# Just Bought A 21rs- Is An 06' Gmc 1500 Enough?



## Outback Bob (Nov 28, 2006)

I just picked up my 21RS yesterday







I am looking at an 06 GMC Sierra with the 5.3 motor and tow package. Are the newer GMC's better built (increased tow capacity) to pull 6000 lbs? It's rated at 8000lb. Using the 80% rule, is this a good choice? 
Thanks,
Bob


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## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

You'll do fine towing the 21 RS. That little puppy will trail along.

Randy


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Castle Rock Outbackers said:


> You'll do fine towing the 21 RS. That little puppy will trail along.
> 
> Randy


x2









You'll do fine.

Bill.


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## Scott and Jamie (Aug 27, 2006)

X3


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## z-family (Oct 2, 2004)




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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

Hi Bob , Welcome,
Ok, I'm in the minority. Will it Tow ? yes? will you constantly be towing dry? yes. will you constantly be playing the weight distribution game between trailer and truck? yes. Will you be underpowered on long grades. yes. 
Additional weight hitch, batteries, gas, groceries, gear, passengers, etc.. really eats up amount of tow capacity in the 1500 series trucks in a hurry. Having towed a 21rs with a 5.4 triton V8 4x4 f-150 with tow pkg for a year I was very dissapointed. Just my opinion based on my own experiance with similar setup. Additionally, I dont know about GMC's all that much but the f-150 tranny was aweful, (always running at high RPM's and constantly seeking gears). it was a real headache.


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## outbackgeorgia (Jan 28, 2004)

OutbackBob,

I tow a 21RS with a 4.7 L Duramgo (3.92 axle) and it is just fine. Slow up a 7% grade? Yes. OK to the Grand Canyon, Rushmore, Balck Hills, etc. fully loaded.
Depends what you want and need. Some will say a 1 Ton Dually is just about right for a 21RS!
Have fun with the 21RS!
There is no 80% rule, more like a guideline for selling tow vehicles.
Go by the specs and ratings for your vehicle from the manufacturer and you will be fine.
Dave


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## tripphammer (Oct 3, 2006)

You'll do just fine. Just make sure you get a good WD hitch system. the 5.3 has to work a bit harder than the 6.0 but if you are a patient person this should be any problem. Just make your PM is done regularly and this will help the engine deal with the load.
Take Care,
Tripp


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## Karma (Nov 13, 2005)

We pull our 23RS with an 05 Yukon XL 1500 with a 5.3l, 3.42 rear, and we do just fine around here. Moderate hills and long flat stretches for the most part, and our gas milage isn't that bad. going up some of the steeper hills has us dropping down into second sometimes, but we don't seem to lose speed. use the tow mode and keep it in 3rd -- those 5.3ls like it when they are cruising at around the 3k mark, and I'm told that the slightly higher rpm will somehow, don't ask me for deails on this, ensure that the fluid in the transmission is being well circulated through the cooler. 
The 21 and 23 are nice size trailers and pull excellent -- you'll be quite satisfied -- good choice.


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

I had an 04 GMC Sierra 5.3L extended cab and managed to tow a 27RSDS, though it was rough going, and I upgraded. I think you'll be fine with the 21RS. Enjoy!
Darlene


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Hi Outback Bob!









Welcome to Outbackers and congrats on your new 21rs!!
I'm sure all will be just fine








Enjoy, be safe and happy camping,
Dawn


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## Dan V (May 21, 2006)

Don't get a 1/2 ton with the 5.3 motor if your going to do any kind of towing in the mountians . The 21RS while being a smaller Outback is not that light and that truck does not have enough power unless you stay in the flat lands . Been there , done that ! I own a 21RS and had a real low mileage 2004 Chevy 1/2 ton , if your idea of fun is a white knuckle ride just about everywhere you go and driving in 2nd gear and sometimes in first gear in the Mts. go ahead and get the half ton . I traded up for a 3/4 ton with a larger motor and the difference is like day and night , handling is great , no more white knuckle rides even in the wind and the extra power is a big plus . The 6.0 motor is a good choice . if you can afford it get the Duramax , enough power and then some !


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

Outback Bob said:


> I just picked up my 21RS yesterday
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Outback Bob,

What area of the country do you live and where/how far do you plan to travel? I believe this should be an important factor in chosing your tow vehicle. The 5.3 will do it, but if you plan on traveling long distances and in the mountains the extra power would make a huge difference.


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

We've been towing our 21RS for 4 seasons now with a 1/2 ton yukon. That's the truck we had when we bought the trailer so until the time comes to upgrade, that's what we've got. While it does a good job towing if I was in your position looking to buy a new tow vehicle I wouldn't even be considering a 1/2 ton. A 3/4 ton truck will do a far better job. The heavier duty springs, chassis, brakes etc. that the 3/4 ton gives you makes for a much better and more comfortable towing situation.

Mike


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Hi, I'm with the majority. You will be just fine with that combo.

Carey


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## Outback Bob (Nov 28, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Hi, I'm with the majority. You will be just fine with that combo.
> 
> Carey


Hi Carey,
What kind of MPG's are you getting with your hemi when you're not towing?
Thanks for the response.
Bob


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

I think you should be fine. I started towing my 25RSS with a 1/2 ton Yukon and found it to be ok even in the mountains. Not great -- but ok. Towing a smaller 21RS with the longer wheelbase of a pickup should serve you nicely. Just be careful and use a good hitch properly tuned to your setup.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

I think you're fine. Just do as people have said and get a good WD system.

Congrats on the Outback!!


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## bridge bandit (Apr 29, 2006)

outback bob
I have the same truck with the 4.01 diff and have the 23rs - ours does fine. We only camp 4 to 5 months a year so it does fine for our needs. When we bought our choice was either the gmc or the dodge with the hemi. I wanted the dodge but guess who the boss is in our family - we got the gmc.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Outback Bob said:


> Hi, I'm with the majority. You will be just fine with that combo.
> 
> Carey


Hi Carey,
What kind of MPG's are you getting with your hemi when you're not towing?
Thanks for the response.
Bob
[/quote]
-

Hi, about 12-14 in town. 15-16 on the highway running 75-80 mph.. 10 towing. For the power these Hemi's have, I think its a fair trade..

