# Keystone Junk



## fspieg (Jul 31, 2006)

Well I was hopping Keystone had the delaminating issue resolved by the time we bought our 2007 27RLS last Aug but was wrong. DW and I removed the cover yesterday and could not believe the mess on the front end. Blisters in the fiberglass all over the front. Called the dealer and no problem getting it repaired as soon as the yard dries out enough to get it out. I'm so upset over this I'm betting when it goes back to the dealer for repairâ€™s this time it doesn't come back. We haven't used the trailer yet and already I've had about all I can take. The list of repairs is nearly three pages long. Can't imagine how big this list might be if we ever used this thing. I know you folks go on the defense of these things and that is certainly your right but we laid a lot of cash on the sales guy's desk and expected a lot more than what we got. Yes I'm rightfully upset and need to vent but quite honestly I don't find the term "Gilligan" to humorous right now.


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## bobpattie (Jul 23, 2005)

You are right to be upset and yes there are those of us that haven't had problems yet. Does make one wonder why some are having such major issues with the delam problem. We traded our 26 rks for a 30 rls last November - we had no issues with the rks and have not had nor used our rls yet so can't say there aren't any real problems. Will find out in the next month when we take it out of storage. It's nice that you can vent on this site and although we may not say what you want to hear venting does help. Keep us posted on how things work out and hopefully the dealership will be fair with you.

Pattie


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## klnks06 (Aug 11, 2006)

Wow, that is really disappointing to see that Keystone has still not fixed such a serious issue that was identified a while ago. We purchased our 2004 25RSS last summer, and have had no issue's with it so far. From reading all of the post on this web site about this delam issue, I am glad that we did not go ahead and spring for a new one. We are planning to upgrade to a 5th wheel sometime late this year, or early next year, and I am going to do my research before buying that 31FRKS that we really liked at the show last week.

I hope that your dealer is able to get everything fixed in a timely manor the first go around.

Kent


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

De lamination is one thing but 3 pages or items that need fixing?? They must be from the PDI, so it begs the question, why did you take it home?

A little insight into the other isssue would be very intersting.


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## Scrib (Jun 28, 2005)

fspieg said:


> DW and I removed the cover yesterday


Sorry to hear that - hope the dealer takes good care of you. I'm curious about the cover you used - what kind or brand was it?

Thanks - Roy


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

No one will defend shoddy workmanship on any unit. Many of us are on our second Outback and have had few problems. I also thought delam inssues were a thing of the past.

Please keep us informed as to what happens with the dealer and Keystone. Keystone reads the forum and realize bad press is not good for business. Most people researching this brand on the internet find us quickly.

John


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## ED_RN (Jun 25, 2006)

Sorry to here about your problems. I too thought the delam issue was resolved. We have a 2006 23RS and it sit's out in the sun 24/7 and I don't see any signs of this. Hopefully your dealer will take care of all your issues in a timely manner. I can understand your frustration. 
It would help if we knew what the other issues are. My thinking is most of these probably should have been found and fixed during the PDI, but it's hard to know. Keep us update on how things go.

Chris


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

I'm sorry to here about the problems, I know its got to suck. Don't know If it is any constellation at all but I had the delam problem had to get the front replaced and now it looks better than new. I'm shocked that the problem has shown up on a 2007 year model, I though they had changed meterals by then. I don't know what to say to make you feel any better and I doubt there is any thing thing at this point. But I really do feel for you and I do wish you lots of better luck.


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

Sorry to hear about all of your problems with your Outback. I can feel your pain. I guess I am one of the lucky ones...we only had minor stuff which was taken care of by the dealer without any real issues. The trailer has been great and we have taken camping everywhere and it still looks like new. We are so happy with our 28RSS that we purchased another Outback...this time a Sydney.

Keep us posted on how the repairs go.

Thor


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Last year, the delam issue was blamed on a bad batch of glue. I wonder if Keystone is still sticking to that story?

I am very sorry to hear about your troubles...We too had the beginnings of bubbles starting to form on our 2006 28krs. Our dealer caught it and had the entire front panel replaced while the TT was in for warranty repairs.

Please keep us posted, 
We're here for you


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

fspieg,

Sorry to hear about your delam issue! The thing that has me scratching my head is the fact that you had it covered, and still are having the issue. Very odd indeed? In any case, you are still under warranty, and given a chance, Keystone will make it right for you. That's probably little consolation at the moment, but give them a chance, before you give up. I do know that once you get out there and start using your Outback, it's all going to seem a lot better!

Hang in there!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## bweiler (Sep 20, 2005)

Keystone rep told me about the bad batch of glue as well. Hope you have a good dealer to help you thru the process - but 3 pages of issues tends to point towards some PDI problems. Lots of great posts on the site to direct you to some Keystone service centers if you can't work things out with the dealer you purchased from. Good luck and hang in there - give em a chance to get it right and document each step of the way.


