# Generator Question



## borntorv (Apr 13, 2004)

Okay all you electrical experts, I have what is hopefully an easy question to answer but I'm looking for confirmation. I purchased one of those Champion generators back when the post-rebate price was a mere $150. My purpose was to use it for tailgating. My brother helped me weld a removable rack on the back of the Outback. I plan to mount the generator to a piece of plywood then mount that to the rack on the OB. By doing so I won't have to mess around with straps, etc. to secure it.

My question is if I can safely use the generator to power the Outback while it's mounted on the rack (i.e. off the ground)? Obviously the on-board gen sets that come with motor homes aren't on the ground either but I've heard they are grounded to the chassis of the motor home. Do I need to take any specific steps in this regard or do I just point the exhaust away from the camper, fire it up and plug in? I've checked the owners manual for the generator but this issue is not addressed. I suppose I could just set the generator on the ground but with full fuel it weighs about 150# plus I then need to worry about some turkey stealing it.

Thanks in advance for your input,

Greg

PS - Is it okay to tow with a 1/2-ton? (kidding!!!!!!)


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

I have a carrier on the back of the OB that I have the generator mounted to. I have the locks go through the frame of the generator and the carrier. http://www.outbackers.com/forums/index.php...si&img=8049 . James


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

From an electrical perspective -- I would make DARN sure that the generator was grounded to something besides the trailer -- otherwise -- when something goes wrong and it has to use the trailer as a ground -- then allot of things in your life are about to become electrified and expensive to replace --

So if you must operate the generator off the ground and mounted to the trailer I would invest in a good grounding rod and grounding cable to attach to the generator and run directly to the ground (EARTH) itself --

or at least that's how we do it in the Army to all of the generators we have that are vehicle mounted and attached to trailers...

Personally -- and I may be just a little too safety conscious -- but I would mount my generator in such a way that it's NOT on the trailer for operation (sure you can tow with it up on the platform but once you get there remove it) -- I would think that the OUTBACK trailer would also pick up allot of generator vibration if its directly mounted to the trailer....

.02


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

The easy answer is no it does not *require *an independent ground. There is more to grounding then sticking a rod in the ground and the portable generators do not require Earth reference to operate safely.


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## hazmat456 (Jul 26, 2007)

my yamaha recomends it in the owners manual there is even a ground bolt to attach a wire to, never used it.


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## borntorv (Apr 13, 2004)

hazmat456 said:


> my yamaha recomends it in the owners manual there is even a ground bolt to attach a wire to, never used it.


Haz, your manual recommends grounding to the frame or to the earth?

Ghosty, I wondered about vibration as well but I've been in motor homes with generators running and not noticed anything. Guess I can test that. I just don't want to run a test and fry any electrical equipment.

Thanks for the comments gents.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

borntorv said:


> my yamaha recomends it in the owners manual there is even a ground bolt to attach a wire to, never used it.


Haz, your manual recommends grounding to the frame or to the earth?

Ghosty, I wondered about vibration as well but I've been in motor homes with generators running and not noticed anything. Guess I can test that. I just don't want to run a test and fry any electrical equipment.

Thanks for the comments gents.
[/quote]

Your comparring a Champion portable generator to an on-board $4k (so they say) genset. different animals. i have been doing some of this research myself on 5ers with onboard gensets. we were wondering what the vibration would be like. not bad at all with the onboard. id run it on the ground. i know i wouldnt want my Honda on my TT, too much vibes...


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## Rip (Jul 13, 2006)

Look at these!!!http://www.mikeholt.com/onlinetraining/pag...100202050_4.jpg http://www.mikeholt.com/onlinetraining/pag...100202050_2.jpg


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## hazmat456 (Jul 26, 2007)

borntorv said:


> my yamaha recomends it in the owners manual there is even a ground bolt to attach a wire to, never used it.


Haz, your manual recommends grounding to the frame or to the earth?

Ghosty, I wondered about vibration as well but I've been in motor homes with generators running and not noticed anything. Guess I can test that. I just don't want to run a test and fry any electrical equipment.

Thanks for the comments gents.
[/quote]
ground, a rod driven into the earth


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Mine has never been grounded. This is no vibration whatsoever..

Here is a link to some pics of what I done. Click

Carey


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## jozway (Jan 28, 2008)

Ground it to the frame. Your stab jacks will give you earth ground.


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## WACOUGAR (Dec 20, 2006)

Your all wrong. A PORTABLE generator requires no ground. 
IBEW L.U. 46
Electrician 26 Years


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

WACOUGAR said:


> Your all wrong. A PORTABLE generator requires no ground.
> IBEW L.U. 46
> Electrician 26 Years


No not everyone, Camper Andy also said no ground needed and I concur with both of you.


