# Back From The Coast



## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Well We made it home from another great Outback outing and we still love our Outback. Everything worked flawlessly but I did notice that when the batteries are getting low the heater will not come on even though it shows 1/3 left.

We had a very nice family next to us and they are full time RV's. They came from Maine and decided to go full time to be with the family more, they have 3 kids and 2 are autistic. Their 6yr old boy likes to check out every ones rig when they come into camp and he checked out my Tahoe, even climbed into the window, I said hey what are you doing but got no response but His dad was right behind him and explained his condition. I said no problem he is welcome to check us and our rigs out.

Well the next day a guy came in and parked a 5th wheel in a site up the road and the young boy ran over to check out his truck with Dad right behind him. Well he climbed up on the door when the owner grabbed him threw him to the ground then kicked him. I could not believe a human could do something like this to a child. Well the Dad reacted like I would have and knocked him to the ground and grabbed up his child. The father then went to the Ranger and told them what he had done and to check the guy out to see if he was OK. Well the ranger come out, the guy was OK but the ranger said it might be better if he moved to another part of the park and he said OK. The ranger interview all the campers in the area and told the father if the guy presses charges he will be arrested. Well the guy didn't want to press charges but the ranger advised the father that then might be expelled from the park anyway and to be prepared to leave even if it is 3 am.

I could not believe that the ranger would side with the guy who hit the child at all. What is the country coming to, when a grown man can throw a child down, kick him and the father is the one in the hot seat when he reacts by hitting him back. I think the guy who hit the child should have been kicked out of the park at a minimum and the father should get a metal for punching him. I told the ranger this and I think he agreed but could not really say that.


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Unbelievable!!!!

how sad, I'm so sorry that happened to your neighbor and his little boy...Shame on that man that hit and kicked him and even more shame to the ranger that sided with that cruel jerk









I'm sure my husband and myself would have reacted the same way in defending our son.


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## 3LEES (Feb 18, 2006)

skippershe said:


> Unbelievable!!!!
> 
> how sad, I'm so sorry that happened to your neighbor and his little boy...Shame on that man that hit and kicked him and even more shame to the ranger that sided with that cruel jerk
> 
> ...


I might be short in stature, but if ANYONE would do that to my boy, I'd be all over him. I applaude the man for defending his son. I would think that there is not a court in this land that would side with the jerk.

Dan


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## daves700 (Jun 12, 2006)

sad ... sad ... sad ...

You never mess with a child ... now that being said everyone has a limit and kids should act better ... but in this case the adult was just wrong and deserved a ass whipping....

What a bad thing to happen while camping


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

That is a real shame how a grown man can do something like that
If that would have been me I would have knocked him out for sure

Don


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Only hit him once? He's darn lucky. I've got kids that age and I tell ya.... Man, don't even want to go there.

Glad the trip was otherwise a good one.


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## JimBo99 (Apr 25, 2006)

The man who kicked the kid was TOTALLY wrong and out of line and needed something of his kicked!!

That said, the kids need to be taught to stay off the sites of others unless invited. And even when in the company of a parent to stay off the rig etc unless invited in. Some kids are very well behaved, but some have very little respect or common sense. Some get it from their parents, sad to say!


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

JimBo99 said:


> The man who kicked the kid was TOTALLY wrong and out of line and needed something of his kicked!!
> 
> That said, the kids need to be taught to stay off the sites of others unless invited. And even when in the company of a parent to stay off the rig etc unless invited in. Some kids are very well behaved, but some have very little respect or common sense. Some get it from their parents, sad to say!


Well in this kids case he is Autistic and doesn't understand that what he is doing is wrong. His Dad said that he can not communicate like a normal 6 year old and his actions are repetitive. He said he is very happy and doesn't understand things like we do.


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## stapless (Feb 20, 2005)

I'm not siding with the ranger or with the jerk who would hit a kid, and yes, i would want to pound the guy if he laid a hand on my kids. however, 2 wrongs do not make a right. Jesus taught us exactly what to do in a situation such as this. 'turn the other cheek'. Also, If the father hadn't retalliated, HE could have pressed charges against the low-life that shoved his kid. Then the guy would (hopefully) get what he deserved - and it would be permanently on his record, so if he did it again, there is a paper trail. you could even go after him in civil court. the punch may have felt right, and he may be the 'least guilty' of the folks involved, and yes, we want to take his side, but i don't think violence is ever the right answer.

just my 2 cents.

scott


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

I hope he has a conscience and he has an opportunity to think about that incident each day for the rest of his life. That's more punishment than any butt kicking in my book.


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Probably beats his wife and kicks his dog too...


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## MattS (Oct 15, 2006)

Wow- that is just wrong all around.


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## NobleEagle (Jul 8, 2006)

I agree that the dad did the right thing. If it was me? well...lets put it this way....2 problems......there were witnesses....and I would hope the idiot's trailer was insured















I do not think the ranger was 100% correct because in most states it is okay to defend yourself and your family and thats without considering the child's medical condition. The dad that did the defending may still have a case. Afterall, his reaction was not premeditated and was exactly that...a REACTION TO HIS SON BEING ATTACKED. So, he may not get arrested.


