# aplvlykat



## aplvlykat (Jan 25, 2004)

I know we have talked about quieting down the pump before but could not find where. I wanted to share something I learned on the other forum because I have almost a silent pump now. The fix is very easy, almost to simple, this guy said he took a piece of clear round 1 1/2 inch tubing and cut the end at a 45. Then he mounted the pump to the tubes like pontoons and screwed the tubes to the floor. He also said to use flex water line and put around three loops to deaden vibration. It works great, the whole project cost around $5.00 for the 1 1/2" tube, I don't know how much for the water line because I already had it. Works great and very quiet. Kirk


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Interesting idea Kirk. How far did you run the flex lines? Did you connect those throughout the camper or just where you could get to them? (You may have covered that before but I forgot). Most of all... any pics yet?


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

First one to post pics...







will be my hero!

I need a visual on this one. Sounds like a mod I'll end up doing!
Great Ideas!


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Lost a few posts, maybe those that posted responses remember what they said and can repost on this thread.


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## aplvlykat (Jan 25, 2004)

Ok guy's I posted some pictures in my gallery. There seems to be some posts missing but I have to agree with what Kevin said in that these pumps will not move around that much and it does not take much to hold them into place. This is a easy mod because the pump and the tee both have standard 1/2" male pipe threads. When you go and buy the new flex hose try to get one that has a 1/2" inside diameter and one that has 1/2" female pipe ends on both sides. The pump is only screwed to the floor with those square head screws and can be moved around within reason. This really made a big difference in the noise level. Kirk


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## DaveRL (Feb 26, 2004)

Kirk,

How do you mount the pump to the tubing? Do you just use screws or do you neeg bolts nad nuts?

I have used the flex pipe but had'nt figured an easy way to mount the pump.

Great idea!


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## aplvlykat (Jan 25, 2004)

Hi dave, I just used 4- 3/4" screws to hold the pump and put them into the tubing, holds great. Kirk


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## hurricaneplumber (Apr 12, 2004)

"All SHURflo pumps are engineered with rubber mounting feet to minimize noise and vibration will function properly only if proper fasteners used to snug down (not flatten) the feet.

Flexible mounting, as well as flexible inlet and outlet plumbing (such as reinforced hose), is critical low pump noise level and pump longevity.

The pump may be mounted in any position. If mounting the pump vertically, the pump head should be in the down position so that in the unlikely event of a leak, water will not enter the motor.

Use #8 hardware to fasten the pump. Choose a solid surface (thick plywood) that will not amplify pump operation. The mounting feet are intended to isolate the pump from the mounting surface; over-tightening, flattening, or use of oversized screws will reduce the ability to isolate vibration/noise."

This might be what I had posted, or similar, it is from the installation manual.

The one thing I have noticed with the flexible hoses, mine have metal fittings which sweat with condensation. If you can find them with plastic connectors or make your own, I would go with plastic. I am going to insulate my fittings to help this. One step forward, 1/2 back.

Kevin


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

After I did the mod to the box around the pump I don't hear it much anymore, where I am hearing the vibration is from the hose that feeds under the skink. Anyone done anything to quiet that vibration down? I was thinking of using the foam insulation around it to buffer it a bit. But still not sure that will quiet it down or not.


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## hurricaneplumber (Apr 12, 2004)

Y,

My factory setup had vibration to the kitchen sink and the bathroom. When I installed the flexible hoses at the pump, the vibration to the kitchen and bath sinks was eliminated. The vibration started where the PEX piping went through the floor from the pump and you could hear it travel all the way down the piping till it hit the kitchen which is the first tap off.
I am very happy at this point with just isolating the pump itself. My goal was to eliminate the problem instead of putting a band-aid on it. So far so good.

Kevin


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi

Great mod that got me thinking...







After a weekend of camping and waking up everytime one of our loved ones went.. this was a must mod.

I decided to approach it differently. I bought some 1" SM board (24"x96"). With a tape measure and a utility knike the whole mod was completed in 20min.

