# Fulltimer Winterizing



## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Thought I would share what we have done to winterize our trailer for living through the winter here in Wyoming. I am fulltiming in our trailer and my family joins me on occasion for 2 weeks or so at a time. After they finish this school semester, they will join me full time starting in December. When they are here, there are 6 of us living in the 5'er. We are living on a Bison Ranch that has an RV park, South of Cheyenne, WY. I have learned quite a bit in regards to winterizing a trailer to survive a winter in this climate but big kudos goes out to Carey who gave me some specific ideas that he had seen done on trailers in Montana. One thing that made it easier for us is that we bought a "4 Season" trailer. Don't think for a minute that a 4 season trailer eliminates what one has to do to get a camper to survive the winter (while keeping occupants comfortable) but it does shorten the list. As I talked to locals and learned, I arrived at what I finally did. I still might have to do additional items but I am prepared to do so and am setup to accommodate those items as required. Something to bear in mind is that here in Cheyenne, I will have wind to deal with along with the cold, hence the frame for the EPS boards.

What I originally thought I would do:

1. Buy plywood skirting. 
2. Cover inside of skirting with reflective heat barrier.
3. Cover reflective heat barrier in #2 with housing insulation (fiberglass).
4. Set up skirting around entire rig and slide outs. Seal skirting with great stuff foam sealant. Seal plywood to camper with foam strip insulation.
5. Buy a couple ceramic heaters and strategically place them under the rig. Turn on at 10 degrees and run until it gets over 10.
6. Wrap water line and spigot with heat tape and insulate heavily.
7. Get sewer setup right (short, straight shot to dump).
8. Buy a couple safe heaters to run inside rig. Set them to come on at 65.
9. Set furnace to come on at 55.
10. Get setup with a big propane bottle and get setup on a route so it is filled every week ($$$$).
11. Dehumidifier...
12. Might have to put reflective barrier over windows on the inside of the rig.

What I have done after swapping from a 3 season to a 4 season rig,talking to Carey, doing some research and talking to locals:
1. Buy a heated water hose. Insulate hose and tape it, leaving integrated thermostat exposed. Insulate all the way to where it enters the trailer underneath.
2. Build hard line sewer pipe/fittings. Build connection, straight shot to dump.
3. Buy 2x4's, build a frame on the ground that follows outside edges of trailer and slides.
4. Buy 1" EPS Foam boards with reflective siding.
5. Buy 3" and 2" rolls of aluminum tape.
6. Build skirt with foam boards, taping well to trailer. Skirt area between slides with a slope to allow snow and ice to melt and run off. Brace sloped foam board from underneath.
7. Screw foam boards to frame using large fender washers to hold the boards to the frame.
8. Fill gaps from inside with Great Stuff.
9. Fill gaps between board and ground with wood shims, cover shims and other such gaps with dirt (not shown in pictures).
10. Strategically position ceramic heaters in trailer, fiddling with settings to allow furnace to come on often enough to keep underbelly from freezing. These heaters are all the kind that shut off if knocked over (we have 4 kids between 1 and 10).

What I am prepared to do in the event the above isn't enough:
1. Buy 2-3 heat lamps with bases to set them on. Strategically place under trailer.
2. Run extension cord through skirting, sealing hole well. Connect heat lamps to extension cord, plugged into thermostatically controlled outlet I already have on our electric connection that I use for the block heater on my truck (comes on at 35, 3 outlets).
3. Wrap short run of sewer pipe that is exposed outside of skirting with fiberglass insulation. Tape well. Build "igloo" out of left over foam board to cover insulated sewer pipe. I don't think I will have to wrap it with heat tape but those farther North do.

Stuff I have heard about others doing...
1. My trailer has a good design for keeping the underbelly warm so I don't think I am far enough North to have to do this but some have to...open up underbelly to basement storage. Carefully and cautiously set up a ceramic heater to blow into the underbelly and plug it into a thermostatically controlled outlet.
2. Have read that some folks have elaborate thermometer setups to monitor outdoor temps, temps under trailer (but inside skirting), temps in basement, temps in cabinets and inside temps.
3. Depending on your trailer...talked to a guy who wrapped his tanks in heat tape. He said "I only froze up a couple times after that!!!". Uhh...yeah he had a Layton at that point. He rolls in an OR Mesa Ridge now.
4. Some pour RV antifreeze in their tanks. In more extreme cases, you don't leave your valves open, you dump, let it shoot out then quickly close it. None of that "let it trickle out until you are sure it is empty" action.

