# Used Diesel Vehicle Help



## ZoccNY

So, I'm thinking about going with a diesel for my next TV. I'm looking used, less than 5 years old, Chevy/GMC or Ford. I've never owned a diesel before, and I'm totally at a loss as to what to look/listen for as far as signs of abuse or problems.







So, I'm feeling a bit like a sitting duck for being taken advantage of by a used car salesman (a novel thought, I know). What do I need to ask or look out for?

TIA

PJ


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## GarethsDad

Stay away from the 1st year of any new engine (bugs to work out) inless its the ford 6.0 then its two years. Any truck with to few miles on it (like a 4 year old truck with less than 40,000 on it) diesels are meant to be run. James


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## Lmbevard

Why not Dodge! Just saying... Otherwise, like the man said, Diesels are made to run hard. Otherwise, listen for skipping and watch for blowing puffs of smoke when pulling away from the lot. Needless to say, a diesel will sound like a diesel, clatter and all. Also, GMC and Ford's diesels should last a good 250,000 miles with no problems, an older Dodge Cummins engine should last for 350 - 500,000 before needing an overhaul, so mileage is less important with a diesel engine than with a gasser. When I got mine it had 145,000 miles on it. The only difference that made was the addition wear and tear on the tranny which needed rebuilt and I got the truck for $3500 less than book. On a diesel engine, as long as there is compression, fuel and air, you should be able to go. They are less dependent on electrics, but the new the truck, the more electron crap they put on it. Personally of the 2, I like the GMC better than Ford even though one of the guys at work loves Fords and wouldn't have anything different.Me, I'm a fan of the Cummins engine because of it being overbuilt.


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## jdpm

Don't be afraid of low mileage. As with any vehicle, HOW its been driven is the most important. Our truck was purchased new in 2006 and has only 33k miles on it. It is worked and driven hard when driven as it is used only to tow our fiver. Using a diesel pick-up for errand hoping and occassional light driving is not good. So look for low miles but ask how it's been driven and look for a fiver hitch. Then it's probably been driven well. I agree with the prvious post about the Cummins, too. My 2 cents. phillip


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## ZoccNY

Thanks for the input and thoughts!

So, maybe I shouldn't be thinking diesel??? This will be my daily driver, as well as our long-tripper and tow vehicle. The reason I'm wanting a diesel is when we upgrade from the 23KRS to a larger rv, I don't want to be limited by my TV. But I'm a year away from an upgrade. Plus, I've always been a lease guy, since I get bored with vehicles after 2 years. This is going to be a long-term vehicle purchase so I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing here. Here's a couple that I'm looking at... with the little info I have, what's your thoughts???

'05 GMC 3500 Dually 42K miles, fully loaded, leather, DVD, etc... $34,000 (I thought they're asking too much)

'06 GMC 2500 Crew 40K miles, leather, moon roof, etc... $32,000

'07 Chevy 2500 Crew 50K miles, long box, LT1... $32,000

(side note: Can you tow a 5th wheel with a short box???)


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## ZoccNY

Oh, no disrespect to the Dodge owners... just always been a Chevy guy!


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## Joonbee

ZoccNY said:


> Thanks for the input and thoughts!
> 
> So, maybe I shouldn't be thinking diesel??? This will be my daily driver, as well as our long-tripper and tow vehicle. The reason I'm wanting a diesel is when we upgrade from the 23KRS to a larger rv, I don't want to be limited by my TV. But I'm a year away from an upgrade. Plus, I've always been a lease guy, since I get bored with vehicles after 2 years. This is going to be a long-term vehicle purchase so I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing here. Here's a couple that I'm looking at... with the little info I have, what's your thoughts???
> 
> '05 GMC 3500 Dually 42K miles, fully loaded, leather, DVD, etc... $34,000 (I thought they're asking too much) NOT GOOD FOR DAILY DRIVER
> 
> '06 GMC 2500 Crew 40K miles, leather, moon roof, etc... $32,000
> 
> '07 Chevy 2500 Crew 50K miles, long box, LT1... $32,000
> 
> (side note: Can you tow a 5th wheel with a short box???) YES


Where are you located?

Jim


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## ZoccNY

Syracuse, NY


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## cwh

The duramax is a great powerplant. Stay away from the first few year. 05 and on shouldn't be an issue. I'm running an 08 powerstroke now as well as a 97 powerstroke. The are both great trucks and have tons of power. The 08 tows like a dream. Gets it moving no problem and more importantly has the braking power to get it slowed down safely. As for towing with a shortbed, you need a slider 5th wheel if you tow with a shortbed. It's just a cab/trailer clearance issue during slow speed turning manuvers. Slide the hitch back while backing and its a non issue. I know my limitations now and rarely slide the 5th wheel back. Just my 2 cents.


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## maddog

My diesel is an every day driver. Not any problems! Diesels are meant to be used hard not abused. As with any engine abuse will kill it. Just stay away from early 6.0 Fords. I am a Ford owner and will not own anything else but I do like the Duramax with the allison transmission in the Chevy and GMC, awsome trucks! Fifth wheels can be towed with a short box you should have a slider hitch for the tight situations. I hardly ever slide mine but nice to have just in case.


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## GarethsDad

We have 4 diesels, 2 are daily drivers, 1 off road and 1 for towing. Three are 4 wheel drive and the other is just 2 wheel. Our daily drivers go 25 and 30 miles one way, five days a week. How far is is your drive? James


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## Joonbee

ZoccNY said:


> Syracuse, NY


Ah. Just checkin. My local dealer (where I bought mine) is a big truck guy and loves diesels. Buys at auction or dealer trade and fixes them up and resells. He has several Fords and Chevys right now, but it would be a ride for ya. Pm me if interested and I will get you his website to check out what he has. (not sure about posting stuff like that on forum)

Oh and I love my Chevy. Also had an 05 Ford, blew headgaskets and turbo. Covered under warranty and then I modded it. No problems after ARP head studs. Pulled like a mule, got 12-13mpg towing our 5er. Unfortunatley only got 14-15mpg empty. CHevy is modded and I get 12towing and upper teens when empty. Older Fords 99-03 w/7.3 watch the trans. It will be fine as long as you monitor it. Have a few friends who have burnt em up, but no gauges. Bigger coolers and gauges and they have been fine.

So, also check to see if it has been modded. If ha been done right and not abused, that is good for you. If it was owned by a drag racer or puller than you don't want those problem in longevity. Hopefully set mine up to survive the long haul and be as efficient as possible. Let ya know in 10 years.

Good luck,
Jim


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## fourwalls

we have a 05 dmax and love it. we use it to pull fiver and run around town. We bought it used 2 years ago and have been happy so far. Good luck with your search


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## Nathan

ZoccNY said:


> Thanks for the input and thoughts!
> 
> So, maybe I shouldn't be thinking diesel??? This will be my daily driver, as well as our long-tripper and tow vehicle. The reason I'm wanting a diesel is when we upgrade from the 23KRS to a larger rv, I don't want to be limited by my TV. But I'm a year away from an upgrade. Plus, I've always been a lease guy, since I get bored with vehicles after 2 years
> 
> ......
> 
> (side note: Can you tow a 5th wheel with a short box???)


You know, you CAN lease a truck too.








My 08 is a 3 year lease. I'm the same type in that I get bored, and didn't want to have 40k into a truck. I looked at buying used, but I leased new for less than the monthly payments on a used truck. Don't want to start a war here, just wanted to make sure you were aware of your options....


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## Carey

All of the newer 2008 and up emission trucks still have issues.

Dodge is known for check engine light problems. Also egr soot plugging which clogs the turbo and egr/ports.

The new fords still have turbo issues. We have had some lose pistons too caused by screwed up injectors.

The new chevs have been having broken crankshaft issues. We have had several break cranks at 2-300k. New engine is needed then. GM seems to be the best with the new emission stuff. Except for crankshaft issues.

Try and find a 2006 or early 2007 chevy if thats what youd like. The LBZ duramax is the best dmax ever made.

But who knows. I met a guy last week with 1,170,000 miles on a 2001 GMC dmax. It was on its 7th set of injectors. Had to replace engine at 300k because of injector trouble. Now has 800k on this engine. It was on its 3rd tranny. Original rear end, 2nd trans case. Pretty incredible.

I have a truck sitting right behind me that is a 2005 chev. It just flipped 700k. Heads have never been off the truck. 2nd tranny and 3rd set of injectors. Its been a good truck for him.

The 2005 to 2007 dmax trucks are every bit as good as the cummins. Just cost more to repair. That would be my pick. LBZ dmax if youd like a chevy.

Another guy just left, has a 2005 dodge. 781k. Original engine, 2nd tranny, orig rear end. 2nd set of injectors. Replaced them at 550k cause he thought they should be worn out, lol Said it ran no different with a new 4000 dollar set of injectors. It a manual nv5600 trans. Pretty incredible too

Carey


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## TwoElkhounds

ZoccNY said:


> Thanks for the input and thoughts!
> 
> So, maybe I shouldn't be thinking diesel??? This will be my daily driver, as well as our long-tripper and tow vehicle. The reason I'm wanting a diesel is when we upgrade from the 23KRS to a larger rv, I don't want to be limited by my TV. But I'm a year away from an upgrade. Plus, I've always been a lease guy, since I get bored with vehicles after 2 years. This is going to be a long-term vehicle purchase so I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing here. Here's a couple that I'm looking at... with the little info I have, what's your thoughts???
> 
> '05 GMC 3500 Dually 42K miles, fully loaded, leather, DVD, etc... $34,000 (I thought they're asking too much)
> 
> '06 GMC 2500 Crew 40K miles, leather, moon roof, etc... $32,000
> 
> '07 Chevy 2500 Crew 50K miles, long box, LT1... $32,000
> 
> (side note: Can you tow a 5th wheel with a short box???)


I have not been in the used truck market for some time, but those prices seem really high!!

I didn't pay much more than this for my new 2006 CTD Megacab a few years back.

DAN


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## Carey

There is now a shortage of used trucks. Prices are going up. Those sound high too but used trucks are in short supply.

The clunker program really screwed up used car inventory too.

Fewer new vehicles are being bought so now used prices are begining to go up.

I wouldnt want to pay more than 25k for a 4-5 year old truck. Just too much that can go wrong with a used diesel. Buy an extended warranty too.

Carey


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## Joonbee

Yeah. My truck new was $35. Carey hit the price range and ext. warranty. But I would find one that is still within its original warranty, so you can fall back on that for sure and then after you get a feel for what you have, you can make the ext. warranty decision. Alot of companies are offering them.

Jim


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## Carey

I hope those 35k days arent over Jim. Seems that the prices on new dont have the incentives they used to have.

Carey


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## TwoElkhounds

I guess I got lucky. We bought at one of the few times Dodge offered a $5k rebate on diesels. The rebate only lasted about one month on 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. This rebate helped us "pull the trigger" on the diesel. I remember when we were shopping and the lots were overflowing with trucks. Some dealers had nearly a hundred to choose from. My have times changed. Many of the dealers are no longer in business, including the dealer we bought our truck from.

DAN


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## Carey

Sad times it is Dan. Same happened around my home town too..

