# Pop! Goes The Breakers...



## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

I brought my 28BHS home from camping today. I usually hook it to a 15 amp circuit from the house, using an adapter. Today, when I hooked this up it keeps popping my house GFI and the circuit breaker in the house. Nothing seems amiss in the trailer. It is running normally off of the battery. The trailer was operating just fine off of campground AC (30 Amp).

I went through the trailer and made sure everything was turned off and tried again. Same result. I have swapped drop cords, swapped adapters (I have two) and the same results each time. I wish I had an ordinary 30 AMP service to hook it to, just to give me some peace of mind. I am leaving for Destin in just two weeks and need to have confidence in this.

Has anyone seen a similar problem? Any suggestions on where the likely culprit may be. I can testify that whatever is wrong, it is pretty steady. The panel in the trailer doesn't seem to have any problems.

Reverie


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

Did you try plugging anything else into the house outlet to see if it tripped the GFI too?
Could be a problem with the house. I was gonna say it could have some water in it, but it hasen't rained for awhile down your way.

If the house outlet checks out ok, turn off all the breakers in the trailer panel and try plugging in.
If you can plug in without tripping the GFI when all the trailer breakers are off, then the problem is in the trailer.
Starting with the main 30 amp breaker in the trailer, turn them on one at a time and you will find which one is causing the problem.


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

I tried to hook up my camper to a drop cord before I ran the 30 amp service. Eventhough it did not pop the breaker in the house, it did start popping the curcuits in the camper and also drained the battery. One of the problems with running off of a drop cord is voltage lost. Check voltage at the plugin.

Another problem I have come up against at a couple of camp sites is an old tired breaker that will trip out at a lot lower load than that which it is rated. So even if you have a 20 amp breaker, it might be tripping at 10. Only wat to figure it out is to again put a curcuit tester on the plug in to make sure it is hooked up right and physically check it to make sure connections are tight.


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

Some good starting points menationed already.

1 - test the voltage coming in
2 - quality and length of your extention cord
3 - Plug in yout TT into another outlet

Thor


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Nick,

Are you tripping the GFI and the circuit breaker?

I have had intermittent issues with tripping the GFI in my garage circuit, but have never tripped the breaker. If you are doing that, you have a short somewhere. If it's like me, and just the GFI, I will look forward to hearing what you find! Mine sure has me stumped!

Try plugging into a non-GFI outlet in your house, and see what happens. I do that in mine, when the GFI circuit is acting up, and it works fine. Also, I have never had an issue at a campground.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

PDX_Doug said:


> Nick,
> 
> Are you tripping the GFI and the circuit breaker?
> 
> ...


Doug, It could be that your GFCI plug itself is going bad. I've had to replace gfci outlets in the past because they went bad.

Regards, Glenn


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Reverie said:


> I went through the trailer and made sure everything was turned off and tried again. Same result.
> Reverie


Water heater is turned off at the breaker as well at the converter panel/fuse panel? That draws alot of amps and will trip our 15 amp GFI in the Garage but won't trip the 20amp non GFI. Also your not running the AC are you. I'm sure not but just checking.

Also our Garage GFI also feeds into our basement. Might want to find out what else might be plugged into that circuit. Anything else I'd swap the GFI for a quality unit. The ones homebuilders put in aren't know to be the best quality.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Bill.


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

Upon the advice of the esteemed knower of all things electrical, Tommy (aka "OShields") I tripped all of the breakers in the OB and tried hooking it up again. Pop goes the GFI. Pop goes the breaker in the house. "Rats" says the owner...

I examined the power cord and it appears OK along the length. The end appears normal and undamaged. I have tried different GFI receptacles at the house, on different circuits and it pops both the GFI and the house circuit breaker on both.

Because I have tripped all the OB circuit breakers I believe I have isolated the water heater.

I hooked the trailer up to a 30 amp service at a nearby campground and everything works right.

The trailer has worked reliably before on the 15amp circuit at the house, using the same drop cord and adapter.

The air conditioner is definitely Off.

I feel clueless...

Reverie


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

There is no way you should pop a 15 amp circuit breaker with nothing on and especially with all trailer circuit breakers off. Sounds like a direct short I would start with the power cord and disconnect the wires from the terminals and make sure there is no continuity between the hot and neutral or ground. Now if the cable is OK then check the terminals and the buss make sure nothing had shorted there. Do a good visual inspection. Do you see any sparks when you plug it in? If you have any current going down the ground lead it will trip the GFI but should not trip the circuit breaker. I use a GFI tested all the time and I have never had a GRI trip and the circuit breaker too unless the circuit breaker is a GFI breaker but a GFI socket should not be connect to a GFI circuit breaker.

