# Lakeshore & Holman Rv



## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

For those of you who have purchased from either Lakeshore or Holman's ... do they negotiate their prices? Also, do they take trades and, if so, how does that work?

*Eric - HEADS UP!!!!* CI/Kingston told us yesterday that they are about to drop the Outback line. Rationale was shaky, at best, and Sales Manager was a bit ...uh ... flaky .... but thought I'd let you know what's in the air


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## hautevue (Mar 8, 2009)

I bought my 268RL from Holman--the price of a smidge under $19,000 was not negotiable, but it was $6500 under any other firm price I could find (and I truly looked). They gave me the price, and said that I could check anywhere and I'd find that they were really the lowest. They were right.

I did not have a trade (we're newbies) so that issue did not come up.

I drove the 500 miles each way from Baltimore to suburban Cincinnati to pick it up and got several benefits:

1. I saved a $1000 shipping/delivery charge
2. I personally was there for the Pre-Delivery Inspection and picked their brains unmercifully to learn as much as I could.
3. They encouraged us to camp overnight "up against the fence" where they had power. Water was not an issue since they put 25 gallons in the fresh tank. We did and really checked out everything inside. Worth the extra day away from work.
4. I got to drive it 500 miles back to Baltimore on Interstates, regular roads and so forth. Learned a lot. Of course, backing it in to our driveway at home was exciting! We also got sideways looks from the neighbors ("Wow! what a huge trailer. Where are you going to store it?").

Holman did a good job on the paperwork--I bought it in February, paid for it, and then picked it up in April when the weather would be less likely to snow, ice over, etc. We registered it here and took the plate with us to PDI where they mounted it. After we left the next day, I pulled into a Wal-Mart parking lot and took off the Holman license plate frame and installed the new Outbacker's frame that says "Art, Betsy and Oliver the Pooch" on it. That made us feel that it was now OURS!


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

If you go to Lakeshore (which I recommend) arrive on a Sunday, as they are closed, This gives you the entire day to inspect and live in the Outback. Then come Monday morning you will be rested and you'll have a jump start on the PDI.


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

I was able to successfully negotiate the "already low" price at Lakeshore. It was not easy to get the deal done. Their prices are already very, very low so getting them to come down more was not easy at all. I had to agree to two specific terms to get the deal. The answer is always "no" unless you ask. Good luck









Curtis


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Lakeshore policy on trade in, is whole sale price. This will be significantly lower then you selling it privately. The prices on buying are typically so low that I could not imagine much chance for a price reduction.


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## 5th Time Around (Jul 8, 2008)

Before we bought our 07 31kfw, we inquired about trading in our old TT on the used & new 31kfw from Lakeshore. I was given such a low ball on trade in, that in the end, the local dealer had called Keystone to find out if Lakeshore was really selling campers at that price (they were told yes), so they played with the numbers and it was within $1000 - $1500. Yeah we paid more, but we didn't drive from FL to MI, take time off from work, and we spent the entire 4th of July weekend in the large (and empty) delivery campground at our dealer (LazyDays).


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

We sold our old camper locally, so we didnt have to deal with the trade in. We priced it well, so it would go and not be hanging around. When we called lakeshore, we spoke with (i think) Jim... He's not there anymore, but I know Marci is still kicking around. On the second day, he told us the price on our RQS was $19,900- no haggling. Where as I had Campers Inn (in Mass) already give my a price of 27K, I kept thinking something was wrong. There was a mess up on thier listings, and subsequently had sold thier last 2006 and did not have an 07, until 2 months later. because they messed up, we got the 07 for the 06 price. I kept expecting the second boot to drop, to get hit with some hidden cost I wasn't prepared for. It didn't happen. The only thing we paid for beyond the RQS, was a side slide awning. We walked away with a bottom price of 21K, with delivery to the Cape Cod Canal, where we did the PDI with Duane, the delivery man. If there was a problem, they were prepared to drive her back to MI (which makes me think they go over the delivered trailers with a fine tooth comb).
We got the jist of the price through ebay, where the prices matched the phone call we placed.


