# Need Immediate Help, Please!!!



## Acadia Hiker (May 29, 2007)

Getting ready for our first trip of the year this weekend (and waiting until the last minute to do everything...







).

I'm having some _major_ electrical problems. I was doing a once-over of all the systems and the radio wasn't working, nor the sensors for the tanks/battery, nor the furnace/air conditioner. I checked the breakers and everything was fine. I checked the GFCI in the bathroom and it's fine. Then I started pulling fuses. The bottom 40A fuse was blown. I tried to replace it and I got an arc.







Hey idiot, pull the shore power!







More arcs and blew another fuse. OK, battery? Sparks at the battery when trying to remove the negative coupler!









With the battery unhooked I replaced the fuse _again_ and tried to hook up the battery _again_. More sparks trying to put it back on. Checked the new fuse--blown again. Five fuses later, and a trip to buy more at the Advance Auto, I'm here.

Help, please.







I'd like to have a good experience for our first trip of the year. I really don't want to start off the year on a negative note (pun fully intended--just trying to be positive!







).


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Are you 100% sure your battery is hooked up correctly (positive/negative)?

The items you described are a combination of 12v DC and 110 AC items.

Do you have lights on in the trailer?

Unplug it from the house, use a voltmeter to test the battery.


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## Acadia Hiker (May 29, 2007)

White to positive, black to negative. Shore power is unplugged. Lights are working and are turned off, so they aren't drawing.

I had the battery on trickle charge all winter if that helps.


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Do you have a voltmeter to test the battery?
Start testing all other 12v items; lights, sensors, water pump, etc. see if they all are working.


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## Acadia Hiker (May 29, 2007)

No voltmeter...


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Might be something to run to Sears or another hardware store and buy, doesn't take an expensive one. Its not a big deal, you are getting power from the battery.

The 40amp fused your replaced is labeled for what item?


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## sl1960a (Nov 13, 2007)

Y-Guy is right. Get a VOM and start testing your circuits. That's how you test anything electrical. And be careful - if you're not comfortable probing and measuring circuits get somebody who will. The wrong amount of current (not voltage) can take you down permanently.


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

I'm also really wondering if the battery is hooked up backwards. A couple sparks are not abnormal when hooking up a battery, especially if there is a circuit open when doing it. But if you are really getting them flying then something else is going on here. I'll try to check back in, I've got a meeting to head into now. Good luck!


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## Ray C (Apr 4, 2007)

i would check your leads to the batt. i think you have them backwards the one that is screwed to the main frame about 12 inches from the battery is the ground
i just looked at mine and white is ground or - black is positive or+


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## Acadia Hiker (May 29, 2007)

Ray C said:


> i would check your leads to the batt. i think you have them backwards the one that is screwed to the main frame about 12 inches from the battery is the ground
> i just looked at mine and white is ground or - black is positive or+


We have a winner!!!!!!!!!!














(And a weiner...














)

Thanks everyone. I knew I could count on you folks.


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## having_fun (Jun 19, 2006)

I agree, connecting the batt is not natural, black to pos, white to neg. Best to make sure that the neg is going to the frame, no matter what color.


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

the 40 amp fuse in the converter is a reverse polarity protection fuse.
It's job is to blow when you hook the battery up backwards.
Negative on the battery goes to the lead that's connected to the frame. Which on an Outback is usually white.
After the battery is hooked up correctly, you need to make sure the 40 amp fuse is good and you prolly need to replace the in-line fuse behind the radio too as it usually blows.


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## Acadia Hiker (May 29, 2007)

Katrina said:


> the 40 amp fuse in the converter is a reverse polarity protection fuse.
> It's job is to blow when you hook the battery up backwards.
> Negative on the battery goes to the lead that's connected to the frame. Which on an Outback is usually white.
> After the battery is hooked up correctly, you need to make sure the 40 amp fuse is good and you prolly need to replace the in-line fuse behind the radio too as it usually blows.


Well, that explains why the radio isn't working...









I now have white=- and black=+ printed in very big blue permanent marker on the inside of the tank cover so this doesn't happen next year.


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

I know that you have this info already but you should have one of these on the frame. http://www.outbackers.com/forums/index.php...si&img=8505 . James


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## having_fun (Jun 19, 2006)

Yes, that is what I saw, as I was just about to connect a new batt. It made me scratch my head, relook at the wiring, and finally agree with the sticker.

