# Anybody Towing W/ 5.4L In Superduty



## Red Beard

I am currently towing with a company vehicle (SuperCrew) which limits me somewhat. (shhh don't tell)








So I am looking for a good new to me truck, preferably a SuperDuty Crew Cab, just because they come with the E range tires, and I am not so close on the GCVW. My SuperCrew handles the 250RS the only real complaint I have I think is related to the 3:55 gears with the taller than stock tires and mountains. Rolling out on the flats no problem running 70mph. 
I may have found a nice deal on a F250 with a 5.4L and 3:73 gears. 
I know that the 5.4 will never be a diesel but then again I can buy a lot of fuel and pay for a lot of nights on the 5k to 10k price difference between the gasser and the oil burner. 
The spec's show that the 5.4L in my 04 SuperCrew, has nearly the same horsepower and torque as a 03 7.3L Stock PowerStroke. However, the power in my gasser comes in around above 3800 RPM's, whereas the diesel is in the 2000-2500 RPM range.

Questions: 
1.	Will I regret not holding out for the oil burner? 
2.	Will finding one with 3:73 or better yet 4:10, be worth it?
I am located on the east coast so I will see my share of long hills/mountains between the flats. 
Looking for any and all info my fellow outbackers may offer.

Thanks in advance!!!


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## egregg57

I can speak a little on this subject! I have pulled several different trailers, from a hybrid, to a 29 foot springdale to the 31RQS I am towing now. I have towed with an Explorer Sport Trac, Expedition, Chevy 1500HD, Ford F-250 6.8l V-10, and now the 6.0L Diesel. As far as I am concerned there is no comparrison in the low end torque of the diesel. It out matches everything I have driven. BUT I am guaging that on pulling this particlar camper with the 1500HD 6.0L, F-250 V-10, and the Diesel.

The 5.4L V8 is a good engine. After driving the Expedition with that engine and towing the Springdale which was 29' long I can say that the truck did okay, like you said on the flats. It tended to strain on hills and there are a few on the way up to the Mount Washington Valley that solidified the need to change the truck out. Plus I was a newbie to larger campers, was fed the song and dance about the SUV being able to tow the camper no sweat. That wasn't really the case because my CGVWR was well over the rated limit. The wheel base was too short and the add on Anti-Sway bars only partially took care of the tendancy for the tail to be wagging the dog. But I digress...

For the 250RS, depending on the size of your family and what you are hauling you probably will be okay. The 5.4 will strain a bit on the hills if you are loaded up. My brother-in-law had a F-250 with the 5.4L and borrowed my camper for a weekend and he said that he was really happy with how it towed. He was going to a campground up towards Rangley and didn't really experience much for hills that would have tested the truck.

Long story short, I think that you would be happy with the 5.4L and the 250RS. Yes you will probably get it up into the 3.8-4K range on some hills. Can you do better for a tow vehicle? Sure you probably could do a diesel, or go to a V-10 (Loved that Engine!) There are others that will chime in too. Tow capacity, GCVWR, Wheel base and a good hitch all play into the equation.

The good thing is that the winter is coming. Camping season in the north east is winding down or pretty much over. So you have some time to look. There are deals out there. But in my experience what I found is that the good ones go very quickly. It pays to keep on top of the dealership sites looking for the new used vehicles being posted. I also called several places and was very specific about what I was looking for and explained that there was no need to call me unless a truck that matched the criteria came onto the lot. I didn't get hounded. Which was good.

In each vehicle I bought, most of them used, I tended to wait a good while before purchasing. I decided what I needed and then it took time, because I would not cave in on what I wanted in the vehicle. There is a lot of junk out there. And you can get that junk all day long too! If you are like a lot of people all of this isn't news at all! But I do not know of a lot of people that will wait as long as I will, or will drive thier wives quite as crazy as I will when it comes to buying a truck.

I know that was a little more than what you asked, but sometimes the extra info is worth something! Good luck with your search!!

