# Winterizing "by-Pass Valve" Question



## hoodscoop (Mar 29, 2012)

Last year I did my first witerization by blowing out the system and pouring RV anti-freeze down each drain. Almost worked perfect but a little water stayed in the toilet valve and cracked it. Had to replace it in spring. This year I am going to try putting anti-freeze in the water holding tank and pumping it through the entire system. So here's the question.

I have drained everything down including removing the water heater enode rod. I looked behind the water heater by removing a panel and see only one, "I believe by-pass" valve. All by-pass systems I have seen my whole life require two valves. One valve for the "in" line and one for the "out" line. So do you think it is a by-pass valve and shouldn't there be two?

Wa-da-ya think?


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## Camping Fan (Dec 18, 2005)

There is just one by-pass valve at the hot water tank. You should check the water pump for a winterizing bypass valve too. If your trailer has one, there should be a short hose or tubing section at the bypass valve that you can put directly into a jug of antifreeze and then pump it through the system. If you do that, you can easily winterize all the lines with 2-3 gallons of antifreeze. If you dump the antifreeze into the fresh water tank, it will probably take several gallons to have a high enough level in the tank to pump it through the lines.


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## Red Beard (Feb 13, 2010)

Larry, 
Well worth it to get one of the kits and install a hose in-line that you can suck anti-freeze right out of the jug. 
I open the valve insert hose in jug turn on pump open the farthest faucet run till the pink stuff comes out then work my way around to all the faucets INCLUDING the outdoor sink, shower and toilet.
Then pour some down the drains, fresh water tank and back water tank. Takes me about 2-3 gallons of anti-freeze and 10 minuets to winterize the water system. 
It will take you about 15 minutes to 30 minutes to install the valve and hose-depending on the access to the pipes. Once and done install. I built my kit from some supplies I picked up at Lowes. Since I built it myself and I installed the bypass hose so that it is just the right length and stays neatly coiled under the couch. I just have to pull it out open insert in jug and away I go. 
BTW- when I assembled my by-pass valve I bought spare pipe, connectors and some fittings to keep on hand in case something happens. I keep the spares stored under the couch they don't take up any room and I have peace of mind that I prepared if something happens. 
Come spring I mix up water and Clorox in the jugs that had the pink stuff in them (washed and rinsed out of course) run that through the system and let it sit and then flush the system with clean water. Fresh water tank gets filled and treated too. My system is sterilized and safe to use, I usually do this at least 1-2 times during the summer to keep the nasty bacteria out. BTW- do NOT use the splashless Clorox get the real stuff no additives. Apparently, splashless has an additive in it and can be difficult to rinse out. 
Although; this year I may use hydrogen peroxide, instead of Clorox, not so smelly and easier on the system. 
Good luck, 
Joe


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## Jewellfamily (Sep 25, 2010)

There is one bypass valve, but it works like the 2 or 3 valve systems you are used to. The single valve is actually a Tee valve, so when it opens one way it closes the other and acts like 2 valves. The hot water heater also has a one way check valve on the outlet so that acts like the 3rd valve when you close the tee valve to the hot water heater.

Agree on istalling a winterizing kit for pumping antifreeze. They only run 15 or 20 bucks and are a tee valve that you install. Basically you unscrew the water inlet line to the water pump, screw the tee valve to the water pump and then screw the water inlet line back to the tee valve. Doesnt take much at all to install one and makes pulling antifreeze into the system a piece of cake.

There are several people on the forum that winterize different ways (blow out or pump antifreeze). Either way is good but if you blow out, you need to be sure you get it all. I use antifreeze. 3 gallons is about 10 bucks at Walmart and when the pink stuff comes out at the faucet you know for sure. I pull my low point drains and drain water, recap them, and start at the farthest point from the water pump and work your way towards it one point at a time (sinks, tub, toilet...). Then pour the remainder of the antifreeze down each drain to fill the traps.


