# Step Two: A Fifth Wheel.



## campntn (Feb 20, 2005)

Ok, so if I were to go with a fifth-wheel..








I got the pix of the Dutchmen unit and even though the floorplan was absolutely perfect, there were many things to be desired. To his credit, I asked the salesman to take many many pix. Some of the details I wanted to see, hinges, joints, trim fittings, etc. Without getting specific, lets just say I won't be travelling to check that unit out. Life is in the details.

I have exhausted looking at the tt's to fit what we need. BTW, the bunk styles are also known as "jack and jill" bunks. I just found that out by that unit made in Canada. It was nice, very nicely made. Looked upscale and very expensive. Probably more than I'd want to spend anywho.
That leads the search to a fifth wheel. And here I am asking for help. There are 800 blue million kazillion fivers out there and I don't know where to start. 
We want the basic same thing as in a TT.
Giving that, I guess, 3 foot is in the bed, I'd like to still keep bout 27-28 behind me, so no longer than 30 or 31 length? I dunno nuttin bout fivers, Ms. Scarlett....
walk around bed, split level bunks (aka Jack n Jill), place for the kids to be as they grow into teenagers, lots of counterspace and storage. Personally, I would love to have OUR bed be in a side slide in the top of the fiver, would be great to have a king bed up there. MUST is a shower with headroom or skylite. 
In this case, I want fiberglass siding for sure because there are more choices in floorplans and it should be there.
So, I know there are a lot of fiver owners out there, I welcome your links to some choices. 
Got an Outback with that stove/sink outside? LOL. 
Thanks for the help,
Mark
Oh yea, do I have to leave the hitch in the bed all of the time??
And, as a whole, how do the cost of a fiver compare to a tt? I know it depends on a lot, but just as a rule of thumb.


----------



## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

Sounds like your best bet might be to wait until a camper show comes to a venue near you. 
I'd look at Montana's and Forest River (Cardinal), but as you said, there are billions to choose from.
Just a couple of points. Fiver's in general are going to have more storage space than most TT because of the basement under the upper part of the unit.
Also whatever hitch you choose to go with, make sure to get the removable rails. It's an extra cost, but worth it. Mine removes leaving only 4 mounting holes in the bed.

Good luck, Glenn


----------



## jetjane (Feb 8, 2007)

I think it will be tough to find a floor plan in that length that has 2 slides and bunks. You definitely won't find a bunk "room" nor will there be a king bed slide. I take a look around and see what I can find. I enjoy looking at all the different floor plans available so this is kinda fun for me.


----------



## webeopelas (Mar 11, 2006)

Not sure what you can find in the a 28 ft. Look at Heartland RV Sundance line. The only real reason we did not go with that one was the tiny Pantry. Everything else about the unit was nice.

Just bought our 33LBHTS Silverback and love it. But it is 35ft long


----------



## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Now here's a topic I'll watch too!









By the way, having pulled a 5'er before, you are aware that they turn differently right? I can get my 30+' OB around a turn that is slightly tighter than my Dad can get his 32' 5er around (The trailer tires cut inside more). Of course being able to jacknife while backing is a very valuable asset.


----------



## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

webeopelas said:


> Not sure what you can find in the a 28 ft. Look at Heartland RV Sundance line. The only real reason we did not go with that one was the tiny Pantry. Everything else about the unit was nice.
> 
> Just bought our 33LBHTS Silverback and love it. But it is 35ft long


My Dad has the sundance. Very nice trailer with a lot of higher end features. Heck, the quickie flush comes standard!









EDIT:
Most of those seem to be a bit longer than you want, but how about this one:Legends 28' 5er


----------



## jetjane (Feb 8, 2007)

Well I haven't had any luck finding what you want exactly, however, if you gave up the bedroom slide OR if you allowed up to 35' for length it could be done and then there would be quite a few different manufacturers to choose from too.


----------



## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

Only suggestion I have on the 5er issue is to do your math completely B4 settling on floorplans as your truck is going to be the limiting factor due to PIN weight. Make sure you account for all the weight the truck will carry including the 5er hitch, passengers and such. On our 2006 Chevy -GM says in the owners manual you can have 3K PIN but if you do the math on a load for camping trip it is not possible to have 3K PIN without exceeding some of the factory ratings...... just be aware and calculate potential PIN weights from the the trailers GVW potential and determine how you feel about exceeding some factory rating as you will if you buy a 5er 28 ft or bigger. Why I say this is that Gross Axle ratings on your truck are higher than the GVWR...... look at your door tag and you will verify this ......

