# Enclosed Underbelly



## BoaterDan

I'm trying to plan out my Fall camping... with the desire to extend the season as long as that furnace will keep it warm inside. As I make those plans I wonder what good the enclosed underbelly really does me.

I have to winterize when I anticipate freezing weather, because the thing is going to be sitting in a lot without the furnace on. It's not like I'm going to sanitize it and re-winterize it just for a weekend (if I could even get water at the campground anyway).

So, I'm wondering if I have to winterize the freshwater system anyway, what good does that enclosed & heated underbelly really do.









Anybody have some words of wisdom?


----------



## hurricaneplumber

The tanks are not heated at all.

There is a plastic tarp material that seals the underside just below the floor and ductwork, then the tanks are below this material and then the whole trailer bottom is closed with the plastic corrugated material. I highly doubt that enough heat would radiant to the bottom of the tanks, the point that would freeze first. Same with most of the plumbing pipes, below the heated portion.

It is an enclosed underbelly, NOT a heated enclosed underbelly.

Mild weather should be fine but not extreme cold.

You could use air to blow out the resdiual water between trips., And drain the hot water tank.


----------



## PDX_Doug

Dan,

The enclosed underbody does a couple of things...

First, it helps trap heat from the furnace ducting, and provide some radiant heat from the floors. It does not have to be freezing for this to be of value. And it will provide some protection from an unexpected (or, expected for that matter) freeze during an outing.

Secondly, the smooth underbody greatly reduces aerodynamic turbulance under the trailer. The smoother the airflow, the more the trailer will stay 'planted' to the road. This in turn, increases stability. Think 'ground effects' on a race car. The underbelly does not actually create any downforce, but it works along the same principle.

Thirdly, it allows Keystone to do a really crappy job of building their trailers when it comes to wiring and plumbing. Without the pan, they would actually have to put some time and effort (read money) into routing wires, etc. If you have ever dropped the pan in your Outback, you know what I mean.

As to how these various benefits rank in relation to each other, I could only guess. My gut feeling tells me: Aero, ease of construction and then heating. It will be interesting to see how others might rank these (and/or other) benefits.

Happy Trails,
Doug


----------



## BoaterDan

hurricaneplumber said:


> It is an enclosed underbelly, NOT a heated enclosed underbelly.


Then that's an outright lie all over their marketing materials.









"Heated and enclosed underbelly and tanks and valves "

is on the list of standard features from

http://keystone-outback.com/index.html?page=standards


----------



## cookie9933

I wouldn't call it an outright lie. I would call it a creative use of words.

Fact #1: when the furnace is running, the non-insulated ductwork under the floor gives off (radiates) heat into the enclosed space that happens to contain the water tanks. Fact #2: whatever leaks and poor fit the ducts may have (and there have been stories here about that) will actually blow some heated air into that same space. Result of Fact #1 & Fact #2: "heated and enclosed underbelly and tanks and valves".

Now whether that will keep everything from freezing no matter how cold it gets is arguable. I don't think that Keystone or any dealer makes that statement. If a person reading the Keystone literature interprets "heated and enclosed underbelly and tanks and valves" to mean nothing will freeze no matter what, that's unfortunate.

Bill


----------



## mswalt

> If a person reading the Keystone literature interprets "heated and enclosed underbelly and tanks and valves" to mean nothing will freeze no matter what, that's unfortunate.


As thin-walled and un-insulated as these trailers are, I would hope no one would think the tanks are "unfreezable." (is that a word?)









Mark


----------



## 7heaven

Oh, and don't forget the aerodynamic benefits of that underbelly cover. It lets you cut through the air with the greatest of ease.....


----------



## BoaterDan

Yeah guys I know all that. I was really just pointing out that Keystone's claims are directly contrary to plumber's statement.

But to the real question.. even if they are heated what good does it really do me since I still have to winterize?


----------



## Highlander96

Well........On the brochure they show red arrows going under the belly and blue arrows going over the top of the unit.

