# New To Me Tow Vehicle Upgrade



## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Well after much lurking I have upgraded my Tow vehicle to a 2005 F-350 Crew Cab Diesel long bed with the 6.0L V-8. It is the Lariat version, leather everywhere, electric this, electronic that. It feels more like a limosine than a truck! My 2004 F-250 V-10 was a great truck, no doubt, but with family getting bigger I needed it.

Plus I just could not stand the humiliation of the 4WD (Spit, cough, gag) Tundra having to pull my 31RQS out of the Wolfwood estate moat one more time.

It is a beautiful truck, well taken care of and has less than 53,000 miles on it. Can't wait to tow for the first time with it!


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## Duanesz (Jul 10, 2009)

Looks like a nice ride. That ones going to be fun in parking lots.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Duanesz said:


> Looks like a nice ride. That ones going to be fun in parking lots.


No kidding! I am already experiencing the "Challenges"!!


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Congrats Eric!!!!

Now we want pictures!!!!

(of the tracks across Wolfies lawn too!!!







)

Edit: Ok, now I see the truck pictures. The other's are still missing....









BTW, the key to a long bed is park a long way out and BACK IT IN to spots. Nose in and you may never get out!!!


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## swanny (Oct 31, 2007)

That's sweet!!!!!! Congrats

kevin


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

Sweet! I just mised a 2007 Chevy Crew Cab with Duramax and Allison - less than 30,000 miles - $29,000! I have the same year with the 6.0L gas engine and HD 4-speed auto with tow-haul. My truck does well, but that would have been a sweet trade!

You'll love the new truck and the way it effortlessly pulls and handles your trailer.

Happy camping









Mike


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

Its beautiful Eric. Good luck with it. You ned a big front bumper and a back up camera. You always back in and you can get close with no problem, because of the camera. Your nose will stick out, but if anybody bumps ya. Too bad for them because they will get all the damage and you won't even know it happened.

Of course that's what I talk Kristen cause she drives our truck on a daily basis

Jim


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Nathan said:


> Congrats Eric!!!!
> 
> Now we want pictures!!!!
> 
> ...


MWWWHA HA HA! Do you like donuts? I think I'll do a couple of those AND write my name! She's gonna get me.. you know that right? You did see my sig photo.....?


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

swanny said:


> That's sweet!!!!!! Congrats
> 
> kevin


 Thanks Kevin. I am REALLY looking forward to that ride to Acadia now!


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Scoutr2 said:


> Sweet! I just mised a 2007 Chevy Crew Cab with Duramax and Allison - less than 30,000 miles - $29,000! I have the same year with the 6.0L gas engine and HD 4-speed auto with tow-haul. My truck does well, but that would have been a sweet trade!
> 
> You'll love the new truck and the way it effortlessly pulls and handles your trailer.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mike! Man your map is stacked! Holy cow!


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Joonbee said:


> Its beautiful Eric. Good luck with it. You ned a big front bumper and a back up camera. You always back in and you can get close with no problem, because of the camera. Your nose will stick out, but if anybody bumps ya. Too bad for them because they will get all the damage and you won't even know it happened.
> 
> Of course that's what I talk Kristen cause she drives our truck on a daily basis
> 
> Jim


Thanks Jim. I was thinking about a camera. Maybe that's the way to go. I know I have an afternoon of hitch adjusting to do. Maybe a camera mod too!


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

congrats on your 6.0L. i think you are going to love the truck.
how versed are you in the particulars of the 6.0L engine ? there are some things you should be watching and some small modifications that should be done (none warranty voiding) to ensure you get all the trouble free miles you want out of her....

let me now if you want to discuss it, congrats again,
paul


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

CONGRATS!


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

SaaaWEET!!

Congrats!!


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

willingtonpaul said:


> congrats on your 6.0L. i think you are going to love the truck.
> how versed are you in the particulars of the 6.0L engine ? there are some things you should be watching and some small modifications that should be done (none warranty voiding) to ensure you get all the trouble free miles you want out of her....
> 
> let me now if you want to discuss it, congrats again,
> paul


 This is my first oil burner. I am as new as they come to the power stroke. But! As I found over the years... outbackers is a like an electronic version of the Encyclopedia Britannica! If you have a question. .. go to the oracle at WWW.outbackers.com!

Any way the questions will come ! Had already a few things to bounce off Nathan, but I am receptive to all input!

