# Here fishy fishey fishy!



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Ahoy fish keepers,

We are mourning the loss of our last gold fish (actually a feeder fish that my Daughter got for a non-harmful experiment at school) and have decided to step up to tropicals. I'm not completely ignorant of the care of tropical fish but it has been more than 20 years so, uh, I may have forgotten a few things. shy I really am not too comfortable trusting the 16 year old kid who is the fish 'expert' at our local store.

First: What should I look for in terms of a tank and filter setup? I've dropped by the fish store a couple times and they have a lot of choices. Should I consider a free standing model? I'm leaning towards a 30 gallon tank - too small, too large?

Second: What should the chemical setup be? Do I need to condition the water more than adding the bacteria to tap water prior to use in the tank? How sensitive are the fish to change in temp during water changes and when I bring them home?

Third: Fish. These seems like a pretty essential ingredient to a good fish tank. I'm pretty sure I'll get a couple of these. I don't have a clue what kind I should get to start or how to grow the complement of fish over time. Also, is there a rule of thumb about number of fish vs. size of the tank?

Fourth: Healthy tank. What tools are there to assure I have a healthy tank? The tests that are likely to be needed I'd like to be able to do at home rather than trucking a sample to the fish store 'expert' every week. Any hints or suggestions?

I'm sure I'll have other questions. This project is likely to be one of my off-camping-season distractions to help me avoid the desire to go and visit my captive Outback (held hostage by the ravages of winter - or at least cold weather).

Hope you can help.
Brian


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Hey Brian,

Now your talking, fishkeeping is a great hobby for the outback off-season









Check out this website, there's a lot of info on beginning fishkeeping in the beginners section.
the tropical tank

Thirty gallon is a good size to start with. Most people start with a ten or so and they are actually harder to keep than a larger tank. I started with a 10 and quickly moved to a 45 and a 20 which is what I have at home now. I have a 55 at work. Here's a couple shots of my tanks at home




























As far as equipment goes, I use marineland penguin biowheel filters which I've found are easy to maintain and work well, you just buy the carbon/floss cartridges and change them once a month. They have a pleated wheel that hangs where the water exits into the tank and spins in the flow of the water. Bacteria populate the wheel and take care of breaking down the ammonia and nitrites. Ebo Jager makes good heaters, I've had good luck with them, visitherms are good too. I've found you can get much better deals through catalogs and the internet than at your local pet store. I find filters and equipment to be about half the price that way. I use a couple of places to buy equipment and supplies.

pet solutions

drs. fosters and smith

If you have city water, you will need to get a water conditioner that breaks down the chlorine or chloramine in your water. When I add fish, I usually open the bag they are in, pour in some of my tank water, reseal the bag and let it sit in the tank for 15 minutes or so to adjust to the tempereture of my tank. I then net them and put them into the tank. I try to avoid adding pet store water to my water.

You are going to want to do weekly or bi-weekly water changes. Siphons are available or you can use one of these, python I use one and it makes doing water changes much easier than using a regular siphon and a bucket. When you do your water changes, try to keep the new water within 2 degrees of the water in your tank, that will reduce the chances of them getting ick.

If you check out the tropical tank website, there's a lot of info on getting started with a new tank and also some good fish to start with. I found getting the tanks started was a little frustrating, but if you stick with regular maintenance and water changes, you'll be rewarded in the end with a healthy tank and happy fishies.

Mike


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

What Mike said......

Just to add my two cents though, I use a Fluval cannister filter. It goes under the tank, in the cabinet, and is out of sight, and quite quiet too. Depending on the number of fish in the tank, you can get away with less frequent filter changes with one of these also. They build up a colony of bacteria in some media that you leave in the unit, and just change the carbon and sponge media.

To me, the hardest part of keeping a fish tank, is starting a fish tank. Patience is a must. If you do have city water, like Mike said, there is a chemical additive you can purchase that breaks down the chlorine in the water. For this reason, when you first start up, you might want to set the tank up, and let the filter run for a few days before adding fish.

You will find that everyone will offer suggestions as to the number and specis of fish to get. One rule of thumb that I have always lived by is: one inch of fish per gallon of tank capacity. That means in a 30 gallon tank; 30 1" fish or 15 2",etc, etc. Also, add the least aggressive, and territorial fish to your tank first. If you add more territorial or aggaressive fish first, they will claim the entire tank as theirs, and you won't be able to add anything else without some conflict.

