# Do You Feel This Is Fair For Our Rv Dealers?



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

MURRYSVILLE, Penn. -- Pennsylvania RV dealer Keith Conard, owner of Cooper's RV Center, announced today he has filed suit against Keystone RV Company after the manufacturer threatened to cancel his dealer agreement regarding violations of the company's Internet marketing policy.

Conard said the policy, created in May, puts RV dealers carrying the Keystone product line at a competitive disadvantage. The policy prohibits dealers from advertising any current model year RV at any price below the manufacturer's minimum advertised price. Conard and his attorney consider that policy to possibly be a violation of federal restraint of trade laws.

"The company is threatening RV dealerships with termination if they, out of necessity, cannot adhere to the one-price-throughout-the-country policy," said Conard. "Dealers can only stay in business if they are allowed to set and advertise prices that reflect market conditions in their areas."

"Keystone's retroactive and unilaterally enacted Internet policy violates the Pennsylvania State Board of Motor Vehicle Manufacturers, Dealers, and Salesmen prohibitions against a manufacturer's attempt to terminate a dealership and other unlawful acts involving threats of termination, unless agreeing to prejudicial conditions, pursuant to the Board of Vehicles Act," said Chris DeVito, an attorney with the law firm of Morganstern, MacAdams and DeVito. DeVito is representing Conard in the case.

"Under Pennsylvania law, Keystone's proposed advertising policy would work be unfair, without due regard for the equities of Coopers' RV, and without just cause, upon the Cooper's RV in their business operations as a Keystone Passport dealer," he added.

Keystone's policy has meant that Keystone dealers may have lost sales this summer by forcing dealers to advertise RVs at higher prices in a stagnant economy, Conard explained. "Other companies, like Forest River, allow their dealers to set their own prices when advertising units. So, naturally, they can advertise prices considerably lower than the prices I am allowed to advertise for RVs of similar sizes and features.

"The policy is so ridiculous that an RV dealer who accepts a current model year trade in during the current model year can't advertise it online the used RV for anything other than the manufacturer's minimum advertised price," he added. "With the Internet being our No. 1 source for driving traffic to a dealer's lot, this is a bad policy."

Conard said it is bad policy for an RV manufacturer to dictate to RV dealers that they must mark up units at a specific percentage over invoice -- and insist that is the only price at which the RVs may be advertised. Doing so literally gives business to other manufacturers and the dealers they represent who can engage in aggressive pricing, he said.

"I would say 75 percent of RV dealers don't understand the ramifications of this policy," said Conard. "It is restraint of trade for a manufacturer to tell dealers how they can advertise and at what prices -- and to apply that policy on a one-size-fits-all basis. It's almost like price fixing because it's impossible to have a national price for an RV since every market is different. I feel badly for RV dealers who want to move their products, but can't do so because of Keystone's advertising policy."

For example, Conard said he can buy a 21-foot trailer for a wholesale price of $13,600. Even if he thinks consumers in his market can only afford a trailer at $16,995, he must continue to advertise it at $18,600. "I think a $5,000 profit on a 21-foot travel trailer is ridiculous, but Keystone is requiring us to advertise one price throughout the country to create the impression among consumers that that price is the set price of the RV," he explained. "I fear that Keystone dealers aren't even getting people coming onto their lots because consumers have already determined they can't afford $18,600 for an RV when the dealer across town sells a 21-foot trailer with similar features for $16,000 or even a lot less."

Keystone sent a memo to RV dealers May 6 outlining the new advertising policy. Signed simply "The Keystone Sales Team," the memo stated:

"Effective immediately, no Keystone RV Company dealer may publish or advertise any current model year products, new or used, outside of the dealer's immediate market are through any advertising media including newspapers, magazines, flyers, radio, television, or the internet at a price less than the Minimum Advertised Price (MAP). The MAP for each product will be provided by various Keystone product groups and is subject to change at Keystone's discretion.

"Regarding internet auction sites such as eBay, no "But It Now" pricing can be lower than the MAP. Any suggestion that customers may purchase a product on an internet auction site below MAP is prohibited.

