# No Tow Mirrors



## jnk36jnk (Mar 9, 2004)

While at Ft Stevens, Or. a couple of weeks ago, we ran into a couple with a brand new 25 RSS. On the way down to the coast from Portland, a State Trooper pulled in behind them, not seeing any mirrrors sticking out past the side of the TT, he pulled them over and gave them a ticket for $141.00. They are now buying a set of McKesh mirrors for $150.00 or so, that plus the ticket makes for pretty expensive mirrors. The tow vehicle was a Ford Explorer


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Ouch expensive lesson.

I do hope you directed them over to the Outbackers!


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

Welcome to the "Peoples Republic of Oregon". They treat construction zones as money pools. The state considers it's residents and visitors too ignorant to pump their own gas and have put in place the "High School Drop-Outs Full-Employment Act" otherwise known as the "Fuel Dispensing Attendant" rule. If you need gas and can avoid Oregon, good for you. Oregon, the state too busy to make sense...

Reverie

PS: Someday I hope to return but I think I'll wait until a few things change. Maybe they don't want me.


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## Mac (Mar 26, 2004)

Reverie

In NJ you cannot pump your own gas either. Go figure??


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

But I pay less $$ per gallon in NJ then anywhere else in the Northeast, so I don't mind having full service. Went to Cape May last week, paid $2.02 at home, and $1.77 in Cape May. Most expensive price I saw in NJ that weekend was $1.86, on Rt. 46 in Ridgefield, NJ. When I got home, the price was up to $2.06 Fill up cost me $60.00???? I remember when I could fill up my tank for less then $10, but that was a long, long, long time ago.


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## jnk36jnk (Mar 9, 2004)

sunny Hi there, Just finished reading this post and must say I believe this WEbsite is the greatest but would encourage everyone to resist making somewhat personal statements bashing things that might offend others. Keep in mind please that there are a lot of folks who might have opinons different from yours and so , take a few minutes to consider exactly what it is you are saying and try saying it in the least offensive manner possible just to 'be nice' sunny . I know for a fact that the person who initiated this line was concerned that people make certain they have adequate mirrors for safety's sake. However one feels about a particular state certainly has no bearing on nor relevance to that subject. That said, Y-Guy, we certainly did encourage those folks to look us up on this site. jodi


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Hey we all learn expensive lessons, mine was with a tree and my Outback.

The score is Tree 1 - Outback/Steve 0


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

Full service gas? Hmm. There aren't many around here. Probably because you can't pay people enough money to pump your gas when it's -30 degrees F! 

Good towing mirrors are a must. It's tough enough to tow a big trailer, but to not have tow mirrors....it's an accident waiting to happen. That expensive ticket may have been bad news to them, but it may have saved an incident later on. (that's a pretty big fine, however)

My Nissan came with extending tow mirrors, which are really convenient. The bottom portion has a separate, wide angle mirror. That thing really opens up the blind spots behind you, and adds much more to your safety factor. Too bad more trucks out there aren't coming with mirrors like that. (except heavy duty)


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## illinoisboy (Jun 11, 2004)

Thats what I love about this forum, great advice with a sense of humour. Way to go guys.


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## KellerJames (Jan 19, 2004)

There are states that don't allow a person to pump their own gas??? WOW. I can't think of any stations in this part of the contry that have "High School Drop Out Full Employment Fuel Despensing Attendants".


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

You know though here on the left coast I've lived in Oregon, Washington and even the People's Republic of California and the prices in Oregon are no cheaper or more expensive than any other state. I don't know the amount of taxes, but I know for some of the seniors its still a nice service. The Oil companies have tried for years to change that law to no avail. Much like with Coors beer fought and fought to allow Coors in the state. Since it wasn't heat pasteurized it was illegal. Then what happens? They get in an the Microbreweries take over!!!! mmmm good beer!

How's that for off topic!


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

Ahhhhhh...beer is never 'off topic!'


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## chetlenox (Feb 3, 2004)

"People's Republic of Oregon"

<snicker>









Chet. (Oregonian)


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## shake1969 (Sep 21, 2004)

The Tulsa paper recently reported that Quik Trip (regional convenience store chain) lost about $5 million dollars in drive off, no-pay gas sales last year. *Bet an attendant would've lowered that considerably. * Be advised, all Quik Trips now require pre-pay or pay at the pump, no more pay inside after pumping. It's a shame, but I (and all other law abiding customers) paid for that stolen gas.

Back to the topic:

I'm sorry in advance if I upset someone with my view but here goes; People, a guy with no tow mirrors should have been fined ten times that. Think about it, there is no excuse for running around endangering others.


