# Need Advice On Towing



## oreilly76 (Nov 4, 2005)

Hi!
As I have stated in a previous thread my DH and I are picking up our new to us 2002 23FBS this Friday.
We have no towing experience and would appreciate thoughts.
We are towing (for now) with a 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the v-8 engine. I have been doing a lot of reading on towing and I am still confused. Does my owners manual come with a lot of the info such as how to load our camper properly and making sure the tongue weight and load is correct?
Because I am totally confused on these issues.
What are the basics I need to now about trailer loads and how to correctly load it?
I do know we are at our limits with the TV (6500 or 6700 lbs GVWR, I can't remember right now and DH isn't home to ask). Our trailer has a GVWR of 5500lbs. Wheelbase does seem to be our biggest issue. I know we are pushing (over?) our limits on it and we will be upgrading the TV in the spring. For now we will do some local trips with the jeep.
We are getting a 1200lb hitch, dual cam sway, and brake controller installed at the dealers. I have no idea on which brands. After reading on this forum it seems Prodigy is the best brake controller and a Hensly? Is the Hensley the hitch or sway control? (I told you and I a newbie!)
I really need a book out there like "Towing a 23FBS with a Jeep GC for Dummies"!!

So if anyone can give me a little of the basics on loading the trailer and such I would greatly appreciate it. 
I worry because my DH subscribes to the BFI (Brute force and ignorance) theory~ and isn't one to ease into things....


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

No dumb questions at all, better to ask then find out the hard way









The outback is going to be quite a load for the jeep. The owner's manual should have information on towing weights etc. Probably none though on loading the trailer.

The main thing is to not have the tongue too light. Too light of a tongue can cause sway and you want to avoid that. If you load most items over the axles and toward the front, you will keep the tongue weight where it should be. Tongue weight should be 10-15% of the total weight of the trailer. So if it weighs 5300#, the tongue weight should be between 530 and 800#. That shouldn't be a problem as the those of us who have weighed our trailers have found the tongue weight to be in the 15% range. The best thing to do is to load the trailer and get your setup weighed to see what the exact weights are.

If you are planning short trips for now and are planning to upgrade the truck in the spring I think that's a good idea as you will be pushing your jeep to or beyond its limits.

I've found as well as many others here that the prodigy is by far one of the best brake controllers, easy to set up and it does a great job.

The Hensley is a hitch system that eliminates sway all together. It has sway control and weight distribution all in one package. Those who have one say they'll never tow with any other type of hitch. The drawback is the close to 3k price but you can't put a price on safety. The dual cam system your dealer is giving you is a good system as well. As long as it is set up right, it will do a good job at controlling sway.

I'm sure others here will be able to fill in the gaps here and help you out.

Mike


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## sircarryalot (Jun 23, 2005)

oreilly76 said:


> Hi!
> As I have stated in a previous thread my DH and I are picking up our new to us 2002 23FBS this Friday.
> We have no towing experience and would appreciate thoughts.
> We are towing (for now) with a 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the v-8 engine. I have been doing a lot of reading on towing and I am still confused. Does my owners manual come with a lot of the info such as how to load our camper properly and making sure the tongue weight and load is correct?
> ...


Hi, Sounds like you on on the path with your reseach. The best thing for you to is to make sure your jeep and trailer are level. I myself have an Equalizer Hitch and when the dealer set it up with my trailer the back end of my truck went down
3 3/4 inches and the front end went up 3/4 of an inch. The dealer said if you can believe that this was fine. So I e-mailed Equalizer Hitch myself and asked if this was fine. I got a two page reply. In a nutshell,measure front and rear bumper hieght before trailer goes on. After trailer is hooked up, remeasure. The hieghts will change. If you can get the two measurements within an inch of each other you are set up correct and more important you and your family are safe. As you can see with my set up there was a 3 inch differance after the trailer went on. This was corrected in my case with making changes to the hitch. My set up is within an 1/4 of an inch. If you look at the pics on this site you can clearly see the trucks back ends are down and the front ends are up and the trailers are not level with back ends up and the hitch end down. I call this "THE V" When this happens you have little or no sway control according to EQUALIZER. I once had the "V" but no more my truck and trailer are level. It takes time to make adjustments but well worth it. Also as you add more wieght to your trailer these hieghts should be checked often to make sure you stay level. I hope this helps you and good luck.

Mike


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## ee4308 (Aug 23, 2005)

Sandy and Mike,

Welcome to this great site and a vast storehouse of knowledge from these Outbackers. Not much experience here (yet), in loading and towing so I will leave the advice to the well qualified. For sure,any questions you ask will be answered with great advice. Happy Camping. sunny


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## azx33 (Aug 13, 2005)

The 23' OB is too much trailer for your 98 JGC ZJ. I tow a 05 21RS OB with my Jeep (WJ) and it does the job, but I would not want to tow anything larger. For your situation, I would stay off the big grades, especially the long drawn out ones. Also, make sure you have the tow package on your Jeep and an aux tranny cooler. I went with the equalizer hitch setup and have had no issues with trailer stability or sway, regardless of the towing conditions.


