# Wondering If The Dealer Gave Me The Correct Size Wdhitch For My Trailer?



## CamperKev (Feb 20, 2012)

I picked up our new Outback a few weeks ago and the dealer install a Equal-i-zer hitch for us. I just Happened to notice today the sticker on the WD bar and it has a max tongue weight of 1000lbs? My camper has a GVWR of 8200lbs and the dry hitch weight is 850lbs. Shouldn't I have gotten the 1200lb bars??







Need some input please.. Thanks, Kevin


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

I would have preferred the 1200 weight bars for what you have as the 1000 pound bars will be 100% loaded when you get the trailer full and set to travel. There is only about a $20.00 difference in price of the 2 hitches so sure go ahead and ask them to replace it.


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## duggy (Mar 17, 2010)

I see you have an F 150 truck. Knowing that, I agree with Andy that you would probably be better off with 1200# bars. If your truck was a 3/4 ton or more, I think you'd be fine with the 1000# bars, as the rear suspension on the heavier trucks should take a larger share of the tongue weight.


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## KTMRacer (Jun 28, 2010)

CamperKev said:


> I picked up our new Outback a few weeks ago and the dealer install a Equal-i-zer hitch for us. I just Happened to notice today the sticker on the WD bar and it has a max tongue weight of 1000lbs? My camper has a GVWR of 8200lbs and the dry hitch weight is 850lbs. Shouldn't I have gotten the 1200lb bars??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Probably. your real starting dry tongue weight is likely closer to 1000 lbs. to the 850 add 60lbs for propane and the weight of battery(s) at 75lbs or so each.

Can you get the truck front end back down close to the unloaded height?? If so, your likely ok, If you can't get the truck front height to within 1/2" of unloaded, you may need heavier bars.


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

duggy said:


> I see you have an F 150 truck. Knowing that, I agree with Andy that you would probably be better off with 1200# bars. If your truck was a 3/4 ton or more, I think you'd be fine with the 1000# bars, as the rear suspension on the heavier trucks should take a larger share of the tongue weight.


X2


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

Do the 1000 and 1200 lb bars use the same hitch head or do you need to swap that out too?


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## CamperKev (Feb 20, 2012)

thefulminator said:


> Do the 1000 and 1200 lb bars use the same hitch head or do you need to swap that out too?


 That is a good question! ! I will find out..


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## KTMRacer (Jun 28, 2010)

Before getting other bars, I'd suggest you beg, borrow, or buy a sherline tongue scale, or use a bathroom scale setup to measure your actual tongue weight. then you can buy a set of bars matched to your actual tongue weight.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

CamperAndy said:


> I would have preferred the 1200 weight bars for what you have as the 1000 pound bars will be 100% loaded when you get the trailer full and set to travel. There is only about a $20.00 difference in price of the 2 hitches so sure go ahead and ask them to replace it.


I agree with Andy. I have a 2007 29BHS, which is almost the same trailer as yours. I have the 1200# bars and I tow with a 3/4-ton pickup. You especially need the 1200# bars with a 1/2-ton truck. Your truck may be capable of "pulling" more weight than your trailer, but a 1/2-ton does not "handle" that much weight very well.

Soooo . . . I suggest you look up your truck's GVWR, then add up the truck's curb weight, the actual (not dry) tongue weight (of your trailer), the weight of your gear and passengers in your truck - and I predict you will be very close, if not over the truck's capacity to safely and reliably carry that much weight on all four axles - which is what the GVWR is about. But this is another topic - one that comes up here frequently.

Just my opinion.

Mike


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## CamperKev (Feb 20, 2012)

Scoutr2 said:


> I would have preferred the 1200 weight bars for what you have as the 1000 pound bars will be 100% loaded when you get the trailer full and set to travel. There is only about a $20.00 difference in price of the 2 hitches so sure go ahead and ask them to replace it.


I agree with Andy. I have a 2007 29BHS, which is almost the same trailer as yours. I have the 1200# bars and I tow with a 3/4-ton pickup. You especially need the 1200# bars with a 1/2-ton truck. Your truck may be capable of "pulling" more weight than your trailer, but a 1/2-ton does not "handle" that much weight very well.

Soooo . . . I suggest you look up your truck's GVWR, then add up the truck's curb weight, the actual (not dry) tongue weight (of your trailer), the weight of your gear and passengers in your truck - and I predict you will be very close, if not over the truck's capacity to safely and reliably carry that much weight on all four axles - which is what the GVWR is about. But this is another topic - one that comes up here frequently.

Just my opinion.

Mike
[/quote] Mike, Didn't we just have this conversation in another thread? I know i am close to my max payload but not over. My GVWR is 7700#'s and my truck with me in it and a full tank of fuel weighs 6270#'s. Figuring 13% of my trailers GVWR(8200#) for tongue weight 1066#'s plus the wife and kids(300#'s) = a total of 7636#'s for GVWR which is close but still under. Soooo . . . For a added cushion i have been told once the WDH is properly setup it will transfer(distribute) 20-25% of the tongue weight back on the trailer axles.The only thing i will be putting in the bed of my truck is my little Weber Q grill and a few fishing poles and tackle box. My truck also has a GCWR of 17,100#'s and rear axle rating of 4050#'s.I am also in the 70% range of my tow capacity. I know its not a 3/4 ton or a 1 ton diesel but it surely is not a half ton from years past.

