# I Have A Question For You Guys



## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I'm really excited to get this status.. Never thought I'd get it! But, I really need your thoughts here guys.. I didnt want to talk about this here knowmore, but I have a big decision to make and if it doesnt work, I'm bankrupt..

I have spent the last few weeks working with the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration. NHTSA

I have been working with them to find a clasification to what this hitch is. They wont do the reasearch for you. You have to do it yourself. All they will do is agree, or disagree. They will do an interpretation to get a classification on a device but it takes about 6-8 weeks. I finally found a product used in trucking that does the same as mine. There website isclick for kwikloc.com
They sell a 'Combination Tag Axle/Converter Dolly" We all know what a tag axle is, but many prolly dont know what a converter dolly is. A converter dolly converts a semi trailer into a full trailer.

A semi trailer is what an RV trailer is. It is a trailer that does not support all of its own weight. Since an RV trailer has a tongue weight it is legally considered a semi trailer.

A full trailer supports its own weight with the use of spread axles or the use of a converter dolly.

My hitch has been classified with the NHTSA as a "Combination Tag Axle/Converter Dolly" which is awesome!

There has been a new law written that requires all NEW automotive products to be registered with The NHTSA and pass all Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. FMVSS . There has been a rush of substandard parts coming in from other countries and they are stopping it.

Ok, since my hitch becomes part of a trailer to convert it into a full trailer, it needs no license plates and that goes for all 50 states. This same law applies to dollies used in trucking. Federally the dolly becomes part of the trailer and all 50 states agree..

I called FMVSS and they said to make my device fully comply I have to add brakes because stopping is as important as supporting. If the tires steered i could get away with no brakes, but still cannot claim FMVSS status. If I want FMVSS status, I have to include brakes.

They said once I add brakes I can claim this as a legal means of removing and supporting the tongue weight of a trailer and that would be 50 state legal. They also said what a really great idea!!!

So in my case on my rig. My tongue weight is 1200. My hitch supports 1000lbs of that. So legally only 200lbs are on my truck. My truck has a payload of 1500, so with my trailer attached, I still have 1300 lbs of payload left. This will be 50 state legal! This would be the first device of its kind that has full legal status in the automotive world!

With that. Here is what I face.
I'm worried that by adding another 300 bucks for brakes I will price the hitch out of reach.
Just to build one costs me 2000 bucks not including liability insurance. This includes parts and biz expense. Parts is 1500 and biz is 500.. I have done everything I can to trim costs. People dont understand this hitch includes the components of a trailer, a hitch and an air suspension in one very tiny package.. The cost has been the biggest comment I have received. Everyone thinks I could sell some but the costs really limit it.

I would have to ask 3000 bucks at a minimum to sell these. I would make 600 bucks which is 30%, salesmen would make 150 and shipping is 250 avg.

If I want product liability insurance it will cost 57000 bucks for the first year. I can get another loan for that if I want. I will have to write that off as a loss. I can then get into a mfr association and the second year will go down to around 10000 bucks. No association will take me because this prodcut is brand new. they wont risk there members costs till my idea is proven with time.

Because of the P L ins costs all my local investors backed out.

To get the attention of outside investors I need to show mass manufacturing ability as well as a legal product.

I have shown my product will meet all safety standards and will be legal to remove GVW from a truck. Now I have to show the ability to mass manufacture.

I have floated this whole thing myself so far. I have put 45k into it. I now need to get 50 k to show the mass manufacturing ability.. But at this point I can sell them myself if I cant find outside investment.

So my question is: Would people pay 3000 bucks for a device to remove the tongue weight from the tow vehicle. This makes towing a trailer as easy as driving your truck without a trailer..

I'm pretty much to the point of just dropping the idea of manufacturing it and thinking maybe of just selling the idea.. But your not going to get much for it. Comparred to manufacturing it over time.

But I made my goal!!!. I made a device that is legal to use as a way to remove gvw from the tow vehicle while towing a trailer, and one that increases safety prolly 10 fold over anything presently available..

I have some heavy thinkin to do...

Thanks for your input all thruout this whole thing.

Carey


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Wow! Congratulations, I think.









I'm not sure many opinions are going to be worth more than $.02, but here's mine.

I would think the Hensley is proof of where the price point can be successful from a marketing standpoint. (While I have no doubt would sell way more than 3 times as many at a 1/3 the price, maybe they started in the same situation you did.) One thing that brings up though is they offer a lifetime transferrable warranty, which includes replacement of certain parts as necessary (which arguable doesn't apply to you).

