# Towing A Sydney 31 Rqs



## fishguy (Nov 15, 2010)

First of all, let me state how much I am enjoying this board...great insight and helpful suggestions from all...

We recently purchased a Sydney Edition 31 RQS travel trailer. Some current owners (not from this board) have told me they towed this TT with a 1/2 ton, and 3/4 ton gas engine vehicle too....

My preference would be to buy a diesel (I'll be selling my Toyota Tundra to do so)....realizing the weight of the TT, does diesel ever become overkill (I don't think so, but am curious to hear from others).

Thanks in advance,

Darren


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## KTMRacer (Jun 28, 2010)

fishguy said:


> First of all, let me state how much I am enjoying this board...great insight and helpful suggestions from all...
> 
> We recently purchased a Sydney Edition 31 RQS travel trailer. Some current owners (not from this board) have told me they towed this TT with a 1/2 ton, and 3/4 ton gas engine vehicle too....
> 
> ...


IMHO diesel isn't an overkill. I tow a 295RE (8600 lbs) with my duramax cc 4x4 diesel. Truck doesn't break a sweat even on 6% grades near 10,000 feet. Now is it cost effective vs. a gasser is another question. The initial cost is enough higher, and with diesel being as expensive or more expensive than premium, takes a long time and lots of driving to pay back the $$. Advantage is even on steep grades it's easy to accelerate, being able to keep in OD almost all of time does make is quite. You'll definitely not lack for power, In my experience normal maintenance costs for a diesel are the same or less than a gasser, especially if you DIY. Got my diesel well before the 295RE, but am glad I have it now. Just makes it for much more pleasant travel, especially in the mountains, but it's really something you need to decide on.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

That's what I have, Calvin and Hobbs and several other members. I have towed it with an Expedition, Silverado 1500HD, F-250 6.8L V-10, and now the 6.0L Diesel. The F-250 and F-350 are brutes. Expedition, Silverado etc. Not even close. By far the best is the diesel in my opinion..

But you would do well with the beefier engines such as 6L V-8, V-10 or Diesel engines. Look at wheel base as well. It will help to mitigate sway or issues with handling.

Eric


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## Justman (Jul 22, 2006)

I've been very happy with my duramax. Tows great with plenty of power. Couldn't say the same about my Yukon XL. Can't go wrong with a diesel.


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

Its not overkill, well maybe a little, but alot of us have one. If you can justify the additional cost then go for it. You wont regret it.









Randy


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

NEVER OVERKILL.

Best way (IMHO) to justify the cost or make the diesel more affordable is to shop. Stay away from the $60k+ new models, unless you are a "gotta have the new one" or "I just like the new models better" guy. Let someone else take the hit for the new one, but ya gotta do your homework.

If you have read some diesels post, you may noticed or others may have mentioned that I may have







happened to have bought a few diesel trucks lately, which is a story for another day.

Bought a new 2008 Chevy, were giving them away at the time, so I broke my own rule. $50k truck - $10k rebate and another $5k off from dealer = $35k. Traded in 2 vehicles I was upside down on and saved $200 per month in payments, so you can see why I broke my own rule.

After a year needed to lower monthly payment, so I found a 2005 Dodge with 115k for $14,500. Put a few thousand in it to make it "my version of reliable", (tires, shocks, few front end parts that were loose and all new fluids). Sold Chevy for near payoff, so no longer upside down and payment dropped over $400 a month.

2 boys get bigger quick and the backseat is just to small. Search is on for that big Ford back seat. 3 months of searching and I grab a no reserve auction off ebay. 2005 Ford King Ranch with 158k for $16,500. Clean history, clean carfax but it has a engine miss. DOING MY HOMEWORK, turns out to be 1 injector, $250 and 3 hours of my time and we are good to go. Only time will tell how good of a deal it is, but for now it is worth at least $20k and is the perfect truck for us.

So, do your homework and you can offset your "justifying" for that diesel. Of course this all relies on your ability to turn a wrench or a trusting mechanic that won't beat up your wallet to help with the savings. There are alot of diesels out there with near 100k miles and can be had for a whole lot less than new.

My long winded .02.

Good luck, Jim


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## COCostas (Aug 13, 2010)

Joonbee said:


> NEVER OVERKILL.
> 
> Best way (IMHO) to justify the cost or make the diesel more affordable is to shop. Stay away from the $60k+ new models, unless you are a "gotta have the new one" or "I just like the new models better" guy. Let someone else take the hit for the new one, but ya gotta do your homework.
> 
> ...


AGREED! Diesel shouldn't be considered overkill for anyone who tows anything. Granted, we have only had our Outback for a few months, but we have been towing other heavier things for many years. Personally I think you are safer to have more power than you need, as you will be assured to have extra power at the reserve in case you get into a hairy situation with traffic, hills, stupid drivers, etc. If you take care of your vehicle, it will serve you for a very long time. Our truck is almost 13 years old, at 175K miles and hauls like a dream. We have gotten to the point that we drive our truck more while towing than not towing and the gas mileage just cannot be beat with something in tow. Happy shopping!


