# Furnace Does Nothing



## dthorfnp (Dec 15, 2004)

Just received a call from the DH who is out in Missouri with my brother for the weekend. They didn't arrive at the trailer until about 10 p.m. and when the plugged it in and hit the remote for the furnace, you guesses it, it did nothing. No fan. no heat nothing. The stove top lites so there is propane and it was just used last weekend. It started when the emergency furnace button was pushed, but told him I wasn't sure how often you could use the emergency button. Will it work every time? I did tell them to try to reset the remote.....but the batteries were not changed or taken out and the digital read out came up on the remote, so I am not sure what is going on. Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 
Hope the emrgency heat stays on for them...or he will be soooooooooooo crabby tomorrow. Good thing I am going away myself tomorrow.. Tee Hee

You guys are so great you always have great answers.








Thanks
Dawn

update: as of 11:20, no heat and it was 31 degrees. They packed up and went to a best western to "camp for the night" DH does not do cold at alln


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

I would change the batteries first and try resetting the remote.
that all I can think of at the moment

Don


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

The furnace motor is 12 V, how is the battery? If it was connected and unused for weeks, the propane detector will run it down.

John


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## dthorfnp (Dec 15, 2004)

tdvffjohn said:


> The furnace motor is 12 V, how is the battery? If it was connected and unused for weeks, the propane detector will run it down.
> 
> John
> [snapback]95184[/snapback]​


It was unplugged from shore power for 1 week. So I am sure the battery was down. But does that mean the furnace motor only runs on 12V and won't run when the trailer is plugged into shore power? I think I'm confused.
Dawn


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## 7heaven (Jun 4, 2005)

The furnace runs on shore power when that is available. We have a small ceramic heater from Wal-Mart that we use when it gets cold. That way we are burning the campground electricity that we are already paying for. Sorry I can't help troubleshoot the TT heater problem. It may be too late for this trip, but go ahead and get one of those small ceramic heaters ($12) and leave it in the trailer.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

dthorfnp said:


> tdvffjohn said:
> 
> 
> > The furnace motor is 12 V, how is the battery? If it was connected and unused for weeks, the propane detector will run it down.
> ...


What runs on 12V stays 12 V when on shore power. On shore power the converter will recharge the battery. Nothing changes with any 12V item when you plug in, you just gain AC, electric for fridge and microwave. The lights, heater motor and fridge control is 12 V so it is usefull when there are no hook ups.

John


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## 7heaven (Jun 4, 2005)

Just to clarify, does the converter power just the battery directly or does it send power directly to the 12V appliances? I had been told the converter sends power directly to the appliances in addition to recharging the batteries, maybe I was mis-informed.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

7heaven said:


> Just to clarify, does the converter power just the battery directly or does it send power directly to the 12V appliances? I had been told the converter sends power directly to the appliances in addition to recharging the batteries, maybe I was mis-informed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not misinformed, I would say.


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

tdvffjohn said:


> 7heaven said:
> 
> 
> > Just to clarify, does the converter power just the battery directly or does it send power directly to the 12V appliances?Â I had been told the converter sends power directly to the appliances in addition to recharging the batteries, maybe I was mis-informed.Â Â
> ...


I always thought that the converter charges through the batteries and also sent power directly to appliance .. if you do not have batteries installed or hooked up then everything still works --

If the heater is not working does the A/C work???

But to the heater probelm..

1. Have them check the fuses... even if the propane heater was not getting gas the fan would kick on first.

2. Have them press the emergency heat button on the A/C controller board -- not the remote -- but the actual ceiling unit.


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

I tend to agree with the others.

Change the remote batteries, reset it.

Check the 12 volt battery. If it was unplugged for a week there may not be enough charge left to run the furnace.

Steve


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## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

Change the batteries in the remote, just uncovered mine yesterday and the remote looked good, all functions seemed to show up on remote but it didn't work. Changed batteries and it worked like a charm.


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## dthorfnp (Dec 15, 2004)

Ghosty said:


> tdvffjohn said:
> 
> 
> > 7heaven said:
> ...


With the remote, nothing came on. When the emergency heat button on the ceiling unit was pushed the fan ran, but no heat apparently... So that would mean the fuses were okay...Right? Didn't have them check the A/C, if that works then what?
Thanks for all your help
Dawn


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

If the fan ran, then it has to be propane. Is the tank almost empty? Check for spider web in small tube from the outside of heater. Is it trying to light and not (clicking sound). If lines were empty of propane for a while it might take several attempts to get it to ignite. I believe it gives up after it tries 3 times. Then you have to retry. Did he run a stove burner to help purge lines of air?

