# Who's On Board For The New Ownership



## Oregon_Camper

I haven't talked to Doug, so this thread might get blocked/removed.

I'm not one for sitting around hoping things work out. I'm telling everyone here, right now, I'm on board with the idea of taking part the group ownership of this site.

Who's with me?


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## ZHB

Oregon_Camper said:


> I haven't talked to Doug, so this thread might get blocked/removed.
> 
> I'm not one for sitting around hoping things work out. I'm telling everyone hear, right now, I'm on board with the idea of taking part the group ownership of this site.
> 
> Who's with me?


I just read Doug's post, and I am shocked. I had no idea these problems even existed here.


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## Ridgway-Rangers

I'm in


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## rock hill

ZHB said:


> I haven't talked to Doug, so this thread might get blocked/removed.
> 
> I'm not one for sitting around hoping things work out. I'm telling everyone hear, right now, I'm on board with the idea of taking part the group ownership of this site.
> 
> Who's with me?


I just read Doug's post, and I am shocked. I had no idea these problems even existed here.
[/quote]

WOW, I am in shock, and disapointed. I need to take this in before I can make any decisions. I would be happy to pay a membership fee though if that helps.


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## CamperAndy

ZHB said:


> I just read Doug's post, and I am shocked. I had no idea these problems even existed here.


They exist everywhere but it sometimes exceeds the limit of a persons tolerance. It looks like Doug reached that point.


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## ZHB

rock hill said:


> I just read Doug's post, and I am shocked. I had no idea these problems even existed here.


WOW, I am in shock, and disapointed. I need to take this in before I can make any decisions. I would be happy to pay a membership fee though if that helps.
[/quote]

X2


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## john7349

Lots of details to work out, but I'll stay.


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## mswalt

> I'm not one for sitting around hoping things work out. I'm telling everyone here, right now, I'm on board with the idea of taking part the group ownership of this site.
> 
> Who's with me?


Jim,

I have no experience at anything like this, not much time to put in the effort, and even less money to use in helping out, but I cannot imagine getting online one day day and not having Outbackers.com to read.

So, if there is any thing I can do to help, I would like to try. I'll talk to the DW this weekend and let her know what's going on. I cannot commit until I get her blessing----we're a partnership.

Mark


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## kemccarthy

I took am in shock. I only joined this group about a month ago and found it to be to wonderful as we purchased our first outback from another member and have learned so much already... As a newbie, it is hard to understand how others can turn such a great site into such negative attacks, for that Doug, I am sorry... I hope outbackers stays around as I truely enjoy it...


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## Compulynx

Although I made kind of a negative post in regards to the Koala Club membership, I am in the dark about who this 1% is and what is going on. However I did have an uneasy feeling about it all.

Could someone here who has been here a while enlighten us newer folks on what the heck is going on?

Who is this "other group" and "other website"?

I love the site, but I have found over the years they come and go. Most in some kind of secrecy about what is happening.

If I do get kicked, I enjoyed all the fellowship here, and hope to see you all on the road. If not, I will post projects as I do them.

I just can't figure out why folks can't get along.....

C


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## CamperAndy

Compulynx said:


> Although I made kind of a negative post in regards to the Koala Club membership, I am in the dark about who this 1% is and what is going on. However I did have an uneasy feeling about it all.
> 
> Could someone here who has been here a while enlighten us newer folks on what the heck is going on?
> 
> Who is this "other group" and "other website"?
> 
> I love the site, but I have found over the years they come and go. Most in some kind of secrecy about what is happening.
> 
> If I do get kicked, I enjoyed all the fellowship here, and hope to see you all on the road. If not, I will post projects as I do them.
> 
> I just can't figure out why folks can't get along.....
> 
> C


No matter where you are or where you go there will be those that will find fault and try to disrupt things to prove a point. Most of the issues have been very petty and have gotten blown out of proportion. Some of them just fade away, some leave in a huff but some keep coming back and poking things with a sharp stick. That last group for the moment will be left nameless unless some of them who are still here want to pony up and take a little credit for the havoc they have wrought.

The worst part is they think they can make things better by doing the things they do but they know in their heart this failure is their work.


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## mv945

Oh man. I just signed up for Charter yesterday. I am in the same situation as mswalt in regards to the time/money issue. I definitely wanted to contribute to the site, which is why I signed up for Charter. I need a little time to think about whether I have the time and money to become an 'owner' or to just request a refund for now and wait until things get ironed out. Very disapointed that this situation even exists.


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## tdvffjohn

Simply put, there were people who were not happy when Doug purchased Outbackers. The other site I, myself will not name because it was not formed to be a rival to Outbackers and the majority of members are very happy being members of both. Some were not happy with 'the rules' here but chose to stay and remind 'us' what is wrong and how it should be run. Suggestions were fine, thats normal but non stop critisising gets old. I ll apply simple logic to the issue. If you go to a campground and you don t like the rules or how its run, you cannot badger the owner constantly to fix his business to suit you. You either accept it or move on. No one is 100% in agreement with everything. No one liked to hear the comment 'if you don t like it here, then leave' but that is as simple as it gets. Accept, enjoy the fun and friends or move on.

John


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## bill_pfaff

I hate to be ignorant but where are the postings in question (Charter membership and latest Doug posting)? For some reason I did not get notice of either one and I can't find either one.

Thanks


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## tdvffjohn

http://www.outbackers.com/forums/index.php...c=26567&hl=


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## Oregon_Camper

mv945 said:


> Oh man. I just signed up for Charter yesterday. I am in the same situation as mswalt in regards to the time/money issue. I definitely wanted to contribute to the site, which is why I signed up for Charter. I need a little time to think about whether I have the time and money to become an 'owner' or to just request a refund for now and wait until things get ironed out. Very disapointed that this situation even exists.


Doug's message said he would take care of anyone that already paid. Just PM him if you think you want out.

However, I would suggest you stick around for the fight. We have a wonderful thing here, I don't want to see it slip away.


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## H2oSprayer

Oregon_Camper said:


> Who's with me?


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## tdvffjohn

H2oSprayer said:


> Who's with me?











[/quote]


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## Oregon_Camper

Everyone that is interested in taking part in the new ownership (however that may pan out) send me a PM with your email address.

I will run lead on getting all of organized (that I know how to do). I've never even been a MOD on this site, so we will need help and understanding during this transition period.


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## SmkSignals

Wow, I don't even know where to start &#8230; So the site got sold to a different person, big deal. I had no idea this site was even considered a business. Everyone has the right to make a dollar last I knew. I am sure Doug didn't sit at the cash register watching the total's just come flying in.

If you don't like the site, leave. If you are going to cause a ruckus, you are gonna get kicked out. Why be such a PITA. It is an internet forum people. I know a lot of people have made personal friendships here, but it is still the internet. Go to your other forum now and quit bugging people here, whom ever you are&#8230;

Jeez, how can some people become so distraught over an internet forum. I just don't get it. I would like to here from this 1%.

LONG LIVE OUTBACKERS !!


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## Rob_G

tdvffjohn said:


> Who's with me?











[/quote]









[/quote]
Ah... what the hell...why not! I'm in!

(mucho experience in forum backend admin/geek by trade)


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## SoCalOutback

Just sent Doug a message, I'm in on his proposal and can offer technical know how if needed.


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## Oregon_Camper

Rob_G said:


> Ah... what the hell...why not! I'm in!
> (mucho experience in forum backend admin/geek by trade)


Sweet!!! We'll take your expertise!!


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## California Jim

This is all just so sad. People and their petty complaints can be so pathetic.


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## Castle Rock Outbackers

As member #76, I wish Outbackers.com the best. I would not have learned so much about my shiny new 2004 26 RS if this site had not existed. I still remember when it was possible to read all the new posts every day.

Good luck everyone.

Randy


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## SmkSignals

And call me dumb, naive, or stupid, but I would like to see Keystone get involved in this situation. I guarantee they have sold trailers solely because of this site, and the willingness of people to help each other with their Outback.

LONG LIVE OUTBACKERS.


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## prevish gang

I hope everyone will calm down a little about this. Yes, it's a shock, but how can a website that means so much to so many just go away once the membership know that there are problems. It sounds like Doug is distraught right now and emotional. Who could blame him? But you know that the membership will step up and do something. The domain site is paid for through the end of June, so there is plenty of time to do something. Because Doug will not have to shell out any more money until then, he will be fine financially and because he won't have the pressures of dealing with the frustrations of ownership, he will have more time to focus on his job, his family and camping so he will be good there as well.

I am concerned though that the rally section has disappeared. These rallies still exist. Why not just change the names as to take the Outbackers portion out of the name. Those of us who no longer own an outback basically stay here to enjoy the company of cherished friends that we have made here and having Outbackers in the name has no bearing on the rally itself. I'm not trying to cause problems by saying this, it just seems that this decison to pull the rallies section might cause undue panic over nothing since the rallies will go on as planned and there is very important information that needs to still be on the site. Take OB out of each name and just all it a rally.

Lastly remember when you join together as an owner forum that too many cooks can spoil the broth. Appoint a person, say someone like Ghosty, who we have never known to be unkind, has always been fair and levelheaded to be the new administrator. One thing the original owner Vern did was rule with a light hand. I never saw things escalate during his ownership and I do not know if that was because he dealt with people behind the scenes fairly or if it was because he allowed people to express an opinion as long as they were nice about it. Either way, he did a wonderful job and it is a shame that his wife got sick and he sold the forum.

Calm down people. We will be okay. There is plenty of time to get the details worked out. Let's get the emotions down and put our heads together. Remember as well that when there is trouble there is usually fault on both sides to some degree. We don't know the whole story, but does it really matter at this point?


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## tdvffjohn

Actually Vern ruled with a light hand because there were only 20 posts per day on the entire forum. To compare the two eras or owners cannot be done.

Fault on both sides......................time to adjust, maybe. 100 people is a tall order. Seriously realize that this is not a bluff and all might not be well in a few weeks.


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## Livin4weekenz

I barley know how to email let alone run a website but absolutely do not want to see outbackers.com go quetly into the night. I'm in









BESIDES I JUST ORDERED MY STICKERS!!


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## Fanatical1

Wow... I had no idea that that these issues were so troubling to our community and to Doug! I am saddened by what 
distress must have been going on behind the scenes and it also makes me mad as heck that people feel they can say things
over the net that they might never do in a face to face situation. I for one do not want to lose Outbackers.

Let me know what I can do to help as this progresses.

Mark


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## Nathan

I had no idea


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## CTDOutback06

Although I know a lot about computers, I know nothing about running a website but I am willing to help out in any way I can. I too cannot imagine not being able to get on the net and go to Outbackers.com.


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## Oregon_Camper

CTDOutback06 said:


> Although I know a lot about computers, I know nothing about running a website but I am willing to help out in any way I can. I too cannot imagine not being able to get on the net and go to Outbackers.com.


That makes two of us...


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## Nathan

Oregon_Camper said:


> Although I know a lot about computers, I know nothing about running a website but I am willing to help out in any way I can. I too cannot imagine not being able to get on the net and go to Outbackers.com.


That makes two of us...








[/quote]
That would leave an extra 18 hours in Jim's day!


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## wolfwood

Jim, we're with you (!) Although neither Kathy nor I really have any idea what it takes to run/operate a website, we are absolutely willing to do what we can.

Having had some rather serious discussions with Doug over the past several years and knowing just how deeply he cares about this community and how torn he has been at various times about some of the "behind the scenes" stuff, it does not surprise me - as things have apparently escalated again - that Doug has come to the conclusion that this is the decision to be made. I am sorry to say that I, too, have been directly involved with this darker element of which Doug has spoken. I, too, had hoped that they would eventually just crawl into their hole and go away but have periodically seen in various posts that they have not. Their actions on the Forum have, however, just skirted the edges so that those who are not familiar with their ugliness would likely only read the particular post and _maybe_ wonder "where is _that_ writer was coming from". More likely, though, it wouldn't even register with you as a problem. It is because Doug and the Moderators have worked so hard and so successfully to maintain the atmosphere of community that this all comes as a surprise to you. There are just some people who, by their nature for whatever reason, need to be negative, need to attack others, and need to surround themselves with others who are equally as negative and nasty. This kind of personality feeds off of others of like mind until the negativity and ugliness snowballs into something that they, themselves, believe to be real, to be "the truth" - but is actually far from either.

No. I'm not surprised. But, I am saddened by this turn of events and saddened even more by the knowledge that Doug (and his wonderful family), and something as special as this Forum which has given so much to so many, have been so attacked that Doug has been pushed to this decision. Having said all of this (and MUCH more in support of this site and Doug over the past several years), Kathy and I will each do and give anything that we can, individually and collectively, to help keep this community alive. We, however, have absolutely no interest in having anything to do with the individuals on the darker side of all of this and would strongly recommend to any "inquiring minds" out there that this component of discussion be left at the side of the road. It will do no good for anyone or anything to keep it alive.

Doug, my heart goes out to you. You have fought hard for your dream and, by living it, you have given so much to so many. What a gift you have given to so many of us. I hope we are able to return the favor - somehow.

Judi


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## Oregon_Camper

Nathan said:


> Although I know a lot about computers, I know nothing about running a website but I am willing to help out in any way I can. I too cannot imagine not being able to get on the net and go to Outbackers.com.


That makes two of us...








[/quote]
That would leave an extra 18 hours in Jim's day!








[/quote]

Right...I'm doing this for ME...the heck with you guys.

LOL....







(due to nature of this thread, I just want to make sure everyone knows that was a joke)


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## mike

Wow!. I do not know the words to say, other than whatever u need Doug, jim, and others, i'm with u guys. After reading the initial post, i felt like someone stabbed me. I have benifitted from great friendships, money saving advice, great rallies, more money saving advice, and oh yea a 3/4 ton burb with quadrasteer. I also have been allowed to test the limits of the site and help some of us do a group purchase and save some money on a tpms system. Thanks Doug!!. I firmly believe that people can chose to stay or go. I am one who will stay to the end. I also have found that if u present ur ideas to doug/moderaters in a positive light, things can happen here.

I would like to hear more about the threat of a lawsuit, I think that might clear up alot of things.


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too

CamperAndy said:


> Although I made kind of a negative post in regards to the Koala Club membership, I am in the dark about who this 1% is and what is going on. However I did have an uneasy feeling about it all.
> 
> Could someone here who has been here a while enlighten us newer folks on what the heck is going on?
> 
> Who is this "other group" and "other website"?
> 
> I love the site, but I have found over the years they come and go. Most in some kind of secrecy about what is happening.
> 
> If I do get kicked, I enjoyed all the fellowship here, and hope to see you all on the road. If not, I will post projects as I do them.
> 
> I just can't figure out why folks can't get along.....
> 
> C


No matter where you are or where you go there will be those that will find fault and try to disrupt things to prove a point. Most of the issues have been very petty and have gotten blown out of proportion. Some of them just fade away, some leave in a huff but some keep coming back and poking things with a sharp stick. That last group for the moment will be left nameless unless some of them who are still here want to pony up and take a little credit for the havoc they have wrought.

The worst part is they think they can make things better by doing the things they do but they know in their heart this failure is their work.
[/quote]

Andy couldn't have said it better.There is no "failure" though Andy, Doug didn't fail, he made a decision based on what is in his best interest and his families best interest. Shannon and the kids come first, as it should be. If anything, this forum in one helluva success...99%. It is truly sad that the people who at one time joined this forum for what it IS,( yes I said IS, because they can't change that) have joined ranks in truly childish and immature behavior. Didn't we all learn in childhood to find other friends when we couldn't get along or didn't agree? That stays the same in adulthood. The forum is a connection for hundreds of us, in positive and productive and fun and supportive ways. We come back daily and sometimes several times a day because it is a part of us, a family that sprouted from a man's dream and was proudly handed over to an incredible and loyal member who shared that dream. If you have a family member in your blood family that you don't get along with, you try to avoid family functions-right? so why can't those of you that don't want to be part of what THIS family, let the rest of us continue what is near and dear to our daily lives. For the life of me , I cannot grasp the actions of some people. For those people, it's just a forum, for the rest of it, it's more. 
If you are raising your flags, claiming victory...you couldn't be more wrong. Even if this forum goes away, you can't take the friendships that have been formed that will carry on. It truly saddens me that a fine human being who has put his heart and soul into this has been treated by a select few.

This site shouldn't have to be policed and one man shouldn't have to carry so much weight. His decisions and or actions at any given time were for him to make, whether we all agreed or liked it. It is obvious that for the majority of the members, we respect how the owner has run his forum. What happens when you don't like a store or a restaurant? you don't go there anymore, it should be no different here. We make our own choices in every aspect of our lives, why does a forum have to be any different?







. The internet is a huge place with bazillions of forums that allow everyone from every walk of life to find their niche.

I for one, am going to participate in learning what we can do to carry on. No way will 1% beat the other 99% to the ground. 
To you 1%, you cannot take away what we have learned, shared, and laughed about. The joys, tears, love, direction,friendship, advice, and laughter that we have gained and shared is monumental. That there is a place you can learn about a hitch,or a black tank, AND share your heartache about the loss of your child or pet or parent all in the same day is nothing short of unbelievable. Shame on those of you who wish to attempt to destroy a piece of so many lives...


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## Eorb

Like many, I have an Outback, because I am an Outbacker. I have been mostly just a lurker and not much of a contributor, but sign me up to help anyway I can. I have no forum skills, no tech savvy, and weak organizational skills, but I do have a strong desire to help Doug and the rest of us work through this to a beneficial conclusion. Let me know what I can do to help.


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## Reverie

OK, Deep Breathes..................In.......................Out.........................I
n........................Out.......................Repeat...

This has been a very trying time and I can tell you the emotions have been THICK. Now it is time for us to take this in and set our plans. I cannot address the financial end of this but I can tell you the time and effort it takes to keep a site going is incredible.

I want to make some key points:

1st Point:

To those that want to find the "Other Site", it really isn't the sites fault. There have been some people on that site that have been involved in this but please don't think that the site owner over there has encouraged this.

2nd Point:

There have been issues that have boiled over to an emotional state and have triggered these actions. A Few, a VERY Few were done by people that are just angry in general. Most have been genuine differences of opinion that have just escalated way beyond where they should have.

3rd Point:

I encourage you to find your way to think constructively, not destructively. Let's not grab our torches and pitchforks and burn down the swamp.

4th Point:

This is a COMMUNITY! We will pull together and survive. For the time being the Moderators will continue to Moderate and we will all work together to come up with a plan.

Nick Robinson
"Reverie"


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too

ha ha, as of right now 666 views! and some would say 666 is a curse! Patooey!


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## Carey

Shux... As soon as I was gonna get home I was gonna pony up... I was gonna take a video dropping off 11000 foot Monarch pass this wekend showing how a truck driver thats in a pick up with a 5th wheel goes down a very steep mtn pass safely.. I thought that would make a great start to my new blog!

That 'other' side has tried to recruite me again and again...

I couldnt really see what good they had to offer so I never went..

This place has always been cool from day 1 so why make a ruckus?

Sure dont want to see this place go anywhere..

I will do everything I can to help, Jim..

I have always noticed that when Doug took over it sorta turned into an east versus west kind thing.... Stupid.. We all know westerners rule!... Hey now, JOKE. IM JOKING!!!

Ive noticed that the other side were all easterners... lol Not picking on anyone... Just noticed they were all easterners.. lol

Anyway, Doug, we got your Back dude.. Dont worry, the reinforcemnets have been sounded and they are on there way! You hang in there PDX!!

Carey


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## huntr70

I wouldn't be so quick to point fingers at another website..............

There are plenty of topics and posts on this website that belittle or put down RV.Net and how it is run, and how people react to things.

I've been a member since July of 2005, and having found lots of friends through this site, it would be hard to see it go.

As things are in real life though, "it is what it is", and life will go on. Rallies are made by people, for people..........not because a website's name is used to start it. All of us that camp together will continue to do so no matter what turn this might take.

My Outback is gone for 2 years now, but I continue to frequent the site because life is a learning process, and every bit of info is knowledge, no matter where, or what website it came from.

Steve


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## prevish gang

Well said, Nick and Steve


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## Oregon_Camper

Again, I've never been a MOD, so I don't know the ropes...

Why do we try to remove all the comments from the 1% ? Why not "close" the thread and allow the 99% of use to SEE who the problem children are?

This way we know WHO they are and we will can avoid there comments in the future? Kinda like ignoring your little brother...sure it is painful while he yaps...and yaps away, but sooner or later he becomes tired for yapping with no feedback....he then went away.

I think they are getting a kick out of making our MODs work so hard. If we know WHO they are...we can all ignore them.

We have the numbers...let us moderate *with* the real MOD team.


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## Carey

huntr70 said:


> I wouldn't be so quick to point fingers at another website..............
> 
> There are plenty of topics and posts on this website that belittle or put down RV.Net and how it is run, and how people react to things.
> 
> I've been a member since July of 2005, and having found lots of friends through this site, it would be hard to see it go.
> 
> As things are in real life though, "it is what it is", and life will go on. Rallies are made by people, for people..........not because a website's name is used to start it. All of us that camp together will continue to do so no matter what turn this might take.
> 
> My Outback is gone for 2 years now, but I continue to frequent the site because life is a learning process, and every bit of info is knowledge, no matter where, or what website it came from.
> 
> Steve


Ok.... Nope, not gonna say it................... Totally disagree.................

