# Keystone Main Office - Goshen, In



## Mark W (Aug 23, 2009)

Hello to All!

My wife and I recently purchased an Outback 250RS and as I've read a lot on this forum about how helpful it is to change the manufacturer-supplied lightbulbs over to LED lights, I want to get a list of what model / type / part number style of lightbulbs we have on our TT.

Upon calling Keystone, the parts department told me that they do not have this type of information. I asked how would they know what parts to provide to dealers who order from Keystone and she then said that they DO provide this type of information to dealers, but not directly to customers.

I inquired further, explaining I wanted to update my lightbulbs and that there has to be SOME way they can let me know what I have on my trailer! She then grudgingly gave me what she said were the only three style of lightbulb models on my TT.

My questions for the group are:

* Why the secrecy about handing out a full, detailed parts manual? You would think that Keystone would want me to know what my trailer is all about!

* Can anyone provide me with a list of what LED lights would replace what manufacturer lights on the 250RS?

* Does anyone have a line on how I could acquire a parts (not owner's) manual for our 250RS?

Thank you all very much!

--Mark Wagner


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## W.E.BGood (Jan 15, 2011)

Good day, Mark, and congrats on your new purchase.

To address your first question regarding the "parts manual", I'm not sure what you're looking for, and I don't know as that there is a "comprehensive" parts list as many parts are provided by sub-contractors and in some cases the manufacturer might want to keep that as proprietary information. If you bought the trailer new you should have received a whole raft of manuals and paperwork on many of the individual components (fridge, micro, furnace, stove, water heater, various detectors, even the axles, etc.).

Regarding LED's, there should be a number of threads on this site and others (RV.net for example) with extensive discussions on the subject, what's worked, what doesn't...try using the "advanced search" feature, you'll have better luck. Are you looking to replace individual bulbs or whole lighting fixtures/units?
I've replaced nearly all of the bulbs in my 250RS with LEDs purchased from various sources and at a wide variety of prices and "color" ranges, mostly through trial and error but with a lot of help from others on this and other sites. If you'd like more info on my experiences let me know and I'll see what info I can retrieve.
Regards, BGood


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## Mark W (Aug 23, 2009)

Thanks, BGood! You make good points about the no-parts catalog being available...I was just looking for the parts, pieces and components that go to make up the 250RS--not so much the appliances or sub-contracted parts, just what comes built out of Goshen, IN.

However, that said, yes please! to your kind offer of providing any additional information you may have on hand. I have read lots of the threads on here as well re: the lights, but it seems the more I read and learn, the more I know I don't know!

I have so much to try and understand--I hope it doesn't become too overwhelming and a bit discouraging to not know and understand all these various aspects of how to better organize my TT.

Thanks again!


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## W.E.BGood (Jan 15, 2011)

A quick response here...I recently watched a PBS piece on the Amish and it showed where some Amish men had taken to working in a travel trailer assembly facility, I'm pretty sure it was Indiana. It was just incredible to watch how FAST they worked laying-down and gluing panels, stretching roof fabrics, pulling wire looms through, screwing and nailing framing pieces together, literally ZIP, ZIP, ZIP! My impression was that there's no "craftsmanship" or attention to detail to the process, but an unbelieveably rote, fast, beautifully choreographed product assembly driven to minimize time investment and maximize cost containment.

Beyond that, all I saw were pre-measured/cut wood framing pieces, wiring looms, fiberglas panels, bats of insulation, metal channels, pre-formed metal brackets, and tons of screws and glue tubes.

Regards, BGood


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

W.E.BGood said:


> A quick response here...I recently watched a PBS piece on the Amish and it showed where some Amish men had taken to working in a travel trailer assembly facility, I'm pretty sure it was Indiana. It was just incredible to watch how FAST they worked laying-down and gluing panels, stretching roof fabrics, pulling wire looms through, screwing and nailing framing pieces together, literally ZIP, ZIP, ZIP! My impression was that there's no "craftsmanship" or attention to detail to the process, but an unbelieveably rote, fast, beautifully choreographed product assembly driven to minimize time investment and maximize cost containment.
> 
> Beyond that, all I saw were pre-measured/cut wood framing pieces, wiring looms, fiberglas panels, bats of insulation, metal channels, pre-formed metal brackets, and tons of screws and glue tubes.
> 
> Regards, BGood


Was one of those guys wearing a red shirt and white hat?


