# About To Take The Plunge



## thunderbird (Aug 27, 2006)

OK, so I'm sure this is a typical story. My wife and 13-year-old son decided to cancel a scheduled vacation to London and points European because of the political climate this summer. While considering a backup plan, we thought maybe we should all go camping, which we all had experience with but had never done as a family. We live in central Virginia, so we decided to rent a Viking pop-up trailer and tow it behind our Cadillac Crossover 6 cylinder SRX, and off we went to the Smoky Mountains in western North Carolina. Had we taken the original trip, we would have been right in the chaos that unfolded when the London airliner terrorist plot was discovered.

Well, 10 days later we were pretty much hooked. We knew the pop-up wasn't for us, especially the Viking, but we did get introduced to Expendables, and thought we might go in that direction. Now, after a month of heavy online research and visiting several dealers and an RV show, we're pretty much sold on an Outback 29BHS. There's only three of us, so we don't feel we're wasting space on sleeping accommodations we won't need, we really like the off white dÃ©cor, the outside kitchen and other features, and feel that the storage area that's available under the bunk bed will be just big enough to throw in a moped or mini bike. We're psyched.

The dealer we're expecting to work with is McGeorge's Rolling Hills RV Supercenter in Ashland Virginia. This is an attractive dealership with a lot of inventory and they claim to be the biggest RV dealer in Virginia, which I believe. The sales staff was very nice and did a good job showing us the types of vehicles we were interested in and must have walked us through two dozen different vehicles before we found the one we likes. Then it was time to deal.

Well, they started with the usual MSRP which was around $27,500 and the Sales Manager came back with $22,917 plus $823 for the equalizer and brake controls installed: a total of $23.740 plus tax. We told them we would take the deal and put $1,000 down, but insisted on a clause that allowed us to cancel the contract within 72 hours for a fill refund if we decided that it wasn't a good deal. I'm an internet guy so I knew I would be able to find a lot of information once I started to research it.

After doing just that, I found this site, which is excellent, and now believe that the dealer has built in several thousand more in profit than I may find elsewhere. I've seen where some of you seemed to have picked up this model for around $19,000 with some extras that haven't been offered here. I'm aware that there are these RV "Superstores" around the country, and I wouldn't mind driving 1,000 miles to save thousands, but I also donâ€™t mind paying a bit of a premium to deal locally. I do worry that if I do buy elsewhere, McGeorges will be less than enthusiastic about doing warranty work, and they're the closest dealer at 50 miles from home. The next closest one is 100 miles away. I've also read some cautionary tales about this shop online.

Of course, we won't be towing this with that Cadillac SRX. We're about to flip that for a 2007 GMC Yukon Denali XL with a 6.0 liter V8 that puts out 380 HP and 417 Lbs-ft Torque at 4400 RPM. I'd like to get the 5.8 liter Flex Fuel engine, but the Denali is much more nicely equipped, and has a six-speed transmission, while the 5.8 liter only has a four speed. The claimed towing weight is 7900 pounds and the only axle ratio available is 3.42. The Outback weight is listed at just about 6,000 pounds so it would seem to be OK, but Iâ€™d certainly like other opinions.

So... the questions I'd like advice on are:

Â·	the deal that's on the table
Â·	the reputation of this dealer and the advisability of buying elsewhere
Â·	the tow vehicle we have in mind.

Obviously, the folks on this forum love their Outbacks and seem to have a world of experience so I'm hoping to get the benefit of that expertise before I go back to the dealer on Monday. I apologize for the long post, but Iâ€™m anxious to make the right decision and get on the road. Thanks!


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## Scrib (Jun 28, 2005)

We really like that floorplan, but this was our first trailer so we were a little worried about towing something that long.

In *my* opinion (I'm sure you'll get others







), the 26' is as long & heavy as you want to go with a 1/2 ton TV. Had we taken the plunge on the 29BHS, we would have picked-up an F250. As it was, we still had to trade our Durango in on an Expedition, in order to tow the 26RS.

Good luck, and welcome!


