# Ford Or Dodge Diesel...ford Experts?



## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

I am currently seriously searching to upgrade to a 3/4 or 1 ton truck due to the need for more cargo capacity. I also need to stay used and less than 2 years old with a 8' bed, this has made teh search a tad challenging. However i have found a couple canidates that are fairly close in price and options, yet different brands.

Having owned a Dodge ctd in the past i knwo it is a fairly bullet proof engine and keep getting drawn back to dodge even though my last truck fromt hem was a nightmare. I have never owned a ford, but have found a 2008 model with the 6.4 and low mileage. Oh yeah, the ford is a 1 ton srw and the dodge is a 3/4, however the dodge has a few more trickets on board but a slightly higher price tag.

Can anyone with the ford 6.4 give me any incite on this engine? Issues, things to look out for? I know to ask for an oasis report, ford diesels make me a tad nervous with all the engine changes.

Thanks


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

If you plan on keeping the ford past 100k miles, buy an extended warranty. The cab needs to be removed if any major engine/turbo work needs done. So tack on 2500 to the price of the repair beyond the engine work. Just go look under the hood on each. Youll see what I mean.

Carey


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

i would love to say i this truck woudl be with me past 100k miles, but that would be a lie. Are the maintenence items easily accessable?


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

1jeep said:


> I am currently seriously searching to upgrade to a 3/4 or 1 ton truck due to the need for more cargo capacity. I also need to stay used and less than 2 years old with a 8' bed, this has made teh search a tad challenging. However i have found a couple canidates that are fairly close in price and options, yet different brands.
> 
> Having owned a Dodge ctd in the past i knwo it is a fairly bullet proof engine and keep getting drawn back to dodge even though my last truck fromt hem was a nightmare. I have never owned a ford, but have found a 2008 model with the 6.4 and low mileage. Oh yeah, the ford is a 1 ton srw and the dodge is a 3/4, however the dodge has a few more trickets on board but a slightly higher price tag.
> 
> ...


The 6.4L has been a pretty reliable engine. The real damage to the reputation was early model 6.0L's which were riddled with issues. The big complaint that people give (me included) is that the fuel economy is not the best. This was made worse by the gearing choices in some of the trucks that allowed them to pull mountains. (I've driven a F450 with the 4.88 rear end, and it was a beast, but 12mpg city was the best fuel economy you would ever see as it was lower on the highway due to engine revs being up there). My truck has the 3.55 rear end and spends 95% of it's solo driving time in what I would deem light city traffic. There are lights every mile or two and I can make several before getting stopped. In that driving enviornment with 23k on the ODO, my lifetime average is 14.5mpg. That's the same as my F150 got driving the same route. Not too bad for a 8k lb truck. On the Highway with our OB, we got 10 mpg on a round trip from MI to Yellowstone NP. The worst economy was bucking headwinds in the plains. One trip I took in MI with the Outback yielded 12.7mpg. The 5'er dropped this a bit







to around 9mpg on a roundtrip to Colorado (but that's with a 13' tall wall and a weight north of 12k lbs.

I haven't driven the 6.7L Cummins, but the 6.4L has no shortage of power. I stopped the truck and trailer on an at least 6% grade in Rocky mountain NP this summer. 8,000 ft elevation and the aforementioned 5'er behind me. (Figure a little over 20k total weight) Well, when I stepped into the throttle, the truck pulled nicely and actually out accelerated the small car in front of me to the point where I had to back off the throttle. Now that is power!









I have seen these comments on the number of changes with the engine. So, here goes with a brief summary:
-7.3L tried and true beast of a V8. Sure it has a few minor issues, but is still considered a nice reliable Diesel.

-6.0L - Engine was more refined (read quieter, smoother), and acutally performed better than the 7.3L. Unfortunately the execution left a little to be desired and it took several years to get the reliability up.

-6.4L - Improved 6.0L designed to meet the emission rules for soot (this added the DPF and dropped fuel economy)

-6.7L - Internally designed engine to replace the International units. This is needed to meet NOx emission regs

As an aside, the Cummins had a 5.9L 12V engine, a 5.9L 24V engine, the current 6.7L engine, and I hear the addition of Urea injection on the 6.7L for 2010. GM appears to have done the least with the Duramax that was a 6.5L and is now a 6.6L, but in reality much of the engine has changed over the years and they are prepping for another big change with the 2010 emissions as well. My point is just that the only real problem was the early 6.0L's and some of these changes were for reasons other than there being problems.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

1jeep said:


> i would love to say i this truck woudl be with me past 100k miles, but that would be a lie. Are the maintenence items easily accessable?


If by maintenance you mean the routine kind, then yes. There's a fuel filter under the cab and one in the engine compartment. The oil filter is under the hood as well. Someone here said that the frame mounted fuel filter was hard to change, but I can't comment as I paid to have it done









Carey's right though that many major component fixes would require removal of the cab. This is expensive to pay to have done and the big deal is it is nearly impossible to do yourself.


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

nathan thanks for the info, i had a CTD 5.9 12v and cant say anything negative about the engine except that things that was bolted to it was less than good.

I have driven a dodge 6.7 with 6 speed auto and found to be very nice on the power side. Tonight i am supposed to go drive the ford, i have driven the 6.0 ford and was less than impressed, but that was a used 06 model.

