# Stock --> Dual 6V Trojan T-125 Upgrade Report



## chetlenox (Feb 3, 2004)

Hey all,

Just figured I would send a quick note that I finally buckled to Y-Guy's peer pressure and installed dual 6V golf cart batteries (Trojan T-125s) in my 28RSS just in time for a 5 day bird hunting trip in Eastern Oregon. Since I was wondering about how well it would work out, I figure others might be to:

Physical size: The Trojan T-125 fits just fine in the stock battery positions (I had two relatively cheap Exide 12V Group 24s before). Just drop 'em in, wire (in series of course), and go. The tops on the battery covers sit a little higher, but no big deal.

Capacity: Specs indicate I should have ~240 Amp-hours at 12V with this setup. For me, that meant with a fully charged set of batteries (a hair under 1300 on the hydrometer) we went 5 days and 4 nights. Moderate to heavy light usage, lots of water pump time, and about an hour of furnace time a day. By the time we left, the batteries were pretty much done (a little above 1100 on hydrometer) but were still powering everything. I was very pleased. A regular long weekend with the family with heavier furnace usage should work fine.

Price: $75 per battery at the local Battery Exchange.

Weight: Yep, they are heavy. Substantially heavier than the Group 24s. But still fine to move around by hand. I wouldn't want them much heavier though.

Issues: Only one. Once I got home from the trip I disconnected the batteries and put them on deep cycle charge in the shop as usual. When I took the trailer out to the barn to park it I noticed that the truck wasn't supplying 12V to the trailer anymore (lights and brakes still worked). After some troubleshooting I found a blown 20A fuse in position #115 on my truck (Trailer battery charge). I don't know when it blew, but I was guessing I must have touched hot-to-ground when I was pulling the batteries. But then I'm not sure why it would have blown the fuse, since the truck was off (and key off) at the time, so the trailer battery charge relay should have isolated the truck. So it's possible I blew the fuse charging on the way home... although that seems unlikely. Anyway, I'll replace the fuse and see if it's a one-time thing. I'm not too concerned, but I'll report out if I find anything else.

Well, that's the scoop... Like I said, I'm pretty pleased with the extra capacity. Dry camping in colder weather (when I've got to do some furnace running) should be more straightforward now.

Chet.


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## hurricaneplumber (Apr 12, 2004)

Chet,

I also did mine with Interstate Workaholic 6 volts, 220 amp-hours, $72 each, also 62 pounds each. They hold up wonderful. Glad I did this.

I went with 4 AWG wire and heavy duty crimp on connectors. Next item is a switch to shut the circuit off.

I charge mine with my new Vector 3-stage smart charger, works like a dream.

Since a lot of our camping is without electric sites, these bad boys sure work great.

I highly recommend this mod.

Glad your system works great also. How was the birding?

Kevin


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## chetlenox (Feb 3, 2004)

HP,

Yep, I need the cutoff switch as well. I was thinking of mounting one of those marine-style units near the battery boxes, either on the inside of the trailer frame or maybe where the battery lines actually connect with the chassis of the trailer (behind the propane tanks).

You haven't had any trouble blowing fuses on your Ford, have you?

The hunting was great. Had to work a while to figure out that the Chukar were up high (4500+ feet), but once we did we got into lots of birds. We hadn't ever seen them at that elevation before, but we didn't mind considering it got us up out of the canyons and onto the flatter and brushier rims.

Chet.


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Chet sounds like they worked out great (make me sound like an overlord or something!).

When I charge mine i flip the disconnect and charge them as a single 12v, never blow a fuse yet (knock on wood).


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

My dual 6 volt batteries have been just great. I've had them a couple seasons now.

