# Did I Get A Lemon?



## revcorey (Aug 30, 2005)

Well, we just took delivery of our new Outback Fifth-wheel this past Wednesday and had it out through the weekend. I took it back to the dealer this morning with a list of problems that made me want to hook back up to my '96 Legacy Excel that was sitting there on the lot and never look back. We love many aspects of the new Outback, but are EXTREMELY frustrated to say the least.

Here is the list of problems discovered in one weekend of camping:

1) It started to rain Friday morning and when we went back into the bedroom, water was runninig in from around one of the trim boards on the seam near the head of the bed. It was coming in at a fairly fast rate and we had to lay on the bed with a towel for two hours soaking up the water before it could run down the wall and do any significant damage. We got a tarp up on the roof which stopped the lead. When the rain finally subsided I climed up on the rook and it was obvious what the problem was: the roof was bowed and bulging in the middle and it had pulled the caulked seem completely apart in two spots.

2) The show was leaking on two sides around the base. During the shower and for several minutes thereafter water continued to seep out and onto the floor. I can only imagine the damage that could be happening underneath the shower itself.

3) Water heater just stopped working on electric. When I switched it to gas, it took four attempts at starting (with a 30 second break between each) before it actually fired and stayed on. On two occasion I also found the DSI fault light on and had the restart it each time.

4) The water pump was excessively loud and at the end of the cycle caused the entire kitchen area to vibrate loudly and violently.

5) Door seems to be binding up near the bottom and knob side and needed to be "slammed" hard to get it to stay latched.

6) Rear driver side stabilizer jack missing the pin and holds the drive bolt in place so that jack can be raised back up.

7) When you turn on the cold tap it is cold at first but as soon as the water pump kicks in the water gets incredibly hot for approximately 4 or 5 seconds and then goes back to cold.

8) The little piece that holds the accordion door between the living room and the bedroom shut was completely missing.

Additionallly, there are several places where the wallpaper border are lifting up and several trim pieces thhat are loose. I also had to pound in the staples that were securing the carpet to the step up into the bedroom. They were all sticking out maybe a 1/16th of an inch and if you stepped on them just right they poked into your foot.

Anyway, I was not a "happy camper" when I showed up at my dealer's door this morning. They said they would have everything fixed by the end of the week. I am anxious to see how they make the repair to the roof. That is was scares me the most.

It just seems that a brand new camper should not have this many issues. A few small issues I can understand, but these seem rather major and inexcusable. I will keep all posted on how things turn out at the dealer.

In the meantime, if anyone has had any similar problems (I have read the threads on the roof issues) I would love to hear from you on how your dealer ended up resloving them.

We fell in love with the Outback Sydney Edition as soon as we saw it...but this past weekend I would have given anything to have my old unit back. I was even looking with envy at my parents' 20 year old travel trailer--they stayed dry and everything was working fine!

Corey


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

That's horrible news...please keep us posted on how your dealer (and possbily Keystone) deal with these issues.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

It is hard to read about your troubles and not feel bad. I think that you or the dealer should have caught a few of the items during the PDI. Did anyone inspect the roof?

Most of the issues will be fixed quickly by the dealer but I am confused by the hot water in the cold side. Which sink was it in??

Try to make lemon aid from those lemons and let us know how the dealer does.


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## ARzark (Aug 9, 2005)

revcorey,

I hope your dealer comes through for you and everything is corrected to your satisfaction. There's always the little annoying things that go wrong... but leaks? 
Come on Keystone...

Keep us all posted on your progress. Hopefully you will be a happy camper









Good luck!


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

Welcome revcorey to the group
Sorry to hear of the problems you are having
let us know how you make out from your dealer.

Don


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Sorry about the troubles you are having. Hopefully your dealer will come thru and make things right. I can understand your frustration at having problems with a brand new product.

I wonder if a cold water line is right next to a hot water line or next to the water heater?

Mike


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## larry (Oct 19, 2004)

Sorry about all the issues on your new Sydney. We also had some issues with our 
new 2005 30 RLS Sydney ( some not resolved but scheduled after camping season)

We have water stains on the ceiling tile section around the air conditioner. A worker at Keystone forgot to tighten the bolts connecting the unit to the roof,
First rain and problems. shy

All our issues are either completed or promised.

