# New Here, With Questions - Looking At Used Units



## CrazyAboutOrchids (Aug 10, 2009)

Hi!

New here, been reading. We've owned a Coleman Niagara pop-up since 2003 and may be interested in upgrading. Looking at used due to budget. I drive a 2003 Yukon XL with 3.73 gears and a tow limit of 7400 lbs. I do, however, have 3 children so I want to stay as light as possible.

We looked at a unit in MA - 2004 26RS which appears to be in great shape, but it is a consignment unit, the owners want 15K for it and won't budge. This is one of the 2004 units without an oven, I figured 9.5K is a more reasonable price but the salesman told us the owners would not even consider anything but their asking price. I have found 2 similar units; a 2003 priced at 10.9K and a 2005 priced at 14.5K but both are a bit away from us.

My sister did some shopping for us in Indianapolis and loved a 28 foot unit she saw. I have found two of those units, older seems to be far less weight than the newer units, not sure what changed when to increase the weight so much. There is an 04 28RSS unit in PA but it has a 'wrinkle' in the rear panel. Trying to determine if something hit it or if it is water damage. There are a few 2006 28rsds units that I see available although none close to us in CT.

I am thinking that while the space of the 28 footer would be nicer, that it is too much for me to handle comfortably with my current tow vehicle, am I correct? We would not travel with water in the tanks, 2006 28 foot units weigh in at about 5300 lbs as optioned on the lots without our stuff added in, where the 26RS units weigh in at around 4600 lbs.

For our needs / wants, we desire quad bunks to split up our kids. In our pop-up, one is sleeping on one king bed, one on the dinette and one with us in the other king bed - I'm tired of the sleeping arrangement. I don't want big and elaborate as we pretty much only sleep in the unit, but for rainy days the room to move would be nice. I like the older outbacks with the slide out beds, space without the added length while towing is very desirable. A side slide out is not necessary although the added floorspace is nice; the slide out in our pop-up makes side to side leveling while packing a pain. We are looking to upgrade to make set up time easier. Currently, we just drive to campsites and stay there, we don't travel far and camp along the way as set up and drop down are too time consuming. The times when we have traveled a distance, we've overnighted in a hotel. We already have a weight distributing hitch on our pop-up, a bit of overkill it may seem, but the darn thing comes out of the factory overweighted on its single axel and even when properly loaded down in the tongue can be a sway nightmare; the WDH resolved all issues and makes for a much nicer drive.

I'm a bit surprised, every dealer we've talked to in the last 2 months claims units are selling like hot-cakes and don't seem willing to negotiate much. Am I nuts to think NADA pricing should be my price guide on purchases?

Oh, one quick question if anyone knows, has the interior wood tones of the outback remained the same throughout the 2003 - 2006 years? One unit I've seen only in pictures appears to be a lighter 'oaky' tone versus the darker cherry that I saw in person, not sure if it is just bad color on the pictures Ive seen or if the interior wood colors have altered.

And finally, does anyone really use the oven when they camp? To me it does not seem like a deal breaker but then I've never had the option to use an oven.

Thanks for any and all help!


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Great to have you with us and considering an Outback.

I started off with a 26RS back in 04. BUT, I only paid 16,900 for it brand new back then. Can't imagine paying 15K now for the same model.

BTW, I pulled it with my 1500 Suburban with the 5.3L engine. Didn't like it. That Burb struggled on the hills and the check engine light would come on all the time. I believe the 26RS weighs a lot more than the listed 4600 pounds.

Good luck. I am afraid you'll be pushing your limits with anything that size. Three kids, 2 adults, all the camping gear and so on......

Mark


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## CrazyAboutOrchids (Aug 10, 2009)

I got the weight from the trailer labels in the units which I thought was the weight, as optioned, from the factory. Am I wrong in that? Thanks for your purchase price on the 26RS - helps alot.


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

If I remember right, those numbers didn't include all the "extras" like awnings, propane tanks, etc. They were notoriously low. Maybe someone can post an update.

Mark


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

I won't disagree with you that the 28' models (They're really just over 30') are very nice. However they are also big. Our 28RSDS quickly forced us to upgrade from a F150 to a F350. Therefore I'd stick to a 26 or shorter for a 1/2 ton based vehicle. I'll let other's more familiar with GM powertrains to comment on the power of that setup.


