# Insurance Companies Reek



## Sidewinder (Feb 25, 2005)

To all who care to listen to this RANT against insurance companies,

About two months ago, my wife was involved in a minor traffic incident in our Odyssey van. Hers how it went down. Look at the following outline.

A B C

My wife was leading, driving car A. Traffic came to an abrupt stop in front of her. She slammed on the brakes, car C, insured by Geico, rammed into car B, insured by Atlantic Casualty. Car B then bumped into car A, our Odyssey.

Now for the past two months, we have been trying to get ONE of them to pay to fix our car. The damage to our car is just slightly below the deductible, so our insurance company, Ameriprise (American Express Auto Insurance) will not take on the legal battle for us.

We have received letters from both insurance companies (of cars B and C) stating that they are refusing to pay us because they have determined that the accident was NOT their fault. How the [email protected] can this be? Is there absolutely NO integrity in the world anymore? What good does it actually do us to pay these exorbitant premiums?

We have contacted the Insurance Bureau and they want us to send detailed information as to what has happened, but admit that they probably won't be able to do anything. I have always hated all the ambulance chasing attorneys, but I am starting to realize why they exist. The insurance companies would never pay a thing if they were not FORCED to.

The next step for me is to turn this over to 12 On Your Side, a consumer watchdog group sponsored by an NBC affiliate station in Richmond. Maybe they can shake some Geico money loose!

Might there be any insurance gurus out there that can give me some suggestions? I just refuse to pay for the damage. At this point, I don't care if it costs me three times the cost of the repair to make one of these companies pay for it!

I am planning to switch my insurance away from Ameriprise due to the most lack-luster customer service I have ever had the displeasure of experiencing. Who do you guys use to insure your Outbacks? Most of the Auto insurance companies don't want to insure an RV.

Thanks for listening and for any help you may be able to extend,

Sidewinder


----------



## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

Forget the insurance companies, you don't have to deal with them. Just file a small claims lawsuit against the guy who hit you. His insurance company will pay you to protect him from the judgment, that's why he has a policy. I'm e-mailing you sidebar with my phone number- I'm a [gasp] insurance lawyer. Feel free to give me a call- insurance and the law is foreign to most people, but its really not all that complicated.

Kevin P.


----------



## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Sidewinder said:


> I am planning to switch my insurance away from Ameriprise due to the most lack-luster customer service I have ever had the displeasure of experiencing. Who do you guys use to insure your Outbacks? Most of the Auto insurance companies don't want to insure an RV.
> 
> Thanks for listening and for any help you may be able to extend,
> 
> ...


 I have our OB insured with State Farm. They were more than willing to insure it. I do, however, have all of our autos, as well as homeowners with them. I had an insurance analyst look over our policies, and he said that I really couldn't do any better anywhere else. I also have never had any kind of issues with claims.

They also informed me that they finance RV's as well as autos through the Bank side of State Farm.

Steve


----------



## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

I agree with Kevin. You shouldn't have to deal with them. You gave them an oppportunity to settle for what is probably a relatively small amount. I would think the liability lies with car B's insurance company. 
I might consider contacting the both adjusters informing of your next step, which is to hire an attorney. They might go ahead and settle. Otherwise hire one and let him have at it.

If you haven't gotten your car repaired, you might go ahead and do so if you can cover the cost out of pocket, including renting a replacement while yours is in the shop. That cost should be recoverable as well as part of the suit.

Good Luck, Glenn


----------



## Grunt0311 (Aug 23, 2005)

My mom just recently bought her Outback here in Michigan. As far as insurance goes, Michigan is foreign to just about everyother state as we are a "no-fault" state. I am an independent agent here in Michigan. I have my mom's Outback insured with Foremost. They have a great replacement cost product that for the first 5 years pays to replace your RV in the event of a total loss, and in years 5-10 pays you what you originally paid for it. This is a lot better then what the adjusters say that your RV is worth. Definately worth taking a look at!


----------



## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Ahh...Auto insurance.

The only product in the world you are REQUIRED... by law... to buy!









Gotta love it! eh?

Happy Trails,
Doug


----------



## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

PDX_Doug said:


> Ahh...Auto insurance.
> 
> The only product in the world you are REQUIRED... by law... to buy!
> 
> ...


Not in California- here you're free to post a bond for $30k, thereby showing that you're "financially responsible" and forgo the insurance entirely. Of course, anyone who can get a $30k bond is probably smart enough to have more coverage. . .

