# Blue Ribbon Award Should Be Given For



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Hi all, I see tons of unsafe towing this time of year. I followed this one into the rest area today. They were all over the road. Very sad, family of 4 from Kansas. I took these pics just east of Bismarck, N.D. They could only do about 50mph because of the high winds.

I seen 3 f150's towing bigger than 30 foot 5ers, and a durango towing a 34 foot trailer. I also seen a trailblazer towing a 30 footer that even looked worse than this tahoe. They were going the other way, so I couldnt get a pic.

I hope all of these people make it home..

Makes the highways an unsafe place for me to be making a living this time of year. I always look forward to fall after seeing this all summer.



















Pictures tell all, so I will say no more.

Im off to Canada and just had to stop and have you all check this out.

See yall in a few days!
Carey


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## john7349 (Jan 13, 2008)

I don't think I would want those safety chains on at this point


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## muttbike (Apr 27, 2009)

Wow, that is really bad. Now I know what always holds us up on the interstate.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

The State Police really should be educated on proper towing and pull people over who are unsafe.


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## Airboss (Jul 14, 2007)

Stupid, stupid, stupid!

I wish I could find someone to hire me as a traffic cop. Seriously, just traffic. No domestic violence, no meth labs, no gang crap. Just traffic. I would end up the largest source of revenue for that state/county period. And I'd take all of these knuckleheads off the road for good.

Any takers??!!??


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

Wow, no WD or sway control at all! Many years ago we rented a 22 ft travel trailer and not knowing any better we were in a less than ideal setup but nothing nearly as bad as that. When I rented the trailer I assumed it would come with a proper hitch but when I got there to pick it up they said drop it on the 2" ball and go. I had already paid about $250 for the rental and we were leaving the next morning so I was stuck. I also ended up with the brake controller not working because of a broken connector on my truck which took me a couple of hours to fix late at night. The next day I took it easy and everything was fine but after that experience we got a popup for the next 5 years.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

So they need air bags????









I saw an explorer look like that pulling a 310BHS..............it looked like that and it had WD bars on ...............I had to say something........ I just couldn't see ti and keep my mouth shut.

Drive Safe everyone!!! The people driving on the roads with you are not necessarily as safety minded as you are ..........

Everyone enjoy the remainder of the Summer!!


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

And we complain about a friction sway bar not being effective.









I really hope they made it safely.

I always shake my head when I'm a little concerned about the weight I'm towing without Duallies and then I see someone pulling a Mid profile 5'er with a 1/2 ton.


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

with kids in the vehicle, I would have had to say something, no matter the response of the driver. Good thing I didn't see it cuz the driver could have gotten mean,or maybe, just mabye, he didn't know any better cuz the dealer told him "it's fine!"


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## battalionchief3 (Jun 27, 2006)

A lot of people probably just don't know. No WD hitch? Thats nuts. Not even a friction sway bar. Thats a long camper for a Tahoe. I see lots of Explorers and Durangos pulling some long campers. Its fine unless you have to take an evasive maneuver, then on your roof you go. I can pull a 53' box trailer forever in a straight line, just don't expect me to turn it


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I thought i'd check in before crossing the border. I met the guy as I was coming out of the restroom. I could see the stress on his face. I figured why say anything. lol

I see 3-5 of this exact set up everday. If I said something he would have gotten an earfull, cause I would have taken all my flustrations out on him.

The worst this trip has been a nissan frontier towing a jayco 29bhs. All they could do down the interstate was 45 or so mph. I was so worried about passing them i couldnt take a pic. The whole rig was just out of control.

Anyway, I will take more pics when its safe for me to do so.. lol

Have a great week all!

Carey


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Airboss said:


> Stupid, stupid, stupid!
> 
> I wish I could find someone to hire me as a traffic cop. Seriously, just traffic. No domestic violence, no meth labs, no gang crap. Just traffic. I would end up the largest source of revenue for that state/county period. And I'd take all of these knuckleheads off the road for good.
> 
> Any takers??!!??


I'll ride shotgun and together we can solve Washington and Oregon's state spending issues. Out kids will have great schools and our freeways will be safe. Win-Win.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

In the Fella's defense.........if it was the way home from the weekend........maybe, just maybe....... his kids just ate to much on the camping trip...........









and the WD bars broke...............

And his truck broke down, and it was a Rental...........

Giving him the benefit of the LOL


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2009)

WOW, this was an educations for me! Here I thought everyone HAD to have WD & Sway control bars - I just assumed.

