# Delamination



## TwoElkhounds

Hi all,

Washing my 2006 25RSS last night, I noticed that the fiberglass under one of the clearance lights on the front of the trailer has begun to delaminate. The area is about 8 inches around is very soft and it appears that the fiberglass gel coat has detatched from the backing board. It has not bubbled up too bad as of yet, but it is definately not right. No point in posting a picture as it would not show anything. It is only noticeable from touch. Skin feels very thin and fragile when compared to the surrounding area.

So, as I lied in bed last night fuming over my misfortune, I began to run over possible repair scenarios in my mind (needless to say, I did not sleep well). One idea I had was to remove the clearance light and use a syringe to inject resin down into the affected area to fill the void. Then apply pressure from the outside of the skin while the resin cured, hopefully stopping the spread of the disease. I got up and did a little research on the Internet and this popped up as a typical repair solution for delamination on boat hulls.

Has anyone tried this delamination repair technique on their Outback or other RV? If so, any tips on how to do it and what products to use? From what I read, it seems Polyester Resin is recommended over Epoxy resin for this type of repair since it does not heat as much during the cure process, but I am no expert on this.

Also, as delamination appears to be a pretty widespread problem on Outbacks, can anyone who has had the problem give me an idea how long I have before it becomes terminal and requires replacement of the affected panel?

I am worried about doing more harm than good if I attempt such a repair.

Thanks in advance.

DAN


----------



## CamperAndy

It is worth a shot for sure. The backing on the front skin of the trailer is a thin hard board material over fiber glass insulation. So you will have very little in the way of compression to re bond everything. If you try this I think you will need to remove enough screws so you can get to the back of the damaged area to apply pressure from both the front and back when you inject the resin.


----------



## TwoElkhounds

CamperAndy said:


> It is worth a shot for sure. The backing on the front skin of the trailer is a thin hard board material over fiber glass insulation. So you will have very little in the way of compression to re bond everything. If you try this I think you will need to remove enough screws so you can get to the back of the damaged area to apply pressure from both the front and back when you inject the resin.


I was thinking of using an air pillow under a piece of plywood formed to match the curve of the trailer. Then taking a strap and wrapping it around the trailer and tightening it to apply pressure. I did not think about removing the outside edge bracket and getting behind as well. Something to think about.

Thanks for the advice.

DAN


----------



## wade2006

This may be covered under the warranty. I would definitely check on this, especially since this is an ongoing outback problem.


----------



## CamperAndy

ok2az said:


> This may be covered under the warranty. I would definitely check on this, especially since this is an ongoing outback problem.


No longer on an 06


----------



## puffer

If its out of warranty give it a shot. Its baisicly Luan wood with a very thin layer of fiberglass glued to it.


----------



## Roo

The outside isn't fiberglass, but rather a material call filon. It doesn't repair like fiberglass. It has a very specific glue that is used to bond it to the luan wood. The glue allows the filon to move on the hot & cold days. The resin will glue it down & not allow it to move, possibly causing other problems. I would contact your nearest rv repair shop, might even be the dealer, & get some of that glue & try it. More importantly, delamination is usually caused by moisture getting in behind the filon through a seam or hole. Good luck & hope the repair works.

Eric


----------



## N7OQ

I had the front cap on my trailer replaced under warrenty and decided if it happens again I will do it myself. I think I would use a fiberglass panel instead of that cheap crap they use now. I can't believe they keep using the same old materal when they know it is a source of problems. I drive by a RV park on the way to work and there was a 5th wheel with a big hole in a side panel and the next day I drove by and it was repaired, it looked good and you could tell the panel was replaced because it was cleaner then the rest of the trailer. I need to stop by and talk to him about how he did it.


----------



## trgrenz

N7OQ said:


> I had the front cap on my trailer replaced under warrenty and decided if it happens again I will do it myself. I think I would use a fiberglass panel instead of that cheap crap they use now. I can't believe they keep using the same old materal when they know it is a source of problems. I drive by a RV park on the way to work and there was a 5th wheel with a big hole in a side panel and the next day I drove by and it was repaired, it looked good and you could tell the panel was replaced because it was cleaner then the rest of the trailer. I need to stop by and talk to him about how he did it.


We now have the dreaded problem on our 2006 23rs. Took it to the dealer and of course no warranty help, not even the extended warranty. Very frustrated at this point. Trailer has been covered since new, still looks and smells new. I have inspected it more than twice a year, I do it every time we use it and clean it. I even caulked everything that looked suspicious to me. To no avail, the thing delamed down the entire drivers side top to bottom on the front cap with no apparent reason why. What would be involved in changing the front cap and how much would it be for the parts. Dealer stated cost to warrant co. at 4200.00. That seems high to me. Any help would be appreciated. In the Orlando area.


----------



## sunnybrook29

I know nothing about 'filon' ,but if it was fiberglass you could very well inject thickened epoxy into the hole. I wonder why they are worried about the heat from epoxy. I have injected epoxy into many delaminated boat hulls and decks. 
Good Luck, BOB


----------



## Scoutr2

CamperAndy said:


> This may be covered under the warranty. I would definitely check on this, especially since this is an ongoing outback problem.


