# Upper Bunk Removal



## LateralG (Feb 11, 2006)

Upper bunk in 21RS or similarly-equipped Outback:

I need to make it removeable & re-installable.

Why: The room would be a barely adequate 'office' if the upper bunk could be hinged or removed.

I'm confident I can design the means for hinging or adequate supports for a removeable bunk. The major problem is removal without causing irrepairable, or costly, damage.

Let the brain storming begin. No fair criticizing another's ideas ... building on them is cool.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Ok, you said "No fair criticizing another's ideas", so here goes

If you're not 100% locked into the 21RS, why don't you consider the 23KRS and then make an office area in the "garage"? You cound put a small desk/chair in there and make real good use for the floorplan. Toss down some carpet...hang a few pictues and it would become your portable office.


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

Oregon_Camper said:


> Ok, you said "No fair criticizing another's ideas", so here goes
> 
> If you're not 100% locked into the 21RS, why don't you consider the 23KRS and then make an office area in the "garage"? You cound put a small desk/chair in there and make real good use for the floorplan. Toss down some carpet...hang a few pictues and it would become your portable office.
> 
> ...


Jim that would be a fantastic Idea








Plenty of room to work and add a big screen to the fold down door
And its like a screen room
That's if he is not locked into the 21

Don


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

I like the idea of the roo.

Question on the 21rs though, are the bunks structural and necessary









Bill.


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## LateralG (Feb 11, 2006)

2500Ram said:


> I like the idea of the roo.
> 
> Question on the 21rs though, are the bunks structural and necessary
> 
> ...


I like the roo as well, but TV not up to it.

For purpose of this program, I'm assuming structure isn't a problem.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

LateralG said:


> 2500Ram said:
> 
> 
> > I like the idea of the roo.
> ...


Which engine do you have?

The 210-hp 4.0-liter V6; 292-hp 4.6-liter V8?

I see the rating for your Mountaineer is 6980lbs and the difference between the two two trailers is only 450lbs. So, you'd have ~2,000lbs to spare minus all the upgrades and normal trailer gear. Depending on where you go in Arizona, you'd prob be ok with the Roo.

Just trying to help...if this isn't something you're interested in then this is a moot point.


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## LateralG (Feb 11, 2006)

Oregon_Camper said:


> LateralG said:
> 
> 
> > 2500Ram said:
> ...


Jim,
I sincerely appreciate your thoughts. For a number of reasons I'm committed to the 21RS, so I need to focus on modifying it.


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## mom30075 (Jun 6, 2005)

Can't give you any structural advice, however I'd start by looking at new cmapers with the fold down bunk. I saw a great Pilgrim 5th wheel with one.


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Most likely the existing bunk supports will have to be disassembled and then rebuilt so the bunk can be removeable or flip down. I think the bunk itself is an aluminum frame with a plywood skin, at least the bottom one is so I'd guess the top one is the same. The studs in the front wall run horizontally, if you look carefully on the panelling you may see where the nail holes have been filled. If there's one near where the bunk goes you could put some kind of support there, one on the front bath wall and one on the wardrobe wall.

Removeable may be easier as to get it to flip down would entail some kind of removeable support on the bath wall and the wardrobe wall. I've had the bottom bunk out of ours, since the frame is made of aluminum with a plywood skin it's pretty light so getting it in and out should not be too much trouble.

Mike


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## LateralG (Feb 11, 2006)

camping479 said:


> Most likely the existing bunk supports will have to be disassembled and then rebuilt so the bunk can be removeable or flip down. I think the bunk itself is an aluminum frame with a plywood skin, at least the bottom one is so I'd guess the top one is the same. The studs in the front wall run horizontally, if you look carefully on the panelling you may see where the nail holes have been filled. If there's one near where the bunk goes you could put some kind of support there, one on the front bath wall and one on the wardrobe wall.
> 
> Removeable may be easier as to get it to flip down would entail some kind of removeable support on the bath wall and the wardrobe wall. I've had the bottom bunk out of ours, since the frame is made of aluminum with a plywood skin it's pretty light so getting it in and out should not be too much trouble.
> 
> ...


Now we're moving. A bit more to go.

Thanks, Mike.


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## LateralG (Feb 11, 2006)

Seems like owners of the 23 RS and 25RSS would also enjoy the added flexibility of this mod.

Once we determine how to get the upper bunk out, I'll design the new attachments.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

LateralG said:


> For purpose of this program, I'm assuming structure isn't a problem.


Gary,

I think this is a dangerous assumption. Unless this is all just in the hypothetical!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

The ideas are great. I would run the structural part by an expert. I do not think the bunks would come into play.

If you are building TT from a factory point fof view ... make them all boxes and tailor the inside. This would be most cost effective. Therefore, I do not believe the bunks are apart of the structure but would add stiffeness.

Thor


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

With the bathroom wall there and the front wall sloped back at the top you will not have much chance of having it in place and hinged. So it looks like removal would be best.

Because it is up against the wardrobe on the curb side I do not see how it gives and structural support side to side.

Remove of the bunks is very straight forward.

Remove mattress
Remove face trim
Remove top deck of bunk (mine just lays in there).
Disconnect any electrical to lower buck light.
Remove screws that go into the walls around the perimeter, this is a 2 person job.
Tip the back side down and slide the bunk out the bike door.


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## McBeth (Feb 19, 2005)

Once the bunk is removed instead of making it re-installable you could replace it with a pipe berth or hammock.

