# I Have Trouble



## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

I filled up in Rochester NY. 20 miles later made it to KPA and went to bed. Next morning after hitching up, the truck stalled. Restarted it. Tried to move and the engine chuffed and black smoke was coming from the exhaust.

This stopped above 1700 rpm. The truck runs normally at highway speed. Continued down the highway hoping to born off what I think was a bad tank of fuel
Refilled the tank. Issue still existed.

Stopped at a Walmart with an Auto Zone next door. Changed primary and secondary fuel filters. Added diesel 911. Continued down the highway. Everything seemed okay. Last fill up added remaining 911 and Lucas additive. Was able to leave rest stop as normal. Made it to exit for campground and was good through 2 stop lights. At the third light o had the chugging again. Not as bad but thick exhaust.

Diesel outbackers don't fail me now!

Eric


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

Are you getting any malfunction codes?

I'm no expert but I think black smoke means you've got unburnt fuel in the exhaust. It could be from excessive fuel or a lack of air or a combination of both. You could try checking the air filter to make sure you don't have a blockage. Not sure what would cause excess fuel, maybe an injector issue? Good luck, you might try one of the Powerstroke forums.


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## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

Stacey says, " water in the fuel, 911 won't take it out, probably filled your filters again, near as I can tell." Good luck keep us posted!


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

UGGGGHHHHHH.......... No help here Eric, just feel your pain/frustration. Hang in there, I'm sure some of the wizz-bangs in the oil burner world will jump in here. Oh yes, take care of my truck, will you!? I'll search around the internet and see what pops up.......


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Dropped onto Ford enthusiasts forum. They believe it to be a stuck injector(s). Probably caused by bad fuel. But it would seem that it/they are not always stuck. It is intermittent. No codes popping up. Last leg of the journey is today. Perhaps with the additives o have put on, it will clear up fully.

At least by the end of the trip yesterday things seemed better. I am going to take a test run this am with no camper and see what happens. Thank-you so far.

I am baby-ing "your" truck Kevin! Have no fear!


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Any new sounds? Black smoke is a high fuel to air ratio. So anything that causes too much fuel or loss of air could be the issue.

If it is a stuck injector then check your oil level it will start going up. Also if you have a infrared temp gun, when you first start the truck check the exhaust manifold temperature at each outlet port as close to the head as you can get. If you have a stuck injector at idle it will be colder then the others.

As for sounds, does the turbo sound okay, is there any new whistles like an air leak? Look at all the inner cooler expansion joints for tears or loose clamps. If you can check the turbo for play in the bearings, take the inlet to the turbo off and see if the turbo shaft has very much movement up and down or front to back. Since it is a 05 it does not have all the emission junk on it but there is some and unfortunately I don't know enough about those items to help.


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

I've been lurking around too- These things have popped up...
1. Bad fuel (bunk or water in it)
2. FICM system (I have no idea what this is, but can be rebuilt from what I've read)
3. Your PCM needs to be "re-flashed" with new codes.

The last 2 don't make sense, as all you did was fuel up... SO, I'd be leaning toward the filters. The good news is, at least reading all the posts in Diesel forums, is that black smoke isn't necessarily a bad thing. White smoke on the other hand.....

I recall an old post on diesels, and something about adding "HEET" to your fuel.... some form of fuel additive that helps get the "unwanteds" out...maybe thats what the 911 does?


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Thanks Andy and Kevin. Familiar with FICM. Changed both fuel filters yesterday. Primary filter was heavy. No real visible blockage. But debris in the dorm of grains of sand and some particles did come out with the old filter. The engine filter appeared immaculate. Did notice that the fuel at the primary filter seemed to have a blue tint to it. And when collecting the fuel draining from the primary filter, I drained it into a steel dog dish (sorry Tasha) I am not sure but I think there was some sort of sheen to it.

I poured the fuel into a glad type Tupperware container and saved it. It is in the bed of my truck.