I would also limit the water changes when you first start up, until the bacteria colony can establish itself, and even then I only do changes about once a month.

Good Luck.

Tim


----------



## shake1969 (Sep 21, 2004)

Where's Nemo?


----------



## dougdogs (Jul 31, 2004)

shake1969 said:


> Where's Nemo?
> [snapback]18801[/snapback]​


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Just don't show the kids!!!

Thanks for the help (well, maybe the Nemo thing isn't classed as help per se but a good laugh nonetheless). Went looking at Aquariums and quickly came tot he conclusion that our local stores do not have any quality combinations of aquarium and stand that we would put in the house. I think we are going to use a desk and get a 45 gal. tank to put on it. I've checked the load capacity of the desk and with a little reinforcement it will be fine.

My daughter spent about 3 hours on the internet reading up on tropical fish and aquarium setups. Between the information you provided and the material she found I think we have enough to get serious about the shopping. She concluded that we ought to wait about a week after setup to start the fish and then add less territorial fish (more social) to the tank first.

Mike, Tim, is there a place to get the aquarium and stand online as well as supplies? I'm not sure how far I'm going to have to go to get a good tank and stand (when I get a different stand). Mike, that cherry stand sure looks nice, is that custom or did you buy it off the shelf?

Brian


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Brian, I've had my tank and stand much longer then the internet, so they were purchased at the local pet store, which isn't even local to where I live anymore.....heck, I don't even think the building it was in is standing anymore. It's a shopping mall now.









Anyway, I would just do some research time and see what pops up. Know what you are looking for though, and good luck.

Tim


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Brian,

That's a custom stand with hood cover I built. It's fastened to the wall and shimmed level throught the carpet so it won't shift. The 20 is on a reinforced drawer cabinet I built as well. Figure a 45 gal. will weigh in at about 450#.

Look no further than NJ for a stand, I'll build you one and ship it to you







Shipping could be steep though









If you're setting up a 45, here's a list of equipment I'm using on mine;

Marineland Penguin 330 biowheel filter
Ebo Jager 200 watt heater
All glass Aquarium 36" glass hood
All Glass Aquarium 36" twin tube flourescent light
Coralsealife double helix UV sterilizer. That's optional, my tank is near a window and I was having problems with cloudy water.

All-Glass Aquarium and Perfecto aquariums are names that have been around for a long time. If you can find one local, I would do that, glass tanks don't ship very well







. The two links in my post above for fosters-smith and pet solutions are great mail order companies and have good pricing for supplies. Fosters-Smith also has good info on setting up and maintaining tanks.

Mike


----------



## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

> Where's Nemo?












Now that was worth repeating.
















Thor


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Ya know!!....... We're trying to have a serious fish conversation here!!!!!!!!!










Mike


----------



## shake1969 (Sep 21, 2004)

If you knew sushi,
Like I know sushi...


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

I thought it was bait.....









Tim


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

OK, now that we have Nemo's disposition settled...

We've gotten past the holidays and our last klingon goldfish has taken its final downstream migration so it is time for us to get serious about setting up our tropical freshwater tank.

Our progress so far is to settle on a 55 gallon tank to be placed on a built-in desk that has more use as a clutter collector than desk - its strong enough as I've put reinforcing under it and there is electrical and under tank storage. I'll be trimming it with oak that matches the cabinets to make the tank look like a built-in tank. The desk is in the area of the house that we spend considerable time and the whole family agrees that it would be a fine location for the tank.

OK, regarding the tank itself. The 55 gallon tank is four feet long and 13 inches front-to-back, 20 inches tall. Biggest tank I've owned. We are looking at an All-Glass brand tank. We are thinking canister filter under the tank and possibly an under-gravel filter as well. A 300 watt heater is also on the list for the setup.

We will setup the fish tank and let it 'start' for a few weeks before getting any fish. We are considering getting a 'bacteria start' fromt he fish store but to be truthful, I'm not sure I trust most pet stores to give us only healthy, helpful bacteria. If I can find someone local (Boeing has a fish club but I'm not sure I want THAT much help) I may opt for using a sample from their tank.

So, that's the plan, what do you fish keepers think?