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## campntn (Feb 20, 2005)

Interesting situation. We camped beside a couple with an 8 year old autistic child this summer and it was very humbling. Wonderful child and very patient family. Family said that they're just greatful for the child they have and thank God they don't have the problems some people have. God bless em. They NEVER let that little boy out of their site. EVER.
In the situation you described, the man probably could have pressed charges. But when/if a judge reviewed that case, he'd definatly question FIRST the man who assaulted a child, a handicapped child. Charges for assaulting a child are far worse than assaulting a competant adult. 
The man who kicked the child would have been jailed and went on his record as assault of a child.

Now, that being said, I love to camp, regardless. And everyone should have the option to camp in public campgrounds safely and without having their stuff or person harmed. The autistic children might do better to camp a little more secluded until they develope social skills that are more acceptable. My fear as a father would be that something far worse could happen to my son/children if I or someone cannot CONSTANTLY watch guard over them. Taking a developmentally disabled person into somewhere that they could get hurt is very dangerous and assuming. People can be very mean and I'd hate to expose my children unnecessarily to a threat.

Bottom line is that the autistic child had a reason make inapprorpriate actions and someday he may be better. The grown man? He didn't and he has a cold heart.

I"d have cold cocked him down on the gravel myself; any father worth his salt would have. That's human reaction. Don't hit a kid...ANY KID! especially a developmentally disabled child. God help the heart of a man who could do that.
But....as fathers, we must protect our children from bad situations at all costs as well. That's why we were born first.
Mark


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## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

ok first. The guy kicked the kid, he needed to be punched. With that said if i pulled up into a camp ground and some kid i didnt know came running up , climbed up on my truck and throug the window. I would freak out! First i dont know what is happening. I just know some kid didnt respect my 46k tv and is now inside with my gun! That father would have not received kind words. If you know this is an issue. He should have walked over holding the kid and explained the situation. In that case I would have secured the tv better and would have not had a problem with it at all. I think both were wrong!


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Wow, to say someone with an autistic child should camp in a more secluded place. I did not realize that was possible. To think people who have a problem with dogs at a campground are told to 







up.

Bottom line. The guy had no idea of the childs 'condition' and that should not have mattered. He knocked down and hit someone elses child. He is the one who should be secluded. If the father had not hit back, would the Ranger have thrown the other guy out? He should have been arrested. All he would have had to do was sternly asked the child to get off his truck, by that time the parents would have made it over to probably apologize. You cannot tell me he felt threatened by a child. There is NO excuse for this moron.

John


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## campntn (Feb 20, 2005)

I agree completely. I maybe more sensitive here because of my feelings about children/people who are handicapped. They need our special attention and protection. I also know that if I had a child who has a learning disability and has the potential for getting hurt, I'd do everything, and I mean everything that I could to keep him out of a situation that he doesn't know what to do and may get hurt. 
I would never be able to live with myself knowing that I, I, had let him be somewhere that everyone was not aware of his disability and he got hurt. That's my fault; ESPECIALLY if I know that he has done the same thing in the past to another camper/rv/tv. The parents know that he is attracted to such. 
Those are my thoughts.
But hey, that's why we're all friends here, to bounce insights off of each other.








Mark


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## countrygirl (Apr 9, 2006)

sleecjr said:


> ok first. The guy kicked the kid, he needed to be punched. With that said if i pulled up into a camp ground and some kid i didnt know came running up , climbed up on my truck and throug the window. I would freak out! First i dont know what is happening. I just know some kid didnt respect my 46k tv and is now inside with my gun! That father would have not received kind words. If you know this is an issue. He should have walked over holding the kid and explained the situation. In that case I would have secured the tv better and would have not had a problem with it at all. I think both were wrong!


I agree with Sleecjr completely. I also want to say that _no parent _ should let their child run wild...and in a case like this the parent should have walked over holding the child's hand and asked if it would be okay for the child to see the vehicle/rig.

At work we have over 560 children in our Religious Education Program...and quite a few have learning disabilites...and extra care must be taken with them...to insure their safety.

Oh yeah....I would have decked the man for kicking a child...mine or anyone elses!


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

I m sorry but he was not running wild. The story states the father was right behind him. You can t put a leash on him


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## willie226 (Apr 4, 2006)

I agree completely.

That was wrong all the way around no one should kick or hit a kid. 
I hope he does't have any kids and if he does I hope he doesn't kick them

willie


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

Stapless, you make a valid point, however I prefer to quote Matthew 18:6 - ". . . but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him that a huge millstone should be hung around his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depths of the sea."

God takes no pleasure in anyone harming a child. In this case you might as well just call me Mr. Millstone because I would have beaten the guy sensless and then I would have made sure he was arrested. There is no way in this world that a guy throws a 6 year-old to the ground and then kicks him that he doesn't go to jail. If I witnessed it I would have called the police (after I beat the daylights out of him) and made sure of it. If the guy kicked the kid, there aint a jury or judge in the world that would see the guy's black and blue body as anything other than me defending a SIX YEAR-OLD KID from being assaulted. Remember that folks - the guy threw down and kicked a six year-old kid. A six year-old!!!