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## luverofpeanuts (Mar 9, 2010)

KTMRacer said:


> IMHO diesel isn't an overkill. I tow a 295RE (8600 lbs) with my duramax cc 4x4 diesel. Truck doesn't break a sweat even on 6% grades near 10,000 feet. Now is it cost effective vs. a gasser is another question. The initial cost is enough higher, and with diesel being as expensive or more expensive than premium, takes a long time and lots of driving to pay back the $. Advantage is even on steep grades it's easy to accelerate, being able to keep in OD almost all of time does make is quite. You'll definitely not lack for power, In my experience normal maintenance costs for a diesel are the same or less than a gasser, especially if you DIY. Got my diesel well before the 295RE, but am glad I have it now. Just makes it for much more pleasant travel, especially in the mountains, but it's really something you need to decide on.


X2 - just about sums everything I'd have to say about the choice of diesel engine.

I think more important than the diesel, is that fact that you're choosing a 3/4 ton or 1 ton chassis vehicle. The beefier frame, longer wheelbase (usually), better brakes, etc, etc... are actually better reasons to choose these platforms, than the option of having a diesel.

Under normal driving conditions, I think you'd be happy with your Tundra. I think it pulls very well.. among the best of any of the half tons. However, when you start pushing the limits of payload capacity (especially if it's a double cab, or crewmax cab... same for any brand 1/2 ton) you'll find yourself into the capacity requirements where 3/4 tons and 1 tons take over. Our close camping friends tow with a Tundra double cab (OB 268RL). It doesn't break a sweat at all towing it. The 31RQS is bigger...and it's a Sydney (heavier). Personally, if you really like your Tundra, and it's not a good time to move up... I don't think you should feel like you *HAVE* to. I do agree, though, that it's a good thing to be thinking seriously about.

I moved up from an 12 yo Expedition that towed my 23 footer happily for nearly 10 years. I found a great used 2006 F250 diesel, to introduce me to the diesel world and larger tow vehicles. Forget comparing cost, IMHO, you can argue any perspective and support it with facts if you want. The intangibles are what makes it for the diesel, for me. Better acceleration, doesn't "feel" like it's working hard, even a 2-3 MPG better mileage means longer range between fuel stops. Carrying an extra 5 to 10 gallon container of diesel is less dangerous than carrying the same in gasoline.

When not towing... I love how the diesel will just cruise along and hardly ever downshift, yet still sound like it's idling.

The newer diesels are much quieter than my '06, in all the brands, I think. I definitely think the point of shopping around is a good one... there are always people who DID make the mistake about buying a monster truck they didn't need... let them take the hit on cost... and you'll find yourself in a great vehicle without having pay for half a house. (ok, well... 1/4 house... etc..)..


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Whoever told you a 1/2 ton would be fine towing a 31rqs was misinformed. A 3/4 ton will work but I don't think it is overkill to get a 1 ton diesel to pull it.

Test drive as many as you can and pick the one you like and then enjoy the trailer.


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## W5CI (Apr 21, 2009)

I have been looking at the new toyotas, if you have the 5.7 with 4.10's they are rated at over 10,000 lbs. i think you would have to go up to a 1 ton to gain anything. and 40 to 50 cent per gal more is a big deal.


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## gzaleski (Aug 29, 2009)

I had bought a 2009 F-150 to pull my 2008 KRS and it seemed to pull fine when the camper was fairly empty. Eventually after adding more and more stuff in the camper, it still pulled ok but it seemed to struggle especially going up steep grades. I had the F-150 for about 8 months when I upgraded it to a 2010 F-250 6.4 liter PSD. What a huge difference. I can go up pretty much any grade and I actually hardly notice that I'm pulling a camper behind me. I'm now convinced that diesel is the way to go, especially the F-250 instead of the F-150 gasser.

Just my observation.

glen...


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## luverofpeanuts (Mar 9, 2010)

danny285 said:


> I have been looking at the new toyotas, if you have the 5.7 with 4.10's they are rated at over 10,000 lbs. i think you would have to go up to a 1 ton to gain anything. and 40 to 50 cent per gal more is a big deal.


IMHO, You will gain plenty with any 3/4 ton. Any of the 1/2 tons can have great paper ratings for pulling, it doesn't mean they are as capable at handling it as well as a 3/4 ton. ( and I was zeroed in on the Toyota Crew Max or the F150 crew cab platinum when I was thinking of upgrading a couple of years ago). .

Because I need a crew cab config, I tend to highlight that as a clear deficiency in 1/2 tons. Look at that payload capacity for crew cabs... I've seen it spec'd at around 1500 pounds... after all options and stuff, I've seen it as low as 980 pounds (listed right on the door jam sticker). That is not nearly enough to handle 4 adults, gear, and tongue weight for heavy camper IMHO. Most of the 3/4 tons in the crew cabs spec at around 2300 pounds or higher.

