# Too Hot In Texas



## Banjo (Aug 1, 2005)

We have a 30FRKS fifth wheel that we bought new in April of 2005. We suffered thru the heat last summer even after having it in the dealer's shop for 50 days. They addressed all the things I have seen on this site. They did accomplish getting more air out the vents but it still only drops the temperature inside down 10 degrees from the outside. At 100 outside we are at 90 inside, and that ain't gonna get it! I am ready to do anything to get this rig working right in the heat. We love every other aspect of the camper and hope we can somehow solve the problem.
I could easily file for a repurchase under the "Lemon Law", but what else would I get? The thing that really burns me (ha) is that when we tried to buy this camper we told the salesman that we wanted 2 A/C units and 50 amp service. He said that was a waste and that the "new Carrier 1500"







was "more than enough".
If you don't camp where it is 100 degrees or more, there is no need to reply to this post. I know it would work in North Dakota. Ghosty, what would you do?

Banjo


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## HTQM (May 31, 2006)

We're not done there now but spent 4 years stationed in Ingleside, next to Corpus Christi. Called my ole' Command Masterchief that retired there to ask about his 5er. It's not an OB but has one A/C (he wasn't sure the size) and his is 34 feet. No issues on cooling the camper to a livable. I know I don't seem to be a lot of help so far but... if you go on line you can pull up some basic A/C trouble shooting guides, one of them is the vent outlet air temp. This will give you a good idea if your A/C is performing up to par. Each "size" unit has a standard outlet air temp if they are working correctly. If yours is below that, after running for a bit, it gives you some ammo to go back to your dealer with. Hopes this helps a little.

Dave


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

The person with the best advice might never camp in 100 degree weather.


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

Banjo

I too live in TEXAS -- and its a mild 103 today --

a couple of things...

I am the king of A/C problems -- (ie i have had everyone of them)

Take off one of the vents.

Put a thermometer in the hole.

Currently it is 103 outside -- the inside of my Outback is 83 degrees and the air blowing through the vents is 43 degrees.

Thatâ€™s, according to Carrier is working hard but well.

But need to know what your inside air vent temp is??? to help you further.

also -- if you don't start cooling early in the morning then you will never catch up -- there has been a tremendous amount written about the Carrier V on this site -- in fact i think i wrote something a year ago that went on for pages -- just can't find it -- sorry --

but the A/C (according to Carrier) at 90 degrees and higher -- is rated at 20 degrees variance -- meaning that when the temp outside is 90 then inside can be 70 -- at 100 it can be 80, etc etc...

Personally i do not understand why you don't do the Lemon Law and get a new trailer..??

Let me know the vent inside temp though... also -- have you worked directly with Carrier -- I did -- much better then most dealers...


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## Above & Beyond (May 20, 2006)

You need to measure the temp of the air going into the return then you measure the air comming out of the nearest vent. The temp differnce needs to be between 14 & 20 degrees if it is more or less then the A/C needs repair. That is how you can tell if it is working properly. If your temp diff is proper then you have insolation problems or air leaks. I hope this helps.


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

Above & Beyond said:


> You need to measure the temp of the air going into the return then you measure the air comming out of the nearest vent. The temp differnce needs to be between 14 & 20 degrees if it is more or less then the A/C needs repair. That is how you can tell if it is working properly. If your temp diff is proper then you have insolation problems or air leaks. I hope this helps.
> [snapback]120920[/snapback]​


Hi. Not diagreeing .. but my inside temp of the trailer is 83 -- myvent temp is 43 -- my outside is 103 -- and carrier says thats right on...

Carrier #1800.673.2431


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## alebar17 (Mar 10, 2006)

Ghosty said:


> Above & Beyond said:
> 
> 
> > You need to measure the temp of the air going into the return then you measure the air comming out of the nearest vent. The temp differnce needs to be between 14 & 20 degrees if it is more or less then the A/C needs repair. That is how you can tell if it is working properly. If your temp diff is proper then you have insolation problems or air leaks. I hope this helps.
> ...


Would it be possible to put a second air conditioner unit, such as a portable one, in the outback? Maybe it would have to be hooked up to a different power supply?

just an idea sunny


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## Above & Beyond (May 20, 2006)

I am a Home Inspector that does not make me an authority on this but let me tell you I have had many classes on this & i could explain exactly how an a/c unit works from start to finish. In fact I have had classes taught by all of the major a/c companies & never have I heard of a 40 degree temp diff as being ok. Now I am not saying that for 100% certantity however if i was a betting man I would bet that I am right. I think what most likely happened is they told you what you wanted to hear. Your outside air temp has nothing to do with weather your unit is working right or not because your overall indoor temp may never get as low as you want because of the insolation factor.