I will get back to making my lil rv delivery to Saint George, Ut.. Then I am going home..

Maybe the walls will be reinforced by then...

What it is, is a really great forum around here and why not poke a lil fun at that 'other place' and rv.net?

Both are pretty much a JOKE...

Hey now, Just JOKING again..

Dont let me hurt your feelings... Just having a bit o fun..

Carey


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## SmkSignals

Oregon_Camper said:


> Why do we try to remove all the comments from the 1% ? Why not "close" the thread and allow the 99% of use to SEE who the problem children are?


Agreed.


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## CamperAndy

prevish gang said:


> Well said, Nick and Steve


We are not blaming the other site. When I first joined here RV.Net was the "dark side" now Outbackers is made out to be the Dark side and it is not the other site but a handful of antagonist from it, just as Nick pointed out He knows it and so do you.


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## egregg57

How can anyone be so stupid. So callous, so ridiculous. Outbackers has been a site I visit almost every day. I have met some of my closest friends on this site. How can anyone be so blind. We are not talking about a handful of people here. We are talking about thousands.

THOUSANDS of people that have laughed, cried, become Friends together, offered help and experienced together. A lot of us have become family for God sakes! Look at the Rally photos! Look at the smiles and laughs on peoples faces.

Rotten, selfish, self centered fools. HOW DARE you! You are screwing with thousands of members. Those members have families that enjoyed this site. This site has provided help, a meeting place, it used to be called a little slice of heaven.

What have you done?

I personally knew next to NOTHING about RV'ing until I found this site. Members here set me straight with a proper and safe set up, I laughed at the outrageously off the wall comments, I laughed so hard I cried. I met people I would have never even known to exist. We planned get togethers, the capers I pulled at Wolfwoods, the Treaty at Loon, I wrapped Wolfwoods RV in Caution tape and made it a crime scene! You can't tell me that this web site isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Wolfwood is barely three miles from my house. I can't imagine what my life would be like with out Kathy and Judy being in it. I would have never met them or Tim, John, Dave, Steve, Kurt, Kevin, Stacy, the list goes on.

The fact that Doug has had to come to this turns my stomach!!!

It's a damn good thing we have the moderators we do. Oh I would love to express myself. After 21 years in the Navy, I have many words that would paint a picture...what a picture it would be... but my post would be deleted and rightfully so.

I apologize to all of you. I can't say half of what I am thinking, and I can't write most of what I can say.

I am one very angry, pissed off, incredulous person right now and I hope one of you Neanderthals are reading this, or sounding it out, what ever works for you. Perhaps even has a clue of what you have done. Even if this is fixed some how, and God willing I hope so, this episode will be a black spot, but it will be a rallying cry too.

I may actually have to thank you. You may have caused such a surge in loyalty that, if it's possible the site may actually get better, if that is possible. Now all we need is the means to permantly block your collective asses from even looking at this site. 

STILL BEHIND YOU DOUG 100%, no, 150%!!

Eric


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## GoodTimes

I LOVE THIS SITE - It can't disappear - I've learned SO much from all of you. We can't let it happen. To all that have worked so hard to make this site what it is, let me take this time to say THANK YOU. I shiver to think how long it would take me to learn what I've found here. To any who have tried to tear it all down, SHAME on you.

Outbackers are awesome people. NOTHING and NO ONE can break us up. We'll come together and do WHATEVER it takes to keep this good stuff going.


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## 5th Time Around

When did we get to this place on Outbackers.com where we cannot have differences of opinions without demonizing each other?

I bought my Outback BEACAUSE of this site and the people on this site. For the first time in 10 years of RVing, we have made friends, helped people, reviewed campsites, and planned rallies.

I too have been solicited for membership in other websites, which was very off putting to me. Even though I joined one, it was not my daily stop on the web, and I have not contributed to it like I have to Outbackers. It is a shame that this has escalated to this point. I feel like I have lost a family member, knowing that Outbackers could be gone. I have made some life long friends on Outbackers that I would have never met and for that I am grateful the the site has lasted this long.

I cannot express the feelings I am having now, especially since in less than 13 days I am supposed to be at an Outbackers Rally. It will not "feel" right knowing that this is ending.

Jennifer


----------



## leaderdogmom

I too want to be counted on to help in any way I can. In the short time I have been a member I have found this site to be invaluable. I feel like I have already made friends and look forward to attending some rallies. I am not ready to ask for a refund of my charter member fee! I know I join many others feeling bad about all of the troubles for Doug that we weren't aware of. We have a great group of people here and I'm confident we can keep the site running.


----------



## bill_pfaff

It is with amazement, disbelief, and sadness that I read this posting and the relate threads.

I just found the Charter Membership offer and truly regret not having gotten in under the wire. If there is any way to still join I am willing to do that both for the cause and for whatever the consequences just so that I may be counted among the other 9,999 positive thinkers supporting Doug, the moderators and Outbackers.com.

I don't pretend to have had intimate knowledge of any particulars relating to the malcontents but I think I have seen a few of their shenanigans over the four years I have been a member and I too thought that they would plant their seed of decent and move on but I guess I was wrong.

I apologize to Doug and everyone else for being so naive and so, I hope that should there be anything I can do to help retain what is one of the few remaining bastions of civility you feel free to call upon me.

Thank you again Doug and all the moderators. 
Bill


----------



## Rob_G

Oregon_Camper said:


> Although I know a lot about computers, I know nothing about running a website but I am willing to help out in any way I can. I too cannot imagine not being able to get on the net and go to Outbackers.com.


That makes two of us...








[/quote]
I've built, supported, and maintained dozens of websites. Most hosted on my server farm that I have right here in my house. All this is is an IPBoard hosted website... PHP frontend with a MySQL backend with the portal option installed. Pretty standard. I don't know if Doug has opted for the development platform to test changes on or not. If so... great.... but it's an option.

I know there are a few people on the board with the same tech savvy I have.

We, as a community, *CAN* do this!


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## Northern Wind

Okay, I guess its time for me to put in my 1 3/4 cents worth (Canadian currency), and that brings me to my point Outbackers has introduced me to so many wonderful people I never would have met! I'm a sales manager and deal with hundreds, maybe thousands of people every year but the one thing they have in common is they usually want something from me, whether its something for free or the best deal I can give them but they all want a piece!
One of the first things I noticed on this site was that Outbackers were a group of people with a couple of things in common, their love for other people and their love of camping. All of us here have that in common, no matter what side of the 49th parallel they live on, I have met people from all over Canada and the USA that have madee us so very welcome and have grown to become incredible friends and members of our new extended family. 
There are several things that can ruin friendships, one is religion the other politics, unfortunately politics just doesn't stop with our elected officials it can take many forms and approaches. It does however always end up ruining the party. 
We need to find ways to save the original intent of this site to which is to bring people together and make new friends! I for one will do what i can to help, I'm not a computer expert (in fact I hate the dam things) but I will give what time and money that I can. I for one don't want to see this great forum that has brought so many people together not continue.

Count me in gang.

Steve


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## proffsionl

I'm in, too. And Doug, you can keep my money. I figure this site has saved me hundreds, if not thousands of dollars. I, too, had no idea anything this bad was happening. One thing I know is that I have met some of the best people I know on this forum and at the rallies (in fact, we're going camping with some of them in a couple of weeks). I can only hope that something is done to keep this community going . I find it very disturbing that some individuals would be this unreasonable and willing to force this to happen.

The best thing we can do as a community is to keep it from happening. I will be willing to help any way I can.

I can't imagine not getting my daily dose of Outbackers.com.

Let me know how I can help.


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## swanny

Man didn't see that coming. Doug I don't know what you have been going through to have it come to this. It's a shame! I do know with your position here you can't keep everybody happy. The one who must try and keep everybody on the straight and narrow usually is the bad guy. I am a VERY firm believer in, Don't b**ch and moan about an issue and not follow it up with a thought out fix. Most of the time people who follow this example want to help and stay involved. So Doug, you have done both parts, you aired it and followed up with a very good suggestion. So I say to you, take a step back regroup and come back with a new vision. To me it's quite clear after reading these post you now have a lot of help.

I worked for a privately owned company for a long time. When your not calling he shots it can be tough. Hell we were even told democracy stops at the front door. So to anybody who got their feathers ruffled on this site, get over it. You don't need to go away just be aware you will bring attention to yourself from the people in charge.

I came to this site after shopping for an RV. My wife and I both liked the Outbacks. We loved the Sydney models. I started just reading everything here. Then I bought an Outback Sydney 32FRLDS. I then jumped in and loved every minute of it. While owning the Outback we discovered as with anything likes and dislikes. If we would have just stayed home and not went to just look I would still own an Outback. Having said that my point is I still come here EVERYDAY as a SOB. Why? This is the best site. I do read many other sites, IMO they don't compare.

*OK, so whatever it takes count me in.*

Swanny


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## Sayonara

Wow.... I cant express how hard it was to read about the troubles Doug has endured with running this site. I appreciate everything you have done for us. THANK YOU DOUG!!

Jim - Moving forward, I would be more than willing to look at the details to keep Outbackers up and running. Please keep me in the "loop". I have no experience with running a web site but am willing to help out the best i can!

DT


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## Moosegut

I've just finished reading the original post of Doug's and all of these responses. I'm in a bit of a shocked state. I visited that other site a few times, early in it's inception, and I found it to be VERY childish. Like a bunch of 13 year-olds watching racy movies when mom and dad are out. It was certainly not for me. BUT, I didn't stay there and try to stir things up! Nor did I come back here and trash them!

The thing that REALLY irked me was seeing some people over there trashing outbackers mercilessly and then coming on here all sweet and sugary. Some of the comments made in this thread were from some of THOSE VERY SAME PEOPLE, who should be ashamed of themselves! The problem is, two-faced people are very rarely ashamed of themselves because they don't see themselves.

I have a tendency to be somewhat opinionated and I can get a bit riled up on a subject (No, really) so I kept my mouth shut when I saw the hypocracy. I now wish I had called those people on it when they came on here, making like all was well, all the while stabbing everyone here in the back.

This is such a shame. I agree with Jim - shed light on the slimeballs and let everyone see them for who they are. I've always said, "If you don't like the posts of certain people, don't read them." I stopped reading the backstabbers early on and we would all shun them properly, I'm sure.

I've been very busy with many things lately and I haven't posted a lot (I haven't camped all winter either - not since last August) but I read just about every day. Things are a bit tight right now but I would certainly be willing to pay a membership fee or something like that. I'll also continue to support the forum with my rapier wit.









I hope this all works out.


----------



## TurkeyBranch

No one tried to recruit me to the dark side







Am I not good enough for evil?








I have been on many boards, moderated a few, owned a few. This is always a problem, no matter what the topic. There is always someone or some group of people that are "haters". They all believe they have the right to decide for everyone. I have a DW for that!







And my DW said I will not go down without a fight.







No one has the right to say what I can or cannot view, nor do they have the right to say who I can be friends with, hangout with or get advice from and offer advice to.

Don't know what I can do, but it looks like we have a few "Tech-no Geeks" willing, if some of the "Mods" are willing and Doug can help us transition, we can do this.
I say we take over, compensate Doug, set up our officers and figure our bills and money. We make no major changes for 90 days while we settle in. Then as a change is needed we vote on it. Changing names of functions is no biggy, I am thinking of lots of names to call people, sorry I meant things right now.









Now, I do not want to see the site go anywhere, however if it has to close, temporarily (I do mean temporarily cause we will find a way to open one up where we can all do the same thing)
Anyway, got off track.

Doug, keep my money, you have earned it a thousand times over and if I had paid a mechanic for all the help I got here he would be in the top ten richest people in America

So, anyone who wants me to help, PM me. I will do all I can, sorry DW said I will do more than I can.


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## Sayonara

Does anyone have any good suggestions for links that can help teach us the details on how to run a forum?


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## TurkeyBranch

Sayonara said:


> Does anyone have any good suggestions for links that can help teach us the details on how to run a forum?


Documentation on this type board


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## CTDOutback06

If there is one thing in life I have learned it is that you cannot possibly please 100% of the people 100% of the time, no way, no how. What I can't understand is how 1% or less of the community can bring down the entire empire. Let's all remember that there is strength in numbers and not let a few bad apples ruin this for the whole bunch of us. There has to be a solution that we can all live with, whether it's a fee site with rules or whatever but there has to be something that can keep this community alive.


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## hyewalt34

Put me on the list for those who will help. Member #313 and proud of it!

Walter


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## russlg

Oregon_Camper said:


> I haven't talked to Doug, so this thread might get blocked/removed.
> 
> I'm not one for sitting around hoping things work out. I'm telling everyone here, right now, I'm on board with the idea of taking part the group ownership of this site.
> 
> Who's with me?


Jim...
My $100 was given to outbackers.com to do whatever was neccessary. I do not want a refund, even if (God forbid!!) this site goes dark. I don't have alot of money, but I do have some time. I don't have computer skills but I do have loyalty. I am behind whoever ends up running this forum and look to you to be one of the leaders to take us forward.

i consider Doug a hero. While I am disappointed with the news, I have no ill will feelings for you Doug, a guy knows his limitations. Instead I once again offer you gratitude for you reign of the outbackers legacy.

PM me if I can help Jim.... I *DO NOT* want a refund!!


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too

Oregon_Camper said:


> Again, I've never been a MOD, so I don't know the ropes...
> 
> Why do we try to remove all the comments from the 1% ? Why not "close" the thread and allow the 99% of use to SEE who the problem children are?
> 
> This way we know WHO they are and we will can avoid there comments in the future? Kinda like ignoring your little brother...sure it is painful while he yaps...and yaps away, but sooner or later he becomes tired for yapping with no feedback....he then went away.
> 
> I think they are getting a kick out of making our MODs work so hard. If we know WHO they are...we can all ignore them.
> 
> We have the numbers...let us moderate *with* the real MOD team.


Let The *Mod Squad* Do The Job


----------



## outback loft

I am in for helping keep this site up. I may not be putting up posts as much as I would like, but I am lurking around here twice a day, every day.(except for when I am camping on my Outback). I will not ask for a refund on my Charter Membership, I have found this site to be more than helpful in quite a few matters, and I think that I have even been able to help out the few other owners of the Loft model out there, since I have just about disected mine with a fine tooth comb to figure out where I can run wires, and how things work.

Let me know what I can do to keep Outbackers.com alive

Brent


----------



## Doxie-Doglover-Too

SmkSignals said:


> Why do we try to remove all the comments from the 1% ? Why not "close" the thread and allow the 99% of use to SEE who the problem children are?


Agreed.

[/quote]

x2 or how ever many x's are needed by the time I get to the latest comments


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## MO7Bs

As for me and my house...

You (the collective you, the COMMUNITY) have saved us an unmeasurable amout of time, frustration and money.

We are in, whatever is needed to keep this COMMUNITY going, count the Bricker's in.

Paul


----------



## Irishcampers

We're just dumbfounded with the whole situation!









Well, us newbies are still planning to rally in Gettysburg in June. Call it what you will; we'll be there.


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too

1590 reviews







and it's soooo obvious this place has tremendous support


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## Livin4weekenz

Irishcampers said:


> We're just dumbfounded with the whole situation!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, us newbies are still planning to rally in Gettysburg in June. Call it what you will; we'll be there.


I spoke with Rick this afternoon he was unaware of what is going on. Hopefully we'll get this taken care of soon.

I'm ready for Drummer Boy lets go!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Partsman Ed

russlg said:


> I haven't talked to Doug, so this thread might get blocked/removed.
> 
> I'm not one for sitting around hoping things work out. I'm telling everyone here, right now, I'm on board with the idea of taking part the group ownership of this site.
> 
> Who's with me?


Jim...
My $100 was given to outbackers.com to do whatever was neccessary. I do not want a refund, even if (God forbid!!) this site goes dark. I don't have alot of money, but I do have some time. I don't have computer skills but I do have loyalty. I am behind whoever ends up running this forum and look to you to be one of the leaders to take us forward.

i consider Doug a hero. While I am disappointed with the news, I have no ill will feelings for you Doug, a guy knows his limitations. Instead I once again offer you gratitude for you reign of the outbackers legacy.

PM me if I can help Jim.... I *DO NOT* want a refund!!
[/quote]

We both know that we have plenty of time and not alot of money since we work for auto dealer








I would be happy to send any refund check to keep the website running.

Ed


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## Y-Guy

Doug's letter took my breath away, I knew some issues were brewing but really had no idea it had come to this level.

As some of you know I have been a Mod here and I am a Mod now over on RV.net. Laugh at RV.net as you may the reality is that its one of the largest RV communities on the web and trust me we have more then our share of jerks. Its not easy being an owner or mod on any of these forums, everyone has an opionion and is an expert in the field - hey its part of the reason we come on forums.

With that said the Mod staff here and Doug need to be commended for taking the heat as long as they have and keeping it pretty quiet.

However it's way way way past time to play Mr. Nice Guy anymore. Plain and simple if you can not play by the rules the leave, the door is located in the upper right (Windows users) and upper right (Mac users). Its also time for the ownership/mods to cease putting up with the childish behaviors; ban or suspend folks that can not or will not play by the rules.

The money was never an issue, sure I like to have more, but I gave it to help offset the costs of this forum. If I can help out I will, but I won't be one that allows jerks to impact the users and attitude on this website.

I understand why Doug has taken the steps he has, and any of those that wish to be part of this need to also understand the legal aspects of things too.


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## mike

y-guy, i think it might help if u can explain some of the legalities u mentioned. I am relatively new to forums this basically being the only one i frequent on a regular basis. I think it might help explain some of the concerns out there. Thanks.


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too

y-guy, i think it might help if u can explain some of the legalities u mentioned. 
[/quote]

x2


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## Scottyfish

Would anyone mind PM'ing me this "other" site? I would like to do some research into this whole topic.


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## Y-Guy

Legalities come down to a variety of things from possible liability, slander, threats, being pulled into a lawsuit between people that said something on the forum, etc. The LLC helps shield owners from some of this, but there are still problems that can arise. Though the courts often side with these public forums and the owners there are issues that need to be considered for any one person or group of owners.


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## ROB & JUDY OUTBACKERS

Member #5043 an proud of it. I am not an original member, but I have been a member for three years now and have received enormous amount of help and information from this site. Because this site has been so helpful, I became a Charter Member within minutes of the opportunity to become one. I will help as much as I can.
Rob


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## MO7Bs

ROB & JUDY OUTBACKERS said:


> Member #5043 an proud of it. I am not an original member, but I have been a member for three years now and have received enormous amount of help and information from this site. Because this site has been so helpful, I became a Charter Member within minutes of the opportunity to become one. I will help as much as I can.
> Rob


Rob, were you the other 'industrious' person that jumped too early on the Charter membership?










Paul


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## alebar17

Always the last to find out.....

Though I don't always have time to check the forums, when I do check in ( mostly lurking) I am usually pleased to find something new and interesting to read. 
If we have a problem with the TT, this is the first and best place to look for a solution. In fact, part of the reason we chose an Outback was because of the support to be found here.
We have met wonderful people, and I feel that I already know alot more that we haven't met.

I have much more of the same to say, but I guess the most important part is that I would miss Outbackers if it was gone, and although I have minimal technical ability and time, I am willing to help any way that I can in the future.


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## Scottyfish

OK, I have the site. And my hunch has been confirmed....


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## Carey

Y-Guy said:


> Legalities come down to a variety of things from possible liability, slander, threats, being pulled into a lawsuit between people that said something on the forum, etc. The LLC helps shield owners from some of this, but there are still problems that can arise. Though the courts often side with these public forums and the owners there are issues that need to be considered for any one person or group of owners.


Well, maybe the "other side" should realize this also... Some of the petty words Ive read over the years could cost them also.. Who knows... Maybe someone saved some of those comments that have been written.... ??? Maybe someone has posed at the other side and gathered info for a war... Who knows.. Who can say.. People need to think about this stuff before drawing the lawsuit guns..

Does anyone actually think Doug could get rich from this site?... How could they?.. Cant they do math?

In my eyes Doug went out on a limb to offer a more rich site..

He is giving out 100 lifer memberships.. Ok that equals 10k

So that pays for not even 2 years at 5500 a year.. Then what? Every year after, a good 150 will need recruited at 30some bucks to continue to pay that 5500 a year..

So, I think it is pretty big of Doug to hang it out there like that.. Doug feels that this wont be a problem and believes with his heart that the site will continue to grow and continue to pay for itself..

How many of you would gamble with 5500 a year?

Just for this I have some big kahuna respect for our "cowboy"

I also believe that the site will pay for itself, but in coming years may have some up and down years, and it could cost Doug even more than now.. Our leader has a heart and a dream... I think its time to have a clearing house.... Send the trouble away... If they want to buck back... Trust me, they are out numbered..

Everyone always wants what they cant have... This is normal..

After driving and thinking about this the last few hundred miles, I have gotten mad... This is a principal thing... Im with my bud Bubba on this one... When principals are threatened its a whole NEW game..

