# 4x4 Vs. Rwd



## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

Pretty simple question.

I am about to (hopefully if the wife don't find out) purchase a 2008 Silverado 6.6L Diesel 2500HD

I don't own a farm.
I don't go off roading.
I don't rescue small kittens from trees.

Is there reallya need for a 4 X 4 OR WILL A RWD SUFFICE???

My intention is to purchase a larger OUTBACK eventually so of course i need a bigger truck first... just don't know if i need the 4x4 or will the RWD suffice... I plan on keeping this truck for a long time if that helps the argument any...

Also keep in mind that winters here are n the low 60's... we never flood... and the only ice i see is in my soda...

4x4 adds about $2500 to the price of the truck...


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Sounds like a simple decision to me. Only factor would be resell, and from your post, it appears you're going to keep the rig for a long time.

Save the $2500 and enjoy the new TV!!!!

Just how big will the next Outback be? If you're thinking *REALLY* big...you might thing about a 1 ton...or a dually.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

You don t need it for snow.........some times if the grass is wet and not level at a campground, it might come in handy but that is a small reason to spend an extra 2500 dollars.

2WD is just fine


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## Yianni (Aug 30, 2006)

I would absolutely get the 4x4. I just bought the same truck 2 weeks ago and got the 4x4. I live in California but we dry camp allot and always find a lake or waterfalls that require 4 wheel to get to. i used my old 4x on my Expedtion for backing the Outback into gravel spots. Sometimes the wheels would just spin until I went into 4 wheel. If you get a heavier trailer, well you know the old saying, better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
Also one other important option. Be sure you get a truck equiped with the integrated brake controller. It's a $200.00 option but well worth it. It was nice to get rid of the Prodigy and have it all work together.
Good luck!


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

This is certainly a question I struggled with on both the Titan and the Ford. In both cases, it came down to resale-ability (that a word?). In this part of the country, if it does not have 4WD, nobody wants it, and you will have a really tough time finding a new one on a dealers lot. In other parts of the country, I think 2WD is a lot more common, and resale would not be an issue.

A couple of advantages to 2WD, besides lower initial cost, is better fuel mileage and - maybe more importantly - a bigger towing capacity (usually by 2-300 pounds at least).

As far as the need for 4WD, personally, I think it is way over rated. In four years of owning the Titan, which I also used for my vehicle to get up to skiing on Mt. Hood, I used the 4WD precisely one time! And I did not need it then. I was coming down the mountain and I just wanted to see what effect it had. Not enough to ever be tempted to use it again! Now in the past, it may have been a bigger deal, but these days with traction control, stability control and ABS, I really think its rarely of any advantage to most people. It's my opinion, that in most cases, 4WD is a lot better at getting people into trouble, than getting them out of it.

Bottom line, unless you think it's going to make a difference selling in the future, I'd go with the 2WD (even in a dually).

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

Go with the 4x4. You are going Diesel, that adds a lot of weight to the front end of the truck. If you go any where with soft ground at all, that diesel front end will sink like a rock. I have been there done that. Also resale is better.


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## zachsmom (Aug 17, 2008)

If the 4wd is the only wobble item, and everything else makes you happy and the price is reasonable, go for it!

A lot of people think resale should be considered, but there is no way to predict what the market will be doing if and when you get to that point. There is no reason to spend the extra $$ on 4wd unless you know you're going to need it.

And hey, if you get to the point of needing 4wd, you live smack in the middle of truck country - there's always gonna be an outbacker or a rancher or someone in the military who wants a big honkin' truck but doesn't need 4wd.

We just bought a used, one-owner 1-ton that does not have 4wd, and it works great for towing the OB and gets decent mileage doing it. We never would have found a 4wd for the price on this one. We don't plan to drycamp in hilly country, and don't need to go anywhere if it snows, so no need for 4wd.

Since you're in/near San Antonio, unless you're gonna go out drycamping on someone's ranchland, or plan to be off-road for any other reason, you'll be fine. You might wish for it if you get bogged down in caliche, but if you manage to get yourself stuck in the caliche, you'll probably need a tow truck anyway...

