# Tires & Wheels



## tripphammer (Oct 3, 2006)

I have done several searches on tires and wheels and haven't come up with much of the info that I'm in hopes to find through this thread







. I recently (actually it's being done right now) am having the axles flipped on my 28KRS. So naturally the next step would be the 15 inch wheels and tires. I know that the bolt patter is 5-4.5inch for the Dexter Axle.

So my next question is if anyone has gotten any great screaming deals on wheels and tires. And not just from a bragging standpoint but more from an informational standpoint.

So if you have gotten a great deal on 15" wheels and tires, how about listing it here for those of us who are shopping. Please give the make and model, size and/or part number on each and list your source both name and telephone (and e-mail and web address if possible). Also, add the make and model of Outback that you put them on. Hopefully this thread can be useful to many in the future... and of course to me also







.
Take Care,
Tripp


----------



## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

Seems I bookmarked this website because assembly prices were pretty good but not sure on the tire quality compared to Maxxis or GY Marathon.

Taskmaster Website

Edit -remember you will need 5 assemblies to have a spare!

Map Guy


----------



## ChopperCop (Oct 2, 2005)

Tripp,

I had a blow out this past summer and am looking to replace all four tires. I've decided to up grade the tires from the 14" C rated tires that came with the unit to 15" 205/75R 8ply D rated radals. I went to Discount Tires and got a price quote for 4 tires, wheels, balance, road hazard warranty and taxes. The out the door price was $636.07. I thought the price seemed a little so I told the guy I'd call him back. I drove two exits down the freeway to another Discount Tire (seems that there as many Discount Tires as there are Starbucks ) for the very same tire and wheel set-up their out the door price was $532.00 I thought this was good and told the guy to order them and I would be in Wednesday to pick them up. I almost went ahead and payed for them, but thought better. I came back to the Hanger bragging on what good deal I had made. One of our other pilots said to let him call someone he knew. Anyway, he called yet another Discount Tire about five miles away from the previous Discount Tire. Their price was $489.35 out the door, this is with allum. mag. rims. I put the tires on just before Christmas. It just beats the fire out of me that you can get such a wide price spread from the same company.

Happy Shopping

Bob


----------



## Swany (Mar 2, 2006)

TrippHammer said:


> I have done several searches on tires and wheels and haven't come up with much of the info that I'm in hopes to find through this thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe somebody could help clear up my thinking on adding bigger wheels on a TT. My 27RSDS has what I would consider only barely adequate brakes. Per the Prodigy controller instructions you set the controller by doing 25 mile per hour stops with the controller handle moved to full on and keep advancing the voltage until you get lock-up. At the full 13Volts my TT does not lock up. Ever. They supply a pretty good tug and they are working, but no dry pavement lock up. This leads me to believe that the brakes are not overly powerful. So, when you go from a 14" to say a 15" wheel have you not increased the leverage that the tire and wheel assembly have against the brake? Does this not reduce the effectiveness of the brake? I have considered finding some 4000# axles to get the next size brakes. Am I making sense or just whistling Dixie.


----------



## ChopperCop (Oct 2, 2005)

Swany,

My thoughts on going to the larger tires wasn't to get a larger size, but to get a higher laod rating.

Bob


----------



## Pee Wee (May 31, 2005)

The best price I could find for aluminum rims $56.58 from americana tire and wheel in Bristol Indiana (574)-522-9450 One place gave me a price of$112. for the same wheel







Here is the link to Hispec wheel http://hispecwheel.com/index.html that is the brand I bought, and they are NICE, but made in china. As far as rubber, I got Maxxis M8008 ST225/75R15 10 ply radials from Discount tire and wheel 1-800-589-6789 Craig ext 416 use Craig! All four with shipping for $352.00 also a great price IMO. Tripp, your pm has been sent.

Pee Wee


----------



## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

Two reason to upgrade the tire/wheels from 14" to 15"

1. upgrade load capacity (limited by suspension and frame of trailer) 
- Some of us don't like the tire performance / wear issues (especially in hot environments) with a tire that is being run at 90 to 100% of rated capacity.

2. Increase ride height for clearance issues of one kind or another.

Examples from Taskmaster Tire Website link of my earlier post.
Moving from st205/75d14 to st205/75d15 will increase load capacity about 60 lbs per tire. Diameter increases about 2.5". Load Range C on both 14/15

Moving from st205/75d14 to st225/75d15 increases load capacity about 780 lbs. per tire. Diameter increases about 3.75" Change from Load Range C to D

As one poster pointed out already - the increased diameter may or may not be an issue depending on how you load the trailer and what tow vehicle is used.

