# Difference Between Outback 23rs And R-vision Ms-23rs



## vikecowboy

Anyone know the main differences between these two models besides the two large bunks instead of the queen/bunk?

Weight is much less in the Max Sport.

Outback better quality or what???


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## HootBob

Well it's a lot lighter but thats's what they say
You wont know until you actually weigh it
And the Outbacks have bigger Fresh water Black and Grey tanks
But most of all where can you get the support like outbackers have here

Don


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## campmg

I looked at R-Vision's Max-Lite version of 23RS and the quality did not compare to the Outback. I think the Max Sport is even a lighter (term I use for stripped down) version of the Max-Lite. The Maxes seemed comparable until I got first hand experience. Granted these could just be the ones I saw at one particular dealer but ALL of the outdoor camp stoves were falling apart, molding was coming loose inside and several other fit and finish isues were found. The weights may not be appropriate if they're not including the option packs.

Whichever you decide on, welcome to the Outbackers. Have you checked their forum on Rvision camping somthing.com?


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## mswalt

At the risk of being somewhat crude, one is an *Outback.* The other is not.

Compare them side to side and see which is the better value.

Mark


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## countrygirl

mswalt said:


> At the risk of being somewhat crude, one is an *Outback.* The other is not.
> 
> Compare them side to side and see which is the better value.
> 
> Mark


I agree...with Mark...there is a big difference...and not just in cosmetics. Do your self a favor...go look at some used RVisions. Everyone we have been in had spongy floors.


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## campmg

countrygirl said:


> Do your self a favor...go look at some used RVisions. Everyone we have been in had spongy floors.


That's there new patented shock absorption domestic flooring system. Better known as the SAD Floor.


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## vikecowboy

I understand that most people in this forumn are probably biased towards Outback, but I also believe
that people here know what they are talking about. I have just been racking my brain trying to be comfortable with pulling the 23RS with my Tundra DC 4x2. Then I came across the MS brands and saw the weight was less and was wondering if there was a catch. There probably is. Hopefully I can find a dealer close to NM that has both brands and I can see for myself.

I thank everyone for their comments!


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## Oregon_Camper

Don't think I've ever seen a RVisions.

Make sure you really compare them. Open doors, look under bunks, put out the bed...all the things that need to be looked over, but something people overlook them when comparing items and move directly to price.


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## N7OQ

Well another clone, I looked at trh r-vision line and though I was going to buy a TT like what they sell but I then found the Outback and even though it was a little more then I had planned to pay I knew right away I had to have this TT none of the others compared.


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## skippershe

Hi vikecowboy








Welcome to Outbackers!

We bought our Outback without even knowing that this site existed.

You are the one who has to be comfortable and happy with your decision on which TT is best for you...We're here to help with the Outbacker side of things. We all love our Outbacks and yes, we may be biased but for good reason...we know first hand about the quality and dependability. Did I mention quality and dependability??

Good luck








Dawn


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## tdvffjohn

Outback weights listed were a little 'off' , lately the listed weights are closer to reality. That fact has always been a concern and a warning to someone who is close to there towing limit. Make sure the R-visions listed weight is accurate before you use the figures for your decision.

John


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## Reverie

I would be very interested in hearing how R-Vision owners feel about their trailers after about two years. I can't find a forum for them out there, but that isn't to say there isn't one. For me I got lucky when I chose to buy an Outback. I did all the research I could do and bought our '03 28BHS. This forum existed at that time but hadn't really taken-off so my purchase was based on faith and observation. This is actually the fifth camping season for our trailer (it was bought originally in '02) and it is still very well put together, with very few squeaks and no mushy places. The front Gelcoat bears testimony to being hauled across a variety of roads but the front is still intact. The roof doesn't leak. The doors aren't loose and don't leak either. The water, sewer, electrical, A/C and Heating systems all work as designed. I could have done without the Duros but it gives me something to complain about...

Reverie


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## csblackwell

Reverie said:


> I would be very interested in hearing how R-Vision owners feel about their trailers after about two years.


