# 5th Wheels Owners Check This Out



## highrigger_1 (Aug 8, 2004)

I have a 5th wheel, up by the marker lights the nose is caving in. It pulled apart the roof from the nose cap at the seam. The problem is not enough support, so my 5th wheel is in getting a new beam put across the front to stop the caving in, hopefully it will work. I looked on the lot at the dealership and seen that alot of the new 5th wheels had caving in to some degree. I talk to the dealership and they said that they will be fixing alot of them in the next year! Where I'm talking about is right above the marker lights but not on the roof, the span between the two in front. If you have a 5th wheel get a ladder and climb up there and look because its a defect, and you will see how soft it feels. When I took it home it wasn't that bad after a 3 times using it I notice it when I was fueling up at a truck stop. It went form the size of your fist to 3 foot long and pull apart the roof seam. ITS A BIG PROBLEM, but it can be fix fair easy at least I hope, havn't receive it back yet.

I also had some other problems a water leak, water damage, water pump nosie, screws falling, out and the border peeling off the inside walls.

I still like my 5th wheel I have stayed in it about 7weeks all together some of the stuff at the end here are just minor stuff, but stuff that still needs to be fixed.

To all 5th wheel owners check it out and get it fixed before its to late. I do have pictures if you want to see them, but I don't know how to put them on here. Ask me I'll try and get them to you.

One other thing just a suggestion USE YOUR TRAILER, get all the problems fix before its to late

I hope this helps someone
bye


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

I definityly want to see your pictures. My warranty is up in May. Can you e-mail them to me and I'll post them from my web site? I'm sure all the 5-owners would like to see the pictures.


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

I definitely want to see them as well. My 28FRL-S has a concave spot about a foot or so wide, not very deep above each marker light. Since they are bi-lateral, I assumed it was normal. Thanks for alerting us to the problem .


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## highrigger_1 (Aug 8, 2004)

GlenninTexas said:


> I definitely want to see them as well.Â My 28FRL-S has a concave spot about a foot or so wide, not very deep above each marker light. Since they are bi-lateral, I assumed it was normal. Thanks for alerting us to the problem .
> [snapback]21100[/snapback]​


The area will drop down, but it can't drop too far because of the space. Its only 3"or 4" if that deep with insulation in between. The problem is when the shifting of the fiberglass drops down it pulls apart the roof seams or like the other person on the web site says it cracks the fiberlass.


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## Campfire Squad (Nov 15, 2004)

I have not had the opportunity to look at mine yet, but I would like to see the pictures. Thanks for the heads up!

Dave.


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## Campfire Squad (Nov 15, 2004)

I'm not real sure how to add the pictures, I have only posted one in the gallery. I'm sure that somebody will chime in with some info, sorry.

Dave


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## highrigger_1 (Aug 8, 2004)

vdub said:


> I definityly want to see your pictures. My warranty is up in May. Can you e-mail them to me and I'll post them from my web site? I'm sure all the 5-owners would like to see the pictures.
> [snapback]21089[/snapback]​


I did email them to you let me know if you got the pictures.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

That's the right address. Nothing has shown up yet (1832 pst). I'll check again in a few minutes.

Whoops! Got'em. They went to spam....

Standby and I'll post.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

I see what you mean. I don't think I have that, but I'm sure going to check it out. Mine is an '04, so I wonder if this is strictly an '05 problem? Did you put the silicon on to temporarily patch the torn part?

Pictures are here, guys!
http://www.rv.wasem.com/5-caving.jpg


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## highrigger_1 (Aug 8, 2004)

vdub said:


> I see what you mean.Â I don't think I have that, but I'm sure going to check it out.Â Mine is an '04, so I wonder if this is strictly an '05 problem?Â Did you put the silicon on to temporarily patch the torn part?
> 
> Pictures are here, guys!
> http://www.rv.wasem.com/5-caving.jpg
> [snapback]21173[/snapback]​


No I didn't put silicone on. I took it to the dealership for repair before damage could occur. I would definitely check it out, because the lack of support will cause problems. The caved portion wasn't as pictured when I purchased it. It continued to get worse after some use.
Thanks for posting the pictures.


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## jgheesling (Sep 28, 2004)

I posted my pictures at the Gallery Members Misc. Photos. Dealer tells me that the 05's rasied the roof line to add ceiling height in bedroom.


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

Thanks Campfire-Squad and VDUB. My indentation looks similar to the third picture. I'm going to call my dealer today to see what they say about it.

