# How Long Does A Battery Last?



## Mark W

Hello to All! My last post on this forum was many months ago when my wife and I were debating about purchasing a 250RS--which we have (yea!). The owner's manual that came with the trailer doesn't really describe much about the battery system, per se.

My question to all is: if I'm going to camp for four days / nights with no electrical connection from the campground, how much time can I reasonably expect my battery to last--figuring lights at night, maybe the radio / CD player, appliances in the morning, etc.? I do have a generator, which I cannot run past 12 midnight until 7 am each day, so I would be relying on the battery throughout the night--if we're up that late! Should I bring the generator knowing it is that much more weight to tote?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I truly am a newbie travel trailer owner. I only used a pop-up trailer for the past five years and all this is still very new to me.

Thank you all in advance for any help and advice you can provide!

--Mark in Canton, MI


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## CamperAndy

Depends on the battery but you should always bring the generator to charge the batteries during the day. Even a basic group 24 battery will last a couple of nights of basic use.


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## Mark W

Thanks, CamperAndy! I figure I will bring the generator for peace of mind; I guess one good way to test it out would be to 'camp' in my driveway at home--where it doesn't matter if the battery runs out--and see how many things use up the battery in what amount of time. I know that its not good to keep draining a battery and recharging it, but it would be nice to have a good baseline to work from in all future camping outings.

Much appreciated for the reply!


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## raynardo

Be judicious with you use of the OB's lights, as they suck a lot of power. Running your furnace at night will draw a large chunk of power, too, it's not the heat but the blower that is a battery killer.

Also be careful not to discharge your battery much lower than 40% because if you do, you'll probably ruin it.

If you have a chance to use your generator to recharge your battery on a daily basis, you should be in good shape.


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## duggy

I agree with the above replies. We've camped on battery in our 250RS a couple times, and with care not to leave unnecessary lights on, we've gone a couple days with no problem. Four days would be a stretch, but with a generator, you can easily top up the battery in the day, and make it through the night.


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## Mark W

Thank you both Raynardo and Duggy! I do appreciate the great advice! I've learned oodles about my OB, but the more I know, the more I know I don't know! Still, that's why its a labor of love!

Generator use, it is then!

Thanks again!

--Mark


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## KTMRacer

we converted our lights to led's. I have two 6V golf cart batteries. We can go 2-3 days easily if we use the furnace. heat at 50F at night to minimize furnace at night. w/o the furnace in the summer 3-4 days is pretty easy, that includes using the two vent fans as needed. We occasionally use the TV running off an inverter along with a hairdryer in the AM for a few minutes. Remember, the fridge will use some electricity even on propane, along with the radio even if it is off.

And as mentioned, the lights can be a huge power drain. When we got our 295RE, I turned on all the inside lights and the current drain was 40Amps!!!. Don't expect batteries to last very long if you are careless. With the LED conversion, if we turn on all the lights at night we want for nice bright interior lighting we are drawing less than 2Amps. Makes lights almost a non issue with reasonable care. 
furnace will draw between 4 and 12A depending on the particular furnace. Exhaust fans draw between 1 and 3amps depending on fan speed.

Take 1/2 your battery AH capacity look at amp draw and time to give an idea of battery life. For regular lights figure 1A per bulb (that's 2A per dual bulb fixture). so for example turning on 6 regular dual bulb lights for 3 hours is 6x2x2= 24AH. If that was LED's it would be about 10% of the draw with regular bulbs.

Now the good news/bad news about generator to recharge. you should be able to give the batteries a good charge in a few hours every day, maybe even an hour. HOWEVER, the WFCO charger used by keystone and many other mfg is NOT known for going into the boost mode needed to charge the batteries in a few hours very readily. Some (many/most??) users, me included NEVER could get the WFCO to go into boost mode. Part was due to the WFCO design, part from the installation. IF your converter is located very close to the battery you may be lucky. Mine wasn't, there is almost a 15' run between the converter and battery. If not, instead of 55A to charge the batteries you may be limited to 10-15A. Not good news. If you plan on doing lots of dry camping, I'd verify that the WFCO converter goes into boost mode, if not, swap it out for a PD drop in replacement.


