# The Fun Begins....



## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Just received a call from Keystone RV - We were notified that our '09 250RS came off the assembly line with a defect in the large kitchen window. The defect is that the window was not centered on install. The good news is that it is going to be taken care of at a local RV dealership that sells Keystone TT (but not the Outback line) will do the repair.

Sound good so far? When the trailer was delivered on Sunday, there was a mix up with the paperwork and I was to be sent new paperwork to sign and return. Missing from my package was the TT license plate. I now have a call into Meyers RV (Camping World) to get things rolling.

Aside from the challenge of getting the TT there (I have a broken foot), I need to determine the best way to protect this window - as it may leak. Keystone said to use duck tape over the top edge. Speaking with the local RV center they said that it may leave some tape marks. Something I really don't want on the new Outback.

So - any suggestions on how to cover this besides duck tape? I guess I can always pull the canopy out a little??


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

Maybe get some painter tape or graphers tape that will come off easier. You could also wrap the camper in stretch wrap which would be fun with a broken foot.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

rdvholtwood said:


> Just received a call from Keystone RV - We were notified that our '09 250RS came off the assembly line with a defect in the large kitchen window. The defect is that the window was not centered on install. The good news is that it is going to be taken care of at a local RV dealership that sells Keystone TT (but not the Outback line) will do the repair.
> 
> Sound good so far? When the trailer was delivered on Sunday, there was a mix up with the paperwork and I was to be sent new paperwork to sign and return. Missing from my package was the TT license plate. I now have a call into Meyers RV (Camping World) to get things rolling.
> 
> ...


I would NOT pull out the canopy........wind will get it and you will have worse Headaches.......

I guess it is good they caught it and called you....... i hope mine is not bad.......

I would use Duck Tape or tyvek tape.........You will be able to get the Glue residue off...........it may not be easy but you can.........or put a tarp over it from one side to the other at that location.............


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

rdvholtwood said:


> Just received a call from Keystone RV - We were notified that our '09 250RS came off the assembly line with a defect in the large kitchen window. The defect is that the window was not centered on install. The good news is that it is going to be taken care of at a local RV dealership that sells Keystone TT (but not the Outback line) will do the repair.
> 
> Sound good so far? When the trailer was delivered on Sunday, there was a mix up with the paperwork and I was to be sent new paperwork to sign and return. Missing from my package was the TT license plate. I now have a call into Meyers RV (Camping World) to get things rolling.
> 
> ...


Is this the Meyers RV (Camping World) in Syracuse NY. If it were me I would use the duck tape then use goof off to remove the residue. James


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## jetjane (Feb 8, 2007)

Hmmm.......so Keystone called you to tell you that they screwed up the window install and sent it out as is instead of correcting the problem at the factory? Then, they tell you to use some duct tape on it until it gets fixed because it might leak, even though the tape itself may cause some damage? So did it rain when it was being shipped out unprotected and now has water damage?? Am I missing something??? If it were me, I'd have to think twice about accepting this trailer at all.


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## prevish gang (Mar 19, 2006)

Under NOOOOOOO circumstances should you accept this trailer. This is a factory defect and there is no way in Hades (trying to be nice) that you should be compelled to buy a factory defect. They are only telling you about it so that they can get by with it. Think about it. It's November. Can you even camp with it until spring??? Why make payments on something you can't use. You need to call them back and tell them that they need to build you one that is worth the money you are paying. If they want to sell a reject, then mark it down to reject price. Tell them that it is not your job to fix what they screwed up, but it is theirs to deliver what they promised. If it were something like a piece of moulding separating from the wall, well then okay, but this is a whole WINDOW!! No way, no how.

If you don't believe me on this, contact another member, "Ghosty". He is an attorney and while he is not licensed in your state, he can tell you what your rights are.

Gosh, just thinking about them wanting to pull this crap (still trying to be nice) on you makes ME mad!

Darlene


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Wow thats a bummer. It was nice of them to contact you and not let you go on with it.

I don't feel the urge to tell you what you need to do outside of what you asking and since your only asking how to cover the window and not our opinions on how handle your personal business, ill stick to that.

Maybe only push down the top edge of the tape hard not the full 3", so it directs the water over the tape with less sticky residue. You could also stick a sheet of plastic on the tape and hang it over the window. Better-yet, maybe cut a trash bag and tape it all around. I cant imagine that duct tape would do any long term damage if handled carefully but the painters tape idea should work well too.

