# Does Keystone Have A Little Something New For Us?



## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

I just stumbled across this, and thought you all would be interested (I don't know why?







):










The following text accompanied the photo:

_"Keystone RV Co. has raised the roof - literally - with a "slideup" soft-sided extension that creates a 6-foot, 4-inch second-story loft in a 30-foot Outback side-loading sport utility travel trailer (SURV). The loft, raised into place by an electric lift system, has windows on all four sides, a permanent stairway leading from the garage and is equipped with fold-down sofas, U-shaped lounges and LCD TVs. The Elkhart, Ind.-based Thor Industries Inc. subsidiary will debut the Outback Loft during a special showing at 9:30 a.m. Tuesday, Nov. 27, at the 45th Annual National RV Trade Show that runs through Thursday at the Kentucky Exposition Center in Louisville, Ky."_

Interesting...

Happy Trails,
Doug

Note: This was NOT from any official source.


----------



## shaela21 (Aug 16, 2005)

Wow, is that ever cool looking. Have to really watch the tree branches when popping up though. And a permanent stairway to it??? Hmmm. Wouldn't mind seeing the inside of this one. Having one, well, that is another story.


----------



## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Why is the door on the street side???


----------



## OregonCampin (Mar 9, 2007)

Nathan said:


> Why is the door on the street side???


I read an article awhile back on the dark side







about a lot of makers adding second doors to the other side of the trailer - they noted fire safety as one of the main reasons.


----------



## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

OREGONCAMPIN said:


> Why is the door on the street side???


I read an article awhile back on the dark side







about a lot of makers adding second doors to the other side of the trailer - they noted fire safety as one of the main reasons.
[/quote]

We have some friends that have about a 10-12 year old TT that has a street side door off the front bedroom (don't remember the brand). I always thought it was odd, but they liked it during setup.

Happy Trails,
Doug


----------



## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

There's also no rear-slide ....which likely means the interior could be tighter than the current 28' non-Sydneys. It sounds like maybe they moved the couch area (and maybe 'dinette







) up into the loft. I like our Roo layout......I REALLY like it!! This "hard-sided-pop-up" sure looks interesting....and kudos to Keystone for innovation....but I sure am glad we got ours when we did!

Anyone in Louisville who can get/has been to that show?


----------



## battalionchief3 (Jun 27, 2006)

Great more stairs....how about an elevator. Not sure what I would do with that up their. Im sure you could get a ncie veiw up their though.


----------



## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

You know.....if you'd camo that trashy looking thing it make a great duck blind...... Did I say that out loud?


----------



## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

OREGONCAMPIN said:


> Why is the door on the street side???


I read an article awhile back on the dark side







about a lot of makers adding second doors to the other side of the trailer - they noted fire safety as one of the main reasons.[/quote]
We have 2 doors in the ROO (plus the garage door) and had 2 doors in the 25rss....but both are/were on the same side. I could see the added convenience of being able to come/go from either side rather than having to waqlk around. But even so - YEEEEESH - a street-side door?







Its never been done that way!







That's just not right!







HEATHENS!!!!!!!!


----------



## OregonCampin (Mar 9, 2007)

wolfwood said:


> Why is the door on the street side???


I read an article awhile back on the dark side







about a lot of makers adding second doors to the other side of the trailer - they noted fire safety as one of the main reasons.[/quote]
We have 2 doors in the ROO (plus the garage door) and had 2 doors in the 25rss....but both are/were on the same side. I could see the added convenience of being able to come/go from either side rather than having to waqlk around. But even so - YEEEEESH - a street-side door?







Its never been done that way!







That's just not right!







HEATHENS!!!!!!!!








[/quote]

I know, I know - next thing you know they will be adding stairs and pop-up bedrooms to hard sided trailers!


----------



## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

Is it for the NASCAR fans? Or is it a widows watch. James


----------



## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

OREGONCAMPIN said:


> Why is the door on the street side???


I read an article awhile back on the dark side







about a lot of makers adding second doors to the other side of the trailer - they noted fire safety as one of the main reasons.[/quote]
We have 2 doors in the ROO (plus the garage door) and had 2 doors in the 25rss....but both are/were on the same side. I could see the added convenience of being able to come/go from either side rather than having to waqlk around. But even so - YEEEEESH - a street-side door?







Its never been done that way!







That's just not right!







HEATHENS!!!!!!!!








[/quote]

I know, I know - next thing you know they will be adding stairs and pop-up bedrooms to hard sided trailers!








[/quote]
*NEVER*! No one could really ever be _THAT_ brazen!!!!


----------



## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

GarethsDad said:


> Is it for the NASCAR fans? *Or is it a widows watch. *James


There are certainly those who could relate...









...and what a convenient way to find out if the PotLuck gathering has started yet!


----------



## mx33suprdav (Jul 2, 2006)

This would be perfect at the Motocross track. My wife would never have to leave the camper and could still watch me bust my a$$.


----------



## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

I thought it was a sauna room


----------



## Camping Fan (Dec 18, 2005)

Interesting! Would be curious to see the floor plan and some interior photos. Having the garage in the rear would help to decrease the tongue weight as compared to the front garage units.