1. Remove cushions and 2 screws from seat cover.
2. Remove 4 screw that fasten the water pump.
3. Measure the 4 sides and bottom
4. Cut to size with knife. (no mess)
5. put bottom in and the 4 sides
6. Secure water pump in same location and use 4, 1" longer screws.
7. Measure the top and cut
8. Re-install cover and replace cushions

Virtually no noise when pump is running.

Add bonus is that I fasten the one side to the divider and now the divider has some stiffness to it.

Thor


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## kimacobb (Apr 4, 2004)

Thor, sounds like a great idea...what is SM board? thanks

Kim


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

Kim

SM board is the pink or blue styrofoam sheets you see on any new building site. It is use as exterior insulation and it is water proof. You can barrier this in the ground and also use it to deflect ground water. It is better the white because it has rigidity and cuts very easily without making any mess.

Also if there is every a water leak the SM board will help protect the TT.

Sheet come 24"x96" and you end up with very little waste. (the height is approx. 22"-23")

Thor


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## kimacobb (Apr 4, 2004)

thor...thanks !!!! thats the stuff I was thinking of using but ,wondering if it would work...you have now answered my question..I will add this to my mod list. Thanks

Kim


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## hurricaneplumber (Apr 12, 2004)

For those who have never ventured to the under world, these are pictures of my water tank. In an effort to find a solution to the erratic sensors and noisy pump, here is what I have found.

Pump noise: The PEX piping from the pump discharge is sitting directly on top of the steel frame rail, hence the vibration noise throughout. I did notice the top of the steel frame rail is very sharp, in due time I would imagine enough chaffing may cause a leak, maybe in 5-10 years. I am going to slip some pipe insulation over it while I am in there.

The sensors, still baffle me, enough said there....

One huge item I noticed is all of the wiring is just laying on top of the black covering, not attached anywhere I could see. The main battery cable is just laying there. So be careful if you ever attemp cutting a hole in this covering, there are lots of wires.

I filled my gray tank up until the full light came on, I then measured what came out and got 22 gallons. I then filled the gray tank again unitl the shower drain was full, which should mean the gray tank is really full. I measured 40 gallons coming out. Decifering all of this leads me to just check my tub drain to see if the gray tank is full. If water comes up in my tub I will get out the tote-tank.

I will see what else I can find while in there. Besides lots of spare screws.

This shows the black steel frame rail, the PEX pipe is on top and the vent hose is lower.









This shows the drivers side of the fresh water tank, the sensors are behind the fill pipe, which was leaking.









Kevin


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## aplvlykat (Jan 25, 2004)

Kevin, isn't it fun to drop the bottom. Did you take it all the way off or just drop the back section. When I did the repairs on my ducting I only lowered the back section. To put it back up I had to make a little helper out of 2x4. I used two short pieces and one long section nailed togethere then I slid it between the ground and the plastic to hold it up while I screwed it into place.
I know what you mean about the metal to plastic tank thing. To take care of that I emptied the tank, positioned it where it needed to be and sprayed in some expandable foam, while the foam was setting I refilled the tank to compress the foam and get a good fit. It worked good the rails now have a little foam cushion and the tank is cushioned into place. 
The other thing I regret not doing is to upgrade the main power feed from the cord junction box to the converter, I just didn't think of it at the time. It looks like they used 12 awg solid romex wire. I want to change it out to 8 awg stranded but I would have to drop the bottom again, you may want to think about doing this while you are there. Good luck and have fun Kirk


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

Kirk

Do you have anymore details on the foam??? Where did you exactly spray it? Any concerns later if you need to get to any plumbing or wiring???

I would be interested. My plan is to go deep into the the underworld of the TT and I only wish to go there once.

