# Furnace Problem



## outbacker23

I thought i had better come and post in the appropriate forum. I went out to my 18RS today to start all over after getting the excellent advice in the "new outback forum". I opened both propane tanks, and replaced the blown furnace fuse, and the red light to the right of the fuse went out. Set the remote on heat at 72 degrees and the battery started it. Furnace started great and was putting out fantastic warm air. I went out to place my trailer tag on the rear of the Outback on the flimsy plastic license plate holder. I broke the plastic off on both sides. What pitiful pieces of plastic to mount the license plate to. I will go back tomorrow and drill a couple holes in the rear bumper to place the tag. Went back inside to check how the furnace had heated up the inside. Lo and behold the furnace fuse had blown again. It blew five 15 amp fuses in a row everytime i put a new fuse in. I said hell with it all and came back home to post on this forum before i mess something else up. I was a meatcutter for 30 years, and when it comes to electrical maintenance...i am a total klutz. Any advice about why the furnace fuses keep blowing? When i left the Outback, it showed my battery level was 75%. When i started today...it was 100%. Thanks


----------



## PDX_Doug

Ah... electrical problems. Never a fun time!

My first question would be, Are you still under warranty? It sounds like the trailer is new, so if you are, I would get it back to the dealer pronto for service. Fuses blow because of a short circuit, and that can be a bear to track down, especially if you are not good with things electrical.

It's total speculation at this point, of course, but I would guess that the problem is in the furnace itself. Since the fuse does not blow immediately, that would tell me that it may not simply be a chafed wire grounding to the frame or the like. The fact that the furnace runs for awhile might mean that the short is indirectly heat related. That maybe everything is fine when the furnace is cool, but as it heats up, maybe a wire inside softens up a bit, and sags just enough to short across something. As I said, pure speculation, based on a limited amount of information to go on.

So I guess, warranty or not, I would call the dealer or a local mobile RV service company, and have a pro take a look.

Good luck, and please keep us posted.

Happy Trails,
Doug


----------



## Ghosty

Fuse blowing is a sign of a short -- and thats always bad...

Yes you could take the easy way out and completely dismantle everything from top to bottom -- spend millions of hours of work and thousands of dollars on beer --

or plan B would be to take it in... there are so many things that it could be -- the durnace blower could be bad and drawing toooo much amperage -- their could be a short in the wire -- the circuit board could be over heating... or the planets could all be lining up wrong....

If its under warranty -- have them take a look at it ... when it comes to furnace electrical stuff -- there is just toooomuch to try to diagnosis yourself --

.02c


----------



## N7OQ

Like the others said if it is under warranty then get it in and get it fixed. My guess would be the circulation fan motor, this is the biggest current draw in the system. I would make sure it spins freely, put a amp meter on it and see how much it is drawing. I think you said it would run for awhile so it is not a direct short unless it is a loose or chafed wire that is shorting when it is vibrated. What ever you do *don't* put in a bigger fuse like a 20 amp.


----------



## outbacker23

N7OQ said:


> Like the others said if it is under warranty then get it in and get it fixed. My guess would be the circulation fan motor, this is the biggest current draw in the system. I would make sure it spins freely, put a amp meter on it and see how much it is drawing. I think you said it would run for awhile so it is not a direct short unless it is a loose or chafed wire that is shorting when it is vibrated. What ever you do *don't* put in a bigger fuse like a 20 amp.


I called the dealer 300 miles away. He told me to call the nearest Keystone dealer to me. I did, and everyone had left for the weekend. I was told that if they could find a tech on call that they would have him call me. No calls yet. The service charge will be $45.00, and the warranty will pay for all parts needed. Now to wait until Monday when everyone comes back to work. I will get it done one way or the other eventually. In the meantime i will install the sliding shower door, and the holding box for the slide brace rods, six volt batteries, and figure out how easy it is to dewinterize the trailer. Thanks to all who responded.


----------



## outbacker23

Athomas said:


> Like the others said if it is under warranty then get it in and get it fixed. My guess would be the circulation fan motor, this is the biggest current draw in the system. I would make sure it spins freely, put a amp meter on it and see how much it is drawing. I think you said it would run for awhile so it is not a direct short unless it is a loose or chafed wire that is shorting when it is vibrated. What ever you do *don't* put in a bigger fuse like a 20 amp.


