# Sway Control



## shaela21 (Aug 16, 2005)

There was a story on the news last night about a truck and trailer accident here on Vancouver Island. A large semi passed a truck pulling a travel trailer, and the turbulence of the semi caused the trailer to sway and eventually lose control to the point it was in the ditch on its side and the truck was still hitched up, but the truck rear wheels were a couple feet off the ground. The story did not mention the size of the trailer, and the camera only showed the front of the rig, so it was impossible to see its full size. It was a F-150 truck. Anyway, the driver (no injuries to the family, except their vacation was over) told the news that he felt the trailer move to the left and right (fish tail) till it eventually swung over to the side of the road and roll over, spinning the truck to the left. A power pole prevented the truck from flipping over.

So this got me thinking about sway control. I do not have sway control on my rig, and maybe I should. I have never experienced sway at any time during towing, but better safe then sorry. I called my local truck parts place and asked about the Dual Cam sway control for my Draw Tite hitch set up, and the guy told me that smaller trailers like mine really do not need sway control (dual axle, and smaller size), and if need be, a friction sway control is all that is needed. Now, I have always thought that the friction sway control was for tent trailers, and really small trailers under 3000 pounds. Anything larger should have a stronger sway control. So, what do you all have, and I am looking for answers for the smaller trailers (21RS, 23-25 footers). of course any comments from the pullers of larger trailer are most certainly welcome.

Thank you.


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

It's really hard to say with any certainty if you need to add some type of sway control. If it's easy and relatively inexpensive to add the dual cam setup to your current hitch it could be good insurance. If you ever end up in a situation where you need it you'll be kicking yourself for not having it. Strange things can happen when driving so a little bit of prevenative action can prevent unpleasant surprises.


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

I have a trailer just one size larger than yours and would not go anywhere without my Equalizer hooked up. I have experienced sway from a passing 18 wheeler before my Equalizer setup was dialed in properly and boy am I ever happy that I got it setup right. I haven't felt any meaningful sway since getting it setup properly.

-CC


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## folsom_five (Jan 10, 2008)

I am on my 3rd TT (20', 28', & 35'). On the 1st two trailers, I used the standard (inexpensive) friction sway control. It worked just fine on the 20' TT and could tell that it really helped to control the sway when larger rigs would pass me.
On the 28' TT, I didn't konw any better and still used the friction sway control. It helped, but I could definately feel the TT sway much more than the 20' TT ever did.
Now with the 35' Outback (31rqs) I use the Equalizer and love it.

While I don't think you need to swap out your entire WD hitch for an Equilizer setup (friction sway control may be just fine with your 21rs), it may be just the piece of mind that you need to feel comfortable and secure for yourself and your entire family.

Just my $0.02.

--Greg


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

We pulled our 21RS with a friction sway control for a couple of years, it seemed to work just fine and we never had any sway problems. The threads stripped out on our first controller and the one the dealer replaced it with stripped out the first time we used it. After that I decided to switch hitches entirely and got the equal-i-zer, there was a noticeable difference with the new setup, with the friction control we never had any sway but with the new equal-i-zer the whole setup was much more solid. DW noticed the difference right away and she usually doesn't pay much attention to these things.

Mike


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

I assume what most posters are calling a "friction" sway control is a sway bar. A sway bar does attempt to control sway by applying a friction force. However, the Equalizer and the Dual Cam is also friction sway control with the friction applied in a different manner and location.

The problem with any type of friction sway control is that the friction force is attempting to control the sway force. Once the sway force overcomes the friction force the scenario you mention can happen.

If you are only going to control sway, as opposed to eliminating it, as all friction sway controls attempt to do, there are many variables to consider. These include the wheel base of the TV, the rear overhang, the suspension, the trailer length from the pivot point to the axles, the loading of the trailer, your towing speed, your tires on both the TV and TT, and finally the hitch set up. EACH of these variables contribute to towing stability. Change any one of them and you change the entire system.


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## TheBrain (Aug 29, 2006)

I wish you lived down here because I have the original load distribution hitch that the dealer sold me with my 28KRS. I kept getting the feeling that it was barely keeping my trailer from losing control. It worked OK but I know It would work great on your small camper. It has the chains and the bar type friction sway bar. Man when I got my Equal-i-zer I could tell a HUGE difference though. If you ever plan to get a larger set up maybe save yourself some future expense and just go ahead and get the EQ. Then you'll be set no matter how big you go. Otherwise if your down in the southeast US call me and I'll hook you up and get that thing out of my shed floor.

Brain


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

For piece of mind and your safty add the duel cam to your setup. There are two types of duel cams (1) is for the newer style of Trunnion bars (no chains) and (2) for older WD round bars with chains. You can see both types at http://www.etrailer.com/c-sc.htm . James


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

GarethsDad said:


> For piece of mind and your safty add the duel cam to your setup. There are two types of duel cams (1) is for the newer style of Trunnion bars (no chains) and (2) for older WD round bars with chains. You can see both types at http://www.etrailer.com/c-sc.htm . James


I'm curious why you recommend the Dual Cam when you tow with the Equalizer (per your signature).


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## 'Ohana (May 20, 2007)

IMO, a sway control device or system should be standared while towing of any size TT. As most may agree, there will always be sudden varibles to be experienced along the journey in the form of wind gusts or evasive manuver's to name a few and for just a few $$ some of those unplesent happinings can be greatly reduced by using different devices where needed.

Also in some cases such devices may go along way in reducing some of the tension by the driver assosiated with towing a TT down the road knowing that so much is at stake.

As for which type and or style one should choose, I would evaluate them all and go with the one that you feal most comfortable with.

Ed


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## 4ME (Sep 11, 2006)

Dude! Thats alot of weight back there! Get it under control with whatever sytem you can afford. If adding bars to your current system works it is a small price to pay.
If not don't waste time and get a system that keeps you and family as safe as possible.

On edit: I use equalizer but i bet the reese is just as safe and popular among this crowd.


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## kycamper (Jun 1, 2008)

outbacknjack said:


> IMO, a sway control device or system should be standared while towing of any size TT. As most may agree, there will always be sudden varibles to be experienced along the journey in the form of wind gusts or evasive manuver's to name a few and for just a few $$ some of those unplesent happinings can be greatly reduced by using different devices where needed.
> 
> Also in some cases such devices may go along way in reducing some of the tension by the driver assosiated with towing a TT down the road knowing that so much is at stake.
> 
> ...


I have a 21 RS and when I towed it home from the dealer with a Ford explorer on flat ground, A truck went buy and the trailer began to sway, a LOT. My previous 16 foot TT never swayed with the friction sway bar. When I got home, I checked and the dealer had NOT tightened the sway bar. After reading everything on this forum, I upgraded to a Dodge Durango and with the sway bar tightened, my sway decreased, but still had some sway with semis passing me. I bought a Propride 3P and feel much safer at 60-65 with the propride than I did at 55 with my conventional hitch. It is a lot of money, but my family's safety is my top priority, and the hitch can be moved from vehicle to vehicle and is guaranteed for life. I am now prepared if I go to a bigger TT in the future


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

I, too, can speak well of the Equal-i-zer hitch. My dealer sent me out the door with a Robin WD hitch and a Reese friction sway control device installed. Both of those were connected to the worthless GM OEM reciever of my 2003 1500 Suburban. My trailer weighed in around 6800# and is over 30' long. The tail was wagging the dog.

The next spring, I bought an Equal-i-zer hitch from RVWholesalers and set up the hitch in front of my house. It took about 4 hours and I had to tweak it a couple times afterward, but after I started using the Equal-i-zer, I never felt any more sway.

