# Another School Shooting!



## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

Another school shooting took place today at a high school not far from us...in Northern Minnesota. The boy armed up, killed his grand parents, then headed to the school and opened fire. Total of 8 dead at the school...one was a teacher, one a security guard, the rest were students. (including himself) Total body count so far is 10. Many more were injured.

When does it end?


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

I really wonder sometimes Pete, we have so many in need of help in the world and so far nothing seems to stop them from harming others. It happens all over the map, small towns to big cities. I do wish you and your community the best in this time of crisis.


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

Hi Pete
I too wish the community and the families the best in this sad time.
I think that society has these kids growing up to fast these days
Adults in a childs body( They are just kids let them be kids)
I just think alot of them are being pushed to fast to grow up
Don


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## 1stTimeAround (Sep 22, 2004)

Hey guys, I heard about this on the news while preparing for work this morning and it just kills me to hear about these incidents.

Having been a school administrator, I see this in so many different ways. Not only the why did he do it, but how do we make the remaining students feel comfortable in school, what about their mental healing, what about teacher morale, what about community outlash at what the school "didn't do" to prevent it, etc. etc. etc.?

The problem is not just growing up to fast, it's the music, tv and generally socially excepted behaviors that are prevalent in our society. You can't turn on a tv, video game or radio station without seeing or hearing violence, cursing, hatred, drug use, alcohol abuse, etc.

The problem is a societal one and one that everyone talks about, but too few people do anything about. Combine this behavior with the scum that abducted that little girl in Florida and it makes you wonder, what is next? It really is enough to drive me to tears.

Our children are not allowed to be kids, they are constantly bombarded with the things of this world that should be intended for adults, and even then it's not appropriate frequently!!

You just can't pray enough!! God bless all of our children, and hopefully one day, they might be able to band together and fix the mess that we have put them in!

I think back to what the father of Jessica Lunsford said, "Hug and kiss your kids everyday!" In this day and age, every time the leave the door, you don't really know what may happen in their world.

I'm very passionate about these topics, sorry if I have put a damper on your day. I just worry about our children, I'm scared about the world we have brought them into.

Jason

PS. In my sons elementary class last week, a student brought a pocket knife to school because two girls had been mean to him. What exactly will it take?


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Jared,

My grandaughter is in first grade. Her "deskmate" brought a pocket knife to school, too, and put it in her side of the desk to blame her! What kind of parents are there out there?









I agree......too many kids are growing up too fast. We put too many expectations on them and don't allow them to be children.

Mark


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Very tragic, it makes me feel sick when I hear about these things.

Not only do we put a lot of pressure on our kids to grow up and mature quickly, a lot of parents I believe do not spend enough time being with, talking to and disciplining their kids. As parents we are charged with training our kids up to be responsible, compassionate and productive adults. Going out and making as much money as you can is not what it's all about. Granted a lot households need both parents to work and there are ways to do that and be an effective parent. Our kids should take priority over a nice lifestyle.

Have dinner with your kids every night, ask them how they're day was, know where they are, what they're doing and who they are with. Keep an eye on what they are watching on television. Know whey're they're surfing to and who they're chatting with on the internet.

Let them just be kids and have fun. That's a big reason we camp.

I'm not my daughters' friend, I'm their dad and I'm going to have to answer to my creator for how I've raised my girls, all of us parents will.

off soap box

Mike


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

About the time of the shootings at Columbine we had a shooting spree here just outside of Atlanta. Kid went into the Heritage High Campus and started blasting students with a rifle. A real tragedy. Then the politicians stepped in. First the governor then the Vice President (Gore) walked in and clucked about what a horrible tragedy it was then walked out, never to be seen again. They both talked about guns being the culprit but were too big a political coward to admit the real culprit was the parents. Letting your kids become desensitized to mayhem and violence through television, movies, music and video games is the fault of the parents. Not having enough guts to tell you children "No" even when their peers are allowed to see it is tantamount to letting other people raise your kids. Being a parent isn't a popularly elected position, it is a sacred obligation to your kids and too society.

I'm not ever saying my kids are or will be perfect. I will promise you that if they go off the deep end and do something so patently anti-social it will not be for lack of parental involvement.

Just my two cents worth. Your cards and letters are welcomed...

