# Diesel Owners



## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

Ok, we are the newbies in diesel land, essentially, tomorrow we will be diesel virgins no more!








So would appreciate advice and info on being diesel owners. 5.9 cummins is what the truck has. One question is what is considered COLD weather and what is it we will need to do? I hear about plugging it in but what the heck do people do if they are where they can't plug it in?







what if you go to work and can't plug it in? lots to learn.


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## battalionchief3 (Jun 27, 2006)

where do you live? I worked on the cummins in the past and what an amazing motor. the main thing is when it gets below freezing at night is to plug it in. The sun does a good job during the day. If it stays below freezing for a long time then its recommened to put in a no-gel additive in the fuel. Diesel fuel gells up below freezing. Keep the tank filled up too. A lot depends on where you live. different climates need different care.


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Read the owners manual. It will have all the info you need. My Ford PSD manual says it will start with being plugged in down to 0, but I do plug it in if it's colder then 30, when I can.

As far as fuel, if you are in an area that regularly gets cold in the winter, most if not all of the stations will have winter blend.

Check for the recommedations on fuel additives like Stanadyne in the manual too. Again, Ford does not recommend the use of said additives, but GM does. I don't know about Dodge.

As far as anything else, I'm sure some Dodge owners will chime in, and congratulations on the new wheels.

Tim


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

battalionchief3 said:


> where do you live? I worked on the cummins in the past and what an amazing motor. the main thing is when it gets below freezing at night is to plug it in. The sun does a good job during the day. If it stays below freezing for a long time then its recommened to put in a no-gel additive in the fuel. Diesel fuel gells up below freezing. Keep the tank filled up too. A lot depends on where you live. different climates need different care.


Kennewick, Wa. We get freezing and below in the winter and as well as teens at times and have hit the 1 digit numbers. You just never know around here. Summers are too dang hot 90's in normal and 100's pure hedoubleupsidedownhockeysticks for this heat hater! 
I am really puzzling over the whole diesel and winter thing and what if you can't plug in? what if you are traveling and can't plug in at motel?? hmmm...I just don't get it.


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## snipperkyle (Apr 9, 2007)

You need to check also to see if it must use the new ulta low sulfer diesle if so need to be real careful where you get your fuel!


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## mik0445 (Jun 5, 2006)

Diesels are easy as long as you prep right. Ditto from what battalionchief says. If you're in a place where it drops below freezing for more than a day or two at a time, plug it in, especially as the motor gets older. If you aren't close to a plug when you park, don't sweat it. My truck doesn't even act like its not a normal start unless it has been sitting in below 0 temps for at least 24 hours or more. Most definitely use a fuel additive if you are in a cold climate, but I would add stabilizer if its going to be consistently below 40 for more than just a few days. ALWAYS make sure that you let your glow plug/heat grid light turn off before you start, that's the easiest way to make sure she'll start for you. I've also found that my truck runs better, even in the warmer temps by adding additives to your fuel all the time. I personally like the power service (?) in the gray bottle for summer and the white bottle for the winter...she gets better mpg with it as well.


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

If your 5.9 is a 2006 or earlier model year, you need not worry about what diesel fuel you're getting. If it's at the station, it's good. Oh, with the caveat - don't get the red fuel. That's off-road/farm use, and a stiff fine if you get caught using it in a road-going vehicle.

"Again, Ford does not recommend the use of said additives, but GM does." Not in my manual. It says "No additives".

Sluggo


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

I only would have plugged mine in in December and January, mostly I was able to keep it in the garage though. Best price on diesel here was the Fred Meyers store in Richland.

Congrats.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

OK did I miss something here? last I know you were buying a lighter trailer because your truck was a little under powered for your Outback and you could not afford a new TV but now you have a Diesel







So does this mean you will keep the Outback...I hope, I hope









Wow a Cummins, way to go, sure wish I had a Cummins







Congratulations


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

N7OQ said:


> I only would have plugged mine in in December and January, mostly I was able to keep it in the garage though. Best price on diesel here was the Fred Meyers store in Richland.
> 
> Congrats.