The kid's autism and/or his actions can just be taken out of the picture. The kid IS SIX-YEARS OLD!!! Have I made my point? Anyone who throws and then kicks a six year-old kid while he's on the ground (doesn't matter if he's autistic) should get beaten and then go to jail for a very long time. You didn't say what type of ranger this was. Is he just a private campground ranger or a state park ranger? If he is a state ranger then he is a law enforcement officer and should have had that guy in handcuffs for assault of a child. End of story. Obviously the ranger (what ever kind he is) is an idiot. The state police should have been called and the guy should have been arrested.


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

I would agree that the kids Father is at fault for not controlling his child. He bears both the burden and the responsibility of controlling him due to his special condition. However, accidents do happen, and when they do adults need to act like adults. Just like Verstelle did.

Two words about hitting the guy though. Self Defense. A 6 year old under attack by an adult can not reasonably be expected to defend himself. I see nothing wrong with his Dad providing that defense.

Yes there are times to turn the other cheek. And there are also times to kill sombody as well. And still many variations in between these extremes.


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## Mgonzo2u (Aug 3, 2004)

sleecjr said:


> ok first. The guy kicked the kid, he needed to be punched. With that said if i pulled up into a camp ground and some kid i didnt know came running up , climbed up on my truck and throug the window. I would freak out! First i dont know what is happening. I just know some kid didnt respect my 46k tv and is now inside with my gun! That father would have not received kind words. If you know this is an issue. He should have walked over holding the kid and explained the situation. In that case I would have secured the tv better and would have not had a problem with it at all. I think both were wrong!


Exactly.

There was a better way to handle the child by the camper who lost his temper with him BUT none of this would have occurred had the childs father, who knows his kids penchant for invading others privacy, kept a tighter reign on him.

Excusing his childs known behavior because of a disorder is not acceptable reasoning for letting it continually happen (as stated in the original story).

*Like sleecjr stated, what if there is some sort of lethal weapon on the seat some day when the kid helps himself to someones cab and the owner of the rig isn't around to see it or the childs parent isn't "right behind him"? *

At what point does the autistic kids dad deem it time to go pull his kid out of or off of another persons vehicle? The situation should never get to the point where the autistic kid (or any kid for that matter) gets near or touches another persons private property without specific permission to do so. The kid doesn't know this but his parents have to absolutely be aware of such basic public principles.

<shakes head at the quickly fading common sense of people these days>

p.s.

I would be interested to know specifically how forcefully the guy "kicked him". If it was a soft boot to the kids bottom so as to indicate "don't do that", I could see myself doing something like that in such a bizarre scenario. The story sort of paints a gray picture of the guy giving the kid a painful boot which I have to seriously doubt is what occurred based on the fact the kids father was "right" there. Common sense deduction if you will.


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

This is pretty much amazing me. Let's change the parameters a little.

Let's say MY six-year-old son (no learning disabilities, just your every-day six-year-old boy) and I are camping. In pulls a really nice fifth wheel with a really nice truck pulling it - a beautiful rig all around. Let's say my son gets all excited about this beautiful rig and runs up to it and climbs on the running board and hangs in the window to get a good look at it. The 40-year-old driver takes my son, throws him to the ground and then kicks him.

*Are you seriously going to tell me that it's partly my fault? *

*That piece of garbage adult threw a six-year-old boy to the ground and kicked him. * I don't care what the circumstances! I don't care if the father *TOLD* the boy to jump on the guy's rig and climb in the window. THE GUY THREW A SIX-YEAR-OLD TO THE GROUND AND KICKED HIM!!!! It aint NOBODY'S fault except the piece of garbage who assaulted the kid.!!!

AND the fact that the child is autistic is really grounds for charges and a lawsuit against the guy who assaulted him, the ranger for his inaction, and the campground for their negligence.

Perhaps the father could have intervened earlier and kept the kid from jumping on the rig, but you can't put a child on a leash; you can't tie a child up; you can't anticipate every situation; you can't prevent every unwanted behavior. My wife's been teaching special ed for thirty years. Any father who takes his autistic son camping IS AN INVOLVED FATHER! He's not letting his son run amok. But he can't control his every movement. To say that the father is partly responsible is excusing this adult's ASSAULT OF A CHILD.

The only person at fault here is the person who assaulted a child and he should have been arrested.

On Edit: Someone PM'd me and made a good point - He said "I really wonder how this conversation would go if the guy kicked a harmless little dog for running over there." Seriously folks. THE GUY KICKED A KID and some are saying "Oh maybe it was just a harmless little boot in the rear end." I REALLY DO wonder how this thread would progress if the guy kicked a dog. Seems some are willing to excuse him for kicking an autistic child "whose father should have had a tighter reign on him."

I'm afraid I'm going to have to get out of this thread because my blood is starting to boil.


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## Mgonzo2u (Aug 3, 2004)

Moosegut said:


> This is pretty much amazing me. Let's change the parameters a little.
> 
> Let's say MY six-year-old son (no learning disabilities, just your every-day six-year-old boy) and I are camping. In pulls a really nice fifth wheel with a really nice truck pulling it - a beautiful rig all around. Let's say my son gets all excited about this beautiful rig and runs up to it and climbs on the running board and hangs in the window to get a good look at it. The 40-year-old driver takes my son, throws him to the ground and then kicks him.
> 
> ...