No longer on an 06
[/quote]

X2. In this economy . . . on a 4-year-old trailer . . . not a chance. There was a news report the other day on TV that said the unemployment rate in the vicinity of the Keystone factory (Elkhart?) is now DOWN to 16%, after Keystone called back some workers from layoff. Business has been picking up, which is a good thing. But things are still a far cry from "good." Just remember, Fleetwood went under during this downturn, so Keystone is lucky to still be alive. They have to watch their cash flow carefully.

I can see them fixing a 2008 or maybe even a 2007 model, but anything older than that would take a miracle. But it doesn't hurt to ask, and you'll need to hold off on any attempts to repair it until you get a definitive answer from Keystone. If you try to fix it first, their answer will be easy. A simple Nope!

Just my $.02.

Mike


----------



## Joe/GA

If you do decide to fix it, you can use vacuum pressure to push the filon against the luan. You just tape a sheet of plastic over the entire area and hook a vacuum hose to it. As you pull a vacuum on the area, atmospheric pressure forces the filon against the luan. You might want to use an old or cheap vacuum, because it will heat up due to reduced air flow over the motor. If it is powerful enough, you can engineer in a deliberate leak to give it some air flow for motor cooling. Just leaving the vacuum running as long as it takes for the glue to set.


----------



## Joe/GA

Is anyone getting delamination without water intrusion? I now have a shelter for my Outback and want to make sure that I never have this problem.


----------



## MJRey

Here's an old thread where one of the guys here replaced the front cap with aluminum sheet metal. Looks nice and it can't possibly delaminate again.

http://www.outbackers.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9980&st=0&p=129018&fromsearch=1&#entry129018


----------



## ronbrownsbc

If a little delamination on a camper trailer is causing someone to lose sleep, they have larger issues than that. Delamination is almost always caused by moisture getting in behind the filon. It's a real good idea to check all the seams on an RV at least once a year especially fixtures attached to the sidewalls. A good set of RV gutters and downspouts are a must anymore, keep the water from running off the roof down the sidewalls as much as possible.


----------



## Phil & Ellie

I was looking again at this site wondering if anyone else had delamin problems. We took our Sydney to Mike Thompson's and they said it would be $2,000 to repair. Well we picked up two weeks later with no repairs, because that is a steep price for never even using the trailer. We have noticed the delamination problem has all but disappeared. Maybe it is the heat in the Santa Clarita Valley. But it looks really good now. So we will check the seams and see how it goes over the winter and summer. But Nathan was a great help in your answers and we appreciate that. Just knowing other's have had similar problems help matters. But hopefully we will begin to use the RV more. But Ron Brown what do you mean by especially fixtures attached to the sidewalls, is that inside or outside? Hate to be real stupid. Thanks again.


----------



## kagiles

I have delamination on the front of my 2008 31rqs. I called Keystone and was told authoritatively over the phone that it wasn't covered under warranty because the damage could only come from water infiltration and water damage isn't covered by the warranty. I mentioned the roof had a 10 year warranty and they said the fact that I had a 10 year warranty was proof the roof wasn't the problem. I'm new to this kind of logic but it's clear they aren't interested in selling me my next camper.

I'm not really interested in getting it fixed "as good as new" because new didn't last very long. We sold our 1990 Trail Manor (17 years old) with no leaks or delamintion to get this new Keystone so I'm more than a little disappointed both in the product and customer service. I'm not a handyman and need someone to solve it right. I called the closest dealer and they echoed the Keystone logic. Does anyone know a reliable repair shop in SC, NC, GA or TN? It's worth the drive to get it done right. I know we'll be downsizing in a few years and I want the next owner to have complete confidence that this camper got the best of care. Despite the customer service.


----------



## Dub

I was told by an RV tech I talked to the other day to reseal the edge of the roof and around all of the lights on the front cap with silicone every year to avoid delamination.


----------



## daslobo777

Dub said:


> I was told by an RV tech I talked to the other day to reseal the edge of the roof and around all of the lights on the front cap with silicone every year to avoid delamination.


Hi,

Our camper was new in 2007 and in 2008 we had a keystone dealer do the sealing of our camper among other checks prior to a big trip. We have also waxed our camper I would say minimum twice a year, but wash frequently and my husband has checked the roof and caulking at those times as well. We are on our second cover as we do store under cover always when not in use. Not to mention, we don't have a lot of rain in AZ. Perhaps Keystone thinks we are washing and spraying down our camper too much. Now, to our disappointment, we have front end delamination despite following all the recommended requirements when buying the camper. I think it is typical for any rv tech or dealer to hit the record button and say "it is not under warranty, you needed to monitor and reseal, it's hard to say, but typically due to your fault and perhaps water leaking". In other words, there is no way, shape, or form that our material is defected no matter what you have read about the specific glue or filon material. The only real answer is you are an irresponsible camper owner, but please do come and buy our product again. This is our first keystone experience so one would hope that they will step up and do what is right for the customer. Whether there is a recession or not, businesses need integrity, morales, and honesty or they will no longer have a service to provide. Yes, I am expressing frustration because these are new campers people are writing about. We are going through it and I feel for others that are having the same problem.


----------

