# Two Scissor Jacks



## Firefighter2104 (Apr 25, 2004)

When I was at the Rally in Cananda last year someone had Scissor Jacks in the middle of their camper.

My question is I bought two jacks and I am not sure where would be the best place to install them. Should I put one on each side by the back tire, one by the front tire and one on the other side by the back tire or could someone tell me a better loaction.

I am trying to take the shake out or at least as much as possible.

Another idea I had was to take the two off the back and install the scissor jacks and put the two old ones up in the middle.









Bill


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## Swany (Mar 2, 2006)

Firefighter2104 said:


> When I was at the Rally in Cananda last year someone had Scissor Jacks in the middle of their camper.
> 
> My question is I bought two jacks and I am not sure where would be the best place to install them. Should I put one on each side by the back tire, one by the front tire and one on the other side by the back tire or could someone tell me a better loaction.
> 
> ...


Just installed scissor jacks on my 27RSDS. The factory ones are useless. They have no leverage to provide lift to the trailer. Keystone knows this but took the Low (cheap) road.

That being said, I put 4 scissors on. Camping World has them. Every now and then they go on Sale for about $65 a pair. On my trailer (27RSDS) they have adequate ground clearance but would have plenty of vertical lift for a much higher trailer. I devised a clamp gizmo to attach them as I did not want to drill the lower flange of the I beam frame.

The scissor type jacks have way more leverage than the stock jacks and really take the bounce out of the trailer.

A word of caution though. When experimenting with placement of the scissor jacks I tried positions near the stock jacks. On my trailer the stock jacks are right at each of the 4 corners of the TT. When I put the kind of lift it takes to make the TT feel solid, the rear door (27RSDS has a door about 2 feet forward of the back end and the stock jack is behind it near the bumper) Got real stickie. The coach was flexing. I finally set the new jacks just ahead of the rear door and just at the back of the front door. This placement works fine.

It is a good upgrade and Keystone should have provided adequate jacks from the get go.

Good luck.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Bill,

I would suggest going scissor jacks on all four corners only. They will really help with the shake. My fear of adding jacks in the center would be undue flexing you could cause on the frame. You would have to be very careful not to crank those center jacks down too hard.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

I would worry about the flexing if they were at the corners.

The scissor jacks have a whole lot more lifting capacity than the stabilizers do and if you crank on them, you could flex the frame. This would be far more possible at the ends than the middle. That is why the originals are called stabilizers instead of leveling jacks.

There are some trailers out there that can be lifted off the ground with their scissor jacks, but the frames are a lot more sturdier than the OB's. The most obvious way to tell if you are flexing the frame is to check your door(s). They won't be square in the frame or open without dragging if the frame is flexed.

Steve


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## Swany (Mar 2, 2006)

PDX_Doug said:


> Bill,
> 
> I would suggest going scissor jacks on all four corners only. They will really help with the shake. My fear of adding jacks in the center would be undue flexing you could cause on the frame. You would have to be very careful not to crank those center jacks down too hard.
> 
> ...


I don't know. When you are bouncing down the road isn't the TT supported in the middle by the suspension? When you jack the trailer up to change a tire isn't that in the middle?

I put mine about 3 and 1/2 feet in from each end. They work fine and I'm not worrying about the frame. biggest worry I have about the frame is all of the holes the factory drilled in the bottom flange to fasten the belly cover on.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

You are correct ..supported in the middle, when you level using jacks, you are 'hanging' the weight the suspension holds.

The way I can explain it is a aerial ladder on a firetruck. It is designed to support itself and a load. If you rest the tip of the ladder on a roof, it is no longer supporting itself, so when men (weight) climb it, the weight is transfered backwards and it can fail.


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

tdvffjohn said:


> You are correct ..supported in the middle, when you level using jacks, you are 'hanging' the weight the suspension holds.
> 
> The way I can explain it is a aerial ladder on a firetruck. It is designed to support itself and a load. If you rest the tip of the ladder on a roof, it is no longer supporting itself, so when men (weight) climb it, the weight is transfered backwards and it can fail.


But......can it take off?


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

skippershe said:


> You are correct ..supported in the middle, when you level using jacks, you are 'hanging' the weight the suspension holds.
> 
> The way I can explain it is a aerial ladder on a firetruck. It is designed to support itself and a load. If you rest the tip of the ladder on a roof, it is no longer supporting itself, so when men (weight) climb it, the weight is transfered backwards and it can fail.


But......can it take off?








[/quote]

Oh great....here we go again.


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## bill_pfaff (Mar 11, 2005)

John, That was good. I think I got it!