Check things out and keep us posted.

Bill


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## W4DRR (May 17, 2005)

Nick,

A few rambling thoughts.....

1. Have you measured each pin on the trailer's plug to each other pin with an ohmmeter to verify a hard short at the input? (this is assuming ALL the breakers are off on the breaker panel in the Outback)
2. A question for someone more intimately familiar with the WFCO converters: do they have surge protection on the input ahead of the breakers? If they do, it could have failed. 
3. On my 23RS, the converter is directly below a drawer. It is possible for something to fall out during travel, and Murphy's Law would dictate that if it were metal it will lodge on the AC terminals of the converter.
4. Now this is a stretch....If your hot and neutral are swapped on the outlet you are plugging into, AND there is a short in the trailer wiring between neutral and ground, the current will bypass the breaker in the trailer (even with the breaker open), but will pop the GFI and breaker at your house breaker panel. Plugging into an outlet that is not swapped, everything may appear to work normal.

Again, just some things to ponder. 
If you haven't resolved this by the weekend, I can always drop by the Casa de Nick, if you like, and provide another set of eyes, or hands, or at least moral support, since you are under the gun to get this fixed before Topsail. I also have a good Digital Multimeter, clamp-on amp meter, Variac transformer (useful for locating shorts sometimes), etc.

Bob


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

I will bring the OB to the house on Saturday to do further Troubleshooting and some loading. Any and all advice or help is welcomed. Bob, if it isn't too far out of your way, I would appreciate the help. I'll supply the beverages (adult and otherwise)...

Thanks,

Reverie


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## 04SUPERDUTY (Jul 3, 2006)

on my OB on the side where the power cord comes into the trailer there is a small access panel inside the storage area so you can get to where the cord is stored. inside that there should be a junction box where the power cord is spliced into some 10/2 wire(orange in color). you chould check the wires nuts there and see if everthing is all right. next up is the main circuit panel inside your trailer. on my 5er you remove a drawer above the panel and you can get easy acess to the rear of the panel. you now you will be able to check the other end of the 10/2 wire and see if anything is loose where it attaches to the main breaker. if you have a digital multi meter you can check the resistance like was said before, and you will be able to hopefully locate where your problem is.
if you are constantly tripping a GFI, there has to be a problem, either a hot to ground or neutral to ground. a GFI, like the name implies only senses a current loss to the ground, not between the hot and neutral. something to keep in mind, a GFI will not always trip and save your butt. 
the more i think about it it sounds like you might have a slight short, enough to trip a 15 amp breaker but not a 30 amp.


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

04Superduty has hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, I did not read your posting until I came on tonight to post this update...

W4DRR (Bob) came over today and we attacked this problem with meters. Seems logical. We deduced that the water heater element draws a heck of a lot of amps (12) when it runs. We Also checked all the obvious suspects but interestingly, we weren't popping the breakers with any regularity. In other words, I get an expert here and the issue quits duplicating.

We got to the point I felt like perhaps I was just worrying about nothing. Bob and Doris had lunch with us and after they left for home, I started cleaning the camper. I like to really clean the camper, especially with a big trip coming up. I took our canister vacuum cleaner out to the trailer and started cleaning every nook and cranny. I use my drill driver to take off panels and clean inside the hard to reach places. This time I took the access panel off so I could see what kind of gunk might have accumulated from the power cable being stored. I took that access panel off and started sucking up all the construction debris left behind by Keystone. At some point I must have jostled the orange cable coming in because it popped the GFI on the house.

I tried opening all the breakers in the trailer, then resetting the breaker in the house. This went fine but when I hooked up the cable again it popped again. Now I was really perplexed because nothing should have been drawing current but something was definately pulling some amps because as I hooked up the cable a big spark popped.

I spoke with Tommy (O'Shields) and we talked about the possibility to the cable end was bad. It was a little beat up and there was some evidence of melting but nothing really recent. I went ahead and replaced it with a new "Gorilla Connector" (which doesn't fit into the existing hole. I'll have to figure that out tomorrow). When I went to hook that back up to the GFI on the house another huge spark erupted and this time it smoked the GFI.

Now I'm really worried. In my earlier post I mentioned going to a park and hooking up a 30 amp circuit and everything worked fine. I took that as evidence that perhaps I was overreacting. Now I am sure I was right in the first place and despite the insistance of the technician at Campingtime RV, there was a definate problem.