Our dealer told us they are a little disappointed with the Sydney quality due to the
strong demand and therefore rush assembly.

Be very persistant with your dealer. YOU have rights.

shy


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## 1stTimeAround (Sep 22, 2004)

I don't know if you bought a lemon, but I certainly know how you feel!!

Keep the pressure on your dealer, get EVERYTHING in writing and monitor the repaired areas closely. Ask them to take pictures so you can have them for your records of the repairs and/or damages.

I know that extended warranty's are not popular by many on this site, however I purchased one with my camper and after the recent spring problems I've had and some of the other things that folks have mentioned on here, I'm glad I bought it. At this point, I haven't used it, but there is a piece of mind there about not worrying if something does go wrong.

Jason


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## revcorey (Aug 30, 2005)

Thanks for everyone's support! I would agree that some of these things should have been "caught" before I ever left the dealer's lot. We were told that they do a very thorough check of everything while preparing it for delivery and, being the trusting soul that I am, believed them. I should have gone through things myself but was in a bit of a hurry and was actually working with an employee who admitted to me that he had "only been on the job three weeks." Since we have been camping for many years with fifth-wheels, we were fairly comfortable with things and didn't push like we obviously should have.

As for the roof, yes, I did climb up and look before leaving the dealer because of all that I'd read on here. At that point it looked fine. No obvious bowing and the caulk seal was fine. I would imagine it happened at some point while I was towing it back home and then to the State Park where we camped.

At any rate, I called back after I dropped off the camper yesterday and asked to speak to the owner himself, who was most understanding and apologetic. I told him about this forum and he said he was going to get on this website with his technician who was already on the phone with Keystone about my roof.

I will keep everyone posted and am hoping for a positive outcome. We have another short trip planned for this coming weekend which will hopefully be a lot smoother and more enjoyable!

Corey


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Glad to see it is heading on a positive note. Some dealers like this forum, some don t. It sounds like he is going to make every effort to fix it.

John


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Sounds like a good dealer, glad it's working out.

Mike


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## j1mfrog (Jun 6, 2004)

I was a little disallusioned after I bought mine and needed a lot of repairs. I stuck with it and almost 2 years later, I'm still happy I have it.

The dealer method of fixing roof leaks as explained to me by my dealer.

1. Soap up the whole roof.
2. Pressurize the cabin by attaching a fan to one of the roof vents and blowing in.
3. The bubbles show the leaks.
4. The leaks are repaired with a patch process very similar to patching a tire.

You couls probably do this yourself on a unit out of warranty if you were up to it.


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## RCColby (Oct 12, 2004)

I had many similar problems with my new 5er except for the roof leak last fall. All were eventually taken care of by the dealer. 
The Hot/cold water problem sounds like the winter hot water tank bypass is open.
Hope all goes well with the repairs and keep us posted.
Bob


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Maybe it's just me, but I get this sick feeling every time I see one of these threads. Why is it that so many of us have had problems with our Outbacks? I personally havent had any, but just bought my second one and haven't had it out yet.....but so many of the other Outbackers have.

Please, someone, reassure me, that I shouldn't have to worry that every time I take mine out, something is bound to happen. Or are all TTs and 5ers pretty much the same, that all have problems?







I'm still a rookie RVer and don't like to read all these "horror" stories of things going wrong.

Mark


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## MAYZ83 (Mar 24, 2005)

Thats not any fun. We have had several problems with our 05 as well. The door sticking drove me crazy. I think it may be fixed after the second trip back to the dealer. They ground off a piece of the stopper on the bottom of the door. This is what eventually fixed the problem. It was also misaligned, though, to begin with. Also, we have taken it back twice because trim falls off. Waiting to see if it comes off again. Hopefully they fix it with staples not nails. Nails dont last. We too have had several other problems, but I hope they are about ironed out because we love our camper.







Hang in there!


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## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Mark,
There are 1400+ members on this forum of which probably half are active. So of 700 Outbacks, there has to be some issues. I personally haven't thought to much about putting a thread on the firum that says "Everything is working great on my Outback and I've only had one issue requiring the dealer in the first year". But I could if it would make sense.

Don't misunderstand me, the forum is here so people can share their problems as well as god experiences but the unlucky few who've experienced problems (and I don't mean to discount their situation - it shouldn't happen) will be the most visible here on the forum.

