# Anyone Else Lose Thier Brakes?



## Huskytracks (Apr 18, 2005)

Greetings all, good to be back after a very busy fall season. I have a story that happened at the end of summer but I haven't had the time to sit down and write it out till now.

While heading into Dawson city on the bad road in the rain I noticed the brakes giving out intermittently. That was a scary experience when on 5%+ grades and dirt roads in the rain. We got into Dawson city safe but ther were no repair shops until Whitehorse. So we had to head out of town with a trailer that wasn't 100% and drive over 150 miles. That was a good feeling.









Halfway to Whitehorse the brakes gave out completely and I got a "short" message on the prodigy. The pucker fackor got pretty high at that point. We limped into Whitehorse and the only shop got us in for repairs. Actually it worked out pretty good. They fixed the trailer while we went sightseeing.

When we got the trailer back they said that the brake wiring in the axle had chafed through. It had a simple fix in that he just strung new wires along the back of the axles. The parts bill was less than $20. Unfortunately the labor came ot over $200 canadian. Simple problem, easy to trouble shoot, and easy to fix except we were in the middle of canada without any tools or parts. Talk about the worst possible time for a problem to show up.

It was a common enough problem that it was the first thing the mechanic checked for. He said that the OEMs route the wires through the trailer axles and they chafe from all the motion down there. He said that the way the OEMs string the wires, it is just a matter of miles before that problem shows its face. If any of you out there are handy it might be a good idea to reroute your brake wires out of the axles before they become a trip stopper. I woud definetly put it on my list for a Canada/Alaska trip after hearing about how many times that shop sees that particular problem every summer. Granted the wonderful norther roads probably shorten the time before it gives out but a time bomb is a time bomb no matter how long the fuse is.

Happy camping all of you who are lucky enough to get out during the winter.
Don


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

Glad you made out safely. Thanks for the heads up. Another item added to the spring list.


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

How can something as simple as brake wire placement elude common sense?
I'm sure this was quite harrowing for you as you made your way to safety.
I'm so glad to hear that everything turned out okay for you...things could have been alot worse
Thank you for making us all aware of this potentially dangerous problem.

Dawn


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

skippershe said:


> How can something as simple as brake wire placement elude common sense?
> I'm sure this was quite harrowing for you as you made your way to safety.
> I'm so glad to hear that everything turned out okay for you...things could have been alot worse
> Thank you for making us all aware of this potentially dangerous problem.
> ...


As usual, Dawn got all the words right the first time!!!

So glad you and your family are safe!!! Thanks for the heads up!!


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Actual the placement is intentional and most of the time it is a very safe place for it to be placed. Connecting the left and right brakes internally limits the chance of the wire getting snagged while towing which is a higher probability then wear.

The actual likely cause was the wire got skinned when pulled though the hole into the axle and then it shorted out. I would have used the old wire as a fish tape and pulled new back into the axle to protect the new wire and that would allow me to inspect the old wire.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Thanks, Andy....I can breath again....


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## Lazybonz(aka Bill) (Sep 23, 2006)

WOW!
Squirrels ate up my propane hoses this fall!
When that happened I was worried about the brake wiring too...so I checked it over pretty good.
I am adding chafe protection and maybe steel braiding to my exposed wiring and hoses this spring (after it warms up and I can get under the Outback).
BTW squirrels etc. seem to be attracted to rubber compounds on propane hoses...so watch out.








The damn beasties ate thew mine in just 1-2 hours. Cost was almost $100 by the time I located and replaced 3 hoses with fittings. Not to mention the travel delay.

Bill


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## JimBo99 (Apr 25, 2006)

Well, I must confess to a similar problem. Last summer on the way west I noticed my Prodigy showing intermittantly a short then overload when the brakes were applied. In Amarillo a shop changed out a magnet because the wiring was being pinch in the brake actuating levers. All seemed to be fine until Durango (and you know how important brakes are up there! Especially as I was headed to Ouray then Colorado Springs). Coming into Durango it was showing intermittant short again. Of course throughout all this I'm checking all expose wiring, etc. When in Moab I took the OB to an rv repair shop, they couldn't find anything wrong. The tech said it could be either an intermittant short in the OB wilring we couldn't get to, or the Prodigy was acting up. He told me that he had seen many people go back to a basic controller because the Prodigy and similar devices are too sensitive. So . . . I put on the old Impulse brake controller. It was fine and I rolled on home.

I still haven't pulled the underbelly cover, but will later this spring after I get back from Florida. All was well on my last trip on New Years to Nashville, TN (using the Impulse). Pulling with the Dodge 2500 that has huge four wheel disc brakes gives me some peace of mind. When I lost my brakes last summer it stopped the OB just fine in moderate terrain. And the Hensley keeps the OB in line with the TV. But in the mountains, or if I have an emergency situation, I want to know for sure that those OB brakes are there!