Carey


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## Husker92 (Feb 11, 2006)

Welcome to the site!!

New Trailer and New truck - You're all set for some fun!


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## 3LEES (Feb 18, 2006)

As you can see from my signature, I own a 21RS and tow with a 2005 Sierra. I have the quad cab and short bed. 143.5" wheel base, 5.3l, 3.73 diff.

My tv does a very workman like job towing our camper. We like our setup and will use it for a long time.

That being said, I don't think I would want to tow anything bigger than the 21RS with this truck.

So if you think you might upgrade in a couple of years, making the move to a bigger tv might be a good option. Of course, bigger means more $$$. If we could manage it, we would get a bigger tv.

For now, our Sierra and 21RS will do us just fine.

Dan


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Scooter said:


> Hi Bob , Welcome,
> Ok, I'm in the minority. Will it Tow ? yes? will you constantly be towing dry? yes. will you constantly be playing the weight distribution game between trailer and truck? yes. Will you be underpowered on long grades. yes.
> Additional weight hitch, batteries, gas, groceries, gear, passengers, etc.. really eats up amount of tow capacity in the 1500 series trucks in a hurry. Having towed a 21rs with a 5.4 triton V8 4x4 f-150 with tow pkg for a year I was very dissapointed. Just my opinion based on my own experiance with similar setup. Additionally, I dont know about GMC's all that much but the f-150 tranny was aweful, (always running at high RPM's and constantly seeking gears). it was a real headache.


I don't know about that Ford motor but my Chevy 5.3L will pull my 23RS loaded up a 8 % grade at 50 mph with no problems. I do all my camping in the Mountains or I have to go over a mountain range to get to the coast and have never had a problem. Your 21RS has the same Gross weight as the 23RS and lighter dry so I doubt you will have any problems.

My rig actually pulls better now that I have gotten some miles on it, the 5.3L (327ci) is a really good engine.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Karma said:


> We pull our 23RS with an 05 Yukon XL 1500 with a 5.3l, 3.42 rear, and we do just fine around here. Moderate hills and long flat stretches for the most part, and our gas milage isn't that bad. going up some of the steeper hills has us dropping down into second sometimes, but we don't seem to lose speed. use the tow mode and keep it in 3rd -- those 5.3ls like it when they are cruising at around the 3k mark, and I'm told that the slightly higher rpm will somehow, don't ask me for deails on this, ensure that the fluid in the transmission is being well circulated through the cooler.
> The 21 and 23 are nice size trailers and pull excellent -- you'll be quite satisfied -- good choice.


We have similar setups I also have 3.42 rear end as well and I have no problems with my setup. When I bought the 23RS I was told I would have all these problems and not to expect much, well I have yet to experience any of these issues. I have passed rigs with much bigger engines, I also get a solid 10 mpg and this is driving in the mountains. I can't wait until I can check the gas mileage on a flat road.

It upset me when people who don't even own the same setup are telling everyone it wont work.

Man who says it can't be done, shouldn't bother man who is doing it.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

N7OQ said:


> We pull our 23RS with an 05 Yukon XL 1500 with a 5.3l, 3.42 rear, and we do just fine around here. Moderate hills and long flat stretches for the most part, and our gas milage isn't that bad. going up some of the steeper hills has us dropping down into second sometimes, but we don't seem to lose speed. use the tow mode and keep it in 3rd -- those 5.3ls like it when they are cruising at around the 3k mark, and I'm told that the slightly higher rpm will somehow, don't ask me for deails on this, ensure that the fluid in the transmission is being well circulated through the cooler.
> The 21 and 23 are nice size trailers and pull excellent -- you'll be quite satisfied -- good choice.


It upset me when people who don't even own the same setup are telling everyone it wont work.

Man who says it can't be done, shouldn't bother man who is doing it.
[/quote]

Me too! I cant believe people think you need a 3/4 ton or larger to tow a 21 foot trailer... You know, thats fine if thats what you like. But your basically saying 1/2 tons are only good for pop-ups. These new 1/2 tons would out pull old 3/4 tons by a mile. Even the old fuel injected 454's and 460's dont compare to the new small blocks of this era. In the 80's and 90's they were the pulling kings, towing 35 foot 5er's. Now our 350 horse, 375-400 torque, 5 speed auto, 5000 lb 1/2 tons are considered wimpy trucks.

The frames on all the 1/2 tons are now hydro formed. The frame is prolly 30-40% stronger than they used to be. The only limiting factor now is the semi floating axle and softer springs. Other than that they are as strong as 3/4 tons of the 80's and 90's. The springs are why you 3/4 toners rave about your rigs. Your rig feels more secure loaded. Its no biggie to compensate a lil while towing to recognize the softer springs while driving a 1/2 ton. In trade for a car like vehicle when empty, which is most of the time.

Why spend an extra 10-15k, get worse mileage, have a rougher ride, and lug around an extra 1000 lbs all the time in the empty weight of the truck? When a properly set up 1/2 ton will easilly do the same, get better mileage, ride like a car empty, and handle curves much better empty than any 3/4 ton will ever.

Why waste money if you dont need to. The majority, like me, dont have it to waste. The main reason I bought an Outback, was bang for the buck. There are much nicer trailers out there for much more money. The Outback is a very nice trailer for much less money comparably.

Your lil 1/2 ton set up properly towing a 21 footer wont even come close to your max limits. If you had a 29-30 footer I might be on the 3/4 ton side, but your little 21 can be towed easilly and safely by any full size SUV, or 1/2 ton out there.

May the venting cease!








Carey


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## Dan V (May 21, 2006)

Was going to respond in detail to Carey's post but I doubt he would understand anything I had to say . Seems to see things one way - HIS , so an informative , civil discussion would be impossible !