If your indoor air temp was 12 degrees cooler your evaporator coil would be frozen & you cant tell me that 72 degrees is too cold to run the a/c. In fact the standard is not to test the a/c if the temp is below 60 degrees so that you dont damage the unit. I think if you call back and ask a differnt question like what is the normal temp diff they will tell you that it should be between 14 & 20 degrees. If I were you I would be getting that a/c serviced. Just my 2 cents for what ever its worth.


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## Above & Beyond (May 20, 2006)

Yes you could add a second unit You could probably even upgrade your 30amp service to a 50amp service. But before you think about cutting another hole in the roof I would find out if your a/c is working right the less holes in the roof the smaller chance of a leak!


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## Banjo (Aug 1, 2005)

[quote name='Ghosty' date='Jun 12 2006, 05:39 PM']
Banjo

I too live in TEXAS -- and its a mild 103 today --

a couple of things...

I am the king of A/C problems -- (ie i have had everyone of them)

Take off one of the vents.

Put a thermometer in the hole.

Currently it is 103 outside -- the inside of my Outback is 83 degrees and the air blowing through the vents is 43 degrees.

Thatâ€™s, according to Carrier is working hard but well.


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

Above and Beyond..

I agree that 20 degree is the variance that Carrier says ...

but with that...

so what should the temperature INSIDE the roof vent be??? Let me ask this another way -- if i pull off my vent covers .. those little round things -- .. and slide a thermometer inside the opening -- what should the temp be???


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## Banjo (Aug 1, 2005)

OK now I'm really confused. Back to Ghosty's question. The last time I checked it I ran the unit on Max starting at 9:00am. By 4:00PM the outside temp was 90 degrees. The air temp at the vents was 56. The temp inside the camper was 80 degrees. I was using several different thermometers and all were about the same.
We purposly stayed out of the camper until I went in to make my measurements so the door opening and closing would not be a factor.
Banjo


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

Banjo...

not refering you to another site -- but -- check this out --

they have a couple of good suggestions that I did a while back -- check for seal leaks -- put film on windows -- etc etc

RV A/C Hints


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## Above & Beyond (May 20, 2006)

If the temp going in to the unit is 83 comming out it should be between 63 & 69 degrees. I am going to call carrier because I myself am not too smart to learn something new.


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

14 to 20 degrees variance is what Carrier is saying so 10 degres is outside the acceptable range.

I would deal directly with Carrier and get away from the RV Dealer.

53 degrees out of the vent is tooo warm.

I was having virtually the same problem as you were -- dealer tried to fix and fix -- finally Carrier sent entire new unit to my house and had technician come and install it here...

actually the unit is very easy to install and takes minutes -- literally ..

Carrier good company... 

After that I would suggest ading film to the windows...


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## Above & Beyond (May 20, 2006)

I will have to call tommorow as they are closed for the day. I did call my a/c company & he said that he has never heard of a 40 temp diff being proper.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Just to add a little more to the mix...

Building codes in commercial buildings actually limit how effective an A/C unit can be. I can't recall the exact number right now, but it is a temperature differential (inside to outside) of 20-25 degrees Farenheit (I'm thinking its 20 degrees). It does not matter how hot it gets outside, it is against the law to exceed that differential. If it is 90, you can cool to a comfortable 70 degrees. However if it is 110, you can only cool to 90! The reason for this is that the temperature 'shock' to the human body caused by sudden extreme temperature changes is dangerous. This would also explain Carriers explanation of what is acceptable (at both ends).

That said Banjo, your trailer seems awfully large for a single A/C unit. In your environment I would say two units would be preferable. Just look at all the Class 'A' motorhomes with dual A/C. Many of them are not any larger than your Outback.

As far as the Lemon-Law thing, I don't see how this problem in itself would qualify your trailer as a lemon. Ghosty is much better versed on these sorts of things than I, but I just don't see it.









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

...again, where does Doug come up with this stuff? Amazing....


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

Just in case anyone wants to consider adding an additional AC unit, here's an option. I was at Sam's club this past weekend and saw a partable a/c unit fo rsale. It is a free-standing unit similar to one of those air filter units. Don't know the brand or cost, but certainly worth considering as there's no installation involved and you'd only need to take it with you during the hottest times of the year.

