# 2007 Dodge 2500 With 6.7l Cummins?



## fshr4life

I absolutely love my Silverado 1500, but after reading how much everyone loves diesels around here, I've been looking at used ones in my local area. I would ideally like to get the 'big brother' of my truck with the Duramax and Allison combo, but I just can't find any of them around here with the new body style that are for sale used or in my price range.

Yesterday, a local Dodge dealer got in a 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 with the 6.7L Cummins. It has 25,000 miles on it and looks almost like new inside and out. I stopped by and took it on a test drive. Wow. It's got some power. And the built-in jake brake is pretty cool too. It meets all of my criteria, including a good price. DW even likes it. However, when I got back from my test drive, the dealer told me that they had to disclose that it's a manufacturer buy-back vehicle. He said he will pull the records today and let me know why it was bought back from the original owner. That's kinda scary.

So I got on-line last night and started reading a bunch of horror stories about people with the new Dodge 6.7 Cummins engines having to take them back multiple times for emmissions problems and other engine-related service. I guess the new particulate filter is the main problem and the check engine light continues to come on. Other folks said that their transmission shifts so hard in tow/haul mode that they don't even turn it on.

My question is, should I walk away from this one and look somewhere else? Does anyone out there have one of the 6.7's and have any advice? I know Cummins makes good engines, but I don't want to trade in my Chevy on something that's going to fall apart on me. Thanks!


----------



## bradnjess

fshr4life said:


> I absolutely love my Silverado 1500, but after reading how much everyone loves diesels around here, I've been looking at used ones in my local area. I would ideally like to get the 'big brother' of my truck with the Duramax and Allison combo, but I just can't find any of them around here with the new body style that are for sale used or in my price range.
> 
> Yesterday, a local Dodge dealer got in a 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 with the 6.7L Cummins. It has 25,000 miles on it and looks almost like new inside and out. I stopped by and took it on a test drive. Wow. It's got some power. And the built-in jake brake is pretty cool too. It meets all of my criteria, including a good price. DW even likes it. However, when I got back from my test drive, the dealer told me that they had to disclose that it's a manufacturer buy-back vehicle. He said he will pull the records today and let me know why it was bought back from the original owner. That's kinda scary.
> 
> So I got on-line last night and started reading a bunch of horror stories about people with the new Dodge 6.7 Cummins engines having to take them back multiple times for emmissions problems and other engine-related service. I guess the new particulate filter is the main problem and the check engine light continues to come on. Other folks said that their transmission shifts so hard in tow/haul mode that they don't even turn it on.
> 
> My question is, should I walk away from this one and look somewhere else? Does anyone out there have one of the 6.7's and have any advice? I know Cummins makes good engines, but I don't want to trade in my Chevy on something that's going to fall apart on me. Thanks!


If it weren't for the "buy-back" part I'd say go for it if the price was right. You're right that part does sound scary. I have the same truck that you're looking at and the only thing I can say is they like to be run. A bunch of round town driving will just about kill it. My daily commute is about 3 miles so I have to make an effort to get it out on the highway every other week or so for about an hour or so. I've read the horror stories as well and can honestly say I love my truck. The worst thing I've had happen is the turbo was getting clogged up and threw a code, the dealer had a cleaning kit for it and its been fine. The only other recalls I've had were an O2 sensor and a steering linkage issue, all similar recalls I had when I owned my Silverado. As far as the trans. I have no complaints. The six speed is one of the reasons I went w/ the 6.7. Occasionally I'll get a rough down shift if I start to accelerate and let off the accelerator. As far as the DPF I don't like it, but we can thank the EPA for that one. Trust me mine will be gone about the same time my warranty is up. I won't say buy it because there could be alot of hidden problems in that "manufacturer buy-back", but remember the people with problems are much louder than those without. Good luck and let us know what the records show.

Brad


----------



## CamperAndy

For me it would not matter if it was a buy back as I am able and willing to deal with issues. There are fixes out there for the historical issues if you want to go after market. The fact that Dodge is selling it and it is not being parted out means that they feel it is fixed.

Often these buy backs are a combination of inept dealer service techs and some really anal customers that think nothing should ever break. Most of the horror stories are from people that do not need a truck in the first place let alone a diesel. If you can post any of the stories that you think would match how you use the truck I would be glad to discuss options to prevent the issue or recommend you not get a diesel depending what it is.

Now you could always find a clean 06 or earlier truck and not deal with the emissions equipment that is causing all the issues but that 6.7 power is sweet.


----------



## HTQM

Another thing to consider is mpg, I get 4-6 mpg more in town than a coworker's 6.7, he hasn't made a long highway trip with it yet to know that mpg. That could be driving style though (DW says I drive like grandpa).
I am a die hard Ford man but when it came to getting a diesel nobody compares to the proven 5.9 cummins. If it wasn't for the really long haul for ya, Dave Smith Motors has a few early '07 and '06 5.9's (used) on their lot.

Dave


----------



## johnp

I would also say go with an early 07 or older with the 5.9..I had one of 5.9 Cummins and loved it simple enigne that of coarse the government had to mess with. The 07 5.9 used a trans brake in tow haul that worked nice to slow it down.

John


----------



## Carey

CamperAndy said:


> For me it would not matter if it was a buy back as I am able and willing to deal with issues. There are fixes out there for the historical issues if you want to go after market. The fact that Dodge is selling it and it is not being parted out means that they feel it is fixed.
> 
> Often these buy backs are a combination of inept dealer service techs and some really anal customers that think nothing should ever break. Most of the horror stories are from people that do not need a truck in the first place let alone a diesel. If you can post any of the stories that you think would match how you use the truck I would be glad to discuss options to prevent the issue or recommend you not get a diesel depending what it is.
> 
> Now you could always find a clean 06 or earlier truck and not deal with the emissions equipment that is causing all the issues but that 6.7 power is sweet.


Agree with Andy. There are some kits out now that are reliable and will delete all that emission junk. They are getting cheaper all the time. But if you live in a place where you have emissions, forget that.

The more that 6.7's are driven around town, the more problems one will see. If you drive highway alot, they are actually pretty good engines.

It will be interesting to hear about the problems it had.

Carey


----------



## fshr4life

I just got off the phone with the dealer. It was bought back for a check engine light. He said that the problem has been fixed or they wouldn't be offering it for sale with the warranties still valid. It still has the remainder of the 3-yr 36,000 mile bumper-to-bumper and the 5-yr, 100,000 mile engine warranty. He also said that the carfax report shows that an accident was reported, but that all of the other systems, frame, etc. check out fine, so it could have just been a minor scrape or something.

I think I might pass on this one. Of course, I could probably also use this as leverage to get an even lower price. I don't know. I'll get a copy of the carfax report from him and see what it says.


----------



## CamperAndy

What is the price they are asking?


----------



## CTDOutback06

I would be leary of it because of the buy back issue, plus obviously there are some known issues with the 6.7. I would look around and see if you can find a 5.9 or keep looking for a Duramax if you want to go that route. Check e-bay, there's usually a lot on there, or craigslist. Patience is the key.


----------



## H2oSprayer

You say that the price is right on it, rather then seeing if they will lower the price, see if they will toss in an extended warranty. I purchased a bumper to bumper 84 month, 100,000 mile Premium Care Ford warranty for mine at a cost of just over $2000.


----------



## jdpm

I did tons of research before buying a diesel. I prefered the Chevy. Never a Ford fan. However, when choosing my diesel pick-up, I went with the Dodge because of the Cummins engine. 
Please chceck out the link a forum for lots of info on the pluses and minuses of the 2007 1/2 6.7L vs the prior 5.9. Early 2007 units had the 5.9 witht he 4 speed auto. Anything built after Jan of 2007 has the 6.7 with 6 speed Aisin tranny.
I have heard of a lot of problems with the new "clean diesels" regardless of makes. However, the Cummins is using the Blue Tec technology and has been less problematic than others.
If shopping for a used, I'd lok for a early 2007/5. Also, keep in themind the only difference between the SRW 2500 and 3500 trucks is the rear spring pack. So if you find a 2500 you really like but want a higher payload, you can always add bigger springs or airbags. Just my 2 cents. Phillip and John

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/3rd...rune=1&f=83


----------



## MJRey

I've had my Dodge with the 6.7 for almost 2 years and have no problems at all with the engine. I think with this motor it really depends on how you use the truck. I only use it for towing the trailer and longer trips. I only rarely use it for running around town. If you're going to be using it for commuting and short trips it's probably not going to work very well for you. If it's mostly for towing and heavier work then it should be just fine. In general the mileage will not be as good as the older trucks, but that's true for all of the newer diesels because of the emissions stuff. The mileage hit for emissions is minimal when towing though because the EGT is high enough for the DPF to burn off the soot without requiring an active regeneration.

