# Looking At This Truck To Trade



## campntn (Feb 20, 2005)

FACTS:
-Our kids are growing physically and we have said for a year or so that in 08 or around there, we will be needing to get a larger camper. (not sure what kind)
-The tahoe has 66k on it, in EXCELLENT condition, is an 03, about to get 5K plus miles on it. 
-We are getting ready in two weeks, to leave on a major cross country, 5 thousand mile round trip, through some mountanous areas. 
-Tahoe pulls great: some side movement if 18 wheeler passes us. Tahoe rated for 7700 lbs to tow.
BIGGEE: GAS; Tahoe get's 21 on highway, 17 in city and 9-11 towing at 60, depending on terrain. With gas prices doing what they obviously are, one can see how much of a difference that can make in a cross country trip alone. Not to mention daily driving.
-Tahoe is my daily drive. Wife drives a minivan.

NOW...to consider:
I have found a local owned CLEAN/SHARP loaded 04 Chevy crewcab Durmax (slowly exhale guys). Great looking ride, leather, 4WD, loaded, DVD in back, 57K miles on it. Owned by a dealer's brother. See below.

I've never towed with a diesel before, but I know what I hear. 
I'm not a big trader, but I also like to make wise/informed decsions that benefit my family and my pocketbook.
Wife is "hesitant" to say the least to get a vehicle we don't know much about and take out cross country with it. 
OK, without any more info, 
I'm open for thoughts/insights.
Mark


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Well, since it won't be your family "car", I'd say get it. If I didn't need the Suburban to haul the family around, I'd go for a Duramax (although a 3500) in a heartbeat.

Might anyway one day by trading off my little S10.

Mark


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

Only caution is that some 2004.5-2005 LLY Engines have had overheating problems. It is not a consistently found issue. An aftermarket fix is available but it is about ~ $900 for parts.

Ask the Dealer to print out a VIN check and warranty/service history report. It will show how many warranty claims have been made or any open warranty campaign issues and what service has been provided by a GM Dealer....

Map Guy


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Gee, what do you guys think...................
















Nice looking truck, if you're looking to upgrade the trailer soon and the truck checks out go for it.

On the flip side, your tahoe will do just fine on your planned trip, so there's no need to rush into a new truck if you don't want to. The difference saved in fuel costs won't be huge and I can understand your wife's reluctance to head out in a truck you know very little about.

Can you tell I don't like to rush into anything???

Mike


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

What are the rear gears? From the picture I see thet the Durmax is a 3/4 ton and your tahoe is a 1/2 ton. The Durmax may not get as good of mileage on the highway but it should get beter mileage towing than you get with the tahoe. Just remember diesel is low rpm power gas is higher rpm power if you can keep your foot out of the throttle you should be ok. My company truck gets the same mileage full or empty or towing 11mpg thats just the way its geared. James


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Pretty truck! That would tow the 21 like nothin.. If you can swing it, what have you got to lose!

Just rememeber...... If you get that, a bigger trailer is in order..... Few can resist it! Might figure those costs also..

Carey


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## campntn (Feb 20, 2005)

Thanks guys, I guess at this point, I am REALLY interested in the mpg OVERALL of the diesel vs the gasser. Dunno bout other places, but right now diesel is $2.69 here and gas is $3.19. That doesn't sound like much but at 5000 miles, that really could add up. of course, those numbers can change place to place and day to day.


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

GarethsDad said:


> Thanks guys, I guess at this point, I am REALLY interested in the mpg OVERALL of the diesel vs the gasser. Dunno bout other places, but right now diesel is $2.69 here and gas is $3.19. That doesn't sound like much but at 5000 miles, that really could add up. of course, those numbers can change place to place and day to day.


My 2006 is getting 13-14 around town in stop and go -no freeway. About 17-19 in mixed freeway local. Freeway only if my foot stays light 22-23. No towing except small utility or 5x10 enclosed cargo with little impact on the mpg. Truck is still under 10K so mileage is still improving a little.

Map Guy


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

In the west gas and diesel is closer matched, but diesel is still a bit cheaper. Fuel mileage should be better towing.. Prolly about the same otherwise.

