# Floor Insulation



## darinandsherry

We have owned a 325fre since June of this year and have temporarily moved into it until we can make arrangements to buy a home. We are living in a campground in Penticton and are experiencing temps of -10 c to -15 c. The floor is damn cold and we are burning thru our 30lb propane bottles in 2-3 days. Our unit supposedly has the Arctic barrier package. I started to review our brochure on our trailer and noticed that there is supposed to be a layer of what looks like styrofoam insulation between the aluminum floor joists. Guess what I found...nothing ...just the wood floor decking. No wonder the floor is so cold all the time. Can anyone tell me if this is supposed to be standard on the sydney edition outback fifth wheels....cuz it sure looks like it from my brochure. I will be calling the dealership where I bought it tomorrow to find out what gives.

Darin and Sherry


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## huntr70

Not sure exactly what is supposed to be there, but I can tell you that an Outback (or Sydney) is not a true 4 season trailer....

Their "Arctic Barrier" pretty much amounts to the plastic cover between the framerails underneath.

You really should have looked into a four season unit like a Cardinal or Alpine/Montana to live in through a Canadian winter. You will definitley be burning quite a bit of propane to keep warm!

Can you maybe close off the bottom by putting plywood or something between the skirting and ground to keep some of the cold out?


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## CamperAndy

Starting at the vinyl and working down.

5/8" plywood, 4" bat fiberglass and a woven poly barrier or 1/4" plywood on 1.5" foam on 1/4" plywood. The two construction methods depend on the year of the trailer.

That said the trailers are only 3 season trailers and any representation the dealer made that you could live in it comfortably in -15C weather lied to you. Any "Arctic" package or barrier is just sales smoke and mirrors. You can camp in very cold conditions but you will as you noted burn through some propane and may not be very comfortable but you can do it.


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## Dub

You can keep a bit more heat inside if you cover the A/C, buy some insulation for the roof vents, and then I bought a roll of that silver bubble insulation and used velcro to cover every window. As the others have said, some sort of skirt. If hay or straw bales are cheap in your area it may be cheaper than doing playwood and fiberglass insulation to just stack it around the bottom of the camper. Some people put two 100watt lightbulbs under a skirted camper to keep the temp just above ambient. You can also get some electric ceramic heaters and/or a big buddy type catalytic heater. RV furnaces waste a lot of heat through the exhaust where a catalytic heater uses almost all of the available energy inside. I don't have insulation under mine either...just a layer of corrugated plastic...you could always add some insulation up there if you pulled down all the plastic.


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## CamperAndy

There is no insulation in the frame. It is in the sub floor framing that sits on the running gear frame.


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## Tangooutback

darinandsherry said:


> We have owned a 325fre since June of this year and have temporarily moved into it until we can make arrangements to buy a home. We are living in a campground in Penticton and are experiencing temps of -10 c to -15 c. The floor is damn cold and we are burning thru our 30lb propane bottles in 2-3 days. Our unit supposedly has the Arctic barrier package. I started to review our brochure on our trailer and noticed that there is supposed to be a layer of what looks like styrofoam insulation between the aluminum floor joists. Guess what I found...nothing ...just the wood floor decking. No wonder the floor is so cold all the time. Can anyone tell me if this is supposed to be standard on the sydney edition outback fifth wheels....cuz it sure looks like it from my brochure. I will be calling the dealership where I bought it tomorrow to find out what gives.
> 
> Darin and Sherry


If the brochure clearly states styrofoam insulation and your trailer has bare bottom, I am sure you can file a lawsuit for false advertising. That ought to entice the manufacturer to refit your trailer accordingly. Complaining to the dealer most likely would not bring anything positive. Dealer will give you a bunch of runaround nonsense.

Blow in styrofoam would be great. It not only thermally insulates but also reduces noises and insect penetration.


