# Carrier Airv A/c Unit



## NS_Bluenoser

Need some help. I have a 2002 Outback 28BHS that has a Carrier AirV non-low profile ducted unit. I have used the fan only mode many times with no problems. We just got back from a two week camping trip. Last week it got pretty hot and I turn on the A/C. Everything worked fine and I noticed that the fan speed dropped significantly about 1-2 hours of having it on. I thought this was normal as the trailer was cool and I figured it reached the tempeture I had set it at (70 degrees).

A rubber burning smell was noticed inside the trailer. I thought the it might be the belt on the fan motor but found out the fan motor is direct drive (no belt). Eventually the unit would power but the fan would not spin. I borrowed a ladder from the campground and went up on roof (is the roof walkable on the 28BHS?). I removed the cover and got my wife to power the unit from the inside. I spun the outer fan with my hand and the unit started to operate but again at low fan speed (much lower than normal low operating fan speed). There was cool air coming through the ducts but at very low speed.

I have determined through reading through this forum that either the fan motor is shot or the one of more of the capacitors are bad. I am leaning toward the fan motor because the fan will not operate on "fan only" mode either.

Anyone that had this problem that would share their resolution would be appreciated. The local dealer has a replacement fan for about $150. Replacement capacitors are much cheaper. I have found the service manual for Carrier units on this forum that will help me in replacing the fan motor should I try it on my own.

I have not notice any flashing lights on the ceiling unit.


----------



## hautevue

The large and sometimes only, capacitor, is for starting the compressor. Replacing that one will have no effect on the fan. Some units have a second capacitor for the fan--if yours does, then replacing it is a good idea. But smells of burning "stuff" are a bad sign.

Sounds to me like the fan motor has gone around the bend. Unless you need a replacement asap, you probably should try the I'net. Usually saves significant bucks even with shipping. But if you need the fan quickly, grin as you walk into the RV store..They've got the part you need.


----------



## TwoElkhounds

My AC began to make a funny noise while we were at Zion last week, 104 degrees outside, so I began to worry. We needed AC!! I went on the roof and pulled the cover. I ran the AC an noticed the noise was coming from the blower mounted under the plastic casing (not the external fan that you can access with the outer cover removed). I removed the casing (only four screws and a couple of tabs) and found that the plastic blower was cracked and had begun to separate from the metal bushing that mounted it to the shaft. This caused the blower to be unbalanced and it was vibrating. I took duct tape and tightly wrapped the plastic blower to the metal bushing and reinstalled. Problem went away. I will replace the blower when I return home.

I only mention this story since it may be possible that your blower has separated from the metal bushing and is no longer spinning when the AC is running. The heat generated from the spinning metal on the plastic may be causing the smell of burning rubber. Just a thought, and should only take you 10-15 minutes to check.

DAN


----------



## N7OQ

Check or replace the capacitor, it is a dual cap a starting cap for the compressor and a run cap the the fan motor. That cap is much cheaper than a motor and much easer to chance then that motor. Anyway even if the motor is bad you should always change the cap too. good luck


----------



## Tangooutback

I think it is good measure to replace the OEM capacitors with aftermarket unit. I just received a new Carrier to replace the current broken unit, which is five years old. I went ahead and bought a new hard start capacitor to put in the new a/c before I install into the camper. Hope this unit is going to last longer than five years.


----------



## NS_Bluenoser

I am ordering both a fan motor and a new capacitor. No sense not replacing a $10 part while I am at it and potentially save a future headache. I was just going to order a new OEM capacitor. Do you have any recommendations for an aftermarket one. If I get a name and specs I can search ebay for it and order it. The motor is on back order at Carrier (what does that tell you?) so I have some time on my hands before I'll need the capacitor as well.


----------



## Tangooutback

NS_Bluenoser said:


> I am ordering both a fan motor and a new capacitor. No sense not replacing a $10 part while I am at it and potentially save a future headache. I was just going to order a new OEM capacitor. Do you have any recommendations for an aftermarket one. If I get a name and specs I can search ebay for it and order it. The motor is on back order at Carrier (what does that tell you?) so I have some time on my hands before I'll need the capacitor as well.