I guess I'd be concerned about the braking though. That would seem from a marketing standpoint to change the product from a simple mechanical device that drastically improves towing to a "whole nutter level" of complexity and sophistication that might make people nervous or hesitant.

The other thing I'd note is maybe you're taking the wrong approach with the manufacturing considerations. I've talked to people who have gone the venture capital route... and one thing that was surprising to learn is that those people (the ones with the money) don't expect that you'll be able to manufacture anything. They want to invest in your idea, not your manufacturing capability. One friend I know was told by a VC "broker" guy to totally forget about any manufacturing issues because the VC people that are really serious have manufacturing facilities ready to go and can be mass producing your product in a very short time.

In that kind of scenario the liability issue isn't yours to worry about. Granted, you may have to give up a little more control than you wanted to, but from what I've researched that's by far the #1 reasons why people never make it past the position you're in right now.

Again, the best of luck!


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Do you have a picture of one? I am trying to understand what you are describing. I am pretty sure that, provided your hitch removes tongue weight and helps reduce/eliminate sway that people are going to be interested in it.

I can't give you an opinion about it because, from where I sit, I don't know what's involved from the consumer point. Putting the unit on, taking it off, if its necessary to do so, leveling the trailer when detached, weight etc. etc. etc.

Can you give a little more detail? Like Boater Dan said. If People will pay 3k for a Hensley and it operates as well or better than..sounds to me like you got a winner.

Eric


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

egregg57 said:


> Do you have a picture of one? I am trying to understand what you are describing. I am pretty sure that, provided your hitch removes tongue weight and helps reduce/eliminate sway that people are going to be interested in it.
> 
> I can't give you an opinion about it because, from where I sit, I don't know what's involved from the consumer point. Putting the unit on, taking it off, if its necessary to do so, leveling the trailer when detached, weight etc. etc. etc.
> 
> ...


You can click this for info. click

Carey


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Hey Carey,

Sounds like things are falling into place as far as the feds are concerned. Good deal!









Here's a few random thoughts, and I guess they tend to mirror much of what Dan just said.

Price wise, $3,000 is not unreasonable, especially considering that is what a Hensley costs. Nice a hitch as the Hensley is, the impression will be that the consumer is getting a lot more with your system. Just look at them side by side... which looks like more for the money?

I'm not sure that even $3,000 is realistic. You have hit some of the major expenses, but there are others. Marketing can and will get very expensive, if you want this system to achieve any kind of wide spread exposure. Manufacturing wise, are you going to sub it out, or do it yourself? If you are setting up shop, you have to start considering employees, benefits, capital equipment, lot's of stuff. Plus, the cost of just running a business is surprising. There tends to be a lot more there than meets the eye.

It's been pretty well established - with exceptions of course - that from an entrepreneurial point of view, the 'idea' people (inventors and creators) are rarely the best at running a business once it's a going concern. In many cases, it comes down to a matter of boredom on the inventors part. What they like is developing new things, creating the next big thing, and really don't want to be bothered with the daily grind once the initial excitement wears off.

All that said, you may be best off selling the idea to a more established manufacturer. An established manufacturer can probably add the process of building your hitch to their current lines for much less than you can (brings cost down, and profit up). Plus, they will already have the marketing machine in place, an established dealer network, and probably be suitably covered from a liability perspective already.

I would look at selling the rights to manufacture on a royalty basis. You will not make as much as you are thinking now. maybe only $100 a hitch, instead of $600, but the flip side is that you will never have to invest another dime of your own money in the future. Someone else is accepting all the risk and liability. You might also look at including a performance clause in the rights, maybe giving the the manufacturer five years to sell a certain level of units. If they do not meet the quota, the rights to manufacture return to you, giving you the opportunity to find another company that may perform better. In all likelihood, this approach would further cut into the royalty a manufacturer would agree to pay, but you would retain some control over your future income.

All of this, of course, is dependant on receiving your patent(s). And they better be good ones! Any manufacturer is going to want to turn their own engineers loose on your creation, and they will be on it like a fly on you know what! On the high road, they will be looking to see if it really works, and is it something they want to be involved in, and can make money on. On the low road, they will be looking for ways to beat your patents. If they can find a way around them, what do they need you for? All in all, this can get very tricky, but still may be the best option for you at this time. In any case, plan on making a few more payments on your attorneys new Mercedes before all is said and done!