Carey


----------



## Y Guy's Wife

I get really cranky when a few people ruin things for the group. I think it's sad that it is coming to this, although I totally understand Doug's situation and he needs to do what he needs to do for his family.

I for one think that we need to quit worrying about ticking someone off and make people follow the rules. Of course as a teacher, we need to teach and remind them of the rules but when someone knows the rules, has been taught and reminded of the rules, then consequences come into play. You don't play nice, no one will want to play with you and you will not be welcome. The whole group shall not be punished for the actions of a few.

I've never been a mod but I'm really good at giving simple, concise expectations and directions when people are making poor choices.







Let me know if I can help moderate a forum. I spend way too much time on the internet doing nothing productive. I might as well have a productive reason to be here.

Off my soapbox now. This site will not go down, I have confidence that those of us who make this place a true community, won't let it.


----------



## MO7Bs

Scottyfish said:


> OK, I have the site. And my hunch has been confirmed....


Funny how life goes...

You get out of it what you give, these folks are in for some real bad times. It's so unfortunate that they can't see what they are doing to themselves.

There are so many euphamisms (sorry 'bout the spelling if it's not right) for the whole thing...

Karma
Reap what you sow
What goes around comes around
Paybacks a real ?????
God's gonna get ya for that
etc
etc

I would love to know their motivations for threating a lawsuit over an on-line forum. For heaven's sake folks, we are all just trying to help each other enjoy a common past-time. I work too hard at a real J.O.B. to have time to fight on-line too. Maybe these folks need a more rewarding full-time occupation or something, or maybe another hobby that's not so stressful and maybe then they will let us enjoy our well deserved free time.

Bottom line...if you don't like it here...find another forum...start another forum...stop clicking on your link to this website or typing the web address or change your homepage...if you need help, PM me, I'll give you the instructions. LEAVE US ALONE if you don't like the company. Do you go to a church where they practice a religion you don't agree with, or a bar that plays the wrong kind of music for you, or a beach that allows this or that activity that you don't enjoy, or to a country that has customs you don't care for? Most likely not, so don't come here and LEAVE US ALONE.

WOW...sorry folks...think I'm done...for now!

Paul


----------



## Scottyfish

No Paul, you are on the correct track. This is all quite frustrating especialy once you locate the "other" site and discover who some of "their" top posters are. There are those who have multi-personalities in our midst and on this very thread. I have learned many things this night, and have confirmed why I do not trust certain people from their earlier actions and posts.


----------



## mountainlady56

For everyone's information, there's not just ONE "other site", but two. I was a member of one, for a while, but I'm a lady, and, in chat, the language was horrible. I've never been a member of the other, and stumbled upon it quite by chance. Much to my horror, there were terrible posts made about me. Bless his heart, Doug came to my aid, as did Nick (Reverie), when I made them aware of the situation, and the posts were removed. There may be posts on there much worse, now, but I've been blocked from viewing it. However, that's fine.....I don't want to associate with anyone who doesn't want to associate with me. I'm a fine person with high moral values, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I'm sorry if Doug's involvement led to any further problems for him, but these problems have been long-existing, and I don't know how he's tolerated them as long as he has.
I hope that Doug will change his mind about the website, as it's one of my daily stops (actually several times/day!) on the internet. While I haven't joined in on the recent contributions, I did make a hefty donation right before Doug took over.
My hat's off to Doug and to Vern, before him.
Darlene


----------



## LarryTheOutback

MO7Bs said:


> so don't come here and LEAVE US ALONE.


That's exactly the problem. They *won't *go away until they get their way; in real life we call them stalkers.

This has been weighing on Doug for some time now; I could tell more by what he didn't say than what he did say (for those who don't know him personally, Doug is very discreet). After reading Doug's posting I was speechless for a while but not surprised. Running an website like Outbackers is expensive and personally draining. Without accepting advertising or corporate sponsorship the expenses easily exceed the income (especially if you have to factor in legal defense regardless of the lack of merit on the part of other side).

Count me in. The 1% will not be allowed to rule. They may have won a battle but will ultimately lose the war.

Ed


----------



## Carey

LarryTheOutback said:


> so don't come here and LEAVE US ALONE.


That's exactly the problem. They *won't *go away until they get their way; in real life we call them stalkers.

This has been weighing on Doug for some time now; I could tell more by what he didn't say than what he did say (for those who don't know him personally, Doug is very discreet). After reading Doug's posting I was speechless for a while but not surprised. Running an website like Outbackers is expensive and personally draining. Without accepting advertising or corporate sponsorship the expenses easily exceed the income (especially if you have to factor in legal defense regardless of the lack of merit on the part of other side).

Count me in. The 1% will not be allowed to rule. They may have won a battle but will ultimately lose the war.

Ed
[/quote]

It doesnt exceed the income of of us as a group..

Pricipals have been threatend.....

When that happens people go to great lengths to repair this broken principal problem..

Like I said, they are outnumbered..

By the way Andy, your postings here rock... Really good stuff you said..

I agree with you Andy.... Pony up nay sayers!

Lets see those kahunas nay sayers...

Lets get this overwith.. I have forgivness in my heart....

Do you?

Carey


----------



## MJRey

I'm sorry to hear that Doug is having so many problems running this site. Years ago this site, the community and wealth of information was a deciding factor in purchasing an Outback over some other brands I was looking at. I knew I could find help and answers if I needed them. I have contributed and would be happy to pay more to keep the site alive.

I rarely go to RV.net or any other RV forum but that's because they are very large with many people and it just doesn't feel like a community. Also I like that this site is specific to my trailer and I am far more likely to get the answers I need here. I've noticed that when online forums get very large, people seem to feel annonymous and are more prone to being impolite. I thought that had been avoided so far here but I guess I missed what was going on.


----------



## Lmbevard

I just got done reading through all of this, I short changed into midnights tonight so have some time, and I too am sad that things came to this point. I have run a couple of websites before and know that it is a lot of time and work. I one point I even tried to set up a forum for one of the sites like this and know the work needed to get it up and running and on track. I had a few fights with others that thought it should be something else but held on to what I knew was right. So I can really feel for Doug and all of the moderators that have worked on this site.

There has been times that I did disagree with some of the topic take downs that happened in the past but I do understand the need to keep things friendly and avoid topics that causes heated discussions. Even though I disagreed with what was done, I also knew that it was done to stop things from getting ugly. I think the reason we did not see this coming was because of some quick take downs that Doug did to stop things from getting out of hand. If I really didn't like what was done, I would not still be here typing this note.

Like many others I have learned a lot from everyone here. I also am more than willing to share the limited knowledge I have with others. I don't know the ugliness that some have directed towards Doug and this site, but if the other sites have allowed this to go on, shame on them! Oviously they are not moderated with the care that Doug has given this Forum. I am a user of forums clear back to the usernet time and have seen how ugly people can get when they are on a site where they can remain safe from anything but further blastings from others. I am so sorry for you Doug that this has gone one so long.

I for one hope things can be worked out so that Outbackers.com remain active. I would really miss it and besides, I don't know how to take my Outbackers sticker off the side of the RV, so it has to stay around.

Thanks Doug for all the work!


----------



## Carey

I hadnt read Dougs new proposal.. I just did..

When I get homw you got my 100 bucks... If you need more than fine... Bubba says Principals carry no price tag.... I agree... You better keep that paid subcription link here Doug.. I wont be home till tuesday..

I use Comchecks and Cash out here.. I save myself prolly 40 bucks a week by paying cash while fueling. I dont have a credit card... Sent them all back.. When they tripled my interest rates I said Im done!

My debit card is left at home.. I have no need to carry credit cards out here.. Everything I do out here on the road is comcheck and cash.. That is the true truck driver way and thats how trucking and truck drivers are financed for 99% of us.. Comdata is our banks and our lives totally run thru it..

Anyway I hope I can still join on Tuesday..

I woke up this morning in a mood that is still very mad about this..

I must go put in my miles today..

Carey


----------



## Doxie-Doglover-Too

MO7Bs said:


> OK, I have the site. And my hunch has been confirmed....


Funny how life goes...

You get out of it what you give, these folks are in for some real bad times. It's so unfortunate that they can't see what they are doing to themselves.

There are so many euphamisms (sorry 'bout the spelling if it's not right) for the whole thing...

Karma
Reap what you sow
What goes around comes around
Paybacks a real ?????
God's gonna get ya for that
etc
etc

I would love to know their motivations for threating a lawsuit over an on-line forum. For heaven's sake folks, we are all just trying to help each other enjoy a common past-time. I work too hard at a real J.O.B. to have time to fight on-line too. Maybe these folks need a more rewarding full-time occupation or something, or maybe another hobby that's not so stressful and maybe then they will let us enjoy our well deserved free time.

Bottom line...if you don't like it here...find another forum...start another forum...stop clicking on your link to this website or typing the web address or change your homepage...if you need help, PM me, I'll give you the instructions. LEAVE US ALONE if you don't like the company. Do you go to a church where they practice a religion you don't agree with, or a bar that plays the wrong kind of music for you, or a beach that allows this or that activity that you don't enjoy, or to a country that has customs you don't care for? Most likely not, so don't come here and LEAVE US ALONE.

WOW...sorry folks...think I'm done...for now!

Paul
[/quote]

we could be OUTBACKERS COMMUNITY.COM( see Pauls signature)


----------



## MO7Bs

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> so don't come here and LEAVE US ALONE.


That's exactly the problem. They *won't *go away until they get their way; in real life we call them stalkers.

This has been weighing on Doug for some time now; I could tell more by what he didn't say than what he did say (for those who don't know him personally, Doug is very discreet). After reading Doug's posting I was speechless for a while but not surprised. Running an website like Outbackers is expensive and personally draining. Without accepting advertising or corporate sponsorship the expenses easily exceed the income (especially if you have to factor in legal defense regardless of the lack of merit on the part of other side).

Count me in. The 1% will not be allowed to rule. They may have won a battle but will ultimately lose the war.

Ed
[/quote]

It doesnt exceed the income of of us as a group..

Pricipals have been threatend.....

When that happens people go to great lengths to repair this broken principal problem..

Like I said, they are outnumbered..

By the way Andy, your postings here rock... Really good stuff you said..

I agree with you Andy.... Pony up nay sayers!

Lets see those kahunas nay sayers...

Lets get this overwith.. I have forgivness in my heart....

Do you?

Carey

[/quote]

I forgive those that would do me or my COMMUNITY (on-line or otherwise) harm. I welcome them into my COMMUNITY as productive members, but when they threaten the safety or stability of my COMMUNITY, they must be sanctioned. This is how it is in real life and the world of internet forums is no different.


----------



## Doxie-Doglover-Too

Doxie-Doglover-Too said:


> 1590 reviews
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and it's soooo obvious this place has tremendous support


I go to bed and get up to 2402 views! amazing. I am surely those that are responsible for this mess are reading. Their rotten little cores must be glowing with pride knowing that have caused agony for many people and hurt a wonderful human being and his family. 
Listen up, Doug is a big boy and has weathered the storm and made a decision based on what is right for his family, but please you nay sayers and trouble makers and lawsuit threateners....how do you justify what you have caused in his own family? do you sleep well?


----------



## Acadia Hiker

Wow. I don't know what to say other than I will do whatever I can to keep this going. I've learned far too much to let this go.

There is a plugin for Firefox called 'Morning Coffee' that allows you to click one icon and all of your favorite sites open in separate tabs. Outbackers is the last tab I read in the morning. After all, you save the best for last...


----------



## jnk36jnk

MO7Bs said:


> OK, I have the site. And my hunch has been confirmed....


There are so many euphamisms (sorry 'bout the spelling if it's not right) for the whole thing...

Karma
Reap what you sow
What goes around comes around
Paybacks a real ?????
God's gonna get ya for that
etc

Paul
[/quote]

Amen to this. If I could I would put a curse on that 1%! Count us in Jim (as you know by the previous PM). We have no expertise in computer stuff but are certainly willing to do whatever is necessary to keep this family alive.

Dean & Jodi


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## campingnut18

No matter where you are or where you go there will be those that will find fault and try to disrupt things to prove a point. Most of the issues have been very petty and have gotten blown out of proportion. Some of them just fade away, some leave in a huff but some keep coming back and poking things with a sharp stick. That last group for the moment will be left nameless unless some of them who are still here want to pony up and take a little credit for the havoc they have wrought.

The worst part is they think they can make things better by doing the things they do but they know in their heart this failure is their work.
[/quote]

well andy im not affraid to say it.. this group(outbackers.com) blames the southeast for what went on. last year someone banned for comments on another site.
well, when did freedom of speach not become free. they got mad and banned him 10 days before the biggest rally this site has ever had.
so people got mad , went to the other site ..and yes did say somethings. 
so what, they have that right as americans. land of the free.. just get over it.. get a back bone people..

i had nothing to do with anything more than trying to get this member back on the site he loved so much.
i for one will not pay a dime to this site or anyothers. i know it cost to keep a site running.
sell things on the site to make money. dont charge your members.

we will still have rallys with or without this site. i will still have the friends ive met from here years down the road.
i will not be a member here if things dont change.
lamar


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## Moosegut

I keep coming back and reading the new posts in this thread. I look at the bottom of the page and I see MORE people looking at this thread at the same time than I have EVER seen on any other thread - even the plane and conveyor belt. Oops! Sorry, I shouldn't have resurrected that one.









The thing that particularly strikes me at this moment is - many, if not most, of the names I'm seeing are people I consider friends even though I have only met a handful of them. And I am so saddened and angry that my community of friends is threatened right now. I hope this will become a rallying point that we can use to press on and keep outbackers alive somehow.

Over the, almost four years I have been a member, there are a lot of people I have come to really like and enjoy - their advice, their expertise, their wit and humor, etc. Some people I've seen with one or two of these traits, others I've seen with all: never-the-less, all valued for their different perspectives and input.

For the most part, this is a safe place where people rarely, if ever get flamed - and if they do, a stop is put to it very quickly. And I think that was the problem - the flamers got their noses bent out of shape. Some people can't see or admit when they are wrong - or even if they are not wrong - that they have to stop anyway. In hindsight - we should have just shut them down and out immediately and completely if they were told and ignored the telling.

Over my tenure there have been some threads I got involved in where I got a bit opinionated and boisterous - and a couple of times I may have crossed the line. I was called up short once or twice by a moderator or two - again, people I consider friends. But all the time feeling we had something special here. At 6'5" and just shy of 300 pounds, I don't want to get all touchy-feely and mushy here, but we REALLY do have a special place at outbackers. I hate to even think about the prospect of not sneaking peeks at work - well, okay, LONG peeks.

It's time for a group hug (for us guys, we can put in a few chickie-buffers if need be) and for all of us to band together with whatever support we can give. As I said previously, things are tight right now (kid in college, another in private HS) but I am more than willing to pay a membership fee or donate dollars to keep this "special place" going.

Jim, as you are spearheading this, whatever you need me to do, let me know - money, letter writing, nose busting (I'm really a pussy cat but nobody needs to know that) - whatever. I hope we can pull this off.


----------



## mikenkristipa

I just got done reading thru This thread and I reas Doug's post yesterday afternoon. I have to say that I am very unhappy about all of this.

Doug - I have not been on Outbackers for as long as some of the other members, so I really have no idea what you are going thru. The threads that have dissappeared - I agreed, they were topics that may have torn people apart - not bring people together (ex: political threads). That being said - you and the Moderators had a philosophy as to what you wanted in this site and stuck to it. My hats off to you for that. I have met people thru this site and will continue to meet more people at the rally in Gettysburg and beyond.It would be a real shame to see this site go away. Not to mention the ideas for Mods, problem solving and general discussions that I have enjoyed and benefitted from thru this site. There are only two sites that I go to just about every day and this is one of them.

I was ready to make the Charter member committment, and almost did back when you first proposed the Koala Club. If it will help keep the site going and I can help in any way COUNT ME IN!

Mike


----------



## tdvffjohn

Freedom of speech means a gov,t agency can t go after you for saying something )except in a few rare instances, such as yelling fire in a movie theatre, threatening, etc.)

Freedom of speech allows you to say what you want. However it does not protect you from the consequences. Being fired from a radio station, being ostrasized for your comments being critisized for what you said, etc

Being allowed to post here has nothing to do with freedom of speech, BTW, the owner allows us to post here under rules that we agreed to when joining. Tossing for breaking the rules could be the punishment.

I ve seen many a people thrown out of campgrounds for rules infractions. I ve seen employees fired for constantly berating and insulting the boss and his business. Freedom of speech, yup, consequences in a privately owned sector, yup.


----------



## Nathan

Exactly John!!!

We all make decisions in how to live. I don't have freedom of speech at work. I do however follow the rules and therefore still have a job!


----------



## NJMikeC

Sayonara said:


> Does anyone have any good suggestions for links that can help teach us the details on how to run a forum?


Yes

Essentially as in everyting it is in the management. I posted something very similar years ago and well look where we are today.

Don't make sites that create exclusive "pay for clubs". Got a business to run, run it, but are some peoples money or contributions more valuable then the value of the members posts from so many years past? I see that in direct contrast of what the owner said he wanted in the first place.

Also, and above all realize that the internet is really public domain so "restriction" is really a false hope. Sure you own the server but lock it down with restrictions and you defeat the very essense of being in the public domain. It would make it far easier on the mangement and the moderators. Plenty of "dark side" forums that exist complete with in-approriate language you name it yet they aint' throwing in the towel. They get on with it, make money with it, they keep plugging away. Actually when posts are left open other members serve to "cleanse the scum". Go to any car or truck forum and you will see that at work anyday, everday. Besides there is a limit to being negative. Most just reach it then go away. Maybe if a site made more money and there was something in it for folks they would grow a thicker skin.

Long before there were exclusive clubs there were members who provided value. Now there are exclusive clubs , exclusive talk, and exclusive threads about what nobody knows but are clearly of little value to only those who are taking part in those jokes. For the years that I have been hear I have seen the value to RV'ing in this place go right down the tubes. So few of those who provided that value post anymore. Why is that? I have my thoughts but maybe we should hear from those who no longer provide that value. You might get to the root of the problem.

An example sums this all up for me. Look in the site rules at #19. Did you all post your pictures and warrant exclusive right to the owner of this forum? Since the internet is so putrid with scum and that security is paramount don't you think that you should have the right at least to edit your photos or delete them? Do you entrust the management of this site with them forever?

It is public domain, realize that, take the appropriate pre-cautions and get on with it.


----------



## Scottyfish

....And I should have a driver's license for free and vehicle registration for free because it allows me to use and drive on public roads.

Listen, not everything in life is for free. You can almost bet that most everyone here has had to pay to be a part of a club, union, roadside service, etc. I, for one, detest some of the other sites I used to frequent that are now covered in advertisement. This site (Outbackers.com) was purchased by someone, and that person has the right to turn it in any direction he wishes. Many have already said it, but if you disagree with the rules here, then go somewhere else. If you do not like the laws of a State, then move to another. If you disagree with the governing laws of our Country, there are plenty others to move to as well.

I have said this before in another thread. It is easy to argue and toss up your opinions on the internet where you have plenty of time to put together your thoughts as creatively as necessary. It is another story when you have to face someone in the flesh. We are not so quick to challenge each other when there may be consequences outside of a verbal return. On many a forum, folks have built up their "cyber-importance" when they cannot do so in the "real" world.


----------



## tdvffjohn

well andy im not affraid to say it.. this group(outbackers.com) blames the southeast for what went on. last year someone banned for comments on another site.
well, when did freedom of speach not become free. they got mad and banned him 10 days before the biggest rally this site has ever had.
so people got mad , went to the other site ..and yes did say somethings. 
so what, they have that right as americans. land of the free.. just get over it.. get a back bone people..

So everyone can see what was said, how about providing a link to the comments and everyone can decide for themselves whether to get over it.


----------



## SmkSignals

Scottyfish said:


> ....And I should have a driver's license for free and vehicle registration for free because it allows me to use and drive on public roads.
> 
> Listen, not everything in life is for free. You can almost bet that most everyone here has had to pay to be a part of a club, union, roadside service, etc. I, for one, detest some of the other sites I used to frequent that are now covered in advertisement. This site (Outbackers.com) was purchased by someone, and that person has the right to turn it in any direction he wishes. Many have already said it, but if you disagree with the rules here, then go somewhere else. If you do not like the laws of a State, then move to another. If you disagree with the governing laws of our Country, there are plenty others to move to as well.
> 
> I have said this before in another thread. It is easy to argue and toss up your opinions on the internet where you have plenty of time to put together your thoughts as creatively as necessary. It is another story when you have to face someone in the flesh. We are not so quick to challenge each other when there may be consequences outside of a verbal return. On many a forum, folks have built up their "cyber-importance" when they cannot do so in the "real" world.


Well said Scottyfish.

Also, could someone PM this other site that is so secretive. They are obviously not promoting it very well because I have goggled everything I can think of and cannot find another Outback forum site. Thanks !!


----------



## CamperAndy

campingnut18 said:


> i will not be a member here if things dont change.
> lamar


No one has asked you to stay that I know of. No one not even Doug is being asked to stay if it is not a place he wants to be and at the moment the group that wants Doug out is starting to talk but still none have really come up and did the old Limbaugh and said I want this administration to fail.

Lamar do you want to be the first to raise your hand?


