# Short In The Running Lights On My 26rs



## FrankC29 (May 30, 2004)

I have had this problem since I purchased my 26rs back in June, and it's a very obnoxious problem because I cannot reliably drive my TT at night! Something is causing the 20 amp trailer running lights fuse in my truck to burn out. It happens intermittently. Sometimes the fuse will burn out right away after installing a fresh one, and sometimes the lights will stay on for an hour or more before this happens. I've taken it to two dealers and they are either clueless or lazy, because they say everything works fine, and of course I wasn't able to replicate the problem for them by driving it around the block. You know how that goes!! Anyway rather than bother with the dealers anymore I've like to try fixing it myself. If anyone with electric knowledge, especially concerning Outback trailers (anyone else experience this?) give me some tips or suggestions on finding this short I will be in your debt for all eternity. That's how much I would like to be able to drive my TT at night! BTW I have tried 3 different trucks with the same result, so it's not the truck.


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

I don't have a solution -- well I do but it sucks -- so let me give you some free advice instead (which may or may not suck) ..

while the trailer is still under warranty I would contact Keystone directly and get their advice. The reason I say this is becuase the same problem (different trialer but a Keystone product) happened to my friend and it took the dealer allot of time and money to fix (time = money)... and he had done like you and taken it to the dealer twice but on the third time got Keystone reluctatly involved (Keystone being reluctant)

The dealer checked all the prelimanry stuff -- circuit boards, battery connections, electricl box under the front of the trialer, and found nothing wrong ... finally the only thing left was for the dealer to follow each and every wire from the adapter modular (what you plug into the receiver for power) to each and every light. And I mean trace it physically the entire route...

Luckily (?) they found the problem after about 4 hours .. it was the back rear left light wire near th underbelly -- it was shorting on a piece of staple they used to staple the walls in... thus when the trialer flexed ever so slighty the staple would touch the bare wire and wham -- ground the (+) and his fuse would blow... of course after he stopped the vehcile -- put a new fuse in let it set there it would run like a champ... but make the certain turn, bump, wind, etc and wham -- there goes the fuse....

after they found the problem then they had to take the wall off to get to the wire and fix it... total cost to the manufacterer from the dealer for warranty work was right at 540 dollars...

luckily you, as he was, ae still under warranty -- but its important that you document and get Keystone involved ASAP before the warranty runs out becuase eventually YOU or Keystone will have to fix this -- or not drive the trailer at night -- or ever sell it to anyone becuase who would buy it with bad runnng lights... personally I have better things to use 540 on ..

BUT -- let me ask you the question the dealer asked my neightbor --

1. Are you blowing bulbs also?
2. Does one bulb burn brighter then the others?

also the dealer recommended to my friend that he take the bulb and housing assembly apart one at a time to see if you could see any damage (ie a loose wire at the bulb housing that is touching or an indication that the housing has a short in it (look for black marks from shorting)


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## aplvlykat (Jan 25, 2004)

Hi Frank, I will try to give you some ideas. The problem can be in several areas. The first being the non-weather proof box where the wires from the plug come to. Remove the tank cover and disconnect the batteries and the truck power then look for the silver box that the main plug goes to. Open it up and redo all wire nut connection looking for any loose or frayed wires or wires that may have some pieces dangling . This is usually a dealer installed item and they may have been in a hurry to install your's. Also look for where the wires go into the under belly for the same problems. You may want to slightly pull on these wires to see if they have frayed spots, they should have plenty of slack. Another place to look is where the wires come out of the frame back near the rear lights, again slightly pull and look for bad spots. The next thing you need to do is to remove the rear lights and inspect them as well. You said it only happens at night, so this tells me it is in your running light circuit seeing as how they only work at night. They can be a real SOB to troubleshoot. All running lights will have to be removed and all connection checked. I would check the first areas to see if that doesn't solve your problems. Kirk


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## FrankC29 (May 30, 2004)

Thank you both for your comments! The bulbs seem pretty evenly lit (though I haven't honestly checked for this, I will) and none have burned out. Yes I will raise a stink with Keystone about this, I want it documented in case I cannot find the problem myself in very short order. I guess it makes sense to do the easy stuff first, that is check the main wire harnesss...then check the taillights and all marker lights...maybe check the plug while I'm at it. My fear is that it's in an in-between land, like the nightmare scenario Ghosty refers to.









I will report back, thanks again.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Just echoing a bit of what was said above. When you find the problem it will be a skinned wire that was damaged by being pulled though the frame or in the wall. You will need to drop the belly skin and wiggle move each wire in turn to see if you can duplicate the problem. Also a good visual inspection of the wiring is in order. The biggest head ache will be putting the belly skin back up!


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## FrankC29 (May 30, 2004)

If that's what it requires it will not be me doing it, it will be the dealer. Maybe this is why they are not showing much enthusiasm to solve this issue. Here is where I stand now: the dealership where it is currently located ( a 2 hour drive from me) wants me to pick it up Saturday. They say they have not been able replicate the problem, that I can hook it up and try to replicate the problem when I pick it up. My problem it this, if I am able to replicate the problem, then I go home without my trailer, because they will not most likely be able to fix it in front of me. If, on the other hand, the fuse doesn't pop, then they send me home with the trailer. Doesn't sound like a good outcome either way. IMO a reputable dealer would go ahead and start trying to find the short rather than trying to avoid doing that and making me try to prove that the problem even exists in the first place. I have email Keystone to try to get them involved. I may go ahead and call them tomorrow. What a hassle this is turning out to be.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Frank - Just a little more detail before you go off on Keystone.

