# New Tv Decision - Need Help



## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

Well I got DWs permission to get a truck to replace her Expedition for towing the Outback. We'll be replacing the Expedition with one of the two vehicles below. Each has benefits but I can't quite decide which way to go. Any help or opinions would be appreciated. I've researched both vehicles extensively and either should be able to handle our 26RS much better than the Expedition. We have 3 kids, ages 11, 9, and 6, that make the CrewCab a necessity. We expect to drive the truck about 10K miles per year and I plan to keep the truck for at least 10 years.

Option 1
2007 Ford F-250 CrewCab 2WD XLT
6.0L Turbo Diesel with 5-speed automatic

My local Ford dealer has a few remaining 07 models and one of them has most of the items I would want including the TowCommand system. Ford is offering $4,500 in rebates for this truck and I think I can get it for close to the invoice price. Price after rebates would be about $32K. The dealer has had this truck for awhile and I made them an offer that included trading in my Expedition but I guess I wanted too much in trade for my Expedition so they didn't even call me back. I'm now planning to just sell the Expedition and take the trade-in out of the process. I feel like the truck could be gone any day now so if I'm going to go this route I probably need to act fairly quickly.

Option 2
2007 Toyota Tundra CrewMax 2WD SR5
5.7L Gas with 6-speed automatic

At first I wasn't considering the Toyota but after the Ford guys wouldn't even call me back to blow off my offer I decided to look at the new Tundra CrewMax. I was impressed with the interior, especially the rear seat layout for the kids. The truck should handle our trailer just fine and it has a few features such as stability control and traction control that the Ford doesn't have. The gas motor is probably better for controlling the speed going downhill but the Ford transmission is supposed to have a mode that helps with the usually poor diesel engine braking. Toyota is offering $2,500 rebates for this truck and the price after rebate would also be very close to $32K. I don't feel as much pressure to get the Toyota but the rebates will probably end soon when the 08s start coming out. I've also noticed that getting the combination of options that I want might be extremely difficult.

Any help from those of you that have these vehicles would be greatly appreciated. I'm leaning towards the F-250 but the dealer has been frustrating to work with.

Thanks,


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

This is only my opinion, so if I had to pick one of the two I would go with the Diesel (more low end torque). James


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## wtscl (May 22, 2007)

As a Toyota Tundra owner, I would jump all over the Tundra Crew Max. I currently have a 2004 Tundra Double Cab and it pulls my 28RSDS very well. I would love to have the towing capacity of the '07, but can't swing a new truck right now. The only downside to the Tundra right now is: I have heard of some problems with the 5.7L engine. I don't know to what extent, but it would be worth checking into. I was always a Ford fan growing up, but now that I have "drank the kool-aid" of Toyota, I'm hooked. Rumor also has it that they are going to put a deisel into the Tundra in '09/'10.

Good luck. Be sure to post a picture of your NEW truck when you get it home.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

My opinion:
FORD and DIESEL. Power and Torque combination is better. Resale will be better. Gas mileage will be better. It is bigger (i think) so it may be more stable. Its been out for a while so there should not be any surprises.

Good luck!
DT


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## WillTy3 (Jul 20, 2004)

I like the Tundra!!!

Will


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## webeopelas (Mar 11, 2006)

You can't compare the two directly. The toyota is a half-ton and the Ford is a 3/4 ton diesel. Worlds of difference between brakes, transmission, suspension, not to mention the TORQUE of a diesel.

If you are happy with your current trailer, don't plan on upgrading anytime soon, then the Toyota could be a great truck for you.

If you really will keep the truck for 10 years... Diesel all the way. Take care of the engine and you can put 200,000 - 300,000 miles on it. Plus the 3/4 ton gives you room to move to a BIG trailer or a mid size fifth-wheel in the future.

I am ecstatic with my Dodge Cummins and I only have 2500 miles on it.

The only real reason to choose one truck over the other is what you plan to do with it.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

webeopelas said:


> You can't compare the two directly. The toyota is a half-ton and the Ford is a 3/4 ton diesel. Worlds of difference between brakes, transmission, suspension, not to mention the TORQUE of a diesel.


Big X2 on that !!


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## having_fun (Jun 19, 2006)

Gosh, if they are about the same price, and one is a 3/4 ton and diesel ,,,,,,,,, what's the question again???? Reminds me of the commercial "duh".







Please dont be offended Toyota owners. I like Toyota, and when they figure out how to build a 3/4 ton truck, detroit better look out.


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Diesel!


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

Mark,

With all due respect, I think you have it backwards on the grade braking capability of diesel vs. gassers. The higher compression of the diesels are much more effective at grade braking than gas engines; its why all those OTR tractors have exhaust brakes. I know that both the Ford and the GM truck transmissions also have programming to support grade braking; not sure about the Toyota. I just got my Duramax/Allison almost 2 weeks ago, and I can tell you the Allison 6 speed tranny is unlike anything I have ever encountered, and is the same transmission put into medium duty commercial trucks and busses.

Also, the Toyota might 'pull' the trailer fine, but I'll bet $$ that you will be over your GVWR on that 1/2 ton CrewMax when loaded for camping. I pull a 26RS also, and I was over my GVWR with my 1/2 Chevy, which is why I traded up. Go back to the Toyota dealer and look at the sticker on the driver's side door post. It will show you the payload capacity of that particular truck with options. I'm guessing it will be in the 1500 lb. range; it simply doesn't have the suspension/axles/tires that a 3/4 ton has. The F-250 will be 2400 lbs+ since it is a 2WD.

At the risk of opening a can of worms, why are you not considering the Duramax/Allison? I initially looked at the Ford, but the well-documented problems with the 6.0L and injectors scared me away. Ford sells a lot more diesels than GM, but the DMax/Ally has a very good track record.

BTW, I just burned through my second tank of diesel in the new truck, and averaged 18.0 MPG!







Not bad for a 6600 lb. vehicle!

JT


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

Isn't asking a bunch of Outbackers which truck to buy a little like asking a bunch of sex maniacs which woman to choose? I mean, everyone has a different taste and I suspect my taste might not be yours.

For the record, according to the Toyota web site, a fully dressed-out Tundra with the 5.7 is still rated at 10,200. That is a WHOLE lot of trailer. I love the Toyota and can vouch that, just like with a diesel, if you treat the engine and transmission right you should be able to easily get 250K miles out of it, easy. All this being said, I might have to go with the F-350 only because I like my future options a little better.

Another thing. The Toyota Tundra has consistently retained a higher percentage of it's original value than any other gas powered truck in the U.S.. Compared to the diesels of the big 3, the Tundra beat the 250/2500 class in resale percentage and tied the 350/3500. I base this on my July 2006 NADA yellow book. It's a year old but I think it is pretty accurate, percentage wise.