Eric


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Very nice looking truck - awesome







CONGRATS!!!!

-CC


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## Pooh&Tigger (Oct 20, 2008)

Awesome, we just did the same, got a 2006 Black 350 Crew Cab Long Bed, otherwise just simliar to your model.

Upgraded from a Dodge Ram 1500 Big Horn, there is no differnece in towing, it's like night and day with the 350.


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

here is a short list of some things that you should do some more research on and consider doing to your truck. a fantastic website for ford diesel owners is www.dieselstop.com. there is a dedicated area there for 6.0L owners. check it out extensively, and you can search topics. i am happy to share my findings as well, and you can always PM me if you want. international designed and built the engine, and their version is called the VT 365. you will find info on the VT 365, and it is interchangeable with 6.0L info. so here you go:

1. the 6.0L has an inherent weakness in the cooling system in regards to coolant filtration. during the casting process for the cast iron block, casting sand deposits remain and continue to rattle out of the cast iron over time. in a normal diesel engine, this is no big deal, happens all the time. but in the 6.0L, the casting sand clogs up the tiny passages in the oil cooler. the variability of the blocks is truly amazing. some blocks throw little or no sand, and others an amazing amount. you will sometimes hear someone talking about getting "a good one" or a "bad one" when it comes to the 6.0L. more often than not, that statement pertains to the amount of casting sand the block is throwing. this is important because the 6.0L uses a very advanced liquid - on - liquid stacked plate heat exchanger to cool the oil. engine coolant passes in one direction on one side of the stacked plates, and engine oil through the other side. when the passages on the coolant side begin to clog, oil temps spike. when this happens, the engine begins to get too hot. the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) cooler is next in line for coolant after the oil cooler. the EGR cooler cools exhaust gasses prior to their re-introduction into the combustion process to help control emissions. when too little coolant makes it to the EGR cooler, it overheats, ruptures internally, and flash boils coolant that contacts the super hot exhaust gasses. this coolant then bubbles out the degas (overflow) bottle. in essense, the truck overheats not from the coolant, but from the oil being too hot. left to go too long, head gaskets then blow, and then worst case oil gets in the coolant or coolant gets into a cylinder, and the engine hydrolocks. FUBAR engine is the result. so, first step, for $150, add a coolant filter. international mandated that in service VT 365's be retrofitted with a coolant filter via a recall, and on all new engines they built they put on from the factory. ford never went that route, but they should have. if you re-program your engine for more power, using some type of aftermarket programmer, it can accelerate and exacerbate the above vicious cycle. i suggest you do not do that. it makes the engine run harder and hotter. the 6.0L has a ton of power already, don't do it.

2. the advanced design fuel injectors are very, very picky with fuel pressure and quality. much has been written about engines with multiple injector failures. more often than not, it is from poor maintenance (more on that in a minute) or low fuel pressure. install a fuel pressure gauge in the cab, with the reading taken off the fuel pressure test port on the fuel bowl on top of the motor. under WOT (wide open throttle) conditions, fuel pressure should never dip below 45PSI. ford has quietly created a fuel pressure spring upgrade for the 6.0L. it increases idle fuel pressures from 50psi to 65psi, and WOT minimum pressures from 45psi to 60psi. the kit is $60 if you can put it in yourself. highly recommended. an injector is a good $300 plus labor. the spring is cheap insurance, and the gauge let's you know where you are in pressure under load, which is critical to you knowing if something is wrong and can save you big bucks down the road.

3. from late 2004 build on, the advanced OMD (on board diagnostics) computer, that controls the FICM (fuel injector control module), monitors critical engine parameters. things like engine oil temp, coolant temp, transmission temp, etc. there are devices (like the edge insight, which i have) that run about $200 or so, that plug into this port under your dash and display these parameters in real time for you to see. i highly suggest you install one and monitor oil temp, coolant temp, transmission temp, and EGT (exhaust gas temps). the EGT probe is an extra $60 or so, and requires the probe to be tapped into the exhaust manifold on the drivers side. now you will see if your oil is getting too hot as in #1 above if you have a paritally restricted oil cooler. also, you can see if you are pushing too hard on hills and running up temps in the coolant or tranny. the EGT probe will show you exhaust heat and if you run the risk of head gasket and turbo damage. running over 1250 to 1300 degrees for extended periods are dangerous and should be avoided. ford has issued a TSB on the engine oil vs. coolant temps. oil should never be more than 15 degrees hotter than coolant, when the engine is fully warmed up (coolant at or over 190 degrees). if it is, the oil cooler should be replaced (under warranty if you still have one) and the EGR cooler should be pressure tested for integrity.

