# Curious On Thoughts From Experts



## m2edumacated (Feb 12, 2012)

First off, really do value opinion of everyone here. 
Used my 2011 outback 300bh all last summer. I simply use a eazlift wd system with a friction bar( getting a second shortly). 
I have a 2011 5.3l sierra with 3.42 six speed and trailer pkg. (good for 9500). I also put some airbags on the back. I was able to be in forth and fifth gear most of the time, and drop to third on steep grades. Properly balanced, with the friction, didnt seem to get pushed around too much (bags helpful with that). I recently weighed everything out and with wife and two little ones, half tank of gas, first grey water full, and second 3/4's. two batteries and 2 full propanes. The whole gcwr was at 14,000. I have a 15,000 limit. I had all the water in the greys to simulate crap loaded up. I never drive with water. Only thing to add yet was bikes and rack. 300 lbs total.

I know i'm close and still legal. I felt pretty safe driving last year. When you read where im at, what are your thoughts? Curious to know. Thanks guys!


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## therink (May 13, 2010)

What is the loaded tongue weight of the trailer loaded? 
What is the GVWR of your truck? 
My guess is that you have exceeded the GVWR (payload rating) of your truck when hitched up and truck loaded with family and gear. 
The other thing is the 3:42 axle is not a good ratio for towing heavy trailers. 
If it were me, I would tow that TT with nothing less than a 3/4 ton with at least 3:73 axle. It will make your towing experience much safer and easier on the nerves. I've been there. 
If you plan to keep the truck, make sure you at least have 10 ply load range E LT tires on the truck. 
Steve


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## m2edumacated (Feb 12, 2012)

therink said:


> What is the loaded tongue weight of the trailer loaded?
> What is the GVWR of your truck?
> My guess is that you have exceeded the GVWR (payload rating) of your truck when hitched up and truck loaded with family and gear.
> The other thing is the 3:42 axle is not a good ratio for towing heavy trailers.
> ...


Thanks Steve! According to the scale I was at my Steer axle was at 3060lbs and Drive Axle was at 3580. My payload is good for 1671 and i have a GVWR of 7300. This was with almost two full tanks of water in front of the trailer axels, family packed up, gas and hooked up. I am looking at the 3:73 axle. What "peace of mind" would that bring? and as luck would have it my brother is a gm transmission specialist







. Do thoe numbers help?


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## therink (May 13, 2010)

I just looked up the specs on your trailer. GVWR is 7500 meaning your loaded tongue weight (13% factor) is around 975 assuming your trailer is loaded to the max. Based on your 1671 payload, that leaves you about 700 lbs for passengers, firewood, cargo, hitch, etc. If you keep your trailer light you should be Ok but still cutting it close for a 1/2 ton. 
This leaves your axle rational an issue, especially if you travel in hilly terrain. You will need to closely monitor your transmission temp as she will likely run hot when climbing hills. 
Also, what load range tires are you running in the truck?


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## m2edumacated (Feb 12, 2012)

therink said:


> I just looked up the specs on your trailer. GVWR is 7500 meaning your loaded tongue weight (13% factor) is around 975 assuming your trailer is loaded to the max. Based on your 1671 payload, that leaves you about 700 lbs for passengers, firewood, cargo, hitch, etc. If you keep your trailer light you should be Ok but still cutting it close for a 1/2 ton.
> This leaves your axle rational an issue, especially if you travel in hilly terrain. You will need to closely monitor your transmission temp as she will likely run hot when climbing hills.
> Also, what load range tires are you running in the truck?


What are my load range tires....good question. No clue. Will find out! as for temp, Hottest I have seen so far is 190. It has the HD cooling pkg on it. That was climbing through the mountains at about plus 25. As for the trailer, those were the numbers i had. Don't have the option to hall with water under all normal circumstances. With the water that was in (2 greys worth)I still had around 600 pounds for the trailer to play with. I figure I'll be sitting at around 7000-7200 max on the trailer. Lucky wife and I are small people







. Have to say, the tire thing i didn't even think about! But other than 100 mile hour crosswinds one time it has pulled it great! I bought that trailer because of how light it was for the size (30 feet with double slides). That's why I was wondering what others thought. I know I'm close (still legal),but wanted to double check because of how great it seemed to be pulling. At 60-65 mph rpms usually sit about 3/4's between 2 and 3.


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## therink (May 13, 2010)

With that kind of weight, load range E (10 ply) provide a stiffer sidewall, hence provide a more stable footprint when sway becomes an issue. That is a long trailer and sway could become an issue when passing semis, dips in roads, etc. I believe most 1/2 tons ce standard with 6 or 8 ply P rated tires. They provide a softer ride when not under heavy load but tend to have side wall flex which can promote sway.


