# Learned Two New Things About My Outback



## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

OK, so I thought I knew everything about my 2004 26 RS (aside from the electrical stuff several of you mumble about on this site). Well, I learned two new things on our 17th trip.

1. We are dry camping at 10,000 feet and everything works perfectly on our first night. Nighttime temps drop into the mid 40's but we stay warm with the furnace running on battery power. The second night comes along and I do the same thing...set the thermostat to 64 degrees which keeps the Outback inside right around 71 degrees (go figure). Except this night, the furnace never fires up. I wake up about 4 AM a little chilly, and wonder why I have been sleeping so well despite it being cold in the camper. I realize I have been sleeping well because the furnace is not going on and off.

Now I know I am running a little low on propane, but the stove works, and the fridge is still on Auto. I turn the hot water heater on gas and hear it fire up. All interior cabin lights work and the battery reads 1/3. I turn the furnace off, then on, and it fires up! For 10 seconds. Then it shuts off. I reset the hand-held controller and try again. Furnace fires up, runs for 10 seconds, then shuts off. I press the "Furn Emer" button on the ceiling unit. The furnace starts up, runs for 10 seconds, then stops. I give up, cover up the kids, and go to bed.

Anyone know the cause (without looking in the manual?). I'll tell you all tomorrow morning unless someone posts the answer before then.

2. You know how I always unscrew the hot water heater drain plug (plus the low point drains) before I head home? I got to thinking...there must be a way to drain the hot water heater without unscrewing the nylon drain plug. Ha! There is a way. Anyone know? And no, the answer is not "unscrew the two low point drain plugs." I do that already.

See you all tomorrow morning. You smarties will figure it out.

Randy


----------



## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

And don't forget to answer in the form of a question!

I'll take Outback trivia for $500, Alex...









Happy Trails,
Doug


----------



## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

OUTBACK 101...

You gotta love it!


----------



## Humpty (Apr 20, 2005)

Ok, I never drain the hot water tank, and it will be a LOOOOOONG time before I need to run the heat.

But, I can't wait...........Tell me.......tell me....


----------



## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

what will be interesting to find out is if you put a fuly charge battery on will the furnace work again??

for the life of me I thought i read somewhere that the circuit board would not work if the battery dropped below a certain battery amperage -- for the protection of the motor..

i was thinking about the heater today -- we had a high of 98 and a low of 84 -- burrrrrr


----------



## GenesRUs (Oct 11, 2004)

Well, let's see, here are my hair-brained guesses and/or feedback:

1. We had a similar furnace problem on our first trip in our OB. Turn on the heater from the remote or the emergency button, blower comes on for about 30 seconds, then everything shuts down. Turned out to be a faulty circuit board. Had it replaced under warranty and everything is a-ok.

This summer we ran out of propane in one cylinder, switched to a fresh cylinder, and had trouble starting the furnace - similar symptoms as yours. It eventually went back to running normally.

When we had our crappy pop-up, the battery would always drain by morning. At that point the heater woudl try to come on, the blower would run for a few seconds, and then everything would shut down.

So, my guesses - low battery or low propane.

2. You drained the water heater when you drained the main tank, and also left a hot water spigot runnning in the camper?


----------



## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

I would go with a failed temperature sensor. Either the flame detector or the fire box over temperature probe. To get fire you must have duct air flow detection so it gets past that point.


----------



## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

If your furnance worked the night before and than it only tries to start. It can only be one of 2 things.

Low propane - but you have dual tanks.... so I gues you alreay have tried this one. My guess is... low battery.

The furnace is trying to start and than shutsdown because there is not enough air flow. The fan is not moving enough air, so it is shutdown down for safety reasons.

Try plugging in your TV. Next turn on your furnance. If it works your battery is low.

Do I win the $500









Thor


----------



## Sasha (Apr 13, 2004)

To drain the hot water heater there is a pressure relief valve that will squirt water all over you if you are standing in the right spot. If you keep unscrewing the drain plug, you will end up having to replace it sooner then needed.


----------



## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

> This summer we ran out of propane in one cylinder, switched to a fresh cylinder, and had trouble starting the furnace - similar symptoms as yours. It eventually went back to running normally.


