# Move Over Chevy And Ford



## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

Found out about this today. Rumor is that the new 2014 Rams will also have an 8 speed auto. phillip

http://detnews.com/article/20110209/AUTO01/102090398/1148/rss25


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Doesnt mean much. Any can be chipped for way more power than that.

The boss has a 2011 F350.. 1000tq and 500hp. Have a friend with a 5.9 05 dodge, 1200tq and 600hp. Both tow often, both work the heck out of the trucks. Both idle sometimes for 1 or 2 days continuous.

But yep out of the box with these power numbers they are all fun to drive.

The 8speed is something they are all working on. Expect to see all the brands have that soon.

Carey


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Heck, at this rate, they may as well use a CVT transmission with NO shifting!!


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

huntr70 said:


> Heck, at this rate, they may as well use a CVT transmission with NO shifting!!


That sounds good to me, the system (I say system as it will be more then just the transmission) senses the need for more torque to the wheels and it holds the engine at the peak torque output and varies the transmission to match the throttle/speed request. It would sure make for a smooth tow but would end up killing the hot rodders until they cracked the computer on the transmission.


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

i have a client that full times in a nice 5th wheel. he bought a 2011 6.7 2500 ram about a month ago, and has been very impressed with it. he traded in his 2003 2500 with the 5.9. only real issues he had with the 2003 was the fuel pump (common) and at 175k the tranny was starting to go.

after talking to him, i wanted to see for myself, so i took a few hours yesterday to go over to the local dodge dealer. drove a 2011 mega cab 3500 loaded up laramie. i must say, it was a really nice truck. and i liked the interior, i think they are did a nice job with that, too. that mega cab is massive, and even though the tow ratings are essentially the same with ford, IMHO the really heavy load pullers get a better engine braking system with the cummins. i think the integrated thing with ford just isn't the same or as good as the classic jake brake system with the dodge / cummins.

also, i was impressed with the dealership and sales guy. of course, they would love to convert a ford guy, and they bent over backwards. they were a hell of alot nicer than the ford crew when i went to drive the 2011 F350 a couple of months back. all that, and the preliminary numbers were more aggressive than ford. they are working hard to come back, and it's nice to see. in the end, it's always about people, and quality competition is a good thing for all of us truck buyers.

i now need to go drive the chevy / GMC to see how that feels. i am having fun with this ! i am not presently in the market (unless of course the dealer makes the "godfather" offer) so it's always nice to be in that position when vehicle shopping. no emotional attachment at all is the only real way to do it. but i must say, when the dodge guy calls me again (they always do) i think he might get pretty close to that "godfather" number all in. i just need to keep whispering "blue oval, blue oval......" to (help) fight off the urge !









i love the smell of new truck in the morning.....it smells like.....victory.........


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

Yeah, we are looking very hard and closely at the new 2011 Chevy 3500 SRW crew cab. I have read very positive things about it from all the reviews. I like the look of it. Have heard the exhaust brake operation is seamless and Fords requires some foot work with the brake. 
Regardless, I really like the new Chevy. Doing my homework. The old '06 Ram 2500 quad cab 4x4 only has 40k miles on it and it in great shape. So it should bring top dollar. We'll see. phillip


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

jdpm said:


> Yeah, we are looking very hard and closely at the new 2011 Chevy 3500 SRW crew cab. I have read very positive things about it from all the reviews. I like the look of it. Have heard the exhaust brake operation is seamless and Fords requires some foot work with the brake.
> Regardless, I really like the new Chevy. Doing my homework. The old '06 Ram 2500 quad cab 4x4 only has 40k miles on it and it in great shape. So it should bring top dollar. We'll see. phillip










Don't ask me how i know...... But the new Chevy is Nice


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

clarkely said:


> Yeah, we are looking very hard and closely at the new 2011 Chevy 3500 SRW crew cab. I have read very positive things about it from all the reviews. I like the look of it. Have heard the exhaust brake operation is seamless and Fords requires some foot work with the brake.
> Regardless, I really like the new Chevy. Doing my homework. The old '06 Ram 2500 quad cab 4x4 only has 40k miles on it and it in great shape. So it should bring top dollar. We'll see. phillip










Don't ask me how i know...... But the new Chevy is Nice








[/quote]

Oh yeah? Do tell. Do tell. I'm all ears. phillip


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

I think in the end Dodge will loose if they have a torque war, I here that the new ford diesel can produce as much as 1400 foot lbs of torque and doubt that a in line 6 would be capable of that much torque. But at that level all the trucks, Dodge, Chevy and Ford would need an different transmission and rear end.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

jdpm said:


> Yeah, we are looking very hard and closely at the new 2011 Chevy 3500 SRW crew cab. I have read very positive things about it from all the reviews. I like the look of it. Have heard the exhaust brake operation is seamless and Fords requires some foot work with the brake.
> Regardless, I really like the new Chevy. Doing my homework. The old '06 Ram 2500 quad cab 4x4 only has 40k miles on it and it in great shape. So it should bring top dollar. We'll see. phillip










