# The Saga Continues



## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

I always enjoyed looking at new trailers........BUT, now that I'm ready to buy a new fifth wheel, the search is beginning to lose it's luster.

I've been researching and looking for months. As mentioned earlier, the mswalts are kind of picky. If I'm going to spend that kind of money, I want exactly what I want. Nothing less. No settling for second choices.

Thought I found the perfect match......The Cedar Creek Silverback 36WQB. I've mentioned it before. I looked and looked (and looked and looked and looked, well, you get the idea). But, alas, I waited too long......now it's (they're)gone. Placed an order with FunTime RV in Texas. Found out two days later, Forest River discontinued that line.....

Now, figured I'd go with the Forest River Cardinal 3804BH, a little larger, and, frankly, a really nice trailer!! Asked FunTime for a quote on ordering one the way I wanted it. Waited for a few days for FunTime to price one out for me (of course they don't have one in stock!). Finally got tired of waiting and emailed them AGAIN asking for a quote and/or a return of the deposit I gave them when I ordered the Silverback. Finally heard from the salesman yesterday. Long story short, they're not carrying that line any more, either! Salesman seemed to think Forest River is cancelling that model, too. See them all over the internet, BTW. 2009 and 2010.

Now, I'm starting to get upset....with Funtime (Texas's largest RV dealership) for not doing much to get back to me with needed information (and my deposit) and, frankly, it seems they don't care if they get the sale or not. And, secondly, upset with the entire buying process. Fired off an email to Holman RV in Ohio (of course, they have one listed on their website) asking them to confirm the "rumor" of Forest River discontinuing that line of trailer. Am supposed to hear from their internet sales manager today. Maybe. Hopefully.

I just hate to "settle" for something when I'd really like something else. Maybe I should wait a while longer to see what 2010 has to offer?????? My biggest concern is that prices aren't going to get any cheaper.

OK, now that I"ve vented a little, I feel better. It's not like I HAVE to have a fifth wheel anyway. I have a perfectly good Outback that has served us well. I just WANT more room.

Thanks for listening.

Mark


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

That's what we're here for - listening and commenting. I'd be darned frustrated, too.

If I were in your shoes, I'd demand my deposit be returned and then tell them that I wouldn't buy a trailer from them if they were the last dealer on the face of the earth! And that I will be sure to spread the good word about their customer service attitude. There is *NO* excuse for treating a prospective customer that way.

I have to wonder, though - are they in financial trouble? Perhaps they cannot get units from factories because they aren't paying on time. If that's the case, I'd be DARNED sure to get back my deposit money returned ASAP. Then run, as fast as I can, to a dealer that seems to want to sell units.

Just my opinion. (And I'm pretty bull-headed about this kinda stuff.)

Mike


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Even many of the big dealers have went to paying COD when they buy an RV from the factory. This is totally changing there inventory. Since Forest River bought Coachman, the Cedar Creek line was dropped. Some dealers are totally changing there inventories because weve had 17 mfrs go broke. Some mfrs give better deals to the dealers if they take there whole line, so maybe before they were a fleetwood dealer(example), and now another maker will be there predominant line. So they are dropping fill in lines that they used to have. I can tell you the entire rv biz is in dismay. You arent the only one having trouble finding what you want. The dealers are in the same boat. Dealers no longer have the backing from banks, so they are no longer able to keep there lots totally full of rv's. Many will need to be special ordered till we get thru this problem.

Many of the larger dealers are in worse trouble than the smaller family run biz's. The larger dealers made lots of money in there F&I departments. They used to get around a 1 point cut on the interest rate charged to you from the bank. This made some large dealers way over 1/2 million in profit per year. That is now gone, as consumers have went to paying cash, or financing thru there credit unions on there own. The smaller dealers didnt rely on that like the larger ones. Thats one reason why smaller dealers charge more for an rv. They dont make money on the backside that most people never know about. Many larger dealers make more profit on a sale than the small dealers even though the small dealer is asking more up front for that rv.

Companies like lakeshore sell at volume and were also used to making a point or two on the backside unknowingly to you. I can tell you that dealers like Holman and Lakeshore are not seeing the profit they used to make. I will bet there prices creep up because of this.

There is no way the larger dealers can afford to have a full lot since they have to pay cod for each trailer. The smaller ones never had as much inventory and its easier to keep there floors full..

The factories including keystone are having trouble keeping up right now, because they were set up to build few trailers this year and orders are double what any mfr thought. The stick and tin, and the cheaper smooth sides like our outbacks are selling like hot cakes, so they are reopening factories to keep up with this new demand.