Genesrus

Do you have an auto switchover on your tanks?? Ours came with one.

Another way to drain the water heater?? Other than the plug, you've got me.

Furnace, maybe a stuck sail switch????????

Mike


----------



## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Hey,

What kind of a guy gives us hints to something and won't answer the question right away.









Mark


----------



## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

I thought maybe the moons were out of alignment, Randy could not fix something. Randy is always so good at knowing the answers that I thought maybe he took his trailer completely apart and put it back together. But all is well, he keeps on learning and keeps on helping the rest of us. Thanks Randy









Looking forward to these helpful hints.

John


----------



## hurricaneplumber (Apr 12, 2004)

Upgrade to dual 6 volts and go back to sleep.

Leave the puter at home, relax for once you addicted Outbackeraholic hot water tank drainer


----------



## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

On question #1, Ghosty, GenesRUs, and Thor got it. Low battery power. After I plugged in the Yukon to the OB, the furnace ran fine. 1/3 power not good enough to run the furnace.

On Question #2, there are two steps. First, remove all drain plug caps (like I said, I do that already). On the low point drains, some water will come out, then stop. The newly discovered step? Open the pressure release valve. Water will pour from the low point drains, draining all system lines and the hot water heater.

Thank you all for playing.

Randy


----------



## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Randy, how did you come to find out the HW tank drained using that method? That will definitly save wear and tear on the plug. Good tip.

John


----------



## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

hurricaneplumber said:


> Upgrade to dual 6 volts and go back to sleep.
> 
> Leave the puter at home, relax for once you addicted Outbackeraholic hot water tank drainer
> 
> ...


Next year, you got it. We have been doing so much dry camping lately (since that is where the best sites in Colorado are!) that I will do either the dual 6 or 12 volt mod before camping season next year.

And the puter does not come along while camping. Without Internet, no need.

Randy


----------



## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

Oh, those shortcuts, Randy.

Well yeah, we all knew those!









Good tips. Gotta love this forum









Happy Trails,
Doug


----------



## dwest369 (Feb 2, 2004)

Thanks, I learn something new everyday. Just have to find a place to keep all these great tips.


----------



## Thor (Apr 7, 2004)

$500 - Paypal will work for me









If not do we at least get a gold star?

Thor


----------



## jodynbarry (Aug 22, 2005)

At the risk of appearing dumb - WHY do you drain the hot water tank? 
Jody


----------



## MaeJae (May 12, 2005)

jodynbarry said:


> At the risk of appearing dumb - WHY do you drain the hot water tank?
> Jody
> [snapback]51086[/snapback]​


That was my question too???
Is it because you may have a long period without camping? and don't want it sitting in there? or the weight ?









Thanks,
MaeJae


----------



## schrade (May 5, 2005)

At this risk of me sounding dumb also.

Why Dual six volts over the dual 12volt setup I have now?


----------



## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

tdvffjohn said:


> Randy, how did you come to find out the HW tank drained using that method? That will definitly save wear and tear on the plug. Good tip.
> 
> John
> [snapback]50794[/snapback]​


John, I determined this by looking at the plumbing going in and out of the tank. Fresh water enters the tank near the bottom and hot water goes out the top. My thinking was if I open low-point drains, why won't the water exit the tank? Pressure release...that did it.

Randy


----------



## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

MaeJae said:


> jodynbarry said:
> 
> 
> > At the risk of appearing dumb - WHY do you drain the hot water tank?Â
> ...


Why drain the hot water tank? Because standing water gets nasty in a hurry. Pour yourself a glass of water in the morning and drink it later that night. I notice a difference. Draining the water system will limit the growth of nasties in my entire water system (at least that is my belief). When kept dry, it stays cleaner, longer.

Probably the same reason we give our pets fresh water twice a day. I don't just add water to Carly's water dish. Twice a day it is discarded and fresh water replaced.

Randy


----------



## KosinTrouble (Jul 18, 2005)

Here is my stupid question. I am too lazy to go look in my manual.

So where is the Pressure Release Valve you talk about on the 26rs? To empy my tanks, I always end up going underneath the trailer and unscrewing the 2 valves under there and I always notice the water just trickles out.

