# The Old Oil Change Debate



## matty1 (Mar 7, 2005)

From the AP press, your mileage may vary:

Oil Changes Might Not be Needed So Often
The Associated Press

By Tom Krisher

March 22, 2007

DETROIT -- Most major automakers agree: The adage that you should change your car's oil every 3,000 miles is outdated, and even 5,000 miles may be too often.

Ford Motor Co. became the latest manufacturer to extend its oil life guidelines, making public that it is raising the recommended oil change interval from 5,000 miles to 7,500 on its newly redesigned 2007 models and all subsequent redesigned or new models.

The company, like many other manufacturers, said higher oil quality standards and new engine designs were responsible for the change, which affects vehicles driven under normal conditions.

"The oils have advanced a lot since the days when 3,000 miles were the typical oil drains," said Dennis Bachelder, senior engineer for the American Petroleum Institute, an industry organization that sets quality standards. "They're certainly more robust than the oils of 10, 15 years ago."

These days, motor oils start with a higher-quality base oil than in the past, and they have more antioxidants that make lubricating properties last longer and other additives that keep deposits from forming on engines, Mr. Bachelder said.

Pete Misangyi, Ford's supervisor of fuel lubricants, said the company conducted numerous fleet and laboratory tests with newer oils before it raised the interval.

Some manufacturers, such as Honda Motor Co. and General Motors Corp., have stopped making recommendations on all or most of their models, instead relying on sensors that measure oil temperature extremes and engine revolutions over time to calculate oil life and tell drivers when to get the lubricant changed. Oil can lose its lubricating properties if it runs at too low or too high of a temperature.

Peter Lord, executive director of GM's service operations, said oil can last 12,000 miles or even more for many drivers who don't run their vehicles in extreme heat or cold or tow heavy loads. "It really does depend on the individual customer and how they've used the vehicle," he said.

When to change oil is not without controversy, though.

Toyota Motor Corp. reduced its change interval from 7,500 miles to 5,000 in 2004 in part because it found that more drivers ran their vehicles under severe stop-and-start and short-trip conditions that cause oil to deteriorate more quickly, said company spokesman Bill Kwong.


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## outbackj (Oct 31, 2006)

I have always changed mine every 2000 miles. If they are saying that oil is better now, then I guess my engine will be that much better. I will still change every 2k. Our vehicles cost 40k - 50k, whats 15 bucks a month to help keep her running smooth. On average how often do you guys change your oil?

Jeff


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## Brad1 (Jan 21, 2007)

outbackj said:


> I have always changed mine every 2000 miles. If they are saying that oil is better now, then I guess my engine will be that much better. I will still change every 2k. Our vehicles cost 40k - 50k, whats 15 bucks a month to help keep her running smooth. On average how often do you guys change your oil?
> 
> Jeff


We go over the 3000 mile mark quite frequently. But never pass probably the 4000-5000 mile mark ever.


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## Scrib (Jun 28, 2005)

Cheap insurance - why push it?


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

This subject is as volatile as religion and politics.......... is my opinion









Map Guy


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## h2oman (Nov 17, 2005)

map guy said:


> This subject is as volatile as religion and politics.......... is my opinion
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep.

Just remember that your oil has to be disposed of. The more often you change your oil the more oil must be disposed of.


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## battalionchief3 (Jun 27, 2006)

They are right, oil is better today. Engines are designed to run cleaner today too. The tolerances are much closer then before and the fuel injection keeps excess carbon out due to complete combustion.

I use synthetic in the burb and my HD, everything else gets conv oil. Name brand oil but conv oil. I change it every 5000 in the burb and HD. Syn oil just does not break down. In the other cars I change it every 3 to 5K miles. I get busy and it slips by but never over 5, rarely over 4000 for that matter. Always a new filter too. My ol' truck has 170000 on it and she keeps going, most vehicles do if you just change your oil and flush the radiator....


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## mv945 (Jul 18, 2006)

Every 5000 miles they get oil changed and new filter. And the Duramax gets a new fuel filter every 15000.


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

mv945 said:


> Every 5000 miles they get oil changed and new filter. And the Duramax gets a new fuel filter every 15000.


Are you using only the OEM fuel filter on your Dmax? If so IMHO you should shorten the interval a bit as the last version OEM filter is only 2 micron rated at ~60% efficiency. The fuel injection system is susceptible to damage from particles of ~4-5 microns and bigger and any water that passes through.

