# Chevy Suburban



## deanintemp

We just settled on purchasing a new "used" tow vehicle. We are in the process of closing on a very nice 2005 Chevy Suburban Z71 with the 5.3L V8 engine. We have until Monday to pull out of the deal and would like some feedback as to how well the Suburban handles towing travel trailers. Our travel trailer is a 2005 Outback 26RS.


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## LarryTheOutback

You didn't mention the gear ratio of the back end. That would be helpful for future responses.

We tow a 26RS with a 1/2 ton Suburban with the towing package. The 1/2 ton is barely adequate for the 26RS. I wish I had the 3/4 ton. Why? It is a struggle to go up long steep hills; one of these days I'm expecting our transmission to die. More importantly there are a few hills I won't go DOWN anymore. The braking system is ok for normal mountains, but for the exceptional downhill it is simply not adequate bordering on dangerous.

A fully loaded 26RS is too heavy for the 1500. We are very careful to tow with empty water/grey/black tanks and we try not to load too much stuff into the trailer.

Also check the towing capacity of the Z71 vs. the stock 1500. I seem to recall it is lower. I also don't remember if they offered the towing package in the Z71.

If I had it to do over again, I would have held out for the 3/4 ton.

Ed


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## johnp

I'll second that I had that combo with a 98 burb and cooked the tranny. You might not be happy towing with that unless it has 4.10 gears.The tranny is the weak link in the 1500's

John


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## Ghosty

deanintemp said:


> We just settled on purchasing a new "used" tow vehicle. We are in the process of closing on a very nice 2005 Chevy Suburban Z71 with the 5.3L V8 engine. We have until Monday to pull out of the deal and would like some feedback as to how well the Suburban handles towing travel trailers. Our travel trailer is a 2005 Outback 26RS.


My short answer is - i use to have a 2005 1500 Silverado 5.3L pulling a 23RS ... i got so tired of white knuckle driving and just feeling like I was at my limits that I went and got a 2008 2500HD Duramax 6.6L with 6spd Allison Transmission (BEAST) .. and never looked back ...

and then i went from a 23RS to a 35 foot 5th wheel...

and the 2500HD tows the 35' 5th wheel better then the 1500 towed the fully loaded 23RS...

plus it actually gets better mileage ...

If you can - get a diesel -- odds are -- you will eventually...

But you will be at your limits with a 1500 and the 26RS ...


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## Justman

If I had to do it all over again, I would buy a 3/4 ton diesel FIRST! We bought a Yukon XL 1500 and soon after purchased our 25RSS. The Yukon didn't handle hills very well at all and sorely lacked power while towing. After 1.5 years, I bought the 3/4 ton Silverado and finally experienced a decent towing experience. No more white knuckles... As a matter of fact, we recently moved to San Antonio. I towed the trailer and my wife drove the Yukon from Shreveport. Once we got into SA, she had trouble keeping up with me in traffic. The truck has a LOT of power and now I just smile when I push on the gas (fuel







) pedal and actually have the power to get up and go with the trailer attached.

Buy a 3/4 ton. You won't regret it.


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## Collinsfam_WY

My experience echos Ghosty's and everyone elses. If you need the seating space of a Suburban, look for a used 3/4 ton 'Burb with the 8.1l engine, make sure you get a good receiver hitch to replace the stock one, and you will be in good shape.

-CC


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## nekkoddd

I think the Z71 is a heavier duty suspension than the standard 1500, correct? I have a 2002 Yukon Denali XL with the 6L engine and the heavy duty tow package. It pulls my 23KRS but you know it is back there. I think it depends on how far you plan on pulling the trailer. i would not want to be going on long trips with your proposed rig.


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## LarryTheOutback

nekkoddd said:


> i would not want to be going on long trips with your proposed rig.


I think there are three separate issues:

Long term issues with the transmission and engine
Short term safety issues such as going down extreme hills with inadequate brakes
Exceeding the towing capacity of the tow vehicle. 
I've made a decision to accept all that comes with (1), carefully manage (3) and avoid the extreme hills to the extent possible to mitigate (2). Long trips really only affect (1); we've done 8000 mile trips with our combination with great success (so far).

A 2500 burb would fix (1) (2) and (3).