I am not concerned with my next truck lasting a million miles, but more so at least 150k. My other concern is doing my own maintenance, i have zero experience with the ford. oil, filter, etc, i have no plans to tear down and engine and do a ring job.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

1jeep said:


> nathan thanks for the info, i had a CTD 5.9 12v and cant say anything negative about the engine except that things that was bolted to it was less than good.
> 
> I have driven a dodge 6.7 with 6 speed auto and found to be very nice on the power side. Tonight i am supposed to go drive the ford, i have driven the 6.0 ford and was less than impressed, but that was a used 06 model.
> 
> I am not concerned with my next truck lasting a million miles, but more so at least 150k. My other concern is doing my own maintenance, i have zero experience with the ford.


You're doing the right thing! Test drive both, check both histories, and then make the decision that is best for you. The Ford only has a 5 speed auto until next year which is one reason why it struggles on fuel a little more than the Dodge. When you test drive it, go ahead and pop the hood. The front bumper has plastic on top to use as a step so you can see in the engine bay. On top just to the right when facing the engine, you'll see 2 plastic filter assemblies. They are pretty easy to get to. The undercab fuel filter should be on the Driver's side, but I've honestly never even looked for mine.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

The 6.4 requires a cab removal for ANY turbo problem. And being the turbos, yes 2 of them, are problematic after 100k you better get am extended warranty if you get the ford. No, I wouldnt expect a ring job will be needed at 150k. But a turbo problem is very likely.

Otherwise I would own a ford too. I love the truck.

Carey


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

I just bought a 2009 Dodge 2500 and my next door neighbor got a 2010 Ford F250, both diesels. Neither one of us has had them long enough to make any meaningful assessments yet. They both have tons of power, and both have their good and bad points. The Ford is a little quieter running and the crew cab has more room than my Dodge with a quad cab. The Ford's engine is really crammed in there and I can see why you would have to remove the cab to do any work. I do have to say that the 6-speed transmission on the Dodge is better than the Ford 5-speed. The 6-speed auto with the exhaust brake is outstanding for slowing you down without using the service brakes. Make sure you take that jake brake into account in your decision - it's a great feature that comes standard on the Dodge with the 6.7L and will probably save you on the cost of replacing your brake pads and shoes over the long run.

JD


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

If you are going used, why not look at the pre-emission models?

They have less headaches, and they will be cheaper to buy, since they are from 2007 on the Dodge and older, and 2006 and lower on the Ford's....

The emissions systems are what give the newer diesels the issues.

Steve


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## Tyvekcat (Aug 28, 2007)

Hey 1Jeep: I see in your signature, you have that 'Big' Tundra. I seen on them Toyota commercials on TV that it tows as much as my little Dodge. Why would you want to get rid of it? LOL (just pickin)
I can tell you as a satisfied Dodge owner, its a great truck, with excellent fuel mileage, towing or not. This one is my second Dodge. I'm not hard on it though. I like it. Just changed the front and rear differential fluid. Last long time.

How come your Jeep is not listed in your sig? I have a 98 TJ model, straight six. Awesome Jeep, hate they don't make the TJ anymore.


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## kobuyashi (Sep 30, 2009)

I've heard that the newer Ford Diesels were problematic due to a falling out with International who supplies there engines. That is supposedly the reason that Ford has designed and will produce their own engines for the 2011 models...but can't say I've known of one personally, I just do a lot of reading. Could just be the rumor mill at work. Cummins have proven to be very good though. Diesels are awesome, nothing like them...Torque


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

Tyvekcat said:


> Hey 1Jeep: I see in your signature, you have that 'Big' Tundra. I seen on them Toyota commercials on TV that it tows as much as my little Dodge. Why would you want to get rid of it? LOL (just pickin)
> I can tell you as a satisfied Dodge owner, its a great truck, with excellent fuel mileage, towing or not. This one is my second Dodge. I'm not hard on it though. I like it. Just changed the front and rear differential fluid. Last long time.
> 
> How come your Jeep is not listed in your sig? I have a 98 TJ model, straight six. Awesome Jeep, hate they don't make the TJ anymore.


yes i do have the big tundra and it doesnt have any power issues but falls short on payload. So if i take my 900lb harley along i am way over weight.

I had a 94 CTD years ago and up til the tundra had nothing but dodges, so i am more comfortable with the cummins over the ford. I just cam back from test driving the ford and was impressed with tehe 6.4, then i looked under the hood and got scared.

just sold the jeep it was a mix CJ, 401/muncie 465/dana 300/dana 60 front and rear with 4:56 and detroits riding on 38" swampers.

Why not an older CTD, if i go with the dodge i want the 6 speed autp with the exhaust brake.


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

Chevy an option?? Have been very happy so far. Stump pulling power and 6speed trans. New body style are 07.5 and up. They do have the new emissions as well.

I do agree with Huntr70 that pre emissions would be the best if you are looking for used. He has had very good luck with his and he can almost keep up with me.









Seriously, having owned an 05 Ford 6.0 and seen the cab off it for a turbo and headgaskets at about 75k. If chevy is a no for you, I would seek out the Dodge. Any of them will have you redefining your defination of "my Tundra has plenty of power".