One who is waiting on a SALE to buy a WD hitch should not be handing out ANY ADVICE on towing ! Value your families safety a little more than that , buy one - tow safely !


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

lol


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## Dan V (May 21, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> lol


Since when is safety on the road a laughing matter ?


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Mr dan... Its pretty funny right now watching you flounder.. lol

I bought my trailer in sept. Used it a few time around here. Parked it for the winter... Just looked at it in the drive... Has a foot of snow on it.... Its 3 degrees out right now! lol By spring I will be ready to use it. I used about all my money buying it. The rest is for Xmas. Come spring I will be ready with all the requirements.

I have driven a semi for 20 years. Have 2 million miles under my belt.. And guess what? Being I'm so unsafe, for some reason I have never had an accident, or even a speeding ticket. I have a totally perfect record.. 2 MILLION miles!

Unfortunatly, you have to pick on me for not getting a wd hitch.. This isnt about me... This is about a guy asking if it is possible to use a 1/2 ton Chev to tow a 21 foot trailer.. The majority of us is telling this person to go for it and dont look back, he will have no trouble..

But for some reason all these 3/4 ton egos get in the way just like all the other rv forums. There is a 10 to 15k price difference.. In this case a 1/2 is Purrrfect!

Youll have to admit that 1/2 tons have come along way in the past few years. Some of us are able to see that and take advantage of the savings that the manufactures are making in the strenghts of 1/2 tons.

And dude the reason I bought a 1/2 ton.... 
I spend 12 hours a day bouncin around in the biggest truck. Big enough to squash a diesel p/u and hardly feel it because I weigh 80,000 lbs... And 12 hours a day listening to that ratty ole diesel... Why for the life of me would I want to buy a 3/4 ton and bounce around and listen to that ratty diesel more.....By the end of the day Ive had ENOUGH! I want a nice comfy, classy, hot rod 1/2 ton.. At that point I bought a trailer to match its capabilities. My Kargoroo... Oh my gosh! Its 23 feet long... What have I done!!! lol

Go To Bed Dan
Carey


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

Having drove it - and lived it for a year - always having to shift weights around. having to leave items behind , (like my Canoe) having to always tow dry (the worst). Upgrading into a 250 was like night and day, and best decision *for me* I ever made. I went back into my old threads and pulled my original f150 numbers With my 150 I was only under GVWR BY 756 LBS. The diffculty was I would exceed GVWR before ever reaching 80% of my max Tow. Weight distribution game was a real headache (could never haul camp wood). I think If folks towing 21rs's with 1500 based setups rolled across a set of scales they would be quite surprised about their actual weights. Also with my 150 the motor was there - the tranny was not. (Living in VT mountains was no help with the situation either) if you read the Tow threads others have had similar tranny expiriences.

My response was not a 3/4 ton ego, as others suggested in this thread. I was relating my personal expirience, The good and the bad. With Sherry and I wanting to Dry camp in very remote areas of Maine next year We could never be able to do that with our 150. Wwith my 250 I feel much more comfortable with my weights and I dont have to tow Dry anymore.

As I said before , I know nothing about GMC's this was just my experience with my Ford 150.

here were my original numbers

*Truck Actuals*
Curb = 4744 lbs, anticipated payload = 1000 lbs (driver, passenger gas, tounge weight etc),GVWR = 6500 lbs
under GVWR by 756 lbs
*Trailer actuals*
21RS curb (dry)= 4130 , camping supplies 1000 lbs, total Actuals = 5130 lbs, Max Tow = 7500 lbs, 80% of max tow = 6000

Regards


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Scooter - makes a point that I experienced. The actual weight of my truck was what surprised me after getting it weighed at the suggestion of this forum.

2002 F-150SC 5.4l dry weight: #4,758
Actual weight with myself, wife, two 3yr. olds and one 1yr old: #5450. 90% full tank. No luggage.









GVW: #6,600
GCVWR: #12,500

Once I started adding in tongue weight, luggage and all the things we expect to take, we realized we will be playing the weight distribution game ourselves and morseo, we were going to be looking at a smaller Outback. I "drew the line" at 5300lb trailers and less but even so, we are getting into this knowing that if we like it and stick with it, we will be replacing our TV. We are considering the 21RS, 23RS and 25RSS - leaning towards the 23RS at this time. There are a couple of guys on this forum, 3LEES being on of them, who "drew the line" at a smaller Outback model. I pay close attention to their remarks regarding their towing experiences. 3LEES describes his 1/2 ton as doing a "workman like job" with his 21RS. I looked up the hp/tq rating of his motor, it is similar to mine (bit better). His gearing is a bit better than mine (3.55 vs. 3.73). I take those facts seriously.

We plan to start slow and easy and get some experience towing the Outback we choose. Safety is our primary concern. We will get an equalizer brand hitch with a prodigy controller. We are modding our truck with two (one to replace the crummy Ford cooler) trans coolers and a temp gauge. A reputable trans shop is going to do the work and examine the trans and fluid. We are fortunate in that we live on flat ground - we can see how things go without the added stress on the TV of hills and mountains while we "get our feet wet".

Good luck...bear in mind I am like you - trying to learn all I can before making a decision. What has surprised me most is the dealers. I would have to guess that 50% of the dealers we have visited swear up and down that we are fine pulling a 28RSDS (or their equivalent). "This entire line is 1/2 ton towable" is a common line we hear. There have been only a couple dealers that started out asking what our TV was and then steering us to models in the length and weight range we are currently looking at.

People flaming 3/4 ton owners or vice versa set aside, what has been most informative to me are the dozens of members of this forum who were towing similar models that we are looking at and say (paraphrasing here) "had a 1/2 ton, it was ok, struggled at times, moved to a 3/4 (or 1ton) and loved it". That is "been there done that" experience speaking that I have not received anywhere else and I am grateful that there is a place like this where one can get it.