Carey


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## Joonbee

Yeah, I hope they return also. We had the same luck. Dealer took 5k off and 10k rebate from Chevy and they gave us more for our 2 trades than anyone else was at the time. So, we couldn't NOT buy.

Hopefully the strong that survive will not take it out on us later.

Jim


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## GarethsDad

You may want to look at the auto auctions it PA. Also look into Autotrader. Mine came from a commercial truck dealer in near Reading PA. It was a Texas oil truck. James


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## ZoccNY

Nathan-

My current TV is a lease, but I'm gonna be so far over on the miles that leasing for my TV is no longer gonna be an option.

Yeah, the market for used trucks/diesels really has thinned out, thus the prices have creeped up. The 3 trucks I mentioned were for reference, and I'm very early in my search for a vehicle. I skim through the auto trader from time to time just to have an idea of what I'm gonna end up paying. The more I research this, the less I feel like I'll "need" at 1 ton, and will be just fine with a 3/4 ton with some mods.

James- the PA auction... is there a website???

I may just end up pulling the trigger on a new truck, but the lease is up on the wife's beemer about 3 months before the Chevy, and I'm trying to minimize the damage on the bank account this summer!

And for you Dodge disciples, I'm opening my options back up to the Ram...

I don't know that Jerzee is too far to drive for a good deal.

Great discussion and input, guys! I really appreciate it!

PJ


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## Nathan

I hear you on mileage on leases. It doesn't make any sense if you are going to run over on miles, especially on the trucks. At least for Ford, the overage amount is based on MSRP on the truck. As mine was over 50K sticker, the additional mileage cost makes you never want to go over it.









Now on the Gas vs. Diesel question, you might want to consider your options. Sure Diesel has loads of torque and gets better fuel economy. However, it's also a $9,000 option on today's trucks. I bet you could get a used F250 V10 for a pretty good price and as several members here will tell you, they pull great for a gas engine.


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## nynethead

I have an 06 cc chevy and use it as a daily driver. The 06 was the last before the low sulfer engine on 07. gets the best mileage of the diesels.

have a short bed and pull a 5'er does great. i get 12 or so pulling the 5'er at 65, 16-18 around town empty, 16 winter 18 rest of year.

i am sure the extra warming up time is cutting the mileage. I get 20+ on the highway at 70-75 coming back from the shore between shifts.

I was only offered 21K at the end of 2009 as a trade with 45K so the prices your getting really seem high.


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## GarethsDad

ZoccNY said:


> Nathan-
> 
> My current TV is a lease, but I'm gonna be so far over on the miles that leasing for my TV is no longer gonna be an option.
> 
> Yeah, the market for used trucks/diesels really has thinned out, thus the prices have creeped up. The 3 trucks I mentioned were for reference, and I'm very early in my search for a vehicle. I skim through the auto trader from time to time just to have an idea of what I'm gonna end up paying. The more I research this, the less I feel like I'll "need" at 1 ton, and will be just fine with a 3/4 ton with some mods.
> 
> James- the PA auction... is there a website???
> 
> I may just end up pulling the trigger on a new truck, but the lease is up on the wife's beemer about 3 months before the Chevy, and I'm trying to minimize the damage on the bank account this summer!
> 
> And for you Dodge disciples, I'm opening my options back up to the Ram...
> 
> I don't know that Jerzee is too far to drive for a good deal.
> 
> Great discussion and input, guys! I really appreciate it!
> 
> PJ


There is a web site, but you need to be a dealer to log in to it now. There is a used diesel dealer in Central Square http://www.trucksrus.biz/trucksrusinventory.html and one in PA that I went to to test drive 3 trucks http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/dda/index.jsp?dealership_view_name=www.crosscountryent.com&address=13029&car_id=274051175&dealer_id=1151175&mis_search_type=both . James


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## sunnybrook29

Carey,
If someone had a gun to your head and said that you had to buy a 2010 diesel , what would ya buy ?
A great big gun !


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## Nathan

sunnybrook29 said:


> Carey,
> If someone had a gun to your head and said that you had to buy a 2010 diesel , what would ya buy ?
> A great big gun !


Really.... you think you need to ask that???


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## Carey

sunnybrook29 said:


> Carey,
> If someone had a gun to your head and said that you had to buy a 2010 diesel , what would ya buy ?
> A great big gun !


2010.. Heck just like Nathan said, no gun needed.. Id buy the new 2010 dodge. That truck is every bit as nice as a ford. The cab redesign is right in there with the ford.

If I had to buy the present dodge 2009. Id want to drive the chevy and do a hard comparo. Chevys emmision system has been very trouble free for the most part. The 2009 dodge has pretty much had the emission bugs worked out and is doing much better than it used to do. The jake brake on the dodge is incredible and the new dodge 6 speed auto is bullet proof and is every bit as good as the allison. The chevy dmax is much harder to service comparred to the dodge so again, dodge would be no.1 but would consider a chev if I wasnt going to keep it past the warranty. Just compare fuel filter service on the two. Better yet call a dodge dealer and get a quote on doing a crankshaft sensor. Now call the chevy dealer.. lol about 3 grand difference. You can do the dodge for a few hundred. The chev needs the whole front of the engine dismantled. Crankshaft sensors do go bad..

Until ford gets an engine that is on par with the other two, and that engine doesnt require cab removal to repair many parts of the engine. Id never want anything to do with a ford. Sorry. When that truck is out of warranty it would break you if it broke down. Worst engineering Ive ever seen when it comes to servicing that engine.

The only way Id want anything to do with a ford is if it had a v10 engine. Quite possibly the new ford engine coming here soon will still be on par with the v10.

Most likely the new ford engine will be a high horsepower gas engine like the 6.2 chevy and the dodge hemi, but will lack the torque the present v10 has. I havent kept up the news on the new ford gasser. Who knows.

The new 2010 dodge is now king of the big trucks. That hopefully will change when the new scorp diesel comes from ford.( I like competition) But that whole new ford combo is going to need some real public proving done before Id have it.

Go drive the new 2010 dodge and tell me what you think...

Im getting the heck out of here and going back to canada tomorrow.. Flame on.. lol Trash me out guys.. I will cruising thru the tundra in my trouble free 300k mile dodge.. I wont be back till the fire has already been doused!

Carey


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## Carey

Well... I guess I should tell the truth... I almost had flame on in my dodge last night.

I was driving along and all the sudden the blower motor quits. Had a smoke fest coming from around the steering column too. Smelled like wires burning. I turned off the blower fan and it went away. I thought about just pulling off and feeding it some gas for grins. Id take a new truck anyway. lol

Man it got cold fast as I was up by Fargo.

I pulled off and fired up the genny and figured Id figure it out in the morn.

Got up and done some investigating and the REALLY dumb dodge engineers pull power off of the ingintion switch for the blower motor. Well that connection fried..

So I hacked the main power wire for the blower and ran one right to the battery. Now I have to shut the blower off everytime I shut the truck down. It will have to last till I can replace the ingintion switch and the connector that plugs in to the ig switch.. But that connection will now be used to signal a good 50 amp relay to run the blower motor. The way THEY should have done it to begin with! Yep will fix that garbage!

I cant believe how stupid the wiring dude is who done this. Pulling 30+ amps from the ignition switch has always been a big no no. Dang ***********!

As mad as I was about this, maybe I would change my mind....

Get the chevy if you wouldnt want to enjoy all the OTHER great stuff dodge offers in there trucks. Like blue wires that are now brown from the burn..

Arggg!

Carey


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## Nathan

I think Carey will be pleased with the 2011 F-Series, except for the fact it doesn't have Ram horns on the grill or a 'C' on the fender...


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## Joonbee

I must say I am happy he even considered the Chevy, but to put in 2nd.









Although, I am pulling for the new Ford motor to be a good one. While we are all being honest, my dream truck is a King Ranch.

Good luck with the wiring Carey and good call on that genny install huh.

Jim


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## Carey

Jim I think the LBZ duramax is every bit as good as the cummins. We have a bunch of LBZ chevs with 5-800000 on em and never had the heads off. I know of one with 700k on it and it has the original injectors.

I would own either for pulling rvs for money. A gen 3 5.9 dodge and a LBZ chev are equals in my book.

I love the ford too, its just the problem with having to remove the cab to do many engine repairs doesnt work for us kind of guys.

I delivered my trailer in red deer toady and am back in havre, mt. I was washing the rv at the truck wash and noticed I had a broken front wheel stud. Luckilly on a dually I dont even have to pull the wheel to replace it. I have an adapter that bolts to the axle to bolt the budd wheels on. So one swing with the 5lb bfh and the stud poped out and onto the ground.

Next problem is finding a wheel stud and nut. Youd think havre dodge would have one, but never know. Otherwise I'll have to pick one up in Fargo sat morn.

Blower moter is still working. I think its about wore out cause it sounds noiser than it used to. Maybe thats why it was pulling too much and smoked the ig switch. They still have it wired wrong reguardless. They are only 66 bucks dealer list so maybe I throw one in if they have one tomorrow.

Yeah my genny already has about 100 hours on it since I started using it 2 weeks ago. I just have it running a 1500 watt heater. I have to switch it to 1000 watts cause 1500 watts of heat in a truck cab will make it feel like im in mexico. lol

So my gen only uses just over 1 gallon for 10 hours. Its basically not working hard cause it makes 3500 watts. We'll see how long she lasts.

Carey


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## Joonbee

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Jim I think the LBZ duramax is every bit as good as the cummins. We have a bunch of LBZ chevs with 5-800000 on em and never had the heads off. I know of one with 700k on it and it has the original injectors.
> 
> I would own either for pulling rvs for money. A gen 3 5.9 dodge and a LBZ chev are equals in my book.
> 
> I love the ford too, its just the problem with having to remove the cab to do many engine repairs doesnt work for us kind of guys.
> 
> I delivered my trailer in red deer toady and am back in havre, mt. I was washing the rv at the truck wash and noticed I had a broken front wheel stud. Luckilly on a dually I dont even have to pull the wheel to replace it. I have an adapter that bolts to the axle to bolt the budd wheels on. So one swing with the 5lb bfh and the stud poped out and onto the ground.
> 
> Next problem is finding a wheel stud and nut. Youd think havre dodge would have one, but never know. Otherwise I'll have to pick one up in Fargo sat morn.
> 
> Blower moter is still working. I think its about wore out cause it sounds noiser than it used to. Maybe thats why it was pulling too much and smoked the ig switch. They still have it wired wrong reguardless. They are only 66 bucks dealer list so maybe I throw one in if they have one tomorrow.
> 
> Yeah my genny already has about 100 hours on it since I started using it 2 weeks ago. I just have it running a 1500 watt heater. I have to switch it to 1000 watts cause 1500 watts of heat in a truck cab will make it feel like im in mexico. lol
> 
> So my gen only uses just over 1 gallon for 10 hours. Its basically not working hard cause it makes 3500 watts. We'll see how long she lasts.
> 
> Carey


Well I'm hopin to drive mine as long as I want, given what I have done to it.

Can't wait to follow the hours on the genny. You may be on to something, staying away from the truck power to run electronics.

Good luck with the Nascar raodside pitstop. Thank god my father was a mechanic and taught me enough to get me in trouble, you know the duct tape and paper towel theories on roadside maintenance and the ability to work on your own cars. A freind of mine said his father told hi long ago in the high school auto shop years. Son you either learn how to work on your own cars or get a job that you make enough to pay some one. Well he is a financial advisor and knows how to put gas in his car.