Good luck. Jim


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

When I was truck shopping two years ago I thought the same thing when I looked under the hood of the Ford. I planned to keep the truck well past the warranty period and with the Ford you can't even see the engine. I hope their new one is better but I sort of doubt it since maintenance accessibility (other than the basics) is rarely a concern to the designers. I've been happy with my Dodge and would recommend one. Others have had issues with the emissions garbage but I think they've got that pretty well sorted out. The only thing they don't seem to like is short stop and go trips where the systems never get worked hard.

If you don't plan to keep the truck long enough to worry about major maintenance then just pick the one that you like and don't worry about the motors.

The 2007 and older Dodges with the 5.9 are nice but the automatic transmissions aren't very good but once again it's probably good enough. One thing to consider is the value in a few years. I suspect the older Dodges will be sought after because of their lack of emissions and easy ability for big power with programmers.


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

1Jeep, we love our Ram diesel. Here is a link to a website and a pos that might be helpful to you in spcific "quirks". The website has proven invaluable to me with my truck. Good Luck. Phillip

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/happy-owners-t253859.html


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

1Jeep,

I know you said you wanted the Dodge 6.7 with the auto and exhaust brake combo but if price is a concern you might want to consider an 05 or 06 with the 5.9 and the older 4 speed auto. You can add the exhaust brake easily which a buddy of mine did and it works very well. The 4 speed auto is okay at stock power levels and the 5.9 without emissions is better suited to being a daily driver if that's how you plan on using the truck in addition to towing. I did a quick check in my area and there were a fair number of trucks available for much less than the 07s and 08s. Also with all of the rebates on the new trucks you might find a better deal on a new one, especially if you could find an 08 still on the lot.


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

On the subject of used trucks, keep in mind that early '07 Rams are equiped with the 5.9L and 4 speed auto. From what I have seen, the early '07 Rams have a pretty good demand since that is the last year of the 5.9L The 5.9L is a favorite for those wishing to mod them out. phillip


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

I havent ruled out the Dmax, my father has one and its been good for him. However i have not found any in my area with at least the extended cab and a 8' bed that isnt a dually.

I know the 5.9 cummins is a great engine, i just dont want that 4 speed transmission.

AS much as i really liked the ride and looks of the ford, i still am very concerned about the engine. So with this said i will search for a dodge, i have made my mind up and it must be the 6.7 with the 6 speed auto. I have even found one in a nearby state that has everything i want, unfortunatly due to a business trip i wont be able to get to it until next weekend.


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

[quote name='1jeep' date='08 October 2009 - 08:00 AM' timestamp='1255003237' post='366650']
I havent ruled out the Dmax, my father has one and its been good for him. However i have not found any in my area with at least the extended cab and a 8' bed that isnt a dually.

Yeah. It would have to be a 2500 most likely. I know they don't even offer the 3500 now, only dually. But those years you are looking at, I believe the 3500 only came in the 8' bed. Little harder to find I'm sure.

Good luck. Sound slike you know what you want and that is the hardest part. That and having the patience to hold out for "the one".

Jim


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

thats been the problem for me, everything comes with a 6 foot bed or is a dually and where this is going to be my daily driver i dont or need big hips hanging out.

Again nothgin against ford, i really like the f350 looks and ride, just that diesel engine worries me. And where i am buying used i dont want to be in someone else's problem.


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## raynardo (Jun 8, 2007)

There's a adage that says the best truck would have a Ford interior, a Dodge engine, and a GM transmission.

Having said that, I'm extremely satisfied with my 2006 Ford F-250 PSD CC 4x4. I use it exclusively to tow my 2006 OB 26RKS. In the three plus years I've had it, I've towed my OB over 37K miles and have been averaging 11.22mpg (spreadsheet calculated from day one).

Another advantage of the engine on my truck is that it was the last edition that didn't require ULSD, and being as close to Mexico that I am, I don't have to worry if the fuel I find is truly ULSD.

I love my truck, as I'm sure that every other person who has any other brand does. When I went to buy a new truck, my criteria were met by the Ford I now have. Remember, your mileage may vary.


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

yes that would be a nice truck, however i have read a lot about the new dodge tranny and might be as good as the Allison.

Again i am not trying to beat down the ford, because i think if they called me back and took $5k off the truck and gave me the extended warranty i would most likely be driving it tonight.


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## BirminghamRTR (Oct 8, 2009)

1jeep - other than the issue with your bike, how did the Tundra handle with your TT?


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

I just went through looking for a Dodge. I also wanted a 6.7 CTD. My dad drives a 2007 and swears by it. He tows a big 5th wheel with it and he also has another Dodge 1500 with more than 200K miles on it that he uses as his daily driver. He hasn't had hardly any issues with either of them. I was dead set on buying a used one and I really did my homework and went to a bunch of dealers and talked to private sellers, but they wanted sky-high prices for the used 6.7's around here and no one really wanted to deal. For example, I found a used 2007 with a crew cab, short bed only 10K miles and basic features and they wanted $36K. They would only come down to $34K after I went round and round in circles with them for a couple weeks. Another truck was an 07 with 25K miles that had been in an accident and was a dealer buy-back and they wouldn't go below $29K (they were also asking $36K).

