# Question For The Dry Camping Guru's...*update*



## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

This past week we returned from our annual 1 week camping trip, this year we experimented with extended dry camping. The following occurred...
The first night, after about 1 hour set up, the lights began blinking and the Co2 detector chirped. I checked the battery level on the moniter, only one light showed. Discovered that I hadn't checked the fluid levels of the battery prior to lift off, and 4 of the cells were dry. Topped them off, backed the truck up plugged her in and made it through the night.
The next day, bought a second 12 volt deep cycle, two cables and set them up in parallel. Ran the generator for a couple of hours, and everything seemed OK.
The third day, again after running the generator for a couple of hours,the lights blinked again and the monitor showed low battery power. huh?
For the next few days I did the balancing act between running the gen, limited use of the lights etc., and made it through the week.
Back at home, I used my volt meter, and checked the batteries. After they were plugged into 110 for a day or so, they showed 12.85 volts each. Re-hooked them in parallel, unplugged the camper from the house. I then went in, turned on the three main lights and the radio- and the lights statrted blinking again, and the co2 detector chirped. The monitor showed one power bar. Shut everything off, checked the batteries again, and viola! 12.85 volts. According to the "12 volt side of life", thats 100% peak power. ?
For all you dry campers- is this normal? are you not supposed to have more that one light on in the trailer at a time? I have replaced most of the 7 watt bulbs with the 4's, so I thought I was helping- but it doesn't seem to matter.

Am I missing something? The batteries are obviously charging, but they dont seem to feed back to the camper (properly). I am ruling out fuses, because if one is blown, than it's not a two way street (so to speak). Power in, power out.
Is there a fuseable link I am tripping? The owners manual doesn't indicate there is one, but then again the owners manual for the RQS is probaly the same for the 21RS. Could my inverter be headed south? Whereas the RQS is only a year old, I hope this isn't the issue.

Sorry for the long post, and I tried doing a search on many websites, to no avail. Any thoughts out there?

Thanks, Kevin


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

It is a dirty or bad connection to the 50 amp auto reset breaker next to the battery.

Try this test, turn on a few lights and check the voltage at the batteries and the converter. If you see a big drop at the converter you have a bad or dirty connection between the batteries and the converter.

FYI - the battery that had four cells very low, if the plates were exposed then the battery may be toast.


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

Thanks Andy for the quick response.

I presently have one main light on, and two over the bunks. with those on, the batteries show 12.74 volts. Which, according to the 12 volt site, is 100%. However, in checking the panel, it shows only one bar of power.
Now at the frame, near the battery, are two small boxes (which I am assuming one of them is the 50 amp auto reset breaker) which one is which, I'll try to figure out. I will clean those connections, as well as the battery ground, and see if that corrects this.
I too, thought maybe the one battery was lunched, but it seems to be holding a full charge (12.86). I will be monitoring though over the next few days, and we will see.

On Edit- I turned on alot of lights, including the radio. Whee the lights began to flash, I checked the batteries, and they jumped between 12.50 to 12.57. I then checked the voltage at the breakers, and they were less, but not by much. But then again, any change from the battery terminal to the outgoing breaker, would indicate a problem. On Sunday I will pull the panel on the back side of the inverter, and see what the incoming voltage is.

Whats up with that silly little red "hat" they put over the breaker(s)? is that supposed to protect them from the elements? I see a future mod to enclose them (and the junction box) in something a little more weather tight...


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## Ridgway-Rangers (Apr 18, 2008)

I installed one of these  (Voltminder) inside the trailer just outside the control box. It's nice to see the status of your batteries at any given time. I also installed a three phase charger, The old one was a single phase, I can see when the charging voltage drops. This lets me know how far along I am in the charging phase. 
I'm thinking CamperAndy is correct and I'll bet you fried the one battery. With one fried battery in parallel with a good battery, you generally loose any reserve in both batteries.


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

Their are two electrical parts to a battery Volts and Amps. You can have the right amount of volts but not enough amps to run the lights. I would pull the battery and take it to the local auto parts store and have a load test put on the battery. James


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

Thanks James, thats a good idea...was wondering how you can tell if the battery is still "pulling it's wieght", so to speak. In hindsight though, I wish I knew that the original battery was breathing it's last, as I would have invested in 2 6 volt trojans. Now I will have invested in 2 deep 12's. Anyone in New England want to buy a brand new 12 volt deep cycle Gaurdian battery, group 24?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

"The silly red hat" is to protect the terminals from the elements but as you can see they do not do much. The 50 amp breaker will be the first one connected to the battery.

