# Picking Time: '05 Lariat Psd Or '07 Classic Dmax



## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

2005 F-250 Lariat PSD with 13k miles! Loaded, very VERY nice truck. Previous owner wanted an '08 F-350 dually. Hard to believe, but this truck is 3 years old and has 13K miles on it. Owner pulled a 5'ver with it (when it wasn't sitting in the garage I suppose!). Downside it is one month away from being 3 years in service, so the 3/36 warranty is about to expire.

New 2007 Chevy 2500 HD w/ Duramax/Allison 6 speed. Interior is exactly like my current ride, and DW and kids complain of lack of room and uncomfortable seats on longer rides, so it would be a continuation of the same. But after driving both the Ford and Chevy, the Duramax/Allison is SWEET! I could not get over how quiet the DMax is, idling and at highway speeds. Heck, you can't even tell its a diesel on the highway. The PSD, while smooth and powerful, seemed sluggish compared to the DMax. That paddle shift option on the Allison is also pretty cool.

Here's the interesting part: they are essentially the same price! The Chevy I can get on the GMS schedule plus a $4k rebate that really drives down the price. The Ford looks like it has every option available except the sunroof, and the low mileage commands a higher price.

Which would you pick, the brand new Chevy with 5yr/60K bumper to bumper warranty, or the 3 year old, low mileage F-250? I love the Ford interior, but am a little spooked by some of the 6.0L quality issues out there and the lawsuit between Ford and Navistar.


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## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

I think the psd has a 100k drive train warranty. They are both good trucks, let us know what you do.


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

I'd pick the Dodge









Seriously though, between the Ford and Chevy, you could always purchase an extended warranty for the Ford if that's the one you really want. Comfort is key for long rides in the tv.

Then again, that Duramax/Allison combo may be too nice to pass up...

Was I any help?


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

Some of the 2003-2004 Ford 6.0L models were the ones with issues. 2005 and up have been strong. Good luck on your decsion. Can't go wrong with either one. Maybee you can get both!

I'll bet $1 that the wife & kids win the vote, because if there not happy - nobody is


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## Lazybonz(aka Bill) (Sep 23, 2006)

Hi
I think if you check, all new 2007 Chevy trucks comes standard with a 5 year/100,00 mile drivetrain warrenty. Mine did.
I have the 2007 Chevy Classic 2500 HD Duramax Allison combo...I love it!

Avoid the problems with Ford and International and go with the Chevy. That Allison tranny is pretty bulletproof too.

Bill


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

I'll sum it up real easy

D/A

nuf said

John


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

Is this really a question? Didn't you say the wife and kids are uncomfortable with the current Chevy?


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

You can't beat the D/A 6 speed.

I had two members here following me on Rt 50 empty. They were both driving Dodges and made the comment of what a heavy foot I had. When my wife told them that I wasn't speeding, they scratched their heads.

It was that wonderful 6 speed that made the Dodge want what I had.

Buy the Chevy.

FWIW,

Tim


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## Tiger02 (Apr 16, 2006)

GoVols,

D/A combination is a great drivetrain, but wrapped in a not so good package. Fords IMO have better truck bodies both interior and exterior with the International/TS combo sometimes lacking. Apparently that is fixed with the 08, but it will cost you.

The DMax will give you a better towing experience right off the lot. The 6.0 PSD can be modded to accomplish what you want to do as far as towing. I like to tinker with my Ford and the difference between stock and what I have now are night and day. If that is not your thing then I would get the DMax.

Both trucks should give you many years of service and if the owner of the 05 Ford won't come down on price, then I would again go with the DMax. Take care and good luck with your decision.

Vince


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## regsue814 (Apr 9, 2007)

For the price and the fact that the Ford has been broken in already by towing, I'd have to recommend the Ford. You'll save some money and you could easily purchase an extended warranty since the factory warranty has not yet expired.

Good luck with your decision!


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

GoVols,

It ain't even close my man. The new one since it has the warranty fully intact and you get to be the person who babies it through it's childhood.

