# Ford 1/2 Ton Towing Claims



## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

I commented on this in the RV mod site thread , but thought it deserved it's own posting in the towing section for those researching tow capabilities.
Appears I was not the only one qestioning Fords 1/2 ton towing claims. I wish ford would make their towing data less ambiguous.

Ford 1/2 ton Towing claims

Article Here - Good read


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## Compulynx (Oct 15, 2008)

I don't care what they say (But maybe they should) I would not want to pull 11,000 lbs with ANY half ton pickup.

C


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

x2 on not wanting to tow 11,000 lbs with a 1/2 ton!!!

Many of us have stated this in the past: Max tow rating is a marketing tool, in the same way that Horsepower is.








Everyone should be looking at GVWR and GCWR's to determine the actual max trailer that can be towed. If you look at the Ford Towing Guide, you need to understand that those numbers are for the un-optioned truck without passengers or cargo.

I really wish that all of the manufacturers (they all do it by the way) would simply state their numbers clearly on a single page. Heck, maybe it should be on the window sticker:

*This Truck weighs xx,xxx lbs at the end of the line with a full tank of fuel
The GVWR is xx,xxx lbs
All passengers, cargo, trailer tounge weight must not exceed x,xxx lbs (GVWR-Empty weight)

The GCWR is xx,xxx lbs
All passengers, cargo, total trailer weight must not exceed x,xxx lbs (GCWR-Empty weight) *

I'd also like to see:
*Recommend trailer side area to be below xxx ft^2
User responsible for fuctional sway control of trailer and weight distribution to keep hitch and rear axlw below maximum weights
Trailer frontal area to be below xx ft^2
*


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

Yep !!! I agree . 
I think it's shameful Ford advertises on a national level through media and misleads new folks getting into towing with boastful non accurate claims. It misleads new TV / TT people trying to gather information so they will be safe on the roads. No one starts out wanting to be a danger to themselves and others and claims such as these go a long way mis-informing the public trying to do the right thing while towing. Thank god for this OB site .. and those that find it while researching data. If MFG's want to use puffing tactics to boost sales that's one thing, But when it misleads the public regarding safety issues thats another IMHO.
I agree with Nathen - put it on the window sticker .


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Scooter said:


> Yep !!! I agree .
> I think it's shameful Ford advertises on a national level through media and misleads new folks getting into towing with boastful non accurate claims. It misleads new TV / TT people trying to gather information so they will be safe on the roads. No one starts out wanting to be a danger to themselves and others and claims such as these go a long way mis-informing the public trying to do the right thing while towing. Thank god for this OB site .. and those that find it while researching data.


They all do it. "It" in this case being "advertises on a national level through media and misleads new folks getting into XYZ with boastful non accurate claims"

Dodge Ram commericals with trucks flying off of flaming hills.
Toyota Tundra commercials with trucks climbing a spiralling pillar of flaming doom.
Chevy commericals featuring Howie Long insinuating F150's with tailgate steps have owners that are prancing sissies.

-CC


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

Scooter said:


> I commented on this in the RV mod site thread , but thought it deserved it's own posting in the towing section for those researching tow capabilities.
> Appears I was not the only one qestioning Fords 1/2 ton towing claims. I wish ford would make their towing data less ambiguous.
> 
> Ford 1/2 ton Towing claims
> ...


Not that i care, but i really dont believe everything that guy says since some of his facts are off. The tundra's with the 5.7 have 4:30 gears and not 4:10, that alone makes a difference in towing. As for the boxed frame...my father 3500 Dmax is open channel, does this make the f150 more capable.

Ford like everyone else is caught in a a big marketing plan and yes i think they did feel threatened when others starting showing more capable 1/2 ton trucks.

No, i wouldnt be hooking up a 10000lb trailer to any half ton truck, no matter what brand name is on the hood.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

i dont want to get in to a large discussion but i will offer my thoughts and experience. I had a 2004 F150, 5.4L, LWB, Tow Package, etc.
I originally towed a 30' 9600 lb boat with it. It pulled perfect, with no sway controll or WD. I was within a couple hundred pounds of the limits (over) and really only did it a few times a year moving it from one marina to another, across state or up north, etc. i was convinced that the 32BHDS would be just fine as the weights were to be similar. boy was I wrong. Pulling a TT is completely different than pulling a boat both of equal weight. The aerodynamic effects on the system create completely different reactions.

Long story short...its not always the weight, its also the areodynamics of the trailer. Im not defending any 1 company or "size" truck im just stating that the weights claimed (certainly understanind the fine print) may not apply in your situation but could apply in others.

