# Future Rv'ing



## djd1023 (Sep 29, 2003)

WIth the price of gas going up and not going back down, does everyone think the days of RV'ing being a relatively inexpensive vacation are over. I filled up my truck last night in anticipation of going camping this weekend and at $2.85, it cost $65.00 to fill the tank. On the way in to work this morning, the same station was at $3.05. I can imagine what it is going to be when I fill up on Monday to head home


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## glennsteers (Apr 25, 2005)

Sometimes it's a matter of perspective...look at the price of gas in other countries!

Global Gas Prices

This is sobering!


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## Mtn.Mike (May 3, 2005)

I'm going to take a "wait and see" attitude. Too much has happened in too short a time to make any hasty decisions about changing lifestyles.

Just my .2 worth. Mike


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## djd1023 (Sep 29, 2003)

Glenn...I'm not concerned with prices in other countries. I'm concerned with what I pay here. I know you were using that as an everything is relative scenario....but somehow it doesn't make me feel any better


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## glennsteers (Apr 25, 2005)

I guess I look at it with an attitude of, "Oh well, I can't change the price of gas or food or beer...so just carry on." I'm probably not a good judge of this because I never, ever check gas prices. I figure that the difference between Station A and Station B are going to be fairly competitive. Could I save a nickel by driving to Station C across town, maybe? To me the "mental real estate" taken up by worrying about something I can't change is not worth it.

For example, my last trip out was to Hersheypark in PA, which is about 110 miles one way. If I got 8 MPG (it's actually a little better) AND gas has gone up about $1 a gallon over the summer AND I'll need about 14 gallons to get there. I'll probably need 30 gallons for the whole trip or an extra $30. In case you haven't checked hotel prices lately, $30 more for a whole vacation doesn't even matter...to me. It would cost twice that to put my dog in a kennel for the 3 days I was gone if I couldn't bring her camping!

Granted a cross country trip or one to Florida (going there in Nov.) will make that amount significantly higher, but it's still MUCH cheaper than flying 7 family members to see Mickey!

Maybe we'll have to cut down on the margaritas??


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## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Here's how I see it. The price of gas/deisel for RVing is the direct impact we see first and worry about most - that affects the out-of-pocket cash we use on the road.

I guess I'm worried about the impact that fuel prices have on the bigger economy. Trucking is a big part of our economic infrastructure that ends up affecting the cost to produce goods. If the cost to produce goes up, the cost to the consumer goes up. Inflation. The common response to inflation indications is to reduce the prime lending rate - oops, we used that up over the last couple years and there isn't any room to do that. In fact the Fed is raising rates (or has in the last couple months).

All of these signs point to the 1970's effects of escalation of gas prices leading to runaway inflation. I've adjusted my investments to move into more secure investments and less risk taking for the near-term while I watch to see what happens. The impact on my RVing is less affected by the direct fuel cost and more impacted by how conservative I am with my cash and savings which would be used on vacations.

For whatever it's worth...

BBB


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## hurricaneplumber (Apr 12, 2004)

In our area, a gallon of milk is $3 and lasts about 1.5 days in my house. It's all in how you balance it out.

Forgot my beer at $5/gallon.


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Gas prices at a local retailer--

Yesterday morning- $2.59
lunch- $2.79
evening- $2.99

This morning- $2.99
lunch- $3.19
Evening- ?????

Steve


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## Fred n Ethel (Aug 30, 2005)

Do most of my camping inside the box(Pa) as my son says. 
He's thrilled when we go beyond the borders.
NJ doesn't count. We are 5 mile away.

Never venture very far for gas price to matter much.

I am glad we when to Florida in June though.

Gas bill ~ $560.00

Still cheaper than airline tickets for four, the
rental car, gas for the rental, and food at restaurants.

Camper still makes sense.

Ralph


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## djd1023 (Sep 29, 2003)

huntr70......to me that's GOUGING!!!!!


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

Actually it is called a free market economy.........Now stations that increase price before receiving a new shipment is a different story. If they are raising prices for old stock before taking on new, I would check out the FTC website.

http:///www.ftc.gov

Unfortunately, we are heading into a period of hyperinflation. The market has been stagnated for far too long. People are now going to assess their needs and wants.

To learn more about inflation and historical numbers go to:

http://stats.bls.gov

The market will correct itself. The problem is we don't know how long it will take. The price increases we are seeing represent diminishing supply. This has been represented by the increased consumption of the Chinese in the past 24 months. Lower supply will command higher prices and only those who really need the product will buy. We are now seeing that. (BBB- $3.27?)







