# 28' Outback Rollover - Advise Request



## hurricaneplumber (Apr 12, 2004)

Did anyone else read this Outback disaster....besides CamperAndy

I just rolled a 28' Outback while driving down an approx. 5% grade on I-80. I was in the slow lane driving less than 60 mph. The trailer began to fishtail. I occupied 2 lanes in trying to control the trailer. Reached for brake controller, couldn't find brake lever (just replaced controller and lever was in a different location). When I thought I got it under control I looked back and found my trailer on its' side. My Yukon XL back tires were 18" in the air with the trailer on its' side. (We're all ok)

Crashed the Outback

Always be safe!


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Yikes! Thank God everyone was OK. Hope and pray that never happens to me and mine!

Mark


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Seems like everyone and their brother has/knows an opinion.

I still think knowing what your TV is capable of, and what you are actually towing, are the 2 main factors.

Steve


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## Grunt0311 (Aug 23, 2005)

Glad to hear everyone is fine!

Just my two cents, but I generally do not like to pull a trailer with the water tank full. The reason being, 40 gallons of water is a lot of weight, and if that gets sloshing around it can really throw off the balance and center of gravity of your trailer. I would advise bringing a couple of gallon jugs and filling up when you get to your destination, or close to it. Once again, glad nobody got hurt (except the outback







)


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## CamperDC (Oct 30, 2003)

This should be a reminder to us all to be comfortable with where the brake controller is and how to manually apply the trailer brakes. My guess is that if he could have applied the brakes and accelerated a bit he could have pulled out of it.


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## CJ999 (Aug 11, 2005)

He never really says that he got his hand on the brake controller...

It also seems kind of easy to see how the short wheelbase of a Yukon could be overwhelmed by a 28' Outback in a messy situation.

I avoid towing mine with full water tanks at all costs when I go over the Sierra... just too twisty and steep. I don't need water sloshing on top of that.

He says his water tank is behind the rear axel. Is this correct?


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

CJ999 said:


> It also seems kind of easy to see how the short wheelbase of a Yukon could be overwhelmed by a 28' Outback in a messy situation.
> [snapback]55333[/snapback]​


From what I gathered, he was towing with a Yukon XL...the GMC version of the Suburban.

Is there much wheelbase variance from a 'burb to a Silverado??? Seems like the only difference would be if it was an 8 ft bed Silverado. I imagine weight would be heavier on the 'burb.

Steve


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## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

Take it from me, you can get into trouble quick pulling a trailer- before you know it, its all armpits and elbows as you try to get straight again. The best advise is to set up your equipment as well as possible and then take everything as slow and steady as you can.

What caused it? Its impossible to say from a message board posting on a website- there's just too much speculation and not enough data. The best any of us could do is guess. Glad to hear that nobody was hurt; there's always insurance for the trailer.

Kevin P.


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## Sidewinder (Feb 25, 2005)

I wonder if the spring problem that 1stTimeAround just got fixed could have play a role in this. A Yukon XL should be enough tow vehicle for a 28BHS and a FULL tank of water by definition will not slosh. There is something else going on here.

Sidewinder


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

> There is something else going on here.


Unfortunately, we'll probably never know what.

Mark


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## Scrib (Jun 28, 2005)

Saw the same thing a couple weeks ago on I-5, South of Salem, OR. It was an Expedition towing a 28-30' trailer - couldn't make out the brand, as the trailer was sitting on its side. I gotta believe these are a combination of all kinds of factors; marginal TV's, bad setups, speeding, wind, etc.


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

Could panic have contributed?

Reverie


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

Scrib said:


> Saw the same thing a couple weeks ago on I-5, South of Salem, OR. It was an Expedition towing a 28-30' trailer - couldn't make out the brand, as the trailer was sitting on its side. I gotta believe these are a combination of all kinds of factors; marginal TV's, bad setups, speeding, wind, etc.
> [snapback]55351[/snapback]​


Or just a driver that didn't know what to do. Maybe he was going to fast for the conditions? Maybe he jerked the wheel trying to get the sway to stop? There are too many things that could have or not have been done to stop the accident.

