# Edge Products



## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Just want to know who has ponied up for this type of product and what is your general impression. Real improvements or hype. Is the information they provide helpful or confusing?

I know that to get really big improvements will require mechanical upgrades to intake and exhaust but I want to start with monitoring of how it really works stock.


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## Lazybonz(aka Bill) (Sep 23, 2006)

Hey
I guess some folks like these upgrades and hotrodding their trucks.

From what I understand, you risk screwing up your warrenty and also long term engine and transmission life.
These mods do increase engine and tranny temps and can help premature failures and wear.
I personaly don't want to take the risk or spend the money.
For my money, the Duramax has all the power I need right outta the box. And I won't risk my 100,000 mile warrenty or potential engine life to gain a couple of ftlbs of torque. I have too much invested.
I figure that these manufactuters (Ford, GM, Dodge etc.) spend millions on research etc. If they could advertise more power and better milage safely, they would.

My 2 cents

Bill


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

CamperAndy said:


> Just want to know who has ponied up for this type of product and what is your general impression. Real improvements or hype. Is the information they provide helpful or confusing?
> 
> I know that to get really big improvements will require mechanical upgrades to intake and exhaust but I want to start with monitoring of how it really works stock.


From what I have been able to gather from magazine articles and different forum posts, any tuner/chip will give you a more noticible improvement with a Diesel then with a gasser, but I have no direct experience, and with the troubled 6.0 PSD under my hood, it will be about 60,000 more miles 'til I would even consider it, as it will void the Ford Warranty. Check with Dodge before you do anything.

Tim


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

No opinion on the question ...
Another small forum board to look at on your question.
NW Bombers

Map Guy


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Please note as I mentioned in the original post that I really want to monitor the rig more than pump out more power which BTW the cummins has plenty of everything. I just want to watch the temperatures and pressures. If I can make modest improvements along the way that is what I want.

Not looking at other trucks as they are not what I want.

As for the warranty, that is a scare tactic. Just where is the line between product improvement and abuse. The warranty thing goes along with people that still believe that ALL service to a vehicle must be done by the dealer to continue coverage and this is a urban legend also.

Edge Products with Attitude in cab monitor


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## Lazybonz(aka Bill) (Sep 23, 2006)

Different strokes for different folks!


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

CamperAndy said:


> Please note as I mentioned in the original post that I really want to monitor the rig more than pump out more power which BTW the cummins has plenty of everything. I just want to watch the temperatures and pressures. If I can make modest improvements along the way that is what I want.
> 
> Not looking at other trucks as they are not what I want.
> 
> ...


100% Correct here on the mods and service!

Though you could extract some info from the NW Bomber site on the Dodge Cummins combo. This a PNW group that do all kinds of stuff to ther trucks that have branched off from the large brand specific boards.

On my Dmax I am looking at EFI live for the same purpose -monitoring and mild targeted improvements during towing and around town. EFI Live is not available for cummins so couldn't point you that direction.

Map Guy


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## bill_pfaff (Mar 11, 2005)

I donâ€™t have a diesel (but I'd sure like one someday) and I donâ€™t have a comment on the products being talked about nor do I have a comment on their value.

I do however have a question. If these products do all they say like â€œimproving your Duramaxâ€™s driveability, towing, mileage and, most importantly, POWERâ€, why isnâ€™t the technology built into the engine by the manufacturer to begin with?

Short of those individuals with more money than brains, arenâ€™t the features like â€œmileageâ€ and â€œpowerâ€ major selling points when people go to look for a vehicle of this type?

If that is true then Iâ€™m back to my original question, why donâ€™t the manufacturers build the technology into the engines to start with? If all it costs is +/- $500 wouldn't it be worth the additional cost when you go to buy he truck? Heck, considering mass production savings and no middle man, the cost would probably be even less than $500 if they built the technology into the engine to start with

Please forgive me if Iâ€™m missing something obvious. I have been known to be thick skulled but something isn't making sense.

Thanks for any feedback.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

bill_pfaff said:


> I donâ€™t have a diesel (but I'd sure like one someday) and I donâ€™t have a comment on the products being talked about nor do I have a comment on their value.
> 
> I do however have a question. If these products do all they say like â€œimproving your Duramaxâ€™s driveability, towing, mileage and, most importantly, POWERâ€, why isnâ€™t the technology built into the engine by the manufacturer to begin with?
> 
> ...


