# To Buy Or Not To Buy --Decision Made -- Buy



## Camping Family From MI (Feb 20, 2010)

Here I am again looking for a little advice. I am looking at Dodge Ram 2500ST, almost ready to sign the papers.

I have made quite a few mistakes since deciding to purchase an Outback. Not picking a Outback as my RV; but figuring out which vehicle fits with which RV.

Mainly , I thought as long a GTWR was under I was OK. I didn't have a clue to look at payload until after the fact. I think that if we limit the payload to just the driver and a well packed (lite) trailer our payload would be OK. But I really don't want to drive two vehicles everywhere we go. Two vehicles defeats my intended purpose of bringing the family together.

Here is what I have

Outback 250RS
Dry Weight 5670 
GCVW 7550

Purchased a 2004 Dodge Ram 1500

5.7L V-8 w/17 LT275 Tires
Auto 5-spd
3.92 Axel Ratio
Payload 1330
Curb Weight 5316
GCWR 14000
GTWR 8550

Looking at a 2010 Dodge Ram 2500
5.7 V-8
Auto 5-spd
4.10 Axel Ratio
Payload 3610
GTWR 11350

So, I'm seriously considering a 2010 Ram 2500ST Gasser. (I know a Diesel would be better but I just can't afford the extra at this time)

Before I make the plunge an sign the papers I would like to get the opinions of you wise Outbackers.

So, should I buy or should I stay with what I have?

Thanks

Kelly


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## marker (Aug 14, 2009)

I am surprised that you feel your 1500 will not work. I have not done the math but my rig, while a bit smaller is heavier with my motorcycle inside and I am right within my numbers for the truck as measured at a Flying J weigh scale.

I would double check everyting and ensure your weight distribution system is adjusted properly.

The only thing extra or out of the ordinary I have done is reinforce the truck hitch to ensure it will not bend in cranking up the weight distriburion bars. I am sure you will get people here saying that a 1 Ton Dully may just do the trick, but I think you should hitch up and check it out at a scale before you spend the $$$ on a new truck.......unless you want a new truck (and I can understand that!).


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## Camping Family From MI (Feb 20, 2010)

The payload is my actual worry. Truck would be carrying 3 adults and a teenager plus the tongue weight of 560. We have a cap but could remove it for travel. I should weight,great idea about actually weighting. I tend to over think and over research everything. I just don't want to overload and create any potential issues (i have read it is illegal to be over the GVRW on a vehicle and insurance not cover because of it. Might not even be true just scary to me.)

Sure wish I truly understood payload. My take on GVVW 6650 = 5316 (Curb Weight) + 1330 (payload) -- So in order to be under the GVWR the tongue weight and the people the truck is carrying shouldn't exceed 1330. With the tongue weight of 560 that would only leave 770 for the people and all the camping stuff we want to carry. Numbers just don't seem to be working for me. Hope someone can tell me I am wrong on the way I am looking a payload. Am I wrong? Someone please correct me.

I would like the new truck but don't want the new payment. We have only had the 1500 for just over a month now. So, it is new to us too.

Thanks Marker I great idea I should go to a weigh scale. I should help me with my decision.

Kelly


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

My opinion is that you might get by with the 1/2 T pickup even with the loading, but I know you would be happier with the 3/4 T. Better pulling, handling and especially stopping. It kind of depends on how many and how far you plan on pulling the camper someplace. If you won't go too many times or too far, I would stick with the 1/2 T until you see that it won't work or want something better. If you're planning on traveling outside of the Midwest and you can afford it, go with the 3/4 T. With that small of a camper, you don't need a 1 T duelly even though they are cool. Good luck with the trucks.


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

We have a 250RS and our TV is a 2006 2500RAM w/3.73 rear - it does fine. We only have 2 adults, but, our back is usually loaded with wood, etc. The only problem we have is on climbing very steep hills. I usually drop it down into L2 going up those hills and it takes its time, but, does fine. On the highway, we have no issues and the 2500 does a great job.


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## Camping Family From MI (Feb 20, 2010)

Thank you lmbevard & rvdholtwood. I appreciate both your responses.

I'm thinking that if I want to take bikes, canoes, etc. or take a long trip out west (which I would like to do next year) or south a 2500 might be just what I need.

Thanks again,

Kelly


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

I just bought the truck in sig for under $20k after making some mechanical upgrades and maintenance. Thats a lot less than a new gasser and 115K miles on a diesel is new, if you find the right one.