Kevin


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## duggy (Mar 17, 2010)

CamperKev said:


> For a added cushion i have been told once the WDH is properly setup it will transfer(distribute) 20-25% of the tongue weight back on the trailer axles.
> 
> Kevin


I'll be interested to see what kind of replies this statement generates. My basic understanding of physics says some weight should be transferred back to the trailer axles, but I wouldn't think a lot. The only way to know for sure, and I'm sure someone has checked, would be to weigh all the TV and trailer axles, with and without the WD bars hooked up.


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## wolverine (Mar 5, 2009)

A WD hitch is meant to transfer weight off the truck's rear axle to the front axle. I suppose it may transfer some back to the trailer, but I do not think it would be much. I think the trailer is too heavy for your 1/2 ton as you do not have any payload cushion to fall back on. You will be over your payload in a few years as your kids get bigger. You can add air bags, but you will still be over the sticker weight. I would not trade my 1500HD's suspension (2700 lb payload) for your 1/2 ton, but I would like to try that Ecoboost.


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

A WD hitch makes the connection between the tow vehicle and trailer stiffer in the up/down direction. It basically makes the entire assembly into a single beam that is hinged in the middle so it can swing side to side. If you had a heavy duty enough WD setup, you could remove the rear wheels on the tow vehicle and the trailer tongue would still be suspended off of the ground. In that scenario, load would be shifted to both the tow vehicle front axle and the trailer axle since the tow vehicle rear axle would no longer be there to support weight. The amount of load shifted to those axles would be a function of the distance from the hitch ball to the particular axle.


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## CamperKev (Feb 20, 2012)

wolverine said:


> A WD hitch is meant to transfer weight off the truck's rear axle to the front axle. I suppose it may transfer some back to the trailer, but I do not think it would be much. I think the trailer is too heavy for your 1/2 ton as you do not have any payload cushion to fall back on. You will be over your payload in a few years as your kids get bigger. You can add air bags, but you will still be over the sticker weight. I would not trade my 1500HD's suspension (2700 lb payload) for your 1/2 ton, but I would like to try that Ecoboost.


The yellow sticker on your door says you have 2700lbs for payload or is that before options????


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## wolverine (Mar 5, 2009)

CamperKev said:


> A WD hitch is meant to transfer weight off the truck's rear axle to the front axle. I suppose it may transfer some back to the trailer, but I do not think it would be much. I think the trailer is too heavy for your 1/2 ton as you do not have any payload cushion to fall back on. You will be over your payload in a few years as your kids get bigger. You can add air bags, but you will still be over the sticker weight. I would not trade my 1500HD's suspension (2700 lb payload) for your 1/2 ton, but I would like to try that Ecoboost.


The yellow sticker on your door says you have 2700lbs for payload or is that before options????
[/quote]

To be exact, the sticker say's 2670 lbs for payload. A Chevy 1500HD crew cab is actually a lighter duty 3/4 ton truck (about 550 lbs less payload than a 2500HD). I think Ford is offering a heavy duty payload package on a truck like yours now.


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## CW2Jason (Nov 27, 2011)

CamperKev said:


> I picked up our new Outback a few weeks ago and the dealer install a Equal-i-zer hitch for us. I just Happened to notice today the sticker on the WD bar and it has a max tongue weight of 1000lbs? My camper has a GVWR of 8200lbs and the dry hitch weight is 850lbs. Shouldn't I have gotten the 1200lb bars??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lets get back to the original question. To much bar is just as ineffective as to little. The rule of thumb is 10% to 15% of the trailer weight should be on the hitch. at max trailer weight 8200# that = 820#-1230# your dealer choice puts you at approx 13%. The better choice would be the 1200# bars as they would encompass the range without going to far over.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

wolverine said:


> A WD hitch is meant to transfer weight off the truck's rear axle to the front axle. I suppose it may transfer some back to the trailer, but I do not think it would be much. I think the trailer is too heavy for your 1/2 ton as you do not have any payload cushion to fall back on. You will be over your payload in a few years as your kids get bigger. You can add air bags, but you will still be over the sticker weight. I would not trade my 1500HD's suspension (2700 lb payload) for your 1/2 ton, but I would like to try that Ecoboost.


Agree 100%. If you go to Equal-i-zer's website, they explain the mechanics of a WD hitch. Or you can read here: How Stuff Works - Weight Distributing Hitches.

In a nutshell - WD hitches are designed to distribute some of your tongue weight from the rear axle of the TV to the front axle, "distributing" the tongue weight evenly over both the front and rear axles, which improves the TV's ability for steering, braking, and handling the load. SOME, but very little, of that tongue weight gets distributed back to the trailer's axles, but it will never exceed that 10%-15% rule of thumb - just because the trailer designers placed the axles in just the right spot to allow 10% to 15% of the trailer's weight to rest on the ball. Anything less, and the hitch can try to hop off the ball from bouncing and vibrations.