I agree with Nathans comments that a note on the surface area of the trailer weights wuoted in thier adds might aid in the selection and help the buyer narrow down the proper TV choice. bit of coarse, they will give the max ratings in optimal conditions, its our job to do the homework and determine if it works on our situation.

No on the otherhand... I had overheard my boat dealer commenting to a customer that they tow "these" 10k lb boats around the yard with thier tractor, of coarse they could use an explorer to tow it. He certainly was not all that bright.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

collinsfam_tx said:


> Yep !!! I agree .
> I think it's shameful Ford advertises on a national level through media and misleads new folks getting into towing with boastful non accurate claims. It misleads new TV / TT people trying to gather information so they will be safe on the roads. No one starts out wanting to be a danger to themselves and others and claims such as these go a long way mis-informing the public trying to do the right thing while towing. Thank god for this OB site .. and those that find it while researching data.


They all do it. "It" in this case being "advertises on a national level through media and misleads new folks getting into XYZ with boastful non accurate claims"

Dodge Ram commericals with trucks flying off of flaming hills.
Toyota Tundra commercials with trucks climbing a spiralling pillar of flaming doom.
Chevy commericals featuring Howie Long insinuating F150's with tailgate steps have owners that are prancing sissies.

-CC
[/quote]
x2
The advertising has gotten out of control and is encouraging people to overload their trucks. You're not going to see the problem with people who use their trucks every day for work. Rather the weekend warriors that buy trucks because of the adrennaline rush that a commercial provided...








Hopefully the good news from cooling truck sales will be the manufacturer's focusing more on acutal capabilities rather than how quickly they can go from 0-60-0 while racing toward a canyon...


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

They're all doing it to survive under tremendous pressure to meet CAFE standards, while still trying to "say" that their trucks can do this or that. We have not discussed this much here, but our way of life as RVr's is threatened as our tow vehicles are personified as evil indulgences.

Sorry to come out of left field with this, but this kind of thing will become even more typical as manufacturers attempt to meet objectives that are diametrically opposed to each other. I suspect that there will be a real good market for old tow vehicles some day. Perhaps sooner than you think.

In the meantime since there is no technology available to sufficiently boost fuel performance and still allow you to tow that 11,000# trailer, they will continue to skirt the issue with ambiguity.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Sayonara said:


> ...Long story short...its not always the weight, its also the areodynamics of the trailer. Im not defending any 1 company or "size" truck im just stating that the weights claimed (certainly understanind the fine print) may not apply in your situation but could apply in others.


Honda acutally has different tow ratings for boats vs trailers because they are "more aerodynamic".

BTW, Ford does have frontal area listed in their towing guide. For the trucks is is 60 sq ft of frontal area with this disclaimer:
"FRONTAL AREA CONSIDERATIONS
Frontal area is the total area in square feet that a moving vehicle and
trailer exposes to air resistance. The chart shows the limitations that must
be considered in selecting a vehicle/trailer combination. Exceeding these
limitations may significantly reduce the performance of your towing vehicle.
Selecting a trailer with a low-drag, rounded front design will help optimize
performance and fuel economy."

Good thing the Outback's have that rounded nose!


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

When we purchased our OB from Ehlers RV .. Being novices (somewhat we had already joined this site and I read all I could regarding towing and received a lot of help from those here.) However I did ask the question at the RV dealership "can my truck tow this trailer" (kinda more as a test to see what they would say). 
I had an F-150 at the time.

Lisa , the sales person and Jim the financial guy said yes I believe it can but before we sell you the outback lets take a few moments and run the numbers to be sure. We want you safe. Now that's a what I want in a RV dealership. Yes they are there to sell RV's , but they were also concerned with ensuring we were safe on the road for us and others around us when towing.

Needless to say when we upgrade ..They have my loyalty .. I'll not spend my future $$ anywhere else if at all possible when I upgrade.

Now wouldn't it be refreshing if a Auto MFG took the same approach?? We here at (x company) are concerned for your safety ..so while other boast x towing capacity we are here to say our's can't. But what our truck can do is what we *designed* it to do and that is to Tow XXXXXX lbs *Safely*. Wow honestly and truth in advertising - There's a concept!!!


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Scooter said:


> When we purchased our OB from Ehlers RV .. Being novices (somewhat we had already joined this site and I read all I could regarding towing and received a lot of help from those here.) However I did ask the question at the RV dealership "can my truck tow this trailer" (kinda more as a test to see what they would say).
> I had an F-150 at the time.
> 
> Lisa , the sales person and Jim the financial guy said yes I believe it can but before we sell you the outback lets take a few moments and run the numbers to be sure. We want you safe. Now that's a what I want in a RV dealership. Yes they are there to sell RV's , but they were also concerned with ensuring we were safe on the road for us and others around us when towing.
> ...


