# Reader Warning--Melt Down Rant



## Keith68 (Feb 18, 2011)

Since I purchased my 2011 210RS Outback (Anniversary Edition), new, I have had the following issues:

1)Defective piece installed under the bathroom sink that resulted in water splattering everywhere when I tried to rinse out the black tank from the exterior input. Although it was replaced under warranty, I am 120 miles from the nearest dealer and having warranty work done is never convenient.

2)Defective awning motor. Required two separate trips to the dealer and was replaced under warranty.

3)Missing internal piece that keeps the city water connector attached inside the panel. This has caused all sorts of leak problems and the water pump to start up every five minutes when using water tank--I'm still awaiting the part from Keystone. Even though they failed to install the part in the factory (tech verified this via photos I e-mailed) they first denied my request for the part since my warranty had ended in April. Then, several weeks later they changed their mind and are claiming to replace it under "good will."

Using the term "good will" removed all good will from me. How was I know to know a part was missing until it finally manifested in a leak that forced me to remove the couch out to see what was going on?

4)Now my external black tank rinse connection is blocked. The water comes in one pipe under the bathroom sink, makes it to the next pipe, and then somewhere underneath the shower to the black tank is totally blocked. No water can move past into the blank tank to rinse.

5)There is also a mysterious leak on the right bed board (where the pillow would be) after it rains. How does water leak up?

6)Rubber compartment seals are coming loose everywhere and all the internal siding (at the wall corners) seems to come off at the drop of a hat. The tacks they used are worthless so I'm gluing everything back as it comes off.

I took this all in good stride the first year, but I have to say, it's getting old. I paid the extra money to purchase new for a reason. Did I buy a lemon or am I just being a whiny brat over typical stuff?

Keith


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## hautevue (Mar 8, 2009)

I understand your frustration with buying new and having numerous problems. It seems to me that your actions to replace/repair the problems are working, except for the new one with the black tank drain.

For that one you probably have to pull down the bottom sheet underneath to access the black drain pipes and find the blockage. Maybe it will turn out to be a rubber ducky from your daughter ?  But in any event, what I suggest is perhaps you can find an RV dealer with a good service department, near you, so you don't have to drive hours to a Keystone dealer. The warranty has run out so you might as well cultivate a relationship with a local RV place.

Then have them attack the black tank issue. Blockages always have explanations. Take photos of the dismantling. Maybe the blockage is that Gilligan left tools or some such in the line. If it is obvious that Keystone was at fault, you have the photos to prove it and IMHO you will have a good case to claim reimbursement.

But even if you get nothing from Keystone, or the blockage is owner-caused (like that rubber ducky!), you now have a free flowing sewage drain system and you can drive off into the sunset for a deserved camping trip.

Best wishes for successful resolution of the problems.


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## bill_pfaff (Mar 11, 2005)

"4)Now my external black tank rinse connection is blocked. The water comes in one pipe under the bathroom sink, makes it to the next pipe, and then somewhere underneath the shower to the black tank is totally blocked. No water can move past into the blank tank to rinse."

If you are talking about a sewer flush, have you never used the flush before? I'm in S.O.B. I purchased out of warranty and had the problem where the sewer flush wouldn't work. Long story short, had to cut up part of the deck in a storage compartment and found where they pinched the line between the sub-floor and the frame when they built the unit. Looks like the guy that had it before me just didn't bother with it or didn't realize that the flush wasn't flushing.

As for the rest of it. I think you are having a few more problems than one would expect with a new unit and I agree whole hardheartedly with you. Good will is one thing but it isn't good will when it wasn't right to start with.


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## clarkely (Sep 15, 2008)

1)Defective piece installed under the bathroom sink that resulted in water splattering everywhere when I tried to rinse out the black tank from the exterior input. Although it was replaced under warranty, I am 120 miles from the nearest dealer and having warranty work done is never convenient. Unfortunately that is a problem you can have in the future as well as the outside KC sinks drain into the black tank ....... I am not a fan of the sink draining into the black tank - there are ways to get it to the gray tank......... or get rid of it all together - IMHO

2)Defective awning motor. Required two separate trips to the dealer and was replaced under warranty. It is the same awning and motor on thousands of rv's - sounds like "when it rains it pours" as this stuff is happening......

3)Missing internal piece that keeps the city water connector attached inside the panel. This has caused all sorts of leak problems and the water pump to start up every five minutes when using water tank--I'm still awaiting the part from Keystone. Even though they failed to install the part in the factory (tech verified this via photos I e-mailed) they first denied my request for the part since my warranty had ended in April. Then, several weeks later they changed their mind and are claiming to replace it under "good will." THIS IS RIDICULOUS _ THIS WOULD PISS ME OFF .......... i have seen to many of friends units have problems here........ and i am always checking to make sure mine is tight and good to go

Using the term "good will" removed all good will from me. How was I know to know a part was missing until it finally manifested in a leak that forced me to remove the couch out to see what was going on?