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

While I don't condone the towing of a trailer without towing mirrors, they are not required by law in all states. CT does NOT require extended vision mirrors while towing (check my signature, I have 'em). Of course, there is no mandatory helmet law for motorcyclists over the age of 18 either. Perhaps the same folks that wrote the no mirror law fell off motorcycle with out a helmet.

I of course don't condone the riding of motorcycles without helmets either. I guess that comes from 12 years worth of MC accidents as a paramedic. Never saw one without a brain bucket live.

Tim


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

I wonder how the dealer fares in all this? Seems a dealer shouldn't be letting "us" drive off without the proper safety equipment either. I know mine asked if I had mirrors, of course they wanted me to go shopping at their store lol.


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## bassplunker (Dec 2, 2003)

You know, I lived in Springfield, Oregon for two years in the mid 70's (I still daydream about fly fishing the McKenzie). Anyway, I go up there a lot because my brother has lived there for 30 years but I still forget about the 'no self serve' law. It's funny to see the panicked attendant run up and grab the gas nozzle out your hand. Come to think of it, it was Oregon where I got the only ticket in 34 years of driving. 33mph in a 25mph. I guess they needed the money for theirr world renowned welfare system







.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

I have paniked a few attendents in OR as well. They don't seem to have a sense of humor. I was told that they can get in big trouble and pay big fines for not pumping the gas. Has something to do with all those nasty carcenogins. I guess it's ok if the attendant gets cancer, but not so good if you do.

I have a son going to college in Pasadena, so we make the trek often down US 95. I always turn the wheel over to daughter for the couple hundred mile run through Jordan Valley and Burns, OR. I just can't stand going 55 mph on a flat-out straight hunk of desert. Particularly where ID and NV on either side of the same desert have the speed limit at 70 mph. Drives me crazy, but the tickets in OR are really large, so you best obey.


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## shake1969 (Sep 21, 2004)

In Oklahoma, 70 is the upper limit on most freeways and most rural divided highways.

But if you pay to ride on the turnpike, 75! Funny how the tax road is the fastest. Not unusual to see cars at 100+ on the TP. Our own little auto-bahn.


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## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Comming back from dropping off the TT at the dealer to get a couple fixes before we park it, we came a cross a Porche that was off the road on its top with a lot of turf and dirt on the underside. Looked like the firefighters were just running up to the car when we went past. There were 3 or 4 BIG and DEEP divits across the field to where the car was laying. Speed kills.


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

Actually, we can still pump and then pay inside at QT's in Georgia. I seriously doubt 5 million would cover the cost associated with employing enough people 24 hours a day to dispense gas at a service station with 24 gas pumps so the loss would still be on the gas-dispensing side rather than the gas-thief side. Gas prices are usually more impacted by gas taxes in a given state. If you factor in the costs associated with employing a pump-jockey the price goes up about fifteen cents a gallon (Dept. of Labor statistics, not mine).

Oregon is indeed an interesting and beautiful place but they definately place a premium on out-of-state visitors. Try staying in the Portland area and paying their hotel and rental car rates. Those prices reflect a hefty premium to the state. Politically it makes great sense, soak the non-voting out-of-staters. From a business standpoint it makes no sense as we are about to cease doing business with one of our longtime vendors because of the costs associated with doing business in Oregon. It's too bad because it is a beautiful state.

Watch out for their police and state police as they make a sport of nailing someone for speeding in a work zone. Now we all agree that speeding in a work zone is bad but the state is practically covered in work zones and they are seldom actually working in the zone. It tends to lull people (Oregonians and Out-of-Staters alike) into a false sense of complacency. Their speed creeps up and BAM! have a speeding ticket.

As for the person taking someone to task for "state-bashing"... It's not personal, it's business.

Reverie


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## MFamily (Sep 8, 2004)

BigBadBrain said:


> Comming back from dropping off the TT at the dealer to get a couple fixes before we park it, we came a cross a Porche that was off the road on its top with a lot of turf and dirt on the underside. Looked like the firefighters were just running up to the car when we went past. There were 3 or 4 BIG and DEEP divits across the field to where the car was laying. Speed kills.
> [snapback]17234[/snapback]​


I guess travel mirrors on a Porche makes them go airborne eh? What is the tow capacity of a Porche?


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## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

I think it was towing a fifth wheel but I couldn't say how much it might have weighed.









I'm now using McKesh mirrors from Hensley. They work VERY well. I was initially concerned about the time it would take to put them on and take them off - no need, my son (13) can do it in about 30 seconds for each side. Not as nice as those electrical slide out mirrors but... They look kind of odd but I'm glad I got them and you CAN see the cop behind you - had one follow me for a while on the freeway. He finally pulled past but was looking me over as he went by. Not sure why but he seemed pretty interested (could be the Outback to tell the truth).

