# Problems Getting Bigger



## Osprey (Jun 10, 2005)

I am so glad I found this forum. Finally a place to share information with other Outback owners. We purchased an new 23FB-S in 2002. We loved the layout of the trailer and it's easy towing. It is perfect for two.

Since then, there have been a number of problems with the trailer, some small some big. Here is a list of the minor ones: CD player did not work, range top cover hinge broke, black tank sensor failed (always shows full), hot and cold water supplies reversed. The dealer replaced the CD player under warranty the first year. In 2003, I had to repair the rest myself because the warranty period was over. In that year, we also noticed a smell coming from the stack vent in the bath. I had to repair it because it was cracked.

All of these are irritants, rather than costly problems. However, this year during the spring check, I found the following: The vinyl floor is ripped in multiple locations (especially around floor vents), the hot water tank control does not work, and the fiberglass on the door is starting to delaminate.

I have contacted my dealer, who contacted Keystone. The answer from both is "Nothing we can do too far out of warranty to offer any assistance".

I had hoped that Keystone would come good for what are obviously manufacturing or installation flaws. However, they don't seem to be so inclined.

Any suggestions on how to get the sour taste out of our mouths?


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## hatcityhosehauler (Feb 13, 2004)

I'm not positive, but I believe the flooring is warranted by the manufacturer for 10 years (Armstrong I think). The WH has a warranty from the manufacturer also, (not sure if it is suburban or dometic) which may exceed Keystones warranty. What exactly is not working with the WH? As far as the fiberglass on the door, has there been any previous problems with it, that may be documented with your dealer? I thought there was a longer warranty on the skin also, but I'm not sure.

Castle Rock Outbackers has a fairly comprehensive list of what everything is warranted for. Perhaps he will chime in, or you could send him a PM.

Good Luck
Tim


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## CamperAndy (Aug 26, 2004)

I would suggest you post each of the problem you have with pictures where possible and more details for each problem.

It will be easier to address each problem on its own then with all the rest.

That said Keystone does have to draw the line in the sand somewhere and other then the lamination problem I think they are correct to say it is up to you to fix. That is where this forum will come in handy. We can help you fix the problems and they will be less of an irritant.


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## Osprey (Jun 10, 2005)

Tim,
Thanks for the info on the floor warranties. I will look into that further.
The WH problem is in the circuit board located right near the pressure relief valve. It will not fire the plug. I have cleaned the gold contacts on it to make it work before. That trick does not seem to be working now. The dealer says it need to be replaced.

CamperAndy,
The trailer is parked at a seasonal campsite. I will be out there tonight and will certainly take some photographs that i can post after the weekend.

Thanks again for your responses.


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## Ghosty (Jan 17, 2005)

OSPREY --

you are not alone - but dont feel bad -- my camper is under full warranty and when presented with problems KEYSTONE bascially told me that "all they do was manufacturer the trailer, it is left up to the dealer to fix and service it"...

However I do agree with CamperAndy that its best to list one item at a time so we can help focus on the solution...

Not sure what warranty the 2002 had but the 2005 has a 10 year on the roof and the floor....


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## Parker Outbacker (Dec 17, 2004)

Ospery - There is a website online, of course I can't think of the name of it, but do a search on the water heater, and you might be able to find some online deals for the circuit board.

I would say the WH is the biggest issue, hopefully it won't take much to get it fixed.

Good luck.


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## Chips (Aug 15, 2004)

I too have a 2002 Outback . After the second winter my flooring also cracked in several places. The problem is that Keystone doesn't glue the flooring down. It was off warrenty by 1 year but Keystone replaced the flooring. NOW FOR THE BAD NEWS- They only replace the flooring; they DON"T cover the labour costs to install it. It's the labour to install that's the big cost.

I took the flooring because that was the LEAST Keystone could give up and I might as well use it somewhere. I was lucky in that I had two things: 1) extra laminate flooring from doing my house, and 2) advanced handiman skills. I decided to replace the flooring with Laminate flooring so I took almost everthing out of the trailer, seats, cupboards, etc. and installed the laminate flooring. It is very durable and doesn't add that much extra weight. I am currently putting the trailer back together.

The long and the short of this message is that repacing the floor involves either one or both of the following:
1) A lot of labour costs to have someone replace it.
2) A lot of time and effort to replace it yourself.

Somehow, I feel that both 1) and 2) shouldn't have to be done on a 2 year old trailer if the manufacturer was adhearing to true quality workmanship!


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## scouser (Apr 4, 2005)

Parker Outbacker said:


> Ospery -Â There is a website online, of course I can't think of the name of it, but do a search on the water heater, and you might be able to find some online deals for the circuit board.
> 
> I would say the WH is the biggest issue, hopefully it won't take much to get it fixed.
> 
> ...


If you need a new board try Dinosaur electronics site they will help you to trouble shoot problems on line or on the phone... great people. www.dinosaurelectronics.com

Regards Mal


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## Osprey (Jun 10, 2005)

OK. A little later than expected, but here are some pictures.

The linoleum

Another linoleum

Door skin

Water Heater

WH Controller

I agree that the water heater is the biggest problem so I will continue this thread dealing *only with the WH*.
Here is what it does when it is switched on:
Lets out propane, fires, good burn. After 5-6 minutes, when the water is partially heated, the burner shuts down. It then tries to fire 3 times without success, before the safety lock out kicks in. It then will not fire again.