Brian


----------



## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

55 gallon is a good choice. As said before, the larger the tank. the easier it is to maintain.
I have a 55 that I've had for about 5 years now, before that, I had a 29.
The only thing I might do different from you list is to get two heaters. One in each corner of the 55 seems to work better than a single heater would. And if one of them gives up, you're not trying to heat the tank with a hairdryer while somebody goes after a new heater.
Setup the tank, add the chlorine remover stuff, wait TWO weeks, add fish.
Did I mention wait TWO weeks?


----------



## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

I'm not a fish keeper...or at least by choice.

My son has tanks in his room. One houses turtles, one is currently empty, and the other is a 75 gallon tank with quite large fish. He comes over and feeds them with minnows. (he moved out, and left the tanks!)

I'm thinking....shouldn't he have taken his pets with him? I don't know much about fish...except how to fry them up!


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

55 is a great size, that's what I have at work and it's real easy to care for.

I agree with Katrina about getting two 150 watt heaters.

I'd skip the undergravel filter and use a canister with maybe a biowheel spraybar and a powerhead to circulate the water in the tank. The UGF can get clogged after a while and become useless.

You could also use an emperor 400 instead of a canister filter.

I really like the All Glass twin tube light fixtures, they give off a lot of light.

You don't want to add the bacteria starter until you add fish. If there's no ammonia or nitrite for the bacteria to feed on, the bacteria will just die off. The starters do cut down on the length of time it takes for the nitrogen cycle to get started and have a pretty long shelf life in the bottle. If you know someone with an established tank or if your lfs is willing, a cupful of gravel from their tank added to yours when you add fish will help get things going too.

Good luck, it can be a little frustrating at first, but stick with it.

Mike


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Mike,
I decided to go with the Flugel 304 canister after doing a lot of reading. I wanted to go with the canister for two reasons; it looked like a lot of folks preferred a canister type filter, and, with the space limits I have for back of the tank area it will work out better than a back of the tank filter.

The biowheel spraybar as an alternative to the undergravel filter is an interesting idea and one I will consider. How does the biowheel attach to the tank? Is there any protrusion behind the tank? It looks like the benefit is the combination of nitrite and ammonia elimination as well as oxigenating the water. Seems like a better solution if it will work in the space I have.

Thanks for the help. I'll be working on moving some electrical and setting up for the tank installation tomorrow while the ice from the freezing rain thaws.

Brian


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Brian,

The biowheel spraybar hangs on the back lip of the tank. I don't know how much of it will hang off the back of the tank. Here is the marineland web site for the biowheel. Looks like most of it is inside the rim of the tank with maybe a couple of inches hanging off of the back.

The canisters are definitely nice, very quiet, and do a great job. In combination with the biowheel, that would be a great setup.


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Mike,
It looks like I'll take a trip to the fish store again and have a look at the bio-wheel. Seems like it would be a good addition and could replace the UGF I was planning (only because that is what I had 20 years ago when I first kept fish).

I already had two powerheads to power the under gravel filter so I can use one for the biowheel and take one back. Between the returned UGF and extra powerhead the difference in cost is not a big thing for the apparent benefits - the biowheel makes a lot of sense.

Thanks for the help - from me and the fish I'll be getting.









Brian


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Well, the best laid plans...

Putting the 55 on the desktop I had in mind is not going to work. I was considering the All-Glass pet stand (the Oak Modern stand ) but for the cost, I can build a very nice one. Since I'm not in a huge hurry to get the tank set up and since this gives me an excuse to spend some time making sawdust (another passion that has slipped away since having children), I'm thinking that is what I'll do.

Mike, your cabinet shown in the first of your posts (here) is interesting - any good pictures I could use to model mine after? My woodworking skills are a little rusty but I was pretty capable in my day (best project was a black walnut pool table with leather pockets, mother-of-pearl diamond shape inlaid rail sights, 1 inch single piece slate -- my pride and joy that I sold to make room for, you guessed it, kids). So a nice peice of furniture to hold the new tank would be a good project. Any help would be great!

Thanks,
Brian


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Brian,

Will take some photos and post back later tonight or tomorrow.

Mike


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

That would be great Mike. Meanwhile, I'll start clearing out the space int he garage!


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Okay Brian, here's some pictures;

This is our showroom cabinet with our 55 if your feeling really ambitious
















Pic of our 45 with cabinet and hood








Inside of cabinet








Shot of hood cover








another of the hood cover








tank inset into molding









Hope these give you some ideas. Fire away with any questions if you have them

Mike


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Mike,

Outstanding! The display case is really a nice piece - my wife said I could start on one just like it right away (should be done in a couple years). In fact both pieces are very nice, I like the flutes on the 45.

