# Steel Building Tie-down Methods



## RVCarolina (Jul 31, 2004)

My buddy just got an American steel span building, 20'W x 26'L x 14'H from the original buyer for almost nothing. It had never been put together, and is basically brand new. Its one of those buildings that looks like a giant steel accordian.
He plans to pour two parallel concrete "curb" foundations, and leave both ends of the building open for his livestock. So, the question is, how do you tie it down? the instructions and blueprints that came with the building show nothing about tie-down, other than one paragraph about bolts embedded in the foundation sticking up 2", and spaced so many inches apart. - Then NO mention OR diagram OR parts provided to hook the building to the foundation bolts.
We are thinking of using 12 mobile home tie-down auger-type anchors with the steel straps (6) across the top of the building. would'nt look too good.
Any ideas or experiance would be appreciated. 
By the way, no info on the manufacturer's website. They make it look easy. Ha!
Thanks, Fred


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## CJ999 (Aug 11, 2005)

My first thought is that the main vertical supports would go down right on the described bolts and a big nut would be screwed on to hold the building in place. I can show you a "rough" picture of what it looks like on a wood frame if it would help at all.


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

RVCarolina said:


> other than one paragraph about bolts embedded in the foundation sticking up 2", and spaced so many inches apart. Thanks, Fred
> [snapback]91516[/snapback]​


That is your answer right there. You get some thread rod (like a bolt but no head just a threaded piece of steel, or you can get long bolts but make sure they thread all the way down to the head) For thread rod I'd suggest at least 5/8's thread but don't know the spacing requirements of your plans. You can buy it in lengths of 3' 6' whatever you need and just cut to length, and bury it in the concrete while it's being pored. 
On the bottom side, the part in the concrete, get the largest fender washers you can with a nut on the bottom and a fender washer in the middle and another nut on top "in" the concrete. So assuming you have a 5" slab being pored you would want approximately 1" of concrete before the nut and washer but let the thread rod hit bottom and exceed the 2" mark above, it's always easer to cut than add more. While the slab is being pored you want to make sure you get the bolts/rods as vertical as possible, your going to be cutting holes in lumber later and trust me if it's not straight now your going to be in for some fun drilling later.

Bill.


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## shake1969 (Sep 21, 2004)

They're right.

Just like the sole plate on a regular wall, bolt that sucker down.

If it's like here, you're gonna need a permit, and that means a code inspector, and that means you build it like they want.

Contact the inspector. They will tell you exactly how to tie it down.

Hope it works out.


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

What they said.....

Tim


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

I just erected a steel building. Mine came with detailed plans and a foundation blueprint indicating the tie down bolt spacing, size, etc.
If you don't have a blueprint, find the base channel parts. It will likely be angle iron 2"x3" or so with holes in it spaced for the bolts.
You can purchase the tie down bolts a number of places, including Home Depot, or go to a place that sells metal buildings. They come in various lenghts fronm 6" on up depending upon the application. They are simply a netal bar bent into an L on one end and threaded on the other. Make sure to get some nice big washers and nuts to fit the threads. 5/8" size ought to be adequate for yuor building, but again check local building codes.

Pour your footings to local code, probably 1 foot x 1 foot along the entire length of the building on each side. Bury the bolts into the wet cement PRECISELY as indicated by the above measurements and check periodocally to insure they haven't tilted. It's good to wrap a little painters tape or Duct tape around the threads to keep them clean for later.

Good Luck, Glenn


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Fred,

You really need to check with your local building department on this. There is no way any of us can make a call as to what is needed in your situation. 5/8" anchor bolts have been mentioned, but I do not know how anyone has been able to determine that without doing a thorough structural analysis. 5/8" at what spacing? how many per leg? what is this based on?

As far as the footing are concerned, that also depends on the loading as well as other issues such as frost line, etc. Again, the building department will tell you what you need. They will also probably tell you to go to a structural engineer, and get stamped plans from him/her to submit. The manufacturer may be able to provide these as well.

Good luck!

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

Foundation anchor bolts are available at many building supply stores. They are a L-shaped steel bar with a threaded end for a nut. You place them in your forms before pouring concrete. They will do the job if enough of them are used.

Bill


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Basically, what Glenn says. I would call the manufacturer and get their input. Your building is probably similar to the one I just put up here.

Mine is a USB building. If the building was shipped to your area (vice shipped to a southern climate then sold to you in a northern climate), then it is probably stressed for your local conditions, i.e., proper snow loading, wind loading, etc. If it was not sold directly to the area where you intend to erect it, you should definitly contact the manufacturer.

As for tie downs, if like mine, you have 3 options. All options require a full-slab pad. The first option is pour the slab with a concrete channel about 4" deep with J bolts embedded for tie downs. Once the building is erected and tied down, you fill in the channel with additional concrete. Second is to buy C channel and lay it on the slab. This is the route I took as I wanted the extra few inches of height. The C channel is attached to the slab using J bolts that were embedded in the concrete about every 2 feet and staggered. After the building is erected, the C channel is filled with concrete. The building is not fully up to spec until the channel is concreted in. Third choice is to buy what they call "industrial channel". Industrial channel is similar to the C channel, but does not need to be concreted.

