# Water Leak In Front Wardrobe



## wicandthing (Jul 11, 2005)

My 2005 23RS has developed yet another leak in the front wardrobe area. The dealership fixed it the first time (or so they say), and swear up and down that it isn't leaking. They even pressure tested it (I don't believe them....). Anyway, the water runs in along the outside wall of the wardrobe, down into the front storage area and out into the window sill on the inside of the camper. The floor below the window also gets wet. The seam of the paneling inside the wardrobe is starting to buckle and separate.

So, has anyone had a leak in this area before? If so, what was the source? The original leak the dealership fixed was where the awning bracket had pulled away from the camper.

I am planning on going out Saturday morning and disassembling the front bunk and wardrobe and start ripping out paneling. I have to get this leak stopped before it ends up rotting out the flooring and paneling.

Thanks for any suggestions!


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## prevish gang (Mar 19, 2006)

Have you checked all your caulking seams? Also look at any lights in that area and check the caulking there. I had a 25RSS and I never saw any leaks but the guy I sold it to said he had a leak in that same area at some point, I think. His name on here is John. Look him up in membership and shoot him a PM. He is kind of a "lurker". He reads here, but doesn't respond to posts. He's a great guy though and I think if you shoot him a PM he will write back. I just can't remember what he told me the problem was.

Darlene


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## jim00592 (Feb 19, 2006)

we have same tt. had same leak in wardrobe and window. the seam from front panel to roof skin was leaking on mine vary small spot by the eage of roof on top. I put caulking on took care of it


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

I had the upper edge of the front cap that started to pull away from the roof, where it meets the side panel (see photo, below).










I noticed this in the early spring last year. Thankfully, I saw it before it started leaking. The weather was too cool to use caulking (about 45 degrees F), but I gooped some on anyway, just to plug up the opening. See below:










It looks ugly in this photo, but it kept moisture from entering. Later in the year, I cleaned it all up and reworked that area by removing all the old (and the new, ugly) caulking. It was then that I noticed that the screw which goes thru the upper (back) edge of the front cap, then thru the roof membrane and backer board (plywood) and then into the aluminum frame tube, was too short and had let go of the frame tube. (Gilligan must have run out of the longer screws.) That allowed the forces caused by the curvature of the front cap to start pulling everything apart.

I used a longer screw to put it all back together, then recaulked all seams at that area and used the self-leveling Dicor roof caulk to seal the seam between the fiberglass cap and the rubber roof membrane. And voila! It looks nearly like new - and more importantly, it doesn't leak.

I don't know if this is the cause of your leak, but it sounds as if it could be, from your description of where the leak is showing up, assuming that you park your trailer and store it nearly level. (This area is right over the wardrobe and the storage area - and it is possible that water could migrate inside the wall and show up in the window.)
Hope this helps.

Mike


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Those front marker lights are fairly notorious for not being caulked well enough.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

BoaterDan said:


> Those front marker lights are fairly notorious for not being caulked well enough.


Yeah, and I had a short-to-ground in the front, upper-right marker light that the dealer fixed under warranty. When I got home, I saw that after replacing the marker light, the tech only caulked the top side - as if no water could work its way through the unsealed bottom when I'm driving down the road at 60 mph in a rainstorm.







So I finished caulking it the rest of the way (silicone). No leaks there yet.

Mike


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## wicandthing (Jul 11, 2005)

Thanks for the feedback guys. I checked the marker light and its caulked all the way around. I "touched" it up last year when the original leak showed up.

I will have to check that top cap seam again and along that front edge. As much water as is getting in, there has to be a hole big enough to see.

I'll post what I find.

Wic


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## wicandthing (Jul 11, 2005)

Well, I got into the camper last weekend and the damage was worse than I expected. The entire inside panel of the wardrobe (attached to the outside wall) was wet and ruined. I ended up pulling/scraping most of it off. I also had to cut the ceiling out in the wardrobe to figure out what was going on. The roof was wet up 6" or so, the front fiberglass was wet and of course the wall.

I couldn't pinpoint the leak, so I took the camper in to the dealer. They pressurized the camper (like they said they did back in November) and found the leak. Every screw from the top of the roof to the curve under the trim piece which runs up the front corner of the camper was leaking. The groove was filling up and water was running in. Also determined that the other side was doing the same thing, just not as bad yet.

So, I would suggest everyone checking the "putty" under all your trim to ensure its not leaking. The dealer said it was a common problem on the Outbacks.

Original estimate from the dealer to repair and replace all the damaged material was $1800. I essentially told them where they could stick it







The person that can adjust the price is out until next Tuesday. And, btw, Keystone basically told me to *Edit *even thought it is obviously a manufacturer defect.

