# I Have All My Info



## ndtiger (Feb 17, 2005)

I now have most of my info on my tow vehicles. Need some advice and help.

2003 Ford Expedition

gears - 3.73 limited slip axle
tow package - class 4 trailer tow (have no idea what this means) with tow/haul
GVWR - 6900 lbs.
GAWR - front 2950, rear 4000
GCVWR - 11,500 lbs.
Wheelbase - 119"
tow capacity - 6215 lbs.
Actual vehicle weight (from a scale) - 5460 lbs.

2002 Chevy Silverado

gears - 3.42
tow package - 4 speed auto transmission with tow/haul mode and a trans cooler
GVWR - 6100 lbs.
GAWR - front 3150, rear 3686
GCVWR - 11,000 lbs.
wheelbase - 119"
tow capacity - 6500 lbs.
Actual vehicle weight (from a scale) - 4660 lbs.

I am looking at the 21RS and the 23RS Outback models.

21RS 23RS

Gross dry weight - 3990 lbs. 4360 lbs.
carrying capacity - 1510 lbs. 1640 lbs.
hitch - 360 lbs. 340 lbs.

Okay. What do you guy's think? And remember that I have never owned a trailer before and all this stuff is new to me.

Thank you for all your help.

Bill


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## ndtiger (Feb 17, 2005)

I forgot to give engine size

Expedition - 4.6 V-8
Chevy 1500 - 4.8 Vortec V-8

Sorry


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## dougdogs (Jul 31, 2004)

with the rear gear numbers, sounds like the ford will do better on hills and mountain passes. But I don't know what area you live in.

How are the gas mileage numbers for both?


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## jallen58 (Oct 27, 2003)

With the Expedition (GCVWR 11500) and the 23rs GCVWR= 11460
With the Expedition (GCVWR 11500) and the 21rs GCVWR= 10960

With the silverado (GCVWR 11000) and the 23rs GCVWR=10660
With the silverado (GCVWR 11000) and the 23rs GCVWR=10160

Based GCVWR assuming the TT is loaded to there max both vehicles are very close
to GCVWR and this is not counting passenger weight. I doubt you will ever load the TT to the max however it could happen. the Expedition and the 21rs gives you the best cushion but still close to GCVWR (#540 for passengers) and the 3:73 gears
Will give you better results. A gear change in the Silverado might make a better choice as this will increase it's toe capacity

Jim


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## Not Yet (Dec 13, 2004)

First, very commendable that you are going through all of this before buying. Many have not and many have regretted it.

Wheelbase: 119 both
rule of thumb is 110in = 20 feet
+4in for every foot after
119 in = 22+ feet 
That puts both vehicles between the two trailers ( a properly set up quality hitch can help with this)

Expedition
5460 on scale (assuming your weight and gas is in that figure) add a couple of hundred pounds for passengers and gear so figure 5800 that puts your max trailer weight at 5700 (GCVWR-Actual vehicle weight). 
21 RS tops out at 5500 (near your limit)
23 tops out at 6000 (a little over your limit)

Chevy
4660 on scale same + add ons 5000 actual
max trailer weight 6000

The gears on the expedition should help the transmission but you are at the top end of the range.

The gear on the Chevy are a little high but you have a little more play in the weights.

Tow mode changes the shifting point in the transmission so that the engine stays inside the power band longer before shifting.

All of these figures are conservative (on the side of saftey) but in my mind safety deserves some buffer room.

Hope all that helps.

Jared


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## rives35 (Feb 1, 2005)

ndtiger,

I also have Chevrolet 1500 4.8L pickup, however mine is the Z71 model. I have the 28BHS model TT and the dry weight is 4930lbs. This is the first TT that I have ever owned. I went on my first outing last week and the tralier pulled well. I belive that you will be fine with choosing either trailer. Just make sure you get a good sway control system. This will make your first ride much less stressful.

Good Luck,


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## ndtiger (Feb 17, 2005)

I know that this is an Outback board but I am also looking at the Forest River Surveyor 235RS.

Dry weight 3699 lbs.
load capacity - 1320 lbs.
hitch - 360 lbs.

This one seeems to be quite a bit lighter. Anybody know anything about this trailer?


