# Newbie From Vermont



## betegreene (Aug 25, 2009)

Hi everyone, 
My family - Mom, Dad, and 3 boys (11,8,& 6) are planning a fairly long trip this summer and are very interested in a 21Rs.
8 weeks from Vermont out to Utah, Wyoming, Montana, Alberta, BC and back along the north shore of Lake Superior.
Probably close to 8000 miles.

Our TV is a 2003 GMC Silverado SLT 2500HD Crew Cab with the 6 litre gas engine, a 4.1 rear axle, trailer package and a 9210 GVWR.

I love the floorplan of both the 21Rs and the 25Rs, but just don't feel we need the extra room, weight, size, and cost of the 25.
I'd like to be able to get into some smaller campsites and think the extra length of the 25 might limit us sometimes.

Here are my main questions:
Is the kitchen usable without having to slide the rear bed out, or the side slider out? 
We'd like to stop for lunch when travelling without having extend the rear (or side sliders)

New or Used?
If I can get a 2007 or 2008 21Rs for 10,000, seems like a no-brainer to me, but what do I really need to check before buying used?

Sway bars/Sway Hitches
I've had a hard time finding a forum that has been helpful in determining the 'right' sway control systems to use.
I'm probably just being a klutz, if someone could point me in the right direction, I'd be grateful.

Thanks for all your postings, this site is one of the reasons I'm leaning strongly towards an Outback!


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

First off... Welcome to Outbackers.com!









You have come to the right place, and you are definitely asking the right questions! I can give you some brief insight, and I am sure others will be along soon to fill in the gaps!

It sounds like you have a great trip planned, and your truck should do a fine job pulling either the 21RS or 25RSS. These are both pretty light trailers and should be no problem for the 6.0L engine, even over the Rockies.

As far as the floor plans go, both are nice units. I can understand your concern about size in smaller campsites, but unless you are planning on doing a lot of backwoods 'dry' camping in unimproved sites, I don't think you are going to have any issues with either unit. If you get into some of the National Forests, the sites tend to be pretty short, and there will be some that will challenge the 25, but not a lot that just don't work at all. The flip side of the size coin is that you are looking at living in that trailer for a long time, and especially with three boys, it's going to get awfully small awfully fast. Even a couple of extra feet can make a difference. I would also recommend also looking at a 26RS. The bunk room is great for kids, and really allows you keep the clutter down in the rest of the trailer, and that in turn will make for a much more enjoyable trip. Size wise, the 26RS is only another 7" longer than the 25RSS, but the space gained will feel like 8 feet. Something to look at.

In both the trailers you mentioned, the kitchen is usable when everything is closed up, but not the dinette. The floor space in the 25RSS will be restricted with the side slide in, but really is not a problem as long as two people are not trying to pass each other.

New vs. used is a valid question. There are a lot of fine used units available, but you really want to look them over with a fine tooth comb. For that matter, you should do the same with a new unit, but especially with a used unit. You should be able to get a pretty good feel for a used unit by outward appearance. If the trailer is clean and looks well kept, it probably is, and that will help ease your fears. If the trailer looks like it has been ridden hard and put away wet, that is probably also the case, and if it were me I would probably run away... No matter how good the deal sounds. In either case - new or used - a thorough PDI (Pre-Delivery Inspection) is in order. There are lot's of great threads here on PDI's so I will not repeat everything here, but if you do a search for "PDI" you will find a lot.

Lots of choices when it comes to sway control and weight distribution hitches. The two most often used seem to be the Equal-i-zer and the Reese DualCam. Both will do a great job for you at a reasonable price. I like the Equal-i-zer for it's simplicity, but neither is all that difficult to use. Initial set-up takes some effort (not a lot), but once you get everything dialed in, or tuned, you will be good to go and can pretty much forget about it. There are also much more expensive systems out there that do a great job, but I think their primary value is in truck/trailer combinations that are otherwise marginal (yours is not). There are also cheaper "friction" sway controls out there, and frankly they don't work very well. So, for best bang for the buck go with Equal-i-zer or a Reese DualCam. For the best there is choose a Hensley Arrow or Pro-Pride ($$$). I'd forget about the rest. Again, lots of good information here on Outbackers regarding hitches.

I hope this helps a little. There are lot's of thing to consider, and we are always here to answer questions. So don't be shy, and we will look forward to seeing you out on the road!

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## betegreene (Aug 25, 2009)

Doug,

Thanks for the speedy, and very helpful reply.


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

I have a 2008 21RS and camp with my wife and two sons ages 6 and 10. With four of us, we find it a little tight at times. Due to the narrow aisle this unit has, it's pretty common that someone has to move out of the way before someone else can go where they want to. I would think that having the side slide on the 25RSS would really help even if you are just stopping for lunch. As for the kitchen, it is fully usable with the rear slide in. One thing to consider is that there is no place to sit in the 21RS with the rear slide in. Also, since the rear slide is not supposed to be loaded when in the "in" position, you can't have the kids hop up there to eat lunch. Once you have done it a couple times, it will take you about a minute to either extend or retract the rear slide.


