# Ford Ecoboost Owners: Computer Tuner/programmer



## Todd&Regan

I'm sure most of you would agree that there is no such thing as too much power when it comes to towing a heavy camper. I will be purchasing a computer tuner/programmer for my 2012 Ford F-150 Ecoboost sometime before the camping season begins this spring. I've been researching Bully Dog and Edge programmers. The reviews for the Bully Dog programmers are mixed, with one Ecoboost owner stating the programmer didn't even work with his truck, and that Bully Dog customer service was not helpful and did not resolve the issue. The reviews for Edge programmers are mostly positive, and it looks like the Edge programmers will provide more power increases compared to Bully Dog. I'm curious how many Outbackers Ecoboost owners use a computer tuner/programmer, what brand you use, and whether you like it or not.


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## WYOCAMPER

For what it's worth, I am not an EcoBoost owner, but I do know several folks who own them and tow with them regularly. The ones that have added tuners like the SCT tuner. I have an F350 with the V10 and have an SCT-X3 tuner on my truck. It has changed the way the truck drives, feels and tows. Most of us have purchased our tuners thru 5-Star Tuning. They come highly recommended on the fordtrucks.com community as well. Check out their link below. They seem to have a good amount of real world experience with the EcoBoost. I dealt with Mike @ 5-Star and I can say that he is a great guy with a great product and outstanding customer service. Call him and he will take the time to find out what your specific needs are based on the way you use your truck. Then he can load your new tuner with up to 3 tunes designed just for your truck and your driving/towing needs.

http://www.5startuning.com/f150-5.0l-ecoboost/index.html

Sorry if this sounds like a commercial. I am in no way affiliated with 5-Star Tuning (other than being a very satisfied customer).


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## hoodscoop

I too want to install a programmer, but my dealership service rep warned me that it might void my warranty. If you want to believe it, my owner's manual states that Ford Motor Co can tell if a programmer has ever been installed even if you remove it before taking it into the dealership for service.


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## Todd&Regan

hoodscoop said:


> I too want to install a programmer, but my dealership service rep warned me that it might void my warranty. If you want to believe it, my owner's manual states that Ford Motor Co can tell if a programmer has ever been installed even if you remove it before taking it into the dealership for service.


A dealer would say that. There is a federal law that protects consumers of after market vehicle parts. Basically the law states that after market car parts/accessories cannot void a vehicle manufactures warranty unless they can prove that the aftermarket part caused the problem/damage.
Whenever you take your vehicle to a dealer for repairs/service, they flash the PCM with updates. When they do that, they can tell if there has been any changes to the PCM, such as a tuner/programmer. All tuners/progammers require a stock backup file to be created during installation. You have to program your PCM back to stock and remove the tuner/programmer before taking your vehicle to a dealer. Your PCM could be damaged if you have a custom program installed in your PCM and the dealer flashes the PCM.


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## raynardo

"Do aftermarket parts void my factory warranty?". The answer to this is no! In fact it is illegal for a manufacturer to do so unless they can prove that the added part specifically caused or contributed to the failure. Where is this stated?

Reference: MAGNUSON MOSS WARRANTY ACT - 15 U.S.C. 2302 (C)

This federal law regulates warranties for the protection of consumers. The essence of the law concerning aftermarket auto parts is that a vehicle manufacturer may not condition a written or implied warranty on the consumers using parts or services which are identified by brand, trade, or corporate name (such as the vehicle maker's brand) unless the parts or service are provided free of charge. The law means that the use of an aftermarket part alone is not cause for denying the warranty. However, the law's protection does not extend to aftermarket parts in situations where such parts actually caused the damage being claimed under the warranty. Further, consumers are advised to be aware of any specific terms or conditions stated in the warranty which may result in its being voided. The law states in relevant part:

8220: No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name...8221; (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)).


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## willingtonpaul

Magnuson Moss does protect you. however, you might have a legal fight on your hands getting them to pay.

if you put on a tuner, and have a drivetrain / powertrain issue, your issue could be denied for warranty payment. maybe without merit, but denied. now you have to take them to court and get them to pay. they are gonna have experts (their engineers) and plenty of data (failures of other similar vehicles with aftermarket additions similar to yours) to bring to court to make the case as to why your aftermarket addition caused the failure and subsequent warranty denial. what are you gonna have ? your word ? your buddies word ? you are gonna have to hire your own set of experts, and it ain't gonna be from internet forums. that's gonna be time consuming and expensive. period.