Regards, Glenn


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

I finally got around to taking some picture. The indentations, especially the one on the right side is even larger than I remember. Luckily, the seal has not broken yet. See the three pictures in the Gallery under 5th wheels.

I'll call the dealer today and send them these pictures.

Thanks again for informing us of this problem.

Regards, Glenn


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

I checked my '04 28F RL-S this weekend. It's straight, true, and solid. It must be an '05 thing due to the higher ceiling that jg mentioned. I'll look at the '05's this weekend at the RV show.


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## highrigger_1 (Aug 8, 2004)

GlenninTexas said:


> I finally got around to taking some picture. The indentations, especially the one on the right side is even larger than I remember. Luckily, the seal has not broken yet. See the three pictures in the Gallery under 5th wheels.
> 
> I'll call the dealer today and send them these pictures.
> 
> ...


I looked at the pictures it looks worst than mine, hope they can get it fixed for you.
My dealership is still working on mine, so I can't give any updates on it, but I can tell you its been a month already.
Good luck


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## highrigger_1 (Aug 8, 2004)

I talked to the Dealership about the roof being rasied, and he said "No changes from 04 to 05 on the roof line." So I don't know who's right, but I know that my 05 had a problem and the dealership add 2 cross beams to stiffing up the unsupported spot. I haved looked at it yet, but I'll pick it up Sat and look it over.
Plus I'm going to the RV show in Chicago IL, and I'm going to ask alot of question about the differents from 04 to 05 and few other things.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Yes, interesting. I'll be going to the Spokane RV show on Saturday and I'm going to ask some questions as well.


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## rdowns (Oct 20, 2004)

OK then, I have looked at my camper and there are two indentations above the light markers.







They appear almost symetrical- is this what we are talking about? Is it a problem for all units- any word back from Highrigger? The spots on mine are difficult to see- they almost look like an optical illusion- I would have passed it off if not for this thread. Certainly I want it supported- seems if it does it on one they are all subject. Any comment from Keystone? OK- enough questions for now shy


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## highrigger_1 (Aug 8, 2004)

I went to the Rv show and didn't get to talk to the keystone rep.,but the 05 outback on the show floor had the same problem. I talked to a couple of the dealerships that handle the outbacks and they hadn't notice the problem. I pointed it out to them and they just didn't act like it was their problem. I think they want to wait until they sale the unit, and then have warranty fix it. Which I can't blame the dealership because it's a factory defect.

The repair has been made on mine, and it looks great. The dealership put 2 cross beams in and bent the beams to the roof top. Its hard to explain, but your roof is peaked in the middle. To match up the roof to the nose cap they had to put a peak in the nose cap. That's where the new beams come in. I don't have any indentions on mine now and the nose cap is strong.

RDOWNS< Yes I think it's a problem for all units because the bedroom is the same on the 28 to 29 footers. The floor plan changes down on the main level.
I think it's even a problem for the 04 but I can' t support what jgheesling said about the manufacturer raising the roof line. The best way to check is if you have indention no matter how small get up on a ladder and push down on the nose cap across the width of the trailer. If it moves alot, like 1/2 in or more, its going to pull your seal apart, or crack like jgheesling did. Plus you can feel futher down on your nose cap see how strong it is and judge it by that. I think any movement would cause a problem with the seams.
I did look at the dealership and the 29 footer had the same problem.

One other thing to keep in mind is that they are all built the same way!!!!!!!!! 
Don't you think if Keystone just forgot to put in a brace, we all should take a hard look at our trailers to see what they forgot on yours.

I can understand something small, but a structural thing I can't see that.
So if it was mine I would get it fixed before my warranty runs out, even if the roof hasn't pulled apart or cracked yet. Thats my opinion. Hope everyone gets it fixed before the warranty runs out, or before it makes a bigger problem.

Highrigger_1


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## highrigger_1 (Aug 8, 2004)

Someone with a 04 get some measurements and I'll get some from a 05 and we could see if the roof line has changed? I'll get back with you.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Need some exact points to measure from. I have an 04. I looked at it last weekend and didn't see any problem. One thing I noticed when I looked at the 05's at the RV show is that they had a big glob of silicon about 2" wide and 4" long going down the side from where the roof meets the fiberglass. My '04 doesn't. I also looked at how straight my 04 was. I didn't see any problems and didn't feel any sag. It was solid as a rock.


