# Hitch Help!



## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

*From a separate topic posted by Wolfwood:*

*California Jim wrote:* 


> Be sure you get a high quality hitch system such as the Reese Dual Cam HD, Equilizer, or Hensley Arrow if you can afford it. Your 4-Runner will definately be maxed out and even then some pulling that 25RSS."


*Wolfwood responded:* 


> We will, in fact, have at least one of them as we're currently looking at ALL of them. Any input would be welcomed. Our dealer sells/installs the Blue Ox - their sister dealership handles the Reese Dual Cam (that's the one we've ordered....but times may change) ..... but we started out looking at the Hensley Arrow until we were told repeatedly that that's overkill and just won't add anything unless we're towing 28' or more. We really like what we read about the H/A but, if its not gonna give us any benefit that the others won't, we have lots of other stuff to throw the $$$ at


*California Jim continues:* 


> To address your question, because of the relatively short wheelbase of the 4-Runner (109"), I don't think that a Hensley is overkill at all and would work exceptionally well for your wheelbase and tailer length. Indeed several here are doing it now and may chime in.


*Wolfwood continues (and hopes for more input from the rest of you "in the know"):* 
Thanks - we'll definitely check the 4R's CCC and the weight of all of the hitch systems. Good news is that we've been serious wilderness campers for years. Just having the trailer feels like we're over loaded & high on luxury (ie. water, bathroom, 'frig, real stove, etc.). Not much else to take....so the 4R will carry us & the 2 (relatively small) dogs, and the canoe....and the hitch.
We've heard good stuff within the community about the Hensley (and any added security is well worth the xtra $$) but , as I said, the dealers tell us its overkill (maybe they just want to sell us their's). Most recently we're told that IF the trailer needs service, our TV would have to be left with it in order for it to be moved. Sure would appreciate any info available from you all in order to debunk what I can and get real info on both the Reese DC and BlueOx.

I'm impatient and want to make the decision - I want it all figured out NOW .... but the trailer won't be here for another 2 weeks so I guess I need to chill abit, eh?


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

My feelings are there is no such thing as overkill regarding safety. I do not have a Hensley but if you could afford it and want it, I would. You would not have to leave your vehicle when service is done, you can take it off. I recently watched someone and it was not to bad, getting back on alone is another matter but if you were at the dealer there is no reason they would not give you a hand.

Better to research your choice now so you do not change later and waste money on something that is not working well.

Good Luck

John


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

Agree that there is no such thing as overkill in safety --

BUT -- do agree there are times when overkill is simply overkill and poses no additional value ...

As I stated before -- I personally think that you are at your limits with the Pathfinder and that you are trying to increase your safety margin by purchasing the Hensley -- and that is admirable -- however -- I don't think that you are going to get any substantial improvement in towing, weight distribution or sway with a Hensley as compared to a REESE (which is 100s less) with "your" particular vehicle.

I did tow my 23RS with my Xterra with a Reese WD/SWAY hitch for a short time until I could purchase a new truck and it did fine -- the hitch that is -- the poor engine and transmission struggled from the get-go.. (I hope that your Pathfinder at least has a temp gauge on it so you know when things are about to go bad) ...

but once again -- you will find two school of thoughts on towing on Outback.com...

the first is -- hey -- if whatever you have can make the trailer wheels roll -- then you can tow it ...

the second is that you need to be less then 80% of the maximum tow rate your vehicle can handle --

and fortunately both school of thought are correct -- just depends on whcih side of the safety line you want to straddle...

