# You Are Welcome!



## Swany (Mar 2, 2006)

Just did a search on the word "belly" and guess what I found. All sorts of us are finding quality problems underneath our OBs. Wow, who would have believed it? I got an 8 page donny-brook going for mentioning it but guess what? I was right, it is not just a radical me but it appears to be a real quality problem! You are welcome for my getting your attention. Love you guys


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## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

When Swany posted earlier about the sealed underbelly fastening problems on his unit, I checked mine. I have self-tapping (or something) screws every 12 inches and are set at least 1" in from the edge. Besides the mess that is likely concealed by the belly cover, I am satisified with how mine was installed.

Randy


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## beachbum (Nov 27, 2006)

I guess it's just accepted that the stuff under there is a mess. If you recall, when I posted pics of my QF install, a number of people remarked about the jumble of wires. I was more interested in screws through tanks and that sort of thing. I wire tied and secured things and then just put the underbelly back. One of those "out of sight, out of mind" things. Looks very clean with the underbelly sealed and secured properly with no sags or droops. I read all 8 pages. I was in the middle of taking possession of a new $1.5mil building and I was appalled at the quality of work. It's everywhere, every trade, profession, craft, etc. The contractor will be correcting/fixing things for the next year. That means I'll be yelling and screaming to get him to do what he should have done correctly the first time.







I still marvel at the way things are done. I just try and not do things the same way. I said all this just to let you know I know what you are talking about. What can one do about all of this?? I am not going re-do all the sub par work others have done. I guess I'll just re-do the stuff that REALLY bothers me.







And, that probably will not be the same stuff that REALLY bothers other people.








david


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

Swany, you strike me as a guy that really enjoys throwing bombs. Your vitriol is apparent. We get it. You found something to complain about and you are riding this pony till it drops. Good for you. Meanwhile, I have dropped my belly pan several times and while their are loose wires underneath, they are in no danger of dragging or being hooked by anything. I have found some manufacturing debris as well but it's hardly the garbage pit you imply.

The thing that has always separated Outbackers from other forums, is the overall tone of the conversation. You apparently don't value that as much as others, but that is your privilege.

Just recently we had a young widow come onto our site, seeking advice about how to tow and operate a trailer. Her husband had died last year and her 10 year old son had come to her, asking if they could camp because it was something they had done as a family, before his Father's passing. Outbackers have not only given her the advice she was seeking, but they have also reached out to her offering assistance in the purchase, towing, setup, and maintenance. They have invited her and her family to camp with them.

I bring this up because she commented on how much she liked our site, and the way we work with people. I suspect she might have formed an entirely different opinion had she seen your earlier posting first.

I replied to your earlier post and said that I thought you had a valid point to make. I only took exception to the anger you displayed. If that is your personality, so be it. I can just ignore you but before I put you on automatic disregard, I thought I would make my point.

Nick "Reverie" Robinson


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## Swany (Mar 2, 2006)

Reverie said:


> Swany, you strike me as a guy that really enjoys throwing bombs. Your vitriol is apparent. We get it. You found something to complain about and you are riding this pony till it drops. Good for you. Meanwhile, I have dropped my belly pan several times and while their are loose wires underneath, they are in no danger of dragging or being hooked by anything. I have found some manufacturing debris as well but it's hardly the garbage pit you imply.
> 
> The thing that has always separated Outbackers from other forums, is the overall tone of the conversation. You apparently don't value that as much as others, but that is your privilege.
> 
> ...


[/quote]I was just commenting that several others have since noted the same problem with their OB and seemed to appreciate the heads up. I don't know how I got from there to widow bashing.


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)




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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

ditto Steve!


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## Swany (Mar 2, 2006)

skippershe said:


> ditto Steve!


You all know that beating a dead horse isn't PC


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Swany said:


> ditto Steve!


You all know that beating a dead horse isn't PC








[/quote]
Just having some fun!


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## LarryTheOutback (Jun 15, 2005)

I've been _very _ patient with this guy, but I've had it now. In looking over the Forum Rules, one of the Golden Rules is "Unnecessary bumping of topics is considered Spam" ... this one has been bumped way too much, apparently just for the enjoyment of the poster. We got the point the first, second and third time.

