# 04' Nissan Titan Buyback Or Lemon



## Devildog (Sep 8, 2005)

*04' Nissan Titan, 12,500 miles, it is a Nissan buyback or possible lemon, would you purchase?*​
I would purchase the vehicle if I had record of the problem 213.33%I would under no circumstances purchase the vehicle!1386.67%


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## Devildog (Sep 8, 2005)

Quick rundown: I am looking at an 04' Nissan Titan that is fully loaded, and only has 12,500 miles on it. I get back after the test drive and tell the salesman I want to run a Carfax VIN check, which they do for me. He then begins to explain to me that he believes there was an oxygen sensor problem on this vehicle, and Nissan did a "buyback" on the vehicle, and is now placing it back on the market.

I have the Carfax report in front of me, and it states there was a manufacturer BUYBACK or LEMON reported. This is the first time I have seen or dealt with this, is it still worth pursuing the vehicle, it may still be under warranty, but I do not need or have time to deal with the hassle 6 months down the road???

Anyone familiar with manufacturer buybacks???


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Thats a tough one Barry









Speaking as both a satisfied Titan owner, and one who has been burned so bad by a couple of Nissan built 'lemons' in the past that I swore I'd never buy another, I would suggest great caution. How I ended up with a Titan inspite of my previous experiences with the brand has been explained at length here on the forum before, so I won't go into detail now. Suffice to say, it took a HUGE leap of faith on my part. So far, it has paid off.

All that being said, a couple of points you brought up stand out to me. First, Nissan would not buy the car back because of a faulty O2 sensor. That in itself is a cheap and easy fix. No manufacturer is going to buy back a vehicle if they can help it. Furthermore, under the lemon laws (Ghosty, correct me on this if I am wrong), an owner has to show a multitude of recurring problems in order for the car to be deemed a lemon. A couple of issues here and there, that can and have been resolved does not a lemon make.

On the other hand, if the vehicle was bought back by the manufacturer, and is now back on the market, I would hope that any and all issues have been dealt with. My gut feeling however, is that if the truck was bad enough to buy back, the manufacturer would not waste the time and money to get it back on the road. They would just scrap it and be done with it.

Notice that I underlined 'manufacturer' above. I did this because there is the possibility that the manufacturer did not buy back the vehicle, but that the dealer did. If this is the case, and in my experience with car dealers, they would have no qualms about detailing the car and putting it right back on the lot, ready for the next sucker to come along. I would also have to ask myself, what would cause a dealer to buy back a vehicle? It would have to be a situation that had more to it than just the mechanics of the truck. If that were the case, it would be Nissans issue.

On the other hand, this may be the rare honest and forthright dealer, and they bought back the truck because they knew it had problems, and Nissan wouldn't come clean. If that was the case however, I would expect them to readily provide you with all kinds of documentation that the trucks problems had been cured, being the honest dealer that they are.

No, I think I would run away from this one. Fast! There are a lot of good trucks out there (including Titan's), and this may be one of them, but I don't think I would take the chance.

Just remember the wise old sayings... 'Let the buyer beware' and 'You get what you pay for'.

Good luck in your hunt, and...

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Devildog (Sep 8, 2005)

Thanks Doug, I appreciate the quick response. By the way, have you had the brake problems on your 04' that I have read so much about in many of the Titan forums? I was going with an 04' to save some money, but I am also aware that it is the first year the Titan came out, so there are going to be issues that need to be resolved.

By the way, I will be running very fast! Still on the hunt for one in the South Carolina or Georgia area if anyone runs across one. Thanks!


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

Buybacks usually only occur when the car manufacturer KNOWS beyond a shadow of a doubt that you will win under the Lemon Law of your state.

Lemon Laws are made difficult to keep someone from simply driving the car for 6 months and changing their minds -- you have to demonstrate repeative probelms that both you and the dealer agree are there... and once that has ben established most car companies will buyback instead of you taking them to court --

BuyBacks are a way for the car manufacturer to make you feel "ggod" about the comapny and it is shown that over 75% of those that have been presented wiht a BuiyBack option has rebought under the same manufacturer while less then 20% of Lemon Law has...

Also the legal fees for an atorney under the Lemon Law is approx 8000 additonal to the cost of the Lemon Law buy out...

So -- would I buy a car that has ben previously bought back -- NO ... (unless its really a great deal and you can get the ENTIRE history of the car -- from birth to death as we say -- and they give you an extended warranty for free....


