# Sway Problem - Excursion And 31rqs



## 6anthonys (May 16, 2006)

Going from Dallas to Wisconsin this summer. About 3000 miles. I am having sway and fish tailing problem with my new 31 RQS. I have a 2005 Excursion 4x2 Diesel. I am thinking about installing air lift suspension and a Hensley traile hitch. I appreciate any input or advice......

6anthonys


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

Welcome!!!!!

What are you using as your current sway control? What type of hith setup do you have?

The Hensley is a great product. However, quite expensive.

Give us some more info on your setup!

Happy Outbacking!

Tim


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

6anthonys,

Hey, first of all, welcome to the forum! I, too, have the 31. What a trailer!

I use the Equalizer hitch and experience little sway and that's only when a wind gust hits me sideways.

I'm sure if you want to spend the bucks, the Hensley will take care of that for you.

Enjoy your trip.

BTW, I assume you're another Texan Outbacker. Check out our threads on Texas Rallies (South Central).

Mark


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## 6anthonys (May 16, 2006)

Thanks for the welcome! I am using the Excursions hitch mount, standard hitch, also 10000 pound suspension bars and an antisway bar. I am not sure of the manufacturers, but I will check this weekend.

How expensive is the Hensley?



Highlander96 said:


> Welcome!!!!!
> 
> What are you using as your current sway control? What type of hith setup do you have?
> 
> ...


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## 6anthonys (May 16, 2006)

My main sway issue is when a diesel truck comes by on the highway. It feels like I am being sucked in to their path. It is not a critical problem, but it is annoying enough to make me find a solution.



6anthonys said:


> Thanks for the welcome! I am using the Excursions hitch mount, standard hitch, also 10000 pound suspension bars and an antisway bar. I am not sure of the manufacturers, but I will check this weekend.
> 
> How expensive is the Hensley?
> 
> ...


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Hensley's go for about $3000!

Mark


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

I'm sure everyone gets some movement when the semis pass by. I use an Equalizer hitch and have virtually no sway problems. When the big rigs pass me, the trailer and TV together get some movement towards the truck, but not the trailer itself. The Equalizer's sway control is mechanical and does a great job. I can watch the rear side marker light of the trailer in my side mirror; it doesn't move a bit.

If you are using a friction style sway control, then you have too much trailer for that set up to work with much reliability.


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## 6anthonys (May 16, 2006)

I think I am going to start with beefing up the Excursion suspension. Maybe an AirBag Suspension setup....



GoVols said:


> I'm sure everyone gets some movement when the semis pass by. I use an Equalizer hitch and have virtually no sway problems. When the big rigs pass me, the trailer and TV together get some movement towards the truck, but not the trailer itself. The Equalizer's sway control is mechanical and does a great job. I can watch the rear side marker light of the trailer in my side mirror; it doesn't move a bit.
> 
> If you are using a friction style sway control, then you have too much trailer for that set up to work with much reliability.
> [snapback]110736[/snapback]​


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## Kenstand (Mar 25, 2004)

I had the Reese friction bar set-up and it worked okay but I did get some uncomfortable dancing when a semi passed or a car would ride the rear corner of the trailer. I upgraded from the friction bar to a dual cam setup and things seem better now.

Have fun in Wisconsin!


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

6anthonys said:


> I think I am going to start with beefing up the Excursion suspension. Maybe an AirBag Suspension setup....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Save your money on the Airbags. The only thing that will do is beef up your rear. You don't need that. You need to address SWAY, not suspension stiffness. The Excursion is build on the Ford HD frame, not a 150.

Buy an Equalizer or Reese Dual Cam setup. It will be the best $300-$500 you will ever spend.

-H96


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Along with the advice above if you plan on a lot of towing with this rig you may want to go to LT rated tires. It will really help.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

action *Welcome to Outbackers, 6anthonys!* action 
That is one nice Outback you have there!









Regarding your 'sway' issue...

It would help to know more about what you have now. The Hensley is a great setup, but at $3,000 I would look at other options first! Both the Equal-i-zer and Reese Dual-Cam HP are great sway/WD setups as well (and a lot less expensive).

Just having the hitch setup is not enough though. It is imperative that it be 'tuned' correctly. If not, you get none of the benefits it has to offer. Past experience also suggests that most dealers do not have the know-how or want to take the time to do this correctly, so I would look deeper into that first.

