# A New Line From Keystone... Bullet



## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

I just noticed THIS on Keystones site.
"Shipping weight starting at 2600 pounds". This will be interesting.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Just how bare-bones (flimsy) must this new line be to ship at 2600 pounds?

Mark


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Oldest trick in the books: _Starting At_
Wonder where it finishes....









Acutally, if you use a lightweight frame and some lighterweight interior materials, you could take a significant amount of weight out without compromising too much durability.

I signed up for info. I've been looking for a little something to drag behind the 5er!!


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## OutbackPM (Sep 14, 2005)

The profile on the site indicates a large trailer. I guess we will see. Even though lighter would would still need a large truck if it is long.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

With 5 floorplans, "starting at" would seem like a reasonable statement. The 1st in line ships at 2600# and likely is smaller, has fewer options, and/or fewer slides. Others are likely bigger, have more amenities, and/or more slides so have a higher shipping weight.....


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

All the brands have had composite panels, both exterior and interior in the works for a while now.. Pilgram had the best as it removed the framing of the RV pretty much, but Pilgram went broke over the summer.. Rumored that Forest River will be getting that technology.. Could possibly make an RV 1/2 as heavy and just as strong..

We may see a monocoque type chassis too(no rail type frame) here pretty soon..

Trailers can lose 30-40% of there weight with these new technologies without hurting quality..

Yes we will soon be seeing 25 foot trailers being towed by v6 powered suv's such as Jeep Liberty's and Saturn Vue's.. Yes this will be safe as the weight will be in mfr specs.. As far as length bothering a small suv, that will have to be seen.. When the wind blows we will see more accidents prolly, but this is where everyone wants to go, so be it..

I expect to see vehicles like compact suv's like Rav 4's, Santa Fe's, and Ford Escapes towing 20 footers soon too..

We will soon be seeing family type sedans towing RV's too..

They do this in he rest of the world and have many years.... Now its our turn..

The 3/4 ton will still be needed for the big retirement type RV's, but within a few years here, all RV's will be able to be towed very safely with 1/2 tons or smaller with lengths as long as 32 feet.

I bet we see 2000 lbs shaved off the Outback line for each model here soon...

We are now following what the rest of the world has been doing for years.. Like it or not.

Carey


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## campingengineer (May 16, 2008)

We will soon be seeing family type sedans towing RV's too..When I was a kid, my parents towed a 20+ foot Shasta with a Chevy Monte Carlo!

We'd laugh if we saw that today. Heck, maybe they laughed at us then, I just wouldn't have known.

Colleen


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## bill_pfaff (Mar 11, 2005)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> We will soon be seeing family type sedans towing RV's too..


Not that I'm promoting it but it's history repeating itself albeit modified by present technology.

Remember the 50's & 60's when they were towing with "family type sedans ". And yes I am aware that the "family type sedans " were Detroit Iron "tanks" but it is still interesting.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Actually yes, I remember back in the 60's, towing with the family sedan or station wagon was the norm. Nobody used a truck (much less a diesel). You just hitched up the Olds Vista Cruiser or Ford Country Squire (with the cool 2-way tailgate), or the Chevy Impala. Of course, the trailers were a lot smaller then too, and slide-outs had not been invented yet.

As far as a monocoque chassis goes, that would be great and could save a lot of weight, but I think the tooling would be prohibitively expensive. Especially considering the low volumes we are talking about with RV's. A FRP (Fiber Reinforced Plastic... i.e.: fiberglass) chassis would be more reasonable cost wise, but in the end it might not save you any weight.

I think we will start seeing a real trend towards smaller, more space efficient trailers though. These McMansion TT's we have gotten used to are certainly impressive, but do I really need a trailer that is nicer than my house to go camping? When you look at the space efficiencies that the boat manufacturers have managed for years in, say, the 25 foot class of sailboat or cruiser, I think there is a lot of potential out there.

Just a few thoughts.