You know, I don't know what color diesel fuel is! Does it have a blue tint?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Diesel can be most any color from light yellow to a burnt orange on the warm color scale and fluorescent green to blue on the cool scale. As long as it is clear is all you should really worry about, from the sounds of it you have no water or that fuel from the filter would be milky.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

CamperAndy said:


> Diesel can be most any color from light yellow to a burnt orange on the warm color scale and fluorescent green to blue on the cool scale. As long as it is clear is all you should really worry about, from the sounds of it you have no water or that fuel from the filter would be milky.


Okay I will check that off the list.


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## Red Beard (Feb 13, 2010)

Since you have the fuel in a container you can check for water a couple of ways.
1. If you have a major water problem jet letting it sit will let the water and fuel separate and you will see the difference pretty clearly.

2. Mark the container where the top of the fuel is at, add rubbing alcohol about a ¼ cup will do, place another mark on the container at the new fluid level, shake well and let it sit if you have water in the fuel the alcohol will take it out of suspension and you will likely see a definite difference in the levels if not you will have to resort to measuring the difference of the liquids.

I believe your truck has a fuel filter on the frame rail below the driver - Have you changed this one?

It does sound like an injector issue; this can also be caused by dirty oil on this engine as the high pressure oil pump actuates the injectors.

Definitely check your oil level and keep a close check on it. If it rises then you have an injector problem than can lead to real BIG and expensive problems like a holed piston.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Took the truck for a test run. Initially all seemed well. But it is still chugging a bit after a few loops of an industrial park. I assume when I add the load of the camper the chugging is going to be exaggerated. I did not notice any unusual noises. But did notice prior to the chugging the engine got noticeably quieter.

I will check the things you mentioned Andy. I am not fluent with all of the components of this engine. But I am going to try.

Kevin, thank you as well. Fuel filters are out of the picture I think. Bad fuel that fouled the injectors is still a possibility and the things that Andy mentioned as well.

As far as the injectors, I hope that the Lucas additve might help. The other items I will need to check. I don't have Much time so I will get started. Please keep feeding info!

Eric


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Found a blue piece of flexible hose, 3 inches in diameter leading into the Turbo charger. It was covered in black fluid. Wiped the fluid off and can't tell if it is oil or fuel. There is a score on the tube. It doesn't seem split but when I push on it I get fluid weeping from the score mark. I don't know if that's the problem but that tube shouldn't be like that. Could this be the cause?


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

Yeah, that doesn't sound right......in searching, they seem to discuss the hose blowing off, not leaking oil... has it shifted at all? in other words, does it look like it's about to come off? maybe re-tighten the hose clamps (they say there's 4) and theres also a TSB listed for that hose (05-13-05).... I'll keep-a-searching....


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

first, you say that you are not getting any codes. do you have a code reader, or did you have autozone scan it for you ? (they should do it for free) you don't have a check engine light ?

it sounds to me like you could have an EGR valve issue or a bad exhaust back pressure sensor / clogged tube. how many miles are on it ? do you always run fuel additive or are you just doing it lately ? i would advise AGAINST using the lucas fuel additive. it is not the best product out there. in every tank of fuel i always run power service (white bottle in the winter or gray bottle in the summer) or the motorcraft additive. this helps the combustion be cleaner, and helps keep the EGR valve from building up deposits. do you let it idle alot, or do alot of short trips where she does not fully warm up ? this creates "wet stacking" of carbon on the EGR valve and EBP tube / turbo. i think you are having issues somewhere in the emissions stuff our 6.0L's have. if you had water in the fuel, you would be getting a message in the message center. by the way, did you use ford or international fuel filters top and bottom ? the WIX filters have been known to fail and send junk to the injectors. i would highly advise only using OEM fuel filters.

there are a couple of blue hoses around the turbo, but i think the one that you are referencing is the cold air return after the EGR is cooled and re-circulated in. that can get sooted up badly, but without a picture or a known code present, it is hard to tell. you can have codes present and not have a check engine light....

can you take a picture of the hose you are referring to ? also, i would create a thread in the 6.0L section of www.thedieselstop.com.....


