# New Tv Advice Needed



## MattFromPA (Aug 31, 2011)

Trading my Jeep Grand Cherokee for something more appropriate for our 2005 21RS. The JGC was too small anyway. I'm interested in what TV others have for their Outbacks of the same size.

Besides the usual towing concerns, we have two small kids and two dogs. Whatever I buy needs to be versatile and good for running short trips and longer highway runs. The in-laws are 140 miles away and we spend many weekends with them. Reliability is very important too. Even though I do most of my own work I like to minimize the time spent under the hood. Any and all advice and ideas are appreciated!


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## Herbicidal (Aug 29, 2003)

2007 or 2008 Tundra CrewMax! That back seat is H-U-G-E !!! My two kids love it and it slides forward and reclines! Plenty of room still for the two dogs. I picked up a used 2007, 5.7 liter v8, 4x4 with TRD and tow packages at a local Toyota dealership 4 months ago for $25K. I have plenty of room inside for everyone and even though the bed is only 5.5' long, it's quite deep. Tows our 2004, 26' Outback RS quite nicely. Averaged 11 mpg while towing on the flats at 60 mph. Anyway, that's my vote!


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

The CrewMax would do very well for you with kids and dogs. The short bed has it's limitations, so I covered it with a shell and now I basically have a large SUV with seating for five. Towing mileage stinks, usually a combined 8-9mpg. Last trip I watched the mileage and we were getting a fantastic 13mpg with flat, highway driving at 60mph. Once I started climbing up to the 4,000 foot elevation campground, the mileage plummeted down to 9mpg.


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## MattFromPA (Aug 31, 2011)

Thanks for the quick replies. Only problem is, and I should have mentioned this, we don't want a pickup truck. Not enough use for a pickup other than for towing. So what SUV experience does everyone have?



Insomniak said:


> The CrewMax would do very well for you with kids and dogs. The short bed has it's limitations, so I covered it with a shell and now I basically have a large SUV with seating for five. Towing mileage stinks, usually a combined 8-9mpg. Last trip I watched the mileage and we were getting a fantastic 13mpg with flat, highway driving at 60mph. Once I started climbing up to the 4,000 foot elevation campground, the mileage plummeted down to 9mpg.


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## joeymac (Aug 19, 2010)

MattFromPA said:


> The CrewMax would do very well for you with kids and dogs. The short bed has it's limitations, so I covered it with a shell and now I basically have a large SUV with seating for five. Towing mileage stinks, usually a combined 8-9mpg. Last trip I watched the mileage and we were getting a fantastic 13mpg with flat, highway driving at 60mph. Once I started climbing up to the 4,000 foot elevation campground, the mileage plummeted down to 9mpg.


[/quote]

I have a Chevy Suburban 2500 and tow a 312BH. My Suburban does great. I am guessing that with the 21RS you could get by with a 1500 Suburban.
Gas mileage on the 2500 is not good, I think I get around 12-15 MPG, and would imagine that the 1500 with the 5.3L V8 would get around 15-18. 
Good luck !


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## ftwildernessguy (Oct 12, 2009)

Well, I was gonna say I have an 2005 Ford F150 Supercab, but since you don't want a pickup, never mind.


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## Snow (Sep 27, 2011)

I would suggest you look for something that has a diesel engine, if you can afford the extra that it would cost.. You'll get pretty decent mileage, Not sure if there are too many SUV's out there with diesels though.. The 2500 Suburbans did/do have them, but not sure what else ... One option you can do is buy a pickup and a cap for the box like Insomniak did.. then the doggies can hang out in the back..


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

Snow said:


> I would suggest you look for something that has a diesel engine, if you can afford the extra that it would cost.. You'll get pretty decent mileage, Not sure if there are too many SUV's out there with diesels though.. The 2500 Suburbans did/do have them, but not sure what else ... One option you can do is buy a pickup and a cap for the box like Insomniak did.. then the doggies can hang out in the back..


