# Hot Time In The Outback



## jgheesling (Sep 28, 2004)

The DW complained about the Microwave going on and off and if she â€œplayedâ€ with the plug it would work again for a few minutes. Well had to get up from view of the lake in my â€œeasyâ€ chair and just see what was going on. I checked the plug and all seemed well, tried bending the prongs tighter to see if that was the problem with no results. Well I pulled the receptacle out of the wall in the cabinet. This is a dedicated receptacle for the microwave. Upon inspection I found that the wires wedge in for connection to the receptacle and that they were not pressed in well at the factory so in turn they developed some heat and the wire oxidized and made the connection even more loose. I donâ€™t know if you have looked at the receptacles in the TT but they are one piece and donâ€™t have the tradition screws for wire connections. Well Gilligan cut the hole to big for the receptacle so they filled it with the foam, which could with enough heat from the wire been a big weenie roast. The other scary thing I discovered is that they put the Microwave on a 20 amp breaker but only used a 14/2 wg wire which is only good for 15 amps and used a 15 amp rated receptacle. In the real world you could not get away with that during an electrical inspection to get your service turned on in your home. The microwave pulls 12.5 amps and if you have any voltage drop that amperage will go up some very close to the limit of the wire and receptacle. So when you smell something cooking in the microwave make sure it not the â€œOutback Kabobâ€.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

jgheesling said:


> The DW complained about the Microwave going on and off and if she â€œplayedâ€ with the plug it would work again for a few minutes. Well had to get up from view of the lake in my â€œeasyâ€ chair and just see what was going on. I checked the plug and all seemed well, tried bending the prongs tighter to see if that was the problem with no results. Well I pulled the receptacle out of the wall in the cabinet. This is a dedicated receptacle for the microwave. Upon inspection I found that the wires wedge in for connection to the receptacle and that they were not pressed in well at the factory so in turn they developed some heat and the wire oxidized and made the connection even more loose. I donâ€™t know if you have looked at the receptacles in the TT but they are one piece and donâ€™t have the tradition screws for wire connections. Well Gilligan cut the hole to big for the receptacle so they filled it with the foam, which could with enough heat from the wire been a big weenie roast. The other scary thing I discovered is that they put the Microwave on a 20 amp breaker but only used a 14/2 wg wire which is only good for 15 amps and used a 15 amp rated receptacle. In the real world you could not get away with that during an electrical inspection to get your service turned on in your home. The microwave pulls 12.5 amps and if you have any voltage drop that amperage will go up some very close to the limit of the wire and receptacle. So when you smell something cooking in the microwave make sure it not the â€œOutback Kabobâ€.


Great heads up! Thanks (and glad everything is ok)


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## justinsnow0 (Feb 5, 2007)

I have to admit. This post has now made me nervous. I guess you kind of take for granted that they have real attention to detail on some things. i don't really mind plumbing stuff but when it could cause a fire and possibly kill you, well that makes me nervous.


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## jjmaurer (Feb 17, 2007)

Are these things made by Amish?


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

A good thing to check and possibly do a small upgrade.

It is concerning that a 20 amp circuit has 14 ga wire. Not surprised at the push-in type wiring device (receptacle).

It makes sense to replace the receptacle with a better wiring device that uses screw terminals -any good electrican will have many stories of wiring issues that are caused by push-in type wiring. The change out of the 14 ga to 12 ga is lot more work but can be done. Could also replace the breaker in the panel with a 15 Amp and test to see if it will run the M/W ok...... on the smaller breaker.

Keystone -this is not right and should be fixed!

Map guy


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## Lady Di (Oct 28, 2005)

Wow!

That seems like a safety issue for sure.

What does the common (not real knowledgeable) person do about it?


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

showdogs said:


> Are these things made by Amish?


Nope. Amish will do a better job.

They are the product of Indiana stumpjumpers.

Bill


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

cookie9933 said:


> Are these things made by Amish?


Nope. Amish will do a better job.

Bill
[/quote]

My thoughts, exactly, Bill. If the AMISH made the Outbacks, you would have a quality product that would probably last for GENERATIONS!!
Darlene


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## Crismon4 (Jan 25, 2005)

sgalady said:


> Are these things made by Amish?


Nope. Amish will do a better job.

Bill
[/quote]

My thoughts, exactly, Bill. If the AMISH made the Outbacks, you would have a quality product that would probably last for GENERATIONS!!
Darlene








[/quote]

X2


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## NobleEagle (Jul 8, 2006)

This IS a great find. And I agree it's a potential catastrophe waiting to happen. We dont use the micro too often and definately not for cooking a meal, usually just for warm ups or popcorn. But as I see it, theres 2 options here.

#1) Nothing is done and one day someone will get hurt nd this will come to light and the maker of the TT will be held liable.
















#2) Recall for the fix (with all of the great warranty affiliates out there)









I seem to think #1 is the way it will probably go, and if that happens we will all have trailers that wont be made anymore. That could break the Keystone Bank. It looks like this "mistake" wasn't done by Gilligan, but the Keystone Kops.