Mike C


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## Chasn'Racin (Mar 12, 2007)

When I picked my truck (2006 GMC 2500 D/A) I went to as many RV dealers as I could and asked them what service trucks they drove. At least 80% had multiple brands and all said they liked the pulling ability of the GM the best. After getting mine, I agree. I drove the same truck in both the Ford and the GMC. If I wanted to ride in a log truck, I would buy a log truck(Ford). I bought the GMC for pulling and for comfort. Now before you Ford guys start throwing things...I traded a 14 year old Ford F150 with 180,000 in on it, so I know what the Fords are made of. 
After towing our 27RLS from MD to GA to TN back to MD, then MD to TN to IA, I love the Allison transmission. In towing mode in the mountains, there is NOTHING better. And the Duramax...well Nuf said...Go with the Chevy.
Ken


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

The PSD wins the beauty contest over the Chevy. It is a beautiful truck, and it is really hard to decide to go with it or the new Chevy. By the way, both the Ford and Chevy 3/4 tons ride much smoother than my Z71 1/2 ton truck! I knew it was a bouncy ride, but I didn't realize how bouncy until I drove the smoother riding 3/4 tons!

The Lariat is loaded with everything except a sunroof; the Chevy is a fairly base model LT1. And yes, the Chevy gets a nod for the full warranty.

here's a pic of the Ford:


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## HogFansInMo (Jun 11, 2006)

Duramax.
Not sure if i am that crazy with all the emission's junk on the 07's, but.....doesn't stop me from looking for a new 2007 K3500 DRW CC/AA


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## Rollrs45 (May 7, 2007)

Uhhhhh, just look at my signature and you'll know what I recommend.

Go w/ the D'Max!!!! If they don't like how the chev. rides, wait till they ride in the Ford.

In actuality, they both have they're pros and cons. The Ford is a beautiful truck, no doubt, but I have always been a GM type of guy. Good luck on your decision. You really can't go wrong with either...... as long as it's a diesel.

Mike


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

I think your decision was made when you stated the following:



> DW and kids complain of lack of room and uncomfortable seats on longer rides, so it would be a continuation of the same.


This is the exact reason why I cannot consider Chevy/GMC (unfortunately) when I go to look at new TV's in a couple years.

-CC


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

I, too, have considered which one to look for. For back seat room, you can't beat the Megacab. Then, the Ford. Then the Chevy/GMC. Last, the Dodge quad cab.

Mark


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## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

It's a personal decision, but I have the LT1 06 dmax and it has enough creature comforts. I would always go for a new over a 3 year old for the same price regardless just for the value of being 3 years newer.

If you can't live without all the options then you have answered your own question. I just turned 15K on my 06, picked up 1 more MPG arounf town and the same one towing.

Just came back from the shore and averaged 12 MPG driving 68-70 with AC and cruise on pulling my 10K SOB in 90+ temperatures, never complained


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

UPDATE & Observations:

I examined the door post stickers on both the F-250 and the 2500HD I am looking at for the vehicle's payload capacity with options. The Chevy beats the Ford by . . . . 1 pound!







The payload capacity is 2307 lbs on the Ford and 2308 lbs on the Chevy!

I also took a tape measure and measured the back seat leg room of both trucks with the front seat all the way back. The Ford had about 1 inch more. It must be an optical illusion; the Ford looks like it has more rear seat room, but the tape doesn't lie. I then put the front seat in a comfortable riding position and remeasured, but the result was about the same; maybe a smidge more on the Ford, but not much.

I have though, and Ford owners please don't take offense







, just about concluded that the Ford option is out. There is just too much negative stuff







on the web about the 6.0L's problems, both in forums and news press. The forums for the respective diesels are interesting though. This is by no means a scientific observation, but I notice there is much more negative dialogue







on the dieselstop forum about engine problems than what I see on the dieselplace (Duramax) forum. While the DMax forum has its share of complainers, more of the dialogue seems to be about modding and non-OEM performance







issues than the Ford site. Seems the 7.3L was Ford's best to date, with the jury still out on the new 6.4L.

Looks like I am down to a choice between a used Duramax or a new 07 Classic Duramax.


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

> I also took a tape measure and measured the back seat leg room of both trucks with the front seat all the way back. The Ford had about 1 inch more. It must be an optical illusion; the Ford looks like it has more rear seat room, but the tape doesn't lie. I then put the front seat in a comfortable riding position and remeasured, but the result was about the same; maybe a smidge more on the Ford, but not much.


I am so glad you did that. I have been a bit concerned about the leg room in the back seat of the Duramax. Now, if your measurements are corect (you swear they are, right?