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## Insomniak

I'll second the vote for LED lights! I've swapped out most of the bulbs in our trailer and the energy savings is unbelievable. I still need to post some photos of the bulbs I used, but I've been too lazy lately. Not a cheap upgrade (about $400) but if you dry camp, it's the way to go. Just as around your house, lighting is probably the single biggest energy hog in the trailer. I can have EIGHT dual-bulb LED fixtures turned on and use about the same number of amps as ONE incandescent double-bulb fixture!


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## TwoElkhounds

Insomniak said:


> I'll second the vote for LED lights! I've swapped out most of the bulbs in our trailer and the energy savings is unbelievable. I still need to post some photos of the bulbs I used, but I've been too lazy lately. Not a cheap upgrade (about $400) but if you dry camp, it's the way to go. Just as around your house, lighting is probably the single biggest energy hog in the trailer. I can have EIGHT dual-bulb LED fixtures turned on and use about the same number of amps as ONE incandescent double-bulb fixture!


Another vote for LED lights. I have not done all my lights yet, but I have added one in each area of the trailer. I use these when I dry camp and keep the others off.

DAN


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## raynardo

I have switched to LED lights and they are remarkable, giving off as much if not more light at a pleasing color temperature - just be careful what Kelvin temperature you get for your lights.

I found a supplier of the lights for 98¢ per bulb replacement (there are two bulbs in each lighting fixture) on eBay. Even though he charged $1.25 per bulb shipping, I still was able to replace all the interior lights in the OB for less that $50! Woo hoo







!!! Here's what I ordered: Warm White Car Interior 36 SMD LED Lamp Light Panel - put that in an eBay search to find the same.

I also purchased an 16' section of LED lights (Waterproof LED Strips 16.4', 4.8w/m, Warm Gold 3533) that has an adhesive backing that I will stick to the bottom of the metal awning tube to have permanently mounted awning lights. They run on 12v DC so I've got them running using a 0.5 amp 12v transformer that I had from some electronic piece that died, and I can also run them from a 12v battery charger that I always take with me. I haven't installed them yet, but I have hooked them up to test them and they work great - I can't wait to get them up.

I also just saw some 13 LED light fixtures at Costco that are sold as under cabinet lights. What's neat about them is they are powered by 4 AA batteries and are activated by motion. For $20 I should have purchased the package of 2, but now with my "regular" LED's I really don't need them. Just a thought for other OB'ers out there.


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## Mark W

KTMRacer said:


> we converted our lights to led's. I have two 6V golf cart batteries. We can go 2-3 days easily if we use the furnace. heat at 50F at night to minimize furnace at night. w/o the furnace in the summer 3-4 days is pretty easy, that includes using the two vent fans as needed. We occasionally use the TV running off an inverter along with a hairdryer in the AM for a few minutes. Remember, the fridge will use some electricity even on propane, along with the radio even if it is off.
> 
> And as mentioned, the lights can be a huge power drain. When we got our 295RE, I turned on all the inside lights and the current drain was 40Amps!!!. Don't expect batteries to last very long if you are careless. With the LED conversion, if we turn on all the lights at night we want for nice bright interior lighting we are drawing less than 2Amps. Makes lights almost a non issue with reasonable care.
> furnace will draw between 4 and 12A depending on the particular furnace. Exhaust fans draw between 1 and 3amps depending on fan speed.
> 
> Take 1/2 your battery AH capacity look at amp draw and time to give an idea of battery life. For regular lights figure 1A per bulb (that's 2A per dual bulb fixture). so for example turning on 6 regular dual bulb lights for 3 hours is 6x2x2= 24AH. If that was LED's it would be about 10% of the draw with regular bulbs.
> 
> Now the good news/bad news about generator to recharge. you should be able to give the batteries a good charge in a few hours every day, maybe even an hour. HOWEVER, the WFCO charger used by keystone and many other mfg is NOT known for going into the boost mode needed to charge the batteries in a few hours very readily. Some (many/most??) users, me included NEVER could get the WFCO to go into boost mode. Part was due to the WFCO design, part from the installation. IF your converter is located very close to the battery you may be lucky. Mine wasn't, there is almost a 15' run between the converter and battery. If not, instead of 55A to charge the batteries you may be limited to 10-15A. Not good news. If you plan on doing lots of dry camping, I'd verify that the WFCO converter goes into boost mode, if not, swap it out for a PD drop in replacement.