Reverie


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

The diesel has prolly twice the engine braking power versus gas.

As far as which truck, I would buy the last year model 6.0 diesel, which is a pretty great engine now that the bugs have been worked out, WAY before a first year, totally new Toyota.. In my thoughts even perfect Toyota will have issues with a first year vehicle.. And they have had a few, which is only normal..

BUY THE FORD!

Carey


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## Cajuncountry (Jan 4, 2007)

My personal experiences will tell you to go to the Ford 3/4 ton. I had a 1/2 ton Nissan Titan that was way wihin the numbers for my TT. However I just did not feel that I was getting that total safe feeling so I upgraded to a Ford F250 5.4. I can tell you that the difference in just the stability of a 3/4 ton is worth the purchase. I cannot comment on the diesel but I can say that I feel so much safer and would never tow a TT with a 1/2 ton again, no matter what they advertise about towing prformance. Just my two cents since you have th chance to upgrade do it, you won't regret it.


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

The Tundra has massive rotors and brake calipers, along with tow/haul mode that helps with grade braking. The Tundra's rotors are 13.9 and 13.6 inches (front/rear), and vented front and rear. The front calipers also have four pistons each. Compare that with 13.66 and 13.39 inches (front/rear) and no mention of venting for the F-250. I wouldn't worry about stopping power too much - I haven't had any issues at all with stopping our 28RSDS.

As mentioned, you will be close to the GVWR of the vehicle, so take that into account, and also consider your future needs. Never know when fiver fever is gonna strike......

What you may regret is the gas mileage with the Tundra. I'm averaging 10.5mpg overall







Only about 8mpg towing and at best 13-15mpg on the freeway with a good tailwind.....


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## webeopelas (Mar 11, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> The diesel has prolly *twice the engine braking power versus gas.*


Only with an exhaust brake, which does not come standard (at least it didn't on my 5.9L Dodge. 6.7L does)

A diesel without an exhaust brake has effectively NO engine braking power. A gas engine is air limited meaning that when you let off the accelerator, it also reduces the airflow, causing a vacuum in the cylinders which slows down the vehicle.

A diesel is strictly fuel limited, meaning air is free to flow to the cylinders even under idle throttle. Add on top of that the almost double compression ratio, gives the pistons a push even with no fuel.

(At least that is what I have read and why exhaust brakes are so popular with diesels. Anybody got $1200 laying around? I really want one







)


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## raynardo (Jun 8, 2007)

All things considered, I'd definitely go with the Ford diesel. This is a truck that's built for towing. Just the TowCommand integrated brake controller is to die for. The power of the diesel is phenomenal, no hill is too big, either going uphill or downhill. And remember a 3/4 ton truck is built beefier than a 1/2 ton truck.

And now the Ford end-of-the-year cash/discount/incentives, including the 0% financing, not to mention the resale value of a diesel, should make this an easy decision.

As far as the dealership goes, I'm sure there have to be more Ford dealers in your area. In any case, if you have the names of the people you dealt with (you kept their business cards, right?), I'd write a short note to the general manager of that dealership outlining your experience, which, unless your requested trade-in value was way out of line, is not tolerated by Ford.

And no, I don't work for Ford. I just drive a 2006 Powerstroke diesel 4x4 crewcab with automatic transmission, and am a very satisfied customer. I smile every time I pull my 2006 26RKS!


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Those two trucks aren't in the same class. Just my opinion but...if the two were say, 6-8k apart, you might get a post from me debating the two options. Even money? Cripes man...

If you don't like that Ford dealer, call Anthony at Pollard Ford here in Lubbock, TX. As of a few weeks ago, they still had left over '07's.

-CC


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

Thanks all for the comments and observations.

GoVols and others:
Good call on the GVWR of the Tundra, I hadn't really checked into that and you're right loaded for camping I'll probably be very close to the trucks weight limit. The GVWR was one of the things where I wanted more margin that what I currently have with my Expedition. I'm close if not over with the Expedition and want some margin to carry things like firewood that I have to buy at the campground now.

GoVols:
I looked at the Chevy 2500HD with the Duramax/Allison and it's a great truck but they're at least $3K more than the 07 F250. I also looked at the Dodge MegaCab but once again the cost was quite high compared to the F250.

Insomniak:
Thanks for the real-world info on towing mileage with the Tundra. With the Expedition we got about 9 mpg towing and I was hoping that the Tundras towing mileage would be better.

Many have suggested checking other dealers and I spent about 2 hours on Fords website checking all of the dealers within 250 miles of where I live and none of them have anything that's better than what the local dealer has. Since these are leftover 07s there's not many options to find exactly what I want at this point. I looked at the new 08s but they are more expensive and I don't want to worry about a brand new diesel engine. Thanks for the help I'm going to check on the loan with my credit union tomorrow and see if I can get the dealer to bite on my offer. Wish me luck.


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

Most LD/HD trucks today come with a Tow/Haul mode. This mode changes shift points to maximize torque and reduce shift cycling when towing heavy loads. It is not to be confused with grade braking capabilities found on the HD GM and Fords (I don't know about the Dodge). All trucks, simply because they have transmissions, do have some engine braking ability with the driver's _manual_ intervention (by downshifting the transmission). In contrast, the Allison transmission in GM vehicles actively downshifts the transmission automatically by detecting several factors, like throttle position, brake status, acceleration/deceleration, grade, load, etc. No manual driver intervention is needed to accomplish grade braking, and the transmission will continue to downshift if the parameters above are met. In addition, the Ally has 'cruise grade braking', which will maintain a speed set with the cruise control. I have not seen any material that suggests that the Tundra has these grade braking capabilities.

In addition, and I'm borrowing an explanation I got from a mechanic, the tranmissions in 1/2 ton trucks, SUVs and passenger cars employ a friction clutch and a one-way clutch which by design allow for more free-wheeling and less restriction on rolling movement. By contrast, at least with the Allison, the transmission employs two friction clutches and causes the transmission to behave more like a manual tranmission that is always in a gear. In this way, a HD truck is going to have better engine braking capability than a 1/2 ton truck.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Compare the power, torque, GVWR, and GCWR and I think you'll find that the F-250 is something that Toy can't even begin to match. I would be very surprised if there wasn't a huge difference between the two. I'd be very interested in what you find out.


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

Okay I did some checking on the weight ratings of these two trucks and my Expedition. Some of the numbers are approximate but they should be close and are good for comparison purposes.