4)Now my external black tank rinse connection is blocked. The water comes in one pipe under the bathroom sink, makes it to the next pipe, and then somewhere underneath the shower to the black tank is totally blocked. No water can move past into the blank tank to rinse. If it is "blocked" and not a defective part .......... then this could be from use and really is just something to deal with ..........not necessarily something to be mad at the manufacturer for........

5)There is also a mysterious leak on the right bed board (where the pillow would be) after it rains. How does water leak up? - not sure of this one - would need more info/photo's to give an opinion.....

6)Rubber compartment seals are coming loose everywhere and all the internal siding (at the wall corners) seems to come off at the drop of a hat. The tacks they used are worthless so I'm gluing everything back as it comes off. I do this as well ............. personally i chalk this up to delivering a product at a consumer driven price.......... when i look at all that goes into these trailers including the fuel and labor to deliver them ........... I am always amazed there is anything left for a profit for the dealer........ when you figure the manufacturer and dealer have to make a margin to be in business and we buy these units for 22-25K ........ and everything bounces around on the highway......... well that is my take on it ........ i understand frustration when you lump it all together though

I took this all in good stride the first year, but I have to say, it's getting old. I paid the extra money to purchase new for a reason. Did I buy a lemon or am I just being a whiny brat over typical stuff? some is typical some is not - when you lump it all together......... well you get an elevated frustration level.....

good luck


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## 2girls4mom (Feb 26, 2012)

Let me say that we love, love our 250rs... Having come from a 1996 Kit Companion.

We purchased the Kit from a family we knew and they used it three times. It was SOLID, I can honestly say we did NOTHING to it in terms of repair and we were new to TT (from boating) and did not do correct maintenance... Learned A LOT fromm this site for the Outback.

Our 250rs has had issues... 
1) our main entry door is warped and does not close correctly. It has been in before and needs to go again. 
2) medicine cabinet door FELL OFF the cupboard , has been fixed
3) TRIM PIECEs are COMING OFF the wall - we fixed those
4) DD decided to practice cheer in the trailer and put her toe through the ceiling ( our issue but Camping World put a piece of trim on to cover it for free..








A few other issues.

We purchased new to avoid hassles and although our issues are insignificant compared to yours, we came from an OLD TT that had none. The DH has chalked it up to quick manufacturing process and "ultra light" status. They pack so much into these TT these days.

Wish you the best and sorry for your frustrations . We are on alert to slide rails, leaks, etc. courtesy of Outbackers. I do have to say our Camping World has been excellent!

S


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## iflawdya (Apr 11, 2012)

I feel your pain. We purchased a 2012 312bh in may. It's currently at the dealer for the 3rd time for warranty work. It seems like everytime we go out we come back with problems. The piston has come off outside bathroom door, staple sticking up from the carpet, screen door latch stripped, floor registers stripped, tv and all shades were installed crooked, bubble in ceiling, mod in outdoor fridge, bottom of mattress ripped from the plywood they used to make storage compartment, and so on. A lot is mostly cosmetic but when you buy brand new we shouldn't have these problems. Also on my 3rd power tongue jack. We sent all this info in an email to Keystone. A month after we sent it we got a call from them saying basically that we have a warranty so make sure you use it before it runs out. So push it out the door and let the consumer deal with it is what they do. To Me its BS!


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## therink (May 13, 2010)

iflawdya said:


> I feel your pain. We purchased a 2012 312bh in may. It's currently at the dealer for the 3rd time for warranty work. It seems like everytime we go out we come back with problems. The piston has come off outside bathroom door, staple sticking up from the carpet, screen door latch stripped, floor registers stripped, tv and all shades were installed crooked, bubble in ceiling, mod in outdoor fridge, bottom of mattress ripped from the plywood they used to make storage compartment, and so on. A lot is mostly cosmetic but when you buy brand new we shouldn't have these problems. Also on my 3rd power tongue jack. We sent all this info in an email to Keystone. A month after we sent it we got a call from them saying basically that we have a warranty so make sure you use it before it runs out. So push it out the door and let the consumer deal with it is what they do. To Me its BS!


Sorry to hear about your troubles. I believe that 90% of the items you described should have been caught and repaired by your dealer during the prep that they are supposed to do when they receive the unit from the factory. 
The process was explained to me by an RV tech I talked to:
Rvs are built on a high volume, low quality control assembly line (we all know that). It is cheaper for the manufacturers to push them out the door with cosmetic imperfections and let the dealers go through and fix them than it is to pump out a quality product. With this said, all manufacturers provide dealers with a prep allowance to inspect and make these cosmetic repairs before the buyer takes delivery. Good dealers use the allowance as intended to make sure this is done. Some dealers (I know a few), pocket this $ and leave it up to the unsuspecting rv buyer to find the problems themselves, then hope they fix them themselves, or bring the units in then collect more $ from the manufacturers as a warranty claim. 
I believe this. I think it explains why some get lemons and some don't. 
For this reason alone, this is why as a buyer it is so important to do a complete PDI inspection. The form fir these inspections are available on most rv forums. A good PDI, can take a few hours if done properly. Most people are just so excited to pull away in the new rig, they don't want to think or even suspect that there are problems. For this reason alone, I will never purchase an, RV from the dealer where I bought my current rig. I learned the hard way. 
After I got the bugs out, I will say that after 3 camping seasons, I am very happy with my Keystone product. One other thing to note is that Rvs are designed to be light, yet have all the comforts of home. Stuff is going to come loose, out of alignment, wear out, etc. They take a lot of abuse pounding down the road. I am constantly fixing this, or tightening that, or resealing the caulk that may not look right. I believe preventative maintenance will go a long way in getting a long life out of my rig. 
My 2 cents 
Steve


