# Outback Leaking Again!!



## colcamper (Dec 19, 2006)

Well, we got our brand new camper back from the dealership on January 19 after they repaired MANY leaks and replaced the entire end cap which had been collecting water. The dealer had it a total of over three months. We took it camping last week for my children's winter break and guess what??? Sunday morning when my husband opened his closet to get some clothes, they were completely soaked, and water was running in at a steady pace.

What is the deal???? We have had it up to our eyeballs with problems with this 2007 Outback. I am curious to see what the general consensus is about how to deal with Keystone and our dealership. When we first encountered all the leaking after having the unit only 3 months, we requested a replacement, and keystone said this was not a severe enough case. Well, what is then???? We have been without our camper for more months than we have had it, all the while paying the payment and insurance and not having the use.

Any feedback would be much appreciated!!


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## brenda (Jan 3, 2007)

I would be demanding a new camper,, that is just unacceptable.. I really think they need to make this right.. We just got a 2007 and I really hope we dont encounter this.. I hope you get some satisfaction,, have you called keystone again??


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## colcamper (Dec 19, 2006)

brenda said:


> I would be demanding a new camper,, that is just unacceptable.. I really think they need to make this right.. We just got a 2007 and I really hope we dont encounter this.. I hope you get some satisfaction,, have you called keystone again??


I called Keystone yesterday, and the man we dealt with from the beginning of our problems is no longer with their "Team Challenger" department. Funny, huh? We did deal with his higher-up before, Steve Deen, but he was a complete jerk. The lady I spoke with who took the customer service rep's place has no record of any of our issues. Also very strange. I do not know who to speak with up the chain, and when I have tried to get the president of the company on the phone, they refuse to let me speak with him. They are not very helpful in that regard.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

I would think a call to a attorney and inquire about lemon laws in your state.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Can you tell us the model type? Your location and the type of weather that you had when it leaked would help also.

You will not have any luck getting a replacement but to fix leaks by a competent (key word there) dealer should only take a few hours.


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## firefighter320ms (Feb 19, 2007)

Wow, man I'd be so MAD. First off, that is a 2007 and yes you should be getting a new one after all the problems you've had.....no excuses. I would find out where the main office is and go over the whole story again with the head of Keystone if nothing else works. I mean apparently the unit is a lemon that they manufactured....if they can't fix it themselves. You may have to step up and say I'm not going to take less than........

Keep us updated.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

colcamper said:


> I would be demanding a new camper,, that is just unacceptable.. I really think they need to make this right.. We just got a 2007 and I really hope we dont encounter this.. I hope you get some satisfaction,, have you called keystone again??


I called Keystone yesterday, and the man we dealt with from the beginning of our problems is no longer with their "Team Challenger" department. Funny, huh? We did deal with his higher-up before, Steve Deen, but he was a complete jerk. The lady I spoke with who took the customer service rep's place has no record of any of our issues. Also very strange. I do not know who to speak with up the chain, and when I have tried to get the president of the company on the phone, they refuse to let me speak with him. They are not very helpful in that regard.
[/quote]

No need to talk to the pres he doesn't fix trailers.

Team Challenger should be able to provide you with names of all the area dealers that are approved to repair Keystone trailers. It does not have to be an Outback dealer.


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## colcamper (Dec 19, 2006)

tdvffjohn said:


> Can you tell us the model type? Your location and the type of weather that you had when it leaked would help also.
> 
> You will not have any luck getting a replacement but to fix leaks by a competent (key word there) dealer should only take a few hours.


The model is the Outback Sydney 31rqs. We absolutely fell in love with it. It is our first camper purchase ever, and we bought new instead of used to avoid problems. Well, here we are...........

We were camping in the North Georgia mountains. It rained overnight moderately. In our opinion, hard rain, soft rain, or mist, a brand new camper should NOT leak that badly.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

Sorry to hear about your problems. I have a 2007 29BHS and have had no leak problems (knock on wood). I've only had a couple minor problems, which my dealer corrected with no questions asked.

But you are correct - this situation with your dealer AND Keystone is totally unacceptable. I would make sure that they understand that they cannot just blow off a customer, now that they have your money. I would be contacting an attourney, immediately! The longer you wait, the less chance you have of getting an acceptable resolution.

