# Adding Power To Trailer



## Wisconsin-Knight (Mar 10, 2011)

There are several topics dealing with the need for more power in order to add additional A/C to an Outback. Our first trip with our newly purchased used Outback was the factory rally in Northern Indiana. It took my wife about 20 minutes to blow the circuit breaker on the pole by running the A/C, water heater, refrigerator and trying to use the microwave. Stan, who was camping next to us informed us that if we were going to run the A/C and water heater on electricity, we could not use another appliance. After blowing the inside breaker and the one on the pole once more, I knew that this was an unacceptable situation. Since I had just replaced the element in the water heater, I knew the easiest way to add another 20 amps to the trailer was to take the water heater off the circuit and plug it into an extension cord.

I purchased a really heavy rubber cord at Home Depot and ran it to a box I installed in the front of our 21RS under the front closet, near the water heater. I thought I could use a 3-way switch and just switch the hot lines, but that won't work because the ground fault trips and the 20 amp circuit breaker trips. I had to use a double pole double throw switch that I got at Global Industries online. I purchased a 30 amp switch made by Bryant for $50.00 delivered. It is high quality, distributed by Hubbell, and works great. The wiring on the switch is not what you would expect so if anyone wants more information about how to do this, please feel free to email me.

I really think that these trailers need about 50 amps if they are going to have air conditioners and electric water heaters and expect to do anything else.

Rowland


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## Chuggs (Jun 8, 2010)

I thought about doing a changeover to 50 amps... But swapping out the distribution box, feed wiring, inlet, shore power cord, converter compatible with the 50amp distribution box...hmmm for what? So I can turn on the microwave for 5 minutes without turning off the water heater?? Not worth it to me.

I would use that Hubbel Switch IF I did have a 50 amp RV. I would put the 2nd a/c unit on it to select between L2 of a 50amp RV shore power connection from the distribution panel or a separate 20amp shore power inlet when the campground only offers the 30amp/20amp outlets.

With a 30amp rv...just a seperate 20amp power inlet/ fused cutoff/ and direct wiring to the 2nd a/c unit. I personally have been planning this for a future project. I'll put the inlet up inside the pinbox...mount the service disconnect inside the basement...and route the wires up the kitchen wall and into the attic for the 2nd a/c unit. The shore cord for this 20amp single purpose circuit would be easy to connect to a generator in the truck bed. Should I stop for lunch...crank it up an run the a/c unit when we stop.

The next item for me to research is where the roof starts to slope down...is there room for a unit there without disturbing the ductwork in the bedroom?...How difficult will it be to add bracing where needed to support the 2nd a/c?...without ripping down the ceiling panels?? I hope??

Another consideration is... Will the 2nd a/c unit cause the primary unit to shut off prematurely, because the thermostat is actually behind the bedroom door...where the second a/c may unduly influence it.

Decisions, decisions...

I do know there have been a few times that I really wish we had a second unit though. It's gotten up to 84 degrees inside with the single a/c unit running full tilt. We keep it set at 75 degrees, usually. Obviously, it's not keeping up.

With a fully charged battery...(so the converter isn't pulling a high load)...I can run everything in the RV..

A/C
Fridge
Water Heater
2 TV sets
Stereo
Assorted Lights
Antenna Booster

and stay under 30 amps...

The only thing I'm not using is...the Water Pump (usually using city water connectino) and the Microwave. All we have to do is turn the water heater off...and use the microwave...when the air conditioning is already running. We haven't had any problem with this so far. If we did...I would suspect a shore power pole problem. IE Low voltage or oxidized/corroded contacts)

If you continue to have problems...you might get a clamp meter to see what your rv is really pulling. If the 30amp breaker is tripping prematurely...you may need to replace the breaker.


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## therink (May 13, 2010)

My 2010 Sydney Fiver has 50amp service. Ihave camped in maybe 15 campgrounds with it since new and have only been able to plug into 50amp service once. Most campgrounds in my area only have 30amp or limited 50amp, so not much point in having 50 if I can't use it. 
I also noticed many campground power poles that have both 30 &20 amp receptacles can only handle 30amp draw (depending on the power feed source).


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

You could go 50 amp or you can find a manufacturer that will install an Energy Management System. I'm sure some trailers have them, when we bought our Winnebago I was skeptical of the EMS. I'd have our Outback with 30amp with 1 A/C & HWH and our Raptor with 50amp with 2 A/C, HWH, etc. But Having had the RV for going on 4 years now I will say the EMS works great. If I I'm running the dual A/C, HWH and I fire up the Microwave it shuts down the HWH and the compressors of the A/C so power can be diverted to the Microwave, then when it's done running things power back up in sequence.