Call me too analytical......but.......????????

Kinda makes you wonder what is implied? Huh?

Happy Outbacking!

Tim

Oh, the one thing it did do is keep the horse poop from getting flung up there when I was towing it through Amish country on Sunday. Hey.....We have to clean up after our dogs!!!!!!


----------



## CamperAndy

Check my signature photo. That is snow guys.

The trailer is a 3 season design. All systems will work down to and actually below freezing if it is occupied. I have spent several days in mine with all systems working correctly when night time temperature were in the mid to upper 20's and the day time temps were in the mid 30's.

If you are really worried about it and you think it will stay below 32 day and night. Just carry all your water in bottle/jug form. No showers, its not like you are sweating that much. Put pink stuff (a bit more then normal as it will get diluted) in the gray and black tank and use to your hearts content. When it comes time to dump fill the tanks with a hose and dump.


----------



## BoaterDan

Thanks Andy. Did you have the unit winterized already before that trip? If not, then wouldn't everything freeze up on the way to the spot where you turned on the furnace?

That's the part that I don't see from a practical standpoint. If it will keep things thawed "if it is occupied" what good does that do you since it's not occupied the week before the trip or on the way to the destination so it has to be winterized.

Again, just looking for the practical real-world explanation of how this helps me extend my season. The only thing I could see is what Andy said, where I don't use the freshwater system but only the holding tanks really.


----------



## 2blackdogs

Here is my 2 cents worth and remember that 2 cents does not go far these days.
Water freezes at 32 deg.
It takes really cold temperatures to freeze my bird bath and that is with the cold encircling the entire water.
It would take really cold temps to freeze the tanks as big as they are.
The small water lines is what I would worry about. My plans later this year
is if the temps are to be low, I will
open the cupboard doors under the sink and in the bathroom to let some heat in.
I'm talking temps between maybe 25-32.
I'm glad it doesn't get cold here in NM
until late Dec-Jan. Even in the coldest the ground only freezes about and inch.
Bob & Judy (2blackdogs)


----------



## rdowns

We often camp in cold weather and I wouldn't buy a trailer that didn't have the enclosed/heated underbelly. As long as you run the furnace you should be pretty good., within reason. Even houses will freeze if conditions are right. A person can also add 12v heating pads to the tanks for additional security. When your camper is parked and weather is inclement unless you plan to run your furnace, the lines must be protected. Again, I may add this applys to your stick house as well.


----------



## BigBadBrain

The advertising on the Outback may be misleading if you aren't really aware of what the situation is. However, I will contrast the statements on the Outback with the statements on the Cougar - cousin to the Outback. The Cougar has a 'polarization' option that actually circulates heated air in an insulated space under the TT or 5er. Now, that isn't going to stop you from needing to winterize because, unless you want to run the furnace all winter long, you are still going to have cold penetrate the insulation eventually. The other consideration is that many of us use a ceramic space heater rather than the propane furnace if we have shore power. In the Cougar, that could negate the circulated heat benefits and leave you with a problem (not as much because it is still insulated, but a problem nonetheless).

Just rambling.


----------



## CamperAndy

BoaterDan said:


> Thanks Andy. Did you have the unit winterized already before that trip? If not, then wouldn't everything freeze up on the way to the spot where you turned on the furnace?
> 
> That's the part that I don't see from a practical standpoint. If it will keep things thawed "if it is occupied" what good does that do you since it's not occupied the week before the trip or on the way to the destination so it has to be winterized.
> 
> Again, just looking for the practical real-world explanation of how this helps me extend my season. The only thing I could see is what Andy said, where I don't use the freshwater system but only the holding tanks really.
> [snapback]55265[/snapback]​


The trip where the picture was taken was at the end of winter and I had just de-winterized it. I did not worry about the cold too much while traveling as it was just below freezing and when I was stopped we had the heat on. Had no noticeable issues. I did not re winterize it as I felt that the hard freeze threat was past.


----------