But -- if you were talking about a bigger truck and a bigger trailer I would say that the Hensley was better -- but with your wheelbase already short -- I don't think that Hensley vs. Reese is going to be significant...

just my .02c


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## Not Yet (Dec 13, 2004)

Ghosty said:


> But -- if you were talking about a bigger truck and a bigger trailer I would say that the Hensley was better -- but with your wheelbase already short -- I don't think that Hensley vs. Reese is going to be significant...
> 
> [snapback]57946[/snapback]​


I must respectfully disagree with ghosty on this one. Wheel base or lack of if the most often reported cause for sway related accidents. Loading is certainly another reason but it is hard to determine the weight distribution after the TT is destroyed. Anyway, the HA uses mechanical linkage to accomplish two things. First the hitch can not pivot from pressure applied to the TT side. Second the pivot point is projected forward to a point near the rear axle eliminating the lever created by the distance between standard hitch point and the axle. On a short wheelbase vehicle, the need to protect from sway is essential. Take a look at this thread and notice what kjp1969 now uses. I am biased but I have also towed many miles in many conditions. The HA is worth every penny. You might be able to get in on the Outbackers special deal from the factory. Buy it once and you will never need another hitch again.

Jared


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

I think I would have to agree with Not Yet on this one. I have a Reese setup that I love, and I still will move to a Hensley when I can afford it. The extra safety margin is worth it to me and my family.

The Reese will eliminate sway once it starts, but the Hensley just flat out prevents it from occuring in the first place. I defy you to find a Hensley owner that regrets purchasing it, or considers it overkill. Most I have talked to, both here and at campgrounds say they will never tow with anything else again.

Tim


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

I guess i didn't make my argument well enough -- i didn't mean to say that the HA was not better then the REESE (engineering wise it is 100%)..

my arugument, and I guess i tried to make it in such an around point that i failed, was that I personally don't think that the Pathfinder is up to it regardless of what hitch you add.

I think that there isn't any of us that would NOT own a HA if we could afford it --

I just think that he needs to be increasing his safety margin by increasing wheel base, increasing engine and transmission capavities, and brake size -- and not be trying to tweak safety margins by adding a great Hitch ... personally -- I think that the four runner is maxed and then some...

Thats the great thing about this forum -- you get free advice from all sides -- and thats cool -- but e just ahve to make sure that we are not mixing apples and oranges when we are arguing safety vs. capabilities.

cause you can be safe and not have the capacity and vice versa...


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## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

> Most recently we're told that IF the trailer needs service, our TV would have to be left with it in order for it to be moved.


The issue is whether or not the dealer can use their ball-equipped forklift to move the trailer around. You can either leave the TV with them, or just remove the hitch box to expose the old trailer ball coupler. The latter takes 15 mins, but you have to lift and carry that heavy hitch box to the back of your truck.

Kevin P.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Ghosty said:


> ... personally -- I think that the four runner is maxed and then some...
> [snapback]58037[/snapback]​


Geeezzzz - I step out for a bit, come back, and the fur seems to be flyin. (Seriously, I do appreciate the input from you all...just want to be sure I'm understanding.....) Can you explain just what you mean by "maxed out" here? The trailer GVWR = 6000 and the 4R tow capacity = 7000 (fyi - that's 1000 more than the Pathfinder which you reference....loved the P'Finder but didn't have the tow capacity).


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

kjp1969 said:


> The issue is whether or not the dealer can use their ball-equipped forklift to move the trailer around. You can either leave the TV with them, or just remove the hitch box to expose the old trailer ball coupler. The latter takes 15 mins, but you have to lift and carry that heavy hitch box to the back of your truck.
> 
> Kevin P.
> [snapback]58125[/snapback]​


Thanks, Kevin. THAT's what we were looking for re: the HA & service issue.







Figured there had to be another way besides the possible, but inconvenient, need to leave the TV.


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

As I mentioned in the earlier thread, I think you could especially benefit from the Hensley due to your short wheelbase. My concern would be the CCC of your 4R. You're going to be very limited with how much weight you can carry in/on the truck. This is the main limiting factor with most 1/2 ton trucks.

So you'll be fighting two gremlins at once.

1. Short wheelbase.

2. Weight carrying (not towing) capacity.

#1 can safe to say be completely solved by the Hensley. #2 Can only be resolved with another tow vehicle. However it CAN be minimized by keeping nothing but passengers in the tow vehice.

Your own towing experience will soon tell you if a change is in order. Like most of us 1/2 tonners I would expect your review to read something like:

"Well on flat ground and mild hills it does real well or at least pretty good. But when we get into the mountains it sure is working hard!"

