# Hot Water Tank Draining Question



## booze123 (Jun 29, 2010)

Was told by the dealer, my hot water tank cannot be drained without unscrewing the anode plug each time we finish a camping trip. That seems odd to me as my previous popup drained when I opened up the low point drains. Can I do the same with my 250RS? If not, what a PITA to take the anode plug out each time!


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## Red Beard (Feb 13, 2010)

and now you have a mod.
you can make a drain with a trip to Lowes that screws into the anode.
this is on my to-do list. Think I will do it when I winterize.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

On your old trailer the water heater did not drain when you open the low points. It only drained the lines. I leave mine full for the season and drain it when I winterize.


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## MacTeam (Jul 27, 2008)

x2 You do not need to drain after each trip. It stays full all summer long, just pull the anode plug in the fall to winterize.


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## Mrwilkal (Jul 11, 2010)

If you are putting your rv away for winter you must drain the hat water tank or water is water and it will freeze.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

CamperAndy said:


> On your old trailer the water heater did not drain when you open the low points. It only drained the lines. I leave mine full for the season and drain it when I winterize.


I disagree Andy.

His might have drained the WH. Mine did on my OB and does on my MH. What you have to do is slowly open the pressure valve on the WH this will drain the HWH. Make sure your pump is off, water is off and cool, and the low point drains are opened. Try it and let us know if that works for you. Physics says it will unless you have 1-way valves installed on your HWH. Then Physics says it wont.

You shouldn't have to drain it each trip if you don't want to. I did if it were sitting for longer than a few weeks. For us that is rarely the case.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Sayonara said:


> On your old trailer the water heater did not drain when you open the low points. It only drained the lines. I leave mine full for the season and drain it when I winterize.


I disagree Andy.

His might have drained the WH. Mine did on my OB and does on my MH. What you have to do is slowly open the pressure valve on the WH this will drain the HWH. Make sure your pump is off, water is off and cool, and the low point drains are opened. Try it and let us know if that works for you. Physics says it will unless you have 1-way valves installed on your HWH. Then Physics says it wont.

You shouldn't have to drain it each trip if you don't want to. I did if it were sitting for longer than a few weeks. For us that is rarely the case.
[/quote]

All outbacks come with water heater bypass kits and this includes check valve in the inlet and outlet of the water heater the lift pressure of the check valves is greater then the gravity effect of opening the low point drain in the piping even if the T&P valve is opened manually, which is something I avoid doing anyway due to potential re seating issues. If yours drained then your inlet check valve was failed which is common but should not be relied on as a method of draining the water heater.


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

Red Beard said:


> and now you have a mod.
> you can make a drain with a trip to Lowes that screws into the anode.
> this is on my to-do list. Think I will do it when I winterize.


I am cuious what this configuration looks like.


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## H2oSprayer (Aug 5, 2006)

My water heater has a drain plug separate from the anode rod. I replaced it with a thumb screw and I drain it after each use. What's the point of keeping water in there just to gnaw away at the anode rod when it may sit for a couple of weeks in between uses?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

H2oSprayer said:


> My water heater has a drain plug separate from the anode rod. I replaced it with a thumb screw and I drain it after each use. What's the point of keeping water in there just to gnaw away at the anode rod when it may sit for a couple of weeks in between uses?


Actually I think you get less corrosion when it is not exposed to air. The anode only works when the whole thing is submerged and when everything is exposed the anode can not help direct the corrosion to its sacrificial metal and the corrosion will occur through out the tank.

Either way the tank should last as long as the trailer life or at least longer then the rest of the water heater that may prompt its replacement.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

CamperAndy said:


> On your old trailer the water heater did not drain when you open the low points. It only drained the lines. I leave mine full for the season and drain it when I winterize.


I disagree Andy.

His might have drained the WH. Mine did on my OB and does on my MH. What you have to do is slowly open the pressure valve on the WH this will drain the HWH. Make sure your pump is off, water is off and cool, and the low point drains are opened. Try it and let us know if that works for you. Physics says it will unless you have 1-way valves installed on your HWH. Then Physics says it wont.