I'm AMAZED that there isn't a LAW regarding this. Outbackers.com is a big group - isn't there something we can collectively do to raise awareness for legislation? It's not just about the protection and safety of the people hauling the trailer, it's about the REST of the people on the road too!


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## Camping Fan (Dec 18, 2005)

Wow, unbelievable. I kept staring at your picture of the hitch set-up thinking surely they have *SOME* kind of WD and sway control, I'm just not looking close enough. But no matter how close I look, there's nuthin'














Definitely worse than the F-150 I saw pulling a fiver yesterday, at least it wasn't a big fiver, looked like it was less than 30 foot.

Drive safe everyone!


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## Airboss (Jul 14, 2007)

Oregon_Camper said:


> Stupid, stupid, stupid!
> 
> I wish I could find someone to hire me as a traffic cop. Seriously, just traffic. No domestic violence, no meth labs, no gang crap. Just traffic. I would end up the largest source of revenue for that state/county period. And I'd take all of these knuckleheads off the road for good.
> 
> Any takers??!!??


I'll ride shotgun and together we can solve Washington and Oregon's state spending issues. Out kids will have great schools and our freeways will be safe. Win-Win.
[/quote]

You're in. Definately going to need help writing all those tickets!


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

GoodTimes said:


> WOW, this was an educations for me! Here I thought everyone HAD to have WD & Sway control bars - I just assumed.
> 
> I'm AMAZED that there isn't a LAW regarding this. Outbackers.com is a big group - isn't there something we can collectively do to raise awareness for legislation? It's not just about the protection and safety of the people hauling the trailer, it's about the REST of the people on the road too!


Be Careful what you wish for............... Like anything the Govt. grabs onto................ it will be over regulated before it is safely regulated...... Thinking outloud of the lead paint on ATV's & dirt bikes from the begining of the summer...........

I am close to my limits on weight.........like with in 100 lbs of my Rated Towing capacity when loaded for bear..........

2009 Avalanche is only rated to pull 5500 lbs. I know yours is rated at 8200 (2008)...........

My suburban 2008 2500 is rated to pull 9300.......ironically now they only list a (2009 2500 suburban) GCVWR and not a trailering weight, so they can blanket it at 16000 GCVWR for tax and class purposes.............. which would give me a 7400lb trailering capacity.............

SO Govt. involvement would certainly be a pain in the arse as it is already.....and only lead to a RV road tax for sure........we need to lay low us RV'ers









Unfortunately The education would be best Served by pursuing the RV industry to Push dealers to provide some basic Trailering Safety..........
LOL .......cause that aint gonna happen either. Unfortunately that guy towing that is the same type of person that Text messages while they drive.............


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

clarkely said:


> WOW, this was an educations for me! Here I thought everyone HAD to have WD & Sway control bars - I just assumed.
> 
> I'm AMAZED that there isn't a LAW regarding this. Outbackers.com is a big group - isn't there something we can collectively do to raise awareness for legislation? It's not just about the protection and safety of the people hauling the trailer, it's about the REST of the people on the road too!


Be Careful what you wish for............... Like anything the Govt. grabs onto................ it will be over regulated before it is safely regulated...... Thinking outloud of the lead paint on ATV's & dirt bikes from the begining of the summer...........

I am close to my limits on weight.........like with in 100 lbs of my Rated Towing capacity when loaded for bear..........

2009 Avalanche is only rated to pull 5500 lbs. I know yours is rated at 8200 (2008)...........

My suburban 2008 2500 is rated to pull 9300.......ironically now they only list a (2009 2500 suburban) GCVWR and not a trailering weight, so they can blanket it at 16000 GCVWR for tax and class purposes.............. which would give me a 7400lb trailering capacity.............

SO Govt. involvement would certainly be a pain in the arse as it is already.....and only lead to a RV road tax for sure........we need to lay low us RV'ers









Unfortunately The education would be best Served by pursuing the RV industry to Push dealers to provide some basic Trailering Safety..........
LOL .......cause that aint gonna happen either. Unfortunately that guy towing that is the same type of person that Text messages while they drive.............
[/quote]
In some way's I'd hate to see it too. However, I also really hate to see RV's laying on their side and have to worry about if everyone survived.









