# Heres Some Pics Of My Hitch



## Carey

I can finally post pics, and talk about my hitch publicly. Been a long time coming!

This crazy idea started from seeing the self supporting hitches/dollies on the internet. These were the Hell Ya, the Trailer Toad, The Tuff Tow, The Hitch buddy, and the Safety Hitch. Just type any of those into a search if any wants to see what they are. Most of these are selling with success. The Tuff Tow has become a factory option for the Pace American line of hauler trailers, thats saying something!

This is an old idea that is being brought back. With our technology of today these self supporting hitches are a reality. Its amazing what a set of wheels and a small suspension can do for towing. I still am baffled.

In trucking we use no bumper pull trailers without a support of a dolly. So in trucking a tongue weight isnt used unless it has the support of wheels beneath it. This idea is being put to automotive use now. It should have been many years ago as countless lives could have been saved.

I'm not getting into all the mechanics or physics of this idea here. I will save that for my website. I will try to answer any questions you may have.

There has been one member here that has test drove my rig with my hitch, and that is Curtis(collinsfamtx). Weve all read his comments and he has said about the same thing as me. Incredible!

I have tested my final unit in about every concievable way. Not going to get into that either. All I can say is it works just too good.

Since the tires dont steer, or the device does not swing it is technically not called a dolly. It is called a supported draft connection. I call it a self supporting hitch, or weight bearing hitch. But you can call it whatever you want.... lol This thing just works amazingly well.









This was the first one. this was made from a 18 inch hitch extension, and used air shocks from a chevy van.









I put about 2000 miles on this one, i made a steerable unit also, by making the swing arm different. Steerable wheels do not work well for our light weight rigs, but would be the choice for a motorhome towing a large trailer.









This was the second design I came up with. This is close to the final version. This thing is small and pretty easy to maneuver around. This is the very same hitch Curtis drove. I had fenders on it, but the mounts broke so I took them back off. The final version has a better idea to secure the fenders.









I was using a 6 inch air bag on this unit. I have went to a 8 inch.









I have since went back to 8 inch tires, 5.70x8. These are 175/50/13 tires which work awesome, weight rating 783 lbs at 40 psi. But you would need to be careful when turning so to not hit the tires with the tongue. With 8 inch tires you can turn past a 90 degree angle(truck and trailer) and still not hit the tires with the trailer tongue. The biggest obsticle I have had is figuring what tire to run.










This model had 6 inches of wheels travel, the final has 8 inches of wheel travel. You cannot get stuck in a dip when the hitch has as much travel as the tow vehcile. These tires have about 3000 miles on them, and you can see, pretty much no wear.










I could go on for pages here on what i have learned. Again these are two prototypes and not the final version. The final one is gusseted better, bigger air bag, has more adjustments, went back to 8 inch trailer tires so people can turn without worry.

I can handle about any of your thoughts. Some will like, some wont.. Thats what makes the world go round. I dont expect everyone to buy one and thats cool. I can tell you that when I am out in daylight with this thing, you may as well be driving a model t in the horse and buggy days. Ive had people wave me down on the highway many times. I have leaned not to go to Walmart, as generally there are 20-30 people standing there all wanting an explanation when I come out of the store.. Its actually kinda a pain in he A%$. But thats ok I try to be on my best behavior. lol

I am ready to take any kind of critisism. But this is one of those things you shouldnt knock till you try it kind of things. Makes towing many times safer than what is presently used. Turns a wiggle wagon into a straight trailer. It feels very semi like going down the highway, and we all know how fast semis run down the highway. With this device you can run, just as fast and be just as safe as the big trucks.
It supports from none to all of the weight, your choice. You can change the pressure from none to full very quick.

My mom calls it a wiggle stop. She is 66 and could not believe how safe this thing made her feel. I decided to use the name, The Hitch Hog. She wanted me to call it The Wiggle Stop. lol

Anyway, Ill quit there for now.

Carey


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## Camper Man

How much weight does the hitch add to gcvw?


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## ntputter17

Well thought out product and a very good presentation. Any thoughts yet on marketing? Availability? Price?.......

Kirk


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## Camper Man

Here's what I meant to say in my edited post above. Not sure how I manged to post this a second time:

How much weight does the hitch add to gcvw? My question arises because my 1/2 ton does not have a great deal of payload capacity. (I can certainly see the advantage of removing most of the tongue weight from the vehicle.)


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## Carey

Camper Man said:


> Here's what I meant to say in my edited post above. Not sure how I manged to post this a second time:
> 
> How much weight does the hitch add to gcvw? I assume a vehicle would need an air suspension pump as well. I don't know if those devices are particularly heavy. My questions arise because my 1/2 ton does not have a great deal of payload capacity.


Hi, Neither does mine. Basically what this does is support the weight of your trailers hitch. It does not change the combined gross weight rating(GCWR) you cannot tow anymore than waht is the combined spec for your truck.. For instnace, my dodge has a 14500 combined rating.

BUT, this allows a person to tow without effecting your Gross Vehicle Weight Rating(GVWR)

Lets use my rig for an example:
My Dodge has a GVW of 1479 lbs.

Here are the weights from the pilot truck stop in Amarillo TX.

Combined weight 12720

With air in bag on my hitch.
Front axle 2860
Rear axle 2840
My hitch 920
Trailer 6100

My tongue weight is 1120, so only two hundred pounds are on the truck, so I still have a 1200 payload allowed on my Dodge.

You can also see that the truck has a even weight split between the front and rear axle.. Makes for a very balanced feel going down the highway.

With air bag discharged, which is how you turn a sharp corner without wearing the tires, as they will scrub. With no air in the bag the tires will not drag. All of the tongue weight goes back onto the truck for backing, or tight corning. This is done with a simple flip of one rocker switch. Up is air compressor on, middle is off, down dumps the air. So when approching a corner, just flip the switch to down, and the air is dumped instantly.

I am a trucker and this is how we turn our spead axle trailers, without causing the front axle tires on the trailer to drag. We have a toggle switch in the cab, that we flip when turning. This idea has been used for many, many years in trucking. I am applying that idea to this.

I use a top of the line Viar 12 volt compressor which is capable of 150 psi. These air used in air bag suspensions for trucks and low riders. It is almost silent when running.

I also use an adjustable air regulator which controls the air compressor when the rocker switch is in th on/up position.

For instance, my rig uses 45 psi to support 1000 lbs of my 1200 hitch weight. I simply flip the switch to down, for dump, and up for air. the rugulator keeps the pressure at 45psi.

There is an electriacal side to this hitch that I havent ever discussed.

All that is required in the cab is a on/off/on rocker switch to control the electrical. I also will supply an air pressure guage that is mounted on the pillar, so you are able to see what is happening.

When I dump the air the numbers are ugly.

Front axle 2550
Rear axle 4170
Hitch 0000
Trailer 6000

The rear axle has an allowance of 3800 lbs.. So without the hitch I'm over the limits of the truck. Its really not drivable.. Very scary!

But for backing or turning a corner this weight wont hurt your truck.. Its down the highway thats the worry.

Carey


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## Carey

Here is the compressor I will supply with it. This fills the air bag in under 30 seconds for my hitch weight. These are considered top of the line in the air ride biz.

Click for link

Carey


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## Carey

The reason I use non-steerable wheels with this hitch is for more control.

First off this hitch adds wheelbase to the tow vehicle becuase the tires dont turn/steer.. All of us will benefit from more wheelbase. It adds on average about 3-4 feet. Makes a tahoe feel like a crew cab.. I have tested this myself.. If only the rental companies knew... lol

The trailer causes the rear axle on a tow vehicle to become the steering wheels for the trailer. So if your trailer pitches or sways one way or the other, it will try to move the tow vehicle rear tires along with it. We have all felt this. This is hard to control as your front tires are the tow vehicle steering, and the rear axle is the trailer steering.. This hitch locks everything together.. This adds needed friction and traction to the towing combo.

The trailer cannot control the tow vehicle, as it has now become many times harder to effect rear of the tow vehicle.

Again this is simple trucking technolgy I am applying to the rv world.

If you make the hitch steerable, you lose all the benefit of its security.. The one very thing we need when towing, is security.

This allows the driver to counter any unwanted movement much faster than what is present. Makes towing a simple one handed operation, reguardless of semi's, wind, slick roads, etc. I have ran down the highway at speeds of around 85mph for hours with this hitch. Feels very very much like my semi.

This is the most amazing thing the hitch does.. Makes towing very secure since you have your tow axle splt apart.. Its just incredible!

BUT, the biggest problem with non steerable wheels on something like this is drag on corners.. I have overcome that with a dump vavle, which removes the weight from the hitch when turning.

Carey


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## Morgueman

I love the idea of extending the effective wheelbase length. This is one of those..."Why didn't I think of that?" ideas.

Few questions:

1. How much does the whole hitch assembly weight (ball park)?

2. I believe one of the benfits of the Hensley-Arrow is that the part of the hitch that is connected to the trailer can move laterally relative to the part of the hitch that is connected to the tow vehicle, and I think this is one of the major ways that the Hensley-Arrow hitch virtually eliminates sway. Does your hitch minimize sway in a similar (or better) way.

3. How often do you estimate the tires will need to be replaced?

Thanks,
Eric


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## Carey

I have spent a couple thousand for patent searches. I hired a girl in Wash. DC for a 3 day search at the patant office library. she only came up with things trucking related, so that leaves this idea open..

When I found other self supporting hitches on the internet, they used springs, torsion bars, or rubber torsion axles.. I'm the first to apply air bag technolgy to a self supporting hitch. Air bags have been used in trucking many years. This is what i found lacking in the others. So i came up with this idea.

Air is considered the number one thing to support a load, thats why us truckers use it. Air ride technolgy has come milestones in the last few years in the automotive world. Its just been the last few years that this has become doable. basically there was no way to control the air, but with the rise of lowriders, and air suspension in 4x4 trucks and street cars, this has become doable.

The price? I really dont want to sell any just yet. What do you guys think. I have 1100.00 in parts. 8 hours labor, cutting, welding, building the electrical. so lets say I have 1500.00 in them. So add 40% = 2100.. I think thats what I'd sell em to people I know(you).. I think I will sell em for about 26-2800 with shipping included on the internet.

The trailer toad is the nearest competition. They sell for 2700 and up to 3200 on northern.com.

I have a heavy duty steerable version in the works that will support 3500lbs. It will sell for lower 3 grand something.

I wish the parts were cheaper. 
On marketing, for now i will use word of mouth, rv shows and the internet. I have to leave enough profit to allow me to sell to dealers if I want. I dont want to sell very many for starters. I'm hoping this thing takes off slowly. I have no interest in investors, or selling the idea.. But if it takes off big time, will have no choice in either selling the idea, or getting investors.

I'm just a one man show here with what seems to be a decent idea. To be honest, I'm investing everything I have, including my retirement. Where this goes.... Who really knows.. jumping in with everything I can muster!

The investor guys i have talked to basically become your boss.. I want to avoid that if I can.