But he wasn't was he? Why's that? Don't you wonder....

Forget a stupid little dog (or any pet for that matter) or some other strawman "what if" story, we're talking about an actual noted case here.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

An actual noted case as you say.

Which also does not contain a what if there was a gun on the seat.

Now if I understand it correctly, if it was a light 'boot' , it was acceptable.

I cannot believe this 'man' can be defended on any level for hitting someone elses 6 yr old.

I have never known any child, autistic or otherwise be perfect in behavior in a public place. I guess the only way to know is to walk in anothers shoes and see how you would react.

John


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

Moosegut said:


> This is pretty much amazing me. Let's change the parameters a little.
> 
> Let's say MY six-year-old son (no learning disabilities, just your every-day six-year-old boy) and I are camping. In pulls a really nice fifth wheel with a really nice truck pulling it - a beautiful rig all around. Let's say my son gets all excited about this beautiful rig and runs up to it and climbs on the running board and hangs in the window to get a good look at it. The 40-year-old driver takes my son, throws him to the ground and then kicks him.
> 
> ...


Moosegut, you did a great job with this response AND with controlling your temper. I don't know that I could have done it that well. You're a great guy!!








Now, onto my soapbox!

I got notified of this thread by someone who's stayed out of it, because, like her, I have a "special needs" child, as you all know. And, as you all know, his name is Jimmy. He has poor impulse control and behavior problems. I'm alone with him, SO, I can identify with the couple with 3 kids, two of them with autism. Also, we parents with special needs kids are getting a feeling of what to expect, as far as how you would accept our children, if it weren't for the fact we're fellow members on this forum.

First off, these kids are, generally, not accepted by society, and they and their parents have to live with that stigma. It's an uphill battle from DAY ONE of their life, to protect them, to nurture them, to get them the help they need to make progress, and a HUGE financial burden. They are in their "own little world" and see no danger in anything. The parents have constant stress and do the best that they can with these kids. If dad's lagging a step or two behind, let's face it, he's probably worn to a frazzle, and my hat's off to him AND their mom!! Until you've walked in their shoes, you have NO RIGHT to criticize them. You have NO idea what effort it takes, and how they love their kids, unconditionally.

Secondly, ANY "man" who throws a child to the ground (hey, that's assault, right there) and then KICKS HIM?? That's not a real man. That's a big person with a little fuse. Yes, we all love our TTs and TVs, and yes, they're expensive. However, that's what insurance is for, and they're material things that can be replaced. My oldest son did MAJOR damage to his first truck in a one-vehicle accident, down a 20' culvert. When I arrived on the scene, I almost knocked down an officer who wouldn't let me through. Was it to see what damage the truck sustained??? NO!! It was to hold my son (then 16) and make sure he was okay. My son kept asking when I was going to yell at him. I never did, and it was never thrown up to him. I took him to the doctor for a good once-over to make sure he was okay, and the truck was later repaired.

Some of you are trying to put "what ifs" into this.........there's no need for that!! There were no "what ifs" involved. Facts are facts.........they boy climbed up onto the truck door and the "man" threw him onto the ground and kicked him. He should have been arrested, no ifs, ands or buts about it. Had the father called the local Sheriff's Dept., that's exactly what would and should have happened. The "ranger" should have lost his job for not enforcing the law. It's also called child abuse, BTW, and I'm with others, that he probably treats his wife and children like that, too.

Thirdly, the dad responded as any parent would have. Believe me, if that had happened to my child, I would have done my best to protect my child. It's SUPPOSED to be a maternal/paternals instinct, people!!

LAST, BUT CERTAINLY NOT LEAST, THINK ABOUT THIS LONG AND HARD!!!............What if this had happened to one of our member's kid? How many rangers would it take to pull all of us OBers off that arrogant piece of trash "man" that threw THAT kid (autistic or not) to the ground and then kicked him?? I have a feeling that it would have taken a whole calvary to pull us all off what was left of him. Of course, we would have probably, as a group, handled it a little different, with a couple of the guys holding him until we were SURE he was arrested and out of the park. HE was the one that should have left, not a 6 yr. old child's family, because HE presented a danger to others because of his violent nature!!
Darlene


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

I've missed this thread so far but have to join in. I won't mention names but we have dedicated members on Outbackers with an autistic child. I think it's absolutely wonderful that they and others introduce camping and the outdoors to their children. It's natural for any six year old to be curious and get excited to see other trucks and campers. I'm no expert but possibly a child with autism cannot process certain social etiquette skills that other kids may have. Certainly, a lot of kids don't always do what's right.

To hit a kid, any kid, is totally unacceptable. The guy should be arrested -- period. I would do the same thing if my kids were hit. If the guy didn't like what the child did, he needs to address it with the boy's parent.

We've all probably had a problem in our lives with someone else's kid whether camping or at home. I do not discipline other peoples kids. The matter must be addressed with the parents of that child.


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Moosegut said:


> *Are you seriously going to tell me that it's partly my fault? *


Well....yes.

Since this appears to be directed at my comments above I'll post a response.

First, just chill. I'm with ya on this.







I have kids that age and feel the same anger you do. (perhpas re-read my first response).