Reverie


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## campntn (Feb 20, 2005)

*stepping up on the soapbox*
Mike, I see that we share child-rearing values. Our children are why we're even here in the first place. God gave them to us to enhance our lives/marriages and to enjoy. He also gave them to us to raise up. Not to let someone else raise up. It'd be much easier to just let them do as they want. Raising kids and teaching them right from wrong takes time. 
Don't be afraid to get in your kids business. It's you job...daily job. If it's something you can't figure out with your spouse, find a respected parent you know and get their advice. Don't just turn your back on em. Kids need boundaries and need to know your watching out after them.
Most parents are too busy trying to work overtime to pay for the things they want, things that the kids don't care for. Things the PARENTS want FOR the kids...they say. We have to be careful that what we want doesn't interfere with our FIRST,MOST IMPORTANT job:
Being moma and daddy.
*stepping off of soapbox*
God be with those and their families affected by this tragedy.


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

If there were more parents like you guys....
The world would be a much better place! Very well said.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Soapbox is good sometime. Well said


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## Not Yet (Dec 13, 2004)

Another sad manifestation of our societies disregard for human life. I am often comforted by the knowledge that my children are at home learning with their mom in a safe and loving environment.

I find it very ironic that this headline and the Terry Schiavo headline were right next to each other on FoxNews. The two are more related than most people would want to believe.

Jared


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## Roloaddict (Oct 29, 2004)

This is one of the main reasons we bought the Outback. Our kids are 8 and 11. We stayed involved with our kids in their early years by having a stay-at-home Mom and school volunteer. Now that they are getting older, we hope to fill all their time with family outings. We know there is no perfect solution to all the issues our kids have to deal with today, but our time and attention will make a difference. Don't forget the hugs, even if they act like they don't want them! Remind them every day that they are loved.

A special thank you goes out to those of you that spend your time with the "other kids" too.









Our condolences and prayers are with the families of the school shooting victims.
H.


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## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Caroline and I discussed, argued, debated, cried, got excited, and firmly committed before we made the decision to start raising children. We committed to 30 years and more of involvement, sacrifice, and dedication to the effort that many people hardly think twice about.

I love my children more than life itself but I agree with Mike, I'm dad first, not friend, it's my job to keep them straight and to teach them the values that will allow them to get to the point where they can discuss, argue, debate, cry and get excited about committing to their own children. There is no compromise along the way, it's not for fun we do this, fun is what happens IF we do this.

To the people affected by this horrifying event, my thoughts and prayers are sent your way. For those parents out there who are not as committed as they need to be, I hope that this event will cause them to rethink their situation - our prayers go out to them as well.

BBB

There is a reason Outbackers.com is the way it is - just read this thread. Good people.


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## constable (Mar 7, 2005)

NDJollyMon said:


> Another school shooting took place today at a high school not far from us...in Northern Minnesota. The boy armed up, killed his grand parents, then headed to the school and opened fire. Total of 8 dead at the school...one was a teacher, one a security guard, the rest were students. (including himself) Total body count so far is 10. Many more were injured.
> 
> When does it end?
> 
> ...


As a Minnesotan I'm starting to wonder. We had a shooting about a year and a half ago at Cold Spring ROCORI. One of the shooters at Columbine was originally from Minnesota. Now this. What are we doing wrong? It seems school shootings are the "vogue" thing to do. Thank God we camp and spend some quality time with our kids. I hope I'm a good enough parent to keep my kids on the straight and narrow.


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

And here's the kicker...
Today, on my way home from the Chiro-Witch Doctor...
I get to the school, and there are police road blocks set up. (I live 2 blocks from the school) I see news media, cameras, and cops everywhere.

I'm thinking...what the heck??? Maybe a News conference for the school shooting because they won't let the media on the Indian reservation.

WRONG! I get home, switch on the TV and, it's a man with a gun.

THE SKINNY:
Police were tipped off by a caller stating a man with a gun was headed to this school. Police blocked the streets, set up a dragnet, and locked down the school. (doors locked, lights off, kids hiding...like their not already freaked out enough) Sure enough...police spot the guy in his car at the school. They throw him down, cuff him, and find a loaded shotgun in his car. No one injured.

A copycat crime? Cabin Fever? What's going on???? It's unknown at this time.


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

I heard today he was going to shoot the Principal. His kid attended the school there.


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## borntorv (Apr 13, 2004)

Unbelievable Pete,

I guess we all want to believe it won't happen, or if it does, that it'll be somewhere else. As a parent it seems to be getting tougher and tougher to walk the line between protecting our children and stifling their need to be individuals. I want all our kids to be able to experience the freedom of riding their bikes, hanging out with friends, maybe having a paper route, etc. Problem is anymore that to give them those freedoms requires some potential risk that just wasn't there when we were all young.

