# 2004 Nissan Armada And My 2007 Sydney Edition Outback



## mary p (Sep 17, 2007)

A little backround info. MY armada is a 4wd w/ the self leveling suspension. I have taken both the rv and the truck to my local (rv) dealership complaining about the rv swaying around 50mph. They have come to the conclusion that it's swaying due to the self leveling system of the Nissan. So I took the truck to Nissan and the told me that everything checked out ok w/ the the truck and that it had to be the trailer. I do have sway bars. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## egregg57 (Feb 13, 2006)

mary p said:


> A little backround info. MY armada is a 4wd w/ the self leveling suspension. I have taken both the rv and the truck to my local (rv) dealership complaining about the rv swaying around 50mph. They have come to the conclusion that it's swaying due to the self leveling system of the Nissan. So I took the truck to Nissan and the told me that everything checked out ok w/ the the truck and that it had to be the trailer. I do have sway bars. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


 What TT do you have?


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## mary p (Sep 17, 2007)

31rqs


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## Airboss (Jul 14, 2007)

Have you had your rig weighed? Quite possibly your tongue weight is too light. Also, what kind of weight distribution and sway control are you using? I'm no expert, but the more information you can give us will surely help.

BTW, welcome to Outbackers.com! I know that more than a few people here will be able to help you get your problem solved.


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## Five Outbackers (Dec 27, 2006)

Welcome to Outbackers 

Hello glad you found Outbackers you will get many answers from a lot of helpfull people.

1. Size/ Model of Trailer ( already asked by egregg57 ) 
2. Kind of Weight Dis. hitch you have 
3. Kind of sway control you have ( if not part of your hitch)
4. What kind of tires you have on Trailer and on Armada

This will help everyone help you


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## Highlander96 (Mar 1, 2005)

Not enough wheel base..........????????............????????


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## Airboss (Jul 14, 2007)

Highlander has a point - the Armada has a 123" wheelbase. I agree that this can be a contributing factor, but I want more details.


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## mary p (Sep 17, 2007)

Five Outbackers said:


> Welcome to Outbackers
> 
> Hello glad you found Outbackers you will get many answers from a lot of helpfull people.
> 
> ...


The trailer is a 31rqs.
Trailer tire size & model- h78-15st (st225/75/r15) Only name I see on tire is DURO
Armada tire size & brand- 265/70/r18 Continental Contitrac
Equalizer model 2332


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## Five Outbackers (Dec 27, 2006)

Passenger tires (P rated ) instead of truck tires (LT rated ) ?????????????????


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## mary p (Sep 17, 2007)

2. Kind of Weight Dis. hitch you have

I don't really see a "brand" or model"


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## Five Outbackers (Dec 27, 2006)

MaryP

I have passenger tires on my Suburban and I get a little sway from the tires. Are you getting major sway or just a little sway


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## mary p (Sep 17, 2007)

Five Outbackers said:


> Passenger tires (P rated ) instead of truck tires (LT rated ) ?????????????????


http://www.tiredealersites.com/ContiTireSe...mp;SizeID=20851

I'm pretty sure they are not passenger tires


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

If you have the ability to turn off the leveling system turn it off and use the wd bars to level it. Yes you have a short wheelbase and P rated tires won't help any get some LT tires and a Equal-I-Zer, Dual cam, or a Hensley and that should help. There must be something about the balance of the 31rqs more people have sway problems with that unit than any other.

John


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## mary p (Sep 17, 2007)

Five Outbackers said:


> MaryP
> 
> I have passenger tires on my Suburban and I get a little sway from the tires. Are you getting major sway or just a little sway


It's pretty major.


