# Fixing Trailer Sway At Highway Speeds



## NonTypicalCPA

Last summer we picked up a 250RS used and had a local RV guy install a 10,000lb equalizer hitch hooked up to our '05 Yukon XL 1500. The guy wasn't familiar with the equalizer, but I wanted it based on previous use on our other camper. It took him a few attempts to get it "correct" when installing it. We did mostly local camping last year with a couple exceptions. On the highway at 65mph we would get some rear end sway at times that would make my heart jump into my throat. Visually it didn't look bad, but it definately caused a little pucker factor. After season I was wondering if the sway was being caused by too much weight on the rear of the camper or an incorrect hitch installation or too small a tow vehicle. During the fall I replaced the Yukon with an '04 Suburban 2500 with the 8.1 liter gas engine hoping that the bigger tow vehicle will help. With the new vehicle I will have to adjust the hitch and am thinking about having an actual RV dealer perform the work. I was going to drop the ball a hole or two myself, but am now having second thoughts. Should the camper sit lower in the front when hooked to the tow vehicle? My previous setup had it sitting very level.

What should I do to fix the sway? We're planning a 3000 mile trip this summer and if it's not fixed by then I'll have gray hair by the time we get back. Thanks.


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## Sean Woodruff

The trailer should sit level when hitched and with the weight distributed to the tow vehicle.

You can do a lot of things to damp sway but until you change the source of the sway, the location of the pivot point, the possibility of sway will always exist.


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## NonTypicalCPA

Sean Woodruff said:


> The trailer should sit level when hitched and with the weight distributed to the tow vehicle.
> 
> You can do a lot of things to damp sway but until you change the source of the sway, the location of the pivot point, the possibility of sway will always exist.


Could you explain that further? Change the location of the pivot point - that seems pretty fixed to me unless I'm missing your point?


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## Sean Woodruff

NonTypicalCPA said:


> Could you explain that further? Change the location of the pivot point - that seems pretty fixed to me unless I'm missing your point?


Trailer sway is a condition of a multi-variable system. Changing many of the variables of that system will change the probability for sway to occur. The variables are tow vehicle weight, tow vehicle wheel base, tow vehicle suspension, tow vehicle rear overhang, tire size and type, trailer weight, tongue weight, trailer length, trailer loading, driver inputs, road conditions, weather, traffic, and towing speed.

Changing any ONE of these variables will affect towing stability.

Most RVers will tell you, and rightly so, that a 5th wheel tows better than a travel trailer. I ask, why is that? What variables change with 5ht wheels? Why is there not a "friction bar" type product that connects from the frame rails to the pin box of a 5th wheel?

The primary difference between the 5th wheel and travel trailer is the location of the pivot point.

A 5th wheel does not have leverage on the tow vehicle because the pivot point is over the rear axle of the tow vehicle. Any force applied to the 5th wheel is not acting at a distance behind the rear axle and leveraging that force against the tow vehicle.

With a travel trailer the load is applied behind the rear axle. That load is multiplied, leveraged, against the tow vehicle. The wheel base, suspension, tires, and driver inputs must apply a counteracting leverage. Of course, once that is applied you have the load going back in the other direction. It can be a vicious cycle.

All of the conventional travel trailer hitches attempt to apply some type of force to offset the sway forces.

Non-conventional travel trailer hitches change the effective pivot point of the trailer.


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## Rip

buy a propride hitch http://www.propridehitch.com/products/ProPride-3P-Trailer-Sway-Control-Hitch-.html


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## #40Fan

A slightly downward nose will usually help with the tongue weight that is needed to prevent sway. Granted, a longer wheel base, heavier tow vehicle will calm it as well.


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## dhdb

We had a similar issue with sway last year. Hitch is setup correctly. Nose down alittle on the tt. The only adjustment I actually made was to redistribute the weight inside the TT. The Equalizer works much better with some weight on it. I was always a bit hesitant to add weight inside the front of the TT. Our last long trip (Acadia Rally) we were loaded pretty heavy up front. The TV and TT traveled straight as an arrow at 65mph. No problems what so ever. Before you go crazy, make sure your hitch is installed and adjusted correctly. After that, if the problem still exists, redistribute some weight in the TT.


