# Worry Wart?



## vendorsw21 (Oct 31, 2008)

Hi Everybody! 
I really enjoy this forum. Tons of information and friendly people. Although I think I know the answer to my question but I'd like to draw on the vast knowledge base of experience. So here goes... we bought 2009 Outback 210RS. Beautiful trailer. We will be picking it up in the spring. My problem is I have a Toyota Tundra 4.7 litre double cab with a GCVW of 13500 lb and the vehicle curb weight is 5200 lb and the GVWT is 6700 lb. Keystone claims that the shipping weight is 4865 lb. Do they mean dry weight? And do I have enough truck to haul this thing? I will also be running a husky WD hitch with sway control. Toyoto has told me I can tow 8100 lb which I now know is not completely correct. What are your opinions?
Thanks


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## Joe 30450 (Oct 13, 2008)

Hi vendorsw21 ! & Welcome

For me, what i can told you it's my TT is Grand Cherokee 4.7 liters and it tow my 21 RS really easily. In the book it says i can tow 6500 lbs max and with a 21 rs in the back there's no problem. Finally the 4865 lbs it's Dry weight for the trailer. I think you are really in business with your Tundra. Enjoy your new trailer, you did a really good purchase.

Ciao


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

vendorsw21 said:


> Hi Everybody!
> I really enjoy this forum. Tons of information and friendly people. Although I think I know the answer to my question but I'd like to draw on the vast knowledge base of experience. So here goes... we bought 2009 Outback 210RS. Beautiful trailer. We will be picking it up in the spring. My problem is I have a Toyota Tundra 4.7 litre double cab with a GCVW of 13500 lb and the vehicle curb weight is 5200 lb and the GVWT is 6700 lb. *Keystone claims that the shipping weight is 4865 lb.* Do they mean dry weight? And do I have enough truck to haul this thing? I will also be running a husky WD hitch with sway control. Toyoto has told me I can tow 8100 lb which I now know is not completely correct. What are your opinions?
> Thanks


*Welcome to the Outbackers...Glad you found us!!!








*
To answer your question - yes - they mean *dry weight*. For the 210RS per Keystone its *4845*. The carrying capacity is listed at *2705* for a total max weight of *7550*. These are what is found on the Keystone website.

There are some Toyota TV owners here that I will let answer your towing questions.

Again, *Welcome and Happy Camping!!
*


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

Please keep in mind that DRY weight is NO PROPANE, NO HITCH, NO BATTERIES, water, food, clothes, ANYTHING -- you will weigh in at 6000 easy after you load it with minimal camping items....

You need to do the math and calculate what you can PULL and what you can safely TOW (two different amounts) ... the pulling # is pretty easy to figure out and i will say that your truck can easily pull the trailer ... -- the towing # is what gets folks in trouble -- by the time you add the 700 pounds of folks and 150 of fuel, and the 600 pounds of hitch -- well that normally doesn't leave allot of wiggle room normally on a 4.7L vehicle...


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

Hi.
I recently acquired a used 03 Toyota Tundra 4.7L SR5 Access Cab. I figured the towing capacity to be around 7K pounds. That said, with past experience, I'm trying to find a suitable TT that it can tow. There are two that I'm definitely considering: Palomino Thoroughbred 265, Keystone Passport 245RB, and waiting to see what the Keystone Bullet is going to offer, as far as floor plans, etc.
I've talked to several dealers, and the Palominos have a good reputation and are well laid out. Also, the one I'm interested in has a corner shower vs. the bathtub with the clingy curtain.
One of the main goals I'm trying to achieve is to keep the dry weight AND carrying capacity around 6K# or below, to make sure I don't have to buy another TV.
Happy Hunting!
Darlene


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

The Nat'l RV show is next week.. There are a ton of new lightweight models debuting next week.

You should be able to find a 21 footer with a 3500-4000lb dry weight at the dealers lots here pretty quick..

Carey


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> The Nat'l RV show is next week.. There are a ton of new lightweight models debuting next week.
> 
> You should be able to find a 21 footer with a 3500-4000lb dry weight at the dealers lots here pretty quick..
> 
> Carey


Carey - He already has purchased the trailer.

There are several aspects to what is deemed safe and you can split hairs to the point a 1 ton truck can not pull a pop up but you have what you have so we will look at your combination and a few guidelines to help decide if the combination is good.

As Ghosty mentioned you have to add the weight of everything you pack to the trailer when doing you calculation. Short of doing that I like to use the Gross weight first and see how it matches up. The first guideline is that you should not tow more then 80% of the TV capacity. The Gross for your trailer is 7550 and your capacity you mentioned is 8100, so you would be at 93%. The guideline is not hard and fast but using it normally allows for you to load your family and still be under your weight limit. You would not believe how fast you can load a trailer to the CC with camping stuff. You will need to have your trailer weighed once you load it to see how it actually measures.

Another guild line is TV wheel base relative to trailer length. The TV wheel base to trailer length is "A tow vehicle should have a minimum wheel base of 100 inches. A wheel base of 110 inches is recommended for a 20 foot trailer. For every additional foot of trailer length (above 20') add 4 inches to the wheel base. i.e., a 22 foot trailer=118 inches wheel base, a 24 foot trailer=126 inches wheel base." Not sure what your wheel base is but I am sure it should be fine for your 21 foot trailer. This guideline relates to how well you can control sway.

Where you tow has an impact, staying on flat ground and you will have a very good time, hit the mountains and you may find yourself on the side of the road with a failed transmission or other issue since you significantly increasing the stresses on the TV.

Last but not least a reminder that the nut behind the wheel has to be adjusted for the driving difference that occurs when towing. This adjustment has the greatest impact on safe towing no matter what combination you have.


