# Big Three Beg For Aid As Bailout Bill Stalls



## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

They Want another 25 billion, 50 billion for the Year

I don't want to see them go.................but when is enough enough.............can't they file chapter 11 and reorganize like other failing mismanaged companies?????

What kind of reward do i get for running my business in a fiscally responsible Manner...........that's right i get to pay more Taxes...........


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Answers my own question

I just saw this online...........


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Do you think maybe that we will then maybe get a really good "closeout sale"?


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

rdvholtwood said:


> Do you think maybe that we will then maybe get a really good "closeout sale"?


You're closeout sale opprotunity is now. Bankruptcy will reduce competition and drive prices higher.

Not to start a conflict, I would just like to point out 2 things:

1. The 25 Billion in loans already 'approved' has not been loaned and will not be for some time.... GM will likely be bankrupt by then.

2. 1 in 10 jobs in America is affected by the auto industry.

I don't pretend to have the answer, but I am very concerned about what will happen and how long this recession will be if our manufacturing base fails.


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## bill_pfaff (Mar 11, 2005)

Nathan said:


> I don't pretend to have the answer, but I am very concerned about what will happen and how long this recession will be if our manufacturing base fails.


I'm pretty much with you Nathan. Cars are about the only thing this country makes in quantity any more. What happens if/when that stops happening??

I too am sick of bailing everyone out and being punished for borrowing responsibly (mortgage) and paying my bills on time but if the whole thing goes down the tubes then I lose what I have now.

My problem is that we are rewarding those that put us in this position (bail out). If my job performance netted my employer the economic returns that equaled the negative returns from these supposed big business leaders I'd be on my but in the street. Instead these guys get to keep their job, still get bonuses, and take exorbitant business trips.

What's wrong with this picture? And we wonder why this country is going to the dogs.

I heard on NPR that the current economic condition is starting to effect the elite. They are only buying shoes at Neiman Marcus if they are on sale. God I feel bad for them.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Don't get me Wrong..............i do not know what the "Best" Answer is........and the ripple effect from the Auto industry will affect more people than any of the economic woes yet............

I would not want to be any of the persons trying to weigh out the Pro's & Con's on what outcome would better serve the economy.......

I certainly , on face value, do not like the idea of bailing people out for their failures............but it goes so much deeper..........


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Ford's former CEO who many of us blame for a lot of the problems got thrown out a few years back when his house of cards started collapsing. His next line of work was in the banking industry.









Coincidence?!?!


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Some businesses have filed chapter 11 and emerged stronger - some airlines I think have done this. I wonder if chapter 11 protection would allow business such as GM to re-establish relationships with suppliers and unions such that the business itself ends up in a better situation?? Although, part of me doesn't feel great about that option being as they are the ones that put themselves in the situation they are in. FYI - I don't blame unions so much - they just do everything they can to get as much as they can for their members (which is why they exist I think). Unions are what they are and you can't really change that. Having said that - would chapter 11 protection allow the same people in power to do better this time around? I dunno what the answer is.

Bill - I know this is off topic and anecdotal but...I recently discovered that there is another elite class and we are in it - the Wal-Mart elite. Compared to the huge majority of kids at our local elementary school, we are an "elite" family. Our daughter goes to school wearing clothes bought at wal-mart - often on sale. To my sad surprise, that made us elite (in comparison). Elite because the clothes fit and are not ragged out, hand me downs or old. Makes me feel fortunate for darn sure. My kindergartner recently wore a holiday themed outfit to school - an orange and brown fall dress that had a halloween'ish image of a kitty on it and some "fall colored" striped leggings. She looked wonderful and festive. The principal stopped her and nearly didn't let her into school because she was "wearing a costume" and "we don't allow costumes in school". Only dawned on us later that no other kids ever wore clothes like that so in comparison, it looked like she was wearing one. Principal later apologized.

-CC


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Nathan said:


> Ford's former CEO who many of us blame for a lot of the problems got thrown out a few years back when his house of cards started collapsing. His next line of work was in the banking industry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nathan - would that be Nasser?

-CC


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

collinsfam_tx said:


> Nathan - would that be Nasser?
> 
> -CC


I can't beleive you uttered the name







.... isn't profanity banned on this website?