Eric


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## Red Beard

Thanks for your input! 
I guess my struggle is with the 5.4 and how it would tow with some lower gears in the 3:73 to 4:10 range. 
I am a very realistic person when it comes to power, I can deal with letting the engine rev and getting it onto the cam as the manufactures designed it. I also understand that this only goes so far. 
I really would like to know how the 5.4 would tow with a set of 4:10's BUT the big questions is will the 4:10's be enough? 
The SuperCrew that I am using now has 3:55 rears and with the taller load range E tires it just can't find the gear pulling up hill. 
I have a great hitch set up with the Reese Dual Cam which I have taken the time to really set up. I never feel that this truck with this set up is not up to the task as far as the suspension goes, just would like some more power in the up hills. 
Since I need to get a truck stepping up to the ¾ ton would offer better towing capacity and the goodies to go with it; i.e tranny cooler, oil cooler, heavy duty tires etc. Thus the need to decide if I go with a gasser and keep a couple of buck in my pocket or step up the oil burner and know that I have the most power I will need. 
Ultimately I would like to do a test pull with a gasser, tried the local dealer but they are selling not testing&#8230;can't sell it too me if I can't drive it the way I want which means hooking it up and heading for the hills. Typical sales people trust me it will handle your trailer,,,,,,really so if I am unhappy you'll take it back????? Well uh, uh I guess we, well we could always make you deal to trade it on something else&#8230;.Well uh I guess you won't get the sale! 
Hate a decision like this!


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## rdvholtwood

Red Beard said:


> Questions:
> 1.	Will I regret not holding out for the oil burner?
> 2.	Will finding one with 3:73 or better yet 4:10, be worth it?
> I am located on the east coast so I will see my share of long hills/mountains between the flats.
> Looking for any and all info my fellow outbackers may offer.
> 
> Thanks in advance!!!


We have a Dodge RAM 2500 with a 5.7L w/3.73 rear and it does fine towing our 250RS. I have a pretty steep hill right outside our driveway that I need to go up whenever we head out and, yes, it does struggle up the hill. Even though it struggles, I still slowly accelerate as I crest the hill. If we are on a highway and I am approaching a hill, I can get up enough momentum to take the hill with no problems. I think you would be fine with a 3.73...As we are only getting 9mpg towing, I am not sure how much gas mileage you would get with a 4.10.

As far as the oil burner, I told the DW if we are planning to do any long haul towing - i.e, out midwest or south, I would like to have a diesel. You can't beat the mileage you get with the diesel - as we only get 9mpg on our gasser...If not just mileage, its the torque for getting through the mountains. We pretty much camp within 3 hours of our house so at this time we are content with the gasser.

All in all we are pretty happy with our 2500 and best of luck with your search...


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## GO WEST

I was trying for months to make the same decision. My former TV which I still have is a 16 valve 03F150 5.4L super cab with 265hp and 3.55 rear. The 04 and later 150/250 have 24 valves in the 5.4L generating 300hp (and maybe a bit more torque). My 03 pulled my 6,000 lb camper okay (comparable size to the 250RS) all the way to Flagstaff, Arizona this past summer. We made it there and back fine. It revved up to 4,000 on some hills. It doesn't hurt the motor. I think the 5.4L in the F250 with 3.73 will work better than your 04 with 3.55L but not "night and day" difference like going to a diesel. Are you stuck on Ford? I ended up going with a 99 Suburban 2500 with a 7.4L with 3.73. I haven't towed with it yet but it should do better than my Ford set up. Just weigh all of your options of trucks and motors/rears and don't get in a hurry. If you plan on sticking with the 250RS the 250 5.4L/3.73 is good enough; if you plan to get a larger and heavier trailer better take the plunge and go with the diesel now.


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## ORvagabond

I pulled a 28KRS probably around 7500 lbs with a 2006 5.4l with 3.73 and it had the 300hp engine. It was adequate but definitely was in 3500+rpm range on hills and barely managed 8mpg which compounds the issue with only a 28 gal fuel tank. My son pulls a 29 ft with a V10 and 4.10 and he would not go back to a V8 and for the $ including maintemance would not go back to a diesel.


