# It's A 12 Letter Word



## OregonCampin (Mar 9, 2007)

UGH - we uncovered the OB this weekend and pulled it out to Cottage Grove (about 20 miles south) to a friends house where we stayed the night on Friday. As we were pulling out of his driveway on Saturday I looked up and noticed blistering on the front cap. It is mostly isolated to around the lights, but there does appear to travel up towards the top of the trailer.

The DH is calling the dealer today to try and get it in for repair. We are a couple of months beyond our normal warranty period, so it will be interesting to see what Keystone has to say.


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## bradnjess (Mar 25, 2007)

Sorry to hear this. Hopefully since your only a few months out of warranty Keystone will step up and fix it without delay. Especially since this seems to be rather widespread. I've noticed that several of the de-lamination cases have been on tt that were covered, I'm just curious if this may promote the de-lamination or make a small problem bigger. I hope this doesn't interfere too much with your camping season. Keep us posted with your dealings withe Keystone.

Brad


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Hopefully if it is truly delam, your lights are caulked good, as Keystone won't do anything if the caulking is cracked or missing.

That is a maintenance item, and you will be on your own.

Steve


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

I sure hope Keystone comes through for you...I'll keep my fingers crossed


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## OregonCampin (Mar 9, 2007)

Does anyone know the best route to start the communication with Keystone? We talked to our dealer and he told us to call them first and log the problem.


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## OregonCampin (Mar 9, 2007)

bradnjess said:


> I've noticed that several of the de-lamination cases have been on tt that were covered, I'm just curious if this may promote the de-lamination or make a small problem bigger.
> 
> Brad


I sure hope not!!! We have two covers - one for summer (UV blocking top) and one for winter (water proof top) - it would be highly irritating if the cover caused the problem after purchasing them to protect our investment.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

OREGONCAMPIN said:


> Does anyone know the best route to start the communication with Keystone? We talked to our dealer and he told us to call them first and log the problem.


If this is going to be dealt with as a Warranty Claim (or tried, anyway), I would expect my dealer to make (and argue) the case directly with Keystone. If Keystone turns down the request (be sure your dealer has 'gone to bat' for you), then you call whoever your dealer spoke with and put the pressure on as the owner. The dealer has lots more 'pull' in this ...they want a happy buyer/owner and Keystone wants a happy dealer (and happy owner, too)! Just my .02


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## n2striper (Jul 21, 2007)

I hope it works out for you and they take care of it. I agree the dealer should handle the claim. It's called customer service/chain of command. I work for a wholesale parts distributor and buy direct from manufacturers. I don't tell my customers to 'call the factory'. We take care of it because we sold it to the customer. Service is what seperates the good companies/dealers from the ones that will probably not be around for long. 
My $0.02


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## bradnjess (Mar 25, 2007)

OREGONCAMPIN said:


> I've noticed that several of the de-lamination cases have been on tt that were covered, I'm just curious if this may promote the de-lamination or make a small problem bigger.
> 
> Brad


I sure hope not!!! We have two covers - one for summer (UV blocking top) and one for winter (water proof top) - it would be highly irritating if the cover caused the problem after purchasing them to protect our investment.
[/quote]

I just wanted to clear up what I said regarding the cover. I certainly do not think your cover or any cover would cause this problem. This is certainly a Keystone adhesive issue. My thoughts were once the de-lamination starts are the covers accelerating it, especially if there is a warm spell before its uncovered. This may be way off but I just noticed several of the recent de-lamination stories I read were covered during the off season.

Brad


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## jitch388 (Apr 19, 2008)

This story is getting a bit old. How many times does Keystone have to see delamination around the front lights before they do something? And yes, your dealer needs to go to bat for you. 
Blessings


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## FraTra (Aug 21, 2006)

WOW! The delamination posts sure have been increasing lately. I have come to the conclusion (maybe because of my own bad experiences) that there are 2 kinds of Outbacks, the ones that have delam and the ones that will.

I hope you can get Keystone to step up, after all, they know they have a severe manufacturing flaw they have never resolved.


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Calling Keystone is one thing, I am a bit bothered that your dealer told you to call though... a good dealer should be the one going to bat for you and working with Keystone to fix it properly and quickly. Stay on your dealer!


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## OregonCampin (Mar 9, 2007)

OK - the DH called the service department at our dealer and was sent to Keystone. I told him today that he needs to call the owner/sales guy and get him to start the process. As a dealer they have always been really good to us - I think part of the issue is that they do not do this kind of work themselves and have to ship it out. The other problem is the place they ship it out too I refuse to do business with, so now I will be searching out a dealer to do the fix as well, but one step at a time....


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## gofishn (Jun 1, 2008)

ugh! we agree
our 07 23rs has had the tires recalled/ and replaced, the front cap delaminating/ replaced, and now the new cap is doing the same, and oh yeah, the air conditioner 
has stopped working !!! pshaw!
waiting for the dealership to call back, the by the way have been very helpful in the past year, let's hope they keep it up !
(Sky River RV, Arroya Grande Ca)


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## LA Plouff (Mar 15, 2008)

OREGONCAMPIN said:


> Does anyone know the best route to start the communication with Keystone? We talked to our dealer and he told us to call them first and log the problem.


I have had problems with the back bed bracket breaking and stress crack on the lower right corner of the bed area. First, I called the dealer and aked for the local district manager to clue him in, second I called Keystone direct 1-574-534-9430. Go to the receptionist and ask for customer relations. Document everything including time, date, contact name and extention. I have talked to Denise who seems to be on top of everything. Craig is not much good at all. If everything else fails, ask for the customer relations manager, I think his name is Steve Holmes. Let me know if this doesnt help.