By no means should you consider this a complete list. Another way to look at it that if all fails, buy more propane. That is what one guy told me he does who also works at an RV dealership. He just kinda laughed it off and shrugged. I think he has a 200lb tank outside his rig and is setup on a route with the local propane company. My trailer has 80lb of propane onboard and the park here fills bottles. I might buy a couple extra 20lb bottles to have on hand in an emergency but already our propane usage has dropped substantially with what we have done thus far. Again, in the pictures below, gaps between frame/boards and the ground have now been filled with wood shims and covered with dirt. Pics were taken prior to that being done. At any rate, I hope this helps someone who might be considering fulltiming in a cold environment!

Curtis










































Between Slides...









Water hose entering trailer









Steps...set this up so that I could easily remove the lower panel and gain access to the underside of the trailer as needed

















Exposed portion of sewer line


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

Looks like you've done a good job. I've got a question, Do the ESP boards you used have reflective covering on both sides? I'd think having radient reflection inside where the heat is would help.

Good luck this winter., Glenn


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## Erik K (Aug 28, 2013)

Very nicely done on the winterizing of the underside. My inlaws lived in their camper this past winter after Hurricane Sandy nearly destroyed their house. The insurance company paid someone to come out and do the same thing to their camper as you did with your Open Range, but I must say, yours looks a LOT more professional than what they did for my inlaws.

What floorplan do you have with your OpenRange? My wife and I were looking at the 427 for after we buy a new truck. Beautiful campers!


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

GlenninTexas said:


> Looks like you've done a good job. I've got a question, Do the ESP boards you used have reflective covering on both sides? I'd think having radient reflection inside where the heat is would help.
> 
> Good luck this winter., Glenn


Glenn - good to hear from you. It sure has been a while! You might be right on how the boards are faced, I personally don't know. This is how I was told it was done by Carey who has seen many rigs done in this fashion so I just followed directions









Curtis


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Erik K said:


> Very nicely done on the winterizing of the underside. My inlaws lived in their camper this past winter after Hurricane Sandy nearly destroyed their house. The insurance company paid someone to come out and do the same thing to their camper as you did with your Open Range, but I must say, yours looks a LOT more professional than what they did for my inlaws.
> 
> What floorplan do you have with your OpenRange? My wife and I were looking at the 427 for after we buy a new truck. Beautiful campers!


Our OR is the 367BHS. It is about as big a rig as I want to hang off the back of my '07.5 Ram. The OR is certainly far superior to what we had before, no doubt about it. I am more impressed now having lived in it for a couple of months than I was when I bought it. I have no worries about fulltiming in it. It tows very nicely as well. I was deciding between Montana's and OR's for the 4 season capability and the OR easily won as there are few bunk models in the Montana lines and none that were similar to the 367. The larger floorplans would be nice but I just don't have enough truck for me to feel comfortable towing something like that. The 367 isn't obscenely long (relatively speaking!) but has great interior space and you really come to appreciate that extra width that the OR's have when you have 2 adults and 4 kids in it! We are OR fans now!

Curtis


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

robertized said:


> Good job it looks well thought out, I only have one question, is the portion of the exposed metal frame behind the step insulated on the inside? If not this would be the only place that might need some insulation. Good Luck.


Yes - good point! The primary purpose of the skirt is to keep wind out from under the rig. Second is to provide some minimal insulation (which EPS does but OSB does not...if you are going to skirt it might as well do it with a material that gives some insulation value!). That small area of expose frame does the first but not the second. I have some extra board and might cut a piece to fit and prop some up in front of the frame right there.

Curtis


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

robertized said:


> Curtis I checked through your list to make sure you didn't list this already and you did say you had more to do, so here is my question. Do you have some kind of support for the trailer in the area of the axels or access to the tires to keep the tires inflated as they will lose pressure over time? A loss of tire pressure may allow for some movement and cause a problem with the skirting. Always trying to help and Good Luck.