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## mary p (Sep 17, 2007)

johnp2000 said:


> If you have the ability to turn off the leveling system turn it off and use the wd bars to level it. Yes you have a short wheelbase and P rated tires won't help any get some LT tires and a Equal-I-Zer, Dual cam, or a Hensley and that should help. There must be something about the balance of the 31rqs more people have sway problems with that unit than any other.
> 
> John


Have the equalizer model 2332. Nissan say that it would be unsafe to disable the leveling system. WD bars? I linked the tires are they passenger or lt tires


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## Five Outbackers (Dec 27, 2006)

[/quote]
Have the equalizer model 2332. Nissan say that it would be unsafe to disable the leveling system. WD bars? I linked the tires are they passenger or lt tires
[/quote]

They look like they are Passenger and a Light truck tires That is what Tire Rack says about them. That would not cause major sway

I have a Dual cam WD hitch I cant help you with the Equalizer set up if that is some of your problem


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## OregonCampin (Mar 9, 2007)

Near as I can tell is those tires are "SL" rated - which I understand to mean Standard Load, or probably pretty close to passenger tires. Pulling that much, you should have LT rated tires. We put 10 ply's on your F150 (can you believe they put passenger tires on a 1/2 ton truck?) because we pull through gravel and dirt a lot. It did make our load more stable as well.


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

Mary does your Equalizer hitch look like this? I don't see your model # on the Equalizer hitch website.









Getting your setup weighed is a good setup, trying to determine your hitch weight is important. Its a pain but ideally you want to weight the truck/trailer then weight the truck only.

Generally what I've read is to disable the self-leveling until after you have the TT and hitch setup right and level then turn on the self-leveling.

The general rule of thumb on wheel base to trailer length is "A tow vehicle should have a minimum wheel base of 100 inches. A wheel base of 110 inches is recommended for a 20 foot trailer. For every additional foot of trailer length (above 20') add 4 inches to the wheel base. i.e., a 22 foot trailer=118 inches wheel base, a 24 foot trailer=126 inches wheel base."

So take the 123' Armada and your 35'1" trailer. By the rule of thumb your Armada shouldn't tow more then about 23'-24' of trailer, and you have 11' feet more. I think you have to much trailer for your Armada.

I've towed a 39' 5er before, but I had around 156" wheelbase. I suppose a Hensley Hitch might help, but even with that I think you may still have problems.


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## Rubrhammer (Nov 27, 2006)

Y GUy has given you very good advice. When you weigh your set up, weigh the truck with the WDH bars loaded and unloaded and then weigh just the truck. With the bars unloaded you should have a pretty close measure of your true tongue weight. With them loaded some of that weight gets sent back onto the trlr axles.
My .02 is that the 35' length on the relatively short wheelbase is what is giving you the sway. I hope you are able to find a solution without changing vehicles.
Bob


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## skippershe (May 22, 2006)

Rubrhammer said:


> I hope you are able to find a solution without changing vehicles.
> Bob


I hope you are able to find a solution before something really bad happens....
Sorry, but I totally agree with Y-Guy...Your Outback is too big for your TV

I'm willing to bet your that your dealer said that it would be just fine


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

Mary,

I've got an Expedition with the load leveling suspension and the only time I turn it off is when I first setup the Equalizer hitch and now when I hitch/unhitch the trailer. I would not drive with the air suspension off as the truck will probably be even less stable. The sway is most likely due to trailer being quite long for the Armada. I suspect the only way to really get the sway under control will be to get the Hensley Arrow hitch or a larger tow vehicle. Good luck and let us know how the search for stable towing goes.


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## wade2006 (Jan 12, 2007)

Everyone is giving great advice. When we bought our 23KRS (much shorter than yours) we pulled it home with our Tahoe. We have an equalizer hitch also. It swayed and the trailer basically controlled the tv. I've pulled trailers for years with horses so the length wasn't an issue for me and of course with animals that is moving weight. But when pulling the trailer home with the tv I knew we had to do something different before we drove 1100 miles to Oklahoma. I refused to travel through the mountains with this set up. So DH so graciously purchased us a new tv, a 2007 chevy duramax. When he pulled the trailer with it he couldn't believe the difference. My sister helped pull it back from Oklahoma to AZ and she never pulls a trailer. No swaying, no problems. Just my thought. Our families safety was just too important for us to deal with the swaying which made us miserable on the way to and from the trip.