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## cdn campers

Sean Woodruff said:


> Could you explain that further? Change the location of the pivot point - that seems pretty fixed to me unless I'm missing your point?


Trailer sway is a condition of a multi-variable system. Changing many of the variables of that system will change the probability for sway to occur. The variables are tow vehicle weight, tow vehicle wheel base, tow vehicle suspension, tow vehicle rear overhang, tire size and type, trailer weight, tongue weight, trailer length, trailer loading, driver inputs, road conditions, weather, traffic, and towing speed.

Changing any ONE of these variables will affect towing stability.

Most RVers will tell you, and rightly so, that a 5th wheel tows better than a travel trailer. I ask, why is that? What variables change with 5ht wheels? Why is there not a "friction bar" type product that connects from the frame rails to the pin box of a 5th wheel?

The primary difference between the 5th wheel and travel trailer is the location of the pivot point.

A 5th wheel does not have leverage on the tow vehicle because the pivot point is over the rear axle of the tow vehicle. Any force applied to the 5th wheel is not acting at a distance behind the rear axle and leveraging that force against the tow vehicle.

With a travel trailer the load is applied behind the rear axle. That load is multiplied, leveraged, against the tow vehicle. The wheel base, suspension, tires, and driver inputs must apply a counteracting leverage. Of course, once that is applied you have the load going back in the other direction. It can be a vicious cycle.

All of the conventional travel trailer hitches attempt to apply some type of force to offset the sway forces.

Non-conventional travel trailer hitches change the effective pivot point of the trailer.
[/quote]
very well stated i never could get a good answer from any body why a 5th wheel over a tt re towing ease .tks


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## duggy

My experience with box trailers, boat trailers, and travel trailers, has taught me that the number one cause of sway is improper tongue weight. If you achieve 10 to 15% (preferably about 12%) tongue weight, you will rarely if ever experience trailer sway. All the other things Sean mentioned do have an effect, but tongue weight is number one.
My coworker basically lost control (he was swaying across both lanes and leaving black marks on the road) with a box trailer loaded with 3000 pounds of sand (total trailer weight of about 3500 lbs), which he had loaded heavy in the rear to make it easier to unload. He was driving a full size pickup, and as soon as he approached 50 mph, he was in trouble. That same trailer has made hundreds of uneventful trips, when properly loaded.

The 250RS has the fresh water tank behind the trailer axles. If it is filled, it will reduce tongue weight significantly. We travel with a small amount of water, for roadside flushes and such, then fill at the campground. We also store the soda and beer under the front bunks. I've never had a hint of sway, even meeting large trucks, or in high winds. I _have_ had movement in high wind (the entire truck and trailer moved sideways), but it wasn't followed by more movement. A good hitch, big truck, long wheelbase, and other variables, will help maintain control in the event of a problem, but the chances of trouble are much less, if the trailer is loaded in a way that maintains proper tongue weight.


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## Sean Woodruff

duggy said:


> My experience with box trailers, boat trailers, and travel trailers, has taught me that the number one cause of sway is improper tongue weight. If you achieve 10 to 15% (preferably about 12%) tongue weight, you will rarely if ever experience trailer sway. All the other things Sean mentioned do have an effect, but tongue weight is number one.


Tongue weight is important but it isn't number one. If it were I would not be able to tow a trailer with zero tongue weight. I CAN, and HAVE, towed without sway with the pivot point of the trailer projected forward. Pivot point location is the number one problem causing trailer sway.


