# Laptop, Gps And Software?



## Herbicidal (Aug 29, 2003)

I posted this earlier over on TundraSolutions and thought I'd see what my friends here have to say.









Iâ€™m just starting to research the possibilities of using my hand-held Garmin E-trex Legend GPS unit to interface with software of some kind on a laptop.

This past weekend while 4 wheelin' with some friends in the back country and with various maps in hand, we still had a heck of time figuring out where we were on the trails (signs missing or shot apart). My GPS has a very small screen and is difficult to read when you are on an area of a topo map that is forest service land (very dark background).

After talking with a friend at work today, he said to check out The Official OziExplorer Web Site - GPS Mapping Software for Magellan, Garmin, Lowrance, Eagle, MLR Receivers for software that could be installed on a laptop and it works in conjunction with a GPS unit. I thought, PERFECT! I checked out the web site and it looks real promising. I would especially like to download forest service maps since that is a big chunk of what we end up on. I also really like the â€˜moving mapâ€™ feature and the optional 3D package. That would be WAY COOL!









So with this software, the GPS unit is only for locating my position and it then displays where I am on the laptop, which of course has a much bigger screen and is in color. At this point, I donâ€™t own a laptop. The system requirements for OziExplorer are pretty basic by todayâ€™s standards:

Desktop PC or Laptop running Windows 95/98/ME/NT4/2000/XP
CPU Pentium 200MHz or better (higher CPU speeds will work better) 
64 MB of RAM (preferably 256 or more) 
VGA Monitor 800x600 or greater preferred 
Mouse 
CD-ROM drive (if your maps are on CD)

I would be willing to buy a used laptop in the $200-$300 range. Has anyone tried this combination before? Are there other/better alternatives? I would prefer the laptop for the large screen as Iâ€™m not getting any younger and pictures from trips could be downloaded from my digital camera and stored on it, plus journal entries for family vacations (heading to Yellowstone for a week in June). I just think I would get a lot more out of a laptop then some other device. I can get a power inverter to run the laptop while driving, so battery power is not too much of an issue.

Thoughts, comments, personal experience?


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

Do you already have the Garmin Mapsource Topo loaded on the Legend? If not, you might consider that option.

The Etrex series is small and intended for handheld, close up use. I have a Magellan Sportrak Pro, and its screen isn't much bigger than the Legend. I like using it in the car, but it is difficult to focus on such a small screen. The newer color models have much brighter screens and better battery life.


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## Zymurgist (Apr 2, 2007)

Sounds like a plan, I've used my Garmin Legend handheld tethered to my laptop, I've got the cable that connects the two plus also plugs into 12V to power the GPS, I have three different mapping software programs that work with it, although none of them would help you with topo and/or serious off road stuff.

Delorme has some mapping software that might work for you, take a look at:

http://www.delorme.com/byUse/outdoorrecrea...recreation.aspx

Depending on how remote you are going, I'd still bring the paper backups, compass, all that good stuff. Also think about how the laptop is going to be mounted to prevent it from becoming part of someone's forehead or the windshield.

Good luck and have a blast.

Carl


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## LarryTheOutback (Jun 15, 2005)

I highly recommend Delorme's topo product for your off-road use. I don't use it personally, but I've got a frient who uses it with his Garmin GPS and he raves about it.

Ed


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

Herbicidal

Welcome to the world off the pavement..... You will find that a GPS unit is only a part of your navigation tool set. You will still need either paper or image based maps for a total navigation solution. I use paper maps and a GPS unit when motorcycle trail riding.

Generally use the GPS to establish a location and a history of travel but use the map to determine which fork in the trail to take based on the GPS location data, other visual factors, such as the blaze mark patterns on trees, rock/stone cairns/piles, and "gut instinct". Back tracking does happen!

You can find free digital map files for all 50 states at 
Libre Map Project

These are USGS Digital Raster Graphic (DRG) 1:24000 scale files in the tiff image format. For you CAD/Mapping folks there are tfw world files available too. These files are pretty big so if using an older lap top disk space could be an issue depending on the area size of interest.

Remember that the background maps in all GPS units are generalized due to storage constraint issues. MapSource Topo is ok but lacks details found on the paper maps or DRG image files or FS Travel Plan Maps.