Steve as for your wheelbase question: (Shortest to longest)
Tahoe/Yukon 116"
Silverado reg cab short bed 119"
Suburban/Yukon XL/Avalanche 130"
Silverado reg cab long bed 133"
Silverado ext cab short bed/1500 crew (LD) 143.5"
Silverado crew cab short bed (1500HD/2500) 153"
Silverado ext cab long bed 157.5"
Silverado crew cab long bed 167"

Gary


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

THIS does not sound like alot of fun!









As was said earlier, everyone has an opinion, and mine - whatever other factors were involved - has to fall squarely on the TV vs TT wheelbase equation. I just can't see a Yukon being big enough to tow a 30 foot trailer. We pull the same length Outback with a 140" wheelbase TV, and while it does fine, I wouldn't want to pull it with much less!









I know, I know, alot of you out there are doing just that, and I don't mean to offend anyone, but to everyone who says 'I pull mine with a short wheelbase TV, and have never had a problem', please bear in mind that this guy probably always said the same thing... Right up until that moment he looked in his rear view mirror!









So many forces come into play when we are pulling our beloved toys around that we have no control over, let's make sure we are up to snuf on the things we can control.

OK, stepping off the soap box now.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Yukon XL is another name for Suburban....same size truck

Interesting reading with many unknowns. What interested me is he did not feel the trailer flip, he noticed it in his mirror.

John


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## Pee Wee (May 31, 2005)

I think this thread just cost me 3k for the hensley next year!!! You don't have to trevel thousands of miles to justify the expence, it can happen ANY time. I have the same set up as PDX-Doug. He's right it dose fine, but I can fell it push nd wiggle the truck from time to time

Pee Wee


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Get it to a scale and weigh it! That's all I think needs to be said. I think we can all assume that the trailer weighed a bit more then 6000#. The water alone, if he was full like he claims is 374#. And as we have all found out, our Outbacks weigh just a tiny bit (read that "alot") more than what Keystone claims, especially after we get them loaded.

I also share someone else's opinion in that a single friction bar was inadequet sway control for this rig. A Hensley is definately the answer, and is on my wish list, just as soon as I can find the extra $3000. Until then, that Reese DCHP will have to do the job, and it is doing it.

Tim

PS At least we have continued to up hold the Outbacker creed, and our replies to the same post have been just a little less harsh then some of the posts over at the "other" net.

Tim


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

He made no mention of what type of equalizer or WD or Sway he was using ... so the first contributing factor may be the hitch setup..

the second was that he admited that he was going down a 5% slope at 60 mph -- to me -- thats to fast for a Yukon towing a 28...

third was that he was not familiar with his equipment -- he could not find he brake controller and even if he did if it was not a prodigy then it would have been little use...

so controbuting facotrs in my opinion would have been speed-driver inexperience-road ...

--

finally - I would be very leary of any OUTBACKS you see in the next two weeks on Ebay with the words "Almost new - some scratching on side" .. haha


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## outbackgeorgia (Jan 28, 2004)

Interesting thread, lots of missing info and speculation!
Here in the Atlanta area we have semi rollovers WEEKLY, in daylight, good weather or bad!
Does this mean that semis are inherently unsafe?
I don't think so.
Operator error? Probably.
Same with TT's.
All the advice on this forum seems more sensible that elsewhere....keep up the good work!
If in doubt, weigh it and post the results.
It would be interesting if we all took the time to weigh each axle the next time out and just compile what we find.









Outbackgeorgia
Small 21RS


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## 2blackdogs (Aug 25, 2005)

This is why I am picking up the F-350 Dually 4 door today.
Long wheelbase....
When a small unit, even a pick up passed me I could feel the wiggle on my Tahoe.
Just not enough wheelbase for even the 25RSS.
Bob & Judy (2blackdogs)


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## gregjoyal (Jan 25, 2005)

CJ999 said:


> He says his water tank is behind the rear axel. Is this correct?
> [snapback]55333[/snapback]​


On the 28RSS the fresh water tank is at the back of the trailer. The grey is just behind the rear axle and the black is just in front.... At least on mine.

I have never towed with a full fresh water tank... And probably never will.

