# Generators



## Dan V (May 21, 2006)

Swore I would never ( never say never ) get a generator , as they are generally noisey, obnoxious things - even the quiet ones . Well told the DW I would get her one so she could bring along one of her sewing machines so as to have something to do if I'm out hunting , fishing or whatever .

I have no idea what size ( power wise , wattage ?) I should get , don't need it for running the A/C , just for the sewing machine , microwave and recharging batteries . I believe I can switch off the onboard battery charger when shes sewing , is that possible ? If so that should make my requirements for wattage even less , anybody have some suggestions on what size generator I need ? Trying to keep weight / cost to a minimum ! Want to buy quality just not more than I really require .









Thanks , Dan


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I'm no generator expert, but the small generators around 1000 watts are all 2 strokes I beleive. So if your looking for quality, get a yamaha 2400 or honda 2000. Or you could get a cheaper china made one.. I feel if its just for campnig, then a cheapy is fine.. I have other things needing money.. When it wears out or gets stolen your only out a few hundred bucks..

Link to china made 2000w

Honda Generators

Yamaha Generators

Carey


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Here's a generator wattage guide:

clicky thing

I was going to suggest a 1000 watt generator, but not sure if it would be enough to fire up the microwave. Our Honda 2000 bogs down when the microwave starts, but once running it's got plenty of power.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Cool clicky thing Dawn,







Put that in my favs..

Carey


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

I have the Kipor 3000thi and it will also runs the AC even above 6000' and is quite and light. Weights about 65 lbs and if you just want to run a sewing machine it would be idling with very little noise. I now see they are selling them on EBAY for $799 to your door, that is cheaper than what I paid for mine. A lot of generator for the price, and if you decide to run the AC or Microwave you have the power to do it, plus the Inverter technology makes it save for sensitive electronics. I would never consider running a Trailer on anything but a inverter type generator.

By the way my DW thinks the sewing machine camping is a good idea too. She likes to quilt


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## freefaller25 (Mar 19, 2006)

Hello Dan,

We run our entire camper (a/c / microwave (together), tv's, etc) off a cheap 3500W Chinese generator.

Generator

The down side is it is not too quiet so you should be considerate of others. It is also not crazy loud (one of the quietest cheapies). The up side, COST, don't care sooo much if it is stolen, already has RV plug, plenty of power.

This is a popular model on RV.net and Cabela's is also selling the exact same thing for $399. I have had no problems running TV's, a/c, microwave, etc. on this thing......YET.... We have also used it in our house with an extension cord when the power was out last year.

If your out in the woods for your outdoor activities, this one should be perfect for you. My only concern would be if it is a powerful sewing machine (+500W) then you may see frequency variation in the power as you wife runs the variable speed peddle. This is because the cheap genertors use the motor speed to set the voltage frequency. My wife is also a quilter so maybe I can talk her into a test sometime today. The inverter type machine would not have this issue.

Tony


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Sewing machine with camping......I thought I had heard it all









Actually I think it is a great idea if that suits your needs to go camping more







We all have to find our own way to relax and sewing in the peace and quiet with no distractions camping makes the DW relax then that is what you do.









John


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

I have a Honda generator but also tried to be Earth firendly and hav a pretty good solar panel i bring out... the Solar panel will charge the batteries and run most things (minue the A/C) during the day ...


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

I'm not a sewing expert, but I would have to think most of the time your wife will be getting things ready...lining up the stitch...pinning things...etc.

How much time will the machine actually run? If it isn't that much, perhaps you can just use an inverter and eliminate the need for a generator.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Based on your needs and wants and don't wants. I would suggest the following.

Invest in a good set of Batteries.
Get a good 1000 watt inverter.
Get a 1000 watt generator to charge the batteries.

You will not be able to run the Micro but your primary needs will be met and the 1000 watt generators from Honda or Kipor are very low noise.


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## Dan V (May 21, 2006)

Some good suggestions here , thanks . Thinking the Honda or Kipor 2000w but the smaller 1000w ones might fill the need if the price is low enough , like " free to a good home " !

Anyone with the Kipor generators speak up , good or bad ! A bit cheaper than Honda , wondering if anyone has had the cover off , is that a HONDA motor under the plastic ? Like the Honda because of the availabilty of parts , hopefully that will not be an issue with either brand I've mentioned .









