# 12 Volt Charging



## charlesy (Jul 27, 2010)

I have a 2005 21 rs . I keep it plugged in to 30 watt shore power. When I turned on the lights today they were dim and the battery was dead.All the 120 volt stuff worked fine. How can I tell if the onboard 12 volt charger is working? Thanks for any help. Charles


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## Ridgway-Rangers (Apr 18, 2008)

you can simply put a volt meter on the battery to see what is up. A charging battery should be between 13.6 volt and 14.2 ish. Give or take. A battery not charging would be in the 12s or 11s.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

There are many things this could be...lets start with the easy ones.

1 - Did you check the water level in the battery? Is it full? If not, fill with distilled water.

2 - Check the fuses inside the Outback. Is the converters fuse still intact?

3 - Check the terminals around the battery. Attached tight? Clean connections?

4 - Check the junction box where the battery cable goes in....make sure all the cables are tight.

Let us know where you are after looking at these quick items.


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## KTMRacer (Jun 28, 2010)

Oregon_Camper said:


> There are many things this could be...lets start with the easy ones.
> 
> 1 - Did you check the water level in the battery? Is it full? If not, fill with distilled water.
> 
> ...


also make sure the circuit breaker to the converter isn't tripped. to comply with NEC requirements, they need to limit the number of breakers off the 30A main, so the converter is often on the same breaker as the other 120V non GFI outlets in the trailer. Plug to much stuff in and the breaker trips, especially since the converter can draw as much as 10+ amps if the battery is discharged and/or you have lots of 12V stuff running.


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

Check your 12 volt ground to the frame.

One way to test your ground is to check the voltage between the negative battery terminal and the frame. Just find a bare spot you can touch a probe to. If the connection is good, the voltage between the two should be zero. The worse the connection, the higher the voltage between the two will read because of the resistance caused by the bad connection.

On my 21RS the negative cable from the battery is attached directly to the frame just behind the battery. Rain/snow water running down the front of the trailer could be getting into that connection and causing it to corrode. If you suspect any issues, remove the ground from the trailer frame, clean both the ground lug and frame until the metal is shiny and put it back together. Once that is done, coat the lug and a half inch or so on the frame all the way around the lug to keep the water and road gunk out of it.

Another thing to check is the cables themselves. Not the cable lugs or battery terminals. You can get corrosion inside a battery cable. Look at the cable sheath for any areas that are bloated or of an irregular shape. This could be a pocket of corrosion. If you find one, replace the cable.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

thefulminator said:


> Check your 12 volt ground to the frame.
> 
> One way to test your ground is to check the voltage between the negative battery terminal and the frame. Just find a bare spot you can touch a probe to. If the connection is good, the voltage between the two should be zero. The worse the connection, the higher the voltage between the two will read because of the resistance caused by the bad connection.
> 
> ...


 This is one of the most common causes. I found this exact condition with my batteries.

Corrective action:

- Disconnect power to the TT.
- Disconnect battery leads.
- Remove the battery(s).
- Clean the battery terminals of any corrosion use a wire brush or "Indian Head"
- Inspect and clean the battery cable connectors use a wire brush.
- Follow the negative terminal to the trailer frame, remove it and clean the terminal and the mounting point on the frame.
- Follow the Poitive lead to the terminal block mounted on the frame. 
- Remove the Positive lead from the terminal block. clean and remove corrosion from the terminal post and hardware.
- Lift and clean the remaining leads at the terminal block, clean and reland them.
- Available from most automotive stores is a type of spray parrafin. It comes in a bottle much like Lock Deicer.
- After the leads are landed back at the terminal block, lightly coat them with the parrafin spray. This will keep the moisture off of the terminals and inhibit corrosion.
- Ensure your battery leads are separated, insulated. 
- Restore power to your TT.
- With a multimeter on a 100 Volt DC range check positive meter lead to positive battery cable, Negative lead to negative cable.
- You should see DC voltage on these terminals.
- If your batteries have inspectable cells, carefully, with rubber gloves and eye protection pop the tops off the battery and check the water level in the battery. If the water (electrolyte) level is low you may be able to have the battery service or you may opt to replace the battery. DO NOT ADD TAP WATER to a Lead Acid battery. 
- If you have a SLAB (Sealed Lead Acid Battery) check the voltage of the battery with a meter. you should see approximately 12VDC. If so attempt to re-use the battery(s).
- Reinstall your battery(s) paying special attention to the polarity of the terminals and the leads your are connecting. 
- With the battery(s) reinstalled check the voltage at the battery terminals, power to the camper on, breakers closed, and your should see a charging voltage of about 13VDC +/- about .75 volts.
- Allow several hours for the battery to charge, overnight would be good. 
- Perform a check of the batteries by measuring the charging voltage, and voltage on the battery with power removed (no AC voltage to the converter.)
- If Voltages are good, coat the battery terminals with the parafin spray.
- Periodically check the batteries for voltage and charge. 
- Remove the battery from the camper during winter storage and store in a cool dry place and or place on a trickle charger to maintain the battery. Do not place battery directly on concrete or stone floors. It is better to keep them up on a slab of wood or other non-conductive, non corrosive material.