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## Camping Fan (Dec 18, 2005)

When I was trailer shopping and ultimately decided on the Outback 27RSDS, I got down to Lakeshore and another mid-Michigan dealer. Lakeshore's price for the 27RSDS was $1000-1500 lower than the other dealer. The other dealer offered $1000-1500 more on trade-in. Final cost was a wash either way, and Lakeshore had a 27RSDS on the lot whereas the other dealer had just ordered a few that wouldn't have arrived for another 5-6 weeks. I bought from Lakeshore and promptly took it to Florida to visit the snow-birding parents.

I recall reading a comment from someone in the past that Lakeshore didn't do trade-ins, but the salesman (Hunter at the time) asked if I had a trade-in and they had no problem doing one with my deal. My trade-in trailer was paid off so there was no need to deal with a bank on a loan balance, don't know if that makes any difference to them or not.


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## forceten (Nov 14, 2008)

Lakeshore already was priced $7,000 less then my local dealer in NJ. They budged slightly on the price since we were so far away (3 days round trip and I think like 1700 miles) and had cash. What they did do though was offer all kind of add ons at their cost. And I checked to see if it was really their cost and everything they did was half price or more compared to if i paid full price or from another dealer.

They put on a 5th wheel hitch and prodigy break controller free install for me. Paid I think $500 for both installed. The scotchguarded everything for I think $200

They put on a class three hitch for me i think was $200 installed, Gave me all kinds of free supplies and talked me into a slidout awning for I think $300.

Added to the price a bit but since they were such good bargains I didn't mind.

Deal came with two flat screen tv's too. One bedroom and one large on in the livingroom.

So if they won't budge on price ask lakeshore about some add ons for cheaper then they have listed.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

I really don't know what the big deal is with Lakeshore, the farther away you are the worst it is. I got my trailer $800 cheaper than what they could ship one to me. The other problem is if you don't live close to them then you will have a hard time getting warrenty work done and if you do find someone to do the warrenty work I doubt they would do as good a job as the dealer who you bought it from would.

Im not surpised that thye might drop the Outback line, since Outback dropped so many models and stopped doing the one thing that set them apart from the SOB's, stopped making the white interor. Now they are like the rest of the trailers on the market Dark.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Whoever you talked to about keystone dropping the outback line is just flat wrong.

The outback line will become the no.1 rv sold in america next year.

I am sitting in Goshen, In., right beside the Outback factory as we speak. They have hundreds parked there and prolly a good 50 sitting in my yard about 100 feet from me..

The outback line is in no way about to be let go.

Rumors are in the air like crazy in this economy. If I told you guys all the rumors ive heard in the last year, we wouldnt even have a single rv mfr left.. Your source is full of bs.

Carey


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Whoever you talked to about keystone dropping the outback line is just flat wrong.
> 
> The outback line will become the no.1 rv sold in america next year.
> 
> ...


No, No Carey - you misunderstood!!! Our _DEALER_ is going to drop the line .... NOT Keystone!!

Bill - none of those were cited as reasons. In fact, contrary to those of us who have lived with it and LOVE it, 3 dealers told us this weekend that many people steer away from the white cabinets (still in several brands) because of fear of how dirty they'll get.


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## Camping Fan (Dec 18, 2005)

Wolfwood


> CI/Kingston told us yesterday that they are about to drop the Outback line. Rationale was shaky, at best, and Sales Manager was a bit ...uh ... flaky .... but thought I'd let you know what's in the air mad.gif





Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Whoever you talked to about keystone dropping the outback line is just flat wrong.
> 
> The outback line will become the no.1 rv sold in america next year.
> 
> ...


I think Wolfie was saying their local dealer is dropping the Outback line, not Keystone.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Oh ok.. lol

Well never know.. there are so many rumors flying right now its just stupid.