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## rdvholtwood

NonTypicalCPA said:


> Last summer we picked up a 250RS used and had a local RV guy install a 10,000lb equalizer hitch hooked up to our '05 Yukon XL 1500. The guy wasn't familiar with the equalizer, but I wanted it based on previous use on our other camper. It took him a few attempts to get it "correct" when installing it. We did mostly local camping last year with a couple exceptions. On the highway at 65mph we would get some rear end sway at times that would make my heart jump into my throat. Visually it didn't look bad, but it definately caused a little pucker factor. After season I was wondering if the sway was being caused by too much weight on the rear of the camper or an incorrect hitch installation or too small a tow vehicle. During the fall I replaced the Yukon with an '04 Suburban 2500 with the 8.1 liter gas engine hoping that the bigger tow vehicle will help. With the new vehicle I will have to adjust the hitch and am thinking about having an actual RV dealer perform the work. I was going to drop the ball a hole or two myself, but am now having second thoughts. Should the camper sit lower in the front when hooked to the tow vehicle? My previous setup had it sitting very level.
> 
> What should I do to fix the sway? We're planning a 3000 mile trip this summer and if it's not fixed by then I'll have gray hair by the time we get back. Thanks.


I have a 250RS and am using the 10K equalizer hitch. I did the installation myself and initially I thought that it was "dialed" in correctly; however, it never felt quite right when I was on the road. I had a hunch that it may have something to do with tongue weight and so I decided to take the 250RS to a local weigh station. What I had found is that my approximated tongue weight was no where near what the actual measured tongue weight should be. After adjusting the height of the ball, based upon the new tongue weight, towing was a lot better. Granted, there is more factors to consider for towing, but, its a start.

I usually don't travel at 65mph when towing and don't know if its the speed or your setup that is causing the problems. There are a lot of good resources here on the forum that have plenty of information on weight calculations. Also, I would highly recommend contacting Dan at Equalizer (Progress Manufacturing) Customer Service at 1-800-478-5578 and talk to him. Dan is a great resource and has helped many a time with equalizer related questions.


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## cdn campers

Sean Woodruff said:


> The trailer should sit level when hitched and with the weight distributed to the tow vehicle.
> 
> You can do a lot of things to damp sway but until you change the source of the sway, the location of the pivot point, the possibility of sway will always exist.


sean do they sell the pro pride 3p towing set up in western canada ? sincerly doug.


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## Sean Woodruff

cdn campers said:


> The trailer should sit level when hitched and with the weight distributed to the tow vehicle.
> 
> You can do a lot of things to damp sway but until you change the source of the sway, the location of the pivot point, the possibility of sway will always exist.


sean do they sell the pro pride 3p towing set up in western canada ? sincerly doug.
[/quote]

We ship them to Western Canada all the time. Quite a few go to Alberta.


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## duggy

Sean Woodruff said:


> My experience with box trailers, boat trailers, and travel trailers, has taught me that the number one cause of sway is improper tongue weight. If you achieve 10 to 15% (preferably about 12%) tongue weight, you will rarely if ever experience trailer sway. All the other things Sean mentioned do have an effect, but tongue weight is number one.


Tongue weight is important but it isn't number one. If it were I would not be able to tow a trailer with zero tongue weight. I CAN, and HAVE, towed without sway with the pivot point of the trailer projected forward. Pivot point location is the number one problem causing trailer sway.
[/quote]

I'm unfamiliar with projecting the pivot point forward. I assume that requires a more complex hitch than the average Equal-i-zer or Dual Cam. If that assumption is correct, I stand by my statement that tongue weight is the most important factor. The average Joe towing a utility trailer isn't going to have a high tech hitch. If they load the trailer properly, they shouldn't have any problems under normal conditions, assuming they're towing with a decently sized vehicle.
I understand that the high end hitches can make what would normally be an unsafe combination, safe, but a 3/4 ton Suburban should be able to comfortably tow a 250 RS, with a standard weight distributing hitch with built-in sway control.