To me this means that our towing experience is going to be "ok, will struggle at times if we xyz". We are just going to have to be "ok and struggle at times" for a while. If we love camping in an outback and stick with it, we will upgrade our TV and "love it". If my truck had more miles on it than it currently does (72k) and I were in the market for a new truck today, I would buy a 3/4, no question. That decision came about solely from learning from Outbackers who post their "been there done that experience". Plus, my DW could have her coveted 28RSDS if she wanted









-CC


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## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

bob,

If you want the 1/2 ton and are worried about power GM makes the vmax 1/2 ton pickup. It has the SS motor 6.0L and 345HP with a 4.10 rear and a tow rating of 10,500. Almost bought one vbefore i went for the diesel, because I knew my DW wanted the 5'er.


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## Outback Bob (Nov 28, 2006)

Thanks for all of the info (everyone). I tend to agree w/ you. The 5.3 w/ the 3.73 rear end is rated at 8000lb's. The most I'll ever tow will be 6000. This will also be my business vehicle (outside sales), so the ride and MPG's are very important. Thanks again.
Bob


Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> We pull our 23RS with an 05 Yukon XL 1500 with a 5.3l, 3.42 rear, and we do just fine around here. Moderate hills and long flat stretches for the most part, and our gas milage isn't that bad. going up some of the steeper hills has us dropping down into second sometimes, but we don't seem to lose speed. use the tow mode and keep it in 3rd -- those 5.3ls like it when they are cruising at around the 3k mark, and I'm told that the slightly higher rpm will somehow, don't ask me for deails on this, ensure that the fluid in the transmission is being well circulated through the cooler.
> The 21 and 23 are nice size trailers and pull excellent -- you'll be quite satisfied -- good choice.


It upset me when people who don't even own the same setup are telling everyone it wont work.

Man who says it can't be done, shouldn't bother man who is doing it.
[/quote]

Me too! I cant believe people think you need a 3/4 ton or larger to tow a 21 foot trailer... You know, thats fine if thats what you like. But your basically saying 1/2 tons are only good for pop-ups. These new 1/2 tons would out pull old 3/4 tons by a mile. Even the old fuel injected 454's and 460's dont compare to the new small blocks of this era. In the 80's and 90's they were the pulling kings, towing 35 foot 5er's. Now our 350 horse, 375-400 torque, 5 speed auto, 5000 lb 1/2 tons are considered wimpy trucks.

The frames on all the 1/2 tons are now hydro formed. The frame is prolly 30-40% stronger than they used to be. The only limiting factor now is the semi floating axle and softer springs. Other than that they are as strong as 3/4 tons of the 80's and 90's. The springs are why you 3/4 toners rave about your rigs. Your rig feels more secure loaded. Its no biggie to compensate a lil while towing to recognize the softer springs while driving a 1/2 ton. In trade for a car like vehicle when empty, which is most of the time.

Why spend an extra 10-15k, get worse mileage, have a rougher ride, and lug around an extra 1000 lbs all the time in the empty weight of the truck? When a properly set up 1/2 ton will easilly do the same, get better mileage, ride like a car empty, and handle curves much better empty than any 3/4 ton will ever.

Why waste money if you dont need to. The majority, like me, dont have it to waste. The main reason I bought an Outback, was bang for the buck. There are much nicer trailers out there for much more money. The Outback is a very nice trailer for much less money comparably.

Your lil 1/2 ton set up properly towing a 21 footer wont even come close to your max limits. If you had a 29-30 footer I might be on the 3/4 ton side, but your little 21 can be towed easilly and safely by any full size SUV, or 1/2 ton out there.

May the venting cease!








Carey
[/quote]


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

No doubt today's half-tonners are very capable machines. I pull a 28RS-DS with mine in a challenging environment, and do just fine. I don't think I would go any bigger (though some have), and I can't even think about a fifth wheel due to the pin weight. But, then, if I was going to do a fiver, I would probably skip over the 3/4 ton and go straight to a one ton dually anyway.

You do have to be respectful of the published limits though. Make sure you understand all the ratings and where they come from. The one thing that a 3/4 ton will buy you is a bigger margin for error, and that translates into more peace of mind.









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Outback Bob (Nov 28, 2006)

PDX_Doug said:


> No doubt today's half-tonners are very capable machines. I pull a 28RS-DS with mine in a challenging environment, and do just fine. I don't think I would go any bigger (though some have), and I can't even think about a fifth wheel due to the pin weight. But, then, if I was going to do a fiver, I would probably skip over the 3/4 ton and go straight to a one ton dually anyway.
> 
> You do have to be respectful of the published limits though. Make sure you understand all the ratings and where they come from. The one thing that a 3/4 ton will buy you is a bigger margin for error, and that translates into more peace of mind.
> 
> ...


Thanks to everyone's input, I feel better about my decision. 3.73 rear end, 8000 tow capacity, WD tow package, and a 6000 max tow target. 
Thanks for the advice!
Bob


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Hi Collins family, I agree with you. The '97-03 f150's are considered old technology compared to the new style f150. I would have changed pu's also.

Basically what I'm saying is the newer chevs, say '03 and up. The new ford f150, 04 and up. The new hemi dodge 1500, 03 and up, and the Nissan, which is prolly more capable than any of the above, is the PU's Im talking about. 
I would have rather had a Nissan, but the dealers wouldnt deal. The Nissan is just totally refined in my opinion, the others are less.

Since basically '03, the 1/2 tons have made a vast improvement over what they used to be. They have 5 speed autos. Lots of hp, and are built on Hydro formed frames, although gm started that in around 2000, and it took till '03-'04 for the others to follow. They all now have 4 wheel disc brakes, which makes them stop as good as they go.

But I totally understand if you like 3/4 tons. Like PDX Doug says, more margin for error. And a more stable platform altogether. But for the price a 1/2 ton is now a much more capable platform than anytime in previous history. You can buy a 3/4 ton and just hook up and tow. If you buy a 1/2 ton it still will need around $500 in accessories to make it a capable tow vehicle.

