# Tv ????



## dmnmcutler (May 12, 2008)

O.K. so we are looking at buying an 08 30QBHS and after reading some of the posts about TV I am afraid. We have an 07 GMC Sierra Quad Cab. It has a 5.3 engine but the smaller axle, I think it's 3.42? We spoke with GMC and were told our towing capacity is 7200 and I have been told you are supposed to stay 1000 pounds under that which puts us at 6200. The Outback we are considering wieghs 5975 dry. With that being said will we have issues towing this? We are planning to upgrade our rear axles down the road but not at first. Any suggestions?? Thanks.

Melissa


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

Dry weight doe's not include battery(s) or propane or WD hitch. I have 2 batterys @ 88lbs each + [email protected] of propane + the WD hitch @ 250lbs added up to 534lbs. And thats not including cloths or food, beer/drinks, chairs and the dog stuff. James


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## dmnmcutler (May 12, 2008)

Yes, I get that part. Isn't that why you are supposed to be under 1000 pounds? I was told that you give yourself that 1000 pounds for all that stuff plus your body weight's ect? If that's the case at 5975 we should have a couple of hundred extra pounds right? Sorry, I am new to all of this and I am taking in what every one tells me. Thanks.

Melissa


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

Yes thats right. Sometimes people forget to include it and think it's part of the dry weight. http://www.keystone-outback.com/?page=deta...mp;model=30QBHS .From the Keystone OB site Dry Weight 6080, Carrying Capacity 1470, Hitch 765. If you added up the numbers of dry + 1/2 the carry capacty is 6815 
+ battery,lp,hitch. If you add stuff to the truck bed to carry and/or passengers it would over load your truck. James


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## dmnmcutler (May 12, 2008)

O.K., so now I am totally confused...one of our local dealer was trying to sell us the 30 BHDS which weighs more?? So what do we need to do to make this trailer work with our truck, or should I ask, what are our options besides buying a new truck?

Melissa


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

I think the trailer you're looking at is going to be too heavy for your truck. Following up on what James said, taking the dry weight of 5975, once you add propane, batteries camping gear, etc. my guess is you'll be pushing 7000 easy with a tongue weight around 1000. Those kinds of weights are going to overload your truck and make for an uncomfortable towing experience.

If you're going to keep your truck looking at a smaller trailer would be a good idea.

Some salesman don't always have your safety in mind, doing your homework is the best way to make a wise choice which is what you're doing.

Mike


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

Go with a smaller TT. I started out with a 1995 diesel tahoe with a max tow weight of 7500lbs our TT a 03 25rss dry weight is 4655lbs witha carry capacity of 1345lbs and hitch weight of 440lbs with 250lbs of WD hitch and 176 for the batterys and 108 of lp for a total of 6534lbs. We have two dogs that weigh in at 110lbs each added to the truck which brings down the amount of weight you can carry. You can not go by max tow weight only. You need to use tow weight + the weight in the truck and in the box from the GCVW Gross Combined Vehicle Weight. You can find the numbers for your truck near the drivers door pillar. This will tell you the weight of each axle front/rear how much you can put in it and how much to tow before the truck is overloaded. James


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)




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## dmnmcutler (May 12, 2008)

A smaller trailer would be fine but I do not like the slide out queen beds and we need the quad bunks so what are my options considering these factors? I am not familiar with the older Outbacks so I don't really know where to start. If we change out our axles on the rear of the truck that will give us another 1000lbs so would the bigger then work? I will look at our GCVW when hubby gets home with the truck. What does that number mean again? Thanks.


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## bbwb (Apr 4, 2008)

Way too heavy for a 3.42 ratio...I picked up my 23rs with a '06 GMC Ext cab, 310 hp 5.3L Z71 and 3.42 gears; and I struggled!









There were loaded semi's passing me on slight grades.

I wound up changing the gears out to 4.10's and now it is do-able with my trailer. The engine now just purrs along at 2500 rpm at 60 mph.

bbwb


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Even with the increased tow capacity after changing the gears what doesn't change is maximum amount the truck can weigh. That is the gross vehicle weight rating which you can find on the driver's door or door pillar.

