# Checking In ...



## BirminghamRTR (Oct 8, 2009)

Hello all. My family currently camps in a folding trailer. It is a Fleetwood Avalon and as far as pop ups go it is awesome. Dual axels, hardside bathroom, oven, microwave. Mac Daddy of pop ups. We love it!!! However with two tweenage girls privacy has become an issue for them and having their own space for them and their friends is an issue now. Wanting to extend our camping years with them as long as possible we are looking at TT's. After a few months of research we have narrowed our search down to basically three, all Keystones:

Laredo 291TG
Laredo 303TG
Sydney 310BHS

My wife and I both want an outside kitchen. The grill and sink on the Outbacks is very nice and we had almost decided on the Sydney ... until we saw the 291TG with the full kitchen on the back curb side. But my girls absolutely love the floor plan of the 310BHS. Then we saw the 303TG which basically has the 310BHS floor plan with the outside kitchen. So that is where we are right now.

I am looking for opinions and input especially on outside kitchens. Also, Keystone in General as well as Outback and Laredo lines. As far as TT's go from Keystone, I consider them both the tops as far as floor plans and amenities but I have not been an owner.

I really, really enjoy Outbackers.com. You guys and a Jayco forum I have "lurked" at are the best most positive sites I have found online. One specific keystone site almost convinced me to not get an RV of any type and buy a timeshare ...  ..jk. Even if I get a Laredo I may still lurk because there are some fantastic threads and info some of which can be transposed to other brands and models as well.

Thanks again and I look forward to your responses.


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## hyewalt34 (May 9, 2004)

I am honored to be the first to welcome you to Outbackers!!!

Walter


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## Ridgway-Rangers (Apr 18, 2008)

Welcome. 
I have an 06 27RSDS but we love







our outside kitchen. 80% of our cooking is done out there. You will not regret getting the Outback!








Brian


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

The OB has a very nice exterior kitchen. That Laredo has an INCREDIBLE exterior kitchen (sorry everyone, but it does)!!! Now all three trailers you are looking at are BIG. Most of us would recommend a 3/4 ton truck to pull any of these, so please keep that in mind when running your budget.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

Welcome...welcome...welcome.

Before I begin, let me say that regardless of the trailer you buy, you're more than welcome to stick around here. We're a bunch of Outbackers and "SOB's" (Some Other Brand) but we all enjoy camping and sharing our experiences.

Now, I was kinda in the same situation you're in now. We have 2 boys and wanted to give them "their space". I looked long and hard at the models you've list, but the outside kitchen just wasn't that important to us. I never saw one in person, but I questioned having 2x the stuff to cook in and out of the trailer. The awning does not cover the cook area, but the door looks like it hangs out over the area....which makes me think you might hit your head on it.

I know you already have 3 trailers on your mind, but take a minute and check out the 301BQ. We just bought ours in June and we LOVE it. This layout gives both the kids and the parents a private area. With the queen bed out in the 301BQ there is an amazing amount of space. This layout also gives the kids 4 bunks, so each kids could bring a friend and there are plenty of beds in "their area" (vs. being on the couch or the table)

We went into a 310BHS and the back area for the kids is VERY nice....however the adult "room" was very very tight. You have no space to really go in that room and change or walk around. I expect that is the same with the 291TG and the 303TG....just not a lot of space available with the bed in that position vs on a slide out.

Where are you from? What truck do you have? Hopefully it it a BIG truck and can safely tow these trailers.

Looking forward to hearing back from you. I'd be HAPPY to answer any questions you might have one the 301BQ. Check out the link in my sig file to see some of my mods to the 301BQ and a lot of pictures.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

Oregon_Camper said:


> ... I never saw one in person, but I questioned having 2x the stuff to cook in and out of the trailer. The awning does not cover the cook area, but the door looks like it hangs out over the area....which makes me think you might hit your head on it.
> ...


Acutally we saw one at the camper show last weekend. The door must be plenty high. I don't remember how high, but I walked under it and I'm 6'3" so it must be above that.


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## BirminghamRTR (Oct 8, 2009)

I currently have a 2007 Tundra CrewMax with the 5.7l engine. It tows the 5400 pound popup like it isnt there. I have run all the numbers and realize I am on the edge. I have upgraded my P tires to LT and have added the RoadMaster Active Suspension as well (Supersprings were an option as well but I found a local source for the Roadmaster AS). I currently on have a friction sway bar but will get at a minimum an Equilizer for the new TT (another thread discussion). All these things considered the TV with the tongue weight is as I said right on the line (tires and rear axle ok) and the TT is 500 to 1000 below max for towing at the TT max capacity numbers. I am still looking at some used diesel options for the tow vehicle but the Tundra handles so well as a daily driver I hate to trade her in. What I need is a Tundra with a diesel ...


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## BirminghamRTR (Oct 8, 2009)

OregonCamper: We are from Birmingham, Alabama. I hear you on the tight floorplan for the "adult area" ... my DW points that out as well ... but the 303 and the 310 you the second entrance thru the bathroom as well. We go at least twice a year to the beach and that would be awesome to have the second entrance as a "mud" room so to speak to keep sand at a minimum in the TT.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

WELCOME !!! Enjoy the search. Fun times ahead.
Stick around with whatever you end up buying, your more than welcome here.