With all the rebates on the new 2009s that are still on the lots, I ended up going with one of them. I got mine new for $37900 and it's an SLT with the Bighorn package and a bunch of options - the sticker price was $50K. Remember that because of the stimulus plan, you also get your sales taxes reimbursed on any new vehicles you buy this year (at least that's my understanding - I guess I'll find out for sure when April 15th rolls around







), but you won't get your taxes back if you buy a used one. If you're looking to finance, you'll typically get lower rates with a new truck. Also, you'll get the full warranty and you don't have to worry about all the issues that might come with a used truck. I also got the dealer to throw in free oil changes for three years. I just got my coupon book that can be used for oil changes at any Chrysler dealer a couple weeks ago. That's worth a lot of money on a diesel! That was my reasoning for going for a new one. I didn't really want to do it and I hope you can find a better deal than I could on a used one.

Anyway, for me, it ended up making more sense to buy the new one. So far I'm really happy with it. I'm towing my Outback up to the Salmon River this weekend - the salmon are spawning and I'm gonna go catch a few!

JD


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

BirminghamRTR said:


> 1jeep - other than the issue with your bike, how did the Tundra handle with your TT?


The tundra is fine with this trailer, i just dont have enough cargo capacity.

FSHR4life....i know exactly what i want and it isnt sitting on any new lot that i have found and ive done a search for within 200 miles. I have however found the exact truck i am looking for 2008 quad 2500 6.7 auto 4x4 laramie 8' bed with 8k miles and they are asking $36k. I just hope it is still on the lot when i get back from my trip next week.
My isseue is no dealer has a truck with an 8' bed on their lot unless it is a dually and i do not want a dually.
I do know about the stimulus package and hope it is true as i bought a $35k harley earlier this season, yes i should have not spent all my money on a bike and saved some for a truck. I do plan to finance about 20k, i have a large chunk to put down, but i am also upside down on my tundra.

There seems to be an awful lot of check engine light complaints on the 6.7 cummins. I hope this is only emmision and caused by light city driving.


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

1Jeep,

That sounds like a nice truck but the price seems high. I paid $35.5K for mine brand new less than 2 years ago. There's less of a market for them now than when I bought. The one you're looking at is a 4x4 and Laramie model which adds a few thousand to the price but mine is the 2wd SLT with the MegaCab which also adds a few thousand to the price. Those factors probably even out so I would have to say that $36k is too high. Go to a site like carsdirect and price out a similar 09 truck and see what the sticker price is. You should be able to get a new one for about $12k off of the sticker so subtract a few thousand more for being a year older and used and that should give you a reasonable price range.

There have certainly been issues with the emissions and from what I've read light city driving does seem to make it more likely to happen. Dodge/Cummins have made quite a few software changes over the past 2 years that seem to be taking care of the problems. Others are just getting rid of the emissions systems but more and more states are going to be testing emissions on diesels so there is some risk in going that route. I've read many reports of good success by just disconnecting the EGR valve electrical connector. You'll get a check engine or malfunction light but it doesn't do anything else and you can always just plug it back in if needed. It will take 5 engine start stop cycles and then it will clear the EGR fault code. I'm going to try this out of curiosity to see what happens.


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

MJRey said:


> 1Jeep,
> 
> That sounds like a nice truck but the price seems high. I paid $35.5K for mine brand new less than 2 years ago. There's less of a market for them now than when I bought. The one you're looking at is a 4x4 and Laramie model which adds a few thousand to the price but mine is the 2wd SLT with the MegaCab which also adds a few thousand to the price. Those factors probably even out so I would have to say that $36k is too high. Go to a site like carsdirect and price out a similar 09 truck and see what the sticker price is. You should be able to get a new one for about $12k off of the sticker so subtract a few thousand more for being a year older and used and that should give you a reasonable price range.
> 
> There have certainly been issues with the emissions and from what I've read light city driving does seem to make it more likely to happen. Dodge/Cummins have made quite a few software changes over the past 2 years that seem to be taking care of the problems. Others are just getting rid of the emissions systems but more and more states are going to be testing emissions on diesels so there is some risk in going that route. I've read many reports of good success by just disconnecting the EGR valve electrical connector. You'll get a check engine or malfunction light but it doesn't do anything else and you can always just plug it back in if needed. It will take 5 engine start stop cycles and then it will clear the EGR fault code. I'm going to try this out of curiosity to see what happens.


Yes i know that $36k is at the high end for a used truck. but that is only what they are asking and not what i offered. The ford dealer that has a 08 f350 i like was asking $35k, i walk off and they called me yesterday to inform me they would take $30k...that ford has been on their lot for 3 months, maybe a few more weeks will lower the price enough to peek my interest enough.

For me to get new i have to order it and nobody seems to want to deal when they are ordering.


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

1jeep said:


> Yes i know that $36k is at the high end for a used truck. but that is only what they are asking and not what i offered. The ford dealer that has a 08 f350 i like was asking $35k, i walk off and they called me yesterday to inform me they would take $30k...that ford has been on their lot for 3 months, maybe a few more weeks will lower the price enough to peek my interest enough.
> 
> For me to get new i have to order it and nobody seems to want to deal when they are ordering.