Don't ask me how i know...... But the new Chevy is Nice








[/quote]

Oh yeah? Do tell. Do tell. I'm all ears. phillip
[/quote]

Ride is awesome.......did i say the ride is awesome







Power is awesome........... did i mention the power







and do i need to mention the Allison tranny







DO your research....thae tranny is awesome, they all have great power, the allison delivers more of it to the rear and so so smoothly.... The exhaust break is phenomenal.... did i tell you i love the exhaust break









I love my truck, but quite franlly they all deliver more than enough power.....they are all good choices...............just need to drive them all and see which one has more pros than cons for your use









Have Fun shopping


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

clarkely said:


> Yeah, we are looking very hard and closely at the new 2011 Chevy 3500 SRW crew cab. I have read very positive things about it from all the reviews. I like the look of it. Have heard the exhaust brake operation is seamless and Fords requires some foot work with the brake.
> Regardless, I really like the new Chevy. Doing my homework. The old '06 Ram 2500 quad cab 4x4 only has 40k miles on it and it in great shape. So it should bring top dollar. We'll see. phillip










Don't ask me how i know...... But the new Chevy is Nice








[/quote]

Oh yeah? Do tell. Do tell. I'm all ears. phillip
[/quote]

Ride is awesome.......did i say the ride is awesome







Power is awesome........... did i mention the power







and do i need to mention the Allison tranny







DO your research....thae tranny is awesome, they all have great power, the allison delivers more of it to the rear and so so smoothly.... The exhaust break is phenomenal.... did i tell you i love the exhaust break









I love my truck, but quite franlly they all deliver more than enough power.....they are all good choices...............just need to drive them all and see which one has more pros than cons for your use









Have Fun shopping








[/quote]

Can you give me some real world, hand calculated mpg figures? If so, please tell me under what conditons they were acheived - things such as trailer weight, hilly/flat roads, and especially speed. Thanks. Phillip


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## raynardo (Jun 8, 2007)

The prices of these new beasts humbles me.

I'll stick with my perfectly good 2006 F-250 PSD CC 4x4. It's paid for and has just 55K miles.

Every year someone is going to come out with something bigger, faster, and more powerful. So whenever you buy something in a short time it will be yesterday's news/technology.

Where do you want to jump in?


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Bill there are a ton of guys making 14-1500 torque from 5.9 cummins. Youtube has tons of videos. You got to remember that the marine cummins makes 800hp right from the factory. They are very de-tuned engines that go into the pickups. Whats great is the same shortblock and parts are shared between all cummins 5.9/6.7 engines wheather they are marine or auto. The crank in a cummins is just massive comparred to what the other brands offer. The crank is the weak part in Duramax's and without further engineering on there shortblock, we wont see much more hp from them. The new ford is yet to show its colors after adding hp parts. Ive yet to hear there limit. They have tiny rods so we'll see.

Carey


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

Check out this article.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/02/2011-chicago-auto-show-ram-increasing-heavy-duty-diesel-power-ratings.html

According to this the engine and transmission will be updated midway through the current 2011 model year. Primarily they are increasing the torque but also a modest increase in HP in some conditions. Honestly I would much rather have better fuel economy, I've never felt the need for more power when towing. I can go up hills at whatever speed I want it just depends how much fuel I'm willing to burn.


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

As Carey said hey can make that kinda power and be dependable heavy TV's. I spoke ot this guy on several occasions adn I know Carey has as well. Very knowlwdgeable and not a HP junky ONLY. Beleives in reliable useable power.

About 742hp and 1456lb tq worth of reliable power.

DOghouse Diesel 2006 Twin Turbo Cummins Diesel

Jim


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

Ok then. With money NOT being the issue - stick to the '06 Ram 2500 4x4 quad cab auto with 39k miles OR sell and get a new 2011 Chevy Duramax 3500 SRW 4x4 crew cab auto??? The appeal of the new truck would be the following: it would be a more comfortable cab with quieter interior and dual zone a/c, 6 speed tranny, exhaust brake, and a much higher payload for the heavier pin weight of future fiver upgrade. The mpg return remains to be the question. Hopefully, it would acheive at least the same mpg as the current Ram. From what I hear, it would get better.
I have had a lot of folks tell me NOT to part with the '06 RAM. Therefore, if I do, I know it will bring a good return. We'd originally planned to keep this truck to our grave. So whether we keep it or trade soon, either is going to be the keeper. Thanks, phillip