Thanks again , Dan


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## lafpd04 (Jan 4, 2007)

Honda's and Kipor's are great if you wanna pay through the nose







. You would actaully need a Honda 3000 to run the A/C and everything else. Myself and Cajuncountry have CHAMPION 3500 Watt generators and they run the whole camper just fine (and they are not that noisy). They run about $300 so they are very inexspensive







. Someone also told be to get a doghouse that a seperate top and bottom. Place the gen. on the bottom half, start it, then place the top on it. They said it decreases the noise tremendously. Happy Trails


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Fourwinds said:


> Honda's and Kipor's are great if you wanna pay through the nose
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually the Kipor is cheap for what you get, $799 to your door for a quite inverter generator that will run the AC even above 6000' and my 14 year Son can carry it. You get what you pay for, buy a inverter generator and your electronics are safe and your neighbors will love you or buy a cheap contractor motor generator and you risk blowing out everything in your trailer including the converter and having everyone in the campground hating you.

There is a reason these contractor generators are so cheap, they are nothing more than a motor and a generator and have to maintain 1800 rpm to get 60 cycles out. It is imposable to keep it a 60 hz when you have a load change like a AC cycle and you risk blowing out sensitive electronics or stressing it. I saw several thousand dollars of Ham radio equipment get wiped out using a cheap generator so who is really paying out their nose?


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## lafpd04 (Jan 4, 2007)

Well, your camper should have an inverter on it already. So...if you connect a generator that has an inverter on it to your camper, you are reversing the inverter.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Fourwinds said:


> Well, your camper should have an inverter on it already. So...if you connect a generator that has an inverter on it to your camper, you are reversing the inverter.


No your trailer comes with a converter not a inverter, a converter converters 120ac to 12 volts dc so you can run all the 12 items like lights, pumps fan motors ect, plus charge the batteries. The converter is a switching power supply not a linear power supply like they used in the old days. This means the converter takes the 120 ac converts it to DC than chops it at a high frequency because it is at high frequency short duty cycle it can than be stepped down with a very small transformer. This makes for a very light converter but a lot of sensitive electronics to do all this.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

There has been a very huge post going since 2005 over at rv.net. There has been electrical engineers doing testing on about every generator made.. It has been determined that any of the china made generators will not hurt any electronics in a camper. They have tested every china gen with very expensive electrical equipment. The china gens are not to be used with computers or life saving electronics, other than that, they will do fine. Actually some of the us made gens are way worse than chinas. The circut boards in the camper are not as elaborate as computers. They are just basic boards.

For you guys interested in a Duro or Champion, they will do just fine.. The kipor is also a china made gen. Its just that some of the engineering was done here in the states. Its still using the same engine as the other china brands.

If any want to read it, it is about 330 pages long right now and still going.. Heres the link.

Click here for a month of reading on generators

Carey


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## JimBo99 (Apr 25, 2006)

I'd go with a 3000 watt at least. Once you get used to 120 volt things you'll want to take more! I use a 3000 watt Yamaha and it runs the AC too.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> There has been a very huge post going since 2005 over at rv.net. There has been electrical engineers doing testing on about every generator made.. It has been determined that any of the china made generators will not hurt any electronics in a camper. They have tested every china gen with very expensive electrical equipment. The china gens are not to be used with computers or life saving electronics, other than that, they will do fine. Actually some of the us made gens are way worse than chinas. The circut boards in the camper are not as elaborate as computers. They are just basic boards.
> 
> For you guys interested in a Duro or Champion, they will do just fine.. The kipor is also a china made gen. Its just that some of the engineering was done here in the states. Its still using the same engine as the other china brands.
> 
> ...


Well Carey I have to disagree with you on this one. The converter has a lot of sensitive cmos parts in it and is just as sensitive as any computer out there. Nothing basic about it. just about everything electronic today is sensitive, like all TV's microwaves, ect.

The inverter generators are not even a real generator but a alternator putting out DC that a inverter converts to 120 volts ac at a constant 60 hz and a regulated voltage no mater what the Motor RPM's are. I for one would not want to tell anyone that they are safe using a simple generator that can't keep the voltage and frequency stable under varying loads. Do you really want to roll the dice...Not me.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

All I can say is it is too hard to explain... What I mean by basic is nothing out of the ordinary... I do know they are solid state and have pc boards, but they are just the run of the mill stuff..

This is why I bought my Champion. This is just a few tidbits of info from the rv.net link I posted above. This was written by the professor. He is an electrical wizard. He has tested about every gen out there and has said nothing but great things about the champion.. For the money you cant go wrong and this gen will never hurt anything in a campers electronics.... I dont know about any others.. I was interested in the Champion, and happen to stumble across one at my local Checkers so I bought it. For the money there is nothing that compares to it..

Carey

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As for the difference between Kragen (Champion) and Pep Boys (Wen Power Pro). Both have solid state voltage regulators and both provide a fairly clean sine wave with minimal distortion. The AVR used on these units is a plus compared to the capacitor regulator circuit used on many other models.

