# Need Battery Help



## Wyo-Backer (Apr 1, 2011)

I'm heading out on the shakedown trip this weekend. I had the OB plugged in all night. Unplugged it this morning and the battery was dead. I purchased the camper used in February. We are the 3rd owners. It is in great shape, but I suspect the battery is the original. I suspect I need to replace the battery. Aside from a dead battery, what other problems should I be looking for? Thanks in advance.


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## Dan Borer (Feb 6, 2009)

Is the battery completely dead where noting 12 volt works or does stuff come on dim and go out right away? If trailer is completely dead when unplugged then you want to check the one or two circuit breakers mounted on the frame near the battery box. It's not unusual for corrosion to form there or the breakers to fail. If you have power when plugged in but a dead battery it could also be the converter is not charging the battery. Also pull the caps off the battery and make sure electrolyte level is over the tops of the plates in each cell. If low, top off with distilled water.

Good luck and let us know what you find.


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## Wyo-Backer (Apr 1, 2011)

Dan Borer said:


> Is the battery completely dead where noting 12 volt works or does stuff come on dim and go out right away? If trailer is completely dead when unplugged then you want to check the one or two circuit breakers mounted on the frame near the battery box. It's not unusual for corrosion to form there or the breakers to fail. If you have power when plugged in but a dead battery it could also be the converter is not charging the battery. Also pull the caps off the battery and make sure electrolyte level is over the tops of the plates in each cell. If low, top off with distilled water.
> 
> Good luck and let us know what you find.


Dan,

Thanks for the quick response. I'll check the battery levels this evening after work. Stuff does come on, but really dim. For example, the water pump switch dimly illuminates, however ceiling lights don't come on. So probably not the circuit breakers on the frame? Also, is there a quick way to determine the converter is bad, or just process of elimination?


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

Don't forget that even if the breakers are off there are still 12v components that can draw from the battery. The only way to make sure it isn't getting pulled down is to isolate the battery from the trailer. Another problem is temperature. You are in Wyoming right? Is it really cold there right now? If so the charger on the outback may not have enough output to warm the battery to the point that it will charge. If all else fails, use a car battery charger. Just be sure to disconnect from the trailer. If you remove the battery and charge it in the garage, isolate it from the concrete floor with some wood blocks. The concrete will suck the heat out as fast as the charger can put it in.


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## Wyo-Backer (Apr 1, 2011)

thefulminator said:


> Don't forget that even if the breakers are off there are still 12v components that can draw from the battery. The only way to make sure it isn't getting pulled down is to isolate the battery from the trailer. Another problem is temperature. You are in Wyoming right? Is it really cold there right now? If so the charger on the outback may not have enough output to warm the battery to the point that it will charge. If all else fails, use a car battery charger. Just be sure to disconnect from the trailer. If you remove the battery and charge it in the garage, isolate it from the concrete floor with some wood blocks. The concrete will suck the heat out as fast as the charger can put it in.


Thanks for the tip. I'm definitely in WYO, but is warming up by WYO standards, low of 37 last night. Will be mid to high 60's today. Battery is charging all day as well, so I can test the temperature theory this evening after work. I also forgot to mention that the battery did get completely drained this winter. Shortly after we bought it, the temps got really cold. Being a newbie, I left the battery connected and the trailer wasn't plugged in. I went to the camper after a few days and everything was completely dead. I then plugged it in for 24 hours (in the cold) and took the battery off and stored it in the garage on my work bench. As you suggest it may have never charged due to the cold. So, while i thought I was putting a charged battery in the garage for storage, it may have been sitting in the garage for a couple months.


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## CdnOutback (Apr 16, 2010)

Take a voltage reading before you plug it in and then again after you plug it in. If the voltage is higher then at least you know there is current coming to the battery from the converter. If the battery has been sitting for a long time without being charged there is a good chance it has sulfated. A good rule of thumb is to keep the voltage above 12.5 volts at all times. When you have it stored for the winter, check the voltage regularly and hook it up to a charger whenever it gets down to 12.5. That way you will stop the sulfation process. When you use the battery while camping, make sure it charged up all the way before you put it away again. If you are doing short drives while towing there is a good chance the altenator did not charge the battery all the way up. Always wait 4 - 5 hours after taking the battery off charge before you read the voltage as it takes a while for the surface charge to dissipate. When I was selling batteries for a living, the most common issue was that people did not keep their batteries charged over the winter. Of course, I do live in an area where the winters are EXTREMELY long. Yours would be a little bit shorter. A fully charged battery will not freeze until its about -60 but a discharged battery will freeze at 32f.

