# Do We Have Enough Tv?



## doc in a box (Aug 15, 2007)

I apologize because I am sure this question has been asked. I searched but found nothing in refrence to our vehicle.

Our vehicle is a 2007 Ford Van extended. Its a 250 and it has the 5.4 engine. The coach we want is the 26kbrs. I am not familiar with all the technical jargon about weights.

What I do know is the kbrs weighs 5370 according to the books.

My husband seems to think we will be good to go so to speak but gave me the ok to ask for your proffesional opinions.

Whadda ya think?

Christine


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## doc in a box (Aug 15, 2007)

BTW...we have not yet purchased our hitch setup,so thats another option for us.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Not knowing much about the ratings for the van, I can say that having the 3/4 ton chassis will certainly be to your advantage. After adding up all of the wieghts and comparing them to the ratings of your van you may find that you will be "good to go" the weak link may be the performance of the engine in extreme (mountain) conditions.

It was suggested to me here to get an Equal-i-zer hitch. I did and am very, very happy.

Add the numbers up, trailer weight, accessories, gear, people, propane, batteries, tongue weight everything you can think of that will be included on your TT and TV when traveling. The weight rises quickly. compare these to your GCWR, GVW, etc. you may be surprised. I was with my setup.

"Any vehicle used as a TV will perform as intended if due diligence is used in ones assement of its capabilities when combined with desired TT. Safe driving and a keen awareness of weather conditions (ie. strong cross wind) also play a major role in TV and driver effectivnees. An accident can happen at any time and may not always be directly related to driver, TV, TT or combination of. The naming of brands in these posts are for general discussion and are random unless specifically called out."

Good luck! Be safe.
DT


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## having_fun (Jun 19, 2006)

The Ford E-150 has a tow rateing of 7500 lbs, so I would guess the E-250 is even higher. I would think that you would be fine.


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## kjdj (Sep 14, 2004)

Welcome from a fellow Van owner.

I would add a Roadmaster Active suspension system to you van. The Ford EXT van has a history of rollover issues, some insurance companies require the Roadmaster. The Ford extended van has an extreme axle to ball overhang.
I would also get a Reese Dual Cam instead of a friction type hitch system.

You will wish you had more horsepower but you'll be fine. 7THeaven on this board has your exact tow vehicle he should chime in soon.


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## Kamm (Apr 27, 2007)

doc in a box said:


> I apologize because I am sure this question has been asked. I searched but found nothing in refrence to our vehicle.
> 
> Our vehicle is a 2007 Ford Van extended. Its a 250 and it has the 5.4 engine. The coach we want is the 26kbrs. I am not familiar with all the technical jargon about weights.
> 
> ...


We pull our 26RS with a E150 Chateau and it pulls fine. The truck and the trailer weigh pretty close to the same and we have never had any problems with trailer sway even passing the big rigs (actually it more like them passing us). The biggest problem we have it the rig trying to pass a gas station.








This summer we travelled around the Maritines and it did work hard on some of the really big hills though.


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## Aunt B (Apr 30, 2007)

Hello,

Aunt B here. We have a 21-rs and tv is a 1500 GMC van. I'm not sure if you are stuck on Fords or not but I've heard a lot about the 5.4 being kind of a stinker for the repair dept. Also our van is very heavy. Being that it is not a 3/4 ton we checked and there is not much difference in tow capacity from the 1/2 ton to the 3/4 ton van. That being said you will get a much better tow capacity out of a pick up. Also you will need to check and see if your van has tow package because you might need tranny cooler installed and change the tires from a passenger tire to a truck tires and so forth. We love our van because the other 300 days of the year that we don't tow we can haul a lot of people. Hope this gives you some thought.

Thanks,

Aunt B

P.S. We have the 5.7 with a 373 locker and I'll tell you that it really is only a flat land hauler even with the 21-rs


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

Hi..

You really need to take a moment and do the math.