By the time you add yourselves, fuel, camping gear, etc. and then the weight of the tongue of the trailer, your truck will most likely weigh more than the amount on the door sticker. That's not safe or good for the truck, it will wear out a lot faster if you are working it that hard when you tow. The other thing to consider is with a truck towing that close to or over it's limits it's not going to be pleasant experience to drive.

GCWR is the maximum weight the truck and trailer can weigh together.

Looking around for a smaller trailer that fits your needs would be the way to go IMO or move to a bigger truck if you really want the bigger outback.

Mike


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## Rob_G (Feb 16, 2006)

Melissa,

I agree with most people here. Although that trailer is light by most other standards, something of this size is really going hurt your vehicle.

I'd seriously consider looking at a different model. Salespeople aren't always looking in your best interest when trying to sell you something.


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## dmnmcutler (May 12, 2008)

Thanks for all of the advice...o.k. our GCWR is 12,000lbs. So how do we find out how much the truck weighs? Sorry for all of the ??'s, we are just so confused now. On the Specs where it states hitch 765, is that how much the hitch weighs? Also, what does carrying capacity mean? Trying to figure it all out. I really want the bigger trailer so we may have to go with another brand of trailer, something ultra lite maybe?

Melissa


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## dmnmcutler (May 12, 2008)

So I contacted my salesman today regarding the trailer we are considering...Here is what I wrote:

Chris,
> After a long weekend of chatting on the Outbackers forum I have come 
> to figure out that I don't think we can tow the 30foot Outback. We 
> had visited three seperate dealerships before finding you and all 
> three dealers said we could do this unit knowing the type of vehicle 
> we have. We have an 07 GMC Sierra Crew Cab with the 5.3 engine but 
> only the 3.42 axle ratio. My dad was planning to change out our rear 
> axles and go with a bigger ratio but it seems from all of the 
> outbackers it won't make that big of a difference. Can you please 
> give me your honest opinion on this? We have three little one's so we 
> want to be safe and we want our experience to be good. Our owner's 
> book states we can tow 7200lbs and our GCWR is 12000. Not sure what 
> all of these numbers mean but I thought we just had to keep the 
> trailers dry wait 1000 pounds under the 7200 which would be 6200 and 
> this trailer is 6080 but I am told from the outbackers that that 
> number doesn't include the weight of all of Oubacks options and the 
> hitch/tongue. I am so sad as I have my heart set on this trailer. 
> Please let me know your thoughts since you are now my salesman. Thanks.
> 
> Melissa

Here is his response:
I would say yes, there is no questions you can tow this, especially if 
you get the weight distribution and anti sway hitch. The Outback is 
desinged to be pulled by 1/2 ton vehicles. Call 1-800-35-HITCH and talk 
to Bob at Dan's Hitch. They are easily the biggest hitch installers in 
the Midwest. They are the hitch shop I use, tell them the weight of the 
camper and what you are towing it with and they can give you a correct 
answer. They aren't trying to sell you anything, they are an unbiased. 
They can give you some reassurance.

Thanks,
Chris

Thoughts please?? Thanks.

Melissa


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## Airboss (Jul 14, 2007)

I, too, fell into the "Sure, you can tow this trailer!" line when I was buying my 25RS-S. Take a look at this picture and see if you can tell me what's wrong here:










Although my TV was within all the limits, the wheelbase was too short to be safe and I had NO room for error when loading the truck and trailer. Bottom line is the dealer does not care about your family's personal safety, the safety of all the people that will be driving next to you, or even how this kind of load will ultimately kill your truck! Do not trust them! Do your homework (which, obivously, you are) and trust those of us that have already been down this road. We will try to give you the best advice we can, free of charge and unbiased.

There are several reasons why your truck and the trailer your considering is a bad combo, but the most important one is this: No matter what upgrades you do to the truck you will not be able to change the manufacturer's payload and GCVW ratings. Overload your truck and you open up the possibility of being held liable for any accident you are involved in whether it's your fault or not.

I would recommend either upgrading your truck or consider a smaller trailer. Good luck, and don't forget to let us know what you decide!