Kevin P.


----------



## LarryTheOutback (Jun 15, 2005)

PDX_Doug said:


> Ahh...Auto insurance.
> 
> The only product in the world you are REQUIRED... by law... to buy!Â


You are only required to have it if you drive. Driving is a choice









As one who has been on the receiving end ... having the other guy insured is a _good thing_. Also, I don't think you are legally required to have insurance, you have to have the ability to pay.


----------



## Allsixofus (Mar 10, 2005)

Were either of the drivers cited for "Following to closely behind" or something to that effect? I was in an accident similar to that one before and car C pushed car B into me... car C was cited and therefore responsible for fixing both cars A and B... just a thought!

Scott


----------



## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

LarryTheOutback said:


> PDX_Doug said:
> 
> 
> > Ahh...Auto insurance.
> ...


Here in PA, you either have proof of insurance, or you turn in your license plates....your choice!!

Steve


----------



## NWcamper2 (Mar 28, 2004)

First, sorry to hear of your troubles with the company in question.

The way it is in insurance business... it is car B that is responsible for repairs on car A. This is not a choice the insurance company has.... their insured hit you car. Period. 
(Do I sound like I have worked in the insurance business?... oops, I have.) My sister in fact is a State Farm Agent. I was a Rep. for State Farm.

(car C is responsible for repairs on car B )

It is unfortunate that you are dealing with C rated insurance companies. I have always believed that you get what you pay for... and it is so true when it comes to insurance companies.

When I had clients call informing of an accident, my first question was what company are we dealing with... if it was a B or C rated company, I took the claim, State Farm fixed their vehicle and State Farm would then subrogate... it is less hassle on the client that way.

I would call auto B's company back and tell them they are responsible due to the FACT that your vehicle was struck from behind by THEIR insured and ask how could they POSSIBLY say otherwise?


----------



## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Grunt, that sounds like the GM Insurance product, which is also what is offered via the Good Sam. Are they the underwriter for the policy you're talking about?

Anyway, I learned something interesting about no-fault in Michigan a few years back. Most insurance companies try to persuade you to buy their "broad form" collision insurance, whereby you don't pay a deductable if you're not at fault. But you can sue the other party in small claims court to recover your deductable anyway, so it's kind of a waste of money, especially if you do the math. Last time I calculated you'd have to have a not-at-fault accident about once every three years to justify the additional cost of the broad form.


----------



## LarryTheOutback (Jun 15, 2005)

huntr70 said:


> Here in PA, you either have proof of insurance, or you turn in your license plates....your choice!!
> [snapback]54451[/snapback]​


All states that I have lived in have either a "self insurance" clause (e.g. Oregon, where PDX_Doug and I live) or a bond (like California).

Never mind ... I was just challenging PDX-Doug's assertion that you were required by law to have insurance ... I'll take this up with him in person at the NW Rally









'nuff said.


----------



## NWcamper2 (Mar 28, 2004)

BoaterDan said:


> whereby you don't pay a deductable if you're not at fault. But you can sue the other party in small claims court to recover your deductable anyway[snapback]54463[/snapback]​


State Farm (only one I can speak experience from...) will get your deductible back when they subrogate the claim... and the first monies collected go back to the client. But I must say most times when the other company sees you have a larger company and know they will be subrogated with... they accept liability


----------



## NWcamper2 (Mar 28, 2004)

LarryTheOutback said:


> huntr70 said:
> 
> 
> > Here in PA, you either have proof of insurance, or you turn in your license plates....your choice!!
> ...


Hey there neighbor... we are also in Beaverton! Welcome to Outbackers!

Off topic.... We *had* decided we were too exhausted from all our trips this summer to make the Rally. But we enjoyed the Spring one so much and we have had a few weeks of recouping that we are now thinking we might be able to make it. So we might meet ya there!


----------



## 2blackdogs (Aug 25, 2005)

NWcamper2 said:


> LarryTheOutback said:
> 
> 
> > huntr70 said:
> ...


We also have State Farm. They really went to bat for us when our car was ran into twice by other people... OB and all our insurance is with them.
Judy & Bob & 2blackdogs


----------



## Sidewinder (Feb 25, 2005)

Thanks all!

Due to some great advice from kjp1969 and others, I now understand my rights a bit better and have a "game plan". I will be sure to let you all know how this plays out after my "letters" are delivered to those involved. I should have posted this a month ago!