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## Mark W

Thanks everyone for the great advice and information. Again, being brand new to the TT world, can I get an explanation--in lay terms, please!--of the concepts behind what the WFCO charger is, how it works and where is it located on say, my Outback 250RS?

Also, along related lines, I've heard about these "inverters"...again, what are these? How do they work? Where does one locate these?

Sorry for the lack of knowledge--I was a mere pop-up trailer guy before this which had VERY limited electrical capabilities.

I appreciate everyone's help and input on this issue!

Also, while I'm asking....I cannot seem to find a list of what light bulb models / types / part numbers, etc. are currently on my Outback 250RS. A call into Keystone resulted in their denial of having such a list (although upon further questioning, they admitted that their dealerships have such a list but they wouldn't give it to me).

Any way to obtain a parts manual with a list of these light bulbs that I can use to shop for LED lights? Would anyone know of how I can get a full parts catalog for all components on my Outback 250RS?

Sorry for all the questions and ignorance on this topic, but my inquiring mind wants to know!

Thanks again, All!


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## Insomniak

Mark W said:


> Thanks everyone for the great advice and information. Again, being brand new to the TT world, can I get an explanation--in lay terms, please!--of the concepts behind what the WFCO charger is, how it works and where is it located on say, my Outback 250RS?
> 
> Also, along related lines, I've heard about these "inverters"...again, what are these? How do they work? Where does one locate these?
> 
> Sorry for the lack of knowledge--I was a mere pop-up trailer guy before this which had VERY limited electrical capabilities.
> 
> I appreciate everyone's help and input on this issue!
> 
> Also, while I'm asking....I cannot seem to find a list of what light bulb models / types / part numbers, etc. are currently on my Outback 250RS. A call into Keystone resulted in their denial of having such a list (although upon further questioning, they admitted that their dealerships have such a list but they wouldn't give it to me).
> 
> Any way to obtain a parts manual with a list of these light bulbs that I can use to shop for LED lights? Would anyone know of how I can get a full parts catalog for all components on my Outback 250RS?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions and ignorance on this topic, but my inquiring mind wants to know!
> 
> Thanks again, All!


The WFCO converter / charger is simply the electronic device that converts 110 volt AC household current to 12 volt DC current. It's located in the electrical panel where you will find the electrical breakers and fuses. It charges your batteries and provides 12 volt power for your low-voltage devices like lights, water pump, etc. Most of the light bulbs in the Outback are 18 watt, 12 volt "921" wedge base bulbs, although you may have a few 1156 or 1157 bulbs as well. You can actually find these bulbs in the garden center of Home Depot or Lowe's. If you want to go LED, check out http://www.superbrightleds.com

An "inverter" is a completely different animal, in that it takes 12 volt DC battery power and changes it to 110 volt AC current to power things like coffee makers, microwave, etc. You won't have one of those in the Outback, but it's something you can add later if you decide to to do a lot of dry camping.


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## Mark W

Excellent explanation, Insomniak--thank you kindly! I will check into the website you listed for some good LEDs to swap out in my trailer. Much appreciated!


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## Stan

raynardo said:


> I have switched to LED lights and they are remarkable, giving off as much if not more light at a pleasing color temperature - just be careful what Kelvin temperature you get for your lights.
> 
> I found a supplier of the lights for 98¢ per bulb replacement (there are two bulbs in each lighting fixture) on eBay. Even though he charged $1.25 per bulb shipping, I still was able to replace all the interior lights in the OB for less that $50! Woo hoo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !!! Here's what I ordered: Warm White Car Interior 36 SMD LED Lamp Light Panel - put that in an eBay search to find the same.
> 
> I also purchased an 16' section of LED lights (Waterproof LED Strips 16.4', 4.8w/m, Warm Gold 3533) that has an adhesive backing that I will stick to the bottom of the metal awning tube to have permanently mounted awning lights. They run on 12v DC so I've got them running using a 0.5 amp 12v transformer that I had from some electronic piece that died, and I can also run them from a 12v battery charger that I always take with me. I haven't installed them yet, but I have hooked them up to test them and they work great - I can't wait to get them up.
> 
> I also just saw some 13 LED light fixtures at Costco that are sold as under cabinet lights. What's neat about them is they are powered by 4 AA batteries and are activated by motion. For $20 I should have purchased the package of 2, but now with my "regular" LED's I really don't need them. Just a thought for other OB'ers out there.


