# Suburban Towing Question



## Fanatical1 (Jan 9, 2006)

Hi Guys, great site and very informative. I have searched and read a number
of posts regading towing capabilities, but still feel I need to ask the question.... So bare with my newbie questions.....

I have a 05 Z71 Suburban, 5.3 with 3.42 gears. The book says it will tow 7400#s.

I plan to pull my future Outback to most of my destinations with not many hilly areas since we live in Ohio. I know the options add weight and I don't want to overtax the Suburban, however, still want the largest TT I can tow.

My first inclination is the 25RSS would be the max weight, but then I am curious if I can go to the 29BHS with 500 more lbs? Assume I get most options available on the Outback.

Which models of the Outback in your opinion would be too heavy for the vehicle?

Thanks in advance for your info.....

Mark


----------



## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Mark welcome to Outbackers.com action

There are sooo many different opnions on the subject. The weights listed at the Keystone website are getting better but they still don't account for your gear, water, full propain bottles etc so make sure to leave yourself plenty of spare. Now for my opnion, I wouldn't feel comfortable with anything over a 26'er but there are plenty on here that do.

Bill.


----------



## glennsteers (Apr 25, 2005)

Mark,

WOW! Keystone has really adjusted their weights on their website!

Here's a really good rule of thumb for safe, enjoyable trailering:

Stay within 80% of your tow capacity...90% is really pushing it.

For you, 80% is 5920 lbs. First, subtract the dry weight (which appears to include options now) and then subtract total family weight and around 1,000 lbs for propane, liquids, gear, food & hitch.

The 25RSS may be OK if you have a small family. The 29BHS, in my humble opinion, is way too much trailer for your truck. The 21RS is a slamdunk!


----------



## Morrowmd (Feb 22, 2005)

Mark,

As you can see by my sig I tow a 26RS (about same wt as 25RSS) with a Tahoe, 5.3L & 3.73. I have no problems on flat terrain but struggle on big hills. I would not want to tow anything heavier.

If you had the 4.10 rear, I would say maybe go with the 29BHS. It is your call, but I think you would be stressing the tranny with the heavier trailer. If you do go this route, make sure you have a tranny temp sensor & maybe go to synthetic trans fluid.

Also may be worth it to get a Hensley hitch. Big $$$ but if you can roll it into the deal it won't hurt as much.

Good luck, hope to see you back here talking about your new rig!

-Matt


----------



## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

I pull a 27RSDS with a 2000 Suburban with 5.3L and 3.73 gears, it does a good job in the flats but doesn't like the hills much. I think that you would be pushing your limits with a 29 but the 26 would be OK.

Gary

PS: Welcome to the site and the best of luck in your shopping!!


----------



## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

Fire44 said:


> I pull a 27RSDS with a 2000 Suburban with 5.3L and 3.73 gears, it does a good job in the flats but doesn't like the hills much. I think that you would be pushing your limits with a 29 but the 26 would be OK.
> 
> Gary
> 
> ...


Gary, just checking....You did see that he said 3.42 gears right?
My opinion is that anything bigger than a 21RS would be misery in the hills.


----------



## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

Morrowmd said:


> Also may be worth it to get a Hensley hitch. Big $$$ but if you can roll it into the deal it won't hurt as much.
> 
> -Matt
> [snapback]71813[/snapback]​


Mark,

There are quite a few folks here who regard the Hensley hitch as something wonderful and magical. While I am not about to claim there is anything better, for about 3 grand it should be good. Other people think you can get other hitches that are (pick a number) 75%, 85%, as good for about 25% of the price of the Hensley. But the argument goes,"how can you put a price on the safety of yourself, family, other motorists, when the Hensley only costs $2,300 more?" Obviously not everyone is convinced, but if you buy the argument and have the dough, go for it. Also, if your tow vehicle is marginal for towing a large and long trailer, the Hensley may make more sense.

But, you were asking about the size of trailer advisable for towing with your Suburban. Lots of experienced people think the 80% "rule" shouldn't be violated, but this is really a guideline, albeit a good one IMO. I advise leaving some cushion or margin. This will put less strain on you and your Suburban. It's not fun to tow when your truck is performing badly due to maximum towed weight. Although care and caution when towing in flat and open terrain will allow you to maximize your trailer size, be mindful that adverse conditions could be more than you are prepared for. That's when the 80% rule is a GOOD thing.

Good luck. Let us know what you decide.

