# Fifth Wheel Toy Hauler



## Southpaw (Jul 14, 2008)

This past week I had to run to the local RV place to pick-up a few cleaning supplies and a few other items to begin winterizing my TT. Back in May, I upgraded my TV to a Ford F-250...knowing in the back of my mind I would be upgrading to a fifth wheel. As we pay for the items we purchased, the GF and I ask a sales person to show us a few of their fifth wheels. At first they were exactly what I've seen online...THEN the salesman shows us a fifth wheel toy hauler...WOW!!! I now have a new want. A toy hauler is perfect...it allows for a golf cart (another toy for me), gives us the extra room needed (will need) with four growing boys and the GF loves the layout and kitchen. The Cyclone, Raptor and Open Range have very nice 2010 models.

Time to do my homework...class is in session! What do I need to know: the gross combined weight I can tow is 22k lbs; most of the TH are about anywhere from 11k to 14k. What range do I need to stay within to be on the safe side? I only have two years experience towing a camper so any piece of advise you can offer would be greatly appreciated.


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

For good, first-hand information on towing some of those toy-haulers, I would pm Outbackers.com member Colorado~Dirtbikers. I am sure he will chime in soon!

-CC


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Id stick to something in the 30 foot range. I deliver rvs for a living and my yard is mostly Heartland so I pull alot of Cyclones. There 30 foot model is a very nice rig. I think you could squeeze that into your towing capacity.

So check out a 30 foot model of the brands you spoke of and see if that might fit you. The 30 foot Cyclone has blue graphics and it is one of the perttiest toyhaulers Ive seen. All I really know about is Heartlands so I cant say much about the others.

2 years experience will be plenty to handle a Toyhauler. They tow better than bumper pulls, but taking corners and watching for obsticles overhead has to be more of a priority cause they are around 13 foot tall. They dont corner as well as a bumper pull cause of the height.

You got the truck, so no worries there.

Have fun comparing them. I agree. They are awesome rigs.

Carey


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

Fuzions are very nice also. Just watch your pin weight. That is the first problem you will run into. I have the same 22K GCWR, which the truck weighs 8200 so that leaves nearly 14k. Unfortunatly with the 2500 that does nto allow me the payload to carry 2700lbs of tonque weight. I have found some Fuzions near me that are marked down over $30k, but they have heavy noses. the problem is that they have the generators up front. So you have to stay small overall to keep the tonque weight down.

Have not seen the Heartlands in person yet, but have seen the Raptors and Fuzions. Very similar because they are both made by Keystone. We really like the 322 fuzion and the same version in a Raptor, but in the Velocity special edition. Enjoy the rideof looking they are amazing. Just need to sell our current 5er and we will get more serious.

Enjoy.

Jim


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## Southpaw (Jul 14, 2008)

Thanks DirtBikers: I loved the Cyclone but I'm pretty sure I can only carry the 3010. A good thing is my local rv store has one in stock!!!

JoonBee: This is what I was looking for; help doing the math. Let's take the Cyclone 3010 for example: if the dry weight is 11.5k, with a hitch weight of 2.5k that gives me a weight of 14k; then add the weight of the TT is 7k...21k. So in reality: I'd suspect the 5er would weight more like 12.5k once loaded (add the hitch/tongue weight at 2.5k) equals 15k; plus TV weight with passengers puts me at 8k = my combined weight would be 23k; which I confirmed is my gross combined weight rating. Did I do the calculations correct?


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Southpaw said:


> Thanks DirtBikers: I loved the Cyclone but I'm pretty sure I can only carry the 3010. A good thing is my local rv store has one in stock!!!
> 
> JoonBee: This is what I was looking for; help doing the math. Let's take the Cyclone 3010 for example: if the dry weight is 11.5k, with a hitch weight of 2.5k that gives me a weight of 14k; then add the weight of the TT is 7k...21k. So in reality: I'd suspect the 5er would weight more like 12.5k once loaded (add the hitch/tongue weight at 2.5k) equals 15k; plus TV weight with passengers puts me at 8k = my combined weight would be 23k; which I confirmed is my gross combined weight rating. Did I do the calculations correct?