Carey


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## Carey

Morgueman said:


> I love the idea of extending the effective wheelbase length. This is one of those..."Why didn't I think of that?" ideas.
> 
> Few questions:
> 
> 1. How much does the whole hitch assembly weight (ball park)?
> 
> 2. I believe one of the benfits of the Hensley-Arrow is that the part of the hitch that is connected to the trailer can move laterally relative to the part of the hitch that is connected to the tow vehicle, and I think this is one of the major ways that the Hensley-Arrow hitch virtually eliminates sway. Does your hitch minimize sway in a similar (or better) way.
> 
> 3. How often do you estimate the tires will need to be replaced?
> 
> Thanks,
> Eric


You know I havent weighed myfinal unit, but this unit weighed 125lbs with 13 inch tires. This new one will be about the same, maybe 150lbs. I'll have to get that done.

The tire that will come with the hitch a just the little 5.70 by 8 inch. I have found D rated tires in this size that will support 1025lbs each.

If you have the hitch set up properly, so when dumped on turns and there is no weight on them, the little tire will last 5-6000 miles or more. These tires get much abuse from scrub just going down the highway. They create the friction to lock the rear of the tow vehicle.

The one good thing is the little 8 inch wheels can be had for from 32-35 bucks each on the internet, rim and all. So for what they do are cheap. I know they are super easy to mount new tires on those lil rims. The tires alone sell for about 20 bucks.

If a customer puts on 13 inch tires like I have in those pics above will last prolly 10-15000 miles. BUT the customer would need to watch his turning, as they hit easier. I cant sell those, but a customer could sure add them if they prefer.

Those 13 inch tires are 20 inches in diameter, but only support 783 lbs each, which would prolly suffice for 90% of us.. The 8 inch tires are 18 in diameter.. believe it or not that one inch makes all the difference. The hitch extends the ball mount 17 inches.. This is about the same as a Hensley Arrow. I dont feel comfortable extending the hitch any more than that, so that limits me on the tire size. I have to pick a tire for the general public, so I have to go with the smallest tire that can do the job.

The tires were the biggest issue on this hitch.. I spent many, many sleepless nights thinking about that subject.

This also moves the physical hinge point of the trailer to about the rear axle, same as a Hensley. It turns a bumper pull into a 5th wheel. This is what the Hensley is lacking.. The only true way to tow safe is with the tongue supported to the ground. Why this hasnt been done, I really dont know, but in my eyes all these weight dist hitches without a true to the ground support is only a band aid for a bad situation. People still continue to have sway accidents with whats out there. Something needs done.

I would really like for all of us supported hitch builders to go to NHTSA and have them test these units and get there view.

Sway. I have rented anything from a jeep liberty, to a suburban, to my dodge , to a buddies duramax. I have towed from 5000- 10000 lb trailers in all combos. Not even one time have i got the trailer to sway.

I can rock the steering wheel back and forth at highway speeds, and I cant get the trailer to sway. Why? I really dont know why adding a couple tires with a suspension can stop all of the bad characteristics of what we have now. Semis never even move it. I have tested with as low as 8% tongue weight and still cant get sway to happen.. I have ran at speeds in the 80mph range.

I'm not an engineer, but spent time in college in an automotive BA degree, just never made it.. All I can say is with the tires behind the vehicle locks the tow vehicle to the ground, allowing the driver to counter sway much, much faster than what is present. Semis have the same feel from all the axles spread apart.. This feels the same as a semi.

Another good point is you are able to take curves in the highway at much higher speeds because the trailer cant push the rear of the tow vehicle anymore. I can take 30mph curves at 50 mph with one hand on the wheel with this hitch.. Its totally smooth.

Carey


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## whodey

Carey,

Looks like a great idea. From what I've been reading, if I would've had one of these, I wouldn't of had to get rid of my 1/2 ton silverado. The more I read from this and other posts, I now believe the tongue weight was what was killing the truck. Like everyone says, if you don't feel safe, what's the fun. Give me a year or two, and I might be ready to purchase one these. It took alot to persuade the dw to upgrade to the equalizer from the reese hitch. I'll have to ease her into this one. Once again, looks great, good luck and in my opinion, this will take off good. Make sure you get all your patents taken care of. I wouldn't want to see you go through all this work and investing for someone to come by and take all the credit (and money) from you.

Mike


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## Carey

whodey said:


> Carey,
> 
> Looks like a great idea. From what I've been reading, if I would've had one of these, I wouldn't of had to get rid of my 1/2 ton silverado. The more I read from this and other posts, I now believe the tongue weight was what was killing the truck. Like everyone says, if you don't feel safe, what's the fun. Give me a year or two, and I might be ready to purchase one these. It took alot to persuade the dw to upgrade to the equalizer from the reese hitch. I'll have to ease her into this one. Once again, looks great, good luck and in my opinion, this will take off good. Make sure you get all your patents taken care of. I wouldn't want to see you go through all this work and investing for someone to come by and take all the credit (and money) from you.
> 
> Mike


No problem.. lol I hear ya.

My lawyer tells me to not worry and go for it. I will be in patent pending for 3 years, till an actual number is assigned. Until then anyone could make and sell a model just like this. Nothing I can do till I have a number in hand. Its up to the patent office to tell who had the idea first.

You have to do your own police work, and cant do much till you have your number in hand. At that point if someone is infringing you, then you have as much ammo as you can get, which in this world is not much..

In this world nothing is safe. But like my lawyer said, just dont worry and leave those details to me.

I'm not looking to become some mogul here. I'm just looking to make an honest living, and get out of my semi.. Time will tell if all that comes true... I can say this has been an amazing ride so far, and incredibly expensive too. lol

Most all things that work well get copied, not much you can do about that. This can be made diferently than what is present, and not much I could do about it... But I have no problem with that and fully expect it.

If these devices become an industry standard, many will jump in. But many campers are sold per year, and its forcast that those number will go up. There will be room for all of us..

One main reason to get a patent is to give your company value. Creditors tend to only loan on assets, and a company with a patent is a much better risk than a company with no patent.

Thanks for the good words all..

Carey


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## malibutay

I like it! This opens up alot of options especially for 1/2 ton owners.









Are you going to be at the San Antonio show in Jan by any chance?


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## Carey

malibutay said:


> I like it! This opens up alot of options especially for 1/2 ton owners.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you going to be at the San Antonio show in Jan by any chance?


No sure wish I was though.. I'm just not ready yet.. sorry

I'm shooting for my first show in a few months here in Colorado.

I just got the ok from my lawyer to post these pics just 2 days ago.. Still working on the rest of the business stuff.

Carey


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## Carey

Here is a you tube video I thru on. I took this while going to see Curtis.

The audio is bad, cause one of my kids dropped our camera, I have since gotten a new one.

I left pueblo, and ran between 75-85mph down to trinidad co. got 6.4 mpg lol.

You can see how secure this thing tows with this hitch. Again we are talking about a 7000lb trailer with a 1200 lb tongue weight... Most 1/2 tons would be in the ditch or uncontrollable at this speed.

Here is the link. click for video

Again sorry about the audio..

Carey


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## Carey

Here is a video of a semi passing me. I put the trailer right on the middle white line. Slowed to about 55mph and let a semi go past doing 70+..

It doesnt matter what vehicle or trailer you have, you will feel a movement in the streeing wheel if you set your trailer on the white line, and slow down and have a semi blaze past you...

Most all of us concentrate on staying on the fog line to the right, most certainly not the left line.

It amazes me how secure this thing handles.

Again the audio is bad..

I'll be making a set of new videos soon to put on my site.

Click for link

Carey


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## beachbum

Carey,
Nice work!! Surprisingly, it makes sense and I understand your explanations. The whole W/D and sway control thing is confusing, but you do make sense. About the air and compressor... Will this be on-board the Hitch Hog and powered through the vehicle trailer plug or will the compressor be installed on TV? How difficult do anticipate that to be??
david


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## Carey

beachbum said:


> Carey,
> Nice work!! Surprisingly, it makes sense and I understand your explanations. The whole W/D and sway control thing is confusing, but you do make sense. About the air and compressor... Will this be on-board the Hitch Hog and powered through the vehicle trailer plug or will the compressor be installed on TV? How difficult do anticipate that to be??
> david


The compressor is mounted under the hood.. Viar the maker of the compressor likes the compresor within 3 feet of the battery. They are pretty easy to install. My brother is making a cool wiring kit that will be for the most part plug and play. It would take about 3 hours to install the compressor, electrical and air lines.

There is a single 1/4 inch air line to the rear of the truck, with a air fitting on that. This way you can hook either the hitch or an air hose into that for filling tires.

Off of the single air line, by the compresor, there are 2 tee's. One for the air regulator, which controls the compressor for the amount of air pressure you may need. It has a screw in the end, once you have that set, the compressor kicks off at that pressure. It is super simple to adjust.

The other Tee is hooked to the dump valve which exhausts the air in an instant.

Then by the firewall I run another tee with a 1/8 inch copper tubing running into the cab, for the pillar mounted air pressure guage.

The reason this stops sway is, when sway happens, for it to effect you in the cab or your tow vehicle, it has to move the rear of the tow vehicle.. As sway gets worse, there is more movement of the rear tires on the tow vehicle. You counter the movement of the rear tires with the front steer tires. If your timing is not right countering the movement of the rear tires, then this gives the uncontrollable scary feeling... Weve all felt it. the trailer all of the sudden whips to one side, when a semi passes or a gust of wind comes along.. its an uneasy feeling.

Your trailer can move around all it wants behind the ball, but if it cant move the rear end of your tow vehicle very easy, then you are able to control any movement much easier and much faster. This hitch stops movement of the rear axle, because the hitch tires have to move first before the tow vehicle tires.

I will be making a video showing how much a rear axle moves when sway happens.. For now open the link and click the sway control box below the video.. You can see how much the truck moves when sway happens.. This hitch stops this.

click for link

Carey


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## Carey

Here is a pic of the air compressor. This is an earlier version. The dump valve is shown toward the front, this was before i found the proper air regulator, so its not in the pic.









Carey


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## Carey

Here is my logo. lol










Carey


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## Carey

One more thing this hitch does is reduce tire and rear axle oil temps by bunches.

The weight is thru weight thru the axle now. The axle no longer has to support the weight. this keeps the outer axle bearings very cool. And as we all know, 1/2 tons have bearing problems in the outer axles when too much weight is on them. This is why 3/4 tons have there outer bearings seperated from the axle itself, to reduce wear and temps.

Tire temps are also lowered by a bunch.

Why waste your expensive truck tires when these cheap lil hitch tires can take off the wear and heat?

Carey


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## MJRey

Carey,

Nice looking hitch with some real beneficial features. To me the biggest benefits are the elimination of sway and the dramatic reduction in tonque weight carried by the tow vehicle. I see two things that will be the biggest drawback for most people. First will be the need to install the compressor, air lines, and wiring to control the device. Most people don't like to spend several hours running hoses/wires around the vehicle. The easier you can make the install with vehicle specific kits the better. If you could make it part of the hitch that would be good but may not be practical. The second issue will be the need to depressurize the hitch during turns. I suspect most people will not care for the idea of having to manually lower the air pressure for turns. Would it be possible to set up an automatic switch that senses the angle between the trailer and hitch and depressurizes without the driver needing to use a switch.