Any help troubleshooting this problem greatly appreciated.

Osprey


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## jgerni (Nov 10, 2003)

Call Atwood at (574) 264-2131. They troubleshooted a inline fuse problem with my WH on the phone. These were speciall inline fuses and they ended up sending me 3 of them for backups. Make sure you have a volt meter handy.


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Osprey one of the things I learned on my last trip out when I needed some repairs done, fast, was that its worth looking around to some of the odd ball repair shops vs. our dealer. In my case our dealer has a shop rate of some $90/hour and the other place I was at was $68/hour. The water heater might not be a big deal to a person who knows what they are looking at, and can get you in and out quick and cheap (relatively). The flooring thing really bothers me, sounds like its been covered before but I sure would fight on that if you find out that the laminate was installed wrong. As for the door, I haven't seen major problems with the Outback, but this isn't unheard of in the industry and is pretty common. A good RV repair shop can give you an idea what it would cost to fix the door and to paint to match, I don't think you're looking at that much on that size of a door - compared to the whole side of a camper.

I know its frustrating, but with some 3 years on the camper I can also understand Keystone's point of view. We all sort of flip the coin when we buy hoping nothing major goes wrong once the warranty expiries. I do think you will find you have some coverage for the water heater, your dealer maybe willing to help you out with that.

Good luck and keep us posted.


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## Castle Rock Outbackers (Jan 18, 2004)

I have a piece of paper from my dealer which I will scan tonight and post. Here is what it says regarding the warranty:

Rubber roof - 12 years
Plumbing - 10 years
Furnace - 5 years
A/C - 2 years
Awning - 3 years
Microwave - 3 years
Refrigerator - 3 years
Water heater - 2 years
Smoke detector - 3 years
Water pump - 2 years
Fiberglass exterior - 2 years
Steel frame - 2 years
Axles - 2 years
TV antenna - 2 years
Stovetop range - 2 years
Toilet - 2 years
Countertop - 2 years

Everything else - 1 year

Randy


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## Osprey (Jun 10, 2005)

Thanks all for the responses on the WH problem. I will let you know what the fix is when we are able to track it down.

Here is an update for you all on the vinyl floor and the fiberglass on the entry door. Keystone will not do anything for me because "... the warranty period has expired". When I explained that the problem is happening because the floor is only attached to the coach at the edges, the response was "We don't glue any of our floors". When I pointed out that this is an issue in Northen climates because of freezing / thawing cycles the answer was "Sorry sir. This is an environmental issue. Unfortunately you're out of warranty".

Gahhhhhhh. I know the warranty is over, but a 3 yr old trailer is still a new trailer!

I think it is totally irresponsible for a manufacturer not to stand behind their product at all. This is a product sold in northern climates (in my neck of the woods, temperatures range from +30 C. in the summer to -30 C. in the winter). As far as I am concerned, these are design / manufacturing flaws not "an environmental issue". This coach was not used in the winter. It was winterized and stored, so there is no moisture issue from using it in cold temperatures. The flooring and the fiberglass are having problems because they are not properly attached to the frame. Irrespective of warranty, the manufacturer should take responsibility for their bad engineering / manufacturing and repair the problems.

According to Keystone, they are not seeing this problem with their floors or their fiberglass shell. I have to conclude then, that my unit is a "lemon". If it is a "lemon", then you would think that they would help me make lemonade just to give themselves some good will.


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## campingwiththe6pac (Sep 22, 2004)

I had an 02 26RS and it was a lemon. They would not take it back. They tried to fix it, but would not take it back. Even during the warranty period.

I now found my 04 28rss leaked in. I hope it was an unsealed marker light from the factory and wrecked the interior board in the left front bunk. All warped and looking bad. I sealed that light and looked around. I can not see were else it could be taking on water. I can not tell if it is done, but it seems dry. I do see water leak from the left front corner at the bottom after a rain. All the ground is dry except for this corner where it drips for 2 days. seems wet behind the area where the fiberglass is jogged up under the tank cover. There may still be water getting in but all the seals look good.

I recently bought a lot to park the rig on. I love traveling to new spots, but I am sick of the parking lot type camp grounds and the 50 to 60 bucks a night they charge to sleep in their parking lot that is covered with grass and has a fire pit.
I will use this rig for now. The wife wants the new Sydney QSS or something like that, but I do not think I will let myself be burned again by outback. it is a very nice camper but the leaks and poor workmanship bum me out! I just can not see spending 22K on the new one.


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## cookie9933 (Feb 26, 2005)

Finding the entry point for water may be tough, because a small leak can run along the underside of a flat "horizontal" surface if there is even a very slight pitch. But there must be some pitch to make the water move sideways, otherwise it would probably drop straight down.

What I am suggesting is that you be sure that any light, vent, seam, etc that is anywhere close to (and higher than) the leak gets looked at. Hope this is good advice. Although I haven't had to chase down a water leak in a RV (yet), knowing how water behaves recommends my point. Good luck.

Bill


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## campingwiththe6pac (Sep 22, 2004)

Thanks Cookie

I have been looking at all possible points. The roof seems look great. It makes me think that one could buy that lap cement they pour on the roof and seal it in the stuff.


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