Is the stand and top for the 45 made of cherry? I'm thinking that is what I may use for mine if I can find a supply that is reasonably clear of defects.

Thank you very much for the pictures - they will help a lot. I'll be making something more like the 45 - I particularly like the molding around the base of the tank.

Brian


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Brian,

It's all cherry, one of my favorites.

If you have a cabinet shop nearby, they may sell you some cherry for a lot less than it will cost you at a lumber yard. I get people occasionally looking for some lumber and I'll help them out if I've got what they're looking for.

Mike


----------



## Paul_in_Ohio (Sep 29, 2004)

Mike,

I am not into fish, but I wanted to say the the cabinet work is outstanding. I loved the detail in the larger cabinet. Excellent Workmanship.


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

BBB, you're gonna love the Fluval. I am using the 304 myself for my 29. I replaced a older 303. Had to get a new unit, a) because I could,







the 303 was so old, that the design had changed. I liked the improvements made with the newer designs, so I used the excuse with the DW that the O-rings I needed to replace on the old one were no longer available.

When you do start to add fish, add some inexpensive, hardy, non territorial specis' first. They will help get the whole biological filter process going. After a few weeks or so, you can start to add more expensive types. Currently I am keeping a ciclid, and a plecostamis in my 29, and they are getting along just fine.

Good luck with the sawdust making, and the setup. I dream of one day having the room to move up to a 55 myself.

Tim


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Tim,
I'm fortunate that the DW is letting me do the 55 AND build the tank stand. She couldn't come up with a good gift for me for Christmas (new socks) so she was willing to let me do this. The whole setup ought to be pretty nice.

Would you recommend using one of the packets of biological (bacteria) starter that they have at the fish store? They suggested that I use it one day before I got the fish (after the tank stablizes for a couple weeks). I never know what to trust with the folks there (old geezer syndrome - don't trust anyone who looks young enough to be my own kid; getting to be everyone these days).

Mike,
I'll try the cabinet maker idea - hadn't occured to me to try that. It is hard to find good cherry on the West Coast. Did you make your own moldings (perhaps stacked 4-quarter with shaped edges?) and what kind of joint did you use on the tank top? Can't tell from the picture and it doesn't look like any reinforcing cleats were used. I'm trying to reverse-engineer the cabinet from the pictures and have the main cabinet figured out except the ends. Can't quite figure how the end panels are connected to the two main 3/4" birch ply boxes that make the main cabinet. This thing must be one heck of a strong cabinet (and heavy too).

I have a decision to make about the doors too. I don't currently have a shaper. In fact, I don't have a router table with a 1/2" collet router. That makes shaping the doors an issue that I need to resolve - either I go ahead and get the new tools (that would be terrible - heh,heh) or I have the doors made. Would really hate to make the whole thing EXCEPT the doors. Ah, decisions...

Brian


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

> Would you recommend using one of the packets of biological (bacteria) starter that they have at the fish store?


I've never used it. If you are setting up a communtiy style tropical tank, I would just get some mollies, and maybe a dozen neon's or some other inexpensive, and non-territorial types. Both are fairly hardey, and should be able to survive a transfer to a new tank. I personally would resist any kind of water changes, or filter media changes for the first 6 weeks or so, and even after things are up an running, never do both a water change, and a media change at the same time. I also never change the solid media in the fluval. The only thing I actually change is the carbon pouches. I rinse the sponge media, and lighty rinse the solid media with some warm water.

With only the two fish, I find I can go about 6 weeks between filter cleanings, and water changes about once a month.



> I don't currently have a shaper. In fact, I don't have a router table with a 1/2" collet router


Looks like you need to run to the tool store!









Tim


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

It will definately be a community tank. My daughter has been doing research on how to stock the tank - fish wise - and she mentioned the non-territorial fish first. Makes a lot of sense.

Wouldn't have ocurred to me to avoid both a filter change and water change but, keeping the bacteria level up being as important as it is, it makes a lot of sense to avoid both at once. I've also read that changing water is best in low quantities (15-25% of the volume max) and not to stir up the tank and dislodge bacteria from tank surfaces when it is done.