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## California Jim (Dec 11, 2003)

Wow, that's alot of trailer for an Armada.


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## mswalt (Sep 14, 2004)

Mary,

I have the 31RQS, too. Last summer I purchased some new TV tires, loaded up and drove 5 hours to East Texas, and endured the worst ride of my life.

I finally figured out I didn't have enough weight in the front of the TT (too little tongue weight). After I redjusted my Equalizer hitch and loaded more weight in the front storage compartment, sway disappeared.

I now believe it was a combination of new tires, too little tongue weight, and some crosswinds that weekend. I've not experienced sway again after resetting the hitch.

Mark


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## luv2camp (Mar 9, 2006)

OK, some people are going to want to shoot me, but I tow the 28RSDS with my 2004 Armada. Granted, it's about 4' shorter than your Trailer, but it's still longer than what I "should" be towing with my Armada. I have the Reese Dual Cam WD hitch and upgraded my tires to BridgeStone DuelerAT Revo's - which we just LOVE. There is no way to turn off the air-leveling system in that Armada.

Bottom line, for me - I have no problems with sway with this set up, but I think I have to agree with the others - your trailer is too long/heavy for the Armada.


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## GoVols (Oct 7, 2005)

I think most of the valid reasons have been hit, but here are my thoughts:

Possible reasons why the trailer is swaying:

1. As Y-guy said, your trailer is too long/big for your Armada's wheel base.
2. P tires on vehicle instead of stiffer LT tires.
3. Insufficient sway control on the TV.
4. Insufficient sway control at the hitch. (see #5)
5. Too little weight on hitch of trailer.
6. Trailer is not level or is nose-high when coupled.
7. Trailer axles are not aligned with each other and the frame.
8. Insufficent air pressure in tow vehicle or trailer tires.

Any and all of these can contribute to sway. Solutions to the above:

1. Trade for a vehicle more equipped to tow such a long trailer.
2. Put LT 10-ply tires on the vehicle.
3. Add a 3rd party rear torsion or sway bar to Armada's chassis/suspension.
4. Adjust hitch so that sway control friction is increased and weight is equally applied to TV's axles.
5. Weigh trailer and if tongue is not 12-15% of total trailer weight, redistribute load to achieve that range.
6. Make sure trailer is level or slightly nose down when coupled.
7. Measure each axle end to a common point (hitch coupler) to see if the axles are square with the trailer.
8. Make sure all tires are inflated to their recommended cold inflation pressures.


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

California Jim said:


> Wow, that's alot of trailer for an Armada.


X2 !
A lot of good advice given so far. Just be safe!!


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## Mgonzo2u (Aug 3, 2004)

Too short a wheel base should be the biggest concern for you.


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## Collinsfam_WY (Nov 9, 2006)

Sayonara said:


> Wow, that's alot of trailer for an Armada.


X2 !
A lot of good advice given so far. Just be safe!!
[/quote]

X3...31RQS is a big son of a gun for an Armada in the wheelbase vs. TT length area. Echo'ing what everyone else has said - if your dealer set up your Equal-I-zer brand hitch, it is set up wrong. Get your Equal-I-zer dialed in correctly - you can see the instructions at Equalizer.com and make sure your tire pressures are correct.

-CC


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## campmg (Dec 24, 2005)

That's also a lot of camper for a 1/2 ton TV. I think you have a few things working against you including but not limited to different weight issues (combined, net, tongue, gross), lack of wheel base, soft suspension, tires.

Probably not what you want to hear. Some of these things can be corrected but you cannot overcome certain specs already built into your camper and Armada.


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## Mgonzo2u (Aug 3, 2004)

That was a diplomatic way of saying what they don't want to hear.


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## mary p (Sep 17, 2007)

thanks guys for all the help. Looks like i've got some thinking to do


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## mary p (Sep 17, 2007)

So what tv would you guys suggest? Prefferbly a suv.