Thor


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## aplvlykat (Jan 25, 2004)

Hi Thor, I don't know how the 28rss is set up but it most likely is the same. My TT has sheet metal L beams that run from frame to frame. The fresh water tank sits on the L part between the frames and the only thing to stop the tank from sliding back and forth between the frames is a little ell bracket, about where the drain lines drop through the bottom. What I did was to lift the tank and spray foam on the sheet metal L beams that the tank sits on then I filled the tank with water to compress the foam, hopefully this will cushion the tank and keep it off the metal. At the same time I pushed the tank against the little ell stop and at the other side I filled the gap between the frame and the tank to stop it from sliding back and forth. This is the way I did it only because it was easy and I did not have to drop the tank, I am sure that there are better ways. 
I am thinking about dropping the front section and seeing if the gray and black tanks are done the same way, metal to plastic. Also when I have it down I am going to upgrade the main feed wire from the junction box to the converter/ charger. Oh I didn't answer the other question you had about the plumbing, No it did not have any affect at all, if any thing it should help because the tank no longer moves and will not loosen any of the fittings. You will see what I mean when you drop the bottom, have fun. Kirk


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## hurricaneplumber (Apr 12, 2004)

Kirk,

I only took out 4 of the bolts and pulled down the side of the cover to access my water tank. I was just wanting a peek inside and probably won't go any farther at this point.

I have been caught doing to many camper things lately and not keeping up with the daily duties. The wife said the pool was looking a little green. Well it was more like pond scum.







I guess not running the filter and lack of chlorine has left me a real mess to clean up, first time ever in 6 years.









Hopefully I will have her relaxation tub back online by this weekend and can get back to my TT duties also. Need to find the balance somewhere. Modding is just too much fun.....









Kevin


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## aplvlykat (Jan 25, 2004)

I know what you mean. My wife told me flat out No more work on the outback untill I get caught up on house honey do's. I got to admit that yes the rooms do need painting and I have had a on going kitchen re-finishing job for the last 12 years, just hate to rush things. I guess she wants them done, speaking of done I am with the outback untill I get caught up. Kirk


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## hurricaneplumber (Apr 12, 2004)

Well I managed to get the "relaxation tub" scrubbed and clean for my bride, she now has 15000 gallons of crystal clean water to float in and sip on her margaritas this weekend. Probably while watching me finish the back porch project, which I promised to be done ready for paint this weekend.
My 2nd floor bathroom, which is in its 6th year of construction will just have to wait till winter rolls around, again. This project is lagging way behind, but then again I did find 3-1/2" of concrete in the floor to be removed. I guess in 1911 they built a concrete floor for tile backer instead of todays backer board. I removed 4 tons of tile, lath, plaster and concrete from a 7'x11' 2nd floor bathroom.

Sure am glad to have the Outback to get a long ways away from some of the projects every now and then.

We have posponed a Labor Day camping trip this year to install roughly 210 feet of sidewalk, another project 5 years in the making.

Oh well, life is still good.









Kevin


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi

Talking about water pumps got me thinking again. This can be dangerous







. Has anyone put in a water filter in their TT yet?

Thor


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## hurricaneplumber (Apr 12, 2004)

Thor,

You might want to read this article, scroll down to Water Quality section...RV Plumbing systems

I have read one article on how useless the water filters are, if I can find it again I will send it.

Kevin


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## hurricaneplumber (Apr 12, 2004)

Thor,

This one is lengthy but worth reading to gain some insight on filters and water chemicals.

This is the author where I obtained this information:
WATER TREATMENTS
phred Tinseth 
Web Site: http://www.phrannie.org

Misconceptions about Chlorine and Dual-Canister Filters

You see articles or "tips" on it in RV mags. "Just dump a lot of chlorine in the hose before you fill up and run it through two canister filters, one with a sediment cartridge, one with a charcoal cartridge." What's bad about this advice is that a lot of RVers don't know any better and do just that. Walk through any park and notice how many rigs have the two cans dangling off the hose.

The first "can," if they haven't been hooked up backwards, has a sediment filter that keeps out nothing but dirt. You need one of these because it will keep dirt out of your tank and, just as important, your pump. But you almost never see anyone changing the cartridge. Depending on the water quality, they may last six months or as little as 30 days. All sorts of crud builds up in the filters and, if they're out in the sun, algae and bacteria start growing inside.