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## Hanson (Jul 27, 2009)

Nathan said:


> I won't disagree with you that the 28' models (They're really just over 30') are very nice. However they are also big. Our 28RSDS quickly forced us to upgrade from a F150 to a F350. Therefore I'd stick to a 26 or shorter for a 1/2 ton based vehicle. I'll let other's more familiar with GM powertrains to comment on the power of that setup.


Im new here, and for kind words and advive I can give my first hand knowledge. I just bought a new 28KRS, 2009 and paid 18000. I pull with a 03 avalanche with the weight dist hitch and elec brakes. I do feel safe with this TV, and I can confortable pull down the highway, but I won't be winning any speed records either. I live in MN, so mountains are not an issue. Just my 2 cents.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

The listed "Dry" weights for these trailers do not include things like the awning, propane tanks (empty or filled), batteries, spare tire, etc. Add your camping gear (pots & pans, etc.), personal gear (clothing, etc.), and other creature comforts (television, toaster, etc.) and you will need to add about #1000 to that weight. 50 gallons of water in the fresh tank will add another 400+ pounds.

Then consider your tow vehicle's weight rating. Towing capacity and GVWR are two different things. The GVWR is the weight that both axles on your truck can safely carry. When you put four adults, their stuff, campfire wood, and the tongue weight of your trailer in/on your vehicle, you might be surprised that you are over that limit.

Here's a website that will help you sort out all the numbers: David's RV Tips Lots of good info there - I printed it out and keep it on a clip-board, along with other reference info for my trailer and towing needs.

I used to have a 2003 1500 Suburban with the 5.3L engine and the 3:73 rear end. It had the "towing package," but it struggled mightily with our 29BHS (about the same length and weight as the 28 you are looking at), even here in flatland Illinois. It was a classic case of the tail wagging the dog - a white-knuckled experience in a crosswind. I soon upgaded to a 3/4-ton pickup with 6.0L gas engine and 4:11 rear end. The diesel version would have been a better choice for power, but the gasser does the job - and the suspension is heavy enough (along with my Equal-i-zer hitch) to make towing a more pleasurable experience. (And remember - the longer the wheelbase of the TV, the easier it is to control a tag-along trailer.)

I would not advise anyone to tow a trailer over 25 feet long with anything less than a 3/4 ton TV.

Just my experienced opinion.

Mike


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

There is a 25RSS in Brentwood, NH for sale on RT. 125. Looks to be in good condition. Not sure of the year or interior condition. It is around the corner from my place. I could check it out, get some photos and get a price for you if you're interested.

Let me know.

By the way here is the name of the place. I did not find a website for them. It's a mom and pop operation.

Southern New Hampshire Rv & Marine
335 Route 125 
Brentwood, NH 03833

Eric


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## CrazyAboutOrchids (Aug 10, 2009)

Thank you for the suggestion. I looked at the floorplan of the 25 footer, but we have 3 kids and often have a buddy or two tag along which is why we are looking at quad bunk units.

I guess I was correct in thinking the 28 is just out of reach for us. Sad because I found a decent priced '04 unit.

Guess we'll just keep looking until the right one comes along for us and keep reading on on things until we do.

Thanks again!


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## The Stephensons (Jul 10, 2007)

The quad bunks are nice .... as is the extra galley/dining/sofa area when you have the side slide. We **LOVED** the 28rss floorplan but did not feel comfortable pulling something that big with our Expedition. We are well within our limit with the 25rss, but already see the need to upgrade our TV in the next couple of years once the trailer is paid off. Can't imagine pulling anything longer/heavier.

The 25rss COULD work with 3 kids - two in the bunk areas and one on the sofa (if they're small enough you won't even need to fold out the sofa - which, by the way, is VERY COMFORTABLE). Not much room for extra friends, though.

There was a 2004 26rs in the Portland area on sale for $12K a year ago or so that we seriously considered. So keep looking - the owners of the trailer you like will probably not sell their unit at the price they are asking and may come down in price when they realize it. Are they including any "extras" like a weight distribution system, brake controller, scissor jacks, or other upgrades?


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## The Stephensons (Jul 10, 2007)

Oh ... I forgot to mention ... I thought I was really gonna like having an oven - images of making hot fresh cookies or brownies or pizzas were floating in my head. We've been out 4 or 5 times since we picked up our unit 4th of July weekend and still haven't used it! We've only used the microwave and inside stovetop ONCE. We love using the OUTSIDE kitchen area instead.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Use sites like rvtrader or ebay to get prices. It seems to be somewhat cyclical, but at times you'll find dealers advertising new trailers (often the expiring model year) at rock bottom prices, and you can use that as leverage at your local/favorite dealer. When I say rock bottom, I mean there are several examples here over the last few years of people asking about a 2-3 year old trailer at such-and-such a price, and two or three people will come back saying they only paid a couple hundred more than that for a brand new one last year.