I tell you, this forum is one h$ll of a cool resource!!!!!!!!!!! I have told DW many times, that one of the best things about camping is the fact that you meet people from all walks of life and all professions. Camping is by no means segregated by race, class, profession, status, etc......That's what's COOL.

This group ROCKS.

Sidewinder


----------



## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Sidewinder,



> This group ROCKS.


 I couldn't agree with you more.

Good luck in your dilemma.

Mark


----------



## 2blackdogs (Aug 25, 2005)

Just a word of caution for everyone.
If you are involved in a accident and have a cell phone with you, call the other parties insurance company to make sure they "actually" have insurance.
Here in NM people have to have insurance to get their registration plates and then do not make their payments and their ins is cancelled.
They still have their 6 month ins card to show to the officer and you when the accident occures.
I found out the hard way and got stuck paying my deductible for un-insured motorists. It was only $250 but I would have maybe demanded that his vechicle be towed from the scene and impounded. 
Bob & Judy (2blackdogs)


----------



## wicandthing (Jul 11, 2005)

I have been in several accidents since I began driving. The first, when I was 16, was very similar to yours. Ultimately, car C paid for damages to car A and mine. (In Alabama)

In my second accident, a 21 year old with 3 previous at-fault accidents turned left in front of me and I T-Boned him doing about 50. It totalled my truck and his car. State Farm paid me for my truck and went to battle with Geico. The only gripe I had was that I had to make a claim against Geico for my personal items that were destroyed in the wreck. I had a very expensive toolbox I had gotten at Christmas in the back of the truck. They wanted a receipt.... anyways, after threatening to hire an attorney, they paid my claim. The mother of the kid called State Farm saying she was having me investigated for hitting her son..... go figure. State Farm told her to go ahead and try. We never heard from her again.

Anyways, I believe having a good agent with a reputable company makes all the difference in world. I would never have Geico insurance after what I experienced trying to deal with them.


----------



## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Larry the O,

I know in the past you were correct, but I seem to recall hearing awhile back that the 'self-insurance' option has been dropped. I am not sure about this.

The point I was trying to make, however, is that it is quite a unique deal the insurance companies have going there. I wish I could come up with a way to write a law that 'all but' forced people to buy my product!









In the meantime, from your last post, it appears that I can count on you buying me a beer at the rally?









Happy Trails,
Doug


----------



## 7heaven (Jun 4, 2005)

Bob & Judy, I experienced that 14 months ago and am still waiting to be made whole.







State Farm was great and fixed my van, but the uninsured, unlicensed driver (who was making a quick beer run in his friends truck) hasn't seen fit to cough up the $2500 he owes me nor the $8500 he owes State Farm. Luckily, a police officer was sitting on the side of the road and saw the whole thing. State Farm is suing the guy for both of us, we'll see......


----------



## matty1 (Mar 7, 2005)

glad to hear things are working out...that is similiar to the situation when I got rear-ended earlier this year (and then couldn't move the outback from the middle of the driveway!)

The other guys insurance, Amica, said I was partially at fault because I "stomped" on my brakes... to avoid the guy cutting me off...they were only going to pay 50%..yeah right!. I had to go through my insurance, Allstate, and then have them do the fighting to get all the money back... went to third party binding arbitration and all...no one at allstate could understand their stance.


----------



## Roloaddict (Oct 29, 2004)

Glad to hear you got some good advice and have a plan. I'm sure we have all had some frustrating experiences when it comes to insurance whether it is home, car, medical, disability etc.

However, in defense of a company that has been mentioned - we have been insured for over 30 years and have needed to file 3 claims for accidents (none our fault). Each claim was handled with one phone call and payment and repairs were done within a week. Can't ask for more than that









Insurance companies are regulated by States. Each state has an Insurance Commissioner. If you don't agree with the response you get, appeal the decision to a higher level within the company. Asking for a review from the Insurance Commissioner in your state is always an option regardless of the type of insurance claim. Good Luck.
H.


----------



## Grunt0311 (Aug 23, 2005)

[Well insurance can be difficult to deal with. That is why it is important to have an AGENT that you trust. Anyone can go online and find cheap insurance, but remember, you get what you pay for. Most people are fine with that, until they have a claim and need to use the cheap insurance that they have been paying for. And come claims time, if you don't have an agent, you have no one to go to bat for you.