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## heron (May 13, 2010)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Bill there are a ton of guys making 14-1500 torque from 5.9 cummins. Youtube has tons of videos. You got to remember that the marine cummins makes 800hp right from the factory. They are very de-tuned engines that go into the pickups. Whats great is the same shortblock and parts are shared between all cummins 5.9/6.7 engines wheather they are marine or auto. The crank in a cummins is just massive comparred to what the other brands offer. The crank is the weak part in Duramax's and without further engineering on there shortblock, we wont see much more hp from them. The new ford is yet to show its colors after adding hp parts. Ive yet to hear there limit. They have tiny rods so we'll see.
> 
> Carey


Huh? Crank is the weakspot? Look at the list of the top *50* fastest diesel *trucks* . Most are on stock cranks, rods. Now, I'm talking trucks not funny cars etc...I'm not bashing any brand but the Duramax platform can handle the power. There is even a large posting on powerstrokenation about the 50 lists. Most of these duramax trucks regularly run in the 11 sec or better 1/4 mile. They are producing HIGH HP(way over 500) on a stock crank. Many on duramaxforum and DP are running over 500*rwhp* on stock cranks, racing the trucks on the weekends and pulling loads during the week. 
Now, I definitely agree that as the power goes up any engine will reach it's reliability pitfalls. I personally will never mod my LBZ over 400rwhp. I want it to last and be reliable. 
I really like *all* the new trucks but with the emissions junk and the high prices you can have them. I really liked the Ford 7.3 and the Dodge 5.9(hated the tranny).


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## heron (May 13, 2010)

jdpm said:


> Ok then. With money NOT being the issue - stick to the '06 Ram 2500 4x4 quad cab auto with 39k miles OR sell and get a new 2011 Chevy Duramax 3500 SRW 4x4 crew cab auto??? The appeal of the new truck would be the following: it would be a more comfortable cab with quieter interior and dual zone a/c, 6 speed tranny, exhaust brake, and a much higher payload for the heavier pin weight of future fiver upgrade. The mpg return remains to be the question. Hopefully, it would acheive at least the same mpg as the current Ram. From what I hear, it would get better.
> I have had a lot of folks tell me NOT to part with the '06 RAM. Therefore, if I do, I know it will bring a good return. We'd originally planned to keep this truck to our grave. So whether we keep it or trade soon, either is going to be the keeper. Thanks, phillip


I think I'd mod your current truck because you know what you have and it's solid. All the new trucks are quieter and more powerful with many bells and whistles but they are still not proven like the 5.9. I took my stock 07 and put about every mod and more they have on the new trucks. Everything from back up cameras to an electronic turbo brake there is nothing I would gain in a nbs other than maybe a tad quieter and a DPF with having to add urea every 5K. No thank you. Not to mention they are having issues with the urea freezing. Major issue GM is working on. Each manufacturer is facing their own challenges with emissions and more. They all have their weak links. If the ride quality and noise are an issue then yes, get a good price(don't trade it) and make a move. Try them all out and decide what you like. They are all amazing these days. The ride and lack of noise etc.. you almost forget you are in a diesel. They are all just sooo expensive these days!


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## bobTHEbuilder (Jan 4, 2011)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Doesnt mean much. Any can be chipped for way more power than that.
> 
> The boss has a 2011 F350.. 1000tq and 500hp. Have a friend with a 5.9 05 dodge, 1200tq and 600hp. Both tow often, both work the heck out of the trucks. Both idle sometimes for 1 or 2 days continuous.
> 
> ...


Unpossible.


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## 5th Time Around (Jul 8, 2008)

Phillip - I say stick with the Ram for now and save $ for when you get that awesome 5er, but call me before you trade in the Ram (Justin may need a truck for the truck camper he wants to live in). I sure do enjoy the "paid for" vehichles in my house. If I had payments I would be more likely to trade up all the time.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Oh, where to start on this.....

Regarding the OP, it sounds like Dodge is preparing for the next battle in the war. But that's just the thing, these are individual battles, and the war will continue on until the customers lose interest (based on this thread, I predict a long and healthy war







).

Personally, having seen all 3 cranks laying side by side, the Duramax looks the most..... dare I say.... Automotive....








It probably isn't the weakest link in the engine though, but if you lay out all 3 side by side, the difference is noticeable...

As for an 06 Ram, if the soot coming out of the tailpipe and the clatter doesn't bother you Phillip, I'd hold onto that truck. Fuel economy is coming back up, but I doubt you'll get much better right now and the investment on the new ones is huge (as has been previously mentioned).


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## outback loft (Sep 22, 2008)

bobTHEbuilder said:


> Doesnt mean much. Any can be chipped for way more power than that.
> 
> The boss has a 2011 F350.. 1000tq and 500hp. Have a friend with a 5.9 05 dodge, 1200tq and 600hp. Both tow often, both work the heck out of the trucks. Both idle sometimes for 1 or 2 days continuous.
> 
> ...


Unpossible.
[/quote]

How so??

