# Invoice Price As Percentage



## Conrich (Oct 6, 2004)

Just curious as to what anyone thinks the invoice price is as a percentage of the list price. I was told that the dealer usually pays about 60% of the list price to buy the trailer. Does this sound correct? So a $40,000 trailer costs the dealer about $24000. Also could you expect average retail as a trade-in for your trailer? I might want to make a deal but don't want my offer to appear stupid!!! With the economy in the state it is---can you expect a better deal than past years?

Conrich


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## Crawfish (Sep 14, 2005)

Most dealerships have a markup of anywhere from 30% to 35%.

Leon


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Yes your right in the area Conrich. It is actually closer to 50%, but after you factor in his floor payments and overhead, a dealer will never sell a unit at 50% of list. I bet youd be hard pressed even in this economy to find a dealer other than Lakeshore or Holman that will even sell at 60% of list price. 65% yes no problem there out there.

A dealer pays a minimum of 250 a month to a bank to floor the unit on his lot.. If the unit has been sitting all year, he's going to factor that in.. The big 1/4 milion dollar motorhomes cost a dealer 1000 a month to floor.. Can you imagine having 20 on your lot right now... 20000 a month going out in floor costs.. It would kill ya in no time.. Also a dealer is not able to return an rv once he has boughten it thru is bank.. This is never factored in from a consumer standpoint.

On reason Lakeshore and Holman sell so cheap is they move a unit off of there floor same month as they recieve it.

Carey

ps I deleiver RV's for a living so I actually see the exact dollar amount a dealer pays. It would surprise many.. I also know that there are incentives that further reduces there price to around the 40% range paid of msrp for high volume dealers like Lakeshore, Holman, and big dealers like camping world.

Do they make money, oh heck yea.. But they also have extreme amounts of overhead, and advertising budgets that prolly take 6-8 months out of a year to pay for.. This is why we are seeing so many dealers going bankrupt right now. They are not selling enough to pay all the costs.

RVIA has said we need to lose 500 dealers to match the current flow of RV's being sold.. I feel over this winter we all will see a great number of our hometown rv dealers go broke... Sad deal.


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## Conrich (Oct 6, 2004)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Yes your right in the area Conrich. It is actually closer to 50%, but after you factor in his floor payments and overhead, a dealer will never sell a unit at 50% of list. I bet youd be hard pressed even in this economy to find a dealer other than Lakeshore or Holman that will even sell at 60% of list price. 65% yes no problem there out there.
> 
> A dealer pays a minimum of 250 a month to a bank to floor the unit on his lot.. If the unit has been sitting all year, he's going to factor that in.. The big 1/4 milion dollar motorhomes cost a dealer 1000 a month to floor.. Can you imagine having 20 on your lot right now... 20000 a month going out in floor costs.. It would kill ya in no time.. Also a dealer is not able to return an rv once he has boughten it thru is bank.. This is never factored in from a consumer standpoint.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your info. Here's what I did. The RV that I'm interested in has a list price of $39052. Being conservative I applied a 70% of list price (rather than 60%) for a dealer cost of $27350. Since I'm assuming(?) that the dealer does better than 70% I figured that $28000 would be a good offer. The RV I'm trading in has a NADA average retail of $17500 so I would be fair and expect maybe $16000 for trade in. That means that $12000 would be a win-win for both me and the dealer ($28000-16000). Since I didn't ecpect the first offer to sail through, I offered $9000 with my RV. They rejected the offer and countered with $19000 and my RV. I'm willing to continue the negotiating to the $12000 price. Does anyone think I'll succeed? Is my logic correct and fair? What should I do if we can't get close?

Conrich


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Whos list price.. Is this the list price from the dealer, or actual list price found from the manufacturer?

If this list price is coming from the dealer, be sure and call a few in your state and ask them the list price for the model you want..

Its well known that dealers will put there own list price on a unit, knowing that most will never check on that.. Mfr's tend to not advertise msrp so the dealers can post there own msrp on the unit.. Give 30% off of there msrp, which in reality is only 15% off actual mfr msrp.

So if this msrp is coming from a dealer, get some msrp from other dealers.. That would be my next step.. Gather yourself some fire power with info..

Let us know.. Dealer games can be very fun if your patient.. Sounds like you are.

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Oh, one more thing Conrich. Find the actual build date it was manufactured on, on that RV you want. It will be on a sticker on the left side, or imprinted on the tongue, or in one of the kitchen cabinets.. Could be pretty tiny lettering. The RV was delivered to him within 2 weeks of this build date.

Then you will know exactly how long this has been on his lot.. Lets say its been there 10 months... This dealer has already paid 2500-3000 dollars in his floor plan financing charges.. He will fight and fight with you to at least get his money back..

Its sad because this hurts everyone.. You want a smoking deal on a left over model, he fights to not lose money.. The longer they set on a lot, the more it costs for everyone involved..

I bought ours in sept, 06.. It had been made in Jan, 06.. I paid right at 70% of actual msrp for the unit. The dealer kept telling me he almost gave my trailer away.. I didnt believe him.. After learning about all this from being in the biz, he was prolly pretty close to being right..

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Ok, one more thing, lol

The msrp can vary quite a bit from state to state.. Why.. Transportation costs.

