# Honda Generators



## Not Yet

OK, I have seen many threads on the generators, single, double, and the parallel kits. Here is a little info I found calling around.
All the info relates to the Honda EU 2000i and all prices include shipping

Wise Sales:
1-- $879 
2 + parallel kit $1980

Mayberry:
1 $899
2 + kit $2038

Big Sky:
1 $879
2+ kit $1850

Big Sky currently the cheapest I have found.
I asked what was in the kit and the answer I got from Wise and Mayberry: Using the parallel ports plus 30 amp circuit breakers they build a box that contains a standard 30 amp RV plug, plus bla bla bla. Could I build it myself? "Well maybe if you were an experienced electrician and could get the proper parts."

The answer from big sky: We do not add a breaker because the units have internal breakers that work well. Can I build one? Sure, we don't really do anything special, just ensure that you use the parallel plugs not the standard 120 outlets because you will not draw a full 30 amps, those plugs are limited to 16.7 amps even when synchronized.
That is why there kit is $90 instead of 200+ (when you buy with the generator).

Searching for the parallel plugs to fit into the generators was not fruitful so it seams to me that if buying 2 or a second, getting a cord from big sky for $90 is not unreasonable.

Finally, has anyone heard of Robin Subaru generators?
http://www.portable-electric-power-generat...n_generator.htm

Thoughts?

Jared


----------



## j1mfrog

Jared

Thanks for the research as I have yet to buy my setup too.







I know that Mayberrys had free shipping, do you know if Big Sky charges for shipping?

Oops, never mind, now I see that the prices include shipping.








I've got to stop skimming.

I think that's the place (Big Sky) I was going to buy my parallel cables from anyway. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ssPageName=WDVW

Haven't heard of the Subaru, but I think I'll keep my distance.

Jim


----------



## vdub

The Subaru looks interesting. Appears to be almost a dead on match for eu2000i, but has just slightly less output. However, I see no mention of running two in parallel. Maybe I missed something as that would be seem to be an obvious thing you would want to do if trying to compete head on with the Honda.

I wish I could see the inards of a real Honda parallel kit as compared to the ones being built by some of the dealers. I know Honda is typically pricey, but the difference between $90 and $200 (believe that's what Honda charges) just seems to be too wide. I wonder what Honda is putting in their circuitry that would drive the price up so much? Maybe nothing.


----------



## j1mfrog

Vdub

I don't think Honda makes the $200 parallel kit.







It's made by Gen-tran. Gen-tran parallel kit

Honda does make a parallel cable set. Here's a link to it at Plano Power. It sells for $40 but it doesn't have a plug. I'm not sure how you connect it.







Plano Power

Here's a good photo of the Honda part on ebay.







Photo of Honda kit on ebay

Now Honda lists both of these parallel kits in their product manual so that tells me... I don't know what that tells me. Look at page 8-9. Honda Power equipment parts catalog chapter 8 I guess it tells me that if I do too much research, I end up confusing myself and arguing in a loop.









I think I'm gonna go with the Big Sky deal. See, I guess I'm not that confused after all.


----------



## j1mfrog

This was a selling point for another parallel kit being sold at the site with the Subaru above.

_The Honda Genreator cables used to parallel a pair of Honda EU2000i or Honda EU3000i generators have a 50AMP socket, which fits absolutely nothing on your RV. To make the Honda Generator cable work, you must ALSO buy a 50AMP plug, and then convert that to a standard 30AMP RV Style socket! These conversion plugs will add a substantial amount of cost to your final price.

Our Parallel Cables, on the other hand DO NOT require this 50 AMP conversion. They are set up, ready to run, with a 30 AMP RV style socket already installed in the box. All you need to do is plug the parallel cables into your generators, and then plug your RV into the box. No conversions, no problems, nothing else to buy - it is ready to run right out of the box!

If you need a different socket style - such as a 30 AMP 120V Twistlock for instance - just email us. We can accomodate most requests. Product enclosure may vary slightly from picture based on the plug receptical requested.