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Well, as it turns out the blue flexible tube had nothing to do with the issue. The truck was not popping codes. This was tried at auto zone in south bend Indiana. Brian, the Guy who helped me is a diesel guru. I got a bad tank of fuel. Water in it anyway.

Long story short. Added diesel 911 when I refilled prior to reaching the camp ground last night. Over night the fuel and water stratified. When I started the truck and took it for a test spin at first all seemed well then the problem manifested itself again after the tank got stirred from motion.

Diesell 911 isn't the best stuff to use in this circumstance but it did help. Ran the tank down to 50 miles till empty by the message center
Stopped at the biggest truck stop in the world (according to the sign. And I believe it) diesel Nirvana. Spoke with three techs. They confirmed what Brian said. Not that I didn't trust him but I don't know the Guy When you have three guys who do this sort of stuff for a living... well that's another matter. gave me two pints of an additive. Told me to try to run off as much of the left over stuff in the tank. Huge lot. HUGE! Got it down to 40 miles left. The truck was runnong better from my auto zone visit but still not great. O was also told not to fill up at the TA pumps as they have a 10% bio-diesel added

Unhitched the camper and went to the BP at the truck stop, put the additive in filled up, hitched up and idled for about 30 minutes intermittently stepping on the accelerator to get the bad stuff out of the lines.

Back on the road going through 2 stop lights the truck seemed to be herself again. Made the on ramp and there was a chug or two and I could only describe the acceleration as nimble! Funny calling that beast nimble!

Took my exit and again two stop signs, no hesitation, into the campground and up a couple of grades leading to my site...no issue!

Think I got it licked! Any way, I will exhaust this tank and look forward to another fresh one with a final dose of the additive.

I appreciate all the help from the "family". I am still going to get her serviced. This was stressful for me and I am sure the truck!

BIG sigh of relief.

Now I need a name for the Truck! I am sure I'll get some input!

From deep, deep in a corn field in Iowa....

Outbackerman...


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Paul just saw your post. I am using a cell phone at the moment to get into outbackers.

There were no codes present when checked. Bzone, at auto zone , has a 2005 f350 as well and got bad gas at a mom and pop place. He test drove it and looked at the duel that I saved from the filter change. That coupled with the symptoms led Hinton believe as I had suspected, bad fuel.

I wanted to believe him and he spent a long time, almost an hour explaining what water in the fuel can do, symptoms and what to do to correct It.

Tomorrow will solidify thing should the truck continue to run as it did this evening. The blue hose at the Turbo charger wasn't the issue but should be replaced as it is cracked, or appears so.

Paul i will pm you and give you my number or set something up with you for pictures etc. It ain't over till its over and if something else is causing the issue and it is not cleared up then I need people like you, Andy Nathan and Russ in my corner! Thank you very much for the info!

Eric


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

ok eric, glad you are back in constructive forward motion. keep us posted.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Well the problem is still there. Not as bad but still present. Going to Ford dealership for service as soon as I am through checking in to the plant. At least i made it here and have resources. I will keep posting and update with info.

Eric


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Well got the truck to Junge Ford. They looked at it and Paul you were right. EGR valve failed. The blue hose I talked about was also cracked and weeping, especially while the truck was running at speed. I did have a bad tank of fuel but they believe that it is pretty much out of the system.

The additive that I used that seemed to help was called Sea Foam. The service department has seen it used before but suggest the motorcraft additive and product, which they added. I had them change the fuel filters again. I did not have Motorcraft filters on hand when I did the change in the Walmart parking lot. I knew that and took the risk to remove the old ones should they have been fouled.

Total cost $592.00. But a lesson learned.

Paul, I do not usually let the truck idle for extended periods of time. I do however in the morning, now that it is a bit colder will allow the truck to warm for two or three minutes prior to driving it. I head out on a highway on the way to work and will do 70-80 mph. It was my belief that if there was build up, that the highway use and acceleration would help minimize or reduce any build up of carbon.

