# Operation "boondock"



## Scrib (Jun 28, 2005)

We've got a few more "getting to know you" trips in the 26RS, and then we're planning to hit some State Parks this summer, where we will probably boondock for a couple of nights. I realize that boondocking for a couple of nights probably isn't that big of a deal, but I'd like to have the ability to go for 5 days. How does this sound....

1. Add another Group 24 deep cycle - go 6V after these die in a couple years.
2. Xantrex 1200W inverter - it's not fancy (or expensive) and I've already got a 3-stage charger on my converter.
3. MaxxFan over the kitchen - it's a central location, so it would pull air from both ends.
4. Replace lights in major living areas with 12V flourescents (Thinlight) - looks to be about 5 fixtures. Leave the others as-is, or maybe go halogen.
5. Kipor/Honda/Yamaha generator with a propane conversion kit. I'm thinking about splurging on the Yamaha, just because it can run the AC. It's a tough choice though, because there's a big difference between $600 (Kipor) and $1200 (Yamaha) - and we probably don't need the AC, just open some windows and run the MaxxFan.

Any thoughts?


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## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

All sounds good except for making the holding tanks bigger. 5 days with a family of 5 (and without hookups), even with the bigger tanks in the 06 models, you wont be able to take showers and you'll need to conserve and watch the grey tank level.

Randy


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

Scrib,

We dry camp most of the time we go out and you should be able to make 5 days without too much trouble. I would go ahead and just go with the 6Volt batteries now. You can pick up one for the cost of a Group 24 12volt so why not just get them now and then keep your current battery as a spare or use it in one of your vehicles. If it's the one that the dealer gave you it's probably not a true deep cycle anyways. I have the Honda Eu2000 generator and it works great but it won't run the AC. The Yamaha 2400 may be better if you need the AC. I'm not sure what benefit you would gain with running either generator on propane though







. If you've got some good dual 6Volts and a generator to charge from occasionally you'll have no trouble going 5 days. With that setup you can save some money and skip the flourescents. You might also want to consider a small solar panel to keep the batteries charged. I've got an 80watt panel and I've gone for 7 days with no problems.

I don't have an inverter or the MaxxFan, yet







, so those might drive up your battery usage. But that's probably an even better reason to go with the 6Volts now. If you're using the inverter and fan alot at night you'll wear out those Group 24 12Volts in no time. A Group 24 is a fairly small 12Volt battery and heavy usage and deep discharges will greatly reduce their life.

Sound like you have a good plan but I would go straight to 6Volt batteries and skip the lighting mod for now.


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## Scrib (Jun 28, 2005)

Right - we filled the gray tank in 2 days, last time out







We've got a little learning to do, yet.

The propane conversion is attractive to me because I could pack the generator in the back of the TV - no gas fumes to worry about. And with the quick-connect for the outside stove, it's easy to tap into the supply.


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

The gray tank can be dealt with in a variety of ways. There was a discussion of this topic a few weeks back. I think the easiest way it to get a 10 - 20 gal portable tank to take to the dump station.


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## Lady Di (Oct 28, 2005)

We have Boondocked (dry camped for a number of years in a popup. We used a tote tank for the grey water. It is an easy way to dump waste water. We will continue using it in the Outback.


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## 7heaven (Jun 4, 2005)

If you are washing dishes in your sink, use small wash tubs instead for that chore and water a nearby tree or something. If that is prohibited, you can dump the basin at the restroom or pit toilet. That helped a bunch on extending our gray water tank.


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

We do alot of dry camping. We decided to go with a couple of Maxx Air Vents. They work very well and keep good air flow thru the trailer without using battery.

Generator - propane conversion kit. I have never heard of this? Can you explain. Do you buy the generator and purchase a kit?

Thor


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## Scrib (Jun 28, 2005)

You can go either way - this company sells kits for the Hondas (among others)
http://propanecarbs.com/ and these guys sell turn-key Yamahas:
http://www.yamaha-propane-natural-gas-gene...om/ef2400is.htm
and also sell kits; http://www.propane-generators.com/eu2000i_kits.htm


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

thanks for the link to the propane conversion. I just sent them an email for more info.


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## CJ999 (Aug 11, 2005)

Scrib said:


> Right - we filled the gray tank in 2 days, last time out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I make the grey tank last a lot longer when boondocking by washing kids with the outside shower. They are usually too dirty to allow inside the trailer at the end of the day anyway! We are planning to get a tote too though... And I have considered replacing the grey and fresh tanks with larger ones but I haven't looked at it seriously yet.

