# Going To Switch Trucks



## Dupper (Jul 19, 2006)

Before I get our trailer, I am going to switch to a better TV. I currently have a 2002 Dodge Ram 1500 Crew Cab with 4.7l, 3.92 gears, and 20in wheels. From what I hear, I would be able to tow with it but not very well on any type of grade, and I would probably shorten the lifespan of my truck and transmission. Since I would rather not do that, I am starting my slow search to find the right used truck for me.

Here is what I am looking for:
2500 at least
3.73 gears at least
6.0l at least (gm or ford with the v10)
moderate mileage
crew cab
4x4
not a work truck bare bones type

As much as I would like to get a diesel, that just won't be in the cards right now. I think with this criteria, the trailer that we choose will not have a problem. We are looking at the 25rss, maybe the 28rsds, but no bigger that the 29bhs. We like the side slide out as it opens up more space inside.

Any advice on what gas mileage is on either of those engines, towing and not towing. Also any information on what the maintenance costs are like with the bigger gas engines.

Thanks to everyone here for helping me make the decision to change the vehicles. I was prepared to pull with my current truck, and not be very fast on hills.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Dupper,

With that engine, I think you are making a wise choice. I have heard a lot of good things about the Ford V-10. If I were to upgrade, that is probably the way I would go. Gas mileage is not going to be great on anything you are looking at, so brace yourself!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Dupper (Jul 19, 2006)

Kinda used the the gas mileage as it is now, I average just over 13. Just wondering if a bigger engine same size truck made a difference. Probably not enough to make a difference though.


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

Sounds like you're looking for a real nice truck. Any of those set ups should tow the Outback of that size just fine. We have the 3/4 Yukon XL with 6.0 and it tows our 25RSS very nicely. I do feel it going up the hills so you may want the bigger engines if you expect to get something larger than the 25RSS.


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Look at the 2007 Ram Hemi's.......

They now have an available displacement on demand version of the Hemi.

It sure would help with the gas mileage outside of towing.

Steve


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## wicandthing (Jul 11, 2005)

I have the GMC 2500HD with 6.0L V8. I get about 12-14 not towing and 8-9 towing. I have never sat down and figured the actuals, so I'm kind of guessing. I figure you are going to buy the gas whether you get 8 or 15 MPG.....

The 6.0 is a strong engine. I have the 4:10 gears and it pulls my 23RS like its not even there.....

Wic


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## jfish21 (Feb 14, 2006)

I have the same truck for work and get around 12 mph. I would not try towing with it.
My TV is a chevy 2500hd 8.1L with 4:10's i get around 13 mph and 8.5-9.5 towing #8000-#9000
A coworker has the same set up as wicandthing and get the same numbers and he is pulling around #8000-#9000
The ford I have know idea about

good luck


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Can't tell you anything about the engines but - WOW! - a new truck! Man, you're gonna have these guys crying at your feet soon.


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

I guess I do not understand, why not consider a diesel? I'm not talking a new one, but perhaps a used one. The Ford 7.3L Diesel is a great motor. I get 11-13 mpg towing my 5th wheeler, 15 around town, and 20 highway. I haven't done the math but I know I'm not spending as much on fuel - especially while towing. In addition, many folks get 300,000+ miles out of these rigs. I guess it depends on how far you wish to travel and how often. Not nockin' anyone's gasser, just my 2 cents.


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## Not Yet (Dec 13, 2004)

Dupper said:


> Before I get our trailer, I am going to switch to a better TV. I currently have a 2002 Dodge Ram 1500 Crew Cab with 4.7l, 3.92 gears, and 20in wheels. From what I hear, I would be able to tow with it but not very well on any type of grade, and I would probably shorten the lifespan of my truck and transmission. Since I would rather not do that, I am starting my slow search to find the right used truck for me.
> 
> Here is what I am looking for:
> 2500 at least
> ...


A quick search on Autotrader

turns up 30 vehicles in your area. Some very nice trucks out there - have fun shopping.


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## prevish gang (Mar 19, 2006)

huntr70 said:


> Look at the 2007 Ram Hemi's.......
> 
> They now have an available displacement on demand version of the Hemi.
> 
> ...


Steve, I think the dealer told us that the multi-displacement is not available on the 2500. That may have just been for 2006, but I don't think so.

The reason a diesel is probably not in the cards is the same reason we aren't going to get one. They cost too darn much money. We are leaning towards the 2500 Dodge with Hemi ourselves. It looks like gas mileage will run 11-15 mpg. Towing it will be about the same as any other.

