# Tv Shopping Maybe? 1/2 Ton Woes



## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

As hard as I tried, I could not reduce weight for our Topsail Hill trip. I packed what I could toward the back of the trailer, took out stuff I didn't need for the trip, but to no avail; I was 15 lbs heavier than last year! I started the trip by weighing the rig at a certified scale. I was OK on GCWR, but over my GVWR for the truck, which is the typical problem with 1/2 ton trucks as tow vehicles.

I was 120 lbs over my GVWR, and the only thing in the truck bed was our bicycles, bike trailer and a 4 ft. aluminum ladder. The situation must be worse when we are also carrying firewood and the blue tank with us. I am concerned if I ever have a mechanical problem that the warranty claim might be denied, or if I have an accident and the insurance company wouldn't pay if I was over my weight limit.

I have started browsing the ads for used 2004 or 2005 3/4 ton PSDs and DMaxes. I have noticed that there are a lot of PSDs for sale, but very few DMaxes. For instance, a search around the area will return around 30 PSDs but only 6 DMaxes. Prices are better for the PSDs (probably because of the number sold/available) than the DMaxes. I would prefer to stick with GM, but the selection is too limited and the prices are not much less than what I can get a new one for with the employee discount. (And buying new is out of the question!)

I swore off Fords in the mid 90s after owning two, back-to-back lemons. Is there anything I need to know about 2004 or 2005 PSDs? Didn't the trucks used to have front leaf springs, and what year did they stop that? Any problems with the 2004 6.0L?


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## freefaller25 (Mar 19, 2006)

We PMed about the 05 I bought. I would not go for anything older than 05 as they made some nice changes (coil springs in the front, turbo and intake revised, etc.) for that year. As for my truck, I liked it very much until it overheated and blew coolant everywhere under the hood crossing the little mountains on the way to Gatlinburg, TN. It did the same thing again the next time I towed. Right now the truck is having the head gaskets replaced under warranty which requires the cab to be pull off the truck. I expect this is the reason the truck was traded by the previous owner.

The truck does run and pull great when not in the mountains and I expect it will be in good all-around working order when I get it back. You just never know when you buy used.

Tony


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## SoCalOutback (Dec 18, 2005)

GoVols said:


> As hard as I tried, I could not reduce weight for our Topsail Hill trip. I packed what I could toward the back of the trailer, took out stuff I didn't need for the trip, but to no avail; I was 15 lbs heavier than last year! I started the trip by weighing the rig at a certified scale. I was OK on GCWR, but over my GVWR for the truck, which is the typical problem with 1/2 ton trucks as tow vehicles.
> 
> I was 120 lbs over my GVWR, and the only thing in the truck bed was our bicycles, bike trailer and a 4 ft. aluminum ladder. The situation must be worse when we are also carrying firewood and the blue tank with us. I am concerned if I ever have a mechanical problem that the warranty claim might be denied, or if I have an accident and the insurance company wouldn't pay if I was over my weight limit.
> 
> ...


I ran into the exact same problem you did with my 26RS and half ton truck. So about 10 weeks ago I bought a 2005 F250 PSD. I have towed the trailer on 3 long trips now and can't believe I used to do it with my F150. Towing is so much more comfortable and having the power of the diesel is wonderful.

The research I did before I purchased indicated 2005 to 2007 is they way to go on the PSD. Some of the issues with earlier 6.0 PSD's are taken care of. However like any man made machine they break on occasion. The problem you hear of most is the head bolts "stretching" and causing the head gasket to fail. Most of the cases of this seem to be do to after market performance mods such as sold by banks. If you install after market boost, EGT, and trans temp gauges and keep everything with in safe limits the Ford 6.0 PSD seems to perform well for 200K plus miles based on people I have talked to.

Good luck with your decision. What ever you decide you will see a huge difference towing your 26rs with a 3/4 ton truck.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

We just towed our 29BHS down to Walt Disney World and back, swinging out of the way and over to Great Smoky Mountains NP. The hills of Tennessee were no problem for my truck, a Chevy 2500HD with the 6.0L gas engine. Granted, I averaged 8.6 mpg for the whole trip, but the truck pulled strong.

You don't have to have a DMax, but it would be stronger yet, with better fuel economy. But the DMax with the Allison Tranny upgrade is a $7500 option - something I could not justify when I pull the trailer only 5-6K miles per year.

Like you, I had a 1500 (Suburban) and it struggled with the Outback. Plus, like you, we were right at the limits of the 1500, so the upgrade to the 2500 was a necessity if we were going to travel very far from home. You're on the right track, but just thought you might like a little first-hand experience from someone towing a similar trailer in your neck of the woods.