I've been reading the various Dodge diesel forums for a couple of years and it really seems that Dodge/Cummins have solved most of the issues. There are not too many complaints reported on the latest 09 models and an 07.5 with the latest computer updates is basically the same. If you want to read more check out these sites.

www.turbodieselregister.com
www.dieseltruckresource.com
www.cumminsforum.com

Since this is a buy back you should be able to get an excellent price but you should check a couple of things. First in some states a buyback will show permanently on the title (it does in California) and this will definitely reduce the future value. If you plan to keep it a long time this probably isn't a factor. Second this would be a good time to negotiate a low price on the Dodge/Chrysler extended warranty. You should be able to get it for about half the retail price or less and this would cover you for any issues down the road for up to 7 years.

Finally when you're negotiating it's worth noting that when dealers get these trucks they often pick them up at auctions where they paid a pretty low price for them. When I was truck shopping one of the Ford dealers I was looking at had a lot of these type of trucks (mostly 6.0 buybacks) and the dealer told me he picks them up at auctions and makes a pretty good profit. He had one that I was interested in but I thought he still wanted too much since it would always have the "Lemon" buyback notation on the title. So if the price is right and you'll use it in a way that's suitable for the motor it's worth considering. Let us know what he's asking and we can give some feedback based on what we paid.


----------



## Joonbee

Hold out for the chevy. Had to say it.

But I would definatley consider the earlier 5.9 and no emmisions. Huntr70 is away right now, but I know he has had great success with his 06.


----------



## Tyvekcat

CamperAndy said:


> For me it would not matter if it was a buy back as I am able and willing to deal with issues. There are fixes out there for the historical issues if you want to go after market. The fact that Dodge is selling it and it is not being parted out means that they feel it is fixed.
> 
> Often these buy backs are a combination of inept dealer service techs and some really anal customers that think nothing should ever break. Most of the horror stories are from people that do not need a truck in the first place let alone a diesel. If you can post any of the stories that you think would match how you use the truck I would be glad to discuss options to prevent the issue or recommend you not get a diesel depending what it is.
> 
> Now you could always find a clean 06 or earlier truck and not deal with the emissions equipment that is causing all the issues but that 6.7 power is sweet.


Yeah, what CamperAndy said. Besides Cummins engine repair facilities will work on them too, so you are not stuck at a Dodge dealer that dosn't have competent Technicians.
CTD

Did you happen to as see what its geared at? 3.73 or something?
CTD, enough said.


----------



## Carey

I have 215,000 on my 06 dually. I did have to replace the rear end entirely because the carrier bearung spun in the housing. I found the carrier bolts not torqued to the recommended 200 ftlbs. So they may have loosened causing this problem. But who knows, stuff happens, and the dodge rear diff is the same exact one chevy uses. AAM 11.5.

I havent had a single engine issue yet, knock on rams horns! Still have the orig water pump and injectors.

The Asian 6 speed tranny is only sold in 45-5500 dodges. The 6speed auto used in the lighter dodges is a 68rfe model made by dodge.

In our fleet, i have met guys with from 200-400k miles on the 6.7 and new dodge 6 speed tranny. Most all have deleted the emissions and have chips. Some have replaced the turbo too to one suited just for towing. These chipped out, deleted emission trucks will out run about anything on the road. Those 6.7s are just monsters when bombed.

I have met guys who have had to rebuild that 6 speed at 100k or so too.. Way more are having them last above 300k than I hear not lasting to 200k.

Go drive that truck. and work that dealer before giving up.. I wouldnt pay more than 18-20k for it.. You never know. Might get it cheaper than that.

Carey


----------



## jdpm

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> I have 215,000 on my 06 dually. I did have to replace the rear end entirely because the carrier bearung spun in the housing. I found the carrier bolts not torqued to the recommended 200 ftlbs. So they may have loosened causing this problem. But who knows, stuff happens, and the dodge rear diff is the same exact one chevy uses. AAM 11.5.
> 
> I havent had a single engine issue yet, knock on rams horns! Still have the orig water pump and injectors.
> 
> The Asian 6 speed tranny is only sold in 45-5500 dodges. The 6speed auto used in the lighter dodges is a 68rfe model made by dodge.
> 
> In our fleet, i have met guys with from 200-400k miles on the 6.7 and new dodge 6 speed tranny. Most all have deleted the emissions and have chips. Some have replaced the turbo too to one suited just for towing. These chipped out, deleted emission trucks will out run about anything on the road. Those 6.7s are just monsters when bombed.
> 
> I have met guys who have had to rebuild that 6 speed at 100k or so too.. Way more are having them last above 300k than I hear not lasting to 200k.
> 
> Go drive that truck. and work that dealer before giving up.. I wouldnt pay more than 18-20k for it.. You never know. Might get it cheaper than that.
> 
> Carey


We use our truck only for hauling our fiver. It otherwise is in the garage. Recently, we researched gettting the Chrysler extended service plan for $1800 that would carry the truck 4 more years up to 60k miles. 
Because of the kind of service reported by most of these trucks owner, we have declined. 
It's true, these trucks do like to be worked more than they like driven around as grocery haulers. 
At any rate, you might consider a manufacturers extended service plan as peace of mind to buying a used truck.
Anyway, good luck. jdpm


----------



## fshr4life

Thanks for all the great info. I'll try to answer the questions that I read:

They are asking $31800, but I got them down to $27000 before I found out about all this other stuff (buy-back and prior accident). At this point, I wouldn't buy it unless I get it for the low $20Ks or less now that I know these other issues. I haven't even really started negotiating with them. I just stopped by to test drive it over the weekend. Ideally, my price range to get a truck is in the $25-27K range or less.

It has a quad cab, an 8' bed and 3.73 gearing. The towing capacity is 12,750 lbs. If I get one of these 6.7L trucks, I plan to mainly use it to tow and I plan to keep it for many years. My wife it due to get the next vehicle, and I don't want two payments, so I'll hang onto this one for at least 10 years. I have a motorcycle now that I'll ride to work when the weather is good and we have another vehicle I can take when it's not. I may do a couple short trips per week but if I get a 6.7 cummins, I'll be sure to not use it as a "grocery-getter" and I'll get it out and run it hard when I can.

I might see if they're willing to bite on a low-ball price along with an extended warranty (and maybe a spray-in rhino liner since they do that at this dealership as well). If not, I'm gonna drop this one like a hot potato and go look for a 5.9L cummins. The 07 versions with the jake brake sound really good. Too bad they don't have the 6-speed tranny on them too. I'm in no hurry here. My Silverado is great and will suit me fine in the mean time. I'll just avoid big mountains towing the outback.

They also have another truck on the lot that was a corporate lease. It's pretty much the exact truck as the one I'm looking at except it's a 2008 with only 6500 miles on it and it's candy-apple red. It looks brand new. They're asking $38000. I don't really like the color that much, but I had them pull a carfax report on that one too and it's completely clean. If I can talk them down on that one, it might be better. Any idea what kind of price I should shoot for on a 2008 quad cab with a 6.7L cummins an 8' bed and the sport package? I don't know what other options it's got because I didn't get into detail with them about it.

Thanks for all your great insight!


----------



## CamperAndy

Low ball them but do not even think about buying a buy back at 30K, even 27k seems high.


----------



## N7OQ

I'd go with the Chevy Duramax and Allison, best Diesel transmission combo out there. One of our I.T guys bought a new Dodge Diesel and it is in the shop more than on the road. Has replaced the turbo twice along with many other problems. Dodge has had a problem with the new emissions standards and just can't get a handle on it but Chevy and Ford have been OK. One of our supervisors had a Dodge truck that would just die for no apparent reason had it in the shop so many times he told them he wanted his money back due to the lemon law, but had to take them to court to get them to buy it back.