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## Dave-Gray (Jul 9, 2012)

If you don't have a Sherline Trailer Tongue Weight Scale, then I recommend you go to Fifth Wheel St. and download the appropriate worksheet and take it with you back to the scales and do some additional weighing. As mentioned above, you may be overloading the rear axle. My friend and RV consultant Bob Zagami said it well, "It is not how much you can tow, it is how much you can control and stop that is important!"

Last fall, to my amazement, I watched an old F150 flat bed tow my 19,000 pound toy hauler uphill and back it into a tight space that my RAM 3500 would not have done without major damage. There is no doubt your truck can tow the load. It's better to get the whole picture of your towing situation so that you can truly be "*m2edumacated."*


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

therink said:


> What is the loaded tongue weight of the trailer loaded?
> What is the GVWR of your truck?
> My guess is that you have exceeded the GVWR (payload rating) of your truck when hitched up and truck loaded with family and gear.
> The other thing is the 3:42 axle is not a good ratio for towing heavy trailers.
> ...


When GM introduced the new 6 speed they chose the 3:42 to maximize the HP/torque to the tranny and tire size. You cant even get the 3.73. This is the combo that comes with their HD towing package in a half ton. You gotta remember there are more gears in the transmission to control the final drive ratio then before.


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## m2edumacated (Feb 12, 2012)

Dave-Gray said:


> If you don't have a Sherline Trailer Tongue Weight Scale, then I recommend you go to Fifth Wheel St. and download the appropriate worksheet and take it with you back to the scales and do some additional weighing. As mentioned above, you may be overloading the rear axle. My friend and RV consultant Bob Zagami said it well, "It is not how much you can tow, it is how much you can control and stop that is important!"
> 
> Last fall, to my amazement, I watched an old F150 flat bed tow my 19,000 pound toy hauler uphill and back it into a tight space that my RAM 3500 would not have done without major damage. There is no doubt your truck can tow the load. It's better to get the whole picture of your towing situation so that you can truly be "*m2edumacated."*


Thanks for the link to the worksheet. I weighed at a CAT Scale. As mentioned my drive Axle (rear) was at 3580. My rating on my truck is at 3950. So i thought I had a little bit of room left over there for a couple things in the box. On an aside, does anyone know if my greys for the 300bh sit in the front of the trailer ot the back? As mentioned both were almost full which would have addded 400 pounds to the tongue if they are in front of the axle.

This is great guys! Really appreciate all this! so far I have tires to do, and use this worksheet.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Dave-Gray said:


> Last fall, to my amazement, I watched an old F150 flat bed tow my 19,000 pound toy hauler uphill and back it into a tight space that my RAM 3500 would not have done without major damage. There is no doubt your truck can tow the load. It's better to get the whole picture of your towing situation so that you can truly be "[/font]*m2edumacated."*


I am going to have to say the "Old" F150 was not stock in anyway, shape or form if it could pull better than a Ram 3500. Better to compare apples to apples and not share sea stories.


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## Dave-Gray (Jul 9, 2012)

CamperAndy said:


> Last fall, to my amazement, I watched an old F150 flat bed tow my 19,000 pound toy hauler uphill and back it into a tight space that my RAM 3500 would not have done without major damage. There is no doubt your truck can tow the load. It's better to get the whole picture of your towing situation so that you can truly be "[/font]*m2edumacated."*


I am going to have to say the "Old" F150 was not stock in anyway, shape or form if it could pull better than a Ram 3500. Better to compare apples to apples and not share sea stories.
[/quote]

Nope, Andy. It was an old stock flatbed with a fifth wheel hitch. I didn't say it could pull better than a Ram 3500. The reason the F150 was used was because of the very tight backing space on slopes. I would have left the park if it hadn't been for the park's truck.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Dave-Gray said:


> Last fall, to my amazement, I watched an old F150 flat bed tow my 19,000 pound toy hauler uphill and back it into a tight space that my RAM 3500 would not have done without major damage. There is no doubt your truck can tow the load. It's better to get the whole picture of your towing situation so that you can truly be "[/font]*m2edumacated."*


I am going to have to say the "Old" F150 was not stock in anyway, shape or form if it could pull better than a Ram 3500. Better to compare apples to apples and not share sea stories.
[/quote]

Nope, Andy. It was an old stock flatbed with a fifth wheel hitch. I didn't say it could pull better than a Ram 3500. The reason the F150 was used was because of the very tight backing space on slopes. I would have left the park if it hadn't been for the park's truck.
[/quote]

Well if that is the comparison I have seen plenty of forklifts used to move trailers. Which I am sure you have also if you have ever seen an RV lot pack in trailers but that is not the tow vehicle combination that we normally discuss here. You would not expect the F150 to tow 19K down the highway and I would not expect a Forklift to do it either. Glad you could add the whole picture once prompted.

