# 2011 Rear Slideout Bed Without Supports



## roo camper

I am a bit puzzled over my new Outback rear bed slideout, how does it support it's own weight much less adding body weight? I see no telescoping supports or anything that would do the job. I am just looking for someone to make me feel more comfortable, the dealer said that it was supported by the overhead track.







I am just used to the support bars from the old camper


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## huntr70

Outback finally started to use the electric slide out in 2010 that several other builders have been using for a few years now.

The others seem to be fine and I haven't seen any on the new Outbacks come back for repair at all......

Steve


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## Scoutr2

That's great news. When we bought our Outback, we specifically steered away from the models with a rear bed slideout - that's what we were trying to get away from with our popup!

I didn't know that anyone made a trailer with an automatic rear slideout.

Mike


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## jasonrebecca

Aerolite & KZ Spree are two that I know of that have power rear bed slides as well.


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## ryan1980

i have to take mine back to the dealership the whole thing shifted to the drivers side about 1/2 inch the dealer said that the cables have a strech period and may need tuning


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## Justman

You know, I was looking at some pictures of some new ones and realized something was missing...the bed supports! If it's electric, I may just have to convince the wife that it's time for a new one. She did say a king size bed would be nice.


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## Justman

Ok, call me somewhat confused... I just went to the Lakeshore web site and looked, and sure enough the 2011 280RS they have pictured has rear slide supports. What gives?


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## huntr70

Justman said:


> Ok, call me somewhat confused... I just went to the Lakeshore web site and looked, and sure enough the 2011 280RS they have pictured has rear slide supports. What gives?


Old pictures??

They probably don't take pictures of every individual unit they run through the place......


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## Nathan

I think that OB were about the last of the rear slide trailers that were manual. When slid out the flange around the inside of the slide is held against the wall and supports the slide. When they are in, the flange around the outside is held against the wall and supports the slide. In between, the ceiling track provides some support. The rear wall and flange on the inside of the slide both seem to be more substantial on the new models....


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## svinc

Justman said:


> You know, I was looking at some pictures of some new ones and realized something was missing...the bed supports! If it's electric, I may just have to convince the wife that it's time for a new one. She did say a king size bed would be nice.


A king size bed WOULD be nice lol. I ordered my 250 RS because it was one of the few trailers with a 'king' bed, this is one reason I went with our 2008 Niagara. We did our PDI, took the trailer 4 hours away from the dealer and camped our first night in it. After a long day driving and setting up camper, unpacking, organizing etc I put my son to bed and crawl into bed, only to find my feet hanging off the edge of the bed!

It is NOT a king size bed like the brochure says. It is in between a queen and a king, wider than a queen but shorter than either. It is 72x74 a king bed is 76x80 and a queen is 60x80

If you are over 6' you probably want to look at a larger bed design, the dinette turns into 48x84 but who wants to sleep on their dinette all the time lol.


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## rdvholtwood

svinc said:


> You know, I was looking at some pictures of some new ones and realized something was missing...the bed supports! If it's electric, I may just have to convince the wife that it's time for a new one. She did say a king size bed would be nice.


A king size bed WOULD be nice lol. I ordered my 250 RS because it was one of the few trailers with a 'king' bed, this is one reason I went with our 2008 Niagara. We did our PDI, took the trailer 4 hours away from the dealer and camped our first night in it. After a long day driving and setting up camper, unpacking, organizing etc I put my son to bed and crawl into bed, only to find my feet hanging off the edge of the bed!

It is NOT a king size bed like the brochure says. It is in between a queen and a king, wider than a queen but shorter than either. It is 72x74 a king bed is 76x80 and a queen is 60x80

If you are over 6' you probably want to look at a larger bed design, the dinette turns into 48x84 but who wants to sleep on their dinette all the time lol.
[/quote]

When we first camped in our 250RS, we had the same problem. For whatever reason, I decided to measure the bed to see what the exact measurements were. What I found was that the bed was positioned incorrectly. In the 250RS, we sleep with our head towards the rear of the trailer - make sure your mattress is longer in that direction. Once we flipped it around, it was perfect for us.....


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## Nathan

svinc said:


> You know, I was looking at some pictures of some new ones and realized something was missing...the bed supports! If it's electric, I may just have to convince the wife that it's time for a new one. She did say a king size bed would be nice.


A king size bed WOULD be nice lol. I ordered my 250 RS because it was one of the few trailers with a 'king' bed, this is one reason I went with our 2008 Niagara. We did our PDI, took the trailer 4 hours away from the dealer and camped our first night in it. After a long day driving and setting up camper, unpacking, organizing etc I put my son to bed and crawl into bed, only to find my feet hanging off the edge of the bed!