Darlene


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## rman45 (Jun 30, 2006)

Great choice moving to a 2500. Not too sure about the Ford v-10. We towed over our 28RSDS at 7000lbs. with a 1500 Yukon XL and the 6.0L, 3.73 rear end. It towed it very well. Smooth and quiet, even at higher rpm's. The only thing I would have liked is a 4.10. I think that would have made a nice difference in the hills. Our average gas mileage after 1400 miles of towing was 11.2 mpg. We just bought a '07 2500HD Crew Cab Duramax for $36013. That was nearly $7,000. of MSRP. I think every maker is offering aggressive discounts right now, so you night be surprised at what you buy a diesel for.

Have fun!

Randy


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Rman,

You got that right! Most GM Diesels can be had for $36K, which probably means the other 3/4 Tons can be had for $31 or even $30K. Just too much value though in a Diesel to pass that up.


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

I got my 2006 Dodge 2500 Cummins turbo diesel crew cab with ThunderRoad pkg, hard tonneau cover, nerf bars, and a few more accessories for just under $40,000, counting the rebates, etc. GM wouldn't budge off their similar truck one penny, anywhere in the local area.
Yes, it's diesel, but diesel is finally coming down some, thank GOD! However, even with diesel, I get 11 MPG towing my 31 RQS, around 17 empty, and the mileage keeps getting better as I go. I only have 5,000 miles on it, so far. The 31RQS is a good bit heavier than the 27RSDS I had, but the mileage keeps going up, still.
Diesel costs more, still, but I did the math, and, on gas, I would average less mileage per dollar.
One thing to consider, though. I don't know what the deal is, but there's warning stickers on the low-sulfur diesel saying not to use it in the 2007 and later diesels. Wonder what they expect you to use??








Darlene


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Darlene,

Low sulfer diesel (500PPM) is what we have now. In October we will have ultra low sulfer (15PPM). The '07's and above have to run ULSD and the '06 and below can run either. There is no worry other then the artifically high prices we are currently seeing due to the switch over.

Mike


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

NJMikeC said:


> Darlene,
> 
> Low sulfer diesel (500PPM) is what we have now. In October we will have ultra low sulfer (15PPM). The '07's and above have to run ULSD and the '06 and below can run either. There is no worry other then the artifically high prices we are currently seeing due to the switch over.
> 
> Mike


Thanks for clearing that up for me, Mike. I had heard that the even lower sulfur was coming out, but wondered when. I think the prices STINK!! Diesel has historically been much cheaper than unleaded, and NOW, WHEW! It's higher than super unleaded. It's just ridiculous. Refineries should NOT charge the customer extra everytime they experience problems with leaks in oil lines, and decide to come out with new products. That's called maintenance and progress. Everyday businesses are not allowed to jack up prices when they undergo maintenance/repairs, so why should they?
Darlene


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## rman45 (Jun 30, 2006)

sgalady,
New Cummings with accessories for under $40k? That's awesome! 
I read in the 07 Diesel manual that in the US, the Ultra Low Sulfur Fuel (15ppm) is labelled "Diesel 2", which is readily available here in the NW. Most people do not know anything about this Diesel 2. I called a dealership, talked to gas attendants and mechanics, and got blank stares most of the time. All I was lookng for was someone with some experience. I have seen however, those small stickers near the pump handle of normal diesel that prohibits the use of 500ppm fuel in 2007 and later models. A good warning for those who are paying attention. 15ppm fuel is labeled differently in Canada though I don't remember off hand what they call it.

Randy


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## Scott and Jamie (Aug 27, 2006)

rman45 said:


> sgalady,
> New Cummings with accessories for under $40k? That's awesome!
> I read in the 97 Diesel manual that in the US, the Ultra Low Sulfur Fuel (15ppm) is labelled "Diesel 2", which is readily available here in the NW. Most people do not know anything about this Diesel 2. I called a dealership, talked to gas attendants and mechanics, and got blank stares most of the time. All I was lookng for was someone with some experience. I have seen however, those small stickers near the pump handle of normal diesel that prohibits the use of 500ppm fuel in 2007 and later models. A good warning for those who are paying attention. 15ppm fuel is labeled differently in Canada though I don't remember off hand what they call it.
> 
> Randy


Are you sure about the #2 being 15ppm?? #2 diesel has been around for years and all of our gas stations have that warning sticker stuck on the #2 pumps for the last six months. I would think if this is the safe fuel for the 2007 models It wouldn't say that "Fedral Law prohibits the use of of it in 2007 and newer models". There might be a different #2 diesel but I would think they would come up with a new name.