We've had our Max-Lite 24RS 15 months and have been very happy with the trailer and the quality. When we were shopping, we were down to the Outback and the Max-Lite. We went with the Max-Lite for 3 reasons in this order -

1) Electric rear slide (we did not like the manuel slide)
2) Interior colors
3) Dealer

Other than the above, we might have been in the Outback. The floor plan was the same.



> I can't find a forum for them out there, but that isn't to say there isn't one.


Check out my sig for the R-Vision Camping Club Forums



> I could have done without the Duros but it gives me something to complain about...


I have Duro's as well, but, knock on wood, I have been very pleased with them. We've been as far south as Disney World and we've been in the mountains of NC to the Outer Banks and they look like new.

I hope you guys and gals don't mind me posting / lurking here. Since my trailer is so similiar to the Outback, some of the discussions and mods have helped me.


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## tdvffjohn

No problem, honest opinions is good and you gave the comparison he asked for.









Now I need to go to that other forum you said and speak highly of Outbacks
















John

OK, I did , what a difference. You need to join to read the forum at all, if we did that the member number would be WOW


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## campmg

We may be biased toward the Outback but most of us also did a lot of research and comparison. I really liked the RVision Trail Cruiser. I thought it was well made. When I decided I wanted the floor plan of the 25RSS (I think 24RS in the Max or Sport Lite) I drove 350 miles to see them. Unfortunately, these were not up to the level of the Outback, nor were they up to par with the other Trail Cruisers that I thought were well built.

I wanted the auto rear slide but "sacrificed" toward a nice simplistic design in the Outback. I've recently read posts on rv.net/forum regarding problems some are having with such auto systems. Check out www.v-visioncamping.org for a forum with info on those products.


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## Scrib

> AGAIN, THIS SITE IS FOR CURRENT AND PROSPECTIVE R-VISION OWNERS, IF YOU DON'T OWN OR ARE NOT RESEARCHING AN R-VISION PRODUCT FOR POTENTIAL OWNERSHIP, CHECK OUT RV.NET INSTEAD.


Ouch!


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## campmg

Scrib said:


> AGAIN, THIS SITE IS FOR CURRENT AND PROSPECTIVE R-VISION OWNERS, IF YOU DON'T OWN OR ARE NOT RESEARCHING AN R-VISION PRODUCT FOR POTENTIAL OWNERSHIP, CHECK OUT RV.NET INSTEAD.
> 
> 
> 
> Ouch!
Click to expand...

You can't get RVision contact number from the RVision site either. I had to post on rv.net just to get a number to call. They're owned by Monaco now but not sure the RVision shop has changed.


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## MaeJae

Scrib said:


> AGAIN, THIS SITE IS FOR CURRENT AND PROSPECTIVE R-VISION OWNERS, IF YOU DON'T OWN OR ARE NOT RESEARCHING AN R-VISION PRODUCT FOR POTENTIAL OWNERSHIP, CHECK OUT RV.NET INSTEAD.
> 
> 
> 
> Ouch!
Click to expand...

Wow...that bites! 
I wonder if they require a fax of your sales receipt as proof? 








MaeJae


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## csblackwell

> AGAIN, THIS SITE IS FOR CURRENT AND PROSPECTIVE R-VISION OWNERS, IF YOU DON'T OWN OR ARE NOT RESEARCHING AN R-VISION PRODUCT FOR POTENTIAL OWNERSHIP, CHECK OUT RV.NET INSTEAD.


I've never seen that statement. Where did do you see it?

Anyhoo, the forums will be open to the public next month. It's not my site, so don't flame me.


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## Scrib

It's on the registraton page. No big deal - just thought it was kind of funny, since I run a forum (military) myself


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## tdvffjohn

Don t woryy CSB, no flaming.......We don t shoot the messenger










By the way.............Welcome









John


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## PDX_Doug

*Welcome to Outbackers, vikecowboy!*









I'm glad you found us.







Like most of us here, we looked at all of them before settling on the Outback. Spend 1.5 years searching, actually, and kept coming back to the Outback. I can honestly say, I have zero regrets over the choice we made!









Also...







*Welcome to Outbackers, CSB!*








Good to hear your Max-Lite is working out for you! looks like you guys have a nice forum as well! Feel free to come visit us anytime. We don't bite!

