# Decisions, Decisions...



## glennbo (Jun 27, 2006)

Hi folks! I am a "newbie" or is there another word for non-outback owner who is seriously considering making the leap? I've done quite a bit of research and believe that the Outback is the best TT choice for me the and family. Now I just need to decide the best one. For my TV (4Runner V8 w/ tow package) I am thinking the smaller 21RS is the best choice but don't want to buy it then find that it doesn't suit my needs. I have a wife and 2 boys 8 & 4. Any suggestions are appreciated!


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

First off Welcome glennbo to the site
What about the 23RS thats a nice model
What are the specs on your TV?

Don


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## glennbo (Jun 27, 2006)

HootBob said:


> First off Welcome glennbo to the site
> What about the 23RS thats a nice model
> What are the specs on your TV?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the welcome, I have been browsing the site for the past few days and am amazed by the wealth of information.

By Specs I assume you mean tow ratings and so forth... The curb weight on the TV is 4255 lbs and the GVW is 5460 lbs. For a weight distributing hitch which I plan to purchase, the towing capacity is 7300 lbs. The combined gross trailer weight and TV including cargo must not exceed 12,000 lbs.


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## prevish gang (Mar 19, 2006)

glennbo said:


> Hi folks! I am a "newbie" or is there another word for non-outback owner who is seriously considering making the leap? I've done quite a bit of research and believe that the Outback is the best TT choice for me the and family. Now I just need to decide the best one. For my TV (4Runner V8 w/ tow package) I am thinking the smaller 21RS is the best choice but don't want to buy it then find that it doesn't suit my needs. I have a wife and 2 boys 8 & 4. Any suggestions are appreciated!
> [snapback]125997[/snapback]​


I don't know the tow specs on the 4Runner, so I guess you should start there. Ask a Toyota dealer where you need to be weight wise and then look inside the kitchen cabinets for the correct weights that are posted about each individual trailer. We have a Durango and a 25RSS. We are right on the edge with our TV. Took a trip into the mountains and while it pulls fine on the highways, the mountains provide a challenge. We live in a flat climate and most of the time we will be fine intil we upgrade our TV. With proper brake controller and sway system we tow comfortably, but wouldn't go higher than the elevations we reached this weekend in Luray VA in order to not kill our vehicle. I felt that I really had to have the side slide due to the fact that I have big teenage boys, so I got the 25RSS for space. Since your children are smaller, as long as you have a set of bunks for them you should be happy. The queen slide helps open up even a small trailer and there are lots of ways to maximize space to accomodate your needs. Good luck with your decision. You will love the Outback and the people who own them.
Darlene


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## glennbo (Jun 27, 2006)

prevish gang said:


> glennbo said:
> 
> 
> > Hi folks!Â I am a "newbie" or is there another word for non-outback owner who is seriously considering making the leap?Â I've done quite a bit of research and believe that the Outback is the best TT choice for me the and family.Â Now I just need to decide the best one.Â For my TV (4Runner V8 w/ tow package) I am thinking the smaller 21RS is the best choice but don't want to buy it then find that it doesn't suit my needs.Â I have a wife and 2 boys 8 & 4.Â Any suggestions are appreciated!
> ...


Thanks for the feedback. I would think that your Durango is a bit more powerful than my 4runner and since the 25RSS has a GVWR of 6000 lbs I might be better off sticking with the 21RS and shave off about 400 lbs. I would really like to get up into the mountains so weight should probably be a serious consideration if I'm going to usee the 4runner as the TV.


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## prevish gang (Mar 19, 2006)

glennbo said:


> prevish gang said:
> 
> 
> > glennbo said:
> ...


I think you are being smart by staying on the cautious side of things. Your kids are still small and this will be a great start for you. If you need organization help in order to have room for everything you want to bring along, I will help you "think outside the box". That is something I am pretty good at. Welcome to the site and I guess now it's time to go shopping for a deal!


