# Propane System



## funbikerchick (Jun 6, 2011)

OK. I believe that I am supposed to open the valves for both propane tanks and the tank where the auto select valve points will have a green dot and the gas should pull only from that tank. When that tank runs out, the green dot switches to red to alert me and the system automatically pulls from the other tank. This would allow me ample time to fill the other tank before running out.

However,when I open both tanks, I can actually hear the gas being pulled from both tanks simultaneously when the heater is running. Is there some trick I am missing to make it work as described above? Usually I just turn on one tank and manually switch when to the other when it runs out. However, when using the tanks for heat, I don't want to find myselft running out of one tank in the middle of the night so I would like to be able to rely upon the auto select feature.

I appreciate any insight one can provide.

Thanks.

Tena


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## LaydBack (Aug 22, 2010)

funbikerchick said:


> OK. I believe that I am supposed to open the valves for both propane tanks and the tank where the auto select valve points will have a green dot and the gas should pull only from that tank. When that tank runs out, the green dot switches to red to alert me and the system automatically pulls from the other tank. This would allow me ample time to fill the other tank before running out.
> 
> However,when I open both tanks, I can actually hear the gas being pulled from both tanks simultaneously when the heater is running. Is there some trick I am missing to make it work as described above? Usually I just turn on one tank and manually switch when to the other when it runs out. However, when using the tanks for heat, I don't want to find myselft running out of one tank in the middle of the night so I would like to be able to rely upon the auto select feature.
> 
> ...


My understanding is that the auto select can only make to one or the other, and not both simultaneously. How are you arriving at what you are hearing is gas coming from both tanks? Not questioning or debating, I just don't know how I would be able to differentiate, other than in a situation where the gas is being consumed fast enough that I could verify it by frost on the tank, or tank temperature. Otherwise, I agree with the understanding that you have of how it works. You just have to remember which one the green dot was on, from observation to observation.


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## duggy (Mar 17, 2010)

On mine, it drained the tank that the arrow was pointing to, but the indicator didn't change color. The other tank was about 3/4 full when I noticed the selected one was empty. Now I have the arrow pointing to the 3/4 full tank, and the empty one has been filled.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

The valves have been know to fail but you can test them easy enough. BTW they work on pressure differential. If it is cold enough when running the furnace the online tank pressure could drop enough that the selector valve sees it as empty and begin to add flow from the off line tank. It may use some but will be significantly behind the online tank in flow. Once the online tank is completely empty then the indicator will switch and at that time it could already be down a 1/4 of a tank but still have plenty so you can have time to fill the empty tank.


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## funbikerchick (Jun 6, 2011)

I had the heat running and put my ear to each side of the tanks and could hear the gas exiting on each side. I then turned off the tank where the arrow wasn't pointing and the other tank very quickly drained. I think perhaps the explanation provided by Camper Andy. I will fill the one tank today and have the arrow pointing at the other and see if I still detect it flowing from both. If not, I will assume Camper Andy to be correct. If so, I will call Keystone.

Thanks for all the comments. This site is awesome because you all rock!


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## funbikerchick (Jun 6, 2011)

Andy, how do I test the valves to see if they have failed. I think it is more likely as you said regarding temperature and pressure differential, but it would be nice to be sure.


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## LaydBack (Aug 22, 2010)

CamperAndy said:


> I had the heat running and put my ear to each side of the tanks and could hear the gas exiting on each side. I then turned off the tank where the arrow wasn't pointing and the other tank very quickly drained. I think perhaps the explanation provided by Camper Andy. I will fill the one tank today and have the arrow pointing at the other and see if I still detect it flowing from both. If not, I will assume Camper Andy to be correct. If so, I will call Keystone.
> 
> Thanks for all the comments. This site is awesome because you all rock!


Good information. I will have to pay closer attention to my tanks. I always hear it, but I've always assumed it was only flowing from 1 tank. Too bad that they don't have an accurate propane gauge system.


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## funbikerchick (Jun 6, 2011)

srwsr said:


> I had the heat running and put my ear to each side of the tanks and could hear the gas exiting on each side. I then turned off the tank where the arrow wasn't pointing and the other tank very quickly drained. I think perhaps the explanation provided by Camper Andy. I will fill the one tank today and have the arrow pointing at the other and see if I still detect it flowing from both. If not, I will assume Camper Andy to be correct. If so, I will call Keystone.
> 
> Thanks for all the comments. This site is awesome because you all rock!


Good information. I will have to pay closer attention to my tanks. I always hear it, but I've always assumed it was only flowing from 1 tank. Too bad that they don't have an accurate propane gauge system.
[/quote]

Well, now I am not sure if it is pulling from one tank of two. It certainly sounds like two, but when I shut one off I don't really hear a discernable difference, so it may be one.