----------



## battalionchief3

As a former Dodge tech turned Paramedic some "customers" are never happy or may have caused a check engine light to force a buy back on a truck they could not afford. Don't laugh it happens. See now I don't get unhappy "customers" for more then 15 minutes and I have a box of goodies to subdue unhappy " customer's" ......


----------



## Carey

N7OQ said:


> I'd go with the Chevy Duramax and Allison, best Diesel transmission combo out there. One of our I.T guys bought a new Dodge Diesel and it is in the shop more than on the road. Has replaced the turbo twice along with many other problems. Dodge has had a problem with the new emissions standards and just can't get a handle on it but Chevy and Ford have been OK. One of our supervisors had a Dodge truck that would just die for no apparent reason had it in the shop so many times he told them he wanted his money back due to the lemon law, but had to take them to court to get them to buy it back.


Bill, none of the new emission trucks are as good as they used to be.

You do realize that when a new emission ford diesel has trouble, many times they have to remove the cab to work on it.

Im not going to get into the problems weve seen with the dmax trucks, cause I dont feel like dealing with ya. But they have many emision troubles too, mostly all egr related.

None of the new trucks are what they were.

I spoke with a guy last week who had 650k on a 2005 dmax dually. Had replaced a few inectors and a couple alison trannies, but had few other problems.. Does that make you feel better Bill?









Carey


----------



## Carey

CamperAndy said:


> Low ball them but do not even think about buying a buy back at 30K, even 27k seems high.


yep, 20k is the price Id offer.. Na, 18k...

I bet they bought that truck at auction for 13-14k..

Dealers make more on used than they do new.. Play as hard as they do.

Carey


----------



## N7OQ

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> I'd go with the Chevy Duramax and Allison, best Diesel transmission combo out there. One of our I.T guys bought a new Dodge Diesel and it is in the shop more than on the road. Has replaced the turbo twice along with many other problems. Dodge has had a problem with the new emissions standards and just can't get a handle on it but Chevy and Ford have been OK. One of our supervisors had a Dodge truck that would just die for no apparent reason had it in the shop so many times he told them he wanted his money back due to the lemon law, but had to take them to court to get them to buy it back.


Bill, none of the new emission trucks are as good as they used to be.

You do realize that when a new emission ford diesel has trouble, many times they have to remove the cab to work on it.

Im not going to get into the problems weve seen with the dmax trucks, cause I dont feel like dealing with ya. But they have many emision troubles too, mostly all egr related.

None of the new trucks are what they were.

I spoke with a guy last week who had 650k on a 2005 dmax dually. Had replaced a few inectors and a couple alison trannies, but had few other problems.. Does that make you feel better Bill?









Carey
[/quote]

I agree they are not what they were, they are now better except maybe the dodge but they will eventually get it right. Too bad that guy you talked to didn't take better care of his truck might have gotten 1m with the same transmission and injectors but hey people who have chevy's have a tendency to ride them harder knowing they are the strongest most powerful trucks on the market.


----------



## Carey

lol.. Your a funny guy, Bill.

No Allison last for more than about 250-300k. That allison tranny is the smallest tranny allison makes. Its the 1000 model. The 3000 series allisons arent much better. All the brands auto trannies are now equal to the allison tranny. One thing I dont want to be is the guy having to pay for an allison rebuild.. They are double what the others cost.

How come semis dont use allisons... Heat is why. They use electric shifted manual trannies and call them auto shifts. The next new technology we will see in trannies in light trucks will be electric shifted manuals. Eaton has class 5 and 6 models out now and have plans to make them for class 3 and 4 trucks.

The auto tranny is at its technolgy height right now. The auto shifted manual will soon take over auto trannies. They even have centrifical clutches. So they are what could be considered as much as any auto as a real slushbox auto.

I can tell ya that most all of our trannies last on avg 250k no matter what brand.

Dude we haul rvs for a living, we are about as easy on our trucks as it gets. only loaded 1/2 of the time and pull sub 30 foot rv's prolly 2/3rds of the time. Our engines and drivetrains stay at one temp and last longer than an average truck.

No brand makes it much over 300k on injectors. I have met a good bunch of 2003-2005 dodge guys that got 500k because they are single or double event injectors. My 2006 has a 3 event injector so about 300k is all they are good for. The 7.3 ford can make a good amount of miles on injectors, but no other ford engine makes it much past 100k on injectors. Your chevs are decent but are very finicky with all the other fuel related stuff, like sensors/relays and fuel pumps. Those problems drive our chevy guys so crazy that they will trade there 300k mile trucks with a smile because of the electrical headaches.

Do you realize that 40% of the exhuast gas is recirculated into the new emission trucks. There is no diesel engine that can handle that semi engines included. Introducing exhaust gas into a diesel makes for an early death for the engine.

A simple emission delete kit will make any brand diesel engine have a better life.

How many miles are on your truck Bill? 5000? lol Give it some time and save your pennies if you are planning on keeping that truck past its warranty.. That truck of yours can about break any guys piggy bank if it breaks down out of warranty.

All 3 brands are at a solid equal right now. As soon as we get Urea injection the egr problems will go away, because the urea will react with the converter and the engine will no longer need all the egr junk. They will go back to the pre egr reliability quickly as long as you keep the urea tank full..

The problem with those will be, they will shut down if the urea tank gets empty, so a sign will be needed to hold beside your deadlined truck that says "urea needed please"

I hope you never run up on a emission delete 6.7 out on the highway cause they will just run off and leave you.. I have never riden in such hot rod trucks with the guys with there 6.7's engines allowed to breath.

The black smoke and tire smoke is about equal.. They are a hoot!

Carey


----------



## MJRey

fshr4life said:


> Thanks for all the great info. I'll try to answer the questions that I read:
> 
> They are asking $31800, but I got them down to $27000 before I found out about all this other stuff (buy-back and prior accident). At this point, I wouldn't buy it unless I get it for the low $20Ks or less now that I know these other issues. I haven't even really started negotiating with them. I just stopped by to test drive it over the weekend. Ideally, my price range to get a truck is in the $25-27K range or less.


Okay $31,800 is nuts for a used truck like that. 20 months ago when I bought my truck it was $35.5K with a sticker price of $47K. It's a MegaCab which run a few thousand more than the QuadCabs so I'm sure I could have gotten a similar QuadCab for around $32K new. I would go onto a site like carsdirect.com and build the same truck and see what the going price is for a new one now. Then offer them half of that and it should be about right. I think Carey is right, I doubt they paid over $14 or $15K for the truck so an offer around 18 to 20 would give them a good profit. If you could get it for under $20K it would be a good deal, you can use the money you save to buy the emissions delete kits, for offroad use of course







. Let the truck sit on the lot for awhile and they'll be willing to deal.


----------



## N7OQ

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> lol.. Your a funny guy, Bill.
> 
> No Allison last for more than about 250-300k. That allison tranny is the smallest tranny allison makes. Its the 1000 model. The 3000 series allisons arent much better. All the brands auto trannies are now equal to the allison tranny. One thing I dont want to be is the guy having to pay for an allison rebuild.. They are double what the others cost.
> 
> How come semis dont use allisons... Heat is why. They use electric shifted manual trannies and call them auto shifts. The next new technology we will see in trannies in light trucks will be electric shifted manuals. Eaton has class 5 and 6 models out now and have plans to make them for class 3 and 4 trucks.
> 
> The auto tranny is at its technolgy height right now. The auto shifted manual will soon take over auto trannies. They even have centrifical clutches. So they are what could be considered as much as any auto as a real slushbox auto.
> 
> I can tell ya that most all of our trannies last on avg 250k no matter what brand.
> 
> Dude we haul rvs for a living, we are about as easy on our trucks as it gets. only loaded 1/2 of the time and pull sub 30 foot rv's prolly 2/3rds of the time. Our engines and drivetrains stay at one temp and last longer than an average truck.
> 
> No brand makes it much over 300k on injectors. I have met a good bunch of 2003-2005 dodge guys that got 500k because they are single or double event injectors. My 2006 has a 3 event injector so about 300k is all they are good for. The 7.3 ford can make a good amount of miles on injectors, but no other ford engine makes it much past 100k on injectors. Your chevs are decent but are very finicky with all the other fuel related stuff, like sensors/relays and fuel pumps. Those problems drive our chevy guys so crazy that they will trade there 300k mile trucks with a smile because of the electrical headaches.
> 
> Do you realize that 40% of the exhuast gas is recirculated into the new emission trucks. There is no diesel engine that can handle that semi engines included. Introducing exhaust gas into a diesel makes for an early death for the engine.
> 
> A simple emission delete kit will make any brand diesel engine have a better life.
> 
> How many miles are on your truck Bill? 5000? lol Give it some time and save your pennies if you are planning on keeping that truck past its warranty.. That truck of yours can about break any guys piggy bank if it breaks down out of warranty.
> 
> All 3 brands are at a solid equal right now. As soon as we get Urea injection the egr problems will go away, because the urea will react with the converter and the engine will no longer need all the egr junk. They will go back to the pre egr reliability quickly as long as you keep the urea tank full..
> 
> The problem with those will be, they will shut down if the urea tank gets empty, so a sign will be needed to hold beside your deadlined truck that says "urea needed please"
> 
> I hope you never run up on a emission delete 6.7 out on the highway cause they will just run off and leave you.. I have never riden in such hot rod trucks with the guys with there 6.7's engines allowed to breath.
> 
> The black smoke and tire smoke is about equal.. They are a hoot!
> 
> Carey