Dumb question..so you just ordred these Warm White Car Interior panels, and swapped out the lights in your OB? easy job??
Thanks


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## raynardo

Stan said:


> Dumb question..so you just ordred these Warm White Car Interior panels, and swapped out the lights in your OB? easy job??


Let's put it this way....it's so easy that even I can do it.

Here's the steps:

turn the light switch off to the light you plan to work on
slide the opaque cover off of the existing light fixture. It slides less that ½" before it literally drops off in your hand
place cover where you won't accidentally sit on it
pull out the existing bulb - straight out
grab the new LED bulb assembly (it doesn't look like a bulb at all but rather a circuit board)
plug the wired tail into the receptacle from where you just unplugged the bulb
turn on the light switch to make sure everything works right
peel the paper off the double-stick tape adhering to the LED bulb assembly
stick the LED bulb assembly unto the downward facing interior of the existing light fixture
slide the cover back onto the light fixture
admire your handiwork
have a beer
repeat until you have all your LED lights installed
Not only will you be so stoked, you'll also have a great buzz!









This is the kind of mod I love doing on my OB.


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## Piecemaker

On the topic of recharging the batteries during the day with a generator, should we connect a charger to the 
tt battery or simply plug the tt into the generator. Is one way better than the other?

Thanks for replies


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## raynardo

Piecemaker said:


> On the topic of recharging the batteries during the day with a generator, should we connect a charger to the
> tt battery or simply plug the tt into the generator. Is one way better than the other?


If you're generator has the capability of directly charging 12v batteries through a dedicated port, then that's the way to go, you avoid using the OB's stock lame converter, which wasn't specifically designed to charge batteries (although it will, albeit slowly).


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## CamperAndy

raynardo said:


> On the topic of recharging the batteries during the day with a generator, should we connect a charger to the
> tt battery or simply plug the tt into the generator. Is one way better than the other?


If you're generator has the capability of directly charging 12v batteries through a dedicated port, then that's the way to go, you avoid using the OB's stock lame converter, which wasn't specifically designed to charge batteries (although it will, albeit slowly).
[/quote]

I am going to have to disagree with this. The typical 12 vdc from a generator is only in the 10 to 15 amp range (at best) and will charge at a much slower rate then the the WFCO converter on the Outback which will go up to 45 to 55 amp (ideal conditions) and at 20 to 30 amp under typical conditions which is better then direct from most generators.


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## Piecemaker

CamperAndy said:


> On the topic of recharging the batteries during the day with a generator, should we connect a charger to the
> tt battery or simply plug the tt into the generator. Is one way better than the other?


If you're generator has the capability of directly charging 12v batteries through a dedicated port, then that's the way to go, you avoid using the OB's stock lame converter, which wasn't specifically designed to charge batteries (although it will, albeit slowly).
[/quote]

I am going to have to disagree with this. The typical 12 vdc from a generator is only in the 10 to 15 amp range (at best) and will charge at a much slower rate then the the WFCO converter on the Outback which will go up to 45 to 55 amp (ideal conditions) and at 20 to 30 amp under typical conditions which is better then direct from most generators.
[/quote]

What I will be wanting to do is charge the ob battery with my Honda 2000 and a Minnkota charger that I use to 
charge the battery for the Minnkota motor.

I can either go directly to the ob battery with the charger,

or

I have a adapter that will downsize the tt 30amp plug to a standard 110 
household 3 prong plug which I would plug into the generator to charge.

There will nothing on such as lights etc while charging either way.

Which way is suggested the better way?