The cheap 5er lines are also selling well. The higher end lines are selling well too. The mid lines arent selling at all.. It used to be the mid lines were the bread and butter for everyone. Now the cheap lines are the bread and butter. There is not near the profit in the cheap lines as there was the mid lines. This is causing dealers and factories to lose money. This is changing the entire way the dealers and factories are run.

So about all I can tell you is be patient, and expect to drive out of state to find what you want.

Texas is the no. 1 rv market in our present economy. Texas dealers need inventory but the factories cant get it to them. And remember that some Texas dealers cant afford to buy the huge amounts of nventory they once used to have. Texas has the most screwed up inventories in the nation because of all these problems.

I can tell you Forest River is not dumping there Cardinal line. The Cardinal line has been a staple to Forest River for years. When I picked up up my Big horn on Saturday bound for lubbock, there was a whole row of new Cardinals in our yard.

So as of last Saturday, the Cardinal line is still around.

Carey


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## GoodTimes (Mar 9, 2009)

As far as your deposit: I wouldn't wait for it to arrive in the mail - I'd call them and tell them that I'll be there to pick it up (insert date and time) - and then let them know that they're toast when it comes to your next purchase (I'm sure you can elaborate and be more eloquent than that!). Good Luck.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

The 2010 models started in Feb this year. The 2011 models will start in Jan. of 2010.

The factories done this so a dealer would have a longer period to sell a trailer. it used to be july 15th was the time they changed to the next model year.

With the economy the dealers ask the factories to up the model years so they dont get stuck with old trailers.

Like I said, things are terribly screwed up right now.. Hang in there!

Carey


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Sorry to hear of all of the issues.









I wouldn't settle if I were you. Wait until you find the one you want because it's a good deal of money you are talking about.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Here is an article just posted on RV Business. This could be another problem why we are having trouble finding inventory. Components to bulld the RV's.

Like Ive told Doug, when we emerge from all this the Outback will be the No.1 RV sold in North America.

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A steady increase in retail sales indicates recovery in the recreational vehicle industry is coming, but too quick of an upturn could constrict manufacturers in 2010, according to The Elkhart Truth.

Tom Walworth, president of Statistical Surveys Inc., outlined the condition of the RV market Thursday afternoon (Aug. 20) at Keystone RV Co. The towable manufacturer was celebrating the 40,000th Outback brand unit rolling off the assembly line. Company officials and production workers enjoyed a midday barbecue to mark the milestone.

Travel trailers, like the Outback on display in the plant, will most likely lead the RV industry from the recession, Walworth said. Next will come Class A motorhomes followed by fifth-wheels.

Loosening of credit coupled with improvements in consumer confidence and the stock market have brought buyers back to dealers' lots, Walworth said. Plus Baby Boomers remain the largest segment of the population purchasing the units, so as their ranks swell so should RV ownership. Even if some Boomers choose to replenish their retirement accounts instead of buying a motorhome or towable, "an awful lot" of this generation will still be coming into the market, he said.

According to Statistical Surveys, the retail market posted the following results through June:

80,149 travel trailers, fifth wheels and camping trailers have been sold. The towable market is down 33% from 2008 but has grown 27% from January. 
10,333 motorhomes have been sold. Motorized sales are off 35% from 2008 but have improved 29.5% from January. 
"I'm shocked, right now, at the strength of the retail market compared to the wholesale market," Walworth said.

The traditional stockpiling of inventory did not happen during the months prior to the 2009 selling season which, depending on what occurs in the winter months, could make the industry vulnerable next year, Walworth said. Specifically, if the RV market meets the predicted growth rate of 27%, manufacturers may have trouble getting the components needed to build the units to meet customer demand.

In particular, the onus will be on suppliers who will have to know the right time to order the doors, windows, refrigerators, frames and other parts, Walworth said. Waiting too long could leave manufacturers' shelves empty, slowing production and the industry's recovery.

During this recession, Keystone has increased its marketshare 22.5% through June; the Outback brand alone has jumped 12%, according to Statistical Surveys.

That pace kept Thursday's party short and will soon get the 40,000th unit shipped to a dealer for sale to a customer.

"I'm just excited for the team," said Matt Zimmerman, general manager of the Outback division. "They do a phenomenal job for us day in and day out to give our dealers and customers exactly what they need."