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

I installed scissor jacks at my front corners as my stock stabilizers collapsed and bent while I was using them to bear the weight of the trailer while I was changing a block under the tongue jack. Fortunately, the trailer only dropped two or three inches onto the tongue jack. But both stabilizers wre shot. I will be changing the rear stabilizers to scissors this spring. I will then mount the stock stabilizers somewhere in the middle of the TT.

Scott


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## Swany (Mar 2, 2006)

Moosegut said:


> I installed scissor jacks at my front corners as my stock stabilizers collapsed and bent while I was using them to bear the weight of the trailer while I was changing a block under the tongue jack. Fortunately, the trailer only dropped two or three inches onto the tongue jack. But both stabilizers wre shot. I will be changing the rear stabilizers to scissors this spring. I will then mount the stock stabilizers somewhere in the middle of the TT.
> 
> Scott


Suggest that you proceed with the scissor jacks. Pull them in from the ends a few feet. Once you try them out I'm sure you will install the stock "stabilizers" in the garbage can as I did.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Swany said:


> Once you try them out I'm sure you will install the stock "stabilizers" in the garbage can as I did.


LOL....

Based on that logic, I guess we all had a few garbage can Mods....


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## Scott and Jamie (Aug 27, 2006)

Even the scissor jacks shouldn't be used to lift or level  the trailer. My 18' SOB had scissor jacks and the salesman explained how you should always level the trailer with blocks under the tires and use the jacks to help stabalize the trailer. The trailers frame are designed to be supported at the axels and only be stabalized at the corners. The scissor jacks can support the weight but is very week to front to back and side to side forces and the frame of the trailer can easily be twisted if the jacks are not raised equally.

We just use two old fashion screw jacks right in front of the front tire. We just snug them up enough to keep the suspension still and it takes all of the bounce out. This would be a great place for the scissor jacks but they still shouldn't be used to lift the trailer.


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## bentpixel (Sep 2, 2006)

I found this installation manuel form BAL. If these are your jack it may help. I hope to get a pair someday and mount them as close as practical behind the rear tires. Then I should be able to safely level side to side, without lifting the tires off the ground. Lastly, put the Deluxe BAL chocks on for that showroom solid feel.









Best of Luck,
Scott


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

bentpixel said:


> I found this installation manuel form BAL. If these are your jack it may help. I hope to get a pair someday and mount them as close as practical behind the rear tires. Then I should be able to safely level side to side, without lifting the tires off the ground. Lastly, put the Deluxe BAL chocks on for that showroom solid feel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now there's a term I've never heard before - "that showroom solid feel." Hmmm.


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## Swany (Mar 2, 2006)

Scott and Jamie said:


> Even the scissor jacks shouldn't be used to lift or level  the trailer. My 18' SOB had scissor jacks and the salesman explained how you should always level the trailer with blocks under the tires and use the jacks to help stabalize the trailer. The trailers frame are designed to be supported at the axels and only be stabalized at the corners. The scissor jacks can support the weight but is very week to front to back and side to side forces and the frame of the trailer can easily be twisted if the jacks are not raised equally.
> 
> We just use two old fashion screw jacks right in front of the front tire. We just snug them up enough to keep the suspension still and it takes all of the bounce out. This would be a great place for the scissor jacks but they still shouldn't be used to lift the trailer.


I level with blocks and tongue jack first. I install two of the of the chocks that go in between the wheels and I crank them up tight. Then crank the scissor jacks down snug to the ground. Then I go around the the jacks one more time and turn them up 5 turns. As I do this I can see the coach lift on the springs. Then the TT is solid.

That's my story and I'm stickn' to it.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Moosegut said:


> I found this installation manuel form BAL. If these are your jack it may help. I hope to get a pair someday and mount them as close as practical behind the rear tires. Then I should be able to safely level side to side, without lifting the tires off the ground. Lastly, put the Deluxe BAL chocks on for that showroom solid feel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now there's a term I've never heard before - "that showroom solid feel." Hmmm.
[/quote]

That is truely a strange tag line. How about "rock solid"?


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## Scott and Jamie (Aug 27, 2006)

Oregon_Camper said:


> I found this installation manuel form BAL. If these are your jack it may help. I hope to get a pair someday and mount them as close as practical behind the rear tires. Then I should be able to safely level side to side, without lifting the tires off the ground. Lastly, put the Deluxe BAL chocks on for that showroom solid feel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now there's a term I've never heard before - "that showroom solid feel." Hmmm.
[/quote]

That is truely a strange tag line. How about "rock solid"?
[/quote]

I really liked the feel of mine up on blocks with no tires


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

I installed mine about two feet in from the front and back corners. You need to get them as close to the corners as possible for stability, but not so close that you'll rip one of them off if the trailer dips fore or aft while maneuvering on bumpy terrain.