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

Welcome thunderbird to the group
Congrats on choosen the 29BHS the price seems high to me use LakeShore as a price lever to see id you can get a better deal
The Denail is very nice but if you plan on hitting the mountains I would look a bit bigger pulling the TT

Don


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## Mike2 (Jul 14, 2006)

I recently went through a similar TV/TT purchase and I know how interesting that could get. All I can tell you is take your time and don't be rushed into anything.

Regarding the deal, you may want to check out http://www.lakeshore-rv.com to get a baseline price. I found that this could be a good negotiating reference if you are in the east coast. Add a little bit of money on the west coast to account for transportation. I would think that the 72 hrs commitment is going to be tough for the dealer since the trailer would be used after you take it off the lot.

Regarding the tow-vehicle, I don't have any experience but I would leave myself a bit more room on the towing capacity specially if you plan on loading the Outback and/or towing in the mountains. Keep an eye on the wheelbase. That seems to make a significant difference when towing long TT. The idea situation would be to be able to rent a TV from the dealer to use to pickup and drive the TT around.

Regarding buying out of town, think about it twice. I bought mine out of town because I saved several thousands but on a 2K or so difference, it may not be worthwhile. I had several warranty issues w/ mine and problems adjusting hitch that have taken a lot of 'my' time to correct. It is interesting to get home after drive several hundred miles to find out that you have a major problem with the trailer.

This is a great floor plan and one we also considered. We went with something similar and less expensive but definitely not as nice. The idea of throwing a moped in the bunks area sounds great, just make sure it is not too heavy.

Mike


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## emaggio (Apr 9, 2006)

You certainly started off on the right foot choosing an Outback. But do you really need 29 feet? There are just 3 of you, and unless you are planning for more people might not be a bad idea to go shorter. My wife and I purchased a 21RS beginning of the year (and I don't mean you need a 21) and we are extremely pleased with the unit, and extremely happy I didn't go bigger. We have lots of mountains out here in the West, big ones. That thought was constantly on my mind during our recent roadtrip across the Sierras and Rockies to Glacier, Yellowstone and the Tetons. Shorter is good. Tighter turning, less weight, backing up easier, safer dealing with oncoming semis, autos on onramp converging traffic, easier handling...and a lot more. I learned a ton in 17 days. You get just about all the same amenities except space. So you really have to figure beforehand what you really need. The 3.42 axle ratio for a TV really seems low (I'm sure you'll get feedback on that from pros on this site- seems like 3.73 would be the minimum, or even higher with a 29). Go excess on power and axle ratio, shorter on trailer length and longer on TV wheelbase. By the way, there are many, many 26er folks on the website who appear to be extremely pleased with their units. Other than the 21, I would guess the 26 is very high on the list. Another consideration...I am not familiar with campgrounds on the east coast, but here in the western mountain areas it can be difficult to find campsites that can accommodate a 29ft trailer, let alone combined TV-TT length in a pull through. Pull-through length limits are usually 40ft. where you do not need to un-hitch.

Good luck to you, and as for the dealer, make sure you know in advance what they plan to install on your trailer re brake controls and hitches before you drive it home. Do your homework! They will go "cheapo" to save money unless you are explicit with your desires. Spend a lot of time reading this fab website. Many answers here to help you make your best decision. Also, if money isn't that critical, buy near home if you can. My dealer actually told me they put non-dealer buyers on a wait list and take care of their customers first. Others here have said the same. You have an advantage is you are mechanically inclined.

emaggio


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## battalionchief3 (Jun 27, 2006)

Welcome Thunderbird. We did the exact thing you did, except we had a suburban with a 5.3