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## glennsteers (Apr 25, 2005)

Sandy & Mike,

As one of the newest Hensley converts, I have to put in my 2 cents for the Hensley. Having already tried the Reese Dual Cam w/WD (an awesome system), I cannot say enough about the Hensley's performance and "road feel" and Outbackers can still get $300 off the price by calling Sean Woodruff (VP of Hensley) at 800-410-6580 x100.

Prodigy is widely recognized as the best brake controller out there too.

As for packing your trailer, be careful as gear adds up! Before I took delivery I heard people saying, "Allow for around 1,000 lbs of gear." But I never believed it. When I took my trailer to the local dump to use their scales, I was surprised to find that I was OVER 1,000 lbs. Food, clothes, fluids, televisions, jacks, levelers, tools, flashlights, grills, etc...really add up!

When packing food, only pack things that you can reuse like peanut butter, syrup, plastic wraps (ok, that isn't food!)...stock up on perishables like bread, milk, cold cuts, meat, cheese at a grocery store on your way into camp or after you've made camp and unhitched. Why carry food around for miles? Try to avoid bringing flats of water or soda as they are REALLY heavy! We learned the hard way that we usually over buy which is fine at home, but not wise for trailering.

My DW usually stocks the wardrobes with the kid's and her clothes and may stow a bag of extras. After a few trips you learn what is necessary and what is frivolous. If you camp 3-4 times and you don't use something, leave it at home!

Here are a couple of things that you need to make sure you NEVER leave home:

1) Patience
2) Sense of humor
3) Ability to laugh at yourself

I've forgotten one or more of these on a few trips and had a miserable time!


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

1. Call your dealer and tell him that you must have a Prodigy.

2. When you tow with the jeep you need to make sure the jeep is as empty of anything you can. The GVWR of the Jeep is not very much t begin with -- and when you add fuel, personnel, supplies, and 800 tongue weight you easily exceed the safety limits of the jeep...

Now let me put my legal hat on for a second -- If you have a wreck or cause an accident for any reason -- or someone slams into you and its not your fault -- and you are 1 lb over GVWR you may face criminal misconduct charge and be responsible for the entire acident -- here in Texas, state and county officers routinely write tickets for TV that are towing TT over their limits.

Also your brakes on your Jeep Cherokee are designd to safely stop up to the GVWR -- so thus -- when you exceed the GVWR you are exceeding the safety limits of the trailer..

now let me put my shade tree mechanics hat on -- I can just imagine what your transmission is going to be feeling when you pull this thing...









Stay off he hills -- stay off crowded sudden stop roads -- an keep a constant eye on your transmission gauge (which i hope you have -- either that or a super-duper transmission cooler)...

sorry about being a wet towel on the matter -- but safety -- both yours and those around you far outweighs personal pleasure...

finally -- remember -- to get the hitch set up right takes time -- your dealers purpose is to get you straped on and out of there -- thee was a recent survey (I can't remember where i read it though) that stated over 90% of dealr installed hitches were not compliant with the manufacturers instructions ... SO -- be there when he installs it and if you get a WD hitch like REESE (which i like) then do the measurements yourself at the dealer BEFORE you sign the paperwork.....

Me personally -- i would get the trailer -- tow it home -- and wait until i could get a TV that SAFELY and LEGALLY can tow your TT...

i dont think we have lost an OUTBACKER yet -- although we have lost some trailers to acidents -- and want to keep you in the OUTBACK family as long as possible...


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

First off...Welcom to the site and CONGRATS on the new trailer!

I have to agree with what everyone is saying...you're Jeep just isn't going to be enough vehicle to properly tow the trailer.

Your signature show you have 2 young childern. Ask yourself how much you would pay to keep them safe?

I had a 2000 Ford Expedition and ended up buying a 2004 Suburban 2500 after all the great advise I recieved from these guys.


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## oreilly76 (Nov 4, 2005)

I appreciate all the advice.
Maybe we will look into getting a TV sooner than later. The only person that will be in the Jeep while towing (for now) will be DH. We will follow in my van. At least until we are both more comfortable towing and have a bigger tow rig.
We were going to tow it about 40 miles over Thanksgiving weekend, but maybe we will stick with the local campground (adjacent to dealer) and only tow it to the storage (less than 10 miles). We need a lot to learn just about our trailer and towing in general before we go far.
Our jeep also has heavier duty shocks, and lift kits among other mods due to off roading. I wouldn't even try to list them here. DH was going to take the bigger tires off (33's?, can't remember which) and put the more regular size on them this week before we towed.
Thanks for all the info!


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

glennsteers said:


> Sandy & Mike,
> 
> As one of the newest Hensley converts, I have to put in my 2 cents for the Hensley. Having already tried the Reese Dual Cam w/WD (an awesome system), I cannot say enough about the Hensley's performance and "road feel" and Outbackers can still get $300 off the price by calling Sean Woodruff (VP of Hensley) at 800-410-6580 x100.
> 
> ...