Your dry weight includes the hitch weight. If you add the 2, you are counting the same weight twice. Dry weight is figured on sitting there, not hooked up to anything, so all weight is calculated.

The whole issue with the 2500# pin weight is that it will overload your 3/4 ton truck's payload capacity by itself, without adding in passengers in the truck, fuel, all your other stuff you take along. Plus, add in weight for all the stuff that goes into the front storage compartment, and soon your closer to 3000#, which will crush your truck's capacity.

Steve


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

As far as payload goes - you can add spring helpers and/or air bags. The main difference between 3/4 and 1 ton trucks is an extra leaf in the rear spring packs. I'd sure stick with the size range Carey indicated though unless you plan on getting a dually.

-CC


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

Huntr got ya. You will surpass you cargo capacity before GCWR.

CC- you can help with springs, but bags will not increase your carrying capacity. They are only there for stabilization.

Also be aware of your rear axle rating and tires. If you upgrade springs, you will still be confined to your axle and tires.

Jim


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## Southpaw (Jul 14, 2008)

mmmmmm now I'll have to go research my payload weight restrictions...be right back!


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## Southpaw (Jul 14, 2008)

Ok so if I understand this correctly; my Cargo weight will include passengers (their stuff) + the hitch weight, right? If the six of us combined have a body weight of 700 lbs, minus the limit of 2270 max cargo weight...means the 5ier cannot have a hitch weight which exceeds 1500 lbs, correct?


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## Yianni (Aug 30, 2006)

Southpaw,
I just towed my new Heartland Cyclone 3010 that Carey spoke of from Ohio to California with my 2008 GMC 2500 HD D/A. It towed beautifully. As Carey said, it did tow much easier than my 25RSS. I came through some really severe weather in Oklahoma and it tracked right behind me.
As far as quality and fit and finish, the Heartland was the tops. We looked at Keystone also but were not as happy with the quality.
Our first love is the Outback but we needed more room, a built in gen and larger gray and fresh tanks.
Good luck!


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

On a 3/4 ton or up, you can go clear up to the axle weight rating on your rear axle. Its prolly like 60000lbs. If you add some air bags you wont hurt that axle one bit. Just run some good syn oil like 75-140 Mobil 1 or Amsoil.

I would toss the payload capacity out the window and only worry about the gross combined rating.

Nobody is gonna sue you or anything as long as you stay under the max weight rating of the tires. I run thru state weigh scales everyday. They have told me time and time again that all the law will enforce is tire ratings. If you are in an accident thats all they worry about too. There are thousand upon thousands of 3/4 tons towing 5ers that are way over there payload capacity for the truck.

Its never been a worry till the invention of the internet. Then the weight police formed. I think they are full of bunk. The only thing the law wants to see is staying under gross combined, but that is 2nd place to tire ratings. Tire ratings are god.

If your truck appears level than knowone will ever even give you a second look. Get you some air bags and keep your truck level and enjoy whatever 5er you like is what I say. From my experience a 3/4 ton will totally manhandle a 30 foot toyhauler reguardless of the ratings of the truck.

Good to hear from you Yianni. I was wondering how the trip home went.

Rant over. lol

Carey


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## Southpaw (Jul 14, 2008)

Trying to see if my vehicle load stickers will show-up.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Just to let you know, your max front axle weight is higher than my 1 ton dodge dually 4x4. Mine is 5200 yours is 6000. No I wouldnt put 12000lbs on your truck, but we all know many do.

You will be in the 5000lb range I bet on the rear axle with many models of those toyhauler 5ers. Your front axle will also be in the 5000lb range making your truck weigh right at its max gvwr of 10000, maybe a bit over, but I promise you, you not gonna have a bit of trouble.

With a 30-32 toyhualer you'llbe just fine. Its a perfect combo for a 3/4 truck.

I pull many 40 foot cyclones and my front axle weighs right at 5000lbs. My rear axle weighs close to 90000. I do have a 115 gallon tank in the bed plus prolly 3-400lbs of tools and hitch products in my toolbox also. So yeah maybe you will push 6000 on the rear. But its not gonna hurt anything. My gvwr for my truck is 12200. I weigh right around 14000 with many cyclones. DOT weighs me, and sometimes checks my door stickers. They say as long as im in axle limits and tire ratings they could care a less.