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## Red Beard

Just because someone a dealership "adjusts" the hitch does NOT mean that it is correct. 
Print off the directions and read and understand them, get your self some wrenches and a tape measure, go to a flat spot and take the time to adjust the hitch. 
When the dealership "adjusted" mine lest just say it more than a hand full - it was so messed up, 3/4 inch tongue high to start with. 
This is not an issue of needing a different hitch; the EQ is a fine hitch, I happen prefer a different brand. None the less the EQ is a good quality hitch as many here will attest to. So lets not all start down that road. 
You, should start with the TV tire pressure make sure that they are properly set, then the TT tire pressure. Now that you have the tires set go to the next step. 
The nest step is adjusting the hitch this can take a little bit of time to get things just right but when you do it is a wonderful thing. 
I would suggest getting the directions reading them and then when you have questions, either call EQ as someone suggested or post them and I am sure that they will be answered. 
BTW-X2 on having the water tank rear of the axle changing the hitch weight. 
Just my 0.02 cents.


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## W.E.BGood

NonTypicalCPA...you do not need to buy anything else. Your Equalizer being PROPERLY adjusted, and PROPER load distribution in the trailer and tow vehicle will solve your problem. I'm with duggy, in my experience the correct tongue weight is a HUGE factor and the 250Rs has a big freshwater tank a fair ways out-back of the axles which, when full, will significantly







-up the tongue. I have the same Equalizer set-up with my '08 Tundra and 250RS, I set it with a very slight nose-down attitude, travel with a full fresh water tank and love it. Even the wife, who was scared to begin-with, enjoys and feels confident driving it on the highways. rdvholtwood has an excellent suggestion to call Progress Manufacturing, and familiarize yourself thoroughly with the Equalizer instructions beforehand. Regards, BGood


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## SLO250RS

I will offer this as I had too adjust my Equalizer 10K 3 times.I went from a 120" w.b.Chrysler Aspen to a 145" w.b.F-150 to a 172"w.b.F-350 in one camping season.Make sure when you adjust the hitch the camper is loaded as you would go camping and ditto for your tow vehicle.IMHO that is very important in proper set-up.Go to Progress Mfg's website and watch the set up video so you can get a feel for the install/adjustment(it will take longer than 11 mins to do







)Good luck.


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## cdn campers

Sean Woodruff said:


> The trailer should sit level when hitched and with the weight distributed to the tow vehicle.
> 
> You can do a lot of things to damp sway but until you change the source of the sway, the location of the pivot point, the possibility of sway will always exist.


sean do they sell the pro pride 3p towing set up in western canada ? sincerly doug.
[/quote]

We ship them to Western Canada all the time. Quite a few go to Alberta.
[/quote]
i spoke with sean on the telephone yesterday. had a great conversation re the propride and other rv towing related topics. thks again sean. from snowy saskatoon ( got about 12 inches of snow last night)


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## clarkely

cdn campers said:


> The trailer should sit level when hitched and with the weight distributed to the tow vehicle.
> 
> You can do a lot of things to damp sway but until you change the source of the sway, the location of the pivot point, the possibility of sway will always exist.


sean do they sell the pro pride 3p towing set up in western canada ? sincerly doug.
[/quote]

We ship them to Western Canada all the time. Quite a few go to Alberta.
[/quote]
i spoke with sean on the telephone yesterday. had a great conversation re the propride and other rv towing related topics. thks again sean. from snowy saskatoon ( got about 12 inches of snow last night)
[/quote]

I have found him to be a great resource and very easy to talk to, and very accessible - there are many good hitches out there, equalizer & Reese straight line and pivot projection like the Hensley and pro-pride - so you have a lot of choices that offer different things and different price points.... he sells the Reese as well.........

Bigger truck - heaver truck, bigger brakes, longer wheelbase (dually wider wheel base), more torque - are all good things to have depending in the size you want to pull behind you. If you study the physics of pivot projection ........well it makes sense on paper.......... and having gone to one ..... the physics real world application is correct. By no means am i saying there aren't other options - There are......... i just wouldn't simply say one is better because it cost more or one is better because i have used it for years....... the only way to know what is right for you is to have have tried and experienced the differences. With that said you need to make sure your hitch is set up correctly and any others you may try........

I towed 5 years with the camper (20+ years pulling a 20' enclosed car trailer and snowmobile trailer) - and then switched to a pivot projection hitch and haven't looked back ;-) I towed with a standard hitch with WD bars and as well as with the Reese straight line - i towed friends set ups to see what they were experiencing and helped them in dialing their set ups in.........