Current 03 Expedition

Curb Weight - 5700
GVWR - 7300
Payload - 1600
Tow Cap. - 8650
GCWR - 14500

07 Tundra 2WD Crewmax

Curb Weight - 5395
GVWR - 7000
Payload - 1605
Tow Cap. - 10400
GCWR - 16000

07 F250 2WD Crewcab (short bed)

Curb Weight - 6000
GVWR - 9600
Payload - 3000
Tow Cap. - 12500
GCWR - 23000

This was a very useful comparison for me and thanks for the heads up to check the weights. I was looking at tow capacity and I might have overlooked the fact that the Tundra has no better payload capacity than my Expedition. Last year I weighed the items I was carrying in the Expedition for camping and when you add the weight of 2 adults, 3 kids and the trailer tongue weight I was exceeding the payload capacity by a small amount. Since the Tundra doesn't really give me any more capacity than my current TV it would be a poor choice. I guess my next step is find a way to work with the Ford dealer. Thanks for the information I would have missed the GVWR comparison.


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## Txcamper (Apr 3, 2006)

I have owned both Toyota a 1992 and 1993 (drove the '93 for over 10 years and 170k miles) pick ups and Ford pick ups F250 and now F350. I would recommend the Ford Superduty.... and remember it can carry much more than the Toyota as it is really more than "3/4" ton truck. Just stay away from the '03 and maybe '04 model years of the PSD. Pulling a large trailer with the Superduty is much more pleasant than with a smaller truck.

I would also recommend the long bed/ crew cab with the towing package or heavy duty suspension.


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

And so goes the story with most 1/2 ton trucks!

I guess it comes down to what you want to use the truck for - every day driving, towing only, hauling stuff, etc. I didn't want a truck, and really don't like driving one for everyday business and chores. The 1/2 ton manufacturers are going after the market that can't give up their SUV, but still wants to tow once in a while and get some plywood and drywall at Home Depot. Just don't try to do both at the same time because you'll be overweight!

We picked the Tundra because of the huge amount of interior space, styling, and the fact that the rear seats slide and recline - a big advantage when you need car seats for the kiddies. It also rides a little more like a car than a truck. We travel pretty light when we pull the trailer, and don't throw much into the bed of the truck (not like there's much space with a short bed anyway). With 390 horsepower and 401 foot-pounds of torque, the Tundra pulls the trailer without busting a gut. Course, with the diesel you'll have about 50% more torque in the low end of the rpm range









As always, your mileage will vary, although with the Tundra it would just SUCK (can you tell I'm not happy with that one little minor itty-bitty detail?)


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

keeper18 said:


> The diesel has prolly twice the engine braking power versus gas.
> 
> As far as which truck, I would buy the last year model 6.0 diesel, which is a pretty great engine now that the bugs have been worked out, WAY before a first year, totally new Toyota.. In my thoughts even perfect Toyota will have issues with a first year vehicle.. And they have had a few, which is only normal..
> 
> ...


FYI, diesels by themselves have almost no braking capabilty. That's why the highway tractors have either a compression brake(Jake Brake) or an exhaust brake. A gas engine gets it's braking capability due to the simple fact that it has a throttle valve. When the throttle is closed, little to no air can get in to fill the cylinders, creating a powerful vacuum on the intake stroke. A diesel has no throttle valve so air flows freely and any braking power received from compression is simply cancelled by the same air expanding on the downward stroke.
[/quote]

I know this.. I would think every one who wants to own a diesel would have an exhaust brake installed.. In my book if you have a diesel pu then a exhaust brake is part of it.. I couldnt even imagine owning one without it.. Never crossed my mind.. lol Thats one of the major points in owning a diesel isnt it? have power to go up the hill and have an engine brake to go down.. Just cant imagine having a diesel without an exhaust brake.

Carey


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## raynardo (Jun 8, 2007)

> I know this.. I would think every one who wants to own a diesel would have an exhaust brake installed.. In my book if you have a diesel pu then a exhaust brake is part of it.. I couldnt even imagine owning one without it.. Never crossed my mind.. lol Thats one of the major points in owning a diesel isnt it? have power to go up the hill and have an engine brake to go down.. Just cant imagine having a diesel without an exhaust brake.


The stock TowCommand brake controller I have in my 2006 F250 PowerStroke diesel combined with the transmission Tow/Haul setting seems to work just fine for me. I never find myself riding the brakes on a downhill, even towing with the cruise control on. Another reason to choose the Ford, eh?


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## webeopelas (Mar 11, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> The diesel has prolly twice the engine braking power versus gas.
> 
> As far as which truck, I would buy the last year model 6.0 diesel, which is a pretty great engine now that the bugs have been worked out, WAY before a first year, totally new Toyota.. In my thoughts even perfect Toyota will have issues with a first year vehicle.. And they have had a few, which is only normal..
> 
> ...


FYI, diesels by themselves have almost no braking capabilty. That's why the highway tractors have either a compression brake(Jake Brake) or an exhaust brake. A gas engine gets it's braking capability due to the simple fact that it has a throttle valve. When the throttle is closed, little to no air can get in to fill the cylinders, creating a powerful vacuum on the intake stroke. A diesel has no throttle valve so air flows freely and any braking power received from compression is simply cancelled by the same air expanding on the downward stroke.
[/quote]

I know this.. I would think every one who wants to own a diesel would have an exhaust brake installed.. In my book if you have a diesel pu then a exhaust brake is part of it.. I couldnt even imagine owning one without it.. Never crossed my mind.. lol Thats one of the major points in owning a diesel isnt it? have power to go up the hill and have an engine brake to go down.. Just cant imagine having a diesel without an exhaust brake.

Carey
[/quote]
I do want one, just can't spend the 1200 bucks to get one right now


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

webeopelas said:


> The diesel has prolly *twice the engine braking power versus gas.*


Only with an exhaust brake, which does not come standard (at least it didn't on my 5.9L Dodge. 6.7L does)

A diesel without an exhaust brake has effectively NO engine braking power. A gas engine is air limited meaning that when you let off the accelerator, it also reduces the airflow, causing a vacuum in the cylinders which slows down the vehicle.

A diesel is strictly fuel limited, meaning air is free to flow to the cylinders even under idle throttle. Add on top of that the almost double compression ratio, gives the pistons a push even with no fuel.

(At least that is what I have read and why exhaust brakes are so popular with diesels. Anybody got $1200 laying around? I really want one







)
[/quote]

The tundra is using transmission braking, not the same as an exhaust brake....this is standard on the 5.7 tundra, but i thought you could option an exhaust brake on the diesels. either way if you are considering a larger trailer in the future and the 2 trucks are similiar in options just get the ford and a fire extingusher. Seriously bigger is always better for towing, also the crew max doesnt have much of a bed.


