# F-350 Towing In The Mountains



## snickers (Nov 1, 2009)

Good Afternoon,

My Dad has a 2006 f-350 P.S.D., crew cab,430 limited slip dually and will be pulling
a 2010 321frl 35' 5'er. through the mountains in North and South Carolina this September
and all over the west next year on the way to Alaska. BTW, the truck is in impeccable condition, inside and out.
It's been a few years since he's been RV-ing out west and would like to know opinions on the F350 and the weight of the fifth wheel. Future states we'll be going through are Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho and Canadian provinces Alberta and British Columbia.

Question #1: Tell me about my 6.0 P.S.D. and the 430 rear end.

Question #2: Do you think the truck can handle pulling the fifth wheel up the mountains out west without any issues?

Question #3: What concerns should I have about both?

Question #4: What spare parts should I carry?

Again, it's been awhile since Dad has been RV-ing. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Snickers


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## Duanesz (Jul 10, 2009)

Sounds like its set-up to be a tow beast 4.30 gears should be awesome on those long pulls up the mountains. How many miles are on the truck? I think the 06 6.0 was the best year for the engine from what I have been reading. If its getting close to be out of warranty egr delete oil cooler are some of the known issues of this engine. Goto powerstroke.org and powerstrokenation.com great forums for the ford diesels.

Duane


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Punch tow haul and go. Seriously, I had a full profile 35' 5'er that came in at ~12k loaded. I had a single rear wheel and a 3.55 rear end. Sure, I had the 6.4L but the 6.0L is more than you need, especially with the 4.30 rear end. He should have no problems with power. The only things I see are watching how far the trailer cuts in on turns on very tight roads (I didn't like that) and to know his height (measure, don't assume) jsut for low clearance tunnels, and gas stations.


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## snickers (Nov 1, 2009)

snickers said:


> Good Afternoon,
> 
> My Dad has a 2006 f-350 P.S.D., crew cab,430 limited slip dually and will be pulling
> a 2010 321frl 35' 5'er. through the mountains in North and South Carolina this September
> ...


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## snickers (Nov 1, 2009)

Duane,

My Dad bought the beast with a 118,000 miles and what's unbelieveable is that ford extenede the warranty for anothre 24,000 miles. My dad took the hours and the mileage when he bought it for$15,000.00 and figured out that the average speed for the engine since it was lit was a little over 52 miles a hour. My dad knows a little about diesels and have been driveing the local ford deaale nuts. Total new fuel system.. all new injectors, fuel pump,
injector pump, fuel module,tank fuel pump etc. etc..
Just so you know, my Dad is a retired Engineer and strives for perfection..............plus I'm riding in the truck and my Daddy loves me.

Thk's for the input,

Snickers


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

with the tow boss package that you have (most likely you have that with the 4.30 rears) you will have no trouble weight wise, either pulling or stopping. and the torqueshift tranny on our trucks is excellent. the truck is built for just what you are doing.

where i would focus is the 6.0L engine, and making sure it is ready for the workout. 2006 and 2007 are the best years for the 6.0L. but oil cooler restriction on the coolant side is a big issue. do you currently monitor oil temp vs. coolant temp ? do you have any aftermarket gauges on the truck ? i would suggest getting an edge insight digital monitor that will plug into the OBDII port on the truck. this will let you watch tranny temp, oil temp, coolant temp, boost, and many other parameters under load. all the things that the fuel injection powertrain control modules see you will see, real time in digital readout. there is a TSB from ford that allows for an oil cooler core replacement under warranty for the $100 deductible if oil temp exceeds coolant temp by more than 15 degrees when coolant temp is 190F or more, under load or not. so first thing, get an edge insight on there and monitor temps. if the spread is less than 10 degrees when pulling, you are all good. approaching or over 15, your truck is a time bomb and this needs to be addressed if you are gonna be that far from home. you should still be under warranty, unless you are over 100k already. so, how many miles on the truck ? when was the last time the coolant system was flushed ? have you ever puked coolant out the degas bottle under load ? does the truck mysteriously lose coolant ? does it blow some white smoke after startup ? premium gold is supposed to go 100k, but the heavy service regimen recommends 50K, and for you, planning this long trip, i would look to do some work on the cooling system now, if temps turn out to be ok. if the oil cooler core is replaced under warranty, that procedure includes new coolant and a system flush with VC-9 block cleaner. the weakness of the 6.0L is the oil cooler. brand new, it is a fantastic design. but over time, either through a block shedding casting sand, or poor cooling system maintenance, or using the wrong coolant, the oil cooler can plug and begin a chain reaction of troubles, from EGR coolers to turbos, and all the way to head gaskets. stock gauges are no better than idiot lights, so adding aftermarket gauges or the edge insight, which i recommend because it is cheaper and easier and does more, will tell you where you are. whether the oil cooler core is replaced or not, i would recommend a coolant filter be added to the truck. it will not void your warranty. it is a by pass filtration system designed to keep your coolant free from particulate that will plug your oil cooler. after you know where temps are, get this put on. i use and recommend the one from dieselsite.com. international's version of our engine is called the VT-365. international issued a recall and retrofitted all in service engines with a coolant filter, and then new production included one stock. ford never did that, but they should have.

when you put the edge insight in, i would spend the extra $100 bucks or so to add the pyrometer probe in the drivers side exhaust manifold, to monitor EGT's. this is important when towing in the mountains for any truck, as excessive EGT's will kill any diesel engine and it's turbo. it will tell you when you have to back off of the go pedal. high heat kills any engine, and towing big loads up grade and at altitude makes lots of heat.

