# Electrician In The House?



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Hoping the vast Outbacker.com members list will have an electrician.

On Tuesday morning I turned on a the lights at the top of our stair case....and it worked. I have 3 switches that all control the same 4 can lights. One by master bedroom door...one at top of stairs and one by guest bedroom door.

Tuesday night (actually Wed at 1am) I went to bed and NONE of the switches would turn on the lights.

All the lights around that area work...checked fusebox...nothing blow. Not sure they would even do a individual circuit for 4 can lights anyway.

So...what is the best way to start to troubleshoot this? I expect one of th switches has died, but I'm not really sure how to test for a failure. I'm sure there will be a common traveler wire that connects them and (here is where it gets fuzzy for me) is there typically only one live power feed? Meaning, will switch #1 have the romex with power, but then switch #2 and #3 are daisy chained?

If it will help, I can open the cover and take some pictures of the 3 switches and post them here.

Thanks for the possible help.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Jim,

I did a little poking around for 4-way switch wiring diagrams to see what I might come up with, and didn't find anything that jumped out at me as a cause.
Here is a site that will give you the wiring schematic which may help you: Clickie

Hope this helps!

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## john7349 (Jan 13, 2008)

Will a picture help??








http://www.wfu.edu/~matthews/courses/p230/...variations.html

I'm not an Electrician, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn......


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Jim:

I am not an electrician either, but, we have had a simalar problem in the past.

First, I would open the breaker on that circuit and verify it at each switch with a circuit tester or meter.

Then I went and checked all the connections at each switch. What I found, in our case, was that one of the wires worked its way loose and opened the circuit.

Once we found the wire that was loose and re-connected it - everything worked.

Hope this helps.

Rick


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Had a similar issue. No breaker blown but if I threw the breaker it was on, they worked and an hour later did not again. Thinking worn breaker, changed it. Turned on new breaker and the white wire from that circuit fried at the panel connection. Turned off breaker (obviously) and moved burned wire away from anything else. I opened every outlet and switch box in the circuit and found nothing wrong. Currently waiting for my brother, the electrician to take a look, amatuer hour is over.

John


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

tdvffjohn said:


> ....snip...Currently waiting for my brother, the electrician to take a look, amatuer hour is over.

















I don't have a electrician brother


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## NAturedog2 (Jan 29, 2007)

with three switches you will have two 3-way switches and one 4-way switch. one of the 3-ways will have power (a hot wire usually black) going to the common screw (usually a different color than the other two ) of the switch the other two wires are the travlers which will then go to the four way. the four way switch has four screws (four wires ) two from the one 3-way and two going to the other 3-way. The other 3- way has two travelers coming from the 4 way and them the common goes to the light. .. hope this makes sense. So I would pull all the switches and check the two three ways for poewer with a meter (if you have one) one of them should have the power coming from the circuit breaker. If you have power at teh common screw check the screw (wires) that are leaveing the switch (travelers) one of them should be hot either way the switch is turned. and then go to the next one wire should alway have power all the way to the last 3-way switch.

Hope this helps

Russ


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

One of your switches probably went bad, or a wire came loose somewhere. You can check for loose wires easily by pulling out the switches and checking the connections (turn off the breaker first). A wire also may have come undone at one of the can lights, but it's less likely.

You'll have a four-way switch, and two three-way switches. The problem switch is probably the four-way, and most expensive one! If you replace one or all of them, make sure to draw a diagram or take a photo of the wiring at each switch so you can put them back on the same way they came off. Three and four way circuits can get confusing real quickly! There should be white, black, green (or bare copper), and red wires, but look for wires that have been "recoded" with colored electrical tape at the ends. There are markings on the back of the switches for neutral, traveler, and line, so pay attention to those and you should be able to fix the problem pretty easily.


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## Airboss (Jul 14, 2007)

You could try to PM 'jozway', he's an electrician.


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

then their was Rick a couple months ago putting up a new chandlier that has 3 switches that can turn it on. They were all turned off, as was breaker, but there was still a hotwire. I couldn't keep from laughing at his surprise and choice of words, he didn't think it was so funny.Electrician neighbors are good to have!







AFter some electrical trial and error they figured out what it was and all was well. Chandlier is great!