They will be part of every rig one day, just like brake controllers, in 08 2 of the 3 major players will have them as part of the towing package.

As for the products in question there is always a trade off and the manufactures do not feel the average Joe has any business tweaking the controls on their trucks. They happen to be right but it should still be an option.

An example of this is the block temperature gage in my old 1500 had a scale of C to H (not real useful), my 3500 has 140-200-260 (better but not great). The Edge Attitude monitor will be able to tell me that the temperature is exactly 195 or what ever it actually is. Along with many other data points from the engine and transmission. This knowledge alone will make make the rig more drivable for me.

Now back to why these thing are worth getting. The manufactures try to match the truck to a generic set of uses. Thus the fuel mix or injection timing is set for something that is ok for many uses but may not match up well for climbing with a 10,000 pound load at 6,000 feet. You are not hurting the engine by better matching the controls to the use at the moment but you will not want that set up when cruising unloaded down the coast highway at 70 mph.

I am just looking for users of the Edge Products to see how they like them.


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

bill_pfaff said:


> I donâ€™t have a diesel (but I'd sure like one someday) and I donâ€™t have a comment on the products being talked about nor do I have a comment on their value.
> 
> I do however have a question. If these products do all they say like â€œimproving your Duramaxâ€™s driveability, towing, mileage and, most importantly, POWERâ€, why isnâ€™t the technology built into the engine by the manufacturer to begin with?
> 
> ...


From what I gather on Cumminsforum.com, the Dodges, for example, are great for tuning on the Cummins motors.

What gets you is the tranny........if you look at the guys that do all the tinkering, they all have upgraded trannies, fuel pumps, injectors, etc.

My personal feelings are that the manufacturers are going for longevity. They warranty the trucks, so they build them to last. If you start messing around with everything, you are just cutting the lifespan short, unless you take care of ALL the components of the truck.

Andy, I have been looking at ways to monitor also......all the replies I get back from the members on cumminsforum.com are the same........if you keep it stock, you don't have to monitor anything.

Exhaust temps will never go extrememly high, because Dosge has built in safeguards, fuel pressure is the same. They tell me by adding an aftermarket air filter, such as an Amsoil Nanofiber, it helps with the airflow. That is the one and only mechanical mod I have done, and will be the only one until warranty expires. I may not even change anything after that. The new Dodges come with a 4" exhaust, so there is no need to mess with that....

I may go the mechanical gauge route since you can get a pillar mounted pod with 3 gauges for around $300, but I may just not worry about it.

Steve


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## bill_pfaff (Mar 11, 2005)

Good reply. That helped immensely.

Thanks!


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Agreed

It was a great logical question Bill and as usual, Andy answers it in a way I can understand.









John


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Andy,

I'm with Steve and that is a lot of money to spend on monitoring something that is just fine. Save your money for the ball joint , bushing, etc replacements to let the truck last as long as the motor.

The EDGE products for the Duramax aren't so good and it would seem the Predators are much better. I'm afraid that I would tell you to go to the boards and do some reading. A lot of reading as only 1 in maybe 50 on the boards will know what they are talking about. Then when it comes right down to it if you want increases then it isn't just chips that you buy as they only change the operating points of the motor not the motor itself.

I for one though think that caution is paramount. Installing the guages at least on a Duramax isn't easy and in some cases turns into a hack job. Drilling holes in intake manifolds for boost pressure monitors. What happens to the aluminum chips as your drilling? Do they go right into the intake manifold? No thanks for me on that stuff and those pillar guages can sometime give you quite the blind spot.

The chip people only want to sell chips and really don't care what you do to your motor. The testing is done in large part by the consumers as the chip guys don't go out and buy several of each make and subject them to lifecycle testing. Therefore the whole issue over warranty is just that. The manufacturers in-ability to do the proper testing to stand by the product and honor it with a a warranty. In other words it boils down to money. If I was GM, Dodge, Ford I would have the exact same response. I don't think they should provide anybody with that option because it is against all the money they spent lifecycle testing. That money in my business is equal to the initial designs and I bet it is the same for theirs as well.