Again - and I cannot stress this enough - no matter WHAT WD hitch you get, you are near, or over your truck's GVWR. Insurance companies LIVE to find ways to avoid paying out the money we all pay in, and if they even SNIFF the fact that you overloaded your truck - and an accident occurs - you will be on your own. Not trying to scare you, because money is not why I respond to these posts. I respond because I truly care about the safety of our Outbacker's community, and their families. I would feel very bad if I failed to throw a mild warning in someone's direction, then later learned of a catastrophic accident.

I know that not everyone can just go out and buy a new, expensive truck, based on the rantings and ramblings of folks like me. So just be careful, keep your speed down, and watch other people like a hawk! Most folks have not a clue the effort and concentration it takes to safely tow a big trailer and they drive like you can stop on a dime!

Hope I have helped in some way, and understand that this is only my (experienced) opinion. I started out towing our 30' trailer with a 1/2-ton TV. The move to a 3/4-ton truck was the best thing I did and made all the difference in the world!

Mike


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## KTMRacer (Jun 28, 2010)

duggy said:


> For a added cushion i have been told once the WDH is properly setup it will transfer(distribute) 20-25% of the tongue weight back on the trailer axles.
> 
> Kevin


I'll be interested to see what kind of replies this statement generates. My basic understanding of physics says some weight should be transferred back to the trailer axles, but I wouldn't think a lot. The only way to know for sure, and I'm sure someone has checked, would be to weigh all the TV and trailer axles, with and without the WD bars hooked up.
[/quote]

yes, a wd hitch will transfer some of the TV rear axle load to the the trailer axles. (Note I said TV axle load, not TV tongue weight). How much is a mechanical engineering statics problem. Easily solved if one knows the TV wheelbase, Tongue to trailer axle distance, hitch to TV rear axle distance and WD bar tension, and WD bar length. Measuring the bar tension is the hard part. Usually easier to just go to a scale and measure axles loads with and w/o WD hitch hooked up. I've done a few measurements on various trailers and it has varied between 10% and a high of 25%, usually closer to 10-15%. But then a WD hitch adds weight to the TV as well, those things aren't lightweight. Shank, head and bars probably add 75-100lbs to the TV weight, then you move 200lbs or so to the trailer rear axles for a net TV reduction of 100lbs or so of TV weight.

Also remember that a WD hitch does NOT change trailer tongue weight. The TV reciever and hitch must be capable of handling the full tongue weight regardless of hitch type. the higher tongue weight limit with a WD hitch isn't because the WD hitch reduces tongue weight it it because it changes dramatically the forces on the reciever.


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## CamperKev (Feb 20, 2012)

I suppose this weekend I will load the camper with everything we would bring on a trip, fuel up the truck, hook up and hit the local Cat scale and see what my real #'s are. Then decide what to do....


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## CW2Jason (Nov 27, 2011)

CamperKev said:


> I suppose this weekend I will load the camper with everything we would bring on a trip, fuel up the truck, hook up and hit the local Cat scale and see what my real #'s are. Then decide what to do....


Depending on your gear ratio that vehicle is capable of towing 11,200# with a GCWR of 17,100#

here is the link

http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/11FLMRVTT_F150nov18.pdf


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## KTMRacer (Jun 28, 2010)

CamperKev said:


> I suppose this weekend I will load the camper with everything we would bring on a trip, fuel up the truck, hook up and hit the local Cat scale and see what my real #'s are. Then decide what to do....


good idea. And while your going through the effort make the following measurements to see how close (or far) you are on the WD setup.

1) without the trailer hooked up, measure from the ground to a reference point on the front fender wheel arch, in line with the wheel centerline.
2) repeat with the trailer and WD hooked up.

Ideally (1) and (2) should be the same height, or with the trailer hooked up the measurement should be no more than about 1/2" higher. In most cases, and I think Ford recomends never having the loaded height lower than unloaded at the front end. If it is more than 1/2" or so higher loaded you either need to increase spring bar tension or go with stiffer bars.

If you repeat the measurements at the TV rear axle, you will likely see more drop at the rear, that's ok, you just never want the rear to rise when loaded.


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## CamperKev (Feb 20, 2012)

CW2Jason said:


> I suppose this weekend I will load the camper with everything we would bring on a trip, fuel up the truck, hook up and hit the local Cat scale and see what my real #'s are. Then decide what to do....


Depending on your gear ratio that vehicle is capable of towing 11,200# with a GCWR of 17,100#

here is the link

http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/11FLMRVTT_F150nov18.pdf
[/quote]I have the max tow pkg that comes with 3.73 gears and 11,200# tow capacity. My payload capacity is what's in question..


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## CamperKev (Feb 20, 2012)

KTMRacer said:


> I suppose this weekend I will load the camper with everything we would bring on a trip, fuel up the truck, hook up and hit the local Cat scale and see what my real #'s are. Then decide what to do....


good idea. And while your going through the effort make the following measurements to see how close (or far) you are on the WD setup.

1) without the trailer hooked up, measure from the ground to a reference point on the front fender wheel arch, in line with the wheel centerline.
2) repeat with the trailer and WD hooked up.