. The 6.0 is a great engine but get the 4:11 rear it is much better. The starting and hills will put a hurtin' on you with the 3:42 rear. We now have a 8.1 liter suburban with a 4:11 rear and its amazing the power it has. We have the same camper and love it, i'm 6'3 and have decent room. We love the white cabinets and it has decent storage. The only problems we had was the A/C was loose and the ground bar had some loose screws and that was a 15 minute fix ( search the site, they helped me out with these ) . Now it is part of my routine maint. McGeorges is a little pricey, we over paid







but they are well established. The manager is scott and he is a decent man. We had to wait for half a day for a hitch the first time and he was very understanding and hooked us up with freebies for not acting like fools in the store. Haggle on the price and see what you get. Also get a better brake control, the one they include is crap. ( prodigey is the best ) The husky hitch is ok but the sway bar is a bit of a pain because of having to take it off for sharp corners and winding roads. Request Patch to do the walk around on the camper, hes young but very knowledgeable and goes into good detail. I have noticed that dealerships dont want to work on something if you didnt buy it from them, I saw on on the eastern shore that they would not do any warrenty work if not bought from them. McGeorges is a little slow on parts and labor but they are busy. I relate it to Harley dealers, Busy in the summer and dead in the winter. I schedule work on the bike in the winter and will do the same with the camper. Dec, Jan and Feb is a good time for working on them. I have heard horrible things and good from McGeorges, i had a decent experience with them and would probally do it again just haggle on the price more. I would also suggest buying the bigger truck before buying the camper, helps with the set-up of the hitch. At least make sure it would be in before picking up the camper. good luck and let us know how it turnes out.


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## thunderbird (Aug 27, 2006)

Great Feedback in just an hour! Keep it coming, I really appreciate it.

One question on the axle ratio... I'd gladly opt for a higher ratio, but that's all that seems to be available for this vehichle. I wonder if it can be changed out? Am I correct in assuming that the six speed transmission will make life easier, not that it's a substitute for the the axle ratio?

BattalionChief3, Scott is just who we dealt with and I agree that he does seem very decent. Also dealt with Doc. Is my price in the same ballpark as what you paid? Which hitch did you wind up with? What do you recomend?

Thanks again...


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## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

I have an 06 29BHS and it is a great unit for the 4 of us. I was towing with an 05 chevy crew cab1500 4x4 with the 5.3L and 3.42 rear. On flats it was good, any hills and it was not good. Changing to a 3.73 rear does not buy you anything, it is the same rating 7400Lbs. The 4.10's will give you 8400 lbs rating. I decided to trade in my 1 year old 1500 for a 2500Hd with the diesel. By far a much better match. If you like the vehicle go for the 4.10 don't settle for less or you will be disappointed.









Remember the 6000 lbs is empty, no people, no water, no gas, no food or other supplies.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Have to agree with the other comments on that 1/2 ton being just at the end of what I think it can tow. I'd highly recommend either a smaller Outback or getting the 3/4 ton TV.

Lakeshore is the best place to get some leverage from your local dealer. If your local dealer won't budge, then consider Lakeshore. You could quickly drive out there then take a 7 day vacation in your new Outback on the way home. Great way to break it in...


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## Chestnut (Aug 21, 2006)

Youâ€™re not too far from Reines RV in Manassas (also a Camping World retail store there). They price matched Lakeshore RV on a 28RSDS for us just a couple of weeks ago. No wait, we paid them a couple hundred more since we wouldnâ€™t have to make the trip or pay for transportation.

Jessica


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## thunderbird (Aug 27, 2006)

Hi Jessica,

I notice you're pulling that trailer with a Yukon XL. What motor do you have and what's the gear ration? Hows' that working?

Thanks!


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## dliles6254 (Jun 6, 2006)

thunderbird
Think hard about the TV, I wish I had found this site B4 I got mine. I do fine but I don't like short wheel base of my Tahoe. I do like that your looking at an XL, but take a look at a 2500hd. I'm going to make the change as soon as I can.


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## Chestnut (Aug 21, 2006)

thunderbird said:


> Hi Jessica,
> 
> I notice you're pulling that trailer with a Yukon XL. What motor do you have and what's the gear ration? Hows' that working?
> 
> Thanks!


Uh, itâ€™s big and goes â€œvroom vroomâ€. The TV is DHâ€™s department. Heâ€™s at work right now, or else Iâ€™d ask him.

I know we donâ€™t have a Â¾ ton so weâ€™re probably a little underpowered, but DH says it tows great and is comfortable with it. If we were in a position to buy a new TV, weâ€™d get the Â¾ ton but ours is only 2 years old.