"For non-current model year products, the MAP advertising policy shall be lifted on all products sixty (60) days after the model year change. Therefore, effective June 1, 2008, the MAP advertising policy will no longer apply to all 2008 model year products. Please note in future years the exemption date of the MAP for non-current model year products may vary depending on a new model year introduction date.

"Any sales advertisement of a new or used non-current model year product with a price below the MAP must also have the model year of the product listed.

"All dealers are further restricted from representing, publishing or advertising that a retail customer may take delivery of a Keystone product outside the dealer's immediate market area, or at one of Keystone's plant facilities regardless of model year.

"Any violation of the Advertising Policy will be addressed by the product group in which the violation occurred on an individual basis. Keystone does not desire to terminate relationships based on the Advertising Policy; however, Keystone reserves the right to do so at its sole discretion. In such an event, Keystone will take the necessary steps to terminate the relationship in accordance with, and subject to, any applicable dealer agreement along with federal and state laws."

DeVito said he welcomes the opportunity to discuss the case with other RV dealers who feel they may have been harmed by the policy. He can be reached at 216.687.1212 or by e-mail at [email protected]

Here is the link I found this at. Click

Its interesting to read some of the comments below the article.

I feel we live in an open market and they should be able to sell at whatever price upfront they wish to whomever would like to buy the product, just like most all businesss do.


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## SmkSignals (May 2, 2005)

In short, yes, it's fair. Cooper's RV Center chooses to be an authorized dealer of Keystone product. Keystone is keeping the playing field level for all it's dealers. Don't like it, don't carry Keystone.

I am in an industry that practices the same logic. It is fair for all our authorized vendors.

*** On Edit *** After re-reading, I do not agree with the used,same model year, policy. The dealer should be able to take a coach on trade-in, and sell it for what he wants.

IMHO, Kurt T.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

If a unit of the current model year is used, they still have to adhere to the MAP.. That would bother me if I were a dealer..

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

If you follow this link, then scroll down to the 4th podcast, there is an interesting interview with Cooper RV Center.

Click

Carey


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Given the current market conditions this tactic is incredibly stupid. RV manufacturers are in an all-out survival mode right now and should be completely focused on moving units through the factory floor, and staying in business. I fail to see how imposing restrictive sales laws upon their dealers at this moment will help them move units. If I was a stockholder in their company I would be disturbed. They should instead be focused on eliminating any and all barriers to sales, not tying the hands behind their backs.

This tactic is something you try and get away with in a bull market, but definitely not now. I feel sorry for the Keystone employees that will lose their jobs over this executive blunder.

If Fleetwood is not too big to go down, then Keystone should be on notice. But hey, maybe they can get full MAP for the leftover units at the chapter 7 liquidation.


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## hazmat456 (Jul 26, 2007)

why should keystone care what a dealer makes on any given model? Be it a dollar or ten thousand. dose setting these prices create more sales? Keystone makes the same amount regardless per unit. so wouldn't allowing dealers to sell more be obvious?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

They did it because dealers like Lakeshore were pricing many dealers out of the market. If Keystone goes back to the way they ran before Lakeshore will again reap the benefits of volume sales at a low mark up.

The dealers can not have it both ways.


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Ok, so they sue Keystone, who do you think in the end is going to pay for that litigation? - the consumer! Why can't the Keystone make rules? I am sure, as a business, there is reasoning as to why they set these rules - So - if they don't like the rules - don't sell Keystone products!

I can only imagine those that rely on this dealer for warranty service - are they going to suffer because this dealer decides to sue Keystone??


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Listening to the Podcast, this dealer has been open since 1951.. I bet there is plenty of money to pursue there interests without affecting there business.. If no other dealers jump in with them, I would expect they would have to drop it. They are looking for support of dealers here.

The RV mfr's have there own lawyers in there employ.. So as far as this costing us money, not anymore than usual. Just makes there lawyers busier.

