# 3/4 Ton Or 1 Ton



## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

I am considering buying another TV. Since one of these days, and I mean two or three years down the road, probably, I know I'll be moving up to a 5th Wheel and I'll need a pickup truck to use with it. Will keep the Suburban, too, BTW to use towing, too. (Will let go of my 98S10 with 159K!)

I know I want a diesel. Only considering USED. Want a crew cab with a fairly decent size backseat. That leaves out the Dodge (Megacabs are too new so therefore out of my price range for what I'm wanting to spend). I've been looking around Autotrader.com and have found a few, only a few, 1 tons that I'd even consider and I'd have to drive 2 to 4 hours to get them. Local econony has plenty of 3/4 ton HDs so could purchase locally should I opt for the 3/4.

Here's my question. Anyone know, for sure, and can convince me, how much more vehicle I'd be getting if I hold out for a 1-ton. My dilemma is this. When I do opt for a Fiver, I don't know that it will be a _lightweight _ (Outback, for instance). And I want to be sure that I have the TV for it.

Convince me that I need to hold out for a Silverado 3500 or F350.

All input will be appreciated. But please, use logic, not just give me your "druthers."

Thanks, guys. And gals.

Mark


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

mswalt said:


> My dilemma is this. When I do opt for a Fiver, I don't know that it will be a _lightweight _ (Outback, for instance). And I want to be sure that I have the TV for it.


I think you have answered your own question, Mark. If you want to make sure you are capable of handling more than a lightweight fiver, you have to go 1 ton. As a practical matter - if it were me (my druthers, sorry) - I would also go dually. I see a lot of singles out there pulling fivers, and some of them scare the h*** out of me! If you are going to pull anything of any size, I really think you want that extra rubber on the road. And dually mean at least a 1 ton.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

To be able to carry the PIN weight of a mid to larger 5er you need the one ton model if you want to stay within the factory tow rating specs. Dually doesn't give you more capacity in the same size truck just more stability and tires to distribute the weight through. The cons on the dually are , no short bed options, parking issues and tire expenses over time. If time is no issue search for the ideal rig to match your desired trailer.

Map Guy


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

Mark,

Firstly, Don't rule out the Dodge. The Megacab in not the only model Dodge with a rear seat area. They have a crew cab as well.

Secondly, I have a 3/4 Dodge Diesel. It has a GVWR of 8800 lbs.

Given;

truck weight full fuel) 6650 
est pin weight of 28FRLS 1560
driver/passenger 350
dogs 200
5th wheel hitch 200
______________________________
8960

As you can see, I'm over GVWR and that's with a lightweight 5th wheel trailer. Not even including weight of propane or other items that could add to the pin weight.

Regards, Glenn


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Stability would be better with a 1 ton obviously. With a duelly, nuff said.

I think the biggest thing it comes down to is what and where and how will it be used when not pulling a camper.


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## hurricaneplumber (Apr 12, 2004)

I would also try and find the 5ver model/floorplan that you will want and size the truck accordingly. You may find one of the large Montana's and need the 1-ton dually with 4.30 gears etc. or even a larger truck..

happy researching


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Most of the Fivers I think I'd be interested in weigh in about 11000 or 12000 GVW with a hitch weight of about 2000. Something like the *Heartland Big Horn * or the *Excel * or the *Titanium*, or *Grand Junction.* Nothing absolutely huge, but roomy and comfortable.

The biggest drawback to getting a 1-ton duelly now is that it will be my daily driver once I get it. I only drive about 3 miles to work, one-way....about 3000 miles per year. Of course, it will be used to pull the 31RQS, too, on our trips much, if not most, of the time. All in all, probably less than 10K per year.

I thought about getting it now so I can obviously start paying for it now, before I upgrade the Outback. I'm probably looking, realistically, at 4 or 5 more years with the 31RQS. That is, unless I just find something I just have to have!







I'm in no big hurry. Since I don't have a big truck now, I need it first. Who knows, I may never have to get into that BIG Fiver. By then, my needs may have changed and I may be able to stay with a lighter weight Fiver like the Outback.