Once supply increases, price will lower in an effort to meet "equilibrium".

The real issue here is that we are going to see increased costs across the board. As Dylan said "These times, they are a changin'". Clothing, building materials, steel, AIRFARE!!!!, bread, milk (you know, the entire market basket).

Boy, I really do sound like an Economist now!









Happy Outbacking,

Tim


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## djd1023 (Sep 29, 2003)

Highlander, I would doubt that huntr70's station is receiving a new shipment every 3 hours, so I'd call it gouging


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

1 station....gouging, 2 stations....collusion, three stations within a mile of each other.....free market economy.

I was coming come from a meeting with the VP of Finance for a Large Chemical Company this afternoon. The first three stations on my main drag were all $2.89. I got to the corner and the Crown Station was $3.55

The MD AG office is looking into this.

If anyone feels that they are being wronged, definately file a complaint with the local AG or the FTC.

Just my $.02!!!!

Remember....What do you call 100 Economists on the bottom of the ocean?

A GOOD START!!!!!!!!























Tim


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## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

We at reconsidering our 10-day Texas trip. We are not considering cancelling it, just how to get there. Flying 5 of us to Austin, Texas over a long weekend will cost money, but you have to look at all factors...like this one:

Vacation pay. Taking 10 days off work for the camping trip version is 6 days vacation time. If we fly Friday - Sunday, I only take one day vacation time (an entire week's pay difference). My company cashes out your vacation balance at the end of each year. If I worked all year without a vacation or sick day I would get an additional check in December for 4 1/2 weeks pay. So in my case, using vacation time essentially cuts the year-end vacation payout.

So if I save those 5 days of vacation, and use the money from the end-of-year payout to offset the airfare, flying is actually much cheaper.

But then you need to think quality time. A quick weekend trip is hardly a 10-day camping trip. We need to make the decision soon, but this is one case where the camping trip would cost more than flying, but camping would last longer and be more enjoyable.

Randy


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

All I know is that on the grand scheme of things, my trip will cost a few bucks more.

Here is how I have broken down this coming weekends trip

48 gallons of fuel (round trip) @ $3.069 = $147.31
Three nights at Seaport Campground (holiday weekend rate) = $150.00
Memories of good times with friends and family = $Priceless

I'll still be camping.

Tim (squared)


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## glennsteers (Apr 25, 2005)

Randy,

It's sounds like your dilemma is more of a vacation pay issue than a gas one, am I right??


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## schrade (May 5, 2005)

I just have made 4 weekends worth of reservations at campgrounds within 45 miles of home for next June and July. All state parks with E&W so even if gas goes to $5 a gallon I am still having quality time with the family at a somewhat affordable price. Just going to change my habits a bit I guess.


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## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

hatcityhosehauler said:


> Memories of good times with friends and family = $Priceless
> [snapback]52938[/snapback]​


Well, the memories are still there whether you fly or drive / camp. And as much camping we have done this year, I am thinking the kids would be excited to get on an airplane for once.

Randy


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## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

glennsteers said:


> Randy,
> 
> It's sounds like your dilemma is more of a vacation pay issue than a gas one, am I right??
> [snapback]52940[/snapback]​


Not entirely...just with the gas prices going up on such a long and far trip, other avenues are being considered. At only 10 MPG towing, that is $600 in fuel for the round trip. Add to that 5 days of vacation time, and the price really jumps. $600 in gas buys three airline tickets to Austin.

Randy


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## glennsteers (Apr 25, 2005)

Castle Rock Outbackers said:


> Not entirely...just with the gas prices going up on such a long and far trip, other avenues are being considered. At only 10 MPG towing, that is $600 in fuel for the round trip. Add to that 5 days of vacation time, and the price really jumps. $600 in gas buys three airline tickets to Austin.
> 
> Randy
> [snapback]52945[/snapback]​


Yeah, but how many nights in a hotel does it buy?


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## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

Luckily hotel rates in Round Rock, TX are pretty good. My inlaws tell me that a Marriot Suites Hotel down there, weekend rate, is around $69 + tax. So I figure $80. Two nights needed.

Randy


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Randy,

Yeah, but then you miss out on staying at the Abilene State Park and spending some quality time with the Walters clan!









Mark


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

djd1023 said:


> huntr70......to me that's GOUGING!!!!!
> [snapback]52931[/snapback]​


Unfortunately, all the stations within a 10 mile drive on that highway are now over $3....from a Mom and Pop station to Exxon and Hess stations.









