# Digital Camera Reccomendation



## Erik

I have seen some great pictures posted on Outbackers.com and I would love to get a digital camera does anyone have a reccomendation?

Thanks
Erik


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## Scrib

I really like my Cannon PowerShot A630 (8 megapixles, about $250). It takes fantastic pictures, has image stabalization, takes good movies, and runs (forever) on standard AA batteries. The pictures are huge though, so you also need to get a 1GB (or larger) memory card ($20).

A good companion on the PC side is PhotoShop Elements 5.0, about $80.

Good luck!


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## Husker92

Anyone of the cannon cameras will work. They are easy to use and take great pictures.


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## LarryTheOutback

Canon Cameras (2) and Adobe Photoshop Elements for us.

You don't need much more than 5 (maybe 6) Megapixels. The cool thing is that there are some great cameras at the 5-6 Megapixel level, and the prices are much lower than the higher Megapixel camers you don't really need anyway. For example, you can make 300 pixel-per-inch 5"x7" photos  with a 3 Megapixel camera.

You can find some great bargins by looking several megapixel's behind where the market is focused. Since you don't really need a 10 Megapixel camera for most needs you can buy a great camera at a great price by not getting sucked into the Megapixel wars.

Good review site for cameras is http://www.steves-digicams.com/.

Ed


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## GoVols

I have my digital SLR and its accessories, but I also have a "walk around" digicam, a Canon A610. I would highly recommend the Canon Powershot "A" series for one simple reason: it uses standard AA batteries. My first digicam was a Sony that took great pictures, but had a proprietary battery. With the Canon A series, you have world-wide access to AA batteries and no excuse to be caught with a dead battery. It also has a 4X optical zoom which also is handy for longer shots

In addtion, purchase a set of rechargeable NiMH batteries and a high quality charger (like Maha Energy; don't skimp on the charger or you won't get maximum benefit of the batts). Even with the rechargeables, I carry a backup set of AAs in the camera pouch just in case. You can find good sales on SD memory cards too; a 1GB card can hold over 500 pictures at the camera's highest resolution.


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## Colorado Outbacker

Canon Powershot 6, 7, or 8 megapixel depending on what you want to spend. Adobe Photoshop elements. 1GB Memory card. Always print on good photo paper and you will be pleased with the outcome.

Take Care
Tony


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## LarryTheOutback

GoVols said:


> I would highly recommend the Canon Powershot "A" series for one simple reason: it uses standard AA batteries. <snip> purchase a set of rechargeable NiMH batteries and a high quality charger (like Maha Energy; don't skimp on the charger or you won't get maximum benefit of the batts).


I chose the Canon "A" series for exactly this reason. I too have Maha batteries and charger ... the charger either plugs in to 110 or 12V, so when I am dry camping I can still charge my AA's. I have run into several people who couldn't take pictures because their proprietary battery was dead and they were dry camping and couldn't recharge it.

Ed


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## Kyoutbacker

Canon S3i .


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## watervalleykampers

The Canon EOS Rebel XT digital works great for us!


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## CanadaCruizin

We originally had a Canon Powershot (can't recall the exact model -- 5 or 6 megapixel) but found it wasn't able to capture action shots due to the delay of when you press the shutter release, and the time it takes the camera to "process" the image. By that time, the action was done. Ie: someone running, jumping, etc. Found it very frustrating.

Sold it, and bought a Digital Canon EOS Rebel XT. This is an SLR which operates exactly like our Canon SLR Film camera. We have a 1.0 GB memory stick and the battery (not AA) recharges pretty quickly (30 minutes or so).

We really enjoy the camera, and use PaintShop Pro or PhotoShop to edit, crop, manipulate the pictures. Oh, it also can use the 80-200 zoom lens that I bought for the Canon film camera.

Jody


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## skippershe

I use an older Kodak Easyshare camera for quick shots, and just got a Nikon D50 with extra lenses and detachable flash unit.

I like the Kodak because the photo sizes are smaller and easier to upload, I plan to use the Nikon for my son's sports and scenic/landscape photos...Especially at the 2007 Western Region Outbackers Rally in Zion this summer!


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## LarryTheOutback

CanadaCruizin said:


> We originally had a Canon Powershot (can't recall the exact model -- 5 or 6 megapixel) but found it wasn't able to capture action shots due to the delay of when you press the shutter release, and the time it takes the camera to "process" the image. By that time, the action was done. Ie: someone running, jumping, etc. Found it very frustrating.


Many (most?) point-and-shoot digital cameras do exactly this. One way to reduce this time is to depress the shutter release halfway in order to do the autofocus, then when you are ready to shoot you depress the shutter release the rest of the way.