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

should be interesting....looking forward to see/hearing about the new line.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

The monocoque chassis is here right now.. Just not being used.. When one mfr jumps here soon. The others will follow right in behind..

We will still have slideouts too..

Why use this technology when an american enjoys using there large suvs and big pickups? We would make fun of that technology..

They wait till we all want to go smaller with our tow vehicles, then intro this new stuff looking like the master of technology..

If a guy is using a big diesel to tow with, he wants a big heavy load to go behind it.. He doesnt want a 5000lb 35 foot 5er.. He wants a 12-14000 lb 35 foot 5er..

Our RV's go right in line with what the big 3 do..

Carey


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## Dan H. (Jul 14, 2006)

I bet Keystone may be making use of some aircraft technology to make this ultra light trailer.

Think composite material; composites frames, composite floorboard, composit cabinets and doors combined with a thin light weight skin and you got a trailer that can be "ultra light". By the way, as much as 50 percent of the Boeing 787 primary structure, including the fuselage and wings, will be made of composite materials.

Can't wait to see the details...


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

Maybe I could pull the Bullet trailer with my Bullitt Mustang with the billitt grill.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> Maybe I could pull the Bullet trailer with my Bullitt Mustang with the billitt grill.


Only if it was all painted same color and the Bullet has Billet wheels and a Billet outside grill..

lol


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Maybe I could pull the Bullet trailer with my Bullitt Mustang with the billitt grill.


Only if it was all painted same color and the Bullet has Billet wheels and a Billet outside grill..

lol
[/quote]

I'd have to bite the bullet first, and pull the trigger.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Make sure your teeth are made from Billet before you bite that Bullet..

Carey


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Make sure your teeth are made from Billet before you bite that Bullet..
> 
> Carey


What if he has a Mullet? (hey...it rhymes)


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

If you want to see some really beautiful AND light weight rvs, you should go to either the London, UK, or Frankfurt, DE, shows. In those parts of the world they are known as caravans. They have been building them light weight for many, many years. AWESOME interiors, too. pcm

click to check it out. Enjoy!

http://www.swiftgroup.co.uk/caravans/swift/conqueror/explore

http://www.hobbycaravansuk.co.uk/hobby_car...sinfo=Excelsior


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Cool!! Cant wait to see what they got for us!


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Oregon_Camper said:


> Make sure your teeth are made from Billet before you bite that Bullet..
> 
> Carey


What if he has a Mullet? (hey...it rhymes)
[/quote]

Well then, you'd be good lookin guy.. Girls like Mullets and the fad is chrome teeth.. So be sure to look your best and bite that bullet with your billet teeth and mullet dew.. You will be da man better than super man.

lol

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

jdpm said:


> If you want to see some really beautiful AND light weight rvs, you should go to either the London, UK, or Frankfurt, DE, shows. In those parts of the world they are known as caravans. They have been building them light weight for many, many years. AWESOME interiors, too. pcm
> 
> click to check it out. Enjoy!
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks for the links.. If you notice several of the models have underslung aluminum frames.. I seen one model with a frame from axle to hitch and not much behind that for a frame.. I would expect to see something similar here on our rigs in the future.

Notice what is pulling them, a BMW 5 series suv..

Many of the RV haulers I meet are retired from working in RV factories.. You guys would never believe what our RV manufactures have in there hip pockets ready to put into production when the timing is right.. They are very well prepared for economical times, and are more ready to deal with what is coming versus other manufactures in the auto industry..

But again the tow vehicle leads the train.. They build to match the current needs.