You shouldn't have to drain it each trip if you don't want to. I did if it were sitting for longer than a few weeks. For us that is rarely the case.
[/quote]

All outbacks come with water heater bypass kits and this includes check valve in the inlet and outlet of the water heater the lift pressure of the check valves is greater then the gravity effect of opening the low point drain in the piping even if the T&P valve is opened manually, which is something I avoid doing anyway due to potential re seating issues. If yours drained then your inlet check valve was failed which is common but should not be relied on as a method of draining the water heater.
[/quote]

As I said, if check valves were in place it would not work. However, this was not found by chance, my dealer mentioned this as a way to drain the lines/HWH when I purchased my first boat with a galley. It worked on our next 2 boats, our TT and is working on my new MH. I suggest checking the HWH by taking off the plug/anode rod if you are winterizing. I always do this just to be sure.

I contend that the vacuum created by the water exiting the lines through the low point drains "sucks" the water out of the HWH in the proper direction of water flow (not back through faulty check valves) when the T&P valve is opened. Similar to the experiment with a high bucket of water draining in to a low bucket through a hose once the suction is started......same principal. when the T&P valve is closed it creates negative pressure in the tank and does not let the water drain. In our cases, the suction is started by the existing water traveling through the lines out the low point drains.

It may or may not work for you. Of the people I have mentioned it to, it has worked fine. Try it next time for grins and let me know your findings.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Opening the pressure releif valve should work if the low point drains are close enough.

As for pop ups, my coleman Cheyenne had low point drains just behind the WH, and if you opened both, it drained the system including the tank. Maybe those didn't have the check valve?


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## marker (Aug 14, 2009)

Wait a minute guys. I may be wrong here, but are most water heaters these days aluminum and do not have an anode.

I know my WH has a nylon plug where I can easily drain it without any problems, and I have never seen an anode on it.

Am I wrong here????

Gary


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

marker said:


> Wait a minute guys. I may be wrong here, but are most water heaters these days aluminum and do not have an anode.
> 
> I know my WH has a nylon plug where I can easily drain it without any problems, and I have never seen an anode on it.
> 
> ...


If you have the small plastic plug the tank is aluminum and will not normally have an Anode rod.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Sayonara said:


> As I said, if check valves were in place it would not work. However, this was not found by chance, my dealer mentioned this as a way to drain the lines/HWH when I purchased my first boat with a galley. It worked on our next 2 boats, our TT and is working on my new MH. I suggest checking the HWH by taking off the plug/anode rod if you are winterizing. I always do this just to be sure.
> 
> I contend that the vacuum created by the water exiting the lines through the low point drains "sucks" the water out of the HWH in the proper direction of water flow (not back through faulty check valves) when the T&P valve is opened. Similar to the experiment with a high bucket of water draining in to a low bucket through a hose once the suction is started......same principal. when the T&P valve is closed it creates negative pressure in the tank and does not let the water drain. In our cases, the suction is started by the existing water traveling through the lines out the low point drains.
> 
> It may or may not work for you. Of the people I have mentioned it to, it has worked fine. Try it next time for grins and let me know your findings.


Well if the check valves are in place and working then it will not drain as the cold inlet is on the bottom and the hot outlet is on the top of the tank. Vacuum will not drain a tank with this plumbing arrangement.


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## booze123 (Jun 29, 2010)

My Niagra popup drained some how, cause everytime i filled the fresh water holding tank before camping, i opened the HP vent on the HW Tank and air spewed out for about 8-10 minutes as the tank filled. Nonetheless, I'll just drain periodically as needed buy removing the anode. PITA! My chief concern is the added weight, an additional 50 lbs to carry that i'd rather not.


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## booze123 (Jun 29, 2010)

Red Beard said:


> and now you have a mod.
> you can make a drain with a trip to Lowes that screws into the anode.
> this is on my to-do list. Think I will do it when I winterize.


I assume you just drill out the center of the plug and tap in a thumb screww to drain the tank. if not, please explain this mod. Am interested in draining after each trip to save on weight while on the road.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

CamperAndy said:


> As I said, if check valves were in place it would not work. However, this was not found by chance, my dealer mentioned this as a way to drain the lines/HWH when I purchased my first boat with a galley. It worked on our next 2 boats, our TT and is working on my new MH. I suggest checking the HWH by taking off the plug/anode rod if you are winterizing. I always do this just to be sure.
> 
> I contend that the vacuum created by the water exiting the lines through the low point drains "sucks" the water out of the HWH in the proper direction of water flow (not back through faulty check valves) when the T&P valve is opened. Similar to the experiment with a high bucket of water draining in to a low bucket through a hose once the suction is started......same principal. when the T&P valve is closed it creates negative pressure in the tank and does not let the water drain. In our cases, the suction is started by the existing water traveling through the lines out the low point drains.
> 
> It may or may not work for you. Of the people I have mentioned it to, it has worked fine. Try it next time for grins and let me know your findings.