Jessica


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## prevish gang (Mar 19, 2006)

I agree with the others about the tow vehicle. We got a 25RSS and tow with a Durango. No problems on flat land and thought that would be fine, but these Outbackers love to rally in the mountains and so we are looking for a new vehicle. Like the others said, 6000 is empty. You won't believe how quickly you add another 1000 pounds in dishes, clothes toiletries, chairs, grill, food etc even if you pull dry. Get the larger tow vehicle or at least a better gear ratio.

McGeorges seemed a little on the arrogant side to me. They weren't very good at helping me when I was looking so I went to Reines RV in Manassas. I was treated very well there and got a quick sale and delivery. The guys in the service dept were fantastic and everyone was so friendly too.

Glad to see another Virginian is joining in. We have a rally scheduled in Oct for Otter Lake and another in Ocean City MD you should consider joining up for. You think you loved camping before. Get together with a few fellow Outbackers and you will find a whole new family.

Darlene 
Williamsburg, VA


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## CJ999 (Aug 11, 2005)

Oregon_Camper said:


> Have to agree with the other comments on that 1/2 ton being just at the end of what I think it can tow. I'd highly recommend either a smaller Outback or getting the 3/4 ton TV.


I agree as well. I started towing my 28RSDS with a 1/2 ton Chevy and moved up to a 3/4 ton F250 Diesel. It feels WAY better.

I bought out of town and nothing went wrong with my trialer that I would have considered warranty stuff until the warranty was expired. Thats the story of my life! Some dealers can be slimy. I bought out of town because I thought the most local dealer seemed slimy, so I am sure they would have refused to do any warranty work.

Be leery of posted weights as well. Our 28RSDS has a "max" trailer weight of 7200 pounds. Loaded with only our basics, and without ANY water in any of the tanks, it weighs between 6800-7000 pounds (depends upon how much beer we bring!) If I had only one of the tanks full it would be "over" the manufacturers rating. If I filled all the tanks and added a mini bike, it would probably be well over 8000 pounds...


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## battalionchief3 (Jun 27, 2006)

No I paid a bit more then you are being offered, I didnt haggle but thats my fault and its too late now....I have the Husky Hitch with the weight dist hitch. It works well and I have seen other similar ones and i think the husky appears stronger but who knows. The swap control is just a friction type, same as all the others unless you get a Reese duel cam or Hensley. Their is a lot of threads on them in the hist. here.

Now with a six speed trans that may make a difference with the gear ratio but im not sure. Normally GM uses a 4 speed auto with the tow/haul feature. You can tow in OD per the owners manual and i do, I also use the cruise control on fairly flat roads. My trans temp gague never goes over 200 degrees loaded down, with the AC on and 5 people in the truck up hill in a head wind. I saw the 07 Yukon has a 6.0 engine but a 2wd in the 2500 range you can get the 4:10 rear . Im not sure what you have looked at but if you want to tow a 29BHS remember wheelbase is your friend, its harder to flip a long wheel base truck with a long trailer ( trust me, a jack knifed trailer happens quick when wheels lock up ) If you require a SUV type vehicle i strongly suggest a suburban or similar with a 4:11 rear and at least a 6.0 engine in the 2500 range ( the 2500 Denali is great too.) . The flex fuel i dont think is offered in a 6.0 but im not a GM salesman. Dont rely on the salesman for tech questions, go ask the tech in the shop for a real answers about towing and power. If you get a smaller camper as some have suggested then you can get a shorter SUV, I say go for the 29BHS. Why? Buy what you want the first time because look at the loss they take on a trade or to sell it a couple years later for a bigger one. Down on the farm we do it right or we dont do it......my 2 cents.


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

thunderbird,

Congrats on thinking Outback. I'm sure you will love this TT.

One thing, though, and this is just my opinion, I don't think the Yukon XL 1/2 ton is enough TV for that TT, espcially with a 3:42 rear end.

I'd go with 4:11. And a 3/4 ton.

Mark


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## battalionchief3 (Jun 27, 2006)

Hey Mark 
How do you like the 8.1 liter, 496 cubic inch big block? Besides the gas mileage, i think i could drag my house down the street


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

> Hey Mark
> How do you like the 8.1 liter, 496 cubic inch big block? Besides the gas mileage, i think i could drag my house down the street


I absolutely love that sucker! Power to spare.