I have pushed 1200tq and 600hp out of a 5.9 as well. I did it with a 2003 and with the twin ball bearing turbos I was getting over 60 pounds of boost as well.


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

5th Time Around said:


> Phillip - I say stick with the Ram for now and save $ for when you get that awesome 5er, but call me before you trade in the Ram (Justin may need a truck for the truck camper he wants to live in). I sure do enjoy the "paid for" vehichles in my house. If I had payments I would be more likely to trade up all the time.


Yeah, I hear ya Jennifer. SO DOES JOHN!







I think we will need the new truck for the new fiver and can't do both at the same time. I want the truck before the new fiver. Selling the truck out right and putting a few coins with it would allow for a small payment at 0% through gmac for 36 months. A new truck after the new fiver is NOT in the plans. We have strict guidelines we are trying to follow for our age 62 retirement. I know its hard for you to believe it, but we are abut 11 years older than you







phillip


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## 5th Time Around (Jul 8, 2008)

I can't believe that your that OLD! You'd never know it If the Ram is paid for, just stick away a monthly "truck payment" and put it in an interest bearing account for later. I think you're nuts to get rid of the Ram now with so few miles on it. It isn't like it is a daily driver like ours is. I think there is a huge truck war starting and only better things will come, just like the RV industry.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Bob a quick link for ya

http://www.doghousediesel.com/id4.html

The 2011 ford I built has more hp parts then included here. Its at least making these numbers.

http://www.hsperformance.com/ford-6-7l-powerstroke-dyno-results/

And as I said the duramax is already close to its max. Even with hp mods the engine isnt on par with the rest for strength in big hp numbers without major modifications. Not saying there is anything wrong with em. But they cant make big power without major mods in the short block.

http://www.hsperformance.com/gm-6-6l-lmm-duramax-dyno-results/

And for fun here is the new 6.7 cummins dyno results. Cummins always has and to date always will be the engine that can reliably make big, big power easilly. The short block is so stout that 1100-1200 torque can be done with a daily driver truck.

http://www.hsperformance.com/dodge-6-7l-cummins-dyno-results/


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

And all I can say is every Dmax that failed broke a crank. I used to haul rvs and seen pickups approach 1 million miles. Dodge was the only ones who made it along with a few 7.3 fords. All dmaxs failed at around the 450-550k mark from broke cranks. We had a slew that failed in the 275-350k range. I say for the average guy any brand is just fine.

And I agree with Nathan that other parts in the engine prolly contributed to the problem. Yep dmax engines are short stroke, fast and high winders explaining the hot rod records. None of those engines can go tow 12-15k. The new ford and the cummins can make 1000tq and tow as much weight as the GCVW allows without issues. Dmax's cant.. But in the end who cares, buy what tickles the wife and be happy!

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

One more great point is look at torque readings at 1500.. Dodge 360, ford 200, dmax 200 at about 1700. Who knows before 1700 rpms.

Even with all the computer technology of today, the charicteristics of the inline engine cant be overcome. Why are semis forced to use an inline engine? Off idle torque. For pulling, any inline engine will always feel more at home doing its job.

But unless you get up to say the 10000lb range off idle torque isnt really noticed as much. Outback is a mid level rv. They are sub 10k so my point is gonna be hard for most to understand.

Not saying any of the 3 cant do it. But the one that feels the most at home for heavy pulling is clearly the cummins.

If any would like to get the feel what a new 2010 dodge can tow, come on up to ND. They are advertising everyday here. Drive a brand new dodge and pull a 40 foot gooseneck. Make 3-4 trips from Casper to Williston each week.... Put over 100k in your pocket yearly.

lol what is the combo registered for? A WHOPPING 46000 lbs. YES you will weigh as much as 46000lbs pulling hot shot oilfield parts to rig locations.

There is no light truck on the road who can gross 46000lbs and live to tell about it other than a dodge.

I came up here because 100k is starting wages for all drivers. If you wanna a challenging job, come on up... Your needed here. Become a master behind a pick up steering wheel the weighs up to 46000lbs. Real weight haulers only use dodges. They trade em at 100k miles... Care to buy one, lol


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## Tyvekcat (Aug 28, 2007)

[quote name='Colorado~DirtBikers' date='12 February 2011 - 02:46 AM' timestamp='1297493219' post='403437']

"lol what is the combo registered for? A WHOPPING 46000 lbs. YES you will weigh as much as 46000lbs pulling hot shot oilfield parts to rig locations. "

*Holy Cow !!!*

That's some serious 'rattle' under the hood.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> And all I can say is every Dmax that failed broke a crank. I used to haul rvs and seen pickups approach 1 million miles. Dodge was the only ones who made it along with a few 7.3 fords. All dmaxs failed at around the 450-550k mark from broke cranks. We had a slew that failed in the 275-350k range. I say for the average guy any brand is just fine.
> 
> And I agree with Nathan that other parts in the engine prolly contributed to the problem. Yep dmax engines are short stroke, fast and high winders explaining the hot rod records. None of those engines can go tow 12-15k. The new ford and the cummins can make 1000tq and tow as much weight as the GCVW allows without issues. Dmax's cant.. But in the end who cares, buy what tickles the wife and be happy!
> 
> Carey