Sounds like a great dealer!!

When the Super Duty was on order and we were 5'er shopping, one trailer dealer near us was showing us a 39' fifth wheel(one of those 3 bedroom 1 1/2 bath models). The salesman was doing his best to sell it including claiming it was only 35' because "you don't count the part over the bed of the truck."









Well, we climbed out of the trailer and he asked about our truck. I nodded to the F150 Super crew with 5 1/2 foot bed that we had at the time. You could see the look on his face of how he could possibly spin it. He finally muttered something about the trailer being a stretch for the truck and that I should probably upgrade to at least a F250. It was fun to watch him sweat until I admitted that I had a F350 on order.








Then it was back to the sales job.


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## shaela21 (Aug 16, 2005)

That was an excellent article explaining the different weights and their meanings. As far as ford towing that much, they need to give their head a shake. Why compromise people safety over a sale rating? In my opinion, any trailer over 9000 lbs should be pulled with a 3/4 ton.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

shaela21 said:


> That was an excellent article explaining the different weights and their meanings. As far as ford towing that much, they need to give their head a shake. Why compromise people safety over a sale rating? In my opinion, any trailer over 9000 lbs should be pulled with a 3/4 ton.


They all quote tow ratings within a couple hundred pounds of each other, all with the same restrictions.


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## outback loft (Sep 22, 2008)

Well just to throw this off a bit more. I have an E-350 Box van for work. The truck weighs in at 6800 lbs with the fiberglass box on it. The GCWR is stated to be 16,000 lbs. Now for the kicker, the truck does have 4.10's and the suspension to handle the weight, but the 5.4 liter motor that that put in in sure as hell would be working do pull that weight. In some inspection of the truck, the brakes are in fact 4 wheel disc, but with smaller rotors, than my 1500 Chevy which also has 4 wheel disc brakes. I have a fleet of trucks for work with no particular brand loyalty. Out of everything the Ford eats through brakes, the Dodge needed a new tranny at 120,000, an the Chevy has had brakes as well. We have had a Toyota and a Nissan as well, and when it came down to it they did not hold up to the abuse of workers not caring about the vehicles. We do also have a Mitsubishi LCR diesel truck that has held up great and has had very little done to it (for the 350,000 miles it now has on it)


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## russlg (Jul 21, 2008)

It is also important to remember WHO is producing the ad, usually an independent advertising and marketing firm whose job it is to make a product better on film or print than its competitors. Not an excuse for Ford, mind you. What I don't get is why bother with a 3/4 ton?? The price difference between an F250 and an F350 equally equipped is minimal and you get better resale value with the 1 ton. At the Ford dealer I work at, we don't stock any F250's. We just sell F150's and F350's. NONE of the trucks on our lot have any lower than 3.73 gears, (no 3.55's and ALL are LS) and we have snow plow prep on the all F350's (We sell Meyer Plows) and both the 150's and the 350's have Towing packages. It is the bigger Ford stores that order the trucks poorly equipped to get the "sticker" price down so they can claim to be cheaper. Thus the inadequate tow vehicles. We educate our customers. I could have told him what the tow ratings were for the F150 on the spot had he called me, I have the last four years Ford towing guides right beside my terminal and have access to updated info on the web.


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

Is not the curb weight higher on the 350 and so overall lower GCWR ....
If one was towing a trailer would it not make sense to purchase the f250 ? 
and conversely 
If one was hauling a 5th wheel would it not make sense to purchase the 
F350 due to higher payload capacity?

Or am I not thinking this through correctly ?


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Scooter said:


> Is not the curb weight higher on the 350 and so overall lower GCWR ....
> If one was towing a trailer would it not make sense to purchase the f250 ?
> and conversely
> If one was hauling a 5th wheel would it not make sense to purchase the
> ...


Nope, you've got it correct, if the GCWR is the same and the truck is heavier, then yes, it would not be able to technically pull as much weight. However, I highly doubt there is much difference in weight since the main difference in the trucks is the rear springs. I bet the Lariat option package adds more weight than the stiffer rear springs!

