# 300Bh Questions



## letscamp (Jan 22, 2010)

First off I am new here and *I really wish I found this site sooner!* So off with my first post. I have been looking into all the different TT out there and think I found the perfect one. The Outback 300BH Its light, well what I think it's light for something that's so big, and has lots of room for the growing family! As of right now its just my wife and our 14mo, but were going to be having more soon. My questions are

1. Everyone family/friends is pushing me towards going as big as you can right out the gate so that 3-4 years down the road the family does not grow out of it. Is this a good idea?

2. There are more than a few dealerships out here, but only a very few that can sell the outbacks. The price I am " for is $26,500, the dealer just sold their last one for 23,000 but it was on their lot for close to 11mo both 2010. They said my wife and I would get to pick what we wanted in it for that price and it would be here in 6 to 10 weeks. Is this a good price for something ordered new? By the way I'm talking about Stires rv at camping world.

3. They also gave me a " for around 800.00 for all the towing bars sway stuff brake controller and install on a 07 ford expedition? Its that fair? I priced out most of it and would save around 200 doing in myself, but I'm hearing that stuff can go bad quickly in some cases, Stires says they have lifetime parts and labor for it.

4. Any thing any of you can throw into here that everyone forgets when they bought for the first time and or stuff the dealer tries to get you on good or bad.

Some more info; Live in CA about 1 hr north of LA. Have used a friends old school 19ft terry early 90's something several times and loved every min of it. So the use will be high. Will be mostly summer camping at the beach/local lakes. The large space inside is what I'm interested in because of our 14mo and wife.

Thank you all and I'm looking forward to having some questions answered by humans, not rv sales staff.


----------



## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Your going to get a lot of replies and some you may not like.

1 - Depends on what you really want when you camp and how you plan to use the trailer. That is a very big (at the price quoted) and expensive trailer. Do you plan to use it two or three times a month or just a few times total during the summer?

I suggest you get a smaller trailer to fit your current and near future needs. Learn how much you will or will not enjoy what you do with it. Learn what really is important to you then upgrade to the long term answer.

2 - Where are you located? Your price is high and there are dealers that are much cheaper.

3 - The trailer you are looking at may be more then you really want to tow with your Expedition. As for the towing equipment, we need to know brand names to know if the $800 is a good deal or not.

4 - There is a very good PDI check list on the site that I am sure will be posted here for you to use as a guide.

Also welcome to the site and ask lots of questions before you buy and you will be MUCH happier after you buy.


----------



## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Welcome to the site!!!









I completely understand what your family and friends are saying. Many of us on here have bought a TT only to upgrade within 2 years because we wanted more room.









Now, 2 words of caution:

1st: that beautiful 300BH is going to be a little much for your Expedition I suspect. I had a 28RSDS (30'11" total length) and I found it was too much for my F150. Expect loaded tounge weights on these beasts to be at or above 1000 lbs. The Expedition will physically be able to tow it, but you'll likely be over the GVWR of the Expedition, and I bet over the GCWR as well when loaded up. That means decreased life of the truck, and no margin for error if something goes wrong while towing. The difference in towing between a 1/2 ton chassis and a 3/4 ton chassis on a trailer like that is night and day. Now there are people out there doing it of course, and most go through their travels without any problems, but please be aware of your vehicle's limits.

2nd: Ok, now here's the fun one....








What type of camping do you want to do? A bigger TT is more roomy and really is like a home. Heck, we're currently in a 35' 5er that has 2 bedrooms and feels like home (I think a couple on here have 3 bedroom 1 1/2 bath models that are about the size of my first house). That being said, we are looking to trade in the next 12-16 months to something much smaller. Why? Well, because we have a nice home and want to use the camper for camping... Again, this is a very person specific thing, and you are just as likely to enjoy the added space. I'm just saying, think about what you really want prior to letting others tell you what you want...









Ok, finally, for prices, call either Lakeshore RV (Michigan) or Homan RV (Ohio) to get the lowest price you'll likely be able to find. Then either negotiate a price at your local dealer that you are both happy with or take the big road trip!


----------



## mike (Dec 17, 2006)

we started with a durango 5.9l and a 23 rs. We then upgraded to a 3/4 ton suburban and then a 27 rsds which definately meets our needs. However due to the lenghth of our trips, last year we did a nine week 9800 mile trip we are considering a diesel pusher class a. One concern of ours is that we like " roughing it", well its not really roughing it with a tt, but we go to places with no electricity, etc. The one difficulty of those places is finding a site to fit a big tt or class a. Another concern is that tow vehicle of yours. Not sure but with a 30' tt it is probably a little bit too big. Another concern is wt dist/sway control. Most here either like the equalizer (which we love) or the reese dual cam?.

