# I Am Steaming Now!!!!



## True Islander (Jan 4, 2009)

I just took delivery of a new 2008 Sydney Edition 31RQS yesterday. I drove 400 miles to meet a driver who took it 800 miles so we are not close to the Outdoor Store in Buffalo where I bought the unit(also I am form Canada).

Anyway had a quick look for driver damage on the outside and had a quick peek inside(this is the 3rd trailer I have bought this way and never any problems before) and beside it being dirty inside I didn't notice anything.
Upon a closer inspection when I got it home I noticed in about 4-5 places the Therma-foil is bubbling/wrinkled and is coming off. not just a little but a real mess.

During the process of buying I made it quite clear that because I wasn't picking the trailer up in person from the dealership that I wanted a real thorough inspection done on the trailer bdefore it was shipped. Of course the salesman assured me that he would do it himself.

With that being said I wouldn't say he looked to hard because it only took me about 5 minutes to start finding the issues.

I have been in contact with them and they are now talking to Keystone because the Keystone dealer here isn't going to be very happy doing warranty work on the trailer when it wasn't purchased from them and that is why I was so adement of having a good inspection done on it.

I love the trailer and everything else is good but this has got me really upset and now I am wondering how long it is going to take to get fixed. Anyone have any comments.


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## fredr (Jun 26, 2006)

Some dealerships will honor and do the warranty work even though you did not purchase the trailer from them. Hopefully the Keystone dealership on the island will do this for you since they are the only game in town so to speak. Especially since they may not have any 31rqs left in stock to sale and Keystone does not make that model anymore (or at least not in the lower 48).

By the way, visited PEI last summer and loved it!!! Hope to get back some day. Hope you enjoy your new Outback!


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## forceten (Nov 14, 2008)

I drove 1700 miles to pick mine up a few weeks ago. Hated the drive but was worth it to go over the trailer with the dealer (lakeshore) in person. They fixed on the spot the few details that needed attention.


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## Compulynx (Oct 15, 2008)

Yeah, don't even get me started on that Thermofoil crap. Just cheap adhesive backed shelf paper stuck to particle board. I do not care what the web site says about how space age it is.

Those of us who have had it peel and split know the kind of junk it is. Not only that, but you can not even order replacement sheets from Keystone. You have to order new cabinets! I am not about to let anyone start tearing out my cabinets!

I called them and they went on about how it has to be "bonded". Yeah, right, if it was bonded, it would not bubble and split!

Like someone said here a few days ago. Can't we get anything that is made worth a darn anymore? Stuff is now engineered to be "discarded" after a few years.

C


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## mmblantz (Jul 1, 2007)

I think that overall the thermofoil coming apart is the exeption and not the rule. Mine still looks as good as new after 5 years. ---Mike


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

mmblantz said:


> I think that overall the thermofoil coming apart is the exeption and not the rule. Mine still looks as good as new after 5 years. ---Mike


When you talk about "thermofoil", what exactly are you talking about? Are you referring to the plastic coating on the cabinet doors or sides?

The main issue I've had on cheaping the OB is the cheap door hinges on the cabinet doors. I've had to replace 5 so far with at least that many about to go. They cost $3.50 at Lowes or Menards and are 100% better than what came with the OB.

We were at a dealership in SE Missouri last year and looked first at a low end 5er ($30,000 range) then one costing $60,000 and then one costing $100,000. There was a big difference between quality of material and fit and finish. But I'm hard pressed to think that one of them costing 3X more was 3X better. We found a high end style for a more reasonable $54,000. I guess if Keystone was to up the quality of all of the little things that bugs us, OB's would cost the $54,000 and then not be an OB.

Good luck getting yours fixed.


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

> Upon a closer inspection when I got it home I noticed in about 4-5 places the Therma-foil is bubbling/wrinkled and is coming off. not just a little but a real mess.





> Yeah, don't even get me started on that Thermofoil crap. Just cheap adhesive backed shelf paper stuck to particle board. I do not care what the web site says about how space age it is.


Are you talking about the doors or the cabinet frames peeling? The film on the doors is completely different than what's on the cabinet frames. You're pretty much right about the thin film on the frames, it looks to be a very thin adhesive backed vinyl film. I've got a few spots in out trailer that are bubbling some too.

What's on the doors is a different product, it's a thicker pvc film applied using heat and pressure, it's much more durable. I own a custom cabinet shop and have installed thermofoil doors on some of our jobs over the years. Once in a while I've seen the film come loose on the edge of a door but have never seen it split or bubble.

Hopefully keystone will set you up with someone to do the repairs without any hassle.

Mike


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

They should be able to send you doors if it is the Thermo-Foil doors. If its the cabinet framing............that can probably be replaced as well since they pocket screw everything.