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## hazmat456 (Jul 26, 2007)

yamaha generator manual
page 6 and 7 tell you to make sure that you ground to the earth again I have never done this but I don't always follow instructions well


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## grock52 (Sep 6, 2008)

http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/electrical-li...ding-24575.html

Above is another site that responds to this question of grounding your genset, you'll notice by the response all things revolve around liability, my Kipor states you should/must ground the genset.
I worked for a large former Bell system company for 27+years and have been schooled on bonding and grounding methods. From my personal experience it makes sense to ground the metal frame of the generator to the trailer and also then to ground the whole thing to earth. Be aware electric power is like water, it finds the least resistant path.
Some typical problems'.... if the generator has a fault and energizes the neutral side without blowing a fuse or shutting down,or someone wired one of the plugs wrong on the gen set(it does happen), whomever touches the metal parts of the case of the generator will then place themselves in line for electrical release to earth. If anyone outside with bare feet,wet socks,even wet shoes,comes to the trailer and touches anything metal that is energized, or your lying under the trailer reaching up to fix something and touch metal parts,you/they will be a path for electrical release. 
When all is bonded and grounded to earth, this is the safest scenario, as this makes all parts of the Gen set/trailer,zero potential with Mother Earth. A post above suggested that the leveler jacks will ground out the frame,that depends on potential between the jacks and or the person, whichever is least resistance to ground will be the path. If you pad your jacks with wood or other, then you loose that grounding potential. If your lying in wet earth,your salty body is the most likely circuit!
That's why when all things are physically bonded together and grounded to earth, from start to end (Genset to Trailer to Mother earth) then potential is equalized and nothing gets fried.
Another thing to watch is when you plug in a non grounded electric cord or home made electric cord that has the power side and the neutral side reversed in a plug powering an appliance that is not double insulated,especially when outside, this will also cause trouble for someone touching the appliance and having feet or another part of your body touching mother earth,you again are the path. 
These situations will rarely occur in today's electric coded environment ,it did many times before polarized electric plugs and grounding standards, late 70's. Its like checking your lug nuts when you should, stats are your not going to have a problem, just that one odd ball instance when things happen.
Pounding in a ground rod everywhere you go will not be fun,just being aware of what could happen will keep you safe. For those that want to check for problems, you can buy a small voltage detector that tells you if something is energized by holding the small tester up to the suspected fault,you don't have to touch,just get close with the probe,if energized it will light up and sound off,can also be used to see if a plug in is live. Mine is a Greenlee GT-11 Voltage detector,about $15.00 at Lowe's/Home Depot or you can test (Old Lineman method)by slapping the metal case with the BACK of YOUR HAND, that way if it does shock you, your hand and arm will flinch back and away from the hazard. The Greenlee makes more sense. 
These situations also apply to your home and when on shore power. A fault can happen any where. I've personally been to travel trailer spaces where the polarity was reversed on the output plugs and yes it does energize the trailer frame!! Remember your metal stairs, if you've plugged in before you set them out, give them a little slap or probe before you commit to grabbing them. Just keep your guard up.....we RV'rs have allot to keep in mind to have fun,
be safe!
Hope this information helps - my 2 cents...


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

grock52 - good post but you need to understand the fact that even if you understand grounding and bonding, 99% of the readers of this forum and most others have no clear understanding of what is correct.

I have seen a 6 inch tent stake driven into sandy soil and the person then clip a wire from the generator to the stake and call it grounded. People must understand that if they really want to ground the generator the soil composition must be considered. Not a single person here will spend the time, energy or money to correctly earth ground the trailer and generator. Many will ask why not and the answer is there is ZERO need to do this once the trailer and generator wiring have been confirmed to have correct polarity for hot and neutral.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

grock52, Thanks for the post !! Taught me a lot !


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## grock52 (Sep 6, 2008)

In response to Camper Andy, yes most folks know just enough about all subjects to be dangerous. The more you know and understand a subject,hopefully when something does crop up you'll know what to do( The important point; when you don't know --- defer!!!). These trailers and TVs are subjected to much abuse, just rolling down the road, high winds, bumpy roads, ect. All aspects of our camping equipment need constant vigilance to keep them safe to use,tires,wheels undercarriage,structure,tow system, and yes electrical systems,ect. 
A fault in a generator, 3-way converter,wire coming loose inside a plug in,something falling off inside the gen set and causing the hot side to be connected the neutral or ground case,(Little Johnny dropping a pop top lid into vents of the gen set). Just being aware that anything can change at anytime,from any unseen circumstance, may not allow us to enjoy our time out. 
If you develop a routine to check things (list) as you start out,as you arrive, and as you put away, a great deal of the inconvenient things that happen will not slow us down, in fact save much more time for fun. So the brunt of my help here is - be aware; things are not guaranteed to work as they should,and possibly- probably be very dangerous. They do wear out/break down, its always up to us to keep them working/safe, by our efforts, involving help here in these posts, or your trusty dealer, to glean the most fun possible. 
I can tell by a good share of the posts from the wonderful folks on this site,part of the fun is learning about - how things work.....
Keep up the good work and enjoy!!
P.S. Yes,it has been fun,or maybe not,to see what some folks will do to demonstrate their interpretations (6" ground rod) of electric code,ect.....


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## jozway (Jan 28, 2008)

clicky here! This should clear it up.
JOE Non Union Electrician 16yrs (sorry vic I just had too)


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