aside from the coolant system, fuel pressure is the second biggest issue with these engines. the injector design on the 6.0L is very advanced. it requires that fuel pressure never drop below 45psi, even under WOT conditions. i would recommend putting a fuel pressure gauge on the truck. the ONE big thing that the OBDII cannot see is fuel pressure, but it is easy to put a gauge off the fuel pressure test port off the fuel bowl on top of the engine. under 45psi will kill the injectors pretty quick. the stock spring in the fuel bowl, that regulates fuel pressure to the fuel rail, has shown the tendency to weaken over time and let fuel pressures drop. ford has an upgrade for about $70 to put in a new, stiffer spring, which allows fuel pressure to never drop below 60psi at WOT. if you don't want to do a fuel pressure gauge, then just do this spring upgrade and be done with it. also, only use motorcraft or racor / international fuel filters, and change both the top and bottom filter every 10k. in addition to needing pressure, they need clean, water free fuel. they are a european design (from siemens) and were designed with ultra low sulfer, super clean (and super expensive) european diesel in mind. as just being super rigorous with my maintenance, i drain the HFCM every couple of thousand miles or so, so i never get a water in fuel light or have water or crappy fuel foul the sensor and give me false positive warnings.

third, as you may know, the engine uses engine oil as hydraulic fluid, under high pressure, to actuate the injectors. clean oil is a must. it also shears the oil down in viscosity, because it is under this very high pressure. change it every 5k miles, which is the heavy service regimen. i use a by pass oil filtration system on mine as extra insurance, but that is certainly not necessary. dino 15w40, with motorcraft or racor / international oil filters only, every 5k, and you will be fine.

fourth, service the tranny, with new fluid and both the internal and external filters. normal is 60k i think, i do mine every 35k to 40k with the amount of towing i do. the tranny is damn near bulletproof, but follow the heavy service schedule. depending on miles, do the rear differential, and if a 4x4 the transfer case and front differential. the tranny and rear end are the least of your worries.

the 6.0L is potentially the most universally hated and badmouthed diesel engine out there. but it is a beautiful engine. when the coolant system is well cared for, fuel pressure is attended to, and fluid and filters are done on the heavy service regimen with OEM parts (for oil, tranny, and fuel filters, use your favorite 15w40 oil), the engine will go 300k plus. i would also add that i would not recommend tuning the engine for more HP or torque. leave it bone stock. it has plenty of power, and with your 4.30 rears, you don't need more pulling power.

extra parts to take ? i would take a couple of gallons of premium gold coolant. if you have a coolant issue on the road and add anything other than this or zerex g-05, you can cause coolant gelling. so keep some with you, with a couple of gallons of distilled water. also, a spare degas bottle cap, in case you blow pressure past 16psi and compromise it. unlikely if you are doing what i recommend above, but it is a $20 part that could save your butt in the middle of nowhere. also, take a serpentine belt with you, and both upper and lower radiator hoses. again, cheap insurance in case something happens and the local mechanic does not have them in stock. i also carry an extra oil filter with me and both fuel filters. if i need an emergency oil change, oil is everywhere, but the stock filter can be hard to get outside of a dealership. fuel filters the same in the off chance i get a really really crappy tank of fuel in the middle of nowhere. that is the beauty of the fuel pressure gauge - if you junk up the lower filter with bad fuel, the pressure will drop and you will know something is wrong and can drain out the HFCM and swap the filter out. that takes a rachet with a 36mm socket, which stays in my glovebox. 36mm is also the size of the oil filter cap on the topside of the engine.

those are the majors ! sounds like you have some great trips planned....my dad did northeastern CT to the kenai penninsula 8 times with his 5'er. it's a hell of a trip. he fished all summer, ripped out the couch and chairs in the trailer and replaced them with chest freezers, and ate salmon for the next year he was back !

was typing this while you posted back, now i see mileage and warranty info, along with your dad's background, so i am even more emphatic about the above recommendations...

also, forgot to mention www.dieselstop.com. a great reference forum board.


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## snickers (Nov 1, 2009)

willingtonpaul said:


> with the tow boss package that you have (most likely you have that with the 4.30 rears) you will have no trouble weight wise, either pulling or stopping. and the torqueshift tranny on our trucks is excellent. the truck is built for just what you are doing.
> 
> where i would focus is the 6.0L engine, and making sure it is ready for the workout. 2006 and 2007 are the best years for the 6.0L. but oil cooler restriction on the coolant side is a big issue. do you currently monitor oil temp vs. coolant temp ? do you have any aftermarket gauges on the truck ? i would suggest getting an edge insight digital monitor that will plug into the OBDII port on the truck. this will let you watch tranny temp, oil temp, coolant temp, boost, and many other parameters under load. all the things that the fuel injection powertrain control modules see you will see, real time in digital readout. there is a TSB from ford that allows for an oil cooler core replacement under warranty for the $100 deductible if oil temp exceeds coolant temp by more than 15 degrees when coolant temp is 190F or more, under load or not. so first thing, get an edge insight on there and monitor temps. if the spread is less than 10 degrees when pulling, you are all good. approaching or over 15, your truck is a time bomb and this needs to be addressed if you are gonna be that far from home. you should still be under warranty, unless you are over 100k already. so, how many miles on the truck ? when was the last time the coolant system was flushed ? have you ever puked coolant out the degas bottle under load ? does the truck mysteriously lose coolant ? does it blow some white smoke after startup ? premium gold is supposed to go 100k, but the heavy service regimen recommends 50K, and for you, planning this long trip, i would look to do some work on the cooling system now, if temps turn out to be ok. if the oil cooler core is replaced under warranty, that procedure includes new coolant and a system flush with VC-9 block cleaner. the weakness of the 6.0L is the oil cooler. brand new, it is a fantastic design. but over time, either through a block shedding casting sand, or poor cooling system maintenance, or using the wrong coolant, the oil cooler can plug and begin a chain reaction of troubles, from EGR coolers to turbos, and all the way to head gaskets. stock gauges are no better than idiot lights, so adding aftermarket gauges or the edge insight, which i recommend because it is cheaper and easier and does more, will tell you where you are. whether the oil cooler core is replaced or not, i would recommend a coolant filter be added to the truck. it will not void your warranty. it is a by pass filtration system designed to keep your coolant free from particulate that will plug your oil cooler. after you know where temps are, get this put on. i use and recommend the one from dieselsite.com. international's version of our engine is called the VT-365. international issued a recall and retrofitted all in service engines with a coolant filter, and then new production included one stock. ford never did that, but they should have.
> 
> ...