See similar situations in my job everyday. Go ahead, go against our recommendations and when you break it I'm standing right there with my quote for the replacement equipment!


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

NJMikeC said:


> I for one though think that caution is paramount. Installing the guages at least on a Duramax isn't easy and in some cases turns into a hack job.
> 
> Big money to spend on just monitoring.


Mike,

your comments above are both very important to this discussion. The last thing I want to do is a hack job and putting in a 3 gage cluster can cost on its own a few hundred bucks. The product I am looking at does all the items listed below just for monitoring and it has tuning capabilities. All of the data is coming to and from the computer so why not look at it. I just wish I knew someone that had it installed and then I could look at it and play with it to see if it is what I want. I ask here as I trust this site. I could have posted this question on other sites but I don't have the same trust level in them.

***********************************************************************************
Your Attitude monitor allows you to monitor the performance of your engineâ€™s vital engine components and output values. The following parameters can be displayed on the main Attitude screen (maximum 4 at one time): 
â€¢ Boost
â€¢ EGT
â€¢ Barametric PSI
â€¢ Power Level
â€¢ Speed MPH
â€¢ Engine Coolant Temperature
â€¢ Gear
â€¢ Intake Air Temperature
â€¢ Load%
â€¢ Slip %
â€¢ Transmission Temperature
â€¢ Throttle%
â€¢ RPM
â€¢ Percent Backdown due to high EGT or Boost

That Attitude can sound an alert when certain engine parameter levels are met. The following alerts are available:
â€¢ EGT
â€¢ Boost
â€¢ Engine Temp
â€¢ Transmission Temp
â€¢ Speed

Keep track of your performance by recording maximum/minimum for a variety of parameters including:
â€¢ Max Engine Temp 
â€¢ 0-60 times
â€¢ Â¼ mile times
â€¢ Max RPM
â€¢ Max Speed
â€¢ Backdown %
â€¢ TransmissionTemp

***************************************************************************************


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## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

I have a programmer. There is a big difference. Power is up and so is mileage. I dont drive the truck hard, most of the time its under 2000 rpms. I run it in tow/econo mode because I like the way it shifts. If you wanna go fast it will, but I do think it will shorten the life of the truck after a while.


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Andy,

Think you just look at the boards and find "the guy" who really knows how to do the job upto your standards. Being on this site for a year I see that your knowledge and I would guess "your standards" are pretty high.

Mike


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## Dark Green Dmax (Aug 2, 2005)

Lazybonz(aka Bill) said:


> Hey
> I guess some folks like these upgrades and hotrodding their trucks.
> 
> From what I understand, you risk screwing up your warrenty and also long term engine and transmission life.
> ...


I use a computer reprogrammer(hypertech 3) in my 02 duramax. It's a low end cheapo programmer thats not changed on the fly. It does have 3 power settings to choose from though...50,70,90 HP gain. I have mine set at 90HP w/160 lbs added torque. This brings my 02 up to right at what a 07 has standard. It takes 5 minutes to change back to factory settings for warrantee work. & the allison tranny will hold around 700lbs. torque before something breaks (i'm well below that). The temps go up, but they are exhaust temps. My engine temps run 195-200 year round, tranny never goes over 205 even pulling our 5er in 100+ summer heat. So i went & replaced the stock 3.5 exhaust with a 4in system with no cat(didn't come with one) & a straight throu muffler. Now i don't need to worry about egts. Yes it makes a big difference from stock. It's no racing truck by any means, but it's fast enuff for me. This programmer does not remove the speed limiter so i still shut down at 96-97 mph. So in a all out race i'll loose since most others cut out a 105-110 if at all. But i can get up to my limit rather quickly.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Mike, your wondering where the aluminum filings go is exactly why my son, when he did his and when he does mine, removes the manifold to drill and tap the hole. More laber but piece of mind. Only installiing guages to see and moniter just because







. I like the look of A post guages and had them on my Suburban and did not think it created more of a blindspot.

John


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Dark Green Dmax said:


> It takes 5 minutes to change back to factory settings for warrantee work. .


All reprogrammers leave tell tale programs in the vehicles computer. The only one that has proven to hae no trace is the Smarty.

If your vehicle gets hooked to the diagnostic computer at the dealers, they can tell exactly what has been modified in the programming.