Seems like a lot to know about how to do it right but once you get a system down it ought to go pretty easily.

First I've got to build the stand!


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Thanks for the compliments









Brian,

I did run all the moldings, we have our own small molder that we do short runs with.

The cabinet was built in a modular fashion; base, (2) cabinets of 3/4" maple plywood, (2) end panels and the top section that the tank sits in. I set the base level on the floor with screws driven into the carpet to keep it from sinking in. Then the cabinets, end panels and top section all are set on and screwed together. I fastened the whole cabinet to the wall with blocking.










The end panels are made up of a 3/4" thick by 4" wide fluted column with a 3/4" cherry plywood panel for the outside and a short return on the inside so it could be screwed to the cabinet. From the top it looks kind of like a "J"

The hood piece is solid cherry planed to 5/8" thick and mitred together at the corners. Nothing fancy for a joint, I only glued and nailed them from both directions to hold it together. I'm pretty careful with it and it has held together so far. I used brass screws to hold the ledge on that sits on the lip of the tank.

I use a door manufacturer here in the east that builds very nice cabinet doors, raised panel, frame and panel, etc. If you would like, PM me the dimensions and your address and I'll order and ship them to you. But then you won't have the satisfaction of building them









Mike


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Mike,
Progress on the fish tank stand. I've pulled together a relatively simple plan based upon your design. I guess if stealing an idea is the highest form of flattery then you must be pretty flattered. Not too often I get to have such clear advice so I thought I'd take advantage of it.









This is a scale representation although I didn't spend as much time as I could have - I really just wanted an idea of how it would look.

The two outside doors will be leaded glass for use by DW for 'more than just a fish tank' if you get my drift.









I'm going to pick up the materials this weekend and likely start cutting. I was going to ask what kind of finish you used. I'm flirting with the idea of tung oil.

I'd be interested in your feedback.

BBB


----------



## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

I don't know BBB.....

Looks to me as you might have to do some furniture rearranging to get it to all fit into your 23RS.....

Great idea for "meals on wheels", tho!


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

ROFLMAOL


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Fish tank slide was a new option on the 23RS.


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Brian,

Happy I was able to help you out. Your design looks great, I really like the glass doors on the outside. Glass shelves with lights? That would look really sharp.

The finish I used is a conversion varnish which is pretty much the industry standard for higher end cabinetry. It's an acid catalyzed finish designed to be sprayed on, 6 oz. of catalyst is added per gallon of finish to start the curing process, skins over in about 5-10 minutes and has an 8 hour pot life. Very tough and water resistant but unfortunately unless you've got a spray booth and equipment, I wouldn't recommend it.

I also don't think I'd use tung oil, not really enough water resistance. I think polyurethane would be your best option, the old fashioned oil based stuff







If you'd like, when you get to that point I can give you some ideas on application and finishing it off so it's nice and smooth.

Love the cabinet in the trailer. Have to use a water tight lid though................









Mike


----------



## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

The question is...how to WINTERIZE????









Now that really is....CAMPING WITH PETS!

All jokes aside...that really is some sweet cabinent work Mike!


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Mike,
I might be able to swing the shaper or bigger router for the doors but a spray booth might be pushing my limit with the DW. I have a compressor that could handle it but the booth itself might be tough (I guess I could build one that is temporary/portable but not sure how well I could keep it dust free...)







I've wanted to do that for a long time - finishing is my least favorite part of the process.

Looks like I'm going to have to settle for birch ply - I can't find any maple







. I've got another place to check tonight on the way home. Still haven't found a cabinet maker that is willing to sell me some cherry direct. I also need to find the cherry ply which could be harder than finding some s2s 4/4 cherry. I did find a hardwood dealer though - over priced.









Still, I'm pretty excited about getting it going. My daughter (woodshop trained) is offering to help which will make the plywood cutting easier.

Next to camping, making sawdust is one of my most favoritist thing to do!


----------



## Paul_in_Ohio (Sep 29, 2004)

Brian,
If you come up with a supplier that is reasonable priced for Cherry and/or Maple Ply, pass along the info. I can get Oak and Birch, but I haven't found anything else.

Thanks in Advance,
Paul


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Paul,
Found the maple ply - Home Depot had some which is odd because they ussually don't stock it. I lucked out there.