The Suburban hasn't offered a diesel in 20+ years. There aren't any SUV's with diesels currently. The last one was the Ford Excursion which was last produced in 2005. If you want something older Excursion is a great tow vehicle in gas or diesel. It's a behemoth weighing over 7000lbs and gas mileage is poor. The diesel was first a 7.3 liter then a 6.0 liter. The prices on used diesel Excursions are thru the roof though. I would just get something full size with a V8. That means Suburban, Expedition, Armada, Sequoia. Any of them would be fine but they will all be hard on fuel. There's really no answer for towing ability and fuel economy except for a diesel. But then the initial cost is much higher. You could try and find the perfect midsize SUV but why bother? It wont do the job as well and fuel savings is negligible anyway.


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## cdawrld (Jul 31, 2011)

For your consideration I suggest Audi Q7 TDI. A SUV diesel. I can tow 6000lb with the AC on and get 12-14mpg. 25mpg solo.


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## Snow (Sep 27, 2011)

rsm7 said:


> The Suburban hasn't offered a diesel in 20+ years. There aren't any SUV's with diesels currently. The last one was the Ford Excursion which was last produced in 2005. If you want something older Excursion is a great tow vehicle in gas or diesel. It's a behemoth weighing over 7000lbs and gas mileage is poor. The diesel was first a 7.3 liter then a 6.0 liter. The prices on used diesel Excursions are thru the roof though. I would just get something full size with a V8. That means Suburban, Expedition, Armada, Sequoia. Any of them would be fine but they will all be hard on fuel. There's really no answer for towing ability and fuel economy except for a diesel. But then the initial cost is much higher. You could try and find the perfect midsize SUV but why bother? It wont do the job as well and fuel savings is negligible anyway.


Has been that long ?? wow .. Tells you the last time I looked at a diesel Suburban ... lol .. then I guess that means a gasser..
How about the Durango ???


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

Snow said:


> Has been that long ?? wow .. Tells you the last time I looked at a diesel Suburban ... lol .. then I guess that means a gasser..
> How about the Durango ???


According to wikipedia it was 1999. The old 6.5L diesel. So I guess its MY memory that is bad!


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## MattFromPA (Aug 31, 2011)

We're looking at a Tahoe or Yukon now, or possibly a Nissan Aramada. Nice thing about Yukon/Tahoe is the ability to run on 4 cylinders on the highway, really helps with the mileage. Obviously that won't work when towing but I need to consider everything, and gas isn't getting any cheaper.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Diesel pick up with a shell on the back. You can get plenty of options for power and many of them have tons of interior room and with the shell it is a big cargo area that you can pretend is the back of an SUV. Then when you decide to upgrade the trailer in a couple of years you are still set with the truck.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

MattFromPA said:


> We're looking at a Tahoe or Yukon now, or possibly a Nissan Aramada. Nice thing about Yukon/Tahoe is the ability to run on 4 cylinders on the highway, really helps with the mileage. Obviously that won't work when towing but I need to consider everything, and gas isn't getting any cheaper.


unless they made them better than a couple of years ago........ you will never see any real world benefits. unless you are driving flat or downhill all of the time.

My foot was simply to heavy to ever see any benefits of it dropping to 4............... salespeople love to tell you about it though


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

I had an 07 GMC 1/2 ton pickup that I traded for my F250 and it had the 5.3 with the cylinder management system. I could get 19-20 mpg on a long highway trip with the cruise set at 70. A Tahoe is OK but a tad short. The third seat in a Tahoe takes up all your cargo space. You can remove it but then it takes up your garage space. And dont kid yourself, those seats are big and heavy. I would just get the Suburban and be done with it. The extra length will help in towing and you can never have enough room with a growing family. As for a pickup with a cap that's what I do with my dogs. Unless its over 90 degrees on a long trip then I let them in the cab.


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## WYOCAMPER (Mar 28, 2007)

Matt, 
You are going to need a 1.5 ton diesel dually pick up. Nothing less will pull a 21rs. You may also need to do $3000 in performance modifications to get you over the hills, too.

JK!