Take a string and put one end under the front or rear tire. Pull the other end to the rear bumper (for the rear tire) and the other end to the front of the trailer (for the front tire). That will make a triangle that shows you the clearance you have to work with. Hold the jack against the underside of the frame and move it until the bottom of the jack doesn't hit the string, then move it another couple of inches for good measure.

The Outbacks don't have much ground clearance (unless it's a Sydney, or you did an axle flip), and it isn't hard to scrape the ground when it's uneven and the trailer is pivoting at the ball joint.......or so I hear....


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## Cats4Nat (Jan 28, 2004)

If scissors jacks are installed, do they drag at all when going over bumps?

We were going to have some installed when we first bought our 25RSS, but dealer said trailer was too low to accomodate them. Maybe it was the ones he was trying to use.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

location, location, location.

If you put the rear ones at the very back of the chassis, yea, you will hit them. Go in a few feet and better clearance .


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## daniel.falardeau (Aug 31, 2006)

Hi,

have you considered stabjacks.
http://www.rvstabjack.com
I saw that at the RV show yesterday and the inventor pretend that, installed on scisor jacks, it will eliminate shake and vibration up to 95%.

Personaly, I am planing on installing scisor jacks at 4 corners, replacing the original T style jacks, and the stabjack system.

I would'nt recomend using any kind on jacks for leveling but rather simple wood planks under the wheels.
It costs almost nothing and there is no risk of frame damage.

Enjoy !

Dan


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## Firefighter2104 (Apr 25, 2004)

I was only going to use them as stabilizers. Not to left the trailer, but on the other hand if I install them behind the rear ties and if I ever have a flat tire it should be easy to change it.









I think I am going to leave the old ones on and install the scissors jacks behind the tires.

My next project will be installing a bike rack.


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

The stabilizer jacks that come standard on the Outback are worthless - especially the one's up front as they point the wrong way - toward the front !! They don't do a thing for lateral stability. The scissor jacks are a tremendous improvement, and I too give them a few cranks after they hit my wood blocks. You have to take some of the load off of the leaf springs for real stability. I re-installed my stock jacks in the nearest dumpster along with my WFCO converter.

Another great Camping World purchase was the little adjustable jack that goes under the bottom entry step. No more "boing, boing" as you walk into the trailer. Showroom solid.....


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

Moosegut said:


> I installed scissor jacks at my front corners as my stock stabilizers collapsed and bent while I was using them to bear the weight of the trailer while I was changing a block under the tongue jack. Fortunately, the trailer only dropped two or three inches onto the tongue jack. But both stabilizers wre shot. I will be changing the rear stabilizers to scissors this spring. I will then mount the stock stabilizers somewhere in the middle of the TT.
> 
> Scott


Not to pick on anyone, but the stabilizers were never meant to bear the weight of the trailer, only to brace some of the shake out of it. If you depend upon the stabilizers to hold the trailer up they will almost certainly fail.

Reverie


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

Reverie said:


> Not to pick on anyone, but the stabilizers were never meant to bear the weight of the trailer, only to brace some of the shake out of it. If you depend upon the stabilizers to hold the trailer up they will almost certainly fail.
> 
> Reverie


Rev,

I know that. But, when you're between a rock and a hard place (literally, because I was on such a slope that I had to use the stabilizers in order to take a block out from under the tongue jack) there's not much you can do. That's why I only raised the tongue jack just enough to get the block out. At home, I have to store my trailer on a hill and below is what I made to stabilize it. The tongue and left stabilzers are modular so I can use them in pieces to raise the trailer to the desired height. Once it's up on the blocks, it's rock solid.


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## Firefighter2104 (Apr 25, 2004)

Moosegut said:


> Not to pick on anyone, but the stabilizers were never meant to bear the weight of the trailer, only to brace some of the shake out of it. If you depend upon the stabilizers to hold the trailer up they will almost certainly fail.
> 
> Reverie


Rev,

I know that. But, when you're between a rock and a hard place (literally, because I was on such a slope that I had to use the stabilizers in order to take a block out from under the tongue jack) there's not much you can do. That's why I only raised the tongue jack just enough to get the block out. At home, I have to store my trailer on a hill and below is what I made to stabilize it. The tongue and left stabilzers are modular so I can use them in pieces to raise the trailer to the desired height. Once it's up on the blocks, it's rock solid.


















[/quote]

Moosegut,

I would hate to see how your house sets.