Generally speaking the best map for a National Forest is going to be a "Travel Plan" Map for that Forest. Per FS policy documents the Travel Plan map must be updated at a minimum of an annual basis if used for motorized recreation regulation. (This is a short very abbreviated statement ...so don't flame me)

Map Guy


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

I have Delorme's topo map of the US and a Garmin Emap. It works good and you can download the CD'd to the computer hard drive and not have to bring the CD's with you. I later bought a Garmin hocky puck type GPS on ebay for 40 or 50 bucks and it plugs into your computers USB port and it gets it's power from the USB port. Works very well and makes for a nice compact unit. I have heard the National Geographics TOPO maps are better but they cost a lot of $$$$


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

Herbicidal said:


> I would be willing to buy a used laptop in the $200-$300 range. Has anyone tried this combination before? Are there other/better alternatives? I would prefer the laptop for the large screen as Iâ€™m not getting any younger and pictures from trips could be downloaded from my digital camera and stored on it, plus journal entries for family vacations (heading to Yellowstone for a week in June). I just think I would get a lot more out of a laptop then some other device. I can get a power inverter to run the laptop while driving, so battery power is not too much of an issue.
> 
> Thoughts, comments, personal experience?


 First of all, good luck at getting a good used laptop for $300. You would be better off getting a new one for a twice the price. you would get one that will last longer and have a new tech battery, better screen, and faster running system. I saw one at our local Hy Vee store for $350, but it was not worth the money because of a small hard drive and low memory.

As far as this program, It looks neat. I may have to download a demo. There might be a cheaper program out there. I would agree that if your going to spend that much money, and if your going 4 wheeling, you might be better served with a dedicated GPS navigation system. I have tryed to use my laptop and GPS system in the truck, but there was no good place to put it so I could see and use it, so that might be an issue.

Good luck with your quest.


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## Rubrhammer (Nov 27, 2006)

I use this for on road use. I understand that they also offer topo info. I like it for travel planning and have used it to check how far I went while cross country skiing. 
Bob


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## OregonCampin (Mar 9, 2007)

We have two Garmin Rinos - the version that has the built in radios and the ability to "track" other Rino users. We purchased them in a bundle pack that included the Metroguide and the US TOPO maps both by MapSource. We attach them to our dirt bikes when we ride - that way we can keep track of each other and where we are. We don't have a lap-top, so we load the software for the places we are going before we leave.

The software that we have so far has been perfect - very easy to pick the area you are going to be in and easy to load. It also have some other features that are nifty as well, like downloading your "tracks" and location markers so they are saved on your computer for your next time out.

On the laptop - my friend just purchased two laptops from Dell for her college bound children for $400 a peice - might want to check them out.

Good luck with your choice!

Shannon


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## Herbicidal (Aug 29, 2003)

GoVols - I do have the MapSource topo maps on CD that I can load onto my E-trex. As I get older the screen gets smaller.









Zymurgist - sounds like you have the setup I'm considering. A buddy of mine said I might look into getting a blue tooth GPS (hocky puck style) and go wireless between the GPS device and the laptop (setup accordingly) to minimize wires in the cab. I have a Delorme map book for California and Oregon, I'll have to give their software a look see. My buddy also showed me this web site for mounting hardware. I have a nice wide, flat area on top of my transmission tunnel between the front seats that a laptop and it's mount could go.

Map Guy - thanks for the info and the link. Yup, I won't rely on just electronics alone.









LarryTheOutback, N70Q and Rubrhammer - thank you for your input too.

Lmbevard - point taken. I've searched Craigslist in my area and found some in that range, but...who knows, right?

OregonCampin - thanks for your suggestions! I'll check Dell.

This is the software the same buddy uses on his laptop in his truck. He has a drop down touchscreen that supports this software. It's really slick. Lot's of options out there, just need to narrow it down and do it!


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## Herbicidal (Aug 29, 2003)

As an update, I ended up buying the least expensive laptop that Best Buy sells. Here's a link. It's nothing fancy but should do just fine for my needs. I was surprised to see that just now the price is $100 more than I paid for it last week!







I bought it for $399. Once in awhile I get lucky.







Then I bought a 400 watt power converter that plugs into one of my trucks 'power ports'. It has two plugs. I also picked up a 9-pin serial to USB adapter since my Garmin GPS uses a serial port and the laptop only has USB. So other than a fancy laptop-in-cab-mounting-system (hopefully to follow later this year), the hardware is ready to go! In the meantime, I'm going carve up some soft foam block for the laptop to sit on over the transmission tunnel. Oh yeah, I've got the wireless up and working so if I'm on the road, I just need a WiFi hot spot and I can hit the internet for whatever.