Given the position of the side slide in front, I am wondering if there is a bedroom in front with a slide out desk/couch/bed. Or is that a dinette (or couch) slide-out and the rear garage is the only bedroom.







The "penthouse" lounging area is an interesting idea, an innovative way to increase interior living space without adding length to the trailer. Could come in handy on those rainy days. It could add another degree of difficulty in positioning the trailer on a wooded site though.


----------



## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

wolfwood said:


> Anyone in Louisville who can get/has been to that show?


The Louisville show is an industry trade show and us commoners off the street aren't allowed in.
(or I'd have been there)


----------



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Interesting concept...I'm guessing it would get really hot up there.


----------



## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

egregg57 said:


> *Is it for the NASCAR fans?* Or is it a widows watch. James


HEY !! now that you bring it up. add a railing, table, chairs, keg and striper pole







to the top of it and now your talking NASCAR!! Oops, I may have went a little overboard there.


----------



## outbackgeorgia (Jan 28, 2004)

Photoshop?


----------



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Sayonara said:


> *Is it for the NASCAR fans?* Or is it a widows watch. James


HEY !! now that you bring it up. add a railing, table, chairs, keg and striper pole







to the top of it and now your talking NASCAR!! *Oops, I may have went a little overboard there.*
[/quote]

Nah....now, had you posted some pictures...perhaps it might have been too far.


----------



## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Oregon_Camper said:


> *Is it for the NASCAR fans?* Or is it a widows watch. James


HEY !! now that you bring it up. add a railing, table, chairs, keg and striper pole







to the top of it and now your talking NASCAR!! *Oops, I may have went a little overboard there.*[/quote]
Nah....now, had you posted some pictures...perhaps it might have been too far.







[/quote]
It's all about perspective....US vs Amsterdam...hmmmmmmmmm


----------



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

wolfwood said:


> *Is it for the NASCAR fans?* Or is it a widows watch. James


HEY !! now that you bring it up. add a railing, table, chairs, keg and striper pole







to the top of it and now your talking NASCAR!! *Oops, I may have went a little overboard there.*[/quote]
Nah....now, had you posted some pictures...perhaps it might have been too far.







[/quote]
It's all about perspective....US vs Amsterdam...hmmmmmmmmm








[/quote]

..I see where you're going with that....Amsterdam until Sun...then off to Munich...London on Wed...Portland Oregon on Dec 8th. Whew...


----------



## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Oregon_Camper said:


> ..I see where you're going with that....Amsterdam until Sun...then off to Munich...London on Wed...Portland Oregon on Dec 8th. Whew...


Now you two completely lost me. i must be getting close to hibernation...


----------



## justinsnow0 (Feb 5, 2007)

I took a look at this a few weeks back

Sky Deck


----------



## campntn (Feb 20, 2005)

Well, I'm happy that Keystone has gotten creative with the design team! Wouldn't fit my needs at all, but it is innovative. Good job Keystone, for stepping outta the box.
Yea, we saw that Skydeck at a show, pretty cool if you are a race fan. 
Mark


----------



## 'Ohana (May 20, 2007)

Oregon_Camper said:


> *Is it for the NASCAR fans?* Or is it a widows watch. James


HEY !! now that you bring it up. add a railing, table, chairs, keg and striper pole







to the top of it and now your talking NASCAR!! *Oops, I may have went a little overboard there.*
[/quote]

Nah....now, had you posted some pictures...perhaps it might have been too far.








[/quote]

Overboard indeed, why the mear thought of having a room like that with those things makes me shudder








However if the railing could be replaced by a disco ball
















Ed


----------



## Coachlight RV Sales (Oct 8, 2004)

What your looking at is the New Loft by Outback. I just got back from the show today. The Loft is 27' weights 6800# and is a rear Kargoroo. It has a front U-Shaped Dinette, side sofa slide, rear cargo area with fold down bed just like the Kargoroo trailers. The door on the street side is in the cargo area. Up stairs is a L-Sofa with Air Bed and a LCD TV. This is a very interesting plan. The retail price is about $29,000

Ken
Coachlight RV Sales


----------



## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

Salem put out a couple models with a streetside door. One goes directly into a second 1/2 bathroom. It also had another door going into the second bedroom. They are in the larger models. Very handy if one is sitting around the campfire and just need to use the facilities...
We nearly bought this model, but liked the one with a huge front living area and windows.










I think the new "Loft" look is odd, but I'm glad they are always thinking of new things. Kinda looks like an airport control tower with the black window shades...


----------



## jetjane (Feb 8, 2007)

mons02035 said:


> I took a look at this a few weeks back
> 
> Sky Deck


Ugh.....who was the interior decorator on this one, my dead grandmother?! I think the sky deck would be cool for someone going to the races but I don't see a young person buying that once they step in the door and look around. Just my opinion of course.


----------



## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

The Loft concept is pretty cool. It sure beats the basement prototype I've been working on. I spent all last weekend digging a hole under my Outback but still couldn't get a couch down there. Don't even ask me about the stairs.


