# 1/2 Ton Trucks Just Don't Cut It!!



## fishingmarlin (Nov 27, 2005)

Hey everyone been a while since I have been on here. Been real busy with work and fishing so I don't spend as much time on here as I used to.

Back when I did post I was a true advocate of not pushing your tow weight. I have a K1500 Z-71 Chevy with a 21' Outback. My trailer is about 6200 with everything we have loaded and it might be a little heavier than that.

Anyways just dropped in my 2nd Transmission at 96,000 first was at 75,000. Now of course I do have to tow through the mountains and that definitely puts some wear and tear on your vehicle.

I thought I would be ok using my truck but now $3600 later I will no longer be towing the trailer this year and next year its time for a bigger truck. Funny thing is I have seen some 1/2 tons out there pulling some bigger rigs. I will tell you right now they will all be getting new trannys before long. Even if you have a new truck and do like I did expect to start putting in new tranny's around 35,000 miles.


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## Scrib (Jun 28, 2005)

Do you use OD at all, when you tow? Just curious. BTW - a cousin in Seattle went through 2 transmissions on his Dodge/Cummins 1-Ton.


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Sorry to hear about your trans problems that's a real hassle, not to mention the expense.

Knock on wood our yukon has 76k miles on it and the trans is holding up okay. I change the fluid pretty often, put in a larger cooler and switched from 3.42 to a 3.73 rear. Hopefully it'll hold for a while yet, but whatever, I'll deal with it as it comes.

Good luck truck shopping!!

Mike


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## fishingmarlin (Nov 27, 2005)

I have been told that I should not use OD when towing which I can now say driving a lot in 3rd which is drive for me does just as much damage. The truck manual states to just use Drive when going up steep hills.

With the Z-71 it has an extra large transmission cooler with that package.

I have taken the trailer to places about 2 hours away and since I got my 1st transmission I have been to Gatlinburg with it about 5 times which I know a lot of people have lost tranny's going through Jellico Mountains. Also take the boat out at least 4 times a month from spring to fall and 2 times a month through fall to spring. I am almost tempted to try and get a vehicle with a manual transmission the next time around.

Everything seems like a double edge sword like choosing 4wd or 2wd. I need 4wd for pulling the boat out of the water on steep wet ramps. However 4wd automatics are just prone to transmission problems.

I guess its true that you just have to pay to play.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

fishingmarlin,

I'm sorry to hear that you are having so many transmission problems. That said, I have to think there is more going on here than meets the eye. You just should not have those kinds of issues pulling that trailer. What is your differential gearing? Do you have a transmission temperature gauge? Perform regular maintainance?

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

I ditched my burb after 2 trannys. That tranny belongs in a car and maybe an s-10. The bigger tires don't help any either. I tried driving in D and that didn't help tried a tranny cooler but it would still heat up to much.

John


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## fishingmarlin (Nov 27, 2005)

I have never had a guage installed for the transmission but at this point I have thought about it. As for regular maintenance I had the original transmission flushed and checked on a regular basis along with all other checks.

I am not sure about the gear ratio its probably whatever is standard on a Z-71.

The weight on the trailer is probably about 5800-6000lbs at the most because we don't have a ton of stuff in there. It might be the terrain we have around her which is a lot of 2 lane curvy roads.

Someone else actually mentioned pulling off the transmission cooler that comes with the Z-71 and replacing it.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

I can only tell you something my son learned first hand. He had a new transmission put in his truck which included the cooler flushed out. 4 months later , the trans was toast. It was redone under warranty. At the time he was looking to put 'cool' looking guages on his A post so on went a trans guage. He asked me a few days later about the normal temp for a trans to run. He said his was at 300 most of the time. What was happening was they flushed the cooler but never realized it was partially clogged. We replaced the cooler and the trans now has 100,000 hard miles on it. Not towing but he likes to hear the exhaust if you know what I mean. Just a thought.

John


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

I'm on my third Chevy truck since I've been towing and I can guarantee you that you over heated that tranny.
You really need to get a guage installed if your gonna keep that truck.
You also need to invest in a good tranny cooler. The factory Z-71 package does NOT include a tranny cooler.
Your truck will have 3.73 gears in it which are not real great for towing with a 5.7 liter.
test drive a 2500HD with a 6.0 liter and 4.10 gears and you'll see that the two trucks are like night and day.


