# Hemi Durango/aspen Owners - What Do You Tow?



## jiminny (Dec 26, 2007)

Hi.

I'm new to the forum and learning a whole lot from Outbackers.com and other RV forums, as well. We have not bought our TT, yet. We're still researching and trying to decide which way to go with the many choices available. As I browse this forum and others, I have been hoping to hear from owners of newer 1/2 ton Hemi tow tehicles like the Dodge Durango and of their towing experiences. So if you have towed with this vehicle or the newer Chrysler Aspen version, please share your experiences here.

I'd like to know about how large a TT can be safely towed by this TV. The tow ratings for the newer Hemi Durango/Aspen class can go as high as 8,950 lbs! (properly equipped, of course.)

Any input appreciated.

Thanks, Jim


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Hi jiminny
















Outbackers! 

One of our members, Mgonzo2u tows his 21rs with a 2004 Dodge Durango SLT 5.7 V-8 with Hemi...
Hopefully he and others will chime in. You can always send him a private message Clicky here for his profile, and then click on Send Message.

Hope this helps!

Good luck,


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## mike (Dec 17, 2006)

We tow with a durango 5.9l a different engine. The problem that you may have and many others will chime in, is the length of the durango. Many will say stay with a 23 or less. For us the 23rs is great but someday we may move up to a 3/4 ton tv. If u also do a search on durango you will find previous discussions on this topic as it is a popular one. I did test tow a 27 that seemed fine but after all the people warn you about sway, etc it may discourage. There are also people here that do tow bigger than the 23 with a durango. Also Whatever u do get a good quality sway/wt dist hitch. Equalizer is pretty popular. Our first trip we went from il to fl. and did not incur any problems. Also due to the width of the durango u may want to get some good tow mirrors. When i towed the tt from the dealer I could not see anything. I bought a pair of Mckesh mirros from someone on this sight. It made a huge difference.

ANYWAY GOOD LUCK AND WELCOME!!!!


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## jiminny (Dec 26, 2007)

skippershe said:


> Hi jiminny
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Dawn,

Thanks for the referral. BTW, nice picture of the truck. How did you insert it in to your signature? I created one but can't figure how to upload a pic.

Thanks, Jim


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## jiminny (Dec 26, 2007)

mike said:


> We tow with a durango 5.9l a different engine. The problem that you may have and many others will chime in, is the length of the durango. Many will say stay with a 23 or less. For us the 23rs is great but someday we may move up to a 3/4 ton tv. If u also do a search on durango you will find previous discussions on this topic as it is a popular one. I did test tow a 27 that seemed fine but after all the people warn you about sway, etc it may discourage. There are also people here that do tow bigger than the 23 with a durango. Also Whatever u do get a good quality sway/wt dist hitch. Equalizer is pretty popular. Our first trip we went from il to fl. and did not incur any problems. Also due to the width of the durango u may want to get some good tow mirrors. When i towed the tt from the dealer I could not see anything. I bought a pair of Mckesh mirros from someone on this sight. It made a huge difference.
> 
> ANYWAY GOOD LUCK AND WELCOME!!!!


Thanks, Mike.

I know what you mean. I have come across that warning before. And they are correct to point out that a shorter wheelbase tv has less leverage over a longer tt. I have read the guidelines at a great site you probably know of, http://www.rvtowingtips.com However, my question is "Does wheelbase, alone, have the sole effect on sway? Or may other factors compensate a short wheelbase and thereby mitigate the effects of sway?" ie: Equalizer WD hitch dual cams, friction bars, Hensleys, etc. I guess I should point out at this point that I don't have a death wish or would ever risk the lives of my family for some extra closet space or a queen bed. But I would like to know what experience others have had with this vehicle configuration.

The new Durangos have some novel features that try to address the problems with sway, tho. They claim to be able to reduce sway by way of the computer controlled electronic stability control by using a program to control braking and acceleration to each wheel as the first signs of sway occur. Does it work? I don't know. But, this approach is probably the result of sharing technology with Daimler-Benz. And this year Chrysler has rated the new trucks with a max tow wt. of 8,950 lbs. (2WD) Is that hype? I am hoping owners with newer rigs and this technology can add their voice to the debate. I have listed some specs on my 08 Aspen, (Durango twin) in my signature.

