# Towing With A Gps



## OutbackPM (Sep 14, 2005)

Recently we bought a Garmin c330 GPS and have used it in both the mini van and the truck. We are pleased with the way it works but when we hitch the Outback up it looses the signal from behind and struggles to work. On our last trip up I-71 towards Columbus we put it to the right and it worked but on the way back it just quit no matter whart we did.

Anyone else had the same issue?


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

I mounted my Garmin eTrex Legend on my steering column. It works perfectly from that position, doesn't block anything and rarely loses it's signal. Even when I tow it doesn't seem to struggle. Now, I also have an XM receiver with an antenna mounted on the roof and it loses signal if you just breathe on it.

Reverie


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## jgheesling (Sep 28, 2004)

I have the same Model Garmin I don't have any problems. I have a fifth wheel which really Blocks my rear view. I do mount it very High on the Windshield just under the rearview mirror. I was even in the mountains this past week and just had some spotty outage in deep valleys. I just haven't noticed it being that sensitive. How long have you had it??


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

I also have the same unit and have never had any problems with it. I would call Garmin and see what they have to say.

Gary


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

That's simple...Outbacks owners are so smart, they don't need a GPS.

...kidding of course, I love my GPS....


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

OutbackPM,

I can't really see how the Outback could have much effect on the signal your GPS is receiving, especially as you are not pulling a fifth wheel that is 'way up there'. It sounds to me like there may be an issue with the unit itself. One thing I do know, is that Garmin makes very good equipment, and this should not be an issue!

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## NobleEagle (Jul 8, 2006)

Check the manual and see if it says anything about being Outback specific. Maybe it is worse with a Jaco or a Zeppelin. LOL just kidding trying to







the mood. Good Luck.


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## bmxmom (Jun 3, 2005)

Hi,

We have the same GPS that you have. We love it and would literally be lost without it.








We have gone from South Florida to North Carolina in the mountains with a stop in Georgia and back without any paper maps. We went to Georgia a few weeks ago and just got back from camping/bmxracing in Sarasota, FL totally dependent on the GPS for directions. We lose signal sometimes, but the route is stored and comes back up with a few minutes. We have had no problems. I would also recommend that you contact Garmin. We have it mounted under the rearview mirror.

Anne


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## OutbackPM (Sep 14, 2005)

Thanks for all the info.

I did call the Garmin helpless line and they said get the antena and see what happens but thats about $100. I am wondering if it is to do with my location in Cincinnati. The satelites are stationary so the ones I pick up maybe at an odd angle from the truck when I head Noth East and South West. I do have it under the rear view mirror which is fine without the camper but not with.

FIRE44 you have the same truck so if it were something to do with that then we should be the same. You are on the right coast so that might be the difference. Do you know if the anti-glare/heat windows GM uses has an influence?

Does anyone know where I can fined a map of the satelites? A friends older unit gives a map of what it has locked to and it showed about 7 that it could 'see'.


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

OutbackPM said:


> Thanks for all the info.
> 
> I did call the Garmin helpless line and they said get the antena and see what happens but thats about $100. I am wondering if it is to do with my location in Cincinnati. The satelites are stationary so the ones I pick up maybe at an odd angle from the truck when I head Noth East and South West. I do have it under the rear view mirror which is fine without the camper but not with.
> 
> ...


The glass should be no problem. I use mine in the front windshield all the time and never lose signal.
and I'm in Lexington just south of Cincy.


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

The windshield shouldn't be any problem. The windshields that cause the problems have extra solar protection. I have had problems when using it in the older mini vans...Chevrolet Venture, Pontiac Montana vans....

Gary


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## tripphammer (Oct 3, 2006)

Your problem could be in the location of your GPS in the vehicle. I really wouldn't worry about how many satellites the unit is seeing. Generally when you lose one satellite you come into the zone of another. However you will find that in steep canyons and areas of heavy converage (i.e. trees) you may lose some accuracy or intermittent readings. You can always find the external antenna for less (considerably) at other sources. Click Here for one source.

I purchased one for my GPS and get much better accuracy and also much better reception.

Take Care,
Tripp


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## LarryTheOutback (Jun 15, 2005)

OutbackPM said:


> The satelites are stationary


The GPS satellites are NOT stationary with respect to the earth's surface. At approx 12,600 miles, their orbit is above low-earth (i.e. above the Interational Space Station, Shuttle, etc) but below the geosynchronous satellites such as those used for Satellite TV. This means that the satellites move slowly across the sky from the perspective of an observer on the Earth. The constallation is designed such that at least 4 (usually many more) are reasonably far above the horizon at any given time.

