# '08 Ford Sd W/6.4l Recall



## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Ford Motor Company has told dealers not to sell or deliver certain 2008 F250, F350, F450 or F550 models with the new 6.4L PowerStroke diesel engines made from 03 April to 21 May at their Kentucky Truck Plant. According to Ford, some of the vehicles have faulty fuel injectors in cylinders 1, 5 and 7. The bad injectors will cause the vehicle to run rough, hesitate or stumble on acceleration.

The recall issue number is: R07T07.

I love my 02 SC and wish Ford the best with their turnaround program but I wouldn't touch one of those trucks with the Navistar motor. This problem (edit - does not) sound like a Ford problem though - something about (edit - Navistar) not testing the motors correctly at the assembly plant.









-CC

Edit - saw this over at BlueOval Forums which referenced the Ford PowerStroke forums for additional info.

Edit 2 - After an edit over on the BlueOval Forums - this does sound like it was a problem at the supplier - Navistar.


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

I honestly feel bad for Ford. I gave up on them a long time ago but it hurts to see all the problems they seem to have with an otherwise awsom looking truck.

John


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

I hope they can solve this easy. They were looking for buyer confidence and missed


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## Tiger02 (Apr 16, 2006)

If you get on the most popular Ford forums (dieselstop.com and Ford truck enthusiast), you'll see how few problems Ford has had with these new trucks. They had a reflash early on, but fixed it quickly. Only time will tell, but so far it has gone much better than the nay sayers expected and it's hard to find owners that have complaints about them.

The 1,5,&7 injector swap came from Navistar and only effects 3100 vehicles. I know this goes both ways, but there are quite a few folks that came over from GMCs and Dodges after test driving the 08 Ford HDs.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

No way was I trying to bash the Ford or its diesels. They have taken a beating because of the fact that you only read the neg in print or online which is unfortunately normal with any problems any manufacturer of anything has. The new design, I would think was an improvement and a way of seperating from past issues.


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

tdvffjohn said:


> No way was I trying to bash the Ford or its diesels. They have taken a beating because of the fact that you only read the neg in print or online which is unfortunately normal with any problems any manufacturer of anything has. The new design, I would think was an improvement and a way of seperating from past issues.


John,

Your statement, "I gave up on them a long time ago but it hurts to see all the problems they seem to have..." sounds something like bashing to me. For this new 6.4 liter engine, what are "all the problems" besides the fuel injectors? I have heard of Duramax problems (more than one problem, where each problem affected way more than 3100 engines) but I don't feel the need to write off GM or its engine. Matter of fact, when we bought our truck we might have bought a Dodge or GMC instead becasue each had good points that were weighed against the competition. I don't know why it's so important to validate a buying decision by running down the brand that wasn't purchased.

BTW, so far we haven't had a minute's problem with our Powerstroke and we don't expect any either.

Bill


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

tdvffjohn said:


> No way was I trying to bash the Ford or its diesels. They have taken a beating because of the fact that you only read the neg in print or online which is unfortunately normal with any problems any manufacturer of anything has. The new design, I would think was an improvement and a way of seperating from past issues.


John,

Your statement, "I gave up on them a long time ago but it hurts to see all the problems they seem to have..." sounds something like bashing to me.

Bill
[/quote]

Where did you find that statement????????????????

I looked at all 3 diesels when I bought and stated way back when that I purchased a GM because I could not afford the new Mega Cab and I felt the GM had the biggest rear seat room in a used truck I could afford.

If you don t think the neg jumps out at you, see the Keystone is a screw up thread here. It made everyone read it.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Sounds like we are getting our Johns mixed up!

While I did not sense any bashing in this thread, the quote that Bill is referencing came from johnp2000, not tdvffjohn!

Few debates around here stir the emotions more than who's truck is better. Let's all keep in mind that everybody has their own opinions, based on their own experiences. So far the posts on this thread have been restrained and reasonable. I for one, will be a happy camper if they stay that way!

Oh, and BTW... Have I mentioned lately what an awsome truck my Titan is?










Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

tdvffjohn - I did not take your statements as bashing at all. What gets me is that from this guys' perspective, the 08SD is the best truck and chassis out there but the Navistar motor is just a deal-breaker (for me). I wish we had taken pictures when we were at Lakeshore RV. One of the drivers from Hastings Delivery Service had a F350 with the 6.0PSD. It was a long bed dually. Beautiful deep red color. All along the sides he had spray painted in white "lemon...6.0 Ford junk. Call me 123-456-7890". Like you, it just saddens me to see this playing out for Ford who does not need this kind of publicity at this point in time. For me at this point in time, Navistar translates into "buyer beware".

It will be more interesting when the '10 model year rolls around and the "not so rumored" 6.8l Scorpion diesel with the cgi block makes its' debut (maybe...hehe).

-CC


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

I was not bashing Ford I gave that up a while back. I am also don't follow one brand. I would have bought an Excursion but my choices there were 7.3 great engine bad tranny or 6.0 and its problems. I just jumped ship from Chevy to Dodge for the Cummins diesel. I love the new 08 Ford trucks its whats under the hood that makes me shy away.