The cherry has proven more elusive. I've found a couple sources that are WAY too expensive. (I must mention that I sold the DW on building this myself because it would be cheaper - can't make it happen with cherry at the prices I found). I may settle on oak for the price, it matches our other furniture, and it will make stocking the fishtank a little easier (with fewer arguements about how much this 'stupid' fish tank is costing







).

So, as much as I love the way cherry looks...


----------



## Paul_in_Ohio (Sep 29, 2004)

BBB,
Did you look into putting a Cherry Vineer <SP?> over a Birch ply? Should save you a few bucks and still give you the Cherry look you want.

Paul


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Paul,
Because of the doors, the edges and the moldings, veneer wouldn't work unless I modified the project considerably. There are some good mail order places for veneer but even it gets pricey.

By staying with Oak, I can do the moldings and edgework and even the doors (which I plan to make using table saw and router rather than getting a heavy duty router and raised panel bits).

My DW was very happy at the decision to go to oak so I'm too far now to reverse it. Cherry for next project (hmm... I've got room for a pool table coming up here soon when the DD goes to college...)

BBB


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Hey Brain, How's the project progressing????

Mike


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Mike,
I'm about to get out into the shop and do a little work on it today. I have the basic cabinet built (no doors yet) and I decided to make the top out of two layers of Oak ply with a double thikness edge. I wanted the top to be stiff and very flat to make sure it was supporting the tank evenly.

As soon as I get the top finished (sanded - it is assembled) I'll finish it and the base cabinet and then attach the top to the base cabinet. At that time I'll be ready for setting up the tank. The doors are going to be added after I get the tank set up (hinge maounting holes and other parts will be done prior to finishing so adding the doors is only mounting them).

So, my list of things to do is getting pretty short (compared to the original list):

Cut access to center cabinet for filter hoses (router)
Mounting holes for door hinges (forstner bit)
Finish base cabinet (Minwax polyurethane - semi gloss)
Sand and finish top
Mount top to cabinet (screws that allow removal)
Build finish and attach the wall anchor to cabinet
Halogen lights for cabinet (wire and install)
Electrical power set up for tank (including a wave generator strip)
Setup cabinet and attach to wall, set up electrical 
Glue up for center door panel
Cut center door pannel (modified tenioning jig on table saw rather than the router)
Cut rails and stiles for doors and route
Assemble, sand and finish doors
Get glass cut and assemble and lead the glass panels
Install the panels
Mount doors
Install glass shelves and wood shelf in center cabinet

The list for setting up the tank is a lot longer...

I'll try and post a picture this weekend to give an idea of the progress. Business travel has really thrown a crimp into the progress. I'll be home for the most part over the next couple months so that should end. Can't stand it when work gets inthe way of hobbies. I'm also having some trouble with the table saw arbor - it may be time to retire my tired old (22years) saw and get a new one.

Also, I'm studying up on reef aquariums. I may give it a go and see what it takes to pull one together. They sure are pretty, and fastinating too.

BBB


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Sounds like you're getting there.

I read somewhere to put the tank on a 3/8" or 1/2" thick piece of styrofoam insulation to give it a little flexing room in case the cabinet shifts a little. The kind that goes under vinyl siding would work. I didn't because I didn't know about it. I haven't had any problems yet. Although if I was to do it again I'd use the insulation....just in case.

A reef aquarium sounds great, I don't have the nerve to try it, maybe someday. I understand they're very expensive and involved to get started, lots of lighting, reverse osmosis units, testing equipment, protein skimmers, salt mix, etc. They sure are beautiful when they are done well though. Well worth the effort IMO. I'd be very interested to see how you make out.

I am thinking of changing the substrate in my 45 and giving live plants a try. I've got the tank running nicely and am looking for something new to do to it.

I just got a new Eheim canister filter and a powerhead for circulation to replace my penguin biowheel filter. I'm hoping I can stretch my filter cleanings to at least three months. The canister is nice, room for lots of media and very quiet. I was able to plumb my UV sterilizer into the return line out of sight behind the tank. Having less equipment on the back glass looks a lot better. Eventually I'd like to get an inline heater so I can get that out of the tank also.

Mike


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Will the canister filter be enough bio filtering to replace the biowheel? I was going to do both just to be sure I'd have enough bilogical filtration. I was thinking of a sump too for macroalgae culture but room is the issue. I guess if I made the sum attractive enough I could put it in one of the glass door cabinets









The reef tank does seem expensive but both the DW and I think it is worth the expense. We are a little concerned about leaving it when we go on vacation (mostly for power failures) but I whink we'll still do it.