One other thing, when its hot I always have a fan going inside to help circulate the cooled air better.

Good luck.

Regards, Glenn


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

I don't know much about air conditioners, and can't add any expert advice, but I can tell you I've camped in 100+ weather and my A/C hasn't had a problem cooling the trailer.....yet!

Mark


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## Above & Beyond (May 20, 2006)

I just called again and had to leave a message. Hopfully they will call back soon.


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## Banjo (Aug 1, 2005)

Ghosty, do you have a ohone number and who would be good to talk to at Carrier.
That might help speed up the process.
Thanks,
Banjo


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Ghosty said:


> Above & Beyond said:
> 
> 
> > You need to measure the temp of the air going into the return then you measure the air comming out of the nearest vent. The temp differnce needs to be between 14 & 20 degrees if it is more or less then the A/C needs repair. That is how you can tell if it is working properly. If your temp diff is proper then you have insolation problems or air leaks. I hope this helps.
> ...


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Mine has a differental of 28 to 32 degrees.


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

mswalt said:


> I don't know much about air conditioners, and can't add any expert advice, but I can tell you I've camped in 100+ weather and my A/C hasn't had a problem cooling the trailer.....yet!
> 
> Mark
> [snapback]121210[/snapback]​


x2

Last year had record temps in Pueblo CO 114* OB in the sun and still low 80's in the TT. It was nice to walk into the OB and feel comfortable again.

Bill.


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## Banjo (Aug 1, 2005)

CamperAndy said:


> Mine has a differental of 28 to 32 degrees.
> [snapback]121420[/snapback]​


ANDY, is that at the vent or the temperature inside the TT?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Banjo said:


> CamperAndy said:
> 
> 
> > Mine has a differental of 28 to 32 degrees.
> ...


Between the AC inlet and the first outlet vent. The last time I checked this the outside air was 85, the intake was 76 and the outlet was 46. This outlet temp was cooler then I expected but I had no icing on the coil so I was not concerned.


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

Banjo said:


> . I know it would work in North Dakota. Ghosty, what would you do?
> 
> Banjo
> [snapback]120905[/snapback]​


Now how did I miss this comment!














sunny


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## Banjo (Aug 1, 2005)

NDJollyMon said:


> Banjo said:
> 
> 
> > . I know it would work in North Dakota. Ghosty, what would you do?
> ...


Nothing against North Dakota....Hope to visit some day.
This weekend I am goint to take my unit apart and see what I can find. If I don't see any problem my next step will be to call Carrier.

Thanks for everyone's great help. This is an amazing web-site!

Banjo


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## JimBo99 (Apr 25, 2006)

Thanks for the question and all the commentary. I haven't tried out my Carrier V in real heat yet, but will this summer at some point. Being retired is some advantage. What we have been doing is the mountain stuff in the summer and Florida, Texas, hotter regions in the winter. We tried Texas and Florida in the summer and probably won't do that again. We live in southern IL where it is hot and muggy in the summer. I rarely campl here when its like that. I hope your issue is resolved soon. Just my two cents.


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## Banjo (Aug 1, 2005)

I give up! I'm having a 15000 Coleman down draft installed on Wednesday.
$950.00 installed. With what I saved on the tires it averages out a good deal, especially if the wife will be comfortable.

Just a note for those still suffering....I popped the round vent covers off to inspect the ductwork inside. I did find one flap of paper peeled loose and partially blocking the air flow into the bedroom. While I had the vents off I noticed that there was an incredible amount of air coming out of the ducts. I have been recording temperatures for the last few days so I checked it with all the vent grilles removed. The temperature dropped about 2 degrees just by removing the grilles.

Next, I found a roll of aluminum insulation that is like bubble wrap with aluminum foil bonded on either side. I cut several pieces and slipped them between the window and the shade. This gave me an additional 3 degree drop. I have learned that the A/C is least efficient when the camper is parked in the direct sun light. The more you can do to shield the rig from the sun, the better it will cool.
Back to the insulation in the windows....I used an infared temp. gun to measure the temps inside. The window without the insulation was 109 F. inside while the insulated glass was 85 F inside. By comparison, the inside wall next to the glass was 82 F.
I went outside and checked it from the outside and found the glass with no insulation was 112 F. and the glass with the reflective insulation inside was 140 F!!
You can see how well this stuff reflects the heat. I found it at Lowe's which is like Home Depot.

