# Another Brain Teaser



## OutbackPM (Sep 14, 2005)

(I must say first, the plane will take off.)

Its you kids birthday and you pick up one of those helium balloons at the store. You tie it to the back of your car seat and it floats up without touching the ceiling to be tethered only by the string.

You are in a hurry (ar'nt we always with kids) and speed off down the road. When you make a sweeping say left turn which way will the balloon lean when you go around the corner.

Left or right? I should also ask why?

David


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Right.

The balloon will move to the right because of the body roll of the vehicle. Eh, it sounds good on paper at least.


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

I say it won't lean either way. It will stay pointed directly up as there are no forces being applied to the ballon or the string holding it down.


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

GlenninTexas said:


> I say it won't lean either way. It will stay pointed directly up as there are no forces being applied to the ballon or the string holding it down.
> [snapback]66302[/snapback]​


That wasn't an option action


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## bill_pfaff (Mar 11, 2005)

I'd say 2500Ram & GlenninTexas are both right.

The balloon won't lean either way however; it will appear to lean to the right because the car below it will be leaning to the left.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Well the classic one of this is the air freshener hung from the mirror. When you turn left the air freshener swings to the right due to Kinetic Energy. An object which has motion - whether it be vertical or horizontal motion - has kinetic energy. There are many forms of kinetic energy - vibrational (the energy due to vibrational motion), rotational (the energy due to rotational motion), and translational (the energy due to motion from one location to another).

The balloon will have the same thing but it may not be as obvious.


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

bill_pfaff said:


> I'd say 2500Ram & GlenninTexas are both right.
> 
> The balloon won't lean either way however; it will appear to lean to the right because the car below it will be leaning to the left.
> [snapback]66311[/snapback]​


Yep. Agree with Bill. The car will tilt lower on the left and higher on the right - the balloon will appear to tilt right. Now, if the balloon were not tethered, it would actually roll along the roof to the right because the car is slanted higher on the right in a left turn. Step on the brakes hard and the ballon will roll to the back of the car; Take off fast and the balloon will roll to the front - all because of the tilt of the roof.

Scott


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Right.....because the balloon is wanting to continue going straight and when you turn left, it wants to keep going straight, which is now right.

Steve


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Oh boy! Another one!









Hey, it just wouldn't be me if I didn't stir things up, so I am going to say the ballon goes left.

Now, as soon as you are finished laughing, let me explain why (oh, God!, here he goes again...). I have in fact been sent out on ballon retrieval duty on more than one childs birthday, so I have some personal experience here. That said, I can not honestly say I have ever paid attention to which way the ballons go when cornering. What I have noticed (much to my annoyance), is that when I accelerate, the ballons all rush FORWARD in the car, making it very hard to drive!

Now, making no sense to me, I have pondered the reason while untangling myself from the mess of ballon strings, why would they move forward, when the car accelerates forward? The best answer I have come up with relates to a lesson one learns when learning to fly. That is the tendancy of a magnetic compass to 'overshoot' the correct bearing when turning, and then, as the airplane stabilizes in straight flight it will settle back to the proper heading. This is known as 'progression', and is an important concept to understand when trying to navigate your aircraft.

I can not state unequivocally that this is the same reason ballons move the way they do, but I suspect it is something along those lines. In any case, my personal experience tells me that the ballons will move in the direction of the accelerating vehicle, and going around a corner, is in fact accelerating the vehicle in another direction.

Let the fur fly!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Iâ€™m going to contradict my first reply but read my first reply about the body roll I was mistaken. The body will roll to the right if turning left causing the balloon to move to the left.

P.S. Doug had no input on this thought, the balloons going foreword on acceleration you have a heavy right footâ€¦









Bill.

ah heck I'm probably still wrong.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Guys this is one of those basic physics things.

A body in motion tends to stay in motion (that is why we need seat belts) and a body at rest tends to stay at rest (that is why when you are a lead foot you fill your butt sink in the seat).

You turn left the balloon is actually trying to keep going straight but will look like it is going to the right since you have turned left.


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## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

I say left as the body roll on a left turn would be to the right.


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## summergames84 (Mar 6, 2004)

After we finish all these experiments, will we qualify for a PhD in physics?