I do intend to go with the Equalizer and probably a Prodigy system for the braking, as you recommend. I will check out the Mckesh mirrors, too. One thing I left out of my signature is the wheelbase @ 119" and the rear overhang of 44". I read somewhere that so much overhang will help reduce sway and I believe the wheelbase is longer than both the Tahoe and Expedition (116") BTW, what year is your Durango?

Happy Holidays, Jim


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## mike (Dec 17, 2006)

Jim, it is a 2003. We recently looked at the new Aspens. The dw really liked them. Some other considerations are What are your plans for the tt. The 23 rs is great for us as it has two queen beds. It can get a little tight with no center slide but this is our first tt and it works for us. How many people do u plan to take camping with u. Do u plan to stay on flat land or branch out to the hills. So far we have not experienced any sway and we did hit some strong winds on one trip and did a 16 hour trip each way without difficulty. I am also a novice at this and have only had one season the the tt.

Next year we will probably get a new tv and I am leaning towards a 3/4 ton but u never know what may come up between now and then. The dw really wants to basement finished, she then said I can get whatever I want.

Something else is that now is imho this is probably the best time to buy because the dealer are not moving any. But come spring u will probably pay top dollar.

Good luck


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

jiminny said:


> Hi jiminny
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Dawn,

Thanks for the referral. BTW, nice picture of the truck. How did you insert it in to your signature? I created one but can't figure how to upload a pic.

Thanks, Jim
[/quote]
Hi Jim,
I upload my photos to Photobucket.com (free) and then copy and paste the url here. Look at the little boxes above (just under Fonts) and click the Insert Image box (looks like a little picture frame) then copy and paste your url into the box. Hope that helps!


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

The Tahoe has a 116 wheelbase. The expedition has a 119 wheelbase. Your Aspen is 3 inches narrower than the Expo or Tahoe. So handling wise, the tahoe or expo will be a slightly better tow platform than your Aspen.. They are wider. But the Aspen is still a good tow vehicle with the right trailer..

There are lots of people pulling 25-26 footers with them, but most stick with about a 21-23 footer.

The closer the wheels are to the ball the more control you will have over the trailer. The further the rear wheels are from the ball, the more the fulcrum effect tends to take place, fore and aft.

If your trailer sways, the trailer tongue will have more leverage to move the rear end of a tow vehcile with a long overhang. The shorter the overhang the less the possibilty there is to move the rear wheels when the trailer has a sway condition. Again the fulcrum effect can be applied this way too, side to side.

Optimum is to have the ball mount for the trailer in the exact center of the tow vehicle. 5th wheels tow so nice because the hinge point is just ahead of the rear axle, which is as close to exact center as we can physically get.

A pull-rite or hensley have the capability of physically moving the hinge/ball point forward to a point just behind the rear axle.. This is why these hitches feel more secure, they give you a feeling of a ball at the rear axle.

Here is another idea also.. Read This Clicky









Carey


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## jiminny (Dec 26, 2007)

skippershe said:


> Hi jiminny
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Dawn,

Thanks for the referral. BTW, nice picture of the truck. How did you insert it in to your signature? I created one but can't figure how to upload a pic.

Thanks, Jim
[/quote]
Hi Jim,
I upload my photos to Photobucket.com (free) and then copy and paste the url here. Look at the little boxes above (just under Fonts) and click the Insert Image box (looks like a little picture frame) then copy and paste your url into the box. Hope that helps!
[/quote]

Thanks again.

I will try that.

Happy Holidays!, Jim


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## jiminny (Dec 26, 2007)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> The Tahoe has a 116 wheelbase. The expedition has a 119 wheelbase. Your Aspen is 3 inches narrower than the Expo or Tahoe. So handling wise, the tahoe or expo will be a slightly better tow platform than your Aspen.. They are wider. But the Aspen is still a good tow vehicle with the right trailer..
> 
> There are lots of people pulling 25-26 footers with them, but most stick with about a 21-23 footer.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Carey

You're right, the Expy wheelbase is the same as the Aspen and has a wider track. Carey, you have obviously spent a lot of time thinking about safety while towing or you wouldn't have come up with the idea of the Hitch Hog. BTW, good luck with bringing it to market. I don't know enough to comment about the technical merits, but if it works as well as you say, it may just save a lot of lives on the road. It is nice to hear about innovation in recreational towing coming from a professional within the trucking industry. You also have a knack for explaining your device in plain spoken language.

