# Tt Length Vs Tv Wheelbase



## LateralG (Feb 11, 2006)

Who tows more than 21' with Wheelbase less than 115"?

... And do you recommend it? (this question is for those who do.)


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

LateralG said:


> Who tows more than 21' with Wheelbase less than 115"?
> 
> ... And do you recommend it? (this question is for those who do.)
> [snapback]81079[/snapback]​


Gary as I said earlier, we were going to, but decided against it.

Check out this website http://www.rvtowingtips.com

It is full of information. Be sure to check out the story behind the web site. The towing calculator is great. You can take you axle weights off of the door and plug them in. This is the same sheet that helped me decide aginst towing with the Explorer. It also talked me out of trying to tow a 5er that I really wanted. I was within my limits on my 3/4 ton, but when I looked at the stress on the front axles, I changed my mind.

Again, I am not telling you not to tow with the Mountaineer. I would suggest that you explore the Hensley option and I am not sure how the 3.55 rear will fare in the mountains.

Actually, do a search for Explorer. One of our members was in a terrible crash with his Explorer and I think a 21RS.

Good Luck!

Tim









On edit: Here is the link to Kevin's post http://www.outbackers.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=925&hl=


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## LateralG (Feb 11, 2006)

Tim,

Excellent info; I'll spend the afternoon reading it. Thanks.

Two thoughts that keep nagging me:
1) There are some members who apparntly are towing 23' & up with shorter, less powerful, TVs than mine.
2) The apparent inconsistency in the following:

_"The second guideline:

The distance from the coupler to the rear trailer axle should be no more than twice the wheelbase of the tow vehicle.

Remember, the above length is from the coupler to the rear axle of the trailer. It is NOT the total length of the trailer as in the first guideline.

The next thing to look at is how far the coupler is from the trailer tires? The greater the distance, the lesser the impact it will have on the tow vehicle and the less sway it could create. You will see travel trailers of the same overall length with the axles in different locations. This is probably due to the floor plan or layout of the trailer in order to balance the overall trailer, as well as to provide enough, but not too much, tongue weight."

_







The first two paragraphs suggest that coupler-to-axle distance should be minimized.
The last paragraph suggests that coupler-to-axle distance should be maximized.

I'm not interested in starting a debate. I'm seeking as many facts as possible before making a purchase decision. I don't like expensive regrets. I'm presently torn between two TTs of equivalent weight, but three feet difference in length. (Outback 21RS, and Zeppelin Z241) The Zeppelin actually lists as 150# less.


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

LateralG said:


> Tim,
> 
> Excellent info; I'll spend the afternoon reading it. Thanks.
> 
> ...


I think what the second paragraph is saying that the further back the wheels are set from the coupler, the less impact on sway. I think........I am an Economist, not an Engineer. Maybe that is my problem







.

We are here to talk through these things. There are definately people here who pull larger units with less powerful rigs. I am using my experience towing my 24' boat and my old 16' Sunline TT with the Explorer.

You seem a lot like myself. I just cleaned off my desktop from all of the weight calculator spreadsheets that I looked at over and over before deciding to upgrade top the 28RSDS. We looked at 15 different fifth wheels before deciding that my 3/4 ton just was not going to do it. I never thought I was going to be under trucked again........ shy. Guess I called that one wrong.

I know there were a couple others who have towed with the Explorer/Mountaineer platform as well as some Runners......

You will definately find opinions, but no flames here.

Happy Outbacking!

Tim


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

> The first two paragraphs suggest that coupler-to-axle distance should be minimized.
> The last paragraph suggests that coupler-to-axle distance should be maximized.


I think the first paragraph is not saying the distance should be minimized, just not more than twice the wheelbase of the tow vehicle. The second is saying while the distance should not exceed what is recommended in the first paragraph, it should still be as great a distance as possible.

Please take a look at the link Highlander put at the bottom of his post, appears Kip was towing with the same setup you are looking at. Considering the short wheelbase of your truck and you want to take some longer trips you might want to look into a hensley arrow hitch.

When it all comes down to it, you want as much vehicle and the best hitch setup possible so if you get into a bad situation the odds are more in your favor. Been there done that and almost lost it with too long of a trailer for our truck.