Ideally (1) and (2) should be the same height, or with the trailer hooked up the measurement should be no more than about 1/2" higher. In most cases, and I think Ford recomends never having the loaded height lower than unloaded at the front end. If it is more than 1/2" or so higher loaded you either need to increase spring bar tension or go with stiffer bars.

If you repeat the measurements at the TV rear axle, you will likely see more drop at the rear, that's ok, you just never want the rear to rise when loaded.
[/quote]I did take the measurements when i got home from the dealer. The front end raised less than 1/2" and the rear dropped about 1 1/2"...Here is a pic from the dealer before we left.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

CW2Jason said:


> I suppose this weekend I will load the camper with everything we would bring on a trip, fuel up the truck, hook up and hit the local Cat scale and see what my real #'s are. Then decide what to do....


Depending on your gear ratio that vehicle is capable of towing 11,200# with a GCWR of 17,100#

here is the link

http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/11FLMRVTT_F150nov18.pdf
[/quote]

We know that the truck is designed to tow more weight than this trailer weighs. But the number I am concerned with is the cargo capacity (GVWR) of the truck, itself. All the advertising you see on TV and in print ads only talks about the tow rating - which has nothing to do with the GVWR. This is where most folks get confused - and RV dealers throw that tow rating out there and use it as a selling point. But the ability to pull weight and the ability to CARRY weight are two different things.

Take a look at the last number at the bottom of page 3 (from your link). It says, "Max tongue load = 1130#."

Additionally, take a look at the note at the bottom of page 2:

Notes: 
• Trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight should be 10-15% (15-25% for 5th-wheel towing) of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Label.

Mike


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

CamperKev said:


> I suppose this weekend I will load the camper with everything we would bring on a trip, fuel up the truck, hook up and hit the local Cat scale and see what my real #'s are. Then decide what to do....


good idea. And while your going through the effort make the following measurements to see how close (or far) you are on the WD setup.

1) without the trailer hooked up, measure from the ground to a reference point on the front fender wheel arch, in line with the wheel centerline.
2) repeat with the trailer and WD hooked up.

Ideally (1) and (2) should be the same height, or with the trailer hooked up the measurement should be no more than about 1/2" higher. In most cases, and I think Ford recomends never having the loaded height lower than unloaded at the front end. If it is more than 1/2" or so higher loaded you either need to increase spring bar tension or go with stiffer bars.

If you repeat the measurements at the TV rear axle, you will likely see more drop at the rear, that's ok, you just never want the rear to rise when loaded.
[/quote]I did take the measurements when i got home from the dealer. The front end raised less than 1/2" and the rear dropped about 1 1/2"...Here is a pic from the dealer before we left.








[/quote]

Yup! You need to re-adjust that hitch. From your measurements and the photo, it looks to me like lowering the shank 1 inch (one hole up) from the current position will help a great deal. But then you may need to raise the L-Brackets one notch or tilt the hitch head forward (maybe one washer removed) to get the tension corrected on you WD bars. Lowering the hitch head will put more stress on the bars if all else stays the same.

Mike


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## CW2Jason (Nov 27, 2011)

Scoutr2 said:


> I suppose this weekend I will load the camper with everything we would bring on a trip, fuel up the truck, hook up and hit the local Cat scale and see what my real #'s are. Then decide what to do....


Depending on your gear ratio that vehicle is capable of towing 11,200# with a GCWR of 17,100#

here is the link

http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/11FLMRVTT_F150nov18.pdf
[/quote]

We know that the truck is designed to tow more weight than this trailer weighs. But the number I am concerned with is the cargo capacity (GVWR) of the truck, itself. All the advertising you see on TV and in print ads only talks about the tow rating - which has nothing to do with the GVWR. This is where most folks get confused - and RV dealers throw that tow rating out there and use it as a selling point. But the ability to pull weight and the ability to CARRY weight are two different things.

Take a look at the last number at the bottom of page 3 (from your link). It says, "Max tongue load = 1130#."

Additionally, take a look at the note at the bottom of page 2:

Notes: 
• Trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight should be 10-15% (15-25% for 5th-wheel towing) of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Label.

Mike
[/quote]

Thank you for the clarification, I was focused on the combined weight and forgot about the TV GAWR and GVWR. This is why I enjoy these forums, I always learn something.


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## CamperKev (Feb 20, 2012)

Scoutr2 said:


> I suppose this weekend I will load the camper with everything we would bring on a trip, fuel up the truck, hook up and hit the local Cat scale and see what my real #'s are. Then decide what to do....


good idea. And while your going through the effort make the following measurements to see how close (or far) you are on the WD setup.

1) without the trailer hooked up, measure from the ground to a reference point on the front fender wheel arch, in line with the wheel centerline.
2) repeat with the trailer and WD hooked up.

Ideally (1) and (2) should be the same height, or with the trailer hooked up the measurement should be no more than about 1/2" higher. In most cases, and I think Ford recomends never having the loaded height lower than unloaded at the front end. If it is more than 1/2" or so higher loaded you either need to increase spring bar tension or go with stiffer bars.

If you repeat the measurements at the TV rear axle, you will likely see more drop at the rear, that's ok, you just never want the rear to rise when loaded.
[/quote]I did take the measurements when i got home from the dealer. The front end raised less than 1/2" and the rear dropped about 1 1/2"...Here is a pic from the dealer before we left.








