# So Confused



## campfreak (Apr 3, 2008)

We have been shopping for a new TT & thought we found one, the Sydney 32BHDS. We were at a reputable dealer (some say the best) & were told that our 2006 Dodge Ram Quad-cab Big Horn Hemi/auto/3.92 Posi with 20" wheels could haul this TT with the installation of no delay electric brakes, a weight distribution hitch, & dual sway stabilizers. I placed calls to the manufacturer, Dodge, & a large hitch dealer here in Indy. All gave the go ahead. Searching posts here, was unable to locate info on this specific situation, however can't shake the feeling that this isn't a good idea. 
Dealer & Dodge both said max towing for this truck is 8500 lbs. Looking at the Outback website I find 2 different weights listed:
Weight: 7850 & 7695
Carrying capacity: 1750 & 2005
Hitch: 795
(Do you add all 3 together?)
Per Dodge with 3.92 Axle Ratio:
Can tow 8500 lbs.
Payload:1347
Curb Wt.: 5353
Curb Wt Front/Rear: 3120 lbs/3120 lbs
GAWR Front/Rear: 3900 lbs/ 3900 lbs
GCWR: 14000 lbs
We currently camp around Indiana which is fairly flat, but might want to venture out. We came here to see what seasoned TT owners have to say (we have outgrown our pop-up). Look forward to hearing from you all. Thanks!


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

The 32BHDS is a nice trailer. Unfortunately, it looks like you have a 1/2 ton truck (1500 series).
A good rough estimate of what to protect for would be the trailer weight plus the carryin capacity. That means you need 9700 lbs of tow capacity. 
There's another catch too. The empty hitch weight is 795, but based on what I hear, you should protect for a ~1000-1200 lb tounge weight which needs to be carried by your truck (through the WDH setup). Now, the payload on your truck is 1350 lbs, but that's with a 150lb driver and usually doesn't even include options.

Put these two things together, and it points to a smaller trailer







or a bigger truck!









Regardless, make sure your hitch is an Equal-i-zer, or a Reese Dual Cam (also called Straight Line) or equivalent. The dealer probably wants to install 2 friction sway control bars which are woefully inadequate for a trailer this size. Good luck and post any more questions!!!


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

FIRST OFF - WELCOME TO THE SITE !!

We own a 2008 32BHDS and HAD an 04 F150 HD towing, etc... It towed it OK with some struggles on power but the stability and power was NOT suitable for that trailer. My loaded 32BHDS is about 9200 lbs and tongue weight (empty tanks) is about 1100lbs. We upgraded (as we thought we might have to) to a 2008 F350 and are so happy we did. the towing experience is incredible.

You need ot look at your GVWR and GCVWR, not only your towing capacity. You will be over on all of these. remember to add in your passangers, gear, luggage, fuel, vehicle accessories, TT "stuff", EVERYTHING to get your GCVWR.

Good for you on checking the capacities first! if your ok with upgrading your truck then im sure you will love the 32BHDS but if your keeping the 1/2 ton, you shopuld look at something smaller. Somebody was just adding up the weights in a post a week ago or so for their Ford 1/2 ton. There might be some good tips in that topic.... CLICK HERE to see what he was looking in to and the weight ratings. Also read this site COMPLETELY about tow ratings, weights, etc... Lots of really good information located in the links on the left side......RV TOWING TIPS

we also use an Equil-i-zer 1200/12000 hitch in our setup. dont use a friction hitch for anything bigger than 24/26 feet.

GOOD LUCK!! Welcome to the family!


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Sayonara said:


> You need ot look at your GVRW and GCVWR, not only your towing capacity. You will be over on all of these. remember to add in your passangers, gear, luggage, fuel, vehicle accessories, TT "stuff", EVERYTHING to get your GCVWR.


Yep, you're right of course DT. I took a shortcut and used tow capacity.


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## Airboss (Jul 14, 2007)

Sayonara said:


> FIRST OFF - WELCOME TO THE SITE !!
> 
> We own a 2008 32BHDS and HAD an 04 F150 HD towing, etc... It towed it OK with some struggles on power but the stability and power was NOT suitable for that trailer. My loaded 32BHDS is about 9200 lbs and tongue weight (empty tanks) is about 1100lbs. We upgraded (as we thought we might have to) to a 2008 F350 and are so happy we did. the towing experience is incredible.
> 
> ...


x2!!! I completely agree!

Welcome to Outbackers.com







and be sure to let us know what new truck you end up with.


