# Tt + Tv Considerations



## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Hi everyone! Incredible site you all have here, want to say thank you first off for allowing us to post and ask questions (of which we have many). We are strongly considering a TT as we want to go camping and enjoy some family time and have fun. I have never pulled a TT before and am very concerned that we pick one that will go well with my experience level (very little except for towing a car on a 16ft car hauler that had no brakes) and our vehicle's capability. Our TV is a 2002 Ford Supercrew with a 5.4l and 3.55 gears. Tires are Firestone Destination LE's at 265/70 which makes them slightly oversize from stock (255/70) - just under an inch taller. Max TT is 8300. GCVWR is 12,500. I wanted to change gears to 3.73's but my buddy who used to work for Ford assembling rear ends had his shop incinerated when a nearby propane tank company had a little problem one day earlier this year. Dealership wants $1200. Forget that.

Boy you sure do get misled from just looking at vehicle tow ratings and the weight of the TT's you are considering. Originally we thought we were in great shape and the local dealer was going to sell us this overpriced behemoth of a Jayco. Since then, we have done a bunch of research and it "scared" us back into reality. After talking to some good dealerships that you folks recommended (Lakeshore and Tiara), a hitch shop, getting our truck weighed down at the cotton co-op and using that online weight calculator, we learned that realistically, we should look at 5300lb TT's and under. One guy at Tiara even suggested 5,000 and under. BTW - all this research sure does make me want a 3/4 ton Diesel. I even got my 3 yr. old little girl saying "Daddy, we need to go look at TURBO DIESELS!!!" I always say "of course we can baby" while getting "the look" from mama (I finally figured out that the proper nomenclature around the camping crowd is DW - took a while to figure that out hehe). Really though, it has been a ton of fun and we are very excited.

I want to know what you experienced folks think about what we are considering. Matt at Lakeshore is a heck of a great guy btw. We are looking at the 26RS or possibly waiting a bit for the 26KBRS. Those trailers run around 5300lbs and have similar tongue weights of 530/550lbs. I would like an Equalizer hitch and a Prodigy brake controller. We live on the high plains of West Texas (3200ft) and we have winds here pretty regular and driving under 25-40mph winds, especially during the spring, is not uncommon. Given where we are at with our tow vehicle, do you folks think that we would be ok with the trailers we are interested in? I think that we would be ok but that we should take it easy on the "ambitious adventures" until I can get a bigger TV.

Thank you all,

Curtis


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## out4fun (Aug 22, 2006)

Hi Curtis









Congrats on finding this forum you will find a lot of good info and people here.
I have a 26RS and tow with a 2004 F250SD 5.4 it tows really well and safely but lacks power on tall hills. 
I love our 26RS.

Angelo


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

We have the 26RS and love it
You may be fine on flat lands but when it comes to big hills your not gonna like it 
and you'll wish you had a bigger TV

Don


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

3.55's and 5.4L towing a 26'? You can do it but you probably won't like it for too long. I think your going to have to be very patient and determined to keep that combo for a good amount of time.

Look for the 26' to be a fair piece higher then 5300 lbs. With full camping load I'm thinking closer to 6000lbs. For comparitive purposes my 21RS probably goes 5300lbs if I go camping for a week.


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

You'll soon learn to hate those 3.55's


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

I agree with NJMikeC. You'll probably get buy OK on the short distance trips. I would suggest a tranny temp guage and changing to synthetic tranny fluid if you decide to keep your current tow vehicle. But driving up bigger grades & long trips you will be dissapointed with the power and gas milage. You're probably in the 6-8 mpg range right now and a diesel can get you 10-13. I live in Oklahoma with constant winds similiar to yours - seems to be an abnormanl day when there is no wind! But a 3/4 ton pick-up will definitely help handle the crosswinds better, a whole lot less white nuckle travel.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Welcome to the site! Glad you're here.