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## garyb1st (Dec 6, 2007)

I'm don't necessarily support bailouts and personally I think all this one will do is buy us some time. On the other hand, we're in a pretty steep slide. If the big three shut down, the slide is going to look more like a cliff. We're running out of time and the mess we're in isn't going to be solved overnight.

It's hard not to be pessimistic here but don't think much is going to change in the near term. So if we pump funds into the big three now and don't do anything to turn the economy around, all we've done is increase our tax bill and delayed the inevitable. On the other hand, if our elected officials can move beyond pork barrel politics and their personal agendas, getting reelected, maybe we have a chance.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Here's an interesting breakdown of perceptions and facts on some significant issues:
What's really killing Detroit

Incidentially, the way I've read it, if the Big 3 can make it another year, they will unload the pensions that are dragging them down right now (this agreement was part of the last contract). If an automaker (say GM) goes under prior to this, that entire pension could be dumped on the Federal government (read taxpayer's) shoulders. That makes a low interest loan to float them for a year seem like a very low cost in comparison.


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## bill_pfaff (Mar 11, 2005)

collinsfam_tx said:


> ...I recently discovered that there is another elite class and we are in it - the Wal-Mart elite.


Fear not CC I know what you mean and I'm sorry to say it exists as a truism.

I was just trying to say that I felt sorry for the Neiman Marcus group because I was still able to pay full price for the shoes at walmart.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

And how would bankruptcy affect our warranties? They are contracts that were included in the purchase price, and we paid for them. Would these "contracts" be renegotiated, just like the contracts they have with their employees and retirees. Warranty costs are HUGE to most manufacturers.

Not sure - just asking????

Mike


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

collinsfam_tx said:


> Some businesses have filed chapter 11 and emerged stronger - some airlines I think have done this. I wonder if chapter 11 protection would allow business such as GM to re-establish relationships with suppliers and unions such that the business itself ends up in a better situation?? Although, part of me doesn't feel great about that option being as they are the ones that put themselves in the situation they are in. FYI - I don't blame unions so much - they just do everything they can to get as much as they can for their members (which is why they exist I think). Unions are what they are and you can't really change that. Having said that - would chapter 11 protection allow the same people in power to do better this time around? I dunno what the answer is.
> 
> Bill - I know this is off topic and anecdotal but...I recently discovered that there is another elite class and we are in it - the Wal-Mart elite. Compared to the huge majority of kids at our local elementary school, we are an "elite" family. Our daughter goes to school wearing clothes bought at wal-mart - often on sale. To my sad surprise, that made us elite (in comparison). Elite because the clothes fit and are not ragged out, hand me downs or old. Makes me feel fortunate for darn sure. My kindergartner recently wore a holiday themed outfit to school - an orange and brown fall dress that had a halloween'ish image of a kitty on it and some "fall colored" striped leggings. She looked wonderful and festive. The principal stopped her and nearly didn't let her into school because she was "wearing a costume" and "we don't allow costumes in school". Only dawned on us later that no other kids ever wore clothes like that so in comparison, it looked like she was wearing one. Principal later apologized.
> 
> -CC


I think the problem with any of them filling Chaper 11 is who is going to make a major purchase of an automobile and have good reason to think that the manufacturer may not be in business in the near future. How abou the suppliers, would you want to put your company on the line to deliver a product to a company that is in chapter 11? Are the "big 3" going to go to a "cash on delivery" for parts???

Gary


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Bad business fail all the time. It is high time we look at the Big 3 and say sorry you've made some bad decisions over the years and your partner the UAW has done the same. If they file for Bankruptcy they will be free and clear of all the bad contracts that are keeping them down. Right now Ford is doing very well in Europe with their fuel efficient vehicles, but they can not import them due to Union issues. GM is bragging about the Chevy Volt - give me a break this car will only go 40 miles before it needs to be plugged in again, worthless.

GM/Ford/Dodge never learned any lessons from the Japanese auto builders, and once again its biting them in the butt - enough.

Reality is that there will be a birth of new companies and/or expansion of other automakers to fill their void if they can't turn it around on their own.

I've already emailed my Congressmen and Senator and voiced my vote for no more bail out money.

I've never felt the need to buy a foreign car, but after looking around and the current options I don't have much choice.


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## garyb1st (Dec 6, 2007)

Y-Guy said:


> If they file for Bankruptcy they will be free and clear of all the bad contracts that are keeping them down.