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## Scott and Jamie (Aug 27, 2006)

Just did some research on the web and The pump must be labled "# 2 ultra low sulfur 15 ppm max" to be the clean diesel. #2 "low sulfur is 500 ppm max" I know all of the pumps around here are low sulfur.


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

>>Everyday businesses are not allowed to jack up prices when they undergo maintenance/repairs, so why should they?
>>Darlene

Say what?









Slug


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## rman45 (Jun 30, 2006)

Scott and Jamie said:


> Just did some research on the web and The pump must be labled "# 2 ultra low sulfur 15 ppm max" to be the clean diesel. #2 "low sulfur is 500 ppm max" I know all of the pumps around here are low sulfur.


Scott and Jamie,
Thanks for clearing that up. I have seen the ultra low sulfur sticker as well. It has been a little confusing, and I wish there were more informed poeple both selling these vehicles and the fuel.

I visited a local shell station this evening and spoke with an attendant about the #2 diesel. He said they only have the Ultra low sulfur, as both new and previous model diesels can run it. However, I asked him about the 500ppm sticker on the far side of the pump, and he said it was added before they switched to the 15ppm. Still a little misleading. It'll be nice when this is standard everywhere.

Randy


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

NJMikeC said:


> Darlene,
> 
> Low sulfer diesel (500PPM) is what we have now. In October we will have ultra low sulfer (15PPM). The '07's and above have to run ULSD and the '06 and below can run either. There is no worry other then the artifically high prices we are currently seeing due to the switch over.
> 
> Mike


Darlene, it's as Mike said. Compare it to when we had to start using unleaded back in the mid 70's. They charged more for the unleaded, and you had to use it in cars newer then 1976 (if I remember correctly). Now it's the only fuel you see. The Low sulfur/Ultra Low Sulfur switch over is about the same.

I've gotten ULSD now at two different stations, one in NH back in August, and now the local station that I normally fill up has it. I have not seen a difference in price. Actually, the local place is going down. Currently $2.89 for Diesel.

Tim


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

sgalady said:


> I got my 2006 Dodge 2500 Cummins turbo diesel crew cab with ThunderRoad pkg, hard tonneau cover, nerf bars, and a few more accessories for just under $40,000, counting the rebates, etc. GM wouldn't budge off their similar truck one penny, anywhere in the local area.
> Yes, it's diesel, but diesel is finally coming down some, thank GOD! However, even with diesel, I get 11 MPG towing my 31 RQS, around 17 empty, and the mileage keeps getting better as I go. I only have 5,000 miles on it, so far. The 31RQS is a good bit heavier than the 27RSDS I had, but the mileage keeps going up, still.
> Diesel costs more, still, but I did the math, and, on gas, I would average less mileage per dollar.
> One thing to consider, though. I don't know what the deal is, but there's warning stickers on the low-sulfur diesel saying not to use it in the 2007 and later diesels. Wonder what they expect you to use??
> ...


*Darlene,

You might want to consider using an additive when the Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel comes out this October. During the refinement process the fuel become "dry" and is lacking some lubricity. The fuel companies are supposed to add some lubricity to the fuel before it goes out to market. There are tons of product out there to use. One is Diesel Kleen which can be bought at Walmart. Others are;

Amsoil, or Schaeffer's,

and Howes which can be found at many truck stops. Also, running some biodiesel can help out. Alot of these products are also cetane boosters, which means slightly better MPG.

It is an inexpensive insurance on a large investment.*


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## rms0726ea (Aug 9, 2006)

prevish gang said:


> The reason a diesel is probably not in the cards is the same reason we aren't going to get one. They cost too darn much money.
> 
> Darlene


*For new diesels I agree about the prices, the diesel option has increased up to the $8K mark. But you can still find a good used diesel with 50,000 miles on it for 25K. Theses motors arn't even broken in untill 60-70,000 miles. In addition you will have the diesel at least twice as long as a gas motor, most folks get 300,000+ miles out of them. So over the long run you will at least come out even.*


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Folks,

Diesel prices should lower and stabilize after October. I believe if I read the data right now it is at a historical high. Diesel in NJ has decreased 2 cents a gallon while regular gas has decreased 40 if not 50 cents/gallon. That puts it all in perspective that we are getting royally ripped off.