Ed


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## mswalt

When I first started rving, I had a 2004 26RS. At the time, we had a Suburban 1500 with the 5.3 engine. Not sure of the gear ratio, but that engine was at the top of it's limits. It only took one trip down I-10 and a couple of long hills to realize this was not enough TV.

Upgraded to the 8.1 liter 3/4 ton Suburban. Never looked back.

I don't think a 1/2 ton will be enough truck.

Mark


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## deanintemp

Additional Information:

I have looked up the specific tow ratings for the 5.3L engine with Z71 package and they are as follows:
-Dead weight hitch max trailer...5,000#
-Dead weight hitch max tongue...500#

-Distributed hitch max trailer...7,100#
-Distributed hitch max tongue...1,000#

I utilize a distributed hitch with sway control and live in SE Michigan and rarely take the trailer beyond a 4-hour radius with relatively flat terrain. Typically, we take 3-4 trips per year within this radius. Although, next year we may go to Myrtle Beach, this would be the very rare occasion of a longer trip. Currently, I am pulling my 26RS with a 1997 Ford Econoline conversion van with no problems - the van specifications indicate lower horsepower and torque than the Suburban. When I purchased my used camper, the existing title indicated that it weighed 4,820# - this was an actual reading with propane tanks full but otherwise unloaded. Since I always travel dry (other than propane tanks) and I estimate my trailer cargo to be about 500#, my total estimated trailer weight is less than 5,500#. I will be getting an actual trailer weight (with cargo) very soon to verify total trailer weight.

Any other comments - obviously, I am not getting the comments I am looking for!


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## Ghosty

deanintemp said:


> Additional Information:
> 
> I have looked up the specific tow ratings for the 5.3L engine with Z71 package and they are as follows:
> -Dead weight hitch max trailer...5,000#
> -Dead weight hitch max tongue...500#
> 
> -Distributed hitch max trailer...7,100#
> -Distributed hitch max tongue...1,000#
> 
> I utilize a distributed hitch with sway control and live in SE Michigan and rarely take the trailer beyond a 4-hour radius with relatively flat terrain. Typically, we take 3-4 trips per year within this radius. Although, next year we may go to Myrtle Beach, this would be the very rare occasion of a longer trip. Currently, I am pulling my 26RS with a 1997 Ford Econoline conversion van with no problems - the van specifications indicate lower horsepower and torque than the Suburban. When I purchased my used camper, the existing title indicated that it weighed 4,820# - this was an actual reading with propane tanks full but otherwise unloaded. Since I always travel dry (other than propane tanks) and I estimate my trailer cargo to be about 500#, my total estimated trailer weight is less than 5,500#. I will be getting an actual trailer weight (with cargo) very soon to verify total trailer weight.
> 
> Any other comments - obviously, I am not getting the comments I am looking for!


Dean - like i said before -- i did the same setup that you want (almost) from 2005-2008. Yes the truck will pull fine (you are well within the manufacturers specs) - and the trailer will set back there like it is suppose to - but you will be at your limits ... up and down each hill - meeting each crosswind - and especially if you are running into a head-on wind - you are going to feel that you wish you had just a little more power. Is the setup you want safe and doable - heck YES.

All we are trying to say is that the majority of folks with 3/4 ton diesels here started off like you - with a 1/2 ton. i wished i had started off with a diesel instead of purchasing a new truck (5.3l) and then having to sell it in three years to get a diesel (in the long run it would have substantially saved me to do the diesel early on) ... but at the time i joined the Forum everyone was on the "You can tow an Outback with a volkswagon" mantra - and i kind of wish someone would have said "Dude - you need a diesel and here is the reasons why"... so -- "Dude - you need a diesel and here is the reasons why!!!"

anyway - YES the setup you have will be good -- but YES you are going to want more eventually (probably sooner than later) --

My 2005 23RS weighed in - moderately loaded at 630 hitch -- and 6000 weight. DO NOT GO BY THE STICKERS ON THE TRAILER. Those weights are for a virtual empty shell with none of the actual appliances installed...

But if you have no hills - and are not going on drives longer than an hour away - then you should be fine...