The digital SLRs also have a delay as compared to their film counterparts, but it seems to be much shorter than the point-and-shoot cameras.

Ed


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too

I have the Panasonic DMC-f27 with 12 zoom and I think 6 or 7 megapixel. I got the super duper zoom for when we are traveling. It does wonderful and has image stabilization. It can also be used manually but then I'd have to learn stuff so auto buttons work for me. It has several auto setting, like actions, snow, etc.The close ups have been wonderful as well. Now I want a nice little thin camera for the grab the camera and get a quick shot moments around home. However. the Sony has a HUGE window and these old eyes sure appreciate it!


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## J1R

http://kenrockwell.com/tech.htm

I used this site when I bought my wife her nikon d70. More info than you want


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too

got mine at BeachCamera.com....it was the cheapest at the time. $268


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## Lady Di

Fugi Fine Pix S5200. Works great, takes great photos.


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## Erik

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I think I am going to get a Canon A630 based on your reccomendations and reviews. I also like that I can get an underwater case for this model since we spend a lot of the time at the springs here in Florida and it would be neat to be able to take some pictures there. For those of you who haven't experienced the Florida Springs the water is 72 degrees year round, crystal clear and is like swimming in an aquarium. I highly reccomend any of the Florida springs for those traveling to Florida. There are even some close to Disney.

Erik


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## TLC+3

Our first digital camera was an olympus C-60. It was 6 MP. It took great pix and fair quality movies. The delay was about average for a digital camera. I had two complaints about it. The first was camera shake when zoomed in (it lacked image stabilization). The second had to do with the lens cover. It had one of those sliding ones that turned off the camera when you closed it. Both my wife and I were constantally missing a shot because we nudged the lens cap and the camera turned off.

About two weeks ago it broke. (Tip - never let a 3 year old take a picture, no matter how much she begs







). We replaced it with a Kodak Easy Share z612. It is also 6 MP and was about $220+/- at Costco. I really like it. The shutter delay, while still present is much less noticeable than the old camera. It has image stabilization and 12x optical zoom. The movie quality is a little better than the Olypmus. It is an SLR type with an "old fashioned" style lens cap that slips over the lens - eliminating the possibility of inadvertantly turning off the power. It works great as a point and shoot - which my wife likes. I like to get a little artsy with the camera at times, so I use the manual controls for things like fireworks or to control the depth of field. I love the fact that on the Kodak the manual controls for aperature, ISO and shutter speed are displayed on the view finder (not buried under 10 menus) and are intuitively controlled. It is larger than a point and shoot style. You can't put it in your pocket but that also makes it easier to hold. Sorry to go on and on, but you know how it is with a new toy.

I agree with what others said about megapixels. My wife does a lot of digital scrapbooking and blows up/crops photos for extreme close ups fairly often. She never get any fuzziness or granularity with the 6 MP so in my opinion it is not worth the extra $$$ for more MP. I think 5 to 6 MP with a good lens and optical (not digital) zoom is all most of us will ever need.

There are a lot of great cameras out there. Good luck with your search.

- Tim


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## NJMikeC

Don't bat an eye and go right to a Digital SLR. Digital SLR's have no delay so you just fire away with them. The non-SLR's really frustrate me with their delays and actually ruin many pictures, especially of kids. If you need that picture just at that instant then go with a D-SLR . I have a Nikon D50 the cheap one ,but boy it is good and is likely about $500. They all likely have a "sport mode" which lets you just reel off shots to almost make a "still movie".

Wolfwood knows camera's ask her.


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## N7OQ

I have had a Canon Digital Rebel for a few years now and love it, so I bought the DW one for Christmas, hers is better than mine, my Rebel has 6.3 mp and the WD's has 10.1 plus hers is all black and mine is silver body. I plan to buy a new body in the future and just use my older one for Astronomy only. Plus you can't beat the price.

Love the Canon cameras.


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## H2oSprayer

N7OQ said:


> I plan to buy a new body in the future and just use my older one for Astronomy only. Plus you can't beat the price.


And to think that I waste all of that time at the gym.....


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## Scott and Jamie

We use a Kodak DX6490 Does the job but would like a much better cam.

Scott


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## Y-Guy

I managed to damage my Minolta DiMage Z3 so needed a new camera. I wanted a minimum of 5 mega pixels and at least a 10x optical zoom with image stabilization, I found the Kodak Z612 with 6MP 12x zoom, IS and found it on Dell.com for about $199

Had good reviews from stevesdigicams.com and the price was right. Plus we use the Z650 (no image stab) and have good results.