And if the weather is gross, everyone's gonna stay put anyway, you can just wait until it clears before moving again.









Good luck and post pics!

Lynne


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

sleecjr said:


> Go with the 4x4. You are going Diesel, that adds a lot of weight to the front end of the truck. If you go any where with soft ground at all, that diesel front end will sink like a rock. I have been there done that. Also resale is better.


4x4 is another one of these personal choices. Asking for opinions will help but it comes down to your personal preference. I will always have 4x4 on my trucks but im finding uses for it. the point Sleecjr make above hits close to home. we were on a great lakes beach last week and after loading up the truck i put it in drive and proceeded forward. or so i thought. the front end stayed put and the rear spun just a little. The Diesel is so heavy it sinks in the lose sand. a flip of the switch and it climbed right over the hill of sand made in front of the tires from plowing.

Now with that said, could i have gotten out without it ? Yes, but only because i have been in that situation before. had i kept spinning the rear i would have been sitting there waiting for help.

Soon there will be fewer options for used trucks as the production is being cut so low. Resale might really take a hit since most truck buyers will want 4x4. Having a 2wd might mean a harder sale.

I have learned from time on forums to be fair and not to just jump to an answer for someones question like this unless there is a really good reason to do so. Take your time researching the pros/cons (as you are doing) and do what makes you feel more comfortable. Fact is, you wont use the 4x4 much. With as much hunting, snowmobiling, camping, outdoor recreation that i do it gets used a dozen times a year and some of those are just because i have it.

Good luck.... and remember the cardinal rules !!








Buy FORD...








you can only tow with a 1-ton Diesel,








it must be 4x4,








If a gen is not a Yamaha or Honda its too loud,








Hensley hitches are the best unless you dont own one,








im sure there are more but i forgot them.....









_*just havin fun !*_


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## Yianni (Aug 30, 2006)

Sayonara is right. It is a personal choice. We actually used ours a lot over the years on our old Expedtion. It saved us on our (and the Expedtion's) last trip. We were 5 hours from home and just got to the campground in the high Sierra's. I started to back into our site and was blocking the road with 4 people waiting to get by. No pressure. Anyway, I shifted into reverse and nothing. I gave it more gas until floored and still nothing. The tranny was kind enough to wait until we got there to give out. So I put it into 4 wheel low and it backed right in. If I had not had the 4 wheel, it would really put a damper on the trip.
We stayed a week and then my DW's cousin came and towed the Outback home and we bought a 2500 HD Durmax with Allison the next day.
Just my experience but it sure saved us.
Also, if you can get the camper mirrors. You'll need them with that big new Outback.


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

I went through the same decision process with our new truck and just couldn't justify the extra cost of the 4wd. We had 4wd on our last 2 tow vehicles and never once needed it while towing or camping. Since I plan to keep the truck for at least 10 years resale wasn't an issue either. Just make sure you get the limited slip differential and you should be fine. If sometime you need more weight in the rear to move the trailer just disconnect the WD bars and put the whole tongue weight on the hitch.


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## Airboss (Jul 14, 2007)

I've only owned my truck for a year and I have twice been in situations where I needed 4X4. Once out of convenience - it was either 4X4 with M+S tires (which I have), or get out and chain up. The second was leaving Tahoe after a major snow storm. Getting over that mountain pass and then back down the other side could not have been accomplished without 4X4.

I understand that you never anticipate being in either of those situations, but $2500 is not a lot of money considering the overall price of the truck. I would imagine that it will help resale as well in the future.


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

In our area 4wd is part of life. We have had over 40" of snow fall in 8 hours, our average snowfall is just under 200" a year. We live at the end of the Lake Ontario and get the lake effect snow. We have had to drive 6 miles to get to a (snow route) plowed road to get to work. James


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## swanny (Oct 31, 2007)

sure is nice to have it and not need it, than not have it and need it.