With that kind of mileage, I figure a good, strong diesel will last me for several years and serve as my "retirement" vehicle in a few years. I really think I won't have to buy another one. I'm 56 now. plan on retiring about 60, then work part-time, when I want to.

Is this realistic? Given 10K miles per year? I've never owned a diesel....only know what I've read here from y'all.

Keep the comments coming.

Thanks,

Mark


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

A friend of mine bought the Dodge pick up when they started putting a cummins in it. He now has 325,000 miles on it. You take care of it, it will take care of you.


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

I just replaced my 1st diesel suburban last winter It fell apart around the frame due to salt on the roads in winter. It had over 400,000 miles on it and still runs and drives but would not pass the inspection in New York. It's a 1988 3/4 ton 4x4 with 4:10 gears. If you keep it in good mechanical order it could last you a vary long time in Texas. James


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Our 1 ton dodge mega cab diesel dually is about 3 weeks old now. DH has put over 500 miles on it, so we're good to tow







He told me today that the mileage is already getting better. Around town when new was getting 11-12 mpg and is now getting around 13.7 mpg...good sign







It holds 34 gallons and is getting right around 400 miles between fill ups. We don't have any highway mpg yet to report...

We'll report back after our 1,000 mile round trip to Zion in a few weeks.


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## Tiger02 (Apr 16, 2006)

Mark,

When I first went looking for a diesel truck I was only looking at 3/4 ton SRW CC trucks. I'm partial to the old body style Fords and found a great deal on my current truck that I couldn't pass up. I now know I would be kicking myself in the back side had I bought a SRW 3/4 ton. This is my daily driver (6 miles to work) and it is my favorite vehicle I have ever owned. Took a few days to get used to the duallies, but don't even pay attention to that now. Service life for most diesels is over 400,000 miles and mileage is better than my 01 Isuzu Trooper I had before it. Gets just over 15 around town and 18 on the highway. Cummins, D/A combos and PSDs are all good engines even though each has its quirks, so get the body style and features you like or need. Transmissions are always a variable and you can't go wromg with an Allison or a torque shift. If I ever decide to get a larger 5th wheel I won't have to worry about getting a different TV.

Good luck with your decision and purchase.

Vince


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## aplvlykat (Jan 25, 2004)

Hi Mark, From what I have read there are three different axels that GM uses under ther 2500 and 3500 trucks. If I remember right the 1500hd/2500 has the smaller of the three, 2500HD has a option of the next two bigger axels and it will depend on what ratio you get as to what size axel you get. The 3500 has the largest and of course the highest rating. They all look pretty much the same from the outside but on the inside they are slightly different. I think it has to do with the carrier bearing and shaft size or the number of teeth on the shaft. The best way to get this straight is to stop by the GM parts counter and have them pull up the specs. If it was me, I think in this case bigger is better and for the couple of more bucks, go for the 1 ton. Kirk


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## LordMuut (Jul 30, 2006)

The only thing I would worry about with a diesel is the fact that you wouldn't drive it enough. Sounds funny, I know, but I researched them too and the so called experts claimed that diesels need to be worked. It's not good for them if they aren't used. I dunno if this is true because I have never owned one and it would not be a problem for me as I average 15-18k per year. The cut-off point was deemed to be about 15k per year according to popular opinion. Just my 2 cents.


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## dougdogs (Jul 31, 2004)

PDX_Doug said:


> My dilemma is this. When I do opt for a Fiver, I don't know that it will be a _lightweight _ (Outback, for instance). And I want to be sure that I have the TV for it.


I think you have answered your own question, Mark. If you want to make sure you are capable of handling more than a lightweight fiver, you have to go 1 ton. As a practical matter - if it were me (my druthers, sorry) - I would also go dually. I see a lot of singles out there pulling fivers, and some of them scare the h*** out of me! If you are going to pull anything of any size, I really think you want that extra rubber on the road. And dually mean at least a 1 ton.

Happy Trails,
Doug
[/quote]

Well said Doug!

