# Fleetwood Tosses In The Towel



## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

RV News reporting that Fleetwood is exiting the Trailer market effective immediately. No surprised, shocked or saddened to see them go, except competition is always a good thing. But I really never saw Fleetwood being competitive or building anything all that unique, just rehashed the old stuff over and over IMHO.


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## LarryTheOutback (Jun 15, 2005)

Y-Guy said:


> But I really never saw Fleetwood being competitive or building anything all that unique, just rehashed the old stuff over and over IMHO.


On the other hand it was hard to beat the Coleman tent trailers, manufactured by Fleetwood.

Ed


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

LarryTheOutback said:


> On the other hand it was hard to beat the Coleman tent trailers, manufactured by Fleetwood.


I guess I would disagree sort of, we had one, very heavy trailer and when they had the sagging roof problem Fleetwoods answer was to shaft the customer. You could get a replacement roof, but you had to pay to ship it. I recall the shipping was like $1200! I would agree that that division was more creative and seen as a leader.

I'll be curious to see if the Folding Trailer division gets bought up by another company though. The dealer we bought our Niagara from only sold Coleman Popups. I'd hate to see him go under.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

LarryTheOutback said:


> But I really never saw Fleetwood being competitive or building anything all that unique, just rehashed the old stuff over and over IMHO.


On the other hand it was hard to beat the Coleman tent trailers, manufactured by Fleetwood.

Ed
[/quote]

X2, Ed. We had two Coleman pop-ups. The first was a 1997 10' basic model, because we had been life-long tent campers and that pop-up was a HUGE step up! A couple years later we traded for a new 2000 Bayside, with side slide and everything but a toitty and shower. We had that one for seven seasons and traveled from Maine to Idaho to New Mexico and most states in between! We made some wonderful family memories in the 30,000+ miles we pulled that great camper. We only got rid of it to move into our Outback, a couple years ago.

The Fleetwood (Coleman) pop-ups were the Cadillacs of their breed. Sturdy and well designed! We had very few problems, and there are times when I wish we still had it. We could certainly pull it a lot further in a day than our Outback. But then, the Outback is more comfortable and we no longer fear rain come setup or fold-down times.









(And hey, Y-Guy. Fleetwood didn't shaft you - your dealer did. We had our roof replaced at the dealership that sold us the camper (over the winter). And the shipping was included. Didn't cost me a penny - the roofs were guaranteed for life, to the original owner.)

Sad to see the passing of an American icon.







There's a lot of that going around these days.

Mike


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Scoutr2 said:


> (And hey, Y-Guy. Fleetwood didn't shaft you - your dealer did. We had our roof replaced at the dealership that sold us the camper (over the winter). And the shipping was included. Didn't cost me a penny - the roofs were guaranteed for life, to the original owner.)


I'm glad they took care of you, perhaps it was a change of policy. Ours was a 2001 and just started showing roof sag like so many others had. Dealer went to bat for us, the letter from Fleetwood was pretty clear. They would send a roof to our dealer, but dealer or I would have to foot the bill. I wasn't the only one in that position at the time either. I got rid of the Niagara rather the fight it, perhaps they changed the policy in later 2002/03.

I'm still amazed Fleetwood closed their trailer division vs. the motorhome division. Though reading some of f the dealer comments I guess I can see why.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

I think the fleetwood (Coleman) pop ups were the best.









Many of fleetwood's roof innovations (or can we call them shots in the dark) weren't the best, but ours held up great and I really liked that trailer.

No offense to either brand, but I do admit that Fleetwood's definition of a Coleman pop up as being light weight was really no difference than Keystone's claim that the OB is a lightweight TT.








Both are far from light, but it's because they are built well....


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

We had the Bayside too, those beds were huge! there was something to be said when camping in the woods, laying inside on one of those beds and having all the zippers open.

Then there were the things Rick said that LAST time we broke down the trailer in the pouring Montana rain







.