I am curious to know what you think of the electronic sway control system in my vehicle. Are you familiar with any such system in the trucking industry? Do you think it can help to mitigate sway by detecting the early signs and reacting with braking and acceleration at each corner, much like the way ABS and active suspensions work?


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## jiminny (Dec 26, 2007)

mike said:


> Jim, it is a 2003. We recently looked at the new Aspens. The dw really liked them. Some other considerations are What are your plans for the tt. The 23 rs is great for us as it has two queen beds. It can get a little tight with no center slide but this is our first tt and it works for us. How many people do u plan to take camping with u. Do u plan to stay on flat land or branch out to the hills. So far we have not experienced any sway and we did hit some strong winds on one trip and did a 16 hour trip each way without difficulty. I am also a novice at this and have only had one season the the tt.
> 
> Next year we will probably get a new tv and I am leaning towards a 3/4 ton but u never know what may come up between now and then. The dw really wants to basement finished, she then said I can get whatever I want.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Mike

I think the Apen is a great truck. Obviously, Chrysler is trying to compete in the large luxo truck market. To dress up a successful truck like the Durango was a quick way to do it. I think it is a more capable truck than the Escalade/Suburban type. Smaller, yes, but the same amenities at a lower price. And it has a Hemi. Plus nav, rear dvd, back up cam and the 3rd row folds flat. What is the hp and max tow rating on the 5.9?

I have looked at the 23RS and the 25RSS. I like aspects of both. Wish Keystone could put it all together in a 3rd model. The 23RS is almost 25" and the 25RSS is 11" longer. The double bunk (23) is great but the upper single looks a bit narrow in pics. Wouldn't want one of the kids to roll off that one in the middle of the night. Guess a guard rail might help. Does the double bunk lift up and hold gear under it? Any access from outside? I like the storage door on the 25 in the bunk area and the extra space you get with the sofa seems well worth the extra 11".

One other question I have for your about the 23RS that I can't quite get from the web site is about weight. How much does your unit weigh dry with your options. Keystone lists options and packages but most units seem to ship w/all options. Your case? I spoke w/Outback rep who couldn't seem to answer with real weights and for what. She even stated that the shipping weight includes a full tank of fresh water. Huh?

I really appreciate you taking the time to relate your experiences with your OB. It sounds like you enjoy it. If you get your new 3/4 ton tv will you be keeping the 23 or upgrading as well?


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

jiminny said:


> The Tahoe has a 116 wheelbase. The expedition has a 119 wheelbase. Your Aspen is 3 inches narrower than the Expo or Tahoe. So handling wise, the tahoe or expo will be a slightly better tow platform than your Aspen.. They are wider. But the Aspen is still a good tow vehicle with the right trailer..
> 
> There are lots of people pulling 25-26 footers with them, but most stick with about a 21-23 footer.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Carey

You're right, the Expy wheelbase is the same as the Aspen and has a wider track. Carey, you have obviously spent a lot of time thinking about safety while towing or you wouldn't have come up with the idea of the Hitch Hog. BTW, good luck with bringing it to market. I don't know enough to comment about the technical merits, but if it works as well as you say, it may just save a lot of lives on the road. It is nice to hear about innovation in recreational towing coming from a professional within the trucking industry. You also have a knack for explaining your device in plain spoken language.

I am curious to know what you think of the electronic sway control system in my vehicle. Are you familiar with any such system in the trucking industry? Do you think it can help to mitigate sway by detecting the early signs and reacting with braking and acceleration at each corner, much like the way ABS and active suspensions work?
[/quote]

Hi Jimmy... Well in trucking we do not have what is called trailer sway unless we pull doubles or triples that are supported by trailer dollies between them. The trailer dollies are hooked from a pintle hook on the back of the trailer, and are allowed to hinge freely, so sway is a problem, but there is no fix for it.

