# Generator Question



## MT MIke (Aug 13, 2011)

Hey gang!

I have a 2011 Outback 298re with the 15k btu air conditioner.
It is time to get a new, quiet generator. I'm leaning towards the Yamaha 2400 inverter, as it only weighs 70lbs, so I could tote it myself, without needing the DW or DS to help. I know the 3000 would power the camper, but it weighs 150, a bit much to get in and out of the back of the TV by myself.

Anyone have a similar configuration? Will the 2400 start the compressor on the A/C? What if I add a hard start cap?

Don't want to spend the money, and then not get the results!

Mike


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## H2oSprayer (Aug 5, 2006)

I'm not sure which brand of AC unit you have, but if you look at this Dometic Info Sheet, it shows that a 3.5kw generator is recommended for their 15,000btu unit. Additionally, if you look at Yamahas website, it indicates that the 2400 is powerful enough to run most 13,500 units. Have you given any thought to using two 2000 units and a parallel cable?


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## outback loft (Sep 22, 2008)

I highly doubt that the 2400 Yamaha will power up the 15k a/c unit. I have the 15k btu unit in mine and I have the Kipor 3000 and have had that go into overload before. I already have the hard start capacitor installed and it still gone into overload.

More than likely you are going to be looking at a 3000, or 2 2000's in parallel. The thing with the 2000's in parallel is that they dont give you 4000 watts, they only give you 3000 (and that is surge) The Honda 2000 is actually only rated for a 2000 watt surge.


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## CJ999 (Aug 11, 2005)

Seems like your only hope of getting the AC started would require EVERY other electrical devise to be off and/or out of the equation... you might need to install a cutoff on your batteries so the charger can't see them and switch them off while you run the AC... and that still might not get it done, especially if you are at altitude...


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## raynardo (Jun 8, 2007)

Minimum standards aren't optimum.

One shouldn't buy a generator that isn't adequate for the task anymore than anyone should buy a trailer bigger than than truck can tow or a truck that is too lame to pull one's trailer.

The reality is that you should always use the right tool for the right job, and I'd add that one should buy the best quality tool for the job as well, since the bad taste poor quality of a tool will long outlast the feeling of a "bargain" price.

Sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone, but in my mind these are cold hard facts that have been learned through the school of hard knocks.

BTW, I use a 4300 watt generator to power my trailer....


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## luverofpeanuts (Mar 9, 2010)

outback loft said:


> I highly doubt that the 2400 Yamaha will power up the 15k a/c unit. I have the 15k btu unit in mine and I have the Kipor 3000 and have had that go into overload before. I already have the hard start capacitor installed and it still gone into overload.
> 
> More than likely you are going to be looking at a 3000, or 2 2000's in parallel. The thing with the 2000's in parallel is that they dont give you 4000 watts, they only give you 3000 (and that is surge) The Honda 2000 is actually only rated for a 2000 watt surge.


I have a Honda 3000 and if I'm not careful what I have running on AC, when the A/C kicks in, it will go into overload too. I would not buy the 2400 for even 13.5K A/C unit. It's just too much, too often, IMHO. I think you'll have to go to one of the Yamaha BOOST genny's.. or go wtih a parallel setup.

http://www.hayesequipment.com/yamaha_generators/ef3000ise.htm

Sounds like the 2400 has a parallel setup available, that would probably give you enough. And COOL, there is a tri-fuel kit to enable LP/Natural gas usage easily! I'd put the hard start kit on your A/C regardless.

http://www.generatorsales.com/order/07679.asp?page=Y07679


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## MT MIke (Aug 13, 2011)

Thanks for all the input!
As rarely as we camp where we need A/C, guess it will come down to value versus comfort. We do a great deal of our camping at altitude, so is a 3000 Yamaha or Honda going to power the A/C?

Mike


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## TwoElkhounds (Mar 11, 2007)

MT MIke said:


> Thanks for all the input!
> As rarely as we camp where we need A/C, guess it will come down to value versus comfort. We do a great deal of our camping at altitude, so is a 3000 Yamaha or Honda going to power the A/C?
> 
> Mike


If you rarely camp where you need AC, then I would recommend the dual Honda EU2000 setup. We are in a similar situation and have the two EU2000's. We normally only bring one of the generators with us, but if it is hot and we think we might want some AC, we bring the second unit. The two units in parallel power our 15K AC just fine. Much easier to handle than the larger generator. You can get them online for around $900 each.

