# Total Led Conversion



## jtarby (Aug 30, 2007)

I've read a number of posts about converting the lights to LEDs, but they have all involved a bulb-for-LED replacement and so that each incandescent bulb was replaced with an LED that was mounted on a little circuit board with a resistor. I know that there are a few members out here who know their local Radio Shack like the back of their hand and wondered if anyone had approached this from a different angle, namely converting the entire lighting circuit in the trailer to run LED instead of incandescent so that you didn't have to put little resistors on each light.

I don't know how isolated the lighting circuits are and if this is even feasible, but it would seem that it would be significantly cheaper to do it that way instead of paying for a more complex LED circuit for each light.

Feasible? Anyone ever looked into it?

As a side note, I did formally do my first mod, I constructed a toothbrush holder for the bathroom out of a piece of oak that a put a nice routed edge on and painted it an offwhite to match the cabinets. I then added a half dozen stainless steel cup hooks that closely match the finish of the hardware in the bathroom. The whole thing was then silicone'd to the wall.


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

not practical in my opinion.
First off resistors are cheap. like 10 cents for a 100 pack.
Second thing is the value of the resistors needs to be calculated based on the number of LED's on the circuit.
Since several of the light fixtures are switched at the fixture itself, the number of LED's in the circuit would be constantly changing as lights are turned on and off.

Good thinking on your part though.


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## Grunt0311 (Aug 23, 2005)

I know they make LED replacement lights that just fit in the socket like the bulb that normally comes in it. I have no idea how much they cost, or where to get them. Thor did this mod, and you may try pm'ing him to ask about it. Good luck!

Bill


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## jtarby (Aug 30, 2007)

Yeah, I've seen the bulb replacements, was about $10 per socket if I recall correctly, about $300 to do the whole trailer. I don't think it's a matter of the components being that expensive, just a matter of having access to the parts or paying an inflated price to have something that just replaces the bulb directly. I was just trying to go at the problem from a different angle. From the other reply though, doesn't look like it would work.


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

Clicky

A link to a very old thread with some more options.
You can see the route I took there.


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## russk42 (Sep 10, 2007)

I've been toying around with this sort of project. A few issues:
---the bare LEDs tend to have a "beam", i.e. they are not effective for area lighting. It may be possible to get LEDs with a built in diffuser
---the LED replacement bulbs plug right into the socket, bare LEDs have to be soldered in somehow.
--incandescents will light up over a wide voltage range; LEDs will not light up if the voltage is too low.

I got 100 white LEDs with matching resistors (for 12V) on Ebay for about $10. They have a nominal supply voltage of 3.2-3.6. I have found that 4 LEDs in series work well when I'm on shore power---they work just as well as a single LED with the resistor. I'm not sure how they would work when running on the battery----especially as it decreases voltage as the charge runs down. [4 LEDs x 3.2V each =12.8 V]

I may just use the LEDs in the closets and bunks. Especially the closets across from the bath in my 28rss
I may put in additional switches so that I can choose between LED or incandescent.


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## russk42 (Sep 10, 2007)

Katrina said:


> Second thing is the value of the resistors needs to be calculated based on the number of LED's on the circuit.
> Since several of the light fixtures are switched at the fixture itself, the number of LED's in the circuit would be constantly changing as lights are turned on and off.
> .


I believe that the light fixtures are usually wired in parallel, so this would not be an issue.


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## SoCalOutback (Dec 18, 2005)

It's possible with a little bit of work. I have not thought it all the way through but if you use LED drivers like this:

http://www.ledsupply.com/02008b-1000.php

You can power up to 18 1 watt LEDs.

These Cree LEDs give off a nice light:

http://www.ledsupply.com/leda-moon.php

It may be possible to use a larger LED driver for the lights controlled by the wall switches and smaller drivers for the individual lights that are not on wall switches.

It would require some rewiring of the fixtures but it would be possible, although not cheap.


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## W4DRR (May 17, 2005)

russk42 said:


> I believe that the light fixtures are usually wired in parallel, so this would not be an issue.


Oh contraire. LED's are like some children and do not share well with others. In this case current. Without some means to balance the current, some LED's will hog more current than others, causing unequal brightness. A resistor in series with each LED will balance the current.
Not too long ago, as a moonlight project, I designed a blue light illuminator for a company that needed lots of blue LED's for viewing protein stains in medical research.
Here's a link to the PDF...Click Here
It has 26 parallel banks of 4 LED's in series, for a total of 104 LED's. The entire matrix was fed from a single point that had active current limiting, but each bank of 4 required a ballast resistor to balance current draw between the banks. Even with the ballast resistors, and ordering specially matched LED's, there was still some imbalance in brightness.

