# Brake Pads And Rotors



## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

I have to do my brakes on my truck. I can do the maintenance but I know little about the whys and wherefors. The difference between the hi-performance rotors and standard rotors is quite steep. Are the hi-performance rotors worth the expense? And, do you suggest mettalic brake pads or ceramic? Any helpful suggestions are appreciated.

Scott


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Moosegut said:


> I have to do my brakes on my truck. I can do the maintenance but I know little about the whys and wherefors. The difference between the hi-performance rotors and standard rotors is quite steep. Are the hi-performance rotors worth the expense? And, do you suggest mettalic brake pads or ceramic? Any helpful suggestions are appreciated.
> 
> Scott


Scott,

Since you have a 1/2 ton and are pulling quite a load I would upgrade. We all know 1/2 Ton truck brakes are actually car brakes and your not doing a "car like job" with that truck.I think that you should go to a Ford forum then into a towing section and see if you can find anybody who knows what they are doing.

I think it would actually be a very worth while endeavor to see if you can upgrade to stock 3/4 ton rotors although that probably means changing out the calipers as well. Wonder if that wouldn't be cheaper then buying the high performance ones as they likely come at a premium via having a smaller market to sell to.

I say this because you could get more high performance stuff that don't last as long, e.g. race car crap that is meant to be changed often. In other words they will stop you better but don't come with a guarantee that they last longer. I would also invest in a micrometer and keep it around to measure your rotors in the future. Rotors warping is generally a myth so don't go and get them cut all the time. They are made lighter on purpose to save weight.

Hope that helps,
Mike C


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## freefaller25 (Mar 19, 2006)

Hi Scott,

A big no in my case to the ceramics when towing. Your rotors might last one or two trips before warping.

My first brake job was with Raybestos PG pluss rotors and quiet stop II ceramic pads. The plan was to keep the wheels more clean. The wheels were nice and clean but the rotos were nice and blue, all the way to the hub, after the first two trips with the outback. This was never an issue with the OEM setup. The rotors were out by 0.025" when I replaced them. I don't ever turn rotors.

I am on the sceond brake job now with discount rotors and Raybestos PG pads. Warped rotors again but no sign of heat. Rotors are grey so it is maybe the pads transfering material to the rotor this time.

To date the OEM setup was the best. I never had any problem except the brake dust.

Tony


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## kjdj (Sep 14, 2004)

I had looked into the upgrade when the dealer asked me why would they put trailer brakes on the trailer?

Good point. 
The truck brakes are to stop the truck. The trailer brakes are to stop the trailer.

Interesting point about 1/2ton trucks have car brakes. I'll have to ponder that one.

Kevin


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## imabeachbum (Mar 24, 2006)

I upgraded the brakes on my 2000 Tundra after pulling my camper just a couple of times. Between the brake improvements and upgrading to the prodigy controller, my rig feels much more under control now when I stop normally or the couple of times for the white knuckle stop. Im not sure which made the bigger difference or if its the combination of both, but with both, the stopping power of my rig has improved markedly. Just for the heck of it, below are the links to the Rotor & Pads. The third link isn't where I bought the items, but found useful for comparison.

Hope this helps and good luck in your search,

Regards

Alan

PowerSlot Rotors

Hawk Brake Pads

Auto Parts Warehouse


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

freefaller25 said:


> Hi Scott,
> 
> A big no in my case to the ceramics when towing. Your rotors might last one or two trips before warping.
> 
> ...


I agree with Tony. His experience is typical of most people I know who have used the ceramic pads. Any machinist will tell you that they have used ceramic cutting tool inserts to machine steel (and some brake/muffler shops use them to turn rotors). The pads are engineered to be the wear item in the brake system. The ceramic pads will eat up the rotors! The ceramic pads will last a lifetime, for sure (and they should for waht they cost!) - but which would you rather replace every 15,000-20,000 miles - the pads or the rotors?

I vote NO. Go with the larger calipers and heavier rotors if you want to improve braking capacity with no fade. That's what the manufacturers do when you buy a truck with a towing package. The wheels won't stay as clean, but you'll be safer and it will be less expensive in the long run.

Just my $.02.

Mike


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

Scoutr2 said:


> I agree with Tony. His experience is typical of most people I know who have used the ceramic pads. Any machinist will tell you that they have used ceramic cutting tool inserts to machine steel (and some brake/muffler shops use them to turn rotors). The pads are engineered to be the wear item in the brake system. The ceramic pads will eat up the rotors! The ceramic pads will last a lifetime, for sure (and they should for waht they cost!) - but which would you rather replace every 15,000-20,000 miles - the pads or the rotors?
> 
> I vote NO. Go with the larger calipers and heavier rotors if you want to improve braking capacity with no fade. That's what the manufacturers do when you buy a truck with a towing package. The wheels won't stay as clean, but you'll be safer and it will be less expensive in the long run.
> 
> ...