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

FYI. This from the Allison Transmission FAQs:

Q. Exhaust Brake - What is the effect of an exhaust brake on the transmission?
A. Exhaust brakes are widely used in the medium/heavy duty truck market, and Allison publishes guidelines for integrating exhaust brake controls with the TCM. This integration is necessary so that the transmission can alter its shift characteristics to maximize the exhaust brake's effectiveness and not adversely affect transmission operation when the exhaust brake is not in use.
Allison Engineering has tested one manufacturer's aftermarket exhaust brake on a Duramax equipped pickup. This installation was made per the manufacturer's instructions and had no provision for communicating to the TCM when the exhaust brake was in use, and thus resulted in harsh/objectionable shift characteristics and a negative impact to grade braking performance when exhaust brake was activated. The benefit of the exhaust brake was also lessened in certain circumstances due to the lack of TCM integration.

I would think the same thing would occur with the PSD and its transmission since transmissions and engines are integrated through the vehicle's computer.


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Just an FYI, the Ford Torque-Shift 5 speed auto also works similar to the Allison in that when the Tow/Haul mode is selected, it will downshift when braking, and adjust to the speed of the vehicle. In addition, if the cruise control is set, it will maintain the set speed while going downhill by downshifting.

I would seriously consider the diesel 3/4, especially if they are the same money.

Tim


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Be careful on Exhaust brakes and Diesels. I think the Cummins is the only one that doesn't void your warranty







(That's a BIG deal on these engines with their expensive electronics to control fuel injection, and turbos, etc.)

Tow/Haul mode does an admirable job with braking on all three units (allison may have invented, but the copies also work!!!


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## vikecowboy (Aug 17, 2006)

The Tundra will have NO problems pulling your camper. My 05 will have NO problems pulling your camper and the new Tundra is more powerful. I would guess you would hardly tell the camper is behind you with the new Tundra.

I think it boils down to how much you tow. If not a whole lot, why buy an overpowered diesel? If you plan on towing alot then maybe a diesel.

Good luck to you and your decision.


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

No disrespect intended, but anyone who finds these two trucks remotely comparable has lost their objectivity.

If you're planning on keeping the truck 10 years as you say, then it would seem to be a clear choice to take the Ford. It is simply prepared for almost any change in your RV'ing style that may occur over this extended period of time.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

vikecowboy said:


> ...
> I think it boils down to how much you tow. If not a whole lot, why buy an overpowered diesel? If you plan on towing alot then maybe a diesel.


I guess I don't understand this statement.







Is there such a thing as too much power?!?!


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## lesseik (Sep 18, 2005)

I mean no disrespect to toyota owners,







but, putting all the extra towing capabilities aside ( my fav is superduties all the way) *I like to saybe American, buy American*....yeah I know all the talk wellllll, "the toyotas are made in the USA," but you are still lining the pockets of a Non USA CEO/Corporation! My vote is Ford!

[


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## vikecowboy (Aug 17, 2006)

Doesn't make much sense to me to buy a big diesel when you are only towing something once or twice a month and only in the summer. If you are going to be using your truck on a daily basis but not for towing or major hauling - why get the diesel. If you are towing or hauling big loads often, get the diesel.

The older and especially the newer Tundra will easily tow his camper, give him adequate cab room for his family, ride like a car, hold it's value, etc. So if he doesn't require a bigger truck for his daily life, I would get the Tundra. If he requires a bigger truck in his daily life, I would get the diesel.

Different strokes for different folks.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

MJRey said:


> This was a very useful comparison for me and thanks for the heads up to check the weights. I was looking at tow capacity and I might have overlooked the fact that the Tundra has no better payload capacity than my Expedition. Last year I weighed the items I was carrying in the Expedition for camping and when you add the weight of 2 adults, 3 kids and the trailer tongue weight I was exceeding the payload capacity by a small amount. Since the Tundra doesn't really give me any more capacity than my current TV it would be a poor choice. I guess my next step is find a way to work with the Ford dealer. Thanks for the information I would have missed the GVWR comparison.


Sounds like he already made his choice....a good one I might add!


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

vikecowboy said:


> Doesn't make much sense to me to buy a big diesel when you are only towing something once or twice a month and only in the summer. If you are going to be using your truck on a daily basis but not for towing or major hauling - why get the diesel. If you are towing or hauling big loads often, get the diesel.
> 
> The older and especially the newer Tundra will easily tow his camper, give him adequate cab room for his family, ride like a car, hold it's value, etc. So if he doesn't require a bigger truck for his daily life, I would get the Tundra. If he requires a bigger truck in his daily life, I would get the diesel.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks.


With all due respect, simply looking at towing capacity and ignoring payload capacity or GVWR is a potentially dangerous viewpoint. It's like only looking at the length of your camper but ignoring the height when about to go under a low overpass! That spanky new 1/2 ton truck may tow 10,000 lbs, but it is still a half ton truck. I could have upgraded to GM's "Vortec Max" package and gained up to 10,500 lbs. of towing capacity, but I would have gained nothing in the payload capacity department.

Safety is a factor whether you are towing once a month or five times a month.


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## vikecowboy (Aug 17, 2006)

With all due respect,

My old Tundra and the new Tundra would safety tow his camper, family, equipment, etc once a month or 30 times a month...

I am done with this topic.


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Yes, the Toyota is fine for towing that trailer today. Until you decided to buy a fifth wheel in two years. It's the whole longevity thing in question here. He's looking for something to meet his needs for "10 years".


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## vikecowboy (Aug 17, 2006)

I agree with that!

But the FORD will not last 10 years!


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

vikecowboy said:


> With all due respect,
> 
> My old Tundra and the new Tundra would safety tow his camper, family, equipment, etc once a month or 30 times a month...
> 
> I am done with this topic.


Vikecowboy, I have the EXACT same camper that is being discussed. I towed it with a 1/2 ton Chevy with 7000 GVWR -- same as the Tundra being discussed. All I am saying is that loaded for camping, I was over the GVWR of the truck while I still had room on the towing capacity. I think there is a high probabilty that the Tundra would be at or over as well.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

> Just cant imagine having a diesel without an exhaust brake.


I couldn't imagine it either, but then I got one and can say it has not been a big deal. Believe you can get an exhaust brake on most any manual diesel, but only the mst recent automatics allow exhaust brakes without voiding the warranty. My 1-ton Dodge is an '05 with an automatic and, in '05, Dodge did not allow for an exhaust brake (they do now). We put about 10,000 towing miles on our RV each winter and the lack of an exhaust brake has not been a big deal. We have gone down 15 mile long 6% grades and many shorter 8% and 9% grades and never had an issue. Of course, you don't rocket down the grade -- you have to respect the grade and your load and drive sensibly, but you should do that whether you have an exhaust brake or not. I would not let the lack of an exhaust brake deter me from getting the diesel truck vs. the toy.



