# Wdh Hitch



## MikeS (Jun 26, 2007)

I have an 02 F150 Crew Cab and I pull a Kargaroo 23KRS. With two bikes loaded, my tongue weight is at 1250lbs. With a WDH, is it possible to get it too tight on the load bars? I have a set of #1200 lb bars.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

MikeS said:


> I have an 02 F150 Crew Cab and I pull a Kargaroo 23KRS. With two bikes loaded, my tongue weight is at 1250lbs. With a WDH, is it possible to get it too tight on the load bars? I have a set of #1200 lb bars.


 There is a point where too much is well....too much! But that aside, in order for us to be of more help we need to know what type of WDH you have. IE: Reese Dual Cam, Husky, Blue Ox, Equalizer? This will help.

Personally, on my 31RQS, I have a Valley WDH. With my set up I am tensioning on the 6th link up from the bars. That does a good job for me. Yours will depend on your hitch height, weight your shifting, etc. A little more info and we'll be able to rattle some info your way!

Eric


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Others willl help you out with your WDH question....but I just wanted to say


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## MikeS (Jun 26, 2007)

egregg57 said:


> I have an 02 F150 Crew Cab and I pull a Kargaroo 23KRS. With two bikes loaded, my tongue weight is at 1250lbs. With a WDH, is it possible to get it too tight on the load bars? I have a set of #1200 lb bars.


 There is a point where too much is well....too much! But that aside, in order for us to be of more help we need to know what type of WDH you have. IE: Reese Dual Cam, Husky, Blue Ox, Equalizer? This will help.

Personally, on my 31RQS, I have a Valley WDH. With my set up I am tensioning on the 6th link up from the bars. That does a good job for me. Yours will depend on your hitch height, weight your shifting, etc. A little more info and we'll be able to rattle some info your way!

Eric
[/quote]

Thanks for the quick reply. I am going to pick it up from the dealer in a few because I had some maintenance done. I will check Hitch and take some pics.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

MikeS said:


> I have an 02 F150 Crew Cab and I pull a Kargaroo 23KRS. With two bikes loaded, my tongue weight is at 1250lbs. With a WDH, is it possible to get it too tight on the load bars? I have a set of #1200 lb bars.


 There is a point where too much is well....too much! But that aside, in order for us to be of more help we need to know what type of WDH you have. IE: Reese Dual Cam, Husky, Blue Ox, Equalizer? This will help.

Personally, on my 31RQS, I have a Valley WDH. With my set up I am tensioning on the 6th link up from the bars. That does a good job for me. Yours will depend on your hitch height, weight your shifting, etc. A little more info and we'll be able to rattle some info your way!

Eric
[/quote]

Thanks for the quick reply. I am going to pick it up from the dealer in a few because I had some maintenance done. I will check Hitch and take some pics.
[/quote]

Good enough. I will be the first to say I do not have experience with hitches other than the Valley. But the collective knowledge here will help to get you snugged up right.

Eric


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## gregjoyal (Jan 25, 2005)

MikeS said:


> I have an 02 F150 Crew Cab and I pull a Kargaroo 23KRS. With two bikes loaded, my tongue weight is at 1250lbs. With a WDH, is it possible to get it too tight on the load bars? I have a set of #1200 lb bars.


Others will surely chime in.. but if I remember correctly, suggested tongue weight should be 10-15% of your trailer weight. At 1250lbs I'm going to guess that you're a tad heavy... I think you should be around 800-900lbs of tongue weight (maybe more with those Roo's).

The bottom line is that your truck should 'squat' evenly or close to. If the rear of your truck squats 2 inches, and the front lifts 1 inch you're WD isn't right. However, there is some give and take... If the rear squats 1.5 inches and the front squats 1" you're likely fine.

Sounds to me like some adjustments are in the works! You're hitch head may be tipped too far or using too many links on the chains (too many hanging loose). How much do you have to life the rear of the truck once it's hooked up to the trailer to get the bars on?


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

If you have an Equalizer...I just tightened my Equal-i-zer bars by raising the L-brackets a notch. At night, I was a bit nose-high and would get the occasional "flash" from oncoming traffic. Raising the L-brackets increases the weight distrubtion. I also felt that the sway control could use a boost which raising the L-brackets also accomplishes.