Funny how the Dodge preformed in the towing test that was done on all 3 trucks, they all did good until they got the 12% grade test the Ford and Chevy was able to maintain over 55 mph but the Dodge could not go over 45 mph. My buddies Dodge couldn't pull a 6000lb trailer over 45 going up up the Lewiston, Clarkston grade. A guy at work bought a Dodge about the same time I bought my Chevy. He can't keep it out of the shop several turbos, a transmission, brakes, engine won't start and dies for no reason etc etc etc, I've never had mine in the shop once except for Oil, lube etc.

All you are going to do towing 45000 lbs with a Dodge is kill someone, and of course you are breaking a bunch of laws federal and state but I guess 100K makes it OK to take that risk.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

N7OQ said:


> And all I can say is every Dmax that failed broke a crank. I used to haul rvs and seen pickups approach 1 million miles. Dodge was the only ones who made it along with a few 7.3 fords. All dmaxs failed at around the 450-550k mark from broke cranks. We had a slew that failed in the 275-350k range. I say for the average guy any brand is just fine.
> 
> And I agree with Nathan that other parts in the engine prolly contributed to the problem. Yep dmax engines are short stroke, fast and high winders explaining the hot rod records. None of those engines can go tow 12-15k. The new ford and the cummins can make 1000tq and tow as much weight as the GCVW allows without issues. Dmax's cant.. But in the end who cares, buy what tickles the wife and be happy!
> 
> Carey


Funny how the Dodge preformed in the towing test that was done on all 3 trucks, they all did good until they got the 12% grade test the Ford and Chevy was able to maintain over 55 mph but the Dodge could not go over 45 mph. My buddies Dodge couldn't pull a 6000lb trailer over 45 going up up the Lewiston, Clarkston grade. A guy at work bought a Dodge about the same time I bought my Chevy. He can't keep it out of the shop several turbos, a transmission, brakes, engine won't start and dies for no reason etc etc etc, I've never had mine in the shop once except for Oil, lube etc.

All you are going to do towing 45000 lbs with a Dodge is kill someone, and of course you are breaking a bunch of laws federal and state but I guess 100K makes it OK to take that risk.
[/quote]

I believe the point being made was that a cummins is a good engine............... and i dont believe anyone can really say it isn't .............. cummins have a lot more diesel experience and proven track record then GM or Ford.......... you have cummins and cats in heavy machinery and equipment....... in generators, etc........ Dmax is made for the small truck market only.........

That being said I love my Duramax and its power........... Any truck can have problems......... My budy got a 2011 Ford and was busting my chops about this and that...... (knock on wood) he had an injector issue and had his driveshaft replaced........ Reallly means nothing could happen to any brand, and he loves his truck......... they are all good trucks.....but a cummins is a cummins ........... just the rest of the dodge traditionally was not as nice........ i sat in a friends 2010 Crew and they did an excellent job of enlarging the back seat... styling looked as if they were copying ford..... was nice though....

To each their own......... thats why there are apples and oranges and vanilla and chocolate - 50 hp cars and electric and gas and 300 - 500 hp and up trucks modded out









Its ALL GOOD


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

N7OQ said:


> My buddies Dodge couldn't pull a 6000lb trailer over 45 going up up the Lewiston, Clarkston grade.


I can maintain 60 up the Lewiston grade pulling my fully loaded 31RQS, that said, that hill can kill the best trucks.

One little note guys truck bashing threads can go just as viral as politics or religion, if it gets personal it will get moderated.


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## swanny (Oct 31, 2007)

I think Isuzu started GM on diesel in the very early 70's. I also believe they still build them together today. I think after 40yrs of building anything you probably get pretty good at it. I look at it this way, The big 3 diesels will last a very long time, if taken care of. Most will get of thousands and thousands of miles. The way things are built today you would probaby be left with just the motor, everything else will be shot. Well, unless you have a GM produce, you'll still have a tranny, ALLISON.







Couldn't help myself









kevin


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## swanny (Oct 31, 2007)

here we go again







...................................................politics or religion??????


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

swanny said:


> I think Isuzu started GM on diesel in the very early 70's. I also believe they still build them together today. I think after 40yrs of building anything you probably get pretty good at it. I look at it this way, The big 3 diesels will last a very long time, if taken care of. Most will get of thousands and thousands of miles. The way things are built today you would probaby be left with just the motor, everything else will be shot. Well, unless you have a GM produce, you'll still have a tranny, ALLISON.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I personally didn't/don't see a brand war...... but i am often Naive to that kind of stuff.........