Bob


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## Grunt0311 (Aug 23, 2005)

W4DRR said:


> I believe that the light fixtures are usually wired in parallel, so this would not be an issue.


Oh contraire. LED's are like some children and do not share well with others. In this case current. Without some means to balance the current, some LED's will hog more current than others, causing unequal brightness. A resistor in series with each LED will balance the current.
Not too long ago, as a moonlight project, I designed a blue light illuminator for a company that needed lots of blue LED's for viewing protein stains in medical research.
Here's a link to the PDF...Click Here
It has 26 parallel banks of 4 LED's in series, for a total of 104 LED's. The entire matrix was fed from a single point that had active current limiting, but each bank of 4 required a ballast resistor to balance current draw between the banks. Even with the ballast resistors, and ordering specially matched LED's, there was still some imbalance in brightness.

Bob
[/quote]

Wow, my head hurts after reading that







. Waaaay above my paygrade


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## russk42 (Sep 10, 2007)

W4DRR said:


> Oh contraire. LED's are like some children and do not share well with others. In this case current. Without some means to balance the current, some LED's will hog more current than others, causing unequal brightness. A resistor in series with each LED will balance the current.
> Bob


I'm sure that you're right about variations in brightness, but my point, in response to an earlier post; was that each light fixture is wired parallel to the others; so that there will not be any difference when one (or more) fixtures is switched on or off. 
All fixtures in the trailer could be wired up with LEDs, or one fixture, or several...it won't make any significant difference, as long as the LEDs in each fixture are ready for the 12v circuit. That may be with a single LED in series with a resistor, or 4 LEDs in series (assuming the LEDs are made for 3v).


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## W4DRR (May 17, 2005)

russk42 said:


> Oh contraire. LED's are like some children and do not share well with others. In this case current. Without some means to balance the current, some LED's will hog more current than others, causing unequal brightness. A resistor in series with each LED will balance the current.
> Bob


I'm sure that you're right about variations in brightness, but my point, in response to an earlier post; was that each light fixture is wired parallel to the others; so that there will not be any difference when one (or more) fixtures is switched on or off. 
All fixtures in the trailer could be wired up with LEDs, or one fixture, or several...it won't make any significant difference, as long as the LEDs in each fixture are ready for the 12v circuit. That may be with a single LED in series with a resistor, or 4 LEDs in series (assuming the LEDs are made for 3v).
[/quote]

My reply was to a statement earlier about putting LED's in all the fixtures on a parallel circuit with only one series limiting resistor for the entire circuit.
I believe what you intend is for each LED has it's own limit resistor, which works fine, or stacking up 3 or 4 LED's to achieve an approximate 12V drop which kind of works, but is not really the best method because the 12V can vary all over the place. Something like 10.5V all the way up to over 14V. That much change in voltage can cause LED's to be extremely bright at the high end, and almost totally off at the low end.

Bob


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## Cheyenne (Oct 15, 2007)

Sorry for the late reply, we've been out campin'









I converted all of our interior lights using high power 3 watt warm white LEDs from CREE. My wife really likes the quality of the light they produce - it's warm like incandescent. I use three 3W LEDs run at 2W each to replace each 18W incandescent bulb. This results in more light output at 1/3 the power consumption.

We like softer light late at night so I wanted the ability to dim the lights. The main cabin lights (3 fixtures) are dimmed by a control near the front door. The fixture over the table has it's own dimmer.

Resistors work OK and are very simple to use, but they get hot and waste power. So I purchased some very small LED "ballasts" from RECOM. They are 95% efficient (don't waste any power) while very precisely feeding the LEDs exactly the power they require. Big plus - they provide dimming!

So at night we can dim them down to almost off as a night light to prevent tripping, while using less battery power than the CO detector. When we need the light I run them all the way up and get more Lumens than the bulbs.

I figured out that if I turned on all the inside lights in the trailer before the conversion they'd consume 360 watts. This alone would drain my dual 6V batteries in about 7 hours. Doing the same thing after the conversion is more total light but only 50 watts. Really only about 20-30 watts because we rarely run them full brightness for very long.