Not to completely hijack. How we doin on our search Zocc??

Jim


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## ZoccNY

No worries on the hijack! I actually like the conversation you guys are having back and forth. It makes me realize how extraordinarily uninformed I am about these things! What sucks is, I consider myself to be a fairly smart guy, but reading about all the mods and issues you guys do and have with not only your TVs but your RVs as well, makes me feel, well.... quite dumb. It's all good though! Keeps me from getting complacent about what to look for as far as maintenance and trouble spots. The information shared on this website is a great reference tool for us newbies. I appreciate the knowledge everyone puts out here!

So, I'm constantly browsing the usual websites for used vehicles. What's tough is I've got friends who have diesels and, like you guys, everyone I ask has a different opinion. Anyways, I'm gravitating towards a late model Chevy. I know that any diesel I choose will be a bit of overkill for what I'm towing, and am reconsidering a gas V10. The 23KRS fully loaded pushes the limits of my 1500. And I'm hoping to upgrade/upsize the RV after this season (should the wife allow it!), and don't wanna be limited by my TV. Hence, the desire for a diesel. Plus, since I'm going to get away from leasing, I want a vehicle I can keep for a long tiime. I like the miles you guys are getting out of them, and I'm taking notes of the maintenance issues y'all are providing. I'm a couple months away from making a purchase, and am trying to keep all my options open. Plus, if I keep the 23KRS long term, a long box diesel provides me with the option of putting a bike or more gear (generator, wheels, etc) in the bed of the truck when I've got 2 bikes in the RV.

And diesels just sound so cool!


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## Joonbee

ZoccNY said:


> No worries on the hijack! I actually like the conversation you guys are having back and forth. It makes me realize how extraordinarily uninformed I am about these things! What sucks is, I consider myself to be a fairly smart guy, but reading about all the mods and issues you guys do and have with not only your TVs but your RVs as well, makes me feel, well.... quite dumb. It's all good though! Keeps me from getting complacent about what to look for as far as maintenance and trouble spots. The information shared on this website is a great reference tool for us newbies. I appreciate the knowledge everyone puts out here!
> 
> So, I'm constantly browsing the usual websites for used vehicles. What's tough is I've got friends who have diesels and, like you guys, everyone I ask has a different opinion. Anyways, I'm gravitating towards a late model Chevy. I know that any diesel I choose will be a bit of overkill for what I'm towing, and am reconsidering a gas V10. The 23KRS fully loaded pushes the limits of my 1500. And I'm hoping to upgrade/upsize the RV after this season (should the wife allow it!), and don't wanna be limited by my TV. Hence, the desire for a diesel. Plus, since I'm going to get away from leasing, I want a vehicle I can keep for a long tiime. I like the miles you guys are getting out of them, and I'm taking notes of the maintenance issues y'all are providing. I'm a couple months away from making a purchase, and am trying to keep all my options open. Plus, if I keep the 23KRS long term, a long box diesel provides me with the option of putting a bike or more gear (generator, wheels, etc) in the bed of the truck when I've got 2 bikes in the RV.
> 
> And diesels just sound so cool!


Nah. None of us are dumb, we are just always learning









You will get alot of opinions. BEst thing to do is GO DRIVE. They are all close enough that it will come down to personal preference and price. We loved our Ford and couldn't pass up the deal on the Chevy. Got us out out of 2 payemnts for one and $200 less a month. Little longer term, but 0 miles vs. over 90k miles. So mine was price more than looks. Have always like Fords, but not more than that deal. They all do sound cool.

Go with whatever you can afford to upgrade too. That way you will not feel limited when you do look to upgrade the RV. We bought the diesel in anticipation of starting to go camping. Wound up with a 5er as our first camper for alot less than a bumper tow. Especially if you already have those thoughts.

I see ya ride with NESBA. I used to ride with TPM (Team Pro-Motion) and will again one day. The wife won't go long without having them. Took a break to start family and camping. Didn't want them to just sit. SO for example, as a beginner (white group) you can take a fully setup R1 (just an example, I had an RC51 and don't remember if you listed yours, anyway) out on the track to learn, in hopes that you can one day hang in the BLUE group. Now you don't have to buy a new bike, just because you moved up a class. Silly example but it allowed me to talk bikes and the track.









on edit: looked back and saw you were a GXSR guy, SAAAWWWEEEEEEEEETT!

Jim


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## rsm7

I've been following your thread too zoccNY as I also need an upgrade. When I bought my truck I didnt have a camper and an extended cab half ton was all I needed for myself. Its a daily driver so fuel mileage was important. I considered a 3/4 ton but decided I really didnt need it. Right after towing our camper I knew it wasnt enough truck. Besides that I really need a crew cab for guests or the dog or whatever. As a stop gap I traded the second car (an Impala) for a V10 Excursion and my wife drives it. Sucks on gas but she doesnt go far. I love that truck and the V10. It will get me through this year and I will replace my truck but I dont know with what. I want a diesel but it is a little bit of overkill for what I do. I could get by with a big gasser but it would kill me in fuel as a daily driver. Im not crazy about this latest batch of emission controlled diesels and I really dont have 50k for a truck anyway. 35k is about my limit. So in late model used I guess I like the Ford platform best but their motors seem to get the worst fuel economy and have the most problems. It would make me scared to buy a Ford. I like the Duramax/Allison best and thats probably at the top of my list. Never been a Dodge guy and just cant get into that (sorry boys). I am also keeping a close eye on the 2011 Ford F250's. I probably wont spring for a scorpian diesel but the 6.2l gasser looks intriguing. If they can get the highway mileage close to 1/2 ton range I might buy one. Supposed to have HP and torque in the 400/400 range with a new 6 speed gear box. In the mean time I sit and drool over diesel trucks I cant really afford! But that never stopped me before LOL! You guys dont know me but if I actually waited the year to trade my truck it would be a miracle! For me this message board, and the internet in general, is like a gambler working in a casino!


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## OregonCampin

When we bought our Outback (23KRS) we had an F150. With the two dirt bikes, full of water and a bed full of wood, that poor truck was constantly working. About 6 months into Outback ownership we traded the F150 for a F350 V-10. It was a GREAT truck, but you had better know where the gas station is.... all the time. The V-10 averaged about 10 MPH whether pulling or not. Then, one day while dropping the V-10 off for service we wandered around the used car lot and low and behold - an F250 diesel - it's a 2002, but only had 43K miles on it. It belonged to an "older" gentleman that only used the truck to pull his travel trailer. We paid $21,500 from a dealer - this was about a year ago.


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## Carey

Yep, Jim is right, dont worry about how long it will run and get the brand you want. If buying used try and get the best of the brand. For chevs, its late 2005 to early 2007. The engine will have a LBZ designation. These are the best dmax's ever made.

Man those small town dealers didnt feel sorry for me at all. I found the wheel stud for 13.95 in Chinook, Mt and the wheel nut for 13.95 in wolf point, Mt. Almost 30 bucks for a stud and a lugnut. They sold there parts at dealer list and wouldnt even budge.

No parts store could even help me cause I have hub centric wheels. Makes everything cost more.

Boy next time to the junk yard Im getting me some spares. Remember that when you go to work on any diesel truck that the prices are right at double what 1/2 ton stuff costs. These trucks are heavy duty and you are gonna pay when they need repairs.

Your doin good, Zoc, just take your time. One will pop up that works for ya.

Carey


----------



## letscamp

ZoccNY said:


> Thanks for the input and thoughts!
> 
> So, maybe I shouldn't be thinking diesel??? This will be my daily driver, as well as our long-tripper and tow vehicle. The reason I'm wanting a diesel is when we upgrade from the 23KRS to a larger rv, I don't want to be limited by my TV. But I'm a year away from an upgrade. Plus, I've always been a lease guy, since I get bored with vehicles after 2 years. This is going to be a long-term vehicle purchase so I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing here. Here's a couple that I'm looking at... with the little info I have, what's your thoughts???
> 
> '05 GMC 3500 Dually 42K miles, fully loaded, leather, DVD, etc... $34,000 (I thought they're asking too much)
> 
> '06 GMC 2500 Crew 40K miles, leather, moon roof, etc... $32,000
> 
> '07 Chevy 2500 Crew 50K miles, long box, LT1... $32,000
> 
> (side note: Can you tow a 5th wheel with a short box???)


I would check with www.consumerreports.org/ Their reviews have never let me down. My 02 f.150 has 106000k miles changed the break pads once and one new battery. Only reason I bought that year is because of their reviews. Good luck. And don't forget to take whatever you are looking at on the freeway or where ever you can get up to speed for a while when you test drive it.


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## rsm7

If I could piggyback some more on zoccNY's thread I have some questions.

Dodge Ram: The quad cab seems very small. How is it for adults in the back seat? The Mega Cab is alot harder to find and seems to bring a hefty premium. Is it worth the extra money? When did Dodge introduce the 6 speed auto?

Ford F250: Between the 6.0 and the 6.4 which has been the better motor and which gets the best fuel economy?

What are your thoughts on a short bed vs a long bed?

What are your thoughts on a 2500 vs a 3500 in empty ride quality, or lack thereof LOL? If someday I end up wanting a 5ver how limited would I be with a 2500? (what size trailer)

Lots of experience here! Thanks guys!


----------



## ZoccNY

Jim-

Here's a pic of me in action...










Turn 7, Beaverun.

Yeah, been with NESBA for a few years. Got the 23KRS to facilitate bringing wife and baby boy to the track instead of tenting it! Our Outback got quite a workout in its maiden season! NJ Motorports Park, Beaverun, Carolina Motorsports Park, Summit, and we went to NC, MD, VA, NY on various camping trips. I installed 2 PitBull trailer restraint systems in the cargo area for a 2 bike setup. Its snug, but they fit! But then the 4500-watt generator has to go in the bed of the Chevy. I don't know if you've tried to lift a 4500 watter into the back of a pickup, but it ain't easy!

Is it camping/track season yet?!?!


----------



## Joonbee

ZoccNY said:


> Jim-
> 
> Here's a pic of me in action...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turn 7, Beaverun.
> 
> Yeah, been with NESBA for a few years. Got the 23KRS to facilitate bringing wife and baby boy to the track instead of tenting it! Our Outback got quite a workout in its maiden season! NJ Motorports Park, Beaverun, Carolina Motorsports Park, Summit, and we went to NC, MD, VA, NY on various camping trips. I installed 2 PitBull trailer restraint systems in the cargo area for a 2 bike setup. Its snug, but they fit! But then the 4500-watt generator has to go in the bed of the Chevy. I don't know if you've tried to lift a 4500 watter into the back of a pickup, but it ain't easy!
> 
> Is it camping/track season yet?!?!


Awesome. I miss it. I did Beaver Run about 4 or 5 years ago on my ZX9R. Love carrying the front wheel down th e hill to the start finish line shifting from 5th to 6th. Gotta go dig up some pics.