Im sure you gathering the details of the long-term effects of this if any and can make a sensible decision on how to proceed.

Good luck and keep us posted.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

jetjane said:


> Hmmm.......so Keystone called you to tell you that they screwed up the window install and sent it out as is instead of correcting the problem at the factory? Then, they tell you to use some duct tape on it until it gets fixed because it might leak, even though the tape itself may cause some damage? So did it rain when it was being shipped out unprotected and now has water damage?? Am I missing something??? If it were me, I'd have to think twice about accepting this trailer at all.


Agree 100%. I'd walk away and get another one. Why rush it and get something that wasn't built right to start with?


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Funny, they waited until after I took delivery of the unit and then called 3 days later. The entire experience thus far has been a bit frustrating. I had to call yesterday to get the paperwork moving for my plates. Myers RV (Camping World) is in NY and I am sure they are not going to come back down, pick it up, and bring a new one.

I agree with the "how long has it been" since the trailer was shipped from the factory to the RV center to my house - and - I know for a fact that the Saturday it was supposed to be delivered it poured rain.

So whats the vote?


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

rdvholtwood said:


> Funny, they waited until after I took delivery of the unit and then called 3 days later. The entire experience thus far has been a bit frustrating. I had to call yesterday to get the paperwork moving for my plates. Myers RV (Camping World) is in NY and I am sure they are not going to come back down, pick it up, and bring a new one.
> 
> I agree with the "how long has it been" since the trailer was shipped from the factory to the RV center to my house - and - I know for a fact that the Saturday it was supposed to be delivered it poured rain.
> 
> So whats the vote?


If your now asking for our opinions on how to handle this overall situation ill offer mine. Id gaher up all the details that would bolster my defense in requesting a replacement. the fact that it was not built correctly, the duration of exposure to moisture, the troubles you have been through, etc. at this point, replacing it only really costs them the travel back and forth. maybe they (your delaer and keystone) can help you work with a local delaer to help ease the pain and get you a unit either quicker or with less cost to them shipping to NY then over to you.

I would not kick and screem and get boligerant. Some feel this is the way to handle things and its up to you how you want to proceed but I find little integrity in actions like that. You can be firm and bold but dont lose your integrity. Consistant and follow through - not empty threats.

I had a situation where our boat dealer took our $55k trade in, sold us our new boat, but never paid off our original loan. I was firm, consistant with what i said and followed through on my actions after giving fair warning and gathering the proper information. In this case, the gentleman is still sitting in jail and insurance has recouped our money. very short version of a LOOONG story.

Good luck!


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

In answer to your original question, blue painter's tape would work well, won't leave any residue.

Maybe I should have asked Dodge for a new truck after a fuel line broke







.

Mike


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## mikenkristipa (May 11, 2008)

Rick,

I tend to agree with the previous posts. I know the Keystone dealer down your way doesn't carry Outback's but Tom Schaeffer's an hour or so north of you does. I dealt with them direct from the start and they have been great with handling anything that has come along. I don't know how they will be as a third party. That, in my opinion, is Keystone's problem. You pruchased a brand new TT, I assume you are planning on keeping it for years to come, I would definatly look into getting them to replace. Who knows what other defects could come up with that "line".

They already admitted the mistake, now they need to do what is best for you in this situation. In my opinion, at this point you have options. If you let them fix it, you may not have those same options down the road.

Talk to you soon,

Mike


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

I think there is a big difference between replacing a fuel line and replacing a wall. Face it if the window was cut in the wrong place the right way to repair it would be to replace the wall and recut the hole.

I would call the people that I purchased the unit from and explain, very calmly and politely, that repairing the unit was not going to be acceptable to me, and that I would like a replacement unit. As for picking up and delivering, that is Keystones problem. The built the unit, it wasn't built correctly, and they knew it. They decided to deliver it and then call you....they can pick up the old one when they bring the new one to you.

Like someone else said, be pleasant, nice, and respectful with them at all times, BUT let them know that this unit isn't acceptable and they need to replace it.