As far as the brakes are concerned, a couple more thoughts...

First, the additional brakes could be a great marketing tool. That should be an easy sell, as trailer brakes are not that great to start with, and anything more will be viewed as a big safety plus. But...

How are they going to work when you head into a corner, and have to 'raise' your system? As soon as you unload the hitch wheels, the braking potential disappears. That could in fact end up being a safety negative. At the very least it will require some careful additional testing to see just what happens.

Also, how would such a brake system be activated? Would a typical trailer brake controller, such as a Prodigy, be up to the task of properly controlling the braking dynamics of such a system? There are going to be rate transfer issues when using your system that are quite different than what is currently the norm for these controllers. Is it going to require a new kind of brake controller ($$$), or will it be integrated into your TV's braking system (scary!).

Finally, how do you add brakes into the system? With the smaller diameter wheels you prefer using, is there anything available 'off-the-shelf'?

All in all, you are right. A lot to consider! I sure wouldn't just give up on it though. It looks like you really may have something here, and it would be a shame to drop it at this point. But then, it's not my financial future at stake either!

Good luck,
Doug


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

BoaterDan said:


> Wow! Congratulations, I think.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea Ive looked into those.. Dont want to go that way if i can help it.. There are VC's looking to be in the manufacture of a product in hopes of turning a company with nothing to something.. Then we sell out to a large company like the one who ownes reese hitch/draw tite/hidden hitch.. Or I buy him out.. The VC makes his money, I continue to work for my company and continue to manufacture the product, with a nice sum in the bank.. There are a bunch of companies who own small manufacturing companies that the original owners still run.. They are just holders.. They make money by bartering companies that they own for new ventures buying other companies..

If I go the way you are desribing I will net about 2% or less of net profit.. Plus this ends up getting made in china... I'd like to try the other approach.. But maybe will have to let it go to china. Honestly I think I'd just forget it... lol

I'm kinda with you.. I finally cant beleive this can be legal, but now I have some rather huge decisions.. I'm very happy but also very scared! Now I have to step up to continue. I'm making hitches but its going to take more than I have to withstand the time it takes to educate people to this idea.. I have to get enough money in a loan to quit my job altogether to put all my time into this to make this penny shiney so I can look for more money..

My job in the next few months are making this penny as shiney as I can with a business plan, manufacturing ability, attitude and approach that someone will jump in with me and go for it... But maybe I should just forget it... Its just a big fat gamble.. Its defiantly at a pinnacle.. Has me perplexed..

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Yep your prolly right on Doug... I am a very stubborn person, but prolly need to face the fact your right!.. I love building things though.. I love a daily grind... Shoot I'm a truck driver! I would fit right in.. lol

As for the brakes. They are available in a 7 inch model which are approved for 2000lbs.

I am using this controller.. My Dad had one on his car dolly when he had a MH.. You set it and forget it.. clicky Works awesome for light loads.. Its pretty much one of its kind..

I will then run a wire from my master switch to the brake control on the hitch..

When the switch is flipped to dump, it will shut down the controller and stop the brakes from working. When the compressor on switch is flipped, the brakes will work.. This is all low speed stuff so you dont even feel the difference.

Honestly this is for looks and to get it passed thru the feds.. You actually have much better braking and contol with this hitch than you do without it.. You loose front end braking ability in a panic stop because the nose of the trailer is pushing hard on the rear of the tow vehicle.. This hitch stops that, so your front brakes on the tow vehicle work much better. I mean much better..

But in a hard stop these lil brakes will help a small amount.. So they are needed truly.. But if thats what it takes to have the first bumper pull converter dolly approved by the feds for legal use.. I'm there!

Carey


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Do you have a picture of one? I am trying to understand what you are describing. I am pretty sure that, provided your hitch removes tongue weight and helps reduce/eliminate sway that people are going to be interested in it.
> 
> I can't give you an opinion about it because, from where I sit, I don't know what's involved from the consumer point. Putting the unit on, taking it off, if its necessary to do so, leveling the trailer when detached, weight etc. etc. etc.
> 
> ...


You can click this for info. click

Carey
[/quote]

Wow! now that's some hardware!! I read Dougs post and agree. There is more to chew on. The Brake hurdle conquered and you may be all set. I am no business man though. I am going to spend some more time on the site and poke around. Thanks!

Eric


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Here is a link to 7 inch brakes real quick.