A slick load chart for weight capacity / inflation pressure relationship is at the Maxxis  link.

Hope this helps some of you out there!

Map Guy


----------



## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

Another good trailer tire in the Maxxis/GY Marathon quality range is the Denman Express ST Bias or Express ST Radial. Used Denman tires on a fleet of rental skid steer (bobcat type) loaders with very good experience. Denman actually stood behind their warranty even in this application. Specs on these tires are Link Here. They have a wider range of sizes available than other manufacturers too -ST215/75R14 Load Range C and ST205/75R15 Load Range C or D (radials)

Using the ST205/75R15 LR D tires changes your tire diameter very little for those of you with concerns about braking ....

Map Guy


----------



## tripphammer (Oct 3, 2006)

Well, now that the axle flip was completed, it was time to shop for new tires and wheels. I checked quite a few places including those that Pee Wee posted here and I believe I ended up with a great screaming deal from Bob Fox (owner) at J & J Tire Factory here in Helena, MT. Tire Factory Stores are located throughout the Western United States. I got the following:

6 - U.S. Wheels 15X6 White Modular, 5-4.50 (5 bolt, 4.50 inch pattern) for......... 38.50 Each for a total of: $ 231.00 and...

6 - Goodyear Marathon, Load Range D, ST22575R15 tires for ...... 105.00 Each for a total of $630.00
With Tire Factory Road Hazard Warranty, and...

20 - 1/2" Chrome Bulge Lug Nuts for $1.00 each for a total of $20.00 and...

4 - 3.30 Chrome Closed Caps (U.S. Wheels) for $7.00 each for a total of $21.00

For a Grand total of - $902.00

Why six wheels? I have alway thought that having two spares in the mountains when you are navigating some pretty sharp, rocky roads is a wise decision. Furthermore, I have had need to use two spares... so it was just added insurance for me.

Hope this helps with your tire and wheel shopping!

Take Care,

Tripp


----------



## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

map guy said:


> Two reason to upgrade the tire/wheels from 14" to 15"
> 
> 1. upgrade load capacity (limited by suspension and frame of trailer)
> - Some of us don't like the tire performance / wear issues (especially in hot environments) with a tire that is being run at 90 to 100% of rated capacity.
> ...


I don't know where the above diameter increases were gotten, but my experience is different. When our trailer was almost new, we changed our stock Nancos (205-14s) for Goodyear Marathons (225-15) and the diameter increased less than 1/2 inch. This was a major issue when we made the switch because our 27RSS has little clearance above the tires on the left side, due to the dinette slide. When a mounted (on the wheel) Marathon was standing upright side by side against the mounted Nanco, the total tire/wheel diameter increase was less than 1/2 inch.

These tires were all removed from the trailer, so there was no weight compressing them. As I recall, the 15 inch wheels are wider than the 14 inch stock wheels, so this probably caused a little decrease in mounted diameter. But certainly not the inches difference from the above numbers.









We do get the left tires touching the bottom of the dinette slide occasionally, based upon some slight rub marks. But I don't think it happens often, nor do I think it's harming anything. Tire wear looks to be the same as the curb side. Still, I may "flip the axles" or have the springs re-arced to gain clearance. But based on the side by side comparison, I would bet the stock Nancos would also make contact with the slide bottom occasioanlly. Does anyone with stock wheels/tires on a 27RSDS see any rub marks under their slide?

Bill


----------



## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

I have to admit I'm tire size illiterate. I have stock Duro tires on my 26RS, and there is all kinds of room within the wheel wells. No question I could handle larger diameter tires in there. Can I upgrade my Duro tires with better quality/higher load range without changing rims?


----------



## tripphammer (Oct 3, 2006)

GoVols said:


> I have to admit I'm tire size illiterate. I have stock Duro tires on my 26RS, and there is all kinds of room within the wheel wells. No question I could handle larger diameter tires in there. Can I upgrade my Duro tires with better quality/higher load range without changing rims?


From what I researched, the answer would be no. I could not find any higher load range than C in the 14" size. Yes there is all kinds of room for the 14". But the reason for the axle flip is not only to guarantee no rubbing of the sidewalls but to increase the clearance. As an old tire repairman (back in college for three years) I know that the sidewalls can be damaged far more easily than the treads. I would not want ANY rubbing. I have found in most of the Forest Service campgrounds here in Montana they use large boulders (20 to 30 inch) as borders for roadways and parking spots. It was way too easy to clip one of these when backing in the TT. After getting a bit of body repair done (twice), I decided that the axle flip would help in more ways than one. This season will tell.