One of your last posts, however, caught my attention. You say that the main problem is the feeling you are 'being sucked into' passing trucks. This is not sway. No sway device in the world will counteract what is happening there. Sway is when your trailer and tow vehicle start moving independantly of each other by pivoting about the hitch. Unresolved, the resulting oscilations will intensify leading to eventual loss of control. Sway control hitches (Hensley or otherwise) are designed to dampen this movement and keep the trailer and tow vehicle acting more or less as a single unit.

In the case of the passing truck, if your tow vehicle vehicle and trailer are being 'sucked' into it as a unit - without a sway component as well - then that is simply the low pressure area (venturi effect) caused by air accelerating between the two vehicles. Try to increase the distance between your rig and the truck as much as possible. Widening the gap, reduces the effect.

Hope this helps!

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

Not much more I can add here. I have similar posts regarding the pulling / pushing from passing semi's but my combo acts as one.

Do the LT tires help bring stability and reduce the push/pull effects?


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## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

PDX_Doug said:


> action *Welcome to Outbackers, 6anthonys!* action
> That is one nice Outback you have there!
> 
> 
> ...


What he said. You can't fight physics, and when that big 'ole rig passes you, the air blast will push you sideways a bit, no matter your setup. But if you're moving sideways as a straight truck would, versus having your trailer pull your hind end around, then you're probably set up correctly.

The Hensley will turn your whole rig into a virtual 5th wheel, so sway will be completely eliminated, no ifs-ands-or-buts. If a Hensley doesn't solve your sway problem, you never had one!

Kevin P.


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## Humpty (Apr 20, 2005)

"Buy an Equalizer or Reese Dual Cam setup. It will be the best $300-$500 you will ever spend."

Ditto


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

> Do the LT tires help bring stability and reduce the push/pull effects?


Made a big difference for us going from P's to LT's



> Along with the advice above if you plan on a lot of towing with this rig you may want to go to LT rated tires. It will really help.


His Excursion should have LT tires on it already, if it doesn't, somebody made a big mistake somewhere.

Mike


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

camping479 said:


> Made a big difference for us going from P's to LT's
> 
> Mike
> [snapback]110842[/snapback]​


Mike, I see you have a similar TV. Any suggestions on a good LT? I heard the Bridgestone Duelers / Revos were decent.


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

I just put a set on Revos on my Suburban and they are great. Very quiet and great traction. I upgraded from the LT245/75R16E to LT265/75R16E.

Gary


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

campmg said:


> camping479 said:
> 
> 
> > Made a big difference for us going from P's to LT's
> ...


I've read good things about the Revo's Fire44 has. I have Dunlop radial rovers and they have served me well. I've got 245/75R16's load range E. They have the same diameter as the 265/70's they replaced.

Mike


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## 6anthonys (May 16, 2006)

Thanks for the great feedback. You are right. It is not a sway problem. The problem is when I am running 65 in the slow lane and a truck going 70 passes in the fast lane I get sucked into that lane. Maybe it is "venturi effect", but it makes me very nervous. I did not notice it too much on my 29" Keystone, but the new Outback seems to get sucked in more.

I am running LT tires. I think I am going to put air suspension on it and upgrade to Equal-i-zer or Reese Dual-Cam HP.



PDX_Doug said:


> action *Welcome to Outbackers, 6anthonys!* action
> That is one nice Outback you have there!
> 
> 
> ...


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## kbrazielTx (Apr 29, 2004)

The Equalizer will help with this but when someone comes flying by it will not remove the problem entirely. A 35' Trailer that is 12' Tall just has that problem. The Hensley is the only setup that might remove it totally.

Come join us at some Texas Rallys!!!!! They are great fun and you get some really good ideas.

Great Outbacking!!!!!!!
KB


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

6anthonys said:


> I did not notice it too much on my 29" Keystone, but the new Outback seems to get sucked in more.


Just a guess here, but the Outback may be a good bit lighter than your old TT.
That would mean less mass to move, thus the suction could have a greater effect.

