# I Don't Recommend This Trip At All



## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

So it's been a long couple of weeks here in the Champlain Islands!! On Wednesday March 3rd Stacey (DH), Frank (DS) and I got 2nd, 3rd, and 4th degree chemical burns from pouring concrete. If any of you have ever seen the little picture of the drop of "stuff" melting a hole in the hand on a bag of concrete, take it VERY seriously!! Frank has been in the hospital since Thursday the 4th! Stacey and I were able to be treated and released! Frank may be able to come home tomorrow, but midweek is looking more likely! I have 2nd and 3rd degree burns on my knees, Stacey has 2nd and 3rd degree burns on his hands, knees, shoulder, and butt (shh don't tell him I told you that part!)Frank has 2nd, 3rd and 4th degree burns on his hands, knees, shoulder, and stomach. He had skingrafts Monday on his knees, they seem to have taken very well!! He will have physical therapy for several weeks to several months depending on how they continue to heal!! We have poured concrete for 20 years and this is the first time we've seen anything like this. That is the reason I'm sharing this with you! I know we have alot of DIY'ers in the Outbackers community, and while we were in the cement for several hours our burns had begun almost immediately!! The physical pain of these burns is indescribable, and the emotional pain of knowing how much Stacey and Frank were hurting and that I couldn't make it better was worse. I'll add a link to an article that explains the chemical details of a cement/concrete burn, and strongly suggest that the next time you are working with concrete/cement that you wear protective clothing, and be very carefull! also have either some lemon juice or vinegar on hand to flush any areas that get burned. The acid in these reverses the alkaline so it stops burning. I am guessing this hurts like HE** as did the water and peroxide. We didn't know about the lemon/vinegar deal til after. At the ER we knew more about cement burns than the first docs we saw!! and even the doc who did know of it didn't know it could be this bad!! IF you get burned, flush immediatly with warm to cool running water for a half hour, and until you KNOW that the chemical has stopped burning (our ER had something like litmus paper to test with) DO NOT put any type of petroleum product on the effected area as it will trap the chemical and CONTINUE to burn!! cement burn specifics I will also include that our hospital has been SUPER about treating us as a family! allowing all 3 of us to be in the same ER room, seeing us together, and checking on Stacey's and my burns when we were in to visit Frank! We know we are truly blessed!! So not exactly our story in a nutshell, BUT for me it's as close as I could get!! Sorry for the long post!


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

OMG, Ember!! My heart goes out to you and your family!! I hope all make a quick, or at least a STEADY, recovery. 
I've never experienced this, but my 2nd husband worked in concrete, building bridges and culverts. He got "concrete poisoning" a couple of times while we were married, by a tiny hole in his rubber boots or getting accidental contact to bare skin. He said it was VERY painful, a very burning sensation.
Several of his coworkers had to be hospitalized for burns......thankfully, he never was, but when HE complained of pain? It was definitely like a level 10, on a scale of 1-10!!
I'll keep you all in my thoughts and prayers, and thanks for the warning to fellow OBers!!
God Bless!
Darlene


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## swanny (Oct 31, 2007)

A few years ago my youngest son had a motorcycle accident. He had a lot of server road rash. He was in the hospital for 10 Days in a burn ward. While visiting him everyday I got to know this guy trying to walk the hallways. He had really bad burns on his legs. He told me he had chemical burns, I asked acid? he said no concrete. I was amazed.

kevin


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Wow, thanks for the warning. Take care of yourself and the family! Ok, now I have to do some research to find out about this. I've used concrete many times and had no idea it could do more than just dry out your skin.


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## battalionchief3 (Jun 27, 2006)

Sorry to hear that. I have been a paramdeic for 15 years and burns are nasty. People think im stupid for the saftey precautions I take doing just about anything....well I leaned a lot in 15 years but I still ride a Harley







Good luck and get well soon.


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## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

Thanks all! It is incredibaly painful, has the same "HOT" feeling for days just like a heat burn! The dry skin rash is the worst we have ever had before and THOUGHT that was a cement burn! I should also add that we receive several concrete specific trade magazines, and have not seen any pics or stories in them that even begin to describe the burns that we have are a possibility. We are thinking that we may change that by writing an article of our own!!
We have now moved to the point that the itch of healing is worse than the pain of the remaining bad spots! Frank's Facebook status this morning is 'I itch, I itch, I itch'!! He has kept his sense of humour for the whole ordeal!!


