# Dodge Died



## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

Went camping for the first time this year last weekend and ended up with a flat tire on the camper and ended up replacing another one. Coming back, had a 40 mph head wind and the truck was running hot, having to use 3rd gear just to keep going. Got half way home and the truck gave a clunk and died. Could not get it started again. luckily only 1/2 mile from a church we have went to before and called some friends and they came with a small Jeep and pulled the 1T Dodge with the 30' 5th wheel attached into the parking lot. tried several things and figured it was fuel problem. Had it towed to the dealer and got the dreaded call. New Fuel lift pump, new injector pump, new water pump and something else, quit listening to the tune of $4500 to repair. Being a 2000 model with 180,000 miles on it, not sure if its a smart thing to repair or what to do. What this means though is no camping until we get it repaired or replaced.

Question is; if I replace do I want another diesel or go with a big gas unit. I got 10 - 12 mpg pulling the 5er and about 15-16 without. Anyone have any idea what a gasser would do? The thought right now is to sell the truck for parts (got a $3200 rebuild on the Auto Trany and everything else is good mechanically exc. the fuel system) and they trading in our newer van and getting a truck with 4 doors. I know gas milage would suck, but can't afford another payment. Any ideas or Helps on this. I might think about replacing some of the stuff myself on this truck.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

I am going to vote for repair and add a fuel pressure gauge for the lift pump. The injection pump most likely died due to a lift pump failure.

If you opt for new stick with diesel if your mainly going to tow with it. That is the only way to go.


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## Calvin&Hobbes (May 24, 2006)

Sorry to hear about the troubles.... I recently had to cross that same type of "bridge" so to speak. My 15 year old pickup truck (1995 F150 extended cab w/ 140K) had some bad rust on the spring mounts and spring perch hangers, as well as the brake lines. The remedy wasnt cheap, to the tune of about $1200. Had to ask myself, do I want to dump more money into it, or cut my losses and get another truck to replace it. Problem was, I couldn't sell her as she was, so I'd end up parting her out, and I couldn't get another truck like it for $1200... Then I figured this out. I asked my mechanic if there was any other glaring issues that may need to be addressed in the near future, to which he replied "to my knowledge (key word) everything looks good- because you've kept up on mantenance". So, whereas the old girl doesnt owe me anything (been paid off for years), and the old saying "the devil you know is better than the devil you dont" (meaning a replacemnet truck could have any number of unknown problems) and not wanting any payments, I dumped the money into her......and I'm kind of glad, as she's comfortable like an old barn coat and she's got personality....


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

There are some other issues. The present truck is a regular cab unit, and it's tight when we take one of our grandsons with us and impossible to take both. The only other issue that I see with the truck it needs some body work, but still is very functional. Looking in the near as well as further, will need something I can trust since we will be retiring in a few years and relying on what we got. If we stick with a 5th wheeler, we will only have the truck to use all the time. Other problem is that I don't have the $4500 to repair right now and will need the camper with in the next month. I've got a guy looking for a buyer for the truck right now. If I can get about $4000 out of it, should be able to swing an upgraded truck (hopefully). I know sounds like I am already convinced to replace. I'm just looking for options. Got a few weeks to think about it. Really thinking about moving away from Diesel thou. Cost wise, would be about the same price to drive with the present cost of fuel. Also, around here no one except for the dealer that is 35 miles away wants to even have the Diesel in their parking lot let alone work on them. Just up in the air right now on what to do.

BTW the fuel pump was functioning when I tested it after it died. I think that the injector pump has been going for a while, lower mpg, lower power, a little harder to start. But, because the water pump being weak and radiator needing cleaned maybe, pushing against a 50 mph head wind caused the temp of the truck to run high and I'm thinking finally finished off a part that was already weak. Oh well, first things first. Get everything back home as see where to go from there.

BTW2 which is the best 3/4 or 1T gas PU?


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

Lmbevard said:


> BTW2 which is the best 3/4 or 1T gas PU?


IMHO there's no replacement for displacement. That leaves a Ford V10 or a GM 8.1 liter. Either one would work for you. But both are very thirsty, even empty.