I have been using the Lucas additive which I have heard 50/50 from those that I have talked to about using it. some like it and have used it for a while others are don't use it at all. Ford suggests thier additive and others suggest PS additive, white bottle in the winter, grey in the summer I think they said.

Anyway, there seems to be a lot of very firm opinions that contradict one another. All I want to do with this vehicle is the same that I have done with the others I have owned, maintain them properly, keep them clean, and do the maintenance that needs to be done on them when it needs to be done.

I am not sure if what I have done or didn't do led to the EGR valve failure. I don't believe I have created a condition to allow cold stacking, Paul, but again I am not sure.

It is that uncertainty that definately bothers me. I like to KNOW. I like to be "smart" about things. I don't feel "smart" about my engine. But I am going to be.

Eric

P.S. Red Beard, I missed your post as well. I apologize for that, thank you also for your input. Luckily it was not an injector problem.

I am all set up at lazy acres. I have my computer set up and I am happily surfin' the web.

Have a great day...

Still......deep in the corn....

Shucks... (couldn't help myself)

Eric


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## Red Beard (Feb 13, 2010)

well good for you....at least you are dealing with things that are on the cheap side...considering. 
Take a look at powerstrokhelp.com this guy really lays things out for you. Lots of good video and things to look out for.

That sea-foam stuff is pretty good stuff it came from the boat side of the diesel world. Talk about water issues.


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

eric,

ok, glad they found the source of your troubles. the EGR can be doing all kinds of things and not throw a code. the blue hose (called your CAC boot) was most likely fouled due to the EGR valve being fouled. it all kinda goes hand in hand. i would think your EBP (engine back pressure) sensor tube is coked up as well. maybe they looked at it, maybe they didn't. but don't be surprised if you have a little more trouble and you throw a check engine light. the tube can be coked, but the sensor still working ok, and you won't throw a code. if the sensor goes, then the code comes. if that happened in the next couple of weeks, i would not be at all surprised. it is not that costly, maybe $150 or so, IIRC. just trying to get you mentally prepared in case it does happen.

can i ask a couple of questions ?

1. how many miles are on the truck ?
2. how many hours are on the hour meter ?

divide #1 by #2. the dream is that it is over 55. most likely, it is under 45. that is the average miles per hour the truck has been driven since going in service. the more idling, stop and go city traffic the truck has seen, the worse the issues are with coking the EGR and EBP / turbo.

independent labs have tested the lubricating and cetane boosting properties of many diesel additives. lucas pretty much always comes out showing very little cetane boost and actually a SCORING tendency to it, rather than providing lubricity. i would really not use it, IMHO. the power service white / grey bottle will give you the cetane boost and lubricity, as well as anti gel properties all for a lower cost than the motorcraft stuff. it is also readily available, at napa stores, autozone, walmart, etc etc.

in the colder weather, i let my truck idle for 5 mins or so, then take off. i let the ECT (engine coolant temp) get to 100 degrees on the edge insight. then i baby it until ECT is 190 and EOT (engine oil temp) is 180ish. this usually takes another 5 - 10 mins or so. it also takes the tranny time to warm up, so babying it helps in the first 5 to 10 mins. fully warm for our 6.0L' is EOT at 190-195. and the 6.0L is a notoriously cold blooded engine. so pushing the engine too hard when cold will cause incomplete burning of the fuel, as the oil is not warm enough to actuate the injectors for a very efficient burn. that, coupled with poor fuel or low cetane fuel, will cause wet stacking even though you run it hard after letting it warm up for a few minutes. so i would advise going easy for that first 10 mins or so, then drive it normally. and once a week, don't just drive normally, but romp on it (drive it like you stole it). accelerate hard up some inclines and really build boost / spool up the turbo for about 5 to 10 mins. but don't romp on it until it is fully warm. the stock ford gauges are totally useless, which is why the edge insight is such a must for our trucks. for $300 or so, you know exactly where you are, and can read codes if you do throw a check engine light. i, like you, what you KNOW, not just guess. that is what the insight gives you. i tell you, once you drive with it, you can't imagine how you drove without it. if you plan on keeping the truck for awhile, it is a must have. also, you can see if you are headed down the road to an oil cooler replacement........but that is another story all together.....

anyway, how far is your ride to work ?

oh, and keep your truck far away from all that corn......don't want to get any ethanol in her !!!!!