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## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

Nathan said:


> Wow, thanks for the warning. Take care of yourself and the family! Ok, now I have to do some research to find out about this. I've used concrete many times and had no idea it could do more than just dry out your skin.


Nathan did you go to my link? It expains alot. As to using concrete many times we have poured over 50 yards in 2010!! and have no idea how much we have poured in our life time!! and have never had more than dry skin.


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## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

mountainlady56 said:


> OMG, Ember!! My heart goes out to you and your family!! I hope all make a quick, or at least a STEADY, recovery.
> I've never experienced this, but my 2nd husband worked in concrete, building bridges and culverts. He got "concrete poisoning" a couple of times while we were married, by a tiny hole in his rubber boots or getting accidental contact to bare skin. He said it was VERY painful, a very burning sensation.
> Several of his coworkers had to be hospitalized for burns......thankfully, he never was, but when HE complained of pain? It was definitely like a level 10, on a scale of 1-10!!
> I'll keep you all in my thoughts and prayers, and thanks for the warning to fellow OBers!!
> ...


He did not exaggerate his pain!! Yeah when Stacey and Frank complained of pain it was serious!! When Frank (who didn't want to go the ER when he cut his thumb off) said he thought he needed to go to the ER it was SERIOUS!!


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

One bad batch with too much lime and it will burn. Was this bagged or pre-mix?


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

I can only say, we are thinking of you all. I have never heard of this before and couldn't imagine. Best of luck to you all and full recovery.

Jim


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

My word...Concrete?? I had no idea! I am very sorry to hear of the injuries to you all.

-CC


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## betegreene (Aug 25, 2009)

So sorry you've had to go through this, I hope everyone makes a swift and strong recovery.


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## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

CamperAndy said:


> One bad batch with too much lime and it will burn. Was this bagged or pre-mix?


premix 17 yards of it!


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## swanny (Oct 31, 2007)

Hi Ember, how's everybody doing today? Hope all are doing better.

kevin


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## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

swanny said:


> Hi Ember, how's everybody doing today? Hope all are doing better.
> 
> kevin


Hi Kevin,
We are all feeling better, and Frank did get to come home today!





















I can't believe how fast his skingrafts are healing! Keeping our fingers crossed that it keeps going as good as it has this far. The big risk from here in is infection, none of us has had any so far and we are hoping to keep it that way!
How are you doing?

TTFN
Ember


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

ember said:


> Hi Ember, how's everybody doing today? Hope all are doing better.
> 
> kevin


Hi Kevin,
We are all feeling better, and Frank did get to come home today!





















I can't believe how fast his skingrafts are healing! Keeping our fingers crossed that it keeps going as good as it has this far. The big risk from here in is infection, none of us has had any so far and we are hoping to keep it that way!
How are you doing?

TTFN
Ember
[/quote]

Keeping our fingers crossed for you all as well and in our prayers for continued speedy recoveries.

Jim


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## swanny (Oct 31, 2007)

glad to hear it!! did you guys get the real grafts, If you did i'm sorry. My son said he had skin missing everywhere and they took more off. and it HURT







Or did you get the (spelling) Bio-brain)?
either way get well soon.


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## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

swanny said:


> glad to hear it!! did you guys get the real grafts, If you did i'm sorry. My son said he had skin missing everywhere and they took more off. and it HURT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Frank was the only one of us who got grafts. He was sedated for the skingrafts. They took several 3 x 9 "strips" from his upper thigh, and the docs stretched it like expanded steel, stapled it over the "cleaned out" burn areas and covered it with an inch and a half of foam and superduty saranwrap (my definitions not theirs just to clarify) attached with a valve and hose to a wound-vac. (looks like a foodsaver vacuum) that was last Monday they left that on til Friday. He still had a lot of pain, but the skingrafts are looking awesome! I don't know if the wound vac is what your son called the Bio-brain or not, but it could be.


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## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

Thank you all for your well wishes and prayers!! We so appreciate them. I am still having a hard time getting my head around the fact that there is a sticker on MickyD's coffee that tells you it is hot, but the picture of a drop of "stuff" melting a hand outline is all there is on a bag of concrete and it can do this kind of damage!!


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## bradnjess (Mar 25, 2007)

Wow, I've been following this thread and I've never heard of this before. Glad to hear everyone is healing well. I hope your lives are back to normal very soon.