Ohhhh, you suggest I change out the calipers too? Hmmm. Now we're talkin money, arent we? I know my family's safety is paramount, but do I need larger calipers since the TT has its own brakes?


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

Agree with the friction pad upgrade to a quality product like the Hawk link above. Not so impressed with long term life on cross drilled or slotted rotors. A high quality replacement rotor and Hawk pads will be as good as it gets with out alot of money being spent ..... Make sure you flush the brake fluid too as it is past due if it has not been done yet since new.

Map guy


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

Moosegut said:


> I agree with Tony. His experience is typical of most people I know who have used the ceramic pads. Any machinist will tell you that they have used ceramic cutting tool inserts to machine steel (and some brake/muffler shops use them to turn rotors). The pads are engineered to be the wear item in the brake system. The ceramic pads will eat up the rotors! The ceramic pads will last a lifetime, for sure (and they should for waht they cost!) - but which would you rather replace every 15,000-20,000 miles - the pads or the rotors?
> 
> I vote NO. Go with the larger calipers and heavier rotors if you want to improve braking capacity with no fade. That's what the manufacturers do when you buy a truck with a towing package. The wheels won't stay as clean, but you'll be safer and it will be less expensive in the long run.
> 
> ...


Ohhhh, you suggest I change out the calipers too? Hmmm. Mow we're talkin money, arent we? I know my family's safety is paramount, but do I need larger calipers since the TT has its own brakes?
[/quote]

Only you can be the judge of whether your braking capacity is good enough. But I do know that the towing package on GM trucks and SUVs includes the heavy duty rotors (more mass) and larger calipers and pads. The larger pads increase the surface area that contacts the rotors - thus more friction - thus more braking capacity. And with the increased friction comes more heat - hence the heavier duty rotors to absorb and disperse the heat.

A good point was made earlier about the TV brakes only needing to stop the truck because the trailer has its own brakes. If your trailer brakes are in good working order and you have the controller adjusted properly, it shouldn't be an issue. But I am a worry-wart about this kind of stuff. I want the extra capacity on my TV, just in case!

Decisions, decisions! How much is enough or too much. I think this is just a personal preference thing - just like me swapping out the factory GM hitch for a good Putnam hitch. Better safe than sorry (and peace of mind for a worry free trip).

Good luck with this decision. Anyone else - am I worried too much?

Mike


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

I too burned up my rotors using the Raybestos ceramic pads on my halfer. Won't make that mistake again. Just put good quality metallic pads on and you will be fine.

If you don't turn the rotors then take a green scotch-brite scrubbing pad and rough them up real good. Enough to take the shine off them. You can also help prevent squeaking by doing two things:

1. Use the blue sticky spray adhesive on the back of the pads.
2. Take a file and round off the edges of the pads. (old mechanic trick)

While you're there be sure to clean and lube the moving parts of the caliper. See your parts man for the proper lube to do this.

And I agree, let the trailer brakes stop the trailer. You will be fine.

Good Luck


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## Rubrhammer (Nov 27, 2006)

Here is a good artcle on types of brakes and breaking them in.
Bob
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml
My oops


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

Rubrhammer said:


> Here is a good artcle on types of brakes and breaking them in.
> Bob


Where?


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## RizFam (Feb 25, 2006)

Hey Scott,

John said he doesn't have any helpful advice, but he'd be more than happy to come over & help you when you decide to do it.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

NJMikeC said:


> I have to do my brakes on my truck. I can do the maintenance but I know little about the whys and wherefors. The difference between the hi-performance rotors and standard rotors is quite steep. Are the hi-performance rotors worth the expense? And, do you suggest mettalic brake pads or ceramic? Any helpful suggestions are appreciated.
> 
> Scott


Scott,

Since you have a 1/2 ton and are pulling quite a load I would upgrade. We all know 1/2 Ton truck brakes are actually car brakes and your not doing a "car like job" with that truck.I think that you should go to a Ford forum then into a towing section and see if you can find anybody who knows what they are doing.

I think it would actually be a very worth while endeavor to see if you can upgrade to stock 3/4 ton rotors although that probably means changing out the calipers as well. Wonder if that wouldn't be cheaper then buying the high performance ones as they likely come at a premium via having a smaller market to sell to.

I say this because you could get more high performance stuff that don't last as long, e.g. race car crap that is meant to be changed often. In other words they will stop you better but don't come with a guarantee that they last longer. I would also invest in a micrometer and keep it around to measure your rotors in the future. Rotors warping is generally a myth so don't go and get them cut all the time. They are made lighter on purpose to save weight.

Hope that helps,
Mike C
[/quote]

Mike here we go again.. 1/2 has car brakes? Where do you come up with that!

Maybe 15-20 years ago... But no more!

A 2001 F150 has 13.2 inch front rotors and it has 12.13 inch rear rotors...

NOW GET THIS!!!
A 2001 F250 SuperDuty has 13.03 inch front, and 12.83inch for the rear.