Steve


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

I would have to disagree about the monitoring of EGT, tranny temp, water temp as being a wasteful thing. Anybody that thinks they can not damage a late model diesel during towing is not being real IMHO. I have installed the flak jacket! EGT can climb to dangerous levels easily on climbs and descends if the wrong gear is selected. To high of rpm builds heat and burns extra fuel. To low rpm under load creates heat, too. The stock gauges in most trucks respond to slowly to warn you of a avoidable problem. Another problem that most diesel owners don't understand is that pulling off the freeway into the rest area and just shutting the truck down is killing your turbo due to the coking of oil in the turbo bearings. Without a way to monitor EGT your don't know if the turbo has cooled enough for shut down.

Monitoring of the inputs to the computer system gives insight and also someone who understands the whole process to tweak small parts of the OEM programing for targeted improvements - lower EGT better fuel economy are two of the best reasons.

Yes installing the Edge just to make black clouds and leave rubber strips is foolish IMHO but that not what this is about.

Map Guy


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

tdvffjohn said:


> Mike, your wondering where the aluminum filings go is exactly why my son, when he did his and when he does mine, removes the manifold to drill and tap the hole. More laber but piece of mind. Only installiing guages to see and moniter just because
> 
> 
> 
> ...


John,

This product can be mounted on the pillar or in the visor.


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## Dark Green Dmax (Aug 2, 2005)

huntr70 said:


> It takes 5 minutes to change back to factory settings for warrantee work. .


All reprogrammers leave tell tale programs in the vehicles computer. The only one that has proven to hae no trace is the Smarty.

If your vehicle gets hooked to the diagnostic computer at the dealers, they can tell exactly what has been modified in the programming.

Steve
[/quote]
Funny thing, my dealer never said anythnig to me about it. I guess it slipped under the radar.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Neat Andy.

I know when I first had my truck, the trans acted funny and it kicked up a code. In the dealers printout (which was several pages long) was instructions for the tech to check for aftermarket items and if any were found, warranty was void. That was enough for me to not consider anything.


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

John- removing the manifold sure does get rid of that problem. Just too much work for me though.

Map guy- I do leave my truck at idle for a minute or two to cool the turbo but something in me tells me it is a bit of a wives tale. I read every word in my owners manual and no-where could I find a reference to "cooling the turbo". Guys over on Diesel place are also rather ambivalent about the subject as well and that feedback is via watching the temps using their guages. In other words they cool down real fast.

Andy- had another thought. There are many sponsors on the diesel forums and maybe PM'ing one of those guys gets you your answers.

Duramax users-- if you are worried about trans temps go get your Allison re-filled with Transynd. That will keep it cooler for sure.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

NJMikeC said:


> Map guy- I do leave my truck at idle for a minute or two to cool the turbo but something in me tells me it is a bit of a wives tale. I read every word in my owners manual and no-where could I find a reference to "cooling the turbo". Guys over on Diesel place are also rather ambivalent about the subject as well and that feedback is via watching the temps using their guages. In other words they cool down real fast.


My Dodge manual actually gives times at idle for 3 or 4 different operational uses. I think it even said 5 minutes at idle after highway speeds when towing. The Edge Attitude control has a turbo cool down feature that causes the engine to delay shutdown (even though you have taken the key out) until the exhaust temps are to a level that is acceptable.


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

NJMikeC said:


> Duramax users-- if you are worried about trans temps go get your Allison re-filled with Transynd. That will keep it cooler for sure.


Sorry -off topic but...
Actually any TES-295 approved fluid will help with heat on the Allison -TranSynd is one of 5 products approved for extended service intervals, by Allison but not Chevy or GMC, as long as the maximum dilution of (by) non TES-295 fluid is <10%

ALLY Page

Map Guy


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Dark Green Dmax said:


> It takes 5 minutes to change back to factory settings for warrantee work. .


All reprogrammers leave tell tale programs in the vehicles computer. The only one that has proven to hae no trace is the Smarty.

If your vehicle gets hooked to the diagnostic computer at the dealers, they can tell exactly what has been modified in the programming.

Steve
[/quote]
Funny thing, my dealer never said anythnig to me about it. I guess it slipped under the radar.
[/quote]
Was the warranty work related to something that the module would have changed in the computer??

