# HDTV



## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Not sure if a lot of people are aware of this or not. Starting in 2006 (I assume Jan) the plug will be pulled on normal analog TV and all stations will be required to broadcast in digital (DTV). I have known about the law for about 6 years and it is the reason I have a cheapy Magnavox for the house. The transition has been going on for quite some time. http://www.hdtv.net/faq.htm

But what does this mean to us? It means that the television that came in your Outback (and the one in your house if not new) will no longer work without having a digital-to-analog converter. I asked one of the tv guys at the local wal-mart if they sold a digital-to-analog converter -- yeap, about $200. That's kind of pricey. He also said that even with the converter, I would lose about 30% of my current picture size due to the top and bottom masking. Most of us have already seen some of this on dvd movies. With HDTV the format for all images changes to the new ratio and everything on your current 4:3 tv will be banded/masked with the top and bottom black lines, therefore significantly reducing the viewing size.

Another question I have is "how does this new law effect free-air"? Will free-air become a thing of the past? Will the winguard antenna on our Outbacks even work?

I am a little fuzzy about all the ramafications of the new law and there hasn't been a lot of press about it, so maybe someone else can enlighten me further. Anyway, I have been shopping for a replacement for my Outback tv (something I wanted to do anyway) and I've been looking for an HDTV-ready LCD flat-panel. But, the waters are now muddied even further. Ever heard of EDTV or SDTV? Apparently, these are lesser quality DTV standards and I guess they will work with the HDTV signal, but don't know for sure. http://www.sampo.com.tw/english/Support/FAQ/display.asp

Anyway, something to think about if you are going to replace a tv. And, I'm anxious to hear what some of you know about it.


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Your Outback came with a Television?? Must be a 5'er option

Tim


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

Sounds like the retailers will be getting rich when everyone buys new Tv's! I smell a conspiracy!


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## j1mfrog (Jun 6, 2004)

What do you mean by free air? I believe the Chicago stations that have HDTV are broadcasting them over the air (meaning not just cable or satellite). I know you need a special receiver for them. I don't know if they require a special antenna, but I'm sure that they are broadcast over the airwaves.

Hey! Why am I getting dragged into this. No TV while camping !!!!


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

free-air means thru the air, free if you have an antenna. It makes sense that the digital could be sent the same as analog, but possibly you need a different antenna. Lot of things I don't know about it, but need to find out.

I'll watch tv while I'm camping







We intend to full-time in about 18 months.


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## dougdogs (Jul 31, 2004)

vdub said:


> I'll watch tv while I'm camping
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When you make the jump to full time, won't you want to add a dish anyway??

With a dish, your old set should be fine.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

I already have a dish, but that is one of the unanswered questions -- what will happen? Certainly the dtv pic ratio will be in play -- no?


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## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

I'm no expert but I think you can get HDTV broadcasts with rabbit ears. Because the signal is digital, you don't have to worry about multi-path (what causes ghosts) and so weaker reception isn't a really issue until it is so weak you can't get a picture at all.

Don't have a decoder yet on my home set so I'm only going by what I've read.

Brian


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

I bought a large screen HDTV COMPATIBLE TV a couple of years ago. Note the word compatible. You can get some TVs with a built in receiver or buy a separate receive. I purchased a DirectTV satellite HDTV receiver last year and can get a few stations in HDTV format from the satellite. The local stations except FOX broadcast some shows in HDTV format over the airways. All you need is a UHF antenna and of cource the HDTV receiver to pick up the signals. You can also purchase HDTV antennas, but I don't think they do anything more than the standard UHF ones, except cost a lot more.

My understanding is beginning in 2006 all stations must transmit an HDTV signal. I don't think this means they can't also broadcast an Analog signal as well. In 2009 analog signal broadcasts will end, so you'll have to switch TVs by then.

When I first bought my TV the HDTV receivers cost $600-$700 a pop. I got my DirectTV satellite receiver for $399 as part of a package from DirectTV. I expect towards Christmas this year and throughout next year, you'll see major marketing pushes on the HDTV TVs and receivers and the prices will drop significantly.

