# Hubbie Doesn't Believe Me!



## Goofyoutbacker28rls (Jan 5, 2006)

Hello everyone.....we want to trade our 28 Outbacker BHS to a 31 RQS. After hearing great comments, we are willing to use our vacation to Lakeshore RV to pick'er out.

However, I have been shopping for a Suburban that will accomodate the weight/length. (ORDEAL ORDEAL)--although I have my eye out for 8.1 liter V8 5.10 rear axle.....

Hubbie states....we are going from 6900# with the 28footer (no probs, honestly) to a 7100. Our Tahoe is 5.3 with 3.73 liter (with towing) that can accomodate #7900 pounds

After reading your comments, it is the short wheelbase that is the problem. 
But he tells me we are talking #200 pounds more, and 3 feet longer....

So be honest, give me the comments







to tell him that a Suburban will better accomodate the length of this trailer. We will not buy a truck, so that's out of the question.

Although I don't want the monstrous 8.1 liter (4WD) I could settle for the V8 4.10 2WD which has a max weight of #9,900


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

1) 31RQS....GREAT looking trailer (on my wish list)

2) Are you asking us to give input on the Tahoe? Is so, I for one would NOT tow a 31RQS with it...wheel base to short...not enough weight to stop that trailer.

3) Now...the Suburban you're looking at will suit this trailer perfect.

4) Look like a double purchase is in order...


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## Goofyoutbacker28rls (Jan 5, 2006)

Oregon_Camper said:


> 1) 31RQS....GREAT looking trailer (on my wish list)
> 
> 2) Are you asking us to give input on the Tahoe? Is so, I for one would NOT tow a 31RQS with it...wheel base to short...not enough weight to stop that trailer.
> 
> ...


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Tahoe? No.

Suburban? Yes.

Mark


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## Goofyoutbacker28rls (Jan 5, 2006)

mswalt said:


> Tahoe?Â No.
> 
> Suburban?Â Yes.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mark..... What kind of gas mileage do you get with your Suburban pulling the trailer? ....the one I am looking at gets 12.5 mpg on the road


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

I towed the 25RSS with a Tahoe with similar specs.
It did a fairly decent job...but I felt MUCH more comfortable with a full size truck.

Would I pull the 31 with a Tahoe? No way!


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

TAHOE -- No way

Suburban -- Totally


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## drobe5150 (Jan 21, 2005)

after reading about that horrific accident in minnesota involving the tahoe towing a 30ft plus tt, i would definitley say NO WAY.
for the safety of your family and others, go with the burb or an excursion.

jmho
darrel


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## Goofyoutbacker28rls (Jan 5, 2006)

Thanks to all of you...I didn't hear about that accident but I will show hubbie all these comments....








In Florida, it's hard finding a Suburban and/or to fit my towing needs....from the dealer.....I don't think they want to stock these....anymore...


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

RV Towing Tips - Wheelbase

click

Regards


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## Goofyoutbacker28rls (Jan 5, 2006)

Ok I read some pointers from the RV Towing Tips and he noted this statement

"Another example of this would be in comparing a 2003 Chevy Tahoe to a 2003 Chevy Suburban. The wheelbase of the two are different, but their wheelbase to rear overhang ratios are almost identical. Therefore, both vehicles should be able to handle the same trailer with similar results as far as length is concerned."

The wheelbase of the Tahoe is 116.0 and the Suburban is 130.0 ...also according to this article, eithier one wouldn't meet the requirements for the 31 footer?

What vehicle has a 154" wheelbase that would hold 7 people?

I think I would at least feel safer with the 2500 V8 Burb with Allision Transmission I am looking at.....

Don't worry, we won't be buying the 31 RQS with the Tahoe pulling it....Wife will hold her ground!!!







He said we may just have to keep our 2004 28foot Outback BHS.....which is a nice trailer, but we do like the 31 RQS.....


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

No way in he** I would tow a 31RQS with a Tahoe!

I don't buy this one either:

"Another example of this would be in comparing a 2003 Chevy Tahoe to a 2003 Chevy Suburban. The wheelbase of the two are different, but their wheelbase to rear overhang ratios are almost identical. Therefore, both vehicles should be able to handle the same trailer with similar results as far as length is concerned."