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## willingtonpaul (Apr 16, 2010)

you could also look for a used cummins from a donor truck and swap 'em out. i would imagine there are some shops out your way that could do that, get an engine from a wreck.


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

rsm7 said:


> BTW2 which is the best 3/4 or 1T gas PU?


IMHO there's no replacement for displacement. That leaves a Ford V10 or a GM 8.1 liter. Either one would work for you. But both are very thirsty, even empty.
[/quote]
That's the other factor. Trade in the van that gets 24 mpg for a truck that gets 10. Deciding really sucks.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Sorry to hear of the problems. Honestly, for a budget truck, I'd say gasser is the cheaper way. I'm a big fan of the 6.8L, but then again I'm biased. If you go that route, the 3v version has more torque, so I'd go that way.


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## akjason (Jan 2, 2011)

Coming from someone that has upgraded four trucks in the last three years, I vote repair it and keep it. If it's paid for it's a one-ton work horse that originally cost thousands more. I purchased my 2008 Diesel and am to the point where having no payments of 500/month will be a GREAT thing. Not to mention for 500/month I essentially am paying for a $6,000 repair every year (if your considering a newer truck). My old man drives a 1999 F250 with a 1-ton rear end and he is debating on getting rid of it for another vehicle, trading it in for 2,000 bucks. To me that just sounds insane, keep the truck save up the money and buy a different vehicle with the down payment if need be.

I would spend the 4500, and continue to pull your fiver for many years to come.


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

I would look into repair. Check the aftermarket and do your research on upgraded parts to replace with and then you would be able to really look long term. That cummis has alot of miles left in it and more efficient miles with some upgrades. Also research a garage that is not a dealer and you may find a cheaper repair with better parts.

When I bought my current truck the old owner just spent $4000 to replace all factory ford parts from a dealer. New Egr cooler, oil cooler and turbo. I could have a had a bulletproof egr cooler set up and aftermarket upgraded turbo, installed by a very reliable mechanic for at least $1000 less.

Just IMHO.

Jim

Of course you mentioned it doesnt REALLY fit for you being a reg. cab, so that is where the hard part of the decision comes in.


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## GO WEST (May 25, 2009)

Taking the grandkids may well be MORE important when you retire. Tough with a single cab. If not for that factor, the repair would be better. If you decide to repair, shop around for less $ but still reputable. 180K on a Cummins isn't too much.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

I would fix it myself, then sell it. A running rig is going to bring you more money or a bigger trade in. I have found that working your own truck is not as hard as they would like you to think. The only advantage they over you is they might have a special tool that you don't have. 
Good Luck


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

A friend at work had his VP44 injection pump fail on his 2002 Dodge last year. Tt was about $2,100 to replace at the dealer. The lift pump is about $300 and can be installed pretty easily in less than an hour. Several companies make good replacements instead of the Dodge unit, my friend got this one http://www.genosgarage.com/prodinfo.asp?number=FASS_DDRP_02. I've heard that the standard dealer fix for the lift pump is to install a new system with an in fuel tank pump like the newer trucks and this is a very expensive fix and is not needed. I don't know about the water pump cost but a few hundred seems reasonable. My guess is that if you do some searching you can get the whole thing fixed for under $3K which is still a lot but it might be easier to manage. When his VP44 injection pump failed we did some searching and there are some aftermarket ones you can get but it didn't seem like they were any better than the standard Cummins part. The injection pump costs about $1,000 and the rest of the expense is the installation.

FYI - This was one of the sites we looked at when researching a fix for the truck.

http://www.bluechipdiesel.com/VP44INFO.html

They have instructions posted that show how to change the VP44 and it doesn't look too bad if you're reasonably proficient with auto repairs.


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

Thanks guys for all the input. The main factor is right now the money to get the part and the fact that we will need the camper within the next month. I have already replaced the fuel lift pump but bought a direct replacement which was a mistake but it's easily installed. Agree the in-line replacement is not the best way to go. Water pump shouldn't be too hard. The only hard one would be the VP44. I have found one for around $1100 but it's the few specialized tools that is needed. there was one more thing wrong but I had stopped listening.