Now I do know guys who tow 4-5 car wedge trailers and weigh around 36000lbs with a 1 ton dually. DOT could care a less about that also as long as the axle and tire ratings arent exceeded.

Carey


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## Southpaw (Jul 14, 2008)

Thanks Dirt, there is a Dodge/Ford joke there somewhere... You mentioned tire rating; as long as I have E rated tires, I should be go to go, correct?

Below are the specs for a 2010 Cyclone 3010...

Specifications for CY 3010 
GVWR 14,000 lbs 
Dry Weight 11,525 lbs 
Hitch Weight 2,530 lbs 
Width 8' 5" 
Height 12' 10"
Length 35' 2" 
Axles (2) 7,000 lbs 
Tires ST235/80R16-E


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Southpaw said:


> Thanks Dirt, there is a Dodge/Ford joke there somewhere... You mentioned tire rating; as long as I have E rated tires, I should be go to go, correct?
> 
> Below are the specs for a 2010 Cyclone 3010...
> 
> ...


Allow me to chime in briefly here. The cargo capacity of my F350 is 3600 I beleive (before options of course). The Cyclone in question is 2500 pin weight empty. It will be more like 3k loaded (could even be slightly over that). Now subtract the weight of the hitch and you have under 500 lbs of cargo capacity remaining on a F350. There is a reason you see a lot of duallies towing the 35' plus 5'ers. Just take that into consideration before upgrading to anything that big.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Nathan said:


> Thanks Dirt, there is a Dodge/Ford joke there somewhere... You mentioned tire rating; as long as I have E rated tires, I should be go to go, correct?
> 
> Below are the specs for a 2010 Cyclone 3010...
> 
> ...


Allow me to chime in briefly here. The cargo capacity of my F350 is 3600 I beleive (before options of course). The Cyclone in question is 2500 pin weight empty. It will be more like 3k loaded (could even be slightly over that). Now subtract the weight of the hitch and you have under 500 lbs of cargo capacity remaining on a F350. There is a reason you see a lot of duallies towing the 35' plus 5'ers. Just take that into consideration before upgrading to anything that big.
[/quote]

They are nose heavy empty. The nose gets lighter as you pack things in the garage. The entire garage is behind the axles. Will a full max load your hitch weight will stay the same at 2500 or will be slightly less. If the liquid tanks are more towards the rear the hitch could easilly go to 2000.

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Just like Yianni said, a 3/4 will tow a 30 foot cyclone with ease. Just add some air bags and some good diff oil and away you go. Max out your air pressure too.

In fact before you buy that bad boy, hitch it up, and throw the salesman in your truck and go test drive it. If they want to sell and you make it a point to test drive it, they will let you do it.

Carey


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## forceten (Nov 14, 2008)

We have an outback 5th wheel toy hauler and love it. The garage is a bit small but its a lot lighter then our friends toy hauler. They have one of the bigger cyclones. Its a lot heavier then our outback but its very nice inside. Cost about twice what we paid for the outback from lakeshore though. I have a 2500 V10 and he has a 2500 diesel. We both pull and handle the weight of the 5th wheelers pretty good. I know he wants to upgrade to a 350/3500 and we were thinking of that too (mostly to a diesel for better mpg)

They have airbags and some suspension work in the back to handle the heavy pig of a hauler they have









We have just some beefed up springs and are nice and level.


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> They are nose heavy empty. The nose gets lighter as you pack things in the garage. The entire garage is behind the axles. Will a full max load your hitch weight will stay the same at 2500 or will be slightly less. If the liquid tanks are more towards the rear the hitch could easilly go to 2000.
> 
> Carey


I have a hard time believing they will not get more nose heavy, even with quads or something loaded in the rear.

From experience with a loaded fiver, my hitch weight is a lot heavier than dry weights, just because all the compartment storage is in the front, and the propane tanks are both up front.

Yes, loaded in the rear may offset some weight, but all your other camping equipment is still getting loaded into the compartments in front of the axles.....


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