They are predicting over $4 a gallon until its all said and done.









I have been in a manufacturing environment, and when there is an issue (machine breakage, down time, etc) the actual shortage of product only shows a month down the road. I don't see how a hurricane can effect pricing so drastically over night. There has to be some sort of refined reserve.......

I just don't understand..
















Steve


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## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

Oh no doubt about that, Mark. We also miss out on visiting The Big Texan Steakhouse in Amarillo. Get this...if I eat a 72 oz. steak, I don't have to pay for it!









The really scary thing is...I think I could do it. But would feel REALLY bad afterwards.

Like the time I raced my buddy in a Chipotle Burrito eating contest. I got the whole thing down in 2 minutes, 47 seconds (and won the race), but my stomach "chewed" that thing (since my teeth didn't) for the rest of the afternoon. Oh, that was BAD.

Randy


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## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

My understanding is that they try and keep as little in storage as possible to minimize storage costs and the need for facilities. I've noticed over the years that there are many fewer storage areas and those that remain are smaller. Environmental measures are now so tight that they don't dare spill any so most of the refinement is dialed in to match the demand (my Dad was in this business and he explained this to me so you are getting it second hand).

If the above is true, I can see how a shortage could occur pretty quickly but that doesn't explain the price increases.


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

The gas station 4 miles south of my work.......

1:30 this afternoon.....................$2.999
5:00 this evening........................$2.359

That has to be price gouging!!!!

I am going to ride my bike to work!!!!

Gary


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

djd1023 said:


> Highlander, I would doubt that huntr70's station is receiving a new shipment every 3 hours, so I'd call it gouging


I'm sure there is some dastardly pricing going on...

but if a station paid $1000 to fill its tanks and planned to sell that for $1200 they've made a nice profit. Now when they know their cost for the next fillup is going to be $1600 it's either raise the prices today or shut the doors because they can't buy enough to stay open tomorrow. I know this is simplified to the extreme, but so is the idea that if a station raises it's prices a couple times a day it automatically means they're gouging you.


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## aantolik (Apr 8, 2005)

I don't know where RV'ing is heading, but for right now we're putting the Outback in storage. We've decided not to use any more gasoline than absolutely necessary until supplies return to normal. We're not going to worry about prices going up because they will. Prices will be gouged







. Some people will make a lot of money on this disaster. But, we're just going to pray for all those poor Americans that have been devastated by Katrina.


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## drobe5150 (Jan 21, 2005)

huntr70 said:


> Gas prices at a local retailer--
> 
> Yesterday morning- $2.59
> lunch- $2.79
> ...


i just saw that on the evening news, it is illeagle to do it.

darrel


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## ford56312 (Jul 20, 2005)

hurricaneplumber said:


> In our area, a gallon of milk is $3 and lasts about 1.5 days in my house. It's all in how you balance it out.
> 
> Forgot my beer at $5/gallon.
> [snapback]52919[/snapback]​


I wish my truck would last for 1 1/2 days on a gallon of gas. My milk lasts about 4 days.


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## ford56312 (Jul 20, 2005)

Highlander96 said:


> Actually it is called a free market economy.........Now stations that increase price before receiving a new shipment is a different story. If they are raising prices for old stock before taking on new, I would check out the FTC website.
> 
> http:///www.ftc.gov
> 
> ...


Yes,I agree... Every thingis going up. We are getting new blacktop layed at the school I work at. The price has gone up double because of the oil that is used to make it and to deliver it. Think about it EVERY THING is either made or delivered using some kind of oil product..Gas is only the start...


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

And the retail value of a used (big block)SUV is going down. Might be keeping this one a little longer

John


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## Grandeken (Feb 16, 2004)

Randy
When you get your check for the 4 1/2 weeks pay at the end of the year don't you pay a lot of tax on that amount. My company does that and the first year I cashed out 4 weeks pay on one check Uncle Sam took over 50% I took less than 1/2 of the gross. I have used every hour off that I can get from them now. I don't bank any hours.


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## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

Thought I'd add another thought to the RV or motel decision. I heard that some drug dealers are now using motels for their meth labs. The toxic fumes linger for days even though the smell is masked. I'd rather pay the extra fuel and sleep in my own bed when practical. Besides we've all heard the stories about the motel comforter.