Personally, I have a 2 micron 99% efficient filter installed before the OEM filter -no warranty headaches this way on newer vehicles.

Map Guy


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## ED_RN (Jun 25, 2006)

I use regular oil and change it every 5,000 if I haven't been pulling the TT. I shorten it to 3,000 if I've been towing. Don't want to take any chances.


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

My DW's Honda get changed every 3000 or a little over if she can't get it to the shop. The Excursion get's done every 5000. Both are usually done by the dealerships, so what ever the factory calls for is what they're getting.

I just don't have the time to do it myself anymore, and in the case of the Excursion, I don't want to have to worry about disposing of 4 gallons of used oil everytime.

Tim


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## bill_pfaff (Mar 11, 2005)

I'm pretty much with battalionchief3. Synthetic in the Suburban and good conventional oil in the Honda & Nissan. Only difference is I run with the computer in the Suburban giving myself a limit of 10% life remaining.

Between talking to the dealer and researching the reliability of the computer I believe I'm still being conservative for determining when I need to change the oil. I found an independent website that researched the computer in the Suburban and they reported that the computer produced conservative measurements meaning that it told you to change the oil before you really needed to change the oil. Don't ask me where the site is. This was a couple of years ago and I didn't bookmanrk it. The dealer said that the computer was accurate but that seeing as I was pulling they recommended synthetic if I was going to run by the computer.

I figured that between the conservative numbers in the computer, the extended life of synthetics, and my limit of 10% life left on the computer I would be cool. 60K later I haven't had one single problem (knock on wood) and I'd say conservatively that of that 60K, 75%-80 % was towing seeing as I only use the suburban for weddings, towing, and funerals


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Synthetic every 5000 miles


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Due to the increased strain from towing, I change the oil in my Titan every 3-4,000 miles and use pure synthetic (not a blend). The family car gets changed at about the same interval, but just a high end conventional oil for it. I also change the Titan's transmission and rear differential fluid twice a year, again with synthetics.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Swany (Mar 2, 2006)

matty1 said:


> From the AP press, your mileage may vary:
> 
> Oil Changes Might Not be Needed So Often
> The Associated Press
> ...


Here is my 2 cents worth on the subject of oil change. In the process of managing truck fleets for over 35 years I followed this plan. At every oil change an oil sample was taken and sent of to the lab. (Oil vendors provide this service free to their customers and the oil lab was a third party). Oil change intervals were adjusted per the reports that came back. There were 20 or so markers that were measured but it always came down to soot levels that dictated the changing of the oil (diesel engines). In the 70s as I recall we ended op with a 12000 mile interval. Through the years we advanced to 25000 miles. We operated Cat, Cummins, Mack, and Detroit Diesel. We pretty much stayed with 25K until we received a batch of 2002 series 60 Detroit diesels. To meet the emissions standard change of the day they moved the compression rings higher on the piston. This caused more soot to land in the motor oil instead of going up the stack. These engines had to be changed at 18000. We used non synthetic oil (there was no economical payback for using synthetic). I installed automatic lube systems an all of my tractors and automatic slack adjusters (brake adjusters) and did not schedule tractors to the garage in between oil changes. My cost per mile was low and my tractors always reached the 1000000 mile mark on the original engine (inter city delivery fleet). We operated about 60 sales cars also. I changed them at 5000 (for the last 20 years or so) with a trans oil change at 35000. The cars did fine on that. On my personal cars,the same schedule. In my new Dodge \ Cummins I will go with 7500. Not there yet. There is a lot of "feel good" money spent on oil changes in my opinion.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

I took a 3 day hydraulic class a few years back and the guy who taught the class was the same guy who did all the hydraulics on the Pirates of the Caribbean at Disneyland. His Collage project was the hydraulics that ran Lincoln who use to be at Disneyland and stood up and gave the Gettysburg's Address Some of you might remember that one. He worked part of the year for GM transmission development division and worked with many factories around the U.S. solving hydraulic problems. He was quite a interesting guy.

Anyway he told us many interesting facts about Automobile oils and oil changes. He said that in a lot of cases the oil you are draining is cleaner than the oil you are putting in. He said just because it is black does not mater that is just oxidation, it is the suspended particles that do the damage, there size on the the amount. He said that new oil is not as clean as we might think and you should always change the oil filter with every oil change. He said buy only High quality oil filters the cheap ones can collapse and become useless.

