# Adjust Your Brakes!



## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Ok, some of you know I posted about my brake noise. I decided to try the new Prodigy controller and adjusting the brakes before going in for service.

I was surprised to read in the manual that we're supposed to adjust the brakes at *200* miles and every 3000 miles thereafter.

I found that there was a very wide range of adjustment between my four tires. One wheel took about 1 turn of the star adjuster but another took about 5 or 6. All of them needed to be adjusted "tighter", for lack of a better word.

I suspect the noise I was hearing was because to get the desired amount of stopping force I had to have the controller juice cranked up which meant the tighter wheels were almost in lockup and the looser wheels were barely grabbing. Didn't have time for a test spin (and prodigy setting) yesterday so we'll see this week.

Anyway, I bought a 4 TON bottle jack for $16. Once I got to the trailer with all the equipment it was only about 45 minutes to adjust all four wheels. I used the 4x4 blocks and some Lynx Levelers to get the jack up high enough.

As a side note, even though I'd rather not lug around the bottle jack I'm adding it as a piece of standard TT equipment since there would be no other way to change a tire.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Good info Dan.









I might just add that, before crawling unde your trailer when jacked up, make sure your jack is secure and no solid ground. I would also recommend being hitched up to your TV with the emergency brake set, and all wheels possible chocked.

We carry a bottle jack in our Outback as well, but as far as being the only way to change a tire, there is another (probably safer) method. Being dual axle trailes, you can build a ramp with your leveling blocks under the 'good' wheel on the side you need to jack up. This will lift the bad wheel off the ground once you get up high enough. Just be sure to get high enough to also get the new tire on!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

PDX_Doug said:


> Good info Dan.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"""make sure your jack is secure and *no* solid ground."""

















Wouldn't that be dangerous having no solid ground -- LOL -- I figured you meant ON SOLID GROUND --


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## 7heaven (Jun 4, 2005)

Fat figners...


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Ghosty said:


> Wouldn't that be dangerous having no solid ground -- LOL -- I figured you meant ON SOLID GROUND --
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Opps! shy

And just my luck, a lawyer is the one that catches it.








Ghosty, do you want me to save time, and just send you my first born now?

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## ARzark (Aug 9, 2005)

An interesting point to consider... Outbacks come with one of two axle systems, the Alco or the Dexter axles. The Alco axles you need to adjust the brakes by popping the rubber cap on the inside of the hub towards the bottom (inside of the wheel), and then adjust the brakes by using a slotted tool or screwdriver to turn the star wheel adjuster.

On the Dexter axle system, the brakes are _self adjusting_ and there is no need to manually adjust. In fact, I can't gain access to the star adjuster wheel on my 5th wheel with Dexter axles. On our old 28bhs we had the Alco and I would adjust the brakes manually.

Check your literature that came with the Outback. Our new Outback came with both








Alco and Dexter literature. A quick check to see if you have Dexter... Look between the tires on the bracket mounted to the frame and where the springs bolt between the wheels. Mine has Dexter stamped on that bracket.


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## Txcamper (Apr 3, 2006)

Good safety tips.. I'll be checking my brakes before I take it out again. On our first big outing we drove over 2k miles.


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

Great info....I am going to check to see if mine are stamped.

Thor


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

Nice info
Haven't checked mine lately so I guess it's time to take look and see

Don


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Great info. Coincidentally, Puff is in for State Inspection and, believing that the brakes are out of sync, we're having them checked at the same time. We've officially exceeded the 2,000 mile mark.....

Don't know what kind of brakes we have, nor if we would adjust them ourselves (even if we can).....but certainly will check anyway when she comes home.


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

I gotta adjust mine too! Thanks!


