# New Trailer Leans



## HVNFUN (Jan 28, 2010)

We bought a Keystone Outback 210rs just under a month ago. When we got it home, we noticed that it appeared to lean to one side, even when the levels were even. It was also noticeable inside the trailer as the trim appeared to be crooked.

So, we took our trailer back to the dealer. They just called and said it is a manufacturer's defect, but is cosmetic, not structural-therefore, they are refusing to do anything for us.

We asked for something in writing to this effect and they are refusing. They say that because it is cosmetic, they have no obligation to replace the trailer, and they say there is no repair for this "cosmetic" defect.

Based on your knowledge, what do you advise? Should we contact the manufacturer or should we continue pressing the dealer? Would you ask for a new trailer?

We had hoped to start camping in a week or so, but do not want to be stuck with an expensive lemon because we were impatient.

I'm mad because I paid for a brand new trailer, not a factory defect. Also, cosmetic to me is something like a sticker that is upside down, not a trailer that noticeable leans and looks crooked. I'm thinking that this will cause problems for everything once we start bouncing down the road.


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## raynardo (Jun 8, 2007)

It might be time to get "legal" on the dealer, since I imagine you didn't want to pay for a defective trailer, since a definite lean is not cosmetic - it's structural. Trailers are meant to be level!


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Put it on level ground (unhitched) and measure to the bottom of the frame on each side. Is it even? If not, look for a suspension problem. If it is, measure to the edge of the roof and compare the difference.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Did they say it was the suspension, frame or trailer itself that is leaning?

Bent leaf springs is what I suspect and that should be a warranty repairable defect.


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## W5CI (Apr 21, 2009)

From your post i beleive your TT is new, most states now have a Lemon law, but call Keystone and if you dont get results have your attorney call the dealer. good luck


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## VacaRick (Jul 23, 2009)

"_We asked for something in writing to this effect and they are refusing. They say that because it is cosmetic, they have no obligation to replace the trailer, and they say there is no repair for this "cosmetic" defect.

Based on your knowledge, what do you advise? Should we contact the manufacturer or should we continue pressing the dealer? Would you ask for a new trailer?"_

1) Document the conversations that you had with the dealer's representatives - highlighting the refusal to respond to you in writing.
2) Contact Outback customer affairs and explain the situation, have pictures available. It may be necessary to ask them to suggest an independant third party to evaluate the trailer's fitness for service, that is, dimensional correctness, weight distribution and balance along with suspension geometry.
3) I would also check with the State of Utah concerning possible "Lemon Law" violations (http://dmv.utah.gov/buyinglemonlaw.html)by the manufacturer/dealer.

You paid for a new trailer - Not a "cosmetically" flawed one. I would be surprised if Outback isn't helpful.


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## HVNFUN (Jan 28, 2010)

They say it is only the back slide that has a problem and that it is not the "structure" of the trailer. Thank you for all of your suggestions. I think they hope we will just go away, but I know we only have the 90 days to make this right before they really start fighting us. Thanks again.


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## Juan (Mar 31, 2009)

Unless you paid with defective money, you shouldn't get a defective trailer. You spent way too much money not to get a perfect trailer. I wouldn't settle for a trailer that leans. Sorry to hear about such a hassle when you spend your hard earned money.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

DO NOT fool around with this dealer. Document every conversation you've had with them as best you can (dates, times, statements by both sides, etc.) Then go see an attorney. Have him convince them that if they don't make this right, that he will be seeing them in court - and then the WILL have to pay to make it right, plus court costs and attorney fees.

This is a brand new trailer and everything should be right. THAT is the dealer's job, to sell you a defect-free unit, even if it means that they have to correct flaws from the factory. My guess is that they've experienced the pain of getting underpaid by Keystone to make corrections and they are trying to stave you off until the 90 days expires. But that is one of the costs of doing business and the risk that they must take in order to be an authorized dealer.

Make them fix it or make them pay big-time! You've asked them nicely and they flatly refused. The ball is now in your court. (And who is the dealer? They might like to know that you've already spread the word via Outbackers.com and it will be up to them to clear their name, for future sales opportunities. I found and browsed this website for several months and inquired about our dealer's reputation before buying our Outback.)

And remember, if your check had been defective, you can bet that they would be coming after you!

Just my $.02.

Mike


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

You would think that a dealer would have noticed this defect. I wouldn't put it past them to have noticed it and been prepared with the non-structural defect claim before you brought it back for them to inspect. Is there another dealer in your area? Maybe they should have a look at it.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

HVNFUN said:


> They say it is only the back slide that has a problem and that it is not the "structure" of the trailer. Thank you for all of your suggestions. I think they hope we will just go away, but I know we only have the 90 days to make this right before they really start fighting us. Thanks again.


If it is just the back slide can you give us more details?


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## maddog (Dec 16, 2009)

I had the same problem with Keystone covering warranty items. Though the items were not a structural safety issue it was the fact that it was cosmetic and looked bad. My dealer (Holman Rv)did take care of me! Convinced Keystone to fix the issue on one and then paid for another for me. Ultimately it is the dealers reputation that is on the line. I didn't have to fight to get mine taken care of but I think if you put some pressure on the dealer you'll get it worked out. It is a shame that Keystone handles warranty claims this way especially when they only give you a 1 year warranty.


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## HVNFUN (Jan 28, 2010)

Here's better explanation. We got the trailer home, opened it, leveled it, and noticed that both inside and outside it looked crooked. Inside-when looking at the King bed, you can actually see the trim is tilted as is the bed. When you look at it from outside, it also leans.