Next, the water moves into the charcoal/carbon cartridge. Carbon will reduce bacteria, but, when it starts to load up, it grows lots of bacteria, and a lot of that passes through the filter. You can make things worse than with no filter at all if you're not careful.

Carbon filters are also more expensive than sediment filters and need to be changed more often. Hanging one outside and running all your water through it, even that to be used in the toilet, just doesn't make sense.

Carbon also reduces chlorine, and that's good, except, in many cases, RVers pour chlorine in the hose, then run it right through the charcoal filter. Think about it. The idea is to get the chlorine into the tank first, to kill bacteria in the tank, then to filter out the chlorine from the tank before you use the water.

Ideally, carbon needs to be used at the "point of use." You're going to need to change the cartridge occasionally, so don't put it where you can't get to it.

How about those little-bitty carbon filters that go right on the faucet? Most of them are worthless because the effectiveness of carbon depends on the amount of time water is in contact with it. If a fast flow of water goes through a tiny chunk of carbon, about all you'll remove is a small portion of the chlorine and such and nothing else to speak of.

Little filters at the faucet or tiny tubular filters under the sink -- as sold in most RV stores -- don't do much to start with and need to be changed too often anyway. Rather than spend a lot of money on them, you might as well strain water through a sock (or get a good system with your money). See more on charcoal/carbon filters below.

Chlorine Is a Real Puzzler.

It will kill bacteria. But at what cost? No one really knows. Chlorine is used in most municipal systems, so we're pretty well stuck with it unless we filter it out with something.

As RoVers, though, we may feel the need to chlorinate water from local sources. Don't use more than one teaspoon of Clorox, or any bleach, to less than eight or ten gallons of water, then filter the chlorine out of what you drink and cook with, and you'll probably be okay.

Recent research indicates chlorine may promote cancer. Also, chlorine may be an agent that interacts with cholesterol and such to increase the likelihood of heart disease -- and maybe anemia. Scary, isn't it? Filters can remove over 99% of chlorine if you have a clean, good (not rinky-dink) filter.

Chlorine will NOT have any effect on cysts -- like giardia or cryptosporidium. Many RVers think that adding chlorine is some kind of "cure all" -- it's not.

FILTERS AND TREATMENTS--A GENERAL DESCRIPTION OF SOME PROS AND CONS.

(First, a note on the words"eliminate," "remove" and "reduce." The words are often used interchangeably. They shouldn't be (but "removes" looks better in sales literature). The proper term is to say (something) reduces (something) by some percentage (or other measurement). Responsible sales literature/sales people will use the term "reduces" (unless something really does eliminate something). I always ask them to prove it.

Charcoal or Carbon filters--There are carbon filters and then there are carbon filters. Some are worthless and some will do most of what needs to be done. It's common to see an RVer with two cheap canister filters dangling off his rig-one for sediment and one for charcoal (as covered above). If the RVer realizes this is only the most minimal protection, that's his business. It's pathetic, though, when the naÃ¯ve guy says something like, "The salesman told me this is all I need and it will purify my water." What a bunch of baloney!

The basic charcoal filter, as often used in canisters, is a mesh type thing that's gray in color, doesn't cost much and doesn't do much of anything more than the sediment filter except improve taste a little and remove odor to some extent. And that's the way it goes. Better charcoal filter cartridges use other carbon materials and can be most effective. There are cartridges that will fit in a standard canister that use Activated Carbon (see below). You can recognize them: by cost and note that they won't be "open" at the sides like the el-cheapos, but sealed except for in and out holes top and bottom.

Next is powdered, loose charcoal just crammed in a piece of plastic pipe with water fittings on each end. (You see RVers making these to sell to equally ignorant RVers.) They're better than nothing, but water makes "tracks" through the loose charcoal. Very little water then actually comes in intimate contact with the charcoal (which is what the whole thing is supposed to be about) and the result is ineffective filtering. Some of these leak little black specks into your water also.