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

I cant say for sure about your situation but the numbers dont lie. 
Obtain the following....
GCVWR - Gross combined vehicle weight rating
GVWR - Gross vehicle weight rating
RAWR - rear axle weight rating
FAWR - front axle weight rating
Max Tow Capacity
Tongue Weight Capacity
Trailer Weight (Max limit of trailer)

We can then add some numbers up and add gear, people, etc... and give a better assesment.

Im in agreement with the people here. There is a difference between a truck being able to tow something and towing something safely / legally.

Good luck.


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## dmnmcutler (May 12, 2008)

So is the dealer just trying to make a sale? Can I actually tow this? Thinking maybe we could change our tow vehicle in a year or so but not right now. I would hate to buy a smaller trailer that we won't be happy with long term. I am so confused...can anyone help me figure out the weights please? My GCWR is 12000. The Outback is 6080 dry weight, carry cap. 1470 which I think we won't use all of that and the hitch is 765....Thanks.

Melissa


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

dmnmcutler said:


> So is the dealer just trying to make a sale?


Yes.

1 dealer out of 10 will tell you the truth. That line about the whole Outback series being made for 1/2 ton towing is just a bunch of bunk unless the 1/2 ton model they are thinking of is called Ram 3500, 3500HD or Superduty.







Did they mention the strain that those gears will put on your trans and that you should get a trans cooler and a gauge? Did they mention that those gears will have your engine way out of the fat part of the torque curve and it will be straining just to maintain speed? Did they mention overloading the payload rating...not to mention the GCVWR? Naw...but Outbackers will.

Outbackers saved me from making a huge mistake. We wanted and had our hearts set on a 28RSDS. Outbackers here convinced me that it was a bad choice for my TV. We reluctantly ended up with a 23RS and boy am I ever glad we didn't get anything bigger. We even tried to push our luck and go for a 25RS. We might have been ok with that slightly larger trailer but I need my truck to last a while longer. We pay off our vehicles and keep 'em around. Momma's in-town kid-hauler won't be paid off until this Fall then it will be time to save for a replacement TV for a year or two.

I have an '02 F150 Supercrew with 3.55 gears and the 5.4l engine which makes similar power to your 5.3l. It is clear that when towing our comparatively small 23RS that my truck is absolutely straining to the limit of its' capabilities at times. Brakes, trans, engine - all are pushed hard - maybe too hard lol. We started hearing a new noise coming from the trans tunnel area on our trip this weekend. Wife looked at me with her eyes wide open. I thought for a minute there she was thinking "WOW - that's a good lookin' guy sitting next to me" but as it turns out - it was my truck groaning as the engine tried to pull us up the Canyon road.







My truck pulling our 23RS is an "ok" experience. Not "good" - just "ok". We do "ok" on flat ground with no wind. Change any of that and it causes tow speeds to drop to maybe 45mph and mileage goes from bad to "you have got to be kidding" bad.

You will regret it if you do it and that salesman will have your money. I will even say that you will be unhappy even if you get 4.10 gears with that 5.3. If you had a new 1500HD with the 6.0 and 4.10's you would be better off. Get a 3/4ton and you will be happy. Get a smaller trailer or a bigger TV is my recommendation. Letting go of that "perfect trailer" dream was something that was very hard to swallow for us. We were very disheartened. However, the fun we have camping completely erases that memory. We don't even think about it anymore (well I still have big dreams of cruising the country with a giant 5'er but don't let momma know about that).

-CC


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## bbwb (Apr 4, 2008)

Agree with CC...With your truck set up even the 23rs will be a handful. You will need to change the gears to make the 23rs do-able. The weight distribution and sway controls will make the truck handle the trailer on the flats, but any kind of grade you'll be beating the dickens out of your truck. Check out my previous post...it has some of the numbers you are looking for....http://www.outbackers.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21480&st=0&p=286637&#entry286637
I know it stinks not being able to get the one you really want, better to be safe.

bbwb


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## dmnmcutler (May 12, 2008)

Thanks for all of the great advice. I can see the dealer is obviously not concerned with us as he still is saying our truck will pull the trailer with the proper weight distribution & anti-sway combo. Will someone please compute some figures so me so I have an idea what all of this means... I don't have all of the numbers as I don't have the truck right now but I do have some information...thanks.

