# 12v Issues



## vvsarpsjr (Aug 17, 2008)

I recently bought a 2006 21RS and are using it for the first time at the Martinsville NASCAR race (dry camping). It recently pass the Virginia safety inspection for what that is worth but it does rely heavily on the battery working properly. Everything is fine when using the generator but when relying on the battery alone the lights are dim when it first transfers over after turning off the generator and they last about a minute. The battery is new. When connected to the TT all lights, brakes etc. work. Any ideas where the problems is? The battery cables are tight and non-corroded but when I follow the positive cable it goes to a small connection center that had a rubber covering. The covering appears to supposed to keep the connections covered but it was not tight and the connections are very rusted. Could this be problem area? Unfortunately do not have a voltage meter with me. Thanks.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Cant help ya much but thought id pass along something........ wish I were there!

*GO JIMMIE #48*


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## vvsarpsjr (Aug 17, 2008)

Sayonara said:


> Cant help ya much but thought id pass along something........ wish I were there!
> 
> There a few 48 fans in the family, they'll cheer him on for ya.
> 
> *GO JIMMIE #48*


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

The connection you are looking at is a auto reset thermal breaker and a dirty connection there will have an impact on the power available to the trailer. I got to say you need a volt meter to let us know what the voltage drop is. Also you have two 40 amp fuses in the fuse panel that if blown you will not get your batteries charged but you will still have power when on the generator.


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## vvsarpsjr (Aug 17, 2008)

CamperAndy said:


> The connection you are looking at is a auto reset thermal breaker and a dirty connection there will have an impact on the power available to the trailer. I got to say you need a volt meter to let us know what the voltage drop is. Also you have two 40 amp fuses in the fuse panel that if blown you will not get your batteries charged but you will still have power when on the generator.


I've checked those two 40 amp fuses and they were fine. I guess I'll need to wait until we get home but should have enough gas to use the generator the rest of the time. Thanks. I'll let you know the volt meter results.


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

How dim are your lights when you are on batteries? When you switch between shore and battery the lights will be dimmer but it should not be a big difference when your batteries are fully charged.

Thor


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## vvsarpsjr (Aug 17, 2008)

Thor said:


> How dim are your lights when you are on batteries? When you switch between shore and battery the lights will be dimmer but it should not be a big difference when your batteries are fully charged.
> 
> Thor


It looks to be about 1/2 strength then all 12v power quits in a minute or two.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

I would use a hydrometer and see how the cells and see if you are in fact getting a charge to them. Since you light work OK on a Generator then I know the converter is working. A hydrometer will give you a better picture of the state of the battery. Sounds to me like a bad cell, and even a new battery can get a bad cell.
good luck


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## Airboss (Jul 14, 2007)

I agree that a dead cell in a battery may be the cause. If you bought the TT new it probably came with one of the cheapie Interstate dual purpose (Marine and Deep Cycle) batteries that most of us have had problems with. I had two, run in parallel, and once one gave up the ghost it drug the other one down with it.

Since it seems you are interested in dry camping, I would suggest ditching the 12v batteries for two 6v in series. A true deep cycle battery (such as the Trojan T-105s) are well worth the money in the long run. Otherwise, buy 2 12v and run them parallel for longer lasting power.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

He indicated the battery is new, now that does not mean it is not bad but I would just check the electrolyte levels and then look else where.


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## Airboss (Jul 14, 2007)

CamperAndy said:


> He indicated the battery is new, now that does not mean it is not bad but I would just check the electrolyte levels and then look else where.


Indeed, but that is like saying the new tires I bought aren't 4 years old.

I suspect the batteries are the problem. Otherwise, a full inspection of the electrical system is in order.


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## vvsarpsjr (Aug 17, 2008)

Thanks all for the advice. I will check the battery when I get home too but the battery is only a week old, the Outback was bought used. Hey Sayonara, how about that 48!


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

vvsarpsjr said:


> Hey Sayonara, how about that 48!