This is one: http://www.amazon.com/Part-Capacitor-Combination-Operating-Voltage/dp/B000LDPI26/ref=pd_cp_hi_1

This unit does not have the electronic circuitry, but it has much more capacitance than an OEM unit.

I got this unit, which has electronic relay built in. 
http://www.patriot-supply.com/products/showitem.cfm/153429


----------



## NS_Bluenoser

Is this the same thing?

LINK


----------



## Tangooutback

NS_Bluenoser said:


> Is this the same thing?
> 
> LINK


At first look price is $8, that is cool....but wait....shipping is $22.....









At second look, it says solid state but then claiming to be replacement for SSP6, which does not have integrated electronic circuitry like the SSP6E. That is quite vague for me.....particularly where the total cost comes out to be $30, which is about what you get for the SSP6E from Patriot. SSP6E is manufactured by Supco, which is known brand name for capacitor.


----------



## N7OQ

NS_Bluenoser said:


> Is this the same thing?
> 
> LINK


This is a hard start not the same as your cap. It can be added to your compressor starting cap but it will not replace your cap. The capacitor in your your AC unit is a dual capacitor labeled C H F the C is common, the H is the ac hermetic compressor and the F is fan motor. A hard start cap is added to compressor cap in parallel one lead to H and one to C and is used if you have a hard time getting you compressor to start. I have to service manual for your AC unit if you need a copy.


----------



## NS_Bluenoser

I ordered this:

Supco SPP6 Hard Start Capacitor and Relay

Will this replace my current capacitor or does this have to be wired in parallel as well? The company above wanted $20 for shipping as well, so I was trying to save some money since the fan motor is going to cost me $221 plus tax.

Thanks for the manual offer. I have found it on this site and printed it out. The capacitor is going to be here first so I was thinking of putting that it when it comes to see if it fixes anything. I have my doubts though because even though the fan was not operating, I could hear the compressor kick in.

If I end up buying a new A/C unit I will have a spare motor and capacitor.


----------



## N7OQ

NS_Bluenoser said:


> I ordered this:
> 
> Supco SPP6 Hard Start Capacitor and Relay
> 
> Will this replace my current capacitor or does this have to be wired in parallel as well? The company above wanted $20 for shipping as well, so I was trying to save some money since the fan motor is going to cost me $221 plus tax.
> 
> Thanks for the manual offer. I have found it on this site and printed it out. The capacitor is going to be here first so I was thinking of putting that it when it comes to see if it fixes anything. I have my doubts though because even though the fan was not operating, I could hear the compressor kick in.
> 
> If I end up buying a new A/C unit I will have a spare motor and capacitor.


Sorry to say No, this is a add on for the compressor nothing to do with the fan motor. Here is a example of the capacitor you will need. click here 
You can add the hard start too it will help it start especially if you use a generator to run it.

I would not buy a new motor until I'm sure it is bad, the run caps go bad all the time, we will go through dozens of them in a year at work. If the motor spins freely and look good, no burnt or discolored areas on the motor then it is most likely OK.


----------



## NS_Bluenoser

Thanks Bill, I appreciate your assistance. I could not order the capacitor from the link you gave. I guess they don't ship to Canada. I was able to find it elsewhere and I have ordered it. I will try the capacitor first to see if it gets me back up and running. The fan did spin freely when I was on the roof inspecting the unit but I never took the cover off to visually inspect the fan motor.

If the capacitor is indeed the problem, wouldn't it just give me trouble on the starting of the unit? In my case, the unit was starting and functioning normal and then experienced trouble. As well, if I spun the fan manually, the unit would start but not at normal fan speeds. So that begs the questions.

Does the capacitor have any other function other than assisting in starting the fan motor and compressor?

I know the compressor was still functional because even through there was very little fan speed, there was cool air coming through the vents.

I can't see me using a generator with my Outback. Do you still recommend I install the hard start? Will the hard start help me run the A/C on my 15amp house outlet and 15amp service at the campgrounds with nothing else running on electric in the Outback? (i.e. run fridge and water heater on propane).

Thanks again


----------



## Tangooutback

NS_Bluenoser said:


> Will the hard start help me run the A/C on my 15amp house outlet and 15amp service at the campgrounds with nothing else running on electric in the Outback? (i.e. run fridge and water heater on propane).