Another fact he kept talking about is the compatibilities of different oil brands. If you change oil brands and if they are not compatible you will loose 25,000 miles of engine life. He said the oil industry is keeping this a secret from the general public, he said you would have to do a complete engine flush before changing brands because it only took a few drops of one oil into the other to contaminate it.

He also talked about synthetic oils and said how good they are but they also had a hidden danger, he said synthetic oil is heaver than water and the water in the oil pan will float above the oil instead of going to the bottom of the pan. He said this is not a problem as long as you keep your oil level at max but if you are the kind of guy who lets it oil go until it is a quart low the pump will pick up that water and sent directly to the bearings, not a good thing.

Me I change my oil every 3000 miles or will change sooner if I'm getting ready for a long trip and I always use the same brand. Sorry about rambling on just wanted to share that with you all.


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

Swany said:


> From the AP press, your mileage may vary:
> 
> Oil Changes Might Not be Needed So Often
> The Associated Press
> ...


Here is my 2 cents worth on the subject of oil change. In the process of managing truck fleets for over 35 years I followed this plan. At every oil change an oil sample was taken and sent of to the lab. (Oil vendors provide this service free to their customers and the oil lab was a third party). Oil change intervals were adjusted per the reports that came back. There were 20 or so markers that were measured but it always came down to soot levels that dictated the changing of the oil (diesel engines). In the 70s as I recall we ended op with a 12000 mile interval. Through the years we advanced to 25000 miles. We operated Cat, Cummins, Mack, and Detroit Diesel. We pretty much stayed with 25K until we received a batch of 2002 series 60 Detroit diesels. To meet the emissions standard change of the day they moved the compression rings higher on the piston. This caused more soot to land in the motor oil instead of going up the stack. These engines had to be changed at 18000. We used non synthetic oil (there was no economical payback for using synthetic). I installed automatic lube systems an all of my tractors and automatic slack adjusters (brake adjusters) and did not schedule tractors to the garage in between oil changes. My cost per mile was low and my tractors always reached the 1000000 mile mark on the original engine (inter city delivery fleet). We operated about 60 sales cars also. I changed them at 5000 (for the last 20 years or so) with a trans oil change at 35000. The cars did fine on that. On my personal cars,the same schedule. In my new Dodge \ Cummins I will go with 7500. Not there yet. There is a lot of "feel good" money spent on oil changes in my opinion.
[/quote]

Yep! The key is the lab analysis of the oil...... The feel good part is true and why peaople get so "in arms" or passionate about "their" system.

Map Guy


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## Ldeneau (Mar 8, 2007)

With our Honda Hybrid it gets changed at 7500 miles even if the computer says it has 
30% or so life left. It uses 0w-40 synthetic. I've also talked with my GMC dealer and 
he says the computer is reliable. He said it accounts for the type of driving you do and 
adjusts accordingly. I think I'll do the engine flush and then use synthetic oil in the HD 
on my next change also. I believe synthetic is better.


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

DMAX will go 8K miles, BMW will go 7.5K miles.

Firm believer in not using too much oil. Saw many a car in the old days go 150K miles on older dino oil with 3K mile change intervals. find no reason that hasn't doubled with the advancement in oil technologies. I find our friends report on the diesel intervals at 25K miles very compelling. The were delivery trucks not highway trucks.

I also tore down a few engines in my day. Engine failure was usually do to a defective part and not oil or the lack of changing it. I did however run into a few of those.


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## Swany (Mar 2, 2006)

NJMikeC said:


> DMAX will go 8K miles, BMW will go 7.5K miles.
> 
> Firm believer in not using too much oil. Saw many a car in the old days go 150K miles on older dino oil with 3K mile change intervals. find no reason that hasn't doubled with the advancement in oil technologies. I find our friends report on the diesel intervals at 25K miles very compelling. The were delivery trucks not highway trucks.
> 
> I also tore down a few engines in my day. Engine failure was usually do to a defective part and not oil or the lack of changing it. I did however run into a few of those.