Next up is Activated Carbon. Most adequate or good carbon filters will use this. It can be quite effective and approach the efficiency of solid-block carbon (below). Activated carbon is made from any number of carbon based materials. (No, you can't do it at home.) The manufacturing process results in an extremely dense carbon with countless microsopic pores that water comes in contact with. This is what carbon filtration is all about as the undesirables are unable to pass through. And this, not the lesser charcoal/carbon versions above, will reduce much of the chlorine. Other nasties (bacteria) will be reduced too (see later).

The effectiveness of these filters depends on several things: How well they're made -- some have intricate passages so the water stays in contact with the carbon as long as possible. Contact time is important (and why those tiny end-of-faucet filters don't do much). Some incorporate stages where one or more additional substances also help filtering.

Much of their effectiveness depends on the user! If you put dirty water in, you'll clog the thing up soon. Overuse before changing cartridges means clogging and it also means that instead of preventing bacteria from coming through, the thing will actually promote the growth of bacteria.

Solid-Block Carbon. Another manufacturing process but one which bonds carbon particles to a second substance resulting in an extremely dense solid block. In this form, impurities have maximum contact with the carbon. Activated carbon will reduce "some" bacteria. Solid carbon will reduce more and reduce chlorine by over 99% if the filter is well made. Solid-Block is more expensive, can get clogged up easier and the cartridge will usually be larger because it also holds the bonding substance.

Both Activated and Solid-Block Carbon Filters--depend on incoming water that has no sediment in it and has no heavy organic matter (decayed vegetation) in it. If you fill them with pond water, you'll load them up fast. Both, in conjunction with a sediment filter, can do most of what's needed.

Ceramic filter--will remove most bugs/germs: virus, giardia, cholera -- you name it. (You can get drinkable water out of a swamp or animal watering hole. They're used in places like Africa by World Health Organization workers and similar UN agencies.) They need frequent but easy cleaning. They will not remove salt or heavy metals (lead, mercury, etc.). Most are quite small (intended for back-packers) and are intended to be pumped by hand (a quart of water in about 1Â½ minutes). They're expensive. They can be mounted on a sink rim and an RV water line connected through a valve. When the valve is open, the RV pump runs water through the filter (no hand pumping) and fills your jug twice as fast. Serious back-packers consider these a necessity so, if you have one, you might as well use it in the RV as well.

Reverse Osmosis (R.O.)--Water is forced through a membrane. If done properly, it will remove or reduce salt and other minerals, heavy metals, asbestos, some microorganisms, and more. In conjunction with the ceramic filter and/or a good carbon filter, it will remove pretty much everything you really need to worry about. Some people think it removes too much, as some of the minerals it removes are considered beneficial. Water without any minerals tastes a bit flat.

One problem with R.O. is that effectiveness varies widely with design of unit, type of membrane, pressure, etc. Many R.O. units sold to RVers simply won't do the job (typical RVers won't pay for a good one). Fairly good R.O. will require over 40 pounds of water pressure to work (most RVs don't have that much).

A critical R.O. fault in RVs is that they dump up to 4 (in some cases, as much as 20) gallons of water (called "brine" with good reason) for every gallon they purify. Totally unacceptable in the boonies where you're the guy that hauls the water in. R.O. works well on boats and for RVers who are parked next to a water source (like on a beach in Mexico). Unfortunately, the small, less expensive units take a LONG time to produce just a couple of gallons. Units that will provide over 30 gallons a day, right out of the ocean, are small and use only a nominal amount of 12VDC. However, they cost about $2,000 (Yikes!). The reason they cost so much is that they use a super-efficient membrane and have an internal pump that produces about 2,000 psi. That's what you really need to do the job right. Incidentally, R.O. membranes need to be replaced occasionally and are much more expensive than filter cartridges. R.O., in a unit that will really do the job, is not a choice for the casual RVer.

Distillation--will remove salt! -- and other minerals. Similar to R.O. above, in this respect, some people don't like the flat taste. But salt is of interest to people with heart problems. It will also remove microorganisms, but will make even more if you have a poorly designed unit that doesn't cool the output fast enough to avoid recontamination. It will remove many toxins also, but not all. Some will be carried over in the steam which, by the way, can be a real problem with some units if run indoors.