Alternators like the UST that are "brushless" use a capacitor voltage regulator. They do not produce as much usable output as brush type units with an AVR (Champion & ProwerPro) since part of their energy is needed to excite their coils. Having a 12 volt DC winding also further reduces available 120 volt power since part of the energy is routed to this section

The DuroPower is a nice little unit. It is almost identical to the ELM3000 I purchased in March of 2005 when this thread began. Both the DuroPower and original ELM3000 are built by a large Chinese plant named JiangDong.

The major mechanical differences betwen the Champion and JiangDong units are in the way the voltage is regulated and the amount of distortion that appears on the output sine wave. The Champion uses a very well designed solid state voltage regulator with a sense winding. The JD units use a simple AC capacitor. Voltage is much more stable with the Champion AVR and the distortion on the output is somewhere in the range of 4% - pretty low for this class of generator. The Champion does use slip rings and a brush set rather than a brushless design. Initially, I saw this as a negative but now that I have been able to disect and examine both units I believe the brushes will outlast most of the other components.

Another thing to consider is your warranty and after the sale support. JD makes generators for perhaps a hundred or more distributors who sell them under their label (like DuroPower). Champion owns their own manufacturing facility and makes only their own label. Their warrranty and service/parts department are currently very responsive to customer needs and have impressed many on this forum.

If it sounds like I am advertising for Champion - I am not. At least not any more than I would advertise for products from GM, Fleetwood, Camco, Acar, Dometic or a slew of others that I have been blessed to receive good service, support and some value for my dollar from. I think one of the things that these forums do that makes them valuable is allowing contributors to honestly express their experiences with products and problems relevant to our life style.

One item to note is the Champion AVR (voltage regulator). They will not tell me what is in it or how it works, but it is obvious by construction and performance that it is superior to the simple capacitor used on others that I have encountered. Compared to the other Chinese generators I have plugged into an oscilloscope to look at the output waveform, this one has considerably less "noise" and distortion.
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Question: I was concerned that the power wasnt clean enough for a laptop. there was a warning about that in the book for mine. I use laptop off inverter if im going to use it.

Answer: Are you refering to the book for your labtop? Unless you are still running a Tandy 1000LT from the early 90's, there is no need for concern. Virtually all modern laptops use a "switching" type power supply to change 120 VAC into the low voltage 12-18 volts DC required for operation. Additional voltage regulators inside the laptop further filter and adjust DC voltages for appropriate circuits. There is absolutely no reason that your laptop should not perform as well off of your (Chinese?) generator as it does off of the power company grid. 
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There are major differences in the actual generator assembly between some brands. The ones with brushes seem to provide better voltage regulation than the brushless. Champion uses brushes, the JD built Powerwise does not. The major issue was if the generator was wired to provide full wattage from a single 120 volt outlet rather than 1/2 to each of two outlets.


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## Cajuncountry (Jan 4, 2007)

I have to agree with Colorado Dirtbikers and fourwinds. I also have bought a Champion after reading the 330 pages on rv.net. I have hooked this generator to my TT and everything works normally, even the A/C. I have recently seen now where a dealership is giving this generator away when you buy a TT as a incentive. One thing to know is this is not a contractor generator and is not recomended for that use by the manufacturer. It is used for TT, hence the RV outlet.


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## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

One thing no one is talking about is how much gas they use.. An inverter type gen will idle down and use a lot less gas. Honda 2000 goes 15 hours on 1.1 gal. Champion goes 3 hours on 1 gal.

with 1000 hours of use...

Honda 73 gal X 2.50 = 182.00

champion 333 gax x 2.50 = 832.50

You are paying for it one way on another. You might as well get a better gen..


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

sleecjr said:


> One thing no one is talking about is how much gas they use.. An inverter type gen will idle down and use a lot less gas. Honda 2000 goes 15 hours on 1.1 gal. Champion goes 3 hours on 1 gal.
> 
> with 1000 hours of use...
> 
> ...


Yes you are right, BUT you live in the east, and use a gen for things like a/c. When we camp it would be a very very rare thing to use the a/c..I really could just take the ac off my camper and huck it!! Never use it. Its dead weight!!!! You know when we camp it is rarely above 80-85, and if it were it is only a couple hours. Generally its a 105* here and 65-70* in the mountains.. The mountains are just a short drive away. We love to go to the mountains for this reason..