I think of it like this: many of us are pulling loads that would require additional endorsements if they were commercial. We have recieved no special training, and have no one checking to ensure the weights are within specs. Sure it might get noted on the accident report, but that's about it. I guarentee that the picture that started this was over his rear axle rating. If he cooks the diff, that's one thing, but if he has a rear tire blowout from overloading, he's in some pretty big trouble. He could also rip the hitch right off that truck since it's so far over it's limits. What happens then since the safety chains and brakaway brakes are attached to the same hitch?









Now I'm not endorsing weigh stations for RV's, but why should you be allowed to plate a trailer for road use if you can't produce a vehicle that can tow it? And, if you're going to tow, why not have an endorsement with at least a written test that shows you can calculate the GVWR, the GCWR, etc. I'm not sure about everywhere, but in MI, I need an endorsement if I'm going to ride a motorcycle, but I don't need one to tandem tow a motorboat behind a 5'er, all with a 1/2 ton truck (yes I've seen it, but the boat reduces the 5'er's pin weight so it must be ok, right?







)

Sure, it's a free country, but if I'm in a compact car, I don't want that guy rolling over on me.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Nathan said:


> WOW, this was an educations for me! Here I thought everyone HAD to have WD & Sway control bars - I just assumed.
> 
> I'm AMAZED that there isn't a LAW regarding this. Outbackers.com is a big group - isn't there something we can collectively do to raise awareness for legislation? It's not just about the protection and safety of the people hauling the trailer, it's about the REST of the people on the road too!


Be Careful what you wish for............... Like anything the Govt. grabs onto................ it will be over regulated before it is safely regulated...... Thinking outloud of the lead paint on ATV's & dirt bikes from the begining of the summer...........

I am close to my limits on weight.........like with in 100 lbs of my Rated Towing capacity when loaded for bear..........

2009 Avalanche is only rated to pull 5500 lbs. I know yours is rated at 8200 (2008)...........

My suburban 2008 2500 is rated to pull 9300.......ironically now they only list a (2009 2500 suburban) GCVWR and not a trailering weight, so they can blanket it at 16000 GCVWR for tax and class purposes.............. which would give me a 7400lb trailering capacity.............

SO Govt. involvement would certainly be a pain in the arse as it is already.....and only lead to a RV road tax for sure........we need to lay low us RV'ers









Unfortunately The education would be best Served by pursuing the RV industry to Push dealers to provide some basic Trailering Safety..........
LOL .......cause that aint gonna happen either. Unfortunately that guy towing that is the same type of person that Text messages while they drive.............
[/quote]
In some way's I'd hate to see it too. However, I also really hate to see RV's laying on their side and have to worry about if everyone survived.









I think of it like this: many of us are pulling loads that would require additional endorsements if they were commercial. We have recieved no special training, and have no one checking to ensure the weights are within specs. Sure it might get noted on the accident report, but that's about it. I guarentee that the picture that started this was over his rear axle rating. If he cooks the diff, that's one thing, but if he has a rear tire blowout from overloading, he's in some pretty big trouble. He could also rip the hitch right off that truck since it's so far over it's limits. What happens then since the safety chains and brakaway brakes are attached to the same hitch?









Now I'm not endorsing weigh stations for RV's, but why should you be allowed to plate a trailer for road use if you can't produce a vehicle that can tow it? And, if you're going to tow, why not have an endorsement with at least a written test that shows you can calculate the GVWR, the GCWR, etc. I'm not sure about everywhere, but in MI, I need an endorsement if I'm going to ride a motorcycle, but I don't need one to tandem tow a motorboat behind a 5'er, all with a 1/2 ton truck (yes I've seen it, but the boat reduces the 5'er's pin weight so it must be ok, right?







)

Sure, it's a free country, but if I'm in a compact car, I don't want that guy rolling over on me.
[/quote]

I agree........until our over legislative govt gets on it........The black tank will be a Moving Bio Hzzard









There should be a basic safety test to pull a trailer...............like you do for a boat, jet ski, motorcycle, CDl ............

But you can't license Stupid........... we have a saying we use around here.............You need a license to drive a car, to drive a train, to fly a plain.................but no license is required to reproduce .........unfortunately you can't license stupid..........and as harsh as it may sound it is what it is.................obviously that guy knows something isn't right........and if he doesn't he shouldn't be allowed to drive let alone pull a trailer...... IMHO


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## Tyvekcat (Aug 28, 2007)

I would hate to fight that going down the road. I wouldn't trade my Equalizer hitch for plug nickel !

