# Wdh Issue



## ZoccNY (Jan 11, 2009)

I'd like to know your thoughts on this issue I ran into. This is the hitch I have on the 23KRS...

http://www.blueox.us/Hitches/swaypro.htm

Last trip of the year, as I was hooking up I noticed the bolts that hold the hitch saddles onto the OB were BENT. One was not so bad, slightly tweaked. The other was bent pretty good. I'm pretty good about going over everything on the TV and camper when traveling, and don't know HOW I would've missed this. One of the saddles ended up being a little warped, and the bolts were replaced to get me through the trip.

Now, the bolts that hold the saddles onto the tongue just get torqued directly onto the beam. Could it be that the bolts loosened up which caused them to bend? Is it a result of a deficiency in the hitch itself? I suppose I could be overloading the tongue weight, but I couldn't be sure since I've never put the rig on scales. I really don't think I am though.

I'm ordering new saddles and bolts. Anybody have thoughts as to how/why this occured?


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

ZoccNY said:


> I'd like to know your thoughts on this issue I ran into. This is the hitch I have on the 23KRS...
> 
> http://www.blueox.us/Hitches/swaypro.htm
> 
> ...


 I have been using the BlueOx Sway Pro for about 2 years now towing my 31RQS. I don't have any issue like your describing at all. As a matter of fact I went out to Iowa from NH in October and returned in November putting about 3400 miles on the hitch with the camper fully loaded both ways. No issues.

There has to be tremendous downward force on the WD Bars (I think) for this to happen. Can you describe the manner in which you connect your hitch?

Eric


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## ZoccNY (Jan 11, 2009)

I lower the tongue of the trailer onto the ball, putting SOME weight on the truck. Then I run usually 4 links into the saddle, and roll it up using the breaker(?) bar. I try to make sure I dont have to really crank on it in order to get it rolled up. If it's too much effort, I put a little more/less weight on the ball so that I can roll it easier. (Hopefully I described it effectively)


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Okay, I understand what you are saying. It doesn't sound like you are putting too much weight on the WD Bars at all.

When I hitch up, I lower the tongue onto the ball, lock the tongue, and then using the tongue jack raise the hitch until the WD bars are nearly level with the frame. I count 4 full links, putting the fourth into the tensioner and lock the tensioner in place, both sides.

I then lower the jack taking the weight off the tongue jack, connect chains, E-Cord and off I go.

My Hitch head is adjusted such that with no weight on the ball, (not connected to the trailer) and the WD Bars installed, there is a distinct downward angle, front to rear, on those bars.

So when hooked up, there is a great deal of downward force on those saddles, WD Bars, and tensioners.

You may find that you need to adjust the Hitch Head Angle, and/or Hitch Head Height.

To find out if this is the case you can follw these steps to give you a rough idea of how your sitting.

With the camper on level ground, front to back, measure the distance from the bottom of the tongue to the ground.

The measurement from the ground to the base of the ball on your hitch should be close to the measurement from the ground to the bottom of the tongue of your camper (disconnected and level).

If it isn't, look at the bolt holes on your hitch and determine if you can make up the distance by moving the head up or down. You may find that these adjustments would be too great and the need for a head tilt adjustment is needed.

With nothing connected, measure the distance from your tow vehicle from bumper, front and back, to the ground. Save these measurements.

With your camper hitched the way you normally do, take these measurements again. The distance from your bumpers to ground will have changed BUT they should be proportional to your first measurements, and ideally you want to have the camper be level or a little nose down while hitched.

In Example

TV No Load
Rear to ground 23"
Front to Ground 18"

TV Camper hitched
Rear to ground 21"
Front to Ground 16"

Camper tongue unhitched 15"
Camper tongue hitched 13"

This shows a 2" drop over all. And is for demonstration purposes only. Suspension type, weight of vehicle etc all are factors. But the proportional number will help to tell you how well you are set up. AND the chances of having exactly the same amount of drop or lift are probably pretty small. You are looking for a balance.

If your rear bumper drops and the front doesn't or does very little, the angle of your head is too shallow to the rear. dipping the angle creates more force, and pushes the weight further forward on your tow vehicle.

If your front drops and the rear stays the same, you have too much downward angle on your hitch head, or you can say that your weight is shifted too far forward.

You may be able to correct this with adding or subtracting a link at the tensioner. Or you may need to change the hitch head angle.