Hope that helps,

Eric


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## charlesy (Jul 27, 2010)

egregg57 said:


> Check your 12 volt ground to the frame.
> 
> One way to test your ground is to check the voltage between the negative battery terminal and the frame. Just find a bare spot you can touch a probe to. If the connection is good, the voltage between the two should be zero. The worse the connection, the higher the voltage between the two will read because of the resistance caused by the bad connection.
> 
> ...


 This is one of the most common causes. I found this exact condition with my batteries.

Corrective action:

- Disconnect power to the TT.
- Disconnect battery leads.
- Remove the battery(s).
- Clean the battery terminals of any corrosion use a wire brush or "Indian Head"
- Inspect and clean the battery cable connectors use a wire brush.
- Follow the negative terminal to the trailer frame, remove it and clean the terminal and the mounting point on the frame.
- Follow the Poitive lead to the terminal block mounted on the frame. 
- Remove the Positive lead from the terminal block. clean and remove corrosion from the terminal post and hardware.
- Lift and clean the remaining leads at the terminal block, clean and reland them.
- Available from most automotive stores is a type of spray parrafin. It comes in a bottle much like Lock Deicer.
- After the leads are landed back at the terminal block, lightly coat them with the parrafin spray. This will keep the moisture off of the terminals and inhibit corrosion.
- Ensure your battery leads are separated, insulated. 
- Restore power to your TT.
- With a multimeter on a 100 Volt DC range check positive meter lead to positive battery cable, Negative lead to negative cable.
- You should see DC voltage on these terminals.
- If your batteries have inspectable cells, carefully, with rubber gloves and eye protection pop the tops off the battery and check the water level in the battery. If the water (electrolyte) level is low you may be able to have the battery service or you may opt to replace the battery. DO NOT ADD TAP WATER to a Lead Acid battery. 
- If you have a SLAB (Sealed Lead Acid Battery) check the voltage of the battery with a meter. you should see approximately 12VDC. If so attempt to re-use the battery(s).
- Reinstall your battery(s) paying special attention to the polarity of the terminals and the leads your are connecting. 
- With the battery(s) reinstalled check the voltage at the battery terminals, power to the camper on, breakers closed, and your should see a charging voltage of about 13VDC +/- about .75 volts.
- Allow several hours for the battery to charge, overnight would be good. 
- Perform a check of the batteries by measuring the charging voltage, and voltage on the battery with power removed (no AC voltage to the converter.)
- If Voltages are good, coat the battery terminals with the parafin spray.
- Periodically check the batteries for voltage and charge. 
- Remove the battery from the camper during winter storage and store in a cool dry place and or place on a trickle charger to maintain the battery. Do not place battery directly on concrete or stone floors. It is better to keep them up on a slab of wood or other non-conductive, non corrosive material.