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Since many dealers were financing there floor inventory before and now few can, and if the dealers arent ordering trailers the mfrs are pulling there agreement contracts like crazy. The mfrs could really care a less about there dealers money problems.

I think this winter we will see twice the numbers of dealers go out of biz as we did last winter.

There are a bunch of dealers that can pay COD for there floor inventory, and the mfrs are looking to move rv's. So they are pulling contracts without warning to the non ordering dealers and giving the contracts to the dealers who got the cash to still play the game.

The dealers are going thru a shake up like weve never seen. Its going to be a crazy winter. The strong will survive and the weak are heading for bankruptcy.

As far as the mfrs are concerned, its either order and keep there lot full, or the mfrs will find dealers who can.

Its a very cold biz since floating in the air right now. Dealers are playing all sorts of games with the mfrs right now, and they aint putting up with it. 
Carey


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

N7OQ said:


> *Im not surpised that thye might drop the Outback line*, since Outback dropped so many models and stopped doing the one thing that set them apart from the SOB's, stopped making the white interor. Now they are like the rest of the trailers on the market Dark.


Where did you hear this?


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Since many dealers were financing there floor inventory before and now few can, and if the dealers arent ordering trailers the mfrs are pulling there agreement contracts like crazy. The mfrs could really care a less about there dealers money problems.
> 
> I think this winter we will see twice the numbers of dealers go out of biz as we did last winter.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I wonder who dropped who....









Never trust a salesman, that's rule #1 (Apologies to all those in sales out there! Don't worry, I have plenty of rules about lawyers, etc







). I remember trailer shopping last fall 1-2 weeks after Pilgrim imploded. The salesman was telling me that he knew the owner of pilgrim and it would just be a couple days before everything was straightened out. He even denied that the plants were locked up... Of course what was he supposed to do, he had a lot full of Pigrim stock (still does actually...).


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

N7OQ said:


> The other problem is if you don't live close to them then you will have a hard time getting warrenty work done and if you do find someone to do the warrenty work I doubt they would do as good a job as the dealer who you bought it from would.


Warranty work, if covered is "paid" by the _company_, Keystone. Not the person who brought the trailer in. And if the work is not satisfactory, then the company will ultimatley hear about it- which may effect the ability of that dealer to do future warranty work on Keystone products. Other work, well you might sit on the sidelines. Just tell the service department you recently moved, and cant get back to your original dealer.


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## hautevue (Mar 8, 2009)

I concur with the floor plan problems.

Local RV dealer: (lots of models but not Keystone): has 3! units on his lot. His problem: each time he sells one, he pays off the floor plan loan and the bank will not lend him the bucks to buy another unit! He says he owes nothing to the bank except the floor plan loans on those three units. He simply can't get financing.

His solution--he's out of the new unit business, has turned much of his lot into RV Storage parking, and really works at the service business. Charlie's RV in suburban Baltimore has been in business for 30 or 40 years but the bank has killed him.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> The other problem is if you don't live close to them then you will have a hard time getting warrenty work done and if you do find someone to do the warrenty work I doubt they would do as good a job as the dealer who you bought it from would.


Warranty work, if covered is "paid" by the _company_, Keystone. Not the person who brought the trailer in. And if the work is not satisfactory, then the company will ultimatley hear about it- which may effect the ability of that dealer to do future warranty work on Keystone products. Other work, well you might sit on the sidelines. Just tell the service department you recently moved, and cant get back to your original dealer.
[/quote]

I have seen several posts here where dealers refused to do warrenty work for people who didn't buy from them or put them on a long waiting list. Its not like the auto industry. One of the problems is some times the dealer just doesn't make enough money to make it worth it, when I had my front cap replaced the dealer showed me what the dealer paid, they dictate how many hours it will take and only pay for that many hours. My dealer said it took him 2 men doing the same amount of hours the factory said One man could do it in. The factory has ideal conditions and not dealing with a trailer that had a cap stripped off of. Most likely some pencil pusher came up with the numbers. Anyway if I had bought my trailer from Lakeshore I would had a hard time finding a dealer here who would have done it.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

N7OQ said:


> The other problem is if you don't live close to them then you will have a hard time getting warrenty work done and if you do find someone to do the warrenty work I doubt they would do as good a job as the dealer who you bought it from would.