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## clarkely

deanintemp said:


> Additional Information:
> 
> I have looked up the specific tow ratings for the 5.3L engine with Z71 package and they are as follows:
> -Dead weight hitch max trailer...5,000#
> -Dead weight hitch max tongue...500#
> 
> -Distributed hitch max trailer...7,100#
> -Distributed hitch max tongue...1,000#
> 
> I utilize a distributed hitch with sway control and live in SE Michigan and rarely take the trailer beyond a 4-hour radius with relatively flat terrain. Typically, we take 3-4 trips per year within this radius. Although, next year we may go to Myrtle Beach, this would be the very rare occasion of a longer trip. Currently, I am pulling my 26RS with a 1997 Ford Econoline conversion van with no problems - the van specifications indicate lower horsepower and torque than the Suburban. When I purchased my used camper, the existing title indicated that it weighed 4,820# - this was an actual reading with propane tanks full but otherwise unloaded. Since I always travel dry (other than propane tanks) and I estimate my trailer cargo to be about 500#, my total estimated trailer weight is less than 5,500#. I will be getting an actual trailer weight (with cargo) very soon to verify total trailer weight.
> 
> Any other comments - obviously, I am not getting the comments I am looking for!


You will be short of power on long hills, but if you pack as lightly as possible you can do it........there are several Musts though, and don't get me wrong, you would be Happier with a 3/4 Ton. I pulled my Keystone 298BHLGl (6400 Published dry/9700 gvwr) through many a smaller mountain that we have here in the east (Pa,NY) if you won't be going west with the set up........ it also depends on how long you have been towing/experience, your Patience, and whether you can afford or are willing to do the tires and air-bags, cause that is night and day difference on the Soccer Mom Engineered Suburban - I wish they would keep it engineered to be a Truck. Again, if you can get a 3/4 ton.............you will be happier.

Must - Get new tires with a heavier rated Sidewall
Must - Get air bags, you have coil rear springs on that that are simply to soft ( i put them on every TV)
Must - have an equalizer or better sway control


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## deanintemp

You will be short of power on long hills, but if you pack as lightly as possible you can do it........there are several Musts though, and don't get me wrong, you would be Happier with a 3/4 Ton. I pulled my Keystone 298BHLGl (6400 Published dry/9700 gvwr) through many a smaller mountain that we have here in the east (Pa,NY) if you won't be going west with the set up........ it also depends on how long you have been towing/experience, your Patience, and whether you can afford or are willing to do the tires and air-bags, cause that is night and day difference on the Soccer Mom Engineered Suburban - I wish they would keep it engineered to be a Truck. Again, if you can get a 3/4 ton.............you will be happier.

Must - Get new tires with a heavier rated Sidewall
Must - Get air bags, you have coil rear springs on that that are simply to soft ( i put them on every TV)
Must - have an equalizer or better sway control
[/quote]

Great list of musts, very helpful.

Must #1:
The Suburban I am looking at has 17" Goodyear Wrangler AT/S tires. These are "off-road" tires designed for trucks, any experience with these tires or any others? After conducting an extensive internet search I was able to read a large number of reviews on the Goodyear Wranglers. The synopsis is that the traction in all weather conditions and off road is excellent and that the tire life is very good, an unusual combination for tires. However, many that use their vehicle as tow vehicles complain about the somewhat "soft" side wall - looks like I will need to look for replacements - any suggestions? I need good ride comfort, good all-weather traction, good tire life, and strong side wall.

Must #2:
I believe this truck comes with the auto-leveling rear air bags, would this be sufficient for air bags? If not, what do you suggest and do the air bags you mention replace any existing suspension components? Are the air bags something that can be installed by myself - I am an engineer and typically do all my own car work including changing light bulbs, LOL.. Just kidding, I actually am experienced doing complete brake jobs, alternator changes, starter changes, supercharger modifications, etc. However, I have never messed with air suspensions...

Must #3:
My current hitch configuration includes a weight distributing hitch with one (1) friction anti0sway control. I think my distribution arms are either 750# or 1000# arms - camper is in storage and i cant confirm at this moment.

Experience:
I have about 15-years experience towing boats, pop-ups, 24' travel trailer, to my current Outback 26RS. Past tow vehicles have included V8 Grand Cherokee on my 24'er!, full size Ford E150 van, Ford Expedition, and even a Lexus R300 towing my 12'box Coleman Utah camper (2500Lbs)...not good!

