# Electrical Trouble



## ZHB (Mar 17, 2009)

So I went to pull the OB from storage 2 weekends ago, when it was 70 and sunny. Well, I had a flat. I got several thing done inside the camper, but mainly I learned the hard way how to change a flat properly on a 4-ton travel trailer. The bad news: when I hooked up the battery, I put the negative wire on the positive terminal. I started to put the positive wire on the negative side, but I caught it..... it may have touched, but I'm not sure. I just don't know. I then reversed them and hooked it up properly. I went inside and checked the radio and lights, which both worked OK. I'm thinking I dodged that bullet.

So, I went back to get the OB this past weekend, and now it is cold and rainy all weekend. When I pulled out of the storage lot, I noticed that the running lights were not on. Brake lights were fine, but the turn signals were out too. When I got home, I rubbed some superfine sandpaper in the slots on the 7-pin cable, and then they worked perfectly.

Saturday morning - break in the rain. I go out and plug into shore power (15 amp), crank up the furnace and start de-winterizing. I drain the antifreeze everywhere, and turn on the electric water heater. Water's running great, heat's on, lights & radio on; fridge is getting cold. My wife has plugged in one of those Airwick scented oil things to help freshen it up a bit.

A couple hours later, it has started raining again. The shore power cord is hooked with a dogbone to an extension cord, and to a GFCI in the garage. The connections are getting wet. I haven't tried the TV yet, so I try to turn it on, and nothing. I troubleshoot a bit, and then check the GFCI, which is tripped. I reset it, the TV works fine (had to get ready for the Duke/Carolina game.) The TV is on the wall outlets. I yanked that plug-in thing form the wall, but that wasn't it.

A little while later, I notice that we don't have any hot water. I then realize I forgot to hit the hot water bypass valve. So, I turn off the heater, then open the bypass. A few minutes later, I turn on the elec heater again. And then I go to try the TV again.... nothing. Again, it's raining hard, and the connections outside are wet....the GFCI is tripped, so I'm on battery.

I reset the GFCI - it won't reset. I then went thru several cycles of turning everything off, then plugging back in & blowing the GFCI. I turned off the breaker in the OB, and powered them on one at a time.....when I would hit the breaker labeled [REC/CON] it would trip the GFCI. Shortly after this, even with everything off, if I tripped the main, it would blow the GFCI. Did I mention it was raining the whole time? I never got the TV back on. Is [REC/CON] the converter?

I checked the fuses - especially the reverse-voltage fuses there in the fusebox - and they were OK (there were sparks when I pulled them though.) The GFCI never came back on. Eventually I just lived with it on battery.

The next morning, in a steady rain still, I packed it all back up and pulled the OB back to storage. I'll probably get it back out this weekend, so I can figure this out. Unfortunately, there's no power at my storage.

SO~ my big questions here are:

What is [REC/CON]? The converter? Would I have a reverse polarity problem, even though the fuses didn't look burned? The radio & everything looked OK, and the TV was good for a bit - so I'm assuming the reverse polarity fuses were OK. Are all my problems here likely because of the wetness outside? Is it possible I have a short inside, or that I have messed up my converter? (In a nutshell, am I screwed, or is this easy to fix?)


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Well do you have a volt meter to really check things? Looks can sometimes be deceiving on fuses.

There are several things to check but the GFI only protects the outlets and should not be on the same circuit as the converter. Last but not least do not trust any of the labels in the breaker panel unless you have verified them.


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## outback loft (Sep 22, 2008)

ZHB said:


> So I went to pull the OB from storage 2 weekends ago, when it was 70 and sunny. Well, I had a flat. I got several thing done inside the camper, but mainly I learned the hard way how to change a flat properly on a 4-ton travel trailer. The bad news: when I hooked up the battery, I put the negative wire on the positive terminal. I started to put the positive wire on the negative side, but I caught it..... it may have touched, but I'm not sure. I just don't know. I then reversed them and hooked it up properly. I went inside and checked the radio and lights, which both worked OK. I'm thinking I dodged that bullet.
> 
> So, I went back to get the OB this past weekend, and now it is cold and rainy all weekend. When I pulled out of the storage lot, I noticed that the running lights were not on. Brake lights were fine, but the turn signals were out too. When I got home, I rubbed some superfine sandpaper in the slots on the 7-pin cable, and then they worked perfectly.
> 
> ...


REC/CON is receptacles and converter. You are having a problem on the 120 volt side. the fuses have nothing to do with that, they are for the 12 volt side. If the GFCI is popping, there are a few possible causes. More than likely one of the outlets is either getting wet, or has a loose wire. A properly working GFCI will not reset if there is no power getting to it. I have also found that if I have an electric heater on when I try to reset a breaker it will not reset. I have to turn off the heater in order to do so. I usually pop a breaker if I have two electric heaters running on the same circuit, or if I have them on two separate circuits and turn on the microwave.


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## outback loft (Sep 22, 2008)

CamperAndy said:


> Well do you have a volt meter to really check things? Looks can sometimes be deceiving on fuses.
> 
> There are several things to check but the GFI only protects the outlets and should not be on the same circuit as the converter. Last but not least do not trust any of the labels in the breaker panel unless you have verified them.


The converter can be on the same circuit as the GFCI and the converter is actually plugged into an outlet, or directly wired to one of the circuits. In my case I have an outlet that it is plugged into and I moved it off the same circuit as the GFCI. I have two GFCI outlets on two separate circuits. One is my outdoor and kitchen outlet, and the other is my bathroom outlet. Everything he is describing is an issue on the 120 volt side of things.