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## battalionchief3 (Jun 27, 2006)

The stupid thing is the 1500 series chevys have the same trans as my little s-10. I think its a 4L60E. I lost mine at 150K but never towed. My other suburban was a 1500 with the tow/haul switch and I didnt keep it long enough to kill it. Now I have a beast with the 4L80E ( like the ol' 400 turbo trans ) and its externally cooled and has a temp gague. MUCH better. I dont think anyone really makes vehicles last like they once did. I will say I did research on the 8.1L suburban with the 4L80E and it is told to be built right and heavy duty, I guess i will see. If it does ever burn up I would take it to a real trans shop and get the upgrades ( kevlar clutches and bands and higher stall on the converter ) They usually know how to improve performance.


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## fishingmarlin (Nov 27, 2005)

What I thought was a tranny cooler might be an oil cooler. Unfortunately I already had another tranny put in so upgrading at this point is not really a choice.

I am already looking into a good tranny cooler and an inline sending unit for a temp gauge. Going to install these in the next few weeks.

The first replacement tranny I think like you all said was junk and they did not do it correctly. The mechanic who put in my second one was very knowledgeable and even told me they probably did just enough on the rebuild to get the tranny off the lot. I can tell a big difference with this new transmission than with the one I had replaced prior. The shifting is a lot smoother and seems to be in better shape. My other transmission would always rev a little high between 2nd and 3rd. This one goes right into 3rd without reving high and then dropping.

I do have the B&M Shifter on my truck but stopped using it because I thought it might have killed my first transmission. Are they supposed to cause the shift pattern to be harder? Its like the vehicle wants to lurch forward more when I use it. It is more noticeable when I forgot it was on and did not have the trailer hooked up.


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## fishingmarlin (Nov 27, 2005)

When looking for a transmission cooler I have found there are regular coolers and radiator cooled transmission coolers. Honestly this just makes everything even more confusing on what I need. In front of my radiator I have another cooler about the same size which is an oil cooler I guess. Going to have to unplug hoses and figure out what the heck I have.


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Fishing Marlin,

Go to Google and type in Long tru-cool. They make a great trans cooler. Once you get it either by a pipe bender and bend the steel lines your self or go to Amoco to have them re-do some steel lines. Do not if you can help it put rubber lines. Especially if you cut the steel lines with a tubing cutter. Those sharp edges will cut through that rubber hose in weeks.


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

Wow...that sux.

(Don't even get me started on GM letting me down!!!!)

My Tahoe rear diff disentigrated 3 weeks out of warranty. Mechanic said he seen a lot of them, and towing didn't cause my failure. (FWIW)

I agree on the tranny cooler, and gauge. My TITAN has a tranny temp gauge. You can watch the temp rise quick when the truck is working hard! If you can use it in your truck, Synthetic tranny fluid might not hurt either. Good luck.

PS...I just bought a new transmission for my wifes GM car. (she tows nothing by the way) Tranny....gone. Hmmm. Is there a pattern here?


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Gee, maybe GM should put "Allison" trannies in all their vehicles


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

fishingmarlin said:


> Going to have to unplug hoses and figure out what the heck I have.


You shouldn't have to do that. Just follow the lines and see what they are connected to. For example, many vehicles have a small cooler for power steering. It's connected to the power steering pump and the steering box/rack via steel tubing. Same thing goes for transmission coolers. Most of them are cooled by a heat exchanger built into your vehicle's radiator. Whether a vehicle has a big enough trans cooler for the owner's purposes is another matter.

Bill


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

You know, it's funny....I've been driving for 40 years, and owned several cars, all different makes and models. I have no particular favorite, BTW. AND, I've only replaced one tranny in all those cars. And that just happened to be a Ford Granada.








Good luck, or what?

Mark


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## tripphammer (Oct 3, 2006)

In a former life (read that career) I used to work on transmissions. A basic principle that is not being addressed is that the transmission in your half-ton may be different than the transmission in what appears to be the same half-ton. For example Chevy and GMC do have subtle differences. An example is a stock transmission temperature gauge on some models of GMC when the "identical" does not (e.g. 2003 GMC crew cab 4wd, 6L 1500HD does, the Chevy does not). So do HD half-tons of GM. Part of the factoring as well in this is the engine, 5.3, 6 or 8.1. Simply saying that one must absolutely have a 3/4 ton or larger is not really looking at the issue with an unemotional, factual basis. And to castigate 4wd over 2wd isn't really being fair either.