Most if not all Garmin units have a display you can call up that will show you where the satellites are in the sky above you.

Click here  for a good primer on GPS.


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

OutbackPM said:


> I do have it under the rear view mirror which is fine without the camper but not with.


I can't imagine why it wouldn't work with the OB in tow.....

I'm a novice on GPS, as I use the laptop with MS Streets and Trips GPS, but your OB shouldn't interfere when your unit is mounted on the windshield.

It doesn't read from behind you does it??









The GPS receiver that came with my MS S&T sticks to the windshield and works everywhere except under heavy foliage. It picks up at least 5-7 satellites at all times.

Steve


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

huntr70 said:


> I do have it under the rear view mirror which is fine without the camper but not with.


I can't imagine why it wouldn't work with the OB in tow.....

I'm a novice on GPS, as I use the laptop with MS Streets and Trips GPS, but your OB shouldn't interfere when your unit is mounted on the windshield.

It doesn't read from behind you does it??









The GPS receiver that came with my MS S&T sticks to the windshield and works everywhere except under heavy foliage. It picks up at least 5-7 satellites at all times.

Steve
[/quote]

I'm using the same setup as you are.
Where do you see how many sats it's picking up?


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

I'll have to play with it.....its been awhile since I used it.

Steve


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Folks,

Larry gave you a good thread on how to understand how GPS works. Since I was a Radio Frequency Engineer I can give you a few more hints.

1) It is entirely conceivable for you not to pick up satellites that are "behind" the vehicle. The satellite signal will get reflected away by the roof of the car or for that matter the Outback. As a hint notice how all of the new GM trucks have an antenna on the roof to receive XM satellite radio. Bottom line if you want to enhance performance of your GPS then get the antenna. All of the cellular companies use external antennas on the GPS they use, and they can't afford to be wrong.

2) WAAS isn't everywhere. WAAS stands for wide area augmentation system which allows the GPS to receive additional information via a seperate terrestial Radio System.It it my understanding that WAAS isn't widely available in areas other then coastal areas.

3) In most cases where there are any amount of hills or heavy foliage expect reduced GPS service especially without an outside antenna. When the GPS first starts up it syncs itself getting time of day information and comparing that info with how you setup the device. For example your location (North America), and what coordinate system your using. From that it lets you know what satellites are available and at what relative positions they are at in the sky. Although there maybe 7 satellites available 2 or even 3 are only on the horizon. You couple the effect of your GPS inside the car with foliage or hills and then your down to 4 or 5 satellites in a heartbeat. For the most part unless you live in Kansas in a cornfield you likely can see only 4, maybe 5 satellites. Loose 2 and you can only get coordinates. Loose 3 and your SOL. That is why the roof antenna is so important.

Mike C


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## LarryTheOutback (Jun 15, 2005)

NJMikeC said:


> 2) WAAS isn't everywhere. WAAS stands for wide area augmentation system which allows the GPS to receive additional information via a seperate *terrestial Radio System*.It it my understanding that WAAS isn't widely available in areas other then coastal areas.


WAAS _can _ work from a terrestrial source, but for consumer GPS devices the term usually refers to satellite-based WAAS. There are two geostationary satellites that transmit WAAS signals, one over the Atlantic, one over the Pacific. The Garmin GPS units that are WAAS equipped receive signals from these satellites. Our Garmin ETrex Legend successfully received WAAS signals from these satellites over most of the US during out cross-country trip.

Details here.

Of course WAAS doesn't give you more GPS satellites to track, it just helps refine your position once your GPS has established a position based on the GPS satellites.

As to where to put the antenna, on the aforementioned trip we used a puck-style antenna with our laptop. We velcro'ed the antenna as far forward on the dashboard as we could (right up against the glass). To my recollection we never lost satellite reception (including in the big rainstorms.

GPS Receivers vary in sensitivity. OutbackPM's unit may be out of spec or on the hairy edge. I remember we had to send our ETrex Legend in for a broken lanyard pin. While it was at Garmin they tweaked the sensitivity becuase it was marginally off spec. You mileage may vary.

Ed


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## OBXFanatic (Oct 17, 2006)

Katrina said:


> I do have it under the rear view mirror which is fine without the camper but not with.


I can't imagine why it wouldn't work with the OB in tow.....

I'm a novice on GPS, as I use the laptop with MS Streets and Trips GPS, but your OB shouldn't interfere when your unit is mounted on the windshield.