Here is Co. gas is 3.30-3.40 on the front range, Diesel is 3.15-3.25.. In the mountains it will be at least a quarter a gal. higher.

Good Luck!

Carey


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## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

towing at 60 i would expect you to get 12-14 mpg. I have a ctd and tow a 31rqs. At 70 i get 12.5. If i slow down it goes up fast. ( also if i spped up it gows down fast) Go for it. You wont look back!!


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

Diesels get the best mileage under 1800rpm the higher the revs the faster you will go through fuel. James


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## klnks06 (Aug 11, 2006)

We switched from a Tahoe to a 2500 Dodge Megacab CTD, and it made the towing experience much easier. The mileage on the Tahoe was 7-8mpg when towing the 25RSS to around 14mpg towing with the diesel. There are a lot of other benefits from switching vehicles, and they are longer wheel base, heavier tow vehicle that barely moves in the wind, and the ability to set the cruise control and not have to worry about speeding up on the down hill side just to make it up the up hill side without slowing way down. The Tahoe pulled the trailer ok, but the diesel does it like nothing is attached to it. Right now gas is $3.43 per gal, and diesel is $2.79, but who knows how much longer diesel will be cheaper.

Kent


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## Camping Fan (Dec 18, 2005)

campntn said:


> I have found a local owned CLEAN/SHARP loaded 04 Chevy crewcab Durmax (slowly exhale guys). Great looking ride, leather, 4WD, loaded, DVD in back, 57K miles on it. Owned by a dealer's brother. See below.
> 
> Mark


My Dad has a 2004 GMC Sierra crewcab (not exactly the same truck, but verrrry close) Duramax with the Allison tranny and loves it. He tows their 31 ft. 5'er with it, and I can tell you from personal experience helping him drive home from Florida that it pulls the 5'er very well, definitely have to set the cruise to hold down the speed. The Chevy would tow your current trailer like nothing's there, and you would be set for a bigger trailer down the road too. As long as this particular truck hasn't had any issues with engine overheating, and if the price is reasonable, I'd say go for it. Whether you want to do that before or after your upcoming trip, I leave to your discretion (of course also taking into consideration how likely it is that someone will beat you to the punch if you wait).


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## Rubrhammer (Nov 27, 2006)

How much towing do you do per year vs non towing miles? I know you have a major trip coming up but that osunds like an extraordinary event. Run the numbers and see how long it will take to recoup the expense of trading. Another thing to consider is that diesel compared to gas will change again in the fall. 
You didn't say how much they are asking for the truck. I'm curious if you don't mind sharing.
Bob


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

I would go for it. I towed with a Chevy Tahoe when we bought our first camper and it did the job. When I switched to a diesel I was like a little kid at Christmas time. You will get better towing MPG with the diesel and have a much easier/enjoyable time through the mountains. At 70 mph pulling a 29 FBHS I get about 12 mpg. With your current camper you should easily be in the 12-14 mpg range. That Duramax looks like a winner and will easily pull your next Outback.

Diesl is about 50 cents per gallon cheaper than gas (at least in my area). So a 5,000 mile trip at 10 mpg with a gasser would cost approx:

500 gallons x $3.25 - $1,625

Diesel - a 5,000 mile trip at 14 mpg (5,000/14=357)

357 gallons x 2.75 = $981

That's quite a bit of difference in fuel cost for the trip. (if I did the math right







). Plus you won't have to hunt for fuel stops as often.


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Just remember, once you go oil burner....you'll never go back.

Tim


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

hatcityhosehauler said:


> Just remember, once you go oil burner....you'll never go back.
> 
> Tim


You got that right!


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

*> 22,000# TCWR 

> 22 MPG Highway

> 15-16 MPG towing

> Gas = $3.35/gal : Diesel = $2.99/gal

What's not to like?*

I wish I had found one like that when I was looking, and I'd be driving a diesel instead of the 6.0 gasser. Don't get me wrong, the gasser pulls well - but I just couldn't justify the extra $8000 (new) for 4-5K miles per year, and there were not any decent, low mileage crew cabs to be found. But that Duramax/Allison combination is S-W-E-E-T !