Oh, ya! I thought it might be a good showdown between him and Jr in the end but Jr just couldnt hang in there.....
Im getting cautiously optimistic of a 3-peat!!
How was it being there?


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## vvsarpsjr (Aug 17, 2008)

Sayonara said:


> Hey Sayonara, how about that 48!


Oh, ya! I thought it might be a good showdown between him and Jr in the end but Jr just couldnt hang in there.....
Im getting cautiously optimistic of a 3-peat!!
How was it being there?
[/quote]

We come twice a year, always a great time if you ever want to make the trip. Short track racing at its best especially since they changed Bristol, always some beating and banging going on somewhere. I thought it was going to be more of a battle with Jr too since he was able to pass the 99 but in the end just did'nt have enough car.


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## jozway (Jan 28, 2008)

Sayonara said:


> Hey Sayonara, how about that 48!


Oh, ya! I thought it might be a good showdown between him and Jr in the end but Jr just couldnt hang in there.....
Im getting cautiously optimistic of a 3-peat!!
How was it being there?
[/quote]

It sure is looking like he can do it! But I still got my fingers crossed for Cousin Carl


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## vvsarpsjr (Aug 17, 2008)

Got home and starting looking at the voltages. Battery voltage 12.45. Got no significant voltage reading when at the screw/contact for the positive corroded/rusted auto reset thermal breaker that CamperAndy told me it was. I decided to try and take it off to clean it and it just crumbled and broke into many pieces. This was probably the problem site but I won't find out for sure until I can get another auto reset thermal breaker.


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

vvsarpsjr said:


> Got home and starting looking at the voltages. Battery voltage 12.45. Got no significant voltage reading when at the screw/contact for the positive corroded/rusted auto reset thermal breaker that CamperAndy told me it was. I decided to try and take it off to clean it and it just crumbled and broke into many pieces. This was probably the problem site but I won't find out for sure until I can get another auto reset thermal breaker.


Any auto parts store will have these for about 5 bucks.
On a 21RS it will be a 40 amp.
I actually suggest getting one for a spare too as i read of a few failures on here lately.


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## vvsarpsjr (Aug 17, 2008)

Katrina said:


> Got home and starting looking at the voltages. Battery voltage 12.45. Got no significant voltage reading when at the screw/contact for the positive corroded/rusted auto reset thermal breaker that CamperAndy told me it was. I decided to try and take it off to clean it and it just crumbled and broke into many pieces. This was probably the problem site but I won't find out for sure until I can get another auto reset thermal breaker.


Any auto parts store will have these for about 5 bucks.
On a 21RS it will be a 40 amp.
I actually suggest getting one for a spare too as i read of a few failures on here lately.
[/quote]

Thanks a lot for the info, I was wonder where and what type to get. I'll give it a try this week.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

NAPA has a good selection of them and at a good price. Just do not over tighten the lug when you put the new one in or you can easily twist the insides of the breaker.


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## W4DRR (May 17, 2005)

Let me throw out a stupid question...
What is the real purpose of the thermal breaker anyway, since both sides of the battery are already fused at the power converter panel? The fuse(s) will blow long before the thermal breaker reacts. Is there some regulation or legal requirment that it be there? Just wonderin'.

Bob

On edit:
Now that I think about it, I have answered my own question. The thermal breaker protects against a short that could develop _between_ the battery and the aforementioned fuses. DUH!


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

W4DRR said:


> Let me throw out a stupid question...
> What is the real purpose of the thermal breaker anyway, since both sides of the battery are already fused at the power converter panel? The fuse(s) will blow long before the thermal breaker reacts. Is there some regulation or legal requirment that it be there? Just wonderin'.
> 
> Bob
> ...


The breaker is the only thing protecting the run of wire from the battery to the converter.
If you were to have a short occur between this wire and the frame up in the underbelly somewhere (A very real possibility on any trailer) you would be very glad that breaker is there.