Gusty cross winds might move you around, but the trailer and truck move together - no sway. Passing semis can go unnoticed. (I just got back from a 6 hour drive, and a couple semis startled me when they came into my peripheral vision. They were bookin' so fast they snuck up on me. Kept me more alert from then on - after the second one!)

But my point is - I did not feel them come up alongside me.

RVWholesalers has the best price - $449 - delivered to your door. You might be able to get by with the 600# bars, but I'd recommend the 1000# bars. That way, you have room to grow into a bit bigger trailer using the same hitch. And I'll tell ya - you won't want to use any other hitch if the dealer tries to sell you another with your next trailer.

Plenty of accessories here, on the Equal-i-zer Hitch Website. You may want to buy some spare pins, clips, etc. for those emergency situations. (I've lost stuff in the dark before. Glad I had spares!) You can also download and print out the installation instructions (free) ahead of time. That way, you'll get a better idea of what you're looking at and how much expertise and tools you'll need. (Not much - a few wrenches and a torque wrench.) But you might have difficulty bolting up the ball to the hitch-head. The nut is recessed and a standard socket won't get on it with a regular socket. I used a square punch, jammed up inside to keep the nut from spinning while I torqued the ball shank from above with a large pipe wrench.

Hope all this helps. And no - I don't sell hitches, I just really LOVE my Equal-i-zer!

Mike


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

Sean Woodruff said:


> For piece of mind and your safty add the duel cam to your setup. There are two types of duel cams (1) is for the newer style of Trunnion bars (no chains) and (2) for older WD round bars with chains. You can see both types at http://www.etrailer.com/c-sc.htm . James


I'm curious why you recommend the Dual Cam when you tow with the Equalizer (per your signature).
[/quote]
Because the original post was "and asked about the Dual Cam sway control for my Draw Tite hitch set up". Add the duel cam to the setup for $200.00 or buy a new Equalizer for $400.00. I think thet most of us are in a economic crunch right now and people who have/use the duel cam WDH setup stand behind it just like those who have the Hensly or ProPride. James


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

I do sell hitches and have studied and worked in the specific area of trailer sway for over 11 years.

There is a problem with the very term "sway control". It presupposes sway is present, or going to be present, to control. Why is that? Why is it that TT owners have to have "sway control" and 5ver owners do not? It is common knowledge that a 5ver provides more stable towing and yet the question is never asked about how to make a TT tow as stable. Instead, the industry sells a band aid called "sway control" that only works to a certain degree. Most of the time it is sold on price and the TT owner ends up walking on a ledge balancing all of the variables I mentioned in a previous post.

I find it interesting, but not surprising, that the OP starts off posting about an accident and wanting to be safe but the discussion goes in the direction of controlling a problem rather than getting rid of it.


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

GarethsDad said:


> For piece of mind and your safty add the duel cam to your setup. There are two types of duel cams (1) is for the newer style of Trunnion bars (no chains) and (2) for older WD round bars with chains. You can see both types at http://www.etrailer.com/c-sc.htm . James


I'm curious why you recommend the Dual Cam when you tow with the Equalizer (per your signature).
[/quote]
Because the original post was "and asked about the Dual Cam sway control for my Draw Tite hitch set up". Add the duel cam to the setup for $200.00 or buy a new Equalizer for $400.00. I think thet most of us are in a economic crunch right now and people who have/use the duel cam WDH setup stand behind it just like those who have the Hensly or ProPride. James
[/quote]

Oh, I missed the part about the Dual Cam in the OP. That makes sense to me then.

I'm not really that interested in what type of hitch people have or "stand behind." I'm really more interested in the reasoning behind the choices people have made and posting facts about the problems so people can factor them into their reasoning.

Many cynics would believe that I am trying to sell hitches. While I do like to sell my hitches, that isn't where I am coming from.

I believe that when people are given the facts they will make the absolute best choice available to them. I'm not arrogant enough to think that the product I manufacture is ALWAYS the best choice for every single person. Financial factors certainly play into the choice. However, at least people using financial factors as THE deciding factor will still have the facts about the problem and be able to account for the other factors that minimize sway.


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## 4ME (Sep 11, 2006)

Sean Woodruff said:


> I do sell hitches and have studied and worked in the specific area of trailer sway for over 11 years.
> 
> There is a problem with the very term "sway control". It presupposes sway is present, or going to be present, to control. Why is that? Why is it that TT owners have to have "sway control" and 5ver owners do not? It is common knowledge that a 5ver provides more stable towing and yet the question is never asked about how to make a TT tow as stable. Instead, the industry sells a band aid called "sway control" that only works to a certain degree. Most of the time it is sold on price and the TT owner ends up walking on a ledge balancing all of the variables I mentioned in a previous post.
> 
> I find it interesting, but not surprising, that the OP starts off posting about an accident and wanting to be safe but the discussion goes in the direction of controlling a problem rather than getting rid of it.


We all can't afford to spend thousands on problem that can fixed with hundreds. He is towing a 21' trailer and hasn't experienced any sway without it. I know that is not a good idea but the most expensive option is not 
always the best choice either.Your hitch sounds great but if sway bars added to his already paid for hitch fixes his problem...........why not?

P.S. I do appreciate all your towing knowledge and sharing it with us.


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## Justman (Jul 22, 2006)

Sway? What's that?









Really, I had a sway issue even with the Reese Dual Cam. I went with the Hensley and haven't regretted it. On our recent trip to Illinois, I had a 30-40 mph gusting crosswind and semis passing me roughly every 30-40 seconds. I got sucked in when they passed, but not a bit of sway (nada, zip, zilch). If you go this route, be prepared to spend some $$$ though. For me, I bumped the price up against my peace of mind and the safety of my family and the price didn't seem too high after that... Like I said, I haven't regretted it.


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## mobile_cottager (Mar 1, 2007)

I second that! I towed my trailer appox 5000 miles since installing the Hensley, not more sway. I should of bought it years ago.


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## kycamper (Jun 1, 2008)

mobile_cottager said:


> I second that! I towed my trailer appox 5000 miles since installing the Hensley, not more sway. I should of bought it years ago.


exactly. My same feeling with the Propride-no egrets-feel sooooo much safer-peace of mind (I cannot afford to give a piece of my mind-need all of it I can keep)


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## jt-mt-21rs (Jun 17, 2006)

I experienced some pretty bad sway with our 21RS on a recent trip when being passed by trucks. I don't remember it being this bad before so not really sure what changed. I'm going to add a friction setup for now and move a little more weight to the tongue. I think these rear slide trailers have a lot of their weight on the rear incresing the likelyhood of trailer sway. Not emptying the fresh water tank before travel made it even worse.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

I read the OP, and I can say that people here like their Reese dual cam setups - but I have no experience with them and cannot speak from experience. I can, however, speak from experience about the Equal-i-zer WD hitch, and I provided information to the original poster so he/she can get some other opinions and ideas for other options. It will be up to them as to whether their financial situation can handle a new hitch or add to their existing hitch.

It was not my intention to suggest he abandon the Reese and go with another brand - just a testamonial for the Equal-i-zer.

But the point is - IMHO, the poster should get some sort of sway control. Just because he has never experienced sway yet doesn't mean he won't in the future. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

Just my suggestions.

Mike


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## shaela21 (Aug 16, 2005)

And I will get a sway control device. Where we are and where we travel is quite protected WRT high winds (mountains and valleys etc), and the highways are not meant for high speeds. I think the fastest you can travel on Vancouver Island is 110 km/hr. I remember when I bought the Draw Tite hitch, I asked the guy who owned it about sway control, and he recommended the Dual Cam sway control, but he also mentioned that here on the island, it is not that critical, but if I was to pay and arm and a leg and take the trailer off the island and go to the mainland, to definitely get one installed. This accident that happened, I did a bit more investigating and in my opinion, the trailer was too big for the truck. I believe the trailer was in the neighborhood of 28 feet long towed by a 1/2 ton. I can see how he would lose control if it was not weighed in properly, or set up properly. Reminds me of that news clip someone posted here a few weeks ago about the accident in the US where a SUV got tossed around by the trailer and family members died. I believe that accident could also have been prevented.