I do know that when I shut off the one the arrow is pointing to and turn on the other tank, it pulls from that tank. However, the green dot never changes so I have no idea how I would ever know that I was running on the second tank. Therefore, I am running on one tank with the other turned off and will just have to hope it isn't the middle of a cold night when the tank runs empty. When it does run empty I will manually switch to the other tank.

Tena


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## CdnOutback (Apr 16, 2010)

I only open one tank at a time... that way I know my propane situation. I ran out completely on our first trip when it was near freezing at night...


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Okay, I will try to be as clear as I can on this.

Normal operation,

Both tanks open and the pointer to the right. Indicator is green. As the right tank drains and there is a DP between the left and the right of about 5 or 10 psi (depends on the valve and the manufacture) the indicator will turn red and the left tank will begin to flow.

Switch the pointer to the left tank and the indicator will go green. At this point you should be able to disconnect the right tank (close the valve first) and take it to be refilled.

Normal tank pressure is around 100 psi at 70 degrees but can drop to only 10 psi at -20 (your furnace only uses 11 "wc so you still should have plenty of gas). At -20 you will most likely be feeding some gas from both tanks but once the primary tank drops low enough the the DP will drop on the primary tank and the standby tank will begin to flow as the primary.

To test the switch over valve,

Both tanks full and open. Pointer to the right. Furnace running.

Slowly close the right tank. The indicator should go red and the furnace stay running.

Move pointer to the left and the indicator should go green. Open tank on the right.

Slowly close tank on the left and the indicator should go from green to red and the furnace should still stay running.

Open valve on left. Move point back to the right, indicator should turn green and test is more or less done.


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## duggy (Mar 17, 2010)

Andy, the way you're describing is exactly the way my 2005 Surveyor TT was. However, on the 2011 Outback, the indicator doesn't change color when the selected tank is empty. It does however, empty the selected tank before drawing from the other tank. I haven't even emptied my second tank yet, after two seasons of camping, so it isn't a big deal for me that the color doesn't change. About once a month, I just pop the cover, undo the big wing nut, and check the weight of the tanks. That was the reason my second tank was down to about 3/4 before I realized the first was empty. I wanted to be sure the full tank was getting lighter.


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## raynardo (Jun 8, 2007)

I'm leery of this automatic switch over system.

I have the selector pointed at the only tank open. When it runs out, I do four things:

turn off the empty tank
open the full tank
move the selector to the open tank
take the empty tank to get it refilled
This manual system works extremely well for me.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

duggy said:


> Andy, the way you're describing is exactly the way my 2005 Surveyor TT was. However, on the 2011 Outback, the indicator doesn't change color when the selected tank is empty.


That is a bad valve or a very bad decision by keystone to use a valve without an empty indicator.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

raynardo said:


> I'm leery of this automatic switch over system.
> 
> I have the selector pointed at the only tank open. When it runs out, I do four things:
> 
> ...


I use 3 to 4 tanks a year and I have never run with one tank closed. Last thing I want is to have a tank go dry in the middle of the night and I have to open valves and then have to worry about purging gas lines. Leave it in automatic and every morning check the indicator. I do a walk around inspection of the trailer every morning to check for critters and the damage they can do so it is no big deal to check the indicator to see if it has moved. The automatic system works for me.


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## funbikerchick (Jun 6, 2011)

Andy, Using your testing method, my system will pull from the other tank once the current one is closed. However, the indicator dot never changes. I agree that I would rather not have to get up in the middle of the night, but at the same time it is better to have that as an alternative than it is for both tanks to run dry because I wasn't aware that the one the arrow is pointing to has been emptied.

Now, my test began with the arrow pointing to the tank on the left (as I face the camper). Would that make a difference?

Mine is also a 2011 Outback. Maybe this should end up a recall issue.

Tena


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## CdnOutback (Apr 16, 2010)

raynardo said:


> I'm leery of this automatic switch over system.
> 
> I have the selector pointed at the only tank open. When it runs out, I do four things:
> 
> ...


Exactly what I do...Works extremely well!


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

funbikerchick said:


> Andy, Using your testing method, my system will pull from the other tank once the current one is closed. However, the indicator dot never changes. I agree that I would rather not have to get up in the middle of the night, but at the same time it is better to have that as an alternative than it is for both tanks to run dry because I wasn't aware that the one the arrow is pointing to has been emptied.
> 
> Now, my test began with the arrow pointing to the tank on the left (as I face the camper). Would that make a difference?
> 
> ...


As for the test starting on the left or right it does not matter it is just the you close the left valve first instead of the right valve. If the indicator does not change from green to red then the valve is not good or as may have been suggested earlier, Keystone has cheaped out and started using valves with out empty indicators.

Does the indicator ever turn colors?


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## duggy (Mar 17, 2010)

CdnOutback said:


> I'm leery of this automatic switch over system.
> 
> I have the selector pointed at the only tank open. When it runs out, I do four things:
> 
> ...