The price seems reasonable especially compared to something like the Hensley Arrow. The patent for the Hensley Arrow is supposed to expire in about a year, Feb 09 I believe, and I've always wondered if that will bring the price down on the hitch? Your design still has the added advantage of the reduced tow vehicle payload though.

Good luck and I wish you the best in marketing your invention.


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## Carey

MJRey said:


> Carey,
> 
> Nice looking hitch with some real beneficial features. To me the biggest benefits are the elimination of sway and the dramatic reduction in tonque weight carried by the tow vehicle. I see two things that will be the biggest drawback for most people. First will be the need to install the compressor, air lines, and wiring to control the device. Most people don't like to spend several hours running hoses/wires around the vehicle. The easier you can make the install with vehicle specific kits the better. If you could make it part of the hitch that would be good but may not be practical. The second issue will be the need to depressurize the hitch during turns. I suspect most people will not care for the idea of having to manually lower the air pressure for turns. Would it be possible to set up an automatic switch that senses the angle between the trailer and hitch and depressurizes without the driver needing to use a switch.
> 
> The price seems reasonable especially compared to something like the Hensley Arrow. The patent for the Hensley Arrow is supposed to expire in about a year, Feb 09 I believe, and I've always wondered if that will bring the price down on the hitch? Your design still has the added advantage of the reduced tow vehicle payload though.
> 
> Good luck and I wish you the best in marketing your invention.


Yea Ive thought of that, not much you can do about running wires and air line. I think many would enjoy having on board air on there rigs, but maybe not.. Yes the compressor could be mounted on the hitch. Maybe I should offer them either way. I love having on board air though.

We are working on a time delay relay that could be used off the brake light circuit. My brother has a degree in electrical engineering/computers.. He is a master at that stuff. He is making a delay relay right now, and he will be building the wiring kits, to make them close to a plug and play. As far as mounting the compressor I'm working on a universal mount, but as far as vehicle specific, maybe someday. The compressor is a very easy install.. The manufacturer of the compressor has nothing, so if I at least try will be better than nothing.

The problem is not every time you make a turn you apply the brakes. There are many variables when driving and it is about impossible to come up with something that would cover them all. The air needs dumped before you make your turn so a tell device on the tongue wouldnt work. There is not much you could monitor on the vehicle that could be used to control the air bag except for the steering.. I have been told not to make any sort of a device that could monitor the steering, as if there ever was a problem could be in for big liability.

In my testing 99% of driving is just cruising going forward, making turns is a very small part of the trip, same as backing up. If you are going to make several turns I just leave the bag dumped till I make all my turns.

I know in trucking we have used this idea forever, and it really is a no biggie once you get used to it..

But as usual you cant please everyone, but we are still trying to come up with an idea on that. I do agree that a honest try should be made.

Its no real biggie if you miss dumping the bag every now and then, all that happens is some small increased tire wear. And again at 30-35 bucks a tire isnt a real biggie for most, for the tradeoff of what the device does.

I wish the rubber compound was harder on these lil tires, as that would help too.. The rubber is very soft, so dragging them removes tread quicker than auto tires.

The tires on the second hitch in the pics there have about 3000 miles on them. I have a pair of lil tires with 2000 miles on them, but they are pretty worn, because alot of the testing on those were done with no dump solinoid. I have another hitch that Ive been loaning to buddies, but it uses no air compressor, and is filled with a tire valve.. That hitch has tons of miles on it, but generally when it comes back the tires are worn out from dragging them. One ole guy we know put about 4000 miles on it and dragged the tires on every corner.. He put the spare on the right side about half way thru.

So the tire wear issue is a biggie, but not all that much of a biggie. I like to take a trip say of 1000 miles and have less than 1/32 tire wear, maybe others feel different.

Carey


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## sleecjr

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Carey,
> 
> .


Yea Ive thought of that, not much you can do about running wires and air line. I think many would enjoy having on board air on there rigs, but maybe not.. Yes the compressor could be mounted on the hitch. Maybe I should offer them either way. I love having on board air though.

[/quote]

You could mount the compressor on the front of the camper. Let it use the camper batt for power. The truck will then recharge the camper batt. As far as the turn thing goes. All you need is a Magnetic limit switch on the hitch and camper tongue. When it turns to far it will lower the pressure automatically. When it goes straight it will raise it back.

Just an idea.


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## Carey

I'll look into the limit switch Lee, thats probably a great idea. But there again, you would need to run more wires and another plug for the limit switch.

On the compressor, its one of those things that would have to fit each person. Some would want the compressor on there truck, some would want it on the hitch, and some would want it on the trailer. I for one enjoy having the compressor on our truck, because we ride dirtbikes and dont always take the rv, so that works well for us. If it is mounted on the hitch or camper I would need to make a box for it. Viar wants the compresssor kept as dry as possible. In the trunk is there preffered method, but 2nd is under the hood.

One problem about mounting it on the trailer is, this hitch works real well if you use it support a load in the truck bed without a trailer.

For instance when I get firewood, it weighs about 1500lbs for a truck load. Again my lil dodge sags its butt. I put my hitch on and pick the truck back up.. Works awesome and you dont even hardly know that load of wood is back there, again when I turn I flip the switch to not drag the tires on turns.

So I guess I could offer a box for it if someone wanted to mount it on the trailer, and make a bolt on mount if someone wanted it on the hitch. But the preffered method is still the truck, because the hitch can be used to support a load in the bed without a trailer.

I guess I will mention those 3 methods on my website, but I think most people would want the compressor on the truck because the hitch can be used without a trailer, or the compressor can be used without the hitch.

Thanks for the help Lee, I'll go do a search on a mag limit switch!

Carey


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## tdvffjohn

Having the compressor on the truck with a holding tank, you could then add air horns between the frame rails like I did. The air horns saved me once on my cross country trip or I would have been side swiped doing 65 mph.

John


----------



## beachbum

Thanks for the details regarding the air compressor. I like the idea of on-board air for the tv. I do some beach driving and currently use a 10lb CO2 cartridge for airing up the tires. I've not been able to find a suitable 12V compressor that provides the same outlet pressure (about 80lbs til empty). Also, the mounting and wiring seems to have high PIA factor just for airing up tires and toys on the road. Might be worth it for the benefits of your hitch. How easy will you be able to make the compressor installation??
Also, the tire wear issue is real. With only 27K on my truck, regular tire rotation, my OEM tires are about shot. I am not usually hard on tires, getting 50-65K on the OEM tires with a new vehicle. Inflating rear tires to 80lbs(and wearing out the center) to carry the trailer load seems like it will be eliminated with your hitch.
david


----------



## Carey

beachbum said:


> Thanks for the details regarding the air compressor. I like the idea of on-board air for the tv. I do some beach driving and currently use a 10lb CO2 cartridge for airing up the tires. I've not been able to find a suitable 12V compressor that provides the same outlet pressure (about 80lbs til empty). Also, the mounting and wiring seems to have high PIA factor just for airing up tires and toys on the road. Might be worth it for the benefits of your hitch. How easy will you be able to make the compressor installation??
> Also, the tire wear issue is real. With only 27K on my truck, regular tire rotation, my OEM tires are about shot. I am not usually hard on tires, getting 50-65K on the OEM tires with a new vehicle. Inflating rear tires to 80lbs(and wearing out the center) to carry the trailer load seems like it will be eliminated with your hitch.
> david


David, yea for sure on the tire pressure, you could go back down to prolly 50psi on your tires. I would bet the towing tire wear is reduced by half.

They make these small 12 volt compressors in many sizes. I am using the Viar 280 on my truck right now which works well. I have been thinking of moving up to the Viar325 with 33% duty cycle or Viar 350 with a 100% duty cycle. The 100% duty cycle can be run continuous 24/7. So if you air big tires alot would be perfect. I keep thinking once someone has the compressor, they would be surprised how much they use it. I just use mine for the occasional tire, MX tires and my hitch, so the 280 works well for that. But I think I will include the 325 or 350 with the hitch.

They want it mounted in a fairly dry locaton, and as flat and as level as you can get it. I have found that bolting a plate or some angle off of the bottom of the battery box works well as a place to mount the compressor. Most trucks have some room around the battery box. I am going to include a mounting plate made from angle with the hitch, because I mount the relay on that.

The wiring is simple, with just 2 wires going into the cab. My brother is fabricating a 2 second time delay for the compressor, as the air regulator is very sensitive to pressure changes going down the highway, so that will fix that. He will have those done nect week.

After talking with him the afternoon, he feels after researching, a time delay off of the brake light circuit would be useless, as there are just to many variables... I agree.

The wiring is very simple. the installer would have to hook up one + wire to the battery, one - wire to ground, one wire to a the compressor side of the rocker switch, one wire to the dump side of the rocker switch, one wire from the rocker switch to ground. We will take care of the rest. Then on the air pressure guage one wire to ground, and wire splicing into the dashlight circuit.

The air line runs from the compressor to the rear in one piece. The there are two tee's in the engine compartment, one for air regulator, one for dump. Then you'll need a tee to go to the guage. I like 1/8 copper for that because it is way tougher than lil 1/8 inch air line. Most all air pressure guages are mechanical. It is very hard to find electric air pressure guages, and those that are out there are pricey. I use a VDO air pressure guage as this model lights up thru the guage, instead of around the guage. looks very much like factory at night. I run the air line on the outside of the frame, with zip ties to the rear. this air line is very tough stuff, its the same we use in our semi's. But if it gets around any heat, will melt.

I am building 10 hitches right now and plan on building another 20-25 in january. So it wont be too long before I have all this up and running.

Here are some more pics:









The dump valve is the black valve in the front of the pic with the blue wires. the air regulator is by the battery with white wires attached. the compressor mounts off of the side of the battery box lower plate. it could be mounted side to side or front to back. Its almost silent when its on sitting in the cab.
there is a relay beside the compressor that the switch ground out when switched to compressor on.



























This seems to be a great place to mount the air guage.









This is the tee going to the air guage.










Carey


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## Carey

tdvffjohn said:


> Having the compressor on the truck with a holding tank, you could then add air horns between the frame rails like I did. The air horns saved me once on my cross country trip or I would have been side swiped doing 65 mph.
> 
> John


You would have to use like a 3 gallon air tank, with regulator hooked to that to keep around 120 psi in the tank. Then instead of an electric air regulator like i am using, you'd need to change that over to a manual regulator. It would need another dump valve in front of the manual regulator.. The dump valve would work backwards to become a supply valve for the air bag. The real dump valve would then need to be supplied downwind of the supply valve. The supply valve would need to be shut off before dumping, or you would dump the entire air system tank and all.

This is why i didnt include an air tank with this hitch.. Things get complicated very quickly. the price would quickly be into the 3 grand range with this setup.. Just the controllers to control this mess start at about 250 bucks..

So if you want air horns with the way i have this setup it would be an expensive addition, because the air bag air circuit would need all of its own air controlers.

