# 5Th Wheel Vs Travel Trailer



## WYOCAMPER

Hey everyone, 
I currently have a 23rs but have been seriously considering a shorty bunkhouse Fiver. I have been trying to do as much research as possible on the differences between a TT and a 5th wheel. One thing in particular has me curious. A lot of folks say that 5th wheels "pull easier" than TT's, but I'm not exactly sure what that means. Can anyone quantify that statement for me?

Are those folks refering to less sway with a 5th wheel than a TT? Would they mean that there is less wind resistance on say a mid profile fiver than a tt? Do they mean that a 5th wheel puts less stress on the TV? Is it a combo of these factors? What makes the 5th wheel easier to pull than a TT?

How do you think a 9K lb(loaded) mid profile 5th wheel would pull compared to a 7K lb (loaded) TT?


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## COCostas

We have pulled horses for years using a gooseneck horse trailer, so it's not "5er" experience, but I suspect it's the same. The trailer "tongue weight" is close to centered between the front and rear axles with a gooseneck/5er and makes things much more stable. Your trailer is pushing down on both axles of the TV, making it more like carrying a heavy load in your truck bed than actually TOWING something. What you don't get is bouncing, swaying, etc because you don't have a pivot point between the TV and trailer like you do with a bumper pull. Of course, turns are different since goosenecks/5ers don't follow the TV's tracks and will significantly cut corners - moreso the longer the trailer gets.

So - there is the completely unscientific, non-mechnical explanation. Now someone else can give you the technical, properly worded info.


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## Nathan

I've pulled a short TT, longer TT, midpro 5'er and full profile 5'er. The key is the pivot point. Most common advantage stated is the sway. This is true, and in a heavy crosswind, the trailer will acutally weathervane slightly and you won't even feel it with the truck. However, there are other advantages of the pivot point being just in front of the rear axle. In additon to straight line driving, when you turn with a bumper pull, the trailer wants to go straight and therefore is pushing your back around where the 5'er is again pushing above the tires allowing them to take the force directly and not trying to make the truck turn differently.

Also, when you brake, any trailer pivots forward, putting more weight on the tow vehicle. If it's a bumper pull, it pushes the back down and acutally raises the front. This is bad because ~70% of your braking comes from your front tires. With a 5'er, the weight moves onto the bed and you increase loading on all truck axles, therby improving braking performance. This is what I find most noticeable. When I would really lay on the brakes on the F350/5'er combo, I could feel the whole truck settle.

Of course 5'ers will tilt the entire rig in the wind, and are probably more likely to flip in bad gusts. They also cut in badly on curves which takes some getting used to. Personally, I'd do a 5'er for anything over 30'


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## Sandlapper

Well, we went from pulling a 28' TT to a 36' 5'er and i've been very very happy with the pulling experience. I won't say that it doesn't sway at all, but there is much less sway than with the TT. The only time, for me, it tends to get swirly is when i'm right behind a tractor trailer. There's a lot of turbulance coming off those big rigs so anything that you're pulling would tend to get a little sway. Our 5'er is a mid profile and I can definitely tell that there is less wind resistance than with our TT. The shape of it helps tremendously. Instead of pulling something that is straight up, you're towing something that is curved (atleast ours is), even though it is higher. Having the weight in the bed of your pickup rather than on your bumber makes for a more stable feeling as well. All in all, its a pleasurable towing experience. Its nice to be able to sit back, lightly grip the wheel and enjoy the drive down the road. 
Once you're used to hooking and unhooking, (and comfortable doing it) that too is an advantage to a 5'er (i think). It took me a little while to convince myself that everything was actually locked in and ready, but once I got the hang of it and figured out what to look for and check on, hooking and unhooking became much easier for me. 
We've been very happy with our setup and i'm sure whatever you choose you will be to.


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## WYOCAMPER

Thanks for all the quick responses everyone. So in terms of aerodynamics, it sounds like a mid-profile 5er would have less wind resistance than a TT?

Assuming you had two trailers of equal weight, would you expect to get better fuel economy towing a 5th wheel than a TT?


