# Arctic Barrier Package



## TimbaJack

What all is included in the artic package on new units? I know about the enclosed underbelly but what about other stuff. Are the windows double paned, does it have extra insulation, etc? We havent picked up our new 250rs yet but we are planning a couple of camping trips for late Oct. and november and i'm curious to know what is included in the package that will make the cooler weather camping more enjoyable and help us to be better prepared. thanks.


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## Bob in Virginia

Enclosed and heated underbelly for all tanks and valves, more insulation. My windows are single pane. This is my first year with my 301BQ, but I'm planning on several Fall/Winter outtings.


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## CamperAndy

I do not know of any "Arctic Package" for the Outbacks or Sydney trailers. That said Mississippi at any time of year should not be an issue. As long as day time temps go above freezing you will be fine, over night temps in the teens have not been an issue for me.


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## Bob in Virginia

Andy, I have a 2011 301BQ and it has the Arctic Package. Nice thing about insulation is that it helps with hot days as well as the cold winters, and we have both in Virginia.


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## TimbaJack

CamperAndy said:


> I do not know of any "Arctic Package" for the Outbacks or Sydney trailers. That said Mississippi at any time of year should not be an issue. As long as day time temps go above freezing you will be fine, over night temps in the teens have not been an issue for me.


I have seen the 2011's advertised with the arctic package (maybe even the 2010s) but not many dealers know much about it and I havent found details on what all is included (I assumed they all would have insulation and wouldnt advertise a special arctic package, unless it was something extra special). I was hoping for double paned windows (to help with condensation in cooler temps). We're planning our first extended trip to be to gatlinburg in mid november where the avg temps are mid 30s. thanks for the feeback everyone.


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## clarkely

I have seen the Decal on units starting in late 2009 and on the 2010 model years.

as stated previuosly...... enclosed, heated, insulated underbelly and heated tanks.....


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## CamperAndy

Nothing but Dealer hype. There is nothing on the Outback or Sydney web sites about any special "Arctic Package".

The trailers are good down into the teens as long as the day time temps rise above freezing.


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## clarkely

CamperAndy said:


> Nothing but Dealer hype. There is nothing on the Outback or Sydney web sites about any special "Arctic Package".
> 
> The trailers are good down into the teens as long as the day time temps rise above freezing.


They come from the Factory with the decal, it is standard on outbacks. Some other Keystone Brands it used to be called the "Polar Package".... Just found one Cougar, on them it is an option........


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## clarkely

Keystone Hype .......... nothing special compared to other outbacks... its standard......... on some other Keystone Products it is an option.


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## Nathan

Just advertising or not, an OB can handle teens for a weekend without an issue if it warms up dring the day, like Andy mentioned. I'm forgetting who, but someone just mentioned seeing 5 deg if I recall correctly. They are a good 3 season camper. Double pane windows and such are expensive and heavy, so I don't think you'll see them much on this type of trailer...


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## Steffanie622

If you go colder weather camping then the 2 things I have purchased and recommend would be a small heater (I have a Honeywell small tower one) and heating blankets for the beds. Having a solid camper instead of tent/canvas sides made our fall/winter camping much more comfortable. Instead of going through my propane I keep the electric heater on a setting and it clicks on and off as needed sitting on the stove top. The campers furnace kicks in when it's needed but that is not often, usually not at all during the fall. The heating blankets we place on top of the mattress but under the sheets on all the beds. You crawl into a nice cozy bed and don't get chilled while sleeping. The heated underbellies and solid slides/beds are one of the reasons I chose an Outback. We like camping in all the seasons except for the dead of winter. Enjoy!

Steffanie


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## gzaleski

Is their actually heat in the underbelly or do they just use the heating duct under the floor and say it's heated? My bet is on the heating duct from the furnace under the floor.

glen...


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## cdnbayside

This is our 2010 300BH


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## KTMRacer

gzaleski said:


> Is their actually heat in the underbelly or do they just use the heating duct under the floor and say it's heated? My bet is on the heating duct from the furnace under the floor.
> 
> glen...


Was wondering the same thing On my 295RE, So, I dropped a thermocouple into the underbelly through one of the drain pipe openings, and then turned on the heat. Thermocouple showed the underbelly temps rising faster than the interior temps. With a 50F staring temp in the undebelly, within 5 minutes it was up to 60F and was at 68 before the inside was. So, while I haven't opened it up to verify, I seems like there is a heat vent directly into the underbelly. (Or I have a big air furnace vent air leak!)


