# Added 6 Volt Batteries...no Power!



## norseman (Nov 18, 2009)

So, I added some 6 volts that were on my old trailer to my 2010 210RS I just picked up. I reversed the polarity for about 5 minutes, realized that in the Outback world, black is positive!!!!! Stupid....anyways, I digress. I switched it to the proper alignment, and now there is no juice coming from the batteries....I checked the fuse that is supposed to deal with this and it's not blown...any thought?


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

You have the batteries wired correctly? Are you getting 12v off combined batteries?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

If you reversed the batteries then there is a 100% chance that you blew the 40 amp reverse polarity fuses. Other then that one of your thermal auto reset breakers could have failed.


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## Leedek (Nov 28, 2010)

Oregon_Camper said:


> You have the batteries wired correctly? Are you getting 12v off combined batteries?


I bow to the guru of parallel and series connection diagrams.







Outstanding Oregon Camper... OUTSTANDING! A kewpie doll for you.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Leedek said:


> You have the batteries wired correctly? Are you getting 12v off combined batteries?


I bow to the guru of parallel and series connection diagrams.







Outstanding Oregon Camper... OUTSTANDING! A kewpie doll for you.








[/quote]

While I'd love to take the credit, but I have to confess, I used the image from a great web site called "The 12 Volt Side Of Life"


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## norseman (Nov 18, 2009)

What is a thermal auto reset breakers and where are they? The 40 amp fuses haven't blown...

Thanks


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

The thermal breakers are the red thingies mounted to the frame near the batteries. I would expect the 40 amp reverse polarity fuses at the converter to be blown as well.


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## hoodscoop (Mar 29, 2012)

While we're on the subject, and if it's OK with the original "poster",` might I ask ........ I know that two 6 volt batteries are better than one 12 volt battery for longevity, is two 12 volts better than two 6 volt batteries? Getting ready to do our first dry camping in 2013.


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## norseman (Nov 18, 2009)

Insomniak said:


> The thermal breakers are the red thingies mounted to the frame near the batteries. I would expect the 40 amp reverse polarity fuses at the converter to be blown as well.


The 40 amp fuses are NOT blown. That's the first thing I checked. Assuming that they are the 40amp fuses that are in the fuse/breaker panel and not hiding somewhere else. I guess I'll have to swap out the thermal breakers. Are the the ones that look like Lego pieces? They have plastic covers on them. One is red and the other is orange. Should I replace them both?


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## Bill & Kate (Apr 28, 2012)

Depending on what brand and model converter you have, there could be addition fuses on the converter itself. On my last trailer the "reverse polarity" fuses were plugged into the back of the converter - and were a bugger to get to. The O&M for our current trailer's converter shows similar automotive type plug fuses in the back, too


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## norseman (Nov 18, 2009)

Bill & Kate said:


> Depending on what brand and model converter you have, there could be addition fuses on the converter itself. On my last trailer the "reverse polarity" fuses were plugged into the back of the converter - and were a bugger to get to. The O&M for our current trailer's converter shows similar automotive type plug fuses in the back, too


Got it! It was the thermo-nuclear auto reset jobbie....the red one. I bypassed the fuse with a piece of wire and whammo it worked, so i'll pick up a new one of those and off to the races I go.

Thanks for all the help!


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

norseman said:


> Depending on what brand and model converter you have, there could be addition fuses on the converter itself. On my last trailer the "reverse polarity" fuses were plugged into the back of the converter - and were a bugger to get to. The O&M for our current trailer's converter shows similar automotive type plug fuses in the back, too


Got it! It was the thermo-nuclear auto reset jobbie....the red one. I bypassed the fuse with a piece of wire and whammo it worked, so i'll pick up a new one of those and off to the races I go.

Thanks for all the help!
[/quote]

Look at the one that failed it could be 30, 40 or 50 amp. Replace with the correct size. DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN THE POST. If when replacing the breaker you over tighten the post it can shear off internally as it spins the post. Since the 40 amp fuse did not blow I will say that during your battery change you damaged the thermal breaker by stressing the battery positive wire to the breaker.