And I'd sue for loss of usage, court costs, attourney fees, payments made, insurance paid - and I would include the dealership, as well. Doesn't sound like they are very competent.

Just my $.02

Good luck.

Mike


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

Colcamper

Have you been documenting your phone calls and verbal conversations with the dealer and Keystone? Reading between the lines here but it appears that you dealer is not doing quality work on the repairs. As CamperAndy pointed out this is not rocket science and should only take a minimum amount of time -if the repair staff is competent. Contact Keystone and find out what other repair firms -not necessarily Outback dealer in your area are approved by Keystone to perform warranty repairs. Go visit these places then take your Outback to the place that gives you the "best" feeling and examples of workmanship. You are not locked into an Outback Dealer just a repair firm approved by Keystone.

Have you sent any letters -legal written correspondence to the dealer and or Keystone yet? stating your dissatisfaction and demanding performance under the warranty? IF not hold off on the attorney as he will have little leverage to work with and you might just prolong the time frame getting repairs done properly. You can demand a new unit but under the Keystone Warranty as I read it, they are not obligated to an exchange/replacement of units. It has happened but it is very rare.

IMHO it is time to find a different place to get the repair(s) done first before starting the litigation game. You need to get the trailer apart and dried out to minimize/eliminate any long term potential for problems. Any water damaged engineered wood products and flooring in the trailer needs to be removed and replaced. You need to communicate to Keystone and the repair center of choice that you are adamant that this removal and replacement happens and you get to see it!

Good luck as a poor repair center will prolong your problems without resolution until the warranty expires. Go some place else!

Map Guy


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Sorry to hear about your troubles with your unit and with Keystone. I agree that it should be taken care of and I hope you have documented all your dealings wtih the dealer and with Keystone.

Good luck.

On another note, the latest issue of Camping World magazine had an article on their latest technology in finding leaks. You fill the trailer with air and spray the outside with a "soapy" liquid. When the air leaks out and bubbles up the soapy liquid, you find your leak.

Check it out.

Mark


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

HI!
I have an 07 31RQS, also, and, in October (bought/mfd. in August 06), I was using it and right above the TV shelf in the front queen bedroom, there was an apparent leak. Keystone approved the entire ceiling being removed to check for damage/mold/etc., and they claimed they couldn't find any. I KNOW they took the ceiling down, from the mess they made, unless they hauled in fiberglass insulation and put on my bed (ITCH!). I've been watching the area very closely, and so far, no more discoloration/etc. (there was a small area of discoloration on the ceiling). 
Like you said, in GA, the lemon law only applies to motorized vehicles. I'm in SW GA. I had an 06 27RSDS and it was a leak machine from the hot place. Leaked around every door, window, panel, you name it. The dealer worked with me and got it all fixed, though, finally. 
So far, the only problem I've had was a short in the water heater switch, the above-mentioned leak and a toilet seal being defective. Dealer fixed them all with no problem.
The thing to remember is to be "nice" but firm, when dealing with the dealership, also helps to mention you're a member of this forum, and have lots of fellow OB friends, and keep a log of phone calls/etc., and make them aware, by quoting dates/time/conversation, etc. Also, put it in writing to the dealership.
Best of luck!
Darlene











mswalt said:


> On another note, the latest issue of Camping World magazine had an article on their latest technology in finding leaks. You fill the trailer with air and spray the outside with a "soapy" liquid. When the air leaks out and bubbles up the soapy liquid, you find your leak.
> 
> Mark


Not to "burst your bubble"







, Mark, but they use this pressurized testing on my 06 AND 07. Bottom line, the machine's not worth a flip!! I found the leaks in the 06 when that kind of testing couldn't.








Darlene


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## jjmaurer (Feb 17, 2007)

colcamper said:


> Well, we got our brand new camper back from the dealership on January 19 after they repaired MANY leaks and replaced the entire end cap which had been collecting water. The dealer had it a total of over three months. We took it camping last week for my children's winter break and guess what??? Sunday morning when my husband opened his closet to get some clothes, they were completely soaked, and water was running in at a steady pace.
> 
> What is the deal???? We have had it up to our eyeballs with problems with this 2007 Outback. I am curious to see what the general consensus is about how to deal with Keystone and our dealership. When we first encountered all the leaking after having the unit only 3 months, we requested a replacement, and keystone said this was not a severe enough case. Well, what is then???? We have been without our camper for more months than we have had it, all the while paying the payment and insurance and not having the use.
> 
> Any feedback would be much appreciated!!


