# What Brand Pop-up For A Beginner



## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Greetings Outbackers!

Especially those of you who came first from pop-up trailer land. What model did you have? Would you reccomend? We have a family of friends who are interested in getting started camping and only have a Sienna mini-van to tow with. They're good sports and seem in good spirits about camping in a pop-up and the limitations.

The Sienna has a tow limit of 3500#, 119" wheelbase, and 230HP.

They have two small children ages 7 and 3 with no more expected.

So whatcha think?


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

If I was to return to a pop up, the number one thing I would get is one with a shower and toilet. There are not many with the shower but with kids it is easier to clean them in the trailer than the campground facilities.

My brother in law has the Coleman Niagra which he loves. When I bought the hybrid I actually had my mind set on a Viking pop up model with the shower.

John


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

The probelm is that you are asking us to mentally to go from a Porsche back to a Volkswagen .. LOL

My pop-up that I had for a mere 6 months had a toilet and A/C in it -- the bad part was that you had to have everyone leave the pop-up to use the toilet which was also the bench you set on for the dinner table... as you can imagine it got tiresome everytime one of the kids in the middle of the night had to go to the bathroom -- and you also got use to sleeping with your pillow over your face/nose at times...

Instead of being a friend and putting them in a pop-up why not be a real friend and put them in a new Outback and a NEW TV --


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## kk5fe (Mar 6, 2005)

Hey CJ, action

We had a Coleman Seqouia which may be on the high side of what the tow limits are. The specs are about 2995 unloaded. We towed it at the time with a full size van. I think it is one of there biggest models. It even has a toilet and shower (hard walled) You can see it here.

We had a ball in it, but wanted something bigger.... you know the drill. I have to say that I miss the king size beds! shy

Any of the Colemans are good campers. Just depends on the size they want. They can probably find a good used pop-up for a great price too if they want to go that route.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

A used Coleman would be fine but it does need a good inspection by some one that knows what to look for. As a starter we purchased a 2000 Coleman Mesa new in 1999 as my DW does not like used anything but it was a good trailer. If they are only going to be in it a year or two it takes a big hit on value so might as well let someone else take the hit.


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## 7heaven (Jun 4, 2005)

We started with a used Palomino Mustang and loved it. It had hard sides, which gave more of a travel trailer feel. The smaller ones would probably work great.

http://www.palominorv.com/palomino/site/de...model=mustangxl

We actually sold it two years later for more than we paid for it......


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## hurricaneplumber (Apr 12, 2004)

I had a 1999 Coleman Mesa with dual king beds, no ac, portable toilet. The thing that we miss the most about the Outback is all of the fresh air you can get by opening up all of the popup windows.

I was recently at our popup dealer, things sur have changed for the better in a few years.

I would highly recommend getting the front storage compartment, definitely a must.

I towed with a 1996 Dodge Grand Caravan with 3.8L V6 with tow package and load leveling suspension, worked very nice it had a 3500lb limit also, as do most minivans with the larger motor.

I still have the portable toilet, Bal tire leveler (brand new), complete Reese weight distributing hitch with sway control. I haven't been able to find a popup owner that would want it yet.

Good luck

Kevin


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## Golden Mom (Apr 25, 2004)

We had a Coleman Cheyenne. IMO, Coleman have such a good "name" they are easier to resell. I.E. We bought ours for $6000, used it for 6 years, and resold it for $4000. We had a storage unit in the front which is great. You can get almost everything it in. Also having A/C was a must for us. It also helped on the resell value. You should be able to find a good deal this time of year.

Have a great day! sunny


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## MaeJae (May 12, 2005)

We came from pop-up land...We had a Coleman NIAGARA
One of the heaviest pop-ups out there! Not for a van to tow.

I would recomend one of their lower end, lighter models...
and with kids the shower was a must.

My girfriend and 3 of her 4 sisters have Vikings...they are in great shape.

It depends on how good you take care of things.
Popping it back up after an outing to "dry" things out.

Good luck sunny 
MaeJae


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

We started out with a Viking that was just great to us.
There was no toilet in it and not sure I would want that or a shower in there.
I will say that a fridge, A/c, and furnace are all options that you cannot live without. Even with all the canvas, our furnace kept us toasty in temps down in the 20's. The weight on that thing was only around 2K.
I still miss it sometimes.