Gary


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

Car manufacturers issue service bulletins all the time for known problems with the cars they build. And they don't tell the buyers/owners, but simply send the bulletin to the dealer, authorizing a specific repair IF the customer comes in with a related complaint (unless there is a safety issue, and then the manufacturer must issue a recall to correct the problem). And a lot of times, the dealers act dumb about the service bulletin, because the manufacturers don't pay as much as the dealer would normally charge us to fix a problem. But it is usually up to the owner of the defective car to first make the complaint, and then bring it in to the dealer for repairs.

I'd say that Keystone has shown much more integrity than most manufacturers by owning up to a mistake, without you complaining. In fact, I'd say that they went way beyond what is normal for the industry (especially considering the economic conditions we have right now). Granted - it's the right thing to do and the same thing that any of us would do if we sold a trailer privately, but we are not in the business of making money and paying dividends to stock-holders by manufacturing and selling travel trailers.

I'd give Keystone the opportunity to fix the problem and make it good as new, but make sure that you get assurances that any problems down the road that may have been spawned by the window defect will be taken care of at Keystone's expense, and at your convenience.

But maybe I'm too easy about these things. I know that I have made a few mistakes over the years, and like Keystone, have tried to make things right in the end. (I'm one that truly thinks the "Golden Rule" is not dead - especially when I see a business trying to practice it.)

Just my $.02.

Mike


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Sayonara said:


> Funny, they waited until after I took delivery of the unit and then called 3 days later. The entire experience thus far has been a bit frustrating. I had to call yesterday to get the paperwork moving for my plates. Myers RV (Camping World) is in NY and I am sure they are not going to come back down, pick it up, and bring a new one.
> 
> I agree with the "how long has it been" since the trailer was shipped from the factory to the RV center to my house - and - I know for a fact that the Saturday it was supposed to be delivered it poured rain.
> 
> So whats the vote?


If your now asking for our opinions on how to handle this overall situation ill offer mine. Id gaher up all the details that would bolster my defense in requesting a replacement. the fact that it was not built correctly, the duration of exposure to moisture, the troubles you have been through, etc. at this point, replacing it only really costs them the travel back and forth. maybe they (your delaer and keystone) can help you work with a local delaer to help ease the pain and get you a unit either quicker or with less cost to them shipping to NY then over to you.

I would not kick and screem and get boligerant. Some feel this is the way to handle things and its up to you how you want to proceed but I find little integrity in actions like that. You can be firm and bold but dont lose your integrity. Consistant and follow through - not empty threats.

I had a situation where our boat dealer took our $55k trade in, sold us our new boat, but never paid off our original loan. I was firm, consistant with what i said and followed through on my actions after giving fair warning and gathering the proper information. In this case, the gentleman is still sitting in jail and insurance has recouped our money. very short version of a LOOONG story.

Good luck!
[/quote]

I Agree............Direct and to the point is always the best way..........The dealer may want to get you a new one...........it may be in their best interest to replace it and not have the potential of issues over the next year or so.........

I personally, would check it out...No water damage.........I would probably let them fix it.........I do not know........but when i read this......my first Guess was that......the template used in the Factory was either new or changed and they discovered they had a whole "Run" that was off...........it doesn't mean ANY necessarily Leaked........or that yours leaked.............

I have a recall on a seat belt..........could have resulted in a loss of life.......I am letting them fix the recall and replace it..........they aren't giving me a new truck.........

Good Luck.............I am sure they will do what is right...............hopefully it is installed crooked.......but not leaking......and they can put it back in straight..and or get you a new one........


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

The trailer was purchased at a show & the RV center is located in Chruchville NY. I have already taken delivery of the unit. I called Keystone today and the told me that they guarantee 100% that there would be no damage to the trailer from this defect.

I asked them to back this claim up in writing and they said they would. I also asked them to provide transportation to an from the RV dealer (14mi) to have the issue fixed. They wanted to send some local fixers out and I refused.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Thanks for all your support and advice. I will definitely keep you all updated.

Rick


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

rdvholtwood said:


> The trailer was purchased at a show & the RV center is located in Chruchville NY. I have already taken delivery of the unit. I called Keystone today and the told me that they guarantee 100% that there would be no damage to the trailer from this defect.
> 
> I asked them to back this claim up in writing and they said they would. I also asked them to provide transportation to an from the RV dealer (14mi) to have the issue fixed. They wanted to send some local fixers out and I refused.
> 
> ...


So they are standing up thus far.......local fixers??? Were they from Camping world...........from Grumbine???? They should be able to take a window out and reinstall it.........on site...........that is what you would do with your home......


