# 1/2 Ton Hd?



## WildRed (Jul 4, 2010)

So I've been looking into new TV's, and while I love the thought of a 3/4 ton diesel, the price and cost of ownership give me reasons for concern. In looking today on car lots I came across a 2003 Silverado 1500 HD. I knew that there was such a truck but haven't ever seen one, so I haven't researched them any (dont even know the tow ratings).The truck had 115k miles on it, but it looked to be in very good condition. Even had every piece of carpet covered with deep rubber mats.

What thoughts do you guys have about the idea of a 1/2 ton HD? Also, does anyone know anything about this model in particular?


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## outback loft (Sep 22, 2008)

WildRed said:


> So I've been looking into new TV's, and while I love the thought of a 3/4 ton diesel, the price and cost of ownership give me reasons for concern. In looking today on car lots I came across a 2003 Silverado 1500 HD. I knew that there was such a truck but haven't ever seen one, so I haven't researched them any (dont even know the tow ratings).The truck had 115k miles on it, but it looked to be in very good condition. Even had every piece of carpet covered with deep rubber mats.
> 
> What thoughts do you guys have about the idea of a 1/2 ton HD? Also, does anyone know anything about this model in particular?


I have had a 1/2 ton HD in the past and it is essentially a 1500 with the suspension and axles of a 2500. It doesn't quite meet the tow specs of a 2500, but is closer to it. My truck now was just a 1500 and I have actually turned it into a 2500HD by specs, but I still cannot legally exceed my door sticker rating.

I know that the 1500HD comes with the standard 6.0 liter gas motor and is still only the 4 speed tranny of the 1500. My truck now has the Vortec Max 6.0 liter motor and I have the 5 speed allison tranny bolted up with that. I don't know the exact tow ratings on the 1500 HD, but my current truck has somewhere around a 2100 pound payload and a 9800 pound tow capacity, and that is with the standard 4.8 liter and 4 speed that was originally in the truck. The truck was a special order that had a heavier rear end for payload. I was essentially a 1500HD but with the smaller engine.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

It's going to depend on what you are towing. A 23' trailer or less and I'd say you would be OK. But that truck has a lot of miles. If the tranny hasn't been rebuilt by now, it soon will need it if it is average. If you're only going to pull the trailer on short trips, again, that truck may be fine. But if you have a 25' trailer or longer, or if you plan on long trips (we towed 2000 miles last summer), you'd do better with a 3/4-ton truck.

My trailer weighs around 6800#, loaded for a long trip - and about 900# of tongue weight. Add 400# (forward of the trailer axles) when I fill the water tank on a short weekend trip. My Crew Cab 2500HD is a gasser, with 4:10 rear end and HD 4-speed auto tranny with a lock-up clutch type torque converter. I get 8-9 mpg when towing, but it pulls strong. And with my Equal-i-zer hitch, the trailer is easy to pull and control. Towing is a more pleasurable experience.

I would recommend a late model 3/4-ton truck, even if you only have a 20' trailer. Some day, you will want to upsize and you'll be ready.

Just my opinion,

Mike


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## WildRed (Jul 4, 2010)

I'm actually pulling an OB 27RSDS. On the same car lot I found a 2004 2500hd diesel w/100k miles on for $5000 more. The total cost of ownership of the diesel has me a bit concerned, but I also hate making these decisions.


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## WildRed (Jul 4, 2010)

What kind of fuel mileage can you expect from the diesel because it will be my daily driver, also.


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## outback loft (Sep 22, 2008)

WildRed said:


> What kind of fuel mileage can you expect from the diesel because it will be my daily driver, also.


I cannot give you exact numbers but the 2500hd diesel is going to get you better mileage overall over the 1500hd gasser. I want to say that the gas will get you maybe 15 mpg overall and the diesel will push 20. Keep in mind these are averages without towing, drop the gas down to about 10 for towing and the diesel to 14 or so. I had a 3500 dually diesel in manual that I was getting 24 mpg around town, that truck was great, until an employee got hit head on in it by a drunk in a box van.