There is a small difference in Rotor thickness, and a small difference in the size of the brake pad between the two.. Also the F250 uses twin piston calipers versus the F150 which uses a single piston caliper.. So yes the F250 has better braking power, but the F150 is a fairly close match to it..

The F150's brakes are oversiszed.. They used to be 11 inches about 15 years ago..

I wish people would quit comparing 1/2 tons to cars.. That went away about 1990..

The 2001 Ford F150 has a brake pad that is twice as big as a Ford Crown Victoria!

Just take your rotors to the local parts store.. they will mic them and check em for proper thickness.. They will check for warpage, and tell you wheather they need turned or not, or can be turned or not.. Try your local NAPA or Carquest.. They have the best quality parts as they are the closest match to the Ford Dealer..

Put NAPA's best brake pad on and all will be good.. Trust me!

Carey

EDIT
The swept area is the amount of braking area in, I guess you could say power.. This is braking surface area..

The F150 has 254.20 front
143.2 rear

The F250 has 264.48 front
244.81 rear

So the front brakes on the two are very close... The F250 has much more braking power in the rear, which is only needed in heavy tow situations..

These numbers are twice what cars are.. They are in the mid 100's in swept braking area.. Anytime your braking area is above 200 you have excellent brakes..


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

RizFam said:


> Hey Scott,
> 
> John said he doesn't have any helpful advice, but he'd be more than happy to come over & help you when you decide to do it.


Oh sure. In a supervisory capacity I bet.


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## Rubrhammer (Nov 27, 2006)

For those that missed the edit.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml


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## RizFam (Feb 25, 2006)

Moosegut said:


> Hey Scott,
> 
> John said he doesn't have any helpful advice, but he'd be more than happy to come over & help you when you decide to do it.


Oh sure. In a supervisory capacity I bet.








[/quote]

Well that you'll have to discuss w/ him


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

RizFam said:


> Hey Scott,
> 
> John said he doesn't have any helpful advice, but he'd be more than happy to come over & help you when you decide to do it.


Oh sure. In a supervisory capacity I bet.








[/quote]

Well that you'll have to discuss w/ him







[/quote]

Hey, I just had an idea. I'll save the job until the weekend of the 13th - that way he'll HAVE to help me. He'll be a captive.


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## RizFam (Feb 25, 2006)

That works just have to OK that w/ the real boss in this family ............. John Luke


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I also went back and edited my post to include the swept area also.. The F150 is very close to the F250 on the front... The F250 has much more braking power in the rear versus the F150.. But for a 1/2 ton your brakes are excellent!

Actually twice the size of a car like a crown vic..

Carey


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## Swany (Mar 2, 2006)

NJMikeC said:


> I have to do my brakes on my truck. I can do the maintenance but I know little about the whys and wherefors. The difference between the hi-performance rotors and standard rotors is quite steep. Are the hi-performance rotors worth the expense? And, do you suggest mettalic brake pads or ceramic? Any helpful suggestions are appreciated.
> 
> Scott


Scott,

Since you have a 1/2 ton and are pulling quite a load I would upgrade. We all know 1/2 Ton truck brakes are actually car brakes and your not doing a "car like job" with that truck.I think that you should go to a Ford forum then into a towing section and see if you can find anybody who knows what they are doing.

I think it would actually be a very worth while endeavor to see if you can upgrade to stock 3/4 ton rotors although that probably means changing out the calipers as well. Wonder if that wouldn't be cheaper then buying the high performance ones as they likely come at a premium via having a smaller market to sell to.

I say this because you could get more high performance stuff that don't last as long, e.g. race car crap that is meant to be changed often. In other words they will stop you better but don't come with a guarantee that they last longer. I would also invest in a micrometer and keep it around to measure your rotors in the future. Rotors warping is generally a myth so don't go and get them cut all the time. They are made lighter on purpose to save weight.

Hope that helps,
Mike C
[/quote]
Go with metalic pads. You can upgrade the rotors if you want the fluted ones are supposed to dissapate heat better. As far as 3/4 ton stuff, that's a big no. You are going from 5 to 8 lugs.


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

The big thing is to make sure the brakes you have, no matter whether they are OEM or aftermarket, are in good shape, and that the brakes on the TT need to be checked and adjusted on a regular basis too!

Tim


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

Rubrhammer said:


> For those that missed the edit.
> http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml


"run-out due to hot spotting that occurred at elevated temperatures."

Um, isn't that "warped"? I guess it can be attributed to darn near anything, but when the old pulsating pedal is cured with a light cleanup cut, you can call it a warped rotor and that's close enough for me. Just .005 to .007 lateral runout can cause a significant pulsation. It also helps to torque fasteners in the proper rotation and progressively, especially on smaller cars. They seem, in many cases, to be especially susceptible to ills caused by uneven or over-tightening.

Sluggo


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## Rubrhammer (Nov 27, 2006)

I think what they are referring to is localized thickspots due to heat vs the rotor warping where the front and back surface both move in the same direction leaving a high spot on one surface and a low spot on the opposite surface. Does this sound reasonable?
Bob


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