# Overdrive???



## dwciardi (Mar 3, 2006)

We have "overdrive" on our Ford Excursion V10 4X4. Should this be used for towing? My daughter and I know nothing about "overdrive." What does it do?

Dana


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## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

Typically you won't use OD while towing. OD is your final drive gear for cruising. You'll probably find that if you tow in OD, the transmission does too much up and down shifting, which is not good.

Randy


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## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

As long as it's not shifting a lot you can get by with overdrive on flat land. Lots of shifting will cause your tranny to overheat and could easily cause damage.


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## mik0445 (Jun 5, 2006)

You should always turn overdrive off when towing. Overdrive is nothing much more than a high gear for the highway to let you either coast or for the engine to use very little power to keep your wheels turning. During trailering it will cause your transmission to constantly shift to find the right point. It will shift to overdrive to conserve fuel, then downshift for more power. It will cause your transmission to run hotter as well as wearing out your shift points, ultimately wearing out your transmission to wear out a lot more quickly. You are going to burn more gas when towing your TT, but that's the price you have to pay to have fun!


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

What does the manual say about it? With the V10 and a heavy duty trans I would think you could. I do reserve the right to be wrong though









Mike


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## kjdj (Sep 14, 2004)

You have the biggest outback made. I would not use overdrive when towing.


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## shake1969 (Sep 21, 2004)

I have the smallest OB made. But, I put a trans gauge on before my last trip and this is what I found out:

First, rarely did the trans temp exceed 195 degrees, which is the operating temp of the coolant, regardless of gear. The highest temp I saw was about 210, and that was during a long stretch in second gear at about 50mph, into about a 40mph headwind.

Next, rarely did the Gator get into overdrive, especially during the climb out of Oklahoma to Colorado. But during some downhills, if I eased off the throttle a bit, it would shift into OD. I noticed no gear hunting or slippage. Of course, on the real hills I shifted down into second anyway.

My opinion is that it is overheating the fluid that kills a transmission, not necessarily because you towed in OD or not.

Check the manual. It should reveal all.


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

HI!
I have a Dodge Ram Cummins 2500 QC, and tow a 27RSDS in overdrive in tow mode......that's one punch on the end of the gear shift......two to take it out of overdrive. My RPMs never go over 2500, and I've been in the mountains, etc., with it, and keep it on cruise control, as I'm a speed demon, without it!








Zoomzoom8 has a 31 RQS and tows his with no problem with a Nissan Titan, and, believe me, he carries PLENTY of stuff with him!!







I'm sure that with the V10, heavy duty transmission, you'd be fine. I'd try it and see how it does, anyway. If you find it's not doing adequately, your motor's revving, etc., you can always take it out of overdrive.
Congrats on your purchase, and best of luck!!
Darlene action


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## Above & Beyond (May 20, 2006)

If anyone is worried about heat breaking down the trans fluid then switch it out to synthetic it is much better for your trans. It might cost up front but it will save you big time down the road. Any one pulling a big trailer should have it.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

shake1969 said:


> The highest temp I saw was about 210, and that was during a long stretch in *second* gear at about 50mph, into about a 40mph headwind.


Well, that pretty much proves that overheating from OD isn't necessarily a tranny killer, doesn't it?

The statements that your transmission will be shifting like a madman are apparently specific to the TV-TT setup (and may indicate you're pulling more trailer than you should as much as anything else). I tow in OD like my manual suggests and my transmission shifts to 3rd maybe once every 20-30 minutes as we encounter a stretch of incline.

I'd suggest checking your manual and giving OD a shot if the manual endorses it. If you're doing a lot of shifting then keep it out of OD for sure. If not, enjoy the extra mileage (and quiet in my case).