However, a parent of a special child like this has to be responsible for his child's actions knowing that he is compulsive (irrational, uncontrollable). And that compulsion can lead to danger, which in this instance is exactly what happened.

When your negligence allows the child to be exposed to danger, by definition you are also partly responsible. Please don't misunderstand me, I would have pounded the guy boneless. But afterwards felt guilt that I had allowed my Son to be in that situation.

Kinda like the parent that falls asleep on the couch and a little one gets out and is harmed or abducted. Yeah, it's just a little kid and nobody should even think of such a terrible thing. But where was the parent??

My apologies to all if this debate has turned contentious, and any part I have added to make it so. I know we're way off topic, but sometimes thats how some of the most interesting conversations start.


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## wolfwood (Sep 19, 2005)

Okay...can't stay quiet any longer....

The fact that a child (of any age or ability level) was involved is reprehensible...

but why is it even remotely acceptable - to any degree and in any way, shape or form - that this guy *HIT * anyone or anything anywhere at any time ????

[and, as an 8 yr veteran director of a domestic violence council, I can all but assure you that this guy's violence towards this child was not an isolated event and, in fact, likely had nothing  to do with this  child coming near the guy's TV. That was the trigger, NOT the cause.)

-----------------------------

As we (coincidentally ????) wrap-up National Anti-Violence Month, how aware are you of just how many otherwise "perfectly normal" violent individuals there are within our society? (That's a rhetorical question, my friends. But I'll bet most of you would be astonished to learn that the friendly neighbor guy down the street who's always there to help and seems to be so self-confident...also emotionally and/or physically abuses his wife and/or kids and/or pet. I sincerely hope that you are each - every one of you - as repulsed by the notion as I still am even after so many years of having had those abusers turn their anger and lack of self-esteem on me!)

Violence is violence - levels, degrees, extents, stages, classification of victims, etc. need to *not  * be acceptable - EVER!

OK. Stepping away from the podium now ....


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

Jim,
I have to disagree with you. Generally, autistic children do not like/allow touching, until they've learned to accept it. This father was in no way negligent. He was respecting his autistic child's space, by not holding his hand. 
If your child had been a step or two ahead of you and done the same thing, would you consider yourself negligent??? I don't think so......you would have considered yourself an attentive parent, JUST like this child's dad was!!!
Darlene


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

Wolfwood,
You hit the nail on the head. Why does my "special needs" child have "special needs"?? Because while I WORKED and left him in his biological father's care, unbeknownst to me, he was physically/verbally abusing him and neglecting him, from the time he was an INFANT, until he slipped up and hit him with a CLOSED FIST in the back, knocking the wind out of him, while I was holding him!! Our child was under 3 yrs. old!! My oldest son, from a previous marriage, was threated with DEATH if he told what was going on!!
This "man" was "much a man"....he was 5'9", 190# and ALL muscle!! When I tried to protect my baby, this "man" drew his fist back to hit me. I told him to go ahead, because if I didn't kill him, my dad would. He put down his fist. I left the house and called the law. Me and my two sons went to a "safe house" until the law could remove him from MY house!!
The result? My son has Reactive Attachment Disorder. What does this basically mean?? He, unknowingly, blames ME for not protecting him, when I wasn't even there, and he blames ME for removing his dad from the family. End result?? He makes MY life a living Hell, for reasons he doesn't even understand. I ended up being the object of his rage. You ought to look it up. It makes for pretty interesting reading.
This was my second marriage. Both marriages were emotionally abusive. I have a hard time "trusting", in a relationship, and my kids suffered tremendously.
You people wonder why I am not married/seeing someone?? Now you know. 
Darlene


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

If Dad is literally running right behind him then I would agree. If Dad responds after the fact or is far enough behind that the boy gets hurt.....well. This can quickly degrade into many shades of gray.

Darlene, I have the utmost respect for the exceptional parenting and sacrifice needed to raise such a special child. Yourself included. It requires parenting that is way above and beyond what most of us will ever experience.

My point is that with such an exceptional child comes exceptional responsibilites.

Again I apologize if I have offended you or anyone else reading this topic.


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## campntn (Feb 20, 2005)

California Jim said:


> My point is that with such an exceptional child comes exceptional responsibilites.


Yes, Jim, those are my thoughts and feelings as well. Only the poster of this scenario knows what the true situation is. Only the parents know what it's like to live daily with autism.
What I'd "LIKE" to say is this, outsider looking in:
1-Bring charges to the man who abused a child, special needs or no.
2-have social services visit with this family who is full-timing and having 3 children, 2 of whom are apparantly autistic, in a daily situation where it puts the children at risk. Special (exceptional) risks such as this childs apparant affinity for looking into other people's towvehicles and such. 
That is simply too much for that child to bear every day of his life. 
It's not safe nor fair to the child to be tempted like that. 
The children's needs and safety come first: regardless.

What I will say is this:
We're all very protective of our children here and we should be commended as such. Let's just learn from this situation what we can and all go back to the fire knowing that we love our children.

God's grace,
Mark


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## Mgonzo2u (Aug 3, 2004)

California Jim said:


> An actual noted case as you say.
> 
> Which also does not contain a what if there was a gun on the seat.
> 
> ...