Mike


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

I wish I could find one in my area. New truck fever is brewing I thought about a diesel excursion but my co workers are threatning me and hope if I buy a F&*D it dies. However I feel the need to rescue a 2007 fully loaded 2500HD D/A CC loaded that some moron already traded in at a F**D dealer with 2500 miles what was he thinking









John


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## Crawfish (Sep 14, 2005)

Mark, I own an '05 Dmax just like the one you are looking at. I have 47K miles on it and it has never even tried to over heat like some say they do. I know at least six other people who own an 04 or 05 DMax and they have never had any problems with theirs overheating. Mine is getting around 19-20 mpg on the highway, 14-16 mpg in town and 12-13 mpg towing a 5'er. If it was me I would get it, if you are really serious. It will pull your trailer like it was not even back there. I can tell you now, once you tow with it, you will tell yourself why didn't I get one of these sooner. I think it would make you trip a whole lot more comfortable.

Leon


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

He was thinking that it was way to much truck for him! Or he doen't know thing one about diesels. James


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## Camping Fan (Dec 18, 2005)

johnp2000 said:


> I wish I could find one in my area. New truck fever is brewing I thought about a diesel excursion but my co workers are threatning me and hope if I buy a F&*D it dies. However I feel the need to rescue a 2007 fully loaded 2500HD D/A CC loaded that some moron already traded in at a F**D dealer with 2500 miles what was he thinking
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmm, trade the AV for a F**D?!?!















Now a nice Chevy/GMC Duramax, that would be OK.


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

I was a DMAX owner towing a 21RS. Talk about the worlds greatest mis-matches.

Lot of truck for that trailer so you will get the bigger trailer. Unless you tow real heavy and over the mountains with your foot in it hard the DMAX won't overheat. Besides the fix is about $1K so if the truck is right and so is the money then go for it as that $1K will be swallowed up by the longevity of the truck.

The older DMAX gets better mileage then the '06s and up. Sometimes I wish I had the older ones because my diesel play was all about comfort and towing mileage. When your towing in the summer w/diesel you save a nice piece of change. In fact over a couple of trips you buy a couple of nights camping.


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

He could trade in his AV for the new f-350 SD but only if it's an oil burner. It's a diesel thing. James


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## campntn (Feb 20, 2005)

GarethsDad said:


> He was thinking that it was way to much truck for him! Or he doen't know thing one about diesels. James


That's not the typcial, helpful reply that we have come to expect in our Outbackers.com family.

Anyway, I will know more when I actually sit in it and maybe even tow the camper. He has 30K on it with the built in wiggle-room that we discussed on the phone today. 
It's a good looking ride, in the pictures.
A buddy tonite was talking about, LONG-TERM, how much more financial appreciation you get from a diesel, as far as it holding it's value as opposed to a gasser. I dunno. Sounds like a long-term investment that a camper might consider when thinking about moving to a diesel.
Mark


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

map guy said:


> Only caution is that some 2004.5-2005 LLY Engines have had overheating problems. It is not a consistently found issue. An aftermarket fix is available but it is about ~ $900 for parts.
> 
> Ask the Dealer to print out a VIN check and warranty/service history report. It will show how many warranty claims have been made or any open warranty campaign issues and what service has been provided by a GM Dealer....
> 
> Map Guy


There's a much simpler fix that the dealer will do under warranty.

http://www.duramax-diesel.com/downloads/06aircleanerLLY.pdf

No charge from me, either.

Sluggo


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## renegade21rs (Oct 8, 2006)

johnp2000 said:


> ... I feel the need to rescue a 2007 fully loaded 2500HD D/A CC loaded that some moron *already traded in at a F**D dealer with 2500 miles* what was he thinking
> 
> 
> 
> ...


2500 miles. Watch out. I bought a 2005 F-150 Supercrew with 'only' 7000 miles on it. Since then, I've had to have rear axle seals at '39000' miles and a new electronic throttle body at '41000' miles. Mechanic suggested this vehicle was driven between 30-40000 miles before I ever saw it. Seems it was a turned-back lease. The previous owner pulled the fuse for the speedo / odometer. Lots of people do that, I'm told.










You bet your a-- my next one will be brand-new. Out of the box. I won't be burned again.










Just my .02

-->renegade


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## campntn (Feb 20, 2005)

On a setup like this, do you use swaybar and the weight distribution bars??