Also, which size bed does your truck have? If SB get a slider hitch no matter what anyone tells you. It will be needed at some point. IMHO an automatic slider is really needed if you want the lowest stress level and the ability for the DW or some other person to drive your rig in an emergency situation.......having to remember or stop in the middle of the road to release the slider in a tight situation is not low stress....

These are a couple of things found in our search for the "perfect" trailer -we are in process of buying a SOB toy hauler 5er right now. Yeah it has taken over a year to get hear but we won't be buying a different trailer in 6 months or a year from now.... DW was focused on floorplan but I was always looking at length/weight/capacity/component quality.

Map Guy


----------



## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

map guy said:


> Only suggestion I have on the 5er issue is to do your math completely B4 settling on floorplans as your truck is going to be the limiting factor due to PIN weight. Make sure you account for all the weight the truck will carry including the 5er hitch, passengers and such. On our 2006 Chevy -GM says in the owners manual you can have 3K PIN but if you do the math on a load for camping trip it is not possible to have 3K PIN without exceeding some of the factory ratings...... just be aware and calculate potential PIN weights from the the trailers GVW potential and determine how you feel about exceeding some factory rating as you will if you buy a 5er 28 ft or bigger. Why I say this is that Gross Axle ratings on your truck are higher than the GVWR...... look at your door tag and you will verify this ......
> 
> Also, which size bed does your truck have? If SB get a slider hitch no matter what anyone tells you. It will be needed at some point. IMHO an automatic slider is really needed if you want the lowest stress level and the ability for the DW or some other person to drive your rig in an emergency situation.......having to remember or stop in the middle of the road to release the slider in a tight situation is not low stress....
> 
> ...


Excellent advise, anythging beyond 30 feet or with two slides will likely put you beyond your GVWR on a 3/4 ton truck.

Regards, Glenn


----------



## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

I think you might find what you are looking for in a 2008 Keystone Cougar 289BHS: Cougar 289BHS or a 2007 281BHS: 2007 281BHS


----------



## Airboss (Jul 14, 2007)

I've heard great things about KZ trailers. Here's a link to their Durango model's floorplans. They have a model with bunks (and it looks really nice) but it's a bit longer than you are looking for at 32'4". Anyway, check 'em out. I'm really like what I see on their site.


----------



## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

The fiver I have been toying with the idea of getting is the 08 Keystone Laredo 32rs. It has quad bunks up front and main bedroom with slide in the rear.

John


----------



## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Could always look at the Wildcat like what we just got........

Wildcat 32QBBS

Plenty of room on weights with this.










Steve


----------



## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

huntr70 said:


> Could always look at the Wildcat like what we just got........
> 
> Wildcat 32QBBS
> 
> ...


That's pretty nice.


----------



## sia (Jul 7, 2007)

I also say the wildcat. I was just in one this weekend while camping and it was very nice. Walk around bed. bunkhouse/with door and entertainment center. slide for sofa and table. It was a 27bh. The women said she paid $22.000. it was very nice. Alot of cabinets. I didn't like the colors. but it was pretty.


----------



## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

huntr70 said:


> Could always look at the Wildcat like what we just got........
> 
> Wildcat 32QBBS
> 
> ...


Would expect PIN weight to be greater than 2000# at GVW. They show a pin weight of 17% at dry weight to claimed PIN weight. This seems a bit low but that is the trend in the industry. Reality is that claimed Pin weights are usually low just like tongue weights on TT's. Not much carrying capacity left for stuff like firewood, generators, pots and pans when you add the water and LPG weight considering taht FR does the same as most manufacturers -weight the unit without "options" that are a standard build items on every trailer.

Have you put the truck and trailer on the scale yet? Which cab configuration on your Dodge? Kinda curious about the scale weights in relationship to Dodge's Gross Combo WR and Gross Axle WR -Front and Rear.... My guess is that GCWR and front axle weights are in spec but bet you are a bit over on the rear axle if a Mega Cab.....when loaded with family and stuff.

Not trying to bash here just make sure people understand that late model diesel trucks will pull and stop way more weight than the rated capacities. Doing so is a matter of personal choice but should be based on an informed decision and judicious modifications to the TV to handle a bit more weight not just the floorplan!

Personally, in relationship to a 5er my greatest concerns would be keeping within the GCWR and GAWR (front and rear) especially during the vehicle warranty period -if applicable. I have much less concern over exceeding GVW on the truck if GAWR is within spec.

Map Guy


----------



## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

map guy said:


> Could always look at the Wildcat like what we just got........
> 
> Wildcat 32QBBS
> 
> ...