Still, you should not be experiencing to much pull. We only notice it as we break the front end wake from the passing (of being passed







) truck. When the nose of the truck is between about ten feet ahead, and ten feet behind, the nose of our Titan of us, I will get a slight - but noticable - tug toward the truck. Once clear of that wake zone, the Titan/Outback tracks true and steady.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

No reason to add air bags.
Add an equalizer hitch and drop the nose of the trailer a little bit.
i had the same problem with getting sucked into passing trucks.
Dropping the nose of the trailer so that it is only slightly nose down seems to have taken care of it.


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## Excursions R Us (Jan 25, 2006)

I too have an Excursion ('02 7.3L) as well as the 31 RQS, which I was thinking about off loading on our way up from Florida to Toronto because of the sway from trucks even with the Hensley, until I realized that my bars were not tightened (first trip with everything and I did not install the Hensley). Once I tightened them ( and they have stayed tightened since) AWAY WENT THE SWAY!!! to the point where I would let my wife drive. I don't know the difference on with the other set ups, however I did have the reese anti sway with WD bars on my astro van with a 21' Trail lite and had sway problems with that when on the highways. I do not regret spending the 3000+ Canadian dollars on the Hensley and highly recommend doing that before spending $$$ on truck modifications! Hey if you are not satisfied with the HEnsley they will give you all your money back.

Best wishes and hope you ennjoy the trailer as much as we do!

Rob


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## bweiler (Sep 20, 2005)

I just got a Hensley installed last month after towing all last fall with a friction sway Draw Tite LD hitch. Worth every penny. I did have sway issues, but I also noticed the venturi effect as well. Now a semi passing is no more of the venturi effect than what you would see when you are not towing anything at all...Sway is totally gone.








So are my high blood pressure and white knuckles









It's a lot of coin, but worth it..







I would have asked for the $$ back if it wasn't.


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

I tend to agree with the others, double check the setup of your WD system, and ditch the friction bar for another system. If your already using a Reeseor Draw-Tite WD hitch, you should be able to step up to the Dual Cam sway for less then $200. Take the time to set it up correctly, and it should take care of most of your problem.

On another note, when my DW asked if our Excursion could tow a Sydney, (after seeing one at last weeks Northeast Rally) I told her, yes but we'd need a Hensley. I have never heard anyone whose had one return it for the full refund. Personally, I would spend the money on the hitch before money on the airbags.

Tim


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## ChopperCop (Oct 2, 2005)

I have an '03 Excursion. I don't think that the airbags will help your problem. The airbags will raise the rear end of you TV. Unless your Outback is making the Ex. squat then they won't do anything for you (if you have a problem with axle wrap they could help, but thats another subject). On my Ex. when hooked up with our 28rss, I only have a half inch of squat.

Bob


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## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

kbrazielTx said:


> The Hensley is the only setup that might remove it totally.
> 
> [snapback]111008[/snapback]​


Nah, that's just the force of wind against that big old trailer and truck. Even without the trailer, our Sequoia gets pushed around a little by big winds.
Kevin P.


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## chetlenox (Feb 3, 2004)

Bob,

I've heard the term "axle wrap" before, what is it? What is the symptom?

Chet.


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

HI!
I took my camper to the shop, yesterday, and went via US 84 and I-75. I had read this thread, and tried to stay a further distance away from the 18 wheelers, like Doug was talking, to "test" his theory. His theory is correct!! Thanks, Doug. I have the 27RSDS and run a friction sway bar with the Reese equalizer bars. The only problem I experienced was when wind gusts hit me going over exposed bridges, and I don't think ANYTHING will help with that, when it's hitting you about 30 MPH! I really appreciate the help, Doug, as I'm heading up I-75 North on a 4-5 hour drive, in the morning! It will certainly cut back on stress!! sunny 
Darlene action


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## ChopperCop (Oct 2, 2005)

chetlenox said:


> Bob,
> 
> I've heard the term "axle wrap" before, what is it? What is the symptom?
> 
> ...


Chet,

Check out this link: http://www.activesuspension.com/how05.htm

Bob


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## chetlenox (Feb 3, 2004)

Thanks Bob, nice article explaining...










Sounds like it wouldn't necessarily apply to us though. I mean, it says:

"Axle wrap occurs when the rotational force of the tires causes the axlehousing to twist or rotate. This rotation forces the springs to bend into an S-shape. When the axlehousing rotates far enough, forces cause the tires to loose traction, and jump, or "hop". Once traction is lost, the springs snap back into their original positions."

