# Keeping Pipes From Freezing During Winter



## Oldschool (Mar 15, 2006)

We have a 2005 28 BHS that we use up at the local ski area on the weekends.
We had the pipes freeze on us 3 times now and the second time the pump actually cracked and had to be replaced.
Last weekend, all 3 Outbacks in the lot froze up. The low temp was 16 that night.
I had already lined all the water lines with grey foam pipe insulation and sprayed foam insulation around the fittings after the second time. And, I opened up the panel into the interior on The driver's side of the bed to expose the pump to the ambient interior heat. Yet, it still froze up underneath.

My local dealer has been of absolutely no help (stated that it's not built for that purpose) though the national CS rep at keystone was nice enough to direct me here.

Needless to say, we're a little upset about it all since the sales folks and the brochure really tout the enclosed "radiant heated" underbelly as a positive.

Ideas? Thank you in advance.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

I think the brochure says something about extending the camping season. The Outback is not a 4 season camper, it is more of a 3 season camper.

You can still camp in the really cold but you will need shore power and you will need heat trace on the pipes and tanks.

As it is you can not expect it to survive if it does not spend some time each day above freezing. I have camped in cold weather down to upper teens and have not broke anything yet.


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## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

Exactly, this is a common mis-conception with Outbacks. Unless you have true heated tanks (meaning heat strips on them and insulated lines), Winter camping is at your own risk.

Randy


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## Morrowmd (Feb 22, 2005)

Old School,

Welcome to our forum!

Many of us camp during cold months and I would say most that do (including myself) do not put water in the system. We bring jugs of water for drinking, washing up, etc.

When we bought our OB in 2002 the rep said it had a heated belly. This is true only when the furnace is running and then it is only radiant heat. When temps get cold enough (like 16*) things will freeze up.

If you really want to use the plumbing during the winter months you should wrap all the pipes with heat tape. As long as you have electricity the heat tape will keep the pipes warm.

The only other option is move down south.


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## stapless (Feb 20, 2005)

Welcome to the forum!!

our rep also told us '3 season' and 'extended season' camping. sorry your's gave you such misinformation







. I live in Minnesota, and we store ours for the winter until daytime temps are above freezing







. With that, she will tolerate temps into the teens overnight without freezing.

scott


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

action *Welcome to Outbackers, Oldschool!* action 
I'm glad you found us!










It looks like the others have covered the facts of the matter, so I will not repeat them, other than to say I agree 100% with what has been said.

I am intriqued, however, by your comment about 'all three Outbacks in the lot'. Bet you did not know you have been having Outback rallies all along!







What part of the world are all you guys in? We may have some members close to you that could shed some regional light on your situation.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Oldschool (Mar 15, 2006)

We live outside Seattle and spend the winter weekends at Alpental ski area where I have been teaching skiing and snowboarding since '84.
We've had various RVs and campers since '89 and have never frozen up. So, I am a little bit aback at the "it will freeze" responses. We run the heat all night at 63 (the lowest setting) and the lines have been wrapped and such. Yes, heat tape may be the only answer but perhaps redirecting some of that forced air heat into the basement will work?

I have no intent in drying out the system. I've never had to do it before, why should that be the answer for a new rig? Yes, I know that in the past most systems were above the floor and thus, easily warmed.

My next step is to climb under there and heat tape the lines with a switch that I can click on before we go to bed in the evening. But, I'd rather not. How much would that much pull on the batteries?

We actually use the rig more in the winter than we do in the summer. It is one of the reasons why we bought this particular model. I thought that perhaps there would be several others here who would have already experienced this and have some good responses.

Disappointed? Yes. As well as are the other 2. One way more so than I.

The temp bottomed out at 16 and warmed into the 30s during the day. By late afternoon, the lines had thawed enough to get water.


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## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

Welcome to Outbackers.com action 
Congrats on your new Trailer









You dry camp in the winter







.

I am not sure how long you stay in a place but here are some suggestions that might help.

1 - Keep the heat on and do not lower it at night
2 - Keep cabinet doors open so that the water lines receive some heat
3 - Generator
4 - Skirt the bottom of the TT so that the wind does not get underneath
5 - place a heater under the trailer once it has been skirted

Thor


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## 2500Ram (Oct 30, 2005)

Thor said:


> 4 - Skirt the bottom of the TT so that the wind does not get underneath
> 
> Thor
> [snapback]90986[/snapback]​


What about putting some insulation above the underbelly, that 2" blue/pink Styrofoam type or just remove the underbelly and replace with the insulation.

Just a thought, it would keep the radiant heat in much better.

Bill.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Oldschool said:


> I thought that perhaps there would be several others here who would have already experienced this and have some good responses.
> 
> [snapback]90980[/snapback]​


I winter camp and take precautions but I have never froze up while camping. The responses I gave are good and in line with what you *SHOULD *have been told by the dealer. We here on Outbackers will help but I don't think anyone here will sugar coat it or lie and say we never had problems, just so you can go back to the dealer and give them grief. They need to be taken to task if you were told the trailer was a full 4 season camper but a cursory look by you would have told you otherwise. Good luck on figuring out how to get around this situation but I think it may be a very difficult.

As for heat trace and batteries, that will not work very well for very long. You need AC power to run heat trace.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Oldschool,

I think skirting with a small heater underneath is going to be your best answer. It probably would not take much. If that is a reasonable option.