You are taking the correct approach in asking questions and gathering information to make the best informed decisions for you and your family.


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## funbikerchick

I own a 250RS. I recently towed it from Massachusetts to Florida (approx. 3300 miles). I traveled at 70 mph the entire way. No sway AT ALL! I had sway before I bought my equalizer hitch. As others have said, the secret is to make sure there is enough weight up front to compensate for the weight in the back. Remember that in addition to the water tank, you have the rear slide bed. I traveled without fresh water because I chose to stay in hotels and I used the rest stop bathrooms during my trip. I stow a lot of gear on my trip. With the exception of whatever is in my cabinets, it all goes to the front of the camper. The hitch you have is more than sufficient. It is likely the weight distribution with the tt that needs adjusting.

Tena


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## Scoutr2

#40Fan said:


> A slightly downward nose will usually help with the tongue weight that is needed to prevent sway. Granted, a longer wheel base, heavier tow vehicle will calm it as well.


Agreed! It is nearly impossible to get a trailer to sit perfectly level when hitched. This is especially true when the weight in the tow vehicle and the weight in the trailer can vary in amount and in distribution from front to rear from trip to trip. That said, if the trailer must sit a litle out of level when hitched to the TV, set up your hitch so the trailer sits "tongue low," to put more weight on the ball, which helps to improve control of the trailer and to minimize sway. If the tongue sits higher than the rear bumper, the trailer will be difficult to control and sway will be noticeable with almost every change in the road - especially with cross-winds or when encountering semi-trailers.

EXAMPLE: My trailer tongue sits about 3/4" lower than the rear of the trailer and I have no issues with sway or control. And since the hitch head has adjustments in 1" increments, if I moved the head up to the next pair of bolt holes, the tongue would sit 1/4" higher than the rear of the trailer.

Realize, though, that "tongue low" will place more weight on the rear of the TV. I was able to distribute that weight forward and level out my TV using the weight-distribution hitch adjustments (I angled the head back a little more, which causes the bars to tip down more, allowing the WD hitch to throw more weight toward the front axle of the TV.)

I have an Equal-i-zer hitch and the installation instructions are very good about how to make adjustments to get the hitch dialed in properly. No two trailer/TV combinations are the same.

Hope this helps!

Mike


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## CamperAndy

Scoutr2 said:


> Realize, though, that "tongue low" will place more weight on the rear of the TV.


This point is not correct. Angle of attack of the trailer does not change the tongue load. One way to see this is to have a scale under the tongue jack. Raise and lower the tongue with the jack and the scale will still show the same weight. The only significant thing that changes is the weight spread to the two trailer axles. This effect is also limited by the way the Outback shackles are mounted, with a level trailer both trailer axles have the same weight. As the tongue goes down the weight is partially shifted to the trailer front axle but with the equalizing "T" bracket it tries to maintain equal loading between the two trailer axles.

All of the above said, level is best but if you can not be level then nose down is the next best choice. More of an aerodynamic consideration then a weight one.


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## hazmat456

CamperAndy said:


> Realize, though, that "tongue low" will place more weight on the rear of the TV.


This point is not correct. Angle of attack of the trailer does not change the tongue load. One way to see this is to have a scale under the tongue jack. Raise and lower the tongue with the jack and the scale will still show the same weight. The only significant thing that changes is the weight spread to the two trailer axles. This effect is also limited by the way the Outback shackles are mounted, with a level trailer both trailer axles have the same weight. As the tongue goes down the weight is partially shifted to the trailer front axle but with the equalizing "T" bracket it tries to maintain equal loading between the two trailer axles.

All of the above said, level is best but if you can not be level then nose down is the next best choice. More of an aerodynamic consideration then a weight one.
[/quote] 
Have you tried this? I have and the weight will changed significantly.almost 100 pounds between 1" above level and 1" below with a 700# level measured weight. This is so important that I purchased a gooseneck ball that has a taller base that increases the adjustment increments to get the trailer closer to level


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## CamperAndy

hazmat456 said:


> Have you tried this?