It is NOT a king size bed like the brochure says. It is in between a queen and a king, wider than a queen but shorter than either. It is 72x74 a king bed is 76x80 and a queen is 60x80

If you are over 6' you probably want to look at a larger bed design, the dinette turns into 48x84 but who wants to sleep on their dinette all the time lol.
[/quote]
Sure, it's a RV King Bed. Just don't confuse that with the one at home!









I have seen big 5'ers with real beds and some that don't come with them can be changed out if you install your own mattress. So, maybe there is room on the slideout to put a bigger matress in there?


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## deanintemp

Mechanical designer here...give me the rear rail supports any day...also serves for hanging towels to dry...


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## ftwildernessguy

deanintemp said:


> Mechanical designer here...give me the rear rail supports any day...also serves for hanging towels to dry...


I agree. I guess I'm just old school.


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## TwoElkhounds

deanintemp said:


> Mechanical designer here...give me the rear rail supports any day...also serves for hanging towels to dry...


LOL.....We hang our towels to dry all the time on the supports, we too would miss them!! If I were to upgrade, I am sure there would be a towel hanging mod in my future!!

DW and I looked at a 2011 250RS yesterday, just for kicks since we happened to be in the store shopping. It was nice to finally see the dealer stocking Outbacks again. Anyhow, the new 250RS has remedied several issues over our current 2006 25RSS. Swapping the dinette and the couch is a much better arrangement. The couch is comfortable, much better than the 2006 vintage (we hardly ever sit on our couch because it is uncomfortable). The side slide appears deeper, giving more room. There appears to be more storage, the axle flip on the 2011 has removed the wheel well from under the sink cabinet, there are deep drawers under each side of the dinette, and the electroncis shelf has been replaced with a cabinet. They have a mattress that is actually quite nice and soft, FINALLY!! I think our 2006 came with a box spring, not a mattress!! Have to put a topper on it just to make it bearable.

So the talk of upgrading has begun, but it is only talk (at least for now).







Told the wife we need to start saving money so we can buy a used 2011 250RS in 2015.









DAN


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## deanintemp

TwoElkhounds said:


> Mechanical designer here...give me the rear rail supports any day...also serves for hanging towels to dry...


LOL.....We hang our towels to dry all the time on the supports, we too would miss them!! If I were to upgrade, I am sure there would be a towel hanging mod in my future!!

DW and I looked at a 2011 250RS yesterday, just for kicks since we happened to be in the store shopping. It was nice to finally see the dealer stocking Outbacks again. Anyhow, the new 250RS has remedied several issues over our current 2006 25RSS. Swapping the dinette and the couch is a much better arrangement. The couch is comfortable, much better than the 2006 vintage (we hardly ever sit on our couch because it is uncomfortable). The side slide appears deeper, giving more room. There appears to be more storage, the axle flip on the 2011 has removed the wheel well from under the sink cabinet, there are deep drawers under each side of the dinette, and the electroncis shelf has been replaced with a cabinet. They have a mattress that is actually quite nice and soft, FINALLY!! I think our 2006 came with a box spring, not a mattress!! Have to put a topper on it just to make it bearable.

So the talk of upgrading has begun, but it is only talk (at least for now).







Told the wife we need to start saving money so we can buy a used 2011 250RS in 2015.









DAN
[/quote]
Yep, upon first noticing the rear bed supports my DW said..."I didn't know those supported our bed, I just thought they were for hanging towels and wet clothes"...love her dearly...


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## duggy

From what I can figure, the bed is supported mainly by the cables. They are always under tension, both on the inside, and on the outside of the slide. On the instructions for adjusting the cables, they warn you that whatever adjustment is made on one side (inside or outside) of the cable, an equal, but opposite, adjustment must be made on the other side of the cable. Other than stretch over time, there isn't any way for the slide to sag. The other potential breaking points would be the back wall and attachment points.

I've read a lot of posts about rear slides pulling the track out of the ceiling. I believe they're all manual slides, but just to be safe, I made a quick wooden support for travel. You have to believe there are some pretty strong forces when the trailer goes over a big bump. That's a far bigger concern for me than the weight of the DW and me sleeping in the bed.

As for the bed length, I'm 5' 6" and the bed's none too long. We love the width though. Now the DW wants a king at home.

Doug


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## Lakewood

deanintemp said:


> Mechanical designer here...give me the rear rail supports any day...also serves for hanging towels to dry...


Structural Engineer here....







