# Living Witha Diesel



## OutbackPM (Sep 14, 2005)

I am thinking of upgrading to a 2500 diesel. Probably the Duramax.

I am not sure how practical they are for every day use. I only need to go 7 miles to work and back and I have to park oustide the garage (definitely with a crew cab). How have they performed here for anyone who has one?

Is winter starting a problem? Is the block heater essential to use?

There are other forums on these trucks but you get into too much turf wars to get any real practical answers.


----------



## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Now THIS will start a healthy debate!









I'll kick things off by weighing in on the 'Stick with a gas burner' side. Mind you, I have nothing against the diesels (other than that they are loud, smelly, require too much 'special attention', an astronomical premium in price and you could buy a second home for what the fuel costs), If you have the need for all that power and torque, they can't be beat. If I were towing a big fifth wheel I would get one in a heartbeat.

But the question here is 'Living with a Diesel', and that includes use as a daily driver. In that light - and for the reasons mentioned above - I just don't see the point. They really have little positive to offer in the role of a daily driver or as a commuter vehicle. Gas will be much easier to live with.

But again, if that is what you need to pull the RV, boat, etc. of your dreams, then a diesel is by far your best choice.









Happy Trails,
Doug


----------



## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Yes doug this will, they stink and are loud and I like that









The only concern I see with your situation is the 7 miles to work. Diesels love to be up to temp when shut down. Winter is not as much of a concern unless youâ€™re in 20 below all the time. I have the Cummins and itâ€™s rated to start at -40f without the block heater. Yes it runs rough until it warms up some but not bad, normally about 30 seconds is all it takes. You can get a high idle kit that will run the truck at 1200rpm to help warm-ups. Also if you have a standard trans you can use the engine brake, if equipped, to help speed up warm-ups as well. The diesel loves hwy and city driving but donâ€™t let them idle too long at low rpm, Iâ€™ll have to look it up but there is something about unburnt fuel weeping past the cylinder in the oil or something like that causing glazing. Mileage is unreal compared to a gas truck of the same size. Mileage will defiantly vary from make and model and even same model but I will say you should get at least 14mpg from just about any diesel and that number is very low. I average 18-20 unloaded and 14 pulling the 26rs through the mountains in Colorado. Long post short, get one youâ€™ll love it, just take the long way to work and home.

Bill.

Here are the websites for each make
Chevy http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi
Ford http://www.thedieselstop.com
Dodge http://dieseltruckresource.com


----------



## Devildog (Sep 8, 2005)

I went through this same debate back in September OutbackPM, and I was dead set on buying a diesel at the time. Long story short, I narrowed it down to the Nissan Titan and Ford F150, and only b/c of the incentives at the time, went with the F150 over the Titan.

That is what I was looking at, 95% of the time this was my everyday use truck, and I just did not need a diesel. If I ever get any bigger on TT, I may upgrade, but with the 25RSS, it does great!


----------



## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

Our F250 PSD only goes out the driveway when pulling the Outback, with rare exceptions. It's presently in hibernation until spring. And yes, it cost more dough up front and even though diesel costs more than gas, the better milage offsets the fuel cost difference. But man, how that truck pulls!! We bought it to pull this Outback and the fifth wheel that may be in our future and it sure doesn't disappoint.

The gasser truck guys might think they bought the right truck, but once you go diesel, you never go back.









Bill


----------



## Beerman (Nov 14, 2005)

I drove a F250 diesel while I was working on a ranch. I loved it! It pulled a trailer full of tractors anywhere I wanted to go. The ride was a bit rough, but what the hell, it's a truck. I just bought a new F150 supercrew, it will be my daily driver. I love the diesel, I would buy one. But only if I was towing everyday and I needed a 3/4 ton truck. The F150 drives vary nice compared to the F250 diesel. Consider your needs and wants and choose one that fits most of your needs.

P.S. I love the way a diesel sounds and smells.


----------



## MaeJae (May 12, 2005)

We traded ours last year(F250PSD Crew 4X4)









If I could have afforded another one at the time I would have got it in a second!

It was LOUD, SMELLY, and I gave it very special attention.

I like-it like-it like-it a lot!