I also would have left a campground that was so poorly laid out that they needed to park the trailer for you.


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## W5CI (Apr 21, 2009)

9500 rating for a 1/2 ton is amazing, I am buying a new GMC 3/4 ton 6.0 with 3.73 and it is only rated at 9800


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## m2edumacated (Feb 12, 2012)

danny285 said:


> 9500 rating for a 1/2 ton is amazing, I am buying a new GMC 3/4 ton 6.0 with 3.73 and it is only rated at 9800


I thought so too! Has the hd trailer package, crewcab, and as mentioned in earlier posts the 6-speed tranny makes a big difference. When you look closer at the gear ratio. First is just over 4 and second is under. Lots of low end torque to get going. Where the problem lies is in that whole 1/2ton part. I think im legal in all respects, but ill never be carrying water on any major trip if im loaded up. Handling on your 3/4 will be better as well. Probably no matter what i do for hitches anf fricton. But, im not white knuckling it unless their is some extreme conditions (the air bags helped with that)


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

m2edumacated said:


> 9500 rating for a 1/2 ton is amazing, I am buying a new GMC 3/4 ton 6.0 with 3.73 and it is only rated at 9800


I thought so too! Has the hd trailer package, crewcab, and as mentioned in earlier posts the 6-speed tranny makes a big difference. When you look closer at the gear ratio. First is just over 4 and second is under. Lots of low end torque to get going. Where the problem lies is in that whole 1/2ton part. I think im legal in all respects, but ill never be carrying water on any major trip if im loaded up. Handling on your 3/4 will be better as well. Probably no matter what i do for hitches anf fricton. But, im not white knuckling it unless their is some extreme conditions (the air bags helped with that)
[/quote]

Its not the tranny that makes the difference. Its the HD cooler package.

On my 2009:

1500 4x4 Crew Cab 5'8" bed, 5.3L, 3.42 gears, with HD cooling, 9,500 lbs. Same setup without HD cooling, 6,000 lbs.


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## m2edumacated (Feb 12, 2012)

thefulminator said:


> 9500 rating for a 1/2 ton is amazing, I am buying a new GMC 3/4 ton 6.0 with 3.73 and it is only rated at 9800


I thought so too! Has the hd trailer package, crewcab, and as mentioned in earlier posts the 6-speed tranny makes a big difference. When you look closer at the gear ratio. First is just over 4 and second is under. Lots of low end torque to get going. Where the problem lies is in that whole 1/2ton part. I think im legal in all respects, but ill never be carrying water on any major trip if im loaded up. Handling on your 3/4 will be better as well. Probably no matter what i do for hitches anf fricton. But, im not white knuckling it unless their is some extreme conditions (the air bags helped with that)
[/quote]

Its not the tranny that makes the difference. Its the HD cooler package.

On my 2009:

1500 4x4 Crew Cab 5'8" bed, 5.3L, 3.42 gears, with HD cooling, 9,500 lbs. Same setup without HD cooling, 6,000 lbs.
[/quote]

Yea, but i was looking at his 95. HUGE difference with the switch over to the 6 speed. Much smoother and not so much lumbering


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## 26rester (Dec 11, 2012)

Welll I would say that this is spot on for the 1/2 ton GMC. I have an 03 Suburban and a good friend has a 3/4 ton suburban with the 6.0 3:73 gears. I have a higher tow rating on my 1/2 with the 5.3 and 4:10 gears. I have the four speed trans with tow haul mode which I do not use. I run the burban at 28-3300 RPM at 60-65 MPH and pull a 26 rs . This burban pulls like a mule yes I lose a little when going up hills. I get 13MPG with this combo and no white knuckle driving here. I am not sure of your new 6 speed trans, but the 5.3 is a great engine and if you put a 3 inch exhuast K & N air filter and then flash the PCM with an upgraded program from Bully Dog or others. The little engine that could is making the same if not more power and torque then a 6.0 in stock form.


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## m2edumacated (Feb 12, 2012)

26rester said:


> Welll I would say that this is spot on for the 1/2 ton GMC. I have an 03 Suburban and a good friend has a 3/4 ton suburban with the 6.0 3:73 gears. I have a higher tow rating on my 1/2 with the 5.3 and 4:10 gears. I have the four speed trans with tow haul mode which I do not use. I run the burban at 28-3300 RPM at 60-65 MPH and pull a 26 rs . This burban pulls like a mule yes I lose a little when going up hills. I get 13MPG with this combo and no white knuckle driving here. I am not sure of your new 6 speed trans, but the 5.3 is a great engine and if you put a 3 inch exhuast K & N air filter and then flash the PCM with an upgraded program from Bully Dog or others. The little engine that could is making the same if not more power and torque then a 6.0 in stock form.


Now you've done it!!!!! Fathers day is coming up. Somehow my wife needs to find your post!


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