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## CJ999 (Aug 11, 2005)

Excellent info. I live at the bottom of a 1000' grade that is the primary route of ingress/egress for the Coloma Thousand Trails Preserve about 1 mile away. Every so often I see a trailer suffer a blowout at the bottom of the grade. Last summer, an old guy with a blowout on a BIG 5th wheel pulled right into my driveway with it so I went out to help him. He said he felt like the brakes were out of adjustment and the blowout probably occurred on a hub where the brakes were grabbing earlier, causing more friction on the tire over the long grade. It sounded good too me so I just noted it and helped him out. In retrospect, and in light of this discussion, it is probably worth noting that the grade where he had the blowout is full of crosses from people who didn't make it to the bottom alive, and it gets a new one every couple months... so I'll be checking my brakes before we roll out on our summer trip!!!!


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Quick update. I got the Prodigy on and between that and the brake adjustment I feel like I have a new TT.

During the Prodigy setup you adjust based on locking the brakes up, so I was able to verify the noise I heard before was definitely one of the wheels grabbing way too heard for the amount of braking I was trying to do.

So loud noises coming from your wheels/brakes even at moderate braking is a good indicator that the brakes could be way out of adjustment.

Mine were out bad enough and the process was simple enough that this will be a standard part of my annual Spring checkup.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Dan,
Glad to hear you got your braking situation sorted out. Just out of curiosity, how many turns on the star adjuster did it take to get the brakes back up to spec? Were they close, or WAY off?

CJ999,
Great - and very sobering - anecdote. That should get us all crawling under our trailers!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Kenstand (Mar 25, 2004)

I do the brake adjustment each spring. My adjustment access is on the lower backside of each wheel. It takes about an hour to do all four wheels and I think I spend 50 minutes just trying to get the brake tool onto the star wheel spinner (its a bit awkward). Then I seem to always spin it the wrong way. As I recall the spin direction to tighten/loosen is different on the right/left side. Is that right?


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Need to do mine. Thanks for the reminder


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## OutbackPM (Sep 14, 2005)

BoaterDan said:


> Quick update. I got the Prodigy on and between that and the brake adjustment I feel like I have a new TT.
> 
> During the Prodigy setup you adjust based on locking the brakes up, so I was able to verify the noise I heard before was definitely one of the wheels grabbing way too heard for the amount of braking I was trying to do.
> 
> ...


I am just trying to figure out how the brakes work. On a normal hydraulic system the slack is taken up by the fluid in the cylinder (hence pedal movement) so if one drum is tight an another loose you will still get the same braking force on the shoe.

With electric brakes, which I have no familiarity with at all, the voltage (set by the prodigy) drives a current through a coil to drive a magnet that pushes the brake shoe. If you are loosely adujusted then does the magnet stick out of the coil more therfore reducing the force from the coil compared to one that is tight? That would be a variable difficult to adjust for. I would have thought over time that the magnet would loose some strength which would lead to unbalanced braking.

Anyone familiar with electric brakes and the normal or otherwise wear?

David


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## W4DRR (May 17, 2005)

Here is an animation from AL-KO that shows the guts, and how it actuates: AL-KO Brakes


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## OutbackPM (Sep 14, 2005)

W4DRR said:


> Here is an animation from AL-KO that shows the guts, and how it actuates: AL-KO Brakes
> [snapback]126155[/snapback]​


 The more I look at that animation the more confused I am. How does the magnet arc over 20 degrees. whats it attached to. Oh well! I'll check mine soon an see if I get any adjustment if I have that type. If they are the self adjusting then usually you need to opperate hard to get the mechanism to ratchet. If thats the case then using the prodigy lever set to the max would do that as best you can with electric.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

I thought I would come back here and just post a reminder that you'll probably want to readjust your brake controller if you need to make significant adjustments to the brakes. The Prodigy instructions even state that one reason you might need more boost is because of worn brakes.

Doug, one of the wheels was way off. I mean I turned and turned that thing before it even grabbed at all. Probably 4-5 full turns of the star wheel (with probably 4-5 "flips" with the tool to make the wheel turn one revolution). The other wheel on that side was pretty far off, but not that much, and the ones on the other side were both loose but not nearly as much. As a side note, you can imagine the safety issue with having them out of adjustment in that fashion - with one side of the trailer stopping more agressively than the other.