Robert, thanks for the thought. I appreciate input as I am a real newbie to this fulltimer thing, not to mention adding in the environment I live in. My OR came with JT StrongArm stabilizers, front and rear and they do a great job of keeping the trailer stable. I do not need a kingpin stabilizer with them. Regarding the tires, they are Nitro filled so I should not have to add air. As for access to the tires, yes, the skirt does have a panel just below the steps that I can remove to get under the trailer in the event I need to perform some maintenance. Additional suggestions are welcome!

Curtis


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## Sweathog62 (Jul 28, 2005)

Very very nice pics and it is good that someone is trying what I did back in the winter of 2005 in Oklahoma. Our freezing temps would not last, but wow it was sure cold. Grab some electric blankets as the mattress coils tend to send the cold up and the blankets will help.

Also, some people have enclosed the whole RV in styrofoam and then wrapping it in shrink wrap. Holes being left open for critical services. I never heard how it worked but the guys doing it charged a fortune.

I froze up twice, and then went on and winterized using electric at night with propane backup. Showers were cold at the rv park but I survived.

Best of luck. Please keep us posted on your outcome.

Brad


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Couple of quick updates. The strong Wyoming winds kept blowing out the removable panel under the stairs. I wasn't exactly sure how it was happening so I did a thorough walk-around of the skirting this weekend. I happened to be looking at the stair frame where it mounts to the trailer and found 4 gaps where air could blow in and get under the skirt. There are gaps between the frame of the stairs and the trailer frame. I surmised that one possible contributing factor was that air was pressurizing the underside of the trailer from the strong gusts we get and it was blowing the panel out from the inside.

So, I cut four lengths of EPS foam board and carefully slid them down into each gap, one at a time. I them pulled each side back to the center so that the two butted up against each other and taped them together. The 1" wide EPS board fit the gaps just about perfect as well. I got a bit lucky there. I then used a couple of wood shims beween the removable panel and the adjacent EPS boards to wedge it in tight (and they filled a bit of a gap that was there as well).




























-CC


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Update...

Well it hit 6f last night. When I went outside to unplug the block heater on my truck and start it to get it warmed up to head to work, it was 8f. Nice and toasty inside the OR. We did have to turn up the portable ceramic heaters as the cold front moved through last night but we were all kept warm. Frost / ice had formed on some inside windows and my wife was blotting it dry as it melted in some spots. It is currently 10f. Furnace seems to be coming on about every 20-30 minutes or so. That is about where I want it. Wife said that the guy one site over from us was out this am poking around at his hot water heater. Uhh...yeah that would be awful. Hope he got it figured out. That hot shower I had this morning was great!

Items to do:
1. Repair aluminum foil weather tape where the 65mph Wyoming wind we had a couple of days ago has blown it loose.
2. Take care of refrigerator vents.
3. Put sand around base of foam boards to ensure seal. Weekend project for kids!
4. Improve fit and seal around removable panel (for accessing the underside of the 5'er) I have underneath steps. 
5. Put silicone bead on inside refrigerator weather seal. The seal doesn't seal tightly against the cabinet it is mounted in. Not a big deal but when the wind is howling and it is 10f, wife noticed cold air coming in.

-CC


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Well here we go. Arctic air is hitting and the local news said it might get down to -15 tomorrow night. Wind has been bad the last couple of days. WyDOT had I-25 closed down to vehicles with light trailers from the Colorado State Line up to Wheatland. We are bunkered up with food, clothing and fuel. One side of trailer's propane tanks are full. Other side has one full and one almost empty. I am going to top that one off in a couple of hours when I go home for lunch. The main issue we are dealing with now is condensation in and around the bedroom slide. Last time it got real cold, we discovered an ice rink in the "laundry room" (w/d prep area right beside the bed in the slide). We now roll up and place towels beneath the windows where condensation occurs. I have considered a dehumidifier. Also have considered trying to take left over foam board and make a box to go around the edges of that slide. That would be difficult to do as I would have to get a ladder and put it in the bed of my truck to get up that high to get the "box" taped up and secured to that slide. Also, I am not sure how much that would gain us. I guess I am going to have to see how bad it gets to determine if it will be worth it or not. I got items 1-4 done in the list above. 5 is still outstanding...just forgot to pick up a tube of silicone when I was at Home Depot the other day. I'll get one today for sure. Wife was talking about the cold air coming in from one side of the fridge last night.