Greg


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## drose (Jul 26, 2005)

I towed my 28 twice with our tahoe and that is all it took to send me to get a new TV. Yes the tahoe had the power to tow it ok not sure how long the tranny would have lasted though. I believe that it all comes down to wheel base also. Not saying it can't be done but the last time pulled with full water and I couldn't get off the interstate fast enough.


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

Doug points out some thought-provoking ideas. I am one of the people that tows a 28BHS with a smaller tow vehicle, in my case a Tundra. Some thoughts about towing:

Towing is inherintly an unstable condition for a vehicle. No matter what setup you have, you must operate the vehicles with their inherint relationship and behaviors in mind. I was taught to drive and tow while I was in the military. I routinely pulled 32' and 36" trailers with 4x2 short wheel base trucks. I was expected to keep my speed below 45 mph. I tow my travel trailer at higher (not stupid) speeds with anti-sway and load-leveling. While this is a much better setup it doesn't mean it's perfect. Towing with a longer-wheel based vehicle only adds one element of increased safety.

People tend to become complacent the longer into the journey they get. Paying attention keeps you safe.

We never talk about cargo loading. Improperly loaded cargo can induce a tremendous amount of sway and bad weight distribution cannot be overcome by a weight-distributing hitch setup.

As the earlier post pointed out, knowing where the controls are and how to use them can bail you out of bad situations.

Staying aware of traffic and road conditions way ahead of yourself helps a lot. Your rig is much heavier and it takes a lot longer to stop it then if your vehicle is unloaded.

Just my two cents...

Reverie


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Well maybe they moved the tanks but on my 28rss the gray is right at the front axle and the black is well in front and the fresh as far back as it can get and not be under the bumper. I tow with the fresh full all the time but I am aware of the loading issues and the front of my trailer is well stocked to say the least.

The guy had no idea what was going on and is just luck no one was hurt. Be aware of what is going on and you will be safe as you will adjust to stay safe.


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

I'm not really sure that tanks full or empty make that much of a difference vs the gear and the number of people. I do alot of dry camping and haul fresh water tanks full alot plus more in portable tanks. To tell you the truth I cannot tell if the Outback is full or not full while towing it. Water adds weight but also lowers the center of gravity which plays a bigger factor on objects. I also added 5 bikes to the back & a canoe on top and I cannot tell the difference.

I think the key is driving safely, have your equipment set-up properly and always make sure it is working to its design intent. No sense have all the toys with they have not been setup correctly. My neighbour got hit on his left rear corner of the TT by a car doing a lane change on the highway doing 60mph. He thought he blew a tire until he saw the car spin sideways on the highway. Witnesses saw the TT jump about 4-6 ft after the impact. The TT swayed but quickly returned to normal. Everything inside was everywhere and piece of headlamp were stuck in his TT but everyone was ok. The point is the TT not not even come close to tipping over. To tip a TT over something seriously had to go wrong (blown tire, falling a sleep at the wheel and making a sudden correction, just to name a few)

Anyway...the most import thing is nobody was hurt and I'm glad we are talking about beacuse towing is a large responsibility.

Thor


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

> To tip a TT over something seriously had to go wrong (blown tire, falling a sleep at the wheel and making a sudden correction, just to name a few)


Thor, I will have to disagree on this one. Sway, without some other catostrophic equipment failure is still potent enough to flip both the TT and the TV. Uncontrolled sway, what ever the cause is the most common cause of crashes involving trailers.

That being said, all accidents/crashes are made up of a chain of mini-events. If any one of these mini-events didn't occur, the mishap would not have occurred.

This individual was towing with a 1500 series Yukon XL/Suburban with 130" WB. IMO, an ample TV for a 28RSS/RSDS/BHS (I don't recall which model he had). There are folks on this very forum who tow with that same combination and have never had a problem.

I will have to agree with Ghosty is thinking that what sway control he had, (by the victims description, most likely a single friction sway bar) may have bee inadequet. An Equal-i-zer, or Dual Cam may have controlled, or even prevented the sway.

The victims unfamiliaraity with his BC was also a contributing factor. Had he been more familiar with the manual brake lever, he may have been able to apply the trailer brakes and stop the sway.