> simply looking at towing capacity and ignoring payload capacity or GVWR is a potentially dangerous


OH YEAH! BIG TIME! Many people, including dealers, do nothing more than look at GCWR, but you are most likely to bust the GVWR long before busting the GCWR whether towing a TT or 5. Of course, you can put in an additional leaf spring or add air bags, and they may make you feel warm and fuzzy because your load is now level. Unfortunately, being level doesn't do anything to change the numbers. It does not matter how you tweak your truck, the absolute end result is that you are either over your GVWR or not. If over, then you are illegal. Most of the time you will get away with it because RV's aren't normally checked. However, Canada and California do periodically check and some of the other states are following suit. We talked to a guy last winter who the cops suspected of being over his weight limits, so they stopped him, escorted him to the nearest scales, gave him a $1,200 fine, and he was not permitted to take his RV any further until he could make other arrangements to have it moved. Believe he had it towed to a storage facility then bought a new TV.

As far as a daily driver.... Before retiring, I drove both my '97 Ford PSD and my Cummins on a daily basis. No problems whatsoever. I actually loved it -- particularly in snow since I would be moving when no one else was. Oh, and my mpg in the city with either rig was about 18. Heck, I get between 14 and 16 when towing! Out on the highway (not towing) 21 mpg is my average, but I have had it as high as 26 mpg. Nope, don't even begin to think that the toy is in the same category as the F-250 -- just no way, not even comparable. Sorry if that statement offends some folks.


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## vikecowboy (Aug 17, 2006)

Never said they were in the same category, just that the Tundra would work fine for him with his current 26RS.

Also not offended! I use to be a Ford man myself!

Take care guys


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## Dan V (May 21, 2006)

vikecowboy said:


> Doesn't make much sense to me to buy a big diesel when you are only towing something once or twice a month and only in the summer. If you are going to be using your truck on a daily basis but not for towing or major hauling - why get the diesel. If you are towing or hauling big loads often, get the diesel.
> 
> The older and especially the newer Tundra will easily tow his camper, give him adequate cab room for his family, ride like a car, hold it's value, etc. So if he doesn't require a bigger truck for his daily life, I would get the Tundra. If he requires a bigger truck in his daily life, I would get the diesel.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks.


Why get the diesel for a daily driver ? I don't know , How about just over 20 MPG City / Highway for starters ? As someone else said , whats wrong with more power , especially with those kind of numbers ? You , want or need a commuter , get a Jap 4- banger ! You want to tow , especially something that big get a 3/4 ton or larger truck .

As far as the Toyota Tundra , a 1/2 ton , to a 3/4 ton comparison , thats just ridiculous . Like comparing apples to oranges , They are not in the same league !


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

MJRey,

That Payload rating for the Ford 3/4 Ton is wrong! Plan on it having a payload of around 2200lbs up to 2400 lbs. The diesel and the trans eat away at that 3000 payload in a hurry. I mention it because many of us buy a 3/4 Ton thinking we can pull any 5'er out there. Well we can pull it but too bad it breaks GVWR.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

> That Payload rating for the Ford 3/4 Ton is wrong!


It's not wrong -- he was working off of average advertised base weights. Variable would be a better word, since any added equipment or changes to the base design will effect the available payload. Get a 4x4 and you subtract 500 to 700 pounds from your available payload, Get a diesel vs. a gas and you subtract more. Add anything that increases the weight of your vehicle (tool box in the bed, your rv hitch, spray-on bed liner, etc, etc) and you decrease payload.

In the case of my 1-ton Dodge, I only have a disappointing 2,000 pounds of available payload. If you look at the hitch weight of almost any 5er over 30', particularly if they have a front bedroom slide, you will find that it's empty hitch weight is 1,900 plus -- many start out at 2,000 or 2,100 pounds. That means I could legally pull it off the lot, but that's about all. And that's on a 1-ton. Now, if I didn't have a 4x4, then I could pull almost anything except for the very largest.

The new F-250's, as far as payload is concerned, is more comparable to a 1-ton. Neither Dodge or Chevy can even come close to the available payload of the Ford's. That's not the case with the older F-250's, tho. Believe Ford started increasing their GVWR's in about '04 or '05 -- not sure what Ford changed, but probably frame design and tires. The F-350 is even more impressive as it has a GVWR of about 11,400 pounds. My ideal rig would be an F-350 with a Cummins engine and Allison trans. Too bad that rig isn't made.


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

vdub said:


> My ideal rig would be an F-350 with a Cummins engine and Allison trans. Too bad that rig isn't made.


Mine too!, but you could get an F650 with a Cummins/Allison combo, or a CAT/Allison combo for that matter.

Tim


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

hatcityhosehauler said:


> My ideal rig would be an F-350 with a Cummins engine and Allison trans. Too bad that rig isn't made.


Mine too!, but you could get an F650 with a Cummins/Allison combo, or a CAT/Allison combo for that matter.

Tim
[/quote]
STOP TEASING ME !!!! Where is the money tree. Could somebody tell me where the money tree is? Im needing it right about now.


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## vikecowboy (Aug 17, 2006)

That is why he should be a Tundra!! Oh no I started another chain of replies!!

Sorry!


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

It seems to me like you're trying to compare apples to oranges. ...3/4 ton diesel to a 1/2 ton gasser?

Mark


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Soooo????

Did Mark ever get a new truck??


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## NobleEagle (Jul 8, 2006)

Did you ever consider a Land Rover?


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

NobleEagle said:


> Did you ever consider a Land Rover?


Oh gosh, that didnt take long did it.....


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

NobleEagle said:


> Did you ever consider a Land Rover?


Helpful hint from Heloise: don't tow when it's windy!


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Last spring I towed through Guadalupe Pass with 60 mph gusting crosswinds. Slowed down to between 35 and 50 (depending on what it looked like ahead), but everything handled just fine. The 5 rocked a bit, but the tv was rock solid and no sway.


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

> Did Mark ever get a new truck??


Not this Mark. I decided (well, the DW decided, so that's as good as me deciding) to wait until her TV is paid for first.

So, why do I have two part-time jobs again?









Mark


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

skippershe said:


> Soooo????
> 
> Did Mark ever get a new truck??


