# Yet Another Crash



## WillTy3 (Jul 20, 2004)

http://www.wboc.com/global/story.asp?s=7180318

Will


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## 3LEES (Feb 18, 2006)

Very sad.

Of course we don't get all the particulars from the report, but it looks like a Ford "EXPLODER" is the TV.

Just a layman's opinion here...WAY too much trailer for that SUV.


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## Mgonzo2u (Aug 3, 2004)

It was a 32' trailer being pulled by an older model Ford Explorer.

Sorry, I'll say it, that is just plain STOOPID and the driver (and wife) should have their driving privileges revoked for endangering the public at large.


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## webeopelas (Mar 11, 2006)

You are absolutely correct. People just don't realize the difference between a SUV built on a truck frame like the Tahoe/Expedition and those made on a car frame like the Explorer/Trailblazer. I had a car salesman try and sell me an extended Trailblazer with 4.10 gears to tow our original 21 ft KZ sportsman. I told her she was crazy if she thought I was going to put a 5000lb trailer behind a car frame.

Not to say that there wasn't plenty I didn't know the first time I bought a trailer, but the way some dealers sell trailers is almost criminal.


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## Lady Di (Oct 28, 2005)

Yeah, that does happen. About 2 weeks ago there was a crash involving a tt on I-80, not too far from here. Never had too many details though.

Glad they weren't seriously injured.


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

Sure glad I didn't have to run to Salisbury today.

As stated above.... "People are stoopid"

Tim


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

In some states -- and the list is growing -- if the Police investigate and detrmine that either the truck was overloaded -- or the trailer you were pulling exceeded the published tow capabilites of the truck --

then bad things can happen after you have a wreck ...

CIVIL -

1. YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY LAUGHS AT YOU AND WALKS AWAY -- LEGALLY - not having to pay a cent.. ...

2. Your next insurance company will jack up your next coverage faster then Britney Spears can get to Vegas for a drink.

3. You hit someone -- your insurance company does NOT have to cover you -- the person you hit sues you for everything you own, your kids own, their kids own, and your dog owns.

There was a case like this about 2 months ago that a jury awarded an injured Security Officer who was directing traffic when a TV carrying a TT that was too heavy tried to stop -- slid -- and hit the man ---- didn't kill him -- just broke his back and some stuff -- the insurance company was absolved from all the responsibility and the Security Guard got a good lawyer that won 1.75 MILLION damages -- the guy with the overloaded TV will now pay an intial 180,000 and then 25,000 a year for the rest of his life for that mistake -- or go to prison. He had to sell his house to cover the court costs -- six months later his wife left him. And to add insult to injury -- sued him for everything he had left. -- and WON...

CRIMINAL -

1. You violated State law by being overloaded. The State seizes your truck and keeps it / sells it, makes you responsible for paying for any damages caused to the roadway, and they charge you for the time the POLICE and Fire and EMS lost and then after all of that -- still put you in JAIL.

So the moral is -- the next time you are about to tell someone that says -- Hey I want to get a 32 foot trailer and have a jeep -- can i tow with it -- and you are about to say "SURE GO AHEAD -- HAVE FUN" -- well make sure that they have a good lawyer...

PS -- The guy who hit the Security Officer -- even if the insurance company had not walked away -- only had 100,000 in Liability -- so he still would have been responsible for 1,650,000. So many people have so little coverage -- and the insurance comapnies like it -- the make most of their money on minimal coverage --


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

And i felt uncomfortable with my 32BHDS behind my '04 F150 SuperCrew.... glad they are alive, and did not involve anyone else.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

Mgonzo2u said:


> It was a 32' trailer being pulled by an older model Ford Explorer.
> 
> Sorry, I'll say it, that is just plain STOOPID and the driver (and wife) should have their driving privileges revoked for endangering the public at large.


Yup! this question appears on this forum quite regularly, "We just bought a 25RSS and our dealer told us that our Tahoe would pull it just fine. What do you folks think?"