Good luck!


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Thanks - to ALL of you.

*NOT YET *- we did read kjp1969's harrowing story. Can't say I was glad to read it .... but....well .... I was glad to read it. ...and yes, I'm waiting to find out if we can get in on the HA deal - he needed 3 OBers and looks like he only had 2 takers...timing is everything! 
*
kjp1969* - if you read this please know that, along with all others impacted by your experience, you HAVE most certainly provided info to this newbie that no dealer possibly could. My family and I thank you for posting your family's story. I hope it will not ever be removed from this site. This should be required reading for ALL TT haulers and wanna-be's, regardless of rig type or size. Thanks!

*California Jim* - you have greatly eased a troubled mind and your words will be heeded! Have also seen LOTS of trailers smaller than ours will be hitched with the HA.....so much for the dealer advice that the 25RSS is to small to warrant the cost. Can't put a price on safety! The decision was made last night - the HA it is. As for loading the 4R - when the trailer is with us, the 4R will be carrying 2 humans, usually 2 small dogs, and sometimes a canoe (and the golden fuel to get us where we're headed)....that's about it. We're long-time wilderness canoe campers (yep - coming over to the dark side)







and know well how to travel light - so there won't be TV's, scooters, etc. .... we camp to get away from all that stuff. Besides, having the TT will be more luxury than we know what to do with.

Thought we were done with the serious pendulum swinging stuff after the process of looking at & researching so many TTs & finally making the decision. That pendulum has swung again (BIG TIME) in the last few days but - thanks to all of you - we are now better educated - have been appropriately scared INTO our wits (from the comfort of our easy chairs), and have come out on the other side MUCH more educated and, ultimately, safer. What more could we ask for? Thanks to all of you who have shared your info, opinions, and stories. We'll be back soon - after all, the TT arrives in 2 weeks and I understand the mods must begin immediately


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## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

wolfwood said:


> Thanks - to ALL of you.
> 
> kjp1969[/b] - if you read this please know that, along with all others impacted by your experience, you HAVE most certainly provided info to this newbie that no dealer possibly could. My family and I thank you for posting your family's story. I hope it will not ever be removed from this site. This should be required reading for ALL TT haulers and wanna-be's, regardless of rig type or size. Thanks!


Aw shucks. I really posted that whole story as a means of sorting things out for myself- glad it was useful to others, if only to counter the sales guy who never met a TV that he didn't like!

Kevin P.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

kjp1969 said:


> Aw shucks. I really posted that whole story as a means of sorting things out for myself- glad it was useful to others, if only to counter the sales guy who never met a TV that he didn't like!
> Kevin P.
> [snapback]58194[/snapback]​


Hope it's mostly "sorted" by now and that the whole family enjoyed the '05 season. With some luck, your daughter is now happily drawing pictures of the new trailer!!!

By the way - my "real car" is a 2000 Miata. Just can't wait to tow the TT with the Runner the first time...









Got a question for you on HA insatll. Is this really a reasonable DIY project?







How much ability does one really need? Got your basic car know-how but the "real stuff" is generally sent to the "pros"....who, in this case, sound like they may be more trouble than good. Are we better off having them install and then just doing the final tweaks or is it really something that can be done in the driveway with a (better than average) standard toolbox at hand.







and, yes, we can - and sometimes even do - read (& follow) instructions.

Being able to remove mufflers, brakes, and valve heads - $100
Knowing how to use a torque wrench - $50
Knowing how to do it without chipping a newly painted nails - priceless.


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## TheMillers (Aug 8, 2005)

The nice thing about the Runner is that if you fold the seats and open the back, you can see the ball (or in your case whatever the Hensley has) and backup all by yourself. I didn't realize this until just this week. I don't think those big trucks can do that!

Bruce


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## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

> Got a question for you on HA insatll. Is this really a reasonable DIY project? How much ability does one really need? Got your basic car know-how but the "real stuff" is generally sent to the "pros"....who, in this case, sound like they may be more trouble than good.