[/quote]

Yup! You need to re-adjust that hitch. From your measurements and the photo, it looks to me like lowering the shank 1 inch (one hole up) from the current position will help a great deal. But then you may need to raise the L-Brackets one notch or tilt the hitch head forward (maybe one washer removed) to get the tension corrected on you WD bars. Lowering the hitch head will put more stress on the bars if all else stays the same.

Mike
[/quote]Mike, I'm confused?? KTMRacer says "ideally" the front end should be the same height loaded as unloaded but no more than 1/2" higher?? My front end is less than 1/2" and the rear is down 1 1/2".. If i did the adjustments you recommend what kind of measurements would i be looking to achieve?? I am within the measurements that KTMRacer mentioned? What are you seeing from my photo that i am not seeing?
I do appreciate your time and the help you are offering me Mike since i really do not have to much experience on this matter.


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## KTMRacer (Jun 28, 2010)

CamperKev said:


> I suppose this weekend I will load the camper with everything we would bring on a trip, fuel up the truck, hook up and hit the local Cat scale and see what my real #'s are. Then decide what to do....


good idea. And while your going through the effort make the following measurements to see how close (or far) you are on the WD setup.

1) without the trailer hooked up, measure from the ground to a reference point on the front fender wheel arch, in line with the wheel centerline.
2) repeat with the trailer and WD hooked up.

Ideally (1) and (2) should be the same height, or with the trailer hooked up the measurement should be no more than about 1/2" higher. In most cases, and I think Ford recomends never having the loaded height lower than unloaded at the front end. If it is more than 1/2" or so higher loaded you either need to increase spring bar tension or go with stiffer bars.

If you repeat the measurements at the TV rear axle, you will likely see more drop at the rear, that's ok, you just never want the rear to rise when loaded.
[/quote]I did take the measurements when i got home from the dealer. The front end raised less than 1/2" and the rear dropped about 1 1/2"...Here is a pic from the dealer before we left.








[/quote]

Yup! You need to re-adjust that hitch. From your measurements and the photo, it looks to me like lowering the shank 1 inch (one hole up) from the current position will help a great deal. But then you may need to raise the L-Brackets one notch or tilt the hitch head forward (maybe one washer removed) to get the tension corrected on you WD bars. Lowering the hitch head will put more stress on the bars if all else stays the same.

Mike
[/quote]Mike, I'm confused?? KTMRacer says "ideally" the front end should be the same height loaded as unloaded but no more than 1/2" higher?? My front end is less than 1/2" and the rear is down 1 1/2".. If i did the adjustments you recommend what kind of measurements would i be looking to achieve?? I am within the measurements that KTMRacer mentioned? What are you seeing from my photo that i am not seeing?
I do appreciate your time and the help you are offering me Mike since i really do not have to much experience on this matter.








[/quote]

First, I'd like to complement you on trying to really understand trailer setup. I wish everyone was as concerned and careful as you. Makes for a much safer trip once you've got it dialed in.

Second, unfortunetly, I seldom see dealers do a good job of WD hitch setup, which IMHO is a real diservice to customers. They should do a better setup and then explain in detail how a WD hitch works and how to adjust it. But then, I think lots of them don't even really know how they work! Yours actually looks better than many I've seen, and your measurements are at least in the ballpark of where they should be.!

Mike can chime in, but Looking at your picture, it looks like the trailer is slightly "nose up" rather than "nose down". that is the trailer should either be level or with one that long, the tongue down slightly. makes it more stable and less likely to drag the rear on bumps. With the tow vehicle front up 1/2" and the back down 1.5" your in pretty good shape for distribution. Not quite where I would target, but then there is lots of controversy on how close the front/rear should be to unloaded conditions, in fact even the mfg often have differing suggestions. IIRC GM often say bring the front back to unloaded, Ford often says either up 1/2" or split the difference between loaded and unloaded. Most mfg say set the front, don't worry about the rear. I suspect that since they are talking pickups, the rear usually has plenty of stiffness and won't drop to much.

My preference (and that's all it is) if I had your truck and setup, would be to try to crank in some more tension and bring the truck front down a little more, that will also raise the rear, and make the "nose up" worse, so you'll need to drop the head. The reason I'd try to drop the front more on a 1/2 ton is to keep the truck front axle load the same as unloaded. I've helped set up several friends 1/2 tons and expeditions. The initial problem was they thought they had sway, front end wandered easily. The real problem was the front was way high, unloading the front, changing front camber and changing the truck from understeer to oversteer. The front end was to light. In both cases once we got the front back down to unloaded or with 1/4" the change in handling was dramatic.

Here is a couple of links to info on WD hitch setup on RV net. Great reading for insomniacs!!

how to set up a hitch

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/17730894.cfm

how WD works

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/14265335.cfm

Hope this helps.


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## love2camp (Mar 23, 2012)

I think what Mike is saying is that you look to be bordering on nose high with the trailer. Ideally level is correct, but nose slightly down is better than nose up. Need to get on flat ground and measure to be sure.