John


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## GlacierPeaks (Jan 22, 2007)

johnp2000 said:


> . . .its whats under the hood that makes me shy away.


I am looking at buying a new truck. I am willing to purchase any of the big three, although I'm leaning more toward DC or Ford right now (Chevy's "new" body style does nothing for me).

My current truck has the "problem plagued" 6.0 Powerstroke diesel. I have 42,000 miles on it and my "problems" list includes the following:

1. 1 sensor O ring replaced under warranty.
2. Stupid smile on my face every time I drive it!

My brother bought a 2006 Mega Cab and modded the heck out of it (600+ RWHP). Very nice truck, even when it was stock.

I realize there are many that have had ALOT more problems with their 6.0 Powerstrokes than I have experienced and am watching the posts at thedieselstop.com and thedieselgarage.com considering the new 6.4 engine very closely. So far I have to say about the new Ford, *"it's what's under the hood that makes me want one."*

-Chris


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

GlacierPeaks said:


> , *"it's what's under the hood that makes me want one."*
> -Chris


What's under the hood???

A new, emissions-correct powerplant from a producer that has had issues.

A twin turbo diesel engine.......oops....Ford wants you to think it is a twin turbo.....it is actually a dual turbo setup that has a small turbo for low rpm's and a larger one for higher rpms, since they couldn't get the computer programmed correctly to control the variable vane turbo that was installed on the 6.0.

A truck is a truck, is a truck.........it's all in what you want and like.

Steve


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

The nature of ALL turbocharged engines is that either:
1) the turbo is small thus it spools up rapidly but it isn't large enough to give large horsepower gains OR
2) the turbo is large and adds lots of power but it takes awhile to spool up (turbo lag)

Variable vane turbochargers succeed somewhat by being large enough for good power with a quicker spool-up than non-variable vane. The new two stage turbo is better yet, it's designed to get quick boost from the smaller turbo and high volume boost from the second (larger) turbo. Now, why would anyone think Ford did wrong by doing that?









Bill


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Ford didn't do anything wrong...nor right when it comes to that dual turbo setup. Remember...the manufacturer of the motor is Navistar. I am not an expert by far on anything related to diesel engines but something seems odd about the dual turbo setup. I know that manufacturers tell drivers of turbo powered vehicles to idle the motors after a hard drive to let the turbo cool abit. Just thinking that having one turbo blow through another (which makes the incoming air to the larger turbo even hotter) kinda makes me wonder about longevity on that second, larger turbo. Of course, like I said, I am not any sort of turbo guru at all so that concern could be completely unfounded.

I am waiting on the 6.8l cgi Scorpion before I make a choice (assuming accurate information becomes available in the next 18 or so months) on a diesel truck. The upcoming 4.4l diesel in the F150 also presents an interesting choice...I just wish they would increase the size of the F150SC's back seat to something closer to the CrewMax's and MegaCab's...or even the 08 Ford SD CrewCab.

The different type of variable vane setup on the new Cummins 6.7 has piqued my interest.

-CC


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## GlacierPeaks (Jan 22, 2007)

huntr70 said:


> , *"it's what's under the hood that makes me want one."*
> -Chris


What's under the hood???

A new, emissions-correct powerplant from a producer that has had issues.

A twin turbo diesel engine.......oops....Ford wants you to think it is a twin turbo.....it is actually a dual turbo setup that has a small turbo for low rpm's and a larger one for higher rpms, since they couldn't get the computer programmed correctly to control the variable vane turbo that was installed on the 6.0.

A truck is a truck, is a truck.........it's all in what you want and like.

Steve
[/quote]

The _dual_ turbo setup is identical to the twin turbo setup my brother had installed on his 2006 Dodge (smaller turbo feeding a larger one). What a difference that made on his truck! Impressive boost with comparitivly no turbo lag. There are kits available to retrofit most of the older diesel pickups with twin (smaller one for spool-up, larger one for mid to upper power band) turbos available right now as well, and selling quite well judging by the posts on the diesel sites by people who have installed them on their trucks. BTW, VGT turbo problems have nothing to do with computer programing (but I won't address that here), nor did the twin. . .sorry. . .dual turbo setup come as a replacement for a problem (one of the turbos is still a variable geometry turbo in the 6.4).

Ford, GM, Dodge, International, Isuzu, Cummins, Toyota, Tonka. . .what engine manufactorer hasn't had issues?

I am impressed with the way every person I personally know of that had an "issue" with their 6.0 engine, no matter to what degree, had their problems resolved by Ford, one friend even had his truck bought back by Ford! A lot of those issues could very well have been attributed to 'aftermarket performance modifications' that were not part of the original warranty to start with!

Can I say the same for all manufacturers? Not in my experience:

1996 Cracked block on a Cummins engine, no warranty. A subsequent pattern of similer failures around the country proved that there was a engineering flaw in most of the Cummins blocks around that production time, that severely compromised the blocks integrity.