The other solution - and I hate to say it - is to look at replacing the Outback with a true all weather trailer (Arctic Fox comes to mind). If, as you say, your use of the trailer is primarily going to be in the winter, and in the environment you are describing, the Outback is really not the trailer for you. Sorry.









Good luck, and...

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## HootBob (Apr 26, 2004)

I don't do winter camping but I would haveto agree with Doug

Don


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

This is something you should really force back on the dealer. Sounds to me like they didn't give you the entire scoop on the "heated underbelly"

If you decide to keep the Outback, we'd sure like to see you and your other 2 Outback friends join us at the Pacific Northwest Rally, April 28th - 30th. See the link below if you're interested. We have close to 20 families coming at this time.

http://www.outbackers.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5499


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## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

I de-winterized mine Sunday and I had a couple of screws that were questionable that hold up the underbelly so I replaced them. While I had them out I took a look inside as I had never taken the time to check that part out. The low point drain is a joke. The line that runs from the water pump to the cluster above the low point drains runs uphill. That puts you in the area under the kitchen sink on my model. Then two lines run back to the water heater and where they teed into it they raised it up about 3 1/2" so there's another trap. Then it runs downhill before curving back up into the insulation and out of site. I couldn't believe they ran the lines like that. For all you guys that just blow out the lines I wish you the best. The pink stuff is the only way to go with that set-up. Tank label guy strikes again.


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## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

The radiant heated tanks is probably OUTBACKS biggest misconception. No one really understood it for awhile. Clever advertising by KEYSTONE.

My thoughts:
Try not to get ticked off at me...I'm just offering advice.

OUTBACK is a lightweight trailer. Lightweight means....less. Less material, less insulation....less warm. Period. They are specifically made to tow behind the average pickup truck. There are trailers you can get that will hold up better in cold temps, but OUTBACK is not one of them. Below freezing, winter camping means...drain water.

Yes, you can camp in temps that get pretty low, but you will have to take precautions...as you are doing. If those pipes are freezing...you are doing something that can't be done.

Personally, if my trailer water system was freezing...I'd drain it out and leave it dry/winterized. No sense wrecking the thing. Inconvenient...yea. It's better than replacing pumps and plumbing though.

Dealers will tell you anything. Some even make things up. Three fourths of what my dealer told me was total bull. Take it with a grain of salt. Dealers are one of the reasons this website was started in the first place.

I feel your pain being a little misled. I think we have all fallen victim to a little misleading information when it comes to our trailers. Overall, most are still happy with them.

Keep on winter camping, and good luck in your solutions. Dry camping would be more trouble...but you'd still be winter camping!


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## ee4308 (Aug 23, 2005)

Oldschool,

action Welcome to the site. I don't dry camp or camp in the cold parts of the country, so I can't help with any advice.







Hope you can figure out the problems and enjoy your Outback. sunny


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## Oldschool (Mar 15, 2006)

Thanks to all for the responses. My next step is to insulate the basement and figure out a way to remotely open the heat vents in to the basement when it's needed. (Which fortunately is rarely.) I may even use the skirting method as that makes sense and should be pretty easy to fab up as well.

We have no intention of going dry in the winter so that's out. It's just too bad that the local dealer sold it as a "all season rig". I'll have to disagree with the posted who stated that a "cursory glance" would have told me otherwise. I expected from the brochures and statements made by the sales folks that it as in fact insulated and I would have to have undone the bolts as you all know to find out otherwise.
If in fact, this is their most popular model of sales inAK as was stated, I would think there's a lot of unhappy campers up there as well.

We often go in the 20s and have no problems. But, going colder, into the teens is what the rig can't handle in it's current state.

Lastly, thanks for the invite to the "gathering". But, that seems a bit creepy.....
After all, it's just a trailer.


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

Oldschool said:


> Lastly, thanks for the invite to the "gathering". But, that seems a bit creepy.....
> After all, it's just a trailer.
> 
> 
> ...


What??

No Kool-Aid for you???









Well, good luck with whatever you decide to do with your unit. I know there aren't a whole lot of TT's that even have a radiant heated underbelly, so feel good about what you do have.

Steve


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## nascarcamper (Jan 27, 2005)

The outdoor shower would have been a clue for me.


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

Hi, oldschool!
I think the best tips were from Thor on post #8. In fact, the manual suggests that in subfreezing temps, you open the cabinets where water pipes are, to keep them from freezing up. I had already figured out the foam insulation for the water hook-up, after camping in the mountains at Christmas! shy Let's just say that the water was slightly frigid, when it DID come on! I think I've seen underskirting for campers advertised at Camping World, or one of those places, so you might look into that. I know with mobile homes, it's really a lifesaver. I downsized into a mobile home I had custom-built, and have it blocked and stucco underneath. No frozen pipes here. Course, I'm in South GA.








Good luck!
Darlene action


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## shake1969 (Sep 21, 2004)

huntr70 said:


> Oldschool said:
> 
> 
> > Lastly, thanks for the invite to the "gathering". But, that seems a bit creepy.....
> ...


I happen to think camping in 16 degree weather is a bit creepy.....
After all, it's just skiing.









But, to each his own.









Hope it works out for you.


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