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## booze123

Our dealer told us that the underbelly has NO auxilary heating (otherwise, you'd see a panel for controlling it). He said we could install electric heat tracing to pipes and a heat strip to the tanks, but that would be expensive. The only heat in the underbelly is the radiant heat from the ducts. I installed foam pipe insulation on the low point vents and fresh water tank drain that protrudes below the barrier. I think one would be fine even with temps below freezing, but sure would hate to create a problem though.


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## Nathan

KTMRacer said:


> Was wondering the same thing On my 295RE, So, I dropped a thermocouple into the underbelly through one of the drain pipe openings, and then turned on the heat. Thermocouple showed the underbelly temps rising faster than the interior temps. With a 50F staring temp in the undebelly, within 5 minutes it was up to 60F and was at 68 before the inside was. So, while I haven't opened it up to verify, I seems like there is a heat vent directly into the underbelly. (Or I have a big air furnace vent air leak!)


Ding ding ding, we have a winner!!!









The vent pipes aren't exactly sealed and some have reported open ends.....


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## Carey

Ive never seen dual pane windows on any model bumper pull rv. Dual pane windows are a 5er thing.


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## WYOCAMPER

Nathan said:


> I'm forgetting who, but someone just mentioned seeing 5 deg if I recall correctly. They are a good 3 season camper.


That would be me. Labor Day weekend up in the mountains. 30 degrees Fri night, 22 on Sat night, and 5 degrees Sunday night. The Outback did great. The heat would kick on every 15-20 minutes. The 5 degree night made me nervous so we opened up the cupboards to keep heat flowing to the water lines and ran the faucets every hour to keep water moving thru the system. It did however warm up into the 60's & 70's during the day, which I'm sure helped the situation quite a bit.

I agree with Nathan, Outbacks are a good 3 season camper. If you run your heat at night, you should be just fine dipping into the low 30's.


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## Up State NY Camper

It seems like it takes my camper takes a long time to heat up. I was wondering if I had a leak in the ducts. My old camper (19ft hybrid) heated much faster, even with the canvas bunk ends. I know the 312 is much bigger, but isn't the furnace more powerful in a larger trailer? It just seemed like the furnace worked awfully hard (an hour or so) to get the camper up to temp. One of our first trips this year was pretty cold, maybe mid to upper 30's for a daytime high. Is that normal?

The above post about the underbelly heating much faster than the TT has me thinking I might have a leak in the ducts, or too much warm air is heating the underbelly and I would like to maybe damper it.


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## swanny

Well I own SOB with the Arctic package. The only thing i can add is, Don't get too excited about It. I am not impressed, more hype than reality. Temps in the 40's Last week in NH and furness ran more than i would have liked. The insulation in the walls, ceiling and floor can't make up for all the windows with no insulation.

kevin


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## Calvin&Hobbes

I agree with Kevin.... I think the word "Artic" package should be replaced with the word "really chilly night but warmer day" package. We've spent many a night dry camping with the fall temps dipping into the twenty's, but rebounding to the upper 50's to mid 60's by day. At some of the CG's we would run the big furnace for an hour or so, then switch to the small electric heater. The big furnace would cycle occasionally, but the smaller one would keep the RQS comfortable.


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## Nathan

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> I agree with Kevin.... I think the word "Artic" package should be replaced with the word "really chilly night but warmer day" package. ........


Uhhh, hate to break it to you, but I don't think you have a future in advertising.....


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## Calvin&Hobbes

Yeah, the fortune teller said the same thing.


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## clarkely

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> Yeah, the fortune teller said the same thing.


Just curious.....what other interesting things did He/She tell you







were you hypnotized


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## Ish

Up State NY Camper said:


> It seems like it takes my camper takes a long time to heat up. I was wondering if I had a leak in the ducts. My old camper (19ft hybrid) heated much faster, even with the canvas bunk ends. I know the 312 is much bigger, but isn't the furnace more powerful in a larger trailer? It just seemed like the furnace worked awfully hard (an hour or so) to get the camper up to temp. One of our first trips this year was pretty cold, maybe mid to upper 30's for a daytime high. Is that normal?
> 
> The above post about the underbelly heating much faster than the TT has me thinking I might have a leak in the ducts, or too much warm air is heating the underbelly and I would like to maybe damper it.