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## H2oSprayer

I have a question about lenses. I was looking at the Nicon D50 and I see that there are several lenses available. This is the page that I was getting my info from --> Express Camera. How does a lens that is 28-80mm or 28-300mm (I assume that this is the zoom) compare to something like "5 times zoom" or "12 times zoom"? Would the basic 28-80mm be okay for most picture taking or should I upgrade to a bigger one? Thanks for helping to clear this up.


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## N7OQ

H2oSprayer said:


> We use a Kodak DX6490 Does the job but would like a much better cam.
> 
> Scott


My first digital was a Kodak camera I think a DC290 and even though it was only 2.1 mp it took great pictures and I still like all my old pictures.


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## Oregon_Camper

We have a Canon SD500 and I really like it. Has just enough features to take great shots, but not too many features to confuse (that is easily done with my photo knowledge)


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## shake1969

I use a Casio. It's an old Indian word for "cheap".

It's a 6mp, so it takes good photo sized photos.

The most important thing is to get a camera with a LITHUIM ION RECHARGEABLE BATTERY.

DO NOT get one with rechargeable NiMH or NiCad AAA's. You will be disappointed.

Good luck, hope it works out for you.


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## Nathan

H2oSprayer said:


> I have a question about lenses. I was looking at the Nicon D50 and I see that there are several lenses available. This is the page that I was getting my info from --> Express Camera. How does a lens that is 28-80mm or 28-300mm (I assume that this is the zoom) compare to something like "5 times zoom" or "12 times zoom"? Would the basic 28-80mm be okay for most picture taking or should I upgrade to a bigger one? Thanks for helping to clear this up.


Any Nikon user out there should check out www.nikonians.com

Chris, the 'mm' rating of a lens is acutally much better than the 'x' rating used by the cheap point and shoots. However, as a quick guide divide the mm by 35, so the 300mm lens will be 9-10x.

I would strongly recommend a 28-300 if you only want one lens. The 28-80 will limit you if you are shooting distances or such. Personally, I have a 10-20mm, a 24-135mm, and a 135-400mm with my D100. That covers almost anything I need.


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## GoVols

H2oSprayer said:


> I have a question about lenses. I was looking at the Nicon D50 and I see that there are several lenses available. This is the page that I was getting my info from --> Express Camera. How does a lens that is 28-80mm or 28-300mm (I assume that this is the zoom) compare to something like "5 times zoom" or "12 times zoom"? Would the basic 28-80mm be okay for most picture taking or should I upgrade to a bigger one? Thanks for helping to clear this up.


You can quickly get into complex answers with a question like that. A lot of times you will see lenses like a 28-80 or even 28-200mm called a "walk-around" lens since those cover such a broad focal length. That's great if you don't want to lug around a bag of lenses. Keep in mind two generalizations though: the more focal length covered in a zoom, the lower quality the picture. There are so many lens elements required to get a big focal range, that it degrades the quality or 'darkens' the lens. (This can be overcome somewhat in high-dollar professional lenses.) Second, most consumer D-SLRs are not full frame 35mm cameras. Their sensors are smaller, so a 'crop-factor' comes into play. On a Nikon, I believe it is a 1.5X factor, meaning a 28mm focal length is effectively 42mm on the Nikon D-SLR. On the other hand, the 1.5X factor helps on the long end of the lens, making that 200mm work like a 300mm on the DSLR. I say all that for this reason: you may be disappointed in a zoom that starts on the low end at 28mm since it is effectively a 42mm on the wide end. This may limit you on wide-angle shots. This is why many manufacturers have started offering much wider (like 17mm) zooms -- to account for the crop factor of DSLR sensors. (Of course, you could opt for a $3000 full-frame DSLR and not have to worry about crop factor!)

When looking at lenses, remember that the stated focal length is based on a 35mm camera and you must convert it if you have a less-than-full frame camera. If you want a good zoom to handle most picture taking, start looking at zooms down in the 17mm range instead. For instance, I have two primary lenses when I carry my DSLR: a 17-55mm and a 70-300mm IS zoom. These two, along with a 50mm prime, are what is in my camera bag.


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## map guy

FYI you might want to do some reseach on expresscameras.com before making a large ticket purchase there.
Express Camera Ratings

Hate to see anyone have a bad experience that could be avoided.

For what it is worth!

MAp Guy


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## imabeachbum

As others above have stated, your best bet is two lenses. I have a D70 (wish Id have waited for the D80 but....oh well) and with the D70 I have an 18-70mm lens that came with the camera and later purchased a 55-200mm for distance shooting. For a non professional just looking to get some decent shots these two lengths work out just right for me. My wife has shot a lot of flowers and such with the 18-70 and gotten some fantastic shots, probably not as good as with a dedicated macro lens - but the main thing is what you want to use the camera for. I would recommend (if your looking at DSLRs) to buy one that has a lens with it and after using it for a while you will know if you need additional lenses or not. If your not in the SLR market, and just want a point and shoot, I would also recommend looking at the Olympus Stylus line, we have a Stylus 800 that we took to Jamaica and got some really nice shots including sunny beach with blazing white sand to night shots.