It doesn't read from behind you does it??









The GPS receiver that came with my MS S&T sticks to the windshield and works everywhere except under heavy foliage. It picks up at least 5-7 satellites at all times.

Steve
[/quote]

I'm using the same setup as you are.
Where do you see how many sats it's picking up?
[/quote]

We are using a Tom Tom 510 and don't have any problems. When it comes to navigation, it is right on with location and directions. I highly suggest getting this brand.

Tom


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Tom highly recomends the Tomtom.







Whoulda thought









Hope to get one of GPS's by next camping season

John


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## OutbackPM (Sep 14, 2005)

NJMikeC said:


> 2) WAAS isn't everywhere. WAAS stands for wide area augmentation system which allows the GPS to receive additional information via a seperate terrestial Radio System.It it my understanding that WAAS isn't widely available in areas other then coastal areas.


 I was wondering about this system and how it worked (thanks Ed for the good web sites). The spec for Garmin C330 says it has it. When I look through the set up pages there is one page that has GPS set up and the options are: NORMAL, OFF and WAAS.

I have it on NORMAL but I am now wondering if WAAS is NORMAL+WAAS. OFF obviously would be useless.

I am going to try again before I buy an antena but there sre no campling plans lined up yet.

Thanks to all for the input

David


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

Here's a bit of news from Friday:

SPACECRAFT SEPARATION! The U.S. Air Force's Global Positioning System Block 2R-16 spacecraft has been released from the Boeing Delta 2 rocket's third stage to complete this afternoon's launch from Cape Canaveral.

The $75 million satellite is bound for the Plane B, Slot 4 location in the GPS constellation to replace the aging GPS 2A-22 craft launched in August 1993.

GPS 2R-16 is the third in a new breed of updated craft built by Lockheed Martin. The modernized satellites transmit additional signals and feature improvements aimed at greater accuracy, tougher resistance to interference and enhanced performance for users around the world.

The advancements will provide the military with a more robust jam-resistant signal and enable better targeting of GPS-guided weapons in hostile environments. The new civilian signal removes navigation errors caused by the Earth's ionosphere.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

LarryTheOutback said:


> 2) WAAS isn't everywhere. WAAS stands for wide area augmentation system which allows the GPS to receive additional information via a seperate *terrestial Radio System*.It it my understanding that WAAS isn't widely available in areas other then coastal areas.


WAAS _can _ work from a terrestrial source, but for consumer GPS devices the term usually refers to satellite-based WAAS. There are two geostationary satellites that transmit WAAS signals, one over the Atlantic, one over the Pacific. The Garmin GPS units that are WAAS equipped receive signals from these satellites. Our Garmin ETrex Legend successfully received WAAS signals from these satellites over most of the US during out cross-country trip.

Details here.

Of course WAAS doesn't give you more GPS satellites to track, it just helps refine your position once your GPS has established a position based on the GPS satellites.

As to where to put the antenna, on the aforementioned trip we used a puck-style antenna with our laptop. We velcro'ed the antenna as far forward on the dashboard as we could (right up against the glass). To my recollection we never lost satellite reception (including in the big rainstorms.

GPS Receivers vary in sensitivity. OutbackPM's unit may be out of spec or on the hairy edge. I remember we had to send our ETrex Legend in for a broken lanyard pin. While it was at Garmin they tweaked the sensitivity becuase it was marginally off spec. You mileage may vary.

Ed
[/quote]

_WAAS_ you guys talking about?


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## Scrib (Jun 28, 2005)

NDJollyMon said:


> Here's a bit of news from Friday:
> 
> SPACECRAFT SEPARATION! The U.S. Air Force's Global Positioning System Block 2R-16 spacecraft has been released from the Boeing Delta 2 rocket's third stage to complete this afternoon's launch from Cape Canaveral.
> 
> ...


31 satellites!


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## OutbackPM (Sep 14, 2005)

Up date.

I took the camper on the same trip to Hocking Hills, Ohio a couple of weeks ago and the GPS worked fine without any difficulties. I am relieved that the Outback does not cause interference as I first thought. I did have an antena I borrowed but disconnected it to see if anything changed and nothing did so I left it off the whole weekend without any other hitches.

I am guessing it was something to do with the system on that weeken that caused it not to function properly.


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## renegade21rs (Oct 8, 2006)

I have a Garmin eTrex Legend. It rides on my lap when I travel. I seldom have problems with it, although once in awhile I will lose the signal. If I move the unit, it regains signal. I have more trouble than that with my satellite radio.


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