# New Style Batteries?



## mike elliott (Dec 17, 2007)

I,m just wondering with all these new type of batteries for portable drills (litium ion, lithium cad, nicad ,etc) . then there,s electric automobiles with there batterypacs. is there anything new for our trailers? I figured with all the differnt folks out here in outbackers world somebody might know. I thought this would be a good place to start a conversation about batteries. all thoughts and comments apprecieated.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Cool topic! This will be interesting to follow.

I guess on first thought, my feeling would be that the new battery technologies are not terribly relevant to the requirements of the typical RV. Most of the technology centers on packaging more power into smaller, lighter batteries (usually at great expense). That is very important in cell phones and camcorders, and is also a significant hurdle for an electric powered car if you want any performance or range.

In an RV on the other hand, packaging is not a big issue. The batteries we use now provide the power most of us need, and don't take up much space relatively speaking. Looking at my Outback, I don't see where switching to a battery that is 1/2 or 1/10 the size of the current batteries really buys me anything. Certainly nothing that warrants paying the premium that Ni-Cad or Li-ion is going to cost.

Now, if the goal is to significantly increase battery capacity over what we have now, that's another story. But even at that, there is plenty of room within the frame to add a huge bank of our good old deep-cycle wet cells at little cost. Adds a bunch of weight - and that means gallons of fuel used to tote it all around - but again, I'm not sure the cost:benefit ratio makes higher tech batteries really worthwhile.









Along a similar vein (and not to hijack the thread), I saw that at the recent RV Manufactures trade show Winnebago was showing a Hybrid Class 'A' concept. Now that could be interesting.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## mike elliott (Dec 17, 2007)

pdx doug what i was thinking was a drop in battery with way more amp hours .something you could just replace your batteries with something that would last way longer. I just about always dry camp and running the generator just plain sucks.


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

I have 6 Li-ion batteries in my van at work for the cordless tools and as far of the improvements over the older style ni-cad they still don't like the cold. James


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## outback loft (Sep 22, 2008)

I have yet to find it cost effective to put in a ni-cd or li-ion battery into the trailer. I am running a 850 a/hr sealed gel battery that will last me 4 days per battery with the stereo running most of the day, tv/sat tuner for maybe 2 hours a day, and lights/ water pump on and off throughout the day. I am working on installing a 200 watt solar panel, that on a clear day will break even on my power usage, so I can run off battery power for days, and only need my generator to say run the microwave, or if that hot out the air conditioning.


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## Justman (Jul 22, 2006)

The new lithium ion batteries are pretty dang cool.... Long legs in a smaller package, but the price you pay is pretty steep. I don't know if I would buy one if they were available for camping, but I might consider it if I were doing week long dry camps. As it is, I'm hard pressed to get away to a spot without any power. I like to be comfortable when I sleep while still "getting away" from it all. That means the AC and heater have to be operable....

As it stands, I can see a good bit of research and investment going into making batteries that are smaller, lighter, and pack a greater punch, especially as we move towards electric and hybrid vehicles. Who knows what some brilliant dude will come up with in a few years! The flux capacitor???


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## mike elliott (Dec 17, 2007)

outback loft said:


> I have yet to find it cost effective to put in a ni-cd or li-ion battery into the trailer. I am running a 850 a/hr sealed gel battery that will last me 4 days per battery with the stereo running most of the day, tv/sat tuner for maybe 2 hours a day, and lights/ water pump on and off throughout the day. I am working on installing a 200 watt solar panel, that on a clear day will break even on my power usage, so I can run off battery power for days, and only need my generator to say run the microwave, or if that hot out the air conditioning.


So what brand /cost are your gel batteries?


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## outback loft (Sep 22, 2008)

bcdude said:


> I have yet to find it cost effective to put in a ni-cd or li-ion battery into the trailer. I am running a 850 a/hr sealed gel battery that will last me 4 days per battery with the stereo running most of the day, tv/sat tuner for maybe 2 hours a day, and lights/ water pump on and off throughout the day. I am working on installing a 200 watt solar panel, that on a clear day will break even on my power usage, so I can run off battery power for days, and only need my generator to say run the microwave, or if that hot out the air conditioning.


So what brand /cost are your gel batteries?
[/quote]

The gel batteries I have are o7 brand from Napa auto parts, they run a little over $150 per battery and they have a 7 year warranty. In past experiences the gel batteries have a longer lifespan over standard deep cycle batteries, which I usually get about 2 years from, So I would say that even if the gel battery lasts me 4 years, I will bring it back into Napa and get myself a new one.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

I think one of the hurdles will be charge/discharge cycles. For the Hybrid cars (Prius, Escape, etc), a lot of the majic has been managing the charge/discharge to get a decent life out of the batteries. Trailers wouldn't need that much life, but a lead acid battery is extremely forgiving compared to these new batteries when managing the charge.