For the software, after reading a bunch of reviews, checking into what you good folks suggested and conducting my own research, I placed my order for the DeLorme Street Atlas USA 2008 (released yesterday!!!) and their Topo USA 6.0 *West* Region. For almost exactly the same price as OZIExplorer. Now I will have the best of both street maps and topo maps. I have two of the DeLorme Gazetteers, one for Oregon and the other for California and I really like those map books, so I have fairly high expectations of the software. We'll see!

I can't wait for the package to arrive so I can go navigate somewhere!


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Are you 4-wheeling as in hills and rocks or as in backcountry trail riding? I would be concerned about the fragility of a laptop if you're going at pretty rough terrain.

The other thing to note is that aftermarket power bricks come with interchangeable cables to plug into either 110 or the cigarette lighter. Targus I know makes a line with tips you change out on the device side, so it can be used with different devices or when you upgrade the laptop in the future. http://www.targus.com/us/accessories_power_adapters.asp

Be careful with just using a cheap inverter because they don't provide very "clean" power. I don't have specific knowledge of it being a problem with a laptop (since it's using a power brick anyway), but in general they should be avoided for electronic devices.


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## Herbicidal (Aug 29, 2003)

BoaterDan - As far as 4-wheeling, at times, yes the trails are pretty rough. If the trail looks real bad, I can always shut the laptop down. I also plan on making a foam 'cradle' to hold the laptop to reduce vibrations, etc. I'm thinking that since it will be down low over the tranny tunnel, centered in the truck and sitting in foam, it should be OK.

Thanks for the info/concern about the inverters. I'll post back here once I've given the whole system a test run. Most likely it will be how the street software performs first as I currently do not have any off-road plans for the near future.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Ok. One thing for other interested parties reading this.

A company named Mio makes a auto GPS mapping solution that's $200 at Circuit City. It has a lot of features for the money - more than the big name competition products in the sub-$300 range.

If you're considering an auto GPS check it out.


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## Zymurgist (Apr 2, 2007)

Herbicidal said:


> BoaterDan - As far as 4-wheeling, at times, yes the trails are pretty rough. If the trail looks real bad, I can always shut the laptop down. I also plan on making a foam 'cradle' to hold the laptop to reduce vibrations, etc. I'm thinking that since it will be down low over the tranny tunnel, centered in the truck and sitting in foam, it should be OK.
> 
> Thanks for the info/concern about the inverters. I'll post back here once I've given the whole system a test run. Most likely it will be how the street software performs first as I currently do not have any off-road plans for the near future.


If you use foam make sure you don't block any of the cooling ports for the laptop. maybe a plywood foam plywood sandwich?


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## Drac (Apr 26, 2007)

A couple years ago I spent an unreasonable amount of time on this same problem







. I have some picture of my solution: Truckputer

The LCD touchscreen is mounted to a base I made that strandles the "hump" in the truck (a 2000 Tundra). It fits very snug and has never moved around (although I don't do offroading in the truck). The case I made so that it would be very portable and serve and a general PC if need be. It's not powerfull by todays standards but it will do anything I want short of gaming. The protability is nice, especially now that I can move it into the camper. That way it can server as my TV/Jukebox/DVD player/web browser/whatever once I install an LCD monitor in the OB. As far as the software on it, I run Routis, but there may verywell be better stuff out there now. I liked it becuase it had better backroad data than anything else out at the time. I have a "hockeypuck" GPS receiver with a magnetic base which works well. I also have a magnetic base wireless antenna for internet access. I mostly use the system for GPS in the truck but it has my music collection on it, and I can store a few movies on the hard drive as well for the kids (or take DVDs along).

All this being said, you could do basically the same thing with the laptop (except the touch screen). Either mount it carefully, or if you really want to, get a small touch screen and put the laptop in the back floorboard. Lastly, as has been mentioned, I would be concerned about using a cheap inverter on a PC. A true sine wave inverter would work fine (and probably cost a lot more) but I wouldn't use any tranformer based electronics on a cheap inverter. You could very easily fry the power brick or the laptop itself. I can go into the technical reasons if you really want me to but I'm an electrical engineer and personally, I wouldn't do it. It might be ok, but its just as likely to roast your electronics.