Like i said The top Three all have good vehicles, all have strengths and weakness's - cant go wrong with any of them.......








The Politically correct choice would have to be GM with all the Government bail out money... LOL


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

GM and Isuzu just parted ways on engine design. But yes the same duramax used to be in some of the Isuzu trucks.


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

Performance aside - the Dodge sure is the best looking of them all.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

You can leaglly register a dodge 5500 and a 2 axle, 8 tire gooseneck for 46000 lbs. Bill. The driver would make 100k. The truck would make 400-500,000 dollars for 100,000 paid miles. Yes 4-5 dollars a mile. Hot shot work in the Oulfield pays very well. Its very long hours because when they call ya, they want it now.

I have a friend just accross the border in Estevan, Sk. He has a dodge 3500 single tire and a 8 tire gooseneck. They pay him 135.00 an hour. Incredible! Just does local hot shot work in the southern Sk. area. He's grossing 1000 a day with his dodge.

I was sitting here thinking... I used to tow Heartland Landmarks all over the USA. I dont remember ever going below 50 mph or so climbing any hill. I would gross in the 22-24,000lb range. I guess maybe I got down to 45mph on the very worst ones maybe.

Carey


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

CamperAndy said:


> My buddies Dodge couldn't pull a 6000lb trailer over 45 going up up the Lewiston, Clarkston grade.


I can maintain 60 up the Lewiston grade pulling my fully loaded 31RQS, that said, that hill can kill the best trucks.

One little note guys truck bashing threads can go just as viral as politics or religion, if it gets personal it will get moderated.
[/quote]

That is cool that is one heck of a grade but so much better that is use to be, I still remember driving that twisted road in the old days, what is it now like 6 curves? Not sure why my friends dodge will only pull that grade at 45 mph I would think he should be able to pull it at 60mph too.

I do really believe all three trucks are great and do a great job but it really upset me when someone has to trash one truck so he can build up his truck.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> You can leaglly register a dodge 5500 and a 2 axle, 8 tire gooseneck for 46000 lbs. Bill. The driver would make 100k. The truck would make 400-500,000 dollars for 100,000 paid miles. Yes 4-5 dollars a mile. Hot shot work in the Oulfield pays very well. Its very long hours because when they call ya, they want it now.
> 
> I have a friend just accross the border in Estevan, Sk. He has a dodge 3500 single tire and a 8 tire gooseneck. They pay him 135.00 an hour. Incredible! Just does local hot shot work in the southern Sk. area. He's grossing 1000 a day with his dodge.
> 
> ...


I guess we are comparing Apples to Oranges here a 5500 and 2 axles







I thought we was talking about 2500 or 3500 trucks like most of us have. I feel better that you have enough truck to tow that kind of load. My brother use to work the oil fields years ago back in the late 70's early 80's in Gillette, Wy drove a 18 wheeler cement truck to case in the oil wells. Made good money but finally burned out, also it cost a lot of money back then to live in Gillette so he didn't live a king more like a poor guy.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

I work at a hospital we have several Generators that we maintain several are Cummins engines. I have some pictures of a cummins engine that broke a piston pin and put 3 large holes in the block, engine is a total lose. This happened during a load test, our cummin generators fail load tests all the time and we are having to get them serviced to pass a load test our cat generators never fail a load test RPM/60 cycles are dead on the they handle the load with no problems at all.


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## CdnOutback (Apr 16, 2010)

I had a truck in the business with a Cat engine in it. Cost me 40000 dollars in 5 years for repairs. I won't even wear CAT shoes now. I am a big Nascar fan and when the CAT car crashes... I cheer.


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

GlenninTexas said:


> Performance aside - the Dodge sure is the best looking of them all.


Proof that beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
















I do like their towing mirrors though!


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

CdnOutback said:


> You can leaglly register a dodge 5500 and a 2 axle, 8 tire gooseneck for 46000 lbs. Bill. The driver would make 100k. The truck would make 400-500,000 dollars for 100,000 paid miles. Yes 4-5 dollars a mile. Hot shot work in the Oulfield pays very well. Its very long hours because when they call ya, they want it now.
> 
> I have a friend just accross the border in Estevan, Sk. He has a dodge 3500 single tire and a 8 tire gooseneck. They pay him 135.00 an hour. Incredible! Just does local hot shot work in the southern Sk. area. He's grossing 1000 a day with his dodge.
> 
> ...


I guess we are comparing Apples to Oranges here a 5500 and 2 axles







I thought we was talking about 2500 or 3500 trucks like most of us have. I feel better that you have enough truck to tow that kind of load. My brother use to work the oil fields years ago back in the late 70's early 80's in Gillette, Wy drove a 18 wheeler cement truck to case in the oil wells. Made good money but finally burned out, also it cost a lot of money back then to live in Gillette so he didn't live a king more like a poor guy.
[/quote]

The point there is that it is the same cummins engine........

