# Use Of Diesel Lubricants



## sydmeg1012 (Nov 10, 2008)

Ok so I have this new truck (well a 2007, new for me), 2500HD diesel D/A. I've read on some older posts about the use of diesel lubricants at each fillup like Stantadyne, AMSOIL, etc. From what I read the purpose was to provide lubrication that's not provided in the low-sulfur diesel that's in use now, as the older motors were not designed for low-sulfur fuels. My truck has the LMM motor, which I believe was designed with the ULSD diesel in mind. Do I still need to use these lubricants? I'm going to post this question on some Chevy diesel forums as well, but I was curious to see what others with this motor (or newer) are doing.


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

There are some advantages to using a diesel fuel additive. One is to increase the fuel lubricity. The process of removing the sulfur in the new ULSD fuel has made the fuel dry and require a lubricity additive. This additive is not added at the refinery and must be added at the fuel jobber, transfer point. The study below has shown that there have been many documented cases of randomly tested samples of diesel fuel. These tests prove that often times the fuel we purchase is not adequately treated and may therefore contribute to accelerated wear of our fuel delivery systems.

Additionally, a quality diesel fuel additive will contain a cetane improver for better cold & high altitude starts & fuel combustion, injector cleaner and a if needed for your region a anti gelling aditive to prevent diesel fuel from gelling in cold climates.

here is the internet link to an independent diesel fuel additive study.

http://www.natbiogroup.com/docs/educ...%20results.pdf

The Fuel additive study is done by Southwest Research Lab in San Antonio, TX. On the last page is a chart that does an excellent job of comparing the results. Bottom line - the first eight product do an excellent job of lubricating diesel fuel. After that - they do not cut the mustard. Lucas actually made the wear scar 5 microns bigger. In addition the chart shows the cost per tank to use the additive.

It is interesting to note in paragraph 2 under the "history" title:

*There have been many documented cases of randomly tested samples of diesel fuel. These tests prove that often times the fuel we purchase is not adequately treated and may therefore contribute to accelerated wear of our fuel delivery systems.*

Diesel fuel additives are a good thing in my book. In addition to the fuel lubricity issue you definitely need to carry something in the northern climates to prevent gelling in the cold weather. I use Schaeffer's Dieseltreat during the summer and the winterized formula during the winter.

Here is a copy of the chart I reference on the lat page of the study:


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## sydmeg1012 (Nov 10, 2008)

Thanks for the info! Do you have any recommendations on what to use?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

If it is a 2007 that Mandates ULSD then you really are not to put anything in it. That said the most common additive is 2 stroke oil. For the price, effect and availability and the fact it is designed to burn it is best. Not the best on the chart above but still the best.


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## swanny (Oct 31, 2007)

i use Opti-Lube XPD. dieselplace.com has some good info. you can also google it.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I have been using amsoil additive in mine the last 50k.. I used Lucas before that for 50k.. I seen that report and switched to amsoil.. Lucas scored bad.

I think the lucas was better.. Made the engine quieter and got better mpg by .5 to 1 mpg.. You dont even know the amsoil is in there.. At least with lucas, when you dont use it, you know it..

I feel that report isnt all thats its cracked up to be..

Most all the rv haulers I know use lucas exclusivly everywhere. Many, many of the guys have 500-750k on the original engines and injectors.. I think I will switch back to lucas this year.. I still havent decided if I will quit using amsoil in the engine.. I change my oil every 17500 and use 10-30w diesel oil, and with lucas the guys are changing every 15k.. They add 2 quarts of lucas to the engine oil then use a good dino oil like rotella, delo, or delvac..

The guys who use 2 stroke or old engine oil are having injector trouble before 500k.. I wont use either.

Carey


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Carey - Is the report (Chart) not all it is cracked up to due to Lucas scoring so bad?

Injector issues can not be pinned on 2 stroke oil alone but I will give you that unfiltered used motor oil could be a bad idea. Heck to read most Diesel forums you would think the ULSD fuel is the fault to all that is bad. There are not too many 500,000 (about 170,000 for the last 3 years or 465 miles a day for every day of the year for the last 3 years) mile pickups that have used only ULSD so any data of mixed use with LSD then the change to ULSD sort of muddies the water. Then you mix in p-pumped vs common rail and you you again have night and day on injector wear issues due to pressure differences and injection cycles. Very muddy water indeed.