Brad


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## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

Thanks everyone for the well wishes and prayers etc. Today at noon Frank goes to the burn clinic for a check up!! Yesterday part of the bandage on his donor site came off! (This is a good thing, means it's healing quickly!! Think of us with good thoughts for a few seconds at noon if you can!!)
Stacey and I are back at work! Although still walkin' a little funny and being EXTRA aware of what is near our knees!!


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

good to hear of the positive progress!!!

That is some painful scary stuff for sure!!


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

When I had acid burns and later thermo burns from a gas leak at work they had me use Silvadene. It prevents infections and aides healing. Might ask about it. glad to hear that everyone is doing better.

As far as DIY projects, I think that there is too little said about safety for most projects. When they sell everything from 00 gauge wire meant to hook up to the power lines themselves to meric acid to etch concrete, there is a lot of things that can not only hurt you but kill you or others with either 10 pages of cautions that everyone throw away or, like you found out, one little picture that doesn't cover what can happen enough. I went to college for science and chemistry and worked in a chemical plant for 9 years then went to work for a city wastewater treatment plant the used Chlorine gas. I was very cautious and careful around that stuff, but the other guys said I acted like I was scared of it. the problem was, they weren't scared enough.


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

Are you planning on taking any action against the premix company? They should be at least paying for medical bills and time off work if they delivered a defective, hazardous product.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

I spent a year working at a cement distribution center in my younger years. Great pay, but ugly work! Unloading bulk rail cars, loading tanker trucks and bagging cement for the local DIY'ers. Even on the hottest summer days, we always wore multiple layers of clothes. Usually two t-shirts and two sweatshirts up top, long underwear and jeans down below. Add heavy gloves and a face mask and it was the makings of a good time!









Seriously, cement can be pretty nasty stuff. Besides the problems with the lime component, cement dust expands 4-5 times when exposed to moisture. That includes sweat. As it's a very fine powder, it easily gets into skin poars, then when you sweat, it just tears your skin up. Furthermore, those who spend their lives working around it are at high risk of developing "Grey Lung", not at all unlike the "Black Lung" that afflicts many in the coal mining industry.

Concrete itself is a wonderful and flexible building material, but like so many other things, it has to be handled with caution and respect.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

thefulminator said:


> Are you planning on taking any action against the premix company? They should be at least paying for medical bills and time off work if they delivered a defective, hazardous product.


Not the premix companies fault and the product was not defective, and no more hazardous than the 1000s of yards they've delivered to us before. This was just the one that got us! 
It sucks BUT **IT HAPPENS. As I said in my very first post on this thread, I'm only sharing what happened to us in hopes that it saves someone else from the agony!


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## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

PDX_Doug said:


> I spent a year working at a cement distribution center in my younger years. Great pay, but ugly work! Unloading bulk rail cars, loading tanker trucks and bagging cement for the local DIY'ers. Even on the hottest summer days, we always wore multiple layers of clothes. Usually two t-shirts and two sweatshirts up top, long underwear and jeans down below. Add heavy gloves and a face mask and it was the makings of a good time!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We always wear dust masks when mixing our own concrete, and from now on will wear alot more gear all over when working with concrete!


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## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

Lmbevard said:


> When I had acid burns and later thermo burns from a gas leak at work they had me use Silvadene. It prevents infections and aides healing. Might ask about it. glad to hear that everyone is doing better.
> 
> As far as DIY projects, I think that there is too little said about safety for most projects. When they sell everything from 00 gauge wire meant to hook up to the power lines themselves to meric acid to etch concrete, there is a lot of things that can not only hurt you but kill you or others with either 10 pages of cautions that everyone throw away or, like you found out, one little picture that doesn't cover what can happen enough. I went to college for science and chemistry and worked in a chemical plant for 9 years then went to work for a city wastewater treatment plant the used Chlorine gas. I was very cautious and careful around that stuff, but the other guys said I acted like I was scared of it. the problem was, they weren't scared enough.


Silvadene is what we used for the first couple of days, but once we started healing, they switched us to bacitracin.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I hauled cement powder everyday for 10 years. Would blow the stuff 100 feet up into silos with huge roots type electric blowers. The blower was the same as used in GMC diesels, 8-71 was its size.

Anyway, my lungs are shot. I have asthma now too. Didnt realize how bad I was off till I got laid off in late 2007. A few months after I started having trouble. I could use a skin graff in my lungs.. I often wonder how many pounds of cement I injested. Hauled 56 tons everyday for 10 years.