One thing to note:
I very seldom use much juice, and usually just plug in the trailer to charge the batt's. Check your fluid level often, because the level will drop frequently. (I don't leave the trailer plugged in all that much either)


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## Martybeech (Mar 13, 2004)

I have the Trojan dual 6 volts and mounted a marine cutoff switch on the frame under the cover (beside the right hand battery). This is a great mod if you dry camp. We used the water pump and furnace (all night) for 3 nights and they were still going strong. The holding tanks are more the limitation (for us)


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## hurricaneplumber (Apr 12, 2004)

Speaking of batteries, I am going to go re-charge mine right now.

Thanks for the reminder.

Kevin


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

The blown fuse could be due to the attempt by your truck to rapidly charge the depleted TT batteries. You had the hydrometer readings at the end of the trip but what was the battery voltage when you were ready to go home?

I would have to look at the charging circuit for your truck but unless your truck was running I would not think you would get any current/voltage from your truck to the trailer charging circuit. The TV battery should not directly provide voltage to the TT battery charging curcuit but now you have me curious so I will have to check to see if mine does. If it does and you leave your TV connected to your TT you could kill both your starting battery and your TT batteries.


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## hurricaneplumber (Apr 12, 2004)

Chet,

I haven't blown any fuses on my truck, how did you know it was blown? Is something else affected? I haven't checked to be honest, I am assuming it is fine.

I believe there is a relay that keeps the charging system separate from the truck battery when hooked up. Now I am curious and need to look into it more.

I'm still sorting out the remote starter/keyless entry/alarm system I just installed, maybe I'll check my fuses then.

Kevin


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## chetlenox (Feb 3, 2004)

CamperAndy,

I thought about that (the fully depleted batteries causing enough of a current pull to blow the fuse), but I thought that seemed odd. Seems like if everything is working normally, full possible power from the alternator shouldn't blow the fuse. It should only blow if there was a short or some other problem. At least it seems that way for me.

As for the hydrometer reading, that was what the batteries measured at the end of the trip but before we drove home. So the batteries were definitely depleted. The one thing I didn't check was what they were when I got home (8 hour drive), so I don't know if they received any charge. For that matter, I didn't notice the blown fuse until the next day.

As for the way the TV connection works, my Ford has a relay that requires the ignition to be in the "on" (key turned) position before it will connect the TV electrical system to the trailer. But it makes the connection wether or not the engine is running. That actually is kind of nice, because I take the batteries out when the trailer is stored away in the barn. So if I need temporary power for the trailer, I can just back the truck up and connect up the pigtail, leaving the key in the "on" position. But like you said, the danger is that you can drain your TV battery. That is why they have the relay, so under normal circumstances you shut down your truck, take the key out, and the TV is isolated. So that's how it works for my Ford.

The only mystery that is still around is why the fuse blew. I'm assuming (hoping) that I just accidently left the key on and shorted something when I was pulling the batteries out to charge them.

Hurricane, my whole troubleshooting path for the fuse was just: 1) Notice truck doesn't supply 12V power to trailer (but lights still work). 2) Check connection (fine). 3) Look up fuse number for trailer charging circuit in owners manual (my fuses are under the dash near the drivers left leg), 4) Check that fuse and see that it was blown (it's one of those little "mini-box" types you can see), 5) Replaced fuse and 12V power now works again.

It was simple enough that even I could figure it out.









All this discussion is a good reminder for me though. I'm taking the trailer out to Eastern Oregon this weekend, I need to check and see that I have some replacement fuses, just in case it happens again...

Chet.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Well I had to check my rigs and found that both my 04 Ram 1500 and 03 Honda Pilot both supply 12 vdc to the TT charge circuit with the TV shutdown and with the key removed. So the Outback is not the only thing that needs to have mods done in the spring. I need to install a isolation relay in the TV charge circuit to the TT to make sure it is only supplying voltage when the TV is running (or at least with the key in and in the on/accessory position).

Back to your charging rate, this is just a question. If your batteries are really down cant your alternator supply more than 20 amps? Again I would have to think about all the different protection devices in the TV electrical system but it would seem that you could and that would be one of the reasons why there is a fuse, not just to protect from a dead short. Just thinking out loud.