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## dougdogs (Jul 31, 2004)

Herbicidal said:


> BoaterDan - As far as 4-wheeling, at times, yes the trails are pretty rough. If the trail looks real bad, I can always shut the laptop down. I also plan on making a foam 'cradle' to hold the laptop to reduce vibrations, etc. I'm thinking that since it will be down low over the tranny tunnel, centered in the truck and sitting in foam, it should be OK.
> 
> Thanks for the info/concern about the inverters. I'll post back here once I've given the whole system a test run. Most likely it will be how the street software performs first as I currently do not have any off-road plans for the near future.


A couple of weeks ago, I installed a Ram Mount into my truck.

http://www.ram-mount.com/

Took about 5-10 minutes to install. We use our laptop, with delorme and USB gps. Our traveling laptop also has wireless so you never know when/where you can pick up a hotspot.


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## Drac (Apr 26, 2007)

For offroad I just use a Garmin Rino, that thing continues to impress me by how well the software on it works, mostly how well they integrated the radio aspect of it. To really take advantage of that though, you need to be with other people that have them.


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## Herbicidal (Aug 29, 2003)

Drac said:


> A couple of weeks ago, I installed a Ram Mount into my truck.
> 
> http://www.ram-mount.com/
> 
> Took about 5-10 minutes to install. We use our laptop, with delorme and USB gps. Our traveling laptop also has wireless so you never know when/where you can pick up a hotspot.


That is exactly what I would like to do in the future. How do you like that combo so far? Will the Ram mount rotate over to the passenger side for them to use? I have the latest DeLorme maps for my laptop (it has wireless too) on order. Hopefully I'll get them next week.


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## Drac (Apr 26, 2007)

The description specifically says that it works with cell phones and laptops, so from that it seems like it would be safe. I read up on this some more, and it seems like most of the AC-DC converters being made now will work fine with "dirty" power coming from a square ware inverter. This site has a nice description of it all RV Inverters


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## dougdogs (Jul 31, 2004)

Herbicidal said:


> A couple of weeks ago, I installed a Ram Mount into my truck.
> 
> http://www.ram-mount.com/
> 
> Took about 5-10 minutes to install. We use our laptop, with delorme and USB gps. Our traveling laptop also has wireless so you never know when/where you can pick up a hotspot.


That is exactly what I would like to do in the future. How do you like that combo so far? Will the Ram mount rotate over to the passenger side for them to use? I have the latest DeLorme maps for my laptop (it has wireless too) on order. Hopefully I'll get them next week.
[/quote]

I actually mounted it on the passenger side, but it rotates easily over to my side for me to use the laptop. Works great so far. I ordered the quick disconnect, but it makes everything too shaky, so I am going to remove it. don't bother with the quick disconnect, the top piece comes of very easy to hide the mount and your laptop.

Check your laptop power supply to see how many watts it needs. 400 might be too small. We bought a power supply for our laptop that just plugs into the cigarette lighter (actually we have it wire to one of the upfitter switches that Ford provided)


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## Herbicidal (Aug 29, 2003)

Thanks guys! Regarding the laptop and power, from the manufacturers web site all I can find is a couple of things:

*** Power Supply: 65 Watt AC-DC Adapter.
*** Utilizing the revolutionary VIA C7Â® -M processor, the latest StepNote provides users with ultra-low power consumption, advanced security features and 1.5GHz performance at a mere 12W peak power.

Based upon those numbers, I think I should be fine. In fact, it looks like I would even have enough power to get these for my wife!







Especially while traveling in the truck. She get's cold real easy.


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## Drac (Apr 26, 2007)

Herbicidal said:


> Thanks guys! Regarding the laptop and power, from the manufacturers web site all I can find is a couple of things:
> 
> *** Power Supply: 65 Watt AC-DC Adapter.
> *** Utilizing the revolutionary VIA C7Â® -M processor, the latest StepNote provides users with ultra-low power consumption, advanced security features and 1.5GHz performance at a mere 12W peak power.
> ...


Yeah VIA processors use very little power, that's what's in the little PC I built as well (older generation but..). The whole system only uses around 60W when I peg the CPU utilization.


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## Herbicidal (Aug 29, 2003)

Question â€" the system requirements for DeLormeâ€™s Street Atlas 2008 on Windows *Vista* are 512 megs of RAM, on Windows *XP* it says 256 megs recommended. I could buy an additional 512 megs of RAM from www.crucial.com for $25.99 or 1 gig for $43.99.