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## johnp (Mar 15, 2004)

2500 Suburban with the 8.1 and 4.10 gears or a Diesel Excursion other than a 2003 with a 6.0.

John


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## PDX_Doug (Nov 16, 2004)

johnp2000 said:


> 2500 Suburban with the 8.1 and 4.10 gears or a Diesel Excursion other than a 2003 with a 6.0.
> 
> John


For an SUV, those would certainly be my choices as well. Big... but that's what you need.

Happy Trails,
Doug


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## camping479 (Aug 27, 2003)

PDX_Doug said:


> 2500 Suburban with the 8.1 and 4.10 gears or a Diesel Excursion other than a 2003 with a 6.0.
> 
> John


For an SUV, those would certainly be my choices as well. Big... but that's what you need.

Happy Trails,
Doug
[/quote]

good advice...

No getting around it, big trailers require big trucks.

Mike


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## ntputter17 (Aug 17, 2007)

If it's gonna be an every day driver, I would look at the deisel Excursion. If it's gonna be a TV only, then go for the V10 Excursion. It will pull what you need and can be had for a lot less money.....

Kirk


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## Y-Guy (Jan 30, 2004)

You really have two units to consider in the SUV field, though you may want to consider something more like a Ford F250 Crew Cab.

*Ford Expedition EL 131" Wheelbase / 221" overall
Chevy Suburban 130" Wheelbase / 222" overall*

Chrysler Aspen 119/200 (same as Dodge Durango)
Chevy Tahoe 116/202
Jeep Commander 109/188
Nissan Armada 123/206
Toyota 4Runner 109/189
Toyota Highlander 109/188
Toyota Landcruiser 109/185


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## ntputter17 (Aug 17, 2007)

Y-Guy said:


> You really have two units to consider in the SUV field, though you may want to consider something more like a Ford F250 Crew Cab.
> 
> *Ford Expedition EL 131" Wheelbase / 221" overall
> Chevy Suburban 130" Wheelbase / 222" overall*
> ...


Ford Excursion 137" wheel base......

Kirk


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## Sayonara (Jul 23, 2007)

Since no new SUV's included the biggest thing we wanted (diesel) We opted for the '08 F350 diesel crew cab and ordered a Leer100XQ cap and a bedrug. I had the same setup on my F150 and it made it just like an SUV. the bed was completely carpeted in the cap and in the bed. I can get some pictures of it. then you also have the versitility of a PU if need be. thats just what we decided and thought id pass it on.


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

mary p,

Sorry about the tow vehicle troubles, but once you get a more suitable tow vehicle you'll be much happier and be able to enjoy the joys of camping with your Outback. There are really only 2 SUVs that are suitable, the Chevy 2500 Suburban or the Ford Excursion, either with the biggest engine possible. I would not recommend the Expedition EL because the 5.4L engine is good but it's not up to the size trailer you have. The Expedition EL also has a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 15,000 lbs and you'll probably be close or over that before you even put people or anything in the vehicle. The good news is that with gas prices right now you can find some pretty good deals on used Suburbans or Excursions. FYI, the last model year of the Excursion was 2005.

If you don't need the 3rd row seat then you've got a lot more options. Chevy, Dodge, and Ford all make very nice crewcab 3/4 and 1 ton trucks that can easily handle you're trailer. There are several recent threads on the pros and cons of the various trucks so some browsing here will give you quite a bit of information. If you'd like some websites to research specific vehicles just let me know I've been doing lots of reading on trucks lately so I've got some good places for information.