I'll have to keep eye on that, thanks Y GUY! ya know, we really should meet you sometime! You'll be meeting the other Kennewick people "Dawgs" next weekend....







I feel so left out


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Doxie-Doglover-Too said:


> I only would have plugged mine in in December and January, mostly I was able to keep it in the garage though. Best price on diesel here was the Fred Meyers store in Richland.
> 
> Congrats.


I'll have to keep eye on that, thanks Y GUY! ya know, we really should meet you sometime! You'll be meeting the other Kennewick people "Dawgs" next weekend....







I feel so left out








[/quote]

Tawnya, you and Rick deserve it and I'm so happy for you.







Now you won't have a TV worry and pulling a grade will a piece of cake.







When I up your way and a Dodge pulling a Outback flys by be up a hill I will know it is you.







Congratulations


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## BlueWedge (Sep 11, 2005)

New TV's for all !!!
















Congrats on the TV you guys. It can see your smiles all the way over the cascades.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

You will not need to plug it in in Tri-Cities. Very Very few people plug them in around Coeur d'Alene and you are on average 20 degrees warmer then us.

Where did you get it and what did you get??



snipperkyle said:


> You need to check also to see if it must use the new ulta low sulfer diesle if so need to be real careful where you get your fuel!


100% of all stations MUST now have the ULSD so it should not matter where you get your road permited fuel it should be ULSD.


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Congrats on the new Cummins TV, but to best answer your question we need more info on at least year. If it's a 2nd gen 98.5-02 or 3rd gen 03-now, not sure if there calling the 6.7L a 4th gen yet but alas. I live in Colorado and have never plugged in my truck. I take that back I plugged it in once over this last Christmas while visiting my folks (got to use there juice to keep it warm







) and it started the same as it always has, but it did get warmer ALOT faster, I've never had a hard start in 0*. One thing I learned is when it's really cold run the grid heaters 2 or 3 times before trying to start. So turn the key on, look at the wait to start light, when it shuts off. Turn off the key, turn it on again, wait for the wait to start light to go off and then turn the key to start. But this is only when it's at least 20* or colder.

If you have a 2nd gen you have a VP$$ >$1100 oops I mean VP44 injection pump and it needs a constant supply of fuel to lubricate and cool so if your lift pump ~$150 goes bad you won't know it, the truck will run fine but will kill the VP and leave you stranded so you NEED a fuel pressure gauge to know when you need a new fuel filter and or lift pump. Never let your pressure get below 6psi and that's on the low side, normal idle pressure is ~12-16psi. I don't like seeing mine get below 8psi WOT (wide open throttle) If you have a 3rd gen you have an in tank pump and will only see about 8psi at idle and maybe 1 psi WOT but they (Dodge) says that isn't an issue, it's volume not pressure on the 3rd gens, pressure gauge recommended but not necessary.

Either way you are going to love the way the Cummins will pull your TT.


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Sorry Tawnya, no diesel advice here, but I did want to say 








on your new truck!!


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Sluggo54 said:


> "Again, Ford does not recommend the use of said additives, but GM does." Not in my manual. It says "No additives".
> 
> Sluggo


I stand corrected. Several GM owners here have stated that GM recommends the Stanadyne, so I just thought it was in the manual. I apologize for any confusion.

Tim


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

N7OQ said:


> You need to check also to see if it must use the new ulta low sulfer diesle if so need to be real careful where you get your fuel!