----------



## wolfwood

*Scottyfish*...I NEED TO MEET YOU!!!

*tdvffjohn*...you are absolutely correct. "Freedom of Speech" (and MANY other concepts which others quote) have no meaning on the Internet. What DOES have meaning is that the owner of a site - and currently there is only 1 - has the absolute, undeniable right to do whatever he sees fit and to run HIS site however he chooses (within Federal Law, that is). WE have the "right" to stay or leave. If we stay, we are obliged to follow the rules of the site - WHATEVER THEY MAY BE and however they are communicated.

...and I have only one thing to say to some of you (you know exactly who you are) - *GO AWAY! LEAVE!* _PLEASE_!! If your beef is personal - keep it personal and respect the rest of the membership here. People's kids read this site - is this the lesson they should be learning? If you think you've accomplished something, well maybe you have. You've corroded the spirit here and broken our trust in your decency. Go ahead - chest bump, high five, lift your beer mugs, do whatever makes you feel like you won. But like a player who scores a point by cheating, you know you haven't. Mutual respect and civility will take the day, and nothing you can do will stop that.

So here's to those who will fight for this site, and adieu to those who want to tear it down for whatever reason. Our community is whole and will stay that way. We just have a few bumps to maneuver around at the moment.


----------



## BritsOnTour

We would be so sad to see Outbackers disappear.

Yes, we have made many wonderful friends here, people we would never have met otherwise and will absolutely still keep in touch with them, with or without Outbackers.

We agree that yes, it is 'just a website', however, it's a website with great information. We all know that if we post a question or info request, we get answers almost instantaneously! I especially love all the campground information that has been given over the years, it has really helped us reserve some great sites, my plan was to refer to that info for reserving sites for our long trip, guess I'll have to spend some time going through posts in the next month! Dave regularly pops in to get info and ideas on different mods.

I know some people are anti the 'exclusivity' of paying but we feel that a $20 membership for a year is fine. If that provides the owner with a profit, that's OK by us, he has the hassles of maintaining and upkeeping the site, why shouldn't he get something out of it? We haven't become a member of the Koala club because we were fine just continuing to read and post but if paying membership was the only option to stay on the site, we'd do it. I'm sure there is a core group who feel the same way.

We are members on another site but certainly are not anti-Outbackers by any stretch of the imagination.

We do hope that these issues are resolved and are saddened to hear that there are potential legal problems.

Ali


----------



## Carey

Well apparantly Doug had some instinct and forthought NJMike..

He can no longer own the site with what is happening... Its still free, just needs group ownership... As a group we can shoot down any bs because it will again become affordable to do so.. Right now to shoot down the BS it will break him...

It needs to become a group owned site, because of legalities and soforth from unhappy people..

Its being forced to become group owned..

I'm gonna pony up... Why not you..

Dont worry Mike, the savior is coming... The savior is those who would like to take on the BS as a group... I bet more of us are in than out.. A lawyer will be cheap this way... Many pages are on hard drives... They may as well give up now... They are vastly out numbered.

Carey


----------



## Nathan

so now the ugly truth raises it's head. I wish that those who think its ''ok" or a "right" to belittle people who do not agree with them should go away. Make your oun site and leave us alone!

I could Say alot more, but then I would become one of you, and I won't let that happen!


----------



## hyewalt34

As a long time member I can say that this is one of the greatest forums I have ever seen. Like most of you, I check in several times every day. When I have something to say, I say it and I am getting close to 500 posts! Doug, thank you so much for all your work. If there is a small group that wants Outbackers.com to be something else, well that's just too bad. All of US like it just the way it is. I have bragged countless times about Outbackers over the years. What other forum will you feel and share the grief of a members death like we have here? Everyone, lets stick together on this and Doug, my Outbacker friend, keep your head up and hang in there!

Walter - Proudly Member 313


----------



## NJMikeC

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Well apparantly Doug had some instinct and forthought NJMike..
> 
> I'm gonna pony up... Why not you..
> 
> Carey


Carey,

I'm not going to Pony up because I don't believe in a pay for site. I stand by my thoughts on exclusivity, public domain, etc, etc. Millions of sites out there do pay for it via marketing. Some time ago, a long time ago I would have contributed to a cause that got money coming in by making phone calls myself. Clearly not the direction of the management so I can't say I would volunteer again unless of course the managment and direction are changed. We all can have our opinions right?

I have always felt that with a membership like this we should reap benefits via campground discounts, etc just like I get discount auto parts on those other forums that I most often frequent. To me that is a perfect world! I pay via contributing value in what I write and I get benefits in the form of discounts on products I need and the management gets their cut.

Frankly I feel it a dis-service to this membership that we are not offered that opportunity which of course was part of the essence of my first reply. Pay to pay, nothings free, etc, etc.

I believe that is far more the root cause of this then some vigilant messages.

I am a member on the other site, Reverie is a moderator here and at the other site and Doug did see fit to make him a Moderator here likely knowing he was a moderator on the other site. So I ask, how far are we taking this tar and feather party?


----------



## Carey

NJMikeC said:


> Well apparantly Doug had some instinct and forthought NJMike..
> 
> He can no longer own the site with what is happening... Its still free, just needs group ownership... As a group we can shoot down any bs because it will again become affordable to do so.. Right now to shoot down the BS it will break him...
> 
> It needs to become a group owned site, because of legalities and soforth from unhappy people..
> 
> Its being forced to become group owned..
> 
> I'm gonna pony up... Why not you..
> 
> Dont worry Mike, the savior is coming... The savior is those who would like to take on the BS as a group... I bet more of us are in than out.. A lawyer will be cheap this way... Many pages are on hard drives... They may as well give up now... They are vastly out numbered.
> 
> Carey


[/quote]

You forgot to type something.....

Your point?


----------



## CamperAndy

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Well apparantly Doug had some instinct and forthought NJMike..
> 
> He can no longer own the site with what is happening... Its still free, just needs group ownership... As a group we can shoot down any bs because it will again become affordable to do so.. Right now to shoot down the BS it will break him...
> 
> It needs to become a group owned site, because of legalities and soforth from unhappy people..
> 
> Its being forced to become group owned..
> 
> I'm gonna pony up... Why not you..
> 
> Dont worry Mike, the savior is coming... The savior is those who would like to take on the BS as a group... I bet more of us are in than out.. A lawyer will be cheap this way... Many pages are on hard drives... They may as well give up now... They are vastly out numbered.
> 
> Carey


[/quote]

You forgot to type something.....

Your point?
[/quote]

It was a post error I am sure, he is still typing.


----------



## Carey

CamperAndy said:


> Well apparantly Doug had some instinct and forthought NJMike..
> 
> He can no longer own the site with what is happening... Its still free, just needs group ownership... As a group we can shoot down any bs because it will again become affordable to do so.. Right now to shoot down the BS it will break him...
> 
> It needs to become a group owned site, because of legalities and soforth from unhappy people..
> 
> Its being forced to become group owned..
> 
> I'm gonna pony up... Why not you..
> 
> Dont worry Mike, the savior is coming... The savior is those who would like to take on the BS as a group... I bet more of us are in than out.. A lawyer will be cheap this way... Many pages are on hard drives... They may as well give up now... They are vastly out numbered.
> 
> Carey


[/quote]

You forgot to type something.....

Your point?
[/quote]

It was a post error I am sure, he is still typing.
[/quote]

LMFAO!


----------



## Scoutr2

Count me in! I'm waiting to see what happens, but I can keep on contributing to help things along.

Mike


----------



## Bookin' It

We joined the forum in February of '08 before we purchsed our RSS 25 and have learned so much from other members. We've made very useful and functional modifications to our trailer as a direct result of what we've found on the site. Not understanding exactly how any of the ownership or moderation works, we're so disappointed to learn of the difficulties that Doug has experienced. We've recommended the site to numerous campers we've met on the trips we've taken with our little Outback. I haven't been on the site for awhile so was more than surprised to read Doug's post this afternoon. I knew nothing of the Koala Club but had been thinking I needed to write a check in support of the site. If more knowledgeable members can keep this up and going, we'll do what we can to help even if we _are_ Easterners (though what that has to do with anything, I don't know).


----------



## Scoutr2

H2oSprayer said:


> Who's with me?











[/quote]

X2!
















Mike


----------



## malibutay

You know I bought a Trailer Life mag the other day and it was the size of a panflet. I think I payed $6 for it and got about .001% out of it compared to what I get from this site for free.  I haven't met 1 of you but I feel I know most of you. I am willing to help and dont think a pay or fee site is a bad idea as it would probably keep away those that dont contribute positively anyway. I like this site and would like to stay no matter what the majority decides.


----------



## ember

To Doug I say Thank you, and being a business owner I entirely understand your decision and appreciate that it was not an easy one.

To Jim I say We will continue to support Outbackers as we have in the past. Our time, our funds and our computer abilities are limited, but we will do what we can on all fronts.


----------



## Scottyfish

Some of you are still missing the point: This site is clean! No ads! It boots up quickly when you type in the URL or click on a link within the site. Just take some time to visit some other sites that have ads. They are slow and distracting, and it s*cks!

I do not want a campground discount as part of the membership deal. How could we all possibly agree on what camprounds (KOA, Thousand Trails, etc) we would strike a deal with, especialy when we cannot agree on this ownership/rules topic. Sign up for Good Sam if you want a discount. You can join for as little as $10 if you hold out long enough. AAA provides hotel/motel/campground discounts if you are comfortable becoming a "member" of their organization. I would like to see the site exist as it does now. If you want to support it financially, then great. If you do not, you can still post, lurk, etc.

This is all getting terribly ridiculous.


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## Java Hounds

And it would be a shame for the site to close before I take the time to learn how to post pictures!









We're in!

Beth & Brian


----------



## Oregon_Camper

Just so everyone understands my point of view on this. I want to make it clear on how (if I'm part of the group that takes this over) I would run this site

1 - Swift banning of repeat offenders of the rules. I'll give you a 2nd chance..but not a 3rd.

2 - I will update the Rules of the forum to be VERY clear on what the sites owns (posting/pictures/etc). Once posted...it is ours. You can request we delete something, but it is NOT your right to have it removed. Once the new rules are in place, EVERY user that comes to the site after they have been posted, will be forced to the new site with the rule and will have to agree to the T&C's. If not...goodbye. If they decide the new rules are not acceptable, then I will try to (don't know the limits of the software) remove all of their current pictures. I think people deserve the right to make a decision based on new rules. After you accept, you will be bound by the new T&C's (Terms and Conditions)

3 - Advertisement. I know everyone hates it, but I will be 100% in favor of bringing in some outside revenue. I see the top banner becoming an ad from say Keystone...Camping World...etc. I am NOT made of money, nor have I won the lottery, so I need this site to pay for itself. That can be from a combo of ads and user donations.

4 - For those that have met me, know I am a no nonsense (not that Doug is) type of person. I see the need to change...I do it. Sometimes that might be a harsh change, but it will be for the good.

5 - Having said all that, I want to KEEP the essence of this site...the PEOPLE. We all have shared stories of our camping adventures and our family's ups and down. We are here for each other and I am committed to keeping that "family" feel to this site.

So there it is....


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## hyewalt34

Well said and by the way, somehow I missed out on the Koala Club so if it gets going again I need to know.

Walter


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## TnFamily

Well I have been reading everything so I guess it's time to give my two cents. This website has been very valuable to me in researching my choice of trailer and Tv, and the advice I get from either direct response to questions or from just reading old posts has also been a great help to me. I don't want to see this end. So you have my support on keeping the site going.

Ed

p.s. The site can't go away, my wife got me and outbackers.com hat for my birthday! I don't want to have to explain to people what my hat used to stand for....LOLOL.


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## H2oSprayer

Really boys and girls?

Hey moderators, how much of this are we going to tolerate?

From the OP original post:



Oregon_Camper said:


> I'm not one for sitting around hoping things work out. I'm telling everyone here, right now, I'm on board with the idea of taking part the group ownership of this site.
> 
> Who's with me?


Within that quoted statement I didn't read nor have I read from the OP, a request changing the direction of this thread from asking for help to keep the site active to a topic of bashing and blaming. I agree that I would love to see this forum continue, but not only continue, flourish. I for one will do what ever I can to see that happen.

Not only am I saddened by the news, but also saddened and a bit ashamed of the direction of this thread.

I see that the OP has attempted to pull in the reins of this thread a few posts above this one, can we please try to keep it on topic?


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## fourwalls

I have never been to a rally nor have I ever met any of you. But I feel like my family is part of this family. I have asked for info and help on several subjects and always had an answer in short amount of time. I belong to several different forums and this is the one I check in on several times a day. I feel this forum is a close nit group. I hope that all the issues can be worked out. I would be up to jump in and help any way I can to keep it going. Please feel free to PM me to keep me posted. And thanks to all the people who have helped me with issues on our TV, Fiver, TT, And even on my search for long lost family in the Oregon area.


----------



## CamperAndy

H2oSprayer said:


> Not only am I saddened by the news, but also saddened and a bit ashamed of the direction of this thread.


Then you would not want to be part of the forum that would happen if the 1% got their way.


----------



## H2oSprayer

CamperAndy said:


> Not only am I saddened by the news, but also saddened and a bit ashamed of the direction of this thread.


Then you would not want to be part of the forum that would happen if the 1% got their way.
[/quote]

I guess I'll have to take your word on that as nothing about what was going on has been made public. Besides, if I chose not to be part of that forum, then I simply would not log on. Sorry for being a bit off topic here, simply answering the posted thought.


----------



## CamperAndy

H2oSprayer said:


> Not only am I saddened by the news, but also saddened and a bit ashamed of the direction of this thread.


Then you would not want to be part of the forum that would happen if the 1% got their way.
[/quote]

I guess I'll have to take your word on that as nothing about what was going on has been made public. Besides, if I chose not to be part of that forum, then I simply would not log on. Sorry for being a bit off topic here, simply answering the posted thought.
[/quote]

You see that is the point there are too many people that want Outbackers to stay the way it is but this 1% think we restrict freedom of speech and arbitraily enforce rules. They want more of an anything goes forum where the inmates rule the insane asylum. They have that already but they don't like that Outbackers is not that way. I wish they would accept it for what it is and just not log on but Doug let some slide far too long and now that he is bumping members they took it to the the extreme.

You are a fire fighter, so how would you feel if someone threatened to sue you or your house for something they thought you should do but didn't because they do not agree with your rules on approaching a fire.


----------



## mike

As others have said, it seems that there are "others" out there that are unhappy. I have camped with some of the "others" and found them to be good people with strong opionions about how outbackers should be run. Some also are unhappy and like to stir the pot. I also have told friends about the site. The one thing we like is that it is a pretty clean site. We started on rv.net and they do things different. Not bad, just different. The s.e. people do things different not bad just different. Pointing Blame, generally causes more bad feelings, and I believe being an outbacker is about good feelings. I have made great friendships with people and I am saddened with barbs being thrown. Lamar was great last year at topsail. He is not a bad person. I may disagree with him about his views on the site, but that does not make him anti-outbacker. There are some out there that when told to stop continue and I believe that causes problems.

On another note, with regards to discounts, with the help of Doug we were able to negotiate a discount on a tire pressure monitoring system. What most people don't know is the amount of time and research that went into that. I honestly did'nt know what was involved. Doug was instrumental in guiding me through a process never tried on outbackers before. He never asked for a kickback or extra funds. My plan was after the tpms system deal was over was to post a thread that if u saved sixty dollars, why not throw ten to the site. My Idea, not Dougs. DOUG NEVER ASKED FOR A DIME!! He also spent a few hours guiding me threw some legalize.

What I would hope is that those who are unhappy might express themselves in a postive manner and accept what the site rules are. It might clear some things up for those not directly involved to hear both sides.

Anyway to my s.e. friends, we look forward to seeing u in a couple of weeks.

One last thing, I will support this site 100%. The reason I gave money is I have benifited way more that the 100 dollars that I contributed. This site is worth much more to us. I also understand the hardships that people have in this economy. I gave because I can and I felt it was the right thing to do. I would never treat someone differently because they did not give or could not. To us outbacking is a state of mind not the size of ur tt, tv, or wallet.


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## Scottyfish

Jim,

If you do take all of or part of the lead and you choose to bring in ads, here is a suggestion. Another site that I used to frequent for Ford Diesel trucks changed its format a few years ago by bringing in multiple ads (top, sidebar, bottom, you name it). However, if you purchase a premium membership, the ads go away. For those that have purchased into the Koala Club, perhaps this option can be offerred. My current thoughts dictate that since I have bought it, and the ads are brought in to cover costs, then the membership should be refunded. Unless, of course, the ads go away if you "buy" in. I really enjoy the "cleanliness" of this site and appreciate the fact that am not barraged with advertisements left and right.

Take it for what it is worth.....


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## Ridgway-Rangers

I PM'ed Doug just a few weeks ago and thanked him for this site. I told him how nice it was to be able to have my son read any post, over my shoulder with out worrying about what was posted. I gave money to this site with no strings attached. My posts were no more important that someone ho had been on the site for 2 days. I did not get a fancy new hat or even an Outbackers spare tire cover.

I want this site to continue. I am willing to pay to have this site continue. I will help any way I can.

I think we as Outbackers need to move forward. No more finger pointing. The rules are for everyone obey them or leave. We need to agree that the philosophy that started this forum and kept it going is the philosophy needed to keep it going. I will do what ever I can to do that.

The only finger pointing I will do is to those individuals that have been so helpful to me and everyone, the moderators and especially anyone who ever gave advise ideas to an Outbacker in need.

Thank you all,
Brian


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## tdvffjohn

Actually with the real possibility of the site closing in a few weeks, its not really about finger pointing. Its about facts.Some have complained that they are not allowed to express there views on whats wrong with this site. They don t have 'freedom'. Here it is, open dialogue.

The part that I am most proud of about this community is that nothing to my knowledge has had to be moderated in this topic. It has remained civil.

John


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## Nathan

I'm with Jim (and Doug!)!!! If I wanted anarchy, I'd post elsewhere.











Oregon_Camper said:


> Just so everyone understands my point of view on this. I want to make it clear on how (if I'm part of the group that takes this over) I would run this site
> 
> 1 - Swift banning of repeat offenders of the rules. I'll give you a 2nd chance..but not a 3rd.
> 
> 2 - I will update the Rules of the forum to be VERY clear on what the sites owns (posting/pictures/etc). Once posted...it is ours. You can request we delete something, but it is NOT your right to have it removed. Once the new rules are in place, EVERY user that comes to the site after they have been posted, will be forced to the new site with the rule and will have to agree to the T&C's. If not...goodbye. If they decide the new rules are not acceptable, then I will try to (don't know the limits of the software) remove all of their current pictures. I think people deserve the right to make a decision based on new rules. After you accept, you will be bound by the new T&C's (Terms and Conditions)
> 
> 3 - Advertisement. I know everyone hates it, but I will be 100% in favor of bringing in some outside revenue. I see the top banner becoming an ad from say Keystone...Camping World...etc. I am NOT made of money, nor have I won the lottery, so I need this site to pay for itself. That can be from a combo of ads and user donations.
> 
> 4 - For those that have met me, know I am a no nonsense (not that Doug is) type of person. I see the need to change...I do it. Sometimes that might be a harsh change, but it will be for the good.
> 
> 5 - Having said all that, I want to KEEP the essence of this site...the PEOPLE. We all have shared stories of our camping adventures and our family's ups and down. We are here for each other and I am committed to keeping that "family" feel to this site.
> 
> So there it is....


----------



## usmc03

Wow is all I can say. I have found this site an invaluable tool. I am a webmaster for a non-profit that has seen its share of issues also. We had a splinter group that went there own way, not before causing damage to the membership. Things like this can be overcome and it will the banding together of the members. Things do and will cost money and one person can not be held accountable. I think Doug has done an outstanding job and should be commended.

I to hope this stays around as I won't be able to get free advice OB specific anywhere else. I will be happy to help out if I can and I stress I am no expert by any means. I am involved with a Marine Corps Forum as an administrator and a web master for others. All these things are a team effort and from what I have read, there is more than enough interest to keep this alive. Lets not let it go down without a fight.


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## ED_RN

I too hope this site will remain up and running. A few points:

1. It is very refreshing to be able log onto a site like this one and not be bombarded by ads. In order for that to continue it will take money. I am not a tech person by any means but understand there are costs for electricty, servers, internet connection, maintenance and other items involved in keeping the forum open. No one has ever asked for a specific amount from anyone to join this forum. I get a benefit from this so I make a donation. Those that feel they shouldn't have to pay don't have to but sites like this will go away if everyone feels that way. Someone else is not going to continue to foot the bill or advertising will have to placed on the site.

2. If you don't like the rules you don't have to log on. Start your own forum with your own rules.

3.You don't have to post pic's here you can post them in photobucket or some other site any simply rpovide a link.

4. It is unfortunate but someone does have to moderate and sometimes censure content. An example; We have a website for our local youth soccer program. Kids use the site to check thier teams standing, look at scores of other teams they have freinds on, check their teams schedule and veiw pictures posted from the last weeks games. Some one hacked the site and posted porn on the site one Friday night. It was thankfull caught in the early hours of the morning, the site taken down and the porn removed. What if someone wasn't watching?