The oven is a personal thing. We use ours fairly regularly, but cooking buscuits is about the extent of it. I've not had great luck with it cooking evenly. We have friends that use theirs all the time and bake cookies almost every trip (even baked a birthday cake once). Some like to dry camp, some think of the power cord as a lifeline. Some like to use the bathroom like home, some have never showered in their unit after several years. So, nobody can really answer the question for you.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

One thing I thought I might add on the whole Setup/takedown timing. We came from a pop up (Cheyenne) and moving to the OB, I figured my setups would be a breeze... Well, the quick overnight stops are because we don't even unhook, and just climb into the trailer. However setting up at the destination stayed the same, or even got a touch longer. Sure, I didn't have to crank up the trailer anymore, but now I had more work leveling it and often had to hook up electric, water and sewer (we almost always dry camped with the pop up). Furthermore, we moved from a few campchairs and rarely using the awning to campchairs, awning, awning tie downs, awning lights, patio rug, etc... Even on the inside as we could carry more, we did. I'm not trying to discourage you, but just trying to set realistic expectations.









Other's experiences may vary!


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## Just Add Dirt (May 5, 2009)

I suggest you go to the "worlds largest" RV show in Hershey this September. From the people I've talked to, they've gotten their best deal on a TT there. Dealers are hungry to turn over old stock. I wouldn't try towing anything over 25' with anything less than a 3/4 ton. A used TT is a crap shoot, you're rolling the dice that you don't end up with somebody elses headache. And we always pack way too much crap for our trips, so leave a lot of wiggle room for crap you take but dont really need; like cookie dough and frozen pizzas







we've yet to use our oven, wife likes it though (even though shes never even turned it on).
.02 1/2 worth


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Nathan, I've actually been thinking about the same exact thing lately. We borrowed a popup a few times, and I said no way am I buying something that takes so long to set up. As you say, I'm not so sure it takes me any less time.

However, I would say that it's a different kind of setup. With the popup it's 30 minutes before you even have a trailer to walk into. As you noted, with the TT the setup includes putting out and staking down an awning, putting out the rug under it, getting the power on so the A/C can start cooling things off. We never move clothes/suitcases around now. Food is in the refrigerator, not managed in coolers.

One way to really see the difference is consider arriving in the rain. I can leave the TT hooked up and 6 of us can jump in the trailer and we're already in camping trim and fine to wait out the storm, with the possible exception of needing shore power to run the air or TV. With the popup you need to do all that setup in the rain to even have a place to go.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

BoaterDan said:


> Nathan, I've actually been thinking about the same exact thing lately. We borrowed a popup a few times, and I said no way am I buying something that takes so long to set up. As you say, I'm not so sure it takes me any less time.
> 
> However, I would say that it's a different kind of setup. With the popup it's 30 minutes before you even have a trailer to walk into. As you noted, with the TT the setup includes putting out and staking down an awning, putting out the rug under it, getting the power on so the A/C can start cooling things off. We never move clothes/suitcases around now. Food is in the refrigerator, not managed in coolers.
> 
> One way to really see the difference is consider arriving in the rain. I can leave the TT hooked up and 6 of us can jump in the trailer and we're already in camping trim and fine to wait out the storm, with the possible exception of needing shore power to run the air or TV. With the popup you need to do all that setup in the rain to even have a place to go.


Oh, I know, and am not sure I'd want to go back. It was a motivation for moving to the 5'er though. Of course we just got more stuff







, but the hitching/unhitching is quicker now.


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## deanintemp (Apr 3, 2007)

CrazyAboutOrchids said:


> Hi!
> 
> New here, been reading. We've owned a Coleman Niagara pop-up since 2003 and may be interested in upgrading. Looking at used due to budget. I drive a 2003 Yukon XL with 3.73 gears and a tow limit of 7400 lbs. I do, however, have 3 children so I want to stay as light as possible.
> 
> ...