GCVWR - Gross combined vehicle weight rating 12000
GVWR - Gross vehicle weight rating 6800
RAWR - rear axle weight rating
FAWR - front axle weight rating
Max Tow Capacity 7200
Tongue Weight Capacity
Trailer Weight (Max limit of trailer) 6080 dry weight
1470 carrying capacity (won't use all of it)
765 hitch
People weight 400 lbs


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

We also need to know the curb weight of the pickup and the payload capacity. Just taking a look at some numbers from the GMC site and making some assumptions about which truck you have, your curb weight is 5,148. You should get your truck weighed as you would have it ready to go for a trip, full of fuel, firewood, people, stuff etc. Since the people weight you list at 400, I am going to guess that ready to go, you can add another 400 from the "dry" weight of the truck. 800lbs. If we take the unrealistic number of a 765lb hitch weight, you are already at 1565lbs. Adding that to the curb weight gets you to 6713lbs - already right up against the GVWR. Bear in mind I used the unrealistic hitch weight listed at 765. Going down the road, you can bet that will be probably 1000lbs on that giant camper.

Your trailer weight of 6080 is another well known unrealistic number proven wrong time and again by people who have actually had their campers weighed. Keystone leaves off a large number of items from what they list for weights. You can add 1000lbs and start there. So your camper, when you are ready to start loading your stuff, will probably be at 7,000lbs or thereabouts.

Note that you are already past the GCVWR as well. Up at the top of the "Tow Vehicles and Towing" section, there is a trailer towing calculator pinned. Download that and plug in some real numbers paying attention to list every number in that spreadsheet. That thing was probably the major contributor to my realizing I was looking at way too much camper for my TV. You are looking at WAAYYY too much camper for that TV and the salesmen are smelling your $$$ headed their way. Don't give in. Run the numbers yourself and see.

-CC

Edit - once you plug in the numbers for your TV into that spreadsheet - you can easily start to plug in various campers and save the spreadsheets as comparisons to how your truck looks "weight wise" when hooked up to the different models. That spreadsheet helps make things very clear.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Let's see, I had a similar size TV (F150 Supercrew 5.4L and 3.55 axle ~8500 tow rating) and a shorter and lighter trailer. It definetly slowed down on hills, but it could tow it. The thing that got me was the incredibly heavy tounge wieght that put me at or over my payload capacity. Panic manuvers were not very comfortable, and if you got caught by a strong crosswind it could get a little scary. Not sway, but I have been pushed sideways out of my lane a couple times by a gust. Driving slowly in good conditions just required common sense.









As you can see by my signature, the inevitable upgrade to the 1 ton took ~1 year. I've only had it out once in a good cross wind, but it felt much better. Just driving around, there is a better feel since my truck now weighs more than my trailer.









You have to make the decision, but most of us on here with the bigger units have upgraded to 3/4 ton or 1 ton vehicles rather quickly and it wasn't because we wanted to spend more at the pumps.









Also, expect your fully loaded trailer to be at least 1000 lbs over the dry weight. Like other's said, you will add 500 lbs before you start packing... Good luck and keep posting if you have more questions....


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## dmnmcutler (May 12, 2008)

Thanks so much everyone for your kind words of encouragement. Not only am I new to all of this trailer business but I am also your average woman who knows nothing about trucks, trailer's, ect.. I don't even know how to give my car a jump none the less figure out all this stuff! O.K. so we know what we can't tow, so will all of you kind people guide me to what I can tow in terms of an Outback. I love the Outbacks and I think I may be willing to go down in size just to stay in this group which rocks!! Also, on the Rear Queen slides how does that work in terms of length. Say we are looking at the 23 RS which is 24"11", is that the total length with the Queen Slide out, or do you gain more length once that's out? Thanks.

Melissa


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

That would be with the slide in. I'd add about 5 feet with the slide out. I also upgraded to a 1 ton truck in one year. James


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## goneflyfishin (Jan 12, 2007)

We were also told by a salesman that we could pull most any of the Outbacks with our 1/2 ton chevy. Including a 28 footer!








We decided on the 23RS and while our 1/2 ton could pull it, it was stressful.
We finally upgraded last week after a year of worrying. We are so glad we did!

Good Luck & most of all, Be Safe!


