# Considering A 23rs



## fdbgt (Oct 27, 2005)

I am new here...first post. I have searched but was not able to find a post that discussed towing a 23rs with a V-8 Explorer.

We are new to camping and considering the purchase of a 23RS. We currently have a '96 Ford Explorer with the 5.0L V-8 and a receiver hitch. The owner's manual says that it will pull 6700 lbs. and the dealers that I have talked with all say "no problem", except that none of the sales people we have talked with camp so I take their "no problem" with a big grain of salt.

What are you're thoughts? We live in the southeast and no winter-time "snow" camping is in the picture.

Thanks


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Please don't do it. It's really not safe. Read this:

We Crashed


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## Grunt0311 (Aug 23, 2005)

First of all, welcome to the site action .

Now on to the bad news







. I would definately NOT recommend towing a travel trailer with that Explorer. The wheel base is WAY to short, and their isn't a WD hitch out there that can make up for it. Your Explorer is already prone to rollovers, and adding a trailer on is going to make it worse. My mom, "Nonny", has a 06 23RS, and an 2005 Durango with the 5.7 Hemi. While it has plenty of power for towing, the trailer has a habit of taking control of the Durango, even with an "Equilizer" WD hitch. She is already talking about trading in the Durango for a better tow vehicle.
There are a couple other things to consider:
1. DO NOT listen to the salesman when he says "no problem". 9 times out of 10, that translates into "I have no technical knowledge on what you just asked, but want to make this sale"! Sorry, no offense to any salesman out there, but it is the truth.
2. 6700 lbs is not just the weight of the trailer, it is the weight of everything else you put in it, in the truck, and the weight of the trailer. Also, just because a vehicle will move 6700lbs, doesn't mean you want to be in it for 2 hours towing that much.

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, and I hope you do buy an Outback, but in my experience/opinion that is too much trailer for that tow vehicle. I'm sure someone will jump in and say they have been towing more than that with an Explorer for years, but that doesn't mean it is safe for your family, or anyone else on the road!
Just my 2cents worth!








Good luck!


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

fdbgt,

First off...

action action action *WELCOME TO OUTBACKERS!* action action action

It's alway great to see the family growing!









Now to your question. The GWR on the 23RS is 6,000#, so based on the owners manual you are technically within the limits. The Outback site lists dry weight as 4,360 pounds, but that is always several hundred pounds low. In any case, if gross weight is within bounds, you are good to go.

You should however, always allow some 'cushion'. The appropriate amount varies depending on who you talk to, but 25% seems to be a pretty common number. That lowers your realistic tow rating to 5,025 pounds. That puts you in the 'iffy' range. You are over weight at gross trailer weight, but probably within range if you are lightly loaded.

One thing to keep in mind is that the Explorers tow rating assumes stock equipment only, driver and a full tank of gas. Anything you add to that (options, passengers, luggage, etc.) must be deducted from the tow rating.

So, weight wise, it will probably come down to your towing environment. If you are in the plains, you are probably OK. If in the mountains or high altitudes it's another story.

Another issue you must address is your Explorer's wheelbase. Short wheelbase vehicles tend to be unstable towing big trailers. Since you are not looking at one of the bigger Outbacks you may be OK, but I would be very leary myself.

Anyway, good luck on your search. Ask us lots of questions and you should end up with a great setup!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## wicandthing (Jul 11, 2005)

Welcome!

I tow a 23RS with a GMC Sierra 1500 Z71 w/tow package. It is the crew cab model. I personally would not want to tow it with anything that has a shorter wheelbase. Even with this vehicle, I have experienced the trailer trying to push the vehicle out of a curve on hilly roads. I'm in the southeast also, so my driving conditions will be very similar to yours.

Wic


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

My biggest concern would be the short wheel base of the Explorer.

Don


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## drose (Jul 26, 2005)

I would agree the wheel base of the explorer is not long enough to handle even the shortest Outback. I am sure someone will post the wheel base chart that proved to me that my Tahoe was to short for my TT.


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## JohnL (Sep 2, 2004)

I have a 21RS and towed it for one season with an Explorer. The Explorer had a 5.0L engine and the factory tow package. I was able to tow the 21RS, but it was not what I would call a pleasant experience. The Explorer was under powered, and at times felt like the trailer was in control of the rig, not the Explorer. I was using the Equal-i-zer hitch which is one of better set ups, and had everything fine tuned. I never had any sway problems, the tow vehicle just seemed light on its feet. You might get away with towing a 21RS like I did, but I definitely wouldn't tow a 23RS. The bottom line is that the Explorer is just too small for that size trailer.

Be safe.....don't do it.


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## bweiler (Sep 20, 2005)

I have an 2005 Durango with the Hemi and a 25RSS. I agree with all the statements above - don't do it. Unfortunately, like many folks,I don't really have the option of changing the TV. After a multiple sway bar adjustments and hitch adjustments, we decided to purchase a Hensley hitch (soon). Since the Outback is in winter storage, we will get it going for 2006 season. Hopefully it will tame this mismatched TV/Camper combo. I'll report back since there are plenty of Durangos out there and I haven't seen a post yet on how much better they tow with the Hensley.


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## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

Yeah, that "we crashed" thread was mine. Good for you for doing your research before buying! If you want a "by the book" reason why the '96 Explorer is too small, the owner's manual restricts the "frontal area" of a trailer to some small amount, much smaller than an outback; basicly, you can tow a heavy but very compact trailer (like a concrete pump or something, I suppose) but not a large box like a travel trailer.