-CC


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

Are you running your roo with a full freshwater tank. It helps balance the tongue wieght. James


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## Rubrhammer (Nov 27, 2006)

Beachbum did a very methodical setup with his equalizer hitch and documented it very well. He has a roo and had some issues getting it set up. Here is a link to his tpoics. There are a couple that relate. Happy ready.
Bob
http://www.outbackers.com/forums/index.php...ult_type=topics


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## MikeS (Jun 26, 2007)

gregjoyal said:


> I have an 02 F150 Crew Cab and I pull a Kargaroo 23KRS. With two bikes loaded, my tongue weight is at 1250lbs. With a WDH, is it possible to get it too tight on the load bars? I have a set of #1200 lb bars.


Others will surely chime in.. but if I remember correctly, suggested tongue weight should be 10-15% of your trailer weight. At 1250lbs I'm going to guess that you're a tad heavy... I think you should be around 800-900lbs of tongue weight (maybe more with those Roo's).

The bottom line is that your truck should 'squat' evenly or close to. If the rear of your truck squats 2 inches, and the front lifts 1 inch you're WD isn't right. However, there is some give and take... If the rear squats 1.5 inches and the front squats 1" you're likely fine.

Sounds to me like some adjustments are in the works! You're hitch head may be tipped too far or using too many links on the chains (too many hanging loose). How much do you have to life the rear of the truck once it's hooked up to the trailer to get the bars on?
[/quote]

This is so nice to get such good info from people. I really do Appreciate all of this help.

Maybe I am being a bit to anal about this too. As I tend to do. 
What I do is set the tongue on the hitch and let it drom the back of the truck about 1/2". Then I set the bars with the cheater bar and that is enough to pick the tongue jack off the ground. The whole truck seems to sit pretty level. Remember that I also have 500 lbs of bike that sit right over the tongue when loaded. 
As for the maker of the hitch... I cannot find any name on the hitch itself, but the bars read "Valley".


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

This is so nice to get such good info from people. I really do Appreciate all of this help.

Maybe I am being a bit to anal about this too. As I tend to do. 
What I do is set the tongue on the hitch and let it drom the back of the truck about 1/2". Then I set the bars with the cheater bar and that is enough to pick the tongue jack off the ground. The whole truck seems to sit pretty level. Remember that I also have 500 lbs of bike that sit right over the tongue when loaded. 
As for the maker of the hitch... I cannot find any name on the hitch itself, but the bars read "Valley".
[/quote]

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winna!! Sounds like you have a Valley WDH, with 1200lb bars to me! This is something I am familiar with. And it sounds to me that you are getting or at least close to getting the desired results. With the weight off the tongue jack, and levelers taught, the tow vehicle and TT should be sitting level. An incline in either vehicle suggest that an adjustment to your hitch height might be needed. But if you appear to be level.... you're darn close.

The cheater bar wouyld definatly be requird to set the bars in most cases. How many links have you counted up from the bar?

Eric


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

MikeS said:


> I have an 02 F150 Crew Cab and I pull a Kargaroo 23KRS. With two bikes loaded, my tongue weight is at 1250lbs. With a WDH, is it possible to get it too tight on the load bars? I have a set of #1200 lb bars.


Others will surely chime in.. but if I remember correctly, suggested tongue weight should be 10-15% of your trailer weight. At 1250lbs I'm going to guess that you're a tad heavy... I think you should be around 800-900lbs of tongue weight (maybe more with those Roo's).

The bottom line is that your truck should 'squat' evenly or close to. If the rear of your truck squats 2 inches, and the front lifts 1 inch you're WD isn't right. However, there is some give and take... If the rear squats 1.5 inches and the front squats 1" you're likely fine.

Sounds to me like some adjustments are in the works! You're hitch head may be tipped too far or using too many links on the chains (too many hanging loose). How much do you have to life the rear of the truck once it's hooked up to the trailer to get the bars on?
[/quote]

This is so nice to get such good info from people. I really do Appreciate all of this help.

Maybe I am being a bit to anal about this too. As I tend to do. 
What I do is set the tongue on the hitch and let it drom the back of the truck about 1/2". Then I set the bars with the cheater bar and that is enough to pick the tongue jack off the ground. The whole truck seems to sit pretty level. Remember that I also have 500 lbs of bike that sit right over the tongue when loaded. 
As for the maker of the hitch... I cannot find any name on the hitch itself, but the bars read "Valley".
[/quote]

IMO you can never be "to anal" about your towing setup-if you are a typical dirt bike enthusiast your travel routes include many miles of gravel roads -so getting your weight distribution in the trailer and transfer of tongue weight to the trucks' front axle to stabilize steering on gravel is very important.