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

ZHB said:


> So I went to pull the OB from storage 2 weekends ago, when it was 70 and sunny. Well, I had a flat. I got several thing done inside the camper, but mainly I learned the hard way how to change a flat properly on a 4-ton travel trailer. The bad news: when I hooked up the battery, I put the negative wire on the positive terminal. I started to put the positive wire on the negative side, but I caught it..... it may have touched, but I'm not sure. I just don't know. I then reversed them and hooked it up properly. I went inside and checked the radio and lights, which both worked OK. I'm thinking I dodged that bullet.
> 
> So, I went back to get the OB this past weekend, and now it is cold and rainy all weekend. When I pulled out of the storage lot, I noticed that the running lights were not on. Brake lights were fine, but the turn signals were out too. When I got home, I rubbed some superfine sandpaper in the slots on the 7-pin cable, and then they worked perfectly.
> 
> ...


I see 2 possible problems; extension cords in the water and extension cords being used to hook up the camper period. I had tried to plug into an extension cord before with the camper and it ended up sucking all the electricity out of the battery instead of trying to charge it. The problem is the voltage drop will not keep the GFI in. If you have to use an extension cord use at least a 12 gauge, even better is a 10 gauge cord as short as possible. You can, as long as you are not trying to power everything plug into a 15 amp circuit but you have to remember that the Converter takes 10 to 13 amps itself, so that's why any power drop is a bad thing. I would see if you can find a heavier extension cord before trying it again and I think you will have less problems. A 30 amp camper extension cord runs about $35 or a good 12 gauge cord runs $25+. I do believe that REC/CON is the converter.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

outback loft said:


> The converter can be on the same circuit as the GFCI and the converter is actually plugged into an outlet, or directly wired to one of the circuits. In my case I have an outlet that it is plugged into and I moved it off the same circuit as the GFCI. I have two GFCI outlets on two separate circuits. One is my outdoor and kitchen outlet, and the other is my bathroom outlet. Everything he is describing is an issue on the 120 volt side of things.


Well it shouldn't be. I have a GFI specific circuit and the REC/Con is not GFI protected. Not saying Gilligan didn't make a mistake or two but not sure why the converter should be GFI protected.


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## ZHB (Mar 17, 2009)

Thanks guys. I do have a voltmeter, but I'm not positive where to start.

Yes, I was using a 14-gauge extension cord. I've used it before, and it's been OK as long as the AC was off (of course it was dry at the time too.)

Sounds like I may not have any actual damage though....... I'll do some more checking this weekend. I'll also try to find a 30amp extension cord and run that straight into the garage (then thru the dogbone into the GFCI.)


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## KTMRacer (Jun 28, 2010)

A few hints:

1) you mention that you turned on the electric heat with the water heater in bypass position. If the element was not submerged in water (tank empty or partially empty) it is likely that the electric element died almost immediately. (within seconds). It is possible it has shorted or has developed a leakage path to ground. I'd turn off the water heater breaker until you verify the electric element

2) Also the rec/conv is the recepticle/converter breaker for the NON GFI protected outlets. the GFI protected outlets are on another 15A breaker.

3 ) If you try to plug in an electric heater to one of the non GFI breakers AND have the converter on with a partially discharged battery AND/OR the fridge on electric, you run a good chance of tripping the 15A breaker. a heater will draw up to 12A (1500W) , the fridge draws 3-4 A (400W), the converter draws anywhere from 1A to 12A (1500VA) . You can easily see how you can easily and unkowingly overload that breaker. the lucky thing is it hard to get the standard converter (WFCO 55A) to draw more than about 5A, good news and bad news. hard to quickly recharge batteries since it seldom will output the full 55A it is capable of.


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## Chuggs (Jun 8, 2010)

Is the outlet that you have your extension cord plugged into still hot?

I would have expected the way you turned on so many loads that you would have tripped the 15amp/20amp breaker inside your home... The main on the RV won't trip until you exceed 30amp (or 50amp if you have one of those)

Whenever I used to use the 15amp dogbone...I would only use it to run the converter to charge the batteries...once they'd had a chance to charge...I would turn on the fridge. Other than that...only 12v lights, etc... 15 or 20 amps isn't a lot to work with.

The radio working isn't indicitave of anything 120 v related...since it's 12vdc.


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## ZHB (Mar 17, 2009)

OK guys - how can I tell if the heating element has shorted or other wise "gone bad"?

Besides of course waiting to see if it heats water........


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

ZHB said:


> OK guys - how can I tell if the heating element has shorted or other wise "gone bad"?
> 
> Besides of course waiting to see if it heats water........


Check the resistance across the element. (I'm sure Andy will have the correct value, but if it's infinite or zero, you have an issue)


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## hautevue (Mar 8, 2009)

HWH element: yep, you guessed it. The test is to see if it makes hot water.

Turn the by-pass knob to allow water into the heater. Run hot water from the faucet until you're sure the tank is full (water comes steadily out the faucet without spitting air, etc.) and then turn the heater on. Wait 15 minutes. No hot water? Then you have a dead element (or the power's off to the unit...Make sure the switch on the unit itself is on. Mine is accessed from the HWH access panel outside and is hidden somewhat on the lower face of the "works" inside. It's a rocker switch. You also have to have the inside panel switch "on"--mine has two choices--Hot Water Heater Electric and Hot Water heater Gas.

Good luck!


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Nathan said:


> OK guys - how can I tell if the heating element has shorted or other wise "gone bad"?
> 
> Besides of course waiting to see if it heats water........


Check the resistance across the element. (I'm sure Andy will have the correct value, but if it's infinite or zero, you have an issue)
[/quote]

Depending on the element it should read from 4 to 9 ohms.


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## ZHB (Mar 17, 2009)

I am happy to report - on a nice dry weekend, everything worked like a charm. 

It's amazing how much better electricity functions without water all around..........


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## CdnOutback (Apr 16, 2010)

Alright!! Good to hear it!


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