In all of my years of managing truck shops I never saw a lubrication related failure in a major component that was anything but a massive leak. I had access to all of the factory guys and lube engineers. I had them in my shops working their magic many times on expensive warranty claims. It was never the brand, type or age of the lube that was at fault. Never! On the subject of filters, how many of you use Fram filters? Did you know that they are the poorest quality, poorest media, poorest construction filter on the American market? They spend all their money on advertising. I had a Lube engineer in one of my shops some years ago that did a very interesting show and tell on filttes (he was not a filter salesman). Fram, bottom of the list. fleetguard and Hastings at the top of the list.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Any diesel engine bigger than the diesels in pick-ups contain a lot of oil.. From 7-12 gallons.. My semi engine holds 10 gallons. Thats one reason they have long change intervals.. The oil is checked by the gallon on the dipstick.

Actually some over the road trucks are very hard on oil, because of the extended idling they do while the driver is sleeping.. A lot of the newer diesels require the engine to be set at a fast idle when idling, like 900-1000rpm.. This keeps the engine in proper temps, and can extened change intervals. Most delivery trucks are shut off when they are parked , thus allowing the longer change interval. If its a inner city truck, it would be changed sooner as most have a time limit that is allowed on intervals.

Carey


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## freefaller25 (Mar 19, 2006)

The 99 Audi A4 I owned while living in Germany for 3 years recommended oil changes every 15,000km (9,320mi) or 12 months whatever comes first. That is with full synthetic. This remains true today with their newest cars. Trust me, these engines take a lot of abuse on the Autobahn. You normaly don't run out of power but instead run out of RPM in high gear. That means extended peroids of 5-6K+ RPM as a norm.

The Audi Inspektions service
The Audi Inspektions service exists of two parts: To an oil change after 15,000 kilometers or 12 months as well as the inspection (including brake fluid changes) after 30,000 kilometers or 24 months. The service interval announcement reminds you of both appointments in your Audi.

Like is says, change oil (in German of course) comes on on the message center after 15,000km.

With brand name non-synthetic I change oil every 5,000mi and don't worry about a thing. To each their own, just recycle your used oil and don't dump it on a stump in the back yard.

Tony


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## ProEdge (Mar 8, 2007)

I use Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil and change every 5000 km or sooner..
I change the transmission, front and rear differentials at 48,000 km and use Amsoil Synthetic..
Best and easiet maintenance possible..
It has worked for all my Toyota's..


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## Swany (Mar 2, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> From the AP press, your mileage may vary:
> 
> Oil Changes Might Not be Needed So Often
> The Associated Press
> ...


Enough on oil changes already!


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

"Another fact he kept talking about is the compatibilities of different oil brands. If you change oil brands and if they are not compatible you will loose 25,000 miles of engine life. He said the oil industry is keeping this a secret from the general public, he said you would have to do a complete engine flush before changing brands because it only took a few drops of one oil into the other to contaminate it.