Bill


----------



## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Fanatical1,

Hi, and welcome to Outbackers1!

I pulled a 26RS with my 1500 Suburban with a 5.3 L with 3.73 gears for a bout a year. It really struggled up hills. I realize there aren't many hills in Ohio (I grew up in Illinois) but I'm sure you don't plan on staying in Ohio all the time. I agree that your TV will struggle with anything much bigger than a 21RS, IMHO.

Personally, I wouldn't go any bigger. BTW, how many in the family? Do you need the extra beds?

Mark


----------



## glennsteers (Apr 25, 2005)

cookie9933 said:


> There are quite a few folks here who regard the Hensley hitch as something wonderful and magical...Also, if your tow vehicle is marginal for towing a large and long trailer, the Hensley may make more sense.


Bill,

I agree that the Hensley is "wonderful" and "magical"...but let me be clear, a Hensley won't let you tow more than your factory stated capacities. I think that the "Hensleyites" will agree that the claim made by Hensley is that you can fudge your wheelbase limitations, NOT your tow limitations. The only way you can address tow capacity shortcomings is to either reduce your "trailer expectations" or upgrade your tow vehicle. Period.


----------



## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

Mark,

Well i'm on the oppisite side as I have a 2005 chevy crew cab, 5.3L auto 4x4 with 3.42 rear and I pull a 29BHS. The vehicle has a 143.5 " WD and I use a reece dual cam sway and weight distribution setup and my vehicle does great on most terrain. I live in NY and travel mostly to NJ shore. truck for 95% of the time will be running 2500 rpm's to maintain 65-70 with overdrive licking in on the flats and downhill. If I pull up hills in NY truck will downshift to second and run 4000rpm to maintain the 65 for short bursts.

My truck and rig are only a few months old and have only been out on 3 trips so far, 2 1/2 hours the longest trip but with the family and gear including firewood and the works we did great. Would I consider it pushing the truck? Yes, but isn't that what trucks are made for? My truck is limited to 7400Lb towing capacity, the trailer is 5700 on the cabinet loaded. with gear int the trailer I would say 6000.

The truck weights 5150 with a 7000 lb limit with a 670 lbs tongue family of 4 at 450lbs, 150 for gas still gives me 580lbs for gear in the truck( i figure no more than 380) and another 1400lbs in the trailer before i'm 100%.

total would be 7000 + 7400 = 14,400
Approx. running 6800 + 6000 = 12,800

I guess I'm running about 88%


----------



## Fanatical1 (Jan 9, 2006)

Thanks for the great info guys!

No matter what I calculate the towing capacity versus the estimated weight of the trailer, there is no substitute for the experience people have who are actually using Subs or Tahoes or equivelent SUV's to pull these trailers. Thanks again for sharing your experience.

I would consider swapping the rear gear out as an option, but I still prefer to not over-tax the Suburban. the 4:10 gear ups the tow weight to 8200#s according to the manual.

Gary,

The 27RSDS is 300 pound heavier, according to the 06 brochure, than the 29BHS. Go figuer??

25RSS = 4695# Dry Weight less options. Option Designer and Comfort = 500#s
Total = 5195# plus 1000# or so for proprane, family and gear = 6195# minimum.

29BHS = 5250# Dry Weight less options. Option Designer and Comfort = 500#s
Total = 5750# plus 1000# or so for propane, family and gear = 6750#s minimum.

We have two girls ages 4 and 7. Can't wait......

If I would have asked the same questions but told you I had the 4:10 gear what trailers are still too heavy for me?

Mark


----------



## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

mswalt said:


> I pulled a 26RS with my 1500 Suburban with a 5.3 L with 3.73 gears for a bout a year. It really struggled up hills.[snapback]71822[/snapback]​


We have the 4.10s and a 26 RS. Driving up Colorado mountain passes I would not want to be towing anything more than our 26RS. The 3.42 gears and the small-block V8 combination are going to be a challenge for you.

Randy


----------



## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

Fanatical1 said:


> If I would have asked the same questions but told you I had the 4:10 gear what trailers are still too heavy for me?
> Mark
> [snapback]71828[/snapback]​


I would look at a 26 if you had the 4.10.
If you think about a gear change, keep in mind that you hafta change both front and rear gears on a 4X4. You'd be lookin at close to 3 grand to do that.