But beyond the "book" reasons, the Explorer is basicly a Ranger pickup with a bigger back-half. It's got a short wheelbase, soft suspension, and a questionable reputation for highway stability even without a trailer. Don't get me wrong, we loved ours while we had it, it's just better suited as a grocery getter than a tow vehicle for anything larger than a garden trailer or maybe a small boat. Count mine as another vote for a new tow vehicle! If you really don't want to trade up, consider a smaller pop-up. I'm sure the explorer could handle one of those.
Kevin P.


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## glennsteers (Apr 25, 2005)

fdbgt,

Welcome to Outbackers.com!

When I bought my 26RS, the dealer NEVER once asked what I would tow it with. That pretty much sums up the attitude of the RV dealer, "Don't ask, don't tell!"

I have to concur with my fellow posters that you would be over your head even with a 21RS. That doesn't mean that you can't RV with a TT, you probably can't tow an Outback.

Now without sounding like a traitor, Keystone has a lightweight division that specializes in TTs for SUVs, Minivans, Jeeps and the like called Zeppelin.

Keystone Zeppelin

Recently, one of the Outback designers was recruited by Zeppelin to revamp the Zep line. They even brought over some of the Outback colors like Fawn with some major design revisions. However, the online brochure is NOT the 2006 brochure which I got at an RV show and Keystone has yet to post! Typical of Keystone's website...

My feelings are that you will get close to the quality of an Outback with a significant weight and length reduction.

Happy Shopping!


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## jzero (Mar 24, 2005)

A 96 Explorer...probally has a lot of miles on it. If you've never towed with it in the past, Then the STRESS of towing will probally kill it quickly (in the middle of no where of course). Get your AAA paid up.

Good luck!


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

My 23RS weighs in at 5760 .. and thats before beer .. so don't go by that little sticker that says lighter-then-air or 4000 lbs or something like that

Also -- as for the the Explorer -- its not how much you can tow... but how much you can carry ... by the time you add the people, fuel, equipment, supplies, and tongue weight of the trialer you are easily over...

and then there is the wheelbase -- its just plan toooooo short ... I have a Silverado Crew Cab and there has been a couple of times in the mountains that I felt the trialer wanting to drive me!! I can imagine what it would be like in a Explorer...

anyway though -- the 23RS is a great trailer -- I heard that only the very best looking Outbackers actually get the 23Rs...


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## glennsteers (Apr 25, 2005)

Ghosty said:


> anyway though -- the 23RS is a great trailer -- I heard that only the very best looking Outbackers actually get the 23Rs...Â
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Man, those RV dealers will say ANYTHING to make a sale, won't they?


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## rnameless (Jun 30, 2005)

welcome to outbackers!!

You are getting plenty of info to help in your decision which is why I joined this group. To chime in, the explorer just ain't gonna get it done safely. Why risk it? My wife was uncomfortable with me pulling our old rig that only weighed 3300 lbs with a F150 supercrew 5.4l tow pkg. We found a good deal on a used excursion and upgraded the TV to feel safer. Of course when we got the land yacht it was only a matter of time before we upgraded the trailer. Good luck!


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## aantolik (Apr 8, 2005)

I've been towing a 23RS for two seasons now in the hills & mountains of western PA with a Chevy Trailblazer. Originally had a Husky WD hitch with onefriction sway control & had some sway issues. Switched to an Equalizer & no problems so far. Have towed it about 2200 miles so far. It's a little slower going up some of these mountains & I plan on getting a Titan or Silverado before next season as we want to go west & south where there are some larger hills to worry about. I would say you can do it, but with the age of the vehicle, I'd be hesitant to go too far with it.


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## TheMillers (Aug 8, 2005)

I've got a 4Runner which is similar to the Explorer. It has a little higher towing capacity. I'm not sure how the wheelbase compares but I think they are close. When we were looking, a dealer actually tried to sell us a 30 foot Jayco. He looked up the specs in his books and said I wouldn't have any problems








.

Thanks to the internet RV forums (I didn't even know the Outbacks existed at that time), I knew he was full of it and left!

Now I'm the happy owner of a 21rs. We wanted bigger, but didn't want to get another TV. We are very happy with it and this site







.

I'm glad I didn't go any bigger.


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## Swanie (Oct 25, 2004)

I empathize. We started out wanting a 23rs but decided to err on the side of caution since we have a 2004 Durango (no hemi) and not much wheel base. We got a 21rs instead. Just even 3 feet more was just too much to chance it. And though we've been happy with the towing (all flat), have not been happy with the lack of speed sometimes on the freeway. We won't be changing TV any time soon so for now, as long as we stay away from stressful towing situations (like mountains, overloading, etc.) we'll probably be ok. We also use an equalizing hitch and sometimes it feels that it is just too much trailer.


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## nonny (Aug 14, 2005)

As my son, Grunt0311, indicated, I'm planning to get a larger TV ASAP and I tow with the 05 Durango with 5.7 Hemi. I was towing it 70ish miles to the dealership for winterizing on a windy day and was terrified. That trailer definitely was the boss and that's not how it should be! On the other hand, I was towing my pop-up in possibly tornado, if not tornado-like winds and was able to control the camper and get off on the side of the highway just in time to have the top of the pop-up ripped from the hinges and opened. Pop-up was totaled, TV and all of its contents, including my granddaughter and me, were safe and sound (well, how sound I am may be debatable). Err on the side of caution and be safe!


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