Mark


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Hey thunderbird! I can't be much  any help with the TV but sure can WELCOME you to the tribe.

btw, the Towing Police were all over my case with a Toyota 4Runner (v8 Sport) and a 25RSS. We loved the TV and wanted the 25RSS - so we also invested in the Hensley. End result = we LOVE our rig and, by the end of Oct, we will have towed through all of the major mtn ranges in New England (lots!) and have not had so much as a cough from the 4Runner. You've clearly got the good sense to find the right TT - no question you'll make the right decisiion on the TT.


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## Lady Di (Oct 28, 2005)

Thunderbird,

Have you considered the 25rss? With just three of you that might even be an option. Sleeps 3-4 with no problem, and with the sofa slide out, it really opens up. That might take care of the weight issues.


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## happycamper (Jul 26, 2005)

GMC Yukon XL 2500 6.0L with 3.73 ratio here! 
Love it so far, especially the tow/haul feature.

I have over 80,000 miles on this 2002 TV so I am takin' it in for a radiator flush this Wednesday. 
I had some high temperatures (235F) in the cooling system travelling the long gradual hills 
of PA and NY on our last trip!







Hope a good flush remedies that problem.

Jim


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## CJ999 (Aug 11, 2005)

One other thing I have thought to add since my earlier post is that we never had a trailer before we bought the 28RSDS. We were enamored with it's roominess. However, that has been a bit of a negative from time to time we we have found that we are TOO LONG to fit into many campgrounds. This could be a left coast thing, but I wish I had known it before hand. I would have gotten a shorter trailer.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

CJ999 said:


> One other thing I have thought to add since my earlier post is that we never had a trailer before we bought the 28RSDS. We were enamored with it's roominess. However, that has been a bit of a negative from time to time we we have found that we are TOO LONG to fit into many campgrounds. This could be a left coast thing, but I wish I had known it before had. I would have gotten a shorter trailer.


Nope - not a west coast thing. That's exactly why we stuck with the 25RSS


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## Hokie (Jul 10, 2006)

Good luck with your purchase. I recently purchased a 23RS from McGeorges RV. I did quite a bit of research and finally was able to talk McGeorges into matching the Lakeshore RV price for my 23RS. I attempted to get Reines RV to do the same thing, but they would not match the price, they were about $1000 higher. Also, Reines RV has a fairly high dealer fee (around $400) vs McGeorges which is around $200.

I also purchased my Equal-i-zer hitch from RV Wholesalers for $399 which also saves quite a bit from getting it from the dealer.

McGeorges has gotten a pretty bad rap on this site and others due to many bad experiences. They have their "controlled" lot philosphy which keeps people from looking through the RVs until they have been screened first. This turns many people off. I worked with a fairly good salesman down there, Ty, who kept in touch and did apply some pressure. However, when it came to negotiations, things went well.

There is a truck stop less than a mile away from McGeorges. They let me initially put on my Equal-i-zer hitch to get it off of there lot. I then spent a couple of hours at the truck stop adjusting in perfectly. I don't think dealers ever want to spend the time to get things adjusted well.

Good Luck!
-Sam


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

wolfwood said:


> One other thing I have thought to add since my earlier post is that we never had a trailer before we bought the 28RSDS. We were enamored with it's roominess. However, that has been a bit of a negative from time to time we we have found that we are TOO LONG to fit into many campgrounds. This could be a left coast thing, but I wish I had known it before had. I would have gotten a shorter trailer.


Nope - not a west coast thing. That's exactly why we stuck with the 25RSS
[/quote]

Just need to find new campgrounds..


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## rnameless (Jun 30, 2005)

First, welcome to the site. This is a very good reference source for anything outback. My.02 is that any TV on a 1/2 ton chassis is going to struggle with any outback over 26'. The posts are numerous to back this up. You would be better served by overkilling the TV with power and tow capacity. That will allow options in the trailer chosen. good luck with your purchase


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## RizFam (Feb 25, 2006)

* & Congratulations!*

Tami


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