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

action Hi Glennbo action

Good for you for doing your homework...I am sure that once you take the plunge, you will love your Outback no matter which one you choose.

Good luck on your search and keep us posted,
Dawn sunny


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

action *Welcome to Outbackers, glennbo!* action 
You have settled on one fine brand of travel trailer! I'm sure you will love it!









Now, as far as which trailer...

Of the four you listed, I think the 26RS is the best choice for a family with kids. That quad bunkroom is absolutely priceless. From the ability to bring along friends, to extra storage space, to privacy... It really can't be beat. Unfortunately, IMHO it is to much for your current tow vehicle. We have people around here pulling 25RS-S's (same GVWR and almost as long) with the same vehicle, and they same to do OK, but that combo is outside my comfort zone. If you think you may be upgrading in the tow vehicle department soon, I would give it a look.

Otherwise, I would suggest the 23RS. You still have some extra space (bunk/storage wise), but in a package much more suited to your Toyota's capabilities.

In any case, be sure you go with a quality sway control and weight distribution hitch setup (Equal-i-zer, Reese DualCam or Hensley) and I will highly recommend a Prodigy brake controller.

Good luck in your hunt, and let us know if we can help you!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

Hmmm, tough decision. I'm very partial to the bunkroom of the 26 but I also like the slide (I have both in the 28). Don't know which I'd compromise on - probably give up the bunks in favor of the slide and let any friends of my boys sleep in a tent. But, having their own room is nice - they can play in there when it rains; they can go to bed "down the hall" while you and DW stay up until 8:30, maybe even 9:00.







And, the four bunks allows for easy "take a friend camping" for each of your boys.

But, you have to weigh everything (pun intended) and decide what's right for you. There is a lot of discussion in the forum about towing - capacities, safety, etc. and it may pay to look at all of it (or as much as you can absorb) before deciding. No matter whhich you choose, you'll love the Outback.

Scott


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## trgrenz (Jun 27, 2006)

We too (Family of 4) found the Outback to be the brand for us. After lookinng at the 21, 23 and the 25, (which were all within our size requirments both for towing as well as storing at the house) we chose the 23rs mainly due to the layout and exceptional storage. We are set to take delivery on 6/30 if all goes well with the PDI. Good luck on your decision and purchase.


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## kyoutback (Jul 12, 2004)

I think one big issue for you is going to be the short wheelbase of the 4 runner. I beilieve it's around 110". This is just as important IMO as weight.


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## Swanie (Oct 25, 2004)

Be very cautious about towing with the 4-runner. I pull a 21rs with a Durango 4.7 (not a Hemi) and I could never take it in the mountains. The short wheel base is a big factor for trailer size but the towing engine is just as important. I really thought my Durango could do it all but I was very uneducated.

This is just my opinion but you don't need to buy more trailer than you need. We have 3 teenage kids (my oldest is 6'1") in a 21rs and do just fine. In fact, it surprised me how much room there is. But different strokes for different folks . . .

Good luck with your decision. The one thing I know is that Outback is the way to go. I have never regretted my choice of travel trailer.


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## Reggie44 (Aug 12, 2005)

Welcome Glennbo, with your tow vehicle I would stick to the 21RS. We have the 21RS and our boys are 13 & 15. The trailer works great for us. It tows comfortable so I do not have the added stress of being under powered while towing. We love the bunk area bike storage







. We even bring our 100 lbs LAb with us as well. Their is plenty of room even with our dog. Good luck on your choice. JR


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## daves700 (Jun 12, 2006)

Welcome ..... As a proud new owner of a 21rs i would have to say go for it. My TV is a ram 1500 with the hemi, per Dodge I can tow 8000+, so when we were looking it had nothing to do with towing issues. We love the lay out


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## W4DRR (May 17, 2005)

Based on my experience, I would suggest you stick with the 21, unless you really need that front queen bed (we did), then go with the 23.
The 4Runner wheelbase is 110", and according to the towing rule-of-thumb, you shouldn't tow more than a 20ft trailer. We are pushing that a little with our 23.
Also, the 7300lb (7000 for 4x4) tow capacity assumes a WD hitch. Without it, the capacity is reduced to 5000lb.
Our 4Runner has done well for us here in the relatively flat Southeast. I always try to hold the speed down to no-more-than 60, because of the short wheelbase.