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

I will fall into line with those that say not to tow in overdrive. You will cause a great deal more wear (read shorter life span) on your transmission due to the overheating that can be caused by constant shifting and slippage in the torque comverter. Even going down hill, you need the extra degree of compression braking that the lower gear will offer. As one professional trucker once taught me, 'You should always decend the hill in the same gear you climbed it'. Good advice!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## bill_pfaff (Mar 11, 2005)

Just an FYI and as an example for why you should check your manual. Like BOATERDAN, when we had a 99 Suburban I also towed in OD per the book.

However, when we got the 2004 Suburban the book said DON'T tow in OD. They have a tow setting on the 04 that I assume manages the trans.

So the moral of the story is check your book.


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## dwciardi (Mar 3, 2006)

Thanks everyone for all your comments - both pro and con!!!

I will check our manual - although when I've checked it for other things (towing, etc.), it had nothing to say about it. BUT - perhaps it will tell me something about "overdrive." (Daughter out with car right now so I will have to wait to check the manual - but I will!!







)

Dana


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## Txcamper (Apr 3, 2006)

If you tow a heavy trailer in overdrive start saving for a new transmission. It will have to be replaced.


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

I wouldn't tow in OD
like others have already said too much searching between gears

Don


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

HootBob said:


> I wouldn't tow in OD
> like others have already said too much searching between gears
> 
> Don
> [snapback]125250[/snapback]​


I don't want to have a petty argument over this (not that replacing a tranny is a petty matter), but I'm curious why you folks keep insisting this is a hard and fast rule when it clearly isn't. I'm talking about the gear hunting part, which seems to be the basis for everyone's objection to OD.

Surely if I were towing a 500 pound trailer with my 3/4 ton big block 4.10 gear TV it would be ridiculous to suggest I stay out of OD because the transmission won't be able to find a gear to stay in. So, as I said previously, this seems to be more a matter of specific TT-TV combinations when looked at logically.


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Do not tow in OD. I must admit I haven't stayed current on all the types of transmissions out there but a simple example will show you what you are doing to it.

Lets say you are in OD doing 65MPH @2500 RPM. Then go to the next lower gear and now you are at 65MPH @3000RPM. In the first example the trans is doing much of the work while in the second the motor is doing the work. A trans has clutches that wear especially under load and heat conditions. Therefore you are certainly wearing your trans more. Check your manual. For trans with a lockup torque converter you definetely don't want to tow in OD.


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

camping479 said:


> What does the manual say about it? With the V10 and a heavy duty trans I would think you could. I do reserve the right to be wrong though
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with Mike and with several other comments. Read your owner's manual concerning towing in overdrive. Also, if your transmission doesn't do a lot of shifting at cruising speed when in overdrive, I would say use it.

Overdrive is meant to reduce engine RPM and to improve fuel milage. Outbackers that don't have the big torque and power of a Ford V-10 may not GET to use their overdrive when towing. With your TV and TT combo, you may be able to tow in OD. Factors such as terrain and headwind will also determine how hard your engine is working and whether OD may be used.

Bill


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## jgerni (Nov 10, 2003)

I tow close to 10,000lbs in OD without any issues. My tranny temps never get above 200 even in 90 degree days in hilly terain. I think it depends on the vehicle an tranny.

Now with our K1500 Suburban the tranny wouldn't in OD hold unless very flat.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

NJMikeC said:


> Do not tow in OD. I must admit I haven't stayed current on all the types of transmissions out there but a simple example will show you what you are doing to it.
> 
> Lets say you are in OD doing 65MPH @2500 RPM. Then go to the next lower gear and now you are at 65MPH @3000RPM. In the first example the trans is doing much of the work while in the second the motor is doing the work. A trans has clutches that wear especially under load and heat conditions. Therefore you are certainly wearing your trans more. Check your manual. For trans with a lockup torque converter you definetely don't want to tow in OD.
> [snapback]125276[/snapback]​


Of course towing 8,000 around is wearing my transmission more, as it is my rear end, engine, brakes, shocks, etc. It's a given that I'm wearing the vehicle. But I have a vehicle including the transmission that's meant specifically to be able to better withstand the strains of heavier loads and towing payloads.