There is another setup that we call a B-train. It uses a dolly that has two sets of wheels and is attached at the front of the trailer in the same 5th wheel fashion that is used in trucking. This eliminates sway because the two axles tend to lock thereselves to the ground, much better than a single axle.

But the normal semi that uses one trailer does not have trailer sway. It has movement, but no sway.

I think the trailer sway dampening that is offered on your rig is extraordinary.. But I'm still waiting for a test done by a magazine, etc same as everyone. The idea is right on, and should work very well.

Basically Dodge is attacking the trailer sway issue like I am. Stopping movement of the rear axle. 
If a trailer sways, it has to move the rear axle of the tow vehicle to effect it. You can do this with your hands in a line. 
If the rear of the trailer moves to one side, then the front moves opposite. If sway gets bad enough, the rear axle of the tow vehicle becomes the steer axle for the trailer. 
Dodge is countering this problem using a brake at the wheel that needs control, which would force the trailer to have to push the entire vehicle, rather than just the rear.. This would make sway a much more controllable situation.

If the electronic controls are good enough, this could eliminate sway. I think though, this idea is in the baby stages, but will improve in the future. The idea is one of the only true fixes for sway. If this works well would make your Aspen have the stability of a longer vehicle.

I would go by your dealer and tell him your concerns about trailer length.. A good dealer will let you test drive a trailer that you are interested in. Maybe not a new one, but they should have a used model around the same length you are interested in.. Have the manager go with you.. If they are not willing to allow you to test drive a model, maybe you should look elsewhere. They might even rent you a used model for a weekend too. I feel dealers should do this to make a sale. Some will, some wont, but its worth a try.

Good Luck!
Carey


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Jiminny,

I see you got your signature pic posted...good job!


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## mike (Dec 17, 2006)

jim, The wife loves the 23 rs set up. We are basically outdoors people so the tt is for bad weather sleeping and giving the little one naps. I am one that stronly believes that camping is for being outdoors. Our seventeen y.o. is pretty good in that she will find outside stuff to do. If u have teenagers that are not that pliable; the bigger trailers can come in handy, i.e 26 rs with a seperate room for the kids. When its just us, the wife will sleep with the little one in one queen and I have the other and the seventeen y.o uses the couch. We tend to use the upper bunk for storage. Some have done modes to place cabinets up there. The other reason we went with the 23 rs is that we would like to take another family, if it storms we should have enough space for four adults and five small children. Will it be crowded? YES!, but its a way for everyone to get together.

With regards to test towing a veh, I strongly suggest it. I test towed a sob and looked at numerous dealers. They will tell u anything for the sale!. This site is great because no question is considered stupid.

Another item is where are u located. There are many here that have developed great relationships with dealers and can point u in the right direction, or steer u away from a bad one.

And yes/maybe if the dw lets me get the bigger tv someday i would like a bigger tt but just maybe. We really like the 23 rs for what we use it for. The main reson for the bigger tv is it will make me feel more safe. Not that the durango doesn't. But u read some horror stories and it can really make u cautious.

good luck


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## jiminny (Dec 26, 2007)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> The Tahoe has a 116 wheelbase. The expedition has a 119 wheelbase. Your Aspen is 3 inches narrower than the Expo or Tahoe. So handling wise, the tahoe or expo will be a slightly better tow platform than your Aspen.. They are wider. But the Aspen is still a good tow vehicle with the right trailer..
> 
> There are lots of people pulling 25-26 footers with them, but most stick with about a 21-23 footer.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Carey

You're right, the Expy wheelbase is the same as the Aspen and has a wider track. Carey, you have obviously spent a lot of time thinking about safety while towing or you wouldn't have come up with the idea of the Hitch Hog. BTW, good luck with bringing it to market. I don't know enough to comment about the technical merits, but if it works as well as you say, it may just save a lot of lives on the road. It is nice to hear about innovation in recreational towing coming from a professional within the trucking industry. You also have a knack for explaining your device in plain spoken language.