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## skylane (Oct 28, 2007)

While I totally agree with the bigger is better as far a TV goes....common sense prevails...we tow a 23krs with a 2000 tundra....obviously it would be better with a dodge 3/4 diesel but we dont have one and our son wont let us borrow his.....with the tundra you cant do colorado on I-70 at the speed limit... but you can certainly get there....it is for sure harder on the toyota than on a big TV but again it will get you there. go slower up and slower down.... dont try the interstate when the wind is blowing a gale...etc....still I wouldnt tow anything bigger with ours...but it tows our just fine....wont be the first to the party....but I have enough money left to buy my own anyway...
just my 2cents


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## dmnmcutler (May 12, 2008)

skylane said:


> While I totally agree with the bigger is better as far a TV goes....common sense prevails...we tow a 23krs with a 2000 tundra....obviously it would be better with a dodge 3/4 diesel but we dont have one and our son wont let us borrow his.....with the tundra you cant do colorado on I-70 at the speed limit... but you can certainly get there....it is for sure harder on the toyota than on a big TV but again it will get you there. go slower up and slower down.... dont try the interstate when the wind is blowing a gale...etc....still I wouldnt tow anything bigger with ours...but it tows our just fine....wont be the first to the party....but I have enough money left to buy my own anyway...
> just my 2cents


 Thanks for the response. We have an 07 GMC Sierra Crew Cab with the 5.3engine but only 3.42 axle ration. We know we can upgrade our axle ration if need be. We are liking the 23 RS so would our TV work for this and it be safe and comfortable? If not, I am thinking the Outback idea is out and we will have to possibly consider the ultra lite Passport which is o.k. but not my first choice. Thanks.


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

Melissa,

I'm glad to see you're asking all of these questions before purchasing your trailer. It's far better to ask now than to find out that you truck is not up to pulling the trailer you just bought. Just looking at the numbers you posted for you current truck it looks like the biggest challenge is going to be staying below the gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 12,000 lbs. You might be able to do it with a 26RS like ours but you won't get the side slideout or walkaround bed. With 3 kids we've had no real problems with space but I will admit that sometimes I wish we had a regular queen bed. It's still much nicer than the popup we used to have though. Keystone doesn't make the 26RS anymore but if you can find a used one that might work for you. I haven't weighed mine but I've seen others here that have and they seem to come in around 5,500 to 6,000 lbs loaded for camping. If you packed lightly you could stay within your limits and still have a nice setup for your family.

Try not to get discouraged and keep asking questions and you'll find something that will work for you. This is a great place to learn the hard lessons from others who have already gone down the same path you're on.

Take Care,


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## skylane (Oct 28, 2007)

short of reading the whole thread again.....where are you located....if in the flats of the country....I would say its fine.....if in the mountainous part of the country....does the TV have a tow package?...tranny temps are our biggest worry, we dont have the tow package so we need to add a secondary cooler ....soon......just realize slower is ok dont need to stay up with the flow..thats why there is a have a right lane....I would think a 23rs would be ok...it should be lighter and with less tongue weight than a 23 krs....a good equilizer hitch w/sway control...good brake controller, prodigy...and then take your time and see the sights....
good luck


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## dmnmcutler (May 12, 2008)

MJRey said:


> Melissa,
> 
> I'm glad to see you're asking all of these questions before purchasing your trailer. It's far better to ask now than to find out that you truck is not up to pulling the trailer you just bought. Just looking at the numbers you posted for you current truck it looks like the biggest challenge is going to be staying below the gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 12,000 lbs. You might be able to do it with a 26RS like ours but you won't get the side slideout or walkaround bed. With 3 kids we've had no real problems with space but I will admit that sometimes I wish we had a regular queen bed. It's still much nicer than the popup we used to have though. Keystone doesn't make the 26RS anymore but if you can find a used one that might work for you. I haven't weighed mine but I've seen others here that have and they seem to come in around 5,500 to 6,000 lbs loaded for camping. If you packed lightly you could stay within your limits and still have a nice setup for your family.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mark, I appreciate your advice. What year did they stop making the 26 RS? I was really set on the walk around queen bed too and it's crappy that I had a good deal on the 30BQHS but if we can't tow it the deal doesn't do us much good, lol! I am not too big on not having a slide either as it seems like it may be a little bit tight with three little runs running around but as long as we are able to be together as a family, that's the most important part. I noticed you are here in CA, was it you that recommened Mike Thompson's to me? I was working a deal with them on the other outback but now will see what I can do with a 23 RS or maybe another model if I can find one.