I will stay with 2 stroke and the occasional dose of Power service and I expect to have many trouble free miles.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

CamperAndy said:


> Carey - Is the report (Chart) not all it is cracked up to due to Lucas scoring so bad?
> 
> Injector issues can not be pinned on 2 stroke oil alone but I will give you that unfiltered used motor oil could be a bad idea. Heck to read most Diesel forums you would think the ULSD fuel is the fault to all that is bad. There are not too many 500,000 (about 170,000 for the last 3 years or 465 miles a day for every day of the year for the last 3 years) mile pickups that have used only ULSD so any data of mixed use with LSD then the change to ULSD sort of muddies the water. Then you mix in p-pumped vs common rail and you you again have night and day on injector wear issues due to pressure differences and injection cycles. Very muddy water indeed.
> 
> I will stay with 2 stroke and the occasional dose of Power service and I expect to have many trouble free miles.


Thats cool Andy.. There is no real winner or looser when it come to additives..

When I seen that report and how bad lucas scored I decided to try something different.. I dont feel that the amsoil is better.. I loved the lucas stuff.. I will prolly go back to using it.. Still have a case and a 1/2 of amsoil to use up 1st..

In our line of work there are a ton of trucks that have used ULSD for the most part and have 500+ on them..

I seen many 2006 models this last summer with 500k on them..

Remember we put on 250k a year.. I put 100k on mine in 5 months and wasnt working real hard.. Yea knowone is putting those miles on now, but many have in the past..

Its pretty easy to see what works and what doesnt when you lay down the miles like that..

I know on the diesel forums are different.. Few of us post because we are busy driving. Not much else to say...

Even though the report says lucas doesnt work, in our findings the stuff does miracles..

Carey


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

There is a great deal of mis-representation of that table and you need to read the whole article to get the real story. Furthermore you need to read the follow up thread in dieselplace to understand the lubricity of normal pump grade ULSD. Finally and although I respect the testers methodology since it was dieselplace members who paid for this I remind us all that is in one and only one study.

First the number of 460 is a safe number but most experts agree that a number of 520 is good enough. Additionally the "Base Line number" chosen was raw ULSD which is before the refiners add any lubrication to it at all. That 626 number is claimed to hurt any engine and is not representative of what you would get out of the pump.

Therefore any of those products upto maybe 12 are probably good enough. Starting with number 13 the additives are either not statistically adding any lubricity or are detracting lubricity.

So to answer the original posters question Stanadyne is the only fluid recommended by GM and as such even the performance formula has additive lubricity. If you want run their lubricity formula during the summer and the performance formula during the winter.


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## raynardo (Jun 8, 2007)

Save your money.

I've personally spent several hundred dollars testing several of these so-called magic elixirs, yet found none of them useful as far as I can tell. No, I don't drive hundreds of thousands of miles a year, but every mile I do drive I keep carefully documented in a spreadsheet, and there was not statistical difference in MPG, fo me, whether I used any additive or not.

Having said that, if you believe spending the extra time, money and effort is worth it to you, then by all means go for it.

To me it's just snake oil.

YMMV.


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## bigdisneydaddy (Oct 26, 2007)

I run a mix of Power service and TW3 2 cycle oil (I have an LLY that doesnt have a DPF) about 50/50, I add about 10 ounces of this at every fill up. I read the quoted study a while back on Dieselplace and have listened to much debate. This is what I am comfortable with. I agree with the point made about the Lucas treatment, hard to argue with real world proof like that.


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## OutbackPM (Sep 14, 2005)

sydmeg1012 said:


> Ok so I have this new truck (well a 2007, new for me), 2500HD diesel D/A. I've read on some older posts about the use of diesel lubricants at each fillup like Stantadyne, AMSOIL, etc. From what I read the purpose was to provide lubrication that's not provided in the low-sulfur diesel that's in use now, as the older motors were not designed for low-sulfur fuels. My truck has the LMM motor, which I believe was designed with the ULSD diesel in mind. Do I still need to use these lubricants? I'm going to post this question on some Chevy diesel forums as well, but I was curious to see what others with this motor (or newer) are doing.


