# Which Tow Vehicle And Trailer



## Hokie_PhD (Apr 1, 2008)

Folks, I've been lurking here for awhile and am taking my time to figure out what tow vehicle and trailer to get. Ideally, I'd be able to find a tow vehicle that gets 30 MPG during the week but could pull a small toy hauler that could hold a medium sized motorcycle (Harley Dyna). For the trailer I'd love something with a front bunk, a full shower/bathroom, and doesn't feel like cargo trailer. Since these don't exist, I'm leaning towards a 23RKS, or a Fun Finder Xtra XT-190. I also found a reference to an Aliner Cabin A SUT but can't find much about these (yet). Now I know this is the Outback forum and folks will lean towards them, (and I am too if I can find one at a decent price) but any suggestions are welcome.

For tow vehicles, I'd love an F-250 diesel but they're out of my price range. So that leaves the Ranger and F-150. Of the two for everyday use, I prefer the Ranger, and if I could find an Aliner and know that it would work well with the Ranger, that might be my first choice. But I feel that a new F-150 Supercab with the 5.4 and setup to tow the 9400lbs might make the most sense. Especially since they are FFVs and cheaper E-85 might be available here soon.

So, I guess the question is does anyone think a Ranger could safely pull a small toy hauler like what I'm describing (not the Outback). And if not, will a F-150 pull the 23RKS safely (it seems to be within the limits)

Thanks in advance

Tom

p.s. Not to start a flame war and to avoid one, I'm not considering any trucks outside of Ford for several reasons, so please don't suggest other vehicle options as they won't be considered.


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Personally, I wouldn't pull any trailer with a Ranger, especially a toyhauler where you put in extra pounds. But, since I don't have a toyhauler (or motorcycle, for that matter), I'm not sure how much they weigh or even i what you have would fit, so I'll let the experts on here give you that advice.

All I know is most Rangers, unless you've done something special to them of which I'm not aware, aren't equipped to handle towing trailers, IMHO.

Good luck with whatever you do decide to do and Welcome to Outbackers.

Mark


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## Hokie_PhD (Apr 1, 2008)

mswalt said:


> Personally, I wouldn't pull any trailer with a Ranger, especially a toyhauler where you put in extra pounds. But, since I don't have a toyhauler (or motorcycle, for that matter), I'm not sure how much they weigh or even i what you have would fit, so I'll let the experts on here give you that advice.
> 
> All I know is most Rangers, unless you've done something special to them of which I'm not aware, aren't equipped to handle towing trailers, IMHO.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mark,

Actually I've had a Ranger before and loved it. But traded it for an Escape Hybrid when gas hit $3.00 in 2006. The Ranger with a 4.0L, 4.11 gears and the automatic can tow up to 5500lbs. And has a toung weight limit of 650lbs.

Tom


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## 5th Time Around (Jul 8, 2008)

I know you said that the F250 is out of your price range, but it was out of ours too. We found a clean used one that was used for fifth wheel hauling. We have a 31KFW which is much bigger than you want. It has a garage with two bunk beds. IMHO any of the smaller campers don't have a bathroom or shower big enough for anyone over 12







I am loving the fiver because the shower is so big. I can't comment on the motorcycle and it fitting in as we haven't attempted it yet. From experience, the tow rating is grossly overstated on many TV's. In the past we were well within the limits yet the TV struggled to keep highway speed.

The downside of the diesel is that it will not get 30MPH. Another thing that IMHO is grossly overstated is EPA Mileage. They are tested without real driving conditions, wind, stopping, slowing etc.


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

I bought a 01 f350 supercrew 4x4 for under $12,000 and it gets 20mpg on the highway, 18mpg back and forth to work, 16mpg towing. You could get a new ranger for 12,000 and a used f250 for the price of a new f150. The company that I work for bought a new ranger for $11,800 with a 4 cylinder/5speed standard 22mpg is the best we can get from it. James


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## jcat67 (Aug 8, 2008)

By no means an expert, but I agree with Mark. I don't think the Ranger is the way to go for a TV. Also, unless the Ranger (or any small truck for that matter) has had a major change, I've never found them to get much better gas mileage than the full size......unless you are referring to a 4 cylinder and I wouldn't hook a concrete block behind that with intentions of pullling. I am amazed however that the new F150 has a tow capacity over 9K. Wow. It is amazing the increase in tow capacities the auto makers continue to make each year.