I called the dealer 300 miles away. He told me to call the nearest Keystone dealer to me. I did, and everyone had left for the weekend. I was told that if they could find a tech on call that they would have him call me. No calls yet. The service charge will be $45.00, and the warranty will pay for all parts needed. Now to wait until Monday when everyone comes back to work. I will get it done one way or the other eventually. In the meantime i will install the sliding shower door, and the holding box for the slide brace rods, six volt batteries, and figure out how easy it is to dewinterize the trailer. Thanks to all who responded.
[/quote]

I just cannot get my mind wrapped around this situation. I disconnected the OB's battery, had no power supply connected whatsoever, had the breaker turned off, and tried to replace the furnace 15 amp fuse for the umpteenth time. Still get sparks when the fuse touches the little receptacle it plugs into. This is without any power source whatever. How much power is stored in the converter? And is it the converter that is causing the fuse to spark and continuously blow? I am ready to call a mobile Heat and Air guy just to have this come to an end.


----------



## tdvffjohn

Puzzling indeed.

My father was lucky enough to find a mobile repair person who was able to do warranty work. You might get lucky and locate one. If you know any seasonal campers, they might have someone to suggest. Rarely are there seasonal campers who can pull the TT back to a dealer.

John


----------



## kmcfetters

Is the screw in the fuse box tight. I had my slide to keep blowing fuses and it was the screw in the fuse box. A quick tighten and all was fixed---I also tightened the rest of them.


----------



## outbacker23

kmcfetters said:


> Is the screw in the fuse box tight. I had my slide to keep blowing fuses and it was the screw in the fuse box. A quick tighten and all was fixed---I also tightened the rest of them.


I tightened all the screws in the fuse box...but no help. I have an appointment to take the 18RS in to get it looked at in 8 days. You will not believe what i found yesterday when i took the mattress out of the rear slide platform to put a mattress cover on...the plywood that the mattress lays on is eat up with mold. I talked to Keystone in Indiana about this, and they called my nearest Outback dealer to help me get in to check it out. I have pictures of the mold that covers the mattress platform, and it looks like it most likely went down into the furnace area underneath the mattress platform. IT IS BAD!! I wish i knew how to post the pictures of the mold on here. No, i didn't raise the mattress when i was doing the walk through. My bad. I bought this 18RS at Quality RV in Linn Creek, Missouri, which is 300 miles away from me. I sent the pictures to Quality RV via email, but they haven't replied. Man, i am one p*&&%$ off guy ready to eat nails.


----------



## egregg57

Your fuse can be blowing due to high current draw. Such as the motor staining to overcome friction caused from something binding the shaft or fan blades.

Additionally sparking with no external or battery power can be cause by capacitors or other charge holding devices discharging.

In any case if you blow a fuse once and replace it and it blows again AND the item, camper or not is still inder warranty, get it to a service center. When the furnance was put in it may have been resting against something in the vacinity of the fan or motor, either internal to the furnace or external. In any case do not put additional fuses into it as what ever is causing the short or current draw could cause you an even bigger problem like fire.

Have it serviced. The service technician should pull out the furnace unit, inspect it for damage, debris or binding near or around moving parts, and electrically test it including firing it up outside of the camper.

Good luck, keep us posted

Eric


----------



## outbacker23

egregg57 said:


> Your fuse can be blowing due to high current draw. Such as the motor staining to overcome friction caused from something binding the shaft or fan blades.
> 
> Additionally sparking with no external or battery power can be cause by capacitors or other charge holding devices discharging.
> 
> In any case if you blow a fuse once and replace it and it blows again AND the item, camper or not is still inder warranty, get it to a service center. When the furnance was put in it may have been resting against something in the vacinity of the fan or motor, either internal to the furnace or external. In any case do not put additional fuses into it as what ever is causing the short or current draw could cause you an even bigger problem like fire.
> 
> Have it serviced. The service technician should pull out the furnace unit, inspect it for damage, debris or binding near or around moving parts, and electrically test it including firing it up outside of the camper.
> 
> Good luck, keep us posted
> 
> Eric


Howdy folks,
Well, this morning my grand daughter came into this world without any problems whatsoever. Healthy 8lbs. My daughter-in-law had some complications during the term which had me stressed to the max. Now i can clear my head and get busy with my Outback, and quit making stupid mistakes like forgetting to turn on the propane to use the furnace







The folks from Quality RV got in touch with me this morning about the mold problem in the Outback. They are a great bunch of folks at Quality RV, and i got very stressed over it, but things are moving now to correct the problems with furnace and mold. I was also contacted by the Keystone Representative in Goshen, Indiana and those folks are going to make everything right. I have the appointment set for the 22nd to take the 18RS into my local dealer. I love my Outback and am looking forward to getting out there with it. I thank everyone very kindly for all the answers during this trying time.