Bob


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

I think Wolfwood tows a 25RSS with a 4Runner. She'll probably chime in soon but I think is pleased with the results. You may be pushing the limits with that wheelbase and GCVW. The 21RS is a fine model and gives you everything an Outback has to offer in a nice size package.


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## RizFam (Feb 25, 2006)

action Welcome to Outbackers.com action & Good luck with your decision.

Tami

Campmg, I was just going to mention Wolfie


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## W4DRR (May 17, 2005)

campmg said:


> I think Wolfwood tows a 25RSS with a 4Runner. She'll probably chime in soon but I think is pleased with the results. You may be pushing the limits with that wheelbase and GCVW. The 21RS is a fine model and gives you everything an Outback has to offer in a nice size package.
> [snapback]126126[/snapback]​


Wolfie has a $Hensley$ Hitch also.


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

W4DRR said:


> campmg said:
> 
> 
> > I think Wolfwood tows a 25RSS with a 4Runner.Â She'll probably chime in soon but I think is pleased with the results.Â You may be pushing the limits with that wheelbase and GCVW.Â The 21RS is a fine model and gives you everything an Outback has to offer in a nice size package.
> ...


That'$ right. I forgot they $pent the money to buy the Hen$ley Hitch to control $way. With that wheelba$e, I'm $ure it was dollar$ well $pent.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

OK - OK - I'm HERE!!!! Geesh - the boss has been hovering all day!

Yes, we have a 4Runner and YES WE HAVE A HENSLEY - and its the best money we've spent (after the Outback, itself, of course.) Here is the report I recently sent to another 4Runner owner who was looking at buying an Outback and wanted a real life report... Hope this helps. Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions. (Oh - btw - these guys without the Hensley....its all about being a bit green. I've never heard a Hensley owner report that "its nice but we learned that it was a luxury we didn't really need.")









"Sometime ago, you were looking for a report on how the 4Runner handled. I couldn't tell you much at the time but we spent this last week weaving our way thru the White & Green Mtns of Maine, NH, & VT. In short, we were very pleased! Avg 11mpg running at speeds from 20 on small back woods mtn roads for 2 hr clips to 65 on the Interstate, generally held 2500rpm (with a few short climbs to 4000), pulled the TT up the hills in 4th/3rd gear without a cough (used the slow vehicle lanes but didn't really need to), held its speed on the downhills in 3rd with very little help, and the temp. gauge never moved from its normal position. Most of the time, I was hardly aware that we were towing. Had a few quick braking events in towns when idiots just had to get in front of the TT coming up the road and was VERY pleased with the handling. (Prodigy was set at 5.9/ b2, boost was dropped down when in town). Never a hint of sway or being blown by anything...but I imagine the Hensley is more to thank for that than the TV.

Ours is the '05 Sport V8 (tow cap. = 7000#). The specs all looked like it was built for towing and the performance does prove that out. Unless we were to take it to the Rockies (unlikely), I don't think we'll be facing any stiffer mtns than what we saw this week


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## glennbo (Jun 27, 2006)

Everyone: Thanks for the warm welcome and the great advice. Based upon all the feedback and weight considerations I think the 21RS is the best TT for me. Now I just have a few more questions and please excuse the ignorance, this is all very new to me.

I've seen recommendations for a hensley, equalizer or resse dual cam hitch; Should I expect the dealer to carry all of these brands? What if they only carry one but I want a different one, how is that normally handled?