However that is a nice block work.









LOL


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

During our PDI, our dealer said, "Never, Never, Never use the stabilizers to level or lift the trailer."









The owner's manual says the same thing.

The trailer is designed to distribute the weight evenly over the length of the frame (downward force). My understanding is that the frame will flex when you apply upward force at the corners. When the frame flexes too much, and the windows and doors do not, it causes the windows/doors to "cant" inside the openings in the sidewall. After awhile (depending on how much you lift with the jacks), the windows may start leaking where they join the sidewalls, and the seam where the roof meets the side walls may open up and start leaking, as well.

We use boards to level side-to-side (I would love to get a set of the Lynks Leveler blocks), then use the tongue jack to level front-to-rear. I then lower the stabilizers, using my cordless drill/driver. I set the torque on the drill/driver appropriately so that I get the same slight tension at each corner (I cut down a stabilizer tool to fit in the drill chuck - a GREAT time and energy saver - especially when it's hot!).

I use the BAL wheel chocks (that wedge between the wheels) to take all of the front-to-rear movement out. They work great and the trailer is "rock solid." (When we had our Coleman pop-up, that dealer said the same thing - no leveling with the stabilizers - that's why they are called stabilizers, and not leveling jacks.)

Just my $.02.

Mike


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Moosegut said:


>


Man...I have a strong urge to play Jenga all of a sudden.


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

Oregon_Camper said:


>


Man...I have a strong urge to play Jenga all of a sudden.







[/quote]















That was pretty good. They are, of course, all screwed together nicely.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Moosegut said:


> Not to pick on anyone, but the stabilizers were never meant to bear the weight of the trailer, only to brace some of the shake out of it. If you depend upon the stabilizers to hold the trailer up they will almost certainly fail.
> 
> Reverie


Rev,

I know that. But, when you're between a rock and a hard place (literally, because I was on such a slope that I had to use the stabilizers in order to take a block out from under the tongue jack) there's not much you can do. That's why I only raised the tongue jack just enough to get the block out. At home, I have to store my trailer on a hill and below is what I made to stabilize it. The tongue and left stabilzers are modular so I can use them in pieces to raise the trailer to the desired height. Once it's up on the blocks, it's rock solid.

[
[/quote]

There is a difference between using the stabilizers to lift or level the trailer and what Scott did. I twice was on a very uneven site. In order to get level, I raised the toungue jack as high as I could, lowered the stabilizers using wood snug to the ground. Gently raised the trailer jack so I could slide another block under the tongue to get the nose higher. It was my only choice. Yes , the trailer was supported by the stabilizers but they were not moved while they were holding the weight.

John


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## Swany (Mar 2, 2006)

tdvffjohn said:


> Not to pick on anyone, but the stabilizers were never meant to bear the weight of the trailer, only to brace some of the shake out of it. If you depend upon the stabilizers to hold the trailer up they will almost certainly fail.
> 
> Reverie


Rev,

I know that. But, when you're between a rock and a hard place (literally, because I was on such a slope that I had to use the stabilizers in order to take a block out from under the tongue jack) there's not much you can do. That's why I only raised the tongue jack just enough to get the block out. At home, I have to store my trailer on a hill and below is what I made to stabilize it. The tongue and left stabilzers are modular so I can use them in pieces to raise the trailer to the desired height. Once it's up on the blocks, it's rock solid. 
I believe that the word "stabilizer" is a wiggle word that translates to insufficient but cheap enough to cause the factory to use it. If they call it a "stabilizer" it can't be expected to work properly, right! I'm thinking that the person(s) in the front queen bed shouldn't be catapulted out of bed every time somebody crawles in or out of the rear queen.

[
[/quote]

There is a difference between using the stabilizers to lift or level the trailer and what Scott did. I twice was on a very uneven site. In order to get level, I raised the toungue jack as high as I could, lowered the stabilizers using wood snug to the ground. Gently raised the trailer jack so I could slide another block under the tongue to get the nose higher. It was my only choice. Yes , the trailer was supported by the stabilizers but they were not moved while they were holding the weight.

John
[/quote]


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## Campforthenight (Apr 1, 2007)

This was one of the first Mods I have done to my 07 23krs. For the life of me I absolutely cannot understand why Keystone would install stabilizers labeled "TENT CAMPER JACK w/one piece arm part #23007". I do not think my tt is a tent camper and it did not even come close to stabilizing my unit. I am very disappointed with Keystone, even my sons Prowler had scissor jacks as standard equipment and it was a cheaper (Less expensive) unit.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

This is on the list of things to get done. I want 4 sissor jacks vs. the factory ones.


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