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## MattS (Oct 15, 2006)

We have discovered a delam issue over our wheel well on our 2007 25RSS. I hope it's not a start of a trend.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

fspieg said:


> Well I was hopping Keystone had the delaminating issue resolved by the time we bought our 2007 27RLS last Aug but was wrong. DW and I removed the cover yesterday and could not believe the mess on the front end. Blisters in the fiberglass all over the front. Called the dealer and no problem getting it repaired as soon as the yard dries out enough to get it out. I'm so upset over this I'm betting when it goes back to the dealer for repairâ€™s this time it doesn't come back. We haven't used the trailer yet and already I've had about all I can take. The list of repairs is nearly three pages long. Can't imagine how big this list might be if we ever used this thing. I know you folks go on the defense of these things and that is certainly your right but we laid a lot of cash on the sales guy's desk and expected a lot more than what we got. Yes I'm rightfully upset and need to vent but quite honestly I don't find the term "Gilligan" to humorous right now.


Sorry to hear about your problems. I think I'd be a rather upset - no, make that really mad - if I had a list of problems as long as you indicate. We just bought our 29BHS last last August, as well, from Pontiac RV. Is this your dealer, too? We only had one major problem - the water pump would not shut off - the day after we brought it home. I took it back the next weekend (after calling and making an appointment) and they replaced the pump, no questions asked, while I waited. In an hour, I was back on the road and headed for home.

But I have to ask, "Why did you cover it for the winter?" When we bought our first trailer (a Coleman pop-up), the dealer told us, "never put a cover on it." They admonished us that the unit is built to endure the elements, including "breathing," and a cover compromises some of that breathing ability. Not only does a cover keep moisture out, but it holds it in, as well. And when the sun shines on it, it can superheat.

I don't know if they were correct or not, but we never covered either of our pop-ups, nor our Outback, and we've had no problems in these regards. (Our Outback dealer said nothing, though, about covering it being good, bad, or indifferent.)

I sure hope that you can get this mess straightened out. Give your dealer a chance to make things right, but if the dealer won't work with you, I'd contact Keystone. Document everything! Maybe even drop a note to the Good Sam magazine, "Highways." They often times have gotten results from manufacturers when the singular customer could not. Trust me, Keystone would not want this dirty laundry aired in a nationwide forum dedicated to RV owners. I'm sure they've already viewed your complaints in this forum already and won't want it taken to a forum outside that of current Outback owners.

Good luck!

Mike


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## FraTra (Aug 21, 2006)

I had read about these problems before I bought mine and I understood the problem was supposed to be resolved. What is the manufacture date of your unit? I remember reading that the problem stretched into the first few months of 2007. I was talking to one of the techs when I was taking delivery and he told me they were getting units directly from the factory with delam and fixing them before they sold the units. He told me in September that they had not seen any problem units for 3 months or so. Mine was made in August so my fingers are crossed. I am paranoid and check it all the time.

I am really sorry about you problems. I had some leak issues with mine that was very stressfull to deal with so I know some of what your going thru. I have decided that if I have any more major issues I'm trading it ASAP and take a big loss.

Good Luck and feel free to vent any time.


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## 4ME (Sep 11, 2006)

Take a look at how many people have read this thread!
I would also inform the dealer of this site if they are not already aware.
Let them know you will be posting the treatment you receive in resolving this issue.


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

Truely sorry to hear what you are going through
I really can't blame you for being upset
Atleast its under warranty I would atleast give them a chance to make it your in your eyes
Keep us updated on everything

Don


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## Travelers (Apr 6, 2006)

Our 2006 also developed a delam issue with the front cap and since we purchased from Lakeshore, I was not expecting the local dealer to be real helpful. But he got me in right away and got approval from Keystone to replace the cap and it was completed in a couple of weeks - thanks Landey's.

Work with your dealer and Keystone to get everything fixed to your satisfaction and settle for nothing less. Keystone makes some of the best looking campers out there - they just need to get their quality control standards back.

Good luck and keep us informed.


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

That bad batch of glue lasted 3 model years????

Keystone needs to re-look at their manufacturing processes. They are selling a lot of trailers which means defects will pop up more often, just simple math. But once you see those defects showing up more often then you just have to change what your doing. That is what good manufacturers do!


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Bummer.

I won't make excuses for Outback and all of this info will weigh in when it's time to make a switch in the RV we own. Yes we love Outbacks, but not under any circumstances.

Best of luck to you getting it fixed.


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## daves700 (Jun 12, 2006)

I had delam and a hot water heater problem within 3 months of owning the unit. But I will say delaer helped me and I have since enjoyed my OB. I was getting upset at it too, but it is worth the hassle. I love the diamond plate front the delaer put on and I have had zero issues with the water heater since it was fixed....

Alot of it comes down to the dealer, give them the chance to make it right, if they don't then start the fight!


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## luv2rv (Jun 21, 2004)

Fingers crossed here as well. No serious issues to date and no delam.

