# 80% Rule



## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

As you all know or may not, for that matter. We are thinking about moving up to a Fiver or 28RSDS.

Well, I have been playing with different scenarios for different units and what I am finding is a little disturbing.

We have a 2500 HD Gasser. Fire44 was kind enough to pull my exact specs from GM (Thanks Gary!).









I am using what I think to be a conservative number of 1400 lbs of gear in the camper. I may be a little heavy, I may not. Here are the numbers that I have run for the 28RSDS and the 29FBHS.

29FBHS

Calculated Tow Vehicle Weights	
GVW w/o Trailer	6,171 (from the scale)
Pin/Hitch Weight	2,285
GVW w/ Trailer (Total)	8,456
GAW w/ Trailer (Front)	4,383
GAW w/ Trailer (Rear)	4,073
GCW w/ Trailer (Gross Combined Weight)	14,876/16,000 = 93%

28RSDS

Calculated Tow Vehicle Weights	
GVW w/o Trailer	6,171 (from scales)
Pin/Hitch Weight	600
GVW w/ Trailer (Total)	6,771
GAW w/ Trailer (Front)	2,698
GAW w/ Trailer (Rear)	4,073
GCW w/ Trailer (Gross Combined Weight)	13,191/16,000 = 82%

And I thought that I could tow almost anything with my 2500HD. I guess I was wrong!

How close is everyone else? Am I insane for thinking about the fiver?

Please help, my fever is running very High!!!!

Happy Outbacking!

Tim


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Your close with the 5er but should be fine with the TT. Just a question on the picture in your sig. It looks like your sagging in the rear







with the Outback. Maybe that's just the way the picture is but with the pin weight of a 5er you might run into problems if your getting that kind of drop, there is no WD with at 5th.

I wish I could upgrade to a 5er but DW won't even consider it until the TV is paid for.

Bill.


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

Bill,

that is the angle of the picture. I have had 2000lbs of pellets in the bed and it did not touch the helper springs!

I guess my point is that if I am at 82% of my GCWR where is everyone with 1/2 tons and 3.55 rears?

Happy Outbacking!

Tim


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

Highlander96 said:


> I guess my point is that if I an at 82% of my GCWR where is everyone with 1/2 tons and 3.55 rears?
> 
> Happy Outbacking!
> 
> ...


I prefer not to look at those numbers. shy


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Tim,

I would say the 5'ver is asking a bit much of your rig. I don't think I personally would consider one with anything less than a 1 ton.

The 28RS-DS on the other hand would be a great combo. We have friends that pull one with a 2500HD (camptoddski) and love it, although they did have to add air-bags to the rear to stop a chronic porposing condition (Funny, I have never had that problem with my 'little' 1/2 ton Titan







)

Good luck with the feva'

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## RLW7302 (Feb 27, 2005)

Tim,

I'm pulling an Outback 5er with pretty much the same truck as you (though I have the crew cab versus your extended cab).

As your calculations suggest, and my having weighed my rig confirms, this combination _is_ pretty close to the GVWR and GCWR ratings of the truck. And our 5er is _really_ loaded up with gear. That being said, I have not had any trouble towing with this combination.

Curb weight of my truck is 6,580# including 5th wheel hitch, driver, full tank of gas, and nerf bars, and some other "stuff"

Hitch weight of 5er, including a "full basement" is 1,880#

GCW of TV and 5er is 15,500# vs a GCWR of 16,000# for the 2500HD gasser (almost 97%).

Bottom line, I don't think your crazy for considering the 5er. You're going in with your eyes open. You're going to be close to the limits. It comes down to what you're comfortable with. Again, it's been a good combination for us.

Good luck,
Roger


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

Rodger,

Have you had any problems with hills? That is the only thing that the "weight police" on the other side have warned me of. I plan on staying on the East Coast until we move up to a diesel in two years. However, that may be sooner than I expected.









I knew I should have bought that PSD last year!!!!! shy

Happy Outbacking!

Tim


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

Highlander96 said:


> I knew I should have bought that PSD last year!!!!!
> [snapback]71701[/snapback]​


Duramax is not spelled PSD.


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

I know Jim....but I had a smoking deal on a "Power Choke", that I passed up.

Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda........

Happy Outbacking!

Tim


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

That is what I was thinking Katrina!!!!!

I know that I am at the GM listed towing capacity of my Suburban and I prefer not to think about the GCWR. I know that it is wrong but a new TV is not in the picture for at least 2 more years. By then maybe a diesel Suburban!!!!

Gary


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## RLW7302 (Feb 27, 2005)

Highlander96 said:


> Rodger,
> 
> Have you had any problems with hills? That is the only thing that the "weight police" on the other side have warned me of. I plan on staying on the East Coast until we move up to a diesel in two years. However, that may be sooner than I expected.
> 
> ...


I've made a number of trips through southwestern Ohio and Kentucky. No real mountains, but some pretty good hills. I easily maintain 60 MPH with the engine never exceeding 3500 to 3600 RPM. So, IMHO, no, I haven't had any problems with hills.


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Highlander96 said:


> I guess my point is that if I am at 82% of my GCWR where is everyone with 1/2 tons and 3.55 rears?
> [snapback]71674[/snapback]​


120% would be my guess. What gears do you have, does that change the tow model any for your rig. I also know what a pallet of pellets way and you are correct, didn't touch my helper springs either, you got to love the 3/4 tons for something besides pulling campers.

Bill.