FWIW, my advice is to keep it stock until the warranty runs out. or, if you want more power, so be it. tune it up. but be prepared to write the check if something breaks and they deny it. you gotta have your eyes wide open going in. it ain't as simple as clicking your heels saying "magnuson moss" three times to the service manager or ford regional rep to get them to reverse their warranty denial decision.


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## CamperAndy

willingtonpaul said:


> FWIW, my advice is to keep it stock until the warranty runs out. or, if you want more power, so be it. tune it up. but be prepared to write the check if something breaks and they deny it. you gotta have your eyes wide open going in. it ain't as simple as clicking your heels saying "magnuson moss" three times to the service manager or ford regional rep to get them to reverse their warranty denial decision.


"Clicking your heels saying "magnuson moss" three times"

Best post in months.


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## hoodscoop

willingtonpaul said:


> Magnuson Moss does protect you. however, you might have a legal fight on your hands getting them to pay.
> 
> if you put on a tuner, and have a drivetrain / powertrain issue, your issue could be denied for warranty payment. maybe without merit, but denied. now you have to take them to court and get them to pay. they are gonna have experts (their engineers) and plenty of data (failures of other similar vehicles with aftermarket additions similar to yours) to bring to court to make the case as to why your aftermarket addition caused the failure and subsequent warranty denial. what are you gonna have ? your word ? your buddies word ? you are gonna have to hire your own set of experts, and it ain't gonna be from internet forums. that's gonna be time consuming and expensive. period.
> 
> FWIW, my advice is to keep it stock until the warranty runs out. or, if you want more power, so be it. tune it up. but be prepared to write the check if something breaks and they deny it. you gotta have your eyes wide open going in. it ain't as simple as clicking your heels saying "magnuson moss" three times to the service manager or ford regional rep to get them to reverse their warranty denial decision.


I use to subscribe to two diesel magazines. They would always end an article about horsepower modifications with, "this may void your warranty". They also state two reasons why. First, many tuners override the emmisions to create the additional horsepower/torque. This in itself is illegal. The aftermarket manufacturers often get around this by saying it is for "off road" use only. Secondly, the increase of 100 horsepower and/or torque may push the transmission or other drivetrain parts beyond their limits and cause damage, usually what the vehicle manufacturer will state.


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## Todd&Regan

This is a good discussion, but this forum has veered off the topic of my original post. I think most who install tuners on vehicles still under warranty are aware of the risks. Thats why it is important to do your research prior to purchasing a tuner. Still willing to hear from tuner users on their experience with their tuner. I'll now expand it to all vehicle makes and models.


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## CamperAndy

double d said:


> I'll now expand it to all vehicle makes and models.


No real experience with tuners on a gas engine as I have always went with mechanical upgrades on them. On Diesel engines tuners are a simple way to add lots of horsepower.

The Ecoboost may be able to take advantage of a tuner due to the fuel mapping for the turbos but I could not tell you if they would be worth the money. Now throw a Cummins in there and I have lots of suggestions.


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## Insomniak

CamperAndy said:


> I'll now expand it to all vehicle makes and models.


No real experience with tuners on a gas engine as I have always went with mechanical upgrades on them. On Diesel engines tuners are a simple way to add lots of horsepower.

The Ecoboost may be able to take advantage of a tuner due to the fuel mapping for the turbos but I could not tell you if they would be worth the money. Now throw a Cummins in there and I have lots of suggestions.
[/quote]
Ok Andy, I'll take you up on that offer! My truck has about 9,000 miles on it now and the fuel economy still sucks. I drive like a little old man on the freeway, going 60mph (not towing) and I can barely squeeze out 15.5mpg. My daily work commute is 48 miles round-trip, and most of that is on the freeway, with about 10 miles on city streets. Usually lots of traffic in the morning, none at night. Is it unrealistic to expect more? Is the engine still not fully broken in? The best mileage so far was when I drove it back from Colorado, 1,200 miles and 17.9mpg. Still, it's better than my old Tundra, where I was lucky to get 16.5mpg on the highway and 10.5mpg in the city. I get about 12-13mpg with the Ram in the city.