If my rotors warped I'd think I'm straining the brakes too much. And so on. But people that have kept tabs on the temp say the overheating in OD is a MYTH - at least on their TT-TV combination.

Again, I don't want to sound like I'm arguing for argument's sake - I'm just not seeing how this can be so cut and dried like you're suggesting.


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## dwciardi (Mar 3, 2006)

cookie9933 said:


> camping479 said:
> 
> 
> > What does the manual say about it? With the V10 and a heavy duty trans I would think you could. I do reserve the right to be wrong though
> ...


O.K. everyone - I've read the Owner's Manual for my Excursion V10 4X4. Here is EVERYTHING my manual says about OVERDRIVE:

OVERDRIVE

The normal driving position for the best fuel economy. Transmission operates in gears 1 through 4.

Overdrive can be deactivated by pressing the transmission control switch (TCS) on the end of the gearshift lever. This will illuminate the O/D OFF lamp and activate drive. Note: If the overdrive OFF light flashes steadily at any time, have the system serviced immediately.

Overdrive cancel (4-speed automatic transmission) (if equipped). To deactivate overdrive, press the transmission control switch (TCS) located on the gearshift. The OFF indicator light will illuminate on the gearshift. The transmission will operate in all gears except overdrive. Press the transmission control switch again to return to normal overdrive mode. When you shut off and restart your vehicle, the transmission will automatically return to normal (overdrive) mode.

I checked: "overdrive," and "towing." The above is every instance (as quoted) from my manual!!!

Sum and total!!

Now - everyone - does my manual say I can tow a trailer in Overdrive - or not???

Dana


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

My guess, yes. It would only warn you if you could not I would think


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

dwciardi said:


> Now - everyone - does my manual say I can tow a trailer in Overdrive - or not???


A little ambiguous isn't it Dana?









So, let me answer the question with a question...

If towing in overdrive was not an issue, why would Ford even bother to put an overdrive cutoff switch on the truck? What other use would you possibly have for it, if not during towing? Unless, Ford just likes to spend money on equipment that has no value to the vehicle.

Look, there is nothing magical about overdrive. It simply is a gear ratio that results in the output shaft of the transmission turning faster than the input shaft. Many of todays cars with six speed transmissions will have two, sometimes even three, overdrive gears.

The whole point of the multiple gears in any transmission is to better match power output to demand. Now if an engine produced maximum horsepower and torque at all RPM's, we would not need transmissions (except for neutral and reverse). But engines don't produce max power at lower RPM's, so in some high load conditions - such as towing a big travel trailer - the engine needs to be turning at a higher RPM to produce the required power. Using higher gears, such as overdrive, has the result of lowering RPM's, which is counter to what the engine requires in that situation.

Are there vehicles out there that can pull the heaviest Outback at freeway speeds over the Rockies in top (overdrive) gear without breaking a sweat?... YES! (Happy now Dan?), but they are very few and very far between. And sorry, no offense intended, but your 7.3 Suburban is not one of them. Give me a Dodge Ram with a built CTD, and we can talk.

Anything less than that, and the transmission is going to be working awfully hard to reconcile the speed you are trying to go to the power available. With any extra load (grade, wind, etc.) there will be near continuous slippage in the torque converter, and that generates heat... lots of heat. Too much heat destroys the transmission fluid, which in turn will quickly destroy the tranmission itself.

Bottom line, as Dan says, any towing causes extra wear and tear on your entire truck. That's a given. But whether your TV can handle it in O/D or not, why add any more strain to the drivetrain than you have to. Whatever the TV/TT combo you have, tow in O/D as a common practice, and the local AAMCO is going to get to know your checking account a lot sooner than they will mine.

And that's all I have to say about that.









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Doug, your reasoning is all sound except when you state it as a hard and fast rule. That's what I'm taking exception to.