----------



## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

campmg said:


> The Loft concept is pretty cool. It sure beats the basement prototype I've been working on. I spent all last weekend digging a hole under my Outback but still couldn't get a couch down there. Don't even ask me about the stairs.










*ROTFLMAO!!!*









We can always count on Mitch to bring clarity to the debate! Thanks bud... I needed that!









Happy Trails,
Doug


----------



## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

campmg said:


> The Loft concept is pretty cool. It sure beats the basement prototype I've been working on. I spent all last weekend digging a hole under my Outback but still couldn't get a couch down there. Don't even ask me about the stairs.


Thats a great idea but if i purchase a new TT with a below ground basement how will it effect my WD setup? It should be fine i suppose.


----------



## OregonCampin (Mar 9, 2007)

Sayonara said:


> The Loft concept is pretty cool. It sure beats the basement prototype I've been working on. I spent all last weekend digging a hole under my Outback but still couldn't get a couch down there. Don't even ask me about the stairs.


Thats a great idea but if i purchase a new TT with a below ground basement how will it effect my WD setup? It should be fine i suppose.








[/quote]

The only downfall I could see to the below ground basement is how to keep the stairs from dragging on the ground while traveling. That and I am not sure what the campgrounds would think putting that big of hole in the ground....


----------



## D1Boz (Oct 18, 2007)

Thing looks like an Airport Tower.







Be cool to see though even though I don't think I would be interested. lol


----------



## kmcfetters (May 7, 2005)

....do they make it in camo? Nice deer blind!


----------



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

PDX_Doug said:


> I just stumbled across this, and thought you all would be interested (I don't know why?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So if it weighs 6800 from the manufacturer, that is really about 72-7300, then add 800lbs for bikes, another 400lbs for liquids. It would be in the mid 8000lb range.. At 15% tongue weight, youd be at 1200 lbs.

That would pretty much need a 3/4 to pull it....

Wonder if Keystone will push this model as 1/2 ton towable....

I bet they do!

I kinda like it..... Something different!

Carey


----------



## SmkSignals (May 2, 2005)

Looks fairly large for a double axle also ...


----------



## malibutay (Sep 5, 2007)

Colorado~DirtBik... , you have some heavy bikes! must be dirtbikes right???

AirStream used to have a MH that had a skydeck and i thought that was pretty cool so this i think will hit it big. More space is the name of the game these days. I my self dont spend that much time in the tt but anything that keeps the kids occupied is good i guess.


----------



## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

AirStream is owner by Thor the same people that bring you the Keystone line. http://www.rvtraderonline.com/find/listing...%20390-81238122 .If we could onlt get Gilligan transferred over there. James


----------



## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Coachlight RV Sales said:


> What your looking at is the New Loft by Outback. I just got back from the show today. The Loft is 27' weights 6800# and is a rear Kargoroo. It has a front U-Shaped Dinette, side sofa slide, rear cargo area with fold down bed just like the Kargoroo trailers. The door on the street side is in the cargo area. Up stairs is a L-Sofa with Air Bed and a LCD TV. This is a very interesting plan. The retail price is about $29,000
> 
> Ken
> Coachlight RV Sales


Interesting . Soooo....how does the "New Loft" compare to the "Skydeck" shown in that other link (which, btw, is circa 2003 / by Citation / 32' / $52k)


----------



## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

PDX_Doug said:


> The Loft concept is pretty cool. It sure beats the basement prototype I've been working on. I spent all last weekend digging a hole under my Outback but still couldn't get a couch down there. Don't even ask me about the stairs.










*ROTFLMAO!!!*









We can always count on Mitch to bring clarity to the debate! Thanks bud... I needed that!









Happy Trails,
Doug[/quote]

x2 Mitch. Thanks!

Doug, I guess when you live in Arizona, one finds shade where ever and and however one can ...


----------



## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

OREGONCAMPIN said:


> The Loft concept is pretty cool. It sure beats the basement prototype I've been working on. I spent all last weekend digging a hole under my Outback but still couldn't get a couch down there. Don't even ask me about the stairs.


Thats a great idea but if i purchase a new TT with a below ground basement how will it effect my WD setup? It should be fine i suppose.








[/quote]

The only downfall I could see to the below ground basement is how to keep the stairs from dragging on the ground while traveling. That and I am not sure what the campgrounds would think putting that big of hole in the ground....








[/quote]

Axle flip


----------



## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

campmg said:


> The Loft concept is pretty cool. It sure beats the basement prototype I've been working on. I spent all last weekend digging a hole under my Outback but still couldn't get a couch down there. Don't even ask me about the stairs.


Thats a great idea but if i purchase a new TT with a below ground basement how will it effect my WD setup? It should be fine i suppose.








[/quote]

The only downfall I could see to the below ground basement is how to keep the stairs from dragging on the ground while traveling. That and I am not sure what the campgrounds would think putting that big of hole in the ground....