Carey


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

Anoher link: check out the bathrooms. NICE! pcm

http://www.dethleffs.de/2006/gb/caravans/r...rally_nomad.php


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

This will be interesting to see how much they can reduce the weight while keeping the cost from skyrocketing. Making something light and affordable is always the really trickly part. I also think they will need to get the weight in the range of 4,000 lbs or less to make them towable by something other than a 1/2 ton truck or full size SUV (Suburban/Expedition). When we had our popup it weighed 3,500 lbs fully loaded and when we had our Expedition with the 4.6L engine it had to work pretty hard on hills even though it had a tow rating of over 6,000 lbs. When we were selling it a friend of mine was interested and he had a minivan with a 3,500 lb tow rating. We tried it with the trailer fairly empty so it probably weighed about 2,800 lbs. The minivan pulled it but it was struggling on any kind of hill. He ended up getting a smaller popup and even that worked the minivan pretty hard

I could see some of the vehicles with tow ratings of 5,000 lbs being able to pull these but I doubt we'll see people with Camrys and Accords pulling travel trailers around. This may open up the RV market a bit more but probably not nearly has much as the manufacturers would like.


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

PDX_Doug said:


> Actually yes, I remember back in the 60's, towing with the family sedan or station wagon was the norm. Nobody used a truck (much less a diesel). You just hitched up the Olds Vista Cruiser or Ford Country Squire (with the cool 2-way tailgate), or the Chevy Impala. Of course, the trailers were a lot smaller then too, and slide-outs had not been invented yet.
> 
> As far as a monocoque chassis goes, that would be great and could save a lot of weight, but I think the tooling would be prohibitively expensive. Especially considering the low volumes we are talking about with RV's. A FRP (Fiber Reinforced Plastic... i.e.: fiberglass) chassis would be more reasonable cost wise, but in the end it might not save you any weight.
> 
> ...


Hmmm....smaller TT....smaller TV's ???? Better get that truck _soon_!


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I sure like those european models... Sweet units.. Thanks for all the links jdpm..










This is what we will be seeing more of here.. Dont know the car brand, looks volvoish.. Maybe a 3.0 v6 or a 2.5 4cylinder pulling a 23-24 foot trailer.. They have been doing this for years.. We have tons of car models here that could pull that trailer.. We have a lot to learn from the europeans with RV's.. Boy I'd sure like to see one in person!

Carey


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Some Pictures are now up on Keystones Website

It has similar lines to an Outback


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Look







ALL brown cabinets!


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

rdvholtwood said:


> Look
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is not an outback...........all of keystones other lines have similar brown color cabinets...........as does the whole industry in general.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Need more info!!!


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

clarkely said:


> Look
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is not an outback...........all of keystones other lines have similar brown color cabinets...........as does the whole industry in general.
[/quote]

I know, but, you have to admit it looks....very simalar though!!


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

rdvholtwood said:


> Look
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually, they look like they are 2-Tone Brown (center panels looks darker)







Not only that, but it looks like the _Common Brown Nauga _is about to become endangered









The exterior may have some of the lines of an Outback, but the interior looks (to me, anyway







) like all the other RVs out there....dark. Nothing wrong with that - they do have the Bullet in the Lower $ bracket and I do like our Outbacks remaining unique.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Yeah... I think I'll stick with the Outback.








Reminds me a lot of the ill-fated Zeppelin line.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

wolfwood said:


> Look
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually, they look like they are 2-Tone Brown (center panels looks darker)







Not only that, but it looks like the _Common Brown Nauga _is about to become endangered









The exterior may have some of the lines of an Outback, but the interior looks (to me, anyway







) like all the other RVs out there....dark. Nothing wrong with that - they do have the Bullet in the Lower $ bracket and I do like our Outbacks remaining unique.
[/quote]

The cabinet doors are all one color, that one door looks darker to the grain and the Picture..

I agree the interior looks like every other RV out there.......

In talking of similar lines....I was referring to the rounded front.......

I like the Exterior, especially the 1 Piece front Cap. I would love to see that on my Out Back


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

PDX_Doug said:


> Yeah... I think I'll stick with the Outback.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree - I like my Outback also - even though I would prefer all the same color cabinets







- I guess if we go the camping show next year we'll get a closer look...


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