# 2007 Diesel Fuel



## JimBo99 (Apr 25, 2006)

I drive a 2006 Dodge diesel and have noticed the new signs on the pumps that state the fuel is not suitable and could even do harm to 2007's. Where do 2007's get fuel and when the fuel is changed at the pump for 2007's will 2006 and prior diesels need an additive. Anybody know? Thanks.


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

In the very near future you should be start seeing a new diesel fuel. Sulfur will be down from the current 500 ppm to 50 ppm...sort of like when we switched from leaded to unleaded fuel.

Gary


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

The biggest difference is the old stuff is Low Sulfur Fuel, with 500 ppm sulfur, and the new stuff for 2007 is Ultra-Low Sulfur Fuel, with 15 ppm sulfur. I got fuel up in New Hampshire this weekend, and it was the new stuff.

From everything I've read, '06 and older engines will be able to burn the new stuff without any problems, but the '07s and newer will need it. Sort of like Unleaded gas back in the '70s.

I also thought I read somewhere that one of the big three, not sure which one, got a wavier from the EPA, or whoever is behind this one, and their '07s will be able to safely use the 500 ppm stuff, but this is unsubstantiated.

As far as what will happen to an '07 if you burn 500 ppm diesel in it I don't know, but I know that I would want to find out, considering what they cost.

Tim

Gary must have posted while I was typing. I'm not sure whose numbers are correct, but you get the idea.


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## wingnut (Mar 21, 2005)

Just got out of school on the new fuel and engines. From what Cummins, Cat, Detroit, and Shell Oil told us the 07 Ultra Low Sulfer (ULS) fuel will run in the older engines. Sulfer was introduced to the fuel to lubricate the upper valve train, just like lead. Now that it has been removed, the fuel companies have reformulated the fuel with other additives to lubricate in it's place. Since the 07 engines are going to have an "aftertreatment" on the exhaust system, they cannot burn the sulfer. This aftertreatment basically is a catalytic converter made for diesel. it will trap the NOX the diesel produces and when it is full the ECM will tell the injectors to put extra fuel in the cylinder during the exhaust cycle. Because of the increase exhaust temps, when this fuel is introduced to the converter it will start a controled burn, this will burn off the excess polutants and restart the collection process. Big trucks will need to get the converter cleaned on a regular basis generally around the 200,000mile mark. According to what we were told no-one is exempt from this. Chrysler has discontinued models because of this. Because of the increase in running temps and the lack of sulfer, the oil companies also have had to reformulate the engine oils. THESE ARE NOT CROSS COMPATABLE. Be sure you get the right oil in your truck or NO WARRANTY! As I said before I just got out of this school they put on and they are very stern about this.


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

wingnut said:


> Just got out of school on the new fuel and engines. From what Cummins, Cat, Detroit, and Shell Oil told us the 07 Ultra Low Sulfer (ULS) fuel will run in the older engines. Sulfer was introduced to the fuel to lubricate the upper valve train, just like lead. Now that it has been removed, the fuel companies have reformulated the fuel with other additives to lubricate in it's place. Since the 07 engines are going to have an "aftertreatment" on the exhaust system, they cannot burn the sulfer. This aftertreatment basically is a catalytic converter made for diesel. it will trap the NOX the diesel produces and when it is full the ECM will tell the injectors to put extra fuel in the cylinder during the exhaust cycle. Because of the increase exhaust temps, when this fuel is introduced to the converter it will start a controled burn, this will burn off the excess polutants and restart the collection process. Big trucks will need to get the converter cleaned on a regular basis generally around the 200,000mile mark. According to what we were told no-one is exempt from this. Chrysler has discontinued models because of this. Because of the increase in running temps and the lack of sulfer, the oil companies also have had to reformulate the engine oils. THESE ARE NOT CROSS COMPATABLE. Be sure you get the right oil in your truck or NO WARRANTY! As I said before I just got out of this school they put on and they are very stern about this.


Good info! Thanks. I have also read that adding an additive like diesel kleen (or biodisel) on a regular basis will add lubricants that will help run the lower sulfer fuels.. Any truth to this?


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## Txcamper (Apr 3, 2006)

White Buffalo said:


> Just got out of school on the new fuel and engines. From what Cummins, Cat, Detroit, and Shell Oil told us the 07 Ultra Low Sulfer (ULS) fuel will run in the older engines. Sulfer was introduced to the fuel to lubricate the upper valve train, just like lead. Now that it has been removed, the fuel companies have reformulated the fuel with other additives to lubricate in it's place. Since the 07 engines are going to have an "aftertreatment" on the exhaust system, they cannot burn the sulfer. This aftertreatment basically is a catalytic converter made for diesel. it will trap the NOX the diesel produces and when it is full the ECM will tell the injectors to put extra fuel in the cylinder during the exhaust cycle. Because of the increase exhaust temps, when this fuel is introduced to the converter it will start a controled burn, this will burn off the excess polutants and restart the collection process. Big trucks will need to get the converter cleaned on a regular basis generally around the 200,000mile mark. According to what we were told no-one is exempt from this. Chrysler has discontinued models because of this. Because of the increase in running temps and the lack of sulfer, the oil companies also have had to reformulate the engine oils. THESE ARE NOT CROSS COMPATABLE. Be sure you get the right oil in your truck or NO WARRANTY! As I said before I just got out of this school they put on and they are very stern about this.


Good info! Thanks. I have also read that adding an additive like diesel kleen (or biodisel) on a regular basis will add lubricants that will help run the lower sulfer fuels.. Any truth to this?








