# A/c Blowing Into Ceiling



## uoutcampin2 (Mar 3, 2005)

Ok guys, I need for you to chime in on this one. One of the first problems we noticed with the outback was the lack of airflow to the A/C vents. I also noticed that wherever there was an opening in the ceiling, (like the antenna crank and kitchen roof vent), we felt cold air coming out. We brought it back to the dealer and they said that there was trash in the ductwork and that it was fixed. Well it was better but still not to my satisfaction. Our last trip I couldnâ€™t get the TT cooler than 81 degrees during the day. It was about 95 outside with no shade on the roof. Now the air was cold coming out of the vents it was just that the airflow was very slight. Well I figured I would take a look for myself and I think I found the problem. The aluminum roof beams have an oval hole in them and they line up with the plenum or air distribution area as well as the return area in the ceiling.

Well what I did was use some foil tape and closed these holes to stop my cold air from blowing into the ceiling as well as stop the return from pulling air from the ceiling area as well. The return side should keep my coils cleaner by all air passing through the filters. 
Click here for the photos. Link to Photos
Now that I have done this I am getting massive airflow to my vents, and it is cooling down much quicker now.







My question is, do you think this was a part of the design or did they just forget to put the finishing touches and seal off this area? One other thing I noticed is that I only have 3 bolts holding my A/C together. It looks like there should be 4 of them. Have anyone of you dropped your ac panel to see what it looked like?

Chris


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

uoutcampin2 --

Are you in luck -- I have just got my PhD in "Carrier A/C problems"... the dealer and I spent a few hours taking the whole unti off and cleaning the ducts and reassembling the system at my house last night (long story) .. pretty easy to do it right -- or wrong...

First let me tell you that you NEED four bolts... with only three bolts you WILL get a leak...

also with only three bolts you will be putting toooo much torque on the A/C seal in one area and not the other and can possibly crack the roof liner -- (got that from the CARRIER people myself)...

as for duct work -- yes -- you should feel a tremendous rush of air.... my dealer and me put a new unit in yesterday and he notcied that one of the ducts was not blowing the way it should... yep .. big ass piece of ductwork blocking it --

makes you wonder how many folks out there has a blockage and they think thats the way it suppose to be ... I will tell you -- the air should be blowing HARD out of all four vents....

But get the fourth bolt ... try calling CARRIER and see if they wil mail you one -- of course you "could" try calling Keystone but I warn you -- they will make a note of the call and VOID the warranty because YOU are not authorize to even remove the cover....

---

as for your return air -- there is only one way that it can possibly get into the system ... that is from the filtered base of the unit... if you have air coming in anywhere else you have problems....

--

me personally -- I would have a dealer look at it... you may have a partially collapsed roof structure insulation blocking the flow....

--

and finally -- it hit 96 here today with a heat index of over a 100 -- the dealer had me run the A/C all day to make sure it worked... the temp in the trailer stayed 68 all day.... not bad at all....


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

I understand what you are saying is happening.
Unfortunately you pictures are not showing up for us to see.
The air on my unit has always blown very well, so I've never had cause to open the unit up.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

I would say they missed the step where they should have blocked the hole in the beam. Never had to take mine apart but now I am curious.


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## uoutcampin2 (Mar 3, 2005)

Ghosty said:


> uoutcampin2 --
> 
> Are you in luck -- I have just got my PhD in "Carrier A/C problems
> 
> ...


Ghosty-

I had read your post on your A/C issue and all I have to say is that the entire drama you experienced simply SUCKS!







You as the consumer shouldn't have had to make all those phone calls. Keystone needs to step up to the plate before they scare off any new customers with this kind of nonsence. Ok before I end up hijacking my own topic:







About the bolt, that is what I thought. I think I will try the dealer one more time. I am going to print up the pictures that I posted and show him what I did as well as ask him to get me another bolt. Obviously his tech didn't notice the hole in the beam that would allow the air to flow into the ceiling. I think this may just give them a heads up if this problem ever crosses their path again.

Chris


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

actually taking it apart taught me allot... especially how the vent works and how simple the A/C is... plus i know now tat if my AC ever goes out how easy it is to put a new one in myself...

one of the things though that I learned from the CARRIER guy... do NOT place a shroud over the grille fins on the roof (to protect them from hail or limps) -- the unit that we have needs to have air circulate at the coils in order to keep it from freezing up... people who put the aftermarket shrouds to protect the fins often find that their AC starts freezing up...


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Chris - You should post the pictures on the Outbackers Gallery. I could see the pictures when you first posted them but now it looks like you edited the post to just a link.

You gave temperature prior to the repair job you did. Any tests with numbers after the repair?