Personal pros and cons of DSLR vs point and shoot - DSLRs take fantastic pictures all the time, P&S quality isnt quite as good (but is still very







)P&S are much lighter and less bulky if you do any hiking, DSLRs can be a pain to lug around for 2-3 hours. We take both cameras when camping and depending on the mood is which one we use.

Happy hunting and I hope you find the camera you want.

Regards

Alan

PS - Which springs do you live near, I grew up in Deland and spent many hours in both Ponce DeLeon Springs and Blue Springs


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## H2oSprayer

Thanks everyone for the info on the lenses. I did notice that the D50 is no longer being made, so I'm not sure if I will go with it, or with the D70. We want to replace our Olympus P&S with a D-SLR. I have to do a bit more research on which one.

Map Guy, thanks for the link with their seller ratings. I think I'll pass on their offerings.


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## LarryTheOutback

shake1969 said:


> I use a Casio. <snip> The most important thing is to get a camera with a LITHUIM ION RECHARGEABLE BATTERY. DO NOT get one with rechargeable NiMH or NiCad AAA's. You will be disappointed.


I couldn't disagree more. Perhaps your experience with AAA's has to do with the particular camera you have; I've heard that some cameras/brands really eat batteries. Others don't.

Both of my Canon's go for weeks without needing a freshly charged set of NiMH batteries. During our "Land Cruise" last summer we travelled for 7 weeks and I only recharged the batteries twice during the trip (and once when we got home); we took plenty of pictures in that time, including many with flash. I recharged them because I was nervous I'd run out of power, not because they actually ran out of power.

If you look above in this thread you'll see a discussion of NiMH rechargable batteries (two of us cited Maha batteries). In particular pay attention to the 12V recharge, something you can't do with the proprietary batteries, at least as far as I researched it. We dry camp often, and love being able to recharge the camera batteries (if needed ... see above) without the need to plug into 120V. Indeed in one (dry) campground we saw a row of proprietary-battery cameras plugged into the outlet in the camp office. The manager says "Oh, we have to do this all the time."

Ed


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## shake1969

LarryTheOutback said:


> I couldn't disagree more. Perhaps your experience with AAA's has to do with the particular camera you have; I've heard that some cameras/brands really eat batteries. Others don't.
> 
> Ed


Good point, I admit I haven't examined ALL possible NiMH battery and camera combinations. Perhaps I should've said, your mileage may vary. Mine sure has.

Of course, the high end cameras are probably not running AAA batteries, anyway. I sure like the fact that the new Casio I have uses lithium. Slimmer and seems to work so much better than my old HP.


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## LarryTheOutback

LarryTheOutback said:


> it wasn't able to capture action shots due to the delay of when you press the shutter release, and the time it takes the camera to "process" the image.


One way to reduce this time is to depress the shutter release halfway in order to do the autofocus, then when you are ready to shoot you depress the shutter release the rest of the way.[/quote]
I was at Boy Scout camp the weekend and had lots of time to practice with action shots. It turns out my comment above was only partially correct. I discovered my camera (Canon A610) does two things when you press the shutter release half way ... it does auto focus and (in low light) charges the flash. Charging the flash took way longer than the autofocus, and turned out to be 90% of my problem.

So ... when getting ready for an action shot I now press half-way, wait for the flash to charge. Then, when I push the shutter all the way the picture is nearly instantaneous. This technique means I won't miss as many action shots as before.

Too bad the camera won't charge the flash on its own so it is ready when I am.

Ed


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## CanadaCruizin

LarryTheOutback said:


> it wasn't able to capture action shots due to the delay of when you press the shutter release, and the time it takes the camera to "process" the image.


One way to reduce this time is to depress the shutter release halfway in order to do the autofocus, then when you are ready to shoot you depress the shutter release the rest of the way.[/quote]
I was at Boy Scout camp the weekend and had lots of time to practice with action shots. It turns out my comment above was only partially correct. I discovered my camera (Canon A610) does two things when you press the shutter release half way ... it does auto focus and (in low light) charges the flash. Charging the flash took way longer than the autofocus, and turned out to be 90% of my problem.

So ... when getting ready for an action shot I now press half-way, wait for the flash to charge. Then, when I push the shutter all the way the picture is nearly instantaneous. This technique means I won't miss as many action shots as before.