I always reply with a standard line - that the Tahoe (or Expy, or Durango, etc) probably will pull it, but not reliably or safely. Just because you CAN does not mean you SHOULD. I know that there are plenty of people here who pull their Outbacks with SUVs and 1/2-ton pick-ups, and they report that their TVs do just fine - that they see no need to trade up to a 3/4-ton TV.

But my thoughts are - especially after having pulled our 29BHS with a 1/2-ton Suburban - every time you do, you are rolling the dice. The fact is that even though the marketing hype from all the truck manufacturers brags about what their truck is capable of, the suspension on a 1/2-ton vehicle is not designed to safely pull a full size travel trailer (might be OK for a 20' trailer, but even that's pushing it).

There's more to towing a trailer than the power train being capable of the load and the WD hitch spreading out the tongue weight. People need to realize that they have a 20+ foot long sail behind them that weights no less than 4500# (and some 10,000+#). And when the trailer starts getting squirrely from cross winds, over-correction on steering, swerving to avoid an object - or any one of a hundred other things that can come at you at 60+ mph (a lot of which are other STOOPID drivers), a 1/2-ton TV will struggle to control the resulting forces of the trailer tugging in a direction that you do not wish to go - even with a very experienced driver.

Towing only in the flatlands doesn't make it any safer, either, just less of a strain on your power train.

As Ghosty stated earlier - if you have an accident and the police determine that you exceeded the tow ratings of your vehicle, then your insurance company is off the hook. And insurance companies being what they are, they will dig to find ANY excuse to avoid a payout. So that leaves you holding the bag. And that's not to mention the social and family responsibility aspect.

Now I'm sure that someone here will take offense at my statements, and for that, I apologize in advance. But I only write this because I am not only concerned about their safety (and that of their family), but also the safety of others on the road. So if I offend, but make you think twice, it's worth the digital tongue-lashing I might receive.

Just P-L-E-A-S-E be careful out there!

Mike


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## Airboss (Jul 14, 2007)

When are we going to start holding the dealers accountable? I say, if they tell a customer that they can tow a 32' TT with a Ford Explorer, then they should ultimately be responsible. Yes, consumers should educate themselves better, but who is supposed to be the expert here? Who can the consumer count on to answer their towing questions, if not the dealer?


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

I bet if you carried a tape recorder to the dealer when asking questions, you might get better answers.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

I couldn't tell from the size of the picture if it was an Explorer, or an Expedition, but in any case a 32ft trailer is way to big for any SUV!











Airboss said:


> When are we going to start holding the dealers accountable? I say, if they tell a customer that they can tow a 32' TT with a Ford Explorer, then they should ultimately be responsible.


I respectfully disagree. While the dealers should face some liability if they instruct a customer that a sub-par vehicle will safely tow a given rig, the *ultimate responsibility* lies squarely in the operators lap. Just like the pilot of a plane or the captain of a boat, when it comes down to it, the final decision - and responsibility - is theirs, and theirs alone.

Fortunately, in this case, they walked away.

Happy Trails,
Doug

Hmm... Maybe we should start a forum on here for just this kind of story. Having all these examples in a central location might be an easy way to add a little weight to the suggestions that we regularly offer regarding TV/TT compatibility and safety concerns.


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## MaeJae (May 12, 2005)

PDX_Doug said:


> When are we going to start holding the dealers accountable? I say, if they tell a customer that they can tow a 32' TT with a Ford Explorer, then they should ultimately be responsible.


I respectfully disagree. While the dealers should face some liability if they instruct a customer that a sub-par vehicle will safely tow a given rig, the *ultimate responsibility* lies squarely in the operators lap. Just like the pilot of a plane or the captain of a boat, when it comes down to it, the final decision - and responsibility - is theirs, and theirs alone.

Fortunately, in this case, they walked away.

