# Is This A Good Deal?



## wicandthing (Jul 11, 2005)

I have never been in the market for anything larger than a 1/2 ton prior to now. So I would like some opinions on the vehicle listed below. My main interest is in durability, is this too many miles for a diesel that age, etc.. Any major problems with that setup over the years, etc.. What is the expected lifespan of that engine?

It will be more than enough to tow my trailer, but I figure I might as well get enough in case I ever upgrade the TT or go with a 5'er.

2001 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4
Quad cab, Cummins diesel automatic, 4x4
White, Leather, Laramie SLT
Aux. fuel tank
119k miles

Thanks!


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## aplvlykat (Jan 25, 2004)

At 119k miles over a five year period it works out somewhere in the nieghborhood of 23k per year, seems a little high but then again for a deisel I think it is just getting broke in. If treated and maintained right it should go 250K+. Around here trucks are getting to be very plentiful and the price has come down alot. Depending on the price you may want to look around somemore for one with a little less miles. Has this truck been used to pull another TT or 5er before? Kirk


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## wicandthing (Jul 11, 2005)

aplvlykat said:


> At 119k miles over a five year period it works out somewhere in the nieghborhood of 23k per year, seems a little high but then again for a deisel I think it is just getting broke in. If treated and maintained right it should go 250K+. Around here trucks are getting to be very plentiful and the price has come down alot. Depending on the price you may want to look around somemore for one with a little less miles. Has this truck been used to pull another TT or 5er before? Kirk
> [snapback]71786[/snapback]​


I am planning on asking that same question myself when I talk to them again. I see you have the vortec. How does it do with your trailer? I'm wondering if I need to pay the premium for a diesel?


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Unless you put a lot of miles on just as fast 119 is not to bad for a well maintained truck. Look on Yahoo auto s for comparisons and prices. I look every week to see what prices are and what is in my area as I am looking for a GM 3500 Dually. E Bay is also good for that.

John


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Oh my favorite subject Dodge Diesels. The mileage is fine, that Cummins engine hasnâ€™t even been broken in yet, if maintained you can easily get 500k out of the engine before rebuild. The downside to the Cummins is Lift pump (low pressure puller pump) and Injection Pump or VP44 high pressure pump to the injectors. The engine itself will run for years but these 2 pumps donâ€™t. The lift pump is only about $140 to replace yourself but that VP44 is $1600 for parts only and youâ€™ll more than likely have it in the shop for a $2000 cost. The main thing to watch on the engine is the fuel pressure, if the truck doesnâ€™t have a fuel pressure gauge you HAVE to install one. You can save the expensive VP44 if you watch the fuel pressure and never let it drop below ~5psi. What mods have been done to the truck, has it been chipped new injectors etc. What about the trannies, the autos are the weak point in the Dodge lineup but not a show stopper. Without starting brand wars you want a Ford chassis, with a Chevy auto and the Dodge engine.

Youâ€™re smart for asking before you buy and it looks like youâ€™re going to be buying used so with that said the Ford 6.0 came out in early 03 and it has a nasty reputation for loosing turbos, injectors and alternators, some are running strong with no problems but please research the 6.0 before you buy. The previous 7.3 diesel engine was just about bullet proof. The Chevy combo has been good as well, normal problems like oil leaks, nothing major. The Dodge I covered above. There was a comparison between the big 3 just a few months ago, all pulling the same load up a grade. The dodge was off the line before the other two but then the Ford and Chevy passed the dodge, all 3 were dang close at the end so there is good power in all 3. I spent countless hours researching the big 3 for our new TV and ended up with the Dodge Cummins Auto. Itâ€™s been fine but I am going to be replacing the LP very soon.

If you would like some websites for Dodge, Chevy and Ford just ask and Iâ€™ll post them up.

Good luck on your search.

Bill.


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

wicandthing,

Paper today here in Abilene......02 Dodge 3500 4X4, Cummins, Dually, 6 speed, $16995; 03 Dodge 3500 Quad cab, Shortbed, Cummins, Laramie $25,900; 04 Dodge 3500 SLT 4X4 Cummins Quad $28,888. These anywhwere near the price you were quoted?

Good luck in your search.

Mark


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Oh ya, one more thing on the dodge, in '01.5 the rear brakes were changed to disk instead of drum. You want disk in the rear.

Bill.


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## wicandthing (Jul 11, 2005)

mswalt said:


> wicandthing,
> 
> Paper today here in Abilene......02 Dodge 3500 4X4, Cummins, Dually, 6 speed, $16995; 03 Dodge 3500 Quad cab, Shortbed, Cummins, Laramie $25,900; 04 Dodge 3500 SLT 4X4 Cummins Quad $28,888. These anywhwere near the price you were quoted?
> 
> ...


