# Towing Question



## photosal (Nov 16, 2004)

From Gorman, CA on I-5 to Bakersfield we have seen in the Mountain Directory (CA10) that there are grades of 6% descending over 10 miles. DW is concerned about brakes heating with no flat sections in route to allow for cooling. We're towing an Outbackk 5er, fully loaded at about 9,000lbs.

I contend that using low gears and touching trailer brake will allow us to descend without any problem. Using tow vehicle info below, can anyone with experience on the CA Grapevine route assure DW that we'll be ok? Or the flip side, if you think we may have a problem please advise.

Thanks in advance...
Photosal


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## Dan V (May 21, 2006)

Never towed over the grapevine but have been across it many times , don't think your real issue will be descending and brakes , more likely overheating going up it especially in this HOT weather ! Used to count vehicles pulled over from overheating , good day maybe 6 or so , real hot - 50 or more ! Try to plan it so you are climbing that grade in the am before it starts getting warm .

Good Luck , Dan


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## NobleEagle (Jul 8, 2006)

As an OTR driver I nonly lend you the following info even though I am not particularly familiar with the area you are talking about. I have of weight on and have encountered many grades of 6% or more.
1) always go down the hill in 1 gear lower than you used to climb it.
2) NEVER ride your brake, slow to 10mph below your speed limit (not the posted limit...YOUR limit) then coast back up to your speed, and repeat.
3) gently applying your trailer brakes will prevent any sway or the trailer controlling your TV
4) take your time getting to your destination. It will be there when you arrive, don't hurry and enjoy!!

I hope this helps. It got me through Cabbage and back home safely and Cabbage is at least a 9% grade for approximately 15 miles.









Good & luck enjoy! keep us posted and take plenty of pix!


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Assuming your tow vehicle is a 2500 you will be fine. Just downshift into 2nd and let the engine keep you in check. Apply the brakes sparingly and briefly. On the climb, 2nd gear and let the engine rev up to 3500-3800, or whatever it takes to keep you rolling at about 45-50MPH.

I agree that going UP will be more of a challenge than going DOWN in the heat. The southbound climb is much harder than the northbound as it gets up to altitude in a much shorter span. Consequently, going downhill / northbound is a faster and larger decline as well.

It's really no big deal for a person with common sense enough not to burn up the brakes. Since you are posting here and concerned about it I know you'll be fine.

Good Luck


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

I'm not familiar with that stretch but have towed on other 6% grades. I learned to go down the hill in the same gear I went up. Those 4.10 gears should keep you in control assuming you keep it in 2nd or 3rd gear. I just got my Yukon with 4.10's and kept it comfortably in 3rd going down even though went to 2nd gear on parts of the way up. Pump the breaks when needed and do not ride them.


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## Beerman (Nov 14, 2005)

Let me know how it goes. I live in Bakersfield and just went over the hill without the trailer yesterday. I was thinking about towing up and down the whole time. Keep safe speeds and watch out for idiots. There are alot of speed demons going down the grapevine.

Beerman


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## OVTT (Mar 31, 2006)

Wow I thought the Grapevine was a steeper grade than 6% from all the times I have been over it. On our last trip I encountered a 8% grade that was 2.6 miles long. The Yukon was working hard and did not get over 30MPH. I guess my Yukon did better than I thought being that it sounds like 8% grades are rare...???


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

OVTT said:


> Wow I thought the Grapevine was a steeper grade than 6% from all the times I have been over it. On our last trip I encountered a 8% grade that was 2.6 miles long. The Yukon was working hard and did not get over 30MPH. I guess my Yukon did better than I thought being that it sounds like 8% grades are rare...???


Indeed 8%'ers do seem rare. I've been on 6% and some 7% grades around here. In my last Yukon I was able to at least keep it above 40MPH in 2nd gear on most any hill.

How do those 4.10's help with hills over the 3.73's? I don't get the mechanics of it.


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## OVTT (Mar 31, 2006)

Its like trying to ride a 10 speed bike up a hill in 5th gear instead of 3rd or 2nd but the TV does not have the luxury of producing more power, it only has what it has. So 4.10 gears allow the drive line and rear end to rotate more times per second than 3.73 gears. basically has an easier time up hills but will run at higher RPM's at the same given speed. I hope I explained this correctly. Even with the 4.10 it was a bit slow up the 8% grades. It was a champ up all the 6-7% grades running at 40-45MPH consisntently. The truck never heated up more than 10 degrees over normal temp although I wish I had a tranny temp guage to see what its doing.