As far as the 40 amp fuses in the converter, It is my understanding that these will only blow if a reverse polarity condition occurs. I've never studied a schematic to see why that is though.

Oh, and you can get a better quality breaker that is also a manual reset type, but it's gonna cost you.
40 amp breaker


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

vvsarpsjr said:


> I recently bought a 2006 21RS and are using it for the first time at the Martinsville NASCAR race (dry camping). It recently pass the Virginia safety inspection for what that is worth but it does rely heavily on the battery working properly. Everything is fine when using the generator but when relying on the battery alone the lights are dim when it first transfers over after turning off the generator and they last about a minute. The battery is new. When connected to the TT all lights, brakes etc. work. Any ideas where the problems is? The battery cables are tight and non-corroded but when I follow the positive cable it goes to a small connection center that had a rubber covering. The covering appears to supposed to keep the connections covered but it was not tight and the connections are very rusted. Could this be problem area? Unfortunately do not have a voltage meter with me. Thanks.


A month or so ago I had a problem with my trailer where I was only getting about 6 volts in the trailer even though the batteries were fine. I checked the connections and measured the voltage and still couldn't figure out what was going on. Finally I cleaned all of the battery connections and reconnected it and the problem went away. The connections looked okay before I cleaned them but I guess there was enough there to cause a problem. Even though your connections may look okay it can't hurt to clean them. Good luck.


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## vvsarpsjr (Aug 17, 2008)

MJRey said:


> I recently bought a 2006 21RS and are using it for the first time at the Martinsville NASCAR race (dry camping). It recently pass the Virginia safety inspection for what that is worth but it does rely heavily on the battery working properly. Everything is fine when using the generator but when relying on the battery alone the lights are dim when it first transfers over after turning off the generator and they last about a minute. The battery is new. When connected to the TT all lights, brakes etc. work. Any ideas where the problems is? The battery cables are tight and non-corroded but when I follow the positive cable it goes to a small connection center that had a rubber covering. The covering appears to supposed to keep the connections covered but it was not tight and the connections are very rusted. Could this be problem area? Unfortunately do not have a voltage meter with me. Thanks.


A month or so ago I had a problem with my trailer where I was only getting about 6 volts in the trailer even though the batteries were fine. I checked the connections and measured the voltage and still couldn't figure out what was going on. Finally I cleaned all of the battery connections and reconnected it and the problem went away. The connections looked okay before I cleaned them but I guess there was enough there to cause a problem. Even though your connections may look okay it can't hurt to clean them. Good luck.
[/quote]

I went to a couple of local auto parts for the thermal breaker. They had an identical appearing one but I wanted to find one that could handle the outdoor elements better. Ended up ordering a type 3 manual reset thermal breaker with plastic housing and the rubber boot. I have cleaned the connections already just in case. When the thermal breaker arrives, I'll put it in and let y'all know if it works. Thanks.


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

CamperAndy said:


> The connection you are looking at is a auto reset thermal breaker and a dirty connection there will have an impact on the power available to the trailer. I got to say you need a volt meter to let us know what the voltage drop is. Also you have two 40 amp fuses in the fuse panel that if blown you will not get your batteries charged but you will still have power when on the generator.


Dumb Question (from a newbie) - is the battery supposed to be disconnected while in storage? Does the outback have a disconnect switch? I would think (and pretty sure I have read) that there are items in the trailer that drain on the battery?
Do most outbackers have covers to protect the terminals from accidentally being shorted by something falling on them? - I guess that would be another good reason for the thermal protection.

I know that the battery is used for dry camping & we are also purchasing a generator - but what exactly does it power and for approximately how long?

Thanks!


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

rdvholtwood said:


> The connection you are looking at is a auto reset thermal breaker and a dirty connection there will have an impact on the power available to the trailer. I got to say you need a volt meter to let us know what the voltage drop is. Also you have two 40 amp fuses in the fuse panel that if blown you will not get your batteries charged but you will still have power when on the generator.