In any case, I would contact the manufacturer.


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## RVCarolina (Jul 31, 2004)

vdub said:


> Basically, what Glenn says. I would call the manufacturer and get their input. Your building is probably similar to the one I just put up here.
> 
> Mine is a USB building. If the building was shipped to your area (vice shipped to a southern climate then sold to you in a northern climate), then it is probably stressed for your local conditions, i.e., proper snow loading, wind loading, etc. If it was not sold directly to the area where you intend to erect it, you should definitly contact the manufacturer.
> 
> ...


VDUB,
Yes that is the same type building. The rippled or corrugated panels are ALSO the frame, so there are no studs or ribs or sole plate to "tie-off" to. nothing but the bolts that hold each "zig-zag" structural panel to the next one. So please explain to me, what is a "J" bolt, and how does it attach to the building?
Thanks, Fred


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## RVCarolina (Jul 31, 2004)

GlenninTexas said:


> I just erected a steel building. Mine came with detailed plans and a foundation blueprint indicating the tie down bolt spacing, size, etc.
> If you don't have a blueprint, find the base channel parts. It will likely be angle iron 2"x3" or so with holes in it spaced for the bolts.
> You can purchase the tie down bolts a number of places, including Home Depot, or go to a place that sells metal buildings. They come in various lenghts fronm 6" on up depending upon the application. They are simply a netal bar bent into an L on one end and threaded on the other. Make sure to get some nice big washers and nuts to fit the threads. 5/8" size ought to be adequate for yuor building, but again check local building codes.
> 
> ...


Glenn, I just re-read your post, and now I think I see what you mean. One end of the angle iron is bolted to the embedded bolts, and the other end bolted flat against the side of the building. Is this right?
Thanks, Fred


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

RVCarolina said:


> The rippled or corrugated panels are ALSO the frame, so there are no studs or ribs or sole plate to "tie-off" to.










! All I can say is







!

Really? What gives the structure its rigidity?
Are you sure you got all the parts? (I ask that, only slightly tounge in cheek).

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

A J-bolt might actually be better described as an L-bolt. Basically, it is a rod about 10-12" long and bent 90 degrees at about 4-5" point giving you maybe 8" straight. The end of the straight part has about 4" of thread. Believe my J bolts were 11/16", but can't qute recall. When the foundation is poured, before it sets, you embed the J bolts in the concrete. They have to be absolutely PRECISE and in the specific pattern called for in the design. It's not a job for a novice IMHO. Because I had the C channel, I had a precise pattern to go by, but even then, my contractor messed up the pattern because the first 6' of the building was swapped from one side to the other. When I saw the finished product, I knew there was a problem, but couldn't tell exactly what it was until I tried to insert a short scrap of panel and then it was obvious. Even at that, I had to talk to the contractor for a couple hours and two different trips to convince him he messed up. Finally, he conceded and cut off the first 12 bolts on each side and put in redheads (just as strong). Proper placement of the bolts in the concrete is critical on this type building.


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## RVCarolina (Jul 31, 2004)

PDX_Doug said:


> RVCarolina said:
> 
> 
> > The rippled or corrugated panels are ALSO the frame, so there are no studs or ribs or sole plate to "tie-off" to.
> ...


The building is made up of a bunch of heavy steel "v" shaped panels, each about 2' wide and 5' long. You bolt like 9 of these together to form an arch - In this case, its 20' wide, 14' high and 2' deep. you stand the first arch up, brace it, (temporary) then bolt together the next arch, stand it up next to the first one and bolt them tegether. Now the building is 4' deep. You keep adding 2' sections till you run out of room, money or interest.







When finished, it looks like a giant expanded bellows. All the deep vee's and the steel thickness are what makes it strong. They make these big enough for airplanes with no internal columns etc, so the must be strong. also, each panel has a really heavy krinkle texture, I guess this helps with rigidity.
Fred


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

So basically, like an old Army Quonset hut?

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## RVCarolina (Jul 31, 2004)

PDX_Doug said:


> So basically, like an old Army Quonset hut?
> 
> Happy Trails,
> Doug
> [snapback]91938[/snapback]​


Yes, only the side walls come down straight instead of curved. Also, we are trying to keep concrete work to a minimum, as the site is almost a mile from paved road, and a 4 wheel drive truck is the only way to reach it. NO WAY for a concrete truck to get there.
Fred


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

RVCarolina said:


> GlenninTexas said:
> 
> 
> > I just erected a steel building. Mine came with detailed plans and a foundation blueprint indicating the tie down bolt spacing, size, etc.
> ...


