# New To Outbackers!!!



## jeepinchris (Apr 7, 2009)

Good afternoon everyone.. It is nice to be a part of a group of camping fans. And from what I have read you all seem really knowledgeable when it comes to outback campers. I think I just commited to my first real camper purchase. About a 1.5 yrs ago I purchased a 1998 trail lite Bantam (17' hybrid) and was somewhat pleased. With kids in the house getting bigger, the wife decided that we have to upgrade.....

Tonight I pretty much committed to a 2003 Outback 25RSS. I am a little nervous and was hoping for some advice. I really think this camper is at the limit of what I should pull with my truck. If anyone has any input, I would greatly appreciate it. Below are my specs.

2004 Dodge Dakota, 4X4, 4.7L V-8, aftermarket tow package. \

I sure hope this is enough truck to pull this camper. I have not taken possession of the camper yet so I still have a little time.

BTW, I look forward to some friendly chats around the campfire in the very near future.....

Chris & Family


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## outback loft (Sep 22, 2008)

Welcome to Outbackers.

I think you are definitely at your max, if not over for that truck It would also be a lot of trailer to have to control sway with that truck. I know people who are towing trailers in that size range with that truck, but I also live on an island where I have no real inclines, and not much highway driving. You will be recommended to buy a Hensley or ProPride hitch by some members, but I recommend that since I have no experience with it.

Again, Welcome to Outbackers, and I hope you find any Information you need.


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## tdux3+j (Mar 28, 2009)

let me first say congrats on stepping up as well as turnning here for advice.

I myself just joined this forum after upgrading from a Starcraft Antigua 21sso hybrid to a new 2009 250rs. I used to tow my Antigua with an isuzu axiom that everyone would tell me was too much weight. I loved it but unfortunately I knew I had to upgrade to a hemi durango for the new 250rs.

your Dakota has a after market hitch, but do you have an upgraded transmission cooler? bottom line you need all the things a factory tow package has to insure that you do not have breakdowns. what kind of rear gear do you have? this should be listed somewhere on a tag in the door jam or glove box. For that kind of weight you are going to need at least a 355 gear. diffrent gear ratios in the rear determine how much weight you are supposed to tow. for instance, a 2005 Durango with the 391 gear can tow up to 8,500 lbs. with the two wheel drive. mine with the 355 is rated for 7,200 lbs.

you're probably fine, but you may want to consider a bigger vehicle in the future. the good news is most people don't want theirs.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Where are you from? Traveling around the PNW is a lot different then say Wyoming/Kansas. BIG mountains toss a whole new problem at you.

Please give us a bit more info the trucks setup and we can help advise you.

Do you "Dry" camp or stay at big parks (means...how much stuff/gear do you bring)


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Welcome to the Outbackers!!

I think to be safe, I would definitely go bigger....


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## jeepinchris (Apr 7, 2009)

Thanks for the input everyone.... This is not really the news I was looking for







. The truck tag states that I have 355 gears and the a GVWR of 6010lbs. I live in the St Louis, MO area and most of my towing will be within a hour radius. On an occation I will pull is about 4 hrs away but the ground is pretty flat being in the midwest. I was hoping that a few people would chime in with a similar setup but reality tells me that most people would have a bigger vehicle. In regards to the transmission cooler...I do not have one. I will consider adding one but in the end I may be better off upgrading the truck instead of adding parts.

Please continue to chime in with advise.... I really hope I am not going to regret this purchase as I really wanted to get a bigger camper without upgrading the truck.

Chris


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

For the 2003 25RSS, this site says the dry weight is 4,895. 
http://www.moderntrailer.com/dlrindexsend_...058282-2003.htm

You say your truck can do 6,010 which puts you right on 80% safe limit.

This is assuming there is NOTHING else added to the trailer and that this dry weight is correct.

Add propane...water (240 lbs with full tank), awning...AC unit...stove...then all your personal stuff and I'd say you are a lot closer to 6500-6750lbs.

We had the same problem when I bought out 28RSS. I had a Ford Expedition at the time and the member of this forum explained to me that SUV wasn't going to really be the right tow vehicle for that trailer. Long story short...got the 28RSS and a Suburban 3/4 to pull it with.

Bottom line is we are not trying to talk everyone into a new truck, rather we are simply stating our opinion on safe towing limits.


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## Doxie-Doglover-Too (Jan 25, 2007)

experience shows if you are having to ask..you probably already know the answer in your gut









Going with a set up are not really sure of, uncomfortable with or are doubting in anyway will cause you to worry and agonize. Get bigger truck or lighter trailer and know you are doing the right thing for you and your family and others on the road


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## mikenkristipa (May 11, 2008)

I used to have the same truck - Dodge Dakota 2004 - V8, 4.7 etc. I would not want to pull my Outback (25RSS) with that truck. I used to have a Coachman Captiva 23RS and pulled that with the Dakota. It did alright but I was at the max with that truck. The wheelbase is the main reason. The power of the truck was enough but the stability was shakey. The Ram I have now and the 25RSS are a great combination - I feel much more comfortable on the road now than I did with the previous set up.

Be careful and don't listen to what the dealer tells you - they just want to sell you a trailer.

Just my 2 cents.

Mike


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## russlg (Jul 21, 2008)

I will add a question no one else has asked. How much is the Outback? '03 was the first year for the 25RSS. I just paid $9,900 for a 2005 RSS that was barely used. While I consider this to be on the lower $$$ scale, you need to be aware that you may get more bang for your buck with another Outback if this '03 is priced over $10K. There are a few newer ones on this sites "For sale" section for under $15K. Unless the '03 is a steal, keep your eyes open... I got mine off Craigslist.... You can get a NEW '09 210RS from Holman for 14,950. That was a benchmark I had when looking at used. I asked myself "Why would I pay over $13,000 for used if I could buy a 210RS for $14,950"?


