# Reality Check



## joeymac (Aug 19, 2010)

Came upon this accident on I-64 this afternoon, minutes after it happened. I was luckily going Westbound so this didn't affect me, other than to help me re-focus on driving safely. No one was injuried.

Son witnesses father's crash that tied up traffic on I-64


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## duggy (Mar 17, 2010)

I'm betting he either didn't have sway control, or it wasn't set up right!


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## beth323 (Jul 28, 2010)

Still makes one think though. We live in Michigan and the Canadian trucks blow past you. We also see people pulling their campers without a bit of caution. Not saying either one of these were an issue with this guy. My heart goes out him. Nothing beats a good hitch.


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## Braggus (Aug 8, 2010)

beth323 said:


> Still makes one think though. We live in Michigan and the Canadian trucks blow past you. We also see people pulling their campers without a bit of caution. Not saying either one of these were an issue with this guy. My heart goes out him. Nothing beats a good hitch.


X2 on that...


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## Traveling Tek (Oct 15, 2010)

For the record. I have been towing years. The Outback is by far the worst trailer to tow I have ever owned. It's lightweight and the axles are too far forward in my opinion. This makes it sway in the wind of truck way more then anything else I have ever towed. First couple of trips out with I nearly lost it. I have full sway control and load levelers and I am towing with a 1 ton. I now understand how it feels behind me and I can compensate correctly, but I can see how easily it would be for wind from a truck to cause someone to loose control. Sway controls or not.

My old 1973 30ft Holiday Rambler had no sway controls or load levelers. I hardly had any sway issues with it at all.

Just saying is all. The farther back the axles the easier to keep control.


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## duggy (Mar 17, 2010)

Traveling Tek said:


> The farther back the axles the easier to keep control.


I've always maintained that the number one cause of sway, is lack of tongue weight. Your comment about the axle position supports my theory. If the axles are farther back, odds are you will tend to put more stuff ahead of the axle, which will add to tongue weight. Our Outback has absolutely no sway issues. If you do have sway issues, if there is any way to get your rig weighed, I'm betting you don't have 12 to 15% tongue weight. At least, try moving a few heavier items forward, and see if it helps. Also, if your fresh water tank is behind the axles like mine, filling it will hurt the balance of the trailer. I always travel with just a little water, in case I need to flush or something. We fill at the campground. I prefer to travel with all the tanks empty, or close to it. I'm too cheap to pay for the gas to haul an extra 500 or more pounds that I can avoid. I just had another thought as I'm typing. If you have a few hundred pounds of water at the rear of the trailer, and it starts sloshing in a sway situation, that would only make matters worse!


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

duggy said:


> The farther back the axles the easier to keep control.


I've always maintained that the number one cause of sway, is lack of tongue weight. Your comment about the axle position supports my theory. If the axles are farther back, odds are you will tend to put more stuff ahead of the axle, which will add to tongue weight. Our Outback has absolutely no sway issues. If you do have sway issues, if there is any way to get your rig weighed, I'm betting you don't have 12 to 15% tongue weight. At least, try moving a few heavier items forward, and see if it helps. Also, if your fresh water tank is behind the axles like mine, filling it will hurt the balance of the trailer. I always travel with just a little water, in case I need to flush or something. We fill at the campground. I prefer to travel with all the tanks empty, or close to it. I'm too cheap to pay for the gas to haul an extra 500 or more pounds that I can avoid. I just had another thought as I'm typing. If you have a few hundred pounds of water at the rear of the trailer, and it starts sloshing in a sway situation, that would only make matters worse!
[/quote]

The water is in the front on his trailer but he carries a bit of a load on the rear bumper so this could affect the balance some.


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## RWRiley (Oct 21, 2009)

I see some manufacturers are spreading the axles further apart. I wonder if that helps the sway problems.


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## Traveling Tek (Oct 15, 2010)

Sway is reduced greatly when the water tank is full and the grey/blacks are empty. The extra battery weight and gas cans helped too. I did have to click up a extra chain on the weight distribution. The biggest difference I noticed, was when I put load range E tires on in place of the load D's These tires run at 80 PSI as opposed to the old ones 60PSI. This makes it far more stable feeling with less rock.

But yes. I run tongue heavy on purpose. I think it tows better that way. Specially with the way the van handles already.