I too can't provide much technical support but will help in any other way to keep this forum going so 99% of us can continue to enjoy and benefit.


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## thefulminator

Call me clueless..........

I have been a member for almost two years. Due to how busy my schedule is there are periods when I really don't have to time to check out the forums. When I do have the time or I need information, I come here first. I may not have thousands of posts to my credit, but I try to help those with questions when I can. Everyone that I have dealt with has been friendly, courteous and most of all, eager to help. If it weren't for this community I probably would not have purchased an Outback last June.

That being said, I haven't been to the forums for a few weeks and was shocked to see Doug's post today. I had no knowledge of the troubles caused by the few at the expense of the many, the other web sites involved or that there was such a thing as the Koala Club. If I had known about the Koala Club charter memberships I probably would have jumped on it.

I know this is repeating what others have said but I just don't understand the whole situation. I've always had the view that I have an opinion and you have an opinion and that it's alright if they are not the same. I don't care what political bent you have, what religion you belong to or what you do or don't eat as long as we are civil to each other. If I don't try to convert you and you don't try to convert me then all is right with the world. I'm not going to question your mental capabilities or morals just because we disagree. This is what "community" is all about. From Merriam-Weber's "an interacting population of various kinds of individuals". We agree that we can disagree.

I have just tried to read the entire (10) pages of this post without missing anything which is pretty much impossible. I would appreciate it if someone would give, in a nutshell, where it all stands. Is there active movement towards new ownership? What is the status of the Koala Club? Can I still join and if so at what level? Will the number of charger memberships be increase due to the apparent interest in them?

Whatever happens, thanks to Doug for all that he has done and feel pity for those who had to ruin it.


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## clarkely

Scottyfish said:


> Would anyone mind PM'ing me this "other" site? I would like to do some research into this whole topic.


X2....I am confident it is not rv.net..............i believe i have found it........... message me for what i have found...........as i try to figure this all out and add some educated insight............i have saw some of the other comments......I simply dismissed them..........I do not get easily excited...but when i get mad i am mad...........I am mad right now...........trying to take it all in.

Wow what a difference a day makes!!

I am dumbfounded by all this...you think you have found community...............and there are people on there saying negative things that have helped me........ and they never recruited.......maybe i am not good enough................I came here and was happy to find a place with out negativity............ difference of opinion is fine.........sharing it with respect to your fellow man/womankind is what is important.

I do not want to see this place go!! I would like to be involved in keeping it up and going..................I also believe there are two sides to every story, no hard feelings doug.....i do not know enough of the subject.....and quite frankly damage is done so there is no sense in perpetuating it. I do believe "hatchets" need to be burried!!

I could give a Rats A about what was!! Focus needs to be on what will be!! I am searching out the information, with no intent to take a side.....but rather to be informed and insightful to learn from what has happened to move forward with insight to handle these situations as they present them self in the future.

I will add more later as I discern this all.............sorry if above sounds like ramblings.......lots of interuptions here....nice day out.....

Clarke


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## huntr70

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Well apparantly Doug had some instinct and forthought NJMike..
> 
> He can no longer own the site with what is happening... Its still free, just needs group ownership... As a group we can shoot down any bs because it will again become affordable to do so.. Right now to shoot down the BS it will break him...
> 
> It needs to become a group owned site, because of legalities and soforth from unhappy people..
> 
> Its being forced to become group owned..
> 
> I'm gonna pony up... Why not you..
> 
> Dont worry Mike, the savior is coming... The savior is those who would like to take on the BS as a group... I bet more of us are in than out.. A lawyer will be cheap this way... Many pages are on hard drives... They may as well give up now... They are vastly out numbered.
> 
> Carey


My question is...............why was this not done when Vern sold the site??

Because none of you were around then to experience it. No one even knew the site was for sale until the new ownership was announced...........

I really do pity all you newer people who never got to experience the original Outbackers......


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## Nathan

huntr70 said:


> My question is...............why was this not done when Vern sold the site??
> 
> Because none of you were around then to experience it. No one even knew the site was for sale until the new ownership was announced...........


Ahh, yes, back to the belief that a privately owned entity is a democracy.


----------



## huntr70

Nathan said:


> huntr70 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My question is...............why was this not done when Vern sold the site??
> 
> Because none of you were around then to experience it. No one even knew the site was for sale until the new ownership was announced...........
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh, yes, back to the belief that a privately owned entity is a democracy.
Click to expand...

Just repeating what was stated above..............what is proposed now.


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## clarkely

Nathan said:


> huntr70 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My question is...............why was this not done when Vern sold the site??
> 
> Because none of you were around then to experience it. No one even knew the site was for sale until the new ownership was announced...........
> 
> I really do pity all you newer people who never got to experience the original Outbackers......
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh, yes, back to the belief that a privately owned entity is a democracy.
Click to expand...

Well I wasn't around when Vern Owned it.............but ultimately since He owned it, It was a private held interest...and thus he could sell it and do as he saw fit to do.....as Doug can do now as he owns it.

Vern did not have to tel anyone he was selling it.............Doug could've shut the doors and turned out the lights........

Personally I think the whole thing is childish and got carried away....from what i have found in my searching........

I give Doug "an atta boy" he reached his breaking point on the whole mess.....regardless of what you or i or anyone else thinks.......His breaking point was reached..........end of that story...........Instead of turning the lights out......he has outlined what appears to be a thought out process for the continuation of the site............he even went as far as to say he might have gotten emotional and in the sense of "community" a Board could be formed to relegate him of having to decide on his own.....Sign of a Smart Man..........as a business owner myself (and a controlling person







) one has to look in at themselves...........identify ones own shortcomings. He clearly wants it to continue.he clearly wants to be involved. He clearly wants the responsibility of the [email protected]%^ to be dealt with by the community.

Times change things change ......people don't Lets put it together and all get along!!

Clarke


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## clarkely

tdvffjohn said:


> Freedom of speech means a gov,t agency can t go after you for saying something )except in a few rare instances, such as yelling fire in a movie theatre, threatening, etc.)
> 
> Freedom of speech allows you to say what you want. However it does not protect you from the consequences. Being fired from a radio station, being ostrasized for your comments being critisized for what you said, etc
> 
> Being allowed to post here has nothing to do with freedom of speech, BTW, the owner allows us to post here under rules that we agreed to when joining. Tossing for breaking the rules could be the punishment.
> 
> I ve seen many a people thrown out of campgrounds for rules infractions. I ve seen employees fired for constantly berating and insulting the boss and his business. Freedom of speech, yup, consequences in a privately owned sector, yup.


Well Said!!


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## wolfwood

huntr70, I don't understand your question ... why wasn't WHAT done when Vern sold the site??? Regardless, it was a private sale....one business owner to a future business owner. Vern had no obligation to anyone to open the site up for sale to the highest bidder nor to change any structure. There were also MANY fewer members at the time and the kind of dissent which then happened, hadn't yet occurred.

And yes. Some of us were around at the time of the sale, DID experience it all, and most certainly did experience the "old Outbackers". I can say that, except for the 'dissent', there is no "old Outbackers" or (presumably) "new Outbackers" .... its all the same ... just a couple years older and more mature, having experienced some growing pains.


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## cabullydogs

Jim,

I guess need some clarification. Are you proposing your own idea? It sounds like you want full control of the decision making etc, so are you saying you are going to buy the site from Doug? Doug's proposal is more along the lines of the community will own the site and thus their will be a board that makes decisions about T and C and advertising etc.

We have found outbackers to be a wealth of information and having just participated in our first rally we found the PNW folks to be welcoming and we really enjoyed meeting outbackers IRL. I would hate to see this place go. I'm not really a fan of advertising either, but I understand that it costs money to run the site. I think we just need some more clarification on what your idea is.

I would also like more clarification around the legal issues and how those issues would change if the community owned the site versus Doug and the LLC.


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## clarkely

tdvffjohn said:


> well andy im not affraid to say it.. this group(outbackers.com) blames the southeast for what went on. last year someone banned for comments on another site.
> well, when did freedom of speach not become free. they got mad and banned him 10 days before the biggest rally this site has ever had.
> so people got mad , went to the other site ..and yes did say somethings.
> so what, they have that right as americans. land of the free.. just get over it.. get a back bone people..
> 
> So everyone can see what was said, how about providing a link to the comments and everyone can decide for themselves whether to get over it.


Am i allowed to post the other site? What i have found............so people do not think it is rv.net ?

I mean in the last hour i was able to do some simple searches and find some info out.............


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## CamperAndy

huntr70 said:


> Well apparantly Doug had some instinct and forthought NJMike..
> 
> He can no longer own the site with what is happening... Its still free, just needs group ownership... As a group we can shoot down any bs because it will again become affordable to do so.. Right now to shoot down the BS it will break him...
> 
> It needs to become a group owned site, because of legalities and soforth from unhappy people..
> 
> Its being forced to become group owned..
> 
> I'm gonna pony up... Why not you..
> 
> Dont worry Mike, the savior is coming... The savior is those who would like to take on the BS as a group... I bet more of us are in than out.. A lawyer will be cheap this way... Many pages are on hard drives... They may as well give up now... They are vastly out numbered.
> 
> Carey


My question is...............why was this not done when Vern sold the site??

Because none of you were around then to experience it. No one even knew the site was for sale until the new ownership was announced...........

I really do pity all you newer people who never got to experience the original Outbackers......
[/quote]

Funny story from someone that HAS been here a while, that would be me.

I started my RV forum days on the Dark side of RV.Net. Some good information there but very cut throat, there were the weight police and the spelling bees and the Hensley hitch guys and the Brake smart pros and my favorite "Why don't you use the Search function?" guy.. Cross any of them and they would cut you to pieces.

Well my DW knew I was grumbling about it and while searching for an upgrade from our pop up to the 28rss she did a search and landed on Outbackers, she did not post but saw right away that it was a friendlier place then RV.net. She suggested I join and I did almost 5 years ago.

Well one of my first posts here was deleted and I got a nasty note from Vern that said "This is not RV.net, you don't tell people to read the manual, they are reading Outbackers and if you want to tell them some thing then tell them but don't talk down to them.". Well from then on I have tried to explain things as I know it and do it in a way that is more neighborly. When Y-Guy or maybe it was VDUBB (they both stopped being moderators at the same time) decided he had been a Moderator long enough he suggested to Vern that I take his place and here I am, Verns pick and at first I was one of the bad guys. I knew the old and how it was done and I know the new(er) and how it is done and if anything Doug has been softer then any of you can imagine. Thinking that Vern did not have direct and close supervision of this site when he managed it is mistaken. Maybe what some of you remember was the period when Vern was not here due to family issues and before Doug took over as the golden period but nothing has changed except that we have gotten bigger.


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## CamperAndy

clarkely said:


> Am i allowed to post the other site? What i have found............so people do not think it is rv.net ?
> 
> I mean in the last hour i was able to do some simple searches and find some info out.............


Please wait for one of the members of that site to post it. If one of us posted it, then we could be blamed in some twisted way with libel.


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## clarkely

Well i don't know what happened last year with a southern Rally and 10 day ban...............but our rally of over 40 families lost its link as long as all other rallies...........

And i am over it already!! Civil War is over...Get over it.

Lets move on.

I have, our rally in gettysburg will continue.......... OC/Jim maybe you should attend getttysburg now and we can have a conference and get this thing going!!

Clarke


----------



## clarkely

CamperAndy said:


> Am i allowed to post the other site? What i have found............so people do not think it is rv.net ?
> 
> I mean in the last hour i was able to do some simple searches and find some info out.............


Please wait for one of the members of that site to post it. If one of us posted it, then we could be blamed in some twisted way with libel.
[/quote]

Well then maybe i need to join that site.then i will post it as a member from there







I won't...........i really do not know why they would not say here we are come on over and check it out...............then others can decide for themselves..............and its done.

Internet is more than big enough for everyone to find space to be


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## shaela21

Wow, that was a lot of reading between this post and reading all of what Doug has to say. And all I can say is Wow. Jim, the lead you are taking to keep Outbackers alive is admirable, and I thank you for this. I was a moderator on a forum years ago and it can be a thankless job. You are seen as the bad guy as it is you who enforces the rules and guidelines, and crucifixion is not too far away if you make a wrong call.

I have always viewed forums (and I am a member on several of them. Some members here I have met on other forums, which is nice as it always seems to come back to here) and been on forums as being a guest in someones house. They have allowed you to come in and visit, share and provide information, but at the end of the day, it is their house. It is their rules. Some forums have no boundaries and it is not too hard to figure out which ones they are. When I go visit my parents house, they have goofy rules that I do not agree with, but I have to follow them. If I do not like the rules, I go home. Same here. If you cannot abide by these rules, then don't bother coming in. Most forum rules are fairly simple, and there are times where you may get your feeling hurt, or someone not agree with you. But that is par for the course. It is a shame that we cannot convey feelings or emotions (though the little similies are close) on a forum because sometimes a joke does come out as a joke, and feeling get hurt. Be aware of this, and got over it. I have e-mailed other members of forums and asked privately is they were mad at me, and lets clear this up so we can carry on and have a good time on the forum. Kiss and make up.

I have been with this forum for a few years now, and have learned more here then I would have ever imagined. Thank you to all who have helped me, and answered my dopey questions. When my dog, and best friend died 18 months ago, this was the only place that I posted it, and I received so much support and care during that time. When I was at sea to the Persian Gulf, your e-mails and support made me smile and I knew that I was there fighting the war for you guys. It has been fun, and Jim, count me in to help support whatever vision that you have for this site.

Cheers to all.


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## jnk36jnk

Hi there, have just read a new thread started by 'Reverie' with some pretty succinct ideas as to the formation of a group effort to keep Outbacker.com going. I asked him if he had had contact with Oregon Camper, and I now ask Oregon Camper, have you had contact with Reverie? We need to all be on the same page to see this thing through. Dean & Jodi


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## SmkSignals

tdvffjohn said:


> Some have complained that they are not allowed to express there views on whats wrong with this site. They don t have 'freedom'. Here it is, open dialogue.
> John


Agreed.

I was PM'd today by someone I have never talked to before. He / she was asking me ' How would you like this and how would you feel about that.' I was then told to think about it and get back to him / her. My response "Why don't you pose this question on the current thread? Seems you have sent this inquiry to a few people based on your profile views from yesterday and today. Being this is a private message, I will keep it private. If you really want my response, I will answer your questions publicly if you decide to post your concerns."

I still have yet to see this person pose his / her questions here publicly. And in all seriousness, I think they are valid questions that many here can address.

LONG LIVE OUTBACKERS !!


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## BigBadBrain

So, anyone been camping lately?

Wow. I first read Doug's post Thursday evening. I was very disheartened by what I read; once again, our sue first, think later society steps in and chases away one of the few good things we CHOOSE to enjoy. This thread has discussed history, rights, prospects, personal animosity, internet morality, family, private ownership... Pretty amazing stuff.

So here we are. We have a few folks who have decided they cannot rest until they cause enough trouble to cause the owner of our cherished forum to ask to be relieved of what is now a burden and once was his pride. Very sad and very disappointing and I don't in the least blame Doug for saying he wants out. To take on something you very much want to see succeed (both popularly and financially - no it's not a crime to make money) and then have it essentially stolen away by a few who simply want to cause pain. That's all. No other benefit except to cause pain. Revenge for hurt feelings? Same thing.

Moving forward. We have a few ideas. Doug suggested group ownership. Jim's proposal is less clear to me but the genesis of this thread was group ownership so I assume the two ideas have some shared concepts. I was willing to go with a membership system here not because of the benefits of membership but because it meant continuation of the forum without causing undue financial strain on the owner of the site. Why would I change now?

Group ownership is still a puzzle to me however. Liabilities, costs, adjudication of rules and member status, all of these things need to have more substance added to them before I can commit fully. Don't misunderstand my seeming reluctance, I want to do whatever we need to do to preserve this site for all of us, I just want to have clear vision of what it is we are doing.

Doug. You are a more stout fellow than I to have lasted so long. Financial burden, confrontation, unfair criticism and even suffering libel, you've gone above and beyond what I would have ever asked you to suffer. To you I offer thanks and appreciation and hope for speedy recovery from this unpleasantness that I hope will not put you and your family off of camping and sharing time with your friends. I count you a hero.

I've read 10 pages on this post - that's enough for me, now, let's get on with it.

BBB


----------



## wolfwood

Hmmm...I, too, have received several PMs today from some folks I don't know and have never (to my knowledge) spoken to....and have given, basically, the same response. Why not post this for all to consider and respond to? I have yet to see any of those public posts. Interesting.


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## W5CI

As a Newbie and a Charter member of the KOALA Club i am also shocked at what has happened here. I joined the KOALA club as a charter member to show my support for the site. as i said i am a newbie and am sorry to see it go away.

Danny


----------



## wolfwood

danny285 said:


> As a Newbie and a Charter member of the KOALA Club i am also shocked at what has happened here. I joined the KOALA club as a charter member to show my support for the site. as i said i am a newbie and am sorry to see it go away.
> 
> Danny


Danny, it looks like there are a whole lot of people who feel the same way and will work hard so that the site _DOESN'T_ go away!


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## mswalt

I haven't gotten any PMs. I guess I'm not forum material for them.......

I'll be honest. I don't even look at other forums. Outbackers is the only one I read, the only one I care to read, and the only one I WILL read.

Mark


----------



## Carey

lol.. 3 pages in 250 miles..

Yep you are spot on Nathan about Anarchy!

NJMike and Huntr70...

You still dont get what I have said, again and again..

The site needed no outside support from us when it was bought by Doug..

Doug wanted an ad free site that was one of the richest forums on the internet...He said that exact statement..

To do that he wished to create a forum to allow those intersted in the richer part to be a paid member.. He never said you have to and totally understood that many wont, because they dont care for all the goodies..

There is not one person on this whole forum who cant afford 30 some bucks a year..

I quicky seen that everyone thought Doug was creating his retirement and the next Ming Dynasty... Why? Why?

Anyone with a 3rd grade education can see that the odds are against having the site fully paid by us members.. Doug even said he was ok with that.. Think to the future People.. In 2 years the 100x100 Lifer members equals 10000 bucks... No more money comes from those people.. So at that point 150 or whatever need to join yearly to pay for the site..

Ok, fast forward to now...

Doug has been threatend with lawsuits... He no longer can afford the place..

Either it closes, or we as a group become group owners and then can thwart the efforts of the lawsiut much easier...

So basically NJMike, You say you want something for your money... If this place isnt enough, then hide-ho neighbor if you feel so badly against it..

100 bucks spread over a 7-10 year lifetime period is freakin NOTHING!!!

But what still is true is you can be a member here for free.. Knowbody is forcing knowbody.. But if this place is gonna make it, it will have to be member owned at this point... Cant you guys just quit worrying about this place if its such a problem.. You already have your own place to post, NJmike and Huntr..

Why are these people being so misunderstanding about the truth and the future of this place... It just baffles me...

Are you guys part of this lawsuit? Just a question? Its fair..

I have written clear sentences spaced far apart to hopefully allow you to see that we are now progrossed to a member owned site to continue..

Doug wanted a no ad, feature rich site, thats all... Whats the big deal? He done no wrong...

Jim would like an ad or two... And thats ok too... Again why question this stuff... Its simple to understand it all..

I dont get it... Why are you people being this way about something so unimportant about what Doug has done..

Carey


----------



## Carey

wolfwood said:


> huntr70, I don't understand your question ... why wasn't WHAT done when Vern sold the site??? Regardless, it was a private sale....one business owner to a future business owner. Vern had no obligation to anyone to open the site up for sale to the highest bidder nor to change any structure. There were also MANY fewer members at the time and the kind of dissent which then happened, hadn't yet occurred.
> 
> And yes. Some of us were around at the time of the sale, DID experience it all, and most certainly did experience the "old Outbackers". I can say that, except for the 'dissent', there is no "old Outbackers" or (presumably) "new Outbackers" .... its all the same ... just a couple years older and more mature, having experienced some growing pains.


Yep I was around too for the sale...

There was a huge post saying how happy we all were for doug, and doug saying, just give me some time and I will help to make this forum an even better forum than we could dream...

All of us said YOU GO PDX COWBOY!! We are behind you 100%... Many, many, many even said if you need money feel free to ask..

I dont remember it being much of a big deal as what you say Huntr..

Now the site has excelled and has gotten to be an even neater place to be part of and now we have jealousy...

I DONT GET IT!!!

Carey


----------



## Doxie-Doglover-Too

over 2,000 views in 12 hours...


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## Oregon_Camper

cabullydogs said:


> I guess need some clarification. Are you proposing your own idea? It sounds like you want full control of the decision making etc, so are you saying you are going to buy the site from Doug? Doug's proposal is more along the lines of the community will own the site and thus their will be a board that makes decisions about T and C and advertising etc.


Yes, those are my ideas. I am NOT proposing to take full control. I think a small group (8-10) people would be plenty. I simply stated my beliefs on how I would vote if I was part of the group that take ownership.


----------



## huntr70

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Doug has been threatend with lawsuits... He no longer can afford the place..
> 
> Are you guys part of this lawsuit? Just a question? Its fair..