I am curious to know what you think of the electronic sway control system in my vehicle. Are you familiar with any such system in the trucking industry? Do you think it can help to mitigate sway by detecting the early signs and reacting with braking and acceleration at each corner, much like the way ABS and active suspensions work?
[/quote]

Hi Jimmy... Well in trucking we do not have what is called trailer sway unless we pull doubles or triples that are supported by trailer dollies between them. The trailer dollies are hooked from a pintle hook on the back of the trailer, and are allowed to hinge freely, so sway is a problem, but there is no fix for it.

There is another setup that we call a B-train. It uses a dolly that has two sets of wheels and is attached at the front of the trailer in the same 5th wheel fashion that is used in trucking. This eliminates sway because the two axles tend to lock thereselves to the ground, much better than a single axle.

But the normal semi that uses one trailer does not have trailer sway. It has movement, but no sway.

I think the trailer sway dampening that is offered on your rig is extraordinary.. But I'm still waiting for a test done by a magazine, etc same as everyone. The idea is right on, and should work very well.

Basically Dodge is attacking the trailer sway issue like I am. Stopping movement of the rear axle. 
If a trailer sways, it has to move the rear axle of the tow vehicle to effect it. You can do this with your hands in a line. 
If the rear of the trailer moves to one side, then the front moves opposite. If sway gets bad enough, the rear axle of the tow vehicle becomes the steer axle for the trailer. 
Dodge is countering this problem using a brake at the wheel that needs control, which would force the trailer to have to push the entire vehicle, rather than just the rear.. This would make sway a much more controllable situation.

If the electronic controls are good enough, this could eliminate sway. I think though, this idea is in the baby stages, but will improve in the future. The idea is one of the only true fixes for sway. If this works well would make your Aspen have the stability of a longer vehicle.

I would go by your dealer and tell him your concerns about trailer length.. A good dealer will let you test drive a trailer that you are interested in. Maybe not a new one, but they should have a used model around the same length you are interested in.. Have the manager go with you.. If they are not willing to allow you to test drive a model, maybe you should look elsewhere. They might even rent you a used model for a weekend too. I feel dealers should do this to make a sale. Some will, some wont, but its worth a try.

Good Luck!
Carey
[/quote]

Hi Carey,

Thanks for the vote of confidence on the sway control ability of the Aspen. Saw your post of the YouTube video demo of the Durango's anti-sway control in action. You seemed a little impressed.







Could it be this capable 1/2 ton just won over another convert? You know it is funny that we both happen to come across that same video around the same time. After your last post, I did a little searching for some proof the system works. I ended up on YouTube, and, VOILA! There it was. Btw, did you know there were so many collectors of videos of horrible rv crashes out there swapping them on YouTube? Morbid...anyway..I was logging in tonight to post the link over to you since we were just discussing the same topic a few days ago and how it would be nice to see some road test of the feature. You beat me to the post and stole my thunder!







!








Well, that's OK. Great minds think alike, eh?









Belated Happy New Year!
Jim


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

I put that up for you Jim! I was hoping you'd see it.. I bet that lil trailer weighed at least 5k.. You can see it really tugging on that durango.. Yep very impressive! Who says ole dodge isnt the leader of the pack!! At least someone is thinkin about us rv'ers.. Let the others follow suit! lol<wink>

I would love to hook onto about a 30 foot trailer with your rig.. I bet it would tow it well with this sway feature..

Dude, go rent a trailer and see how it does sometime..

Carey

edit.. ps.. Yea lots of morbidity there, but all I can say is if there is a video lets see it..
I see these nasty rv wrecks live and in person all summer anyway from my semi cab.. i can handle it..


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## mike (Dec 17, 2006)

Jim, are u any closer to a decision? anyway what part of the country are u located in, we might be able to steer u to a good dealer

mike


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## jiminny (Dec 26, 2007)

mike said:


> Jim, are u any closer to a decision? anyway what part of the country are u located in, we might be able to steer u to a good dealer
> 
> mike


Mike,

jim-in-ny I would like to find a good dealer close to or within the tri state area. I guess witin a 200-300 mile radius.


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## Eagleeyes (Aug 1, 2007)

We tow with a 2005, 5.7L hemi durango. The trailer is a 26RKS, and I feel is too big for the SUV. Wheelbase is too short, and the suspension is too soft. Need to be REAL careful with it.
We started with a 21RS, and it towed like a dream....now we're at the cliff....

Bob


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