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## chetlenox (Feb 3, 2004)

CamperAndy,

The alternator on my Ford is rated at 130 Amps, so I imagine it's capable of supplying enough current to blow the fuse. But it shouldn't hit the batteries that hard, 20+ amps would be a lot of current, so the voltage regulator would really have to bring the applied voltage up pretty high to get there. Maybe I'll do a little more digging and find out how the trailer charge setup works on my truck. But most of the time I hear about people running larger gauge wire from the alternator to the trailer plug to try and reduce the voltage drop (and get more current), rather than having trouble with TOO much current. It just wouldn't make much sense (to me, at least) that it would blow a fuse every time I hooked up my trailer with low battery charge. I'd go through a lot of fuses!

As for adding a relay to your TV, it might not be worth the trouble. Don't you disconnect the TV from the trailer once you park 99% of the time anyway?

Chet.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

There is always that 1%.

I guess we will need to wait for the next trip when you really drain the T125's.


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## chetlenox (Feb 3, 2004)

That shouldn't be too long. 3 days in Eastern Oregon (with the furnace running to keep everything from freezing) ought to do it this weekend. Assuming I can get out of Portland and through the Columbia River Gorge before the expected storm hits on Thursday.









I just did a quick search of the Open Roads forum using words like "charge", "amps", and "Ford" and found lots of discussion of running large gauge wire from the alternator back to the trailer charge pin to improve the charging performance of the truck. People were also knocking around how many amps they were able to get into the batteries from their TV alternator. Folks reported measuring 1-3 amps with their engines at idle and more (anything from 5-15 amps) when driving (for driving speeds, they estimated amperage based on how charged their batteries were over a period of time). But I expect that the actual amperage would vary a lot based on alternator, gauge of wire, and battery charge level in the trailer... So these are pretty rough numbers.

I'll report out battery and charging performance next week...

Chet.


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## chetlenox (Feb 3, 2004)

I am back from my hunting trip, and everything worked out great. No blown trailer battery charge fuse on my TV and the batteries discharged (and recharged) fine. I do have a few extra comments:

1) The battery charge amount from the TV is pretty low, overall. We had pretty much completely drained the batteries and had a 12 hour drive home, and they were still pretty dead (I can't remember the hydrometer reading, off the top of my head). I'm definitely just getting a trickle. I really need to measure the amps coming off the TV.

2) Even two T-125s doesn't last very long for 4 days in very cold weather. It was in the 20s most of the time (never got above freezing, even during the day) and we tried to run the furnace a moderate amount to try and keep the water lines from freezing. Fortunately, we had...

3) That little Honda 1kW generator is cool! A buddy of mine uses one on his boat and brought it along for the trip. So when the batteries got low, we were able to hook it up to my 12A battery charger and give them a little zip. We ran it 2-4 hours a day to keep up. One thing though, the 1kW output wasn't enough to run the 12V converter (by just plugging the generator into the AC port on the back of the trailer). I was a bit surprised by this, since I didn't think the 12V converter (and it's associated battery charger) took that much juice. But it was definitely the converter, since I switched all the AC circuit breakers off and it still would overload the generator if plugged in. I looked in the converter documentation and tried to find how many amps it would put into the batteries (in addition to powering the interior lights, furnace, etc), but it didn't say. So I guess if I want to buy a generator some day, I should get the 2k one...

Anyway, that's the final scoop. The T-125s are a success, and I'm now 100% sure I just shorted the lines removing the batteries the last time, and that's what blew my truck fuse. The bird hunting was good too. No chukar, but lots of quail. The only downside was that going over the mountain passes (and even lots of flat ground out in Eastern Oregon) was an absolute bear with all the bad weather. I-84 over Meacham pass was bad icy and windy, we passed a flipped pickup further up the road near Durkee, and I saw a tractor trailer jackknife on Stinking Water pass near Burns. I have to say that the TV+Outback towed pretty well through all that mess, even if we were taking it real easy speed-wise. Only had to chain up once. Did lose two of my trailer tires on that sharp gravel they use for the roads though, so I think I'll be shopping for some more robust tires than the stock Duro's if I'm going to do that trip again...