Warranty work, if covered is "paid" by the _company_, Keystone. Not the person who brought the trailer in. And if the work is not satisfactory, then the company will ultimatley hear about it- which may effect the ability of that dealer to do future warranty work on Keystone products. Other work, well you might sit on the sidelines. Just tell the service department you recently moved, and cant get back to your original dealer.
[/quote]

I have seen several posts here where dealers refused to do warrenty work for people who didn't buy from them or put them on a long waiting list. Its not like the auto industry. One of the problems is some times the dealer just doesn't make enough money to make it worth it, when I had my front cap replaced the dealer showed me what the dealer paid, they dictate how many hours it will take and only pay for that many hours. My dealer said it took him 2 men doing the same amount of hours the factory said One man could do it in. The factory has ideal conditions and not dealing with a trailer that had a cap stripped off of. Most likely some pencil pusher came up with the numbers. Anyway if I had bought my trailer from Lakeshore I would had a hard time finding a dealer here who would have done it.
[/quote]

For the >$7,000 I saved by going to Lakeshore, I'm fine with waiting in line (even at the back) if I ever had a warranty issue I had to take my Outback to the dealer for.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

N7OQ said:


> I have seen several posts here where dealers refused to do warrenty work for people who didn't buy from them or put them on a long waiting list. Its not like the auto industry. One of the problems is some times the dealer just doesn't make enough money to make it worth it, when I had my front cap replaced the dealer showed me what the dealer paid, they dictate how many hours it will take and only pay for that many hours. My dealer said it took him 2 men doing the same amount of hours the factory said One man could do it in. The factory has ideal conditions and not dealing with a trailer that had a cap stripped off of. Most likely some pencil pusher came up with the numbers. Anyway if I had bought my trailer from Lakeshore I would had a hard time finding a dealer here who would have done it.


Acutally, it's exactly like the auto industry in that respect. Auto manufacturers also tell dealers exactly how many hours they will be paid to make a change. Over the years both industries have been pulling back the time estimates to save money. I'm sure the OB'ers on here that work in dealer service could tell some stories...









I've never taken a trailer in for service, but I've also never been unfortunate enough to have a major issue such as delamination...


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

Oregon_Camper said:


> For the >$7,000 I saved by going to Lakeshore, I'm fine with waiting in line (even at the back) if I ever had a warranty issue I had to take my Outback to the dealer for.










Exactly.


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

Nathan said:


> Acutally, it's exactly like the auto industry in that respect. Auto manufacturers also tell dealers exactly how many hours they will be paid to make a change. Over the years both industries have been pulling back the time estimates to save money. I'm sure the OB'ers on here that work in dealer service could tell some stories...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had a 92 Ford Explorer that had a rear main leak (4.0) at 50 miles. dealer took the truck, and said- "no prob- covered by warranty". Dropped her off in the morning, picked it up that afternoon. I looked over the work manifest, I saw that ford authorized 2 men at 6 hours for the work. I asked one of the guys (that I know) how the job went, and he said it took the two of them about 90 minutes, as it was a simple "add on, on the tail of the driveshaft". over time I found that the dealer stacked all the warranty work on two days, then blasted through them all. The guys say the dealership makes it's most money on those days, because Ford is "gauranteed money" and they commonly "over-estimate" the time it takes for repairs.