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## Airboss (Jul 14, 2007)

MJRey said:


> mary p,
> 
> Sorry about the tow vehicle troubles, but once you get a more suitable tow vehicle you'll be much happier and be able to enjoy the joys of camping with your Outback. There are really only 2 SUVs that are suitable, the Chevy 2500 Suburban or the Ford Excursion, either with the biggest engine possible. I would not recommend the Expedition EL because the 5.4L engine is good but it's not up the size trailer you have. The Expedition EL also has a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 15,000 lbs and you'll probably be close or over that before you even put people or anything in the vehicle. The good news is that with gas prices right now you can find some pretty good deals on used Suburbans or Excursions. FYI, the last model year of the Excursion was 2005.
> 
> If you don't need the 3rd row seat then you've got a lot more options. Chevy, Dodge, and Ford all make very nice crewcab 3/4 and 1 ton trucks that can easily handle you're trailer. There are several recent threads on the pros and cons of the various trucks so some browsing here will give you quite a bit of information. If you'd like some websites to research specific vehicles just let me know I've been doing lots of reading on trucks lately so I've got some good places for information.


IMO, this is some really great advice if you are looking to upgrade your TV!


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## Sluggo54 (Jun 15, 2005)

"2. Put LT 10-ply tires on the vehicle."

Be very careful here. Your Armada's wheels are probably not rated for the 80# pressure required to get the max load rating from those E-rated tires. No responsible tire dealer would mount them on wheels not rated for them, but we all know there are irresponsible and incompetent people everywhere.

Also, 80# tires require metal valve stems, NOT rubber.

Sluggo


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## Ymryl (Mar 2, 2004)

There is no way I would even consider attempting to tow a 31RQS with my Armada (which is the same as yours). The 'mada does a decent job handling my 28-RSS but I feel I am pushing the limits towing it. (The 28 is 5 - 1/2' shorter, weighs over a ton less and has half the tongue weight of the unit you have). My feeling is that you really need something along the lines of an F250/350 sized truck with a long wheelbase to handle a unit that size. SUV's simply are not built to handle the kind of stress and weight that something that size places on the tow vehicle. With that said, you _may_ be able to find a used Excursion with a diesel engine or perhaps one of the extremely rare used Suburban 2500's (neither of these are built any more) if you absolutely must have an SUV. For me, I'm waiting for the 09 Sequoia which will have the new Tundras 5.7 V8 and a longer wheelbase than the Armada. Unfortunately, I doubt even this would be enough to safely pull your unit.


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## MJRey (Jan 21, 2005)

Ymryl said:


> For me, I'm waiting for the 09 Sequoia which will have the new Tundras 5.7 V8 and a longer wheelbase than the Armada. Unfortunately, I doubt even this would be enough to safely pull your unit.


I suspect the 09 Sequoia will suffer from the same limited payload/GCWR rating as most of the current SUVs. Given the payload ratings for the current Tundra it's hard to imagine the Tundra derived Sequoia having a sufficient payload capacity to be any better than what's available right now. When you've got a big trailer (28 feet or longer, my personal definition) your best tow vehicle options are the largest SUVs and the 3/4 and 1 ton pickups.


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## azthroop (Jun 16, 2007)

Since everyone has given their $0.02 worth, I would like to add mine!







We pull our 31 RQS with a 2001 Suburban 2500, 8.1L, Autoride, Posi-rear end, 4.10 gears and use a Reese Dual Cam WD system (until I can afford a Hensley!). It pulls very well with very little sway. Once in a while when a semi and cross-winds hit, at the same time, will I get some sway.

I also agree with the loading. The 31 RQS has so much rear storage you may be tempted to put too much in the rear. I know I do.







I try and make sure to put some up front, which has a lot of storage as well.

The Suburbans' no longer come with an 8.1L (stopped in 2006) so you will have to get a used TV, but I know on ebay there are quite a few for sale. They go FAST (speed and sales!), so be ready if that is what you want.

Good luck and have fun with the TT.









azthroop


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## Heather821 (Mar 23, 2007)

We have a 31rqs and had problems with sway originally. First I noticed is we had too much weight stored in the front. We also had the tires swapped with Goodyears due to the Milestar recall. I also just installed the Reese Dual Cam set up sway control and it is well worth the money. If you get to try some of these things I think you will be much happier.


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