Seems you are doing the best thing and looking into this before you buy. We decided on the 28RSS for the bunkhouse and the side slide.

From your post it appear you have one child...which will be fine with either of the models you picked.

Have to say your current TV is going to be stressed to tow the Outbacks you want, but if you stay in Texas (meaning in mostly flat land) you'll be "ok", but you'll be wanting another 4-6" of gas pedal depth, as you just won't have all the power you'll need.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

*Welcome to Outbackers, collinsfam_tx!*








Glad you found us!









You are smart in realizing that your dealer can't be trusted as to what your truck is capable of pulling. That's a pretty nice rig, but the rear end ratio is just a killer. You may not like the idea of dropping $1,200 on a new gear set, but the cost of repairing or replacing the rest of the drive-train from abuse could easily eclipse that!

I think you would do OK with a lightweight 26 (like an Outback







) in the flat lands, but I sure would not go any larger. And if you have any desire to hit the mountains, you will have to do something about the truck. Sorry.









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

First of all, I wanted to welcome you to Outbackers.

Sounds like you have a nice family and great little girl. It's wonderful to see you doing all the research before making a decision. Your camping experiences and safety will thank you later. The others posted to your truck's ability to tow so not much to add to that. Glad you're looking at 26 or smaller sized models. Good luck with your search in finding the best combo for your family. You should be pleased with the Equalizer and Prodigy.


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## Scrib (Jun 28, 2005)

Welcome aboard! If your truck is 2WD, you should be able to get a 4.10 gear installed for about $500. Check with a drivetrain shop or a 4x4 shop - those are the best places to have this done. Dealerships are usually not a good place to have this done, unless they do alot of them (which is rare). You will want to make sure they can recalibrate the speedometer, or you will need to purhase a tuner (Superchips, Edge, etc. all about $250). Good luck!


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## GeoWalls (Jun 3, 2006)

Welcome to the site! I agree with all of the above. I had pretty much the same setup in a Ford Expedition when I bought our 21rs. It has more room then the Motorhome I traded in. We used it to tow the TT out to South Dakota and back along with other trips and even on small hills I was really disappointed with the TV. However we are very happy with the TT, and really happy with the Equal-i-zer and prodigy setup.

Jeff


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Thank you very much for your help. I think you folks more or less confirmed what my wife and I already know. So is this more or less accurate?

Our "old" 2 valve 5.4 mod motor just isn't going to "cut it" when pulling dang near any TT with these 3.55 gears.

In addition to that, if we do find a place to put say, 4.10 gears into our truck, we are going to have a much happier and safer towing experience if we keep to something like a 21RS or a 23RS (3-4' shorter and several hundred pounds lighter).

Does that about sum it up?

Something I should have mentioned that is pretty important to this conversation is the following: One of our "targets" for camping are weekend trips to Palo Duro canyon. Palo Duro is the 2nd largest canyon in the US and the road going in and out has a 6% grade. The road out isn't long but it is steep. Another place I know we would like to go is to the mountains of Eastern New Mexico. I guess you could say that we live on flat ground and would like to camp on something a bit different









It appears that plenty of folks do pull 26' trailers with 1/2 tons, but it sounds like that from your folks' experience, we would not feel happy or safe unless we went with a smaller model (both length and weight) trailer and got 4.10's. I just talked to a guy that has worked on various hotrods for me and he could do the gear swap for a good price so that is an option again. He pulls travel trailers and he said we should go all the way to 4.10's.

Maybe my little girl will get her wish after all. Those 08 SD's with that 6.4 International look sharp.

Thank you,

Curtis


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

*You definitely will not be happy with your current tow vehicles setup on 6% grades. In fact you might stress out the tranny to the breaking point as you will struggle to go 25 MPH uphill. How many miles are on the truck now? Many 1/2 ton owners (including myself) had spent alot of money on replacing/repairing the tranny after hitting the hills with the camper.