John,

True, the "gun" was not part of the orginal story but another poster brought up the possibility of dangerous items being in the cab (he apparently carries a gun sometimes) being a very feasible scenario at any point in time. We were not told of any dangerous items in the cab in this story, just like it didn't involve some dog or "my kid". There doesn't even need to be an item of danger in the cab, if this particular child likes to climb into peoples cabs, whose to say the kid doesn't kick the vehicle out of park, sending some strangers rig careening into other vehicles or worse yet, other people?

Yes, thats another 'what if' scenario but based on the actual story, something like this could very well have happened regardless how hard some try to clear the child/father from wrongdoing.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

[quote .

Forget a stupid little dog (or any pet for that matter) or some other strawman "what if" story, we're talking about an actual noted case here.
[/quote]

I was trying to make the point that you cannot have it both ways. You state to forget the 'what ifs' and yet you bring them up.

We won t go into the stupidity of a loaded gun on the seat.

No more from me before I have to warn myself

John


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## Mgonzo2u (Aug 3, 2004)

lol

Fair enough


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

Quote

Well the next day a guy came in and parked a 5th wheel in a site up the road and the young boy ran over to check out his truck with Dad right behind him. Well he climbed up on the door when the owner grabbed him threw him to the ground then kicked him.

End Quote

*"Well he climbed up on the door when the owner grabbed him threw him to the ground then kicked him."*

Hmmmmmm . . . . the original post stated the above. Quite frankly, I don't care if the kid had jumped on the hood and started jumping up and down and denting the truck. The original post stated the above and the guy "grabbed him threw him to the ground then kicked him."

The original post did not say "The young boy was in a dangerous situation his father should have kept him out of." It did not say these were parents who paid no attention to their children and let them do what they want. In fact, it DID say "We had a very nice family next to us and they are full time RV's. They came from Maine and decided to go full time to be with the family more, they have 3 kids and 2 are autistic."

They were a nice family with parents who wanted to spend more time with their children. Now they are being castigated and we want to "have social services visit with this family who is full-timing and having 3 children, 2 of whom are apparantly autistic, in a daily situation where it puts the children at risk."

All I can say is WOW! I'm actually dumbfounded.


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

Well I hope I didn't upset to many people with this story, and can understand every ones feelings. I told this story to several of my co-workers and got a lot of mixed feelings as well. Having been there and having meet the family I'm having a hard time with it. The family is dealing with 3 children 1 normal and 2 Artistic. There is a big area for the kids to play and sitting in camp I had time to watch them, having fun. It is only when something new shows up that the 6yr old boy gets distracted and has to go over to see it. The father or mother is always sitting there watching them, and in most cases they get there in time to stop him. They say "no knock" "no knock" and the boy seem to under stand but still has a strong drive to check things out.

My heart really goes out to this child, and it breaks my heart that someone can do anything to harm a child. I view all children as gifts from God and it is our responsible for their well being, all of us not just the parents. In my book if you purpously harm a child all bets are off and deserve anything that comes back.

I just don't have any processions that are worth more than a child. Plus I think camping is the best place for a family. The things I remember the most growing up is the camping trips we took as a family. The next beat thing about camping with your family is sharing it with other familys. Nothing like a big group aroung the camp fire.


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## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

ok. first. There are a lot of riled up people on here. But I didnt see one post that said the guy hitting the kid was the right thing. Every one agrees it was wrong. whats all the fuss









And second just to clarify. *I never said I keep a loaded gun on the seat.* My reply started with an *If I* It was just given as a different point of view. As far as the gun in my point of view scenario. Let see, In my reply it stated he climbed through the window. If he did that would the glove compartment be off limits? I do keep a gun there.

And third. Whats a man gotta do to get some spell checker around here









Just to be clear. I am in no way upset or riled up. We live in America. Here everyone is entitled to their opinion. No one should be mad at another person because there opinion is different from their own. And some times even though we hate to admit it, their opinion makes more sense.


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## 3LEES (Feb 18, 2006)

Very interesting reading. And one point has been driven home solidly...

Outbackers are very family oriented. And we WILL defend our family whatever the cost!

Dan


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

> And third. Whats a man gotta do to get some spell checker around here


I installed the Google tool bar and it has a spell checker that works real nice on any document.


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## RizFam (Feb 25, 2006)

sleecjr said:


> whats all the fuss


The ignorance & lack of sensitivity on this thread.

I think most people wonder why any child would be afflicted with illness and disability. My personal belief is that the world needs to be filled with different types of people with varying abilities. This diversity builds understanding, compassion and acceptance, making us all better human beings.


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## countrygirl (Apr 9, 2006)

tdvffjohn said:


> I agree completely.
> 
> That was wrong all the way around no one should kick or hit a kid.
> I hope he does't have any kids and if he does I hope he doesn't kick them
> ...


Amen Willie!


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## countrygirl (Apr 9, 2006)

countrygirl said:


> I agree completely.
> 
> That was wrong all the way around no one should kick or hit a kid.
> I hope he does't have any kids and if he does I hope he doesn't kick them
> ...


Amen Willie!
[/quote]

We ALL...have strengths and weaknesses...we all have abilities and disabilities or challanges.