Kos


----------



## tdvffjohn (Mar 10, 2005)

Inside the outside access. It has a xmall lever on it. It also looks like the one on your home hot water heater

John


----------



## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

KosinTrouble said:


> Here is my stupid question. I am too lazy to go look in my manual.
> 
> So where is the Pressure Release Valve you talk about on the 26rs? To empy my tanks, I always end up going underneath the trailer and unscrewing the 2 valves under there and I always notice the water just trickles out.
> 
> ...


Hey Kos, just curious...how have you been filling your hot water heater without opening the pressure release valve? Have you been filling the fresh tank and then turning on the pump, then opening a faucet?

Randy


----------



## Guest (Aug 23, 2005)

Castle Rock Outbackers said:


> KosinTrouble said:
> 
> 
> > Here is my stupid question.Â I am too lazy to go look in my manual.Â
> ...


 I may be dumb here also but, but, but if the OB is stored for long periods of time I can see doing this. However, if new (which ours is) and is only been used few times so far this summer I cannot still see draining it so much.(then my questions is... how often or how many times per summer)???

I can see doing it in winterizing it. Also it is something like the hot water tank in your home (that you are supposed to drain throughout the yr to give it more life and keep nasty stuff off the bottom). 
Judy & Bob & 2blackdogs


----------



## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

OK, Randy, you got me.....................I have never used the fresh water tank, have always used campground/city water. I've never done anyting to my hot water heater pressure relief valve, or any other valve. I've always had hot water. Am I missing somehnting here? I always wait a few minutes before turning on the gas or electric to the hot water (supposedly to let the hot water tank fill with water before I hit it with power). Huh?









Mark


----------



## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

Just hooking up to city water will not fill your hot water tank. You need to release the air in the lines somehow, right? Maybe that happens slowly, but I turbo-charge the process. Afterall, if you want water to displace air, where is the air to go? If we have air-tight (and thus water-tight) plumbing systems, how can you fill your tanks without moving air out? Even on the fresh water tank inlet there is a "release valve". When filling your fresh tank, you should feel the air exiting through this valve. When you winterize, you remove the screen and, yep, push it in to release air in the line until antifreeze runs out.

After hooking up to city water, I immediately open the pressure release valve on the hot water tank. While water fills, if I close and re-open it, I hear the air pressure releasing from the tank (pressure builds when closed, releases when open). I know when the hot water tank is full when water begins flowing from the pressure release valve.

Then I ask my DW to open interior faucets. That clears air from the lines. Since I never use city water while camping (I don't have a pressure regulator), then next thing I do is fill the fresh water tank. Now I have a full hot tank, full lines, and full fresh tank. Time to camp!

Judy & Bob, it is just a personal preference of mine to drain the hot water heater each time. Like I said earlier, when dry, less chance for nasties to grow or the water to smell funny.

Randy


----------



## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

Yea...I found out about battery power and the furnace in 2002. I went camping late season, and the furnace quit in the middle of the night. I ended up hooking the pigtail to the tow vehicle and run the furnace until trailer was warm. (the auto start came in handy) I could start/stop the truck from the trailer. If I fell asleep, the truck would shut off by itself.

I upgraded to 2-6 volt (golf cart) batteries right away. This gives you more running time. (more capacity than 2-12 volts)

I can't seem to get the 12 Volt Side of Life website to load today, or I'd send you there.


----------



## jodynbarry (Aug 22, 2005)

Thanks for the details Randy. I'll check with Barry to see if he wants to do this. We don't drink any of the water in our Outback (bring a couple large containers of drinking water - this is used for cooking too, for the dogs, etc.) But, I do use it to wash dishes and to shower, so nice smelling water is a good thing! We do use city water when filling our tanks and it is chlorinated, so maybe that helps? I am also thinking that a water filter might help too! 
Jody


----------



## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

NDJollyMon said:


> I upgraded to 2-6 volt (golf cart) batteries right away. This gives you more running time. (more capacity than 2-12 volts)
> [snapback]51231[/snapback]​


Along with installing radial tires and a receiver hitch for the 5-bike rack, the dual 6-volt mod is on tap for camping season 2006. Two years on the Bias Ply tires is enough for me.

Randy


----------



## schrade (May 5, 2005)

Does anyone have the two 6V mod outlined anywhere?