It probably will start and run the a/c. However, there is also a good chance that at start it barely get enough juice and therefore would shorten compressor life expectancy.


----------



## hautevue

Re running your TT air conditioning system on 15 amp shore power.

The starting load of the compressor is about 18 amps, running is around 12 amps. If you shut off everything in the TT (converter, reefer, hot water heater, microwave, stereo, and so forth) you MIGHT get the compressor to start. You need to turn on the fan only, let it run for 20 - 30 seconds to settle down, and then flip the compressor on.

My guess is that the 15 amp shore power breaker will trip. Most 15 amp breakers will tolerate 18 amps for a second or two, but then it will trip. It's doing just what it's manufactured to do--protect the wiring from power draws in excess of 15 amps (about 1800 watts).


----------



## N7OQ

NS_Bluenoser said:


> Thanks Bill, I appreciate your assistance. I could not order the capacitor from the link you gave. I guess they don't ship to Canada. I was able to find it elsewhere and I have ordered it. I will try the capacitor first to see if it gets me back up and running. The fan did spin freely when I was on the roof inspecting the unit but I never took the cover off to visually inspect the fan motor.
> 
> If the capacitor is indeed the problem, wouldn't it just give me trouble on the starting of the unit? In my case, the unit was starting and functioning normal and then experienced trouble. As well, if I spun the fan manually, the unit would start but not at normal fan speeds. So that begs the questions.
> 
> Does the capacitor have any other function other than assisting in starting the fan motor and compressor?
> 
> I know the compressor was still functional because even through there was very little fan speed, there was cool air coming through the vents.
> 
> I can't see me using a generator with my Outback. Do you still recommend I install the hard start? Will the hard start help me run the A/C on my 15amp house outlet and 15amp service at the campgrounds with nothing else running on electric in the Outback? (i.e. run fridge and water heater on propane).
> 
> Thanks again


The compressor side of the capacitor is used to help start the compressor motor it is a start capacitor. The fan side of the capacitor is a run capacitor it stays in the circuit and allows the motor to run. There are 2 uses for a capacitor in a motor, 1. to help start a motor then it is out of the circuit, 2. a run capacitor that stays in the circuit and allows the motor to run by shifting the phase of the voltage and applying to a motor field winding. When a a run capacitor starts to go bad the motor stops running. The motor will sometimes run for while but the the capacitor will start to break down and the motor stops. It is not uncommon for this capacitor to go bad since it is being all the time the motor in running and gets a lot of abuse. We change them all the time at work, anytime I find a condenser motor having a hard time running or not running at all and spins freely I automatically try the cap first, Ill bet 90% of the time the cap fixes the problem. The motors will run for years but the caps won't. 
Good luck I really hope that is all that is wrong with your unit, but like I said before if the motor is bad you should also replace the cap too. 
Bill


----------



## NS_Bluenoser

Great information Bill, thanks. You protentially have saved me quite a bit of money. We are headed back out the first week of August and I hope to have the A/C back in operation for that trip. I'll replace the capacitor and see if it runs.  While I am in there is there any preventative type things I can do (e.g. spray some silcone on the fan rods?).

Replacing the capacitor seems like a fairly easy job so I think I will attempt it myself. I have the service guide to aid me in the process. The only part I don't like is releasing the charge from the capacitor, but by the sounds of it, it probably won't have much of any charge left in it; I hope!

Does the Carrier unit have a start and run capacitor or is the capacitor a dual function (start and run)?


----------



## Tangooutback

NS_Bluenoser said:


> Does the Carrier unit have a start and run capacitor or is the capacitor a dual function (start and run)?


On mine both start and run capacitors are integrated into one unit.


----------



## N7OQ

NS_Bluenoser said:


> Great information Bill, thanks. You protentially have saved me quite a bit of money. We are headed back out the first week of August and I hope to have the A/C back in operation for that trip. I'll replace the capacitor and see if it runs. While I am in there is there any preventative type things I can do (e.g. spray some silcone on the fan rods?).
> 
> Replacing the capacitor seems like a fairly easy job so I think I will attempt it myself. I have the service guide to aid me in the process. The only part I don't like is releasing the charge from the capacitor, but by the sounds of it, it probably won't have much of any charge left in it; I hope!
> 
> Does the Carrier unit have a start and run capacitor or is the capacitor a dual function (start and run)?