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## vikecowboy

Is the Outback inclosed underbelly really that great of a deal (prevents freezing?) or just a sales pitch? This probably adds weight to the Outback and may explain some of the weight differences between the two brands.

Also that silly door on the side for bike storage - any seal problems? Does it have a secure latch like the front door? Why not just use the main door?

Thanks again folks!!!


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## campmg

The enclosed unbelly is a strong type of corrugated plastic. It's very light weight and holds up well. It helps trap in radiant heat put off by the furnance duct work and can extend your camping season.

The bike door works well to load stuff (bikes) without having to go through the main door and over the stairs. It locks and dead bolts just like the other doors.


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## vikecowboy

You guys are awesome!!


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## alebar17

We actually were searching for the Max-lite, as there are only a few dealers in So.Cal, when we stumbled on the Outback. We saw a huge difference in the quality of the TT. A few things that I remember: the Max-lite had raw wood edges visible in the kitchen counter area, the storage space did not make much sense and the bathroom door was about 2 inches too short for the frame, in order to miss the light. Those are just the details that I noticed







. 
The other big selling points were this forum and the few things that I learned about R-vision when I searched on the internet.


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## Reverie

I doubt the entire belly cover of my 28BHS weighs more than five pounds. What it adds is some aerodynamics when we tow, a barrier to critters coming in from above, it protects the wires, pipes and tanks under the trailer from damage as we tow. I suppose it insulates as well but I have no way to quantify how well.

Reverie


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## Husker92

After looking at all the trailers on the market - we kept coming back to the outback! Compared to the other trailers in it's price range it came out on top.









What sold us was the outside stove and sink!

It a great trailer and when I found this site it made it ever better.


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## Doxie-Doglover

PDX_Doug said:


> *Welcome to Outbackers, vikecowboy!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad you found us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like most of us here, we looked at all of them before settling on the Outback. Spend 1.5 years searching, actually, and kept coming back to the Outback. I can honestly say, I have zero regrets over the choice we made!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Welcome to Outbackers, CSB!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good to hear your Max-Lite is working out for you! looks like you guys have a nice forum as well! Feel free to come visit us anytime. We don't bite!
> 
> Happy Trails,
> Doug


that's our PDX Doug, always so nice to everyone.But be careful Newbie, he's soon to be a convicted felon


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## MaeJae

First WELCOME to Outbackers...and post often!

I researched pop-ups before we bought our Niagara...
I researched TT before we bought the Outback...









I don't think I "settled" on anything!

I got exactly what I wanted!
Make/Model/Color!

Get-out...Get-CAMPIN" !
MaeJae


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## N7OQ

CSB said:


> I would be very interested in hearing how R-Vision owners feel about their trailers after about two years.


We've had our Max-Lite 24RS 15 months and have been very happy with the trailer and the quality. When we were shopping, we were down to the Outback and the Max-Lite. We went with the Max-Lite for 3 reasons in this order -

1) Electric rear slide (we did not like the manuel slide)
2) Interior colors
3) Dealer

Other than the above, we might have been in the Outback. The floor plan was the same.



> I can't find a forum for them out there, but that isn't to say there isn't one.


Check out my sig for the R-Vision Camping Club Forums



> I could have done without the Duros but it gives me something to complain about...


I have Duro's as well, but, knock on wood, I have been very pleased with them. We've been as far south as Disney World and we've been in the mountains of NC to the Outer Banks and they look like new.

I hope you guys and gals don't mind me posting / lurking here. Since my trailer is so similiar to the Outback, some of the discussions and mods have helped me.
[/quote]

Reason I bought a Outback:
1.Easy to use without a easy to break electric rear slide.
2.Interior Colors, best Interior in the industry IMHO
3. Dealer 
4. Quality, style, value and just a great TT

If I had not ever seen a Outback I might have bought a differernt TT Maybe......

I went to that Rvision site and they are not as nice as the Outbacker site, can't go to any pages as a visitor can only go to the home page only unless I join it. What are they hiding???

But they did have 2 posts today...


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## OutbackPM

vikecowboy said:


> Is the Outback inclosed underbelly really that great of a deal (prevents freezing?) or just a sales pitch? This probably adds weight to the Outback and may explain some of the weight differences between the two brands.
> 
> Also that silly door on the side for bike storage - any seal problems? Does it have a secure latch like the front door? Why not just use the main door?
> 
> Thanks again folks!!!