Good luck with your decision and welcome.


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## webeopelas (Mar 11, 2006)

Agree with all the earlier comments. If 30 MPG is what you are looking for, give up on pulling a trailer. There is nothing out there in a truck format that will get it.

You can do whatever you wish, but even if the Ranger can handle 650 lbs of tongue weight, the trailer alone will take up most of that. As soon as you put the motorcycle in the trailer, (most smaller ones I have seen always have the storage in the front) You will be well over the tongue weight limit.

An F150 might squeak by, but you will be nowhere near 30 MPG even when empty.

The sad truth of this hobby is the same as most out there "You pay to Play". So you must decide if camping is worth the money you will spend to do it.


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## Hokie_PhD (Apr 1, 2008)

Thanks. I thought I was clear, that the ideal was something we all know doesn't exist. But was trying to use that to suggest that a good compromise between getting the best tow vehicle at the best price and the right trailer for me was my goal. In other words, I'm not looking for a 5th wheel. And the biggest trailer I'd consider is the 28 rks, and am leaning towards the 23 rks as it's smaller. (I just have no need for a large trailer) What I need (want?) is something to hold the Harley, and doesn't feel like a cargo trailer (which many toy haulers do). Has room for two adults and two kids. And for a tow vehicle, I'd like something that can handle the trailer loaded and not be a safety issue.

The reason for considering the Ranger, is that I had one before, and have towed with it. With the 4.0L and 4.10 gears they actually tow pretty decent for a small truck. So hence the Ranger/XT-190 thought. But after looking at the F-150 and F-250 the Ranger doesn't make any sense as the deals on the F-150 make the Ranger not even worth considering. So with the larger towing (9400 lbs) ability of the 5.4 3 valve F-150 I'm seriously thinking of a F-150/23 rks combo.

So the real question is I'm not looking for opinions, but I guess more of a sanity check to see if I missed something and if my math is right. On the F-150 the trailer towing limit is 9400 lbs and the tongue limit is 1,100 lbs. The max weight of the 23RKS is 7,900 so unless I did some wrong math or the tongue weight exceeds 1,110lbs then the F-150 should be fine. Is there something else that I need to consider? Or are my numbers right, and this will work?


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## Hokie (Jul 10, 2006)

Hokie_PhD said:


> Thanks. I thought I was clear, that the ideal was something we all know doesn't exist. But was trying to use that to suggest that a good compromise between getting the best tow vehicle at the best price and the right trailer for me was my goal. In other words, I'm not looking for a 5th wheel. And the biggest trailer I'd consider is the 28 rks, and am leaning towards the 23 rks as it's smaller. (I just have no need for a large trailer) What I need (want?) is something to hold the Harley, and doesn't feel like a cargo trailer (which many toy haulers do). Has room for two adults and two kids. And for a tow vehicle, I'd like something that can handle the trailer loaded and not be a safety issue.
> 
> The reason for considering the Ranger, is that I had one before, and have towed with it. With the 4.0L and 4.10 gears they actually tow pretty decent for a small truck. So hence the Ranger/XT-190 thought. But after looking at the F-150 and F-250 the Ranger doesn't make any sense as the deals on the F-150 make the Ranger not even worth considering. So with the larger towing (9400 lbs) ability of the 5.4 3 valve F-150 I'm seriously thinking of a F-150/23 rks combo.
> 
> So the real question is I'm not looking for opinions, but I guess more of a sanity check to see if I missed something and if my math is right. On the F-150 the trailer towing limit is 9400 lbs and the tongue limit is 1,100 lbs. The max weight of the 23RKS is 7,900 so unless I did some wrong math or the tongue weight exceeds 1,110lbs then the F-150 should be fine. Is there something else that I need to consider? Or are my numbers right, and this will work?


Yes, you have the right train of thought going as far as weights are concerned. And I am glad that you are actually looking at and understanding your Gross capacities. Be sure to understand the difference between the Max Weight of the 23RKS and the empty weight (that number is ofter understated). That difference defines how much cargo you can hold and will give you an idea of how much margin you have on the trailer once the motorcycle is loaded. In addition, you need to carefully look at the Gross Combied Weight rating on your truck which will indicate the max combined weight of what the truck and trailer combination should never exceed. That includes the cargo in your truck including passengers, etc. Often times that gross combined weight limit further reduces the 9400lb towing rating that you mentioned above.