Jim


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

Thanks for posting your experience! Glad everything worked out.


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## LarryTheOutback (Jun 15, 2005)

Our brake wire story is a bit different. Someone cut the brake cables on the street side, but not on the curb site. This meant that the brakes worked, just not very efficiently (or safely). The Prodigy didn't have enough data to report an error to us. The good news is that the wires are very accessible and very easily fixable.

The lesson learned is the check the brakes often. We've added a new step to the morning ritual ... I have one of the kids sit up front and hold down the brake pedal. Then I go from wheel to wheel and listen for the hum of the brake magnet. This won't detect an intermittent problem, but does detect the big ones.

Ed


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## jlbabb28 (Feb 27, 2006)

I am glad that your ok!

Jeff


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## Mgonzo2u (Aug 3, 2004)

Lazybonz(aka Bill) said:


> WOW!
> Squirrels ate up my propane hoses this fall!
> When that happened I was worried about the brake wiring too...so I checked it over pretty good.
> I am adding chafe protection and maybe steel braiding to my exposed wiring and hoses this spring (after it warms up and I can get under the Outback).
> ...


Rodent damage to your TT should be covered under the Comprehensive Damage portion of your TV insurance policy.

As long as your damage exceeds your deductible, submit the claim. Comp losses do not count against your claims history.


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## Huskytracks (Apr 18, 2005)

Sorry to rain on your parade Andy but in my instance the wire was very obviously worn through. It was worn in only a couple of spots and when the wire was flexed into a "U" bend the worn spots were flat and did not follow the bend like a scrape from hanging up would.

The mechanic told me that the factories deliberateley route the wires through the axles to protect them from snagging. The problem comes from when they stuff more wire in there than is necesarry and it loops and bends inside the axle. The loops and "u" bends create a wear point where they touch the sidewalls. Between that and all the grit and sand it is just then a matter of time before they wear through. If I knew a year ago what I know now I would at least get under my rig and pull out the slack from the wires in my rig's axles. This seems to be a widespread problem as that one shop sees it over a hundred times a summer travel season.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Huskytracks said:


> Sorry to rain on your parade Andy but in my instance the wire was very obviously worn through. It was worn in only a couple of spots and when the wire was flexed into a "U" bend the worn spots were flat and did not follow the bend like a scrape from hanging up would.
> 
> The mechanic told me that the factories deliberateley route the wires through the axles to protect them from snagging. The problem comes from when they stuff more wire in there than is necesarry and it loops and bends inside the axle. The loops and "u" bends create a wear point where they touch the sidewalls. Between that and all the grit and sand it is just then a matter of time before they wear through. If I knew a year ago what I know now I would at least get under my rig and pull out the slack from the wires in my rig's axles. This seems to be a widespread problem as that one shop sees it over a hundred times a summer travel season.


No rain here especially since you said the mechanic said the same thing I did about it being in there to prevent snagging. I never did say it could only be skinned when pulled in and not have been just worn through. With the additional information you gave about the extra wire being stuffed in, it had pressure points between the wire and the inside of the axle tube then I can see why yours did wear through. Removal of the slack would be a good idea as long as it is not tight in the holes at either end as that would create a pressure point for wear.

Now not to disbelieve (just really really hard to believe) what the mechanic said about seeing this over a hundred times a summer but that is not likely. With the short camping season in the great white north that would be close to 1 a day with this problem, just in this one shop. With a failure rate like that the axle manufactures would be out of business with all the law suits over crashes caused by failed brakes.

A hard short in the brake wiring takes all off 5 minutes to isolate (if they did it all the time then it should be less then that). Replacement of the offending piece of wire would take 20 minutes total, so you should have been out of there with maybe $10 in materials and 1 hour labor max. Anything more and they were just taking advantage of you no matter how nice they seemed or how many other people they say have this problem, which they tell you so you do not feel so bad about paying so much to have it repaired.

I am glad you had it repaired and you safely completed your trip but unfortunately many (not all) RV repair shops have the same problem with the truth that many RV salesman have.


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## STRABO (Jun 12, 2006)

Great. Now, I have something more to worry about regarding brakes. Until this point, my major concern has been how to adjust the brakes. Seems it's important to do that after reading several posts over the last few months. We've had the TT out twice on trips and all appears fine, but I would like to re-adjust the brakes if it's as important as folks on this site say it is.

