# Have A Legal Question.



## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

Here is the short version. 4 weeks a go my job called me and said they were closing the company. They said they wanted to keep all of the employees for 5 to 7 weeks to help close the stores. They put together a pay plan and said they had set money aside to pay every one. The pay plan was salary and bonuses paid on sales. They said they were going to pay out all vacation and the weekly bonuses at the end. The sales bonuses were to be paid on a biweekly basis with normal pay. Well on Fridays check the bonus was short, they paid 2 of the 14 days. They said they were sending a make up check. That was yesterday, well today they tossed us out of the building and told us we were not getting paid at all. No normal check, no bonus, no vacation, no nothing. Can they do that? Is there any thing i can do about it?


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

First off Lee, I'm so sorry to hear of your situation. Losing a job a bad enough, but then getting screwed by your employer after a show of dedication and loyalty beyond anything they had any right to expect is unbelievable!

As far as the legal end of it goes (and I'm not a lawyer), do you have any written documentation of the offer they made? Without that, your case is going to be tougher to prove. Secondly, even if you do win, is the company going to have the money to pay up? If this was a bankruptcy situation, there may be nothing to give. If it is a bankruptcy, I could see the court adding you to a list of creditors and suppliers that the company left holding the bag, and unfortunately, your take would probably be based on what percentage your claim is of the total debt the company owes.

I wish I could be more positive, but I'm afraid this isn't likely to end the way you want to see it. You might get a moral victory, and never see any money.

Hopefully Ghosty, or one of the other legal eagles on the forum will chime in and reverse everything I have opined!

Anyway, Hang in there guys.

Hopeful Trails,
Doug


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

So sorry to hear about that.









I think we have a few lawyer's around here....


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Sorry to hear about your job. Back in the late 90's I worked for a company to which I was laid off from and eventually went bankrupt. I waited to move my savings plan and when I did it was caught up in the bankruptcy and the money wasn't released for 2 years - I was lucky I got that...

So, if this company is heading for bankruptcy, and you have money tied up in a savings plan, I would move it.....


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## garyb1st (Dec 6, 2007)

Sorry about that. Tough even in the best of times. I agree with Doug regarding litigation. Even if they have some assets, it could be months and maybe years before you could see any of the money they owe you. Better to focus on the future.

Good luck


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## 'Ohana (May 20, 2007)

Sorry to read of your unfortunate situation







and will be hoping that everything turns out ok









Also I'll be keeping a close eye to the post's from our legal eagles, as the company I've worked at for 15+ yrs seems to be up to some sort of mystery moves by years end







and they're doing things not typical of the past









Best of luck,
Ed


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Sorry to hear of your situation................But you can't get Blood From A Stone and unfortunately getting a lwayer would only be throwing good money away to go after Bad money.

I have had several Contractors file bankruptcy on me over the years...................and you get pennies on the dollar............if you pay quarters to an attorney to get your pennies..........

Karma will get them back and hopefully offer Brighter days ahead for you!!


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## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

Thanks for the info. Yes i have everything in emails and writing. As far as my savings plan, It is in a fidelity account. I have talked with them and they say its safe and sound as i was 100% vested. I didnt think i would ever see the money, but i thought i would ask as they owe me about 6k. Thanks again for all of the kind words.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

sleecjr said:


> As far as my savings plan, It is in a fidelity account. I have talked with them and _*they say its safe and sound*_ as i was 100% vested.


Is this the same 'They' that were going to be there for you if you helped them out wrapping things up?









If you have the option, I think I would get that money out of the mix as quickly as I could. It may be that it is safe where it is, but considering the integrity of your former employers word of late, I wouldn't want to take the chance.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## LarryTheOutback (Jun 15, 2005)

If this is a Traditional 401K (or other similar plan) containing money that was Pre-Tax, there are some tax implications to moving the funds unless you do it correctly and within certain timelines. Fidelity should be able to tell you how to do it without tax penalty. You can also consult with a financial planner who knows about such things. Your first step should be to learn the tax implications of any moves you make with this money, or else you can end up with a big tax penalty at the end of the year.

Ed


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Lee, different states have different rules on things like this. I've moved around enough to know that I don't know squat. You may want to call your State Labor & Industries equivalent and talk to them. Some states require certain notice time frames and other legal things be done. If nothing else call the Attorney General office and speak with them about your situation. If they made some promises they may have to honor them, if its worth the legal fight that becomes the bigger question. Now is a good time to call up other effected co-workers though so you can work together. Good luck!