Try the test with only the new battery and see how well it works. Then try with the old battery. The main incoming battery terminals to the converter can be seen on the front center of the converter panel. Use a volt meter and not the control panel.

As Garethsdad pointed out there are two elements to what you get from the battery. With a correctly working system you should get plenty of amps and stable voltage. The more you turn on the more amps that you pull but should still maintain a stable voltage. If there is a restriction (dirty connection) the voltage will be restricted and since the devices try to maintain a constant current (through the lights) voltage will drop at the device. So the check I asked you to carry out will determine if there is a restriction (high resistance) between the battery and the device.


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

Make sure the door heaters are shut off on the fridge that will drain the batteries fast.

John


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

Wait till you see my whip with those new sneakers... as soon as I figure out how to post the pictures in the gallery!


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

Yeh I was wondering if you ever put them on.

John


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## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

Yep...something is not right. We have dry camped while running the furnace for three nights and still had 2/3 when we departed. We ran dual 12-volts.

Randy


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

If your lights and everything is fine when plugged in but not on battery check your ground connections at the battery and on the frame under the trailer near where the converter is located there should be a bare copper and a white wire on a lug. You could also pull the converter out (unplug the power cord first)and check the ground bar they put on the floor.The service call for me to go out to the Cape would make those tires seem real cheap









John


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

***UPDATE*** Well, after pulling the original battery and having it tested, it showed that it was toast. It showed a voltage of 12.65, but with a momentary load against it, it didn't bounce right back. So, another new battery was needed.
Now with the batteries out, I took the small Breaker/Fuse combination off from against the frame rail, and wired brushed the post's bright and shiney. Cleaned the wire loop ends, cleaned the grounding point, and hooked them back up, making sure I coated everything with Dielectric ointment. Topped off the batteries overnight, and checked everything this AM. Threw on a bunch of lights, and the blinking started again. At the Batteries, 12.65 V. at the inside posts, at the converter, 12.50. ? Throw a switch inside for lights, and the voltage drops to 11.9 at the inside posts.

I then checked volts at the exterior. Ground on Battery, positive probe on incoming post of the 50 amp breaker, 12.65 V. At the output post on same breaker, 12.51 V. I am losing .10 volt for straight power at this breaker, before any load. I guess my next step is to replace this breaker, unless someone else see's some glaring error on my part. The power to the inverter comes from this last point, before the inverter, and it must go through the plastic fuse after coming from the first breaker. My only question was, can a breaker partially fail like that? I thought they either worked, or they didn't.


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## bentpixel (Sep 2, 2006)

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> ***UPDATE*** ..., and the blinking started again. ...


This sounds like a lose or short circuit somewhere on the 12 bus. After the batteries, check the wire-nuts in j-box located near the batteries. I have several leads coming off the +12 line. My outside hitch light and the light inside the pass-thru storage are powered before the 12v distribution panel. The voltage drop (.10) may not be a factor. Under load, I have measured ~11.8 volts with several lights on; voltage jumps back up with the lights out.

Hope this helps.
Scott


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

bentpixel said:


> ***UPDATE*** ..., and the blinking started again. ...


This sounds like a lose or short circuit somewhere on the 12 bus. After the batteries, check the wire-nuts in j-box located near the batteries. I have several leads coming off the +12 line. My outside hitch light and the light inside the pass-thru storage are powered before the 12v distribution panel. The voltage drop (.10) may not be a factor. Under load, I have measured ~11.8 volts with several lights on; voltage jumps back up with the lights out.

Hope this helps.
Scott
[/quote]

I pulled the panel so I could access the rear of the converter. Checked the 12 volt ground bus (all solid), and followed the positive cable down into the depths below. I am assuming that cable runs to the tongue, and off the second small (relay? Fuse? breaker?). My next step is to replace the breaker/Fuse combination.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

If you have a .1 vdc drop across the 50 amp auto reset thermal breaker then you need to replace it. It must be getting warm. It now sounds like you may have had the post over tightened spinning the post and creating a bad connection internal of the breaker and it may be cycling when you have a load going through it.