Remeber that an air suspension for your vehicle can get into the 4-6000 dollar range. this is what the street guys pay to get an air system on there cars. Then they take them to competitions and do car dancing with them.. There controllers start at 1500 bucks, and use a playstion keypad to control the air bag suspension in there car.

To include an air tank, I would also need to include a controler to open and close the supply and dump valves in the correct timing.

Sorry.

Carey


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## Oregon_Camper

Who is your target market?

End users or resellers?

Seems to me end users would already be set up and have (hopefully) enough TV for the job.

I ask, as $2500 or more, seems like a lot to drop for a hitching system.


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## N7OQ

I'm very impresses with this hitch it sounds like the way to go with a 1/2 ton TV like what I have. I assume you don't need weight distributing bars it that right? If you dump the air in a turn then I guess the TV now has all the tongue weight and if you have the TV loaded with cargo you then might be over weigh? How fast will the bag fill back up with air again? How much of a turn can you take before you will dump the air? will the air dump in a normal turn in the road like a curve? I drive on a lot of curvy roads in the mountains. I hope you sell a bunch of these and it becomes a great investment for you.


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## Carey

Oregon_Camper said:


> Who is your target market?
> 
> End users or resellers?
> 
> Seems to me end users would already be set up and have (hopefully) enough TV for the job.
> 
> I ask, as $2500 or more, seems like a lot to drop for a hitching system.


The Hensley Arrow is only available to end users.. There is one who has been successful. The Trailer Toad is also aimed at end users. The Hell Ya is aimed at end users, but he does have a small dealer network.. The Safety Hitch is aimed at end users. The Air Safe Hitch is aimed at end users. Along with several others.

The internet has become a place to go to when you have a problem.. All of the above mentioned companies are doing well just with Rv shows, word of mouth and the internet.

My hitch is right in line with the Hensley and Trailer Toad.

The kicker... My hitch is the only self supporting hitch in the world at present who offers a air bag suspension with 8 inches of wheel travel. The Air Safe Hitch uses an air bag, BUT the only thing he did wrong was to not continue the hitch to the ground.

All of the other self supporting hitches use coil springs or rubber torsion axles... None of them allow you to remove the weight on corners. They have to have steerable tires.. They also require you to get out and fight with a pin to lock the axle when backing.. My hitch and the Hell Ya are the only self supporting hitches in the world that can extend the wheelbase of any tow vehicle.. This is a huge issue in safety.. The Hell Ya will go thru a set of tires in under 1000 miles.. He even tells you to not use his hitch for long distance towing.. It is meant for farmers towing implements on dirt roads.. The people who have tried it on the road say it is totally impractical..

I spent 3 months evaluating the weekness of all of the self supporting hitches that are available.. I improved upon all of there inventions in every department..

But yes 2500 is a chunk to spend, but so is 1900 for the Tuff Tow, 1200 for the Hell Ya, 27-3200 for the Trailer Toad, 3100 for a Hensley, 8000 for the Safety Hitch, 6000 for the Hitch Buddy, 6-800 for the Air Safe Hitch, that has no wheels. etc....

So I am right in there with every one else.

If I sell 100 per year at 1000 profit that is 100 grand a year.. 100 hitches are a real possibility, in fact so is 1000 hitches a year.

The trailer toad is selling 250 a month. The hell ya is about the same. The hensley is selling thousands a year..

This market only appeals to about 1-2% of the towing public at present.. It is growing very fast though.. A few 1/10ths a year.. Lets say there are 2 million rv trailers out there.. 1% is 20,000 trailers.. All of us put together are not selling 20,000 hitches a year. BUT there are only 3-4 of us to divide that 20,000 up. if i sold 5000 hitches in my career, I made 5 million....

I'm not out to rip the market apart.. I am going to quietly sell my quota every month and slowly build the reputaion of these self supporting hitches like everyone else is doing..

The NHTSA does have an interest in testing these devices. That is where I'm going!

I have 2 million miles experience driving a truck. I have witnessed many sway accidents.. Out of those, 3 have resulted in 4 deaths, 2 were kids. I pulled the blankets out of my sleeper to cover two of the very mangled bodies. One a 7 year old girl, the other a 30 something dad.. The memory will never fade..

Seeing these sway accidents happen from the rear has taught me something... There needs to be something out there to help people tow safer. Its not the trailer causing the wrecks... Its the tow vehicle not being able to handle the sway.. Why... Because the rear axle moves way too much when sway happens.. You cannot tow a 5000lb camper off the bumper of any vehicle with its rear axle 3 feet ahead of the rear bumper... This is the most stupid way to tow there is.. like i have said before and before, no other vehicle uses a bumper hitch to tow except automotive.. This idea was fine in the 30-40's, but our trailers are much heavier and we tow at very high speeds comparred to yesteryear.
At present the only way to to safe, and I mean safe to where there are no sway accidents, is with a ground contact below the ball/hinge of the hitch.. Trucking could not survive without towing this way... Us RV'rs cant either!

Many people use SUV's to tow with and still in this world 1/2 and 3/4 tons are about equal in numbers out there towing. Thats the market..

Have i mentioned what this hitch can do for people who tow bumper pull horse trailers.. This softens the ride so much, you no longer need a cushion pad for your horses to stand on.. Horses hate being bounced around in a trailer.. many many leg injuries can be prevented using this hitch for horse trailers.. Horses get very tired standing in horse trailers... What makes them tired is the rough ride.. I could prolly make a great living just off of staying in the horse market.. But no, I'm going for the market that needs it the most.. I would rather see people more safe than horses.

The reason i am doing this is to throw another idea out there, and just maybe the idea will catch on. If we can get NHTSA approval, you will see many, many companies begin to offer these kind of hitches. I will prolly end up a loser money wise, but thats ok.. Iam doing this to help people.

Your keeping me up past my bedtime... I better quit.

Carey


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## Carey

N7OQ said:


> I'm very impresses with this hitch it sounds like the way to go with a 1/2 ton TV like what I have. I assume you don't need weight distributing bars it that right? If you dump the air in a turn then I guess the TV now has all the tongue weight and if you have the TV loaded with cargo you then might be over weigh? How fast will the bag fill back up with air again? How much of a turn can you take before you will dump the air? will the air dump in a normal turn in the road like a curve? I drive on a lot of curvy roads in the mountains. I hope you sell a bunch of these and it becomes a great investment for you.


There are quite a few states who require wd hitches.. So if you live in one of those states you will need to keep your w/d sway hitch..

As you are approaching your turn, not a curve in the highway, but a 90* corner. You flip the switch maybe 20 feet from the turn, or a lil more doesnt really matter.. Then make your turn, then as soon as the combo straightens back out, flip the switch back to compressor. The compressor will fill the bag in under 30 seconds.. I support 1000lbs with 45psi in the bag.. Your trailer prolly would be around 35psi.. It fills very quick to the set limit on the regulator and shuts off.

Yes you are over weight at these times when turning. But these are very slow speed times and this doesnt hurt your vehicle.. 
For instance, Us truckers dump our front axles on our spread axle flatbeds and reefers all the time on 90* turns.. 38,000lbs are split evenly between the two axles.. All of the weight gets transferred back to the rear axle when we turn, we are almost doubling the amount of our legal limits both axle, tires. But this does less damage to the roads and the tires of the front axle.. This is where I got this idea, from my trucking experience.. This idea saves the tires, but still allows the security of non steering wheels.

Slow speed turning and backing with all of the weight of the tongue on your hitch and vehicle wont hurt a thing.. What hurts the hitch and vehicle is being overweight bouncing down the highway..

You do not dump the air at all when going thru curves in the highway.. This is where you really notice what those tires back there are doing for you.. You are able to take curves smoothly and with no pitch or see/saw of the trailer and steering wheel... Again the reason, is the hitches wheels do not allow the trailer to push the rear axle of the tow vehicle thru turns.

I know we have all felt this when taking a curve too fast. Either a pitch, a see/saw, or a feeling of the rear end of your tow vehicle being pushed/washed out.

This hitch allows you to take curves at much higher speeds than those lil yellow info signs.. I can comfortably go thru curves one handed at 10-15 mph above the posted yellow sign speed.. I will have vidoes on my website showing this..

If you take the curve at the posted yellow sign limit, you wont hardly even notice the trailer is behind you... Feels much like driving your tow vehicle empty.. I know this is a big claim, but with wheels below the ball, the trailer acts in a very controlled maner..

The wd and sway bars are worthless, but if you have to keep them for the law, for sure do so.

Thanks for the good words Bill, and everyone else too! You guys views are the same as what I have seen out there on the highways.. So far people are pretty open to the idea.. I tried to keep this whole idea very simple both physical and mechanical wise, because still in our world of modern complexity, simple ideas still can work.

Thanks Guys!

Carey


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## PDX_Doug

Well, one thing is inescapable, you are not lacking for enthusiasm!
You go, Carey!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Collinsfam_WY

I just saw this thread last night and wanted to chime in since I have driven this rig and pulled a trailer with it. Sorry for the late response Carey - been busy with xmas stuff over the weekend









The trailer was Carey's 23KRS and it was heavily loaded in the cargo area. Several dirt bikes, a big tool box loaded down, bunch of other stuff. I don't know how much it all weighed so just a guess here - 1100lbs? The truck was his dodge ram 1500 with the hemi. The hitch was the "revision 2" Hitch Hog with the auto tires on it - just as you see it in the pictures here.

I was able to drive the rig and also Carey took me for a spin to demonstrate its' performance - part of which was a low-speed circuit with me riding in the bed watching the hitch work.

Towing impressions: It does not feel like what you are familiar with. It is disconcerting at first because of that. You do not get any of the sensations you may be familiar with with the exception that you can feel the weight behind the truck. The tow vechicle feels more stable going down the road. It is hard to explain this in words for sure. The best way I can explain it is that if you imagine a dynamic force pulling backwards on the truck like if you had some sort of parachute back there but no trailer. So if your tow vehicle was going down the road with nothing hitched up to it...but you had something back there like that parachute that was providing a force your vehicle was pulling against - it feels like that. So - there is no motion imparted to the truck from whatever the trailer is doing. I would say "it is very smooth" but it is more accurate to say that your tow vehicle feels like your tow vehicle when it is not towing. That is the creepy thing about it. The stability and smoothness the hitch imparts is unfamiliar territory - at least to me and what I am familiar with. The bizarre thing is that what made me feel so uncomfortable at first was the fact that the stability was so good - you don't "feel" the bounces, wiggling and anything else other than the "pull" of the weight. The absence of those things, after a few miles, was very appealing to say the least.

Now I am not saying anything about how your rig pulls - I am just saying how his felt as compared to mine - that is all I can honestly give testimony too.

Now Carey also took me for a ride and to demonstrate how it performs - he did some things that I would never do and put us in situations that I try to avoid. I won't get into details but he made me nervous at first and I slowly relaxed as what I know to be "sway imparting", "truck buffet" or other similar towing situations did not have the expected effect. No white knuckles









I have to run for now - hope to post more later - just real dadgum busy lately with a new job and all. I want to give Carey a big congrats on getting this far - we are thrilled for you and your family and wish the best for all of you.

