# Help!!!where Is Circuit Breaker And What Does It Look Like?!



## m2edumacated (Feb 12, 2012)

So, sitting here at a site in BC. Heard a click click click the small bangish kind of sound. Smelled like something burning and the wife says she saw a spark under the breakers. I have a 300bh. Replaced both 30 amp fuses. Battery power still works, but nothing plugged in. Could someone help me out on finding the circuit breaker or perhaps give me a model number? Have a buddy that might be ableto help out in a couple days. Would be nice if i could get the part. Thanks guys!!!


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

You need to give us more details on what part you think is bad.

I going to say that the most likely issue is a loose wire. Unplug from shore power and check all the wire to make sure they are tight.


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

I don't know what brand, year or model of trailer you have but on our 2008 21RS, some of the neutral wires were loose where they attached to the neutral bar on the converter. I had one fall completely out of the converter. You might want to try unplugging the shore power, pulling the cover off the converter and making sure all the wires are tight.


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## m2edumacated (Feb 12, 2012)

Thanks everyone. To update, 2011 outback 300bh. I changed out breakers and checked all cables. The panel off and i smelled burning and heard a slight sizzle. Under the breakers is the circuit board and stuff. Maybe inverter?wires were all solid. Looks like im on battery for a couple of days. Just a real bad way to finish a vacation. Thanks guys.


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

Minor detail, but it's a "converter" that's under the breakers / fuses and it changes AC to DC & provides 12 volt power to charge batteries & run low-voltage items. An inverter changes 12 volt DC power to 120 volt AC power to run things like the microwave, TV, etc. Without pulling the panel completely (easy, only 4 screws), you don't know the condition of the neutral / ground bar that's mounted on the floor under the AC / DC load center. I was considering the converter going bad as well, but it sounds like the problem is with the AC side of the panel since you've lost all 120 volt power. You may want to take a look behind there to see if there's any nicked, kinked or chafed wires. The 30 amp main AC feed will be orange Romex that connects to the back of the panel, with its black, white and green wires running to the 30 amp main breaker and neutral / ground bars respectively. Look for loose wires there and at the ground connections under the panel. The problem also could be a bad breaker, but you said you replaced them, so......


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

The converter is also offten connected to the electical outlets so if you turn off that breaker you also loose the outlets. So it would be best to power down and disconnect the converter then power back up so you have functional outlets.


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## Leedek (Nov 28, 2010)

*NOTE TO SELF:* *Remove shore power from trailer. Turn DC disconnect off. Remove converter from its location. check all connections for tightness, chaffed wires, abrasions. Tidy up the whole electrical area. Put everything back in its place. Plug in, turn on, pop a top and remember .... you just saved yourself a flash,burn smell, and the DW wondering how she's gonna watch The Bachelor.









*Seriously, thanks to M2ed for asking for help and allowing me to read the replies. This forum is always helpful. Thanks to all.


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## m2edumacated (Feb 12, 2012)

Thanks everybody. I always hope that when i post it can help others. Here are a couple of pics of what im looking at. That's about all im doing right now is looking







. Dont see anything burned. Checkiing wires next.

More:
When it is plugged in to shore, fan runs for a second, then stops. Then i hear a click. Like something is tripping. On a side note i have tried to test my gfi circuit, but the botton wont pop out when i hit test. Could this be a cause our it is an effect?


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## Leedek (Nov 28, 2010)

m2edumacated said:


> On a side note i have tried to test my gfi circuit, but the button wont pop out when i hit test. Could this be a cause our it is an effect?


It could be your GFI is saving you a major problem. It may be tripped because their is a dead short between hot/grd/neutral someplace. With shore power off , check with an OHM meter (volt/ohm/meter on ohms scale ) at your alternating current (AC) GFI receptacle. It just seems like you are chasing a short. Good luck and be careful if you are not sure about electrical stuff then find someone who can help.


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## m2edumacated (Feb 12, 2012)

Update!!! Thanks again everyone, when we have a group trying to problem solve something it makes things go a lot smoother for the guy in trouble (namely me).

So now that were back home, I had the tools figure this stuff out. Put the meter to the main power cable going into the board. Nothing, dead. So I went to the back of the trailer and detached it and then had the 10 gauge by itself on each end. Put the meter to that to see if I had a bad wire...bingo. I had nothing.

Now the fun part. I have no plans on trying to splice something so without having to pull off the whole underbelly, I made a couple of strategic holes that I will fix up when this is done. Pulled out the cable, and to my surprise the wire was jammed in pretty good at the frame of the trailer and floor. Over the last year of movement, rub, rub, rub and exposed the wire and grounded against the metal frame and arcing (where I was smelling the burning).

Anyway, bought 25 feet of new cable and going to install tomorrow. This is our second summer with this and I Don't have warranty on it anymore. However, I do plan on emailing my pics to Keystone as this is clearly a problem that came about right from production. I just hope my converter still works







. Will update again WHEN this works (Thinking positive here







)

Zoom in a little on the first one if ya can.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

I had almost the same issue with a water pipe from new that was crushed between the frame and the sub floor of the trailer. I missed it at the PDI as I just checked for water flow from the pump for just a second. When I got home and tried to fill the tank it would not fill correctly and once it was full the pump put out very little flow. That was when I went diving and found the pinched fresh water tank fill and pump suction hoses.

The trailer floor is built upside down and when all the wires, plumbing and heating ducts are done the the frame is set on the bottom of the floor and then bolted to it. The entire thing is then flipped over to build the rest of the trailer. This is typically why inside the belly of the trailers it is such a mess of wires and trash.

I am surprised you were not tripping the shore power breaker instantly when this started to make contact. Cant tell from the picture but was there a pass through that was missed for the routing of the wires?


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## m2edumacated (Feb 12, 2012)

Yea I as wondering about why a breaker didn't go myself...Part of my email in to Keystone. Where would the pass through be?

On the update side of things, It's all done. While I was pulling cable, I noticed the other wire was pinned in there pretty good as well. Decided to drill a new whole right next to the old one. Little bigger. Cut out the bottom pan in a few strategic places and took off a few bolts on the edges. Ran the conduit, then cables. Everything works! Had to reorganize most of the breaker panel (looked really messy). On another note, that 10 gauge is not easy to work with, needed to grease it up a little







. I have some final pics to post. Thanks again everyone. Still think something like this should be addressed with Keystone. The fact that something that happened at all and that it was on the negligent part of the manufacturer is disturbing. Even more disturbing is the fact that no breakers tripped.


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

Nicely done. Hope this solves all your problems.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

robertized said:


> ...The short circuit current originates at the point of the short and goes back through the supply. There could be a number of reasons why the breaker did not trip at the pedestal. Not enough current to reach the trip point of the breaker....


I guess that would qualify as a "partial" short vs a "dead" short????


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Potato, Patato, I will give you your interpretation of a "high resistance short" as what I was referring to as a "partial short". Intermittent is more likely a dead short but of short duration and not describing accurately what I was talking about in the pervious go around. I am sure you have in your electrical career also seen instances of high resistance shorts and depending on the part of the country you come from they could go by various names but still mean the same thing.

I think this is also a lot like splitting hairs, so in the future I won't try to split yours if you don't work too hard to split mine.

First cold one is on me.


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