Loosening the hitch head bolts, and using the knurled head angle adjust screw or head angle adjustment bolt (What-Have-You) make minor adjustments to dial the measurements in. Retighten the hitch head after each adjustment prior to rehitching.

This can take some time, but the effort translates to a much better towing experience, less wear on your hitch components, Tow Vehicle tires and improves handling.

This adjustment may correct the problem your having, and I hope your find that there is an adjustment that needs to be made.

Your Blue Ox hitch is a brute and should not be failing the way you are describing.

I have the BWX1000, which model do you have?

Eric


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## ZoccNY (Jan 11, 2009)

(printed and saved) Thank you Eric! When the snow thaws (sometime in June...







) this will be first on my "to-do" list. I have the BXW1000 as well, and really was suprised that this happened. Your input is definitely appreciated, and I was afraid I was going to have to upgrade my hitch. Hopefully, readjustments on the hitch will settle this for me.

When I get the new saddles and bolts, I was going to use some blue Loctite on the threads. Good/bad idea? Couldn't hurt, I figure.


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## Jewellfamily (Sep 25, 2010)

ZoccNY said:


> (printed and saved) Thank you Eric! When the snow thaws (sometime in June...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your bracket bolts coming loose would probably damage the bolts. The Blue Ox hitch has the ring that steel ring that goes around the chain on the hitch bracket. Is it possible you got into some tight maneuvering, uneven ground, trying to back in somewhere with your WDH still hooked up and it bound up at a weird angle and tweaked it? I usually unhook my bars before backing into a spot to keep my chains from popping and banging but dont have the steel ring on mine that wrap around the chain at the hitch brackets.

The 1000 pound bars should be plenty for your unit.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Jewellfamily said:


> (printed and saved) Thank you Eric! When the snow thaws (sometime in June...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your bracket bolts coming loose would probably damage the bolts. The Blue Ox hitch has the ring that steel ring that goes around the chain on the hitch bracket. Is it possible you got into some tight maneuvering, uneven ground, trying to back in somewhere with your WDH still hooked up and it bound up at a weird angle and tweaked it? I usually unhook my bars before backing into a spot to keep my chains from popping and banging but dont have the steel ring on mine that wrap around the chain at the hitch brackets.

The 1000 pound bars should be plenty for your unit.
[/quote]

That is a possibility too but I don't think that would do it.

My wife decided to attend an Outbackers Rally while I was working an Outage at the Plant. She nearly jack knifed the trailer while trying to manuever into a spot (This is a whole other story...!)

The "Saddles," Torsioners everything was fine..except the hitch head. She managed to bend the hitch head approximately 15 degrees to the right as your looking at it from the rear. Those bars, saddles, and keepers are no joke. The hitch head bent first.

So I tend to believe this could be an under or over adjustment issue. 30 minutes of work checking measurements will help to either prove or dis-prove.

Of course there is also the chance that you are right as well. We'll have to see what ZoccNY has to say about connected or disconnected while backing, and how tight. There are many hitches that do not respond well to being connected up tight and having the tow vehicle make acute turns! Seen it!! Been there! PAID for that T shirt!

Eric


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Regarding the use of loctite, don't let it replace proper torquing of the bolts. It will help prevent loosening of the bolts, but they need to be properly torqued to hold the joint in compression because thee bolts themselves won't be strong enough in shear.


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

another thing to consider is the weight rating of the WD bars. i would suggest that you are using bars that are too stiff for the suspension of the truck you are towing with. now, this can be a controversial topic in the towing world, but i am a convert to this line of thinking, have used many different setups, and can feel the difference.

the argument centers around the fact that hitch manufacturers tell you want WD bar you should use solely based on what your hitch weight is. you look that their charts and based on ranges of hitch weights, and they have their recommendations. but these charts do not in any way take into consideration what your tow vehicle is. if you are towing the same trailer with an SUV or a HD pickup, the rear suspension between the two vehicles are very different (especially if you have the FX4 option on your F250). stiffer suspensions (HD truck, leaf spring rear suspension trucks) = lower rated WD bars. softer suspensions = higher WD rating bars (SUV's and coil spring rear suspension trucks). the force has to go somewhere from the weight distribution bars. they are distributing weight, but not all the force goes to weight distribution. some of the remaining force goes to the flexing of the bars, and the rest goes to the A frame on the trailer. if too much went to the A frame, the A frame will bend. if the A frame is strong enough to resist bending, then the hitch parts will begin to fail. if you crank up the hitch connection points, and the A frame holds and the hitch components hold, then the force will continue on to the trailer and shake it apart over time. there have been many cases of A/C units shaking loose, skylights in bathrooms leaking, cracks in fiberglass, etc that can we traced to a hitch connection that was too stiff. now, these things fail for other reasons as well, don't get me wrong. i am not suggesting that these failures are always from a hitch connection issue. i am saying that they can be.