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## snickers (Nov 1, 2009)

Mr. Willingtonpaul,

Thank You very much for your in depth reply. Sounds like you know your Ford's pretty well.
Well, since my Dad read your suggestions, he has ordered the Edge Insight and should recieve it in the next (2) day's. My Dad said that if you want to talk that he can be reached at 727-943-7804......his name is Bob.

Again, Thank You for sharing your knowledge with my Dad.

"Snickers"


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

no problem on helping you out. many have helped me get to where i am in my knowledge level on this engine. it has become a hobby and obsession of mine, and i am happy to pass along what i know. email and the forums are the best way to reach me. my work and play schedules are pretty crazy, and i basically live on the phone at work, so PM me here or on the dieselstop,com site and we can converse as you move through the steps. i have a copy of the most recent FORD TSB on the oil cooler replacement, and can help with the language that your dad needs to use with the service manager of the dealership to get them to do what needs to be done if the oil temps are over.

i see from your other post that your dad has already done some fuel system work, but a fuel pressure gauge is very important, and i doubt that the dealership even knows about the fuel pressure spring upgrade. if you need the ford part number for that, let me know.

also, there are damn few dealerships that are up to speed on the updated coolant system maintenance procedures from FORD. there are testing strips to test the nitrite levels of the coolant before flushing. being technical in nature, your dad will most likely understand that if the nitrite levels are too low, the anti corrosive properties of the coolant are compromised. ford and international figured out that corrosion in the cooling system is a major source of blockage in the coolant side of the oil cooler. so, before the system is to be flushed, the nitrite levels are to be checked, and if they are too low, a product called VC-9 iron cleaner is to be run through the system. this iron cleaner scours the surface of the cast iron block, removing any scale from the system. then fresh coolant and distilled water is put in and the nitrites lay down a protective corrosion barrier on the raw cast iron. it is like sandblasting the inside of the block to like new condition. when you bring your truck in your a coolant flush 99.9% of delaerships just drop the coolant out and put new coolant in. heck, you can ask at the parts counter for the test strips and they say "huh"? or give you a blank stare......

all of this will be done if the oil cooler is replaced, so it is great that your dad has the insight coming. i hope he got the optional pyrometer probe with it. and it is the INSIGHT right, not the CS or CTS ? there are software issues with the CS and the CTS that will not allow it to read oil temp, rendering it basically useless. the fix for this software from edge is at least 30 days away.

for 15k your dad is in the truck very right, IMHO. he got a deal, to be sure. there are alot of people that are scared to death of the 6.0L, and they represent the best deal in the diesel truck market. and there are no regenerations to worry about, oil dilution issues, urea to have to add, etc, etc. and the mileage will be better than a 6.4L by a wide margin.


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

this is what you want to see....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157624436712467/


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## snickers (Nov 1, 2009)

willingtonpaul said:


> this is what you want to see....
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157624436712467/


 Good Morning,

I should be getting my Edge Insight today by Fed. x, and yes I ordered the Insight with the Pyrometer.
The following has been done-

I make it a point to change my oil every 5k. And when I 1st got the truck, which was a year ago I changed 
the oil 3 times or every 3k, and the filter. The oil I use is Rotella.

The Trans fluid was changed twice. Once when I purchased, and about 4wks. ago. Ford did both.

The differential fluid was also changed twice when the tranny was done, just to make sure.

The Racor or the International filters, can you tell me the part numbers, and where is the best place to by?

Like I had said in one of the previous posts Ford replaced all the injectors,injector pump, fuel pump, and fuel
module were changed due to a bad batch of diesel with gasoline in it.not a large amount but enough to cause issues
.................insurance paid for it.

Also, you had said that you would tell me the language to talk to my dealer about a new cooler, I would appreciate
you coaching me.

Yes, I am going to investigate a fuel pressure gauge any, suggestions. And what would cause low pressure 
than dirty filters or a weak spring.

The pictures of your engine, what was I looking at as far as add ons?

Your,F-350 is gorgeous and I'm sure the engine is in prestine condition, that's my goal.

Again Thank's Much,
Snickers's Dad.