Hope that helps,

Eric
[/quote]


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## charlesy (Jul 27, 2010)

Thanks for all the help guys. I am gonna try to troubleshoot this weekend . I will let you know what I find. Charles


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

Cleaning any of the electrical connections works really well using a dremel with a wire brush or one of their abrasive buffs. You can get into really small places and grind off the corrosion leaving a nice smooth finish with them. I just restored a 1940's era Craftsman table saw using them to remove rust and they do an incredible job.


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## Bob2ride (Jun 24, 2005)

charlesy said:


> Check your 12 volt ground to the frame.
> 
> One way to test your ground is to check the voltage between the negative battery terminal and the frame. Just find a bare spot you can touch a probe to. If the connection is good, the voltage between the two should be zero. The worse the connection, the higher the voltage between the two will read because of the resistance caused by the bad connection.
> 
> ...


......

Guys;
I've been following this thread since I have been having the exact problem with hte exact trailer. I have checked the connections to the terminal block and ground. All good. The voltage at the battery is <12 volts connected to shore power or not. THe fuses are good inside. I assume this is the 40 amp fuses on the fuse block. So now I suspect the charging sustem some where. I have not een able to locate the manual. How do I trouble shoot or access the charger or what ever circuit is used for charging?

Thanks

Bob


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## Jewellfamily (Sep 25, 2010)

Could it be something as simple as the battery is no good (open cell or something). I believe someone like NAPA (parts house) can test a battery similar to having an alternator tested. Might be worth a shot as something to eliminate anyways.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Check the charger output at the converter. Pulling the cover you should see the heavy white and black wires that go out to the battery. If you have 13.2 to 13.6 vdc then you have a dirty connection between the converter and the battery.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Jewellfamily said:


> Could it be something as simple as the battery is no good (open cell or something). I believe someone like NAPA (parts house) can test a battery similar to having an alternator tested. Might be worth a shot as something to eliminate anyways.


You can check this yourself if you get a hydrommeter. They only cost a few dollars.


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## Jewellfamily (Sep 25, 2010)

I was thinking more along the lines of a load test than a hydrometer test. Wasn't sure if the hydrometer test would tell you the same thing or not.


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## dirtengineer (Jun 6, 2010)

A hydrometer will show if one cell is very different than the others. Last year I had one shorted cell on one of my batteries. Batteries would NEVER get above 12 volts. Hydrometer showed the culprit.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

dirtengineer said:


> A hydrometer will show if one cell is very different than the others. Last year I had one shorted cell on one of my batteries. Batteries would NEVER get above 12 volts. Hydrometer showed the culprit.


This was the objective of my comment, full load testing is not really what you want to do to a deep cycle battery, as that is not its designed operational mode like it is for a starting battery, load testing of that type of battery is fine but a hydrometer will work on those also.


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## Jewellfamily (Sep 25, 2010)

That's good to know about the deep cycle battery. I wouldn't have thought it would behave differently than a standard battery.


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## CdnOutback (Apr 16, 2010)

in my experience, you should always do the hydrometer test first because it will tell you if the battery is just flat out discharged. If you take the battery in to a parts store they will do a load test on your discharged battery and it will always fail and they will be most happy to sell you a new one, even if you don't really need it. If the hydrometer reads low in all your cells just charge it until the hydrometer reading comes up.


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

I used to work in a battery shop and can tell you from experience that a hydrometer test will not always give you the full story.

The plates in each cell of a battery are made from a grid of rigid lead alloy. The grid is filled with a lead paste. The plates are separated with a fabric between them. Under repeated loading the plate will expand, contract and flex slightly. As this happens, amounts of the lead paste will eventually fall out of the holes in the plates. Driving on rough roads can help this process along. As this material builds up in the bottom of the battery, it can eventually touch the bottoms of adjacent plates and cause a short between them. The short may not always be present. When the plates are relaxed, all could be fine and the battery will charge like normal giving a hydrometer reading like any other cell. When a high load is applied, the plates can flex or warp, contact the crud at the bottom of the battery and you have an instant cell short. The output voltage drops to 10 volts and you can't run anything off of it. This is most common in automotive batteries where engaging the starter provides sufficient load to cause the short. It can also happen in deep cycle batteries.