I know your worried about the Fords nightmare under the hood with the 6.4 but if you're not going to keep the truck past 100K miles then why worry about it. You can get a Ford premium extended warranty for 7 years/100k miles for less than $2,500. With the price of $30k you could add the extended warranty and still have a good price. Also if you go to sell the truck in 4 or 5 years the time and miles left on the extended warranty will be a good selling point.

On the Dodge, I agree with you about the older 4 speed auto. When I was buying my truck I had the option of getting one with a 5.9 & 4 speed auto but I just didn't like the way it drove. If I had gone with the 4 speed auto I would have wanted to add the exhaust brake and some type of upgrade for the transmission. This extra cost just didn't make sense after I drove the 6.7/6-speed combo. I've been very impressed with how well it works especially on the downhills. So far the emissions have not been an issue for me except for the hit to the mileage. I rarely take short trips with my truck though.


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## cwh (Jul 8, 2009)

I own an '08 Ford F350 diesel. I've read a lot about the newer diesels and Ford has the emmissions figured out. Dodge and GM have some dpf problems to iron out but on the same token Fords milage isn't near what the other two are offering. Ford techs can have the cab in the air in under 4 hours. It makes any job on the engine and trans a whole lot easier. That said the 6.4 engine and powertrain are nearly bulletproof. I have the emmissions delete kit on my truck and don't worry about the diesel particulate filter anymore. If it needs to go in for service I can have it ready in under an hour. The added power is awesome. Oil changes are a breeze on the 6.4. The secondary fuel filter is easy as well. The primary fuel filter is not hard but a mess. If you're on a water well at home do your filter change at a friends house. Pick a friend that you don't like because they'll hate you afterward. I switched to the Ford after a long time as a GM man. I'm very happy with the truck. Milage empty on the highway is over 18. Loaded with my 5th wheel(7K #'s) is 10 to 11.

My 2 cents,

Chris


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

Ok..I have a really dumb question (not owning a Diesel). If one was not looking at keeping a vehicle over 100,000 miles.. 
Would the additional $$$ required to purchase a diesel make more since than purchasing a Gasser? I've always been under the Assumption (Probably wrong I admit) if you were planing on owning a large TV for a very extended length than the purchase of a Diesel makes the most since $$ wise. But if you were only going to own a TV for a short term - a Gasser would be the way to go >>>> Isn't a Diesel just getting broke in at 100k









Those in the know set me straight?? 
Is this train of thought just a paradigm I'm locked into.


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## cwh (Jul 8, 2009)

There's been several articals written on the subject and you're correct. The added up front price of the diesel offsets the operating costs and you end up having to keep the rig longer to make the money back. With the price of diesel up I'm sure its even worse. One thing that the money game doesn't cover is the much better towing experience that you have. There is no disputing that a diesel will tow much better than a gasser.

cwh


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

The one thing that I think is more of a myth with the newer diesels is the whole break in thing. Sure, they do improve fuel economy as they break in, but by 10-20k miles, you are there. Another misconception is that the Diesels should go a million miles without work. Parts will break on any engine, and as diesels are more expensive and often used in fleets, they will be maintained which will include replacing certain components. Prime examples of expensive components requiring replacement would include fuel injectors, turbos, and now the emission control components. Sure these should last well over 100k miles, but the engine should outlast them a couple times over.

There are plenty of examples of gas engines lasting insane time periods too, but you typically see them in the fleet situation again where the mileage is relatively easy highway miles and the maintenance is done on them. Last year there was a case of a 5.4L Econoline that had a million miles and was going strong. The owner changed the oil every 10-20k whether it needed it or not.









I guess my point is that there is more to it than the type of fuel it burns....

Now as for ROI, Diesels used to make up the return on the initial investment via increased fuel economy and reduced fuel cost. Unfortunately the fuel cost is now higher and less stable, so the ROI equation becomes a difficult one to calculate. I'll never recoup the expense for the diesel in my truck, so I have to depend on the SOI (smile on investment) every time I have to pull up a long grade with the trailer behind me.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Thats a good way to put it Nathan!

Ive got 240k on mine now. I just took a month off. Id should have had over 250k by now. All Ive done to mine is replace the belt and tensioner. I adjusted the valves at 150k. I havent touched the engine other than that. For some reason after 200k my engine picked up 1 mpg all accross the board.

I have done other work behind the engine, but the engine in my truck has been trouble free. Still running the original water pump, alternator, batteries and injectors too. I am just using the factory fuel filter too. The fuel filter I use is a over seas made LubriFiner filter that I pick up at autozone. Change oil at 15k and run 2 quarts of lucas at each oil change. I dont plan on quiting my rv hauling job anytime soon. We'll see how far she goes.

Knock on a rams horn!

Carey


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

Here is what i see now.

After looking at a F350 and the only engines offered are the 5.4, V10 and diesel. Sorry but the 5.4 makes moderate power for a 1/2 ton, put it into a heavier truck and your worse off for pulling. The V10 is a gas hog, have a buddy with one and he bought a car to commutte in because of the poor mileage. So this leaves me looking back at diesel if i want to keep a good power to weight ratio for towing. 
Dodge is even worse as they only offer the 5.7 hemi or a diesel in their larger trucks, so really i dont see a choice but to go back to diesel in order to keep decent fuel economy with good power.