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## highrigger_1 (Aug 8, 2004)

Like I said I haven't been able to support a change between 04 and 05, but I'm not saiding that their not.

To get measurements I would get one at the bottom of the trailer to the highest point which should be at the front.

Get one measurement where the fifth wheel makes a L to go to the fifth wheel hitch.

We should get a close enough by doing that.

My 05 doesn't have a 2" glob going down the side either. Unless your talking about down the front to the hitch?
Thats the new stuff called flow seal.


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

vdub said:


> One thing I noticed when I looked at the 05's at the RV show is that they had a big glob of silicon about 2" wide and 4" long going down the side from where the roof meets the fiberglass. [snapback]22171[/snapback]​


Take a look at the Left Side closeup picture I posted in the 5th wheel forum in the gallery, Left Side Closeup.

You can see the "glob" that VDUB is referring to on my unit. The right side has the same very thick layer of chaulk. Apparently somewhere along the line between 04 and 05, the factory the flaw was noticed. Most likely, the extra thick glob of chaulk was the factories attempt to "fix" the problem. Could be that 04 models manufactured earlier in the year were ok, but sometime during the year they decided to drop the extra support brace or change something in the manufacturing process to cause the deflection to occur.
I take my unit in tomorrow to get the repair.

Good luck to all, Glenn


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Correct! Glenn describes it perfectly. My '04 DOES NOT have the globs. These pics are highrigger's 5. I'm not sure when my rig was manufactured, but it would have been fairly early in the year since it was delivered to the dealer in Apr04.

When at the RV show last week, I noticed the peak in the center on the '05's. As I recall, mine is straight across with no peaking. I will try to run down to my storage shed this weekend and get some pictures and measurements.


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## highrigger_1 (Aug 8, 2004)

Ok I wasn't for sure what you were talking about down the side, but its all clear now.

I did see it with the 2" glob off and its just like the rest of the fiberglass going down the side, so I don't know if they had a leaking problem or not.


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## highrigger_1 (Aug 8, 2004)

I measured down from the roof seam straight down it was about 65". Then I measured back by the side out (closest to the front , using the sideout as a straight edge) it was about 9' foot.


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## chevy heavyduty (Jan 26, 2005)

<_Thanks My wife and are are very close to buying a new 5th wheel. I will see what the dealer has to say about this. Hopefully since I have to order the unit they will be able to add the support at the factory.


highrigger_1 said:


> I have a 5th wheel, up by the marker lights the nose is caving in. It pulled apart the roof from the nose cap at the seam. The problem is not enough support, so my 5th wheel is in getting a new beam put across the front to stop the caving in, hopefully it will work. I looked on the lot at the dealership and seen that alot of the new 5th wheels had caving in to some degree. I talk to the dealership and they said that they will be fixing alot of them in the next year! Where I'm talking about is right above the marker lights but not on the roof, the span between the two in front. If you have a 5th wheel get a ladder and climb up there and look because its a defect, and you will see how soft it feels. When I took it home it wasn't that bad after a 3 times using it I notice it when I was fueling up at a truck stop. It went form the size of your fist to 3 foot long and pull apart the roof seam. ITS A BIG PROBLEM, but it can be fix fair easy at least I hope, havn't receive it back yet.
> 
> I also had some other problems a water leak, water damage, water pump nosie, screws falling, out and the border peeling off the inside walls.
> 
> ...


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## jtevans25 (Jan 31, 2005)

We have an '04 29' fifth wheel Outback and have noticed the sagging and separation mentioned on this site--We will be calling the dealer tommorrow to see what kind of a solution they have to fix it ASAP...
We also experienced the water leak in the toilet hosing under the floor after noticing wet carpet beside the steps as you walk up to the master bedroom.This occured on the second time we used our new RV. 
We have also had a problem with our hot water heater and finally discovered that the heating element had gone out.We have only used our camper twice since our 
purchasing it in late July.We traded a 28 ' 2003 pull-behind travel trailer-Outback.
We like the 5th wheel a lot, but are trying to get all the kinks out.We have been a little discouraged with these problems, because this has limited our ability to use it as much as we would like to, due to it needing to be in the shop for these repairs.
I just remembered, we have also had a problem with some electrical outlets going out---out JFI switch has already been replaced.
Hppy Camping----I hope!!!!


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

My warranty will be up in May, so I pretty thoroughly checked it out this weekend. Didn't see any roof sag per se' (see pic). Also, checked for bubbling under the deal and didn't see anything. And, I checked the tightness of all the screws on the electrical block. Again, no problems. At this point, the only problems I have found have been very minor and very fixable. I hope the trend continues.