Curtis


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## Thor

Carey

Hats off to you





















Awesome post with pic and details. Well done.

Thor


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## Nathan

Very interesting idea!

2 questions:

1. How about the durability of the wheel bearings with those small wheels? How often do you repack those?

2. I've only once lowered my OB onto the ball all the way without the WDH. I'd be afraid to move my truck that way!!! If you did connect a wdh also, could you set it up to limit the sag on the rear end when you dumped the air? I would almost think about running around town without the air in (rather than dumping each corner) and then using the air for stability during higher speed towing...


----------



## D1Boz

What do you expect would happen if one of those little tires blew out running down the road??? Not trying to knock it, just curious as to what might happen. Was wondering if you might have tried flatting one tire and testing it to see if it would hold up on one tire to pull over safely or would throw the truck around. That's the only concern I would have being that the hitch has the weight on those tires and not on the truck. It's a little different than the semi because they have the duel wheels and that usually leaves one wheel to help support it to pull over. What do you think???

Congrats and Good Luck on your invention!!!!


----------



## Mgonzo2u

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Carey,
> 
> Looks like a great idea. From what I've been reading, if I would've had one of these, I wouldn't of had to get rid of my 1/2 ton silverado. The more I read from this and other posts, I now believe the tongue weight was what was killing the truck. Like everyone says, if you don't feel safe, what's the fun. Give me a year or two, and I might be ready to purchase one these. It took alot to persuade the dw to upgrade to the equalizer from the reese hitch. I'll have to ease her into this one. Once again, looks great, good luck and in my opinion, this will take off good. Make sure you get all your patents taken care of. I wouldn't want to see you go through all this work and investing for someone to come by and take all the credit (and money) from you.
> 
> Mike


No problem.. lol I hear ya.

My lawyer tells me to not worry and go for it. I will be in patent pending for 3 years, till an actual number is assigned. Until then anyone could make and sell a model just like this. Nothing I can do till I have a number in hand. Its up to the patent office to tell who had the idea first.

You have to do your own police work, and cant do much till you have your number in hand. At that point if someone is infringing you, then you have as much ammo as you can get, which in this world is not much..

In this world nothing is safe. But like my lawyer said, just dont worry and leave those details to me.

I'm not looking to become some mogul here. I'm just looking to make an honest living, and get out of my semi.. Time will tell if all that comes true... I can say this has been an amazing ride so far, and incredibly expensive too. lol

Most all things that work well get copied, not much you can do about that. This can be made diferently than what is present, and not much I could do about it... But I have no problem with that and fully expect it.

If these devices become an industry standard, many will jump in. But many campers are sold per year, and its forcast that those number will go up. There will be room for all of us..

One main reason to get a patent is to give your company value. Creditors tend to only loan on assets, and a company with a patent is a much better risk than a company with no patent.

Thanks for the good words all..

Carey
[/quote]

Carey,

Being in the insurance business, I can only suggest you load up on as much Product Liability insurance as you possibly can to protect yourself in this very litigious society we live in.


----------



## Carey

Nathan said:


> Very interesting idea!
> 
> 2 questions:
> 
> 1. How about the durability of the wheel bearings with those small wheels? How often do you repack those?
> 
> 2. I've only once lowered my OB onto the ball all the way without the WDH. I'd be afraid to move my truck that way!!! If you did connect a wdh also, could you set it up to limit the sag on the rear end when you dumped the air? I would almost think about running around town without the air in (rather than dumping each corner) and then using the air for stability during higher speed towing...


Hey Nathan. The wheel bearings will wear no more than the trailer's wheel bearings. There are rated for 2000lbs. The axle is made from 1&1/2 ID by 1/4 thick tubing, so it is very stought. You could install the grease zert caps and pump them with grease every now and then if you want. I would grease the wheels bearings, every other year or so or maybe every 15k miles. The hitch can be stored in the garage, so personally I would grease the bearings every winter, for something to do.

The small tires do not wear as well as auto tires. They are 6ply but they do offer an 8 ply tire in this size.. You should get 5000 miles or so out of them if you have the hitch adjusted properly, and make sure when you dump the air, there is no weight on them. Personally I like the little tires because they are cheap, 30-35 bucks each rim and all.. And by using the little tires it is almost impossible to hit them with the tongue.. The bigger the tire beyond these tires, and you will have to worry more about hitting the tires with the tongue in very tight turns.. The hitch is way over built so in most circumstances, you are not going to damage the hitch, but in worst case could bend the axle, or swingarm mounts, or possibly even the hitch on the truck.. I have tested the hitch with 4.80 x 8 tires which are 16 inches tall. 5.70 x 8 which are 18 inches tall, 175/50/13 tires which are 20 inches tall, 145 R 12 tires which are 21.5 inches tall. They all worked well. The hitch has a standard reciever height of 23-24 inches built in. If you lower the tire height, you will also lower the reciever height.. If you go to taller tires you will also raise the reciever height. I did not want to go past 18 inches of hitch extension, so this limits me on the tire choice. You can only go so far forward to have a good swing with the swingarm and still have the hitch fit any vehicle. Most trailers have a 6-800lb tongue weight. Using these tires with this hitch would be fine, as you would be less than half of there rating. This hitch is designed to not even break a sweat with a 800lb tongue load..

The reason for the bump stops you see in the pics. When dumped you should have an air gap between the bump stop and axle. If you have an air gap when dumped there is no weight on the tires. If the bump stops are riding on the axle, then you would need to move the L shank down more, so as to lift the main part of the hitch up.

It gives a reciever height of 23-24 inches for your trailer. You can use anothe L shank in the reciever to adjust the ball height for your trailer, or can just use a ball mount like I do.

You would be fine running around town in the dump mode. The main reason for the bump stops are to keep from allowing the mounting plates of the air bag from crashing together. The air bag does have its own bumpstop inside, but to be safe, I use my own bump stops too. The ride is pretty rough when the bag is dumped though, so I would run a few pounds of pressure in the bag to allow a bit of suspension back there.

You could also still tighten the wd bars down. It wont ride as well, as with the bars left loose, as you will have more bounce. But this could be done. if the bars are cranked very tight it could throw off the good ride charcteristcs of the hitch. I have been testing this hitch with a 1000 lb draw tite wd hitch but I never really crank down the bars. I leave the hitch/ball angle straight up and just put light tension on them.

Lets say the hitch is supporting 500lbs with the bars cranked down. The air bag pressure would be say 30 psi.. You hit a hard bump. The weight would increase to say 1000 lbs for a second. The bag can only handle 500lbs, so the bag would tend to bounce more like a basketball.

Lets say you are supporting the full amount of hitch weight, and lets say that is 800lbs. Your pressure would be 35-40 psi. You hit the same bump. The weight increases to 1000 lbs. The bag can counter the weight much better because you would have more pressure to start with.

This is the problem I have never liked when using wd bars. When the bars are cranked down, the rig looks better, and rides better over smooth roads.. But when the road gets rough the w/d hitch weight will have sharper weight spikes applied to the tow vehicle than without bars at all.. This is why you see rigs going down the road bouncing when there wd bars are cranked tight.. When hitting a bump, you will still have the same amount of weight being applied to the tow vehicle as you would without the bars at certain times.

This is the downfall of any w/d hitch system.. Again that sharp down force of weight needs a place to go other than being put thru your tow vehicle.. This is why this hitch works so well... The weight now has a place to go, and it can go to somewhere other than your truck or trailer.

Hope this made any sense.. lol

Carey


----------



## PDX_Doug

Mgonzo2u said:


> Carey,
> 
> Being in the insurance business, I can only suggest you load up on as much Product Liability insurance as you possibly can to protect yourself in this very litigious society we live in.


Absolutely!

Good suggestion about testing with one blown tire as well. Speaking of which, what is the speed rating of those little tires? Most of the ones I've seen are not really designed for sustained freeway speeds.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Carey

D1Boz said:


> What do you expect would happen if one of those little tires blew out running down the road??? Not trying to knock it, just curious as to what might happen. Was wondering if you might have tried flatting one tire and testing it to see if it would hold up on one tire to pull over safely or would throw the truck around. That's the only concern I would have being that the hitch has the weight on those tires and not on the truck. It's a little different than the semi because they have the duel wheels and that usually leaves one wheel to help support it to pull over. What do you think???
> 
> Congrats and Good Luck on your invention!!!!


Nothing at all happens... Been there done that.. You know that is a great idea for a video! I'll have to do that..

You can defiantly feel it, but what you feel is some weight being transferred back to the truck.. There is no loss of control or anything like that.. It doesnt hurt the hitch what so ever.. I made the thing to where it is strong enough to handle that.

There is no worry of a wreck, you just feel a bit of weight applied back to the truck..

Reason. The hitch only has a capability of 2000lbs. The rear axle of any tow vehicle that can move a trailer with a 2000lb tongue weight weighs at minimum 3000 lbs. When there is a sudden loss of weight from this hitch, like a blown tire, the weight simply goes to the rear axle making it weigh more, and in turn allowing you to keep control of what has happened.

Its honestly like nothing happens.. You just feel a weight transfer..

My Semi uses those new Michelin X one's.. Those are those big fat single tires we see all the time.. When one of those go down, that corner hits the ground.. It has been well proven that loosing just one corner of the axle will not hurt the handling of a semi..

Carey


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## Carey

PDX_Doug said:


> Carey,
> 
> Being in the insurance business, I can only suggest you load up on as much Product Liability insurance as you possibly can to protect yourself in this very litigious society we live in.


Absolutely!

Good suggestion about testing with one blown tire as well. Speaking of which, what is the speed rating of those little tires? Most of the ones I've seen are not really designed for sustained freeway speeds.

Happy Trails,
Doug
[/quote]

These have the same speed rating as our trailer tires... 65mph at full pressure and at full weight rating..

Even with my 1200 tongue weight I am not even near full weight rating.. So in all actualality you can drive as fast as you have the &&^^ for.. Wont hurt a thing..

These lil tires have a bad rap, as we see em blown pretty often... Most times the reasons are the same as why our trailer tires blow up...

They are low on pressure, and are pushing the weights limits of the tires ratings..

90% of people who will use this thing will be users that have 1000lb hitch weights.. The tires can handle 2000...

Its not an issue when you are only running a tire at half its weight rating..

Carey


----------



## Carey

Mgonzo2u said:


> Carey,
> 
> Looks like a great idea. From what I've been reading, if I would've had one of these, I wouldn't of had to get rid of my 1/2 ton silverado. The more I read from this and other posts, I now believe the tongue weight was what was killing the truck. Like everyone says, if you don't feel safe, what's the fun. Give me a year or two, and I might be ready to purchase one these. It took alot to persuade the dw to upgrade to the equalizer from the reese hitch. I'll have to ease her into this one. Once again, looks great, good luck and in my opinion, this will take off good. Make sure you get all your patents taken care of. I wouldn't want to see you go through all this work and investing for someone to come by and take all the credit (and money) from you.
> 
> Mike


No problem.. lol I hear ya.

