# 1/2 Ton Tv Owners



## FraTra (Aug 21, 2006)

Towed my new 25RSS for a 3 day outing for 2 hour drive with 1 1/2 hours on the interstate. It used 1/2 tank of gas one way







. I towed most of the trip with OD off and the truck seemed to struggle to maintain more than 55 mph with RPMs between 2500 and 2800 most of the time. Hills were extra bad. It was painfull to hear the engine wind up that tight. On the way back I turned the OD on for a few miles and the truck did a lot better. I could maintain 65mph easily and RPMs where a lot lower. I did have to press the gas pedal on hills to get it to down shift.

What do you do? What's your oppinions? Upgrading TV is not an option.

See sig for Truck specs. TT weighs in about 5,800 ready for camping plus a family of 5 in the cab.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Well a quick look at the numbers shows you are within limits. We experienced some of what you are talking about when we used our Expedition to tow. It had a 5.4L V-8 as well. Really the Expedition is nothing more than a fancy F-150. In my experience, on hills you will have high revolutions on the engine as the 5.4L is trying to stay ahead of things. We used the OD on/off routinely while towing. It does help with reducing the amount of shifting that happens. I think that on hills you can expect this behavior from your engine. we towed two different campers, one a Springdale about 6,200Lbs, people included and then our 31RQS at 7,260 unloaded plus my DW and kids. (TOO MUCH WEIGHT).

Sooo long story short we went to a F250 6.8L V-10. Mucho torque, mucho horsepower. No whining on the hills. Any way, as I have said, we experienced the same thing, with higher revolutions than what your experiencing. You probably will do okay, but the 5.4L is going to let you know along the way that it isn't happy with the weight.

The 25-2800 rpm's was typical with 38-4000 on good hills for what we were towing. Hope that helps somewhat. I think its probably not what you wanted to hear.

Eric


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

What does your owner's manual have to say about towing?

We have a 1/2 ton yukon with 3.73 gearing and have always used 3rd for towing. I've recently gotten into the habit of moving the gear shifter into 2nd on steeper grades because I've found that leaving it in 3rd after it downshifted to 2nd on a grade it would want to shift back into 3rd as soon as it got back up to 60 and start to slow down again. So by manually shifting into 2nd I can maintain 4k rpm's, which is about 60 until we get over the top of the hill and then drop it back into 3rd. Don't worry about the high rpm's too much, small block v-8's can run at higher rpm's.

If you are running on flat ground leaving it in OD is probably okay as long as it's not shifting gears a lot. As soon as it starts to hunt or shift frequently, drop it out of overdrive because the shifting is what starts to build heat in the transmission.

Mike


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## FraTra (Aug 21, 2006)

Mike,

The Owners manual just says take OD off if it has to shift a lot, but it doesn't seem to shift a lot with OD on. But I was afraid towing all that weight in OD would overheat the tranny.


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## cmhaugen (Aug 31, 2006)

I never use overdrive-- you're playing with a $3000 fire if you burn up the tranny. Plan on a long slow drive and you won't be disappointed. I'd like to upgrade the TV also but like you its not in the cards right now.







For now its slow going unless favorable winds!!!!


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## freefaller25 (Mar 19, 2006)

One thing to know is that the 5.4s love high octane fuel. The Navi. requires it but the lower compression F-150 models really show an improvement when running it. Believe it or not I have noticed BP fuels runs the best in mine.

We just stopped on Thursday at the scale and are rolling with 13,180lbs total loaded up for the weekend. I tow with OD off at 65 on the spedo (actually 63 by GPS) and this is right around 2400RPM. At this speed the engine is not working overly hard (average 40% throttle). On very steep hills you have a choice; 1. take it off cruse and feel for the kick down accelerator position and hold it there accepting the speed loss or 2. kick down to second and you should have no problems keeping speed on anything but serious hills with truck lanes. You will not hurt the engine unless something is already wrong. Definitely expect to burn some gas though.

Tony


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

I don't know about Fords, but the Owner's Manual for both my Dodge Ram 3500 and my '98 GMC Safari states to leave the tranny in OD unless the tranny is searching for a gear (thrashing back and forth). I just had my Tranny in the Dodge rebuilt, mostly due to it being underbuilt in the first place and having 150,000 miles on it. I ask the shop manager if it would be better to leave it in 3rd and he told me that it would be better to leave it in OD and let the tranny decide what to do. In the Dodge, I would be turning 2800 rpm (red line at 3000) at 55 mph, so it is not much of an option to drive in 3rd all the time unless I want to drive 45 most of the way. I leave it in OD and most of the time us the Cruise until I start hitting the hills then I drop it out of cruise and let the tranny do its thing. I have done the same thing with the GMC when I was pulling the popup but then the 4.3 L was strong enough to not cause any problems with that light weight.

So the way I understand it, it is best to use OD unless the tranny starts thrashing on the hills and then drop down.


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

If all else fails, read the instructions. My owners manual says tow in OD, unless frequent shifting bothers you. I tow in OD, although it rarely makes to the gear.