I drove it every day to work (DH took it on Friday once in a while)(If I let him...LOL)
I work only 5mi from home. DH works 58mi from home(one way)

If you can afford it...go diesel!!! (right on, cookie9933)
MaeJae


----------



## Colorado Outbacker (Jun 6, 2005)

Hello

I went from an F150 extra cab to a diesel F350 crew cab last year. Love every single bit of it, not one regret, would do it again in a heart beat. It pulls fantastic. It carries all the toys (four wheeler), the four kids, the DW and the 100lb dog. Fuel milage is 16 and 12 pulling. I pull the mountains of Colorado with a 28rss like it isn't even there. I also drive 9 miles to work and back in it each shift. I do plug it in every night in the winter for easier starts and quicker warm up. It does not change my electric bill any at all that I can tell. Yes fuel prices are a bummer.

Take care, 
Happy Diesel owner


----------



## 1stTimeAround (Sep 22, 2004)

I LOVE THE SMELL OF DIESEL FUMES IN THE MORNING!!!









All I can say is, don't knock it til you try it! I was not even considering a diesel until my friend, who has had many gas and diesel 3/4 ton trucks convinced me to test drive one. That led to a test drive of all of them and eventually my decision to purchase the Dodge Ram 2500 with the Cummins High Output Turbo Diesel. This thing is awesome. I drive 14 miles, one way to work with 3 toll booth stops along the way, so never more than about 5-6 miles at a time. The truck does great. I plug it up every night just to ease the starts in the morning, but that is no big deal, the plug is right in the front, you don't even get dirty doing it!

I certainly understand your apprehension, however give them a shot. YOu will be surprised how fun they are to drive and the ride is not bad at all.

My only regret....I wish I could have waited about 16 months and gotten the Mega Cab.

Good luck and as others have said, once you go diesel you won't go back!

Jason


----------



## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Good comments so far...

In my case I drive about the same distance to work, once I drop the kids off at school. I end up using the truck as a daily driver most of the time partially because I really do enjoy driving it.

I would recommend a block heater if its cold, I don't have one and wish I did. I do however have a remote start. So I fire mine up and let it run and defrost before I head out - I love the remote start. It also has a cool down function I use after towing the USS Raptor.

Is it ideal? No I'd be better with a small car around down, however going out and buying one now isn't in the financial picture and I'd probably never recoup the investment needed.

The extra work for a diesel really isn't that much. Oil changes are more expensive, but needed less often. The power that the diesel offered is great. Even with a much heavier trailer now the F350 that I have tows better than any other truck I've had. You should have more power and greater towing capacity if you ever want to upgrade.

All that said, right now Diesel is running more expensive than gas. There are added costs of the diesel trucks, oil changes will run you about 3-4 times your average truck oil change. With your current trailer the diesel is probably overkill, though you can really never have to much truck.


----------



## Mtn.Mike (May 3, 2005)

I went from a 1/2 ton to my current truck because I got a great deal on the diesel. I then discovered that what I had wasn't really a "truck". It was an excellent vehicle to carry the necessary everyday things that people carry such as garbage and furniture for self and friends and was comfortable to travel in but I had no idea what a diesel could do until I purchased one. The truck I have now will do everything my old truck did and do it much better. It's more powerful, rides almost as good, doesn't stink, is quiet, carries much more weight and gets better mileage. I too pull a 26RS and the truck doesn't even breath hard while pulling the mountains here in N. Pa.
I think that 1/2 tons are fine but one is really limited in what they can pull. I will never go back to 1/2 ton or gasoline again in any truck.

Mike


----------



## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

One more diesel fan for you. Mine is a daily driver and that's part of the reason I bought it. I'm a Realtor and I average about 35,000 miles a year. It meets the business tax breaks and is one bad truck. I've never had a complaint using it to show property but I'll expect them once the lift kit goes on.







Very good all around truck that will pull or carry most anything you want and never grunt. I'm building a house and they set a pallet of tile in the back with the fork lift and it dropped about 4 inches. I wouldn't have even considered that with my old 1/2 ton gasser. Well worth the money and I'm hoping for a lot of miles before any major engine issues. I have friends with over 300k on theirs and still going strong. I'd stay away from engine mods until the warranty runs out though. Ford is tough on that they say. Bottom line is there is nothing like passing cars going up a 12% grade with the old TT in tow.


----------



## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Well, here goes my opinion......

I would love to get a new diesel.

I have a company vehicle that I drive everyday.

My present truck (TV) sits in the driveway for a month or so without being driven, unless I am picking up remodeling supplies, hunting, etc. (1998 Ram, 56,000 miles)

I just can't get myself over the $5k - $7k price difference that the diesel package adds. I know, before everyone jumps on me, that the diesel engine will outlast a gasser 3 to 1, but I tend to get a new vehicle before that difference would come around.

Would I WILL do next vehicle, is make sure it is a 3/4 ton. The difference in power over mine now won't be much, but the upgraded suspension, brakes, tranny, etc is what I am after.

