# Dual Ac Conversion



## WWH (May 7, 2010)

Hello All:

My wife and I just purchased a 2007 32FRLDS 5th wheel and used it for the first time this past weekend and are now faced with the low performing A/C issues I have now read about on this forum.

We REALLY like the trailer and got it for a good price but it is not even hot in Texas yet and the A/C is not keeping up with the heat. It was only able to get down to 63 degrees at the vents. Per several posts on this forum I checked and found the return air duct was not sealed very well and I will check the outlet ducts this weekend and seal them all up. Hopefully it will help.

Unless this makes a VERY dramatic difference I see the need for two A/C units VERY SOON.

With this in mind has anyone converted from a 30 amp service to 50 amps? I read on this forum where some have just ran a seperate plug for the second A/C unit but I would prefer to convert it to 50 amp and make it look like it came that way.

I am now an Automotive Consultant but was a tech for 12 years and a Service Manager for 24 years so I have a lot of tools and a the basic skills to do the conversion myself. However, any insight anyone may have would be GREATLY appreciated!

We love the trailer but as others have pointed out the Engineer that designed the duct system and the installers at the plant need to be taken to the woodshed for counseling for the poor design and quality of installation.

Again any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## swanny (Oct 31, 2007)

I had the same unit as you. It is a lot of area to cool down. One of the things you can do is cover the windows on the sunny side, use car windshield sun blockers. The heat that radiates through the glass is a killer. seal all openings where the cool air can escape. Also I just installed a pull down sun screen on the picture window. It works great, blocks the sun from entering through the window. When it's down you can see through it from the inside. It's a very simple install. Also insulate the vent hole in the ceiling.

kevin


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## outback loft (Sep 22, 2008)

WWH said:


> Hello All:
> 
> My wife and I just purchased a 2007 32FRLDS 5th wheel and used it for the first time this past weekend and are now faced with the low performing A/C issues I have now read about on this forum.
> 
> ...


Well I cannot comment on the a/c temp out of the ducts, but I believe what you are getting out of the ducts is about right. In order to convert your electrical service to 50 amp, you need to change the power wire going into the breaker panel from the 10-2 wire that is feeding it now, to an 8-3 wire. 10 gauge wire is good for the 30 amp service which is 110 volts and has 3 conductors [email protected] 110 volts, 1 neutral, and one ground. The 8 gauge wire is for the 50 amp service, which is 220 volt and has 4 conductors. [email protected] volts, 1 neutral, and one ground. After you change the wire you need to upgrade your breaker panel to a 50 amp panel, and also change your power cable(attached or detachable) to a 50 amp cord as well. That may have been the easy part, the harder part may be snaking wire from your breaker panel to the front of the trailer and into the ceiling for the second a/c unit.

I will end at that for now, I am sure others will chime in as well.


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

outback loft said:


> Hello All:
> 
> My wife and I just purchased a 2007 32FRLDS 5th wheel and used it for the first time this past weekend and are now faced with the low performing A/C issues I have now read about on this forum.
> 
> ...


Well I cannot comment on the a/c temp out of the ducts, but I believe what you are getting out of the ducts is about right. In order to convert your electrical service to 50 amp, you need to change the power wire going into the breaker panel from the 10-2 wire that is feeding it now, to an 8-3 wire. 10 gauge wire is good for the 30 amp service which is 110 volts and has 3 conductors [email protected] 110 volts, 1 neutral, and one ground. The 8 gauge wire is for the 50 amp service, which is 220 volt and has 4 conductors. [email protected] volts, 1 neutral, and one ground. After you change the wire you need to upgrade your breaker panel to a 50 amp panel, and also change your power cable(attached or detachable) to a 50 amp cord as well. That may have been the easy part, the harder part may be snaking wire from your breaker panel to the front of the trailer and into the ceiling for the second a/c unit.

I will end at that for now, I am sure others will chime in as well.
[/quote]

Welcome to the Outbackers WWH!!

That sounds like a lot of work!! I know in fivers that we've seen a RV shows (and maybe someone here has done it) but can you install a ceiling fan? Do you have the clearance. This might help with moving some of the air around.


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

WWH,

Sorry I can't help you with your A/C question, but I can agree that the Texas summers do get mighty warm sometimes.

I wanted to welcome another one from the Lone Star State and say I'm glad y'all decided to join our friendly bunch.

Hope to meet up with you sometime.

Mark


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

outback loft said:


> .... In order to convert your electrical service to 50 amp, you need to change the power wire going into the breaker panel from the 10-2 wire that is feeding it now, to an 8-3 wire. 10 gauge wire is good for the 30 amp service which is 110 volts and has 3 conductors [email protected] 110 volts, 1 neutral, and one ground. The 8 gauge wire is for the 50 amp service, which is 220 volt and has 4 conductors. [email protected] volts, 1 neutral, and one ground. After you change the wire you need to upgrade your breaker panel to a 50 amp panel, and also change your power cable(attached or detachable) to a 50 amp cord as well. That may have been the easy part, the harder part may be snaking wire from your breaker panel to the front of the trailer and into the ceiling for the second a/c unit.
> 
> I will end at that for now, I am sure others will chime in as well.