Are your getting even drop of the front and rear of the truck after installing the spring bars? Your 1250 tongue weight statement seems a bit heavy in relationship to the 23 KRS GVW. The 23 KRS is going to be in the higher part of the 10-15% of trailer GVW guideline range but 1250 puts you nearly to 18% of a 2007 23 KRS GVW. IMO a trip to the scale, in fully loaded trim, is in order to ensure that your axles are not overloaded on the trailer or the truck. Remember the Outback installed trailer tires won't take much abuse B4 having issues due to being pretty much run at 100% of rated capacity and being of a dubious quality!

Happy trails and don't roost your girl to much with that 450!

Map Guy


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

map guy said:


> I have an 02 F150 Crew Cab and I pull a Kargaroo 23KRS. With two bikes loaded, my tongue weight is at 1250lbs. With a WDH, is it possible to get it too tight on the load bars? I have a set of #1200 lb bars.


Others will surely chime in.. but if I remember correctly, suggested tongue weight should be 10-15% of your trailer weight. At 1250lbs I'm going to guess that you're a tad heavy... I think you should be around 800-900lbs of tongue weight (maybe more with those Roo's).

The bottom line is that your truck should 'squat' evenly or close to. If the rear of your truck squats 2 inches, and the front lifts 1 inch you're WD isn't right. However, there is some give and take... If the rear squats 1.5 inches and the front squats 1" you're likely fine.

Sounds to me like some adjustments are in the works! You're hitch head may be tipped too far or using too many links on the chains (too many hanging loose). How much do you have to life the rear of the truck once it's hooked up to the trailer to get the bars on?
[/quote]

This is so nice to get such good info from people. I really do Appreciate all of this help.

Maybe I am being a bit to anal about this too. As I tend to do. 
What I do is set the tongue on the hitch and let it drom the back of the truck about 1/2". Then I set the bars with the cheater bar and that is enough to pick the tongue jack off the ground. The whole truck seems to sit pretty level. Remember that I also have 500 lbs of bike that sit right over the tongue when loaded. 
As for the maker of the hitch... I cannot find any name on the hitch itself, but the bars read "Valley".
[/quote]

IMO you can never be "to anal" about your towing setup-if you are a typical dirt bike enthusiast your travel routes include many miles of gravel roads -so getting your weight distribution in the trailer and transfer of tongue weight to the trucks' front axle to stabilize steering on gravel is very important.

Are your getting even drop of the front and rear of the truck after installing the spring bars? Your 1250 tongue weight statement seems a bit heavy in relationship to the 23 KRS GVW. The 23 KRS is going to be in the higher part of the 10-15% of trailer GVW guideline range but 1250 puts you nearly to 18% of a 2007 23 KRS GVW. IMO a trip to the scale, in fully loaded trim, is in order to ensure that your axles are not overloaded on the trailer or the truck. Remember the Outback installed trailer tires won't take much abuse B4 having issues due to being pretty much run at 100% of rated capacity and being of a dubious quality!

Happy trails and don't roost your girl to much with that 450!

Map Guy
[/quote]

x2!!!


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## MikeS (Jun 26, 2007)

egregg57 said:


> I have an 02 F150 Crew Cab and I pull a Kargaroo 23KRS. With two bikes loaded, my tongue weight is at 1250lbs. With a WDH, is it possible to get it too tight on the load bars? I have a set of #1200 lb bars.


Others will surely chime in.. but if I remember correctly, suggested tongue weight should be 10-15% of your trailer weight. At 1250lbs I'm going to guess that you're a tad heavy... I think you should be around 800-900lbs of tongue weight (maybe more with those Roo's).

The bottom line is that your truck should 'squat' evenly or close to. If the rear of your truck squats 2 inches, and the front lifts 1 inch you're WD isn't right. However, there is some give and take... If the rear squats 1.5 inches and the front squats 1" you're likely fine.

Sounds to me like some adjustments are in the works! You're hitch head may be tipped too far or using too many links on the chains (too many hanging loose). How much do you have to life the rear of the truck once it's hooked up to the trailer to get the bars on?
[/quote]

This is so nice to get such good info from people. I really do Appreciate all of this help.