I just personally don't think I could ever overcome that initial sticker shock and make that difference up in any kind of savings.









Now, with all that said, if I were to stumble onto a good USED diesel at a reasonable price, would I buy it?? Possibly. Here again, the time that it sits in my driveway may make for more maintenance issues than driving it everyday.

I guess I will just have to flip a coin.......









Steve


----------



## srlaws (Mar 14, 2005)

I'm going to chime in on the side of the diesel. I went from a Dodge 1500 to my current truck and have never regretted it. It actually rides better than my Dodge did and gets better fuel mileage. The only time I regret it is when I have to wash it by hand, haven't found any car washes I can run a dually through. But personally I'll never go back to a gas engine in a truck. Best of luck on your decision.

Steve


----------



## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

I drive my 2500 Dodge Ram deisel every day 26 miles one way and soon to be 50 miles one way. 
I don't know what Doug means when he mentioned "special attention needed" for a deisel. I've had mine for 6+ years and haven't had to give it any more special attention than I would a gaser, with the exception is you need to wait 5 - 20 seconds to start it (depending upon th etemperature) to allow the pre-heater to work. It's become so second nature for me that I find myself doing the same in my wife's car when I start it. I've only used my block heater once, and really didn't need to , just wanted to try it out. Deisels have come a long way, the new ones really don't smell or sound nearly as bad as the older ones.

As mentioned oil changes are more expensive, but I change mine at 5000 instead of 3000.

Mileage is better and somewhat offsets the difference in fuel price per gallon.

Beyond that you need to consider that deisels come in the larger 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, which means everything is bigger and beefier, so when it comes time to change tires, brakes, batteries (two of them), etc. etc., its more expensive.

If I were you I'd think about how long you intend to keep the vechicle. I justified mine in part because I intended to keep it 10 years or more, and wanted something that would haul and tow whatever I wanted. If you don't have that same criteria, stick with the gasser.

When I bought my deisel, I had a 28 foot Holiday Rambler TT. I didn't need the deisel to haul it. Four years later, when we were looking for new TTs to replace the old one, I was looking at a Jayco TT, hadn't even considered a 5th wheel. Then I saw the OUtback 28FRL-S 5th Wheel and fell in love. Had I not already had the truck to pull it, I'd be on the Jayco forum now instead of this one, so I think having the deisel paid for itself right there.

Good Luck, Regards, Glenn


----------



## Bubba-j (Feb 19, 2005)

Check to see if you can get one on loan for a few days. I love mine!

v/r
Bubba-J


----------



## jgerni (Nov 10, 2003)

Tough question...

Economically speaking...

If you drive 10K or less per year then go with a Chevy 8.1L or the Ford V10. Fuel economy wonâ€™t make any difference for that short of a commute.

If you drive 15k per year it should be a wash.

15K to 17K per year then I say go with the diesel truck only.

Over 20K per year then park the truck and get a small car for the commute

I've got a Chevy with the 8.1L and if I had a 20 mile or less round trip commute every day then I use it as a daily driver. Unfortunately I drive 90 miles round trip or 25K per year just commuting so I ended up getting a VW Jetta diesel for the commuting duties. Plus I still get the sweet smell of diesel in the morning.

If you just want a diesel or you plan on towing a 35ft 5vr then diesel is your answer regardless of the above.

If you do the Maintenance yourself then the cost with gas or diesel is negligible. If not then the diesel will be more expensive for sure.


----------



## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

OutbackPM,

I work at a GM dealership and we don't plug the diesels in that sit on our lot....I have started them on days that are down in the low teens (and they had been sitting for weeks without being started) without any problems. They will take alittle while to warm up but the block heater will help with that.

As for the diesel vrs gas debate in fuel savings.......

A gas truck getting 10 mpg @ 15000 miles per year will use 1500 gal of gas
1500 gals. @ $2.00 per gal. (Delaware price) = $3000 per year
A diesel truck getting 18 mpg @ 15000 miles per year will use 833 gal of diesel
833 gals @ $2.75 per gal. (Delaware price) = $2291 per year
The diesel will save you approx $709 per year
With the diesel engine adding approx $6000 to the cost of the truck the break even point for the diesel would be approx 8.4 years ($6000 divided by $709).

If you are planning to keep the truck for more that 9 years it would pay to get the diesel. If you are driving 30,000 miles or more than it would pay to get the diesel. If you just want a diesel then it would pay to get the diesel........

Of course there are other considerations that come into play...the diesel has a longer warranty, the diesel engine has a longer life exp., and the resale value would be greater on the diesel........