Just my $.02

Mike


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## MAYZ83 (Mar 24, 2005)

My buddies family owns a Ford dealership. He said it was like one day they made good 6.0 liter diesel motors and the next they made bad ones. You could flip a coin as to what one you get.


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## Humpty (Apr 20, 2005)

If there may be a 5th wheel in your future, be mindful that 3/4 ton trucks configured like we all like (Diesel, 4x4, crew cab) are not going to have much payload capacity left for pin weight. Search for Single Rear Wheel 1 tons and I bet you will see nothing but Fords. I think Ford bumped up the GVWR considerably with the 05 model year.


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

This vehicle will also be my daily driver. I have a 56 mile per day commute, all interstate. I'm afraid a 1 ton would beat out all my fillings!


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

GoVols said:


> This vehicle will also be my daily driver. I have a 56 mile per day commute, all interstate. I'm afraid a 1 ton would beat out all my fillings!


Not in GM!

Is it stop and go interstate commute?

The purchase premium on the diesel will be realized on resale as your are seeing in the used market. With model year end sales events coming the new vehicle may be a less expensive per month cost than a two year old used vehicle. Plus more warranty, more overall life and less long term risk. July 4 week may bring back 6 year 0% interest GMAC finacing - so some things to think about.....

Map Guy


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

map guy said:


> With model year end sales events coming the new vehicle may be a less expensive per month cost than a two year old used vehicle. Plus more warranty, more overall life and less long term risk. July 4 week may bring back 6 year 0% interest GMAC finacing - so some things to think about.....
> 
> Map Guy


I've already been down that path, and believe me, a new DMax would be my first choice.







The 2007.5 DMax models are quite a bit more expensive, and even with GMS discounts; it would be several thousand more than a 2005 model something. I would also have to suffer poor mileage for a year until the engine was broken in.


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## HTQM (May 31, 2006)

The '03 and '04 PSD is what started the feud between Ford and their PSD supplier. It, basically, was over who should pay for the recalls on the motor. By '05 almost all of the gliches were fixed and PSD was back to a good choice among deisels. Another goodie on the '05 and up is the "tow command", I think in '05 it was an option but almost standerd after that. Tow Command is trailer brakes built into the truck vice having to add an after market system.

A note on what Humpty mentioned; A friend just got a heck of a deal on a '04 F350 PSD (he made sure to get a warranty) and it rides as smooth as any truck I've ever been in. I really thought it would be a tooth rattler as well but... When he keeps his foot out of it (likes to hear the turbo), he's getting 16mpg city.

Hope nthis helps
Dave


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

I hear what you are saying about the mileage issue and understand the budgeting issues. Our 2006 is finally loosening up a bit with right at 10K. Have you considered a Classic model 07 Dmax through a dealer trade? There are some out there still. Good to see you have GMS discounts available -they can help greatly but the Dealers sometimes won't work very hard to find a vehicle from outside using those discounts.

Good luck on your dilemma









Map Guy


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Just speaking for myself, I wouldn't touch a 6.0 or even a new 6.4 PSD. I know there are a bunch of people out there who love them but sure as I would give in and get one, I would be the fella posting on the internet with a bunch of problems. I am keenly interested in the Ford project known as Scorpion but if that sees production it will probably be '10. Bear in mind I am a Ford owner too. When/if we get a diesel, it will be a straight 6







Probably 2010MY barring our current vehicle experiencing some sort of implosion. Good luck with your decision - all the diesel trucks being built these days are pulling beasts.

-CC


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

At work we are on our second 6.0l ford f350 psd. The first one died at 47,000 miles the bypass valve on the turbo flooded the engine with coolant, it locked up the engine at 70mph. It was a 2004 and was traided in on a new 2006. As of yet it's not had any problems. James


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

freefaller25 said:


> As for my truck, I liked it very much until it overheated and blew coolant everywhere under the hood.
> 
> The truck does run and pull great when not in the mountains and I expect it will be in good all-around working order when I get it back. You just never know when you buy used.
> 
> Tony


That's what scares me about buying used. I've found an '05 PSD with 49,000 miles that interests me, but not knowing about it worrys me. The dealer can look up warranty history, but that's all. I'm also worried about fuel mileage for the PSD; I know it will not be as good as a Cummins or Duramax.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Tony.


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Lots of good suggestions and I'll add a few more. Don't by a truck with a chip on and I would actually even stay away if you see guages. The guages are a tell tale sign of it having a chip and somebody beating on it.