My other situation is when I'm towing. This may sound like heresy, but I feel like my Tundra had as much, or more pulling power than the Ram. Sure, I can spin the tires on the Ram when connected to the trailer, but there have been several times that I've had to FLOOR the accelerator to get going from a dead stop on a hill. I don't remember EVER having to floor the Tundra in the same situation. To be fair, the old truck had a 4.3:1 rear end and nearly 50 more horsepower, but only half the torque as the Ram. The new truck gives a much better towing experience though, is more stable, rides better and gives me about 12mpg towing where the Tundra got 8-9mpg towing.

So, is there anything I can do, or should I just suck it up?


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## willingtonpaul

double d said:


> This is a good discussion, but this forum has veered off the topic of my original post. I think most who install tuners on vehicles still under warranty are aware of the risks. Thats why it is important to do your research prior to purchasing a tuner. Still willing to hear from tuner users on their experience with their tuner. I'll now expand it to all vehicle makes and models.


from what i have read online, pertaining to the ford DIESEL engines, SCT and Edge are reviewed far more favorably than the bully dog. but again, this is diesel not gas and i have no direct experience either way. i see alot more posts on the edge and SCT, though.

another observation that comes to mind is the recent launch of the ecoboost. i imagine that there are still kinks being worked out with the programming, and maybe it makes sense to give it a little more time before you jump in. the pioneers take all the arrows, as they say, and maybe not being part of the beta test group could be a good thing. just a thought.

i am sure you are searching the ecoboost focused forum boards on the ford sites, so if you have the time and / or desire to post back with anything you find on them, it would be good reading for enlightenment on my end.


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## Todd&Regan

I'm now having second thoughts about buying a tuner for my ecoboost. As one person put it on f150forum.com, the stock ecoboost has more torque then diesel engines had 10+ years ago. I also found the following on f150forum.com. It is part of Ford's service procedure to dealers for powertrain warranty claims for the 3.5L. ecoboost. This section pertains to suspected PCM tuning only.

Review Service Procedure
SERVICE PROCEDURE

Unauthorized calibration modifications may or may not be detectable using standard tools (Integrated Diagnostic System (IDS), Portable Diagnostic Software (PDS), NGS+ VCM). Changes can be made to the calibration and flashed to the PCM through the OBD port. Physical modifications to the hardware may or may not be present. If aftermarket power/torque-increasing modifications are suspected, care should be taken to record and store the following items: Permanent Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs), Pending DTCs, Freeze Frame Data, Mode 6 and Mode 9 data. The data should be printed and attached to the repair order for later reference. 
The DTCs, freeze frame data, Mode 6 and 9 data can be obtained by using the IDS, PDS or NGS+VCM under tool box selection. The Powertrain tab will provide the OBD Test Modes tab and Mode 6 and 9 data selection after the vehicle has been identified.

Attempting to increase the engine output via recalibrating the PCM may result in poor drivability, DTCs, or component failures. A partial list of calibration induced component failures is given below: 
Piston damage. 
Spark over-advanced (knock-induced damage). 
Insufficient enrichment. 
Excessive Cylinder Pressure:
Turbocharger damage. 
Over-Speed:
Catalyst damage. 
Over-Temperature/Melting:
Transmission, PTU, Torque converter damage.

*I think I'll stay stock.*


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## willingtonpaul

double d said:


> As one person put it on f150forum.com, the stock ecoboost has more torque then diesel engines had 10+ years ago.


i read things similar to this back when the engine first came out. it is pretty amazing what they have done with it. longevity only remains to be seen, but the stock power is pretty wild. i have a friend with one that pulls a 30' heartland TT. it is an ultra lite unit, IIRC it weighs in loaded about 7000lbs, but still it is a full height TT and 30' long. i helped him re-configure his dual cam when he bought it (picked it up out of re-posession) and the truck tows it like nothing. really does feel like a diesel in alot of ways (and sounds a little like it, too !).


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## willingtonpaul

Insomniak said:


> I'll now expand it to all vehicle makes and models.