Look on line or call a dealer and ask them (for your vehicle) what the GVWR is, your payload weight, and your towing weight...

Then let us know and we then we can help you do the math to see if you are within the safety parameters...

Ghosty..


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

I beleive that Econoline has the 5.4L 2V engine. Very reliable unit, but you will be lacking on power. It will make it, but you won't win races with it.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Here's the spec's...

Ford E-Series Vans 2007


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

Ghosty said:


> Hi..
> 
> You really need to take a moment and do the math.
> 
> ...


You'll also need to know the Total Combined Weight Rating of your Tow Vehicle (TV), as this number will tell you how much your TV can safely pull, including the weight of the TV, all it's contents (and passengers), the weight of your trailer, and all of it's contents.

The GVWR only refers to the amount of weight that the suspension on your TV can handle (including tongue weight) - not how much it can pull. And the tongue weight and trailer weights for your trailer listed on the Keystone website are only dry weights. They do not include battery, propane bottles, awning, and any other things that you or your dealer has added or loaded into the trailer.

Then refer to the "RV Towing Tips" and the "Towing Calculator" documents that are pinned to the top of this topic page. Download and print these out, then read, do the weighing and the math.

The long and the short of it all is that our opinions don't matter. If the numbers don't make sense, then you will have to decide what you want to do. We might be able to give you our advice, but you are the one that has to live with it.

Just my $.02.

Mike


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## doc in a box (Aug 15, 2007)

Great info, its very much appreciated.

We took the guess work out of the equation.

We loaded up the van with everything. All the stuff we had stored from cleaning out our last camper,the bikes,grill,charcoal,tools,outdoor rug,easy up,full tank of gas etc... the whole deal....including us and had our van weighed. We weighed in at 6840#'s. The only thing we didnt have was clothes.

Then we got the actual weight of the Outback we are looking at, not the spec weight on paper this came right from the label inside the coach itself and that weighed 5370#'s. Now that is dry with no water in the tanks.

Thats a total of 12,210#'s
Our GCVWR of the van is 13,000#'s
Leaving 790#'s for whatever's, like water or grey/black tanks etc...not a lot IOHO.

My husband now is not so sure of his calculations. He does not want to have to "white knuckle" so to speak while towing and neither do I.

What do you think? Is this 790#'s enough or should we look at another plan?

Heres the thing







, we want an Outback. My husband and I think they are superior in quality to the other TT's of similar styles. Theres different brands out there like the Roos and a few others with very similar floorplans yet built a little lighter, though it never fails we compare them to an Outback and are not satisfied with anything but.

Should we...
(A)get a lighter trailer like the 21 or 23 to get the few extra #'s of cushion?
(B)get the 26kbrs because 790#'s is OK?
C Get another brand but not tell anyone so we can come back here and pretend we have an Outback









BTW...getting another TV is not an option. This one was needed by my husband for a few business related reasons.

Thanks to all you Outback experts!


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

doc in a box said:


> Great info, its very much appreciated.
> 
> We took the guess work out of the equation.
> 
> ...


Well to tell you the truth, my concern is that the weight that is listed in the camper is USUALLY not quite accurate. Manufacturers seldom include the weight of full propane tanks, battery(s), some accessories and in some cases even appliances are left out of that equation.

A rule of thumb a lot of us like to use is the 80% rule. That is the loaded weight of your trailer should not exceed 80% of your rated tow capacity. This leaves power and stopping ability. Although there are some that have towed at thier limits or even above, almost all of those people who went to a larger tow vehicle or to a smaller unit found the towing to be a completely different and comfortable experience.

I went from a Silverado 1500HD at or very near its capacities to a Ford F-250 that gave me more than a ton to spare in capacity and I was really REALLY amazed.

It is good you ask questions. Other people who are new to this or want info will read your post and learn from it too. We were all there once. Everyone of us at some point when it all boils down to it. You guys will have to make the decision. I recommend having a larger margin in your tow capacity. It's the safe way to go.

