# Heads Up!!! On Vacuum Breaker Check Valves



## 14kbiz

I had a problem with the Vacuum Breaker Valve on the black tank backflush line failing in my 2011 Outback 298RE. Lots of water in the camper.
I emailed B&B Molders, makers of the valve, and they are sending me a new one, as they've done with others on this forum and elsewhere who have had a problem. I then asked if the new part has been modified or improved

Here's what they told me:

1. The part was been through an engineering change.
2. That particular model has been identified at a plant that had possibly installed our product incorrectly.

Don't know if that means my camper model, the 298RE, or something else.

Read into it what you will, poor engineering or installation error.
For what it's worth the reps at B&B were nice to deal with and seem to be aware of the issue and willing to aid in resolving the issue.
If I have issues down the road from water damage and this was a error at the manufacturing plant I hope Keystone is just as easy to work with.

If you're an owner of a 298RE you might to check and/or replace this valve. Or at least have someone check for leaks under the bathroom sink when you backflush the tank.


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## H2oSprayer

I would be interested in hearing if the new one looks any different then the one that failed. Please keep us advised after you receive the replacement.


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## 14kbiz

H2oSprayer said:


> I would be interested in hearing if the new one looks any different then the one that failed. Please keep us advised after you receive the replacement.


Just received the new valve today. It appears to be the same as the old one. I can't really see anything different. I blew air through the new one and it does work, air flows only through the outlet side of the valve. And the plug inside rises and falls as it should according to pressure. The old one allows air to flow through the top and the plug doesn't prevent a backflow.
Still don't think I trust it. A back flow preventer is going on the hose hookup outside the camper this weekend and I'm eliminating this valve altogether.


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## jergeo

I have a back flow preventer on its way for outside at the hose connection, now what do you do with the one under the sink just take it out and connect the two lines together?


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## KTMRacer

was at my dealer today getting some camping stuff in the parts department. Asked to see the vacuum break valves for black tank flush. he showed me the one used by keystone and many other mfg. and a all metal one. Said we have a stock of the metal ones. When someone complains about problems, leaks, break in the plastic one the service dept replaces it with the metal one. When I mentioned the OP's problem, he said, oh ya, we see that to often, and yup, we replace it with the metal one.

Needless to say, I bought a metal one. I'm just finishing making a bigger countertop for the bath vanity and have a bigger sink, so the original top is off, easy to replace now.

Also, the factory valve and replacement valve both have one of the simple "pressure regulator, flow restrictors" built in to the output side. The factory valve is labeled "FOR RV USE ONLY!" While the Cash Acme doesn't have that restriction listed.

BTW the replacement one they sell is made by CASH ACME. they also install a regulator/flow restrictor on the output on the unit, although the unit directly from cash acme does not have a pressure regulator on the output

Here is a link to the valve 
Cash Acme backflow valve


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## KTMRacer

robertized said:


> was at my dealer today getting some camping stuff in the parts department. Asked to see the vacuum break valves for black tank flush. he showed me the one used by keystone and many other mfg. and a all metal one. Said we have a stock of the metal ones. When someone complains about problems, leaks, break in the plastic one the service dept replaces it with the metal one. When I mentioned the OP's problem, he said, oh ya, we see that to often, and yup, we replace it with the metal one.
> 
> Needless to say, I bought a metal one. I'm just finishing making a bigger countertop for the bath vanity and have a bigger sink, so the original top is off, easy to replace now.
> 
> Also, the factory valve and replacement valve both have one of the simple "pressure regulator, flow restrictors" built in to the output side. The factory valve is labeled "FOR RV USE ONLY!" While the Cash Acme doesn't have that restriction listed.
> 
> BTW the replacement one they sell is made by CASH ACME. they also install a regulator/flow restrictor on the output on the unit, although the unit directly from cash acme does not have a pressure regulator on the output
> 
> Here is a link to the valve
> Cash Acme backflow valve


Do you have any information on the check valve they used on the output side of the CASH ACME backflow valve? 
[/quote]

unfortunetly, no. it is typical plastic pressure reducer that has a spring loaded popet like disk that when the pressure exceeds the spring, it pops forward and then limits the dowstream flow and downstream pressure. It just happens to have the proper threads to mate to the cash acme valve.