CLICKY

Carey


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Not so sure brakes for looks with minimal working pressure will satisfy. You are a trucker, so you have seen brake inspections by DOT. I had been parked if the brakes were 1/8 of an inch out on the trailer. Just a thought.

I have no advise but I do give you a lot of credit for your resolve and effort to get to this point







Good luck with your decision.

John


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

tdvffjohn said:


> Not so sure brakes for looks with minimal working pressure will satisfy. You are a trucker, so you have seen brake inspections by DOT. I had been parked if the brakes were 1/8 of an inch out on the trailer. Just a thought.
> 
> I have no advise but I do give you a lot of credit for your resolve and effort to get to this point
> 
> ...


No John they would fully work.. With the seperate controller you could easilly skid them if youd like. Its just that a 7 inch brake cannot do a whole lot for braking.

My GVW of the hitch is 1850lbs based on tire ratings, The bearings and stub axle are rated for 2000 lbs.. The 7 inch brakes are meant to work in unison with the parts I use with this hitch..

When you buy these parts, they are all grouped together to be able to have everything pass fed standards and work together in unison..

Like FMVSS said, if you want to support more GVW in a different spot other than a rear axle of the truck. That spot needs the added braking ability too.. If you are going over GVW of your truck you also need more brake ability too to say it differently. This passes there standards.

But like I said you gain an incredible amount of braking ability just from using the hitch.. When you step on the brakes the rig stops almost as well as a truck with no trailer.. So adding a couple more brakes will only enhance that.. But I have towed 1000's of miles without brakes on the hitch and done many braking tests. The ability to stand on the brakes with no push from the trailer is just amazing. So like I said, to be honest I am only doing this for standards approval.. They really arent needed..

Carey


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

Just a thought - maybe not a good one, but it's safe and you could make a nice profit.

Shop around for a trailer company or a hitch company that might be willing to buy your design (if you have it patented - if not, you should) and they also agree to pay you royalties on sales. Such a company has the capital and the legal departments to handle all the scary and confusing stuff.

Or perhaps you could find an investor (private or corporate) to help you bring this thing to market who would be willing to form a Limited Liability Corporation (LLC), which would keep you and your personal assets protected from the Corporation's liabilities.

But you may wish to reap 100% of the fruits of your labor and your ingenuity, and not share the glory of what looks to be quite an invention. But also be aware that the process of getting this thing manufactured, marketed, advertised, distributed, and sold is not for the faint of heart. Like you said, this thing could bankrupt you.

But hey, if you have faith and the intestinal fortitude to make this go, and if your family knows and can accept the risks involved, then by all means, cautiously dip your toe in the waters - but take things carefully and slowly. (And here's where all those jokes about lawyers no longer seem funny, 'cause you will need legal advice every step of the way.)

Just my humble, conservative opinion.

Mke


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

I really think this hitch is a great idea and with it rated to remove tongue weight then there will be a big market. It could be used with any trailer like boats, car trailer and U-Haul trailers. You might be able to sell them to U-Haul so that they could rent them to people with marginal TV's. You might be able to sell them to any rental yard. It sure has a lot of good selling points like safety, add carrying capacity, ease of towing, less wear and tear on TV, piece of mind. I hope you get it on the market and make a bundle of money and some day be able to enjoy the fruits of you labor. Good Luck Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Scoutr2 said:


> Just a thought - maybe not a good one, but it's safe and you could make a nice profit.
> 
> Shop around for a trailer company or a hitch company that might be willing to buy your design (if you have it patented - if not, you should) and they also agree to pay you royalties on sales. Such a company has the capital and the legal departments to handle all the scary and confusing stuff.
> 
> ...


Hi, You bet I have a patent! But its pending.. Takes about 2-3 years for em to get a number appropriated. That was the most expensive part so far, but my lawyer is quickly catching up.. lol That patent cost me 10k, and it is about as bullet proof as they get patent wise.. Every idea can be made differently though in this world.

I have a feeling before this is over I will have to apply for another patent using this one plus a new one.

I do have an LLC formed here in Colorado, but that may need changed to a S Corp soon.. I pretty much have gotten all the biz stuff done.. Lawyer helped me out there.... For a.... Well, some of the cost of his 5 series BMW.. lol

I'm defiantly not as good with the biz stuff.. I'd rather just stay in a shop and build hitches and let someone else do everything else, but it doesnt work that way.. I learn new stuff everday! One thing it has been is fun.. Now there are too many forks in the road... Gives me headaches to think about!