I don't think you need a diesel to pull a 21rs. You are on the right track looking at the Tahoe/Yukon. Armada, Sequoia, Expedition are others that may fit your needs. Be sure not to overload your truck or trailer and get a decent weight distribution set up with sway control. They may not pull like a diesel, but you should be safe pulling a 21rs with any of these.


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## MattFromPA (Aug 31, 2011)

Thanks!

I do have a WDH with sway control. My main concerns are a proper wheelbase and enough GCVWR to be safe.

As far as the truck ideas, that is a total non-starter with my wife. The dogs will never ride in a pickup bed, no-way no-how. Someday when the kids are gone, I can see going that route and getting a fifth wheel. But until then we're going to be limited in trailer size I suppose.

I like the Sequoia but man are they hard to find used.



WYOCAMPER said:


> Matt,
> You are going to need a 1.5 ton diesel dually pick up. Nothing less will pull a 21rs. You may also need to do $3000 in performance modifications to get you over the hills, too.
> 
> JK!
> ...


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

MattFromPA said:


> Matt,
> You are going to need a 1.5 ton diesel dually pick up. Nothing less will pull a 21rs. You may also need to do $3000 in performance modifications to get you over the hills, too.
> 
> JK!
> ...


[/quote]

We have a 3/4 ton burb that was our TV and now we are in a Diesel PU

I was always and SUV guy .... specifically a Suburban as i am on my 4th .......... and i love them ............. but a PU is so much handier.........firewood, coolers...........just throw the stuff in the bed and go









We travel with four children.....three across the front and three across the back........ from FL to Maine ................ our Dog is quite happy riding in the Camper.......jumps in and on our bed and curls up and sleeps for the ride......

We are located in SE PA


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

WYOCAMPER said:


> Matt,
> You are going to need a 1.5 ton diesel dually pick up. Nothing less will pull a 21rs. You may also need to do $3000 in performance modifications to get you over the hills, too.
> 
> JK!
> ...


Your first part is obviously tongue in cheek but you are also obviously saying that because you feel any recommendation for a diesel in this case is wrong. I think you could have stated your opinion well enough by just posting the second paragraph. In the future lets try not to insult fellow Outbackers when opinions do not match.


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## SLO250RS (Mar 11, 2010)

Don't rule out the Ford Expedtion with the longer wheelbase you still have 3-rows of seating and cargo space behind the last row,just make sure if you look/find one that it has the h/d tow package b/c of of the 3:73 gear ratio which is much more tow friendly.


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## WYOCAMPER (Mar 28, 2007)

CamperAndy said:


> Matt,
> You are going to need a 1.5 ton diesel dually pick up. Nothing less will pull a 21rs. You may also need to do $3000 in performance modifications to get you over the hills, too.
> 
> JK!
> ...


Your first part is obviously tongue in cheek but you are also obviously saying that because you feel any recommendation for a diesel in this case is wrong. I think you could have stated your opinion well enough by just posting the second paragraph. In the future lets try not to insult fellow Outbackers when opinions do not match.
[/quote]

WOW! Apologies to CamperAndy and anyone else I may have offended with my comment. Didn't mean to insult my fellow Outbackers.com diesel owners. I live in diesel country and have a lot of experience, respect and admiration for oil burners. I will be the first one to tell you that nothing will pull like a diesel (and I have said that in several other posts, too). It was humorous to me, I guess it didn't come across that way in writing. Sorry.


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## deanintemp (Apr 3, 2007)

I pull my 26RS with a 1500 Suburban very well. While the Tahoe size vehicle will pull your rig just fine, the extra wheelbase on the burb provides much more control and it gets about the same gas mileage. You will also love the extra room for the kids, dogs, and "Stuff". I get about 10mpg towing at 70mph and about 15-18 solo at 75mph. Oh, and get "D" rated tires with stiffer side walls and higher pressures.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

deanintemp said:


> I pull my 26RS with a 1500 Suburban very well. While the Tahoe size vehicle will pull your rig just fine, the extra wheelbase on the burb provides much more control and it gets about the same gas mileage. You will also love the extra room for the kids, dogs, and "Stuff". I get about 10mpg towing at 70mph and about 15-18 solo at 75mph. Oh, and get "D" rated tires with stiffer side walls and higher pressures.