FREE SHIPPING
IN THE
CONTINENTAL USA!

MSRP: $199.99

Your Price: $177.00_

link

And that tells me... I'm still confused.


----------



## vdub

You're right. The internet has made life so much more difficult because research is so easy. It was much nicer when you only had a couple options and you simply said "I'll take that one".


----------



## Not Yet

vdub said:


> I wish I could see the inards of a real Honda parallel kit as compared to the ones being built by some of the dealers. I know Honda is typically pricey, but the difference between $90 and $200 (believe that's what Honda charges) just seems to be too wide. I wonder what Honda is putting in their circuitry that would drive the price up so much? Maybe nothing.
> [snapback]22073[/snapback]​


One good thing is that Big Sky said that they will fully warranty the generators with their cable. That tells me they are fairly confident it will work.

There is one guy on the other forum, that has a very detailed sections about the Honda's and the p-kit. Apparently he ordered one, took it apart, saw nothing to it, return it and made his own. The only thing wrong with his is that it uses the standard outlet plug so he is limited to 16.7 amps. If a decide to order two, should probably wait until my TT gets here, I will go through Big Sky.

Jared


----------



## vdub

Yeah, saw that one. If the standard outlet plug comes unplugged from one of the gens, is it then a hot lead fed from the other gen? Believe it would be.


----------



## kjdj

vdub said:


> Yeah, saw that one. If the standard outlet plug comes unplugged from one of the gens, is it then a hot lead fed from the other gen? Believe it would be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [snapback]22103[/snapback]​


Me too! Nothing to it. parallel the reds & blacks into a 30amp rv outlet and your good to go.

The Honda harness uses semi-covered bannana plugs which are more dangerous in my opinion.

Camping World sells an aftermaket one for $35.00

A BIG BUYING POINT! I wanted the Kawasaki but I bought a Honda plus spent $20 more than mail order at a Local HONDA power equipment dealer. Why?

If I have a problem with it he has the test equipment and techs. to fix it.

These new "inverter" generators ARE NOT like the old "any lawnmower shop can fix em' " generators.

Kevin


----------



## j1mfrog

kjdj said:


> The Honda harness uses semi-covered bannana plugs which are more dangerous in my opinion.
> [snapback]22137[/snapback]​


I agree the banana jacks can be dangerous, but I believe you have to use the banana jack outlets to get the full 30 amp output. You can't get that out of the standard outlets. 16.7 amps is the limit like Jared said. Do you know of a way around that?









Jim


----------



## kjdj

[/qoute]

I agree the banana jacks can be dangerous, but I believe you have to use the banana jack outlets to get the full 30 amp output. You can't get that out of the standard outlets. 16.7 amps is the limit like Jared said. Do you know of a way around that?









Jim
[snapback]22190[/snapback]​[/quote]

Full 30 amp output of the combined EU2000's?
Each EU2000 is rated at 13.3amps or 16.7amps surge. 2 EU2000's linked will yield 26.6amps continuous or 33.4 amps surge.

The "bannaplug" output is parallel to the regular u-ground outlet.

I have 2- EU3000is and have run them together to get 46.6 amps continuous or 50amps surge using the 30amp twistlocks.

Kevin


----------



## j1mfrog

Sorry the pictures below are so small, I don't know how to make them show up big. They are in my Gallery where you can see them larger.

Well after being told that the two outputs were simply wired in parallel, I finally figured that I needed to do a little research on my own. You see Iâ€™ve read a lot about the Honda generators and paralleling and inverter technology on this forum and maybe some others as well







but I never seemed to get the whole picture. Some of it was just wrong; I had read previously that the two outputs were different. Looking back; I donâ€™t know why I would have taken that at face value, it doesnâ€™t make sense.









So I went to the ownerâ€™s manual and got the whole picture, and here it is.










http://www.outbackers.com/forums/uploads/1..._1108151369.jpg

This is the wiring diagram for a Honda EU200i taken from the ownerâ€™s manual, which I downloaded from the Honda site. From this wiring diagram, a person with a working knowledge of electricity can make some important conclusions.