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## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

The numbers your calculating with do not seem to match those recently posted on the outback web site. You numbers seem to be light in some areas and heavy in others. The 28rsds is only a couple hundred pounds heavier than my 29BHS and with my reece dual cam sway and WD I pull it with my 1500 chevy crew cab. The 2500 should have no problem with the 28rsds especially if you put on the wd and sway. I would also say you could do the 5er, If need be you could just add air bags in the rear and that will take the load. My cousin pulls a 36" raptor toy hauler which is 11K empty and will go to 15.5K. He put in the air bags in measured the truck without the load, added the trailer Aand then infalted the bags until he reached the same height, (above 70lbs) and he pulls that better than I pull my 29'.


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

RLW7302 said:


> I've made a number of trips through southwestern Ohio and Kentucky. No real mountains, but some pretty good hills. I easily maintain 60 MPH with the engine never exceeding 3500 to 3600 RPM. So, IMHO, no, I haven't had any problems with hills.
> [snapback]71720[/snapback]​


Just for grins and comparisons my 3/4 ton 02 Ram diesel pulling our 26rs fully loaded with water and hunting gear and buddies was able to maintain 45-50mph up I-70 in Colorado west of Denver in the Rocky Mountains (picture below was hunting camp). Those hills from Denver to Idaho Springs are killers, everything else out here I can leave the cruse on without thinking twice and maintain speed in OD. It all boils down to flat land low altitude or mountains and high altitude. If your going to play in the high altitude and mountains you need a bigger rig.

Bill.


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

Bill,

I am running 4.10's. According to the GM website, the only thing that affects GVWR is the engine, I think. I have been up and down the tables and that is the only thing I can find. There are 3500's that are rated lower than my truck. I guess that is why they call it a 1 Ton Light. The big diffeence here is altitude. The highest peak, I would cross would be about 1800'. A hill in your book.

nynethead-

The numbers that I am using are taking the numbers right from the Keystone Website and or the scales with my truck. What you don't see...Is the additional weight of 1400 lbs of gear being added in and calculated to the axle weights. Many people overlook axle weights. There have been several combos where the trailer was within my specs for towing, but exceeded my fron axle weights by a coulple of hundred pounds. That can make for an unsafe situation. You are right about the 2500 being able to pull anything, but if you read Doug's earlier post, he has a friend who had problems with the 2500 and 28RSDS.

It is just eye opening when you run the numbers and how much gear some of pack.

Happy Outbacking!

Tim


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

2500Ram said:


> Highlander96 said:
> 
> 
> > I guess my point is that if I am at 82% of my GCWR where is everyone with 1/2 tons and 3.55 rears?Â
> ...


No. I'm at 93%

Scott


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## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

Tim,

I was referring to the new numbers just posted by outback last week for all the 06 models, the tongue weight on the 28 went up to 700Lbs from 600. My rigs actually went down from 685 to 670. I wasn't questioning your calculations only if you had seen the latest posting from Keystone. They seem to be modifing there numbers on different models.


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Moosegut said:


> 2500Ram said:
> 
> 
> > Highlander96 said:
> ...


That shouldn't have been taken seriously action

Bill.


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

2500Ram said:


> Moosegut said:
> 
> 
> > 2500Ram said:
> ...


No . . . seriously . . . I'm at 93%





















I wasn't offended.


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## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

My truck is limited to 7400Lb towing capacity, the trailer is 5700 on the cabinet loaded. with gear int the trailer I would say 6000.

The truck weights 5150 with a 7000 lb limit with a 670 lbs tongue family of 4 at 450lbs, 150 for gas still gives me 580lbs for gear in the truck( i figure no more than 380) and another 1400lbs in the trailer before i'm 100%.

total would be 7000 + 7400 = 14,400
Approx. running 6800 + 6000 = 12,800

I guess I'm running about 88%


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

I could have sworn that number was 600 last night. Okay, add another 100 lbs. to my truck. I guess my eyes were going crossed!!!!!!









I am not questioning anyone.....I was just curious where everyone was.

Happy Outbacking!

Tim action


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

If our trailer is fully loaded, we are at 56%.

Bill


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## Morrowmd (Feb 22, 2005)

If most people are like me, they have been looking primarily at wt of the trailer w/ supplies vs TV max trailer rating and figuring the % from that.

You do raise a good point, the people and stuff in the TV need to be accounted for.

I have been putting it off, but this spring I am going to get to the scales and stop guessing where I am at.

BTW- those who have weighed their rigs, where do you go? Truck stops? How much do they charge? Do you have time to drop your trailer on the scales? Do truckers look at you and laugh?

Just wondering what to expect.

-Matt


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Truck stops re the easiest. If you want to make multiple weighs, then let them know what you want to do face to face instead of over the intercom. First weigh is around 7 to 9 dollars, reweighs are then less.

John


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

Morrowmd said:


> BTW- those who have weighed their rigs, where do you go? Truck stops? How much do they charge? Do you have time to drop your trailer on the scales? Do truckers look at you and laugh?
> 
> -Matt
> [snapback]71846[/snapback]​


Matt,

Check out this link: http://www.catscale.com/locator.shtml

We weighed our rig last summer. Cat Scales are a franchise located usually at truck stops and the equipment is reliable and cost is reasonable. Believe we paid 7 bucks to weigh everything.

And the trucker who gave me several pointers didn't laugh. Our rig is too impresive for anyone to laugh.









Bill


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Often, at least in the West, state truck scales are only manned part of the time. When they are closed, they still leave the scales running. They have no problem with people getting weights. You can take as much time as you need and weigh all axles or even unhook and get a tongue weight (although that would meaingless on a 5, i.e, landing gear weight). I weighed my '97 F-250 and 28FRLS many times thinking something might change and I would be legal all of a sudden. Nothing changed until I got my 3500. Actual weights with fully-loaded, ready to go rig are here.


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