# Concerned about negatives in forums....



## joshfrantz (Nov 30, 2004)

I am one down payment check away from buying my first TT, an Outback 28BHS. The family loves the interior, which is why I am buying it instead of a Jayco 29BHS. I am unsettled at how much negative press the Outback seems to get. Before I write the check for several thousands of dollars I was hoping to get a little reassurance from this forum.
I am getting a 2004 28BHS (new) for $17,500 (I live in California. If this seems high it is probably because you live closer to Indiana and the delivery fee was quite a bit less????)
Also, the dealer is throwing in a pull-rite weight distribution hitch. Despite my concrens he assures me over and over again that I do not need sway control with either vehicle I will be using (I am towing with either a Chevy Express 3500 passenger van or a 1500 extended cab silverado).
I am rambling, just looking for any thoughts before I "pull the trigger".


----------



## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Let me guess, you've been reading over on RV.net right? There is a reason many of us Outback owners don't post there much, its full of negative people (not all, but enough). I too had some concerns when I was shopping about at a year ago. What I heard was how bad the Outback was and how great the KZ was, but very little constructive comments. Sure the KZ is good, no doubt, but any camper can have issues. The Outbacks had some quality issues in the first year or so of production, and they then ramped up to overload production. If you read through here you'll find some issues from some of us, I've had a couple, that my dealer quickly fixed. I've been very happy with the Outback in the past year, setup is easy, its stable and serves our family very well. All in all I would buy one again. You'll find several Outbackers who are on their second Outback after wanting something larger, and you'll find some folks that have had problems (NDJollyMon) that still like their Outbacks. Plus you'll have this great group of owners and this great site, that isn't full of Weight Police or Negative people.

What dealer are you working with? You may find one of the Outbackers here knows about the dealer and can share experiences with you.

Welcome to the Outbackers and hope you join the ownership ranks.

PS: On price, you are getting a good deal I'd say, the Lakeshore RV price, which is about the cheapest we've seen on a consistend basis lists that camper for $17,499 (click here)


----------



## Ymryl (Mar 2, 2004)

How many of these negative comments are from actual Outback owners versus posters that have "heard" that there were quality issues? Do the same posters also put down anyone that isn't pulling with a dually diesel? You're not going to find that type of BS negativity here, instead you're going to find a great tight nit group of people that are happy with the units they decided on and go out of their way to help each other out when problems do arrise. How many other campers have a dedicated owners forum like this?

I'd love to see some of these sites that give such "bad press", can you provide any links?

Out of the 660 current members, I'd say you would be hard pressed to find more than a handful that have had bad experiences with their Outbacks other than an occassional leak due to faulty caulking or other minor issues that were cleared up by their dealers or Keystone.

I for one have absolutely no problem with the quality of either unit I have purchased.










BTW, welcome to the community. I wish you the best with whatever decision you make regarding the purchase of your camper. action


----------



## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

I can't improve upon what Steve and Paul have said, and agree completely. FYI I have owned and camped in our 28BHS for one year now and have not had a single problem. The unit has worked flawlessly since the day I brought it home.

As to your price and set-up: First, don't take no for an answer and insist your dealer install either a Reese dual cam system or Equil-I-zer. Both are outstanding. I personally use the Dual cam system on my 28BHS and it tows like a dream. I think others will agree when I say you should definately use sway control on a trailer that measures 29'4" from stem to stern.

As to the purchase price you mentioned it sounds a little high for a new but still last years model. I bought mine ( in So-Cal) for the same price but IN the 2004 model year. For the time I purchased though it was an outstanding price at about 25% off the list price. I would try and press for up to 30% off the list for this unit or get them to install the Dual cam sway system and a Prodigy brake controller for no extra charge. Also, you will need 1000# weight distributing bars.

I live here in the S-Cal area so if you need any help just holler. Good Luck


----------



## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

HI 
Welcome buy the Outback. My 26rs left the dealer over a year ago and hasn't been back. We love it and have no complaints. I have had a 21' class C a 34' class A and now the Outback I would take the outback over all of them.
Good Luck action 
John


----------



## campingtom170 (Apr 26, 2004)

We purchased our 28rss in April of this year and have used it on over 12 trips since that time. We had some minor issues that were all handled by the dealer to our satisfaction but no serious problems or defects.

I have been involved with camping and RV'ing for many years and have owned serveral types and brands of RV's. We are very satisified with the Outback and would not only purchase another one but would also recommed the unit to anyone looking for a quality family style camper. As you have already heard from the others, the support and positive attitude from the members here is as good as it gets.