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## fspieg (Jul 31, 2006)

sleecjr said:


> Go with the 4x4. You are going Diesel, that adds a lot of weight to the front end of the truck. If you go any where with soft ground at all, that diesel front end will sink like a rock. I have been there done that. Also resale is better.


X2 with Lee.


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## Fanatical1 (Jan 9, 2006)

This was a choice that I struggled with also. My friend has a 2 wheel drive pick up and get's stuck in soft ground occasionally, where
my front wheel drive car has no issues. Resale on a diesel 2 wheel drive is a factor and as others have said, when you need 4 X 4 you
have it. There is no doubt you will not use it often, but when you need it, it can save you a lot of headaches.

I could be wrong, but I think everyone who responded so far chose 4 wheel drive for their own truck?


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

We got the 4x4...You just never know


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## Steve McNeil (Aug 30, 2004)

Ghostly,

I have an '06' GMC Duramax without the 4 X 4 and I haven't needed as of yet. I have never had a 4 x 4, and I have been towing my tt without 4 x 4 for the past 4 years (2 differant trucks). Yes, I am sure it would nice to have for the "Just In Case" situation, but it wasn't worth the extra money to me.

Steve


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Its pretty much pointless to have a 4x4 when you live in San Antonio.. The added maintance, differential fluid changes, transfer case fluid changes, u joints, cupped front tires, less fuel mileage, sloppier steering, leaking front pinion and front output shaft, and especially wheel joints arent worth it if you DONT use it.

I dont believe in the resale worry, or having 4x4 just in case for a person who lives in Tahiti like you. 2 wheel drives have good resale in Texas.

2500 bucks will buy you several tows.

Over a 10 year span, you will save 2500 in fuel, so a couple of tows are free.

If you ever are going into snow country, just order a set of chains..

If you are going to use a 4x4 then it'd be worth it.

Carey


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## Paul (May 14, 2008)

I would never be without a 4X4 for a TV. I have only owned a TT for a short time but I have owned boats and snowmobiles intermittently over the past 25 years depending on where our great country stationed me. The 4X4 has come in handy numerous times, if it was at a slippery boat launch or towing the snow mobiles up an icy hill. I have always been glad I had a 4X4. I would rather have one than not have one and wish I did. You never know when you will need and it could bail you or a friend out of a jam. Not to mention that most people want a 4X4 when they shop for a used truck. That's my 2 Cents.


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

sleecjr said:


> Go with the 4x4. You are going Diesel, that adds a lot of weight to the front end of the truck. If you go any where with soft ground at all, that diesel front end will sink like a rock. I have been there done that. Also resale is better.


What he said. I started out looking for a 2wd; I found it nearly impossible to find a 2wd 3/4 or 1 ton, and it really does hurt resale not to have it, even if you can't think of a need for it, the next guy is likely to think he needs it. I have used it a LOT more than I thought I would, usually on loose rock/sand surfaces, or wet grass - the real forward progress killer.

"The added maintance, differential fluid changes, transfer case fluid changes, u joints, cupped front tires, less fuel mileage, sloppier steering, leaking front pinion and front output shaft, and especially wheel joints arent worth it if you DONT use it."

A lot of good points, Carey - but I've never cupped a front tire, my steering is fine (Chebbie, not Dodge), no leaks, no u-joint problems. Heck, a lot of guys I know in Wyoming and Montana put their truck in 4wd in October, and take it out in May with no problems.

But - you gotta be you...

Sluggo


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Has nothing to do with manufacturer.. All 4x's have cupped front tire problems.. If you rotate your tires alot you wont have much problem.. If you dont youll have trouble.. All 4x's need much more maintance and repairs than a 2 wheeler, but off course you know that.

If you are gonna keep a truck for a good while, you will replace seals, joints, and will have to do fluid changes to all the 4x parts... Yes even you Sluggo will do this.

If you dont use 4x, then whats the point of having to keep up with all that stuff.

Us guys who live in the north need 4x's and theres nothing wrong with that, we use em.

I have both.. My 1/2 is a 2wheeler, and my 1 ton is a 4 wheeler. I live in the bananna belt of colorado.. We get less than 1 foot of snow (total) per year. We get 10 inches of moisture (total)per year.. 4x isnt really needed here.. When I go off road to the mountains, I use my ole jeep.