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## Yianni (Aug 30, 2006)

Mark,
I have a new fiver on order from Holmans. Should be here in a couple of weeks.
They have been great to deal with. Call Jamie and talk to her. I like phone for the most part
on these kind of things as opposed to email because you get a much faster response.
Jamie has been very good answering questions and returning calls.
They were much cheaper than my local dealer. I'm doing a road trip from California to Ohio
to pick it up.
Good luck and hang in there.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

I can buy the story about it being hard to get certain units because the market is demanding more than the manufacturers were prepared to build and deliver. But a salesman's job is to try to sell you something, even if it isn't what you want. The fact that they don't seem too eager to even work with you and try to convince you to buy something else is what bothers me. It is not like a sales department to turn a deaf ear to someone who has put down a deposit and wants to spend money. Around here, the salesmen would be fighting to see who gets to sell you a unit! When we walk onto an RV dealer's lot, even to get a part, there are at least 2-3 salespeople who ask if we've been helped yet. (And they don't really know us - we just look like prospects to them.)

That's their job - to sell you a trailer. If they aren't any good at that, then I'd be a bit concerned about the treatment I'd get if I did buy a unit from them and then had to get some warranty work done.

No sir - I'd get my deposit back ASAP and look elsewhere. Some place that is hungry for a sale.

(And when you tell them you'll be there at such-and-such a time, on such-and-such a date, to pick up your deposit money, I'd inform them that if the check isn't ready, you'll start charging them interest - just like a bank would do if they loaned you money. 'Cause that's what you've done - loan them money that you could be earning interest on.)

Again - just my opinion.

Mike


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Scoutr2 said:


> I can buy the story about it being hard to get certain units because the market is demanding more than the manufacturers were prepared to build and deliver. But a salesman's job is to try to sell you something, even if it isn't what you want. The fact that they don't seem too eager to even work with you and try to convince you to buy something else is what bothers me. It is not like a sales department to turn a deaf ear to someone who has put down a deposit and wants to spend money. Around here, the salesmen would be fighting to see who gets to sell you a unit! When we walk onto an RV dealer's lot, even to get a part, there are at least 2-3 salespeople who ask if we've been helped yet. (And they don't really know us - we just look like prospects to them.)
> 
> That's their job - to sell you a trailer. If they aren't any good at that, then I'd be a bit concerned about the treatment I'd get if I did buy a unit from them and then had to get some warranty work done.
> 
> ...


Great point! When I deliver a trailer to Texas, people I deal with dont have the do whatever it takes attitude. Most are very laid back because biz is good.. I also see this around some of the bigger cities around the US. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I have some dealers go thru a trailer for hours looking for stuff wrong so they can get a price break from the mfr, and you as well as I know that is never returned to you, nor is it ever fixed.. Even if we all like to see a dealer doing flips for you doesnt mean much anymore. Some of those are out to shiest ya.

If a peron like Walt knows exactly what he wants and a salesman knows he cant fill that want, many salepeople will lay down and not help ya anymore. We all know out of a dealership, there is maybe 1 or 2 good salespeople and the rest are just taking up space.. We've all seen these kind.. Maybe thats what Walt is dealing with here.. But if he wants a Cardinal and this dealership can no longer get one for him, then what can anyone do..

A dealer has to jump thru some hoops to get on with a mfr. Its not like any dealer can order any trailer.

Carey


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

> Its not like any dealer can order any trailer.


Yeah, but Fun Time carries Cardinals! I'm guessing they don't want to order me one because they are apparently dropping that line.

Still waiting on word from Holman. Jamie is probably emailing me at work since that's where I contacted her and she first replied. Won't be back there to check emails until Monday.

I'm also trying to find someone closer by who might be able to order what I want.

Mark


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

mswalt said:


> > Its not like any dealer can order any trailer.
> 
> 
> Yeah, but Fun Time carries Cardinals! I'm guessing they don't want to order me one because they are apparently dropping that line.
> ...


They may still have them. which is fine, but have broken there deal with FR, so they cant get anymore, nor can they get any from other dealers..

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Hanner Trailer & Recreational Vehicles 
1540 W. I-20 
Baird, TX 79504 
Phone 325-854-1133 
Fax 325-854-1132 
E-Mail [email protected] 
Web Site www.hannerrv.com

RV Outlet Mall 
4500 S. IH-35 
Georgetown, TX 78628 
Phone 512-930-4922 
Fax 512-930-0695 
E-Mail [email protected] 
Web Site www.rvoutletmall.com

These are the closest Cardinal dealers accordingly to FR website.

Carey


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Thanks Carey, I've emailed them already. Hanner's is only about 15 miles away. But, they aren't known to make many DEALS. At least not in the past.

We'll see.

Mark


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Mark - sure am sorry to hear of your troubles getting a new 5'er. We wish you the best of luck getting the one you want. Did you guys sell the RQS?

-CC


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

> Did you guys sell the RQS?


No, not yet. Figured I'd just trade it in.

Mark


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