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## Nathan

WYOCAMPER said:


> Thanks for all the quick responses everyone. So in terms of aerodynamics, it sounds like a mid-profile 5er would have less wind resistance than a TT?
> 
> Assuming you had two trailers of equal weight, would you expect to get better fuel economy towing a 5th wheel than a TT?


I wouldn't assume that. I'd just look at frontal area and go from there (I.e. width x height). Smaller is better...


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## Traveling Tek

5er would deff have more wind resistance, but I have talked to a lot of different campers and gotten all about the same answers. They all use diesels to tow with and they all get about 10 mpg. Usually the folks towing bumper pulls with their similar diesels will say 10-11mpg. No bumper pull with a gasser I get 6mpg and that's about what my friends rig got. So the upgrade to bigger everything seems worth it for gas mileage and extra space.


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## Tangooutback

I haven't towed a 5'er to know first hand on mpg figure. With my 25RSS TT and Ford F250/ 7.3 diesel I get 12 mpg as long as I keep the engine rpm no faster than 2,000. That comes out to 60 to 65 mph.

I towed same camper with the Dodge 1500 gasser, made top speed at 60 mph on flat terrain, gas mileage was 6-7 mpg. Its transmission blew after towing that camper for 800 miles. Engine had 39,000 miles on odometer at that point.


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## Sandlapper

I personally feel like the mpg issue should not be a factor. When you are towing, the mpg is not going to be good no matter what you're pulling(excluding something very very small and lite weight). I don't know if there would be any difference in fuel mileage between your TT or a 5'er, but I do know it would be a more comfortable and safer pull. I know that with fuel prices going higher and higher that mpg is always a hot debate, but if you're looking to camp, and camp in the camper that you want, then mpg shouldn't be the deciding factor. Anybody that is overly concerned with fuel mileage probably should not get into camping.


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## WYOCAMPER

Sandlapper said:


> I personally feel like the mpg issue should not be a factor. When you are towing, the mpg is not going to be good no matter what you're pulling(excluding something very very small and lite weight). I don't know if there would be any difference in fuel mileage between your TT or a 5'er, but I do know it would be a more comfortable and safer pull. I know that with fuel prices going higher and higher that mpg is always a hot debate, but if you're looking to camp, and camp in the camper that you want, then mpg shouldn't be the deciding factor. Anybody that is overly concerned with fuel mileage probably should not get into camping.


I've been driving my V10 and towing with it for over 5 years - I'm not looking for good gas mileage with my set up - physics won't let me - ha ha! I'm just trying to figure out why a fiver is considered by many to pull easier/tow better than a TT. I thought maybe some folks were saying that it was more aerodynamic and therefore got better gas mileage going down the road? I guess that is not the case.

I pull a 23RS with my F350 and use an Equal-i-zer brand hitch for weight distribution and sway control. I have never felt uncomfortable towing or unsafe with this set up. And I guess that is what has me confused. Even in your comment Sandlapper, "...but I do know it would be a more comfortable and safer pull." What would make it more comfortable and safer for me? Not trying to stir the pot here, just trying to learn...


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## rsm7

WYOCAMPER you are pulling a 23RS with an F350 so your setup is very stable. You have alot of truck for that trailer. When you start pulling a 30 foot bumper pull it will move your truck around alot. The tongue weight on the bumper will bounce your truck around, lift your front end, and push the back side to side. That's where the 5ver difference will show up. I have a 33' Springdale TT loaded at 8000 lbs and a 27' Jayco TT which is maybe 6000 and there is a big difference between the two. The Jayco hardly moves around at all but I can feel the Springdale and it requires alot more concentration. Your 23RS probably pulls even better than my Jayco being a little shorter. I would like a 5ver for how they tow but I dont want to give up my truck bed and fiberglass cap. Plus we are mostly weekend campers and them 5vers are so big and luxurious it almost doesnt feel like camping. If we had more free time and we were "travelers" seeing the country then I would have definately have one or a Class A.


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## Tangooutback

While one cannot argue with the law of physics where towing is going to produce terrible fuel mileage, it does make difference if one trailer configuration produces significant fuel mileage difference over another configuration. You would not know unless you ask question. Like you, I am towing a TT and have thought about going to a 5'er. Thanks for asking the question I myself was about to ask....