2001 Piston slap in the Chevrolet 6.0, gasser. Chevy said "it's supposed to do that". After years of fighting their own customers in a legal battle over this issue, they finally issued a recall.

2007 Just read of a lawsuit that has been going on for several years dealing with carbon build-up in a few of Toyota's engines. Toyota acknowledged the problem, even offered an extended warranty dealing with that specific issue, then denied most all the claims against that warranty, saying it was the owners lack of maintenence that caused the problem. Toyota has now agreed to take care of those problems, years later.

I am still very interested in looking at all new trucks, I haven't made up my mind yet. I will probably not order a truck until this fall. I see a consistant pattern of problems poping up in the new Dodge 6.7 Cummins that I want to watch and see how the new "Chrysler" takes care of their customers.


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

GlacierPeaks said:


> , *"it's what's under the hood that makes me want one."*
> -Chris


What's under the hood???

A new, emissions-correct powerplant from a producer that has had issues.

A twin turbo diesel engine.......oops....Ford wants you to think it is a twin turbo.....it is actually a dual turbo setup that has a small turbo for low rpm's and a larger one for higher rpms, since they couldn't get the computer programmed correctly to control the variable vane turbo that was installed on the 6.0.

A truck is a truck, is a truck.........it's all in what you want and like.

Steve
[/quote]

The _dual_ turbo setup is identical to the twin turbo setup my brother had installed on his 2006 Dodge (smaller turbo feeding a larger one). What a difference that made on his truck! Impressive boost with comparitivly no turbo lag. There are kits available to retrofit most of the older diesel pickups with twin (smaller one for spool-up, larger one for mid to upper power band) turbos available right now as well, and selling quite well judging by the posts on the diesel sites by people who have installed them on their trucks. BTW, VGT turbo problems have nothing to do with computer programing (but I won't address that here), nor did the twin. . .sorry. . .dual turbo setup come as a replacement for a problem (one of the turbos is still a variable geometry turbo in the 6.4).

Ford, GM, Dodge, International, Isuzu, Cummins, Toyota, Tonka. . .what engine manufactorer hasn't had issues?

I am impressed with the way every person I personally know of that had an "issue" with their 6.0 engine, no matter to what degree, had their problems resolved by Ford, one friend even had his truck bought back by Ford! A lot of those issues could very well have been attributed to 'aftermarket performance modifications' that were not part of the original warranty to start with!

Can I say the same for all manufacturers? Not in my experience:

1996 Cracked block on a Cummins engine, no warranty. A subsequent pattern of similer failures around the country proved that there was a engineering flaw in most of the Cummins blocks around that production time, that severely compromised the blocks integrity.

2001 Piston slap in the Chevrolet 6.0, gasser. Chevy said "it's supposed to do that". After years of fighting their own customers in a legal battle over this issue, they finally issued a recall.

2007 Just read of a lawsuit that has been going on for several years dealing with carbon build-up in a few of Toyota's engines. Toyota acknowledged the problem, even offered an extended warranty dealing with that specific issue, then denied most all the claims against that warranty, saying it was the owners lack of maintenence that caused the problem. Toyota has now agreed to take care of those problems, years later.

I am still very interested in looking at all new trucks, I haven't made up my mind yet. I will probably not order a truck until this fall. I see a consistant pattern of problems poping up in the new Dodge 6.7 Cummins that I want to watch and see how the new "Chrysler" takes care of their customers.
[/quote]

Glacier, what are those problems? Can you provide a link or some other place to read info? I haven't seen anything on the cumminsforum as of yet. I am curious since a 6.7 diesel Ram is one of the trucks we are considering in the next 18 months or so and would like to be able to track any such problems. I have heard of DPF related issues such as drivers being told that they have to drive the trucks for a certain period of time to get the egt's up for a regen process to run right but nothing related to the motor itself. I am interested though if you would let me know...pm is fine if you wish.

Thanks!

-CC


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## GlacierPeaks (Jan 22, 2007)

Glacier, what are those problems? Can you provide a link or some other place to read info? I haven't seen anything on the cumminsforum as of yet. I am curious since a 6.7 diesel Ram is one of the trucks we are considering in the next 18 months or so and would like to be able to track any such problems. I have heard of DPF related issues such as drivers being told that they have to drive the trucks for a certain period of time to get the egt's up for a regen process to run right but nothing related to the motor itself. I am interested though if you would let me know...pm is fine if you wish.

Thanks!

-CC
[/quote]

Here's a few sites for experiences by owners of the new 6.7:

www.thedieselgarage.com
www.turbodieselregister.com
www.cumminsforum.com

I did read a couple of threads about main bearing failures in the 6.7 that I had in mind when I was writing the above, but I can't rember where they are. I'll post a link if I find it.

-Chris

I think no matter what brand you buy, all the 2007 EPA compliant diesels are going to have growing pains over the next few years. Seems to me the majority of the problems I've heard about have been DPF related, Ford, Dodge or Chevy.

_"That's all I got to say about that"_. 
Not really, I'm sure I'll spout more wisdom later. 
The line forms right here in front of this soapbox. :~p

-Chris


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