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## Bakerman

Red, I think the crux of the problem with your current truck is the gearing, in your comment "can't find the gear pulling uphill". I'm guessing your F150 has a 4 speed tranny? I'm also guessing you tow with overdrive disabled, so you only have 3 usable gears? If you have to slow down while pulling a hill, being in 3rd gear at lower speed it doesn't have the torque to accellerate, and dropping into 2nd on the highway is too high rpm? Similar situation I had with my Expedition 3.55 gears & 17" tires. My replacement truck 06 sierra 2500 has 4.10s and 16 inch tires - and similar torque/hp as your ford. As soon as I drove it even without the trailer I could tell the difference in the gearing, even with no load. It can pull my 25rss all day on the flats in 4th gear 2200rpm, and pulling hills it simply drops to 3rd and pulls the hill at 3500rpm, it might even accellerate a little. I have a light foot, but never been to the floor in this truck. Went from CT to Georgia this summer in the Sierra, no problems at all. With the lower gearing it has the power needed to competently pull a trailer our size, not gonna win any races of course. I'm guessing changing gears and tires on your truck isn't an option. If you're looking at new, Dodge is advertising now "if it doesn't do everything you want we'll buy it back...". Look around more and see if another dealer will let you test pull, many folks have done that successfully. And get the 4.10s you'll be happier if you want the most possible usable torque from a v8 gasser, and the smallest available tire diameter. Burns a little more gas but you know that. I get 10mpg towing, 13 otherwise about avg for these rigs.
Bakeman


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## Nathan

2 things:

1. The SD will have a 5 speed tranny and a better RE ratio.
2. The SD will be heavier and have a less powerful version of the 5.4L

Either will get you up the hill. I can't personally say which will be better as I haven't compared them.


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## GO WEST

Red Beard, I am not really that brand loyal. I have two cars Pontiac/Toyota, and now two trucks Ford/Chevy. On the way down to San Antonio to buy my second Suburban, my Dad was with me and he was talking about how the diesels are the way to go. So I pulled off the freeway to the best local Dodge dealer and we looked at a couple of used Dodges (late models both 5.9 and 6.7 Cummins quad cabs and megacabs.) These used diesels were well over $30,000. I asked the salesman what his opinion was about which was less expensive to operate. He said the fuel mileage of the 6.7L diesel and the 5.7L gas Hemi (393 hp) are not that different, towing or empty. He said it depends on what you are pulling. The diesel can tow up to 16,000 lb and the gasser (2010 model) 11,000 lb (three quarter ton with stock 3.73). We then went to look at some NEW 2010 Dodge 2500 crew cabs (two full doors unlike the quad cabs). For $32,000 to $35,000 you could get a nice new gasser for the price of a used diesel. If it's within your means (it wasn't within mine, I bought a used 2500 Burb) you might think of a new 2010 or 2011 Dodge or a new 2011 Ford 250 with the 6.2L gas motor (haven't checked out its numbers like hp/torque/cost. Just my $.02. Also in comparing the 3.73 to the 4.10 rear on my Suburban with the 7.4L motor the tow ratings are 8,500 lb for the 3.73 and 10,000 lb for the 4.10. I have the 3.73 stock in mine, but if I find out it's not enough, I may consider switching out to the 4.10. However my camper is only 6,000 lb loaded so I suspect I'll be fine with the 3.73. I will find out over Thanksgiving (we camp year round here in Texas, even it gets into the low 20's in the winter, I'm out there!)


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## Red Beard

First of all I have to thank you all for your input!!!








The Outbacker family is the most helpful group of people.
Well I took a look at the truck and let&#146;s just say it was not as advertised. 
So after digesting everything I think I am going to throw a curve ball, I am thinking about getting a programmer for the truck I have and making the adjustment to the transmission for the tire size. I know it will not add another gear but after talking to a few people it should allow the transmission to find its gear. We will see&#8230;
I am thinking that since I can use this as sort of an experiment with what I have. If this gets me close I may lean strongly towards a SuperDuty with a 5.4L sporting some low gears. 
I would really like to have an oil burner but I have a realistic side that says do you really need it. 
I have in that past, hooked up to over 18,000lbs with my old 82 f-150 with a 5.0L and heavy duty 4 speed manual under the hood and 3:55 gears. Did I pull it fast no but I was cautious and sensible as you can be when you are more than maxed out. Would I recommend this to anyone NO!!! However, I know the limits of both myself and the equipment under me, and that was no ordinary F-150 she is a factory ¾ ton F-150- she came from the factory with 800lb helper springs on the rear amongst other little goodies. BTW- I was hauling a big ol&#146; tractor for a friend of mine.
I think that if I can be confident that the 5.4L with the right gearing will pull comfortably uphill I will go with it, meaning that it can find and hold the gear and pull instead of falling on its face. I can live with running a little slower up hill for compared to the extra cost of the diesel. 
I would like to find a SuperDuty Crew Cab with a 5.4L, 6 speed manual (8 speed would be perfect) and 4:95 rears. Wishful I know&#8230;. I guess I could always build one








Thanks to everyone for your input and thoughts&#8230;I knew I could count on my fellow outbackers!


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