----------



## Katrina (Dec 16, 2004)

BigBadBrain said:


> Will the canister filter be enough bio filtering to replace the biowheel? I was going to do both just to be sure I'd have enough bilogical filtration. I was thinking of a sump too for macroalgae culture but room is the issue. I guess if I made the sum attractive enough I could put it in one of the glass door cabinets
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A simple UPS from the computer store should take care of any power fail worries.
I wish I had the nerve to try a reef setup.


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

OK, now you guys are scaring me into indecision again (I scare easily). Well, I'm going to start reading again tonight and tomorrow we are taking a trip to another fish store for some more info on reef tanks.

I haven't yet gotten hooked into a club but that will be next.

BBB


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

The canister filter I bought holds several liters of media. The way I have it set up, more than half of it is media for bacterial colonies so I think it should be plenty. The bacteria also populates the substrate and a lot of the surfaces in the tank. I really liked the biowheels, but the canister has a lot of flexibility and it also holds a lot more filter material.

The UPS is a great idea, I never would have thought of that. If it's just the filter and a powerhead plugged into it, the current draw would be very small. I think my filter draws 5 watts and the powerhead about the same.

Don't be scared into indecision, it's only money and the lives of your fish in your hands









Mike


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

I'm on a 3 month schedule with my canister filter, and I love it. Of course, I only have 2 fish in my 30 gal., a 5" ciclid, and a 7" Pleco. The ciclid took care of the other three I bought him with. Oh well, survival of the fittest.

Tim


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Real close to starting up the tank and getting it ready to cycle for about four weeks.

The tank stand actually is turing our OK. I was a little rusty on the tools but not bad - I'll post a picture when it is finished. I'm setting it up without waiting for the doors to be completed - I can add those while the tank is cycling.

I'm definitely going marine - likely a reef tank. A little concerned about how well I can maintain it but I'll go slow and once the tank is ready for the first critter I'll likely add live rock and wait, then a coral and wait, then... well, you get the idea.

The whole family is pretty excited.

Thanks for the UPS idea Katrina - very good idea that I hadn't thought of either.

The money doesn't scare me but it's tough to lose a critter (or entire tank) due to something I did or didn't do. I recently read a paper by a vet on euthanasia and he said it is a tendancy for us fish folk to anthropomorphize fish (and other pets) and get too wrapped up in our fish. I'm probably going to be that way. (by the way, he recommended a trip through the blender -quick and, uh, thorough - rather than down the toilet which is just cruel).

BBB


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

From what I have heard, and this is of course 4th or 5th hand, the marine tanks are harder to get started up and running, but once moving along nicely, are easier to maintain.

Good luck, and keep me posted on whether that is true or not.

Tim


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Yes me too, very interested on how things get going for you.

Tim,

I just switched to the canister and will clean it at two months to see how dirty it is. I've only got 3 angels, 5 small cory catfish and a pleco in my 45. Ultimately I'd like to get at least three months between cleanings but we'll see.


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

I'll keep a diary and pictures and post it on my website to avoid bogging down Outbackers.com

Apparently, when a reef tank stablizes, it shouldn't need to have the canister filter changed more than once every three months (obviously that is a number to work up to).

I'm also going to use a sand suspension filter for added bio filtering. I'm going to see how it goes and if it looks like I need it, I'll do a refugium (didn't even know that word until a few weeks ago) hung on the back of the tank - got to leave enough room behind the tank for it).

Meanwhile, sand, paint, sand, paint...


----------



## campntn (Feb 20, 2005)

I have a 30 gallon upright tank of Cichlids. I have had aquariums since I was a kid and this is the most beautiful/hardy/tank for the time I put in that I've ever had. I've had salt,tropicals,oranda tanks and for a busy lifestyle, cichlids are the best..I think. But I like life simple. 
I like the brightness and business of the Cichlids. They're more active than tropicals/golds. Once a month, I take out bout 3-5 gals, clean the front/sides and leave algae on the back, change the filter, add a lil salt, clean the lift tubes and turn the lite off till the fish gunk settles down. 2 hrs later, crystal clear.
Seems like lotsa campers have aquariums. 
OH well, that's my two cents worth...cichlids. 
Mark


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Well, for those of you who've been following the get-BBB-through-the-winter-fish-tank-stand saga, tomorrow represents a milestone; we are bringing the stand into the house and anchoring it to the wall. It still doesn't have the doors installed but that is OK - those I can do while the tank cycles. The sucker is HEAVY!