I dont think i will ever see the ROI from my truck when i find it as i dont typically keep them past 100k miles. Although when i traded my 94 CTD in it had over 270k miles on it.


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

I have to agree with Nathan on the SOI (smiles on investment). I just made a 10-hour round trip through up-state NY to go fishing this weekend pulling my Outback. I was smiling the whole time with my cruise control set at 65mph. This dodge just eats up the mountains without a problem. It rarely came out of 6th gear and it only dropped down to 4th gear one time on the whole trip and that's because I was passing going up a really steep mountain







I had a Tundra pulling a TT come up next to me and act like he was gonna pass. I just pushed down the gas and left him eating my minty-fresh clean diesel exhaust on the next hill.

There's more to it than dollars and cents. A Harley isn't very practical money-wise either, but I own one too


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

duplicate entry


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

Nathan said:


> If by maintenance you mean the routine kind, then yes. There's a fuel filter under the cab and one in the engine compartment. The oil filter is under the hood as well. Someone here said that the frame mounted fuel filter was hard to change, but I can't comment as I paid to have it done


I have changed the frame-mounted fuel filter on our 2005 F250. If you have the big socket required (1 1/2 inch, as I recall), it's not bad at all.

Bill


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

1jeep said:


> Here is what i see now.
> 
> After looking at a F350 and the only engines offered are the 5.4, V10 and diesel. Sorry but the 5.4 makes moderate power for a 1/2 ton, put it into a heavier truck and your worse off for pulling. The V10 is a gas hog, have a buddy with one and he bought a car to commutte in because of the poor mileage. So this leaves me looking back at diesel if i want to keep a good power to weight ratio for towing.
> Dodge is even worse as they only offer the 5.7 hemi or a diesel in their larger trucks, so really i dont see a choice but to go back to diesel in order to keep decent fuel economy with good power.
> ...


I've been very happy with my 2004 F-250 4x4 6.8L V10 SuperCab shortbed 3:73 gasser.

Real World millage with no embellishments:
The previous owner told me before I purchased he was averaging 12.5 City , 16 highway. about 10.5 to 11 towing.
I did my own tests after I purchased.

The truck is actually averaging 9-11 mpg city or towing our 21RS. 14-15.5 highway. He was definately honest in his mpg quotes. It can tow a house all the while keeping the RPM's low. It's definitely not around the 7-9 MPG others had warned me about before my purchase. When we move up to a 5th wheel , I will definitely be looking at the F350 with similar setup.

I just clicked over 47,000 miles with the only issue - I need to replace front rotors next week. (I live off a dirt road , off a dirt road , off a dirt road and previous mud seasons have kinda tore 'em up). I've gone through quite a few trucks in my life and this setup is the best I've ever owned/towed with. 
(SOI)


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

cookie9933 said:


> If by maintenance you mean the routine kind, then yes. There's a fuel filter under the cab and one in the engine compartment. The oil filter is under the hood as well. Someone here said that the frame mounted fuel filter was hard to change, but I can't comment as I paid to have it done


I have changed the frame-mounted fuel filter on our 2005 F250. If you have the big socket required (1 1/2 inch, as I recall), it's not bad at all.

Bill
[/quote]

You can also get it with a 1/2 or 3/8 ratchet and extention, can't remember exactly which. Its just a little messy, so you need a pan to catch the fuel, because it is hanging there sideways. Its not really that hard just a little bit of a pain because the crossmember is right there.

Jim


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

The tests ive seen show the v10 staying pretty close with the ford diesel. The new v10 like Curtis has is a better engine than before. I drove his truck and that v10 of his is a ripper.

If I were only towing a sub 32 foot bumper pull or sub 34 foot 5er, I would own a v10 ford. For the amount of camping I do I like a gas engine. I tend to keep my vehicles a long time, so these new emission diesel trucks arent for me.

Yep I make a living with my truck, but if that v10 is available for making a living when im ready for a new truck, I will give that engine a hard look. We got a whole slew of them in our fleet. The difference in fual mpg is paid back with less maintance. I can think of a good bunch of v10 fords with 4-500k on them. That engine is one of the best ford has ever made for what we all do around here.

For a casual camping family its sure hard to beat.

Carey


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

When I was shopping to upgrade, I had looked at both the diesel and Gasser , one of the reasons I settled on the 6.8L V10 Gasser was at the time was It was rated at 310 horsepower with 425 foot pounds of torque. The 2004 Diesel was an additional $5,000 at the time and was rated at 325 horsepower with 550 foot pounds of torque and 325 horsepower. I never regretted losing the mere 15HP or 110 foot lbs of torque the Diesel would have provided , and keeping the 5k in my pocket sure has paid for a lot of camping trips not to mention the cost of fuel when prices were climbing almost daily.

My understanding is in 2007 Fords Triton V10 motor was able to increase overall HP and Torque to gain 362 HP and 457 foot lbs of Torque surpassing their 6.4L Diesel's 350 HP motor capabilities. Their Diesel still maintained the better torque capabilities with 650 foot pounds.


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

I am back to the begining, the 08 dodge 2500 i was going to look at tomorrow was sold last night! this has been my issue for the last few months, when i find the truck i want i dont get to it fast enough.