4. the 6.0L's injectors use engine oil, under very high pressures, to activate them. there is a part of the oil system that is fed by the HPOP (high pressure oil pump) that is dedicated to this. this requires clean oil to function well and efficiently. even though the maintenance schedule calls for going 7500 miles between oil changes, i highly encourage you to go no more than 5k miles, which is what ford calls for under the "heavy service" regimen. the 6.0L also "shears" oil very badly, meaning the oil loses it's lubricating properties more rapidly because it is under these very high pressures. extended service intervals are not recommended. follow this for fuel filters as well, changing both the HFCM (horizontal fuel conditioning module) primary fuel filter, and secondary fuel filter on the engine in the fuel bowl, every 10k miles vs. the regular interval of 15k miles. also, i recommend draining the water separator on the HFCM every 2K miles, just to keep it flushed out of any residue from dirty fuel you may get. just takes a couple of minutes, and is great preventative maintenance. if water sits there it can foul the "water in fuel" sensor and give you faulty "water in fuel" warning messages. and only, only, only use ford or racor oil and fuel filters. these parts are too critical, and are patented by ford. there are aftermarket alternatives, and they are cheaper, but you are asking for trouble, and if they fail, ford will (rightfully) void your warranty (if you still have one) on it if they find it contributed to a larger issue. also, i would not go by the ford 100k service interval for the coolant system. have the coolant system flushed every 50K miles. also, don't let the tranny go more than 30k miles before you change the fluid. use the heavy or extreme service interval in all aspects of the engine and powertrain.

5. the 6.0L uses a very advanced VGT (variable vane technology) turbocharger. this turbo alters the angle of the turbo vanes, making it more efficient at lower RPMs and spool up quicker for power when you need it. but, if you are not taking care of the engine well, with regular service on the oil and fuel systems, and / or you let the engine idle OR sit un-run for extended periods of time, the mechanisms that allow the vanes to move can get clogged and stick. if the truck is going to sit for extended periods of time, make sure you take it out weekly at the least for 30 minutes of exercise, getting her up to operating temp for at least 15 mins. this keeps the moisture from building up and rusting the vanes on the turbo. idling is not good for the 6.0L. try to avoid letting your engine idle for extended periods. the soot from the exhaust can foul the exhaust side of the turbo. even when it's cold out (not sure where you live), start the engine, let it warm up a minute or two, and take off. don't push the engine hard when it is cold, however. only push the engine hard after it is warmed up to operating temps. just take off slowly and let temps build. the only time i let mine idle longer than normal is if i am going to tow right off the bat. she needs to be a little warmer if i am pulling a load immediately. and i go real easy until she is up to temp. then, i have no qualms working the engine hard. that is what it is built for. but i am always mindful of going over the line.

these are the biggies, really. there are some other things to be careful about, but if you are going to have the dealer do the service, you will be fine. things like using the proper type of coolant, transmission fluid, etc. etc. this being your first diesel, it will take some getting used to. but this engine is a GREAT engine when properly cared for and when the idiocyncracies of the engine are taken care of / taken account of. if you are using the dealer to do all the work, print this message of and show it to your tech there. if you still have a warranty, the coolant filter, edge insight monitoring device, fuel pressure spring (which is a ford part anyhow) will not void any warranties. the main issues with the engine are now known quantities, but some techs are still not up to speed. so anything that the dealership tells you should be verified in the ownership community, via the dieselstop.com website. it is fabulous, and there are several ford techs that regularly post there (i am not one, just a backyard mechanic who likes to know how things work and does his own service).

if you are going to do your own service (i do) i can talk to you more about that.

paul


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

willingtonpaul said:


> here is a short list of some things that you should do some more research on and consider doing to your truck. a fantastic website for ford diesel owners is www.dieselstop.com. there is a dedicated area there for 6.0L owners. check it out extensively, and you can search topics. i am happy to share my findings as well, and you can always PM me if you want. international designed and built the engine, and their version is called the VT 365. you will find info on the VT 365, and it is interchangeable with 6.0L info. so here you go:
> 
> 1. the 6.0L has an inherent weakness in the cooling system in regards to coolant filtration. during the casting process for the cast iron block, casting sand deposits remain and continue to rattle out of the cast iron over time. in a normal diesel engine, this is no big deal, happens all the time. but in the 6.0L, the casting sand clogs up the tiny passages in the oil cooler. the variability of the blocks is truly amazing. some blocks throw little or no sand, and others an amazing amount. you will sometimes hear someone talking about getting "a good one" or a "bad one" when it comes to the 6.0L. more often than not, that statement pertains to the amount of casting sand the block is throwing. this is important because the 6.0L uses a very advanced liquid - on - liquid stacked plate heat exchanger to cool the oil. engine coolant passes in one direction on one side of the stacked plates, and engine oil through the other side. when the passages on the coolant side begin to clog, oil temps spike. when this happens, the engine begins to get too hot. the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) cooler is next in line for coolant after the oil cooler. the EGR cooler cools exhaust gasses prior to their re-introduction into the combustion process to help control emissions. when too little coolant makes it to the EGR cooler, it overheats, ruptures internally, and flash boils coolant that contacts the super hot exhaust gasses. this coolant then bubbles out the degas (overflow) bottle. in essense, the truck overheats not from the coolant, but from the oil being too hot. left to go too long, head gaskets then blow, and then worst case oil gets in the coolant or coolant gets into a cylinder, and the engine hydrolocks. FUBAR engine is the result. so, first step, for $150, add a coolant filter. international mandated that in service VT 365's be retrofitted with a coolant filter via a recall, and on all new engines they built they put on from the factory. ford never went that route, but they should have. if you re-program your engine for more power, using some type of aftermarket programmer, it can accelerate and exacerbate the above vicious cycle. i suggest you do not do that. it makes the engine run harder and hotter. the 6.0L has a ton of power already, don't do it.
> 
> ...










Wow...

A lot of this sounds very $$$$. I suppose I should do at least some of that maintenance. I could have it serviced but at the intervals your talking about, that's going to get expensive quick. Drop me a PM, I'd be interested in knowing a bit more.

Eric


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Wow!!! We have a 6.0L expert here!


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Nathan said:


> Wow!!! We have a 6.0L expert here!


I think I am scared....!

Really...


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

Well well well... I got two words for you Chief. NIIII- IIICE! I am very jealous. You have to take me and (insert whomever) for a beer run or two while in Acadia, so I can live vicariously through you. Ya know, I believe this is a puuuurfect platform for pulling a fiver....


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> Well well well... I got two words for you Chief. NIIII- IIICE! I am very jealous. You have to take me and (insert whomever) for a beer run or two while in Acadia, so I can live vicariously through you. Ya know, I believe this is a puuuurfect platform for pulling a fiver....


 Fiver? Whats that?


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

As far as changing the coolant, you might not have to do it quite that often. Ford sevice manuals instruct the technicians how to check the coolant to ensure it is still good (esentially litmus strips to test PH). This is important. The alternative is to change it more frequently.

Draining water from the separator is easy. I had a glass baby food jar to drain it into. Then I could see when I had good fuel on top and therefore the water and junk was out.

Also, if you read the owner's manual, you'll see that if you tow you're severe duty cycle anyway. I towed 1/3 of the time, so I would split the difference on change intervals for stuff.

Don't worry, it seems overwhelming, but that will be gone by the smile when you hook up the OB!!!









BTW, most owners never do this and have good sucess. These instructions should help to bullet proof things.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Nathan said:


> As far as changing the coolant, you might not have to do it quite that often. Ford sevice manuals instruct the technicians how to check the coolant to ensure it is still good (esentially litmus strips to test PH). This is important. The alternative is to change it more frequently.
> 
> Draining water from the separator is easy. I had a glass baby food jar to drain it into. Then I could see when I had good fuel on top and therefore the water and junk was out.
> 
> ...


I like that. And I like being able to talk with people like you and Paul, and others on a variety of topics. It's all good info!! Sharin' the wealth!