----------



## Nathan

rsm7 said:


> If I could piggyback some more on zoccNY's thread I have some questions.
> 
> Dodge Ram: The quad cab seems very small. How is it for adults in the back seat? The Mega Cab is alot harder to find and seems to bring a hefty premium. Is it worth the extra money? When did Dodge introduce the 6 speed auto?
> 
> Ford F250: Between the 6.0 and the 6.4 which has been the better motor and which gets the best fuel economy?
> 
> What are your thoughts on a short bed vs a long bed?
> 
> What are your thoughts on a 2500 vs a 3500 in empty ride quality, or lack thereof LOL? If someday I end up wanting a 5ver how limited would I be with a 2500? (what size trailer)
> 
> Lots of experience here! Thanks guys!


I'll answer some Super Duty questions....

I'd call the late 6.0L's and 6.4L's about equal in quality. They don't have any major issues compared to the early 6.0L's. The 6.4L is quieter and less smokey, but you pay for that in Fuel economy.

As for 250 vs 350, I believe the only difference in springs is the added helper spring in the rear. My truck doesn't settle on that until I drop the 5'er on demonstrating that 1. there shouldn't be a big ride difference, and 2. it's good I have it with my 5'er. You figure with a 3/4 ton you're going to want to keep your pin weight below 2000 lbs. That means a fully loaded 5'er that is probably in the 8000-1000 lb range. Mine is 10500lbs empty with an empty pin weight north of 2000lbs. So, translation.... you can tow a "lightweight" mid profile 5'er with a 3/4 ton. If you are thinking any of the following, I'd spring for the 1 ton:
Built in Generator (they are in the front typically)
Full profile 5'er
Anything 35'+
Toyhaulers
Non "lightweight" rigs
etc.

Of course these are all generalizations, and my opinion only. Check weights and do your own calculations first.

Now, when I had the SD and the outback, the first hitch setup I had was with the springs just off the helpers. That setup was bad because every bump, the truck would hit those added stiffness springs and you felt and heard it. It actually rode better carrying more weight to get the springs working better.

If you want to improve the ride of the trucks, put 1000-1500 lbs in the bed. It will ride very nicely then....


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## TwoElkhounds

rsm7 said:


> Dodge Ram: The quad cab seems very small. How is it for adults in the back seat? The Mega Cab is alot harder to find and seems to bring a hefty premium. Is it worth the extra money? When did Dodge introduce the 6 speed auto?


I guess I am happy to hear that a MegaCab brings a hefty premium!!! Are they worth it? I think they are, especially as the kids get older. They are also worth it if you plan on bringing any adults with you in the future. Last year we went to Yellowstone and my parents came with us. My mom and dad were fighting over who got the back seat! Forget calling "shotgun"!! Mom and Dad were calling out "Backseat" or "Greatroom", or "SleepingRoom"!! It was pretty hilarious. I have also brought some of my friends with me on trips. They have told me I have the "ultimate road trip vehicle". Not sure what the premium is as I am not in the market, but I would pay more to get a Megacab. Worth at least an extra $1k.

DAN


----------



## MJRey

rsm7 said:


> If I could piggyback some more on zoccNY's thread I have some questions.
> 
> Dodge Ram: The quad cab seems very small. How is it for adults in the back seat? The Mega Cab is alot harder to find and seems to bring a hefty premium. Is it worth the extra money? When did Dodge introduce the 6 speed auto?
> 
> Ford F250: Between the 6.0 and the 6.4 which has been the better motor and which gets the best fuel economy?
> 
> What are your thoughts on a short bed vs a long bed?
> 
> What are your thoughts on a 2500 vs a 3500 in empty ride quality, or lack thereof LOL? If someday I end up wanting a 5ver how limited would I be with a 2500? (what size trailer)
> 
> Lots of experience here! Thanks guys!


The Quad cab is small but adequate for kids. It's probably not good for adults for anything other than short trips. The MegaCab is very nice and you won't find anything with more passenger room. It was worth the extra money for me with 3 growing kids and I don't need a longbed. The 6 speed auto was introduced along with the 6.7L engine in the 07 model year. They are typically referred to as 07.5 models. The 6 speed auto and integrated exhaust brake are excellent.

With the Ford the 6.4 is definitely the better engine, it's really the 6.0 with the main problems fixed. Unfortunately the mileage is less than the older engine due the emissions equipment that was added to all of the 07 diesels.

Short or Long Bed? No easy answer here as everyones situation is different. If there's any chance you'll get a 5th wheel then a long bed would make it easier but there are many hitch options that work week with short bed trucks now.

2500 vs 3500? If you can you might as well get the 3500/1-ton. There won't be much if any difference is ride and you'll have the extra capacity if you need it. I wanted to get the 3500 but I just couldn't find one with the options I wanted. I figure I can always and the additional springs or air bags if I need to. My truck is a bit harsh when empty but I still like driving it. With the trailer in tow and loaded for camping it rides very well.


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## ZoccNY

So, do I understand this right?...

The biggest difference (simplified) between a 2500 and 3500 is the suspension or springs in the rear which allows for a higher payload capacity? And the the "lack" of suspension on a 2500 can be upgraded to make up for the factory settings???

Or am I oversimplifying this???


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## GarethsDad

ZoccNY said:


> So, do I understand this right?...
> 
> The biggest difference (simplified) between a 2500 and 3500 is the suspension or springs in the rear which allows for a higher payload capacity? And the the "lack" of suspension on a 2500 can be upgraded to make up for the factory settings???
> 
> Or am I oversimplifying this???


In short Yes. You can add stiffer springs to make it like a 1 ton, But you could get in trouble by the DOT for exceeding your trucks rating sticker by the drivers door. James


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## rsm7

Well I've been scouring message boards and I've learned alot about the pro's and con's of all three. I guess I feel most at home discussing it here with fellow Outbackers. I think I would lean toward the 1 ton just because I would hate to be limited...again. I think I want a long bed but I think I might get tired of trying to park the dang thing. Of course I still have to drive them all so my feelings could change again. The Ford is my favorite but I cant trust their motors and even if I could they get the worst fuel mileage. I like the Dodge 3500 Mega Cab. I believe the quad cab is too small for me, my son in law is 6'3" then I have a 90 lb dog, nieces, nephews (grandchild on the way) so you never know who or what might be back there! The Chev/GMC is still a strong consideration and seems a no brainer with more strengths then weaknesses. The weaknesses it does have wont be exposed by my uses and relatively small TT. But the GM 1 ton only comes in a long bed. If I got a Dodge it would probably be because of the 5.9 and its simple bullet proof design and the Mega Cab. Otherwise I think it'll be a GM. If I was a heavy commercial user and big mileage, like say Carey, I would get a Dodge. I suppose when shopping used it can come down to what you find a good deal on and you have to be a little more open minded. I'm really struggling with the money aspect. Basically for me to trade my perfect 28k mile GMC it would cost around 10-15k cash plus my truck. Thats a hard pill to swallow! Just to tow a few trips a year. Most of my camping is close to home except for maybe one big trip a year. I currently average 17.5 mpg for all miles. I drive 22 miles one way to work, mostly freeway. Even if the diesel got the same, the fuel is .20-.40 cents higher. How much is an oil change on these things. How often and how much is a fuel filter. Is there any other diesel related maintenance to consider? Is there any other savings I havent realized with a diesel? Sorry to hijack your thread Z but its all related to your question I guess.


----------



## Joonbee

Ok 2500 vs 3500. These are numbers for the Chevy LMM diesel. 2007.5-2009 Single rear wheel, crew cab, standard bed 2500 and longbed 3500.

2500/3500

GVWR 9200/9900 Gain 700lb GV, minus heavier suspension parts, I think the actual payload gain is 300-500lbs, for some reason 350 sticks in my head like I read it somewhere sometime, but I can't be sure.

Max Trailering:

Bumper tow 13,000/13,000 exact same, no gain
5th wheel 13,600/14,600 gain 1000

Couldn't find max GCWR but I know that mine is 22,000lbs. Of course these are chevy numbers, but I think you will find that it is pretty much the same with all makes. Very little diff.

IN MY OPINION. There is not enough difference with single rear wheel to matter, dually is where it changes. Don't drive yourselves crazy on the computer crunching numbers trying to determine what you think you might need or think may fit best. They are all so close. GET OUT AND DRIVE THEM. The one with the best (very minimal difference) numbers may have the most ugliest dash you have ever seen and the one that you fall in love with has 2.3" less rear seat room and carry 147lbs less, get 1.8mpg worse and you found it for a better price. SOOOOO are you gonna buy the truck you like for less or the truck that has the ever so slightly "better" numbers?

Go kick some tires and shop $$$. See which won you just plain like and then you can compare realistically. For example you love the Megacab, but hate everything else about it and really love the overall Ford package and ride. Is the big back seat a deal breaker for ya? You won't know until you go sit in them and drive them around. Then you can say, it's really close between the ??? and ???, know who has the best deal.

Ours is my wifes grocery getter and our tow vehicle. Shortbed is easier as a daily driver and the slide hitches are great for the VERY FEW times you will find you need it. I really like the looks of the Ford from the factory inside and out. The Megacab is really cool and they tend to have the slightly better numbers for MPG. Bang for the buck when shopping, I got the Chevy cheap enough to add the things I wanted to make it comperable to the Ford looks and some goodies to help my mpg. So I wound up with a somewhat customized Chevy for the same price as the BEST DEAL I could find on the bone stock Dodge or Ford. But it took some serious tire kicking and of course "Honey, what do you think", before pulling the trigger.

For those of you that have met my wife, you know she is awesome when it comes to drivin trucks, camping, outdoor activities and letting daddy have a few toys. But if she really likes the cup holder in the ??? then I am not gonna sell her the ??? because it gets 1.8mpg more or can carry 147lbs more stuff, "per the Manufactures spec". Your gonna have a truck with less capabilities than you will probably ever notice with some cool cupholders, because every time she sees that the fuel mileage dropped you will get reminded she doesn't have a place to put her cup.









My rambling .02

Jim


----------



## Camping Fan

Joonbee said:


> Ok 2500 vs 3500. These are numbers for the Chevy LMM diesel. 2007.5-2009 Single rear wheel, crew cab, standard bed 2500 and longbed 3500.
> 
> 2500/3500
> 
> GVWR 9200/9900 Gain 700lb GV, minus heavier suspension parts, I think the actual payload gain is 300-500lbs, for some reason 350 sticks in my head like I read it somewhere sometime, but I can't be sure.
> 
> Max Trailering:
> 
> Bumper tow 13,000/13,000 exact same, no gain
> 5th wheel 13,600/14,600 gain 1000
> 
> Couldn't find max GCWR but I know that mine is 22,000lbs. Of course these are chevy numbers, but I think you will find that it is pretty much the same with all makes. Very little diff.
> 
> IN MY OPINION. There is not enough difference with single rear wheel to matter, dually is where it changes.
> 
> Jim


That is exactly what I found when researching and looking at specs. last fall. I did think about getting a 3500 instead of a 2500, mainly in case I ever get a 5'er in the future. But in looking at the specs. I found that at least for GMC/Chevy trucks, there really isn't any significant difference in capacity between the 2500 and 3500 unless you get a rear dually 3500. Since I really didn't want a dually right now, that made it easy for me to decide on the 2500.