That pic at the dealer was with trailer unloaded. Once you load your gear in there it will increase TW and push the back down further than 1 1/2" + raise the front of the truck. More WD will be needed to get things back correct, but you'll probably still be bordering on nose high trailer. Lower the head one hole and readjust head angle + WD bars and see what the result is.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

KTMRacer said:


> I suppose this weekend I will load the camper with everything we would bring on a trip, fuel up the truck, hook up and hit the local Cat scale and see what my real #'s are. Then decide what to do....


good idea. And while your going through the effort make the following measurements to see how close (or far) you are on the WD setup.

1) without the trailer hooked up, measure from the ground to a reference point on the front fender wheel arch, in line with the wheel centerline.
2) repeat with the trailer and WD hooked up.

Ideally (1) and (2) should be the same height, or with the trailer hooked up the measurement should be no more than about 1/2" higher. In most cases, and I think Ford recomends never having the loaded height lower than unloaded at the front end. If it is more than 1/2" or so higher loaded you either need to increase spring bar tension or go with stiffer bars.

If you repeat the measurements at the TV rear axle, you will likely see more drop at the rear, that's ok, you just never want the rear to rise when loaded.
[/quote]

Kevin - I am confused by this post, as well. Let me tell you what the Equal-i-zer instructions say . . .

1. On level gound, measure from the ground up to the center of both the *front* and *rear* wheel openings before hooking up the trailer. Record these two measurements.

2. Hook up your trailer with the Equal-izer and adjust the hitch so that the front and rear of the trailer are level. (As discussed earlier, this may not be achievable, so default to the closest you can get with the tongue a bit lower than the rear end - mine is 3/4" lower in the front than the rear - not bad for 30')

3. Now measure the the height of your wheel openings again.

4. Both the front and rear of the truck should "squat" about evenly. If there is more than 3/4" difference from front to rear, as compared to your first measurements, then you will need to re-adjust the hitch. This could be hitch head height (shank on hitch), hitch head angle (washers in front of hitch head), or L-bracket height - or a combination of 2 or 3 - ya just have to play with it.

[Let me clarify point #4 - If you initially measured a difference of 1-1/2" between the front wheel opening and the rear wheel opening - say, 42" and 44" (which is a 2" difference in height), the difference between the two measurements with trailer attached should not be more than 2-1/4". If it is, more adjustment is required.]

5. After readjusting, ensure that the trailer still sits level (or a bit tongue low, if needed). If readjustments are needed, be sure to measure those wheel openings again to ensure you haven't changed that relationship. These are called "Tweaks" and you may have to play around with it.

And after you have everything adjusted properly, keep close account of how the TV and trailer handle - bouncing ("porpoising") can sometimes be a problem. If you cannot get rid of the bouncing on rolling roads (I-90 eastbound thru Minnesota is TERRIBLE!), then try readjusting youir speed. Sometimes, the harmonics between truck and trailer get really bad at certain speeds, which is dependant on wheelbase of the TV and the distance from the hitch to the trailer axles. You cannot change this, so you have to adjust your driving habits.

When you add 1000# or so of tongue weight to the rear of the truck, the WD hitch, when properly adjusted, will cause both front and rear suspension to squat - ideally the same amount. But 3/4" difference from front to rear (variation from the whyeel opening heights first measured) is acceptable. Anything more than 3/4" and you need to tweak the setup. If the nose of your truck rides too high, you lose some steering and braking ability - not good for controlling sway - especially in high winds or when a semi passes you.

Again - I suggest downloading the installation instructions and then starting from scratch. (But measure everything first - that will give you a clue as to what direction you should go - and I still say that from your initial measurements, the shank probably needs to be lowered one set of holes, which are 1" apart. But don't forget to raise the L-Brackets or readjust the tilt also.)

The installation instructions are really quite good about explaining all of this. And I always carry them with me, just in case something needs tweaked while we are on the road - although I've not had to do this since my initial setup and tweaks.

Good Luck!

Mike


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

love2camp said:


> I think what Mike is saying is that you look to be bordering on nose high with the trailer. Ideally level is correct, but nose slightly down is better than nose up. Need to get on flat ground and measure to be sure.
> 
> That pic at the dealer was with trailer unloaded. Once you load your gear in there it will increase TW and push the back down further than 1 1/2" + raise the front of the truck. More WD will be needed to get things back correct, but you'll probably still be bordering on nose high trailer. Lower the head one hole and readjust head angle + WD bars and see what the result is.


I agree with this one! Be sure you have the trailer and truck loaded as you would for a normal camping trip (with water/without water in the tank - whatever is "normal" for you). With the trailer loaded, you might be pretty close to correct - which would save you a B I G headache - and about 4 hours of measuring and wrenching!! That's a GOOD thing!

I hadn't considered that the dealer may have set up the hitch anticipating you loading the trailer up and the hitch then being correctly adjusted - but it would be a guess on their part, without the trailer actually being loaded.

Mike


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

KTMRacer said:


> I suppose this weekend I will load the camper with everything we would bring on a trip, fuel up the truck, hook up and hit the local Cat scale and see what my real #'s are. Then decide what to do....


good idea. And while your going through the effort make the following measurements to see how close (or far) you are on the WD setup.