I'm not starting a war here, just stating the facts. Bob ask if it will work, and most agreed it will work.

The biggest truck is always the best truck..
But sometimes either the wallet or lifestyle doesnt allow that, so you make do. Bob isnt asking too much of a 1/2 ton to tow a 21'er.

Sorry about getting people worked up, but my fingers kinda take me over now and then..









Carey


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## Outback Bob (Nov 28, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Hi Collins family, I agree with you. The '97-03 f150's are considered old technology compared to the new style f150. I would have changed pu's also.
> 
> Basically what I'm saying is the newer chevs, say '03 and up. The new ford f150, 04 and up. The new hemi dodge 1500, 03 and up, and the Nissan, which is prolly more capable than any of the above, is the PU's Im talking about.
> I would have rather had a Nissan, but the dealers wouldnt deal. The Nissan is just totally refined in my opinion, the others are less.
> ...


Thanks Carey. What other options are you referring to?


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Outback Bob,

The 3/4 Ton gas comes with quite a gas mileage penalty for someone such as yourself who will be doing a lot of other driving. Having said that you will find some limitations in the mountains with the 5.3L but they shouldn't be too bad at all.

The Chevy has 60 more HP then my old Toyota, over 1000 lbs more GCWR and 600 lbs more GVWR. Look for your trailer to weight 5300 lbs. If I had a Chevy 1/2 Ton I wouldn't have gotten rid of it and changed for what I have now. Biggest weakness is the trans, try to find a better cooler for it and remember that it is a car transmission not a truck transmission.

If you did decide to go to a 3/4 Ton remember that it has tremendous value over the 1/2 ton and in my mind you get literally twice the truck for maybe $2K more. Bigger motor, far more payload, better brakes, better trans and better rear, as well as LT Tires. If you did those upgrades to a 1/2 Ton it would cost you $4K at least.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Njmike, If you could get a 3/4 for only 2k more prolly everyone would have one. Here in my home town a loaded chev 1500 4x4 crew cab short bed is msrp 34000. A like model 3/4 is 44000 for gas and diesel is 48000. Truck prices in Colorado are high, so maybe some where else is different, but there is no way you could buy one for 2k difference.. Maybe if the 1/2 was loaded and the 3/4 was a stripper would be about the only way.

Bob, as far as accessories. 
Most pu's made in the last few years have big enough tranny coolers finally. But check on that. Most new p/u's are coming with synthetic tranny fluid, but if yours doesnt have it i would have it installed. If you want to go all out a deeper trans pan would also be good.

You should install a tranny temp guage. About 150 bucks.

Youll need a weight distributing hitch and sway control.. 4-500 bucks. With weight dist hitch your tongue wt. should be around 350-400#.

If its over that, you'll need overloads on the rear. You can install air bags, Timbrens, or overload springs. From 200-500 bucks.

About all I can think of off the top pf my head. Maybe others have some more input....

Carey

One more thing Bob, get the factory tow package when you pick out your truck.


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Colorado,

You really have to stroll on over to Chevy's website and do a apples to apples build your own on a 1/2 Ton to 3/4 Ton. I was right on the money as in $2K difference. From there it is $5K more for the Dmax/Allison. I did both trucks with Crew Cab, 4WD and LT2 package plus a couple other items here and there. It actually came out as less then $2K although there seems to have been a price increase in '07 on the 1/2 Tons.

Mike


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## Scott and Jamie (Aug 27, 2006)

My Dad picked up a new 2500HD Duramax fully loaded 4 door leather etc for 41k

Scott


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## Rubrhammer (Nov 27, 2006)

[quote name='Colorado~DirtBikers' date='Dec 5 2006, 07:20 PM' post='170532']
Njmike, If you could get a 3/4 for only 2k more prolly everyone would have one. Here in my home town a loaded chev 1500 4x4 crew cab short bed is msrp 34000. A like model 3/4 is 44000 for gas and diesel is 48000. Truck prices in Colorado are high, so maybe some where else is different, but there is no way you could buy one for 2k difference.. Maybe if the 1/2 was loaded and the 3/4 was a stripper would be about the only way.

Bob, as far as accessories. 
Most pu's made in the last few years have big enough tranny coolers finally. But check on that. Most new p/u's are coming with synthetic tranny fluid, but if yours doesnt have it i would have it installed. If you want to go all out a deeper trans pan would also be good.

You should install a tranny temp guage. About 150 bucks.

Youll need a weight distributing hitch and sway control.. 4-500 bucks. With weight dist hitch your tongue wt. should be around 350-400#.

If its over that, you'll need overloads on the rear. You can install air bags, Timbrens, or overload springs. From 200-500 bucks.

Those prices seem a bit high to me. I was on chevy.com and did a build your own last week to see what a nicely equipped 2wd crewcab diesel would cost. It came out to $39633.00 and that wasn't stripped down. Employee price was $33943.00. That is offered at times. Maybe when we are ready to full time, but for now
my current truck pulls our 27rbs fine for the most part with random sorties into 2nd gear in WV. Even Fancy Gap Va. on I77 was doable at 50mph again with short bursts in 2nd. I think with the 3.73s Bob will be ok. I am constantly mulling (when on a steep grade) going to them or 3.90s. The 3.42s leave you at way too low a cruising rpm in OD. I doubt my mileage would suffer do to it being able to stay in OD more of the time. My trailer on the scales was 5460# minus refridgerated food and one clothes basket of duds.
Just for comparison on line I just built a chev 1500 with same trim level and options (no diesel obviously) and msrp is$26448.00 with employee price of $23473.00. $10500 is a big difference that at this point I don't need. Not knocking the 3/4 trucks. They are nice and the newer GM diesels don't sound like diesels anymore.

OOPS, my bad. I missed the 4wd part.