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## jeepinchris (Apr 7, 2009)

The guy I was talking to was initialy asking 11.700 for it. I explained to him that average retail for his camper acccording to NADA was 9400. He was willing to sell it for that. BTW, I would happily upgrade my truck if I could get a 25RSS under 10,000. I appreciate all of the inputs I have received up to this point. I have found another truck that I am looking into. It is a 2002 Chevy Silverado 2500HD. I think it is more than capable.

I figured I would fill you all in on the conversation I had with the boss of the house (wife) regarding all these comment. I approched her and said that based on the input from the camping pros, we either have to look as a smaller camper of upgrade the triuck...... Her first comment was "So, when are we going truck shopping."

Chris


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Chris & Family said:


> The guy I was talking to was initialy asking 11.700 for it. I explained to him that average retail for his camper acccording to NADA was 9400. He was willing to sell it for that. BTW, I would happily upgrade my truck if I could get a 25RSS under 10,000. I appreciate all of the inputs I have received up to this point. I have found another truck that I am looking into. It is a 2002 Chevy Silverado 2500HD. I think it is more than capable.
> 
> I figured I would fill you all in on the conversation I had with the boss of the house (wife) regarding all these comment. I approched her and said that based on the input from the camping pros, we either have to look as a smaller camper of upgrade the triuck...... *Her first comment was "So, when are we going truck shopping."*
> 
> Chris


Don't let her get away...you got yourself I GREAT wife there.....


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Oregon_Camper said:


> The guy I was talking to was initialy asking 11.700 for it. I explained to him that average retail for his camper acccording to NADA was 9400. He was willing to sell it for that. BTW, I would happily upgrade my truck if I could get a 25RSS under 10,000. I appreciate all of the inputs I have received up to this point. I have found another truck that I am looking into. It is a 2002 Chevy Silverado 2500HD. I think it is more than capable.
> 
> I figured I would fill you all in on the conversation I had with the boss of the house (wife) regarding all these comment. I approched her and said that based on the input from the camping pros, we either have to look as a smaller camper of upgrade the triuck...... *Her first comment was "So, when are we going truck shopping."*
> 
> Chris


Don't let her get away...you got yourself I GREAT wife there.....








[/quote]
x2 there!









I hope you got a recording of that conversation. It can come in handy when she sees the bill for the truck (or at least it would have for me!!!)


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

Chris & Family said:


> Her first comment was "So, when are we going truck shopping."


You get your cake and get to eat it to.....................mine as well go bigger and newer on the truck and trailer.........You have the BOSS right where you want her now


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

Oregon_Camper said:


> For the 2003 25RSS, this site says the dry weight is 4,895.
> http://www.moderntrailer.com/dlrindexsend_...058282-2003.htm
> 
> You say your truck can do 6,010 which puts you right on 80% safe limit.
> ...


First off - WELCOME to Outbackers! You'll find everyone friendly and eager to help, here. So here goes;

Oregon_Camper is correct, when telling you that the dry weight doesn't include propane, awning, etc. The manufacturers like to advertise weights as light as they can, which is kinda deceiving. They all do it. But I think OC must have overlooked the fact that you are stating the GVWR and comparing that number to the weight of the trailer.

The GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) is the maximum load your truck can carry (load on the front and rear axles of the truck) - not how much the towed trailer can weigh. (Some RV dealers don't know this either.) To see if you are at or over your GVWR for the Dakota, you need to know the curb weight of the truck, then add the weight of all passengers and gear, then add the tongue weight for the trailer. I'd bet you are over your allowable weight rating. So head to the scales and get everything weighed.

Then there is the GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating). This is the maximum total combined weight that the vehicle and anything it is pulling is allowed to weigh according to the design specifications of Dodge. This rating can also be used as a gauge for what towing performance might be like. The closer you get to this rating, the worse towing performance may get, especially in windy or hilly conditions. I'd bet you will be over this number, too.

Then there is wheelbase length. The experts recommend that you should have a 130" wheel base, or longer, to pull a 25' trailer. Anything less and you increase the "tail wagging the dog" factor. Sway will be a big concern.

I suggest you read this: David's RV Tips.

I know this is not the advice you were hoping to get, but if it were me, I would consider trading up to a 3/4-ton pickup. You might be able to get by with a 1/2-ton, if it is the HD model with towing package (tranny cooler, bigger brakes, larger capacity radiator, etc.), but you will most likely be taxing a half-ton truck, too, when the 25RSS is loaded for a long trip.

Just concerned about your safety, and the safety of your loved ones and others on the road.

Mike


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## jeepinchris (Apr 7, 2009)

Well folks, I went and looked at a 2006 1500HD and it is a nice truck. When it came down to brass tacks, the boss buckled. " Are you sure we need a bigger truck?" I then explained with my limited knowledge how the weight rating factors in what can be pulled. Obviuosly, we are still shopping for a truck and or smaller camper. I did find a 23 RSS. I am still working on smoothing things over with the wife and explaining that we will need a bigger camper in the future.

On another note, my father offered to trade me trucks. He has a 2002 Chevy 1500. The tow rating on his truck is only about 500lbs more than mine. I am not sure his truck is any more capable than mine other than the fact he has a longer wheel base and a few more cubic inches in the motor..

Chris


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## outbackmac (Feb 1, 2005)

I just got in on the tail end of this topic but remember 1 thing towing is 1 but you have to stop this rig also. I think 10 grand for a 03 is high you can probly get a new 1 for a little more Check holman rv they will send you a email with there sale price on every unit. They are within a half hour from me so let me know what they say


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

I suspect the Chevy is wider, longer, heavier, and has more payload capacity. All of these will help with the towing experience. You do need to check weights though...


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