I think next time we'll just try and hit a better weather weekend!









Chet.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Your Excursion is a diesel, so I expect your alternator is already trying to charge 2 batteries in the tv. I wonder if the addition of 2 more was just more than the alternator could handle. I have often thought of adding another battery (regular rv 12v) to my rig, but haven't done it yet because I thought it might just be too much for my alternator.

As far as the 1k Honda running the converter..... Did you have your fridge on auto select? If it was then the minute you hook up the power, the fridge would kick to electric and add just that much stress to the generator. Not sure how much the fridge draws when on electric, but may be just enough to push the gen over the edge.


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

Thanks for the report, and generator tips.


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

I have a second battery that I added in my truck. bought battery tray for drivers side from GM. added a battery isolator and a dual purpose battery.
The only thing hooked up to it at the moment is the charging circuit from the isolator/alternator and the trailer plug at the rear of the truck.
Anyways, I have had my camper battery die in the middle of the night. I turned off the disconnect to the trailer battery and plugged in the trailer to the truck which then drew off of this second battery.
I have abused this battery for a few years now, pretty much depleted it a few times.
I can start the truck from my starting battery when both the second truck battery and the trailer battery are dead. Never blown a fuse yet. 30 amp fuse to trailer connecter. so far, no damage to 100 amp alternator.
I did just get the outback this September though and I think there will be dual 6 volts goin on in the spring. If I could just find battery boxes that fit them.


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## hurricaneplumber (Apr 12, 2004)

Chet,

Somewhere I read a article about battery testing the hygrometer way (specific gravity). It mentioned to get a accurate reading that the battery needs to stabilize after transport and charging for awhile. I wonder if checking it right after towing, if that affects the reading very much.

You can always wire in a amp-meter gauge inside the truck and monitor the output in the wire feeding the trailer, then you would know while driving what the amps are going to the trailer.

I need to see if I can find that article again to make sure I read it correctly.

Kevin


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## chetlenox (Feb 3, 2004)

vdub, I suppose it's possible that the two batteries draw a little more juice. But I would guess it wouldn't make much difference, since they should just require a little bit of a trickle to put back in what was required to turn the engine over. But I certainly don't know for sure.

Kevin, I hadn't heard that about the hygrometer readings, I'll have to check that out. I'm sure the acid gets slushed around a whole bunch while towing, but I never knew it could effect the readings. You are right though, an ammeter gauge just for the trailer charge line would be the ideal solution. I'll have to shop around and see if something could be done relatively cheaply but still look decent...

Chet.


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## JimWilson (Feb 24, 2004)

vdub said:


> Your Excursion is a diesel, so I expect your alternator is already trying to charge 2 batteries in the tv. I wonder if the addition of 2 more was just more than the alternator could handle.


I'm not sure that's it. My Silverado, with the snow plow prep package, has a 130 amp alternator. And that's a gas motor. The diesel, which takes a whole lot more to crank over (and has the batteries to prove it), should have an alternator in the 150 amp range. If so, then the trailer batteries really shouldn't be a problem for it -- that's an awful lot of juice to go around.


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## chetlenox (Feb 3, 2004)

Jim, I'm pretty sure I've got a 130amp alternator on my Ford. I've always heard that it's more to do with the length and gauge of wire getting back to the batteries from the alternator than the capacity of the alternator itself. I don't know what the wiring looks like from hood to hitch, but I think I might take a look at it...

Oh yeah, and good tip on the frig being on Vdub, it was the first thing I checked. It was on gas.

Chet.


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## hurricaneplumber (Apr 12, 2004)

Chet,

I have another article somewhere I am looking..