Welcome to "the group" - I, too, am new to Outbacking and just recently purchased a 2005 26RS. I looked at several in the Michigan area (2004 and 2005 model years). Apparently, the 2004 models had difficulty getting ovens due to a shortage of a fitting. I would not consider the oven to be a deal breaker, you can always carry a nice toaster oven that can also be taken outdoors to keep the heat out of the kitchen. We recently purchase a 2005 unit for $11,500 - others we looked at were in the same range (11,000 - 12,000). The 2005 model year does include the oven and the interior is lighter in color (we like the lighter color). I traveled to mid-Wisconsin to pick up my unit. It was a difficult decision as I found two 2004 model years much closer to home which were also in very good shape. We absolutely love this trailer and highly recommend it. We have three boys and they each get their own bed. Let me know if you are willing to travel to Michigan and I will check to see if the others are still available - they were both in very good condition.


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## campingnut18 (Mar 11, 2004)

We pulled our 2006 27RSDS with a 2002 Tahoe 5.3 for awhile with no issues at all. Most of our trips are fairly short and there are little to no steep grades in the south. You do have to be consious of what you're packing into the car and camper for the trip but should be fine as long as you are cautious. Definitely agree with adding 500-1000lbs to the dry wt of the camper to get the rough idea.

The slide-outs make all the difference in the world. We started with a 23RS and even though we are only 4ft more of camper the dinette slide and the big walk-thru bathroom makes a huge difference. You really should get what you really want because if you don't, it will catch up with you later . . .









There seems to be quite a few deals on Craigslist these days - just as another option to try. And, in answer to the color schemes, I have seen that there are white cabinets and off-white (only slightly diff) and light med wood grain vs. the cherry look that you speak of. I wouldn't have chosen our color as our first option but it works for me - none of them are awful in my opinion (esp'ly some of the other brands).

Carmen


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## Steve W (Aug 4, 2007)

CrazyAboutOrchids said:


> I am thinking that while the space of the 28 footer would be nicer, that it is too much for me to handle comfortably with my current tow vehicle, am I correct? We would not travel with water in the tanks, 2006 28 foot units weigh in at about 5300 lbs as optioned on the lots without our stuff added in, where the 26RS units weigh in at around 4600 lbs.


We've pulled our 2007 26RS with both a 2003 1/2 ton Suburban and now our 2008 1/2 ton Suburban and I would say that that the 28 will be too much. Fully loaded for a week with 5 of us in the Suburban we weigh in at almost 13,000 lbs (truck and trailer) which is right at the max for our rig. We tow with a weight distributing hitch and the 2008 has the tow package and the autoride suspension and still it is just barely adequate. We too would love a bigger trailer but until (and if) we buy a bigger rig we won't buy a bigger trailer.

I've also pulled our trailer with a 3/4 ton Duramax pickup and the difference in stability was very noticable. Not to mention almost 50% better fuel economy.

Steve


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## CrazyAboutOrchids (Aug 10, 2009)

Thank you for all the replies. We are still looking... I've given up on the 28 footer, although there is a 28 foot K-Z not far from us that the dealer really wants to move on. It is so tempting, but logic (as well as all your posts here) tells me it's just too much. Bummer. I found a k-z unit with a similar floorplan to the 26rs that I can get at a great price and be able to trade in my pop up with, but it's 12 hours form here and hubby isn't into it to drive that far. Plus he worries we'd get all the way there and find something wrong with it. Found another unit about 3 1/2 hours from here but haven't heard back from the dealer.

I know this is an Outback forum so the replies will be slanted towards the obvious, but for those of you who've looked at both manufacturers, what swyaed you to Keystone? We love the Outback, but I also read more stories about bed issues and leaks and delam than I do with k-z. Again, logic tells me there are probably more Outbacks around, but just wondering why you chose your unit over a similar K-z if you looked at both.

Thanks and wish me luck!!!!


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

We went from a 2000 Coleman Niagara to the 2005 Outback 26RS and it has worked very well with out 3 kids. Since we dry camp most of the time the setup with the trailer is definitely easier and quicker. I had gotten pretty good at the popup setup and tear down but the Outback is usually easier unless I have to get it into an especially tight spot. The biggest time saver though was when I got the pickup instead of the SUV. It's much quicker and easier to just toss everything in the back of the truck. With the SUV stuff had to be packed in just right in the back and the rooftop cargo box.

As for prices I would say anything over $10 - $11K is probably too much for a 2005 or earlier model.

We also looked at the KZ brand trailers and thought they were well made. The only thing I didn't like about their design was the rear bed slideout mechanism. It's a very strong design but the bumper and everything slides out. We've been to several campsites where I had to back the trailer all the way in near a rock or other obstruction and then I slid the bed out over the obstruction. With the KZ that would not have been possible and I would have had to find a longer campsite.


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