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## JimBo99 (Apr 25, 2006)

countrygirl said:


> I agree....you can't and should not put a leash on a human!


When my son was very little, we often went camping in primative areas. One of our favorites was on the Blackwater River in Florida. I lost sight of my son for a few miniutes, next thing I knew he was crawling out on a log over the river! I put him on a long leash for his protection and my sanity. Also, my wife used the leash to keep him near when shopping. If she didn't he would just run off. A leash can be a proctective device and brings no harm to a child.

Two more things: Is the man who kicked the child to called a "piece of garbage"? What would Jesus do? and secondly, what is it with all the labels kids are saddled with these days? I need a new dictionary!!


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

Jim,
My child's "saddled" with about SIX of these diagnoses. You don't need a new dictionary....you have one at your very hands, if you're reading this. You can use "google.com" to look up any and all of these diagnoses, and I suggest you do. It might give you a little insight into what parents of these kids have to deal with. BTW, I found out, yesterday, that my son with RAD (age 12 1/2) is past the age that intense therapy will probably help him........seems under 12 is the "window of oppportunity".
What would Jesus do? I don't know, and neither do you, but Jesus said to suffer not unto the little children. I don't think Jesus would let a child be thrown to the ground and kicked. Of course, I don't have a pocket full or miracles like Jesus did. If I did, do you think that my son and Tami's son would be suffering with the problems they suffer with? Do you think I'd be disabled, and unable to work as an RN to help people, which I've wanted to do all my life?
Myself, I would like to cure the world, if I had the power to. I'd like to cure people of all illnesses (physical and mental), but I'd also like to cure them of "mean spirits", as well, such as the man who hurt the child. But, I don't have the ability to, so all I can do is pray........yes, I prayed for the man who was cruel to the child, too, as I have prayed for both of my ex-husbands from the time I divorced them until their death. BTW, it was that God would soften their hearts and lead them to get the help they needed, not for them to die.
In retrospect, since it seems the dad knew the child might try to enter the man's truck, as he had Verstelle's, maybe he SHOULD have been a step or two ahead, but maybe he was too tired.......who knows? But how in the world could he know that some "man" would treat his child as if he were a dog?? 
I think it's time to let this thread rest, myself, unless you have supportive comments for Tami (Riz Fam), who sat by and cried almost all day, yesterday, because her son, John Luke, has autism. Does her name ring a bell?? She's the one that's always so happy and cheerful on here, and supportive of all the other members!! She sat, in silence, reading this yesterday, but let me know about it. She had to compose herself before she could make the short response she did. 
So, I'm asking all members to PLEASE not post anything else negative here, as I'm sure she's still following it, and I do not wish her to shed one more tear!!
Darlene


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## Canadiansue (Jun 23, 2006)

Just want to wade in here...been reading all the comments. We all agree that that man should not have laid a hand on that child.

I just want to say how much I admire that family. If they are full timing...that means that they have sacrificed a lot for the sake of their family. they have put their priorities in a very different order than most people. Looking after 2 autistic children full-time...no breaks, no respite...by choice...my hat is off to them!!!


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

Canadiansue said:


> Just want to wade in here...been reading all the comments. We all agree that that man should not have laid a hand on that child.
> 
> I just want to say how much I admire that family. If they are full timing...that means that they have sacrificed a lot for the sake of their family. they have put their priorities in a very different order than most people. Looking after 2 autistic children full-time...no breaks, no respite...by choice...my hat is off to them!!!


Amen!


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

It sounds like a lot of mistakes were made all around on this one.

If there is one good thing to come of it though, it is that this thread has given us all a chance to hypothetically ask our own 'what if?' questions, as they pertain to our own situations and families. Hopefully as a result, if any of us are ever faced with a similar situation we will be better prepared, and in a better position to deal with the situation rationally and reasonably.

Thanks for sharing this, Bill.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## N7OQ (Jun 10, 2006)

I think it is time to let this post die out. I want to say I'm sorry that it caused such a turmoil and it was not my intention to cause anyone any pain. The incident affected me so much I wanted to share it with everyone here.

I really admire those who have special needs children and I know the sacrifices they make, my Brother/sister in-law has a special need child and I see the energy they put out to meet that child's need and the stress they live with every day. This is a life long endeavor with no end in sight. I think God has a special place in Heaven for those who take care of his special children.


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## Lady Di (Oct 28, 2005)

Having a daughter who, while not autistic, does have special needs, I know first hand that our children can behave inapropriately. Funny thing though, I've noticed that 'normal' kids behave inappropriately.

I become Mama Bear when I perceive a threat to my daughter. I would imagine parents of 'normal' kids react the same way.

That guy was NOT a man. Being a woman, I would likely have grabbed my kid, and immediately reported the guy to anyone and everyone who could do something, CG security, State Police, Governor, President.
I know the last two were ridiculous. The guy was WRONG to touch the child.

Personally, I wonder what kind of security would back up someone who would abuse a child. At the very least I would make sure Everyone and anyone I know would have the CG name, so they could cross it off their approved list. Would I want to stay somewhere like that? NO NO NO!

I am a Christian, I would do my best to make the guy pay somehow.