also, with any hitch that uses integrated sway control with the WD bar setup, like my reese dual cam, proper flex in the WD bar is critical to sway control performance. bars that are too stiff do not stay seated well in the cams of the dual cam. i am not super familiar with the blue ox, but this is something to consider as well. with my F350, i use a 12,000 / 1200 lb rated reese htich head, and 600lb WD bars. now my hitch weight fully loaded (and non distributed) is about 1050lbs on any given trip. but the heavy duty F350 suspension (i have the FX4) is way too stiff for 1000lb or 1200lb bars. i own both, and the trailer tows like crap with them and the sway control is not that great. i went to 800lb bars and got a ton more performance, and was not gonna spend any more money. then i got a 600lb set of bars for free, and man, what a difference. those are the smallest bars that will fit the 12000 / 1200 hitch head. so you need the rating of the hitch head to be high enough, but not the bars. size the bars to your tow vehicle. with the reese it is easy to do that, but i am not sure about the blue ox.

now, like i said, this flies in the face of conventional wisdom and manufacturers recommendations. it is blasphemy in most circles. but think about it, if you towed your trailer with an explorer or expedition or a peterbuilt semi, would you use the same bars for each setup ? an extreme example of course, but to make a point. really, in my setup at least, i don't need weight distribution bars to distribute weight. i have plenty of payload to spare, plenty of wheelbase, and a PSD over the front axle. i certainly don't need to move any weight back to the trailer axles, either. i need the WD setup to solidify the hitch connection and create sway control.

some links to check out:

http://www.inlandrv.com/articles/hitch-torsion-bar-story.html
http://www.inlandrv.com/articles/towing_myths.pdf
http://home.hiwaay.net/~tomorkim/Reese.htm


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

willingtonpaul said:


> another thing to consider is the weight rating of the WD bars. i would suggest that you are using bars that are too stiff for the suspension of the truck you are towing with. now, this can be a controversial topic in the towing world, but i am a convert to this line of thinking, have used many different setups, and can feel the difference.
> 
> the argument centers around the fact that hitch manufacturers tell you want WD bar you should use solely based on what your hitch weight is. you look that their charts and based on ranges of hitch weights, and they have their recommendations. but these charts do not in any way take into consideration what your tow vehicle is. if you are towing the same trailer with an SUV or a HD pickup, the rear suspension between the two vehicles are very different (especially if you have the FX4 option on your F250). stiffer suspensions (HD truck, leaf spring rear suspension trucks) = lower rated WD bars. softer suspensions = higher WD rating bars (SUV's and coil spring rear suspension trucks). the force has to go somewhere from the weight distribution bars. they are distributing weight, but not all the force goes to weight distribution. some of the remaining force goes to the flexing of the bars, and the rest goes to the A frame on the trailer. if too much went to the A frame, the A frame will bend. if the A frame is strong enough to resist bending, then the hitch parts will begin to fail. if you crank up the hitch connection points, and the A frame holds and the hitch components hold, then the force will continue on to the trailer and shake it apart over time. there have been many cases of A/C units shaking loose, skylights in bathrooms leaking, cracks in fiberglass, etc that can we traced to a hitch connection that was too stiff. now, these things fail for other reasons as well, don't get me wrong. i am not suggesting that these failures are always from a hitch connection issue. i am saying that they can be.
> 
> ...


Paul, I am not sure if you have seen the Blue Ox up close or not. It is different from some of the more standard WDH I am familiar with. The Blue Ox WD bars do not flex like other WDH Bars. Husky, Equalizer, and other trunnion style bars have a good deal of flex. But these are about 1 1/4 inch round solid steel and though there may be some movement on them it is very little.

I have the same set up as the Original Poster, have had Valley, and Husky hitches. Those bars have visible flex when tensioned and while being used while towing.

Eric


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

I have the Blue Ox sway pro 1000 also and have it setup like egregg with no problems or bending parts


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## ZoccNY (Jan 11, 2009)

Well, it appears my lack of experience/knowledge is gonna show through here. I guess I never considered disconnecting the sway bars while backing in and parking. I've done it on occasion, but more like 8 out of 10 times I don't. UGGHHH... could be possibly that simple. Now I'm starting to feel like a total boob...

