# 31fqbhs Wiggling When Towing.



## 04SUPERDUTY (Jul 3, 2006)

Does anyone have the new 31FQBHS and tow with a f 350? or oven just own a 31FQBHS? i need to know if you have any problems when towing having the trailer not really whip around but move or wiggle back and forth. its not real bad but still not what i want it to do. 
my truck is a 04 f 350, i have a rear sway bar and keep the tires at max of 65 psi. 
i keep the trailer tires at thier max of 65 also. 
the trailer sits nose high by about 2" or so.
with the new trailer the water tank is all the way in the back but i try to keep as much weight forward as i can but still think there is to little tongue weight. 
thanks for any help.


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Hi 04superduty









Do you travel with your water tanks full? What type of hitch and weight distribution system are you using? Sounds like you need a distribution system that will enable you to crank down the tongue down to bring it level, such as the Equalizer or similar...

The more information you provide, the better

I'm no expert and hopefully someone else will be around later to help 
Good Luck,
Dawn


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

Since you are towing a 5er, I would suspect too much weight back of the axles or the axels may not be square to the king pin?


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## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

04SUPERDUTY said:


> Does anyone have the new 31FQBHS and tow with a f 350? or oven just own a 31FQBHS? i need to know if you have any problems when towing having the trailer not really whip around but move or wiggle back and forth. its not real bad but still not what i want it to do.
> my truck is a 04 f 350, i have a rear sway bar and keep the tires at max of 65 psi.
> i keep the trailer tires at thier max of 65 also.
> the trailer sits nose high by about 2" or so.
> ...


 When I towed my camper home. I had my rear tires at 65. I also got some wiggle. Last time i took it out i bumped them up to 73. it did seem to help quite a bit. I think my tires have a rating of 80 max. What kind of tires do you have on the rear of the truck?


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## 04SUPERDUTY (Jul 3, 2006)

i have BFG all terrains, 285/75 16's and had them at their max PSI of 65. i usually travel with a full water tank since the places i go have water but its a long distance, 300' + and i cant get my trailer near the water. 
i have a pull rite superglide hitch and dont think weight disribution bars will work








the one thing that Govols said has me wondering. when i look at the front of my trailer it looks like the pin box is not square but with the front of the trailer not being flat it is really hard to figure out. i asked the dealer and they of course said it was fine. 
i cant figure out how to see if the pin box is square. there really isnt anything to measure off of on the front of the trailer, about the only thing i could find was the landing gear. i got a difference of about 3/8 of and inch. that was measuring front the each landing gear to the corners on each side of the pin box. aaahhh this sucks
i think that the wiggling might be a couple of things, 1 the water tank being so far back, the BFG tires, and possible the planets being out of alignment. 








thanks for all the help so far.
i did load everything heavy i could to the front of the trailer but might need to get more weight up front. can we say dual 6v batteries.


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Duh, sorry...didn't realize it was a 5'r
















i'll just sit this one out


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## jfish21 (Feb 14, 2006)

Hi Hi 04superduty 
Welcome 
Is this your first 5er? Are you getting side to side wiggle or front to back,Porousing is What call it, this can be some what normal. I'v found it out when I fill my water tank or load extra's inthe rear and it was in my last 5er also. Try loading more gear to the front and run it on a scale.
I run my tires at max. tire PSI for the wt. 85 in my Goodyears.
Good luck

Jerry


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## sleecjr (Mar 24, 2006)

04SUPERDUTY said:


> i have BFG all terrains, 285/75 16's and had them at their max PSI of 65.


Ok this could be part of the problem You have a load range D tire. Most heavy duty trucks have load range E.
These have a stiffer side wall. Read the info Copied below. Does this sound like what you have?

BFG LT285/75R16/D [email protected]

Load Range

Load Range is another way of indicating the ability of a tire to handle stress and weight. This time, we are indicating how much load can be placed on the tire horizontally. Often, these tires are associated with towing because the back end of the car tends to wallow while towing a trailer. In other words, you are exerting stress on the tire from side-to-side.

While there is no industry-wide definition of ply rating, truck tires are frequently marked with ply rating and equivalent Load Range. These markings are used to identify the load and inflation limits of that particular tire, when used in a specific type of service:

Load Range Ply Rating 
A 2 
B 4 
C 6 
D 8 
E 10 
F 12 
G 14 
H 16 
J 18 
K 20 
L 22 
M 24 
N 26

Source: Bridgestone/Firestone North America, Sizes and Classifications

Remember, load range indicates horizontal and sidewall strength.