Unlike bad contracts, bankruptcy doesn't eliminate bad management.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Y-Guy said:


> I've already emailed my Congressmen and Senator and voiced my vote for no more bail out money.
> 
> I've never felt the need to buy a foreign car, but after looking around and the current options I don't have much choice.


No bailout AND buy foreign...... problem solved....


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Just remember.. 1 in 10 would lose there jobs.. Which translates to 1 in 7 by the time the tidal wave is over..

150,000,000 workers, so 21+ million would lose there jobs..

That would equal maybe 8-10 million more foreclosures..

Look at how many banks have failed now...

The US economy would be destroyed...

Yea maybe they dont deserve our money..

This isnt about money anymore... Its about the USA as we know it..

Either we pony up here or live in a memory..

Carey


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

It's not a bail out it is a loan they are asking for. The reason they are having problems is because of the stupid loans banks made to people who did not deserve or could afford the house they were buying. I for one think we should be helping out all the US industries that we can.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

"GM/Ford/Dodge never learned any lessons from the Japanese auto builders, and once again its biting them in the butt - enough."

What lesson has the Japanese taught us?

Sure they make some great cars, but as far as a lesson... hmmm?

We started the automotive business. The 1st japanese cars that came to this country were junk, but got better fuel mileage, thats all. The big 3 could have easilly destroyed them back then if they'd took them more serious.

You got to remember what drives this country.... Profits!

This is why the big 3 are in trouble..

Oil drilling is begining to slow back down too.. Why? No profit in sub 60 dollar a barrel oil... Drilling will stop in the USA... Yep, just when we need domestic oil, we turn off the spiket becasue its no longer profitable...

Your 401k or IRA portfolio wouldnt like a non profitable company, right? What makes headlines on CNBC? Non profitable companies!!!

This is why we are in trouble... When it comes to energy and auto manufacturing, profits need to come second to what is Needed in our world..

Next problem... Who will allow a US based company to do business for need and not worry about profit?.. LIKE KNOWONE!!!

lol Here is a good fix... Non profit automakers and energy producers.. They could hold out there hat like the Red Cross, lol They could have fund raisers!! maybe they could start having bake sales, lol I have an idea!!! Sell cookies shaped like cars tires, yea, with white lettering icing that says "Be sure and support your big 3"

Until our automakers are allowed to produce vehicles that we NEED and not worry about profits, things will never change..

If the govt would have taxed imports llke all govts around the world do, maybe things could have been different.. Yea it would have helped..

Yea I will die being mad at the big 3 for not destroying the weak foriegn makers back in the 70's... But oh well...

Its due time we allow our automakers make us vehicles that works for us, not them.. BUT we expect profits from our big 3, so what can they do to make profits? Jamb great big gas guzzlers down our throats... Thats where the PROFITS are!

So..... Which one of us americans are gonna let our big 3(our brothers) off of the hook to start building us cars that doesnt make them profits?

I'm ready...... How bout you? Our future depends on our decisions RIGHT NOW!

I wont get into the need to drill oil for NEED and forgo profits here today<wink>

Carey

Carey


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Nathan said:


> Nathan - would that be Nasser?
> 
> -CC


I can't beleive you uttered the name







.... isn't profanity banned on this website?








[/quote]

I cursed and didn't even know I was! Did you happen to see the recent Consumer Reports article on automaker quality? Go Mulally and Fields!

-CC


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## bill_pfaff (Mar 11, 2005)

Wow Carey, good stuff, however; right, wrong or indifferent some of the implications as I read them and direct statements like "business for need and not worry about profit" set off the socialism alarm in my mind.

Believe me I consider myself far from a socialist but don't you think this country tends to lean in that direction at times and perhaps, dare I say it, for the right reasons.

I love this country, I love my freedoms, I love my standard of living and yes I have served my time in service to help preserve it and its ways but is it time we start to question the old tried and sometimes questionably untrue methods?

Reality is talking to us. Hadn't we better listen? I believe we are where we are now because we haven't listened in the past.

Easy on the big guns everyone, this was just some food for thought.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Y-Guy said:


> .... Right now Ford is doing very well in Europe with their fuel efficient vehicles, but they can not import them due to Union issues...


Please do not blame the UAW for the import/non-import decision. The reason these cars cannot be imported is that they do not meet US emission or US safety regulations. It's not the popular answer right now, but it is the truth. Also, the cars would be more expensive if imported because they could be made more cheaply in the US due to our labor rates...