Well if the check valves are in place and working then it will not drain as the cold inlet is on the bottom and the hot outlet is on the top of the tank. Vacuum will not drain a tank with this plumbing arrangement.
[/quote]
Andy, the vacuum could easily draw the water out the hot outlet.

Long story short, you told the OP that his HWH didn't drain when he said it did. Now others have posted that theirs have drained as well and I am sure there are plenty more. I was just trying to add that based on my experience they do drain when the TP valve was opened, maybe not all but so far all mine have and anyone I have mentioned it to has found that they did as well.

Give it a try and see if yours does.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

booze123 said:


> and now you have a mod.
> you can make a drain with a trip to Lowes that screws into the anode.
> this is on my to-do list. Think I will do it when I winterize.


I assume you just drill out the center of the plug and tap in a thumb screww to drain the tank. if not, please explain this mod. Am interested in draining after each trip to save on weight while on the road.
[/quote]

Booze123, this is exactly what I used to do and was going to put the drain in as well (back on my boat). When I went to my dealer that is when they mentioned the TP valve trick. After that, I opened the drains and cracked the valve after each trip. The mod is fine too but this to me seemed like a nice clean way to drain everything.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Sayonara said:


> As I said, if check valves were in place it would not work. However, this was not found by chance, my dealer mentioned this as a way to drain the lines/HWH when I purchased my first boat with a galley. It worked on our next 2 boats, our TT and is working on my new MH. I suggest checking the HWH by taking off the plug/anode rod if you are winterizing. I always do this just to be sure.
> 
> I contend that the vacuum created by the water exiting the lines through the low point drains "sucks" the water out of the HWH in the proper direction of water flow (not back through faulty check valves) when the T&P valve is opened. Similar to the experiment with a high bucket of water draining in to a low bucket through a hose once the suction is started......same principal. when the T&P valve is closed it creates negative pressure in the tank and does not let the water drain. In our cases, the suction is started by the existing water traveling through the lines out the low point drains.
> 
> It may or may not work for you. Of the people I have mentioned it to, it has worked fine. Try it next time for grins and let me know your findings.


Well if the check valves are in place and working then it will not drain as the cold inlet is on the bottom and the hot outlet is on the top of the tank. Vacuum will not drain a tank with this plumbing arrangement.
[/quote]
Andy, the vacuum could easily draw the water out the hot outlet.

Long story short, you told the OP that his HWH didn't drain when he said it did. Now others have posted that theirs have drained as well and I am sure there are plenty more. I was just trying to add that based on my experience they do drain when the TP valve was opened, maybe not all but so far all mine have and anyone I have mentioned it to has found that they did as well.

Give it a try and see if yours does.
[/quote]

Okay if you say so but unless water can fly it can not get up and out the hot water outlet by vacuum. Just as a point of reference, every year when I winterize the water heater retains the water until I pull the drain or anode on the water heater tank. I have never had one drain via the plumbing low points, nor would I expect it to.

The image below shows the witerizing bypass but the reason for posting it is to show the typical outlet location of the hot water, it is at the same height on the back of the tank as the T&P valve is on the front of the tank.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

CamperAndy said:


> As I said, if check valves were in place it would not work. However, this was not found by chance, my dealer mentioned this as a way to drain the lines/HWH when I purchased my first boat with a galley. It worked on our next 2 boats, our TT and is working on my new MH. I suggest checking the HWH by taking off the plug/anode rod if you are winterizing. I always do this just to be sure.
> 
> I contend that the vacuum created by the water exiting the lines through the low point drains "sucks" the water out of the HWH in the proper direction of water flow (not back through faulty check valves) when the T&P valve is opened. Similar to the experiment with a high bucket of water draining in to a low bucket through a hose once the suction is started......same principal. when the T&P valve is closed it creates negative pressure in the tank and does not let the water drain. In our cases, the suction is started by the existing water traveling through the lines out the low point drains.
> 
> It may or may not work for you. Of the people I have mentioned it to, it has worked fine. Try it next time for grins and let me know your findings.