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## BirminghamRTR (Oct 8, 2009)

OregonCamper: Nevermind ... I see from your web page it does have a second entrance although from the Keystone-Outback page I thought that it was a window ...


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

BirminghamRTR said:


> OregonCamper: Nevermind ... I see from your web page it does have a second entrance although from the Keystone-Outback page I thought that it was a window ...


I've told Tim (VP of the Outback division) to change that floor-plan picture, as we thought the exact same thing. And they don't give you any pictures showing it is a door.

You really need to see the 301BQ to get a feel for just how much space it offers. We have cabinets that are empty, as we don't have enough stuff to fill them...yet.

The space under the bed is HUGE....I mean HUGE!!!


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## BirminghamRTR (Oct 8, 2009)

On the three we are looking at (291,303 and 310) internal storage is the #1 negative although a close second is space in the masterbed room. Having the flip-around LCD is a plus in all three floor plans but the outside kitchen really is a big factor for us. Microwave, fridge AND stove plus cooking related storage outside is attractive to DW and me. The floor plan of the 301BQ is nice as well and the awning is larger covering both entrances.


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## Oregon_Camper (Sep 13, 2004)

It appears you are pretty sold on the outside kitchen (which, looks really nice







) however, we have found that using a table, up against the side of the Outback does a great job of holding our stuff while we cook on the outside stove. I have a cooler right there (great for grabbing a cold one while I cook...or maybe two colds ones). This give us the flexibility to move it to another location if needed. The table was about $20 at Costco and lays on the queen bed during travel.

Here is a picture of how it looks, but I'm not cooking during the picture.


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## Nathan (Jan 2, 2007)

BirminghamRTR said:


> I currently have a 2007 Tundra CrewMax with the 5.7l engine. It tows the 5400 pound popup like it isnt there. I have run all the numbers and realize I am on the edge. I have upgraded my P tires to LT and have added the RoadMaster Active Suspension as well (Supersprings were an option as well but I found a local source for the Roadmaster AS). I currently on have a friction sway bar but will get at a minimum an Equilizer for the new TT (another thread discussion). All these things considered the TV with the tongue weight is as I said right on the line (tires and rear axle ok) and the TT is 500 to 1000 below max for towing at the TT max capacity numbers. I am still looking at some used diesel options for the tow vehicle but the Tundra handles so well as a daily driver I hate to trade her in. What I need is a Tundra with a diesel ...


You're doing the right thing. One last comment though... A 5400 lb pop up is a lot different than a 9000 lb TT. The weight is only part of the story. IMO, more significant is the 30-35 ft sail that is behind you. Sway can be controlled, but if the wind catches you sideways, it can still push you off the road. Many of us start with a 1/2 ton and upgrade (I had a 28RSDS as the first TT and the F150 lasted 1 year). Again, I'm just warning you because it can get a bit pricey! Some are happy with 1/2 tons, just be aware and be careful.


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## dunn4 (Feb 16, 2008)

We love our outdoor kitchen for a few reasons: doesn't heat up the camper, being outside, easy to clean with no floor to clean, being outside, larger space and can watch the kids and wildlife while cooking, doesn't make the camper smell, and best of all, being outside.

Oh, and welcome to Outbackers....


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Since you are looking for opinions on outside kitchens...we love ours. It is great. We cook on it all the time. I think we cook on it just about every trip we make. After a while - you won't hardly ever cook inside since the cooking smells will stay outside. The outside camp kitchen on our Outback is a major plus to us.

-CC


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## BirminghamRTR (Oct 8, 2009)

Nathan: Thank you for your comments. As I mentioned above I need to start a thread on WD Hitches. The Equalizer is a minimum but I have been looking at (and my wallet in fear of  a 3P or a Hensley. I will dig deeper in the forums before posting that one.


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## JerseyGirl86 (Mar 30, 2009)

Welcome! The 310BHS is my dream Outback! You have great taste!









As much as I'd hate to steer you away from an Outback, I think you answered your own question when you said the 303 has everything you want. But I agree that the kids need their own space or it just doesn't make for good camping! Can't wait to see what you decide on. Good luck!


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Just note about the outside kitchens. We removed the plastic carrier of the stove and tub since we rarely used it. We use the area for storage of cups, paper plates, bug spray, sunblock, etc. and it opens as a small table. we also leave the hose hooked up and soored in there. We find this much more usefull. Of coarse i saved the stove unit if the next owner (yes, i said next owner...) wishes to use it. i have to post pictures the next time its home, forgot about doing that.


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## Bookin' It (Feb 10, 2008)

We concur with dunn4 regarding the truck. We have a relatively small OB - - the 25RSS, and it was a challenge to pull it with a Ford 150. We wouldn't even consider towing in the mountains. We upgraded to a GMC Sierra 2500 with Duramax Diesel and Allison Transmission, and the difference has been incredible. Dunn4 makes the critically important point about the "sail" that will follow your truck with a bigger TT. It can make for some truly scary moments if you don't have the right TV. We understand the desire for the outdoor kitchen, but the OB provides sink and stove, and we put a folding table next to the stove when we cook. Makes for a great experience. Don't need anything else. Welcome to outbackers.com! We learn something new every time we log on.


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