# Embalmed In Your Rv: Formaldehyde Poisons Vacationers



## matty1 (Mar 7, 2005)

Interesting article, mentions Keystone Cougar..

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Health/story?id=3240532&page=1


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## Brad1 (Jan 21, 2007)

OK.... so it doesn't take much of a scientist to know that we all probably have this in ours. What can we do about it. This article is really worrying me. Each time I go into the TT after it sitting for a while, I still get a bit of the burning, etc. I've got little kids and one on the way to think about. Anyone know if Keystone has changed the glue in the recent future?


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## battalionchief3 (Jun 27, 2006)

I think we have all felt those symptoms....


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## dancinmon (Oct 5, 2004)

Would one of these help monitor for the fumes. It says it checks outgassing from construction materials.

http://www.photovac.com/LP/Photovac_2020pp...gle_ppb&gcl


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## battalionchief3 (Jun 27, 2006)

I have one of those on our Haz-mat truck, I should give it a try....


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

battalionchief3 said:


> I have one of those on our Haz-mat truck, I should give it a try....


plz do and keep us posted


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## OutbackPM (Sep 14, 2005)

Brad said:


> OK.... so it doesn't take much of a scientist to know that we all probably have this in ours. What can we do about it. This article is really worrying me. Each time I go into the TT after it sitting for a while, I still get a bit of the burning, etc. I've got little kids and one on the way to think about. Anyone know if Keystone has changed the glue in the recent future?


Brad

You have a relatively new TT so it will have the smell when shut up for a while. If you get maxair vents for the top you can leave them open during storage and the smell is minimized greatly each time you go in. I also leave the rear slide window and kitchen window cracked in storage to help but I also have a locked and monotored gate at the storage to minimize thieves and vandall. 
I got all three vent done for maximum ventilation. Others have put a better fan on one of the openings to get better flow while camping. For you and I we have little season where you don't have heat or you need A/C so I have not bothered with a big fan but it might be a way of clearing the camper say once a day while you are camping to extract much of the smell.

I am with you with small kids that can be effected so I keep the trailer well vented even when in it by keeping the maxair vents open.

Take care

Hope to see you camping agian sometime

David


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Not trying to gloss over this at all, as it could be a serious issue. But the press does like to 'sell newspapers'
And nothing sells like a little sensationalizm. From where I stand, a little more research is in order before I panic.

Let's all keep our eyes and ears open, and report everything we hear. The positive as well as the negative.









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## 4ME (Sep 11, 2006)

I try and stay a little "embalmed" while camping.

I know we could not have stayed in ours overnight until
some the off-gassing was done but I don't feel it was unsafe only
unpleasant. Your body produces formaldehyde so I think the levels would probably have to be unbearable to be a serious risk.Some government agency would have probably stepped in long ago if there was a problem. They have been making these things a long time and in several different countries some with higher standards.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

PDX_Doug said:


> Not trying to gloss over this at all, as it could be a serious issue. But the press does like to 'sell newspapers'
> And nothing sells like a little sensationalizm. From where I stand, a little more research is in order before I panic.
> 
> Let's all keep our eyes and ears open, and report everything we hear. The positive as well as the negative.
> ...


 I agree. Good ventilation, exchanging the air, will speed the curing process and the smell will disapate. This is my third new unit. Each had pretty much the same smells. When new I opened the windows and vents, ran the fan and got the air moving after a short while the smell was gone. By a short while I mean a few weeks.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

I guess if you are in 90 degree weather and do not have AC, you have a problem. Interesting article tho but I agree with Doug.

Can only imagine what the smoke from the campfire has done to my lungs or the beer has done to my liver,.......


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

don't we have forum member who is an embalmer? ( I am serious) or he's in the funeral business, something anyway. Perhaps he could chime in, I imagine he knows a thing or two about formaldehyde


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## nonny (Aug 14, 2005)

If you mean Don, he builds caskets. I don't think he places people in them, other than himself (see pic/avatar), right, Don?


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

nonny said:


> If you mean Don, he builds caskets. I don't think he places people in them, other than himself (see pic/avatar), right, Don?


Hmmmm.... I could think a few he could practice with








with all the members on the forum , I hope someone has more knowledge on the issue of formaldehyde


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Doxie-Doglover-Too said:


> don't we have forum member who is an embalmer? ( I am serious) or he's in the funeral business, something anyway. Perhaps he could chime in, I imagine he knows a thing or two about formaldehyde


Are you thinking about Morgueman? Hopefully they'll see this and chime it...