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## Tyvekcat (Aug 28, 2007)

I heard a great idea the other day. Don't write a check directly to the companies or unions. Just make a tax incentive or a monster rebate for buying an American car or truck. Now that will stimulate the economy. sales people, dealers, transporters, advertising, all of it starts again. This gets product off dealers lots and production starts at the big three again, third party suppliers start up again. This puts a new car in American taxpayer driveways and buys time for Chrysler to get rid of Nardelli.
Drop 'cafe' standards and let the car companies build what Americans want. None of the imports have cafe standards.
I want to buy a automobile that is not designed by the politburo in washington.

I like choice and selection. I like my American truck, and Jeep, but I choose to have cars from other manufacturers.
The Chrysler/ GM merger just don't make sense.


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

I don't know whats right or wrong in respect to the Automakers. I can appreciate some of the arguements from both sides. I'm pretty sure that whatever happens, the American public is going to take the brunt, at least in the near term.
I do have a thought, though. If the issue is simply cash flow and needing to be able to make it in the near term, why can't the government simply suspend the income taxes payments the automakers are required to pay for a period of time. Wouldn't that provide them then the available cash needed to get through their crunch?

The real solution to the whole economic mess is to return confidence in the economy so that people will feel OK about purchasing again.

Regards, Glenn


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

I think that while some of the problem is the automaker themselves, the big problem is the economy. People aren't making any big ticket purchases and until the economy turns around then nothing is going to help.

Does the American auto makers need help, yes, will a loan of $25 billion solve the problem, I don't think so.

One thing that does need to happen is for the American people to wake up, there are many that purchase a import without looking at any of the "big 3". I was watching football the other night and all I saw was ads talking about Honda's Accord with the great gas mileage of 31 mpg...take a look around, the Chevrolet Malibu gets 33 mpg, Ford also has a car that gets mileage better than Honda. And I know people that will say, "Honda makes a better car", they make a very nice car, but it isn't better than the cars that the American automakers are building now. And forget the "My Honda, Toyota is built in America".....follow the money, it might be built here by an American but the profit goes back to Japan.


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## garyb1st (Dec 6, 2007)

GlenninTexas said:


> The real solution to the whole economic mess is to return confidence in the economy so that people will feel OK about purchasing again.
> Regards, Glenn


No question about it. But that is going to take time and the big three don't have much left.

The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking, no bailout and, let the chips fall where they may.

There are no win win solutions on the table. There will be casualties no matter what we do. So maybe the best thing to do is nothing. Let them struggle and, as they say, may the best 'man' win. The good news, it won't be a 12 rounder. Without help, it's a round or two at best. Having said that, maybe having one or two strong vehicle manufactures is better than three on the ropes, and the sooner it happens the better.

There's always going to be a market for large vehicles in the good old US of A. The Japanese know it or they wouldn't have introduced the Titan and and upgraded the Tundra. It won't be long before they include a diesel on one of these big trucks. And then it's just a matter of upgrading suspensions, adding larger brakes and heavier transmissions and voila, we don't need the big three.

I hope this doesn't happen. Nothing personal, but I don't like buying cars from the Japanese. They're to short. Every time I open the hatch on my Infiniti QX4, I bump my head on the damn thing.









I'd rather buy American.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Gotta love the Brash Ignorance that goes with Being the Top Dog.........How they got there


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## garyb1st (Dec 6, 2007)

clarkely said:


> Gotta love the Brash Ignorance that goes with Being the Top Dog.........How they got there


It's good to be king.


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

I found this Op-Ed by Mitt Romney to be a very well written point of view. Shame we don't have a businessman(woman) running things for a change.


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## 7heaven (Jun 4, 2005)

I agree with Mitt's editorial, except Ford CEO Alan Mulally is from outside the industry. They stole him from Boeing and he should be given a chance to continue the work he has started there. I am disappointed Ford has not chosen to import the Fiesta ECOnetic, which gets 65 mpg and runs on diesel. People around the world who pay $6 per gallon for fuel have grown accustom to the turbo-diesel car.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Just watched this..... interesting....

Big 3 still flying private jets


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I sat and listened to the big 3 talk to the congress today.. They sure were poking fun of there private jets. That was funny.. I wonder if those biz jets are leased or bought and paid for? Either way, the planes are under contract, so I feel its fair they flew private..