I'd hold off a while before replacing your TV, prices will drop and there will be more shows broadcast in HDTV format. Right now, except for watching DVDs, its not worth the extra cost (my opinion), you just don't get enough.

Regards, Glenn


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

I had not heard the 2009 "final switch" year until you just now mentioned it. That might explain why there hasn't been much press on the subject. Given that 3 year window, I think you are right about prices dropping after 2006. I was under the impression that the plug would be pulled totally in 2006. If that was the case then prices may likely have gone up due to lack of supply. It will be interesting to see what happens.


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## Ymryl (Mar 2, 2004)

Don't hold your breath on the 2009 figure, the way things are progressing (at a snails pace), it will be much longer before they terminate analog broadcasts.

One thing is for sure, once you start watching HDTV, it is really hard to go back to 4:3 analog or digital. Especially if you are watching a Patriots football game


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Well, that's good news! I'm looking for this reason (wife calls it an excuse, but I prefer reason), to get an lcd hdtv......


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

One clarification that might help on the HDTV issue:

Digital (broadcast) TV, and HDTV, are not the same thing.

The coming change in over the air bradcast is from the existing analog (NTSC) signal to a digital signal. In many cases, that signal will be HDTV, but more commonly it will be SDTV (Standard Definition T.V.).

SDTV is comparable to the resolution we see today with DVD's, and is significantly lower then that of HDTV (but far better than NTSC).

Also, SDTV broadcasts will not neccesarily be widesceen (16:9), so it is not a given that you will lose a third of your picture area, or that you will have to buy a wide-screen TV (No, you will do that just because they are sooooo darn sexy!).

As noted, digital broadcasting will require a converter box for all those millions of analog TV's out there.

Time to start buying stock!!! Only question is, will the public buy converters, or spring for new digital TV's when the time comes?

Happy Trails!
Doug


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

I was looking again the other day and happened to ask the guy what you needed to do for digital free air. He showed me the antenna. Looked different. Short directors -- only about 3 or 4 inches wide. Not sure what freq. it would be at for the digital signal. Total length of the antenna I saw was about 18 or 20 inches. Looked as if it might fit on my current winguard mount, but not sure.


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

Hi

I thought "free to air" or FTA was something completely different.







Just like some TV broadcasts are free with rabbit ears, FTA for sat systems are also avaliable.

Check out "Pansat 2500A" in google or ebay. I do not own one so I do not know if this to good to be true, but check it out.

Thor


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

That appears to be a tuner. My understanding is that many of the lcd dtv-ready tv's do not have tuners built in. Reason is due to space and the thought that most people will be on cable or satellite and will have their own tuner as a seperate box like they do now. The guy at Wal-Mart (20 year old kid, but probably knows more than me about this subject) told me that they were planning on selling a separate tuner for around $200.

However, while poking around for info on the PanSat, I ran across this:

"There is nothing special about HDTV or DTV antennas. There is no need to buy a special "HDTV" or "DTV" antenna. The signals are sent over the same frequencies as analog stations. Most "HDTV" antennas are simply marketing hype. Conventional or regular good antennas are best."

The quote came from here:
http://www.wjtc.com/hdtv/story.aspx?conten...8B-BF5B922E0265

I found that interesting. There seems to be a lot of conflicting info out there on this subject. It's hard to decipher fact from fiction. Maybe I'm a cynic, but sometimes I get the feeling that what the sales guy tells me depends almost totally on what he happens to be selling. Nah, tell me it ain't so...


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## Explorinator (Jul 6, 2004)

HDTV EXPLAINED









The lowest resolution Hi-Def signal is 720p. Most signals are broadcast in 1080i. 
"P" stands for Progressive and "i" stands for interlaced. DVD is played back in 480p. NTSC is broadcast in 240i. A video signal is comprised of a horizontal frame and a vertical frame. An interlaced signal sends a vertical frame immediately followed by a horizontal frame. For example: Film is shot in 24FPS or "frames per second. Progressive scan is both horizontal and vertical frames at the same time. If you double a 240i signal you will get 480p. hence a smoother image.