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## 04SUPERDUTY (Jul 3, 2006)

the load rating could be one, but unfortunately like you said sleecjr there is no set industry standard. it seems as the tire size increases the carrying capicity does to, at least with BFG all terrains. here is an example, LT235/85R16/E [email protected] less capicity but probably more layers on the side wall and a smaller side wall too. 
i am going to hopefully soon take the trailer out for a spin with no water in the tank and see how it does. 
also i am going to try to borrow a set of rims and tires in a smaller stock size from my old work and see how it truck behaves.

the one thing i can think of with the tires is i see trucks on 35's and 37's that dont seem to whip around much, but their trailers are usually more level. i need to measure my trailer but i think the front is higher than 2" like i said before, its probably closer to 4".
i will try to ge the truck and trailer weighted to and figure out how much tongue weight i have.
sleecjr cute baby their, my little girl turns 1 tomorrow.


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## ARzark (Aug 9, 2005)

It sounds like it's a weight issue, too much weight behind the axles. When you fill that fresh water tank, that just amplifies the problem. I am dealing with something similar, but my biggest problem is the front to back lurching. I too am about 2" higher in the nose than the rear too with my new TV. This will cause some problems for sure.

One thing I did was shorten the pin box. Not too bad of a job, fairly easy, 8 bolts. Dropped the nose an inch or so and I noticed a difference in the ride. Just have to make sure you maintain as much clearance as possible on those bedrails!

I took my spare off the back bumper and stow it in the front storage. I try to put as much weight in the front as possible, and it really helps. Eventually I am going to have a 2" spacer installed on the Outback, raising the unit that much above the axles. That should give me a perfect level ride. That should (I hope) resolve the problem.

Keep playing around with moving weight around. It really sounds like not enough pin weight to me. Then again, I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night


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## huntr70 (Jul 8, 2005)

You may want to shoot Tdvffjohn a PM...he is camping this weekend with his new 5er...the same model as yours.

Steve


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

04SUPERDUTY,

I am certainly not an expert on fifth wheels, but from what you have said I would think the tires are the most suspect. You have a lot of pin weight on that rear axle, but nice as they are, if the max inflation on the BFG's is 65PSI, those are not the stongest sidewalls you can get. Just a thought? As far as the weight in the back from the tanks is concerned, that could be part of it, but I like to think Keystone would have engineered things better than that.









Happy Trails,
Doug


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

I did not have any problems this weekend. The key to your problem as you say it is wiggle. Your pin weight is easily around 1500. The first problem is definitely tire pressure. The tires should be at max pressure for that tire (all 4 tires) I agree that E rated tires would be better but try tire pressures first.

If the trailer is nose high, it is already shifting extra weight to the rear of the trailer. Too much weight rear of the axle would cause a sway problem but with any trailer, you would have had to have a lot of weight back there with this model, I believe. You did say wiggle not sway so my guess is still the tires.

Any chance of a friend having a same truck with E rated tires that you could swap for an hour and try it?

On my sons old Tahoe with a car trailer, all his wiggle was in his C rated tires, E rated eliminated it.

John


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## GlenninTexas (Aug 11, 2004)

Just to add one more thought. Is your hitch mounted properly in the bed? It should be situated to where the pin is slightly forward of the rear axle. If yuor hitch is a slider, make sure it's in the forward position, otherwise your pin weight will be behind your truck rear axle.

Regards, Glenn


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## Sasha (Apr 13, 2004)

The truck tires need to have the right load rating, which I believe is E as stated before. This tire has a stiffer side wall and is needed for the weight in the bed. The E rating tires have a stiffer side wall. With so much weight behind the axels with a full fresh water tank, I would consider filling up with water when you get closer to your destination as this will force more weight to be on the pin. The shifting of the water could also be contributing to your sway issue. I have a 05 29FBHS and have never had any issues with sway.


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## 04SUPERDUTY (Jul 3, 2006)

i have a pullrite superglide hitch and believe that it is mounted about 1" in front of the rear axle. i am going to try to borrow a set of smaller tires and rims but it might be 2 weeks until then. if the problem turns out to be the tires it will have to wait at least until next year for new ones. just got these last fall, and at 225 per tire i have to use them up. 
thanks for all the info so far.


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## dougdogs (Jul 31, 2004)

unless I missed it in an earlier post, I think we need more info here.