We had zip, zero problems with that pop up. Sure glad I have a indoor potty and shower now though!


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## jnk36jnk (Mar 9, 2004)

We loved our two Coleman pop ups. The first was not much more than a tent on wheels and the second was a HUGE step up with the side pop out. Both of our Coleman's were actually made by Coleman so I can't speak to the issues that might have arisen when Fleetwood took them over. I just know we thoroughly enjoyed our little tent trailers. j


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Last week Monaco terminated its work force of over 2000.. They had been laid off since November.. Monaco says if they dont find money soon, there done. So along with this news goes Monaco, Safari, R-Vision and Holiday Rambler..

R-Vision was out of Warsaw, In. They laid off over 350 there..

None of the companies are profitable right now.. The one with the deepest pockets will still be there.. They all say they are good financially. but those words are just not true right now..

Carey


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> None of the companies are profitable right now.. The one with the deepest pockets will still be there.. They all say they are good financially. but those words are just not true right now..


I could very easily see it coming down to Thor & Forest River in the trailer market along with some smaller companies in the specialized niche market. You've got to think the guys over at Keystone were thrilled to hear Fleetwood leaving the market.

As for the old Coleman/Fleetwood trailers, that portion of the company was already sold off - Folding Trailer Company Acquisition Inc., (FTCA) bough them so you won't see those leave the market unless they fold, I know there is a lawsuit about their shipping company and them. Carey might know more.


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

We also had a Coleman popup as our previous trailer, it was a 2000 Niagara. It was great except for the roof which developed the all too common sag. Before we sold it I had the roof replaced under the warranty and it cost me $900 for the shipping. I checked the warranty wording very closely and if you didn't have to pay the shipping it was either a 96 model year or the dealer chose to cover the cost to keep you as a happy customer. Somewhere close to Indiana they might have been willing to do that but out west where the shipping costs were around $1000 there's no way a dealer would suck up that much. The whole thing left me with a bad opinion of Fleetwood/Coleman because it was very clear that it was an inherent design flaw that they knew about for years before they changed the design. Also, from what I've seen around campgrounds it's just a matter of time until nearly all of those style roofs fail. On our last trip we saw a Coleman popup that looked like our old one and the roof looked terrible. I felt sorry for the owners because if they weren't the original owners there is really nothing they could do to fix it at a reasonable cost.


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

I am not a fan of Fleetwood trailers but still hate to see them go. Sooner or later this massive loss of competition (all failures combined) will cost consumers dearly and it will take a very long time to re-establish.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Boy when they go they go down hard..

Here is some news about Monaco....

COBURG, Ore. -- Monaco Coach Corp. filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on Thursday but said it intends to continue operating so it can sell off all or part of the business.

Monaco listed assets of $442.1 million and debts of $208.8 million as of Sept. 27, the end of the third quarter. But even since it obtained new financing in November, the economic climate has deteriorated considerably and national and global credit markets have tightened, the company said.

Though its headquarters are in Coburg, Monaco filed for bankruptcy in Delaware, the state where it filed incorporation papers. The company estimated that it has between 25,000 and 50,000 creditors.

Its largest unsecured creditors are Custom Chassis Products of Elkhart, Ind., which is owed $6.8 million, and Quality Enterprises USA, a utility installation contractor in Naples, Fla., which is owed $2.68 million.

Local unsecured creditors include API Inc., a distributor of automotive paint and industrial supplies in Eugene, which is owed $594,476; Industrial Finishes Inc., a Eugene supplier of paint and other finishes, which is owed $427,984; and Guaranty RV, a Junction City RV dealer, which is owed $334,028.

The company also has more than 200 local shareholders, large and small, according to its bankruptcy filing. When a company reorganizes under a Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing, the shareholders are paid only after all other debts have been paid, and only if there is money left.