Yep, Carey, I would get out of there before them.

A lot of dealers build up perspective buyers that you have enough truck to pull just about anything on a lot. Makes us look bad as a group to the general public, every time some yahoo like this tail wags down the road, then crashes and burns, you know.

I like the whole camp,(eat) truck, (eat) travel (eat) motif. I sure would not do anything to mess any of that up. Besides its fun, but you have to be serious too, Cause Parts get expensive real quick.









Stay safe out there !


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Wow! Unbelievable! You would think that they would notice something is wrong when they are towing....?


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## battalionchief3 (Jun 27, 2006)

But the dealer said I was OK????? People need education, I would rather see stated do it then the FED, they have their hands in enough already.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Until the dealers start losing in lawsuits over telling people they can tow something, I don t see much changing, unfortunately. As for people being responsible to know and find out themselves, I agree, but when McDonalds can get sued over a hot cup of coffee from a drive in, telling someone they can pull a trailer 2000 lbs over the trucks capability seems a little more serious.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

wish I had a smaller truck for a day or two, then I'd go to a few local RV dealers and look at 35+ RV's. Love to see them say "Yep...that truck should have no problem towing this trailer"

...now I think I should contact 20-20 and see if they'd do this. they seem to love those hidden camera segments.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Oregon_Camper said:


> wish I had a smaller truck for a day or two, then I'd go to a few local RV dealers and look at 35+ RV's. Love to see them say "Yep...that truck should have no problem towing this trailer"
> 
> ...now I think I should contact 20-20 and see if they'd do this. they seem to love those hidden camera segments.


Been there, done that! I like messing with Salesmen.









When we first looked at upgrading from the popup, I drove around with my Minivan and was looking at 24-26' TT's. When they asked me about tow vehicles, I would point to the Windstar and watch the squirming begin.

Then, when we started looking at 5'ers, the 350 was on order. Well, one salesman tried to tell me a 39' full profile 5'er was under 35' long because " 4' is over the bed and doesn't count...








Payback was showing him the F150 Supercrew and saying I figured I should probably stay a little shorter than 39'.


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## puffer (Aug 28, 2008)

"Now I'm not endorsing weigh stations for RV's, but why should you be allowed to plate a trailer for road use if you can't produce a vehicle that can tow it? And, if you're going to tow, why not have an endorsement with at least a written test that shows you can calculate the GVWR, the GCWR, etc. I'm not sure about everywhere, but in MI, I need an endorsement if I'm going to ride a motorcycle, but I don't need one to tandem tow a motorboat behind a 5'er, all with a 1/2 ton truck (yes I've seen it, but the boat reduces the 5'er's pin weight so it must be ok, right?"

Nathan,Michigan does require a special endorsement for double towing. Type "R" Endorsment is required to tow anything behind a 5'er in michigan. I read there pamplet and took the test the next day. Needless to say my 2yr old could have passed the test(15 questions) General knowlege. Pretty much usless,just a way to get our $.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

puffer said:


> "Now I'm not endorsing weigh stations for RV's, but why should you be allowed to plate a trailer for road use if you can't produce a vehicle that can tow it? And, if you're going to tow, why not have an endorsement with at least a written test that shows you can calculate the GVWR, the GCWR, etc. I'm not sure about everywhere, but in MI, I need an endorsement if I'm going to ride a motorcycle, but I don't need one to tandem tow a motorboat behind a 5'er, all with a 1/2 ton truck (yes I've seen it, but the boat reduces the 5'er's pin weight so it must be ok, right?"
> 
> Nathan,Michigan does require a special endorsement for double towing. Type "R" Endorsment is required to tow anything behind a 5'er in michigan. I read there pamplet and took the test the next day. Needless to say my 2yr old could have passed the test(15 questions) General knowlege. Pretty much usless,just a way to get our $.


Opps, my mistake.









So, is it true that the TW of the 2nd trailer reduces the pin weight so I can pull it with a 1/2 ton?


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

puffer said:


> Nathan,Michigan does require a special endorsement for double towing. Type "R" Endorsment is required to tow anything behind a 5'er in michigan. I read there pamplet and took the test the next day. Needless to say my 2yr old could have passed the test(15 questions) General knowlege. Pretty much usless,just a way to get our $.


And that right there would be the result of it all...........more money thrown at something and no real solution..........