If I replace, I will be downgrading to a newer gasser and a 3/4 T just to save some money up front and because there isn't that many 1 T duellies around. Problem then is that I might be shooting myself in the foot down the road when it comes to upgrading the 5th wheel to a bigger unit. But, by then we will be pulling the unit to a new site and leaving it there for months and using the truck to drive around in. It would be nice to get a 4 dr. truck so we can take more people with us, and right now if we trade off the Carvan on the truck we would still just have the one payment, just a few years longer. Only problem would be getting a 5th wheel hitch in the 6 1/2' box.

I'm look at the options. Will do a little truck looking this week while I'm getting the truck and camper back home. Did see one that I might look at in town. there's a 2004 GMC 2500 crew cab 4x4 with the quadrasteer thingy to it. Lower mileage and looks really clean. Listing right now at $17,500 so is in the ballpark price wise. hate to say it, I still like Chevy's.


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## COCostas (Aug 13, 2010)

We had similar (but not quite as severe) issues on our trip to TX last month. The first thing I'd suggest is have your truck towed AWAY from the dealership and to a place that works on semi's. Towing our OB to Texas our truck suddenly lost power and had tons of white exhaust. We thought we had a bad fuel filter. We pulled into a shop that works on semis and didn't even have to unhook our trailer. The big-rig shop changed our filter and we headed down the road. Just a couple miles away we continued to have troubles - no power, lots of smoke, chugging, etc. Turned around and took it back to the shop and they discovered that our factory lift pump had gone bad and had been part of a voluntary recall YEARS ago (our truck is a '98 Ram 2500 w/Cummins). If we received the notice, we don't remember it! Luckily they had the right part in stock and replaced it. Our total bill for the filter and new pump and labor was under $400. Now, this was in a tiny town full of semi repair shops because it's on a trucking route in SE Colorado BUT I'm sure we would have paid out the nose at our local Dodge dealership. It sounds like you have quite a bit more going wrong, but I'd bet you'll save money by going elsewhere, repairing the truck and NOT having to buy a new vehicle.

Good luck!


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## Just Add Dirt (May 5, 2009)

Just a thought; 
I have a 2008 F250 4X4, 5/4 ton..that's right 5/4 ton; all set up for towing with a bully dogged http://www.bullydog.com/ 5.4 L gasser for sale. It was used only as tow vehicle; (the Toy Hauler 28KRS), and has less than 20K mile on it and looks, runs and smells brand new. It has the Supercab, Kenwood DVD w/NAV in dash, MB Motoring Polished Alum Wheels and 35 X 12.5 X 17" Nitto Terra Grappler tires on her + 2" lift, and most of all the other bells and whistles. I have to go start it every few weeks, to keep it honest. I wanted $25K; NADA is $26.6K; I'll take $23K (trade in value), I'll even throw in the Programer. You can tune up the HP when towing and tune her down for fuel economy when not. I can pick you up at BWI airport. just a thought.
If you go to my gallery the last 5 pictures are of the Truck.










My link

My link

My link

email me @ [email protected] if interested.


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

Oh man! Day late and a few dollar short! Looked at a 2004 GMC 2500 with the Quadrasteer and at a 2001 Chevy 1500HD. Both with the crewcab. Deal fell through on the 2004 and I wasn't comfortable pulling with the HD. Coming home went past a dealer we had glanced at going out of town and they had just put out a 2003 Ford F250 Laruet crewcab (Black!). Test drove it and even though it does not have as much power as the Chevys, I know a lot of people that pull bigger units than mine with the same truck. Very clean and hopefully get better mileage than the Chevy 6.0l. Go to the CU tomorrow to see about getting the money. by the way, they lowered their price to below book and raised the trade-in price up to top book so getting it for $5395 difference. God sometimes does supply, even if it is a Ford.


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## Traveling Tek (Oct 15, 2010)

As my dad always says, the cheapest car to drive is the one you own. Get a second opinion on installation.  That being said, I had a diesel now I have a gasser, and I hate the gasser. Fuel economy is half the diesel and power is 1/3 the diesel. Just my 2 cents worth.