X2 on this. You need to repace all wiring from the Breaker to the outside plug. Then you'll need to replace the breaker panel. After that, run a new feed and you should be ready to go.


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## rock hill (Apr 17, 2009)

Wow, that sounds like a lot of work, it's making me tired. Every think about a window unit?








That is what we did in our old house, the master bedroom never got that cool from the central air, so we put a small unit
in a window.

Ok, enough sarcasm. The ceiling fan idea is great, and maybe a couple of smaller clip on fans you can put unobtrusivley through out the rig, just an idea. What btu is the ac unit putting out?


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## sunnybrook29 (Oct 7, 2009)

Sounds like you could simply run a separate 110 volt wire from the air to a location that would reach the pole outside. Thats assuming that there is a separate outlet on the pole. You would not have to trade out your breaker box or all the other wires. Be easier and cheaper?


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## Scottps (Jan 21, 2010)

How about a portable A/C unit?


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## Tangooutback (Apr 16, 2010)

My experience with portable a/c unit was not great. This is the type where a 3" tube is connected from the a/c to the outside for thermal exchange. I used it in a conversion van and under Texas August sun without a shade it could not keep the interior cool. This unit was rated 7,000 BTU and it was on sale at Sam's at the time for $800. I returned it after one trip.


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

outback loft said:


> Well I cannot comment on the a/c temp out of the ducts, but I believe what you are getting out of the ducts is about right. In order to convert your electrical service to 50 amp, you need to change the power wire going into the breaker panel from the 10-2 wire that is feeding it now, to an 8-3 wire. 10 gauge wire is good for the 30 amp service which is 110 volts and has 3 conductors [email protected] 110 volts, 1 neutral, and one ground. The 8 gauge wire is for the 50 amp service, which is 220 volt and has 4 conductors. [email protected] volts, 1 neutral, and one ground. After you change the wire you need to upgrade your breaker panel to a 50 amp panel, and also change your power cable(attached or detachable) to a 50 amp cord as well. That may have been the easy part, the harder part may be snaking wire from your breaker panel to the front of the trailer and into the ceiling for the second a/c unit.
> 
> I will end at that for now, I am sure others will chime in as well.


As far as wiring go, reattach the existing wires so that they are balanced between the two legs; an AC unit on each leg, hot water heater on one and microwave on the other, etc. That way you have full protection and won't be over loading one leg and popping the breaker. I'm not sure about the size of the 50 amp breaker cabinet compared to the 30 amp. It might not fit where the original box is, that would be my main concern. As far as replacing the incoming wire, there is a system out that you can buy with a detachable line and shouldn't be too hard to hook up. I also don't think it would be too hard to pull wire from the box to the new AC unit. Good luck with the project. I know about the undersized AC unit. Last year had a week at camp that hit 100 most of the days. Our AC unit kept kicking out on us, so I had to set there and keep resetting it, and even then it had a hard time keeping up.


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## WWH (May 7, 2010)

Thank you all for your suggestions!

From my research on this forum I pulled the ceiling unit down and did a major reseal job on the plenum and I am now getting 20 degree drop in temp from the return air to the vents. Two dealers have told me an 18 degree drop is what I can expect so it is now putting out the best it can. Which is a major improvement! But in the real Texas heat, which is a few months away, it will still be an oven inside.

I purchased another 15k Air V Freeblow yesterday for the bedroom and will start the installation tomorrow. For now I will run a seperate 20 amp cord to it. I have run several options past my stepson who is an electrical engineer. I must have scared him because he is now coming to visit and informed me that WE would make the complete conversion together.

I have an appointment next week to tint the windows.

Hopefully two 15 k a/c units and tinted windows will cool it down!

We really love the trailer and look forward to camping in it.

Thanks again for your assistance!


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

That sounds like a great idea to have help! Hmmm, most of the electrical engineers I know work with microchips and such. Explain to your son that this is 120V A/C (Well, really essentially 240V with a 50A system). I'm sure he knows what he is doing, but as a parent it is your responsibility to give him a hard time!









You might want to order the 50A box in advance so you'll be ready. I do beleive you need one of these: WFCO 50A Distribution Center


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## WWH (May 7, 2010)

Nathan said:


> That sounds like a great idea to have help! Hmmm, most of the electrical engineers I know work with microchips and such. Explain to your son that this is 120V A/C (Well, really essentially 240V with a 50A system). I'm sure he knows what he is doing, but as a parent it is your responsibility to give him a hard time!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## WWH (May 7, 2010)

Thanks for the link for the 50 amp panel!