 I can give you a little info on the underbelly. I went camping last Thankgiving and on the Thursday the temp went below freezing for 36 hour down to a min of 10 F Thurs night. All I had was the furnace and a full tank of water. I did not have any freezing in any pipe during that time although I keep the cabinet doors open and had the furnace up high to gaurd as best I could (went through LP container in the 4 days while we were camping). Its not the real winter protection but if you go below freezing over night it will work with that. We have done several winter camps and enjoy it very much and have not had any freezing issues yet.
BTW the 26RS does not have a "silly door" only the one main in and out door.


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## pjb2cool

MaeJae said:


> AGAIN, THIS SITE IS FOR CURRENT AND PROSPECTIVE R-VISION OWNERS, IF YOU DON'T OWN OR ARE NOT RESEARCHING AN R-VISION PRODUCT FOR POTENTIAL OWNERSHIP, CHECK OUT RV.NET INSTEAD.
> 
> 
> 
> Ouch!
Click to expand...

Wow...that bites! 
I wonder if they require a fax of your sales receipt as proof? 








MaeJae 
[/quote]







Not only do you have to fax your receipt, but probably take a picture with the days newspaper with the date in front of you, AND your sales receipt.


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## vikecowboy

Going to look at the Outback 21RS and 25RS this weekend. Probably have to settle for the smaller one (21RS) due to weight and length. I do like the slide out couch idea for the 25RS but this is our first camper so maybe small and light is the way to go.

Thanks


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## MaeJae

vikecowboy said:


> Going to look at the Outback 21RS and 25RS this weekend. Probably have to settle for the smaller one (21RS) due to weight and length. I do like the slide out couch idea for the 25RS but this is our first camper so maybe small and light is the way to go.
> 
> Thanks


Iâ€™m not sure of your TV and its limitationsâ€¦ But if your are only 
concerned about pulling because it is your first TT... donâ€™t be!

Never Settle! If your TV is capable then go for it!
I NEVER thought I would be pulling our 27RSDS. 
We had a pop-up with a F250 CREW PSD and never pulled it once!

Get-outâ€¦ Get CAMPINâ€™
MaeJae


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## Moosegut

vikecowboy said:


> Going to look at the Outback 21RS and 25RS this weekend. Probably have to settle for the smaller one (21RS) due to weight and length. I do like the slide out couch idea for the 25RS but this is our first camper so maybe small and light is the way to go.
> 
> Thanks


Just a word of caution - I'm not trying to steer you one way or the other. Our first TT had no side slide and I regretted it within three weeks after purchase. I "settled" for the non-slide because it was lighter and I regretted it.

Rizfam pulls a 26RKS (a bit heavier than the 25RS) with their Tundra and they do fine. You may want to PM them to talk about it.

Scott

PM to Rizfam


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## vikecowboy

I do like the 26RS - has no slide out but I like multiple bunk beds. I just don't like the added cost and pulling something that long/heavy.

Who knows when I actually see them I may change my mind.

FYI I have a 2005 Tundra DC 4x2 and I will be towing in mountains sometimes.


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## kjuhnke

Verstelle said:


> Well another clone, I looked at trh r-vision line and though I was going to buy a TT like what they sell but I then found the Outback and even though it was a little more then I had planned to pay I knew right away I had to have this TT none of the others compared.


We've been comparing the Outback 23rs and the Max-Lite 23rs and we're having a similar experience.

Although we haven't committed to purchasing yet. There is just something about the Outback from visual appeal to apparent overall construction that is luring us in.

kj


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## N7OQ

junkman said:


> Well another clone, I looked at trh r-vision line and though I was going to buy a TT like what they sell but I then found the Outback and even though it was a little more then I had planned to pay I knew right away I had to have this TT none of the others compared.


We've been comparing the Outback 23rs and the Max-Lite 23rs and we're having a similar experience.

Although we haven't committed to purchasing yet. There is just something about the Outback from visual appeal to apparent overall construction that is luring us in.

kj
[/quote]
Good luck Junkman on your choice I hope that what ever that choice is you enjoy it as much as our family does our TT. Every family member just loves it and can't wait to use it and this group has made the experience even that much better.