God help us and them,

Greg


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## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

When I was 16, my parents sent me off for a summer to be a foreign exchange student in Honduras. This, in 1986 when Central America was in some pretty serious political instability and civil war(s). As it turns out, the experience was overwhelmingly positive and helped me mature in a way that few other things have. In retrospect, it was the difficulties I faced down there that were most educational.

Looking back upon my experience, and now as a father of 3 girls, I had to ask my parents how in the world they let me do that. My mom (who was otherwise very overprotective as I grew up) told me that they were scared to death of letting me go, but knew that the good that would come from my experience was much more important than their worry. They did their research and learned that things weren't all that dangerous in the areas I would visit. So they bit the bullet and let me go. And I'm forever grateful that they did.

Back to reality: I don't think that things are any more dangerous now than they ever were. Looking back on my youth, we had bad auto safety (seatbelts?), poor air quality, more crime and let's not forget the cold war. There have always been serial killers, mass murderers shooting up public places, and child molesters (probably more in times past before police got better at catching them)

What's changed? Why does everything feel so different now? Well, gosh, I'm 20 years older now, aren't I?  Teenagers aren't my peers anymore, they're "those kids." I'm a father, a grownup, a voter. I've got a career, a 401k, a mortgage, and I pay taxes. Times haven't changed, I have. One thing that clearly hasn't changed: teenagers. They're the same as ever, just as immature as I was, and as my father was. They think for the moment, do stupid things and need to learn about the world, just as I did, and just as my father did. They drive too fast, drink too much, and stay out too late. They're also capable of incredible bravery, whether its in the military or just surviving the talent show in high school. Sound familiar, anyone?

But hasn't the world changed with the internet, video games, cable tv? I don't think its changed that much. I can remember the uproar over MTV, "satanic" heavy metal, dungeons and dragons, "just say no" to drugs, etc. Same stuff, different generation. What hasn't changed is that kids need to grow, they need responsibilities, they need high expectations placed upon them so that they can hopefully strive to reach them, and they need clear rules of how to behave. They need to know that certain things are unacceptable, and they need to have consequences when they cross the line. They need chores, and should be expected to contribute to the family in a meaningful way. They need us to step back and let them grow into their worlds, and never forget that our job as parents is to make sure that they stay on the right path. That means, of course, that their private lives will never be private, and that we will step in and guide them when necessary, let them fail sometimes, help them when they ask for it, and give them unconditional love and support. But they aren't that fragile, they certainly aren't helpless, and they don't really need to be protected from day-to-day life. Teaching personal responsibility does not mean shielding kids from all danger. (And if you could, you'd likely do more harm than good.) A good parent, in my opinion, prepares their child to be a responsible, caring person, prepared and confident for the challenges of the real world.

If none of this makes sense, please just ignore it. I'm making this parenting thing up as I go. Will I send my kids abroad? Yes, if I can muster the guts that my parents had!

Kevin P.


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## missouricamper (Jun 28, 2004)

I'd like to say something about the guns and knives issue.

Where I went to school we all had knives from about 3rd grade on. There were long wooden boards on the ground and we played "mummblypeg" (I don't know how to spell that?) at recess. We flipped our knives into the air and got points on how they landed. We did this so much that the school had to replace the boards every so often. We continued to carry pocketknives all through high school, boys and girls. All of us had guns in our homes too- every home had a loaded shotgun by the door. Most of the kids drove pickup trucks to school and they had gun racks with loaded guns on the school parking lot. We were all accustomed to killing - many of the kids didn't eat unless they killed for it - school was closed for deer season and turkey season. The important part though, is that the biggest crime in our school was who was putting salt in the pepper shakers in the caffeteria. I'm not sure that was ever solved.

Today's problems are not the result of guns or knives in homes or even violent music or video games. I think it has to do with parents being responsible for what their kids said and did. If we got in trouble in school, our parents went to school and made us apologize, paid for any damages and then gave us more punishment at home. Now parents threaten to sue if they bother to show up at all. 
Ok, off the soapbox... and before you think that I grew up in the middle ages, I graduated from high school in 1976 -


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

You guys are right. Maybe it's the media we are bombarded with?

Where I grew up, the newspaper came out once a week. We had to turn the antenae on the roof just right to see the Minneapolis news. There was no CNN, no FOX NEWS, no MSNBC. When something big happened...there weren't helicopters flying over the scene with a LIVE EYE IN THE SKY.

Maybe it just SEEMS worse because of the constant bombardment of SHOCK & AWE. It seems like it. Maybe school shooting did happen when we were kids...and we just didn't hear about them.