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## Rollrs45 (May 7, 2007)

It's ironic you posted this. I had a 05 Yukon when I purchased my 23KRS. I towed the TT w/ the Yukon 3 times and decided I had to do something. The Yukon towed the TT, but the upper end power was lacking. I swapped out to a 3:73 gear to help with low end torque, but the higher end was still pathetic. So, I went looking for an HD w/ the Duramax.

The result is a 2004 with 53K on the odometer. My truck is 4 door, 4x4, w' leather interior (Sounds like yours, huh?). I could not be happier w/ my decision to purchase this truck. Diesel is about .20 cents cheaper here than regular gasoline and you can't beat the power. My mileage when I tow is around 11-13, depending on how I keep my foot in it. The rear end of the HD is so much stiffer than a Yukon, which results in hardly any sway, even w/out sway control. It's so nice to hit an incline or a hill in the road and not hear the tranny downshift. If I'm running 60 mph, I stay at 60 mph....... Sweet! Also, the Allison tranny when in tow haul mode actually downshifts to retard the speed when coming to a stop. It's almost like your riding in a stick shift and using the tranny to help slow the vehicle.

My recomendation is go for the diesel. I was able to haggle 3K off the price of the truck and they bumped my trade by 1K over anyone else. I don't think you'll regret going with the duramax.



Rollrs45 said:


> It's ironic you posted this. I had a 05 Yukon when I purchased my 23KRS. I towed the TT w/ the Yukon 3 times and decided I had to do something. The Yukon towed the TT, but the upper end power was lacking. I swapped out to a 3:73 gear to help with low end torque, but the higher end was still pathetic. So, I went looking for an HD w/ the Duramax.
> 
> The result is a 2004 with 53K on the odometer. My truck is 4 door, 4x4, w' leather interior (Sounds like yours, huh?). I could not be happier w/ my decision to purchase this truck. Diesel is about .20 cents cheaper here than regular gasoline and you can't beat the power. My mileage when I tow is around 11-13, depending on how I keep my foot in it. The rear end of the HD is so much stiffer than a Yukon, which results in hardly any sway, even w/out sway control. It's so nice to hit an incline or a hill in the road and not hear the tranny downshift. If I'm running 60 mph, I stay at 60 mph....... Sweet! Also, the Allison tranny when in tow haul mode actually downshifts to retard the speed when coming to a stop. It's almost like your riding in a stick shift and using the tranny to help slow the vehicle.
> 
> My recomendation is go for the diesel. I was able to haggle 3K off the price of the truck and they bumped my trade by 1K over anyone else. I don't think you'll regret going with the duramax.


p.s. I use WD only, no sway control. Like I said, the suspension and rear end of the truck (not to mention the weight difference versus the Yukon) help control the sway. If you get the truck, hook up the TT and take it on the road for a test drive. I think you'll like what you find.









Mike


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## campntn (Feb 20, 2005)

I've really been thinking about this; I think the poser is that it's right before we leave on this looong trip. Just a feeling of uncertainty. But, it's coming from a very reputabale dealership. And the owner was the brother of a nearby dealership owner. I have requested the service records.
I will be getting the factory GM warranty, should I get it. I have it for the Tahoe and have used it several times. everything has been covered for the $100.00 deductible each time. Maybe the best $1,200 I spent. Has more than doubled the payback. 
We need a truck...bottom line. If we are going to continue to camp, we need something to pull a bigger camper. That being said, our kids are getting to busy schedules in their lives and we won't be able to just pull out and go like we used to. But, when we go, I want to be comfortable and confident when towing.
(I'm sounding this out, so bear with me)
Not happy about a higher monthly pmt, but heck, can't take it with you.