Mike


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## shake1969 (Sep 21, 2004)

I tow with a Gator, 118.8" wheel base. It's a 4X4, tall in the air with air ride. Got a set of 16" Michelin All Weather Radials pumped up to 60psi. The little 21 still walks me around some. Especially in a cross wind, even with the sway bar. Sway is NOT cool.

I towed with an Expedition first. It was a RWD, smaller V8, tall gears in the rear end, 15" rims. It was scary, to me. That's why I opted for the Gator.

Personally, I wouldn't begin to tow even a 21 with an Explorer or similar. The TV is just too small, I think. Just my opinion.

Hope it works out for you.


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## LateralG (Feb 11, 2006)

Here's a sticky one:

Which would you rather pull with my Mountaineer:

X) Outback 21RS with an Equal-i-zer (sp?) or Reese dual-cam.
Y) Keystone Zeppelin Z241 (150# less dry wgt. and 3' longer) with Hensley Arrow.

Why these options? This will be our first TT, so need to keep financial risk at an acceptable level. It's possible we won't like trailer camping, and have to sell the TT & associated gear.

The price difference between the new 21RS and the used Zeppelin would buy the Hensley.

Everyone has been patient, helpful, and apparently objective. Please continue.

Gary S.


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

LateralG said:


> Here's a sticky one:
> 
> Which would you rather pull with my Mountaineer:
> 
> ...


You say there is only 150 pound weight difference.
take that with a grain of salt as you'll never know the true weight without putting it on a scale.
actual trailer could be 1000 pounds heavier than the sticker indicates.

The listed Outback weights all got heavier in 2006 as they started listing them a little closer to reality.


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

For me that's almost a wash -- length vs. weight. How bad do you want the bunks? Have you looked at the Z242? It has similar specs to the 241 but with bunks and the fold up couch / bed combo. If you go the Zep route, make sure you get the new frames instead of the Norco aluminum one. It hasn't been an issue with sub 30 foot models but you want to be safe.


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## LateralG (Feb 11, 2006)

campmg said:


> For me that's almost a wash -- length vs. weight. How bad do you want the bunks? Have you looked at the Z242? It has similar specs to the 241 but with bunks and the fold up couch / bed combo. If you go the Zep route, make sure you get the new frames instead of the Norco aluminum one. It hasn't been an issue with sub 30 foot models but you want to be safe.
> [snapback]81257[/snapback]​


We thought we were looking at a 2004 model Z241. Spooking around the Keystone site tells us that the salesman didn't know that he was showing us a Z281. (Salesman is not a Keystone dealer). We now understand why it seemed so roomy.

This resolves the issue. 28' is out of the question; the 21RS is for us. Dealer in Tucson has some ordered & due in ~ 6 weeks. We may give him a deposit tomorrow (2/14).

Then I'll measure EVERYTHING & draw it up, 3D, in AutoCAD. I'll be able to design my mods before the trailer arrives.

Sorry for the wild goose chase folks. shy


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

LateralG said:


> This resolves the issue.Â 28' is out of the question; the 21RS is for us.Â Dealer in Tucson has some ordered & due in ~ 6 weeks.Â We may give him a deposit tomorrow (2/14).
> [snapback]81268[/snapback]​


Gee, and I was just formulating my response with all the reasons why the 21RS would be best. Oh well, next time.









You'll be very happy with the Outback.









Scott


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

LateralG said:


> This resolves the issue. 28' is out of the question; the 21RS is for us. Dealer in Tucson has some ordered & due in ~ 6 weeks. We may give him a deposit tomorrow (2/14).
> 
> Then I'll measure EVERYTHING & draw it up, 3D, in AutoCAD. I'll be able to design my mods before the trailer arrives.
> 
> ...


congrats on your decision I thinnk you'll be happy with it. 
Design your mods before you have the TT that is just to cool
No problemon the goose chase.

Don


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

What goose chase???You were just exploring your options!!!!









Good luck and congrats if you put a deposit down.

Happy Outbacking!