As for weight, I am over my payload by about 1k lbs, but under my GCVW by at least 2-3k lbs. Make sure you are within tire and axle rating. That is just my opinion and we tow very comfortably and I feel safely.

As stated load up and hit the scales. See what your ACTUAL numbers are and how it tows on a few local trips. Then you will have a much better idea of what you REALLY want. You may decide you like the way things are now or you may feel that even with the "bigger" truck you are way under powered for your liking.

You are on the right track. Overthink now and be done with it, just make sure you know exactly what you are using to calculate your decision.

Jim


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## Camping Family From MI (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi Jim,

Thanks sharing your knowledge. DH does not know a whole lot about diesels. He has never worked on one, so that is another reason for choosing gas.

When our new adventure began, I was looking for a older diesel. After looking a few an not knowing enough we decided maybe should just get a gas vehicle. Then I found a deal on the 1500 locally which had upgrades on axle etc, towing rating seemed fine. So, we bought it. I should have left it at that but I continued to read this board and RV.net. Then our first camping trip last weekend we observed that the majority of trucks were 3/4 ton. Started questing our decision.

In June, we have a 500 mile (one way) trip planned. I saw the post about the overturn Outback. That scared the daylights out of me. Then silly me mention my concerns to our grown son and he got the ball rolling on this new 2500. DH seems fine with getting the new truck. I am very financially conservative, so I am having a hard time.

Thanks again,

Kelly


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Camping Family From MI said:


> The payload is my actual worry. Truck would be carrying 3 adults and a teenager plus the tongue weight of 560. We have a cap but could remove it for travel. I should weight,great idea about actually weighting. I tend to over think and over research everything. I just don't want to overload and create any potential issues (i have read it is illegal to be over the GVRW on a vehicle and insurance not cover because of it. Might not even be true just scary to me.)
> 
> Sure wish I truly understood payload. My take on GVVW 6650 = 5316 (Curb Weight) + 1330 (payload) -- So in order to be under the GVWR the tongue weight and the people the truck is carrying shouldn't exceed 1330. With the tongue weight of 560 that would only leave 770 for the people and all the camping stuff we want to carry. Numbers just don't seem to be working for me. Hope someone can tell me I am wrong on the way I am looking a payload. Am I wrong? Someone please correct me.
> 
> ...


Your tounge weight will likely be over 560.









The legal issue is brought up constantly, but I haven't seen anyone produce evidence. Furthermore, most 3/4 ton trucks pulling 5'ers are over their GVWR.

If you ask me, worry more about what is safe, what will have good durability, and what will make you comfortable. Even without being able to quantify the difference, the 3/4 ton truck is a positive in each of those categories. I say if you can afford it and like the truck, go for it. If you can't/choose not to afford it, we can help make suggestions on how to get the current setup to work well.

I would like to make 1 more comment on safety: I've seen SUV's, 1/2 tons, and a 1 ton dually flipped. I really beleive that part of being safe is following these guidelines:
> Watch your speed - trailer tires are rated at 65mph max speed.
> Drive defensively - it takes longer to start and stop a loaded rig... plan accordingly
> Don't swerve - a sharp steering input to avoid an animal can easily land you in the ditch
> Pay attention to your rig - If you get sway, apply the trailer brakes and slow down. If its windy, slow down. If road conditions are bad, slow down. If you don't feel like you are in control, SLOW DOWN... 
> Wear your seatbelt - things can always go wrong, and any TV can be overpowered by the TT if the conditions are wrong. Understanding that we are not immune to the dangers is what separates Adults from Teenagers!!!


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## Camping Family From MI (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks Nathan,

DH is definitely an excellent and safe driver. I don't worry at all with him behind the wheel. However, I would like to take turns driving to give him a break. I tend to get scared and over correct (at least when we had sway with the pop-up). Something I definitely need to work on. As far as the rest of the safety, I think I am pretty good with. I would have trouble hitting an animal without trying to avoid it. I think I would feel more confident with the 2500.