As far as I know, this lawsuit is a figment of someones imagination since the only one that mentioned it was Doug.........

So, no, I am not part of any legal actions.


----------



## campingnut18

This is DW speaking. We are one of the very early members of this site (#198) and I can say that we truly and enthusiatically enjoyed this site. Heck, we had cards made up and passed them out to everyone we saw with an Outback camper. We have gained a lot of advice and made some lasting friendships here that can never be replaced. We had our first so called rally with just Nick and kids and then it grew to 5 campers and 20 and beyond!

WE (whoever that is) the South, the East, whatever - honestly don't care who owns the site. That has NEVER been an issue. The mounting petty jabs that started over a year ago have made some of us feel targeted . . . and even banned. IF you think for a moment that doesn't cause some rebellion, then you're mistaken. I didn't believe it at first - our Wal-Mart greeter, our positive Average Joe. I'm an adult and form my own opinions and I have stood back and "behaved" myself and observed but there has been some recent activity that disturbs me - from both sides. Unfortunately, I'm not sure it will ever be the same. I'm so disappointed and disheartened. The so called 1% may be a larger group than you think. And, the war between the North and South (or now West and East) ended a long time ago.

We are members of 4 other camping websites - yep 4!! If you would like me to list them all here, I can. I would also truly like to list the examples of the topics -- but most have been deleted - well simply because they got out of hand ON BOTH ENDS and shame on all of you for doing so publicly. And, who has that much time on their hands to search for those petty topics to be redeemed? Blame gets us nowhere and it takes more than one to create an argument. It's time to look at ourselves in the mirror and assess what we are about. Esp'ly when a moderator publicly comments negatively to members... and often.

Good nite and goodbye.

C-

p.s. Please don't respond back directly to me. We are finished. Do as you will. I truly hope that this site can be redeemed for the good of all that remains.


----------



## Tyvekcat

yeah, I'm in the dark. Never new what was going on behind the scenes. 
Didn't visit other RV-Camping sights, ( well I did look into the Casita forum from time to time).

Just watched, read and learned more than I thought I ever would here @ Outbackers.
Posted a few times, enjoyed the topics. If it didn't interest me I didn't read it.

read every one of the 'Magellan the pigeon post' !

Anyhoo, I don't know what the other sites name is. Life is hard enough to get by, so whom-ever is harassing Doug, just go away.

Hope we can save Outbackers. Hang in there Doug. Solidarity !

I'm following Carey, even though I am one of those 'East coast-ers' .

3's & 8's to ya'll.


----------



## CamperAndy

huntr70 said:


> Doug has been threatend with lawsuits... He no longer can afford the place..
> 
> Are you guys part of this lawsuit? Just a question? Its fair..


*As far as I know, this lawsuit is a figment of someones imagination since the only one that mentioned it was Doug.........*

So, no, I am not part of any legal actions.
[/quote]

So Doug is a liar?? I guess this fits your statement.









I know nothinggg!!!

Sorry I could not help it.


----------



## huntr70

CamperAndy said:


> Doug has been threatend with lawsuits... He no longer can afford the place..
> 
> Are you guys part of this lawsuit? Just a question? Its fair..


*As far as I know, this lawsuit is a figment of someones imagination since the only one that mentioned it was Doug.........*

So, no, I am not part of any legal actions.
[/quote]

So Doug is a liar?? I guess this fits your statement.









I know nothinggg!!!

Sorry I could not help it.
[/quote]

Just goes to prove a point, doesn't it.

I never called anyone a liar, I stated that because I don't know about any lawsuit. PERIOD!

I was asked if I was involved and I responded.........

As far as you, Andy, you don't need to think of any smart comments for me anymore, because I am done with you..............


----------



## thefulminator

If there actually is some sort of rift between East and West, North and South, up and down or some other division, then make two sites and rename them both. OutbackersWest.com and OutbackersEast.com for example. Then everyone can pick the one that suites their needs and personalities the best.


----------



## CamperAndy

campingnut18 said:


> Esp'ly when a moderator publicly comments negatively to members... and often.


Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Never seems to be a happy middle ground, if you don't chastise a wayward post then no one knows it is wayward and those that do know it, think what the hell are the moderators doing letting that stuff stay? If you do action a wayward post then you are the Devil reincarnate and smashing the 1st amendment.


----------



## swanny

huntr70 said:


> Doug has been threatend with lawsuits... He no longer can afford the place..
> 
> Are you guys part of this lawsuit? Just a question? Its fair..


*As far as I know, this lawsuit is a figment of someones imagination since the only one that mentioned it was Doug.........*

So, no, I am not part of any legal actions.
[/quote]

So Doug is a liar?? I guess this fits your statement.









I know nothinggg!!!

Sorry I could not help it.
[/quote]

Just goes to prove a point, doesn't it.

I never called anyone a liar, I stated that because I don't know about any lawsuit. PERIOD!

I was asked if I was involved and I responded.........
[/quote]

Just wondering, Is this the type of thing that got us to this point. Heading down that long bumpy road to nowhere. Just an observation.


----------



## Oregon_Camper

Not sure where this East vs West concept came from.

Have great virtual friends all over the US and Canada. Can we please stop this East vs West thing?


----------



## mike

campingnut18 said:


> This is DW speaking. We are one of the very early members of this site (#198) and I can say that we truly and enthusiatically enjoyed this site. Heck, we had cards made up and passed them out to everyone we saw with an Outback camper. We have gained a lot of advice and made some lasting friendships here that can never be replaced. We had our first so called rally with just Nick and kids and then it grew to 5 campers and 20 and beyond!
> 
> WE (whoever that is) the South, the East, whatever - honestly don't care who owns the site. That has NEVER been an issue. The mounting petty jabs that started over a year ago have made some of us feel targeted . . . and even banned. IF you think for a moment that doesn't cause some rebellion, then you're mistaken. I didn't believe it at first - our Wal-Mart greeter, our positive Average Joe. I'm an adult and form my own opinions and I have stood back and "behaved" myself and observed but there has been some recent activity that disturbs me - from both sides. Unfortunately, I'm not sure it will ever be the same. I'm so disappointed and disheartened. The so called 1% may be a larger group than you think. And, the war between the North and South (or now West and East) ended a long time ago.
> 
> We are members of 4 other camping websites - yep 4!! If you would like me to list them all here, I can. I would also truly like to list the examples of the topics -- but most have been deleted - well simply because they got out of hand ON BOTH ENDS and shame on all of you for doing so publicly. And, who has that much time on their hands to search for those petty topics to be redeemed? Blame gets us nowhere and it takes more than one to create an argument. It's time to look at ourselves in the mirror and assess what we are about. Esp'ly when a moderator publicly comments negatively to members... and often.
> 
> Good nite and goodbye.
> 
> C-
> 
> p.s. Please don't respond back directly to me. We are finished. Do as you will. I truly hope that this site can be redeemed for the good of all that remains.


lamar, previously i wrote that i feel u are a good guy and we had fun with u all last year. I really belive the pettiness needs to stop and lets all move forward with a outback site that continues to be family friendly and alot of fun for everyone.


----------



## mike

thefulminator said:


> If there actually is some sort of rift between East and West, North and South, up and down or some other division, then make two sites and rename them both. OutbackersWest.com and OutbackersEast.com for example. Then everyone can pick the one that suites their needs and personalities the best.


if we do east vs west what about the midwest, do i argue with myself, wait a minute thats what the dw is for, lol just kidding. I feel we all need a little laugh.


----------



## Oregon_Camper

huntr70 said:


> *As far as I know, this lawsuit is a figment of someones imagination since the only one that mentioned it was Doug.........*


I never called anyone a liar, I stated that because I don't know about any lawsuit. PERIOD!
[/quote]

I would think "liar" and saying something is the "figment of someones imagination" is about the same thing.

If I told you I had lunch with Santa Claus, you'd think I was a liar...right?


----------



## CamperAndy

huntr70 said:


> Just goes to prove a point, doesn't it.
> 
> I never called anyone a liar, I stated that because I don't know about any lawsuit. PERIOD!
> 
> I was asked if I was involved and I responded.........
> 
> As far as you, Andy, you don't need to think of any smart comments for me anymore, because I am done with you..............


Fine, no smart remark and from this point on in this thread I am just Joe poster.

You said the lawsuit was a figment of someones imagination. If that is true then Doug's statement is a lie, no two ways about it. If it is not true and as you state you have no way of knowing then why post that it is a figment of his imagination unless you want to say he is lying??? Why would you want that impression to come from your post?

You did it to stir the pot and to poke a stick in a dead horse and at this point I am sick and tired of the 1.5% ( I will give campingnut18 her bigger slice) continuing to be negative but will not admit they are trying to make the web site fail.


----------



## Y Guy's Wife

At this point in time, whatever the reasons for Doug giving up the site are immaterial and the conversation about that really needs end. We are way off topic here. the thread is to talk about new ownership of the site not blast and name call about what caused the site to be given up. It really doesn't matter now why the site is being given up, just that it is. Any number of scenarios could have caused Doug to want to give up the site.

As I see it, there are 30 days left until the sight goes dark. There are a few scenarios that can take place. 1. Some individual can approach Doug and purchase the site; 2. A group of people can create a community ownership of the site and purchase the site; or 3. The site simply goes dark on June 30th at 11:59.

How the site is run from July 1st on will depend on the new owners. The owner(s) can revamp the whole darn thing if they want. It will be there site. Any one of us can stay or leave based on new terms and conditions.

Stay or go, it's not going to make everyone happy, nothing ever does. If you don't like the atmosphere, rules, membership, then leave. There are other boards out there. Why would anyone want to even be here if they don't agree with the rules or the way the board is set up is beyond me.

Anyway, I hope we can drop all the snide comments, arguing, name calling, etc. and get back to the situation at hand. The board goes dark in 30 days if no one or group purchases it.


----------



## MO7Bs

Just a thought...

Why don't we stop talking about the folks that are trying to take this site we all enjoy so much away. And this may only be our perception, but to those of you that feel unfairly accused of this kind of behavior and to the one's doing the accusing, I have one management principle that I use when I have 2 employees fighting.

PERCEPTION IS REALITY!

So it really doesn't matter what I say about Doug, it's how you, the reader, perceives the information that becomes your reality. If you like me and Doug, then it's a joke, if you like Doug and not me then the same words can be a slam, if you like me and not Doug then it's something that should have been said a long time ago, etc. You get the point, I know you do, we are all intelligent folks.

So here's my proposal...

STOP

My previous post stands, if you're doing this on purpose, then be prepared for some payback from some source or another, but STOP!

If your just standing up for yourself, then PM, or better yet, publicly post a cease fire with the person(s) you are disagreeing with and then STOP!

If your right, swallow your pride and accept the olive leaf, then STOP!

If your wrong, buck up, admit it, then offer an appology to the offended, then STOP.

THIS SITE WILL FAIL FROM THE NEGATIVITY. IT IS NOT WHAT I CAME HERE FOR AND DEFINATELY NOT WHAT I WANT TO SEE WHEN I COME HERE.

My problem is this, I want to come here and learn from folks like Andy. You see my perception is that he is the absolute authority on all things OB. Even if you don't think this is true, it is my perception, therefore my reality. In the words of Mythbusters...I reject your reality and substitute my own. WE ALL DO THIS, the thing is, we all need to admit it.

I WANT THIS TO CONTINUE...and I really believe everyone reading this does too. If not, why are you reading this, don't you have a life that needs your attention?

Paul


----------



## thefulminator

I wasn't trying to create a bigger rift. Was just throwing out another option in splitting the site in two.

In any case, if there is some way that I can help I will try.

*Ask not what your community can do for you. Ask what you can do for your community.*


----------



## 5th Time Around

This is not how I expected to spend my weekend so why don't we all give it 
A rest and come back in a couple days when all this has had time to settle in.


----------



## Steelhead

Whew!! I'm pretty much exhausted from reading all of this post and Doug's post announcing the problems here. 
To me ,it is unimaginable that someone would suggest that the Koala club membership or the charter members were forming some kind
of exclusive club with secretive communications. Really? I am a charter member because I felt it it was the responsible thing to do. I have contributed in the past (although not recently) in response to the value I felt the forum has been to me. Wanted to help carry part of the load. Everyone knows that I post very little and am not highly respected for my knowledge or wisdom. How could I possibly be part of an exclusive club with secret communications. I think there are tons of Newbies that have joined too. Exclusive club? I don't think so. Simply a way to finance and keep the forum going.

Yes I have felt a little hurt feelings a couple times from responses to some posts and have observed some sharper than necessary responses to others comments by a moderator. So what? The value of the community and available information here far outweighs any small slights. I will continue to contribute $ 
as long as the site exists and there is a need. Why can't everyone be a little more above the cheap shots, insults or whatever and just abide by the forum rules, contribute when they can be helpful and ask when they need advice or info. Lets all try to feel more secure in who we are and not try to tear a valuable asset down and cause it to disappear.

Dallas


----------



## jcat67

Oregon_Camper said:


> *As far as I know, this lawsuit is a figment of someones imagination since the only one that mentioned it was Doug.........*


I never called anyone a liar, I stated that because I don't know about any lawsuit. PERIOD!
[/quote]

I would think "liar" and saying something is the "figment of someones imagination" is about the same thing.

If I told you I had lunch with Santa Claus, you'd think I was a liar...right?
[/quote]

If you told me you had lunch with Santa Claus TODAY, I'd think you were a liar.......I had lunch with him today. Duh!!!!









I'm with Mike, we need a little laughter to







the mood.


----------



## Doxie-Doglover-Too

jcat67 said:


> *As far as I know, this lawsuit is a figment of someones imagination since the only one that mentioned it was Doug.........*


I never called anyone a liar, I stated that because I don't know about any lawsuit. PERIOD!
[/quote]

I would think "liar" and saying something is the "figment of someones imagination" is about the same thing.

If I told you I had lunch with Santa Claus, you'd think I was a liar...right?
[/quote]

If you told me you had lunch with Santa Claus TODAY, I'd think you were a liar.......I had lunch with him today. Duh!!!!









I'm with Mike, we need a little laughter to







the mood.








[/quote]
yeah, well, I saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus
Ok, couldn't resist. It's off topic but a little humor IS needed. I am off of here for the night. This is all giving me a huge headache and even bigger heart ache


----------



## MO7Bs

jcat67 said:


> *As far as I know, this lawsuit is a figment of someones imagination since the only one that mentioned it was Doug.........*


I never called anyone a liar, I stated that because I don't know about any lawsuit. PERIOD!
[/quote]

I would think "liar" and saying something is the "figment of someones imagination" is about the same thing.

If I told you I had lunch with Santa Claus, you'd think I was a liar...right?
[/quote]

If you told me you had lunch with Santa Claus TODAY, I'd think you were a liar.......I had lunch with him today. Duh!!!!









I'm with Mike, we need a little laughter to







the mood.








[/quote]

You're both liars, he was here for lunch!

Wait, how many Santa's are there?


----------



## battalionchief3

After reading his post I felt like I was hanging out at the firehouse.....Well I hope this site sticks around, I have made friends, learned a lot and enjoy it. If dontations are needed I can throw some bucks out for it, figure as much as I use it its worth it to me. Good luck


----------



## jcat67

MO7Bs said:


> *As far as I know, this lawsuit is a figment of someones imagination since the only one that mentioned it was Doug.........*


I never called anyone a liar, I stated that because I don't know about any lawsuit. PERIOD!
[/quote]

I would think "liar" and saying something is the "figment of someones imagination" is about the same thing.

If I told you I had lunch with Santa Claus, you'd think I was a liar...right?
[/quote]

If you told me you had lunch with Santa Claus TODAY, I'd think you were a liar.......I had lunch with him today. Duh!!!!









I'm with Mike, we need a little laughter to







the mood.








[/quote]

You're both liars, he was here for lunch!

Wait, how many Santa's are there?
[/quote]

My bad, you're correct. Only one Santa but you guys are a couple of time zones away. That's how he does the presents.........MOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## tdvffjohn

While I do not disagree that this is not what Outbackers is about. A lot of water has gone under the bridge since Doug took ownership and the crap he has endured has reached a breaking point. Doug has brought it out in the open. What is interesting is the silence from the 1.5 %. They choose to hide, I assume. Sometimes before the healing can begin, you need to argue everthing out and thats whats happening now. If we don t give the dissentors there chance to defend how they feel or at least state it publicly instead of in PM s to the mods, the cries of censorship will continue. I am not enjoying this at all but knowing more about the behind the scenes crap over the years, I am surprised at the silence I m hearing.


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## CamperAndy

This says it all on what this web site means to some.


----------



## wntx_camper

I'm late to the party but I wanted to say that I enjoy Outbackers.com. We purchased ours a little over a year ago and I've benefited greatly from the information learned visiting the site. It has always been a warm and welcoming place. While I have yet to attend a rally, I look forward to meeting some of you folks.

I hope Outbackers continues. I would certainly participate (and should have already) in whatever form that takes.

Thank you Doug for providing a nice place for me to come visit!


----------



## mike

battalionchief3 said:


> After reading his post I felt like I was hanging out at the firehouse.....Well I hope this site sticks around, I have made friends, learned a lot and enjoy it. If dontations are needed I can throw some bucks out for it, figure as much as I use it its worth it to me. Good luck


That is a great response, i pmd another fireman on the site and related the same thing, one of the sayings at the firehouse is that sometimes we are our own worst ememies.

Btw, with all the stuff i have bought for the big trip, i am my own santa claus. lol everyone.


----------



## mike

CamperAndy said:


> This says it all on what this web site means to some.


boy thats a thought that outbackers is family. Do I get along with everyone in my family, no. but when we all get together as someone posted earlier, there are commen civlilities that we do. I hope we all can think about what this means to each of us.


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## Carey

Look I started the east west thing and Im sorry.. It really was a joke and not meant to hurt feelings.. Please all, we are adults and it doesnt matter where we're from.. Having people from all over is so great for all of us..

Remember that post a few weeks back when the 2 auto parts guys met eachother.. One was on the atlantic, and the other the pacific.. They chatted like old friends.. Had never even new that eachother we're here.. You know, thats the cool thing about this forum..

Here is why I said that about east/west..

Very early when that site was started, I was ask to go check it out.. So of course I did.. I read a post from someone that said, hey we are all easterners here.. We need to recruit some westerners.. So I got to looking at the site and sure enough all were from the east.. I have nothing against being from anywhere..

The reason and only reason I didnt join was I was just too busy.. I was asked a few more times, but by then I was seeing and reading all sorts of rumors about all the sites, us included.. I figured Id keep my wings in and just ride the storm out..

You know if you go there right now, its a nice forum and there is no talk of any bad stuff.. I know there was another that wasnt so great though..

Anyway, what will it take to make everyone happy? Dont know about the rest, but I have total forgivness in my heart..

From what I understand the other group is mad.. Mad that they think Doug is trying to be a dictator.. Many of the other members still want to be a part of this site.. Now its gotten to the point of a divided group.. We gotta fix this someway..

I miss NJmike and his knowledgeable posts about most anything... I miss Fire44 and his knowledge of Chevys. I miss Jim and his knowledge of guns.. I miss 2500Ram, and Huntr with there knowledge of Dodge's.. Zfamily too.. Sorry but these people were just a few of why I became a member here.. I thought, wow, these guys know there stuff, and I sure would like to be a part of it.. I know I missed some but I still remember all these handles(sorry its all guy orientated, lol.. Then for some reason they all disapeared from here and I really dont know why..

Anyway, those guys also made this place great.. I miss you guys..

I guess its so divided that it cant be fixed, uh? Im up for ideas how we all can work together with one another to get thru this dark time..

Jim, Maybe if you get 8-10 to help you, could some be from the upset side? Its just that many of the upset people has made this place the great place it is/was..

Just a bummed out truck driver with no clue how we all can be friends again..

Sorry, just thinking and typing out loud..


----------



## Collinsfam_WY

We were clueless about any of this going on. This is a great site - one that both DW and I visit daily. We will do what we can to help. I was a GM of an internet guild for nearly 2 years and dealt with much of what Doug has experienced (sans lawsuits). I can say that he has been much more tolerant than I would have been. Drawing from my experience, I can honestly say that overall, Doug and the Mods do an unbelievable job here.

I haven't got any pm's from people I don't know and don't give a hoot about 'em or any other site. I got too much going on (real life stuff!!!) to deal with angry people. Lawl.

Regarding the $100. Here is how DW and I looked at it.

Met dozens of people, made many friends.
Had an Outbacker stay in our home.
Got to try out a prototype hitch and gape in amazement at how good it is.
Saved a few $1000 in repairs.
Learned about dozens of awesome mods.
Was directed to Lakeshore RV where we met Marci.
Had an incredible journey to Muskegon, MI where we met AZThroop and family, told them about Outbackers, and have seen them join and become members.
Learned a mountain of stuff about RV'ing.
etc. etc. etc.

We don't give a hoot about the folks that are being pests. Like Jim, I saw hit'em with the ban stick and move on.

FYI - just a thought - consider this - perhaps the mods are letting this thread go so that the general membership gets a real good, clear idea of what has been going on.