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

ok, great news on the insight. you're gonna love it. what you want to focus on is "diesel engine oil temp" and "engine coolant temp". if memory serves me right, diesel engine oil temp is a FORD PID, in the FORD menu on the insight. coolant temp is a normal parameter. i have a 4 function display set up that shows me EGT (pyro), tranny temp, EOT (oil temp) and ECT (coolant temp). i also have a 2 function display as a bar graph that shows oil on top and coolant on the bottom. get these set up and hook up your trailer. take her on a check ride, and report back with the temps you see. pull some hills on the interstate. work her good. the max delta in temp spreads happens on the tip off of the accelerator. so you climb a good grade. coolant climbs and oil climbs. then, at the top, you ease off the go pedal and start down the other side. coolant begins to drop like a rock, but the oil gives up heat much slower, even with a brand new oil cooler. about 20 to 30 seconds on the backside of the grade, you should see max delta. if it is 15 or under, you are fine. if it is 20 or more, time for the oil cooler core to go. let me know what you see, and depending on that, we can go from there. also make note of ambient temps outside, based on the outside temp reading in the climate control. maybe snickers can go on the ride with you and write the temps down as you go, both while climbing and cruising the flats and on the downside of the grades. you can have the insight record a session of parameters and then download them to a laptop. i am not good enough with a computer to do that, but it is a neat feature that someday i will try to figure out.

that's great that you have redone injectors on the insurance dime, and all the other work done. fuel pressure spring and gauge, and you are ready for war. i have an autometer fuel pressure gauge. an electronic one (you don't want a mechanical one and run fuel into the cab, not safe). google autometer gauges and you can find them cheap. maybe ITP diesel is a good place to start. i will post a link to them and their ADAPTER LINE that goes off the upper fuel bowl, and then you can attach the sending unit for the gauge at the end of that. fuel pressure spring is a ford part. i will dig up a thread on dieselstop.com for you. weak springs or clogged filters are the major culprit of low fuel pressure. other than that, it could be a spent fuel pump / HFCM, but you got a new one so you're all good there....

here are some links for you to check out....

the best place i know of for any filters for our trucks:

http://www.dieselfiltersonline.com/Fd-4616-Motorcraft-Fd4616-Ford-6-0-Liter-Turbo-Diesel-Fuel-Water-Seperator-Filters-Pick-Up-Excursion-Replaces-Fd-4604-Fd-4616.aspx
http://www.dieselfiltersonline.com/Fl-2016-Motorcraft-Fl2016-Ford-6-0-Liter-Turbo-Diesel-Oil-Filter-Fl-2016.aspx

what you saw under my hood:

you must have this coolant filter:
http://www.dieselsite.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=324

this is the by pass oil filter i use: (not necessary, just good insurance, i do not do extended interval drains)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD-6-0-POWERSTROKE-BYPASS-OIL-FILTRATION-FILTER-KIT-2-/260631143623?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3caed3a4c7#ht_1703wt_1167


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

here is my fuel pressure gauge:

http://www.sinisterdiesel.com/store.php/products/SCII_100psi_FP_Gauge

here is the adapter line that makes it easy to connect it to the fuel bowl:

http://www.sinisterdiesel.com/store.php/products/60L_FP_Adapter


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

here is the thread on the fuel pressure spring upgrade. pay sprecial attention to the post(s) by FORD DOCTOR (a tech, really helpful guy). goes through the whole thing. there are other posts there that talk about putting a 6mm BB under the stock spring, or stretching the spring. these are half a$$ attempts at fixing the problem from when before FORD came out with the kit. order the kit and put it in and you are good to go......BISMIC however, has been a great help to me and a very informative person on the board.

http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f23/fuel-pressure-spring-255273/


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## snickers (Nov 1, 2009)

willingtonpaul said:


> here is the thread on the fuel pressure spring upgrade. pay sprecial attention to the post(s) by FORD DOCTOR (a tech, really helpful guy). goes through the whole thing. there are other posts there that talk about putting a 6mm BB under the stock spring, or stretching the spring. these are half a$$ attempts at fixing the problem from when before FORD came out with the kit. order the kit and put it in and you are good to go......BISMIC however, has been a great help to me and a very informative person on the board.
> 
> http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f23/fuel-pressure-spring-255273/


 Mr. Willingtonpaul,

O'k I have the Insight connected, was a piece of cake...........setting up the displays was a bit challenging,
I am just a mechanical guy. Got my (4) displays set up. Every display has engine temp. & oil temp to start with.
Thought in one of your posts you said there's a port on the exhaust manifold that I can put my pyrometer into.
If not I will just drill and tap the pipe thread.

O'k, here's my temps. just goung to and from work, about 22- miles each way with speeds from 40 to 65 mph.
I will hook up the 5th this weekend and push it.

outside temp....95f
engine coolant...199/203
oil temp....205/206
trans. temp....159/162

What do you think?

Snicker's Dad


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

you do have to drill and tap a hole in the exhaust manifold to install the pyrometer probe. the instructions with the insight show you where to drill the hole, in the driver's side manifold closest to the cab (rearmost cylinder). i am glad you had no troubles with the insight installation, it is easy isn't it ? navigating the menus is a bit tedious, but glad you got it. i believe it is far easier and superior to traditional gauges.

and those temps are perfect. right where you want to be empty. now, get pulling some grades with the trailer in tow to verify that all is ok. but given your empty temps, i am gonna guess you are gonna be within spec on them, and have no issues. but you gotta get the truck under load. when pulling some good grades, in the 6 to 7% range for a couple miles or more, when it is in the 90's outside, my oil gets up to the 230 to 235 range and the coolant is 220 to 225. then the fan kicks on real hard, and drops the temps down. so you need to see where the oil is under load, and if you are spreading over 15 degrees to coolant. i look forward to hearing how you make out with the fiver in tow.

that is the next step. as a side note, one of my screens is a 6 function display, where i show:

engine load %
boost
tranny temp
coolant temp
oil temp
EGT

this is a good pulling screen to have.....there is alot going on on the screen and the numbers are a bit small, but it is a good one to have. just another idea for you.

again, looking forward to seeing your pulling temps. give her a good workout.