If you were experiencing a lot of problems one way, but not the other, I would ask you if you were towing into a headwind on your outbound trip? It is amazing the difference a little wind will make.

Our 26RS is similar in weight, and our truck is about 92% of the GCWR. It does struggle at times, but towing the camper really only accounts for less than 5% of my miles; the other 95% is not towing, so I'm content to put up with something less than 'diesel' performance.


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## 3LEES (Feb 18, 2006)

keeper18 said:


> Switch to 4.10 gears. Your engine and transmission will love you.
> 
> Randy


But your wallet won't


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## FraTra (Aug 21, 2006)

Fords web site States "DRIVING WITH AN AUTOMATIC OVERDRIVE TRANSMISSION" especially in hilly areas may cause excessive shifting between overdrive and the next lower gear. To eliminate this condition and achieve steadier performance, overdrive can be locked out. If excessive shifting doesnâ€™t occur, use overdrive to optimize fuel economy.

How much is excessive? It also does not say anything about damaging drivetrain.


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## Humpty (Apr 20, 2005)

OD off (Tow/Haul on) but it doesn't matter. I keep it in 3rd gear and try to ignore the 9MPG!


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

I think you're okay with the 5.3L engine, myself, for what a woman's opinion matters. I also think driving in overdrive is fine, and will save gas, but as already suggested, take it out of OD when your motor seems to be straining/constantly shifting, and won't unrev on the RPMs. HOWEVER, if you think you're gonna be able to keep it in very hilly/mountainous areas in cruise control, you're in for a surprise......it's not gonna happen, IMHO. I towed a 27RSDS with a 5.3L GMC Sierra, and almost killed me, and the RPMs would peg to 5000 RPMs at times, plus. Remember you can't keep up with the traffic all the time, you've got a load behind you. Find the speed the truck's most comfortable with, and go with that, even if you have to stay in the slow lane. I had a 3.73 on my GMC, as well. Also, you didn't mention if you fill the water tank or not. Tow empty, and fill up at or close to the site, if you're dry camping, if possible. BTW, I put regular unleaded in my GMC, at all times. Also, like Humpty said, ignore the 9 MPG (or it was 8.5, in my case)!
Darlene


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

I was told to tow in OD and the transmision would find the right gear, I have tried both OD and 3rd gear with no differance. I have also found that if you put it in 2nd and get the RPM up to hight it will shift into 3rd anyway, I guess it is fool proof. I also use the Tow Haul mode and the rpm's go a lot hghter before is shifting to the next gear.


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## ED_RN (Jun 25, 2006)

Some one with a lot more knowledge than I recently reported some testing they had done in another thread on this topic. If I remember right they installed a tranny temp gauge and found out the temp was lower when towing with the OD on. I usually leave the OD on unless I'm climbing a hill, makes for a smoother pull.

You mean you can tow with the cruise control on. I tried it twice with my Tundra on level highway and won't try it again. It shifted gears about 10 times in half a mile. Shifted less with OD off but not a lot less.


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## klnks06 (Aug 11, 2006)

After I towed for the first time I spoke with our Chevy Service Manager at the local dealership, and told him that I had the Tahoe in tow mode and overdrive and it kept shifting back and forth, he told me when it did that to drive in 3rd. I have done that on the past two trips, and kept the speed around 65, and my highway towing has been just fine. He told me that the tranny on the Tahoe will definately burn up if it keeps shifting back and forth, even though it does have a tranny cooler.

We are planning to upgrade to a diesel sometime next spring, as we have some trips to the mountains planned, and I want to make sure that we have all the necessary power to do the job.

Kent


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Towing in OD is really not the debate here. What we should be talking about is running with the trans in or out of lock. If you turn your radio down you can hear the torque converter lockup. You should be able to hear a very small drone once the converter locks up.

Once it locks up you have less residual loss and lower heating of the trans. Now here is where things get a little complicated. Running in OD means the trans will unlock more often, you should be able to hear it. So unless your running on only the flatest portions OD should be off to heat your trans less. Simple test for those of you with a trans guage. Now for Tow haul, generally this sets the shift points at higher RPM, but I'm not sure if it effects lockup. Try another simple test see if it locksup sooner or stays locked up more often. If it does it means you can use OD more often and avoid heating, If not then I recommend less OD.

In general I would lean more towards running with OD off with 1/2 ton trucks. For the most part 1/2 ton trucks use borrowed car tranmissions and for a lot of towing I'm afraid there days are numbered.

For you Toyota members my manual specifically said to tow with OD off anywhere above 2000# tow vehicle weight.

I don't bother using Tow Haul in my Diesel because the manual says it isn't worth it until you tow at or above @75% of GCWR. That is a big number for the Dmax\Allison trucks and I'm no where near that.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

I don't tow the Outback in OD, because the lockup clutch is constantly engaging/disengaging (hunting) with even slight variations in grade. On hills, the transmission will downshift to 3rd or 2nd, depending on the percent of grade and length of the grade. Both of these situations create a heat problem, and heat is what will fry your transmission. My GM dealer said to put the shift lever in "3" and keep the rpm up. Heat changes the characteristics of the oil (viscosity) and can glaze clutch plates (which can create even more slippage/heat when the clutch is trying to engage).