I was getting very little air coming thru the floor vents so I had the dealer look at it under warranty. Sure enough, Gilligan was working that day on the assembly line and the duck work in the underbelly either wasn't securely installed or it came loose later....


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## KTMRacer

Nathan said:


> Was wondering the same thing On my 295RE, So, I dropped a thermocouple into the underbelly through one of the drain pipe openings, and then turned on the heat. Thermocouple showed the underbelly temps rising faster than the interior temps. With a 50F staring temp in the undebelly, within 5 minutes it was up to 60F and was at 68 before the inside was. So, while I haven't opened it up to verify, I seems like there is a heat vent directly into the underbelly. (Or I have a big air furnace vent air leak!)


Ding ding ding, we have a winner!!!









The vent pipes aren't exactly sealed and some have reported open ends.....








[/quote]

Well, today I opened up the underbelly to see if I could figure out why the furthest air duct wasn't getting much air. Nothing obvious but the runs are pretty long with lots of "extra" ducting and the flexible pipe isn't insulated. Cut off the "extra duct" and cleaned up the routing for more gentle bends. Careful inspection showed no cuts or bad joints in the ducting. Turning on the heat I found that while there is no direct duct to the underbelly, there is a fair amount of air leakage from plumbing holes along with radiant heat from the ducting keeping the underbelly warm. Just cutting off the extra duct and careful reroute did improve the flow and heat to the furthest duct. Once I button it back up I plan on punching a 1" dia. hole in the metal floor vent frame in the bedroom to vent heat directly into the underbelly, this is near the fresh water tank. BR gets plenty of warm air and I need to put a damper on that vent anyway.


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## swanny

also check all the connections at the furness. most likely the flanges will need to be taped. usually lots of small air leaks there.

kevin


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## TimbaJack

swanny said:


> Well I own SOB with the Arctic package. The only thing i can add is, Don't get too excited about It. I am not impressed, more hype than reality. Temps in the 40's Last week in NH and furness ran more than i would have liked. The insulation in the walls, ceiling and floor can't make up for all the windows with no insulation.
> 
> kevin


I am thinking about getting some of that 3M insulator film (http://www.amazon.com/3M-2141W-Indoor-5-Window-Insulator/dp/B00002NCJI) to put on the windows since they are single pane. Has anybody tried this? It sounds easy to apply and got good reviews. Hopefully that will help with insulating the windows and reduce condensation in cold weather and keep it cooler in the summer months.


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## KTMRacer

swanny said:


> also check all the connections at the furness. most likely the flanges will need to be taped. usually lots of small air leaks there.
> 
> kevin


yup, did that also. those easy to remove flanges for ducting hookup leak lots of air. Taped around the ducting flanges and taped over he unused flanges as well. All with the aluminum tape. Also taped where the front of the furnace plate attaches to the chamber. Amazing how much leaks through all the small opening. Also noticed that the longest run connected to the side of the furnace. First, that means a very sharp right angle turn as it exits the furnace and second, fan flow is directed to the front not side. swapped the longest run with one of the front exit vents. made a noticeable difference in airflow in the longest run. At some point I may replace all the ducting to flexible insulated ducting.


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## Up State NY Camper

Ish said:


> It seems like it takes my camper takes a long time to heat up. I was wondering if I had a leak in the ducts. My old camper (19ft hybrid) heated much faster, even with the canvas bunk ends. I know the 312 is much bigger, but isn't the furnace more powerful in a larger trailer? It just seemed like the furnace worked awfully hard (an hour or so) to get the camper up to temp. One of our first trips this year was pretty cold, maybe mid to upper 30's for a daytime high. Is that normal?
> 
> The above post about the underbelly heating much faster than the TT has me thinking I might have a leak in the ducts, or too much warm air is heating the underbelly and I would like to maybe damper it.


I was getting very little air coming thru the floor vents so I had the dealer look at it under warranty. Sure enough, Gilligan was working that day on the assembly line and the duck work in the underbelly either wasn't securely installed or it came loose later....
[/quote]

Thanks, good to know.


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