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## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

Thanks guys. I already have an IRA with fidelity now. They told me i could just mover the money over with no problems. I don't even need to change funds. As far as the other, I think i am going to file a claim and see where it goes. Not sure what it could hurt. I still don't know what they are dong with my health insurance.


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## 3LEES (Feb 18, 2006)

sleecjr said:


> Thanks guys. I already have an IRA with fidelity now. They told me i could just mover the money over with no problems. I don't even need to change funds. As far as the other, I think i am going to file a claim and see where it goes. Not sure what it could hurt. I still don't know what they are dong with my health insurance.


Hey Lee,
If they hosed you with your bonus's, you can pretty much be assured that your health insurance will soon cease to exist, if it hasn't already.

Sherry's employer has not paid the health insurance premium for the month of Nov., so we are uninsured right now. She just found this out today. The company says it is working on a solution, so we are giving them a few days before we act. I can get insurance through my employer, but it is VERY expensive. ($900.00+ per month)

All we can do is pray, work toward making things better and hope for the best.

Dan


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## 5th Time Around (Jul 8, 2008)

Lee,

I feel your pain. As far as Health Insurance goes - I do know this area very well. The State of Florida offers health insurance to all uninsured children. It is a sliding fee from $15 - $250 per month with a $5 copay for doctors, hospitals, and medicine. The monthly premium is dependant on the income of the parents. It takes a little time to work through the system but it is well worth it, my kids were on it for 6 years because my husbands employers insurance was unaffordable. Check out www.healthykids.org and click on submit an application. Broken bones are all too common for my family, so don't wait to apply. It is not Medicaid and is not welfare, but the State wants every child insured.

Hope all works out for you.

Jennifer


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

First, I'm sorry to hear this news. Finding oneself unemployed is never an easy thing. At least you can walk away and begin rebuilding knowing that you were not the cause. Makes it much easier to sell yourself in the future.

Now.... I am NOT a lawyer, but this is the world I worked in for many years. At this point, you don't need a lawyer - - - nor are you alone in this. As suggested, you need to contact your State's officials and get them rolling on this. Unemployment offices, State labor officials, AGs office, town mayor and/or selectmen, local Congressperson ... all can be of assistance. I did a quick search on-line and found several Florida State resources - they are there to be used by YOU (that's part of why you've paid your taxes). Not only do you want to speak with your local Unemployment Office to get your own benefits rolling - but the State resources will have LOTS of other resources for you. They'll also be able to connect you right away with the appropriate personnel. The correct office will take this all very seriously (after all, that's why they exist), they'll gather all the facts and go to bat for the employees. There are both State & Federal laws on the books to protect employees in just this kind of scenario, including laws that address compensation, accrued but unpaid benefits (ie. vacation), continuation of insurance coverage, etc. Employee Rights are taken very seriously and - _IF_ there is a bankruptcy - you are likely to find, among other things, that you are at the _FRONT_ of the line - not the back. Additionally, some State's (I don't know FL process) actually have a State fund from which workers who are left in the lurch are actually paid. Keep in mind that laws vary dramatically State by State, and State & Federal laws may differ significantly too. There are professionals working for the State of Florida who will know all the ins & outs already.

As for your Fidelity account - I presume this is a 401K (or equivalent) .... as opposed to a retirement fund, pension, or the like which would actually be held by and managed by the company?? If so - the money AND the actual account are yours and the company has no more access to it today than they did last week. In fact, an employing business can disappear altogether and the employee's 401(k) account remains unscathed - it's yours (legally & operationally). You don't have to move it or change names or anything. Oh - and you can certainly rely on Fidelity for advice with this.

Best wishes! Hope this helped.


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## prevish gang (Mar 19, 2006)

Lee,

I really hurt for you and Amy because I have, in the past, had similar employer issues where my hands were tied. The State Attorney General sounds like a great idea and do get that insurance for Bella just in case. Prayers will go out for you all in order to help guide you towards the right solutions and to guard against allowing bitterness to set in. It is normal to be angry, hurt, and shocked by all of this, but not all employers would do this to someone and I pray the lucky person who gets to hire you next is so good that you will feel like Tweeters did you a favor!