Maybe I am being a bit to anal about this too. As I tend to do. 
What I do is set the tongue on the hitch and let it drom the back of the truck about 1/2". Then I set the bars with the cheater bar and that is enough to pick the tongue jack off the ground. The whole truck seems to sit pretty level. Remember that I also have 500 lbs of bike that sit right over the tongue when loaded. 
As for the maker of the hitch... I cannot find any name on the hitch itself, but the bars read "Valley".
[/quote]

IMO you can never be "to anal" about your towing setup-if you are a typical dirt bike enthusiast your travel routes include many miles of gravel roads -so getting your weight distribution in the trailer and transfer of tongue weight to the trucks' front axle to stabilize steering on gravel is very important.

Are your getting even drop of the front and rear of the truck after installing the spring bars? Your 1250 tongue weight statement seems a bit heavy in relationship to the 23 KRS GVW. The 23 KRS is going to be in the higher part of the 10-15% of trailer GVW guideline range but 1250 puts you nearly to 18% of a 2007 23 KRS GVW. IMO a trip to the scale, in fully loaded trim, is in order to ensure that your axles are not overloaded on the trailer or the truck. Remember the Outback installed trailer tires won't take much abuse B4 having issues due to being pretty much run at 100% of rated capacity and being of a dubious quality!

Happy trails and don't roost your girl to much with that 450!

Map Guy
[/quote]

x2!!!
[/quote]

OK guys, again, this is great help. I wish I would have taken a picture of it before I put the trailer away. Anyway, I have been to the scales fully loaded and here is what I wrote down.

Tongue Weight is 1228 lbs
Trailer Axles at 5700 lbs
Rear Truck Axle at 3950 lbs
Front Truck Axle at 3250 lbs

That was dropping 3 links. After seeing that there was more weight on the back, I now drop 4 links. But I have not been to a scale with that setting. 
Further, there is 500 lbs of Bikes in the Cargo Area, plus a 3000 Watt Gen, and a bed load of Firewood. With that, the rear sags maybe and 1" or so below the front.

How does this sound to you guys?


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## OregonCampin (Mar 9, 2007)

MikeS said:


> Maybe I am being a bit to anal about this too. As I tend to do.


Trust me - he can be! Maybe not in this case, but in many others in life!







Dear Outbackers family, this is my DH (Hi Honey!







) I guess he finally got tired of hearing about Outbacker's this and Outbacker's that and decided to join!


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

How are the towing manners? Does the combination hold the line you steer? Are you getting sway -from road variations and or passing trucks?

Looking at your numbers:
Tongue Weight is 1228 lbs seems high
Trailer Axles at 5700 lbs seems low -can you rearrange the garage cargo rearward towards the axles a bit?
Rear Truck Axle at 3950 lbs Unsure -what does the left door pillar sticker allow for Rear Gross Axle weight
Front Truck Axle at 3250 lbs Unsure -what does the left door pillar sticker allow for Front Gross Axle weight

Without the truck gross axle weight capacities it is hard to decide if hitch head angle and height need adjustment to allow more weight transfer to the truck front axle. Water tank may need to be filled as ballast to better balance the load...

This is all about balance much the same as setting the sag on your front and rear motorcycle suspension!

Map Guy


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## MikeS (Jun 26, 2007)

map guy said:


> How are the towing manners? Does the combination hold the line you steer? Are you getting sway -from road variations and or passing trucks?
> 
> Looking at your numbers:
> Tongue Weight is 1228 lbs seems high
> ...


Ok, I just went out and looked at the truck.
Front Axle is rated at 3600 lbs
Rear Axle is rated at 3800 lbs.

We were on the way back from our trip so the Weter tank was less than 1/3 full. Also, now that I think about it, I was carying My 450 KTM AND my Buddies 525 KTM in the cargo area, AND the Honda 230 and Generator in the Bed. That was my heaviest load.


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

MikeS said:


> How are the towing manners? Does the combination hold the line you steer? Are you getting sway -from road variations and or passing trucks?
> 
> Looking at your numbers:
> Tongue Weight is 1228 lbs seems high
> ...


Ok, I just went out and looked at the truck.
Front Axle is rated at 3600 lbs
Rear Axle is rated at 3800 lbs.