----------



## skippershe

A baby Girl! 


















Glad to hear you're being well taken care of by Keystone and Quality RV...you'll be out camping happy before you know it


----------



## tdvffjohn

Congradulations on the Granddaughter









Glad to hear your problem is also being taken care of.

John


----------



## Oregon_Camper

Congrats on the Granddaughter!!!

Keep us posted on the heater issues.


----------



## outbacker23

Oregon_Camper said:


> Congrats on the Granddaughter!!!
> 
> Keep us posted on the heater issues.


Hello again folks,
I took my new 18RS to American RV in Olive Branch, Mississippi 10 days ago as it is the nearest dealer to me, and the Keystone rep in Indiana told me to take it there. I called American RV today to see how things were coming along with my Outback. The service department told me that she believed everything was finished. She said they fixed the short that was causing the furnace fuse to keep blowing, and the jack that no longer worked. I asked if they got rid of all the mold under the mattress that is all over the platform, but she said she would call me back in a few minutes. She did call back, and stated "we didn't know you had taken pictures of the mold and sent them to Keystone". I guess they were going to have me come pick up the Outback with the mold still all over the inside, but found out that i have pictures of it all. I was finally told that the Outback may have to be sent back to the factory. Of course i talked to the dealer at Quality RV in Linn Creek, Missouri where i bought the 18RS, and he has stated that he will contact the Goshen Keystone rep. I also talked to the rep at Keystone today, and he couldn't figure out, just like i cannot figure out, what the hell it matters if i have pictures or not of all the mold in the Outback....why not just go ahead and fix the damned thing right so i can use the rig. I haven't gotten to the point of hiring an attorney yet because i would much rather just have my trailer fixed right, but man o man, why me??


----------



## outbacker23

Athomas said:


> Congrats on the Granddaughter!!!
> 
> Keep us posted on the heater issues.


Hello again folks,
I took my new 18RS to American RV in Olive Branch, Mississippi 10 days ago as it is the nearest dealer to me, and the Keystone rep in Indiana told me to take it there. I called American RV today to see how things were coming along with my Outback. The service department told me that she believed everything was finished. She said they fixed the short that was causing the furnace fuse to keep blowing, and the jack that no longer worked. I asked if they got rid of all the mold under the mattress that is all over the platform, but she said she would call me back in a few minutes. She did call back, and stated "we didn't know you had taken pictures of the mold and sent them to Keystone". I guess they were going to have me come pick up the Outback with the mold still all over the inside, but found out that i have pictures of it all. I was finally told that the Outback may have to be sent back to the factory. Of course i talked to the dealer at Quality RV in Linn Creek, Missouri where i bought the 18RS, and he has stated that he will contact the Goshen Keystone rep. I also talked to the rep at Keystone today, and he couldn't figure out, just like i cannot figure out, what the hell it matters if i have pictures or not of all the mold in the Outback....why not just go ahead and fix the damned thing right so i can use the rig. I haven't gotten to the point of hiring an attorney yet because i would much rather just have my trailer fixed right, but man o man, why me??








[/quote]
Need some feedback please,
I got a call this morning from American RV from the guy who re-wired my Outback due to the short that kept blowing fuses. He stated that during production a furnace wire was cut and that was the problem, and it has completely been re-wired. He also replaced the trailer jack that was faulty. Now, this brings me to the mold problem under the mattress and down into the area under the plywood platform. He said that if i want the Outback returned, i would have to sign a waiver releasing them from any future health problems due to my exposure to the black mold. Now, Keystone has agreed to take the unit back to the factory to completely replace the rear slide, but cannot pick up the Outback until March 8th from American RV, but the rep from Quality RV is trying to get Keystone to expedite this due to the fact that my house is under contract to sell within 30 days. I had planned to head out to Arizona when my house sold, (with the Outback), but that ain't gonna happen now. The most pressing question i have to you experts at this is: even if Keystone replaces the entire rear slide which will obviously include the mattress platform, will there still be lingering black mold in the unit? By the way, i did ask that my money be refunded, but Quality RV won't refund because i bought the unit new 3 1/2 weeks ago, and it is now a used unit. I also asked for a replacement Outback, but that ain't gonna happen either. Folks, i am not normally a complainer, but this all has gotten way crazy now and i need some advice before i hire an attorney and sue to get my money back. Yep, i paid cash for the Outback and was planning on living in it fulltime for a few months until i found the right house in either Globe or Yuma. So much for my happy retirement years huh?