Too bad the camera won't charge the flash on its own so it is ready when I am.

[/quote]

Ed,
We found the delay in our Powershot didn't provide the ability to take spontaneous pictures. We kept missing the shot despite pre-setting the camera (holding shutter button half-down, flash charged & ready to go). I also found that I couldn't keep holding the button down to anticipate the shot because the camera would shut itself off after it's auto-shutoff kicked in. Grr... "quick power-on, reset the shot, hold button... Drat - missed the shot" was causing me grief.

The opportunity to purchase the Digital Rebel XT was too good to pass up.

Jody


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## LarryTheOutback

CanadaCruizin said:


> We found the delay in our Powershot didn't provide the ability to take spontaneous pictures.


This is very product dependent. It's a great thing to try before you buy. For me, I now understand how to work around this, and it's no longer an issue for me. I like my camera better now.

Ed


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## kevman

I am on my 5th digital camera. They have all been either Sony or Canon cameras and they have all had very unacceptable shutter delays. My current camera is the Canon Powershow S3 IS. I have found a good solution for getting rid of almost all of the shutter delay. The memory stick is the key. Buy an upgraded membor stick made for cameras and the delay is greatly reduced. I bought a 1gig Scan Disk Ultra II and my delay is almost nonexistent. I bought the 1gig less the rebate for about $20 and $35 without the rebate. Man what a difference that memory card has made.


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## LarryTheOutback

kevman said:


> The memory stick is the key. Buy an upgraded membor stick made for cameras and the delay is greatly reduced.


It's not just the memory, nor the autofocus, nor is there necessarily anything wrong with the camera. There are indeed several reasons for the delays people are reporting in this thread:
Charging the Flash (only in low-light conditions)
Auto Focus
Charging the CCD, getting the image out of the CCD and through the processing pipeline
Writing to the storage medium (affects ability to do multiple shots in a row)
Item 1 can be mitigated by menu settings in the camera, or in some cases by forcing a charge by pressing the shutter release part way while composing the picture.

Item 2 can be mitigated by pressing the shutter release part way and getting an acceptable focus point(s) prior to the action shot.

Item 3 is fixed per camera model.

Item 4 can be reduced by getting a faster storage card.

On the web these fit into the category of "shutter lag". "Shutter lag" is used pretty casually to mean 2&3, 2,3 & 4, 3 by itself, 3 and 4, and sometimes 1, 2, 3 and 4. Camera specs seem to more consistently cite 3 and sometimes separately 2.

I'd recommend looking over the web to get a better understanding of the problem, then experiment with your camera. In playing with my camera I've changed the way I use the camera in low-light conditions to eliminate 1 & 2, and I have a fast storage card to help out with 4.

Here are a few good articles: dummies.com, Digicamhelp.com, creativepro.com here  and their article "How to Press a Shutter Button" (scroll 2/3 of the way down). 

I'm sure glad for this thread. It caused me to learn about this and experimenting, I am dramatically happier with my camera.

Ed


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## kevman

LarryTheOutback said:


> The memory stick is the key. Buy an upgraded membor stick made for cameras and the delay is greatly reduced.


It's not just the memory, nor the autofocus, nor is there necessarily anything wrong with the camera. There are indeed several reasons for the delays people are reporting in this thread:
Charging the Flash (only in low-light conditions)
Auto Focus
Charging the CCD, getting the image out of the CCD and through the processing pipeline
Writing to the storage medium (affects ability to do multiple shots in a row)
Item 1 can be mitigated by menu settings in the camera, or in some cases by forcing a charge by pressing the shutter release part way while composing the picture.

Item 2 can be mitigated by pressing the shutter release part way and getting an acceptable focus point(s) prior to the action shot.

Item 3 is fixed per camera model.

Item 4 can be reduced by getting a faster storage card.

On the web these fit into the category of "shutter lag". "Shutter lag" is used pretty casually to mean 2&3, 2,3 & 4, 3 by itself, 3 and 4, and sometimes 1, 2, 3 and 4. Camera specs seem to more consistently cite 3 and sometimes separately 2.

I'd recommend looking over the web to get a better understanding of the problem, then experiment with your camera. In playing with my camera I've changed the way I use the camera in low-light conditions to eliminate 1 & 2, and I have a fast storage card to help out with 4.

Here are a few good articles: dummies.com, Digicamhelp.com, creativepro.com here  and their article "How to Press a Shutter Button" (scroll 2/3 of the way down). 

I'm sure glad for this thread. It caused me to learn about this and experimenting, I am dramatically happier with my camera.

Ed
[/quote] 
Thanks for the great info.