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## Duanesz (Jul 10, 2009)

The manufactures know how to build a trailer that tows well. The design and floor plan people win on what they want the trailer to look like and the layout. I also believe that they are trying to keep the tongue weights low on purpose so there trailer will be able to be towed by more vehicles. You never here a rv company say our rv tows better than brand x.


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## duggy (Mar 17, 2010)

Traveling Tek said:


> The biggest difference I noticed, was when I put load range E tires on in place of the load D's These tires run at 80 PSI as opposed to the old ones 60PSI. This makes it far more stable feeling with less rock.


My 2010 Express 2500 came with the load range E tires. From the factory, they run with 50 psi in the front, and 80 psi in the rear. They carry the load great, but make for a rough ride when the van isn't loaded. I lowered the pressure to 50 psi for the winter, to give a better ride. It made a difference, but then the low tire pressure warning was on all the time. Raising the pressure up to 60 psi got me past the warning, but still helped the ride. Now that it's trailer towing time again, I guess I should raise the pressure back up to 80.


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## Duanesz (Jul 10, 2009)

joeymac said:


> Came upon this accident on I-64 this afternoon, minutes after it happened. I was luckily going Westbound so this didn't affect me, other than to help me re-focus on driving safely. No one was injuried.
> 
> Son witnesses father's crash that tied up traffic on I-64


That's the exit I get off at to go to my uncles house. Its not to hilly there from what I remember. I always liked that section of I-64 nice road rolling hills pretty area for sure.

Where in northern Ky do you live? My dads family is in Grayson area.


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## joeymac (Aug 19, 2010)

Duanesz said:


> Came upon this accident on I-64 this afternoon, minutes after it happened. I was luckily going Westbound so this didn't affect me, other than to help me re-focus on driving safely. No one was injuried.
> 
> Son witnesses father's crash that tied up traffic on I-64


That's the exit I get off at to go to my uncles house. Its not to hilly there from what I remember. I always liked that section of I-64 nice road rolling hills pretty area for sure.

Where in northern Ky do you live? My dads family is in Grayson area.








[/quote]

I-64 is full of rolling hills. We were on our way home from Carter Caves. If you ever get a chance to stay there, that park is great. Lots to do there.

I live in Hebron, close to the Cincinnati/Northern KY Int. airport.


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## Duanesz (Jul 10, 2009)

joeymac said:


> Came upon this accident on I-64 this afternoon, minutes after it happened. I was luckily going Westbound so this didn't affect me, other than to help me re-focus on driving safely. No one was injuried.
> 
> Son witnesses father's crash that tied up traffic on I-64


That's the exit I get off at to go to my uncles house. Its not to hilly there from what I remember. I always liked that section of I-64 nice road rolling hills pretty area for sure.

Where in northern Ky do you live? My dads family is in Grayson area.








[/quote]

I-64 is full of rolling hills. We were on our way home from Carter Caves. If you ever get a chance to stay there, that park is great. Lots to do there.

I live in Hebron, close to the Cincinnati/Northern KY Int. airport.
[/quote]

I have spent time at carter caves many family reunions there. You were right by Grayson were my dads family is from.


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## Scoutr2 (Aug 21, 2006)

Love the guy's comment, below the article, who said he'd been towing trailers for years and the Outback is by far the worst trailer to pull! Ha! He claims that Outbacks are too light and the axles are too far forward on Outbacks, which make them hard to control. I replied back to him that the placement of the axles on ALL travel trailers is dictated by the weight of the trailer, so that 12%-15% of the trailer's weight is on the tongue. I added that people need to learn how to load their trailers to maintain that weight/tongue weight ratio. Then there is: speed, WD hitch (did he have one?), and the fact that he was towing with a 1/2-ton truck, which will pull a 25' trailer, but controlling it is another story. So if you ask me - the trailer was probably too HEAVY for that truck, not too light!