Bottom line, if YOU want a diesel then get one......

Gary


----------



## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

Fire44 said:


> OutbackPM,
> 
> Of course there are other considerations that come into play...the diesel has a longer warranty, the diesel engine has a longer life exp., and the resale value would be greater on the diesel........
> 
> ...


Gary,

You make a point that I also have recognized. The 5-6 grand $$ premium that you pay when you get a diesel engine isn't gone, it's invested. When you trade in or sell your diesel truck, you should expect to get a reasonable portion back.

Sure, your money is tied up, or your monthly payments are higher. But the capability







of any of the domestic diesel pickups makes it money well spent, IMHO.

Bill


----------



## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

OutbackPM said:


> I am thinking of upgrading to a 2500 diesel. Probably the Duramax.
> 
> I am not sure how practical they are for every day use. I only need to go 7 miles to work and back and I have to park oustide the garage (definitely with a crew cab). How have they performed here for anyone who has one?
> 
> ...












My commute is five miles one way. I try to mitigate that by plugging in the block heater any time it's below freezing (it's on a timer, runs four hours). Not really necessary for starting, but - when preheated, it starts a little quicker, doesn't clatter as much, and warms up much faster. I also use the winterfront, a ?$55.00? option on the Chev. It is in two pieces; I put it all on to test fit it but have since used only the top section. Goes on in a few seconds, off just as easily, and lets the critter warm up. Over 50*F it has to come off, or will overheat if you get caught in traffic. If you need cold weather high idle, it is programmable in the GM's through the Driver Information Center (DIC) - all thumb work on buttons on the steering wheel. 
All that said - I do my own oil changes using Rotella T 15W-40 and Delco filters. I got 5 gallons of oil at Costco for $26 something; the filters at Advance are $8.00. That's $21.00 per change, much cheaper than Iffy Lube. Noise is not a factor, it pulls like a goosed train in traffic... Dunno what top speed is, but at 90 it's still pulling hard. It rides a bit stiffer than my old half-ton, but not objectionable at all. One other I drove, though, was VERY hard riding. 
It's just a hoot to drive, and I love it!
Given druthers - I would have the Ford chassis, the Cummins engine, and the Allison transmission. You can get that combo in some motorhomes, but not, unfortunately, in a pickup.

I won't go back, fuel price or no fuel price.









YMMV - Slug


----------



## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Sluggo54 said:


> Given druthers - I would have the Ford chassis, the Cummins engine, and the Allison transmission.
> [snapback]66286[/snapback]​


That there is the cats meow.


----------



## OutbackPM (Sep 14, 2005)

2500Ram said:


> Sluggo54 said:
> 
> 
> > Given druthers - I would have the Ford chassis, the Cummins engine, and the Allison transmission.Â
> ...


Wow! Some good stuff to go on. Thanks alot for all your thoughtfull replies. I think I had most of it covered but was wondering if there was any special care needed. It seems only the plug in when below freezing is really different to a gas truck.

Historically if you look at the price of gas and diesel it is usually wthin 10-20 cents either way except for the last few months. Fundamentally it cost about the same to make so will run with the supply and demand from the refinery. My guess is it will be about the same towards the end of winter.

The ecconomics are a little debateable but if you throw in the fun factor of passing other vehcles up a steep grade while with trailer







then the deal is sealed. The DW likes the idea of a crew cab so its time to find the deals. 
I wonder if there is a Chevramford dealer out there!?

David


----------



## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

I wonder if there is a Chevramford dealer out there!?

David
[snapback]66376[/snapback]​[/quote]

David, when you find that guy or gal - lemme know!

There were other factors that figured in, too. I will not denigrate anyone else's choice. We're all free to be wrong -







Seriously, though, we did drive them all. For us, the Chev (or GMC) was our choice based on our preferences and peculiarities. We liked the relative quiet at cruising speed, easier entrance/exit due to being lower to the ground than some, the ride quality, the seats (cloth) that didn't look like old bicycle shorts, and my height-challenged DW's ability to see over the dash. Style-wise, the GM's are behind the curve, but I don't spend that much time standing there looking at it. 
I would have had the leather had I been able to find one. Thought I had it located in St Louis, but it was sold before I could claim it. As is, I am in Kansas City, and this one came from Hector, MN. - I insisted on a long bed (fifth wheel hauler), and my experience is that city dealers don't have them. They are much easier to find at smaller dealers out in the boonies.
Good luck in your search, and as you develop questions, fire away. There are plenty of representatives of all the makes here.