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## GoVols

Most all point and shoot digicams suffer from various degrees of slow shutters, slow write speeds and slow "time to first picture". There are some trade-offs for the compact size. I love my Canon A610 for what it does. However, if I am in a setting where I need instant-on readiness and catching action shots, I am going to use my Rebel XT. It is ready to take a picture in 1/4 of a second from "off", and can take 14 continuous shots at 3 frames per second before having to write to the CF card. (The A610 does have a 'continuous shooting' mode, but I have not tried using it.)

And as I mentioned earlier, don't skimp on batteries and battery chargers. They are not all created equal. The Rayovac Fast Charger sold at Wally World and other places does a poor job at fully utilizing rechargeable batteries. Ultra fast chargers also may overheat batteries, shortening their useful lives and occasionally have been known to cause batteries to burst. Many studies have been done and are published on batteries and chargers. Consistently, batteries from Maha/Powerex and Maha Energy chargers are rated among the best. I didn't realize what I had been missing until I started using a Maha charger.


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## wolfwood

NJMikeC said:


> Wolfwood knows camera's ask her.


<blush> awwwwww, gee whiz Mike! Thanks. But there are lots of VERY knowledgeable camera folks on here. In fact, I'm thinking Doug should open a Photography forum just to keep all this kind of info in an easy to find / easy to use place!!! Its clear that the camera one "should" get is the camera which best suits YOUR needs. There's been a lot of excellent info shared here - from batteries to lenses. Several of us have D-SLRs...but they may not be right for you. In fact, I have a Nikon D-200 - sexiest camera I've _EVER _ owned (maybe the LAST camera I'll ever own!!!). It has capabilities I never even dreamed of, but I still have and use my little digital Konica-Minolta. In fact, I still have & use my faithfull 29yr/o Minolta 200 SLR film camera for certain things.

For those of you who may be considering a D-SLR, here is the thread that built up around my having asked for opinions last Fall... D-SLR clicky thing.

There are so many options out there and so much excellent research to be found, not to mention a myriad of pros & camera shops who are great sources of real life info as the LOVE to talk about their trade! Enjoy your education but don't let it bog you down too far. At some point, make your decision, buy the camera, and get out there and start taking pictures! Any of us who have been playing this game for any amount of time know that there will always be a bigger, badder, cooler camera in the market soon (no matter when you buy!). That's what birthdays are for









Enjoy!!!


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## H2oSprayer

Okay guys, we need help deciding which one to get. We are looking for an entry level D-SLR. We went to our local camera store (yes, a camera store, not a camera / refrigerator / sofa / etc. store) but a camera store. I think that at this point, we are trying to decide between a Nikon D40 and an Olympus Evolt E-500. At this point, I think that we are leaning toward the E-500. However, I would like some opinions of some people that actually know D-SLR's, as I am just learning about them.


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## wolfwood

H2oSprayer said:


> Okay guys, we need help deciding which one to get. We are looking for an entry level D-SLR. We went to our local camera store (yes, a camera store, not a camera / refrigerator / sofa / etc. store) but a camera store. I think that at this point, we are trying to decide between a Nikon D40 and an Olympus Evolt E-500. At this point, I think that we are leaning toward the E-500. However, I would like some opinions of some people that actually know D-SLR's, as I am just learning about them.


Hi Chris,

Olympus makes good cameras (that's where I started in the Digital game) but, between these 2 manfuacturers, no question - Nikon has the superior optics and, with for a D-SLR...that's the way I'd lean (in fact - that's the way I FELL !!!!). I am not familiar with the specific cameras you've chosen but, as you're planning to invest ($$, time, family memories) in a D-SLR, I presume you are a serious amateur photographer and want your photos to be all they can be. Photo quality is still the responsibility of the one behind the camera...even with all the hi-tech gadgetry available and the really cool 'puter programs. But, the optical quality INSIDE the camera _does_ make a difference....and Nikon has the best!! (Canon users - calm down!)

That being said, which camera is best for you depends enormously on what you want to do with it, how it "feels" to you (ease of using the controls you're interested in, weight, balance in your hands, etc.), and whether you intend it as a "long term" extension of your arm or as an entry point with a new, more expansive model likely to come along later. Either way, consider also the ability to 'grow' with the camera. Does it have only what you're looking for now? or are there capabilities that you may not use now but will want in 6 mths after you've gotten comfy with the rest of the camera?

Enjoy the hunt!

Just my .02.....


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## PDX_Doug

wolfwood said:


> the optical quality INSIDE the camera _does_ make a difference....and Nikon has the best!! (Canon users - calm down!)



















...







...