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

Agree. Not enough truck for that trailer, especially payload capacity. If you take your payload and subtract the dry weight of the hitch, you are left with 552 lbs. Everyone on this site will tell you the dry hitch weight is substantially under your actual loaded weight. You also have to account for your distribution hitch weight, weight of propane (a 30# tank holds 7 gal or 29.7 lbs. of propane, of course!), weight of battery, anything loaded in trailer contributing to hitch weight, weight of passengers and cargo carried in the truck, etc. It adds up fast.

Why not upgrade to a Dodge Cummins? I'm sure your local Dodge dealer has plenty of gas-guzzling trucks he needs to get rid of!









By the way, that's quite an upgrade going from a popup to a 32BHDS!


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

GoVols said:


> By the way, that's quite an upgrade going from a popup to a 32BHDS!


We thought the same thing....we went from a tent to the 32BHDS. *CULTURE SHOCK !!!*


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

The limitation of 1/2 ton trucks is not their "towing capacity" that many people will mostly focus on. It is their inherent limitation of the weight the truck itself can carry.

When you add up the tongue weight of the trailer, gas, truck accessories, and occupants, you will be over weight ON the truck. This trailer is in need of a 3/4 ton truck to pull it safely.


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## fspieg (Jul 31, 2006)

WELCOME!! I agree with everyone else. Been there did it didn't work. We started with exactly the same truck your looking at and it wouldn't begin to handle our TT. See signature. Not only will you not have sufficant load carrying capacity but you will suffer from a lack of power.Very expensive lesson for us.


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Hi campfreak
















to Outbackers! 

You're doing your homework...good for you!









Great advice here, hang in there...the perfect set up will happen soon enough


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## bradnjess (Mar 25, 2007)

fspieg said:


> Very expensive lesson for us.


Us to.


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

bradnjess said:


> Very expensive lesson for us.


Us to.
[/quote]
But just look at that beautiful truck!

you've got great taste btw


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## ColoradoChip (Jan 21, 2008)

bradnjess said:


> Very expensive lesson for us.


Us to.
[/quote]

x3


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

Ah yes the lessons we all have learned

And what is not a lesson soon turns to fever

Let just start in the spring of 2003 shall we









Start with a class c , go to a class a

Ditch class a and get a Burb and a 26rs

Truck can't pull trailer =get bigger truck









Got bigger truck=want bigger trailer

Have bigger trailer =love even bigger trailer

Get even bigger diesel truck to save fuel=DIESEL $$$4.10 gal









Now I might just hit reset and go back to a class c

I need help









John


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## ember (Jan 17, 2008)

Welcome to the family!!
We have towed for years, but never a TT til last year, and it is different than a construction trailer, or an equipment trailer. This site has been a HUGE help for towing info and an abundance of other things.
Ember


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

I agree with what everyone has said, in particular what California_Jim highlighted. You will run into issues with payload and sway problems. Honestly, if you are stuck with the truck and trailer, you need to look at one of these HitchHog. It will help out enormously. It has been designed to help specifically with your situation. They aren't for sale yet but will be soon and the inventor is a member here - Colorado~Dirtbikers. You can pm him for more information. He has been working on them for a very long time and is quite close to being able to sell them.

If you don't get one, I would suggest, like others have said, get a smaller trailer or a bigger truck.

-CC


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## malibutay (Sep 5, 2007)

I do need to add something about payload and HD hitches. It seems most forget that the HD does close to a 1/3 split of the weight. This is theory but is close if done correctly though. For instance a 900lb tongue weight should put 300lbs on rear and 300lbs on front of TV and 300lbs on trailer. That Equals 600lb on TV not 900lbs which frees up some Payload also if you are already going by carry capacity of the trailer while would you still need to add more gear. 2000Lbs is quite a bit of stuff so if you did go beyond that you should only include passengers not add it twice. But I do agree this is too much trailer for a ram 1500 but not because of payload capacity.


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## dlm maintenance (Apr 1, 2008)

Sayonara said:


> By the way, that's quite an upgrade going from a popup to a 32BHDS!


We thought the same thing....we went from a tent to the 32BHDS. *CULTURE SHOCK !!!*
[/quote]
Welcome, Like you I've gone from a pop-up to a 30BHDS. I've pulled smaller work trailers for many yrs. Wanted to say m0ney by picking it up from Lakeshore myself. (Mi to La) Got broke in right. 1 hr from dlr with TT sway(eqlz out of adjustment) my 1St snow storm. SCARYYYYY!








I suggest you do some test drives with some TT first.
I feel for you guys that live in the cold.