DAN


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## luverofpeanuts (Mar 9, 2010)

MT MIke said:


> Thanks for all the input!
> As rarely as we camp where we need A/C, guess it will come down to value versus comfort. We do a great deal of our camping at altitude, so is a 3000 Yamaha or Honda going to power the A/C?
> 
> Mike


I have no experience directly with a 15K A/C. I do, however, tend to believe that if you keep the fridge and hot water heater on gas, and be conscious of when using the microwave, hair dryer, and other AC sucking items, you'd probably be safe with a 3000.. though I'd tend to go for the Yamaha Boost model to provide just a little extra capacity when starting these items. Hayes Equipment even says the boost model runs a 15K A/C.. the non-boost model runs a 13.5K A/C.

If you want to have plenty ;-) Yamaha 4500 at 194 pounds dry.. it's a beast. The 3000 boost model is only 147 pounds dry. I think the twin tech kit with the 2400 might work too... if you really wanted to have flexibility to only bring one when you don't need A/C.


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## luverofpeanuts (Mar 9, 2010)

TwoElkhounds said:


> You can get them online for around $900 each.


Isn't there are cost to get the parallel cable attachment? I always thought that was $100-$200 above the cost of the unit?


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## Tangooutback (Apr 16, 2010)

MT MIke said:


> Hey gang!
> 
> I have a 2011 Outback 298re with the 15k btu air conditioner.
> It is time to get a new, quiet generator. I'm leaning towards the Yamaha 2400 inverter, as it only weighs 70lbs, so I could tote it myself, without needing the DW or DS to help. I know the 3000 would power the camper, but it weighs 150, a bit much to get in and out of the back of the TV by myself.
> ...


I have the Yammie 2400 and a 13,500 BTU a/c unit on my 25RSS. With the five years old a/c unit I could not start it with the Yammie most of the times. The old unit broke and I put in a brand new unit, which I added a hard start kit. It made a world of difference with that kit. It now kicks on without problem as long as the microwave is not in use.

If I am to start over again, I'd go with two Honda EU2000 units and have them connected with the parallel kit for the ease of lifting individual unit by myself.


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## TwoElkhounds (Mar 11, 2007)

luverofpeanuts said:


> You can get them online for around $900 each.


Isn't there are cost to get the parallel cable attachment? I always thought that was $100-$200 above the cost of the unit?
[/quote]

Yes, the companion will run a hundred or so more. I was just talking round numbers. I know these generators are expensive and we thought long and hard before we bought, but have never regretted the decision. We bought the first one year and then the second the following year. Something the OP might consider.

DAN


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## luverofpeanuts (Mar 9, 2010)

TwoElkhounds said:


> Yes, the companion will run a hundred or so more. I was just talking round numbers. I know these generators are expensive and we thought long and hard before we bought, but have never regretted the decision. We bought the first one year and then the second the following year. Something the OP might consider.
> 
> DAN


Oh yeah... that's right. Now Honda came out with the EU companion box that has the 30A RV recepticle built in...so that the parallel kit isn't as 'cumbersome' looking as it used to be.

Having a EU3000i, I really like the fact that the EU3000 is SLIGHTLY quieter and has just a little different noise than the EU2000. I like the electric start. Other than that, I think if I had to do it all over again, I'd really think I'd lean toward having a EU2000i and a EU2000i companion. There have been several times where I would have really liked to have a small quiet electric genset for use at family gatherings, bonfires, tailgating, or just working outside remotely. The EU3000 is a bit tougher to just throw in the back and take with. So, an EU2000 has 2000 max, 1600 run capacity. So I assume that means 4000 max, 3200 run capacity. Whereas an EU3000i has 3000 max, 2800 run capacity.

I can handle the EU3000 on my own, but I have to be very careful. If you're not up to wrestling 130 pounds (dry.. more if it has gas in it).... by yourself... and you won't have help.... then I think you really should go for the two generator setup. Heck... even a wheel kit for the 3000 is $100 or more. You really *need* that, IMHO.