I'm comfortable with the slideout of our 210RS without the supports but mainly because the slide does not budge when the GF and I climb into bed. We've spent probably 6 or 7 weekends in the trailer since we bought it in February and the slideout has been rock solid. I am very curious to see some design drawings or photo's of the framework. I spent some time trying to figure out the mechanism and agree that the cables are used to pull the frame tight against the back wall of the trailer. The load of two people (even heavy ones enjoying themselves) and the weight of the slide is actually fairly light from a structural standpoint.


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## thefulminator

deanintemp said:


> Mechanical designer here...give me the rear rail supports any day...also serves for hanging towels to dry...


X2

Aircraft Stress Engineer here. Better support and fewer things to go wrong.


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## Ish

svinc said:


> A king size bed WOULD be nice lol. I ordered my 250 RS because it was one of the few trailers with a 'king' bed, this is one reason I went with our 2008 Niagara. We did our PDI, took the trailer 4 hours away from the dealer and camped our first night in it. After a long day driving and setting up camper, unpacking, organizing etc I put my son to bed and crawl into bed, only to find my feet hanging off the edge of the bed!
> 
> It is NOT a king size bed like the brochure says. It is in between a queen and a king, wider than a queen but shorter than either. It is 72x74 a king bed is 76x80 and a queen is 60x80
> 
> If you are over 6' you probably want to look at a larger bed design, the dinette turns into 48x84 but who wants to sleep on their dinette all the time lol.


I'm 6'2" and while a longer bed would be nice, I haven't had any issues sleeping. I really like the fact we can sleep with our heads against the back of the 250rs and don't have to climb over each other to get up in the middle of the night.


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## duggy

Ish said:


> I'm 6'2" and while a longer bed would be nice, I haven't had any issues sleeping. I really like the fact we can sleep with our heads against the back of the 250rs and don't have to climb over each other to get up in the middle of the night.


I also like the fact that we each have a window right beside us. Good cross ventilation and individual climate control!


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## Troy n Deb

I have had no problems with the manual slideout. It's not that difficult that I would think anyone would need an electric slide. I do agree a bigger bed would be nicer. I have several strings with hooks that I run accross the rails for my towel rack.


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## thefulminator

I let my eleven year old push/pull the slide in and out. We park the bikes under it and lock them to the bumper. The supports make a nice place to hang the bike helmets.


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## Red Beard

Here is a little more info pertaining to the "new" rear slides&#8230;.








The rear slide is cable operated and is the same system that the high end coaches have been using for some time. 
Before putting money down on our 250RS I contacted keystone directly about this system since several dealers that I talked to really did not have a clue how it worked or the specifications of the system. The new system is capable of supporting 1,200 lbs open or closed; far superior to the "old" system. That is a safety factor of approximately 3 for you engineer types.








Although the new system has the guides in the ceiling they are just that guides to keep the slide aligned. 
I also talked to some of the reps that have this system on motor coaches; they have been on the market for some time and seem to be working well.


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## deanintemp

I have seen cable supported rear slides that sag and I have seen cable supported rear slides that have not sagged. However, I have yet to see a rail supported rear slide that has sagged. I specifically chose Outback because they were one of the few that still had a rail-supported rear slide. I guess it will depend on the workmanship and parts quality designed into the system along with routine maintenance. Most of the high-end coach slides do not extend as much as the rear bed slides on these units...they are typically side slides that extend a couple feet - that depth-to-height ratio makes for a better configuration for cable supports. I am sure that, designed and maintained properly, they will work fine for years to come. It will be interesting to watch the forum for potential issues with this design.


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## Jim Boyes

Outback rear slide solutions manual slides.

Hello All.
I am new to this forum. I have recently purchased a 2007 Keystone Outback 18 RS which has a manual rear slide for the queen bed. The trailer is imaculate and the only issue I have been able to discover is the overhead ceiling track associated with the rear slide. I am thankful for this as other owners on this and other threads have described other problems.
The tracks, especially the right one have failed due to several factors which can be summed up by "over load". In this case this referes to the capacity of the product to do what it must reasonably do rather than any misuse by the owner.
There are several factors at work with these track failures.

1/ The basic design of the slide features a weight transfer as the slide unit is moved through its range of travel. Several parts of the trailer bear the weight progressively as it is moved from full "in" to full "out" positions.
When the slide is fully "in" 50% of the weight of the slide is suspended from the very end of the ceiling tracks meaning that each of the two tracks must suspend 25% of the slide assembly weight. The slide weighs quite a bit. I would guess at least 500 lb. and perhaps more with the bed made up. Certainly people can be expected to fill up the storage shelf and cupboards associated with the slide which will result in a heavy slide unit.
with the slide "in" the remaining slide weight rests on the back wall of the trailer and the slide is clamped tightly onto the back wall with large lever clamps.