Take Care,

Tripp


----------



## Swany (Mar 2, 2006)

map guy said:


> Seems I bookmarked this website because assembly prices were pretty good but not sure on the tire quality compared to Maxxis or GY Marathon.
> 
> Taskmaster Website
> 
> ...


FYI, my OB came with Taskmasters on it. I have less that 5K on them and I just changed them out today. OB denied ever using taskmasters so I went directly to Taskmaster to get warranty. they provided me with 4 replacements and also told me that OB uses a lot of taskmasters (?). The failures were blisters around the bead area and channel cracking (longitudinal cracks in the tread grooves). All 4 tires went bonkers and now are replaced. If the replacements weren't "no cost" tires I would not have put Taskmasters back on. The tires also seemed to be wearing excessively in a way caused by turning.


----------



## biga (Apr 17, 2006)

I'll add the information I have gathered to this thread:

The OEM tire on our outback is a Duro 205/75D14 Meaning it is a bias ply tire with a diameter of 26.1 inches and load range C giving 1760lbs each load capacity (7040 total capacity).

The options for upgrades are as follows:
Kumho Radial 857 205/QR14, Q speed rated (99MPH) and D load rated (2271lbs each, 9084lbs total). The only 14" D load rated tire I have found, however the were virtually impossible to get locally, and as of 10/16/2007, they are out of stock and the Kumho Rep to Jeg High Performance does not know when (if) they will be manufactured again. Should be the same diamater or slightly smaller than the OEM tires.

Carlisle Radial Trail 205/75R15 Load Range D (2150lbs each, 8600lbs total), Listed diameter is 27.2 inches, so it would be approx 1/2 inch closer to the top of the wheel well.
Titan Trailer Tires 205/75R15 and 205/75D15. Titan offers a Radial and a Bias Ply D Load Range tire. Both are listed as 2150lbs max load, but the Bias Ply is 28 inch diameter while the Radial is 27.1 inches.

Many companies list bot Radial and Bias Ply tires in the 225/75-15 size in both D and E load ratings. As a whole, these tire are going to be over 28.25 inches in diameter (over 1 inch closer to the top of the wheel well). I believe that campers with a side slide will encounter clearance issues with tires of this size.

I have been quoted a price locally for 5 Carlisle Radial Trail 205/75R15 tires with wheels, lug nuts, caps, mount and balance for $755 out the door. I'm still looking for a deal.

Links:
Powerdog Tire Size Calculator
1010Tires Calculator
Miata.net Tire Calculator


----------



## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

cookie9933 said:


> Two reason to upgrade the tire/wheels from 14" to 15"
> 
> 1. upgrade load capacity (limited by suspension and frame of trailer)
> - Some of us don't like the tire performance / wear issues (especially in hot environments) with a tire that is being run at 90 to 100% of rated capacity.
> ...


I don't know where the above diameter increases were gotten, but my experience is different. When our trailer was almost new, we changed our stock Nancos (205-14s) for Goodyear Marathons (225-15) and the diameter increased less than 1/2 inch. This was a major issue when we made the switch because our 27RSS has little clearance above the tires on the left side, due to the dinette slide. When a mounted (on the wheel) Marathon was standing upright side by side against the mounted Nanco, the total tire/wheel diameter increase was less than 1/2 inch.

These tires were all removed from the trailer, so there was no weight compressing them. As I recall, the 15 inch wheels are wider than the 14 inch stock wheels, so this probably caused a little decrease in mounted diameter. But certainly not the inches difference from the above numbers.









We do get the left tires touching the bottom of the dinette slide occasionally, based upon some slight rub marks. But I don't think it happens often, nor do I think it's harming anything. Tire wear looks to be the same as the curb side. Still, I may "flip the axles" or have the springs re-arced to gain clearance. But based on the side by side comparison, I would bet the stock Nancos would also make contact with the slide bottom occasioanlly. Does anyone with stock wheels/tires on a 27RSDS see any rub marks under their slide?

Bill
[/quote]

Bill 
the diameter figures came directly from the Taskmaster Website that day of the original posting Taskmaster comparing their two different size products as an example and not intended to be interpreted as "one size" fits all applications and or all tires of this size on the market today have the same dimensions. I would not buy this brand tire based on continuing research due to IMHO low levels of performance. The tire industry is evolving big time right now as we are all finding out due to the multiple ongoing tire safety campaigns and free replacements being supplied directly to the consumer.....

