# F150 Tow Questions



## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

Hi , I'm new to the forum (first post). I'm hoping your collective knowledge can help me determine *if I am capable of towing a 21RS with my existing TV?. *My wife and I really love the 21RS.

*Here is our TV setup:*
2003 F150 4X4 Supercab 
4.6 Liter V8 
Automatic trans 
Axle ratio 3.31 
Door Jamb sticker says GVWR 6250 
F150 manual says max tow weight equal to 5600 lbs, yet '03 towing guide says 5,500. *Why the discrepancy between the two?*

*Towing and Hitch setup are :*
G-Force break controller
After Market Hoppy hitch with:
Max Gross weight distribution of 8,000 lbs
Max Gross Tounge 800lbs
Weight carrying ball mount disrtibution 5,000 lbs
Max tounge weight 500lbs.

I'm primarily concerned with the V8 4.6 Liter size and 3.31 gear ratio. 
*Does anyone who tows a 21RS have a simular setup? * 
We really like the 21RS, but after reading this forum would rather get a true education from those of you in the know, than rely on a salesman who might tell us anything to make a sale. 
*I know this varies , however What is the gross weight we should expect to be towing with a 21RS with LP and lightly stocked for quick weekend getaways? *Any input you all can offer would be very much appreciated.


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## markvpayne (May 6, 2005)

Welcome .

My brother tows his 23RS with his Expedition same motor setup two wheel drive. He says no problems. We are in Florida so it is flat and not real challenging.

MVP


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

see http://www.trailerlife.com/downloads/03towingguide.pdf

need to know what style of F150 you have. Do you have the towing package installed from dealer?

Rule of thumb is to tow no more then 80% (most keep it about 75%) of the manufacturers rating... anything after that you start putting a strain on engine and transmission and stopping often becomes a white knuckle experience..


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## 76 cougar (Jan 30, 2005)

Had the 4.6 expedition. Pulled ok so long as I kept it out of overdrive. This was in flat florida. I think it would have a hard time on large hills keeping up speed but would do the job. If auto trans make sure to have trans cooler.
Lawton


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## ctsoderq (Dec 14, 2003)

I tow a 25RSS with an F150 4.6L, but it has the tow package (see signature). It does okay, and we're in Oregon where we go over either the coast or cascade ranges almost every time we go anywhere. When we're fully loaded, the tow capacity is pretty much max'd out. The truck works really hard up hills, but hasn't died yet. I may regret this later, when it's out of warranty, but things are fine so far.


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

Scootrd said:


> F150 manual says max tow weight equal to 5600 lbs, yet '03 towing guide says 5,500. *Why the discrepancy between the two?*
> 
> Weight carrying ball mount disrtibution 5,000 lbs
> *I know this varies , however What is the gross weight we should expect to be towing with a 21RS with LP and lightly stocked for quick weekend getaways? *
> [snapback]35686[/snapback]​


There has been a ton written about this subject ... and everyone has their own opinion .. but heres mine... Safety First!

I believe that you should "err" on the side of safety for you and your family and the family in front of your truck as you try to bring 5440 lbs to a stop.

The discrepency between the guide and Ford manual is only 100 pounds which is marginal.. I have seen it up to 1100 .. I would go with the towing guide though since often times the folks that make the manual make the manuals way before the truck is actually made... (if that makes sense)

For the 21RS my brother weighed his in at a little over 5440 at the Cat Scales - tanks full, two batteries and about 5 gallon each in each holding tank, loaded for camping

Using this figure, this will place you outside of the safety zone for towing in your truck IMO. If the guide said your towing max limit is 5500 then I would tow no more then 4400 pounds (or 80% of maximum towing) ... the way i see it the max that the manufacturer gives means just that -- MAX -- your engine is at its max pull and your brakes are also maxed out....or in other words ... your comfort level in towing goes down exponentially as the tow weight goes up!

The big concern of course is stopping -- not going...

I would also increase my ball strength to at least 6000 minimum....

But IMO your pushing the limits of your truck and safety....

---

and trust your instincts about not believing the salesman -- my salesman at the dealership I did NOT buy from becuase of his integrity issues told me that I could easily pull my 23RS with my Xterra becuase the 23RS only weighed in at 4000 and my Xterra had a pull of 5000 -- of course he was right about both ... but entirely wrong after taking in all considerations... ie -- my trailer weighed 5911 at the scales after all was said and done --


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

Welcome Scootrd,

I think alot will depend on the terrain you'll be towing around. If relatively flat you should be okay. If you have to go up some long grades you might consider changing the gearing to either the 3.55 or 3.73 ratios. The 3.73 will make the towing much easier on the engine and transmission. Since your truck has the 3.31 I'm guessing that you don't have the factory tow package with the transmission oil cooler. If your truck doesn't have a trans cooler you should definitely have one added. Heat is the mortal enemy of transmissions!!