In sounds like you are interested in using math.....and by the way, I like your screenname. Make a spreadsheet that includes all of the weight ratings for both the F150 and the 23RKS, such as GVWR, GCWR, GAWRF, GAWRR, and you can then play around with what your margins are. And by all means, hit the scales once you finally have your setup.

I started with a 1993 4Runner and a 16 ft. Shadow Cruiser Fun Finder, pulling right at the limits......that lasted for about a year and I realized I really needed a larger truck.......after the new truck I realized I really needed a larger trailer......and so on.

Good Luck,
-Sam


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## z-family (Oct 2, 2004)




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## webeopelas (Mar 11, 2006)

Hokie_PhD said:


> Thanks. I thought I was clear, that the ideal was something we all know doesn't exist. But was trying to use that to suggest that a good compromise between getting the best tow vehicle at the best price and the right trailer for me was my goal. In other words, I'm not looking for a 5th wheel. And the biggest trailer I'd consider is the 28 rks, and am leaning towards the 23 rks as it's smaller. (I just have no need for a large trailer) What I need (want?) is something to hold the Harley, and doesn't feel like a cargo trailer (which many toy haulers do). Has room for two adults and two kids. And for a tow vehicle, I'd like something that can handle the trailer loaded and not be a safety issue.
> 
> The reason for considering the Ranger, is that I had one before, and have towed with it. With the 4.0L and 4.10 gears they actually tow pretty decent for a small truck. So hence the Ranger/XT-190 thought. But after looking at the F-150 and F-250 the Ranger doesn't make any sense as the deals on the F-150 make the Ranger not even worth considering. So with the larger towing (9400 lbs) ability of the 5.4 3 valve F-150 I'm seriously thinking of a F-150/23 rks combo.
> 
> So the real question is I'm not looking for opinions, but I guess more of a sanity check to see if I missed something and if my math is right. On the F-150 the trailer towing limit is 9400 lbs and the tongue limit is 1,100 lbs. The max weight of the 23RKS is 7,900 so unless I did some wrong math or the tongue weight exceeds 1,110lbs then the F-150 should be fine. Is there something else that I need to consider? Or are my numbers right, and this will work?


Sorry, your first post said nothing about realizing it did not exist. Also all you can get on this forum is opinions. No one here is legally a definitive expert in anything.

I don't know how big your bike or your family is, but a quick look at the payload capacity of a F-150 SuperCrew 4x4 is ~1450 lbs. So put your family of 4 in it with the requisite gear and you will easily eat up about 500 lbs leaving 950 lbs. The hitch weight on a 23 RKS is listed at 555, they are always low so lets say 600 Lbs. You now have 350 lbs left for the bike, and all the gear you will put in the trailer that can add to the tongue weight. It is not a 1 for 1 because it is distributed over the frame, but to me it looks close, which is the reason for my squeak by comment.

As I said earlier, you make your own decision and the F-150 could work just fine for you. Just my opinion.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Why not just get the F-150 in a long bed version and carry the Harley in the back of the truck? This gets you away from the Toy Hauler "look" you didn't want. With two kids (I have two as well)...you might want to consider the "bunk house" models. They offer 4 bunks that offer the space in case your kids want to bring a friend along. Also give them their own "room"...which is very nice.


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## Hokie_PhD (Apr 1, 2008)

Oregon_Camper said:


> Why not just get the F-150 in a long bed version and carry the Harley in the back of the truck? This gets you away from the Toy Hauler "look" you didn't want. With two kids (I have two as well)...you might want to consider the "bunk house" models. They offer 4 bunks that offer the space in case your kids want to bring a friend along. Also give them their own "room"...which is very nice.


Long bed F-150s with extended cabs are almost impossible to find. Plus, if you've ever loaded a motorcycle into a pickup you know it can be a PIA at times. On a bike like mine that sits low (FXDL) it's more of a hassle than I'd really want to deal with.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Again, check the weights. You might be ok with a 23krs and a F150. Everything I hear says that a 28krs will be overweight, and from personal experience I wouldn't recommend anything that long. If you don't care about the power of a diesel or the toys that are available, a F250 with a 5.4L isn't that much more than a F150...