Monaco's 10 Largest Unsecured Creditors

1. Custom Chassis Products, Elkhart, Ind., $6.84 million
2. Quality Enterprises USA, Naples, Fla., $2.68 million
3. Lazydays RV Center, Seffner, Fla., $1.11 million
4. Onan Corp., Fridley, Minn., $1.05 million
5. Hardwoods Specialty Products, Renton, Wash., $815,330
6. Acunto Landscape & Design, Marco Island, Fla., $697,395
7. Patrick Industries Inc., Elkhart, Ind., $691,500
8. Villa International, Cerritos, Calif., $691,174
9. Horizon Transport Inc., Wakarusa, Ind., $684,037
10. Carefree of Colorado, Broomfield, Colo., $619,540


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Y-Guy said:


> None of the companies are profitable right now.. The one with the deepest pockets will still be there.. They all say they are good financially. but those words are just not true right now..


I could very easily see it coming down to Thor & Forest River in the trailer market along with some smaller companies in the specialized niche market. You've got to think the guys over at Keystone were thrilled to hear Fleetwood leaving the market.

As for the old Coleman/Fleetwood trailers, that portion of the company was already sold off - Folding Trailer Company Acquisition Inc., (FTCA) bough them so you won't see those leave the market unless they fold, I know there is a lawsuit about their shipping company and them. Carey might know more.
[/quote]

Yea I had heard something about that.. Dont remember the exact story.. I think the shipping company is owed like 1/2 million... I believe the shipping company went out of biz...

Carey


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## 4 Outbackers (Mar 5, 2008)

We also had a coleman popup (UTAH) it was a 2001 model. The roof had to be replaced under warranty but at no cost to us.
We have had several popups over the years before we bought our Outback and felt that the Coleman was the best out there. I was dissapointed when fleetwood took them over ,hopefully they will survive with thier new owner.


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Steve&Barb said:


> We also had a coleman popup (UTAH) it was a 2001 model. The roof had to be replaced under warranty but at no cost to us.
> We have had several popups over the years before we bought our Outback and felt that the Coleman was the best out there. I was dissapointed when fleetwood took them over ,hopefully they will survive with thier new owner.


Perhaps COLEMAN might want to get into the biz







They could pick up the name for a song.


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## Dave_CDN (Sep 13, 2007)

I was at our local RV show 2 weekend's ago and the dealer told me Coleman has taken back the pop up line from Fleetwood and will continue to manufacture. I like so many others in this thread have had nothing but a positive experience with Coleman Pop-ups. Both our 1996 Santa Fe and a 2002 Utah provided many trisp of enjoyable camping, well minus the rainy day tear downs. We are currently in the process of selling the 02 Utah so we can join this crew of Outback owners.


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Dave_CDN said:


> I was at our local RV show 2 weekend's ago and the dealer told me Coleman has taken back the pop up line from Fleetwood and will continue to manufacture. I like so many others in this thread have had nothing but a positive experience with Coleman Pop-ups. Both our 1996 Santa Fe and a 2002 Utah provided many trisp of enjoyable camping, well minus the rainy day tear downs. We are currently in the process of selling the 02 Utah so we can join this crew of Outback owners.


HA! Hilarious! My mindless babbling was actually correct for a change


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## AbbeysRoad (Dec 22, 2008)

Dave_CDN said:


> I was at our local RV show 2 weekend's ago and the dealer told me Coleman has taken back the pop up line from Fleetwood and will continue to manufacture. I like so many others in this thread have had nothing but a positive experience with Coleman Pop-ups. Both our 1996 Santa Fe and a 2002 Utah provided many trisp of enjoyable camping, well minus the rainy day tear downs. We are currently in the process of selling the 02 Utah so we can join this crew of Outback owners.