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## Aeronut

Last weekend was our first camping trip of the season in the 295RE and everything went swimmingly until the last hour as we were packing up to leave the campground. Fired up the black tank flush, everything seemed to be going ok, until the DW started yelling bloody murder from inside. Yup, just like the OP, we flooded the bathroom and part of the bedroom. Mopped up what we could before we had to check out, and fired up a fan to dry up the rest once we got home. Hopefully no permanent damage, but needless to say I'm very interested in solving this problem. Looking forward to hearing what 14kbiz and KTM have to say.


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## KTMRacer

get the cash acme valve. I looked at the factory valve after I replaced it and IMHO it is a defective design. The way it is designed, the top and bottom of the case are solvent or ultrasonically welded together. And the weld is BEFORE the built in pressure reducer and backflow valve, so the weld must be able to withstand the full water pressure and if it fails, it won't stop the water from flowing.

The cash acme valve is all brass with the portion that must take full water pressure screwed together and probably sealed with an o-ring and rated for something like 125psi, about double the allowed domestic water pressure and much higher than you'll likely ever see.


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## 14kbiz

Aeronut said:


> Last weekend was our first camping trip of the season in the 295RE and everything went swimmingly until the last hour as we were packing up to leave the campground. Fired up the black tank flush, everything seemed to be going ok, until the DW started yelling bloody murder from inside. Yup, just like the OP, we flooded the bathroom and part of the bedroom. Mopped up what we could before we had to check out, and fired up a fan to dry up the rest once we got home. Hopefully no permanent damage, but needless to say I'm very interested in solving this problem. Looking forward to hearing what 14kbiz and KTM have to say.


Be sure to contact B&B molders either through their website or by phone, and make them aware of your situation. They're customer service is great, and they will send you a new valve and have you return the faulty one, at there expense, so they can inspect it. I even got a personal phone call, as did someone else on the forum.

I installed the new valve they sent me and added a pressure regulator on the hookup outside. So far, so good. I'm a seasonal camper and use the back flush system often so I do plan to eliminate the valve altogether.
Think I'll just use an connector/elbow in place of the valve under the sink to connect the 2 lines and put a backflow preventer on the hose connection outside the camper.

And no matter what type of setup you go with, do not forget to winterize these lines. I blow air through mine, no more than 20psi.


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## Brooklinite

I had a flood in my 250RS earlier this year due to loose pex fittings at the breaker valve. It was strange because I had used it several times before without incident.

Tightened them up and it's fine now. Needless to say I gave all the fittings that I could find a once-over.


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## berick

14kbiz said:


> I had a problem with the Vacuum Breaker Valve on the black tank backflush line failing in my 2011 Outback 298RE. Lots of water in the camper.
> I emailed B&B Molders, makers of the valve, and they are sending me a new one, as they've done with others on this forum and elsewhere who have had a problem. I then asked if the new part has been modified or improved
> 
> Here's what they told me:
> 
> 1. The part was been through an engineering change.
> 2. That particular model has been identified at a plant that had possibly installed our product incorrectly.
> 
> Don't know if that means my camper model, the 298RE, or something else.
> 
> Read into it what you will, poor engineering or installation error.
> For what it's worth the reps at B&B were nice to deal with and seem to be aware of the issue and willing to aid in resolving the issue.
> If I have issues down the road from water damage and this was a error at the manufacturing plant I hope Keystone is just as easy to work with.
> 
> If you're an owner of a 298RE you might to check and/or replace this valve. Or at least have someone check for leaks under the bathroom sink when you backflush the tank.


I know this is an old thread but I wanted to thank the OP for this post. I also have a 2011 Outback 298RE and the flush for the black tank froze up on me. The valve stopped letting water through and therefore made the black tank flush useless. I'm glad that's all that happened and that I did not have a water leak in my unit. This happened one year after we bought the trailer new from a dealer but I never got around to wanting it fixed until this week. I called the RV dealer to see about buying a new backup preventer valve and they told me it would be $100.00. After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I asked them if the manufacturer had at least upgraded the new valves so they lasted longer than a year and I got the "duuuuh" look and a "We never have problems with these so I don't know". Yet after 5 minutes on google I see it has been a fairly common thing. At any rate, I took your advice and called B&B and they are shipping a new and improved unit to me here in Canada...... free of charge! They just asked if I could send the defective unit back in the box that they are providing with return shipping already paid for! Excellent service and again, I thank you for this post. It saved me a $100.00 and got me a new & improved part straight from the manufacturer.


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