Also, BoaterDan, you are somewhat correct as far as Broad form coverage. The only problem is that if you are hit while parked, or hit and run, and do not know who did the damage, then you are stuck paying the deductible and have no one to take to small claims court to get it back.


----------



## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

Don't even get me started on INSURANCE COMPANIES!

Let me tell you about the time I almost pushed a S.F. agent off my roof...No...wait! How about the time S.F. wrote me a check for $250 after the river swallowed my home. That $250 dollars they paid me really helped restore my $45,000 worth of damage.

Ahhh, fa-git-about-it.


----------



## Sidewinder (Feb 25, 2005)

Update,

I took the professional advice of kjp1969 and drafted a letter to the parties involved and there insurance companies. My wife called Geico and spoke with the claims adjuster to advise him of our impending actions and to get the direct address to mail said letter(s). When she got back home from running an errand, there was a message on the answering machine stating that they (Geico) had cut a check in the amount of the body shop quote and would be sending it out today.

I guess kjp1969 has showed us how to "call their bluff".









I'll post again when the "check that's in the mail" actually shows up.

Sidewinder


----------



## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

Sidewinder,

Glad it worked out for you (if you get the check). My wifes car was backed into about 1 month ago by a rental car out of VA. The driver had Geico insurance and they refused to cover the vehicle. On top of that the driver had left the country on business and would be gone for 2 months. I did some internet searching and found out the rental car company was owned by Avis and started making some phone calls. After about 4 calls to the same lady they informed me that in VA the rental car company not the renter carries the insurance. 2 days later they had an ajuster here to look at the car. I recieved a phone call from the nice lady asking me if they were to mail the check to me would I be able to take care of getting the repairs done. Since I work for a GM dealer and Avis was being so nice, I thought that it was the least that I could do for them. It should be repaired next week...

Gary


----------



## Sidewinder (Feb 25, 2005)

Fire44,

You know how those [email protected] Virginia drivers are









This has just ticked me off in a big way after what happened last December. I got t-boned in a Home Depot parking lot while driving my truck. A guy in a work van cruised through an intersection...must have been going 30+mph in the parking lot and never checked up. He hit my truck right behind the rear passenger side wheel. Bent the wheel, destroyed the side of the bed, the camper shell flew off in the road, and spun my truck around at about 45 degrees from where it had been pointed. That one took my truck out of service for over a month and I just got my deductible payment back last month after the litigation process proved that it wasn't my fault. My how the wheels do turn slow.

On the bright side of that one, though, Collision One, Inc. here in Mechanicsville put my truck back together PERFECTLY (shameless plug for a good business).

I'm glad you got a satisfactory resolution in your ordeal, too!

Sidewinder


----------



## Sidewinder (Feb 25, 2005)

Here's and update for all of you great people in Outbacker Land that might be interested.

The check actually came Saturday......After more than two months of stonewalling, Geico finally decided to send us a check on Thursday evening (with the help of some awesome advice from kjp1969 and others) and it was in the mailbox on Saturday!!!!!

The saga of Sidewinder and the "He said...She said case" may be over. We dropped of the Odyssey last night for repairs. I'm sure my good friends at Collision One in Mechanicsville will patch this one up as good as they did my truck!

Thank you everyone for your advice (especially to kjp1969 who shares his professional wisdom) and comments. This place is GREAT. It's like a Knowledge Super Walmart. If you can't find it here....you don't need it!!!

Sidewinder


----------



## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

Sidewinder said:


> Here's and update for all of you great people in Outbacker Land that might be interested.
> 
> The check actually came Saturday......After more than two months of stonewalling, Geico finally decided to send us a check on Thursday evening (with the help of some awesome advice from kjp1969 and others) and it was in the mailbox on Saturday!!!!!
> 
> ...


Glad to be of help.

A couple things for everyone to remember: First, be nice and make it easy for them to pay you. Adjusters are like anyone else, they'll take the path of least resistance. It's not their money, but they'll have to answer to their supervisor for how they spent it. So give them all the facts they need in order to pay, don't get greedy, and chances are they'll pay promptly so that they can close the file and work on something else. Don't be afraid to ask for every cent that you're entitled to.

If they're dragging their feet, its probably because your claim isn't a high enough priority in their 100-or-so list of open cases. It's often helpful to threaten to sue their insured, and then follow through if they don't respond. The only thing that will get an adjuster in hotter water than paying out too much in benefit dollars is having to explain why they now have to hire an attorney to defend a lawsuit over money they should have paid in the first place.

Kevin P.


----------