"He also talked about synthetic oils and said how good they are but they also had a hidden danger, he said synthetic oil is heaver than water and the water in the oil pan will float above the oil instead of going to the bottom of the pan."
~~~~~
Where to start - there was a time, in the early-mid 70's, when brand incompatibility was something of a problem. This was due to differences in the additive packages used, specifically the viscosity index improvers (VII), the stuff that makes multi-weight oils work. That was cured by the adoption of industry standards over thirty years ago.

Synthetics are NOT heavier than conventional oils, and water will NOT float on them. Mobil 1 10W-30, for example, shows a specific gravity of a bit over .90 - less than water, and less than many conventional oils. Confusion may have come from an API gravity comparison. The higher the specific gravity, the lower the API gravity. From Platt's Oil Guide to Specifications:

API Gravity
An arbitrary scale expressing the gravity or density of liquid petroleum products devised jointly by the American Petroleum Institute and the National Bureau of Standards. The measuring scale is calibrated in terms of degrees API. Oil with the least specific gravity has the highest API gravity. The formula for determining API Gravity is as follows: 
Degrees API Gravity= (141.5/Specific Gravity at 60 Deg. F) â€" 131.5

Clear as used Rotella?

As for the assertion that new oils are not clean - having spent my time in the bottling plant, I can tell you that the first thing the finished product encounters is a series of particulate filters far finer than any in your vehicle. A second set is the last thing it encounters before entering the containers, which have been rinsed with product. Product cleanliness is not an issue.

Swany is right. A lot of oil goes down the recycle drain for feel-good.

Sluggo


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Sluggo54 said:


> "Another fact he kept talking about is the compatibilities of different oil brands. If you change oil brands and if they are not compatible you will loose 25,000 miles of engine life. He said the oil industry is keeping this a secret from the general public, he said you would have to do a complete engine flush before changing brands because it only took a few drops of one oil into the other to contaminate it.
> 
> "He also talked about synthetic oils and said how good they are but they also had a hidden danger, he said synthetic oil is heaver than water and the water in the oil pan will float above the oil instead of going to the bottom of the pan."
> ~~~~~
> ...


Well I'm only getting my info from a highly sought after industry professional, a leader in his field. I took the class in the mid 90's not the 70's . This is the great thing about this country we can all believe what ever we want, even the company who sell to us or the news media for that mater









I would say a lot of feel good oil gets recycled.

Another thing my instructor said you can't break down oil just the additives in the oil once recovered and cleaned it is as good as new.

This is just another one of those subjects that no one is going to win just like the generator subject, or the TV brand subject or the MAC vs the PC subject. I say we and every rv forum have beat the subject to death and we stop making new threads about them and When someone brings up the subject we should just link then to the old threads and let the new thread die.


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## matty1 (Mar 7, 2005)

I for one learn something new everytime.. I love hearing the information from the guys driving the big trucks. 
I think one of my forum pet peeves is someone putting up a post telling people not to post something...

All information to me is good, be it bad opinion or what not, I take what I need from it and go on from there


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

I agree with Matty1 on all counts.

One of the reasons we do not discourage 'new' conversations on old subjects is simply the fact that newer members can bring different perspectives or reinforce old ones. The hard part is for us less learned ones to decipher all the data and info and decide what to do.

I have enjoyed reading all these opinions and facts. Staying civil is usually the hardest thing to do and once again, everyone has managed that as well.









John


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## kmcfetters (May 7, 2005)

I am sticking to the 3000 mile rule---but at work its every 40,000 in the big trucks!


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Swany said:


> From the AP press, your mileage may vary:
> 
> Oil Changes Might Not be Needed So Often
> The Associated Press
> ...


Enough on oil changes already!
[/quote]

In all my years of trucking I have never seen a in cab diesel heater.. The fact is most idle at night to stay warm/cool.. Since fuel has risen some are trying electric heaters or generators... But the majority still idle.. How many trucks do you see parked at night with park lights on when you go by a rest area? Prolly 75% idle..

I spent 8 years on the road.. I can tell you I always idled.. It drounded out all the noise going on outside of my truck, either in truck stops, or on a off ramp.. When you are otr, you get lil sleep.. Most dont care about idleing, as sleep is much more important..

Go park in a truck stop at night.. You wont sleep either.. The noise never ends.. The worst was the exhaust of air when they applied there parking brakes.. This goes on all night.. Drives a poor guy nuts..

An idleing truck with the ac/heater fan on low and a lil easy music just puts you to sleep..

This is the price most pay while Over The Road.. Yes its hard on oil, but most change at intervals of less than 20,000.

