# 28krs?



## routeman (Apr 27, 2008)

Hi ..I'm interesting in buying a 28 krs and towing it with my 2007 Harley Davidson Ford F-150 300 horsepower 3.73 1/2 ton pick up truck. Ford says it can tow 9500 lbs. The 28 krs is 6100 lbs empty..I'll be putting my 700 pound bike in the cargo area. It's me, maybe a friend, and my small dog. The total weight being towed will probably approach 8,000 lbs. Both Lakeshore Rv and a rep from Keystone have told me that my vehicle can pull either the 23krs or 28krs but I"m wondering what the members here can tell me. I live in south Florida and do not expect to be travelling in mountains frequently. Any insights would be appreciated....Jerry


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## OregonCampin (Mar 9, 2007)

routeman said:


> Hi ..I'm interesting in buying a 28 krs and towing it with my 2007 Harley Davidson Ford F-150 300 horsepower 3.73 1/2 ton pick up truck. Ford says it can tow 9500 lbs. The 28 krs is 6100 lbs empty..I'll be putting my 700 pound bike in the cargo area. It's me, maybe a friend, and my small dog. The total weight being towed will probably approach 8,000 lbs. Both Lakeshore Rv and a rep from Keystone have told me that my vehicle can pull either the 23krs or 28krs but I"m wondering what the members here can tell me. I live in south Florida and do not expect to be travelling in mountains frequently. Any insights would be appreciated....Jerry


I am thinking you may be able to pull physically, but you are going to have the same issues we had with our 23KRS and our F150.

1st - the trailer is going to weigh a lot more that 6100 lbs. You can add the 700 lb bike, plus probably 500 or so in water, gear, propane, battery, etc.

2nd - Tongue Weight. The hitch on our F150 was only rated for 1200 lbs with the weight distribution hitch. 2 full sized dirt bikes, 2 batteries, full propane, etc puts our tongue weight at 1250 and that is with water in the fresh water tank to help offset the weight on the tongue.

3rd - If you are planning on traveling over any mountian passes (we have some pretty steep passes here in Oregon), that engine is gonna stuggle.

Do the whole math before you decide. You may want to consider the 23KRS, expecially if you are going to be hauling the bike a lot. We had an older F150 that did not have the towing capacity of the newer ones and we travel over mountians almost every time we camp (we live smack dab in the middle of two mountian ranges). Also, check your tires on the F150 - the P rated tires that come on most of the pickups are not really stable enough to pull that kind of weight.

Good luck with your search and welcome!

Shannon


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

I was pulling a 28RSDS with a F150. Yes, the truck can technically pull it(if you keep weights in check). However, a strong wind gust would really push us around (not sway, just lack of ability to keep it in the lane). I also had 2 emergency manuvers in my summer of towing where I was essentially powerless. Both times, someone tried to merge into me in traffic. With that much weight behind any 1/2 ton truck, it was not fun.









I just picked up the solution to my problems, and I can't wait to try it out


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## routeman (Apr 27, 2008)

Thank you both for your input and info. Also good luck with your new truck. I"m going to go over to Palm Beach Rv today with a visiting friend to see the difference first hand between the 2 models (23 and 28krs). I think I"m starting to lean towards the 23 because I suspect it'll be easier to tow, park, stop for gas, back in, change lanes etc....but that 28krs is a better value at only 3 grand more. We'll see. Thanks again..any suggestions are welcome...jerry


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

routeman said:


> ....but that 28krs is a better value at only 3 grand more.


Ask any of us who upgraded recently what the truck ran, and the 28 won't be as good of a "value"


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## bbwb (Apr 4, 2008)

Hi Jerry:
I just went through this on our 23rs...I pull with an '06 GMC, 310 hp 1/2 ton with 4wd and 3.42 rear end. Our first pulling with it was OK on the flats, but when I got into a head wind and hills; I had trouble maintaining speed. I have just change the rear end gear ratio to 4.10 and have yet to pull the camper. I am well within the weights and capacity of the truck, but just had trouble with the wind resistance. 
bbwb


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

We pull our 28krs with an '07 Toy Tundra with 4.1 gears through the mtns of New England and she hardly knows its back there. Not all '1/2 tons' are created equal


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

wolfwood said:


> We pull our 28krs with an '07 Toy Tundra with 4.1 gears through the mtns of New England and she hardly knows its back there. Not all '1/2 tons' are created equal


Ok wolfie, let's not get distracted by HP and Torque







. The F150 with a 3.73 rear end _can_ pull the trailer (Mine could do it with the 3.55 rear end). The Toy and Nissan can pull it faster, but you still have to have the frame, suspension, and brakes







. The real question is 1/2 ton truck payloads and the overall length of the trailer. In those aspects, 1/2 tons are created fairly equally (I think our payloads were ~50lbs different before my little upgrade).