Well if the check valves are in place and working then it will not drain as the cold inlet is on the bottom and the hot outlet is on the top of the tank. Vacuum will not drain a tank with this plumbing arrangement.
[/quote]
Andy, the vacuum could easily draw the water out the hot outlet.

Long story short, you told the OP that his HWH didn't drain when he said it did. Now others have posted that theirs have drained as well and I am sure there are plenty more. I was just trying to add that based on my experience they do drain when the TP valve was opened, maybe not all but so far all mine have and anyone I have mentioned it to has found that they did as well.

Give it a try and see if yours does.
[/quote]

Okay if you say so but unless water can fly it can not get up and out the hot water outlet by vacuum. Just as a point of reference, every year when I winterize the water heater retains the water until I pull the drain or anode on the water heater tank. I have never had one drain via the plumbing low points, nor would I expect it to.

The image below shows the witerizing bypass but the reason for posting it is to show the typical outlet location of the hot water, it is at the same height on the back of the tank as the T&P valve is on the front of the tank.









[/quote]

Andy, First off, I am trying to keep this mature and not have it turn in to a big ugly debate. What I am explaining has worked on mine and others units. I am not making this up.

I agree 100% that the water will not drain out (using this low point drain method) if the TP valve isn't opened Mine never has drained this way either but once you open the valve, the floodgates opened....this is not a theory it is fact that i have witnessed on several units.

When replacing a tank on a friends TT it was explained to us that the hot water exit has a tube on the inside of the tank that goes to the bottom of the tank similar to a straw in a cup. I have never seen the inside of a tank so I can not confirm this but when we were purchasing the new HWH I asked the dealer if water would pass through only when the tank was full and he said no and explained the above.

See this cutaway top view of the tank. I think you can see the white tube on the left going to the bottom of the tank but not sure. If this is the case then there is no need for the water to "fly" only sucked out by the vacuum created by the water exiting the low point drains with the valve open, of coarse. If there is no such hose then yes i agree that this would not work unless water could "fly" and that the water must be traveling back through the cold inlet.









Also, according to Suburban, the valve is located in an airpocket created above the water level in the tank. You can see how high it is in this picture.









Just out of curiosity, the next time you think about it, try opening your low point drains then the valve and see what happens. Maybe nothing, maybe the HWH will drain I dont know but ordinarily I trust your advice and would love to have you give this a try to see if it acts the same as others and get your feedback.


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## Rip (Jul 13, 2006)

I'm with you Sayonara my tank will drain the same way as yours !!!!!!!!!! I was shock the first time it happen and thought my check valve was bad check it and was ok!!!!! I think you hit it on the head with the straw going to the bottom makes sense to me now !!!!!!! Thanks for your report


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

The white straw is the cold water inlet which is designed to help prevent sediment from accumulating.

Sorry if you think I offended, it was not intended but the design when check valves are installed, as they are on all Outbacks, it should not allow gravity drain of the water heater via the plumbing low point drains. Honest I do not make this stuff up.


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## booze123 (Jun 29, 2010)

Sayonara said:


> and now you have a mod.
> you can make a drain with a trip to Lowes that screws into the anode.
> this is on my to-do list. Think I will do it when I winterize.


I assume you just drill out the center of the plug and tap in a thumb screww to drain the tank. if not, please explain this mod. Am interested in draining after each trip to save on weight while on the road.
[/quote]

Booze123, this is exactly what I used to do and was going to put the drain in as well (back on my boat). When I went to my dealer that is when they mentioned the TP valve trick. After that, I opened the drains and cracked the valve after each trip. The mod is fine too but this to me seemed like a nice clean way to drain everything.
[/quote]

Silly question; what is a TP valve?


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## john7349 (Jan 13, 2008)

Temperature Pressure Relief Valve on the Hot Water Tank.


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## duggy (Mar 17, 2010)

My biggest concern with draining the hot water tank each time I used the trailer (besides being a PITA), is the risk of forgetting to fill the tank before turning on the heater. Next thing you know, you're replacing a burnt out heater element.