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Barry,

Yes, I have had the brake problems. Have had the truck in twice in the first 8 months for complete brake jobs (including turning the rotors).

The new brake upgarde kit is supposed to cure the problem once and for all, and from what I have heard on TitanTalk.com, it is working.

The rub is, Nissan will not allow the dealers to install the new kit under warranty, until they truck has had two previous brake services. The conventional wisdom is that Nissan made this stipulation as a means of buying themselves time to get all the needed kits in the dealers hands.

Some dealers are ignoring Nissan and doing the upgrade as soon as the customer comes in. Mine would not, and it is very frustrating to know the dealer has the kit in stock (they verified that they did), but will not put it on.

All that means, is that I am going to have to go through the whole thing again (loosing the truck for a day, renting a car, missed time at work, etc.). But, I guess it's good for the dealer. Brings that much more work into the shop.

Bottom line is, all of the '04 Titans, and I believe early '05's will have this problem
at some point. The good news is it can be fixed. The bad news is the B.S. you have to go through to get 'er done.

It is interesting to note that Nissan has not seen fit to make this an official recall. To their credit, they have extended the warranty significantly on brake systems, in order to make sure the owners dont get totally screwed.

Happy Hunting,
Doug


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## dougdogs (Jul 31, 2004)

This is exactly what I would do if I was in your position. I would record the VIN and go to a DIFFERENT Nissan dealer. Go in that other dealership and speak with the service manager. Let him run the VIN into his computer. Let him tell you what really happened with this truck. He will know the service code entries better than a salesman will. I know a lot about the car business, and there is no way in hell a truck will be bought back due to oxygen sensor problems.

I apologize in advance to any car salesmen on the board, but there is something to the saying that "the only time a salesmen isn't lying is when his mouth is closed"

It wouldn't hurt if you brought the some donuts or pastries to the manager for the "guys" the couple of dollars you spend might be well worth it for the info you get


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

> So -- would I buy a car that has ben previously bought back -- NO


I have to agree. I wouldn't think something like that would have been the reason for the buyback.

Just my two cents, though.

Mark


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

No.

I love the TITAN, and it's towing capability. The buyback thing scares me...especially on a new production run model as the 2004 model.

I have had some minor issues, (and did with my Tahoe too) but all was worked out. I have not had any brake rotor problems at 13,000 miles. (knocking on wood)


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. The buyback is because something couldn't be fixed. Even if we presume that issue was fixed... with what and how? That's what you'll never know, and there's too many bad options for my comfort level.


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## Devildog (Sep 8, 2005)

Well, I just received a fax from the dealer that is the warranty buyback notice. It was bought back because of the brake judder problem on the 2004 models, and as stated on the notice: "brake judder resolved by performing service procedures and installing countermeasure brake components as direct by NTB04-0062/ITB04-026d".

Any suggestions from reading this, this is the problem that I have seen listed multiple times about this model, which according to most that had the update done, have not had any more problems since. Thanks all!


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Barry,

I really find it hard to believe that Nissan would buy back a Titan because of the brake problem. If that is the case, I think I will go visit my dealer and get a buy back on mine, and get a 'free' upgrade to a 2006!









Then I will let everyone on TitanTalk know about it, and we can all have new trucks!









O.K. JollyMon... Last one to the dealer is a rotten egg!...

No, but seriously, there has GOT to be more to this than just the brakes. And whatever happened to the O2 sensor story? Sounds like maybe they sensed you were not buying that one, so they are tossing the hook back in the water with a different kind of bait!









All I can say at this time is, I wouldn't do it.

BTW, what model / trim level / options are we talking about here? And what are they asking for it?

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

In the immortal words of Monty Python "run away, run away!!!!"


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## Devildog (Sep 8, 2005)

PDX_Doug said:


> Barry,
> 
> I really find it hard to believe that Nissan would buy back a Titan because of the brake problem. If that is the case, I think I will go visit my dealer and get a buy back on mine, and get a 'free' upgrade to a 2006!
> 
> ...


Doug, don't worry, I told him what he could do with that truck! By the way, right now, I have a Red 2005 Titan LE Crewcab with leather, DVD, power everything, spray bedliner, rear sensors, etc. sitting in my driveway! I have said forget the used, I am just going to break down and buy a new one. It is not a 4x4, which I did not think I really need, but it does have the Big Tow package and everything else I need. I did not want you and Jolly keeping all the fun to yourselves! I am trying to get the price right now, I have them down to around $30,000 but that includes a rebate of around $2500. Can either of you think of anything else that I definitely should be looking for?