"*Whatever the TV/TT combo you have*, tow in O/D as a common practice, and the local AAMCO is going to get to know your checking account a lot sooner than they will mine."

Come on, we all know that's a ridiculous statement. I would ruin my car in a week towing just a few thousand pounds while my truck would barely know it was back there.

If somebody hooked up a tranny temp and measured no dangerous increase while towing in OD are you saying they must not be reading the gauge right because you know for a fact ANY TV/TT combination will be overheating the fluid and ruining the transmission. Which source of information should be authoritative about their temperature - the gauge hooked to their transmission or you're sure knowledge that it just _must_ be overheating?

And don't try to prove your point by creating straw men out of my statements - it's most annoying. I never said anything about towing "the heaviest outback at freeway speeds over the Rockies" and that has nothing whatsoever to do with the point I've been trying to make. There's some judgment involved here to be sure - I only put it in OD on the freeway and even then only if it's relatively flat.

And I'm not an engineer at Ford or their transmission supplier so I can't speak to the reason for that switch. I've been stating all along simply that this issue is TV/TT combination dependent - that means I leave room for it not being a good idea for any particular vehicle or combination. But I do know that my transmission also allows me to lock it into 2nd gear. That doesn't prove that I shouldn't tow in 3rd gear, does it?


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

Castle Rock Outbackers said:


> Typically you won't use OD while towing. OD is your final drive gear for cruising. You'll probably find that if you tow in OD, the transmission does too much up and down shifting, which is not good.
> 
> Randy
> [snapback]124886[/snapback]​





mik0445 said:


> You should always turn overdrive off when towing. Overdrive is nothing much more than a high gear for the highway to let you either coast or for the engine to use very little power to keep your wheels turning.[snapback]124896[/snapback]​


Not sure about Ford, but my GM manual says to tow in OD. It also says if the transmission's shifting gets too busy, you can downshift into 3rd. I'm the kind of person that reads the manual and believes what it says. It does not say turn off OD, and it does not say that towing in OD is bad for the vehicle.


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## jgerni (Nov 10, 2003)

Hmm...I can't even turn my OD off so I have to tow with my OD on unless I want to run in 3 which my RPM would be turning 3400 at 55mph. I have 1 2 3 and D. But its a 5 speed tranny.

Every vehicle and transmission is different. If your vehicle tows with ease in OD then use OD if not then turn it off. I if you have a tranny temp gauge monitor it.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Ahh... so many many possible responses, so little time...

But you know what Dan, you're absolutely right! To say that there are NO TV's out there capable of towing safely in O/D is a false statement. I agree with you completely!









You don't mind, if I continue to drop mine out of O/D while I'm towing, do you?









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## LateralG (Feb 11, 2006)

jgerni said:


> Hmm...I can't even turn my OD off so I have to tow with my OD on unless I want to run in 3 which my RPM would be turning 3400 at 55mph. I have 1 2 3 and D. But its a 5 speed tranny.
> 
> Every vehicle and transmission is different. If your vehicle tows with ease in OD then use OD if not then turn it off. I if you have a tranny temp gauge monitor it.
> [snapback]125729[/snapback]​


Is 4-th gear direct, or overdrive?

What is RPM in 4-th & 5-th at 55 MPH?


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## mik0445 (Jun 5, 2006)

dwciardi said:


> cookie9933 said:
> 
> 
> > camping479 said:
> ...


Call your Ford service department...see what they recommend with your set up, then let us know. As you can see there are many different opinions with different brands, so go straight to the source.


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## Mgonzo2u (Aug 3, 2004)

Per my manual and research of others who tow with their Dodge Durango's set up like mine, I can tow with O/D on. If any type of incline is encountered, simply turn it off.

Running flat ground on the highway in O/D is not a problem for my TV/TT and I have found improved fuel economy using O/D.

Just my .02 on the side of its solely a TV/TT combo thing.