The window price was $18990. I haven't tried to negotiate any, however.


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## wicandthing (Jul 11, 2005)

2500Ram said:


> Oh my favorite subject Dodge Diesels. The mileage is fine, that Cummins engine hasnâ€™t even been broken in yet, if maintained you can easily get 500k out of the engine before rebuild. The downside to the Cummins is Lift pump (low pressure puller pump) and Injection Pump or VP44 high pressure pump to the injectors. The engine itself will run for years but these 2 pumps donâ€™t. The lift pump is only about $140 to replace yourself but that VP44 is $1600 for parts only and youâ€™ll more than likely have it in the shop for a $2000 cost. The main thing to watch on the engine is the fuel pressure, if the truck doesnâ€™t have a fuel pressure gauge you HAVE to install one. You can save the expensive VP44 if you watch the fuel pressure and never let it drop below ~5psi. What mods have been done to the truck, has it been chipped new injectors etc. What about the trannies, the autos are the weak point in the Dodge lineup but not a show stopper. Without starting brand wars you want a Ford chassis, with a Chevy auto and the Dodge engine.
> 
> Youâ€™re smart for asking before you buy and it looks like youâ€™re going to be buying used so with that said the Ford 6.0 came out in early 03 and it has a nasty reputation for loosing turbos, injectors and alternators, some are running strong with no problems but please research the 6.0 before you buy. The previous 7.3 diesel engine was just about bullet proof. The Chevy combo has been good as well, normal problems like oil leaks, nothing major. The Dodge I covered above. There was a comparison between the big 3 just a few months ago, all pulling the same load up a grade. The dodge was off the line before the other two but then the Ford and Chevy passed the dodge, all 3 were dang close at the end so there is good power in all 3. I spent countless hours researching the big 3 for our new TV and ended up with the Dodge Cummins Auto. Itâ€™s been fine but I am going to be replacing the LP very soon.
> 
> ...


So, do the other brands have similar issues with pumps or other parts?


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

wicandthing said:


> So, do the other brands have similar issues with pumps or other parts?
> [snapback]71811[/snapback]​


Not with pumps but yes other parts. Diesels are just like anything else, if taken care of you will have many trouble free miles from any of the big 3. I don't want to scare you away from the Dodge, it is a great TV you just have to know about the LP and watch your fuel pressure. To me spending $140 every other year or so replacing a LP on the Dodge makes more sence than the other brands unless your going new than I would suggest the Chevy or Mega Cab from dodge. I don't want to get into the Fords now, there are TONS of them on the road and you only really hear the bad on the internet not the good but that seems to stick out most. Ford is coming out with a new 6.4L diesel to fix the "problems" with the 6.0L (Please Ford fans this is not personal experience, a slam twards your trucks, or anything malice just lots of internet reading, putting on flame suit). Again in Stock form any diesle is going to last for years but the potential for more power is so cheap that's what starts to wear things out.

Bill.


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## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

The dodge diesels seem to perform well, relative has an 00 2500 dodge he uses for everything, towing trackor and mostly long distance driving. He uses it as a daily driver but makes several trips to maryland and florida each year. He has better than 150K now and has had no problems to speak of. He feels it is just broken in.


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

I have read that the first Duramax diesels had problems with fuel injectors leaking, with engine oil getting badly diluted. Those injectors are under the valve covers. My understanding is that the big difference in the new LLY engine is the correction of that problem.

I am not knowledgable about this...but I would talk to someone who actually is knowledgable (as opposed to someone who simply thinks they are). Find out if this is something to be avoided. Good luck.

Bill


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

cookie/Bill brings up a good point. I can only comment on the Dodge Cummins with real life experience.

Last thing to watch for on the Ram is an engine casting number 53 know as a "53 block" this block was manufactured from somewhere between '98.5 and '01, and is known to crack weaping antifreeze, meaning new block $$$. If you see a 53 on the engine block normally found on the drivers side front, some rare occurances on the passenger side I would look at a different truck. Not all Rams were built with this block during the same years so some have them, some don't.

Bill.


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## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

2500Ram said:


> wicandthing said:
> 
> 
> > So, do the other brands have similar issues with pumps or other parts?
> ...


Ford bashing again huh? Let's chain them together.