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## jtevans25 (Jan 31, 2005)

What Dealer did you have fix your problem, because our dealer says that Keystone won't fix the problem and our camper is under warranty until July??
There is a # at Keystone that I think we should all call and let them know they should post a re-call on '04's and 05's and fix it.The # at Keystone is 866-425-4369
ask for customer service or customer relations..I don't want it to reach the fiberglass and the seams..we have the problem on both sides and we want it fixed.
Any more suggestions???????


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

I have my 28Frl-S in the dealership now for evaluation. They have at least three other owners besides myself in or scheduled in for the same problem. Also , after I spoke to them, they inspected the units on their sales lot and discovered what appears to be the same issue on some of them. What the dealership knows at this point is Keystone will authorize warranty repair is there is a crack or the seam are split.

I've spoken with a person at Keystone who is reviewing the pictures of my unit. From talking to him it appears Keystone will make the decision whether to authorize repair on a unit-by-unit basis. I have not heard back on their decision yet.

Personally it appears there is a ground-swell and a significant number of units thatr are affected, so at some point Keystone will have no othwer choice but to do a recall.

Regards, Glenn


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

Well I just got a call from my dealer. Keystone has not authorized the repair since there is no crack. I'll collect the appropriate documentation on paper and wait until a crack occurs.
In the meantime, I hope no one at the campgrounds asks me about the big ol' dent in the cap. I'll have to explain that apparently Keystone doesn't care much about its image.

Anyone in the market for a slightly used 28FRL-S with a cool new-wave sort of effect on its front cap?

Regards, Glenn


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## rdowns (Oct 20, 2004)

Took mine in to get the nose fixed, they are supposed to look at it today, there is no crack, but the area is definitely soft and has to be fixed, I am a little surprised that Keystone is waiting for further damage, since it will most definitely be forthcoming. Oh well, it is their money!


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## jtevans25 (Jan 31, 2005)

I spoke to the dealer today, who now has the manager involved trying to get Keystone to step up to the plate because they are refusing to honor their warranty until a crack or leak occurs...I also spoke with a customer service rep at Keystone today who spoke with a supervisor and said she was only authorized to document the problems and when there was a crack or leak, then they would cover it under warranty.....I told them I guess we will all have to seek legal advice on the matter, because if you buy a new car, or house, etc.... bumper to bumper warranty means just that.If the siding was falling off, they would replace that, if the paint were peeling, they would fix that, they are just not wanting to admit that there is a definate manufacturing problem and fix it until all of our campers are damaged. Once again, here is the phone # to customer service at Keystone, 1-866-425-4369---I feel as though we should all call them daily with our concerns until they take care of this PROBLEM!I spoke with Tina, and the customer service supervisor is John Armstrong.Please call them because we can obtain success in numbers.I know they will have to declare a recall eventually, and us calling daily to complain and demand the right to our warranty will have an impact.
Not so happy outback owners...Jacque and Tracy Evans--Kyle,Tx.
Marshall's Travel Land in Buda is our Dealer and they are working on helping us resolve this problem....Let's stick together


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

jtevans25 said:


> I spoke to the dealer today, who now has the manager involved trying to get Keystone to step up to the plate because they are refusing to honor their warranty until a crack or leak occurs...I also spoke with a customer service rep at Keystone today who spoke with a supervisor and said she was only authorized to document the problems and when there was a crack or leak, then they would cover it under warranty.....I told them I guess we will all have to seek legal advice on the matter, because if you buy a new car, or house, etc.... bumper to bumper warranty means just that.If the siding was falling off, they would replace that, if the paint were peeling, they would fix that, they are just not wanting to admit that there is a definate manufacturing problem and fix it until all of our campers are damaged. Once again, here is the phone # to customer service at Keystone, 1-866-425-4369---I feel as though we should all call them daily with our concerns until they take care of this PROBLEM!I spoke with Tina, and the customer service supervisor is John Armstrong.Please call them because we can obtain success in numbers.I know they will have to declare a recall eventually, and us calling daily to complain and demand the right to our warranty will have an impact.
> Not so happy outback owners...Jacque and Tracy Evans--Kyle,Tx.
> Marshall's Travel Land in Buda is our Dealer and they are working on helping us resolve this problem....Let's stick together
> 
> ...