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

We had a PALOMINO MXL RL. (hard side or Fold-a-wall to be exact)
No toilet (used a porta-potty), no A/C, but had a great furnace.

No real problems with it.


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## aantolik (Apr 8, 2005)

We had 4 Coleman's over about 30 years. Raised three children & partially raised 5 grandchildren in one. Best popup as far as we're concerned. Even after Fleetwood took over, they seem to be a good solid value. You can find cheaper, but you can't find better IMHO.


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

Jim,

We used to have a 2000 Coleman Niagara and it was a very nice trailer but much too heavy for a Sienna. I think most of the newer 12ft Coleman trailers with a front storage box would be pushing the capability of the Sienna especially on some of the mountain passes they are likely to encounter in California. Also they should be careful with any of the Colemans between 1996 and 2003 with the ABS roof. They are prone to various types of failure (sag, bowing, cracking, etc.) that would be expensive to fix. I spent $850 even with the warranty to have mine replace with the newer style non-ABS roof prior to selling it because it was sagging and bowing. You can find all kinds of information on popups at www.popupexplore.com, I used to go there all the time until I started shopping for the Outback and found Outbackers.com.
A friend of mine recently got a used 1995 Jayco 1206 that has the shower/potti combo and he tows it with a Honda Odyssey which is very similar to the Sienna in towing capability. That model Jayco was made from the early 90s to about 97 and is a very nice trailer. They weigh about 1,700lbs empty so they are well suited for towing by a minivan and have a nice layout for a family with just 2 kids. My friend has 4 and they somehow manage to fit in there. Most of the Jaycos also use hydraulic surge brakes so you don't have to bother wiring up a brake controller.
Last Sunday while I was on a bicycle ride south of Lancaster through a small town called Green Valley I noticed two popups that looked like they were for sale. One was a Starcraft and the other a Jayco and they looked to be in good shape. Green Valley is about 20 miles north of Valencia along San Francisquito Canyon road. I'll be riding there again this weekend so if you'd like I can stop and take a look if they're still out.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Another vote for the Coleman here! We had a Nevada (only made for one year), 10 ft box plus front 'trunk', inside cassette toilet, one king / one double.

Was a great little rig, and towed great behind our Grand Caravan with similar capabilities.

Sure did get small though, once our second little one arrived!

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Seems like Coleman is the former choice of most Outbackers.

We also came from a Coleman pop-up. We had a Utah-CP (CP meant Cassette Potty). Our had the potty inside and a slide out dinette. This was a HUGE plus for our pop-up as the slide out gave us a LOT more room. The king sized bed on on the Colemen is also a huge plus. Not sure how many models have the storage compartment up front, but ours did and we could pack a ton of stuff in there. Only problem was you had to get it all out prior to pulling the bed out.









I would highly recommend a Colemen over any other pop-up. As far as not having a shower inside, it was very easy to snake the outside shower into the pop-up, by the dinette and then give the boys a quick shower.


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## east-tn-outbacker (Jul 21, 2005)

We had a 97 Rockwood pop-up with a 12' box for a few yrs. Never had any problems with it. No shower or toilet, but as far as quality if I was in the market for a pop-up I'd check out the Rockwoods again.


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## Morrowmd (Feb 22, 2005)

We had a Camplite with a large dinette slide, it slid out about 3'. One of the few things I miss about our popup is you could feed 6 people easily at the table.

We had bunches of fun in that trailer!

-Matt


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## GenesRUs (Oct 11, 2004)

We had a new Viking from 2002-2004. Was the least expensive brand in our area. Looked great on the outside - was held together by staples on the inside! I'm surprised it lasted one trip without falling apart. As new camper buyers, we never thought to look under cushions and in storage areas to see how well it was built. Towards the end we had lots of electrical problems. I'd recommend a different brand.


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## glennsteers (Apr 25, 2005)

Here's a travel trailer they can tow with a Sienna:

Trail Manor

They're nice, but start around 20K! For that price I'd upgrade my TV and get an Outback. Oh wait, that's what we did!! LOL


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## Sidewinder (Feb 25, 2005)

CJ,

We moved up from a Coleman Niagara, too.