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

Whew- yeah Eric, listen to Paul... put all that stuff into the ole girl before I buy it, would ya? I'll appreciate it!


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Whew! thanks Paul. The mechanic that did the work has about 9 years experience working on these trucks. You can imagine how many are here in Iowa. Its farm country! Anyway, I can call and ask them if the cleaned out the EBP sensor tube. The truck was being worked on for about 5 hours. It certainly wasn't a in and out job.

But it would be good to know. I have 14 miles to work from here. It is a quick ride on the highway and then down some secondary roads at about 50-70 miles an hour. There are no speed limit signs at all on the roads to the plant off the highway. 70 mph is the speed limit on the highway and there is about 500 yards till I hit the road with the on ramp on it.

I had them install the Block Heater cord as well. I bought that in NH with designs of putting it in myself. Well, since the truck was there....had them do that too. I have an outlet on the power to the camper and I will plug the truck in on a timer...Ugh..I think I took that out of the camper now that I think of it. Anyway, I'll get the truck plugged in and get some warming on it before I leave.

Any suggestions on the amount of time to have it plugged in prior to leaving? It is getting down to about 45 degrees. I know that isn't that cold but it would be nice to know how fast it will heat the block up. I am told that it is not uncommon to have temps down to 20-30 below during the dead of winter. Colder than that on occasion. I will be here into November and I will more than likely see more than a few freezing nights.

The truck has almost exactly 64,000 miles on it now. It is due for an oil change shortly. Engine hours are 2082.7 = 30.73 MPH. That is very low I suppose. Maybe the guy that owned in last time was 85 years old? Sheesh!

Well short of travelling at 100 miles an hour for the next 40K I don't think that number is going to get much better very soon.

I do not have the instruments you are talking about and I don't know when I might get them. How can I head the oil cooler off at the pass IF it could be a future problem? I believe I was talking to someone and they mentioned an aftermarket oil cooler. It escapes me though.

Kevin, she's smiling! And purring! But Paul is putting the fear of God into me!

Eric


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

Eh, just some minor bugs.... That was Russ and I chatting with you at Ashuelot about the cooler- this was the article I read about...
http://fleetservicenorthwest.com/6LPSD062209.aspx

there are others out there as well......but Paul will have the down low, for sure.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Calvin&Hobbes said:


> Eh, just some minor bugs.... That was Russ and I chatting with you at Ashuelot about the cooler- this was the article I read about...
> http://fleetservicenorthwest.com/6LPSD062209.aspx
> 
> there are others out there as well......but Paul will have the down low, for sure.


That's Right!!! Ugh! I need to get Russ that VIN too! Man..my life has been a whirl wind here lately! Thanks Kevin! Man, it's only been a couple of weeks and I miss all of you guys!

Err. ahem sorry that was my feminine side, small, little thing..ehh forget it. Who's planning the Spring Rally!?!!


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

egregg57 said:


> The truck has almost exactly 64,000 miles on it now. It is due for an oil change shortly. Engine hours are 2082.7 = 30.73 MPH. That is very low I suppose. Maybe the guy that owned in last time was 85 years old? Sheesh!


Actually that is a very typical number for a mixed use truck. The only people that see anything above 45 would be long haul guys and they more then likely have a lot of idle time also.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

CamperAndy said:


> The truck has almost exactly 64,000 miles on it now. It is due for an oil change shortly. Engine hours are 2082.7 = 30.73 MPH. That is very low I suppose. Maybe the guy that owned in last time was 85 years old? Sheesh!


Actually that is a very typical number for a mixed use truck. The only people that see anything above 45 would be long haul guys and they more then likely have a lot of idle time also.
[/quote]

Well all of this has been a great learning experience. I hope that others that run into the symptoms I have had might find this post and get some use out of it to. So I think I will put this thread to bed. Outbackers does it again!