Then again, I wil be swapping a vehicle for one with a higher resale, less miles, more usability in our daily lives (throw the bikes in instead of putting in the camper when we camp local or go for a ride) and it's a year later model, 04. 
So, I hope to get in it today, see how it feels. See what hits me. 
As a good friend told me last nite, he wants a diesel as well, he said "If it's a get it later situation, anyway, why not go ahead and get it now, before you leave and enjoy the benefits of a diesel on this trip."
Bottom line is I try to make wise choices for the benefit of my family, and not just me. And I hate to trade, so this would finish it off for a few years. Come a long way from a Durango and a popup to this...
Mark


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Camping Fan said:


> I wish I could find one in my area. New truck fever is brewing I thought about a diesel excursion but my co workers are threatning me and hope if I buy a F&*D it dies. However I feel the need to rescue a 2007 fully loaded 2500HD D/A CC loaded that some moron already traded in at a F**D dealer with 2500 miles what was he thinking
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmm, trade the AV for a F**D?!?!















Now a nice Chevy/GMC Duramax, that would be OK.








[/quote]

Hey, I traded an Avalanche for a Ford....

......and aside from a new turbo, two new EGR's, and 32 days at the dealer last year....it's been great.

Tim


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## Humpty (Apr 20, 2005)

I think you would be very happy towing with the diesel - especially on your LONG trip.

If you plan on getting a larger camper Sooner than Later, I would say go for the TV swap before the long trip.

I will add that you should be sure to consider what the camper upgrade will be. If your plans include a monster 5er with really heavy pin weight, then that might not be the right truck.

When we started down the path of bigger camper / more TV, I really didn't want a DRW truck. When we started looking at large 5th wheels, I knew I would need a dually.


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

Sluggo54 said:


> Only caution is that some 2004.5-2005 LLY Engines have had overheating problems. It is not a consistently found issue. An aftermarket fix is available but it is about ~ $900 for parts.
> 
> Ask the Dealer to print out a VIN check and warranty/service history report. It will show how many warranty claims have been made or any open warranty campaign issues and what service has been provided by a GM Dealer....
> 
> Map Guy


There's a much simpler fix that the dealer will do under warranty.

http://www.duramax-diesel.com/downloads/06aircleanerLLY.pdf

No charge from me, either.

Sluggo
[/quote]

Sluggo's link is GM's current fix for this problem. If you search Duramax related websites like Dieselplace.com there is wide ranging opinions on whether or not an overheating problem exists because it is so inconsisent between trucks and geographical/environmental factors the trucks are operated. For those that own these trucks with OH problems the new air box and ECM flash has helped but many still claim to have OH problem plus other new problems related to the reflash of the ECM.

My purpose was not to scare you off  as the truck looks very good in the picture posted. IMHO the VIN check /warranty service report will help you pin point if warranty claims have been made on the VIN and whether or not an overheating problem has been documented in the past on this particular vehicle. Other wise I would go for it -if a larger trailer is in your future...... The fuel price thing will flip the other direction in the fall for most areas of the US due to home heating fuel demand.

You won't be disappointed on how the rig tows your trailer!

Map Guy


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

Do it......

I did and have never looked back. Mountains don't exist anymore.....headwinds....we laugh at headwinds.

It sounds like a good truck if the numbers work....do it!!!

Gary

And John.....I happen to have a rescued 06 with 10000 miles on the lot!!!!


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## beachbum (Nov 27, 2006)

DW and I went through a similar decision making process. And it is a process!! We opted for the bigger NEW truck first, and then the camper. We knew the camper we wanted and I knew I wanted to pull it comfortably; no white knuckles for me. We got the truck in December and then went to MI in Jan to pick up the trailer. Have used the trailer more this year than we did the pop up all of last year. If the numbers work and the truck checks out, I would get it before your upcoming trip. If you do it quick, you'll have a week to drive around town and find any quirks with the truck. I think it will make your trip much more enjoyable. My 2 cents.
david


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## old_tidefan (Nov 23, 2005)

I had a tahoe and towed a 21rs and it did fine. I now have a 32bhds and tow it with a 2500 Dodge CTD and it towes the 32 better than the tahoe did the 21....There are dozens of ways to try to make this make sense. Bottom line is, if it is what you want and you can afford it, get it..You will like it.


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## redmonaz (Jul 24, 2006)

I went from towing our 26RS with a '99 Tahoe to an '06 Duramax Crew Cab. If you can do it GO FOR IT! You will be very happy when you pull. I look forward to camping now. If I would not have bought this truck I would have sold the trailer.

The truck is great, it can be a little challening in parking lots, but you will get used to it.

Tough decision, good luck with it!
Don


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