# What Improvements Would You Suggest Keystones



## Tangooutback (Apr 16, 2010)

For the start, I'd suggest Keystone to fix the "bubble/delaminating" problem with the fiberglass skin on Outback trailers. Second is to raise their trailers a little higher to allow more generous floor-to-ground clearance. Third is to use metal instead of plastic sleeves in the suspension hangers and shackles.


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## Troy n Deb (Aug 31, 2009)

Blinds that don't get all bent up in the window cranks


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## Jewellfamily (Sep 25, 2010)

I have a 312BH so I'll just talk to that one.

1. Make the extra fridge in the rear a dual mode (gas/elec) instead of just 110v.

2. Make the extra sink in the outdoor kitchen drain into the rear grey tank, not the black tank.

3. The stove top in the outdoor kitchen could stand to be larger for surface area. It has 2 burners but you cant get 2 pans on it.

4. Put a TP holder in the bathroom.

5. Get rid of the fold down door under the bathroom sink with the laundry bag, and put in a left opening door with 2 shelves.

6. Change the "clothes closet" next to the dinette for the bunkhouse into a pantry with drawers that pull of to store food in. Set the cupboards in the bunkhouse entertainment center up to replace this lost hanging storage space.

7. Change the base configuration for the dinette table so that the vertical legs are rotated 90 degrees so you can get into the dinette without banging your knees.

I know some of these are mods people have already done and will be mods I will probably do over the upcoming seasons. Its a great unit, but there is always room for little tweaks to make it better.


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## duggy (Mar 17, 2010)

Tangooutback said:


> For the start, I'd suggest Keystone to fix the "bubble/delaminating" problem with the fiberglass skin on Outback trailers. Second is to raise their trailers a little higher to allow more generous floor-to-ground clearance. Third is to use metal instead of plastic sleeves in the suspension hangers and shackles.


Two of your three items have been addressed to some point. My understanding is that the bulk of delamination issues have been on the front cap. The new molded cap will put an end to that. I'm assuming your reference to ground clearance is for a pre 2009 model. Our 2011 trailer has three steps at the door. I've never seen anything with four, so I'm thinking it's as high as anything out there now.

I agree they could use some better quality suspension components. They definitely have built in obsolescence.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the quality and level of amenities in our trailer. One thing I'd like to see improved is the paint on the steps and a couple other underside pieces of hardware. Ours are already getting rusty, and they're barely one year old.


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## heron (May 13, 2010)

Jewellfamily said:


> I have a 312BH so I'll just talk to that one.
> 
> 1. Make the extra fridge in the rear a dual mode (gas/elec) instead of just 110v.
> 
> ...


I'll add to yours:

1.Larger diameter duct work to the bunkhouse to make up for the longer run to the back of the camper. This way there would be more flow and cooler back there on hot nights.

2. LED lights throughout, even charge an upgrade fee. We've had our camper out 4x so far and the out door light (orange) is burned out already. Too much heat with those conventional bulbs. Also, add led lighting in closets, pantry etc...

3. Attachment points under the rear of the camper to store outdoor equipment, tote tanks etc...This camper is quite high and really if you watch where you drive it you could really utilize the underneath area of the camper. I'm rigging up a strapping system to hold my not yet delivered barker 42 gallon tote tank.

4. Back up lights on the camper

5. Black tank flush on same side as valves


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## john7349 (Jan 13, 2008)

Fix the COLD water in the shower when shower head is paused.







Seems like lots of folks have this problem.


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## go6car (Jan 19, 2004)

NO MORE DECALS ON THE EXTERIOR!!!!!!!!

(And yes, I'm shouting this one!!









Others (available as options since everyone's opinion will differ):



32" or larger flatscreen TV built in to the side of the trailer
MCD sun/night shades throughout (imagine - actually BEING dark inside with the shades down!)
Larger capacity fridge. Bonus if there's an option for a residential (vs. absorbtion) unit
Euro recliners as options since the rocker chairs that come with some units are really uncomfortable. A more comfortable couch (still with air bed). 
A few different mattress options to be considered as upgrades over the standard inner-spring one.
A built-in generator option 
Keeping the 'as-delivered' dry weight under 7000 lbs so those of use with somewhat newer trucks can still pull them AND put stuff in them and our truck beds!


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## Traveling Tek (Oct 15, 2010)

I would like to see.

Two more roof vents. One in the bunk area, and one in the rear bedroom. It's always so stuffy in there.
Drawer under couch. (think they maybe did this)
When the brochure says deluxe innerspring, make sure it is, and not just a foam piece of garbage

I will give props to the backup lights one. Man that would rock.


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## Tangooutback (Apr 16, 2010)

duggy said:


> For the start, I'd suggest Keystone to fix the "bubble/delaminating" problem with the fiberglass skin on Outback trailers. Second is to raise their trailers a little higher to allow more generous floor-to-ground clearance. Third is to use metal instead of plastic sleeves in the suspension hangers and shackles.