Yes delivery trucks have no reason for idleing, and I feel like you did.. My Current job of 7 years, I run a Day cab semi.. The idle time is a constant 7% which is industry standards.. Most of my idleing is sitting in traffic jams..

A lot of semi engines are in the 1000 cube range.. They change our oil at 10-12K.. Must be working, the engine uses no oil, and it has 730,000.. Our truck is ran 24 hours a day between 2 drivers.. I have the day shift.. We put on 225,000 miles a year, or right at 1000 miles a day..

We change our rear end lube at 250,000 and use synthetic, and the gear box at 500,000 and again use synthetic.. We also use Lubrication Engineers(LE) grease in the chassis

Already knew all the other stuff you mentioned..

Carey


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## Swany (Mar 2, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> From the AP press, your mileage may vary:
> 
> Oil Changes Might Not be Needed So Often
> The Associated Press
> ...


Enough on oil changes already!
[/quote]

In all my years of trucking I have never seen a in cab diesel heater.. The fact is most idle at night to stay warm/cool.. Since fuel has risen some are trying electric heaters or generators... But the majority still idle.. How many trucks do you see parked at night with park lights on when you go by a rest area? Prolly 75% idle..

I spent 8 years on the road.. I can tell you I always idled.. It drounded out all the noise going on outside of my truck, either in truck stops, or on a off ramp.. When you are otr, you get lil sleep.. Most dont care about idleing, as sleep is much more important..

Go park in a truck stop at night.. You wont sleep either.. The noise never ends.. The worst was the exhaust of air when they applied there parking brakes.. This goes on all night.. Drives a poor guy nuts..

An idleing truck with the ac/heater fan on low and a lil easy music just puts you to sleep..

This is the price most pay while Over The Road.. Yes its hard on oil, but most change at intervals of less than 20,000.

Yes delivery trucks have no reason for idleing, and I feel like you did.. My Current job of 7 years, I run a Day cab semi.. The idle time is a constant 7% which is industry standards.. Most of my idleing is sitting in traffic jams..

A lot of semi engines are in the 1000 cube range.. They change our oil at 10-12K.. Must be working, the engine uses no oil, and it has 730,000.. Our truck is ran 24 hours a day between 2 drivers.. I have the day shift.. We put on 225,000 miles a year, or right at 1000 miles a day..

We change our rear end lube at 250,000 and use synthetic, and the gear box at 500,000 and again use synthetic.. We also use Lubrication Engineers(LE) grease in the chassis

Already knew all the other stuff you mentioned..

Carey
[/quote]
Not a lot of people don't use cab heaters but they do exist and are certainly better fuel wise and equipment wise than idling. Have you ever seen a diesel engine that has idled all night and when you step on it it blubbers and blows soot all over the top of the cab. That is because compression rings don't seat at idle! Cab heaters?http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/idling_2004/beauchamp.pdf Like I said there is a lot of feel good oil changing going on out there. But hey, if it makes you feel good it's worth something.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Always a fun topic! Just 2 things to add:

1. Toyota decreased their oil change interval due to a sludging concern (Tons of trashed engines). This was due to insufficient PCV flow, not drive cycles, but reduced oil change interval will help improve the situation (Of course they don't want to admit this... sometimes the truth hurts!).

2. The pickup tube in an engine is rather close to the bottom of the pan. Also, in a running engine, the oil is all churned up (Think blender). If there is water in the sump, it is everywhere!

Finally, I want to place a vote for "go with your manufacturer's reccomendations. Remember they tested the vehicle to those standards and are interested in producing a reliable vehicle. Change interval costs the manufacturer nothing so they are going to post a good number.


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## Swany (Mar 2, 2006)

Nathan said:


> Always a fun topic! Just 2 things to add:
> 
> 1. Toyota decreased their oil change interval due to a sludging concern (Tons of trashed engines). This was due to insufficient PCV flow, not drive cycles, but reduced oil change interval will help improve the situation (Of course they don't want to admit this... sometimes the truth hurts!).
> 
> ...


I think that this discussion started out there, then went to the 3000 oil change and 2000 and every other thousand. If you can't be scientific about it then go with the mfg recommendations. Here is another thought. Sure, you can change your oil every day and your engine will like that just fine, but every time you do there is a risk that something will happen. You strip the oil pan threads. Somebody leaves the plug loose. Somebody doubles up the oil filter gasket and it springs a leak. In my years of truck shop management I have seen it all and that risk is very real.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I was standing there talkin to the mechanic the other day.. We use a ball valve in place of a screw in plug to drain the oil.. Anyway, he puts the oil meter in the engine and sets it for 44 quarts..

We are standing there chatting, and I look over his shoulder and see a pool of oil bigger than the truck on the floor...

As oil is pouring all over I ask him if he closed the ball valve.. He said yep sure did, and turns around to see about 5-6 gallons on the floor.. he says oh sh**! and has to roll his creeper on the fresh oil.. Ends up getting oil all over his back.. Darn that was funny!

Made the whole shop laugh.. He was the laughing stock of the day..

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