Happy Camping sunny

Tom


----------



## vern38 (Aug 18, 2003)

We have a 25FB that was one of the first Outbacks in Texas the year they were introduced to the market. It will be 3 years old in December and have only had 1 real issue that the dealer took care of at no charge. This travel trailer has seen quite a few miles and is still a super unit. Welcome to the forum and good luck on your purchase. I'm sure you will be happy with an Outback...









Vern


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

I can't say anything that hasn't been said already about the quality. Like all things, cars, trucks, and even houses, all will have problems. The important thing is how easily those problems get fixed. A good dealer service department is key to happy RV ownership in my opinion.



> Also, the dealer is throwing in a pull-rite weight distribution hitch. Despite my concrens he assures me over and over again that I do not need sway control with either vehicle I will be using (I am towing with either a Chevy Express 3500 passenger van or a 1500 extended cab silverado).


Check this link: Pull-Rite Hitch

If this is the hitch your dealer is "throwing in", he is correct is stating that you will not need a sway control. I don't think the dealer would be giving you a $2300 hitch. Also, you will not easily be able to switch tow vehicles with this hitch, as it permanently attaches to the tow vehicle.

I would definately confirm the hitch you are getting. If it is the Pull-Rite referenced above, I'd say go for it. It is a high quality hitch. If not, I'd go with California Jim's recommendations, and go with a Reese Strait-Line, or The Equal-i-zer brand hitch. If cost is not an object, then many consider the Hensley Arrow to be the best hitch available. It is a fine hitch, and I have not met anyone who owns one that regrets spending the almost $3000 they cost. Like the Pull Rite, you will not need a sway control for this either.

You will want to stay away from a friction bar type sway control on a trailer that long.

Hope this helps, and welcome to the club.

Tim


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Welcome to the forum and good luck with whatever camper you decide to buy.

We bought ours 2 seasons ago and have put about 6k miles on ours over about 18 trips. We did have a couple issues in the beginning, a leaky bike door, a few broken screws, water heater short and the slide needed adjusting. I felt these were all minor and were repaired quickly by our dealer. Other than normal maintenance, which any coach will need, ours has been great.

Like mentioned above, the dealer is a very important part of any coach you buy, they are the ones who will be prepping your trailer and helping out with any problems or service, so a good one is key.

Mike


----------



## mjs518 (Oct 24, 2004)

Although I've only been outbacking for a short time I'd like to chime in as a happy owner. We love







our rig so far, and have had no major issues with the quality.
We are very happy with the floorplan for family use, and really feel like we are traveling in style! 
The added benefit of this forum is a big perk too!
Go For the Outback-you'll love it too!








Be leary of that dealer though-no sway control on a 28ft?


----------



## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

I'm sure you've seen some of my problems with the OUTBACK I own. I have had my share. Overall, between me, my service dept, and OUTBACK themselves, the issues have been resolved to my satisfaction. (I had more issues with my Service Dept than the trailer!) I expected some issues on such a new build/concept trailer...just as I expect them with my new truck.

We love this trailer. It puts a smile on my face evertime I go in it.









Welcome, and happy camping!


----------



## joshfrantz (Nov 30, 2004)

Wow! What great information! I am very appreciative of all of your input.

To answer a few questions, a live ina very rural area (Red Bluff, California is two hours north of Sacramento and two hours south of the Oregon border.) The closer dealer is in Sacramento, but the best price I could get from them for an '05 was $21k OTD. The next closest dealer is Ingram RV in Eugene Oregon. It is a solid 4 hour drive. I called Keystone about other possible service locations and they told me about a semi-truck repair place that fixes RV's and is under contract with Keystone. They are on my drive to work, so if they can actually fix whatever issues pop-up, I should be in good shape. Has anyone ever used a service (non-dealer) facility to get in-warranty repairs?

The hitch is definetly NOT one of the "good" ones taked about in this thread. It is a Pull-rite weight distribution hitch only (costs about $330 from what I have seen on the internet). I think I am okay with this, however, because I will not be using my current truck (Chevy 1500 Xcab with poor axle ratio; only ~4600 lbs towing capacity) to pull the coach. For the next 3 or 4 months I will be borrowing my Dad's Chevy 3500 Express van until I buy a Diesel Excursion. I think it makes more sense to put the heavy duty Hensley or similiar setup on the Excursion when I get it instead of moving it from one vehicle to another. Having said that, and knowing now that I will only have a simple weight distribution system on the rig, should I add a simple friction sway control bar? Or am I better off without? I cannot get the dealer to throw anything else in (sway bar, additional hitch work, brake controllers), so anything else I do will come out of my already depleted pocket.

