# Dump Valve Leak!



## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

We just got back from a week-long camping trip to West Virginia and I noticed that after I finished dumping, I had some water dripping from around the top of the dump pipe where it goes up into the enclosed belly. I took out three screws holding up the belly pan on the opposite side of the trailer and got a flashlight so I could see up in there. The water is coming from somewhere around the dump valves and pooling in the belly pan, but since everything is encased in spray foam and under the plastic belly, I can't see exactly where it's leaking without ripping everything down around the dump valves. The only reason that I'm worried about doing that is because it's a new trailer (2010) and it's still under warranty. I know that it only leaks when I'm dumping, not when we're using the trailer, so it has to be either in a dump valve or in the upper section of pipe after the dump valves but up under the belly pan.

Like I said, my trailer is still under warranty. However, I bought it at Lakeshore in Michigan but I live in NY. So, I called the closest dealer, Garrick RV in NJ, this morning. The guy there in the service department asked me if I bought my camper there. When I said no, he was pretty rude with me. He told me that they've got over 19,000 of their own customers and he might be able to squeeze me in around September or October but to forget about it for this summer. I think that's BS for warranty work. I'm sure if I bought my trailer there, he would have got me right in. I then called the next closest dealer according to the Outback website, Crowley RV in Connecticut. They told me that they're no longer Outback dealers, so they can't help me either. There's one other dealer that comes up on the Outback website, but it's all the way out at the end of Long Island, and I really don't want to tow my trailer through New York City traffic to get out there.

We would like to do some more camping this summer, but I don't want to be leaking black water into the belly pan every time I dump. I think I'm going to call Keystone directly and see what they say. Does anyone have any suggestions or know of a dealer that's near me? I'm in the military stationed at West Point, NY, about 50 miles north of NYC.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Almost ANY Keystone dealer can be authorized to do warranty work. Not just Outback dealers. Call Keystone or Lakeshore and ask them to locate a near by Keystone dealer that will work with you.


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

CamperAndy said:


> Almost ANY Keystone dealer can be authorized to do warranty work. Not just Outback dealers. Call Keystone or Lakeshore and ask them to locate a near by Keystone dealer that will work with you.


Thanks. I did just that. Amy at Keystone was very helpful. She called Garrick and told me that they also gave her the runaround in the service department and weren't much help. Hitch RV in Southern NJ gave me a call back immediately and asked when I could bring my unit in, and Amy also contacted Sunbird RV/Camping World in Lakeshore NJ. Both of these dealerships seem much more friendly and helpful than Garrick. Hitch RV is a 6-hour round trip for me, so I'm going to try to set up an appointment with Camping World (a 4.5 hour round trip) ASAP as soon as I get a call back from them.

JD


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Glad to hear that Keystone was helpful and you now know of a dealer to use. It's a shame it's such a long drive, but think of it this way. I highly doubt that first dealer is that friendly to their own customers if they treat you, and keystone so rudely. You're better off with the other options.


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

There's been a couple of other threads on the forum about cracks in the joint between the gatevalve and the tank. I had that problem as well. It only leaked when the tank got heavy enough to allow liquid to seep out.
I fixed it myself, after emptying the tank, cleaning the area around the crack with alcohol ( I could see it when I pulled down slightly on the drain pipe), then using JB Weld to put a bead on the crack.

I know your unit is under warranty, but you might be able to save a couple of long trips to the nearest service center.

Good luck, Glenn


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

I dropped off my trailer at Sunbird RV/Camping World in Lakewood, NJ yesterday. They were very friendly. We'll see how long it takes them to assess and fix the problem. I'll keep you updated.


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

OK. I had a message on my phone from Sunbird RV when I got home. They said my Outback is ready for pickup, but that the problem wasn't a warranty problem and I owe them $127! They also said my tank was 3/4 full and they were giving me a break by not charging $100 to dump it. That's all the message said and they're already gone for the day so I'll have to wait until tomorrow for clarification. What? There's no way! I dumped the tanks before we left our last campsite, so 3/4 full is impossible. I think the black tank needed to be flushed and had a faulty reading on the panel inside so maybe that's what they were talking about? Secondly, how can a leak from the dump valves into the underbelly not be covered? I guess I'll have to wait and see...


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Interesting because if you drop something off that you assume is a warranty issue, as soon as they are aware it is not and a charge will occur, they owed you a phone call.


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

tdvffjohn said:


> Interesting because if you drop something off that you assume is a warranty issue, as soon as they are aware it is not and a charge will occur, they owed you a phone call.


My thoughts exactly. I'll talk to them in the morning and see what the deal is.


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

OK. I talked to Valerie at Sunbird. She said they pulled down the underbelly and filled up all the tanks with water and didn't see any leaks. I told her that isn't the problem - it only leaks when dumping - that's what I explicitly told her when I went there to have it looked at. So she said, "Well, they had to dump it after they filled it and they didn't see any leaks then either, so there's nothing wrong. Therefore, it's not a warranty issue and you owe us $127.33 for labor."