For me the direction was the same on both sides, which was flipping the star wheel up with the tool to tighten the brakes.

David, the statement in the manual was that the brakes will "seat", which I imagine is the reason for the 200 mile adjustment. After that the 3000 mile adjustment interval is probably just to account for wear or rattling.


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## W4DRR (May 17, 2005)

BoaterDan said:


> I thought I would come back here and just post a reminder that you'll probably want to readjust your brake controller if you need to make significant adjustments to the brakes. The Prodigy instructions even state that one reason you might need more boost is because of worn brakes.
> 
> Doug, one of the wheels was way off. I mean I turned and turned that thing before it even grabbed at all. Probably 4-5 full turns of the star wheel (with probably 4-5 "flips" with the tool to make the wheel turn one revolution). The other wheel on that side was pretty far off, but not that much, and the ones on the other side were both loose but not nearly as much. As a side note, you can imagine the safety issue with having them out of adjustment in that fashion - with one side of the trailer stopping more agressively than the other.
> 
> ...


BoaterDan, I'm glad you mentioned that. I have not adjusted mine yet, and was wondering which way you turn the star wheel to tighten. I didn't what to get under there and turn and turn and turn, only to find I turned it the wrong way. I wonder if something will fall off inside if it is turned too far in the wrong direction???
Also, do you have an official, bona fide, AL-KO seal of approval, adjustment tool, or are you using a screwdriver?

Bob


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

WAcamper said:


> An interesting point to consider... Outbacks come with one of two axle systems, the Alco or the Dexter axles. The Alco axles you need to adjust the brakes by popping the rubber cap on the inside of the hub towards the bottom (inside of the wheel), and then adjust the brakes by using a slotted tool or screwdriver to turn the star wheel adjuster.
> 
> On the Dexter axle system, the brakes are _self adjusting_ and there is no need to manually adjust. In fact, I can't gain access to the star adjuster wheel on my 5th wheel with Dexter axles. On our old 28bhs we had the Alco and I would adjust the brakes manually.
> 
> ...


I have Dexter axles and AL-KO wheel assemblies, which accounts for having both sets of literature in the manuals package.


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## ARzark (Aug 9, 2005)

GoVols said:


> WAcamper said:
> 
> 
> > An interesting point to consider... Outbacks come with one of two axle systems, the Alco or the Dexter axles. The Alco axles you need to adjust the brakes by popping the rubber cap on the inside of the hub towards the bottom (inside of the wheel), and then adjust the brakes by using a slotted tool or screwdriver to turn the star wheel adjuster.
> ...


Very interesting! That's a new one for me. How can you tell if you have the AL-KO hubs with Dexter Axles?? I assumed since I can't pull the little plug to adjust the brakes that I had the Dexter hubs as well (Dexter stamped on the center support). Hmmm..... Suddenly I feel the need to crawl under the OB and explore a little more. Gonna go right now and check...

ON EDIT: Ok, just went out and crawled under the OB. I do have the Dexter hubs, and it's stamped on the lower part of the hub. After closer inspection I was able to pull the plug to access the star wheel adjuster. DUH! Problem is, I cant feel it or catch it in there









So now my curiosity is peaked... I now want to find out if there is a manual adjustment with Dexter, and also exactly how does the Dexter axle system self-adjust? Remember the vehicles with the disc drums on the rear not so long ago, if you would travel in reverse and jam on the brakes it would adjust the brake shoes. Hmmm...


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

W4DRR said:


> BoaterDan, I'm glad you mentioned that. I have not adjusted mine yet, and was wondering which way you turn the star wheel to tighten. I didn't what to get under there and turn and turn and turn, only to find I turned it the wrong way. I wonder if something will fall off inside if it is turned too far in the wrong direction???
> Also, do you have an official, bona fide, AL-KO seal of approval, adjustment tool, or are you using a screwdriver?
> 
> Bob
> [snapback]126425[/snapback]​


I have a not-so-official brake adjustment tool. Because it has a very wide blade but isn't so long and is angled at the end I think it may be slightly easier to use for this purpose, but it seems like a screwdriver would work fine.