Two of your three items have been addressed to some point. My understanding is that the bulk of delamination issues have been on the front cap. The new molded cap will put an end to that. 
[/quote]

My Outback has delamination not just on front cap but also on side wall....









I'd like to add another necessary factory upgrade....Vent covers on all vent. It cost me $16 each at retail and 30 minutes labor. I am sure they can buy it for half price directly from manufacturer and 15 minutes labor to install it on assembly line.


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

I don't know about the new models, but on my 2008 2/3 of the space under the sofa is wasted. If they would have shifted the water heater one stud to the rear of the trailer and installed a storage door, I would have a second compartment twice as big as the one at the front of the trailer.


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## ORvagabond (Apr 17, 2009)

Make the pass thru storage compartment a shade higher to accommodate a Honda or Yamaha 2000 generator
Beef up the rear bumber to alloow for a bicycle rack


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## Insomniak (Jul 7, 2006)

Hire a new interior designer who isn't color blind...


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Hmmmmm, I'm thinking they do a pretty decent job given that they are mass producing a single design made to appeal to a wide audience. Sure, there are some things I personally don't like (such as the outdoor kitchen), but that certainly doesn't mean everyone doesn't like it.


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## WYOCAMPER (Mar 28, 2007)

Lower the price and toss in a free tow vehicle as an extra "perk" for choosing Outback.







JK!

We have a 2005 23RS and our first mod was an axle flip. I agree with those who commented on more ground clearance, like the new ones. And those new alum wheels looks sharp too. Much better than my white steelies. Good job Keystone!

One thing I have seen on several new fifth wheels is a rear bumper that extends back to expose a built in cargo rack for your coolers, generator, etc. Slide it out when you need it, slide it back in when you don't. Very cool!


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## Tangooutback (Apr 16, 2010)

How about an off-road model with beefed up chassis, tires, suspension and built-in electric-start generator.

Anybody from Keystone regularly cruises on this web-site?????


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## WYOCAMPER (Mar 28, 2007)

Tangooutback said:


> How about an off-road model with beefed up chassis, tires, suspension and built-in electric-start generator.
> 
> Anybody from Keystone regularly cruises on this web-site?????


"Outback Off-Road". Sign me up!


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

> How about an off-road model with beefed up chassis, tires, suspension and built-in electric-start generator


I think that would be called an Excel or some other "made for full-timing" rig.

The Outback is made to be light -- actually, only 7 years ago it was a separate company called "Lite Way". Some of you might still have a lite way spare tire cover.

But if you did what you are proposing, then you also have to beef up the entire superstructure to take the twists, bounces, and turns that you might otherwise not subject the rig to. At that point, you can kiss away "lite".

They do make rigs like you are suggesting, but just not in the Outback line.


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## duggy (Mar 17, 2010)

There are a lot of cool suggestions! I guess this thread shows just how hard it is to please everybody!









When you tour an RV show you see all kinds of these suggestions incorporated into various models. The challenge is to gain in one aspect, without losing in another.

I'm thinking Keystone has done a pretty good job of finding a balance of price, weight, amenities and quality. That's probably why so many of us own Outbacks!


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## duggy (Mar 17, 2010)

vdub said:


> > How about an off-road model with beefed up chassis, tires, suspension and built-in electric-start generator
> 
> 
> I think that would be called an Excel or some other "made for full-timing" rig.
> ...


By definition "Outback" would seem to mean "off road", but in reality for most of us, it's more a state of mind, rather than actually taking our trailers where few would dare to travel!


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## Tangooutback (Apr 16, 2010)

Here is a true off-road trailer, Bush Tracker, built in Australia. It is rugged for off road adventures but yet full of amenities.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

I just don't see myself fording a river with my Outback....


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## Traveling Tek (Oct 15, 2010)

can you imagine all that dead weight behind you will trying to offroad???









I would like to get a Sportsmobile to use as a tow vehicle. Then I can park the trailer someplace safe as a basecamp and offroad the van.

Still that not a half bad looking trailer.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

I guess if you can afford the diesel, then this might be in the running.....
wothahellizat


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## Tangooutback (Apr 16, 2010)

vdub said:


> I just don't see myself fording a river with my Outback....


I do not ford any river with my Outback and it already delaminates. I cannot imagine what I'll have left if it ford river that deep.


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

vdub said:


> I just don't see myself fording a river with my Outback....


I'm thinking pontoons between the side skits and frame would take care of it.


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## Gary (Dec 9, 2007)

I think Keystone has done a pretty good job of finding a balance of price, weight, amenities and quality. That's probably why so many of us own Outbacks!
If I was Building a 2012 Model I would take a 23ORS and put a slide out in the side like the 28ORS.
Then I would sell my 28ORS and buy a new 23ORS.
Gary


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

thefulminator said:


> I just don't see myself fording a river with my Outback....