Another way to help u is to let us know where u are located. Outbackmac has been trying to sell his 28bhs, which is is great shape. We all know dealers in our area that are good and ones that are not so good. We also are in the belief of buying used. You tend to get a way better deal and that may allow u to upgrade your tow vehicle.

My favorite dealer is just outside of chicago, Timvberview rv and paul is excellant. I believe someone posted on this site that they bought one from him and came up from Az to pick it up. To give u an example, We bought our 2005 27rsds in 2008 for 13100. To us that was a pretty good deal.

Also after u have used it for awhile u will find things that work for u and ur fam. I strongly suggest buying used getting a feel for it and then if u want to buy new u wont get beat up too bad.

good luck and welcome to outbackers.

mike


----------



## letscamp (Jan 22, 2010)

I don't know if I am doing this right but clicking reply, but I added some info into the first post and I will try in here. 
Some more info; Live in CA about 1 hr north of LA. Have used a friends old school 19ft terry early 90's something several times and loved every min of it. So the use will be high. Will be mostly summer camping at the beach/local lakes. The large space inside is what I'm interested in because of our 14mo and wife.

The TV is rated at 9200 and most places we are planning to go have full hook-ups so were not taking for the drive there. The longest trip were planning this year is 280 miles away. The rest are all with in 80 miles away. I'm planning on buying a used f-250 from my bro in law n a year or two so we can do the longer trips.

Thank you all and the feed back is making me think of the stuff I would not think of.


----------



## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

2 schools of thought here. 1. As CamperAndy pointed out would be wait and see what you like and dont like before you invest alot of money. 2. Would be to get the biggest thing you can afford so you dont have to do it again. Its a very personal choice. I'm 47 and I have been buying toys my whole life and I will admit you always want to buy a better one. I've had boats, motorcycles and snowmobiles. So i subscribe to the theory of getting what you want the first time around which is why the 300BH is my first camper. But, I'm not sure you have enough knowledge to even know what you'll like and not like. I can tell you I've had mine for 4 mos and I still look at everything else. I kinda wish I had a bigger bathroom and bedroom. My kids are grown and the extra room is for guests but I wish I had more room for me. There's really no perfect camper, there's always compromises. The only way to cure this is to STOP LOOKING! Anyway someone else here, I think Nathan, calls it upgradeitis and its contagious LOL! Point is, think it thru very carefully. Dont lose focus on the camping experience itself and worry too much about the actual camper. I would say even if youy buy the 300BH there is still a strong probability of trading in a couple years anyway. We guys have a way of finding an excuse. And if you do buy it you will probably be looking to upgrade your tow vehicle right away. The dealers will tell you your Expy is enough but it is just barely adequate and maybe not enough at all. Most people here and in the campgrounds pull a 30 footer with a 3/4 ton or bigger. My half ton is rated for 7500lbs but I dont like using it and I pull mine with a V10 Excursion, which is a 3/4 ton chassis. Its like trying to pound a nail with a toy hammer. Get the right tool for the job. So to sum it up, you might be better with a smaller cheaper trailer to get started. But if you buy the big one you wouldnt be the first to go down that road. Welcome to camping. Keep asking questions.


----------



## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

BTW, here in OH were surrounded by discount retailers so that price would be high. I paid 21900+tax in Aug. But lately I'm seeing it at 24999 at the same dealers so maybe the price is up or the market is better. I dunno I could have bought at the perfect time.


----------



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Welcome to the site...Glad you found us.

I was in the situation you're in when we wanted to move up from a Coleman Popup. I had an Expedition at the time and wanted a 28RSS. The wise folks on this site clearly defined the situation for me and end the end I ended up buy a 3/4 ton Suburban. You on get one chance to protect your family and towing a ~7500 trailer at 65mph will mean the Truck/SUV will need to be up to the job of stopping controlling that trailer when/if something goes wrong. (off topic kinda...people will constantly cut you off...dart in front of you on the freeway, as they don't want to be stuck behind you...just keep in eye out that that). If you can use your BIL's truck this summer for the camping weekends...then I'd say get the 300BH now. From your posting it appears your family is already hooked on camping (which is GREAT!!) so get what you want now...use BIL's truck...then buy his truck later when $$ allows.