John


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

It is always hard to troubleshoot a problem like this without having seen it.

We can forget about the remote for now since the furnace did not start correctly with the emergency button. So lets look at a few problems that would cause this.

Low 12 vdc voltage. It runs the fan but the igniter board does not have enough power to it.

Control board fault.

Gas isolation valve fault.

There could be a couple more but these top the list. Make sure you have at least 11.5 vdc to the furnace when the fan is running. If you do then power everything down and disconnect the control board, then reconnect it and try again. If this fails to resolve the issue even when using the Emergency button then a control board would be my first replaced item.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

dthorfnp...any update on what the problem was?


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## dthorfnp (Dec 15, 2004)

Oregon_Camper said:


> dthorfnp...any update on what the problem was?
> [snapback]96260[/snapback]​


Well, I hope to have a definite answer after this weekend, another trip to missouri is in the works. See the camper is parked semipermanently out there for the year while we do some work and move some equipment. The first and #1 mistake was letting DH and the dear brother try this alone. If things are big and noisy and you need welders or backhoes to fix it they are your men, but if this are the least bit electrical or has too man buttons these are not the boys for you. I usually set up the inside of the trailer myself and get the heat or AC working, DH had never done it. 
To make a long story short, it was dark when they arrived, they plugged in the trailer. Which should have just been left plugged in anyway. and he reached in the compartment in the dark to turn on the propane tanks. Mind you having to look for a flash lite would have required opening a drawer.....and somehow disconnected the propane tank instead. So when no gas can reach anything, nothing works. At least that is his story and he is sticking to it. He did however bring both tanks home to be filled. 
The rest of the story ( as Paul Harvey says) will come this sunday when he makes a return trip with now full tanks of propane and tries it again. I will keep you updated with the second half of the saga. 
thanks for all your help everyone, with a DH who really know nothing about camping I need all the help I can get. He is always amazed at the things I know. and wonders how I know them..... I just let him keep thinking I am really smart
Dawn


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

dthorfnp said:


> He is always amazed at the things I know. and wonders how I know them..... I just let him keep thinking I am really smart
> Dawn
> [snapback]96627[/snapback]​


We'll never tell your secret









All the reading your doing is only helping for the future or others on the board.

Do keep us updated with full propane tanks.

Bill.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Didn't know propane tanks could drain if the hose isn't screwed in. Older tanks would allow this, but I'm sure the new tanks will not allow propane to come out.


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## dthorfnp (Dec 15, 2004)

Oregon_Camper said:


> Didn't know propane tanks could drain if the hose isn't screwed in. Older tanks would allow this, but I'm sure the new tanks will not allow propane to come out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't think they actually drained. The one that had propane left is the one he disconnected and therefore there was no propane available to start the heater. The other tank was mt. So that is why they brought it back to refill


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

I guess this rules out your DH from doing any mods to the Outback.









Regards, Glenn


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## Nickens (Oct 6, 2005)

Similar problem last Fall - the dealer said propane line can get an air bubble or vapor lock, especially if sitting for a long time or if the tanks were just re-filled. They recommended running lighting the stove to help "move" the propane.

With this dealer, I don't know whether to trust them or just bust-out laughing...

Good luck!


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## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

I'll go with the laughter every time


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## Remove_B4_Flight (Apr 2, 2006)

I had this problem before in my old Prowler...Had a tech come out to my camp site to trouble shoot it. He brought a new ignition relay just in case. Turned out that a spider had wedged himself into an oriface that was preventing ventalation of the gas valve. There is a safety interlock that detects gas flow (or lack of it). This interlock disables the ignition system, hense the lack of voltage I discovered by putting a voltmeter to the relay. Once the vent was cleared, the furnace fired right up. He replaced the relay anyway, but before spending a bunch of money, I would have the LPG plumbing cleaned out.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Nickens said:


> Similar problem last Fall - the dealer said propane line can get an air bubble or vapor lock, especially if sitting for a long time or if the tanks were just re-filled. They recommended running lighting the stove to help "move" the propane.
> 
> With this dealer, I don't know whether to trust them or just bust-out laughing...
> 
> ...