100% of all stations MUST now have the ULSD so it should not matter where you get your road permited fuel it should be ULSD.
[/quote]
Hi Andy and thanks for your input. Gotta love this forum! We bought from Dishman Dodge in Spokane, we have bought twice from them. I had to stand my ground but love that I am older and wiser and can play the "game" He got a Dodge Ram 2500, 5.9 Cummins (automatic tranny) Quad Cab, 4x4 ,shortbed. I drooled over the mega cab but had to pull my tongue back in and be realistic. The 4 legged kids would have benefited from all that room, but then again, they ARE just 12 and 16 lbs and Cricket wants to be on my lap anyway.


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

hatcityhosehauler said:


> "Again, Ford does not recommend the use of said additives, but GM does." Not in my manual. It says "No additives".
> 
> Sluggo


I stand corrected. Several GM owners here have stated that GM recommends the Stanadyne, so I just thought it was in the manual. I apologize for any confusion.

Tim
[/quote]

First - Congrats to Doxie and DH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!









Stanadyne Perfornace Formula is the only after market fuel additive approved by GM. The link will go to a PDF from Stanadyne providing a list of OEM approvals. Cummins is not on this list. 
Stanadyne

As Andy stated you should not need to plug in your diesel except during extended cold snaps below ~30 degrees. Your manual should give you guidance on temp range to use the plug -in heater.

Most of Washington State has ULSD at the pump -some stations have not changed their pump labeling yet though for liability reasons -until they have had several complete tank inventory turnovers from LSD to ULSD. Is your motor a 5.9 or 6.7?

The key to long life is clean fuel, regular oil changes, regular fuel filter changes, and keep the exhaust gas temps in the proper range during towing.

I suggest that the DH get familar with how to change the fuel filter right away. Carry an extra Fuel Filter in the truck all the time just incase you get a bad batch of fuel.

Map Guy


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## summergames84 (Mar 6, 2004)

Doxie, 
It is nice to hear that you opted for the new TV, and are getting one that can handle what the PNW roads throw at you. And, of course, we are all so pleased that you are staying an official Outbacker. Congrats and happy towing!


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Congrats, Doxie on your new wheels!









Now,



> Congrats on the new Cummins TV, but to best answer your question we need more info on at least year. If it's a 2nd gen 98.5-02 or 3rd gen 03-now, not sure if there calling the 6.7L a 4th gen yet but alas. I live in Colorado and have never plugged in my truck. I take that back I plugged it in once over this last Christmas while visiting my folks (got to use there juice to keep it warm ) and it started the same as it always has, but it did get warmer ALOT faster, I've never had a hard start in 0*. One thing I learned is when it's really cold run the grid heaters 2 or 3 times before trying to start. So turn the key on, look at the wait to start light, when it shuts off. Turn off the key, turn it on again, wait for the wait to start light to go off and then turn the key to start. But this is only when it's at least 20* or colder.
> 
> If you have a 2nd gen you have a VP$$ >$1100 oops I mean VP44 injection pump and it needs a constant supply of fuel to lubricate and cool so if your lift pump ~$150 goes bad you won't know it, the truck will run fine but will kill the VP and leave you stranded so you NEED a fuel pressure gauge to know when you need a new fuel filter and or lift pump. Never let your pressure get below 6psi and that's on the low side, normal idle pressure is ~12-16psi. I don't like seeing mine get below 8psi WOT (wide open throttle) If you have a 3rd gen you have an in tank pump and will only see about 8psi at idle and maybe 1 psi WOT but they (Dodge) says that isn't an issue, it's volume not pressure on the 3rd gens, pressure gauge recommended but not necessary.
> 
> Either way you are going to love the way the Cummins will pull your TT.


You mean you pay all those hard-earned dollars for a new truck, diesel, and you just can't turn the DANG thing on and go?









Just how much maintenance is involved in these things? I'm considering one myself.

Mark


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## snipperkyle (Apr 9, 2007)

BlueWedge said:


> New TV's for all !!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't let them fool ya thats what do so I can go camping is haul gas and alot of truck stops and most all the stations still sell the lsd instead of ulsd just becouse of the supply around here anyway


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

mswalt said:


> You mean you pay all those hard-earned dollars for a new truck, diesel, and you just can't turn the DANG thing on and go?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, you can, especially is warmer climates.