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## W.E.BGood (Jan 15, 2011)

Wow Insomniak! Can't says I remember THAT detail. A relative to you? Or maybe youin'self?


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## W.E.BGood (Jan 15, 2011)

Insomniak...just watched the clip from "The Amish", chapter 8 'Working Outside the Farm':

The Amish on PBS

Pull the time-slider to the right to the light-green line at the start of chapter 8. Only red shirt was on a young boy about 17, dark brown hair, no hat, near the end of the trailer factory video portion.

As an aside, the whole feature is very well done, interesting and enlightening, I thought.

Regards, BGood


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

W.E.BGood said:


> Wow Insomniak! Can't says I remember THAT detail. A relative to you? Or maybe youin'self?


The chap with the red shirt and white hat would be our very own, lovable Gilligan...


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## W.E.BGood (Jan 15, 2011)

Insomniak said:


> Wow Insomniak! Can't says I remember THAT detail. A relative to you? Or maybe youin'self?


The chap with the red shirt and white hat would be our very own, lovable Gilligan...
[/quote]


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## W.E.BGood (Jan 15, 2011)

"However, that said, yes please! to your kind offer of providing any additional information you may have on hand. I have read lots of the threads on here as well re: the lights, but it seems the more I read and learn, the more I know I don't know!"

Mark w...sent you a PM yesterday.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

to the question from the OP

I dont think its secrecy -it is simply ever evolving and many different brands/types can or may be used...........with in each 1/2 a model year.........
I had asked for a wiring diagram.....

It is my understanding there is an overview type plan - but an extensive amount of Hand labor which allows much discretion in locations and application.......

Also parts, i am sure are being bought as commodity items - and based on price and availibility may change...many are very generic and are all rated the same and accomplish the same.... so they are interchangeable from the manufacturers perspective....

If you couple these things with the changing floor plans and standard and optional equipment you can see why an automated assembly line is not feasible........ there are often changes mid year......... with the hand labor and "micro cell" manufacturing environment they can be very flexible and adaptable to change...

AT least this is my understanding.........


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## outbackmac (Feb 1, 2005)

When i did the facory tour a few years ago we were told majority of labor was by the amish.


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## k5dla (Mar 11, 2011)

I purchased a 2012 230RS and all of my interior bulbs are 921 incandescent wedge types. I think there are 26 or 28 total. I've replaced 8 with LED bulbs so far and may change out 6 0r 8 more. I'm not going to do them all because I either don't use the overhead light or I'm only putting one bulb in a two socket fixture. One disappointing thing about the lights is that they've cheapened them up by using an on-off switch for both bulbs in the fixtures instead of a 3 way switch for off, one bulb or two bulbs. I haven't checked the porch lights but I plan to replace them with LEDs.


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## W.E.BGood (Jan 15, 2011)

k5dla said:


> I purchased a 2012 230RS and all of my interior bulbs are 921 incandescent wedge types. I think there are 26 or 28 total. I've replaced 8 with LED bulbs so far and may change out 6 0r 8 more. I'm not going to do them all because I either don't use the overhead light or I'm only putting one bulb in a two socket fixture. One disappointing thing about the lights is that they've cheapened them up by using an on-off switch for both bulbs in the fixtures instead of a 3 way switch for off, one bulb or two bulbs. I haven't checked the porch lights but I plan to replace them with LEDs.


K5dla...all the lights including the double bulb units in my '11 250RS have a single switch, but the row of ceiling lights down the middle can be controlled from a single switch by the front door entry.
Also, I was going to do what you've done and just replace one bulb in each unit, but I couldn't stand it and did 'em all...like it much better.


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

I ran into this with both our Outback and Raptor, not sure why Keystone really plays this came but mostly I think because they go with whatever part is cheapest and don't really have a clue what they install on each rig. I will say I was pleasantly surprised when we bought our Winnebago and found the manual was about 1.5" thick and covered EVERYTHING. I also liked that I could download complete wiring/plumbing diagrams online. So lesson is that what Keystone isn't standard, just standard for them.


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