No real experience with tuners on a gas engine as I have always went with mechanical upgrades on them. On Diesel engines tuners are a simple way to add lots of horsepower.

The Ecoboost may be able to take advantage of a tuner due to the fuel mapping for the turbos but I could not tell you if they would be worth the money. Now throw a Cummins in there and I have lots of suggestions.
[/quote]
Ok Andy, I'll take you up on that offer! My truck has about 9,000 miles on it now and the fuel economy still sucks. I drive like a little old man on the freeway, going 60mph (not towing) and I can barely squeeze out 15.5mpg. My daily work commute is 48 miles round-trip, and most of that is on the freeway, with about 10 miles on city streets. Usually lots of traffic in the morning, none at night. Is it unrealistic to expect more? Is the engine still not fully broken in? The best mileage so far was when I drove it back from Colorado, 1,200 miles and 17.9mpg. Still, it's better than my old Tundra, where I was lucky to get 16.5mpg on the highway and 10.5mpg in the city. I get about 12-13mpg with the Ram in the city.

My other situation is when I'm towing. This may sound like heresy, but I feel like my Tundra had as much, or more pulling power than the Ram. Sure, I can spin the tires on the Ram when connected to the trailer, but there have been several times that I've had to FLOOR the accelerator to get going from a dead stop on a hill. I don't remember EVER having to floor the Tundra in the same situation. To be fair, the old truck had a 4.3:1 rear end and nearly 50 more horsepower, but only half the torque as the Ram. The new truck gives a much better towing experience though, is more stable, rides better and gives me about 12mpg towing where the Tundra got 8-9mpg towing.

So, is there anything I can do, or should I just suck it up?
[/quote]

your mileage seems about right overall, i think. with my truck, in similar mixed driving, i am getting about 16.5mpg, and i have 23.5k on the clock now. towing is about 11, sometimes better, sometimes worse, based on wind. i have heard with the ford 6.7L, that at 25-30K, mileage goes up about 10% and stays there. we will see if i get that. have not seen it yet.

i don't get the lag on takeoff like you, however, but maybe that is a turbo lag issue you are having from a dead stop. i have little experience outside of my dad's 2004.5 RAM 2500, and his turbo is different, and his truck is pre-emissions to boot. when towing, you are in tow-haul and you still have to mash it ? if i mash it, i get driveline shudder (common with long wheelbase crew cab fords) and axle wrap that i can feel. if i did it all the time, i would also eat tires faster than i already am. i think your from a dead stop issues are with getting used to the turbo more than anything. but again, i am not a cummins expert by any stretch. i have towed with my fathers rig though about a dozen times (with his 5'er, a 29' alpenlite weighing in at 12,500 lbs). his truck takes off just fine with that rig; plenty of power.


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## CamperAndy

Insomniak said:


> I'll now expand it to all vehicle makes and models.


No real experience with tuners on a gas engine as I have always went with mechanical upgrades on them. On Diesel engines tuners are a simple way to add lots of horsepower.

The Ecoboost may be able to take advantage of a tuner due to the fuel mapping for the turbos but I could not tell you if they would be worth the money. Now throw a Cummins in there and I have lots of suggestions.
[/quote]
Ok Andy, I'll take you up on that offer! My truck has about 9,000 miles on it now and the fuel economy still sucks. I drive like a little old man on the freeway, going 60mph (not towing) and I can barely squeeze out 15.5mpg. My daily work commute is 48 miles round-trip, and most of that is on the freeway, with about 10 miles on city streets. Usually lots of traffic in the morning, none at night. Is it unrealistic to expect more? Is the engine still not fully broken in? The best mileage so far was when I drove it back from Colorado, 1,200 miles and 17.9mpg. Still, it's better than my old Tundra, where I was lucky to get 16.5mpg on the highway and 10.5mpg in the city. I get about 12-13mpg with the Ram in the city.

My other situation is when I'm towing. This may sound like heresy, but I feel like my Tundra had as much, or more pulling power than the Ram. Sure, I can spin the tires on the Ram when connected to the trailer, but there have been several times that I've had to FLOOR the accelerator to get going from a dead stop on a hill. I don't remember EVER having to floor the Tundra in the same situation. To be fair, the old truck had a 4.3:1 rear end and nearly 50 more horsepower, but only half the torque as the Ram. The new truck gives a much better towing experience though, is more stable, rides better and gives me about 12mpg towing where the Tundra got 8-9mpg towing.

