# Chasing A Leak



## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

We have a leak in our 2007 Keystone Outback Sydney fiver. It's build date is was Dec 2006 and we purchased it new in April 2007. 
As long as we have owned it, we have noticed that water will collect in the pin box area on the right side after heavy rains. I'm talking about the fiberglass/plastic area under the bedroom area that the pin box petruds from. However, there has never been any sign of water inside the fiver so we never pursured the issue while the unit was under warranty. 
Since that time, swelling of the wood valance that goes over the bed has occured (this is a non bedroom slide unit). Upon investigation, we discovered the valance was getting wet via the screw that holds it in place. That screw is fastened through the valance and into the right side wall. That told us that water must be getting inside the wall and traveling down to the pin box area. In the process, the water hits the screw, travels down the screw and the valance soaks up the water. 
The clearane lights have already been removed and resealed underneath AND around them by me. We took the unit to the selling dealer in JAX, FL. They did a visual inspection of the roof and right side window. Everything looked good. They also performed a Seal Tech test. Nothing showed up. So they removed the vinyl insert molding that covers the screws that hold the roof onto the sidewalls. One screw was installed at an angle and was rusty. The tech removed it, added sealant, and reinstalled it. He sealed a few other screws under the molding, as well. The molding was reinstalled and off I went. 
Well, today was the big test. After 4 days of nothing but rain here in N FL, I went down to the fiver to check it out. Much to my disappoinment, the pin box area is full of water - again. 
I have to find this leak and repair it. It's going to ruin this rv and we are very happy with it otherwise and have no plans to trade. 
I contacted a service in the Orlando area today that uses thermal infrared imaging to find leaks. Guaranteed to find it - but the cost is $1500-3000. NOT in the budget! 
Any other fiver owners had problems with a similar leaks? Thanks. Phillip and John


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Even though you are out of warranty, push to have this found and fixed under warranty.. Call Keystone and tell the story you told us to them..

I pull rv's for a living and have picked up 2-4 year old trailers and taken them back to the factory to have unfindable leaks and water damage fixed. All 3 came from the Northwest, One from Oregon, One from Seattle, and one from Vancouver, BC. One was so bad it needed both side walls replaced from delam damage..

I pull for Heartland RV though, but the guys in my company who pull for Keystone say they pick up couple year old units too from time to time to have repaired by the factory.. Again most of the time the damage is water damage..

No 2006/2007 rv should have a water leak bad enough that its filling up the pin box area..

You need to get this fixed asap.. If dealer cant fix it, demand it to be fixed at the factory.. All at no cost to you..

I have seen Heartland give people a brand new trailer because they werent happy and had justifiable reasons for there unhappiness.. I have hauled them out a new one and exchanged and brought back the old one.. I brought one back that was 4 years old and had a frame problem that Lippert admitted to and and worked with the mfr(heartland) and the owner to make sure everyone was happy..

Even though most Heartland RV's are at a premium pricewise, versus an Outback doesnt mean you shouldnt get the same attention..

Its time to make the wheel squeak! Demand a fix from Keystone!

Carey


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## puffer (Aug 28, 2008)

Read my signature. Good luck with Keystone......


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Even though you are out of warranty, push to have this found and fixed under warranty.. Call Keystone and tell the story you told us to them..
> 
> I pull rv's for a living and have picked up 2-4 year old trailers and taken them back to the factory to have unfindable leaks and water damage fixed. All 3 came from the Northwest, One from Oregon, One from Seattle, and one from Vancouver, BC. One was so bad it needed both side walls replaced from delam damage..
> 
> ...


Thanks for the detailed response. I am going to contact Suncoast next week to discuss the issue with them. I wonder what they will have to say. The tech seemed as perplexed by it. Al the seals on the entire camper look great, the window does not appear to leak and the putty around it all loks good. The the infamouss Seal Tech test proved useless. Even the tech said it is often a useless tool.
I know this rv has leaked since new because there has always been signs of water in the pin bo area. However, we never thought a lot about it since there was no sign of water anywhere in the camper until the valance ove the bed finally started to show water damage. Again, it is getting wet via the screw that holds it into place. 
We are sick about this and I'm worried that damage will already be irreversible even if the leak is stopped today. It's unfortuante since we really like this rv and have it eactly the way we want it now. 
I'd encourage any fiver owners to check inside the closets on either side of the bed for water damage on the backside of the valance. I know one other fiver member who has water damage there, too. 
Thanks to all for any response or suggestions. Phillip and John


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

UPDATE on the situation.