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## WYOCAMPER

This is what I love about Outbackers. You can ask a question, get an honest answer and not worry about sounding.... uneducated. Thanks for all the great responses everyone.

I guess I should clarify that the 5th wheels I've been looking at are (relatively) short bunkhouse models in the 26-28 foot range. This gives me about the same overall length (truck + trailer) as my current set up with the 23rs travel trailer. I don't want to go longer as we like to camp in some remote locations that are not easy to get in and out of with longer rigs. So in my case, the main advantage of going with a short fiver would be the extra room and storage inside the camper (looking at side slide models). It doesn't sound like there will be a tremendous gain in stability over my current set up. I would be losing part of the truck bed to the fiver hitch. Any other major factors/differences to consider?


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## Lmbevard

I went from pulling my 30' 5er with a Dodge 3500 Diesel regular cab to pulling with a Ford F250 Crew cab with a small gas engine. The only pull so far with the Ford was in a cross wind. Wind never bothered the Dodge setup and was only slightly noticeable with the Ford. Not sure if your F350 has duel wheels, but that helps with a larger camper to keep the tailend of the truck where it's suppose to be. With your truck, I don't think you'll even notice that a 5th wheel is back there besides feeling that you have a load in your truck. I have never pulled a large TT very far but do know that my 5th wheel pulls very easily. Do agree that you have to watch the tracking more. First time I pulled it, I clipped a parked truck. But, one thing to remember is that for the same length camper, a 30' 5er will ride 7' shorter than a 30' TT. 3' for the hitch + 4' for the position of the hitch point.

Good luck and enjoy.


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## Duanesz

WYOCAMPER said:


> This is what I love about Outbackers. You can ask a question, get an honest answer and not worry about sounding.... uneducated. Thanks for all the great responses everyone.
> 
> I guess I should clarify that the 5th wheels I've been looking at are (relatively) short bunkhouse models in the 26-28 foot range. This gives me about the same overall length (truck + trailer) as my current set up with the 23rs travel trailer. I don't want to go longer as we like to camp in some remote locations that are not easy to get in and out of with longer rigs. So in my case, the main advantage of going with a short fiver would be the extra room and storage inside the camper (looking at side slide models). It doesn't sound like there will be a tremendous gain in stability over my current set up. I would be losing part of the truck bed to the fiver hitch. Any other major factors/differences to consider?


Another advantage to pulling a 5er is you can pull a trailer behind it. Check your local laws though. My dad does this when they go to Florida for the winter.


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## Carey

A semi truck uses a 5th wheel type hitch. The weight balance is 60% trailer, 40% truck. Since its close to 50/50 split its a near perfect stability match.

A 5th wheel camper uses 75 to 80% trailer weight and 20 to 25% truck weight ratio. Its also a decent stability match.

A bumper pull uses a 85 to 90% trailer weight and a 10 to 15% truck weight ratio. Its a poor match because the weight of the hitch is behind the tow vehicle.

The perfect hitch would put the pull/hinge point at dead center of the tow vehicle. A typical rv 5th wheel hitch puts 20 to 30% of the hitch weight to the front wheels. A bumper pull type hitch only allows 10 to 20% of hitch weight to go to the front wheels IF a top quality weight dist. hitch is used. Most are in the 15% or so range when using a top quality hitch. If no w/d hitch is used you will be in the negative, so weight will be removed not added from the front axle. This heightens the ability for the weight to act as a steering device to the rear axle.

A 5th wheel hitch allows the the tow vehicle to counter sway because the placement of the hitch does not allow the vehicle to be steered by the trailer as easy as what a bumper can do.

The reason you get an uneasy feeling while towing a bumper pull is because the rear axle of the tow vehicle is actually being steered by the weight of the rv behind the tow vehicle. Its a leverage thing. You must use a sway control to stiffen the joint of the hitch point to reduce the tendancy of the trailer to steer the rear axle.

