# Solar



## Tonopah (Nov 17, 2007)

I have two 12 volt batteries on the tongue of my 25rss. On our maiden voyage the batteries ran down quickly and I found myself using the generator (Honda 2000) a lot. I dry camp frequently and live in So. Cal. where typically we have lots of sun. I store my TT in a storage lot outside.
I am wondering about replacing the 12 volt batteries with two Trojan 6 volt deep cycle batteries. I'm also thinking about putting one 80 watt solar panel on the roof, primarily to keep the batteries fully charged between trips and to somewhat extend the battery power during trips so as to reduce (if not eliminate) the need to use the generator.

Has anyone done this and what do you think? I'd have to have some dealer install this for me as I am not capable of figuring this out and doing it right myself. I suppose Camping World could do it, but I don't know if they would be the best, most reliable, choice. From what I have read, the panel itself is only one part of the system. A controller would be needed too and I have no idea where inside the Outback the controller should be mounted.

I did have two 80 watt panels, plus controller, on a prior RV and they worked really well keeping the twin 6 volts up to snuff. But that dealer is a long way away from me and only works on one trailer manufacturer (Trailmanor) and nothing else. Back then I had no generator and relied totally on the solar and it worked well with 160 watts (two panels on the roof). Now that I have a generator anyway, I'm thinking that one 80 watt panel would be adequate for my needs.

If I do this I want the panel permanently afixed to the roof.

Any suggestions as to the wisdom of this approach to charging the batteries, and any suggestions as to what retailer in So. Cal might be able to do it and do it right -- including a good, clean, install of the controller inside the Outback?

The Trojan 150 6 volt batteries aren't cheap and the solar set up is not cheap either so I really want to get it right if I do it at all.


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

I've got the exact setup you're thinking about, 2 - 6 volt Trojan 105s and an 80 watt solar panel. I've gone a week without using my generator (Honda EU 2000i) to charge the batteries and had no problems. I did go through the trailer and replaced many of the light bulbs with lower 4 and 7 watt ones. In many locations the smaller size is plenty and we haven't noticed the difference. I don't think you would need to go with a larger solar panel unless you plan to run an inverter a lot to power 120 AC devices.

One of the things I like the most about the solar panel is keeping the batteries charged while the trailer is stored. It's nice not to have to charge them before the start of a trip.


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

I too have virtually the same set up -- (see Signature below) but have the T-125s instead -- a little longer lasting 6V -- and it works great ... my batteries rarely run low dry camping unless the weather is really crappy ...

A couple of things -- the installations is NOT rocket science ... I did NOT mount my permanently on the roof for the fact that sometimes I get parked under a shade tree and need to move the cells around for the best light ... I have seen several folks that have the cells mounted on top and then able to pop off for re-aiming if you happen to get under a tree....

Yes the two TROJAN 125s are workhorses -- I mean they kick butt over two regular 12V batteries .. I have several times gone four days with the batteries WITHOUT a solar hookup...

80 watts is the bare minimum that I would go with on the Solar Cell -- anything lower and you are sort of maintaining the charge instead of actually charging and replenishing what you are using up...

I would call around and see who sells solar panels in your area and get a name of an installer .. but like I said - I have mine mounted in such a way that I can either keep them on the roof or pop them off and move them around in case I get under a big shade tree or something&#8230;

Yes you will need a controller to keep the batteries from overcharging and boiling...

I have my controller mounted on the instde of the Morgue closet (front stoage area) -- its not like you need to get to it or anything --

Go to Google and search for "RV SOLAR KITS" .. and that will give you an idea what you should be looking at ... Here is what i have

80 watt solar kit RV


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## W Podboy (Jan 4, 2007)

We have over 35 watts of solar on the roof of the 5er. I have 2, 12 volt batteries that are connected through a Western Marine battery combiner / isolator.

We almost always dry camp and we are able to use the batteries for the whole weekend. We do have 2 Honda EU 2000 generators for when we need the extra power for air or whatever.