I terrorized my husband to level the trailer-to no avail. We took it back (also, the speakers were faulty).

They called and said they welded, banged, and pushed the rails to try to straighten out the trailer, to no avail. Thus, their answer that it didn't really matter-just cosmetic. I don't think it is just the rails, as the trim around the bed also looks crooked.

I'm as freaked out by their attempts to fix it as their statement that they aren't willing to put it in writing that they fixed this "cosmetic" only issue.

I think that what several of you stated is true-I paid big money for a new trailer, not a trailer with a factory defect.

Have any of you had to insist on a new trailer? We are just over 30 days and have never even slept in the thing. I hate having conflict, but I don't want to be straddled with a lemon.

All of your help and advise is appreciated.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Pics?


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## HVNFUN (Jan 28, 2010)

No pictures-they've had our trailer for a week.


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

Here's some free marginal legal advice... (The longer they keep it, the better it is for you in court (Lemon Law)- don't rush them)

Do a search of Lemon Law on this site -- a couple of years ago we had a whole discussion about it and how it relates to Trailers and its worth re-reading)

1. The dealer needs to be completely removed from the equation. This is a settlement between Keystone and you. The dealer has no authority to do anything but repair. He will state that he has done everything he can and that the trailer is within acceptable ranges.

2. You need to contact Keystone directly and begin a claim with them, or if the trailer is still at the dealer, get Keystone involved while the trailer is still there.

3. Keystone will probably have "someone" diffferent go and see the trailer at the delaers location. If that second "someone" also says that there is nothing wrong then you are pretty much done for.

4. You will need to prove to Keystone and the evalauting dealer that the trailer is structually not sound and thus unsafe.

5. The Lemon Law is pretty straight-forward (but difficult to win) when it comes to trailers. It strongly favors the manufacturers. However 99% of the time if you get yourself a good "Lemon Law" attorney you will win. If Keystone is unwilling to help you , under the lemon Law you are going to have to prove that the trailer is unsafe, dangerous, or un-liveable due to its situation and that the situation was caused by the manufacturer.

6. Hopefully its an easy fix. Otherwise you may be looking at having to sue them in court for Fraud. (Selling a defective trailer as new). Due to the cost of the trailer you will rule out Small Claims court. Keystone is NOT going to simply swap out your trailer for another. I have NEVER heard of that happening. They will attempt to remedy the situation the best that they can and then hope you just go away. Keystone is not going to go easily into this correction - this is going to cost them allot of time and labor dollars to fix. So mentally i would be prepared for a fight. But who knows - Keystone may actually be able to fix what is wrong.

I know thats not the answer you want -- but I sure wish you guys had caught this during the PDI. Of course that will also be one of the arguments that Keystone uses - that if the leaning was this bad, you would have noticed it during the PDI.

Finally - don't get emotional with Keystone. To them its just a piece of equipment. Don't make it personal, don't threaten them, don't cry or raise your voice. And for Godsake don't say your going to get a lawyer and sue (the moment you say that they have certain protocols which they put into action -- like hang up and wait for your $250 an hr attorney to call them!!). Just let them know that the trailer is leaning/twisting and that you need to have them fix it.

Keep us posted if you don't mind...


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## swanny (Oct 31, 2007)

I get the Highways magazine (Goodsam club). There is a section in the magazine called "Actionline" that contacts the people that need to know what's going on, on your behalf. Just a thought.

good luck, kevin


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## mmblantz (Jul 1, 2007)

X2 on what swanny says. Trailer Life magazine has a similar advocate feature and they both help people resolve issues with the folks we have to deal with all the time. I would contact them both immediately on something this big if they don't take care of it to your satisfaction. ---Mike


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

please post pics from the inside and out, it will help the rest of us to "see" what you mean


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## TexanThompsons (Apr 21, 2009)

I'm curious if this has gotten resolved. Another thought (used this before) is involve your insurance company. I have had my insurance company fight on my behalf and they were able to get things done I wasn't. I know, alot of suggestions.

At the end of the day it just stinks to have problems like this. Has there been any new developments?


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

Any luck getting picutres?


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## HVNFUN (Jan 28, 2010)

Thank you, everyone. They called yesterday and said they had fixed the problem and that they had something in writing for us. We will drive down in a day or two and then I'll post-pictures and an update to let you know if things are "fixed."


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

HVNFUN said:


> Thank you, everyone. They called yesterday and said they had fixed the problem and that they had something in writing for us. We will drive down in a day or two and then I'll post-pictures and an update to let you know if things are "fixed."


Keeping my fingers crossed for you...


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Yeah, I sure hope it works out. But I'd want some good documentation of what they did.

The fact that they originally said they "welded, pushed and banged" on it but couldn't fix it, then said it was just cosmetic doesn't sit too well with me.


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## HVNFUN (Jan 28, 2010)

Hi Everyone:
Thank you for your advice and encouragement. We got our trailer back, and took it on our first trip last weekend. The dealership worked on straightening things out, and provided a written summary addressing our concerns. So, for now, we're just hopeful that it will all work out.

Thanks.


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## Scottps (Jan 21, 2010)

HVNFUN said:


> Hi Everyone:
> Thank you for your advice and encouragement. We got our trailer back, and took it on our first trip last weekend. The dealership worked on straightening things out, and provided a written summary addressing our concerns. So, for now, we're just hopeful that it will all work out.
> 
> Thanks.


What did they end up doing? Did they fix it?


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Once you pay off your loan the bank will remove that lean









OK sorry I just could not help it


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