[/quote]

Axle flip








[/quote]
...with the newly designed "Slide Down". Rig up a pully system (Atwood Electric Stair Jack???) .... could even make the stairs to the loft into "Extension Stairs" so the pieces/parts store together when traveling. Then you could smoothly travel, basement to loft, stopping on the main floor to refill your adult beverage before continuing your climb or descent. Mitch - you may be onto something here!


----------



## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

campmg said:


> The Loft concept is pretty cool. It sure beats the basement prototype I've been working on. I spent all last weekend digging a hole under my Outback but still couldn't get a couch down there. Don't even ask me about the stairs.


Thats a great idea but if i purchase a new TT with a below ground basement how will it effect my WD setup? It should be fine i suppose.








[/quote]

The only downfall I could see to the below ground basement is how to keep the stairs from dragging on the ground while traveling. That and I am not sure what the campgrounds would think putting that big of hole in the ground....








[/quote]

Axle flip








[/quote]
I like your way of thinking, Mitch. But man! That basements going to play heck with your fuel mileage!
(I know... I know... A diesel wouldn't even know it was back there!







)

Happy Trails,
Doug


----------



## 3LEES (Feb 18, 2006)

Something no one has mentioned yet is the "tower" sides are the same as the sides in a hybrid TT. WE ALMOST bought a hybrid (Kodiak 23TT). However, the good Lord was looking out for us.

We attended a RV show in January in Florida. Cool day, with winds about 30 mph. Those tent ends were dancing so bad the center supports would not stay up. And VERY noisy!! No way I could have slept in that tent end with that wind.

Now imagine that tower in a wind. You'd be forced into retracting the tower, and moving all the "stuff" you have set up in there to your remaining living space.

Now your 30foot+ camper has the space of a 21RS plus all the "stuff" from the tower end. Sorta like sleeping in a broom closet...









IMHO, Keystone gets an "A" for creativity, but a D- for implementation.


----------



## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

All good points, Dan. But I will wait to see one in person before passing final judgement on implementation. I agree, it appears the materials are the same as the hybrids, but the design is significantly different. On this design, it looks like they have the potential to really tension those sides, to a degree not possible on the typical hybrid flip-outs. In reality, that thing may be tighter than a drum (which may cause it's own issues!).

I sure hope they get it out to the winter RV shows!

Happy Trails,
Doug


----------



## OregonCampin (Mar 9, 2007)

3LEES said:


> Something no one has mentioned yet is the "tower" sides are the same as the sides in a hybrid TT. WE ALMOST bought a hybrid (Kodiak 23TT). However, the good Lord was looking out for us.
> 
> We attended a RV show in January in Florida. Cool day, with winds about 30 mph. Those tent ends were dancing so bad the center supports would not stay up. And VERY noisy!! No way I could have slept in that tent end with that wind.
> 
> ...


Having spent Thanksgiving 2006 at the Oregon coast in a pop-up with a storm blowing in at 60+ mpg, I would have to agree about the tenting - this is why we have an Outback now.... there is no sleeping and I am telling you what - there is not much scarier than watching a pop-up dance in the wind - we honestly thought we were going to lose it before we could get it popped down.


----------



## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Ok,

So, now I've had time to let the concept digest a little. Now, let me qualify that I liked my pop up for the air flow (don't like using the A/C), the ease of towing, and the sound of rain on the tenting. We traded up for lunchbreaks/quick overnights, a full bathroom, and the creature comforts like a full size fridge with freezer. I think the ability to get great ventilation would be very nice. However, even closed, it looks TALL. That is drag and drag does not make it easier (or cheaper) to tow. I guess I'd call it a very neat concept, and one that I could be interested in if it worked to reduce towing length without significantly increasing height, but not likely in it's current design.


----------



## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

If this were a movie I would expect it to go straight to the discount DVD rack at the grocery store


----------



## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

California Jim said:


> If this were a movie I would expect it to go straight to the discount DVD rack at the grocery store


And I know who could make the perfect popcorn for all of us while we watch the DVD.


----------



## Rubrhammer (Nov 27, 2006)

I'm kind of curious about there being a street side entry door.
Bob


----------



## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Rubrhammer said:


> I'm kind of curious about there being a street side entry door.
> Bob


better cross ventilation...


----------



## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

Rubrhammer said:


> I'm kind of curious about there being a street side entry door.
> Bob


Quicker access to your neighbor making margaritas.


----------



## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

campmg said:


> I'm kind of curious about there being a street side entry door.
> Bob


Quicker access to your neighbor making margaritas.
[/quote]
oh, thats a good point....


----------



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

malibutay said:


> Colorado~DirtBik... , you have some heavy bikes! must be dirtbikes right???
> 
> AirStream used to have a MH that had a skydeck and i thought that was pretty cool so this i think will hit it big. More space is the name of the game these days. I my self dont spend that much time in the tt but anything that keeps the kids occupied is good i guess.


Not really. The bikes that we generally take with us are an Old '83 Yamaha TT600 which weighs 300lbs, A 2003 Kawi KDX 220 that has been plated, weight 245, and a 2004 Kawi KLX125 200lbs that has also been plated.