Mine is a dual cap in one case. Not a big deal discharging it, a screw driver will do the trick short F to C and H to C. Of course always make sure you are unplugged from shore power. Let us know how it works out and I will keep my fingers crossed it just the cap.


----------



## NS_Bluenoser

Bill,

Got the capacitor today. Went up on the roof to install it. When I took the hood and inside fan cover off I didn't notice where the capacitor was stored. I saw related letters on the cap on top of the compressor and thought it was stored in the compressor itself







. I go to take that cap off and break the nut off







!! I was just going to tape the plastic cap back on with electrical tape but I don't know how hot the compressor gets. Will it melt the tape?

So I go back to the manual and trace the wires to the front of the unit. I see the schematic showing wires going to the capacitor thinking this must be it. I open the box and sure enough the capacitors is there. I attempt to discharge the capacitor with a screwdriver and get nothing. No charge left in it (a good sign!!). I take note what wires are connected to what terminal and unhook them. I hook the wires to the new capacitor and place back in metal box. I get my wife to come out and plug in the trailer and hook the battery back up. I tell her to try the unit on fan only first. She tries it and nothing! I exchange a few pleasantries in my head. I finished reinstalling the box that holds the capacitor and get down off the roof. I go inside trailer and try it again myself, nothing. I open the converter in the trailer and notice the breaker is tripped. I am not sure if I turned it off when I was having trouble or it tripped on its own when the unit was having problems. I reset the breaker and try the unit again - fan comes on!!! I let the fan only run for a few minutes and then switched it to cool. A few seconds delay and compressor fires up! Back in business and sitting in a cool trailer as I type )). Bill, you save me quite a bit of money, a big thanks to you







<=== there's rum in that cup!!!

I did get that Supco hard start as well. I didn't install it because I did not know what two terminals to put it on. I assume it would be the compressor and ground (the two other than fan)? Do I really need to install it? I can't see me ever running on a generator. Is there any other advantage to having the hard start?

Thanks again!!!


----------



## N7OQ

NS_Bluenoser said:


> Bill,
> 
> Got the capacitor today. Went up on the roof to install it. When I took the hood and inside fan cover off I didn't notice where the capacitor was stored. I saw related letters on the cap on top of the compressor and thought it was stored in the compressor itself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I go to take that cap off and break the nut off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !! I was just going to tape the plastic cap back on with electrical tape but I don't know how hot the compressor gets. Will it melt the tape?
> 
> So I go back to the manual and trace the wires to the front of the unit. I see the schematic showing wires going to the capacitor thinking this must be it. I open the box and sure enough the capacitors is there. I attempt to discharge the capacitor with a screwdriver and get nothing. No charge left in it (a good sign!!). I take note what wires are connected to what terminal and unhook them. I hook the wires to the new capacitor and place back in metal box. I get my wife to come out and plug in the trailer and hook the battery back up. I tell her to try the unit on fan only first. She tries it and nothing! I exchange a few pleasantries in my head. I finished reinstalling the box that holds the capacitor and get down off the roof. I go inside trailer and try it again myself, nothing. I open the converter in the trailer and notice the breaker is tripped. I am not sure if I turned it off when I was having trouble or it tripped on its own when the unit was having problems. I reset the breaker and try the unit again - fan comes on!!! I let the fan only run for a few minutes and then switched it to cool. A few seconds delay and compressor fires up! Back in business and sitting in a cool trailer as I type )). Bill, you save me quite a bit of money, a big thanks to you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <=== there's rum in that cup!!!
> 
> I did get that Supco hard start as well. I didn't install it because I did not know what two terminals to put it on. I assume it would be the compressor and ground (the two other than fan)? Do I really need to install it? I can see me ever running on a generator. Is there any other advantage to having the hard start?
> 
> Thanks again!!!


Hi NS_Bluenoser,
So glad it worked OK for you and glad to help as much as I'm able to. I hate to see someone pay for something they don't need. Sorry you broke a screw in the compressor, I think you would be OK with some tape on it.