Only the running and tail lights fuse blows? All brake and turn lights still work as does the trailer brakes? As you can see from the attached photo. terminals 3 and 4 are the tail lights and 12vdc. A loose strand of wire in either the truck or the trailer connector may cause your fuse to blow but since the dealer can not replicate it. It could be because the trouble is in the truck and your truck was not left at the dealer.










You do not list what TV you have but was just wondering a couple of other things.

Is the TV factory wired to the 7 pin connector or did the dealer have to do it?
Has the short appeared since new or is it a more recent issue?


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

I will tell -- as an add on to my above rambling -- that Keystone did everything they could to try and prove to my neighbor that it was somehow his trucks problem and not the trailers... so be ready for that round of agrevation (of course I dont blame thme for saying that -- that was actually my first thought to when he told me)... but the most important thing to get from Keystone IN WRITING is THAT ON SUCH AND SUCH DATE - PRIOR TO YOUR WARRANTY EXPIRING -- YOU BOUGHT THIS PROBLEM TO THEM... that should stop the warranty clock on that paticular problem..


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

You've already gotten some good advise, so I'm going to echo some of it. Most likely the problem is a wire got skinned while being pulled thru or across something during assembly, or a staple/screww has penetrated a wire. Since you've already checked the easier and more obvious things, and tested using three different trucks, its time to go to checking each of the running lights individually.
I'd start by taking the covers off each running light as someone else described, looking for the obvious.
Next, begin removing eachlight assembly from the trailer body so you can pull some slack wire out. This might expose the problem or may move the skinned wire off a staple or away from an area where its contacting metal. Just don't force anything, just pull the slack until its tight.
If notrhing, then I'd start tracing the wiring from the front connection as someone already suggested, into the underbelly, etc. again pulling whatever slack you can and inspecting for cuts.

Before I went any further than this, I'd put it back together and give it a good test run, in all the witre pulling, ou may have moved the cut away from where it can make contact with metal.

If the problem still exists, the dealer and Keystone need to get involved again, however, if after all that it still is an problem, I think I'd try pulling new wiring rather than remove the trailer skin.

Good luck, Glenn


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## FrankC29 (May 30, 2004)

As mentioned I've already tried 3 different TV's, so the problem by deffination has to be from the plug on back. I am kicking myself for not doing a couple hours of my own troubleshooting before taking it in, starting with the plug, the main wire harness and each individual light fixture. A quick question: Let's assume for a momemt that it's a wire leading to one of the light fixtures alone, and not a primary wire. If I remove the light bulb from this particular assembly, would it bypass the problem? What I am getting at is could I remove the lightbulbs one at a time from each assembly than take it for a spin. I guess that would depend on how it's wired, but perhaps someone knows the answer. I can't think of a more difficult problem to have arisen in the trailer wiring, geez.


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

If you have staple or screw or nail or small child or something like that piercing the wires, than removing the bulbs will not stop the fuse from blowing.
Some of the wiring is practically impossible to get to, but you can eyeball the biggest majority of it.
It would involve checking the junction box as was mentioned above and if nothing is found, then dropping the underbelly down the left side of the trailer.
I believe most of the wiring is just thrown up in there all the way to the rear of the trailer.
Good possibility that they pinched it somewhere installing the underbelly.


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Don't kick yourself Frank. You shouldn't have to be an amateur electrician to own an Outback. This is clearly a warranty issue and best handled by your dealer. Best of luck to you.


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## FrankC29 (May 30, 2004)

Well I brought the trailer home to see if I could find the problem myself. Still plenty of time left in my first year to take it back (to a different dealer!), plus I've got the problem documented with Keystone. Sooo. I took a look in the main wire junction (shouldn't this be a sealed unit?) and everything looked fine. I moved things around a bit and tugged and pulled on some slack in the wires where they enter the frame, hoping any slight movement would cure the problem. The clearance lights are powered by the green wire coming from the plug. This green wire is then connected to 2 wires going to the lights. One is green and powers all the red lights, the other is white with an orange stripe and that one powers all the orange lights. My plan was once the short occured, I would then try to narrow the problem down to either an orange light short or a red light short by the process of elimination. Haven't had the chance however because now the short will not come. I drove it around my city like a goon for what seemed like forever, making sure to go over every train track I saw...nothing. That doesn't mean the problem is gone, mind you, just that it is waiting for me to be with the family on the way home from a long trip in the middle of the night, tired and irritable. However this turns out, I'll report back here, just in case anyone else is faced with something similar and wants to know how it turned out.

On a good note, Keystone is sending out a replacement propane tank cover. The orignal came full of cracks. Not a high quality cover I must say, hopefully the replacement is a little better.


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## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

It sounds like a short circuit is blowing your fuse- a short is where a "hot" wire comes in contact with "ground," basicly any metal portion of the trailer chassis. As mentioned above, it's probably a damaged wire.

Test procedure: with your 7-pin plug disconnected from the TV, hook up a 12v light or buzzer (like a seat belt buzzer) between constant power from one of the 7-pin connections to the other 7-pin connector going to the running lights. It will light up/buzz when the running light grounds out, i.e. when the short occurs. By going around a wiggling wires, you may get the light to flicker or buzzer to cut in and out. That will tell you where the wire is shorted. If you're lucky, you'll find it fairly quickly and simply tape it up. It's often very difficult to find something like this using eyeballs alone.

My guess is that there's a frayed wire that contacts ground as your trailer bounces down the road, possibly between the underbelly and the lateral supports, or one of the holes they drilled through the aluminum framing. Good luck!

Kevin P.


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