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## jtevans25 (Jan 31, 2005)

We called the dealer today to see the status on Keystone and was told that during the RV show here in Austin a Keystone rep. will be coming to the dealer and the show and wants to see first hand what the problem is. I ask the dealer if they needed us to bring the camper in and was told that with all the pictures and what is on the lot they believe this rep from Keystone will get what we are talking about.

Jacque and Tracy


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## rdowns (Oct 20, 2004)

Hi, dealer fixed mine right up. I am hoping to pick it up tomorrow and look at it. He said no problem from Keystone. They also did some door adjustments for me. Will report back how they did.


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## rdowns (Oct 20, 2004)

OK heres the update on my camper, I picked it up today, they did not fix the indentations. They said there were no structural issues, and suggested I call Keystone if I wanted them to add a support beam. They said I would have a lot more leerage. There was a place the osb wasnt nailed down on the roof and they fixed. So that is the latest on my end, i think I will call Keystone Monday a.m. aesthetically I can live with it but I do believe it will get worse as time goes on and llilkely cause bigger problems down the line.


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Doesn't sound like your dealer's service department wants to bother. So much for post sale customer service.

Good luck with Keystone.

Tim


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## Campfire Squad (Nov 15, 2004)

I finally got a chance to look at mine and I have the same thing







. I contacted my dealer and I am sending him some pictures. Mine does have a crack in the large "glob", I will see if this enough to warrant a repair or not







.

click here for picture

click here for picture

I will keep you up to date on what the dealer has to say.

David.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Mine doesn't have the glob. I figure the glob wouldn't be there unless Keystone figured it might be a problem area.


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

hatcityhosehauler said:


> Doesn't sound like your dealer's service department wants to bother. So much for post sale customer service.
> 
> Good luck with Keystone.
> 
> ...


I don't think its a matter of the local dealers not wanting to fix the situation. Keystone won't authorize the fix under warranty unless thee is a breach in the skin.

In the meantime, this is something to add to the PDI list for anyone wanting to purchase an OUtback 5'er. For that matter, the new models with the rounded front similar to 5'ers might also have the same problem.

Regards, Glenn


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## rvguy1 (Apr 14, 2004)

Hello everyone. I have spoken to a customer about his concern regarding the situation and also have reviewed all of our in-stock product. All of our Outback Fifth Wheels have this "dimple" in the roof line area.

I have no doubt that Outback will take the proper and necessary action to remedy a true defective situation. Just because there is a slight dip in the fiberglass does not constitute a defect necessarily. I am sure Outback will properly investigate. Their ownership and upper management people are not the type to bury their heads in the sand when faced with a problem...at least that's been my experience with them.

Bill Mirrielees
General Manager, Madison RV Center
Madison and Huntsville, Alabama
[email protected]


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Thanks, Bill! From what I've seen, Outback has been pretty responsive. I'm a little concerned about whether they would fix a major problem like this if it appeared after the warranty had expired, but hopefully that won't happen. There's quite a few of us with '04's that are getting ready to expire. Appreciate you comments and welcome to the forum.


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## rvguy1 (Apr 14, 2004)

Hello VDUB. Thanks for the kind words and the warm welcome. I spoke to TD the Product Manager for Outback yesterday. He mentioned being aware of the dimple situation. Outback is also keenly aware of this forum. I encouraged him to review this thread. T told me he would bring this issue up in their staff meeting today and discuss.

Once again, Outback has been extremely responsive in assisting us to take care of our customers. I have no doubt that they will take the proper steps to review, discuss and remedy the issue where needed.

Best regards,

Bill Mirrielees
General Manager, Madison RV Center
Huntsville and Madison, Alabama
[email protected]


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## jgheesling (Sep 28, 2004)

I have been talking with the dealer since the first of Oct on my 28FRLs crack see Post # 19938. I have it scheuduled for repair on March 1st. They are just going to fiberglass over the crack and repaint. But since this post has came about and seems everyone is noticing the dimples and different solutions for the fix. I called Keystone myself and they indicated that fixing the crack was "the fix" I noticed Highlander1 got some beams put in his nose but Keystone knew nothing of that. I mounted a small camera on the nose looking at the dimples and pulled the trailer at 70 mph down the interstate and noticed that there is a whole lot of flexing going on in the dimple area. I notice that mine cracked right at the last brace before it dips down. With the flexing I saw it just a matter of time before the bending back and forth and flexing will make the fiberglas turn to mush by breaking one glass thread at a time in that area.