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## Partsman Ed (Aug 26, 2008)

I would fix the truck (myself), sell it, buy a good used 1 ton truck supercab (at least) so that when and if you upgrade to a 5th wheel you have a truck that will pull it. The weight of the 5th wheels these days "require" a 1 ton truck-most of the time.

JMO


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## Partsman Ed (Aug 26, 2008)

Plus, I'd buy a diesel as opposed to gas.....


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

Ended up getting the F250. Nice truck. Do know that I will be loosing gas mileage and pulling power but needed the seating and room inside. Finally got the Dodge Diesel back home so there is two trucks sitting in front of my house. Still have to get a hitch installed in the Ford so looking into that. As far as a fix to the Dodge, I could get parts and try it myself for about $2000 or get someone to do the injector pump for a little more, but it has some other problems where I would have to spend more money on it than I would like if I was going to keep it a few more years.

That being said, I am trying to sell it as is. Retail price on KBB is $12,500, private sale in fair condition is $9200, and low trade in is still over $6200. Offering it for $4500 you pickup. Nice truck but not suitable for all the short trips I take with it. Diesels like to work, not just run to Wal-Mart.


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

Lmbevard said:


> Ended up getting the F250. Nice truck. Do know that I will be loosing gas mileage and pulling power but needed the seating and room inside. Finally got the Dodge Diesel back home so there is two trucks sitting in front of my house. Still have to get a hitch installed in the Ford so looking into that. As far as a fix to the Dodge, I could get parts and try it myself for about $2000 or get someone to do the injector pump for a little more, but it has some other problems where I would have to spend more money on it than I would like if I was going to keep it a few more years.
> 
> That being said, I am trying to sell it as is. Retail price on KBB is $12,500, private sale in fair condition is $9200, and low trade in is still over $6200. Offering it for $4500 you pickup. Nice truck but not suitable for all the short trips I take with it. Diesels like to work, not just run to Wal-Mart.


What motor did you get with the Ford?


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

It's got the 5.4 l. I know, a weak engine, No V10. Will be interesting to see what it does when I have the Outback attached. I think from now on I'm going to listen to my wife when she wants to stay another night instead of bucking the wind. It is a pretty black truck though.


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## rsm7 (Aug 8, 2009)

Lmbevard said:


> It's got the 5.4 l. I know, a weak engine, No V10. Will be interesting to see what it does when I have the Outback attached. I think from now on I'm going to listen to my wife when she wants to stay another night instead of bucking the wind. It is a pretty black truck though.


Well at least you now have a crew cab so you can take those precious grand kids! But we still need pics!


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## WWH (May 7, 2010)

My opinion is biased since I was a Service Manager for 24 years but I would repair it if the rest of the truck is in good shape. You will spend a LOT of money to get a truck that will do what that one will do. And unless you buy a new one or know for sure the used truck you are trying to buy has been maintained and not chipped, and has not had a K&N type air filter on it you may shortly be in the same situation just different sheet metal to look at.

I have a 98 2500 Dodge with 200k on it and I have no intention of loosing it. I get 21 MPG empty and 12 towing my Fiver at 65MPH. When I was a Service Manager I had several fleets that drove these trucks 600 to 800 thousand miles before they replaced them. One only purchased used trucks with over 100 thousand miles on them due to the depreciated cost and the life left in them. Their only requirement was no chips and no evidence of K&N air filters from an inspection of the intake piping and intercooler. These trucks towed loaded gooseneck trailers every day, often driven by drivers that drove them HARD since it was not their truck.

You have a lot of truck to work with.

I did have the same lift pump and Injector pump issues everyone has had. I replaced the lift pump with an Air Dog pump kit with 1/2 in fuel lines instead of the 1/4 inch line with restrictive 1/8 in banjo bolts. It has a 2 micron filter and delivers 14 psi which is the pressure relief setting in the injection pump.

The VP44 pump relies on fuel flow to cool and lubricate the pump. Even with the in tank conversion Dodge came out with you still have the restrictive fuel lines that are an issue. There are places like Vulcan Performance where you can get rebuilt pumps and good quality replacement parts. If your fuel injectors have not been replaced yet they may also need to be replaced soon.