Exactly what I do...Works extremely well!
[/quote]

Our friends who we camp with, use this method. Twice they've had a cold night because the tank ran out, and he didn't want to go out in the cold dark night at 2:00 AM, to switch the tanks. I bite my lip and wonder why he doesn't turn on both tanks and get a good nights sleep.

I guess whatever you're comfortable with. My tanks take so long to drain, that I have no fears about running them both dry, before I realize one is empty. I only use the furnace to supplement electric heat. I've never tried dry camping in the cold, and will avoid it if I can.


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## funbikerchick (Jun 6, 2011)

OK. I bought a new auto-transfer regulator system for my trailer. When I took off the OEM one, I discovered that there is no physical way for the color of the dot to change from green to red. On one side of the valve there is a green dot that cannot be moved or changed. The other side has an open hole which reveals the red dot that is present on both sides of the valve regulator. All this system does is show you which side your intending to draw gas from first and then it will automatically draw from the other side if you run out. However, you are on your own in determining when you end up emptying the first tank.

My new valve works like a charm! It was a pain in the butt installing it, though. First, I couldn't get one of the lines off that runs from the tank to the regulator. Actually had to buy a new one because in my efforts to remove it, I completely stripped the fitting and it still wouldn't budge. Then I had to get a new mounting plate and had new holes drilled in it to mount the regulator. My existing one was too short so I couldn't just drill new holes in it. Then got home to find out that the thing wouldn't fit over the shaft! I ended up making three trips to the RV place and one to Home Depot, but I am finally all set. No more worries regarding propane.

Now, I need to get a new tank cover, though, because I can't see the front of the valve when the cover is on. I need to get one that has a drop down front.

Tena


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## john7349 (Jan 13, 2008)

funbikerchick said:


> OK. I bought a new auto-transfer regulator system for my trailer. When I took off the OEM one, I discovered that there is no physical way for the color of the dot to change from green to red. On one side of the valve there is a green dot that cannot be moved or changed. The other side has an open hole which reveals the red dot that is present on both sides of the valve regulator. All this system does is show you which side your intending to draw gas from first and then it will automatically draw from the other side if you run out. However, you are on your own in determining when you end up emptying the first tank.
> 
> My new valve works like a charm! It was a pain in the butt installing it, though. First, I couldn't get one of the lines off that runs from the tank to the regulator. Actually had to buy a new one because in my efforts to remove it, I completely stripped the fitting and it still wouldn't budge. Then I had to get a new mounting plate and had new holes drilled in it to mount the regulator. My existing one was too short so I couldn't just drill new holes in it. Then got home to find out that the thing wouldn't fit over the shaft! I ended up making three trips to the RV place and one to Home Depot, but I am finally all set. No more worries regarding propane.
> 
> ...


Any chance of posting a picture of each valve? You have my curiosity up! I thought they would all be the same from Keystone....


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## funbikerchick (Jun 6, 2011)

john7349 said:


> OK. I bought a new auto-transfer regulator system for my trailer. When I took off the OEM one, I discovered that there is no physical way for the color of the dot to change from green to red. On one side of the valve there is a green dot that cannot be moved or changed. The other side has an open hole which reveals the red dot that is present on both sides of the valve regulator. All this system does is show you which side your intending to draw gas from first and then it will automatically draw from the other side if you run out. However, you are on your own in determining when you end up emptying the first tank.
> 
> My new valve works like a charm! It was a pain in the butt installing it, though. First, I couldn't get one of the lines off that runs from the tank to the regulator. Actually had to buy a new one because in my efforts to remove it, I completely stripped the fitting and it still wouldn't budge. Then I had to get a new mounting plate and had new holes drilled in it to mount the regulator. My existing one was too short so I couldn't just drill new holes in it. Then got home to find out that the thing wouldn't fit over the shaft! I ended up making three trips to the RV place and one to Home Depot, but I am finally all set. No more worries regarding propane.
> 
> ...


Any chance of posting a picture of each valve? You have my curiosity up! I thought they would all be the same from Keystone....








[/quote]

Sorry, but I threw the OEM one away. (I am staying full time in my TT for three months and have no room to store unnecessary items.) However, perhaps camperandy, or someone else with one that does change color, can post theirs and I could describe the difference between that one and the one that came with my Outback. Also, anyone else with one that doesn't change colors could see the difference for themselves.

Tena


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## Lonerider (Jul 22, 2010)

I have a 2011 280RS and mine don't have a empty indicator either just red and green dots to show which tank it is drawing from. So yes Keystone has gotten cheap


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## duggy (Mar 17, 2010)

Lonerider said:


> I have a 2011 280RS and mine don't have a empty indicator either just red and green dots to show which tank it is drawing from. So yes Keystone has gotten cheap


My bet is the switch to a cheaper regulator probably saved Keystone about a dollar!


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## funbikerchick (Jun 6, 2011)

Well, I can tell you that the retail cost for a system that switches and lets you know the tank is empty was only $49. So, in bulk they would be pretty inexpensive.


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