You mention that the batteries ran down quickly&#8230; How quickly? One of the problems of using more than one battery is that if you can not isolate them electronically, one battery can discharge ( drain ) the other battery. This also occurs with 6 volt batteries in series as well!

This occurs because the electrical potential of the battery with the lower charge will draw power from the higher potential ( higher charged )battery. I used to maintain battery backup system for remote microwave and public safety radio sites and when one battery would fail it would draw down the whole system. Most of the new backup system use some form of isolation.

Also, you still have to do power management. Turn off lights that are not needed, use a water accumulator to reduce work load on the water pump, change some / all of the lights to LED or lower wattage bulbs.

With regard to solar, I am a firm believer in putting any size of panel on the roof and leave it connected to keep a float charge on the battery during the day. This is much better than leaving the trailer plugged in and run the risk of overcharging the batteries.

Wes


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## Tonopah (Nov 17, 2007)

I only picked up my 2007 new Outback 25rss recently. It came with two 12v batteries. I have camped with the 25rss only once so far. The batteries, according to the monitor panel, were fully charged (all lights illuminated) at the start of the camping trip. It didn't take long though for the lights to drop to three and then two. I only had a few lights on in the trailer, plus the radio on. I used the generator for about an hour and the monitor lights went back up to four. Then they started dropping again and within two hours were back at two lights. So I ran the generator again.

I'm thinking that regardless of starting the trip at four lights on the monitor panel -- the (new) batteries may never have actually been properly and fully charged prior to me picking up the trailer from the dealer? Maybe I should connect to shore power and really charge them up right before I conclude that they need to be replaced with Trojan 105s.

I still think that solar would be a good idea though. I like the idea that the batteries charge up and then a float charge is maintained while the TT is in outdoor storage. I have a battery cut off switch and I'd better be sure that any solar steps around that when the TT is in storage or else I gain nothing!


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Tonopah said:


> I only picked up my 2007 new Outback 25rss recently. It came with two 12v batteries. I have camped with the 25rss only once so far. The batteries, according to the monitor panel, were fully charged (all lights illuminated) at the start of the camping trip. It didn't take long though for the lights to drop to three and then two. I only had a few lights on in the trailer, plus the radio on. I used the generator for about an hour and the monitor lights went back up to four. Then they started dropping again and within two hours were back at two lights. So I ran the generator again.
> 
> I'm thinking that regardless of starting the trip at four lights on the monitor panel -- the (new) batteries may never have actually been properly and fully charged prior to me picking up the trailer from the dealer? Maybe I should connect to shore power and really charge them up right before I conclude that they need to be replaced with Trojan 105s.
> 
> I still think that solar would be a good idea though. I like the idea that the batteries charge up and then a float charge is maintained while the TT is in outdoor storage. I have a battery cut off switch and I'd better be sure that any solar steps around that when the TT is in storage or else I gain nothing!


Check the 12V batteries. My dealer delivered the trailer with a 12V Group 24 Starting/Deep Cell Marine type battery. It worked fine as a breakaway but was rather useless for usage over a day. Now a set of group 31 12V batts would probably work well too, but the 6V's were too good of a deal to pass up. A trip to the nearest Costco set me up with 2 6V Batteries that I have not been able to draw down (don't worry, I'm sure I could with the furnace, etc. but I haven't yet). I'm still collecting Solar equipment for this summer, but it does point to the importance of good batteries.


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## Tonopah (Nov 17, 2007)

Were you able to find Trojans at Costco or did you get another brand (Interstate?) from them?


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

If you have the original batteries they are likely junk, as others have said. I have two 12v deep-cycles from Walmart (yes Walmart) and I've gone 3 days on them easy peasy.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Tonopah said:


> Were you able to find Trojans at Costco or did you get another brand (Interstate?) from them?


I'll provide a 2nd recommendation for the Trojan Batteries. Best batteries I've ever bought...hands down!


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Tonopah said:


> Were you able to find Trojans at Costco or did you get another brand (Interstate?) from them?