_1. Repair aluminum foil weather tape where the 65mph Wyoming wind we had a couple of days ago has blown it loose. Done!
2. Take care of refrigerator vents. Done!
3. Put sand around base of foam boards to ensure seal. Weekend project for kids! Done! Wind blew some of it away lol.
4. Improve fit and seal around removable panel (for accessing the underside of the 5'er) I have underneath steps. Done!_
5. Put silicone bead on inside refrigerator weather seal. The seal doesn't seal tightly against the cabinet it is mounted in. Not a big deal but when the wind is howling and it is 10f, wife noticed cold air coming in. Not done - need to stop at Home Depot on the way home.

-CC


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## rodroc (Dec 3, 2013)

This looks like a very professional job. The RV looks fantastic and I am sure you will spend a very nice Winter in it. Thanks for sharing these pictures with us, they gave me some ideas for a small project that I am building.

Regards
Rod
Charlotte Water Heater


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

Good luck Curtis, looks like you've done everything possible to stay warm and keep things from freezing. I'm interested in finding out how the OR four season heated underbelly does in real cold weather, so keep the updates coming.

Regards, Glenn


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Update from cold Cheyenne. We have gone through 5 days of sub-freezing temps here including two nights where the low was around -15. Currently, it is -1. We bumped up the space heaters accordingly and have generally stayed warm. Our 5yr old has had to put on extra blankets as her bunk is in the rear bunkroom slide on the top and that side of the trailer is North facing. Her bunk has become overly chilly (for her) at nights. We covered her window with one of the cushions from the dinette booth below her bunk to help out as well. We are very fortunate that we have had no major problems. We did buy her a new, warmer sleeping bag from Cabelas tonight though. She sure is happy about that!!!

While we have had a problem that we will have to deal with soon, it isn't something like what our neighbors have experienced. The guy two spots down in the Sandpiper had his water line freeze and break. He was using a regular line wrapped with heat tape which he then insulated and taped. The only difference I can think of as to why mine did not freeze is that his water hose was laying exposed on the ground, all of it. My line's extra length is back up under my skirting. I just have the very minimum length needed to get from the spigot to the skirting exposed. I also used a Pirit heated hose. I suppose it is possible that somehow he lost power to his heat tape such as if the thermostat on the line quit working. Felt bad for the guy, he was out in the dark having to rig up another line when it was around -5.

I also saw a guys' trailer way over by the trash cans who had a tank (or plumbing of some sort) burst and some "liquid" was pouring out under his rig. He hadn't skirted at all and instead opted to put a couple lights up under his trailer. Didn't work out to well for him and I am glad he is far away from me! A few other folks have had some problems as well - the guy in the big Avalanche has had his sewer line freeze and burst twice. He has now rigged up a hard line. A few others have just given up and left altogether. My neighbor to the North was in an OR Roamer trailer that he didn't skirt at all. He was on top of his rig this morning chipping ice away from something...he and his wife pulled out about an hour later.

Much to my surprise we haven't burned an entire "side" of propane yet. I had figured that we would have emptied one side by now but the two 20lb bottles on the "driver" side of the 5'er that I have active are still providing some fuel. So at this point, I am very happy that we have not had problems that have plagued some other residents here on the Bison Ranch. On to the problem we do have!