Wheelbase DOES count! Yes, overhang has an effect, but it is not the only contributing factor. The distance from the hitch to the TV's front wheels has a significant effect on stability as well. And the way you get that is with wheelbase. Sorry, but this 'experts' advice is just plain wrong.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## 7heaven (Jun 4, 2005)

Another option would be to upgrade the TV this year and the TT in another year or two. Good to hear you won't be going bigger on the TT with your Tahoe!


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## nonny (Aug 14, 2005)

I tried to do a search for the fatal accident thread acouple of days ago with no luck. I went to the bottom of the page and clicked on past 2 weeks and found it. The title contains something about fatal TT accident. It's worth reading. Also, click on the link for a written report and don't forget to watch the VIDEO. It's frightening. Maybe your husband will change his mind after seeing that. Good luck!


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## Goofyoutbacker28rls (Jan 5, 2006)

I read the article and saw the video on that horrific accident......it's a reminder for all of us. Nah, he's not dead set for driving the Tahoe with the 31 footer, but I needed to set him straight that the 14" difference in wheelbase does make a difference.... and how do I know that????

Thanks to this wonderful forum.....I learn a lot from this site.....









Thanks for all the comments......

action


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

> The wheelbase of the two are different, but their wheelbase to rear overhang ratios are almost identical. Therefore, both vehicles should be able to handle the same trailer with similar results as far as length is concerned


."

Would that mean you could tow it with a Buick Rendevous, too, since the rear wheels are no farther from the rear of the Buick than say, the Suburban?

I'm with Doug. No way would I listen to that "expert's" advice.

Mark


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

To be honest, I wouldn't even be looking at 1/2 ton 'burbs either. A 3/4 ton truck is the minimum I would look at for this trailer. Remeber, when figuring how much trailer you vehicle can tow, use the GVWR of the TT, not the dry wgt.

Tim


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

I have towed our 31RQS with a Chevy Silverado 1500 LS ext. cab 4x4 with a 5.3L V-8. The performance was not good. a bit of inherent sway some struggling on hills and really just not enough heft to the truck. The was just enough power to do the job but a very slim safety magin.

From my experience in towing with that truck (overloaded, my stupidity) I would HIGHLY recommend NOT towing a 31RQS with a 1/2 ton vehicle. Can you pull it? Probably. Will it get you from point A to point B over moderate terrain? yes. Do some people tow in an overloaded state? Yes. Is it safe? NO. Is it worth the risk? NO. The decision to switch, expeditiously, came when I rounded a corner at 35mph with the Chevy 1500 on a wet road in Connecticut and my Sydney decided to do her own thing and try to continue straight. When we stopped my rig formed a perfect "L". L for LOSER!









My next two vehicles were a Chevy Silverado 2500HD and now a Ford F-250 XLT 6.8L Triton V-10. There is no comparison between the 1500 and the 2500 or F-250. The latter two having ample power, no sway and a steady predictable tow.

The 31RQS is a beautiful TT. My wife and I love it as well as my step-son and the friend or friends he brings along. I am certainly not the Weight Police as my knowledge in the varying abilities of many vehicles is quite limited. But what I have found is that in regards to towing:

1. A dealer or dealership most times will tell you what you want to hear or will say nothing at all.

2. The 85% rule of thumb for weight that is commonly used in calculating safe tow ratings may seem excessive but is not.

3. GVWR and GCWRs are, in some circumstances, rough numbers and are usually found to be in the favor of the vehicle. ie: TT UVWR tends to be higher than listed, TV GVWR's rapidly shrink after you add the passengers and thier things etc. which effect max Tow Capacity and GCWR, performance etc.

I suppose I could go on. Much of all of this has been covered repeatedly to the benefit of the novice and to the experienced as well. Negative experiences re-enforce the warnings.

The advice from the senior members you recieve here is pretty sound, mileage tested, experience driven, words of wisdom. Helpful hints for Hopeful Heroes.

Just my 2 cents worth.