 I think the think info you need has been covered here. The diesel does have a lubricant added in ULSD but it is not up to the levels when sulphur was not controlled hence the need to add something else. The DieselPlace study was a good study but not necessarily the result you may get with what ever you choose to add. 
I use stanadyn Performance in mine and do notice a slight improvement in noise level when starting in very cold weather. I also know that stanadyn is approved for the new motors because it needs a low ash content when burnt. I think that is the CJ-4 certification that is also with the engine oil. I am also fortunate to be near a place that has biodiesel blend (10-20%). Bio has the best lube properties from the study at a 2% level so you can refill with other fuel and still have the ratio needed for good lube properties.

I have not seen any good info that says if you don't add anything the life drops to a low level but since LSD I have heard that there are more pump rebuilds than there use to be but that may relate to the much older engines not designed for LSD or ULSD.


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## sydmeg1012 (Nov 10, 2008)

Thanks to all for the info. I prefer to err on the side of caution, and ordered some Opti-Lube XPD this morning. I won't argue the results others have had with various methods, but based on the study results and my research I'm comfortable spending a little money for some peace of mind (as long as I'm not swinging the pendulum the other way and doing more harm than good, but that doesn't seem to be the case). This is my first diesel so it's definitely a learning process!


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## Tyvekcat (Aug 28, 2007)

Pennzoil Marine, Two stroke oil and the occasional dose of Power Service(white bottle).
Runs like a champ !


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## swanny (Oct 31, 2007)

well it's good to see that diesels are good!!!! from the post it appears we haven't had issues with our engines. so i guess the bottom line is, we all seem to be having good luck with whatever we use. not one post states a failure. so we add what makes us feel good. hell i once had an old timer tell me years ago putting some automatic transmission fluid in my carb was good for the engine. well i don't know if it was good but all the white smoke was awesome.


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Can't speak for any of them. My 6.0 Powerstroke manual clearly states..."use No fuel additives", so until the 100,000 mile factory warranty runs out...I'm sticking with that policy. When I was having problems the first year I had the truck, the dealer pulled a fuel sample for analysis to confirm that there were no additives. I say, like Mike mentioned, go with what is recommeded by the engine manufacturer.

I live in CT, and have not had a problem with gelling in the last three winters. I do plug her in when the temps get below 20, and that makes starting much easier.

Tim


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

hatcityhosehauler said:


> Can't speak for any of them. My 6.0 Powerstroke manual clearly states..."use No fuel additives", so until the 100,000 mile factory warranty runs out...I'm sticking with that policy. When I was having problems the first year I had the truck, the dealer pulled a fuel sample for analysis to confirm that there were no additives. I say, like Mike mentioned, go with what is recommeded by the engine manufacturer.
> 
> I live in CT, and have not had a problem with gelling in the last three winters. I do plug her in when the temps get below 20, and that makes starting much easier.
> 
> Tim


I stuck w/Stanadyne because it was what GM said to use plus Stanadyne makes diesel fuel systems. Good enough for those 2 good enough for me!


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## sydmeg1012 (Nov 10, 2008)

NJMikeC said:


> Can't speak for any of them. My 6.0 Powerstroke manual clearly states..."use No fuel additives", so until the 100,000 mile factory warranty runs out...I'm sticking with that policy. When I was having problems the first year I had the truck, the dealer pulled a fuel sample for analysis to confirm that there were no additives. I say, like Mike mentioned, go with what is recommeded by the engine manufacturer.
> 
> I live in CT, and have not had a problem with gelling in the last three winters. I do plug her in when the temps get below 20, and that makes starting much easier.
> 
> Tim


I stuck w/Stanadyne because it was what GM said to use plus Stanadyne makes diesel fuel systems. Good enough for those 2 good enough for me!
[/quote]

I guess that's another question....does using anything other than Stanadyne void the warranty? If so I'll be using Stanadyne. Does anyone know for sure? I'll try to contact GM to find out.