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

shaela21 said:


> And I will get a sway control device. Where we are and where we travel is quite protected WRT high winds (mountains and valleys etc), and the highways are not meant for high speeds. I think the fastest you can travel on Vancouver Island is 110 km/hr. I remember when I bought the Draw Tite hitch, I asked the guy who owned it about sway control, and he recommended the Dual Cam sway control, but he also mentioned that here on the island, it is not that critical, but if I was to pay and arm and a leg and take the trailer off the island and go to the mainland, to definitely get one installed. This accident that happened, I did a bit more investigating and in my opinion, the trailer was too big for the truck. I believe the trailer was in the neighborhood of 28 feet long towed by a 1/2 ton. I can see how he would lose control if it was not weighed in properly, or set up properly. Reminds me of that news clip someone posted here a few weeks ago about the accident in the US where a SUV got tossed around by the trailer and family members died. I believe that accident could also have been prevented.


Sway accidents will NEVER be prevented as long as the entire industry sells sway "control" that only dampens sway up to a point. Sadly, that won't happen because the entire language is sway control this or sway control that and it has come to mean that there isn't sway. It's a false sense of security from words that include soooo much more than just a hitch.

Sway has to be ELIMINATED for sway accidents to be prevented.


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## kdobson (Aug 3, 2008)

Sean - You bring up very good points. What do you recommend to eliminate sway ?


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

dobber1 said:


> Sean - You bring up very good points. What do you recommend to eliminate sway ?


The only way to ELIMINATE sway is through moving the pivot point of the trailer. This takes away the rotational lever arm that the trailer acts upon when the pivot point is at the ball.

There are 4 ways to do it.

1. ProPride 3P (*P*ivot *P*oint *P*rojection) hitch
2. The orange hitch (they sued me for using the name of the person that invented the orange and the 3P so I guess I can't use their name to recommend them. the case was actually dismissed as nonsense but why give them the satisfaction. Regardless, it eliminates sway. )
3. Pull-Rite hitch
4. 5th wheel trailer.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Sean Woodruff said:


> Sean - You bring up very good points. What do you recommend to eliminate sway ?


The only way to ELIMINATE sway is through moving the pivot point of the trailer. This takes away the rotational lever arm that the trailer acts upon when the pivot point is at the ball.

There are 4 ways to do it.

1. ProPride 3P (*P*ivot *P*oint *P*rojection) hitch
2. The orange hitch (they sued me for using the name of the person that invented the orange and the 3P so I guess I can't use their name to recommend them. the case was actually dismissed as nonsense but why give them the satisfaction. Regardless, it eliminates sway. )
3. Pull-Rite hitch
4. 5th wheel trailer.
[/quote]

Sean - Nothing is 100% preventable and I think you are irresponsible to say that sway can be ELIMINATED, especially with any device used to control sway and yes your device is a sway control device. There was even a recent thread on Outbackers where a 5th wheel lost control in what the poster said looked like sway as he ended up in the ditch with damage to both the truck and the 5er. There may have been a hitch system failure that cased the 5er to go nuts but it was still a sway (loss of control) event no matter the cause. Your hitch and your ex partners hitch are also subject to failure and abuse and not just can but will result in a loss of control event. There are cases reported on RV.net of some of these failures to your ex partner. You may say yours has never failed but give it some time.

You give the impression that the addition of your hardware is all that is needed with no regarded for the other issues that impact the performance of TV and TT. Complacency where people think "I have a 3p so I am immune" may just decide they can drive faster no matter the conditions say a 40 mph gusting wind from one of the quarters, with under inflated P class tires, with an incorrectly balanced load in the TT, while going down a winding 7% grade and they will still be good to go.

There is a lot more that can be said about this subject and I would love to debate you on it but please don't make it sound like all the towing issues can be solved with your newer or ex partners older mouse trap.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

CamperAndy said:


> There is a lot more that can be said about this subject and I would love to debate you on it but please don't make it sound like all the towing issues can be solved with your newer or ex partners older *mouse trap*.


CamperAndy, what do you mean by mouse trap and can you explain why you call it that?

Your point is taken but id argue that the complacency you mention will most likely come with any setup if the operator is comfortable and believes in it. I have heard many people say they get "ABSOLUTELY NO SWAY WITH AN EQUAL-I-ZER". And im sure that some push the safe operating limits because of this comfort. Fact is, it isnt safer than the 4 listed IF all operator dependencies are eliminated.... meaning --> having the perfect operator driving within safe limits and an unexpected situation occurs that causes the TT to "sway" some systems (like the 4 listed) will perform much better than the others when the rig requires maximum performance to keep it safe. Would the rig still wander, go out of control or roll over - possibily in the right conditions. So, to say that it might cause some people to be complacent and exceed safe operating limits, well that can happen with anything available out there once they feel comfortable with it. Now to advertize that you can operate outside of safe operating limits with a particular system, thats another story.

I dont own any of the 4 listed sway control, reduction, disquising or elimination devices (*yet....*) but im pretty confident that if someone were to invest in any of these 4 it will make your trip safer if you find yourself in a situation where the MAXIMUM amount of "performance" is needed to keep your rig and family safe. now of coarse, there is a price to pay and that is a personal choice whether someone feels it is worth investing in.

So now I guess I learned that the only way to *eliminate *sway is to........... _buy a motorhome_.....


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

CamperAndy said:


> There is a lot more that can be said about this subject and I would love to debate you on it but please don't make it sound like all the towing issues can be solved with your newer or ex partners older mouse trap.


Not all towing problems. I have never said that. However, the rotational effect of the travel trailer oscillating back and forth behind a tow vehicle can be solved. I have thousands of hours discussing and testing the problem under my belt so I am quite positive about the problem of trailer sway being eliminated.

People can argue the point all they like. That nonsense is argued all the time on RV.net. The fact remains that all of the arguing against this style of hitch ALWAYS comes from someone who has not used one. On the flip side, all the arguments for this style of hitch ALWAYS comes from someone who has used BOTH a conventional hitch and a pivot point projection. Doesn't that make one wonder who has the experience to judge the comparisons?


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## kdobson (Aug 3, 2008)

Sean Woodruff said:


> Sean - You bring up very good points. What do you recommend to eliminate sway ?


The only way to ELIMINATE sway is through moving the pivot point of the trailer. This takes away the rotational lever arm that the trailer acts upon when the pivot point is at the ball.

There are 4 ways to do it.

1. ProPride 3P (*P*ivot *P*oint *P*rojection) hitch
2. The orange hitch (they sued me for using the name of the person that invented the orange and the 3P so I guess I can't use their name to recommend them. the case was actually dismissed as nonsense but why give them the satisfaction. Regardless, it eliminates sway. )
3. Pull-Rite hitch
4. 5th wheel trailer.
[/quote]

With respect to your point #4 that a 5th wheel trailer is one way to eliminate sway - I disagree. I saw a 5th wheel earlier this year completely lose control right beside me when his trailer started to sway. Now perhaps he had an incorrect set-up - or an overloaded trailer ... but to say that a 5th wheel ELIMINATES sway.... I don't think so.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Back to the original question......What sway control would anyone recomend for a 21RS????

John


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Good call John !