It is important to note that when the trailer is being towed over the road the slide unit, which is partially hanging suspended from the inner ends of the tracks will be jouncing and bouncing inside the trailer causing extreme forces (far beyond simply the actual weight of the slide unit) to be exertred on the ends of the tracks where the weight is hanging. This will exert a strain on the slide unit rollers, the track itself the screws holding the track to the ceiling and the particular ceiling truss (rafter) which carries the very end of the track. Having had a good look at all this I have concluded that none of the involved parts are really substantial enough for the job. It is at best marginal. Also when travelling, the slide will exert changing, twisting and prying forces on the rear wall of the trailer. ( see below for more on this)

2/ The ceiling track is way too light for the job. This aluminum extrusion should be much heavier material. It looks as if it could be adequate to handle a household sliding closet door or some such but not a heavy suspended weight in a mobile application.
My tracks have experienced a typical failure. The screw heads hoding the track up to the ceiling truss ( which is above the ceiling board) have insufficient bearing area (should have had a large square washer between the screw head and the track to distribute the load) which has let the roof of the track bend around the screw head causing a distortion or failure of the track. Repeated over many cycles the aluminum track has fatigued and cracked in several places near the screw and finally the screw head tore right through the aluminum track. Once an extrusion has failed to this extent it is not functioning to support the weight hanging on it. The forces involved with the weight hanging in the track are progressively transferred back in along the track to the next ceiling truss and screw head where another failure will occur. My track has distorted along the sides and bottom flanges as well as a result on this over-stressing.

3/ As mentioned above, the screws attaching the track to the ceiling are inadequate in bearing area (head size) for the job. 
Also no washer of any kind was used to spread the load out to the sides of the track. This, as explained, lets the track bend around the screw head and the entire track eventually distorts and fails. Typical cracks begin radiating out from the screw hole and when they reach the sides of the track it is a total failure.

4/ The roof trusses (rafters) are stamped lightweight galvanized metal. These have an arched profile top-side which gives the roof its arch shape side to side and a flat bottom for the ceiling of the trailer. The trusses are a flat back "C" channel profile viewed from their ends. The trusses are about 2" deep at the walls and perhaps 6" at the center line of the trailer. The web ( back)of the truss has several oval holes stamped out across the width of the trailer to alow wiring and ducts to pass along through the roof structure. The top and bottom flanges of the truss are about 1" deep. The trusses are very light weight and due to their shape are strong enough to carry the roof just fine. For a camparisson, think steel studding used in building construction. 
Anyone wanting to have a look at the trusses in their trailer can do so by removing the inner frame and housing of one of their ceiling vent/skylight units. The adjacent trusses will be there to be seen. The difficulty with the trusses is encountered where the rear slide is concerned. The tracks which carry the slide must be fastened at 90 deg. under the ceiling to the trusses and screws are used for this. The screws go up through the bottom flange of the truss which is very thin stamped steel metal. So the heavy, bouncing, slide unit (when "in") is hanging from two screws (approx #8 size screws) which are screwed through light guage sheet metal ! No wonder there have been wide spread failures of the tracks etc.

5/ When the slide is sliding out rearward the load hanging in the tracks progessively moves and is trandferred back and down upon the rollers under the slide and bears on the removable tracks / rails which are set up on the back of the trailer. The further out the slide moves the more weight bears on the track finally bearing substantially on the very back tips of the track. This weight becomes a force which effecively pulls straight back on the track brackets screwed into the back of the trailer 1/2 way up the back wall and also a force pushing down and ahead bearing through the angled support rods on the lower brackets low down on the back wall. So the result is a force pulling back and down on the back wall of the trailer. This will account for the failure of the attachment of the center section of the back walls and the side walls experienced in some outback RS models. Apparently the side and back walls are not welded together but screwed. Barely adequate at best.