I'm thinking pontoons between the side skits and frame would take care of it.
[/quote]

You first...


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

Someone mention the outside stove? It could be a bit wider and get rid of the sink. Has anyone ever used it? I would also like an outside shower....The pass through on the 250RS could be a tad bit wider also.


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## Tangooutback (Apr 16, 2010)

I never used the outside stove. I don't feel comfortable having a heat source so close to the fiberglass laminate wall. Besides, that stove is good for nothing than boiling water for coffee.

A fixture to hold a folding table on the rear bumper would be nice. You always need an extra table outside the camper to set up a kitchen and few other things. I carry the extra table in my truck bed, but for people with tow vehicle which is not a truck that would really come in handy.


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

Tangooutback said:


> I never used the outside stove. I don't feel comfortable having a heat source so close to the fiberglass laminate wall. Besides, that stove is good for nothing than boiling water for coffee.


We do the majority of our dinner cooking on the outside stove and have never had a problem with heat on the laminate wall. The stove is good for a whole lot more than boiling water. I fry up burger for sloppy joes or spaghetti sauce all the time. When we group camp, we make eggs, sausage and fried potatoes there.


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## rdvholtwood (Sep 18, 2008)

thefulminator said:


> I never used the outside stove. I don't feel comfortable having a heat source so close to the fiberglass laminate wall. Besides, that stove is good for nothing than boiling water for coffee.


We do the majority of our dinner cooking on the outside stove and have never had a problem with heat on the laminate wall. The stove is good for a whole lot more than boiling water. I fry up burger for sloppy joes or spaghetti sauce all the time. When we group camp, we make eggs, sausage and fried potatoes there.
[/quote]

Same here - we use it a lot!!


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## Mgonzo2u (Aug 3, 2004)

Tangooutback said:


> I never used the outside stove. I don't feel comfortable having a heat source so close to the fiberglass laminate wall. Besides, that stove is good for nothing than boiling water for coffee.


Sorry to hear that you do not use one of the most useful CAMPING amenities the OB has to offer. Our OB does not have the outside sink next to the stove and thats just fine by us. But the outside stove has received a workout (and keeps on ticking) since 2004. Cooking outside without having to set-up my portable two-burner Coleman stove is always a fun way to feel like I am outdoors.

Let me guess, you don't use the stove inside either because of the humidity it causes inside and we all know that humidity is the #1 problem for the interior of our OB's.









Give the outdoor cooker a try sometime for more than boiling water.

The neighbors might even surprise you with a compliment or two about how neat an amenity it is.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

I had a full-timer tell me that an electric skillet was top-notch for cooking outside. I bought one and use it all the time. It's great.... Very convienent, not affected by wind, and the electrical outlet is right next to my outside stove shelf.


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## Tangooutback (Apr 16, 2010)

Mgonzo2u said:


> I never used the outside stove. I don't feel comfortable having a heat source so close to the fiberglass laminate wall. Besides, that stove is good for nothing than boiling water for coffee.


Let me guess, you don't use the stove inside either because of the humidity it causes inside and we all know that humidity is the #1 problem for the interior of our OB's.









Give the outdoor cooker a try sometime for more than boiling water.
[/quote]

The inside stove and burners are brand spanking new....







No way I am going to mess up the camper's interior by cooking inside the camper. The most cooking I ever did inside the camper is toasting bread. On the other hand the microwave oven is heavily used...









When I go camping it is usually with a big family of at least ten persons. The outside burners are too small. Big frying pan does not fit in there. Cooking so close to the camper wall would end up with splashes on the wall. To be safe and to keep it clean, I always bring along a folding table and cook with electric skillets, electric frying pans, propane stove and Coleman dual fuel burners.


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## Mgonzo2u (Aug 3, 2004)

Tangooutback said:


> I never used the outside stove. I don't feel comfortable having a heat source so close to the fiberglass laminate wall. Besides, that stove is good for nothing than boiling water for coffee.


Let me guess, you don't use the stove inside either because of the humidity it causes inside and we all know that humidity is the #1 problem for the interior of our OB's.









Give the outdoor cooker a try sometime for more than boiling water.
[/quote]

The inside stove and burners are brand spanking new....







No way I am going to mess up the camper's interior by cooking inside the camper. The most cooking I ever did inside the camper is toasting bread. On the other hand the microwave oven is heavily used...









When I go camping it is usually with a big family of at least ten persons. The outside burners are too small. Big frying pan does not fit in there. Cooking so close to the camper wall would end up with splashes on the wall. *To be safe and to keep it clean, I always bring along a folding table and cook with electric skillets, electric frying pans, propane stove and Coleman dual fuel burners.*[/quote]

lol

Ahhhh....a regular traveling Food Truck (read: roach coach) set-up within a traveling Food Truck set-up.