I unpacked and installed mine in 2 hrs. in the hot Phoenix sun, and I'm a lawyer with only the meager skills of a weekend grease monkey. Seriously, the install is easy. You need a measuring tape, a drill and bits, a few sockets (deepwell and standard) and open ended wrenches and a torque wrench. You don't need any of those monster 2" wrenches that some hitches require. The Hensley instructions make it seem harder than it is, just read them over a few times and then do it- it will all be made clear in the fullness of time.









Once you see how the pieces go together, it all makes perfect sense: The strut arms keep the hitch box from pivoting left/right around the trailer's ball mount, but permit up/down movement. This forces any pivot to happen within that little voodoo 4-bar contraption, but allows you to go over bumps or up hills without binding. The spring bars are standard weight distribution pieces (even made by draw-tite, go figure), except they have these trick little screw jacks that you crank down instead of messing with chain links and snap-up brackets.

In short, a "pro" wouldn't do any better of a job installing a Hensley than you would, he'd only do it faster. Take your time, use the tape measure, and you'll be fine.

Kevin P.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

"I'm a lawyer"

Thanks, Kevin - I feel better now...you've given me the confidence that I can do this! I spend my days cleaning up the stuff left by your kind







(I'm an int'l contracts negotiator - but not a JD - and spend alot of energy keeping our GC [my boss] AWAY 'cuz he just mucks it all up)







Yep - that means I do the work and he gets paid the $$$

" Take your time, use the tape measure, and you'll be fine."

Is there a scheduled break for adult beverages?


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

BruceRiv68 said:


> if you fold the seats and open the back, you can see the ball (or in your case whatever the Hensley has) and backup all by yourself. [snapback]58259[/snapback]​


Good to know. Thanks. I'll let you know how the 4R likes her new play mate.


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## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

wolfwood said:


> "I'm a lawyer"
> 
> Thanks, Kevin - I feel better now...you've given me the confidence that I can do this!Â I spend my days cleaning up the stuff left by your kindÂ
> 
> ...


Ahem, well, I'm a lawyer who r&r'ed a couple of engines and rewired a car or two, who does his own tuneups and brake jobs on 3 different cars, but really nothing more than that. I *hope* I've got more street cred than your average law talkin' guy.

Re beer breaks: here was my installation schedule:

May 28, 2004: total the car and new outback.
June 25, 2004 take 2 week old Sequoia and drive to Phoenix, AZ (400 miles)
June 26, 2004: 8-12:00 a.m. purchase new trailer, install Hensley hitch
12:00-11:00 p.m. Tow 400 miles through 20mph cross winds (lotsa stops, palms sweating)
11:00 p.m. having safely returned home, consume alcohol, in quantity. Sleep.

So for me, the beer came after. Your mileage may vary action


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

".... r&r'ed a couple of engines and rewired a car or two, who does his own tuneups and brake jobs on 3 different cars, but really nothing more than that."

Oh - is that all? OK - my confidence level just plummetted.

And yes - experience says there are some really great folks out there disguised as lawyers. Go figure!







Honest - no offense meant







- hope none was taken.

As for beer breaks....house rule = warm beer goes in the cooler at the start of the project - no access until after the project is done. Of course - sometimes it just works out that the opposing thumbs work together and - wala - but the beer's still warm







.... other times its near frozen by the time I'm satisfied with the results. Either way, doesn't seem to make much sense to care enough to pay that much to enhance safety...and then blow it by being stupid.


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## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

Wolf,
Nah, Go For It!!!!
Remember, there's nothing you can't do, just stuff you haven't tried yet!
Heck, some of the so-called professionals are just guys who couldn't get a job doing anything else. If you care enough to spend the money for a Hensely, and ask the questions you're asking on this board, you've got the brains and the inclination to do the install. You'll finish it just fine, you'll have a good working knowledge of how it goes together (invaluable!) and you'll save a couple of hundred bucks of labor. Plus you'll impress your wife/neighbor/inlaws and can surely justify a new set of tools/golf clubs. Jeeze, if you really get stuck, give me a call and I'll talk you through it. It's really no big deal.

Kevin P.


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