), I can be more comfortable lokking at the GMs. Not that I will buy one any time soon, though.

Mark


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## kargorooOutbacker (Jan 8, 2007)

I got a 2007.5 Duramax LMM crew cab three weeks ago and we love it (DW, 2DS, and me).








The combination DMax/Allison is just to good to be trueâ€¦The first time pulling I canâ€™t hardly tell the camper was thereâ€¦








MPG is really good (20HYW-17City-12pulling with only 1200 miles) It supposed to get betterâ€¦.








Go for it


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

That was real good of you to measure. I nor my wife have no complaints about the seats infact I like them more then past trucks I have owned. I also didn't think the rear seat was small. That distinction goes to the ---- ah forget it.

If you looked at diesel place then the 04 and 05 DMax have had some trouble with overheating. Folks there adamantly complain that GM has dismissed them and haven't acknowledged the problem. Don't want to be perceived as wearing GM underwear but GM has put out a TSB on the steering shaft. Those shafts are in everything and costs way more money to fix then the overheating DMAX's.

With that in mind I believe that GM in some form is correct in that many of the overheating DMAX's have been modded and raced up the biggest hills in the country at full load in 100 degree temps. In summary there is a good aftermarket fix for those at about $1k and if the price is right then I myself wouldn't hesitate.


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

NJMikeC said:


> Don't want to be perceived as wearing GM underwear but GM has put out a TSB on the steering shaft. Those shafts are in everything and costs way more money to fix then the overheating DMAX's.


The steering shaft issue runs through all their trucks and the large SUVs. I have already had my 1500 in to "tighten up" the intermediate steering shaft, and now it seems to be working loose again. A full replacement is probably the next step before the warranty goes out. I was looking at a used 05 DMax and had a friend run a GMVIS report on the VIN number. It came back with -- guess what -- a steering shaft replacement as the only warranty claim on the vehicle!

Where do you get GM underwear?


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

I would go with the LBZ over the LMM. If you could find one, get the LLY. I found my 2006 LLY sitting on the back of a dealer lot. It had 5 miles on it.

Good Luck,

Tim


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

Highlander96 said:


> I would go with the LBZ over the LMM. If you could find one, get the LLY. I found my 2006 LLY sitting on the back of a dealer lot. It had 5 miles on it.
> 
> Good Luck,
> 
> Tim


I'm curious why you suggest LLY over the LBZ. LLYs are notorious for poor mileage from what I've read. Plus the changes found in the LBZ over the LLY:

* Cylinder block casting and machining changes strengthen the bottom of the cylinder bores to support increased horsepower and torque
* Upgraded main bearing material increases durability
* Revised piston design helps lower compression ratio to 16.8:1 from 17.5:1
* Piston pin bore diameter increased for increased strength
* Connecting rod â€œ I â€ section is thicker for increased strength
* Cylinder heads revised to accommodate lower compression and reduced cylinder firing pressure
* Maximum injection pressure increased from 23,000 psi to more than 26,000 psi
* Fuel delivered via higher-pressure pump, fuel rails, distribution lines and all-new, seven-hole fuel injectors
* Fuel injectors spray directly onto glow plugs, providing faster, better-quality starts and more complete cold-start combustion for reduced emissions
* Improved glow plugs heat up faster through an independent controller
* Revised variable-geometry turbocharger is aerodynamically more efficient to help deliver smooth and immediate response and lower emissions
* Air induction system re-tuned to enhance quietness
* EGR has larger cooler to bring more exhaust into the system
* First application of new, 32-bit E35 controller, which adjusts and compensates for the fuel flow to bolster efficiency and reduce emissions


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

OK, someone explain LLY, LMM, LBZ, etc.









Mark


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

mswalt said:


> OK, someone explain LLY, LMM, LBZ, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Different generations of the Duramax:

2001-2004 LB7, 1st Generation
2004.5-2005 LLY, 2nd Generation
2006-2007.5 LLY and LBZ, 3rd Generation
2007.5+ LMM, 4th Generation (this engine runs on ULSD only 15ppm sulfur content and lower)

A quick refernce is the badge on the front. The LB7's and LLY's had the "Duramax Diesel" badge with red letters. The LBZ had "Duramax/Allison" in Chrome, red and blue. The LMM has the badge up on the Hood vent.