1.	The Banana jack output and the standard three-prong outlet are wired in parallel, just as Kevin stated above. Thanks for that simple eye-opening piece of information Kevin.








2.	The Banana jack output is not protected by a circuit breaker. This is important and leads me to a discussion of the safety of the various methods of paralleling these units.









First I would like to dispel a myth, which I myself am guilty of spreading shy . The myth is that you have to parallel through the banana jack outlets. Some have said that Honda has an auto-synchronization circuit that is only connected through the banana jacks. This is untrue. It is true that the inverter technology utilized by Honda allows this auto-synchronization, but the wiring diagram clearly shows that the two outputs are electrically the same point, so you can parallel with either output.

Now letâ€™s talk safety.







I see four basic methods to parallel. Iâ€™ll list them then talk pros and cons of each. Please feel free to correct me where Iâ€™m wrong or clarify where Iâ€™m vague.

1.	Honda factory made parallel kit.
2.	Three-prong method.
3.	Big Sky method
4.	Mayberrys/Wise sales method (Honda authorized parallel kit)

1.	Honda Parallel Cables (See parts catalog below): The Honda parallel kit is a bit of a mystery to me, I donâ€™t see the advantage, and maybe someone can clear this up for me. It parallels the two generators but the paralleled output still has to come through 16.7 amp receptacles. What do you gain? You donâ€™t have a built in 30 amp breaker on the generator. This method is safe but you donâ€™t really gain anything from your effort. This statement is copied from the Honda parts catalog: â€œParallel Cables: (EU1/EU2 only) links 2 EU1000is or 2 EU2000is â€" Includes ground wire connection. Note: Output is limited by the capacity of the receptacles.â€

Pro: Safe
Con: waste of time and effort.

2.	Three prong method: This method is safe to a degree. Basically what you would do is take three feet or so of heavy-duty extension cord with male ends on them, run them to a box where you would splice them and connect them to a thirty amp female receptacle.

Pro: Breaker protected 
Con #1: If one three-prong lead becomes unplugged with the other generator running, youâ€™ve got a hot plug lying on the ground. It is circuit breaker protected, but still hot.

Con#2: On a heavy draw, if one circuit blows, the other would probably follow immediately. This is not that big of a deal, but Iâ€™d rather run my power through one circuit than two. Personal preference.

3.	The Big Sky Method: Parallels two generators though the banana jack outputs directly to a thirty amp female receptacle.

Pro: Cheap

Con #1: If one of the banana jacks comes out, the other is hot as described above for the three-prong circuits. The risk is higher in one aspect; no circuit breaker protection, but lower in another; the banana jacks used have a built in jacket. (Actually Iâ€™m not sure Big Sky uses these, but they should.)










Con #2: The Big Sky Parallel kit does not have a built in circuit breaker. That would not be a big deal if what they told Jared was true, but it is not.

â€œThe answer from big sky: We do not add a breaker because the units have internal breakers that work well. Can I build one? Sure, we don't really do anything special, just ensure that you use the parallel plugs not the standard 120 outlets because you will not draw a full 30 amps, those plugs are limited to 16.7 amps even when synchronized.
That is why their kit is $90 instead of 200+ (when you buy with the generator).â€ 

Look at the wiring diagram; you wonâ€™t see a circuit breaker on the banana jack output. So what? Well, what that means it that the first protection afforded is at the main circuit breaker on the distribution panel in your camper. If you have a fault between the generators and your camper panel, there is an increased risk of fire, electrical shock, and burning up your $1000 generators. I was previously leaning towards this method. Now I believe that it is too unsafe. I will not risk it.

4.	The Mayberrys/Wise Sales method, AKA the Honda authorized method: (see parts catalog below). This method takes the output from the banana jacks, parallels the two, runs them through a thirty-amp circuit breaker, then to a thirty amp female receptacle.

Pro: Negates con #2 of the Big Sky method with the use of a circuit breaker. Puts the protection at the generators (the source). Pro #2 is that this is a Honda factory authorized part.