Dumb Question (from a newbie) - is the battery supposed to be disconnected while in storage? Does the outback have a disconnect switch? I would think (and pretty sure I have read) that there are items in the trailer that drain on the battery?
Do most outbackers have covers to protect the terminals from accidentally being shorted by something falling on them? - I guess that would be another good reason for the thermal protection.

I know that the battery is used for dry camping & we are also purchasing a generator - but what exactly does it power and for approximately how long?

Thanks!
[/quote]

You asked some good questions but it depends so much on how you plan on using the trailer on how you use and set up your batteries.

I have a disconnect bu only use it when doing maintenance on the system. I have 2 - 6 volt batteries because I dry camp a lot and they have better staying power. As for what uses 12 vdc, almost everything but some items also require 120 ac to operate.

Read The 12 volt side of life, this will help you understand the DC system on the trailer.


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks CamperAndy -

I found the information helpful - however - I am still curious as to whether your battery(s) are covered or in a compartment? Did your 2-6V deep cycles fit on the battery holder on your trailer or did you need to fabricate a new holder.

Also, when you mentioned keeping your trailer hooked up for extended periods of time - is that inclusive of a normal and/or holdiday weekend? or a week long camping trip?

I have also noted that our '09 has (or per the brochure) has a 55 amp converter that, along with being connected to the TV, will charge the batterie(s). I am presuming the battery that comes with the outback is a standard deep cycle battery (hopefully) with a low amp/hour rating. Although I am not sure how much dry camping we will do, I guess for now I will see how it works out with the battery supplied. I read the section on charging and it was vague with regard to usage. We plan to do a lot of camping with AC power available. So I am wondering if and when we really need to use the battery if it will be OK or not from excessive charging?

Again, as always, thanks for your input.

As a newbie, I am learning a lot!


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

rdvholtwood said:


> Thanks CamperAndy -
> 
> I found the information helpful - however - I am still curious as to whether your battery(s) are covered or in a compartment? Did your 2-6V deep cycles fit on the battery holder on your trailer or did you need to fabricate a new holder.
> 
> ...


 I added 2 6volt golf cart batteries to the OB and they fit into the holder. The 6v batteries are 2.5 inches taller than the stock 12 deep cycle. http://www.outbackers.com/forums/index.php...si&img=8511 . Some of us leave the OB plugged in at home for several weeks at a time, this is why we added a battery disconnect. http://www.outbackers.com/forums/index.php...si&img=7062 . James


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

rdvholtwood I will see if I can answer your questions.

My 6 vdc batteries have the same foot print as a group 24 12 vdc battery. This is the typical battery type and size supplied with new trailers unless you request something else. I use a Marine/RV battery box to hold the batteries. Nothing special really.

If I am not dry camping my trailer is plugged in 24/7 from when I dewinterize to when I winterize. I trust the 3 stage converter that is built into the trailer and it has served me well so far. Just check the battery electrolyte level a few times a year and you will be fine.


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## vvsarpsjr (Aug 17, 2008)

Got the reset thermal breaker in and replaced it today. I bought a 40amp one with plastic housing and a manual reset button. The 12v system works fine now; thanks for y'alls help.


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## daves700 (Jun 12, 2006)

[quote name='vvsarpsjr' date='Nov 1 2008, 08:30 PM' post='319248']
Got the reset thermal breaker in and replaced it today. I bought a 40amp one with plastic housing and a manual reset button. The 12v system works fine now; thanks for y'alls help.
[/quot

I am glad you were able to get it fixed without any more problems ...


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Great to see things are working for you!


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## swanny (Oct 31, 2007)

glad it's all working for ya. one more over looked thing is the ground wire. can't tell you how many times i found the ground wire fastened to a painted surface. not good.

something i learned from my son who works for a battery backup service. NEVER over tighten the lead connections!!! tighter is NOT better. follow the tightening specs.

happy motoring


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