My lawyer tells me to not worry and go for it. I will be in patent pending for 3 years, till an actual number is assigned. Until then anyone could make and sell a model just like this. Nothing I can do till I have a number in hand. Its up to the patent office to tell who had the idea first.

You have to do your own police work, and cant do much till you have your number in hand. At that point if someone is infringing you, then you have as much ammo as you can get, which in this world is not much..

In this world nothing is safe. But like my lawyer said, just dont worry and leave those details to me.

I'm not looking to become some mogul here. I'm just looking to make an honest living, and get out of my semi.. Time will tell if all that comes true... I can say this has been an amazing ride so far, and incredibly expensive too. lol

Most all things that work well get copied, not much you can do about that. This can be made diferently than what is present, and not much I could do about it... But I have no problem with that and fully expect it.

If these devices become an industry standard, many will jump in. But many campers are sold per year, and its forcast that those number will go up. There will be room for all of us..

One main reason to get a patent is to give your company value. Creditors tend to only loan on assets, and a company with a patent is a much better risk than a company with no patent.

Thanks for the good words all..

Carey
[/quote]

Carey,

Being in the insurance business, I can only suggest you load up on as much Product Liability insurance as you possibly can to protect yourself in this very litigious society we live in.
[/quote]

So what are you saying here... Would your insurance company write me a policy on liability?

As far as I know insurance companies never write liabilty insurance for companies/corporations products.. They only write liablity insurance on manufacturer defects..

Who would write a general liability policy.. Knowone!

I have done my homework enough that I feel this device will preform to way over people expectations.. Thats all I can do...

You are not going to get a general liability policy for this or any other manufactured item in this country.

You are in the insurance biz............. YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT!!!

My competition has been in business for quite a few years now. They havent had a bit of liability problems.. Thats all I can go on.. I am not scared, I have total confidence in what this thing can do for the safety of towing.. I have no worrries... If I did i wouldnt be here writing...

By the way... lol...... My mom and Dad had there own insurance agency for 40 ok 36 years... My dad also sold for a A+ insurance carrier.. Out of 1200 salesmen he was ranked in the top 10 year after year.. He had one of the biggest territories in the country.. They retired at 55 from Colorado, sold everything.. Moved to the Gulf... Bought a house on the water. Go fishing all the time.. Drive there boat right up to there back yard...

Yea they got milk! but I am totally doing this on my own.. lol

The kicker! His perfection was selling to large manufacturing companies and corporations.. The insurance he sold them was for if one of there employees made a bad weld, or a bad part, his insurance would cover those damages caused by that bad weld, or badly made part.. But nothing more!

But as far as selling those companies a general liability policy for there products, no never.. I never knew such a policy existed..

Companies or Corporations cover there own mistakes on engineering defects...... Insurance companies cover companies and corporations for there defectively made products, only from there employees mistakes.. NOTHING MORE!

Carey


----------



## Carey

I was over at RV Supply buying L shanks and found this...

Here is a Great Deal on The Trailer Toad... Best price I have ever seen.CLICK

This is my competition. It must be used a wd hitch to keep the unit from flipping over as it hinges when a trailer is attached.. This unit is really starting to make its own way.. It is getting pretty big kudos from the public.

Robin Hitch bought the rights to the patent from the inventor..

This is the number one rated weight bearing hitch at present.. It sells for 2649.00 and still needs a wd hitch used after buying it. So if you dont have one youll have to buy that also.

It is well known that the tongue hits the tires on this unit.. The manufactuer says dont worry about, it wont hurt anything.

When backing you have to get the steerable axle lined up, then drop a pin thru it to keep it from steering. If you dont use the pin, the axle would turn the wrong way while backing, doing damage to the Trailer Toad.. Not saying this unit is bad, but there are two or more ways to skin this cat..

I'm not the first, I only have done my best to improve upon what is already out there... There will be someone improve upon what I have done if i am successful. Thats ok, thats what makes the world a fun place to live!

Carey


----------



## Carey

collinsfam_tx said:


> I just saw this thread last night and wanted to chime in since I have driven this rig and pulled a trailer with it. Sorry for the late response Carey - been busy with xmas stuff over the weekend
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The trailer was Carey's 23KRS and it was heavily loaded in the cargo area. Several dirt bikes, a big tool box loaded down, bunch of other stuff. I don't know how much it all weighed so just a guess here - 1100lbs? The truck was his dodge ram 1500 with the hemi. The hitch was the "revision 2" Hitch Hog with the auto tires on it - just as you see it in the pictures here.
> 
> I was able to drive the rig and also Carey took me for a spin to demonstrate its' performance - part of which was a low-speed circuit with me riding in the bed watching the hitch work.
> 
> Towing impressions: It does not feel like what you are familiar with. It is disconcerting at first because of that. You do not get any of the sensations you may be familiar with with the exception that you can feel the weight behind the truck. The tow vechicle feels more stable going down the road. It is hard to explain this in words for sure. The best way I can explain it is that if you imagine a dynamic force pulling backwards on the truck like if you had some sort of parachute back there but no trailer. So if your tow vehicle was going down the road with nothing hitched up to it...but you had something back there like that parachute that was providing a force your vehicle was pulling against - it feels like that. So - there is no motion imparted to the truck from whatever the trailer is doing. I would say "it is very smooth" but it is more accurate to say that your tow vehicle feels like your tow vehicle when it is not towing. That is the creepy thing about it. The stability and smoothness the hitch imparts is unfamiliar territory - at least to me and what I am familiar with. The bizarre thing is that what made me feel so uncomfortable at first was the fact that the stability was so good - you don't "feel" the bounces, wiggling and anything else other than the "pull" of the weight. The absence of those things, after a few miles, was very appealing to say the least.
> 
> Now I am not saying anything about how your rig pulls - I am just saying how his felt as compared to mine - that is all I can honestly give testimony too.
> 
> Now Carey also took me for a ride and to demonstrate how it performs - he did some things that I would never do and put us in situations that I try to avoid. I won't get into details but he made me nervous at first and I slowly relaxed as what I know to be "sway imparting", "truck buffet" or other similar towing situations did not have the expected effect. No white knuckles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to run for now - hope to post more later - just real dadgum busy lately with a new job and all. I want to give Carey a big congrats on getting this far - we are thrilled for you and your family and wish the best for all of you.
> 
> Curtis


No problem Curtis! I totally understand!

I'm taking a few days off work.. Since my Lawyer told me it was ok to talk about.. (Finally in patent pending status!) I figured since I have a lil spare time, better let the cat out of the bag.. I knew I was in for a couple days of sitting here commenting on this subject when I posted this thread.. I knew you'd be around sometime... No Biggie!

Anyhow you guys take care and have a really great holiday! Thanks for the good words!!

I seen you puckering when we went around that semi truck... lol been wanting to say that!.. lol Sorry if I scared ya! Just was showing off a lil<wink>

Carey


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## Carey

By golly Rv Supply even stocks the air hitch... Only problem with this unit is its missing a set of wheels. Click

Carey


----------



## D1Boz

Thanks Carey for explaining what you have learned. Good Luck selling them!!!!! wish you the best.


----------



## PDX_Doug

Carey,

I am certainly not an expert on insurance, but it is my understanding that companies can, and regularly do, buy general liability 'umbrella' policies to protect themselves.

I have also been in business long enough to know this: You will be sued. Period... It's gonna happen. It doesn't matter if the suit is valid or not, if somebody has an accident, and your hitch is on any vehicle involved, you will find lawyers knocking at your door (I would also opine that since your product is pretty unconventional, it will make it an easy target). I can give you a perfect example of what I am talking about...

Years ago, I was employed as a designer for a major playground equipment manufacturer. It came to pass one day, that a family was picnicking in a city park in the town they lived in. The kids headed off to the playground to play - out of site of the parents I might add. In the course of their play, one of them fell off a piece of equipment and broke an arm. It should also be noted that the equipment they where playing on, was not even ours. However, since the park did include equipment manufactured by us, we were sued along with the manufacturers of every piece of equipment in the park, the city and even (I love this), the people that lived across the street and had a clear view of the playground (They should have been keeping an eye on the children!). It seems the only people not responsible where the parents that could not be bothered to look after their own children.

The resulting actions where 'Exploratory suits'. They were suits obviously without merit, but thrown out there to see who would settle, just to make them go away. In our case we didn't just settle, and easily won our case, but not before expending a great deal of time and money in the process.

The point is, no matter how confident you are in your product. No matter how sure you are of it's abilities. Someone, sometime, is going to sue you over it, and you better have either some good protection, or a large bank account when they do. Win or not, it's going to cost you a lot of money.

Just food for thought.

Happy Trails,
Doug


----------



## Rubrhammer

Carey,
First let me say that your approach to this design is very well thought out. It must have been a bear keeping this to yourself through the developement. Have you beeen innundated with PMs yet? 
I'd like to respond to this suggestion "All you need is a Magnetic limit switch on the hitch and camper tongue. When it turns to far it will lower the pressure automatically. When it goes straight it will raise it back." This type of feature could cause the air to dump when you would need it most if the trailer were to sway behind the hitch at speed. Another thing is that you would want to dump the air prior to making the turn which I think was mentioned in an earlier post.
Good job.
Bob


----------



## Carey

PDX_Doug said:


> Carey,
> 
> I am certainly not an expert on insurance, but it is my understanding that companies can, and regularly do, buy general liability 'umbrella' policies to protect themselves.
> 
> I have also been in business long enough to know this: You will be sued. Period... It's gonna happen. It doesn't matter if the suit is valid or not, if somebody has an accident, and your hitch is on any vehicle involved, you will find lawyers knocking at your door (I would also opine that since your product is pretty unconventional, it will make it an easy target). I can give you a perfect example of what I am talking about...
> 
> Years ago, I was employed as a designer for a major playground equipment manufacturer. It came to pass one day, that a family was picnicking in a city park in the town they lived in. The kids headed off to the playground to play - out of site of the parents I might add. In the course of their play, one of them fell off a piece of equipment and broke an arm. It should also be noted that the equipment they where playing on, was not even ours. However, since the park did include equipment manufactured by us, we were sued along with the manufacturers of every piece of equipment in the park, the city and even (I love this), the people that lived across the street and had a clear view of the playground (They should have been keeping an eye on the children!). It seems the only people not responsible where the parents that could not be bothered to look after their own children.
> 
> The resulting actions where 'Exploratory suits'. They were suits obviously without merit, but thrown out there to see who would settle, just to make them go away. In our case we didn't just settle, and easily won our case, but not before expending a great deal of time and money in the process.
> 
> The point is, no matter how confident you are in your product. No matter how sure you are of it's abilities. Someone, sometime, is going to sue you over it, and you better have either some good protection, or a large bank account when they do. Win or not, it's going to cost you a lot of money.
> 
> Just food for thought.
> 
> Happy Trails,
> Doug


Every company who makes a product in this country has this problem... My dad and I have had several long talks about this..