The following link is one of many negative threads I have found on the "Open Road Forums".

http://www.trailerlife.com/forums/index.cf...sg/13413949.cfm

Yes, most of the negative comments come from guys who only pull 5ers with diesel dually's. It is still disconcerting to read some of the major issues that it seems like many have had.

Nevertheless, I DID BUY THE OUTBACK TODAY! It is official and I thank you all for your help. I also look forward to participating in an Outbackers event and meeting some of you!

__________________________________________________________________
NEW INFO ----
The hitch is NOT a "Pull-Rite", but a "Draw Tite" (I confused the two similiar names). Two VERY different things, I know!


----------



## Twins Make 4 (Apr 25, 2004)

Congratulations Josh,

We also have a 28 rss purchased just this last May & have been nothing less than thrilled. We've been out 7 times, including a week long trip in July & 4 nights just over Thanksgiving. The only issues have been a little molding needing to be reglued and a small leak in the bathroom sink. The dealer has it now for a couple days to take care of those items. I can only heartily concur with all the other comments you've read. Stay tuned to this forum, there are some pretty bright people here with a lot of good ideas. As a 1st time RV owner, it has helped me immensely.

Have fun & welcome to Outbackers.









Twins Make 4


----------



## joshfrantz (Nov 30, 2004)

I went to the Reese website and it looks like I can add a dual cam sway bar setup for about $150 (not including install). That seems to make sense, unless it is not compatible with the Draw-tite hitch weight distribution setup????


----------



## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

If I'm not mistaken Draw-Tite is either owned by, built by or a subsidiary of Reese. I'm pretty sure you can add the dual cam to this unit. However, give that $150 to your dealer and you will be real close to paying for the Dual Cam HP system anyway. I would consider doing it with the HP system right off the bat if you are able.

Congrats on the new trailer and we are all here to help when the time comes.


----------



## joshfrantz (Nov 30, 2004)

What does the "HP" in "Dual Cam HP" stand for?


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

California Jim is correct in that Reese and Draw-Tite are one and the same, and most of their products are interchangable.

The Dual Cam HP (High Performance) is marketed under both names, so it should match up. Reese/Draw-Tite improved the design of the original Dual Cam, and named it the HP. If you look on the Reese web page, you can see pictures of both the original and the HP. Depending on which WD hitch your dealer is giving you, you might have to get different spring bars, but the HP should work.



> I think it makes more sense to put the heavy duty Hensley or similiar setup on the Excursion when I get it instead of moving it from one vehicle to another.


The Hensley connects to the TV through the hitch receiver, like any other hitch, and is permantly mounted on the trailer A frame. I don't think there would be any major difficultly in moving it to a new tow vehicle. There are one or two members here that have them, and hopefully one of them can chime in with specifics.

No matter what you get for a hitch, I would not recommend towing a 29'+ long TT without sway control.

Tim


----------



## CamperDC (Oct 30, 2003)

Jim has a good point. I would go with the HP if you can swing it.

Either way, congratulations on the new TT and Welcome to Outbackers. This is a great site.

Happy Camping


----------



## summergames84 (Mar 6, 2004)

Hey, Josh:
Welcome to Outback ownership and to the forum. We have a 28RLS and love it. We have had only VERY minor problems, mostly because the dealer didn't do proper set up, not Keystone. Our Outback felt like "home" from the first time we set foot in it. In fact, we were 'Just looking' and ended up purchasing on a cold, rainy day. We took a 17 day vacation in May and had a blast.

You will find most of the folks on the forum know more about hitches, Outbacks, etc than dealers. And so willing to help out! Glad you joined us.


----------



## joshfrantz (Nov 30, 2004)

summergames84 said:


> Hey, Josh:
> Welcome to Outback ownership and to the forum. We have a 28RLS and love it. We have had only VERY minor problems, mostly because the dealer didn't do proper set up, not Keystone. Our Outback felt like "home" from the first time we set foot in it. In fact, we were 'Just looking' and ended up purchasing on a cold, rainy day. We took a 17 day vacation in May and had a blast.
> 
> You will find most of the folks on the forum know more about hitches, Outbacks, etc than dealers. And so willing to help out! Glad you joined us.
> [snapback]19519[/snapback]​


summergames84 - Thanks for the info. Could I ask exactly what "proper set up" the "dealer did not do"? I would like to make sure the dealer I am using covers those bases before I drive it home 4+ hours away.