The point is that you can have a battery that shows normal with a hydrometer test but fails when it is under load. When you are at the battery shop getting the load test the bad cell will bubble like it is boiling when it shorts.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

I guess I will have to disagree with load (high amp draw) testing a deep cycle battery as they should never be loaded like a starting battery in normal use. If the crud is not to the point of shorting the cell to inhibit charging then it is not deep enough to inhibit normal use. Load test a deep cycle battery like you would a starting battery could lead to early replacement of the battery due to a false failed condition or damage to the plates which are much thicker then starting battery plates and if warped by the current flow may not return to its normal shape. I take part in lots of battery testing for UPS systems as part of work and we never high current draw load test the batteries.


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## dirtengineer (Jun 6, 2010)

Charlesy - any updates?


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## charlesy (Jul 27, 2010)

dirtengineer said:


> Charlesy - any updates?


I cleaned all of the connections on the battery and charged it . It took a charge and the 12 volt worked well ,however a couple of days later the lights were dim again . I am gonna get a meter so I can troubleshoot it better.


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## charlesy (Jul 27, 2010)

charlesy said:


> Charlesy - any updates?


I cleaned all of the connections on the battery and charged it . It took a charge and the 12 volt worked well ,however a couple of days later the lights were dim again . I am gonna get a meter so I can troubleshoot it better.
[/quote]
I took the on-board charger out and tested it by plugging it into an extension cord, with a voltmeter and it puts out 13.6 volts . I also checked the breaker and it has 124 volts coming out of it . But when I put the charger back in it still does not put out any voltage. The charger works fine when I bench tested it but not when it is installed. I just cant figure out why. Any ideas ?


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## hautevue (Mar 8, 2009)

Sounds like a loose wire in the install area or inside the charger or a tripped or non-functioning main breaker.

If the charger puts out voltage, and yet nothing gets to the distribution panel (usually located next to the charger), check for a tripped main breaker in the dist. panel. Flip it off, and then on. Use your magic volt meter to see if the panel gets electricity. If not, there's the problem.


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## Chris 312BH (Jan 31, 2011)

I had a similar issue in my old trailer and it turned out to be the GFCI in the bathroom was tripped. Must have been wired or on the same circuit as teh genset, at least that's what I assume.


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## charlesy (Jul 27, 2010)

Chris 312BH said:


> I had a similar issue in my old trailer and it turned out to be the GFCI in the bathroom was tripped. Must have been wired or on the same circuit as teh genset, at least that's what I assume.


Thanks I will try that tomorrow . I have checked and eliminated the breaker , power into and exiting the breaker is 124 volts , the battery holds a charge as long as it is disconnected.It would be great if it were something that simple.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

I am going to go with loose or corroded wire. Check the neutral buss behind the converter and the ground on the frame near the converter as it is often over looked.


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## charlesy (Jul 27, 2010)

CamperAndy said:


> I am going to go with loose or corroded wire. Check the neutral buss behind the converter and the ground on the frame near the converter as it is often over looked.


Thanks Andy, I am gonna check this morning.


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## charlesy (Jul 27, 2010)

I puuled the converter back out and tried it again on a bench . It only makes 6 volts . I think that the converter is going out . Has anyone changed or upgraded their converters . If so which one do you recommend . I see some on ebay that are much cheaper than the dealers $230.00. Thanks for any help . Chuck.


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## hautevue (Mar 8, 2009)

Bingo! 6 volts output and you've identified the problem! The converter may have a loose wire or a corroded connection inside or it's truly going around the bend.

Given that you probably will replace it, I'd just go ahead and open it up and see what you find. Check everything for looseness--you'd be surprised what loosens in a TT that bounces around. Look for crud on places where wires are under screw-downs. Check for any loose wire nuts that connect wires. Look at wire splices where two wires are put together with a sleeve and then the sleeve heated to "lock" it together.

Wiggle the components on the circuit board--a loose widget can screw things up.

Maybe you'll hit pay dirt and fix it, saving you a couple of bills.

Good luck!


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