Would expect PIN weight to be greater than 2000# at GVW. They show a pin weight of 17% at dry weight to claimed PIN weight. This seems a bit low but that is the trend in the industry. Reality is that claimed Pin weights are usually low just like tongue weights on TT's. Not much carrying capacity left for stuff like firewood, generators, pots and pans when you add the water and LPG weight considering taht FR does the same as most manufacturers -weight the unit without "options" that are a standard build items on every trailer.

Map Guy
[/quote]
I agree the pin weight probably is more than the listed weight of #1500, but it is a lot better than a listed weight of #2000.

It pulls and handles great too....... no bouncing or bottoming out on a 3/4 ton suspension, so it works for me. I don't feel the need for airbags or anything extra on the rear.

Steve


----------



## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

map guy said:


> Could always look at the Wildcat like what we just got........
> 
> Wildcat 32QBBS
> 
> ...


Would expect PIN weight to be greater than 2000# at GVW. They show a pin weight of 17% at dry weight to claimed PIN weight. This seems a bit low but that is the trend in the industry. Reality is that claimed Pin weights are usually low just like tongue weights on TT's. Not much carrying capacity left for stuff like firewood, generators, pots and pans when you add the water and LPG weight considering taht FR does the same as most manufacturers -weight the unit without "options" that are a standard build items on every trailer.

Map Guy
[/quote]
I agree the pin weight probably is more than the listed weight of #1500, but it is a lot better than a listed weight of #2000.

It pulls and handles great too....... no bouncing or bottoming out on a 3/4 ton suspension, so it works for me. I don't feel the need for airbags or anything extra on the rear. I have not had it on any scales as of yet.

This is from the Dodge towing guide website......

2006 dodge ram pickup 2500 2500 SLT, QUAD CAB, 4WD, 6.25 Ft Bed, 4-Speed Automatic Transmission, 5.9-Liter HO Cummins Turbo Diesel Engine:

With 3.73 Axle Ratio Axle Ratio _ You Can Tow 13000 lbs 
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)  = 8510 lbs
Payload  = 2138 lbs
Curb Weight  = 6862 lbs
Curb Weight Front/Rear = 4194 lbs/4194 lbs
GAWR Front/Rear  = 5200 lbs/6010 lbs
Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR)  = 20000 lbs

Steve_


----------



## map guy (Jan 11, 2007)

campmg said:


> Could always look at the Wildcat like what we just got........
> 
> Wildcat 32QBBS
> 
> ...


That's pretty nice.








[/quote]

I totally agree and forgot to put that in my previous post

Map Guy


----------



## bpedrotty (Nov 3, 2006)

You may look into a lightly used OB 28FBHS. The only thing missing would be the second slide for the queen bed. My DW and I have found we have plenty of room to navigate around the bed without the additional slide (we are also 5'6" and 5'0"). It falls within our GM's towing numbers and has room for the rug rat and her future sibling (when the time comes). Total length is 31'9". Only drawback is that the floor plan is discontinued. 06 were the last model year. My fallback plan was the Cougar if I couldn't have found this model.


----------



## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

huntr70 said:


> This is from the Dodge towing guide website......
> 
> Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) _ = 8510 lbs
> Payload  = 2138 lbs
> ...


_

Those numbers don't add up.







Curb + Payload should equal GVWR._


----------



## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

The Dodges GVWR is 9000 lbs. Chevy\GM is 9200 lbs and Ford 3/4 might even be 9600lbs or better. While that is all well and good stay at 1700lbs of pin or under if you don't want to exceed GVWR on a 3/4 Ton with 4WD and a diesel.

Up to you if you want to stay under GVWR but that is basically the deal 1700 or under. At 1700 lbs though the truck can only have passengers, no firewood, generator, etc. If you want a slide out in the front your looking at a Pin of about 2000 lbs and you will be over GVWR on a 3/4 ton. Essentially I looked at them all and you might as well take my word for it as well as the receipts from the CAT scale.

If you look at units like Steves with the bedroom in the back or a 2nd slide in the back then you end up getting maximum length with as little pin weight as possible.

A final point. GAWR likely won't be exceeded before GVWR. If you do it might be on the front end as you got that diesel, tranfer case and huge trans. You only have a few hundred pounds of wiggle room on the front end but the rear end you have several thousand pounds of GAWR. If you jump to a one ton you will also see the FAWR climb a few hundred pounds.


----------



## jdpm (Apr 12, 2007)

Interested in a fiver??? How about the Outback Sydneys. Love ours. You won't find a better bedroom design in a mid-profile fiver nor as large or larger basement/doors. Very thoughtful interiors, too. We looked at Cougar, Wildcat, and Laredo. Sydney had best floor plans by far. Good Luck. PCM


----------