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

I turned on all the lights inside, and when the lights started blinking, I went to the out going stud from the 50 amp thermal breaker and sure enough- when the lights/co2 detector blinked/beeped, the voltage dropped down to .50 volts- when it bounced back up to 12.55, the lights came on momentarily. The numbers on the display were changing- spinning as fast as the gas pump when I'm filling the magic bus. As this was the problem from the get go, I guess the breaker went south long before I ever set a wrench on it (probably the same time the original battery gave up the ghost).


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

You're getting lots of specific advice, but one thing is you can't really measure a battery's voltage while it's under a load. It won't be accurate. Those lights don't seem like much but they add up quick (hence the mod to switch to LED). I'm just speaking generally, not in the context of those specific tests.

Start with a fully charged battery and push the battery meter button while drawing a big load like putting out your slide and you'll see it drop way down then "bounce" back when you stop moving the slide.

Similarly, if you measure the voltage immediately after turning off the charger, you're getting a false high reading.


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## bentpixel (Sep 2, 2006)

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> I turned on all the lights inside, and when the lights started blinking, I went to the out going stud from the 50 amp thermal breaker and sure enough- when the lights/co2 detector blinked/beeped, the voltage dropped down to .50 volts- when it bounced back up to 12.55, the lights came on momentarily. The numbers on the display were changing- spinning as fast as the gas pump when I'm filling the magic bus. As this was the problem from the get go, I guess the breaker went south long before I ever set a wrench on it (probably the same time the original battery gave up the ghost).










nice work.


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

I have updated the original post, so if anyone experiences this problem- the "interior lights flashing" a search will help them find this post.
It turned out that the 50 amp thermal breaker had failed. Once I replaced this, everything appears to be fine. Of course, to compound the situation, I had a bad cell on my original battery (my fault, didn't keep up with the water levels on the batteries).

Now I fully believe that the breaker failed because it is not exactly protected from the weather. Keystone installs these little red weather caps on the terminals, but it doesnt protect the body of the breaker or the fuse.

I am in the process of creating a weather tight grey exterior junction box to house these two important peices of electronics, just waiting for about 8 hours of "Dad time" to devote to it. Right now, I have an overturned kiddy pool covering the batteries/ junction box. Stay tuned for photos of this mod.

Thanks to Camper Andy, Bentpixel, Boater Dan, and Gareths dad for the fast suggestions!


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> I have updated the original post, so if anyone experiences this problem- the "interior lights flashing" a search will help them find this post.
> It turned out that the 50 amp thermal breaker had failed. Once I replaced this, everything appears to be fine. Of course, to compound the situation, I had a bad cell on my original battery (my fault, didn't keep up with the water levels on the batteries).
> 
> Now I fully believe that the breaker failed because it is not exactly protected from the weather. Keystone installs these little red weather caps on the terminals, but it doesnt protect the body of the breaker or the fuse.
> ...


Trying something like this I would guess?

Label all wires before disconnecting!


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Glad you figured out the problem...








Hopefully your thread will help someone else out someday...
Photos of your mod will be a bonus


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

Nathan said:


> I have updated the original post, so if anyone experiences this problem- the "interior lights flashing" a search will help them find this post.
> It turned out that the 50 amp thermal breaker had failed. Once I replaced this, everything appears to be fine. Of course, to compound the situation, I had a bad cell on my original battery (my fault, didn't keep up with the water levels on the batteries).
> 
> Now I fully believe that the breaker failed because it is not exactly protected from the weather. Keystone installs these little red weather caps on the terminals, but it doesnt protect the body of the breaker or the fuse.
> ...


Trying something like this I would guess?

Label all wires before disconnecting!








[/quote]

Ding Ding Ding! we have a winner! That is exactly what I'm going to do.... Now to find the time...


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> Ding Ding Ding! we have a winner! That is exactly what I'm going to do.... Now to find the time...


I spent 2-3 hours. It wasn't the technical difficulty, but every wire is barely long enough, and the two standard depth boxes I bought were barely deep enough. Get the deepest boxes you can!


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

If you're going to go that route, you might want to consider putting in some kind of battery disconnect too. I think the automotive kind for race cars could mount on the junction box, or you could put in the marine kind somewhere in the line to the junction boxes.


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

Great thread everyone. I learned alot. I will doing this upgrade

Thor


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