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Doxie-Doglover-Too said:


> then their was Rick a couple months ago putting up a new chandlier that has 3 switches that can turn it on. They were all turned off, as was breaker, but there was still a hotwire. I couldn't keep from laughing at his surprise and choice of words, he didn't think it was so funny.Electrician neighbors are good to have!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ouch!! That happened to me one time in our old house - circuits were crossed and wired wrong. My daughter was in the room and she saw and heard what happened.


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## 3LEES (Feb 18, 2006)

rdvholtwood said:


> My daughter was in the room and she saw and heard what happened.


Did her ears require "sanitizing" after the incident??









Dan


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

3LEES said:


> My daughter was in the room and she saw and heard what happened.


Did her ears require "sanitizing" after the incident??









Dan
[/quote]








Oh I'll never tell....









BTW - MR OC, did you ever find out what the problem was?


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

rdvholtwood said:


> My daughter was in the room and she saw and heard what happened.


Did her ears require "sanitizing" after the incident??









Dan
[/quote]








Oh I'll never tell....









BTW - MR OC, did you ever find out what the problem was?
[/quote]

Had a conference call with out Taiwan team until 10pm my time...will look into it his weekend for sure.


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

when any of you see Rick ask him about the incident 20 years ago when on the roof of our 2 story house installing a skylight in August ( read temps well into the 100's). The skylight wouldn't go in and well, let's just say it was renamed. Oh my, was it renamed. I learned words that day I never knew existed. After being renamed, the* *%^#- ^(%$*#^ - *$%#&%- $*&#@(* - %*&#** slid right in. Don't even try to figure out those words...you'll NEVER get it!


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## jnk36jnk (Mar 9, 2004)

After reading all of that, and looking at all of the diagram's I believe I'll have a beer.








Dean


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## jozway (Jan 28, 2008)

Check connections on the switches first. Make sure you got 120 volts to neutral. Make sure all wires are tight in wire nut connections. If that all checks out i would check the closest can light to the 3 way switch that has the switch leg (wires going to cans) in it and make sure all wires are tight there. If that dont work just call me 253-606-6533.
Joe


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

jozway said:


> Check connections on the switches first. Make sure you got 120 volts to neutral. Make sure all wires are tight in wire nut connections. If that all checks out i would check the closest can light to the 3 way switch that has the switch leg (wires going to cans) in it and make sure all wires are tight there. If that dont work just call me 253-606-6533.
> Joe


Thanks...

Funny thing is...they worked this morning. So this makes me think I do indeed have 1) loose wire 2) faulty switch.

Will be checking it out tomorrow.


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## Texas Friends (Feb 12, 2006)

Slim chance but may be worth looking into....

Check your Ground Fault Circuits in the house to see if any of them have been tripped. You never know what other lines may be tied into one of the circuits if one of them has been tripped. Your plugs in the bathrooms, kitchen and outside will usually be GFC plugs.

Just an idea if it hasnt been checked.

Bryan

Happy Camping


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## 76 cougar (Jan 30, 2005)

Ok - For a Quick check of the switches go to the switch that is near to the elect panel. Call this n.1 Leave it as is. go to next switch call it n.2. turn n.2 on and off see if lights work. Go to n.3 and turn it on and off. if nothing works on 2 and 3 go back to 1 and put it in the other postion. Go thru 2 and 3 again and see if lights come on. If nothing set 2 both ways and flip 1 and 3. Then set 3 and flip both ways. All switches need to be worked with all the others in every postion they can be in. If the lights work in any postion your panel and power is ok its a switch. The switch that lets the other two work in one postion but not the other is the one that needs replaced. whatever you do kill the power when replacing a switch 120 volts can kill. 76 cougar 29 years as an electrian.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Ok, I printed off all the input from everyone, in case I have to do this in the future.

Thing is, the darn lights have been working for the last few days and I'd rather not tear into the switches if I don't have to. If/when this problem comes back, I'll be ready.

Thanks again to everyone that provided input....Outbackers or the BEST!!!!


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Which leads me to think 76 Cougers troubleshooting is on the money. The bad switch was thrown once and the others work. As long as the bad switch is not used again............

Pay attn to that detail if they stop working again.


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