Eric


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

egregg57 said:


> Sweet! I just mised a 2007 Chevy Crew Cab with Duramax and Allison - less than 30,000 miles - $29,000! I have the same year with the 6.0L gas engine and HD 4-speed auto with tow-haul. My truck does well, but that would have been a sweet trade!
> 
> You'll love the new truck and the way it effortlessly pulls and handles your trailer.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mike! Man your map is stacked! Holy cow!
[/quote]

Most of those colored states we camped in our Coleman Bayside popup. We had several summers in a row where we logged 5000 miles in three weeks. And my sister lives in Boise, but used to live further north, near Kamiah, ID, so we found about every different route there was to take between there and central Illinois - Yellowstone, Grand Tetons, Glacier, Arches, Canyonlands - you get the picture.

I've been to all the western states that aren't colored in, but just haven't camped in them. Heck, my daughter had camped in 37 states by age 13! Lot's of good times in that popup! But hated setting up and folding down in the rain.









And it is nice having my own potty in the Outback, instead of sharing one with a couple hundred strangers. There's plusses and minuses with every style of camping. We started out camping in tents for the first 15 years, so a popup was a palace!

Again - congrats on the new TV. You're gonna love towing from here on out!









MIke


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

the cost is really not that bad. to pay a reputable independent shop or dealer to do the three major mods (coolant filter, fuel pressure spring and gauge, and edge insight monitoring device with EGT probe) is probably $700-$800 of labor, with the components costing about the same, maybe a little less. call it $1500 total, and now you know where you stand at all times. to my eye, that is cheap insurance to get 300,000 plus miles. overall, a diesel is more expensive than a gasser, it just is what is it. you get the pulling power, fuel mileage and longevity in return. but the real issue is that diesels are expensive to fix, and when things go wrong, in any diesel, they tend to go very wrong. so truly with these engines (any diesel, not just a 6.0L) and ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. and think of it this way: if she breaks down while you are traveling, or right before big trip and you are delayed, how much is that gonna drive you to the madhouse ? especially if it was easily preventable upfront.

i have driven many diesels over the years. the 6.0L is by far my favorite engine (but i have not driven the new 6.7L yet. i am scared i might want to sell my 6.0L......







.). the powerband of the truck, the response of the turbo, the way is works, it's elegant solutions to cooling and fuel injection; it really is an engineering marvel. some really smart, forward looking people designed this engine. treat it well, bulletproof it, and smile all the way down the road. but when this engine gets sick, it can be an owners worst nightmare. difficult to diagnose, and expensive to cure (but this can be said about most modern, emissions equipped diesels, but admittedly a bit more with the 6.0L). even engineering marvels have their drawbacks.

it took me a good year to get familiar with the 6.0L, but much advancement in the ownership community has taken place since then. use this knowledge base, and you can get up to speed in weeks.

to nathan's point, the coolant can be checked with the nitrite strips. however, two observations. first, many dealerships are not up to speed with that process. go down to your dealership and see if they have them in stock in the parts department. i am willing to bet they don't. and also ask them if they check nitrite levels before they perform a coolant flush. i bet they don't do that, either. if the levels are too low, the block is required to be flushed with an iron cleaner called VC-9. this helps remove scale and casting sand from the block, and restores the cast iron to a like new condition. that way, the new coolant (the capacity of the system is a whopping 27.5 quarts, it takes 15 quarts of oil, bar far the most of any small block diesel) can coat the block and cooling components with the protective film it creates and prevent further corrosion down the road. and second, the flush removes casting sand that is free floating in the system and has not lodged itself somewhere, like in radiator passages or the oil filter. when you remove the lower radiator hose on one of the "bad" blocks, it is unreal the junk that comes out. and when you flush the block with the VC-9, the water runs black out of the engine.

also to nathan's point, there are a ton of these engines on the road, and many of the owners have no trouble. they are either lucky, don't work their engines hard at all (don't tow), or don't keep them long enough to have these problems manifest themselves. if you are gonna get rid of her in a 2 or 3 years, then much of this could be moot. but if like most diesel owners you are in the truck for the long haul, the preventative expense is worth every penny.

another thing i forgot to mention in the other post was to run a fuel additive in every tank of fuel, i recommend this for any diesel engine. it boosts cetane and adds lubricity, which is important for every diesel. but with the injectors on the 6.0L, it is extra important. also, higher cetane fuel burns cleaner (to a point), and that helps keep the EGR valve clean. i use lucas, but ford's or power service is good stuff. stanadyne is the best, but far and away the most expensive and hard to find. also in the winter use a winter blend additive to prevent any gelling of the fuel (i see you are in new hampshire). most winter blend fuel you will buy in your neck of the woods will already have the anti gell additive, but it is again cheap insurance for extreme cold weather, and makes cold weather starts a bit easier if you don't plug her in.