I'm going to make a SWAG here (Scientific Wild Ass Guess) Your Ford is a 4X4 and you also have the FX4 package or the snowplow package.??!!?? If the answer is yes to any of these options, your hitch might be too high. If you have all these options your pin height is definitely too high. (unless someone raised your trailer pin box)

Park your rig in a level parking lot, get out, and walk a few hundred feet away. See if your trailer is sitting level on both axles. If you are squatting on the rear trailer axle, it will definitely try to hop around.


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## eyeguy (Sep 7, 2004)

I think your problem has more to do with the trailer being nose up and not enough pin weight. You could weigh each trailer axle and see if you have more weight on the rear axle. I have BFG 285/70/17's on my truck they are D rated but max load is 3195Lb which is higher than the E rated OEM tires. I have about 5300lbs on the rear axle when fully loaded so I am not pushing the load limit. I really like them I think it handles better loaded and unloaded than it did with the stock tires. But what do I know?


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## 04SUPERDUTY (Jul 3, 2006)

dougdogs said:


> unless I missed it in an earlier post, I think we need more info here.
> 
> I'm going to make a SWAG here (Scientific Wild Ass Guess) Your Ford is a 4X4 and you also have the FX4 package or the snowplow package.??!!?? If the answer is yes to any of these options, your hitch might be too high. If you have all these options your pin height is definitely too high. (unless someone raised your trailer pin box)
> 
> Park your rig in a level parking lot, get out, and walk a few hundred feet away. See if your trailer is sitting level on both axles. If you are squatting on the rear trailer axle, it will definitely try to hop around.


yep my truck is a 4x4 F 350 which makes the rear sit pretty high. 4" blocks verses the 2" for a 250. 
it does have the fx4 package but my understanding is the fx4 package is only shocks with a rancho sticker on them and a fuel tank skid plate. oh and some cool FX4 stickers.








it basically has the snow plow prep package, which is the x code 6000 lb rated front springs which i added since i have a 9'2" v blade hanging off the front in the winter. but that only raises the front up about 1.5" and it still isnt level.
it also came with the camper prep package which was a rear stabalizer and a front steering damper. 
i do know that my trailer isnt level when i tow it, the front is about 3" or so too high. hopefully friday i will be able to take it for a spin and find out. thanks again for all the ideas and info.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Can you post a pic hooked up on level ground?


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## dougdogs (Jul 31, 2004)

04SUPERDUTY said:


> unless I missed it in an earlier post, I think we need more info here.
> 
> I'm going to make a SWAG here (Scientific Wild Ass Guess) Your Ford is a 4X4 and you also have the FX4 package or the snowplow package.??!!?? If the answer is yes to any of these options, your hitch might be too high. If you have all these options your pin height is definitely too high. (unless someone raised your trailer pin box)
> 
> Park your rig in a level parking lot, get out, and walk a few hundred feet away. See if your trailer is sitting level on both axles. If you are squatting on the rear trailer axle, it will definitely try to hop around.


yep my truck is a 4x4 F 350 which makes the rear sit pretty high. 4" blocks verses the 2" for a 250. 
it does have the fx4 package but my understanding is the fx4 package is only shocks with a rancho sticker on them and a fuel tank skid plate. oh and some cool FX4 stickers.








it basically has the snow plow prep package, which is the x code 6000 lb rated front springs which i added since i have a 9'2" v blade hanging off the front in the winter. but that only raises the front up about 1.5" and it still isnt level.
it also came with the camper prep package which was a rear stabalizer and a front steering damper. 
i do know that my trailer isnt level when i tow it, the front is about 3" or so too high. hopefully friday i will be able to take it for a spin and find out. thanks again for all the ideas and info.
[/quote]

My 06 is 4X4 but not FX4. when I bought mine there was an FX4 on the lot next to my truck and the top of the bed rails were about an inch higher. If you have plenty of clearance between the bed rails and your trailer, I would concider unbolting the pinbox and mounting it in higher holes. If I remember correctly, the superglide hitch does not have height adjustment


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

eyeguy said:


> I think your problem has more to do with the trailer being nose up and not enough pin weight. You could weigh each trailer axle and see if you have more weight on the rear axle. I have BFG 285/70/17's on my truck they are D rated but max load is 3195Lb which is higher than the E rated OEM tires. I have about 5300lbs on the rear axle when fully loaded so I am not pushing the load limit. I really like them I think it handles better loaded and unloaded than it did with the stock tires. But what do I know?