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## having_fun (Jun 19, 2006)

The formaldehyde was a big issue after Katrina, but in no way a new issue. You don't need a sensor, you know it when you have it, you can smell and feel it. If your eyes burn, you have it, if you cant breath, you have it. It all comes down to airing out you new camper. In the heat of the south after Katrina, and with people living in them full time, its a real issue.

For us campers, let those babies air out and lets camp!!!!!! I wish the dealers would do it, as it could bring serious discomfort or sickness for children and infants. There should be clear instructions and the risk of not doing it signed by every buyer.


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## digger (Jul 7, 2006)

having_fun said:


> The formaldehyde was a big issue after Katrina, but in no way a new issue. You don't need a sensor, you know it when you have it, you can smell and feel it. If your eyes burn, you have it, if you cant breath, you have it. It all comes down to airing out you new camper. In the heat of the south after Katrina, and with people living in them full time, its a real issue.
> 
> For us campers, let those babies air out and lets camp!!!!!! I wish the dealers would do it, as it could bring serious discomfort or sickness for children and infants. There should be clear instructions and the risk of not doing it signed by every buyer.


I am a embalmer/funeral director and have worked with the chemicals for years, grant it they are strong but tollerable. My camper also has the same smell we purchased it in July of 2006. I have a formaldyde test that I may place in the camper just to see. I think the levels in the campers if any can not be high enough to pose any serious risks.


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

digger said:


> The formaldehyde was a big issue after Katrina, but in no way a new issue. You don't need a sensor, you know it when you have it, you can smell and feel it. If your eyes burn, you have it, if you cant breath, you have it. It all comes down to airing out you new camper. In the heat of the south after Katrina, and with people living in them full time, its a real issue.
> 
> For us campers, let those babies air out and lets camp!!!!!! I wish the dealers would do it, as it could bring serious discomfort or sickness for children and infants. There should be clear instructions and the risk of not doing it signed by every buyer.


I am a embalmer/funeral director and have worked with the chemicals for years, grant it they are strong but tollerable. My camper also has the same smell we purchased it in July of 2006. I have a formaldyde test that I may place in the camper just to see. I think the levels in the campers if any can not be high enough to pose any serious risks.
[/quote]
See! we have someone!







plz keep us posted on your test. (ps) I dated an embalmer once, told me to ask any questions I had and believe me, I had questions!







) I completely respect those of you who the the less than easy jobs. Thank you for your services!


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## Pakeboy2 (Aug 13, 2005)

Good ventilation and maybe a fan circulating the air...


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

We were lucky when we bought out OB. The dealer had it setup inside and opened all of the time in a heated building, so by the time we got it most of the gas had disipated. We stopped at a dealer the other day and looked at a few new Montana's and another brand that had been shut up. They really did reek! I'm usually not sensitive to the odors, but it really did get to me. I agree with others, ventalate well. You can also "bake" the smell out but turning on the heater on high for a couple of days and then venting well. You not only get the smell from the wall board, but from the carpeting, the furniture and even the plastic in the shower. All it takes is time. If you are sensitive, I would suggest visting a lot in the heat early in the day and walking into some campers. If it doesn't bother you then, likely it will not bother you later.


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## ProEdge (Mar 8, 2007)

It only took one real hot day in the sun with all vents and windows open.. 
The smell is totally gone now..


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## justinsnow0 (Feb 5, 2007)

Does it have an effect on someone that is pregnant? Is their any info on this and a fetus?


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

Since I'm at work and bored, I might as well share what I found. Hope this formats correctly.

REPROTOXÂ®

FORMALDEHYDE 
Quick take: Experimental animal studies do not suggest that formaldehyde exposure during pregnancy is likely to increase the risk of congenital anomalies. Weak associations between human occupational formaldehyde exposure and miscarriage have been reported.

* * *

Formaldehyde is a gas that is widely used in the manufacture of plywood and plastics. Formaldehyde can also be found in a number of consumer products including some cosmetics and air fresheners. Formaldehyde fumes are released into the air through evaporation and off-gassing from such objects (1). Formalin is a solution of formaldehyde in water, often with 10-15% methanol (#1392) added to prevent polymerization.