Here's the issue: I've jacked the TT up on three occasions and have not been able to get to the front wheel brake port because the axle assembly is in the way. I have, by being a contortionist been able to access the back port, remove the rubber plug and get to the adjusting wheel with the tool. Impossible for me to do that on the front wheels. Is this an issue for anyone else with the 21RS? Perhaps the larger TT have more room between the wheel hub and axle assembly.

Should I take it back to the dealer for adjustment? I would like to see how they do it.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.


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## Karma (Nov 13, 2005)

I may be wrong, but do the OB's have breaks on all four wheels, or just the front two? I believe that my 23RS just uses the front axle for breaking. It would seem that the rear hubs have the break components, but the wires coming out of the hubbs just end, where as the front hubs have wires that go into the axles. Could this be the wire for the emergency breaks that I'm looking at?


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Karma said:


> I may be wrong, but do the OB's have breaks on all four wheels, or just the front two? I believe that my 23RS just uses the front axle for breaking. It would seem that the rear hubs have the break components, but the wires coming out of the hubbs just end, where as the front hubs have wires that go into the axles. Could this be the wire for the emergency breaks that I'm looking at?


It sounds as though Gilligan forgot to hook up some wires









Mine has brakes on all four wheels.....with wires hooked up to all of them.

Steve


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

All 4 wheels should be functional.


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Gillgan for sure! There are some trailers out there that have only 2 wheel brakes but that shouldn't be the case on the Outbacks. Also hope that isn't an '07 model year upgrade! That would stink!


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

You can also adjust them pretty close by pulling the drum and adjusting it directly from the front. Then slap the drum back on and test. There's also a tool for doing this but they're not too common anymore. It's a giant caliper that you open up to the widest part inside the drum, then flip it over and use the other side to adjust the shoes out until they just touch the pointers. Haven't seen one of these in years though







I used to use one of these all the time in my former life as a brake mechanic.


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## STRABO (Jun 12, 2006)

California Jim said:


> You can also adjust them pretty close by pulling the drum and adjusting it directly from the front. Then slap the drum back on and test. There's also a tool for doing this but they're not too common anymore. It's a giant caliper that you open up to the widest part inside the drum, then flip it over and use the other side to adjust the shoes out until they just touch the pointers. Haven't seen one of these in years though
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Jim. This information helps. I'll give it a try.


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## Jeannie (Oct 26, 2006)

Huskytracks said:


> Greetings all, good to be back after a very busy fall season. I have a story that happened at the end of summer but I haven't had the time to sit down and write it out till now.
> 
> While heading into Dawson city on the bad road in the rain I noticed the brakes giving out intermittently. That was a scary experience when on 5%+ grades and dirt roads in the rain. We got into Dawson city safe but ther were no repair shops until Whitehorse. So we had to head out of town with a trailer that wasn't 100% and drive over 150 miles. That was a good feeling.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. There are only about 300 miles on the trailer and our brakes just went out the same way. Prodigy was reading intermittant no power and then the short error came up. What really stinks is that the camper had been in for service for a leak in the slideout. We had just picked up and were on our way home. Of course the dealer had closed by the time this happened. It looks like another weekend of no camping.


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

Check in the 4" sq metal box on the frame where the cord connects from the truck to the trailer take a look at the big blue wirenut with about 15 white wires(or all the grounds from the lights and brakes) under it. I found the wires where barely tight and not making a good connection. After twisting them all tightly I never had the N.C. or S.H. show up again.

John


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## Jeannie (Oct 26, 2006)

johnp2000 said:


> Check in the 4" sq metal box on the frame where the cord connects from the truck to the trailer take a look at the big blue wirenut with about 15 white wires(or all the grounds from the lights and brakes) under it. I found the wires where barely tight and not making a good connection. After twisting them all tightly I never had the N.C. or S.H. show up again.
> 
> John


DH checked in the box and everything looked okay. Although he did say he wasn't sure what he was looking for. I think we will look one more time. Especially since we both have the 32BHDS and you had the same problem. It would be great if it were a simple fix.

Thanks a bunch for the advice.


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

Jeannie said:


> Check in the 4" sq metal box on the frame where the cord connects from the truck to the trailer take a look at the big blue wirenut with about 15 white wires(or all the grounds from the lights and brakes) under it. I found the wires where barely tight and not making a good connection. After twisting them all tightly I never had the N.C. or S.H. show up again.
> 
> John


DH checked in the box and everything looked okay. Although he did say he wasn't sure what he was looking for. I think we will look one more time. Especially since we both have the 32BHDS and you had the same problem. It would be great if it were a simple fix.