Now assume a 1200 lb TW on the 28' trailer, and you'd better pack any 1/2 ton awfully light to keep it under a 1500 lb - 2000 lb max payload (depending on body style, etc).









For us last summer we had 2 adults and 2 kids in child seats with a beagle between them. That's 300 lbs of additional "payload." So assume that 80% of the TW was on the truck: 1600-960-300= 340 lbs. We "carried" a tonneau cover (~50lbs), a bed liner (~40lbs), 3 bicycles +1 bike trailer (~150lbs total), the wdh setup (50lbs), the tote tank (40lbs), and some games, snacks and drinks for the kids (10lbs).
So now you have 1600-960-300-50-40-150-50-40-10=0lbs

So I was ok as long as I didn't pick up fast food for lunch.


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Nathan said:


> We pull our 28krs with an '07 Toy Tundra with 4.1 gears through the mtns of New England and she hardly knows its back there. Not all '1/2 tons' are created equal


Ok wolfie, let's not get distracted by HP and Torque







. The F150 with a 3.73 rear end _can_ pull the trailer (Mine could do it with the 3.55 rear end). The Toy and Nissan can pull it faster, but you still have to have the frame, suspension, and brakes







. The real question is 1/2 ton truck payloads and the overall length of the trailer. In those aspects, 1/2 tons are created fairly equally (I think our payloads were ~50lbs different before my little upgrade).









Now assume a 1200 lb TW on the 28' trailer, and you'd better pack any 1/2 ton awfully light to keep it under a 1500 lb - 2000 lb max payload (depending on body style, etc).









For us last summer we had 2 adults and 2 kids in child seats with a beagle between them. That's 300 lbs of additional "payload." So assume that 80% of the TW was on the truck: 1600-960-300= 340 lbs. We "carried" a tonneau cover (~50lbs), a bed liner (~40lbs), 3 bicycles +1 bike trailer (~150lbs total), the wdh setup (50lbs), the tote tank (40lbs), and some games, snacks and drinks for the kids (10lbs).
So now you have 1600-960-300-50-40-150-50-40-10=0lbs

So I was ok as long as I didn't pick up fast food for lunch.








[/quote]

Good point Nathan, the problem of being able to tow a trailer and being at or over capacity doing it. Whether it feels like it's back there or not, a truck at or close to full capacity is going to wear out sooner than if there is some payload capacity left over.

Our 1/2 ton yukon after adding camping gear, 1/2 tank of gas and no passengers had an available payload of 1300#. Add 700# for tongue weight, 500# for passengers, top off the tank and we were at or slightly over full capacity. That's the problem with pretty much all 1/2 ton trucks, they can pull the weight of a larger trailer but are at or over GVW doing it. Not very good for the longevity of a truck, we discovered that as our yukon got older, the repair bills for the drivetrain and suspension kept getting bigger. Can't have a nice car like ride AND pull a big trailer, it's either one or the other.

For comparison our 3/4 ton truck has an available payload of approx. 2700#, add 700# for tongue weight, 500# for passengers, 300# for extra gear and there's more than 1000# of payloa capacity to spare, no comparison to a 1/2 ton. Tow a trailer with a 1200# tongue weight you're starting to creep up on the capacity of a 3/4 ton truck.

Mike


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## 1STONE (Apr 22, 2008)

well now you have me wondering as well, I have a 05 Ram 1500 equipped with the tow group 3.92 axle ratio 5.7 hemi set up, looking to go to a 23-28 krs as well, should I reconsider, I don't want to put anyone or my fam. in jeapordy???


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## firfyter (Jan 15, 2008)

Your truck will do a great job. It has much more HP than my Ford. You should have no trouble at all. Be careful on that bike though.


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## malibutay (Sep 5, 2007)

Don’t forget about the WD hitch that puts about 1/3 of that tongue weight on the trailer.


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

> Don't forget about the WD hitch that puts about 1/3 of that tongue weight on the trailer.


It's a lot less than that, most stays on the truck.