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

A couple of tips from the guys at Emerald Coast RV in Panama City, FL:

1. Use a "brake tool" (cheap and readily available at an Auto Parts place).

2. The wheel should be jacked rather than just lifting the trailer by pulling the other wheel on the same side. When you lift a wheel free of the ground by driving the other wheel up on a chock it places enormous stress on the opposite wheel bearings.

3. A properly adjusted wheel will spin free for 1 and a half complete revolutions and will come to a positive stop.

Emerald Coast was very generous. They gave us access to two technicians who answered all of our questions. They did this during the Southeastern Outbackers Summer Rally in Destin. I hope this is repeated at other rallies because we learned a lot.

Reverie


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## W4DRR (May 17, 2005)

Reverie said:


> A couple of tips from the guys at Emerald Coast RV in Panama City, FL:
> 
> 1. Use a "brake tool" (cheap and readily available at an Auto Parts place).
> 
> ...


Nick, have you actually done your brakes yourself?

Bob


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Kenstand that is probably that one side is one direction and the other side is the other. They would have to have provided reverse threads to make the adjustment go the same way.

BE CAREFUL FOLKS WHEN YOU DO THIS! YOU COULD LOCK THEM UP THEN YOUR IN A WORLD OF HURT. DON'T THINK THIS IS AN EASY JOB AND THAT IT REQUIRES NO THOUGHT. US DO IT YOUR SELFERS HAVE ALL MADE OUR MISTAKES BUT THIS IS ONE YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE.

Do the adjustments slowly and what you are looking for is resistance as in just a little resistance and then stop. So adjust just a very little at a time and spin the wheel with the tire on and check for resistance. Once you hear the pads rubbing against the drums stop. Try to adjust them to the same feel all around.


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## countrygirl (Apr 9, 2006)

I keep reading about Outback manuals...I got paperwork on different components in our OB (we bought used) But I did not get an OB manual... I will need to double check to see if we have anything on the brakes or NOT. I don't remember seeing it...

If there is a specific manual for a 2005 OB do you think I could order one from Keystone?


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

NJMikeC said:


> Kenstand that is probably that one side is one direction and the other side is the other. They would have to have provided reverse threads to make the adjustment go the same way.
> 
> BE CAREFUL FOLKS WHEN YOU DO THIS! YOU COULD LOCK THEM UP THEN YOUR IN A WORLD OF HURT. DON'T THINK THIS IS AN EASY JOB AND THAT IT REQUIRES NO THOUGHT. US DO IT YOUR SELFERS HAVE ALL MADE OUR MISTAKES BUT THIS IS ONE YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE.
> 
> ...


Mike, I have to respectfully disagree.

It IS an easy job. The only thing that made me nervous was jacking up the trailer - which should always be done VERY carefully of course. The situation of the 4 brakes' adjustment being terribly mismatched could also get you in a "world of hurt". I can say from how far mine were off I'm darn lucky I didn't need an emergency stop for the two trips I took on them in that condition.

As I said earlier, it's important to readjust the brake controller afterward as you may have changed the braking agressiveness substantially.

Mine adjusted the same direction on both sides. I don't think there is a left vs. right version, so they should be the same on both sides. (If there is a left vs. right difference then everything is backwards in there and it still wouldn't be surprising they'd adjust by turning in the same direction relative to the little slot.)


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## STRABO (Jun 12, 2006)

Ok, what is the safest way to jack up the TT for brake adjustment. I too, am a bit leery of climbing under anything that may end my RV experience before I've had one.

STRABO
(I've yet to figure out how to do the signature thing!!)


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

I use a hydraulic jack and jack stands under the frame to hold it up while I work on it. Although I took the lazy man's approach this time and took my trailer to my mechanic and paid him to repack the wheel bearings and inspect/adjust the brakes.

Mike


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