Mike


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Scoutr2 said:


> Love the guy's comment, below the article, who said he'd been towing trailers for years and the Outback is by far the worst trailer to pull! Ha! He claims that Outbacks are too light and the axles are too far forward on Outbacks, which make them hard to control. I replied back to him that the placement of the axles on ALL travel trailers is dictated by the weight of the trailer, so that 12%-15% of the trailer's weight is on the tongue. I added that people need to learn how to load their trailers to maintain that weight/tongue weight ratio. Then there is: speed, WD hitch (did he have one?), and the fact that he was towing with a 1/2-ton truck, which will pull a 25' trailer, but controlling it is another story. So if you ask me - the trailer was probably too HEAVY for that truck, not too light!
> 
> Mike


See post 5 above.


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## Duanesz (Jul 10, 2009)

I pulled my 25rss with a 03 f-150. Besides being under powered and bad gear ratio once up to speed it handled the trailer fine.


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## joeymac (Aug 19, 2010)

CamperAndy said:


> Love the guy's comment, below the article, who said he'd been towing trailers for years and the Outback is by far the worst trailer to pull! Ha! He claims that Outbacks are too light and the axles are too far forward on Outbacks, which make them hard to control. I replied back to him that the placement of the axles on ALL travel trailers is dictated by the weight of the trailer, so that 12%-15% of the trailer's weight is on the tongue. I added that people need to learn how to load their trailers to maintain that weight/tongue weight ratio. Then there is: speed, WD hitch (did he have one?), and the fact that he was towing with a 1/2-ton truck, which will pull a 25' trailer, but controlling it is another story. So if you ask me - the trailer was probably too HEAVY for that truck, not too light!
> 
> Mike


See post 5 above.
[/quote]

hilarious


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## Michael1 (Apr 2, 2010)

Traveling Tek said:


> For the record. I have been towing years. The Outback is by far the worst trailer to tow I have ever owned. It's lightweight and the axles are too far forward in my opinion. This makes it sway in the wind of truck way more then anything else I have ever towed. First couple of trips out with I nearly lost it. I have full sway control and load levelers and I am towing with a 1 ton. I now understand how it feels behind me and I can compensate correctly, but I can see how easily it would be for wind from a truck to cause someone to loose control. Sway controls or not.
> 
> My old 1973 30ft Holiday Rambler had no sway controls or load levelers. I hardly had any sway issues with it at all.
> 
> Just saying is all. The farther back the axles the easier to keep control.


Really? I have a 2005 Chevy Express 2500 and it does a really nice job keeping the Outback inline. I have the Equalizer setup for sway control and I can only think of one occasion that I felt some sway and that was during a severe thunderstorm that we hit on the way home from a weekend trip last year. I feel that the long wheelbase of the Express van is very beneficial in maintaining good control of the TT.

Michael


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## duggy (Mar 17, 2010)

Michael said:


> For the record. I have been towing years. The Outback is by far the worst trailer to tow I have ever owned. It's lightweight and the axles are too far forward in my opinion. This makes it sway in the wind of truck way more then anything else I have ever towed. First couple of trips out with I nearly lost it. I have full sway control and load levelers and I am towing with a 1 ton. I now understand how it feels behind me and I can compensate correctly, but I can see how easily it would be for wind from a truck to cause someone to loose control. Sway controls or not.
> 
> My old 1973 30ft Holiday Rambler had no sway controls or load levelers. I hardly had any sway issues with it at all.
> 
> Just saying is all. The farther back the axles the easier to keep control.


Really? I have a 2005 Chevy Express 2500 and it does a really nice job keeping the Outback inline. I have the Equalizer setup for sway control and I can only think of one occasion that I felt some sway and that was during a severe thunderstorm that we hit on the way home from a weekend trip last year. I feel that the long wheelbase of the Express van is very beneficial in maintaining good control of the TT.

Michael
[/quote]

X2
I have the same setup on our Outback, and it tows like a dream. I even towed it for a month with our 03 1/2 ton Express van with the 4.3 V6. It was pretty weak on the hills, and I hoped the tranny would last till the new van came in, but it followed along fantastic, and I got way better gas mileage with that van than the new 6.0.


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## Traveling Tek (Oct 15, 2010)

I guess I am just not comparing equal tows. My old '73 Holiday Rambler behind my '95 Suburban diesel just towed so much easy with much less sway from wind and trucks.

Once talked to a guy who delivers campers all over Canada and US, he said he didn't like the way to Outbacks towed either. Granted I have only owned 4 different travel trailers, the outback being one of them, and the outback is probably the heaviest, which I am sure plays into it.


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