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Hokie_PhD said:


> Why not just get the F-150 in a long bed version and carry the Harley in the back of the truck? This gets you away from the Toy Hauler "look" you didn't want. With two kids (I have two as well)...you might want to consider the "bunk house" models. They offer 4 bunks that offer the space in case your kids want to bring a friend along. Also give them their own "room"...which is very nice.


Long bed F-150s with extended cabs are almost impossible to find. Plus, if you've ever loaded a motorcycle into a pickup you know it can be a PIA at times. On a bike like mine that sits low (FXDL) it's more of a hassle than I'd really want to deal with.

[/quote]

I have this ramp and I know you would have no problem loading your Harley into the bed of the F-150.


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## Tyvekcat (Aug 28, 2007)

Sell the harley and go buy an F-250. Then a plethora of Outbacks are available to you, well within tow capacity of the truck.


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

Givin the market these days. You can pick up a used F250 diesel very reasonably and then you can tow whatever you want. Definately less than a new F150. As someone suggested above the older 199-2003 with the 7.3 are very reasonable and a good truck. If you look at the 2003 1/2 - 2006 with the 6.0 make sure you buy something that is still covered by th efactory warranty (under 100k miles). They are hit or miss with their issues. I bought mine reasonably and have since had the turbo and head gaskets replaced under warranty. Knock on wood, ok since then. My .02.

Jim


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Hokie_PhD said:


> if you've ever loaded a motorcycle into a pickup you know it can be a PIA at times. On a bike like mine that sits low (FXDL) it's more of a hassle than I'd really want to deal with.


If it is that hard to load into a pick-up, you probably won't get it loaded into a 'Roo either........

The ramp into the front load area is steeper than you think, so you would probably bottom out your low sitting Harley getting it in the door.

Steve


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

It seems like you are leaning towards a Ranger. The Ranger platform hasn't been updated in what, 10-12 years now? It is no longer a "mid-sized" truck like it may have been at one time. Compare Ranger capabilities to those of a Dakota, Tacoma or even a new Nissan Frontier. Look at wheelbase, GVWR, GCWR and axle ratings - not the marketing hype driven tow ratings. I used to own a Ranger myself. I own the second smallest Outback made (23RS) and there is no way in the world I would ever hook it up to a Ranger unless someone took the badges off of my current truck and glued the word "Ranger" on it. This is just an opinion but towing any Outback with a Ranger is akin to "crossing the beams".

-CC


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## Silvrsled (Jul 24, 2008)

collinsfam_tx said:


> I own the second smallest Outback made (23RS) and there is no way in the world I would ever hook it up to a Ranger unless someone took the badges off of my current truck and glued the word "Ranger" on it. This is just an opinion but towing any Outback with a Ranger is akin to "crossing the beams".
> 
> -CC


Isn't the 23rs the 3rd smallest outback? 18rs, 21rs then 23rs?


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Silvrsled said:


> I own the second smallest Outback made (23RS) and there is no way in the world I would ever hook it up to a Ranger unless someone took the badges off of my current truck and glued the word "Ranger" on it. This is just an opinion but towing any Outback with a Ranger is akin to "crossing the beams".
> 
> -CC


Isn't the 23rs the 3rd smallest outback? 18rs, 21rs then 23rs?








[/quote]

18RS is not made anymore.

-CC


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

collinsfam_tx said:


> I own the second smallest Outback made (23RS) and there is no way in the world I would ever hook it up to a Ranger unless someone took the badges off of my current truck and glued the word "Ranger" on it. This is just an opinion but towing any Outback with a Ranger is akin to "crossing the beams".
> 
> -CC


Isn't the 23rs the 3rd smallest outback? 18rs, 21rs then 23rs?








[/quote]

18RS is not made anymore.

-CC
[/quote]

It had a short life. Like 6 months?


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## Silvrsled (Jul 24, 2008)

Oregon_Camper said:


> I own the second smallest Outback made (23RS) and there is no way in the world I would ever hook it up to a Ranger unless someone took the badges off of my current truck and glued the word "Ranger" on it. This is just an opinion but towing any Outback with a Ranger is akin to "crossing the beams".
> 
> -CC


Isn't the 23rs the 3rd smallest outback? 18rs, 21rs then 23rs?