Darlene and Don


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Lee, I just saw a News report about Tweeter closing all stores nationwide. They are clearly within the US AG's office sights! Sounds like you'll have LOTS of company and the advantage of this now being a Federal issue, not just a FL issue. You'll be on an employee list for sure and I'ld certainly suggest you contact your State so you will be known to be one of the actively "hosed" ones. At the same time, move on with your life and take care of yourself and your family...employment cases - let alone nationwide cases - never move quickly.


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## snew (Apr 17, 2007)

Same thing happened to Big A at the beginning of the year. I understand the stress you and your family are experiencing. I pray for a fast replacement job for you with even better benefits and pay









Anyway, research the WARN act. Big A researched it during his time of dismissal and found there are laws governing what the company has to do during a shutdown. I'm not sure this applies in your case, but it's worth looking into.

Best Wishes!!


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## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

Thanks for all of the info. It has been a crazy day. They called and want us to go back to work! The judge denied the chapter 7. We are asking to be paid now the money they owe us before we go back. Lets see how it goes. They said we should know with in a day.


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## Rubrhammer (Nov 27, 2006)

Keep the faith Lee. I hate to sound cliche, but this could be an opportunity to get a job you might not have thought of or gone after while securely employed. Good luck and know that you have a lot of people here praying for you.
Bob


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## bmxmom (Jun 3, 2005)

Hi Lee,

Hang in there. We are praying for everything to work out. If the judge denied Chapter 7 doesn't that mean they have money? I really do not have a clue but that is what crossed my mind.

Anne


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## mike (Dec 17, 2006)

Lee, i hope ur luck changes. You and your family are good people and we wish u the best.


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## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

Thanks for all of the support. We are now being told the judge OKed the chapter 7 but set aside 900000.00 to pay the employees. They say we are getting paid. We will see how it goes. It would be nice. The crazy part about this whole thing is my company has never called me at all. Every bit of info i have received is from the company hired to do the liquidation.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

sleecjr said:


> Thanks for all of the support. We are now being told the judge OKed the chapter 7 but set aside 900000.00 to pay the employees. They say we are getting paid. We will see how it goes. It would be nice. The crazy part about this whole thing is my company has never called me at all. Every bit of info i have received is from the company hired to do the liquidation.


That's likely part of the arrangement between Tweeter & the other company....may even be a legal requirement.

Congrats on the employee set-aside!


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Over the years 3 trucking companies have done this to me. One for about 2000, one for about 3500 and one for 3000..

Never could be recoverd as I was a unsecured in there bankruptcies.. I did make it known on the bankruptcy paperwork each time.. made no difference.

I had a total of about 15k taken from my paychecks in taxes that these owners never paid to the IRS also.. I also claimed the money taken at tax time and just let the IRS deal with there wrongs..

Most truckers get screwed by companies all the time.. Me included.. They smooze us till the last day..

I know things have went to hell when I pull into the yard and I see wreckers picking up the semis..

This has always happened at xmas each time.. Talk about a ruined xmas!

If the company is going bankrupt and has no equity in anything, forget it, your not getting paid..

Carey


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

sleecjr said:


> Thanks for all of the support. We are now being told the judge OKed the chapter 7 but set aside 900000.00 to pay the employees. They say we are getting paid. We will see how it goes. It would be nice. The crazy part about this whole thing is my company has never called me at all. Every bit of info i have received is from the company hired to do the liquidation.


Great news!! keep the faith - things will work out!


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> If the company is going bankrupt and has no equity in anything, forget it, your not getting paid..
> 
> Carey


Not always true! You need to look at the big picture and determine whats right in your situation. I had a boat dealer owe me $52,000 after taking my boat, selling it, keeping the money and filing for bankruptcy. (long, long story) anyways, we sued the dealer, the buyer of the boat and the bank that lended them the money. In the end, i got my money, the buyer got the boat and the dealer is in jail. A good attorney saved us......









Not quite the same situation but just thought id show that you CAN get what is owed to you during a bankruptcy depending on the situation and knowledge. Never give up. Get informed.

Good luck, looks like things are going a little better so far. 
We will keep you in our thoughts !!


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Sayonara said:


> If the company is going bankrupt and has no equity in anything, forget it, your not getting paid..
> 
> Carey


Not always true! You need to look at the big picture and determine whats right in your situation. I had a boat dealer owe me $52,000 after taking my boat, selling it, keeping the money and filing for bankruptcy. (long, long story) anyways, we sued the dealer, the buyer of the boat and the bank that lended them the money. In the end, i got my money, the buyer got the boat and the dealer is in jail. A good attorney saved us......