Id have to agree with the recommendations of Dual Cam or Equal-i-zer as an affordable route that would perform well. I started with the Equal-i-zer and it has worked well but not optimal for my setup at leat not quite as well as i wanted. Ill be ordering a Hensley/ProPride 3P from Sean this fall.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

There are a few complaints that have been made to NHTSA about the hensley hitch.. I agree with Andy, nothing can totally eliminate sway..

Do a test for us Sean.. Use a 25 foot trailer and then make that trailer have a 8-9% tongue weight and show us how your hitch does.. Many RV accidents come from people towing in this range and not knowing it.. The cheaper brands wont stop sway at 8-9% tongue weight, would love to see how a Hensley or Pro Pride does.

It is well known that the Hensley or Pro Pride do a better job than the others at minimizing sway.

But for 330 bucks this hitch will do just fine if your trailer has a 12-15% tongue weight based on its gross weight..

Here is a link. I use and approve of the Reese Pro Series!

Click

Carey


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Do a test for us Sean.. Use a 25 foot trailer and then make that trailer have a 8-9% tongue weight and show us how your hitch does.. Many RV accidents come from people towing in this range and not knowing it.. The cheaper brands wont stop sway at 8-9% tongue weight, would love to see how a Hensley or Pro Pride does.
> 
> Carey


That has been done. How about NEGATIVE tongue weight? The geometry of pivot point projection isn't dependent on tongue weight.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Sayonara said:


> There is a lot more that can be said about this subject and I would love to debate you on it but please don't make it sound like all the towing issues can be solved with your newer or ex partners older *mouse trap*.


CamperAndy, what do you mean by mouse trap and can you explain why you call it that?

Your point is taken but id argue that the complacency you mention will most likely come with any setup if the operator is comfortable and believes in it. I have heard many people say they get "ABSOLUTELY NO SWAY WITH AN EQUAL-I-ZER". And im sure that some push the safe operating limits because of this comfort. Fact is, it isnt safer than the 4 listed IF all operator dependencies are eliminated.... meaning --> having the perfect operator driving within safe limits and an unexpected situation occurs that causes the TT to "sway" some systems (like the 4 listed) will perform much better than the others when the rig requires maximum performance to keep it safe. Would the rig still wander, go out of control or roll over - possibily in the right conditions. So, to say that it might cause some people to be complacent and exceed safe operating limits, well that can happen with anything available out there once they feel comfortable with it. Now to advertize that you can operate outside of safe operating limits with a particular system, thats another story.

I dont own any of the 4 listed sway control, reduction, disquising or elimination devices (*yet....*) but im pretty confident that if someone were to invest in any of these 4 it will make your trip safer if you find yourself in a situation where the MAXIMUM amount of "performance" is needed to keep your rig and family safe. now of coarse, there is a price to pay and that is a personal choice whether someone feels it is worth investing in.

So now I guess I learned that the only way to *eliminate *sway is to........... _buy a motorhome_.....








[/quote]

I like your final statement but just don't connect a toad to it or you will start the whole thing going again.

As for the mouse trap comment. I could have used "wheel" as the analogy as in why reinvent the wheel but the mouse trap comment is because someone is always trying to invent a new mouse trap when plenty of the old ones work just fine.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

tdvffjohn said:


> Back to the original question......What sway control would anyone recomend for a 21RS????
> 
> John


I think that's been answered. A dual cam add on to his draw tite WDH will give him piece of mind at a price point that is very reasonable.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Sean Woodruff said:


> Do a test for us Sean.. Use a 25 foot trailer and then make that trailer have a 8-9% tongue weight and show us how your hitch does.. Many RV accidents come from people towing in this range and not knowing it.. The cheaper brands wont stop sway at 8-9% tongue weight, would love to see how a Hensley or Pro Pride does.
> 
> Carey


That has been done. How about NEGATIVE tongue weight? The geometry of pivot point projection isn't dependent on tongue weight.
[/quote]

That was quick! lol

The geometry of your hitch can create that right? Negative. But this negative tongue weight is still based on the 3P geometry. I understand what your talking about Sean.

But any trailer with a less than 10% tongue weight has a very great ability to sway.

So to get a negative tongue weight your hitch geomerty would have to be spec'd or set for that specific weight, right?

So lets do this.. Say that 21rs has a tongue weight of 750.. Your 3P is set at 750 also, creating a negative tongue weight.. Now what would happen if the tongue weight would now be changed to say, 450 and still have the 3p set at 750?

Carey


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

CamperAndy said:


> I could have used "wheel" as the analogy as in why reinvent the wheel but the mouse trap comment is because someone is always trying to invent a new mouse trap when plenty of the old ones work just fine.


That is called innovation. I'm glad I don't have to have a block of ice delivered to my "ice box" to keep the food cold. It worked just fine but wasn't the most effective way of keeping food.


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> That was quick! lol
> 
> The geometry of your hitch can create that right? Negative. But this negative tongue weight is still based on the 3P geometry. I understand what your talking about Sean.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure I am following this Carey. The geometry of the hitch can't create it but the trailer loading can. The linkage system does not project the pivot point based on ANY tongue weight or lack thereof. The linkage is independent of what the tongue weight is on the hitch. It operates in the x-plane of travel (side-to-side) and not the y-plane (up and down). I'm not sure I am even explaining that clearly.

An attempt by the trailer to cause a tow angle, an angle between the TV and TT, will cause the effective pivot point to be 52" forward of the ball. This is regardless of high, low or variable tongue weight.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

How about just asking this? Forget the run around I'm talking, lol

Have you ever had a trailer sway in all of your testing? Being it low or high tongue weight or even a no tongue weight situation.

So by you saying eliminating sway.. This means no matter how a trailer is loaded or whatever.. A trailer cannot and will not sway regaurdless of anything.. Short wheelbase towing a 30+ footer with winds down a hill with a less than 10% tongue weight and hitting an expeansion joint will crash everytime.. Your saying your hitch will totally eliminate the possibility of sway in that situation.

Is this what your saying Sean? That would be a HUGE statement to say a trailer can never sway and create a lose of control if a person simply uses a 3PP hitch.

Carey


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> How about just asking this? Forget the run around I'm talking, lol
> 
> Have you ever had a trailer sway in all of your testing? Being it low or high tongue weight or even a no tongue weight situation.
> 
> ...


Maybe we need to define trailer sway. I define trailer sway as oscillating tow angles caused by the trailer. Eliminating that is exactly what the hitch does.

That said, I'm sure there are some drivers that can crash anything. But, it won't be caused by the trailer oscillating behind the tow vehicle.

By the way, I've towed thousands of miles with the combination you mention. Chevy Tahoe (110" wheelbase) with a 30' SunnyBrook. 
Even loaded the rear of the trailer to reduce the heavy tongue weight hanging on my vehicle and never once experienced any sway in winds, downhill or anything.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Sean Woodruff said:


> I could have used "wheel" as the analogy as in why reinvent the wheel but the mouse trap comment is because someone is always trying to invent a new mouse trap when plenty of the old ones work just fine.


That is called innovation. I'm glad I don't have to have a block of ice delivered to my "ice box" to keep the food cold. It worked just fine but wasn't the most effective way of keeping food.
[/quote]

Nice try, it was the ONLY way to keep food cold until electricity was introduced. Nothing new has been introduced into the issue we are talking about, just a different way to react to the same problem.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Sean Woodruff said:


> An attempt by the trailer to cause a tow angle, an angle between the TV and TT, will cause the effective pivot point to be 52" forward of the ball. This is regardless of high, low or variable tongue weight.


What force is applied to create the projection?


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Sean Woodruff said:


> How about just asking this? Forget the run around I'm talking, lol
> 
> Have you ever had a trailer sway in all of your testing? Being it low or high tongue weight or even a no tongue weight situation.
> 
> ...