Eric


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Just when you thought it was safe....

Told Wolfie about this. Came to grips with it last night, so I thought I would share my woes with the group...

Well, got within 56 minutes of home, by the GPS, and the message center on my F-350 popped up with High Engine temperature, Overheat. Pulled to the side immediately. Noticed white smoke or steam from exhaust. Faint smell of coolant was prevelant. Seems I mat have lost my EGR cooler or worse, head gaskets.

Fordimus Prime is currently at the ford dealer being looked at. Will probably have EGR Cooler, Oil Cooler removed and replaced. Hopefully no damage to gaskets. There were no leaks. No other outward signs of damage.

Took the truck through the Allegany and Berkshires. It performed wonderfully. Don't know what caused the issue. But I am thinking some of the horrible roads in NY and Mass may have bounced loose some of the casting material that many have talked about in the Oil Cooler and it caused a restriction and the weakest link, the EGR cooler, and that went. Will see later on this afternoon I guess. If that is the case, and I hope it is, my fast responce to the condition and not travelling any further may have saved further damage to another component.

Well, Kevin, guess I am knocking out the bugs for ya.... Well see. hopefully I haven't knocked out the engine!

Eric


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

hi eric:

well, it does certainly sound like you popped the EGR cooler. is the truck still under the 5 yr warranty ? most likely not unfortunately....

when the EGR cooler repair is done under warranty, ford requires that the oil cooler be replaced as well. you are most likely correct in that the oil cooler has been on the way out for awhile, and your working her over on the run back from out west is what put the oil cooler over the top, starving the EGR cooler of coolant and popping it was well. the oil cooler is the weak link. the engine overheating warning was likely caused from the 15 degree spread between oil and coolant temps being widely violated. it is unlikely that the head gaskets are gone, however. did the cab smell of antifreeze at all in the hours prior to this happening ? if you lost alot of coolant via puking out of the degas bottle prior to this event, then you could have built up enough heat to pop the head gaskets. i have my fingers crossed for you.

if you are replacing these items with OEM items, either under warranty (again my fingers are crossed) or not under warranty, i would suggest that you put a coolant filter on and an edge insight afterwards. that way you can watch this stuff again going forward.

also, and this is very IMPORTANT: in re-reading your older posts, i saw that you paid about $600 to the ford dealer out there, Junge ford, i believe. was that for the EGR valve repair ? i spaced asking you about that cost, but in re-reading it i caught it....our trucks have an 8 year / 80,000 mile EMISSIONS warranty. IIRC, it's parts and labor, no deductible. so that EGR valve, being part of the emissions system, should have been covered. i know they did other things to the truck, but are they trying to blame one tank of bad fuel on the failed EGR valve ? no way that is the case.....i imagine that you were out of the 5 yr / 100k warranty there, so they charged you. but they most likely did not mention the emissions warranty. given that the truck was there, not long ago, and they pulled the EGR valve, they would have POTENTIALLY seen the wetness from a leaking EGR cooler, IF IT WAS LEAKING THEN. this could be a stretch, but something you could use in negotiations with ford to TRY to have some of this cost taken care of.....let me know if you want to talk more about it....

keep us posted on what they find !

best
paul


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

willingtonpaul said:


> hi eric:
> 
> well, it does certainly sound like you popped the EGR cooler. is the truck still under the 5 yr warranty ? most likely not unfortunately....
> 
> ...


 Well Paul, the truck does not have that emission warranty. The only warranty it "HAD" was the 5yr/100,000 mile engine and power train warranty. That expired 3/11/2010. about 2 months before I bought her.

I called Junge Ford in Center Point Iowa and talked to the Service Manager (Mike) and the diesel Tech (Greg) that worked on it. Greg specifically looked for those things because at the time I was not sure what was happening. They did not suggest it was a bad tank of fuel, rather I was pretty certain that I had got a bad tank of fuel. I told them that I felt that I had got bad fuel and I had since run two tanks of good diesel (after asking some annoying questions of service station people). Added Diesel 911 and then Sea Foam additive. The combination of things seemed to relieve the symptoms somewhat which help to bolster my belief in the bad fuel.