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## hoodscoop (Mar 29, 2012)

Thanks guys, that is exactly what I needed. My water pump is very accessible, how'd that happen, under a water pump cover at the rear of the trailer. I will remove the cover to check for an existing tee first, as I am the second owner. If one does not exist, I will go to the local RV center or Home Depot and get what I need. Sounds pretty simple. The "one way valve" you mentioned on the water heater would explain only having the single shut-off valve. Looks like I'm on my way. Thanks for the in-depth details. Larry


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## Jewellfamily (Sep 25, 2010)

hoodscoop said:


> Thanks guys, that is exactly what I needed. My water pump is very accessible, how'd that happen, under a water pump cover at the rear of the trailer. I will remove the cover to check for an existing tee first, as I am the second owner. If one does not exist, I will go to the local RV center or Home Depot and get what I need. Sounds pretty simple. The "one way valve" you mentioned on the water heater would explain only having the single shut-off valve. Looks like I'm on my way. Thanks for the in-depth details. Larry


Your RV store should sell a kit with everything you need.


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## hoodscoop (Mar 29, 2012)

Just as I felt fat, dump, and happy, I got confused again. I took the cover off. The "city hookup" on the outside goes directly, picture attached, into the water pump. The, what I believe to be the "out" line from the water pump, goes into the underside of the TT. First, this would suggest that when I am hooked up to a campsite water hookup, as I always have been to date, the water flows through the water pump. Can it do that without the pump turning? I don't understand that. Secondly, if the "city hookup" side is the intake side of the pump, how do it get water pressure when I am solely drawing from the built-in water holding tank ...... the intake line does not even go to the water holding tank. I don't get it and I consider myself pretty experienced in this area. I have several water pumps and the intake line must be in the water. Kinda not difficult stuff. So what the hey am I missing.

Please be really discriptive in your explanation. Thanks.


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## Bill & Kate (Apr 28, 2012)

hoodscoop said:


> Just as I felt fat, dump, and happy, I got confused again. I took the cover off. The "city hookup" on the outside goes directly, picture attached, into the water pump. The, what I believe to be the "out" line from the water pump, goes into the underside of the TT. First, this would suggest that when I am hooked up to a campsite water hookup, as I always have been to date, the water flows through the water pump. Can it do that without the pump turning? I don't understand that. Secondly, if the "city hookup" side is the intake side of the pump, how do it get water pressure when I am solely drawing from the built-in water holding tank ...... the intake line does not even go to the water holding tank. I don't get it and I consider myself pretty experienced in this area. I have several water pumps and the intake line must be in the water. Kinda not difficult stuff. So what the hey am I missing.
> 
> Please be really discriptive in your explanation. Thanks.


I think you have it backwards. In your pictures, the water is pumped from left to right through thr pump. The outside water hookup goes to a tee on the discharge side of the pump. That way, when you are hooked up to city water, the water bypasses the pump and goes straight to your water system piping. There is a check valve internal to the pump that keeps the city water from backflowing through the pump into your fresh water tank.

When you are not hooked up to city water and run the pump, the pump sucks water from the tank through the hose on the left of your picture and pressurizes the system. A check valve at the city water connection (the black thing right at the intake in your picture) keeps the pressure from going out the city water intake.

If you want to install a winterization kit, it goes into the hose that is looped from the left side of the pump up and then down under the floor to your storage tank. Another way is to disconnect the hose from the elbow on the left side of the pump and install a short piece of hose on that elbow that you can run into a gallon jug of pink stuff. Another option would be to purchase a spare fitting with elbow identical to what is on the left side of the pump, and clamping a piece of hose to the new elbow/fitting. Then all you have to do is unscrew the exisiting fitting from the pump, and screw on the new one with the hose to the pink stuff.

I hope I am clear enough .....


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## Jewellfamily (Sep 25, 2010)

I went outside and looked at mine. Mine has the same sureflo pump and motor you have pictured here and is hooked up the same as yours. In your picture, the single line on the left is the suction side and goes into the underbelly to the fresh water tank. The tee on the right has the outside city fill hooked to it and is the output to the camper. I dont see any markings on the pump indicating flow direction. The quick check is put some water in the tank and kick the pump on. If it pumps water its right. The pump only pumps 1 direction. If youve already drained waste tanks and dont want to pump water to a sink, open your low point drains and kick the pump on and pump the water on the ground.