Can ayone explain why this is exactly backwards from everything you, or anyone, have ever learned about DC batteries and wiring colors? A/C Household wireing is like this, but for this we are connecting a DC 12v battery. Black to positive is just completly backwards from every convention I have ever seen for DC voltage as an engineer. I put a strip of red electrical tape on the black wire, and a stripe of black tape on the white wire just so I would not make this mistake.


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

Gilligan didn't have any red wire and the Skipper was yelling at him to hurry it up. James


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

I can't say why they use the black and white but always remember black can "positively" bite, white never (negative) does. They wire the trailers like a house, why they don't change the colors for the batteries is beyond me.

Glad it's working.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

Acadia Hiker said:


> the 40 amp fuse in the converter is a reverse polarity protection fuse.
> It's job is to blow when you hook the battery up backwards.
> Negative on the battery goes to the lead that's connected to the frame. Which on an Outback is usually white.
> After the battery is hooked up correctly, you need to make sure the 40 amp fuse is good and you prolly need to replace the in-line fuse behind the radio too as it usually blows.


Well, that explains why the radio isn't working...









I now have white=- and black=+ printed in very big blue permanent marker on the inside of the tank cover so this doesn't happen next year.
[/quote]

My 2007 Outback has a 3" square sticker on the outside of the left tongue frame rail that says "Black = Positive" and "White = Negative." Keystone wires their trailers exactly opposite of automotive industry standards. I'm not sure why they do it that way, but you've figured that out already with the help of the good folks here, at Outbackers. So don't consider yourself "dumb or dumber," just a little "wiser." After all, you hooked it up the same way anyone would, considering personal experience with marine wiring and automotive wiring standards. (Gotta wonder where Keystone's electrical engineers went to school







- but they should go back and take "Basic 12V Electricity 101.)

Sounds like Gilligan forgot to put that sticker on your trailer. (Are your Gray and Black Tank handles mislabeled, also - another of Gilligan's goofs on a lot of trailers.)

Mike


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## LarryTheOutback (Jun 15, 2005)

Scoutr2 said:


> Keystone wires their trailers exactly opposite of automotive industry standards.


This is not a Keystone or Outback issue. We had a thread on this a couple of years back and it turns out that Keystone is building to the RV standard. So this one can be attributed to The Professor not Gilligan.

Ed


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Just like house wiring since the Outback is a house on wheels. Black is hot and white is neutral or a defacto ground.


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## small5 (Sep 12, 2003)

Ray C said:


> i would check your leads to the batt. i think you have them backwards the one that is screwed to the main frame about 12 inches from the battery is the ground
> i just looked at mine and white is ground or - black is positive or+


*CORRECT ANSWER!!!! *I noticed this when we first purchased our trailer in '03 and I labeled them SO no one else would hook them up wrong


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## prankster (Dec 20, 2007)

how about an easy fix, since the trailers are using a car battery and everyone knows cars/trucks are red + black - thenhead down to the local hardware/automotive store and get some red and black tape..............wrap the positive wire of the trailer in red tape and wrap the negative wire in black tape !!!!!!
no more sparky sparky!!


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

having_fun said:


> Yes, that is what I saw, as I was just about to connect a new batt. It made me scratch my head, relook at the wiring, and finally agree with the sticker.
> 
> *Can ayone explain why this is exactly backwards from everything you, or anyone, have ever learned about DC batteries and wiring colors? A/C Household wireing is like this, but for this we are connecting a DC 12v battery. Black to positive is just completly backwards from every convention I have ever seen for DC voltage as an engineer. I put a strip of red electrical tape on the black wire, and a stripe of black tape on the white wire just so I would not make this mistake.*


Think of it as a rolling *house *on wheels. All of the AC circuits are neutral (or ground) are common and white. So they made all the DC the same way.

You will also notice that ALL of the DC wiring is basically white wire with a colored positive marker. I am sure white wire with a marker is easier to work with compared to Black wire with a marker color.


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## Acadia Hiker (May 29, 2007)

First off, thanks for everyone's help. We had a great trip this weekend and it would not have been possible if you folks hadn't stepped up and helped someone that you didn't even know. This place is awesome!









Guess what I found on the frame when hooking up on Friday?