Pricing.... My wife and decided last spring to upgrade from our 28RSS to a bit bigger trailer. We were back and forth between the 301BQ and 310BH. WE finally went with the 301BQ as it offered a better room for us (the parents) and still a bunk house for the kids. Now, to buy!! I called up and down the West coast (I'm in Oregon) and the best deal I could find was about $8,000 more than Lakeshore (Michigan). We decided to make it a family vacation and drove out there. Had a GREAT trip...hooked up with Ridgeway Rangers (great familly....everyone should spend time with them!) and saw a bunch of great stuff along the way. Bottom line...I saved right around $7,000 AFTER factoring in fuel. (I don't count food...as we would have to eat regardless).


----------



## TexanThompsons (Apr 21, 2009)

Welcome to the site! So glad to hear another family getting into an Outback!

I think you've heard enough regarding the TV. We have te 310BH and towed it for a short while with an 03 Expedition. Not a fun experience. What we found was that there was ok power and stopping, just too short of a wheelframe. Another oddity, was that the equalizer hitch required so much torque to get the expedition somewhat level that the tension on the weight distribution bars was too much for my tv to handle causing the me to have to compensate by oversteering (verified with equalizer folks and bottom line, the expy isn't heavy enough to handle that tension). Needless to say, not a safe situation. I am now towing with a 2009 3/4 ton chevy pickup and in hte market for an Excursion (you'll see why next paragraph).

We are a family of 3 kiddos, all 5 and under with #4 due this June (yup, that will bite into camping season, but we live in TX and get to camp all year). We got the larger trailer straight out of the box #1 because we can afford it easily and #2 my wife wanted a place that had a separate bedroom area big enough to put a pack n play. We don't regret buying the trailer at all, just regret listening to our trailer dealer who said our expedition was car enough for that trailer. Anyway, if you can afford it, go for it. We dont regret the larger trailer because my wife loves it. Not sure she would enjoy a smaller trailer.

Its your personal choice. Just know that if you buy that trailer, you may get upgradeitis for a new tv soon! Keep us posted!

JT


----------



## 5th Time Around (Jul 8, 2008)

Well as our name suggests, we are 5 campers in 10 years







Only one of those was bought new.

We had a Suburban and a 30' TT, and the Suburban couldn't handle it, we barely could go 55 on the highway. So we ended up trading the Suburban for a F250 Diesel and then traded the TT for a fifth wheel.

Your kids are young and will be around a long time. I think the suggestion of using the BIL f250 to tow it is a good idea. With 3 -4 kids I definately would want the space.

Keep asking questions, there is so much to learn and this is a great place to learn.


----------



## letscamp (Jan 22, 2010)

The info I'm hearing is great and I thank you all very much. JT said something that I almost forgot to say. The room in the back of the 300bh was a big deal to my wife and I because we can put a pack n play in there. I'm starting to worry about pulling it with the expd though and hope it will work for the time being. I have an f-150 but its only a 4.6. Someone said pulling the TT could only get going 55 mph with their exp and well here in CA if your towing thats the max speed plus you have to stay in the right two lanes on the freeway, chp will get you every time.

But I do want to know will it truly be in issue of safety or just taking a lot longer to get where your going until I can get the f250? Also I talked to the sales rep again and he said the prices were raised this year as the outback's have been gaining some ground with many of the other tt companies going under. Thank you all and please keep the info coming. And if it helps any more I'm 25 wife is 24 and a 14mo we plan on having 2 more. Its sounding like the guys with the larger families are having the wife's who also like the bedroom that is separate.

Please keep the info coming.


----------



## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

I never see issues as speed related, but more stability. With a 30'+ sail behind you, a crosswind gust can literally push you off the road. Keeping the shiny sides up are my top priority. I was pretty convinced that if I towed long enough with the F150 that I would eventually lose that battle. The Super Duty fixed all of that. The trailer never dared to push my F350 around. Again, I'm not saying it won't work, just that you'll have a decreased margin for error. That's never been a risk that I was willing to take.