It's really made out dry camping trips this summer stress free as we don't have a generator.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Here is a sight that will help you design any array of LED's Click here

Don't put LED's in parallel, not a good idea but series is OK and series parallel is OK if you include the resistors. All Leds must have a current limiting device like a resistor or a regulator circuit if you were to eliminate the resistor the LED would be a direct short and destroy itself. LED's are great devices and they get better every day.

I would really like to convert to LED's too.


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

Cheyenne said:


> Sorry for the late reply, we've been out campin'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you should have a work page on how to do this conversion step by step. Better yet, maybe you can sub contract yourself and sell us all the finished product. I have enough trouble just finding the time to wash and wax the OB, let alone diving into a project like this, although I really want to do it.


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## W4DRR (May 17, 2005)

I had worked up a couple of designs myself that would plug directly into the light socket. Even had the current sensing, switching regulator, just like those Recom "ballasts" that Cheyenne mentioned. I laid-out a PCB, and was ready to roll, but kept running into the same issue....it was just too darn expensive to justify. Each one would end it costing about $15-$20 each, in low quantities, and since we don't dry camp there was no real incentive. Those high-power LED's need to come down in cost a little more.

Bob


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## Cheyenne (Oct 15, 2007)

W4DRR said:


> I had worked up a couple of designs myself that would plug directly into the light socket. Even had the current sensing, switching regulator, just like those Recom "ballasts" that Cheyenne mentioned. I laid-out a PCB, and was ready to roll, but kept running into the same issue....it was just too darn expensive to justify. Each one would end it costing about $15-$20 each, in low quantities, and since we don't dry camp there was no real incentive. Those high-power LED's need to come down in cost a little more.
> 
> Bob


I hear you about the costs. I've always been interested in "off grid" living (disconnecting from the power company and making your own electricity with solar, wind etc). Since the cost of going "off grid" for the house was so far out of the question it was laughable, I figured I'd start smaller. When we got the trailer, it was a perfect excuse to "test" some ideas. When we learned how much we like dry camping, I was even able to justify the expense.

Actually, like W4DRR, I designed an inexpensive board that plugs in where the bulb used to be for the bedrooms and bathroom - that's 7 fixtures worth. (W4DRR - I got lazy and used a simple linear current regulator that ends up dropping about 3 volts. I justified the efficiency waste as these lights are not used for long periods, and they only run at about 2 watts total).

For the main cabin lights, I got the Recom LED "Ballasts" to save time and provide dimming. I had spent a lot of time gutting and refitting the main cabin fixtures for LEDs and making 7 fixtures worth of circuit boards. At that point we were days from our first Spring voyage and I had a big time crunch!! I posted a photo gallery of the circuit boards and maybe a schematic - search for our posts. The photos are in a Picasa album linked to the post.

I did get a very good deal on the high power LEDs from Future Electronics. They ended up costing about $12 per main cabin fixture. For the bunk house and bath lights I got a steal on some Avago LEDs but don't like them as much as the Cree LEDs and my wife has asked me to replace them "with the good ones"







.

Really the expense was mostly my time. But now my trialer has very "green" lighting technology, and I'm looking for cheap used solar panels!! (please excuse the Diesel I burn to haul my green trailer around





















)

When October rolls around and the camper must be stored for the long winter again, I'll put together a web page on the project for those interested in a Winter project. It's the Winter projects that help me pass the time till we go campin' again!


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## outback loft (Sep 22, 2008)

check this site out, they have almost everything you could need for led conversions LEDS


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## W4DRR (May 17, 2005)

outback loft said:


> check this site out, they have almost everything you could need for led conversions LEDS


Been there, done that. I keep an eye on Superbrightled site for any new products. Still the only thing they have are the square boards that must be affixed with double-sticky tape, and a flying lead plug-in. Though, they do now offer a 6-LED plug-in that looks like it is primarily intended for landscape lighting as it projects light 360 degrees. A trailer only needs 180 degrees, facing downward. But, it would probably work...just a little dim. Afterall, the existing 921 bulbs project light in 360 degrees, but I believe they are something like 60-100 lumens each.
Here is another site I ran across that has plug-ins that look more promising. But at a price.
Clicky Here

Bob


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

I'm lucky if I can remember which switch turns our porch light on.......


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## pfish (Jul 7, 2004)

There are 3 or 4 lower wattage bulbs that can be installed in the light sockets. This will lower your power usage a bunch. This is much lower cost than the LEDs. I did this and the amp discharge rate went down more than 1/2 with normal light usage. I changed out all of the bulbs. You can do a lot by using only the lights that you need. You can also pull out one bulb in the dual bulb lights.


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