# 23rs Tow Vehicle Info Needed



## mikemcc (Aug 7, 2005)

Hello,

This is my first post to this forum as I am considering the purchase of a 23RS. First off I have to say, WOW!! What a nice travel trailer!! My wife and I have been looking over the past 3 months at travel trailers in our area (Huntsville, AL) and were highly impressed today with the Outback line. I love the idea of an expandable trailer, but had been focusing on canvas type expandables. We visited a local dealer and toured their showroom. The salesman didn't have to sell the trailer it sold itself (haven't actually purchased it yet, thinking about it over the weekend). I was needing advice that any current owners might have in regards to towing a 23RS with a 2005 GMC Envoy XL equipped with a Vortec inline 6-cylinder (275 hp @ 6000 RPM, 275 lb.-ft @ 3600 RPM) and 3.42 axle ratio. My vehicle owner's manual spec's out a max trailer towing capacity of 5000 lb with this engine/axle setup. Maximum trailer ratings are calculated assuming standard equipped vehicle, driver, and required trailering equipment (hitch, chains, etc). This doesn't account for passengers or cargo, as this weight would have to be deducted from the max trailer towing capacity. I understand the 21RS has a slightly lower weight 5500 lb. (including trailer, cargo, options, water). I have no need for the two bunk beds. My wife's parents would be the only quests that would most likely ever travel with us, and I just can't see either of them climbing into the upper bunk. I have crunched the numbers for the 23RS and come up with a maximum weight of 6000 lb (including trailer, cargo, options, water). Either of these trailers actually exceed the recommended max trailer/towing capacity by 500 lb to 1000 lb. I DO NOT want to abuse my vehicle, but I was wondering if anyone out there has attempted pulling either of these trailers with a vehicle like this (the Chevrolet Trailblazer, Buick Rainier, GMC Envoy). If you have please pass along any advice/recommendations that you might have with this vehicle/trailer combo.

Thanks In Advance,

Mike McCormick


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## Swanie (Oct 25, 2004)

I pull a 21rs with a 2004 Dodge Durango V8, 3.92 axle, w/tow package. It's adequate and that's about it. Can go 60 mph, not much more, on a flat surface. It's ok only because we camp 3-5 times per year and I don't want to drive a monster truck inbetween.

Nothing scientific. Just my thoughts. Definitely go for the 23rs though -- that was my first choice model, too, but found a "pre-used" 21rs so went with it. Good luck on your decision. Any Outback will not disappoint.


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

Welcome to the site Mike.
My advice would be Don't do it.
I tend to think that a 21RS or a 23RS either one would be like the tail wagging the dog with that truck.
The wheelbase is too short on the Envoy to pull atrailer like the Outback.
I'd love to see you in a new Outback, but please consider this carefully before jumping into something that you are not happy with.
We have more than one member(myself included) that's found themselves upgrading tow vehicles after buying the Outback.


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## mikemcc (Aug 7, 2005)

Katrina said:


> Welcome to the site Mike.
> My advice would be Don't do it.
> I tend to think that a 21RS or a 23RS either one would be like the tail wagging the dog with that truck.
> The wheelbase is too short on the Envoy to pull atrailer like the Outback.
> ...


Katrina,

The Envoy XL has a wheelbase of 129.0 inches. It is just slightly shorter in wheelbase length than my 1995 Ford F-150 extended cab with a wheelbase of 138.8 inches. Do you know of any formulas for wheelbase vs. trailer length that I should consider?


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

mikemcc said:


> Katrina said:
> 
> 
> > Welcome to the site Mike.
> ...










....forgot about the XL part. I've seen some formulas around for this, I'll see if I can find them for you.


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## Dreamtimers (Mar 7, 2005)

Hello Mikemcc

I can't speak to the envoy.







We had a v8 dodge durango, when we decided to get our 21rs. It was far enough over our towing spec that we decided to upgrade our tv. As I'm sure someone else will point out, the dry weight does not include options, (and many many things are options). Safety first!








I'm sure you will love the outback, just be sure to have everything you would like fixed, repaired, etc. before you accept delivery. Look through this sight and use the PDI lists to help point the way.







Having as much as you can correct to start with will make that first trip or two even more special.

Its great to have another Hsv. person on board. Hope you can make it to the SE rally. The people we met at the last one were wonderful.

Sorry for the short welcome hi-jack.

Dreamtimers


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Welcome,Mike! And, smart guy to ask before you buy. Towing capability is an often under appreciated and over looked issue, yet it is one of the more important issues. I have done a lot of research in the area and I still don't understand all the legal ramifications. I did, however, put togeather a collection of good articles that may help you make your decision.

Weight 101

Weight issues aside, I think your 3.42 gearing may be very disappointing.


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## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Nice page Vdub. Good treatment of an important and often discussed subject.

BBB


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

With one hand even....







Thanks!


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## wingnut (Mar 21, 2005)

Mike
First of all welcome, you'll find a lot of good info here. We own a 23RS and pull it with a F150. We LOVE it. Take it slow. It will come.


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

Wheelbase guidelines

OK, got around to digging this up for you.
Once again, I was not initially thinking about the XL part on the Envoy.
Still not sure I'd go much bigger than a 21 though.


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## wicandthing (Jul 11, 2005)

Hello and welcome.

I think you would be over your towing capacity pretty quickly. The dry weight is essentially your towing capacity. Add the accessories like A/C, propane, etc.. and you are already over your legal limit. Plus, add passengers and cargo to the TV and you are way over your limit.

The tranny on your Envoy will probably burn up and you will be greatly dissapointed with the 3.42 rear end with that engine.

Just my thoughts...


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## mikemcc (Aug 7, 2005)

vdub said:


> Welcome,Mike! And, smart guy to ask before you buy. Towing capability is an often under appreciated and over looked issue, yet it is one of the more important issues. I have done a lot of research in the area and I still don't understand all the legal ramifications. I did, however, put togeather a collection of good articles that may help you make your decision.
> 
> Weight 101
> 
> ...


vdub,

Thanks for the GREAT info!!

Mike


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## dougdogs (Jul 31, 2004)

wicandthing said:


> The tranny on your Envoy will probably burn up and you will be greatly disappointed with the 3.42 rear end with that engine.
> 
> [snapback]48223[/snapback]​


I went through a few transmissions with my 2002 trailblazer. hopefully GM got it figured out by 2005.

All my problems were from towing a 3400 pound boat, which had a little better aerodynamics than towing a trailer.

Glad you are checking it all out BEFORE you buy, Mike.


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

May I suggest pinning Vdubs hot links on TV's to the TV Forum. We get alot of newbies and lurking want to be RVers asking the same basic questions. Vdubs links gives them a starting point in TV education. I think alot of people see the Outbacks fall in







and want to buy without all the info to drive safely. Some kinda get in a hurry ,then need to get that new TV







or have serious towing problems.
I think we have a thread about it--What people drive..








Thanks Vdub for sharing .
Mike Welcome to Outbackers.com , the best reason to get an Outback is the support you get here.
Jan


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## BenjaminPT (Jan 17, 2005)

I have 2004 21RS and a 2002 EnvoyXL with the same engine and rear end ratio. I live in Colorado and it is maxxed out when I go over the mountains. The engine/tranny is going at full strength. Wish I had a different rear end ratio and the V-8 which is offered in the newer models of the EnvoyXL. I would rather have the Yukon, but my wife likes driving the EnvoyXL.
Good Luck in the lower elevations.
Benjaminpt


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