# 2011 Diesel (Ford, Chevy, Dodge)



## RWRiley (Oct 21, 2009)

My Chevy dealer just told me all new Oil Burners for 2011 will be equipped with Urea injection.

According to him you get 1000 mpg (of Urea), $8 gallon, and a 5 gallon tank. And it won't let you run without it.










Has anyone heard the same ?

Rich


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## gzaleski (Aug 29, 2009)

Yes, they all are required now by the EPA. They use Selective Catalytic Reduction systems or SCR's. The SCR catalyst reacts (when hot from engine exhaust) with the urea ( a form of ammonia) and reduces the NOx from the exhaust. It is actually for reducing the smog.

glen...


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Can't speak to the Chevy's, but the Fords will give you plenty of warning that it is low. It is filled through a filler right next to the fuel cap under the same door. I also hear it easily makes it between oil changes. Some of the Semi's are complaining about filling Urea every other fillup, but as I said, I hear the Ford's are just needing it at oil changes.


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## RWRiley (Oct 21, 2009)

According to my Chevy Dealer the bow-ties will give warning also. When it gets to a certain level, it drops your max speed to 45, then 2 mph when you get critically low. A 5 gal tank would give you 5000 miles - so I'm guessing you could fill it up at oil change - depending on how often you change your oil. If his $$ are right your oil change will cost you an extra $30-$40.

All things considered - glad I order a 2011 gasser. Maybe my tone will change when I'm trying to pull 13,000 lbs up hill into a headwind.


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## battalionchief3 (Jun 27, 2006)

Yup thats right. Its better then having 4 radiators to cool exhaust gas and 80% egr and like 50,000 psi of injector pressure....International is insane. For now, urea is the way to go from what I have read.


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## CautiousCamper (Jun 27, 2006)

And for those in northern climates, Urea freezes not too far below 32 deg F so GM has installed a heating coil so that the urea doesn't freeze. Sounds like something else to go wrong. That's part reason why I picked up a 2010.


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## RWRiley (Oct 21, 2009)

Yep - When heard the news I was thinking about all those guys that bought Oil burners in 2010. I bet they are pretty happy right now !!


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

RWRiley said:


> My Chevy dealer just told me all new Oil Burners for 2011 will be equipped with Urea injection.
> 
> According to him you get 1000 mpg (of Urea), $8 gallon, and a 5 gallon tank. And it won't let you run without it.
> 
> ...


The Dodge 2500 and 3500 models do not have Urea injection systems. Dodge/Cummins met the new emissions standards starting in 2007 and have made no major changes to their system since then. There were some problems early on but they've made changes to the engine control software and a few hardware changes that seem to keep things working properly. It will be interesting to see how the new Urea systems work in real world use on the new Chevys and Fords.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

MJRey said:


> The Dodge 2500 and 3500 models do not have Urea injection systems. Dodge/Cummins met the new emissions standards starting in 2007 and have made no major changes to their system since then. There were some problems early on but they've made changes to the engine control software and a few hardware changes that seem to keep things working properly. It will be interesting to see how the new Urea systems work in real world use on the new Chevys and Fords.


Just wait....

Dodge has been exceeding the emission regulations for a number of years with the new Cummins. This allowed them to build up pollution credits. They are now burning their credits as they don't quite meet the 2011 regs. They will have a couple years before they have to improve their emissions to the 2011 regs. I'm hearing they will be adding a SCR system (uses urea) when they run out of credits.

(Ford's 6.4L also exceeded the federal regs, but they used their credits to be able to keep selling the 6.0L Diesel in the Econoline vans for a few more years... )


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## OutbackPM (Sep 14, 2005)

RWRiley said:


> Yep - When heard the news I was thinking about all those guys that bought Oil burners in 2010. I bet they are pretty happy right now !!


I'm happy I have a 2006 before all the elaborate exhaust treatments came out. The EGR is bad enough.


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

All this makes me happy that our truck is an '06. It stays in the garage unless it's towing the fiver. It has only 34k miles on it and is over-maintained. We plan to keep it for many, many, many years. phillip


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Nathan said:


> The Dodge 2500 and 3500 models do not have Urea injection systems. Dodge/Cummins met the new emissions standards starting in 2007 and have made no major changes to their system since then. There were some problems early on but they've made changes to the engine control software and a few hardware changes that seem to keep things working properly. It will be interesting to see how the new Urea systems work in real world use on the new Chevys and Fords.