Hope this info is useful for you. I'll report back once the additional AC is installed.

Banjo


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## ssalois (Jun 19, 2006)

I have been reading alot about A/c units and what they should or should not do.







I agree with several points everyone has made. I currently carry the State of Texas HVAC license and have work on them for 15 years now. So here is my input.







All of these units you are talking about have the same refrigerant R-22. So as above and beyond stated there should be no diffrence in operation from one to the other. The outside tempeture only effects the temp of the trailer, the A/c's job is to lower this temp.R-22 refrigerant should actually have an 18-22 degree temp drop across evaporator coils. Again most statements are right in this area. I agree if you have a 30 degree temp difference, while good and cold this is not right for a system with r-22 refrigerant.







These systems are nothing more than a condensed version of what we have in our homes. What i am seeing with my trailer versus some i have had in the past is i just dont think insulation is a major factor with everyone trying to meet weight expectation etc...As i do cosider my self an expert in HVAC I hav eseen units do weird things. I have never owned a trailer that cooled well on a 100 degree day. Much less our homes on a 100 degree day. But hey its these 100 degrees that let me afford this new trailer







!!!
I would definitly say with a 10 degree drop you hav ea problem. Call a actual HVAC technician from a local A/C shop to look at it. Most dealers have make ready guys who toy with it till they get the 14- 22 degree drop in a shaded shop then say its all good. You get down the road and .....


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

Banjos insulation information reminds me of another issue we should all keep in mind as well.

Several years ago I was camping in my old TT where the side of the tt where the refrigerator was located was in direct sun most of the day. The frig could not keep up with this heat and did little to coll anything. I didn't make the connection and thought my frig was on the blink. It was only after mentioning it to a crusy ol camping veteran next door and he suggested I put a tarp up to shade the frig vents, etc. Problem solved.

Regards, Glenn


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## Banjo (Aug 1, 2005)

Ghosty, Ive had the AC running for 4 days now and have been charting the various temps. At 95 degrees outside, the coldest it will get inside is 81 and the temp inside the vent closest to the unit is at 53. Even when the inside temp is down around 70 degrees I have never seen the vent temp below 50 degrees.
Banjo


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Sorry to hear you have bought a new AC Banjo, especially if your current unit may still be under warranty. But I do understand your frustration. Hope you are cool with it


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## ssalois (Jun 19, 2006)

Wo







w still going. FYI, I did some research with my Carrier rep here locally and was asking him about these units. Apparently we are not the only ones in discussion. I think Ghostly has figured out htere is a problem so i wont go there. I did find out though that Carrier does want a 28- 32 degreee air exchange in these units. As someone has already said







you can always learn something new.


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## Dark Green Dmax (Aug 2, 2005)

Hey Guys I went through this same thing last year. I added a 2nd unit & now LIFE IS GREAT...cold inside too. I can setup on a 100 degree day & in 45 minutes have my inside temp down in the lower 70s. Check out the details in my postMy Webpage


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## Banjo (Aug 1, 2005)

Thanks, and you are correct sir! The 2nd unit makes all the difference. I took my 5th wheel to a local Camper Capitol and had them install a Coleman 1500 where the rear vent used to be. I expected him to run a seperate wire just for the new unit (which I still think might have been the best way to go) but instead he pulled a wire over to the same 20 amp circuit the microwave is on. This way everything is fed from the one 30 amp shore line. They only charged me $180.00 labor which I thought was reasonable. Total price installed came to $975.00.
We went out this weekend and it was 95 outside with about 70% humidity. We covered the windows that were facing the sun with foil bubble wrap. I turned on just the new Coleman A/C.The frig was on and we had 2 electric fans circulating the air. In about 2 hours the temp inside the camper was down to 78. I then held my breath and turned on the Carrier A/C. No problem. No breakers tripped. About 1 hour later the main 30 amp breaker blew. I put the frig on propane and cranked both A/c's back on. Two hours later the breaker was holding fine and the temp inside was down to 73. It was now 5:00pm an we decided to go drive around. We turned off the Carrier and left the new Coleman running. When we returned about 7:00 (still 95 outside) the temp inside was at 69. That's what I've been looking for!
I'm still going to run ssome tests to see what I can use at the same time and what I can't, but I think for the 4 or 5 months out of the year when it's really hot, we can adapt.
Many thanks to all of you who have provided thoughts and information.
Banjo


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