Hope this is of some help to you..
Len


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## Wyo-Backer (Apr 1, 2011)

CdnOutback said:


> Take a voltage reading before you plug it in and then again after you plug it in. If the voltage is higher then at least you know there is current coming to the battery from the converter. If the battery has been sitting for a long time without being charged there is a good chance it has sulfated. A good rule of thumb is to keep the voltage above 12.5 volts at all times. When you have it stored for the winter, check the voltage regularly and hook it up to a charger whenever it gets down to 12.5. That way you will stop the sulfation process. When you use the battery while camping, make sure it charged up all the way before you put it away again. If you are doing short drives while towing there is a good chance the altenator did not charge the battery all the way up. Always wait 4 - 5 hours after taking the battery off charge before you read the voltage as it takes a while for the surface charge to dissipate. When I was selling batteries for a living, the most common issue was that people did not keep their batteries charged over the winter. Of course, I do live in an area where the winters are EXTREMELY long. Yours would be a little bit shorter. A fully charged battery will not freeze until its about -60 but a discharged battery will freeze at 32f.
> 
> Hope this is of some help to you..
> Len


Len, thanks a lot very helpful for a guy like me who is on a steep learning curve when it comes to batteries and otherwise camping with a travel trailer. It is likely the battery froze, as it was most likely dead and the temps were well below 0 F. Is the battery salvageable? I'll definitely be taking some voltage readings this evening.

This is a great web site!

Jim


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

CdnOutback said:


> Take a voltage reading before you plug it in and then again after you plug it in. If the voltage is higher then at least you know there is current coming to the battery from the converter. If the battery has been sitting for a long time without being charged there is a good chance it has sulfated. A good rule of thumb is to keep the voltage above 12.5 volts at all times. When you have it stored for the winter, check the voltage regularly and hook it up to a charger whenever it gets down to 12.5. That way you will stop the sulfation process. When you use the battery while camping, make sure it charged up all the way before you put it away again. If you are doing short drives while towing there is a good chance the altenator did not charge the battery all the way up. Always wait 4 - 5 hours after taking the battery off charge before you read the voltage as it takes a while for the surface charge to dissipate. When I was selling batteries for a living, the most common issue was that people did not keep their batteries charged over the winter. Of course, I do live in an area where the winters are EXTREMELY long. Yours would be a little bit shorter. A fully charged battery will not freeze until its about -60 but a discharged battery will freeze at 32f.
> 
> Hope this is of some help to you..
> Len


 Len is right on the money. I had battery maintenance shops I was in charge of while in the Navy. SLABs (Sealed Lead Acid Batteries) NiCad, Lead Acid etc.

In addition to the good advice, check the manufacture date. It is usually on the top of the battery. Dependant on battery type, how it was maintaned (or not), after 3 years it is a good idea to give the battery a hard look.

In the winter, I take the batteries out, bring them into the cellar and put them on a wood plank or plywood. I have a trickle charger that I periodically turn on to maintain the batteries. This helps to keep them conditioned. The trickle charger need not be anything fancy or expensive. the one I have is a $20 Craftsman special...

By what you are describing, essentially an LED coming on at the water pump switch only, there is barely enough current to drive that light. It sounds to me that the battery(s) have been exhausted.

A problem I had may be something you should check......

Follow your leads back from your battery. One lead is connected to the trailer frame. The other is connected to a terminal block that usually has a rubber cover over it close to where your E-Brake switch is.

Remove external power.

Disconnect the battery leads and remove the battery or isolate the leads so that they do not come back in contact with the battery terminals. Lift the white battery lead at its ground point on the frame. Inspect for corrosion. Clean the terminal lug and replace the hardware (grounding bolt) as necessary if corroded. Re-land the lifted white lead to the frame.

At the terminal post, remove the nuts and lockwashers, clean with a wire brush or replace as necessary. Clean the terminal posts and remove any corrosion. Clean the terminal lug(s) also with the wire brush and re-assemble the terminals. There is a spray parrafin that is available from most auto parts stores. Cover the newly cleaned terminals with the spray. This will reduce corrosion. It won't stop it but it will do a good job at keeping water and air from getting to the terminals helping to keep them corrosion free.

Clean the battery lugs as well ensuring they are free from corrosion. If necessary replace the battery. Reland the leads paying close attention to polarity.

Reapply external power.

On a voltmeter, DC volts, read DC voltage at the Battery terminals with battery cables attached and external power on. Voltage should read 12.5 VDC(+). If all is good spray the battery terminals with the paraffin spray and recover the battery box. This should at least last you till the end of the season.