We had a poll asking about satisfaction of Outbacks and it was very positive.

REVCORY,
Sorry to hear that you are one of the few who DO have some serious issues. It sounds like the dealer is at least responsive - and hopefully effective. I'd ask for the dealer to explain everything he did and HOW it was done. Take a couple of pictures of the repair in case something changes later. Good luck.

BBB


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

BBB,

Thanks, I did the numbers once, too......figured there were several thousand Outback owners, some of which landed here on Outbackers and only a few (some say too many) who've had issues, and I know deep down that there are going to be those issues. And, fortunately, so far, I've not been one _with_ issues....knock on wood....

But, I'm not the handiest person with tools







and have no nohow to fix problems when it comes to mechanical things---(remember, I'm a therapist and only work on issues inside the head).

But one thing for sure, I love my Outback and feel blessed every time I walk into it. And I know I'm making memories for the little gks.

Guess I just need some reassuring once in a while.

And I know Outbackers.com is the place for it.









Mark


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

We never know here if we will need a therapist







Ya know, for that mod problem we all have. Joint therapy or is it doing a mod is therapeutic. One or the other.

John


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## 1stTimeAround (Sep 22, 2004)

Oh, I see, picking on the unfortunate few are ya'!

Well, despite the minor, life threatening issues I've had. I still love my Outback (with some trepidation) and am glad I bought it. Just wish I hadn't paid so much for it so I could go get that Cougar 304BHS!!!

Jason


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## Skipper (Aug 23, 2005)

Hi Corey,
I feel for you. We also have a few issues with our Sydney FRK 30/ 05 unit which is barely a month old.

With regard to the water heater, we have never tried ours on electric yet but it always takes the 4 attempts before it ignites while on gas, that is to say when we turn on the water heater I hear it attempt 3 times to turn on but all 3 times it turns off I then switch the button off and wait a few minutes then go back and try again, usually it remains fired after the fourth attempt, weird not really sure what's up.
We also have the wallpaper issue but I can live with that, I hate the tempermental pipes in the toilet that clog all the time, seems to be a bit of a design failure.

It appears we may have the dreaded roof problem, we went in to see the dealer yesterday to show him the pictures and check out the roof of a same model unit still for sale on the lot. They said that they have never heard of any problems with the Outback roof and have sold 50-60 units this year alone with no complaints, more or less trying to make us feel that if there is a problem then it was an isolated incident at which time we told them that the unit presently on the lot has the exact same problem (what are the chances of that!) if they would like to just climb up the ladder and have a quick look see, they could see what we are talking about - nobody took us up on the offer.

We will probably have to bring the unit in to the service dept after they have heard back from Outback (they are emailing them our pics) and proceed from there, I'm pretty disgusted with the thought that I might have to have a repair of this magnitude done on a brand new trailer and can't figure out why our trailer might have this problem if by the sound of it Outback has been aware of this problem since 04 (looking at the previous messages) afterall our unit shows that it was manufactured Feb-05 wouldn't they have fixed or addressed this problem!

In any case I'm thinking that I might want to trade it in and avoid any future headaches with the Outback, when I asked the salesman about trading over to a Challenger he had in the showroom he pussyfooted and fast talked around in a circle forever talking about us getting the possible roof problem fixed first etc etc. Really I got the distinct impression that he didn't want to even take it back on trade which is appalling when you think that it is in the exact same condition we bought it from him only 3 1/2 weeks ago, he denies that they don't want it back on trade but after 2 days I still can't get a firm trade in amount quoted to me, he has bandied about a hypothetical amount of $28,000 (we paid $31,900.00 canadian) against a $46,000. Challenger but won't commit to that, says he would have to run it by his manager. He stands to make $16,000 for the upgrade but after 2 days he still hasn't been able to walk that 100 feet to the managers office and commit, when was the last time you ran into that from a salesman - it pretty much speaks for itself!

Hopefully Outback will get back to the service dept in a timely manner after they have seen our pics and we will be able to proceed one way or the other. I know how you feel Corey, when I see our old 36ft 89 Prairie Schooner which is still sitting in our backyard, I wonder if I made the right purchase. I mean we love the interior floorplan and aesthetics in the Outback but a brand new trailer should not come with this many headaches

Skipper


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

Hang in there folks. New trailers have issues too. Once they are all worked out by the dealer/Keystone, you'll be a much happier camper.