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## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

Grandeken said:


> When you get your check for the 4 1/2 weeks pay at the end of the year don't you pay a lot of tax on that amount. My company does that and the first year I cashed out 4 weeks pay on one check Uncle Sam took over 50% I took less than 1/2 of the gross. [snapback]52989[/snapback]​


Yes, this type of payout is known as a "spot cash" or "lump sum" payment. That means the highest tax rate applies (usually around 40%). But when filing taxes comes around, I get a good portion of that back.

Gas in Castle Rock today is $3.32 for premium. Holy frijoles.

Randy


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## aplvlykat (Jan 25, 2004)

Back in 1979 I worked for Occidental oil in the reasearch division out of Irvine , California and was TDY to Grand Junction Colorado. At that time there were several large oil companies that had reasearch mines and were extracting crude oil from the shale that is locked up in the mountains. I can't remember the exact amount but it was somewhere around 3 billion barrels locked up in shale. Occidental had the price of crude shale oil down to within 3.00 per barrel above the going rate for imported crude. Within a 3 month time frame the goverment stepped in and shut down all mines and ended a job I had worked on for 2 1/2 years. Seems to me with the advances in technolgy the price to refine crude oil from oil shale verses the cost to import oil it may be a good time to reconsider opening up the mines and using our own oil reserves. Kirk


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## luv2rv (Jun 21, 2004)

Gas is out of control in Canada too!

3.79 litres is equivalent to 1 US Gallon.

I paid $1.256 per litre yesterday - that's $4.76 per Gallon

This is nuts!!!
Wayne


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## BoaterDan (Jul 1, 2005)

aplvlykat said:


> Back in 1979 I worked for Occidental oil in the reasearch division out of Irvine , California and was TDY to Grand Junction Colorado. At that time there were several large oil companies that had reasearch mines and were extracting crude oil from the shale that is locked up in the mountains. I can't remember the exact amount but it was somewhere around 3 billion barrels locked up in shale. Occidental had the price of crude shale oil down to within 3.00 per barrel above the going rate for imported crude. Within a 3 month time frame the goverment stepped in and shut down all mines and ended a job I had worked on for 2 1/2 years. Seems to me with the advances in technolgy the price to refine crude oil from oil shale verses the cost to import oil it may be a good time to reconsider opening up the mines and using our own oil reserves. Kirk
> [snapback]53003[/snapback]​


Not to get all political on this thread, but I've come to believe that every president for the last 50 years has understood the strategic value of not touching our domestic oil and that's whey they consistently refuse to do it.

Think about it... when that middle east oil tap starts sputtering, and North America is one of only a few places left in the world with significant oil deposits, what does that do to the world economy, war on terror, etc.?









I used to be on the "develop the domestic oil" bandwagon, but now I think I like it just the way it is for the sake of my kids or grandkids.


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## stapless (Feb 20, 2005)

BoaterDan said:


> aplvlykat said:
> 
> 
> > Back in 1979 I worked for Occidental oil in the reasearch division out of Irvine , California and was TDY to Grand Junction Colorado. At that time there were several large oil companies that had reasearch mines and were extracting crude oil from the shale that is locked up in the mountains. I can't remember the exact amount but it was somewhere around 3 billion barrels locked up in shale. Occidental had the price of crude shale oil down to within 3.00 per barrel above the going rate for imported crude. Within a 3 month time frame the goverment stepped in and shut down all mines and ended a job I had worked on for 2 1/2 years. Seems to me with the advances in technolgy the price to refine crude oil from oil shale verses the cost to import oil it may be a good time to reconsider opening up the mines and using our own oil reserves. Kirk
> ...


ok, gotta throw in my 2 cents. remember, we are not very dependant on 'middle east oil' less than 10% comes form there. still, OPEC is a big driver for the price per barrel adn that is more of our tie to that part of the world.

also, my family is out for 2 weeks - went up the north shore in MN, down through wisconsin and the dells, into illinois, and going back through SE minnesota and NE Iowa. will be almost 1800 miles before done. gas here is 3.29/gallon (paid 2.49 to fill up before we left 1 week ago). figure it will cost alomost $500-600 for gas. camping fees adn some tickets to shows in the dells were $100. food, out to eat a couple times, and camping sites add up to another $300-400. all total, under $1200 to spend 2 weeks with DW and kids!! to me, that's a BARGAIN!! not only that, my kids eat fairly similar to at home, which keeps them happier, and have their own same place to sleep at night, which makes the night much easier and DW and I much happier.

also, have been out 6 or 7 times for short and long weekends over the summer. MUCH cheaper than hotels, and never would have gone out that often without the OB.