We were on the way back from our trip so the Weter tank was less than 1/3 full. Also, now that I think about it, I was carying My 450 KTM AND my Buddies 525 KTM in the cargo area, AND the Honda 230 and Generator in the Bed. That was my heaviest load.
[/quote]
How are the towing manners? Would you drive over the hill to Bend - China Hat / Millikan Valley with the current setup?
Looks like you need to transfer more weight to the front axle. I found a Valley instruction sheet PDF at this link. 
Valley Round Bar WDH
It says you need a minimum of 5 links between the frame brackets and the spring bar for clearance and that the spring bars should be parallel to the ground when loaded. So it seems that you need to play with the hitch head height and hitch head angle a bit to get the spring bar properly loaded.

Map Guy


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## MikeS (Jun 26, 2007)

map guy said:


> How are the towing manners? Does the combination hold the line you steer? Are you getting sway -from road variations and or passing trucks?
> 
> Looking at your numbers:
> Tongue Weight is 1228 lbs seems high
> ...


Ok, I just went out and looked at the truck.
Front Axle is rated at 3600 lbs
Rear Axle is rated at 3800 lbs.

We were on the way back from our trip so the Weter tank was less than 1/3 full. Also, now that I think about it, I was carying My 450 KTM AND my Buddies 525 KTM in the cargo area, AND the Honda 230 and Generator in the Bed. That was my heaviest load.
[/quote]
How are the towing manners? Would you drive over the hill to Bend - China Hat / Millikan Valley with the current setup?
Looks like you need to transfer more weight to the front axle. I found a Valley instruction sheet PDF at this link. 
Valley Round Bar WDH
It says you need a minimum of 5 links between the frame brackets and the spring bar for clearance and that the spring bars should be parallel to the ground when loaded. So it seems that you need to play with the hitch head height and hitch head angle a bit to get the spring bar properly loaded.

Map Guy
[/quote]

This is good info for me on the installation instructions. It appears that in order to achieve the correct loading on both axles of the truck, I have to have the spring bars pulled up too far. 
It sounds like I should just take it to the Hitch guys here in town that orginally installed this when I had another truck and a different trailer. The Outback dealer set this one up, and as far as I saw, they just eyeballed it. I want this to be correct so I think that a trip with the setup to the Hitch guys would be worth it. I dont have any pictures of it, but I do know that the bars ARE NOT level to the ground. They are pulled up too high just like the Instructions show not to do.

Thank you for all the help. I am gonna call those guys and see if they can adjust this for me.

I hope we can guess it without me having to load up all the bikes. If that is the case, I better take the day off and go RIDE!!!!


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## gregjoyal (Jan 25, 2005)

MikeS said:


> This is good info for me on the installation instructions. It appears that in order to achieve the correct loading on both axles of the truck, I have to have the spring bars pulled up too far.
> It sounds like I should just take it to the Hitch guys here in town that orginally installed this when I had another truck and a different trailer. The Outback dealer set this one up, and as far as I saw, they just eyeballed it. I want this to be correct so I think that a trip with the setup to the Hitch guys would be worth it. I dont have any pictures of it, but I do know that the bars ARE NOT level to the ground. They are pulled up too high just like the Instructions show not to do.
> 
> Thank you for all the help. I am gonna call those guys and see if they can adjust this for me.
> ...


If the bars aren't parallel, one way to correct it is to tip the hitch head a little further away from the truck. When I first put the bars in my hitch head, they are very close to the ground. after lifting the brackets (5 links) they are almost perfectly level.


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## MikeS (Jun 26, 2007)

gregjoyal said:


> This is good info for me on the installation instructions. It appears that in order to achieve the correct loading on both axles of the truck, I have to have the spring bars pulled up too far.
> It sounds like I should just take it to the Hitch guys here in town that orginally installed this when I had another truck and a different trailer. The Outback dealer set this one up, and as far as I saw, they just eyeballed it. I want this to be correct so I think that a trip with the setup to the Hitch guys would be worth it. I dont have any pictures of it, but I do know that the bars ARE NOT level to the ground. They are pulled up too high just like the Instructions show not to do.
> 
> Thank you for all the help. I am gonna call those guys and see if they can adjust this for me.
> ...


If the bars aren't parallel, one way to correct it is to tip the hitch head a little further away from the truck. When I first put the bars in my hitch head, they are very close to the ground. after lifting the brackets (5 links) they are almost perfectly level.
[/quote]

Ya know, the more I think about it, I think I am just going to try to tip the hitch head a bit like you described. The way it is now, I can hold the bars level before I even pull them up.

Thank you all for the friendly help. I hope to see Map Guy on the Trails!!!!


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