I now work at the corporate level in a dealer group and from the prices I see for new and used diesels I will drive mine for at least another 10 years. If you decide to replace the truck with a gas model pay close attention to the rear end gear ratio. This makes more of an impact on towing performance than engine size.

Hope my comments were helpful and everything works out for you.


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

Thanks for the help. I ended up buying a 2003 Ford F250 crewcab with the 5.4 L Auto. Very clean car with the only mod a timer/clock/temp thingy that I'm going to loose really fast. The 2000 Dodge is home and I am looking to sell it as is. It's only a regular cab, the body is rough and it tends to overheat when pulling hard. The best it got is 18 mpg once but usually about 16 unloaded and between 8.5 and 12 mpg with the camper. Took the Ford up to get the hitch installed and according to the trip computer got 13.3 empty going 70 mph against the wind and for just the 50 mile trip back with a side wind got 8.1 with the camper on it. With the differences in the price of fuel vs gas, very close to the same cost towing but with added comfort and space.

If the Dodge had been at least an extended cab, I would have fixed since it is paid for. Instead it just made sense to trade off my Carvan and stay with one payment.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

> no chips and no evidence of K&N air filters


That is absolutely correct. The engineers at the various car manufacturers know what they are doing and there isn't any conspiracy to give the customer something less than what they paid for. Chipping, K&N's, air shocks, amsoil, etc, etc are just stuff that cost you money.

Those things might give you a little more power or even a little better fuel mileage and more power, but eventually you pay for it. Nothing quite as good as running a rig stock and within stated manufacturer guide lines. That's the way it was designed to run and that's the way it will last the longest. IMHO


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

vdub said:


> > no chips and no evidence of K&N air filters
> 
> 
> That is absolutely correct. The engineers at the various car manufacturers know what they are doing and there isn't any conspiracy to give the customer something less than what they paid for. Chipping, K&N's, air shocks, amsoil, etc, etc are just stuff that cost you money.
> ...


This is not 100% true, had he had aftermarket gauges he may have caught the failure before it racked up thousands of dollars in failed parts. Stock is the manufactures best trade off between cost of production and hoped for life of the equipment. I put a programmer, gauges, air filter, intake and water injection on my truck well before the warranty was up. There are a few more mods like, fuel system and transmission parts that will come but they need money that I have yet to allocate. I know the truck will last many years to come and it all relates to how much attention to detail you have, some are comfortable with it and some are not. Just because a truck is modified does not mean it has been abused.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

> Just because a truck is modified does not mean it has been abused.


Of course that is true, but I would wager that in most instances it would be the exception. You and I live in the same area and all you have to do is look around at who is putting the chips in and more often than not it's the same folks who are jacking the rigs up and putting huge tires under it. All you have to do is spend some time at the mod shops and see who their customers are. They aren't the middle-aged guy down the street looking for a better way to monitor his engine. Just saying.....


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

CamperAndy said:


> There are a few more mods like, fuel system and transmission parts that will come but they need money that I have yet to allocate. I know the truck will last many years to come and it all relates to how much attention to detail you have, some are comfortable with it and some are not. Just because a truck is modified does not mean it has been abused.


The only mod I made to the Dodge was rebuilding the transmission to the way it should have been made in the first place. The Stock transmission had plastic fins in the converter and very weak parts. The shop installed all the updates, stronger parts including a $1000 Al billet converter. Only made it better. I replaced the fuel lift pump 1 1/2 years ago with a slightly better than stock unit, but it had thrown codes during this failure that it was bad even though it was still pumping strong, just not enough. Stock is not alway best. The trouble comes when you start adding all of the stuff to make it something it's not. Was talking to a guy that worked for years at the Cummins factory and what they do when Dodge calls for a new engine is over build it and then detune it to match power needs. Part of decision is based on what the rest of the power system will handle as well as tuning for a long lasting unit. So there is some room for increasing the power output of the engine but it will result in it wearing out faster.

If I was going to fix this truck I would go with a larger fuel lift pump, and updated injector pump and if I had the money, larger injectors. Also would go to 4" exhaust system.