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## uoutcampin2 (Mar 3, 2005)

CamperAndy said:


> Chris - You should post the pictures on the Outbackers Gallery. I could see the pictures when you first posted them but now it looks like you edited the post to just a link.
> 
> You gave temperature prior to the repair job you did. Any tests with numbers after the repair?
> [snapback]40006[/snapback]​


I went to the dealer today and told them what I did. They apologized for their tech not noticing the holes in the frame and the missing bolt when he worked on it the first time. After I put the bolt in that they gave me, I went ahead and ran the A/C for about 4 hours today and the temp inside was 89 when I started. As of now, 4 hours later it is 68 in there.







Now it isn't as hot outside as it was last weekend at the campground. It is only about 88 outside right now. But anyway this fix is doing great. 68 is better than 81 anytime. I am going to post the pictures on outbackers in a little bit.

Let this be a heads up for everyone out there.







If you are not getting heavy flow to youâ€™re A/C vents, check this area out. It is easy. 4 screws holding the outer plastic grid, then 4 bolts holding the other piece in there.

Chris


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Sounds an awful lot like my heat problem earlier this spring. I had to rebuild the section of duct between the plenum and the floor duct because it collapsed over the winter.

I will be checking my AC this week, so, if I don't have air flow, than I will be removing the cover and taping some holes.

Tim


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## palod (May 17, 2005)

I have the same problem with my 2005 30FRKS. Essentially a "short circuit" of the cooled air. It's at the dealer's now, getting sealed.

Also had the problem with the heating ducts being not sealed, crushed, blocked with trash, and leaky. Again, a short circuit of HEATED air! This is now at least partially fixed, but I will check further as time permits. A lot of energy is (or was) being expended on heating and cooling where it just ain't needed and doesn't belong.

One of these days I will compose and post a listing of problems that I've fixed, or had the dealer fix. There have been enough that the dealer is now programmed into my telephone auto-dialer! Seems as though Keystone would be addressing these problems. They"re just due to poor design, or simply shoddy workmanship and inadequate final inspection.

I suspect that most people do merely accept the low airflow in both heating and cooling as being normal.

Palod
Escanaba, Michigan


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## tunelovr (May 26, 2006)

Thank goodness for this site or I would be going crazy.

We just bought a 2006 21ft Outback. We were getting very little air flow in 2 vents and none in 2 others. The dealer told us that it was a "low volume output" and to just run it at night so it could catch up by daylight. We told him it had practically "no volume output". Said they would look at it but didn't think there was anything they could do. I won't say what I think of them.

So, after reading everything everyone wrote and looking at the one picture, we pulled it apart. Yes, we only had 3 bolts as someone else stated. And, both air ducts were taped up with silver tape. We simply removed the tape, found another bolt at a junk tools place, put it back together and we have "High Volume, Cold Output".

The "New Camper Smell" is yet another major problem. I'm gonna try the Ammonia trick someone else wrote about. It is quite unbearable. We are taking out this weekend for the second time and air it out more.


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

tunelovr said:


> Thank goodness for this site or I would be going crazy.
> 
> We just bought a 2006 21ft Outback. We were getting very little air flow in 2 vents and none in 2 others. The dealer told us that it was a "low volume output" and to just run it at night so it could catch up by daylight. We told him it had practically "no volume output". Said they would look at it but didn't think there was anything they could do. I won't say what I think of them.
> 
> ...


That's great that you got the AC straighten out
As for the smell open all your windows and turn on the fan inside to circulate the air 
The smell you go away soon

Don


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Glad you got it fixed without much hassle.


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## chetlenox (Feb 3, 2004)

I still can't get the pictures to open up. Says something about a high volume of requests (wonder why?)







. Hopefully I can take a look, I'm definitely interested in confirming if I've got the same problem.

I'm an Oregon camper that has owned my trailer for a year and a half and have never used the AC unit. On top of that, I'm getting ready to head across the country (where I assume I'm gonna need it!) in a couple of weeks.

I'll try the pics again tomorrow.

Chet.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

I'm also getting the error on the link for the pictures...


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

I guess we have been lucky, we have alway gotten very strong flow from the A/C.
Now the furnace on the other hand...
Tim, I will have to check out your suggestion. Thanks!









Happy Trails,
Doug

_Gotta love Outbackers!_


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## chetlenox (Feb 3, 2004)

Well, I went out to the trailer this morning to get some other work done, and fired up the AC. It seems like I've got plenty of airflow, it's a pretty good blast coming out of all of the vents. The one thing I don't actually know is if the thing is cooling or not. When it's 49 degrees outside and 49 degrees in the trailer, I get a cold blast out of the vents no matter what!

Ahh well, I think I'll just drive the thing into the South and see what happens. I've got no good reason to think the AC doesn't work well, besides the fact I haven't ever used it in 2.5 years...

Chet.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

chetlenox said:


> I've got no good reason to think the AC doesn't work well, besides the fact I haven't ever used it in 2.5 years...