[/quote]

I have read the biodiesel will make an engine run cleaner and last longer. It would be nice if all diesel was B5 or B10. And now bio is cheaper than petro diesel. Here is an interesting site with links.

http://houstonbiodiesel.com/index.htm


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

wingnut

Thanks for the great info.

Thor


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## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

wingnut said:


> Because of the increase in running temps and the lack of sulfer, the oil companies also have had to reformulate the engine oils. THESE ARE NOT CROSS COMPATABLE. Be sure you get the right oil in your truck or NO WARRANTY! As I said before I just got out of this school they put on and they are very stern about this.


So is it the gas that makes the motor run hotter or is it the new set up with the converter


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Wingnut,

Thanks for the info. Maybe I can add.

New fuel is 2PPM and will be phased in October. You are correct if you use 500PPM in the '07 models you will screw them up. Hence the fuel has to be available in sufficient quantity before the realease of the '07 vehicles which for GM is the January timeframe.

All pumps now must state that the fuel is 500PPM sulfer (GREEN STICKER) . Once we get 2PPM sulfer then the pumps will read that. I was under the understanding that NOX emissions are generally controlled by and EGR valve and that the '07 additions to the exhaust are to control soot. I suppose the '07 could control both.

Sleecjr-- The increase in temps sound to me like they are in the exhaust not in the engine. From the description you can see that they injected additional fuel during the exhaust cycle which would tend to decrease the engine temp but burning that excess off in the exhaust\catalytic converters would increase that temp. So I guess that is an open question in my mind.

I will put Stanadyne in my fuel on a regular basis as a result of all of this.


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

I must have 2PPM stuck in my brain. Mr Hatcity is correct the new fuel is 15PPM.

If you need reading material that will surely put you to sleep go to the epa site and read all about it.

Mike


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

sleecjr said:


> Because of the increase in running temps and the lack of sulfer, the oil companies also have had to reformulate the engine oils. THESE ARE NOT CROSS COMPATABLE. Be sure you get the right oil in your truck or NO WARRANTY! As I said before I just got out of this school they put on and they are very stern about this.


So is it the gas that makes the motor run hotter or is it the new set up with the converter








[/quote]

I agree Stanadyne is the way to go... or biodiesel if available....for pre 2007 vehicles.


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## wingnut (Mar 21, 2005)

The Cummins rep came in ny office today and we had a long discusion. he said to picture a cigar in the converter, When the extra fuel is introduced it is like taking a long drag on the cigar. No flames just a hot glow. This is mostly to burn the soot off like Mike said. some off the manufactures are planning to move the EGR valve behind the converter. this burn will let the EGR valve put less soot back in the engine, and help decrease NOX. The oil companieshave already added what is needed in the new formulas of the oil. It will be important to make sure you get the right one.


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## JimBo99 (Apr 25, 2006)

wingnut said:


> The Cummins rep came in ny office today and we had a long discusion. he said to picture a cigar in the converter, When the extra fuel is introduced it is like taking a long drag on the cigar. No flames just a hot glow. This is mostly to burn the soot off like Mike said. some off the manufactures are planning to move the EGR valve behind the converter. this burn will let the EGR valve put less soot back in the engine, and help decrease NOX. The oil companieshave already added what is needed in the new formulas of the oil. It will be important to make sure you get the right one.


Thanks a bunch wingnut ( and to all who have answered my question well). You are appreciated!


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

"I also thought I read somewhere that one of the big three, not sure which one, got a wavier from the EPA, or whoever is behind this one, and their '07s will be able to safely use the 500 ppm stuff, but this is unsubstantiated."

This is possibly a reference to the fact that "2007" models of GM diesel pickups have two different engines; the older one being known as the "Heritage" model. It will no longer be produced after the end of the year. The newer engine will be the only engine as of 1 Jan 2007.

One of the problems affecting diesel prices and availability in some areas, is that the phase-in is already well underway. If you bought diesel this week, there is a good chance you got the new formulation. It works fine in the older engines; the old stuff isn't allowed in the newer engines. According to GM the the newer fuel's reformulation takes into account the loss of lubricity from the reduction in sulphur, and no consumer-added additives are necessary.

Slug


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## HandyAndy (Oct 18, 2005)

Leftist coast (CA) had to make the swith to the ULS 15ppm fuel back in June. We have no options here. The only problems we've had in our FedEx trucks is the fuel/water filters are noot working as well leading to surging at idle speed, but no problems at hwy speed. Of course the other side effect is fuel is currently $3.29 per gal.


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## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

White Buffalo said:


> Because of the increase in running temps and the lack of sulfer, the oil companies also have had to reformulate the engine oils. THESE ARE NOT CROSS COMPATABLE. Be sure you get the right oil in your truck or NO WARRANTY! As I said before I just got out of this school they put on and they are very stern about this.


So is it the gas that makes the motor run hotter or is it the new set up with the converter








[/quote]

I agree Stanadyne is the way to go... or biodiesel if available....for pre 2007 vehicles.








[/quote]

I have read a few places that a great additive is 2 stroke oil. And you add it to your gas. I have never done this because im not sure about it. Has any one heard about this?


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Great info wingnut!









But I do have a question... If the converter just holds the sulfer particulates for a period of time, and then 'burns them off', doesn't the bad stuff still end up in the environment? Just all in one place now, instead of diluted by the miles it would be distributed over without a converter? What exactly are we gaining here?









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Doug,

What you are gaining is making the soot more inert making it less able to react with other elements and producing undesirable compoungs. Analogy is sulfer and NOX make rain acidic.

Mike


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## jnk36jnk (Mar 9, 2004)

You might want to check out www.biodiesel.org, it has some good info, plus links to the major diesel engine manufacturers


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