So I'm sure we all have the axle "wrapping" when we accelerate and decelerate, but this "snap back" should only occure when the tires actually break traction. Since most of us aren't burning rubber when we launch with our trailer in tow, I assume we'd only see the effect if we have a hard emergency stop? A (probably serious) vibration of some kind?

Chet.


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## mdombroski (Mar 7, 2006)

mswalt said:


> 6anthonys,
> 
> Hey, first of all, welcome to the forum! I, too, have the 31. What a trailer!
> 
> ...


Hi 6anthonys and Mark,

I have a GMC Yukon XL (3/4 ton), 31RQS, and an Equal-i-zer hitch. We experience very little sway. There is a slight movement on the trailer when passing a Semi- truck and is normal. However, it is not much.

We just finished a 5200 mile road trip from Washington State ----> Texas ----> California -----> Washington. We had no problems with stability and safety. My wife and I are very comfortable driving at all highway speeds. We have no problems on steep grades and curves.

I highly recommend the Equalizer hitch.

Regards,

- Mark


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

> is a slight movement on the trailer when passing a Semi- truck and is normal. However, it is not much.


Mark,

My "sway probem" is pretty much what you describe. Very little wiggle when driving down the road, but occasionally a wind gust or semi will move the trailer a little.

I, too, am happy with the Equalizer.

Mark


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## mdombroski (Mar 7, 2006)

mswalt said:


> > is a slight movement on the trailer when passing a Semi- truck and is normal. However, it is not much.
> 
> 
> Mark,
> ...


Mark, you and I pretty much have the same trailer, hitch and TV setup.

I recall encountering some windy areas during our road trip. The trailer acted as a big sail and you could feel it move with the gusty wind.

However, the trailer movement never developed into an oscillation or uncontrollable movement.

The wind was uncomfortable and we drove a bit slower, but seemed safe.

- Mark


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## six_anthonys (Aug 7, 2006)

Well I upgraded to the Reese Dual cam setup for $650.00 and I am happy to report after the 3000 mile trip it is great! I strongly recommend this setup to anyone.

six_anthonys


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

six_anthonys said:


> Well I upgraded to the Reese Dual cam setup for $650.00 and I am happy to report after the 3000 mile trip it is great! I strongly recommend this setup to anyone.
> 
> six_anthonys


Glad to hear the set-up has worked well for you









Don


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## WMIOUTBACK (Apr 4, 2005)

To echo what Doug and others have said...you can have the best anti-sway system, but if it's not set-up properly, it will be worthless. I have an 01 Excursion and the 28RSS. I spent 2.5 hours adjusting the Equal-i-zer according to the instructions. I have about a 1/2" difference between the front and back of the Ex and it tows great. I would highly recommend the Equal-i-zer.


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## benhodgkins (Jul 29, 2006)

I'm not yet a true "Outbacker" as I have not taken delivery of our OB (maybe tonight!) but I learned a lot about trailer sway the hard way this summer. For the last few years we pulled a 29' Prowler TT with our K2500 Suburban. The effect that the OP mentioned of the camper and truck being pushed around by tractor trailers was very troubling, and made towing unpleasant. After 4 or 5 hours of highway towing I would be exhausted from having to focus so much on watching for passing tractors and counteracting their push/pull. I looked into anti-sway devices and other types of hitch systems, Pull-Rite and the Hensley Arrow. I upgraded the Sub's tires to BF Goodrich LTs which had a much stiffer sidewall than the passenger tires that were originally on the TV and felt that I could live with the reduced sway I was now getting.

At the end of June we loaded up the rig for our summer vacation, destination Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia, 800 miles away. I have a checklist which I go through before each trip which includes checking tire pressures, etc. All was fine. I'm not sure what was different, but I was noticing that the rig was a bit more prone to sway than it had been on previous trips. I kept my speed down, and watched for tractors. It wasn't "white knuckle" driving, but it wasn't pleasant, either. About 300 miles into the trip things got very Unpleasant. It was just South of Bangor, Maine, while passing a large U-Haul truck that was towing a trailer. He was in the right lane going kind of slow - he was having some sway as well... it may have gotten gusty out. As I passed him, my speed at about 65, I decided I needed to give him a bit more leeway, as his sway was unpredictable. Without warning, my trailer started swinging back and forth. Trying to steer the truck strait seemed to exacerbate the problem, so I locked my arms and held the wheel steady. By now the trailer was all over the place back there. I reached for the brake controller and it seemed like slow motion. At the same time my hand reached the controller the trailer lunged off the highway and we went with it. The trailer rolled, and decoupled from the ball, but the chains kept the two vehicles attached. The truck slid sideways down the embankment with the trailer barrel-rolling behind us. At the end of our terrifying slide, the downhill truck tires dug into the soft soil and we rolled onto our side.