I don't want to start a flame war, but after something I experienced this past weekend with my brake away cable on my 5th wheel, I highly recommend a Ford with the integral brake controller.

Doug


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## OutbackPM (Sep 14, 2005)

mswalt said:


> I am considering buying another TV. Since one of these days, and I mean two or three years down the road, probably, I know I'll be moving up to a 5th Wheel and I'll need a pickup truck to use with it. Will keep the Suburban, too, BTW to use towing, too. (Will let go of my 98S10 with 159K!)
> 
> I know I want a diesel. Only considering USED. Want a crew cab with a fairly decent size backseat. That leaves out the Dodge (Megacabs are too new so therefore out of my price range for what I'm wanting to spend). I've been looking around Autotrader.com and have found a few, only a few, 1 tons that I'd even consider and I'd have to drive 2 to 4 hours to get them. Local econony has plenty of 3/4 ton HDs so could purchase locally should I opt for the 3/4.
> 
> ...


 mswalt
I have a 3/4 ton crew cab with short bed and when I bought I thought that anything would be an option in the future. What I find is with the diesel option you loose about 500 lb of payload so effectively I have with family in the vehicle about 2200 lb capacity for a 5th wheel pin load. Using 20% required for pin load that leaves you at about 11000 lb 5th wheel weight max (1 of the Outbacks e.g.). For the really big full time 5th wheels you would need another 1000 lb hence the 1 ton.

If in the future you want one of those big 5th wheels then a 1 ton is what you will need to tow it properly. The dually will give you more pin weight to tow up to the GCWR at 23500lb(Chevy). I have seen 3/4 with these and they will be really close to the max rear axle weight (add the tire rates about 6000lb) but over GVWR by quite a bit.

The draw back with 1 tons is they are that much bigger and more difficult to live with everyday.

Good luck with your choice


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## Humpty (Apr 20, 2005)

Mark:

A lot of things can change in the 4 to 5 year time frame. Who knows what you will want or need by then? Save/invest what you would spend on a monthly payment, and then buy what you need when you need it.

Chris


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Mark,

If this vehicle is also going to be your daily driver, and you only commute 3 miles to work each day, a diesel may not be the best choice. They really need a chance to get warmed up to get best performance and longevity, and you just aren't going to get that in three miles.

With that as a consideration, you might take a look at the available V-10's (Dodge & Ford) as a compromise.

Just a thought.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## MikeN (May 25, 2007)

PDX_Doug said:


> Mark,
> 
> If this vehicle is also going to be your daily driver, and you only commute 3 miles to work each day, a diesel may not be the best choice. They really need a chance to get warmed up to get best performance and longevity, and you just aren't going to get that in three miles.
> 
> ...


I pick up my new Outback 31fkw 5th wheel tomorrow, It took me several weeks to decide what type of tow veh. I wanted, I opted for the 2007 Chevy 2500 HD with the 8.1 L gas motor with 4.11 rear. This veh. has a 9200 lb carrying weight and can tow up to a 15500 lb 5th wheel. The outback should weigh in loaded at around 11,300 lbs. I got the extended cab 2 wheel drive. You can lose up to 1000 lbs of towing if you go with the 4x4. Can't wait to get on the road with my new home.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Well, I've got a lot of miles behind me and seen a lot of different stuff out on the roads and in the parks. My 2 cents...

-- If you are going to tow a lot, definitly get a diesel.
-- Look at GVWR and GAWR instead of half-ton vs. 1-ton.
-- I don't think there is a need for a dually.

I can't speak for Chevy (never had one), but both Ford and Dodge are pretty decent diesels. My current Dodge gets better mileage than what my Ford did, but things are changing daily and the new Ford diesels might get just as good a mileage -- my Dodge gets 21-24 when not towing and 14-16 when towing.