I tried the Tow-n-see mirrors but they didn't work on my rig. The Expedition EB model has mirrors that move independently of the mirror cowl and when the Tow-n-see mirrors were attached to the mirror surface, I couldn't adjust the mirrors to let them see behind me. The edge of the Expedition mirror cowling hit the bar the Tow-n-see mirror is attached to and couldn't be moved far enough to let me see straight back along the trailer.


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## shake1969 (Sep 21, 2004)

Okay, $5MM a year, @5.15/hr, assuming 24hr coverage would be 111 employees or so. Until you back out employer's FICA contribution and benefits, if any. Actually 333 each 8 hour employees, I guess, for round the clock coverage. More than that, to keep people under the 40hour overtime limit. So it's more like 600 employees. IF, of course, my math is right. If I keep gaining jobs with my math, I may run for president!

I'm sure QT has more than 111 stores, though. And I'm sure that if attendants were the cheapest way, they would've done it by now. So I agree on that fact.

Either people need to steal more gas to make up for the overage of store locations to allow for the extra workers needed, or gas needs to go up in price. I think both are happening.

I'm glad for the pump cards. I hate to see the bottom feeders gaining $5million+ on me every year.


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

Those are actually some pretty acurate calculations. My issue is that it is "makework" that is, in the end, non-productive. If we want to create a jobs program why not pay people to maintain the parks or assist teachers? I absolutely hate being forced to pay someone to do something that I do quite expertly almost every day. And it isn't like it is a time saver because they can't pump it in any faster than I do. I especially dislike driving up to a service station in Oregon and handing the attendent my credit card. He swipes my card AT THE PUMP and then pumps my gas.

In Georgia if you are elderly or infirm you can request assistance from the station attendant and they will gladly assist you. It is not as though we have legions of elderly folks wandering around unable to get their tanks filled.

It just strikes me as silly. Of course I should recognize silly since I am ranting about socialism on a forum about tow mirrors.









Reverie


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## shake1969 (Sep 21, 2004)

In MY administration, everyone will be entitiled to a minimum wage paying job of some kind!









All parks will have an attendant to jack up your rig.


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## lukn2doit2 (Jun 4, 2004)

OK... so if the state trooper is following to close, then who gives him a ticket?
I love laws that are subjective and interpertavie - not exact.


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## shake1969 (Sep 21, 2004)

Always try to speed up to keep a proper distance between your vehicle and a trooper.

NOBODY gives tickets to troopers, nor will the laws ever change to apply to them, on or off duty. That's just one of the perks of being one, I guess.

BTW, on a totally unrelated note, I just heard on TV that a Hummer has a top speed of 97 mph.


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Military, H1 or H2?


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

The HUMMER is no match for the mighty TITAN!


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## shake1969 (Sep 21, 2004)

Must've been the H2. It was on some "performance truck" show.


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## Ga Camper (Sep 16, 2004)

A question, if I may, of those of you using the McKesh mirrors from Hensley. Do they leave scratches or marks on your door? I was wondering if they damage the clear coat or paint?


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## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Ga Camper,
I was worried too but I was out of options. When I got the mirrors, I was dubious about the whole thing but when I put them on it was clear that the amount of pressure on the door panel was slight. There is some but not much. The pad on the foot of the brace is about a half inch thick soft foam rubber and if you tension the mirror right, there is little pressure on the door. I'll try and post some pictures this week.

On and off is a breeze by the way.

Brian


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## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

Ga Camper said:


> A question, if I may, of those of you using the McKesh mirrors from Hensley. Do they leave scratches or marks on your door? I was wondering if they damage the clear coat or paint?
> [snapback]18385[/snapback]​


Not so far, and I've had them on and off around 40 times this summer. I'm wipe off any excess dirt with my finger (hi-tech) when installing them. It's not the pad that will scratch, it's the dirt between the pad and the paint. Keep it clean, and it should be fine.

Kevin P.

P.S., why would anyone WANT to tow without extended mirrors? I did it once, and never again!


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## Ga Camper (Sep 16, 2004)

> P.S., why would anyone WANT to tow without extended mirrors? I did it once, and never again!


I agree. I use Tow-N-See now but they just don't give you what you really need to be safe.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2004)

shake1969 said:


> Must've been the H2. It was on some "performance truck" show.
> [snapback]18191[/snapback]​


Just like the chevy trucks, that is the speed at which the computer is programmed to shut down the fuel pump.
A feature that can be reprogrammed I might add.


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