Diesel will gel when cold. Also, diesel engines do not use spark plugs.

Cummins uses a heater grid to warm things up, Chevy and Ford uses glow plugs.

I would rather take the extra minute and a half to let the heater grids do their jobs.

During the summer you can turn the key and pretty much go like any other vehicle.

Steve


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

I have only one thing to add....when you pull into a parking lot, after running down the highway, let the engine idle for a few minutes before you shut it down. The turbo is turning at a REALLY high RPM and it will cook the oil around the bearing if you pull in and shut it down. I let mine run just about all the time when towing. When I stop for fuel or "pit stops" I will let it idle as long as I am nearby.

I can tell you from experence that the first mountain that you climb....you will smile from ear to ear!!!!

Good luck and remember....REAL TRUCKS DON'T HAVE SPARK PLUGS!!!









Gary


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## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

mswalt said:


> You mean you pay all those hard-earned dollars for a new truck, diesel, and you just can't turn the DANG thing on and go?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I live in n Fla. I think I have used the heater grid one time.(just to make me fell better) The truck starts right up and runs great. As far as the fuel. Most additives have the anti gel stuff in it, although i dont know if it is even a problem this far south.


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## Crismon4 (Jan 25, 2005)

Doxie-Doglover-Too said:


> So long story short, we gave it some thought and decided that since we like rving so much and that is what Rick and Tawnya do, we don' t have money spending hobbies we would just have to do the whole bigger truck thing. Going to 2500 gas from a 1500 gas would help but we felt just not signicantly.To have the power to pull the tt on the PNW without worrying about the passes or any hills was the reason for going diesel. I can't say I like the payment but heck, I CAN SAY I LIKE OUTBACKING! and further more,Rick never asks for anything and after 32 years of law enforcement and putting his life on the line everyday, well, it was easier for my to just do the payment and cut something out somewhere else. He deserves it.


'nuff said







!

Congrats.....did I ask for pix already









We're so happy for you all.....though we were secretly hoping you'd be S.O.B.'s like us


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

"it was easier for my to just do the payment and cut something out somewhere else. He deserves it."

Tawnya - you do WOMAN! What a great attitude; I hope it is catching...

Congratulations, girl. You are gonna love it.

http://www.stanadyne.com/new/ppt/showfile.asp?id=717

The newest date in this document is 2000. I'm not convinced.
Also, don't believe you'll find any glowplugs in my Duramax.

Sluggo


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## countrygirl (Apr 9, 2006)

Congrats Tawnya!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now you need a personal license plate like mine:

"HER TRK"

Nuff said!


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Sluggo54 said:


> Also, don't believe you'll find any glowplugs in my Duramax.
> 
> Sluggo


You sure about that? I know the Duramax now has a preheater, grid heater setup like the Cummins, but it also still has glow plugs, maybe a better system








but what I've read the glow plugs are still used mainly to help with really cold starts.


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## Chad Haugen (Mar 29, 2007)

Congrats! I gelled up this winter and used Power Service to break down the gel. Have some handy for colder temps and you can use it all the time for fuel pump, injector and top end lubrication. They also have a product called diesel 9-11 for when you are gelled up and lost all power. I don't think you will have to worry about gelling unless it's below 0. When I gelled up we had a cold streak of 20 and 30 below so i think "down thar" you won't have any problems... but better safe than sorry. By the way Power Service is what the truckers use.


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

Sluggo54 said:


> "it was easier for my to just do the payment and cut something out somewhere else. He deserves it."
> 
> Tawnya - you do WOMAN! What a great attitude; I hope it is catching...
> 
> ...