----------



## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Welcome to Outbackers, Josh! I think you will be happy with your purchase. I have a 28F RLS and had a whole list of problems that we had noted. I was set to take the rig to the dealer and was reviewing the list when it dawned on me that 90% of the items were not a very big deal. They certainly weren't anything for me to worry about. I think most rigs have some small problems, but that's just it, they are small -- mostly very small. I read the link you put in for "that other forum" and noted that the guy with the problem had 7 kids. 7 kids could be really, really tough on any rv. I wonder if that was a contributor to his problems.


----------



## starry-eyed (Oct 3, 2004)

Josh, you will love the beauty of your new Outback! Just to let you know, however, we have had major problems with leaking in ours. I am about the most optimistic person you will ever meet and I don't post at (or really like) RV.net, but I hope you can avoid the same troubles we have gone through with our 2002 25RSS. Our trailer is out of warranty and it is really painful to deal with this continuing issue.

That said, I can tell you that we would buy another and hope for better luck next time! We have, in fact, fallen in love with the new Sydney 30RLS and hope to be able to upgrade our tow vehicle and buy it next year. We have been at the dealer's lot the last three weeks in a row, and have looked at two Sydney trailers and one Sydney 5er. Of the three, two had evidence of leaks two weeks ago after our heavy rains. One trailer leaked at the couch slide closest to the entertainment center, and the Fifth wheel leaked somewhere behind the kitchen, which caused soaking of the carpet across from it. For this reason, I don't really buy the contention that the leaking problems affected only the early models and have been successfully dealt with.

We plan to aggressively pursue water testing before we buy one again, and suggest that you do the same. Good luck....I don't think you can find a prettier camper!


----------



## JimMcCombe (Apr 3, 2004)

Josh,

Our trailer is 18 months old and has spent a total of 3 months at the dealership waiting on repairs. That said, I would buy another Outback in a heartbeat. The problems have been minor (lose roof panels), to severe (broken leaf springs and slide out), to stupid (water leaks due to mis-routed drain tube on the fridge), but in every case, the dealership and the folks at Keystone have stepped up to the plate and done the right thing.

In the end, you should buy what you like, and what you find comfortable. For the money, weight and features, it is very difficult to beat the Outback. Also keep in mind that the RV industry in general had a huge increase in demand after 9/11, fueled by a decrease in air travel and lower interest rates. The manufacturers simply could not keep up, and that was bound to cause some quality issues. The industry has recovered from that over the past year.

My family and I stop by the dealer about once a month, and I've noticed the quality on the newer units has been improving greatly--that shows me that Keystone is listening and making improvements.

Forums are a wonderful thing. They provide a sounding board for ideas, and a vast array of information. Unfortunately, some of them (present company excluded) tend to be negative. I think one of the best things about buying an Outback is Outbackers.com. It's a great community, with excellent moderators.

Some of our best family times have been in our Outback. Welcome to the forum, and all the best with your new RV....

Jim


----------



## Ymryl (Mar 2, 2004)

Josh,
Congrats on the new unit! I'm glad to see that you listened to what actual owners of Outbacks had to say rather than the few individuals on that "other forum". I'm sure you ill love your Outback just as much as the rest of us. As many have said, perhaps the best thing about being an "Outbacker" is this forum and the people on it that will go out of their way to help you in any way they can.









I read the posting that you linked to "over there". I find it interesting to note that the individual posted several times in one day and then never posted again - last February. I wonder what ended up happening to that unit?

Wish I could offer some advise on the hitch, but the only experience I have is with the single friction anti-sway Reese that we had on the 21RS and the Equal-i-er that we have now on the 28RS-S (which BTW is a really awesome piece of hardware). Sounds like the rest of the guys have you on the right track however, so I'll just stay out of it and wish you the best with your purchase.

Make sure you mention the forum to your dealer, perhaps he'll mention it to future potential customers after you buy. I know I have put the bug in the ear of my dealer every time I have visited...


----------



## joshfrantz (Nov 30, 2004)

Based on what I have learned from all of you TT Guru's, I have told the dealer to install the following:

1. The Draw-Tite WD as mentioned (I think they have already put it on)
2. A Reese Dual-Cam HP sway control system
3. A Reese 5500 Digital brake controller

If I am missing something, let me know.

I have also learned that stuff happens with these things. Seeing as I am driving 4 hours to pick it up, I will be staying in and around the location of the dealer for 2 or 3 days before driving back to hopefully "Work out" any of the small bugs before driving home.