Slug


----------



## MGWorley (May 29, 2005)

I drive my F-250 diesel 50 mi. one way to work daily and love it. Average mileage hwy is 18-20 if I watch my foot on the gas. Towing average ranges 12-14 mpg.

I have the long bed which does present an issue if you like to park close to the doors at the malls. But for me I've always made a practice of parking out a bit for the extra exercise even before I got the truck.

As for towing ... I could not be more pleased. Fully loaded, fresh water, generator, etc., etc., have always had MORE than enough power.

I looked at all the diesels and ended up choosing the Ford based on tow capacity, interior and ride.


----------



## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

MGWorley said:


> I drive my F-250 diesel 50 mi. one way to work daily and love it. Average mileage hwy is 18-20 if I watch my foot on the gas. Towing average ranges 12-14 mpg.
> 
> I have the long bed which does present an issue if you like to park close to the doors at the malls. But for me I've always made a practice of parking out a bit for the extra exercise even before I got the truck.
> 
> ...


That's a interesting looking canoe rack you have there. Is it custom or readily available?


----------



## MGWorley (May 29, 2005)

Its a removable rack made by Yakima ...

http://www.yakima.com/home.html

It has worked really well.

Mike


----------



## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

MGWorley said:


> Its a removable rack made by Yakima ...
> 
> http://www.yakima.com/home.html
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. That's now on my gotta have list.


----------



## tonka (Feb 14, 2005)

I will give my 2 cents worth,
From what i have read those with a diesel love them and wouldnt go back to a gas and those still with a gasser cant see the diesel being worth the extra difference.








I love a diesel having a gasser for 25 years before moving to a diesel (dodge and now a ford) for the last 6 years i cant see any disavantage in the diesel. My dodge was sold for 2/3 of the cost after 5 years so it held its value better than i ever could do with a gasser.
nobody ever asked to buy my 1/2 ton gas trucks but several times have made offers on 3/4 and 1 ton diesels.
If you cant justify it go with a gas but those that get a diesel seem to stay with one. good luck in whatever you get,dave action


----------



## OutbackPM (Sep 14, 2005)

Well, I started the topic and got some good view points. On Monday I picked up a new Silverado crew cab in sliver birch with the Duramax diesel engine (LLY spec) so I will be able to answer my own question about living with it. First impressions are the tremendous power







it has and the turbo whine when you put your foot down.








It was hard to let go a perfectly good 1500 silverado go (traded) AND!!!! enough money for another new 1500 but the deal is done. The ecconomics will be what they will be. Now I will have to try it out on the camper so Martin Luther holiday in January looks like it will be a dry camping weekend.

Question, if I set the height of the hitch ball the same as the old truck will I need to do anything else for the set up? The suspension will be stiffer but the WD hitch more or less offsets the weight on the ball so I an assuming it will ride about the same height. Comments welcome.

Merry Chrismas and Happy new year to you all.

David


----------



## drose (Jul 26, 2005)

David,

Congrats on the new truck, wished I would have spent the extra $$$ for the duramax. I would say that you will probalby have to lower the hitch because the 2500 should sit several inches taller than your old 1500. I know I had to lower mine anyway.


----------



## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

OutbackPM said:


> Well, I started the topic and got some good view points. On Monday I picked up a new Silverado crew cab in sliver birch with the Duramax diesel engine (LLY spec) so I will be able to answer my own question about living with it. First impressions are the tremendous power
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congrats, David. You're gonna love it. Oh, and that whine isn't from the turbo. It's the guys driving gassers. Takes her a couple seconds to gather her skirts and get in stride, but isn't it fun once that variable nozzle gets all varied, or whatever it does, and the turbo spools up, and the tor-q pulls you back in the seat?
If you think you're hearing a whine now, wait til one day when you're easing up the mountain, outback in tow, in top gear, converter locked up, passing gas - er - gassers....

Slug


----------



## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

congrats on the new TV







That whine is what it's all about









As for setting up the WD hitch all you "should" have to do is get a drop hitch that was the same hight from the ground as the old one. We went from the Durango(made the trip home from the dealer only) to the Ram all I had to do was buy a new drop hitch.

Bill.


----------



## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

Welcome to the diesel club. They have their issues but when you hook up and go you can't beat them.


----------



## RVCarolina (Jul 31, 2004)

Congrats on the new diesel! Soon you'll wonder how you ever drove a truck without one







Ten years ago I would not have wanted one, but these newer ones are so much smoother, cleaner and quieter - and they will SCOOOT!
Enjoy!
Fred


----------