Kelly


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Camping Family From MI said:


> Thanks Nathan,
> 
> DH is definitely an excellent and safe driver. I don't worry at all with him behind the wheel. However, I would like to take turns driving to give him a break. I tend to get scared and over correct (at least when we had sway with the pop-up). Something I definitely need to work on. As far as the rest of the safety, I think I am pretty good with. I would have trouble hitting an animal without trying to avoid it. I think I would feel more confident with the 2500.
> 
> Kelly


If you see an animal, you can hit the brakes, but DON't swerve. I know it is instinct. A few years back, coming across Minnesota at night I had a deer cross in front of me. I managed to get my foot to the brakes as it disappeared under the hoodline of the truck. I have no clue how close I came to it, but there was no impact, so it must have made it. The reason things turned out ok is that I held the steering wheel straight and therefore kept the rig in control. Colorado Dirtbikers had a similar experience in Minnesota with a deer that was slightly slower and resulted in needing some front end work







. Again though, he held it straight and came out just fine. After his experience he warned everyone on here and that prepared me for my experience. Just something that everyone should have in the back of their head.

Ok, now make that truck decision so everyone can give pointers on how to get it setup correctly (You'll still need an equalizer or Reese dual cam hitch dialed in). Once you do that, your OB should sit nicely behind the OB in most any conditions.


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## Camping Family From MI (Feb 20, 2010)

Still can't make the decision but closer to the 2500.







Now, don't you feel sorry for my poor husband. All my financial decisions (the trailer, the first truck, etc) come this hard; with over analyzing, second guessing.

As far as hitch and weight distribution, we will probably have to upgrade (purchased Curt with 1000lb bars and a anti-sway bar from neighbors) ; but I can only make one decisions at time (and I have a really hard time with that).

Kelly


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

Nathan said:


> The payload is my actual worry. Truck would be carrying 3 adults and a teenager plus the tongue weight of 560. We have a cap but could remove it for travel. I should weight,great idea about actually weighting. I tend to over think and over research everything. I just don't want to overload and create any potential issues (i have read it is illegal to be over the GVRW on a vehicle and insurance not cover because of it. Might not even be true just scary to me.)
> 
> Sure wish I truly understood payload. My take on GVVW 6650 = 5316 (Curb Weight) + 1330 (payload) -- So in order to be under the GVWR the tongue weight and the people the truck is carrying shouldn't exceed 1330. With the tongue weight of 560 that would only leave 770 for the people and all the camping stuff we want to carry. Numbers just don't seem to be working for me. Hope someone can tell me I am wrong on the way I am looking a payload. Am I wrong? Someone please correct me.
> 
> ...


Your tounge weight will likely be over 560.









The legal issue is brought up constantly, but I haven't seen anyone produce evidence. Furthermore, most 3/4 ton trucks pulling 5'ers are over their GVWR.

If you ask me, worry more about what is safe, what will have good durability, and what will make you comfortable. Even without being able to quantify the difference, the 3/4 ton truck is a positive in each of those categories. I say if you can afford it and like the truck, go for it. If you can't/choose not to afford it, we can help make suggestions on how to get the current setup to work well.

I would like to make 1 more comment on safety: I've seen SUV's, 1/2 tons, and a 1 ton dually flipped. I really beleive that part of being safe is following these guidelines:
> Watch your speed - trailer tires are rated at 65mph max speed.
> Drive defensively - it takes longer to start and stop a loaded rig... plan accordingly
> Don't swerve - a sharp steering input to avoid an animal can easily land you in the ditch
> Pay attention to your rig - If you get sway, apply the trailer brakes and slow down. If its windy, slow down. If road conditions are bad, slow down. If you don't feel like you are in control, SLOW DOWN... 
> Wear your seatbelt - things can always go wrong, and any TV can be overpowered by the TT if the conditions are wrong. Understanding that we are not immune to the dangers is what separates Adults from Teenagers!!!








[/quote]

100% agree. The driver is the most important link in safety. I drive around 2000 miles a week and I see some pretty stupid stuff every day. In the case of deer good job staying straight! I know its hard to do. Last year there was a nasty accident on the Ohio turnpike where a family was killed when the driver swerved for a deer and the car flipped. We had a driver flip his rear trailer (we pull doubles) when he swerved to miss a deer. Bad thing is he should have known better. We're drilled on this. You STAY STRAIGHT AND HIT THE DEER! PERIOD! Deer die or people die, its an easy choice. All your points are excellent but I will add that you should keep your eyes looking far down the road. People on an interstate tend to get focused on the end of their hood or the back of the car in front of them. They dont see what is developing a half mile down the road. Anyway. I guess were off topic and I'll return you to your normally scheduled program!