> Your truck will do a great job. It has much more HP than my Ford. You should have no trouble at all. Be careful on that bike though


Weight has more to do with what you can tow than horsepower. Crunch the numbers and see where you come out. Here's an online calculator

towing calculator

Mike


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## russk42 (Sep 10, 2007)

routeman said:


> Both Lakeshore Rv and a rep from Keystone have told me that my vehicle can pull either the 23krs or 28krs


I wouldn't trust anything the reps tell you, unless you could get it in writing on company letterhead. i'd suggest that you get a true weight (on a truck scale) BEFORE you buy. Weigh your truck as well, it may be more than you think.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

1STONE said:


> well now you have me wondering as well, I have a 05 Ram 1500 equipped with the tow group 3.92 axle ratio 5.7 hemi set up, looking to go to a 23-28 krs as well, should I reconsider, I don't want to put anyone or my fam. in jeapordy???


Run the weights for your setup. Post a topic for members who have weighed their 23krs and 28krs trailers. I was shocked at the TW of my trailer, and it doesn't haul "toys." I know the toyhaulers are reporting very high tounge weights as well. Everyone should check weights and be safe. If you have your heart set on the bigger trailer, then it's ok, you just need to factor in the cost of a bigger truck


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## 1STONE (Apr 22, 2008)

thank you very much, I will have to keep an eye out here then tally some #'s before my final decision, you know even working for Dodge Service for 13 years I am still skeptical on all these weight classifications, maybe I can buy a new Hummer and tow with that, I now work at Hummer Service hahaha


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

camping479 said:


> Good point Nathan, the problem of being able to tow a trailer and being at or over capacity doing it.


Not sure who said it here once, but I still think it is the best advise yet on towing. Was something like, I can "tow" my Outback with my riding lawn mower....stopping and maneuvering the Outback requires a proper TV.

I think a lot of time people only think about if the TV can "pull" their trailer....stopping and controlling is really the majority of the effort involved in towing. IMHO.


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## OregonCampin (Mar 9, 2007)

Nathan said:


> Run the weights for your setup. Post a topic for members who have weighed their 23krs and 28krs trailers. I was shocked at the TW of my trailer, and it doesn't haul "toys." I know the toyhaulers are reporting very high tounge weights as well. Everyone should check weights and be safe. If you have your heart set on the bigger trailer, then it's ok, you just need to factor in the cost of a bigger truck


1250 lbs of tongue weight with 2 full sized dirt bikes - KTM 450 - 247lbs dry and KTM 525 - 247 lbs dry (actual weights unknown) plus other gear in the garage (ax, shovel, rear slide bars, riding gear), 2 6 volt batteries and 1 full propane tank. This was with water in the fresh tank which sits behind the axles which should give it some offset. Way too much for the standard hitch and tires on a half ton pickup.


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## NobleEagle (Jul 8, 2006)

I agree with the OC. It's much like people that think they can drive through any snow storm because they have 4 wheel drive. The only thing they are forgetting is they don't have 4 wheel STOP. The 1/2 ton may be able to pull it, and it may not know its back there...But can it do it safely? Think about the one time you get a really strong cross wind, or you have to panic stop, will the tail wag the dog? It's not only the suspension and weight capacities that are different in the 1/2, 3/4, and 1 ton trucks, it's the size and ability of the brakes too.
I live in Florida where it's flat and when we got our 28KRS, I loaded my 800+ lb bike (along with all the other cr*!% errrr stuff) in it and went about an hour away for our family trip. Yes, it could pull it, but there were definite white knuckle experiences. Being a real truck driver with up to 80,000 lb loads and experiencing cross winds and how big trucks handle, I was certainly not pleased with the 1/2 ton pulling the 28KRS with the bike in it. 
Everything is a tradeoff, yes I know I went overkill and I pay a lot more in gas bills for my TV right now but it's all I could afford to do the job of pulling my TT and bike SAFELY. I now have an '88 F350 dually and it not only can stop well (especially at gas stations), and pull well, but it does it with no effort. You can practically watch my gas gauge move but I'll fix that problem when finances permit. I am NOT saying everyone should have a dually or go with a 1 ton. However, I am saying we all want to hear that it's okay to pull a 50 foot trailer in the snowy mountains with a Mini Cooper and it will do it safely. But that's just not the case. I would highly recommend either upgrading to at least a 3/4 ton vehicle for the 28KRS or if you are intending to keep the 1/2 ton, I would go with the 23KRS. I know either of those setups (from many conversations and seeing others say the same thing) will provide many years of happy SAFE memories. Your family and fellow drivers on the road depend on your decision to be safe. Good luck with whatever you decide and please keep us posted.