Eric


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

Question and comment on your weights. BTW, good to see you thinking through this.

1. Did you include the weight of the hitch head and its components that hang on the trailer frame?
2. The weight of the camper does not include manufacturer's "options", which for our 2006 26RS was supposedly 500 lbs. (and what is 'optional' on an OB anyway?) It does not include dealer installed options like an awning.
3. The weight on the sticker would not have included the weight of full propane tanks, so take away another 120 lbs.
4. The sticker weight would not have included a battery.
5. As you mentioned, you didn't include clothes, or the weight of water carried in hot water heater, fresh tank, gray/black tank, etc.

I'm thinking you are right at your GVWR and/or GCWR.


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## doc in a box (Aug 15, 2007)

GoVols said:


> Question and comment on your weights. BTW, good to see you thinking through this.
> 
> 1. Did you include the weight of the hitch head and its components that hang on the trailer frame?
> 2. The weight of the camper does not include manufacturer's "options", which for our 2006 26RS was supposedly 500 lbs. (and what is 'optional' on an OB anyway?) It does not include dealer installed options like an awning.
> ...


Hi...

I thought this weight on the sticker was the "actual" weight of the coach. Our 5'ver had a sticker on it that was called the shipping weight I believe. When we weighed it after we took delivery it was pnly a 3 lb difference between what the sticker said and what the scale said. Yet it was about 200lbs different from the spec'd weight.

1)Hitch...hmm. We have a hitch on the van yet its probably not the one we will use. Like I said in my op...we are also open to hitch suggestions.
2)Got ya thanks!
3)I thought the tanks weighed 30lbs a piece not 60lbs
4)Ok
5)Yup....

I dont think people realize all this stuff really adds up. I would venture to guess a lot of people are overweight with their campers.

So it sounds like we should disregard the 26kbrs and go for the 23rs...or even the 21rs?

What are your thoughts on those units?

Sorry to be a PIA!


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

See if your dealer has a scale and have them weigh the 26rks for you.

Have you possibly considered the 26rls? You wouldn't have the rear galley, but you would save a few lbs


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## doc in a box (Aug 15, 2007)

skippershe said:


> See if your dealer has a scale and have them weigh the 26rks for you.
> 
> Have you possibly considered the 26rls? You wouldn't have the rear galley, but you would save a few lbs


I had not thought about actually seeing if they would weigh it for us. Good idea!

We have 2 kids so the rls wont work that well for us. After looking into it the 23rs is looking pretty nice.

This is killing me.....tough decision. We could abandon the Outback altogether but dont want to. Something will fit safely with our needs.


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Not to steer you away from Outbacks, but one of our members Stacey R has a Max-lite This is a PDF file with photos and specs...

Their 24rs has a side slide and a rear queen slide and weighs 4480... the 25rs weighs 4390, but only has a rear slide

They seem to be very much an Outback clone with many of the same features...
Hope this helps!


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

The sticker inside the cabinet is for the wheels, trailer, frame...

Does not include appliances, propane, batteries, etc...

My trailer weighed in almost 700 pounds heavier empty when I bought it then the label said...

Also -- strongly suggest you go by the NHTSA 80% rule -- for example -- to stay within the SAFETY margin -- never exceed 80% of the recommended or maximum limit -- say that your vehicle says its maximum capacity is 10,000 pounds -- you should not exceed 8000... etc etc


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

doc in a box said:


> ...
> I dont think people realize all this stuff really adds up. I would venture to guess a lot of people are overweight with their campers.
> 
> So it sounds like we should disregard the 26kbrs and go for the 23rs...or even the 21rs?
> ...


1st, you're not a PIA, simply someone who wants to make the right (and safe) choice.