Plus we generally store the tool kit, 50lbs in the garage.

Two 6 volt bats, so add 50 lbs from stock.

So our garage weight is 795, plus 50lbs for a second battery, plus a tongue weight of 500 empty, and this equals between a 1100-1200 tongue weight depending on how much fresh, gray and black water we have.. Every time I have weighed the roo, we have been over 1100 tongue and between 7200-7500 gross weight on our lil 23 roo...

Sure glad I didnt get the 28 model, almost did.. I'd be in the mid 8000lbs with a 28krs.

Most all of the garage weight on Kargoroo's end up as tongue weight. I dont expect the front loading Kargoroo's to be around long.. Many, many people with 1/2 tons or suv's have bought them, cause Keystone pushes them as 1/2 ton towable.. They really are not! I expect Keystone will phase them out and go to rear loaders like everyone else does soon..

I bought our pickup before buying the trailer... Mistake!

The first time we loaded our roo for a trip, my lil dodge's suspension went all the way to the bumpstops. It dropped over 5 inches in the rear... It wasnt driveable, it was scary to even drive it around town! so i bought some timbrens to get me by.. The lil dodge could pull and stop it pretty easy with the hemi, so I am totally happy with the power, but the tongue weight kills this truck, same as it would any 1/2 ton or 1/2 ton suv.

Problem with all these new 1/2 tons is they tow lots compared to older 1/2 tons, but the payload is still all about the same as old.. So even if your new 1/2 ton can pull 10000lbs, it couldnt handle the trailer cause a trailers tongue that weighed 10000lbs would weigh 12-1500 lbs.. Even a 3/4 will sag pretty good with 12- 1500lb tongue weight, let alone a 1/2 ton... So all these commercials that advertise a 1/2 towing 10000lbs is all BS! If they have no tongue weight, they prolly can tow 10000lb..

I got to thinking of a way to fix this problem and thought of a hitch that would be self supporting.. Built it, and it worked like a champ, built another from a brainstorm idea to make it smaller.. It works so dang good I patented it.. Well, patent pending, have to wait about 3 years to get a number. I'm making a website for it, and getting everything ready to start my own biz.. Will have it up and running by spring. This hitch allows a person to tow a 10000lb trailer and have no tongue weight.. Its a fix for the problem everyone has.. Dont know if it will sell or not, but gonna try anyway..

My bikes weigh no more than anyone elses.. lol

Carey


----------



## malibutay (Sep 5, 2007)

I think another reason for the sag is that 1500s are built for comfort and the dodge has a great ride. but to get this they must lengthen the suspension and make it softer.

I have the a skyline 2810 (28RSDS) and it sagged when i hitched it up (775lb tounge wieght empty) so with propane battery and all the stuff in the front it probably closer to 1000. I also have no problem pulling this beast but the sag was to much. I added supersprings and it is alot better for sure.

Good luck with you venture I know it will help alot of people out!


----------



## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

malibutay said:


> I think another reason for the sag is that 1500s are built for comfort and the dodge has a great ride. but to get this they must lengthen the suspension and make it softer.
> 
> I have the a skyline 2810 (28RSDS) and it sagged when i hitched it up (775lb tounge wieght empty) so with propane battery and all the stuff in the front it probably closer to 1000. I also have no problem pulling this beast but the sag was to much. I added supersprings and it is alot better for sure.
> 
> Good luck with you venture I know it will help alot of people out!


Are we talking about not using a WDH?!?! I figure my 28 RSDS TW is 1000+ lbs with the propane full, dual batts and a full fresh water tank. Sure, the sag is scary if I don't hook up the WDH bars (I'd be afraid to move it that way), but with the 1200 lb bars, the truck is level. Heck, I could raise the rear if I wanted to set things up incorrectly!


----------



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I am just mad at Keystone.. I bought our Roo before finding this site.. Dealer swore and swore that a 1/2 ton could handle the roo no problem.. Keystone even backed that up in there brochures. He tried and tried to sell me the 28 footer.. I told him, that I'd be safer with the 23, as I was concerned with the weight. I ask'd them 3 times if loading stuff in the front would add hitch weight.. They kept telling me it wont be problem.. So I finally decided to sign on the dotted line..

We love our little camper, but the tongue weight was a huge surprise.. lol

When we bought our truck, I was going to buy a 23-25 footer and tow our bikes on our little bike trailer behind that.. Tons of people do that here in Colorado. Its legal to double tow with bumper pull campers here.. Still kinda wished we went that way.. Found this new Kargoroo, and we fell in love, as it would do it all and had a nice interior compared to other toy haulers.

I fully expect Keystone to continue telling people any Kargoroo is 1/2 towable.. Maybe this model will be a bit better tongue weight wise, but it will gross more, so people would still be in the same boat.

I'm just asking Keystone to stop making those claims... C'mon Keystone man up.. The only way a Roo is 1/2 ton towable is empty.