The coating on the Cabinet Frame and open ends is a "Melamine" coating. This is the same color/saturated paper overlay that is the color layer in "plastic Laminate", what makes the difference is the Backer -partcleboard or MDF on the face frame in the case of Plastic Laminate....it is on a Phenolic backer and also has a top/more wear resistant coating (top coat).

The Doors are RTF - Rigid Themofoil; and they are a PVC material That Is Heated almost Shrink Wrapped to MDF or Particle Board with a Melamine Back side of the door.

They generally only start separating at the Back edge. It is possible to have a bulge where moisture or air got trapped........but generally it is a contaminate particle.

Don't know if that helps or not.....but no matter what it is, it is fixable.

Clarke


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## jetjane (Feb 8, 2007)

True Islander, you are not alone with the cabinet problems. I assume you are talking about frames/stiles and not the doors. We had a 2007 Outback that was one of the last built before Keystone switched over to 2008's. My frames were bubbling and peeling as well.... in numerous spots. It looked horrible. You will probably wish you had a dealer to help you on this. Our dealer went to bat for us and it took over 4 months to reach an agreement with Keystone. In the end, Keystone made us an offer we couldn't refuse (or disclose







) and we ended up with a 2009 model while our dealer bought our old one from Keystone, fixed it up a bit, and sold it as used inventory. We could have sent our camper back to the factory to have all the cabinets replaced if we wanted but this was a better option for us.

Our 2009 model's cabinet frames look a lot better. However, it looks like Keystone had a few scraps of leftover material laying around and decided not to waste it.







We a few spots on our bathroom vanity and medicine cabinet that will have to be replaced. Some people have posted that their dealer merely glued the white vinyl stuff down again but on mine, it appeared to have shrunk first, then peeled and so the wood underneath was exposed and still would be if it wasn't replaced.

After saying all of this, if it is merely your doors that are peeling, that would be wayyyyy easier to fix and like someone said already in this thread, Keystone can/should just send you new replacement doors.

Good luck!


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## True Islander (Jan 4, 2009)

I wish it was just the doors but it is in 4-5 places on the frame of the cabinets. At least now I understand that it is just the doors that have the Thermofoil and the rest is just basically melamine.

I have given the dealer the pictures and a couple of days to work on it so now I will be putting the pressure him tomorrow as I don't want the to drag on into the summer.

I will post how I am getting along for those of you that might have similar problems.


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## Compulynx (Oct 15, 2008)

I did not know the doors was the only thing thermofoil. Then I have to retract what I said. All my doors are fine, just the cabinets. Although, now it peeves me even more that Keystone can or will not provide new material to fix the coverings, but instead want to sell me new cabinets on a 2 year old Outback.

So, the question is, where can we get the covering aftermarket in rolls?

C


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## ED_RN (Jun 25, 2006)

Every time I go in mine I find a new place that is bubbling. Worst area seems to be around the frig. Dealer fixed it once but it,s happening in many spots now. Eventually will have to peel it off and paint I guess.


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## Compulynx (Oct 15, 2008)

Lmbevard said:


> I guess if Keystone was to up the quality of all of the little things that bugs us, OB's would cost the $54,000 and then not be an OB.


Aww, come on now. Solid, hand rubbed cherry cabinets with brass hardware could not cost that much more than particle board with stick-on shelf paper....









C


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## Tom W. (Jun 6, 2007)

True Islander said:


> I just took delivery of a new 2008 Sydney Edition 31RQS yesterday. I drove 400 miles to meet a driver who took it 800 miles so we are not close to the Outdoor Store in Buffalo where I bought the unit(also I am form Canada).
> 
> Anyway had a quick look for driver damage on the outside and had a quick peek inside(this is the 3rd trailer I have bought this way and never any problems before) and beside it being dirty inside I didn't notice anything.
> Upon a closer inspection when I got it home I noticed in about 4-5 places the Therma-foil is bubbling/wrinkled and is coming off. not just a little but a real mess.
> ...


I had the same problem but it was warranty work that the dealership fixed and have not had any problems since. Good luck with getting a local to do the work, I had to bring my to the dealership I purchased it from in Denver and I live in Colorado Springs, about 80 miles that does not compare to your distance! Regardless of which dealership does the work try to identify as many other warranty items you can before you drop it off so they can address those also...just saves you the hassle later.


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## jetjane (Feb 8, 2007)

Tom W. said:


> Regardless of which dealership does the work try to identify as many other warranty items you can before you drop it off so they can address those also...just saves you the hassle later.


Good advice. I'd also suggest, if you can, to wait to get all the warranty work done in the winter when camping season is over. I'd definitely get the ball rolling now though about what and where exactly the warranty work will be done.


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