Actually on the Ford site you can see this when comparing SRW to Dually F350's (where the weight difference is significant):

Vehicle______ - GCWR__ - Tow Rating (fifth wheel)
F350 SRW 4x4 - 23000 lbs - 15300 lbs
F350 DRW 4x4 - 23500 lbs - 15200 lbs

So based on that the SRW could tow a heavier 5th wheel than a DRW








But, don't forget the payload capacity to support the hitch and pin weight (a 15k 5er will be 3-4k on the bed):

Vehicle______ - GVWR___ - Payload
F350 SRW 4x4 - 11500 lbs - 3640 lbs
F350 DRW 4x4 - 13000 lbs - 4830 lbs

So, if you want to be able to have options on the truck, haul a family, some gear and a 15k 5'er, you need the dually









Oh, for the fun of it, the same SRW truck with the 6.8L rather than the diesel would have these specs showing that the less powerful Gas engine can tow a heavier trailer than that Diesel beast:

GCWR__ - Tow Rating (fifth wheel) - GVWR__ - Payload
22500 lbs - 16000 lbs__________ - 11200 lbs - 4170 lbs

_One last disclaimer: This comparison was using 5th wheel's. If you look at the conventional towing ratings, they are much more confusing. This is because the base hitch is 12,500 lb capable and the upgraded hitch is 15,000 lb capable (There's also a 16k capable hitch for certain dually setups)._

Hope this helps.


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## Dub (Dec 8, 2008)

He compared the F150 to the Tundra a few times in the article. Tundra's have 4.33 rearends, not 4.10's like he stated, giving them a bit of an advantage. They also have bigger rotors, ring gears, and tie rods than any of the 1ton trucks on the market. Sport Truck also tested the 1500's and found that the Tundra had a 0-60 time with a 6500lbs trailer in tow that was faster than all of the other trucks unloaded except Nissan which was off by .5/sec. These trucks are built to tow and that's that. We used Dodge 3/4 and 1 ton trucks for years at work to tow trailers and now we have a Ford Fleet and as someone who has spent many miles in all three trucks towing I would say the Tundra pulls my 9500lbs trailer as well as any of the others. Sure it might be a little slower than the diesels on a steep hill but I find it funny that the Tundra is often compared to 3/4 and 1 ton trucks instead of other half tons. The only weak point in the truck is the payload, it's a 1/2 ton truck payload, however, it is a towing beast and I would feel comfortable and safe with my family taking it right up to my 10,300lbs limit which Toyota promises right in the manual that it's not a "fantasy" rating and that every pound is there for us to use.


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

My response to Dub -







- Just kidding
Found this Humorous -

Fords in background of Toyota video
By Robert Schoenberger - The Courier-Journal

It's one of the most dramatic commercials for Toyota Motor Co.'s redesigned Tundra pickup. A truck drives up a steep seesaw, towing a heavy load and is able to stop on the way down, despite the extra weight. Toyota is so proud of the commercial that it posted behind-the-scenes footage to its Web site. That's where eagle-eyed Ford Motor Co. fans notice something. Ford trucks can be seen in the background at the job site.

Calls to Toyota U.S. sales and marketing officials in California were not immediately returned this morning. The first truck visible in the video is a Ranger pickup with a camper shell on it. The next is a Louisville-built F-Series Super Duty truck. As the video's director watches to see if the Tundra will be able to stop, the truck in the background is another Super Duty. The background issues underscore the challenge that Toyota faces in launching a truck in a market dominated by Ford and General Motors. Last year, Ford President of the Americas Mark Fields underscored that issue by driving by the San Antonio, Texas, site where, at the time, Toyota was finishing the plant that builds the new Tundra. As Fields pointed out on a video posted to a Ford-run Web site, most of the trucks on the job site were Fords. *The Ford Superduty trucks were there to tow the seesaw.*

When contacted Fords official response to the Tundra ad was as follows:
The Voice Over at the beginning of the spot says...."It's tough pushing 10,000 lbs up a steep grade". Myth: Toyota would like the audience to believe the trailer is 10,000 lbs. Fact: It's a 5,000 lb truck pulling a 5,000 lb trailer. On the way down the grade, the camera zooms in on the brakes as the vehicles comes to a screeching halt just prior to the end of ramp. Fact The electric brakes on the trailer stop the trailer not the truck. And why does Toyota have bigger brake pads? They need them....their truck is heavier. Stopping distance between our truck and theirs is virtually identical. And why does Toyota have a 6 speed transmission? To improve their fuel economy....which is still 2 mpg less than ours. And don't forget....their big V8 has one axle ratio -- a 4.3. Fuel Guzzler. Our trucks offer several axle options to optimize towing and fuel economy. Bottom line: OUR TRUCK IS BETTER! 
________________________________________________________________________________

Please take this post all in fun - I found the article and wanted to post as a humorous post - don't want to start truck wars. 
This is more directed at all the Hollywood mini movie ads the auto industry is creating. Just poking fun at the auto industry competing for sales.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

A tundra has bigger rotors than a 1 ton.. lol Bigger ring gears, lol

Rear ring gear on my dodge is 12+ inches. If I remember right a Toyota is 10 or so and has a pinion gear bearing size just smaller than the old 1 ton dana 60's of yesteryear. All 3/4 ton and 1 tons are now using dana 70 to dana 80's. Gm and dodge have the same American axle which is very close to a dana 80.