As for the Hard start it is really up to you, I have one that I have never installed it, my Generator will run my AC unit OK so doubt I will ever install it but I keep it handy in case I might need it. You can always sell it on Ebay and get back some of your money or just keep and if your unit has problems starting on a generator then install it. The hard start helps get the quick snap start and the quicker you get it to start the better since most generators don't have enough reserve power to handle a locked rotor. Oh yeah the Hard start connects to H and C H is compressor and C is common.

So Sir hope you don't have any more problems with it and you can just enjoy camping, bet you have some great camping up your way, I would love to some day make to your neck of the woods. I'll bet the fishing there is to die for. 
Bill


----------



## NS_Bluenoser

N7OQ said:


> Bill,
> 
> Got the capacitor today. Went up on the roof to install it. When I took the hood and inside fan cover off I didn't notice where the capacitor was stored. I saw related letters on the cap on top of the compressor and thought it was stored in the compressor itself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I go to take that cap off and break the nut off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !! I was just going to tape the plastic cap back on with electrical tape but I don't know how hot the compressor gets. Will it melt the tape?
> 
> So I go back to the manual and trace the wires to the front of the unit. I see the schematic showing wires going to the capacitor thinking this must be it. I open the box and sure enough the capacitors is there. I attempt to discharge the capacitor with a screwdriver and get nothing. No charge left in it (a good sign!!). I take note what wires are connected to what terminal and unhook them. I hook the wires to the new capacitor and place back in metal box. I get my wife to come out and plug in the trailer and hook the battery back up. I tell her to try the unit on fan only first. She tries it and nothing! I exchange a few pleasantries in my head. I finished reinstalling the box that holds the capacitor and get down off the roof. I go inside trailer and try it again myself, nothing. I open the converter in the trailer and notice the breaker is tripped. I am not sure if I turned it off when I was having trouble or it tripped on its own when the unit was having problems. I reset the breaker and try the unit again - fan comes on!!! I let the fan only run for a few minutes and then switched it to cool. A few seconds delay and compressor fires up! Back in business and sitting in a cool trailer as I type )). Bill, you save me quite a bit of money, a big thanks to you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <=== there's rum in that cup!!!
> 
> I did get that Supco hard start as well. I didn't install it because I did not know what two terminals to put it on. I assume it would be the compressor and ground (the two other than fan)? Do I really need to install it? I can see me ever running on a generator. Is there any other advantage to having the hard start?
> 
> Thanks again!!!


Hi NS_Bluenoser,
So glad it worked OK for you and glad to help as much as I'm able to. I hate to see someone pay for something they don't need. Sorry you broke a screw in the compressor, I think you would be OK with some tape on it.

As for the Hard start it is really up to you, I have one that I have never installed it, my Generator will run my AC unit OK so doubt I will ever install it but I keep it handy in case I might need it. You can always sell it on Ebay and get back some of your money or just keep and if your unit has problems starting on a generator then install it. The hard start helps get the quick snap start and the quicker you get it to start the better since most generators don't have enough reserve power to handle a locked rotor. Oh yeah the Hard start connects to H and C H is compressor and C is common.

So Sir hope you don't have any more problems with it and you can just enjoy camping, bet you have some great camping up your way, I would love to some day make to your neck of the woods. I'll bet the fishing there is to die for. 
Bill
[/quote]

As for the fishing, I haven't done any since my younger days but there is great fishing here both fresh and salt water. Lots of people fish Mackrel (salt water) in the fall and lots of ice fishing (smelts) in the winter. I am not sure how much of a drive it would be for you to here (not sure what State you're in) but with that beast of a truck it would be smooth sailing. I highly recommend Cape Breton Island here in Nova Scotia (breathe taking views) and awesome hiking trails. Lots of hills but your truck would even labor I don't imagine. A Duramax or Cummins Dodge is on my radar but not anytime soon. If you plan a trip you can visit Tourism Nova Scotia online and I believe you can have a visitors guide sent to you.

We are heading out on a 6 nighter on Monday so I got the AC fixed just in time. The nights have cooled but it can still reach 30 degrees in the day. I'll tape up the cap on the compressor; I don't imagine there is ever much stress on it under the AC Hood. It's just to keep water out for corrosion prevention I think. Thanks again.


----------