Sluggo
I stand corrected here - Stanadyne and Racor have the only third party diesel fuel additives approved by GM during the warranty period. 
This Stanadyne link refrences the GM Bulletin issued in 2003. 
Stanadyne Link
I have not been able to find a copy of the bulletin to post yet ... Stanadyne like just about every diesel fuel additive maker has repackaged and reformulated to meet ULSD standards for January 1, 2007.

IMHO whether you are convinced or not about the use of an additive is irrelevant. The real issue here is that for any diesel to live a long time the fuel must be clean. By clean I mean no water particles can pass thru the pump/injectors and any particulate matter larger than about 6 microns must be captured by the filtration system. On our 2006 duramax's the factory fuel system is pretty good about trapping water but is marginal in my opinion about capturing the particulate matter. Check for your self the rating of the factory filter ~2 micron at about 70%. This is the "updated" OEM specified filter! The Bosch based injection system is susceptible to damage from water droplets and any particulate matter 7 micron or larger. You will have to search hard to verify this info.....

Personally, I have added additional fuel filtration to my duramax located pre OEM filter/pump to avoid warranty hassles during dealer visits. My additional filtration is 2 micron rated at 99% efficiency. This additional filtration is based on a Caterpillar spec filter and is mounted in the area of the left hand under bed area by the fuel tank filler. And yes I carry a spare filter for each and the special wrench to remove the water sensor from the OEM filter assembly.....

Also, someones comment about Stanadyne making the water separator for GM is bogus.

Map Guy


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

hatcityhosehauler said:


> "Again, Ford does not recommend the use of said additives, but GM does." Not in my manual. It says "No additives".
> 
> Sluggo


I stand corrected. Several GM owners here have stated that GM recommends the Stanadyne, so I just thought it was in the manual. I apologize for any confusion.

Tim
[/quote]

Tim
Never said GM recommended an additive, they don't except their own, just that it is approved for use under terms of the warranty.

For those of you that want to read the bulletin content - see post#1 at this link..... Your local GM dealer can print out a copy if you request ...
DieselPlace link
Text of Bulletin
Below are statements from GM's diesel engine supplement as well as GM Bulletin #03-06-04-017B stating General Motors position on this subject.
___________________________

From the Duramax Diesel Engine Supplement (Page 5-2)

Diesel Engine Fuel
Notice: Diesel fuel or fuel additives not recommended in this manual could damage your fuel system, fuel-operated heater (FOH) (Van models only) and engine. Your warranty would not cover this damage. And:
Diesel fuel that has been mixed with engine oil or automatic transmission fluid could damage your engine and emission controls.
Aftermarket diesel fuel additives are not tested by General Motors. Some additives, particularly those which contain alcohol or water emulsifiers, may damage your fuel system. If you believe that unique circumstances call for a fuel additive to be used, consult your dealer for advice.
If you ever run out of diesel fuel, it can be difficult to restart your engine. To avoid all this, never let your tank get empty.
If gasoline is ever accidentally added to the fuel tank, to avoid severe engine damage, do not run the engine until the fuel tank can be drained.

___________________________

General Motors Corporation

Bulletin No.: 03-06-04-017B

Date: September 07, 2005

INFORMATION

Subject:
Information on Diesel Fuel Additives

Models:
Â·2006 and Prior Light duty and Medium duty Trucks
Â·2006 and Prior Isuzu Commercial Medium Duty Models
Â·2006 and Prior HUMMER H2

with 6.5L, 6.6L DuramaxÂ®, 7.2L or 7.8L Diesel Engine (VINs D, F, P, S, Y, 1, 2, 3 â€" RPOs L65, L49, L56, L57, LB7, LLY, LBZ, LC8, LG4)

Supersede:
This bulletin is being revised to add model years, enhance the content and add GM diesel fuel conditioner. â€" Please, discard Corporate Bulletin Number 03-06-04-017A (Section 06 â€" Engine/Propulsion System).