So, is there anything I can do, or should I just suck it up?
[/quote]

Biggest problem is you living in CA and having to smog the truck. All the pre emission engines, meaning 5.9 have many things that can be done and not raise any red flags with the smog guys when they look under the hood. For you it is limited so try the following.

Install a new intake horn so that you can plumb in water/meth injection. I install a 25 gallon tank when towing and it does help with both EGT and fuel economy, I use straight water when towing. The water flow is set to about .75 to 1 gallon of Diesel so I need to fill the water tank with every tank of fuel. I filter the water but do not sweat where I get it, some people worry about it not being distilled but it only needs to be potable. On the road Flying J stations often have a dump station and fueling station so you can get both water and fuel at the same time. When not towing I use a 5 gallon tank filled with -20 cheap windshield washer fluid. The Meth really makes it fun to drive.

The Edge tuner for your truck is also very good and will help with that seat of the pants feeling from a dead stop. Also since you can monitor boost and other engine functions better then what you can do with the stock gauges it can also help you understand when your engine is working harder then it should. For me when cruising I know that if I keep my boost at or just below 10 PSI I am going to have my best mpg when towing. You can even tell if you are betting into a head wind by watching the boost.

There are other mods but they revolve around deletes and you do not really want to do those if you worry about warranty or the state smog guys.


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## Insomniak

CamperAndy said:


> I'll now expand it to all vehicle makes and models.


No real experience with tuners on a gas engine as I have always went with mechanical upgrades on them. On Diesel engines tuners are a simple way to add lots of horsepower.

The Ecoboost may be able to take advantage of a tuner due to the fuel mapping for the turbos but I could not tell you if they would be worth the money. Now throw a Cummins in there and I have lots of suggestions.
[/quote]
Ok Andy, I'll take you up on that offer! My truck has about 9,000 miles on it now and the fuel economy still sucks. I drive like a little old man on the freeway, going 60mph (not towing) and I can barely squeeze out 15.5mpg. My daily work commute is 48 miles round-trip, and most of that is on the freeway, with about 10 miles on city streets. Usually lots of traffic in the morning, none at night. Is it unrealistic to expect more? Is the engine still not fully broken in? The best mileage so far was when I drove it back from Colorado, 1,200 miles and 17.9mpg. Still, it's better than my old Tundra, where I was lucky to get 16.5mpg on the highway and 10.5mpg in the city. I get about 12-13mpg with the Ram in the city.

My other situation is when I'm towing. This may sound like heresy, but I feel like my Tundra had as much, or more pulling power than the Ram. Sure, I can spin the tires on the Ram when connected to the trailer, but there have been several times that I've had to FLOOR the accelerator to get going from a dead stop on a hill. I don't remember EVER having to floor the Tundra in the same situation. To be fair, the old truck had a 4.3:1 rear end and nearly 50 more horsepower, but only half the torque as the Ram. The new truck gives a much better towing experience though, is more stable, rides better and gives me about 12mpg towing where the Tundra got 8-9mpg towing.

So, is there anything I can do, or should I just suck it up?
[/quote]

Biggest problem is you living in CA and having to smog the truck. All the pre emission engines, meaning 5.9 have many things that can be done and not raise any red flags with the smog guys when they look under the hood. For you it is limited so try the following.

Install a new intake horn so that you can plumb in water/meth injection. I install a 25 gallon tank when towing and it does help with both EGT and fuel economy, I use straight water when towing. The water flow is set to about .75 to 1 gallon of Diesel so I need to fill the water tank with every tank of fuel. I filter the water but do not sweat where I get it, some people worry about it not being distilled but it only needs to be potable. On the road Flying J stations often have a dump station and fueling station so you can get both water and fuel at the same time. When not towing I use a 5 gallon tank filled with -20 cheap windshield washer fluid. The Meth really makes it fun to drive.