----------



## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

I only drain the hot water tank when I winterize, personal preference but it is not needed during the season.

The cold water comes in the bottom and the hot water goes out the top. The hot water outlet is on the same level as the relief valve. No matter how you vent the tank, via the relief or a faucet there will remain a air pocket in the top of the tank. This is to help take up pressure changes as the water heats since the tank is a closed system.


----------



## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

CamperAndy said:


> No matter how you vent the tank, via the relief or a faucet there will remain a air pocket in the top of the tank. This is to help take up pressure changes as the water heats since the tank is a closed system.
> [snapback]51300[/snapback]​


That's true, there is no way to fill the tank 100%, but that's OK, and a good thing as you explain. My point is only that I found a way to drain the tank (except for a little that remains at the bottom) after each trip without removing the nylon plug.

When filling the hot tank via city water, I do not see how it will fill without opening the pressure release valve (or turning on a faucet) while the tank fills up 6 gallons. mswalt claims to hook up, wait a few minutes, then flip on the hot water heater. NO faucet open and no valve work. I don't see how that is possible.

Randy


----------



## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

Castle Rock Outbackers said:


> CamperAndy said:
> 
> 
> > No matter how you vent the tank, via the relief or a faucet there will remain a air pocket in the top of the tank. This is to help take up pressure changes as the water heats since the tank is a closed system.
> ...


The tank will not fill unless a valve (relief or faucet) is opened. So unless the tank is already full it is not advisable to turn on a heat source. You got my vote on the not possible to fill without venting.


----------



## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

Right! So given that, mswalt must never drain his hot water heater. If he did, by now (if he still had the 26 RS), it would be fried. With water in the hot water tank, he can connect to city water and start camping. Of course, when his trailer was NEW, he had to do the faucet thing at least once.

Or maybe the dealer had the tank already full at PDI...which happened to my neighbor. I trained him on filling the hot water tank by opening the pressure release valve, and when he did, water immediately came out. It was already full when he picked it up.

Randy


----------



## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Randy,

I'm looking forward to your tutorial in October!

Mark


----------



## JOELs28BHS (Apr 25, 2005)

Hi, I'm an aircraft mechanic and some aircraft have 24 volt elect. systems. To get the 24 volts required we take two 12 volt batts and hook them in series. To get 12 volts from two 6 volt batts you have to hook them in series also. This means the ground wire or the black negitive (---) post of batt #1 goes to the frame of the TT, the positive lead or the red (+) goes to the Black or negitive (---) post of batt. #2 and the red positive (+) post goes to the circut breaker mounted on the front of the TT.

Batt #1 Negitive post ---------------------------frame

Batt #1 Positive post -------------------------- Negitive post of Batt #2

Batt. # 2 Positive post-------------------------- to the auto resetting fuse
on the front of the TT

This will give you 12 volts from 2ea. 6 volt batts.


----------



## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

I have a pic in my other computer of my 6 volt set up.


----------



## schrade (May 5, 2005)

NDJollyMon said:


> I have a pic in my other computer of my 6 volt set up.
> [snapback]51844[/snapback]​


Jolly that would help greatly

Thanks,
Schrade


----------



## NDJollyMon (Aug 22, 2003)

Here is the mod pic: (in my gallery as well) I couldn't find the pic, so I ran out and snapped another one. (excuse the messy OUTBACK!)

Battery on left is battery 1

Battery on right is battery 2

Hook up:
Battery 1...
Hook line from OUTBACK frame (black in photo) to (+).
Hook line from battery 1 (-) to battery 2 (+). (black in photo, this is the line connecting the two batteries.

Battery 2...
Hook line from trailer tongue frame to (-). (white in photo)


----------



## begood (Jun 9, 2004)

Castle Rock Outbackers said:


> ... Since I never use city water while camping (I don't have a pressure regulator)...
> [snapback]51193[/snapback]​


My stupid question is :

while camping i always used city water (always had full hookup) but i don't have a pressure regulator. Is it wrong? am i going to have trouble?









thank's


----------



## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

begood,

It depends on the pressure at the campground. I always use my regulator at first, but if the water pressure isn't strong enough, I take it off. So far, no problems.

Mark


----------