Tim


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Nobody told me we were on a wild goose chase. I would have brought Cheney


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

LateralG - Are you buying from Wally at Ruthrauff RV in Tucson? A couple of us on here recently put our deposits down for a 25RSS and the 26RS. He ordered a couple of extra TT's at that time so maybe you'll get one of those. He isn't stocking them this time of year. Wally cuts a pretty straight deal. Tell him I send my regards. Keep us posted on the details.

Mitch


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## LateralG (Feb 11, 2006)

campmg said:


> LateralG - Are you buying from Wally at Ruthrauff RV in Tucson? A couple of us on here recently put our deposits down for a 25RSS and the 26RS. He ordered a couple of extra TT's at that time so maybe you'll get one of those. He isn't stocking them this time of year. Wally cuts a pretty straight deal. Tell him I send my regards. Keep us posted on the details.
> 
> Mitch
> [snapback]81322[/snapback]​


Mitch,

Thats the plan. We'll be seeing Wally this morning.

Gary S.


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## LateralG (Feb 11, 2006)

LateralG said:


> campmg said:
> 
> 
> > LateralG - Are you buying from Wally at Ruthrauff RV in Tucson?Â A couple of us on here recently put our deposits down for a 25RSS and the 26RS.Â He ordered a couple of extra TT's at that time so maybe you'll get one of those.Â He isn't stocking them this time of year.Â Wally cuts a pretty straight deal.Â Tell him I send my regards.Â Keep us posted on the details.
> ...


Mitch,

We had an interesting experience with Wally today. Found the office door locked, so started to walk around the lot. A dude driving a hi-lo asked who we were looking for. I said "Wally", he said "that's me".

Told him we're interested in 2006 21RS. (A dealer in Mesa quoted $22,933 OTD, but Wally unaware of this.) Wally asked what number we were thinking of. I was thinking that $19,500 OTD would be a good bargaining starting point, so I said "19.5 OTD & I write a deposit check now." Without a word, he pulled out a contract, wrote $19,500 at the bottom, and backed into all the other numbers.

He called the factory to confirm the color (Desert Rose) and off-line date (3/15). Also learned that the factory won't build it with upper bunk loose. I understand why.

So far, we're totally pleased with transaction & would recommend Wally over the larger dealers.

He does remember you.

Gary S.


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## shake1969 (Sep 21, 2004)

Cheney. Heh, heh.

Good one.


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## drobe5150 (Jan 21, 2005)

gary action

congrats on the new 21rs. but you should reconfirm on the color, desert rose is no longer available for 2006 model year








good luck and keep us posted.

darrel


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## LateralG (Feb 11, 2006)

drobe5150 said:


> gary action
> 
> congrats on the new 21rs. but you should reconfirm on the color, desert rose is no longer available for 2006 model year
> 
> ...


Darrel,

I listened to the phone conversation between Wally & factory, & factory called back to confirm. The unit to come off the line 3/15 in desert rose.

What's the source of your info.?

Gary S.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Go to the Keystone web site. They list the current colors and Desert Rose is still listed but I think it is to be replaced by a color scheme called Havana. They may still have enough Desert Rose around to fill orders.


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

There was a post earlier yesterday from Ken @ Coachlight RV stating that he had a memo from Keystone. In summary: anything that comes off the line after 3/13/06 will be Havana. Now, there was something mentioned about orders? Now I have to go back and re-read it.

Happy Outbacking!

Tim action


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

Gary, glad things worked out well with Wally. I also spent time at the Mesa dealer. They may consider OTD to include hitch and brakes so just make sure you're comparing Apples and getting the right deal from Wally. I like the small dealer environment and talking to the decision maker unlike the big dealerships. As for color, Wally called me yesterday to confirm my 25RSS going into production next week with the Desert Rose. I've heard elsewhere that units ordered after March something will have Havana.


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## LateralG (Feb 11, 2006)

campmg said:


> Gary, glad things worked out well with Wally. I also spent time at the Mesa dealer. They may consider OTD to include hitch and brakes so just make sure you're comparing Apples and getting the right deal from Wally. I like the small dealer environment and talking to the decision maker unlike the big dealerships. As for color, Wally called me yesterday to confirm my 25RSS going into production next week with the Desert Rose. I've heard elsewhere that units ordered after March something will have Havana.
> [snapback]81629[/snapback]​


It was very clear that OTD at both places included the same stuff. Also, we like both colors.


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