I knew at some point they (Ford) was going to get wise and cinch up the loose ends.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> Acutally, it's exactly like the auto industry in that respect. Auto manufacturers also tell dealers exactly how many hours they will be paid to make a change. Over the years both industries have been pulling back the time estimates to save money. I'm sure the OB'ers on here that work in dealer service could tell some stories...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had a 92 Ford Explorer that had a rear main leak (4.0) at 50 miles. dealer took the truck, and said- "no prob- covered by warranty". Dropped her off in the morning, picked it up that afternoon. I looked over the work manifest, I saw that ford authorized 2 men at 6 hours for the work. I asked one of the guys (that I know) how the job went, and he said it took the two of them about 90 minutes, as it was a simple "add on, on the tail of the driveshaft". over time I found that the dealer stacked all the warranty work on two days, then blasted through them all. The guys say the dealership makes it's most money on those days, because Ford is "gauranteed money" and they commonly "over-estimate" the time it takes for repairs.

I knew at some point they (Ford) was going to get wise and cinch up the loose ends.
[/quote]
I have a friend who was a mechanic and said in the good old days you could bill twice the hours that you worked. 2 things happened. First quality improved vastly and the warranty work dried up. Second, the hours were getting reduced. He went back to school and found greener pastures.


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Oregon_Camper said:


> The other problem is if you don't live close to them then you will have a hard time getting warrenty work done and if you do find someone to do the warrenty work I doubt they would do as good a job as the dealer who you bought it from would.


Warranty work, if covered is "paid" by the _company_, Keystone. Not the person who brought the trailer in. And if the work is not satisfactory, then the company will ultimatley hear about it- which may effect the ability of that dealer to do future warranty work on Keystone products. Other work, well you might sit on the sidelines. Just tell the service department you recently moved, and cant get back to your original dealer.
[/quote]

I have seen several posts here where dealers refused to do warrenty work for people who didn't buy from them or put them on a long waiting list. Its not like the auto industry. One of the problems is some times the dealer just doesn't make enough money to make it worth it, when I had my front cap replaced the dealer showed me what the dealer paid, they dictate how many hours it will take and only pay for that many hours. My dealer said it took him 2 men doing the same amount of hours the factory said One man could do it in. The factory has ideal conditions and not dealing with a trailer that had a cap stripped off of. Most likely some pencil pusher came up with the numbers. Anyway if I had bought my trailer from Lakeshore I would had a hard time finding a dealer here who would have done it.
[/quote]

For the >$7,000 I saved by going to Lakeshore, I'm fine with waiting in line (even at the back) if I ever had a warranty issue I had to take my Outback to the dealer for.
[/quote]

I am with you OC - we saved $6k over the closest dealer (120mi.) and would add this. BEFORE we bought from Lakeshore, I called Keystone and found out who the authorized repair centers were around here. I then went to those dealers and told them what I was planning to do. One of them said "well we will work on your camper but you will be at the back of the line and subject to being bumped back at any time we choose for a customer that buys here. The other said "no problem, we take service work of all kinds".







Soon after, I followed the advice that I now give out to prospective Outback owners "call Lakeshore, ask for Marci".

After we creamed a deer with the Outback at 60mph - I had a chance to see if they lived up to what they said. I have now experienced service from that "service oriented dealer" and found what they said to be true. When I complimented them on this - with a big smile - he just said "well, that is how alot of people end up buying here".

-CC


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> For the >$7,000 I saved by going to Lakeshore, I'm fine with waiting in line (even at the back) if I ever had a warranty issue I had to take my Outback to the dealer for.










Exactly.
[/quote]

I saved $800 by not going to them and buying local and since I had to have the front cap replaced I can say I saved a lot more by buying local.


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)




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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

N7OQ said:


> For the >$7,000 I saved by going to Lakeshore, I'm fine with waiting in line (even at the back) if I ever had a warranty issue I had to take my Outback to the dealer for.