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## KTMRacer

darinandsherry said:


> We have owned a 325fre since June of this year and have temporarily moved into it until we can make arrangements to buy a home. We are living in a campground in Penticton and are experiencing temps of -10 c to -15 c. The floor is damn cold and we are burning thru our 30lb propane bottles in 2-3 days. Our unit supposedly has the Arctic barrier package. I started to review our brochure on our trailer and noticed that there is supposed to be a layer of what looks like styrofoam insulation between the aluminum floor joists. Guess what I found...nothing ...just the wood floor decking. No wonder the floor is so cold all the time. Can anyone tell me if this is supposed to be standard on the sydney edition outback fifth wheels....cuz it sure looks like it from my brochure. I will be calling the dealership where I bought it tomorrow to find out what gives.
> 
> Darin and Sherry


My outback LOOKS like it has just decking with the plastic on it, but it REALLY is a sandwich of decking, foaminsulation, decking, plastic wrap. The whole sandwich is on TOP of the floor joists. If it's like mine and laminated together you won't seen any visible insulation by looking underneath. You need to find a hole cut through the the floor big enough to see how it is assembled. My guess is what you'll find is a sandwich like mine.

However, as others have pointed out, these really aren't 4 season trailers (well maybe for those of us in western oregon). No double pane windows, r-9 walls etc.


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## darinandsherry

huntr70 said:


> Not sure exactly what is supposed to be there, but I can tell you that an Outback (or Sydney) is not a true 4 season trailer....
> 
> Their "Arctic Barrier" pretty much amounts to the plastic cover between the framerails underneath.
> 
> You really should have looked into a four season unit like a Cardinal or Alpine/Montana to live in through a Canadian winter. You will definitley be burning quite a bit of propane to keep warm!
> 
> Can you maybe close off the bottom by putting plywood or something between the skirting and ground to keep some of the cold out?


We werent actually planning on living in it or camping in the winter...just happened that my girlfriend took a transfer to a new city and now we are looking into having a house built so we are living in it in the interim. I swear the brochure still shows insulation under the decking between the aluminum joists. They call it r14blanket in floor insulation and the brochure shows it beneath the wood decking between the joists.


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## tom-n-jean

darinandsherry said:


> We have owned a 325fre since June of this year and have temporarily moved into it until we can make arrangements to buy a home. We are living in a campground in Penticton and are experiencing temps of -10 c to -15 c. The floor is damn cold and we are burning thru our 30lb propane bottles in 2-3 days. Our unit supposedly has the Arctic barrier package. I started to review our brochure on our trailer and noticed that there is supposed to be a layer of what looks like styrofoam insulation between the aluminum floor joists. Guess what I found...nothing ...just the wood floor decking. No wonder the floor is so cold all the time. Can anyone tell me if this is supposed to be standard on the sydney edition outback fifth wheels....cuz it sure looks like it from my brochure. I will be calling the dealership where I bought it tomorrow to find out what gives.
> 
> Darin and Sherry


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## tom-n-jean

We're right there with you in our 2010 32.5 Outback 5th wheel that we're living in it near Seattle. This is our last ditched attempt to save some serious money for retirement for us. Sold the house and moved in full time in May 2010. Now, DANG cold and no water (frozen pipe? frozen tank?) - 14 degrees outside. I got some rugs and put them over the carpet across the slides to block some of the cold on the floor. We got a huge propane tank and are running the furnace like crazy. The minute it goes off, it gets cold in here. ALso am sewing some "warm window" roman shades for the windows - in the meantime, I have the unsewed pieces taped around the windows with painters tape. So elegant looking (NOT!). I'm frustrated that we were sold an Arctic Package that isn't truly "Arctic". We couldn't afford the cost of the Montanas and Cardinals and were hoping to keep our 2000 Ford F250 to pull it, so wanted "light". Got to keep our sense of humor. Thinking this is not the best winter to start this lifestyle with La Nina Winter looming for months ahead.

We called the factory this morning and they said we're good to 32 degrees is all. Anything lower than that - all bets are off.

Tom and Jean


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## hautevue

I agree with the factory--when it's 17 and windy, you will probably need supplemental heat like electric heaters. One OBer suggested putting small holes sideways in the vents to run warm air into the underbelly. That'll help, but, of course, reduces the heat (air flow) available to keep the TT living area warm.