I will not use Loctite in place of properly torquing the bolts. Thanks for the reminder!

Thanks Paul for the additional info/links. I've certainly got some trouble shooting ahead of me. Thankfully I've got about 4 months to research this.

Strangely enough, the dealer hasn't given me NEARLY this much helpful information.


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## Jewellfamily (Sep 25, 2010)

ZoccNY said:


> Well, it appears my lack of experience/knowledge is gonna show through here. I guess I never considered disconnecting the sway bars while backing in and parking. I've done it on occasion, but more like 8 out of 10 times I don't. UGGHHH... could be possibly that simple. Now I'm starting to feel like a total boob...
> 
> I will not use Loctite in place of properly torquing the bolts. Thanks for the reminder!
> 
> ...


The hitch literature probably wont say to unhook when backing and maneuvering. I do it because I don't like how it behaves while I'm maneuvering.


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

ZoccNY said:


> Well, it appears my lack of experience/knowledge is gonna show through here. I guess I never considered disconnecting the sway bars while backing in and parking. I've done it on occasion, but more like 8 out of 10 times I don't. UGGHHH... could be possibly that simple. Now I'm starting to feel like a total boob...
> 
> I will not use Loctite in place of properly torquing the bolts. Thanks for the reminder!
> 
> ...


I dont unhook my bars when I back in. I'm sort of at a loss as to why your equipment would bend. You shouldnt have to remove the bars unless you want to. I know with other brands there is a separate sway bar and that must be removed first but not with the Blue Ox. I would call them and ask why these parts would fail. Besides the parts should be under warranty, especially if the dealer did the install.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Well I shredded one of the snap up brackets on my Dual cam when I pulled through a parking lot where I ended up having exit it onto a street that was maybe 3 feet lower then the parking lot. Once the truck was on the street and the trailer was still in the parking lot the angle of attack between the truck and trailer were too much for one of the brackets to handle and it pulled it right off the A frame. Now had the street maybe only been 2 feet lower it could have resulted in just bending the bolts.

I suspect you did this when you exited a gas station or other lot that was raised above street level.

Here is what mine looked like!


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

Andy,

Interesting choice of tools used to help display your broken hitch parts. Are you sure it was the elevation difference between the driveway and street that were the problem?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

thefulminator said:


> Andy,
> 
> Interesting choice of tools used to help display your broken hitch parts. Are you sure it was the elevation difference between the driveway and street that were the problem?


That was for opening the medicine bottles post repair.


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

[/quote]Paul, I am not sure if you have seen the Blue Ox up close or not. 
[/quote]

no, i have not. in looking at the online pics, it is different than the reese to be sure. 
just trying to offer some "outside of the box" thinking; i do think that it is easy to be over hitched when pulling with a HD pickup.

good luck with the setup tweaking, ZoccNY.


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## ZoccNY (Jan 11, 2009)

Paul, I understand what you're saying about being "overhitched". My original TV was a Chevy 1500, and I picked up the F250 last spring, so what you brought up certainly makes sense. I didn't have the hitch issue until this season. I'm wondering if the following has any importance:

When the TV/RV are turning (think from a stop sign, making a tight left or right hander) I hear creaks and pops from time to time. I assumed this was the chains shifting/moving in the bracket. I'm wondering now if this could be that the whole setup was too stiff? Also, should I be taking a link out of the chain when I set up? (ie, instead of runnig 4 liks through, should I be running only 3?) But, I'm sure this will cause the rear of the truck to squat a little bit.

Andy, I don't recall any major elevation changes which would've caused this, but do you think rough terrain/rough roads could cause the same result? I'm not off-roading with the rig, but one of the tracks I go to has a "driveway" that is bumpy and pitted, and has a steep(ish) incline on the way in. I'm usually 5-10mph through there...

This whole thing is rather perplexing...







I won't have any resolution to this for a couple months, since the OB is tucked away for the winter, and I'm NOT doing any maintanence in the winter







But keep the ideas coming.


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## ZoccNY (Jan 11, 2009)

CamperAndy said:


> Andy,
> 
> Interesting choice of tools used to help display your broken hitch parts. Are you sure it was the elevation difference between the driveway and street that were the problem?


That was for opening the medicine bottles post repair.
[/quote]

Y'know, the pharmacy has E-Z off caps that the elderly is quite fond of...


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Rough roads could be the cause. Slow speed will help but when mine ripped off I was going maybe 2 mph.


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