In addition to the numbers listed above, per the chart in the LMM diesel supplement manual with my new 2500 HD DA, the GCWR ratings are:
2500 single rear wheel, crew cab, standard box - 22,000
3500 single rear wheel, crew cab, long box - 22,000
3500 dual rear wheel, crew cab, long box - 23,500

Something I noticed looking at all the tow rating numbers in the diesel supplement - the max. trailer wt. rating varies depending on the truck configuration, for example a 2500 regular cab long bed 2WD truck is rated for 15,800 max. trailer wt. and 2500 crew cab long bed 2WD is rated for 14,500 max. trailer wt. OK, that makes sense since a crew cab will have a heavier curb weight than a regular cab, which will then decrease tow capacity. BUT all the configurations for both 2500 and 3500 Chevy pickups have a foot note that max. trailer wt. using a weight distribution hitch is 13,000 lbs. Am I correct in assuming that's because a weight distribution system could throw too much weight forward onto the front axle and thus go over the front axle rating, where a trailer without weight distribution (like a flat deck transport trailer) will not?


----------



## TwoElkhounds

rsm7 said:


> I think I want a long bed but I think I might get tired of trying to park the dang thing.


You just need to accept the fact that you will need to park at the back of the lot and walk in. It is just easier that way. I look for a block of four spots and just center the truck in the middle. I did try to parallel park the Megacab once, but we won't talk about that!

Have you considered getting a small "junker" to drive around town? I do not drive my truck for my everyday commute. In the winter, I park and cover the truck, mostly because they use a great deal of salt on the roads here in Upstate NY and I do not want the truck to be plastered in corrosive brine. I am hoping the truck will last me the rest of my days. I have a '97 Ford Escort I drive around for my day to day travels around town. Costs me very little to keep the Escort on the road. Yes, it is a pretty big expense to have a truck that you only use to tow with, but there are few other good solutions. On the up side, my truck is 4 years old and it looks brand new. I have about 36K miles on the truck, nearly all towing.

I feel for both you and ZoccNY, I remember agonizing over this same decision a few years back. It is not an easy decision to make. Just be patient.

DAN


----------



## Nathan

rsm7 said:


> Well I've been scouring message boards and I've learned alot about the pro's and con's of all three. I guess I feel most at home discussing it here with fellow Outbackers. I think I would lean toward the 1 ton just because I would hate to be limited...again. I think I want a long bed but I think I might get tired of trying to park the dang thing. Of course I still have to drive them all so my feelings could change again. The Ford is my favorite but I cant trust their motors and even if I could they get the worst fuel mileage. I like the Dodge 3500 Mega Cab. I believe the quad cab is too small for me, my son in law is 6'3" then I have a 90 lb dog, nieces, nephews (grandchild on the way) so you never know who or what might be back there! The Chev/GMC is still a strong consideration and seems a no brainer with more strengths then weaknesses. The weaknesses it does have wont be exposed by my uses and relatively small TT. But the GM 1 ton only comes in a long bed. If I got a Dodge it would probably be because of the 5.9 and its simple bullet proof design and the Mega Cab. Otherwise I think it'll be a GM. If I was a heavy commercial user and big mileage, like say Carey, I would get a Dodge. I suppose when shopping used it can come down to what you find a good deal on and you have to be a little more open minded. I'm really struggling with the money aspect. Basically for me to trade my perfect 28k mile GMC it would cost around 10-15k cash plus my truck. Thats a hard pill to swallow! Just to tow a few trips a year. Most of my camping is close to home except for maybe one big trip a year. I currently average 17.5 mpg for all miles. I drive 22 miles one way to work, mostly freeway. Even if the diesel got the same, the fuel is .20-.40 cents higher. How much is an oil change on these things. How often and how much is a fuel filter. Is there any other diesel related maintenance to consider? Is there any other savings I havent realized with a diesel? Sorry to hijack your thread Z but its all related to your question I guess.


My dealer charges me ~$90 for an oil change and ~150 (if I remember correctly) for the fuel filters. Oil is twice a year and fuel filters are an annual deal (with my driving). Defiently not cheap. If you care about fuel economy and can wait a couple months, why not wait and see the 2011 Super Duty?


----------



## rsm7

Joonbee said:


> My dealer charges me ~$90 for an oil change and ~150 (if I remember correctly) for the fuel filters. Oil is twice a year and fuel filters are an annual deal (with my driving). Defiently not cheap. If you care about fuel economy and can wait a couple months, why not wait and see the 2011 Super Duty?


Thanks Nathan. How many miles a year is that? I'm in no hurry, heck I dont even know if I want to do it at all. However my budget puts me in a used truck range. 35k max so I think the new Scorpion is out of the question. Perhaps with the new F250 they will be giving away the 2010's at a price too good to pass on. Or if I sit on the fence long enough maybe I can get a used Scorpion LOL!


----------



## GarethsDad

I use my F350 for towing and hauling. I do one oil change a year and one fuel filter. I pay about $8.88 a gallon for oil, 6 bucks for the oil filter and 10 for the fuel filter. I,m going to do the transmission filter and fluid change this spring. My local garage quoted me $200.00 or I could do it myself for about 85 dollers. ( My good friend has a lift in his garage) James


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## MJRey

I'll probably get some disagreement from the Chevy/GM folks but when I looked at the Chevy trucks the backseat was only marginally bigger than the Dodge QuadCab. I went for a test drive and really liked the truck but my then 7yr old son was in the back seat and several times I could feel him kicking the back of my seat and I'm not tall and had the driver seat about in the middle of it's travel range. I sat in the back when we got done with the drive and decided that as the kids got older the space would be a challenge. It was a bit frustrating because I really did like the way the truck drove. I would suggest you hop in the back and see how it works for you or take some of the people that will be sitting in the back and taking them for test drive to see what it's like. The new 2010 Dodge now has a crew cab that is bigger than the QuadCab but less than the MegaCab. I haven't looked at them but it might be suitable for you. Have fun with the shopping.


----------



## Carey

If you wind up with a 5.9 cummins. The fuel filter can be serviced with a 1 and 1/8th wrench or socket. Its a 2 min job. Very simple. Filters are 10-20 depending where you buy. The 6.7 is a bit harder because there is less room.

I believe the dealer charges around 150 to do a fuel filter change.

The quick lube shops will do it for like 50 bucks including the fuel filter for the 5.9. 6.7 fuel filters are twice the price of 5.9 filters.

The quick lubes charge like 70 bucks for an oil change. The engine takes 3 gallons.

Carey


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## gonewild

The 6.6 Duramax holds less oil than either the Ford or Cummins, and the Ford filters are quite expensive. My local truck shop quoted me $55 for my GMC, but said it would cost $120 if I had a Ford. I pay $32 for the Wix fuel filter. To determine which one would be the cheapest to maintain one would have to compare price and maintenance schedules.


----------



## Joonbee

MJRey said:


> I'll probably get some disagreement from the Chevy/GM folks but when I looked at the Chevy trucks the backseat was only marginally bigger than the Dodge QuadCab. I went for a test drive and really liked the truck but my then 7yr old son was in the back seat and several times I could feel him kicking the back of my seat and I'm not tall and had the driver seat about in the middle of it's travel range. I sat in the back when we got done with the drive and decided that as the kids got older the space would be a challenge. It was a bit frustrating because I really did like the way the truck drove. I would suggest you hop in the back and see how it works for you or take some of the people that will be sitting in the back and taking them for test drive to see what it's like. The new 2010 Dodge now has a crew cab that is bigger than the QuadCab but less than the MegaCab. I haven't looked at them but it might be suitable for you. Have fun with the shopping.


Nope. No need to disagree. The Chevy is smaller than a Mega and a little bigger than the quad. It is a non issue for us tho. It will be 6 or 7 years before our kids can start kicking us and rarely have people tall enough in there long enough to complain.

As for maintenance. Truck currently has just over 19k miles and I changed every fluid to Amsoil at 5k miles. So, I am doing Amsoil and oil analysis. Holds 10qts. Runs me about $90 for 12qts (cheaper by the case) and a 25k mile filter, as a preferred member($20 fee). 2 extra qts each time, so my 6th change will be free. I did 10k miles on this change and analysis was good for continued use and I did not use a drop, so I will go 15k this time, but I am not going anymore no matter what analysis says this time. Just don't need to and that is about a years use as well. $90 every 15k for me, so I am doing about 1 change to others 2-3 changes. Fuel filter is about $30 and I think I changed it at 12k. External spin on trans filter is $8 and will be changed every 25k miles. Will drain the trans and rears at 50k. Probably about $45 per rear and about $75 for trans fluid. Of course, this all my own labor too.

Not trying to start a discussion on Amsoil or extended mile changes, just giving MY maintenance schedules and approx. fees.

Jim


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## russlg

My .02.... I work in the Parts department of a Ford dealer that sells 75% trucks, 25% cars. When we order Pick-up trucks, we order F350's. Dealer ownerships philosophy is that the STANDARD cost difference between the 250 and the 350 is negligible and that the customer will benefit with the 1 ton at trade in time. We do special order F250's for those who insist on a 3/4 ton but in general, all you will see on our lot are 1 ton's and up..Also With the newer, ultra low sulfer diesel trucks: Be sure you use a cetane booster. Most diesel at the pump has a 35-38 cetane rating or lower and the government doesn't require diesel pumps to display cetane values like octane values are displayed on gas pumps. Ford's desired cetane rating for the 6.0 and 6.4 is 45. Cetane boost products like Fords PM22A adds 4 to 6 points to the cetane rating of your fuel and also adds lubricity to the fuel injectors and improves mileage with improved combustion.


----------



## Nathan

rsm7 said:


> ... How many miles a year is that? ....


I drive right about 15k per year. That's 5k on vacation (towing) and about 10k going to and from work. Oil changes are 10k std and 5k severe I think. The Fuel filters I think are 20k std and 15k severe? (I'm guessing on thesse mileages, but think I'm close...)

Anyway, as a result I do two oil changes per year with probably 7000 on the summer run and 8000 on the fall-winter-spring side. I changed the first fuel filter at ~16k miles. I'll do the second one this summer right before vacation after another ~15k miles.


----------



## russlg

Your mileages are correct... do you use OE filters, just curious..


----------



## Nathan

russlg said:


> Your mileages are correct... do you use OE filters, just curious..


Yes, I do my service at the dealer with OE filters, oil specs, etc.

Back when I owned a vehicle where I could catch all of the oil in the catchpan I own, I still purchased Motorcraft filters, although I did tend to use Mobil 1 oil then.


----------



## Joonbee

russlg said:


> My .02.... I work in the Parts department of a Ford dealer that sells 75% trucks, 25% cars. When we order Pick-up trucks, we order F350's. Dealer ownerships philosophy is that the STANDARD cost difference between the 250 and the 350 is negligible and that the customer will benefit with the 1 ton at trade in time. We do special order F250's for those who insist on a 3/4 ton but in general, all you will see on our lot are 1 ton's and up..Also With the newer, ultra low sulfer diesel trucks: Be sure you use a cetane booster. Most diesel at the pump has a 35-38 cetane rating or lower and the government doesn't require diesel pumps to display cetane values like octane values are displayed on gas pumps. Ford's desired cetane rating for the 6.0 and 6.4 is 45. Cetane boost products like Fords PM22A adds 4 to 6 points to the cetane rating of your fuel and also adds lubricity to the fuel injectors and improves mileage with improved combustion.