1) without the trailer hooked up, measure from the ground to a reference point on the front fender wheel arch, in line with the wheel centerline.
2) repeat with the trailer and WD hooked up.

Ideally (1) and (2) should be the same height, or with the trailer hooked up the measurement should be no more than about 1/2" higher. In most cases, and I think Ford recomends never having the loaded height lower than unloaded at the front end. If it is more than 1/2" or so higher loaded you either need to increase spring bar tension or go with stiffer bars.

If you repeat the measurements at the TV rear axle, you will likely see more drop at the rear, that's ok, you just never want the rear to rise when loaded.
[/quote]I did take the measurements when i got home from the dealer. The front end raised less than 1/2" and the rear dropped about 1 1/2"...Here is a pic from the dealer before we left.








[/quote]

Yup! You need to re-adjust that hitch. From your measurements and the photo, it looks to me like lowering the shank 1 inch (one hole up) from the current position will help a great deal. But then you may need to raise the L-Brackets one notch or tilt the hitch head forward (maybe one washer removed) to get the tension corrected on you WD bars. Lowering the hitch head will put more stress on the bars if all else stays the same.

Mike
[/quote]Mike, I'm confused?? KTMRacer says "ideally" the front end should be the same height loaded as unloaded but no more than 1/2" higher?? My front end is less than 1/2" and the rear is down 1 1/2".. If i did the adjustments you recommend what kind of measurements would i be looking to achieve?? I am within the measurements that KTMRacer mentioned? What are you seeing from my photo that i am not seeing?
I do appreciate your time and the help you are offering me Mike since i really do not have to much experience on this matter.








[/quote]

First, I'd like to complement you on trying to really understand trailer setup. I wish everyone was as concerned and careful as you.  Makes for a much safer trip once you've got it dialed in.

Second, unfortunetly, I seldom see dealers do a good job of WD hitch setup, which IMHO is a real diservice to customers. They should do a better setup and then explain in detail how a WD hitch works and how to adjust it. But then, I think lots of them don't even really know how they work! Yours actually looks better than many I've seen, and your measurements are at least in the ballpark of where they should be.!

Mike can chime in, but Looking at your picture, it looks like the trailer is slightly "nose up" rather than "nose down". that is the trailer should either be level or with one that long, the tongue down slightly. makes it more stable and less likely to drag the rear on bumps. With the tow vehicle front up 1/2" and the back down 1.5" your in pretty good shape for distribution. Not quite where I would target, but then there is lots of controversy on how close the front/rear should be to unloaded conditions, in fact even the mfg often have differing suggestions. IIRC GM often say bring the front back to unloaded, Ford often says either up 1/2" or split the difference between loaded and unloaded. Most mfg say set the front, don't worry about the rear. I suspect that since they are talking pickups, the rear usually has plenty of stiffness and won't drop to much.

My preference (and that's all it is) if I had your truck and setup, would be to try to crank in some more tension and bring the truck front down a little more, that will also raise the rear, and make the "nose up" worse, so you'll need to drop the head. The reason I'd try to drop the front more on a 1/2 ton is to keep the truck front axle load the same as unloaded. I've helped set up several friends 1/2 tons and expeditions. The initial problem was they thought they had sway, front end wandered easily. The real problem was the front was way high, unloading the front, changing front camber and changing the truck from understeer to oversteer. The front end was to light. In both cases once we got the front back down to unloaded or with 1/4" the change in handling was dramatic.

Here is a couple of links to info on WD hitch setup on RV net. Great reading for insomniacs!!

how to set up a hitch

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/17730894.cfm

how WD works

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/14265335.cfm

Hope this helps.
[/quote]

OK. I didn't see this one before I posted. Confusion is cleared up. Lots of good info here, and I agree with most of what is said. Again, the Equal-i-zer installation instructions, along with info on their website, goes a long way to getting that hitch set up properly.

Good Luck! (Once again!)

Mike


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## CamperKev (Feb 20, 2012)

Ok i will load the trailer this weekend and have it loaded for camping.Then i am going to drop the hitch head one hole down on the shank to bring the nose of the camper to level or slightly nose down. Then i will go up one hole on the L brackets to try and bring the front end down to the unloaded normal measurement. I hope this is all it takes to get it right.. Thanks for all the great feedback!

Kevin


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## KTMRacer (Jun 28, 2010)

Scoutr2 said:


> I suppose this weekend I will load the camper with everything we would bring on a trip, fuel up the truck, hook up and hit the local Cat scale and see what my real #'s are. Then decide what to do....


good idea. And while your going through the effort make the following measurements to see how close (or far) you are on the WD setup.

1) without the trailer hooked up, measure from the ground to a reference point on the front fender wheel arch, in line with the wheel centerline.
2) repeat with the trailer and WD hooked up.

Ideally (1) and (2) should be the same height, or with the trailer hooked up the measurement should be no more than about 1/2" higher. In most cases, and I think Ford recomends never having the loaded height lower than unloaded at the front end. If it is more than 1/2" or so higher loaded you either need to increase spring bar tension or go with stiffer bars.