If you're that concerned about the extra weight for traveling, just make sure you drink all the beer before you hit the road!!!









Doug


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

CamperAndy said:


> On your old trailer the water heater did not drain when you open the low points. It only drained the lines. I leave mine full for the season and drain it when I winterize.


I disagree Andy.

His might have drained the WH. Mine did on my OB and does on my MH. What you have to do is slowly open the pressure valve on the WH this will drain the HWH. Make sure your pump is off, water is off and cool, and the low point drains are opened. Try it and let us know if that works for you. Physics says it will unless you have 1-way valves installed on your HWH. Then Physics says it wont.

You shouldn't have to drain it each trip if you don't want to. I did if it were sitting for longer than a few weeks. For us that is rarely the case.
[/quote]

All outbacks come with water heater bypass kits and this includes check valve in the inlet and outlet of the water heater the lift pressure of the check valves is greater then the gravity effect of opening the low point drain in the piping even if the T&P valve is opened manually, which is something I avoid doing anyway due to potential re seating issues. If yours drained then your inlet check valve was failed which is common but should not be relied on as a method of draining the water heater.
[/quote]

Well Andy, most of the time I agree with you, but this time . . .

The Keystone manual (or perhaps the WH manufacturers manual







) says to exercise the T&P valve regularly to ensure that it will operate properly if needed. (Yeah, I know all about the "parts" business! ha!) But seriously - valves get sticky from non-use. Exercising keeps them operating properly. Just don't forget to close it when the tank is drained. (Don't ask me why I know that.)

I drain my WH and water lines after each trip if I don't anticipate going camping again for a few weeks. Even in the best campgrounds, one cannot guarantee the purity of the water - only that it passed a test by the state. I had a tankful of pretty funky water one summer when the tank sat full for 3-4 weeks in 90-degree weather. (That water came from a state park!!!)

After our last trip (four weeks ago) I drained my water heater, opened the low point drain lines and all faucets, and disassembled the undersink water filter (the cartridge can become a growing media). That said - I do not have an anode rod, but only a plastic plug. I drain the WH several times each season and I exercise the T&P valve each time. No leaks so far, in four seasons.

However, you are correct about the low-point drain lines draining the WH. If it weren't for the check valves at the WH, a siphoning effect could mostly drain the WH, if everything is done in the correct order. But the check valves are too much for gravity to overcome. Most Outbacks that I know about are plumbed that way. Other manufacturers may be different, but there are more industry standards for this stuff and most trailers are this way.

Just my opinion, but it's worked well for me.

Mike


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Scoutr2 said:


> Well Andy, most of the time I agree with you, but this time . . .
> 
> The Keystone manual (or perhaps the WH manufacturers manual
> 
> ...


Mike, just a quick question, have you ever opened the T&P valve on your house water heater? I haven't either and I don't recommend it on your trailer T&P valve either as they are both exactly the same. Your mileage my very.

BTW the Atwood manual says to cycle the valve once a year. I just don't do it but then the manual says a lot of things that most people don't even know exist. If I camped with city water all the time I would not worry about a leak too much and maybe I would cycle the valve but since I dry camp 95% of the time leaks for any reason are not fun to deal with.


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## vikecowboy (Aug 17, 2006)

If I don't drain my WH and I let the water sit for a few weeks, the water smells to high heaven.

I seem to remember someone on here replacing their drain plug with a valve so the heater can be drained easier. For me I just unscrew the white drain plug but would rather have a valve. I guess I will do more searching here for that mod.

Here it is:

http://www.outbackers.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30330&view=&hl=drain&fromsearch=1


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

CamperAndy said:


> Well Andy, most of the time I agree with you, but this time . . .
> 
> The Keystone manual (or perhaps the WH manufacturers manual
> 
> ...


Mike, just a quick question, have you ever opened the T&P valve on your house water heater? I haven't either and I don't recommend it on your trailer T&P valve either as they are both exactly the same. Your mileage my very.