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## campmg

Once you have the trailer, I don't think you'll notice the extra few feet between some of the models as long as your TV is capable of towing the larger and probably heavier model. If it can handle it, I would get the model you like most without worrying about towing something 26 feet vs. 23 feet.


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## Oregon_Camper

Moosegut said:


> Going to look at the Outback 21RS and 25RS this weekend. Probably have to settle for the smaller one (21RS) due to weight and length. I do like the slide out couch idea for the 25RS but this is our first camper so maybe small and light is the way to go.
> 
> Thanks


Just a word of caution - I'm not trying to steer you one way or the other. Our first TT had no side slide and I regretted it within three weeks after purchase. I "settled" for the non-slide because it was lighter and I regretted it.

Rizfam pulls a 26RKS (a bit heavier than the 25RS) with their Tundra and they do fine. You may want to PM them to talk about it.

Scott

PM to Rizfam
[/quote]

I agree...the side slide really opens things up and give the feeling of a lot more space.


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## sjredburn

I'm also looking at the Max-Lite 23rs, mostly because of it's double/double front bunks that Outback doesn't offer. Yes, it is shorter and lighter than the Outback 23rs but the walls are 1.5" thick vs 2", the toilet is plastic vs porcelin and the interior is an inferior 'copy-cat' version of the Outback. I don't know about floor construction-R-Visions website is a joke. I do like the idea of the no-hassle electric rear slide but had to make sure that is can be manually operated if necessary. Also the rear queen is smaller in both dimensions than the Outback. On the plus side, the Max-Lite has larger windows everywhere, and two in the rear slide - unlike the newer Outbacks.

Having said all that, the wife is stuck on the Max-Lite's compact size & weight combined with sleeping accomodations for 6 adults + kids that is hard to find in one trailer anywhere.

Price is about the same (we are comparing with the Outback 21rs) and I like the dealer better than Mike Thompson but the Outback owners support group here in this forum is priceless - especially for newbies like us!

I'm still torn...did I miss anything that I should factor in?

Stacey


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## HTQM

Vikecowboy/Junkman,

I must say we did the same, looked for months at toy haulers. We litteraly "stumbled" across the 23 Roo and told the salesman "If this was a little bigger"..... next thing ya know.

After purchase I found this awesome website, I don't think there's a question or problem these folks couldn't solve or get you in the right direction.

As far as accomadations; Not sure about the model your looking at but ours has held ten "sleeping" comfortably (wake up call was "get out"). And routinely has six per camping trip. One thing to consider (for most), the OB is mostly for sleeping. The outside kitchen has made the use of the stove/oven limited, nothing like making morning coffee and not waking a sole.

Also; We camped a week ago or so ago in nite temps below freezing, the heated underbelly kept me worry free thru nthe night. I did disconnect the water hose and drain it after the little people went to bed.

Slides; Like others have said, the queen slide being manual is one less thing that can go wrong, IMHO. I wouldn't mind if the dinette slide were manual, one more less thing the Destroyer could mess with.

From what we looked at (side by side), fit and finish is not a comparison. You really get more bang for the buck with Outback. I'm not an Engineer but 22 years of fixing ships made me look in depth at the structure of each camper we considered. Trust me when I tell you, a salesman will look at you cross eyed if you crawl under their campers on the lot. this helps.

Hope this helps.
Good luck shopping
Dave


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## Above & Beyond

In terms of mpg you are not going to notice a differnce between the 23 or the 25. Does the other have ducted air? 1 thing that that out back has is more storage than others. Just a little more to think about & none of us here have anything to gain whether you buy 1 or the other. But we are here for you if you get the outback. But we will still try to help the S.O.B.'s ( some other brand ) Good luck


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## campmg

I've posted earlier but now you mention the larger windows in the Max Lite.

Caution here.  Since the dinette table is against what is window in the MaxLite (as opposed to below the window in the Outback), there have been reports of the table hitting the window and bending the metal cross bar on the window. This wasn't done in transport since the table must be lowered for the queen bed, but from normal use of the dinette.


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