There are some new 07 Classic DMAX's around. 2 of them right up the street from me actually. There is also a big 4th of July sale. Combine that 4th of July sale with employee discount and you whipe maybe up to 7K off the price of the diesel. Exactly what I did one year ago today. I believe you could get into a '07 Classic for around $36K. The rebate is now $2K.

I happen to believe that you won't have that bad of mileage out the showroom door. Mine returned mid 15 around town and has since grown to mid 16's around town with 16K on the odometer.

Search well and be careful of the chip crowd. I'm paranoid of those guys as you can see but I read Diesel Place and that will turn your head real fast. The average IQ over there is 10 and so is the maturity level.

You will always see more Fords then the DMAX because they sold a lot more and a lot were broken. Dam shame actually.


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

NJMikeC said:


> There are some new 07 Classic DMAX's around. 2 of them right up the street from me actually. There is also a big 4th of July sale. Combine that 4th of July sale with employee discount and you whipe maybe up to 7K off the price of the diesel. Exactly what I did one year ago today. I believe you could get into a '07 Classic for around $36K. The rebate is now $2K.


About a month or so ago the rebate was $3500 and I probably should have jumped then; it is now $2750 in the Southeast region. Even at $2750 plus GMS, it still would be nearly $5k more than a used one.


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## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

The dealer I bought my 06 duramax has the exact same truck in an 07. he seems to get one in at the beginning of july. I found it last year at the end of August and he was trying to dump it. The truck is a towers paridise as it is a no frills LT1. No extra bells and whistles, manual 4x4, manual air/heat controls list is 41K+ and last year with the rebate got it for 36.5K with 6yr 80K warranty and tax included. This year you get the 100K. D&C chevy in westwood NJ.


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## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

How about a Dodge?


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

If you consider a Dodge and price is a big concern, call Dave Smith Motors and ask for Pete Ihasz. I think he sells GM too.

-CC


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## freefaller25 (Mar 19, 2006)

GoVols said:


> As for my truck, I liked it very much until it overheated and blew coolant everywhere under the hood.
> 
> The truck does run and pull great when not in the mountains and I expect it will be in good all-around working order when I get it back. You just never know when you buy used.
> 
> Tony


That's what scares me about buying used. I've found an '05 PSD with 49,000 miles that interests me, but not knowing about it worrys me. The dealer can look up warranty history, but that's all. I'm also worried about fuel mileage for the PSD; I know it will not be as good as a Cummins or Duramax.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Tony.
[/quote]

I got the truck back and it seems perfect (with lots of new parts now). Will tow next week. As for the mileage: I get 18.5 - 19.5 mpg just shy of 80. With the camper I am around 12 mpg. This is with the latest factory flash before the repair (I had it flashed by the dealer under a recall right after I bought it).

I checked before I bought it and the truck had a clear warranty history from Ford. I do believe, after talking with the tech that did the repair work, that the truck was chipped when I bought it (probably hypertech). The boost numbers and redline were higher than stock without any hardware on the truck. Definitely watch out for any evidence of chipping as has been mentioned.

Tony


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## panthercity (May 8, 2007)

freefaller25 said:


> ... I get 18.5 - 19.5 mpg cursing just shy of 80.,,


So, you were a sailor, eh?


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

sleecjr said:


> How about a Dodge?


I like the idea of the Megacab, and I got the opportunity to ride in an 07 2500 Megacab on Friday. Back seat room is huge, but it was the roughest riding truck I had ever been in! My Chevy has the Z71 off-road suspension and it's pretty bouncy, but the Dodge was much worse.


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## freefaller25 (Mar 19, 2006)

panthercity said:


> ... I get 18.5 - 19.5 mpg cursing just shy of 80.,,


So, you were a sailor, eh?
[/quote]

Spell check doesn't solve all my problems I guess.

Tony


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## Northern Wind (Nov 21, 2006)

I am on my 12th Ford, the last 2 have been 6.0 Diesels. First was a 2003 that I blew the motor at 155,000 Klms. Ford offered me a new motor or a great deal on a 2006. I took the deal as they totally redesigned the 6.0L in 2005 and its been great. The 250 rides great, I should know I do 7,000 to 8,000 Klms a month.
I will not hesitate to buy another they are well built and pull my fiver like a dream. Have all the room we need and look great as well.
Works for me.

Steve


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## panthercity (May 8, 2007)

freefaller25 said:


> ... I get 18.5 - 19.5 mpg cursing just shy of 80.,,


So, you were a sailor, eh?
[/quote]

Spell check doesn't solve all my problems I guess.

Tony
[/quote]

Sorry, Tony. I just couldn't resist.


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