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## GoVols

Nikon D40 and Canon Rebel XT are very good entry DSLRs. You should also consider future upgrade paths and accessories like lenses and future resale value. If you start buying lenses for a particular model then later on upgrade your camera, you are pretty much stuck with the same brand unless you chunk all your lenses you bought too.

Canon and Nikon both have huge systems; Olympus lags them on depth.

I challenge anyone who says there are photographic quality differences between the two within the same price range. Each does have their own characteristics, but are equally good. If you know how to use your camera's settings, a $150 point and shoot can take just as good of a picture as a $1000 DSLR!

You can get a D40 and a Rebel XT for about the same price. I would steer away from Olympus simply because Canon and Nikon have such a huge base of users and choices.


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## skippershe

Here's a sample of an action shot taken with my Nikon D50 in the Auto position. No delays and has a setting for shooting continous frames. No way could my Kodak EasyShare have taken this...

I have two lenses, First is a Nikon DX AF-S Nikkor 18-70mm for close ups, portraits and wide angle shots...second is a Tamron AF70-300 Tele-Macro which was used for this photo. I also purchased the Nikon Speedlight SB600 external flash, which allows you to bounce your flash on objects such as a ceiling or wall instead of the built in flash which always seems to be way too bright. I also have two rechargable NIMH batteries so I always have a backup ready to go.

I love this camera!

I think that if my son was actually watching the ball, he would have hit it


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## H2oSprayer

skippershe said:


>


Okay, now you guys have me leaning towards the Nikon. That is a great shot. While I was at the camera store, I learned that they have phased out the D50 and replaced it with the D40. The D40 and the Olympus E-500 are darn near the same size and weight. My DW said that the E-500 felt better in her hands then the D40. I guess that another trip to the camera shop is in order. They are real good about letting you try them out at the shop.


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## wolfwood

skippershe said:


> Here's a sample of an action shot taken with my Nikon D50 in the Auto position. No delays and has a setting for shooting continous frames. No way could my Kodak EasyShare have taken this...
> ........
> I love this camera!
> 
> I think that if my son was actually watching the ball, he would have hit it


NICE SHOT!!!!!!!



> I guess that another trip to the camera shop is in order. They are real good about letting you try them out at the shop.


 Be sure to try them both and see how long it takes between depressing the shutter release and actually taking the picture, also how long it takes for the camera to cycle...how long before its able to take another photo. If you take flash photos...check out the flash cycle time, too.

If you do this with both cameras, one after the other, you may find you're more comfortable with the timing on one more than the other. There's nothing much more frustrating than not being able to get an action shot because of an uncomfortably slow cycle time. You certainly can learn to adjust to your camera...but that's one thing that could be eliminated in the puzzle....if its important to you....


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## Chacfamily

I just got the Olympus E-500 a couple of weeks ago and LOVE it! I wanted a lot of sports shots and with the telephoto lens that comes with it, it was the perfect choice for me. Took it to an out of town soccer tournament last weekend and got some incredible shots. I still have to read the book and find out exactly how to use it, but so far, I'm a happy camper. No delay, continuous shooting is quick...couldn't ask for more!

BTW we bought it online from DBUYS.com and saved $60 on the price, no tax and they threw in a 1 GB flashcard.


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## Oregon_Camper

skippershe said:


> I think that if my son was actually watching the ball, he would have hit it


Sure looks like he is looking at the ball. By the looks of it...I thought is he hit it out of the park.


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## skippershe

There are tons of Nikon D50's on eBay still new with warranties. I can't get the insert link to work...Try Cameta Auctions on eBay, I purchased a flash from them for my old Nikon N80 film camera and I had a good experience with them.

BTW, the description for the D50 says 2.5 frames per second in continuous shooting mode.


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## H2oSprayer

skippershe said:


> Try Cameta Auctions on eBay


Thanks for the tip. I strolled over to the site at it looks like they are selling the camera with Tamron autofocus lens. Are they a good lens compared to the Nikon that the local camera shop would be selling with the camera? They have a good price compared to my local shop. The the fact that it comes with all of the "extras" for less $$ then my local shop and all of their positive feedback is also a +.

Edit: Here is a link to one of their auctions --> clicky


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## GoVols

I am a Canon user myself, but if you are just starting out, go with the Nikon D40 kit, and spring for a nice telephoto to boot. I would skip the D40x; it just bumps up the megapixels to 10 to compete with the Canon Rebel XTi. Megapixels are over-hyped in our bigger-is-better world. How many of us are going to, or even able to, print 24X36 photgraphic quality prints?

Another post links to a recent article about prices for entry DSLRs will plummet later this year since the point and shoot market has matured. The Rebel XT and the D40 are already in the mid $500s.

Be careful when buying cameras and lenses online. Make sure that they have USA warranties and not international warranties!