So i must ask this question and please be honest i dont want misleading infomation! All the ford 6.4 owners what are you getting for unloaded highway mileage? have you been happy with your truck and if so how many miles do you have on it? I still keep looking back at a 08 f350 that i really like but have never owned a ford truck. The downside that i see with teh ford is it is only a 5 speed auto and has no exhaust brake.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

1jeep said:


> I am back to the begining, the 08 dodge 2500 i was going to look at tomorrow was sold last night! this has been my issue for the last few months, when i find the truck i want i dont get to it fast enough.
> 
> So i must ask this question and please be honest i dont want misleading infomation! All the ford 6.4 owners what are you getting for unloaded highway mileage? have you been happy with your truck and if so how many miles do you have on it? I still keep looking back at a 08 f350 that i really like but have never owned a ford truck. The downside that i see with teh ford is it is only a 5 speed auto and has no exhaust brake.


I do so little solo highway driving that I really hate to comment on mileage other than resetting the trip computer usually yields ~18mpg. The highest mileage I have ever gotten on a tank was 18.4mpg, and I think that may have not been a fair top off. The next highest data point was 17.3mpg.

I have 23k miles and it's 18 months old. New I got 13.5mpg around town and I now have it up to 14.5mpg. 
The 5 speed auto is a bummer, but that is what was available.

Don't worry about the missing exhaust brake as my truck in tow/haul mode did great in the rockies with 12k lbs on it's tail. It will descend 6% grades all day with a GCW of 20k lbs and you don't need to use the brakes (unless you are trying to slow down for a hairpin curve or something).

Now, things to look for on '08 F350's. First, the front air dam got bigger to improve mileage. If the truck comes with the small dam (the plastic piece under the front bumper), you should be able to buy the Job 3 dam for ~$100 and install it. Most who do report nearly 1mpg on the highway. Second, what rear end does it have? The early models were 3.73, but they changed to 3.55 at Job 3 again for slightly improved fuel economy. I'm a little less thrilled with that change than the air dam because I'm not entirely sold on how well it worked.

The other thing that was a late add and that you might want is the winter grill cover. I think there was a TSB out to add it, but I'd make sure it was included or have them get one and throw it in. Again, about $100, but it does improve cold weather fuel economy. Put it on when temps are reliably below 50 degrees and take it off when they warm up in the spring.


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

thanks nathan, your input is well recieved. As much as i wanted the 6.7 cummins, i really like the ford better.

We'll see what happens tomorrow, i have searched within 200 miles of my house for a dodge 6.7 with a 8' bed and only found a dually. So the ford being my second choice may become my first, pending the wifes input.


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## vikecowboy (Aug 17, 2006)

You are going to miss your Tundra!

Good luck with your new tv - should solve your pay load issues.


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

vikecowboy said:


> You are going to miss your Tundra!
> 
> Good luck with your new tv - should solve your pay load issues.


Tundra , What Tundra?







*T*oyota *O*vercharges *Y*ou *O*n* T*heir *A*ccessories








You Gonna Luuuuuuuuuuuuv your Ford.


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## vikecowboy (Aug 17, 2006)

I have ridden in a Ford and used to own a few as well. Like I said - you are going to miss your Tundra









Actually I hope this work out for him - I am sure they will.


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

i actually hate to say this but the f350 i drove rode better than my tundra.

I will miss the power from the tundra's 5.7 when not towing, but i think that where it will end.


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

duplicate entry


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

vikecowboy said:


> I have ridden in a Ford and used to own a few as well. Like I said - you are going to miss your Tundra
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Me too - just pokin fun. I wish him all the best with his decision. Buying a truck is always a tough choice. Took me 6 months or more to pull the trigger and purchase.

My next truck will definitely be a F350 though ---- Unless I can negotiate a great deal on one of these







wonder if you could fit a Sauna in there ?


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Boy, too bad you arent west. The lots are stuffed full of single tire longbeds. The ranch guys use em and since many dodge dealers were closed in the country, there are tons of longbeds in the cities.

Maybe call dave smith motors in kellogg, Id. They prolly fly you out to buy one. Then by the time you got home it'd be all ready to go tow.

Just an idea..

Carey


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

i have already called them in idaho and i would have to bring my tundra out there to trade it in and he is still about $10k over my budget of $35k.

Honestly i torn between the ford and dodge, tomorrow will be the day that i see if i still like the ford.


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

Have you tried using Cars.com or Carmax . I did a search there are quite a few on Both sites. You can limit to the moles you want to drive to negotiate and/or Purchase. Just a thought.


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

too late... i now own a 2008 F350 6.4 diesel!

Cant wait to tow with this guy, next weekend is our last trip of the season.


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

WHOO HOOO! congrats! please post pics!!!!


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

Will do, i pick it up wednesday night, they are having a spray in bed liner done before i pick it up, the bed currently has nothing and not even a scratch!

It was a tough decision, i really thought about going back to a dodge to get the cummins, i just hope this 6.4 holds up as well as my 94 CTD did.


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

good lucka nd welcome to a whole new realm over towing


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> WHOO HOOO! congrats! please post pics!!!!


Definitely want to see Pics.... Congrats. 
What options did you go for?


