# Tv's And Snow Chains



## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

I posted this question on another thread, but thought it would be best to bring to its own topic.

Knowing my diesel engine is really heavy and I'd prob be in 4-High in the snow/ice.....which tires would you put the chains on? Front or back?


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## Ray C (Apr 4, 2007)

i would only put chains on the back if needed my friend put chains on all four one year and broke 2 motor mounts plus i think if you read your owners manual it also says rear


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## GarethsDad (Apr 4, 2007)

I have run the cable type chains on the rear of my Suburban. http://www.vulcantire.com/cgi-bin/chainsea...f=chainz8_c.htm . My friend has cables on all 4 tires of his Suburban but he has a 10' plow. In Edit I don't drive in 4wheel vary far. It's only used to get back on the road or to a plowed road. James


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Snow chains? What are snow chains?
















BTW, sunny and upper 60s today.

*ON EDIT*: lower 70s!

Mark


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## jozway (Jan 28, 2008)

You should'nt need chains for most cases with 4wd. But if youre gonna get them you should chain up front and back.If not youre basically turn your truck into a 2wd.


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## Joonbee (Jan 18, 2008)

Moved my reply form the other thread. See different opinions here. Good discussion.

I am not positive, but I thought you had chain them all. Especially if you are using 4wd. Difference in grip and stress on the rears. But again, I am not positive. Gonna have to keep an eye on this now and find out. I am sure you guys in the great snow regions will know best.

Jim


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Simple is place them on all drive wheels.

Front wheel drive - then Front only
Rear wheel drive - then Rear only
4 wheel drive - then all wheels

In all cases drive slower then you think you should not as fast as you think you can.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Ray C said:


> i would only put chains on the back if needed my friend put chains on all four one year and broke 2 motor mounts plus i think if you read your owners manual it also says rear


Chain use and broken motor mounts are not related. Motor mounts break due to age or over torque. If age is not an issue then you can be sure that you can not over torque them in snow/ice no matter if you have chains or not.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Chain rear only. I dont have the time to get into it, The front end is much weaker than the rear.

If the truck gets good traction with all 4 chained while turning, you will break something, like a u joint, or hub in the front end. A 4x4 system needs some slip, that is why you dont run 4x4 on dry pavement, same with chains. If you all of the sudden get full traction, it will be all over if in a turn. Especially with diesel torque.

For off road traction climbing hills we used to chain the front only, but we had modified trucks. Mine was a 85 ranger on a wagoneer frame with dana 60 front axle. That rig was so strong it just didnt matter.

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

jozway said:


> You should'nt need chains for most cases with 4wd. But if youre gonna get them you should chain up front and back.If not youre basically turn your truck into a 2wd.


The truck wont act like a 2wd. The unchained front axle will allow good turning and will still have good pull.

I have a set of doubles for my dodge dually 4x4. So one set of chains will chain the 4 rear tires. If I chained the front on my dually, Id break the front end very easy.

Carey


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

GarethsDad said:


> I have run the cable type chains on the rear of my Suburban. http://www.vulcantire.com/cgi-bin/chainsea...f=chainz8_c.htm . My friend has cables on all 4 tires of his Suburban but he has a 10' plow. In Edit I don't drive in 4wheel vary far. It's only used to get back on the road or to a plowed road. James


Yep, if youd like to chain all 4, use cables only, not chain.. That way you have some slippage while turning..

Carey


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## mike elliott (Dec 17, 2007)

Living up here in the great white north (logging country) all my logging buddies out in the bush just chain the rear tires unless theyre trying to get out of the ditch (not by choice







) then they chain all 4 if they can just to get out then take the fronts back off.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Seems like this was a good topic. I was going to place them on the front, but will now place them on the rear tires.

BTW...in Portland we just set the all time record (according to one station) for snowfall at 18". We had about 4" on day...then about 1/2" of freezing rain...then 14" more inches of snow. While the East coasters might think this was a walk in the park, it brought Portland to its knees.

Everything was closed and roads were only open to vehicles with chains. 4wd...didnt count.


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Oregon_Camper said:


> Everything was closed and roads were only open to vehicles with chains. 4wd...didnt count.


Well... Actually, chains or winter traction tires were legal. It wasn't well - or evenly - reported, but mud/snow tires with the 'snowflake' symbol (winter rated) were acceptable as well. In my case, two days before it all started, but when it was obvious something big was coming, I picked up a set of studless winter tires from Les Schwab. This was a real leap of faith for me, as I have always been a died in the wool studded tire guy, but at $1,400 for a set of studded tires, I just couldn't do it this year. I did also buy a set of chains, just in case.