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

Great information Paul! Thank you for taking the time to share all that! (Any chance you got a brother with a 6.4 PSD?) Ha ha JK









Randy


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

here is a link to a great primer on the oil cooler for the 6.0L. cooling system health is critical to the modern EGR equipped diesel engine, the 6.4L included of course. they share a very similar cooling system to the 6.0L. that is one difference between the 7.3L and the 6.0L that people that bash the 6.0L don't get. the 7.3L is old and dirty. EPA requirements and the coming introduction of ULSD had that engine completely outdated. bashers of the 6.0L ask "why did ford go to the 6.0L ? what a shame, when the 7.3L was such a great engine...." the two word answer is "emissions requirements". the 7.3L could not be retrofitted to handle the coming requirements for NOX and CO2.

http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articles/article-09-01.php


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## Tangooutback (Apr 16, 2010)

Paul, 
You are correct about 7.3 being dirty, not meeting EPA requirement, and also does not produce as much hp and torque as the newer 6.0.

However, for drivers who desire a dependable, easy to maintain and fairly trouble free vehicle, the 7.3 is a proven with those attributes.

My only question is: aftermarket kits and modifications are available to make 6.0 functional and relatively trouble free, why does a huge corporation like Ford with its facility and engineering department fail to fix problems before their product rolls off the assembly line?

There is no reason for a consumer to spend 50K on a vehicle having to add, after purchase, another 5K plus time and hassle to fix poor engineering design and implementation.


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

yes tangooutback, the 7.3L is proven for that. it was and is a great engine. but the newest of them are 8 years old. the truck they were put into is nothing compared to the 6.0L cab, and even the 6.0L and 6.4L cab is nothing compared to the 6.7L. and anyone who cares at all about the environment will want to drive something cleaner. their time has come and gone. for those who own them, they can drive them into the ground. but to buy one now ? not in my opinion.

from your post in the other 6.0L thread, the 7.3L trucks do get bid up in price. paying top dollar for a used truck that is 8 to 10 yrs old makes no sense to me. yeah, it's dependable, but the truck is dated inside and out, period. buying a 4 or 5 year old truck at a discount and putting 2-3k into it makes more sense to me. there are so many used 6.0L's out there that have never been programmed, and have not been abused. the owners are trading them and selling them because they are afraid of the problems that they have been hearing all these other folks complaining about coming to visit them down the road. well, the fact of the matter is that many of the owners that are having trouble:

1. programmed their trucks for more power, helping to blow head gaskets
2. did not take care of their trucks with proper maintenance and OEM fluids and filters
3. had improperly trained techs early on work on the problems that their actions helped to contribute to and exacerbate (they did not CAUSE the problem, but they made it worse) and these techs threw parts at the problem because they were not really sure what to do to fix the problem.

so existing owners that are not up to speed with the knowledge base in the ownership community hear these horror stories and get scared at a 5k or 10k plus bill down the road, and they sell them. when all they needed to do was spend 2k to 3k to go through their trucks and bulletproof or nearly bulletproof them. gauges, coolant filter, fuel pressure spring, etc. the fact of the matter is that the 2006 year of the 6.0L has had the FEWEST warranty claims of ANY superduty built, inclusive of the ford gassers AND any year of the 7.3L. 2007 is not far behind. these are the trucks to buy. you can get them BELOW book value, fix the issues, and have as good a chance of a worry free 400k mile truck as any 7.3L owner. more head gaskets have been replaced on 6.0L's for absolutely no reason other than abuse. the ARP head studs are NOT needed unless you are gonna program the truck for more HP. this is a proven fact. the head gaskets blow due to pushing the truck beyond it's design limits with programming causing overboost situations, or, occasionally, someone just beating the living hell out of the truck on a day to day basis. if you beat any engine all day every day, it will fail. i have seen guys on other boards pulling 20k trailers with dually F350's. they are way out of spec, they program the truck, and blow the head gaskets. it is ford or international's fault ? the 7.3L could have the heck programmed out of it, and the simple design with no emissions controls could take it. not the 6.0L or ANY manufacturers modern, emission controlled diesel.