When you work at the top of corporate, flying private is something they all do.. shoot all of congress and prolly even the senate flies private too...

I wasnt impressed by the big guys of the big 3.. The ford guy was best of them though.

I wonder if we could make a deal with Rick Wagner... if GM gets money, he goes bye bye.. Out of the 3, he sounded like a dweeb... The ford guy made some good words, and the chyco guy was ok too.. All 3 were out of touch it seemed to me though.

I think they were doombed from the start though... The lawmakers sounded like they had it out for them from the start..

I get a feeling congress wants rid of the UAW... If that is so, they will force them into bankruptcy so congress gets its way..

What a moment in history we are living in..

In the end, I feel they will get some bail money.. Might be too little or maybe too late, but I think they will end up salvaged.. This time they better forgo some profits for cars that are needed.. it will be there last chance..

And yep, I agree, till they start selling cars again, they are stymied... That goes for all carmakers..

Carey


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Sayonara said:


> I've already emailed my Congressmen and Senator and voiced my vote for no more bail out money.
> 
> I've never felt the need to buy a foreign car, but after looking around and the current options I don't have much choice.


No bailout AND buy foreign...... problem solved....








[/quote]
For the record..... My comment (response) above was a joke !









And, as it has been stated a few times now. This isnt a bailout as many call it. its a loan. The bailout term is media hype. Nobody is being handed money. People get loans every day, or at least used to. Its been done in the past and worked out well. Who knows if it will work again but we will soon find out. Something will be passed.........


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Until I hear the details, I'm calling it a bailout.. More than likely the deal will be some special deal a bank would not have given them..

At that point it should be called a bail, even if they got to pay it back in 2096.. lol

Carey


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## jozway (Jan 28, 2008)

They shouldnt get any money until there ready to reorganize and cut out all the waste.


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

The dealership that I work for has shifted to the car maket. When I started working for them back in 1986 we stocked 3 trucks to every 1 car. Today we have 4 trucks on the lot and more than 90 cars. I don't think that anything will help till the economy changes. Everything else is just a stop gap measure at the best.

Gary


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## jozway (Jan 28, 2008)

One of my customers owns a bmw dealership and a mini cooper dealership. BMW is selling nothing and mini cooper never even slowed down.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

jozway said:


> One of my customers owns a bmw dealership and a mini cooper dealership. BMW is selling nothing and mini cooper never even slowed down.


Hmmm that is strange since their gas millage is not that good and they are really ugly cars. But I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


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## jozway (Jan 28, 2008)

N7OQ said:


> One of my customers owns a bmw dealership and a mini cooper dealership. BMW is selling nothing and mini cooper never even slowed down.


Hmmm that is strange since their gas millage is not that good and they are really ugly cars. But I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
[/quote]

I couldnt agree with you more. They have people on a waiting list for cars that arent even made yet.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Until I hear the details, I'm calling it a bailout.. More than likely the deal will be some special deal a bank would not have given them..
> 
> At that point it should be called a bail, even if they got to pay it back in 2096.. lol
> 
> Carey


If a bank would give them the loan, they wouldn't be asking congress. Banker's don't criticise you for flying on a corporate jet as long as they have a nicer one!









The standard discussion has been a 5% interest loan. I beleive the rate goes up if you don't pay it off in 3 years or something. It's really no different than a home mortgage (I'm at 5.375% for a 30 fixed







and at the time could have gotten a sub 5% on a 5/1 arm).

Of course the treasury is still paying below 2% for a 3 year note, so that means the Fed Govt would be making 3% on $25 billion as it was being paid back. Sure it's not a huge return, but I'd like 750 million in profit!









Looks like it isn't going to go through though. I sure hope that someone figures how much the banruptcies cost after they are complete. Just imagine hundreds of thousands of additional pensions that will have to be covered by the federal government now...


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Nathan said:


> Until I hear the details, I'm calling it a bailout.. More than likely the deal will be some special deal a bank would not have given them..
> 
> At that point it should be called a bail, even if they got to pay it back in 2096.. lol
> 
> Carey


If a bank would give them the loan, they wouldn't be asking congress. Banker's don't criticise you for flying on a corporate jet as long as they have a nicer one!