Now that you are confused, when you buy a tv, whatever the last number is for resolution, (852 x 480p for example) 480 being the last number, is the tv's "native" resolution. No matter what signal is put in to it, the tv will convert the signal to it's native resolution. This holds true for Plasma and LCD. A hi-def tv will usually be 1024 x 768p. And again the tv will convert any signal to it's native resolution. A tv that has a native resolution of 480p will display your DVD the best because DVD resolution is 480p. however, it will have to downconvert a hi-def signal. You will still get a superior signal but not a good as you would on a hi-def tv. (if you are more than eight feet away you may never notice)

Now about 2006. The tv manufacturers have to provide a atsc (hi-def) tuner inside all thier sets by 2006. If you notice there is already a major shift. Try to find a name brand tv larger than 27" that is not hi-def capable. Oh yeah, most have stopped making VCR's. TV is broadcast "over the air" via RF. (radio frequency) The bandwith for tv signals is limited to a certain range of frequencies. Those frequencies are all used up. So stations that broadcast in HD have to replace some of thier SD (standard def) broadcast frequencies with the HD signal. Most will complete a total change by 2010 if they want to compete. You can use any antenna for HD.

I hope this is helpful and not confusing.

I have a sharp Aquos 15" 852 x 480 and a audiovox DVD player. This is for the little one to mellow out with spongebob before bed. If I'm watching TV while camping, I didn't hike enough during the day to tire me out.
...................or the wife beat me at scrabble!


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## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

This from an associate who attended the Las Vegas Consumer Electronics Show:

"Every year I attend the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. This year was no exception and I thought I would share an observation that some of you may find of use.

"As most of you know, 2006 will mark the first year in which the FCC mandates that all TV broadcasting must be performed using the HDTV standard. This "standard" breaks down into two formats of widescreen broadcast: 720p and 1080i. Without going into detail, each format is nice to look at and has its proponents and detractors, including the major networks which seem to be evenly divided as to which format they choose to utilize. For A/V geeks such as myself, the controversy surrounding what constitutes HDTV and how manufacturers, retailers and broadcasters are complicating the issue, has been a source of irritation, to put it mildly. At CES, a fellow geek and I think we may have witnessed the unveiling of the holy grail when it comes to HDTV technology.

"Up until now, consumer digital TVs have been limited by their native resolution, rendering broadcast or recorded source video information of other resolutions into something often less palatable (Granted, it certainly is far better than television we have watched over the past few decades). Last year it seemed that many in the industry were settling upon the 720p standard and most true HDTV television sets you find in stores currently are engineered accordingly. This year, the big video news from the show is that technology has finally eliminated the need to compromise and, simultaneously, provides an even better video experience than the FCC standard. Texas Instruments has released a new Digital Light Processing (DLP) chip which, when incorporated in a good TV, produces a 1080p image from any input video data. Again, without going into detail, this gives you the advantages of the "p" (progressive, as opposed to interlaced) form of video display without giving up anything.

"Bottom line is that the picture is superb. I haven't witnessed 1080p images on anything other than a $25,000 Sony digital projection TV and CRT projectors costing upwards of $60,000. What I saw in Vegas was just as good and reportedly will retail at the end of this year for $5,000 for the initial, large sets, with prices and sizes dropping rapidly (no doubt) as most consumer electronics have over their technology life cycle. What I hope you take from all this is a warning not to be seduced by what I expect will be dazzlingly cheap prices for "High Definition" television sets this year as manufacturers and retailers attempt to clear their warehouses of old technology. "


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## kjdj (Sep 14, 2004)

Be careful. "HDTV Campatible" means it has the Y,Pb,Pr signal input. Not a HDTV tuner.

The 2006 timeline won't happen.

The FED set the timeline but the consumer will prevail as to when NTSC will be retired.

Kevin


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