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## Duanesz (Jul 10, 2009)

Just a few questions for the towing guru's. Do you have to have a wdh when the tongue weight is under 500lbs? My 06 25rss says the tongue wt is 385 empty. I know when I load it it will be over the 500lbs because of the storage up front. But I got this trailer out of state and picked it up with my dads 3500 duramax chevy. The trailer was empty and when we lowered it onto the ball it did not even move hardly and inch or so. The hitch says its good up to 500 pounds without a wdh. The original post on this is scary and I am not in anyway endorsing this but is it always necessary to have a wdh?

I will be towing this with my f-150 and this 25rss is alot lighter on the tongue than my 26ft dutchman I was towing before. When I would set the dutchman down on the ball it would squat the 150 pretty good and the wdh worked well. But now when I set the outback down on the hitch it only goes down a few inches without the wdh. I dont have to put that much pressure from the wdh to level the truck and camper out. So I can see that the outback is a lot lighter on the tongue that the old dutchman. I hope this outback tows with less effort than the 26ft dutchman I had before. The out back is about a foot or so lower than the old camper and a little more rounded in the front. I am with in the tow limits of the f-150. I am now spoiled from using my dads duramax to tow it home and might have to upgrade tow vehicle some day soon.

Duane


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Duanesz said:


> Just a few questions for the towing guru's. Do you have to have a wdh when the tongue weight is under 500lbs? My 06 25rss says the tongue wt is 385 empty. I know when I load it it will be over the 500lbs because of the storage up front. But I got this trailer out of state and picked it up with my dads 3500 duramax chevy. The trailer was empty and when we lowered it onto the ball it did not even move hardly and inch or so. The hitch says its good up to 500 pounds without a wdh. The original post on this is scary and I am not in anyway endorsing this but is it always necessary to have a wdh?
> 
> I will be towing this with my f-150 and this 25rss is alot lighter on the tongue than my 26ft dutchman I was towing before. When I would set the dutchman down on the ball it would squat the 150 pretty good and the wdh worked well. But now when I set the outback down on the hitch it only goes down a few inches without the wdh. I dont have to put that much pressure from the wdh to level the truck and camper out. So I can see that the outback is a lot lighter on the tongue that the old dutchman. I hope this outback tows with less effort than the 26ft dutchman I had before. The out back is about a foot or so lower than the old camper and a little more rounded in the front. I am with in the tow limits of the f-150. I am now spoiled from using my dads duramax to tow it home and might have to upgrade tow vehicle some day soon.
> 
> Duane


Weigh the tounge and technically if it is below the max load rating of the hitch, you can do it. I'm assuming you just have a fricition sway bar? Most of us don't recommend those, but IF it works, and IF you are below weights, then there's no rule that says you have to use a WDH. I'm betting that fully loaded you'll be over the 500lb weight though.


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## HTQM (May 31, 2006)

It's not campers only.

On our last trip to Kentucky Lake I saw a Jeep Wrangler pulling a car hauler flat bed with a stock class dirt bomber on it.

I'm not an expert but I don't think the front tires are supposed to be perfectly round when mounted on the vehicle and rolling down the road. Mine have a flat contact patch where the rubber meets the road.

Dave


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

GoodTimes said:


> WOW, this was an educations for me! Here I thought everyone HAD to have WD & Sway control bars - I just assumed.
> 
> I'm AMAZED that there isn't a LAW regarding this. Outbackers.com is a big group - isn't there something we can collectively do to raise awareness for legislation? It's not just about the protection and safety of the people hauling the trailer, it's about the REST of the people on the road too!


There is a law in several states that requires the use of a wd hitch.. Sad thing is its only enforced to commercial haulers.

It is illegal to tow beyond the weight rating of your hitch, but cops are way too busy picking up the pieces from wrecks and writing speeding tickets to mess with this stuff.. This guy had to be over his hitch rating by a good 1/3rd or so.. His rig was the bad years for gm hitches too..

I see maybe 5-10 rv's a day being pulled without wd hitches. Most are 3/4 ton trucks and like 25 foot trailers. I dont use a wd hitch either for trailers under 27-28 feet. I do have a class 5 hitch rated at 1500/15000lbs without a wd hitch.

I see 2-4 a day just like the pic I posted.. Those are all on borrowed time and are accidents waiting to happen.

I just pulled a rear kitchen 24 footer to Edmonton and it wiggled all the way.. The trailer was out of balance empty. I should have used a wd/sway hitch on it. Was never dangerous but it wiggled the whole way.. Even though my dodge dually hardly new that trailer was back there, it really needed a wd/sway hitch used with it.