Though the Electric HWH is nice, its draws a lot of amps - I often just opt to run in on gas when are running the space heaters in the winter.

Having had to drag that beast of a 50amp cord around I'd much rather deal with 30amp unless I was a full timer.

We all learned this from Green Acres... you do remember that show I hope








You Can't Plug In a 2 With a 6


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## Wisconsin-Knight (Mar 10, 2011)

My wife and I have been tent campers all our lives. My favorite camps have been on canoe camping trips in the backwoods of Canada. Since we plan to live a couple months in Florida this winter, I am making a lot of modifications to our 21RS, which we think is pretty deluxe compared to our previous trailer which was 19 ft. without a slideout. I don't want a trailer that requires two A/C units. I don't want to replace the power supply with a 50 amp power supply for a couple thousand dollars, I just want to run my A/C and hot water heater and not have to remember to shut off the water heater every time I want to run another appliance. I do not have a weak 30 amp circuit breaker, I can run the refrigerator, TV, radio, water heater and A/C without any problem. I just can't run an additional appliance without my $50.00 modification. Now I can. If you can't get enough A/C, what with climate change, a person might consider getting a smaller trailer. The EMS solution sounds like an elegant way to go, if I can get one for $50.00 or so, I will look into it. If you want to add another A/C unit, I suggest hooking up the A/C unit to the hot water heater circuit and running the hot water heater power outside. You can always run the water heater on propane, you can't run the A/C on propane if there is only 30 amps total available.
I have a dog bone adapter for 50 amps going to 30 amps and another adapter that goes from 30 amps to a 115 volt receptacle if there is no 20 amp receptacle available. Worse case, I can always go to another campground or motel. Bottom line is I like doing modifications that I can do myself to
solve a problem and I was just sharing my experience in changing to 50 amp service cheaply and easily.


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

I usually run our fridge on propane. It doesn't use much and seems to work better than on electric anyway.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

You can run the entire trailer on propane and battery with the exception of the AC and Microwave. If it were me I would run the water heater and fridge (works better anyway) on gas.


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## Wisconsin-Knight (Mar 10, 2011)

Running on gas may be the way to do it. I am new to this type of camping and I am anticipating spending a month at a time at two campgrounds this winter. It seemed to me that there would be less hassle to use electricity. I don't know what propane consumption is for a water heater and/or refrigerator. I'll be spending a couple thousand a month for camping fees, seemed to me perhaps saving $20.00 on propane would be a good idea. My modification allows use of the water heater on the internal supply or an exterior 20 amp supply. I was surprised to learn that there was not enough power in the trailer to run everything you want to run, so I decided to rectify that. My fix is simple and works well.

Rowland


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Here are the use rates.

Fridge use is about 1.5 pounds per day on average.

Furnace use is about 1.5 pounds per hour, it does not matter what temperature it is set on it matters how long it runs.

Water Heater is about .5 pounds per hour, again this is based on running time.

Stove/oven is in the range of .25 pounds per hour.

Just remember if you are trying to save on propane use and use an electic space heater you may not be able to run the toaster and coffee pot at the same time as the microwave either.


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## funbikerchick (Jun 6, 2011)

I do most of my camping at sites without hookups. I usually only do one 10 day trip and the rest weekends. I can do all of that camping running my fridge and water heater on just one tank of propane.

The creative solution by the OP sounds good and works for him. I am not that "creative" so I will probably just use propane for fridge and water even when hooked up to utilities to avoid the problem.

Tena


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## Wisconsin-Knight (Mar 10, 2011)

Thanks for the information regarding usage. I am perhaps over reacting to a couple circuit breaker trips, but neither my wife nor I wish to remember to turn the water heater off or back on. Also, I like running my water heater and refrigerator on electricity. I will use electric space heaters and will probably only run them in the morning. If I warm the trailer up, the furnace should carry it through the day with minimal usage. If I am not running the A/C, I will really be in good shape, I can run my water heater off the external power and two 15 amp heaters inside.

Rowland


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

CamperAndy said:


> Here are the use rates.
> 
> Fridge use is about 1.5 pounds per day on average.


Andy...I know you said on average, but I just got back from a 10 day camping trip (dry camping of course) and I ran the frig...cooked some...and ran heater in the morning for about 20 mins each morning...used hot water heater for showers and I started with 2 full tanks, and never switched over to the second tank. Lifting the 1st tank, tells me there is about 1/3 of a tank remaining. I think we need to get some updated "average" numbers....perhaps the newer models have more efficient appliances...??