Thanks


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## raynardo

CamperAndy said:


> I am going to have to disagree with this. The typical 12 vdc from a generator is only in the 10 to 15 amp range (at best) and will charge at a much slower rate then the the WFCO converter on the Outback which will go up to 45 to 55 amp (ideal conditions) and at 20 to 30 amp under typical conditions which is better then direct from most generators.


I'm wondering where you're getting those 45 to 55amps on a trailer wired to accept only 30 amps.

And I also seriously doubt one can put anything more than 10 amps on a battery to recharge it. Any more and the risk of explosion is a certainty. I don't want to be near anyone/anything that it having that much amperage applied to a 12v battery.

The battery chargers I've purchased for my car batteries (I have two) do not exceed 10 amps, and they do an excellent job recharging my batteries. In fact, I'll use one each of chargers in their 6 volt settings to recharge my 6 volt Trojan golf cart batteries on my OB if I want to get a perfect charge.

On a Honda 2000i generator the 12v output is 8 amps - perfect for safely charging car, marine, and deep cycle batteries. That's why this feature is on those generators - it was made for it!


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## KTMRacer

raynardo said:


> I am going to have to disagree with this. The typical 12 vdc from a generator is only in the 10 to 15 amp range (at best) and will charge at a much slower rate then the the WFCO converter on the Outback which will go up to 45 to 55 amp (ideal conditions) and at 20 to 30 amp under typical conditions which is better then direct from most generators.


I'm wondering where you're getting those 45 to 55amps on a trailer wired to accept only 30 amps.

And I also seriously doubt one can put anything more than 10 amps on a battery to recharge it. Any more and the risk of explosion is a certainty. I don't want to be near anyone/anything that it having that much amperage applies to a 12v battery.

The battery chargers I've purchased for my car batteries (I have two) do not exceed 10 amps, and they do an excellent job recharging my batteries. In fact, I'll use one each of chargers in their 6 volt settings to recharge my 6 volt Trojan golf cart batteries on my OB if I want to get a perfect charge.

On a Honda 2000i generator the 12v output is 8 amps - perfect for safely charging car, marine, and deep cycle batteries. That's why this feature is on those generators - it was made for it!
[/quote]

ok, to get 45A out of the charger, you need about 8A from the 120V line, well in line with the 30A service
the honda charger will put out only 8A. On a 50% discharged pair of batteries rated at 200+AH, will take over 12hours to recharge. 
even though the WFCO charger is not known for going into boost mode and putting out 55A, it will easily put out 20A or so so it will charge 3x the rate of the honda charger.

don't waste time using the honda charger, use the charger in your trailer. And if you dry camp a lot, replace the WFCO converter with a PD drop in replacement which WILL easily put out 45A to your battery, quickly charging it.

and to charging current limits, I regularly stuff 90A into my pair of trojan golf carts for close to 45 minutes before it starts to taper off. (A PD45A and PD65A charger wired in parallel to the batteries) In less than two hours I've stuffed 125AH+ into the batteries. And they are going strong after 8 years of use and probably 200+ charge discharge cycles.


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## KTMRacer

raynardo said:


> I am going to have to disagree with this. The typical 12 vdc from a generator is only in the 10 to 15 amp range (at best) and will charge at a much slower rate then the the WFCO converter on the Outback which will go up to 45 to 55 amp (ideal conditions) and at 20 to 30 amp under typical conditions which is better then direct from most generators.


I'm wondering where you're getting those 45 to 55amps on a trailer wired to accept only 30 amps.

And I also seriously doubt one can put anything more than 10 amps on a battery to recharge it. Any more and the risk of explosion is a certainty. I don't want to be near anyone/anything that it having that much amperage applies to a 12v battery.

The battery chargers I've purchased for my car batteries (I have two) do not exceed 10 amps, and they do an excellent job recharging my batteries. In fact, I'll use one each of chargers in their 6 volt settings to recharge my 6 volt Trojan golf cart batteries on my OB if I want to get a perfect charge.