Load rating isn't everything. An F350 should have E-rated tires, run at 80 psi in the rear. The sidewalls of E-tires at 80 are much more resistant to side-t-side movement. D-rated at 65 WILL cause the back end of the truck to "wobble" side to side. Even with pin weight a little low, it should tow plenty stable, but only if that pin is sitting on a stable platform.

Sluggo


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## 04SUPERDUTY (Jul 3, 2006)

tdvffjohn said:


> Can you post a pic hooked up on level ground?


i will try to get a pic this weekend, if it ever stops raining.


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## 04SUPERDUTY (Jul 3, 2006)

well i got my truck and trailer weighted. 
----------------truck----------trailer with waste tanks 1/2 full------------trailer with water tank full

steer axle------4460---------------------4640-------------------------------------------4460

drive axle------3380---------------------5480-------------------------------------------5300

trailer axles-----00-----------------------7500-------------------------------------------7680

total-------------7840---------------------17620-----------------------------------------17440

i first weighted the trailer with the water tank full, then i filled all 3 holding tanks to 1/2 full, emptying the water tank. i figured that this would best simulate how the truck and trailer would be coming back from camping if i didnt dump my tanks. i re weighted the trailer again, then finally weighed the truck.
the truck had 3/4 tank of fuel, which is about 50 gallons, ( i have a 30 gallon tool box fuel tank combo) without me or anyone in the truck. my truck is a little heavy, but it does have the tool box/fuel tank, a plow sub frame, and the pull rite hitch.
it looks like everything is good on the weights, tongue weight is between 15%-20%, closer to 19 percent. 
i have no idea why the GW has a difference of 180 lbs, i know its not me on the scale, it has been a few years since i weighed that little.








so i would guess my wiggle my be a combination of the trucks D rated tires, and the trailer not sitting level.
i still need to tank a pic, the wife hurried me today and i forgot. hopefully monday i will be able to take one.


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Thanks for the numbers. It gives me an idea of mine also.

It would have been interesting if you had one more number. Split the scale with the two trailer axles and see if they were close to the same with weight distribution.

John


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## 04SUPERDUTY (Jul 3, 2006)

tdvffjohn said:


> Thanks for the numbers. It gives me an idea of mine also.
> 
> It would have been interesting if you had one more number. Split the scale with the two trailer axles and see if they were close to the same with weight distribution.
> 
> John


i tried to do that, i had each trailer axle on a different pad on the scale, there were like 5-6 pads, it was a large scale and michigan allows more axles 11, and higher weights, 160,000 + lbs, depending on axle spacing. 
anyway, the weigh ticked wasnt split up like i wanted it to, i should have said something but it was lunch time and the place was packed.


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## Lmbevard (Mar 18, 2006)

I really think that you hit on the problem. I've got a 2000 Dodge 3500 4x4 that sits very high but the dealer had set the hitch and the camper up right so that it sets level. I would have to check the load rating on the tires but I think they are E rating. I haven't had any problems with wiggling or swagging. About the only problem I have ever had is purposing on one section of road north of here, but there is not much I can really do about that except detouring arond it. I would check into getting the camper set up so it is level first of all. You might be able to lower the truck 2 or 3" and solve the problem.


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

Had the same problem with my 31RQS and my Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins. The Cummins sits up about 4-5 inches higher in the back than the front, at least. The dealership actually measured the front/back of the OB while hooked up, on level parking lot, to get the ball height correct. 
Also had to do some fine-tuning on the Reese Dual Cam H/P Sway system. Now, it just follows along like a happy puppy!!








Darlene


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

His is a fifth wheel.........but level towing still applies


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## Carey (Mar 6, 2012)

PDX_Doug said:


> 04SUPERDUTY,
> 
> I am certainly not an expert on fifth wheels, but from what you have said I would think the tires are the most suspect. You have a lot of pin weight on that rear axle, but nice as they are, if the max inflation on the BFG's is 65PSI, those are not the stongest sidewalls you can get. Just a thought? As far as the weight in the back from the tanks is concerned, that could be part of it, but I like to think Keystone would have engineered things better than that.
> 
> ...


X2

Carey


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

2280 Pin, 7500 Trailer. That is closer to 25% , a little shy of 2000 is 20% so I guess that throws out the theory that you don't have enough pin weight.

How did it drive with water vs. w/o water? If you saw and improvement then it would look more like lack of pin weight.