In the last 12-18 months the transporting costs have pretty much doubled.. At times this last summer I was getting, 1.65 a mile for pulling trailers larger than 33 feet and getting 1.52 for 26-32 footers and 1.48 for smaller units.

My company also made 20% to on top of this, and the mfr makes another 10-15% on top of this too.. the mfr uses this 10-15% for factors such as quick rises in fuel costs and fudge room with the dealer.. They end up making some money on the transportation though becasue they rarely give us more than an extra penny or two even if the fuel went up 25-30 cents that week.. They are slow to rise and fast to fall.. Thats normal in all of transportation..

So in the end an RV that was shipped this year will have a trans cost of around 2 bucks a mile..

So find out where the model you like was made, then add 2 bucks per mile to find what the dealer paid in trans cost.. This can be tacked onto msrp if you live more than about 500 miles from the mfr.

So the msrp can be much different in California versus say at Lakeshore in Michigan.

You Far west people will have to pay a minimum of avg 4000 dollars more than someone living east, as most all RV's are made in NE Indiana.

Ok I'll quit there.. lol

Carey


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Conrich said:


> The RV I'm trading in has a NADA average retail of $17500 so I would be fair and expect maybe $16000 for trade in. Does anyone think I'll succeed? Is my logic correct and fair? What should I do if we can't get close?
> 
> Conrich


Is anyone getting anything near average retail for a trade in? I have contacted 2 dealers about trades for my 2008 32BHDS and they have told me wholesale $ is what they use for trade ($15k or so in my case). i worked the new unit price down first then discussed the trade. I guess it depends on sale price on the new unit. id be surprised if you could make up a $7-$10k difference though. I hope you do !!! but wow, thats a big difference. Good luck!!


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## Coachlight RV Sales (Oct 8, 2004)

From a dealer stand point I would like to add something. if you want to buy a unit close to the invoice price then you are going to get close to whole sale for your trade. Now if you want to sell you trade the customer can get a more retail price for the unit. I know that you think that dealers make a ton of money on a deal and some dealers try and sell very few units this is not the case as things in this country get tight.
Ken


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Coachlight RV Sales said:


> From a dealer stand point I would like to add something. if you want to buy a unit close to the invoice price then you are going to get close to whole sale for your trade. Now if you want to sell you trade the customer can get a more retail price for the unit. I know that you think that dealers make a ton of money on a deal and some dealers try and sell very few units this is not the case as things in this country get tight.
> Ken


I can understand that and it makes complete sense. Thats why I made note in my post that it depends on the sale price of the new unit. You wont get both a low purchase price and a high trade. Thats why I wont ever plan to trade unless Im just really in love with something or dont have the time to deal with it. Otherwise, Ill sell mine first.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Coachlight RV Sales said:


> From a dealer stand point I would like to add something. if you want to buy a unit close to the invoice price then you are going to get close to whole sale for your trade. Now if you want to sell you trade the customer can get a more retail price for the unit. I know that you think that dealers make a ton of money on a deal and some dealers try and sell very few units this is not the case as things in this country get tight.
> Ken


Really good points there.. As we see there are a ton of behind the scenes costs.. If dealers are making lots of money they wouldnt be going out of business right and left.

In just the last few years operating costs have went thru the roof, just like it has for our families... So the profit margins are thinner than ever.. The dealers can still make it, IF they are moving units in mass.. Well thats not the case for many..

Many banks are recalling there floor financing from many dealers and this is leaving the dealers stuck trying to find another bank to get there floor financed at much higher rates.. Most cant find anything that will work and just shut the doors, and try to send what they can back to the mfr's.. The mfr's have to take them back at that point.

No this doesnt mean feel sorry for them, but be aware they are going thru very lean times and will pay more attention to there profit margins in deals they make.. It used to be someone would work em hard and they'd let the customer get away with it, figuring they'd kill the bear on the next one...

Well, its not like that anymore.. Every sale is as important as the next when it comes to profits.. So finding good deals are gonna be much harder for the consumer..

Next problem is for the ones going bankrupt they are auctioning them off.. This is creating a fire sale mentality in the business... So people are thinking they can push the dealer harder for a deal more than ever because he is hungry.. But that hunger only goes so far.. Many local RV owners have had a good life, and still have money in the bank.. If they see there dealership losing money every month, they will just shut the doors, to protect there money, houses and families.. If you think about it, you or I would do the same.. Why let your dealership take everything you have worked for.. Just shut the doors now and protect what you have done for yourself in life. Makes since. Open another when the market comes back..

Its becoming a big viscious cycle right now and knowone can win or come out feeling like they made the right deal.. Its a tough time to be doing business for everyone.

Carey


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## Conrich (Oct 6, 2004)

Does anyone know when the 2010 model year starts or when the 2009 models are 'last years inventory'?

Conrich


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Conrich said:


> Does anyone know when the 2010 model year starts or when the 2009 models are 'last years inventory'?
> 
> Conrich


The 2010 model line starts at april/may and gets going real good after july 1st... It would prolly be hard to get one till after july 1st. Many, many dealerships have huge stocks of 2008's and arent ordering till those are gone.. Many dealerships may go from the 2008 model line directly to the 2010 model line..

July 1st is when the 2009's would be close out models.

I dont think a dealer will take an order on a 2010 till after july 1st next year.. might check on that though with your dealer.

Carey


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