Well better go to bed, I have been working 2-3 days a week to float the house bills. I need more time on this though, I have so much to do I'm getting behind cause my regular Work is slowing me down! lol

Carey


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## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

Carey,
First of all god bless every entreprenuer (spell check) You are exactly what the American economy needs. So if I buy your hitch, and now my trailer is independant of my truck, can't I load my truck with say a couple of dirt bikes, sleds whatever the toy of the day is that I couldn't before, because my trailer was eating my GVW? IF I understood correctly, I think you just eliminated a second vehicle for a lot of people.
Best of Luck,
Ember


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Carey,

It sounds like almost everything is in place. I'm a conservatuve guy however and that being my nature, IF it were me, I would be looking into limiting the risk to my family. I know you don't want to have to answer to anyone, but is there any chance of a LLC or other buisness model that would provide you with some of the funding without risking your entire future? I undestand there is no way to completely remove the financial risk, I just wonder if there is a way to lessen it?


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

ember said:


> Carey,
> First of all god bless every entreprenuer (spell check) You are exactly what the American economy needs. So if I buy your hitch, and now my trailer is independant of my truck, can't I load my truck with say a couple of dirt bikes, sleds whatever the toy of the day is that I couldn't before, because my trailer was eating my GVW? IF I understood correctly, I think you just eliminated a second vehicle for a lot of people.
> Best of Luck,
> Ember


Yeppers.. lol that was my plan.. So someone could do exactly as you say. This would be totally legal.. You know all I am doing here is taking advantage of the laws that are in trucking and applying them to automotive.. We all know how fast semis run with 80000lbs down the highway even pulling 2 trailers... My idea was to make a mini version of what us truckers use.. It is already proven in physics in billions of miles.. So there is absolutly no reason it cant work in automotive..

When trucking companies have big loads to move they use dollies in all sorts of ways to make everything legal and knowone has a second thought..

A guy goes and makes a mini version of the exact science that is well proven in trucking to be used in automotive and everyone thinks it crazy... I laugh my butt off... If the poor dude only knew.. lol

But yep you can use the gvw in a whole other way.. The only thing to worry about is not going over gross combined rating..

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Nathan said:


> Carey,
> 
> It sounds like almost everything is in place. I'm a conservatuve guy however and that being my nature, IF it were me, I would be looking into limiting the risk to my family. I know you don't want to have to answer to anyone, but is there any chance of a LLC or other buisness model that would provide you with some of the funding without risking your entire future? I undestand there is no way to completely remove the financial risk, I just wonder if there is a way to lessen it?


Yea after reading the posts here, talking to family and friends, I am taking a calm approach. I have Finally decided I cant do this on my own.. Stubborn as i am its really true.









I have all the brake hardware coming.. I'm gonna build a couple to use for testing over the next few months.. That needs done first.. My good friend with his 35 footer and a duramax is in mexico till april 1st.. I will wait till I can put this on his with brakes and do some heavy testing.. His poor 3/4 ton is in as bad of shape as our 1/2 tons.. He has a 15 pushing 1600 lb tongue weight.. He is 70 and hates towing but loves his camper.. said he will die in it.. lol When he is here for the summer he lets me drive his rig all I want to do testing with.. Next year when he goes to mexico, he is going to be one relaxed dude with my hitch... he cant wait!

So I'm gonna just be cool till then..

I'll make a pretty biz plan, and continue network on the net, and just look for help.. I do want to keep it, so I'll try every avenue.. If it doesnt work out i can say I tried... Thats about all I can do..

Thanks for the words guys.. Thanks for letting me lean on you....... Means Alot!

If I ever get an investor dude, you guys are the beta testers<wink>

Carey


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## jbmanno (Mar 30, 2007)

Hi Carey,
I just checked out your website...the idea is something that I would definately use. I originally thought that the $3,000 price tag was a bit steep, but looking at how ur "Hitch Hog" is built (quality and materials) and what is included, I have to say that it is well worth the asking price. (ie. gauges, spare tire, an on board compressor) Hope everything works out. And if you decide you want to sell any of your prototypes, I'm interested!!
Joe


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

I think you'd have to be cautious thinking you just enabled youself to throw another 500 pounds in the bed of the truck. Those weight ratings are not made taking this kind of rig into account.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Dan brings up an interesting point. However, assuming you aren't trying to remove weight from the rear axle of the truck (just redirecting trailer tounge wieght) and you stay below the GCWR, I can't see how it would be a big problem. Of course if you don't dump the airbag on a turn with an old GM hitch, I wonder if the hitch or the tires win?!?!


