# Dry Weights, True Or False



## HaulinBass02 (Jan 6, 2005)

Who believes that the dry weights printed on the sticker on the trailer are actually true? Having read more posts than I care to see about people buying trailers and being misled by dealers into believing the printed dry weight is actually what the trailer weighs at delivery time, I feel compelled to share what little knowledge I have and hope that someone will agree with me and help educate others.

I read a recent post on another site about a guy buying a trailer that he was told by the dealer was okay for his truck to tow. After towing it home and burning up his tranny, he found the trailer weighed much more than what the sticker stated.

Please don't let this happen to you. My dealer, who is very reputable, and actually loses money by telling people this, has stressed to me and others, that the dry weight is the trailer weighed empty, WITH NO OPTIONS. Add awning, TV's, LP tanks, batteries, etc and that weight can go up very quickly.

My dad is another example, he has a towing company, and for test sake, weighed two identical trailers. They were only optioned slightly differently, (nothing that could affect weight) both had different weights and neither weight was even close to the stickered dry weight.

Please don't let the dealer sucker you in to thinking that you can tow it. Look for the GVWR on the trailer. When you max load the trailer out, (tanks full, LP full, batteries, all options, personal gear, etc) that is what it should weigh. If that is more than what you can safely tow with your vehicle, than please, find another trailer within that safe weight limit.

I would hate to see a member here get stuck with a trailer because the dealer misled them. I would also hate to see, as I already see more of (police officer), any member in an accident due to an unsafe weight condition.

If you are in an accident and the police and or insurance finds you vehicle and or trailer were overloaded and that was a contributing factor to the accident, YOU ARE LIABLE and they don't have to pay a dime.

Please members, think what you like. I just hate reading that someone else has more trailer than what they thought and it is more than the Tow Vehicle can handle.

Please, this is just for education purposes and can be taken with a grain of salt. If you don't believe me though, go on this site and the other sites and read how many people were taken for by a dealer and told that the dry weight was what the trailer weighed, sitting there in front of them, and then driving off with more trailer than what was wanted. 
Thanks for listening.


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

HaulingBass02...

My dealer also told me that the sticker from Keystone was so far off that they dont even brief it anymore... they simply tell you that you need to have -- for the 23RS -- at a minimal -- a capability to tow 6000....

Have you been to FunTimeRV in Cleburne (near Ft Worth)???

That is where I bought my trailer from ... so far -- of all the RVs I have had -- of all the delaers that I have dealt with -- and of all the bst prices I have got -- FunTimeRV was the VERY VERY Best by far then anyone...


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

I agree with you that you are ultimately responsible for the knowing the weight of your trailer. But, I would also think Keystone should bear some responsibility regarding the weight if there stickers are wrong. They give you a net weight and then they add options to it. They do not sell the trailer at all in net weight configuration and do not tell you what it actually weighs the only way you can order it. I have no interest in testing this in court for sure, so for your own safety, yes, you are responsible for knowing the weight of your unit as you are driving it.


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## 1stTimeAround (Sep 22, 2004)

BEEN THERE, DONE THAT!!

Was told, sure no problem, your Toyota can pull that 28RSS, only to find out the the truck and trailer together, without kids or ANY stuff (dishes, tv, full fridge, clothes, fishing gear, dog, etc) was only 20 pounds from my GCWR.

The funny thing is, I called the RV dealer, the Toyota dealer and they both were saying, "Oh go ahead and pull it, that truck is tough. It can handle the heavy load." My insurer I'm sure would have stated differently, as did Toyota Factory personnel when I called them. Toyota says," It is the recommendation of Toyota manufacturing that you do not exceed the GCWR of your vehicle. In the event of an accident or damage to your vehicle as a result of towing to heavy, your warranty will not be honored." Just too risky!!

Live and learn, I really am not bitter about it anymore! I love my camper and would have constantly regretted down grading to a smaller one. Love my new Dodge Cummins HD and still got to keep the Tundra, the best driving truck on the market, in my opinion!! Where's that Toyota Diesel when you needed it!!

I will know better next time I go to purchase a camper! And now I have the truck to pull near any of them!!