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## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

NDJollyMon said:


> You guys are right. Maybe it's the media we are bombarded with?
> 
> Where I grew up, the newspaper came out once a week. We had to turn the antenae on the roof just right to see the Minneapolis news. There was no CNN, no FOX NEWS, no MSNBC. When something big happened...there weren't helicopters flying over the scene with a LIVE EYE IN THE SKY.
> 
> ...


Say it brother. Ignorance is bliss- and I don't mean that in a snotty way. That school shooting was a huge deal if you were involved, and it's important if you're a cop trying to learn from other incidents. But if you're like the other 99.9% of us, its just a dramatic lead story on the nightly news designed to scare us into watching in the first place.


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## borntorv (Apr 13, 2004)

I'd agree with the bulk of what's been stated in this thread. I do take exception though to the notion that today's realities are no different then from past generations. That somehow the media now sensationalizes events that previously went unreported and that we were in some sort of naive dreamworld as kids. Believe me, I have plenty of problems with our salacious, shock oriented media but lets be honest, things have changed.

If you're old enough to have teenagers, then you'll recall as a kid, a "drive by" might have included mooning someone but not shooting at them. There were illegal substances being used by the "druggies" (and everybody knew who they were) but there weren't neighborhood meth labs. Perhaps my memory fails me but I honestly don't remember ever hearing of a Columbine type scenario prior to the last decade. Boys used to brag about getting to "first base" with their "steadys". Now boys (and girls?) brag about how many times with how many "partners".

I agree wholeheartedly with some of the other posts that there has been a serious breakdown in parental responsibility. Furthermore, IMHO, that breakdown has resulted in a fundamental lack of respect on the part of our youth. I'm frankly shocked at the general disregard for authority displayed by so many of our young people. Be it toward teachers, religious leaders, law enforcement officers or adults in general. It just seems as though far too many kids today are ignorant and/or dismissive of the behavioral expectations that adult society has requested of them. Please don't misunderstand, I'm not putting all the blame on kids. They are the product of their parents and many deserve our admiration. After all, it is we adults who have the duty and privilege to help in the formation of our young. Bottom line is we have to do better.

I apologize for straying far from the usual upbeat tenor of this site but what occurred in Red Lake must never become accepted as yet another incurable societal ill. God help us!!


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

I'm going to induldge in a little "naval contimplation" right now. When I was a teenager in the '70s I was what we used to call a "wild child". The reasons really don't need to be hashed out but let's just say that there was a noticeable lack of parental involvement in my life. I was one of the "druggies". Like a lot of boys living in the Appalachain Mountains I carried knives and kept a couple of guns handy. Like a lot of screwed-up youth I tended to hang around other screwed-up youth. All of use had knives and guns. Until I put my life on track in my early 20's, I pretty much was surrounded by the potential for disaster. In all that time I never knew anyone, not one person, to ever use their weapons on people. Why? I don't know for sure but I have an opinion that we had never been exposed to any people or media that did not value life as absolutely sacred. We mave have been screwing up our lives but we were living and we believed that everyone's life was valuable.

I think we have allowed our children to become exposed to evil. We have allowed them to become desensitized to the value of human life. There was violence in media when I was a kid but it was much, much less graphic and pervasive. We allow children to play video games in which the object is to kill, torture, maim, steal, assault and otherwise degrade other human beings and NOBODY CARES!

My kids are 4 and 7. Neither one of them has ever been allowed to watch graphically violent movies, including "horror" movies. We watch what they watch and have been known to move them away from some "childrens" programs because we disapproved of their content. We try to know who their friends are and meet their parents. I hear this argument from co-workers with kids the same ages as mine that "kids will be exposed to it sooner or later. This will help them learn to deal with it when they see it in real life." My opinion is that this is nonsense. Why is it a given that my kids will see mass murder, brutal rape and assault, and killing other human beings for sport? Other people can raise their children with such a fatalistic attitude but we will not. No wonder kids can kill. They really don't understand the value of human life.

We take our kids camping so they can see that there is more to life than the boundries of the walls of their home and school. It is so we can share a special and important part of their lives with them in a intiment way. They learn not only the wonders of the outside world but gain a measure of confidence by meeting and interacting with other kids with different backgrounds and experiences. They value the lives of others because we value their lives so highly and value the lives of others so highly. Camping is an outlet and an escape. I am a better parent to my children by giving them this.

I'll get off the old soapbox. I pray for our world. I pray for our kids. Violence is not inevitable. Work with your kids and watch out for and try to help those kids that appear lost. Looks are seldom deceiving.

Reverie


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