[/quote]
Not a lot of people don't use cab heaters but they do exist and are certainly better fuel wise and equipment wise than idling. Have you ever seen a diesel engine that has idled all night and when you step on it it blubbers and blows soot all over the top of the cab. That is because compression rings don't seat at idle! Cab heaters?http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/idling_2004/beauchamp.pdf Like I said there is a lot of feel good oil changing going on out there. But hey, if it makes you feel good it's worth something.








[/quote]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep I remember the soot.. The new engines have to be idled around 1000 rpm, which pretty much eliminates the morning soot..

In 8 years of OTR I seen about everything, from lil girls doing things there not supposed to do, to fights, and shootings.. Guys trying to sell me the wheels off the truck parked beside me, to the loot they just stole on the way to the truck stop.. I almost got shot twice, once in the Bronx, NY, and the other in Idaho Falls Idaho at a rest area, that was a close call.. I have seen stolen big screens selling for 20 bucks.. I have seen people truely in trouble out there.. I prolly have enough stories I could write a book.. I travelled all 48 plus some of Canada..

Anytime you hear a knock on the door at 2am, it generally is potential trouble.. Always had to be ready for anything.. Heard more sob stories than I could ever believe.. Most want to rob you in every way..

Most idle there truck so they hear nothing..... Thats the safest way to sleep.. Everytime I shut the truck off and tried to sleep I heard people all around.. That keeps you on your toes and never end up sleeping, then I would nod off the whole next day... Thats a







.. Too much to risk.. You kill a family these days and its your fault, most spend time in prison..

Most run the truck at night so they hear nothing and are rested and safe for the next day... Knowone really cares what it does to the oil or the engine.. My rest and safety was my only worry.. The truck came 2nd..

If something is missing outside of the sleeper the next morning... Call the insurance company..

One more thing... Always run heat or ac on recirculate... Never draw fresh air into the truck while sleeping... Reason.... They spray ether into the intake vents while you are sleeping, and knock you out... Many never wake up, or the ones that do wake up on the ground... They steal the whole truck this way, or may just steal everything in the cab.. But you never sleep with fresh intake air on....

Most any trucker with experience knows these things and always idles the truck for his safety. They change the oil often and never have any trouble..

I will tell you a trucker is the last of the great american cowboy... It takes big ballons to want to be a trucker these days.. I had seen enough.. I wanted to see my kids grow up.. 8 years was enough! I still drive, but sleep in my king size bed at HOME!

Carey


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Anytime you hear a knock on the door at 2am, it generally is potential trouble.. Always had to be ready for anything.. Heard more sob stories than I could ever believe.. Most want to rob you in every way..
> 
> Most idle there truck so they hear nothing..... Thats the safest way to sleep.. Everytime I shut the truck off and tried to sleep I heard people all around.. That keeps you on your toes and never end up sleeping, then I would nod off the whole next day... Thats a
> 
> ...


Ok Carey, you win!!








I'll enjoy my cubicle a little more tomorrow as I don't have anything to worry about if I were to doze off for a minute or two!


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I put down right at 500 miles a day... I wake at 3am, and am rolling by 4am.. back home at 3-4pm..
Ive done this current job 7 years.. same run everyday..

The only thing I worry about is falling asleep.. Some days it is very hard to stay awake.. I know i will prolly die or kill others if I fall asleep, so I try with everything I have to stay alert. I have found out of everything in life, the hardest thing is to keep awake when you want to fall asleep. Sirius really helps to keep me awake,(thanks Howard Stern!) and I try to chat with guys on the CB..

No drugs can be taken as the govt requires random and yearly drug testing.. For sure prison time if you wreck and have drugs in you.. At minimum a career ender.. No one can hire you.. We are only allowed to be hired if the insurance company first approves you.. So a clean record is a must.. Too many tickets, they will tell the employer to fire you.. The employers hands are tied on that one, doesnt matter how long you have been there.. In trucking there is a heavy price to pay for accidents/mistakes..

I haul a cement tank, that weighs 65000 lbs loaded. My semi cab is mainly fiberglass and aluminum, the cab crushes on any rollover with these kinds of trailers.... Dry powder tankers are very strong and do not take any of the impact of a rollover.. There are about 250 cement drivers that haul out of this plant.. In 7 years about 5 have died in fall asleep accidents.. It is a one of the more dangerous trucking jobs..

But I trully love it and look forward to my run everyday..

Trucking is not all bad, as there are many great memories.. But in this world its a very serious job and if you look at it that way its a really great living.. The biggest thing to keep in mind is just to be ready for literaly anything.. the worst is being first on the scene to wrecks involving children.. The best is honking my loud air horns at kids!

I often think somedays i would be better off in a cubicle, just as those in cubicles envy us.. Its a job that is one of those that really doesnt fit everyone.. But for some its really great!

carey


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