Hey I have less than 3000 miles on my truck now and in Oct It will be 1 year old and I might have 3500 by then so at that rate I will be dead before i wear it out. Anyway I drive my trucks until they die then buy a new one so I'm guessing that I will be getting a new truck in about 12 to 15 years.


----------



## Carey

N7OQ said:


> lol.. Your a funny guy, Bill.
> 
> No Allison last for more than about 250-300k. That allison tranny is the smallest tranny allison makes. Its the 1000 model. The 3000 series allisons arent much better. All the brands auto trannies are now equal to the allison tranny. One thing I dont want to be is the guy having to pay for an allison rebuild.. They are double what the others cost.
> 
> How come semis dont use allisons... Heat is why. They use electric shifted manual trannies and call them auto shifts. The next new technology we will see in trannies in light trucks will be electric shifted manuals. Eaton has class 5 and 6 models out now and have plans to make them for class 3 and 4 trucks.
> 
> The auto tranny is at its technolgy height right now. The auto shifted manual will soon take over auto trannies. They even have centrifical clutches. So they are what could be considered as much as any auto as a real slushbox auto.
> 
> I can tell ya that most all of our trannies last on avg 250k no matter what brand.
> 
> Dude we haul rvs for a living, we are about as easy on our trucks as it gets. only loaded 1/2 of the time and pull sub 30 foot rv's prolly 2/3rds of the time. Our engines and drivetrains stay at one temp and last longer than an average truck.
> 
> No brand makes it much over 300k on injectors. I have met a good bunch of 2003-2005 dodge guys that got 500k because they are single or double event injectors. My 2006 has a 3 event injector so about 300k is all they are good for. The 7.3 ford can make a good amount of miles on injectors, but no other ford engine makes it much past 100k on injectors. Your chevs are decent but are very finicky with all the other fuel related stuff, like sensors/relays and fuel pumps. Those problems drive our chevy guys so crazy that they will trade there 300k mile trucks with a smile because of the electrical headaches.
> 
> Do you realize that 40% of the exhuast gas is recirculated into the new emission trucks. There is no diesel engine that can handle that semi engines included. Introducing exhaust gas into a diesel makes for an early death for the engine.
> 
> A simple emission delete kit will make any brand diesel engine have a better life.
> 
> How many miles are on your truck Bill? 5000? lol Give it some time and save your pennies if you are planning on keeping that truck past its warranty.. That truck of yours can about break any guys piggy bank if it breaks down out of warranty.
> 
> All 3 brands are at a solid equal right now. As soon as we get Urea injection the egr problems will go away, because the urea will react with the converter and the engine will no longer need all the egr junk. They will go back to the pre egr reliability quickly as long as you keep the urea tank full..
> 
> The problem with those will be, they will shut down if the urea tank gets empty, so a sign will be needed to hold beside your deadlined truck that says "urea needed please"
> 
> I hope you never run up on a emission delete 6.7 out on the highway cause they will just run off and leave you.. I have never riden in such hot rod trucks with the guys with there 6.7's engines allowed to breath.
> 
> The black smoke and tire smoke is about equal.. They are a hoot!
> 
> Carey


Hey I have less than 3000 miles on my truck now and in Oct It will be 1 year old and I might have 3500 by then so at that rate I will be dead before i wear it out. Anyway I drive my trucks until they die then buy a new one so I'm guessing that I will be getting a new truck in about 12 to 15 years.
[/quote]

Start you a piggy bank repair fund now Bill...

Carey


----------



## Collinsfam_WY

Just a quick note - the 6 spd. auto trans in the 4500/5500 chassis cabs is an *Aisin* - not Asian - although it is true that Aisin is Asian!
















I thought that the Urea injection diesels wouldn't shut down if they run out - they would just derate the motor. If it were say, 01/10, Nathan could straighten all that out for us!







Does anyone else have any other information on that?

-CC


----------



## Carey

Ive heard both Curtis.

In commercial trucks they have to be shutdown as a motor that is derated cant pull nothing and it could be very hard on the engine.

I dont know how they are gonna do it, but an empty truck engine could be derated and be fine. Put a 12000lb load on it and a derated engine wouldnt be good.

The chevy guys have this problem often. For some reason the dmax will go into shutdown mode easier than the other brands. They say, that they cant pull anything and have to park it as soon as they can.

I cant see how the urea engines will be any diffrent. If your towing, you will be setting on the side of the road if it shuts down becasue it runs out of urea.

If your empty, youll be able to get it to a spot to get more.

Carey


----------



## Nathan

The Govt does want you to stop when you run out of Urea, but killing an engine is a safety issue, so they don't want to do that either. Regardless, if you are towing with a Urea system, I'd carry an extra couple gallons in the bed just in case.


----------



## Carey

Nathan said:


> The Govt does want you to stop when you run out of Urea, but killing an engine is a safety issue, so they don't want to do that either. Regardless, if you are towing with a Urea system, I'd carry an extra couple gallons in the bed just in case.


And dont let it spill...

Carey


----------



## N7OQ

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> lol.. Your a funny guy, Bill.
> 
> No Allison last for more than about 250-300k. That allison tranny is the smallest tranny allison makes. Its the 1000 model. The 3000 series allisons arent much better. All the brands auto trannies are now equal to the allison tranny. One thing I dont want to be is the guy having to pay for an allison rebuild.. They are double what the others cost.
> 
> How come semis dont use allisons... Heat is why. They use electric shifted manual trannies and call them auto shifts. The next new technology we will see in trannies in light trucks will be electric shifted manuals. Eaton has class 5 and 6 models out now and have plans to make them for class 3 and 4 trucks.
> 
> The auto tranny is at its technolgy height right now. The auto shifted manual will soon take over auto trannies. They even have centrifical clutches. So they are what could be considered as much as any auto as a real slushbox auto.
> 
> I can tell ya that most all of our trannies last on avg 250k no matter what brand.
> 
> Dude we haul rvs for a living, we are about as easy on our trucks as it gets. only loaded 1/2 of the time and pull sub 30 foot rv's prolly 2/3rds of the time. Our engines and drivetrains stay at one temp and last longer than an average truck.
> 
> No brand makes it much over 300k on injectors. I have met a good bunch of 2003-2005 dodge guys that got 500k because they are single or double event injectors. My 2006 has a 3 event injector so about 300k is all they are good for. The 7.3 ford can make a good amount of miles on injectors, but no other ford engine makes it much past 100k on injectors. Your chevs are decent but are very finicky with all the other fuel related stuff, like sensors/relays and fuel pumps. Those problems drive our chevy guys so crazy that they will trade there 300k mile trucks with a smile because of the electrical headaches.
> 
> Do you realize that 40% of the exhuast gas is recirculated into the new emission trucks. There is no diesel engine that can handle that semi engines included. Introducing exhaust gas into a diesel makes for an early death for the engine.
> 
> A simple emission delete kit will make any brand diesel engine have a better life.
> 
> How many miles are on your truck Bill? 5000? lol Give it some time and save your pennies if you are planning on keeping that truck past its warranty.. That truck of yours can about break any guys piggy bank if it breaks down out of warranty.
> 
> All 3 brands are at a solid equal right now. As soon as we get Urea injection the egr problems will go away, because the urea will react with the converter and the engine will no longer need all the egr junk. They will go back to the pre egr reliability quickly as long as you keep the urea tank full..
> 
> The problem with those will be, they will shut down if the urea tank gets empty, so a sign will be needed to hold beside your deadlined truck that says "urea needed please"
> 
> I hope you never run up on a emission delete 6.7 out on the highway cause they will just run off and leave you.. I have never riden in such hot rod trucks with the guys with there 6.7's engines allowed to breath.
> 
> The black smoke and tire smoke is about equal.. They are a hoot!
> 
> Carey


Hey I have less than 3000 miles on my truck now and in Oct It will be 1 year old and I might have 3500 by then so at that rate I will be dead before i wear it out. Anyway I drive my trucks until they die then buy a new one so I'm guessing that I will be getting a new truck in about 12 to 15 years.
[/quote]

Start you a piggy bank repair fund now Bill...