One of the reasons for the purchase of a Suburban is for everyday drive-ability, fitting everyone for trips, and somewhat of a "professional" look as I am in sales and must visit clients regularly. A "typical" truck is not what I am looking for over-all and my options start to narrow very quickly once I consider all of the needs this vehicle must meet.

Additonal comments are always welcomed...


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## clarkely

Must #1:
The Suburban I am looking at has 17" Goodyear Wrangler AT/S tires. These are "off-road" tires designed for trucks, any experience with these tires or any others? After conducting an extensive internet search I was able to read a large number of reviews on the Goodyear Wranglers. The synopsis is that the traction in all weather conditions and off road is excellent and that the tire life is very good, an unusual combination for tires. However, many that use their vehicle as tow vehicles complain about the somewhat "soft" side wall - looks like I will need to look for replacements - any suggestions? I need good ride comfort, good all-weather traction, good tire life, and strong side wall. You sacrifice ride for a good StrongSidewall tire, but a must for your Towing need. I currently have Michelin LTX/AT2 ( I took off stock and put these on day My 2500 was delivered) They get great reviews.........i do not hink they are that great or wering that great. I Liked the Cooper Discovery I had on my last Burb Better

Must #2:
I believe this truck comes with the auto-leveling rear air bags, would this be sufficient for air bags? If not, what do you suggest and do the air bags you mention replace any existing suspension components? Are the air bags something that can be installed by myself - I am an engineer and typically do all my own car work including changing light bulbs, LOL.. Just kidding, I actually am experienced doing complete brake jobs, alternator changes, starter changes, supercharger modifications, etc. However, I have never messed with air suspensions... I have No experience with Gm's Auto Level, I always put my own compressor and air bags on, so i can increase or decrease either side or both depending on load and road conditions. Auot level will be good in compensating for hitch weight and getting youback to level, but you won't be able to adjust the ride beyond that or bad roads.

Must #3:
My current hitch configuration includes a weight distributing hitch with one (1) friction anti0sway control. I think my distribution arms are either 750# or 1000# arms - camper is in storage and i cant confirm at this moment. A friction Sway control is pretty much useless as trailers get longer, simply to much leverage on it from the trailer length.......Unfortunately people do not understand or realize this until they have had a bad experience first hand, unfortunately that may be to late

One of the reasons for the purchase of a Suburban is for everyday drive-ability, fitting everyone for trips, and somewhat of a "professional" look as I am in sales and must visit clients regularly. A "typical" truck is not what I am looking for over-all and my options start to narrow very quickly once I consider all of the needs this vehicle must meet. I understand completely.......similar needs here and i have four children, The 3/4 ton Burb is a lot more "truck" and will benefit you greatly for towing, yet still takes care of all the other day needs.

Additonal comments are always welcomed...


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## azthroop

Just my two-cents, but I would go with the 3/4 ton with the 8.1L engine and 4.10 gears. We found a used one for a good price and it was well worth the difference. Even our mechanic said that if we plan to pull anything substantial, and a TT is substantial, GO BIG! Otherwise he said we will be visiting him more often that we want to.

The 3/4 tons are out there, but they are rare. Look on eBay and plan on a family trip to pick one up.

You will wish you bought a 3/4 ton once you start trying to pull with that 5.3 engine.

azthroop


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## johnp

Sounds like your getting your towing capacity off the hitch sticker not the actual towing capacity by engine and gear ratio. Now without being too sarcastic you asked opinions and we have been there done that but buy the burb then next year buy another one or put in a new tranny or rearend. Sorry

John


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## Joonbee

So what is the rear axle ratio??

I have SOB freinds who just did 6200 miles out west and back over 3 weeks. They have had their burb for awhile and have had no problems, but they had to have the 4:10 gears with the 5.3. Think their trailer is around 7k gross.

Of course the times we go together, I have to make sure I don't leave them if leading or run them over when following.

Jim


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## mmblantz

I had a 95 1/2 ton burb with a 5.7L when we got our Outback and it was horrible. I uped it to the 98 3/4 with the 7.4L we have now and its like day and night. Stay away from the 1/2 ton with the little motor especially in that big truck. ---Mike


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## Fanatical1

I had a 2005 Suburban Z71 with the 5.3 and a 26KBRS which at the time was the same weight as the 26RS. I found after a year that
I needed to upgrade from the Suburban (and also was warned on this site of the impending upgrade). I thought if I took it easy and
did not travel too far from home I would be OK. Cost me a lot of money to upgrade and I wish I would have listened to the advice
I heard from Outbackers. In my case I was deciding on what trailer to buy because I already owned the Suburban.