-CC

*warning...incoming humor*
ps...I feel screwed - I joined the exclusive club but have not been told about/nor heard about the super special places that exclusive club people get to go and post. Perhaps one of the 1.5% can let me know so that I can go hang out with the rest of the exclusive club crowd!


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## mike

Carey, i agree with u post. I also have met some great s.e. outbackers. Most are good people with some great ideas. There are a few that feel the site should be run differently. Thats ok but Outbackers is what it is. I hope they come back. I am looking forward to seeing many of them at Topsail this year. When we first got on the site some of them even pm'd me with their phone numbers as our first trip with our first tt was a thousand miles to topsail. Their generous offers of help if needed were incredible. I will never forget that.


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## Brad S.

I found this site three short months ago and love it. Bought my first TT ever...an Outback 270BH. Part of why I bought this trailer was the vast support offered on this site. I have never found a forum with so many individuals so willing to help others out. I learned about trailers in general, figured out what to check for when picking up my TT (PDI) and have found many modifications to envy. I posted only once...to someone I now think of as a friend from New York - he purchased the 270BH as well and provided a lot of helpful advice.

I have to say I didn't pick up on all the 'crap' going on that I have now just become aware of through this posting. I will admit I skipped over most of it as it looks like all hope is lost for Outbackers.com. That is too bad. What a great community. So many great people with a common interest. I hope those of you with knowledge of the BS going on, and the time to do something, will. I certainly support through hope and would also support through $$ a decision that would assist in helping keep this going.

Again, I don't know the ins-and-outs of the entire story, but from a lay person's point of view, this was a one sided fight. I only heard about it when it appears now the towel has been thrown in with the final curtain call in June. If it is worth saving...why not hire an attorney or maybe someone from the forum who is an attorney would lend a lot of advice on how to fight a little.


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## Camper Man

I might be part of the so-called 1.5 percent. I don't know how that's defined so I'm not sure if I'm included or not.

I found my trailer on Outbackers.com and met all of my current camping friends through this forum. I have always enjoyed the Outbackers community, considered myself a member in good standing, have contributed a couple of times, and referred many others to Outbackers.com as recently as last night on RV.net.

I also joined the other website when it stood up because a bunch of my friends migrated over there and I viewed it as another way to stay in touch. There is no cheering or glee over this, that I can detect. In fact there is not one thread devoted to this topic among the current 30+ discussions over there that I quickly reviewed, going back to May 19.

I would hate to see Outbackers.com close. Outside of the various groups organized around Airstream owners, I don't know of a stronger brand-affiliated RV organization than the Outbackers, which has been built primarily through this web-site. I genuinely hope that Outbackers.com will continue its presence on the internet, however that has to be done.


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## NDJollyMon

From THIS Moderators point of view:

Moderating a forum isn't as easy as it may appear.
Moderating a forum can make people dislike you...when they normally wouldn't.
Moderating a forum takes a lot of personal time.
Moderating a forum can be very stressful.
Moderating a forum pays nothing...it's done by volunteers.

I moderate 4 internet forums.
I co-own and operate 1 forum.
I am currently fighting a legal battle in 1 internet forum.
I've banned appoximately 30 members in the month of May over 4 internet forums.
I have NEVER banned an OUTBACKER.COM member...and I've moderated this forum since it opened it's doors.
I've been banned myself in 2 internet forums...this year alone. (both unfairly IMHO)

It's ok to be in disagreement with one another...as long as it is done in a respectful manner.
I've never sued anyone for being banned, nor have I been sued for banning someone. (but I've been threatened)
Moderators are human, and can make mistakes. We can become heated, or emotional over things we are passionate about.

An internet forum can be run by a panel of members/admins, but it takes a lot of conversation and time to get things done. We ran a forum with a voting panel of 8 admins. We are now down to 6 because of disagreements, and had to BAN one of our own admins from the site.

While I don't agree with everyone on this thread, I simply will not engage in finger pointing, name calling or disrespect. I hold myself to a high standard, and try to maintain it as much as I can.

FYI: We moderators have given this thread A LOT of leeway...considering what is going down. People are very passionate, and emotional about OUTBACKERS...so while it may go a little OFF TOPIC at times...I think it deserves to continue to flow...at a reasonable pace. BACKSEAT MODERATING of this, or any other thread....is NOT ok.

In Doug's defense...
many people around here should be glad that Doug is in control of pushing that BAN button. I'm a very nice person....but if I were in control, I would have squashed that BAN button a whole lot sooner, and on a whole lot more people than he ever did. Just look at the stats listed above...it speaks for itself.

Currently....there is only SERIOUS DRAMA going on in 1 of the 4 forums...and it's the one I don't control the BAN button in. Hmmmm.

OUTBACKERS.COM needs to be kept together. Remember, STAFF is in control a forum....but it's the MEMBERS that make up the place. Without members...there is no forum. Hang tough OUTBACKERS...just another bump in the road.

Safe travels everyone.


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## clarkely

tdvffjohn said:


> While I do not disagree that this is not what Outbackers is about. A lot of water has gone under the bridge since Doug took ownership and the crap he has endured has reached a breaking point. Doug has brought it out in the open. What is interesting is the silence from the 1.5 %. They choose to hide, I assume. Sometimes before the healing can begin, you need to argue everthing out and thats whats happening now. If we don t give the dissentors there chance to defend how they feel or at least state it publicly instead of in PM s to the mods, the cries of censorship will continue. I am not enjoying this at all but knowing more about the behind the scenes crap over the years, I am surprised at the silence I m hearing.


Well said!!! I believe the laundry should be aired........then move on!!


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## clarkely

By the way I am in!! We need to make this work!! I am all for a dictatorship as it has been called...............because this is a good place!!

I like Doug's outline...........I have sat back and given it some thought..will give it even more as i sleep tonight!! If there must be a "Board" it needs to be done swiftly...............the longer the site is in "Flux" the more devisive the existing issues become, whatever they are.

The sooner we move on the sooner the healing begins........SO please air what ever needs to be aired.......So we can get back to "the community"

And Doug I have a T-Shirt to send you after we tye-dye it







in Gettysburg







I do not want them to become collectors







and i am confident they Won't!!

Clarke


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## willie226

I am on board for the new ownership. How do i join the koala club?


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## JerseyGirl86

Oh my God! All I wanted to do was come on here and catch up with everyone. I was so excited to come on here to tell you all about our first 2 trips....I was more excited to tell all of you than I was to tell my family! I can't imagine how bad it had to be for Doug to call it quits on this site.

If it weren't for this site, I'd never have gotten my Outback. If it weren't for this site, I wouldn't have had a clue as to what to DO with my Outback! If it weren't for you, I would've put my children's life at risk by towing with an unsafe vehicle. I wouldn't have known where to get my replacement parts, what to bring on our first trip, what to do BEFORE our first trip, and what to do with my kids to keep them happy. I am so proud to have my "Jersey Girl" sticker proclaiming my pride in being an Outbacker! I feel like no matter how much time goes by, I know you are all always there if I need you. It's an awful thought to think this forum wouldn't be here anymore! And to think none of you would be as easy to reach with the click of a key!

I don't know what this other site is but the comments must've been pretty awful. I, too, am interested in knowing what the other site is. Could someone PM me??? Remember...I'm from New Jersey, so it's a given that I'm nibby and need to put my 2 cents in.

Hoping this all works out for everyone...

Michele


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## Reverie

Like Jolly, I Moderate three different boards. I guess I have some sort of control issues or something. Anyway, I am in favor of letting this thread continue but I want everyone to understand that what Jolly said is true, it takes time to coalesce leadership. Doug has given us through the end of the month to have our stuff together. Five weeks is not a lot of time to put together a framework, get leadership in place, develop a workable and viable financial plan and get it approved by all sides.

From a personal standpoint, I would like to re-establish the Rallies Forums. Those were the lifeblood of the regional get-togethers. Right now we are scrambling to get the information out for the attendees. The last two weeks are the most critical and we find ourselves without our forum at that most critical time.

One other note, I see that a lot of people want to find the offending people and publicly chastise them. There is a reason we try to keep these issues out of the public eye. It serves nobody, not the moderators, the owner, or the member to air this in public. While people are free to go elsewhere and gripe, it is this decorum that makes Outbackers.com special and will continue to be the behavioral theme as long as I Moderate over here. The other thing to understand is that most people feel very strongly about their disagreements, else it wouldn't come to the point it does. I really doubt there is anyone that is just angry for the sake of being angry, though there are some I think that enjoy the act of being angry way more than I can understand.

Reverie


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## MNoutbackers

This site has been a Godsend to us. This being our first TT that we have purchased, I can't tell you how valuable this site has been. I check the postings every day to see what new topics people are talking about and what wisdom we can gain from them.

I feel that I have become obsessed with this site and sometimes can't get enough of the postings and pictures. The membership fee we paid is incidental. We have saved so much more by the information we have gained. The dealership that we bought are TT from has never given us the information that this site has.

Doug, I'm sorry that you have been led to this. Volunteers often often face unwanted criticism. No one wants to do the work, but are sometimes to quick to criticize. My DH and I have both experienced this. Our solution was; "if you don't like how I am doing this, then you do it" That usually shut them up.

I'm saddened to see you back out from this volunteer position. However, it sounds like you need some much needed time with your family. I for one, did not realize how much time you put into this website and an extremely grateful. Please continue to share your thoughts and wisdom with us. It wouldn't be the same without you.

We are totally on board with whatever is decided. We cannot let this website go dark! My obsession must go on!


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## cabullydogs

I'm really not concerned about the us vs them, etc. I would however like to better understand the legal threats that have been made. If we continue and the dh's membership is used towards the purchase of the site as a community owned forum, we will obviously need to continue to contribute money to keep the forum up and running, unless advertising is the rout that is used. Byt that decision will not be made until after new ownership is decided and Board of Directors formed. In addition, if the legal threat pans out and te "community" needs to defend itself legally, that will cost us the "community" more money as well. Someone seemed to imply that if the board is owned by the community that the percieved legal threats are almost null and void. However, unless someone tells us what the legal threats are there is no way to know that. Which makes it difficult for us to make a decision about moving forward.

We love this site and do not want to see it go away but we also need to kow what we are fully getting into before making that leap. Given the current proposal Doug also needs to sell the remaining Koala Club memberships to make this work. So we need to know how many memberships are left and how many people are willing to buy in. I know several people have spoken up and said they want to, but where does that put us.

In addition, my guess would be that if we get all o this ironed out and the community than purchases the site from Doug, then the membership wuld need to vote on the Board of Directors based on who expresses interest. Then their will need to be bylaws for the Board to follow etc, etc. There is much work to be done, so if we can address the above, then lets going!


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## clarkely

Reverie said:


> One other note, I see that a lot of people want to find the offending people and publicly chastise them. There is a reason we try to keep these issues out of the public eye. It serves nobody, not the moderators, the owner, or the member to air this in public. While people are free to go elsewhere and gripe, it is this decorum that makes Outbackers.com special and will continue to be the behavioral theme as long as I Moderate over here.
> Reverie


Agreed......put it behind and move on....and a round of applause for the moderators & leadership that has done such a great job of keeping the ^&** out of the forums in the first place.

THANKS!!


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## wntx_camper

wntx_camper said:


> I'm late to the party but I wanted to say that I enjoy Outbackers.com. We purchased ours a little over a year ago and I've benefited greatly from the information learned visiting the site. It has always been a warm and welcoming place. While I have yet to attend a rally, I look forward to meeting some of you folks.
> 
> I hope Outbackers continues. I would certainly participate (and should have already) in whatever form that takes.
> 
> Thank you Doug for providing a nice place for me to come visit!


Thank you also to the moderators for your had time and devotion to the site as well!!


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## goneflyfishin

JerseyGirl86 said:


> If it weren't for this site, I'd never have gotten my Outback. If it weren't for this site, I wouldn't have had a clue as to what to DO with my Outback! If it weren't for you, I would've put my children's life at risk by towing with an unsafe vehicle. I wouldn't have known where to get my replacement parts, what to bring on our first trip, what to do BEFORE our first trip, and what to do with my kids to keep them happy. I am so proud to have my "Jersey Girl" sticker proclaiming my pride in being an Outbacker! I feel like no matter how much time goes by, I know you are all always there if I need you. It's an awful thought to think this forum wouldn't be here anymore! And to think none of you would be as easy to reach with the click of a key!
> 
> Michele


Well said Michele!

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all just agree that Life is way too short for this kind of nonsense.

Tammy


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## thefulminator

As far as ads go, it can be done without a lot of pain to the forum members. When I owned a Jayco popup, before buying our Outback, I used to frequent popupexplorer.com for the same reasons I come here. They have ads, lots of ads. There are ads for sleep number beds, chevy trucks, insurance, batteries, camping world and the list goes on and on. The point is that it is a site that like outbackers.com that isn't run by a manufacturer. It's just a group, like us, who own all different makes, models and ages of popup trailers who get together for information and friendship. There are tons of ads, but I never once found them to be annoying because none of them use pop up ads. They just sit on the web page and show you what they are selling.

I'm not saying that outbackers.com should go to ads, but rather that it is just an option if needed.

I suppose that yet another option would to be to see if Dean Baab, the owner of popupexplorer would be interested in also running outbackers.com. Dean Baab's Info. It's funny but I believe that Dean used to live in PDX as well and has moved, I think, to Hood River Or.

Remember, don't shoot the messenger. I'm just throwing out ideas.


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## Y-Guy

thefulminator said:


> I suppose that yet another option would to be to see if Dean Baab, the owner of popupexplorer would be interested in also running outbackers.com. Dean Baab's Info. It's funny but I believe that Dean used to live in PDX as well and has moved, I think, to Hood River Or.


I think Dean is going to be a bit busy as he just bought PopUpTimes from Dave Newhouse.


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## BigBadBrain

Looking for someone who owns a similar site is an interesting thought. Finding someone who could provide the same environment might be a little tougher (not suggesting that the people mentioned don't have a good environment BTW).

I'd feel a little more comfortable with that approach than a grass-roots effort just because all of the potential issues would be known by someone who already owns another site. Also, it would allow Outbackers/com members to look at the sites they run to see what kind of place it is (in lieu of an interview I guess).


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## Calvin&Hobbes

Well, Countrgurl and I just reterned from a great weekend rally with the reat of the NE group. I am speechless, I have to go sit down and digest this......I left On Friday AM, and come back to disarray. Wow.


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## rdvholtwood

While on our way camping this weekend, I received a call from a fellow outbacker indicating that the site was shutting down. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Upon my return home a few short hours ago, I read Doug's post and couldn't believe it. I knew there have been debates, but, I didn't realize it was serious enough to warrant shutting the site down or for that matter involve litigation.

I became a charter member to help support the site and to keep it going. I still believe in this forum and am willing to support it to help keep it running. We have a great thing going here - don't let it go away!

Doug, my hats off for to you and the moderators for what you all have done for this site!!

So, please count me in! I'm here to help!

Rick


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## nynethead

i can't believe this is happening. i joined some 4 years ago when i purchased my 29bhs and love being part of the group and going to the rallies.

I now own anothe Keystone SOB 5'er but i have always been welcomed as an outbacker.

I say if the basXXXds want to cause a problem and want to run the site their way put up of shut up. do the right thing and buy doug out of the site.

Doug has done a fantastic job in improving the site and I have seen no negative aspects since his owner ship.

I wish you would name names, though i understand it is not politically correct to do so.

I know my dealer knows of the site and comes to our rallies and Keystone also knows, this is a positive not a negative.

I am also in on anything that is being discussed as i love this site...


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## egenest

I hope this site stay around. It has helped me a lot over the years.
ED


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## Cj45

Count me in--I'll be listening closely for anything new that comes up.


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## bradnjess

rdvholtwood said:


> While on our way camping this weekend, I received a call from a fellow outbacker indicating that the site was shutting down. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Upon my return home a few short hours ago, I read Doug's post and couldn't believe it. I knew there have been debates, but, I didn't realize it was serious enough to warrant shutting the site down or for that matter involve litigation.
> 
> *I became a charter member to help support the site and to keep it going. I still believe in this forum and am willing to support it to help keep it running. We have a great thing going here - don't let it go away! *
> 
> Doug, my hats off for to you and the moderators for what you all have done for this site!!
> 
> So, please count me in! I'm here to help!
> 
> Rick


Nicely put Rick, I agree 100%.

Like so many others we went camping this weekend and came home to this, wow. I will keep it short since I share the same feelings as so many others who have already posted, now known as the "99%" I guess. 
First off I would like to think that Doug would reconsider his decision once things settle down but I know from his post that this obviously wasn't a rash decision and he certainly struggled with this. Looking forward, the proposal Doug suggested sounds like a good plan to me and if this is the route chosen I will support it 100%. 
Jim thanks for taking the lead in the effort to keep this "family" together. Your love of this forum is obvious to me and I'm sure everyone else, and I'm certain you have only the best intentions for the future of this site. 
As far as the people who are to blame for this mess, I say screw 'em! Make examples of them, call them out by name, ban them, move on and don't look back. I am a member because I believe in the vision Doug had for this community, if I didn't I wouldn't keep coming back or contribute. I cannot even begin to understand why people who don't like the way this site is handled waste so much of their time causing problems when it sounds like they already have a site to go to to be miserable.
Jim, count me in....Doug, many thanks for all you've done and my prayers are with you and your family.

Brad


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## jbwcamp

I have been a member for almost 5 years now and although I dont check in on a regular basis, this has and is the only forum that I am a regular member of. In fact this is my home page for our computers. I want to express my deep thanks to Doug for all of his hard work and am glad to see our community come together to save this valuable asset to all outbackers. We purchased our outback after joining this forum and have done most all of the mods that are posted here. Thanks to all those who shared their hints and mods. We are willing to help keep this site up in what ever way we can.
Thanks,


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## Doft

Wow!

Have a rally and go camping with friends for a few days and the house catches fire!

My wife found Outbackers.com when we were researching RVs. This site played a part in our decision to buy an Outback and the knowledge we have gained here is priceless. But the most important thing that my family has received from this site is the friendships we have made all over the country. Our first rallies were in the southeast and we met many great people as well as a few that we didn't like quite as well as others. Par for the course from my experience with life. But what we didn't find was a bunch of mean/selfish people ruining the site for all of the others (at least until now). My children are still reading books given to them by Lamar (campingnut18) after his son had outgrown them.

We then moved to New England and met a whole different group of Outbackers with the same results. We, strangers, were met with open arms and offers of help before we moved, met any of them or even attended our first rally in New England. This place isn't just a community to us, it's a second family. Even though we don't post that much, we routinely read the forums. We have cried and rejoiced with people we have met and with many who we haven't met and likely never will meet as they experienced the highs and lows that life throws at all of us.

I was aware of some discontent with the forum after Doug took over from Vern. But, no one can please all of the people all of the time even in a small group, just ask my kids.








As the size of the group gets larger the task becomes even more difficult. Some people will feel picked on or discriminated against. But these unhappy people can go elsewhere and do not have to frequent Outbackers.com. Isn't it a great country we have!

I don't know really know what the issues are which have caused this to escalate to this point and it doesn't really matter. The reality is that someone has to take the responsibility to run a site like this. They have to put allot of time and money in it to make it work. If they make a few bucks, so what. They also have to make rules and enforce them to control members of the group who get out of hand. Running a site like this or any large group of people is a difficult task at best and you will always loose a few friends along the way. Maybe in an ideal world this wouldn't happen, but our world and those of us who populate it are far from ideal.

I personally believe that a site like this is better off run by a single person. A committee is an ungainly beast and eats time like it's going out of style. A committee can work, but it takes strong leadership.

Doug, I thank you for all of the effort you have given to this site and think that you have done a great job. But, family comes first without question.

This site has given my family so much and one way or another I know that will continue. If I can help to keep things running, let me know.

Jim


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## Mtn.Mike

I have been lax in participating in the forum lately. Since we are "camping" in my BIL's yard and have been since last year we aren't really camping in the truest sense of the word.
However I have started to visit the forum again and I too am surprised at what's happening. I too would like to know the other site so I can get an educated understanding on the last 15 pages of dialog in this ongoing saga.
If you read any of my posts you will see I'm not a "fighter" and I have no intention of bad mouthing anyone. I do love this forum and really wish that by paying some type of membership we could keep it "ad free".

If some one would email me the address of the other forum I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks, Mike


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## Calvin&Hobbes

Man.... I just spent two hours trying to get caught up with all these posts. Like Jim (Doft) said, We found Outbackers when we were looking for a new camper, and the DW liked the white cabinets. We were members before we actually took delivery of our 31 RQS. I feel bad that this situation got so bad that Doug had to pull the trigger. Inadvertantly, I was front row center sticking up for Outbackers, from a couple of the 1.5% last wednesday...they were in pack mentality mode. Next day, they were gone... I too, have been solicited- and I joined their site 3 years ago, thinking I could gain some additional insight. All I learned was that they can be like a bunch of teenagers when Mom and Dad left for the weekend. In those three years, I have posted 3 times. That site just wasn't my cup of tea.

Thank you Andy for standing up and calling out some of the 1.5%'s...Funny how many of them have failed to own up to their deeds. Thats OK, we know who you are, and when you post on these threads, your "shock" rings hollow. Do us all a favor, and just go away.