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## And4togo (Feb 18, 2004)

Photosal, like CA Jim said going up was more of the challenge for me than going down was, just plan on takin it easy. at the top there is a rest stop that we stopprd at with the others in our group, it was a good spot to stop and take a break before going down the other side. Just take it easy and do like your planning on and you will be fine. Have a great trip.

Rob


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

OVTT said:


> Its like trying to ride a 10 speed bike up a hill in 5th gear instead of 3rd or 2nd but the TV does not have the luxury of producing more power, it only has what it has. So 4.10 gears allow the drive line and rear end to rotate more times per second than 3.73 gears.


OVTT, thanks for explaining this so well. I get it now.

I didn't notice any real difference climbing with the 4.10's but think I forgot to re-engage tow/haul mode after we stopped just before the hills. I just kept thinking 3/4 ton - 6.0L vroom vroom but felt I should be doing better than before. I'm taking the same route in a few weeks so I'll make sure to test it correctly. By the way, the temp guage stayed at around 200 the whole time. It didn't move much and it was over 100 degrees outside.


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

OVTT that is not exactly correct. The 4.10 means the ring turns once per every 4.1 turns of the pinion gear. Since you have equal torque which is feet times lbs a 4.1 travels less but provides more pounds of force. It is the pounds of force you need to overcome the effect of the hill pulling you back down it.


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## DANJOGAVINMO (Apr 17, 2004)

We went over about 3 yrs ago with the outback. Had A/C on max and was pulling ok going up (think we did get down to 30mph at one point), no overheating. There were some overheated vehicles, most of them looked a little worse for the wear anyhow.

Just take it easy going down, downshifting helps a ton, don't let the oodles of people ripping by you at 70mph give you the urge to speed up.

Danny


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

NobleEagle said:


> As an OTR driver I nonly lend you the following info even though I am not particularly familiar with the area you are talking about. I have of weight on and have encountered many grades of 6% or more.
> 1) always go down the hill in 1 gear lower than you used to climb it.
> 2) NEVER ride your brake, slow to 10mph below your speed limit (not the posted limit...YOUR limit) then coast back up to your speed, and repeat.
> 3) gently applying your trailer brakes will prevent any sway or the trailer controlling your TV
> ...


Great Advice NobleEagle









Don


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Sounds like it has all bennd said...

Go slow... stay off the brakes... use your head
The Grapevine has a real reputation, probably deserved, but it's the idiots that feed that reputation.
Also, all of this advice assumes you have good brakes on your TV and TT to start with!

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## shake1969 (Sep 21, 2004)

You can go down a mountain 100 times too slow. But just once too fast.

My copy of the Mountain Directory West says truck speed limit is 35mph, among other things like portions of 5-6% grade, but a steady 6-7% grade about 5 miles long. The northbound descent, that is.

Apparently there is a runaway truck ramp, so to me that counts for something. Plus a couple of brake check stations.

The Mountain Directory cares nothing about ascents, only descents. So they assume you have the cooling capability to make the pull. The summit of Tejon is only 4144', so you will not get much help from cooler air at the top, like some passes in CO & NM.

My Gator pulled Raton like a champ, and you got more truck than me. I wouldn't worry about the ascent, and I'd go a lot slower than posted on the downhill.

Hope it works out for you.


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## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

The grapevine is no big deal- between downshifting and the wind resistance of your rig you should be fine. I've pulled up an down it without any brake issues, nor any I was worried about at the time. The roadway is full of big rigs, and everyone is just plodding along, doing the same thing. Good luck!


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

I agree with kjp1969 you should have no problem with downshifting and occasional use of the brakes. I took my trailer on that stretch of road going north a few weeks ago and I was able to descend at about 45 - 50 mph by downshifting into 2nd gear. I have found that going downhill with the Outback is easier than it was with my popup. The popup weighed 3,500 lbs and had much less wind resistance. With the popup I had to ride the brakes alot more. With the Outback I can usually just downshift to 2nd gear to manage the speed. The only time I have to get on the brakes alot is when the grade is greater than 6%.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Might not make a big difference, but you could always do this pass without any water in tank. Would save you a lot of weight. Just a thought.


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## Deeta (Dec 31, 2005)

Photosal, it shouldn't be a problem for your rig. I live near it and pull it often. I just went over it last month and do about 50 or so down hill in 3rd. It is relatively straight and the trucks are kept in their own lane to the right.

My buddy went SB with my trailer with an F150 and did just fine but it is a more gradual downhill.


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