----------



## CamperAndy

Do you photos you can post of the mold? I know it can be an issue but is it really that bad? Taking the trailer to the dry conditions in Arizona may help prevent more mold issues.


----------



## outbacker23

CamperAndy said:


> Do you photos you can post of the mold? I know it can be an issue but is it really that bad? Taking the trailer to the dry conditions in Arizona may help prevent more mold issues.


CamperAndy, of course i have photos. Keystone wouldn't take the rig back to replace the entire rear slide if it was only a little speck of mold. It is very bad and i believe i uploaded one of the 15 pictures to my album. It is like this over the entire rear mattress platform. The plywood is almost completely rotten in spots. What you said "is it really that bad" is exactly the attitude i get from the dealers...."blame the consumer".


----------



## CamperAndy

Athomas said:


> Do you photos you can post of the mold? I know it can be an issue but is it really that bad? Taking the trailer to the dry conditions in Arizona may help prevent more mold issues.


CamperAndy, of course i have photos. Keystone wouldn't take the rig back to replace the entire rear slide if it was only a little speck of mold. It is very bad and i believe i uploaded one of the 15 pictures to my album. It is like this over the entire rear mattress platform. The plywood is almost completely rotten in spots. What you said "is it really that bad" is exactly the attitude i get from the dealers...."blame the consumer".
[/quote]

I asked about the photos as it would be nice to see one in the post.

A three week old trailer is not your fault and I do not blame you but there is always the concern in my mind that sometimes it may be a "Chicken Little" issue. Completely rotted is not a mold issue.

FYI - I could not locate any photos posted in the Outbackers Gallery by you but that does not mean they are not there. If you can post one in this thread that would be helpful.


----------



## Collinsfam_WY

It sounds like that your problem isn't that Keystone is refusing to help - it's that they aren't going to help in the timeframe that you require. That is a rough deal considering your situation. I hope that your expedite goes through. Keystone is a stand-up company in that regard - there are many other mfg's out there that might be of little to no help at all in comparison. If the plywood is quite rotted as you say...it sounds like that massive water damage took place. I would look at the rest of the camper closely prior to assuming that it is just the slide. Best of luck.

-CC


----------



## HuckZito

3 1/2 weeks??
I think you are due a replacement. The damage obviously took place before you bought the trailer.

I suggest calling the dealer and Keystone and let them know that you intend to write a letter to one of the RV magazine columns that step in and help out with these kinds of issues.

I have read many times where people were having problems with dealers or manufactures and as soon as the magazine gets involved attitudes change and problems are able to be solved quickly.

It is my opinion that making you wait for weeks, or months and forcing you to alter your plans is unacceptable.

Good Luck and Congratulations on the new Granddaughter!

Dave


----------



## Lady Di

You said you asked for your money back, but could you just get a new replacement trailer?

Wouldn't that be the same?


----------



## outbacker23

Lady Di said:


> You said you asked for your money back, but could you just get a new replacement trailer?
> 
> Wouldn't that be the same?


Been a while since i posted on here. I got my Outback returned from the factory a few days ago. Everything was rebuilt by Keystone...all new furniture and the works. Completely new rear slide-out. There was a void in the silicone on the rear slide that caused the leak. Furnace is now working fine. It had a cut wire during the building and installalation in the 18RS. I got a letter also stating the Outback is now mold free after it was tested. I just bought two T-105's and was going to put them on the Outback tomorrow, but i just found out from reading an old post on here that the cover will not fit back over the propane tanks with the T-105's in place. Is this true? If so, does anyone have any suggestions about a mod or a different type cover. Thanks folks for all the replys. The Keystone rep really went to bat for me and went the extra mile getting my 18RS back to better than new shape, and i am ready to spend my first day and night camping in it.


----------



## 2500Ram

Glad your trailer is back and better than new








Thanks for the update.

I would start a new topic to get more views on your battery question.

Good luck

Bill.


----------



## CamperAndy

To install the taller batteries you will have to cut out the stock trays and lower them. If they hang down a couple of inches you won't notice it.


----------



## outbacker23

CamperAndy said:


> To install the taller batteries you will have to cut out the stock trays and lower them. If they hang down a couple of inches you won't notice it.


I got the T-105's installed and the cover fit over everything just fine with room to spare. It surprised me! I am really getting into working on the Outback now and will do the pleated shower door tomorrow. I will start a new thread because i am wearing this one out. It is great to have my rig back and getting it ready to hit the road. I know Camping World must love me


----------