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## highrigger_1 (Aug 8, 2004)

Hi everyone,

Sorry I been working so much I havn't time to keep up. Sounds like Keystone needs to be consistant on the repairs. 
Yes I had new support beams add to mine so far it seams to do the trick. I think just fixing the cracks in the fiberglass and the seals dosen't solve the problem.
Hope everyone can get this resolved.


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## Campfire Squad (Nov 15, 2004)

Well the 5'er went to the dealer today to be checked out. The service manager said that they would peel it back and see what it looked like and email me some pictures. When he sends the pictures I will post them for everyone to see. Pending on what they find he said that they would be adding support of some sort. It all sounds good but we will see. The dealer has been great to us so far. While it is there they are going to fix the duct work to solve the no heat in the front bedroom problem, and a few other small things that we have found.

Boy it sure was nice to get the camper out of storage and be able to go inside it and dream about camping!! Kind of hard to dream about nice warm camping weather when it was 8 degrees this morning and still about a foot of snow on the ground







It sure was nice to tow it again though









I will keep you posted on the progress.
David.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Well, we aren't dreaming of camping. Next weekend we are going to Lolo Hot Springs right on the Idaho/Montana border on US 12. No snow, but temps in teens at night. Should be a good test. Hope we don't have any caving problems. None indicated so far. Our warranty runs out in 2 months. I guess I could take a real close look at the rig when we get to Las Vegas in 2 weeks, then make a decision as to whether I should pulll the rig back. If it looks ok, then we intend to leave the 5 at Las Vegas for 3 months and come back solo. We'll pick it back up in Jun and head on to Pasadena, then up to Seattle, and finally home.


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## RCColby (Oct 12, 2004)

I took mine in to the dealer for some other minor repairs when I got back from my 6 week south trip last week and they said that they had not heard nothing of this problem. I showed them some printed copies and pictures off this webstring and they said they would check it out. I was not able to get a tall ladder and look at it myself before I took it in so don't know if there are any large "dimples". I'll let you know what the dealer says when I pick it up next week.
Bob


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## Armand_C (Feb 24, 2005)

Thanks to this forum I just looked at mine yesterday. It is new and we have not used it yet. Ours is only depressed in at the corners above the marker lights. Dang this informative forum!!! What happens if I just leave it there? Do you think it's a big deal if I leave it until the end of the next season? It's just that with our maiden voyage and spring just around the corner, I don't want my trailer in the shop for weeks or months. I want to use it as much as I can.


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

Hi
When I was at the RV show a few weeks ago I made it a point to look up at the roof. On the right side where the roof meets the fiberglass it looked like someone took a bat to it







. The salesman thought I was looking at the profile and I told him I was looking at the dent in the roof. His reply was they're all like that. I said so that makes it ok then he walked away







.

John


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## RLW7302 (Feb 27, 2005)

I just found this thread ... looks like it's been going on for a while.

We have a similar dimple in our 28FRLS. Found it on first day after we got home.







We notified the dealer, and had them look at it when we brought the camper in for some other warranty work. They told us that there was no structural integrity problems, and no leaks. They said it just appeared to be an issued from when Keystone rolled out the fiberglass.









From reading this thread, Keystone obviously has a bigger problem than my one unit. I'm going to call my dealer again, and point out this thread to them.


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## c_rad91 (Feb 18, 2005)

I talked to my dealer the other day. He is supposed to be getting me in touch with their factory rep to discuss this problem. Mine hasn't been built yet so hopefully they do something to prevent it from happening. I'll keep you posted.


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## Frisbee1969 (Feb 28, 2005)

Now this has got me wondering if we are all crazy. I inspected mine after reading this thread. Yes, it does appear that there is some deformity going on there just above the running lights. There also appears to be somewhat of a hump between the dimples. Along the edge of the top at the dimples, there is a large glob of sealer on both sides. It looks to me as if the dealer did some inspecting of this area. The sealant job just doesn't look "factory" to me. Then again, the "hump" looks sort of natural. As if it was designed that way and the dimples are just a by product of raising the center. A lipstck camera would tell volumes as to the distortion that occurs in flat plate surfaces while being forced against the wind.