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## snickers (Nov 1, 2009)

willingtonpaul said:


> you do have to drill and tap a hole in the exhaust manifold to install the pyrometer probe. the instructions with the insight show you where to drill the hole, in the driver's side manifold closest to the cab (rearmost cylinder). i am glad you had no troubles with the insight installation, it is easy isn't it ? navigating the menus is a bit tedious, but glad you got it. i believe it is far easier and superior to traditional gauges.
> 
> and those temps are perfect. right where you want to be empty. now, get pulling some grades with the trailer in tow to verify that all is ok. but given your empty temps, i am gonna guess you are gonna be within spec on them, and have no issues. but you gotta get the truck under load. when pulling some good grades, in the 6 to 7% range for a couple miles or more, when it is in the 90's outside, my oil gets up to the 230 to 235 range and the coolant is 220 to 225. then the fan kicks on real hard, and drops the temps down. so you need to see where the oil is under load, and if you are spreading over 15 degrees to coolant. i look forward to hearing how you make out with the fiver in tow.
> 
> ...


 Hi,

Like I said, Saturday I'm going to run the Suncoast Parkway down here which is around 50 or 60 miles. The only problem I have is that this is Florida..............flat, no grades. So what I'm going to do is push it at a higher speed which I think is the best I can do. What do you think.

Have a Great Evening,

Bob


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

yup, it's FL. forgot about that ! hard to find any 6% grades down there....

well, do what you can. towing at 70 to 75 for a bit should be good, and "allow" yourself to get stuck behind someone going slow, or slow down if you can do it, to around 25mph or so. then give it WOT to pass them off or get to back up to cruising speed, getting back up to 70 - 75 mph cruising speed as fast as you can. the oil should climb, with the coolant behind it, and when you get up to cruising speed, you will level off the accelerator at a steady RPM, most likely around 2k. 30 seconds to a minute after this move, you should see your max delta between oil and coolant. it's not a hill, but it is a hard acceleration. the boost should be around 25 to 28psi at the peak WOT, and you can put that on a display board for this test. when you are climbing a grade out west, you will see RPM's and boost up in the 2500 to 2800 range and 25 to 28psi range for a bit, and that is working the engine. the 6.0L likes that 2500 to 2800 RPM spot for maximum hard work performance. so drive your boost and RPM's up several times on the trip, after the engine is fully warmed up, to see where the max delta's are....


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## snickers (Nov 1, 2009)

willingtonpaul said:


> yup, it's FL. forgot about that ! hard to find any 6% grades down there....
> 
> well, do what you can. towing at 70 to 75 for a bit should be good, and "allow" yourself to get stuck behind someone going slow, or slow down if you can do it, to around 25mph or so. then give it WOT to pass them off or get to back up to cruising speed, getting back up to 70 - 75 mph cruising speed as fast as you can. the oil should climb, with the coolant behind it, and when you get up to cruising speed, you will level off the accelerator at a steady RPM, most likely around 2k. 30 seconds to a minute after this move, you should see your max delta between oil and coolant. it's not a hill, but it is a hard acceleration. the boost should be around 25 to 28psi at the peak WOT, and you can put that on a display board for this test. when you are climbing a grade out west, you will see RPM's and boost up in the 2500 to 2800 range and 25 to 28psi range for a bit, and that is working the engine. the 6.0L likes that 2500 to 2800 RPM spot for maximum hard work performance. so drive your boost and RPM's up several times on the trip, after the engine is fully warmed up, to see where the max delta's are....


 Mr. Paul,

Well we went for a ride late Saturday morning and the following are the results.........Sure like that gauge.
The truck was warmed up pretty good since it takes around 40 minutes to get to the Parkway. Speeds on the way there were 50 mph. down to about 30 mph.

12:00 noon, been on the Parway about 15 min's.-
ect.- 207 deg.
oct.- 215 deg.
ext. temp.- 94 deg.
speed- 65 mph.

12:20 
ect.- 207 deg.
oct.- 218 deg.
ext. temp-94 deg
68 mph.

12:30- stopped for toll

12:50

ect. 217
oct.- 228
ext. temp.- 95 deg.
68 mph.for about 10 min.
80 mph. for about 10 min...boost around 27 psi getting there.
back to 68 mph. for about 5min. then back to 80 mph for another 5 min.
then back to 65 mph. for about 10 min.

1:30 very slight rolling hills.

ect.- 210 deg.
oct.- 225 deg. 
ext. temp 95 deg.
speed- 62 mph.

On the back on the parkway.

ect.- 210
oct.- 216
ext. temp- 95 deg.
speed- 62 mph

ect.- 210
oct.- 219
ext. temp- 96 deg.
speed- 65 mph.

Well that's the raedings. What do you think?

Hope you had a good weekend,

Bob and Snickers.
oct.- 219

80 mph........was at this speed for about 5 min.