'Nought said. I'm going to bed. If I'm back on this evening you will know I'm riled. I am anyhow.


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

sleecjr said:


> ok first. The guy kicked the kid, he needed to be punched. With that said if i pulled up into a camp ground and some kid i didnt know came running up , climbed up on my truck and throug the window. I would freak out! First i dont know what is happening. I just know some kid didnt respect my 46k tv and is now inside with my gun! That father would have not received kind words. If you know this is an issue. He should have walked over holding the kid and explained the situation. In that case I would have secured the tv better and would have not had a problem with it at all. I think both were wrong!


I love kids, bit have to agree that the father should have stopped his child from trespassing on and in other people TV or RV. But of course, the jerk was wrong and over reacted to the situation. Personally I would have called the sheriff and had him arrested for assulting the child. It was one thing to grab a 6 year old and pull him out of the truck but quite another thing to throw him down and kick him.


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## stapless (Feb 20, 2005)

Moosegut said:


> Okay...can't stay quiet any longer....
> 
> The fact that a child (of any age or ability level) was involved is reprehensible...
> 
> ...


Well said!! i couldn't agree more.

scott


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

Wow.

I've read every post in this thread. I am reminded why every morning we thank God for our two kids, our remaining parents, and each other.

My philosophy is obviously not that of a philosophy major. In total: As long as I did what I honestly thought was right at the time, I will not grieve over the decision, for no one can do more.

I would not dream of even recommending this to anyone else; one's personal ways are just that. Being human, though, I do occasionally look at someone else's situation in that light. I wonder, can either adult male in this tale be said to have done what was right? Regardless of the child's affliction, it is the duty of the parent to control the child. That is critical to the protection of that child. "but you can't put a child on a leash..." Yes, you can. My brother and I spent many hours hooked up like a pair of beagles as kids; it was done because that was an effective way of keeping us out of harm's way under certain conditions.

Certainly, the adult who threw a child to the ground and kicked him, didn't do the right thing, and deserves harsher than he got.

I try always to keep in mind that nearly every person I encounter is fighting at least one battle of some kind. I have become an expert at "letting it pass", not making a federal case of every slight or little transgression. It keeps my blood pressure reasonable, and maybe helps someone else by not escalating an inconsequential incident.

I sleep well.

Happy geezers do that.

Sluggo


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## JimBo99 (Apr 25, 2006)

In what I said earlier I didn't mean to be insensitive. I love kids and have taught then in church and taken them to camp, sometimes for a week at a time. I'm truly sorry that some have special needs kids that require 24/7 special attention. And as I also stated the guy that kicked the kid was TOTALLY out of line.

Please indulge my next comment, understanding that I would NEVER defend such behavior of that man toward the child.

My business is very demanding and I work hard at home. My mother-in-law is languishing in a local nursing home, which is especiall hard on my wife. We have a family member who lives with us because she truly needs our help. My mother is widowed. And my wife volunteers in the community in many ways. Personally, stress causes me bouts of depression and sometimes I find myself running on empty emotionally. My get away is camping. I do that to recharge my batteries. I love to meet other campers and have a good time. But I love it to be peaceful and relaxing. I don't want to deal with my own problems while camping let alone those of others. That may sound selfish, but that is my need and desire. If I'm camped next to disruptive people I don't make a scene or complain (most of the time), I just ask to be moved or move on. I don't need the stress. I hope this is helpful.

Jim


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## RizFam (Feb 25, 2006)

> I've read every post in this thread. I am reminded why every morning we thank God for our two kids, our remaining parents, and each other.


AMEN!


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## Moosegut (Sep 24, 2005)

stapless said:


> god didn't put us here to be HIS judge, jury, and executioner. HE will handle it in HIS own way.
> 
> scott


The Old Testament is rife with examples where God used individuals and nations to be just that. Christ also said take up your sword. He showed us there are times to turn the other cheek and He showed us there are times to make a whip and beat the money changers out of the temple. In the upper room He let His disciples know they were going into a dangerous world. He told them to take money, take garments, take a sword - all things He previously told them they could do without. I never advocate violence, but I also protect the helpless and innocent - with a sword, if necessary.

Yes, turn the other cheek when my enemy attacks ME. But defending a six-year-old is a different matter.


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

> Violence is violence - levels, degrees, extents, stages, classification of victims, etc. need to not be acceptable - EVER!


I agree. It could have been handled another way.

Mark


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## stapless (Feb 20, 2005)

Moosegut said:


> god didn't put us here to be HIS judge, jury, and executioner. HE will handle it in HIS own way.
> 
> scott


The Old Testament is rife with examples where God used individuals and nations to be just that. Christ also said take up your sword. He showed us there are times to turn the other cheek and He showed us there are times to make a whip and beat the money changers out of the temple. In the upper room He let His disciples know they were going into a dangerous world. He told them to take money, take garments, take a sword - all things He previously told them they could do without. I never advocate violence, but I also protect the helpless and innocent - with a sword, if necessary.

Yes, turn the other cheek when my enemy attacks ME. But defending a six-year-old is a different matter.
[/quote]

let he with NO SIN cast the first stone. none of us are perfect. lets not pretend GOD gave us some right to perpetrate violence, no matter how noble the cause.

scott


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