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

After rereading your first post, I have a question. Is the window in the proper location and just not installed properly? If the window is just not installed properly and there has been no damage do to water leaks, then I would have them replace the window and get it in writing that they are going to cover any damages that occur. If there is more to the repair than replacing the window (IE: the hole was cut in the wrong location and they have to replace/repair the wall) then I would ask for a new unit.

Gary


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Fire44 said:


> After rereading your first post, I have a question. Is the window in the proper location and just not installed properly? If the window is just not installed properly and there has been no damage do to water leaks, then I would have them replace the window and get it in writing that they are going to cover any damages that occur. If there is more to the repair than replacing the window (IE: the hole was cut in the wrong location and they have to replace/repair the wall) then I would ask for a new unit.
> 
> Gary


I have requested, in writing from Keystone, exactly what the issue is. At that point, I will be able to make a decision on how to proceed. All I know is that it was installed incorrectly and needs to be taken out and supported better.

We are experiencing heavy rain today - which will be a good test!

Rick


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

rdvholtwood said:


> We are experiencing heavy rain today - which will be a good test!
> 
> Rick


DID YOU GET IT COVERED ??


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Sayonara said:


> We are experiencing heavy rain today - which will be a good test!
> 
> Rick


DID YOU GET IT COVERED ??








[/quote]

No sir, can't get to it, broken foot. BTW - I really don't think it makes a difference now. The unit was shipped defective from the factory - is that in Indiana? - to NY to Lancaster County. The day it was supposed to arrive it poured rain. Also, I am quite sure it rained prior to that.

Keystone is supposedly sending me in writing a 100% gurantee that it will not cause any damage.

We will see?


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

rdvholtwood said:


> We are experiencing heavy rain today - which will be a good test!
> 
> Rick


DID YOU GET IT COVERED ??








[/quote]

No sir, can't get to it, broken foot. BTW - I really don't think it makes a difference now. The unit was shipped defective from the factory - is that in Indiana? - to NY to Lancaster County. The day it was supposed to arrive it poured rain. Also, I am quite sure it rained prior to that.

Keystone is supposedly sending me in writing a 100% gurantee that it will not cause any damage.

We will see?
[/quote]

It would appear with all the rain it has seen.......it is not leaking in...at least not all the way.............

I would probably let them pull the window....and then at that point you can inspect whether any water got in.........if so pre-determine your course of action............if no water damage (hopefully)..............window installed correctly and centered.......No harm No foul.....and all is well.


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## AZthunderations (Aug 21, 2008)

Just to add my 2 cents worth. Let them fix it. If the fix is acceptable and no damage or irregularities show and you are happy and you have written assurances from Keystone, it's a done deal.
If the repair is noticable or not acceptable to you, then holler with all your might to get a new unit or major discount, whichever you choose. 
Keystone does not want an unhappy buyer on a unit they admit has a problem. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen that Keystone has no way of winning. I'd say you were in the drivers seat on this. Hang on to any and all paperwork, get names and phone numbers of contacts and document dates, just in case.
OH, and when it's all done............happy camping.


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

AZthunderations said:


> Just to add my 2 cents worth. Let them fix it. If the fix is acceptable and no damage or irregularities show and you are happy and you have written assurances from Keystone, it's a done deal.
> If the repair is noticable or not acceptable to you, then holler with all your might to get a new unit or major discount, whichever you choose.
> Keystone does not want an unhappy buyer on a unit they admit has a problem. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen that Keystone has no way of winning. I'd say you were in the drivers seat on this. Hang on to any and all paperwork, get names and phone numbers of contacts and document dates, just in case.
> OH, and when it's all done............happy camping.


I think thats the way we are going to go. Just as soon as this rain stops, I am going to get the DW to go out to the trailer and check for leaks.


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

I just got off the phone with Keystone and they are now backing out of their original position. I had asked them to put in writing that they would cover any future issues related to this issue with the window. Their reply was "no" Also, they refused to have it towed to the dealership to have it fixed.

I called the RV center who is handling the claim and they were told that their instructions were to "pull the window and recenter it" I am no window expert, but, that would mean there is a problem and also water could get down in their. Keystone gave me the impression that since they already received there. money, that it was now the dealerships problem.