Of the 300+ transmissions that I have worked on, only about 20 were truly mechanical defects. Most of the failures were man caused in one way or another. One of the most supect to me is how you service the transmission and maintain it. The second is how you use/abuse it given the way you personally drive and under what driving conditions. One of the most abusive is the stop-and-go driving of metropolitan areas. Another is acceleration and deceleration. We used to predict tansmission failures when we saw folks who were wearing their brakes pads down in less than twenty thousand miles. In 40 years of driving I have personally never had a transmission fail even though I have not alway treated them well. But here's some tips that suggest:

1. Check transmission fluid as often as you check your oil.
2. Never fall for the gimicky transmission "cleaning" services that you find at the places that change your oil. Completely replace the fluid every 30,000 miles or so and also drop the pan and change the filter. This will actually be cheaper than using one of those "miracle machines" (i.e. the old "Pay me now, or pay me later" concept). 
3. Watch for overheating. Watch for overheating. The best way is to have a transmission temperature gauge. But also when checking the transmission fluid, smell the dipstick. There is a definite burnt smell if you have overheated.
4. When addressing transmission issues look for a reputable company. I know this is hard to do, since everyone is trying to "fast-fix" everything to make a buck.
5. When pointing a finger at a particular make/model that you are unhappy with, remember that you have three fingers pointing back at yourself.

Also remember that the the salesman in a majority of a cases is not the person to believe when deciding on your TV. Most them are only out to make a fast sale and want to get rid of what is ever on their lot. Take your time, find someone that can help you if you are not one with the mechanical acumen. A used truck dealer friend of mine looked for six months before he found my latest TV. I just can't bring myself to buy an brand new vehicle. I try to let someone else pay the heavy depreciation. I do however make sure I get one that still has a manufacturers' warranty of some time left.

And the final and most important recommendation, take with only a grain of salt, all of us, including myself who think they their opinion is the only one. 
Take Care,
Tripp


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

TrippHammer said:


> In a former life (read that career) I used to work on transmissions. A basic principle that is not being addressed is that the transmission in your half-ton may be different than the transmission in what appears to be the same half-ton. For example Chevy and GMC do have subtle differences. An example is a stock transmission temperature gauge on some models of GMC when the "identical" does not (e.g. 2003 GMC crew cab 4wd, 6L 1500HD does, the Chevy does not). So do HD half-tons of GM. Part of the factoring as well in this is the engine, 5.3, 6 or 8.1. Simply saying that one must absolutely have a 3/4 ton or larger is not really looking at the issue with an unemotional, factual basis. And to castigate 4wd over 2wd isn't really being fair either.
> 
> Of the 300+ transmissions that I have worked on, only about 20 were truly mechanical defects. Most of the failures were man caused in one way or another. One of the most supect to me is how you service the transmission and maintain it. The second is how you use/abuse it given the way you personally drive and under what driving conditions. One of the most abusive is the stop-and-go driving of metropolitan areas. Another is acceleration and deceleration. We used to predict tansmission failures when we saw folks who were wearing their brakes pads down in less than twenty thousand miles. In 40 years of driving I have personally never had a transmission fail even though I have not alway treated them well. But here's some tips that suggest:
> 
> ...


*Good info Tripphammer!*


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## kmcfetters (May 7, 2005)

Yep---found that out---our 2500 tows much better and will never buy a 1/2 ton again...unless I am just hauling groceries


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

kmcfetters said:


> Yep---found that out---our 2500 tows much better and will never buy a 1/2 ton again...unless I am just hauling groceries


...per your sig, your not just hauling groceries.


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## fishingmarlin (Nov 27, 2005)

Heavy duty cooler installed this weekend!!! Just found a B&M Temp Gauge with an inline T for the sending unit. I figure that the temperature before it goes into the cooling unit will tell me enough as the one in the pan will do. From what I have read the temp is only a few degrees off so at least I will know if it is getting too hot.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

That should help a lot, fishingmarlin.








Now keep track of where the gauge normally sits, so you can know what is unusual.









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

fishingmarlin said:


> Heavy duty cooler installed this weekend!!! Just found a B&M Temp Gauge with an inline T for the sending unit. I figure that the temperature before it goes into the cooling unit will tell me enough as the one in the pan will do. From what I have read the temp is only a few degrees off so at least I will know if it is getting too hot.


*Your truck's tranny temp might be different than mine but I ussually see about 70 degrees above outside air temp. Towing is a whole different story, but mostly it sticks beteen 170-195 degrees, all depending on the terrain and city/highway driving. The torque converter tends to heat thinks up alot quicker in the stop & go traffic. Hope this info help out....*


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