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## W4DRR (May 17, 2005)

CamperAndy said:


> Since the 40 amp fuse did not blow I will say that during your battery change you damaged the thermal breaker by stressing the battery positive wire to the breaker.


Yes, the laws of physics would pretty much demand that the thermal breaker was defective, and by being such, the 40A fuses were protected.

Bob


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

hoodscoop said:


> While we're on the subject, and if it's OK with the original "poster",` might I ask ........ I know that two 6 volt batteries are better than one 12 volt battery for longevity, is two 12 volts better than two 6 volt batteries? Getting ready to do our first dry camping in 2013.


2x12v batteries will not provide more amps then 2x6v batteries, as the 6v batteries are deep cycle batteries and carry more power. I know it doesn't pass the "What the Heck?" test, but it is true.

If you are only camping a few days...long weekend...then 2x12v will be perfect.

For our family we dry camp for 7-10 days and my 2x6v Trojan battery setup will work without needing a charge. Note, we do a great job of conserving power, but it is good to know we can make it that long with needing a recharge.


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## Leedek (Nov 28, 2010)

norseman said:


> Got it! It was the thermo-nuclear auto reset jobbie....the red one. I bypassed the fuse with a piece of wire and whammo it worked, so i'll pick up a new one of those and off to the races I go.
> 
> Thanks for all the help!


So Norseman are you any relation to Montgomery "*Scotty*" Scott, the a Scottish engineer in the *Star Trek *series? (Say that fast five times.)







He could fix the *Antigrav Thrusters* by using a piece of wire to bypass the whole system. (I often wondered why they have antigrav thrusters if a wire could be used and functionality remained.)

*Scotty Quote* for this post:

"A good engineer is always a wee bit conservative, at least on paper. Just bypass the secondary cut-off valve and boost the flow. It'll work."









Whammo.... in deed!!


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## BrandonMH (Dec 5, 2012)

I was just talking to my neighbor about wiring two batteries together to see if he knew. Also, off hand, I am not sure if the one I do have that works is 6v or 12v, I thought 12v deep cycle, but not sure now. Thanks for the diagram, will pass it on to the neighbor since he has a perm trailer at Promised Land here in Pa.


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## hoodscoop (Mar 29, 2012)

Oregon_Camper said:


> While we're on the subject, and if it's OK with the original "poster",` might I ask ........ I know that two 6 volt batteries are better than one 12 volt battery for longevity, is two 12 volts better than two 6 volt batteries? Getting ready to do our first dry camping in 2013.


2x12v batteries will not provide more amps then 2x6v batteries, as the 6v batteries are deep cycle batteries and carry more power. I know it doesn't pass the "What the Heck?" test, but it is true.

If you are only camping a few days...long weekend...then 2x12v will be perfect.

For our family we dry camp for 7-10 days and my 2x6v Trojan battery setup will work without needing a charge. Note, we do a great job of conserving power, but it is good to know we can make it that long with needing a recharge.
[/quote]

I want to be real clear here. Sounds like your saying that two 6v are better because they are "deep cycle". Can I get 12v in deep cycle? If yes, than would 2x12v be best. I plan to start from scratch and want to install the best possible with the most longevity. Finally, is something to be gained with 4x6v or 4x12v. P.S. I have not priced this out yet so it might be cost prohibitive.


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## KTMRacer (Jun 28, 2010)

hoodscoop said:


> While we're on the subject, and if it's OK with the original "poster",` might I ask ........ I know that two 6 volt batteries are better than one 12 volt battery for longevity, is two 12 volts better than two 6 volt batteries? Getting ready to do our first dry camping in 2013.