My point... I have much better things to do with my money.. I have 5 motorcycles I support.. lol We only camp weekends, or long weekends. I truly have no real desire to go out of state. Maybe to Utah, I feel its 2nd best to Colorado for ohv riding. We are already living in heaven, why go anywhere else..
Next issue... When we go camping, we are up by 7-8 and leave to go riding by 9.. We then are back at 4-5.. There is NO WAY I would spend more than a few hundred on a gen. Many times we are the only ones at our campsite. This leaves your camper wide open to any who want to break in, steal things, or what ever. I'd be crazy to have a honda setting back there. It'd be gone in hours...............................

HERE is why I bought a gen.... MY WIFE and KIDS! She enjoys making HER lattes, (I dont drink coffee) She enjoys drying her hair with a blow dryer.. Our daughter has to have that also.. And most important... So we can use our microwave. Other than that there is no real reason for it.. BUT TO US, these are extremely important reasons to have a gen..

The generator is only run just a few minutes at a time.. It would take us 2 lifetimes to put 73 gallons in my gen, LET ALONE 333 gallons. Honstly we might use a gallon a trip...

Gas is not an issue. Dont really care.. But for an easterner living in high humid, and high day/night temps, then having the very best gen is plausable... For alot of us in the west where its cool where we camp, gens are a secondary thing... I know this can be a fight about whos is best... BUT ITS NOT... The Honda/Yammy is best!!! OK! But for people not wanting to spend alot or have no use for a full time gen... THERE ARE OPTIONS! I dont know why people cant respect that.. The Champion gens will power your camper just fine for a initial cost of 300... How much time its used will determine who pays more.... Lets leave it to that.

I for one, am way way ahead buying a Champion... The Champion has been disected, tested, and abused over at rv.net................. It has been determined its the cheapest, safest, biggest, reliable gen for my hard earned money.. All some of us are saying,,, there ARE options.... By the way, the Champion is FS approved, EPA approved, and CARB approved.. I can run this gen legally!! You guys go pick on the many that are not generating legally... OK!!









Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Cajuncountry said:


> I have to agree with Colorado Dirtbikers and fourwinds. I also have bought a Champion after reading the 330 pages on rv.net. I have hooked this generator to my TT and everything works normally, even the A/C. I have recently seen now where a dealership is giving this generator away when you buy a TT as a incentive. One thing to know is this is not a contractor generator and is not recomended for that use by the manufacturer. It is used for TT, hence the RV outlet.


Very true Cajun... The warranty is void for contractors. It is a rv/residential gen only... It is sold as an rv gen..

Carey


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## lafpd04 (Jan 4, 2007)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> I have to agree with Colorado Dirtbikers and fourwinds. I also have bought a Champion after reading the 330 pages on rv.net. I have hooked this generator to my TT and everything works normally, even the A/C. I have recently seen now where a dealership is giving this generator away when you buy a TT as a incentive. One thing to know is this is not a contractor generator and is not recomended for that use by the manufacturer. It is used for TT, hence the RV outlet.


Very true Cajun... The warranty is void for contractors. It is a rv/residential gen only... It is sold as an rv gen..

Carey
[/quote]

Totally agree. THANK YOU. I love my Champion. It starts easy, it was cheaper, and it does the job. Even though it does use more gas.


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## BLUB (Oct 23, 2005)

Noise is another consideration, please get a quiet one unless you're in the boonies by yourself where it won't bother anyone, I've heard some that sound like a lawnmower, running for hours. Honda, Yamaha are super quiet. Champion is rated 68 DB at 21 feet. Honda 49db @1/4 load and only 58db @ full load, almost 20 times quiter. On the decibel scale, the smallest audible sound (near total silence) is 0 dB. A sound 10 times more powerful is 10 dB. A sound 100 times more powerful than near total silence is 20 dB. A sound 1,000 times more powerful than near total silence is 30 dB...............


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## lafpd04 (Jan 4, 2007)

BLUB said:


> Noise is another consideration, please get a quiet one unless you're in the boonies by yourself where it won't bother anyone, I've heard some that sound like a lawnmower, running for hours. Honda, Yamaha are super quiet. Champion is rated 68 DB at 21 feet. Honda 49db @1/4 load and only 58db @ full load, almost 20 times quiter. On the decibel scale, the smallest audible sound (near total silence) is 0 dB. A sound 10 times more powerful is 10 dB. A sound 100 times more powerful than near total silence is 20 dB. A sound 1,000 times more powerful than near total silence is 30 dB...............


Blub. I mentioned earlier about the doghouse. You place a generator inside the doghouse and it makes it less noisy. Not saying that it decreases the db level, but it should divert the noise.


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## Dan V (May 21, 2006)

Well , all ideas aside the generator MUST be an inverter type as 2 of 3 of the wifes sewing machines are Husqvarna embroidery machines , basically very advanced computers and worth way more I like to think about !