Good idea. I use Stanadyne Performance Formula at every fuel up and all year round. I get the case od pints, because I take about 65gals each time I fill both tanks. Gets me about 10k miles of driving for like $65 w/shipping. I don't see a downside for the $$$, like Russlg said, extra cetane, extra lubricity and a little help with any gelling issues. God looking at all I have listed hear I sure hope I can give this truck to my son one day









Jim


----------



## ZoccNY

Okay, so I'm getting closer to making a decision, and test drives will be the determining factor (hopefully this weekend).

So, I read about you guys using fuel additives. Is this a must? And what about sulfur content of various fuels? It sounds to me like not all diesel fuel is created equal from station to station. Anyone have a good reference website for this kind of info?

And, if I may go WAY off on a tangent here... I need to vent....

So, yesterday, we discharged my grandmother from a nursing home to a long-term care facility. Normally on Thursdays I only work 9-1, so I asked my partner to come in early so I could take care of business and get Granny moved. Well, my DM calls me at ~9:30, says the technician who was scheduled to open with my partner didn't show up, and my partner is freakin' out (he's 67 and shouldve retired by now). So, I go in to work to help him fill rxs and get in touch with my tech (who read the schedule wrong... it happens). Get them settled down and head back to the nursing home. Granny was supposed to be transported around 1130 to the new place. She's down in the clinic getting prepped for the move, so I go to move my truck by the front door so I can load her stuff from her room on the 6th floor to the truck. As I'm in the lobby waiting on the elevator... the fire alarm goes off. Not a drill, not an accidental trip of the alarm, but a real "fire" (which turned about to be melted wiring somewhere on the floor below us). Security guy says I gotta move the truck so the fire dept can get in. Ok, no problem. I move to the parking lot and wait in the lobby (because the FD won't let anyone re-enter the building). Well, after an hour or so, they clear the building and we can go back in. Well, there's a wheelchair traffic jam in the lobby of residents who are coming back from church service. So, I decide to use the stairs. (There's 90 steps from the lobby to 6th floor). I go up the stairs, and use the elevator down. 3 trips to load her stuff into the truck. So, now granny is gonna have lunch and they will transport her around 2ish due to the fire alarm. No problem. Im gonna head over to the new place and get her belongings up to her room. Well.... it appears that having your hazard flashers on for 2 hours will drain your battery, BECAUSE I WENT TO START THE TRUCK AND THE BATTERY WAS DEAD!!!! I go BACK to security guy (who's name is Bob... we've forged quite a bond by now), LAUGHING and ask him if he knows anyone who can jump start me. After about 20 minutes, Gary (the plow guy) comes to jump me, and off I go to Granny's new digs. But now, I've got no time to unpack her, because the wife's sonogram appointment is at 3, and I'm NOT gonna miss that. An hour at the doc's, and back to Granny's new place to help get her settled in. She's NOT happy with me because she thought she was going back to her old apartment. Well, a stroke and shattered pelvis does not lend to a 93 year old with dementia living on her own very well. She's crying, I'm crying, and I gotta be home by 6 so the wife can go to a planned girls night out, and I've got babysitting duty. I get home at 6 on the dot, the wife goes out, Joey is already asleep, and I'm in bed by 8....

And today... my TV blew up.


----------



## Nathan

ZoccNY said:


> Okay, so I'm getting closer to making a decision, and test drives will be the determining factor (hopefully this weekend).
> 
> So, I read about you guys using fuel additives. Is this a must? And what about sulfur content of various fuels? It sounds to me like not all diesel fuel is created equal from station to station. Anyone have a good reference website for this kind of info?
> 
> And, if I may go WAY off on a tangent here... I need to vent....
> 
> So, yesterday, we discharged my grandmother from a nursing home to a long-term care facility. Normally on Thursdays I only work 9-1, so I asked my partner to come in early so I could take care of business and get Granny moved. Well, my DM calls me at ~9:30, says the technician who was scheduled to open with my partner didn't show up, and my partner is freakin' out (he's 67 and shouldve retired by now). So, I go in to work to help him fill rxs and get in touch with my tech (who read the schedule wrong... it happens). Get them settled down and head back to the nursing home. Granny was supposed to be transported around 1130 to the new place. She's down in the clinic getting prepped for the move, so I go to move my truck by the front door so I can load her stuff from her room on the 6th floor to the truck. As I'm in the lobby waiting on the elevator... the fire alarm goes off. Not a drill, not an accidental trip of the alarm, but a real "fire" (which turned about to be melted wiring somewhere on the floor below us). Security guy says I gotta move the truck so the fire dept can get in. Ok, no problem. I move to the parking lot and wait in the lobby (because the FD won't let anyone re-enter the building). Well, after an hour or so, they clear the building and we can go back in. Well, there's a wheelchair traffic jam in the lobby of residents who are coming back from church service. So, I decide to use the stairs. (There's 90 steps from the lobby to 6th floor). I go up the stairs, and use the elevator down. 3 trips to load her stuff into the truck. So, now granny is gonna have lunch and they will transport her around 2ish due to the fire alarm. No problem. Im gonna head over to the new place and get her belongings up to her room. Well.... it appears that having your hazard flashers on for 2 hours will drain your battery, BECAUSE I WENT TO START THE TRUCK AND THE BATTERY WAS DEAD!!!! I go BACK to security guy (who's name is Bob... we've forged quite a bond by now), LAUGHING and ask him if he knows anyone who can jump start me. After about 20 minutes, Gary (the plow guy) comes to jump me, and off I go to Granny's new digs. But now, I've got no time to unpack her, because the wife's sonogram appointment is at 3, and I'm NOT gonna miss that. An hour at the doc's, and back to Granny's new place to help get her settled in. She's NOT happy with me because she thought she was going back to her old apartment. Well, a stroke and shattered pelvis does not lend to a 93 year old with dementia living on her own very well. She's crying, I'm crying, and I gotta be home by 6 so the wife can go to a planned girls night out, and I've got babysitting duty. I get home at 6 on the dot, the wife goes out, Joey is already asleep, and I'm in bed by 8....
> 
> And today... my TV blew up.


Sorry to hear of you problems...

To answer the fuel additive question, no manufacturer requires it and I've never added any. All fuel should be ULSD, and no one recommends Biodiesel (watch your warranty if you decide to run it). The 2011's will support up to B20 (for at least Ford and GM).


----------



## ZoccNY

Gotcha. So I can consider the additives as insurance or tools to help longevity then?

(Sorry for my rant.... but I feel better now!)


----------



## Nathan

ZoccNY said:


> Gotcha. So I can consider the additives as insurance or tools to help longevity then?
> 
> (Sorry for my rant.... but I feel better now!)


Fuel additives are more often advertised for improved fuel economy....

My owner's manual say I can use them if I want as long as they meet some spec (never paid attention to what it was).

I haven't had much fuel problems. I'm not real picky on fuel and have also run a couple tanks of B20 when I was on vacation and didn't have a choice. Of course I also don't push the change interval on the fuel filters either....


----------



## Carey

The guys who use fuel additives religously have far fewer pump and injector issues than the guys who dont use additives.

I use an additive in every tank.

I have found that marvel mystery oil works as good as about anything out there. Its the cheapest too. I use that often as well as lucas.

If you need a anti gel additive use something like power service or lucas is the best.

We have found that the guys who use motor oil, tranny fluid and 2 stroke oil lose injectors quicker than using a genuine additive.

I have seen gains of maybe .2-.3 buts thats about it. We use it for protection moreso than mpg's.

Who really knows. The guys with 500k and more on original injectors and pumps always use additives. So I do it cause they do.

As far as the cost its a pretty small cost in the scope of things so what the heck is what I say.

I have 300k on original injectors and pump.


----------



## CamperAndy

ZoccNY said:


> And today... my TV blew up.


Man thats a rough way to end a day.


----------



## russlg

The use of additives has become a neccesary evil for two reasons. One I posted above which is to boost cetane to improve combustion, thus improving power and mpg. The second is BECAUSE of Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel or USLD as it is commonly known. Sulfer acts as a lubricant for vehicles which use oil pressure to fire injectors like the 6.0 and 7.3 Ford Diesels. Adding the Ford PM22A Cetane Boost additive to your tank increases cetane and adds lubricty back to the fuel. The Ford 6.4 uses an electronic piezo actuated injector but still can use that added lubricity and needs that higher cetane. It is recommended that you use the product according to the label directions, no matter which brand you use. It can do more harm than good to use more than specified. The 6.4 can run on 5% Biodiesel and Nathan is correct on the 20% for the new 6.7 due out next month.


----------



## funtownrv

ZoccNY said:


> So, I'm thinking about going with a diesel for my next TV. I'm looking used, less than 5 years old, Chevy/GMC or Ford. I've never owned a diesel before, and I'm totally at a loss as to what to look/listen for as far as signs of abuse or problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, I'm feeling a bit like a sitting duck for being taken advantage of by a used car salesman (a novel thought, I know). What do I need to ask or look out for?
> 
> TIA
> 
> PJ


As I tell all opf my Outback customers, DODGE, DODGE, DODGE!!! The Cumins diesel is the number one rated tow vehicle and has a feature that will help you..If you shop for a Dodge then you can do a self diagnostic on any truck you find...the process is simple..."Hold down the trip button and turn the key to the ON position, Next look where the mileage would be...it will say C-Code=, if it says 00 00 then yop are viewing a vehicle whose onbooard computer states no current problem" You can only do this on a Dodge!!! Good Luck!!!


----------



## Carey

You can also read the hours by turning on the ignition and holding the trip button down.. Mine says 7557 hours.







lol

Carey


----------



## ZoccNY

So I thought I was close to pulling the trigger on a new 2500HD but now I'm back at looking at used again. The company I'm leasing the 1500 from now gave me a sweet deal on a lease for the 2500 at 20K miles/year, plus getting clear of current one cheap. Then a well stocked 2 yr old shows up in my inbox with all the goodies.... decisions, decisions....

I DID get to buy a new TV last weekend though.... WOOHOO!!!


----------



## Nathan

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> You can also read the hours by turning on the ignition and holding the trip button down.. Mine says 7557 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol
> 
> Carey


Hey, mine has a hour meter and a system's check too (Can't compare the check to the Dodge because I don't know what all they check). I haven't checked my hours in forever... I'm pretty sure I'm over 500 hours though Carey!!!


----------



## Carey

Nathan said:


> You can also read the hours by turning on the ignition and holding the trip button down.. Mine says 7557 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol
> 
> Carey


Hey, mine has a hour meter and a system's check too (Can't compare the check to the Dodge because I don't know what all they check). I haven't checked my hours in forever... I'm pretty sure I'm over 500 hours though Carey!!!








[/quote]

HaHa, your funny!









I guess this truck only registers to 10000 hours. Heck I will be over that before the end of the year.









My seat has a perfect impression of my butt in it.. And I dont even have memory foam! lol

I often think this truck has the ability to out do me.. Supposed to be the other way around.

This last month though its been begging for attention.

I put in a new in tank fuel pump, cause I figured it couldnt last much longer.

2 front axle wheel ujoints.

A blower motor.

New batteries.

The other day my heater core started leaking. I was in North Dakota, it was in the minus degrees. I put two bottles of bars stop leak in the radiator and it stopped leaking.