How awful! contact Trailer Life Magazine and tell them your problems. They contact the dealer and maker and intercede for you with usually positive results. email [email protected] web site:trailerlife.com Hope they can help.


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Hi colcamper

Sorry to hear about your troubles









If there's anything I learned in the process of dealing with Keystone directly, it is to get every name of every person that you talk to, because they will conveniently forget to document anything on their end. I would also find out about getting reinbursed for any payments that you had to make while your Outback was at the dealer. I hear that this is quite common for people to ask for and they get it.


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## FraTra (Aug 21, 2006)

colcamper,

You mentioned you live in GA, did you purchase from Camping Time RV? My OB was with them 4 months before a satifactory fix. It may take some time but if your persistant they have to fix it to your satisfaction. If your dealer is not performing to your satisfaction insist on using a different one.

I had a leak and floor damage and DEMANDED a replacement for weeks and talked to everyone I could at the dealership and with Keystone but didn't get what I wanted. I did get a new Pergo floor replacement and a promise my leaks are fixed. That promise and $5 will get me a cup of coffee at Starbucks. I have decided that I will use my OB as much as possible, but the first sign of any more major problems I will hitch it up and trade for something else ASAP.

Good luck.


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

Looks like the Keystone QA hasn't gotten very far!

Our OUTBACK leaked in several spots the day I left the dealer as well. (in 2002) (doors, windows, antenae, skylight, etc)
It took a lot of trips to the dealer to get them all fixed RIGHT.

Aside from these type defects that should NEVER leave the factory...
My dealers maintenance dept was another major problem.

Larry, Moe, and Curly were there trying to patch things up....and didn't do it right.

Anyway, don't give up. There are some very good suggestions above. If you get nowhere...there is always the TL squad or legal action.

Good luck.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2007)

Just a thought, we subscribe to Trailer Life magazine as well as receive the Camping World magazine. I read in every issue of their help line that gets pretty good results. I don't know the response time or the process, but maybe media help can get you some results. The best to you, we had a leak problem in our 25FBS and after three tries, a face to face with the dealership general manager and the possibility of legal help got satisfactory results. Hope it works out for you!

enjoy & travel safe,



colcamper said:


> Well, we got our brand new camper back from the dealership on January 19 after they repaired MANY leaks and replaced the entire end cap which had been collecting water. The dealer had it a total of over three months. We took it camping last week for my children's winter break and guess what??? Sunday morning when my husband opened his closet to get some clothes, they were completely soaked, and water was running in at a steady pace.
> 
> What is the deal???? We have had it up to our eyeballs with problems with this 2007 Outback. I am curious to see what the general consensus is about how to deal with Keystone and our dealership. When we first encountered all the leaking after having the unit only 3 months, we requested a replacement, and keystone said this was not a severe enough case. Well, what is then???? We have been without our camper for more months than we have had it, all the while paying the payment and insurance and not having the use.
> 
> Any feedback would be much appreciated!!


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## Scott and Jamie (Aug 27, 2006)

If it was me I would call this Number 937-596-6849 It is the corperate office of Thor industries. Ask fo Mr. Walter L. Bennett. He is the CFO. Calmly talk to his secretary about the problems with your trailer and with keystone correcting it. Explain about how much time your family has missed camping and the money you have spent not camping. Leave your name address and call back number and cross your fingers. HTH

Scott


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## colcamper (Dec 19, 2006)

FraTra said:


> colcamper,
> 
> You mentioned you live in GA, did you purchase from Camping Time RV? My OB was with them 4 months before a satifactory fix. It may take some time but if your persistant they have to fix it to your satisfaction. If your dealer is not performing to your satisfaction insist on using a different one.
> 
> ...