Actually I have but I have no photographic evidence and the trailer is under a foot of snow at the moment so I can't use it but I will set up an experiment in the basement to demonstrate the effect (or lack of one) when changing the angle of attack of the trailer tongue.


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## Scoutr2

hazmat456 said:


> Realize, though, that "tongue low" will place more weight on the rear of the TV.


This point is not correct. Angle of attack of the trailer does not change the tongue load. One way to see this is to have a scale under the tongue jack. Raise and lower the tongue with the jack and the scale will still show the same weight. The only significant thing that changes is the weight spread to the two trailer axles. This effect is also limited by the way the Outback shackles are mounted, with a level trailer both trailer axles have the same weight. As the tongue goes down the weight is partially shifted to the trailer front axle but with the equalizing "T" bracket it tries to maintain equal loading between the two trailer axles.

All of the above said, level is best but if you can not be level then nose down is the next best choice. More of an aerodynamic consideration then a weight one.
[/quote] 
Have you tried this? I have and the weight will changed significantly.almost 100 pounds between 1" above level and 1" below with a 700# level measured weight. This is so important that I purchased a gooseneck ball that has a taller base that increases the adjustment increments to get the trailer closer to level
[/quote]

My experiences are much the same. Although I have not actually weighed the differences, I have used a tape to measure the differences in height of the rear wheel wells and the front wheel wells, to determine if the WD hitch is distributing the weight evenly between the front and rear axles. When I lower the ball, the trailer causes the rear of the truck to sag more. I have to assume that is caused by more weight on the ball - thus, my advice to tilt the head back a little when lowering the physical height of the ball (and stinger) on the hitch head.

But I would sure like to prove/disprove Andy's claim. More knowledge is a good thing!

Mike


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## CamperAndy

Scoutr2 said:


> I would sure like to prove/disprove Andy's claim. More knowledge is a good thing!
> 
> Mike


Okay to set up the experiment I used a piece of wood to represent the trailer. It had an over hung weight with a pivot point to represent the axle. I then set up to weigh the overhung weight at various angles from level to fully nose down.

Photo 1 shows the rig more or less level.









And the 9.0 pounds









This shows the rig nose down some.









And the same 9.0 pounds









This shows the rig as far noise down as I can get it.









And again the same 9.0 pounds









I hope this shows that the dead overhung weight of the tongue does not change due to the nose down angle of the tongue.


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## clarkely

nose down puts more weight on your leading axle as opposed to your trailing axle which helps.....

On a traditional Ball Mount design Nose down and Hitch head angle can affect WD bars and thus weight transfer and thus sway.......

the experiment is a good display that weight weighs the same no matter whether it was level down or even up ..... but we all know we dont want to be hitch high.........

I think it really needs to be done with hitch and wd bars in to see different affects.


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## CamperAndy

clarkely said:


> nose down puts more weight on your leading axle as opposed to your trailing axle which helps.....
> 
> On a traditional Ball Mount design Nose down and Hitch head angle can affect WD bars and thus weight transfer and thus sway.......
> 
> the experiment is a good display that weight weighs the same no matter whether it was level down or even up ..... but we all know we dont want to be hitch high.........
> 
> I think it really needs to be done with hitch and wd bars in to see different affects.


The weight transfer between axles for a given tongue angle is minor. It is minimized by the "T" bar equalizer that shifts axle load from one axle to the other as one becomes more loaded. This has limits but a 1" shift in tongue height is only a degree or two of shift at the axles. I have heard that having more weight on the front axle helps for a steering effect (or lack of one) as compared to having more weight on the back axle but you would have to have a significantly reduced tongue weight or a grossly high tongue angle to shift significant weight to the back axle.

About having to do the test with the weight distribution bars. This should not be an issue if set correctly but I will agree it would be harder to get the correct bar angle and weight transfer if you start out with the tongue angled up, the main reason for this is the adjustments are just not typically there to achieve correct set up with a high tongue.

This is a good discussion for the off season but it is tough to go out and test some of the suggestions with everything buried in snow.


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