Stanadyne has been reformulated for ULSD, I have a shipment on the way now. I will run it every few tanks and of course while I'm towing. It should be more then sufficient for providing the lubrication White Buffalo referred to. Buying bulk off the web seems to have worked for me.


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## ftroop (Sep 1, 2006)

My Burb gets 7.5 to 9 with the 8.1 liter. 12 - 13 is typical while not towing. my DW calculates every tankfull when we fill up for me. It holds very well on the hills. Just keep an eye on the oil level, it tends to be thirsty.







I know when we were looking at these, they are hard to find, does anyone know if this is the same with the trucks?? So basically, we had less room to negotiate on the price, so be prepared for this. I thought about an Excursion diesel, but price was a factor for me also...


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

sgalady said:


> Everyday businesses are not allowed to jack up prices when they undergo maintenance/repairs, so why should they?


They're not?

Business is business, and they (oil companies or otherwise) are in it for one reason... to make money. Now there are a couple of ways they can do this. One is that they can jack prices up artifically high in order to build a reserve to cover the costs of anticipated future upgrades and repairs. That model does not work real well in a commodity market. Or, they can keep prices based on actual current costs, and raise them as needed to cover unexpected expenses when they incur them.

Now I'm not defending the oil companies by any means, but there is nothing unique about their being 'allowed' to raise prices at whim, when other industries are not.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Scott and Jamie (Aug 27, 2006)

PDX_Doug said:


> Everyday businesses are not allowed to jack up prices when they undergo maintenance/repairs, so why should they?


They're not?

Business is business, and they (oil companies or otherwise) are in it for one reason... to make money. Now there are a couple of ways they can do this. One is that they can jack prices up artifically high in order to build a reserve to cover the costs of anticipated future upgrades and repairs. That model does not work real well in a commodity market. Or, they can keep prices based on actual current costs, and raise them as needed to cover unexpected expenses when they incur them.

Now I'm not defending the oil companies by any means, but there is nothing unique about their being 'allowed' to raise prices at whim, when other industries are not.

Happy Trails,
Doug
[/quote]

You hit it on the nose Doug. The oil companies make mor money when gas prices are lower and selling alot of it. The oil companies make on average about 15 cents a gallon. If they raise their rates due to a natural disaster..yes they make more per gallon but they also have a huge repair bill so the end profit is almost always less. For a side note the tax on fuel in most states is about 50 cents a gallon..tax goes up when price goes up..wow most state/feds are making 3-4 times the profit of the oil companies









Scott


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## Dupper (Jul 19, 2006)

Personally, I would consider diesel, but the DW doesn't want one. So a gasser is what I will get. I have definately ruled out anything smaller than a 6.0l as we might be traveiling to MI to get the trailer and possibly a vacation up in the same area to visit some friends at the same time. Thanks for all the info and details. I am still looking for info on the V10 from Ford. If the DW changes her mind about the diesel, then I will definately go that route.


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## jthella (Sep 18, 2006)

[/quote]* and is lacking some lubricity. The fuel companies are supposed to add some lubricity *
[/quote]

Lubricity? Wasn't that a song by the "Police??"


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## 3LEES (Feb 18, 2006)

Scott and Jamie said:


> Everyday businesses are not allowed to jack up prices when they undergo maintenance/repairs, so why should they?


They're not?

Business is business, and they (oil companies or otherwise) are in it for one reason... to make money. Now there are a couple of ways they can do this. One is that they can jack prices up artifically high in order to build a reserve to cover the costs of anticipated future upgrades and repairs. That model does not work real well in a commodity market. Or, they can keep prices based on actual current costs, and raise them as needed to cover unexpected expenses when they incur them.

Now I'm not defending the oil companies by any means, but there is nothing unique about their being 'allowed' to raise prices at whim, when other industries are not.

Happy Trails,
Doug
[/quote]

You hit it on the nose Doug. The oil companies make mor money when gas prices are lower and selling alot of it. The oil companies make on average about 15 cents a gallon. If they raise their rates due to a natural disaster..yes they make more per gallon but they also have a huge repair bill so the end profit is almost always less. For a side note the tax on fuel in most states is about 50 cents a gallon..tax goes up when price goes up..wow most state/feds are making 3-4 times the profit of the oil companies









Scott
[/quote]

Scott, if this is true, then 'splain me why EVERY oil company has record profits this year?

I think the only players in the fuel "game" that haven't made a ton of money this past year are the local gas stations. It does not matter what the price is for them. They only make a couple of cents a gallon regardless of the price.

Dan


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