On a Honda 2000i generator the 12v output is 8 amps - perfect for safely charging car, marine, and deep cycle batteries. That's why this feature is on those generators - it was made for it!
[/quote]

ok, to get 45A out of the charger, you need about 8A from the 120V line, well in line with the 30A service
the honda charger will put out only 8A. On a 50% discharged pair of batteries rated at 200+AH, will take over 12hours to recharge. 
even though the WFCO charger is not known for going into boost mode and putting out 55A, it will easily put out 20A or so so it will charge 3x the rate of the honda charger.

don't waste time using the honda charger, use the charger in your trailer. And if you dry camp a lot, replace the WFCO converter with a PD drop in replacement which WILL easily put out 45A to your battery, quickly charging it.

and to charging current limits, I regularly stuff 90A into my pair of trojan golf carts for close to 45 minutes before it starts to taper off. (A PD45A and PD65A charger wired in parallel to the batteries) In less than two hours I've stuffed 125AH+ into the batteries. And they are going strong after 8 years of use and probably 200+ charge discharge cycles. No explosions yet, and talking to a trojan rep, he stated that 90A is high but not overly high for the batteries. 50A is their recomended charging current.


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## Oregon_Camper

KTMRacer said:


> don't waste time using the honda charger, use the charger in your trailer. And if you dry camp a lot, replace the WFCO converter with a PD drop in replacement which WILL easily put out 45A to your battery, quickly charging it.


What is a "PD" I'm interested in this mod, as we dry camp ALL the time. Cost? Simple installation?


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## raynardo

I, too, had to look it up, and if it's better that what's OEM in OB, I'd be interested in swapping mine out.

Looking at the unit online, it doesn't appear to be similar as to what we have in there now.

Here's the best price on an eBay link from a seller that's not only got a high rating, but has over 1800 sales to his credit.


Inteli-Power 60 amp Converter w/Wizard Charge Progressive Dynamics PD9260​


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## Insomniak

raynardo said:


> I am going to have to disagree with this. The typical 12 vdc from a generator is only in the 10 to 15 amp range (at best) and will charge at a much slower rate then the the WFCO converter on the Outback which will go up to 45 to 55 amp (ideal conditions) and at 20 to 30 amp under typical conditions which is better then direct from most generators.


I'm wondering where you're getting those 45 to 55amps on a trailer wired to accept only 30 amps.

And I also seriously doubt one can put anything more than 10 amps on a battery to recharge it. Any more and the risk of explosion is a certainty. I don't want to be near anyone/anything that it having that much amperage applied to a 12v battery.

The battery chargers I've purchased for my car batteries (I have two) do not exceed 10 amps, and they do an excellent job recharging my batteries. In fact, I'll use one each of chargers in their 6 volt settings to recharge my 6 volt Trojan golf cart batteries on my OB if I want to get a perfect charge.

On a Honda 2000i generator the 12v output is 8 amps - perfect for safely charging car, marine, and deep cycle batteries. That's why this feature is on those generators - it was made for it!
[/quote]
That 30 amp rating for the trailer is AC voltage, not DC which is how the converter is rated. Take the Progressive Dynamics PD9260 for example. It puts out 1000 watts at 13.6 volts which gives 60 amps.


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## Insomniak

Oregon_Camper said:


> don't waste time using the honda charger, use the charger in your trailer. And if you dry camp a lot, replace the WFCO converter with a PD drop in replacement which WILL easily put out 45A to your battery, quickly charging it.


What is a "PD" I'm interested in this mod, as we dry camp ALL the time. Cost? Simple installation?
[/quote]
Look at my recent photos in the thread and conversation with Twoelkhounds.


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## KTMRacer

Oregon_Camper said:


> don't waste time using the honda charger, use the charger in your trailer. And if you dry camp a lot, replace the WFCO converter with a PD drop in replacement which WILL easily put out 45A to your battery, quickly charging it.