The Edge tuner for your truck is also very good and will help with that seat of the pants feeling from a dead stop. Also since you can monitor boost and other engine functions better then what you can do with the stock gauges it can also help you understand when your engine is working harder then it should. For me when cruising I know that if I keep my boost at or just below 10 PSI I am going to have my best mpg when towing. You can even tell if you are betting into a head wind by watching the boost.

There are other mods but they revolve around deletes and you do not really want to do those if you worry about warranty or the state smog guys.
[/quote]
Thanks Andy! What do you think of cold air intake mods? I almost jumped on that bandwagon, but the more I read, the more skeptical I became. Seems like the HP and mileage gains are a little exaggerated and a lot of people have had sensor failures with oil impregnated filters like K & N.


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## CamperAndy

Insomniak said:


> Thanks Andy! What do you think of cold air intake mods? I almost jumped on that bandwagon, but the more I read, the more skeptical I became. Seems like the HP and mileage gains are a little exaggerated and a lot of people have had sensor failures with oil impregnated filters like K & N.


I have one ( S&B ) but it is a little over rated. There are some good ones out there but the stock filter is more then good enough and there is minimal gain from most of the aftermarket filters. The intake horn is also not a great improvement but it does allow a more professional installation of the water injection system, rather than drilling and tapping your own holes.


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## Insomniak

willingtonpaul said:


> I'll now expand it to all vehicle makes and models.


No real experience with tuners on a gas engine as I have always went with mechanical upgrades on them. On Diesel engines tuners are a simple way to add lots of horsepower.

The Ecoboost may be able to take advantage of a tuner due to the fuel mapping for the turbos but I could not tell you if they would be worth the money. Now throw a Cummins in there and I have lots of suggestions.
[/quote]
Ok Andy, I'll take you up on that offer! My truck has about 9,000 miles on it now and the fuel economy still sucks. I drive like a little old man on the freeway, going 60mph (not towing) and I can barely squeeze out 15.5mpg. My daily work commute is 48 miles round-trip, and most of that is on the freeway, with about 10 miles on city streets. Usually lots of traffic in the morning, none at night. Is it unrealistic to expect more? Is the engine still not fully broken in? The best mileage so far was when I drove it back from Colorado, 1,200 miles and 17.9mpg. Still, it's better than my old Tundra, where I was lucky to get 16.5mpg on the highway and 10.5mpg in the city. I get about 12-13mpg with the Ram in the city.

My other situation is when I'm towing. This may sound like heresy, but I feel like my Tundra had as much, or more pulling power than the Ram. Sure, I can spin the tires on the Ram when connected to the trailer, but there have been several times that I've had to FLOOR the accelerator to get going from a dead stop on a hill. I don't remember EVER having to floor the Tundra in the same situation. To be fair, the old truck had a 4.3:1 rear end and nearly 50 more horsepower, but only half the torque as the Ram. The new truck gives a much better towing experience though, is more stable, rides better and gives me about 12mpg towing where the Tundra got 8-9mpg towing.

So, is there anything I can do, or should I just suck it up?
[/quote]

your mileage seems about right overall, i think. with my truck, in similar mixed driving, i am getting about 16.5mpg, and i have 23.5k on the clock now. towing is about 11, sometimes better, sometimes worse, based on wind. i have heard with the ford 6.7L, that at 25-30K, mileage goes up about 10% and stays there. we will see if i get that. have not seen it yet.