Carey
[/quote]

Sorry Carey but I bought a Chevy not a Dodge so I don't need a repair funds, the chevy is like the Bunny keeps going and going and going. So just out of curiosity how much do you put in your repair fund every month?


----------



## Carey

lol

You make me laugh Bill.

Carey


----------



## sleecjr

My buddy works for Dodge. He has told me the check engine light problem is about the oil. If you dont drive the truck very far most of the time, the particulate filter does not get hot enough to work. It wont remove the junk from the oil and triggers the light wanting you to change the oil. If you drive it more than 10 miles or tow with it, you should not have the problem.


----------



## fshr4life

sleecjr said:


> My buddy works for Dodge. He has told me the check engine light problem is about the oil. If you dont drive the truck very far most of the time, the particulate filter does not get hot enough to work. It wont remove the junk from the oil and triggers the light wanting you to change the oil. If you drive it more than 10 miles or tow with it, you should not have the problem.


Thanks. That's good to know. The guy who had this truck originally lived right outside New York City and probably didn't drive it very far at any one time I would guess. That's probably why he had the check engine light issue. I think I'll pursue the truck to see if I can get a good deal.

I got the case number for the accident that the truck was in off of the Carfax report and paid $20 to pull the police report. It was a fender-bender on the front right side that happened at a stop light when someone tried to turn in front of the truck from a non-turning lane. That's good because there shouldn't have been any structural damage to the truck - maybe just the bumper and front right quarterpanel. The other car was listed as a Toyota sedan, so I'm imagining it got the worse end of the deal.

I'm going to wait a day or two and then make a low ball offer and see what the dealer says. I should have some pretty good leverage with the buyback and the accident on this truck's record. If they don't take it, no big deal, but it's worth a shot.


----------



## Carey

fshr4life said:


> My buddy works for Dodge. He has told me the check engine light problem is about the oil. If you dont drive the truck very far most of the time, the particulate filter does not get hot enough to work. It wont remove the junk from the oil and triggers the light wanting you to change the oil. If you drive it more than 10 miles or tow with it, you should not have the problem.


Thanks. That's good to know. The guy who had this truck originally lived right outside New York City and probably didn't drive it very far at any one time I would guess. That's probably why he had the check engine light issue. I think I'll pursue the truck to see if I can get a good deal.

I got the case number for the accident that the truck was in off of the Carfax report and paid $20 to pull the police report. It was a fender-bender on the front right side that happened at a stop light when someone tried to turn in front of the truck from a non-turning lane. That's good because there shouldn't have been any structural damage to the truck - maybe just the bumper and front right quarterpanel. The other car was listed as a Toyota sedan, so I'm imagining it got the worse end of the deal.

I'm going to wait a day or two and then make a low ball offer and see what the dealer says. I should have some pretty good leverage with the buyback and the accident on this truck's record. If they don't take it, no big deal, but it's worth a shot.
[/quote]

Good luck fisher, you got nothin to lose.

Carey


----------



## N7OQ

sleecjr said:


> My buddy works for Dodge. He has told me the check engine light problem is about the oil. If you dont drive the truck very far most of the time, the particulate filter does not get hot enough to work. It wont remove the junk from the oil and triggers the light wanting you to change the oil. If you drive it more than 10 miles or tow with it, you should not have the problem.


This is what I have experenced with my truck the display came on twice saying DPF needs cleaning see manual and the manual says to drive about 20 miles above 30 mph until the display goea away. Both times it cleared within 10 miles so now I just make sure I do a 10 mile drive on the highway 10 each way everyother week and it now never comes on.


----------



## bradnjess

Hey Carey, all of the looking around online I've done it seems alot of guys are doing the dpf delete, egr block, and adding an Edge programer to clear the codes on start up. Is this what you see most guys doing that you've run into. What might one expect to pay to get their 6.7 breathing freely. I need to to start saving up for this as I feel I may be killing my 6.7 prematurely due a lot of in town driving coupled with all the emissions crap. Thanks,

Brad


----------



## N7OQ

bradnjess said:


> Hey Carey, all of the looking around online I've done it seems alot of guys are doing the dpf delete, egr block, and adding an Edge programer to clear the codes on start up. Is this what you see most guys doing that you've run into. What might one expect to pay to get their 6.7 breathing freely. I need to to start saving up for this as I feel I may be killing my 6.7 prematurely due a lot of in town driving coupled with all the emissions crap. Thanks,
> 
> Brad


From what I have read it is illegal to remove it, in face a federal offence. I had though about do it but living here in California where big brother is watching you and they stop you one the road and do spot checks would have me busted in no time. If I lived in a normal state I might seriously think about it.


----------



## bradnjess

N7OQ said:


> If I lived in a normal state I might seriously think about it.


I know what you mean! So far here in SE Virginia we're ok, no emissions checks yet. But the Northern Virginia / DC nonsense is creeping south at a steady pace.









Brad


----------



## Collinsfam_WY

Brad - I followed the Cummins engine closely when it was released in '07 as 2010 emissions compliant.

Something everyone should bear in mind is that the Dmax and PStroke are not 2010 compliant and both will have even more changes coming to them. Since the PStroke is going away (shhh!) its' replacement will have to bear the brunt of the upcoming emissions standards. The Isuzu motor - I am not familiar with what direction they will take with it.

The Cummins is there today and many of the problems you hear about exhaust related malfunctions are because of it. The Isuzu and International motors are not much different in that respect.

I have read of bunches of guys doing DPF deletes, EGR deletes and adding a programmer. This typically gains the trucks a bunch of mpg and some power as well. I would imagine you would extend the life of that big straight 6 too. I suggest that you look at cumminsforum.com and check out the 6.7 section. You will find a bunch of answers to your questions there from guys who have done what you are considering.

When I was considering the Cummins option, I became aware that I would not have one of these trucks unless I did the dpf/egr delete and the programmer to clear codes. I wasn't willing to part with the cash to do that at the time so I started looking for V10's.

-CC


----------



## Airboss

bradnjess said:


> Hey Carey, all of the looking around online I've done it seems alot of guys are doing the dpf delete, egr block, and adding an Edge programer to clear the codes on start up. Is this what you see most guys doing that you've run into. What might one expect to pay to get their 6.7 breathing freely. I need to to start saving up for this as I feel I may be killing my 6.7 prematurely due a lot of in town driving coupled with all the emissions crap. Thanks,
> 
> Brad


I'm right there with you, Brad. Currently waiting for clarification on WA laws and then for the basic 3/36 part of my warranty to expire. I've done some reading on the typical forums about these things and, although it doesn't seem to require a degree in rocket surgery, it's definately above my skill level. My research indicates that it's going to be about $2500 in parts (DPF/EGR/Programmer) and probably another $2-300 to the mechanic. I'm slowly building up my savings!