Happy Trails,
Doug

Hmm... Maybe we should start a forum on here for just this kind of story. Having all these examples in a central location might be an easy way to add a little weight to the suggestions that we regularly offer regarding TV/TT compatibility and safety concerns.









[/quote]

If you hold "ctrl" and scroll up... your browser will enlarge the picture.
You will then see that the vehicle is an Explorer!!!

MaeJae


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## ntputter17 (Aug 17, 2007)

Even though it is a FORD, I have a hard time beliving that an Explorer could get a 7000+lb trailer out of the driveway, much less the hwy. We are taking the report for granted that it was a 32' trailer and not a 18' or 20'.......The info given says 32', but that may be wrong. In the words of the immortal Mike Tyson, trying to pull a 32' trailer with an Explorer would be "Ludicrisp"........

Kirk


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## battalionchief3 (Jun 27, 2006)

Like a ranger pulling a 5er.......NOTHING ever suprises me, in my line of work you will be amazed at the stupid things people will do.... Just hope no one was injured and they learned from their mistake.


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

I had some moron fly by me doing at least 90 with a ranger towing a swaying popup. Like RT93 in NH doesn't have enough idiots on a holiday weekend. I was towing with the flow in the right lane doing 70 the left was at about 85 with lots of traffic. I told DW all it will take is one moron to make this look like a bad day at Talladega.

John


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## jwell43 (Apr 5, 2007)

Nice!


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

ntputter17 said:


> Even though it is a FORD, I have a hard time beliving that an Explorer could get a 7000+lb trailer out of the driveway, much less the hwy. We are taking the report for granted that it was a 32' trailer and not a 18' or 20'.......The info given says 32', but that may be wrong. In the words of the immortal Mike Tyson, trying to pull a 32' trailer with an Explorer would be "Ludicrisp"........
> 
> Kirk


TL did a review with an explorer towing a 28'TT (I beleive). It was the new body with the new 4.6L engine, but I guess the point is that it can be done frome a weight perspective







. Most customers will say a vechicle "can't pull" a certain weight when in fact it can. I can assure you that if a domestic manufacturer says a vehicle can tow XXX lbs, they have done it (meeting all other requirements as well). They never say you will be happy with the performance, just that it will move







. 
What I wish is that they would provide guidance for the max length of the trailer (or some other dimension)that would make our lives easier in picking a TV. Back to this topic, I'm just glad no one was hurt too seriously. Defiently way to much sail for that type of vehicle!

P.S. That MY explorer was a modified Ranger frame, NOT a car chassis.


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## webeopelas (Mar 11, 2006)

Nathan said:


> Even though it is a FORD, I have a hard time beliving that an Explorer could get a 7000+lb trailer out of the driveway, much less the hwy. We are taking the report for granted that it was a 32' trailer and not a 18' or 20'.......The info given says 32', but that may be wrong. In the words of the immortal Mike Tyson, trying to pull a 32' trailer with an Explorer would be "Ludicrisp"........
> 
> Kirk


TL did a review with an explorer towing a 28'TT (I beleive). It was the new body with the new 4.6L engine, but I guess the point is that it can be done frome a weight perspective







. Most customers will say a vechicle "can't pull" a certain weight when in fact it can. I can assure you that if a domestic manufacturer says a vehicle can tow XXX lbs, they have done it (meeting all other requirements as well). They never say you will be happy with the performance, just that it will move







. 
What I wish is that they would provide guidance for the max length of the trailer (or some other dimension)that would make our lives easier in picking a TV. Back to this topic, I'm just glad no one was hurt too seriously. Defiently way to much sail for that type of vehicle!

*P.S. That MY explorer was a modified Ranger frame, NOT a car chassis. *








[/quote]
Well... I wouldn't exactly call a Ranger a truck frame either. Very possible that the frame came from one of the Ford cars as well.


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

Let us not forget that the right truck for the right job is important but also the hitch set-up itself including the brake controller.