Exactly.
[/quote]

I saved $800 by not going to them and buying local and since I had to have the front cap replaced I can say I saved a lot more by buying local.
[/quote]

Glad to see we all got good deals.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Nathan said:


> I have seen several posts here where dealers refused to do warrenty work for people who didn't buy from them or put them on a long waiting list. Its not like the auto industry. One of the problems is some times the dealer just doesn't make enough money to make it worth it, when I had my front cap replaced the dealer showed me what the dealer paid, they dictate how many hours it will take and only pay for that many hours. My dealer said it took him 2 men doing the same amount of hours the factory said One man could do it in. The factory has ideal conditions and not dealing with a trailer that had a cap stripped off of. Most likely some pencil pusher came up with the numbers. Anyway if I had bought my trailer from Lakeshore I would had a hard time finding a dealer here who would have done it.


Acutally, it's exactly like the auto industry in that respect. Auto manufacturers also tell dealers exactly how many hours they will be paid to make a change. Over the years both industries have been pulling back the time estimates to save money. I'm sure the OB'ers on here that work in dealer service could tell some stories...









I've never taken a trailer in for service, but I've also never been unfortunate enough to have a major issue such as delamination...
[/quote]

I ment that it is not like the auto industry in the fact that RV dealers are not as willing to do work on trailers bought at different dealers like the auto industry is at doing warrenty work on auto bought at a different dealer.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

N7OQ said:


> I have seen several posts here where dealers refused to do warrenty work for people who didn't buy from them or put them on a long waiting list. Its not like the auto industry. One of the problems is some times the dealer just doesn't make enough money to make it worth it, when I had my front cap replaced the dealer showed me what the dealer paid, they dictate how many hours it will take and only pay for that many hours. My dealer said it took him 2 men doing the same amount of hours the factory said One man could do it in. The factory has ideal conditions and not dealing with a trailer that had a cap stripped off of. Most likely some pencil pusher came up with the numbers. Anyway if I had bought my trailer from Lakeshore I would had a hard time finding a dealer here who would have done it.


Acutally, it's exactly like the auto industry in that respect. Auto manufacturers also tell dealers exactly how many hours they will be paid to make a change. Over the years both industries have been pulling back the time estimates to save money. I'm sure the OB'ers on here that work in dealer service could tell some stories...









I've never taken a trailer in for service, but I've also never been unfortunate enough to have a major issue such as delamination...
[/quote]

I ment that it is not like the auto industry in the fact that RV dealers are not as willing to do work on trailers bought at different dealers like the auto industry is at doing warrenty work on auto bought at a different dealer.
[/quote]

Actually that is not True, it is just like Auto. Except it is not necessarily MFG specific but more Brand specific. I did have warranty work done and i took it to the closest dealer (5 miles away) that KEYSTONE told me would have to do the work. Keystone told me they may not want to do it, but if there was a problem to call them as they will do it................maybe it wasn't/isn't that way everywhere........but unless you haven't had the experience, do not believe everything you read or someone posts.

Believe me it was one of my concerns.......if i buy this trailer at a show where my local dealer wouldn't come close to the price.........would i still get service........ in their price quote they were explaining the service i would get buying from them. At the Hershey show that i bought at, that dealer was there but did not have the "show Rights" to sell the outback at the show.....and they told me that they couldn't get close to that price (was within 500.00 OF Lakeshore)..............so i went with it and went to that dealer for warranty work.............and got fabulous service. I went in February when i knew they would be slow and to be courteous and bought a couple of "Add Ons" from them while there.............they asked why where i bought from, explained the whole thing, the said they still probably couldn't match the price, but they would work hard on giving me great service and would try to work toward the next sale.

I think a lot of it is in how you approach it........if you show you care and go out of your way to help them in scheduling............ they will work with you....

I think if you go in arrogant that you bought it somewhere else and flaunt it in their face.....they will tell you to pound sand.

My 2 cents


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

N7OQ said:


> ....
> I ment that it is not like the auto industry in the fact that RV dealers are not as willing to do work on trailers bought at different dealers like the auto industry is at doing warrenty work on auto bought at a different dealer.


I agree, trailer dealerships are not the same as car dealerships and are more likely to not be helpful in service. However even car dealerships often treat their own customers differently than ones who just want service (i.e. loaner cars, discounted maintenance, etc...).


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