Im just outside of denver tonight, so it looks like its gonna make it home.

Now the fun part. Gotta pull out the dash, and get here fixed. I have some broken doors in the heater box too.

I am gonna finally put some brake pads on the rear.

Flush the antifreeze and install new.

New thermostat and water pump.

Im gonna look over the alternator real good. It surely cant last much longer.

I will also change oil and fuel filter.

Will drain and refill rear diff. 8 freakin quarts of mobil 1 85w140. 16 buck a quart. Ouch!

Yea I am prolly gonna sink a good 750 in her this trip home.

Next trip home, 1100 for lic plate tabs, and do the ac compressor, orfice tube and dryer.

So there goes another 17-1800..

Boy it sure would be nice if they paid us enough to do all this stuff.. lol

Oh yeah, my champion gen is running great. Last night it quit putting power out. Engine runs great. Hopefully its just a lose wire..

Man Im gonna be busy this weekend.

This truck is almost getting as demanding as a my other half.... Well, not quite yet









Carey


----------



## MJRey

Carey,

If you need it here's a good description with pictures of the removal of the 03+ Dodge Ram HVAC system.

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/3rd-generation-ram-forum-no-engine-transmission-discussions/166129-hvac-removal-pictures.html


----------



## SouthLa26RS

russlg said:


> My .02.... I work in the Parts department of a Ford dealer that sells 75% trucks, 25% cars. When we order Pick-up trucks, we order F350's. Dealer ownerships philosophy is that the STANDARD cost difference between the 250 and the 350 is negligible and that the customer will benefit with the 1 ton at trade in time. We do special order F250's for those who insist on a 3/4 ton but in general, all you will see on our lot are 1 ton's and up..Also With the newer, ultra low sulfer diesel trucks: Be sure you use a cetane booster. *Most diesel at the pump has a 35-38 cetane rating or lower* and the government doesn't require diesel pumps to display cetane values like octane values are displayed on gas pumps. Ford's desired cetane rating for the 6.0 and 6.4 is 45. Cetane boost products like Fords PM22A adds 4 to 6 points to the cetane rating of your fuel and also adds lubricity to the fuel injectors and improves mileage with improved combustion.


The refiners who produce ULSD in the U.S. are required to produce at least minimum spec cetane of 40. The road grade diesel pool cetane numbers are a little higher than your post. The cetane numbers range from 40 to 50 cetane at the pump. The average at the pump diesel cetane number is in line with 45.


----------



## Carey

Hey, oil guy? Is the additive used in ULSD at the refinery similiar to what the additive companies use for lubrication?

In your opinion, do we need to be using additives such as power sevice, lucas, howes, marvel mystery oil, 2 stroke oil, etc..

Thanks for the advice!

Carey


----------



## Carey

MJRey said:


> Carey,
> 
> If you need it here's a good description with pictures of the removal of the 03+ Dodge Ram HVAC system.
> 
> http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/3rd-generation-ram-forum-no-engine-transmission-discussions/166129-hvac-removal-pictures.html


Unfortunatly I already have experience at this. I had to replace my recirc door quite a while back.

Dodge's hvac system is pretty much garbage.

Im thinking hard about replacing all the plastic doors with the metal ones from heatertreater.com I think the price is 240 for those.

I had to back that landmark up a hill at the dealer yesterday. My clutch shuddered real bad. That was the first time this clutch had done that.

So now Im checking things good in the driveline. Hopefully my clutch is ok. After I figure that out I will decide if I should spend 100 for the plastic doors or 240 for metal. I dont use credit cards to pay for little stuff on my truck, only the big stuff. Ive well learned something else will break before the card gets paid back. I make the truck support itself. If it cant do it, I will not keep hauling rv's. I have learned as long as I dont buy luxury items, the truck can support itself. So basically if my clutch is ok, the metal doors are needed and arent a luxury. If I have to do clutch work, my metal heater doors are luxuries.

Yes stupid thinkng, lol but I have a set amount I am allowed to spend and still keep a decent amount tucked away for large repairs. Its a percentage thing.

I can tell you this is how we have to manage our repairs in trucking. This doesnt go for just me. Our rates are down 15-25% in all of shipping. One has to be anal about every penny to stay in biz.

Yes this sucks, but thats the way things are for everyone.

That trailer was pushing 14k empty. It even had an auto levaling system, just like a motorhome.

I think my clutch just might have been complaining. I may have hurt it. I may have a tight ujoint too.

Will get er all checked out this afternoon and get the dash tore apart too. Yeh! lol I will let you know if I can get the metal doors. I really would like to have them.

Carey


----------



## Carey

Yes vdub running over your GCWR can do damage to your truck. Yes you may be fine rolling down the highway, but you can hurt parts when in tough situations like backing up a steep hill.. My lil cummins and entire driveline strained hard. I had to make a curve as I backed. I wish I could have locked er in 4x4 low. If they would give us front axle lockouts like ford has then this wouldnt be a problem. Yes no brand stands out as no.1. Just having some fun here ok vdub.

But yes in ways vdub is very right. But dont let this go to your head, ok.














lol

Carey


----------



## huntr70

ZoccNY said:


> Then a well stocked 2 yr old shows up in my inbox with all the goodies.... decisions, decisions....


I know for a fact that the truck in your inbox would move that TT of yours along with a few others and not even skip a beat!!!!

Steve


----------



## Joonbee

huntr70 said:


> Then a well stocked 2 yr old shows up in my inbox with all the goodies.... decisions, decisions....


I know for a fact that the truck in your inbox would move that TT of yours along with a few others and not even skip a beat!!!!

Steve
[/quote]
Oh Steve you are too kind. Must be a dodge thing


----------



## Nathan

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Yes vdub running over your GCWR can do damage to your truck. Yes you may be fine rolling down the highway, but you can hurt parts when in tough situations like backing up a steep hill.. My lil cummins and entire driveline strained hard. I had to make a curve as I backed. I wish I could have locked er in 4x4 low. If they would give us front axle lockouts like ford has then this wouldnt be a problem. Yes no brand stands out as no.1. Just having some fun here ok vdub.
> 
> But yes in ways vdub is very right. But dont let this go to your head, ok.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol
> 
> Carey


Hey Carey, you of all people should see that everything causes wear on the truck. The heavier you are the quicker it wears!









Hey it's interesting to hear that someone would use the locking hubs on the front of the SD's. Mine have sat in Auto for their whole life. I was sortof wondering if anyone actually used them....


----------



## Carey

Nathan said:


> Yes vdub running over your GCWR can do damage to your truck. Yes you may be fine rolling down the highway, but you can hurt parts when in tough situations like backing up a steep hill.. My lil cummins and entire driveline strained hard. I had to make a curve as I backed. I wish I could have locked er in 4x4 low. If they would give us front axle lockouts like ford has then this wouldnt be a problem. Yes no brand stands out as no.1. Just having some fun here ok vdub.
> 
> But yes in ways vdub is very right. But dont let this go to your head, ok.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol
> 
> Carey


Hey Carey, you of all people should see that everything causes wear on the truck. The heavier you are the quicker it wears!









Hey it's interesting to hear that someone would use the locking hubs on the front of the SD's. Mine have sat in Auto for their whole life. I was sortof wondering if anyone actually used them....
[/quote]

Yeah I was just rubbing vdub's belly.. All in fun. I know all about weight. You should see my belly







Joke!

I got 85k on this clutch. I havent had one yet that made 100k. My last HD clutch had a T/O bearing failure that ended up wasting the pressure plate fingers. I have a stock type napa clutch now. I think it will be fine. But I injured it a bit I bet. I figure I will have to do another clutch in a few months. Ive got the price down to about 500 bucks, so no biggie. I can do one out and in, in about 4-5 hours. Simple!

The ford guys who have a manual trans all use there 4x4 low for backing. Makes backing much easier on the truck, plus things can be slowed down to where backing is easier. Even the auto guys use 4x4 low when doing tight jack type backing. They say its easier on the tranny and torque converter. Try it sometime Nathan.

I pull the front driveshaft in the summer and do the same with mine.

Being able to free up those front wheels is something all mfrs should do for us. Costs about 2k for a kit for dodge's. Just not worth it.

Carey


----------



## SouthLa26RS

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Hey, oil guy? Is the additive used in ULSD at the refinery similiar to what the additive companies use for lubrication?
> 
> Additives an individual buys are similar(key word similar)in components. But refiners do very slightly in their proprietary additive packages. In regards to the original entry around Cetane. Cetane percentages are typically met in the distillation/fractionation process. Although, if a finish tank of ULSD is tested and is off spec(low) on Cetane, then, Cetane enhancer can be added to the finish tank to make it ready for shipping.
> 
> In your opinion, do we need to be using additives such as power sevice, lucas, howes, marvel mystery oil, 2 stroke oil, etc..
> 
> Carey, the answer to this is exactly that an opinion. Additives for you guys in the colder climates for fuel gelling and such are proven needed, to prevent mechanical issues with your diesel engines. After market consumer additives for diesel fuel regarding cetane and lubrication, are they needed no, are they necessary no. Refiners are held to meet product specs for ULSD, that include enough cetane and lubrication for todays diesel powered vehicles. Now, if a person in their own opinion, for peace of mind or other reason says, 'hey I think extra cetane and lubrication is needed for my diesel engine,' is this wrong? Absolutely not wrong, go for it. Does the diesel fuel aftermarket additive(cetane,lubrication) hurt the engine? My opinion no.
> A comparable opinion laden topic, dino oil vs. synthetic
> 
> Thanks for the advice!
> 
> Carey


----------



## Nathan

SouthLa26RS said:


> ...
> Carey, the answer to this is exactly that an opinion. Additives for you guys in the colder climates for fuel gelling and such are proven needed, to prevent mechanical issues with your diesel engines. After market consumer additives for diesel fuel regarding cetane and lubrication, are they needed no, are they necessary no. Refiners are held to meet product specs for ULSD, that include enough cetane and lubrication for todays diesel powered vehicles. Now, if a person in their own opinion, for peace of mind or other reason says, 'hey I think extra cetane and lubrication is needed for my diesel engine,' is this wrong? Absolutely not wrong, go for it. Does the diesel fuel aftermarket additive(cetane,lubrication) hurt the engine? My opinion no.
> A comparable opinion laden topic, dino oil vs. synthetic


You will find that the engine manufacturers are in agreement with the oil guys here.


----------



## mena661

ZoccNY said:


> So I thought I was close to pulling the trigger on a new 2500HD but now I'm back at looking at used again. The company I'm leasing the 1500 from now gave me a sweet deal on a lease for the 2500 at 20K miles/year, plus getting clear of current one cheap. Then a well stocked 2 yr old shows up in my inbox with all the goodies.... decisions, decisions....
> 
> I DID get to buy a new TV last weekend though.... WOOHOO!!!


As light as your trailer is, I think I would consider a V10 Ford or 8.1L Chevy (sort of rare) BUT if you plan on upgrading your trailer in the next few years then a 1 ton diesel might be the best bet.


----------



## Cheyenne

ZoccNY said:


> Okay, so I'm getting closer to making a decision, and test drives will be the determining factor (hopefully this weekend).