Knowone ever wore protective gear. Since we were far from the silos we werent required to wear gear.. Still got us though. In the summer we would get burns under our noses from sweat mixing with the powder. Going to the cement plant to get the truck loaded was much worse. None of the cement plant employees wore gear either. The only time its required is when the stuff is in close contact. I have decided that anytime one is within 250 feet of cement powder a mask should be worn. lil late now.

Alkalie and lime is nasty stuff. I remember we all would know we had gotten a good huff by the battery taste in our mouth. Yea, put a 9 volt to your tongue.. Cement tastes the same.

I feel sorry for Frank.. Hope he will be ok.

Carey


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## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> I hauled cement powder everyday for 10 years. Would blow the stuff 100 feet up into silos with huge roots types electric blowers. The blower was the same as used in GMC diesels, 8-71 was its size.
> 
> Anyway, my lings are shot. I have asthma now too. Didnt realize how bad I was off till I got laid off in late 2007. A few months after I started having trouble. I could use a skin graff in my lungs.. I often wonder how many pounds of cement I injested. Hauled 56 tons everyday for 10 years.
> 
> ...


Ours is a quick heal compared to spending the rest of your life with asthma!! My Mum would always tell us something could be worse, and even as bad as this sucks, it could have been SO MUCH worse! I'll tell Frank you are thinking of him! We went to the burn clinic today for his check up, and you could see in the Dr.'s faces that they were surprised at how fast Franks grafts are healing. Stacey and I were only there to be with Frank, but the Dr.s asked how we were doing, and did we want them to look at ours too. We told them we were all set, and described how much they were healed, and they seemed kinda disappointed that we didn't have them look at them. We told them how much we appreciated how they treated us all together, and allowed us in to be with Frank, etc. and they told us how much they enjoyed seeing our love and concern for each other as a family! Kinda felt like we should have had a big old group hug right there in the burn clinic!!


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

The first year after, I huffed a tube of albuterol each month. Now they last me 3 months. If I quit smoking I bet I'd be better. Really need to do that. 30 years now. I remember when the cement plant would load us with chunks, we'd have to go inside of the semi tanker and fish em out after we emptied. Would wear a hankerchief.. How stupid, uh.. Would come out looking like a gray casper the ghost. lol That job had some real bad days. Made good money though. Boy nowdays the cement plant has slowed to a crawl. Like who's using cement? We used to bag 2 million 90lb bags a year. Now I bet 250k would cover it.

Frank has a long road yet. Hope things keep going well.

Hang in there Ember..

Carey


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Man, this brings back memories! Carey is right about people not wearing safety gear enough. There were more times than I would care to admit that we chucked the face masks. Mainly because on hot days they would cause a big sweat ring around your face at the point of contact, which would then lead to blisters and rashes from the cement dust. Not pleasant at all!

And the bagging machine was the worst. Hot, heavy work, with little ventilation.

Guess those were the "Good old days", eh?

Anyway, Ember, you guys hang in there. It's no fun, and you certainly got it worse than I have ever heard, but I'm there with you. It will get better!

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Thank god I didnt have to do that part, Doug..

In 2006 they bought a robotic machine that filled the bags, palletized and wrapped the palletts.

lol when that job got taken away by the robot, not a single person complained.. Imagine that! lol

Cement is just nasty stuff dry or wet.

Carey


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## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

Yesterday I celebrated my first day with no bandages, only moisturizing creme!







LOTS of moisturizing creme, like 6 applications, BUT felt good not to have bandages. 
Stacey and Frank are closing in on it too!


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

Thats great. Thanks for the update and we are so happy you guys are all recovering well and quickly.

Jim


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## BritsOnTour (Sep 15, 2006)

WOW! Unbelievable, thanks for sharing your story and glad to hear that everyone is healing slowly - loved the part about about wishing to go to ER as compared with losing a thumb when it wasn't really necessary, LOL!

You all have wonderful humor and positive attitude, thank goodness!

Ali


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## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

We all went to the burn clinic for our check ups today. I don't have to go again, and the boys don't have to go for a month. Dr.s were again impressed with our improvement!! 
Thanks again to every one for checking in over the past few weeks, and for good vibes, happy thoughts and prayers. We appreciate them more words can say!
Ember


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

Awesome awesome. Glad to hear all is still well and getting better faster. Thanks for keeping us posted and allowing to live your story with you. We have all learned a lot because of it.

Jim


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## swanny (Oct 31, 2007)

Thanks for the update. Good to hear.









kevin


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