I called the suspect station and found that they run a 5%-20% Bio-Diesel Blend in the pumps that I got fuel from and 90% of the vehicles getting fuel at those pumps are semi's. I have got conflicting opinions on whether 6.0L like that stuff or not. Whether that exsacerbated the problem or not is another question.

So EGR Cooler is popped. Oil Cooler and EGR Cooler will be replaced, oil and filters replaced. All said and done....$2600.00. Should have her back later today or tomorrow morning.

Eric


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

no emissions warranty ? not to question, but are you sure ? i really thought that the emissions warranty was a federally mandated warranty, not a state specific warranty, as the emissions requirements that the 6.0L was designed to comply with were on a federal level......

i am gonna do some research on that one, because i am just too curious and hate to see a brother 6.0L owner foot the whole bill unless it is absolutely necessary.....

as far as biodiesel on the 6.0L, i too have heard conflicting opinions on the side effects of using it. what seems pretty consistent in my research is that the older style EGR valve, in the 2003/2004 model years, could not take it (remember, old formula diesel was in production then, even though the engine was designed to run on ULSD) but the newer style EGR valve in mid 2005 through 2007 could take a max 5% blend, and that the 5% blend with a cetane booster added was actually excellent to be a lubricity enhancer. IMHO 20% biodiesel is way too much for anything other than the new 6.7L. this is why i never fill up at the "big nozzle" at truck stops, but always at the small nozzle diesel pumps. the big nozzle pumps do not filter their fuel as well, and include bigger bio diesel blends that the semi's can handle. semi's have better 2 or 3 stage fuel filter setups, and they can handle higher biodiesel concentrates. and i always run a cetane booster for EGR valve health, cold start efficiency, and very modest MPG improvement.

and please make sure that they do the VC-9 flush per the ford TSB on oil cooler / EGR cooler replacement. i am sure they will, but make sure anyhow. being retired military, you know the cold war doctrine, "trust but verify"....also, given the high heat scenario your engine faced, have them replace the t-stat. they are already in there, and it will be like $50 more to do it. they will say it is not necessary, but do it anyhow. then, your coolant system will be returned to brand new condition....coolant, EGR cooler, oil cooler, flush, t-stat, all is OEM and brand new...then, when you get her back, i strongly suggest you get a coolant filter on her ASAP. you then will never have this problem again.......you gotta filter the junk out of the coolant.

after your wallet recovers, then get the edge insight put in......

it truly pains me that you had these issues. with the low miles your truck has, IMHO, you clearly have a block that is throwing alot of casting sand and scale. this new oil cooler is only gonna plug up again if you do not get that coolant filter on. it is $150 max, and a piece of cake to put in. or if you are not comfortable doing it, then you can pay someone an hour of labor max to put it in for you....it is critical to make this $2600 fix last......granted, ford should have retrofitted all 6.0L's with coolant filters, to be sure. but they chose the easy way out, and sued international instead.

www.dieselsite.com is the website. look for the 6.0L coolant filter kit....


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

i did some digging, and it look like it's all about the in service date. most 2006's and all 2007's have the 8 yr / 80k emissions warranty, a 6 yr / 60k powertrain warranty, and the 5 yr / 100k engine warranty. before early build 2006's and prior (like your 2005) all you have is the 5 yr / 100k. and like you said, that was done in march of this year, before you bought the truck. i hate like hell to say it, but it could well be that the previous owner understood this and was worried so he traded it in when he knew his safety blanket was gone, rather than purchase a new warranty, and now, you can't even purchase a ford warranty, as it is out of the original warranty, and they won't sell you one, regardless of the price. and i would not entertain ever buying a non ford warranty. aftermarket warranties are risky buisness, to say the least.....

on top of this, if your in service date was march of 2005, then your build date was most likely in 2004, so you might have the older style EGR valve (not now, as junge ford replaced it). that could have been a big contributing factor in your troubles out west.

this info is from a ford tech, but i am cross checking it against some other very reliable sources for accuracy....

i truly wish i found out better news for you.....but there still is a small chance, i guess.....

paul


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Thank you for your persistance, Paul. As it turns out the Service Manager at the Ford Dealership I am having the work done at is the husband of a girl I went to High School with and they live 4 houses down from me....