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## hoodscoop (Mar 29, 2012)

Bill & Kate said:


> Just as I felt fat, dump, and happy, I got confused again. I took the cover off. The "city hookup" on the outside goes directly, picture attached, into the water pump. The, what I believe to be the "out" line from the water pump, goes into the underside of the TT. First, this would suggest that when I am hooked up to a campsite water hookup, as I always have been to date, the water flows through the water pump. Can it do that without the pump turning? I don't understand that. Secondly, if the "city hookup" side is the intake side of the pump, how do it get water pressure when I am solely drawing from the built-in water holding tank ...... the intake line does not even go to the water holding tank. I don't get it and I consider myself pretty experienced in this area. I have several water pumps and the intake line must be in the water. Kinda not difficult stuff. So what the hey am I missing.
> 
> Please be really discriptive in your explanation. Thanks.


I think you have it backwards. In your pictures, the water is pumped from left to right through thr pump. The outside water hookup goes to a tee on the discharge side of the pump. That way, when you are hooked up to city water, the water bypasses the pump and goes straight to your water system piping. There is a check valve internal to the pump that keeps the city water from backflowing through the pump into your fresh water tank.

When you are not hooked up to city water and run the pump, the pump sucks water from the tank through the hose on the left of your picture and pressurizes the system. A check valve at the city water connection (the black thing right at the intake in your picture) keeps the pressure from going out the city water intake.

If you want to install a winterization kit, it goes into the hose that is looped from the left side of the pump up and then down under the floor to your storage tank. Another way is to disconnect the hose from the elbow on the left side of the pump and install a short piece of hose on that elbow that you can run into a gallon jug of pink stuff. Another option would be to purchase a spare fitting with elbow identical to what is on the left side of the pump, and clamping a piece of hose to the new elbow/fitting. Then all you have to do is unscrew the exisiting fitting from the pump, and screw on the new one with the hose to the pink stuff.

I hope I am clear enough .....
[/quote]

I am actually embarrassed ...... what an idiot! I did not see the tee at the right of the pump. I throught the line came in from the outside and made a 90 degree directly into the pump. As you might understand, this made no sense at all and gave me mental fatigue. After reading your, very well written explanations, I went out to the TT and pulled the lines out of the way, and there was the answer to all my questions. You probably could have just answered my post by saying, "go look at the right side of the pump, clown!

Anyway, I really like both your ideas of how to install a suction line. Installing a permenant tee in the loop is cool as is just disconnecting the elbow. Think I will go for the tee in the loop. Will get it today, hit 37 degrees last night. Thanks again guys. What a great site. Larry


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## southpaw1 (Oct 9, 2012)

Please help me understand this one valve at the water heater. How do you keep the antifreeze from going into the water heater when pumping it through the system? I installed a second valve on the hot output side of water heater.In my mind that will keep antifreeze from going into the water heater. Is this correct?
Thanks for all the good information.


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## Bill & Kate (Apr 28, 2012)

southpaw1 said:


> Please help me understand this one valve at the water heater. How do you keep the antifreeze from going into the water heater when pumping it through the system? I installed a second valve on the hot output side of water heater.In my mind that will keep antifreeze from going into the water heater. Is this correct?
> Thanks for all the good information.


The water heater should have a check valve on the outlet connection to keep the cold water (and in this case the antifreeze) from back feeding into the tank. The check valve may have been original equipment from the tank manufacture or installed by the trailer manufacturer when the tank and plumbing were installed.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Bill & Kate said:


> Please help me understand this one valve at the water heater. How do you keep the antifreeze from going into the water heater when pumping it through the system? I installed a second valve on the hot output side of water heater.In my mind that will keep antifreeze from going into the water heater. Is this correct?
> Thanks for all the good information.


The water heater should have a check valve on the outlet connection to keep the cold water (and in this case the antifreeze) from back feeding into the tank. The check valve may have been original equipment from the tank manufacture or installed by the trailer manufacturer when the tank and plumbing were installed.
[/quote]

The water heater outlet check valve has been know to fail, so a manual valve is not really a bad idea.