now, i agree that FoMoCo dropped the ball before and after the engine's debut. they should have done what international did with the VT365 - recalled all in service trucks and had a coolant filter added, and spec'd out coolant filters for all new trucks. they also did not adequately train the service techs before the introduction of the engine. they figured international had another near perfect product, and got lazy and complacent in the roll out of training. also, they did not adequately caution third party ambulance manufacturers not to use fluids and filters that were not OEM, and that caused HUGE grief, and tragically, lives were lost because of it. they did not mess around this time with the 6.7L. they did it about as right as they could, at least so far. the 7.3L was not without it's issues as well. a really poor air intake, poor fuel filtration, the transmission was not nearly as good as the second generation torqueshift, etc. so i am not going to dispute the fact that when joe consumer forks over 50k+ for a turbodiesel truck, they should not have to do these modifications. ok, so they screwed up. so that is reason NOT to buy the engine ? when you know it can be bulletproofed and you can pick it up for below book value ? you are supposed to buy an 8 or 10 year old truck instead ? i think that is taking a step backwards. every engine from every manufacturer has it's issues. just surf a dodge board or a duramax board and you can see them all. the key in my mind is that the issues are out there and are know quantities. you are not just praying you "get a good one" like the naysayers of the 6.0L will have you believe. they are just uninformed, spreading fear, and making the myth of the 6.0L larger than it really is NOW. back 4 years ago, it was a HORROR show for 6.0L owners. nobody, including FoMoCo and international, really new what the hell was going wrong. now, they do. and most importantly, the ownership community has come to market with add ons to solve the issue.

and it does amaze me that even with all the test mules in the 6.0L trials, they could not know about all these issues. it goes to show that even with rigorous testing, there is no way a manufacturer can cost effectively re-create all the possible outcomes that the owners will put the truck into. and remember, it is international's engine, not ford, so ford was trusting them. and with good reason, after the great 7.3L and earlier generation powerstrokes. that is why ford sued them and moved away from the relationship. my dream is that in 6 or 7 years time, when my 6.0L has 375K to 400k on her, i will trade her in for a 4 year old 6.7L. and i will be able to read up on any issues this engine is having over the next few years.

i could go on all day about this.

that's all the time i have for now !

happy trails

paul


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Yes - Eric ... she WILL. btw, all - it IS a pretty truck but, as Eric and I discovered, it does still have that funky little blue oval thing. Too bad ... would be a real gem otherwise


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

wolfwood said:


> Yes - Eric ... she WILL. btw, all - it IS a pretty truck but, as Eric and I discovered, it does still have that funky little blue oval thing. Too bad ... would be a real gem otherwise


Hey Eric, after spelling your name in the lawn, perhaps a script "Ford" would be in order too!!!


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

You need to switch to evans coolant asap.

Its a waterless coolant and uses no corrosion inhibitors. The only reason you need corossion resistance in antifreeze is because its 1/2 water. http://www.evanscooling.com/

Evans will protect the engine to 375 degrees. Standard antifreeze will handle about 230 and thats it.

The greatest thing is you 6.0 ford will have no water pressure with evans. So a zero psi rad cap can be used.

The cooling system and gaskets arent up to the task on most new engines. The antifreeze is being used at its maximum. If you switch to evans there will be a ton of room to spare.

Here is what I can tell ya.

The guys who use evans have seen 500k or more out of a 6.0. The guys who run standard antifreeze see 250k or less out of a 6.0.

All egr, dpf and varible vane turbo diesels need to switch to evans. Many of there problems will go away.

Go read the entire website. I couldnt possibly get into all the benefits that evans will do for ya.

Remember. They put corrosion inhibitors in antifreeze to protect the aluminum and steel in the engine from the damgages that water does to steel or sluminum. If water wasnt in the system then there is no need for corrosion inhibitors.

Being that the engine will have no water pressure from heat will save the 6.0 engine and its components.

Carey


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

yep, i've heard of this stuff. it could be a better mousetrap. but switching to it prior to a warranty expiring is dangerous business. ford will void your warranty for running it.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

It wont be long till we see this coolant being used from the factory. Antifreeze is no longer capable withg all of these new emeission diesel engines.

Warranty or not. Id be running the stuff.

Id worry about warranty repairs later. Other than the sand problem this fixes all the 6.0 problems. No pressure, no blown gaskets, simple as that. Many of the 6.0 problems come from super heated antifreeze. Wont have any with evans.