In that case, Chet, I would say you have nothing to worry about anyway!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Above & Beyond (May 20, 2006)

Dont test your A/C if the temp is below 65 you could damage your unit. And if you have A/C leaking into your ceiling you need to get it fixed or you could have condensation problems that will lead to mold growth. Not trying to scare anyone but you want to take care of this problem before it turns into a big one. Just my 2 cents worth as a professional Home Inspector


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## chetlenox (Feb 3, 2004)

Todd,

My test was to run for a few minutes, so I would assume I'm OK. Just for my own education, why would running the AC when it's cold outside damage anything?

Chet.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

chetlenox said:


> Todd,
> 
> My test was to run for a few minutes, so I would assume I'm OK. Just for my own education, why would running the AC when it's cold outside damage anything?
> 
> ...


Home inspectors will tell you the same thing. Not sure why...but I know you're not suppose to crank them up below 65


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## Above & Beyond (May 20, 2006)

Well for starters the oil in the compressor is too thick and stays in the bottom kinda like running your car with out oil. The second is the temp differntal is suppose to be between 14 & 20 degrees what that means is if it is 50 degrees and you have a 15 deg diff then the air comming out would be 35 deg this can cause your ac to freeze up causing a bunch of other problems. If you want to run your ac below 65 deg it will do damage it just depends on how long you run it and how cold it is.


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## begood (Jun 9, 2004)

chetlenox said:


> I still can't get the pictures to open up. Says something about a high volume of requests (wonder why?)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


found this in the gallery, try this link:
gallery


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## Steve McNeil (Aug 30, 2004)

begood said:


> chetlenox said:
> 
> 
> > I still can't get the pictures to open up.Â Says something about a high volume of requests (wonder why?)
> ...


Thanks for finding the pics. Now I know what to actually look for. I will check mine out this weekend.

Steve


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

begood said:


> chetlenox said:
> 
> 
> > I still can't get the pictures to open up. Says something about a high volume of requests (wonder why?)
> ...


Holy Smokes!!! I was invisioning a small hole....I'm surprised you had ANY airflow with that gapping hole. Gillian must have been working that day, as that can not be tthe standard way of building the vents.


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## chetlenox (Feb 3, 2004)

Thanks Begood, that's exactly what I needed...

Chet.


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## Above & Beyond (May 20, 2006)

That there is some good information as soon as my outback shows up i am going to open that up and check. Leaking ac in a warm climate means condensation then mold & thats bad. Thanks for the link to the picture.


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## RCColby (Oct 12, 2004)

Checked my bolts today, all were there but 2 were real loose, like 3 complete turns.
Is the opening towards the front between ceiling and roof on the return side supposed to be open? Should that be blocked off as well so all return air comes from below?
Bob


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## uoutcampin2 (Mar 3, 2005)

RCColby said:


> Checked my bolts today, all were there but 2 were real loose, like 3 complete turns.
> Is the opening towards the front between ceiling and roof on the return side supposed to be open? Should that be blocked off as well so all return air comes from below?
> Bob
> [snapback]116097[/snapback]​


 Bob -

I am the one that found the holes in the ceiling and posted the pictures. I taped up both the return and discharge sides. I didn't want any dust or debris from the ceiling to get caught up on the coils from the return side. How I thought of this was that from areas on the ceiling that had holes, like the crank for the antenna and lights had cold air coming from them. That is what made me think the air was leaking up there somewhere.

Chris


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## Travelers (Apr 6, 2006)

uoutcampin2 said:


> RCColby said:
> 
> 
> > Checked my bolts today, all were there but 2 were real loose, like 3 complete turns.
> ...


Chris,
From the picture, I can see that you have the ability to tape up the return side, so that no hot air from the roof trusses gets returned, but how do you get to the discharge side through the ceiling grill? Isn't the ceiling grill only the return?
Thanks,
Lee


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## uoutcampin2 (Mar 3, 2005)

Travelers said:


> uoutcampin2 said:
> 
> 
> > RCColby said:
> ...


Lee -

I am going from memory







so I am pretty sure this is what I did. Take the entire A/C grill down from the ceiling. I think there were 4 screws. You need to take the filters out to see 2 of them. Then take the 4 bolts out and lower the metal plate. Then you will see both sides as well as what the pictures are showing. Do not hook up to shore power just incase any wiring nuts have gotten loose. Never know, the tank labeler guy over at keystone may have been promoted to A/C installer. Hate for you to see the 4th of July sparks early.







Hope this helps.
Chris


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## Travelers (Apr 6, 2006)

Thanks Chris,
My A/C has great air volume and cools the camper enough for Minnesota weather. But, just wanted to see if I had the same issue as you. I may drop the matal plate just to confirm everthing is OK.
Thanks again,
Lee


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