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## RDS (Jul 20, 2011)

A less expensive option would be two 2000 watt Kipor's with parallel kit. I just got one on Amazon.com for $493.00 before the Hurricane and it ran my sump pump and fridge all night and half the next day. It never missed a beat, I am so impressed by it's performance I would like to get a 2nd unit and parallel kit for TT.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

boliy has some nice units........ especially for those who don't use one often.......


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## MT MIke (Aug 13, 2011)

Again, thanks for all the input! I decided to purchase the Yamaha 3000 with boost. In my driveway, it kicks over the A/C with no problem. It is a might heavy to handle by myself, although I can get it out of the TV. I'm going to build ramps to use to put it into the TV, especially when I am by myself.

Maybe could have gotten by with two of the 2000's, either Honda or Yamaha, but this way, I'm set.

The new one is *much* quieter than my old Coleman. Now to take it out this next week dry camping, see what kind of gas usage I get with it.

Mike


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## luverofpeanuts (Mar 9, 2010)

MT MIke said:


> The new one is *much* quieter than my old Coleman. Now to take it out this next week dry camping, see what kind of gas usage I get with it.
> 
> Mike


Nice, congrats. I look forward to a review ;-) after you kick the tires a bit ;-)


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Something that I havent seen mentioned is altitude. At 6000 feet a 3000 watt generator is closer to 2000. At 10000 feet, give it up, your not going to have a big enough genny.

If your camping at altitude your going to need something in the 4-5000 watt range.

Northern tool and harbor freight has 5000 watt china made quiet models for under 500 bucks.

Carey


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Something that I havent seen mentioned is altitude. At 6000 feet a 3000 watt generator is closer to 2000. At 10000 feet, give it up, your not going to have a big enough genny.
> 
> If your camping at altitude your going to need something in the 4-5000 watt range.
> 
> ...


Perfromance loss is typically 3 to 4% per thousand feet. You can get re-jet kits to improve performace, leaning out the mixture and reducing the loss somewhat. Heck by the time you get to 10,000 you will need to run the furnace not the AC anyway so still not a big deal!


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

There are many days in the Colorado mountains that ac is needed at 10000 feet. The sun is much more intense and its not unusual to see temps into the high 80's and low 90's. It can be very hot inside an rv at 10000 feet.

Your 3000 will struggle to start your ac at 6000 feet. It will act much like a 2000 then a 3000 at 6000 feet.

3 to 4% per 1000 feet is optimistic for a generator because its only a 1 cylinder engine. Altitude is much harder on small engines versus larger engines.

Carey


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> There are many days in the Colorado mountains that ac is needed at 10000 feet. The sun is much more intense and its not unusual to see temps into the high 80's and low 90's. It can be very hot inside an rv at 10000 feet.
> 
> Your 3000 will struggle to start your ac at 6000 feet. It will act much like a 2000 then a 3000 at 6000 feet.
> 
> ...


Well it may be warm in the sun but even at 4500 in the mountains of Idaho it really is not that bad. More factors then just heat as we all know humidity plays into the comfort level. If the sun is shining get out and play, once the sun sets it will be 40 degrees outside, as 40 to 50 degree swings from day and night are typical so I will still go with needing a furnace more then a AC unit in the mountains.

For performance it does not matter on the number of cylinders. It is all about initial air density I could have a 1000 liter single cylinder engine and that would be a big engine and it has the same performance impact as a 1000 cylinder engine of the same displacement. You should know I work on engines without cylinders and they are very large and they have the same performance impact at altitude. Now the question is will a generator that starts an AC at sea level be able to do it at 5,000 or even 10,000 feet. Maybe not but it also may do just fine as there could have been plenty of margin in load vs performance. Testing and your specific set of conditions would need to be evaluated.


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## MT MIke (Aug 13, 2011)

Well, just to add a couple of more facts:
The Yamaha 3000 with boost turns over my A/C in m my driveway. I live at around 3500 feet. Most of my camping is around 6000 feet, unless we go to Yellowstone, which is at around 7000. Of course, in Yellowstone, I go to Fishing Bridge, and get full hook ups, so A/C is available, even though I've never used it. As was mentioned, we get out and play during the day, and the night will drop into the 30's. Yellowstone is *cold* in a tent!