Carey


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> There is a law in several states that requires the use of a wd hitch.. Sad thing is its only enforced to commercial haulers.
> 
> It is illegal to tow beyond the weight rating of your hitch, but cops are way too busy picking up the pieces from wrecks and writing speeding tickets to mess with this stuff.. This guy had to be over his hitch rating by a good 1/3rd or so.. His rig was the bad years for gm hitches too..
> 
> Carey


But then you have GM doing dumb stuff as well........... they put a 1000 lb rated receiver on the new style Suburban.......integrated it into rear crumple zone....and now you do not have the ability to put on after market - solution i re-enforced it in - its a "Brick [email protected]%$ house" now but does not carry a tested higher rating.
They don't want the vehicle to go higher than 16000lb GCWR .............. so they list Tow rating at 9300 lbs and Vehicle at GVWR @ 8600 lbs ..............
I don't use Corporate/Gov't. Fuzzy Math......so I come up with 17,900 lb GCWR ..........not 16,000

Yet if you look at the silverado or the others........at their GVW & Trailer weight ratings .....add them together and you are with in a hundred or 2 pounds of the rated GCWR................ i am over my GCWR of 16,000 at ~16,100 ( I have scaled it loaded) but under my trailer rating, under my axle ratings, and under my truck rating...............

So, because of Manufaturers, state/fed tax - class regulations ...............and all i cringe when i hear talk of enforcing "ratings". not knocking a 4.6l toyota sequoia has a greater GCWR and if you choose the limited 5.7 ltr you are rated at 9500 lbs. shorter wheelbase & lighter truck.........i would not want to pull my 310 with anything smaller than what i have...........

Unfortunately there are so many variables.................. we just need a common sense test...............common sense tells you that the set up in this thread is bad..............texting while driving is bad.............you should not be able to drive.......period, with out common sense.............maybe put a question ion a drivers test ......like ......how do i fill my tires with air? add oil?? that alone would eliminate 1/2 the problem


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

clarkely said:


> .............maybe put a question ion a drivers test ......like ......how do i fill my tires with air? add oil?? that alone would eliminate 1/2 the problem


Not to get off topic or sexist, but would an acceptable answer be "Ask my husband to do it?"









Oh yeah, in case the DW is surfing: I love you dear!


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Nathan said:


> .............maybe put a question ion a drivers test ......like ......how do i fill my tires with air? add oil?? that alone would eliminate 1/2 the problem


Not to get off topic or sexist, but would an acceptable answer be "Ask my husband to do it?"









Oh yeah, in case the DW is surfing: I love you dear!









[/quote]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaa........................ NO!









But i bet you would get some answers like that, or I take it to the dealer.............. That's the Sad part.........

and i know my DW knows more about her car than some Men I know.......... it isn't a Gender Issue.........

Unfortunately the Computer is making our population Stupid................it does so much for people they do not have to think anymore...........


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

GoodTimes said:


> Outbackers.com is a big group - isn't there something we can collectively do to raise awareness for legislation?


Well, maybe there is...

I have been thinking about this question as I read through the thread, and there might just be something our community could do to address this issue. But it would take a committed effort by a lot of you to pull it off.

What if we developed a towing safety training and awareness program and offered clinics at RV shows around the country? The idea would be that we would get the various shows to donate the space for us, and we would provide free clinics on the issues at hand, distribute literature, etc. Maybe produce a video or two as well.

I'm fairly certain that we could get all the sponsorship and financial support we would need from the industry. The kicker would be that as a group we would have to commit to the time and effort to do it. There would have to be some sort of training and certification program that we ourselves would need to go through before we go out and start telling others how to do it, and once trained we would need to actually commit the time to man the booths and lead the clinics on an ongoing basis.

I'm just kind of thinking out loud here... What do you guys think?

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

PDX_Doug said:


> Outbackers.com is a big group - isn't there something we can collectively do to raise awareness for legislation?


Well, maybe there is...

I have been thinking about this question as I read through the thread, and there might just be something our community could do to address this issue. But it would take a committed effort by a lot of you to pull it off.

What if we developed a towing safety training and awareness program and offered clinics at RV shows around the country? The idea would be that we would get the various shows to donate the space for us, and we would provide free clinics on the issues at hand, distribute literature, etc. Maybe produce a video or two as well.