The inside edges of some areas of our trailer are icing up. In particular, the edges of slide rooms on the North side of the trailer and windows / window frames. This is going to be a mess when it all starts to melt and some has today already as the temp rose to around 5 for the high. We have placed towels under most of the areas we could find and have been pre-emptively wiping up condensation or melted frost when we find it. A dehumidifer setup of some sort is in order. We have also strongly considered boxing in the bedroom slide with the EPS foam board, effectively making a "box" around it adding fiberglass insulation between the "box" and the top/bottom/sides of the slide to add some additional protection. The reason is that the "laundry room" next to the bed in that bed slide (where the w/d prep is) has really been frosting / icing up. If it warms up to 30 or so for a few days such that the ice and snow on top of the trailer melts and the trailer dries, I would very seriously consider boxing in this slide. I have to face the fact that January and February have yet to some. I have no idea how I would get up there to do it but I would figure something out. I might drag a picnic table over and use it as a ladder. Would be safer than an actual ladder. At any rate, here are some pics of the frost and icing problems as well a couple photos of what the snow and ice look like outside.























































-CC


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Thought I would add a couple side notes that might be of interest.

1. When it is -15 and the stomach bug rages through your family of 6 (kids aged 1, 4, 5 and 10), you can conveniently toss evil smelling soiled pajamas, clothing, bedding etc. etc. in trash bags and just drop them outside. The contents will freeze. Quickly. Wife then can easily take bags of frozen, soiled horrors err...linens and clothing to the laundromat while I am conveniently at work. I love my wife. And...why don't the mfg's of bunk "mattresses" make the covers removable? I am going to have to cut a slot on my 5yr olds bunk mattress cover and get the foam pad out so we can wash the cover. Maybe the foam too. As much as we tried to get it clean, it still smells (real bad) when you get close to it. I despise the stomach bug.

2. When it gets this cold, winter blend fuel ain't good enough by itself. It isn't. Really. Yes I gelled up. Yes I was told to put in fuel treatment and I thought that I was mr. smart guy because I bought fuel from a truck stop that was on winter blend and my truck would be fine. It wasn't fine. Power Service Diesel 9-1-1 and a hour of a space heater running under my Airdog (fuel filter / water separator / air removal) got my truck running again. I now have a bottle of Power Service "white" that I add some each time I add fuel to my tank. Best I can figure it, winter blend fuel alone works down to about 10f. Maybe 5f. Something like that.

And the lessons continue to be learned. Hopefully I can save someone else some pain by posting this stuff. I gotta hit the sack...gotta get up, cook breakfast and get us all to Church! We need to be there after this week!!!

-CC


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Sounds like an adventure for sure.


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

DW and I have made a blog to record our life experiences as a fulltiming family on the Wyoming Prairie. You can read about our challenges and what we are doing to deal with them there. We have recently built an insulated "box" for our bed slide. You can read how we did it and see pictures at...

Little 5th Wheel on the Prairie

-CC


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

You've obviously done a good job.

Regards, Glenn and Merry Christmas


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Our Fridge Froze. We were able to fix it and rig up a system based upon the suggestion and advice of local RV techs who work on this stuff regularly. I now know more about preventing RV refrigerators from freezing up than I ever thought I might. Wow...what an ordeal. Lost most of our food. Finally have it running again as of today and I have a system in place to keep it that way. Best tool to fix it if it happens to you? A Blow Dryer. Yeah...the one thing that I voted should never be put in a camper. Imagine that! You can read about it on our blog.

-CC


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Collinsfam_WY said:


> Our Fridge Froze. We were able to fix it and rig up a system based upon the suggestion and advice of local RV techs who work on this stuff regularly. I now know more about preventing RV refrigerators from freezing up than I ever thought I might. Wow...what an ordeal. Lost most of our food. Finally have it running again as of today and I have a system in place to keep it that way. Best tool to fix it if it happens to you? A Blow Dryer. Yeah...the one thing that I voted should never be put in a camper. Imagine that! You can read about it on our blog.
> 
> -CC


I can understand your fridge over heating in the cooling compartment due to cold weather outside (sensing it is colder then it actually is) but I can not see how that would contribute to the compartment freezing unless you lost the thermistor or the temperature control of the control board.


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Ammonia solution in the tubing below the canister gelled.

-CC


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Collinsfam_WY said:


> Ammonia solution in the tubing below the canister gelled.
> 
> -CC


I miss understood. I thought the food froze!


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## Snow (Sep 27, 2011)

I have read where some winter weekend warriors I know, have used hair dryers on the holding tank valves and even on their door locks once or twice ... If we were to ever get out for a winter weekend I think I'd be tossing a hairdryer into the trailer just cause ...


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