Do a search on "Suburban". Lots of posts over the years with your very questions. And yes, the Suburban will pull your trailer.

Good luck with watever you decide.

Mark


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## azthroop

I forgot to add that once you get the 3/4 ton with the 8.1L you will also want to add the B&M Tranny cooler, larger tranny pan, Flowmaster exhaust, K&N cold air intake, etc. See, if you do all that than I won't feel like I wasted any money since that is what I have done so far!!!!

We pull the 31RQS with everything, including the kitchen sink and it still does great!

azthroop


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## deanintemp

johnp said:


> Sounds like your getting your towing capacity off the hitch sticker not the actual towing capacity by engine and gear ratio. Now without being too sarcastic you asked opinions and we have been there done that but buy the burb then next year buy another one or put in a new tranny or rearend. Sorry
> 
> John


Towing capacities come from a GM Powertrain engineer (friend of mine) based on the VIN on the vehicle I am looking at. The VIN contains all the vehicle options including engine, transmission, suspension, and rear-end ratio. In my opinion, and based on past towing experience, I would NEVER tow near the capacities of a tow vehicle and these numbers appear to have enough "cushion" for my comfort level. When towing, I never expect to make land speed records and typically let other pass if they so desire. Even my non-towing habits do not include speeding in excess of current traffic conditions. Traveling a bit slower in the right lane while towing my trailer is not an issue for me.

I will continue my search for other burbs, possibly with the larger engine and 4.10 rear end. However, I must also balance this decision with the anticipated fuel economy that comes with a larger engine and higher rear-end ratio. Since 99% of the use will be without the trailer, fuel economy will play as large of a part in the decision - I put on about 25K miles per year and a couple of mpg adds up very quickly, especially when the top end is around 18 mpg! I also fear the anticipation of much higher fuel costs in the near future with the looming "cap and trade" program about to be unveiled and debated very soon. Cap and trade costs will have a huge cost affect on automobile fuel costs, including diesel fuels.

Again, I am currently towing my 26RS with a 1997 Ford Econoline (5.4L V8) with no issues. Would the burb tow least as well as this Ford E150?


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## rsm7

I understand what you're saying I also live in relativley flat lands, northern Ohio, and most of my camping is trips of less than 3-4 hours. If you're not a speed demon and your not in hills the 5.3l will be enough for you considering your desire for fuel economy in a daily driver. But the suspension is just too soft to handle that weight. If you must do it add an airbag lift but that wont help your tranmission and brakes. You really should look for a 3/4 ton with a 6.ol and a 3.73. That would give you a better suspension, better brakes, and a heavy duty transmission without killing you on gas like a 8.1l. Another option is an Excursion. I and my father have always been die hard GM owners but I love this monster SUV. They have the tranny and the suspension to tow whatever you want. They come in a 5.4l motor which you should get a great deal on because not many people want it, (too weak). Most people want the V10. Very strong but very thirsty. The diesel is in high demand and very pricey but you get the best of both worlds, power and MPG. For your application I would look for a 5.4 Excursion or a 6.0 3/4 ton Burb. The later Excursions 03-05 offered a 5 speed auto but I dont know if you can get it with the 5.4, if so, that would be a great combo for a daily driver and a part time TV.


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## Collinsfam_WY

deanintemp said:


> Sounds like your getting your towing capacity off the hitch sticker not the actual towing capacity by engine and gear ratio. Now without being too sarcastic you asked opinions and we have been there done that but buy the burb then next year buy another one or put in a new tranny or rearend. Sorry
> 
> John


Again, I am currently towing my 26RS with a 1997 Ford Econoline (5.4L V8) with no issues. Would the burb tow least as well as this Ford E150?
[/quote]

*sigh* Yes. Probably a tiny bit better really - my old TV had the same powertrain as your Econoline and I was not overly impressed with it. I too am a former 1/2 ton owner that used to talk just like you are (and I have a smaller trailer). Again - find a 3/4 ton Burb. If you are scared of the big block stroker motor then get one with the 6.0 - but experience here has shown that the 6.0 + 4L80E is a bit of a dog - get a later 3/4 ton y/m with the 6spd trans and 6.0 like Clarkely has.