Their price is less than half the price a dealer quoted me earlier this week as part of a quote to install the 50 amp service and a 13.5 k ac unit. All for only $2,100.

From what I can tell so far I will do it with a 15k unit for less than a grand.

Thanks again for your assistance.


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## WWH (May 7, 2010)

outback loft said:


> Hello All:
> 
> My wife and I just purchased a 2007 32FRLDS 5th wheel and used it for the first time this past weekend and are now faced with the low performing A/C issues I have now read about on this forum.
> 
> ...


Well I cannot comment on the a/c temp out of the ducts, but I believe what you are getting out of the ducts is about right. In order to convert your electrical service to 50 amp, you need to change the power wire going into the breaker panel from the 10-2 wire that is feeding it now, to an 8-3 wire. 10 gauge wire is good for the 30 amp service which is 110 volts and has 3 conductors [email protected] 110 volts, 1 neutral, and one ground. The 8 gauge wire is for the 50 amp service, which is 220 volt and has 4 conductors. [email protected] volts, 1 neutral, and one ground. After you change the wire you need to upgrade your breaker panel to a 50 amp panel, and also change your power cable(attached or detachable) to a 50 amp cord as well. That may have been the easy part, the harder part may be snaking wire from your breaker panel to the front of the trailer and into the ceiling for the second a/c unit.

I will end at that for now, I am sure others will chime in as well.
[/quote]


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## WWH (May 7, 2010)

Thanks for the information!

I have found an fairly easy way to get the new wiring from the panel to the ac unit. I dread running the wire from the plug to the panel.


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## Banjo (Aug 1, 2005)

WWH said:


> Hello All:
> 
> My wife and I just purchased a 2007 32FRLDS 5th wheel and used it for the first time this past weekend and are now faced with the low performing A/C issues I have now read about on this forum.
> 
> ...


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## WWH (May 7, 2010)

UPDATE

I installed a new Carrier Air V Freeblow this weekend and WOW what a difference! I now fully understand how bad the ductwork is. The new unit by itself cooled the entire trailer from 86 degrees outside temp to 68.

I am now considering moving the original ducted unit to a vent closer to the rear of the trailer and installing it with a Freeblow ceiling unit.

I also removed the trim for the skylight and the other two vents so I could reduce the heat entry into the trailer by using a spray foam to seal the roof space. It may have been a feel good activity but I feel better about it anyway.

I believe my cooling issues have been solved.

Thank you all for your input and suggestions.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Glad to hear you are getting a handle on it!


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## BamaOutbackers (Jun 12, 2010)

So how did the 50 A conversion go? Did you do it or just run an extension cored for the second AC?


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## WWH (May 7, 2010)

BamaOutbackers said:


> So how did the 50 A conversion go? Did you do it or just run an extension cored for the second AC?


Currently I am using an extension cord for the second ac unit but I have had a 50 amp service installed to the trailer. I have a progressive industries surge protector and a 50 amp power distribution panel on order. The should be here this week and next weekend I will complete the conversion with the help on my stepson.

I am still undecided on adding a Hughes Autoformer during the conversion. But I can always add it later.

I have been taking pictures of each conversion step and will post them after I complete the conversion if anyone is interested.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

WWH said:


> Currently I am using an extension cord for the second ac unit but I have had a 50 amp service installed to the trailer. I have a progressive industries surge protector and a 50 amp power distribution panel on order. The should be here this week and next weekend I will complete the conversion with the help on my stepson.
> 
> I am still undecided on adding a Hughes Autoformer during the conversion. But I can always add it later.
> 
> I have been taking pictures of each conversion step and will post them after I complete the conversion if anyone is interested.


Pictures would be great!

Good luck with the remainder of the install!


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## BamaOutbackers (Jun 12, 2010)

I believe I will be adding a second ac and a washer dryer setup.. So I'll be converting to 50A as well.


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Sounds like you should have just bought a new one....

The 2010 and up fifth wheels come with 50 amp service and are prewired and braced for the 2nd A/C.

Kidding aside, sounds like you got your problem solved!!


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## WWH (May 7, 2010)

huntr70 said:


> Sounds like you should have just bought a new one....
> 
> The 2010 and up fifth wheels come with 50 amp service and are prewired and braced for the 2nd A/C.
> 
> Kidding aside, sounds like you got your problem solved!!


I thought about buying a new one but then I realized that there are only two kinds of RV's. Ones that have not needed repair or adjustments and those that have had repairs and adjustments. The ones that have not needed repair or adjustments yet are the ones on the dealer lot waiting for the Pre Delivery Inspection.

I prefer to work on my own RV and if I buy a used one I can afford to upgrade it. I just did not expect to need this upgrade $$$

I was thinking much smaller!


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