Eric


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

egregg57 said:


> Follow your leads back from your battery. One lead is connected to the trailer frame. *The other is connected to a terminal block that usually has a rubber cover over it *close to where your E-Brake switch is.
> 
> Eric


That terminal block is the auto reset thermal breaker and if it is rusted at all then this can impede both use and charging.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

CamperAndy said:


> Follow your leads back from your battery. One lead is connected to the trailer frame. *The other is connected to a terminal block that usually has a rubber cover over it *close to where your E-Brake switch is.
> 
> Eric


That terminal block is the auto reset thermal breaker and if it is rusted at all then this can impede both use and charging.
[/quote]

That's correct!


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## Wyo-Backer (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the info. I will check the battery today over the lunch hour to check for progress, but I suspect I'll be using all the advice this evening to diagnose the problem.

While we're on the topic, what brand/size of 12V battery do you all recommend. I've read plenty about 12v vs. 6v, for now I plan to stay with a 12er. (Battery and beer!)


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## CdnOutback (Apr 16, 2010)

If the battery froze... it's probably toast...


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Wyo-Backer said:


> Thanks everyone for the info. I will check the battery today over the lunch hour to check for progress, but I suspect I'll be using all the advice this evening to diagnose the problem.
> 
> While we're on the topic, what brand/size of 12V battery do you all recommend. I've read plenty about 12v vs. 6v, for now I plan to stay with a 12er. (Battery and beer!)


 A 12V Marine or RV battery is fine. You can go with something a bit more robust or change to the 6 Volt batteries if you do a lot of dry camping. If you are one of the more run-of-the-mill types like myself, your primary concern is a battery strong enough to engage and hold your emergency brake should the pin be pulled.

Eric


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## Wyo-Backer (Apr 1, 2011)

egregg57 said:


> Thanks everyone for the info. I will check the battery today over the lunch hour to check for progress, but I suspect I'll be using all the advice this evening to diagnose the problem.
> 
> While we're on the topic, what brand/size of 12V battery do you all recommend. I've read plenty about 12v vs. 6v, for now I plan to stay with a 12er. (Battery and beer!)


 A 12V Marine or RV battery is fine. You can go with something a bit more robust or change to the 6 Volt batteries if you do a lot of dry camping. If you are one of the more run-of-the-mill types like myself, your primary concern is a battery strong enough to engage and hold your emergency brake should the pin be pulled.

Eric
[/quote]

Had not thought of the e-brake factor. If the battery is dead, which I'm convinced it is, I'll be taking a bit of a gamble towing it 150 miles this weekend.

I haven't put a multimeter to it yet, but when I unplugged the camper at lunch, the water pump light wouldn't come on at all, despite being plugged in for 18 hours. This morning, the light on the water pump switch at least came on.


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## Wyo-Backer (Apr 1, 2011)

Doesn't appear to be any corrosion anywhere. Topped the battery off with distilled water also. Checked the battery with the voltmeter. 12.38 with shore power, 12.36 without. Is this enough power difference to be charging the battery, or is it possible the converter is not charging the battery? Also checked power from the converter to the battery, at the converter-13.64.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Well you found the problem.

13.6 from the converter is normal charge voltage. Only getting 12.38 at the battery indicates there is a high resistance in the circuit. Find a clean ground near the battery then check the voltage at each connection in the circuit. This includes the negative terminal on the battery. I suspect you will read a one volt difference on the auto reset thermal breaker posts but you could have the issue at any point in the system.

If you have a hydrometer check the specific gravity of each cell in the battery, they only cost a few bucks and really help isolate if the battery is the issue.


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## CdnOutback (Apr 16, 2010)

The high resistance could also be from sulfation in the battery.


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## Wyo-Backer (Apr 1, 2011)

You guys have all been exceptionally helpful. Plethora of knowledge on this site. I'll check for resistance in the circuit this evening, hopefully. We are shaking down this weekend at the KOA in Billings, MT so I'll have shore power. I also plan to replace the battery while we're up there. Wish me luck. I dewinterized this week and have been getting the OB all packed and ready. Get the Equalizer hitch adjusted this evening and we'll be ready to roll. Thanks again.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Wyo-Backer said:


> You guys have all been exceptionally helpful. Plethora of knowledge on this site. I'll check for resistance in the circuit this evening, hopefully. We are shaking down this weekend at the KOA in Billings, MT so I'll have shore power. I also plan to replace the battery while we're up there. Wish me luck. I dewinterized this week and have been getting the OB all packed and ready. Get the Equalizer hitch adjusted this evening and we'll be ready to roll. Thanks again.


 It's what we do!