Hey, ever seen camera shots from the mast of a helicopter looking down the rotor blade? The gyrations a rotor blade makes while rotating would scare the life out of anyone seeing it, let alone anyone flying in one. I fly them and have for 15 years. I understand that the structural integrity is sound, yet flexible enough to take tons of pressure. There is strength in flexibility. Perhaps this flaw in our campers is really no flaw at all, but an aerodynamic design incorporated into a flexible area. Oh, I'm calling my dealer and I will even drag it down there for him to see it, but I have a feeling that there is an answer already waiting for me. I am still not ruling out though, that there is something engineered here that we consumers are missing out on. I have my fingers crossed!


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## Campfire Squad (Nov 15, 2004)

Well, here is an update! My dealer sent me these pictures of the nose cap actually opened up so you can see what is underneath, click here.

Look at pictures nose_cap_1 - nose_cap_10. There is a wood strip approx 4"-5" wide along the outside edge, underneath of that is alluminum framework. Supposedly the wood strip is ontop of the framework to form a more uniform curve. There is a cross beam that you can see just above the wires for the marker light. It does appear that there should be a slight step all the way across as the plywood underneath of the roof is slightly higher than the wood strips along the edge. If you look at the pictures closely it appears that the insulation is sticking out further than the wood strips along the edge. I wonder if the dimples that we are seeing is a result of the insulation actually pushing out on the nose cap and when they fasten the cap down along the edges on the wood strips it makes it appear as if it is an indentation when actually it is the sections that are not fastened down protruding out?

The dealer told me that the only thing that looked out of the ordinary was the step down from the plywood to the wood strips. They wanted to make this even but this would make a larger gap to cover with the corner piece from the top of the side wall to the the nose piece. At the most this should only result in a drop of around 1/2".

Sorry for rambling but I tried to explain what was told to me as best as I could. I hope this helps. After seeing the pictures I really don't think that there is a real problem here. What does everyone else think.

David


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Yeah, David, I would tend to agree with you. What is the manufacturer date of your's? Also, your's had the big glob didn't it? Mind doesn't. Believe mine was made in Apr04. Thanks for the great pictures! Those help a lot in understanding this problem. Thanks!


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

So the edges havce an extra layer of 1/4" plywood to help pr3event the seams from separating. That's good news. The bad news is there's nothing to support the skin in tha area above and between the marker lights except insulation - that's bad. That is the area that is warped into a large depression on my nose cap. Hopefully it won't develop into a split seam, but it is ugly as all get out. Sort of reminds me of a boxer with a broken nose - you just can't help being drawn to looking at it.

Glenn


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## Campfire Squad (Nov 15, 2004)

Vdub,
I don't know what the manufacture date of mine is and I haven't picked it up from the dealer yet so I can't look. Mine did have the glob on each side.

One interesting thing that I forgot to put in last night was the roof warranty. The rubber roof has a wonderfull ten year warranty right? However, this warranty is only valid if the roof is inspected, serviced, and documented yearly by a certified technician. Has anyone else heard of this? I really do not want to have to haul the camper to the dealer every year and pay to have them do something that I can do in my own driveway!!

David.


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## Armand_C (Feb 24, 2005)

I also just got back from the dealer. They have the new skin and decal on order. They will need 5 hours to take the old skin off and support it before putting in the new one. Just curious if anyone has had the work done and been satisfied with the work? Thanks


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## c_rad91 (Feb 18, 2005)

OK...We went to do the PDI on our new 29 FBHS this afternoon (build date 3/22/05) and guess what!!! A dimple on the left side above the running light. Right after we ordered I talked to the dealer, who in turn talked to the factory rep, who in turn came up with a bunch of eyewash about not being careful enough while rolling the fiberglass for the nosecap causing the dimples blah blah blah. It sounded like dung but I was asssured the problem was fixed and ours would be dimple free. I told the service manager about it and he offered the best explanation I've heard to date. He's been in the business for almost 25 years. He thinks that the jig they use to cut the material for the sides is worn out causing a flat spot on top of the sides. When the nosecap is secured down with the screws it's being pulled down to the contour of the wall causing the deformation. Ours doesn't have the goop on that seam like I've seen in some of the pictures but they had a 29 FRKS on the lot that did. We've made note of it and hopefully there won't be any problems. They're bringing it by the house tomorrow as I haven't got my TV yet. We're picking the mighty Dodge up at the end of the April. This should give us a chance to play with it and get it all packed up for the real deal.