----------



## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Katrina said:


> If you think about a gear change, keep in mind that you hafta change both front and rear gears on a 4X4. You'd be lookin at close to 3 grand to do that.
> [snapback]71847[/snapback]​


Shop the price, I had a Bronco's gears changed to 4:56 for off road and it was $600 and axle and that's the going rate here, obviously not a dealer

Bill..


----------



## eyeguy (Sep 7, 2004)

Welcome action

One more vote for the 25rss or smaller unless you only plan on towing very short distances.


----------



## bill_pfaff (Mar 11, 2005)

Mark,

Iâ€™m with most all the other posts.

Iâ€™m pulling a 25 RSS with a 2004 Suburban 5.3 and like the others; Iâ€™d say it does a nice job on the flatlands such as we have here on Delmarva. We do some foot hills up in Lancaster PA but I try to take it easy when going up some of the steeper grades.

My personal rules, regardless of the terrain, are to always run without the overdrive, (your Suburban should have a tow setting), and keep it under 60 on the flats, less than that on the steeper grades. We did a trip from Milford Delaware to Myrtle Beach South Carolina this past summer and it did well as long as I stuck to my personal rules as stated above.

If I had to pick one, my comfort level would be with the 21 footer but like I said I seem to be doing OK with the 25RSS. I believe the 26 footer weighs about the same as the 25 but more length tends to accumulate more stuff and that translates directly into higher gear related weight.

Welcome to the site and congratulations on your choice. TV aside, I think you will be happy with whatever Outback TT you pick.

Other recommendations are: 
1) Go with one of the dual cam hitches if not the Hensley
2) Prodigy Break Controller (I finally got mine from Santa this year)
3) Seriously consider synthetic fluids

Bill


----------



## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

Hi and welcome

My last setup was a 26rs with a 1500 burb 5.7 and 3.42 gears. It pulled ok but the tranny had better ideas (roasting) twice. With your burb I would stick to the 25rss or the 21rs. Tranny cooler and temp gauge would be a must with that tranny and gears.Good luck and don't believe the salesman he will say it would tow anything.

John


----------



## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

Welcome Mark to the site 
I personally would stay under the 25RSS
Just because you are in a flat area
eventually your gonna want to go somewhere else
And then you're gonna say to yourself I should of done this or that.
Just my $.02

Don


----------



## old_tidefan (Nov 23, 2005)

Mark,
I was in your position last month. I have a tahoe and wanted to get what was safest to be pulled with it while still getting the most in the TT. There are some sweet floor plans in the larger models and the dealer assured me the tahoe could handle them. After a lot or research (and reading former posts on this site) we decided on the 21rs (and I found an awesome deal on a used one







). The side silde would be nice but overall are very happy with it. After pulling it a few times I think I could have been ok with the 25rs. But, I enjoy the peace of mind of towing the smaller trailer....

I'm sure you'll enjoy whatever you decide.


----------



## z-family (Oct 2, 2004)




----------



## ssrrchase (Oct 20, 2004)

We have a 1500 Burb w/ the 26rs. Flats no problem, less than a 6% grade = 50+mph, greater than a 6% grade I run around 30-40mph. (The grade out of Salt Lake going east was a steady 25mpg - can't remember the grade but I want to say 7-8%) Took it on Highway 70 thru Colorado and had no problems. The slower speed just lets me see more









-Steve


----------



## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

According to my Horsepower Calculator, my F250 could pull that 7% grade at 57 mph with a 5 mph headwind. 62 MPH with no headwind.

Horsepower estimator 
Enter the following information: 
Maximum Height (in inches)	121	Enter the height of the tallest vehicle
Maximum Width (in inches)	96	Enter the width of the widest vehicle
Minimum Ground Clearance (in inches)	14	Enter the ground clearance for the vehicle that sits the closest to the ground
Desired speed (mph)	57	
Anticipated headwind (mph)	5	Note: Tailwind does not help like headwinds hurt.
Anticipated grade (steepness) of the road	7%	For level ground, enter 0
Total combined weight (in pounds, tow vehicle and trailer) 15,000 
Elevation (in feet) 10,000 
Elevation factor	0%	0% for turbo-charged or super-charged diesel engines, 2% for gas and non turbo-charged or super-charged diesel engines.
DO NOT ENTER BELOW THIS LINE 
Horsepower needed to combat: 
Rolling resistance	33.78	(Speed x combined weight x (6.75 + (0.074 x Speed))) / 375,000
Air resistance	77.07	(Frontal area x Speed x Speed x Speed x drag coefficient) / 375
Grade resistance	173.60	(Speed x %Grade x combined weight) / 37,500
Elevation	0.00	(Elevation / 1000) * Elevation factor
327.11	Total horsepower required.