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Oregon_Camper said:


> Here are the use rates.
> 
> Fridge use is about 1.5 pounds per day on average.


Andy...I know you said on average, but I just got back from a 10 day camping trip (dry camping of course) and I ran the frig...cooked some...and ran heater in the morning for about 20 mins each morning...used hot water heater for showers and I started with 2 full tanks, and never switched over to the second tank. Lifting the 1st tank, tells me there is about 1/3 of a tank remaining. I think we need to get some updated "average" numbers....perhaps the newer models have more efficient appliances...??
[/quote]

Depending on the ambient you could use much less, If you were camping in cool weather and you must have been since you had to run the furnace in the morning you could have used as little as .5 pound a day for the fridge.

Get the actual weight of the propane tank and then we can see what your average usage was.


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## CJ999 (Aug 11, 2005)

Oregon_Camper said:


> Andy...I know you said on average, but I just got back from a 10 day camping trip (dry camping of course) and I ran the frig...cooked some...and ran heater in the morning for about 20 mins each morning...used hot water heater for showers and I started with 2 full tanks, and never switched over to the second tank. Lifting the 1st tank, tells me there is about 1/3 of a tank remaining. I think we need to get some updated "average" numbers....perhaps the newer models have more efficient appliances...??


This is consistent with what I see when we camp in the summer as well and I run my trailer about the same way. I really wouldn't even think of running the water heater on electricty since I just turn it on in the evening before we take showers, and gas gets the water hot in a snap compared to electric.


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## raynardo (Jun 8, 2007)

Occasionally we'll blow the campground circuit at our site if we run the A/C and the microwave with the water heater, TV and refrigerator running 110/120 .

I know that water in the water heater tank will stay warm enough for use for hours.

So, if we need to run all those appliances, we turn off the A/C for the few minutes it takes to microwave dinner or whatever. No big deal, I can live with that.

I found that the newer RV parks seem more likely to handle the entire load without a problem. Also, when I plug into a 50amp circuit with an adapter on my 30amp plug, I never have a problem with all those electrical devices on.


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## Jewellfamily (Sep 25, 2010)

I always run my hot water heater and fridge on propane. Both seem to perform better on propane than on electric (at least in my rig)...


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## hautevue (Mar 8, 2009)

Plugging your 30 amp shore power into the campground 50a socket with an adapter does not increase the max draw of the TT. The main circuit breaker in the power panel should trip when the current draw exceeds about 30 amps. That protects the power converter and wiring.

Best bet is to simply turn off the hot water heater electric, and not run the a/c when trying to microwave. We find we can do just fine without a/c for the 10 minutes or so that we need the microwave.


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## Wisconsin-Knight (Mar 10, 2011)

hautevue said:


> Plugging your 30 amp shore power into the campground 50a socket with an adapter does not increase the max draw of the TT. The main circuit breaker in the power panel should trip when the current draw exceeds about 30 amps. That protects the power converter and wiring.
> 
> Best bet is to simply turn off the hot water heater electric, and not run the a/c when trying to microwave. We find we can do just fine without a/c for the 10 minutes or so that we need the microwave.


The deal is we are old, old, old! We can not remember to turn off the AC, and if we do, we can not remember to turn it back on again. If we turn off the water heater and don't remember to turn it back on, we are without hot water when we want it. I just run an extra extension cord to the power post and for the next thirty days I don't have to remember anything. (And I usually don't!) We have recently camped with this setup and boy is it painless!

Rowland


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## hautevue (Mar 8, 2009)

Wisconsin-Knight said:


> Plugging your 30 amp shore power into the campground 50a socket with an adapter does not increase the max draw of the TT. The main circuit breaker in the power panel should trip when the current draw exceeds about 30 amps. That protects the power converter and wiring.
> 
> Best bet is to simply turn off the hot water heater electric, and not run the a/c when trying to microwave. We find we can do just fine without a/c for the 10 minutes or so that we need the microwave.


The deal is we are old, old, old! We can not remember to turn off the AC, and if we do, we can not remember to turn it back on again. If we turn off the water heater and don't remember to turn it back on, we are without hot water when we want it. I just run an extra extension cord to the power post and for the next thirty days I don't have to remember anything. (And I usually don't!) We have recently camped with this setup and boy is it painless!

Rowland
[/quote]

What appliance is on the other end of your extension cord?


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