Think you throw out problems with porpoising as well. Therefore I would say the folks who have been leading you towards tires are looking a little smarter. How about out of round tire, bent wheel?


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## mountainlady56 (Feb 13, 2006)

tdvffjohn said:


> His is a fifth wheel.........but level towing still applies


Sorry!
Thanks for correcting me, John!







There's so many units, and they are CONSTANTLY coming out with even MORE models, it's hard to keep up with them.








Darlene


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

04SUPERDUTY said:


> Does anyone have the new 31FQBHS and tow with a f 350? or oven just own a 31FQBHS? i need to know if you have any problems when towing having the trailer not really whip around but move or wiggle back and forth. its not real bad but still not what i want it to do.
> my truck is a 04 f 350, i have a rear sway bar and keep the tires at max of 65 psi.
> i keep the trailer tires at thier max of 65 also.
> the trailer sits nose high by about 2" or so.
> ...


If those are the OEM tires on your truck, you were shortchanged. They should be Load Range E, max pressure of 80. That will make a tremendous difference.

I thought I was getting a pretty good tow, and just yesterday I replaced the miserable, floppy Marathon ST's with a heavy LT load range E tire. It tows so much more smoothly, I can't believe it...

Sluggo


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## 04SUPERDUTY (Jul 3, 2006)

the OEM tires were replaced with my current load range D BFG's. i thought that the tire place would know what they were doing when selling me tires. guess this is another situation where i should have done some research before hand. i know in the future i will be getting a minimum of a E rating.
it didnt tow much different with the water tank empty, maybe a little better but not much. 
i hope that the rims are not bent, they are brand new.
next year my tires will need to be replaced, so it looks like then i will replace them with a load range E. i cant afford to throw such good tires away. they have at least 10,000 more miles left in them.


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## countrygirl (Apr 9, 2006)

Last year my husband bought me some new tires for my Duramax at Tire Kingdom....they sold and mounted the wrong size....because my vehicle is rated for the heavier tires...the truck drove funny...he went back and they did not have the correct size in...so we went on our annual hunting trip and when we got back...the new tires were in and they took the old ones back with 2500 miles on them. It is their business to sell you the correct size/rated tires...because they could/would be libel if an accident occurs due to improper tires.


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## 04SUPERDUTY (Jul 3, 2006)

well i finally convinced the wife that we needed new tires, of course they went along with the new 17" rims i bough for my birthday.








with the new rims i got some load range E BFG all terrains then went on a 500 mile round trip vacation up north. i was instantly able to tell the difference with the new tires. the trailer barely even swayed around at all, even with what seemed like 40 mph gusts. i did go with a smaller size tire, 265's since BFG does not make a load range E 285. now the trailer is not as nose high but i still might need to get the trailer lifted.


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## jetjane (Feb 8, 2007)

We tow our 31fqbhs with full water tank as well as our boat behind it and haven't had any sway problems. It is pretty close to being level. We did the same with our Cougar 281efs (the water tank is also in the back as well as the boat) and didn't have sway problems either except the one time when DH took a "shortcut" on a wet gravel/muddy road...our setup was like a snake slithering down the road!!!


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## 04SUPERDUTY (Jul 3, 2006)

Jetjane your truck sits lower than mine due to no solid front axle and should tow a little more level. mine is pretty close, i still have not measured how close to level it sits since i got the new tires. 
did you have to strenghthen up your 5ers rear frame to tow your boat?


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## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

No wiggle on mine......except in the sandstorm









John


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## jetjane (Feb 8, 2007)

04SUPERDUTY said:


> did you have to strenghthen up your 5ers rear frame to tow your boat?


No, we didn't. My DH is comfortable with the strength of the frame as is for pulling our 2000lb/ 200lb tongue weight boat.


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## Herkdoctor (Dec 27, 2006)

04SUPERDUTY said:


> Does anyone have the new 31FQBHS and tow with a f 350? or oven just own a 31FQBHS? i need to know if you have any problems when towing having the trailer not really whip around but move or wiggle back and forth. its not real bad but still not what i want it to do.
> my truck is a 04 f 350, i have a rear sway bar and keep the tires at max of 65 psi.
> i keep the trailer tires at thier max of 65 also.
> the trailer sits nose high by about 2" or so.
> ...


I just got back to Abilene TX from the rally at Zion and my 31FQBHS stuck to the truck like glue no movement at all. I had the fresh water tank full and as those that were at the rally can attest DW had it loaded down. I also had the trailer tires at 65 psi.

Scott


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