6/ Best solution for the problems.
It will be necessary to remove small sections of the ceiling board close to the slider overhead track to gain access to the interior of the roof at the points where where the track crosses under each truss/rafter. Determine by removing a vent or the air conditioner trim which way the trusses face. That is, open sides forward or backward. The object will be to insert a backing block of a hardwood ( other suggestions ? ) which fits inside and fills the truss web at the point where each screw holds the track up to the ceiling. I suggest at least 4 locations ( front and back of each track) and ideally all such points of intersection. These hardwood blocks wiull be fastned to the web of the truss and fit snugly between the upper and lower flange. It will be important that the blocks rest tightly along the bottom flange at least.
These hardwwd backing blocks will be drilled from below when installing the new track and the screws which should be at least a # 10 round head screw will thread through the ceiling board, the lower metal truss flange and up into the pre-drilled hardwood block. This will prevent any possibility that the screws can strip out of the metal truss which is what is presently happening.
Of equal importance, a rectangular washer should be fitted up into the track so the screw head does not bear directly on the inside of the track ceiling but rather the screw head holds the larger washer up against the track spreading the load right out to the sides of the track. I believe the washer can be about 1 5/8" wiht X 2" long and can be 1/8" thick. This thicknes should be the max thinkness still alowing clearance for the slider roller wheels to pass underneath in the track. Use steel for the washers, not aluminum. A layer of vinyl electrical tape applied on the up-side of the washer will separate the aluminum from the steel, always a good idea.

An alternate repair could involve using some kind of a blind hole fastener such as a "Jack-nut" to create a threded nut on the inside of the truss lower flange. Then a Machine screw could be used rather than a wood screw. Probably a round head 1/4 - 20 machine screw with the steel rectangular washer would be best. This would be installed by drilling a suitable hole up through the track, the ceiling and through the lower truss flange. For a 1/4" size Jack-nut a hole about 7/16 will be required to insert the Jack-nut. The trick will be to determine the optimum location for these Jack-not holes to prevent interferrance with the inside face of the truss web. Some might prefer this idea as it does not require cutting access ports into the ceiling. Remember though that however much this might be a more appealing idea it will not have the holding ultimate strength of the wood block backer inside the truss and a heafty screw. Would the Jack-nut method be sufficient? Who knows.
Ceiling repairs should not be complex if the holes were thoughtfully cut. Factory trim is available for joints.
An other repair might involve an aluminum block about 3'8 " thick placed along the inside of the lower flange into which a large head tech-screw
was threaded from below. This is simply another way to achieve backing support for the flange.

7/ Finally, to prevent a recurring failure.
I am going to fabricate a support to fit between the floor and the underside of the slide to be used when it is the "in" position. This will spread the weight out along the trailer floor and be located when in use over a floor joist. It will be adjustable to be able to achieve firm support and will relieve the ceiling track from carrying the weight from the bouncing slide. Such a support, made from aluminum with rubber bumpers can fold up and be storred when the trailer is occupied. Also, a pair of adjustable legs to stand unter the outer ends of the extended support tracks to transfer the weight down to the ground. These will prevent the pulling and twisting force designed into the Outback with a rear slide.

The Outbacks are good units in my opinion. And the rear slide is a great idea for keeping a trailer short on the road while providing space in use. Unfortunately there have been some shortsighted decisions made, probably in the interests of keeping costs down when the trailers were engineered. Amazing how a few small details which if handled during assembly could have prevented so much grief among the owners and in the end not added enough to costs to matter to anyone.

Regards to all.
Jim Boyes


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## Tangooutback

Jim,

In your mechanical analysis, items number 3, 4 and 5 would be greatly appreciated by some photos. I have to admit I got lost while reading through them.

Thanks

Howard


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## Jim Boyes

Tangooutback said:


> Jim,
> 
> In your mechanical analysis, items number 3, 4 and 5 would be greatly appreciated by some photos. I have to admit I got lost while reading through them.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Howard


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## wv outbacker

I like my manual with the support beds. I have a couple of friends who have the electric slide out on their camper (not an outback) and they have had nothing but trouble with it. My sister is getting ready to buy a new 2011 210RS with electric slide out so I will let you know how it works out. I will keep my manual, like someone else said, less things to go wrong and I like my towel rack too!!


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## CamperAndy

Jim - the track do not support any weight when the outside locks are in place. The rear wall supports all the weight. The only time the tracks take any weight is during the time the outside locks are disengaged and the slide is being moved in or out. If the rollers have any load on the tracks when the outside locks are set then the rollers are not set correctly. The outside lock should cause the inside front of the slide to lift slightly when set creating a 1/8" gap between the rollers and the track.

track failures are due to incorrectly adjusted rollers and/or also over tightened screws that strip out in the trusses.


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## fastcarsspeed

2010 230RS here. We have not had a problem yet with the rear slide and we have used it probably 8-10 times this season. I am a big guy and it does not budge one bit. With the Toy Hauler this TT has been a great addition to our family. I have noticed older OB's have the braces and I too am a little jealous as they do look like great towel racks.


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