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## Wyo-Backer (Apr 1, 2011)

Well the shakedown trip went well, without any notable issues. We stayed at the KOA in Billings, Montana which is very nice. I replaced my battery with an energizer from Sam's Club ($65) - a temporary solution until i switch to 6 volts. As soon as the new battery was hooked up, i had power to the trailer and the meter on the trailer indicated the battery was 1/2 full. We were plugged in at the KOA overnight so the battery had plenty of time to charge, and it appeared that it did. It was full when we left the KOA. I left the battery hooked up overnight and will check again this evening to see how much the stereo and LP detector have drained it. Also I plan to check the battery with the voltmeter again to see if there is any difference with the new battery or if i still have some resistance in the circuit. How long do you all leave the battery connected to the trailer before either 1) plugging in to shore, or 2) taking the batter off and connecting to a charger?

We enjoyed the shakedown, and are happy with our choice in the 25rss. Highly recommend the Billings KOA.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Wyo-Backer said:


> Well the shakedown trip went well, without any notable issues. We stayed at the KOA in Billings, Montana which is very nice. I replaced my battery with an energizer from Sam's Club ($65) - a temporary solution until i switch to 6 volts. As soon as the new battery was hooked up, i had power to the trailer and the meter on the trailer indicated the battery was 1/2 full. We were plugged in at the KOA overnight so the battery had plenty of time to charge, and it appeared that it did. It was full when we left the KOA. I left the battery hooked up overnight and will check again this evening to see how much the stereo and LP detector have drained it. Also I plan to check the battery with the voltmeter again to see if there is any difference with the new battery or if i still have some resistance in the circuit. How long do you all leave the battery connected to the trailer before either 1) plugging in to shore, or 2) taking the batter off and connecting to a charger?
> 
> We enjoyed the shakedown, and are happy with our choice in the 25rss. Highly recommend the Billings KOA.


 I have kept my trailers plugged in while at home so I can't say how long they'll go. I have heard of dry campers having battery power for a weekend as long as they are watching what they use and how long they are using it. Friends of ours used to dry camp quite a bit and went to 2X 12 volts and had more than enough power for the weekend.

If the unit is not plugged in at home and everything is off, there should be limited drain. A new battery should tolerate this fine.

Eric


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Wyo-Backer said:


> How long do you all leave the battery connected to the trailer before either 1) plugging in to shore, or 2) taking the batter off and connecting to a charger?


I wouldn't recommend taking the battery off the Outback, simply to put it back on for each trip. There are many products available that will cut-off the power to the Outback...therebye avoiding the slow drain.

My setup is great, but it might be a bit overkill for your situation. You can buy a simple blade cut-off for under $10 and simply flip the blade to have/remove power.

Here is a link to my battery cutt-off switch....works GREAT!!


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## Wyo-Backer (Apr 1, 2011)

Oregon_Camper said:


> How long do you all leave the battery connected to the trailer before either 1) plugging in to shore, or 2) taking the batter off and connecting to a charger?


I wouldn't recommend taking the battery off the Outback, simply to put it back on for each trip. There are many products available that will cut-off the power to the Outback...therebye avoiding the slow drain.

My setup is great, but it might be a bit overkill for your situation. You can buy a simple blade cut-off for under $10 and simply flip the blade to have/remove power.

Here is a link to my battery cutt-off switch....works GREAT!!
[/quote]

Your battery switch looks great. I've been considering a switch, but probably just the blade as you suggest. Newbie question - Do I connect the blade to the positive or negative terminal?


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

Here is about the cheapest battery switch you can get. If I remember correctly, it was $4 st Walmart.


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## Wyo-Backer (Apr 1, 2011)

thefulminator said:


> Here is about the cheapest battery switch you can get. If I remember correctly, it was $4 st Walmart.


Thanks, I'll be looking at WallyWorld. Your disconnect is on the negative terminal right? It looks like you have two 12v batteries. Are you happy with that set up? I'm leaning towards 6v, but two 12's appears to be cheaper.


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

We have the same switch on ours and we got ours at Walmart - pretty sure it was around $4.

Yes, the switch is on the ground (negative) side.


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

Wyo-Backer said:


> Here is about the cheapest battery switch you can get. If I remember correctly, it was $4 st Walmart.


Thanks, I'll be looking at WallyWorld. Your disconnect is on the negative terminal right? It looks like you have two 12v batteries. Are you happy with that set up? I'm leaning towards 6v, but two 12's appears to be cheaper.
[/quote]

It might be nicer to have the switch where I wouldn't have to take off the propane cover to connect/disconnect the batteries but it doesn't bother me.

Yes, switch is on the negative terminal. Learned that when I worked in a battery shop. There is nothing like having the wrench you are using to loosen the bolt on the positive terminal contact the frame. There are sparks, smoke and foul language involved. When I remove the batteries for the season, I just leave half the switch on the battery and half on the negative cable by removing the bolt that connects to the green knob.


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