When Keystone called back they said there was no hurry and that it could wait another month until I was out of my cast to get it fixed - thats not the impression I got when I received the call.

At the show, I was told repeatedly how Keystone stands behind their product. Apparently, in actuality, they don't.

Very Frustrating!


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

rdvholtwood said:


> I just got off the phone with Keystone and they are now backing out of their original position. I had asked them to put in writing that they would cover any future issues related to this issue with the window. Their reply was "no" Also, they refused to have it towed to the dealership to have it fixed.
> 
> I called the RV center who is handling the claim and they were told that their instructions were to "pull the window and recenter it" I am no window expert, but, that would mean there is a problem and also water could get down in their. Keystone gave me the impression that since they already received there. money, that it was now the dealerships problem.
> 
> ...


I am on my second keystone product and quite frankly haven't had an issue to get them involved in.........they were minor things .....but i took care of myself, as it was easier and ultimately cheaper.

I wouldn't get to frustrated yet.......easy for me to say as i am not you......meaning you have the item needing to be replaced and .........the fact that you are on crutches and are stuck with out the ability to thoroughly check it out yourself ......probably makes it worse.....it would for me!!

If i was closer and had some time on my hand.....i would check it out for you......but i am away every weekend until mid December......and most nights coaching basketball with my sons..........

Do you have anyone nearby that could inspect it for you?

The window is pretty Simple as far as it has a built in "water table" type channel to divert the water away. I bet if it is off center it is pushed one way or r the other and then they caulked the living day lights out of it!!!

I would say let them replace it........and you are better off having them replace it at your home than at their shop........because you can watch what they do and look at it after the window comes out and before the new one goes in........take some good pictures as well. I would also make sure you dictate your conversations with them and record them as they happen and date and time them...........i find you are better to lead the "Vendor" and let them put their foot in their own mouths as opposed to stating the obvious bluntly up front..........also if its not to late........start making all correspondence via email...........much better than a phone conversation.........then you could have them stating that that won't put anything in writing.......that in itself can be damning.....

Let them fix it and see what happens......document all along the way...i bet you will be good to go.


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

clarkely said:


> I just got off the phone with Keystone and they are now backing out of their original position. I had asked them to put in writing that they would cover any future issues related to this issue with the window. Their reply was "no" Also, they refused to have it towed to the dealership to have it fixed.
> 
> I called the RV center who is handling the claim and they were told that their instructions were to "pull the window and recenter it" I am no window expert, but, that would mean there is a problem and also water could get down in their. Keystone gave me the impression that since they already received there. money, that it was now the dealerships problem.
> 
> ...


I am on my second keystone product and quite frankly haven't had an issue to get them involved in.........they were minor things .....but i took care of myself, as it was easier and ultimately cheaper.

I wouldn't get to frustrated yet.......easy for me to say as i am not you......meaning you have the item needing to be replaced and .........the fact that you are on crutches and are stuck with out the ability to thoroughly check it out yourself ......probably makes it worse.....it would for me!!

If i was closer and had some time on my hand.....i would check it out for you......but i am away every weekend until mid December......and most nights coaching basketball with my sons..........

Do you have anyone nearby that could inspect it for you?

The window is pretty Simple as far as it has a built in "water table" type channel to divert the water away. I bet if it is off center it is pushed one way or r the other and then they caulked the living day lights out of it!!!

I would say let them replace it........and you are better off having them replace it at your home than at their shop........because you can watch what they do and look at it after the window comes out and before the new one goes in........take some good pictures as well. I would also make sure you dictate your conversations with them and record them as they happen and date and time them...........i find you are better to lead the "Vendor" and let them put their foot in their own mouths as opposed to stating the obvious bluntly up front..........also if its not to late........start making all correspondence via email...........much better than a phone conversation.........then you could have them stating that that won't put anything in writing.......that in itself can be damning.....

Let them fix it and see what happens......document all along the way...i bet you will be good to go.
[/quote]

Keystone flat out is not entertaining any option except wait until I am out of the cast. The gentleman, whose name I will not post, showed not interest in helping and more trying to now tell me that its ok and that it can wait.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Sorry you don't live closer, I'd be happy to tow it in for you.