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

While I agree that this is not the way to do things, let us remember, our campers are not subject to the National Electrical Code, and what may be code for your home may not necessarily be code for your RV.

As we found out with an earlier thread, there is a standard published by the National Fire Protection Association that oversee's the construction of RV's, that may only specify the 14/2. I will stop by the Fire Marshals office at work today and look into this further and report back.

Tim


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

hatcityhosehauler said:


> While I agree that this is not the way to do things, let us remember, our campers are not subject to the National Electrical Code, and what may be code for your home may not necessarily be code for your RV.
> 
> As we found out with an earlier thread, there is a standard published by the National Fire Protection Association that oversee's the construction of RV's, that may only specify the 14/2. I will stop by the Fire Marshals office at work today and look into this further and report back.
> 
> Tim


120 volt electricity (ohms, volts, amps, etc) behaves the same way in a RV as it does in a home. When a breaker allows 20 amps to flow before tripping, and when potentially 20 amps is flowing through 14-2 NM wire into a receptacle rated at 15 amps, that's a recipe for trouble. All it would take to do it right is to use a 15 amp breaker, or else 12 guage wire and a higher-rated receptacle. Difference in cost would be pennies. No excuse for not doing it right.

I agree with Noble Eagle. A mishap could lead to a huge settlement against Keystone. Maybe an Indiana court wouldn't find for a plaintiff, but since Keystone distributes its products in other states, a jury in the selling state could do do.

Bill


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

> 120 volt electricity (ohms, volts, amps, etc) behaves the same way in a RV as it does in a home. When a breaker allows 20 amps to flow before tripping, and when potentially 20 amps is flowing through 14-2 NM wire into a receptacle rated at 15 amps, that's a recipe for trouble. All it would take to do it right is to use a 15 amp breaker, or else 12 guage wire and a higher-rated receptacle. Difference in cost would be pennies. No excuse for not doing it right.


I was never disputing the laws of physic's, and actually agreed that it should have been 12/2. My dispute was that if there is no code requiring it, the manufacturer, whether it is Keystone, or Fleetwood, or Winnebago, is going to chose the lowest cost method as possible.

Now, I stopped by the Fire Marshals office today, and looked up NFPA 1192, and now I can say with authority that electrical components in an RV *should* meet the standards as set forth in NFPA 70, also known as the National Electrical Code. I don't know if there is any statutory requirements, but the excepted standard is the NEC.

That being said, now NobleEagle, and everyone else here has some ammunition to take to Keystone.

Tim


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

Those in Wshington State and Oregon may have additional arm twisting power due to these states requiring seperate RV/Mobile Home/ Modular Home certification requirements if sold in state. Washington requires a Labor and Industries label that the unit meets L&I's standards -would assume electrical would have scrutinity because L&I adminsiters all Electrical Code Permiting - Only large jurisdication usually have in house electrical permiting functions overseen by L&I....

Map Guy


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## shaela21 (Aug 16, 2005)

Thanks for the information. I just went out and checked my microwave plug and breaker, and am pleased to see that the breaker is a 15 amp for the microwave. The wiring is in good condition and no problems to be found, in this area anyway. But if you do have a 20 amp breaker with 14 gauge wire, then something has to be done. Either change out the breaker or run 12 gauge wire. The 20 amp breaker will allow too much juice to flow through the wire and it is not meant for this much power, which of course generates extra heat and that is where the problem lies. I just had this problem in my house where I found a 20 amp breaker supplying 14 gauge wire. I was able to easily change out the breaker rather then re-wiring that circuit. But I hope that Keystone takes note of this problem and fixes it.


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## camping canuks (Jan 18, 2007)

sgalady said:


> Are these things made by Amish?


Nope. Amish will do a better job.

Bill
[/quote]

My thoughts, exactly, Bill. If the AMISH made the Outbacks, you would have a quality product that would probably last for GENERATIONS!!
Darlene








[/quote]

X3


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Well the only thing wrong here is the 20 amp circuit breaker, should be 15 amp. Actually the code under rates 14, 12 AND 10 GA wire, they do it for a bigger safety margin. 14 ga wire will handle 20 amps with no problem and still stay under the insulation heat rating especially with such short runs in a TT. I would replace that 20 amp CB with a 15 amp and replace the socket with a high quality socket.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

shaela21 said:


> Thanks for the information. I just went out and checked my microwave plug and breaker, and am pleased to see that the breaker is a 15 amp for the microwave. The wiring is in good condition and no problems to be found, in this area anyway. But if you do have a 20 amp breaker with 14 gauge wire, then something has to be done. Either change out the breaker or run 12 gauge wire. The 20 amp breaker will allow too much juice to flow through the wire and it is not meant for this much power, which of course generates extra heat and that is where the problem lies. I just had this problem in my house where I found a 20 amp breaker supplying 14 gauge wire. I was able to easily change out the breaker rather then re-wiring that circuit. But I hope that Keystone takes note of this problem and fixes it.


Same here....

Guess Gillian had the day off when when went down the line.


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