Actually Nickens, on this one your dealer is steering you straight. The first thing I do when opening the LP tanks after they have been sitting is to light the burners on the stove, and let them run for about a minute. Sometimes, it takes quite a while to get the first burner to light, and that is because of air that has accumulated in the lines. Once that air has been purged, all the other gas appliences will light quickly and easily.









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Great advise Doug...that is one of first things I do after I get the outside all set up. Funny how even after a week or two of no camping that air can work back into the lines.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

My guess is that the air is there all along, mixed in withthe propane. But as propane is heavier than air, over time it settles out and the air rises to the high points. Namely the appliances.

That's my theory at least, and I'm sticking to it!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Doxie-Doglover (Apr 19, 2006)

Oregon_Camper said:


> Didn't know propane tanks could drain if the hose isn't screwed in. Older tanks would allow this, but I'm sure the new tanks will not allow propane to come out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


and they won't, the new tanks HAVE to have appliance hooked up to them, it's the safety valve. Granted, they could still leaks around the stem....etc, but won't leak thru the actual opening unless A: something hooked up to the them or B: faulty valve. But, someone would be smelling gas if leaking....I hope...
(ps) worked in propane for 13 years
While on the subject of propane: many people assume it's ok to refill the disposable containers with an adaptor that can be bought for that situation.It simply is NOT safe,no matter what.You can't tell when the tank is full.Period.Very unsafe. If anyone wants clear understanding of why we should respect and inspect our tanks, think of this.A few years ago when I was still working, a customer in Idaho had taken a 5 gallon tank indoors, into his basement. Big no no. Long story short, there was an accident, and the house was not firmly on it's foundation after the smoke cleared. Scary huh?


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## Lady Di (Oct 28, 2005)

DH is in the habit of lighting the stove if the propane has been off for any reason.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Doxie-Doglover said:


> A few years ago when I was still working, a customer in Idaho had taken a 5 gallon tank indoors, into his basement. Big no no. Long story short, there was an accident, and the house was not firmly on it's foundation after the smoke cleared.


You mean there was still a house to be on the foundation after the smoke cleared?









I have never heard of trying to refill the little tanks before. I guess that is right in there with refilling ink jet cartridges.... except, you know, FATAL! Yikes. I mean, at less than $3 a bottle new, is it realy worth the effort in the first place?

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Doxie-Doglover (Apr 19, 2006)

PDX_Doug said:


> Nickens said:
> 
> 
> > Similar problem last Fall - the dealer said propane line can get an air bubble or vapor lock, especially if sitting for a long time or if the tanks were just re-filled.Â They recommended running lighting the stove to help "move" the propane.
> ...


it's true! a dealer was honest for a change!


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## Doxie-Doglover (Apr 19, 2006)

PDX_Doug said:


> Doxie-Doglover said:
> 
> 
> > A few years ago when I was still working, a customer in Idaho had taken a 5 gallon tank indoors, into his basement. Big no no. Long story short, there was an accident, and the house was not firmly on it's foundation after the smoke cleared.
> ...


Hi Doug,
there are more horror/stupid stories out there! and it's gut wrenching when I see it and people won't listen. Get this: I have propane range and clothes dryer and a 50 gallon tank outside the house. In Addition, we have a professionally installed free standing propane heater that heats upstairs. It's great, instant heat, pure heaven in cold winter. In the spring, it's disconnected and stored downstairs. This heater is for home use, created just for that, burns clean and does not need vented.If power goes out, I still have heat, just no fan.Anyway, a neighbor who was over this last winter doing some electrical work for us, saw it.This is when is was in the teens and 20's...brrrr! 
The next day I could see a red glow in his living room window from my house. I started to panic, thought his house was on fire. Upon window peeking ( sounds bad, but it was nighttime) I saw he had brought a 10 gallon tank inside with Mr heater on top! had there been an accident, his house would have been history andt he damage to surrounding area, well, let's not think about it. He is the type of person that wouldn't have taken it out if I said something. You know the kind.








The refilling of disposable tanks is with an adaptor made just for that. Yep, you can buy them, but it sure isn't safe. One of the things about the new valves on the regular propane tanks is that they have their their own stop fill device.When tank is 80% full, it closes, won't take anymore.On the older tanks and many older motorhomes, we have to rely on the bleeder valve and when it blows liquid,it is full. There are soooo many gas station attendees and such that have not been properly trained on filling tanks. Time and again, people would bring overfilled tanks to us that were hissing for us to bleed them off.


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