Later!


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

Sorry to hear about the extent of the problem. It's everyone's nightmare.









I'm just beginning to wonder if my next RV will be a Keystone product, given all the problems I've read about on this website. I've had a few problems - one like yours - that could have been as bad as yours, had I not been diligent with inspecting things several times a year. Granted, I'm fairly anal about these kinds of things and tend to look everything over frequently.

But I worry about what I will find each spring, after sitting in the cold all winter, and everything being covered with ice and snow for months at a time. The dealers say, "Don't cover it. It needs to breather. And they were designed to survive the elements." But your problem seems to refute those statements.

It sounds like any of us could find the same type of trouble, at any time - and we'd be on the hook for a couple thousand dollars to get it fixed. Even extended warranties do not cover these types of problems (structural integrity, that is).

I'll just watch this forum and keep track of the number of these types of problems, and how Keystone responds to them. From the sound things, Keystone has an inferior design on putting things together, but it lasts long enough to get through the warranty period. After that, they are not too concerned. (Hey - it's parts sales!)

My condolences.

Mike


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## wicandthing (Jul 11, 2005)

Scoutr2 said:


> Sorry to hear about the extent of the problem. It's everyone's nightmare.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The damage was done over several years from the inside. I only started noticing it once the paper on the paneling started buckling. It took it a while to totally saturate things then whammo! I washed, treated and checked the roof twice a year along with all the marker lights, etc. Unfortunately, the damage was not noticable from the outside, so I never knew what was happening.


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## wicandthing (Jul 11, 2005)

Well, I got my camper back yesterday. Will perform a thorough checkout tomorrow, but from the ground and the inside things look good. I will be getting the ladder out and really inspecting things in the morning.

The dealership had left a light or something on in the camper and totally killed my battery. Had to manually jack the camper up. Even hooked up to the truck, there was no power to the jack. Put the battery on charge when I got home and it was totally dead. Won't take a charge. Called the dealership back and of course they deny everything and refuse to replace the battery. Started telling me how I had not maintained the battery and stuff. What the crap! I used it to remove the camper from the truck when I left it there. And, I had the receipt where I bought the battery in September of 08. The best they want to do is pro-rate it and charge me the difference for a new battery. They are out of their minds!

I noticed when I picked the camper up that they had stopped opening on Saturdays to reduce the staffing needs- i.e. save money. You would think they would be more willing to keep a current customer happy.....

I am seriously considering filing a complaint with the BBB over this whole ordeal.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

wicandthing said:


> I am seriously considering filing a complaint with the BBB over this whole ordeal.


I've filed a few BBB complaints. While they may give you a little piece of mind, they're pretty utterly useless otherwise. You've probably done them more damage with this post than with filing a BBB complaint.


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## wicandthing (Jul 11, 2005)

BoaterDan said:


> I am seriously considering filing a complaint with the BBB over this whole ordeal.


I've filed a few BBB complaints. While they may give you a little piece of mind, they're pretty utterly useless otherwise. You've probably done them more damage with this post than with filing a BBB complaint.








[/quote]

Yeah, and my other concern is they are the only Outback dealer anywhere near where I live......

BTW, after getting it home and looking it over, I can't confirm they actually did the work they claimed they did. It just looks to me like they slathered a bunch of sealant everywhere. I can't tell that they pulled the trim back and replaced the tape at all.

My blood pressure is really boiling with these guys


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## prevish gang (Mar 19, 2006)

Nevermind


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## jetjane (Feb 8, 2007)

You can take your Outback to any Keystone dealer...it doesn't have to be an Outback dealer. I think you just need to talk to Keystone first about it and then they can recommend somewhere else for you.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

jetjane said:


> You can take your Outback to any Keystone dealer...it doesn't have to be an Outback dealer. I think you just need to talk to Keystone first about it and then they can recommend somewhere else for you.


No offense Jane, but that advice must be taken with a grain of salt. Some have indeed had success shopping the service around after the sale, but many of us have learned that other Keystone dealers (especially ones that don't carry Outback) just say they're too busy.


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## wicandthing (Jul 11, 2005)

The problem is the closest Keystone dealer outside of Huntsville (that I have found) is a minimum 1.5 hour drive, if even that close. And, like stated earlier, getting a different dealer to work on it may be impossible.

I had a Starcraft pop-up previously and the dealer I bought it from wouldn't order new tires and rims for me nor would he install them and repack my bearings. I had to drive 45 minutes to a different dealer.

I'm hoping with the economy like it is that the dealers will start hurting enough to give a crap and those of us that stick it out can start getting some real service....

Later!