Just my 2¢


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## routeman (Apr 27, 2008)

Thank you NobleEagle......your post best reflects my situation, you being in Florida and having experience actually towing the 28krs firsthand. MyF-150 is new and maxed out, so upgrading isn't an option. Pushing the limits doesn't make for peace of mind. I think I"ll have to "make do" with that 23krs!....Jerry


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## biga (Apr 17, 2006)

I think you are making a good choice going with the 23krs. We had planned to tow with my grandmother's '97 F-150. We were "within" the limits of the truck, but we towed to the campground on our first trip (about 50 miles) and already knew we would be buying a bigger truck. It towed great with an empty camper, but as soon as we added our bikes (1000 lbs) and a full tank of water, it was obvious the truck was over matched.

We borrowed "Big Red" ('00 Chevy 2500) for our next trip, and started the process of buying it.


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## JohnnyDangerously (Feb 25, 2008)

Here's another vote for the 23KRS - 1/2 ton combo. We tow with a Nissan Titan and REALLY wanted the 28KRS... but thanks to good feedback from the folks on this forum, we chose the 23. I'm satisfied now that we made the right choice.


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## HDOutbackers (Feb 28, 2008)

When we started the process of picking a trailer we had an 02 F-150. I was looking at the at 23 KRS. After adding all the weights up and looking at the tow capacity for the 02, I was having to give the whole idea of TT a serious second thought.

It just so happened we looked at the 31KFW "just to see what they looked like" on the dealer lot. We fell in love with the floor plan and we now drive an F-250. I am thrilled with the way it handles. If you are looking at upgrading trucks, the 31KFW was not that much more than the 28KRS. I got mine for about $3500 more than the 28KRS was listed for. 5th wheel handling is a much better tow.

Happy hunting......


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## bbwb (Apr 4, 2008)

I think you will be much happier with the smaller trailer.

bbwb


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Let us know what you decide to do.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Kathy here - Wolfie's resident mechanic and fearful person par excellence.









There is such good information and so much experience on this forum that everyone learns something new. I must chime in, though, on a few things. As everyone knows, we have a 2007 Tundra (aka a 1/2 ton) and a 28KRS. The specs on the 28 says the *max* weight on the trailer is 7000 lbs. At 10 - 15% of the trailer's weight on the tongue, that implies that the tongue weight max should be 1050. If you add 300 lbs of people and a couple of hundred (MAX) of stuff (to the truck), you're at about 1500 lbs on the truck. The truck is rated to tow 10,000 lbs, so we've got about a 30% safety factor.

We have towed this rig into the White Mountains of New Hampshire and the Poconos in Pennsylvania and the Catskills in New York State. We have had several panic stops and the truck and trailer didn't budge an inch out of place. This may be because we pull with a Hensley Arrow hitch. There is no sway, no getting pushed around by 40 mph winds, and no screeching, lurching, or pushing in a 60+ mph panic stop. I believe it's not only attributable to the hitch, but the truck as well. The brakes are larger than a standard 1/2 ton, as is the transmission. I've never towed with another 1/2 ton and they are obviously not all the same. btw, we also get 10 - 12 mpg on regular gas while towing.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the whole package needs to be evaluated and all variables taken into consideration. If it's close to the max, don't do it. Spend a little more to get appropriate safety/weight/capacity margins and you won't regret it.

Thanks to everyone for their great insight.


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## peacemakerpete (Mar 28, 2008)

wolfwood said:


> Kathy here - Wolfie's resident mechanic and fearful person par excellence.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info, Kathy! Does your 2007 Tundra have aftermarket airbags for the rear suspension (similiar to Firestone Riderite?
Thanks!
Peacemaker Pete with a Toyota and looking for a 23KRS or 28KRS in Washington State


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

peacemakerpete said:


> Thanks for the info, Kathy! Does your 2007 Tundra have aftermarket airbags for the rear suspension (similiar to Firestone Riderite?
> Thanks!
> Peacemaker Pete with a Toyota and looking for a 23KRS or 28KRS in Washington State


Hi Peacemaker Pete, 
Our Tundra is stock - a 2007, with the 5.7 l engine, 4.10 gears, and TRD package, which means we have the Bilstein shocks and an upgraded suspension package. It's a beast. The towing package also has a special "tow/haul" mode, which allows for increased engine braking. If you look at the specs on this new generation Tundra, they've really worked this truck over. It has huge brakes, which is another "peace of mind" thing with towing. A comment on the suspension, I can tell you that when we hitch up the trailer the bed does not sink under the tongue weight. One last thing is that we do tow with a Hensley, owned pre-Tundra, just as additional insurance. It doesn't affect the suspension or braking per se, but it ensures completely reliable tracking in all situations. We are fully comfortable towing the 28KRS.