Long story short, I made it through the entire event without ever putting the chains on, or even feeling any need to. In fact, the vast majority of the time I was just fine in 2WD, and really only used 4WD in cases where I was starting out on a hill, or was in the really deep mucky stuff we have had in the last 48 hours as it's started to melt. I have to say I am amazed at how well these studless tires have performed, and will now count myself as a convert. I'm also impressed with how well the F-350 handles in the snow. I was nervous about managing all that diesel torque, but the shear weight of that engine over the front wheels provides astonishing directional control. I also found that between the Crew Cab and canopy, I had plenty of weight on the rear axle without adding anything extra in back.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

PDX_Doug said:


> I have to say I am amazed at how well these studless tires have performed, and will now count myself as a convert. I'm also impressed with how well the F-350 handles in the snow. I was nervous about managing all that diesel torque, but the shear weight of that engine over the front wheels provides astonishing directional control. I also found that between the Crew Cab and canopy, I had plenty of weight on the rear axle without adding anything extra in back.
> 
> Happy Trails,
> Doug


Ill second that!! This truck handles much better than i would have expected !!

As for snow chains or studded tires... never needed either here in MI. I live in lower and a cottage in Northern MI and at times snow is measured in feet, ive still never needed chains with 4WD.

Good luck out there and enjoy the fun!


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

PDX_Doug said:


> Everything was closed and roads were only open to vehicles with chains. 4wd...didnt count.


Well... Actually, chains or winter traction tires were legal. It wasn't well - or evenly - reported, but mud/snow tires with the 'snowflake' symbol (winter rated) were acceptable as well. In my case, two days before it all started, but when it was obvious something big was coming, I picked up a set of studless winter tires from Les Schwab. This was a real leap of faith for me, as I have always been a died in the wool studded tire guy, but at $1,400 for a set of studded tires, I just couldn't do it this year. I did also buy a set of chains, just in case.

Long story short, I made it through the entire event without ever putting the chains on, or even feeling any need to. In fact, the vast majority of the time I was just fine in 2WD, and really only used 4WD in cases where I was starting out on a hill, or was in the really deep mucky stuff we have had in the last 48 hours as it's started to melt. I have to say I am amazed at how well these studless tires have performed, and will now count myself as a convert. I'm also impressed with how well the F-350 handles in the snow. I was nervous about managing all that diesel torque, but the shear weight of that engine over the front wheels provides astonishing directional control. I also found that between the Crew Cab and canopy, I had plenty of weight on the rear axle without adding anything extra in back.

Happy Trails,
Doug
[/quote]
Heck, around here we got 10" on the 19th and I drove through it with my normal boring summer tires. No issues really. The 4wd just soldiers on. It's not as much FUN as the F150 was, but it get's the job done.

On the 22nd, I had a little excitement with mine in our sub. At 20mph, I got the right tire into the soft snow just out of the plowed street. Well, it grabbed, and it was amazing just how far you can plow into a snowbank with that much weight!








Once again, 4WD and abotu 50' of reverse and I was out and on my way









As for 4WD it is important that there is slippage on at least one set of wheels. The fronts turn slightly different speed (faster I think) than the rears. With the torque of any of these engines, something will slip and you want it to be the tires rather than the gears in the transfer case! Of course if you get some slippage with chains, that will work I suppose.


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## GlacierPeaks (Jan 22, 2007)

Here is the way I was always told to do it:

Drive in 2WD. If you get stuck, put it in 4WD.
If you get stuck in 4WD, put the chains on the rear.
If you get stuck in 4WD with the chains on the rear, put the second set of chains on the front and turn around & go home!

I just returned from a hunting trip where I towed a 20" enclosed cargo trailer. Spun out going up a steep backroads mountain pass with about 20" of snow. My brother convinced me to put the chains on the front which got us about 10 feet further. Then we took the chains off the front & put them on the rear and walked up the rest of the pass. On the way out of the camp 5 days later and 10" more snow (yep, snow up to my crotch) chains on the rear only, and trailer loaded with 2 Yamaha grizzlies, a polaris ranger, a 12x14 wall tent and all our other gear, pulled out of the camp and down the pass. (BTW, negative 81 degrees windchill while we were tearing down our campsite, fun!)

Did all that with 33" studed snow tires (Les Schwab STX's) and a 3" leveling kit & 4 " blocks on my F250 Crew Cab. My buddy pulled his 24' S.O.B. behind his F350 with all 4 chained up to & from the same camp.

Don't ever be tricked into buying "cable chains" over real chains for your full sized truck that you plan on towing with, YOU WILL BE DISSAPPOINTED! Buy the heaviest chains you can find. They will never let you down, and will last a lifetime.


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

GlacierPeaks said:


> Here is the way I was always told to do it:
> 
> Drive in 2WD. If you get stuck, put it in 4WD.
> If you get stuck in 4WD, put the chains on the rear.
> ...


What a great story.. Funny too!

I agree, chains are far superior to cables.. I chain up my semi at least once a week this time of the year..

Here is the deal on cheap chains... I once put a set of those cheap chains on my semi once. lol, when I let the clutch out, I coudnt help from spinning the tires a bit to get that 80k load rolling... lol When I looked in my mirror, all I seen was pieces of links flying off my tires.. That set of chains self destructed in 2 feet.. The boss had just given me a set, and was patting his self on the back for the smokin deal he got.. lol

Moral of the story, a cheap set of chains might get you out of a pinch when empty, but prolly not loaded.. I agree, spend the extra for the good ones..