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## GO WEST (May 25, 2009)

The Chevy/GMC 1500 HD has a tow rating of about 10,000 lb and a good bit more payload with extra leaf springs, and 8 lug wheels for extra weight/work. I almost bought a 2007 GMC Classic 1500HD with 34,000 miles for $21,000; looking back that was a pretty good deal b/c it was really clean and at a Chevy dealer. That truck should do fine towing your camper. Now the 6.0L gets bad mileage, less than the diesel so using it as a daily driver you will spends lots of cash on fuel. With fuel costs rising, it makes sense to get an inexpensive car for knocking around and a bonafide fuel consuming truck for your exclusive tow vehicle or to carry the occasional load of trash or 2x4. I have a 2004 Pontiac Vibe and a Suburban 2500 with a 7.4L that mainly sits alongside my house where it won't consume fuel. If you travel and tow a bunch, you probably should consider a 3/4 ton diesel. You can't compare 100K on a gasser to 100K on a diesel since the diesel could last twice as long. However a gasser, if taken care of can go to 200,000 miles. I bought my Suburban with 171,000 on it and sunk $5,000 into it to get everything working really well (still has original stock transmission); time will tell if I made a good decision buying something older with more miles on it. My first big trip in it will be to Maine this summer. Look around, research, and don't get in a hurry on your new to you tow vehicle, and you will make a good decision so you don't have to change it out in a short period of time.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

WildRed said:


> What kind of fuel mileage can you expect from the diesel because it will be my daily driver, also.


I get about 13-14 mpg overall with my 6.0L gasser when not towing. The 6.0L engine is strong, but thirsty. But then, I didn't buy it for fuel economy, but rather, for its towing ability - both power and suspension, etc.

Fuel economy will be dependant on the transmission and rear end that the engine is mated with. If the 1500HD has the 3:73 rear end (which is standard for that model), it will get a little better fuel economy - perhaps 18-20 mpg when not towing. But it will lack pulling power and fuel economy will nosedive when towing, due to the higher geared rear end.

Diesel fuel and oil changes for a diesel are more expensive, but you will have all the towing power you will ever need and fuel economy will be better. (Cost wise, it's about a wash for fuel and maintenance.) It is a fine balancing act, but if you do your homework, shop around, and take your time to find just the right truck and deal, you'll be happier in the long run.

As I said before - the 3/4-ton truck, whether diesel or gas model, will be more reliable, will more safely handle your trailer (and yours is about the same weight/length as mine), and will let you choose almost any trailer (travel trailer of fiver) should you decide to upgrade in the future. I see a lot of people who choose a TV that just fits their need when they buy a trailer, but then are strapped for cash when they buy a newer, bigger trailer, only to find that their old TV just isn't up to the new task.

If you can see your way clear, go with the 3/4-ton. And if it is affordable, go with the diesel. You'll be glad you did!

Again, just my opinion.

Mike


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## swanny (Oct 31, 2007)

Go for the 2500 Diesel, you'll be glad you did. Don't worry about 100,000 on a diesel. I get 10.5 to 11 mpg pulling a 38' 5er. Also that diesel won't have any pollution stuff on it, and that's a good thing. Also if GM/GMC it will have an Allison tranny.

kevin


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## WildRed (Jul 4, 2010)

Mike, you make a very good point about buying just enough to pull what you currently have. My current TV is really on the edge of it's capabilities (probably even over the edge). I love the idea of having enough truck to pull (comfortably) virtually whatever I need. If we ever decided to upgrade our OB, I won't have to worry about have enough TV for it.

Kevin, do all of the 2500 HD Duramax's have the Allison tranny? The reason I ask is that I see some with Allison badging on the door and some without.

The more I talk about it and the more feedback I get from you guys, the more I think that this is the way for me to go. All of your feedback even has my wife saying, "go for the big one."


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

WildRed said:


> .....
> 
> The more I talk about it and the more feedback I get from you guys, the more I think that this is the way for me to go. All of your feedback even has my wife saying, "go for the big one."


Oh, come on, if the DW is convinced, buy it quick before she changes her mind!!!!









When I got my Diesel, the DW was more like: Go buy the truck if it will get you to shut up.


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

Nathan said:


> When I got my Diesel, the DW was more like: Go buy the truck if it will get you to shut up.