The new laptop I bought is very low end (and I knew that going in on the deal) and came with 512 megs running Windows Vista. Thoughts on running XP on this laptop instead? Does anyone know if Vista is that much more of a hog then XP? Just by those numbers above it seems that it is.

Thanks for your comments! I just don't want my system to be a total slug.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Herbicidal said:


> The new laptop I bought is very low end (and I knew that going in on the deal) and came with 512 megs running Windows Vista. Thoughts on running XP on this laptop instead? Does anyone know if Vista is that much more of a hog then XP?


Yes yes YES. Not only does Vista take more to even be functional, but it takes a pretty drastic upgrade in hardware to keep it from seeming like a complete dog compared to your old system.

(I'm in IT by the way.) A couple of our guys have it loaded at home or here and nobody has much good to say about it. I'd avoid Vista for now. BTW, for a quick check, one of them changed a setting which basically made Vista look like XP (none of the snazzy 3D stuff) and it was a drastic performance improvement.

I'm glad to hear the laptop bricks can handle dirty power these days. That makes it a lot easier - just make sure you have enough watts.


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## Herbicidal (Aug 29, 2003)

BoaterDan said:


> BTW, for a quick check, one of them changed a setting which basically made Vista look like XP (none of the snazzy 3D stuff) and it was a drastic performance improvement.


Thanks for the comments BoaterDan. Would you mind checking to see what that setting might be and where it is in Vista so I can do the same thing? At least as a test...


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## tripphammer (Oct 3, 2006)

OziExplorer is OK, but I much prefer ExpertGPS (http://www.expertgps.com/). A fully functional trial (31-days) version is available for download for free. I prefer it because it allows the download of both topo and aerial photos. Thus I am able to see actual ground cover on the photos. If I am going somewhere, I just make sure that I download the photos and topos for the areas and routes (all of Montana takes up only 2Gb) and then, if I choose, and can watch it real time as I travel down the road. ExpertGPS can also be used to swap waypoints and routes between dissimilar GPS brands. I helped Dan Foster with enhancements to the product for 10 years (up until last year).

I currently own 23 GPS software packages (all that have been mentioned here) and 7 GPS units. One of the problems with Mapsource is that the Mapsource folks got lazy when the got a copy of the mapset from the USGS and so they left the Montana water well data in the dataset. This is both for all topo versions and even the city and streets versions. The only way to get rid of it is to disable the detail... but then you lose all the street, river and other names. When I brought this to their attention they simple act like they don't care. Sure wish they would get a whole bunch of e-mails complaining.







Maybe that would help







.

Try out the ExpertGPS. The single user cost is $60 and a "family" (can be installed on several computers in the family) version is $75.

Currently my laptop is down and is getting fixed. When my new one gets here, the old one will be turned into one that is primarily contains all of my GPS and camping data. Whooo Hoooo, can hardly wait. The new Dell Latitude D830, with all of the bells and whistle is to be delivered on the 14th of June.

I have taught classes on GPS's and ExpertGPS for the past 10 years. I also was a beta tester for the largest GPS vendor for about 8 years (until flyfishing became a competing interest). So if you have any specific questions that I can help with, let me know.

Take Care,
Tripp


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

I use a Compaq with 1Gb of RAM and DeLorme Topo USA 6.0. I have an adapter for the 12v cig lighter. The computer has been sitting between me an DW for past 18,000 miles. Works great. I used their custom key function to make the F keys correspond to what I wanted (zoom in, zoom out, center on gps, start gps, etc).


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## Herbicidal (Aug 29, 2003)

TrippHammer -thanks for all your info and offer of assistance. I'll check out the expertgps web site. I'm a rank beginner compared to your resume. I have purchased and received Deloreme Street Atlas USA 2008 and Topo USA (West region). I do have a 30 trial period if I'm really unhappy with it.

Vdub - sounds very comparable to my plans. Glad to hear it's working for you.









I also ditched Windows Vista and installed Windows XP on the new laptop and what a world of difference! As an example, once Vista was fully up and running and I initiated a restart, it would take 6 minutes before I could use it again. On XP, about 1 minute and 10 seconds. I am MUCH happier with the performance of this low-end laptop now.







I'll get all the software loaded and see how she does. I'm still in the process of patching XP, that's almost a 1/2 day process by itself!







I found that I can get an additional gig of RAM for it from www.crucial.com for about $48 so if the maps load slowly, I'll probably do that.

A longer term goal is to get one of those laptop mounts from www.ram-mount.com. Then I will be set!


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