# Adding Inverter



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

I'm interested in adding an after market inverter to our Outback. With the addition of four 15W solar panels, I'm now looking to add an inverter that will allow us to power up stuff like coffee pot, charge cell phones, iPads, kids gaming devices, etc.

I have a cheap one I use in the car, but it isn't really meant for a dedicated device.

I have my eye on the Xantrex PROwatt SW Inverter product line. I leaning toward the 1000w version, but wanted to get some feed back from this group on my choice.

Here is a link to the Xantrex site for this product line.
http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/297/p/1/pt/8/product.asp

Next question...Once I have the inverter, how hard is is to tap into the Outback power unit for DC power? I'd like to have this around the kitchen area, so running a line directly to the batteries is a bit of a challenge. Anyone already do this installation and have a few pictures or words to advice?


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## Dan Borer (Feb 6, 2009)

Here is a re-post of what I plan to do: The reference to "possibly one more" actually is the GFI circuit.

Posted 21 March 2010 - 05:54 PM

We do some dry camping too and I have given thought as to how to get inverter power to my outlets too. While I haven't purchased the desired inverter yet, I did do a dry run to test my theory with my 750 watt inverter. What I came up with powers all of the outlets where one would usually plug in the TV, DVR or other entertainment device but not the outlets for high power devices such as the water heater, microwave or A/C.

I don't have my trailer here so I may not have all the details correct since I am doing this from memory, but if you open up your electrical panel you will find your AC breakers. In looking at the labels on the breakers you'll find one for the A/C, one for the water heater, one for the microwave, one for the recept/con and possibly one more. The one that drew my interest is the one labelled 'recept/con' for recepticals and converter. I pull out the converter and pull the cover off to access the breakers from the back side and find two wires on the output side of the 'recept/con' breaker, one to the converter and one to the recepticals. I remove the line to the recepticals and tighten the screw to secure the line to the converter.

Next step was to tap the inverter input lines to the 12V lines into the electrical panel for power to the inverter. I connect the inverter output neutral to the neutral block behind the converter cover and the hot to the previously disconnected line for the recepticals. Flip on the inverter switch and power is now flowing to all the recepticals throughout the trailer that were controlled by the 'recept/con' breaker. The high current circuits with their own breakers are still without current.

I then plug in the shore power to power up the high current circuits, including the converter. With the inverter off the recepticals are dead because they have been removed from the circuit. Flip on the inverter and everything is powered up. The inverter is now has indefinite run time because it is running off the batteries that are being charged by the converter/charger.

Next step for me is to get an appropriate inverter and permanently hard-wire everything to provide proper circuit protection.


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## Dan Borer (Feb 6, 2009)

Or you can replace your current converter with one of these.......

http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=818&txtModelID=178


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

I'll be watching this too. I have a 2KW inverter, but have resisted the work required to run new 12V lines of sufficient gauge...


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

I should note, I'm only trying to get one location (in kitchen) equipped with the new inverter. I am not trying to have all the plugs live from the inverter....we don't have a need for that.


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

Where is your converter located in the 301BQ?


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## jozway (Jan 28, 2008)

your gonna need to run that directly back to your batteries. And make sure you size the wire accordingaly.


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## alpine (Apr 23, 2010)

If I could chime in on this topic having used solar power at my inlaws cottage for a number of years I think a 1000 watt inverter may be a little overworked 
if you plan to use a coffeemaker. I had an 1800 watt Xantrex xpower and would only run a B&D single cup coffeemaker and it would always chirp the overload alarm
when it started up and I had to make sure the small bar fridge was unplugged. The other fact I have learned is that the wires run from the batteries to the inverter 
has to be as short and as large as possible. The cottage had 00 welding cable less than 5 feet long. That means your inverter should be on the front of the trailer 
with your batteries.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

thefulminator said:


> Where is your converter located in the 301BQ?


Right below the oven...next to the refrigerator. (see pic)


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

When I had to do some 12v wiring on my Jayco popup, I tried to find wire similar to what they had used in the factory. What I ended up using was low voltage wire for landscape lighting. It is 2 wire for 12v applications and has a very heavy UV resistant sheath for direct burial. I found it in various gauges up through 12 if I remember correctly, by the foot at Home Depot. If you are needing to run the wire under the floor, this stuff would be pretty forgiving if it needed to be exposed to the elements.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

thefulminator said:


> When I had to do some 12v wiring on my Jayco popup, I tried to find wire similar to what they had used in the factory. What I ended up using was low voltage wire for landscape lighting. It is 2 wire for 12v applications and has a very heavy UV resistant sheath for direct burial. I found it in various gauges up through 12 if I remember correctly, by the foot at Home Depot. If you are needing to run the wire under the floor, this stuff would be pretty forgiving if it needed to be exposed to the elements.