Somebody pointed out in another thread that the stove port is low pressure, so it may not work seamlessly for a generator... I use a Kipor 3500ti on gasoline and I really like it. My wife usually blow dries her hair and I start it when that starts, and let it charge my two twelve volts for a while after she is done. I can make it through five days with the onboard gas tank and one 5 gallon can EASILY, with or without the A/C.


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

For item #4 we simply pull out one of the two bulbs in each fixture. The whole process takes me 5 minutes, and cuts the light power usage in half.


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## SoCalOutback (Dec 18, 2005)

Scrib said:


> 5. Kipor/Honda/Yamaha generator with a propane conversion kit. I'm thinking about splurging on the Yamaha, just because it can run the AC. It's a tough choice though, because there's a big difference between $600 (Kipor) and $1200 (Yamaha) - and we probably don't need the AC, just open some windows and run the MaxxFan.
> [snapback]95239[/snapback]​


Make sure you do your research on the propane conversion of the generator. In most cases running on propane the generator will not be able to put out it's max wattage.

Solar is another great option. I have two 64 watt panels and a good charge controller that allows me not to worry about power usage. We run the lights at night, watch DVDs on an LCD tv running of a 300 watt inverter, run the bathroom and kitchen fan when needed, and run the heater at night and don't worry about power consumption.

check this thread for more info on solar:

Solar Panles, Yes or no?


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## firemedicinstr (Apr 6, 2005)

I bought one of the propane mod kits from US Carb back in 2003 and love the fact the generator does not smell of gas when I store it inside the trailer. IF you go the route and mod your existing generator DO NOT plug into your generator just after your mod, run it a while and then do some readings on the electrical output. Mine would have blown the world if I had plugged anything in ias t was putting out 190 volts, It took a little while to dial it in to 120 and now I constantly monitor with one of those pulg in volt meters.

When I dry camp just unhook one bottle and run the hose to ther generator.

I too would love one of the Yamaha units but I am going to run what I have till it drops and then cross that bridge.

take care,


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## kmcfetters (May 7, 2005)

When everyone goes to bed---sneak outside and pull the grey water valve---it's just soap---what's the big deal


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Scrib,

Looks like a pretty good list, but I question the lighting and fan. In the context of boondocking, reducing power consumption is the goal, and I am not sure the lights you have suggested will do that - especially the halogen (or very much). Adding a fan that wasn't there before will add power draw. I would try opening the windows!

I do like the propane conversion option on the genset. I work with a guy that has a propane fueled Onan in his slide-in camper, and the thought of not having to carry gasoline, and instead using a fuel you already have anyway is very appealing. He seems very pleased with the unit.









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Scooter (May 9, 2005)

Check your state parks , Vermont does not allow generators of any kind. We invested in Trojan T125 6V's and were able to make it 5 days with 1/4 power left on our return. We used all 12volt systems moderately.


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## Scrib (Jun 28, 2005)

I'm kicking this off after the 4th - lots of changes from my original plan after getting some camp-time under our belts. The generator's out for now - we have only used the AC on one trip, and several of us were sick so we spent more time inside than we would normally do anyway. I'm having the dealer (Alpine Recreation - Morgan Hill, CA) do all of this, since I'm not too confortable with electrical work.

*2ea. 6V batteries*
I might drop one of the LP tanks to compensate for the weight, as we don't use much.

*1750W Inverter*
This modified-sine model (Xantrex XPower) is about $700 cheaper than a pure-sine model, or a modified-sine w/ charger. It probably won't run the microwave at full power, because of the modified wave-form, but it gets good reviews for running small appliances (i.e. DW's hair dryer) and TV's. I don't need a model with a charger, since the Outback's Converter already has a good 3-stage charger. I am going to have them look into the ground situation (tie the Converter to the batteries instead of the frame).

*130W Solar System*
I was going to do this at a later date to reduce the sticker-shock, but since it's going to be in the shop anyway...







This will provide me with a much-needed power-monitor, so that's another good reason to splurge.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Sounds like a good ($$$) list of mods for the boondocker, Scrib.









I will be interested to hear how the 6V's stand up to that inverter. They will do better than the 12V's, so...

Also, if you have any more specific info on the solar conversion, that would be great. 130W is pretty good size, is it not?

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

PDX_Doug said:


> Sounds like a good ($$$) list of mods for the boondocker, Scrib.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just to clarify a bit about the 6v batteries versus the 12v setup. You MUST have two 6v batteries and connect them in series to produce 12 volts - you can't just use one and keep the other one as a spare. As far as doing better than their 12 volt counterparts, both batteries should stand up quite well to the inverter. The major difference would be in the number of amp-hours between the two.