It was a great camper and held it's value well for resale, but I would NOT recommend towing it with a minivan. The Niagaras have a toilet/shower which is GREAT for kids, but it is HEAVY for a pop-up.

You said your friends have small kids -- do NOT let them buy one that does not have a toilet of some sort. I can't tell you how many times I woke up in the middle of the night to the sound of my little girls "going potty" I was so glad that that sound did not require me to go for a hike across the campgroun to the nearest Bath house.

The shower was also REALLY nice to have for the kids. I never took a shower in it but my wife and kids used it every time!

Also, as others have stated, the front storage area was very nice to have. It allows you to store your chairs and hoses and such in the camper all year.

Sidewinder


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

WOW - great replys all







A wealth of info for sure!

*MJRey:* Thank you very much for your kind offer to do a drive by. I'm not sure of their timing on the purchase so please don't go out of your way at this time. But thanks! You're another example of what makes this place so nice to visit









*hurricaneplumber:* Kevin, if they end up needing all the items you have I'll PM you for more info. Thanks!

Thanks again all for your replies. Keep em coming if there are more out there who would like to add their thoughts. I'll be printing this topic and giving it to our friends in the near future.


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## wingnut (Mar 21, 2005)

We moved up from a coleman Sedonia. We bought it new in 99 the price then was $4900. We added Roof air and a cassette pottie. It weighed in at 1836lbs dry packed. We hadthe three way frig and awning on it to. We towed with an S10 ext cab a coule of times and it did OK. But when the kiddo came we had to move up for cab space. King bed full bed set up.


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## RVCarolina (Jul 31, 2004)

I think we can all see where this is heading - A lot of us have "been-there-done-that". So with this in mind, why don't you save your friends a lot of time, aggravation and money. Tell them to skip the pop-up and the inadequate tow vehicle, and just go ahead and buy an Outback and a good 4-door truck.















Fred


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

RVCarolina said:


> I think we can all see where this is heading - A lot of us have "been-there-done-that". So with this in mind, why don't you save your friends a lot of time, aggravation and money. Tell them to skip the pop-up and the inadequate tow vehicle, and just go ahead and buy an Outback and a good 4-door truck.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ya know I'm trying







but like many of us it's a real big leap to get so deep into something you've never done before. I suppose that's why so many of us came through the pop-up ranks first


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## drobe5150 (Jan 21, 2005)

cal jim action 
we had a 1995 jayco 10ud, bought it brand new. in the almost 10 years we had it , only went back to dealer twice, both warranty related issues. we put almost 10 grand miles on it, still looked new when we sold, a plus was i kept it in my garage. i would recomend jayco popups anytime









darrel


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Jim first thing I'd suggest is encourage them to head over to PopUpTimes.com or their forum at arveeclub.com and read up on their.

I have owned a Coleman and though it was a good camper I am not sure I would highly recommend them now. My reason was that the Fleetwood/Coleman had problem with the roof, and rather than stand behind the product and replace it they took the cheap way out and offered a 'free' roof but the customer had to pay the $900 shipping. This was flaw in the design, and has since been changed but it left a very sour taste in my mouth.

The Fleetwood/Coleman line is also a very heavy line up, at a minimum a friction sway bar is required for the larger units.

The Coleman name has been sold so you won't find them since they are still in lawsuits, I think Coachman has the license but I don't think they are in production.

I think the Jayco and Viking both make a good popup that isn't as heavy as the Fleetwood lineup. But in the 4 years since I was involved in Popup camping, the group at PopupTimes will be the best at knowing the current status. I do believe that Viking sponsors the forum and even has factory staff that read and respond to posts, that is a huge statement to me.

Happy shopping!


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## LarryTheOutback (Jun 15, 2005)

Y-Guy said:


> The Coleman name has been sold so you won't find them since they are still in lawsuits, I think Coachman has the license but I don't think they are in production.
> [snapback]50565[/snapback]​


Coleman's were designed and manufactured by Fleetwood; the Coleman brand was used under license from Coleman. As I recall, Coleman wanted to ditch Fleetwood and go with another manufacturer (Coachman comes to mind). In the resulting legal spat, Coleman was prevented from using their brand for a non-Fleetwood trailer. Therefore the Coleman tent trailer brand is dead.