Exactly.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Here is a series of pics of when we put up our building. BTW, the expansion angles (small sheet metal angle irons) that came with the kit are critical and must be used when putting the building togeather. Otherwise, the building "grows". If you have any other questions let me know.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

vdub said:


> Here is a series of pics of when we put up our building. BTW, the expansion angles (small sheet metal angle irons) that came with the kit are critical and must be used when putting the building togeather. Otherwise, the building "grows". If you have any other questions let me know.
> [snapback]92573[/snapback]​


Pretty cool pictures, I bet... If only they were a tad bigger!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Doug, click on one, and the thumbnails get bigger.

Tim


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

hatcityhosehauler said:


> Doug, click on one, and the thumbnails get bigger.
> 
> Tim
> [snapback]92603[/snapback]​


Much better!

Very interesting structure!
Mongo like big space!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

> If only they were a tad bigger!


What hat said, but with IE, you have to hover the mouse over the image, wait for the expand button to appear, then click on it.

Putting up the building was an interesting project. It began when the building was delivered in Sep03 during the first rain storm we had had in 2 months. That was bad because the panels got wet and had to be individually seperated so they wouldn't corrode. That fall, we partially put the archs togeather and staged them to weather the winter. Also, in Nov03, I had the slab poured -- it was done by Thanksgiving. I waited until Jun04 to actually erect the building since I wanted good, rainfree, WINDLESS weather. The building was erected in about 7 hours, but there was lots and lots of prep work before hand. My wife, son, and I put the endwall on during the fall of 04, then we went thru another winter. I contracted my brother to build the front endwall. He used his spare time throughout the summer of 05 to complete that. The front vinyl was put on only a couple months ago. One last remaining task is to grout the c-channel. I'll probably do that in a couple weeks. At that point, the building will be almost insect-tight.

If you look at the very first picture, you will see my daughter and her friend using two drift punches to align holes. The drift punches are absolutely necessary. If you send a pm with your address, I'll loan mine to you. I have 6 of them. I welded the t-bar on top of each punch so that the punch could be slipped thru a ring attached to the bolt bags. I'll send those to. That will save you about $50.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

One more tip.... You want to get one of these. I think I had about 5,000 bolts in my building -- you will have a few less. When you are putting the bolts on, make sure the nuts go on very easily. That is, if you have to twist hard because of a burr or corrosion or whatever, then discard that bolt and nut and get a different one. All bolts should only be put on hand-tight until the building is completely erected. Then, you go back and tighten all of them with the air impact wrench. If your nuts are free-wheeling, then the torque and speed of the air wrench is enough so that you don't need anyone on the other side to hold the bolt. The air wrench will suck them down so fast that there is no spinning of the bolt. You do need a lot of air to handle an air wrench, tho.


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## RVCarolina (Jul 31, 2004)

Hey VDUB, Thanks a lot for the pictures and all the info. You've already been way more help than the blueprints and "instructions" that came with the building. Drift punches - Great idea. I have a few that belonged to my great-Uncle. IF I can find them! We have two air compressors that can run the air wrenches. A trip to Harbor Freight for an air wrench or two is in the works (LOVE that place!)
Thanks again,
Fred
P.S. I had the building manufacturer name wrong, it was made by Steel Master.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Vdub...that is one fine storage unit you have there. Hope you paid that crew with a lot of pizza and beer....they deserved it.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Yeap! They were treated pretty well.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

You know, vdub...

That thing looks about big enough for our Fall Rally! We could have the first ever All Indoor Outbackers Rally! What do you think?









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## RVCarolina (Jul 31, 2004)

Say Vdub, what kind of lightning protection do you have in mind for that building? Judging from the pics, its the tallest thing for miles........ All steel too!






















Fred


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

PDX_Doug said:


> You know, vdub...
> 
> That thing looks about big enough for our Fall Rally! We could have the first ever All Indoor Outbackers Rally! What do you think?
> 
> ...


I like the way you think Doug...


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Oregon_Camper said:


> PDX_Doug said:
> 
> 
> > You know, vdub...
> ...


The scary thing is, I actually broached the subject of the Fall Rally.
If PDX_Shannon sees that post, I'm toast!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

PDX_Doug said:


> Oregon_Camper said:
> 
> 
> > PDX_Doug said:
> ...


Yes sir...you said it first, so now you own it. Way to go Doug!!


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Oregon_Camper said:


> PDX_Doug said:
> 
> 
> > Oregon_Camper said:
> ...


Actually Jim,

I think I can dig up a post from a few months ago where you mentioned it. So, by your logic...

Happy Planning,
Doug


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

PDX_Doug said:


> Oregon_Camper said:
> 
> 
> > PDX_Doug said:
> ...


Ok...I'll do it! 
...I might need a bit of your tutelage along the way.


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Just jump in with both feet, and you'll do fine....

Tim


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Oregon_Camper said:


> PDX_Doug said:
> 
> 
> > Oregon_Camper said:
> ...


Jim,

I can't imagine the Fall Rally being in better hands! I will look forward to being an armchair quarterback on this one! Let me know if I can help!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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