You can't just plug the harness in and see that programs have been modified, you need to go into specific programs.....example, you have problems with your tranny shifting and the tech plugs into the diagnostic port. He pulls up the shifting program and sees that it has been modified. Guess what the first thing he is going to ask???

I have a friend that is a tech for a local Dodge dealer, and he told me that whatever I do, don't use a programmer while under warranty....they refuse the warranty service, and Daimler/Chrysler will NOT bail me out.

Steve


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

While drilling into the intake manifold, just put a nice sized shop vac wand along side the drill bit.. Your shavings will go up the vac, quicker than they can fall into the intake.. Works every time..

Carey


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

If you could just buy the monitor for $299, like shown here...








....and it was plug and play, like hook it up to your existing wire harness, I would buy one to see what is going on in my truck.

Unfortunately, it has to be part of the tuner to work......at $999 for the package.

I would love to plug and play, but I haven't found one that JUST monitors things, everything has tuning adjustments......other than good ole' mechanical gauges, which need probes attatched everywhere.

Steve


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

We should all get together Steve and write one our selves. Probably a very minimalistic endeavor.


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

huntr70 said:


> If you could just buy the monitor for $299, like shown here...
> 
> 
> 
> ...











This one is strictly a monitor.
Funny how it looks so much like the edge.
It's a new product made by MSD.
It will only work on newer vehicles designed to use the CAN bus instead of plain ol OBDII
www.dashhawk.com


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Katrina said:


> If you could just buy the monitor for $299, like shown here...
> 
> 
> 
> ...











This one is strictly a monitor.
Funny how it looks so much like the edge.
It's a new product made by MSD.
It will only work on newer vehicles designed to use the CAN bus instead of plain ol OBDII
www.dashhawk.com
[/quote]
I'll have to keep my out on that one!!

Thanks Jim!

Upon viewing the website, it looks like it is listed for diesels..........

Steve

Ebay lists some Dashhawks for around $250 plus shipping.

Steve


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

huntr70 said:


> If you could just buy the monitor for $299, like shown here...
> 
> 
> 
> ...











This one is strictly a monitor.
Funny how it looks so much like the edge.
It's a new product made by MSD.
It will only work on newer vehicles designed to use the CAN bus instead of plain ol OBDII
www.dashhawk.com
[/quote]
I'll have to keep my out on that one!!

Thanks Jim!

Upon viewing the website, it looks like it is listed for diesels..........

Steve

Ebay lists some Dashhawks for around $250 plus shipping.

Steve
[/quote]

Edited out the lack of diesel part as it looks like they are supporting diesels now. It still looks like you hafta have the CAN bus which should be ok on your truck. Double check to make sure though.


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

CamperAndy said:


> Please note as I mentioned in the original post that I really want to monitor the rig more than pump out more power which BTW the cummins has plenty of everything. I just want to watch the temperatures and pressures. If I can make modest improvements along the way that is what I want.
> 
> Not looking at other trucks as they are not what I want.
> 
> ...


Normally, I would agree with you on the "urban Legend" thing and modding the truck, but I know at least two people who brought their 6.0 L PSD's in for diagnosis and service at the dealer, and they both had aftermarket intakes (K&N Cold Air Intakes or something similar) and Ford would not service them until they were returned to stock. This was two different dealerships, in different parts of the country. Now, I don't know if there is specific language in the Powerstroke Warranty about altering the intake or not, but I can check up on it in the morning.

This could be isolated to Ford due to the large amount of warranty claims on the 6.0 liter PSD's. I also know that when I was having problems in the fall, one the things that showed up on the work ticket was that a fuel sample was taken to analyse for unapproved additives. Ford currently recommends that NO fuel additives are used, unlike GM, which recommends stanadyne if needed. Not sure about Dodge. My only purpose of my warning was to read your warranty carefully to determine what would and would not void it.

As far as monitoring, why not just add gauges. I've seen some very nice setups for the Dodge's from Autometer, and others?

Tim


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## JimBo99 (Apr 25, 2006)

I looked at the Edge and found out it would void my warranty. Here is an excellent site dedicated to Dodge Cummins: http://www.turbodieselregister.com/

The warranty is up at 100k. Go campin' and it will soon be there! When mine reaches 100k I'll put one in.

Jim


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