I'm also from the Syracuse area - small Outbacker's world. My wife & I picked up a 2007 Dodge 2500 megacab 6.7L diesel used on a private sale. Man what a tow vehicle. We pull an Outback 31RQS and even in decent crosswinds it tows like it's on rails. I don't even notice when Semis pass by. I have a Reese dual cam hitch. The engine has copious power even when we load the trailer up and drive with a bed full of firewood and a full water tank (we camp a lot where there are no hookups or even water available). I have NO trouble accelerating to pass while towing uphill pulling ~9000 lbs







. The built in engine brake is extremely handy. My brake wear is minimal even while towing, and there's nothing better when descending a long steep grade than engaging the engine brake and knowing I'm not heating my rotors up red hot like the guy in front of me. Plus it sounds really cool :







:!! By the way - the back seat area in the megacab is like a limo - you could fit a basketball team back there - or three big boys, a dog, and all their stuff. We camp with friends that pull a 25RSS with a gasser. I get ~14MPG towing, he gets ~10 towing 1/2 the weight, so diesels do seems to have an advantage towing.

A few things I've noticed out here in snowbelt land. I drive my truck all year and it stays outside (garage 1ft too short







). I think all these diesels come with a factory block heater - if not make sure yours does. When the night temps get in the teens or lower - you'll really want to plug the truck in for 30 minutes before you leave. It's just kinder to the engine and you'll have heat to defrost your windshield much sooner. My 6.7L block takes a while to warm in the winter - so the heated seats are appreciated. My mileage goes down a bit in the winter - due to more frequent DPF regenerations I think. Try not to idle diesels with a DPF too much (I'm talking about letting the truck sit for long periods with the engine idling). You'll find diesels with a DPF and a lot of EGR tend to dirty up the engine oil faster. I try to take it easy on the truck in the winter till the engine temp starts to show on the gauge - I don't want to spool up my turbo with 20w50 diesel engine oil at 5 degrees. I drive ~18 miles each way to work - mostly highway. When driving around town I keep it out of 6th gear to keep the thing out of overdrive while going 35MPH - engine pulls fine at 1000rpms - but I've heard it keeps things cleaner if you don't lug the engine like that.

As far as my truck? I had one problem with it covered under warranty. The early 2007's really needed an engine controller update to manage the emission controls better. My truck didn't have the update - and after I bought it my local dealer apparently failed to register me as the new owner like I asked - so I didn't get any notices requesting I get it updated. Well at about 30K the DPF clogged, and I had to bring it in. They replaced the DPF (rather than clean it) for free and updated the controller. No problems since. I think my warranty is done this summer, and if I have any problems I'll just delete the offending parts like all the other Ford, Chevy, and Dodge guys are doing these days







, but if you get enough highway time you'll be fine....

Hope you find a good truck for yourself!


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## ZoccNY

So, my search still continutes. Ive driven a few trucks and have gone back and forth and back again.... new? used? diesel? gas? The 3500 dually is just too big. I drove 2 of them, and highway is great, but around town, its just too much. I did find a good possibility...

http://www.breseechevrolet.com/VehicleDetails/529251003

Gonna take a look at it today. Maybe the search is coming to an end...









On an unrelated note... Monday, March 29th at 11:06pm, my wife gave birth to our beautiful baby girl! Alyssa Antoinette, 7#5oz. Everyone is doing well!


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## Nathan

Congrats on the new addition to the family!!!!









Good luck on the continuing search.


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## Joonbee

Dude that is awesome. Congrats on the little girl.

and good luck with the truck.

Jim


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## TexanThompsons

Congrats on the new arrival! Love the name. Hopefully there will be another new arrival for you soon!


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## ZoccNY

Thanks guys! Little girl has daddy wrapped around her finger already!

And looks like I'm gonna be a Ford owner. First used vehicle I've ever bought. A little nervous but I think I've done my research, with the help of all you good people! Plus, I think I'll look WAY cooler driving a big bad black diesel!

Any mod suggestions????


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## CamperAndy

Is it bone stock right now?


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## Joonbee

ZoccNY said:


> Thanks guys! Little girl has daddy wrapped around her finger already!
> 
> And looks like I'm gonna be a Ford owner. First used vehicle I've ever bought. A little nervous but I think I've done my research, with the help of all you good people! Plus, I think I'll look WAY cooler driving a big bad black diesel!
> 
> Any mod suggestions????


Nothing more than a catback exhaust and cold air intake until you hit 100k miles and the warranty is done or you may lose it depending on the dealer.

In the meantime. Head on over to www.powerstroke.org and have fun researching.

Jim


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## clarkely

congrats on both of the Additions to your family!!!

You know Mom and your Daughter will also feel way cooler in a big bad black truck


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## ZoccNY

CamperAndy said:


> Is it bone stock right now?


Yup


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## GarethsDad

ZoccNY said:


> Is it bone stock right now?


Yup
[/quote]
What year? What cab? How big is the bed? James


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## ZoccNY

GarethsDad said:


> Is it bone stock right now?


Yup
[/quote]
What year? What cab? How big is the bed? James
[/quote]

08 Crew Cab 6.4L 6ft bed... I posted a link to the sale ad above.


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## ZoccNY

Joonbee said:


> Thanks guys! Little girl has daddy wrapped around her finger already!
> 
> And looks like I'm gonna be a Ford owner. First used vehicle I've ever bought. A little nervous but I think I've done my research, with the help of all you good people! Plus, I think I'll look WAY cooler driving a big bad black diesel!
> 
> Any mod suggestions????


Nothing more than a catback exhaust and cold air intake until you hit 100k miles and the warranty is done or you may lose it depending on the dealer.

In the meantime. Head on over to www.powerstroke.org and have fun researching.

Jim
[/quote]

Good God, it's like they're speaking a foreign language. I've got ALOT of learnin' to do....


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## Joonbee

ZoccNY said:


> Thanks guys! Little girl has daddy wrapped around her finger already!
> 
> And looks like I'm gonna be a Ford owner. First used vehicle I've ever bought. A little nervous but I think I've done my research, with the help of all you good people! Plus, I think I'll look WAY cooler driving a big bad black diesel!
> 
> Any mod suggestions????


Nothing more than a catback exhaust and cold air intake until you hit 100k miles and the warranty is done or you may lose it depending on the dealer.

In the meantime. Head on over to www.powerstroke.org and have fun researching.

Jim
[/quote]

Good God, it's like they're speaking a foreign language. I've got ALOT of learnin' to do....
[/quote]

God times ahead.


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## ZoccNY

QUESTION: The Ford has an OEM brake controller. Good enough or should I pull the one out of my Chevy???


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## Joonbee

ZoccNY said:


> QUESTION: The Ford has an OEM brake controller. Good enough or should I pull the one out of my Chevy???


I believe they are good controllers. Take yours out anyway, especially if it is higher end one and wait till you tow with it a couple times. If you like it then sell yours and buy that little girl something.

Jim


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## Nathan

You're going to love the OEM brake controller. It's better than any aftermarket model I have found. Set the level and it will work seamlessly. It also has nice features like paying attention to the ABS status, etc to help ensure the trailer stays behind you.









Oh, and your bed is 6.75' long.


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## rsm7

Good luck ZOCC I'm sure you'll love it. As long were talking about 6.4 PSD's I have a question. How well do they start in cold temps? I work nights and mine would sit outside for 9-14 hrs. I drive a semi all night so I would not be around to start it or keep it warm. Is it gonna start in the morning after sitting all night in 0 degree weather? The rebates on new ones are insane and I'm getting close to pulling the trigger. They're blowing them out now that the new 6.7 PSD is here.


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## Nathan

rsm7 said:


> Good luck ZOCC I'm sure you'll love it. As long were talking about 6.4 PSD's I have a question. How well do they start in cold temps? I work nights and mine would sit outside for 9-14 hrs. I drive a semi all night so I would not be around to start it or keep it warm. Is it gonna start in the morning after sitting all night in 0 degree weather? The rebates on new ones are insane and I'm getting close to pulling the trigger. They're blowing them out now that the new 6.7 PSD is here.


They will start in cold weather. Obviously they like to be plugged in at Zero, but I've heard of new ones starting at well below zero levels. If it's too cold, they make you wait and let them idle for something like 30 secs before you can drive them (The dash will tell you if you need to wait).

I would recommend the supplemental cab heater however since it will allow for much quicker defoging of the windows.


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## ZoccNY

It is home. Pictures and (more) questions to follow....


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## garywies

Nathan said:


> I hear you on mileage on leases. It doesn't make any sense if you are going to run over on miles, especially on the trucks. At least for Ford, the overage amount is based on MSRP on the truck. As mine was over 50K sticker, the additional mileage cost makes you never want to go over it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now on the Gas vs. Diesel question, you might want to consider your options. Sure Diesel has loads of torque and gets better fuel economy. However, it's also a $9,000 option on today's trucks. I bet you could get a used F250 V10 for a pretty good price and as several members here will tell you, they pull great for a gas engine.


You know, I would check the language of your lease, I'll bet you can sell or trade your leased truck before the end of the lease (rather than turning it in) and the milage hit will just be taken with the appraisal of the truck in general. In other words, if you bring your truck in at the end of your lease in perfect condition with high miles you pay per mile for the "overage" as stated in the contract BUT if you trade the truck in (anywhere) and it is perfect condition (apples to apples) there will be a blue book "hit" for excessive miles that may not be as great or none at all in a sellers market. My $.02 after years in the business.


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## ZoccNY

Well, as promised, he she is!




























Towed the 23KRS home from dealership yesterday. WOW! Talk about a big difference in feel from the 1500! Headed to the track this weekend. First weekend of the season for the OB, the GIXXER, the new TV... GIDDYUP!!


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## clarkely

ZoccNY said:


> Well, as promised, he she is!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Towed the 23KRS home from dealership yesterday. WOW! Talk about a big difference in feel from the 1500! Headed to the track this weekend. First weekend of the season for the OB, the GIXXER, the new TV... GIDDYUP!!


Giddiup YeeHaw

LOOKS SWEET!!!!


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## Nathan

Looks great!!!









Won't fit in the driveway eh?


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## rdvholtwood

Nice!! Best of luck!!


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## rdvholtwood

ZoccNY said:


> So, my search still continutes. Ive driven a few trucks and have gone back and forth and back again.... new? used? diesel? gas? The 3500 dually is just too big. I drove 2 of them, and highway is great, but around town, its just too much. I did find a good possibility...
> 
> http://www.breseeche...tails/529251003
> 
> Gonna take a look at it today. Maybe the search is coming to an end...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On an unrelated note... Monday, March 29th at 11:06pm, my wife gave birth to our beautiful baby girl! Alyssa Antoinette, 7#5oz. Everyone is doing well!


.......and Congrats to being a new father!!!


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## luverofpeanuts

Congrats on both new additons ;-)

That truck looks like a beaut. I went through my first Minnesota winter with my '06 and never had an issue starting, and it sat outside the whole winter (regrettably...the garage was cluttered).	I generally plugged it in when below 20 F...but I forgot several times when it was in single digits or in the low teens. Never even a hint of a problem starting. I would expect the 6.4 Powerstrokes to be as good.


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## Joonbee

Looks awesome man. Glad that you are happy with your decision. Nothing like that torque for towing. Kinda like a nice twin on the track, say an RC51







Ok so I do miss mine

Good luck with all the new additions, Jim


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