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## wingnut (Mar 21, 2005)

Just a note, I had a 01 F150 supercrew and liked the truck. It towed the 23RS ok a little high in the RPM range tho. I swapped to a GMC 1500hd. I got the bigger brakes " which was the only real lacking part of the F150" and the bigger axles and the 6.0 big block and the 4 speed tranny. Most of the benefits you get with a 3/4 but still have the comfort and ride of a 1/2. It works for us and I guess that is what is important. As for knowing trucks, I build custom Kenworth and Volvo trucks for a living.


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## Hick24/7 (Nov 17, 2006)

Dodge Cummins or Dmax will last longer and pull better not to mention the fuel mileage advantage....

whats up with the people that like the Nissan Titan? the thing barely crawls up hills and gets terrible fuel mileage, don't waste your money buy a real truck.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Hi, Heres a link to my local dealer:Right Here

I know what the internet says, but around here crew cab 3/4 tons are hard to find with the 6.0, they all have the diesels or 8.1. You would have to go to the big cities to prolly find a 6.0. In Colorado with all the hills, they dont sell many 6.0's unless you buy a "work truck" model.

I know in the flatlands I'm sure its much easier to find the 6.0.

I bought my Dodge in Aug. and the difference was 8-10k on all the brands, 3/4 vs. 1/2. Like I said this is whats around here. I'm sure other places have different deals.

It seems like once at a dealer things change reguardless of what you hear or read.

If you order one, you will only get the mfr discounts and rarely will a dealer dicker there price on a special order. So you end up paying more for less truck. They deal on whats on the lot.

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Hick24/7 said:


> Dodge Cummins or Dmax will last longer and pull better not to mention the fuel mileage advantage....
> 
> whats up with the people that like the Nissan Titan? the thing barely crawls up hills and gets terrible fuel mileage, don't waste your money buy a real truck.


Go to a dealer and drive the big 3's 1/2 tons. Then go drive a Nissan. Youll see. Sorry, I know its totally un-american.. I've never owned an import. I'm with ya. But all I can say is go drive one... Hopefully the big 3 can keep up. Nissan has one downfall. It has too short of a bed.

Carey


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

When I was researching Tow Vehicles, weight limits, etc.. I came across an excellent post from VDUB that helped me greatly make my own personal TV decisions for me and my family. I do not know how to connect to another post on this site so I took the liberty to cut and paste here in it's entirety.

Additionally VDUB provided a link within the original post to a two part article "How to choose a Tow Vehicle" that proved very beneficial to me . Page 9 really helped me understand the relationship between GAWR, GCWR, GVWR and why towing a 21rs with my f150 actual numbers were too close for comfort *for me and Sherry.* I will try and paste that here as well in hopes it helps others joining this site trying to decide can I tow this TT with this TV.

*VDUB'S copied post begins here * It was posted on June 6

About a year ago, I was particularly active on the forum concerning subjects of weights and towing safety. Part of that was due to being angry at myself for stupidly buying a 5'er than could not be safely towed by my existing TV. The mistake cost me about $25k to rectify by upgrading to a new TV and I didn't want others to make that same mistake.

I researched and studied weight issues quite extensively and shared whatever knowledge I had gained with the forum. That certainly didn't make me an expert, however. After a while, some tagged me as the "weight police", which I believe is intended to be a derogatory moniker at best. So, like John, I decided to pretty much stay out of the fray and became silent on the subject. Nevertheless, I'll, once again, offer up my opinion and you can determine for yourself if you are towing safely.

Weight and towing safety seems to be a very passionate issue for most everyone. There seems to be two camps for arguements. The first camp is the weight police and the 2nd camp is, well, almost everyone else. It also seems to be true that the weight police are those people towing within spec and the others are those who may be fudging things a tad in one area or the other.

For myself (not preaching to anyone else), I have come up with these rules:

1) The weight specs for your vehicle are black and white and they can't be changed. Thou shalt not exceed any of your weight ratings, no matter what distance you are pulling. If you do exceed any of your weight ratings, then you have two choices; larger TV or smaller TT.

2) Speed kills. IMHO, anything over 60 mph when towing is bad, except in rare situations where you are on an obviously good road, it is fair weather and day time, and there aren't any other cars anywhere around you, i.e., the lonely roads going across the desert in the west. Even then, my speed does not exceed 65 mph.

3) You can't make an F-150 into an F-550. No amount of chips, springs, different tiers, different wheels, trans coolers, etc will change the fact that you still have an F-150. See rule #1.

Finally, 4) Never pull "at your limit". Give yourself a comfortable margin.

A collection of towing links here . No flames, please, and apologies to those whom I may have offended.

*The 2 part Tow Aarticle can be accessed here. *

http://www.wasem.com/rv/Weight101.htm


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Just for giggles I was checkin out Pueblo Dodge.com Thats were I bought my pu. They have 41 1/2 tons all 4x4. They have 35 3/4 ton 4x4's all have the cummins diesel. Not even e single one is gas.. Diesel or nothin!

My point.... There is a very LARGE price difference in the price of a 1/2 vs. 3/4. I know its a Colorado thing, but it makes for a VERY expensive pu purchase.

Carey


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## Scott and Jamie (Aug 27, 2006)

Back to the real subject. Yes the 5.3 will do fine pulling your 21rs. If you plan on upgrading your TT at a later point, then purchase a 3/4 ton and it will keep your future TT options open for a larger unit, plus you will have more power to go up the hills. Enjoy your Camping in your Outback!!!!

Scott


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

I agree, let's get back to the original subject (Pricing aside) . I suggest the original poster provide all the applicable figures, lets run them through the tow calculator. look at GAWR , GVWR, GCWR output and then make the determination one way or the other if they are within all "legal" tow/weight limits.