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

hi bob & snickers...

camping out on cape cod with sporadic and weak wifi. sorry for the delay in reply.

well, initially the temps looked good. but now that you worked the truck out for an hour or so, then cruising at 65 you saw a 19 degree spread, i am worried that your oil cooler has enough partial restriction to give you grief when in the rockies out west. did you notice that the horrible stock ford gauges did not even move from the middle of the range ? they are total crap. anyway, you will be working the truck harder, and at altitude, so i think the longer duration higher boost will get the temps up high enough that they will take longer to cool on the downgrades and spike way past 19. what danger these higher temps pose are threefold:

1. breakdown of proper functioning fluids, especially coolant, where at high temps, precipitate can form
2. chance of causing limited and hot coolant flow to EGR cooler, and having it burst on you
3. risk of popping a head gasket(s) and having a really bad day

here is what i would recommend. talk to the service manager of your dealer. from previous posts, i seem to remember that you have a relationship with him already









in my experience, if you walk in there spewing stats like temps, he will figure you are reading way too much for your own good, and looking for problems that don't exist. he most likely will ask you if your truck is running well. you will say yes, and he will then ask you, "so what is the problem ?"

again, in my experience, the way to go about this is to tell him that you are experiencing a loss of power in towing, that the truck seems to be losing power at higher temps on the oil and coolant. our trucks begin to de fuel at around 225ish on the coolant and 245ish on the oil. you are nearly there on the coolant. show him the insight that you put in, and make sure he knows that it is NOT a programmer for more power (they can check to confirm this, and most likely will, looking at the programming of the truck to make sure it is a stock tune); that you put it on to monitor temps better, as the stock gauges leave much to be desired and you will be in the rockies pulling your 5'er. that you have been doing some test runs, and noticing that when working her hard in high 90's outside temps, the truck behaves sluggish. ask him what he thinks of that. unless he offers you a check ride with a tech with their diagnostic laptop plugged in, whatever he says, suggest that you would like to recreate the scenario with a tech riding with you for them to see. ask him to book an apt. for you to take a tech for a ride, with the trailer in tow, with the tech having his or her laptop diagnostic computer plugged in to monitor engine vitals, to show him what you are FEELING when the truck is working hard. don't say to show temp spreads, oil temp, coolant temp, or anything like that. your goal is to have the tech get in the truck with you with the trailer in tow. to secure that appointment, the best way is to complain about PERFORMANCE, not STATISTICS. remember, you do not have a check engine light YET. we are trying to make sure you don't get one, at the most inopportune times. to do diagnostic work like this, you normally need an issue that involves a check engine light, or the truck being towed or flatbedded in. you are driving up with a seemingly perfect truck. the service manager has a right to be suspicious about your issue. hence why you offer to recreate the issue with a tech on board. if he says you have to pay for an hour of diagnostic time, say ok, no problem. you'll get it back with the warranty claim. if he resists you, OFFER to pay for the diagnostic time. whatever it takes to get the apt. and get the tech in the truck with you.

so, you get the apt. you are gonna have a copy of a ford TSB that i am gonna send you. print it off, and read it very carefully and understand it. we can talk more about it before the big day. have the TSB with you. work the truck just like to you this last time with your edge plugged in. so the truck will be HOT when you get to the dealer. shut it OFF at the dealer, don't let it idle. tech gets in, you unplug your insight, he plugs in laptop. you pull out of the dealership and then you TALK TO THE TECH about how you have seen oil over 15 degrees hotter than the coolant, and you read about how that is a big issue in oil cooler / EGR cooler failure, and you are worried about it. ask him to make sure he is diesel engine oil temp and coolant temp parameters on his laptop up and running for him to see. if he is a good tech, he already will have them up. if not, he will put them up. you head out on the road and WAIL on the truck. you won't be able to see what he is seeing, but do what you did this last time to get the temps up. he should see and be able to confirm the spread. ask him to verbally confirm the spread to you in the truck. ask him if he is aware of the TSB on this. again, he should be. but if he is not, when you get back to the dealership, show him your copy of the TSB. remember, the tech will get paid warranty labor to do the work under the warranty. period. he or she gets the work and gets paid, period. it is the service manager that has to APPROVE the warranty work, and the tech has to tell the service manager that he actually witnessed the spread and that you have a vaild issue. then the service manager has to deal with the paperwork and maybe deal with the FORD regional rep if the dealership as an abnormally high amount of warranty work coming in on a regular basis. the problem now with some 6.0L warranty claims is the fact that early on, there were many FALSE claims, or repeat claims when the problems were less understood. so now ford watches for dealers that might be abusing the system, and he (the service manager) will have to deal with that. a real pain in the a$$ for him, potentially.

the tech will have confirmed via diagnostics your temp spread. the TSB is clear: over 15 AT ANY POINT while under load with coolant over 190 is grounds for a warranty repair on the oil cooler core. they also need to test the EGR cooler for compromise. it sounds to me like your EGR cooler is just fine. that the issues with the oil cooler have not progressed to the point of EGR cooler cascading failure. but they will check it for you. they will then flush the system with VC-9 iron cleaner and replace the coolant with fresh coolant. i would also have them replace the thermostat while they are in there. it won't be covered under the warranty unless the tech puts it in, and if he does think there is any issue with the tstat, then i would suggest you just tell them to replace it and you will pay for that. it is small money to know that the greater part of the cooling system is brand new.

i think you gave me your email earlier in this thread.... let me did up that TSB.....then i am going to the beach and gonna dig some clams !!!!!
paul


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

looking back in the thread, i do not see email...what is it ? PM me....
also, has the coolant system EVER been serviced ? you did not mention it....
paul


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## luverofpeanuts (Mar 9, 2010)

willingtonpaul said:


> looking back in the thread, i do not see email...what is it ? PM me....
> also, has the coolant system EVER been serviced ? you did not mention it....
> paul


Hey Paul, can you shoot me a copy of that TSB when you get a chance, good info to have. ;-)


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## snickers (Nov 1, 2009)

willingtonpaul said:


> looking back in the thread, i do not see email...what is it ? PM me....
> also, has the coolant system EVER been serviced ? you did not mention it....
> paul


 Hey Paul,

My e-mail is [email protected]

I am planning to have the cooling system flushed before my trip to the Smokies in September.