For one, product liability insurance was something that used to be fairly easy to get.. My dad had some very large accounts in his career. He specialized in manufacturing plants and machine shops. Colorado Springs is one of the high tech cities. Many computer/sensitive electronics companies have operations here, and so do many close tolerance machine shops which do business for the military, the medical field, aviation, outer space(rockets and satelites), and the automakers... My dad used to sell them all product liability insurance from the late 70's up until the early 90's... He had every plant in Colorado Springs.. He learned the good risks from the bad risks.

At that time in the 90's the insurance companies started to get very finicky about offering product liability insurance.. My dad lost most of his accounts thru the early part of the 90's.. Not because of the companies, but because he could no longer find a carrier for them.. He then had to move more towards personal insurance until he retired in 1998.

At this time in our world, product liability, or balloon policies, are a thing of the past even for large manufacturung companies.. It hasnt been available to machine/welding shops for over 10 years now.
Yes we do live in a world where it makes it tough for all manufacturers, makers, builders, etc, etc.. There has never been a time in history where the makers are so responsible.

In this world all you can do is make a good product and hope for the best.. If you could buy any form of insurance for something like this, the price would be astronomical in this world, same as it is for any other maker.. But the thing is, it isnt even available anymore..

I have spent a good amount of hours researching this problem. Here is what I have learned. If someone misuses this product, or has a wreck with it, yes they can try to sue, yes it will cost me a few bucks for lawyers.. Am I gonna loose......... It is a remote possibility.. Am I gonna worry. HELL NO!

Now if my product has a failure, or a component breaks causing an accident then I am liable, and yes that would force me to close my business the same as it would force any small business to close..
I would loose it all..

Yes this is a high liability product... But if you sit down and think, we use products every day that are considered a high risk for the manufacturer to build..

Why do you think so many products are being manufacturered off shore...... This is one of the reasons!

But we now live in a world where people can sue you for anything.... But we also now live in a world where its is much harder to get anything for your loses.

My dad has spent maybe 10 hours behind the wheel of my truck. I have had him put this hitch thru many of the same tests as mine.

Here is what he has said. He said, Carey this is unbelievable what your little device does.. When people use this thing they will fall in love with it, simple as that.. Yes your product is a risk for you to build.. He said so are many of the products that are still made in this country. BUT like he said, when people love a product they respect the product and tend to guard the product.. He said when people love a product they tend to follow the directions and instructions to the letter... He said this is what you have going for you. When people feel this way, a high risk product becomes much lower of a liability for its manufacturer..

He said, Carey YOUR job is to make the product strong. Overbuild the hell out of it. Make it unbreakable. Make the product simple, easy to understand, easy to use, and make the product a piece of equipment that the user enjoys, trusts, respects, and feels proud to own. He said there seems to be few great ideas left in this world... What you have here is one of those ideas!

So I listened.... I followed his words the very best I could, as I knew he had the experience and knowledge about high risk products..

I will tell you all I know the risks, I know what can happen when a product fails. Am I worried... Not at all!

When people buy this device I know for a fact that that they will never go back to towing with the products they used to use. I feel I have built a product that meets all of my dads requirements and expectations. He has the experience to know a good thing when he sees it... I respect that. He has told me again and again.. Get this thing out there!!! Dont worry about all that insurance stuff cause you are in the same boat as everyone else in this country... JUST GET IT OUT THERE... Be patient.. They will come!

I say why worry about things you cant change..

I can tell you I am sick of seeing accidents with RV's.. I can tell you the present way we tow a trailer is not 100% safe. I will tell you that there will be far fewer accidents if people are using these devices, comparred to the devices we have at present.

Carey


----------



## Carey

Rubrhammer said:


> Carey,
> First let me say that your approach to this design is very well thought out. It must have been a bear keeping this to yourself through the developement. Have you beeen innundated with PMs yet?
> I'd like to respond to this suggestion "All you need is a Magnetic limit switch on the hitch and camper tongue. When it turns to far it will lower the pressure automatically. When it goes straight it will raise it back." This type of feature could cause the air to dump when you would need it most if the trailer were to sway behind the hitch at speed. Another thing is that you would want to dump the air prior to making the turn which I think was mentioned in an earlier post.
> Good job.
> Bob


I investigated that idea.... Wont work.. The problem is, the air needs dumped BEFORE you begin to turn.. Not while you are turning, the drag on the tires is already being done once you start into the turn... The weight needs removed before the turn.. A magnetic limit switch cannot do this.. even an optical sensor cannot do this..

I have spent many hours on that subject, same as many trucking companies.. There is really nothing out there that can predict when a person is about to make a turn.. This is why I am stuck with a switch.

carey


----------



## N7OQ

PDX_Doug said:


> Carey,
> 
> I am certainly not an expert on insurance, but it is my understanding that companies can, and regularly do, buy general liability 'umbrella' policies to protect themselves.
> 
> I have also been in business long enough to know this: You will be sued. Period... It's gonna happen. It doesn't matter if the suit is valid or not, if somebody has an accident, and your hitch is on any vehicle involved, you will find lawyers knocking at your door (I would also opine that since your product is pretty unconventional, it will make it an easy target). I can give you a perfect example of what I am talking about...
> 
> Years ago, I was employed as a designer for a major playground equipment manufacturer. It came to pass one day, that a family was picnicking in a city park in the town they lived in. The kids headed off to the playground to play - out of site of the parents I might add. In the course of their play, one of them fell off a piece of equipment and broke an arm. It should also be noted that the equipment they where playing on, was not even ours. However, since the park did include equipment manufactured by us, we were sued along with the manufacturers of every piece of equipment in the park, the city and even (I love this), the people that lived across the street and had a clear view of the playground (They should have been keeping an eye on the children!). It seems the only people not responsible where the parents that could not be bothered to look after their own children.
> 
> The resulting actions where 'Exploratory suits'. They were suits obviously without merit, but thrown out there to see who would settle, just to make them go away. In our case we didn't just settle, and easily won our case, but not before expending a great deal of time and money in the process.
> 
> The point is, no matter how confident you are in your product. No matter how sure you are of it's abilities. Someone, sometime, is going to sue you over it, and you better have either some good protection, or a large bank account when they do. Win or not, it's going to cost you a lot of money.
> 
> Just food for thought.
> 
> Happy Trails,
> Doug


We really need to find a way to make it really hard to sue someone without substantial proof and those who are found guilty of a frivolous law suits should pay dearly like prison time. I know people who make a living on law suits, it makes me sick.


----------



## Carey

Rubrhammer said:


> Carey,
> First let me say that your approach to this design is very well thought out. It must have been a bear keeping this to yourself through the developement. Have you beeen innundated with PMs yet?
> I'd like to respond to this suggestion "All you need is a Magnetic limit switch on the hitch and camper tongue. When it turns to far it will lower the pressure automatically. When it goes straight it will raise it back." This type of feature could cause the air to dump when you would need it most if the trailer were to sway behind the hitch at speed. Another thing is that you would want to dump the air prior to making the turn which I think was mentioned in an earlier post.
> Good job.
> Bob


Missed that part sorry.. If you were to allow the air to dump at the time of sway, you are going to wreck.. 
This device prevents sway or movement of the trailer from effecting the tow vehicle.. 
Edit... Because of that sway is much harder to happen.

A bad sway condition throws the rear of the tow vehicle out of wack as bad as the trailer... This is what causes a person to lose control in these situations.

In a bad sway condition, the trailer forces the rear axle of the tow vehicle to become the trailer steering axle.. The driver has a very hard time overcoming this situation, because the front axle is the tow vehicle steer axle. The tow vehicle becomes two steering axles.. One for the truck, one for the trailer.

My hitch now becomes the steer axle for the trailer. Because of this, the driver can overcome a sway condition before it happens.. This hitch forces the trailer to now have to move this axle and the rear axle to make the tow vehicle loose control.. It makes the tow vehicle in command of the trailer.

This hitch forces the rear axle and the hitch's wheels to become one long axle. They are 3 - 4 feet apart. This long spread of two axles makes towing much safer and predictable.

By adding another ground contact that does not steer at the point of hinge, the trailer has a very hard time commanding the tow vehicle reguardless of size either way.

The worst thing you would want to do is dump the air under a hard sway condition. This would put you back to the same place as you are now.

Carey


----------



## Carey

N7OQ said:


> Carey,
> 
> I am certainly not an expert on insurance, but it is my understanding that companies can, and regularly do, buy general liability 'umbrella' policies to protect themselves.
> 
> I have also been in business long enough to know this: You will be sued. Period... It's gonna happen. It doesn't matter if the suit is valid or not, if somebody has an accident, and your hitch is on any vehicle involved, you will find lawyers knocking at your door (I would also opine that since your product is pretty unconventional, it will make it an easy target). I can give you a perfect example of what I am talking about...
> 
> Years ago, I was employed as a designer for a major playground equipment manufacturer. It came to pass one day, that a family was picnicking in a city park in the town they lived in. The kids headed off to the playground to play - out of site of the parents I might add. In the course of their play, one of them fell off a piece of equipment and broke an arm. It should also be noted that the equipment they where playing on, was not even ours. However, since the park did include equipment manufactured by us, we were sued along with the manufacturers of every piece of equipment in the park, the city and even (I love this), the people that lived across the street and had a clear view of the playground (They should have been keeping an eye on the children!). It seems the only people not responsible where the parents that could not be bothered to look after their own children.
> 
> The resulting actions where 'Exploratory suits'. They were suits obviously without merit, but thrown out there to see who would settle, just to make them go away. In our case we didn't just settle, and easily won our case, but not before expending a great deal of time and money in the process.
> 
> The point is, no matter how confident you are in your product. No matter how sure you are of it's abilities. Someone, sometime, is going to sue you over it, and you better have either some good protection, or a large bank account when they do. Win or not, it's going to cost you a lot of money.
> 
> Just food for thought.
> 
> Happy Trails,
> Doug


We really need to find a way to make it really hard to sue someone without substantial proof and those who are found guilty of a frivolous law suits should pay dearly like prison time. I know people who make a living on law suits, it makes me sick.
[/quote]

I do agree with you Bill!
Wish we could change things.. just makes everything more expensive.

Carey


----------



## Carey

I know some are concerned on the need to flip a switch when turning so here is my explanation.

If you google the word "Safety Hitch" you will see a hitch that is made for goose necks. But his device locks the hitches wheels above 25 mph.. Below that they are steerable..

But the problem is his hitch's price starts at around 7000 dollars... Goes up over 10000 dollars

I am trying to build a hitch that works as well or better than the others that is cheaper or competively priced with the others.. Its not that it cant be done, its that it cant be done on the cheap... .. For every buck the price goes up limits who can buy it..

If the user switches to 13 inch auto tires and doesnt dump the air, the tires will still last a good amount of miles.. Longer than when dumping 8 inch tires. My problem is if I sell a 13 inch tire with the hitch, some people will hit the tires with the tongue. I am stuck offering the small 5.70 x 8 inch tires to be guaranteed that the user never hits the tires..

Trust me I have spent entire weeks without sleep pondering on this.. lol

What the user decides to use tire wise is up to them, not me.. You know, the liability thing... If the user uses a 10 inch L shank for there final ball mount, then they could use 13 inch tires succesfully. If the user uses a ball mount like I do, the 13 inch tire will not work.. I have to offer it so a person can use a short ball mount like I have pictured and still have them safe while turning.