Just don't want to see you dump 2K on a new tranny then wind up trading the truck in for a bigger tow vehicle anyway. That's what happened to me









Check out this post also in the towing issues & vehicles forum:

http://www.outbackers.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12536 *


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## 3LEES (Feb 18, 2006)

collinsfam_tx said:


> Thank you very much for your help. I think you folks more or less confirmed what my wife and I already know. So is this more or less accurate?
> 
> Our "old" 2 valve 5.4 mod motor just isn't going to "cut it" when pulling dang near any TT with these 3.55 gears.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the site collinsfam_tx!

I have a similar vehicle to yours. A sierra 1500 with a 5.3L. I pull a 21RS and it does a workman like job.

However, I don't think I would be comfortable pulling anything much bigger with my current tv. Which makes things very convenient since we really like our camper and truck!

Of course, if somehow our finacial situation should greatly improve, I would strongly consider a 2500hd.

Dan


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

collinsfam_tx,

Let me add my warmest welcome to a fellow Texan!!!!! We're in Abilene.

I had the 26RS and pulled it with a 1500 Chevy Suburban with the 5.3L Vortec V-8. I didn't like it. Many do pull that size (and bigger) wtih similar TV's but I wasn't comfortable with it. Upgraded to a 3/4 Burb wtih the 8.1L V8. Now that's a Suburban!

I'm glad you're doing your research. And BTW, you won't get steered wrong here on this forum.

Let us know if we can be of any service to you.

Maybe we'll meet on the road in West Texas sometime. Or anywhere else for that matter.

Mark


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## aplvlykat (Jan 25, 2004)

Hi Curtis, With the oversize tires on your TV and the 4:10 gears you will have a gear ratio around 3.9 something. I like others put a lot of money into a 1/2 ton TV only to upgrade. You may want to save the money and use it as a down payment on a 3/4 ton TV. Having grown up in Clovis and Los Lunas, NM and have done a lot of camping in the mountains in NM, I can tell you, you will not be happy pulling with your current truck and you will like it even less when you go up into CO. Have fun and enjoy your new Outback and I will keep a eye out for you this coming summer when we are down that way visiting my cousins, nephews and my mom and dad. Kirk


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Yup this TV/TT thing. It is nice to have honest straight forward info and opinions sprinkled with experience in your back pocket. I have learned a good deal here about the ins and outs of GCVWR, GVWR, UVWR, Tongue weights, sway, weight distribution and on and on.

The best advise I would offer has already been well said. I would like to emphasize that the tougher TV makes for such a difference in towing and the comfort and confidence in towing. It's no fun towing in an overloaded/taxed/maxed out vehicle. Many have learned the hard way. BUT that is what we try to keep others out of. Trouble on the road. A good 3/4 ton will serve you well with the type of TT you'd like to tow. There are good deals out there and epending on where your sitting it may be feasible or not. If you can change up then absolutely, do so.

Or if this is your first experience with towing/camping in a TT, starting out smaller for the first year or so to find out how much you like it, how often you use your rig may help determine your path as well. We started with a Kodiak Hybrid, went to a Springdale and ended up with our Outback. And we are here to stay. That is for sure.

The progression of TVs was much like the TTs. Bigger and better. Ford Explorer Sport Trac V-6 (Towing a Hybrid? no problem), Ford Expedition 5.4 V-8 (not as big and bad as lead to believe), Chevy 1500HD (Okay but just didn't do it for us), Ford F-250 XLT V-10. The F-250 with its 12,500lb towing capacity and torque/horsepower from the V-10 makes pulling our 31RQS an effortless event. Got to love the Powwwwerrrr. Now that truck is where it's at for us.

Anyway, I think I speak for all when I say thanks for stopping in and looking for a bit of help. What ever you choose I wish you the best of luck.

Watch out for them out there. There is a whole bunch of people that love to tell you exactly what you'd like to hear instead of the straight truth.