A common source of formaldehyde exposure is release from urea-formaldehyde foam that has been injected into walls to act as insulation. Residual formaldehyde is released from this polymerized foam at a rate dependent on the temperature and humidity of the environment. Respiratory tract symptoms may become evident in people living in homes with formaldehyde levels above 0.03 ppm (2). Standards for exposure to formaldehyde vary from one country to another. Occupational exposure in the US is limited to 0.75 ppm (time-weighted average http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0293.html ). Non- occupational limits have been set at 0.1 to 0.4 ppm in most localities although there have been recommendations that the residential limit be reduced to 0.03 ppm (2).

The mutagenic properties of formaldehyde have been reported in a number of test systems (3,4) including cultured human cells (5,6). High doses increase the incidence of dominant lethal mutations in male mice (7) and rats (23) without inducing detectable chromosomal lesions during spermatogenesis, although adverse effects on spermatogenesis have been described (23,24). In general, however, few reproductive effects have been shown in experimental animals. Orally administered formaldehyde compounds were not teratogenic in mice or dogs (8-10). Topically applied formaldehyde was not teratogenic in hamsters (11). Inhalation studies in rats have associated formaldehyde with shortened gestational time, increased fetal resorptions (12,13), and reduced fetal content of ascorbic acid and nucleic acids (14). However, in more recent reports neither embryolethal nor teratogenic effects were observed following inhalation exposure of rats at levels up to 40 ppm (15,16). The injection of C14-labelled formaldehyde into pregnant mice has shown that this compound and its metabolites are transferred across the placenta and excreted more slowly by the fetuses than the mother (17). The reproductive effects of this finding are unclear, however, because no distinction was drawn in this study between the injected formaldehyde or its metabolites in the distribution of C-14 in the animals (17).

A Russian study that contained serious flaws in data reporting has suggested that workers exposed to 3 ppm formaldehyde had an excess of menstrual disorders, pelvic inflammatory disease, and secondary infertility, among a variety of other reproductive problems (19). A more recent study that used a questionnaire administered to female wood workers to collect data on pregnancy history, time to pregnancy, and occupational exposures, reported finding an association between reported formaldehyde exposure and reduced fertility (26). The data collected were limited to women who were willing to participate in the study (only 64% of the worker population) and therefore may have preferably represented the opinions those women who believed formaldehyde had caused their problems. Also, worker recall is often not an accurate method for defining worker exposures.

When considered as a group, the frequency of all congenital anomalies, but not of just major birth defects, was significantly increased in a cohort study of 271 infants of operating room nurses who reported exposure to formalin during the first trimester of pregnancy (20). Also, the frequency of spontaneous abortions was significantly increased in a cohort study of 316 operating room nurses who reported exposure to formalin during early pregnancy (20). In both of these study populations, exposure to formaldehyde was confounded by exposure to volatile anesthetics and ionizing radiation, which may have also played a role in the reported relationships (20). Weak associations with occupational exposure to formaldehyde during the first trimester of pregnancy were observed in case-control studies of 61 cosmetologists and 206 female laboratory workers who had miscarriages (odds ratio=2.1, 95% confidence interval 1.0-4.3 and odds ratio=3.5, 95% confidence interval 1.1-11.2, respectively) (21,22). In contrast, an earlier investigation into the effect of occupational exposure to formaldehyde in hospital workers did not demonstrate an increase in spontaneous abortion or birth defects in women exposed to formaldehyde before and during pregnancy when compared to those employees not so exposed (18). A 2001 review authored by university and industry-based toxicologists concluded that formaldehyde exposures encountered in typical workplaces are not likely to pose a risk of adverse reproductive or developmental effects in workers (27).

In one report on the formaldehyde content of milk of goats fed various levels of formaldehyde-treated soybean oil- meal, about 0.02% of ingested formaldehyde was excreted in milk as free formaldehyde (25).

Selected References

1. http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/eh/indoorair/voc/formald ehyde.htm

2. Harris JC et al: Toxicology of urea formaldehyde and polyurethane foam insulation. J Am Med Assoc 245:243-6, 1981.

3. Connor TH et al: Mutagenicity of formalin in the Ames assay. Mutat Res 119:145-149,1983.

4. Nishioka H: Lethal and mutagenic action of formaldehyde in Hcr+ and Hcr- strains of Escherichia coli. Mutat Res 17:261-265, 1973.

