# Hot Water Heater Not Working



## DAR (Jan 5, 2008)

I have a 2007 25RSS with an Atwood water heater. It won't work on electric mode and trips the breaker. Below is what I have done so far.

1) Checked GFCI and it is OK
2) Checked electrical heating element with a tester specific to and it is OK
3) Checked the breaker and all fuses and they are OK
4) Cleaned the two connections to the circuit board and re-connected

No matter what I do the circuit trips when I try to reset the breaker regardless if the electric water heater switch is in the on position. This only happens with the water heater 15 amp breaker switch and everything else works fine.

Does anyone have any ideas? I'm thinking it is a wiring issue?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Tell us what you did for the element check. The only reason to trip the breaker is a shorted element.


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## DAR (Jan 5, 2008)

DAR said:


> I have a 2007 25RSS with an Atwood water heater. It won't work on electric mode and trips the breaker. Below is what I have done so far.
> 
> 1) Checked GFCI and it is OK
> 2) Checked electrical heating element with a tester specific to and it is OK
> ...


I tested the element with a water heater tester from home depot. It is specifically fo ruse on electric water heater elements. It shows the element is working??


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Well Can you post a model of the tester? Not sure how the tester would be able to tell if the element was good verse shorted. I would use a volt meter and check the resistance of the element. Anything less then about 12 ohms and I would call it bad.

How much was the tester?


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## DAR (Jan 5, 2008)

DAR said:


> I have a 2007 25RSS with an Atwood water heater. It won't work on electric mode and trips the breaker. Below is what I have done so far.
> 
> 1) Checked GFCI and it is OK
> 2) Checked electrical heating element with a tester specific to and it is OK
> ...


I tested the element with a water heater tester from home depot. It is specifically fo ruse on electric water heater elements. It shows the element is working??
[/quote]

Its a camco water heater tester their site is camco dot net if you click on the search button at the top and enter in tester for the key word it comes up Water Heater: Water Heater Continuity Tester. It specifically tests to see if the element is faulty. It was $8.

Am I missing something or is this a way to see if the element is good or bad. If it is bad it will trip the circuit, correct?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Sorry but that tester only tests for an open element, 95% fail open, yours may have failed shorted and that test is not helpful to determine that.

Do you have a volt meter and check resistance?


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

DAR said:


> I have a 2007 25RSS with an Atwood water heater. It won't work on electric mode and trips the breaker. Below is what I have done so far.
> 
> 1) Checked GFCI and it is OK
> 2) Checked electrical heating element with a tester specific to and it is OK
> ...


So if the switch for the electric (120v) side of the water heater is off, the breaker will still trip? James


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## DAR (Jan 5, 2008)

CamperAndy said:


> Sorry but that tester only tests for an open element, 95% fail open, yours may have failed shorted and that test is not helpful to determine that.
> 
> Do you have a volt meter and check resistance?


I will go buy a volt meter and Ohm it out. Thanks for the heads up on the other tester. BTW it seems nearly impossible to change the element on this water heater. It is very close to the floor, angled and even with the special tool I can't get a good grip on the nex head. Are there tricks I don't know about?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

DAR said:


> Sorry but that tester only tests for an open element, 95% fail open, yours may have failed shorted and that test is not helpful to determine that.
> 
> Do you have a volt meter and check resistance?


I will go buy a volt meter and Ohm it out. Thanks for the heads up on the other tester. BTW it seems nearly impossible to change the element on this water heater. It is very close to the floor, angled and even with the special tool I can't get a good grip on the nex head. Are there tricks I don't know about?
[/quote]

3 beers and hold your tongue just to the right a little.

Actually there is no trick but depending on the surroundings you may have to take things apart.


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

Is your special water heater tool look like a crimped into a hex shaped socket like this.







James


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## DAR (Jan 5, 2008)

GarethsDad said:


> Is your special water heater tool look like a crimped into a hex shaped socket like this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, exactly, thanks. The problem on my 2007 25RSS the water heater in right on the floor and the black box that contains the elemenet is angled down towards the floor. Look almost impossible to be able to get a good grip on the thin hex head. The dealer said I wouldn't need to remove the water heater but I don't see how I am able to get to it. Anyone else had this issue?


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## DAR (Jan 5, 2008)

DAR said:


> Sorry but that tester only tests for an open element, 95% fail open, yours may have failed shorted and that test is not helpful to determine that.
> 
> Do you have a volt meter and check resistance?