Since I tow rv's with my 1 ton and run far west runs, I need a 4x4. I even just got me some super duty dual wheel chains because I will need more than a 4x4 here soon on mtn passes.

I bought a 2 wheel 1/2 ton so I could do a lowering kit and a hot rod engine. I am using it for an on road tow rig till its paid off, then Im doing a blower on the engine and lowering it for a street cruiser.. Ive always wanted a 2 wheel 500 hp slammed hot rod truck.. Now I will have one!

For a person who lives in the balmy south, and doesnt ever go off road, the honest truth is throughout the life of a vehicle the 4x function will RARELY be needed. But the maintance on the 4x function will be the same as us who use a 4x4 every winter, or off road. If the truck has it, it needs maintance wheather its used or not. If its not used, why waste the money?

You go lots of places Sluggo, so you may need a 4x.. If one stays in the south and never goes off pavement, then whats the point? He honestly doesnt really need 4x4, but thats up to Ghosty in the end.

All full size trucks resale is in the tank and is not coming back soon.. It doesnt matter if its 4x or not.. Still worthless in resale.

Where does the north send 2 wheel vehicles for resale? THE SOUTH! there worth more there. Where does many states send 4x4 trucks? Colorado and the west.. They are worth more here...

When I went looking for my dually last spring, there was a total of (5) 2x duallies in all of Colorado... Why? The dealers said as soon as they get a 2x pick up, it is loaded on a transporter and auctioned off in Texas where 2x trucks have good resale. They offer nothing in trade on a 2x and sell it at auction in Texas for more profit than can be made here in Colorado. Even with the transporter ride, they still make more money selling a 2x in Texas. 2x's will set for many months on lots here..

For Ghosty and where he lives, the resale on a 2x is just as solid as a 4x. When I am down that way, I see more 2x's than 4x's. When I'm up north, I see very few 2x's for good reason.

Hope that makes since for ya Sluggo.

I also will always pick a solid axle front end over an independant front end.. They are well proven tough. But they are also well proven crude comparred to an independant front end.. Does your chev drive better than my dodge? Yep, sure does.. Does your chev ride better than my dodge? yep sure does. Does your u joints/cv joints on the front drive shaft last longer on your chev? yep sure do, they dont move as your front differential is solid mounted. My solid axle moves up and down, wearing the front drive shaft joints quicker.

Do I prefer my rough riding lumber wagon dodge over a cushy chev? Yep sure do! Do I know I have to do more maintance on my old school solid front axle than your independant chev? Yep!

Sluggo, if you ever have to buy an axle shaft for your front end, you will spend exactly triple over what our cheap to repair dodge front axles cost. Yours uses CV joints, dodge uses old school u joints.. My ujoints are 30 bucks, ( I have two) your CV joints are several hundred ( each, and you have 4 of em). Your chevs last longer, but are weaker if used hard, and more expensive to repair. Your entire front end is more delicate than an old school solid axle front end.. Nothing wrong with it, just costs more to repair than the old style dodge front end. But your repairs come slower than a dodge, so in the end, its a toss up.

Some like the newer tech, cushy ride chevy, some like the old style solid axle, real truck ride, wallowing steering dodges.. Nothing wrong with either!

Carey


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## mmblantz (Jul 1, 2007)

I'm with the 4WD crowd.....I couldn't immagine having a truck without one.-----Mike


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

I cme very close to buting the 2wd identical truck to the 4x4 that I did buy. Man, I am so glad. I live and operate very much under the same circumstances as you do. However, where we stow our fiver, it is necessary to use the 44 almost every time we back it in or pull it out of its spot. Here is FL, there is a lot of hard pack sand. With that in mind, if you have any similar terrain, I'd go with the 4x4. You will loose about 1mpg, the truck is taller, and it cost more. I have no regrets having the 4x4. I figure with all the power of a diesel pick-up, how embarrassing to be stuck because of lack of traction. Good luck. pcm