Just kidding. In my research you are correct in the '03 6.0L problems. My uncle works for a Ford dealer which is how I ended up with one anyway. He claims the new engine is to satisfiy complaints from long term customers that were use to the 7.3L and they had gotten the bugs worked out in the models from '04 on. We'll see. Mine only has about 9k so far so I can't preach about how long it will last. For now I have the 100k warranty and a very comfortable truck. No chips or aftermarket performance products for me until I get out of warranty. They supposedly can tell even if you program back to specs before warranty work.


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Nope, every vehicle I've owned before the Dodge was a Ford. Well there was a Honda CRX when I was 16 but that shouldn't count, my parents bought it. I spent some time just now on thedieselstop and you are correct on improving the motor after 03 so I take back some but not all of the comments on the Fords.

clicky



> Quality costs at Ford rise $500 million
> 
> Troubles with '04 models contribute to 3rd-quarter loss; firm vows improvement.





> The rising quality costs stem largely from increased warranty expenses for 2004 models, including a trouble-plagued diesel engine for heavy-duty trucks.





> "Ford's been inching up -- not down" in terms of warranty costs, said Ronald Tadross, auto analyst for Banc of America Securities.


Bill


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## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

2500Ram said:


> Nope, every vehicle I've owned before the Dodge was a Ford. Well there was a Honda CRX when I was 16 but that shouldn't count, my parents bought it. I spent some time just now on thedieselstop and you are correct on improving the motor after 03 so I take back some but not all of the comments on the Fords.
> 
> clicky
> 
> ...


Alright you got my attention. What about the '05?


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

nascarcamper said:


> Alright you got my attention. What about the '05?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How much more do you want? I can dig up allot more but just read http://thedieselstop.com under the 6.0L section. There are plenty of other sites with very similar results on the 6.0L

I'm not trying to bash anyone's $45,000 truck I just want to help those looking and comparing. Every brand has flaws but Ford is on top with this engine period.

Bill.


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## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

2500Ram said:


> nascarcamper said:
> 
> 
> > Alright you got my attention. What about the '05?
> ...


I think the biggest issue here is the number of fords versus dodges on the road and the fact there is a much larger website of ford users. Kinda like Outbackers vs Gulfbreezers. You're right in the sense they all have their problems and I've never been a ford fan but it was the best bang for my buck period. I talked with several dodge owners before buying and their late model trucks were giving them tons of problems including but not limited to very poor fuel mileage. Fuel mileage was a major factor in my decision. The local contractors , several of which switched to ford, claim the dodge couldn't get it done for them. The duramax guys were all happy and still driving theirs. I'd have gone that route but they couldn't get where I wanted to be on price. As far as the warranty costs go the explorer is a major player in that. I've had mine in the shop 15 times and finally just gave up. Ford finally gave me the top extended warranty and as soon as it's out she's a goner. I still haven't seen the 03 and 04 problems carry over to the 05 and 06 trucks. Maybe a time issue who knows but it not a fair comparison to throw in the older problems that no one is disputing to start with. In quick searches a few web sites come up on the dodges and chevys too but I think that comes back to the earlier comments on the larger websites. I'm just not seeing it or hearing it on the 05 and 06 trucks and there is a ton of them on the road down here.


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## wicandthing (Jul 11, 2005)

Here's a little more information....

All this dealer's 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are trade-ins from a local motorhome dealership. He had several more trucks when I got there yesterday. Here's a Ford that was very nice. Its got some miles on it, but its comparable to my truck as far as ammenities









2001 Ford F250 Lariat
Crew cab, Powerstroke diesel
Automatic, 2wd, SWB
Black/tan, Tan leather, All power
150k miles
$16,990.

Truck


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

wicandthing,

That's great looking truck. Based on conventional wisdom, the diesel engine has a lot of life left. Things like brakes, suspension, steering parts may be wearing out but can be replaced as needed. They probably wouln't cost a lot at any one time.

But the one thing I would be concerned for is the transmission. If it should fail, I bet the cost would be several thousand dollars. Maybe those transmissions are lasting much longer before wearing out, but if I were you I would find out the normal life expectancy and decide if you want to potentially face a transmission replacement or rebuild.

Good luck.

Bill


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## Burger (Dec 20, 2005)

I am sure this goes without saying...







Buying a used vehicle requires common sense. Check service/damage records. Talk to the previous owner if you're buying from a used lot. If buying from an individual, consider how their property and other vehicles are kept. If the house is shabby, yard not kept up, other vehicles not well taken care of, there's no reason to believe the seller maintained the one he's selling any better than the one he's keeping and you might stay away from buying his. Have your favorite mechanic give the vehicle a good looking over before you buy. Of course, you know all this already...


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