The standard discussion has been a 5% interest loan. I beleive the rate goes up if you don't pay it off in 3 years or something. It's really no different than a home mortgage (I'm at 5.375% for a 30 fixed







and at the time could have gotten a sub 5% on a 5/1 arm).

Of course the treasury is still paying below 2% for a 3 year note, so that means the Fed Govt would be making 3% on $25 billion as it was being paid back. Sure it's not a huge return, but I'd like 750 million in profit!









Looks like it isn't going to go through though. I sure hope that someone figures how much the banruptcies cost after they are complete. Just imagine hundreds of thousands of additional pensions that will have to be covered by the federal government now...








[/quote]

Thanks Nathan for adding some accurrate information !! And your right, while the govt made millions on Chryslers first loan, they WILL make hundreds of millions on this loan (10 year, i believe) as well when it IS approved. Probably not until February though.


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## garyb1st (Dec 6, 2007)

Sayonara said:


> And your right, while the govt made millions on Chryslers first loan, they WILL make hundreds of millions on this loan (10 year, i believe) as well when it IS approved. Probably not until February though.


Maybe they will and maybe they won't. Don't remember what the economic situation was like when Chrysler was floundering, but it wasn't even on the chart compared to what's going on today.

I'm not sure why congress isn't stepping up to this one and hope it's only because some think the bailout isn't going to work. But then they ought to at least tell us that, and maybe offer up a suggestion or two. Sure talking about personal jets and extravagant parties makes for great press, but it derails the more important agenda. How are we going to solve this problem. I'm not saying that the kinds of excess we've seen by the likes of AIG and the Big Three with their personal jets don't need to be addressed but let's table that until we at least see a bit of land. We may not want to believe it, but the ship got a huge hole in it's hull.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

garyb1st said:


> And your right, while the govt made millions on Chryslers first loan, they WILL make hundreds of millions on this loan (10 year, i believe) as well when it IS approved. Probably not until February though.


Maybe they will and maybe they won't. Don't remember what the economic situation was like when Chrysler was floundering, but it wasn't even on the chart compared to what's going on today.

I'm not sure why congress isn't stepping up to this one and hope it's only because some think the bailout isn't going to work. But then they ought to at least tell us that, and maybe offer up a suggestion or two. Sure talking about personal jets and extravagant parties makes for great press, but it derails the more important agenda. How are we going to solve this problem. I'm not saying that the kinds of excess we've seen by the likes of AIG and the Big Three with their personal jets don't need to be addressed but let's table that until we at least see a bit of land. We may not want to believe it, but the ship got a huge hole in it's hull. 
[/quote]
Very good point. Im thinking this will stall until the new admin is in. nobody wants to take responsibility right now.


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## daves700 (Jun 12, 2006)

Sounds like they may have reached a deal ... they say 2:30 they talk details .... god I hope it works ... too many layoff's if the industry falls.

**update, sounds like bad info, no deal yet**


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Nathan said:


> Until I hear the details, I'm calling it a bailout.. More than likely the deal will be some special deal a bank would not have given them..
> 
> At that point it should be called a bail, even if they got to pay it back in 2096.. lol
> 
> Carey


If a bank would give them the loan, they wouldn't be asking congress. Banker's don't criticise you for flying on a corporate jet as long as they have a nicer one!









The standard discussion has been a 5% interest loan. I beleive the rate goes up if you don't pay it off in 3 years or something. It's really no different than a home mortgage (I'm at 5.375% for a 30 fixed







and at the time could have gotten a sub 5% on a 5/1 arm).

Of course the treasury is still paying below 2% for a 3 year note, so that means the Fed Govt would be making 3% on $25 billion as it was being paid back. Sure it's not a huge return, but I'd like 750 million in profit!









Looks like it isn't going to go through though. I sure hope that someone figures how much the banruptcies cost after they are complete. Just imagine hundreds of thousands of additional pensions that will have to be covered by the federal government now...








[/quote]

I'll still call it a bailout, because banks would charge astronomical interest rates for this loan.. 5% is a smoking deal!

Caey


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

daves700 said:


> Sounds like they may have reached a deal ... they say 2:30 they talk details .... god I hope it works ... too many layoff's if the industry falls.
> 
> **update, sounds like bad info, no deal yet**


At around 2:30 they were close to closing a Bridge Loan deal. Now the gov wants some more details before approving. we will see....


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