond when I feel I can be of help to someone, but don't really have time for the "fluff" that seems to be most of the topics lately and since I am an outsider don't feel the need to read the "cliquish" comments. The site helped me greatly when I first began camping though and I will do what I can to help when I feel I have something to offer.

Oregon camper started a thread for donations. I have contributed in the past, but am curious. A site like this cost what to run? If memory serves me correctly, it's about $100 a year for everything, right?


----------



## CamperAndy

prevish gang said:


> Some of us don't own Outbacks anymore but come by just to keep track of rallies and such. I respond when I feel I can be of help to someone, but don't really have time for the "fluff" that seems to be most of the topics lately and since I am an outsider don't feel the need to read the "cliquish" comments. The site helped me greatly when I first began camping though and I will do what I can to help when I feel I have something to offer.
> 
> Oregon camper started a thread for donations. I have contributed in the past, but am curious. A site like this cost what to run? If memory serves me correctly, it's about $100 a year for everything, right?


Darlene - there is a lot that goes into the cost and you will not get a full answer here (at least not one you will like or agree with) but be well aware that it costs well over $100 a year. The costs have a lot to do with bandwidth used and storage requirements and at the size Outbackers is at it is more then some of the smaller sites with only a little bandwidth use.

This is not a for profit site and you can see that by the total lack of advertising. You can donate or not, it is up to you and irrespective of if you do or don't you are welcome to keep adding your two cents anyway you see fit. We all enjoy the entertainment it provides.


----------



## Sayonara

prevish gang said:


> A site like this cost what to run? If memory serves me correctly, it's about $100 a year for everything, right?


I make a contribution because of the value of the support, help and friendship Outbackers provides, not as a fraction of what it costs Doug to run.
I appreciate all that Outbackers.com provides !!

Thanks members and Thank You Doug !!


----------



## swanny

my turn, when i turn my computer on i check my email, the news and the Outbackers forum. since i joined i have traded my outback for SOB. now when i turn on my computer it's still the same order, mail, news, OutBackers. why? i enjoy the site and the people!!! during the summer when there is 3 or more pages to check i read what catches my attention no matter what that is. i also ignore many topics. so during to summer i check in often because the topics change often. now this time of year i find myself checking only a couple time a week. why? things don't seem to change as often. do i miss stuff, probably, because i am a" check only active topics" reader. the bottom line imo is if we are not camping as often we're probably not posting about camping or our rv's as often. so we need to hang in there until the season comes around, and until then just have fun!


----------



## Tyvekcat

Yeah, we still love our 21RS. I got a new Coleman cooler for Christmas, (stainless steel).
Have a Good One !


----------



## BigBadBrain

I've found myself visiting less frequently in the off season due to a shift in my hobby interests. When I do log in, I look for a couple different things: 1) camping related topics (where people have gone, what they've done, etc.). 2) Camper issues that could affect my own camping experiences (doesn't have to be an Outback unique thing). 3) Posts or replies from people I know or have known for a long time on Outbackers.

I rarely read all of the 'new posts' but that is where I start. I don't spend as much time here as I used to and I think the main reason is that I'm engaged in other things during the off season - telescopes and astrophotography (lots of $$, time for the setup, testing, post processing, and frustration during this time of the year) - photography, especially birds during the winter, and of course family (the college years and college prep are still pretty absorbing).

So competing interests and a more seasonal approach by myself and others leads me to understand why Outbackers might change it's character over time. Also, there are so many Outback models now and many of them are not even close to my 23rs so of the few specific camper related issues discussed only a few of those are related to my situation (and I think that goes for everyone - most of the newer models would have comments and questions rather than us guys with the older camper models).

I don't mean to hijack the thread but here's an example, taken just last week, of what can keep me engrossed outside of camping (but also something I like to share with my Outbacker friends):






Wintering male Anna's Hummingbird - one of three or four that are staying at our place for the winter and make a great subject for photography. Taken with a Canon 350D with a Canon 100-400L lens at 400mm from 10 feet - modest crop.


----------



## Oregon_Camper

Brian....gert picture! I can only dream of taking pictures like that.

You should start another thread and having everyone submit one picture (their best) so we can all enjoy them.

Again...great shot!!!


----------



## BigBadBrain

I think Wolfy started one like that somewhere. I'll have to go look for it. (Of course if it were a BLOG I could find it quickly







(sorry, couldn't resist).

Now, back to our regularly scheduled topic...


----------



## z-family




----------



## Carey

I know I make lots of new posts on new ideas, products, whats going on in the rv world and auto world. I always try to keep it rv related, but sometimes its gets a lil skewd.. Ok, I'll quit that.. I figure I am to blame too. And yea I'm one of those group of 69 people with 1000 posts or more. I do start lots of new posts.. So I am one to blame..

Not a biggie.. I read news for a hobby, always have. I'll just try to keep it to myself when I'm on here.. Right now there is a ton of news related to rv's, happening in the world. But I understand, none of it is really Outback related. Its all SOB related.. So I understand how that could look off topic..