Agreed with above but i would go one step further and go with e rated tires.............. even less potential of sway from soft tire squat........... huge difference ..........


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## deanintemp (Apr 3, 2007)

clarkely said:


> I pull my 26RS with a 1500 Suburban very well. While the Tahoe size vehicle will pull your rig just fine, the extra wheelbase on the burb provides much more control and it gets about the same gas mileage. You will also love the extra room for the kids, dogs, and "Stuff". I get about 10mpg towing at 70mph and about 15-18 solo at 75mph. Oh, and get "D" rated tires with stiffer side walls and higher pressures.


Agreed with above but i would go one step further and go with e rated tires.............. even less potential of sway from soft tire squat........... huge difference ..........
[/quote]

Good point on the "E" rated tires..."D" would be the _minimum _for this trailer and tow vehicle set up.


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## #40Fan (Jul 7, 2011)

The PO of my Outback towed it with a 2500 Suburban with the 6.0. Made it to Colorado from Florida, so I am sure it would be perfect for a 21.


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## hautevue (Mar 8, 2009)

Matt: we have a 2008 Ford Expedition EL Eddie Bauer (gas) with factory 4wd and factory tow package. It's the EL (Extended Length) model and perfect for our needs. The Eddie Bauer model has leather seats (nice!) and comes with third row seats that are power operated. Those are options on the base model (the XLT). We bought it used from a dealer in Dec. '08. Ford had struck a deal w/Hertz or Avis or some such, and sold hundreds of them in April 2008 with a guaranteed price for buy-back in Sept '08. Good deal for the rental company since they would know their depreciation in advance. When the vehicles came back to Ford, Ford wholesaled all of them and our dealer bought 10 units. The used car market in Dec 2008 was in the toilet, and so we got a super, super deal. The Expys are very durable (IMHO) and you may be able to find a 2 year old model, well equipped, for a reasonable price. Be sure to buy the model with the factory tow package--some folks contemplate adding the tow package stuff--heavy tranny cooler, oil cooler, radiator, etc., but forget the heavier brakes, etc. The added costs for after-market upgrade is way beyond reasonable, IMHO.

1. It's an SUV to us, not a truck. About the only "truck" feature that is a little annoying is that it's a step UP into the seats, not a "slide sideways" into the car. Trucks simply are a bit higher.

2. Our pooch, Oliver, rides (and sleeps while riding) in the second seat. DW and I are in the front.

3. When used as a "car", there is a ton of space behind the second seat for the usual "stuff", like groceries, etc. It will carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood flat on the floor.

4. The third seat is a power operated split seat (two seats side-by-side). When the seats are up (being used as seats), we carried 6 adults and the dog to the shore (Ocean City, MD) and had room behind the third seats for 5 suitcases for the 6 adults plus a food cooler. Nice storage space while traveling.

5. The extra length of the EL model does two things for us:
a. added storage when traveling
b. a longer wheelbase that makes towing a lot safer.

We tow a 7000+# TT without any arguments from the TV. When that 18 wheeler blows off our doors, the Expy is quite stable. The WDH and friction sway bar works fine. If I had a bigger TT, I would have gotten a Reese or similar WDH and not use a separate friction sway bar as I have now.

6. gas mileage is about what you would expect--not good! We get 16 or 17 around town, 17-18 on the road, and 9 - 10 when towing our Outback. On the positive side, it has a 32 gallon tank so we can go around 300 miles between fillups when towing. The 5 travel hours towing exceeds the range of the driver and DW as well as the dog, so we stop for breaks but not because of the gas consumption!

7. The factory tires (Pirelli Scorpions) are fine. Not the top of the line, but we got 55,000 from the first set and replaced them with the same brand and style. They ride nicely when towing and are not hard and bouncy when not towing. They seem to be a good compromise between "truck" tires and "passenger car" tires.

Good luck on your decision making.


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