If you have two common 6v batteries rated at 220 amp-hours each and connect them in series, you end up with 12 volts and 220 amp-hour capacity.

If you connect two group 24 12v batteries in parallel, you end up with 12 volts and around 170 amp-hours. Two group 27 batteries in parallel will give 12 volts and around 230 amp-hours - slightly better capacity than the 6v combo.

One good thing about using 6v "golf cart" batteries is they're true deep cycle batteries where many 12v batteries can be hybrids and may not live as long as their 6v cousins.

Sorry if this has been covered here before, but I was just poking around looking to see what inverter mods people have done!


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## Scrib (Jun 28, 2005)

Minor change...

The tech talked me into an Inverter/Charger instead of using the WFCO Converter's charger. I was under the impression that our WFCO's threw alot of amps at the charging circuit, but he told me it only charged at around 7 amps and could take days to recharge the 220 amp bank. That bumps the price of the Inverter up substantially, so I'm dropping the solar for now, and going with a generator. The more I investigate solar, the more I think I can do it myself, anyway.

The installation is on the 20th - I'll upload pics and run some tests with the microwave and TV that weekend.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Keep us posted, Roy.








What kind of generator are you going with?

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## SoCalOutback (Dec 18, 2005)

Scrib said:


> Minor change...
> 
> The tech talked me into an Inverter/Charger instead of using the WFCO Converter's charger. I was under the impression that our WFCO's threw alot of amps at the charging circuit, but he told me it only charged at around 7 amps and could take days to recharge the 220 amp bank. That bumps the price of the Inverter up substantially, so I'm dropping the solar for now, and going with a generator. The more I investigate solar, the more I think I can do it myself, anyway.
> 
> ...


I'll have to measure the output of my WFCO. I've been told it does 50 amps max and goes down to 1.5 amps as the battery becomes fully charged.

I have 128 watts of solar panels and did the install myself. I did not install the panels on the roof so it reduced the amount of complexity.


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## Scrib (Jun 28, 2005)

Right - I'm planning on a "mobile" solar setup too, and just locate the charge controller on the frame, under the LP cover.

Doug - I ordered a Kipor 3000ti on Sunday. It will fit in the pass-through if I find a new home for the Weber.


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

Only 7 amps from the WFCO doesn't sound right, although I don't even have mine yet! If it's a 55 amp converter it should be able to provide a whole lot more.

On our current (old) TT, I put in a Progressive Dynamics 9245 converter with the built-in charge wizard. It has a remote "pendant" with an led and button that allows you to change the mode of the charger. The led flashes to tell you what it's doing. If you want to slam the batteries with a lot of amps, you can force it into "bulk" mode and the voltage goes up to 14.4 until you change it, or the battery becomes charged. You can put it in normal or maintenance mode also where it's charging at 13.6 volts, or 13.2 volts. Left on automatic, it will do its own thing and every once in a while go into bulk mode for 15 minutes to stir up the battery electrolyte and prevent sulfation of the plates.

Does the WFCO converter have anything similar to that ?


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

After thinking a bit more, I'll bet your tech was talking about the AC current draw of the converter. If the converter is rated for 55 amp output, that means it draws about 800 watts or 6.7 amps on the AC side (800 watts divided by 120 volts gives 6.7 amps). Running at 800 watts, it will PRODUCE a maximum of about 55 amps (800 watts divided by 14.4 volts gives 55 amps).

Your inverter / charger will do the same thing, although some of them have a shunting ability to send more or less power to the batteries.

You have to watch out for some of these techs - they may not know their ear from their elbow !!


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Insomniak said:


> On our current (old) TT, I put in a Progressive Dynamics 9245 converter with the built-in charge wizard. It has a remote "pendant" with an led and button that allows you to change the mode of the charger. The led flashes to tell you what it's doing. If you want to slam the batteries with a lot of amps, you can force it into "bulk" mode and the voltage goes up to 14.4 until you change it, or the battery becomes charged. You can put it in normal or maintenance mode also where it's charging at 13.6 volts, or 13.2 volts. Left on automatic, it will do its own thing and every once in a while go into bulk mode for 15 minutes to stir up the battery electrolyte and prevent sulfation of the plates.


That sounds like a pretty slick unit, Insomniak.








But that's a converter, not an inverter, right?

An open question: Are there any combination units out there. Work as a converter and charger when on shore power, and an inverter when not?

Happy Trails,
Doug


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