Also, someone suggested a prodigy break controler; is that different than the service connector that came with the tow package on the 4runner, (sorry if that's a stupid question)? Are there other break controlers of inferior quality that I should avoid?

Finally, any ideas on overall price for the hitch/break controler setup?

Thanks again, y'all have been a great help!!


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

glennbo,

I think you have made a good choice!









As far as the hitch is concerned, the dealer is unlikely to carry them all, but that should not stop you from getting what you want. If they can't (or will not) order one for you, you can get it yourself from any number of sources. As far as installing the setup is concerned, frankly you are better off doing it yourself anyway. It only takes a little mechanical apptitude and the ability to follow instructions. The dealers have a reputation of not setting these things up correctly, and if it is not, you get no benefit.

IMHO, the three listed earlier are the only ones I would even consider:

*Equal-i-zer:* The simplist design, this is an easy setup to live with, is very effective, and a great value. On a performance scale, I would rate it about 95% of perfect. Cost will be on the neighborhood of $400 dollars (It's been awhile since I priced them, so I may be off by +/- $100).

*Reese Dual-Cam HP:* A more complex design, still easy to live with, but not as easy as the Equal-i-zer. Very similar performance at about 95%. Cost is around $500.

*Hensley Arrow:* This is the Rolls Royce of hitch setups, and the price reflects it. There is, quite simply nothing better. If you have to have the ultimate, this is it, but I personally could not justify the cost for that extra little bit of performance over the others. Rate it 99% of perfect. Cost will be $3,000+

As for brake controllers, In my mind the Prodigy is the only option. It works in an entirely differant manner than any other, and just can't be beat. The setup is identical to other controllers, and requires nothing special. For the extra $20 or so that it may cost, it's just not worth considering anything else. Cost will be $100-125.

Hope this helps.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## glennbo (Jun 27, 2006)

PDX_Doug said:


> glennbo,
> 
> I think you have made a good choice!
> 
> ...


Holy smokes! $3000 for a hitch? I think I'll stick with the Equalizer until I become more experienced with trailering. So if I make the hitch purchase independent of the dealer, would I simply tow the trailer home as is (very carefully of course) and install the hitch at home?


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## kjdj (Sep 14, 2004)

glennbo said:


> PDX_Doug said:
> 
> 
> > glennbo,
> ...


I've owned all 3.

The DualCam has the advantage of not having to crank the tongue to the moon to get the bars engaged into the brackets.

I gave up on the Hensley. You have to have both the perfect high and straight angle to hitch up. Way too much work for me.


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

Doug said it all. I have the Reese and am very pleased with it. I upgraded to the Prodigy based on all I read in this forum and the difference between it and the Tekonsha Voyager (Tekonsha makes Prodigy BTW) is like night and day. The Prodigy is the *ONLY *brake controller to use as far as I'm concerned.

Scott


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## campntn (Feb 20, 2005)

You'll love the 21. I bought ours with the hitch included in the bargaining price. Already had the brake controller. If I knew then what I know now, I'd bargain for the trailer using the weight distribution hitch/brake controller/elec jack (I don't have yet)/and a Maxxair or some other ventcover. The ventcover, whatever brand, should be mandatory on a camper. See what kind of pkg he'll make on it with all of that and take it from there. Be ready to do a lil wraggling but you'll have most of what you need for a great start OUTBACKING!
Mark


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## W4DRR (May 17, 2005)

glennbo, it might be worth mentioning, if you go with the Prodigy (considered the best by most everyone). I don't know if Tekonsha has ever come up with a ready-made cable for the 4Runner (Toyota is still treated like the red-headed stepchild, and can't eat at the dinner table with the "Big Three"). So you may have to splice the Toyota-supplied "flying lead" cable with the "flying lead" cable that is supplied with the Prodigy. That is what I did a couple of years ago because there was no pre-made cable assembly available. Unfortunately, it is not "red to red, green to green, etc.", so you have to follow the instructions closely. Bottom line is: if you hook it up correctly, it works great.