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

Camping Family From MI said:


> When our new adventure began, I was looking for a older diesel. After looking a few an not knowing enough we decided maybe should just get a gas vehicle.


I'm just learning more about my Diesel truck after owning it for 3-4 years. One thing that is different is that you only have to worry about air and fuel, usually fuel, if the engine won't run. On a gasser, you have to add on the spark and all the electronics that goes with that along with the air pollution stuff, something older diesels don't have. The problems I've had with my diesel has been gelled fuel (twice) and the fuel lift pump. The Cons to a diesel is that parts generally cost more than with a gas engine. The Pro is that it last a lot longer and if taken care of, requires less major work than a gasser. just thought you would like to know so it throws another wrench into the gears,


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## CautiousCamper (Jun 27, 2006)

I agree with weighing things before you get too bogged down with calculations/speculations.
Know the Gross vehicular weight rating of your truck and the Gross combined weight rating of truck and trailer.
Weigh the whole rig, loaded with all the people, things, full tank of gas, propane, etc. at a truck scale and find out if there is any potential problem.
I did the same with our 1/2 ton GMC truck and found that we were under the GCVWR by about 1000 lbs but only 70 lb under the truck's GVWR, which I gather, is your concern as well.
Our truck towed ok. For me, ok wasn't good enough and I went and bought a new Chev 3/4 ton diesel.
Like you said, that may not be possible, or necessary.
Good luck.


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## Camping Family From MI (Feb 20, 2010)

Thank You everyone.

About the deer. 
My DH has instructed me on what to do with a deer. Just hope don't ever have that problem. But I will do my best to slow and stay straight.

About the truck.
We decided to buy the new one.







Looks like we can get it this weekend. What tipped the scale was that I can get a "lifetime warranty". Gives me piece of mind to know that we can keep it 10 years and it will still be running.

Thank You!







Thank You!







Thank You







for sharing your experiences.

Kelly


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

This is what you do for the deer







Its called a ranch hand full replacement bumper and weighs as much as any deer. Hit deer, hose off remnants and start the bbq grill


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## Camping Family From MI (Feb 20, 2010)

Eww! DH would not want me to hit it to hard; that would be a waste of meat. He had a deer run into the side of his truck. It left a dent but not bad. It ended up in the freezer.

Kelly


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

Camping Family From MI said:


> Eww! DH would not want me to hit it to hard; that would be a waste of meat. He had a deer run into the side of his truck. It left a dent but not bad. It ended up in the freezer.
> 
> Kelly


You may waste the meat, but I don't think you could hit a deer hard enough to get past that bumper and damge the truck. Well worth it for us diesel guys. Costs about as much as an intercooler. So it would pay for itself after one deer.

Good luck with the new rig.

Jim


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## Camping Family From MI (Feb 20, 2010)

Joonbee said:


> Eww! DH would not want me to hit it to hard; that would be a waste of meat. He had a deer run into the side of his truck. It left a dent but not bad. It ended up in the freezer.
> 
> Kelly


You may waste the meat, but I don't think you could hit a deer hard enough to get past that bumper and damge the truck. Well worth it for us diesel guys. Costs about as much as an intercooler. So it would pay for itself after one deer.

Good luck with the new rig.

Jim
[/quote]

It also make the truck look cool.

Who knows someday we might advance to a diesel. It only took us a little over a month to go from a 1/2 ton to a 3/4. Diesel might be the next step. Sure hope its not next month. lol

Kelly


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Camping Family From MI said:


> Eww! DH would not want me to hit it to hard; that would be a waste of meat. He had a deer run into the side of his truck. It left a dent but not bad. It ended up in the freezer.
> 
> Kelly


You may waste the meat, but I don't think you could hit a deer hard enough to get past that bumper and damge the truck. Well worth it for us diesel guys. Costs about as much as an intercooler. So it would pay for itself after one deer.

Good luck with the new rig.

Jim
[/quote]

It also make the truck look cool.

Who knows someday we might advance to a diesel. It only took us a little over a month to go from a 1/2 ton to a 3/4. Diesel might be the next step. Sure hope its not next month. lol

Kelly
[/quote]

Congrats on your decision!

Please post pics!!


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

Camping Family From MI said:


> Eww! DH would not want me to hit it to hard; that would be a waste of meat. He had a deer run into the side of his truck. It left a dent but not bad. It ended up in the freezer.
> 
> Kelly


You may waste the meat, but I don't think you could hit a deer hard enough to get past that bumper and damge the truck. Well worth it for us diesel guys. Costs about as much as an intercooler. So it would pay for itself after one deer.