BTW This truck is for sale. It's got a great Tranny that is built up for 800 Hp engine.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

When I first got my rig, I lusted after an exhaust brake and a different transmission, possibly an AST. The only reason I wanted those two things is because I heard so many times that I needed an exhaust brake and that the Dodge transmission was really poor.

Now that I have over 100k on the rig with most of them towing the 5th-wheel all over the US up and down some pretty steep hills (some 10%), I have found out that I don't need the exhaust brake and I'm still on my original brake pads on the front. The back was replaced about 20k ago I believe, but I'd have to check my records. The transmission is just fine as is and I don't need an exhaust brake. That's not to say that I don't think an exhaust brake would be nice, nor that there aren't much better transmissions out there. But what I have is a good set up. Granted.... A 28FRLS doesn't weigh squat -- I think I'm at about 9,500, but haven't weighed it in a while.

I guess I also wanted a transmission temp guage and I talked to the dealer about that. He told me not to worry, run the rig and enjoy it. He said it wouldn't let me down and the temps would probably just scare me anyway. So, that's what I do. It hasn't let me down.


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

My Transmission failed coming home from Bible Camp the first summer I had the 30' 5th wheel. Took me 3 hours to get home on a normally 1 hour trip. The older style transmissions was built for a truck with a lot lower torque engine and only slightly updated. Bought my truck used. Was from a small construction company so was over abused I'm sure. the only problem that I have with the Dodge transmission in the 2000 is that there is too much difference between 3rd and 4th. traveling 60 mph at 1900 rpm, when it downshifts goes to 2700 rpm. Not good when redline is at 3100.

Got the new slider hitch installed and the brake controller hooked up so I'm ready to go with the Ford. Only Ford I've owned before has been a 1972 and then a 2001 Mustang. Loved the 2001 but traded it off for the 2000 Dodge 3500. So far like the Ford even though I knew I would loose gas mileage. Did figure it out that with the difference in cost of the two fuels, it's not costing me much more to run the gasser as opposed to the Diesel.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

> not costing me much more to run the gasser as opposed to the Diesel


Probably true. The savings from a diesel come over a long period of time. I haven't ever actually done the math. I'm sure a lot of assumptions would have to be made with regard to rising prices and price differences, not to mention individual differences with regard to percent of towing versus running dry. It would have to be an individual assessment. No one could tell you one way or the other because your driving needs are different than anyone elses.


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

I do know it's going to cost me MUCH more to drive than my Town and Country that I just traded off, but I couldn't handle another payment. A different diesel would have been at least another $8000 and to have fixed the Dodge even doing what work I could do would have been around $4000 or above. Hoping to get about $4000 out of the carcass to pay off a couple of credit cards and maybe get a junker to drive back and forth to work. That way when retirement comes in a few years all I'll owe on is the truck and hopefully it last for a few years afterwards.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

You definitly want to go into retirement debt-free. Nothing quite like having everything paid off and a bundle of cash in your pocket. Makes life quite pleasant and worry-free.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

You have a neighbor there in Iowa that makes mosts peoples thinking look flawed.. lol

http://www.farmshow.com/issues/35/02/350201.asp

Carey


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Give me about 3 weeks and MO and IA will be filled in. Still in AZ at the moment, but we're moving in noreasterly fashion toward STL....


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## WWH (May 7, 2010)

Lmbevard said:


> Thanks for the help. I ended up buying a 2003 Ford F250 crewcab with the 5.4 L Auto. Very clean car with the only mod a timer/clock/temp thingy that I'm going to loose really fast. The 2000 Dodge is home and I am looking to sell it as is. It's only a regular cab, the body is rough and it tends to overheat when pulling hard. The best it got is 18 mpg once but usually about 16 unloaded and between 8.5 and 12 mpg with the camper. Took the Ford up to get the hitch installed and according to the trip computer got 13.3 empty going 70 mph against the wind and for just the 50 mile trip back with a side wind got 8.1 with the camper on it. With the differences in the price of fuel vs gas, very close to the same cost towing but with added comfort and space.
> 
> If the Dodge had been at least an extended cab, I would have fixed since it is paid for. Instead it just made sense to trade off my Carvan and stay with one payment.


I am glad things worked out for you and you and your family are happily camping again!