Carey


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Dealer has a tough choice to make, I don't like Keystone's policies one bit, however for the most part they are nothing new at all. Keystone is responding to some of the dealers that moan and complain when dealers like Lakeshore (and other) outsell them by offering a lower price and ship the RVs into their territory and don't provide the service after the sale. Add to that the fact that Keystone doesn't pay the rate the dealer charges for work it all adds up to dealers getting snippy.

If the dealers feel strongly enough, the drop Keystone and tell them to come pick up their trailers. There are other manufactuers out there, then and only then will Keystone back off on its pricing tactics.

I've seen this with other manufacturers as well. The fine folks at R-Vision were some of the worst at it for a while.


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## Rubrhammer (Nov 27, 2006)

There are ways around it.
They can advertise locally at lower prices. Just not out of area is the way I read it.
So those that are selling via the internet are the ones that are being restricted. If they want to advertise via the net the need only say call for our price. I don't see where it says they cant say we'll match anyone elses price.


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

Fair trade laws disappeared 33 years ago. Anyone else remember when certain products, like Timex watches and many cameras and electronics, couldn't be sold for other than the manufacturer's specified price?

"A fair trade law was a statute that permitted manufacturers the right to specify the minimum retail price of a commodity, a practice known as "price maintenance". They first appeared in 1931 during the Great Depression in the state of California. They were ostensibly intended to protect small businesses to some degree from the competitions of the very large chain stores during a time when small businesses were suffering. Many people objected to this on the grounds that if the manufacturers could set the price, consumers would have to pay more even at large discount stores. The complexity of the market also made the enforcement of these laws almost impractical. As the chain stores became more popular, and bargain prices more common, there was a wide-spread repeal of the laws in many jurisdictions. In 1975, the laws were repealed completely."

Sluggo


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## 4ME (Sep 11, 2006)

California Jim said:


> Given the current market conditions this tactic is incredibly stupid. RV manufacturers are in an all-out survival mode right now and should be completely focused on moving units through the factory floor, and staying in business. I fail to see how imposing restrictive sales laws upon their dealers at this moment will help them move units. If I was a stockholder in their company I would be disturbed. They should instead be focused on eliminating any and all barriers to sales, not tying the hands behind their backs.
> 
> This tactic is something you try and get away with in a bull market, but definitely not now. I feel sorry for the Keystone employees that will lose their jobs over this executive blunder.
> 
> If Fleetwood is not too big to go down, then Keystone should be on notice. But hey, maybe they can get full MAP for the leftover units at the chapter 7 liquidation.


I agree with Jim on this one.
I am in manufacturing and things are brutal are right now. Make and take any reasonable deal would be my tactic.
If a dealer can move inventory at a little less profit to make way for next model year or to just reduce inventory then why not.
RV mfg's won't take as many orders for the new ones untill the old inventory shrinks. Price negotiation is key right now. They need some wiggle
room.I would imagine the dealers get some hold back money like auto dealers do to keep things running.That is how a dealer can sell you a 
vehicle at or below cost without taking a bath.


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## 4fun_timers (Dec 16, 2007)

I'm a tech rep for a (the







) major HVAC manufacture. We have territories and if we sell outside of that territory, we have to give a portion to the other distributor (cross territory fees). We do it all the time and all seems well. It is designed to keep us in our own territory and cover the parts warranty & support cost if we venture out of it.


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

What happened to the "free market?" I should think any dealer should be able to sell any unit for whatever price they want to. They paid Keystone for their units so they should be able to take ever how much or how little profit they want to.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

Mark


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

There is no restriction on what they can sell at. There is only a restriction on what they can advertise at.


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## LA Plouff (Mar 15, 2008)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> MURRYSVILLE, Penn. -- Pennsylvania RV dealer Keith Conard, owner of Cooper's RV Center, announced today he has filed suit against Keystone RV Company after the manufacturer threatened to cancel his dealer agreement regarding violations of the company's Internet marketing policy.
> 
> Conard said the policy, created in May, puts RV dealers carrying the Keystone product line at a competitive disadvantage. The policy prohibits dealers from advertising any current model year RV at any price below the manufacturer's minimum advertised price. Conard and his attorney consider that policy to possibly be a violation of federal restraint of trade laws.
> 
> ...