She said that the only thing that it could be is that when you drive with a full tank, some of it can come out the top since "_the top of the tank is open where you can't see it_." What??? Can anyone fill me in on this? I've never seen the top of a black or gray tank, but I find that a little hard to believe. How can you fill up the black tank into the toilet or the gray tank up into the floor of the shower and water doesn't come pouring out of the tank if the top of it is open? Not only that, but wouldn't sewer gasses get out of the tank and into your unit that way? She said "No, it only happens when you drive, so it probably splashed out and then slowly seeped down while you were dumping the tanks and you thought it was a leak." I'm sorry, but if black water comes out of the tank when I'm driving, sitting still or any other time, that's still a leak as far as I'm concerned! So I asked her why it leaked when I was at a full hookup site and I didn't drive the unit for 5 days before I dumped it. She didn't have an answer, but she said that it will be on record so that if it does it again, I can come back and claim that it is a recurring problem. "OK, so I'll be reimbursed the money that I have to pay for labor from this time if I have to come back, right?" "No," she said, "That's not the way it works."

So the bottom line is that I towed my unit through New York City traffic 2.5 hours all the way down to NJ to be told that there's nothing wrong and I have to pay them for the diagnosis and then tow it back. I truly hope that there isn't a leak and that I'm missing something, but I checked and everything was dry and then I watched water coming out of the foam around the dump valves and dripping down into the underbelly the last time I dumped the tanks. I have no clue where this mystery water came from, but I have a feeling that the people at Sunbird are clueless - or more likely the service guys didn't read the statement or weren't told that it only leaks when dumping and they just checked for a leak when the tanks were full. The way Valerie explained it, I think that's what happened, but I don't want to make them redo it or I'll owe them another bunch of money. I guess I'll have to pay them the money and then go fix it myself. What a crock.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Geez, well on the stupid side of the bright side, they did not charge you 100 bucks to dump a tank that they filled







Good thing they didn t fill it several times to recheck for a leak


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

tdvffjohn said:


> Geez, well on the stupid side of the bright side, they did not charge you 100 bucks to dump a tank that they filled
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No joke!


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Uhhhh a hole in the top of the tank?!?!

No, there's a vent pipe in the top that leads to the roof. That better be connected to the tank or else it will slosh out the top. I think you need to talk to someone at that dealership who knows what they are talking about.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Doesn t sound like that person exists there


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

OK. Just an update. I drove all the way back down to Sunbird RV in NJ today. Valerie was busy so I talked to another guy in the service department and explained the situation. I told him that there is absolutely a leak when I dump the tanks and I am not going to pay for their inability to find it. I suggested that we fill the tanks and dump them and if there isn't a leak, then I would shut up, pay the money and leave, but if there was, they would fix it under warranty as I originally asked.

To make a long story short, we filled and dumped the tanks and low and behold, there was a leak - right where I told them it was last week! So they kept the trailer and said they are going to fix it this time. Unfortunately, the tech who worked on it had called out sick for today, so I didn't get to talk to him. He must be a real winner. Too bad I had to make another 5 hour round trip to show them how to do their job...

At least they agreed to wash my trailer since I will have had to make three trips down and back there to get this done for a grand total of 15 hours of driving. How nice of them. After this is finished, I will never do business with the Sunbird RV service center in Lakeshore New Jersey ever again.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

A free wash for 6 fill ups. Its something but very little. At least , hopefully, they will fix it correctly


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

I am very sorry to here of your troubles.

It's posts like these that make me very happy I purchased from Ehlers RV. 
There service has been nothing but Top Notch.

Good service dealers are out there , the key is to find them , and once found... hang onto them and share the information via this forum.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Make sure they close the windows bewfore they wash it!!


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

Makes you wish you would of tried the JB Weld huh? I always say if you want something done right - do it yourself.

Regards, Glenn


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

GlenninTexas said:


> Makes you wish you would of tried the JB Weld huh? I always say if you want something done right - do it yourself.
> 
> Regards, Glenn


At this point, it would have been a lot easier and cost less to do it myself for sure, but it's a new trailer and still under warranty, so I figured it would be better have them handle it. Hindsight is 20/20. Oh well... I just wonder how long it will be before they fix it. I'll keep you all updated.


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## fshr4life (Feb 7, 2009)

I got a call from Sunbird RV this morning. They say that the leak is on the _top_ of the black tank, not in the dump valves. Since I use a 'sewer solution' system to dump my tanks, it allows me to spray water back up into them to flush them after I'm done dumping. Apparently when I spray water back up into the tank, it comes out of the leak in the top and then runs down onto the dump valves, so that's why it looked like the dump valves were leaking. _I guess Valerie wasn't all that far off after all!_ If that is the case, then there is no way I could have fixed it myself since you can't even get to the leak from underneath.

They are going to have to cut the tank down from where it is connected in order to fully assess and pinpoint the leak. Once they cut it down, they can't reinstall the tank, but Keystone has asked them to pinpoint the leak and take pictures for them. They are going to have to order and reinstall a new tank. So I guess I'm not going camping for a few weeks. At least it's still under warranty.


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