Sadly Mark has not gotten a new truck yet. I was all set this past week and went into the local Ford dealer with an X-Plan code, pre-approved loan, and all ready to buy. They had a nice 07 F250 2wd Crewcab Shortbed that I've been looking at for several weeks now. There's also $4,500 in rebates so I figured I would get it close to invoice and then with rebates it would be a great deal. When the sales manager,







, came out with the numbers I found that they had added $2,000 in accessories to the price. This wouldn't have been too bad if they hadn't been so grossly overpriced and things I wanted. So I left disgusted with the whole vehicle buying process. Sometimes, I think dealers are the auto companies worst enemies, they make buying vehicles a thoroughly unpleasant process that I try to avoid as much as possible.

But,, I may have found an even better truck at a dealer about 60 miles away. This one is a brand new 06







F250 2wd Crewcab Shortbed with a few more options than the one the local dealer has, and no dealer accessories. Because it's an 06 there are no rebates but without much effort they were willing to sell it for $34K ($42K MSRP) but I'm a little nervous about a truck that's apparently been sitting around for a year. Any thoughts on this one? Right now I'm just tired of the whole process and if I don't get something soon I'll probably just wait till next year.

Mark


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Mark,

I would keep the pressure on price wise on that '06. Around here they are starting to sell '08s for $10K off MSRP (end of model year, and all). That does not make $8K off an '06 seem like such a great deal.

And I have to agree with your assessment of car dealers. I am a major car nut myself, and buying a new vehicle ought to be a fun and exciting venture. Instead, the dealers do just a bang up job of making it a painful, aggravating and altogether frustrating experience that I have come to dread like the black plague!

What a shame that is.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

You are so right Doug, we recently bought a new truck which is a big thing for us since we don't buy new cars very often and we dreaded the whole process. Fortunately we got a very nice salesman at the dealership we went to so it went very well but all around us we could hear salesman using all the tacky lines we're so used to hearing;

customer; "I'm just looking, my lease isn't up for another year" 
salesman; "what are your lease payments? We have several of these we need to move and I can make you a deal you won't believe"
customer; " I'm just looking, really, I'm not going to buy today"
salesman; "I can make you a deal on one of these today, we have one on the lot just like you're looking for"
customer; "no really, I'm just looking and not buying today"
salesman; "come on over to my desk and let's talk"

I couldn't believe it, the guy actually went over to the salesman's desk







If those cheesy lines didn't work, they wouldn't use them, but the lure of a new car can be too much and people fall for it.

Good luck with your purchase, the right truck will come along.

Mike


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## alabamaoutback (Aug 18, 2007)

WillTy3 said:


> I like the Tundra!!!
> 
> Will


Will, I just bought a 23 rs and have the 07 Tundra. I have yet pull with it so I am glad to know you have not problem.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Keep up the persistance, it will pay off and you will be happy in the end. I cant believe you found an '06. my dealer couldnt find an 07 anywhere for me, were on to the 08s now. UGH!
Good luck!


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## LordMuut (Jul 30, 2006)

When it comes to towing, I would take a 3/4 ton over a 1/2 ton any day of the week.


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## hoby88 (Feb 18, 2006)

I would go for the* FORD*, we have a video from ford that shows the differences with the tow vehicles. It is a real eye opener for someone to see the different frames and brakes. I always been a *FORD MAN* and always will be after watching the video. Any of your local ford dealers should have this video available


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## Husker92 (Feb 11, 2006)

2007 Ford F-250 CrewCab 2WD XLT
6.0L Turbo Diesel with 5-speed automatic


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## Acadia Hiker (May 29, 2007)

hoby88 said:


> I would go for the* FORD*, we have a video from ford that shows the differences with the tow vehicles. It is a real eye opener for someone to see the different frames and brakes. I always been a *FORD MAN* and always will be after watching the video. Any of your local ford dealers should have this video available


That's called 'marketing'...


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## vikecowboy (Aug 17, 2006)

Acadia Hiker, how well does that 07 Tundra pull your Outback? I can't remember the weight of the 29BHS model.

I still think the guy should buy the Tundra but others disagree - I guess they have never owned a Tundra??

Hiker, thanks for any reply.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Mark what I do is first is find the truck I want then I look for a dealer I can work with, some times all I have to do is go to the manager tell him I don't like the salesmen I'm working with and can he get someone else. If i just can't work with a dealership then I move on, I don't care if I have to drive a few miles it is worth it.

good luck on the search


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## Acadia Hiker (May 29, 2007)

vikecowboy said:


> Acadia Hiker, how well does that 07 Tundra pull your Outback? I can't remember the weight of the 29BHS model.
> 
> I still think the guy should buy the Tundra but others disagree - I guess they have never owned a Tundra??
> 
> Hiker, thanks for any reply.


The dry weight of the 29BHS is 5545 lb. and the GVWR is 7700 lb. The tow rating of the 4.7L engine is 7800 lb. (yes, I know _all_ about GCVWR and all that schtuff...







) We haven't even come close to putting a ton of extra weight in there. We weighed the total rig, us included, and it came in at 12,200 lbs.--a full 1300 pounds _under_ the CGVWR of the Tundra.

I'm telling you, this truck does quite well pulling a trailer this big. I'm not going to win any drag races, but it gets it up to 65 mph pretty quickly. The ride is smooth, and the handling is great. Breaking is superb, though the Prodigy has some help in that. We had two incidents on our trip to Maine and it braked wonderfully.







I never felt like it was out of control.

Would I prefer the 5.7L? Am I crazy??? (Don't answer that question!







) Yeah, the extra engine would be nice. Of course, if I did, we may not have purchased our Outback and found this lovely bunch of nutcases (and I say that in the nicest of ways







).

If you've seen the commercial where the construction worker pulls in to the work site and the other guy says, "Toyota?" The first guy says, "Get in." The Tundra is an incredible machine and the 5.7L would pull any of the Outback TT models easily and safely. I'm not a "car guy," but that's my humble opinion. Any of you out there who would be interested in seeing what I mean, swing on by to your local Toyota dealership and "get in". (I should get some compensation from Toyota for this!







)


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Acadia Hiker said:


> the 5.7L would pull any of the Outback TT models easily and safely.


I like those trucks a lot, they have come a long way. You have made a pretty strong endorsement. One you might want to follow up with a disclaimer such as this.....
"Any vehicle used as a TV will perform as intended if due diligence is used in ones assement of its capabilities when combined with desired TT."









DT


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## vikecowboy (Aug 17, 2006)

Doesn't surprise me for my 05 DC pulls our 25RS very well. I think the 07 5.7 Tundra will pull Mark's camper 26RS like it is hardly back there.

Sorry guys, I would much rather have my 05 and especially the 07 1/2 ton Tundra more than any 3/4 ton vehicle out there...