Loaded height on a tire will not be the same as the called out manufacturing specification for diameter. Trailer height change between tires sizes will not be 1/2 of tire diameter change due to difference between unloaded height and loaded height. Tires are not a true circle when operating.......they are a form of elpsoid that is constantly changing due to the downward forces from the load and the need to conform to surface irregularities as the travel. I am sure someone will post a more correct technical response but .......

The thing I see that is alarming during every ones quest to have safer tires is the lack of knowledge concerning the need for both the tires and rims to have the right capacity relationships. Case in point is the Kumho 857 - 2271 capacity at 65 PSI Load Range D 8 Ply -No load/inflation chart available Online. 
So you take off the Load Range C / 50 PSI max tire, install the Load Range D tire that needs 65 PSI for capacity. Did anyone check the rim for it's stamped DOT weight capacity and PSI rating? Not usually.... So assume the rim was rated for Load Range C /50PSI (easy assumption due to the tire/wheel penny pinching done in the RV world) have you safely increased capacity?

Since in our example Kumho doesn't make a Load/inflation chart available a simple mathematical analysis needs to be done based on the 50 PSI max of Load Range C (assumed rim capacity -PSI constrained)

50/65=0.769230
2271x0.769230 = 1746.92133 -this is less than the LR C Tire it replaced.
This calculation is conservative and a Kumho Load/inflation chart may give you more capacity at 50 PSI.....

The other issue I have found is that most 14" aftermarket trailer rims/wheels are Load Rated for 1900 lbs or less but please don't take my word on this -do you own research.

Always remember "the chain is only as strong as the weakest link"

Skimpy tires, wheels and axle assemblies is an RV industry wide problem that will continue into the future IMO.

Just some food for thought.....

Map Guy


----------



## biga (Apr 17, 2006)

I picked up the Carlisle's with the new wheels yesterday. As quoted, $755 for 5 tires, 5 wheels, mounted and balanced, with 4 chrome center caps and 4 sets of chrome lug nuts (bling bling







) From Bob's Tire Service in Attalla, AL. I could not find the combo significantly cheaper online, and the other local tire places did not really want to talk to me about camper wheels and tires.

I placed the new tires next to the Duro spare from the OB, and sure enough, they appear to be 1" taller as advertised. I noticed immediately, how much flatter the tread area of the radials is compared to the bias ply's. I plan to get them on the camper this week, and I will take some comparison shots to show the differences. I plan to get a tread depth gauge so I can keep a very close eye on the wear patterns of these tires. I'm hoping I still do not have an axle problem.

So, does this count as a mod, or a maintenance issue?


----------



## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Mod


----------



## kjdj (Sep 14, 2004)

If you don't need the bling I see Tractor Supply has D rated 15" Bias Carlisle mounted on white modular wheels for $99 each.
There is a whole pallet of them at the store near me.
If anyone is interested.


----------



## biga (Apr 17, 2006)

kjdj said:


> If you don't need the bling I see Tractor Supply has D rated 15" Bias Carlisle mounted on white modular wheels for $99 each.
> There is a whole pallet of them at the store near me.
> If anyone is interested.


I'll have to check out the local TSC. If they are the bias ply D rated Carlisles, they are probably the 225/75D15 size. But good to know for future reference.


----------



## garywies (Aug 23, 2007)

Hi to all
I have the dumbest question....ready?
Here goes....
If tires and wheels are such a huge problem and seem to be the "Weak Link" in the TT-Why can't I put automotive radial tires on my Outback?
I am sure I would need automotive wheels of the correct size and bolt pattern and the correct offset to clear the fenders and the trailer....
Why not a set of really high quality car tires? High load ratings and high speed ratings....
Thanks for listening, I look forward to the answer.
G


----------



## biga (Apr 17, 2006)

garywies said:


> Hi to all
> I have the dumbest question....ready?
> Here goes....
> If tires and wheels are such a huge problem and seem to be the "Weak Link" in the TT-Why can't I put automotive radial tires on my Outback?
> ...


1st, Passenger tires actually have much LOWER load ratings than the ST trailer tires. Most passenger tires are only rated for around 1500 lbs.

2nd, the side loads imparted on a trailer tire would destroy a car tire quite quickly.

I have read on a few sites that load rated LT truck tires can be used on a trailer. I think they are fairly popular on some of the larger 5th wheels. The problem with using them on an OB is that they are difficult to find in anything less than a 16" wheel, and they are just as (if not more) expensive than the ST tires.

Now, if someone could find 5 lug 14.5" rims, then you can get some VERY high load ratings 14.5" trailer tires for good prices, but you would be limited to a bias ply tire. They would be great for someone who regularly pulled thier OB on less than perfect roads.


----------