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

I have read about a company in the NE that is producing a new type of Li Ion battery that last longer and can be recharged with out loosing power over 1000X as opposed to 150X with the normal cells. They are looking to start producing them for electric cars as well as to use to even out the power on the electric lines. But for an RV either a good Gel battery or a golf cart battery will do better for less money for the same power.


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## mike elliott (Dec 17, 2007)

Okay so does anybody else use the gel type batteries? do the gel batteries come in 6 volt? what is the real reasons that 2 6 volt batteries are better then 12 volt? I,m really trying to get my head around this battery issue and what really is the best set up. all info appreciated.


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

Wait a second....an 850 amp-hour, gel battery that costs $150 bucks??? Is that EIGHT HUNDRED AND FIFTY amp-hours, or cranking amps?? Even a marine 8D gel battery only has about 225 amp-hours, and 1500 cranking amps. But, they're also almost two feet long, weigh about 150 pounds, and usually cost several hundred dollars each.

Are you running 8D's in your trailer, Outback Loft?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Insomniak said:


> Wait a second....an 850 amp-hour, gel battery that costs $150 bucks??? Is that EIGHT HUNDRED AND FIFTY amp-hours, or cranking amps?? Even a marine 8D gel battery only has about 225 amp-hours, and 1500 cranking amps. But, they're also almost two feet long, weigh about 150 pounds, and usually cost several hundred dollars each.
> 
> Are you running 8D's in your trailer, Outback Loft?


The 850 has to be CCA not the 20 or 100 amp-hour rating.


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## Wolfpackers (May 31, 2007)

bcdude said:


> what is the real reasons that 2 6 volt batteries are better then 12 volt?


The main reason is that the 6 volt batteries being discussed are golf cart batteries and have much more lead in them than a standard 12V marine battery. My old 12V that came with the camper weighs around 30 lbs or so and EACH of my Trojan 6V T-105's weighs 68 lbs. The 6v's are just a better type battery for dry camping more than a few nites. Our first trip out with the 12v was for 4 nites of dry camping. We did our best to conserve by not using lights and only using the furnace to keep it 60* at nite, but on the last morning, we woke up to no power at all. Had to borrow a gen from someone to get the slide in so we could leave....wasn't going to crank it in if I didn't have to.

Hope this info helps.
Brent


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## mike elliott (Dec 17, 2007)

Wolfpackers said:


> what is the real reasons that 2 6 volt batteries are better then 12 volt?


The main reason is that the 6 volt batteries being discussed are golf cart batteries and have much more lead in them than a standard 12V marine battery. My old 12V that came with the camper weighs around 30 lbs or so and EACH of my Trojan 6V T-105's weighs 68 lbs. The 6v's are just a better type battery for dry camping more than a few nites. Our first trip out with the 12v was for 4 nites of dry camping. We did our best to conserve by not using lights and only using the furnace to keep it 60* at nite, but on the last morning, we woke up to no power at all. Had to borrow a gen from someone to get the slide in so we could leave....wasn't going to crank it in if I didn't have to.

Hope this info helps.
Brent
[/quote]
so are you saying there is a diference between golf cart batteries and regular 6 volt batteries and if there is how do tell them apart?


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

Yes there is a diference between a standard 12v, 6v and a 6v golf cart battery. A standard 12 auto battrery has thin lead plates with a small gap between them. Half of the plates go to the + side and the other half go to the - side. A standard 6v battery will have half the lead plates of the standard 12v battery BUT the plates are thicker. A 6v golf cart battery has even thicker plates than the standard 6v battey thats why it weighs more than a standard 12v and the standard 6v. James


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## n2striper (Jul 21, 2007)

Generator.


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

Before I got my dual 6volt Trojan batteries and solar panel I did a fair amount of research on batteries. I was mainly looking at the difference between the lead acid types and the gel or AGM batteries. The AGM batteries, Optima for example, are very good for some situations but carry a pretty high price and don't really give you any more capacity. They also do best with a slightly different charging voltage and I didn't want to bother with that. When you just look at the cost and performance it's hard to beat the dual 6volt golf cart batteries. The solar panel keeps us going even longer and I've got the Honda generators if we want to run things like the AC. I would recommend going with some good lead acid batteries and some type of solar charging system if you want to dry camp a lot. A small generator will take care of anything else.


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