I replaced the GFI with a new one. POP!

I replaced the drop cord with a 30 amp drop cord. POP!

I disconnected the wire and went back to the access panel I was in earlier. As soon as I took the cover off the box where the power cable connects to the trailer wiring, I spotted a bad connection.

Here is what I saw...










Note the large arcing damage on the wall of the box.










Here is some of what I removed during the repair. Note the melted plastic and scorched wire.

I truely shudder to think of what would have happened when we set up down at TopSail and started the AC.

Thank you to everyone for your help, your advice and your encouragement. I am trained to work with electronics but this one bit me pretty good. I owe a HUGE thanks to Bob and Doris for coming over and helping me through this. They couldn't get reservations for TopSail but they were concerned we might miss it, so they took the time to help. They are truly good people and great Outbackers. Thanks to Tommy for his advice and counsel.

I will sleep a whole lot better now.

Reverie


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## W4DRR (May 17, 2005)

Nick,

Glad you finally got to the bottom of that problem! I'm sure that is a relief with Topsail now only 6 days away. So have you re-wired the flaky connection yet, or will it have to wait until you can get some more wire, etc.?

Bob


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

I spoke with Tommy right after I found this and he advised to cut away the brittle, melted part and see if I had enough to make a good connection. I did it and by 11 pm I had AC voltage back in the trailer. I surmise that what was happening was every time I stepped in the trailer, it moved the position of the wires, just slightly. Sometimes they would touch the wall of the box and trip the breakers.

Reverie


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## kjdj (Sep 14, 2004)

I'm such an idiot! This issue was posted back in 2004.

I caught mine early. The main AC connections came from the factory very loose. Loose connections make lots of resistive heat.
I also found one of the breaker connections also loose.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Reverie said:


> 04Superduty has hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, I did not read your posting until I came on tonight to post this update...
> 
> W4DRR (Bob) came over today and we attacked this problem with meters. Seems logical. We deduced that the water heater element draws a heck of a lot of amps (12) when it runs. We Also checked all the obvious suspects but interestingly, we weren't popping the breakers with any regularity. In other words, I get an expert here and the issue quits duplicating.
> 
> ...


Good deal, glad you found it at home and able to fix it. I guess this is why they say the first step to troubleshooting it a good visual inspection.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Nick,

Glad to hear you got it all sorted out. Well done!








Now I know where to start looking on mine.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

Doug,

So many people have experienced this I wonder if it wouldn't be prudent to suggest everyone take a look at it? My problem had to have existed for a while before it manifested itself and others report the same sort of slow degradation. It is easy to check, just use a screw driver and a flashlight. I'd be happy to document the exact process on the 28BHS.

Reverie


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Reverie,

I'm just a little confused as to where the box is? I check all the connections on the main panel twice a year, as I think the road vibrations can loosen anything over time, but I don't remember seeing a box of that sort near the converter panel with all the breakers on it.

Is that box located where the shore line enters the trailer?

Tim


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## bentpixel (Sep 2, 2006)

Reverie,

Good work on finding the short. Looks like a job well done.



> I truely shudder to think of what would have happened when we set up down at TopSail and started the AC.


Just wanted to note that all of the safety devices (GFI and breakers) were in fact failing to a safe mode. Granted it would be a PITA to setup camp and have the electricity go out, but no one would get hurt. For myself you story demonstrates the reason to test the camp power outlet. Thanks for your story. Again, congratulation on the repair.









Scott


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## aplvlykat (Jan 25, 2004)

Tim, that is where it is at. The power cord goes into the junction box and from there it goes over to the power center. So it will be in the compartment where you push the cord into the TT. Kirk


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## 04SUPERDUTY (Jul 3, 2006)

wwoo hoo, i was right, time to go get my wife and show here that she is not the one who is always correct.








glad you found the problem and no real damage was done.


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Hey Rev - I'm a little slow. Please explain exactly where you found this. Thanks


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

On the 28 BHS, remove the access panel that is located just OUTSIDE of the bathroom door, on the right as you face the door, and below the wardrobe and drawers.










Look below the place marked "Ward". There are four screws you remove and the panel pops right out. Be sure to use a flashlight and you might want to bring a vacuum cleaner because that area is filthy with construction debries.

I hope this helps...

Reverie


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Thanks! I have yet to go poking around in there, but will now since I have been yanking on that power cord for 3+ years now. May be time for a tidy/tune up


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