2nd, I'll bet more than 3/4 of the combos out there are over-weight. (I'm probably in that number







)
If you buy too much trailer, there are several possibilities:
1. You might never notice and not know any different
2. You might never notice until something breaks
3. You might never notice until that emergency situation and then it is too late
4. You might notice and start shopping for a new TV

If you want to avoid these scenarios, keep asking questions!








Now I wonder what F350's are running these days...


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

The weight of the trailer includes everything as it leaves the manufacturer, except propane, batteries, and any dealer installed items. According to our dealer, they don't install anything on the Outbacks - including the awning - it comes from the manufacturer. Our two Outbacks have both been within 100 pounds of the dry weight listed in the kitchen cabinet. I guess you can always call Keystone just to make sure.


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

doc in a box said:


> Question and comment on your weights. BTW, good to see you thinking through this.
> 
> 1. Did you include the weight of the hitch head and its components that hang on the trailer frame?
> 2. The weight of the camper does not include manufacturer's "options", which for our 2006 26RS was supposedly 500 lbs. (and what is 'optional' on an OB anyway?) It does not include dealer installed options like an awning.
> ...


Hi...

I thought this weight on the sticker was the "actual" weight of the coach. Our 5'ver had a sticker on it that was called the shipping weight I believe. When we weighed it after we took delivery it was pnly a 3 lb difference between what the sticker said and what the scale said. Yet it was about 200lbs different from the spec'd weight.

1)Hitch...hmm. We have a hitch on the van yet its probably not the one we will use. Like I said in my op...we are also open to hitch suggestions.
2)Got ya thanks!
3)I thought the tanks weighed 30lbs a piece not 60lbs
4)Ok
5)Yup....

I dont think people realize all this stuff really adds up. I would venture to guess a lot of people are overweight with their campers.

So it sounds like we should disregard the 26kbrs and go for the 23rs...or even the 21rs?

What are your thoughts on those units?

Sorry to be a PIA!
[/quote]

We went through the exact situation you are in now. We have an '02 F-150 SuperCrew and initially looked at the campers like 28RSDS/27RSDS. We had to lower our expectations a bit and then were considering either a 25RSS or 23RS. We went with the 23RS even though it was smaller than what we really wanted. Boy are we glad we did. There are times our 23RS is all our TV can handle and even so, we won't be doing any multi-day long hauls with this combo. We are happy with the combo we have now because it is within our towing limits and the capabilities of our tow vehicle and driver!

Curtis


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## doc in a box (Aug 15, 2007)

Thanks again everyone....

Collinsfamily,

We have decided to get a smaller TT. We are now looking at the 23rs and even the 21rs. Do you feel that your engine is not sufficient when towing the camper. Our van has the same engine. I didnt know this until now but our Van has rear airbags in the shocks. My husband runs a courier buisiness and its needed for what he carries. I dont know the specifics but I do know it can handle over 1 ton in the van, if that makes a difference.

The way we look at it....we want to be comfortable in what we get. If we sacrifice some living space for on the road comfort, thats ok. Besides....we go camping to be outside and usually only go inside at night to wind down or sleep. It appears to me that the 21rs has quite a following in the Outback community. For a smaller camper the layout seems great. It actually appears to suit us quite well.

Christine


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Christine - our 5.4l engine is the older 2v version so I only can speak to how that engine performs with the 3.55 gears we have. The performance is ok. It is not good. It is just ok. We struggle on anything except for flat ground/little wind. Small hills can have us down to 45mph and in second (passing) gear. The 5.4 does not like to be rpm'd over 3800 and the gearing in our 4spd. auto with the 3.55's does not match well to towing. We really need 3.73's at a minimum and I wish we had something like the Mopar ratio of 3.91. When towing into a headwind of 15mph or more, the throttle is usually close to being buried and we cannot maintain 65mph. I think we would be better off, really, if we had different gears. We didn't do any performance mods or change the gears in our truck because it had 80k mi. on it when we started towing and we need our truck to last a few more years. It works like it is - not great - just ok. So, we decided to live with ok for a while yet and be happy campers!

-CC


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