Since your transmission has a fixed-displacement pump, the more engine rpm, the more oil is delivered to the transmission hydraulic control - and maximum pressure can applied to the clutch pistons (if everything is adjusted properly and not worn out). This is the best-case scenario for preventing clutch slippage. Clutch slippage will do in a transmission over time - and the more weight and steeper the grades, the more the transmission is prone to slippage.

If you have "Tow-Haul" mode, keep that turned on, too. It electronically changes the shifting points so that your engine rpm remain high. I'm not sure if it increases the clutch pressure through the solenoid valves or not, but I would suspect that might be a part of that strategy. Maybe a GM tech can weigh in here?

We all like to get to our destination sooner - but driving in a lower gear and keeping the engine rpm up (2500-3000 is plenty) will make your tranny last longer.

Also, I don't recommend using Cruise Control when towing. I tried this ONCE, and that was enough. On a long uphill (and not real steep, either) the tranny downshifted to 2nd, at about 60 mph. 5000 RPM is NOT a good idea, but that's where the software map sent it with the torque load and speed I had chosen. The electronics are smart, but they assume that you will do sane things!

There's other stuff going on here, too, but I won't bore you with the details. Just be aware that towing in OD is not a good thing, and keep the engine rpm up when towing up a grade.

Just my educated 2 cents.









Scoutr2


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

FraTra,

In my book, the only way to really know if you getting excessive shifting is by installing and watching a transmission temperature gauge. If the temps start to climb much above normal at all, you need to get the transmission locked up, which in most cases means dropping it out of overdrive.

In most cases the RPM difference between the gears is minimal, and your fuel mileage will not suffer that much. As far as winding it that tight, your redline on that engine must be somewhere up around 6,000RPM. Until you start approaching that, you are really not working it that hard. It may sound awful! But the engine is designed for it (or the redline would have been 2,500!).

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## FraTra (Aug 21, 2006)

Thanks to everyone for all the great replies. I'mjust trying to get a warm and fuzzy feeling about which is right and I understand both sidesof the coin. I called the dealership today where I bought my truck and ask to speak to a service tech who is knowlwdgable about towing and Ford transmissions. I got a call back and the answers I got was if its shifting a lot take OD off, if it's not downshifting and searching for gears a lot, which it wasn't, leave OD on. He said if I'm in the mountains and such turn it off.

As I stated I could do 65 no problem at 1900 RPMs with the OD on and when I would go up a slight to moderate hill on the interstate it would not downshift (I kept a close eye on the tachometer). It did not seem to be straining or lugging down. Once on a moderate hill I was wondering why it would not down shift so I had to press on the gas to get it to do it.


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

Regardless of what the techs tell you, I would be leary of towing with that vehicle in OD. We are patiently waiting to get rid of our "Wonderful" Ford product that has now had 2 transmissions rebuiltin it. I only towed our boat 2 times with the truck and it has 34,000 miles on it.

Get a good tranny temp gauge. One that actually tells you the temperature and not just hot or cold....

Good Luck and Happy Outbacking!

Tim


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Side roads, leave it in third only. Highways and below 55 - 60, leave it in third, otherwise it will search for either. Highways and highway speed with moderate hills (not mountains) you could be ok in OD. When you reach a grade, manually put it into third if nesecary. This is what I did with my Suburban (96, 3/4 ton, 454)

Temp guage a must


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## FraTra (Aug 21, 2006)

Where is the best place to have a trans temp gauge installed? Is this something I can do easily or something that is best done by a dealer?


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

FraTra said:


> Where is the best place to have a trans temp gauge installed? Is this something I can do easily or something that is best done by a dealer?


Try here for starters....Clicky

It should be a pretty simple install and the kits should have everything that you need.

Happy Outbacking!

Tim


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## Kyoutbacker (Apr 26, 2006)

M 2001 Dodge 1500 Ram will start a beeping noise from the dashboard when it wants the OD turned off. If you ignore the beep a red light comes on -on the dashboard- and the OD automatically turns itself off until the trans cools back down. Only had it happen once, on a 6 mile 6% grade.


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## firemedicinstr (Apr 6, 2005)

I too had a towing experience going up Afton Mtn in Va that made me scratch my head. I have towed the OB to Minnesota and back and could not understand why I was having trouble keeping up speed. Tranny was doing some hunting and I really needed to slow down to keep the vehicle comfortable.It felt like I was towing a brick. 
Scratched my head, pushed the little button on all the tanks and saw 1/4 tank or less.
When we got to the campground....I pulled off the drain cap to my H20 tank and drained a bunch of water, flushed the grey and black tanks.............and took the trip a second time........................guess what. My Armada towed like a dream....It really does not seem like alot but if you have 20 gallons fresh, 10 gallons grey and 10 gallons black you have added 300 -400lbs to your trailer. I still blame the change to 10% ethanol on some power loss............but that is a different topic.

mk


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