Thanks again for all you help! What a great resource! I just hope to be able to contribute to other needy Outbackers sometime in the near future.


----------



## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Josh,

Welcome to Outbackers!! action

I'm not one of the gurus, but I sure like "talking" with them and listening to their advice.

I know you'll enjoy your Outback.

Welcome.

Mark


----------



## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Good Deal Josh.

Just out of curosity, why the Reese brake controller? I haven't heard much about these and don't know any good or bad info. Don't get me wrong, it's probably fine if Reese puts their name on it.

You're kind of in the same boat as me when I got my trailer. I really didn't know much about the equipment to be selected and relied on the good faith and guidance of my dealer.

Fortunately my dealer put in a good sway control but I was a little dissapointed with the brake controller. Only after the sale did I discover that I would have preferred the Prodigy controller. It really is as good as they say. It sells for only $99 online so having your dealer "upgrade" you shouldn't cost much. Something to consider.

Lastly, if you are buying in the S-Cal area I would be happy to help you get set-up before you hit the road. I have done this before for others here on the board and am getting fairly good at getting that dual cam system working well. Shoot me a PM if you are interested.

Good Luck


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Josh,
I don't know what you're experience with TTs might be but I'd recommend that while you are still in the area around the dealer that you see if you can find a large parking lot and if you have some orange cones or equivalent, use them to mark a spot in the the lot for practicing corners and backing/parking. It gives you a good idea for when you go comaping and in my case, gave me some idea of how well my 'support crew' was at helping me back up and park (let's just say we ALL neede the practice







).

Don't forget the mirrors! A good set will make the difference if that 3500 van doesn't have extendable mirrors.

Otherwise, welcome to Outbackers and the family of Outback owners. Sounds like you'll be a good fit!

Brian


----------



## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Yeah BBB hit it on the head! When I first got my rig, I didn't have any trouble because I was being extra careful. It was the 2nd time out that got me when I let my guard down a little.

I forgot I was dragging 28' of extra stuff behind me and I came off a dirt road getting ready to make a right hand turn. I came up to the turn normally, which for me means cutting it short. Oops! That would have put my 5's wheels into the ditch, so I had to wait for both lanes of traffic to clear out so I could swing wide.


----------



## JimBo (Oct 20, 2003)

Congrats on the 28bhs!! you will love it as much as we love ours I hope.


----------



## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Congrats on the new Outback and welcome to the Outbackers!

On the Brake controller I wouldn't go with a time delayed controller which I think the 5500 is. As for a Tekonsha PRODIGY Brake Controller which is a Proportional controller, its night and day difference.

Enjoy the drive up to Eugene, my home town! Watch out for the granola greeners though!


----------



## joshfrantz (Nov 30, 2004)

California Jim said:


> Good Deal Josh.
> 
> Just out of curosity, why the Reese brake controller? I haven't heard much about these and don't know any good or bad info. Don't get me wrong, it's probably fine if Reese puts their name on it.
> 
> ...


Jim - Thanks for the offer of help. I lived in so-cal for 20 years and had to "escape" to No Cal, so I try to stay away as much as possible (if nothing else the traffic drives me bonkers!). An RV delaer in Colton had the Outback I wanted at a very good price, I just didn't want to go to SoCal to pick it up. YOU ARE SO KIND THO!

As far as the brake controller is concerned, I am actually getting that put on here before I go up to pick up the TT. The only place I could find in town to do it carries only Reese controllers. I think I will order a Prodigy, as many have recommmended, and have them put it on the TV when I pick up the TT.

Again, you guys have certainly saved me some headache! Thank you SO MUCH!


----------



## borntorv (Apr 13, 2004)

Josh,

Congrats on your purchase. I'm confident you'll enjoy your new TT just as we have. It truly is a great design but in the end it's up to you to put the "fun" into camping.

You've gotten a lot of good/accurate advice already so there's not much more for me to add. I'm glad you opted for sway control as it is worth it's weight in keeping you calm on the road.

Hope to hear from you often on this great site and look forward to hearing of your experiences.

Happy trails,

Greg


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

When I took our 21RS in for some warranty work over a year ago, the service manager said he was taking an informal poll.

His question was, if your out camping, and something goes wrong with your camper, do you let it ruin the trip, or do you just deal with it and try to forget about it and have a good time?

My answer was to deal with it and forget about it. The camper can always be fixed, I'm out there to have a good time with my family and enjoy myself. I'll worry about fixing my quarters later.

Mike


----------