Just wait....

Dodge has been exceeding the emission regulations for a number of years with the new Cummins. This allowed them to build up pollution credits. They are now burning their credits as they don't quite meet the 2011 regs. They will have a couple years before they have to improve their emissions to the 2011 regs. I'm hearing they will be adding a SCR system (uses urea) when they run out of credits.

(Ford's 6.4L also exceeded the federal regs, but they used their credits to be able to keep selling the 6.0L Diesel in the Econoline vans for a few more years... )
[/quote]

This is a true fact. Dodge is using SCR in the 4500/5500 work trucks. They are rated for less hp, 305 hp. They are basically using these trucks as testers and to get the bugs worked out before they switch to scr in the more common trucks.

You guys think youve got it made by not using this stuff... You are totally wrong.

Your present 07-10 engines use extreme amounts of EGR. This will make your engine have a short life. The SCR gets the EGR back to an acceptable level inside of the engine. So, now the engine will have about the same EGR as 2003 to 2006 models. They will once again live long happy lives..

I am looking way forward to SCR. So are all the bigger trucks.

All of the guys who run the 07-10 trucks have put delete kits in there trucks to get rid of the EGR system. Yes a 10000 fine but most feel its worth the risk. As long as your sneaky it can be done and never look like it. Most private use type trucks are traded way before things become a problem, so it really makes no difference to most people. People who keep the trucks till the wheels fall off will find that long before the wheels fall off, they have a high enough repair bill that they may as well just buy a new truck.

I say bring on the new technology.. Its gonna be our savior to the life of our diesels. Kuddos to the engineers!

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

RWRiley said:


> My Chevy dealer just told me all new Oil Burners for 2011 will be equipped with Urea injection.
> 
> According to him you get 1000 mpg (of Urea), $8 gallon, and a 5 gallon tank. And it won't let you run without it.
> 
> ...


By the time the SCR gets rolling the fluid will become much cheaper less than 1/2 of what you were quoted.

It will make it down to 2-3 bucks a gallon eventually. A none issue..


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

AND until dodge decides to go with the new SCR in there trucks they will be the low powered leader. Yes the new Geo compared to fords and chevs. Dodge is being conservative which is cool, plus they got credits. May as well let the others get people use to it and rely on the proven ability of the cummins history to continue to sell trucks. But Id sure rather have an SCR cummins compared to an EGR cummins.

The new chevs and fords will leave em in the dust as far as power. The SCR frees up about 20% more power capability legally. No they wont use all of that. So if you own an EGR truck take a bow to the new SCR trucks, they will tromp ya..

Yes you can put all sorts of power adders on your EGR trucks, but say good bye to a warranty.

The SCR trucks will make the same power as a chipped previous truck and still have a warranty..

Way to many positives that outweigh a few bucks for fluid every now and then.

Dont listen to the salesman at the dealer. Until the SCR is here its the worst thing ever. Then when its here everything else is the worst.

How do you think those boys sell trucks?

Carey


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Here's a thread over at The Diesel Stop regarding DEF Fluid including a lot of specifics:
Motorcraft DEF


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Don't believe the hype that the urea injection trucks will be better then the 07 to 10 trucks it will in fact be worse. You will still have the particulate filter plus the urea injection system. I heard that the urea tank will be 15 gallons and you will most likely have to have it filled every 2 to 4 tanks of diesel at $8 a gallon now and most likely will never go below $5. I also heard the whole system will add more than a 1000 lbs of weight to the truck taking it away from your tow capacity. Any time the government make you add more pollution control systems it is never better for the truck. The government is also debating on weather you will be allowed to fill your own Urea tanks, they want it only filled by a dealer. Also if you run out of urea you will have to disconnect your trailer and limp into a dealer to get more. The new trucks will cost more to buy and cost more to run and will not last as long. I also heard that the production of urea produces more pollution than what the the the trucks would have put out. It all boils down to the Government want to control every aspect of your life.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Well Bill everything you hear is wrong.

SCR is the greatest thing to help with diesel emissions since the diesel engine has been invented.