Thk's for getting back to me.

Bob


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

i posted the TSB to my Iwork online account, and invited both of you to be able to see it. i have never done this before (new macbook) so i hope i did it correctly. emails were sent to both of you, post back that you can see it.

and bob, i forgot about that smokey mountain trip that you were doing before going west. that will be a good test for the oil cooler. have the coolant system flushed properly (make sure they test nitrites before the flush, to see if the VC-9 component needs to be done before new coolant is put in).


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## snickers (Nov 1, 2009)

willingtonpaul said:


> i posted the TSB to my Iwork online account, and invited both of you to be able to see it. i have never done this before (new macbook) so i hope i did it correctly. emails were sent to both of you, post back that you can see it.
> 
> and bob, i forgot about that smokey mountain trip that you were doing before going west. that will be a good test for the oil cooler. have the coolant system flushed properly (make sure they test nitrites before the flush, to see if the VC-9 component needs to be done before new coolant is put in).


 Paul,

Thk's for the e-mail. Will keep you posted. Got to go but I have another question that I will save for latter today or tommorrow.

Have a Great Day.

Bob


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## snickers (Nov 1, 2009)

snickers said:


> i posted the TSB to my Iwork online account, and invited both of you to be able to see it. i have never done this before (new macbook) so i hope i did it correctly. emails were sent to both of you, post back that you can see it.
> 
> and bob, i forgot about that smokey mountain trip that you were doing before going west. that will be a good test for the oil cooler. have the coolant system flushed properly (make sure they test nitrites before the flush, to see if the VC-9 component needs to be done before new coolant is put in).


 Paul,

Thk's for the e-mail. Will keep you posted. Got to go but I have another question that I will save for latter today or tommorrow.

Have a Great Day.

Bob
[/quote]

Hi Paul,

Sorry I havn't got back to you.............been out of town and working...you know how that is.

The 350 is going in thursday to have the cooling system flushed and do the nitrite test test. Will keep you posted on that. We will see what they say.

The pictures that you sent me of the Edge and the fuel pressure gauge, I assume was without the trailer, is that corrrect? And what do you have on the other (3) screens.

My screen 1 has bar graph of ect and eot, just like you recommended.
screen 2 has ect, eot trans temp, and egt.
screen 3 has ect, eot,trans temp, and boost.
screen 4 is just like yours. Good suggestion.

Any recommendations?

Again thanks for all your help. You have a friend in Florida.
I'm going to post a new subject on the forum under towing. This group is getting quite long.

Bob and snickers.


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

hi bob:

no problem. i am lucky right now in that i am camping. will be heading up to the acadia rally next week right off of this vacation on cape cod.

tranny temp for me is always rock solid. the 2nd generation torqueshift is a great tranny. i seldom look at the temp. my favorite screen is EOT, ECT, boost, and EGT. even though i have a boost gauge in the odometer, i like to see the digital readout under load. i have a 6 function setup. it is:

ENGINE LOAD %
IAT1 (intake air temp, 1st sensor)
EGT
ECT
cmd EGR % (command EGR percentage)
EOT

the command EGR percentage shows you how much the onboard system is telling the EGR to be open. if the EGR valve is functioning properly, it will be open that much. it is interesting to watch. with this screen, i look at how much load the engine is under, the air temp coming in, the exhaust temp, the coolant temp, the amount the EGR valve is commanded to be open, and the oil temp. it is interesting to watch the oil and coolant temps spike up a bit when the EGR is commanded open to the max of 29.6%. the EGR valve helps emissions, but it sure makes the engine work harder, raise fluid temps, and kill fuel mileage. there is alot going on in this setup, but it is interesting. the bar graph is nice too. those are my screens.

and yes, that photo is empty. i weigh a little over 8500lbs. empty, with my tool box and genset in the bed.

there have been many reports on the diesel boards of temp spreads WIDENING after a coolant flush. it's like scale is broken loose and then trapped in the oil cooler after the flush. you have not put on a coolant filter yet, right ? we'll see what happens to you, and if they do it correctly with the nitrite test before the flush for the VC-9 use. if this is your first flush on the coolant, then it is way overdue.

looking forward to hearing about it.


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## snickers (Nov 1, 2009)

willingtonpaul said:


> hi bob:
> 
> no problem. i am lucky right now in that i am camping. will be heading up to the acadia rally next week right off of this vacation on cape cod.
> 
> ...


Hi Paul,

Well the 350 was flushed with what they call BG Chemical. It appears that the oil temp is running a little cooler 
maybe a degree or so. I also had them replace the lower Radiator hose. I think so far so good. Can you please send me the link for the coolant filter. Would appreciate it. Won't be able to install it until I get back from the Smokies though. By the way I really like the Edge monitor.

Have a Great Day!
Bob and Snickers.


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

hi bob:

glad it is so far so good. i have heard of the stuff they used. i hope it works. there have been mixed reviews of it from what i have read. some claiming that it did the trick beautifully, while others say it was a was of money. i hope you are in the first category of course. ford's official position for their warranty claims is that there is no way to clean out the oil cooler core, hence the TSB and creation of the core swap vs. having the entire oil cooler assembly taken out. quick frankly and with all due respect, i think the dealership just sold you another extra by not using the VC-9. did they check the nitrite level and give you any commentary on the results and the reasoning for the BG chemical use ? i hope i am wrong, and would love to learn something new if they have found a better way, so keep me posted of course, and please elaborate on anything else they did to the truck / reasoning they used for the BG chemical use. and i am glad you like the edge. think about when you were driving the truck "blind" before. i can't imagine not having it.

i posted the link to the dieselsite coolant filter earlier in the thread, it goes right to the cooler.

or here is just the main site:

www.dieselsite.com

search for the 6.0L version of the coolant filter.

safe travels to the smokies.