The trailers are still alive, however. The've been rebranded as Fleetwood, with little change. Others are correct that these trailers are starting to get a bit heavy. Our Coleman Sea Pine was difficult to tow with our Minivan.

That said, we LOVED our Coleman ("Howard"). The design and manufacturing quality was awsome ... puts Keystone to shame. The only reason we upgraded to the Outback was because we wanted to do more "off season" camping. Tent trailers have to be completely dried out between trips, which can be a bit of a problem in the winter in Oregon.

As to the roof, I think Y-Guy might be thinking of the older Coleman roofs with the seam. The newer (last 6 year) roofs are solid one-piece roofs that seem to never leak. I wish we had this roof on the Outback.

Ed


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## merlotman (Dec 28, 2004)

I will make my vote for the Palomino line. We had an XL with air, dinette slide and the cassette toilet but no shower(we dry camp most of the time) and it was a great trouble free unit and served us well. Lots of room for a popup and lots of storage. Quality was excellent for the price. We almost upgraded to the Palomino Mustang with the hard sides but the one we wanted sold before we got back to the dealer.


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

LarryTheOutback said:


> As to the roof, I think Y-Guy might be thinking of the older Coleman roofs with the seam. The newer (last 6 year) roofs are solid one-piece roofs that seem to never leak. I wish we had this roof on the Outback.


It wasn't that they leaked, it was that they began to sag pretty significantly. I've seen units with 1-2" bow in the middle. The one piece design was a good idea, except it wasn't structurally well designed. I don't know how their new aluma-tite (or something like that) roofs are doing.


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## LarryTheOutback (Jun 15, 2005)

Y-Guy said:


> It wasn't that they leaked, it was that they began to sag pretty significantly.
> [snapback]50586[/snapback]​


Ok. We never saw that behavior, and haven't in our friend's Coleman's either. Doesn't mean it doesn't occur.


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## MaeJae (May 12, 2005)

Ok...small hyjack off the topic title...







sorry shy

We had this exact problem with our 2000 NIAGARA. 
It was â€œroof sagâ€ which was prone to the â€œone-piece ABSâ€ roofs only.
More so with the large 12 ft. box.
When you looked at it, it seemed fine but if you looked a little closer you realized something was wrong.

If you inspect the â€œsidesâ€ of the camper when it is closed it looks as though the seal is not meeting correctly. It sort of comes away from the camper in the middle of the sides. If you think of it as a bowlâ€¦if you push on the top of a plastic bowl, 2 sides will sort of lift up as it is squatting outward. (Can you picture it?)

Anyway, when we sold ours, we couldnâ€™tâ€™ in good conscience let it go without replacing the roof.
When we listed it, we said we would replace the roof when a SERIOUS buyer was found. This meant we had a contract that included a non-refundable(on the buyers part) $550 deposit. This would be used to pay for the freight of the â€œFREEâ€ roof replacement. Everything went well the roof was replaced and we sold it. It
was the aluma-tite roof. Not nearly as "pretty" as the ABS though








Just before we sold it though, we noticed a small crack on the ABS on one of the sides right where there was a small gap with the seal.

But as far as â€œfreeâ€â€¦.um, yeahâ€¦ NOT.









P.S. the roof its self will not leak butâ€¦when you have a gap in the seal you can get water in while traveling while it is raining or wet.

Camp-on sunny 
MaeJae


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## qgallo (Jul 2, 2005)

I have had two Coleman popups. The biggest thing I miss is the KING size beds. Other than that I would talk your friend into a lightweight Hybrid. They have some nice ones now with low weights. Not near as much work, and much nicer . Good luck .


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## MaeJae (May 12, 2005)

KING beds...Ahhhh I loved that!









We wouldn't go back though!

Camp-on sunny
MaeJae


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## 7heaven (Jun 4, 2005)

If it works on your model, doing the king bed mod on the slide out isn't too difficult.


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

CJ,

Just a thought..........I think there are a couple of Outback wannabes that are trying to sell their popups. Hmmmm...







maybe you can help them all out by putting them together.

Mark


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