A tundra has a rear end comparable to a dana 60 which was the rear gear on 1 tons of the 80's. Most 1 tons of today use a front gear the size of your toy's rear gear.

Rotors on 1 tons are 13 inch which is prolly same as a tundra or any 1/2 ton.

Look up swept area on the brakes and youll see that there is quite a difference between a 1/2 ton, a tundra, and a 1ton. The amount of pistons in the calipers and swept area is the difference. The rotor size isnt as big a deal as it used to be between all trucks since all 1/2 to 1 ton trucks are high 12 to 13 inches. Also check to see if the rear rotors on your tundra are vented. I would bet they are not. A 3/4 and up use vented rotors front and rear.

I bet a tundra uses a rack and pinion steering which always has been weaker than the old gear box's of 1 tons.. Do I wish they made a rack and pinion strong enough to be used in a 1 ton? yep, but they dont so we are stuck with the strong old boxes of yesteryear.

I dont have time to list all the sizes out, but ok tundras are cool and have nicely sized parts comparred to 1/2 tons... But dude give me a break about comparring a tundra to a 1 ton..

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

By the way.. My dodge 1/2 hemi does 0-60 in 5.9 seconds..

There is no way in &&^% that a tundra can do 0-60 towing a 6500lb load in 5.9 seconds..

Maybe my hemi is weird but I have raced em all.. Yes the tundra beats me, but not even by one car length. Im not here to start brand wars, but Dub, give us a break with your tundras claims..

You made me laugh tonight..... Thank you!

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Dub.... This trailer is 40 feet long, with a 1600lb tongue weight. It is under your limit of 10300lbs. It weighs 10063lbs...

Lets see your tundra pull it..... lol

Sorry dude, this would wreck ya.... The box height is around 10 foot 6 and is around 12 in total height. Its frontal area alone would puts the stops on your engine. The tongue weight would bend your un boxed frame. The whip alone from this bad boy would scare the heck out of ya.. I would never want your family to be in a tundra with a 10000lb trailer in tow.. Dude I have already seen a good 5-6 tundra wrecks from guys pushing there trucks limits..

Your truck is a hot rod 1/2 ton and no more...

But since you say you wouldnt be worried of towing to your limits, lets see you pull this trailer which is within your limits...

lol

Had to add that for fun...

Carey


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

I'm sure the Tundra is a great truck !!!
The issue with the Tundra is the same as with any other 1/2 ton - You Max out on GCWR long before you even reach max tow capacity claims.
I played the 1/2 ton game for a while , having to mess with weight distribution etc.. Just got old and I started not looking forward to going camping.

2008 Tundra specs

Double standard cab 5.7l V8 with Tow PKG
Curb Weight 5,145
GVWR = 6,900
GCWR = 16000
max tow 10,600

with 5,145 of Curb weight just by adding 255lbs you have reached max GCWR of 16,000 if you were truly trying to tow 10,600 lbs.

minus tongue weight, gas , driver , passenger , and the Tundra towing capabilities drop significantly are just like all other 1/2 tons 
on the market in what they can truly tow safely and way less than tow capacity claims of 10.600.

And that's not even factoring in a buffer for safety.

any way back on point All the auto MFG'S max tow capacities are HYPE IMHO once you run the numbers. 
And all the MFG's should stop the silly Hollywood movie type ads catering to biggest tow capacity etc..


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Yep couldnt agree more.

Its sad people fall into the beliefs of the hype.

Drop off a mtn pass with 13 inch brakes on a 1/2 ton. Halfway down the hill the brakes are hot. Its because of all the other vairables that makes the difference. Nope people think since there 1/2 ton has 13-14 inch brake rotors it stops as well as a bigger truck.

The truth is a 1/2 ton will out stop a 1 ton empty. The 1 ton with 13 inch rotors will still have a good brake pedal long after a 1/2 ton with 13 inch rotors has totally lost its brakes from overheat.

Reason: 1 tons have better venting, thicker rotors, more pistons on the calipers and more swept area. So in a quick panic stop like we see in the commercials, that 1/2 ton will stop that 10k load... But you drop off a 10% 10 mile mtn pass and that 1/2 ton will have poor brakes less than 1/2 way down.

The 1 ton will have good brakes all the way down.. even though both have same rotor sizes the 1 ton beats the 1/2 ton on all other specs.

The ring gear is another myth... What always breaks on a rear diff... Nope, not the ring gear.. The pinion gear is what breaks... If one will look up the pinion bearing sizes on all 1/2 tons, one will find they are all within .250 of eachother regaurdless of brand.. A ring gear doesnt wear out... But a pinion gear sure does.. One will find that a 1/2 pinion gear is .750 smaller than a 3/4 ton pinion gear..