i don't get the lag on takeoff like you, however, but maybe that is a turbo lag issue you are having from a dead stop. i have little experience outside of my dad's 2004.5 RAM 2500, and his turbo is different, and his truck is pre-emissions to boot. when towing, you are in tow-haul and you still have to mash it ? if i mash it, i get driveline shudder (common with long wheelbase crew cab fords) and axle wrap that i can feel. if i did it all the time, i would also eat tires faster than i already am. i think your from a dead stop issues are with getting used to the turbo more than anything. but again, i am not a cummins expert by any stretch. i have towed with my fathers rig though about a dozen times (with his 5'er, a 29' alpenlite weighing in at 12,500 lbs). his truck takes off just fine with that rig; plenty of power.
[/quote]
Yep, always in tow/haul mode. I guess from a dead stop I don't "really" have to stomp on the pedal, but I noticed the lack of power on our last two trips to a new campground (in the mountains at about 3,500ft). There's a turnout on a steep hill that I've pulled over into both times to let traffic pass. When I get moving again, there's always that inevitable car that comes up behind me and I have to hurry up to get going. I noticed that I was pushing down pretty far on the pedal, so I floored it and didn't get a whole lot more response. The hill is probably 6-7%, so that has a lot to do with it I suppose. One of those trips was in 100 degree temps, and I bet that didn't help much either. On level ground, I don't really have any trouble getting moving and that's where I can spin the tires if I stomp on it. We've only made 4-5 trips with the new truck, so I'm still getting used to the difference between a gas engine with 390hp and a 4.3:1 rear end and a turbo diesel with 350hp and a 3.73:1 rear end. It would be nice to get near the 18-20mpg not towing and 14-15mpg towing that some claim they're getting. But those claims could just be a lot of hot air.....


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## willingtonpaul

Insomniak said:


> [so I'm still getting used to the difference between a gas engine with 390hp and a 4.3:1 rear end and a turbo diesel with 350hp and a 3.73:1 rear end. It would be nice to get near the 18-20mpg not towing and 14-15mpg towing that some claim they're getting. But those claims could just be a lot of hot air.....


the turbo does little to nothing when you first get going, but once you start rolling and making boost, that is where is kicks the pants off a gasser. diesels are for fuel mileage and longevity, not off the line performance (unless tuned hot, then you lose the two big advantages). i know you know that, but it just stands saying again. those are pretty good grades you're talking about, so i think you can't ask for much more from any truck in those situations. you could try tuning it with a tow specific tune, but now you are out into the land of warranty tundra (every pun intended), and on a new truck i for one would not want to go there.

and fuel mileage claims are rarely accurate, thats for sure. but i do think that after 20-25k on your motor, your MPG's will go up. you are definitely not anywhere near broken in. i also feel that at some point in the near future i will see a bump, as i have it from reliable sources that the ford 6.7L does the same.


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## Insomniak

willingtonpaul said:


> [so I'm still getting used to the difference between a gas engine with 390hp and a 4.3:1 rear end and a turbo diesel with 350hp and a 3.73:1 rear end. It would be nice to get near the 18-20mpg not towing and 14-15mpg towing that some claim they're getting. But those claims could just be a lot of hot air.....


you could try tuning it with a tow specific tune, but now you are out into the land of warranty tundra (every pun intended)[/quote]
Lol, I hear ya. With my luck, I don't think I want to go there. Turbo lag is definitely something new for me, and I think I remember reading that the Ram trucks have a bit more than others.


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## TwoElkhounds

Insomniak said:


> It would be nice to get near the 18-20mpg not towing and 14-15mpg towing that some claim they're getting. But those claims could just be a lot of hot air.....


I don't drive my 5.9 solo much, but I think I am easily getting 18 mpg when I am not towing. Of course, a lot of this depends on the terrain and weather.

Typical mileage when towing is around 12 mpg, but it can drop to 10-11 mpg if it is windy or towing in the mountains. I have gotten near 15 mpg on ocassion, but the situation has to be perfect. Strong tail wind, no hills, and speed kept down to 55 mph. This is a rare occurance.

The biggest mileage impact you have control over is your speed. I did some testing on a trip a few years back and found that keeping my speed down to around 50-55mph increased my mileage by 30% when compared to driving 65-70mph. I am not normally patient enough to do this, but maybe the people with the inflated mileage claims are driving slow?

Note that I really do not track my mileage with pen and paper, I just use the trip computer so the numbers may be off a bit. I might actually be getting the mileage you are getting and not even know it.









DAN


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## Todd&Regan

I went ahead and purchased an Edge Evolution CTS a month ago. I know it's kind of a gamble when it comes to warranty issues, but I've had Edge programmers on each of my two past F-150's and have been very pleased with them. Edge ensures that their programs are safe to use and will not risk engine/transmission damage. What difference the CTS made to my Ecoboost! Turbo lag is gone, I'm getting more boost, and my transmission shifts more firm. I have not towed my Outback since installing the programmer. I'm hoping the added torque will keep my truck in overdrive more, thus increasing mpg.


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