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## jgerni (Nov 10, 2003)

LateralG,
The RPMs in 4th at 55 runs around 2400 and 1700 in 5th. They are all direct.

For some reason Chevy didn't include an OD lockout on the 01 or 02 2500HDs with the Allison tranny. This is usually not a problem unless you get into some rolling hills and need to maintain a speed over 60mph. With the Tow Haul mode on the Allison will not shift into 5th unless your speed is over 60mph.


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

I've heard on my Yukon D is overdrive so I drop it into 3rd when towing. I've tried D but it seems to have trouble holding speed at 60. I need a 3.5 gear.


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

The manual in this '06 1500 HD says to use tow/haul mode for heavy trailers to change shift points.

I don't think it locks out overdrive though, and I don't see an OD lockout anywhere else.









Steve


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## jgerni (Nov 10, 2003)

On the Chevy's 2500HDs 2003 or newer you can hold down the Tow/Haul button for a few seconds to lock out OD. This is at least with the Allison tranny.

I'm not sure about the 2500HDs with the 4L80/85E Transmissions but I think they are a 4 speed so you can lock OD out by selecting 3.


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## JimBo99 (Apr 25, 2006)

The Dodge 2500 diesel will go into overdrive in Tow/Haul. I have no problem towing in OD my 30rls. I have towed it mostly in flat to rolling land, but am headed to the Rockies tomorrow for six weeks. I'll see how it performs. I have been getting about 11mpg.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

campmg said:


> I've heard on my Yukon D is overdrive so I drop it into 3rd when towing. I've tried D but it seems to have trouble holding speed at 60. I need a 3.5 gear.
> [snapback]125835[/snapback]​


Actually, you'd want a higher rear end gear, like 4.10s.

And I think you've illustrated a case where a particular TV is clearly not capable of handling a particular TT in OD.

But that doesn't have much to do with the next guy who only sees a 5 degree increase in tranny fluid temp when towing in his combination.


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## jfish21 (Feb 14, 2006)

I've got the 01 2500 hd wirth the alison and dont have any problems leaving it in OD.
At least in lower MI. and IND. it seams to hold and stay rigth at 65
thru all the grades we have. 1800rpm to 3000 and the steeper grades till it catches up then drops to around 2500, but never a hunt for the rigth gear. The temp never changes more then maybe 5 deg. but all cases seam to differant


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

BoaterDan said:


> campmg said:
> 
> 
> > I've heard on my Yukon D is overdrive so I drop it into 3rd when towing.Â I've tried D but it seems to have trouble holding speed at 60.Â I need a 3.5 gear.
> ...


I just upgraded to the vehicle in my signature with 4.10s and anxious to try it out this weekend. I still have to read the manual for info on using D or 3.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

campmg said:


> I just upgraded to the vehicle in my signature with 4.10s and anxious to try it out this weekend. I still have to read the manual for info on using D or 3.
> [snapback]126520[/snapback]​


That vehicle has the tow/haul switch, right? As others have noted that changes the shift points. The manual should explain that, but I suspect it will say OD is fine or not say anything at all. Since you've bumped up the gear I think are being even more conservative compared to what the manual suggests. Also, if you really want some peace of mind I'd suggest putting synthetic gear oil in there too.


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

BoaterDan said:


> Also, if you really want some peace of mind I'd suggest putting synthetic gear oil in there too.
> [snapback]126825[/snapback]​


 My new to me '06 came with synthetic gear oil in the tow package.....

I think Chevy started that a few years ago.

Steve


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

huntr70 said:


> BoaterDan said:
> 
> 
> > Also, if you really want some peace of mind I'd suggest putting synthetic gear oil in there too.
> ...


Sweet!

I wonder if they come from the factory with synthetic motor oil too then. That was the standard for the f-bodies starting with the LT1s in '93.


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

My manual says that I can tow in D but to downshift if the tranny is shifting too much.


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