Knowone ever talks about a 1/2 ton having a semi floating axle versus a 3/4 with a full float axle either.. Thats actually a bigger deal than ring and pinion sizes for people interested in towing. A full float axle will run much cooler than a semi float.. Yea im talking like 100 degrees difference. That 3/4 ton full float will run for 3-500k miles before needing bearings... The 1/2 ton semi float will be worn totally out at 250k... All because of the difference in heat... Heat kills bearings..

So with these mfrs touting rotor and ring gear sizes... None of those means a whole lot, but they have done well in converting there customers.. Makes me laugh..

One thing true is our 1/2 tons of today are approaching the 3/4 and 1 tons we had in the 80's.. Still though the 80's 3/4 tons had our modern day 1/2 tons beat on gvw..

I really enjoy driving my 1/2 ton though.. Its a much more enjoyable truck to be in than my dually.. The dually is a heavy slug and the 1/2 is sporty..

The commercials make us think our 1/2 tons are tougher than the heavier trucks.. Its not good they are doing this... This is causing guys to overload there 1/2 tons and in turn causing wrecks and deaths...

All of them have claims and commercials that are way over the top... I agree, needs to stops... People believe everything they see on TV.. I wish they would all advertise the real stuff, not the unreal stuff..

Carey


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

its starting to sound like another forum on here.....lol

While i would never make a claim that my tundra is a 3/4 or 1 ton it is pretty good for a 1/2. The ring gear is 10.5, about the same as a dana 60. Its the bearings that are sized similiar to 1 ton, there was an article in 4 wheeler magazine comparing the rear end to dana 60, 70 and corp 14 bolts. This still does not make it a full floating 1 ton rear, just a little better than toyotas previous offering and most other 1/2 tons.

As for hot rodding around, i previously owned a ram hemi and although it did have some power it does not have the same as the tundra, nor did it put it to the pavement with the lowest gear offering being 3:92. I havent driven the new ram, but with the upped power i am sure they are compareable now. But i didnt buy this truck to rocket around town....gas still costs too much.

Brakes, the tundra is very impressive for a 1/2 ton, i doubt they are the same thickness as my fathers 3500's. bigger diameter though so its hard to tell which will win the heat disapation race.

I have said before how embarrasing some of the toyota commmercials are, but obviously the competitions marketing groups are just as bad, nice how everyone forgot about the f150 pulling a ship into the harbor and chevy pulling freight trains... although a little more believable than the twisty tower of fire.

Toyota did a good job stepping up wit the new tundra, they sold me and i was a faithful mopar guy.....soon i may be back in one as we all know with my trailer i am shaving years off that tundras life and i definetly need at least a 3/4 ton payload cap.

You boys argue it out, doesnt matter to me for now mine works the 5 times a year that i camp.


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## puffer (Aug 28, 2008)

Ummmm....Can my John Deere 12 hp lawn mower pull my 31fqbhs? Will it pull it with a 20' cargo trailer 7900lbs with a bumper welded hitch? Im kinda confused as my owners manual says i can pull 200lbs and 50 lbs tounge weight.


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

"Ummmm....Can my John Deere 12 hp lawn mower pull my 31fqbhs? Will it pull it with a 20' cargo trailer 7900lbs with a bumper welded hitch? Im kinda confused as my owners manual says i can pull 200lbs and 50 lbs tounge weight."

Touffer
From; John Deere Company

Dear Puffer , 
We received your above inquiry , We at the Deere pride ourselves on the ruggedness of our lawnmowers. 
So when we received your question, we decided to send our technical team outside to find out. (it was a warm Saturday sun shining and we were frankly a bit Bored)

So coordinating with a local RV MFG (Sheila our sales rep dated a guy at RV's R US) we had a similar trailer delivered , The trailer was a OMG_1_Big_dam_rigRKS We hooked our 12 HP lawn mower up. Not sure what the hitch weight was but you should have seen it lift the mowers front wheels in the air. (really cool, but I digress )









Steve from marketing research drew the short straw (seemed fitting really so Jerry rigged it so Steve would lose ) so anyway he climbed on the mower while the rest of us sought shade on the sidelines and cracked open a few Bartyles and James. We are excited to report Steve was able to Tow the OMG_1_Big_dam_rigRKS across the parking lot (Approx 18 feet). Steve drew a rousing applause from the crowd and if it wasn't for the Tech teams small oversight to ensure our mowers brakes would be able to stop it before he climbed on the mower , I would be able to report it would have been 100% success.