----------



## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

letscamp said:


> I don't know if I am doing this right but clicking reply, but I added some info into the first post and I will try in here.
> Some more info; Live in CA about 1 hr north of LA. Have used a friends old school 19ft terry early 90's something several times and loved every min of it. So the use will be high. Will be mostly summer camping at the beach/local lakes. The large space inside is what I'm interested in because of our 14mo and wife.
> 
> The TV is rated at 9200 and most places we are planning to go have full hook-ups so were not taking for the drive there. The longest trip were planning this year is 280 miles away. The rest are all with in 80 miles away. I'm planning on buying a used f-250 from my bro in law n a year or two so we can do the longer trips.
> ...


Using caution and patience you can make your Expedition work for light duty in good weather and flat ground. I think once you tow with your BIL's F250 you will come to your own conclusions. I see a 3/4 ton crew cab/Excursion/Suburban in your growing family's future. When you are on a dealer's lot you lose perspective of how big these trailers really are. Then you have the dealer telling you it's half ton capable because they want a sale. Look at my sig line and see how it dwarfs my Excursion. Once it's in your driveway it will seem larger than life. The trailer is much bigger and heavier than your Expy and it will push, pull, buck, bounce and sway at every crack, pothole, bump or gust of wind. Some of them are just annoying as your TV gets pushed around and some of them are a little scary. You'll see what we mean.


----------



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

rsm7 said:


> .....Look at my sig line and see how it dwarfs my Excursion. Once it's in your driveway it will seem larger than life.


That was a GREAT way to show/explain it....


----------



## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

letscamp said:


> First off I am new here and *I really wish I found this site sooner!* So off with my first post. I have been looking into all the different TT out there and think I found the perfect one. The Outback 300BH Its light, well what I think it's light for something that's so big, and has lots of room for the growing family! As of right now its just my wife and our 14mo, but were going to be having more soon. My questions are
> 
> 1. Everyone family/friends is pushing me towards going as big as you can right out the gate so that 3-4 years down the road the family does not grow out of it. Is this a good idea?
> 
> ...


Welcome and congratulations for asking questions early because you can avoid problems and learn from people who've learned these things the hard way. I shopped at the dealer you're talking about for both our Coleman popup and the Outback. Neither time did we buy there because their prices were just too high.

1. The go big early logic really only applies if you have a tow vehicle suitable for the bigger trailer or can afford to upgrade to a bigger tow vehicle. I don't know the exact specs for your Expedition but my personal opinion based on having an older Expedition (not the extended length model) is that the 300BH is too big. Also make sure the larger trailer will fit at the campgrounds you're planning to use. We'd have trouble getting a 33 ft trailer into some of the beach and mountain campgrounds we go to. We have 3 kids and still do just fine with our 26 ft trailer. Last weekend we went to the beach and my oldest took a friend and we handled 4 kids and 2 adults just fine. I try to spend most of my time out of the trailer though. Just a suggestion buy there are several other smaller models that would probably work well for you.

2. I've been to Stiers many times over the past 10 years and it's a very nice dealership but they just won't negotiate. They have their price and it's take it or leave it. We saved $2,000 on the Coleman popup and $4,000 on the Outback by shopping and buying elsewhere. It's too bad because they're closer to us than where we bought and it's on the way to my parents in Visalia. We bought the Outback about this time of year at Mike Thompsons RV in Colton. We had to negotiate a bit but the savings were substantial. I did a quick check on their site, http://www.mikethompson.com , and they still have some 08 models that you could probably get cheap. They have a couple of 08 models that might work well for you the 27FQBS and the 26KBRS. They also have a couple of used 06 models that look nice, a 28RS BK-QB and a 26RS. Maybe Stiers has changed their sales methods but when I lasted looked they were the most expensive way to buy.

3. It's hard to say if that's a good price since the specific parts are not specified. You can get an Equalizer hitch for $459 and a Prodigy Brake controller for $100. That's all you really need to get started, the rest of the stuff you can pick up at Wal-Mart and Camping World. The brake controller is very easy to install as long as you have the tow package and the Equalizer hitch is pretty easy to install as well. I took all of the stuff with me when I picked up my trailer and installed it on their lot. It took be about an hour and then when I got home I fine tuned the adjustment. If you need help with this let me know. The Reese dual cam hitch is also very good but I've never used one and I don't know how easy it is to install.

4. You're already doing the most important thing which is to ask for advice. There are lots of things you'll want/need but most of those you can get after you get the trailer.


----------



## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

Well the TT sounds like you thought of the future, unfortunately your tow vehicles wheelbase is short.

rule of thumb is 110" wheelbase = 20' trailer

Add 4" of wheelbase for every foor of trailer

Expedition is 119" standard, 131" for extended, no sure which you have.

the standard could get away with a 23" push a 24" with the WD.