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## WWH (May 7, 2010)

CamperAndy said:


> > no chips and no evidence of K&N air filters
> 
> 
> That is absolutely correct. The engineers at the various car manufacturers know what they are doing and there isn't any conspiracy to give the customer something less than what they paid for. Chipping, K&N's, air shocks, amsoil, etc, etc are just stuff that cost you money.
> ...


This is not 100% true, had he had aftermarket gauges he may have caught the failure before it racked up thousands of dollars in failed parts. Stock is the manufactures best trade off between cost of production and hoped for life of the equipment. I put a programmer, gauges, air filter, intake and water injection on my truck well before the warranty was up. There are a few more mods like, fuel system and transmission parts that will come but they need money that I have yet to allocate. I know the truck will last many years to come and it all relates to how much attention to detail you have, some are comfortable with it and some are not. Just because a truck is modified does not mean it has been abused.
[/quote]

I agree completly that just because a truck has been modified does not mean it has been abused.

However, often modifications shorten the long term life of vehicles if they are not driven and maintained correctly. For example the K&N type air filter can dramatically reduce the life span of the engine due to "Dusting". Meaning these type filters need frequent attention they seldom get and they do not remove the fine dust caught by the stock air filter. I have seen engines in our Ford, GM and Dodge stores that were denied warranty coverage due to the dirt allowed into the engine by these filters. I have seen engines as low as 8,700 miles that have been "chipped" with melted pistons and galled blocks that were denied warranty by the manufacturer.

I also agree that all manufacturers build vehicles that have design issues from time to time and modifications are needed to prolong the life of the vehicle. But in my experience seeing a lot of vehicles daily, the Chips and K&N type air filters as a group will not last as long as a vehicle that has not been modified. Simply because a lot of people that modify them drive them hard and often to the point of failure. Again just because a truck has been modified does not mean it has been abused. However, from my experience the probability of abuse is greater and unless I know the person that owned it I will not buy it.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

My K&N has 400k miles on it. Engine, turbo, ect perfect. I dont believe the dusting hype. I clean the filter every 25k miles. I change my oil every 15-20k miles. Ive used dino oil too.

Guess I and the hundreds of RV Haulers were just lucky.. I know many guys who have approaching 1 million miles on there original K&N filters and there engines too.

Maybe if you run dirt roads everyday you will see a problem. In average conditions I feel a K&N air filter is a vast upgrade over the stock air filter.

Carey


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

I had a K&N on my F-250 and my Explorer. I never a saw a bump in performance or mpg in either (one diesel and one gas). My biggest issue was the hassle to clean it and the hassle of always having the oil on hand. Just much more convenient to use the plain old dry air filter.


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

vdub said:


> Give me about 3 weeks and MO and IA will be filled in. Still in AZ at the moment, but we're moving in noreasterly fashion toward STL....


Glad to have you come up this way. Missouri State Parks are usually really nice and they have been working on the Iowa State parks so they arn't too bad. But it finally happened up here, Diesel fuel is cheaper than gas! I do have a couple of people looking at buying the Dodge as is. I'm not going to give it away. Might have to fix it to save cost of driving.


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## vdub (Jun 19, 2004)

Where are we now? I need to think..... Spring Lake Resort, Huchitson, KS. There is an Outback trailer parked across from us. We will be here for a week, maybe 2. We might go to MO/IA, but they have some flooding going on and they certainly don't need me contributing to their whoes..... We'll see.... Might go to Coachlight RV in Carthage. Several years ago, they read this forum all the time and were great people. Maybe we'll just stop by and see them.....


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

Flooding is over for the most part in Iowa and has now headed to southern Missouri. Karen and I need to start heading out more and camping different places but seems that my vacation time is always being ate up my little things we need to do. One of our favorite places is next to the river up above Muscatine, IA.(see pic below). It was 1/3 covered last week with Mississippi River. BTW Got a letter with pictures of my new truck in it in the mail the other day. Seems I was going 56 mph in a 45 zone and got caught on camera. This happened the 2nd day I had the truck as I was coming back from having my new hitch put in truck. Thankfully they are still trying to get their system going so only got a warning. Still sucks though. I do think I was going that fast at that spot.


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