I don't think you need to worry about the brakes because they are the same on all variations of the SuperCrew. So one with the tow package and rated for 8,000+ lbs has the same brake setup as your truck.

I always assume that my trailer is at the max weight and plan accordingly. Therefore, you should probably get a ball and mount good for at least 5,500 lbs. These are relatively inexpensive so it's not a big deal to get one that has plenty of capacity for the 21RS.


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## campntn (Feb 20, 2005)

Scootrd, come on in here by the fire. Your best thing is to call your FORD dealer with your Vin #. If you can't trust yours, PM me and I'll give you mine. He's very trustworthy. 
The one on the door jamb should be right. Manuals are generic and can be confusing.
Rule of thumb, as already stated, is 80 % which puts your wt at 5k.
I have a 21RS that has a weight, on the inside door, of 4330. Thats not with LP filled tanks tho. That's dry with all the options in it. We don't carry potable water. Although there are variables, you can safely add 1k to that door wt in the camper. That'd put you towing my camper, a fully tricked out (I reckon) 21RS at 5330, which is over the 80 % rule. 
Our Durango tow weight is 7550 which puts puts us ok but not by a whole lot. Like Ghosty said, stopablility is more impt than GOability. 
You might need to look at getting a new tv. Get your horse before your cart first and everything else will fall into place.
That being said, we LOVE our 21RS. Headed out on a group camp of about 100 folks this weekend.
Hope this helps, 
Mark


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## RCCL Cruisers (Apr 17, 2004)

Hi,

Your F150 with your set-up would be plenty to pull that 21RS. We have a 21RS and we have a Chevy Trailblazer and it pulls the trailer no problem with the 4.3 V6.

RCCL Cruisers


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## GenesRUs (Oct 11, 2004)

The other guys have given you soom great advice.

We pull our 21RS with an '04 F150 with the 5.4 Triton V8, 3.55 gears and tow package. It tows pretty good on flat highway, but long grades and altitude really take a toll on performance. We're in Colorado, so most camping requires a trek over a 9,000-10,000 foot pass (or more) on 6-8% grades. Those conditions have us crawling along behind semis in the SLOOOW lane. I wish I had more truck, but the F150 was all we could afford. Our F150 is rated to tow ~9200 lbs, which I believe is more than what you said your truck was rated. You might get away with the 21RS if you plan to stay out of the mountains, but.....

GenesRUs


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## GAcarver (Apr 12, 2005)

Scootrd said:


> Hi , I'm new to the forum (first post). I'm hoping your collective knowledge can help me determine *if I am capable of towing a 21RS with my existing TV?. *My wife and I really love the 21RS.
> 
> *Here is our TV setup:*
> 2003 F150 4X4 Supercab
> ...


WE pull our 21RS with an 03 F150, 355 rearend, V6, have had no problems.
A little slow on steep grades but I just put in in a lower gear and drive on.


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

So i guess to answer your question --

Half the folks say that it will tow fine

The other Half says that you are above your tow limits, will eventually ruin your transmisson and engine, and if ever in an accident may have the Police find you at fault for overloading..

so i guess the only technical thing to do now is FLIP A COIN


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

GAcarver said:


> Scootrd said:
> 
> 
> > Hi , I'm new to the forum (first post). I'm hoping your collective knowledge can help me determine *if I am capable of towing a 21RS with my existing TV?. *My wife and I really love the 21RS.
> ...


*Follow-up* Thanks to all who respnded. I agree with the 80% rule makes great sense. On that note, I would be interested hearing from others as to your Gross Dry weight + supplies packed into the trailer for a 3 day getaway. We do like the 21RS layout and would very much like to purchase one. Since a new TV is not an option I have found the same layout as the 21RS in the Surveyor SV-235RS. A little longer at 24'6" vs 21RS at 21'1" yet dry weight is less overall at 3699 vs 21RS at 3990. We still like the 21RS size better and I would rather be towing a 21 footer vs a 24 footer. It does seem all is split 50/50 on the responses. Thanks again to all.