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## gofishn (Jun 1, 2008)

thank you for all your information
Called keystone directly and talked with Denise, yes much more help than Craig
1-574-534-9430
She took down all our info regarding delam for the second time on our 07 outback.
We are taking it to the dealership on Sat for pictures on the delam prob. (2 1/2 hr drive with a diesel) ouch!
Denise actually had a "fix" for the air cond. not working. It just stopped. She thinks the remote need to be reprogrammed.
l. take the batteries out
2. turn off the main breaker
3. disconnect 12v batteries
4. disconnect shore cord
5. wait 30 seconds
6. reconnect backwards (6.5.4.3.2.1.)
She pretty much guarantees that this will work ! will see when hubby gets home !
cher


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## Dan V (May 21, 2006)

This delamination problem seems quite well spread , when I picked up my OB 2 years ago 3 other TT (NEW) just on my walk to reach mine had this problem . This is NOT a warranty repair as compared to other things that just break or quit working . This is a KNOWN FACTORY DEFECT and the repairs should be made well past the warranty time , OB knows this and should have a recall on any trailers experiencing this problem . If not , it sounds like a class action lawsuite !

If there is a known defect on your vehicle regardless of make , you would be notified by the dealer/factory of it and to have it brought in and repaired reguardless of age or milage . Think my OB will be on the aution block within the next year , we've been looking at Cougar 5th wheels , may have to do some more research and rethink this as they are also made by Keystone , hopefully this and other sloppy worksmanship is just Outback and not Keystone ! I've had too many issues with my OB and every time it went in for warranty they screwed up more things than they fixed . Sure wish I had found this forum before I purchased my OB .


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## OregonCampin (Mar 9, 2007)

gofishn said:


> thank you for all your information
> Called keystone directly and talked with Denise, yes much more help than Craig
> 1-574-534-9430
> She took down all our info regarding delam for the second time on our 07 outback.
> ...


We have reset our just by removing the batteries and waiting - might want to try that before all 12 steps.


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## gofishn (Jun 1, 2008)

wow, thank you
i called Denise (at Keystone) because our front is delaminating again, for the 2nd time, and now the air conditioner wasn't working
Denise gave me the instructions to reprogram the remote for the air/furnace and it worked ! 
Now, I am submitting pictures to dealership to hopefully get a new front cap.!
keep your fingers crossed


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## tcoyle2 (Dec 3, 2007)

Sorry to hear about your delamination problem.

Thought you might like the information I have concerning delamination and the interface I have had with the BBB & Keystone.

Go to: http://www.neindiana.bbb.org/complaint/vie...017443/c/cecm83

I am still waiting for the next response from the BBB.

Regards

tim


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## Tyvekcat (Aug 28, 2007)

what does the de-lamination look like? Like little crinkles in the gel coat surface? Like an orange peel?
Had a cover on the front of our outback and the front doesn't look as smooth as the sides now. Maybe just the light.
let me know what I should be looking for.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Dan V said:


> ........ we've been looking at Cougar 5th wheels , may have to do some more research and rethink this as they are also made by Keystone , hopefully this and other sloppy worksmanship is just Outback and not Keystone ! I've had too many issues with my OB and *every time it went in for warranty they screwed up more things than they fixed *. Sure wish I had found this forum before I purchased my OB .


The Outback - - therefpre, Keystone - - is not the only brand/manufacturer to have such issues. In fact, every service center we've spoken to has reported that keystone has far fewer issues, stands behind their product better, and works with their Service Centers more effectively than most others. You may want to spread your research alot wider than just looking at non-keystone products...

As for *every time it went in for warranty they screwed up more things than they fixed *." That has nothing to do with Keystone...or the brand of your TT .... and everything to do with the Dealer.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Tyvekcat said:


> what does the de-lamination look like? Like little crinkles in the gel coat surface? Like an orange peel?
> Had a cover on the front of our outback and the front doesn't look as smooth as the sides now. Maybe just the light.
> let me know what I should be looking for.


This is what ours looks like. Our Dealer says this is not delam....but Keystone was VERY quick to authorize full replacement/repair under warranty. Things that make you say hhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmm..........








Puff's nose


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## Tyvekcat (Aug 28, 2007)

Yes! Wolfie, I see why you took 'Puff' in to the shop. Excellent pic. I know what to look for. I appreciate it. 
I need to take a pic.
Thanks


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

Poor Puff's NOSE!!! You may check your roof, as well, right where it starts to drop. My 31RQS had a problem there, where the roof started to sag, and it was just a mess waiting to happen. Luckily, I caught it soon enough and it was corrected. Just FYI.
Darlene


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## OregonCampin (Mar 9, 2007)

OK - it has been awhile since I updated on our Delam issue....

We have what they call the "cottage cheese" effect. We do have one significant "dip" at the seam between the roof and the front cap. We are taking her in next week for photo's, etc.

Now - we have not been completely approved for fix, but did find out something interesting when we talked to the dealer that is doing the fix (not our dealer - they do not do the work, but sent us to this other dealer). At any rate, this other dealer is "approved" by Keystone to do any delam work - what that means is if they submit a claim, Keystone will pay it and from what I have been told, with no questions asked (this remains to be seen). I did understand that they somewhat under pay for the work (Keystone pays for 5 hours of labor, the shop says it takes 9). Now I am not going to name this dealer yet - I want to see if this works the way they say it will, but if there is one shop out there approved for this, should there not be more?? Our dealer knew this about the other dealer, which is why they sent us to them. We should know something here in the next couple weeks and I will update again.

Hopefully we will learn something new out of our experience!


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