Bob


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

W4DRR said:


> glennbo, it might be worth mentioning, if you go with the Prodigy (considered the best by most everyone). I don't know if Tekonsha has ever come up with a ready-made cable for the 4Runner (Toyota is still treated like the red-headed stepchild, and can't eat at the dinner table with the "Big Three"). So you may have to splice the Toyota-supplied "flying lead" cable with the "flying lead" cable that is supplied with the Prodigy. That is what I did a couple of years ago because there was no pre-made cable assembly available. Unfortunately, it is not "red to red, green to green, etc.", so you have to follow the instructions closely. Bottom line is: if you hook it up correctly, it works great.
> 
> Bob
> [snapback]126423[/snapback]​


No problem connecting the '05 4Runner/Prodigy combination. Piece of cake.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

kjdj said:


> I gave up on the Hensley. You have to have both the perfect high and straight angle to hitch up. Way too much work for me.
> [snapback]126334[/snapback]​


Maybe you had the wrong bars ???? I find it VERY easy to hitch up - even in the dark. Line her up straight to the TT and back her in. 1st 2 times it took KB & I a bit to learn how to coordinate our own directionals (NOTHING to do with the hitch)....once we figured that part out, its been a smooth shot in, 1st time every time. I love it. (I am especiallly fond of the dropped jaws of all the guys watching







)

glennbo, if you go with the 21', you certainly won't need the Hensley to equalize the wheelbase equation (that's the primary reason for our having purchsed it for the 25')....and these guys do seem happy with the other 2 options even tho' you will still read a fair amount about sway, 18-wheelers pushing (some of) them around, etc. Others will say they have no problem. I guess that's a comfort-level thing - I'm the driver and I like the "NO SWAY - NONE - EVER" part of the Hensley. (btw - we financed the hitch with the TT....so the hit is not as painfull as it might otherwise be.)


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## W4DRR (May 17, 2005)

wolfwood said:


> W4DRR said:
> 
> 
> > glennbo, it might be worth mentioning, if you go with the Prodigy (considered the best by most everyone).Â I don't know if Tekonsha has ever come up with a ready-made cable for the 4Runner (Toyota is still treated like the red-headed stepchild, and can't eat at the dinner table with the "Big Three").Â So you may have to splice the Toyota-supplied "flying lead" cable with the "flying lead" cable that is supplied with the Prodigy.Â That is what I did a couple of years ago because there was no pre-made cable assembly available.Â Unfortunately, it is not "red to red, green to green, etc.", so you have to follow the instructions closely.Â Bottom line is:Â if you hook it up correctly, it works great.
> ...


Piece of cake, as in a ready-made cable with connectors at both ends is now available?
Just curious.

Bob


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## RizFam (Feb 25, 2006)

W4DRR said:


> glennbo, it might be worth mentioning, if you go with the Prodigy (considered the best by most everyone). I don't know if Tekonsha has ever come up with a ready-made cable for the 4Runner (Toyota is still treated like the red-headed stepchild, and can't eat at the dinner table with the "Big Three"). So you may have to splice the Toyota-supplied "flying lead" cable with the "flying lead" cable that is supplied with the Prodigy. That is what I did a couple of years ago because there was no pre-made cable assembly available. Unfortunately, it is not "red to red, green to green, etc.", so you have to follow the instructions closely. Bottom line is: if you hook it up correctly, it works great.
> 
> Bob
> [snapback]126423[/snapback]​


Glennbo,

We didn't have any problem with our Tundra & prodigy hook up, but then again the dealer hooked it for us









Tami


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

We have 2 young ones that camp with us, and we settled on the 26RS bunkhouse so the kids can each take a friend camping with them. The bunkroom is ready made for that, and you don't have to make up beds on the sofa or the dining table.