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## JLAnderson (Sep 13, 2008)

I have a 2008 31RQS. I went into it on the other night to start to put sheets back on the beds so I could sleep in it with the kids this weekend (still chilly here near Chicago, but above freezing this weekend).

I found the bottom of the mattress and the bed support frame wet near the right-side closet. I pulled the mattress into our basement to dry and set up a dehumidifier and a heater. That got the carpet and the bed frame dry.

Friday morning I went up with a ladder and looked at the seals - I still can't see anything obvious. It has been raining again, and I'm seeing water coming in at the top edge of the closet along the wall.

I put up the ladder again, and didn't see anything obvious on the roof. It makes sense that it may be coming in somewhere along the cap edge seal (under the trim cover). I'll be calling the dealer Monday morning to see when I can get the camper in.

We picked it up in September, so hopefully it will still be covered. The interior wood still feels solid, so hopefully nothing has rotted yet. The mattress also doesn't have obvious mold, so this has started recently (although with the winter we've had, there haven't been many above-freezing days for water to seep in).

I'll post feedback from the dealer.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

JLAnderson said:


> I have a 2008 31RQS...


I had the exact same experience in the same spot in the same model - right down to looking myself and not seeing any obvious places it was leaking.

Dealer did the pressure test and repaired something that was leaking (don't remember if it was the marker light or the roof seam), and I've never had another problem since. Knock on wood.

Oh yeah, it was definitely covered under warranty.


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## JLAnderson (Sep 13, 2008)

BoaterDan said:


> I have a 2008 31RQS...


I had the exact same experience in the same spot in the same model - right down to looking myself and not seeing any obvious places it was leaking.

Dealer did the pressure test and repaired something that was leaking (don't remember if it was the marker light or the roof seam), and I've never had another problem since. Knock on wood.

Oh yeah, it was definitely covered under warranty.
[/quote]

Thanks! I really appreciate the news.

I'll be calling both the dealer I purchased from and the local Keystone dealer tomorrow. Hopefully, this will be covered by the warranty as well. In the interim, I've been running a heater and a dehumidifier about half the time to try to keep it dried out as much as possible. The good news is that the mattress doesn't seem too much the worse for wear, I can't see any obvious damage inside, and it's supposed to dry up around here for the next week or so (except for Tuesday).

BTW, the portable dehumidifier I bought (a Soleus Air CFM-40) seems to do a pretty good job so far, and seem s quiet. I'm going to try to bring it with for cool-weather camping and see how it does on handling humidity during the night - see if we can eliminate waking up to condensation-coated windows.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

JLAnderson said:


> BTW, the portable dehumidifier I bought (a Soleus Air CFM-40) seems to do a pretty good job so far, and seem s quiet. I'm going to try to bring it with for cool-weather camping and see how it does on handling humidity during the night - see if we can eliminate waking up to condensation-coated windows.


As you probably know, drying things out too much can be bad too, so be careful. Condensation on the windows is not necessarily a sign of too much humidity.


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## mike (Dec 17, 2006)

jl anderson, 1. where did u buy ur tt from, the guys at timberview are pretty good and somewhat local from lombard. 2. We are having a spring roll out rally in may. U are more than welcome to join us. Its usually a good time and this year it is in Rockford which is close for us. Hope to see u guys.


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## wicandthing (Jul 11, 2005)

Sorry to hear you are having problems too. My leak turned out to be deteriorated tape under the corner trim on both front corners. The dealer supposedly replaced the tape and resealed everything, but I can't tell they did anyting other than smear some koolseal around and calk along the edges.  Of course the only way I can prove them wrong is to tear it all apart....

I got our damage repaired weekend before last. Ended up ripping out the messed up interior panel, putting a new piece of plywood over it, painting and fauxing to match the interior walls and sealing it. Also went ahead and put a new drawer in the bottom of the wardrobe where the false front is. Thank God for having a woodshop at the house!

I will try to get some pictures up soon....

Wic


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## JLAnderson (Sep 13, 2008)

mike said:


> jl anderson, 1. where did u buy ur tt from, the guys at timberview are pretty good and somewhat local from lombard. 2. We are having a spring roll out rally in may. U are more than welcome to join us. Its usually a good time and this year it is in Rockford which is close for us. Hope to see u guys.


Bought it from Lakeshore RV in MI; taking it to Timberview tomorrow.

Don't know if I can make the rally. We have a rotating Emergency Duty schedule at work (I work for the local utility), and I think I'm on then. It's pretty tough to switch.


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## mike (Dec 17, 2006)

Both myself and h20sprayer are fireman so we know emergency duty. Did u talk to timberview and make sure you stop by Paul and tell him I said hi!. They are great people over there and I may be upgrading to a 27rsds from them real soon!


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