Important:
The use of diesel fuel additives is not required or recommended for the 6.5L or the 6.6L DuramaxÂ® Diesel engine under normal conditions. The filtering system is designed to block water and contaminants without the use of additives. However, some customers may desire to use fuel additives to improve the characteristics of available diesel fuels.

Water Emulsifiers and Demulsifiers
If the customer desires to use a fuel additive, care must be taken in its selection. There are two common methods that fuel additives use to cope with water in the fuel. One method is through demulsification of water in the fuel. This method causes water particles to combine together to form larger particles, which drop out of suspension. This allows the fuel-filter/water-separator to separate the water from the fuel as it is designed to. The other method of coping with water in the fuel is through emulsification . This method, often using alcohol as the emulsifier, keeps water particles suspended in the fuel. Emulsification of water in the fuel can allow water to get past the fuel-filter/water-separator, in most cases causing damage to the fuel system. Only alcohol free water demulsifiers should be used in General Motors diesel engines. GM Diesel Fuel ConditionerÂ®, P/N 88861009 (in Canada 88861038) or both *Racor Power ShotÂ® and *StanadyneÂ® diesel fuel additives are alcohol free and utilize water demulsifiers to cope with water in the fuel. Other brands may be available in different areas; be sure that they clearly state that they are alcohol free demulsifiers before use.

* We believe these sources and their products to be reliable. General Motors does not endorse, indicate any preference for or assume any responsibility for the products from these firms or for any such items which may be available from other sources.

Common Diesel Fuel Concerns

Fuel Waxing/Icing
Fuel distributors blend #1 and #2 diesel fuels for seasonal requirements in a particular region. No other blending of fuels is recommended. However, a customer may desire to use a winter fuel additive to prevent fuel waxing or icing during extreme cold snaps. If a winter fuel additive is to be used, it should not contain alcohol or other water emulsifiers that may compromise the water removal effectiveness of the fuel filtering system.

Bacteria and Fungi Growth
Bacteria and fungi growth can occur in diesel fuel when there is water present, especially during warmer weather. The best prevention against bacteria and fungi growth is to use clean fuel that is free of water. There are diesel fuel biocides available that are designed to kill bacterial growth in the fuel system. However, the dead bacteria can still cause blockages throughout the fuel system. If bacterial growth is found in the fuel system, the proper method of removal is to flush the fuel system using the service Manual procedures, replace the fuel filter element and refill the tank with clean diesel fuel. If a customer desires to use a biocide after flushing the fuel system, it should not contain alcohol or other water emulsifiers.

Low Cetane Number
The cetane number is one indicator of a diesel fuel's ability to ignite. There are may indicators of overall fuel quality such as cleanliness, specific gravity, volatility, viscosity, detergency, corrosion inhibiting abilities, and lubricity. Increasing the cetane number alone is not a fix for poor quality fuel. Additionally, increasing the cetane number beyond the engine's requirements will not increase performance. However, the cetane number of diesel fuel is not always consistent and some customers may desire to use a cetane improver to ensure full performance of their engine. If such an additive is to be used, it must not contain alcohol or other water emulsifiers.

Poor Lubricity
The 6.5L diesel and the 6.6L DuramaxÂ® Diesel engines are designed to operate on today's low sulfur fuel without the use of additives. A fuel additive designed to increase lubricity is not a fix for poor quality or contaminated fuel, but some customers may desire to use a lubricity additive to aid in the longevity of their fuel system components. If such an additive is to be used, it must not contain alcohol or other water emulsifiers.

Fuel Source Issue
If a vehicle is properly maintained but has fuel contamination issues, consider obtaining fuel from a different source. Purchasing fuel from a high volume fuel retailer increases the chance that the fuel is fresh and of good quality.

GM Diesel Fuel ConditionerÂ®
Part Number___________________Description______________________
88861009(in Canada 88861038)_ Conditioner, Diesel Fuel (11 oz)_

___________________________

Map Guy


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