Maintenance can be a chore with some distillers as mineral deposits build up. The biggest fault with distillers is the need for lots of electrical power although one, small stovetop/campfire unit is available (I've seen ads in magazines, but have no idea how effective it really is). Solar distillers work well, but they're big. Too big for most RVs. Homemade ones are easily recontaminated with bacteria. All the above usually makes distillation less than attractive in RVs -- unless you've a heart problem and really need it.

Ultra-violet systems (UV)--use an ultra-violet light to defeat microorganisms. These can be quite effective but depend on water that has no particulates in it that hides the "bugs" from the light so you have to have really clear water in your tank. A more severe problem is that the ultra-violet light runs almost all the time at 120VAC and uses at least 30 watts. When away from commercial power, you wouldn't want to run a generator that much and an inverter would use a constant 2Â½ amps DC from your batteries to power the light. This pretty well eliminates UV as a convenient RV choice. The UV light can be turned off, but then you don't really purify. Some RVers use UV when filling the tank or water jugs, then turn the light off and turn it back on periodically to "refresh" the system. When they have access to water, they usually have electricity as well, so can leave the UV running.

Ozone purifiers--that generate a very small (safe) amount of ozone and inject it into your water will kill such things as bacteria, viruses (virtually all forms of other microbes) and molds. Ozone contributes to breaking down some chemicals into lesser components. Ozone also works well against odor and color causing agents.

Of key importance, ozone works better, safer and much faster than chlorine (bleach). If you use an ozone purifier, you don't need to add chlorine in the first place (though you'll still get some when filling your tank from most municipal water systems).

A typical ozone unit is small, easily portable and easily mounted in an RV. The actual ozone "injector" is a small device in the unit or at the end of flexible tubing. The end of the tubing can be inserted into the RV tank and also into water jugs. It does use 120VAC, but only has to be turned on as needed. A typical ozone unit will purify a 50 gal RV tank in 20-30 minutes and if the water is just sitting in the tank, the process only needs to be done about every two weeks (under normal conditions). You can purify the water in a 2 gal jug in as little as 5 minutes. Most users go 15 min on a jug to be extra safe since the electricity used (the equivalent of 5 amps DC) is minimal for such a short time. Ozone purifiers, because of the short time they actually need power, are excellent for use with inverter or generator-produced AC power. A good ozone purifier for RV use (with the movable tubing described above) is not inexpensive (at about $430) but not outrageously expensive either. You can economize with an ozone unit intended for "houses." The ozone injector will usually be fixed in place in a counter-top "tub." The tub takes up too much space and needs to be emptied into jugs when travelling. Not too convenient, but cheaper. In conjunction with a cheap sediment filter (to keep crud out of the system) and a good carbon filter, it's probably the best combination of systems for RV use.

Combination units.

As you can see, everything will do something, but nothing will do everything. You'll see various "combination" units for sale. Many of them are nothing more than the two (sediment and charcoal) canisters mentioned earlier just with a fancy mounting. Others have three canisters (with the same stuff). There are, though, some good ones. Look for three cans with three different elements for three different purposes. There are some obvious problems with combination units that are unique to RVs. Mounting one of these ready-made, all-in-one units between the water inlet and tank means all your water, even toilet flushing water is run through filters or whatever else is in there (and sometimes that's OK). Mounting it between tank and cold water line in RV will do the same and means tank will be filled with sediment unless you use another, single sediment filter before water goes in the tank. And so on.

Set up your own combination Unit?

First, get rid of sediment (dirt and rust) with an inexpensive sediment filter before you put water in the tank. Keep the can out of the sun or nasties will grow in it and sunlight will deteriorate the plastic. Next, decide what's important to you. Germs and such only? Then put a ceramic or certain types (not all have the capacity) of carbon filter in the line to kitchen (and bathroom if you want a nice installation), cold water faucet for drinking and cooking water. Use an ozone purifier to kill bacteria, etc., in the tank before it goes anywhere. You'll have as good a system as you can get without spending an outrageous amount of money.