What is a "PD" I'm interested in this mod, as we dry camp ALL the time. Cost? Simple installation?
[/quote]

PD progressive dynamics. here is the web link http://www.progressivedyn.com/pd4600_converter_replacement.html very easy install. Figure about 1 hour to install. While the WFCO converter is very good for those who don't dry camp, it seldom goes into boost mode, a big downside for those of us who dry camp. Installations is very easy Another hint, the drop in unit has a small switch on the fuse panel to manually kick it into boost mode. like the other PD units it normally goes into boost mode about when it should, but for those of us who want to force it into boost mode to get the batteries charged quickly, it is a little akward. NEVER FEAR PD to the rescue!! here is a link on how to use a PD "wizard" pendant with the drop in replacement. Now you can mount the remote unit wherever is convienent.!! And if you go this route, you can use the existing WFCO fuse panel, which saves installation time!! the pendant is about $10.

http://www.progressivedyn.com/PD92201_for_PD4600.pdf

My "trick" was to install the PD drop in replacement as my "primary" converter. then I added an additional breaker that feeds a PD 65A deck mount unit in the pass through. It is wired with #4 welding cable through a 75A breaker directly to the batteries. At site with electric, I rely on the replacment unit and turn off the deck mount breaker. When we dry camp, I turn off the WFCO drop in (have wired it to it's own circuit as well, rather than piggy backed to the inside outlets), turn on the 65A unit. Quicker recharge time. If I have both honda 2000's on, I turn on BOTH converters, the deck mount and drop in replacement and get 90-100A of initial charge current. That way with a pair of golf carts discharged to 50% I can get them to 80% SOC in an hour or so. But the little honda won't run both converters, the VA draw is way to high. to bad PD doesn't power factor correct the converters. The current draw is about 25-35% higher than calculated from the watts draw since the input looks capacitive like most switching power supplies. the 65A unit is about the biggest you can reliably run from a honda/yamaha 2000 generator.


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## Mark W

Ok, now I'm really confused by all the posts on this topic. Basic questions:

1) I'll be camping soon at a location without electricity. I will be able to use my battery for 2-3 days without charging, but to charge it up, do I simply need to plug the shore-cord of the TT into my generator and have it run for a few hours each day to maintain full power to the battery?

2) Or do I start the generator, plug in a battery charger and recharge the battery this way?

3) I have NO electrical experience--what is all the conversation about replacing the WFCO with a PD??? This sounds way too overwhelming to understand...


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## CamperAndy

Mark W said:


> Ok, now I'm really confused by all the posts on this topic. Basic questions:
> 
> 1) I'll be camping soon at a location without electricity. I will be able to use my battery for 2-3 days without charging, but to charge it up, do I simply need to plug the shore-cord of the TT into my generator and have it run for a few hours each day to maintain full power to the battery?
> 
> 2) Or do I start the generator, plug in a battery charger and recharge the battery this way?
> 
> 3) I have NO electrical experience--what is all the conversation about replacing the WFCO with a PD??? This sounds way too overwhelming to understand...


1 - Yes

2 - No

3 - Lots of threads on this, it is really a basic modification.


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## CamperAndy

KTMRacer said:


> I am going to have to disagree with this. The typical 12 vdc from a generator is only in the 10 to 15 amp range (at best) and will charge at a much slower rate then the the WFCO converter on the Outback which will go up to 45 to 55 amp (ideal conditions) and at 20 to 30 amp under typical conditions which is better then direct from most generators.


I'm wondering where you're getting those 45 to 55amps on a trailer wired to accept only 30 amps.

And I also seriously doubt one can put anything more than 10 amps on a battery to recharge it. Any more and the risk of explosion is a certainty. I don't want to be near anyone/anything that it having that much amperage applies to a 12v battery.

The battery chargers I've purchased for my car batteries (I have two) do not exceed 10 amps, and they do an excellent job recharging my batteries. In fact, I'll use one each of chargers in their 6 volt settings to recharge my 6 volt Trojan golf cart batteries on my OB if I want to get a perfect charge.

On a Honda 2000i generator the 12v output is 8 amps - perfect for safely charging car, marine, and deep cycle batteries. That's why this feature is on those generators - it was made for it!
[/quote]

ok, to get 45A out of the charger, you need about 8A from the 120V line, well in line with the 30A service
the honda charger will put out only 8A. On a 50% discharged pair of batteries rated at 200+AH, will take over 12hours to recharge. 
even though the WFCO charger is not known for going into boost mode and putting out 55A, it will easily put out 20A or so so it will charge 3x the rate of the honda charger.

don't waste time using the honda charger, use the charger in your trailer. And if you dry camp a lot, replace the WFCO converter with a PD drop in replacement which WILL easily put out 45A to your battery, quickly charging it.

and to charging current limits, I regularly stuff 90A into my pair of trojan golf carts for close to 45 minutes before it starts to taper off. (A PD45A and PD65A charger wired in parallel to the batteries) In less than two hours I've stuffed 125AH+ into the batteries. And they are going strong after 8 years of use and probably 200+ charge discharge cycles. No explosions yet, and talking to a trojan rep, he stated that 90A is high but not overly high for the batteries. 50A is their recomended charging current.
[/quote]

I am on the beach so slow to get back to Outbackers but you answered perfectly for me. Thanks.