As a matter of fact, we did purchase it at Camping Time. They seem to be extremely slow with repairs. Our feeling is that if a newly purchased camper comes in for leaks, it should be given priority. The most Keystone has done for us is one mold test, and they gave us a check for $300, which was supposed to cover three months of payments, plus insurance. I DON'T THINK SO!! That doesn't begin to cover our costs. We requested follow-up mold testing since mold can grow over time, and they refused that. When we explained that our children both have allergy problems, the CS rep at Keystone very rudely said, "Well, then you probably shouldn't be camping anyway because camping by its very nature subjects your children to all sorts of allergens." They also would not extend our warranty as far as we wanted. He said three months was the most they would be willing to do.

If we didn't like the camper so much, we would be ditching it at the dealer and walking away. But we're hooked on camping and are hoping for some positive outcome to all this headache!!


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## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

colcamper said:


> colcamper,
> 
> You mentioned you live in GA, did you purchase from Camping Time RV? My OB was with them 4 months before a satifactory fix. It may take some time but if your persistant they have to fix it to your satisfaction. If your dealer is not performing to your satisfaction insist on using a different one.
> 
> ...


As a matter of fact, we did purchase it at Camping Time. They seem to be extremely slow with repairs. Our feeling is that if a newly purchased camper comes in for leaks, it should be given priority. The most Keystone has done for us is one mold test, and they gave us a check for $300, which was supposed to cover three months of payments, plus insurance. I DON'T THINK SO!! That doesn't begin to cover our costs. We requested follow-up mold testing since mold can grow over time, and they refused that. When we explained that our children both have allergy problems, the CS rep at Keystone very rudely said, "Well, then you probably shouldn't be camping anyway because camping by its very nature subjects your children to all sorts of allergens." They also would not extend our warranty as far as we wanted. He said three months was the most they would be willing to do.

If we didn't like the camper so much, we would be ditching it at the dealer and walking away. But we're hooked on camping and are hoping for some positive outcome to all this headache!!
[/quote]

colcamper

The confirmation of a poor dealer really suggests a conversation with Keystone on other authorized warranty repair centers available in the area. There has got to be one or more besides this lame dealer in your area. Remember the repair center doesn't have to be an Outback dealer or even a selling dealer!

Good luck on this poor situation -that is being prolonged / made worse by a poor dealer.

Map Guy


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

NDJollyMon said:


> Larry, Moe, and Curly were there trying to patch things up....and didn't do it right.
> 
> Good luck.


Wow! What a combination! Gilligan assembles them, and Larry, Moe, and Curly try to fix the mistakes!

I know this is going to sound funny - but our salesman at Pontiac RV has the nickname "Curly." You didn't, by any chance, go to Pontiac RV, did you?

Mike


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## FraTra (Aug 21, 2006)

colcamper said:


> colcamper,
> 
> You mentioned you live in GA, did you purchase from Camping Time RV? My OB was with them 4 months before a satifactory fix. It may take some time but if your persistant they have to fix it to your satisfaction. If your dealer is not performing to your satisfaction insist on using a different one.
> 
> ...


As a matter of fact, we did purchase it at Camping Time. They seem to be extremely slow with repairs. Our feeling is that if a newly purchased camper comes in for leaks, it should be given priority. The most Keystone has done for us is one mold test, and they gave us a check for $300, which was supposed to cover three months of payments, plus insurance. I DON'T THINK SO!! That doesn't begin to cover our costs. We requested follow-up mold testing since mold can grow over time, and they refused that. When we explained that our children both have allergy problems, the CS rep at Keystone very rudely said, "Well, then you probably shouldn't be camping anyway because camping by its very nature subjects your children to all sorts of allergens." They also would not extend our warranty as far as we wanted. He said three months was the most they would be willing to do.

If we didn't like the camper so much, we would be ditching it at the dealer and walking away. But we're hooked on camping and are hoping for some positive outcome to all this headache!!
[/quote]

colcamper,

I got tired of messing around with them and contacted Good Sams Action Line and they sent them a letter, plus I filed BBB complaints aganst the dealer and Keystone. I recieved calls pretty quick after that but the dealer still took 2 months for the last repair. I think they may have been taking a long time on purpose. Keystone couldn't understand why I wasn't moved to the front of the line.

One thing is for SURE, I will never purchase from them again and will try to help others not make that mistake also.

Sorry! Can you tell I'm a little bitter?

BTW, don't get me wrong I love the OB. Most of my problems and feelings are cased by the dealer not the camper.


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