You probably won't filter water to the shower, but breathing in chlorine when showering can be worse than drinking the stuff (chlorine dangers are not to be taken lightly). There are a number of small, effective, inexpensive shower-head filters just for this purpose. They're intended to be screwed into the shower outlet in a home. And most RVs don't have one, but have a flexible shower line with nozzle. Get around this by buying a second flexible shower line. Run one line to filter. Mount, clamp, hang -- whatever -- the filter in the shower and run the second line to the shower nozzle.

RATING FILTERS AND PURIFICATION DEVICES

Throughout the above, I've "qualified" my statements as to what filters will do with phrases like "good ones will do...." etc. How do you tell which is a good one? Filters are (supposed to be) tested by laboratories. "Good" filter manufacturers will want to show you their test results (and brag about) the long list of nasties the thing can handle. (In some states the laws require that they do so.) They'll also want to show you the test results from the competition so you can compare for yourself. If any salesman can't or doesn't want to show you test results, go away fast.

But there are test results and then there are test results. The most authoritative results come from the manufacturer submitting a filter for certification to the NSF (National Sanitation Foundation). This outfit doesn't kid around. If they say a filter will reduce xyz by abc%, then that's at least what it will do. NSF testing is rigid and expensive. Some manufacturers choose not to use NSF. Some have a great filter that's so new it hasn't been NSF tested yet. Some use independent labs. None of these means you should condemn them -- just be cautious. Even the NSF certification should be carefully read. Filter abc might legitimately say it's NSF certified. But for what? The test results list the "for what." One major manufacturer of RV pumps and water accessories brags about their NSF certification. The actual test results show it as certified only for taste, odor and chlorine. That's no big deal. Independent/private labs can provide valid test results. Read them carefully also. Be very careful to read the notes as well. I saw a test result from a major manufacturer that said (hidden in the notes) something like "filter media replaced with a substitute for this test." What that tells you is they took some other filter cartridge and stuck it in their container. In short, it tells you nothing.

In order to read the test results, there are some technical terms you need to know. I know, this isn't any fun, but it's not difficult. These are just the basic ones:

Micron--A millionth of a meter. Used to indicate size of a particle (or anything else) a filter will allow to pass through (or not pass through). As an example, a Giardia will usually be from 3 to 5 microns in size.

VOC--Volatile Organic Chemical. An organic chemical which can easily dissipate or evaporate and get to you. Some filter tests will just show "VOC Reduction." Others will list "VOC Reduction" and specific VOCs reduced. There are at least 42 basic ones usually tested for, some with subcategories as well. Some VOCs, like benzene and carbon tetrachloride are pretty nasty stuff. Included with VOCs are the Trihalomethanes (THM see below).

THM--Trihalomethanes. One of the classes of VOCs, but often listed separately in test results. THMs are created as a result of water chlorination. They are "thought" to be carcinogenic. They (chlorine) can be removed with a good activated carbon or solid carbon block filter. The term TTHN is sometimes seen. I think it means Total THN. Beats the hell out of me.

Inorganic Chemicals--Chemicals that are not from living matter and do not contain carbon (like flouride, minerals and metals).

Organic Chemicals--Chemicals containing carbon. Natural organics come from animal and plant life and include coal and oil. Synthetics are those made/refined by man such as pesticides.

TDS--Total Dissolved Solids. The sum of all organic and inorganic particulates. This test is usually done on sewage but is also sometimes used to test well water and to indicate the mineral content of water.

Turbidity--Particles suspended in water. At least, it's dirt that screws up your pump. At an extreme, water becomes very cloudy. Of concern is that toxic chemicals attach themselves to these particles and go along for the ride (into us).

Cysts--Giardia is a cyst (there are others).

Cryptic numbers (to us)--like 2,4-D and similar often refer to pesticides and are listed under VOCs or THMs.

NSF Standards--are numbered categories under which filters are subjected to tests. Tests vary depending on type of filter. Many manufacturers/sellers cheat on this. They state that their filter "...meets NSF standards," when it might only meet one.