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## southpaw1 (Oct 9, 2012)

Bill & Kate said:


> Please help me understand this one valve at the water heater. How do you keep the antifreeze from going into the water heater when pumping it through the system? I installed a second valve on the hot output side of water heater.In my mind that will keep antifreeze from going into the water heater. Is this correct?
> Thanks for all the good information.


The water heater should have a check valve on the outlet connection to keep the cold water (and in this case the antifreeze) from back feeding into the tank. The check valve may have been original equipment from the tank manufacture or installed by the trailer manufacturer when the tank and plumbing were installed.
[/quote]
Thanks, now I see why they didn't put a valve on the hot water side. Would it hurt to have one there anyway?


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## Bill & Kate (Apr 28, 2012)

As CamperAndy said above, a manual valve to isolate the water heater isn't a bad idea at all. My best guess is that the only reason Outback uses the three-way valve and check valve rather than the traditional three valve arrangement is that it is cheaper in parts and labor to install ....


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## hoodscoop (Mar 29, 2012)

hoodscoop said:


> Just as I felt fat, dump, and happy, I got confused again. I took the cover off. The "city hookup" on the outside goes directly, picture attached, into the water pump. The, what I believe to be the "out" line from the water pump, goes into the underside of the TT. First, this would suggest that when I am hooked up to a campsite water hookup, as I always have been to date, the water flows through the water pump. Can it do that without the pump turning? I don't understand that. Secondly, if the "city hookup" side is the intake side of the pump, how do it get water pressure when I am solely drawing from the built-in water holding tank ...... the intake line does not even go to the water holding tank. I don't get it and I consider myself pretty experienced in this area. I have several water pumps and the intake line must be in the water. Kinda not difficult stuff. So what the hey am I missing.
> 
> Please be really discriptive in your explanation. Thanks.


I think you have it backwards. In your pictures, the water is pumped from left to right through thr pump. The outside water hookup goes to a tee on the discharge side of the pump. That way, when you are hooked up to city water, the water bypasses the pump and goes straight to your water system piping. There is a check valve internal to the pump that keeps the city water from backflowing through the pump into your fresh water tank.

When you are not hooked up to city water and run the pump, the pump sucks water from the tank through the hose on the left of your picture and pressurizes the system. A check valve at the city water connection (the black thing right at the intake in your picture) keeps the pressure from going out the city water intake.

If you want to install a winterization kit, it goes into the hose that is looped from the left side of the pump up and then down under the floor to your storage tank. Another way is to disconnect the hose from the elbow on the left side of the pump and install a short piece of hose on that elbow that you can run into a gallon jug of pink stuff. Another option would be to purchase a spare fitting with elbow identical to what is on the left side of the pump, and clamping a piece of hose to the new elbow/fitting. Then all you have to do is unscrew the exisiting fitting from the pump, and screw on the new one with the hose to the pink stuff.

I hope I am clear enough .....
[/quote]

I am actually embarrassed ...... what an idiot! I did not see the tee at the right of the pump. I throught the line came in from the outside and made a 90 degree directly into the pump. As you might understand, this made no sense at all and gave me mental fatigue. After reading your, very well written explanations, I went out to the TT and pulled the lines out of the way, and there was the answer to all my questions. You probably could have just answered my post by saying, "go look at the right side of the pump, clown!

Anyway, I really like both your ideas of how to install a suction line. Installing a permenant tee in the loop is cool as is just disconnecting the elbow. Think I will go for the tee in the loop. Will get it today, hit 37 degrees last night. Thanks again guys. What a great site. Larry
[/quote]

So, let me bring clousure to all my madness. Got a winterization kit today for the water pump. Installed it on the left or suction side, picture attached. Stuck the hose in the pink bottle and watched it come out all the water outlets. WOW!, how great it is when things come together. The single shut-off valve on the water heater also worked as planned, just like you'all mentioned. It does appear that the outlet must have a check valve so as not to allow water into the water heater via the discharge side.

Anyway, your advise was flawless and the kit did the job. The TT and now ready for hidernation as sad as that my be. Good news is that the DW will retire like myself over the winter and we will head West in Spring. Only time will tell what will happen next. Thanks again folks. Larry


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