----------



## Carey

bradnjess said:


> Hey Carey, all of the looking around online I've done it seems alot of guys are doing the dpf delete, egr block, and adding an Edge programer to clear the codes on start up. Is this what you see most guys doing that you've run into. What might one expect to pay to get their 6.7 breathing freely. I need to to start saving up for this as I feel I may be killing my 6.7 prematurely due a lot of in town driving coupled with all the emissions crap. Thanks,
> 
> Brad


Now I dont know the exact deal with all the part numbers, but yep I know most use the Edge. They keep all the plumbing intact. They gut the dpf by either cutting it off and splitting it to remove the guts, or take it off and use a rod with a sledge and pound all the guts out. Then they use dummy sensors. From the outside the truck looks factory.

Several of the guys have been dot'd in Cali, and the guys looking at it werent smart enough to figure it out. Pretty normal for Cali dot guys.. lol.

If you do some research on the forums guys will tell exactly how to make everything look legal.

So dont even worry about the feds, because the only way they would ever know is by plugging a sniffer into the tailpipe. They have no way of doing that.

If your local emissions testing place only does a visual they will pass you right thru. Fewer states are even doing sniffer tests anymore, so most likely anyone could do this and never even give a 2nd thought about it.

I would bet in a year or two there will be no actual working dodge dpf's even left. Everyone is doing the delete kit I know.

The cost is coming down quickly. I talked to a guy last week and he said he spent about 1500 to do it himself.

The fuel mpg will go up over 20 empty and the power goes way up. All the dpf delete kits have the bugs worked out of them now. I can tell you there is not another diesel pick up engine that will even keep up with the 6.7 after its allowed to breath. Maybe if they have some big money in there trucks they'd keep up you, but thata the only way.

I wouldnt own one either unless mine was deleted too.

Carey


----------



## Carey

collinsfam_tx said:


> Brad - I followed the Cummins engine closely when it was released in '07 as 2010 emissions compliant.
> 
> Something everyone should bear in mind is that the Dmax and PStroke are not 2010 compliant and both will have even more changes coming to them. Since the PStroke is going away (shhh!) its' replacement will have to bear the brunt of the upcoming emissions standards. The Isuzu motor - I am not familiar with what direction they will take with it.
> 
> The Cummins is there today and many of the problems you hear about exhaust related malfunctions are because of it. The Isuzu and International motors are not much different in that respect.
> 
> I have read of bunches of guys doing DPF deletes, EGR deletes and adding a programmer. This typically gains the trucks a bunch of mpg and some power as well. I would imagine you would extend the life of that big straight 6 too. I suggest that you look at cumminsforum.com and check out the 6.7 section. You will find a bunch of answers to your questions there from guys who have done what you are considering.
> 
> When I was considering the Cummins option, I became aware that I would not have one of these trucks unless I did the dpf/egr delete and the programmer to clear codes. I wasn't willing to part with the cash to do that at the time so I started looking for V10's.
> 
> -CC


Ive read that both gm and ford are going to Urea. Dodge will stay with the dpf, but they are supposed to be making it harder to use aftermarket programmers.

I know gm and ford are doing the same. They are supposed to make there ecms locked and not able to be reprogramed or messed with.

But we all know that will be short lived as the programmer companies can figure what they have done pretty easy. And if they cant figure them out, they will just start selling us new hot rod ecms to replace the factory ecms..

Its a game of cat and mouse anymore.

Carey


----------



## bradnjess

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Hey Carey, all of the looking around online I've done it seems alot of guys are doing the dpf delete, egr block, and adding an Edge programer to clear the codes on start up. Is this what you see most guys doing that you've run into. What might one expect to pay to get their 6.7 breathing freely. I need to to start saving up for this as I feel I may be killing my 6.7 prematurely due a lot of in town driving coupled with all the emissions crap. Thanks,
> 
> Brad


Now I dont know the exact deal with all the part numbers, but yep I know most use the Edge. They keep all the plumbing intact. They gut the dpf by either cutting it off and splitting it to remove the guts, or take it off and use a rod with a sledge and pound all the guts out. Then they use dummy sensors. From the outside the truck looks factory.

Several of the guys have been dot'd in Cali, and the guys looking at it werent smart enough to figure it out. Pretty normal for Cali dot guys.. lol.

If you do some research on the forums guys will tell exactly how to make everything look legal.

So dont even worry about the feds, because the only way they would ever know is by plugging a sniffer into the tailpipe. They have no way of doing that.

If your local emissions testing place only does a visual they will pass you right thru. Fewer states are even doing sniffer tests anymore, so most likely anyone could do this and never even give a 2nd thought about it.

I would bet in a year or two there will be no actual working dodge dpf's even left. Everyone is doing the delete kit I know.

The cost is coming down quickly. I talked to a guy last week and he said he spent about 1500 to do it himself.

The fuel mpg will go up over 20 empty and the power goes way up. All the dpf delete kits have the bugs worked out of them now. I can tell you there is not another diesel pick up engine that will even keep up with the 6.7 after its allowed to breath. Maybe if they have some big money in there trucks they'd keep up you, but thata the only way.

I wouldnt own one either unless mine was deleted too.

Carey
[/quote]

Great info Carey, thanks. It makes sense to gut the dpf instead of the delete pipe for visual inspections. The closest thing to emissions testing here is a rag over the tailpipe and look for leaks. Just wondering, are these guys leaving the catalytic converter in place or straight piping from the turbo back? I'd imagine thats where I might get in to a little more trouble. Thanks, I'll keep doing my research while my pennies keep adding up.









Brad


----------



## Carey

Too bad I couldnt talk one of these 6.7 dpf delete guys around here to go find Bills truck and paint that white truck of his a nice charcoal color with there black smoke.. hehe..

Couldnt resist........









Carey


----------



## Carey

bradnjess said:


> Hey Carey, all of the looking around online I've done it seems alot of guys are doing the dpf delete, egr block, and adding an Edge programer to clear the codes on start up. Is this what you see most guys doing that you've run into. What might one expect to pay to get their 6.7 breathing freely. I need to to start saving up for this as I feel I may be killing my 6.7 prematurely due a lot of in town driving coupled with all the emissions crap. Thanks,
> 
> Brad


Now I dont know the exact deal with all the part numbers, but yep I know most use the Edge. They keep all the plumbing intact. They gut the dpf by either cutting it off and splitting it to remove the guts, or take it off and use a rod with a sledge and pound all the guts out. Then they use dummy sensors. From the outside the truck looks factory.

Several of the guys have been dot'd in Cali, and the guys looking at it werent smart enough to figure it out. Pretty normal for Cali dot guys.. lol.

If you do some research on the forums guys will tell exactly how to make everything look legal.

So dont even worry about the feds, because the only way they would ever know is by plugging a sniffer into the tailpipe. They have no way of doing that.

If your local emissions testing place only does a visual they will pass you right thru. Fewer states are even doing sniffer tests anymore, so most likely anyone could do this and never even give a 2nd thought about it.

I would bet in a year or two there will be no actual working dodge dpf's even left. Everyone is doing the delete kit I know.

The cost is coming down quickly. I talked to a guy last week and he said he spent about 1500 to do it himself.

The fuel mpg will go up over 20 empty and the power goes way up. All the dpf delete kits have the bugs worked out of them now. I can tell you there is not another diesel pick up engine that will even keep up with the 6.7 after its allowed to breath. Maybe if they have some big money in there trucks they'd keep up you, but thata the only way.

I wouldnt own one either unless mine was deleted too.

Carey
[/quote]

Great info Carey, thanks. It makes sense to gut the dpf instead of the delete pipe for visual inspections. The closest thing to emissions testing here is a rag over the tailpipe and look for leaks. Just wondering, are these guys leaving the catalytic converter in place or straight piping from the turbo back? I'd imagine thats where I might get in to a little more trouble. Thanks, I'll keep doing my research while my pennies keep adding up.









Brad
[/quote]

They gut everything out, cat too. They smooth out the welds and paint everything black with hi temp paint after they weld everything back together. Most run a lil MBRP muffler too..


----------



## N7OQ

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Too bad I couldnt talk one of these 6.7 dpf delete guys around here to go find Bills truck and paint that white truck of his a nice charcoal color with there black smoke.. hehe..
> 
> Couldnt resist........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carey


So with that delete kit installed it will then shoot black smoke a couple of thousand feet in front of their truck? How do they see?