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## We're HALL-in (Nov 4, 2007)

betegreene said:


> Hi everyone,
> My family - Mom, Dad, and 3 boys (11,8,& 6) are planning a fairly long trip this summer and are very interested in a 21Rs.
> 8 weeks from Vermont out to Utah, Wyoming, Montana, Alberta, BC and back along the north shore of Lake Superior.
> Probably close to 8000 miles.
> ...


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## We're HALL-in (Nov 4, 2007)

Hi Newbie! Welcome! I can speak from experience as we own a 25RSS, which we loved until my 17 year got to big for the bunks...but your children should fit very well. Everything that Doug mentioned in his reply to you makes perfect sense and he is correct, the dinette isn't usable with the slide in. We actually have a unit for sale...2008, and it is currently in Sanford, Maine. We upgraded this summer to a 5th wheel and want to sell the 25RSS...It still has 5 years of the 7 year tranferable bumper to bumper warranty on it...where the repairman comes to you! Yes, we bought the most expensive warranty so we didn't have to worry about it...really loved the unit but it didnt' fit us anymore. I had posted a sale ad on Outbackers...here is the content of the ad..and it already comes with Reese sway bars and Voyager brakes...
FOR SALE - barely 2 years old, excellent condition travel trailer...great inbetween size...Includes 5 years of 7 year transferrable bumper to bumper warranty (repair person comes to YOU!) and transferrable tire warranty. 2 axles (4 tires & full spare with cover), 2 popouts (queen bed and sofa), 2 bunk beds for the kids, 2 more beds, 2 entrance/exit doors, central A/C & heat, hot water heater & refrigerator/freezer can be run with gas or electric, 2 gas tanks, shower (w skylight) w tub & linen closet in bathroom, 3 ceiling vents, AM/FM/DC player in kitchen area with inside/outside speakers, TV antenna w booster, cable ready TV connections, awning in excellent condition, micro, oven/stove, stabilizer jacks, aux battery, gas/smoke detectors, outside gas stove & running water sink, just power washed, sealed underside. Voyager brakes, Reese sway & stabilizers, towed with 2004 Chevy Tahoe, 5.3L, 4X4. Love it, but we are upgrading to a 5th wheel. If you think you would be interested, please email me at [email protected] I have pix if you would like, but I am sure that you know what the inside looks like. Thanks, Sandie Hall (We're HALL-in')


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## kmsjs (Apr 14, 2008)

My family owns a 21RS, and we find that it is the perfect size for us. We have done many cross country trips, and the one that applies to you would be the one we took with my nephew. On that trip, there was my wife and myself, our two children (boy(9) and girl(7), and my nephew (15). We were in our trailer for about 2 weeks, including driving, overnighters, and sightseeing trips. It is tight with everyone in the trailer, but that only happens for meals and bedtime. Most of our time is spent out of the trailer. Even on raining days, everyone seems to find a quite place to curl up with a book, or around the dinette.

With the 21rs, or even the 25rs, there are only two bunks. This works for my family, and we have given the kids free range on decorating "thier room". This works for us because we only "borrow" a third kid about once a year. You would need to figure out what would work for you. My hephew was fine with rolling up his sleeping bag every day, to make room for everyone.

I looked at, and liked the 26rs for the bunk room, but for us, the two bunks work fine.

I have been in one comercial campground that we barely fit in with the 21rs, and some of the larger units won't fit in some of the National Forest campsites that we visit, but that could've been avoided with better planning on our part (we waited to long to make reservations).

I agree/disagree with PDX_Doug on hitches. The Hensley and ProPride are not fixes for marginal towing set-ups. They are actually the only true anti-sway device. The engineering design does not allow sway to happen at all. The Reese dual cam, and the equilizer are good, if not great hithches. The difference is that they control sway, while the ProPride and Hensley eliminate sway. Money is a big factor. The Hensley and ProPride are ~$1500, and the Eqilizer and Dual cam are ~$500. With that, make sure that you are using a good hitch with built in sway control. A friction sway device will not work on a trailer with the weight of the Outback.


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## dgilmore12 (Mar 31, 2008)

I would like to echo Doug's comments on the 26RS. We also have 3 kids and having the 4 bunks is a life saver. The extra room is great for the kids and we use the extra bunk for storage.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

dgilmore12 said:


> I would like to echo Doug's comments on the 26RS. We also have 3 kids and having the 4 bunks is a life saver. The extra room is great for the kids and we use the extra bunk for storage.


Welcome to the site!!!