Maybe we need to define trailer sway. I define trailer sway as oscillating tow angles caused by the trailer. Eliminating that is exactly what the hitch does.

That said, I'm sure there are some drivers that can crash anything. But, it won't be caused by the trailer oscillating behind the tow vehicle.

By the way, I've towed thousands of miles with the combination you mention. Chevy Tahoe (110" wheelbase) with a 30' SunnyBrook. 
Even loaded the rear of the trailer to reduce the heavy tongue weight hanging on my vehicle and never once experienced any sway in winds, downhill or anything.
[/quote]

No need to define sway... Sway is sway..

The oscillating tow angles can and do get out of control on many vehicles while towing.. This creates at many times a big wreck..

So you are saying that no matter what, a trailer will not oscillate behind the tow vehicle while using a 3P.. That the 3P totally eliminates the posibility of sway or unwanted oscillations on any combo regaurdless of what it is..

The definition of eliminating is the word removing without looking up in a dictionary.

I'm just looking for a non technical answer of yes or no and from what I can tell your answer is a defiante NO... Will never happen..

Ok thanks Sean!

Carey


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

CamperAndy said:


> An attempt by the trailer to cause a tow angle, an angle between the TV and TT, will cause the effective pivot point to be 52" forward of the ball. This is regardless of high, low or variable tongue weight.


What force is applied to create the projection?
[/quote]

Any force applied to the trailer that attempts to pivot the trailer side to side at its coupler.


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> No need to define sway... Sway is sway..
> 
> The oscillating tow angles can and do get out of control on many vehicles while towing.. This creates at many times a big wreck..
> 
> ...


Yes, that's my answer. And a good time to say good night all...


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Sean Woodruff said:


> An attempt by the trailer to cause a tow angle, an angle between the TV and TT, will cause the effective pivot point to be 52" forward of the ball. This is regardless of high, low or variable tongue weight.


What force is applied to create the projection?
[/quote]

Any force applied to the trailer that attempts to pivot the trailer side to side at its coupler.
[/quote]

So Newton's Third law of motion where for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction applies here. The thing is you still have to have an action first. The force you mention means that the sway (angle deviation) has already began for a counter action or Pivot point projection to take place. As for the 52 inch projection, that sounds like a compromise since not every TV has a 52" distance from the ball to the rear axle. What is the effect if the projection is ahead of the axle (we already know what the issue is when the projection is behind the the axle).


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

If you use Seans hitch Newtons law is defeated.. There is no action, this hitch eliminates it.. So there cant be a reaction if there is no action..

A perfect hitch would pivot at the exact center of a tow vehicle.. By that, I mean the hitch pivot point in the exact center evenly split front to back and side to side between the front and rear axle on the tow vehicle. 
The closer you can get that pivot either mechanically or physically towards the center of the TV will create stability and remove the ability for a trailer to sway in the first place..

With a 52 inch forward projection, the mechanical advantage is very 5th wheel like. It doesnt matter about overhang.. The 52 inches will be the same in all vehicles. But some vehicles such as short wheelbase SUV's will feel this affect better than a long bed pick up. Because the rear overhang is shorter on a SUV versus a long bed P/U.

I tow many 5th wheels and some sway/oscilate rather easy. BUT the 5th wheel trailer rarely sways to a point of loss or no control.. The 5th wheel trailer only oscilates a small amount.. Why, because of the mechanical advantage created is a closer to exact center pivot point. The 5th wheel hitch pivot point is also about 52 inches forward from where a tow ball would be..

This is why people love 5er's, the stability feels closer to perfect.

Seans hitch uses the side to side control created from its geometry to further reduce the ability for a trailer to create or get into a sway situation..

With the 52 inch projection and the side to side control of the 3PP hitch, a trailer cannot and will not be able to sway. So if it cant sway to a point of uncomfortble, then the trailer will never affect the TV as far as sway is concerned.

Basically, Seans hitch gives a very close feeling of the stability of a 5er. But now add the sway reduction in the side to side geometry/control built into the 3P..

You now can tow a bumper pull that pulls just like a 5th wheel trailer that has a sway control attached..

Your bumper pull is now a 5er with the best sway control.. So yes its even better than a 5th wheel..

Yes a tahoe with a 30 footer would feel as secure as your dodge with a 35 foot 5th wheel Andy.. The pivot point is closer to the the exact center using a tahoe than a 5th wheel in a p/u bed is. But yes TV wheelbase does make a difference between the two.. But the Tahoe would feel very similar to what a P/U with 5th wheel attached feels stability wise. Using the added sway control on Seans hitch makes up the difference in stability comparing the two vehicles..

Sean is right......... Sway will never happen........

I am just a truck driver so I'm not a techy kinda guy and dont care to be.. I had never seen Sean say sway can and never will happen using his hitch.. I really didnt know how far he would push the eliminating word.. Well I found out that Sean doesnt use the word unless he means it..

ps.. Sorry Sean if you feel I set you up.. But I was just wondering if you felt sway could be totally eliminated using your hitch.. I felt it could from what Ive studied about the physics of your hitch. Ive read and reread the hensley patent, but feel yours is better structually wise.. I feel yours is stronger.

Carey


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> If you use Seans hitch Newtons law is defeated.. There is no action, this hitch eliminates it.. So there cant be a reaction if there is no action..
> Carey


Sorry Carey, not going to happen, there would be a Nobel prize for being able to do that. The energy required to lock the links that project the pivot point has to come from somewhere. Maybe Sean misstated when he said the side to side force is what projects the pivot point but if he meant what he said then there is still sway but his design uses the sway energy to redirect the pivot point. Does this ELIMINATE sway not really but I can understand how it could help control it to a manageable level.

Now I don't have millions of miles trucking to know what it feels like to have to react to many sway events. I do have a about 30,000 miles and I am meticulous in my set up and that has served me well as I have only had one sway event and it was with a 3,000 pound, $4,000 pup. The worst thing is I knew I had packed it wrong but figured I would just pay attention and be good, NOT. Anyway there is no way anyone can justify the price of the big orange hitch or 3P when is would cost 80% of the towed vehicle. Can I justify it when it is 10% of the TT maybe but I still can't see how the hyperbole around these hitches is helping justifying the price point that they are marketed at.

As for testimonials - one of the biggest scams in all the discussions about these hitches is the statement "If you have never towed with it you don't know what you are talking about." is not a very good rack to hang your hat on. The qualifications of those statements are subject to question also because the same guy that says that one week can post the next week that he can not understand his water heater or pump the next week, so how can he understand his hitch let alone all the possible options that are out there. This is not to say they are all unqualified to say how good the hitch is but on the flip side it can not be said that those that have not used it can not question the veracity of the claims made for these hitches.

I think both the hitches we have talked about are good but if they were all they are said to be then they should not be optional, they should be mandatory on ALL trailers. Then there would be economy in scale and they would not be so expensive.


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

CamperAndy said:


> I think both the hitches we have talked about are good but if they were all they are said to be then they should not be optional, they should be mandatory on ALL trailers. Then there would be economy in scale and they would not be so expensive.


Yes, they should be mandatory. However, that isn't the way the world works. There are billions of dollars behind keeping the status quo. The guy who makes the saw that shuts off as soon as it touches skin has the same problem. Why isn't that mandatory? I'd bet every time a person loses a finger or a limb they are wondering the same thing.

I'd love to get into the economies of scale and sell THOUSANDS of hitches. I don't think that will happen because the thinking is so entrenched with people thinking the conventional hitches are good enough. I also don't want to go to China to make the hitches like 90+% of the hitch manufacturers out there are doing.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Sean Woodruff said:


> I think both the hitches we have talked about are good but if they were all they are said to be then they should not be optional, they should be mandatory on ALL trailers. Then there would be economy in scale and they would not be so expensive.