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## Mark W

CamperAndy said:


> Ok, now I'm really confused by all the posts on this topic. Basic questions:
> 
> 1) I'll be camping soon at a location without electricity. I will be able to use my battery for 2-3 days without charging, but to charge it up, do I simply need to plug the shore-cord of the TT into my generator and have it run for a few hours each day to maintain full power to the battery?
> 
> 2) Or do I start the generator, plug in a battery charger and recharge the battery this way?
> 
> 3) I have NO electrical experience--what is all the conversation about replacing the WFCO with a PD??? This sounds way too overwhelming to understand...


1 - Yes

2 - No

3 - Lots of threads on this, it is really a basic modification.
[/quote]

Thanks, CamperAndy...I guess I'm just going to have to dive in and learn as I go...


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## wolverine

I have not replaced my charger/converter in my camper yet. I charge my batteries using my marine/deep cycle battery charger when I get home from camping. I disconnect my battery when I am hooked to AC to keep the batteries from overcharging. I usually charge my 6 volt batteries together at 10 amps initially and then I maintain them at 2 amps. The batteries will get a better charge at a lower amperage, but it takes much longer. My Sams' Club 6 volt batteries have been holding up well using this method. My batteries will last about 4 days in the summer without running the furnace.


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## KTMRacer

Mark W said:


> Ok, now I'm really confused by all the posts on this topic. Basic questions:
> 
> 1) I'll be camping soon at a location without electricity. I will be able to use my battery for 2-3 days without charging, but to charge it up, do I simply need to plug the shore-cord of the TT into my generator and have it run for a few hours each day to maintain full power to the battery?
> 
> 2) Or do I start the generator, plug in a battery charger and recharge the battery this way?
> 
> 3) I have NO electrical experience--what is all the conversation about replacing the WFCO with a PD??? This sounds way too overwhelming to understand...


1 - Yes

2 - No

3 - Lots of threads on this, it is really a basic modification.
[/quote]

Thanks, CamperAndy...I guess I'm just going to have to dive in and learn as I go...
[/quote]

the answer to (1) is Yes, that is the thing you should do, but for 2 hours, Maybe. If your WFCO converter is wired with a heavy short run to the batteries and you have at least two 12V or a pair of 6V batteries, you have a chance the WFCO will go into boost mode and you can get a decent recharge in a few hours. But, unfortunetly, the WFCO is not know for reliably going into boost mode, and when it doesn't, you'll get 10-20A going to the batteries, not 50A and it may take 6-8 hours to recharge, 2 hours may not get you much of a charge.


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## KTMRacer

wolverine said:


> I have not replaced my charger/converter in my camper yet. I charge my batteries using my marine/deep cycle battery charger when I get home from camping. I disconnect my battery when I am hooked to AC to keep the batteries from overcharging. I usually charge my 6 volt batteries together at 10 amps initially and then I maintain them at 2 amps. The batteries will get a better charge at a lower amperage, but it takes much longer. My Sams' Club 6 volt batteries have been holding up well using this method. My batteries will last about 4 days in the summer without running the furnace.


When you can wait till home to recharge, that's a great way to go, lower current is better for the batteries. But don't be afraid to really "hit em hard" to recharge when you need a quick recharge. My trojan GC regularly get hit with 65-90A when we are out for a long time and are still going strong after 8 years and over 200 charge/discharge cycles. Takes a few cycles out of the life, but the GC are designed for hundreds of cycles. In fact, Trojan says their GC take over 100 charge/discharge cycles to 50% before they reach maximum AH capacity. That's probably more than most campers ever subject the batteries to in their life.


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