The costco batteries are generic (A nice red label with yellow lettering that says Golf Cart Battery.







). I think I read somewhere that they are Johnson Controls. I've had their 12V Batts too and have always been happy, but at ~$70 for a 6V I was willing to deal with a Generic Battery.


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## Tonopah (Nov 17, 2007)

My brother has a new Keystone Freedom Lite (Passport) 18 foot TT. He has the two 12 volts that came with the unit. He is installing solar and it will be interesting to see how that works out. He is putting up two 80 watt panels. Not sure what controller he is getting. Poking around on the net I am left with the impression that the Bluesky 2000E MMPT controller would be a good choice. I think my brother is keeping the original batteries for the time being but will upgrade to twin deep cycle 6 volts if that becomes necessary later.

Regarding solar components, does anyone have an opinion on which solar panel manufacturers are the best and which ones to stay away from? Regarding the amount of watts on the roof, is a total of about 160 pretty good?


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

Tonopah said:


> Poking around on the net I am left with the impression that the Bluesky 2000E MMPT controller would be a good choice.
> 
> Regarding solar components, does anyone have an opinion on which solar panel manufacturers are the best and which ones to stay away from? Regarding the amount of watts on the roof, is a total of about 160 pretty good?


The Bluesky 2000E is the one I have and it is an excellent charge controller. I paid a little over $200 for mine but I feel it was worth the cost. This website http://www.partsonsale.com/ sells solar components and has some info on the different panel manufacturers. Having 160 watts would be fantastic and unless you use tremendous amounts of electricity you will probably never run down the batteries. I have an 80 watt panel and it puts out about 3 amps max. During the day if it's not cloudy or blocked by shade the panel will put out 2 to 3 amps for about 8 - 10 hours. I've estimated that on an average day I get about 16 to 20 amp-hours back into the batteries. The setup you describe with twice the wattage should be able to give 30 to 40 amp-hours a day.


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## Tonopah (Nov 17, 2007)

Decision made. I am having one 110 watt Mitsubishi panel permanently mounted on the roof of my 25rss. It will be directly connected to the batteries (stepping around the battery cut off switch which will still be used when the trailer is in outdoor storage so as to still cut off the parasitic loads). The batteries will be Trojan 105s. The controller will be a Bluesky 2000E.

This should mean that I can start every trip with fully charged deep cycle batteries. They can continue to charge while traveling. At a dry camp site, assuming I camp in the sun, the panel/controller should extend the battery charge even if the 110 panel is not enough to fully recharge the batteries on a daily basis.

If I need to add a panel later, I can do that.

Now, while my trailer is in the shop, is there anything else I ought to consider having done? Accumulator tank (don't really want to increase the flow rate because that won't help in dry camping but wouldn't mind eliminating the pulsing flow)? What else do you all like as modifications particularly for dry camping?


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Tonopah said:


> Now, while my trailer is in the shop, is there anything else I ought to consider having done? Accumulator tank (don't really want to increase the flow rate because that won't help in dry camping but wouldn't mind eliminating the pulsing flow)? What else do you all like as modifications particularly for dry camping?


1) Possible hitch on the back of the Outback. Great to carry small generator...not to power AC...only to charge battery when solar isn't enough

2) Accumulator tank. Just teach family not to turn water on all the way...will save power as pump won't run every time water is used.

3) Replace factory light bulbs with lower voltage ones. Found at lowes...$3 or so.

4) Scissor Jacks - While not needed for "dry camping"...I think of dry camping as a more remote location and sometime with uneven sites. Have great scissor jacks will help a lot.

5) Axle Flip - Same as above...remote locations...possible bumps/uneven roads. I almost tore my rear steps off last summer...has the axle flip done the following week. (thanks PDX_Doug for shop recommendation!)