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## bigdisneydaddy (Oct 26, 2007)

sydmeg1012 said:


> Can't speak for any of them. My 6.0 Powerstroke manual clearly states..."use No fuel additives", so until the 100,000 mile factory warranty runs out...I'm sticking with that policy. When I was having problems the first year I had the truck, the dealer pulled a fuel sample for analysis to confirm that there were no additives. I say, like Mike mentioned, go with what is recommeded by the engine manufacturer.
> 
> I live in CT, and have not had a problem with gelling in the last three winters. I do plug her in when the temps get below 20, and that makes starting much easier.
> 
> Tim


I stuck w/Stanadyne because it was what GM said to use plus Stanadyne makes diesel fuel systems. Good enough for those 2 good enough for me!
[/quote]

I guess that's another question....does using anything other than Stanadyne void the warranty? If so I'll be using Stanadyne. Does anyone know for sure? I'll try to contact GM to find out.
[/quote]

All diesel fuel requires additive to add lubricity and anti gel components when weather dictates. I dont think that analysis would yield the exact brand of additive nor do I think they could state conclusively that it was you that put it in, it could very well have been the jobber that delivered the fuel.


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

For warranty issues they would have to pull a sample and tell you there was harmful additives in the fuel. If you have problems they likely will test your fuel and likely they will find some water before they find anything else and tell you to take a hike. Lots of tough love being delved out by the Big 3 these days when they find water.

So with that in mind use something they approve and that will help. Like I said Stanadyne makes diesel fuel systems and I would bet that they don't even make their additive but they surely had some input to how it is made. Therefore why bother with something else? What is to gain?

If you have further concerns then buy a 5 gallon can and get some bio . I wouldn't be a fan of 2 stroke on EGR or DPF equipped trucks like yours. On a percentage basis your adding soot by using 2-stroke or any other oil for that matter. That should be kind of obvious right?


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## rjsurfer (Dec 19, 2007)

I have a noisy injector on my 03 Dodge, at certain RPM's it rattles a bit but no drop in performance. I use 16oz of Powerservice on a fill up of diesel and that takes care of it for a month or so.

So I know the stuff must be doing something helpful.

Ron W.


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## bigdisneydaddy (Oct 26, 2007)

NJMikeC said:


> For warranty issues they would have to pull a sample and tell you there was harmful additives in the fuel. If you have problems they likely will test your fuel and likely they will find some water before they find anything else and tell you to take a hike. Lots of tough love being delved out by the Big 3 these days when they find water.
> 
> So with that in mind use something they approve and that will help. Like I said Stanadyne makes diesel fuel systems and I would bet that they don't even make their additive but they surely had some input to how it is made. Therefore why bother with something else? What is to gain?
> 
> If you have further concerns then buy a 5 gallon can and get some bio . I wouldn't be a fan of 2 stroke on EGR or DPF equipped trucks like yours. On a percentage basis your adding soot by using 2-stroke or any other oil for that matter. That should be kind of obvious right?


You are correct that 2 cycle oil should not be used on a DPF equipped vehicle, the EGR isnt a problem on my truck.


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## MaeJae (May 12, 2005)

I shall say nothing...










MaeJae
















had to.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

rjsurfer said:


> I have a noisy injector on my 03 Dodge, at certain RPM's it rattles a bit but no drop in performance. I use 16oz of Powerservice on a fill up of diesel and that takes care of it for a month or so.
> 
> So I know the stuff must be doing something helpful.
> 
> Ron W.


Check fuel lines around the injectors for tightness.. If any are slightly loose, it will rattle.

Carey


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## bigdisneydaddy (Oct 26, 2007)

What am I missing ?



MaeJae said:


> I shall say nothing...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## rjsurfer (Dec 19, 2007)

Carey,

thanks for the advice on tightening the fuel lines....I never thought to check something so simple.

Ron W.


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## sydmeg1012 (Nov 10, 2008)

bigdisneydaddy said:


> I shall say nothing...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/quote]

I was wondering the same thing!


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## MaeJae (May 12, 2005)

sydmeg1012 said:


> I shall say nothing...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/quote]

*I was wondering the same thing!
*[/quote]

Sorry about that...







LOL... my bad...really, just ignore it... LOL

click-ity-click-click

click-ity-click-click2

MaeJae







 <<<sunshine and goodness!


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

I think that when you add MaeJae and Lubricants it go's from a G rated post to NC-17. James


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## sydmeg1012 (Nov 10, 2008)

You naughty naughty girl!


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

This might be one of those times where a "Please stay on topic" comment is in order.









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## CTDOutback06 (Apr 16, 2007)

I have used Diesel Kleen and Fuel Boost for Diesels. The Fuel Boost really seems to improve the mpg, I'd say on average by 15% is what I have seen personally on my truck.


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