----------



## N7OQ

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Hey Carey, all of the looking around online I've done it seems alot of guys are doing the dpf delete, egr block, and adding an Edge programer to clear the codes on start up. Is this what you see most guys doing that you've run into. What might one expect to pay to get their 6.7 breathing freely. I need to to start saving up for this as I feel I may be killing my 6.7 prematurely due a lot of in town driving coupled with all the emissions crap. Thanks,
> 
> Brad


Now I dont know the exact deal with all the part numbers, but yep I know most use the Edge. They keep all the plumbing intact. They gut the dpf by either cutting it off and splitting it to remove the guts, or take it off and use a rod with a sledge and pound all the guts out. Then they use dummy sensors. From the outside the truck looks factory.

Several of the guys have been dot'd in Cali, and the guys looking at it werent smart enough to figure it out. Pretty normal for Cali dot guys.. lol.

If you do some research on the forums guys will tell exactly how to make everything look legal.

So dont even worry about the feds, because the only way they would ever know is by plugging a sniffer into the tailpipe. They have no way of doing that.

If your local emissions testing place only does a visual they will pass you right thru. Fewer states are even doing sniffer tests anymore, so most likely anyone could do this and never even give a 2nd thought about it.

I would bet in a year or two there will be no actual working dodge dpf's even left. Everyone is doing the delete kit I know.

The cost is coming down quickly. I talked to a guy last week and he said he spent about 1500 to do it himself.

The fuel mpg will go up over 20 empty and the power goes way up. All the dpf delete kits have the bugs worked out of them now. I can tell you there is not another diesel pick up engine that will even keep up with the 6.7 after its allowed to breath. Maybe if they have some big money in there trucks they'd keep up you, but thata the only way.

I wouldnt own one either unless mine was deleted too.

Carey
[/quote]

Great info Carey, thanks. It makes sense to gut the dpf instead of the delete pipe for visual inspections. The closest thing to emissions testing here is a rag over the tailpipe and look for leaks. Just wondering, are these guys leaving the catalytic converter in place or straight piping from the turbo back? I'd imagine thats where I might get in to a little more trouble. Thanks, I'll keep doing my research while my pennies keep adding up.









Brad
[/quote]

They gut everything out, cat too. They smooth out the welds and paint everything black with hi temp paint after they weld everything back together. Most run a lil MBRP muffler too..
[/quote]

I wonder if any Californians have done the delete thing on their trucks. California has not done smog on Diesels in the past so I wonder if they are doing them with the new ones? Guess I will have check that out. If I lived in a good state I would do it but it scares me here with all the nazis around here.


----------



## MJRey

CA is supposed to start diesel emissions testing on all 1998 and newer diesel vehicles. No dates for starting this have been published yet but probably a year or two after the 2010 emissions requirements are in place. If it's like our cars it's done every 2 years starting after the vehicle is 4 years old. I've looked at all of the steps to do this and it really wouldn't be too hard to take the stuff off and then put it back on for the test every 2 years. I don't think I'd worry about a roadside inspection as I've never heard of such a thing for a non commercial vehicle. If I didn't care about the warranty I would have already done this to my truck.

I don't know about Ford or GM but Dodge has already (since March 09) made changes to the engine computer that will not allow the use of programmers that replace the factory program (Smarty or Superchips). Basically if you try to replace the program in the ECU it will lock up the ECU and you won't be able to start the truck. When you take it to the dealer it will be big bucks to get it running again. I'm betting this is a government requirement for emissions compliance. The power programmers that merely intercept the signals from the ECU and don't try and replace the ECU programming might still work but I haven't read enough to know if that's true.


----------



## Collinsfam_WY

One system places a pipe through the DPF (after it is gutted) leaving the DPF looking entirely stock but keeping the exhaust flow smooth with the straight pipe through the middle of it. Kinda cool.

-CC


----------



## fshr4life

I offered $19000 and the dealer just laughed at me and said "then we don't have a deal." He's still talking $27-28K and I told him there's no way I'm paying that for a manufacturer buy-back truck that's also been in an accident. He didn't offer anything lower and instead said he would look for another truck with a clean record. Unless he starts dealing, I'm gonna walk.


----------



## bama29fan

as for the carfax saying it was in an accident....the truck i bought was also in an accident....this is what i did.

I found out where the accident occured, called the police station and got a copy of the accident report. this will give you a good indication as to the severity of the accident. Mine was very minor...truck was sitting still at stop light in the turning lane and another car backed out of a gas station parking lot and hit it in the drivers side front bumper.

I didnt let the dealer know how minor the accident was and used it as a bargaining chip...got the price lower, and then still acted skeptical and had them perform a complete alignment for free.


----------



## Nathan

fshr4life said:


> I offered $19000 and the dealer just laughed at me and said "then we don't have a deal." He's still talking $27-28K and I told him there's no way I'm paying that for a manufacturer buy-back truck that's also been in an accident. He didn't offer anything lower and instead said he would look for another truck with a clean record. Unless he starts dealing, I'm gonna walk.


I think this is better for your piece of mind. Now find a truck with fewer problems!









As for anyone messing with Emission controls, I'd highly recommned you keep the expensive parts (DPF/CAT/ETC) in tact. That way when you are suprised by the start of Diesel emission testing, you can affordably return your truck to the realm of the street legal. Otherwise, you're truck will be worthless until you spend many thousands repurchasing the components.


----------



## Joonbee

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Hey Carey, all of the looking around online I've done it seems alot of guys are doing the dpf delete, egr block, and adding an Edge programer to clear the codes on start up. Is this what you see most guys doing that you've run into. What might one expect to pay to get their 6.7 breathing freely. I need to to start saving up for this as I feel I may be killing my 6.7 prematurely due a lot of in town driving coupled with all the emissions crap. Thanks,
> 
> Brad


Now I dont know the exact deal with all the part numbers, but yep I know most use the Edge. They keep all the plumbing intact. They gut the dpf by either cutting it off and splitting it to remove the guts, or take it off and use a rod with a sledge and pound all the guts out. Then they use dummy sensors. From the outside the truck looks factory.

Several of the guys have been dot'd in Cali, and the guys looking at it werent smart enough to figure it out. Pretty normal for Cali dot guys.. lol.

If you do some research on the forums guys will tell exactly how to make everything look legal.

So dont even worry about the feds, because the only way they would ever know is by plugging a sniffer into the tailpipe. They have no way of doing that.

If your local emissions testing place only does a visual they will pass you right thru. Fewer states are even doing sniffer tests anymore, so most likely anyone could do this and never even give a 2nd thought about it.

I would bet in a year or two there will be no actual working dodge dpf's even left. Everyone is doing the delete kit I know.

The cost is coming down quickly. I talked to a guy last week and he said he spent about 1500 to do it himself.

The fuel mpg will go up over 20 empty and the power goes way up. All the dpf delete kits have the bugs worked out of them now. I can tell you there is not another diesel pick up engine that will even keep up with the 6.7 after its allowed to breath. Maybe if they have some big money in there trucks they'd keep up you, but thata the only way.

I wouldnt own one either unless mine was deleted too.

Carey
[/quote]

Great info Carey, thanks. It makes sense to gut the dpf instead of the delete pipe for visual inspections. The closest thing to emissions testing here is a rag over the tailpipe and look for leaks. Just wondering, are these guys leaving the catalytic converter in place or straight piping from the turbo back? I'd imagine thats where I might get in to a little more trouble. Thanks, I'll keep doing my research while my pennies keep adding up.









Brad
[/quote]

They gut everything out, cat too. They smooth out the welds and paint everything black with hi temp paint after they weld everything back together. Most run a lil MBRP muffler too..
[/quote]

If not I could always introduce them to my







ever so SLIGHTLY







altered dmax. My tuner passes along a mere 300+, yes and additional 300hp.

Seriously I have done all my mods for longevity a Carey stated and my wife actually uses it as her "grocery getter" when it is not towing. Its all in my sig, but knock on wood I have almost 8k on this oil change and I am still full. Have not given any back into the motor. EGR blocked and PCV re routed. Did over 3500 miles so far this month mixed towing and empty. knock on wood it will continue to purrr for many miles to come. I plan on 10k miles with this oil change and send it out to be tested. Can't see me going more than 10k between changes no matter the results, but it will be interesting ot see how it has held up.