I think it would be great if the Coleman Pop-up sticks around and takes over Fleetwood. We just upgraded to an outback from our Fleetwood Popup (Sunvalley). We loved the pop-up and when comparing them against other brands of pop-ups felt they were superior in many ways. We did however have a problem right off the bat with the roof which had a small leak noted on our PDI, which was going to lead to them replacing the roof. We took the camper home only to find the roof leaked even further causing more damage. Our dealer replaced the whole trailer for a brand new one. It sounds as if the one complaint with them was roof leaks. Hopefully Coleman can improve the roof issues and come out with a great pop up again. We will miss our pop-up, we had many enjoyable trips as well, but am looking foward to not fearing the skies when it comes time to pack up.

Julie


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Fleetwood and Coleman got into it a few years ago and thus dropped the Coleman trailer name and became Fleetwood, which just never sounded right.

Well now if you got to www.colemantrailers.com it is once again active. "FTCA, Inc., the manufacturer of Coleman® Camping Trailers, is focused solely on camping trailers and is committed to building only the best..." Appears they have been using the Coleman name again since August 2008.

I thougth it was interesting how they played on the Colman name, "North America's best selling brand of camping trailers - a position we have earned every year since 1979" event thought Fleetwood dropped the Coleman name for a number of years. Don't worry the guys in marketing can spin anything, ""Founded in 1966, the camping trailer business originated as a division of The Coleman® Company, Inc. with the first trailers rolling off the assembly line in 1967. In 1979 the company attained market share leadership and has never relinquished the position. Fleetwood Enterprises Inc. acquired the division in 1989 to augment its position in the RV industry. As Fleetwood Folding Trailers, Inc., the division continued the Coleman® heritage of producing innovative high quality camping trailers, and with its customer satisfaction focused dealer network, achieved new market share heights."

The other news today was that Fleetwood is playing paper games in filing Chapter 11 paperwork "voluntary Chapter 11 petitions for itself and certain operating subsidiaries in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Central District of California in Riverside."


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Ok, so if the Coleman pop ups aren't affected, then I didn't see anything in the fleetwood trailer buisness worth saving. IMHO of course.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Saddens Me...........

I loved our first TT, Fleetwood Terry Manor....it had tons of storage, 100 gallons fresh water capacity......just a bit heavy
Yes 100 gallon fresh water.....we never ran out!!









And here was the Beauty
We called it the "Griswald"









We loved the bathroom door.............

Probably why we loved the 310BHDS Instantly...............we looked at a fleetwood that was similar........but was much heavier, and not as nice as the outback............Glad we made the right decision!!!


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## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

It seems a significant loss anytime we lose a main competitor in any large product manufacturing industry. It means less competition on the tail end of the recession and that can lead to inflated prices to recover recession losses. Competition keeps that in check. There are a lot of folks out there who own Fleetwood that have got to be pretty saddened by this; they bought their trailers because it was the best in their mind and now their manufacturer is out of business. This is not good for any of us.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Nathan said:


> Ok, so if the Coleman pop ups aren't affected, then I didn't see anything in the fleetwood trailer buisness worth saving. IMHO of course.


Other than the jobs lost..............I know you agree









John


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Dave_CDN said:


> I was at our local RV show 2 weekend's ago and the dealer told me Coleman has taken back the pop up line from Fleetwood and will continue to manufacture. *I like so many others in this thread have had nothing but a positive experience with Coleman Pop-ups.* Both our 1996 Santa Fe and a 2002 Utah provided many trisp of enjoyable camping, well minus the rainy day tear downs. We are currently in the process of selling the 02 Utah so we can join this crew of Outback owners.


I am glad to hear this! We had a '91 Shenandoah and it lasted us many years! We had a problem early on with our canvas and it was replaced with no problems. I, too, have nothing but positive to say about Coleman!!


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## bbwb (Apr 4, 2008)

It looks like most of everyone here started with a Coleman/Fleetwood popup prior to the Outback...us too. We had a '04 Fleetwood Sedona before our 23rs. Here is a pic of our old friend.