Jason


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

I too was burned by getting too much trailer for too little truck, but it was my own undoing and not my dealer's. It was totally my decision. I knew what my tv specs were and I calculated what I could haul. I was inexperienced and did not fully research the subject (I admire those who do). I went in search of an rv which met my calculated load limits. I relied on the sticker data in the rv and that just wasn't good enough. However, I do believe that Keystone and other manufacturers do attempt a good faith effort at accurately reflecting the weight of the trailer -- at least, as a starting point. There are just so many variables involved that it is really difficult to state anything categorically without actual weights under actual conditions, that is, weighed with all of your stuff in your trailer placed in the manner that you generally expect to place it.

Many people on the forum have stated that you should get a rig that is 75% or less of your GCWR. That's probably a good rule of thumb. But you can't forget about all the other weights either. Your GVWR and rear GAWR also play an important part and just because your GCWR is good, doesn't mean your GVWR will also be good. If you are over on any of your weight ratings, you are illegal.

How much fluids you carry and where the fluid tanks are placed, plays a big role in balancing out to make a legal load. If your fresh water is full of 30 gallons (240 pounds) and if the fresh water tank is behind the trailer axle, then it could take a significant amount of weight off your hitch. On the other hand, if your black and grey water tanks are full and your fresh empty (as in a return trip from camping), then the converse is true and you could have a lot more tongue weight.

Best advise is to visit the scales often and have a pretty good feel for what it should weigh. The guys at my local state highway weigh station now know my rig by sight. I'll bet I ran across it a dozen times before I decided that my '97 F-250 just wasn't going to hack it. That's why I now have the Cummins 1-ton. And, the 1-ton has now been weighed another dozen time. It cost me $34k to make that change, but it's sure a lot cheaper than a lawsuit.


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## HaulinBass02 (Jan 6, 2005)

Good responses. At the very least, all the manufacturers should put somewhere in the papers or on the sticker or in a brochure, where the consumer should be able to read plainly, that the dry weight is only an baseline and then explain why that is so. I actually just checked and Outback's brochure says to check the actual trailer for dry weights with options. Are they weighing them off the line now?

I am of the mindset that all the manufacturers should weigh each trailer as it rolls off the line and put that exact configuration weight on the sticker. That is a whole lot better than picking up a trailer that weighs almost a thousand pounds more as optioned. It would get rid of a lot of guesswork on the consumer's end and there would probably be less of the consumer getting a raw deal on too much trailer from a shady dealer.

Consumer bears the biggest responsibility because in the end, it all comes down to the question of, how much research did you do? Or did you just trust what some shady salesman told you.

Ghosty- Funtime is where we plan to buy our trailer from. Our salesman told us not to trust any of the dry weights given by any manufacturer. He said you can generally tell about how much weight is added on by looking at the "standard features" sheet, then comparing to see how many options were added on.

The main number anyone should be looking at is the GVWR. I see so many people working the numbers the wrong way IMHO. A lot of people I have talked to work their way up from the dry weight instead of down from the GVWR. If you try to tell yourself you will only put X amount in your trailer, trusting the dry weight to be actual weight of the trailer, all to try and keep it under your tow rating, you are only kidding yourself. If you can tow the trailer using the GVWR as your max weight under any situation you are a lot safer than trying to watch what you load.

If you have been RVing for any length of time you know how much stuff you can accumulate, either neccessity or just for comfort value. Working up from dry might work for a while, but eventually you will get lax and start throwing stuff in and you find yourself over gross.

If there are any doubts as to how much the trailer weighs or as to how close you will be to your tow vehicle's gross combined weight, you need to stop and do more research. Have the trailer weighed, ask around to see if anyone has weighed the trailer. It is a whole lot better to be safe than sorry.

Once again, this is meant only for education purposes and like anything on this site, is purely objectionable. These are my thoughts and the thoughts of those who post here. But please be the responsible consumer and know what you are getting into and don't trust everything the dealer tells you. If they can't give you more appropriate numbers or sound like they are just telling you yes so they can get the sale, back off and ask around.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

They tell you to add the weight of the options but leave you to figure out how heavy they all are. I like that idea, scale when built. Around northern N J scales are hard to come by and the ones that are around are busy and do not like you spending time unhooking and hooking. The truck stops on the interstates outside of my area are sooo different. I scaled in Wyoming once and it was a pleasure.

This site and the people are more informed than any dealer I have seen. I had to laugh when I picked up my trailer, they inspected my set up, told me it was OK. Hooked up and set up the unit with my TV and then had me sign a waiver that they are not responsible for the hitch because they did not sell it new to me. That tells you that no one is responsible but YOU.