Side Note :

I sometimes wonder where those who offer advice to people asking ..can I tow ... will be after they state .. yes you can tow.. without actually helping the person work the true numbers to difinatively know. 
God forbid a new person takes advice from folks on this site only to have an accident , and run into insurance problems with their insurance refuseing to pay because they are found at fault for towing over legal limits. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. 
Regards,


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## bridge bandit (Apr 29, 2006)

Scooter
very good point - it's amazing what happens when people talk from their heart


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## Outback Bob (Nov 28, 2006)

NJMikeC said:


> Outback Bob,
> 
> The 3/4 Ton gas comes with quite a gas mileage penalty for someone such as yourself who will be doing a lot of other driving. Having said that you will find some limitations in the mountains with the 5.3L but they shouldn't be too bad at all.
> 
> ...


All good points- thanks for the info. As it turns out, after many hours on the internet, I bought (today) a Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi w/ MDS and a 393 rear end. Tow capacity is 9100 lbs. Thanks to the input of this forum, I spent as much as I could to enhance my safety margin. I'll share w/ the group how it does.........
Thanks again,
Bob


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Just for giggles I was checkin out Pueblo Dodge.com Thats were I bought my pu. They have 41 1/2 tons all 4x4. They have 35 3/4 ton 4x4's all have the cummins diesel. Not even e single one is gas.. Diesel or nothin!
> 
> My point.... There is a very LARGE price difference in the price of a 1/2 vs. 3/4. I know its a Colorado thing, but it makes for a VERY expensive pu purchase.
> 
> Carey


I agree with everything you are saying Carey, I'm not going to spend the over priced amount they want for a Diesel when I don't need one. I have been told more than once that unless you are a full time RV'er you wont get past the break even point of a diesel. You can buy a lot of gas for the price of a diesel. We have the same problem here, every 3/4 ton or larger truck has a diesel in it, you have to special order a good old gas truck if you want one.

I worked with a guy who bought a 18' TT and got caught up in the bigger is better for a TV. He started out with a large SUV bought a 3/4 ton truck but that was not good enough so bought a 1 ton diesel. Well he one of those drivers who had a lead foot and wanted a rig that would beat everyone up the hill. He got his wish but while racing to the top of a long grade on the way to the coast he crested the hill and found himself in a sharp turn, needless to say he didn't make the turn. He described it as total chaos, he said he slammed on the brakes as he was heading into the curve and his rear end started bouncing and he has no control at all. Well his insurance bought him a new truck and TT but his DW will no longer go with him so he sold the TT. So how fast do you really need to go up a hill?

I for one don't go over 55 mph max. that is the speed limit in CA and it is good enough for me. I'm not in a race, I don't come close to hitting my TT limit, I really don't need that much stuff. I use a turnout every time someone gets behind me. Now if I had unlimitted funds I would have a big 1 ton diesel too, well maybe.


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

> All good points- thanks for the info. As it turns out, after many hours on the internet, I bought (today) a Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi w/ MDS and a 393 rear end. Tow capacity is 9100 lbs. Thanks to the input of this forum, I spent as much as I could to enhance my safety margin. I'll share w/ the group how it does.........
> Thanks again,
> Bob


*Bob,

Glad you were able to make your choice, good luck with the new TV and happy camping







. As you can see from this forum folks take alot of pride in their vehicles!*


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## Hick24/7 (Nov 17, 2006)

Go to a dealer and drive the big 3's 1/2 tons. Then go drive a Nissan. Youll see. Sorry, I know its totally un-american.. I've never owned an import. I'm with ya. But all I can say is go drive one... Hopefully the big 3 can keep up. Nissan has one downfall. It has too short of a bed.

Carey
[/quote]

I still question the Â½ ton purchase when someone wants to pull a load. Putting an motor and chassis close to its max weight capacity will wear it out not to mention get next to nothing for fuel mileage. Tell me if I am wrong but the Titan is one of the worst gas hogs out there for its class without a load so putting a load on will just make it worse. The price you pay for the one of the American 3/4 ton diesel trucks is well spent if you plan on keeping it long term. How many gas motors do you see with 200,000 + miles that can still pull a load up a grade? I wonder if that is why all the semi trucks are diesel? I canâ€™t find a website showing the Â½ ton Titan (or any other Â½ ton) pulling a load like this. 
http://media.concealedcarryforum.com/kc.wmv
Sure this truck has had some kick added but you are not pulling a sled on the street.
http://media.concealedcarryforum.com/f350c.wmv
enough said?


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Outback Bob said:


> Outback Bob,
> 
> The 3/4 Ton gas comes with quite a gas mileage penalty for someone such as yourself who will be doing a lot of other driving. Having said that you will find some limitations in the mountains with the 5.3L but they shouldn't be too bad at all.
> 
> ...


All good points- thanks for the info. As it turns out, after many hours on the internet, I bought (today) a Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi w/ MDS and a 393 rear end. Tow capacity is 9100 lbs. Thanks to the input of this forum, I spent as much as I could to enhance my safety margin. I'll share w/ the group how it does.........
Thanks again,
Bob
[/quote]

Bob, Congrats on the truck!!! You'll love it. The funnest part.... Haven't lost a race yet. It sure is a fast lil truck. Its great to have a towing vehicle that is also very fun to drive and sporty... Dont get a ticket ok!
It will tow that 21 very easy. Mine sure tows mine easy and it weighs about 66-6800 lbs loaded with the bikes and all. The price is why I bought mine. Got a great deal on it. Couldnt pass it up..

Does it have the 20' wheels? Is it a standard cab or crew? 4x4 or 4x2? Mine has the big horn package, so it came with Sirius Radio. That sure is a cool feature. Anyhow, have fun with it!!

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

N7OQ said:


> Just for giggles I was checkin out Pueblo Dodge.com Thats were I bought my pu. They have 41 1/2 tons all 4x4. They have 35 3/4 ton 4x4's all have the cummins diesel. Not even e single one is gas.. Diesel or nothin!
> 
> My point.... There is a very LARGE price difference in the price of a 1/2 vs. 3/4. I know its a Colorado thing, but it makes for a VERY expensive pu purchase.
> 
> Carey


I agree with everything you are saying Carey, I'm not going to spend the over priced amount they want for a Diesel when I don't need one. I have been told more than once that unless you are a full time RV'er you wont get past the break even point of a diesel. You can buy a lot of gas for the price of a diesel. We have the same problem here, every 3/4 ton or larger truck has a diesel in it, you have to special order a good old gas truck if you want one.