Take a HARD look at the models with the Quad-Bunk house. I have 2 kids and they love it....with your situation with 3 kids, I would think it is almost a requirement.


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## W5CI (Apr 21, 2009)

We just got a new 210RS and it is too small and we have never used it and have no kids. go larger.


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## betegreene (Aug 25, 2009)

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the help.

Going to look at a 2006 28BKRS in New Hampshire, this model is not easy to find!


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Congrats on your future purchase







and welcome to the site.....

Couple of things to keep in mind.......... whether you are the type of person that is going to "want More" or forsee childrens friends coming........ then you might want to go with the bigger choice so you are not 2nd guessing your choice later..... I personally never have enough room for all the stuff we take....

If you are not this type of personality and you do not see a need for bigger....... then don't....... really the difference is marginal between the two, in the fact that the 25 will not inhibit you from going anywhere..... compared to the 21..

Also keep in mind the seasons you are camping in..... if only warm weather you are outside except for sleeping....... ..... rainy days are nice to have more room....

Decisions, Decisions..... Good Luck







only you know what is ultimately right for you









And then you can book the Acadia Rally and come join us


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

betegreene said:


> Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the help.
> 
> Going to look at a 2006 28BKRS in New Hampshire, this model is not easy to find!


Quick question....how tall are you?

I'm 5'10" and I felt a bit cramped in our 28RSS (with th queen slide out bed).	When you look at this trailer, really think about your sleep.

I'm sure some of the fella's that are >6' can talk more about this....

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


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## cerealcamper (May 25, 2009)

You have gotten a lot of great advice here. Just to comment on something others have not mentioned yet - storage space. Think hard about how much storage space you will need - especially with 5 people for an extended period of time. Also consider the recreational equipment like bikes, fishing rods and other "toys" you will need to find room for. It gets tight very quickly. Good luck finding the right camper for you.


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## GO WEST (May 25, 2009)

You really should look at several models in person. I felt limited to a max size of 25ft with my half ton Ford but you don't have that issue with a 3/4 ton TV.

Consider a new 2010 25RSS since it has a rear KING slide (power slide) where you sleep long ways instead of across. My family leans toward long so the KING would be our choice. The 25RSS 2010 model should also have a power awning, nice but limits you to not being able to adjust its height/angle. the 10 model also has a deeper side slide than earlier models, and the dinetee is in the slide instead of the couch. This dinette is bigger and longer, a u-shape will seat a couple more people than the traditional booths with two benches; you can also put down the dinette into a bed that is long/wide enough for a 6 footer comfortably. There is also a "bike door" on the outside to stow your bikes or ?? under the top bunk (bottom bunk folds up).

With as many people as you are taking and the length of your trip timewise you'd be happier with bigger than smaller. The slide-out on the side will make a huge difference, just go inside one to see.

My vote for any bunkhouse model too if you have kids. Four bunks are great but many of us do fine with two bunks, even that is nice and works very well. The 23 ft Outback (23RS, not the Kargaroo) has a double bed for the bottom bunk...so many choices and styles really.

I bought a used Equalizer hitch for $250 and had the dealer set it up for me when I bought a new camper. They will do it for free with the purchase (or should). It works very nicely and you can't go wrong with that brand.

Again, plan to spend some time looking and really spend some time inside each one. Pull out the beds/slides, etc and stretch out everywhere to compare each one against the other. The shopping will be fun and you will come to a conclusion that you feel good about. Keep an eye on this forum and that will held immensely too.

Any of the Outbacks you will enjoy on this trip you are planning. Most of us don't get to do trips that long and we are really envious of you going out West for two months, wow! Have fun!


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## betegreene (Aug 25, 2009)

Oregon_Camper said:


> Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the help.
> 
> Going to look at a 2006 28BKRS in New Hampshire, this model is not easy to find!


Quick question....how tall are you?

I'm 5'10" and I felt a bit cramped in our 28RSS (with th queen slide out bed).	When you look at this trailer, really think about your sleep.

I'm sure some of the fella's that are >6' can talk more about this....

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view









[/quote]

Thanks for the tip,luckily, I'm all of 5'9" when I'm wearing my hockey skates!
We'll be testing all the beds, slides, storage, and going over a PDI when we look at any of the options.


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

I am also 5'9" and don't really have any problems with the sideways queen slide bed in our 21RS. If I was any taller I think it would be an issue.


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

betegreene said:


> Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the help.
> 
> Going to look at a 2006 28BKRS in New Hampshire, this model is not easy to find!


now you are on the right track! Good luck!


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## russlg (Jul 21, 2008)

I'll just add my two cents... Last year I was hell bent on a 21RS, I stumbled across a 25RSS that was a steal so I compromised and bought it. I am sooo glad I got the 25RSS over the 21RS. It tows very easy and is a breeze to back up and park. It is the same length as my tow vehicle and has room if the kid brings a friend. We love it!!


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