Eric


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## hurricaneplumber (Apr 12, 2004)

Goofyoutbacker28rls said:


> The wheelbase of the Tahoe is 116.0 and the Suburban is 130.0 ...also according to this article, eithier one wouldn't meet the requirements for the 31 footer?
> 
> What vehicle has a 154" wheelbase that would hold 7 people?
> [snapback]120301[/snapback]​


Ford Excursion seats 9 and is 138" wheelbase.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

egregg57 said:


> I have towed our 31RQS with a Chevy Silverado 1500 LS ext. cab 4x4 with a 5.3L V-8. The performance was not good. a bit of inherent sway some struggling on hills and really just not enough heft to the truck. The was just enough power to do the job but a very slim safety magin.
> 
> From my experience in towing with that truck (overloaded, my stupidity) I would HIGHLY recommend NOT towing a 31RQS with a 1/2 ton vehicle. Can you pull it? Probably. Will it get you from point A to point B over moderate terrain? yes. Do some people tow in an overloaded state? Yes. Is it safe? NO. Is it worth the risk? NO. The decision to switch, expeditiously, came when I rounded a corner at 35mph with the Chevy 1500 on a wet road in Connecticut and my Sydney decided to do her own thing and try to continue straight. When we stopped my rig formed a perfect "L". L for LOSER!
> 
> ...


This was well said


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## Grunt0311 (Aug 23, 2005)

Your question about what vehicle has long wheelbase and will carry 7 passengers kind of scares me. Do you have 7 passengers all the time? If so, I would say that your current Tahoe is VERY overloaded. Remember, you need to account for the weight in the vehicle, as well as the TT. And even if they are young, you also have the added weight of the carseats.

I really think that you need to look at a 3/4 ton vehicle, minimum. Maybe a 3/4 van or an Excursion would be ideal. They don't make them anymore, but there are lots of used ones out there and would suit you great.

Good luck!
Bill


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

> QUOTE(Goofyoutbacker28rls @ Jun 10 2006, 10:37 PM)
> The wheelbase of the Tahoe is 116.0 and the Suburban is 130.0 ...also according to this article, eithier one wouldn't meet the requirements for the 31 footer?
> 
> What vehicle has a 154" wheelbase that would hold 7 people?


I'm no expert by any means, but I believe the rule of thumb changes once you reach a certain number of inches in the wheelbase, ie., Burbs, Excursions, Yukons, etc.

Mark


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

hurricaneplumber said:


> Goofyoutbacker28rls said:
> 
> 
> > The wheelbase of the Tahoe is 116.0 and the Suburban is 130.0 ...also according to this article, eithier one wouldn't meet the requirements for the 31 footer?
> ...


and if you take out the third row seat, and fold down the second row, you can get a pickup game of volleyball going.......

Just kidding.

The Excursion is a fantasitic tow vehicle, as long as you have the right engine and hitch setup. I'm still tweaking my hitch, but the motor will pull all day long.

Any of the full size 3/4 ton SUV's or Pickups will work tow that beast. Good luck in your convincing.

Tim


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## dliles6254 (Jun 6, 2006)

nonny said:


> I tried to do a search for the fatal accident thread acouple of days ago with no luck. I went to the bottom of the page and clicked on past 2 weeks and found it. The title contains something about fatal TT accident. It's worth reading. Also, click on the link for a written report and don't forget to watch the VIDEO. It's frightening. Maybe your husband will change his mind after seeing that. Good luck!
> [snapback]120410[/snapback]​


I can't find any info on the fatal TT accident or video. could some one lead me to it?

How do you like the way you Tahoe pulls the trailer that you have now?


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Yes, 3/4 ton Suburban or Excursion. Period.









The small block engines in 1/2 tons are just not going to have the torque this monster requires. 7,100 is best case fantasy EMPTY weight. I guesstimate mine is closer to 8,000. Remember that this thing may be only 300 pounds heavier and 3 feet longer on paper, but for one thing you have probably double+ the storage area and you'll find stuff to put in there.

That's my 2 cents.

BTW I get around 10mpg with no trailer and around 8 with it.











hurricaneplumber said:


> Goofyoutbacker28rls said:
> 
> 
> > The wheelbase of the Tahoe is 116.0 and the Suburban is 130.0 ...also according to this article, eithier one wouldn't meet the requirements for the 31 footer?
> ...


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## Above & Beyond (May 20, 2006)

Go with a 3/4 ton van plenty of seating & safe to tow with & get the big engine or diesel.


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## Goofyoutbacker28rls (Jan 5, 2006)

> Do you have 7 passengers all the time? If so, I would say that your current Tahoe is VERY overloaded?


Our trip last year was 5 people (2-adults- 3 children) and the extra weight of a dachshund








All kiddin aside...I want to get that 31RQS and we are planning on taking 3 adults, 1 infant, and 3 children ( and possibly 3 small dogs)....that's why I am looking for a bigger vehicle...
Was our Tahoe loaded down? Yah, probably after reading all these forums, I would think a lot of you would shutter.