I worked with a guy who bought a 18' TT and got caught up in the bigger is better for a TV. He started out with a large SUV bought a 3/4 ton truck but that was not good enough so bought a 1 ton diesel. Well he one of those drivers who had a lead foot and wanted a rig that would beat everyone up the hill. He got his wish but while racing to the top of a long grade on the way to the coast he crested the hill and found himself in a sharp turn, needless to say he didn't make the turn. He described it as total chaos, he said he slammed on the brakes as he was heading into the curve and his rear end started bouncing and he has no control at all. Well his insurance bought him a new truck and TT but his DW will no longer go with him so he sold the TT. So how fast do you really need to go up a hill?

I for one don't go over 55 mph max. that is the speed limit in CA and it is good enough for me. I'm not in a race, I don't come close to hitting my TT limit, I really don't need that much stuff. I use a turnout every time someone gets behind me. Now if I had unlimitted funds I would have a big 1 ton diesel too, well maybe.
[/quote]

Agreed Bill... I only drive a max of 60 mph when towing my lil trailer... My gross is around 13000 lbs...

Funny thing is I drive my 80000 lb semi at 75 mph and do it easilly with liltterly one finger if you want.

I have seen many travel trailer wrecks over the years. It doesnt matter what truck and travel trailer you have.. It is a very unstable set-up. So I respect that.

A semi is designed to cruise down the highway at 75. A pickup/suv with travel trailer is designed to go down the highway at 55-60 MAXIMUM. If you go over that, you are risking it. Doesnt matter how big your lil pu is. Your riskin it.. If you have a class 6 and up..... Drive as fast as you want.. Simple as that!

Thanks for all your input here Bill. Its been a fun few days of posting here on this subject.

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Hey Bob, Heres a website about our HEMI's.. Has lots of info and a forum too.

The HEMI truck club

Carey


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## Rubrhammer (Nov 27, 2006)

Enjoy the rig Bob. Always like the experience of a new vehical.


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## Outback Bob (Nov 28, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Outback Bob,
> 
> The 3/4 Ton gas comes with quite a gas mileage penalty for someone such as yourself who will be doing a lot of other driving. Having said that you will find some limitations in the mountains with the 5.3L but they shouldn't be too bad at all.
> 
> ...


All good points- thanks for the info. As it turns out, after many hours on the internet, I bought (today) a Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi w/ MDS and a 393 rear end. Tow capacity is 9100 lbs. Thanks to the input of this forum, I spent as much as I could to enhance my safety margin. I'll share w/ the group how it does.........
Thanks again,
Bob
[/quote]

Bob, Congrats on the truck!!! You'll love it. The funnest part.... Haven't lost a race yet. It sure is a fast lil truck. Its great to have a towing vehicle that is also very fun to drive and sporty... Dont get a ticket ok!
It will tow that 21 very easy. Mine sure tows mine easy and it weighs about 66-6800 lbs loaded with the bikes and all. The price is why I bought mine. Got a great deal on it. Couldnt pass it up..

Does it have the 20' wheels? Is it a standard cab or crew? 4x4 or 4x2? Mine has the big horn package, so it came with Sirius Radio. That sure is a cool feature. Anyhow, have fun with it!!

Carey








[/quote]

Carey,
It's a Laramie package w/ 20'wheels My cousin is a 30 year Dodge employee (works on the robots at the truck plant). I got the employee price, plus $7,000 off in "dealers cash" (a new incentive just announced last Saturday). I paid $24,800 before taxes. I love this truck!

Another question for you. How does 20" rims affect your tow capacity? I 've heard that these larger rims shave 100lb's from your capacity. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Bob


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Wow Bob, Smokin deal! I do believe your right about the wheels. I think it may be more than that. I say who cares! They look too cool to put somethin else on it. I know the 20 inch tires cost more to replace also, about 200 a tire. There are some better deals out there thru like tire rack.com. But again, I think its worth it for the look.

I paid 22k for mine, That was back in August. They had emplyee price plus a 5k rebate. And then I worked the heck out of the dealer to get him down to that. Mine is a SLT though. Next below the Laramie model. Has about everything except leather, dual climate control, and electric pedels, and those are no biggie for us.

I love the new dash and headlights on these trucks. The headlights seem to really work well. We have about 4500 miles on it now, and havent had a problem yet.

When you do an oil change, make sure you get whats called for it.. 5w20, that sure seems like thin oil, but thats whats they call for it, so I guess all is good.

My wife mostly drives it, She LOVES IT. So about the only time I drive it is on weekends. They sure are fast lil p/u's. I think for the price, nothing can beat em.

Let us all know how things work out with your set-up. I have enjoyed being involved in your post. I think its cool you ended up getting Hemified! I think they are the best small gas pullers anyway, but will never knock someones choices based on brand. The Nissan ride, fit and finish is second to none, but I think a hemi will still outpull Nissan. This truck will flat leave any Chevy or Ford in the dust. I can tell you that from experience. They will all try to race you, happens all the time. So have a lil fun there, ok!

Cheers to you Bob!

Carey


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## shaela21 (Aug 16, 2005)

You will be more then fine. I tow that trailer with that truck, and leaving Victoria, BC Canada to go up Island we need to cross over a mountain to go anywhere. That truck in drive does not even hesitate. I know that you will be fine, even with the trailer loaded right up. Go camping and have fun.


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## bridge bandit (Apr 29, 2006)

Bob
The 20 inch tires does reduce the towing capacity of the truck -when we were looking at the dodge the one we were looking at had the 20 inch wheels and we asked about another 1500 series truck on the lot with smaller tires bec we wanted it for towing.


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