Yes, they should be mandatory. However, that isn't the way the world works. There are billions of dollars behind keeping the status quo. The guy who makes the saw that shuts off as soon as it touches skin has the same problem. Why isn't that mandatory? I'd bet every time a person loses a finger or a limb they are wondering the same thing.

I'd love to get into the economies of scale and sell THOUSANDS of hitches. I don't think that will happen because the thinking is so entrenched with people thinking the conventional hitches are good enough. I also don't want to go to China to make the hitches like 90+% of the hitch manufacturers out there are doing.
[/quote]

The "Status Quo" was not seat belts or air bags or ABS systems or any of a thousand other things done by manufacturers or the government. There was a safety issue that was identified and best current engineered solution was implemented. Heck we don't even have a mandate to have any sway control let alone the sway eliminator.

Back to the hitch design, why was 52" picked?


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

CamperAndy said:


> Back to the hitch design, why was 52" picked?


That was not picked. It is where the vectors intersect when a force is applied to the trailer side of the links. The links need to be able to turn at the hitch when a force is applied by the tow vehicle so that corners can be turned. If the hitch links were any more parallel to each other, which would push the pivot point even further forward, it would require too much force from the tow vehicle to turn the hitch.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> How about just asking this? Forget the run around I'm talking, lol
> 
> Have you ever had a trailer sway in all of your testing? Being it low or high tongue weight or even a no tongue weight situation.
> 
> ...


Maybe we need to define trailer sway. I define trailer sway as oscillating tow angles caused by the trailer. Eliminating that is exactly what the hitch does.

That said, I'm sure there are some drivers that can crash anything. But, it won't be caused by the trailer oscillating behind the tow vehicle.

By the way, I've towed thousands of miles with the combination you mention. Chevy Tahoe (110" wheelbase) with a 30' SunnyBrook. 
Even loaded the rear of the trailer to reduce the heavy tongue weight hanging on my vehicle and never once experienced any sway in winds, downhill or anything.
[/quote]

No need to define sway... Sway is sway..

The oscillating tow angles can and do get out of control on many vehicles while towing.. This creates at many times a big wreck..

So you are saying that no matter what, a trailer will not oscillate behind the tow vehicle while using a 3P.. That the 3P totally eliminates the posibility of sway or unwanted oscillations on any combo regaurdless of what it is..

The definition of eliminating is the word removing without looking up in a dictionary.

I'm just looking for a non technical answer of yes or no and from what I can tell your answer is a defiante NO... Will never happen..

Ok thanks Sean!

Carey
[/quote]

This is beginning to sound like the Bill Clinton inquisition, when Bill tried to explain what the meaning of the word, "Is" is.









Mike


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Sean Woodruff said:


> Back to the hitch design, why was 52" picked?


That was not picked. It is where the vectors intersect when a force is applied to the trailer side of the links. The links need to be able to turn at the hitch when a force is applied by the tow vehicle so that corners can be turned. If the hitch links were any more parallel to each other. which would push the pivot point even further forward, it would require too much force from the tow vehicle to turn the hitch.
[/quote]

The vector point did not appear magically. You either picked the point and then calculated the link angle and separation to get that point or you started with a link separation and angle and it happened to converge at 52". The pivot could be moved forward as you say by making the links more parallel (you said bad forces happen when you do that). So with the same angle you can increase the separation of the links to move the point forward. This may adversely affect the turning radius but I guess that is the reason for my question of why 52".


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

CamperAndy said:


> Back to the hitch design, why was 52" picked?


That was not picked. It is where the vectors intersect when a force is applied to the trailer side of the links. The links need to be able to turn at the hitch when a force is applied by the tow vehicle so that corners can be turned. If the hitch links were any more parallel to each other. which would push the pivot point even further forward, it would require too much force from the tow vehicle to turn the hitch.
[/quote]

The vector point did not appear magically. You either picked the point and then calculated the link angle and separation to get that point or you started with a link separation and angle and it happened to converge at 52". The pivot could be moved forward as you say by making the links more parallel (you said bad forces happen when you do that). So with the same angle you can increase the separation of the links to move the point forward. This may adversely affect the turning radius but I guess that is the reason for my question of why 52".
[/quote]

It was not picked. That is where the intersection takes place when the links are properly spaced to be able to turn the links from the tow vehicle side. Spacing the links any differently, to put the pivot point even further forward, would not allow the the hitch to turn when the TV turns.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)




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## Eagleeyes (Aug 1, 2007)

PDX_Doug said:


>


X2


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Sean Woodruff said:


> The vector point did not appear magically. You either picked the point and then calculated the link angle and separation to get that point or you started with a link separation and angle and it happened to converge at 52". The pivot could be moved forward as you say by making the links more parallel (you said bad forces happen when you do that). So with the same angle you can increase the separation of the links to move the point forward. This may adversely affect the turning radius but I guess that is the reason for my question of why 52".


It was not picked. That is where the intersection takes place when the links are properly spaced to be able to turn the links from the tow vehicle side. Spacing the links any differently, to put the pivot point even further forward, would not allow the the hitch to turn when the TV turns.
[/quote]

That sounds a bit like a freak of Geometry then. If there is one and only one set of spacings and angles where your hitch will work then you must have been awful lucky to come up with it and luckier still that it resulted in a point projection that was acceptable.


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## Sean Woodruff (Dec 20, 2007)

CamperAndy said:


> That sounds a bit like a freak of Geometry then. If there is one and only one set of spacings and angles where your hitch will work then you must have been awful lucky to come up with it and luckier still that it resulted in a point projection that was acceptable.


Well, Mr. Hensley did start working on it in 1955. And, there aren't only one set of spacings and angles where the concept works. In fact, I'm sure there are more as it is a simple 4-bar linkage.

However, there are dimensions that are practical for the sake of using it in a hitch.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Sean Woodruff said:


> That sounds a bit like a freak of Geometry then. If there is one and only one set of spacings and angles where your hitch will work then you must have been awful lucky to come up with it and luckier still that it resulted in a point projection that was acceptable.


Well, Mr. Hensley did start working on it in 1955. And, there aren't only one set of spacings and angles where the concept works. In fact, I'm sure there are more as it is a simple 4-bar linkage.

However, there are dimensions that are practical for the sake of using it in a hitch.
[/quote]

So this comes back to the 52" projection point and why it was picked. You gave one reason it was not pushed more forward due to high turning force with links that are too close to parallel. What loss of performance or design restriction is there to increasing the link separation to move the projection point more forward if that would be beneficial. You can maintain the same link angle that allows the trailer to be turned without too much force.

Too bad you can not get in bed with a frame manufacture and have a system built into the tongue or even build a tongue replacement, since they are just welded to the frame of the trailer in the first place. Or a full receiver replacement so that the design could be matched perfectly to each TV.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Lol.. Still, if a guy would like his bumper pull to tow better than a 5th wheel, the 3P or the hensley is the only hitch out there that can make that happen without using something like a hitch with wheels such as what I designed.

52 inches wasnt picked.. Its where everything intersects in physics.

I have never sit down and done the math on my hitch, but the feeling feels as if the hitch pivots in front of the rear axle just like the 3P does..

My hitch is using the hard mechanics of wheels do do the job.. Seans uses physics do do the same job..

Also knowone in this business claims a total elimination of sway.. Sean and maybe the Hensley are the only one who will claim that.. Like I said that is Huge statement.. The would "eliminate" is a Huge word in itself with the 3P.

Yes to be safe in all circumstances these hitches are mandatory mine included.. But that will never happen..