----------



## Humpty (Apr 20, 2005)

Wow! As expected, lots of feedback to this one.

I thought I would be ok (04 Burb, 05 28BHS).

I did not want a smaller trailer.

I wish wish wish wish wish that I had more Tow Vehicle.

I do fine in the flats. Any grade is painful.

How will I ever make it to Bristol?


----------



## bearlyrunning (Sep 10, 2005)

Hi, Mark.
We pull a 21RS with a Sub, but have the 3:73 gears. I think it matches up very well. If I could have fit more trailer into my driveway and was buying new, I would have gone a little bigger. My buddy pulls a 25rss with a Durango with some high gear ratio( high 3's I think) and does fine.
I tend to be very conservative, go slow, and have driven rigs for so long I'm used to going 50 or 45 up a hill.You can pull a lot of weight for a short time but it will be hard on everything else. I would take the trailer for a test if you have any worries at all and find a good little hill to see what you are getting into.
Good luck on your new OB, these are great trailers and a great bunch of people to answer your questions.
John


----------



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

We had a 2000 Ford Expedition with 6000lbs tow rating and after looking at all the Outbacks, we HAD to have the 28RSS. Simply put, the slide couch and the bunk house were way too much for us to overlook.

That left me only one choice...upgrade the TV. We now have a 2004 Suburban 2500 with 4:10 and a 6.0 liter engine and Quadrasteer (but that is a different post) and I can pull our 28RSS FULLY loaded (we dry camp 99.999% of the time) with food, water, everything over the Oregon Mtn range with no problem.

Sorry to say it, but I think you either need to reconsider your TT choice or bite the bullet and upgrade the TV as well.

Nothing is more important then a safe family....


----------



## maverick (Mar 26, 2005)

Mark,
I HAD a 1500 Suburban, 5.3 and 3.73, towing a 28RSS and went from Illinois to the Outer Banks. The hills in West Virginia convinced me that I did not have the power that I needed to tow the trailer in a safe manner. I do travel in the midwest, but also love the mountains out west and want to be able to visit them and actually not burn out a transmission and be able to go faster than 30mph on a 6-7% grade. I upgraded to the tow vehicle in my signature and have no problems. It is not a fun experience towing more weight than you should! Good luck in your choice of trailer and the important thing is to get one and spend time with the family seeing the country and the people in it, safely!









Good luck!


----------



## aplvlykat (Jan 25, 2004)

Ok I will bite but it sound like I am with the rest. I started out with a 2003 Tahoe 4.8 and 3:42 gears pulling my 25rss(the dealer and chevy said I could pull the weight). It seemed like it would do alright on the flats but if there was any head wind or hills, forget it. Within the year I ruined the rear gears and upgraded to 4:10's. This made a world of difference but I was still not happy with the power. So I upgraded the TV to my current rig and it pulls it like it wasn't there. So I think you will be OK pulling the 25rss or 26 but you should upgrade your gears. Kirk


----------



## glennsteers (Apr 25, 2005)

Out of curiosity, has any 25RSS owners taken their rig to the scales??

If so, what did your trailer weigh with gear? My 26RS weighed 6100 on the scales, which is exactly 1000 lbs more that the updated Keystone weights.

NOTE: That did NOT include family!


----------



## aplvlykat (Jan 25, 2004)

No I haven't done that yet but it is on my list of things to do. I would also like to know the true weight. Kirk


----------



## bill_pfaff (Mar 11, 2005)

Have an 05 25RSS that I have weighed, Numbers are as follows:

TT-25RSS	
Brochure	
Dry Weight	4655
Tong Weight	306
Carrying Capacity	1345
Total Brochure	6306

TT Sticker	
"GAWR 
(Front)"	2750
"GAWR 
(Rear)"	2750
Total Sticker	5500

TT Actual	
Front	2980
Rear	2720
Total Actual	5700

2004 Suburban	
TV (Book)	
"GAWR 
(Front)"	3600
"GAWR 
(Rear)"	4000
GVWR	7200
Max Trailer Weight	7500
GCWR	13000

TV Actual	
Front	3180
Rear	4140

Gross Actual Combined Vehicle Weight	
13020


----------



## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

Bill

Our those weights listed with your Outback... empty or full of gear?
Is your Burb loaded or empty (people and gear)?

Thor


----------