That's not to mention other things like frame strength, braking, transmission, etc.


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## Dub (Dec 8, 2008)

danny285 said:


> I have been looking at the new toyotas, if you have the 5.7 with 4.10's they are rated at over 10,000 lbs. i think you would have to go up to a 1 ton to gain anything. and 40 to 50 cent per gal more is a big deal.


Mine pulls my 310BHS just fine, been from Michigan to Florida and back twice now, but I had to upgrade the tires to E and add airbags. I think it has the best gas engine and drivetrain available, however, it's no diesel. It tows well, it stops as well as any 3/4 truck due to the larger than average brakes and rotors, and it drives well...but it doesn't pull like a diesel would. And as others have stated you will max out your payload pretty quickly. I'm actually slightly over my payload capacity but well under my GAWR for both axles. I almost went with a GMC 2500 Diesel and the one thing that kills me about diesel is that the diesel engine option is $10,000 extra....WITHOUT the gas engine trade in. So that makes it more like $14000 option, crazy. The new Tundra ratings are about 500lbs lower than last year but they are compliant with the PROPOSED standards for the industry and are rated with two 150lbs passengers and a full tank of gas. So 9800lbs. http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/11/2011-toyotas-will-meet-new-towing-standards.html

The Tundra is a great 1/2 ton truck often compared to 3/4 ton trucks. I'm happy to with my decision not to go 3/4 ton and diesel as I saved quite a bit of cash and I save on fuel. However, others might not be happy with a half ton when they want to move up to a big 5er, add things like a Harley to the bed of the truck, etc. Of course, this worked to my advantage as I've had 3 different campers in 5 years...I'm sure if I had a 3/4 or 1 ton diesel I'd have upgraded to a huge 5er by now...not the best idea when you always buy new...I don't need a new one. So in addition to being just right for me it's saving me cash by not having the capacity to upgrade to a bigger camper.


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

danny285 said:


> I have been looking at the new toyotas, if you have the 5.7 with 4.10's they are rated at over 10,000 lbs. i think you would have to go up to a 1 ton to gain anything. and 40 to 50 cent per gal more is a big deal.


While I have no doubt about the Tundra's ability to handle the average TT, towing capacity is a marketing claim. What is the payload, GVWR and GCVWR? I doubt it compares to an F250. The specs on the F250 vary by engine/options/gas/diesel but roughly are payload-2/2500lbs, GVWR 10k, CGVWR 22/23000K, towing 12-15K. Dont get me wrong, the Tundra is a heck of a truck, but its not a 3/4 ton. Unless the newer ones are better it always lacked payload. If you have kids, dogs, and gear you can quickly run out of payload.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Back to the OP's question. I don't like the term overkill. I prefer to look at minimums and then know that comfort will increase from there. So, at a minimum, you'll want a 3/4 ton for the aforementioned payload issues with 1/2 tons. A gasser will get you up the hill, but you'll be well aware of how steep it was. A modern diesel will get you up the hill with a big smile on your face as a bonus.








That smile will cost you 10k, so consider what it's worth to you.


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

You'll be much happier with the 3/4 to 1 ton chassis, largest V-8 offered, or a V-10 / Diesel. A truck may be rated to "pull" a max amount of weight, but stopping it, or handling differing grades will decrease the longevity of components rather quickly- not mentioning your nerves. I recall a certain 6 mile up hill run- 10 % grade from Twin mountains in NH that I was praising the Excursion's strong manners....


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

i agree with several previous posts that there is great value in the used diesel truck market. especially with the new 6.7L ford out there and the dmax and dodge/cummins 6.7L offerings. so 6.0L ford from 2006 or 2007, with commensurate models in dmax and dodge/cummins can be had for a pretty good value, and the 6.0L for the best value given it's bad rap. as others have said, some study and preventative care, and a 6.0L is a rock solid platform. but of course, i am a bit biased with that opinion.







i can assure you there is a difference between the 325hp my 6.0L makes and the 400hp the new 6.7L makes, as i have driven them both...... but i can also assure you that there is a 30K to 35K difference in price. it is not worth it, IMHO.

also, i agree with other posts that there is no such thing as overkill when talking about going to a 1 ton truck. spare capacity is always nice, and you never know, your camping desires / style may change over time, and you may find that you want to carry more, and when you have the ability to do it easily, it is always nice.....

also, the whistle that the turbo makes on a diesel is too much fun to not have....gas engines do not sound fun at all......







and think of all those spark plugs that you are not having to use........ especially with a HEMI !


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Oh yeah, and passing equivelent or bigger rigs on grades while smiling at the other guy as you go by.....


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Here is why you want a diesel towing that size of a trailer.






Carey


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