I had my share of problems when I bought mine, but once they were worked out...camping bliss.

Stay the course, and welcome to OUTBACKERS!


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## dsymington (Jul 15, 2005)

I am new to this site and don't post but this one I think is worth a comment. I have been camping in tents and trailers since I was a a baby. I had to think about it but I have been through 7 trailers that I can remember.

61 17 Foot Citation (Parents)
73 23 Kountry Air (Parents)
82 Starcarft Pop Up (Mine)
96 Coleman Rio Grande (Mine)
99 Terry Ultralite (Mine)
03 Outback 28 BHS (Mine) Destroyed in a Hurricane after owning it for 6 weeks
04 Outback 28 BHS Present Trailer

Of these ones this Outback has been by far the best in term of Ouality, Fit and Finish. Perfect no, but far better than all but the 03 outback which I only used twice so I did not have it long enough to judge. Also ones of the best dealers I have dealt with.

I think so many of the problems are not brand sepcfic but problems with an Industry that has just gone through a period of growth and is still set up in much the same way it was years ago. I think back to trips I took with my Mom and Dad when blowouts and broken springs were really common place. For perspective slide over to the Airstream Fourm and see that many of the same problems occur at a much higher price tag.

I think we need to push the manufactuers to a higher standard and it is coming but it is slow.

Regards

DSymington


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## L & L (Sep 1, 2005)

revcorey said:


> Well, we just took delivery of our new Outback Fifth-wheel this past Wednesday and had it out through the weekend. I took it back to the dealer this morning with a list of problems that made me want to hook back up to my '96 Legacy Excel that was sitting there on the lot and never look back. We love many aspects of the new Outback, but are EXTREMELY frustrated to say the least.
> 
> Here is the list of problems discovered in one weekend of camping:
> 
> ...


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## bronzestar (Aug 21, 2005)

larry said:


> Sorry about all the issues on your new Sydney. We also had some issues with our
> new 2005 30 RLS Sydney ( some not resolved but scheduled after camping season)
> 
> We have water stains on the ceiling tile section around the air conditioner. A worker at Keystone forgot to tighten the bolts connecting the unit to the roof,
> ...


I just took delivery on a new Sydney 30RLS also. Live in NY, Picked it up in IN. Stoped half way home to try it out and wound up havingm to crank the slider in the following morning. I spend a few ours troubleshooting the slider, and found that there in a short in the motor (continuity between the two wire leads to the motor). There is a list of other small items but nothing too major except for an inoperable slide.

I saved over $7K, by making this trip, but now have to deal with contacting the "local" dealer (50 miles away) to arrange repairs.


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2006)

revcorey said:


> Well, we just took delivery of our new Outback Fifth-wheel this past Wednesday and had it out through the weekend. I took it back to the dealer this morning with a list of problems that made me want to hook back up to my '96 Legacy Excel that was sitting there on the lot and never look back. We love many aspects of the new Outback, but are EXTREMELY frustrated to say the least.
> 
> Here is the list of problems discovered in one weekend of camping:
> 
> ...


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## ee4308 (Aug 23, 2005)

L&L and jlitlmyra,

So.......what point are yall trying to make?







Out of 3 post between both of you, not a word posted, just brought up Corey's original post (sorry about your problems Corey and I hope they have been taken care of). Makes one wonder what brand of TT they represent.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

ee4308 said:


> L&L and jlitlmyra,
> 
> So.......what point are yall trying to make?
> 
> ...


Could just be newbies that are still figuring out how to post.


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## ee4308 (Aug 23, 2005)

CamperAndy,

It could be, I suppose, but both joined the first of September and haven't posted anything.


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## fishingmarlin (Nov 27, 2005)

HOLY COW!! I know that would make me furious to buy something brand new and have so many issues. Not only that but water leakage is the worst thing that can happen to any TT, Camper, or 5th wheel.

All in all we have not had any problems but I have noticed rust on the frame of the trailer which is odd for a 2005 and we are the first owners. I also noticed rust on the lug nuts and stabilizer bars. I am going to inspect all this a little more when the weather gets better to see if any of it is worse than just cosmetic.