I will go buy a volt meter and Ohm it out. Thanks for the heads up on the other tester. BTW it seems nearly impossible to change the element on this water heater. It is very close to the floor, angled and even with the special tool I can't get a good grip on the nex head. Are there tricks I don't know about?
[/quote]

OK I tested the element with a volt meter and it reads 10.5 What does that mean


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

DAR said:


> Sorry but that tester only tests for an open element, 95% fail open, yours may have failed shorted and that test is not helpful to determine that.
> 
> Do you have a volt meter and check resistance?


I will go buy a volt meter and Ohm it out. Thanks for the heads up on the other tester. BTW it seems nearly impossible to change the element on this water heater. It is very close to the floor, angled and even with the special tool I can't get a good grip on the nex head. Are there tricks I don't know about?
[/quote]

OK I tested the element with a volt meter and it reads 10.5 What does that mean








[/quote]

That is borderline. Which means most likely the breaker is weak.

At that resistance and 120 vac the current draw is 11.5 amp. If the 15 amp breaker is tripping then it needs to be replaced and you do not need to mess with the element.


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

Before you run out to buy a new breaker turn off the 30 mamp breaker and swap the water heater breaker with the breaker for the gfci outlets and see if it trips, if it works on a different breaker then replace the breaker. If it trip the breaker let us know. James


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## DAR (Jan 5, 2008)

CamperAndy said:


> Sorry but that tester only tests for an open element, 95% fail open, yours may have failed shorted and that test is not helpful to determine that.
> 
> Do you have a volt meter and check resistance?


I will go buy a volt meter and Ohm it out. Thanks for the heads up on the other tester. BTW it seems nearly impossible to change the element on this water heater. It is very close to the floor, angled and even with the special tool I can't get a good grip on the nex head. Are there tricks I don't know about?
[/quote]

OK I tested the element with a volt meter and it reads 10.5 What does that mean








[/quote]

That is borderline. Which means most likely the breaker is weak.

At that resistance and 120 vac the current draw is 11.5 amp. If the 15 amp breaker is tripping then it needs to be replaced and you do not need to mess with the element.
[/quote]

I took both your advise and swapped the breakers and bought a new one and both times it still tripped the water heater only circuit breaker. What's next?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Disconnect the wire from the breaker and loop check the resistance from the breaker to and through the element back to the ground bus.


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## DAR (Jan 5, 2008)

CamperAndy said:


> Disconnect the wire from the breaker and loop check the resistance from the breaker to and through the element back to the ground bus.


OK, below is what I did

- Unplugged power from the house to trailer

- Disconnected the water heater wire from the breaker

- Placed the tester, one on the water heater wire and one on the ground bus. Got a reading of 5.0

Did I do it correctly?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

DAR said:


> Disconnect the wire from the breaker and loop check the resistance from the breaker to and through the element back to the ground bus.


OK, below is what I did

- Unplugged power from the house to trailer

- Disconnected the water heater wire from the breaker

- Placed the tester, one on the water heater wire and one on the ground bus. Got a reading of 5.0

Did I do it correctly?
[/quote]

Yes you did. That information results in a 24 amp load for the breaker. The wires from the breaker to the element are shorted. This is the last test to confirm.

Disconnect the wires from the element and the breaker, also disconnect the neutral wire from the bus, then measure for resistance between the hot wire and ground and the hot wire and the neutral. The correct reading should be OL on the meter but I expect it to be 10 to 12 ohms or lower.

I suspect at this point the problem is Gilligan skinned the wire as he pulled it from the breaker panel to the water heater, after riding around on a sharp edge the wires are now grounding in the belly area.


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## DAR (Jan 5, 2008)

CamperAndy said:


> Disconnect the wire from the breaker and loop check the resistance from the breaker to and through the element back to the ground bus.


OK, below is what I did

- Unplugged power from the house to trailer

- Disconnected the water heater wire from the breaker

- Placed the tester, one on the water heater wire and one on the ground bus. Got a reading of 5.0

Did I do it correctly?
[/quote]

Yes you did. That information results in a 24 amp load for the breaker. The wires from the breaker to the element are shorted. This is the last test to confirm.

Disconnect the wires from the element and the breaker, also disconnect the neutral wire from the bus, then measure for resistance between the hot wire and ground and the hot wire and the neutral. The correct reading should be OL on the meter but I expect it to be 10 to 12 ohms or lower.