If you repeat the measurements at the TV rear axle, you will likely see more drop at the rear, that's ok, you just never want the rear to rise when loaded.
[/quote]

Kevin - I am confused by this post, as well. Let me tell you what the Equal-i-zer instructions say . . .

1. On level gound, measure from the ground up to the center of both the *front* and *rear* wheel openings before hooking up the trailer. Record these two measurements.

2. Hook up your trailer with the Equal-izer and adjust the hitch so that the front and rear of the trailer are level. (As discussed earlier, this may not be achievable, so default to the closest you can get with the tongue a bit lower than the rear end - mine is 3/4" lower in the front than the rear - not bad for 30')

3. Now measure the the height of your wheel openings again.

4. Both the front and rear of the truck should "squat" about evenly. If there is more than 3/4" difference from front to rear, as compared to your first measurements, then you will need to re-adjust the hitch. This could be hitch head height (shank on hitch), hitch head angle (washers in front of hitch head), or L-bracket height - or a combination of 2 or 3 - ya just have to play with it.

[Let me clarify point #4 - If you initially measured a difference of 1-1/2" between the front wheel opening and the rear wheel opening - say, 42" and 44" (which is a 2" difference in height), the difference between the two measurements with trailer attached should not be more than 2-1/4". If it is, more adjustment is required.]

5. After readjusting, ensure that the trailer still sits level (or a bit tongue low, if needed). If readjustments are needed, be sure to measure those wheel openings again to ensure you haven't changed that relationship. These are called "Tweaks" and you may have to play around with it.

And after you have everything adjusted properly, keep close account of how the TV and trailer handle - bouncing ("porpoising") can sometimes be a problem. If you cannot get rid of the bouncing on rolling roads (I-90 eastbound thru Minnesota is TERRIBLE!), then try readjusting youir speed. Sometimes, the harmonics between truck and trailer get really bad at certain speeds, which is dependant on wheelbase of the TV and the distance from the hitch to the trailer axles. You cannot change this, so you have to adjust your driving habits.

When you add 1000# or so of tongue weight to the rear of the truck, the WD hitch, when properly adjusted, will cause both front and rear suspension to squat - ideally the same amount. But 3/4" difference from front to rear (variation from the whyeel opening heights first measured) is acceptable. Anything more than 3/4" and you need to tweak the setup. If the nose of your truck rides too high, you lose some steering and braking ability - not good for controlling sway - especially in high winds or when a semi passes you.

Again - I suggest downloading the installation instructions and then starting from scratch. (But measure everything first - that will give you a clue as to what direction you should go - and I still say that from your initial measurements, the shank probably needs to be lowered one set of holes, which are 1" apart. But don't forget to raise the L-Brackets or readjust the tilt also.)

The installation instructions are really quite good about explaining all of this. And I always carry them with me, just in case something needs tweaked while we are on the road - although I've not had to do this since my initial setup and tweaks.

Good Luck!

Mike
[/quote]

One thing to take into consideration and a caution on WD hitch setup. Many time instructions call for the same amount of "squat" front and rear. In days of old this was a good way and the recomended way to set up WD hitches. While IMHO it is still the ideal way to setup a WD hitch, it isn't practical on many vehicles because of front suspension design. On many vehicles made today it can be a problem getting "squat" at the front. the issue is that many trucks have some form of rubber "bump" stop on the front suspension that engages if the front end compresses even a small amount below unloaded height, like less than 1/4". My 2500HD silverado is one such animal. Many fords also have a similar bump stop on the front suspension. If you try to get the front and rear to drop the same amount it's almost impossible to do since the compression rate on the bump stops is very high and if you do get the front to squat, you often find the front end is overloaded. so before trying get the front to squat below the unloaded height check carefully for any bumpstops on the front suspension. If so, don't drop it below unloaded height. That is likely to end up with the rear dropping more than the "recomended" amount called in the hitch setup, but not much you can do about it.

And you thought this whole setup question was going to be easy to answer!!!!!


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## CamperKev (Feb 20, 2012)

Ok Mike(Scoutr2) I filled the camper with everything we would bring for a trip and i dropped the hitch head down 1 hole and brought up the L brackets 1 hole like you suggested. Re-measured the space in between the wheel wells again before and after hitching up. All i can say is thank you to Mike and everyone else that helped out!!!!!







Now the front wheel well measurement stays the same height when hitched and the trailer is a little nose down instead of up!
I took her for a 50 mile ride today on the highway and she feels so much more stable and she tracked straight as an arrow! Very pleased and very thankful for all the help! I will get to the certified Cat Scale this week and see exactly what my #'s are.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

CamperKev said:


> Ok Mike(Scoutr2) I filled the camper with everything we would bring for a trip and i dropped the hitch head down 1 hole and brought up the L brackets 1 hole like you suggested. Re-measured the space in between the wheel wells again before and after hitching up. All i can say is thank you to Mike and everyone else that helped out!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good to hear you had an easy time of it! Sometimes, you can chase this stuff forever, it seems. The setup looks good, from the photo you posted. Glad everything worked out well for you. This is a GREAT place to come to when you need answers to questions - and where I learned most of what I know about towing, hitches, and my Outback trailer, in general.

Happy camping!

Mike


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