For those who would like to follow me, here's how you add a user to your "Ignored Users" list. It's a testement to the quality of outbackers.com that he is my only ignored user.
Click on _your _ username where it says "Logged in as: Your Name"
Click on "Edit My Profile" at the bottom of the page
Click on "Manage Ignored Users" under the "Options" section
Enter "Swany" in the "Add new users to your list" section and press "Update Ignored Users".
Goodbye Swany.

Ed


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Swany is funny - he reminds me of elementary school where there was always one kid who loves to tattle and the tattletale goes "nya - nya - told you so!!!" when the teacher finds out about it. Then when called on the carpet about his tattling, he makes illogical statements insinuating the other kids called him things that they did not...and he goes and tattles again! Ahh...the good old days of youth.

Have you ever heard of RV.Net? Birds of a feather flock to...well in your case... to rv.net. Go check it out there. You won't have to put up with people who have a positive, helpful outlook on life doing nasty things like putting you on ignore and posting emoticons suggesting that you are engaging in unpleasant behavior.

-CC

ps...well stated, Nick.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

OK, BOYS! TIME TO PLAY NICE!!!! ,


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## 3LEES (Feb 18, 2006)

I don't get it. I've read Swany's posts and wasn't offended in any way.

We own campers that are NOT top of the line. But they are a great camper for the money. I feel we get good bang for the buck.

I've posted about inferior products on my 21RS. The cabinet hinges suck, the matresses are terrible, others have posted about inferior tires, others about failing skylights. None of those posters were flamed for their discoveries or opinions.

I've got under my camper and looked at the underbelly. It seems to be firmly attached, and I WILL NOT take it down. A quicke flush is not on my mod list. I do not want to have potential future problems by breaking the seal between the camper and underbelly.

That being said, if I did take off the underbelly and found a mess, I would also be upset. I am a construction supervisor and I do not take kindly to sloppy work. My mantra is it takes very little extra time to do the job right the first time.

It seems that Swany is being singled out for speaking his mind. I do NOT think he has broken any Outbacker.com rules. We Outbackers bump more rally threads than any I've seen in this case. Does that mean that those "bumpers" should be punished?

This has always been a great site for exchanging information and "how to" do things with our Outbacks. Swany's photos show everyone just what a organized and clean underbelly should look like. We should be thankful for his efforts rather than flame him for his opinion.

Just my $.02.


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

What Dan said!! You'd be upset, too, if it was your OB, and he hasn't said anything that any of the rest of us have, at one time or the other. 
Also, what wolfwood said, "PLAY NICE!"
Darlene


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

Go read his earlier thread, read this one and ask yourself, "Was This Necessary". For about the 4th or 5th time, I have never disagreed with what he is pointing out, it's just that the tone of the conversation serves absolutely no one.

I opened the underbelly. I have found the wires hanging down. They were not in any danger of falling out or getting snagged. Arguing "Well, what if the pan fell off?" is as valid as asking "Why weren't the coat hangers in my closet cinched down? What if the roof blew off", in my opinion.

I can't deny that there are things about my trailer I don't like or I would have done different. Just wait, I have a huge post brewing right now. But I can guarantee you I am not posting in a way that will be construed as "POd", "angry" or "whiney". Those attitudes serve absolutely no one. What I think Outbackers has always been about is solving problems, not venting your spleen. That's what RV.net is all about and it is why I don't hang out over there.

I am not the arbiter of taste on this site. I don't want to be. Just like other people I expressed my opinion, which I will repeat right now "I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH TALKING ABOUT THE PROBLEM. I JUST OBJECT TO THE TONE". Is your Keystone product a piece of junk? OK, let's talk about it and see if we can make it better. Like I tell my kids, your gratitude shows your attitude. I can't discern from any of the original thread or this thread where advice was read, taken or expected. I do detect that both posts were intended only to point at himself and say "Look At Me! I'm Mad and I Want EVERYONE to Know It!". That is a useless, non-constructive attitude.

