# Diesel



## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

A friend of mine in Washington, DC told me this morning that all the diesel signs at the gas stations this morning were blacked out. Hope that is a temporary shortage and not the new norm. The availability of diesel is even more important than gas as it affects so much of our transportation and industrial infrastructure.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

vdub,

I think we definitely have some 'interesting' time ahead of us. I hope we can all keep cool heads about it!

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

I have not heard anything of the staions being out of Diesel.







I have to run to appointments this afternoon, so I'll check. I am sure WTOP would be all over it.

Some stations around here have blacked out their boards. There are two thoughts regarding this.

One: the price has changed so frequently that it was easier to clear the boards.

Two: with no advertised price, you would drive up to see the price and then they have you there.

Happy Outbacking,

Tim


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Interesting I was reading one guy that was I think in NC and said the Diesel was the only open pumps, the gas stations were backlogged but the Diesel pumps were empty - made for quick fill ups.

In WA we have 5 refineries so we really shouldn't see any issues with Gas or Diesel, though they are investigating why our prices shot up as well even though none of our fuel comes from the south.


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

Someone started a rumor last Friday that the Governor of Maryland was ordering all gas stations closed at 4:00 pm. People lined up like it was the end of the world. One Station upped it's prices to:

$5.89/ gal regular
$6.89/ gal plus
$7.03/ gal supreme

They promptly reduced their prices at 4:01 pm on Friday. That is gouging. The AG of MD is looking into it. They have video from helicopters with time stamps on it.

Makes you wonder, huh?

Happy Outbacking!

Tim


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

Here in San Antonio --

Unleaded is $2.81

Diesel is $2.69

or at least it was that way when i filled up this morning at the Shell off of Babcock Rd....

So no shortage here....


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## gregjoyal (Jan 25, 2005)

Y-Guy said:


> Interesting I was reading one guy that was I think in NC and said the Diesel was the only open pumps, the gas stations were backlogged but the Diesel pumps were empty - made for quick fill ups.
> 
> In WA we have 5 refineries so we really shouldn't see any issues with Gas or Diesel, though they are investigating why our prices shot up as well even though none of our fuel comes from the south.
> [snapback]53665[/snapback]​


Supply and demand.... Gas stations in the south want to buy the gas normally destined for your market, therefore they are willing to pay more. Which in turn means you need to pay more for your gas.

It's simple business really.... If you ran a business and had a product to sell, would you sell it to the person willing to pay $1 for it, or the person willing to pay $1.10?

Unfortunately, when businesses collude (which they do quite frequently through legal means) it drives the prices up even further.

I'm going to stop before I climb up another step on my anti-corporation soapbox.

Anyways, they've starting reporting a small dip in gas prices across Canada - yet we here in Winnipeg haven't seen any of that dip. I'm glad I filled up last week before prices skyrocketed - I should be able to last until the prices finally do fall.


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

gregjoyal I don't doubt the supply/demand issue, but reality is in the NW our gas/oil isn't going to the South, to far to truck or transport.

I often get annoyed with Bill O'Rielly, but his segment on the massive profits of the oil industry need to be examined in the wake of what's going on. I was the first to doubt that any price games were going on when I lived in California with the whole Enron bit, but low and behold it was. This is one reason I always try to buy my gas/diesel from the non-major oil companies. Places like Costco, Wal-Mart, etc., are the best bet to bring true competition to the fuel market.

Of course today I hear that the State Republicans tried to withhold the .31/gallon gas tax for 2 months to level things out and help the people and businesses - of course our Gubernor quickly shot that down.


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## dougdogs (Jul 31, 2004)

I hope this is a good sign, on tonights' commute home I passed two stations that serve Diesel. Both stations prices were 15 cents LOWER than this morning!!!









Gas prices have also dropped about the same today in my area of NJ


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## gregjoyal (Jan 25, 2005)

That's true... eventually the distance to ship things will outweigh how much more they are willing to pay.

I think that someone needs to look at many of the major players and why they are making so much money. Up here, oil companies are making record profits. Unfortunately, governments are also making record profits.... Alberta just recently announced an increase of 1.2 billion dollars in profits.... In a province of just under 3.25 million people, thats $370 per person in ADDITIONAL tax benefits.

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpos...a7-1780d720f9ad

Is it really in governments best interest to ask the question why gas costs so much? (and yes, I know that most governments charge a per litre or per gallon tax and not a % based tax)

Anyways, I applaud you for doing what you can to foster competition in an attempt to reduce prices.









It's not easy, and everyone needs to do their part. Personally, my wife and I, we try to walk or ride our bikes as many places as possible. We have both been riding to work this summer (it's only about 5-6 miles one way for both of us) and I must say, it is enjoyable when the weather is nice. It's starting to get cold in the mornings though....


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Unfortunately, I think the simple reality is that we in North America have been spoiled with - dare I say it - LOW oil prices for too long. Compared to what people are used to paying (and have been for a long time) in Europe and elsewhere, our prices even now are a huge bargin.

So what is the answer?

Yes, we have huge reserves in Alaska that have been tied up for too long. But, even if we open all that up to drilling today, we are ten years away from seeing the first drop of it. And when we do, we will be lucky if it is another ten years before we see the last drop.

The various 'bio' fuels that have been bantied about create more pollution in their manufacture than they save at your exhaust pipe.