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## jgheesling (Sep 28, 2004)

I took mine in the shop on March 1st Outback would not approve replacing the front panel even with the crack. The dealer Fiberglassed over the crack and repainted the area. Got it back on March 25th (25 days) Looked OK but when I went to raise the front landing gear the dealer had bent the left jack and the drop leg would not go into the jack section. Had to wait extra 3 hours to get that repaired. I notice others have gotten the panel replaced with no crack, can't figure the logic of Outback but I TELLLLL everyone I see.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

There is unquestionably a problem in this area and I can understand where Keystone would rather fix it to "serviceable" rather than "new", even tho "serviceable" is not exactly what you paid for when you bought the rig. But, I wonder if they aren't making some design changes? Seems to me they would be looking real close at that area, yet I have heard no reports of such. Maybe some of the folks who are getting new '05's in could let us know what they are seeing.

I guess we know that 3/22/05 didn't see any changes.


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## Capsnap (Jun 28, 2005)

I have an 05 30FRKS. I have the globs, the dimples, and as an added bonus, a 12" section of the seam that has separated and popped up. I've only had the unit a few months and its only been on one short trip. The problem was not there after the trip, I would have noticed it when I washed it. This occured while in storage.

I'll be calling my dealer today to see what they can do.

Mike


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## rtavi (Jul 8, 2005)

What is the current status of this problem?







I have a 2006 28frls bought in July there seems to be a tiny dip on either side but no glob of sealer and dip is not pronounced as in picture. Did Keystone fix this problem during assembly of the O6 models or just let it continue??


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## Skipper (Aug 23, 2005)

After reading this thread we checked the roof on our brand new Sidney 30 FRKS/05 and it appears that we may have a problem. Husband says the rubber roof liner (not sure if this is the right term) appears to be very loose and we also have dimples behind running lights and also a dimple about 1 foot back from the AC (if you step there it sinks right in). We have the big strip of caulking near the running lights (completely across the unit) with another huge gob of caulking on the right hand side (as you are standing on the roof facing forward) right near the right running light. I will be calling the dealer tomorrow, we are furious that they are still selling these 5th wheels (we bought on July 29/05) so they are obviously aware of this problem when they sold us ours.
I should have smelled a rat when we went to register our trailer and the clerk said that our brand new unit had already had been registered in someone elses name. The registry clerk called the dealer and he gave her some lame story about the salesman pulling the wrong card when filling out the sales receipt as there were 2 units sold the same day. I believe that the unit had been sold to someone and after researching the unit the new owner probably went back to the dealer and insisted that they refund his money. Two weeks later the only other outback 30 frks was still on the lot and obviously not sold the same day.

I will get to the bottom of this, tomorrow I plan on going and paying to search the title at the registry office and if I can get my hands on the previous owners name will call them and ask what really happened. If it is as I suspect and they intentionally misrepresented the unit as being new and in pristine shape they had better duck when they see me coming because we won't be happy campers.

I have 5 pictures of the roof/caulking etc. but am not sure how to post them or I could email them to anyone who is interested, just let me know our email addy is [email protected]


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## rtavi (Jul 8, 2005)

Anyone know where this situstion stands today almost a year after first post?


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## photosal (Nov 16, 2004)

We have gone round and round with our dealer and keystone. We did the evaluation thing at the dealer and had photos sent to keystone.

The answer from KEYSTONE is that it is a cosmetic situation and they will not pay the dealer to fix it, BUT if I want to bring it to Elkheart they will fix it. I told them that I live in up-state NY and would they Pay milage and time for me to tow it to the plant. I dont think I have to give you their ans.

I do have some threads on this forum if you want to search it out. I did get one good feed back , take them to small clames court this person said he won by default. That is my next step
Sal
photosal


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

Interesting!







From all the post here, the sagging nose seems to be more common on the earlier Sydney fivers. Did Keystone resolve that issue on later units? Mine is a '07 manufactured in DEC '06. It seems to be developing a small dipple just above each of the clearance/running ights. Should I be concerned?







Thanks. PCM


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## aircare (Mar 30, 2007)

not much need to be concerned,not much being done to correct it.
just like my tires!!


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## sassy (Oct 23, 2008)

photosal said:


> We have gone round and round with our dealer and keystone. We did the evaluation thing at the dealer and had photos sent to keystone.
> 
> The answer from KEYSTONE is that it is a cosmetic situation and they will not pay the dealer to fix it, BUT if I want to bring it to Elkheart they will fix it. I told them that I live in up-state NY and would they Pay milage and time for me to tow it to the plant. I dont think I have to give you their ans.
> 
> ...




*Who did they take to small claims court? the dealer, or keystone?*


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