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Whoo Hoo Barry! You go Dog!









The price sounds pretty good. If it dosen't have it, the GPS Nav system is pretty cool. It's one of those things that seems like a toy, but you would be amazed how quickly you get spoiled by it. I have had them on my last three vehicles, and would not buy a car without one anymore.

But nav, or not, Congrats! Hope the deal comes through for you. sunny

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Devildog (Sep 8, 2005)

Doug I have the portable Garmin unit now, I will be adding that to it as well! I will be bickering on price Wednesday, not too crazy about the Red color, but it is a sharp vehicle. Test drove it today, put about 120 miles on it working. It seems to stay thirsty I can definitely say! Like I said, I am looking at the LE without 4x4, leather, DVD system, rear sensors, Big Tow, everything else stock for the LE. I am trying to work him down under $30K, MSRP here is around $35,000 to $36,000. We are at $30K now. Does that sound reasonable? I am going to try for a couple thousand more! Keep the fingers crossed...

Barry


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Want my advice?

NEVER negotiate from the MSRP. Start with the dealer invoice and work up, not down from the sticker. I've seen lots of people think they've made a great deal getting $2k off the MSRP but they're still $2 over what they should have paid.

Having said that, the amount you should expect to pay varies with the vehicle... or rather with the supply and demand equation I should say more accurately. You want a Z06 vette when the new one comes out and you'll pay sticker and maybe some more on top.

But generally speaking, if you get within about $500 of the invoice price you've done pretty good. $200 over invoice is considered a really good deal. So, for a car that's not particularly "hot" right now, I start by walking in and offering $200 over invoice. Some dealerships will laugh at you - that's the sign you don't want to deal with them. (Again, assuming that's a reasonable offer and it's not a hot model.) Some dealerships will take it as a sign you're not going to be taken to the cleaners (but are probably an easy sell) and make a deal pretty quickly.

There are places on the web where you can get dealer invoice pricing.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

I should just add what I'm basing this on...

long story short - In 1994 I had the opportunity to buy a new Z28 Camaro for $200 over invoice through a friend, but that was to order it and I wanted one off the lot. I went to probably 8 Pontiac and Chevy dealerships. Three or four of them took the deal instantly but didn't have what I wanted on the lot either and wanted to write an order. Got laughed out of a couple of them as well.

I also found from another experience that on used vehicles in the $15k range the asking price varied by as much as $1.5k for the identical vehicle depending on whether I was in an affluent suburb or a more blue-collar one.

It's critical to check with more than one dealership if you can for these reasons.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Barry,

I did some checking on carsdirect.com for prices. Sisnce you list the DVD system, I am assuming you must be looking at the crew cab.

On carsdirect, a 2005 LE 2x4 Crew w/ Big Tow, Leather, heated seats and DVD
lists the following:
MSRP = $34,870
Invoice = $31,517
Cars Direct price = $29,517

Options I do not know if you have or not:
Sun roof = Add $780 to Cars Direct price
Side airbags = Add $1,041 to Cars Direct price
Sirius or XM radio = Add $347 to Cars Direct price

So, it looks like $30,000 is right in the ballpark.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Devildog (Sep 8, 2005)

Thanks Dan and Doug, I really appreciate all the help on this. I got them down pretty decent tonight, but I held them off and told them I am going to think about it. There is a $2250 rebate from Nissan right now on the 05' as well, which was worked into that $30,500 price.

On the other hand, I can get an 05' Ford F150 Lariat 4x4 with the 5.4L Triton, 3.73 rear, crew cab, leather, sliding window, short bed, with tow package for around $30,000 right now as well, MSRP is around $40,000 on it, they have tons of rebates and family plans right now until the end of the month. I think it is a smoother ride than the Titan, but it does not have the same power. The dealership is also giving 10 year/150,000 mile warranty with it(not bumper to bumper, but engine, trans, etc.), and 2 free sets of tires over the life of the vehicle if I have it serviced at their dealership.

BIG question now is, what should I do!!! I am tired of looking at them, it is narrowed down to these 2!!!


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Well Barry,

At the risk of being branded a Ford basher... AGAIN!