All in all, saving a couple hundred dollars or so on gas would be nice, but I WILL NOT be abandoning this hobby any time soon. as you all are aware, the camping has been great for my family and well worth the extra bucks.

sorry, seem to be preaching to the choir.

scott


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## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

If you are going to travel - you are going to pay more.

It isn't so much a question of RVing but rather of traveling. Air fares will stay proportionatly higher than ground travel or the airlines will go bust big time (they are barely marginal now).

So really, it becomes a question of what kind of RVing. Stay around home and do local things or travel and pony up the additional gas cost?

Just some thoughts.

BBB


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## glennsteers (Apr 25, 2005)

We've all been talking about what the cost of RVing is, let me relate my flying/hotel experience in 2002 that led us to become an RV family...

At the time, it was my wife, 13 year old son and 4 year old triplets and I...6 people in total so we needed 2 hotel rooms. We got really great deals on airfare and hotel because it was off season. We all flew down for $1000 total, the hotel was $280 a night ($139x2) at Animal Kingdom Lodge and we spent a little more than a week. 2 days at Universal and 3 at Disney. The whole trip cost over $12,000!

We have not had a real vacation since then until this year. This summer, we've been to Jellystone Campgrounds in Hagerstown, MD, a KOA campground in MD, Creationfest Festival in PA, a week in Ocean City, MD at Frontier Town and Fort Whaley, a weekend at Hersheypark Highmeadow Campground in Hershey, PA! Next week we're going to Morris Meadows Campround in Maryland for the weekend and we're spending a week in Disney at Thanksgiving!

Up until now, even with increasing gas prices, I'm sure that we have yet to surpass that $12,000 figure. We've been able to take our pets (no kennel costs), we've been able to cook many of our meals (more savings), we have our truck for local travel (no car rentals) and we've had the joy of working together as a family setting up camp, breaking down camp, making S'mores, troubleshooting little problems that crop up. In short, we've been really living life together and having a blast doing it.

Next weekend is the Maryland RV Show and I have convinced 3-4 other families from my church to come with us as they've been jealous of our summer exploits. Thankfully, our RV season is slowing down. Let's hope that by next season gas prices start to come back into a more affordable range.


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## 7heaven (Jun 4, 2005)

Glenn, I'm with you! Over Christmas, the 7 of us flew out to California to see my folks. Flew from STL to SoCal to NorthCal then home. Even staying with folks for half the trip, it cost us over $5,000.







That's what drove our OB decision this past Spring. Even if gas is $5, we'll keep OB'ing! (gas is up 80 cents in less than a week here).


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## glennsteers (Apr 25, 2005)

RVing is definitely the way for large families who cannot fit in a single hotel room and will have a large airfare total. One thing that we need to keep in mind is that higher gas prices will soon have an effect on the airlines too. Watch for higher airfares and a high gas surcharge being tacked on!


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## Grandeken (Feb 16, 2004)

We are a RVing couple with 2 hairy kids and we are still going to be RVing for a long time I hope (Green side Up) We are taking more short trips this year that are 5000 mile 4 week trips of the past. It's great to go out west but I am finding nice places within 200 Miles of our house. Our kids are on the own and now come home to ask to use the 5er now and then. All in all it's still the best way to travel.







Ken


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

We were just talking about this today. If gas prices come down by next season, we will plan for a big long trip. If they don't we will stay closer to home. Either way we will be getting out camping as much as we can.

Whether it's a campground close to home or halfway across the country, it's still a good time for our family.

Mike


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

I agree Mike.

You pay for your fun. Right now, gas prices are high. They'll drop. 
For me, the season is over anyway.

Hang in there folks...this is temporary.


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

Jolly,

I HOPE these prices go down too. But, you're right about them being temporary. They are temporarily in the $3.00-$3.25 range. All the experts are saying they will get to $4 per gallon before too long.

The oil companies must think they're in heaven. Profits are going through the roof.

Bill


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## dougdogs (Jul 31, 2004)

cookie9933 said:


> Jolly,
> 
> I HOPE these prices go down too. But, you're right about them being temporary. They are temporarily in the $3.00-$3.25 range. All the experts are saying they will get to $4 per gallon before too long.
> 
> ...


don't forget that OPEC meets this month. They will all want to "cash in" on these higher barrel prices. I predict all OPEC nations will increase output, and prices will drop.

We just need to ride out this wave.

Doug


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