Darren


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## NHRA Larry (Jan 30, 2008)

campfreak said:


> We have been shopping for a new TT & thought we found one, the Sydney 32BHDS. We were at a reputable dealer (some say the best) & were told that our 2006 Dodge Ram Quad-cab Big Horn Hemi/auto/3.92 Posi with 20" wheels could haul this TT with the installation of no delay electric brakes, a weight distribution hitch, & dual sway stabilizers. I placed calls to the manufacturer, Dodge, & a large hitch dealer here in Indy. All gave the go ahead. Searching posts here, was unable to locate info on this specific situation, however can't shake the feeling that this isn't a good idea.
> Dealer & Dodge both said max towing for this truck is 8500 lbs. Looking at the Outback website I find 2 different weights listed:
> Weight: 7850 & 7695
> Carrying capacity: 1750 & 2005
> ...


I tow a 30RLS with a 05 Ram 1500, quad cab with 4.10 gears, with the factory tow package. I had a lot of sway problems with it utilizing it's 17 inch "P" rated tires. I have installed a superchip and changed the P rated tires to 10 ply LT tires and solved almost all the problems. I also installed a cold air system, but de-installed it because of the noise. Gas mileage is bad (to say the least) but not enough to wish for a diesel. Good luck with it, I think you'll be OK, but am concerned with those 20" small sidewalled tires.

NHRA Larry


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## campfreak (Apr 3, 2008)

Thanks everyone for all the information & the warm welcome! I am still puzzled why Dodge & the TT dealer say that its no problem to pull the 32 with my 1500







. Keeping my family safe is my number one priority (#2 is not racking up any truck repair bills!)! What size/limit should I shoot for? Looks like the 31RQS might be the same situation as the 32BHD!? Any suggestions? Sherry


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Length wise, it seems the 26 and below models (under 28') are pulled sucessfully with a 1/2 ton truck. I have a 28RSDS (30') and have a F350 on order based on my experiences last year







. People do do it successfully every day, but the Tail will wag the dog!!!

Weight wise, you need to check for each trailer. In the OB line, they set most at a similar GWR, so you need to use a little common sense for how much you pack. If you would like input, post the trailer on here, and there are probably several people who have weighed theirs and can give you a good idea.


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## campfreak (Apr 3, 2008)

Hubby went to 4X4 shop & posed this dilemma of pulling the 32BDH with our 1500. The result? Add 3000 lb supersprings which will give us a towing capacity of 11,500 lbs along with a load range "E" tire to convert to HD. How does this sound? Anybody try it?


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

campfreak said:


> Hubby went to 4X4 shop & posed this dilemma of pulling the 32BDH with our 1500. The result? Add 3000 lb supersprings which will give us a towing capacity of 11,500 lbs along with a load range "E" tire to convert to HD. How does this sound? Anybody try it?


You definitely could change the springs and put on LT tires to beef up your truck. The biggest issue IMO is you will be putting a lot of strain on a vehicle that just isn't made to tow a heavy and long trailer.

Also, no matter what you do to increase the ability of the truck to tow a heavy load, you are still liable if you are over the truck's GVW. From the specs you gave, the available payload is approximately 1350#, add the hitch weight which is around 1k, that leaves you with 350 for passengers and gear, not much room before you bump into the GVW.

Many here, not all, but many have found that after spending a good amount of cash on aftermarket products to get their 1/2 ton truck to pull a large trailer comfortably they would have been better off putting that money towards a heavier tow vehicle. That's one reason we have the 21RS, we originally had a yukon and after a scary lesson with too big of a trailer, we opted for a smaller trailer instead of a bigger truck

Two options IMO, heavier truck or smaller trailer.

Mike


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## CTDOutback06 (Apr 16, 2007)

I had a 2004 Dodge Ram 1500 with the Hemi, 3.92, 20" rims, factory tow package and we had a 2006 Coachmen 25RKS TT that weighed around 7500 lbs loaded and we struggled to tow it, I would definately NOT recomend buying a TT as large as you are looking at with the truck you have. I ended up buying a 2006 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD and then we ended up buying the Outback Fifth Wheel.


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## Lady Di (Oct 28, 2005)

Welcome to Outbackers!









So glad you are doing your homework first.

Better to get a camper that is definitely lightweight enough for your truck than to overload your truck.

We upgraded from a LD 250 to a SD 250 because we wanted to travel and weren't sure about the LD truck and mountains. We traveled some mountains last year that made us glad we upgraded.


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## malibutay (Sep 5, 2007)

I have the 2000lb super springs and they work great. They don't start working until they are under load and they really help when big rigs pass and they really stabilize everything.