Hope this helps and happy adventuring!
Kathy


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## raynardo (Jun 8, 2007)

firfyter said:


> Your truck will do a great job. It has much more HP than my Ford. You should have no trouble at all. Be careful on that bike though.


With gearing equal:
Horsepower = top speed
Torque = acceleration

So, if you're towing a trailer, torque is probably more important than horsepower.


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## CCRLW (May 9, 2008)

OK now I am freaked out! I just bought a 28KRS and I plan on towing it with a 07 Ford Expedition. Is this mistake? My specs and dealer says it should tow with no problem. Am I looking for trouble?

Thank You.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

CCRLW said:


> OK now I am freaked out! I just bought a 28KRS and I plan on towing it with a 07 Ford Expedition. Is this mistake? My specs and dealer says it should tow with no problem. Am I looking for trouble?
> 
> Thank You.


Check the weights first of all. I'm not sure what you are planning on carrying in it, but if it's a big "toy" you will probably be way over the load carrying capacity of that Expedition.








Check out the Ford Towing Guide for more info on your capacities


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## CCRLW (May 9, 2008)

Nathan said:


> OK now I am freaked out! I just bought a 28KRS and I plan on towing it with a 07 Ford Expedition. Is this mistake? My specs and dealer says it should tow with no problem. Am I looking for trouble?
> 
> Thank You.


Check the weights first of all. I'm not sure what you are planning on carrying in it, but if it's a big "toy" you will probably be way over the load carrying capacity of that Expedition.








Check out the Ford Towing Guide for more info on your capacities
[/quote]

Ok Thank you. I checked the load carrying capacity of the expedition it says 9,200 lbs. The 28KRS says 6,095 lbs (Shipping Wt.) That leaves a supposed wieght aloowance of 3,105 lbs. How much wieght allowance should I leave myself to play with?The 28KRS also says it has a carrying capacity of 1,480 lbs. Input on this would be greatly appreciated, due to me being a first time trailer owner. Thanks in advance.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

CCRLW said:


> Ok Thank you. I checked the load carrying capacity of the expedition it says 9,200 lbs. The 28KRS says 6,095 lbs (Shipping Wt.) That leaves a supposed wieght aloowance of 3,105 lbs. How much wieght allowance should I leave myself to play with?The 28KRS also says it has a carrying capacity of 1,480 lbs. Input on this would be greatly appreciated, due to me being a first time trailer owner. Thanks in advance.


The issue is the TW of the 28kRS. The Expedition can handle 920 lbs of TW. For a more accurate weight, you need the payload capacity of the Expy. Take the GVWR and subtract the base weight to get what passengers, cargo, and TW can be (combined). The part that concerns me is I hear the 28KRS owners reporting TW's of closer to 1200 lbs. That would put you way over the manufacturer's ratings. Many of us (me included) have found things not to be very comfortable running at the max rating...


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

CCRLW said:


> OK now I am freaked out! I just bought a 28KRS and I plan on towing it with a 07 Ford Expedition. Is this mistake? My specs and dealer says it should tow with no problem. Am I looking for trouble?
> 
> Thank You.


Check the weights first of all. I'm not sure what you are planning on carrying in it, but if it's a big "toy" you will probably be way over the load carrying capacity of that Expedition.








Check out the Ford Towing Guide for more info on your capacities
[/quote]

Ok Thank you. I checked the load carrying capacity of the expedition it says 9,200 lbs. The 28KRS says 6,095 lbs (Shipping Wt.) That leaves a supposed wieght aloowance of 3,105 lbs. How much wieght allowance should I leave myself to play with?The 28KRS also says it has a carrying capacity of 1,480 lbs. Input on this would be greatly appreciated, due to me being a first time trailer owner. Thanks in advance.






















[/quote]

The tongue weight of the 28krs will most likely put you at or over the GVW (gross vehicle weight) of the truck. The expy's gvw is 7400 (verify on driver's door) and the payload will most likely be around 1500-1700. Weighing your truck with your family and travel gear in it will give you the exact weight you are dealing with. Take that weight and subtract it from the 7400 and that's your available payload for trailer tongue weight. Based on my own experience once you add tongue weight your truck is going to be very close to it's max.

Another thing to consider is tow vehicle wheelbase, the shorter the wheelbase and the longer the trailer the harder it will be for the truck to maintain control of the trailer. Here's a link to more info on wheelbase wheelbase info A hitch like the hensley will help in the wheelbase department but not with the weight issues you will be up against. The best thing to do is to weigh your truck and find out exactly where your truck is at as far as how much available payload you have.

Mike


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## CCRLW (May 9, 2008)

You guys sre great! Thanks for all the valuable info.

Robert


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