It's a "it depends" situation. If your current draw is low, that is no inverter running a microwave, hairdryer etc. just running a few lights, pump etc. then 6V golf carts have definite advantages. If you want/need lots of current for things like a microwave or hairdryer or coffee pot, then 12V have a big advantage. Golf carts are designed for long life and deep discharge and a tradeoff is that they don't do well under high current (>about 75A) and also have more internal voltage drop than 12V batteries even a true deep discharge 12V. And with 2 12V batteries, under high current each supplies 1/2 the current draw. With 2 Golf carts EACH battery must supply the total current draw.

So look at your typical use and decide which is better. If you only dry camp a few times/year for a few days at a time 12V may win out based on cost. With reasonable care on what is turned on, you should be able to go 2 days with a pair of good 12V. The exception may be in the fall/winter if you need to run the furnace a lot. batteries also loose capacity at low temperature and a furnace usually draws 8-12A when running. It can add up in a hurry.

Lots of dry camping for long times GC win hands down if you typically don't have high current. If you want to camp many days and high current, well, then the decision becomes tuffer.

Also, good 6V batteries can be drawn down to 30% of capacity hundreds of times without any loss of capacity. Even very good 12V shouldn't go below 50% of capacity.
So if you look at "useable AH", a pair of typical 6V golf carts have 240AH x 0.7= 168AH. A pair of 12V vary from about 85AH to 110AH each. so you get say 220AH x 0.5= 110 useable AH. so the golf carts will give you 50% more useable capacity.

And 6V can have very long life. I have a pair of Trojan T-125's that are just now 8 years old. They are cycled to 50%-70% discharged about 30 times/year. I just this week did a check on them. Specific gravity is the same as new, and the pass a load test very well, and best I can tell the AH capacity is within 10% of new. It's hard to get 12V to last that long.

I've just switch our outback to4 golf carts from 2 and I do run a 1000W inverter for the microwave and hairdryer and TV etc, but with 4 golf carts battery current draw is ok with a 1000W inverter for the length of time I run them (<5 minutes at a time). I'm sold on GC for OUR application. but we dry camps lots every year for 5+ days at a time.


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## KTMRacer (Jun 28, 2010)

hoodscoop said:


> While we're on the subject, and if it's OK with the original "poster",` might I ask ........ I know that two 6 volt batteries are better than one 12 volt battery for longevity, is two 12 volts better than two 6 volt batteries? Getting ready to do our first dry camping in 2013.


2x12v batteries will not provide more amps then 2x6v batteries, as the 6v batteries are deep cycle batteries and carry more power. I know it doesn't pass the "What the Heck?" test, but it is true.

If you are only camping a few days...long weekend...then 2x12v will be perfect.

For our family we dry camp for 7-10 days and my 2x6v Trojan battery setup will work without needing a charge. Note, we do a great job of conserving power, but it is good to know we can make it that long with needing a recharge.
[/quote]

I want to be real clear here. Sounds like your saying that two 6v are better because they are "deep cycle". Can I get 12v in deep cycle? If yes, than would 2x12v be best. I plan to start from scratch and want to install the best possible with the most longevity. Finally, is something to be gained with 4x6v or 4x12v. P.S. I have not priced this out yet so it might be cost prohibitive.
[/quote]

you can get deep cycle 12V. Trojan makes them, but they are spendy. Most 12V's in the store are a combination starting/deep discharge battery and won't last as long as a true deep discharge. These will work fine for many users. Trojan 6V Golf cart T-12's (240AH) right now are running $160-200 EACH in our local area + $30 core deposit. Running more (4) will give you more than double the run time of 2. That's because AH is a function of current drain. The lower the drain the more total AH you get. For example, a 6V golf cart AH varies between about 200AH at higher current draw (40A) to 240AH at 12A draw to 266AH at very low (2.6A) current draw. But if going with 4 make sure you can find a way to mount them and be careful of tongue weight. 4 GC will weigh in at about 270lbs and that is almost all going directly on the tongue. And finally it will take more than 2 or 4 12V to give you the same AH as 2 or 4 Golf carts. Three big 12V is about equal in useable AH to two 6V.