Problem with me is that it was on the other side of the trailer frame from the battery. Besides, who actually reads stickers on the side of the tongue?









The radio is still dead. Pulled all ten screws out from the case and didn't see a fuse in there. Can anyone offer some insight?


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Acadia Hiker said:


> The radio is still dead. Pulled all ten screws out from the case and didn't see a fuse in there. Can anyone offer some insight?


Yep, head out and pick yourself up a new stereo









Glad you had a great time this weekend after all!


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## Acadia Hiker (May 29, 2007)

skippershe said:


> The radio is still dead. Pulled all ten screws out from the case and didn't see a fuse in there. Can anyone offer some insight?


Yep, head out and pick yourself up a new stereo









Glad you had a great time this weekend after all!









[/quote]

Not what I wanted to hear, but that's what I figured. Anyone know of a good buy?


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

Acadia Hiker said:


> The radio is still dead. Pulled all ten screws out from the case and didn't see a fuse in there. Can anyone offer some insight?


Yep, head out and pick yourself up a new stereo









Glad you had a great time this weekend after all!









[/quote]

Not what I wanted to hear, but that's what I figured. Anyone know of a good buy?
[/quote]

You may have done yourself a favor! Almost ANY car stereo you buy will sound better than the one that came from the factory. But then you'll need to replace those $2 speakers next. It just never ends. It all depends on what things are most important to you.

I have spent some money upgrading and improving (mods), but I am selective. I don't want to spend a ton of money and then trade it all away in 4-5 years, only to repeat the cycle.

Did you check the 12V fuse in the fuse panel for the stereo? Maybe that's blown, too.

Just my ramblings. Glad to hear you got it figured out and were able to go camping over the weekend.

Mike


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## Acadia Hiker (May 29, 2007)

Scoutr2 said:


> The radio is still dead. Pulled all ten screws out from the case and didn't see a fuse in there. Can anyone offer some insight?


Yep, head out and pick yourself up a new stereo









Glad you had a great time this weekend after all!









[/quote]

Not what I wanted to hear, but that's what I figured. Anyone know of a good buy?
[/quote]

You may have done yourself a favor! Almost ANY car stereo you buy will sound better than the one that came from the factory. But then you'll need to replace those $2 speakers next. It just never ends. It all depends on what things are most important to you.

I have spent some money upgrading and improving (mods), but I am selective. I don't want to spend a ton of money and then trade it all away in 4-5 years, only to repeat the cycle.

Did you check the 12V fuse in the fuse panel for the stereo? Maybe that's blown, too.

Just my ramblings. Glad to hear you got it figured out and were able to go camping over the weekend.

Mike
[/quote]

Yeah, I checked the fuse. It was OK...







Thanks for the response.


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## Acadia Hiker (May 29, 2007)

Just ordered one of these: Linky-Dinky-Do

If you have never ordered from NewEgg.com, you're missing out. Great prices and incredibly fast shipping. I ordered something for my office on Tuesday afternoon and it was here on Thursday morning.


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Wow! That was quick!
Did you get any inside information on what to order or did you just stumble upon this one?
Looks good, even has an easy to access auxilary plug in for an ipod









I'll be looking for a review once you hook it up...any plans for new speakers as well??


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## Acadia Hiker (May 29, 2007)

skippershe said:


> Wow! That was quick!
> Did you get any inside information on what to order or did you just stumble upon this one?
> Looks good, even has an easy to access auxilary plug in for an ipod
> 
> ...


NewEgg is my first stop--*always*. TigerDirect is second. No one else's price came close to NewEgg and it's a relativley inexpensive Sony--a great brand name. Good reviews elsewhere helped. Didn't need much more than that.

No, I'm not replacing the speakers--they are fine for what we use them for. The wife doesn't like 'loud'.


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## Acadia Hiker (May 29, 2007)

Guess what? There's a fuse in the back of the stock radio...







It was hidden under the wire harness and difficult to see.

I have to return the one I bought from NewEgg. Luckily I discovered this before I destroyed the box it came in and tried to install it.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Acadia Hiker said:


> Guess what? There's a fuse in the back of the stock radio...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pack it up and send it to me. I paypal you the Neweggs cost. PM me if you're interested. I ready to have a stereo that has the ability to hook up my ipod.


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