You may need to put skirting around the perimeter of the TT to cut out the air movement under the unit.

Canadian OBers can chime in here with suggestions--we're "toasty" here in Baltimore, MD.


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## KTMRacer

Tangooutback said:


> We have owned a 325fre since June of this year and have temporarily moved into it until we can make arrangements to buy a home. We are living in a campground in Penticton and are experiencing temps of -10 c to -15 c. The floor is damn cold and we are burning thru our 30lb propane bottles in 2-3 days. Our unit supposedly has the Arctic barrier package. I started to review our brochure on our trailer and noticed that there is supposed to be a layer of what looks like styrofoam insulation between the aluminum floor joists. Guess what I found...nothing ...just the wood floor decking. No wonder the floor is so cold all the time. Can anyone tell me if this is supposed to be standard on the sydney edition outback fifth wheels....cuz it sure looks like it from my brochure. I will be calling the dealership where I bought it tomorrow to find out what gives.
> 
> Darin and Sherry


If the brochure clearly states styrofoam insulation and your trailer has bare bottom, I am sure you can file a lawsuit for false advertising. That ought to entice the manufacturer to refit your trailer accordingly. Complaining to the dealer most likely would not bring anything positive. Dealer will give you a bunch of runaround nonsense.

Blow in styrofoam would be great. It not only thermally insulates but also reduces noises and insect penetration.
[/quote]

brochures have the "specs subject to change without notice" and are just that a brochure, not spec sheet. Question is what does the actual order sheet for a specific SN say it has for insulation. Most newer outbacks have R-9 walls, R-14 floors, R-14 ceiling. Really not that much insulation, coupled that with LOTS of single pane window area and you have something that looses heat pretty quickly. It is interesting to note that I haven't seen any Outback brochures that talk about Outbacks being "4 season" trailers, and they really aren't. On my 295RE, I'll be the furnace would run almost continually by 0F.


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## duggy

hautevue said:


> Canadian OBers can chime in here with suggestions--we're "toasty" here in Baltimore, MD.


I'm a Canadian OBer, but mines put away for the winter. The last weekend of our season saw night temperatures right at freezing. We had a little ceramic heater, electric blankets on the beds and the furnace coming on when needed. It was quite comfortable and amazingly the windows weren't even fogged up (we did leave the roof vents open an inch for fresh air). All that said, I wouldn't consider trying to spend a winter in it if temperatures routinely got below freezing. They're not built for it and I think the inevitable condensation build up would start to damage the structural integrity of the trailer.

Doug


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## darinandsherry

Well we finally got our hot water line thawed out for the bathroom so we can actually have a shower after 4 days without. I'm thinking about pulling the bottom cover off the trailer and insulating the water lines and running heater cord along them but its a lot of work to get the cover off as its a one piece along the full length of the trailer. Its actually quite comfortable now that the temp is running just around the freezing point. Condensation inside the trailer hasnt gennerally been a problem except for a small amount around the windows. Skirting the trailer looks like a large job due to the 4 slides and I'm not much of a carpenter and most of my tools are in storage. We'll just have to grin and bear it for the next 3 months until it warms up and we can get into a house.







Oh...now my propane burner for the hot water tank is not functioning so we're running on electric. I think the gas valve has failed. Thank god we bought the 7 year warranty.


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## akjason

I'm up here in Alaska and we do have a few Travel Trailers and 5'ers that live full-time in them. What I typically see is what others have suggested. Purchasing insulation, along with plywood to go around the trailer to the ground. I am not too sure how well it works, but for the past month or so it has been around -10 to 15 above. I wouldn't want to do it myself, but I think at least lining the outside with plywood would keep some of the cold out from the under-belly especially with wind chill factors.


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## Ryan Fater

Remove your heat duct and bend the flange so you can look on the side of the duct. You will see white insulation foam board. You could drop one side of the plastic on the bottom and put foam board ontop of the plastic between the joists. What I do is on cold nights I leave my tanks open and turn on faucets to a slow drip and it wont freeze. Plus I have a Pirit heated hose. Foam board your slidouts under them. Foam tube your low drains. Good luck


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