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## snipperkyle (Apr 9, 2007)

I think you have a very good idea but also being a truck driver the only thing that will be a draw back is that the average camper will never be able to back up using the dolly getting into there site or if they get in a tight spot like a gas station or something they will have to unhook or break something!!! But as far as the brakes by adding another brakeing axel they won't need to be very large, with 3 sets doing the stopping it should brake very well. You could have the dolly with a mounted hard wired pig tail for camper and then plug dolly into t/v most of your better controllers will handle 3 axels, your brakes worked before no matter how much the dolly does for stopping it will all be better. just my .02


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

snipperkyle said:


> I think you have a very good idea but also being a truck driver the only thing that will be a draw back is that the average camper will never be able to back up using the dolly getting into there site or if they get in a tight spot like a gas station or something they will have to unhook or break something!!! But as far as the brakes by adding another brakeing axel they won't need to be very large, with 3 sets doing the stopping it should brake very well. You could have the dolly with a mounted hard wired pig tail for camper and then plug dolly into t/v most of your better controllers will handle 3 axels, your brakes worked before no matter how much the dolly does for stopping it will all be better. just my .02


Hey Brother!

Its not a dolly like us truckers use.. It doesnt swivel at all nor do the tires turn.. You can back up without issue..

If the brake controller sences 3 axles and then one all of the suuden gets opened, as in shut down it may throw some of these smart controllers into a code mode.. Plus the amount of braking needed for the trailer wont work in all instances for the hitch.. Since one guy would have 1200lbs on it and another guy might have 700lbs on it, it needs to be able to be controlled independantly of the trailer.

To make 90* turns or tight backing I dump the air in the bag, which removes all of the weight on the tires, just like the reefer, and spread axle flat bed guys do to keep from scrubbing the front axle tires.. I also shut down the brakes to keep from skidding them.. So the tires do not turn or the unit doesnt swivel in any way.. This works very well, and is cheap.. A steerable axle with a lockout control would add 400+ dollars to my cost which would end up as more money for everyone.. This is cheap and works very well.

Drive safe!
Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

BoaterDan said:


> I think you'd have to be cautious thinking you just enabled youself to throw another 500 pounds in the bed of the truck. Those weight ratings are not made taking this kind of rig into account.


This is the common problem the public has concerning weight on vehicles..

If the weight isnt on the truck as in weight on the tires, then how would the truck know or even you know that the weight is there? Its no longer part of the truck!

Yes the weight ratings are there for a reason.. But if the weight isnt on the truck from the trailer, then that opens up the availbilty to add weight to the truck to its gvw..

This is no different in trucking.. We are allowed so much on each axle, same as us RV'ers.. Us truckers add axles to spread our weight to stay in our numbers.. If the weight isnt there then you can add weight till you reach the gross number doesnt matter to the truck where its placed, it has no clue!.. People have a hard time understanding this.. The laws and ratings allow so much weight and whatever you do to shift the weight is fine till you reach that final number..

I know it still makes lil since for many..

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Nathan said:


> Dan brings up an interesting point. However, assuming you aren't trying to remove weight from the rear axle of the truck (just redirecting trailer tounge wieght) and you stay below the GCWR, I can't see how it would be a big problem. Of course if you don't dump the airbag on a turn with an old GM hitch, I wonder if the hitch or the tires win?!?!


The hitch will never be hurt in slow turns regaurdless of how much weight is on it.. Its the bounce from overloading going down the highway that hurts it.. Again this is a myth people have a hard time with.. Turning a corner with weight on it has no effect on it... Its the bounce that hurts it.. Same as in trucking... Semi trailers break all the time, not from the weight... From the weight in a bouncing fashion... A factory GM hitch will be just fine..

I have winched badly stuck trucks from a reciever mounted hook when 4x4n and the hitch has never been hurt.. You can hang your truck plus mine from your reciever tube... You could prolly add a ford super duty to that..

You know dude next time you see a semi, pay close attention to the front bumper... You will see two receiver tubes holes.. We use a 2x2 reciever tube to unstick an 80000 lb stuck semi.. We plug a hook into the reciever and pull the truck out of a ditch, or flip it over this way...

The reciever tube is exactly the same as ours in size and thickness.. The reciever has some incredible ratings..