To me, there is only one answer... Hydrogen. And, yes, I know, that is only a long term solution at best.

I guess in the near term, the only relief we are likely to find, is to invest in the oil companies that are reaping these obscene profits. It isn't going to lower prices at the pump, but at least our portfolios will be happy!

OK, now I'll get off MY soapbox









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## gregjoyal (Jan 25, 2005)

PDX_Doug said:


> The various 'bio' fuels that have been bantied about create more pollution in their manufacture than they save at your exhaust pipe.


I thought bio diesel was quite the alternative.... Renewable, locally produced, no nasty by-products.

http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/biodiesel_basics/

But I'll admit, I am pretty naive beyond what I've read on the internet and the local newspaper. Does anyone have any experience with it?? Have any of you diesel folks ever tried it??


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Actually there was a thread not to far back on bio-diesel. I had mentioned that a cousin of DW's was making his own. Someone had asked what kind of engine he was running it in and I simply failed to find out and answer the question. So here is the scoop....

He's running B100 in an '83 Mercedes. The team he is on is also testing B100 in a '94 and '99 Cummins and in an VW (don't know the year). The bio-diesel he's making for his own use in the Mercedes is collected from two local fast food joints. Apparently, that is enough to keep him going. There is a little more to it than this, but, basically, he mixes the oil in a 55 gallon drum with about 20% methanol, stirs it for about an hour, then lets it settle out overnight. Next day, he drains it to another container and lets it settle till clear. At that point, it is ready to use. Cost is about a $1 per gallon -- that's reasonable enough.









I don't think they have tested it in any common rail diesels and I'm not about to volunteer my brand new diesel to the cause, but it looks like a very interesting and simple process. They have torn down both their Cummins' engines several times looking for any evidence of problems and have not found any. The stuff seems to be working pretty well.

There is lots of info on web about making it yourself.


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

PDX_Doug said:


> <snip>
> To me, there is only one answer... Hydrogen. And, yes, I know, that is only a long term solution at best.
> <snip>
> Happy Trails,
> ...


Unfortunately, hydrogen isn't an energy source, any more than a battery is. It is just another energy storage medium. At present, it is manufactured from natural gas - fossil fuel - using massive quantities of electricity - fossils, nukes, windmills, coal). It has to be stored at 5000 to 10000 PSI to get even an average day's supply into a vehicle's tank (refuel EVERY DAY!).
Gasoline and diesel and the internal combustion engine will be with us for a loooong time.

Slug sunny


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

[quote name='PDX_Doug' date='Sep 8 2005, 04:53 PM']

Yes, we have huge reserves in Alaska that have been tied up for too long. But, even if we open all that up to drilling today, we are ten years away from seeing the first drop of it. And when we do, we will be lucky if it is another ten years before we see the last drop.

Doug,

If you are referring to the petroleum in the Alaska Wildlife Reserve that has been contested for many years, that amount is very small compared to any significant oil finds such as the North Slope for which the Alaska pipeline was built to Prudhoe Bay. True, according to the geologists there is oil there, but it is likely to be played out in short order once production is underway. At least that is my understanding.

Bill


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

PDX_Doug said:


> I guess in the near term, the only relief we are likely to find, is to invest in the oil companies that are reaping these obscene profits. It isn't going to lower prices at the pump, but at least our portfolios will be happy!


"In the long run, we'll all be dead"; John Maynard Keynes









Prices are now coming down. Maryland and DC were two of the three highes states in the US this week. I paid $2.95/gallon this afternoon and was tickled. Now that is sad.









I am sure there will be some fluctuation, but prices are going to stabilize. We reached equilibrium somewhere around $3.30/ gallon. There has now been a shift to the left(if we were to graph this of course) as supply has again increased slightly and prices have been reduced.

Sorry to keep speaking "Economese", but that is my second language!
















Happy Outbacking!

Tim


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

cookie9933 said:


> PDX_Doug said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, we have huge reserves in Alaska that have been tied up for too long. But, even if we open all that up to drilling today, we are ten years away from seeing the first drop of it. And when we do, we will be lucky if it is another ten years before we see the last drop.
> ...


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Has anyone else read the story about Homogeneous Charge Compression Ignition? I'll post part of the story and you can find the complete Link Here

SONOMA, Calif.--In the race to build a new generation of energy-efficient cars, the spark plug may become one of the first casualties.

Toyota, General Motors and virtually every other major automobile manufacturer are tinkering with a technology called Homogeneous Charge Compression Ignition (HCCI), which could boost fuel economy in cars by about 20 percent and generate fewer polluting hydrocarbons. Research projects are also under way at national labs and universities.

In HCCI, the combustion process occurs by moderating the pressure and temperature inside the cylinder. Igniting the fuel with a spark is not required, said John Pinson, group manager of diesel engine research at the General Motors Research and Development Center, said during a one-day symposium sponsored by Infineon Technologies. A similar, but slightly different and slightly less effective, combustion process takes place in diesel engines.

"It is more efficient and less far-fetched than it sounds," Pinson said of HCCI. "In this decade you are going to see incremental introduction of it."

Other near-term ideas include use of gasoline-electric hybrid engines and engines fueled by hydrogen, diesel and/or ethanol. All these options have their critics.

The appeal of these technologies, of course, derives from the climbing price of oil and concerns about global warming.

----
The link above takes you to the 2 pages of this story.


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