I would have to get a very large 5th wheel in order to change my mind but that is not going to happen.

Good luck camping all of you and be safe.


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

Vikecowboy and others,

Thanks for the encouragement and the info. I really liked the new Tundra CrewMax, it drove really well and the interior is the best for our kids. I still can't get around the Tundras seemingly limited payload of less than 1,600 lbs. I have no doubt it has plenty of power to pull our 26RS just fine. I'm also certain that on most trips with the trailer I would be over the GVWR. I'm just surprised that Toyota wimped out with the payload rating for an otherwise superb truck. The equivalent 08 Nissan Titan has an almost 500 lb payload advantage over the Tundra while having a 1,000lb lower tow rating. If the Tundras payload rating better matched the tow rating it would have been an easy choice. I've read lots of stories of people saying they put a lot more weight in the Tundra and it handles it just fine. However unlikely it is I don't want to be in a situation where something bad happens while towing only to find myself in deep trouble because I was "overloading" the truck. At that point the only thing that's going to matter is the rated GVWR and not "what the truck can really handle". I'll probably get the F-250 with the turbo-diesel engine which is a very nice truck. It's a bit more than what I need now but I shouldn't outgrow it. I've been too busy at work the past week to even talk with any car dealers. If the dealer I talked to last week still has the truck I liked I might have time next week to get it, we'll see.


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

> I'm just surprised that Toyota wimped out with the payload rating for an otherwise superb truck.


X2 and box the frame.

-CC


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## vikecowboy (Aug 17, 2006)

Good luck to you MJRey. You must be hauling a lot to exceed the payload!!

Take care and once again good luck.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

MJRey said:


> Sorry guys, I would much rather have my 05 and especially the 07 1/2 ton Tundra more than any 3/4 ton vehicle out there...


Wow. they are nice.
DT


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## having_fun (Jun 19, 2006)

"You must be hauling a lot to exceed the payload!!"

You are subtracting out the tongue wieght from the payload right? That makes it pretty easy to go over. At 7000 lbs say, the tongue wieght would be 1050lbs (assuming 15 percent) leaving (assuming a 1,600 lbs payload) just 550 lbs for passengers and gear in the truck, and all the weight of the "options" that were not on the truck when they assinged payload and tow limits. (power locks, windows, seats, sterio, and alot of other stuff.

Does Toyota have the same disclaimer the big three do "Tow rating derived from vehicle with only the options needed to achieve that tow rating"? If so, payload will go down in a hurry. It could be that the "1600 lbs" is with passengers and options making it a more realistic number and actuallly be better than some other trucks. Does anyone know? Somewhere there is a car manufacturer that uses real numbers does anyone know which one?


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## having_fun (Jun 19, 2006)

I see that on the 5.7 long bed, the payload is 1925/2000 with the "Maximum Payload Package". That would help a great deal. And on an 8 foot bed, I could not live without the 8 foot bed!

On Toyota's web site, I could not find where it disclaimed the payload and tow rating in the fine print like the others do.


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

vikecowboy said:


> Good luck to you MJRey. You must be hauling a lot to exceed the payload!!
> 
> Take care and once again good luck.


Not really, the weights just add up pretty quickly.

Tongue Wt. 700
Hitch Head - 50
People (2 Adults 3 Kids) - 550
Generator (Honda EU2000i) - 60 (with full tank & lock)

That's getting very close to 1,400 lbs and I really haven't even put anything into the bed of the pickup yet and I'm not sure if the payload even assumes a full tank of gas. If I start putting in things like bicycles, firewood, ice chest, or other things that you would use a pickup for you quickly go over the GVWR. A few years ago I was having tire problems on my popup so I weighed litterally everything that I was taking camping and found out that I was hundreds of lbs overweight . All those things that you don't think about much add up to some pretty serious weight if you're not careful. Here's an example of something that seem's to minor to worry about, I had 5 of the steel folding chairs and they are 8lbs each, 40lbs total. That doesn't seem like much weight but think about how much stuff most people throw into the bed of their trucks and I'm sure it adds up to several hundred lbs.

I also want to get shell/cap for whatever truck I get and they weigh at least 150lbs so that's even less payload I've got to work with. It's frustrating because I think the Tundra could easily have more capacity.


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

When I traded my 1/2 ton for the 3/4 ton truck, I gave up a smoother ride for more safety margin. There is no substitute for weighing your tow vehicle and camper at the scales when they are packed for camping. And, it doesn't matter how "good" your truck "feels" when towing, it's about the numbers, it's about objective analysis and not subjective 'feel' if you are really interested in the answer. I was surprised when I actually weighed my rig, so much so I ended up weighing it on three different scales over the course of the past year! It was indisputable: I was right at or over my GVWR. I wanted to be safe (and legal), so I traded for a 3/4 ton.

Only looking at GCWR will not give you the complete picture either. I was under my GCWR but over on my GVWR, which simply confirms what has been said on this forum many times regarding 1/2 ton tow vehicles: that the limiting factor is usually the payload capacity and not the towing capacity. Unfortunately payload capacity is the one often ignored. And Keystone is no help in this department either. The dry weight and the hitch weight they quote on the website specs does not include the weight of the "option packages" (which the fine print in the brochure says to add 500 lbs for them).



vikecowboy said:


> You must be hauling a lot to exceed the payload!!


It's amazing how quickly it adds up. For instance:

560 lbs. dry hitch weight per specs (and I'll ignore the extra 500 lbs of 'option' weight since I'm not sure how much it adds to the hitch)
265 for DW, two growing kids
20 dog
120 four bicycles
30 cooler with ice
20 blue tank & 4' aluminum ladder
110 two full propane tanks
110 two 6V batteries
80 Equalizer hitch and all components (a guess)

1315 lbs total -- and that's with NOTHING packed in the camper, NOTHING in the cargo storage, and NO water on board.







That leaves only 270 lbs more that I could load that could contribute to hitch weight before exceeding my GVWR. It's hard to argue at this point I'm carrying any non-essentials, and I haven't even loaded any chocks, blocks, a bottle jack for changing a flat, food, etc. etc.

Mark, you are doing exactly the right thing by 'weighing' your options. (pun intended)


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

MJRey said:


> Good luck to you MJRey. You must be hauling a lot to exceed the payload!!
> 
> Take care and once again good luck.


Not really, the weights just add up pretty quickly.