I'm betting this isn't a big deal and can be fixed rather easily without too much work. Trailers are not that complex.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

rdvholtwood said:


> I just got off the phone with Keystone and they are now backing out of their original position. I had asked them to put in writing that they would cover any future issues related to this issue with the window. Their reply was "no" Also, they refused to have it towed to the dealership to have it fixed.
> 
> I called the RV center who is handling the claim and they were told that their instructions were to "pull the window and recenter it" I am no window expert, but, that would mean there is a problem and also water could get down in their. Keystone gave me the impression that since they already received there. money, that it was now the dealerships problem.
> 
> ...


I am on my second keystone product and quite frankly haven't had an issue to get them involved in.........they were minor things .....but i took care of myself, as it was easier and ultimately cheaper.

I wouldn't get to frustrated yet.......easy for me to say as i am not you......meaning you have the item needing to be replaced and .........the fact that you are on crutches and are stuck with out the ability to thoroughly check it out yourself ......probably makes it worse.....it would for me!!

If i was closer and had some time on my hand.....i would check it out for you......but i am away every weekend until mid December......and most nights coaching basketball with my sons..........

Do you have anyone nearby that could inspect it for you?

The window is pretty Simple as far as it has a built in "water table" type channel to divert the water away. I bet if it is off center it is pushed one way or r the other and then they caulked the living day lights out of it!!!

I would say let them replace it........and you are better off having them replace it at your home than at their shop........because you can watch what they do and look at it after the window comes out and before the new one goes in........take some good pictures as well. I would also make sure you dictate your conversations with them and record them as they happen and date and time them...........i find you are better to lead the "Vendor" and let them put their foot in their own mouths as opposed to stating the obvious bluntly up front..........also if its not to late........start making all correspondence via email...........much better than a phone conversation.........then you could have them stating that that won't put anything in writing.......that in itself can be damning.....

Let them fix it and see what happens......document all along the way...i bet you will be good to go.
[/quote]

Keystone flat out is not entertaining any option except wait until I am out of the cast. The gentleman, whose name I will not post, showed not interest in helping and more trying to now tell me that its ok and that it can wait.
[/quote]

Sounds to me..they are extremely confident that it is not a big deal........and that they want to make sure that you can see it to show you...........if they thought there was water getting in there............i would think they would be all over getting it fixed before it ends up costing them more...........especially given the fact that they sent you a letter stating they needed to repair it...............
I believe, and am hoping, that all will work out well and this will be all fixed....and water over the dam.

By the way i am a Glass is 1/2 full kind of guy................heck i feel if the media would stop reporting how bad things are in the economy.........things would at least flatten out and maybe get better..........i know people who can afford to buy ..........but aren't because they are afraid............which only makes it worse....


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## prevish gang (Mar 19, 2006)

This is the point where you contact the better business bureau and send Carbon copies of anything to an attorney or at least pretend you are. Folks tend to get nervous when they find that they may be in for a legal battle. Don't you think it's funny they waited until after delivery to tell you what was going on? Go with your gut on this one and protect yourself and your investment above all. Nice is one thing and you can be nice either way, but they put you in a position where if you are not nice, that is not your fault.

What did you expect when you ordered this trailer? You expected a trailer that did not require you to have to climb on top of it to protect it from the elements. This is a very basic expectation. If a window is not installed in the correct position, doesn't it throw off cabinet installation etc? I doubt if this will be the last trailer you will ever own. A problem with water leaks is sometimes they are not noticed for awhile and I would not like to think you had a seeping problem that would soften your floor over time. They are telling you they are not going to help you. Doesn't that tell you that you are screwed in a couple of years if a problem becomes apparent over time?

I am back to having a friend tow it to the dealership and turning it in and waiting for a new one. I doubt if you will get much use out of it before spring anyhow. I expect minor issues, but this does not appear to be that. The dealership that I work for returned a motor home that had an issue like this one and refused to deliver to the customer. Yours should have done the same or at least told you prior to delivery. I think things have been handled very unprofessionally, but that is just me. Whatever you decide is up to you, but I have never been the kind of person who feels that friends (not that we know each other, but we are linked by our ownership past or present) tell friends how they really feel and then give them the option to do what is best for themselves.

For you to stand up for yourself helps Keystone understand that they cannot sell substandard products and get away with it and helps us all in the end.

Darlene


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks - but - returning the trailer is not an option. I will take it to the RV center and get if fixed. I have been given another number to call keystone. I will express my concerns to them and let them know how I was treated. I don't think this gentleman represented the company as whole. If he did, we wouldn't all have keystone products!