That being said, I think the 26RS or the 25RSS will be too much for your TV. Per Keystone's specs, the 25RSS weighs more than the 26RS (and the tongue weight looks wrong at 385 lbs), and either of them will likely put you at or over your GCWR or the rear AWR of the 4Runner.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

W4DRR said:


> wolfwood said:
> 
> 
> > W4DRR said:
> ...


Yes. The Prodigy comes with a couple cables - I guess covering a wide selection of vehicles. Instructions tell you which one to use for which Make. Toyota is covered - plug & play.

BUT: Ours is an '05....Toyota had upped the towing capacity and made a few other changes.....don't know if that had any bearing on the Prodigy we installed in March '06. Different years / improvements/etc. Your '04 could be different and I don't recall how the instructions read (by make? make & model? model & year? etc.) As the 4Runner & I are not daily partners...and I'm at work .... I'll have to check for you tonght. Although someone else may be able to let you know sooner.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

glennbo said:


> So if I make the hitch purchase independent of the dealer, would I simply tow the trailer home as is (very carefully of course) and install the hitch at home?


Glennbo,

Unless you are literally a couple of blocks from home, I wouldn't do it. I pulled my Outback home from my storage yard one time - about 10 miles - without the bars hooked up (Forgot them at home, and didn't want to go back







shy ), and it was not a fun time!

This is what I would do...

The main part of the installation is in assembling the hitch head. As long as you get the trailer coupler to ground measurement off the trailer first, you can do the hitch assembly at home without the trailer. I would install the 'default' number of spacer washers to start with (This will make more sense, once you get the instructions (click here). Then, take the trailer 'L' brackets, bars and tools to the dealer. The setup on the trailer itself is pretty quick, so it will not take much time to get ready to go once you get there. Now you can bring the trailer home. Understand that the odds are the hitch will not be correctly 'tuned' at this point, but you should be getting enough benefit from it to be safe on the road for that short trip. Once at home, you can get down to dialing it in properly.

The other option would be to go ahead and have the dealer set it up, but knowing that you are still probably going to redo it when you get home. In my case, on my third trip back to the dealer to get the hitch setup correctly, I stood over the mechanic with the factory installation instructions in hand and demanded that he follow them exactly. Eventually, after several attempts on his - and the service managers - part to try to convince me that the people that designed and build the Equal-i-zer don't know what they are talking about, I threw up my arms, took the trailer home, and did it myself. On hindsight, I should have done that in the first place.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Your other option would be to have the dealer deliver it to your site (home? storage? CG?) and then you can install at your liesure ...and without feeling like the eyes of the "presumably-all-knowing" are watching your every newbie-move out in the parking lot. You guessed it - that was OUR choice.


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

I did what PDX_Doug suggests. I had the shop where I purchased the Equalizer set the hitch head and height and then had the RV dealer set the L brackets on the trailer frame during my PDI. You may have some fine tuning afterward but the initial set up should work well enough to get you home safely.


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

Another option: find your best deal on a hitch, and have it drop-shipped to the dealer. By presenting this idea to the dealer, you might get them to price match your deal (if they sell that brand hitch).

My OB dealer did not sell Equalizer hitches but quoted me a price on getting one in. I found a better deal and had it drop-shipped to the dealer before my delivery date.


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## glennbo (Jun 27, 2006)

Thanks everyone for your tips and advice. I got another tip on a dealer in my home state and if the numbers work out, I may be the proud new owner of an Outback 21RS in the next week or so. I'm going to head out to kick a few more tires over the weekend and then hopefully make the deal and bring the puppy home. I'll let y'all know how everything works out.


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## old_tidefan (Nov 23, 2005)

Good luck with it







...We really liked our 21rs.


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## Husker92 (Feb 11, 2006)

I am first time trailer owner and really the first time towing anything. We love the 21RS. It's perfect for the four of us (me ,wife b-5, b-2) It a good trailer to start with.







Only draw back is longer term storage is limited but the side door make up for it.

no matter which one you pick you'll be having fun!!! sunny good luck!


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