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

CamperAndy said:


> The Nat'l RV show is next week.. There are a ton of new lightweight models debuting next week.
> 
> You should be able to find a 21 footer with a 3500-4000lb dry weight at the dealers lots here pretty quick..
> 
> Carey


Carey - He already has purchased the trailer.

There are several aspects to what is deemed safe and you can split hairs to the point a 1 ton truck can not pull a pop up but you have what you have so we will look at your combination and a few guidelines to help decide if the combination is good.

As Ghosty mentioned you have to add the weight of everything you pack to the trailer when doing you calculation. Short of doing that I like to use the Gross weight first and see how it matches up. The first guideline is that you should not tow more then 80% of the TV capacity. The Gross for your trailer is 7550 and your capacity you mentioned is 8100, so you would be at 93%. The guideline is not hard and fast but using it normally allows for you to load your family and still be under your weight limit. You would not believe how fast you can load a trailer to the CC with camping stuff. You will need to have your trailer weighed once you load it to see how it actually measures.

Another guild line is TV wheel base relative to trailer length. The TV wheel base to trailer length is "A tow vehicle should have a minimum wheel base of 100 inches. A wheel base of 110 inches is recommended for a 20 foot trailer. For every additional foot of trailer length (above 20') add 4 inches to the wheel base. i.e., a 22 foot trailer=118 inches wheel base, a 24 foot trailer=126 inches wheel base." Not sure what your wheel base is but I am sure it should be fine for your 21 foot trailer. This guideline relates to how well you can control sway.

Where you tow has an impact, staying on flat ground and you will have a very good time, hit the mountains and you may find yourself on the side of the road with a failed transmission or other issue since you significantly increasing the stresses on the TV.

Last but not least a reminder that the nut behind the wheel has to be adjusted for the driving difference that occurs when towing. This adjustment has the greatest impact on safe towing no matter what combination you have.

[/quote]

Are the numbers that Keystone provides estimates? Is it the RVIA label within each trailer that shows the acutual weights of that specific trailer? I know the best is to weigh the unit on a scale, but, I was just curious as to if this label is a good source, as opposed to , the spec charts on the TT brochures.

Thanks


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

You will get various answers on this but the number in the trailer is suppose to be that trailers weight as it rolled out of the factory but again dry weight is not the number to use when towing. The gross is the trailer "Rating" so you should use that number as you really should not exceed that when you load it. Thus you need to load your trailer and get it weighed. Anything less then the gross trailer rating and you have a good number to work from.


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

CamperAndy said:


> Last but not least a reminder that the nut behind the wheel has to be adjusted for the driving difference that occurs when towing. This adjustment has the greatest impact on safe towing no matter what combination you have.


I've encountered a few nuts behind the wheel, that would be better suited on a bicycle.


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

CamperAndy said:


> The Nat'l RV show is next week.. There are a ton of new lightweight models debuting next week.
> 
> You should be able to find a 21 footer with a 3500-4000lb dry weight at the dealers lots here pretty quick..
> 
> Carey


Carey - He already has purchased the trailer.

[/quote]

Me thinks his post was to sgalady's post...


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> The Nat'l RV show is next week.. There are a ton of new lightweight models debuting next week.
> 
> You should be able to find a 21 footer with a 3500-4000lb dry weight at the dealers lots here pretty quick..
> 
> Carey


Carey - He already has purchased the trailer.

[/quote]

Me thinks his post was to sgalady's post...
[/quote]

It was.. I forgot to use the correct button to show her reply.. Sorry.

Carey


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

What year Double Cab? I had an '04 DC and a 21RS and for me it was a miserable tow. Always ran with O/D off. When I towed in high heat I would have to turn the A/C off to move off a stop. Either that or just stand on it. With the A/C on I was down in the 7mpg range. Going down a few rough hills , I could feel the brakes starting to fade. Ditched that truck after maybe 4 trips, life is too short to drive uncomfortable or concerned ,and that truck was no gem anyways. Others feel the old Tundra was suitable and maybe because they had a HP increase in '05.


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## Dan V (May 21, 2006)

No experience with Toyota but I started towing my 21RS with a Chevy 1500 with a 4.8L V-8 . Seemed like loads of power until I hooked up the trailer , not enough torgue , towed OK on the flats and slight incline . Nowhere near enough power for real hills or a sustained incline . Also a "WHITE KNUCKLE " ride all the time , both hands on the wheel , scared to let one go for more than a second ! About three trips and I bought a HD2500 and things are better now , may be overkill now but it feels like driving my car now . Real nice to tow and feel NO ISSUES going on .


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## bassplunker (Dec 2, 2003)

I've towed my 21RS many times with my 2001 Tundra Access Cab w/ the 4.7. I used to use overdrive but since having my Trans. replaced I lock out O.D. Dealer said there was a weak gear in the trans that was inherent in Tundras. I've towed it full of water, 3 dirtbikes in the bed, and my 135 lb. generator up Cajon Summit but had to drop into 2nd. I've been to Seqouia National Park quite a few times and it handles the trip pretty good. I disagree with the person who said it's always a white knuckle experience though. A good sway control and correct loading has been the key and I never have any problems towing it. I've towed it in really windy conditions and it rides very nice. However, the 4.7 isn't enough power for the 21RS and you'll end up with a bunch of angry people lined up behind you on long grades. They'll be in their cars, but they could probably run fast enough to keep up with you, LOL. The 2001 has a trans cooler as standard equipment but I think they made it optional in later years. Not sure what years though. You should definetly get a trans temperature gauge. I think in 2004 they upgraded to more horsepower and a 5 speed automatic trans which would be better for towing. Mileage averages about 8 mpg.


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