I'm very thankful we got our Dodge, we allmost bought a 1/2 ton chev with a 5.3 engine.. Then we'd been screwed.. Our truck would have sank to the ground, and we'd had no power to get that 7500lbs up the mountain.. lol We love our hemi!

Been some members here with F150's that had the same problem as us Dodge guys with these Roo's, but yea, Dogde makes em ride good, so maybe they are a lil worse..

Have a good one!

Carey


----------



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Nathan said:


> I think another reason for the sag is that 1500s are built for comfort and the dodge has a great ride. but to get this they must lengthen the suspension and make it softer.
> 
> I have the a skyline 2810 (28RSDS) and it sagged when i hitched it up (775lb tounge wieght empty) so with propane battery and all the stuff in the front it probably closer to 1000. I also have no problem pulling this beast but the sag was to much. I added supersprings and it is alot better for sure.
> 
> Good luck with you venture I know it will help alot of people out!


Are we talking about not using a WDH?!?! I figure my 28 RSDS TW is 1000+ lbs with the propane full, dual batts and a full fresh water tank. Sure, the sag is scary if I don't hook up the WDH bars (I'd be afraid to move it that way), but with the 1200 lb bars, the truck is level. Heck, I could raise the rear if I wanted to set things up incorrectly!








[/quote]

When I tried a wd hitch with 1200 lb bars, the thing rode terrible, and bounced us like rag dolls in the cab when it was level.. Me and the local dealer spent an entire sat afternoon trying to get the ride better.. Well by 5pm sat night, he said, look dude your tongue weight is 1200lbs.. They just dont make wdh to pick up a 1/2 ton with 1200lb hitch on it.. Yes the wdh made it sag less, but we had to pay for that with ride.. So I just gave up and went home and started thinkin...

Maybe cause a dodge is a lil softer we had trouble, but looking back, the dealer was prolly right, your not going to get a 1/2er level with any wdh with a 1200 hitch weight..

The more we cranked the bars the worse the ride got.. I just finally gave up.. It was an reese straight line and he had me try before I was going to buy it.. Nice guys they are..

Carey


----------



## malibutay (Sep 5, 2007)

I also have a WD and I am level. I did however have some porpoising going on and it felt a little unstable untill I got the super springs. I have quite abit of tension on my WD and I think anymore would just be to tight. it just makes me aprehensive to think that all that wieght rests on 2 small nuts holding the chains on either side of the bars.


----------



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Nathan said:


> I think another reason for the sag is that 1500s are built for comfort and the dodge has a great ride. but to get this they must lengthen the suspension and make it softer.
> 
> I have the a skyline 2810 (28RSDS) and it sagged when i hitched it up (775lb tounge wieght empty) so with propane battery and all the stuff in the front it probably closer to 1000. I also have no problem pulling this beast but the sag was to much. I added supersprings and it is alot better for sure.
> 
> Good luck with you venture I know it will help alot of people out!


Are we talking about not using a WDH?!?! I figure my 28 RSDS TW is 1000+ lbs with the propane full, dual batts and a full fresh water tank. Sure, the sag is scary if I don't hook up the WDH bars (I'd be afraid to move it that way), but with the 1200 lb bars, the truck is level. Heck, I could raise the rear if I wanted to set things up incorrectly!








[/quote]

By the way Nathan, my hitch rides on air.. It supports my entire tongue weight with just 48psi in the air bag, but I have it set on 45psi, as this gives 200lbs of hitch weight back to the truck.. The air compressor is still under warranty if it is under 150psi, so leaves lots of leway... Most people will be able to tow an average camper with a 30 psi setting... Makes for a Cadillac like ride..

The entire hitch of my roo rides on an air bag, and is supported by wheels.. Its actually a pretty elaborate device and air system I have invented.. It is very cool to have on board air on a truck too.

It actually rides better than factory.... I will have pics and videos up here soon... Just waiting for good weather.. Keeps snowing here on the weekends...

This hitch uses no wd hitch whatsoever, but you could add one if you want.. But this hitch requires no form of wd hitch at all.

Carey

ps.. But just hoping keystone quits trying to sell these roos with no claims of 1/2 ton towable

Sorry for getting this station off channel here! <wink>


----------



## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> m just asking Keystone to stop making those claims... C'mon Keystone man up.. The only way a Roo is 1/2 ton towable is empty.


_Hmmmmm_, my "little 1/2 ton Tundra" ('07/5.7) hauls my fully loaded 28krs, with Hensley hitch, without blinking.

So, maybe that statement should be revised a bit to read "....empty or with an '07 or newer Tundra"

<







sorry, couldn't resist







>


----------



## OregonCampin (Mar 9, 2007)

I have to jump in on the 1/2 ton towable as well - our tongue weight is 1250 lbs with the bikes (CRF 230 - 240lbs wet, KTM 450 XCW 245lbs wet, plus gear, two 6 volt batterys, full propane and the offset of water in the tanks) - while our F150 handled the load, we were 50 lbs over the allowable tongue weight with WD hitch and going over the mountians was a slow pull (yes, we do have some mountian passes here in Oregon). I would say it is 1/2 ton towable if you are not packing bikes, gear, etc over large mountian passes, otherwise you are pushing you truck REALLY hard - hence the reason for the upgrade in our family... F350.