If you read Nathans link, the price will be around 3 dollars a gallon once this gets rolling. The Urea tank will hold 5-6 gallons and need filled each oil change. So 20 bucks to save the engine and have more power every oil change... Bring it on!

Urea is already available for 3 bucks a gallon at truck stops Bill. The truck will give you fair warning if it is getting low. Yes you will have 1000 miles of warning... No Biggie!

The weight is also another myth. Motor trend just done a test on the new 2011 F250 and the new 2010 non SCR dodge 2500. http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/trucks/1006_2011_ford_f250_2010_ram_2500_comparison/specs.html

Dodge curb weight. 7410 lbs. GVW 9600. The dodge can carry 2190 lbs. Max towing is 12600 lbs.

Ford with SCR weighs 7910. GVW 10000. Ford can carry 2090. Max towing is 15700 lbs.

Ford trucks have always been heavier than dodges. Fords have always weighed more than 75-7600 lbs.

But yes, the SCR system weighs maybe an extra 100 lbs.

Many places sell UREA. Anyone can buy it. Anyone can fill there own tank.

Bill your truck uses 50% EGR. An SCR truck uses 20%, same as any diesel made from 2003-2006. Its been well proven that a 20% mix of EGR will not hurt a diesel, but anymore does.

The SCR truck makes less polution because it is being treated with SCR and DPF. The DPF will be able to last much longer and have to deal with less soot, since soot is a biproduct of EGR.

SCR is the greatest thing to happen for american diesels ever. The european diesels have been treated with SCR for years Bill. Its not new technology.

Carey


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Well you can beleive anything you want Carey the dealers are counting on it.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Yes and so can you. But remember. I live on the road and and also live on my cb. I have a ranger rci http://www.premiere-electronics.net/store/rci6900f25.html with an astatic antenea, and an astatic mic. It does a very nice job of getting out there and bringing it in. Ive owned this combo over 10 years and my radio has well over 1 million miles on it. And no I dont plan on getting a FFC License. 90% of us have radios like this and none of us are licensed. I figured Id give ya something more to get you ruffled, Bill. lol.. Just having fun Bill.

So I get to here about many stories people are having with DPF trucks, both commercial and private. I can tell you there are more newer semis stuck on the side of the road from emission problems than there ever will be from running out of urea.

I dont need to believe anything. I see the problems in real life. In the last year or so major trucking companies quit buying DPF trucks in anticipation for the newer much more efficient SCR trucks.

They are having trouble getting 5.5 mpg with many of the current trucks. The new SCR trucks will avg 7 mpg. They drive 130,000 miles a year avg. Do the math.. Thats like a 25000 dollar a year savings.

Our pickups are no different. There will be a substancial improvement in fuel mpg. With fuel prices up where they are, its a much bigger deal than it used to ne.

Its well proven that EGR/DPF isnt the best way to deal with emissions. SCR is a step forward, not back. Its time to once again look forward to new automotive technology. For the past few years weve had to worry and not welcome what was coming out. Now we can once again look forward.

Carey


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

I find all of this very interesting. Our plans are to purchase a new truck in 2017 for our retirement travels. I can only imagine what the rules and regs will be by then. In the meantime, we will be keeping the '06 Ram ctd. phillip


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

jdpm said:


> I find all of this very interesting. Our plans are to purchase a new truck in 2017 for our retirement travels. I can only imagine what the rules and regs will be by then. In the meantime, we will be keeping the '06 Ram ctd. phillip


Thats a pretty good truck. Got one also. Our engines use in cylinder EGR. Its done with a 3rd injector pulse and cam timing. It creates a 18-20% mix of EGR for the coming intake stroke. Got 320k on my cummins. Begins to use some oil after 10000 miles. Its always done that. lol Change oil at 15k when I use Dino and 20k when I use synthetic. Just letting you know your truck will make it to 2017 no problem..