My TT is 30' has a dry weight of 6000lb; I at max load 1500lbs of stuff and have a tongue weight of approximately 900lb-1000lbs loaded. My 1500 has pulled it nicely on every trip we have taken which some have been as far as 600+ miles one direction. Lastly I haven't experience any sway what so ever.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

campfreak said:


> Hubby went to 4X4 shop & posed this dilemma of pulling the 32BDH with our 1500. The result? Add 3000 lb supersprings which will give us a towing capacity of 11,500 lbs along with a load range "E" tire to convert to HD. How does this sound? Anybody try it?


Am i missing something here? people are selling springs and claiming the tow ratings of the trucks go up by thousands??? like i said, maybe im missing something but im not buying that. maybe these springs help the payload and stability but they dont transform the tow vehicle.

Let me add... BEEN THERE DONE THAT !!! the 32BHDS behind our 1/2 ton was not a comfortable OR SAFE ride in our opinion. plus no matter what the guy says about the springs, your engine and trans will not be happy.....

Just my .02. again.


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## malibutay (Sep 5, 2007)

I agree with you Sayonara. These springs are designed in my opinion on 1/2 tons especially to help those long leaf springs that are made for comfort just like over loads on 3/4 and 1-ton trucks. They help stabilize and level but they don't increase capacities or capability since you will still have the same axles and the same drive drain.

I have the Hemi which is also in the 2500 so I am not worried about power but I know the suspension and drive drain is not as beefy so that is a concern. Lastly the WD hitch is designed to distribute the payload weight on the truck and trailer. So if you have 900lbs distributed so that 600lbs or 700lbs is on the truck and you also have overload springs also I think it will only help with leveling and keeping those big rigs from swinging you all over the place.


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Sherry - the tow capacity of 1/2 ton trucks has gone up in recent years as manufacturers strive to out-market each other. Regardless, it is still a 1/2 ton truck. If it were me in your situation, I would look at something in the 25RSS range (was just discontinued). This trailer is as Nathan suggests, in the 26ft range. Get a Prodigy brake controller and consider an Equalizer brand hitch (or Reese dual cam hp) and you will be in fine shape with a trailer that length or smaller. Your TT dealer is trying to sell you the trailer. Bear that in mind when he tells you that you can pull it no problem with whatever various gadgets you can add. I wouldn't do it and I wouldn't pull anything larger than the TT I currently have with my 1/2 ton truck. Springs etc. can artificially raise the limits but you are still missing all of the other pieces that go into making a heavy duty truck, truly heavy duty (engine, transmission, rear axle size, receiver strength, front/rear suspension, frame etc. etc. etc. etc.).

-CC


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Also do not forget those 20" wheels cost you 1000 pounds in towing as they change the 3.92 actual gear ratio to about 3.7 due to the larger circumference of the tires over the stock 17".


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## malibutay (Sep 5, 2007)

I have a problem with the whole 20" tire you lose 1000lbs thing. Every official dodge towing guide I have ever seen for 2006 doesn't mention anything about 20" wheels having an effect on towing capacity. I also have not been given a good reason for the 1000lb drop. It can't be gear ratio because the 3.55 is 1000lbs less so it can't be 3.7 or it would be less of a weight difference. Trailer Life has put this out but with no explanation. For ford, Trailer Life says this: Note: Reduce
maximum trailer weight by 500 LB for models with 18 or 20-inch wheels. Why 500lb for ford but 1000lb for Dodge? Maybe a conspiracy?


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

malibutay said:


> I have a problem with the whole 20" tire you lose 1000lbs thing. Every official dodge towing guide I have ever seen for 2006 doesn't mention anything about 20" wheels having an effect on towing capacity. I also have not been given a good reason for the 1000lb drop. It can't be gear ratio because the 3.55 is 1000lbs less so it can't be 3.7 or it would be less of a weight difference. Trailer Life has put this out but with no explanation. For ford, Trailer Life says this: Note: Reduce
> maximum trailer weight by 500 LB for models with 18 or 20-inch wheels. Why 500lb for ford but 1000lb for Dodge? Maybe a conspiracy?


Part of it has to do with the added weight of the larger rims and tires, and part of it I believe has to do with some higher math involving ratios and diameters I don't understand myself.