The placement of the 5th wheel hitch counters this uneasy feeling because there is less leverage behind the vehicle that can move the rear of the vehicle. Since there is no weight placed directly behind the tow vehicle it feels more secure. A 5th wheel hitch places the weight ON the tow vehicle.

Why people like 5th wheel campers is because there tow vehicle always feels more secure or in control of the trailer behind them.

As far as fuel mpg. Its all about air gap. The modern mid profile, tightly tucked 5ers will get you the same to 1mpg better than a same size bumper pull because the air gap at the hitch point is greatly reduced.

Carey


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## vdub

All the physics that the others have talked about is on the spot. I have had both a trailer and 5 and I can assure you that the 5 is the absolute best towing vehichle you will get. We pulled our 5 thru the Guadalupe Pass with 60 mph gusting x-winds -- no problem, wasn't even white-knuckle. With a trailer, I would have stopped.

However, because of the same physics, a 5 is harder to back up than a trailer. You get used to it, but it is considerably different.


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## tyandow

We just switched from a tt to a fiver. Driving is much better for all the reasons listed above. However backing up is another story. I don't think backing up is harder with a fifth wheel but I think it gets more difficult when you gain more length. It totally changes the process for you.


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## vdub

tyandow said:


> We just switched from a tt to a fiver. Driving is much better for all the reasons listed above. However backing up is another story. I don't think backing up is harder with a fifth wheel but I think it gets more difficult when you gain more length. It totally changes the process for you.


It's different because of the position of the connection point with respect to the axle. With a trailer, the connection and swivel point is 3 or 4 feet behind the axle, so very little change in the axle position makes a large change to the backup angle. But with a 5, the connection point is on the axle, so in order to move the hitch one way or the other, the entire axle has to move. Movements are slow and then speed up in a hurry. It's a lot harder to correct a situation where you over-steer.

Also, with a trailer, you can hook up or unhook in any position you want. With a 5 you need to be straight on within maybe 15 degrees of either side.


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## Nathan

A slider hitch will help with backing since it moves the pivot point rearward some. Regarding unhitching, I did it with my 5er at more than 45 deg a couple times. That's why I didn't get an autosliding hitch, I knew I wanted that freedom.


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## vdub

That's an excellent point about a manual slider. I never thought about it. The auto slider like my superglide probably makes it doubly difficult....


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## SouthRider

We just switched from a 230 RS which is 28' & 5400 lb. to a Jayco 5ver that is 35' and 9500 lb.

They seem to "pull" about the same with our Chevy 2500 Diesel.

I was shocked at how easy it is to pull the 5ver considering the extra length & weight, though the 230 was a dream to pull with a good hitch.

If you are using a large truck & swap a small TT for a small 5ver there would be little difference in "pulling".

As others have mentioned the 5ver does cut corners more (I ran over a curb at CVS on my way home the 1st day), and it also cuts slower while backing (an asset for me as I tend to cut too hard from inexperience).

All in all I'm glad I went with the 5ver instead of an equally long TT that we were considering when we upgraded (298 RE).

Our fuel economy actually went UP a little from 12 to 13, which is amazing considering the weight & bulk difference. I guess that the aerodynamic nose of the 5ver tucked in behind the rear truck window makes a significant difference.

Again, if you are switching from a TT to an equally sized 5ver make your decision based on the needs that you have inside the camper as compared to giving up the truck bed storage. We knowingly gave up the bed to get more room in the camper so we could take longer trips without getting the whole package too long.

Towing just won't be a major deciding factor.


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## wolfwood

Well, this weekend was our maiden voyage with the new fiver. We've had two TTs - a 25RSS and 28 KRS. Pulled them both with a 2007 tundra crew cab and a Hensley Arrow. No sway, no nothing. We weren't really sure what to expect from the fiver. Well, we went to western Mass through the Berkshires and actually got better mileage. We didn't expect to since we are now towing 2000 lbs more camper.

For us the difference in the decision to go with the fiver was the length to usable space. With a fiver you get the whole camper, with a TT, you lose 3 ft to the tongue and four feet is over the truck bed. Even though we still have a 30' camper, we're towing about 5-6 feet less.

Hope all this info helps you in your decision! Best of luck.


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