Oregon_Camper said:


> I haven't talked to Doug, so this thread might get blocked/removed.
> 
> I'm not one for sitting around hoping things work out. I'm telling everyone here, right now, I'm on board with the idea of taking part the group ownership of this site.
> 
> Who's with me?


Jim, and all the Outbackers who want this site to continue,

*Let's roll!
*
( and I hope I dont have to explain to someone why I italisised the font... )


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## Rocky25

I've only been using the site for about a week, but have already learned several valuable things from it. Let's keep it going!!!!!


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## Oregon_Camper

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> Jim, and all the Outbackers who want this site to continue,
> 
> *Let's roll!
> *
> ( and I hope I dont have to explain to someone why I italisised the font... )


OK...I'l bite, why did you use italics?


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## Calvin&Hobbes

Oregon_Camper said:


> Jim, and all the Outbackers who want this site to continue,
> 
> *Let's roll!
> *
> ( and I hope I dont have to explain to someone why I italisised the font... )


OK...I'l bite, why did you use italics?








[/quote]

Oh, lets just say I'm passionate!


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## egregg57

All, I have had time to think and calm down a bit. There are things I want to express now that I couldn't the other night when I originally posted.

I apologize for losing my temper. It takes a bit for that to happen with me and the thought of this site going away was enough to put me over the boiling point.

I hope maybe to explain and maybe it might help all of us refocus a bit.

Please bear with me.

1. Of all of the sites I have visited or that have popped up when I have searched for information etc Outbackers.com is unique. It is a simple uncluttered site. I like to think of Outbackers.com as a little green island in the middle of the Caribbean, white sand beaches, with a palm tree and you sitting in one of those nice chase lounges with a frosty concoction melting in you hand. There isn't any work, there isn't any problems, the world sort of melts away, the daily issues and dilemmas don't exist for the length of time you are here.

2. I like Outbackers because no matter where I am or what I am doing, whether I am not feeling well or had a tough day, I can come to Outbackers and find subjects and people that can take my mind off of whats eating me. You can enjoy something funny, Learn something new, share your experience, browse the many photos, look at mods, find out about campgrounds and live vicariously through another members wild story about their last trip. Even just for a few minutes its a nice escape.

3. I have been a member for several years and was around when Outbackers was sold. From my point of view not a lot changed. There were changes, I don't deny that, but the most important thing didn't change. The atmosphere. The atmosphere for me stayed the same and from my limited contact with Vern, and Doug, and the new people I was meeting at the time, there seemed to be excitement and happiness about the site and its future. From where I sit I can honestly say I am still happy.

4. Up until recently I felt that if all of the Outbackers members (SOB or not) had the vacation, time, and money, and inclination and there was a rally in Nebraska, in a corn Field in the middle of nowhere, we would get together. There would be campfires, laughter good food and drink. There would be stories and new rigs to show. Kids that had never met before would play in groups and their laughter would be heard for miles. The sun would set the coals would glow and more experiences would be shared. Camaraderie, friendship the feeling of belonging because that is what Outbackers is all about!

5. What angered me is that in the midst of this great place, this little green island, somebody set a fire. While some tried to put it out others fanned the flames. Even at the point when the fire seemed to be extinguished, the coals would be stirred and the fire would yet begin to burn again. This is not what Outbackers is about. And frankly I took it personally that some one was screwing with something that I looked forward to and enjoyed every day.

6. The focus has been taken off of what Outbackers is about. We have shifted from rallies and the newest mods to the specter of losing the site. From once close members and people we have shared time and experiences with to wondering who is friend or foe and why. We have for a short time become polarized. Changes have been considered and actions planned to protect and preserve Outbackers.com and it is a shame and almost inconceivable that we have come to that.

7. There is no doubt that there is huge support for the site. It is also apparent that there are some that do not agree with Doug or the site's direction or perhaps one or another issue. That is okay too. It's a free country. You are entitled to your opinion. But when things spiral out of control like we have here, we have people talking about lawyers, making ridiculous requests, pushing the Owner to a point that to protect himself and his family he has to consider shutting down this site..... Whoa.

How did any of you get there?

More importantly how do we get back to somewhere near where we were. Unfortunately this turn of events will effect all of us in some way. I hope we can minimize the impact. I hope that we can all take a deep breath, and exhale. Shake hands if possible, and if need be part ways. There has been enough anger, accusation, pain, and bad behavior.

If you don't like the site anymore and it isn't working for you, than I am sorry to hear that. I wish you well and hopefully you'll find something that suits you better. For the benefit of everyone involved, please end it there. The sooner we put this to bed, the sooner I can get to my frosty concoction.

Eric


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## johnp

I've been around here for a long time and have seen some of the good,bad,and the ugly. I am now an S.O.B but still love this site and the friendships I've made, some we have met others it would be difficult. This month has been an emotional rollercoaster for us and after the support I have recieved this month from members of this group I know we would still be able to go camping and enjoy it as much as we can with some changes. Was even standing around the campfire last night until after 1 am with Kevin trying get make sence of the situation regarding my daughters death (Thank you again Kevin). And to those at the rally that either knew or didn't you made this weekend enjoyable for us.

I really don't want this site to go down it has been a home for me for over five years now.

John


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## Calvin&Hobbes

Is there anyway we can "see" who the charter members are, who the contributers are, etc? This way we can get a feel for the numbers of people who maybe the membership/owners if it goes in that direction...


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## MO7Bs

Click on the members tab next to the search tab and then select the charter club from the drop down menu.


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## Carey

I have some thoughts that came to mind today..

I drive 650-800 miles every day out here..

I have been seeing many Outbacks this year... Many, many new ones with the new decals.. I would say the Outback is the number 2 RV brand behind Keystone Montana.. I see more of these two models than even Jayco..

The Keystone Montana has dominated the 5th wheel line for years.. I see tons and tons of them..

I really think the Outback brand RV will become the number 1 RV in the next few years because of its continued diversification that Keystone is doing with the brand..

With this happening it is very important that we all work together to get Doug the help he needs to make this place succeed.. I would bet that Outbackers.com has a chance of doubling or tripling in size in the next 5 years.. I think that the next 5 years could have its ups and down in both finance and union, but from what I see it has the support in both of those areas to never fail..

I really cant see what has happened go this bad again.. I really think "us" members has learned along with you Doug.. I mean look at all these posts.. People are not gonna have a problem with the master group using that "Ban" button when needed.. People are behind the master group here 110%.. So when you all need to make these decisions, I really think the vast majority of the members here will support your actions.. The proof to you guys is the 15 pages here on this subject..

With this upsurge coming we really have our work cut out all..

I believe in my heart we can get the "tar and feathers" off of Doug and make him feel like a new man again. With some of our help to Doug and a small family of owners to help spread the time and stress this place is going to place on this group it could be successfully done.. This small group could lean on eachother when needed, and not as easilly feel the stress that Doug has taken on by himself.

I hope Doug holds final control on decisions and choices and I hope the new owner family will allow this if its Dougs choice to still be the Captain of the ship..

Thats what came to my mind today and just wanted to express my thoughts.

Carey


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## Carey

Just read your new post Doug!

We're with ya! I'm glad we were given the chance to prove it.

Thanks for the dedication Doug!

I was confident... I shot me some movies today for my new blog... Cant wait to get home to get'er done!

Carey


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## john7349

OUTBACKERS.COM SAVED!

Good News indeed Doug! I hope the details are available soon...


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## Oregon_Camper

In case you missed Doug's post...

*Outbackers.com Lives On!*, The future of our community is secure!
http://www.outbackers.com/forums/index.php...ic=26623&hl=


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## Y-Guy

Good to hear.


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## Joonbee

That is awesome. I am still a little mad at myself. Been reading for 3 days in awe and usually find myself to be little more perceptive. Can't believe I was in the dark about all "the issues'. I have friends on both sides apparently and was not aware of any ill will. Guess we are all a little better educated going forward. Just happy to be going forward becasue I like the site and truly enjoy camping with my friends. Glad to see it may not be as bad as I have read over the last 3 days, because they have never felt it important enough to speak about outside of this forum. Speaks to their friendship and the sites moderating. Hope this all goes forward amicably and there will be no more need to be in the dark, like it sounds so many of us were. Just enjoying sharing camping info.

Time to get back to camping and lets all share a campfire.


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## rdvholtwood

Great News from Doug!!


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## Nathan

What great news!!!


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## clarkely

And Good Prevails!!!!


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## Acadia Hiker

Great news!!!!









And I'm a new lifetime member!!


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## Calvin&Hobbes

In my best Napolean Dynamite voice....

"...*Yes*.....!"


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## Sayonara

AWESOME NEWS !!!! THANKS DOUG !!! We are here for you !!


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## Chabbie1

That IS awesome!
Very glad our favorite site will go on!

Thanks Doug for all you do!


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## TexanThompsons

Yee-haw!

Great news! My DW and I both were already going into withdrawals.

Great site. Great information. Great people!


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## 5th Time Around

Yeah!!! Outbackers Lives On!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now lets get the party started!


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## KosinTrouble

MAN ALIVE!!!!! A guy goes camping for a few days, then comes into work and goes to read his forums while drinking his coffee and I get the following... (Summary version of course).

OUTBACKERS IS CLOSING...

lots of forum drama and 16 pages of a thread

OUTBACKERS IS SAVED....

*puts in eyedrops for the next 16pages of threads to read*

I am sad that there is this much drama behind the scenes. I know its not hard running these types of forums. But the only advice I can give is this. It is your site, you bought and paid for the site. You have your vision, so do it. Some people will love your vision others will hate it. Some people will like what you do others wont. You want to have a paid membership its up to you, it is your site. How you want to spend that money is up to you. You want to give benefits to this memebership, its up to you its your site. You are the owner of the website you are the one paying for it, so its your decision to make. You make the rules you apply or do not apply the rules. You appoint the people you want to be mod's because its your site. If I do not like it I wont come here. If I am offended I can leave or I can stay here and complain about it till I get booted. If I get booted its your decision, its your site.

Now that being said, I love this site. I love the fact that there is so much discussion and very little swearing, talking down to people. I love everyone gives their opionons and people can then make thier decissions based on that. I have no problem with it being modorated by a heavy hand or light hand. What I dont want to read is people saying, "You are an idiot. Go do a search. You moron. %$(*# f$%#) " every second sentance.

If people dont like this "community" which someone has paid is paying for, then we can stay or we can leave. But we have to remember we dont own the rights to this site. This site is registered to a person and that person pays the bills and he OWNS the site. So what he decides is what is going to happen.

I personaly like the way it has been run. I have been here a long time and will continue to be here a long time. If someone pm's me the other site, I will go check it out. I will look there for information that I seek just like I will look here. This isnt my only place for information, but it is where i come to find friends and people that I like. So I will always come here.

I support no one site or no one person. I support the community that has came about here because a person bought and paid for this site and allows us to use it!

Kos


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## ORvagabond

I also felt terrible saddness when I read Dougs blog after being offline for several days. It is with relief that it will live on. Thanks to all of you that helped make this happen!


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## Rip

Rip is on board







Now a Life Time member !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! # 72


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too

WOO HOO! YIPPEE SKIPPEE!










So, am I suppose to be crying? This is just "a forum" ...right?









This is the bestest news ever! We Love You Doug!

So funny, when I first read about the forum closing, my world started going in slow motion, you know, when you are trying to absorb the impossible that's happening. THEN, today it happened again when I read that it's NOT closing!


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## Scottyfish

Through all of this, I think there has been and will be a "cleansing". Glad to see we will be moving on and continuing the happy trails!


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## thefulminator

Most of the people who have posted on this thread seem to need this community for one reason or another. So when the community needed us, we stepped up and now Outbackers.com will live on.

Just went to charter status myself. From my count, five have been added since last night. If anyone else is planning on doing it you had better get it done before they are all gone.


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## Oregon_Camper

Scottyfish said:


> Through all of this, I think there has been and will be a "cleansing". Glad to see we will be moving on and continuing the happy trails!


You'll get banned for sure with that UGLY signature picture. That is on par with porn.

_edit...it was a HUGE UofO picture for those of you that missed it before he took it off)
_
(seriously...you do need to adjust the size...it is too big)


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## Scottyfish

I am trying, but it is fighting me. It wants to stay BIG!


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## Oregon_Camper

Scottyfish said:


> I am trying, but it is fighting me. It wants to stay BIG!


Typical U of O reply....


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## Scottyfish

Jealousy....now this topic is really off base!


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## Ridgway-Rangers

Thank you to everyone in touch with Doug who helped save our site.







A HUGE thanks to Doug to sticking to his guns.








I love how the tension is lifted and humor is back among us!









Thank you all,
Brian


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## leaderdogmom

A big thanks to Doug and everyone working behind the scenes for all you have done these past few days. I know I speak for many who are so very grateful to be able to keep this site going. Great job!!!!


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## thefulminator

Scottyfish,

Here is an image proudly posted next to my OSU stuff at work.










Is this big enough for you?


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## Oregon_Camper

Now that picture IS allowed in your signature file...and I might add it to mine too.


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## Scottyfish

Oregon_Camper said:


> Now that picture IS allowed in your signature file...and I might add it to mine too.


Your high level of disdain towards my GREAT school shows that we are doing very well, as compared to the lesser, small-town school that happens to share property in the same State. 







Am I to assume that you may be part of the new "administration" to "control" the content of this site???? I know Doug requested that speculation should not occur, but this statement is much too revealing.


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## Oregon_Camper

Scottyfish said:


> Now that picture IS allowed in your signature file...and I might add it to mine too.


Am I to assume that you may be part of the new "administration" to "control" the content of this site???? I know Doug requested that speculation should not occur, but this statement is much too revealing.








[/quote]

Nope...just stating the rules.

Duck - Not allowed
Beavers - Allowed.

Pretty simple if you ask me.


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## Scottyfish

I see a new thread on the horizon to further draw this line.....


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## OregonCampin

What an emotional morning...

I came on this morning with the intention of seeing what everyone did this weekend. I would probably just lurk like I normally do...post here and there... tease OC about his Beavers.... check on the adventures of Wolfwood.... you know, the usual. I am getting ready to log on and notice Doug's messages and think to my self... WOW - Doug needs to go camping!!







Then I start reading... I believe that I suffered almost every emotion known in a few short minutes. Sadness, Anger....more anger, disbelieve, anger...ok - mostly anger, but you get the drift.

Then.... in the Outback way, I push out my chest and say.... "I will not let it fail"... I know absolutely nothing about websites, how to manage them, etc, but even though I don't participate much, this place is like home to me.

Then I read on... THANK YOU TO WHOMEVER IT WAS / IS THAT IS MAKING THIS SITE CONTINUE! I will be buying my Koala membership today. I do not know much about forum management, moding, etc, but I do have a really strong marketing background... need fliers, need cards, want to find other items to sell for a profit? If you want to set up a larger store that sells more than just Outbacker's stuff (ie - other camping related stuff) let me know... I am more than willing to help in whatever way I can... that and I have a DH that is a programmer - need code? Let me know!! He also runs an 85 user worldwide server along with a separate web and mail server... it he can help, please let me know. Our time is limited, but we are willing to put in what we can.

I am only going here once... and I will never bring it up again. To the group that cannot just move on... the collective outbackers will prevail!

Shannon


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## Scottyfish

Looks like there are 70 Charter Members, leaving 30 slots still available to those who said they wanted to become a "bigger part" of the site.


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too

Scottyfish said:


> Now that picture IS allowed in your signature file...and I might add it to mine too.


Your high level of disdain towards my GREAT school shows that we are doing very well, as compared to the lesser, small-town school that happens to share property in the same State.







Am I to assume that you may be part of the new "administration" to "control" the content of this site???? I know Doug requested that speculation should not occur, but this statement is much too revealing.








[/quote]

Now that is funny!


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## john7349

Scottyfish said:


> Looks like there are 70 Charter Members, leaving 30 slots still available to those who said they wanted to become a "bigger part" of the site.


WOW! I just counted 72 members at 12:01P.M. 28 slots left..... Going fast. Now thats good news.


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## Jelly Donut

Scottyfish said:


> Looks like there are 70 Charter Members, leaving 30 slots still available to those who said they wanted to become a "bigger part" of the site.


I just became a PROUD Charter Member (I think I was number 79), so only 21 slots left!

Although I'm new to Outbackers and camping in general, and really don't have any information/knowledge as to what went on, I thank everyone that is keeping this site up and running! It has been a awesome tool and fun as well.

So, Thanks to you all for pushing forward and I look forward to OUR future!!


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too

Just curious: has there ever been a thread with as many reviews in the same amount of time?


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## KosinTrouble

I just became a Charter Member as well. I am more a lurker and just post about funny stories about my camping trips, but I think that will have to change now! I have no idea what number I am.

Kos


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## Scottyfish

With the kind of passion and emotions that have been involved over the past few days, I would say no. This probably has to be at the top when compared to all of the forums out in Cyberspace!


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## Acadia Hiker

ORANGE is the new Outbacker color! Look at all of those Koalas...


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## Oregon_Camper

Acadia Hiker said:


> ORANGE is the new Outbacker color! Look at all of those Koalas...


Gotta love the Black and Orange.


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## Sayonara

Oregon_Camper said:


> ORANGE is the new Outbacker color! Look at all of those Koalas...


Gotta love the Black and Orange.
[/quote]
*
Good Grief......I saw that coming...







*


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## PDX_Doug

Scottyfish said:


> I am trying, but it is fighting me. It wants to stay BIG!


I can hardly see it now...


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## thefulminator

> Your high level of disdain towards my GREAT school shows that we are doing very well, as compared to the lesser, small-town school that happens to share property in the same State. Am I to assume that you may be part of the new "administration" to "control" the content of this site???? I know Doug requested that speculation should not occur, but this statement is much too revealing.


I think disdain is not the right word. Coming from a university that graduates Engineers, Veterinarians and Scientists, I have a difficult time giving any validation to a school that's primary output is Lawyers and Liberal Artists with a minor in hemp growing. I think the right word it pity







.

Also, the Koala Club colors are not just orange, but orange, white and black.


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## Scottyfish

No if you look along the bottom, you will notice that your name and the other Koala Club members' names are in lovely *GREEN!

*And, I as a U of O graduate, do possess a science degree. As a matter of fact, there is a huge portion of the campus dedicated to Geology, Mathematics, Chemistry, Geography, Physics, Computer Science, etc. I could go on and on....

As a side note, I am very glad to see that we are back to arguing about topics like this (friendly argument for the most part) instead of how this thread started!


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## Scottyfish

PDX_Doug said:


> I am trying, but it is fighting me. It wants to stay BIG!


I can hardly see it now...
[/quote]

I can change it back if you wish.....


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## MO7Bs

Boy this thread has really taken a turn for the worse!!!

















(Just kidding...Go Roos!!!)


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## tdvffjohn

Outback Roos, I assume


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## thefulminator

It's interesting that your avatar is orange, white and black.

As Luke said to Darth Vader:

_Search your feelings, Father, you can't do this. I feel the conflict within you. Let go of your hate._

For the rest of you, consider the hijack of this thread to be finished on my part. This "discussion" can be continued another day.


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## swanny

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To Doug and everyone involved

*GO PENN STATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!* Just putting out some feelers.

Swanny


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## Nathan

I'm ok with any 'O' that isn't red and gray. whistling


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## clarkely

swanny said:


> *GO PENN STATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
> Swanny


X200%


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## swanny

now thats what I'm talkin about


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## MO7Bs

tdvffjohn said:


> Outback Roos, I assume


That's very fitting, but alas, not so. I graduated from UMKC (University of Missour at Kansas City) home of the Fighting Kangaroos. And I ended up buying an Outback and joining a club called Kaola's Club.

And, get this, my son is heading to Australia, Syndey to be exact (and I bought a Sydney Edition) in 10 days.

And, no, this was not designed, just happened. Life can be odd.


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## OregonCampin

Oregon_Camper said:


> Nope...just stating the rules.
> 
> Duck - Not allowed
> Beavers - Allowed.
> 
> Pretty simple if you ask me.


I used to think I liked you.....


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## wolfwood

OREGONCAMPIN said:


> Nope...just stating the rules.
> 
> Duck - Not allowed
> Beavers - Allowed.
> 
> Pretty simple if you ask me.


I used to think I liked you.....








[/quote]
Man...I've seen that happen over and over through the years. What a shame


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## Camping Fan

Nathan said:


> I'm ok with any 'O' that isn't red and gray. whistling


*x* *2*


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## rdvholtwood

clarkely said:


> *GO PENN STATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
> Swanny


X200%
[/quote]

x300%

C'mon Mike where are ya?


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## Sayonara

Camping Fan said:


> I'm ok with any 'O' that isn't red and gray. whistling


*x* *2*
[/quote]

*I COULDNT AGREE MORE.....sort of.....*


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## Partsman Ed

Count us in!!!


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## beachbum

It does not look like any of the mods are in!! What's up with that?? 
david


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## PDX_Doug

beachbum said:


> It does not look like any of the mods are in!! What's up with that??
> david


The Moderators are in, because they are Moderators. They are not listed as Charter Members, but they have been given the same benefits (including lifetime memberships) as a way of saying _"Thanks for all you do for this community!"_

Happy Trails,
Doug


----------