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## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

I cme very close to buting the 2wd identical truck to the 4x4 that I did buy. Man, I am so glad. I live and operate very much under the same circumstances as you do. However, where we stow our fiver, it is necessary to use the 44 almost every time we back it in or pull it out of its spot. Here is FL, there is a lot of hard pack sand. With that in mind, if you have any similar terrain, I'd go with the 4x4. You will loose about 1mpg, the truck is taller, and it cost more. I have no regrets having the 4x4. I figure with all the power of a diesel pick-up, how embarrassing to be stuck because of lack of traction. Good luck. pcm


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Ive had 100k + miles on my last 3 Ford trucks - All were 4x4, F150, Expedition, F150. never needed any of the "_added maintance, differential fluid changes, transfer case fluid changes, u joints, cupped front tires, less fuel mileage, sloppier steering, leaking front pinion and front output shaft, and especially wheel joints _" except less mpg. just followed the manual - no problems. I rotated the wheels every other oil change (3k mile oil change intervals) and never had cupped tires. in fact they lasted to about 60k before they were replaced.

not trying to argue. just stating my real experience as an FYI.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

My $.02 is that if you don't get a 4wd, at least get a limited slip rear (and trac control if offered). Ignoring the off road debate and the fact you don't have snow to contend with, just a wet or dirty road can make you wish you had a little extra traction, expecially when that diesel hits peak torque just off idle







. I had a couple of those cases towing the ob where I slipped the tires in on road conditions. I've never used the 4x4 for that yet, but it's nice to know it is there. As for camping, I did use it this summer to get into and out of some campgrounds.

As a counterpoint however, I did find out this weekend, that with the new trailer, and a couple thousand pounds in the bed, I get a LOT better traction and didn't come close to slipping on the gravel roads at the campground.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Nathan said:


> As a counterpoint however, I did find out this weekend, that with the new trailer, and a couple thousand pounds in the bed, I get a LOT better traction and didn't come close to slipping on the gravel roads at the campground.


Thats a good point and as others mentioned. with a TT you could let off the WD if you needed more weight on the rear axle in a situation like that.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

[quote name='Nathan' date='Sep 22 2008, 04:22 AM' post='314189'

As a counterpoint however, I did find out this weekend, that with the new trailer, and a couple thousand pounds in the bed, I get a LOT better traction and didn't come close to slipping on the gravel roads at the campground.








[/quote]

Perhaps I can use this as another reason to buy a 5er...


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Oregon_Camper said:


> As a counterpoint however, I did find out this weekend, that with the new trailer, and a couple thousand pounds in the bed, I get a LOT better traction and didn't come close to slipping on the gravel roads at the campground.


Perhaps I can use this as another reason to buy a 5er...








[/quote]

Hey, whatever works for you. I can tell you that the truck has no problems towing the 5er. Heck, I caught myself doing 70 on the way out to the campground...


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Nathan said:


> As a counterpoint however, I did find out this weekend, that with the new trailer, and a couple thousand pounds in the bed, I get a LOT better traction and didn't come close to slipping on the gravel roads at the campground.


Perhaps I can use this as another reason to buy a 5er...








[/quote]

Hey, whatever works for you. I can tell you that the truck has no problems towing the 5er. Heck, I caught myself doing 70 on the way out to the campground...








[/quote]
How did pulling the 5er effect the mpgs?


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Sayonara said:


> As a counterpoint however, I did find out this weekend, that with the new trailer, and a couple thousand pounds in the bed, I get a LOT better traction and didn't come close to slipping on the gravel roads at the campground.


Perhaps I can use this as another reason to buy a 5er...








[/quote]

Hey, whatever works for you. I can tell you that the truck has no problems towing the 5er. Heck, I caught myself doing 70 on the way out to the campground...








[/quote]
How did pulling the 5er effect the mpgs?
[/quote]
The only 2 tows have each been < 1 hour. For that, the mpg's may be down by 1, but it is hard to tell. I got ~10mpg heading out on Friday and had one regen during the tow...


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