If the user hits the tires and either bends the my hitch, breaks, or damages it. i have just set my self up for the for sure lawsuit doug mentioned. I also have to be sure the user will not damage there reciever hitch from tongue/tire mishap, as you all know i would become liable for the damage to there hitch.

All I can do is make the device usable to where it wont wear tires too bad with the 8 inch version.. By dumping the air, this makes it so people can run an 8 inch tire succesfully... But for those that want can move there ball back a bit more and use 13 inch tires and not dump the air.

I have studied and studied and feel that going past 18 inches(hitch pin eye to hitch pin eye) with a self supporting hitch is pushing the envelope. I am comfortable at 17 inches for my liability. So I am limited on my choice of tire that I know will fit everyone.

I have investigated using a hydralic pump, and piston rod for steering. You could lock and unlock this as you pleased, or set it up just as the safety hitch does on speed.. problem, just a 12 volt hydro pump costs a bunch, let alone a ram cylinder.

I am trying to make this device as cheap as posible, but will mention that the user may go to a low profile 13 inch tire for better tire wear in my instuctions, but also say, they will have to use a L shank to use the 13 inch tires.. They will also have to send me a picture of there combo in full turn if they want a warranty.. The hitch will have no warranty if the user changes tire size without a follow up with me..

Right now you can turn till the truck hits the camper and not hit the tires... That where I have to be to be liable safe.

If you have any ideas that will work that costs maybe 50 dollars to fix the problem of tire drag, I'm all ears..

I am trying to keep this as cheap as possible so this limits me on what I can do except a manual switch. At least I am giving the user a way out to not wear his tires, as my competition leaves there users with no choice but to drag the tires on corners.. I am offering a way to still gain the benefit of a non steerable tag axle, and am also offering a way to reduce tire wear, while still being as cheap or cheaper then they are. Sure there are ways around this.. But from what I have found those ways are expensive. I am also offering a way to back up without needing to get out, line up an axle and drop a pin thru it.. You can simply flip a switch, and make a tight turn while backing and have no worries..

I guess I have assumed that you all know what is out there..

The Hell yea is a non steerable tag axle, that offers no way to release the weight on the tire. Does it shred the tires? Hell Yea!

The Trailer Toad is a steerable tag axle, that hits the tires with the tongue on turns, but its claimed no damage will happen.. many users have complained that the tires do not turn enough, and they still drag the tires. The tires are built on an axle that swings, so its not true steering.. It would be better to use a ball joint and double wishbone method.. But that would make the price into the 4 grand range instead of 3 grand. When backing up must get the swinging axle straight and drop a pin thru it, and then drag the tires while backing.

The Tuff Tow uses a shopping cart dolly device that fits into the tongue of the trailer. It also steers, but again must be locked to allow backing.. Users have complained it is a pain in the but to get the wheels line up to ensure the lock mechanism locks in.. The tuff tow drags tires when backing. Doesnt fit rv's, only fits trailers with open tongues.

The other few are priced at 6000 dollars and up.. No need to compare mine with theres, as i am more than half there price cheaper.. 6000 dollar hitch buddy has no steerable tires, drag em every corner.. The Safety Hitch doeas it all for price of 7 grand+..

So mine comparred to theres is by far easier to use. you get the benefits of a non steerable tag, with ease of turning and backing with a simple flip of a switch...

Carey


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## Dreamtimers

I've learned a lot reading all the posts. A couple of questions come to mind & I'd like to hear your thoughts.

1) Have you considered using an interposing relay for control of the compressor/dump function. This allows the contact points, _(which will see a lot of use),_ to be heavier and easier to replace. It also reduces the number and size of wires which must be run through the firewall, and reduces the cost of the switch, (spst vs dpst and the contact rating could be lower). The second thing it does is to allow different, or even multiple switches to be used, _(wait there is a reason for this). _Likely most people are using auto. trans. in their TV, _(long time since I've seen a manual shift anyway). _







That leaves the left foot with nothing to do. Since flipping the switch requires the driver to remove a hand from the wheel and, _(depending on placement of the dump switch),_ look away from the road or change position, _(lean forward), _twice, perhaps a momentary contact foot switch in about the position of the old 'floorboard headlight dimmer switch'. This would allow you to use the foot sw. for infrequent turns while driving and the toggle if you want to keep pressure off for a while such as going through a town/gas station/etc..

2) What is the duty cycle on the dump valve?

Thanks for your time in answering this and BEST of LUCK with your venture.

Dave


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## Carey

Dreamtimers said:


> I've learned a lot reading all the posts. A couple of questions come to mind & I'd like to hear your thoughts.
> 
> 1) Have you considered using an interposing relay for control of the compressor/dump function. This allows the contact points, _(which will see a lot of use),_ to be heavier and easier to replace. It also reduces the number and size of wires which must be run through the firewall, and reduces the cost of the switch, (spst vs dpst and the contact rating could be lower). The second thing it does is to allow different, or even multiple switches to be used, _(wait there is a reason for this). _Likely most people are using auto. trans. in their TV, _(long time since I've seen a manual shift anyway). _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That leaves the left foot with nothing to do. Since flipping the switch requires the driver to remove a hand from the wheel and, _(depending on placement of the dump switch),_ look away from the road or change position, _(lean forward), _twice, perhaps a momentary contact foot switch in about the position of the old 'floorboard headlight dimmer switch'. This would allow you to use the foot sw. for infrequent turns while driving and the toggle if you want to keep pressure off for a while such as going through a town/gas station/etc..
> 
> 2) What is the duty cycle on the dump valve?
> 
> Thanks for your time in answering this and BEST of LUCK with your venture.
> 
> Dave


I will check into the interposing relay. I have heard of them.

The relay I'm using is rated for 40 amps, the compressor pulls 17 amps. I pay 1 dollar for them(honestly) from the air bag supply warehouse. I was planning on sending a spare with it.. I am going to a plug for the relay that plugs and unplugs all of the wires at once.. I use a sheetmetal screw to attach the relay.. It is very simple to replace. I have at least 1000 turns on the relay in my truck.. I have spent entire weekends doing nothing but making left and right turns in the city.. I have yet to replace it since i have started this project. Yes the contacts are the first to go, but all I can say is I really dont think that we will have a problem. The contacts in the relay I'm using are almost as big as the old chevy style point contacts.. These relay's are specd just for air system use. As anyone who uses a true air bag suspension cycles it all the time..

My relay is more than twice rated I really dont feel we are going to have any trouble.. Let me see what I can do on that one..

On the foot switch, I'd love to do that.. i figured you guys would have laughed me out of here though, so i didnt go that way. Maybe people would actually prefer a foot switch versus a switch on the dash..

The switch I am using is a double lighted 3 way rocker from the marine field.. I found a beautiful switch, that is marked "air" it is also double lit. The problem is the guy custom builds them to order and they are very hard to get, so I have went back to the commercially available marine switch..

A dimmer switch would work fine in combo with switch on the dash. The switch on the dash would turn the whole system on or off... The dimmer switch is a 2 way switch. I have also seen other foot switches and all I have found are two way switches. But anyway the dimmer would either be compressor or dump. Then turning the unit on and off would come from the actual switch on the dash..

On the wiring, there is only 2 wires running into the cab. One is from the ground on the relay, the other is ground from the dump.. Using grounds reduces the amount of wires to the minimum. The center of the switch is run to the closest solid ground, which can be under the dash. Just two wires need to be run into the cab.

The dump valve is 100% duty cycle. I have left it on for 3 full days at a time on more than one occasion. I called the manufacturer and they told me they can be left on forever. What they are, are Nitrous oxide switching valves. This one is rated for 300 psi. It gets warm to the touch, doesnt use many amps, as even after 3 days the truck would still easilly start. They seam to be a top quality valve. I know that some of the controllers the air bag guys use are over 100 bucks each, but those guys use co2 high pressure bottles for there air supply.. Those systems are based on 600 psi.. My system is based on 200psi.

The air bag I use is a double ply rated at 3500 lbs at 200 psi, the company makes em in a 400 psi rating and a 600 psi rating..

They are meant for slamming, car dancing, and car jumping. They claim they cannot be pulled apart and need no limit straps or bump stops, as the air bag is strong enough to handle itself.

Carey


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## Sayonara

tdvffjohn said:


> Having the compressor on the truck with a holding tank, you could then add air horns between the frame rails like I did. The air horns saved me once on my cross country trip or I would have been side swiped doing 65 mph.
> 
> John


Carey,
I appologize that i have not been able to read all of this yet (i will later tonight) but Congrats to you and your ingenuity !!
About the air... I was looking to install a compressor system w/ tank located between the rails on my F350 for horns, air tools etc. if somebody had this type of setup already on their TV, could they buy the hitch without the compressor and utilize the tank for quicker air supply to the hitch? Thats the biggest thing that concerns me is having to think about airing up/down during turns. But all-in-all, great idea. Looking forward to seeing/using one.


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## Carey

Sayonara said:


> Having the compressor on the truck with a holding tank, you could then add air horns between the frame rails like I did. The air horns saved me once on my cross country trip or I would have been side swiped doing 65 mph.
> 
> John


Carey,
I appologize that i have not been able to read all of this yet (i will later tonight) but Congrats to you and your ingenuity !!
About the air... I was looking to install a compressor system w/ tank located between the rails on my F350 for horns, air tools etc. if somebody had this type of setup already on their TV, could they buy the hitch without the compressor and utilize the tank for quicker air supply to the hitch? Thats the biggest thing that concerns me is having to think about airing up/down during turns. But all-in-all, great idea. Looking forward to seeing/using one.
[/quote]

If you already had a compressor and tank, you could use a controller, which contains a supply valve and a dump valve. When you dumped the air, the supply valve would close first sealing of the air bag circuit, then the dump valve would come on. Then to refill, the dump would close, then the supply valve would open to fill the bag.

If someone already had the compressor, I would just supply the controller instead of the compressor.. They both cost about the same.

Thanks for the good words!

Carey


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## Dirty Dave

Hello,

While reading this topic, I attempted to view the photos which were apparently posed on Photobucket but was unsuccessful.

Can anyone advise what is required to view them?

Thanks


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## Oregon_Camper

Dirty Dave said:


> Hello,
> 
> While reading this topic, I attempted to view the photos which were apparently posed on Photobucket but was unsuccessful.
> 
> Can anyone advise what is required to view them?
> 
> Thanks


A while back Photobucket changed their pricing and sharing policy. Therefore most users did not renew their plans and as such, the images are no longer linked to a valid account. So...they are no long available here.

You could try to contact each person via a PM if you want the image.


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## Dirty Dave

While it appears Carey made the item and posted the photos, I am unsure how to contact him. Can you advise? Thanks


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## Oregon_Camper

Dirty Dave said:


> While it appears Carey made the item and posted the photos, I am unsure how to contact him. Can you advise? Thanks


His Outbacker profile has the following as his email contact. [email protected]


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