5. Goldmacher VS and Thilly WG: Formaldehyde is mutagenic for cultured human cells. Mutat Res 116:417-422, 1983.

6. Brusick DJ: Genetic and transforming activity of formaldehyde (In) Formaldehyde Toxicity Gibson JE (ed) Hemisphere Publ Co. Washington/NY/London 1983 p. 72-84.

7. Fontignie-Houbrechts N: Genetic effects of formaldehyde in the mouse. Mutat Res 88:109-114, 1981.

8. Hurni H and Ohder H: Reproduction study with formaldehyde and dexamethylenetetramine in beagle dogs. Food Cosmet Toxicol 11:459-62, 1973.

9. Marks TA et al: Influence of formaldehyde and Sonacide (potentiated acid glutaraldehyde) on embryos and fetal development in mice. Teratology 22:51-8, 1980.

10. Ma TH, Harris MM: Review of the genotoxicity of formaldehyde. Mutat Res 196:37-59, 1988.

11. Overman DO: Testing for percutaneous embryotoxicity of laboratory reagents in the hamster. Teratology 23:56A, 1981.

12. Gofmekler VA: Effect on embryonic development of benzene and formaldehyde in inhalation experiments. Hyg Sanit 33:327-32, 1968.

13. Gofmekler VA, Bonashevskaya TI: Experimental studies of teratogenic properties of formaldehyde, based on pathological investigations. Hyg Sanit 34:266-8, 1968.

14. Pushkina NN et al: Changes in the content of ascorbic acid and nucleic acids produced by benzene and formaldehyde. Bull Ex Biol Med 66: 868-869, 1968.

15. Saillenfait AM et al: The effects of maternally inhaled formaldehyde on embryonal and foetal development in rats. Food Chem Toxicol 27:545-548, 1989.

16. Martin WJ: A teratology study of inhaled formaldehyde in the rat. Reprod Toxicol 4: 237-9, 1990.

17. Katakura Y, Kishi R, Okui T, Ikeda T, Miyake H: Distribution of radioactivity from 14C-formaldehyde in pregnant mice and their fetuses. Br J Ind Med 50: 176-82, 1993.

18. Hemminki K et al: Spontaneous abortions in hospital staff engaged in sterilizing instruments with chemical agents. Br Med J 285:1461-3, 1982.

19. Shumilina AV: Menstrual and child-bearing functions of female-workers occupationally exposed to the effects of formaldehyde. (Russian) Gig Trud Prof Zabol 19:18-21, 1975.

20. Saurel-Cubizolles MJ, Hays M, Estryn-Behar M: Work in operating rooms and pregnancy outcome among nurses. Int Arch Occup Environ Health 66:235-241, 1994.

21. John EM, Savitz DA, Shy CM: Spontaneous abortions among cosmetologists. Epidemiology 5:147-155, 1994.

22. Taskinen H, Kyyronen P, Hemminki K, et al.: Laboratory work and pregnancy outcome. J Occup Med 36(3):311-319, 1994.

23. Odeigah PG: Sperm head abnormalities and dominant lethal effects of formaldehyde in albino rats. Mutat Res 1997; 389: 141-8.

24. Majumder PK, Kumar VL: Inhibitory effects of formaldehyde on the reproductive system of male rats. Indian J Physiol Pharmacol 1995; 39: 80-2.

25. Barry JL, Tome D: Formaldehyde content of milk in goats fed formaldehyde-treated soybean oil-meal. Food Addit Contam 1991; 8: 633-40.

26. Taskinen HK, KyyrOonen P, Sallm en M et al: Reduced fertility among female wood workers exposed to formaldehyde. Am J Ind Med 1999;36:206-12.

27. Collins JJ, Ness R, Tyl RW, Krivanek N, Esmen NA, Hall TA: A review of adverse pregnancy outcomes and formaldehyde exposure in human and animal studies. Regul Toxicol Pharmacol 2001;34:17-34.


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## pjb2cool (Apr 8, 2004)

Insomniak said:


> Since I'm at work and bored, I might as well share what I found. Hope this formats correctly.
> 
> REPROTOXÂ®
> 
> ...










Holy Cow...you MUST be bored...Thanks for sharing???..


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## Campforthenight (Apr 1, 2007)




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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

It's been over a year now, and our OB still burns our eyes if it has been closed up for a while. Especially inside cabinets and really bad in the spaces under the front bunks.

And yes, it sits in the driveway and I open windows on every occasion, and have two (covered) roof vents that stay open all the time.


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