Thanks a bunch for the advice.
[/quote]

The other problem I had was on the front axle door side the wires going from the axle to the brake was crushed and one wire was broken off and touching the the axle. That caused me to lose all brakes every time the wire hit the metal. I cut the wires off that wheel to drive back from FL (3 brakes are better than NONE) on the way home I still got the N.C but never lost total brakes again. After fixing that one wheel and getting a new truck when I still had the N.C. that when I found the loose wires.

Good Luck
John


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## Jeannie (Oct 26, 2006)

johnp2000 said:


> Check in the 4" sq metal box on the frame where the cord connects from the truck to the trailer take a look at the big blue wirenut with about 15 white wires(or all the grounds from the lights and brakes) under it. I found the wires where barely tight and not making a good connection. After twisting them all tightly I never had the N.C. or S.H. show up again.
> 
> John


DH checked in the box and everything looked okay. Although he did say he wasn't sure what he was looking for. I think we will look one more time. Especially since we both have the 32BHDS and you had the same problem. It would be great if it were a simple fix.

Thanks a bunch for the advice.
[/quote]

The other problem I had was on the front axle door side the wires going from the axle to the brake was crushed and one wire was broken off and touching the the axle. That caused me to lose all brakes every time the wire hit the metal. I cut the wires off that wheel to drive back from FL (3 brakes are better than NONE) on the way home I still got the N.C but never lost total brakes again. After fixing that one wheel and getting a new truck when I still had the N.C. that when I found the loose wires.

Good Luck
John
[/quote]

John,

Thank you, thank you,







thank you! Stopped at the storage lot on the way to work this morning. Opened the square box and removed about half of a roll of black elecrical tape from the wiring and the blue wire nut holding all of the white wires came off in my hand; 3 wires were completely disconnected. Twisted all the white wires back together and did the same with all the other wires for good measure we are back on the road.


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

This thread is full of good tips. Once again my appreciation for the owners/moderators and members of this forum needs to be expressed. Make no mistake, this forum played a significant role in our decision to buy an Outback.

-CC


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## Jeannie (Oct 26, 2006)

Jeannie said:


> Check in the 4" sq metal box on the frame where the cord connects from the truck to the trailer take a look at the big blue wirenut with about 15 white wires(or all the grounds from the lights and brakes) under it. I found the wires where barely tight and not making a good connection. After twisting them all tightly I never had the N.C. or S.H. show up again.
> 
> John


DH checked in the box and everything looked okay. Although he did say he wasn't sure what he was looking for. I think we will look one more time. Especially since we both have the 32BHDS and you had the same problem. It would be great if it were a simple fix.

Thanks a bunch for the advice.
[/quote]

The other problem I had was on the front axle door side the wires going from the axle to the brake was crushed and one wire was broken off and touching the the axle. That caused me to lose all brakes every time the wire hit the metal. I cut the wires off that wheel to drive back from FL (3 brakes are better than NONE) on the way home I still got the N.C but never lost total brakes again. After fixing that one wheel and getting a new truck when I still had the N.C. that when I found the loose wires.

Good Luck
John
[/quote]

John,

Thank you, thank you,







thank you! Stopped at the storage lot on the way to work this morning. Opened the square box and removed about half of a roll of black elecrical tape from the wiring and the blue wire nut holding all of the white wires came off in my hand; 3 wires were completely disconnected. Twisted all the white wires back together and did the same with all the other wires for good measure we are back on the road.
[/quote]

Well the trip was short. The brakes went out again before we exited the storage lot. The brakes are still cutting out and when they do work the voltage output is very low or it jumps all over the place. The brake wires under the trailer all look fine. But there sure could be a problem in the future looking at the loose brake wires rubbing on the frame and axle. Maybe the wiring in my truck or the Prodigy itself is the problem. Back to the dealer first thing in the morning. Hopefully we can get on the road by noon and spend one night camping.


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## Jeannie (Oct 26, 2006)

Intermittant loss of brakes mystery has finally been solved. The brake wire on right rear axle was sometimes being pinched by the brake lever. Is this the work of Gilligan? The dealer repaired and re-routed the wire where it can't get pinched again. Yeah, we're going camping.


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## NobleEagle (Jul 8, 2006)

THank you for all of the information on this topic. I would also like to reiterate a post from the past. Someone found a sort/grounding problem in the 4" electrical box found on the frame under the cover that directly relates to the brakes.

The wires for the breakaway switch are feeding into the box through two small holes with no protection from the rough edges. One of these wires is hot all the time and could short against the box and cause the breaker to trip.
The other wire becomes hot if you have a disaster and lose the trailer. If it were to short to ground, you would never know it until you lost the trailer and the brakes failed to activate. Pictures are posted below:

*GILLIGAN'S WORK*​






*FIXED*​


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