Doubt that could feed a 1000W inverter. That beast will be drawing 83 Amps at max power!!!


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

I say Dodge CTD is the only way to go.

Oops not on topic, sorry couldn't resist.









Sounds like a good mod, but I just put a basic 450 watt in my trailer wired to power two outlets for the entertainment center TV and to charge the portable radios. It also does fine with iPods and the like.


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

Yup, that's a little high. In that case, what size 12V wire does the instructions with the inverter recommend? Sounds like he is going to need at least AWG6. That's pretty hefty stuff.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

thefulminator said:


> Yup, that's a little high. In that case, what size 12V wire does the instructions with the inverter recommend? Sounds like he is going to need at least AWG6. That's pretty hefty stuff.


Xantrex recommends a size 0 cable with a maximum cable length of 6 feet. That is the problem...I can't get to the battery in 6 feet.	I want to grab power from the back of the Outbacks converter. Not possible???​


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## jozway (Jan 28, 2008)

You could install another battery closer to the convertor and run wires to your solar charger


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## alpine (Apr 23, 2010)

Oregon_Camper said:


> Yup, that's a little high. In that case, what size 12V wire does the instructions with the inverter recommend? Sounds like he is going to need at least AWG6. That's pretty hefty stuff.


Xantrex recommends a size 0 cable with a maximum cable length of 6 feet. That is the problem...I can't get to the battery in 6 feet.	I want to grab power from the back of the Outbacks converter. Not possible???​
[/quote]

Its possible, just don't plan to run anything too high powered.


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## TwoElkhounds (Mar 11, 2007)

In my 25RSS, my converter had a spare +12V lug on it and there was a ground bus mounted to the floor in compartment behind the converter. I mounted my 1000 W inverter in the cabinet next to the converter and used these lugs. The 12VDC cable run was about 12" so the expense and trouble of running large cable was eliminated. I installed two 120VAC outlets on opposite ends of the trailer to run things like the TV and computers. I have used it for coffee as well, but not too often. It is a very nice mod, especially if you dry camp a lot like us.

HERE is my post on this mod. It seems you want something very similar.

DAN


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

Oregon_Camper said:


> Yup, that's a little high. In that case, what size 12V wire does the instructions with the inverter recommend? Sounds like he is going to need at least AWG6. That's pretty hefty stuff.


Xantrex recommends a size 0 cable with a maximum cable length of 6 feet. That is the problem...I can't get to the battery in 6 feet.	I want to grab power from the back of the Outbacks converter. Not possible???​
[/quote]

So let's break this down a little more. The manual says size 0 at no more than six feet. If I remember correctly, the wire on my trailer from the batteries to the converter is around a size 4. If you can't pull the size 0 wire you need for the amps from the battery to the inverter, you are going to try to get the amps you need off the back of the converter which is connected to the batteries with size 4 at way more than six feet? That doesn't add up. I think you need to run the big wire directly to the batteries if you want this to work. Couldn't you go through the floor, unfasten the underbelly and run it down the trailer I-beam coming out at the tongue? If you came out through the underbelly, you could run it in plastic conduit similar to how the gas line is run. Not trying to be negative, just want to be sure it makes sense.


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## alpine (Apr 23, 2010)

thefulminator said:


> Yup, that's a little high. In that case, what size 12V wire does the instructions with the inverter recommend? Sounds like he is going to need at least AWG6. That's pretty hefty stuff.


Xantrex recommends a size 0 cable with a maximum cable length of 6 feet. That is the problem...I can't get to the battery in 6 feet.	I want to grab power from the back of the Outbacks converter. Not possible???​
[/quote]

So let's break this down a little more. The manual says size 0 at no more than six feet. If I remember correctly, the wire on my trailer from the batteries to the converter is around a size 4. If you can't pull the size 0 wire you need for the amps from the battery to the inverter, you are going to try to get the amps you need off the back of the converter which is connected to the batteries with size 4 at way more than six feet? That doesn't add up. I think you need to run the big wire directly to the batteries if you want this to work. Couldn't you go through the floor, unfasten the underbelly and run it down the trailer I-beam coming out at the tongue? If you came out through the underbelly, you could run it in plastic conduit similar to how the gas line is run. Not trying to be negative, just want to be sure it makes sense.
[/quote]

Your converter is taking 110 and changing it to 12 volts and charging the batteries and running lights etc. not a heavy load. The inverter is taking 12 volts and changing it to 110 and in the case of a coffee maker or toaster having to get the power instantly. If the wire is too small or too long the inverter will not get the power quickly enough and shut itself down. The other problem is the batteries. A large battery bank will help compensate, something we can't do on a trailer.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