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

1jeep said:


> too late... i now own a 2008 F350 6.4 diesel!
> 
> Cant wait to tow with this guy, next weekend is our last trip of the season.


Congatulations...

Where are you heading for the last trip.

John


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

its a 2008 f350, 6.4 4x4 lariat super cab dark green with tan leather. from what i see the only option it doesnt have is a sunroof which was a fair trade for a 8' bed.

johnp ..heading to Odetah in Ct next friday for our halloween camptrip.


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

1jeep said:


> its a 2008 f350, 6.4 4x4 lariat super cab dark green with tan leather. from what i see the only option it doesnt have is a sunroof which was a fair trade for a 8' bed.
> 
> johnp ..heading to Odetah in Ct next friday for our halloween camptrip.


Have Fun....Were off to Normandy Farms same thing Halloween weekend then blow out the lines until Thanksgiving in Florida.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Congrats and good luck with the new ford. You will be noticing some improvements this weekend. Have fun!

Carey


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

Better bring your snow suit to foxboro if the weather continues like yesterday with snow!

I am certain just by going to diesel i will see a difference.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Congrats on the new truck!









For optimum fuel economy, keep the rpms below 2k and the turbo below 10psi (each tick mark on the gauge is 10 psi).

For optimum smile factor, keep the rpm's above 2k, and the turbo between 20-30 psi.


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## cwh (Jul 8, 2009)

For a huge smile, give Spartan Diesel Technologies a call and order up a dashdaq and some tunes. Do you have emissions testing in MA?


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

cwh said:


> For a huge smile, give Spartan Diesel Technologies a call and order up a dashdaq and some tunes. Do you have emissions testing in MA?


Matt's and his mom are great people. Had my 05 tuned with an SCT tuner from him. Definately a thrill.

Jim


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

isnt 350hp/600+lbs of torque enough to move my trailer, i was doing it with 380hp/400lbs of torque before?

I plan to leave the truck stock, most of the issues i read about are from people doing mods. Also i once owned a 12v CTD that i tinkered with and it was putting out over 700lbs of torque on a dyno...it also went through 3 modified transmissions!
On top of all this i havent heard if Ma is doing testing yet, but i am sure it is coming soon if not.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

1jeep said:


> isnt 350hp/600+lbs of torque enough to move my trailer, i was doing it with 380hp/400lbs of torque before?
> 
> I plan to leave the truck stock, most of the issues i read about are from people doing mods. Also i once owned a 12v CTD that i tinkered with and it was putting out over 700lbs of torque on a dyno...it also went through 3 modified transmissions!
> On top of all this i havent heard if Ma is doing testing yet, but i am sure it is coming soon if not.


It's enough to move my 12k lb trailer, so I'll bet it will move an 8-9k trailer.


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

Nathan said:


> isnt 350hp/600+lbs of torque enough to move my trailer, i was doing it with 380hp/400lbs of torque before?
> 
> I plan to leave the truck stock, most of the issues i read about are from people doing mods. Also i once owned a 12v CTD that i tinkered with and it was putting out over 700lbs of torque on a dyno...it also went through 3 modified transmissions!
> On top of all this i havent heard if Ma is doing testing yet, but i am sure it is coming soon if not.


It's enough to move my 12k lb trailer, so I'll bet it will move an 8-9k trailer.








[/quote]

of course it can move it, but what is enough??


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## cwh (Jul 8, 2009)

Do a little reading on your new F350. The transmissions in these trucks are nearly bullit proof. They do benefit from some trans tuning. Heat is the enemy. Especially while towing. You need gauges. It is a must. I see egts up to 1200+ in regen with an empty truck. 1400 for sustained driving will kill the turbo. I run the 150hp dpf on tune. The turbo spools a lot quicker and all the safeties are intact. Keep an eye on your coolant bottle and temps. These trucks go through radiators. They have a fix that I had done at 4K miles but still had to have the radiator replaced at 12K. Its called the venturi tee fix. Another mod for the truck is shortening the fill and vent tubes in the fuel tank. It'll give you the ability to put another 5 to 7 gallons of fuel in it. Gave me another 60 miles of range. Pretty easy to do but a little awkward. It is slighlty easier to overfill but I normally take it easy when filling my truck.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

cwh said:


> Do a little reading on your new F350. The transmissions in these trucks are nearly bullit proof. They do benefit from some trans tuning. Heat is the enemy. Especially while towing. You need gauges. It is a must. I see egts up to 1200+ in regen with an empty truck. 1400 for sustained driving will kill the turbo. I run the 150hp dpf on tune. The turbo spools a lot quicker and all the safeties are intact. Keep an eye on your coolant bottle and temps. These trucks go through radiators. They have a fix that I had done at 4K miles but still had to have the radiator replaced at 12K. Its called the venturi tee fix. Another mod for the truck is shortening the fill and vent tubes in the fuel tank. It'll give you the ability to put another 5 to 7 gallons of fuel in it. Gave me another 60 miles of range. Pretty easy to do but a little awkward. It is slighlty easier to overfill but I normally take it easy when filling my truck.


I concur, anyone with an aftermarket tune needs to monitor temps so you don't burn anything up. I've never seen a temp problem on my truck, but it is stock.


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