I know when I got my new TV and/or Tt the set-up can change and it takes me about 2-3 adjustments before I get it just right. I now have a set route that I pull to test my set-up. Ball height, ball pitch, weight distribution, sway control set-up can make a real difference.

Also another factor ... driving habits when pulling

From my last camping trip I saw a Tundra pulling a 21ft trailer. I thought the back springs where broken and/or he had no engine in his truck. The tso heavy in the back that it look like he was wheeling the truck. How he ever controlled that trailer I ..... dangerous.!!!!

Good topic to keep everyone alert while towing, you can never take it for granted.

Remember it is always better to be safe than sorry.

Safe towing everyone

Thor


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Doug,

That was a very good suggestion. We have all spent countless hours telling people "not enough truck" for their own benefit. Some or probably most have listened, some have not. The pictures will speak 1,000 words though.


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

Most trucks/suv's etc are perfectly capable of pulling a 32' trailer - when everything is going right. The problem comes in when something goes wrong, e.g. get going too fast, cross-winds, a panic stop, a swerve because some yahoo in a hurry cuts you off, drop a trailer tire off the shoulder of the road. That's when you need the extra heaft of a large tow vehicle. And I'll bet if you think about it at least one of those things occur each and every time you tow.
Note that I said capable of "pulling" - not towing.

Regards, Glenn


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

"Just like the pilot of a plane or the captain of a boat, when it comes down to it, the final decision - and responsibility - is theirs, and theirs alone.

Fortunately, in this case, they walked away.

Happy Trails,
Doug"

Sorry, Boss - I have to disagree with you on this one. Pilots and marine captains are thoroughly trained, licensed to do what they are doing, check-flighted regularly, and on and on.

Anyone with a basic driver's license can go buy a Buick Rainier and a 25 foot TT, and head off down the highway. That person is NOT qualified to evaluate the statements of the sales staffs of the car and RV dealers. He likely thinks he is getting expert advice, and with good reason. We don't know what we don't know, and that pilgrim doesn't realize he knows nothing. He may not be dumb, just ignorant. He's in trouble before he loads the fridge, and doesn't know it.

Sluggo


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

I will agree with Doug........the driver is responsible to know. Read the owners manual, stae laws, etc. Where ever you need to get the info. Just ask any over the road driver about traffic and truck laws. They differ from state to state. I do feel tho that liability should fall to the salesman a little if he knowingly misinforms the customer. Proving that would take a witness or recording.

John


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

I wonder if it would be worthwhile to add a form letter to our PDI checklist. The letter ask the salesperson to sign the letter stating that the dealer has reviewed the specs of the tow vehicle and certifies it is legally capable of safely towing the RV being purchased".

Regards, Glenn


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

GlenninTexas said:


> I wonder if it would be worthwhile to add a form letter to our PDI checklist. The letter ask the salesperson to sign the letter stating that the dealer has reviewed the specs of the tow vehicle and certifies it is legally capable of safely towing the RV being purchased".
> 
> Regards, Glenn


Then if something happens and somebody finds a loop-hole in the form letter, the finger gets pointed at us?


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

GlenninTexas said:


> I wonder if it would be worthwhile to add a form letter to our PDI checklist. The letter ask the salesperson to sign the letter stating that the dealer has reviewed the specs of the tow vehicle and certifies it is legally capable of safely towing the RV being purchased".
> 
> Regards, Glenn


My dealer had the opposite approach. I had to sign a form basically stating that I am responsible to know what I can tow -- not the dealer.

I agree to some extent that if a salesperson makes such claims it should be backed up in writing. However, with so many things that could go wrong attributable to driver causes, how can you point the finger back at the dealer. I would like to see more education on the dealers part but it has to rest with the buyer.

It's odd that you have to get commercial licenses to drive certain rigs but anyone can hook up a large travel trailer and off they go.

All the best,
Mitch


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