Hope that helps!

Tim


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

Highlander96 said:


> OK, someone explain LLY, LMM, LBZ, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Different generations of the Duramax:

2001-2004 LB7, 1st Generation
2004.5-2005 LLY, 2nd Generation
2006-2007.5 LLY and LBZ, 3rd Generation
2007.5+ LMM, 4th Generation (this engine runs on ULSD only 15ppm sulfur content and lower)

A quick refernce is the badge on the front. The LB7's and LLY's had the "Duramax Diesel" badge with red letters. The LBZ had "Duramax/Allison" in Chrome, red and blue. The LMM has the badge up on the Hood vent.

Hope that helps!

Tim
[/quote]

The best way to id the actual motor is to look at the 8th digit in the VIN number.

Personally, I disagree on the LLY over LBZ or LMM issue. I will acknowledge that LLY 2006 models probably get the best fuel economy but the 2006 and pre January 1, 2007 LBZ motors in the 2006 and 2007 Classic have the most fuel flexability. These motors are designed to run on LSD and or ULSD fuel -this will be an issue for any one who travels outside of the US to Mexico or Canada. These motors have the benefit of the latest generation electronics without all the stuff like DPF's that are going to be maintenannce intensive.

Just my 2 cents on this little part of the discussion.... for what it is worth and it is not much









Map Guy


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

I believe that Tim was referring to the '06 LLY. It is exactly like the LBZ right down to the ECM. It just has different programming and hence reduced power and likely better economy. To understand that it is simple. GM put the newer motor out but didn't have the time to test it at both power levels. Rather then delay the motor they released it at reduced power levels hence the LLY.

I agree with him. 60 HP and 50 ft-lbs of torque although significant isn't actually required to pull our trailers. If your in the diesel game primarily for economy which the LLY is better at then go with it. Downside though is that you have slim to no chance of finding one. I also think even the earlier 04 to 05 LLY's beat the LBZ at fuel mileage.


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

This is starting to get a little off topic, but heck, I'm the one who started the post.

On the Dieselplace forum, there are polls posted for each engine generation. Granted they are not completely scientific and subject to boasting, you will see that the LBZ has a higher average economy than the LLY motors, according to users.

Also, I'm confused about the claim that there is no substantial difference between the LLY and LBZ. The changes in LBZ motors I posted came directly from a General Motors press release about the LBZ. Seems there is more in there than just programming.


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

Let's see.

I have a 2006 LLY. The 8th number in the VIN is a 2.

It will run on LSD and ULSD. I just walked in the door from a 235 mile round trip. My hand calculated mileage this afternoon was 21.36 mpg on the Highway. Prevish Gang's son was with me in the truck to verify.

I was so excited that I called Fire44 to tell him about it.

Take it for what it's worth. Everyone I know who has a LBZ does not get the mileage that my 2006 LLY (8th digit in the VIN is 2)gets.

Good luck in you search.

Tim


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Govols,

There have been around 100 mileage posts on the LBZ since I got on Dieselplace. They are about as scattered and mixed as the wind blowing leaves off the trees. There is just no rigor and no filtering at all of what is chipped and what isn't. The LLY's get better mileage then the LBZ you should just take that to the bank.

I have seen countless other posts saying that the '06 LLY is an LBZ w/different programming and that is from several GM techs who frequent that board. Can only tell you what I have seen on that board for a long time. Again though finding an '06 LLY that isn't used is almost impossible and if the owner traded it in already I would beware. Given the choice 99 out of 100 people would take the LBZ over the older LLY's especially since in '06 the Allison became a 6-speed rather then a 5 speed. As for the press releases look for the one announcing the '06 LLY. Bet it has the same mechanical attributes as the LBZ. If those guys are all wrong over there then they are all wrong but I wouldn't bet on it.


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## Chasn'Racin (Mar 12, 2007)

Bump...so what did you end up getting???


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## phaucker (Jul 23, 2007)

Well, heres my two cents...I just purchased a 2006 F350 6.0 PSD CC and I love it. The dealer let me take it home for a couple of days and I hooked up the tt and took it for a spin. I couldn't even tell the tt was behind me. I would go for the Ford...plus you wont take the 25% depreciation hit on the Ford.

Good Luck!


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