My feelings arent hurt a bit.. I am going back to hauling rv's in Feb. I will still post all of the cool pics and stories I find out there. Yea I know thats kinda off topic also.. Oh well, lol

Carey


----------



## Yianni

Not a biggie.. I read news for a hobby, always have. I'll just try to keep it to myself when I'm on here.. Right now there is a ton of news related to rv's, happening in the world. But I understand, none of it is really Outback related. Its all SOB related.. So I understand how that could look off topic..

Carey,
I hope you don't stop posting about industry news and news of vehicle manufacture.
I find all those posts very interesting as this is information on the state of the RV industry I would not have found anywhere else.
When you post it feels like we have a member of our group on the inside letting us know what's happening.


----------



## prevish gang

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> I know I make lots of new posts on new ideas, products, whats going on in the rv world and auto world. I always try to keep it rv related, but sometimes its gets a lil skewd.. Ok, I'll quit that.. I figure I am to blame too. And yea I'm one of those group of 69 people with 1000 posts or more. I do start lots of new posts.. So I am one to blame..
> 
> Not a biggie.. I read news for a hobby, always have. I'll just try to keep it to myself when I'm on here.. Right now there is a ton of news related to rv's, happening in the world. But I understand, none of it is really Outback related. Its all SOB related.. So I understand how that could look off topic..
> 
> My feelings arent hurt a bit.. I am going back to hauling rv's in Feb. I will still post all of the cool pics and stories I find out there. Yea I know thats kinda off topic also.. Oh well, lol
> 
> Carey


I agree with Yianni. Since most of what you post has to do with the industry overall, I usually read what you post. I drooled at the new Everest you recently posted and can't wait to see it in person. It might be my "retirement" home.


----------



## garyb1st

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> I know I make lots of new posts on new ideas, products, whats going on in the rv world and auto world. I always try to keep it rv related, but sometimes its gets a lil skewd.. Ok, I'll quit that.. I figure I am to blame too. And yea I'm one of those group of 69 people with 1000 posts or more. I do start lots of new posts.. So I am one to blame..
> 
> Not a biggie.. I read news for a hobby, always have. I'll just try to keep it to myself when I'm on here.. Right now there is a ton of news related to rv's, happening in the world. But I understand, none of it is really Outback related. Its all SOB related.. So I understand how that could look off topic..
> 
> My feelings arent hurt a bit.. I am going back to hauling rv's in Feb. I will still post all of the cool pics and stories I find out there. Yea I know thats kinda off topic also.. Oh well, lol
> 
> Carey


Carey, I think most of the stuff you post is right on point. Please keep it up.


----------



## Carey

Ok.. I was setting there reading all those posts on this thread, thinkin, man, I dont post very much stuff on topic here.. I guess maybe I should quit.. Dont want to make people mad.. I could totally understand getting the pointers on me, cause I do tend to post off my hip a bit..

Another problem I have, is, I always let my emotions run on a bit.. It really is in good fun though.. I never mean to hurt any feelings.

Well shoot! I prolly should have kept my thoughts to myself, lol Didnt mean to spark up anything and make a mess like I tend to do.. Sorry all..

Carey


----------



## huntr70

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Ok.. I was setting there reading all those posts on this thread, thinkin, man, I dont post very much stuff on topic here.. I guess maybe I should quit.. Dont want to make people mad.. I could totally understand getting the pointers on me, cause I do tend to post off my hip a bit..
> 
> Another problem I have, is, I always let my emotions run on a bit.. It really is in good fun though.. I never mean to hurt any feelings.
> 
> Well shoot! I prolly should have kept my thoughts to myself, lol Didnt mean to spark up anything and make a mess like I tend to do.. Sorry all..
> 
> Carey


I personally enjoy your posts about the RV industry.......

You can't be any more on target than that on a camping/Rv forum!!!!

It's the back and forth dribble that gets tiresome.

I even miss Hootbob's daily Happy Birthday threads......

Steve


----------



## prevish gang

huntr70 said:


> Ok.. I was setting there reading all those posts on this thread, thinkin, man, I dont post very much stuff on topic here.. I guess maybe I should quit.. Dont want to make people mad.. I could totally understand getting the pointers on me, cause I do tend to post off my hip a bit..
> 
> Another problem I have, is, I always let my emotions run on a bit.. It really is in good fun though.. I never mean to hurt any feelings.
> 
> Well shoot! I prolly should have kept my thoughts to myself, lol Didnt mean to spark up anything and make a mess like I tend to do.. Sorry all..
> 
> Carey


I personally enjoy your posts about the RV industry.......

You can't be any more on target than that on a camping/Rv forum!!!!

It's the back and forth dribble that gets tiresome.

I even miss Hootbob's daily Happy Birthday threads......

Steve
[/quote]

I miss Hootbob, period. He used to be so integral in the forums, but has faded away. Haven't seen much of Jollymon or most of the other older moderators either. That's puzzling to me. Seems that the forum is really moderated by only a couple of folks now.


----------