Like i said, All three are good........ I do like my Govt. Motor Trucks though


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## Partsman Ed (Aug 26, 2008)

Yawn!!


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Partsman Ed said:


> Yawn!!


Probably past your bed time


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

This has been a great thread. I'm thinking of buying a crew cab diesel in the next year or two. I've been a GM guy all my life, but I really am open to any of the Big Three. Personally, I think they all look fantastic. Dodge is probably least preferred only because the company still seems potentially on a path to vanishing.

I think it's important to note that 95% of us are talking about buying and towing with a 2500 or 3500 stock truck. I may do some Banks mods, but I'm not really interested in anything radical. Considering stock trucks, I think the magazine comparison in which the Dodge just fell on its face in real-world tests is significant. The numbers explained why - it isn't even in the ballpark with Ford and Chevy on stock torque. It's interesting to note the Cummins blah blah blah if I'm thinking of dumping $5-10k of mods into the motor, but I'm not.

Now, Carey, I don't mean this to be dismissive of what you're saying or suggesting it's wrong - in fact I've hoped to specifically see your comments on this issue as I began my research. But to me the question isn't how the engines compare in theoretical situations. (By theoretical I mean things I'll never do, not that others haven't successfully done them).

It just seems to me that if I were to compare what I'd find on the lots this afternoon the Dodge would simply not compare to the others in performance towing the 15k or so I'm likely to end up pulling. Do you agree with that, or was the magazine test flawed? (For those that didn't see the article, as I recall the conclusion was basically the Dodge was underpowered, and between Ford and Chevy the Ford had nicer interior layout, the Chevy rode better.)

On a related note, are there any compelling arguments for or against DRW, besides the obvious one of adding to weight capacity. One SRW 3500 owner told me it's simply not necessary for typical 5th wheel RV hauling, and you just don't need the additional points of failure.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

BoaterDan said:


> This has been a great thread. I'm thinking of buying a crew cab diesel in the next year or two. I've been a GM guy all my life, but I really am open to any of the Big Three. Personally, I think they all look fantastic. Dodge is probably least preferred only because the company still seems potentially on a path to vanishing.
> 
> I think it's important to note that 95% of us are talking about buying and towing with a 2500 or 3500 stock truck. I may do some Banks mods, but I'm not really interested in anything radical. Considering stock trucks, I think the magazine comparison in which the Dodge just fell on its face in real-world tests is significant. The numbers explained why - it isn't even in the ballpark with Ford and Chevy on stock torque. It's interesting to note the Cummins blah blah blah if I'm thinking of dumping $5-10k of mods into the motor, but I'm not.
> 
> ...


DRW obviously costs more up front to buy and maintain........ in addition to being able to take on more weight it also gives you a wider wheelbase and thus even more stable platform.

The dodge has sufficient "stock" power - when they do their emissions up grade next year - you can guarantee they will have the same numbers OR BETTER then ford and GM. I have to tell you the new (2010 nad newer) crew crab upgrade from the "quad cab" is nice. Looks like they copied Ford in styling........ both dodge and Ford are roomy ....... Ford has a ton of gadgetry I simply didn't need....... and the Allison gets more of the power to the rear wheels









That all being said i stuck with My GM


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

Thanks for getting this thread (that I started) back on track. We all know that the big 3 will always try to outdo one another even if just by a few numbers. That is competitioin. I did a lot of research prior to buying our '06 Ram diesel and it has been a good truck. Many, many people consistantly rave about the bullet proof Cummins. I knew that the Dodge had its short comings in other areas when I purchased it. I bought it for the engine. It has been good.
I'm not worried about the urea systems as they have been used in over the road diesels since 2010 and in Europe for several years. It acutally reduces the regen frequency therefore increasing fuel econ. 
he next big change in trucks will the 2014-15 year models and who know what they will bring. I know reduced weight. Not really what I want to tow a heavier RV. 
I have always been a fan of Chevy trucks and owned an Avalanche prior to the Ram diesel. But know I am very closely eyeing the new 2011 Chevy 3500 SRW trucks and read great reviews about them - from owners and testers. The level of refinement in the quiet engine, smooth shifting Allison 6 speed auto, a Caddy like ride due to independant front suspension, 11% better fuel economy, and 4100lb payoad on a SRW truck are all very attractive to me for a future truck. 
John and I are going to take a 3500 SRW crew on a test drive tomorrow on our way to the Jacksonville RV show. I have joined the Duramax forum and have been reading with great interest anything - good and bad - that I can about these trucks (I did the same prior to buying the Dodge). I'e even asked forum members their opinions and have been told DON'T drive the truck unless I plan to purchase!! We will see. Phillip


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## raynardo (Jun 8, 2007)

One drawback on DRW is that it won't fit through automatic car washes, and when your truck is filthy and that's the only option, SRW will shine!