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

iflawdya said:


> I feel your pain. We purchased a 2012 312bh in may. It's currently at the dealer for the 3rd time for warranty work. It seems like everytime we go out we come back with problems. The piston has come off outside bathroom door, staple sticking up from the carpet, screen door latch stripped, floor registers stripped, tv and all shades were installed crooked, bubble in ceiling, mod in outdoor fridge, bottom of mattress ripped from the plywood they used to make storage compartment, and so on. A lot is mostly cosmetic but when you buy brand new we shouldn't have these problems. Also on my 3rd power tongue jack. We sent all this info in an email to Keystone. A month after we sent it we got a call from them saying basically that we have a warranty so make sure you use it before it runs out. So push it out the door and let the consumer deal with it is what they do. To Me its BS!


I have to agree, if you had a good dealer, you would have never received it with many of these issues.

Also, the Outbacks don't come with a power tongue jack, so if you have one, it was installed at the selling dealer, and is not Keystone's fault....

If you have mold in the outdoor fridge, then you aren't cleaning it after use, or haven't left the door propped open when not in use. The same thing can happen to your indoor fridge if you don't do this.

As for the mattress tearing, every builder uses plywood bases, so think of it as an opportunity to buy a mattress that you can actually sleep on.


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## iflawdya (Apr 11, 2012)

huntr70 said:


> I feel your pain. We purchased a 2012 312bh in may. It's currently at the dealer for the 3rd time for warranty work. It seems like everytime we go out we come back with problems. The piston has come off outside bathroom door, staple sticking up from the carpet, screen door latch stripped, floor registers stripped, tv and all shades were installed crooked, bubble in ceiling, mod in outdoor fridge, bottom of mattress ripped from the plywood they used to make storage compartment, and so on. A lot is mostly cosmetic but when you buy brand new we shouldn't have these problems. Also on my 3rd power tongue jack. We sent all this info in an email to Keystone. A month after we sent it we got a call from them saying basically that we have a warranty so make sure you use it before it runs out. So push it out the door and let the consumer deal with it is what they do. To Me its BS!


I have to agree, if you had a good dealer, you would have never received it with many of these issues.

Also, the Outbacks don't come with a power tongue jack, so if you have one, it was installed at the selling dealer, and is not Keystone's fault....

If you have mold in the outdoor fridge, then you aren't cleaning it after use, or haven't left the door propped open when not in use. The same thing can happen to your indoor fridge if you don't do this.

As for the mattress tearing, every builder uses plywood bases, so think of it as an opportunity to buy a mattress that you can actually sleep on.
[/quote]
The fridge definitely gets cleaned out properly and the door gets propped open.Unfortunately they positioned the fridge so you cant open the door all the way to get the freezer tray out when its full of water. As far as the power tongue jack it was added as part of the deal. I understand it's not keystones fault I am on my 3rd one, it just adds to the frustration with the rush job they did on everything else.


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## mommy2boyz (Feb 3, 2010)

We had a similar issue with the wet section next to pillow (if I understand the problem). If you extend the bed slide, you will see a 1" seam the full length of the rear slide (on both the passenger and driver's side). We found that ours was not caulked at all on one side where the water was observed inside. After a minor mold clean-up and a fresh bead of caulk, all is good.

We also have the leak with the black tank flush. Ours leaks at the inlet and also at the anti-siphon segment under the sink...we don't use it right now.

Good luck!


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## spidey (Aug 8, 2012)

We just had our first camping trip (8 days) in our new 2011 Outback 250RS.

We discovered many things that were wrong that you dont notice until you use it. But the dealer said bring it back for anything you notice. Its like that for any new camper purchase, there will be things that are missed

1. Toilet leaks at base when flushing
2. Fridge door would not stay closed tight.
3. Oven striker didnt work
4. Back door screen handle was cracked and broke
5. Trim under couch coming off on one side
6. Trim on top of fridge door fell off
7. Outside sink/stove - white bar kept falling off
8. Outside sink/stove, lip inside leaked water inside trailer. (discovered this when we accidently left it down and it rained)
9. Windo above couch would not close properly

All I can rmember off the top of my head. I wrote it down and left with them


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