Eric


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

White Buffalo said:


> *You definitely will not be happy with your current tow vehicles setup on 6% grades. In fact you might stress out the tranny to the breaking point as you will struggle to go 25 MPH uphill. How many miles are on the truck now? Many 1/2 ton owners (including myself) had spent alot of money on replacing/repairing the tranny after hitting the hills with the camper.
> 
> Just don't want to see you dump 2K on a new tranny then wind up trading the truck in for a bigger tow vehicle anyway. That's what happened to me
> 
> ...


I would think that you could do better than 25mph. I have a 5.3L with 3.42 gears and I tow in the mountains all the time and have pulled many 6%+ grades and can keep it around 50 mph. I have read so many posts that say rigs like mine should have all these towing problems but I have yet to experience them. I have been more than satisfied with my setup and have been slowed down by other rigs on grades.

I plan on getting a transmission temp gauge so I will know if the long grades is heating up my fluid, and will put a bigger cooler on if needed. My water temp does not go up much at all. Of course for me the 32RS was the max size I would go, my DW and DS kept going to larger and larger trailers and loving them more as they got bigger so I had to put my foot down and say that the 23RS was as big as I will go.

I would suggest you rent or barrow a trailer the size you want and test drive it and see it it will work for you.


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

*Update*
Thank all of you for the responses and help. I have drawn the line at 5300lb trailers and under. This means we were considering 21RS, 23RS, 25RSS, 26RS, 26KBRS and no heavier. We have actually been able to see a 23RS, 26RS and a 26KBRS. We ruled out the 26's, so, still under consideration are the 21RS, 23RS and 25RSS. Week after next we will be making a trip (7hr drive) to my mother in laws' for vacation and there is a dealer about 171mi. from her that actually has a 25RSS in stock. We hope he still has it when we go visit so we can go and check that model out.

In addition, I have ordered a transmission cooler, a transmission temperature gauge and a 2qt. larger, aluminum trans pan with cooling fins. All will go on prior to any TT purchase, in addition to a fluid change - possibly going to synthetic. We need our Supercrew to last approximately 2 more years and we want to take good care of our (paid for) pickup. We love it. However, we also realize that we will need to be careful with it, change the trans fluid more often than we would have otherwise and watch that gauge closely.

And last but not least, I told my wife that a 3/4 ton is in our future and that by getting a trailer, it means that we are going into it knowing that we will be looking at a new TV in approximately 2 years (truck will have approximately 125k mi. on it by then). This makes me a bit sad because I love my Supercrew.

I fell for the "quick oil change shop transmission wonder machine" and did that bit when the truck hit 60k mi. I guess I am going to just have to roll the dice on a full fluid change. I know some people say that if you do not change the fluid at 60k mi then leave it in there. The Ford dealer's service guy told me that I should get their "trans flush" job but it was really expensive. Some others have said to just do the fluid and filter which I am leaning towards just doing that. I will get that done as soon as I can so that we can observe the trucks' behavior for the next few months before we actually make a purchase in early spring. If anyone has a better idea outside of "get a new TV now" we are open to hearing it.







I am no expert on transmissions. I helped an old hotrodder rebuild the TF727 in my '70 RoadRunner but that is the extent of my experience on trannies.

At any rate...that is the plan. it seems to be the best course of action for now. We are going into this knowing we will be ugprading our TV and until then, we are going to do what we can to take good care of the TV that we currently have.

-CC

_*edit* Talked to a local trans shop who has worked on trucks like mine before and installed trans coolers for towing. They will install two new Hayden tube type coolers (removing the stock one), install a temp. sending unit in the trans case and run the wire for the gauge for a lot less than the parts I ordered (so I canceled the order). The guy said that he felt the tube types were better because my 4R70W trans (the light duty F-150 trans as opposed to 4R100's they put in F-150's with the payload package) did not put out enough pressure to make the most of what a stacked plate design could do. Guy is going to look at my fluid and see if he feels a fluid change would be ok or not. Whew._


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