I couldn't believe what had just happened - I don't know how long I sat there, sideways in the seat, the kids in the back wailing, trying to come to grips with the situation. I was alone with the 4 kids (my wife was going to meet us in Cape Breton as she had plans that kept her from traveling with us.) I had heard glass breaking when we flipped. I knew the trailer and the truck would be a mess, but I just prayed that none of the kids were hurt. I turned back and started to calm them down, and within a few seconds there were one or two guys up on the side of the truck, prying the door open and helping us all out of the battered Suburban. The kids were all OK, not a scratch, but my oldest daughter was hysterical. One of the gals who stopped gave the kids sweatshirts as she knew they were going to get cold from the shock. (I never found out who any of our Samaritans were, but God knows, and they will be rewarded better than I'd ever be able to...)

So the trailer was a total. Most of the contents were lost. The MGS (Mighty Green Suburban) has been in the shop for three weeks getting extensive plastic surgery, and we've picked out a beautiful 28RSS to replace the Prowler. On Monday I took delivery of a Pull-Rite hitch, the hitch that I should have bought in the first place. It is an amazing piece of engineering. It looks heavy duty enough to tow a house, and yet this is only the 10,000 pound hitch, they make one rated for 20,000 pounds, too! I obviously haven't towed with it yet, but from all of my research, and believe me, I did my homework on this, the Pull-Rite will not allow trailer sway to push the TV around like every conventional hitch does. After the accident some friends were surprised that I was actually shopping for a new trailer- they thought I'd never have the nerve to hitch up again. Well, they're partly correct... I'll never again tow a large trailer with a conventional hitch, but I'm actually looking forward to connecting the 28RSS to the MGS with the Pull-Rite and "hitting the road." Not to put too blunt of a point on my long-winded post, but if you arenâ€™t comfortable with your rig, donâ€™t even take it out of the driveway. There are solutions out there, the Pull-Rite and the Hensley Arrow. They ainâ€™t cheap - nothing good is - but what they can save you is priceless.

-Ben


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

What a story...Glad all were unharmed. You said it correctly.


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## snsgraham (May 18, 2004)

Ben,
You are one lucky cat!!
I too was having some issues towing our non-Outback, Hensley was my answer and solution.

Good luck in the future!
Scott


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## 3LEES (Feb 18, 2006)

Thank God you and your kids are ok. I've towed 2500 miles in one trip and did not experience anything close to your situation. And I hope I never do!

Oh.....

Welcome to the best Forum on the web!

There are a bunch of great people here!










Dan


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## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

Ben, my brother, I may be one of the only people in the world who can honestly say "I've been there"

We Crashed

It's sucks beyond words to feel the vehicle in your hands and the family in your care hurtle down the highway uncontrolled despite your best of intentions and efforts. Thank goodness no one was hurt in your crash or mine.

Oh, and as you can tell from the signature, we also upgraded our hitch. Whenever anyone whines that it costs too much, I think to myself, "No, it's actually dirt cheap, all things considered."









Kevin P.


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## stapless (Feb 20, 2005)

ben, welcome to the outbacker family!!









we debated alot before going with the HA. the $$







factor is a huge barrier. I had a reece dual cam, and yes, it was set up correctly. we got into a bad sway situation one time last year as well







. fortunately, i got it back under control before crashing. i used to think it couldn't happen to me as i had 'done everything right'. however, i knew that day that i was going with a safer hitch. unfortunately, as you and kevin can attest to, you just don't always know how much you need it until its too late.

my HA is night and day better







. DW even enjoys driving now. thanks for sharing your story. it must have been terrifying. I'm sure you will love the OB, and i think your choice for the pullrite is a great investment in safety and towing satisfaction for you and your family.

some will argue that the 'marginal' increase in safety is very small and not worth the price. they might be right. for us, i'm very happy with my decision as i'm sure you will be as well.

scott


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