This hitch relieves all the stress on a hitch.. The bouncing is absorbed by the air bag.. This hitch is good for your hitch....

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Nathan said:


> Dan brings up an interesting point. However, assuming you aren't trying to remove weight from the rear axle of the truck (just redirecting trailer tounge wieght) and you stay below the GCWR, I can't see how it would be a big problem. Of course if you don't dump the airbag on a turn with an old GM hitch, I wonder if the hitch or the tires win?!?!


The lil tires are tough as heck.. You can drag the heck out of them if you want, it wont hurt them as far as peeling a bead. Another myth... has anyone ever had many of these tires fail?... ive used em on snowmobile trailers, and motorcycle trailers.. Many times running way over the 65 mph rating.. Ive never had one fail... has anyone else? Ive ran these lil tires in 110* degree heat on this hitch at 75+ mph for hours and hours....

Maybe if they are 5+ years old they do, same as an old RV trailer tire does...

I dont see very many blown up out there on the highways and I spend the entire day on the highway.. So whats the deal?..

The deal is in the old days we didnt have little tires so people used aircraft tires.. Aircraft tires are not made for sustanined running... They blow up easilly... Now all these lil tires have a bad rap...

How come everyone picks on these lil tires... For there size they are tough as heck... I can even get E rated 8 inch tires that are rated for 1100 lbs each..

Again another myth... man where is mythbusters when we need em.. lol

Carey


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> I think you'd have to be cautious thinking you just enabled youself to throw another 500 pounds in the bed of the truck. Those weight ratings are not made taking this kind of rig into account.


This is the common problem the public has concerning weight on vehicles..

If the weight isnt on the truck as in weight on the tires, then how would the truck know or even you know that the weight is there? Its no longer part of the truck!

Yes the weight ratings are there for a reason.. But if the weight isnt on the truck from the trailer, then that opens up the availbilty to add weight to the truck to its gvw..

This is no different in trucking.. We are allowed so much on each axle, same as us RV'ers.. Us truckers add axles to spread our weight to stay in our numbers.. If the weight isnt there then you can add weight till you reach the gross number doesnt matter to the truck where its placed, it has no clue!.. People have a hard time understanding this.. The laws and ratings allow so much weight and whatever you do to shift the weight is fine till you reach that final number..

I know it still makes lil since for many..

Carey
[/quote]

I hear what you're saying and don't discount the advantages you claim, but taken at face value the statements are just plain silly.

Try chaining your truck up to a mile long freight train. OF COURSE the TV is going to know it's back there! But there's no weight on the TV axles, how can that be?

My point is just that it will be just as naive, and potentially fatal, to think that because you've moved weight off your TV axles you can just replace it with other junk without taking the GCWR into account. The TV will always know and care about weight added to the mix, regardless of where it's added. That's why there is a GCWR in the first place.

*Edit:*
Just read again what you said and we're saying the same thing. Forget the train example as you weren't making that point. I was really just addressing the naive person who has never considered any of these ratings beyond what the TT dealer told him.

One point I might make though - when you say it doesn't matter where the weight is added as long as you're under GCWR... that's only in the context of your type of hitch setup. Under normal/traditional circumstances it does of course, as you have to take tongue weight and all those other details into account to reduce sway potential. So, one of the *advantages of your hitch *is that it doesn't matter where you put the weight. Again, just trying to be crystal clear to somebody who might misinterpret the point out of ignorance.


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## Not Yet (Dec 13, 2004)

How does this system differ from a tow buddy? In other than price.

http://www.rvstuff.com/Tow-Buddy/


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> The deal is in the old days we didnt have little tires so people used aircraft tires.. Aircraft tires are not made for sustanined running... They blow up easilly... Now all these lil tires have a bad rap...
> 
> How come everyone picks on these lil tires... For there size they are tough as heck... I can even get E rated 8 inch tires that are rated for 1100 lbs each..


You're just a fountain of information. Like our very own little Discovery Channel. I really appreciate all your input and education Carey.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Not Yet said:


> How does this system differ from a tow buddy? In other than price.
> 
> http://www.rvstuff.com/Tow-Buddy/


That's for 5th wheels and is meant to solve a different problem I think. For one thing you could tow a 5th wheel with an SUV. (You'd probably have to be careful of overall length in some states though.)

But is the tow-buddy taking the non-sway advantage of a 5th wheel and turning it back into a reciever hitch sway problem?


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