I'm also sold on GC for our typical use which doesn't include much high current draw. When we go camping with others who have two 12V batteries, they tend to have to be much more careful on battery use than us to not run down there batteries.


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## hoodscoop (Mar 29, 2012)

WOW!, what an incredible amount of critical information. How does one learn all that stuff? Anyway, it sounds like 2x6v golf cart barreries will be the best application for us. I will call my buddy, the "Pro", at our local golf course and see about the best place to purchase the batteries. Might even be able to get a couple cores from him. Finally, I will print this information out for future use. P.S. Unless you answer back, I will assume that I do not need to make any other modifications to my system just making sure I hook the batteries up correctly. Thanks again, just awsome.


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## KTMRacer (Jun 28, 2010)

hoodscoop said:


> WOW!, what an incredible amount of critical information. How does one learn all that stuff? Anyway, it sounds like 2x6v golf cart barreries will be the best application for us. I will call my buddy, the "Pro", at our local golf course and see about the best place to purchase the batteries. Might even be able to get a couple cores from him. Finally, I will print this information out for future use. P.S. Unless you answer back, I will assume that I do not need to make any other modifications to my system just making sure I hook the batteries up correctly. Thanks again, just awsome.


you really don't need to make any mods, but there are a few things I'd check.

1) The wire from the battery to ground is often tied to the frame with a self tapping screw. Often not real tight. I'd use a grinder or sandpaper to make sure it has good connection to the frame and the bolt is tight.
2) They usually use a standard insulated crimp on connector for the wires to the battery. Often not real secure either. check it. replace if necessary

If you have the tools or a buddy or a nice welding shop, I'd think about having some #4 welding cable made up with crimped on lugs to connect to the battery and ground and the battery to the breaker that you'll find on the frame and breaker to the cutoff switch if you have one.

To crimp welding cable you need a hydraulic crimper. You can do the crimp yourself on #4 with proper lugs and a hydraulic crimper that Harbor freight sells. About #40 IIRC and it will also do a good crimp on #8 or 10 stranded wire, which is probably the wire they use from the factory for battery connections.

And to connect up the batteries, again if you have the tools or can find someone to do it, have the jumper wire for the golf cart batteries made up of #4 welding cable. #4 welding cable is very common and often sold by the foot. Welding cable is very flexible and easy to work with and has a 600V rating with nice thick insulation.

And as to battery brands, I'm partial to Trojan, they are very long lasting and take lots of abuse. They are rated for something like 1500 cycles to 50% discharge. However, we dry camp a lot, and camp close to 80 days/year, so batteries get a good workout and I need good ones. If you aren't going to dry camp real often, check around, Decka, Costco, Sams club and others sell golf carts that seem to have good reviews as well and way lower initial price than trojans. Your golf cart buddy may be able to give you some ideas on what to buy based on your use.

There are commonly 3 AH sizes for Golf Carts, The T-105 or equal at about 220AH, the T-125 at about 245AH and the T-145 at 260AH. I'd recomend not getting the T-145 or equivalent. Way more expensive and they are pushing the envelop for AH and don't seem to take abuse as well as the others. It's a toss up between the other two AH, it's a cost vs. AH tradeoff. The 245AH cost about $20 more than the 220AH.


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## Bill & Kate (Apr 28, 2012)

I picked up one of these crimpers that you use with either a hammer or put in a vise. It seems to work very nicely, and was economical.

Crimping tool


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## KTMRacer (Jun 28, 2010)

Bill & Kate said:


> I picked up one of these crimpers that you use with either a hammer or put in a vise. It seems to work very nicely, and was economical.
> 
> Crimping tool


I have one of the crimpers in your link. It is a good alternative to a hydraulic crimper for smaller wire sizes. Works fine on #4. I found a few hammer blows followed by a vise works best.

I prefer a hydraulic hex crimper for it's consistency, but the manual one does do a good job up through about #2 wire.


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