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## dmnmcutler (May 12, 2008)

skylane said:


> short of reading the whole thread again.....where are you located....if in the flats of the country....I would say its fine.....if in the mountainous part of the country....does the TV have a tow package?...tranny temps are our biggest worry, we dont have the tow package so we need to add a secondary cooler ....soon......just realize slower is ok dont need to stay up with the flow..thats why there is a have a right lane....I would think a 23rs would be ok...it should be lighter and with less tongue weight than a 23 krs....a good equilizer hitch w/sway control...good brake controller, prodigy...and then take your time and see the sights....
> good luck


I am in CA, mix of terrain. Yes, we do have the Tow Package on the truck. We don't need to carry any toys so the 23rs would work for us. Thanks.


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## ramartina (Feb 16, 2008)

FWIW: I'm towing a 08' 23rs with an 8 year old Suburban 1500 in Ohio and KY. No huge hills. On relatively level roads, you don't even know the outback is hooked up behind us. Zero sway. Engine stays well under 2000 RPM's cruising at 55 mph. Slows down on long hills a bit, though. Not sure what our real loaded weight is, but our old half ton suburban with the tow package has handled it as well as I could have expected so far IMO. We did install the equalizer WD hitch and a husky brake controller.

FWIW II: we find the 23RS to be plenty large enough for our kids and their occasional friends. Sleeps 7 with ease.


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## bbwb (Apr 4, 2008)

Mellisa:
I think that you will be happy with the 23rs. I find that I can pull the camper (had to change gears out to 4.10) with a good deal of confidence. We have both the weight distribution hitch and the sway control and it works well. I do get a little wiggle while towing but that is due to the P rated tires vs using LT series tires. The next set of tires will be LT's.
From what you are describing for intended terrain, IMO you will absolutely need the gear change...been there, done that experience talking









bbwb


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## ramartina (Feb 16, 2008)

bbwb said:


> Mellisa:
> I think that you will be happy with the 23rs. I find that I can pull the camper (had to change gears out to 4.10) with a good deal of confidence. We have both the weight distribution hitch and the sway control and it works well. I do get a little wiggle while towing but that is due to the P rated tires vs using LT series tires. The next set of tires will be LT's.
> From what you are describing for intended terrain, IMO you will absolutely need the gear change...been there, done that experience talking
> 
> ...


What did you switch to the 4.10 from? Just curious. I'm running with 3.73 gears and I always like to hear other people's experiences.


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## bbwb (Apr 4, 2008)

Hi Tony:
I had to switch from the 3.42's. The whole process cost about $1,400 for the gears and the reprogramming of the computer.








bbwb


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Melissa - you will be much happier with the 23RS. We love ours. It is a great match for our tow vehicle, a great match for the State Parks that we typically go camping in (giant campers don't fit well), a great match for the varying amounts of people that camp in it (4-6) and brings to our family tons of fun. The nice thing about the Queen slide on Outbacks is that you can slide it back over things like stumps and curbs. Other rear queen slide models such as the discontinued KZ Frontier, could not do this due to the slide mechanism. We got our 23RS from Marci at Lakeshore RV. She is a great gal and the price blew away anything any local dealer would do. While we were camping last weekend, a family with a 21RS LE (stripped down version of regular Outback) asked me what I paid for my 23RS. The wife paled and her eyes grew wide when I told her. They paid many thousands more from the local dealer for their smaller, stripped down Outback. The wife seemed to be really mad that they didn't even get a double step - their camper just came with a single which made for a very tall first step into the doorway.

I would switch to 4.10 gears in your truck, get a trans cooler and get a trans temp gauge. You will be good to go for many miles of fun camping. You will be in *much* better shape with that setup as opposed to the 3.42's. I would have upgraded to 4.10's on my truck but, at the time, I couldn't justify spending so much money on a 80k mi. truck that I was going to replace in a couple of years. I wish that I'd had enough money at the time to do it. I looked into it but couldn't find a situation / price that I was comfortable with. Now with my truck past 100k - it makes even less sense to me. The 4.10's will make it much easier on your trans as well. Be sure that they include recalibrating your speedometer when you have it done.