The never to leave at home list is excellent advice for daily living too. action 
Jan


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## Stacey (Apr 25, 2004)

Here's a good website for information on towing basics.

http://www.rvtowingtips.com/index.htm


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## Crawfish (Sep 14, 2005)

Mike and Sandy,

Welcome to the site and congrads on the new Outback.

I whole heartly agree with Ghosty. I am new at towing myself, and my TV is close to its limits also, but I have a long wheelbase, unlike the Jeep which is alot shorter wheelbase than mine. The TT tends to want to sway more with short wheelbases. Like Ghosty says, tow it home and then get a new TV.

"*Let's Go Camping*"

Crawfish


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## oreilly76 (Nov 4, 2005)

Thank you all for your advice!
I would still like some more info on specifically how to load the trailer and have the correct amount of tongue weight. How do you weigh your tongue weight?

We have decided to trade my beloved van and his beloved Jeep both in for a Suburban. We feel that it is a compromise of what we both want. He wants a big pick up. I want a more family friendly vehicle. So, now we will also only have one payment, seeing as to how our new TV will also be my DD. We thought hard and while the gas mileage is a consideration, we feel one car payment will make up for it.
Thanks!


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## campntn (Feb 20, 2005)

Sandy and Mike, welcome, pull up a chair by the fire and let's E-camp: action 
You impress me with each of your posts. Your first reply was to say your only gonna have DH in tv..good move. Your second says your gonna trade your tv for a sub, great move! (take DH out first.LOL).
The purpose of camping is to get away/have fun/travel/meet friends. Sorry to say, that I agree with all the other Outbackers: your present setup is not sufficient. If you don't have complete confidence in your setup, your camping experience will be all for naught. Our setup is comfortable to me. It's not what I want,(dualie). The tv does ok, it's gv is 7500. It has a hoss motor, V8 5.9 and can pull a lot in pounds. But I will feel better when we get a bigger wheelbase vehicle. With the hitch setup, it tows safely. 
Some others can give you more specifics about tongue weight. I just wanted to tell you that many points will just have to be OJT learning. Example: on your weight distribution, I know that when I put our EZ up in there, I put it over axle center. But I move other things around to keep the MOST weight on the tongue. But not all! Keep a lil in the rear. You'll find what works best. You may have to stop and readjust stuff in the back. You'll get a feel for how it tows.
You've made the best move you can make:trade up tv. But also, your other one is to go thru this forum string by string (split it with DH)and print off some of them you may need. Attn to this string I started, it's a culmination:
Outbackers Tech Tips
Have fun, enjoy the smell of the new camper and remember:
The vacation starts when you pull outta the driveway...relax.








Mark


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## drobe5150 (Jan 21, 2005)

sandy action

congrats on making the decision to go with a much better tv. you will most diffenately not regret this.
what are the specs on the suburban








year
engine
color

before you go pick up next friday, download the pdi checklist from this forum, it will help you understand your outback in more detail. take about 2-3 hours with the pdi, some folks have even video taped their pdi for future referance. after your pdi, tell the dealer you would like to take a towing test drive with them. ask them to give you some finer points in towing. 
also if you have a vacant lot or a large parking area in your neighborhood, go there and practice parking, esp backing up.

again congrats on your new tt & tv, go camping and enjoy sunny

darrel


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## oreilly76 (Nov 4, 2005)

I believe the one we are looking at right now is a 2001, 5.3L and burgundy. 
Great idea on a PDI checklist, I will do that. We had already planned on video taping!! I will do a search for the list to take!
Thanks!



drobe5150 said:


> sandy action
> 
> congrats on making the decision to go with a much better tv. you will most diffenately not regret this.
> what are the specs on the suburban
> ...


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

With the 5.3L engine, make sure the truck has at least 3.73:1 gears, or else you won't be happy with how it is towing. And don't forget the aux. transmission oil cooler. The 1500 series GM trucks come with the 4L60e transmission, which is not the best tranny for towing. The cooler you can keep it the better.

Tim


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

Mike & Sandy - Welcome

Congrats on your new Outback. Great choice with the burb...you will love it.

I was new to towing as well when we purchaced our TT. Couple suggestions that worked for me.

1 - Brake controller is set-up properly
2 - Hitch is set-up correctly
3 - Just take it slow and easy
4 - Take the corners a bit wider
5 - Find and empty parking lot and practice backing-up (the lines help keeping things straight,)
6 - You will find out that towing a TT isn't bad at all.
7 - Establish a routine (walk around for lights, tires, chains etc)
8 - Most of all have fun - Camping is great family fun

Thor


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Remember to have the dealer (Suburban) make sure they install the trailer brake fuse. Seems easy enough, but without it you won't get power back to the wiring harness.

Congrats again on the Outback AND the Suburban!!!

Did you get the 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton Suburban? We bought the 3/4 ton with a 6 litre engine and have ZERO problems pulling our 28RSS over the Oregon Mtn Ranges...and they are steep.


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Congrats on your new suburban!! Best wishes with your new toys









Mike


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