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Well we finally reached the end of our road with this issue. Consequently, Keystone will fix the problem; however, will not work out some details regarding getting the TT to the RV dealership. So, what have I taken away from this?

Keystone's view:

- Keystone contacted me promptly and identified an issue
- Keystone guaranteed 100% that no inner wall damage would result (would not put that in writing)
- Keystone told me to get it to the dealership whenever I could.

*Please note* - According to Keystone, they were aware of this defect, prior to me taking delivery

Am I satisfied with the outcome,* no*, but, I guess its really not their problem that I am in a cast and can't get the vehicle to the dealership.

At this point, I have found a way to get it there - Mike (mikenkristipa) has offered to come and help me get it to the dealership.

Again, Thank you for your support!

Rick


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

rdvholtwood said:


> Well we finally reached the end of our road with this issue. Consequently, Keystone will fix the problem; however, will not work out some details regarding getting the TT to the RV dealership. So, what have I take away from this?
> 
> Keystone's view:
> 
> ...


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Some great news!

I was contacted by *Camping World (Meyers RV)* and had discussed with them my conversations with Keystone regarding my situation. They were quite shocked at Keystone's response at me asking if they could tow the TT to the dealer because of my broken foot.

With that said, Camping World - _stepped up_ - and said that they would make arrangements to get the trailer to the local RV dealership. Shortly after I spoke to the regional manager at CW, I received a call from a driver for Grumbines RV indicating that he would be by on Sunday to pick the trailer up. CW also told me that if the local dealer could not tow it back, then they would get it back to my house.

Needless to say, I was quite *surprised *at the outcome and wanted to make sure credit was given where it was due.

*Thank You Camping World in Churchville NY!!! for providing excellent customer service!!*


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## mikenkristipa (May 11, 2008)

That's great Rick!!!! Good to hear that they stepped up. Customer service isn't dead after all.

Talk to you soon,
Mike


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Good News! Hope it all turns out well! thats a big help though having them come get it for you. Make sure you get some paperwork as to why it was in for repair. good to have that documentation should you ever need it later and everyone seems to have amnesia as to what was done to it.


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

LOL - Keystone was supposed to send me a note on what the issue was, but, never did.


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## Fanatical1 (Jan 9, 2006)

Great news Rick!









Now you can spend the winter planning your mods and camping adventures for next year!









Mark


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## prevish gang (Mar 19, 2006)

rdvholtwood said:


> LOL - Keystone was supposed to send me a note on what the issue was, but, never did.


Imagine that?

I am so happy that the dealer is stepping up but I have to say after watching this thread and a few others, I will be looking at other manufacturers besides Keystone just because of the fact that they seem to put more effort into doing nothing than they do to keep a loyal customer. Kudos to the RV dealer. I will keep this in mind for the future.

Darlene


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

prevish gang said:


> LOL - Keystone was supposed to send me a note on what the issue was, but, never did.


Imagine that?

I am so happy that the dealer is stepping up but I have to say after watching this thread and a few others, I will be looking at other manufacturers besides Keystone just because of the fact that they seem to put more effort into doing nothing than they do to keep a loyal customer. Kudos to the RV dealer. I will keep this in mind for the future.

Darlene
[/quote]
Keystone could have said nothing at all. Like many manufacturers. Instead they personally contacted the owner and asked to fix it. Worse has definately happened with "better" manufacturers.


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Sayonara said:


> LOL - Keystone was supposed to send me a note on what the issue was, but, never did.


Imagine that?

I am so happy that the dealer is stepping up but I have to say after watching this thread and a few others, I will be looking at other manufacturers besides Keystone just because of the fact that they seem to put more effort into doing nothing than they do to keep a loyal customer. Kudos to the RV dealer. I will keep this in mind for the future.

Darlene
[/quote]
Keystone could have said nothing at all. Like many manufacturers. Instead they personally contacted the owner and asked to fix it. Worse has definately happened with "better" manufacturers.
[/quote]

Agreed, I think that we can't rate an entire company on just a few people. The bottom line is that the problem is getting fixed!


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## 3LEES (Feb 18, 2006)

camping479 said:


> In answer to your original question, blue painter's tape would work well, won't leave any residue.
> 
> Maybe I should have asked Dodge for a new truck after a fuel line broke
> 
> ...