I'll post a picture sometime this weekend.

BBB


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Can't wait to see the pic's.

Tim


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Pics please









Also keep us updated on the reef setup progress. I will be living my saltwater tank ambitions vicariously thru you.









Mike


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Well,
The stand is in the house (sorry about there being no pictures yet - got busy on the doors and failed to do it) and we took back the freshwater materials and started the shift to the reef setup. STICKER SHOCK! Ouch! The light is $250 by itself. Live rock - $7.50 per POUND and I need 50 lbs! (Actually we can mix live rock and regular rock that is similar if we can't justify the additional bio filtering from the live rock) We are looking at 3-4 weeks for the first fish (that I knew) six weeks after start to get the first coral and maybe six MONTHS for the first anenome.

I've read multiple books so far and I'm on a fist name basis with the zoologist at our local marine supply place, and I'm just now feeling semi competent at pulling together an equipment list. Advances in the filtration systems over the last 20 years have been phenomenal!

One should not start a reef tank without a lot of careful consideration.







Still, we are going ahead with it.

I'm still working on the pictures. We were struggling with placement of the tank - one of those things you think you've got figured out until you put the stand in place and realize that you need to sell half your furniture first.

A pretty negative post perhaps but we are still pretty pumped about the project - just a lot slower than we frst thought. I'll try and post pictures this afternoon - really I will.

BBB


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Hang in there, I'm sure you'll get it going. Check outdrsfostersmith They have good equipment pricing (sometimes half of lfs prices) and you can order live rock, etc. from them.

Mike


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Foster and Smith is a good source - my local place is often a little cheaper but I always check.

Still working ont he fish tank stand you understand (hence the hanging light - not yet attached, no doors, etc.). Here is the picture:


----------



## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

Looks great Brain, you are doing some nice work. What size is the tank?

Tim


----------



## campntn (Feb 20, 2005)

Great lookin setup dood. I admire your guts. Those reef tanks are beautiful! Your right tho bout the expense. I work with some doc's with some reef tanks and they're VERY expensive, but beautiful and relaxing. 
Enjoy. Make sure the cab has wheels to roll into the Outback for show and tell at the cg.


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Looking really good there Brain









Is that the recliner in front of the big screen I see in the background??

Mike


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Tim,
The tank is a 55. Just about the smallest I would consider for a reef tank. I don't understand how people keep their micro-reef tanks going - one problem and tank death.

Campntn,
The reef tank is a challenge that I hadn't realized I'd been missing. I've gotten away from many of my hobbies when we decided to make the 30 year committment to kid raising. I'm really looking forward to this.

Mike,
The recliner is on the other side of the room - NO ONE sits there but me. Great view of the big screen AND the new reef tank. (Maybe I'll get some binoculars for reef viewing during commercials.) Some day I'll have to make time to watch the darn thing!









BBB


----------



## rennerbee (Jul 25, 2004)

Beautiful Brian. Hope you'll post pix when it's completed.


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Thought I'd finish off this thread that was started way back int he winter when camping was just a thought and summer seemed so far away.

Well, it is finished (I havent gotten the shelves back from the glass place however and I still have all my fish stuff in the cabinets meant for more decorative stuff but...).

Here is a design and finished product picture:


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

Looks really great Brian!!

What have you got in there so far??

Mike


----------



## BigBadBrain (Aug 26, 2004)

Roughly 35 hermit crabs from one inch to half inch, about the same numebr of sand sifter snails and tiger snails, one blenney, one coral beauty angel and a percula clown. Haven't started on the corals yet - still waiting for the tank to mature a bit.

We started with 30 pounds of live rock to kick start the cycle.

We really hadn't planned on a live sand bed but we got one anyway (it just showed up). We are using a fluval 304 canister filter and a prism skimmer. The chemistry is balanced and even the nitates are staying level (no live plants but still the nitrates are level - hard to figure that one but apparently the bio filter is pretty robust).

Our next addition will likely be a wrasse.

Another couple of months and we should start adding corals assuming the tank stays balanced.

BBB


----------