> Ford Excursion seats 9 and is 138" wheelbase.


 Whew...with a V10...no thank you.







but really....I am a chevy kind of gal...... I like ONSTAR










> I would HIGHLY recommend NOT towing a 31RQS with a 1/2 ton vehicle


Well you answered my next question...went to the car dealer...looked at a 2004 YUKON XL 2500 V8 6.0 liter with 3.73 (7900 capacity)....tried to sell me a new Denali XL 1500 V8 6.0 L 3.73 rear axle (same towing capacity...so even with that 3/4 ton, (2004) I don't think it meets the safety margin of the 31 RQS I want to get....(although again, I did pull my 28 BHS with no probs with a 1500. 5.3. V8 engine... so you answered my next question....don't bother getting the 1500 2007 BURB....won't work.....


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## 7heaven (Jun 4, 2005)

Mine seats 12, has V10 and 138 inch wheelbase. Room to grow...


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Goofyoutbacker28rls said:


> Well you answered my next question...went to the car dealer...looked at a 2004 YUKON XL 2500 V8 6.0 liter with 3.73 (7900 capacity)....tried to sell me a new Denali XL 1500 V8 6.0 L 3.73 rear axle (same towing capacity...so even with that 3/4 ton, (2004)


According to GM's web site, the Denali only comes with 6.2L engine and 3.42 gears. Steer clear of salesmen that don't know their products but will try to sell you one on technical points anyway. Or maybe all the numbers are jumbled in your memory.









That motor's got lots of torque, so I suspect the low towing capacity compared to previous models is the gearing. Might be a nice vehicle if you included a gear change as part of the deal.

If you're looking used I'd find a 2500 with a big block... up to 12,000 pound towing capacity. If you can handle the gas mileage it's always better to have more TV than you need rather than pushing the limits. www.autotrader.com may be helpful. I had to drive a bit to get mine, but it was well worth it to get what I wanted.

Also, previously one difference between 1500 and 2500 was the 4L60E vs. 4L80E transmissions - totally different in their heavy-duty-ness. Someone else can confirm, but I think they're using all HD trannies now (2007) even on the 1/2 tons.


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## Goofyoutbacker28rls (Jan 5, 2006)

> 6.2L engine and 3.42 gears. Steer clear of salesmen that don't know their products but will try to sell you one on technical points anyway. Or maybe all the numbers are jumbled in your memory.


Yes, those numbers you stated are correct....being a woman...jumbled but close enough is fine with me.......









We always bought new....but....."we" want our cake and eat it too....If I can tow that baby without going 3/4 8.1 liter....it would make us ver happy (in zeee pocketbook when gas was $1.99 I wouldn't of cared about that eithier.....but at $2.80......and expected to go higher ...........)That's why he was willing to go with the 6000 V8...( I know small difference between 5.3 liter and 6.0...but if it works it works...)

Personally I wish I can buy the 3/4 ton 8.1 liter 4.10 axle just for the trailer, but 90% of the time, it will be used for work/toting kids...

Ultimately we should buy a "truck" like a 2500 ram.....hubbie would LOVE that...but we are not retired yet..and we need room for "kid toting"

What really makes me frustrated is that these dealers don't have suburbans with the 4.10 rear axle......can't they just order 1 or 2 of these for people like us who need the towing capacity?....I mean, I see a lot of towing out there, not one dealer has a BURB/YUKON with the 4.10 rear axle.....although I suppose the % of people towing a 31 foot trailer or over #8000 pounds is low.........



> 1. A dealer or dealership most times will tell you what you want to hear or will say nothing at all.
> 
> 
> > AGREE AGREE and it's not right.....they REALLY don't like when I come in there bringing in all my numbers (towing capacity, black book, retail price, etc)..when I play "dumb" you will get these guys calling back the next day.....I have found with my research in hand.....not ONE calls back to see if we can "make the deal".....
> > interesting the last few weeks......these guys make A LOT of money off of us on both ends...(trade/ vehicle)......ahhhhhhhh that's another "around the campfire discussion".....Really, my Tahoe has been taken care of, and they only want to give me less than "fair" condition price......according to black book....one of the guys showed me .....so last night, he says he averages....ahhhhhhhhhhhh...yah....................right...less than Fair...is lots of dings/accidents, etc......so these guys are not being "fair" to the consumer....