Don't look at just a half-ton vs. 1-ton. The new F-350's and F-250's have really high GVWR ratings. Believe the F-350 is about 11,400 compared to 9,900 on my Dodge 3500. I suspect the F-250 has something less, but probably still higher or comparable to Dodge's or Chevy's 1-ton. If you want a 4x4, then don't forget the penalty you'll pay in weight -- in my case, with my 3500, it was 700 pounds. That's a lot of penalty and means that my total available pin weight is only 2,000 pounds which means that the most pin weight for an unloaded 5th-wheel is, at very max, about 1,800. That takes me out of being able to pull about 70% of the available 5th-wheels. Be sure and look at both the GVWR and GAWR, get empty axle weights on the rig you are considering, and do the math. In order to be able to pull "most" 5th-wheels, you would want to look for an available hitch weight of about 2,500.

Duallys are nothing but a pain. They cost more to buy and maintain, don't fit well into the garage, and usually end up with scratched wheel wells because someone didn't remember (or see) how wide you are. As far as stability, I have not had any problems with my singles. I drove through the Guadalupe mountains with 60 mph winds and never felt unsafe and the 5th-wheel hung on just fine. I don't think stability is a good enough arguement to get a dually given all the negatives. The only reason I can think of where one might get a dually is purely weight carrying capability.


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## SoCalOutback (Dec 18, 2005)

The specs for the 2005 F250/F350 SRW are the same and the 2006-2007 models are close to the same. 12,500 with a weight distribution, 17,000 5th wheel or goose neck. You have to go up to a F450 or F550 to get more capacity.



vdub said:


> Well, I've got a lot of miles behind me and seen a lot of different stuff out on the roads and in the parks. My 2 cents...
> 
> -- If you are going to tow a lot, definitly get a diesel.
> -- Look at GVWR and GAWR instead of half-ton vs. 1-ton.
> ...


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## having_fun (Jun 19, 2006)

Wow, 21-24, that is incredible, are there other OB's out there that get that good a mileage? I may need to rethink this.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

> The specs for the 2005 F250/F350 SRW are the same and the 2006-2007 models are close to the same. 12,500 with a weight distribution, 17,000 5th wheel or goose neck. You have to go up to a F450 or F550 to get more capacity.


I think you are getting the various weight ratings confused. Suspect you are referring to the "tow capabilty" or GCWR. Totally different thing. When you are talking about a TT, then the GCWR is your primary concern (not to imply that the others aren't important as well). But, when talking about a 5th-wheel, then GVWR and GAWR have an increased importance.

The GVWR and GAWR are stamped on the frame of the vehicle usually on the drivers side door frame. Your hauling capability (i.e., the load in the bed) is calculated by subtracting the total weight of your vehicle from your GVWR. Then subtract each "empty" axle weight from each GAWR. Which ever weight is LESS, that is, the calculated GVWR capacity or the calculated GAWR capacity, then that lesser weight is your hauling capability. The hauling capability is important because of the pin weight of the 5th-wheel.

The GCWR is your towing capability, i.e., what you can pull. It is not stamped on the door frame since it has too many other variables associated with it such as type/size engine, type transmission, gear ratio, etc., all of which affect your towing capacity. You can find the GCWR in your manual -- typically in a table where you have to line-across from the different equipment in your rig.

On my rig, I can haul 2,000 pounds (pin weight) and I can tow 15,100 pounds (dead weight behind the rig). The two weight capabilities are two very different things and when hauling a 5th-wheel, you need to pay attention to both.



> Wow, 21-24, that is incredible....


That's what I typically get. Actually got 26 on one tank while in Rapid City. Of course it was right after I had a new fuel filter and air cleaner installed. Usually with a combination of city and highway (30/70), I'll come out with a hair better than 22 mpg.


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## SoCalOutback (Dec 18, 2005)

having_fun said:


> Wow, 21-24, that is incredible, are there other OB's out there that get that good a mileage? I may need to rethink this.


I get 21-23 with my '05 F250 diesel. About 14 when towing my 26rs.


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

We normaly get 20mpg with the DW 1/2 ton 4x4 6.5td tahoe and about 11-12mpg towing our 25rss. You can get a 1 ton diesel that's not a dually . James


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

> You can get a 1 ton diesel that's not a dually...


Yes, that's exactly what mine is -- 1-ton, singles, 4x4, 5.9 diesel, quad cab, automatic.


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