HOW DO I USE A HYDROMETER?

A hydrometer is an inexpensive a float-type device used to measure the concentration of sulfuric acid (Specific Gravity) of battery electrolyte ("battery acid"). From this reading you can easily and accurately determine a non-sealed battery's State-of-Charge. A hydrometer is a glass barrel or plastic container with a rubber nozzle or hose on one end and a soft rubber bulb on the other. Inside the barrel or container, there is a float and calibrated graduations used for the Specific Gravity measurement. The following is a list of instructions on how to correctly use a battery hydrometer:

*If the battery has been charged within the last four hours, remove the Surface Charge. If the battery has been discharged within the last 15 minutes, wait for at least 15 minutes before testing it.*

While holding a clean hydrometer vertically and wearing glasses, squeeze the rubber bulb, insert the nozzle into the electrolyte in the cell, and release the bulb. The electrolyte will be sucked up into the barrel or container allowing the float to ride freely. Start with the cell that is closest to the POSITIVE (+) terminal.

Squeeze the rubber bulb to release the electrolyte back into the battery's cell.

To increase the accuracy of the measurement, in the same cell, repeat this process several times so the float will reach the same temperature as the electrolyte. If you are measuring a large battery, stratification can occur when the more concentrated electrolyte settles to the bottom. If you notice a difference in the readings between the top and bottom of the cell, average the two readings.

At eye level and with the float steady, read the Specific Gravity at the point the surface of the electrolyte crosses the float markings. The Specific Gravity reading should be between 1.100 and 1.300.

Release the electrolyte back into the cell from which it was taken and record the reading. Be sure to avoid spillage.

If the hydrometer is not temperature compensating, measure the electrolyte temperature. If the electrolyte temperature is not 80Â° F (26.7Â° C), then compensate the reading using the Temperature Compensation Table and examples in Section 4.4 and determine the State of Charge from the SoC Table. If the hydrometer is temperature compensating, determine the State of Charge directly from the SoC Table.

Repeat the process for each individual cell. The Specific Gravity reading should not have a difference of more that 30 "points" (.030) between the lowest and highest reading or 10 "points" (.010) below the battery manufacturer's recommended temperature value with the battery fully charged. If so, try and equalize the the battery by following the battery manufacturer's procedures or the procedure in Section 9. If equalizing does not help, replace the battery. You can determine the battery's State-of-Charge by taking the average of the temperature compensated cell readings.

Throughly rinse the hydrometer with water after using it.

*4.3. Remove Surface Charge*

Surface charge (or counter voltage) is the uneven mixture of sulfuric acid and water along the surface of the plates as a result of charging or discharging as the electrolyte has an opportunity to diffuse in the pores of the plates. It will make a weak battery appear good or a good battery appear bad. You need to eliminate the surface charge by one of the following methods after recharging a lead-acid car battery:

*4.3.1. Allow the battery to sit (or rest) without discharge or recharge for between six to twelve hours in a warm room, if possible, to allow for the surface charge to dissipate. (Recommended method.)*

4.3.2. Turn the headlights on high beam for five minutes, turn them off, and wait five to ten minutes.

4.3.3. With a battery load tester, apply a load at one-half the battery's CCA rating for 15 seconds and then wait five to ten minutes.

4.3.4. Disable the ignition, turn the engine over for 15 seconds with the starter motor, and wait five to ten minutes.

4.3.5. Apply a load that is 33% of the ampere-hour capacity for five minutes and wait five to ten minutes.

4.3.6. With a battery load tester, apply a load is one third the battery's amp-hour rating for five minutes and wait five to ten minutes.


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## chetlenox (Feb 3, 2004)

Excellent! Thanks Kevin. You are the Reference Master...

Chet.


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## Roloaddict (Oct 29, 2004)

Just installed Trojan T-145's, 260 Ah batteries. Test report after the first Dry Camp.


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