Carey


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## Tangooutback (Apr 16, 2010)

I saw a lot of heated arguments, both pro and con, about Evan coolant on FTE and Powerstroke.org. I have to say I am confused with both sides of the Evans...









One thing I know for sure, International recommends Fleetrite. I am having green coolant as of this minute. The near future plan is to flush out all green, install Dieselsite coolant filter and install Fleetrite. I'd be happy with 300K miles....


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Ive never heard a con about evans. Ive used the stuff for years in my dirtbikes plus my truck. Truckers are switching the emission engines over to evans in droves. They are upping there engine temps and thrmostats to 215 and having the fan come on at 230. They are seeing a 5% fuel savings and a much happier emission system. Since diesels are more efficiant the hotter they run. The emission system makes less soot when the engine temp is risen a bit.

For our little engines getting rid of the pressure inside of the cooling system is a great thing since our head gaskets are a bit weak in all mini diesel engines. I cant think of why someone wouldnt like the stuff.. Yes it does cost some money. Drag racers have used this stuff for years, so has many other racing orgs.

Carey


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Tangooutback said:


> Ive never heard a con about evans. Ive used the stuff for years in my dirtbikes plus my truck. Truckers are switching the emission engines over to evans in droves. They are upping there engine temps and thrmostats to 215 and having the fan come on at 230. They are seeing a 5% fuel savings and a much happier emission system. Since diesels are more efficiant the hotter they run. The emission system makes less soot when the engine temp is risen a bit.
> 
> For our little engines getting rid of the pressure inside of the cooling system is a great thing since our head gaskets are a bit weak in all mini diesel engines. I cant think of why someone wouldnt like the stuff.. Yes it does cost some money. Drag racers have used this stuff for years, so has many other racing orgs.
> 
> Carey


Hmmm, I think I need to ask some people around here their opinions. Of course understand that they will be just that.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Ask away Nathan. Why are you guys using a coolant that is at 100% of its capabilities? Many of our problems in new emission diesels are coolant related. Why not look for alternatives?

I will answer that... Because its even hard for engineeers and companies to change there ways. They are scared the public will not like it.

The general public also has learned we cool an engine with water based products. If the coolant is low put some water in it.

Evans is totally waterless. Something new. The old stuff works as long as things are perfect. The old stuff boils on the surface of what its trying to cool very easy. The new stuff stays liquid longer with whats its in contact with and has more ability to actually transfer the heat to itself.

An engine can be ran up to 20 degrees hotter which makes it more efficiant. The evans protects so well that the engine is actually cooler inside at 20 degrees warmer then using the old antifreeze at 20 degrees cooler.

Truckers are gaining 5% mpg by turning up the heat and using evans. Our computers arent as easy to readjust to the new temp so us lil guys have trouble increasing our engine temp that much. People are working on ways to increase the operating temp and make the computer happy too. Hopefully by the end of the year the smaller trucks can be retrofitted too.

Why not have it in automotive too? 5% is 5%....

Carey


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

Not to hijack the thread further, but can Evans be run in standard gas engines? The reason I ask is I'm doing a fluid flush of my old 95 F-150, and was thinking this may be better than good old Prestone......


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> Not to hijack the thread further, but can Evans be run in standard gas engines? The reason I ask is I'm doing a fluid flush of my old 95 F-150, and was thinking this may be better than good old Prestone......


Its right around 30 bucks a gallon. Works great in old engines because it removes the water pressure problem of blown hoses, head gaskets, and makes your water pump last about the life of the engine.

Many older engines fail because of water pressure problems. Evans fixes that.

I have learned its the greatest stuff on earth for making an engine last longer.

In my 2 stroke dirt bikes I have always had to change the piston each season. They become out of round and score the cylinders after a couple hundred hours.

My piston in my kawi 220 is 5 years old. I just re-ring it each season. The evans cools much more evenly which allows no deformation of the piston. So it seems to be lasting forever.

Incredible stuff. Im pretty certain it will do the same for any engine.

Carey


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Ask away Nathan. Why are you guys using a coolant that is at 100% of its capabilities? Many of our problems in new emission diesels are coolant related. Why not look for alternatives?
> 
> I will answer that... Because its even hard for engineeers and companies to change there ways. They are scared the public will not like it.
> 
> ...


So what are our options to "turn up the temp"?


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