We only had one problem with the A/C gasket and installation leaking. Once I took it apart and installed it properly, no more problems.

bbwb


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

BigBadBrain said:


> It seems a significant loss anytime we lose a main competitor in any large product manufacturing industry. It means less competition on the tail end of the recession and that can lead to inflated prices to recover recession losses. Competition keeps that in check. There are a lot of folks out there who own Fleetwood that have got to be pretty saddened by this; they bought their trailers because it was the best in their mind and now their manufacturer is out of business. This is not good for any of us.


I totally agree.. The wreckoning isnt even close to being over.. I am hearing some rumors that few would believe.. This aint the place for those though.. I will guarantee you, some more out of biz surprises are just around the corner..

Carey


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

tdvffjohn said:


> Ok, so if the Coleman pop ups aren't affected, then I didn't see anything in the fleetwood trailer buisness worth saving. IMHO of course.


Other than the jobs lost..............I know you agree









John
[/quote]
Yes, of course. I'm sorry to have implied otherwise.








I was refering to the models, not the human side of the equation.

We looked at Fleetwood trailers briefly when looking to upgrade. The models we saw were poorly laid out, heavy, and the assembly seemed significantly worse than normal for the industry. After a couple looks, DW suggested that we stop looking at Fleetwood.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> It seems a significant loss anytime we lose a main competitor in any large product manufacturing industry. It means less competition on the tail end of the recession and that can lead to inflated prices to recover recession losses. Competition keeps that in check. There are a lot of folks out there who own Fleetwood that have got to be pretty saddened by this; they bought their trailers because it was the best in their mind and now their manufacturer is out of business. This is not good for any of us.


I totally agree.. The wreckoning isnt even close to being over.. I am hearing some rumors that few would believe.. This aint the place for those though.. I will guarantee you, some more out of biz surprises are just around the corner..

Carey
[/quote]

Say it isn't so!!!!

You are not implying keystone rumors............I hope.............


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

bbwb said:


> It looks like most of everyone here started with a Coleman/Fleetwood popup prior to the Outback...us too. We had a '04 Fleetwood Sedona before our 23rs. Here is a pic of our old friend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As I said earlier, we loved our Coleman pop-up. The photo below is from our last westward trip, in 2006. We left Peoria, IL, and stopped at Devil's tower, in Sundance, WY, then Glacier National Park. The photo below is our DD outside our 2000 Coleman Bayside - in the (private) campground at Hungry Horse, MT (just a few miles from the park entrance).










From GNP, we drove to my sister's house, in Boise, and after a 4-5 day visit, we returned home by way of Arches NP and Canyonlands NP, Moab, UT.

We pulled that old friend about 4800 miles that summer. We sold it and then bought our Outback just weeks after returning home.

Mike


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

Scoutr2 said:


> It looks like most of everyone here started with a Coleman/Fleetwood popup prior to the Outback...us too. We had a '04 Fleetwood Sedona before our 23rs. Here is a pic of our old friend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As I said earlier, we loved our Coleman pop-up. The photo below is from our last westward trip, in 2006. We left Peoria, IL, and stopped at Devil's tower, in Sundance, WY, then Glacier National Park. The photo below is our DD outside our 2000 Coleman Bayside - in the (private) campground at Hungry Horse, MT (just a few miles from the park entrance).










From GNP, we drove to my sister's house, in Boise, and after a 4-5 day visit, we returned home by way of Arches NP and Canyonlands NP, Moab, UT.

We pulled that old friend about 4800 miles that summer. We sold it and then bought our Outback just weeks after returning home.

Mike
[/quote]


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Ok, I can join in with pictures too:

















Sorry for the quality, it's pre-digital for me.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Here is one of my Coleman. We put a cargo carrier on top to help carry all the stuff we drag along.


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

We put a cargo carrier on top to help carry all the stuff we drag along.

[/quote]

we put an air conditioner on top so I COULD GO ALONG!


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

I'm all in. Figured I'd show all you folks some boondocking....O_C style.







Click on image bar to get a the SUPER sized picture!! Note the axe and the load of branches...looks like I had some work to be done.


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