Tongue Wt. 700
Hitch Head - 50
People (2 Adults 3 Kids) - 550
Generator (Honda EU2000i) - 60 (with full tank & lock)

That's getting very close to 1,400 lbs and I really haven't even put anything into the bed of the pickup yet and I'm not sure if the payload even assumes a full tank of gas. If I start putting in things like bicycles, firewood, ice chest, or other things that you would use a pickup for you quickly go over the GVWR. A few years ago I was having tire problems on my popup so I weighed litterally everything that I was taking camping and found out that I was hundreds of lbs overweight . All those things that you don't think about much add up to some pretty serious weight if you're not careful. Here's an example of something that seem's to minor to worry about, I had 5 of the steel folding chairs and they are 8lbs each, 40lbs total. That doesn't seem like much weight but think about how much stuff most people throw into the bed of their trucks and I'm sure it adds up to several hundred lbs.

I also want to get shell/cap for whatever truck I get and they weigh at least 150lbs so that's even less payload I've got to work with. It's frustrating because I think the Tundra could easily have more capacity.
[/quote]
Ahh, the life of a 1/2 ton truck owner. We are maxed out when we pull out of the driveway.








I could do the math on mine, but it would be worse. I have a 1630 lb payload, but I also have a couple hundred extra lbs of tounge weight.








Now when is my lease up.... oh yeah, next summer. I wonder how big I should go?!?!


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

GoVols said:


> You must be hauling a lot to exceed the payload!!


It's amazing how quickly it adds up. For instance:

560 lbs. dry hitch weight per specs (and I'll ignore the extra 500 lbs of 'option' weight since I'm not sure how much it adds to the hitch)
265 for DW, two growing kids
20 dog
120 four bicycles
30 cooler with ice
20 blue tank & 4' aluminum ladder
110 two full propane tanks
110 two 6V batteries
80 Equalizer hitch and all components (a guess)

1315 lbs total -- and that's with NOTHING packed in the camper, NOTHING in the cargo storage, and NO water on board.







That leaves only 270 lbs more that I could load that could contribute to hitch weight before exceeding my GVWR. It's hard to argue at this point I'm carrying any non-essentials, and I haven't even loaded any chocks, blocks, a bottle jack for changing a flat, food, etc. etc.

Mark, you are doing exactly the right thing by 'weighing' your options. (pun intended)
[/quote]

Hey Govols, you didn't acount for YOUR weight.








Regards, Glenn


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## engine20 (Aug 13, 2007)

MJRey said:


> I've always found there is no substitution for torque. My F250 PDS pulls great and I get good mileage pulling the TT or my 24 ft. ProLine. The tranny has Tow/Haul mode and with that engaged The up shifts are stronger and the downshifts hold longer for increased engine breaking. You might look at a four door cab. Easier to get the family in and out. Also comes with brake controller installed. Good Luck!
> 
> Well I got DWs permission to get a truck to replace her Expedition for towing the Outback. We'll be replacing the Expedition with one of the two vehicles below. Each has benefits but I can't quite decide which way to go. Any help or opinions would be appreciated. I've researched both vehicles extensively and either should be able to handle our 26RS much better than the Expedition. We have 3 kids, ages 11, 9, and 6, that make the CrewCab a necessity. We expect to drive the truck about 10K miles per year and I plan to keep the truck for at least 10 years.
> 
> ...


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

GlenninTexas said:


> Hey Govols, you didn't acount for YOUR weight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are exactly right Glenn! Let's see . . . the vehicle's weight assumes a full tank of fuel and a 150 lb. driver . . . I weigh . . . . nevermind.


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## vikecowboy (Aug 17, 2006)

I think we are going to set a record for most replies. I too was stressing out over the numbers when I was Outback shopping. I was leaning on going with the 21RS due to weight but really wanted the 25RS. My FORD friend told me to go with the bigger model for the numbers are conservative and I agreed.

I am really glad I did.

I try to distribute the weight as much as possible and have never felt unsafe with my setup. However you are the guy that has to live with your decision so do what you fell comfortable with.

I hope things work out for you, MJRey!


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## having_fun (Jun 19, 2006)

Does anyone know what the "Maximum Payload Package" is for the Tundra? It says it increases the payload on the 5.7 long bed to 1925/2000lbs? That might seriously change my thoughts about having a Tundra.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

having_fun said:


> Does anyone know what the "Maximum Payload Package" is for the Tundra? It says it increases the payload on the 5.7 long bed to 1925/2000lbs? That might seriously change my thoughts about having a Tundra.


That appears to be the max payload for the 2 door RWD long bed truck.
Despite the advertising claims of more, it really is a 1/2 ton truck!


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Really, your not reading the fine print. After you make it 4WD add a cab to it and motor you get what you get. Also look at your diesel-less 3/4. Bet your up there around 2500lbs. Ain't know way that Tundra handles the Golf Cart and the trailer.


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## vikecowboy (Aug 17, 2006)

I think the 07 Tundra can handle the golf cart and the 28BHS. I am assuming that the 28BHS weights similar to the 28RSDS model. I think Reverie pulls a 28BHS and he has an older Tundra. I even think my 05 can sefetly pull that setup but I would not set any speed records and would have to leave the tail gate open for I don't have the 8 foot bed!

This is my last post on this subject! I promise!


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

vikecowboy said:


> I think the 07 Tundra can handle . . .. I even think my 05 can sefetly pull . . .


Not to put words in Marks' mouth, but I think his intention was to be objective about the two choices, not subjective, and it's not about "pulling", it's about payload. It should be easy enough to assess; go to the Toyota dealer and find a CrewMax with the options you would want, then look at the sticker on the driver's door post. It will tell you exactly the amount of payload for that vehicle given the options tacked onto it. Same for the Ford. I would expect the 3/4 ton Ford to be anywhere from 800 to 1200 lbs more in payload capacity than the CrewMax.

While no one will stop you from buying the vehicle you 'think' can handle it, the numbers will not lie.

Hey, we've got a long way to go to top some of those posts about Topsail rallies.


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## having_fun (Jun 19, 2006)

My cart really makes even my 3/4 sag, so I wasn't suggesting putting 900 more lbs in the Tundra, mine is a "non-common" situation and I don't do it often. But I am starting to think the Tundra is a contender for most 1/2 ton applications, and better than most SUV (except the 3/4 ton) apps.

I wouldn't want an oz less truck when I have the cart as I still think I'm very close with the 3/4.

That being said, I think this thread has been very civil and non confrontational, mostly just fun gabs. But I am an engineer, and if the numbers don't add up for someone, they don't add up, and a 3/4 is the only anwser. With the focus on gas mileage and PR, I doubt that Toyota will ever make a 3/4, wanting to stay green and all. I'm not saying thats a bad thing. I'll bet the payload issue on the Tundra will be addressed.

I'm on my third truck so I can attest to the advantage of just going ahead and doing it and savig some $$$$$$$.


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