I suspect at this point the problem is Gilligan skinned the wire as he pulled it from the breaker panel to the water heater, after riding around on a sharp edge the wires are now grounding in the belly area.
[/quote]

OK, with the power off I did the following:

I disconnected the wires from the element and the black wire to the breaker

I disconnected a plain copper wire from the ground bus that ran from the same group of wires that the black "hot" wire came from to the circuit breaker

I measured for resistance between the black "hot" wire and the plain copper wire and the black "hot" wire and the ground bus.

I got the same reading for both, about 5.0

Did I do everything correctly?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

There should also be a white to disconnect but based on the black wire to ground. I am sure you have a shorted wire. The only fix is to pull new wire to power the water heater.

What trailer do you have and where is the water heater in relationship to the breaker panel?


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## DAR (Jan 5, 2008)

CamperAndy said:


> There should also be a white to disconnect but based on the black wire to ground. I am sure you have a shorted wire. The only fix is to pull new wire to power the water heater.
> 
> What trailer do you have and where is the water heater in relationship to the breaker panel?


I also disconnected the white and tested it and same result. I have a 2007 Outback 25RSS. The breaker panel is located at the front center under the fridge and the water heater is in the far back corner under the table chairs. They are about 10-12 feet apart. I've never pulled a new wire but I'm ready to learn.


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## 'Ohana (May 20, 2007)

Before pulling new wires, you haven't stated if the heater previously worked on elec. until now







and if so have you done any mods of late that may have damaged a wire

Ed


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## DAR (Jan 5, 2008)

'Ohana said:


> Before pulling new wires, you haven't stated if the heater previously worked on elec. until now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi, good point. Summer of 2008 was the first year we used it and we bought it new. Yes, last year before winterization the heater worked on electrical. I haven' t done anything to the trailer except for winterizing it last fall and storing it outside, covered with an travel trailer cover. When I brought it out from storage and summerized it I started checking everything and the only thing that didn't work was the electric portion of the water heater.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Well, this could be fun. So let's give it a go.

You will need to remove any clips or staples holding the wire down. These should be only above the floor.

You need some very strong line or mason string. On one end of the wire fold back the wire to form a loop, you may need to cut back the outer jacket as you want the folded back section to be about 6 inches, use electrical tape to secure the wires by taping around the wire to hold the ends down. Tape the full length of the folded section except for a small loop at the end to tie the line. You want to use a knot that will not slip or be too bulky.

Now on the other end of the wire pull the line into the belly of the beast. This may take two people; if it snags you pull back on the line then re pull on the wire until you get past any obstructions. If you are lucky the wire will not be knotted or twisted in the belly and you will be able to pull the line through the belly from hole to hole. If it is knotted you will need to open the bottom which will add pain to the job but may be the only way to get the wire out and replaced.

If you are lucky and get the wire out then just reverse the procedure with new wire and then you will be good to go.


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## 'Ohana (May 20, 2007)

bricker417 said:


> What is the on/off switch used for in the water heater bay outside the trailer?


It is the local on/off switch for the water heater. It interrupts the voltage to the overheat detector and the thermostat and that prevents operation.
[/quote]

It's my understanding that you flip this switch when you drain the tank. This prevents someone from accidently turning it on and frying the element.
[/quote]

Remembered this post, would your w/h by chance be equipped with a secondary switch inside the bay









Ed


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

'Ohana said:


> What is the on/off switch used for in the water heater bay outside the trailer?


It is the local on/off switch for the water heater. It interrupts the voltage to the overheat detector and the thermostat and that prevents operation.
[/quote]

It's my understanding that you flip this switch when you drain the tank. This prevents someone from accidently turning it on and frying the element.
[/quote]

Remembered this post, would your w/h by chance be equipped with a secondary switch inside the bay









Ed
[/quote]

That would be a functional issue if the breaker was not tripping. Since the breaker is tripping even with it not turned on and the black wire shows 5 ohms to ground then the wire are shorted between the breaker and the element.

The issue could be critters in the belly had a little lunch on the wiring and that caused the short or it is just bad luck that the wires finally fretted to ground on the pull home from the last camping trip where the water heater worked fine.

It would be nice if it was just a switch but from the testing it does not sound like it is a switch issue.


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## 'Ohana (May 20, 2007)

CamperAndy said:


> What is the on/off switch used for in the water heater bay outside the trailer?