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

malibutay said:


> I have a problem with the whole 20" tire you lose 1000lbs thing. Every official dodge towing guide I have ever seen for 2006 doesn't mention anything about 20" wheels having an effect on towing capacity. I also have not been given a good reason for the 1000lb drop. It can't be gear ratio because the 3.55 is 1000lbs less so it can't be 3.7 or it would be less of a weight difference. Trailer Life has put this out but with no explanation. For ford, Trailer Life says this: Note: Reduce
> maximum trailer weight by 500 LB for models with 18 or 20-inch wheels. Why 500lb for ford but 1000lb for Dodge? Maybe a conspiracy?


Do what you want but the larger rims cost you 1000 pounds of your tow rating, Trailer Life did not just make up that number. It is weight and effective gear ratio effect combined.

Below is from the Dodge site.

"Towing capacities may vary. Consult your dealer to for full details on the towing capabilities of the vehicle."

By the way the grammatical error was on there also.

This all means no matter what the brochure says the towing capacity is, there is always a little foot note that says things like "properly equipped" or "with 150 pound driver only". All the little things add up and in big bold numbers it says towing capacity 9000 pounds{1} That little tag on the end says you will look for hours to find out that it is really 7,000 pounds the way the truck is equipped and sitting in the drive way with the family and a bed full of firewood and other stuff. Dodge, Ford and Chevy are all vague for a reason just like the trailer companies seldom put the loaded weight of the trailer in big bold print as that would mean people would hesitate. Trailer Life just put the information in an easy to read and cross reference form.

If none of this changes your mind on the actual towing capability loss, then please tell us at what size tire you would consider that the towing is affected?


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## NJMikeC (Mar 29, 2006)

It isn't the wheels specifically instead it is the diameter of the tires but it stands to reason that often bigger wheels have larger diameter tires. 20" and 18" wheels are usually garbage for towing. Those larger sizes often have a higher aspect ratio which means they usually often have a lower load rating.

The formula is New Gear Ratio= old tire diameter/new tire diameter *(gear ratio).

Said more simply, increase the size of your tires and you decrease your gear ratio, GCWR ,and towing capacity.


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## malibutay (Sep 5, 2007)

NJMikeC said:


> It isn't the wheels specifically instead it is the diameter of the tires but it stands to reason that often bigger wheels have larger diameter tires. 20" and 18" wheels are usually garbage for towing. Those larger sizes often have a higher aspect ratio which means they usually often have a lower load rating.
> 
> The formula is New Gear Ratio= old tire diameter/new tire diameter *(gear ratio).
> 
> Said more simply, increase the size of your tires and you decrease your gear ratio, GCWR ,and towing capacity.


According to the 2008 Trailer Life ratings guide "Wheel sizes continue to grow commensurate
with their popularity, with some tow vehicles offering 20-inch-diameter wheels as factory options. However, using a larger wheel
and lower-profile tire means a smaller air cushion and lower tire sidewall, to the extent that tow ratings generally drop whenever the wheel
size increases. Be sure to read the fine print on the packaging carefully."

I quess sidewall hieght is there reason?


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## 1jeep (Jul 24, 2007)

I had a 2005 dodge hemi with the 17's and 3:92 gears it was rated for 8500lbs, the 20" rims according to my old manual decreases the towing capacity by 1000lbs bringing yours to 7500lbs.

Now as you can see in my signature i am towing that trailer with a 1/2 ton that is rated to tow 10,400lbs. Next year i am planning to buy a 3/4 ton truck, not because i dont have enough power, but once i drop that trailer on i run out of cargo capacity. My trailer on average weighs 8250lbs and has a 980lb tongue weight, i am packing LIGHT....as though i have to pull it myself. I am certain your dodge will have the same cargo capacity issues and also it most likely will be over the tow rating.

Good luck with your decisions and i would at least ask the dealer for a test tow first.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

malibutay said:


> I have a problem with the whole 20" tire you lose 1000lbs thing. Every official dodge towing guide I have ever seen for 2006 doesn't mention anything about 20" wheels having an effect on towing capacity. I also have not been given a good reason for the 1000lb drop. It can't be gear ratio because the 3.55 is 1000lbs less so it can't be 3.7 or it would be less of a weight difference. Trailer Life has put this out but with no explanation. For ford, Trailer Life says this: Note: Reduce
> maximum trailer weight by 500 LB for models with 18 or 20-inch wheels. Why 500lb for ford but 1000lb for Dodge? Maybe a conspiracy?


Ford calls out the 500lb reduction in their Towing Guide in the fine print at the bottom. I suspect Dodge does the same somewhere.

Edited: I should add that this can only be called a conspiracy if you can count the laws of Physics as a conspiracy.








I just can't beleive all the restrictions people like Newton have put on us!!!


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