2008
A truck costs 30k
A trailer costs 20k
A 3P costs 2k

1975
A truck costs 7.5k
A trailer costs 5-6k
A equalizer costs 250.

Not much different in costs from then to now..

The vast majority are using a hitch that was intro'd in the 60's and 70's.. There pop's used them so the sons follow.

Sorry Andy, if there is no action there is no reaction.. These hitches including mine again defeat Newtons law.. I have well learned that can be a real reality..

This has been good reading!

Carey


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Wow, you snooze and then you have to read 5 pages!!!









I'm with Andy on this one: Using absolutes is VERY dangerous. If wind blows your trailer sideways, it will either continue off the road, or be stopped by an equal and opposite reaction. The TV is in front of the trailer, and stops the front part. If you have a 5'er hitch or a projection type design, or a hitch like Carey's, the load will be applied horizontally on the TV more evenly than a bumper pull, but the load is still there. The TT tires will take the rest, but if they are not at the rear bumper, then there is a catilever effect that will cause the back of the trailer to want to pivot away from the wind. This would be sway. Now, if that hitch/TV combo transmits those forces to the trucks tires in a manner that is stable, then I would call the sway "Controlled." I don't care whether that is a 5th wheel, a projection system, a dolly, or an old fashioned friction system. Regardless of claims, we are all just trying to keep our vehicles in control with mechanics and the only way to truely ELIMINATE sway would be to leave the TT parked.... Indoors....









Look at the tire position on a semi trailer and tell me that someone didn't think about this subject.








Of course even semi's lose control and end up in ditches. Eventually the physics of the wind overpower the physics of the tires, and the rest is just a mess for the tow truck drivers......









Now everyone get back out on the road with your sway control of choice and work on keeping the shiny side up!!!


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## KosinTrouble (Jul 18, 2005)

PDX_Doug said:


>


Ohh man, lol here at work, everyone just turned and stared at me.

Kos


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## SmkSignals (May 2, 2005)

tdvffjohn said:


> Back to the original question......What sway control would anyone recomend for a 21RS????
> 
> John


I have no desire to read all these posts, so here is my real world experience. I have a 21RS with a Reese friction bar. I always tighten it the best I can before driving away. Never a sway problem with my previous 01 F250 Crew Cab (very long wheel base). I have towed it once so far with my Expy (119" wheel base) and it worked great behind that also.

I have no idea if it has been metioned here, but it is very important to know how to REACT when sway happens !! If I am correct as soon as you feel some sway starting, give the tow vehicle a little gas, and use your brake controller manually to get the trailer back under control. DO NOT hit the TV brakes alone !! Please correct me if I am wrong.

Being informed on how to stop the sway is as important as the discussion here on the hitches !!!


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

SmkSignals said:


> Back to the original question......What sway control would anyone recomend for a 21RS????
> 
> John


I have no desire to read all these posts, so here is my real world experience. I have a 21RS with a Reese friction bar. I always tighten it the best I can before driving away. Never a sway problem with my previous 01 F250 Crew Cab (very long wheel base). I have towed it once so far with my Expy (119" wheel base) and it worked great behind that also.

I have no idea if it has been metioned here, but it is very important to know how to REACT when sway happens !! If I am correct as soon as you feel some sway starting, give the tow vehicle a little gas, and use your brake controller manually to get the trailer back under control. DO NOT hit the TV brakes alone !! Please correct me if I am wrong.

Being informed on how to stop the sway is as important as the discussion here on the hitches !!!
[/quote]

Personally, I'd focus on light braking for the TT. If it does get worse and you lose it, I'd not wanted to have been accelerating....


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## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

SmkSignals said:


> I have no desire to read all these posts


Ditto.

Anyone who doesn't think a Hensley works, but has never towed with one, please come over to my house and drive ours. If you can make the trailer sway, then you can be "right."

That is all.

Kevin


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Been in a pretty bad sway situation, took my foot off the gas and jammed the manual lever over on the controller, got a pretty good jolt forward but it got the trailer under control.

In our instance there was no time to think and apply a little gas and a little trailer brakes. The truck and trailer were getting out of control too fast to think about it, I just reacted and pulled the lever all the way over and fortunately it worked. I think it's a good idea to give it a try to get a feel for what happens and always keep it in the back of your mind so your prepared to react if you get into a sway situation.

Mike


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

JUST BUY A 1-TON DIESEL !! ITS THE SOLUTION FOR EVERYTHING !!!!
















NO SWAY = motorhome







- its the way to go. the forces are transferred up through the parallel frame rails out to infinity...

Here is how i rank the RV options we have before us and the amount of potential sway.....from least to most.... and from most costly to least costly.

1. $$$$$$ Motorhome - the pivot point is projected out to infinity ... right? 
2. $$$$$ Fiver
3. $$$$ TT with Hensley/Propride/Hitch Hog/ etc. 
4. $$$ TT with 4 pt sway Equalizer
5. $$ TT with double or single friction bar
6. $ TT with no sway control

How this relates i have no idea. i just thought id add it for the fun of it!!


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

I am going to go read some "which generator should I buy" posts where it is nice and safe.

-CC


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## Chandler6 (Aug 12, 2008)

We have a 23RS and pull it with a crew cab chev. truck. We have equalizer bars and a friction sway bar. Wouldn't pull it without it. 


shaela21 said:


> There was a story on the news last night about a truck and trailer accident here on Vancouver Island. A large semi passed a truck pulling a travel trailer, and the turbulence of the semi caused the trailer to sway and eventually lose control to the point it was in the ditch on its side and the truck was still hitched up, but the truck rear wheels were a couple feet off the ground. The story did not mention the size of the trailer, and the camera only showed the front of the rig, so it was impossible to see its full size. It was a F-150 truck. Anyway, the driver (no injuries to the family, except their vacation was over) told the news that he felt the trailer move to the left and right (fish tail) till it eventually swung over to the side of the road and roll over, spinning the truck to the left. A power pole prevented the truck from flipping over.
> 
> So this got me thinking about sway control. I do not have sway control on my rig, and maybe I should. I have never experienced sway at any time during towing, but better safe then sorry. I called my local truck parts place and asked about the Dual Cam sway control for my Draw Tite hitch set up, and the guy told me that smaller trailers like mine really do not need sway control (dual axle, and smaller size), and if need be, a friction sway control is all that is needed. Now, I have always thought that the friction sway control was for tent trailers, and really small trailers under 3000 pounds. Anything larger should have a stronger sway control. So, what do you all have, and I am looking for answers for the smaller trailers (21RS, 23-25 footers). of course any comments from the pullers of larger trailer are most certainly welcome.
> 
> Thank you.


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## hazmat456 (Jul 26, 2007)

> Sorry Andy, if there is no action there is no reaction.. These hitches including mine again defeat Newtons law.. I have well learned that can be a real reality..


for every action there is a equal reaction,if a wind gust blows on the trailer and the trailer dose not move it (as with the P3) then it will be felt as heat in the tires the front tires will actually slide side to side with this hitch installed properly but the truck and trailer will move as one. so you have not defeated newtons law ,the force is just changed from movement to heat generation


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## coloparkers (Jul 22, 2008)

Equalizer brand has worked great for me and my set up. 05 Durango and 26KBRS with no sway problems. Only issue I experience is traveling at 65MPH on the highway and a big rig blows past me at 75MPH plus. When that happens I don't get "Sway" but a mild drift as the wind turbulence pulls the Outback and TV toward the big rig. I just make minor steering correction and it's fine.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Well a 23RS + Equalizer = no sway at all. I just got back from Coast today and had to drive on one of the curviest roads around, had tons of curves uneven roads passed by 18 wheelers and cross winds and not one lick of sway. For me anything more than a Equal-i-zer is nothing more than a big waste of money.