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## snickers (Nov 1, 2009)

willingtonpaul said:


> hi bob:
> 
> glad it is so far so good. i have heard of the stuff they used. i hope it works. there have been mixed reviews of it from what i have read. some claiming that it did the trick beautifully, while others say it was a was of money. i hope you are in the first category of course. ford's official position for their warranty claims is that there is no way to clean out the oil cooler core, hence the TSB and creation of the core swap vs. having the entire oil cooler assembly taken out. quick frankly and with all due respect, i think the dealership just sold you another extra by not using the VC-9. did they check the nitrite level and give you any commentary on the results and the reasoning for the BG chemical use ? i hope i am wrong, and would love to learn something new if they have found a better way, so keep me posted of course, and please elaborate on anything else they did to the truck / reasoning they used for the BG chemical use. and i am glad you like the edge. think about when you were driving the truck "blind" before. i can't imagine not having it.
> 
> ...


Hi Paul,

I'll start by saying that you were right about the ect hunting a little bit, but it has settled down. Just did it a couple of times. As far as what happened at Ford. I showed them my spreadsheet and the Service Advisor and the Mechanic both said that I was in a acceptable range on both temperatures and no higher than a 20 degree temp. diferance between the coolant and the oil.220 m/222 max on the coolant and 230/232 max. on the oil was the not to 
exceed range.

I asked them about doing a nitrite test and using t-9 and both said that the condition of my anti-freeze that the test was not needed, and that BG was what they used and they both reccomended it. They both said to log my temps. on my Smokies trip and that if needed they will take care of my EGR and my oil cooler when I get back. I have to respect their opinions because they have covered items when it was in for extended warranty work that I would of had to pay for otherwise.
So like I said, I will have to see what happens. Both of them have been extremely outstanding to me. in fact Ted the Diesel Mechanic won't let they other two Diesel mechanics work on my truck.

The coolant filter, is it hard to hook up? and does it come with a mtg. bracket? If you get a chance can I ask you to take a couple of close up pictures and forward them to me?
Like I said I am going to install it after I get back.

Thk's Paul
Have a Great Day.
Bob


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

having confidence in your mechanic and them doing right by you are hard to find things, so i am glad you have both of them. sounds like they have experience and a game plan in place, and i look forward to seeing how it all plays out. like i said, i am open to learning more, maybe they have figured some stuff out down there in the FL heat that us newenglanders have missed so far. and i am looking forward to your temp logging on the smokies trip to see where you are now. that will be a great test prior to the real deal in the rockies.

the coolant filter is a piece of cake to put in. did you see the series of photographs on the dieselsite website ? that is the standard configuration, with the filter mounted off one of the support bolts for the radiator. i can take more close ups of mine, but i had to modify it, by turing the filter 90 degrees to the left, and adding some elbows and re-running the lines, to allow room for my bypass oil filter. you won't have to do any of that, unless of course you do the bypass oil filter.

the kit comes with excellent instructions from dieselsite. it should take you no more than 45 mins to put it in. the only part of the install that is messy or a pain is when you cut the radiator hose to install the aluminum bypass T. it is kinda hard to get your hands in there, and you lose a little coolant when you do it, so throw some old towels or a tarp under your truck. really really easy to put in. and you only lose a tiny amount of coolant, nothing to have to replace or get worried about.

i am up in acadia, ME right now at the outbackers rally here. what a great group that got together. we are having a blast so far and have met some outstanding people, in person for a change ! and it is a very diverse cross section of trucks. plenty of all brands and years, and there are more kayaks up there than i have ever seen in once place, INCLUDING cabelas !


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## Sandlapper (Apr 12, 2010)

I may be a little late on this conversation, but i'll chime in anyway. I have a 325 FRE fifth wheel and i'm pulling it with a F-250, '06 6.0 powerstroke and I have no problems what so ever with it. Thats plenty of muscle to pull that camper up the mountains and glide down the flat roads, with it being a mid profile. I live here in South Carolina, and i've traveled all over the North Carolina mountains and that powerstroke does the job like a champ. I do use tow haul mode in the mountains and thats a great thing. He's got even more truck, being a F-350. Hope it works out great for him.


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

sandlapper, thanks for chiming in. i am glad that your '06 is treating you right, it's great to hear the good news. i love mine, too !
happy trails....


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## Up State NY Camper (Apr 7, 2010)

Sounds like an awsome trip! Enjoy Alaska.


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## snickers (Nov 1, 2009)

Sandlapper said:


> I may be a little late on this conversation, but i'll chime in anyway. I have a 325 FRE fifth wheel and i'm pulling it with a F-250, '06 6.0 powerstroke and I have no problems what so ever with it. Thats plenty of muscle to pull that camper up the mountains and glide down the flat roads, with it being a mid profile. I live here in South Carolina, and i've traveled all over the North Carolina mountains and that powerstroke does the job like a champ. I do use tow haul mode in the mountains and thats a great thing. He's got even more truck, being a F-350. Hope it works out great for him.


 Good Morning Mr. Sandlapper,

Just got back from your State...........it's beautifull. See my post from yesterday about Back from the Smokies.

Have a great day.

"Snickers" and Bob


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