Con #1: Same as Big Sky Con #1. If one of the banana jacks comes out, the other is hot as described above for the three-prong circuits. The risk is higher in one aspect; no circuit breaker protection (the circuit breaker is after the splice), but lower in another; the banana jacks used have a built in jacket.

Con #2: Expensive. Probably overpriced in my book. I believe they can get away with this because this part is actually listed in the Honda parts catalog even though Honda does not manufacture it. This setup could probably be built by many of us. But if you buy the one endorsed by Honda, thatâ€™s got to give you a warm fuzzy.

Iâ€™ve said a lot. I really donâ€™t believe too many people are still reading this except for those who are about to make a purchase or who have done this research already.

Feel free to correct me where Iâ€™m wrong.

Hereâ€™s a page from the parts catalog.










http://www.outbackers.com/forums/uploads/1..._1108357001.jpg


----------



## CamperAndy

The Banana jack method of all of the different vendors, how do you ensure polarity? If you plugged one generator into the hot and one into the neutral then flipped the connections on the other generator what would happen at the joined plug (be it 16 amp or 30 amp)?

Looking at the Honda page (those are actually Honda parts aren't they?) you copied there are 3 different Honda kits. The first would allow up to 20 amp at the standard receptacle (on one of the generators). Which is greater then one generator would put out but not as great as having the full output of both. The other two kits are for different 30amp plugs but I can not see the front of them clearly enough to see what the thing is on the right of the box. Is it a breaker?


----------



## j1mfrog

Yes, that is a thiry amp breaker. I'm not sure how you ensure polarity, maybe the two banana jacks are slighlty different, maybe they're just color coded. Good question. I don't know.

The two Honda kits that look the same are just two different receptacles (NEMA L5-30 or NEMA TT-30R). They call one the RV receptacle. They are Honda parts.

http://www.outbackers.com/forums/index.php...&cmd=si&img=288


----------



## Not Yet

Jim,

Thanks for the detailed report. I am still looking and learning.

The polarity issue on the banana plugs was one of the major concerns talked about on .net. Not sure anyone over there ever came up with a solution.

Jared

found Alamia in Denver had a good price also for a set.

www.alamia.com

1 EU200i $875

2 + 30amp kit $1960

Includes shipping


----------



## kjdj

I wonder how Honda can warrant 2 generators hooked up through the banana connectorsfeeding a single 30 amp breaker? If one gen. quits or runs out of gas the only protection the other gen has is still the 30amp breaker. If the trailer A/C comes on in this state the gen will burn-up.

At least with the u-ground plugs when a one of gens. quits the other is protected by it's 15 amp breaker. If the trailer A/C comes on you end up with a tripped gen breaker.

The best set-up in my mind is 2-standard 15amp plugs to some # 12 wire into a small outside breaker box with a 30amp GFI breaker feeding an RV outlet..
If some thing comes unpluged the GFI will trip. Can't get much safer than that.


----------



## j1mfrog

You've just about got me convinced Kevin. The only thing that keeps bugging me is why wouldn't I want the Honda authorized kit. I don't know, your disccussion seems to make the most sense.

I do want to be safe.

Can anyone poke any holes in the setup Kevin recommends?


----------



## Not Yet

The parallel transfer kits that everyone sells is made by Gen Tran out of GA
http://www.gen-tran.com/index.htm

They warranty the box for 24 months. As for the polarity of the banana plugs, that is handled by an internal circuit in the generators. You can not hook the plugs up wrong. The box comes with a 30 amp fuse and the generators are rated continuous 26.6 max 33.4. I think I am willing to pay for the warranty and piece of mind

Jared


----------



## outbackgeorgia

Hey!

Gen-Tran I noticed is in Alpharetta, GA. They are located about 5 miles from my house. I 'll run by there and check out their facility and products, hopefully Monday.
There is an RV show here this weekend, maybe they will be exhibiting.

Outbackgeorgia


----------