As it stand now our tech team was able to recover the mower (with the help of John's Brother in law who owns a wrecker service) once it stopped rolling down the bank with trailer in tow to rest in the creek. You should have seen Steve's life saving leap as trailer and mower exited the parking lot and plunged over the Bank. We scored it 8.6 for form but he received a total aggregate score of 9.9 for bonus points awarded for his blood curdling scream.









We have taken the mower into the shop to see if we can modify the braking system (perhaps installing larger brake pads) before we sucker .er I mean 
ask Steve if he would give it another whirl.

So in answer to your response Yes it can Tow it , It just can't stop it at the moment.

Sincerely, 
Your Saturday support team at the Deere

Nothing mows and Tows like a Deere !!!!!


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

1jeep said:


> nice how everyone forgot about the f150 pulling a ship into the harbor and chevy pulling freight trains... although a little more believable than the twisty tower of fire.


Nobody forgot about that - rather - it is what most of us are trying to emphasize. Again...They all do it. I listed examples from 2 domestic mfg's and Toyota, adding to the example of the 3rd domestic the previous poster talked about. The situation kinda reminds me of the negative ads you see in politics. Nobody likes them and you just have to wonder why they would even put them out in the first place.









-CC


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## TitanFlyer (Feb 5, 2009)

Scooter said:


> "Ummmm....Can my John Deere 12 hp lawn mower pull my 31fqbhs? Will it pull it with a 20' cargo trailer 7900lbs with a bumper welded hitch? Im kinda confused as my owners manual says i can pull 200lbs and 50 lbs tounge weight."
> 
> Touffer
> From; John Deere Company
> ...


I don't care who ya are... that right thar is funny...


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## vtxbud (Apr 4, 2009)

As the old joke goes....in this case , if a salesman's lips are moving...he lyin'


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

California Jim said:


> They're all doing it to survive under tremendous pressure to meet CAFE standards, while still trying to "say" that their trucks can do this or that. We have not discussed this much here, but our way of life as RVr's is threatened as our tow vehicles are personified as evil indulgences.
> 
> Sorry to come out of left field with this, but this kind of thing will become even more typical as manufacturers attempt to meet objectives that are diametrically opposed to each other. I suspect that there will be a real good market for old tow vehicles some day. Perhaps sooner than you think.
> 
> In the meantime since there is no technology available to sufficiently boost fuel performance and still allow you to tow that 11,000# trailer, they will continue to skirt the issue with ambiguity.


I couldn't agree more, Jim. I mentioned this aspect - fuel economy standards and EPA requirements - leading to smaller tow vehicles, which would lead to lighter, smaller RVs some time back. I mentioned that I saw this trend in Europe, when we vacationed in Finland last summer. But I was rebuffed by a few here that made me think I had replied to a topic on RVnet. A few told me that they were sick of hearing about European socialistic thinking and how "this is America and we like our big vehicles on the open road!!!"

Well folks, we're closer now than ever to that scenario. With the near future requiring that the exhaust from tailpipes be cleaner than the air the engine is sucking in (and I ain't kiddin'), and fuel economy standards that will require all vehicles to improve fuel economy, we will soon not be able to buy tow vehicles capable of towing the large 5th wheels and travel trailers. The EU is way ahead of us in these respects and it is a harbinger of things to come for us. It's only a matter of time.

Attitudes must change - or some will be doomed to a life of utter frustration. Heck - California is way ahead of the rest of the US. Last fall, I witnessed our Cat dealer in LA retrofitting almost every machine on their lot with DPFs (Diesel Particulate Filters), in order to comply with California's regs. that were to kick in this year. (Seems like I heard that Arnold moved the date out, in light of the current economic crisis - but sooner or later, the new regs will become law.)

Blast away folks - say what you will - but it is coming.

Mike


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Mike I met a couple today at a rest area on I 55 just south of you today. They had a new Heartland Edge 18 footer. They were towing it with a Toyota Highlander. The Highlander set exactly level too. I ask them what they thought of there combo. They said they had traded there 35 foot 5er and GMC duramax on this.

They said they were getting older, plus with the cost of the fuel on the big truck, maintance, and challenge of keeping the huge rig on the road they decided to downsize.

They said they had owned the 2 new rigs a month and had spent 2 weeks camping to work the bugs out. Now they were heading out on a 8 month journey with there pint sized combo.

They said they felt safer in the lil combo versus the big combo and were getting 15mpg versus 9-10 with there big diesel. They said there Highlander towed there lil 2500 lb 18 foot Edge like it wasnt even back there.. The wife said she was very happy as she loved to help her husband drive and never could with the big rig.. She said she could handle this lil rig very easy.

They said it took a week of camping to adjust to the smaller size but now were used to it and were really happy they downsized..