-CC


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## bweiler

Echoing what has been said.....We have a 07' tahoe with 3.73 and a 25RSS. Even in flat areas of Michigan - it's really short on power. Tows solid with the hensley hitch - but the lack of torque is really noticeable. The 4.10 rear end and larger engine would make a big difference. Suspension seems decent - maybe the air leveling makes a difference. Had to add a trans cooler since the GM "tow package" doesn't include it. Trans was getting up to 220 outlet temp towing in 45 degree weather at 55 mph. Now it runs 30 degrees cooler even with the cheap GM aux cooler at 80 degrees outside temp with A/C on..


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## deanintemp

OK, I have compromised...somewhat! I did proceed with the purchase of a 2003 Suburban as my new tow vehicle. However, I was able to find a rare LT with the 6L engine, rear air suspension, and stiff side-wall tires. I believe this TV will be the perfect compromise in comfort, fuel efficiency, and towing capacity with my Outback 26RS. The dealer let me have the vehicle for a day and I towed my trailer on the highway prior to finalizing the deal. I was able to tow my trailer about 150 miles on the highway and some country roads and it did very well for the limited test I was able to conduct.

*I would like to thank all of the responders to my query and I will keep you posted if I run into any "issues" with this combination.*

Additional question:
The manual says to let the rear air suspension settle prior to hooking up the equalizer bars. This would be counter to my normal procedure of cranking up the TV and TT together so as to make it easier to install the equalizing bars. I would like to hear from anyone that has experience with this type of set-up and what procedure you use to hook up your TT?


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## Nathan

Congrats on the new truck! Post some pictures and keep us updated!


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## Scoutr2

I, too, can speak with experience. The 1500 Suburbans with the 5.3L engines almost always have a car-type transmission and the 3:73 rear axle ratio - neither of which will be suited to your towing needs.

A 3/4-ton vehicle has the powertrain (engine, tranny, rear-end) that are better suited to towing a travel trailer. The suspension and brakes are sized appropriately, also. They usually have a tranny cooler and larger capacity radiator and alternator, too.

I started out towing our 29BHS (about the same weight, but a few feet longer) and soon realized that our Suburban, that had towed our big Coleman popup admirably, would not reliably and safely deliver us to our destinations. It was a white-knuckled experience and I was mentally drained after a 100 mile jaunt, trying to deal with cross-winds, semi's, and all those stupid drivers out there.

The 3/4-ton made the experience much more pleasurable and gave me a greater peace of mind that I wouldn't end up stranded alonside the road some day. It doesn't do much for eliminating all those stupid drivers out there, but makes it easier and safer to negotiate them.

Will a 1500 TV pull your trailer? Short answer - yes it will. But I'd recommend a 3/4-ton TV with diesel engine. If you are looking to trade, do it right the first time. If you plan to keep your trailer for a number of years (and/or trade for another in the future), then it will be a good investment and you will never regret it.

Happy camping!









Mike


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## deanintemp

Okay, the verdict is in. We have now towed our 26RS twice with the new (used) burb and it has performed as I expected...and quite a bit better than suggested. Our first outing was to Frankenmuth, MI...about a 2-hour drive on relatively flat terrain. I had no issues with traveling at 65-70 and got about 10 mpg. The second trip was a bit more strenuous... a 6-hour trip to mid ohio (Hocking Hills) with lots of steep climbs and over very hilly terrain the last 90-minutes of the trip. Again, the burb handled well but saw "some" potential power issues on the steepest climbs. However, I was able to maintain 60-65 on most of the climbs with the engine pulling about 3500 rpm's...not too bad in strong hills.

Overall, I am confident in the decision I made for the suburban is a very comfortable vehicle to travel in as I also took a 10-hour solo trip to Iowa and the ride was excellent!

I suppose that if I were in constant hilly terrain and took continuous long trips the 3/4 ton vehicle would be a better choice. Again, I want to thank all the responders for their insight and wisdom.


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## Nathan

Glad to hear it is working out well for you!


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