I agree it will be very interesting to see whats in store for us by then. Looking forward to it. We are finally thru what was equal to the 70's in gas engines and emission changes with the EGR/DPF diesel engines.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

N7OQ said:


> Don't believe the hype that the urea injection trucks will be better then the 07 to 10 trucks it will in fact be worse. You will still have the particulate filter plus the urea injection system. I heard that the urea tank will be 15 gallons and you will most likely have to have it filled every 2 to 4 tanks of diesel at $8 a gallon now and most likely will never go below $5. I also heard the whole system will add more than a 1000 lbs of weight to the truck taking it away from your tow capacity. Any time the government make you add more pollution control systems it is never better for the truck. The government is also debating on weather you will be allowed to fill your own Urea tanks, they want it only filled by a dealer. Also if you run out of urea you will have to disconnect your trailer and limp into a dealer to get more. The new trucks will cost more to buy and cost more to run and will not last as long. I also heard that the production of urea produces more pollution than what the the the trucks would have put out. It all boils down to the Government want to control every aspect of your life.


*LOL*

My order has been and has been pulled!!! I Can't wait for my Higher Hp, Higher Torque, More Fuel Efficient 2011 Twin Turbo Silverado!! And Price is the same as a 2010 (Ford is holding pricing as well)

Govt already owns us all LOL. I use my electronic toll (Ez Tag here) my cell phone with GPS, and the internet..........they can trace my every step already!!!

Things change, that's life







there was skepticism of Henry Ford way back when as well, LOL, but we moved past the horse and buggy







, even have water and indoor toilets


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

clarkely said:


> *LOL*
> 
> My order has been and has been pulled!!! I Can't wait for my Higher Hp, Higher Torque, More Fuel Efficient 2011 Twin Turbo Silverado!! And Price is the same as a 2010 (Ford is holding pricing as well)
> 
> ...


So what happens to the Burb? You keepin it?


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Wow, there's still a lot of "I hear" and "I think" about the 2011 trucks. If you want the facts on the Fords, go down to your local dealer. They are in stock.

Start it up and take a test drive. THEN come back and let us know what you think.....


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

clarkely said:


> Don't believe the hype that the urea injection trucks will be better then the 07 to 10 trucks it will in fact be worse. You will still have the particulate filter plus the urea injection system. I heard that the urea tank will be 15 gallons and you will most likely have to have it filled every 2 to 4 tanks of diesel at $8 a gallon now and most likely will never go below $5. I also heard the whole system will add more than a 1000 lbs of weight to the truck taking it away from your tow capacity. Any time the government make you add more pollution control systems it is never better for the truck. The government is also debating on weather you will be allowed to fill your own Urea tanks, they want it only filled by a dealer. Also if you run out of urea you will have to disconnect your trailer and limp into a dealer to get more. The new trucks will cost more to buy and cost more to run and will not last as long. I also heard that the production of urea produces more pollution than what the the the trucks would have put out. It all boils down to the Government want to control every aspect of your life.


*LOL*

My order has been and has been pulled!!! I Can't wait for my Higher Hp, Higher Torque, More Fuel Efficient 2011 Twin Turbo Silverado!! And Price is the same as a 2010 (Ford is holding pricing as well)

Govt already owns us all LOL. I use my electronic toll (Ez Tag here) my cell phone with GPS, and the internet..........they can trace my every step already!!!

Things change, that's life







there was skepticism of Henry Ford way back when as well, LOL, but we moved past the horse and buggy







, even have water and indoor toilets








[/quote]

Boy good point Clarke. Does the new dmax have twin turbos? I havent read any storys about them yet. I schooled myself using european based websites about a year ago about Urea and SCR. I havent kept up on what GM is going to be doing.

Are there any hints what kind of power the Duramax will have?

Carey


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

The 2011 Duramax is going to be rated at 397/765. Check-out this link:

http://www.chevrolet.com/pages/open/default/future/silveradohd.do

phillip


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

jdpm said:


> The 2011 Duramax is going to be rated at 397/765. Check-out this link:
> 
> http://www.chevrolet.com/pages/open/default/future/silveradohd.do
> 
> phillip


Thanks! The power war is on again. With these torque numbers we are halfway to what semis make. These new trucks will sure be fun to drive. These trucks will feel like the new hot rod gas 1/2 tons empty.

My truck is such a slow winder, these guys are gonna make me feel like Im in a grandpa rig, lol

Carey


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> The 2011 Duramax is going to be rated at 397/765. Check-out this link:
> 
> http://www.chevrolet.com/pages/open/default/future/silveradohd.do
> 
> phillip


Thanks! The power war is on again. With these torque numbers we are halfway to what semis make. These new trucks will sure be fun to drive. These trucks will feel like the new hot rod gas 1/2 tons empty.