LOL! That's too funny...and true for me too!


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## KTMRacer (Jun 28, 2010)

WildRed said:


> What kind of fuel mileage can you expect from the diesel because it will be my daily driver, also.


without knowing what kind of "daily driving" you do it's hard to give a number. We have a 2004 Duramax cc4x4sb with 90K miles on it.

Driving back and forth to work about 5 miles each way and around town, I was averaging about 13mpg. Now retired, we get about 14-15 around town since it usually is longer trips or not as much a cool down period. But don't do near as much around town driving either, use our car for that most of the time.

Straight highway driving(non towing) we consistently get around 19mpg cruising at 70ish. Go much above 70 and mileage will drop like a rock. Has been as low as 18, a few times just over 20.

Pulling a 5000lb tandem axle cargo trailer I average about 14mpg.

Towing our new outback 295RE (8000lbs) and 16,500lbs overall we averaged just over 12mpg on a 2000 mile road trip from Portland to southern Utah (Zion NP, Bryce Canyon) etc. that included several passes pushing 9000-10,000 ft in altitude. Towing we generally cruise at 65 or slightly less. Again, speed kills the mileage big time as you get above about 60.


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## KTMRacer (Jun 28, 2010)

WildRed said:


> Mike, you make a very good point about buying just enough to pull what you currently have. My current TV is really on the edge of it's capabilities (probably even over the edge). I love the idea of having enough truck to pull (comfortably) virtually whatever I need. If we ever decided to upgrade our OB, I won't have to worry about have enough TV for it.
> 
> Kevin, do all of the 2500 HD Duramax's have the Allison tranny? The reason I ask is that I see some with Allison badging on the door and some without.
> 
> The more I talk about it and the more feedback I get from you guys, the more I think that this is the way for me to go. All of your feedback even has my wife saying, "go for the big one."


yes, ALL duramax's have an Allison 1000 transmission. Through 05 it was a 5 speed. In late 05 or 06 it went to a 6 speed with a double overdrive (5th and 6th are overdriven). 
Later model years have an allison sticker. Earlier model years didn't come from the factory with a Allison sticker, but many folks, myself included added Allison stickers available from Allison dealers or web sites.

The Allison also was on 2500/3500HD with the 502 big block gasser (8.2l). Other engines come with a GM transmission.


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## wolverine (Mar 5, 2009)

I bought a 2007 1500 HD Classic with 3.73 gears last year. It is the same exact truck as a 2500 HD except that it has one less leaf spring on the rear and lighter suspeion on the front. The transmission, engine, axles, and frame are the same. The 1500 HD has the heavy duty transmission with a temp guage. The 1500 HD has a payload of 3,129 lbs.

I love the truck and it will pull as much as a 2500 HD, but the gas mileage is terrible. I get 13-15 on the highway empty and I get 8.5 towing a 6,000 pound trailer while having my ATV in the bed of the truck.


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## Bob in Virginia (Jul 15, 2010)

Go with the Diesel! I have a 2005 2500HD CC with the Duramax and Allison and love it. Nothing pulls like a diesel.
Around town when cold and short trips the mpg kinda sucks, but once warm it really does well. On the highway I get 21-23 empty, average 12mpg when towing my OB301BQ at around 8000lbs. I have gotten up to 15 towing, must have been a good tailwind.









Find out which Duramax engine it has. The 2004 had the LB7 engine, at 2004 1/2 they changed to the LLY. I have the LLY in my 2005 and it is a great engine. The only problem they had with the LB7 was with injectors. GM extended the warranty on them.

As far as oil changes, I get my oil from Wally world, synthetic at $12 a gallon, a change takes 10 quarts. But the oil lasts a long time, for me around 8000 miles. Diesel fuel is more expensive than regular unleaded in my area, but less than premium.

Also, the brakes on the HD are incredible and last a long time. Most owners report 100k miles on original pads.


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## wolverine (Mar 5, 2009)

I sated that the frame is the same as a 2500HD but it accually is the same as a 2500LD which became the 1500HD. The 1500HD is still considered a 3/4 ton truck and has 3/4 ton brakes. The brakes on my 1500HD are way better than what was on my suburban.