Not quite the same situation but just thought id show that you CAN get what is owed to you during a bankruptcy depending on the situation and knowledge. Never give up. Get informed.

Good luck, looks like things are going a little better so far. 
We will keep you in our thoughts !!








[/quote]

Oh dont worry I looked at the big picture... Have several times.. My picture was having to use my credit cards to buy my kids xmas and pay all my bills for a good month till I could get back on my feet each and every time.

If an employer is going bankrupt and has nothing left. Nothing is going to get your money.. I done my part of getting on the "money owed" list with the bankruptcy courts.. Never done any good..

One employer had over 5 million owed.. I never had a slim chance of getting my measly 3 grand.

I appreciate your positive spin, but for most people in these situtaions they are screwed..

Yea makes me want out of the truckin biz.. Well Im trying.. Sick of it.. Well... Now Im back to truckin cause there is nothing else right now in these bad times.

Your dealer stealing your boat is unfortantly more illegal than not paying employees.. The two have no real resemblance..

Carey


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## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> If the company is going bankrupt and has no equity in anything, forget it, your not getting paid..
> 
> Carey


Not always true! You need to look at the big picture and determine whats right in your situation. I had a boat dealer owe me $52,000 after taking my boat, selling it, keeping the money and filing for bankruptcy. (long, long story) anyways, we sued the dealer, the buyer of the boat and the bank that lended them the money. In the end, i got my money, the buyer got the boat and the dealer is in jail. A good attorney saved us......









Not quite the same situation but just thought id show that you CAN get what is owed to you during a bankruptcy depending on the situation and knowledge. Never give up. Get informed.

Good luck, looks like things are going a little better so far. 
We will keep you in our thoughts !!








[/quote]

Oh dont worry I looked at the big picture... Have several times.. My picture was having to use my credit cards to buy my kids xmas and pay all my bills for a good month till I could get back on my feet each and every time.

If an employer is going bankrupt and has nothing left. Nothing is going to get your money.. I done my part of getting on the "money owed" list with the bankruptcy courts.. Never done any good..

One employer had over 5 million owed.. I never had a slim chance of getting my measly 3 grand.

I appreciate your positive spin, but for most people in these situtaions they are screwed..

Yea makes me want out of the truckin biz.. Well Im trying.. Sick of it.. Well... Now Im back to truckin cause there is nothing else right now in these bad times.

Your dealer stealing your boat is unfortantly more illegal than not paying employees.. The two have no real resemblance..

Carey
[/quote]

They have money. We still have 4.5 million in inventory + assets like vans, trucks and real estate.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Your dealer stealing your boat is unfortantly more illegal than not paying employees.. The two have no real resemblance..
> Carey


Thats why i stated that they were not quite the same situation....Except for the fact that the company filed for bankruptcy, had nothing to their name but I got my money. For months they hid behind their "bankruptcy". If the company does unethical (or illegal) practices behind the scenes, a good attorney can dig in to that and go through the right channels to help. i walked away for a couple months thinking i was SOL. People both in person and on a boating forum were stating that if they went bankrupt your not going to get anything.... In my case, once my attorney was engaged, they uncovered oversights in the banks authorization of funds for the new owner to buy the boat and i was able to go to the top of the creditor list and recover my money. again, it was just an example, not the same situation, I know but was in response to a comment that stated if the company went bankrupt, your not getting paid.

sleecjr, keep your head up and good luck! sorry this topic got off track.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Hey guys - there are several forms of bankruptcy; many, many reasons why a company/individual files for BK protection (only sometimes is it because there really is no (= $0 ) money; each situation is unique; NOT paying employees what they're due IS illegal (ergo. in this case, Lee has already said that $900k has been set aside); and making *any* assumptions about *any* legal situation in which one doesn't know _ALL_ the details (and a lay-person NEVER does...that's *why* there would be a court and, in this case, a BK trustee involved) is a rather fool-hardy practice.

I'm sorry to hear of C/D's repeated experience in the Trucking business and glad to hear that Sayonara's boat was paid for, but BOTH cases have their own set of facts with different laws applying to each. Tweeter is a national (international?) corporation and it will likely take quite some time for the BK Trustees to unravel the facts and figure out who - other than the employees - gets paid (& how).

Lee is caught up in a very unfortunate situation at a lousy time (is there *ever* a "good" time??







) - but he will (eventually) get his $$. Seems he needs our support now, not more speculation.
















PS. This is NOT "flaming" - - - just a reality check.


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