Wolfie - I challege the Mighty Tundra to Willamette Pass (fully loaded of course) - Elevation 5128 (at the top) and it takes about 80 minutes to get there in a regular car from Eugene in good weather - Thats 400 feet to 5128 feet in 70 miles and then you have to come back down!







We can follow behind to give you a push up the hill!
















I had to do it!


----------



## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

OREGONCAMPIN said:


> I have to jump in on the 1/2 ton towable as well - our tongue weight is 1250 lbs with the bikes (CRF 230 - 240lbs wet, KTM 450 XCW 245lbs wet, plus gear, two 6 volt batterys, full propane and the offset of water in the tanks) - while our F150 handled the load, we were 50 lbs over the allowable tongue weight with WD hitch and going over the mountians was a slow pull (yes, we do have some mountian passes here in Oregon). I would say it is 1/2 ton towable if you are not packing bikes, gear, etc over large mountian passes, otherwise you are pushing you truck REALLY hard - hence the reason for the upgrade in our family... F350.


Ok, I just didn't really understand where you guys were coming from on the WDH. With the F150 I don't have a bad ride experience (no porpoising, and the ride is a little softer with the added weight back there). Carey, I'm sure your hitch is great and I'll be interested to look at it once unveiled. I agee that a 1/2 ton with a 30'TT is probably going to be overwieght, and a very slow pull up hills. I have a solution in mind when my lease is up that will likely closely resemble OregonCamping, Bluewedge, Sayonara and many other's out there







. I've seen Tundras in fine detail and they are nice 1/2 ton trucks, but lets not start THAT debate again....


----------



## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Back to the original topic...









I was talking to a contact at Keystone yesterday, and he informed me that the new loft model Outback took home the Most Innovative New Product award at the recent trade show in Louisville. Apparently the industry was impressed! He also stated that they are working hard to ramp up production, and hope to have the first production units out in time for some of the late winter RV shows.

I sure hope they get one to the Portland show!

Happy Trails,
Doug


----------



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

PDX_Doug said:


> I sure hope they get one to the Portland show!
> 
> Happy Trails,
> Doug


When is the Portland show?

Anyone have pictures of the inside?


----------



## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

PDX_Doug said:


> Back to the original topic...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really wish they would recognize the power of the internet and post some info for us ahead of time. Keystone.... are you listening....


----------



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Nathan said:


> I really wish they would recognize the power of the internet and post some info for us ahead of time. Keystone.... are you listening....


Seems sooooooo easy, doesn't it.


----------



## BlueWedge (Sep 11, 2005)

Now if they come out with the right model, who knows. Are these 2008 or 2009 ?


----------



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

BlueWedge said:


> Now if they come out with the right model, who knows. Are these 2008 or 2009 ?


Knock - Knock

Keystone...are you listening?


----------



## whodey (Feb 9, 2007)

Oregon_Camper said:


> Now if they come out with the right model, who knows. Are these 2008 or 2009 ?


Knock - Knock

Keystone...are you listening?
[/quote]

FIRST THINGS FIRST -- MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!









I was just on Holman's website and came across some info for the 08 Outback Loft. New Outback Loft I hope this works. Never posted a link before. If doesn't work, just go to holmanrv.com and go to toy haulers in the new inventory. Is pretty interesting though. Having a nice lounge to overlook the cg and keep your eyes on the kids, plus hauling the "toys" in the BACK. Hopefully Holman or Keystone will have one at the Dayton Show in January.

Mike


----------



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

From those pics, the loft does not effect the interior of the trailer. The garage looks to have about a 5-6 foot tall space. So if the loft was left down, it really wouldnt effect the interior.

So basically this loft is just a nice lil addition to your camper. Its like a lil sunroom that really doesnt effect the trailer interior wheather its up or down.

I was kinda thinking, how could they put toys below the upper floor.. But now I see that second story floor doesnt move..

I say A++ for implemtation.. If the wind is blowing, just drop the second story... Doesnt effect the trailer..

Very cool idea Keystone..

Thanks for the link.... Been wondering about that!

Merry Xmas!
Carey


----------



## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

From the Outback home page. http://keystone-outback.com/loft.html . James


----------



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Still thinking the loft is allows for sleeping. They are doing a poor job of showing pictures of this new trailer.


----------



## mike elliott (Dec 17, 2007)

I think this might just be the coolest trailer i,ve ever seen. my wife says don,t even think about! oh well its a good thing i like my 23rs


----------



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

bcdude said:


> I think this might just be the coolest trailer i,ve ever seen. my wife says don,t even think about! oh well its a good thing i like my 23rs


Time fo DW v2.0?


----------



## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

The loft concept isn't really new, but the popup in a hard-side is I guess. I looked hard at this model when I was shopping, as it just seemed so cool with little kids.