Well, today today was a BEAUTIFUL day after LOTS of rain. So John and I took the truck with the 8' ladder in the back down to the storage lot to inspect the fiver. As preiviously reported, we have a leak that is collecting in the fiberglass shround around the pin box. Mind you, there was lots of water in there after this weeks rains. 
We are pretty confident that the leak is in the strip of screws that hold the roof onto the sidewall at the front cap area. Since the work that Suncoast perfomred prior to all the rain did not prove beneficial, we decieded to make ago of a fix ourselves. 
We removed the vinyl insert to expose the screws. There are LOTS fo them. The tech at Suncoast said several were installed at an angle and had become rusty. Probably a sign of water intrusion. 
We removed all the silicon sealant that the tech put over the screw heads (maybe 7-10 total our of probably 30 screws). The sealant that had been applied had not adequately covered the screws. It probably was still wet when the vinyl insert was reinstalled, therfore, the seal became compromised. 
Once we did that, we took butyl tape and firmly pressed it into the screw track, over all the screw heads, and ALL the way down from the top of the rv to the bottom of the front. Then we reinstalled the vinyl insert. 
Next week, we are going to do the same thing to the other side and the strip that is on the roof that connects the rubber to the front cap. 
I can't believe Keystone installed/built this rv this way - with a bunch of screws UNSEALED on a basically flat surface without any sealant.
It's very unfortunate that it took us beyond the warranty period to figure out we had a leak. Especially since it's on the inside of a wall. I figure it's only a matter of time before delamination starts. 
We we only allerted to it via the damage to the valance over the bed. The screw that held it into the wall was channeling water to the valance. 
I can't imagine that anyone else who has a 2008 and prior fiver does not have the same problem. If the screws on that roof area are not sealed, water has to to get inside the wall. One would never know, just as us, until something alerts you to it. We never had, and still have no wet carpet or walls. 
So, may I suggest, folks, check the screw heads under the vinyl inserts if they are on a flat/roof surface. If they are not sealed, you are inviting water to the interior wall. 
Happy tavels. John and Phillip
P.S. Really looking forward to Topsail. See ya there!


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Well good deal.. I sure hope you guys have found it.. Water is the secret killer inside an RV.. I hope mold hasnt started inside the panels that have been wet..

If you ever get the leak stopped, Id have a look behind the panels that have been wet for so long..

Be sure and let us know how it goes..

Carey


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

I guess, on the positive side, at least the fiver has the aluminum sidewall framing and styrofoam insulation as oppossed to wood framing and fiber insulation. I bet it would be a real bear to get get interior wall panel detached in order to allow it to air out. That would be helpful though. phillip


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## 5th Time Around (Jul 8, 2008)

Phillip-

After all this rain we had, DH picked up the trailer for some Mods and water came gushing out of pin box too.

I removed the shower dome on the inside because DH said it was cracked and when I removed it some water came down. So we poured water over the outside dome (just a little) and in came the water. So I think we have isolated where the water is coming from. Now how to fix it. May have to order a new shower dome for the outside.

Jennifer


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

5th Time Around said:


> Phillip-
> 
> After all this rain we had, DH picked up the trailer for some Mods and water came gushing out of pin box too.
> 
> ...


Jennifer,
You hit on the right way to check for leaks. The "Keystone" leak test is absolutely useless. The way I found leaks in my former 27RSDS was to have my son hose down the outside and I stayed inside, teleling him where to spray, looking for leaks.
Darlene


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## jcat67 (Aug 8, 2008)

5th Time Around said:


> Phillip-
> 
> After all this rain we had, DH picked up the trailer for some Mods and water came gushing out of pin box too.
> 
> ...


Very interesting it was the shower dome, as this was the one I had a problem with and read someone else had it also. Mine was still under warranty so it went home for the fix. I thought it was just a seal issue, but sure enough it was a cracked dome. Must not take much for those to crack. Great way to test for the leak though.


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## 5th Time Around (Jul 8, 2008)

It was the chalking around the dome on the outside not the actual dome. We used Dicor sealant and we will see if that stops the leak. It is already raining here but the camper is back to storage. We did some other mode we can show you at Topsail.


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

Due to the location of the skylight in relation to the peak of the fivers roof line, I doubt the skylight is the source of the leak resulitng in water in the pin box area. That is, of course, unless the fiver is in storage at a nose down attitude. 
I have heard of lots of skylights leaking. So, I'm glad you gots yours fixed.
We'll have to look into that pin box water while at Topsail. phillip


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