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## Swanie (Oct 25, 2004)

Makes me feel good that we went with the 21rs -- not the max of my tow vehicle. This is also a good warning about packing -- keep it light or get a different tow vehicle!

I really appreciate this web site. Everybody has something valuable to say.


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## Jacko (Feb 14, 2005)

Outbackers
A lot of good info for new buyers, I was told by my saleman my Tahoe would tow the 28 BHS with no problems, but he was wrong. It towed it, but I felt we were in danger everytime we took a trip. The trailer was too long for the short wheel base of the tahoe which had the 3:42 rear end, and the 5.3 engine. I have since purchased a 05 Chevy 2500 HD with 4:11 and 6.0 engine. It gets the job done with very little effort. I"m glad I was able to work it in and as a result trips are more relaxing. I would encourage everyone to research their TV/dry/trailer weights, etc and research some more, and finally reasearch more before buying.

The dealers are interested in selling and not much more. (I'm sure there are some good dealers out there) I think ours was not really considering our safety--just the sale. I ask him over 4 times do we have too much trailer for our truck? I finally went back and told him he gave us bad info, and I would tell everyone I could when given the chance. I'm currently drafting a letter to send to their corporate office to let them know what is going on here in Florida. I will keep you folks in the loop.

Anyway this web site is very helpful to all, and I am grateful to all who have made it possible. I believe the site could very well save lives.

Jacko


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

Jacko,

Good choice on the truck! See our sig!!

Our dealer was reluctant to sell us the 21RS with our Explorer as a TV. Although, we were within the "numbers" we were well above the 75%-80% rule. I could not sleep at night, so I found a new TV. We really did not want the extra expense, but I did not want to kill the DW's shuttle as well and as vdub said it was cheaper than a lawsuit!

Just my $.02

Tim


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

Jacko said:


> I'm currently drafting a letter to send to their corporate office to let them know what is going on here in Florida. I will keep you folks in the loop.
> 
> Jacko
> [snapback]35985[/snapback]​


And here is what Corporate will hear -- BLAH BLAH BLAH $$$$$$$$ BLAH BLAH BLAH









And if they call the salesman in question his side of the story wil be : BLAH BLAH BLAH "I warned them that they couldnt tow with the Tahoe and they got upset" BLAH BLAH BLAH.. (if the guyis going to lie to you to make a sale he is going to lie to corporate to keep a job) - and anyway they're all independant dealers so not much Keystone is going to do since they ARE making money for them....

Just my .02c

and always keep the words of my dealer in the back of your mind -- he said jokingly when I asked if my Xterra could tow the 23RS -- "HELL - A RIDING LAWNMOWER CAN TOW A TRAILER -- IT JUST DEPENDS ON HOW FAR YOU WANT TO GO AND HOW FAST YOU NEED TO GET THERE!!!"

Right after that I bought me a new truck....


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Hey, if you got a new truck, Ghosty, can I have your riding lawn mower?


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

Actually I use the Riding LawnMower to tow the Boat now...


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## vacamper (Apr 11, 2005)

Interesting string of emails. My thoughts. I don't think it's fair to expect TT Dealers to provide info on what my TV can tow or cannot safely tow. They didn't sell it to me, they have no way of knowing what modifications were made or how it was maintained.

However, I do expect them to provide accurate information about the products they are responsible for...the TT!. I'm not an attorney, but if the weights posted and provided to the consumer are grossly inaccurate and this leads to an unfortunate incident, I have no doubt that both the dealer and manufacturer will be found legally responsible. All I can rationalize is that this really isn't the case, or it would have already been tested in the courts.

vacamper


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

Yes and no.......There is some sort of responsibility that comes with the territory.

We had a dealer try to sell us a 30' Wildwood TT and he told us that we COULD pull it with our 2004 V6 Ford Explorer.







No amount of mods would enable the "Exploder" to pull that trailer.









Every RV brochure that I have looked at has a disclaimer statement. That statement says that weights are provided as a guideline only and each TT is different. I have seen it worded several different ways, but it is there and is essentially an indemnification clause.

In this very litigious world that we live in it is only a matter of time. There are some real honest sales people out there and there are some who are just looking to make a quick buck. (I am not trying to bash any sales people)

The moral of the story is buyer beware!















IMHO,

Tim


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