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

summergames84 said:


> After we finish all these experiments, will we qualify for a PhD in physics?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


no but we can talk about these at the camp fires


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## Fire44 (Mar 6, 2005)

I vote that we park the car in front of a bar, go inside and have a drink while we are looking at the balloon in the car.....maybe we will be able to come up with the answer.

Gary

Gee that sounds like my solution for the airplane question
















I must be stuck in a rut!!!


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

I say it stay straight and it's an optical illusion that it moves.

Don


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

2500Ram said:


> Iâ€™m going to contradict my first reply but read my first reply about the body roll I was mistaken. The body will roll to the right if turning left causing the balloon to move to the left.


I kind of wondered where you guys were getting these cars that lean into a corner! Figured must be one of those new fangled active suspension systems!



2500Ram said:


> P.S. Doug had no input on this thought, the balloons going foreword on acceleration you have a heavy right footâ€¦


I have been accused of that in the past. Formally charged to be more accurate!







That being said, I don't think that is the cause!









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Reason #2 why I believe the ballons will go to the left...

The correct answer to these kind of 'Brain Teasers' is *NEVER* the obvious 'common sense' answer. If they were, we would all be in agreement from the outset, and what fun would that be?









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## skills4lou (Nov 10, 2005)

OK, I'll play in this one too.







As others have said the balloons will attempt to continue along a set path, ie. to the right of the car, so the balloons will lean to the right in a left turn. Think about it this way: what way does you're body tend to lean while taking a left turn? (and not during or after imbibing in adult beverages!







)
Speaking of beer though, I found a decent imported German: Warsteiner. I've still been unable to find any Lorher Bier 1878 though


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## OutbackPM (Sep 14, 2005)

OK I think that is enough missery for everyone.

You can actually prove it to yorself if you buy the laytex versions not the silver ones but please drive safely its not worth tearing up the highway to prove me wrong.

Physics is the answer to everything but which bit. In this case the mass of the balloon is extremely low so the tendancy to be thrown out like a passenger would is very low. Its bouyancy in air is very strong so when you corner the air in the car is thrown to the right causing the air pressure to increase on the right this increases the density so the balloon moves to the less dense side or the left.

OK its someone elses turn to baffle us with....... science.

David


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Congrats Doug with the first Left reply


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

I beg to differ. The air density will not change enough just with the car turning to cause the effect you suggest. May be the passengers with their much greater mass are swinging to the right (actually going straight) and displacing the air on that side of the car and thus pushing the balloons to the left.


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

I cannot believe I am going to agree with PDX









The Ballon will move left.

Why

As stated before an object in motion will remain in motion unless an external force is applied. An object at rest will remain at rest unless an external force is applied.

The ballon is not free floating in the car, it is attached to the car by a string. So if you are standing no the ground behind the car and the car turns left the car will pull on the string left and hence the ballon will move left because the force on the ballon is left.

Remember a person in a car always wants to remain level just like if you are standnding on a slope, a person adjusts in order for your head to remain level. In car you tend to lean to remain level. If you put your head back against the head rest and do not remove it you will move as one with the car.

Thor


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## bill_pfaff (Mar 11, 2005)

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

> There are many forms of kinetic energy - vibrational (the energy due to vibrational motion), rotational (the energy due to rotational motion), and translational (the energy due to motion from one location to another).


Andy,

You forgot "irrational" motion---that motion whereby the hand keeps going to the mouth with food in it even though I'm not really hungry and getting fatter all the time.

Mark


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

OutbackPM,

Well done!








Great explanation, and it makes perfect sense. At least I got the answer right, just wish it had been for the correct reason. Oh well, a 'W' is a 'W', right?



Thor said:


> I cannot believe I am going to agree with PDX


Ahh, come on Thor, it can't be that awful, can it?









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

PDX

You cannot believe how it pains me to have said that
















All kidding aside, you are alright in my books regardless of motion.









Thor


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Thor said:


> PDX
> 
> You cannot believe how it pains me to have said that
> 
> ...


Thanks Thor.









I have not been sleeping at night, so I'm sure DW thanks you too!
Can you believe she actually threatened to cut me off from the thread! Women, what are you gonna do?









I have just been thinking how sad it is the national rally idea fell apart. We could have had a ball with these!









Take care, my friend. And until we meet again...

Happy Trails,
Doug


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