I am happy to see that you are considering a setup that is appropriate for your tow vehicle.

-CC


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## shaela21 (Aug 16, 2005)

I have been lied to by salesman for years regarding towing. They all quote the dry weight, which is most cases is an estimate and im my opinion is not to be used in calculating tow weights. I always look at the GVWR of the trailer, and this is found on the sticker on the trailer. Then, look at what the truck can tow and ensure that the GVWR of the trailer is less then 10% of the the tow rating. Keep in mind that the tow rating of your truck does not include all the people and gear that you truck will carry. IMHO, a 1/2 ton truck is not meant to tow a 30 foot trailer, and any dealer that is telling you it is safe, is lying or very uneducated. Yes, you may be able to tow it, but on hills or emergency stopping, you may have problems. Plus I guarantee that you will be exceeding your tow rating, and that is just not safe. One of the guys here at work told me he can tow 6500 pounds since that is the number that is stamped on his hitch, but his truck is only rated for 5000 pounds. My hitch is rated for 16,000 pounds, but I know my 1/2 ton truck cannot go anywhere near that number.
My advice is to research the numbers and thier meanings, do the calculations and do not rely on salesman to tell you what you can tow. As soon as you leave the parking lot with the trailer, they cannot be held liable if you get into an accident due to overloading. I think they should be held liable and laws should be created to ensure that people who tow are given a certificate from the dealership that states that the trailer they bought can be safely towed with their vehicle. I know there is lots of logistics to this, but it should happen. Until then, we need to do the homework since it is our family in that vehicle, not theirs.

Sorry for the rant, but I get a bit steamed up when I know dealers do this, and are not being honest. Thanks for letting me vent.


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## dmnmcutler (May 12, 2008)

shaela21 said:


> I have been lied to by salesman for years regarding towing. They all quote the dry weight, which is most cases is an estimate and im my opinion is not to be used in calculating tow weights. I always look at the GVWR of the trailer, and this is found on the sticker on the trailer. Then, look at what the truck can tow and ensure that the GVWR of the trailer is less then 10% of the the tow rating. Keep in mind that the tow rating of your truck does not include all the people and gear that you truck will carry. IMHO, a 1/2 ton truck is not meant to tow a 30 foot trailer, and any dealer that is telling you it is safe, is lying or very uneducated. Yes, you may be able to tow it, but on hills or emergency stopping, you may have problems. Plus I guarantee that you will be exceeding your tow rating, and that is just not safe. One of the guys here at work told me he can tow 6500 pounds since that is the number that is stamped on his hitch, but his truck is only rated for 5000 pounds. My hitch is rated for 16,000 pounds, but I know my 1/2 ton truck cannot go anywhere near that number.
> My advice is to research the numbers and thier meanings, do the calculations and do not rely on salesman to tell you what you can tow. As soon as you leave the parking lot with the trailer, they cannot be held liable if you get into an accident due to overloading. I think they should be held liable and laws should be created to ensure that people who tow are given a certificate from the dealership that states that the trailer they bought can be safely towed with their vehicle. I know there is lots of logistics to this, but it should happen. Until then, we need to do the homework since it is our family in that vehicle, not theirs.
> 
> Sorry for the rant, but I get a bit steamed up when I know dealers do this, and are not being honest. Thanks for letting me vent.


I agree with all that you have said. I feel it's totally sad that many people go into these dealerships and are completly mislead. If you can't rely on the RV Dealers to know the correct calculations, who then can you rely on? I am so thankful for this group as without you all we would have made a huge mistake that would have been financially devasting to our family. Thanks again for everything, I think we are now going in the right direction and it's sad for the other's who are at these dealers paying a lot of money for something that will be unsafe for them and their family.

Melissa


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## bbwb (Apr 4, 2008)

Also, there is an extra load placed on the tow vehicle due to the frontal area of the camper (aerodynamic as a billboard).
bbwb


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