Good luck and don't let tem make you settle. Get what you want for what you want.

Jim


----------



## N7OQ

fshr4life said:


> I offered $19000 and the dealer just laughed at me and said "then we don't have a deal." He's still talking $27-28K and I told him there's no way I'm paying that for a manufacturer buy-back truck that's also been in an accident. He didn't offer anything lower and instead said he would look for another truck with a clean record. Unless he starts dealing, I'm gonna walk.


Holy cow they are proud of that truck, I paid 27K for my Diesel brand new. Id walk away from that deal and find a better one.


----------



## MJRey

fshr4life said:


> I offered $19000 and the dealer just laughed at me and said "then we don't have a deal." He's still talking $27-28K and I told him there's no way I'm paying that for a manufacturer buy-back truck that's also been in an accident. He didn't offer anything lower and instead said he would look for another truck with a clean record. Unless he starts dealing, I'm gonna walk.


That sounds exactly like what happened to me 2 years ago with a Ford dealer. He wanted top dollar for a vehicle that he picked up dirt cheap at an auction. I saw he still had the truck 4 months later but by that time I had several bad experiences with Ford dealers and had decided to go with a Dodge instead. Until then I had Ford trucks for the previous 15 years. They're probably not making much on the new vehicles so they're trying to make a bunch on the used ones. No doubt they don't have much money into the truck so it's easy for them to keep it on the lot while they wait for some sucker to come along. Keep shopping you'll find something nice.


----------



## Carey

fshr4life said:


> I offered $19000 and the dealer just laughed at me and said "then we don't have a deal." He's still talking $27-28K and I told him there's no way I'm paying that for a manufacturer buy-back truck that's also been in an accident. He didn't offer anything lower and instead said he would look for another truck with a clean record. Unless he starts dealing, I'm gonna walk.


Let him ponder a while. Dont even call back looking for another truck. Let them call you. They will prolly counter your offer in a few days with like 24k, Hit em back at 20k and hang up. Dont say another word after you say 20k. Just hang up.

Carey


----------



## Carey

I bought my dually back in March 08 for 26500 out the door, tax and all. 7.9%.

They wanted 32k for it. It had 28k miles and is a 4x4. Yes its a work truck model, but thats what I wanted. There is little used diference between an st and an slt model. This baby was and still is a clean truck. Had all dealer service records and no wrecks. Had only been serviced at the dealer since new.

I offered 20k and walked. A week later they came back at 28k.

I told them I wanted a brand new set of tires and would meet em in the middle,(24k) and hung up.

A week later they said they'd take it if I were to go halves on the tires, so I paid 24500 for my truck. The truck was 2 model years old, had 28k miles, is a 4x4 dually and is an ST model with ac, cd, ps, pb, tinted windows, cruise, cold weather package, and plow package that was never used. And it came with new tires. It was a lease return so I bet they were in it for under 20k.

The market has dropped since then and is on the way back up now.

I just wanted to say be patient and youll get what you want. Im not saying Im the best at getting deals, but even dealers that are fat rats will bend eventually. Each time they counter your offer, you low ball back and ask for something with it, like a bedliner, cap, or bed cover, side steps, etc. I always do that to piss em off. Dont go up on your price unless they toss in perks. Tell them before making your counter offer, that each time they call, they will need to toss in a perk, cause you have found another truck at another dealer that has caught your interest. You are in the middle of making a deal and the truck you are looking at has a bedliner, steps, etc.. Tell them they will need to perk up there truck cuase the one you are looking at is real sweet. Do all your small talk on the phone then counter offer them and hang up.

After driving a truck, low ball the heck out of em and really po them so they walk away from you and send you packing, and make em deal with you on the telephone after. Be sure to write you offer on the back of a biz card with your ph number. The salesman will keep that, and naw on his manager, casue he wants the sale. This lil game almost never fails. If you really piss em off on your first offer they wont entice you into the dealership to where youll be weak. Never walk in to do deals on paper with em till you are actually buying the truck. Only do your deal on the phone and hang up every time. This makes the salesman squirm. The minute he sees youll budge a lil, he'll go knaw on his manager more and more.

Basically put the deal in the salesmans court. He will naturally beg his manager for a sale.

The tires on my truck were plenty good. I just asked for the tires to PO them. I had in my head, Id pay 25k for my truck, so to me, I got it for a bit better than 25k with a new set of tires. Oh yea, I made em toss in a free road hazard warranty for the tires in trade for me going halves on the tires. At the time, 25k was trade in book price. The msrp on this truck was 43k when it was new. So 32k was dealer retail price so the deal I got was decent. But to be honest I really wanted the truck as it was clean as a pin and had service records.. It was hard to be patient, but I just couldnt pay retail for it. It took 2 weeks to get the price I wanted but Im glad I held out.

I thought Id post how I buy a vehicle. I know Im mean, but I get what I want in the end and the dealer made plenty of profit to keep the lights on.

We are coming up on the end of the month fisher, so I bet they will bend before sept.1st.

If you dont buy that truck, try this on the next truck you look at.

Sorry my post is all over the place.. Im a bit tired as I just laid down 700 miles.

Carey


----------



## fshr4life

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> I bought my dually back in March 08 for 26500 out the door, tax and all. 7.9%.
> 
> Carey


Thanks, Carey. I think the dealer is just trying to feel me out. I'm not in a hurry to get a truck, so I've got the upper hand here. We'll see if he comes back with a counter offer. If not, it's no skin off my back. Don't worry - I'm just as mean as you are ;-)


----------



## Carey

fshr4life said:


> I bought my dually back in March 08 for 26500 out the door, tax and all. 7.9%.
> 
> Carey


Thanks, Carey. I think the dealer is just trying to feel me out. I'm not in a hurry to get a truck, so I've got the upper hand here. We'll see if he comes back with a counter offer. If not, it's no skin off my back. Don't worry - I'm just as mean as you are ;-)
[/quote]

Man you gotta be anymore. They will take advantage of you in a heartbeat. Its too bad, as they poke fun of us and joke with eachother about ripping us off. My cousin is a salessman for a big dealer in Denver. They guys have bets to see who makes the most off of customers. The winner gets a big steak dinner.. This is a monthly thing.

There are some rules with new, but there are no rules at all with used. Its all about buying low and selling high.

Carey


----------



## MJRey

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> I bought my dually back in March 08 for 26500 out the door, tax and all. 7.9%.
> 
> Carey


Thanks, Carey. I think the dealer is just trying to feel me out. I'm not in a hurry to get a truck, so I've got the upper hand here. We'll see if he comes back with a counter offer. If not, it's no skin off my back. Don't worry - I'm just as mean as you are ;-)
[/quote]

Man you gotta be anymore. They will take advantage of you in a heartbeat. Its too bad, as they poke fun of us and joke with eachother about ripping us off. My cousin is a salessman for a big dealer in Denver. They guys have bets to see who makes the most off of customers. The winner gets a big steak dinner.. This is a monthly thing.

There are some rules with new, but there are no rules at all with used. Its all about buying low and selling high.

Carey
[/quote]

This is a really good article about car salesman.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/artic...62/page001.html

It's pretty long, about 10 pages, but very informative about the tricks they like to play and what they really think of their customers. One time when we were buying the salesman did one of their tricks with a sheet of paper divided up into four parts with different information about payments, trade-in, price, etc.. When he did that I pointed to it and told DW "Hey look it's the silly quad chart I told you he would try to confuse us with!" The salesman was irritated and I told him I wasn't there to play his games and that he knew what price he had to meet. We left and two weeks later they called back and we got the vehicle with no more negotiating. Don't try to play their game, they'll beat you with years of experience. I've never spent more than an hour at a dealer during negotiations. The other place they try and nail you is when they turn you over to the finance people. They're worse in many ways than the sales people and have their own bag of tricks to try and get some more of you're money.


----------



## Carey

Yeah every time I see my cousin, he starts spouting off how he made 18k on a deal and starts laughing.

I want to just smash him to the surface. I ask him how can he sleep........ He says I sleep with a smile!

Thats when I put him in a headlock like when we were kids.

I wouldnt even send my own mother to buy a car from him, he laughs when I tell him that, and tells me, he wouldnt send my mom to him either.

Good article MJ and everyone should read and know there lil games.

Carey


----------