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## Not Yet (Dec 13, 2004)

ndtiger said:


> I know that this is an Outback board but I am also looking at the Forest River Surveyor 235RS.
> 
> Dry weight 3699 lbs.
> load capacity - 1320 lbs.
> ...


It is a little shorter than the 24RS and definitely lighter but the soft sided slides could limit your camping season.









You can also look at the Keystone zeppelin line. The web site is way out of date. The new 05s look very nice and are very light. If there is a dealer close go pick up a zeppelin brochure. Apparently Keystone did a complete redesign on this line.

Jared


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## ndtiger (Feb 17, 2005)

Not Yet said:


> ndtiger said:
> 
> 
> > I know that this is an Outback board but I am also looking at the Forest River Surveyor 235RS.
> ...


It is hard sided.


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## Not Yet (Dec 13, 2004)

ndtiger said:


> It is hard sided.
> [snapback]24125[/snapback]​


None of the zeppelins have end slide queens, some do have side slides that are hard.


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

I'm just going to add to (and repeat a little







) what's already been said

Tongue weight on my 21RS is +/- 500.

The expedition has a gvw of 6900 as weighed, 5460, add 500 for tongue, 5960, 400 for passengers 6360 and a few hundred for gear and you are at +/- 6600, 300 under gross.

My 21RS weighs +/- 4900 loaded so your gcwr would be +/- 11000. Puts you close, but I think the 21RS is a better choice lengthwise and weightwise. IMO when you're pulling with a 1/2 ton, performance really goes down hill the closer you get to the maximum ratings.

You could do the 23RS, you will just be that much closer to your max weights.


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## PghOutback (Feb 7, 2005)

We looked at the Surveyor when we purchased our 23RS. When you compare the two, you'll notice that the Surveyer is built with thinner walls. Everything we touched in the camper flexed.

That construction saves weight, but we have two young girls and a ton of nieces and nephews. Our concern was that things would start to break very quickly with the Surveyor.

Now, if it will be mainly adults in the camper, then I'm sure that it would hold up. I was in a couple's Trail Cruiser (similar thin walls inside) that was a few years old, and it was in perfect shape.

About the tow vehicles, I think you'll be okay just as long as you don't pack everything that you own. Just get a decent WD and sway control setup and drive conservatively.

On the conservative driving part, the difference between pulling a trailer at 60 MPH versus 70 MPH is substantial. And if things begin to go wrong, they happen alot quicker at the higher speed. You can't stop anywhere near as quickly when towing a trailer, so look way ahead for problems and make sure that your reactions are controlled.

It is also helpful to remember that momentum is your friend, when towing a heavy load. If you wait until you start up a steep grade to hit the gas, then you'll work your tow vehicle pretty hard. Following people too closely can also force you to hit your brakes and lose momentum when you don't have to. I've towed boats, horse trailers and campers, but this concept really sank in when I started mountain biking!









It also helps to stay off of the winding back roads as much as possible. They tend to have sharper corners, steeper grades, and limited areas to pull off the road.

So, you can do easily if you pack light, drive sensibly and plan your routes carefully.

Good luck choosing! They are both really nice campers.


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## kjp1969 (Apr 25, 2004)

Not Yet said:


> First, very commendable that you are going through all of this before buying. Many have not and many have regretted it.
> [snapback]24119[/snapback]​


Guilty as charged!

I wouldn't worry at all about the weight or towing capacity of either truck, my Sequoia pulls a 23rs just fine, if a little slow over hills. The Very Big Issue for you (and anyone pulling a big trailer) is stability. Your Expedition (particularly) is set up from the factory for hauling passengers, and likely has a fairly soft rear suspension and 'P' rated tires. These are a compromise between towing stability and passenger comfort, and you'll have to make sure your hitch and sway control can compensate for that. I'm sure there are folks pulling a 21RS with a F-350 dually crew cab who have never had a stability issue and run no sway control, but a truck like that is a purpose built towing machine, not a "compromise" vehicle. Whatever equipment you choose, make sure it's set up well so that you have a stable, well balanced rig. Good luck- I think either of those vehicles, properly set up, would do just fine with either the 23rs or the 21rs.

Kevin P.


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