,

From a towing perspective, I have to recommend the Titan.
That Ford is a beautiful truck. Great everyday driver.
But the next time a hurricane is headed your way, and you are looking to get your Outback out of town in a hurry, You are gonna wish you had the Titan









As far as the free spare tire thing is concerned, I would want to know exactly what tires they are talking about. There is nothing saying what they are going to give you is any good. Especially when you consider your towing needs. And I seriously doubt they would 'give' you 'D' rated rubber.

Now there is only one thing left to do...

*Git er done!*









Happy Trails,
Doug

Disclaimer: Author can not gurantee total impartiality. Every effort has been made to provide honest opinion, however your circumstances may very from that of the Author. Author's liability will be limited to refund of all charges and fees collected for said opinions to date.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

I'd have to agree with Doug, and I'm most definitely not a domestic basher. You're buying a TOW vehicle, after all. If you can find the Ford with different engine & gears and you like it better than go for it, but I wouldn't compromise towing for a bit of comfort.


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## 1stTimeAround (Sep 22, 2004)

Just get it over with and buy a 3/4 ton diesel! JMHO!!

Good luck with the negotiations! What I have done with my last couple of vehicles is get a copy of the window sticker and go to Kelly Blue book and/or Edmunds and do an item for item pricing. I use the 'INVOICE" price and get what the actual listed invoice price is. That price will not take into consideration any factory to dealer incentives, etc., but it gives you a good idea of the value of the vehicle.

I have had good luck with this practice on the last two vehicles I purchased.

Jason


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## dougdogs (Jul 31, 2004)

Devildog said:


> BIG question now is, what should I do!!! I am tired of looking at them, it is narrowed down to these 2!!!
> [snapback]55561[/snapback]​


I don't want to Ford bash either, but try to do some research on resale value.

I owned a 2004 F150 FX4 nicely loaded. When I found out I really needed a diesel to tow my 5th, I was surprised at how little my Ford was worth. Again, I not telling you not to buy the Ford, and I haven't followed the resale value of the Titan, I'm just saying it is something you should educate yourself on before making your final decision.

Doug


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

Just buy them both!

PS...the NISSAN TITAN was designed, and built in the USA by Americans.


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## Stacey (Apr 25, 2004)

My two cents on purchasing a vehicle. Don't haggle, you'll only wind up paying more regardless of whether you're negotiating up from invoice or down from sticker. This is my approach:

Do all of your research up-front then decide what you're willing to pay. Go to the dealer, make the offer and if he says no then walk. There are plenty of dealers and they readily exchange inventory so you can get the one with the options you like at dealer A, but buy it from dealer B at the price you want. In my case, I decided that I wanted a Titan and that I would pay $150 over invoice. With the rebate, that put the final price $2,100 below invoice. It took me three dealers, but I got the price I wanted and I didn't have to haggle (by the way, both dealers that I walked out on subsequently called me back).

One last thing, never EVER allow a dealer to negotiate based on monthly payment. If you do, you're bound to get screwed!

Signed, Stacey's husband.


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

Maybe I should have made it more clear that's what I did on the TA purchase. I already knew exactly what I wanted to pay as I had a deal in by back pocket. That's always the best approach, and around $200 over invoice is a good place to be.

But part of the equation is you can't always dictate what the market is requiring for a given car. A car in high demand will go for sticker and then some.

No dealer's going to take $200 over invoice if he can't get stock from the manufacturer and he knews there'll be three guys right behind you willing to pay $1,000 more. Try that on a Z06 corvette or Lotus Elise and see what happens.









Don't know if the Nissan falls in that category but I'm sure the Ford doesn't. Especially with the truck/suv market cooling off these days I'd say it's likely a buyers market regardless of the brand.


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

NDJollyMon said:


> Just buy them both!
> 
> PS...the NISSAN TITAN was designed, and built in the USA by Americans.
> [snapback]55645[/snapback]​


NDJollyMon

Just out of interest, which state is the truck assembled in, and do you know where is the design center is?

Thor


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## Not Yet (Dec 13, 2004)

Thor said:


> NDJollyMon said:
> 
> 
> > Just buy them both!
> ...


Thor,

The engine is built in Tenn. The final plant is in Miss. The design was done in Cali.

Jared


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

Jared is correct.

NISSAN even built their own plant to put in there own spray-in bedliners.

Many people still look at them as FOREIGN vehicles...but today...it's just not entirely true.


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