#42 = Drinking Water--Esthetic Effects e.g., taste and odor. This is the only test many manufacturers use. 
#53 = Drinking Water--Health effects. This is the main test. It lists the really nasty stuff a filter reduces.
#55 = UV Filters
#58 = R.O. Filters
#62 = Distillers

QUESTIONS To Ask When Shopping for a Filter or Other Device:

These don't pertain to the inexpensive sediment (rust and dirt) canisters that you can get at any hardware store -- because if you've bothered to read this far, you know that those filters only remove dirt and rust.

Is the device NSF certified/listed? Standard #42? #53? Both?

If not, what test results are available?

(Referring to the test results) Can you show me the range of contaminents reduced? This is why you need to know the terms listed earlier.

Can you show me your Performance Data Sheets? Some state laws require that you be provided these. Any manufacturer that's any good will have them and sales people should be glad to give them to you.

How many gallons will it handle before replacing the cartridge? (Sales people call this "Service Cycle," but who cares?) A responsible sales person will respond with a conservative figure like about 500 gallons and may tell you they've actually tested it at 1,000 gallons but they don't know what kind of water you'll be running through it and can't be precise.

What is the cost for replacement cartridges? And are they readily available? If the filter's good, cartridges won't be cheap, but you don't want to get surprised later. On the other hand, if it's only a few dollars, you're looking at an el-cheapo that's not going to do much. An exception is sediment-only cartridges that should be about $7.

What's the flow rate? You want to have a flow rate of about Â¾ gallons per minute. A half gal is too slow except for the small back-packing ceramic filter described. One gallon might mean the water is flowing through too fast for good contact time with carbon filters.

WHAT I USE. I hate to list this because people sometimes think I'm peddling filters. But if I don't they write and ask.

I use an inexpensive (hardware store) canister filter with sediment cartridge for all water entering my RV. It's kept in a compartment and out of the weather. Flexible lines allow it to be pulled out for easy, no spills, cartridge changes. Replacement cartridges are available at any hardware store. They're inexpensive and I change them as often as needed. You do NOT want dirt and sediment in your water system or pump.

I do not fill my tank through the usual RV "hole in the wall." That's how RVers get insects and other nasties in their tank. I fill tank through the normal city water connection. Inside the RV are valves. One sends city water to the RV plumbing. The other sends water to the tank. Yet another opens a vent to under the RV so the tank won't expand and burst. Some RVers don't put a valve on the vent (thinking they might forget to open it). That's how bugs creep in to the tank. Note that some RVs don't even have a separate vent but rely on air escaping through the fill hole. That's chintzy. Adding a proper vent is easy.

Water for drinking and cooking (city or tank) is run to an under-the-counter composite filter. (I prefer the Multi-Pure brand -- though there are many excellent filters of this type -- because of its efficiency and quality of construction and use them in both house and RV.) From the filter, separate lines run to spring-loaded faucets at kitchen and bath sink made for filter use. Do NOT attempt to filter hot water except with shower filters that are designed to handle the temperature.

For a time I used the less expensive counter-top model filter. It's cheaper and performs identically to the under-the-counter, but securing it for travel was an annoyance. Counter-top models are not water savers either. They operate from a diverter at the faucet spout. You have to first turn on the faucet, then pull the easily-failing diverter (wasted water). They also let a little water run out after the faucet is turned off and tend to dribble at times (and then your pump comes on -- usually in the middle of the night). The separate faucets mentioned above, have a positive, crisp on/off and don't waste water.

I use a composite material shower filter. It's quite efficient and there's no crud or chlorine. Good ones are available in hardware stores. Read the specs on the box (they're not all that complex) but stay away from those that are obviously so tiny that the contact time is too short.

I am now planning to install an ozone purifier. Some are easily mounted and then easily dismounted and moved into the house, small, light and reasonably priced. Plumbing is simple


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

Kevin

All I can say is THANKS














!!! I actually printed a hard copy for this one. You put in a lot of effort. Thanks!! I got some reading to do and options to think about. So far I have only filled up with residential city water.

Thor


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