NOISE !!! I understand , despise loud generators as long as I can remember . Damn , swore I would never buy a diesel truck or a generator - now look at what this RVing lifestyle has done to me . Got the truck and the generator is just down the road .

As far as a 3000w , that will never happen as they are way too heavy , ungassed 135 lbs. and I've got a bad back . The 2000w watt models weigh 40-60 lbs , that an easy one handed lift with very little back involved . We camp mainly in cooler areas , coastal and the mountians so running the A/C is no issue , actually if our Outback had not come with A/C I would not have had one installed . Not cheap , just that I don't care for hot weather and It actually makes the DW sick in very short order , heat stroke in a couple of minutes .

Its either gonna be a Honda or Kipor , don't need it immediately so I'll just watch EBay for awhile and see if I can find a deal .

Dan


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## Cajuncountry (Jan 4, 2007)

Dan V said:


> Well , all ideas aside the generator MUST be an inverter type as 2 of 3 of the wifes sewing machines are Husqvarna embroidery machines , basically very advanced computers and worth way more I like to think about !
> 
> NOISE !!! I understand , despise loud generators as long as I can remember . Damn , swore I would never buy a diesel truck or a generator - now look at what this RVing lifestyle has done to me . Got the truck and the generator is just down the road .
> 
> ...


I have to agree if weight is involved and the only use of this generator is for the sewing machines I would also go with a Honda. The price you will pay will not be that much more significant and you will not have to hear your wife complain if somehing ever went wrong. At least now you can say, "It's a Honda, it was not supposed to break." Good luck on your purchase.


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## MaeJae (May 12, 2005)

Can you ever really have too much power?









MaeJae


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

MaeJae said:


> Can you ever really have too much power?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You must be related to Tim Allen


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

> You must be related to Tin Allen


Hey, is he related to the Tin Man?
















Mark


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

LOL...caught and FUNNY....fixed.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

tdvffjohn said:


> LOL...caught and FUNNY....fixed.


Nothing gets by anyone here..


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## BLUB (Oct 23, 2005)

Fourwinds said:


> Noise is another consideration, please get a quiet one unless you're in the boonies by yourself where it won't bother anyone, I've heard some that sound like a lawnmower, running for hours. Honda, Yamaha are super quiet. Champion is rated 68 DB at 21 feet. Honda 49db @1/4 load and only 58db @ full load, almost 20 times quiter. On the decibel scale, the smallest audible sound (near total silence) is 0 dB. A sound 10 times more powerful is 10 dB. A sound 100 times more powerful than near total silence is 20 dB. A sound 1,000 times more powerful than near total silence is 30 dB...............


Blub. I mentioned earlier about the doghouse. You place a generator inside the doghouse and it makes it less noisy. Not saying that it decreases the db level, but it should divert the noise.
[/quote]

*Oops!*


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

I realize that there is a large posting in RV.net about generators and I would take most of the info with a grain of salt. One thing I have noticed on RV.net is there is no shortage of so called experts. But when I see someone say that a switcher power supply is tougher than a old linear power supply IE the old Tandy power supply is someone who does not know what they are talking about.

A switching power supply is a very complicated power supply and has some extremely high internal voltages and a lot of sensitive components. A failure of some key components can cause your input (120volts) to be seen on the output (12volts) Your lap top will loose it's magic smoke in a heart beat.

Now the old linear power supplies are almost bullet proof. They use Step down transformers a rectifier bridge some voltage regulation and filter caps. I have worked on both types of power supplies and switchers fail more often than linear supplies do. The reason switchers are so popular is because that are smaller and lighter than linear supplies. Switchers can create a lot of RF noise and fail more often. So be careful what you plug your laptop into.

Now if you want to be real safe than do what I do and connect a inverter to the batteries and run the laptops on it while the generator is charging the batteries. The laptop powers supplies use a minimum amount of components to keep them as small as posable


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## bentpixel (Sep 2, 2006)

Hi Dan,

Have you seen this watt meter. It will help stop guessing the current draw. Put the appliance in and run it. You can use the info to figure the battery time or generator loading.

Sounds like the Honda 1000i maybe what would work for your DW and the sewing thing. My DW has the Designer I. It is really cool watching the ghost stitch away.

My .02,
Scott


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## Dan V (May 21, 2006)

Hi Scott ,
Interesting watt meter there , I also believe the 1000w generator will do the job . 
Those sewing machines sure are something , the DW has a Rose and upgraded to the Designer I , she got a heck of a deal on the Designer I , just slightly above half of list , could'nt walk away from that kind of a deal . You should see it when both machines are going at once , what technology !


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