It is the local on/off switch for the water heater. It interrupts the voltage to the overheat detector and the thermostat and that prevents operation.
[/quote]

It's my understanding that you flip this switch when you drain the tank. This prevents someone from accidently turning it on and frying the element.
[/quote]

Remembered this post, would your w/h by chance be equipped with a secondary switch inside the bay









Ed
[/quote]

That would be a functional issue if the breaker was not tripping. Since the breaker is tripping even with it not turned on and the black wire shows 5 ohms to ground then the wire are shorted between the breaker and the element.

The issue could be critters in the belly had a little lunch on the wiring and that caused the short or it is just bad luck that the wires finally fretted to ground on the pull home from the last camping trip where the water heater worked fine.

It would be nice if it was just a switch but from the testing it does not sound like it is a switch issue.
[/quote]








Good point Andy and I stand corrected
















Ed


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## DAR (Jan 5, 2008)

CamperAndy said:


> What is the on/off switch used for in the water heater bay outside the trailer?


It is the local on/off switch for the water heater. It interrupts the voltage to the overheat detector and the thermostat and that prevents operation.
[/quote]

It's my understanding that you flip this switch when you drain the tank. This prevents someone from accidently turning it on and frying the element.
[/quote]

Remembered this post, would your w/h by chance be equipped with a secondary switch inside the bay









Ed
[/quote]

That would be a functional issue if the breaker was not tripping. Since the breaker is tripping even with it not turned on and the black wire shows 5 ohms to ground then the wire are shorted between the breaker and the element.

The issue could be critters in the belly had a little lunch on the wiring and that caused the short or it is just bad luck that the wires finally fretted to ground on the pull home from the last camping trip where the water heater worked fine.

It would be nice if it was just a switch but from the testing it does not sound like it is a switch issue.
[/quote]

I agree 100% I suspect a wiring issue. So what is the next step?

Do I remove the covering under the trailer? Anything to be careful of? Then trace the wiring and inspect/repair?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

See post #24


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## DAR (Jan 5, 2008)

CamperAndy said:


> Well, this could be fun. So let's give it a go.
> 
> You will need to remove any clips or staples holding the wire down. These should be only above the floor.
> 
> ...


I'm game. I'll give it a shot and let you know how it goes. Would it be a lot more work to drop the underbelly cover to trace the wire and repair the damage? Sounds like I should try fishing the line first. Does the electricians fish tape work also?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

In the end dropping the belly may be the only way to do it but give the pull line a try first. I would not recommend trying to splice or repair the damaged wire.

Fish tape is fine for conduit and short pulls in a void but I fear you would be more then likely to bend a fish tape if you tried to pull it in the belly of the trailer. If you have one you can try it but I think using a pull line would be better at this point.


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## john7349 (Jan 13, 2008)

If it's going to be a real pain to pull the wire, can't a person run the wire on top of the floor from point "A" to point "B" first, just to be sure that is really the problem?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

john7349 said:


> If it's going to be a real pain to pull the wire, can't a person run the wire on top of the floor from point "A" to point "B" first, just to be sure that is really the problem?


or even a modified extension cord hard wired to the element and control relay that you plug in when you get to site.


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## john7349 (Jan 13, 2008)

CamperAndy said:


> If it's going to be a real pain to pull the wire, can't a person run the wire on top of the floor from point "A" to point "B" first, just to be sure that is really the problem?


or even a modified extension cord hard wired to the element and control relay that you plug in when you get to site.
[/quote]

I didn't mean as a permanent fix, only to prove the the existing cable is bad before replacement.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

I mentioned it as a temporary fix until the time could be made to take the belly off. It is camping time and no one wants to lose a weekend working on the trailer or leaving it a the the dealer if they can put a patch on it until it can be repaired properly.


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## DAR (Jan 5, 2008)

CamperAndy said:


> I mentioned it as a temporary fix until the time could be made to take the belly off. It is camping time and no one wants to lose a weekend working on the trailer or leaving it a the the dealer if they can put a patch on it until it can be repaired properly.


Holy cow. I just found the problem. Keystone set the trailer on the frame with the water heater wire sandwiched in between. The wire housing rubbed through to the metal and it is tripping the circuit. Now I can't fish a new wire because it is pinched so tight it can't be moved. The only option now is to drop the cap on the bottom and run a new wire. I think Keystone should fix it since it was a problem from the beginning.

Thank you CamperAndy. I couldn't have fighured this out without your help.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Glad I could help. You should see the issues I had with water pipes between the frame. The picture below is worth a thousand words.


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