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## outback_travelers (Jan 23, 2006)

revcorey said:


> Well, we just took delivery of our new Outback Fifth-wheel this past Wednesday and had it out through the weekend. I took it back to the dealer this morning with a list of problems that made me want to hook back up to my '96 Legacy Excel that was sitting there on the lot and never look back. We love many aspects of the new Outback, but are EXTREMELY frustrated to say the least.
> 
> Here is the list of problems discovered in one weekend of camping:
> 
> ...


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

sgalady said:


> Hi, Corey!
> I wonder if I got a lemon, too. I bought an 06 Outback 27RSDS, last of October, and have used it twice. Noticed what I thought was a water leak, on our 5-day Christmas trip. Went out, yesterday, to check for leaks, and it had been raining, here, in S. GA. Seems that it had leaked around EVERY door, window, exterior panel (waterheater, outside campstove/sink, access space, heater, etc.)!
> Water was EVERYWHERE! Called the dealership and they said to bring it in, immediately, to get it out of the weather, which I did. It was soaking wet, inside, carpet, water standing on countertops, vinyl, etc. Left it inside dealership workshop, and they are supposed to get back to me, Monday. Said they would have to go thru mfr. to make warranty good, and may need to repair/replace unit. Repair is not acceptable, as I'm sure there's mold, everywhere, and I have asthma and mold sensitivities. He admitted there had been about FIVE-THOUSAND complaints, that apparently a disgruntled employee at the factory did not caulk/seal the units properly, and they were turning up, everywhere now. I LOVE my Outback, though hooking up is a problem (back problems). May upgrade to a 5th wheel, but would have to buy a new, bigger truck. Use a GMC Sierra 1500 extended cab 5.3 V8 295 HP with heavy-duty towing package, and it does okay, so far, even in the mountains.
> I asked about the shower on mine, as it wasn't caulked, and they assured me that the shower stall had an extension that ran down below the tub to prevent leaks. I'm not too hep on that one, and not sure, but we took short showers, anyway.
> ...


Sorry to hear of your problems...

It may be wise to start a new thread on this incident. That way it can be tracked as an independent problem.

Your post is also very difficult to read. You may want to consider using hard returns or bullet points.

Now, I have to ask....How did you break your thumb installing the rear supports???Ouch????









Also, never heard of the doors locking themselves.

Good Luck and keeep us posted!

Tim


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## shake1969 (Sep 21, 2004)

Hmmm.


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## srlaws (Mar 14, 2005)

Sorry to hear about all the problems youâ€™re having with your camper. We went through somewhat the same situation with ours and just got it back from the dealer. It took about five months because of problems getting the right parts from Keystone, but they finally got it mostly right. There were many times I wished I had our original camper back, but just pulling it back home erased a lot of the â€œill willâ€ or â€œsour grapesâ€ I was having. We really love the layout of our camper and hope everything will be okay now. When we start camping again this spring weâ€™ll be able to tell if everything is good to go. The dealer really did a great job sealing both ends of our camper where it leaked. They used a rubber tape about 4â€ wide across the seams on both ends of the camper instead of the silicon bead like they use from Keystone. Looks like a much better setup. Good luck and I hope everything works out for you.

Steve


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Guys this is a double post from Darlene (actually triple) so please do not answer on this thread. Go to the new one she started

Problem post.


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

CamperAndy said:


> Guys this is a double post from Darlene (actually triple) so please do not answer on this thread. Go to the new one she started
> 
> Problem post.
> [snapback]81048[/snapback]​


Hi, ANDY!!
Thanks for trying to keep me straight!! I need all the help I can use, at this time!
Darlene action


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

Hi,
Just wanted to let you know that I have been thinking about the problems with our new OBs. I'm satisfied that the dealer is going to make mine good, due to the fact that that everything's basically waterproof (insulation, siding, flooring, etc). 
Where I live, in Thomasville, GA, is the home of Stewart Lodges, and they, like the camper businesses, are mass-producing for FEMA, still. The Stewart Lodges has opened a SECOND full-time plant, here, and are bringing them off-the-line at warp speed







, due to contract. 
Because of this, I wonder if we got caught in the "crunch" following Katrina. You know, good products or not, people working 12 hr. shifts 6 days/week can easily burn out.







So, I wouldn't worry, that much. 
According to the Keystone representative I talked to, they DO stand behind their warranty 100%, and I think we'll both be satisfied with the outcome of our purchase!!
Best of luck!
Darlene action


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