6) Power Cord Conversion - Will help you quickly set up the Outback for charging the battery. Won't have to struggle getting the factory power cord back into the Outback. Click here for a link to my site....info was created by Y-Guy before I bought his Outback.
http://home.comcast.net/~tannerjim1/mods_cord.html

Hope these help....


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## rjsurfer (Dec 19, 2007)

One thing has always confused me (not to hard to do) about using solar panels, do you disconnect the factory charging wires from the converter or do you simply add the new solar panels and it's charger on top of the existing circuit?

Hope I made myself clear.

Ron W.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

rjsurfer said:


> One thing has always confused me (not to hard to do) about using solar panels, do you disconnect the factory charging wires from the converter or do you simply add the new solar panels and it's charger on top of the existing circuit?
> 
> Hope I made myself clear.
> 
> Ron W.


I just attached mine directy to the 2 6v batteries....works great.


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

My wiring goes from panel to charge controller to battery

Thor


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## ColoradoChip (Jan 21, 2008)

Oregon_Camper said:


> Were you able to find Trojans at Costco or did you get another brand (Interstate?) from them?


I'll provide a 2nd recommendation for the Trojan Batteries. Best batteries I've ever bought...hands down!
[/quote]

I have recently purchased a 25 KBRS. I haven't used it yet, as the weather here has been pretty damn cold except for today, of course. We previously had a coleman pop up, and we love to dry camp. When I bought the trailer, I got the dealer to throw in a second battery. After reading on this site, I see that both 12V batteries are probably crap. I am thinking about solar, but I'm also thinking about getting two 6v batteries, and getting LEDs. I was at Sam's club today, and they had energizer 6v golf cart batteries for something like $63 a piece. That seemed like a great deal. Does anyone have experience with these batteries, and are Trojans really that much better.


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## Lady Di (Oct 28, 2005)

I've been watching this thread as well as others on this site since we keep thinking of looking into it.

How does solar do on a cloudy day?

Do you get any kind of a charge, or do they only work in full sun?


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## compass49 (Feb 4, 2008)

This is a great topic and I'm learning a tonne of information from this great site!

I have a question too.....but please pardon my ignorance if it's stupid.

My truck presently charges the battery(s) when the trailer is in tow or hooked up electrically. Seeing that the truck is a 12volt system do you have to make any type of changes to run 6volt batteries?


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## Lady Di (Oct 28, 2005)

compass49 said:


> Seeing that the truck is a 12volt system do you have to make any type of changes to run 6volt batteries?


The OB uses a 12 volt system, so the truck's 12 volt system will charge any battery or combination of batteries that is equal to 12 volts.


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## Tonopah (Nov 17, 2007)

6 volt batteries can be wired together to look like one big 12 volt battery to your trailer's electrical system.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Lady Di said:


> I've been watching this thread as well as others on this site since we keep thinking of looking into it.
> 
> How does solar do on a cloudy day?
> 
> Do you get any kind of a charge, or do they only work in full sun?


You will get "some" charge on a cloudy day, but not much. I've never put an Ohm meter and tested it (we do have cloudy days in Oregon) but it seems about 20% of normal, based on my LED readout on the charge protecter.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

ColoradoChip said:


> I have recently purchased a 25 KBRS. I haven't used it yet, as the weather here has been pretty damn cold except for today, of course. We previously had a coleman pop up, and we love to dry camp. When I bought the trailer, I got the dealer to throw in a second battery. After reading on this site, I see that both 12V batteries are probably crap. I am thinking about solar, but I'm also thinking about getting two 6v batteries, and getting LEDs. I was at Sam's club today, and they had energizer 6v golf cart batteries for something like $63 a piece. That seemed like a great deal. Does anyone have experience with these batteries, and are Trojans really that much better.


I can't directly comment ton Sam's batteries. I have Costco 6V batteries and have been very happy with them. I can't directly compare to the Trojan's, but have yet to really tax them. Now I'm adding some solar to further extend their range. I just changed the light bulbs to lower wattage. I can probably cut my light wattage in half for a few bucks over the $$ that LED's cost for a more significant savings.


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