As long as you promise me you are enjoying yourself, I've got no beef with the way you roll.

Happy trails....


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## Tangooutback (Apr 16, 2010)

Oh yes, my camper is already known as the chuck wagon....


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## Traveling Tek (Oct 15, 2010)

vdub said:


> I had a full-timer tell me that an electric skillet was top-notch for cooking outside. I bought one and use it all the time. It's great.... Very convienent, not affected by wind, and the electrical outlet is right next to my outside stove shelf.


Yeah we have used our outdoor stove maybe twice in the 75k+ miles since we got it. We do however use the electric skillet all the time. This doesn't work well for those that camp places with no modern conveniences like electricity though.









We full time in our so we aren't really camping anyhow. We don't get up in the morning and go outside to make breakfast and stuff like that.

I think it would be great if that outside kitchen thing on the 301bq was modular. I would swap out the sink and stove for a grill in an instant.


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## Tangooutback (Apr 16, 2010)

Traveling Tek said:


> I had a full-timer tell me that an electric skillet was top-notch for cooking outside. I bought one and use it all the time. It's great.... Very convienent, not affected by wind, and the electrical outlet is right next to my outside stove shelf.


We full time in our so we aren't really camping anyhow. We don't get up in the morning and go outside to make breakfast and stuff like that. 
.
[/quote]

For us campers who camp a dozen times a year it may be great fun to cook outside, but if I full time in an Outback it would be a pain to do that everyday...particularly on days where weather does not cooperate. However, I have not seen a camper with a vent hood which was ducted outside to keep the air inside clean. This would be the first mod if I am to full time in an RV.


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

There is some hope for those who've had the condensation/mildew problem in the outdoor kitchen. Last fall I threw a single packet of Sta-Dri in the the outdoor kitchen and when I finally opened it up a few days ago, there were no problems at all. Now all I have to do is recharge (dry it out in the oven) and it's ready for next fall.


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## Tangooutback (Apr 16, 2010)

How many charge/recharge cycles can you get out of that bag?


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Wow, we'd be impossible to satisfy with one line of trailers. Personally, the only reason I didn't get back into an OB was that they keep getting taller (read more drag), and they keep getting heavier.... 
I'd settle for fewer options and less space for a major drop in weight and height (oh wait, I already did that!!!).


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## thefulminator (Aug 8, 2007)

Tangooutback said:


> How many charge/recharge cycles can you get out of that bag?


From Beach Filers:

_Sta-Dri®:
Sta-Dri® pouches are the best insurance against moisture damage to your products. Each pouch is made from spun-bonded polyester outer shell and contains 100% natural diatomaceous clay desiccant to adsorb moisture from the air. Sta-Dri® pouches come in 1, 2 and 4 pound sizes and are ideal for use in shipping cartons or storage spaces to keep your valuables safe from the ravages of rust, mold, and mildew. Beach Sta-Dri® pouches can be regenerated up to 3 times in a normal oven at 250 degrees F for 6 to 12 hours.

Controlled studies by the U.S. Military have shown that corrosion and growth of mildew are greatly reduced if the relative humidity is kept below 30% at 70° F(25° C). In controlled conditions, tests show for over 15 years, Sta-Dri® has protected valuable overseas cargo shipments for the transportation industry.

Features and benefits:

o Are completely safe; all materials are inert
o Are nontoxic, nonflammable, odorless, and non-corrosive
o Ideal for use with expensive antiques, autos and firearms
o Remain unchanged in size, shape or texture
o Can be regenerated 3 times in a conventional oven
_

$7 for four years use. I can live with that.

At CampingWorld


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## therink (May 13, 2010)

I love my outback, but a couple things that I would recommend:
1) the outside stove/sink is a joke. The cheapest po* I've seen. When the stove gets hot enough, the gas valves get real hot too. The spigot on the sink lasted about 3 months before corrosion wasted the quick connect.
2) how about a $100 stereo instead of the $20 system and decent speakers.
3) tires that provide peace of mind after 30 days
4) one step up on the quality of aluminum skirting material
5) more substantial wheel wells, not the cheesey darco fabric

That's it. Overall I am quite happy after one year with this one.


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## outbackmomma (May 5, 2011)

I have to totally back Jewelfamily on the toilet paper holder...I couldn't believe that $27,000 didn't get you a toilet paper holder! And I also agree with inomniak on the interior decorating. We got the better of the two...midnight blue, but it's still kind of ugly. I would add...move those floor vents. At least the first one in our 210RS, is in the perfect spot to collect massive amounts of pine needles. Alos the "coat" closet. Who are they kidding? The thing is two feet long and four feet deep...it's hugely impractical.


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