Timberland Sky


----------



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

BoaterDan said:


> The loft concept isn't really new, but the popup in a hard-side is I guess. I looked hard at this model when I was shopping, as it just seemed so cool with little kids.
> 
> Timberland Sky


Agree it is not a new concept, but the link you provided is a small permanent loft. The Outback is a soft sided "loft".....of which we still don't have any good pictures.


----------



## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Oregon_Camper said:


> Agree it is not a new concept, but the link you provided is a small permanent loft. The Outback is a soft sided "loft".....of which we still don't have any good pictures.


If you go here, there is a brief slide show showing the loft area, as well as the lofts included drop-down flat panel TV (Sweet!







)

Looks like a darn nice place to spend 'Happy Hour' to me!









Happy Trails,
Doug


----------



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

PDX_Doug said:


> Agree it is not a new concept, but the link you provided is a small permanent loft. The Outback is a soft sided "loft".....of which we still don't have any good pictures.


If you go here, there is a brief slide show showing the loft area, as well as the lofts included drop-down flat panel TV (Sweet!







)

Looks like a darn nice place to spend 'Happy Hour' to me!









Happy Trails,
Doug
[/quote]

Thanks...that makes is a "bit" clearer now. Would still like to see this bad boy in person.

I wonder how steep those stairs are? I can just see a kid come tumbling down the stairs in the middle of the night on their way to the restroom.









On the upside...it would be a SNAP to inspect the roof for problem areas.


----------



## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

Those pics help a lot, thanks Doug. Those are steep stairs. I've been onboard aircraft carriers with better stairs than those.

Now I understand the concept with the loft folding into the attic. Outback can do all that yet they still have a manual deployable rear queen bed?


----------



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

campmg said:


> Those pics help a lot, thanks Doug. Those are steep stairs. I've been onboard aircraft carriers with better stairs than those.
> 
> Now I understand the concept with the loft folding into the attic. Outback can do all that yet they still have a manual deployable rear queen bed?


Can't remember...has anyone ever created a mod for the read queen slide in order to add a motor?


----------



## whodey (Feb 9, 2007)

Looks like a darn nice place to spend 'Happy Hour' to me!









x2

Mike


----------



## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

I think I'm going to have to call MT's and see if they have this one on the lot to check out...

Anyone interested in a really nice 28krs?


----------



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

skippershe said:


> I think I'm going to have to call MT's and see if they have this one on the lot to check out...
> 
> Anyone interested in a really nice 28krs?


If they don't have one on the lot....i have a chain saw, which I'm sure we could use to get you started on a mod for your Outback.


----------



## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Oregon_Camper said:


> I think I'm going to have to call MT's and see if they have this one on the lot to check out...
> 
> Anyone interested in a really nice 28krs?


If they don't have one on the lot....i have a chain saw, which I'm sure we could use to get you started on a mod for your Outback.








[/quote]
Hmmm, now you got me thinking.....uh oh


----------



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

skippershe said:


> I think I'm going to have to call MT's and see if they have this one on the lot to check out...
> 
> Anyone interested in a really nice 28krs?


If they don't have one on the lot....i have a chain saw, which I'm sure we could use to get you started on a mod for your Outback.








[/quote]
Hmmm, now you got me thinking.....uh oh








[/quote]

Be down on Sunday...


----------



## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

I'd really like to see how they maintain the watertight integrity of the roof with those soft sides.

Looks like a great NASCAR setup.


----------



## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Oregon_Camper said:


> Those pics help a lot, thanks Doug. Those are steep stairs. I've been onboard aircraft carriers with better stairs than those.
> 
> Now I understand the concept with the loft folding into the attic. Outback can do all that yet they still have a manual deployable rear queen bed?


Can't remember...has anyone ever created a mod for the read queen slide in order to add a motor?
[/quote]
Self supporting would be a nice touch too....


----------



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

BoaterDan said:


> I'd really like to see how they maintain the watertight integrity of the roof with those soft sides.
> 
> Looks like a great NASCAR setup.


Wow...I bet someone was thinking of that when they made this. Perfect for the inside of the track.


----------



## jedmunson (Apr 14, 2006)

I cant believe I read the whole thing....

Very cool idea and Keystone gets an "A" for cleverness....I would like to see one after it rains a few times and see if everything is still kosher.

Also - I dont like having to give up my bedroom in my 31 RQS to sleep where the gas filled toys previously were - fumes....but if you could put one of those on top of my 31, and we could call it a play room or party room, you would have a DEAL!!!! How much fun would that be?


----------



## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

I just wonder if the couch folds down somehow...it must...If it does, it should make into a spare bed. Then you would need curtains...to keep out the light of course









So, besides the rain leakage factor, wonder how much fun it is to keep the eisenglass clean? If it's anything like a boat, then not a whole lot of fun









I called Mike Thompson's and they don't have one in stock...I guess that might have something to do with the fact that it's not January yet


----------



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

skippershe said:


> I just wonder if the couch folds down somehow...it must...If it does, it should make into a spare bed. Then you would need curtains...to keep out the light of course
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not sure January has anything to do with it...the other dealer (that I got the pictures from) had one in stock.


----------