Just because you can say it, doesn't mean it needs to be said. If this is such a big problem he needs to contact Keystone and if that doesn't work for him, perhaps it is time to move on to another brand. Hey, I owned a Fiat 850 at one point. I truly understand what it is to buy a piece of junk. In the end I sold it and moved on and have never bought another Fiat. And the last time I looked, Fiat hasn't sold a car in North America since about 1981, partially because of quality issues. Screaming didn't run them out of business. Lack of buyers ran them out of business. I didn't ride up beside other Fiat owners screaming "It's a piece of junk". I doubt you would either because:

1. It's insulting.
2. It's non-productive.

I did take the time to share my mitigation strategies with other owners. That is what we do here at Outbackers. Share our advice.

Nick


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

3LEES said:


> I've posted about inferior products on my 21RS. The cabinet hinges suck, the matresses are terrible, others have posted about inferior tires, others about failing skylights. None of those posters were flamed for their discoveries or opinions.


None of the others have continuely tried to "defend" their angry comments for 8 pages worth of comments or started new topics for the simple fact of provocing others either.

It is not a secret that some of you on 'another' website do not like it here anymore, and try to stir the pot, then go whine about it.
















If you don't like it, don't come back.......simple as that.

I'm soon to the point where I won't be a part of either one of them.









Steve


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Reverie said:


> Go read his earlier thread, read this one and ask yourself, "Was This Necessary". For about the 4th or 5th time, I have never disagreed with what he is pointing out, it's just that the tone of the conversation serves absolutely no one.
> 
> I opened the underbelly. I have found the wires hanging down. They were not in any danger of falling out or getting snagged. Arguing "Well, what if the pan fell off?" is as valid as asking "Why weren't the coat hangers in my closet cinched down? What if the roof blew off", in my opinion.
> 
> ...


X2

What we said has nothing to do with the problems with his Outback - which I think almost universally, everone agreed with him and attempted to assist him in some sort of resolution.

What Nick said has everything to do with the tone of Swany's recent posting which has accomplished nothing but to stir the pot, beat a dead horse and add a helping of anger, negativity and hostility to the dinner plate.

A big reason we joined is that the members do not post with anger, provocation and hostility. Yet, when folks like Nick call Swany on the carpet for doing just that - he gets yelled at? What's up with that.

(ps...Nick, I should have just X2'd your first post instead of adding my own non-worthwhile 2 cents).

-CC


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## Mgonzo2u (Aug 3, 2004)

Dan and Darlene in post 14 and 15 are clearly level headed


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Mgonzo2u said:


> Dan and Darlene in post 14 and 15 are clearly level headed


 Yup I think everyone has made their point clear, and very well. I understand the frustration from all involved from the manufacturing point of view to the tone point of view. In good Outbackers style we should learn what we can from this and move on to the next hot topic. Like Beer!

Seriously though, not to diminish anyones concerns. All are noted by many.

Eric


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## Reverie (Aug 9, 2004)

Mgonzo2u said:


> Dan and Darlene in post 14 and 15 are clearly level headed


They certainly were level-headed. I admired them both for saying what they did. I know Dan and Darlene and consider them friends. When a friend disagrees with me, believe me, it doesn't hurt my feelings. Nobody wants to be surrounded by a bunch of "Yes-Men (or Yes-Woman, as appropriate).

Reverie


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## tomlholmes (Jul 3, 2007)

Hi Swany.







But I read that there may be a Rally in Goshen IN next year for a factory tour. Wondering if that would be a good place to bring up the "Belly" problem. We have only had our OB27RLS out twice, we haven't had any problems. While we are VERY new to rv/tt camping - I have learned so much on the forums here that I feel like I am ahead of the game. Everyone has been so nice, and so helpful. I visit everday to see if I can learn something new.

Now, I really would appreciate it if you guys would "shake hands and make up". I think you all are wonderful people by all the previous posts I have read.









So, please make up, and go back to makeing nicey nice. I don't like to see conflict in my new Outbackers Family.










Thanks!

Heidi


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

Gunsmokesetters said:


> Hi Swany.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

This is going side ways a bit so lets take a time out. I will open it back up in a few days.


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