They were maybe 70 and some really genuine and nice small town type Illinois people.

I totally agree with you Mike. The trend of pint sized campers is coming and coming in a big way, like it or not.

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

And to add to Mikes post. In just a year or two the engine of choice in that F150 will be a Turbocharged 4 cylinder engine that makes around 300 hp at who knows how many rpms..

Yes folks we will shortly have people asking if they can tow that 21-23 footer with there new 4 cylinder F 150...

The V8 engine will be all but gone in less than 5 years like it or not!

CARB, the EPA and CAFE is taking over our lives very soon totally...

This is the tradeoff for Govt help to keep our automakers..

I wager in 5-6 years that the most popular camper that is sold will be 20 or less feet in length.

The big oversized campers we have now will be considered dinosaurs and will be worthless in just a few years... Yea go ahead and laugh... You wait and see what happens to our vehicles after the govt sticks there nose in to what our automakers build..

The european way is not just over the horizon..... Its on the horizon!

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I also wager that the very late blooming Toyota will be left behind with the new extremely economic AMERICAN built vehicles.. Yea laugh away. Stupid Toyota left there roots behind a few years ago and has invested billions into fuel hungry high powered engines.. The american automakers have been building fuel efficiant engines that will out do anything the foreign brands have in there prototype stables.

I think Ford will lead the way on small gas mizing very high powered engines very soon... Toyota will take a bow to them too...

Carey


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## TitanFlyer (Feb 5, 2009)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> I also wager that the very late blooming Toyota will be left behind with the new extremely economic AMERICAN built vehicles.. Yea laugh away. Stupid Toyota left there roots behind a few years ago and has invested billions into fuel hungry high powered engines.. The american automakers have been building fuel efficiant engines that will out do anything the foreign brands have in there prototype stables.
> 
> I think Ford will lead the way on small gas mizing very high powered engines very soon... Toyota will take a bow to them too...
> 
> Carey


Do you think that the shift of world power and economy towards the chinese will affect the future of the auto?


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

A dealer here whose General Manager is a guy I happen to know has prepared for the future. They have Mahindra on the hook to bring a 35mpg small diesel pickup to the market when the time is right. They almost started up last Summer during the fuel price bubble. They decided to wait until the market was ready. Looks like they made the right decision as alot of people around here are a lil wary but are back to buying the big trucks (me included I guess....lol). They will make a killin' if the market swings to Euro-priced fuels and the Gov't. swings us to Euro-style vehicles. Both those things are rather unbelievably, looking like a real possibility. Like Carey says, it's a comin' folks.

-CC


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

In responce to Titan,

Yea maybe for the rest of the world. The emission standards here in north america are set at a higher standard than the rest of the world.

Our govt has demanded efficient smog free cars for years.

Now our govt will get there way, since our automakers are broke from fighting them.

The chinease are still followers when it comes to building cars. The japanease were that way once too. The Japanease emerged from followers to leaders because they set a higher standard of quality.

Since when has anyone seen something of high quality come from China?

American car companies have some new engine designs that the rest of the world doesnt right now. One of them is ford with there new eco boost engines.... Google that..

Yes the japanease have some efficient stuff too, especially with hybrids and electrics... That will be there niche in the new generation of autos.. The americans will build engines that are 1/2 the size of current with the same power of today, and have virtually zero emissions and get double working to triple the fuel mileage of current.

So for the average american like you and I, we have no use for and will have no use for electric vehicles. The Japanease will sell these electric/hybrids moreso around the world than here.

The americans will have the vehicle of choice for the north american power hungry people.. The japanease will become a follower again until they catch the new engine technology from the americans.

The chinease will build cars, but will be plaged by quality and emission issues for years to come.. They dont worry me at all. For the rest of the world though they will be a major builder because of much lower emission standards.

But you know, im just a truck driver who loves reading auto news and enjoys seeing new technolgy. Im also an american who will always support my american brother too in the good times and bad times. Yea, I bleed not only red, but blue and white too..

So Im biased..

Carey


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> In responce to Titan,
> 
> Yea maybe for the rest of the world. The emission standards here in north america are set at a higher standard than the rest of the world.
> 
> ...


Since we digress . . .

It took hitting us over the head with a big stick (Pearl Harbor) to get us to wake up and smell the coffee in 1940, but look what the result was just a decade after WWII ended. We emerged the most powerful, the most techologically advanced, with the ability to manufacture anything and everything ( and sell it to everyone) the world had ever seen. The American spirit will shine again, I'm sure.

Just watch us from here . . .

Mike


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Mike - sure do appreciate the positive words. Thanks - sometimes you need a reminder like that.

-CC


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