I'm fairly certain that we could get all the sponsorship and financial support we would need from the industry. The kicker would be that as a group we would have to commit to the time and effort to do it. There would have to be some sort of training and certification program that we ourselves would need to go through before we go out and start telling others how to do it, and once trained we would need to actually commit the time to man the booths and lead the clinics on an ongoing basis.

I'm just kind of thinking out loud here... What do you guys think?

Happy Trails,
Doug
[/quote]

Sounds very interesting....I'd like to investigate this more.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Oregon_Camper said:


> Outbackers.com is a big group - isn't there something we can collectively do to raise awareness for legislation?


Well, maybe there is...

I have been thinking about this question as I read through the thread, and there might just be something our community could do to address this issue. But it would take a committed effort by a lot of you to pull it off.

What if we developed a towing safety training and awareness program and offered clinics at RV shows around the country? The idea would be that we would get the various shows to donate the space for us, and we would provide free clinics on the issues at hand, distribute literature, etc. Maybe produce a video or two as well.

I'm fairly certain that we could get all the sponsorship and financial support we would need from the industry. The kicker would be that as a group we would have to commit to the time and effort to do it. There would have to be some sort of training and certification program that we ourselves would need to go through before we go out and start telling others how to do it, and once trained we would need to actually commit the time to man the booths and lead the clinics on an ongoing basis.

I'm just kind of thinking out loud here... What do you guys think?

Happy Trails,
Doug
[/quote]

Sounds very interesting....I'd like to investigate this more.
[/quote]

X2 I think it would be worth exploring...............also far better way to educate than to leave it in the hands of Govt. Regulation...........

I know my Coast Guard Axillary Boating Course/Test I took 26 years ago was tougher and more involved than the new boat license course NJ now makes you take................you can take the new one in a day.............and it is so easy, you could pass it with your eyes closed...........the test i took at 14 was more involved and more informative....


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## ORvagabond (Apr 17, 2009)

Perhaps an easy start would be to draft the langiage for a flyer or handout and grow it from there.


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2009)

PDX_Doug said:


> Outbackers.com is a big group - isn't there something we can collectively do to raise awareness for legislation?


Well, maybe there is...

I have been thinking about this question as I read through the thread, and there might just be something our community could do to address this issue. But it would take a committed effort by a lot of you to pull it off.

What if we developed a towing safety training and awareness program and offered clinics at RV shows around the country? The idea would be that we would get the various shows to donate the space for us, and we would provide free clinics on the issues at hand, distribute literature, etc. Maybe produce a video or two as well.

I'm fairly certain that we could get all the sponsorship and financial support we would need from the industry. The kicker would be that as a group we would have to commit to the time and effort to do it. There would have to be some sort of training and certification program that we ourselves would need to go through before we go out and start telling others how to do it, and once trained we would need to actually commit the time to man the booths and lead the clinics on an ongoing basis.

I'm just kind of thinking out loud here... What do you guys think?

Happy Trails,
Doug
[/quote]

After reading all the repliles, I agree that getting the government involved was a BAD idea..........bad, bad, bad................

But YOUR idea has promise! Kinda like a grass roots idea.................let's keep brainstorming on this, I think we could really make a difference!


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

I say we start with an interactive Website that explains things, has a loading calculator, explains the physics of loading, sway, WDH's, how different sway controls work. It would also be great to have links to state towing laws, federal gudelines (I know, I know.... I've read the NHTSA useless paperwork... ). I would suggest a separate website that is funded via advertisements so it doesn't become a drag on anyone....

I'd certainly be willing to help assist in the creation of parts.


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## Airboss (Jul 14, 2007)

Doug,

I am interested in what you are talking about, but I think we need a new thread started on the topic so we can draw the attention it deserves.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Problem is getting to the people........

doing it in a way in which they want to hear or learn about it, making it interesting and appealing.

Most of the info is out there........

here are some old links i have bookmarked from people like us who attempted to do the same thing.
http://rvtowingtips.com/
http://www.davidsrvtips.blogspot.com/
http://www.your-rv-lifestyle.com/towing-tips.html
Nice calculating spreadsheets at the bottom of this one http://www.klenger.net/RV_General/Towing_Weights/index.html
http://www.klenger.net/RV_General/index.html

Lots of info.......but you need to get it to the people who aren't looking for it, yet are out towing.....

It really needs to be done at RV shows or in regions so People new to our great Hobby are presented with unbiased facts and figures and Know-How.........


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