Good luck with the new rig.

Jim
[/quote]

It also make the truck look cool.

Who knows someday we might advance to a diesel. It only took us a little over a month to go from a 1/2 ton to a 3/4. Diesel might be the next step. Sure hope its not next month. lol

Kelly
[/quote]

Yeah it definately doesn't hurt in the looks department. Hopefully you can hold off on the diesel for a few months, if not you will run out of upgrading possibiliteis by the end of the year.


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## Camping Family From MI (Feb 20, 2010)

I wouldn't want to run out of vehicle upgrades, would I?









Not too worried; funds are sure to run out before upgrades.

Kelly


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

Camping Family From MI said:


> I wouldn't want to run out of vehicle upgrades, would I?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh they always do. Loooonnnnngggg before


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

Camping Family From MI said:


> I wouldn't want to run out of vehicle upgrades, would I?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Upgrades? Im just hoping funds make it through the monthly payment! Congrats! Cant wait to see it. Those new Dodge's are sweet.


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## Camping Family From MI (Feb 20, 2010)

rsm7 said:


> I wouldn't want to run out of vehicle upgrades, would I?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Upgrades? Im just hoping funds make it through the monthly payment! Congrats! Cant wait to see it. Those new Dodge's are sweet.
[/quote]

Funds should be fine, although I still have sticker shock. I'm just getting a base model. No Laramie for me, just an ST.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

If you hit a deer going highway speeds, expect 2000-4000 in damage. Bumper costs maybe 1000. One drawback to a diesel is the air cooler, and big expensive radiator. They all have very expensive headlights anymore.

I hit a small one. It might have weighed 125lbs. It was a white tail too. It hit the truck down low. But still my ac condensor, air cooler, and radiator is bowed inward. Been this way for 1/4 million miles.

Out west the mule deer weigh 300lbs often. Hit one without a bumper and you will need a tow truck. Well, 2 tow trucks. One for the truck and one for the trailer. Youll need a body shop and paint repair too. Maybe even inner stucture replacement. One mule deer can cost you 5000 in repairs real easy if you have a diesel truck.

Im now good for deer. I just worry about elk. Ive had 3 near miss's in 2 weeks. Even a bumper wont help with those dudes.

Carey


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## navycranes (May 29, 2008)

Did you get the new 2500 yet?

I don&#146;t want to ruin all the fun but IMHO the 5.7L V8 is too small of a motor for the Ram 2500. I like what Ford and GM did going with a bigger gas motor in their heavy duty trucks.

I had a Ram 1500 that was outfitted just like yours. A new set of airbags in the back make my 28RSS tow just fine. Quite a bit cheaper than a new truck. I only upgraded to an SUV because I ran out of seats. Had nothing to do with how it towed.


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## Camping Family From MI (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi appreciate your opinion.

We are picking it up tomorrow morning.

Thanks again,

Kelly


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## navycranes (May 29, 2008)

Anyone remember the days when the difference between a 1500, 2500 and 3500 was how many leafs were in the rear springs? Other than that, they were pretty much the same truck.


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## toolman (Jul 12, 2005)

I just bought a 2010 Ram 2500 Diesel Laramie last week. I get my side steps installed on Monday so my DW and kids can get in a little easier. I look forward to pulling the tt to Lassen in a few weeks.


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## Camping Family From MI (Feb 20, 2010)

toolman said:


> I just bought a 2010 Ram 2500 Diesel Laramie last week. I get my side steps installed on Monday so my DW and kids can get in a little easier. I look forward to pulling the tt to Lassen in a few weeks.


Congrats on the new truck.

I going to need some of the steps too; just put them on the 1500 we are trading.

Kelly


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## Camping Family From MI (Feb 20, 2010)

Decision made. Our new TV is home.









Thanks Again Outbackers.

Kelly


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## Duanesz (Jul 10, 2009)

I always liked a blue truck....


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Looks like a great match for the OB graphics!!!!


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## Camping Family From MI (Feb 20, 2010)

It looks like the our Outback and Truck are made for each other.

We won't be able to try them out together this weekend, DS's graduation ceremony is tomorrow. We will take them for a test ride next weekend.


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

It is beautiful. Good luck with both.

Jim


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