TwoElkhounds said:


> In my 25RSS, my converter had a spare +12V lug on it and there was a ground bus mounted to the floor in compartment behind the converter. I mounted my 1000 W inverter in the cabinet next to the converter and used these lugs. The 12VDC cable run was about 12" so the expense and trouble of running large cable was eliminated. I installed two 120VAC outlets on opposite ends of the trailer to run things like the TV and computers. I have used it for coffee as well, but not too often. It is a very nice mod, especially if you dry camp a lot like us.
> 
> HERE is my post on this mod. It seems you want something very similar.
> 
> DAN


For the plugs you added, is that a typical power cord plugged into the inverter and then cut off to attach to a new plug?

The inverters I'm seeing have actual plugs, not a location for romex. Just wondering how you took the power from the inverter to the new electrical box.


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## TwoElkhounds (Mar 11, 2007)

Oregon_Camper said:


> In my 25RSS, my converter had a spare +12V lug on it and there was a ground bus mounted to the floor in compartment behind the converter. I mounted my 1000 W inverter in the cabinet next to the converter and used these lugs. The 12VDC cable run was about 12" so the expense and trouble of running large cable was eliminated. I installed two 120VAC outlets on opposite ends of the trailer to run things like the TV and computers. I have used it for coffee as well, but not too often. It is a very nice mod, especially if you dry camp a lot like us.
> 
> HERE is my post on this mod. It seems you want something very similar.
> 
> DAN


For the plugs you added, is that a typical power cord plugged into the inverter and then cut off to attach to a new plug?

The inverters I'm seeing have actual plugs, not a location for romex. Just wondering how you took the power from the inverter to the new electrical box.
[/quote]

I used appliance cords and plugged them directly into the inverter outlet. I ran the other end of the cords to the electric outlets and made the connection there. The cords are routed through the cabinet and are accessible so I did not feel a permanent installation using Romex was required.

My inverter has a total of four outlets, I used two of them. One appliance cord goes the the outlet in the front of the trailer (kids bunk house) and the other goes to the main living area. It is nice to be able to power up stuff from the inverter without having to run cords all over the trailer.

DAN


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## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

ok so after months of VERY CONFUSING reading, PM's and talking with an assortment of sales people I bought this beauty  for Stacey as a combination birthday/anniversary gift! After next Wednesday (our anniversary) I'll report back on whether it will power his beloved Kuerig machine!! (May have a report sooner if it keeps raining and we decide to go camping cuz we can't plant or excavate in mud soup!!) If it does work we will be hitting some local State Parks!!


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

ember said:


> ok so after months of VERY CONFUSING reading, PM's and talking with an assortment of sales people I bought this beauty for Stacey as a combination birthday/anniversary gift! After next Wednesday (our anniversary) I'll report back on whether it will power his beloved Kuerig machine!! (May have a report sooner if it keeps raining and we decide to go camping cuz we can't plant or excavate in mud soup!!) If it does work we will be hitting some local State Parks!!


Looking forward to your trip report.


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

I know this thread is almost a year old, but I came across it while reading pros & cons of the 301bq. I've done two of these mods in the past, and the most important part is getting the inverter as close to the batteries as possible. My last project used a Xantrex 1800 watt inverter with auto-transfer switch and I used 2/0 welding cable with a total length (to and from the inverter) of about 12 feet. The best spot I've found to place the inverter is in the front pass-through compartment, or in the storage space under the front bunks (if you have them). The big inverters can pull more than 100 amps and will quickly melt wire that's too small (been there). Don't forget a battery disconnect and a big fuse between the batteries and the inverter. Once you find a good spot for the inverter, you can then run Romex to it and hardwire it into your electrical system, or just use extension cords if that suits you. The 110 volt AC power doesn't have the same limitations that 12 volt DC power does, so you can use longer runs.

On my last project, I split the bus bar in the electrical panel (cut out a 1/8" piece) and created a "sub panel" for the inverter. I added a 20 amp breaker to the "main" panel that fed power to the inverter's 120 volt input. The output from the inverter went to another 20 amp breaker on the "sub panel" and became the main which supplied the subpanel. I moved breakers around so that only the outlets and microwave were on the subpanel and the A/C, converter and water heater were on the main panel. Under normal conditions when plugged into shore power, electricity flows through the inverter and goes to the subpanel, powering the outlets. When shore power is not present or is interrupted, the inverter kicks in instantly to provide electricity to the subpanel and the outlets. The relay is so fast that you don't even see a hiccup on the television or whatever. Kind of a long-winded explanation, but I think I posted photos here a long time ago showing what I did. Maybe somebody will find the project interesting. It's great if you dry camp a lot.


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