As far as I am concerned, Keystone has made many changes during this past year that I do not agree with. 1): When I bought my OB, I shopped online and found the best price at Holman Motors in Batavia OH. 2: This year is the last for the OB floorplans. (Another mistake by Keystone). (We cannnot tell you how many people have walked up and have taken tours in out Kargoroo). 3: I will not be dictated to by local dealers such as Tacoma RV (Tacoma WA) as they see the price levels (because that is what Keystone wants to sell them at). Let Keytone know that there are too many RV's adn TT's out there to dictate what the dealers must do. My advice is to shop around and find a not-so-dictative dealer who had better quality that Keystone. If they raise the prices or hold true on their price levels, then by George, we want quality and service which Keystone is lacking now. Buying an RV is optional, not mandatory. Some dealers dont realize that. Let them go away like "Aloha" did in the past. Now, I'll get off my pedestal.


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## Morgueman (Dec 3, 2006)

Since the dealer agreed to the policy before they started dealing with Keystone, then it's entirely fair, and that judgement applies to the used units as well (if that policy was also incorporated into the deal).


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Morgueman said:


> Since the dealer agreed to the policy before they started dealing with Keystone, then it's entirely fair, and that judgement applies to the used units as well (if that policy was also incorporated into the deal).


This policy was inacted in May 2007 from my understanding. Prolly 95% of Keystones dealers were signed up before that date. From the Podcast the dealer said he had been selling Keystones for a long time. This program has been imposed upon most of the dealers years after they signed on for the most part.

We bought ours in Iowa in 2006.. After Keystone inacted this program, they quit selling them and switched to another brand that doesnt care what they advertise at.

The low intro price was what caught my eye when I was searching online for our Roo.. I called and they threw in all sorts of perks to get me to come and get it.. Paid my gas, and my time.

This saved me over 4000 from my local dealer.. They told me to go get it.. They wouldnt budge.. 
I prolly would have never bought from this Iowa dealer had I seen a higher price. Prolly would have bought another brand cause I only had so much to spend.

Carey


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

As far as I'm concerned this is just price fixing and un-American, I feel every dealer should have a freedom to set the price to what ever they want. Nothing be greed in my book.


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## 3LEES (Feb 18, 2006)

I don't consider Keystone's policy price fixing. They are only telling their dealers that they MUST ADVERTISE MSRP, and not the dealer's true selling price.

What I do think Keystone is trying to do is negate any advantage the buyer might have in investigating the true price of a unit. Supposedly this would level the playing field for all dealers.

Which brings me to MY point:

Why not sell the units like Sears sells mowers? Dealers could price the units at cost plus a margin for profit and overhead. No haggling. No need to have a high pressure salesperson and a sales manager. All they would need is someone to answer questions and a cashier to take the money!

Of course this will never happen...makes too much sense.









Dan


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## 5th Time Around (Jul 8, 2008)

I believe IMHO that this is Keystone's response to other dealers complaining about Lakeshore and Holman. In July when I was looking for my OB, I found an 09 31kwf at Lakeshore for thousands less than any other dealer would sell for. That was after I called on an ebay used unit for a low price. When my dealer of prior purchases had the same used model as Lakeshore and was asking blue book for it and Lakeshore was giving it away my dealer called Keystone directly. Even though they do not carry the OB line they carried other Keystone lines. The dealer wanted to know how was Lakeshore getting away with selling for less. Keystone quickly told them that Lakeshore is sticktly a volume dealer and they can not control them. They ended up coming down on the price so I stayed locally. My point is that other dealers are getting cut out of the market by volume retailers.

I do not believe in price fixing, but we have seen this happen in most industries with the "Big Box" retailers selling stuff for so much less than smaller operations. I cannot tell you how much internet purchasing I do strictly because the price is lower. I hate going to Walmart so much, but money is money and they are cheaper. Take a look at this : Boxmart

At least for now the TT's are made in the USA.


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