The 131" WB could get you to 26' TT maybe 27'

the 300BH is 32' 8" in length and 8200lbs without anything in your TV.

At 32' you would definitely need a longer WB 12' x 4" = 48" + 110" is 158" which is basically a 3/4 ton Crew Cab pickup.

This is a safe way to drive. also you need to add people, gear, gas and such to your TV and subtract from you tow capabilites.

and you want to be in the 80% range so 9000 - 20% = 7200, TT is 8200 + you, wife, gas and other weight so you are way over.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

nynethead said:


> the 300BH is 32' 8" in length and 8200lbs without anything in your TV.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


The 300BH is only about 6500lbs empty. Or did you mean loaded?


----------



## ORvagabond (Apr 17, 2009)

First WELCOME!!!

I pull with a 2006 Expedition and the only difference is you have the 6 speed. I have a 28KRS and I can pull it on flatter ground with no wind, very well (plan on 8-8.5mpg). I think the advice is and I agree it will work as a stop gap just be careful about windy conditions and if you are going up the Grapevine etc plan on pulling at slow speeds and rpms around 4000. I have an Equalizer and would upgrade to a Henley except I plan on a 3/4 to 1 ton shortly.


----------



## letscamp (Jan 22, 2010)

What is a Equalizer and a Henley? And as far as pulling up hills how does your expedition do?


----------



## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

Equalizer is a brand of weight distributing hitch with built in sway control.

http://www.equalizerhitch.com/

There are a couple of other comparable hitches from Reese and Husky. Look for the StraightLine from Reese and the Centerline from Husky.

http://www.reeseprod.com/
http://www.huskytow.com/FTP/PDF/P01045_HTCH_CenterLinePDF.pdf

The above 3 hitches all run between $450 and $700 depending on where you buy them.

There are two other hitches that are similar and use the same technique to eliminate sway and to also provide weight distribution. They work very well and are generally considered the best at preventing sway. The only problem is cost as they run $2400 to $3000. While expensive they may be worth it if they keep you from needing to go out and buy a bigger tow vehicle. The newest is the ProPride 3P and the older one that's been around for a long time is the Hensley Arrow.

http://www.propridehitch.com/3P_trailer_hitch.php?item_id=1
http://www.hensleymfg.com/

People here have used these models, except for maybe the Husky, and you can find lots of info on how well they work.


----------



## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

There are also a lot of $200 hitches with miss leading names (made to look like the major brands) and selling for the same price as the major brands but not worth the steel they are made of.

Also with the trailer you are looking at do not use a hitch that uses add on friction plates for sway control.

Get the name brand of the hitch the dealer is wanting to include in the package.


----------



## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

i meant max capacity empty + loading is 8200. that doesn't include anything in the TV like passengers, fuel and other gear.


----------



## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

nynethead said:


> that doesn't include anything in the TV like *assengers*


Come on Glenn!!!

What you call your wife when she gives wrong directions is NOT our business.......
















Steve


----------



## nynethead (Sep 23, 2005)

just remebering my 1/2 ton pulling days with the outback

doing 50 in second gear trying to come home from your neck of the woods....

how's the family? getting cabin fever yet?

and i added the P


----------



## dennis (Jan 11, 2009)

we bought the 300BH, and last summer was the first time camping with it and loved it! we have 3 kids so it was a good fit for us. a couple of things we noticed is that is long and the slides open up quite a bit so we have to be selective with sites we pick ( we normally camp at michigan state parks) because of the length and wingspan of the slides. now saying that, again we love our outback 300bh and wouldn't have picked any other one.
We bought ours from Holman in Ohio and we think we got a good deal even with the 10 hour round trip.

Onto the towing.. I am towing with a Chevy Avalanche 1500 series and it is lacking. we had a typical Reese hitch system with a single friction bar and in early spring we upgraded to a Hensley Hitch. My parents have one and love it. for me this made a huge difference! i feel safer and less fatigued after driving. now we haven't gone outside of michigan and the furthest we have driven is about 4 hours so my opinion may not hold up against the people that tow more miles.
We are planning on going through the UP this summer so i think that will be the true test but for now my set up works well and feel safe pulling with my family and all the goodies packed.
one thing to add is i do have the, what i think are "E" rated tires so that helps a great deal as well.

-Dennis


----------