BTW the Atwood manual says to cycle the valve once a year. I just don't do it but then the manual says a lot of things that most people don't even know exist. If I camped with city water all the time I would not worry about a leak too much and maybe I would cycle the valve but since I dry camp 95% of the time leaks for any reason are not fun to deal with.
[/quote]

Hey Andy,

Yes - I do open the T&P valve on my home water heater a couple times each year. I've never ever had a problem with any T&P valve. I know - it sounds anal, but I'm a tech geek. I teach hydraulic systems and heavy equipment classes (service training) and I know the importance of keeping things working smoothly through routine maintenance and preventive maintenance. Sometimes, it seems as though manufacturers recommend silly things, but there is usually something driving that. Safety (translated as "liability") is a big driver. But having to pay out excessive warranty dollars is the biggest. So they tell you to do what is best for extending the life of the components. That's a win for us consumers, too.

I understand your point about your dry camping situation and I won't say yur fears are unfounded (we have never dry-camped). Obviously, either way works for us. And as far as the T&P popping when needed - I'd bet that a PEX tubing connector would pop before the T&P valve does. Perhaps not - but there is a reason that we all put water pressure reducers on our city water connection.

Too bad we don't live closer together. I'd love to sit around the campfire with you, have a few good brews, and swap maintenance and repair stories.









Chers,

Mike


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Scoutr2 said:


> Too bad we don't live closer together. I'd love to sit around the campfire with you, have a few good brews, and swap maintenance and repair stories.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well late July or early Aug 2011 I will be driving from Idaho to Quebec and IL sounds like a good place to stop for the night on the way or back. So lets plan on it. The beer is on me let me know what you like.


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## TexanThompsons (Apr 21, 2009)

CamperAndy said:


> Too bad we don't live closer together. I'd love to sit around the campfire with you, have a few good brews, and swap maintenance and repair stories.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well late July or early Aug 2011 I will be driving from Idaho to Quebec and IL sounds like a good place to stop for the night on the way or back. So lets plan on it. The beer is on me let me know what you like.
[/quote]

If the beer's on Andy, we'll be there too! haha!!







<-he makes me laugh


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

CamperAndy said:


> Too bad we don't live closer together. I'd love to sit around the campfire with you, have a few good brews, and swap maintenance and repair stories.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well late July or early Aug 2011 I will be driving from Idaho to Quebec and IL sounds like a good place to stop for the night on the way or back. So lets plan on it. The beer is on me let me know what you like.
[/quote]

Sounds like a plan! Let me know when your plans firm up so I know what dates to keep open.

And I fell in love with Leffe Blonde. It's a Belgian ale I discovered when I was in Belgium twice this past year. (6.6% alcohol - high test) But I'm not picky.

My sister lives in Boise - opposite end of the state from you - but when we get out to visit next time, we'll have to try to wrangle a side trip. I've always wanted to see that part of Idaho. They used to live in the Kooskia/Kamiah area, but moved to Boise several years ago. They've just bought a newer home, so I'm sure they will be itching to get us there to see the new digs.

See ya soon!

Mike


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Scoutr2 said:


> Sounds like a plan! Let me know when your plans firm up so I know what dates to keep open.
> 
> And I fell in love with Leffe Blonde. It's a Belgian ale I discovered when I was in Belgium twice this past year. (6.6% alcohol - high test) But I'm not picky.
> 
> ...


Will post the travel plans once I know the dates. I am an IPA kind of guy but will try most beers.

Kooskia and Kamiah are on the Clearwater river and about 25 or 30 miles from my favorite campground in Idaho on the Selway river. Great rafting river.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

CamperAndy said:


> Sounds like a plan! Let me know when your plans firm up so I know what dates to keep open.
> 
> And I fell in love with Leffe Blonde. It's a Belgian ale I discovered when I was in Belgium twice this past year. (6.6% alcohol - high test) But I'm not picky.
> 
> ...


Will post the travel plans once I know the dates. I am an IPA kind of guy but will try most beers.

Kooskia and Kamiah are on the Clearwater river and about 25 or 30 miles from my favorite campground in Idaho on the Selway river. Great rafting river.
[/quote]

We've stayed at Three Rivers Resort a couple times over the years. We rafted on the Salmon River and have gone tubing and swimming on the Clearwater and the Selway. Great times. We also drove to Clarkston, WA one trip and took the 200 mile Beamer's jetboat trip up into Hell's Canyon. That was quite fun.

Cheers,

Mike


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