Note:
I'm in no way connected to Equal-i-zer, not a owner, salesmen, or employee just a satisfied customer.


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## Eagleeyes (Aug 1, 2007)

coloparkers said:


> Equalizer brand has worked great for me and my set up. 05 Durango and 26KBRS with no sway problems. Only issue I experience is traveling at 65MPH on the highway and a big rig blows past me at 75MPH plus. When that happens I don't get "Sway" but a mild drift as the wind turbulence pulls the Outback and TV toward the big rig. I just make minor steering correction and it's fine.


What size equalizer do you have?


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## garyb1st (Dec 6, 2007)

A few questions.

On the down side I have a Reese hitch with a friction sway bar. That's what the dealer put on and they didn't say anything about alternatives. Since I picked up the trailer I've read the friction sway bar is inadquate for any trailer over 25 feet in length. Mine is 28. When I asked the owner of an RV supply company about the dual cam he said he wouldn't even use one on my set up. Didn't say why and I didn't ask. Maybe he makes lot's of money repairing damaged trailers.

Now most of this discussion is greek to me and I don't have $3,000 for a hitch so what are my options?

on the up side, I have a long, 178 inch, wheelbase Ford and my trailer is a 28KRS. From what I've read about wheelbase that gives me a measure of protection. The posted speed limit on California highways for a truck trailer combo is 55. I stay within that limit and don't follow closely. I also know what's happening well in front of the vehicle I'm following. Wind is the factor that is unpredictable. So far haven't experienced any high winds.

During the last few trips we've taken it seems most of the big rigs have slowed down. Likely the result of the high priced fuel. Very few pass at speeds of much more than than 60 to 65. It's a lot different than 5 years ago when if you didn't pull over, you ran the risk of becoming a hood ornament.

1. Aside from wheelbase, speed and just paying attention, is there anything else I can do to avoid problems?

I can afford the dual cam if that makes sense but I'm not sure the Reese is the right hitch.

2. I don't know what is meant by dialing in the Equalizer. What does that mean and is there something similar that allows me to dial in the Reese?

Thanks

Gary


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

garyb1st said:


> A few questions.
> 
> On the down side I have a Reese hitch with a friction sway bar. That's what the dealer put on and they didn't say anything about alternatives. Since I picked up the trailer I've read the friction sway bar is inadquate for any trailer over 25 feet in length. Mine is 28. When I asked the owner of an RV supply company about the dual cam he said he wouldn't even use one on my set up. Didn't say why and I didn't ask. Maybe he makes lot's of money repairing damaged trailers.
> 
> ...


Gary, I understand your situation. If it were me, I would add the dual cams (well, I guess I already did.







). Sway is not usually an issue driving down the expressway. I would worry most in CA about coming over a hill on a 2 lane road, or down through a valley and getting caught by a cross wind gust. That would be a suprise and could lead to an unfortunate event. Be safe!


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## garyb1st (Dec 6, 2007)

Nathan said:


> Gary, I understand your situation. If it were me, I would add the dual cams (well, I guess I already did.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


By adding the dual cam are you saying it can be done on the existing hitch? Mine can only accomodate friction control on one side.

Gary


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## Eagleeyes (Aug 1, 2007)

garyb1st said:


> Gary, I understand your situation. If it were me, I would add the dual cams (well, I guess I already did.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


By adding the dual cam are you saying it can be done on the existing hitch? Mine can only accomodate friction control on one side.

Gary
[/quote]

I put on a second sway bar....


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

garyb1st said:


> Gary, I understand your situation. If it were me, I would add the dual cams (well, I guess I already did.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


By adding the dual cam are you saying it can be done on the existing hitch? Mine can only accomodate friction control on one side.

Gary
[/quote]
Reese has a kit to add the cams to a existing hitch. http://www.etrailer.com/pc-SC~26001.htm . If you install the cam kit you will not need the friction sway bar. James


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## Eagleeyes (Aug 1, 2007)

Reese has a kit to add the cams to a existing hitch. http://www.etrailer.com/pc-SC~26001.htm . If you install the cam kit you will not need the friction sway bar. James
[/quote]

That kit doesn't fit all WD systems...I learned from experience.

Anyone want the dual cam?? I'll sell it cheap, unused...you pay shipping!
Bob


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## garyb1st (Dec 6, 2007)

GarethsDad said:


> Reese has a kit to add the cams to a existing hitch. http://www.etrailer.com/pc-SC~26001.htm . If you install the cam kit you will not need the friction sway bar. James


Thanks for the link.

Gary


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## garyb1st (Dec 6, 2007)

Eagleeyes said:


> That kit doesn't fit all WD systems...I learned from experience.
> 
> Anyone want the dual cam?? I'll sell it cheap, unused...you pay shipping!
> Bob


All I know is mine is a Reese. So I guess I'll have to take it to a dealer to make sure it's going to fit.


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## shaela21 (Aug 16, 2005)

[/quote]

That kit doesn't fit all WD systems...I learned from experience.

Anyone want the dual cam?? I'll sell it cheap, unused...you pay shipping!
Bob
[/quote]

If you were closer to me, and on this side of the border I would take you up on your offer. Unfortunately shipping costs may out weigh the cost of the unit.

Thanks.


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

garyb1st said:


> That kit doesn't fit all WD systems...I learned from experience.
> 
> Anyone want the dual cam?? I'll sell it cheap, unused...you pay shipping!
> Bob


All I know is mine is a Reese. So I guess I'll have to take it to a dealer to make sure it's going to fit.
[/quote]

Gary,

Take a look at the Reese Round Bar and Trunnion WD systems at http://www.reeseproducts.com/ and yours looks like either one of those you should be able to find a Dual Cam HP system that will work with it. You can probably even pick one up at Camping World.


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## garyb1st (Dec 6, 2007)

MJRey said:


> Take a look at the Reese Round Bar and Trunnion WD systems at http://www.reeseproducts.com/ and yours looks like either one of those you should be able to find a Dual Cam HP system that will work with it. You can probably even pick one up at Camping World.


Mine are the Trunnion type. I check and see what's available.

Thanks

Gary


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## Eagleeyes (Aug 1, 2007)

garyb1st said:


> Take a look at the Reese Round Bar and Trunnion WD systems at http://www.reeseproducts.com/ and yours looks like either one of those you should be able to find a Dual Cam HP system that will work with it. You can probably even pick one up at Camping World.


Mine are the Trunnion type. I check and see what's available.

Thanks

Gary
[/quote]

Trunnion should work no sweat...


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

Eagleeyes said:


> Reese has a kit to add the cams to a existing hitch. http://www.etrailer.com/pc-SC~26001.htm . If you install the cam kit you will not need the friction sway bar. James


That kit doesn't fit all WD systems...I learned from experience.

Anyone want the dual cam?? I'll sell it cheap, unused...you pay shipping!
Bob
Which kit did you get and what type of bars do you have? James


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## Eagleeyes (Aug 1, 2007)

GarethsDad said:


> Reese has a kit to add the cams to a existing hitch. http://www.etrailer.com/pc-SC~26001.htm . If you install the cam kit you will not need the friction sway bar. James


That kit doesn't fit all WD systems...I learned from experience.

Anyone want the dual cam?? I'll sell it cheap, unused...you pay shipping!
Bob
Which kit did you get and what type of bars do you have? James

[/quote]

Dealer installed the Husky Round Bar WD system. When I bought the dual cam, I purchased the one that clamps over the trailer frame. It comes with adapters for round bars, but the "u" bolt that helps clamp the adapter the bar wouldn't fit over the bar. I didn't want to do too much adaptation since I didn't want to affect the integrity of the WD system....

Bob


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