Good luck getting it fixed.

Wayne


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## fspieg (Jul 31, 2006)

Wow!! If nothing else I know how to get your attention. Sorry it's taken a few day's to get back to this but it's taken a while to get it out of our back yard. So much rain you can barely walk on it let alone pull a trailer through it. Anyway we got it out and back to the dealer, 80 miles away, last Monday. They were very apologetic and we all agreed most of these items would not have been found during a normal PDI. I did not mention the fact that hundreds of folks are eagerly awaiting the outcome. I just did not think it was correct to intimidate them before they are giving a fare chance to correct the issues. The good news is they already have all of the materials in stock to do the job (I wonder why) and hope to have it completed by Fri. of this week. I know I said there was a good chance it wouldn't come home, well guess what, DW won but it sure cost her







. I'll post the story about the new TV under towing. Thanks for allowing me to vent I have confidence it will all come out well. Stay tuned.

Almost forgot for those who wanted to know:

Built 05/06 titled as 07 purchased mid Aug.
Both the dealer and Keystone agreed the ADCO cover had nothing to do with the delamination.

Rick


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

fspieg said:


> Wow!! If nothing else I know how to get your attention. Sorry it's taken a few day's to get back to this but it's taken a while to get it out of our back yard. So much rain you can barely walk on it let alone pull a trailer through it. Anyway we got it out and back to the dealer, 80 miles away, last Monday. They were very apologetic and we all agreed most of these items would not have been found during a normal PDI. I did not mention the fact that hundreds of folks are eagerly awaiting the outcome. I just did not think it was correct to intimidate them before they are giving a fare chance to correct the issues. The good news is they already have all of the materials in stock to do the job (I wonder why) and hope to have it completed by Fri. of this week. I know I said there was a good chance it wouldn't come home, well guess what, DW won but it sure cost her
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Glad to hear postive movement from the Dealer and backed by Keystone.

Map Guy


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## jedmunson (Apr 14, 2006)

DW sounds like a good woman and you sound like a good negotiator







I will be off to see what TV you have now....

I find that people that allow people to make mistakes and correct them and not throw in the towel to be good people, especially when it involves something of this significance. You are definately Outbacker material.

WELCOME and I hope she comes home better than new...

Jennifer


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

Sounds like you're getting the same great treatment I got from the same dealer when I had a problem. No questions asked - prompt fix!

I'm much happier with Pontiac RV than the local Peoria SOB dealers, even considering the 160 mile round trip. They gave us a great deal and have treated us right ever since.

Hope you get your OB home soon so you can get it out and go camping!

Mike


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Glad to hear progress is being made on the problems. Keep us informed as to how they do.

John


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## battalionchief3 (Jun 27, 2006)

So far I have not seen any delam outside. I have a little spot inside on the ceiling though. Its not water, I checked.

OK, Out of the thousands ( I assume ) outbacks that are made, how many have had a delam prob? Were probally a small group of owners compared to total sold. Why do some do it and some dont. Bad batch of glue or malfunctioning machine's or poor work. I assume someone or something sprays glue on and runs it through a press. Is this a huge nationwide problem? Each year thousands of cars are made on an assembly line and how many get the lemon law and why? Same line, different day. Wierd....


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

battalionchief3 said:


> So far I have not seen any delam outside. I have a little spot inside on the ceiling though. Its not water, I checked.
> 
> OK, Out of the thousands ( I assume ) outbacks that are made, how many have had a delam prob? Were probally a small group of owners compared to total sold. Why do some do it and some dont. Bad batch of glue or malfunctioning machine's or poor work. I assume someone or something sprays glue on and runs it through a press. Is this a huge nationwide problem? Each year thousands of cars are made on an assembly line and how many get the lemon law and why? Same line, different day. Wierd....


When I worked on jets in the Navy, we had a term for mysteries such as this.....Gremlins.

When things started to work again without any explanation.....FM ------- Magic. I let you fill in the expletive...after all, we were sailors.

Tim


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## Lazybonz(aka Bill) (Sep 23, 2006)

OK all
My 2 cents...

Nothing is perfect.
I visit forums for several different vehicles I own. My Duramax truck, my motorcycle, Outback, Ford...you name it there is a forum for it. And you can find the same level of product complaints on each.
Without an exception, for any product made, there will be a certain amount of defect...period.

For me...I accept it. All anyone can expect is reasonable warrenty service after the sale. Thats why stuff comes with a warrenty. Its great when everything works properly..but it is equally great when the warrenty is honored in a timely manner when problems occur.

Probelms don't = junk!

Bill


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

I agree with Bill.
My OUTBACK was plagued with problems after I got it. I sometimes made 3 trips to the dealer to fix something before it was right. 
We've still got a gremlin here and there...but overall it's still making us happy campers.

Good luck on your fixes...hope your service dept is better than mine.
It's all good in the end.


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