As CA mentioned, in the mountains here in MT (and Idaho, apparently,) even when it does get into the 80's during the day, it will drop into the 40's at night. I lived at 5600 ft for 10 years. Only saw daytime highs break 90 a few times, and night lows always dropped into the 40's, or 30's.

Mike


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## MT MIke (Aug 13, 2011)

Got to take the Outback out for 3 days of dry camping, starting on Labor Day. It was nice, as we had nearly the whole campground to ourselves, everyone else was heading home as we headed in!

The new generator was a champ! I love the electric start, I can even send DS out to start it! We seemed to get pretty good gas usage. Around 18 hours on one tank (3.4 gal.) I had the refrigerator set to "auto" and rarely used the electric water heater, left it on gas-only. We didn't need A/C, as daytime highs were in the 70's. Night time lows were in the 50's, so not too bad. In fact, the first night, the heater didn't kick on until the morning temp increase kicked in. (Did I mention I did the electronic thermostat mod? Put in a programmable Hunter.)

The freezer on the fridge is still running warm, only getting to around 10 degrees F. We have figured out the work-around on the oven, so had no problems there, although I am sure it will be fixed next week when I take it to the dealers.

When we dumped our tanks, I had purchased a 10" clear tube to put on the sewer hose, so was able to see how the water looked in them as they dumped. I gotta say, I am impressed with the black tank flush system! By the time my grey tanks had dumped, the black was running clear with the flush running. Nice!

All in all, the whole family really likes the new Outback (a 298re) and we loved the quiet generator. It made my coffee hotter than my old one, always good.

Mike


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## raynardo (Jun 8, 2007)

MT MIke said:


> I gotta say, I am impressed with the black tank flush system! By the time my grey tanks had dumped, the black was running clear with the flush running. Nice!


What black tank flush system is this?


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

MT MIke said:


> The freezer on the fridge is still running warm, only getting to around 10 degrees F.
> 
> Mike


Don't forget the freezer operation is a side effect of the fridge operation. Set the fridge to run cooler and the freezer will be cooler.


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## MT MIke (Aug 13, 2011)

raynardo said:


> I gotta say, I am impressed with the black tank flush system! By the time my grey tanks had dumped, the black was running clear with the flush running. Nice!


What black tank flush system is this?
[/quote]

It was already on my trailer when I bought it. There is a water fitting right above the black tank gate. It has a tube that runs around the perimeter of the tank and pinhoes in the tube that jet against the sides and bottom of the tank.

Mike


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## MT MIke (Aug 13, 2011)

CamperAndy said:


> The freezer on the fridge is still running warm, only getting to around 10 degrees F.
> 
> Mike


Don't forget the freezer operation is a side effect of the fridge operation. Set the fridge to run cooler and the freezer will be cooler.
[/quote]

Thanks for the heads up. The fidge is running right at 34 F, so I don't think that is the problem, or a potential solution, as much colder will freeze produce.

Mike


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## raynardo (Jun 8, 2007)

I extended the rear bumper on my 2006 RKS by three feet, put on a platform, and now have an _Cummins Onan P4300ie_ generator along with a storage trunk that holds 10 gallons of gasoline. Here's that link: *CLICK HERE*.


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## KTMRacer (Jun 28, 2010)

we bit the bullet and have two honda 2000's. one regular one companion. Comparison to the honda 3000i

1) 3000i is HEAVY something like 130lbs that was the big deal killer, course someone probably won't try to walk off with it!!
2) rated power is 2800 VA vs 3200VA for dual honda 2000's. 
3) cost difference is a push
4) Most of the time I only need to power up one honda, only need two when we are using the AC or microwave and other stuff
5) with the 2000's I can run A/C and microwave and keep them on eco mode
6) honda 3000 does offer electric start, for us not a big deal.
7) Honda 3000i is slightly quiter NOTE: the Honda 3000 "Handy" is significantly noiser, and only rated at 2600VA max, but it is lighter.
8) 3000 will run longer on a tank, but it isn't to hard to build an extended run tank that will give you 8 gallons for the 2000's. 
9) Honda 2000 is very managable to carry around. about 50lbs with a full tank of gas.

If we were to do it again, I'd look seriously at a pair of yamaha 2000's as well. I bought the first honda about 6 years ago, before yamaha had a good offering. The yamaha's have some nice features and often have some very good pricing.


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