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

And the dually fenders get beat by road debris, bugs etc. They do tow a very noticable better in windy conditions and in curves in the road. On a straight road you wont notice much difference. You avg 1mpg less with a dually versus a single tire across the board.

On what is percieved as less power, the cummins is a grunt type engine to either of the others two V8's. The V8 diesels are winders comparred to the low rpm lazy maners of a in line 6 diesel.

The magazines are prolly right. Pulling power off the line is seat of the pants better, because the v8's wind up. On the highway the cummins will be happy to grind out the power at 16-1800rpms versus the 2000-2300 rpms of the v8's.

Yes all 3 will cruise down the highway in the 1800 rpm range. BUT when the engine is asked to give pulling power the v8's will quickly down shift to do it. The cummins will lope along in the 1800 range and produce its power for a while before down shifting.

Id compare them to like a Clydsdale to a Quarter Horse. The Clydsdale will slowly grind out the power while the Quarter Horse will have to wind up a bit more give equal power.

Does it make any difference to John Q RV Tower? Nope. Does it make a difference in the commercial enviroment? Heck yea, the low winder will last longer then the higher winder. Its about that simple.

One can look at the 3's dyno numbers and understand what Im saying.

Off idle on a hill the v8s will struggle much more than the inline engine. This is a product of design and nothin else.

All of these reasons are why all semis have inline engines. There engines last a million or more miles because inline engines simply last longer than opposing type designs. Are these engines meant for high winding performane? No! These engine are to help support the countries needs and give long service to there owners so they can make a living supporting the countries freight needs.

Youll have to drive all 3 with a 15000lb load to understand. The power is equal, just in different ways.

Carey


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Id compare them to like a Clydsdale to a Quarter Horse. The Clydsdale will slowly grind out the power while the Quarter Horse will have to wind up a bit more give equal power.


More like a Donkey to a thoroughbred.


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

GREAT input Carey! Thanks! phillip


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## Chris 312BH (Jan 31, 2011)

I've always been a Dodge guy (on my 3rd truck) and when I was looking to jump into the market for 1-ton diesel SRW I really looked at all three trucks. I love my father-in-law's Chevy 2500, and my buddy has a really nice 3500 Ford with some great engine mods. All three trucks are more than capable of meeting "my" towing needs. What sealed the deal for me was that at the time of my purchase (early 2009) Dodge was the only truck you could still get with a manual transmission and that's what I wanted.


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

Chris 312BH said:


> I've always been a Dodge guy (on my 3rd truck) and when I was looking to jump into the market for 1-ton diesel SRW I really looked at all three trucks. I love my father-in-law's Chevy 2500, and my buddy has a really nice 3500 Ford with some great engine mods. All three trucks are more than capable of meeting "my" towing needs. What sealed the deal for me was that at the time of my purchase (early 2009) Dodge was the only truck you could still get with a manual transmission and that's what I wanted.


i hear you on the manual. there are alot of guys on the FORD diesel forums complaining about having to go to the slushbox.....


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## jozway (Jan 28, 2008)

N7OQ said:


> Id compare them to like a Clydsdale to a Quarter Horse. The Clydsdale will slowly grind out the power while the Quarter Horse will have to wind up a bit more give equal power.


More like a Donkey to a thoroughbred.
[/quote]

I dont think the Duramax is quite that bad?


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

jozway said:


> Id compare them to like a Clydsdale to a Quarter Horse. The Clydsdale will slowly grind out the power while the Quarter Horse will have to wind up a bit more give equal power.


More like a Donkey to a thoroughbred.
[/quote]

I dont think the Duramax is quite that bad?








[/quote]

Yeah you are right it is much much better than a thoroughbred.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

jozway said:


> Id compare them to like a Clydsdale to a Quarter Horse. The Clydsdale will slowly grind out the power while the Quarter Horse will have to wind up a bit more give equal power.


More like a Donkey to a thoroughbred.
[/quote]

I dont think the Duramax is quite that bad?








[/quote]










LOL Dudge Humor LOL


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Great input everyone. Carey, as always thanks for taking the time for your thorough answers.

I totally understand the torque curve - grunt vs. winder - whatever you want to call it difference. Of course, manufacturers tune or match the transmission and gearing to compensated for that, at least from the perspective of power delivered to the wheels in a a way that matters to the average RV hauler.

On a similar topic - I was a BIG skeptic of GM killing the big blocks, cuz as they say "there's no replacement for displacement". Several post-big-block 2500 owners here have reported positively on the new combination. The six speed allows the winder engine to stay in the power band better, so the practical net effect isn't all that different.

So, I think your summation that in the end to the average consumer, even heavy RV user, all these vehicles are fine choices. I would think you'd get 200k miles out of any of these combos with regular maintenance easy enough, and that's probably the high end of what most people hope to get out of them.


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