Blue painters tape will work well...ONLY if you take it off fairly quickly. The sun can bake the tape on to the point of making it very tough to get off, just like normal masking tape.

Ask me how I know this?? Personal experience at work. It took lots of Goof Off and a ton of elbow grease to get the tape off a drip edge on a house.

Dan


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

prevish gang said:


> LOL - Keystone was supposed to send me a note on what the issue was, but, never did.


Imagine that?

I am so happy that the dealer is stepping up but I have to say after watching this thread and a few others, I will be looking at other manufacturers besides Keystone just because of the fact that they seem to put more effort into doing nothing than they do to keep a loyal customer. Kudos to the RV dealer. I will keep this in mind for the future.

Darlene
[/quote]

The Bad ones & Marginal ones............well they seem to be going out of business........Keystone like any Large company will have some issues.........but i believe they are one of the better ones............left


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

3LEES said:


> In answer to your original question, blue painter's tape would work well, won't leave any residue.
> 
> Maybe I should have asked Dodge for a new truck after a fuel line broke
> 
> ...


Blue painters tape will work well...ONLY if you take it off fairly quickly. The sun can bake the tape on to the point of making it very tough to get off, just like normal masking tape.

Ask me how I know this?? Personal experience at work. It took lots of Goof Off and a ton of elbow grease to get the tape off a drip edge on a house.

Dan
[/quote]

I have not really covered the window as I did not want to put any tape on the trailer. Keystone had actually recommended duct tape!

The good news is that I am able to get the trailer over to get it fixed - and I have asked the RV center when they have the window out to check down between the trailer for any damage. If there is, then the trailer is still within warranty!


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Today our *250RS* was picked up and towed to *Gayle Kline's RV* in Mountville, PA, which is about 15 miles from our house to have our kitchen window fixed!









The gentleman who came to pick our TT was from *Grumbines RV* in Harrisburg, PA - Mr Ron Taylor - was very nice. Once he arrived at the RV dealer, Ron called me to let me know he made it ok









I asked Gayle Kline's RV to take an _extra_ look down between the laminate (best they could) to see if any water had seeped in. Also, while the TT is in, I asked them to put *Maxaair *vents on all the vents...


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Great plan! good luck and keep us posted.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

rdvholtwood said:


> Today our *250RS* was picked up and towed to *Gayle Kline's RV* in Mountville, PA, which is about 15 miles from our house to have our kitchen window fixed!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Smart Move on having the "fixing" Dealer Sell & Install you the Vents....................they will have a "Positive" Attitude on doing warranty work on a unit they did not sell..............as they now had the oppurtunity to sell something while it was in.

Great to see it all working out so well...........


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

clarkely said:


> Today our *250RS* was picked up and towed to *Gayle Kline's RV* in Mountville, PA, which is about 15 miles from our house to have our kitchen window fixed!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Smart Move on having the "fixing" Dealer Sell & Install you the Vents....................they will have a "Positive" Attitude on doing warranty work on a unit they did not sell..............as they now had the oppurtunity to sell something while it was in.

Great to see it all working out so well...........
[/quote]

....We have dealt with them plenty of times before with our pop-up. They have a great service and great parts store...along with a large inventory. Too bad they don't sell the outbacks as I think they would go well out here in amish country!!


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

The trailer arrived back from the RV dealer today - Gayle Kline - that performed the recall work. Everything looks GREAT and where it appeared the window was caulked is no longer visible. They did a great job!

We had 2 Maxaair II vents  installed. They seem to be an upgrade from the original - they have hinges to open for cleaning and it seems like they may provide more ventilation..

I will try to post some pictures as soon as I can!


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

CONGRATS !! You will really like having the vent covers!


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

I a glad everything worked out for you and your trailer. Maxx Airs are a great addition, you will love them.

Thor


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## jetjane (Feb 8, 2007)

Good to hear it all worked out for you in the end. I assume they didn't see any signs of water damage??


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

That's great news Rick!
You're going to love having those new vents


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

jetjane said:


> Good to hear it all worked out for you in the end. I assume they *didn't see any signs of water damage??*


When the trailer was in the shop, I had asked service to take an extra look between the laminate when they had the window out. I was told that they did not see any further damage. Before the trailer had left, I had noticed on the left upper corner some extra caulk. However, today, when I looked at it - there was no caulk and it looked fine!


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