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## HaulinBass02 (Jan 6, 2005)

You have to look at and find out what all the Surveyor is cutting out as far as options and quality. It may weigh less, but there is a good reason for it. That 300lbs could easliy come from them just not adding certain options in their dry weight that would be considered a standard feature on an Outback. By the time you get the Surveyor configured to how you like it, that dry weight could easily push 3990lbs. 
*Dry weights are with no options*. My reputable dealer has stressed that to me time and time again, that is why I went and bought the truck I did so I could tow the trailer we wanted safely. 
I have seen too many accidents (police officer) from overloaded trucks and trailers. It is just not safe in a stressful situation. 
Off of my soapbox, if you don't ever plan on long trips or mountainous terrain, go with it. If you want to go on cross-country treks and up in the mountains, don't. Would you rather be able to hitch up and drive off knowing that everything should go okay or wonder if the truck is going to break this time? If you do go with it, tranny cooler is a must and gears would be something I would do. Gears would really help your truck get the load moving from a stop and decrease engine and tranny stress. 3.73 would be a minimum. 
My 2 cents.


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

Scootrd said:


> HaulinBass02 said:
> 
> 
> > You have to look at and find out what all the Surveyor is cutting out as far as options and quality. It may weigh less, but there is a good reason for it. That 300lbs could easliy come from them just not adding certain options in their dry weight that would be considered a standard feature on an Outback. By the time you get the Surveyor configured to how you like it, that dry weight could easily push 3990lbs.
> ...


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## DANJOGAVINMO (Apr 17, 2004)

Scootrd,
I don't have a 21RS but can comment on extra weight of gear.

My 25RS-S supposedly is dry at 4655lb, think the sticker on the door is ~4900 (includes options). We weighed it fully loaded with gear & propane once at ~5500lb (no fresh/gray/black). So that was ~600lb of added weight at most.

I suppose a person could get to 1000lb if they add enough stuff, but my wife or kids don't pack light! Regarding the post that says they know of a 21RS weighing in at 5440 with minimal water on board, wow, that sounds like an untypical amount of gear/options (~1500 lbs? assuming 3990dry). Not saying it couldn't happen, but your gear weight is in your control!

I think with your proposed usage model, it would probably be OK. If your tow rating is truly 5500, then 80% of that is 4400lb. I think if you are frugal with your stowed gear and don't carry water (fresh or waste) unless you have to, you will be close enough to that number. Won't win any races, but probably fine.

Regarding vehicle upgrades: tranny cooler, high output alternator, bigger battery, towing gears are all good upgrades. Who knows, might be cheaper to trade in on a simlar F150 with 5.4L, better gears, and factory tow package?? Might be worth a visit to autotrader.com to understand the cheapest route. Do you have to have these items to tow? No. Are they generally what most people have on their rigs? Yes.

Regarding your hitch, you want to look at the "weight distributing" numbers, not the "weight carrying" numbers, those apply if you are just putting a trailer directly on the ball with no WD bars. So you are OK there.

Good luck and let us know your decision!
Danny


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## logdog (Jul 30, 2005)

Scootrd, We just got back from our second trip out in our 21rs, and I was able to get it weighed. We had everthing we needed for a 3-night stay, as well as one battery, both propane close to full, and 1/2 tank of fresh water. I was surprised to find that the trailer weighed 4980 pounds, I was expecting 5300-5400.

I was able to weigh my truck at the same time, the truck and trailer were on different scales and we were hooked up , so I don't know about the hitch weight.
I read that it is best to unhook the trailer and put it on the scale itself, and then weigh the truck by itself, but my 2 year old had been in the truck for 4 hours we were runnning out of time!!

To address your TV question, I think that you may need a bit more power to pull the 21rs, especially if you are in the mountains. I just bought a '05 Chevy Silverado, with a 4.8 V8, 3.73 rear end and have driven over the mountains on Highway 80 from Wyoming to California on my way home from picking up my 21rs. It never got hot going over the steep grades, but I was going about 40 mph and hanging out with the big trucks all the way up. I wouldn't have wanted a smaller engine. My Towing Capacity is 7000 pounds for my truck, with my GCWR at 12,000. My truck weighed 5640 with bikes, wood, bbq and other goodies in the back, so I was at 10,620 GCWR in actuality. That felt like enough. We plan on getting a second battery, and a 2800 Yamaha generator, (64 pounds), but that is it on the weight.

Hope you love your 21rs as much as we do.

Happy camping


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## snsgraham (May 18, 2004)

Yes!?
See my new post here.

Scott


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