My truck is such a slow winder, these guys are gonna make me feel like Im in a grandpa rig, lol

Carey
[/quote]

Yep, the new truck feel like a gasser on tip in with great throttle response. Of course the torque keeps building and you'd better hang on.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Nathan said:


> Yep, the new truck feel like a gasser on tip in with great throttle response.


Stop!!! I can't hardly wait for delivery now as it is!! Every time i hook up the camper between now and delivery i am going to be getting "antsy" for the New Unleashed Beast!!


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

clarkely said:


> Yep, the new truck feel like a gasser on tip in with great throttle response.


Stop!!! I can't hardly wait for delivery now as it is!! Every time i hook up the camper between now and delivery i am going to be getting "antsy" for the New Unleashed Beast!!
[/quote]
Hey now, I haven't been allowed to drive the new GM..... For some reason when I stopped by to see the test vehicles, my Badge didn't work....


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

rsm7 said:


> Hey now, I haven't been allowed to drive the new GM..... For some reason when I stopped by to see the test vehicles, my Badge didn't work....


You probably would not have been able to hold on any how


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## RWRiley (Oct 21, 2009)

clarkely said:


> So what happens to the Burb? You keepin it?


I wish!!! I suggested my wife take it as her daily driver, then we would have two capable tow vehicles









She says its to big, and she hates driving it, scared to get a scratch on "my Baby", i told her it would be her baby and we could get push bars to protect it LOL

I cant convince her









[/quote]

Same conversation with my wife. 2011 Gasser is on order, but I'm keeping the '97 Tahoe. It's been a great truck and I can't stand to 'give' it the dealer. He wouldn't give me much for it anyway.


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

I suspect Dodge will catch-up to the other 2 by 2012:

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/11/ram-light-and-heavy-duty-pickups-to-receive-major-modifications-in-2012.html

also, from allpar.com The Cummins straight-six diesel is still planned for future Rams, and the 2.8-liter VM diesel still has a future in export Jeeps. Fiat diesels will power some Chrysler vehicles, at least in export markets, hooked up to the six-speed Chrysler automatic transmission. The 4.2 liter Cummins V6 (190 hp, over 400 lb-ft) and a 5.0-liter Cummins V8 diesel are believed to still be in progress, but lower priority due to low gas prices. 
An eight-speed automatic is been developed within Chrysler for the big Cummins diesels, which are limited in power to avoid powertrain damage. They can reportedly be pumped up 900 lb-ft, given the right powertrain; the eight-speed automatic would allow for over 700 lb-ft of torque but at a fairly hefty price premium.

phillip


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

So, Nathan.... The Scorpion has been out for a little while, whats the scuttle-butt? Any problems emerging?







Any last minute tweaks on the assembly line?

signed, anxious in Massachusetts....


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> So, Nathan.... The Scorpion has been out for a little while, whats the scuttle-butt? Any problems emerging?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I spend more time focusing on engines that consume Gasoline.... The 5.0L in the Mustang just launched... everyone should try and drive one of those....









I can tell you that anytime you bolt literally 1,000's of pieces together for the first time it is tough. That's life, and the reason it takes so long to get things into production. The customers/media are always impatient as you are launching something, but what get's you best in class quality is taking the time to find every issue prior to beginning sales. What you should worry about is the company that doesn't do that last minute tweak.....


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## TexanThompsons (Apr 21, 2009)

Nathan said:


> So, Nathan.... The Scorpion has been out for a little while, whats the scuttle-butt? Any problems emerging?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I spend more time focusing on engines that consume Gasoline.... The 5.0L in the Mustang just launched... everyone should try and drive one of those....









I can tell you that anytime you bolt literally 1,000's of pieces together for the first time it is tough. That's life, and the reason it takes so long to get things into production. The customers/media are always impatient as you are launching something, but what get's you best in class quality is taking the time to find every issue prior to beginning sales. What you should worry about is the company that doesn't do that last minute tweak.....








[/quote]

Well said. Are you sure you're in engineering and not marketing?


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