From my sailing days some of the boats I raced on had pipe berths that would rollup and be stored against the hull when not in use. I've also seen a hammock made from an alumium frame that is lifted out of the way by a simple pulley system.

You could leave the perimeter support and hang the pipe berth or hammock from the structure that is already there.

Just my .02

Keith


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## LateralG (Feb 11, 2006)

Another thought. Cut the bunk in half, resulting in two 37" x 34" parts. Connect them with hinge. Swing starboard piece up & onto portside side. Fold mattress & place on top. (uh-oh: is there clearance with ceiling that allows this?)

May not even need the hinge. Just slide starboard piece onto stationary port piece.


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## 7heaven (Jun 4, 2005)

I was thinking the same thing, only make it a 75/25 split. The fixed portion would be closer to the slanted end of the TT.


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## LateralG (Feb 11, 2006)

7heaven said:


> I was thinking the same thing, only make it a 75/25 split. The fixed portion would be closer to the slanted end of the TT.
> [snapback]92911[/snapback]​


OHO! So you're cutting along the length, eh? Good idea.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

If you leave some of the top bunk intact, you might be able to use it as a shelf for a printer, the computer, etc...


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## LateralG (Feb 11, 2006)

We're on a roll. Let's keep it going.

No idea is too crazy.

If we "hinge" two pieces together, we can join & separate them by removing the hinge pins ... like hanging a door.


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## mom30075 (Jun 6, 2005)

did you ever do this Mod?

I would love to figure out a way to have the top bunks be hinged against the wall and be able to push them up during the day, this would allow someone to sit on the bottom bunk, open a small table and play games or watch TV.


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## prevish gang (Mar 19, 2006)

LateralG said:


> Upper bunk in 21RS or similarly-equipped Outback:
> 
> I need to make it removeable & re-installable.
> 
> ...


From a woman's viewpoint: I would remove the bunk completely no matter what. When one of my kids moves out, the upper bunk is history. The lower one is probably out permanently too. I will build a wall to continue the bathroom wall for storage of larger items to be accessed through the bike door. Then the entire bunk area will become closet space. By the time I get rid of all the kids I won' t be concerned with resale value anyway. You can never get enough closet space and this should not add any additional weight to speak of.

As for the structural questions; I assume travel trailers are built in the same manner as mobile homes. They are built as a structural box first, floor goes in and then walls cabinets etc are installed. This being said, the bunk does not reinforce the structure. Check the official Keystone Outback site. I think I saw something in the online brochure that will tell you about construction. If not, call the company or local sales center service dept.
Darlene


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

prevish gang said:


> From a woman's viewpoint: I would remove the bunk completely no matter what. When one of my kids moves out, the upper bunk is history. The lower one is probably out permanently too. I will build a wall to continue the bathroom wall for storage of larger items to be accessed through the bike door. Then the entire bunk area will become closet space. By the time I get rid of all the kids I won' t be concerned with resale value anyway. You can never get enough closet space and this should not add any additional weight to speak of.
> 
> Darlene
> [snapback]104943[/snapback]​


Nice Idea Darlene









Don


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

Darlene

That will be one major mod.









Thor


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## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

I'd be concerned about taking anything out of the front. I don't recall ever seeing one that doesn't have cabinets are beds or something against that front wall that may be providing support. Just a thought.


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## LateralG (Feb 11, 2006)

nascarcamper said:


> I'd be concerned about taking anything out of the front. I don't recall ever seeing one that doesn't have cabinets are beds or something against that front wall that may be providing support. Just a thought.
> [snapback]105026[/snapback]​


Isn't the Kargaroo pretty much devoid of anything structural up front?


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

LateralG said:


> Isn't the Kargaroo pretty much devoid of anything structural up front?


Not necessarily an apples to apples comparison. The structural design of the two could be vastly different.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

The framework of the Outback is aluminum tubing. I seriously doubt anything inside is doing anything more than supporting itself. I have seen so many old (wood frame) campers gutted and used as lunch trucks with new stoves and counters, etc. Many of them pulled back and forth every day from some where.

Instead of removing the entire top bed, I would consider cutting and removing (if you choose to do it) the bed shelf even with the front of the wardrobe. This way you keep a shelf and do not have to mess with the side of wardrobe.

John


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## LateralG (Feb 11, 2006)

tdvffjohn said:


> The framework of the Outback is aluminum tubing. I seriously doubt anything inside is doing anything more than supporting itself. I have seen so many old (wood frame) campers gutted and used as lunch trucks with new stoves and counters, etc. Many of them pulled back and forth every day from some where.
> 
> Instead of removing the entire top bed, I would consider cutting and removing (if you choose to do it) the bed shelf even with the front of the wardrobe. This way you keep a shelf and do not have to mess with the side of wardrobe.
> 
> ...


A similar (or maybe the same) thought. Cut the upper bunk across its width, on a line with the bathroom wall. Then "remove" the curb side half. This leaves the port side half as a storage area, and the curb side area as an extra place to sit.

This could be done in a way that allows quick re-insertion of the "removed" half. That half could be left at home, or placed on top of the port side half.


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## outbackgeorgia (Jan 28, 2004)

LatralG,

Great idea. As a 21RS owner for three years and with a growing 13 year old, he will sleep anywhere now, especially on the sofa with the game connected to the TV set!
The private bunk does not have hte allure it had several years ago.
What a good idea for more space, with a shelf.
I had long ago removed the lower bunk, and moved the bikes to the back of the Outback.

I will look into the structural issue, but do not think the bunk is any kind of load bearing part of the structure

Great ideas.
Outbackgeorgia


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