[/quote]

18RS is not made anymore.

-CC
[/quote]

It had a short life. Like 6 months?








[/quote]

Wow, had no idea. There was one parked right next to our 21rs when we bought it.


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## Cubber (Jan 23, 2008)

Ok, new OB guy here, and I own the 23krs,,,,,,,,,,and we love it. We also tow it with an 08 F150 supercrew w/tow package, of course. This truck handles that TT very well. I don't load any motorcycles in the garage, but we do load it with a lot of camping gear, including at times fire wood,bicycles, grill, generators, chairs, almost everything that comes out of the TT when we get to the site. It handles it great, even with the inclines and descents here in central CA. When unloaded, the full sized bed up front is great for our 16 yr old daughter(when she isn't too cool for camping) and a friend. There is even a 'privacy'door between that room and the rest of the rig. It works for us. I've pulled it now 5 times, in all conditions, loaded w/water, propane, all supplies loaded and I average about 12-13.5 mpg with the Ford. Most important is adding a good WD hitch setup and adjusting it correctly. This may take some time, but it's worth the safety of all involved. Good luck in your search for the setup you are looking for, but I think the 23krs is at about your limit with the F150, still has to be set up right. Hope this all helps you, and I'm glad you are a Ford fan, too. Happy Camping!


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## Hokie_PhD (Apr 1, 2008)

Nathan said:


> Again, check the weights. You might be ok with a 23krs and a F150. Everything I hear says that a 28krs will be overweight, and from personal experience I wouldn't recommend anything that long. If you don't care about the power of a diesel or the toys that are available, a F250 with a 5.4L isn't that much more than a F150...


Thanks, Ideally, I'd get a F-250 diesel in a second and not worry about anything. But there are several factors that I can't discuss here that will affect the TV then which trailer to get. I wouldn't consider a 28krs unless it was a killer deal used and I wound up with an F-250. In my case, I really don't want/need a large tailer and see several benefits of going as small as reasonably possible. I know most people get a trailer that's too big for their truck, then get a bigger truck, then repeat. But as I've said before, my goal is to have something nice that can hold the Harley and not eat me alive with large fuel bills, and not feel like a cargo trailer. Of everything that I've found so far, the two trailers that fit that are Fun Finder XT-190 and the Outback 23Krs..


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## Hokie_PhD (Apr 1, 2008)

Cubber said:


> Ok, new OB guy here, and I own the 23krs,,,,,,,,,,and we love it. We also tow it with an 08 F150 supercrew w/tow package, of course. This truck handles that TT very well. I don't load any motorcycles in the garage, but we do load it with a lot of camping gear, including at times fire wood,bicycles, grill, generators, chairs, almost everything that comes out of the TT when we get to the site. It handles it great, even with the inclines and descents here in central CA. When unloaded, the full sized bed up front is great for our 16 yr old daughter(when she isn't too cool for camping) and a friend. There is even a 'privacy'door between that room and the rest of the rig. It works for us. I've pulled it now 5 times, in all conditions, loaded w/water, propane, all supplies loaded and I average about 12-13.5 mpg with the Ford. Most important is adding a good WD hitch setup and adjusting it correctly. This may take some time, but it's worth the safety of all involved. Good luck in your search for the setup you are looking for, but I think the 23krs is at about your limit with the F150, still has to be set up right. Hope this all helps you, and I'm glad you are a Ford fan, too. Happy Camping!


Thanks, glad to hear the setup works for you. I guess one of the "problems" is that not all 1/2 ton trucks are created equal. So it takes some work and effort to get the right setup. Adding to the confusion is that Ford has really beefed up the F-150 with the 5.4 3valve and the tow package. It seems that too often folks either go too big or too small. As I've mentioned before, given the choice, I'd go too big and an F-250 diesel would be the choice. But I have other factors to consider.

BTW, is that 12-13.5 towing or regular driving around town? If it's towing, I find that incredible. Around town, I'd find it a little low but not horrible and and with an '08 expect it to go up a little once the truck breaks in. For some reason, I've yet to find a vehicle that didn't get a little stronger and better MPG wise after about 10k to 20k.


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## Cubber (Jan 23, 2008)

Yes, that is towing the OB,,,,,,,,I know, I was surprised, too, but it is what I am getting, here in central CA.


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