David took the time to do the extra research about the Federal Emissions Warranty on the parts being replaced, and on the truck, that several have mentioned, some on FTE have been adamant about. They were wrong. It does apply like you said to newer builds. But not mine. Mine had the 5/100K only.

I just got done working an Outage in Iowa as you probably know, so there was a bunch of extra money on hand that I would not have had otherwise. Do to this I am able to absorb the 2,600.00 repair with out any negative impact.

I do need to find out about the coolant filter and WILL install that immediately, or perhaps Ford has a filter kit? If they are in there..... like you said. I will ask about the thermostat. I am not sure how far along they are in the repair. They indicated that they may be done with it today.

Well since you brought all of this stuff up, I stopped mid post and called. They do not normally change the thermostat out for this sort of job, you were right. But since I requested it they would. The truck will be done today. Dave was not sure that Ford carried a coolant filter kit, that it may be a aftermarket thing only. If they do offer one he will call me back and install it.

heck, while I was at it, I am having them replace the driverside door gasket which was damaged from the previous owner and replace the under bumper valance that I may or may not have hypothetically cracked while at Tibmer Tina's Lumberjack show in Acadia. Seems a pole got up and jumped in my way and until I went over it with my rear wheels, never felt it....
















MMMM I can smell the diesel already... Ahhhhh!


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

I'm not sure if this is much help but I found this site for replacement PSD EGR coolers.

http://www.bulletproofdiesel.com/

Claims to solve the problems with the stock ones but they are expensive. Sounds like you're into it for quite a bit of $$ already though.

No matter what brand truck you've got you can run into expensive issues unexpectedly. A buddy at work had to replace the VP44 injection pump on his 02 Dodge/Cummins and that set him back $2,500.

Good luck.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Glad to hear that it's all being taken care of. Do let me know if/when you need the Tundra's help







but do us a favor, ok? Come in Tina's car....whatever the truck has could be contagious and Herself is just a young pup







Don't want her to catch *anything* ....


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

Eric, Here is the coolant filter that Paul was talking about, I just put mine on yesterday. No biggie and very easy install. I also recommend getting the pair of check ball valves they have at the bottom of the page. Also pick up a few extra filters , as they recommend changing them out every 3 months for the first 3 months and then they should last about a year. Just have to keep an eye on he flow in the the degas bottle, when it slows down, change it out.

If you get a chance before they are done have them install the new spring kit in the fuel pump. Not sure what the part number is, but your buddy will know what I'm talking about.

Good luck and maybe we will make a winter trip up and converge soem Ford diesels at Wolfwood.









Dieselsite coolant bypass filter

Jim


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

wolfwood said:


> Glad to hear that it's all being taken care of. Do let me know if/when you need the Tundra's help
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 HaHa! Fordimus Prime is cured and purring like a Lion! Nice to have her back in the yard! You and Kathy are too kind! I am going to take you up on the Blueberry or a fine cup of Keurig Coffee and chew the fat with you guys shortly!

There is no lingering illness for herself to be worried about!

E


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Joonbee said:


> Eric, Here is the coolant filter that Paul was talking about, I just put mine on yesterday. No biggie and very easy install. I also recommend getting the pair of check ball valves they have at the bottom of the page. Also pick up a few extra filters , as they recommend changing them out every 3 months for the first 3 months and then they should last about a year. Just have to keep an eye on he flow in the the degas bottle, when it slows down, change it out.
> 
> If you get a chance before they are done have them install the new spring kit in the fuel pump. Not sure what the part number is, but your buddy will know what I'm talking about.
> 
> ...


 Thanks Jim!


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