The potential overloading of the trailer, with a full water tank, and possible unbalanced load, resulting in too low of a tongue weight. Unfortunately, we will probably never know on this one. The best thing anyone can do is weigh their rig, and don' t rely on manufacturer's labels (although it is my understanding that the RVIA is requiring actual weight as equipped to be posted on all '06 models)

As we can see there are many contributing factors. A change in any of them quite possibly would have changed the outcome. I don' think we will ever know the exact cause, nor will you be able to point your finger at only one thing.

The best that can come from this is that we all take a good hard look at our rigs and setups, re-familiarize ourselves with our BC's, get things weighed, and look to see how that weight is distributed, be familiar with our travel routes, and have some SA (situational awareness) while motoring down the highway. And above all, BE CAREFUL and BE SAFE! I'd like to meet all of you, just not while I'm working.









Tim


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

The thing I can't fiqure out is, how could this guy not have known his TT was on it's side until he saw it in his rear view mirror?

One would think that what had to be a God awful sound alone, would have been a clue.

I am also curious how he flipped the trailer and not the TV. That is if we was using any form of LD hitch. The way our Equal-i-zer is, I don't think you could flip one without the other going with it.

A real head scratcher, this one!

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

I will check with my Dad on that one. He is a professional accident reconstructionist, maybe some of his trade journals have covered it once or twice.

Tim


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

I have seen in the last 2 years 5 campers 'flipped' on there sides and none of them flipped the tow vehicle. Usually the trailer frame can twist and snap the hitch first I think. Sometimes I would like to stop and figure out why it happened but I doubt they would let me.

John


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## gregjoyal (Jan 25, 2005)

CamperAndy said:


> Well maybe they moved the tanks but on my 28rss the gray is right at the front axle and the black is well in front and the fresh as far back as it can get and not be under the bumper. I tow with the fresh full all the time but I am aware of the loading issues and the front of my trailer is well stocked to say the least.
> 
> The guy had no idea what was going on and is just luck no one was hurt. Be aware of what is going on and you will be safe as you will adjust to stay safe.
> [snapback]55543[/snapback]​


Hmmm, this made me think. Mine's a 2004 and thinking more clearly, the grey is pretty well centered above the axles and the black is clearly in front of them (but not too far). It's actually a pretty even distribution of the weight if you've got something in all of them....


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## hurricaneplumber (Apr 12, 2004)

"" professional accident reconstructionist""

Now that is a job title!!!! sounds kinda cool too me.

Also, his tow vehicle rearend was up off the ground, this was a confusing event, I have my opinions about the operator and lack of experience or ability to pay attention.


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

I would love to know where this took place and see if we can get the accident report. In some areas those are a matter of public record. In the end these types of accidents are always caused by weight distribution. Either you have carefully balanced and secured your load so that it distributes the weight evenly or your weight is distributed all over the road.

Reverie


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

I just read the post again and the more I read it the more I believe it is BS.

How could you not know that your TT is sideways until you look in your mirror and your truck is lifted 18" off of the ground









Anyway the thing I learn form these incidents that you can never be to careful towing. I now double check everything and anytime I stop I have a routine to check out my TV & TT. I have to keep my family safe.

Thor


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

hurricaneplumber said:


> Also, his tow vehicle rearend was up off the ground, this was a confusing event,
> [snapback]55668[/snapback]​


I would assume that if the trailer is still connected and on its side, the TV would raise in the air as the hitch is now 4 ft from the ground instead of 2 ft.









Steve


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## Stacey (Apr 25, 2004)

I used to tow our 26RS with a Suburban and switched over to a Nissan Titan. I use the same Reese Dual Cam and I have absolutely no sway at all with the Titan, while I had mild sway with the Suburban. While there are other factors besides wheelbase that may explain why the Titan has much less sway than the Suburban (despite weighing less than the Suburban), I believe that the added 10" of wheelbase in the Titan plays a significant factor.

The link below has a rule of thumb chart for wheelbase length and TT length.

http://www.rvtowingtips.com/how-long.htm

Signed Stacey's husband


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