Give Amazon a shot too. No sales tax and free shipping. I have bought my cameras and lenses from them, as well as my new iMac. Saved hundreds of dollars on tax and shipping.


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## PDX_Doug

GoVols said:


> Megapixels are over-hyped in our bigger-is-better world. How many of us are going to, or even able to, print 24X36 photgraphic quality prints?


I would agree with that... to a point.

But there is another angle to consider. The more pixels you have, the more ability to pull a small area out of a photo, and enlarge that portion to 'normal' size, and still maintain photo lab quality output. I have a lot of photos that when considered in whole, are less than spectacular. But often, hidden in that photo is a smaller, much more dramatic shot. Having lots of pixels allows me to crop away 80-90% of the original picture, and have a great (high resolution) image left over.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Scrib

GoVols said:


> Megapixels are over-hyped in our bigger-is-better world. How many of us are going to, or even able to, print 24X36 photgraphic quality prints?


The ability to have large-format prints made is secondary to being able to fine-tune the framing of a subject by cropping a shot without impacting proper pixel density.


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## GoVols

Scrib said:


> Megapixels are over-hyped in our bigger-is-better world. How many of us are going to, or even able to, print 24X36 photgraphic quality prints?


The ability to have large-format prints made is secondary to being able to fine-tune the framing of a subject by cropping a shot without impacting proper pixel density.








[/quote]

True, but how many ordinary, recreational photo-taking people crop pictures in post production so severely that you need 10 MP? A 3MP camera can produce a photo quality 8x10, and most photogs don't do much, if any, post production.


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## Scrib

I must be abnormal - LOL!


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## skippershe

H2oSprayer said:


> Try Cameta Auctions on eBay


Thanks for the tip. I strolled over to the site at it looks like they are selling the camera with Tamron autofocus lens. Are they a good lens compared to the Nikon that the local camera shop would be selling with the camera? They have a good price compared to my local shop. The the fact that it comes with all of the "extras" for less $$ then my local shop and all of their positive feedback is also a +.

Edit: Here is a link to one of their auctions --> clicky
[/quote]

They also have what they call Factory Demos...Here is another example...
Cameta

I bought my camera used from my sister who was upgrading to the D80. Here is what I have into it so far pricewise:
Camera body w/2batteries $250.00
Nikon AF Nikkor DX 18-70mm lens, paid $269.38 for a USED one at The Used Camera Store. (This DX lens has the highest grade optics).
Tamron AF 70-300 Zoom Macro $100.00
Nikon Speedlight SB-600 flash $219.00
2 gig San Disk memory card from eBay $20.00

Without the flash, I am into in it just over $600.00. I went big on my portrait lens because I wanted to be able to take the best close ups possible. I think that Tamron is very comparable to the non DX Nikon lenses, especially for the price. I already had the Tamron from my Nikon film camera, so I saved money there.

Just take your time pricing and comparing...Amazon still has the D50's as well. I just checked there and they are high! A remanufactured D50 plus an 18-55mm AF-S DX Zoom Nikkor lens is $999.00! Yes, it has the high quality lens, but you could get two Tamron's for less someplace else.

Feel free to send me a PM if you have any other questions about this setup








Dawn


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## H2oSprayer

Dawn,

I haven't given much thought to the factory demos, but I see that they still come with a warranty and have the Nikon lenses. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## PDX_Doug

GoVols said:


> Megapixels are over-hyped in our bigger-is-better world. How many of us are going to, or even able to, print 24X36 photgraphic quality prints?


The ability to have large-format prints made is secondary to being able to fine-tune the framing of a subject by cropping a shot without impacting proper pixel density.








[/quote]

True, but how many ordinary, recreational photo-taking people crop pictures in post production so severely that you need 10 MP? A 3MP camera can produce a photo quality 8x10, and most photogs don't do much, if any, post production.
[/quote]
Most people may not, but many do.

With the advent of digital photography, this sort of post production editing is not only affordable, but very easy as well. It may, in fact, be one of the single biggest advantages to digital photography (along with money saved on film and lab processing). I think as the hobby and technology matures, more and more people will experiment with advanced editing techniques.

In any case, Erik was asking for advice on digital cameras. Your perspective on MP's is certainly valid and '







' of his consideration. As is the 'flip' side of the argument.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## matty1

not to get off track...but for any of the nice D-SLR cameras you are mentioning, don't forget to get a new hard drive for your PC..holy cow can those images get large...some of my RAW photos are 15-20 megs each from the DW's Rebel-XT, but like others have said you can really zoom in or crop. (Jpeg's in best mode are about 4-5 megs each)

I like the weight and feel of it, although the molded handgrip is a little slick.


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