You should see my set of doubles for my dually.. 1/4 inch links! They will ride horrible but will get me up/down those hills.

Carey


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## jozway (Jan 28, 2008)

Colorado~DirtBikers said:


> Here is the way I was always told to do it:
> 
> Drive in 2WD. If you get stuck, put it in 4WD.
> If you get stuck in 4WD, put the chains on the rear.
> ...


What a great story.. Funny too!

I agree, chains are far superior to cables.. I chain up my semi at least once a week this time of the year..

Here is the deal on cheap chains... I once put a set of those cheap chains on my semi once. lol, when I let the clutch out, I coudnt help from spinning the tires a bit to get that 80k load rolling... lol When I looked in my mirror, all I seen was pieces of links flying off my tires.. That set of chains self destructed in 2 feet.. The boss had just given me a set, and was patting his self on the back for the smokin deal he got.. lol

Moral of the story, a cheap set of chains might get you out of a pinch when empty, but prolly not loaded.. I agree, spend the extra for the good ones..

You should see my set of doubles for my dually.. 1/4 inch links! They will ride horrible but will get me up/down those hills.

Carey
[/quote]

So which is it Carey??? cables or chains


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

Well for an empty truck, suv, or car, cables work fine.. I might add that cables work well for gas powered vehicles pretty well too.. Gas engines dont make the torque right off the line like diesels do.. If you want to run all 4 chained, use a quality set of cables.. You will get pretty good traction and the rollers on the cables will allow enough slippage if you hit a dry spot. You will be less likely to cause damage with all 4 cabled up..

Do me a favor, and lock your 4x4 in high range on dry pavement, and stop at a stop sign, and make a right turn while locked in.. You'll feel the hard tug on the wheel from tires rolling at different speeds while gears are locked in one speed.. Now some transfer cases have planetary or a sun gear spools in them to allow the front to spin at different speeds than the rear.. But, most of those kind of transfer cases are on 1/2 tons, full time 4x4 rigs, or lighter weight rigs..

Our 3/4 and 1 tons still use the old direct type transfer cases of old for strength, but use a chain in them for quietness, smoothness, and shift on the fly capability, compared to the gear to gear transfer cases we found on our dads trucks.. Im sure you remember those late 60's and early 70 trucks.. The transfer cases werent very driver friendly, because they were gear to gear.. Super strong, but hard to shift..

Now imagine being under power with 4 wheels all chained(not cables) up with a load or on a hill.. Make that hard right hander and hit some pavement that has no snow on it(a bare spot).. Well, many times, there goes a front wheel joint, hub if manual locking hubs, or front pinion u joint.. Those parts can be snapped real easy when put to those extremes..

A rear axle has larger shaft joints, no hubs, or wheel u joints.. A rear axle is easy twice stronger than a front axle..

But companies make cable chains for our semis, and those are legal for us to run.. Although they are like 7/16ths rollers on 3/8ths cable.. Most of us truckers dont like em much, cause they are harder to work with than chains.. They are very stiff..

Now if you are pulling a trailer, never chain the front unless you are off road like the funny story above.. If your in all snow it doesnt matter as much.. But most of the time there is less snow around intersections, because the plow trucks tend to add snow melters more to intersections for safety..

Well, you will be under power at that bare intersection, and quite possibly be turning too.. That diesel will be making twice the torque off idle compared to gas. If your outback is behind you, all of that torque will be centered at the hub or wheel joint in the front axle, because the front wheels will be turning a different speed than the rear.. Those parts can be snapped like a pencil at that time..

Like Glacir said, its time to go home if you need front chains..

You wont hurt a thing if you stick to rear only chains, or all 4 with cable chains.. Take your pick.. You will get the same traction with rear axle chains or all 4 with cables.. Up to you..

Carey


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

Carey,

The bucking in 4wD is from the difference in distance the front is travelling in a turn verus the rear. As you correctly noted both front and rear axle ratios are equal and are locked 1:1 via the transfer case. Therefore for an equal rotation on the inputs the outputs have and equal rotation and when going straight have travelled the same distance. Of course when you turn they don't. You can easily see that when as you try to turn harder the bucking increases. Chains on the front would be a real bad idea unless your out on a frozen lake!

Mike C


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

NJMikeC said:


> Carey,
> 
> The bucking in 4wD is from the difference in distance the front is travelling in a turn verus the rear. As you correctly noted both front and rear axle ratios are equal and are locked 1:1 via the transfer case. Therefore for an equal rotation on the inputs the outputs have and equal rotation and when going straight have travelled the same distance. Of course when you turn they don't. You can easily see that when as you try to turn harder the bucking increases. Chains on the front would be a real bad idea unless your out on a frozen lake!
> 
> Mike C


Yepper.. You say it one way, I say it another.. lol Still comes down to the front tires turning at a different speed than the rear while turning with the transfer case locked and turning same speed front and rear.

Full time 4x4 rigs have a sun gear planetary in the transfer case to allow turning without gear bind, so turning on dry pavement isnt an issue with them.

Carey


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