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## WildRed (Jul 4, 2010)

Well...the search continues. The dealer and I couldn't come to an agreement that I was comfortable with. I had in my mind all I could spend, unfortunately, it didn't match what the dealer had in his mind. I was all keyed up for the oil burner but it wasn't meant to be....today. I told myself I wasn't going to get in a hurry. The amazing thing is that I listened to myself.


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## muddy tires (Jun 22, 2007)

That's too bad.

As a reference point, my 2009 2500HD Duramax gets as good as 12 L/100km on the highway unloaded and I average about 15 L/100km real world everyday driving (lots of Toronto stop and go). Sorry, don't know what that is in mpg.


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## CdnOutback (Apr 16, 2010)

I agree, Muddy tires. I average 24L/100km towing the 5er. I think that's about 10 mpg...


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## heron (May 13, 2010)

WildRed said:


> So I've been looking into new TV's, and while I love the thought of a 3/4 ton diesel, the price and cost of ownership give me reasons for concern. In looking today on car lots I came across a 2003 Silverado 1500 HD. I knew that there was such a truck but haven't ever seen one, so I haven't researched them any (dont even know the tow ratings).The truck had 115k miles on it, but it looked to be in very good condition. Even had every piece of carpet covered with deep rubber mats.
> 
> What thoughts do you guys have about the idea of a 1/2 ton HD? Also, does anyone know anything about this model in particular?


Go with a 3/4 ton. Diesel if possible. Diesel is more but your mileage and experience while towing will be much better. Cost of maintaining a Duramax is not that high. Purchase a bypass filtration setup, run synthetic and upgrade your fuel filter to a Nicktane setup. I don't change my oil. I simply send a sample to the oil lab every 10K and replace my filters every 10K. Yes, up front costs are more but I won't be replacing engines, tranny's etc.. A diesel will last if you maintain it and it will maintain it's power and overall towing ability a long time. I don't plan on selling my truck especially considering all the issues going on with the smog restrictions on diesels these days. Mileage for my 2wd around town is 16, towing is somewhere in the 13mpg averaging 65mph. I have modded my truck a lot but all for longevity and safety. I ride a scooter to work(5miles). I don't like driving a diesel around town. 
Also, if you go with a GM look for an LBZ, they all had their issues but the LLY/LBZ was the latest without the pollution garbage. It may be difficult to find one at a fair price.


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## Signguy (May 5, 2008)

I have an '07 Silverado 1500HD, as well - mine has the 4.10 gear ratio and a tow rating of 10,300 lbs. I pull a 30BHQ ( 6100lbs. dry )and have no issues whatsoever.
I've had this setup from Va. to Fla. and everywhere in between - even some fairly steep grades here in NC.

The mileage, as most have pointed out, is pretty bad - I average 13-14, and 8-9 towing...and it's my daily commuter. Great truck, though!


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## Tangooutback (Apr 16, 2010)

WildRed said:


> What kind of fuel mileage can you expect from the diesel because it will be my daily driver, also.


Mine is a Ford F250 with 7.3L diesel. That is a huge engine and the truck is heavy. In town I get 13 mpg. On freeway without towing and keep under 70 mph I get 18 mpg. With the 25' trailer (7500 lbs) in tow I get 12 mpg as long as I keep speed at 65 mph.

The diesel shines when I tow over hilly terrain. The gasser I previously had could hardly do it. 
To this day I am so glad I decided to go with diesel.


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## WildRed (Jul 4, 2010)

What year model is your F250? The reason I ask is that I have had my eye on a 2001 Lariat with the 7.3L in it. I know that those engines were workhorses, but this one has 180K miles on it. When you look at it, it is obvious that the truck has been cared for and maintained....on the surface. I haven't had the opportunity to speak with the owner to find out about engine maintenance, but I can't imagine one looking as good as this one and it not be maintained all the way around. Even the leather on the side of driver side seat looks good, no cracks or tears.

His asking price is in my range so I plan on driving it and if I like it, take it to a mechanic for a once over. My concern is obviously whether or not I would be buying a money pit.


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