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## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

The only way you would be able to use the 1500 series is if you got the new performance package available in the 06/07 years. I know it is available in the 1500 pickup not sure of the other vehilces. It replaces the 5.3L with a 6.0L with 345HP and puts a 4.10 rear in the package.. puts capacity at 10,300. I am negotiating with a local dealer now to replace my 05 with an 06 with this package.


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## Goofyoutbacker28rls (Jan 5, 2006)

> 1500 pickup not sure of the other vehilces. It replaces the 5.3L with a 6.0L with 345HP and puts a 4.10 rear in the package


Only on the 3.4 ton.....Can't find those on the lot....one can special order....and then I ask myself...if I special order...will they "make a deal?" probably not very much...







Let me know how you come out...I assume you are trying to negotiate for a new truck......and as it stands...In Florida...the 2006's are out the door already......so if anyone out there in Florida spots a 2006 3/4 ton....let me know







(it's like winning the lottery)

Suburban half-ton (2WD) 7,100 3.73 
8,100 4.10 
Suburban half-ton (4x4) 7,000 3.73 
8,000 4.10

Vortec 6000 V8 (Automatic) 
MODEL Max. Trailer Weight (lbs.)1 Required Axle Ratio

Suburban three-quarter-ton (2WD) 7,700 3.73 
9,700 4.10 
Suburban three-quarter-ton (4x4) 7,500 3.73 
9,500 4.10


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Goofyoutbacker28rls said:


> > 1500 pickup not sure of the other vehilces. It replaces the 5.3L with a 6.0L with 345HP and puts a 4.10 rear in the package
> 
> 
> Only on the 3.4 ton.....Can't find those on the lot....one can special order....and then I ask myself...if I special order...will they "make a deal?" probably not very much...
> ...


Don't know about the recent years, but I know starting in 2000 the 3/4 ton with big block and 4.10 was rated at 12,000 pounds. If you're looking for used vehicles and need that kind of TV capacity...

Like I said I found www.autotrader.com helpful if you've got some time to hunt. I personally would drive a few hours to get the vehicle I wanted given we're talking about a very specific not-so-common configuration.

Special ordering doesn't necessarily change anything - it all depends on the dealer. I can say from extensive personal experience that some dealers will look at that kind of deal as an "easy" sale. You come in knowing what you want - they make a few bucks for just pushing some paperwork. Others don't even want a deal if it's not at certain margins unless the vehicle's been sitting around a while. You just have to be prepared to visit 4, 5, 6 dealers to find the deal you want.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

I should add that dealers also look at every sale as an opportunity to make easy money on future service/warranty work, so don't assume they won't be interested in something.


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## Goofyoutbacker28rls (Jan 5, 2006)

Well I will give it a try....I have travelled many miles so far looking at various vehicles....but I will try calling my former dealer (90 miles away) and see if they can special order "with a deal".....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Your're right....easy "deal" just for pushing some papers...I don't think these new car dealers "care" what happens after the dotted line is signed....I can tell you after I told the GMC dealer yesterday, I would be looking at the Suburban models...I was snuffed and "have a nice day" smile..


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

I won't talk about pricing that the dealers do, as I sell trucks, but as for stocking trucks with 4.10 ratios...look at it this way. The dealer pays for the truck in cash or the finance it (floor plan) and wait to sell it, if you are selling 30 Suburban 1500's with 5.3 engine & 3.73 rears to every 1 Suburban 2500 what would you stock?? The dealer is committing to a $50,000 truck till it is sold and the quicker they sell it the quicker they see the profit.

We don't stock any 2500 Suburbans but Silverado 2500 crew cabs with Duramax diesels......we keep!!!!

Gary


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## Nickens (Oct 6, 2005)

When we learned our 1/2 SUV was likely to light for the 28RSS, we shopped for 3/4 ton SUVs. They generally have only 2000 payload, less A/C, less 3rd row seat, less fuel, less passengers, less etc.

Now take 800 lbs off for the tongue weight and you are about at the limit of the TV's axle ratings. You be under the GCVWR, but you still have to observe the TV's limits.

Don't forget that the Outback you get will be 300-600 lbs heavier than what the brochure says...

A 1/2 with a 9k tow rating with a 28+ is still a light-weight: get the 1-ton van or CrewCab. Ford's E350 Chateau Van seats 7 and has tons of capacity. A limo maker can stretch a CrewCab into an 3-row ride for about $10K, $15K with moonroofs and glitz... That's what I'm going to do in 08 with CrewCab Shortbed!


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